8-Year-Old Boy Arrested In Double-Homicide - Arizona

[odette]

Nov. 7, 2008

Boy may face murder charges in fatal shooting of father, boarder

An 8-year-old Arizona boy may face double-murder charges in the shooting death of his father and another man at the family residence, The Arizona Republic reported Friday on its Web site.

The child is being held in juvenile custody for a hearing scheduled for Friday afternoon in Apache County Justice Court.

St. John Police Chief Roy Melnick told the newspaper that officers arrived at the home in the rural community of St. John in eastern Arizona within minutes of the shooting on Wednesday. They found one of the victims deceased just outside the front door and another dead in an upstairs room.

• Article Continued

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27600105/

[odette]

Ariz. boy, 8, accused of killing 2, including dad

FLAGSTAFF, Ariz. (AP) — An 8-year-boy is accused of fatally shooting his father and another man in eastern Arizona.

St. Johns Police Chief Roy Melnick says the boy is charged with two counts of premeditated murder after the shootings Wednesday.

Killed were the boy's father, 29-year-old Vincent Romero, and 39-year-old Timothy Romans.

Melnick says police arrived at a home shortly after the shooting and found one victim just outside the front door. The other was found in an upstairs room.

Melnick says the boy initially denied involvement but later confessed.

St. Johns is a community of about 4,000 people more than 150 miles northeast of Phoenix.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i...qNNTAD94AF6F81

[odette]

8-year-old St. Johns boy arrested in 2 killings

FLAGSTAFF, Ariz. (AP) - In a case that has "shocked" and "saddened" a small, rural eastern Arizona community, an 8-year-old boy has been charged in the shooting deaths of his father and another man.

The boy faces two counts of premeditated murder in the deaths of his father, Vincent Romero, 29, and Timothy Romans, 39.

• Article Continued

http://www.kvoa.com/Global/story.asp?S=9314632

[odette]

Ariz. boy, 8, charged in double slaying

http://www.timesoftheinternet.com/17879.html

[One2Snoop]

OMG! 8 years old?!

[odette]

Priest: Slain dad had taught boy, 8, to use guns

. . . . .

This photograph taken Saturday Nov. 8, 2008 shows the house where Vincent Romero, 29, and Timothy Romans, 39, of San Carlos, Ariz were found fatally shot in St. Johns, Ariz. on Wednesday. Police in this small eastern Arizona community are looking into the possibility that an 8-year-old boy who is charged with killing his father and another man with a rifle had been abused, the police chief said Saturday. (AP Photo/Dana Felthauser)

ST. JOHNS, Ariz. (AP) — A man who police believe was shot and killed by his 8-year-old son had consulted a Roman Catholic priest about whether the boy should have a gun and had taught him how to use firearms, the clergyman said Sunday.

The Very Rev. John Paul Sauter said the father, Vincent Romero, 29, wanted his son to learn how to hunt, while the boy's stepmother, Tiffany, suggested he have a BB gun.

Police say the boy used a 22.-caliber rifle Wednesday to kill his father and another man, Timothy Romans, 39, of San Carlos.

Romero was an avid hunter who taught his son how to use a rifle to kill prairie dogs, said Sauter, of St. Johns Catholic Church.

"He wanted to make sure the kid wasn't afraid of guns, knew how to handle it," the priest said. "He was just too young. ... That child, I don't think he knows what he did, and it was brutal."

The boy, who faces two counts of premeditated murder, did not act on the spur of the moment, St. Johns Police Chief Roy Melnick said.

"I'm not accusing anybody of anything at this point," he said Saturday. "But we're certainly going to look at the abuse part of this. He's 8 years old. He just doesn't decide one day that he's going to shoot his father and shoot his father's friend for no reason. Something led up to this."

On Friday, a judge ordered a psychological evaluation of the boy. Under Arizona law, charges can be filed against anyone 8 or older.

The boy had no record of complaints with Arizona Child Protective Services, said Apache County Attorney Brad Carlyon.

"He had no record of any kind, not even a disciplinary record at school," he said. "He has never been in trouble before."

In a sign of the emotional and legal complexities of the case, police are pushing to have the boy tried as an adult even as they investigate possible abuse, Melnick said. If convicted as a minor, the boy could be sent to juvenile detention until he turns 18.

