Discussion of things related only to the 8 year old accused of murder.

[Its just me]

This thread has been started to discuss our opinions and things related to the child accused of murder. I think it will help keep the discussions on one topic.

I'm not aware of any rule that does not allow this to be done but if there are I'm asking the admin/mod to consider allowing the thread to stay. If it needs to be deleted I understand having to obey the rules and please accept my apology for not knowing them. fep

[William Anthony]

Originally Posted by Its just me

This thread has been started to discuss our opinions and things related to the child accused of murder. I think it will help keep the discussions on one topic.

I'm not aware of any rule that does not allow this to be done but if there are I'm asking the admin/mod to consider allowing the thread to stay. If it needs to be deleted I understand having to obey the rules and please accept my apology for not knowing them. fep

Please, do not take offense as none is intended. I think sometimes I have studied law too long. I do believe I understand what you are trying to say and this concerns me only in how it is stated, "and things related to the child accused of murder." If I understand you correctly, you mean things related to the child prior to the shootings, and the effect of LE's treatment on the child and what effect that may have on the child and not the crime for which the child has been arrested, correct?

[Its just me]

This thread is for things related to the 8 year old boy accused of murder. We are each different...it is left up to each of you what is posted if you choose to post on this thread but it needs to be related just to the boy. MHOO is from birth to the present but I'm not sure what Joseph's opinion is and that is important because this idea came from him....Hopefully he will have a post soon. MHOO is the other thread is for things related to the case. fep

[William Anthony]

Originally Posted by Its just me

This thread is for things related to the 8 year old boy accused of murder. We are each different...it is left up to each of you what is posted if you choose to post on this thread but it needs to be related just to the boy. MHOO is from birth to the present but I'm not sure what Joseph's opinion is and that is important because this idea came from him....Hopefully he will have a post soon. MHOO is the other thread is for things related to the case. fep

Thanks for the clarification. I do see that there will be some overlapping. For instance, the issue of the child being given a riffle and taught how to use it at such a tender age, if that was, in fact, the case. I thought that was what you meant but did not want to be so presumptuous as to try to speak for you.

[tr7fan]

http://www.azcentral.com/video/?type...oID=1025059515

latest video looks like the documents have been out awhile watching the defense councils video they act upbeat
some of this is shows reports from st johns police so what can i say

[William Anthony]

Originally Posted by tr7fan

http://www.azcentral.com/video/?type...oID=1025059515

latest video looks like the documents have been out awhile watching the defense councils video they act upbeat
some of this is shows reports from st johns police so what can i say

That is a disturbing video clip. I know that, if I had told my parent(s) I was going to kill them, I would have needed dental work. If those statements are true, then that child had some very serious emotional/mental problems and the cause of them needs to be looked into, imho. I don't know what stage child psychology was in when I went to elementary school. I seem to remember the only professional, other than a teacher on staff, was a nurse. In any event, in my mind this child got off easy with a slap, if that was all that was done, when he told his father he would kill him. I remember when my hormones were raging and I talked back to my father. He told me that he brought me into this world and he would take me out. I had no reason not to believe him and adjusted my behavior to account for that fact. To be forewarned is to be forearmed.

[Its just me]

Originally Posted by William Anthony

That is a disturbing video clip. I know that, if I had told my parent(s) I was going to kill them, I would have needed dental work. If those statements are true, then that child had some very serious emotional/mental problems and the cause of them needs to be looked into, imho. I don't know what stage child psychology was in when I went to elementary school. I seem to remember the only professional, other than a teacher on staff, was a nurse. In any event, in my mind this child got off easy with a slap, if that was all that was done, when he told his father he would kill him. I remember when my hormones were raging and I talked back to my father. He told me that he brought me into this world and he would take me out. I had no reason not to believe him and adjusted my behavior to account for that fact. To be forewarned is to be forearmed.

Without knowing more details I think it takes a narror mind to think the slap was justified. Do you not think it strange that guns were everywhere after the child told the dad he would kill him. At this point there are some signs of abuse....the grandmothers remark they were too hard on the child and the childs bloody underwear found by the family friends cleaning the house. How you were raised don't have poop to do with how this child was raised or what was behind the slap. IMHOO Only time and more information will show the real story. fep

ETA: It's also distrubing that if CR has such mental and emotional problems he is has been released to be with his mother.
Sincere Prayers for all involved. fep

[FDInLaw]

From the link. . .
"found a little boy's underwear with blood stains. . . " (not a direct quote)



I'm having a hard time feeling for these men. Why the "H" did no one step in and help this little guy? After seeing that, I have a feeling that a deal is being worked out right now.

[Its just me]

Originally Posted by FDInLaw

From the link. . .
"found a little boy's underwear with blood stains. . . " (not a direct quote)



I'm having a hard time feeling for these men. Why the "H" did no one step in and help this little guy? After seeing that, I have a feeling that a deal is being worked out right now.

ITA.

I remember the grandpa not wanting CR to be questioned again by LE but asked it be done by a professional (can’t remember what term he used) and the grandmother started to say more and the grandpa told her to go ahead and tell but there was nothing in the report that she did. All very distrubing. fep

[FDInLaw]

Originally Posted by Its just me

ITA.

I remember the grandpa not wanting CR to be questioned again by LE but asked it be done by a professional (can’t remember what term he used) and the grandmother started to say more and the grandpa told her to go ahead and tell but there was nothing in the report that she did. All very distrubing. fep

The claim that CR tried to drowned another is extremely disturbing and needs to be checked out thoroughly. I'm not certain that letting the boy live with his Mom is the best option now. Very scary! This poor boy needs some serious counseling and a stable environment that does not endanger other children. I'm not sure how that can be done. Juvie is not the answer here.

[William Anthony]

Originally Posted by Its just me

Without knowing more details I think it takes a narror mind to think the slap was justified. Do you not think it strange that guns were everywhere after the child told the dad he would kill him. At this point there are some signs of abuse....the grandmothers remark they were too hard on the child and the childs bloody underwear found by the family friends cleaning the house. How you were raised don't have poop to do with how this child was raised or what was behind the slap. IMHOO Only time and more information will show the real story. fep

ETA: It's also distrubing that if CR has such mental and emotional problems he is has been released to be with his mother.
Sincere Prayers for all involved. fep

How I was raised and you were raised as with anyone else has to do with the basis on which we form opinions. You recently agreed with the article I supplied by Dr. Keith. That is simply a restatement of that article, meaning environmental plus other factors play a role in a child's conduct. Did you forget this portion of my post, "If those statements are true, then that child had some very serious emotional/mental problems and the cause of them needs to be looked into, imho." The fact that blood was found in underwear, without knowing more, does not automatically equate to abuse. I have not said that the slap was justified. I said the child got off easily. It would take a narrow mind not to consider that there was something wrong with a child, who allegedly repeated a desire to kill his parent. However, the slap, in my opinion, was the least that I would have done to a child of mine that said that to me and I would be willing to bet that there are others, who feel the way I do.