Police had responded to calls of domestic violence at the Romero home in the past, but authorities were searching records Saturday to determine when those calls were placed, Melnick said.

"We're going to use every avenue of the law that's available to us, but we're also looking at the human side," he said.

Melnick said officers arrived at Romero's home within minutes of the shooting Wednesday in St. Johns, which has a population of about 4,000 and is 170 miles northeast of Phoenix. They found one victim just outside the front door and the other dead in an upstairs room.

Romans had been renting a room at the Romero house, prosecutors said. Both men were employees of a construction company working at a power plant near St. Johns.

The boy went to a neighbor's house and said he "believed that his father was dead," Carlyon said.

Melnick said police got a confession, but the boy's attorney, Benjamin Brewer, said police overreached in questioning the boy without representation from a parent or attorney and did not advise him of his rights.

"They became very accusing early on in the interview," Brewer said. "Two officers with guns at their side, it's very scary for anybody, for sure an 8-year-old kid."

Prosecutors aren't sure where the case is headed, Carlyon said.

"There's a ton of factors to be considered and weighed, including the juvenile's age," he said. "The counterbalance against that, the acts that he apparently committed."

FBI statistics show instances of children younger than 11 committing homicides are very rare. According to recent FBI supplementary homicide reports, there were at least three such cases each year in 2003, 2004 and 2005; there were at least 15 in 2002. More recent statistics weren't available, nor were details of the cases.

Earlier this year in Arizona, prosecutors in Cochise County filed first-degree murder charges against a 12-year-old boy accused of killing his mother.

Romero had full custody of the child. The boy's biological mother visited St. Johns during the weekend from Mississippi and returned to Arizona after the shootings, Carlyon said.

Family members declined to speak on the record.

Brewer said the boy "seems to be in good spirits."

"He's scared," he said. "He's trying to be tough, but he's scared."

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i...qNNTAD94B3I7G0

[sharlock]

Oh how sad! I have to say I hate the way police in America are always in such a rush to charge a child as an adult. They are not adults and cannot fully comprehend what they have done. this child could be rehabilitated and helped but not if he is stuck in an adults prison- you may as well give him the death penalty it would be kinder. America has by far the highest number of children in adult prisons in the world. More than every other country put together. Americans should really take issue with this and pressure the courts to stop this injustice.

[FDInLaw]

Heartbreaking!

[odette]

Two Are Killed, a Boy Is Charged and a Town Reels

ST. JOHNS, Ariz. (AP) — People in this small, tight-knit community are reeling from the killing of a well-liked man the police say was shot by his own 8-year-old son.

Residents are expected to turn out in droves for his funeral. “I don’t think this church is big enough to handle it all,” said the Very Rev. John Paul Sauter of St. John the Baptist Catholic Church.

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http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/10/us...=1&oref=slogin

[odette]

Ariz. town offers support for accused boy's family

ST. JOHNS - People in this small, tight-knit community are reeling from the killing of a well-liked man police say was shot by his 8-year-old son.

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http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...skillings.html

[odette]

Ariz. boy accused in slayings to appear in court

An 8-year-old boy is due in court two counts of premeditated murder as mourners prepare to remember his father.

The third-grader is due in court Monday, the same day as a funeral Mass is scheduled to be held for his dad at St. John the Baptist Catholic Church.

Police say the boy confessed to planning and carrying out the shooting deaths of 29-year-old Vincent Romero and a co-worker who rented a room from him. The men were found dead inside Romero's home northeast of Phoenix last week.

St. Johns police are hoping a judge will agree to try the boy as an adult but admit it's unlikely.

The boy's attorney says police questioned his client without representation from a parent or attorney and didn't advise the child of his rights.

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2008...pear-in-court/

[odette]

8-Year-Old Accused Of Dad's Slay In Court

Police Say Ariz. Boy Confessed To Shooting Deaths Of Father And His Co-Worker

(CBS/AP) Vincent Romero was no stranger to guns. The avid hunter reportedly asked his priest whether we should buy his young son a firearm.

Now his 8-year-old boy is due in court on two counts of premeditated murder.

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http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...=mostpop_story

[One2Snoop]

Gag Order Issued In 8-Year-Old's Murder Trial
Boy Charged With Killing Father, Friend

POSTED: 9:27 am EST November 10, 2008
UPDATED: 4:38 pm EST November 10, 2008

ST. JOHNS, Ariz. -- A defense attorney said a judge has issued a gag order in the case of an 8-year-old boy accused of killing his father and another man, KPHO-TV in Phoenix reported.

As a result, a planned police news briefing may not happen; however, the court hearing is still scheduled for 3 p.m.

Defense attorney Ron Wood said the order prevents police and attorneys from speaking publicly about the case.

St. Johns resident Vincent Romero and 39-year-old Tim Romans, who was renting a room at the house, were found dead Wednesday afternoon in Romero's home.

Less than 24 hours later, police announced they had solved the case, saying Romero's 8-year-old son confessed to shooting and killing the two men with a .22-caliber gun.

"We solved the crime," St. Johns Police Chief Roy Melnick said. "Now we have to solve the mystery of why."

On NBC's "Today" show Monday morning, Melnick said, "There's no record of any problems in school, no reported abuse."

Wood echoed Melnick's assertion that the boy does not appear to have been abused.

"At this point in time, we haven't seen anything indicating abuse," Wood said. "We haven't heard of anything; we're not aware of anything."

Brewer, who is the boy's other defense attorney, said the case will not be a slam-dunk for the prosecution.

"Their evidence is very minimal," Brewer said. "There was overreaching with police with regard to their contact with him ... I think there's a very good likelihood that there could have been improper interview techniques done."

Brewer also said the prosecution is "just guessing at this time" with regards to any physical evidence.

The boy will appear in court Monday, and his public defenders said they plan to file a motion to request experts to help with the investigation.

They said they will also ask for crime scene access.

Wood said the attorneys are treating the boy's case "like any other first-degree murder case."

"Our position is that our responsibility -- our duty -- is to take care of (him), whatever the allegations," Wood said. "He is an 8-year-old boy; he is a third-grader ... He's frightened."

Brewer agreed.

"It's evident that he's shaken up, and he's scared," he said. "He played football … he liked soccer. He was yanked out of the comfortable situation, a situation he knew about, and put into a situation that he has no knowledge about. He's hurting.

"He's a scared little kid."

Additionally, the attorneys said nobody has stepped forward to take custody of the boy.

"We've got an 8 year-old client who is sitting in a detention facility who needs someone to take him home, and we haven't found that person," Wood said. "The stepmother didn't want to take custody of him. His mother hasn't taken custody of him.

"At this point in time, no one has come forward and indicated they're willing to take (him)."

Also on Monday, more than 600 mourners gathered at funeral services to remember Romero.

According to people at the funeral, which lasted about an hour and a half, community members remembered how much Romero loved his son.

Attendees said very little about the boy, except that the whole situation was "shocking."

Funeral services for Romans, who is from San Carlos, Ariz., are scheduled for Saturday at 10 a.m. in San Carlos. A wake will be held Friday at 3 p.m.

http://www.wesh.com/news/17945933/detail.html

[odette]

Friends dispute abuse suspicions in Ariz. slaying

ST. JOHNS, Ariz. (AP) — Hundreds of mourners packed a funeral Monday for a man allegedly shot to death by his 8-year-old son, while friends and neighbors disputed any suggestion the boy had been abused by his father.

They painted a picture of Vincent Romero as a caring father who seemed to be doing all he could to raise a polite and respectful boy.

"They were always together doing things as a family, fishing, hunting," Carlos Diaz, a cousin of Romero's current wife, said after the funeral Mass at St. John the Baptist Catholic Church.

About 600 people filled the rural Arizona church in this town of about 4,000. People who could not get in crowded around an open door or sat on chairs set up outside. Romero, an avid hunter, was in a casket with a camouflage lid.

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http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i...qNNTAD94CBE7O0

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Prosecutors Say Boy Methodically Shot His Father

An 8-year-old Arizona boy charged with premeditated murder in the deaths of his father and another man shot each victim at least four times with a .22-caliber rifle, methodically stopping and reloading as he killed them, prosecutors said Monday.