[William Anthony]

Originally Posted by FDInLaw

The claim that CR tried to drowned another is extremely disturbing and needs to be checked out thoroughly. I'm not certain that letting the boy live with his Mom is the best option now. Very scary! This poor boy needs some serious counseling and a stable environment that does not endanger other children. I'm not sure how that can be done. Juvie is not the answer here.

According to my understanding, the grandfather wanted a psychologist present. ITA.

[FDInLaw]

Originally Posted by William Anthony

How I was raised and you were raised as with anyone else has to do with the basis on which we form opinions. You recently agreed with the article I supplied by Dr. Keith. That is simply a restatement of that article, meaning environmental plus other factors play a role in a child's conduct. Did you forget this portion of my post, "If those statements are true, then that child had some very serious emotional/mental problems and the cause of them needs to be looked into, imho." The fact that blood was found in underwear, without knowing more, does not automatically equate to abuse. I have not said that the slap was justified. I said the child got off easily. It would take a narrow mind not to consider that there was something wrong with a child, who allegedly repeated a desire to kill his parent. However, the slap, in my opinion, was the least that I would have done to a child of mine that said that to me and I would be willing to bet that there are others, who feel the way I do.

If CR did make the treats to kill his Dad, why in tarnation did the father buy his son a gun? Why were firearms and ammo left within reach??? A real head-shaker. No one took this child seriously. Why was he in the Father's custody???

[William Anthony]

Originally Posted by FDInLaw

If CR did make the treats to kill his Dad, why in tarnation did the father buy his son a gun? Why were firearms and ammo left within reach??? A real head-shaker. No one took this child seriously. Why was he in the Father's custody???

The father did not buy the gun, according to my understanding. He gave it to him as a present. We do not know the time frame in which the threats were made. This is what I meant by a slap. I think that would tell the boy that he was not to say that again. I think some sterner action would have let the boy know that he was not to think it again. Yes, I agree this case is a travesty. I said long ago that this child might have been failed by society and his family members. Now, it seems that Mr. Romero may have failed himself by not taking the child seriously. I would like to know the circumstances to have caused the boy to make the threat, if he did.

[FDInLaw]

Originally Posted by William Anthony

The father did not buy the gun, according to my understanding. He gave it to him as a present. We do not know the time frame in which the threats were made. This is what I meant by a slap. I think that would tell the boy that he was not to say that again. I think some sterner action would have let the boy know that he was not to think it again. Yes, I agree this case is a travesty. I said long ago that this child might have been failed by society and his family members. Now, it seems that Mr. Romero may have failed himself by not taking the child seriously. I would like to know the circumstances to have caused the boy to make the threat, if he did.

You've summed this case in a nutshell.

The article you posted comes to mind over and over again. The environment this child was in cannot be ignored, but it seems that some want this child to be some sort of anomaly, a demon in his own right and of his own doing (or so I've read other places). The news of Vince and Tim not being “perfect” is no surprise. . . the details are heartbreaking though.

[William Anthony]

Originally Posted by FDInLaw

You've summed this case in a nutshell.

The article you posted comes to mind over and over again. The environment this child was in cannot be ignored, but it seems that some want this child to be some sort of anomaly, a demon in his own right and of his own doing (or so I've read other places). The news of Vince and Tim not being “perfect” is no surprise. . . the details are heartbreaking though.

I would that it was true but I think there is more to come, which might allow us to change our opinions.

[goodguy]

to prevent children from shooting people and pets no one under the age of 18should be allowed to have access to a fire arm. then try them as adults if they miss use a firearm... use some common sense.

[goodguy]

[quote=goodguy;9171594]to prevent children from shooting people and pets no one under the age of 18should be allowed to have access to a fire arm. then try them as adults if they miss use a firearm... use some common sense

treat kids as what they are .

[Jadedblueeyes]

Originally Posted by William Anthony

The father did not buy the gun, according to my understanding. He gave it to him as a present. We do not know the time frame in which the threats were made. This is what I meant by a slap. I think that would tell the boy that he was not to say that again. I think some sterner action would have let the boy know that he was not to think it again. Yes, I agree this case is a travesty. I said long ago that this child might have been failed by society and his family members. Now, it seems that Mr. Romero may have failed himself by not taking the child seriously. I would like to know the circumstances to have caused the boy to make the threat, if he did.

Yes, Vincent had this gun ever since he was this boy's age and he was 29 years old when he was murdered. It shows it is the mindset of the person that makes any weapon, a weapon to be used against human beings. That was the difference in this boy and his own father. His father respected the gun and never harmed another human being with it.

This boy had told another boy he went to school with that he was going to kill his father. Iirc that was about 3 weeks before VR's death. I highly doubt he ever knew about that threat though. He made another threat and this time it was to his father in a recent hunting trip with family members shortly before his death.

I do not hold it against Vinnie for slapping the child, even though I don't believe in slapping my own but I cannot sit here and say with certainty what I would do if my child came right up in my face and told me they were going to kill me. I really don't think anyone would know how each individual person would react to that, if it were to happen to them. I am sure Vinnie was horrified, shocked and, embarrassed that his son was capable of saying something so vile, and I am sure it made him very angry too.

I did notice when I read the DPS Report I, that witness after witness stated they saw no abuse. Witness after witness talked about what a nice person Vinnie was and how he loved his son. Some did find the boy to be cocky, manipulative or arrogant and some of the kids said he bullied his younger relatives. A Mr. Aneslmo Padilla and his family where also interviewed by LE. Aneslmo said that this boy was "a spoiled child who got everything he wanted." Not one witness in the report said this boy was abused.

I don't think Romero is at fault for not taking his son seriously. I am not sure any parent who has raised their child from birth, can wrap their minds around their own young child being serious about murdering them. I think Vinnie was like most parents who thought it was an immature outburst and would blow over.