Although investigators initially said they thought the boy might have suffered severe physical or sexual trauma, they have found no evidence of abuse, said Roy Melnick, the police chief in St. Johns, Ariz., where the shootings occurred. Psychologists say such abuse is often a factor in the extremely rare instances in which a small child murders a parent.

• Article Continued

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/11/us...us&oref=slogin

[sharlock]

Originally Posted by Joseph Bell

This is pretty bizarre, MBS. An 8 year old would know he was doing the wrong thing. But I guess the 1st thing that gets me about this is that an 8 year old would know how to load guns, stop and refire etc. That is scary. The 2nd thing is that no rels or anyone has come forward to look after the child. The kid's either been abused or he's whacko. And from what I'm reading the pros says there's no sign of abuse. So they say. And no-one's saying that he's not a normal 8 year old. Interesting case.

I couldn't imagine teaching my son to use a gun at that age, I still get nervous watching him carry a hot drink for Gods sake. I read in articles that family and freinds are saying they don't think there was any abuse, but I am not so sure and I don't know how they can be. Abuse happens behind closed doors not out in the open.

[odette]

Channel C: 8-Year-Old Faces Murder Charges

Today on Channel C, an 8-year-old boy has confessed to the murder of his father and another man. Is he too young to face murder charges?

The boy heads to court Monday after admitting that he killed his father, Vincent Romero, 29, and Timothy Romans, 39. Both men were found dead in Romero's home Wednesday of last week. Police said Thursday that the boy had confessed to shooting the two men with a .22-caliber weapon, although no motive was given.

Now the boy is facing murder charges, and his legal team says it's preparing as it would for any other first-degree murder case. But should it have to?

It's a tricky situation. Oftentimes, I feel that youth offenders should be tried as adults, but in most of those cases the youths in question are at least in their teens. Does an 8-year-old, who watches Ninja Turtles and is learning simple multiplication, really understand the ramifications of his actions? It's hard to say. Obviously some form of punishment is required, but until a motive is given it's simply too early to say. A real tragedy for all involved.

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http://orato.com/current-events/2008...murder-charges

[odette]

Originally Posted by Joseph Bell

You're absolutely correct. Abuse doesn't happen out in the open. The kid had a reason. What the reason was will take some trained professionals to work out. I still think it's sad for the kid that no-one's shown up for him. Where's his mother in all of this?

Hey JB .. small mention of the mother in this article.

The father had full custody of the 8-year-old boy. The boy's mother had visited St. Johns from Mississippi last weekend and returned to Arizona after the shootings on Wednesday, said Apache County Attorney Brad Carlyon.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...skillings.html

[odette]

Another mention of the mother here.

Mourners Dispute Abuse Suspicions in Arizona Man Fatally Shot by Son, 8

Excerpt: The boy appeared in handcuffs at a court hearing on Monday afternoon. Some people in the audience cried as he entered. The boy sat restlessly in his chair next to his mother during the hearing. The mother declined to comment to reporters as she left the courthouse.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,449786,00.html

[sharlock]

Originally Posted by Joseph Bell

Jeez MBS. The father had full custody and the kid blew him away! H'm. Dunno if Mum showing up is going to be a good thing. You know, some kids get it really tough don't they.

I find it difficult to deal with this concept of an 8 year old being charged with murder as though he was an adult. Obviously he isn't. I have read somewhere
in the US in the 30's I think a 13 year old being electrocuted for murder.
That's not going to happen here. The abuse will have to be looked into more thoroughly. The mother obviously isn't much chop. Something happened to make that kid snap.

Eww that sends shivers down my spine! The Step mum hasn't even tried to see him and her comments aren't about him at all but more things like "My husband was our sole provider, what are we going to do now?" Seems to me that a stepchild in that house probably couldn't have turned to his stepmum for help. The real Mum didn't turn up for the boy until days after, I am worried too but I pray she is there for him now for the right reasons.