If anyone failed this child it was Eryn, his mother, imo. She was never a nurturing mother figure to him, when it was so vital to have a mother's love. Her abandonment created this boy into being removed, aloof and detached from others. He learned imo, to care about no one but himself. Vinnie Romero never abandoned this child, he fought for him and he cared about him. It just did not stick. No matter how much love this boy was given, it just didn't sink in. IMOO, long ago he had learned if a mother doesn't love you then no one will, and he shutdown his feelings for everyone. He may have manipulated them for personal gain under the false pretense he "loved" them but IMO he didnt...he couldn't because he just doesn't feel the connection or bond inside of him, IMO.

When we look at many murderers we will see they have deep seeded issues concerning their mothers. It warps their thinking.

Now of course this is just my opinion of the boy and nothing more.

And if he has no conscience then all the treatment in the world is not going to change him.

Also in the DPS Report the bus driver Ms. Haws said that the boy got off the bus around 2:30 pm. She also said that one of her co-workers was at the boy's grandmother's house after the murders and heard the boy tell his g/m that he first killed his father and then he told Tim to come inside and then killed him.

I have always said this boy has wanted people to know he did this.

imoo

[Jadedblueeyes]

The never ending trail of tears and shattered lives.

http://www.wmicentral.com/site/news....d=505965&rfi=6

Wife of slain man in serious accident


The wife of the man allegedly shot to death by his 8-year-old son in St. Johns was involved in a single-vehicle accident late Friday or early Saturday morning.


The woman was driving towards Witch Wells when she said she swerved to avoid "eyes" on the road and lost control of her Jeep. It is believed the "eyes" belonged to an animal on the road.
She is in a Flagstaff hospital with serious injuries. Reports indicate that most of her ribs were broken and she is paralyzed from the chest down.

[tr7fan]

Originally Posted by William Anthony

That is a disturbing video clip. I know that, if I had told my parent(s) I was going to kill them, I would have needed dental work. If those statements are true, then that child had some very serious emotional/mental problems and the cause of them needs to be looked into, imho. I don't know what stage child psychology was in when I went to elementary school. I seem to remember the only professional, other than a teacher on staff, was a nurse. In any event, in my mind this child got off easy with a slap, if that was all that was done, when he told his father he would kill him. I remember when my hormones were raging and I talked back to my father. He told me that he brought me into this world and he would take me out. I had no reason not to believe him and adjusted my behavior to account for that fact. To be forewarned is to be forearmed.

yes it was actually never admitted the probablecause hearing even though the prosecutor tryed twice the whole interveiw was cooerced by a det who lied under oath as to her qualifications and was found out by the judge
and another "jail commander who in the past had failed to deliver 22 subpeonas in a court case
sorry i havent been around much but the low down is this "they have no evidence to connect him but he has plea guilty to one count of negligent homidide so he would be on probation till adluthhood and so he could be with his mom hes been on :Furolough since about the end of january and has even been on a trip out of town with his mother and reletives recently
there have been no problems or incidents. my opinon it was a hit
on the boarder who was a coworker and meth dealer and toold his street dealers someone wanted to kill him and that they did on 11/5/08 the kid is the fall guy on this one somewhere out there is/are the real murder(*s) that date about the beginning of the furlough is an estimate i need to look up the exact date.

[tr7fan]

Originally Posted by William Anthony

According to my understanding, the grandfather wanted a psychologist present. ITA.

a parent the grandpa anyone but this was forbiddden by the sjpd
they avilla and neckle both told benjamin brewer in their depositions that they
had been trianed to lie in order to elicit a confession
http://www.abc15.com/content/news/no...fjGKMLrYg.cspx
i wouldnt worry about him as a threat. i almost invited his mom and him to staty here but i had hunting rifles so that disqualifed me .
i wouldnt feel threatened having them here
the judge has let him out on furlough since the end of jan i think hes got a good view as to what his next 9 years with be with periodic tests ant 9 12 15 and 17 1/2. what the kid needs is to be with his mom and relatives and counseling for what hes seen . its just my opnion but i think there were two shoters one held cr upstairs and had him call tim they shot tim first at the end of the driveway and died on the porch i have no explanation as to why he keep going toward the shooter. there was a situation with a detention officer just before cr was released that resulted in the officer being suspended. in my opnion this man would be a good place to start an investigation even tho no one seems at all intersted. if it was me he would have been arrested cuffed and taken to an interview room for a discussion
hopefully there will be an internal investigation into this officers actions.
ive tried to figure out what a penalty would be should he be charged and the best i could figure was it could be anywhere from a high misdeamonor to a class 2-3 felony. in arizona class 1 felong is the highest class6 is the lowest and his actions border on a class 6 felony in my opnion . ya got to admire the kid for his bravery, he told his grandma who told the sheriff after she
was done with her visit . i think bottom line this was a professional hit staged to look like a burglary. most burglars dont shoot they run
sentencing wont be for about 2 months after more evlauations
apparenlty hes had no probs while on "furlough authorized by judge roca who said "the boy and his mother are off limits " apparently what he sez holds great weight as most of the static has been postes in the comment section of articles on him. please pray for him and his family

[tr7fan]

Originally Posted by FDInLaw

If CR did make the treats to kill his Dad, why in tarnation did the father buy his son a gun? Why were firearms and ammo left within reach??? A real head-shaker. No one took this child seriously. Why was he in the Father's custody???

cr was born when his mom was about 19 or so and then she filed for divorce about a year later. hes got a half sister in tucson from another relationship of vincent . they explined they had shared custody with vincent having physical custody. just what that means confuses me. she remaaried had a daughter and tried to visit cr as much as she could being in misssissippi
" i was told that the judge that decided custody was related to him but have no way to confirm that . vincent was a construction worker and gone alot
i dont know how long hed been working on this job.
i think it should be kept in mind that kids and even adults say off the wall stuff when theyre mad. im not saying its right just that it happens. also there is sdome credence to the saying "its the quiet ones ya gotta watch"
referring to the fact that people who shoot there mouth of release tension if they hold it in it builds the probation agreement allows them to leave the county and the state so i hope they will move somewhere only her family knows where theyre at TR i can be contacted at tr7fan @yahoo.com have a good weekend
no it was the the smartest thing to leave guns laying around but he was the one that usually put them back in there places

[William Anthony]

Originally Posted by Jadedblueeyes

Yes, Vincent had this gun ever since he was this boy's age and he was 29 years old when he was murdered. It shows it is the mindset of the person that makes any weapon, a weapon to be used against human beings. That was the difference in this boy and his own father. His father respected the gun and never harmed another human being with it.

This boy had told another boy he went to school with that he was going to kill his father. Iirc that was about 3 weeks before VR's death. I highly doubt he ever knew about that threat though. He made another threat and this time it was to his father in a recent hunting trip with family members shortly before his death.

I do not hold it against Vinnie for slapping the child, even though I don't believe in slapping my own but I cannot sit here and say with certainty what I would do if my child came right up in my face and told me they were going to kill me. I really don't think anyone would know how each individual person would react to that, if it were to happen to them. I am sure Vinnie was horrified, shocked and, embarrassed that his son was capable of saying something so vile, and I am sure it made him very angry too.

I did notice when I read the DPS Report I, that witness after witness stated they saw no abuse. Witness after witness talked about what a nice person Vinnie was and how he loved his son. Some did find the boy to be cocky, manipulative or arrogant and some of the kids said he bullied his younger relatives. A Mr. Aneslmo Padilla and his family where also interviewed by LE. Aneslmo said that this boy was "a spoiled child who got everything he wanted." Not one witness in the report said this boy was abused.

I don't think Romero is at fault for not taking his son seriously. I am not sure any parent who has raised their child from birth, can wrap their minds around their own young child being serious about murdering them. I think Vinnie was like most parents who thought it was an immature outburst and would blow over.

If anyone failed this child it was Eryn, his mother, imo. She was never a nurturing mother figure to him, when it was so vital to have a mother's love. Her abandonment created this boy into being removed, aloof and detached from others. He learned imo, to care about no one but himself. Vinnie Romero never abandoned this child, he fought for him and he cared about him. It just did not stick. No matter how much love this boy was given, it just didn't sink in. IMOO, long ago he had learned if a mother doesn't love you then no one will, and he shutdown his feelings for everyone. He may have manipulated them for personal gain under the false pretense he "loved" them but IMO he didnt...he couldn't because he just doesn't feel the connection or bond inside of him, IMO.

When we look at many murderers we will see they have deep seeded issues concerning their mothers. It warps their thinking.

Now of course this is just my opinion of the boy and nothing more.

And if he has no conscience then all the treatment in the world is not going to change him.

Also in the DPS Report the bus driver Ms. Haws said that the boy got off the bus around 2:30 pm. She also said that one of her co-workers was at the boy's grandmother's house after the murders and heard the boy tell his g/m that he first killed his father and then he told Tim to come inside and then killed him.

I have always said this boy has wanted people to know he did this.

imoo

I was raised during the time when spanking was not considered abuse and most adults, neighbors and teachers, had the right to spank an unruly child. I do recall my father beating a neighbor who struck me with a rake but that was not the normal. Usually, if the adult felt the need to spank you they would call your parents or take you to them and explain why, which resulted in another more severe spanking from your parents. We were taught to respect adults and, if we did that, we had a chance to explain what happened to our parents. We lost that chance, if we disrespected the adults. It was much easier to say yes sir or mam and then explain to your parents what had happened. I would never have told any adult that I would kill them and, if I had, I am sure my parents would realize, I needed help. I was often reminded by my parents when I got to big for my britches that they brought me in and would take me out. I think the system as a whole failed this child.

[William Anthony]

Originally Posted by tr7fan

a parent the grandpa anyone but this was forbiddden by the sjpd
they avilla and neckle both told benjamin brewer in their depositions that they
had been trianed to lie in order to elicit a confession
http://www.abc15.com/content/news/no...fjGKMLrYg.cspx
i wouldnt worry about him as a threat. i almost invited his mom and him to staty here but i had hunting rifles so that disqualifed me .
i wouldnt feel threatened having them here
the judge has let him out on furlough since the end of jan i think hes got a good view as to what his next 9 years with be with periodic tests ant 9 12 15 and 17 1/2. what the kid needs is to be with his mom and relatives and counseling for what hes seen . its just my opnion but i think there were two shoters one held cr upstairs and had him call tim they shot tim first at the end of the driveway and died on the porch i have no explanation as to why he keep going toward the shooter. there was a situation with a detention officer just before cr was released that resulted in the officer being suspended. in my opnion this man would be a good place to start an investigation even tho no one seems at all intersted. if it was me he would have been arrested cuffed and taken to an interview room for a discussion
hopefully there will be an internal investigation into this officers actions.
ive tried to figure out what a penalty would be should he be charged and the best i could figure was it could be anywhere from a high misdeamonor to a class 2-3 felony. in arizona class 1 felong is the highest class6 is the lowest and his actions border on a class 6 felony in my opnion . ya got to admire the kid for his bravery, he told his grandma who told the sheriff after she
was done with her visit . i think bottom line this was a professional hit staged to look like a burglary. most burglars dont shoot they run
sentencing wont be for about 2 months after more evlauations
apparenlty hes had no probs while on "furlough authorized by judge roca who said "the boy and his mother are off limits " apparently what he sez holds great weight as most of the static has been postes in the comment section of articles on him. please pray for him and his family

I think that prayers are in line for the families of all those involved as well as for the child. I cannot fathom a defense attorney allowing a child to plead guilty to negligent homicide, if he thought there was a chance that this child was innocent but I may be wrong.

[Jadedblueeyes]

Originally Posted by tr7fan

a parent the grandpa anyone but this was forbidden by the sjpd
they avilla and neckle both told benjamin brewer in their depositions that they
had been trianed to lie in order to elicit a confession
http://www.abc15.com/content/news/no...fjGKMLrYg.cspx
i wouldnt worry about him as a threat. i almost invited his mom and him to staty here but i had hunting rifles so that disqualifed me .
i wouldnt feel threatened having them here
the judge has let him out on furlough since the end of jan i think hes got a good view as to what his next 9 years with be with periodic tests ant 9 12 15 and 17 1/2. what the kid needs is to be with his mom and relatives and counseling for what hes seen . its just my opnion but i think there were two shoters one held cr upstairs and had him call tim they shot tim first at the end of the driveway and died on the porch i have no explanation as to why he keep going toward the shooter. there was a situation with a detention officer just before cr was released that resulted in the officer being suspended. in my opinion this man would be a good place to start an investigation even tho no one seems at all untested. if it was me he would have been arrested cuffed and taken to an interview room for a discussion
hopefully there will be an internal investigation into this officers actions.
ive tried to figure out what a penalty would be should he be charged and the best i could figure was it could be anywhere from a high misdeamonor to a class 2-3 felony. in arizona class 1 felong is the highest class6 is the lowest and his actions border on a class 6 felony in my opinion . ya got to admire the kid for his bravery, he told his grandma who told the sheriff after she
was done with her visit . i think bottom line this was a professional hit staged to look like a burglary. most burglars don't shoot they run
sentencing wont be for about 2 months after more evlauations
apparenlty hes had no probs while on "furlough authorized by judge roca who said "the boy and his mother are off limits " apparently what he sez holds great weight as most of the static has been postes in the comment section of articles on him. please pray for him and his family

In the court papers it mentioned that other rules were also in place concerning being out. I don't think this boy has a chance to be anything but good, whether he or his mother likes it or not. The Court even has to be notified of which family member is going to visit him and when. I think the Court is keeping close watch on him. Sounds more like a very tight conditional release to me.

I don't dismiss his threats to murder his father as mere coincidences. One was just on a recent hunting trip. No son who fears his father's wrath would ever poke the fire. A child fearful of his father had his father really been abusive wouldnt dare keep lying to his face all the time knowing it would make things worse for the child. Children who are abused seem to be very complacent and want to be seen as little as possible. They do everything they can NOT to get on the father's bad side and coming right up to his father and threatening to murder him, ain't a way to do that, whatsoever.

Imo, this boy is guilty of these murders. IMO, the time line proves it. There is no other logical, reasonable, explanation how all of this occurred in the time it did. He had no alibi for over 2 hours and imo why he didn't was because he was waiting inside his home for his dad to return from work. All the cell phone time lines shows that there was only time for HIM to kill the two men in separate events, put the gun on the cage, let Nellie out, pat her on the head and walk to the neighbor's house and 911 be already called and over with by 5:03 pm

I am sure the townsfolk of St. John will be very relieved if this boy and his mom does go elsewhere so they can have some kind of normalcy in their town again.

This boy took this sweetheart deal because he isn't stupid and he knows he did this. He got a much lesser degree for the premeditated murder of Tim Romans but the biggest prize of all for him was he did not want to risk being charged and tried with murdering his own father when he became an adult, where the punishment could be up to LWOP. No other defendant would have been given such a sweet deal but then 99.9% of murder defendants aren't 8 years old when they commit murder either. So he and his attorney used his age as an advantage and it worked, as long as he can keep his nose squeaky clean for the next 9 years because IF NOT then Judge Roca told him they are back to "square one."

He is still charged and plead guilty to a class 4 felony.

imo

[Jadedblueeyes]

Originally Posted by William Anthony

I think that prayers are in line for the families of all those involved as well as for the child. I cannot fathom a defense attorney allowing a child to plead guilty to negligent homicide, if he thought there was a chance that this child was innocent but I may be wrong.

I think you are right. We have seen attorneys fight for years and years if they truly thinks the evidence shows their client is innocent. There is no way that these attorneys, who have been in this boy's corner from day one, would suddenly jump ship. Wood would have been the hero of the day and probably selected as one of the top 10 attorneys in AZ if he had the goods to prove this case. It is cases like this that defense attorneys yearn for....Many times one high publicity case can put them on top.

Even Wood admitted that the boy had talked with him about his involvement. Frankly, I think this boy has told several that he did this and how it went down.

imo

[tr7fan]

Originally Posted by William Anthony

That is a disturbing video clip. I know that, if I had told my parent(s) I was going to kill them, I would have needed dental work. If those statements are true, then that child had some very serious emotional/mental problems and the cause of them needs to be looked into, imho. I don't know what stage child psychology was in when I went to elementary school. I seem to remember the only professional, other than a teacher on staff, was a nurse. In any event, in my mind this child got off easy with a slap, if that was all that was done, when he told his father he would kill him. I remember when my hormones were raging and I talked back to my father. He told me that he brought me into this world and he would take me out. I had no reason not to believe him and adjusted my behavior to account for that fact. To be forewarned is to be forearmed.

yes it was actually never admitted the probablecause hearing even though the prosecutor tryed twice the whole interveiw was cooerced by a det who lied under oath as to her qualifications and was found out by the judge
and another "jail commander who in the past had failed to deliver 22 subpeonas in a court case
sorry i havent been around much but the low down is this "they have no evidence to connect him but he has plea guilty to one count of negligent homidide so he would be on probation till adluthhood and so he could be with his mom hes been on :Furolough since about the end of january and has even been on a trip out of town with his mother and reletives recently
there have been no problems or incidents. my opinon it was a hit
on the boarder who was a coworker and meth dealer and toold his street dealers someone wanted to kill him and that they did on 11/5/08 the kid is the fall guy on this one somewhere out there is/are the real murder(*s) that date about the beginning of the furlough is an estimate i need to look up the exact date.
__________________
"the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." "imoo"

[tr7fan]

Originally Posted by Jadedblueeyes

In the court papers it mentioned that other rules were also in place concerning being out. I don't think this boy has a chance to be anything but good, whether he or his mother likes it or not. The Court even has to be notified of which family member is going to visit him and when. I think the Court is keeping close watch on him. Sounds more like a very tight conditional release to me.

I don't dismiss his threats to murder his father as mere coincidences. One was just on a recent hunting trip. No son who fears his father's wrath would ever poke the fire. A child fearful of his father had his father really been abusive wouldnt dare keep lying to his face all the time knowing it would make things worse for the child. Children who are abused seem to be very complacent and want to be seen as little as possible. They do everything they can NOT to get on the father's bad side and coming right up to his father and threatening to murder him, ain't a way to do that, whatsoever.

Imo, this boy is guilty of these murders. IMO, the time line proves it. There is no other logical, reasonable, explanation how all of this occurred in the time it did. He had no alibi for over 2 hours and imo why he didn't was because he was waiting inside his home for his dad to return from work. All the cell phone time lines shows that there was only time for HIM to kill the two men in separate events, put the gun on the cage, let Nellie out, pat her on the head and walk to the neighbor's house and 911 be already called and over with by 5:03 pm

I am sure the townsfolk of St. John will be very relieved if this boy and his mom does go elsewhere so they can have some kind of normalcy in their town again.

This boy took this sweetheart deal because he isn't stupid and he knows he did this. He got a much lesser degree for the premeditated murder of Tim Romans but the biggest prize of all for him was he did not want to risk being charged and tried with murdering his own father when he became an adult, where the punishment could be up to LWOP. No other defendant would have been given such a sweet deal but then 99.9% of murder defendants aren't 8 years old when they commit murder either. So he and his attorney used his age as an advantage and it worked, as long as he can keep his nose squeaky clean for the next 9 years because IF NOT then Judge Roca told him they are back to "square one."

He is still charged and plead guilty to a class 4 felony.

imo

whateveer your entitled to your opinion id still welcome him into my home
my feelings on him and his mother remain the same
i wish they had taken it to trial I dont believe whatever so called evidence they may have would stand in the light of day. If they do have anything other than what theyve mentioned, it hasnt be filed or made public personally i hope that cr and him mom find a good lawyer who can sue the state city and county for the bs theyve pulled on them.
personally im enquring as to whether i can file complaints with AZpost the certifying authority in az for policeman and turning whitng and carlyohn into the state bar all there actions remind me of the gestapo not to mention whitings campaign promise not to prosecute innocent people carlyon pulled the same stuff in www.joelbarrsstory.com his tactics border on criminal as far as im concerned. the people of apache and navajo counties in az would be much better off without these to attornies in the positions they hold

[William Anthony]

Originally Posted by tr7fan

yes it was actually never admitted the probablecause hearing even though the prosecutor tryed twice the whole interveiw was cooerced by a det who lied under oath as to her qualifications and was found out by the judge
and another "jail commander who in the past had failed to deliver 22 subpeonas in a court case
sorry i havent been around much but the low down is this "they have no evidence to connect him but he has plea guilty to one count of negligent homidide so he would be on probation till adluthhood and so he could be with his mom hes been on :Furolough since about the end of january and has even been on a trip out of town with his mother and reletives recently
there have been no problems or incidents. my opinon it was a hit
on the boarder who was a coworker and meth dealer and toold his street dealers someone wanted to kill him and that they did on 11/5/08 the kid is the fall guy on this one somewhere out there is/are the real murder(*s) that date about the beginning of the furlough is an estimate i need to look up the exact date.
__________________
"the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." "imoo"

If there is no evidence, you don't accept the plea.

[tr7fan]

Originally Posted by Jadedblueeyes

In the court papers it mentioned that other rules were also in place concerning being out. I don't think this boy has a chance to be anything but good, whether he or his mother likes it or not. The Court even has to be notified of which family member is going to visit him and when. I think the Court is keeping close watch on him. Sounds more like a very tight conditional release to me.

I don't dismiss his threats to murder his father as mere coincidences. One was just on a recent hunting trip. No son who fears his father's wrath would ever poke the fire. A child fearful of his father had his father really been abusive wouldnt dare keep lying to his face all the time knowing it would make things worse for the child. Children who are abused seem to be very complacent and want to be seen as little as possible. They do everything they can NOT to get on the father's bad side and coming right up to his father and threatening to murder him, ain't a way to do that, whatsoever.

Imo, this boy is guilty of these murders. IMO, the time line proves it. There is no other logical, reasonable, explanation how all of this occurred in the time it did. He had no alibi for over 2 hours and imo why he didn't was because he was waiting inside his home for his dad to return from work. All the cell phone time lines shows that there was only time for HIM to kill the two men in separate events, put the gun on the cage, let Nellie out, pat her on the head and walk to the neighbor's house and 911 be already called and over with by 5:03 pm

I am sure the townsfolk of St. John will be very relieved if this boy and his mom does go elsewhere so they can have some kind of normalcy in their town again.

This boy took this sweetheart deal because he isn't stupid and he knows he did this. He got a much lesser degree for the premeditated murder of Tim Romans but the biggest prize of all for him was he did not want to risk being charged and tried with murdering his own father when he became an adult, where the punishment could be up to LWOP. No other defendant would have been given such a sweet deal but then 99.9% of murder defendants aren't 8 years old when they commit murder either. So he and his attorney used his age as an advantage and it worked, as long as he can keep his nose squeaky clean for the next 9 years because IF NOT then Judge Roca told him they are back to "square one."

He is still charged and plead guilty to a class 4 felony.

imo

ive been meaning to ask you about your signature its exactly the same as gentlebreeze on insession are you two related. anyway you seem to take particular almost eerie delight in getting down to each word of the plea agreement.
ive been looking for and when i find i will post. where ron wood explains why the plea agreement was taken. personally, i believe if the defense called the prosecutors hand there would be nothing tying this boy to the horrendous murders. i what theyve disclosed so far is all they got, that aint jack. you also fail to mention that tim romans told one of his low level street dealers someone wanted to kill him a week before it happened. this case is nothing more than a repeat of the michael crowe case or this professional crituque of the interview
http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blo...eRoberts/39742
it seems you take uncanny delight in the plight and fate of this boy
by your discussion of the many conditions of his probation.
i think a lot of people are not seeing the less obvious motive the of killing tim romans who the san carlos police have described as a low level drug dealer
and the fact he conveyed to a low level street dealer someone wanted to kill him a week before this happened. the autospy revealed that he had been shot 6 times compared to 4 for vincent romero
other motives could be related to the alleged relatiohship between tiffany and nicole who cried after she saw a note tiffany wrote vince and put in his lunchbox and asked a guy to buy her a box of bullets about a month before the killings. another possible motive involves tim romans relationship to misty from mickeys bar whose x boy friend was described as "psycho". so the kid shot his mouth off when he was angry at his dad alot of adults do the same thing. if the boy was as bad as portrayed hed have done something now as long as hes been with his mom. i read somewhere that eryn had moved to saint johns because of this so who knows if they will go some where else or not. st johns is a sleepy little town to kick back in thats for sure

[SaraSidle]

Originally Posted by tr7fan

cr was born when his mom was about 19 or so and then she filed for divorce about a year later. hes got a half sister in tucson from another relationship of vincent . they explined they had shared custody with vincent having physical custody. just what that means confuses me. she remaaried had a daughter and tried to visit cr as much as she could being in misssissippi
" i was told that the judge that decided custody was related to him but have no way to confirm that . vincent was a construction worker and gone alot
i dont know how long hed been working on this job.
i think it should be kept in mind that kids and even adults say off the wall stuff when theyre mad. im not saying its right just that it happens. also there is sdome credence to the saying "its the quiet ones ya gotta watch"
referring to the fact that people who shoot there mouth of release tension if they hold it in it builds the probation agreement allows them to leave the county and the state so i hope they will move somewhere only her family knows where theyre at TR i can be contacted at tr7fan @yahoo.com have a good weekend
no it was the the smartest thing to leave guns laying around but he was the one that usually put them back in there places

thanks for all the info TR.........sara

[SaraSidle]

Originally Posted by Jadedblueeyes

The never ending trail of tears and shattered lives.

http://www.wmicentral.com/site/news....d=505965&rfi=6

Wife of slain man in serious accident


The wife of the man allegedly shot to death by his 8-year-old son in St. Johns was involved in a single-vehicle accident late Friday or early Saturday morning.


The woman was driving towards Witch Wells when she said she swerved to avoid "eyes" on the road and lost control of her Jeep. It is believed the "eyes" belonged to an animal on the road.
She is in a Flagstaff hospital with serious injuries. Reports indicate that most of her ribs were broken and she is paralyzed from the chest down.

this is so bad. I feel sorry for this family........sara

[SaraSidle]

Originally Posted by William Anthony

I was raised during the time when spanking was not considered abuse and most adults, neighbors and teachers, had the right to spank an unruly child. I do recall my father beating a neighbor who struck me with a rake but that was not the normal. Usually, if the adult felt the need to spank you they would call your parents or take you to them and explain why, which resulted in another more severe spanking from your parents. We were taught to respect adults and, if we did that, we had a chance to explain what happened to our parents. We lost that chance, if we disrespected the adults. It was much easier to say yes sir or mam and then explain to your parents what had happened. I would never have told any adult that I would kill them and, if I had, I am sure my parents would realize, I needed help. I was often reminded by my parents when I got to big for my britches that they brought me in and would take me out. I think the system as a whole failed this child.

I remember that so well William and I do not think it even helped me a bit. Might have made me worse. I became more rebellious the old I became. sara

[SaraSidle]

Originally Posted by tr7fan

ive been meaning to ask you about your signature its exactly the same as gentlebreeze on insession are you two related. anyway you seem to take particular almost eerie delight in getting down to each word of the plea agreement.
ive been looking for and when i find i will post. where ron wood explains why the plea agreement was taken. personally, i believe if the defense called the prosecutors hand there would be nothing tying this boy to the horrendous murders. i what theyve disclosed so far is all they got, that aint jack. you also fail to mention that tim romans told one of his low level street dealers someone wanted to kill him a week before it happened. this case is nothing more than a repeat of the michael crowe case or this professional crituque of the interview
http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blo...eRoberts/39742
it seems you take uncanny delight in the plight and fate of this boy
by your discussion of the many conditions of his probation.
i think a lot of people are not seeing the less obvious motive the of killing tim romans who the san carlos police have described as a low level drug dealer
and the fact he conveyed to a low level street dealer someone wanted to kill him a week before this happened. the autospy revealed that he had been shot 6 times compared to 4 for vincent romero
other motives could be related to the alleged relatiohship between tiffany and nicole who cried after she saw a note tiffany wrote vince and put in his lunchbox and asked a guy to buy her a box of bullets about a month before the killings. another possible motive involves tim romans relationship to misty from mickeys bar whose x boy friend was described as "psycho". so the kid shot his mouth off when he was angry at his dad alot of adults do the same thing. if the boy was as bad as portrayed hed have done something now as long as hes been with his mom. i read somewhere that eryn had moved to saint johns because of this so who knows if they will go some where else or not. st johns is a sleepy little town to kick back in thats for sure

TR you have to just respect Jadedblueeyes for her posts. She is very talented and experienced. It really does not matter where any of us post.
I post at 4 sites. some same name and some not due to being bashed. IMO sara

[Jadedblueeyes]

Originally Posted by tr7fan

ive been meaning to ask you about your signature its exactly the same as gentlebreeze on insession are you two related. anyway you seem to take particular almost eerie delight in getting down to each word of the plea agreement.
ive been looking for and when i find i will post. where ron wood explains why the plea agreement was taken. personally, i believe if the defense called the prosecutors hand there would be nothing tying this boy to the horrendous murders. i what theyve disclosed so far is all they got, that aint jack. you also fail to mention that tim romans told one of his low level street dealers someone wanted to kill him a week before it happened. this case is nothing more than a repeat of the michael crowe case or this professional crituque of the interview
http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blo...eRoberts/39742
it seems you take uncanny delight in the plight and fate of this boy
by your discussion of the many conditions of his probation.
i think a lot of people are not seeing the less obvious motive the of killing tim romans who the san carlos police have described as a low level drug dealer
and the fact he conveyed to a low level street dealer someone wanted to kill him a week before this happened. the autospy revealed that he had been shot 6 times compared to 4 for vincent romero
other motives could be related to the alleged relationship between tiffany and nicole who cried after she saw a note tiffany wrote vince and put in his lunchbox and asked a guy to buy her a box of bullets about a month before the killings. another possible motive involves tim romans relationship to misty from mickeys bar whose x boy friend was described as "psycho". so the kid shot his mouth off when he was angry at his dad alot of adults do the same thing. if the boy was as bad as portrayed hed have done something now as long as hes been with his mom. i read somewhere that eryn had moved to saint johns because of this so who knows if they will go some where else or not. st johns is a sleepy little town to kick back in thats for sure

Yes, I am GentleBreeze on IS, tr7fan;9175485. I am also known as Oceanblueeyes on other sites. I never try to hide my identity so that is why I always use the same signature line wherever that may be.

I don't take any delight when murder victims lose their lives, so I am not sure what you are referring to about the "plea deal" because I have always felt once the bulk of the evidence came back in, the boy and his attorney would accept a plea deal and be very thankful that it was offered. So I haven't changed my position on that. Even though this was a new plea deal offered by Whiting..... months before Woods said he was going to wait and see what evidence they had against the boy before considering the plea. So he did wait and when it was revealed to them, they dealt.

We know that what has been revealed is not all they have. The corresponding page numbers do not add up to being the full investigation, only a small part of it. It is often the case when plea deal negotiations are on going, that prejudicial results are withheld because once the plea deal is finalized all the investigative records are sealed.

I don't think anyone has been hoodwinked in this case. Not the DA, not the Judge, investigators, forensic labs, defense attorneys or DPS state agency and certainly not this boy. Imo he is thanking his lucky stars that he was too young for juvenile detention, with the youngest one there being two years older than him and the others much older, and he sure was too young for adult containment. So age was his biggest benefactor.

I just do not believe that a low level drug dealer would have someone come all the way from San Carlos to shoot Tim Romans. Tim would have headed back to San Carlos because he only worked Monday thru Wednesday at the plant. No one in the drug business leaves $800 dollars behind when it would only take seconds to lift them from Vinnie and Tim's pockets. And I have never heard of a person involved in drugs using a pea shooter .22. They are more apt to carry large caliber weapons that are untraceable.

There is no time for the mean bad druggie to do this and then for the boy to stroll up the street (sight unseen) casually and then do all he said transpired after then. Tim told Tanya that Vinnie had just walked in the door and that was at 4:52 pm, within three minutes the boy was calling Tim to come inside. Tim never made it and the shots were frontal shots with the gunfire coming from the home, except for the close up shot which was fired at an angle into the top of Tim's head as he was down on the porch and already wounded. It just does not compute nor is it reasonable to believe that someone else was there when three minutes after Vinnie went inside the boy called out to Tim. Three minutes.

AND the boy said that TIM was already down when he first saw him, even though for some reason he yelled out for Tim when he was three houses away and these homes don't even sit right up close to each other. So if Tim was on the porch dead then the boy would see nothing but the truck sitting there from three houses away, yet he is yelling to Tim? Nope, doesn't make a lick of sense imo, just like he said he stayed by his dad's side for 30 minutes yet the neighbor saw him out in the yard with Nellie already, within 2 minutes after the witness heard the gunshots. So he is playing with Nellie while his dad's blood is pooling all around his head inside his home on the stairway and poor Tim is bleeding out too on the front porch? And then he WALKS off toward the neighbor boy's house?

I don't know about getting any box of bullets but I don't find that odd. It was hunting season and maybe the guy was going. No one has to sign anything when they buy bullets or shells. I have bought plenty before for my husband who is an avid hunter or if a friend of ours was going to buy his for the season then I have asked them to pick him up a box.

Again, I don't find it odd that Tim was shot 6 times. Vinnie was in more of a confined space in the stairwell, Tim was outside in the open and the shots were fired from a further distance. I think he shot them both as many times as he did until they each stopped quivering and shaking.

I am very saddened about the results of this case. When any murder victim is denied true justice, it is a sad day for our country imo, that was built on Justice for ALL. The judicial system also victimized Vinnie Romero and Tim who only got a poor semblance of justice. This case will always stick with me and I am haunted that true justice never really came for either of these men, who were heinously murdered when they came home from a long day's work.

But I do know that this had to be one of the most difficult cases that all the legal parties have had to encounter in their careers and they had a boy that started murdering people at age 8 and they really had no place that he would fit in detainment.

So, even though I grieve for the true victims, and know they deserved to live their lives as much as this boy does, I can only hope now that the psychiatrists can peel away the onion skin and find out why this boy is capable of such horrific acts and I pray they can successfully treat him, to better himself and to protect society as well.

My prayers will constantly be for the family members who's lives have been shattered forever. I pray that Tiffany improves and God will bless her. I believe HE will and she will grow stronger.

Although I do feel Tiffany was already shattered months ago way before her body was when the Jeep rolled over.

This case is nothing like Michael Crowe, imo. This boy was interviewed for only one hour not over the course of two grueling days.



imo

[William Anthony]

Originally Posted by SaraSidle

I remember that so well William and I do not think it even helped me a bit. Might have made me worse. I became more rebellious the old I became. sara

Once I was an adult, I resented unbridled authority and bullies. I don't know if you would call that rebellious. I resented those who lofted their power needlessly over others. However, I respected my elders and others and realized the importance of everyone's life. I respected the fact that we each have a role to play and there are rules as to how to perform the role. I respected that my parents were doing all they could to provide for me financially and to provide me with the skills to succeed in life. I respected them for it and for them to demand my respect or teach me respect was a small price to pay.

[Jadedblueeyes]

Originally Posted by William Anthony

Once I was an adult, I resented unbridled authority and bullies. I don't know if you would call that rebellious. I resented those who lofted their power needlessly over others. However, I respected my elders and others and realized the importance of everyone's life. I respected the fact that we each have a role to play and there are rules as to how to perform the role. I respected that my parents were doing all they could to provide for me financially and to provide me with the skills to succeed in life. I respected them for it and for them to demand my respect or teach me respect was a small price to pay.

I am from the South and most parents use to spank their children. Parents even today do this as a final reprimand if other types of discipline is not getting the child's attention.

The thing that is strange and quite comical at times is to hear children who are all grown up now and how they love sitting around telling stories of when they got their butts whipped for smoking, lying or starting a fire in the barn, etc.. They have a twinkle in their eyes and most say they know they deserved everyone of those spankings and then some.

There seems to be no resentment at all about being spanked but memories that brings a chuckle about all the antics they pulled when they were children growing up and got caught big time. lol

imo

[Its just me]

I have 2 sisters and had 4 brothers. One is deceased. We were spanked and also got a peach tree switch when needed. I spanked my two sons and gave them some of the peach tree switch also. My oldest son has 3 kids and they get spanked. They are great kids who love their Mom and Dad very much. I'm honored to have been raised by parents who loved me enough to discipline us and my kids told me basically the same thing. My grandkids love their parents and have the utmost respect for them. Not only did I and my sons get spanked at home but we would get a good one at school if we needed it and so did the rest of the kids at school. LOL it’s been known for a kid to get a spanking at home because they got a spanking at school.

No discipline is a major part of what is wrong with things today. I have zero tolerance of parents who are raising children and allow them to think anything is ok. Most parents who are concerned with how they raise their children have the least of problems no matter what form of discipline they choose. The discipline needs to be enough to correct a problem and I believe a spanking will fail the least. It's where the parent or parents are more concerned with their own personal lives to take the time that is necessary to raise children… to correct and guide the child with lots of love that is the problem today.

I don't know enough to know how CR was raised but something somewhere failed if this 8 year old murdered two grown men.

fep

[William Anthony]

Originally Posted by Jadedblueeyes

I am from the South and most parents use to spank their children. Parents even today do this as a final reprimand if other types of discipline is not getting the child's attention.

The thing that is strange and quite comical at times is to hear children who are all grown up now and how they love sitting around telling stories of when they got their butts whipped for smoking, lying or starting a fire in the barn, etc.. They have a twinkle in their eyes and most say they know they deserved everyone of those spankings and then some.

There seems to be no resentment at all about being spanked but memories that brings a chuckle about all the antics they pulled when they were children growing up and got caught big time. lol

imo

Yes, that is what I mean. I told one story where I got an undeserved spanking, meaning the reason my father spanked me was not my fault. He could not believe that a teacher had made some untoward remarks about my mother and I made some in return about the teacher's mother. I was sixteen at the time. He broke his belt on the basement rafters trying to make me cry. I resented him for this for a long time but in the months following I realized that, if I had not lied to him so often in the past, he would have believed me, which was proven on a job. After cursing me out in front of coworkers, because he believed the foremen who said I wasn't working, he found out the next day when one of them denied saying it that they were lying and apologized to me. Tears come to my eyes now but I can assure you I would take the spanking and the cursing just to hear his voice again. He loved me far more than I loved him and I loved him tremendously.