[One2Snoop]

Yes I think there's definitely something wrong here but what I don't know.
I'd just like to relay a very scary situation that happened to me while I helped out in my daughters first grade class some 9 years ago - it was the first time either of my daughters had attended public school - we moved to the DC area for a short period of time and the new area we moved to we couldn't afford private so they went to public school.
There were kids of all races and economic backgrounds - I thought it was a great experience for my kids although I realized once they were put there they couldn't handle it - they'd been sheltered all their lives in a tiny private christian school. (our bad )
Anyhow, long story short I started volunteering in the school and I'll never forget the day this one kid came up to me and said, "you know I'm stronger than you and can I kill you in a second if I want to". MIND YOU THIS WAS A SIX YEAR OLD KID IN FIRST GRADE! This kid was 3 times the size of his fellow students and wanted hugs all the time - yet when he hugged you it was a hug to kill - not a hug of compassion or appreciation.
We've sinced moved to another state but I often think about this kid and I'd really like to know whats happened to him - if he's doing well in school or what. I remember having a conversation with his mother (single parent) at one point in time because he was harassing my daughter at school. His mother seemed disassociated or unconcerned and said she'd talk to him. Nothing changed - then we moved.

I agree there's something going on with this kid who killed his father and friend at the age of 8 - but I also believe he knew the difference between right and wrong when he picked up that shotgun and shot then reloaded - shot - reloaded - shot - reloaded. Now there's something definitely not right about that IMO.

[odette]

2nd man allegedy killed by boy called doting dad

PHOENIX (AP) — A man allegedly shot to death by an 8-year-old boy closely followed his daughters' sporting events and texted loving messages to his family while he lived apart from them for a construction job, his wife said Tuesday.

Tanya Romans said her husband, Timothy, worked a construction job in St. Johns for about a year while his family lived 170 miles away in metropolitan Phoenix. She and their 18- and 19-year-old daughters lived in metro Phoenix to be closer to college.

• Article Continued

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i...qNNTAD94D1QSO0

[odette]

Experts: Abuse often behind kids killing parents

PHOENIX (AP) — As an 8-year-old Arizona boy sits in a juvenile jail, charged with murdering his father and another man, the biggest unanswered question is "Why?"

Police say the boy planned and meticulously carried out the shootings, but they haven't discussed a motive. Child psychologists and others say that while many factors could cause a child to kill a parent, the most common in other cases has been severe abuse.

It's rare for children 8 and younger to commit homicide. No such crime occurred in the United States between 2005 and 2007, according to FBI statistics. Twenty-one children ages 5 to 8 committed homicide in the 10-year period ending in 2004, the statistics show.

"These are head-scratchers, especially when you have young people," said defense attorney Paul Mones, who has represented children accused of killing their parents and written a book called "When a Child Kills."

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http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i...qNNTAD94D9I003

[odette]

Mad or bad? Boy, 8, who shot dead father

PSYCHOLOGISTS were today preparing to examine an eight-year-old American boy in order to discover what led him to shoot dead his father and another man with a hunting rifle.

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http://news.scotsman.com/world/Mad-o...y-8.4683917.jp

[odette]

Why Do Kids Kill?

8-Year-Old's Killing Spree Raises Questions About Why Children Murder

Investigators are still piecing together exactly what took place in an eastern Arizona home, where an 8-year-old boy allegedly shot and killed his father and another man, systematically reloading a rifle and firing at close range.

Details from the St. Johns crime scene are scant, and with a court-imposed gag order, little new information is likely to come out unless the boy is tried for the two counts of murder on which he has been charged.

Police initially suspected the boy had been physically or sexually abused, but before the gag order was imposed Monday, investigators said they had found no evidence of trauma.

"That's what makes this so troubling," Roy Melnick, chief of police in St. Johns, told the New York Times Tuesday.

• Article Continued

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=6233064

[odette]

SHOCKING DISCOVERY

8-Year-old Planned Murder of Father and Friend

An eight-year-old boy from Arizona has been arrested a couple of days after he killed his father, Vincent Romero, 29, and his friend Timothy Romans, the New York Times reported. He was transferred from a psychiatric institution which conducted his psychological evaluation into juvenile prison on Monday. The boy admitted to the murders. There is no evidence of him being physically or mentally abused, so the motives of the murders have not been established. There is the possibility that the boy planned the murders.

The men were killed with a hunting rifle which needs to be reloaded after every shot.

• Article Continued

http://www.javno.com/en/world/clanak.php?id=202911

[odette]

Mother Baffled in Arizona Murders

ST. JOHNS, Ariz. — The divorced mother of an 8-year-old boy accused of shooting his father and another man to death last week said she was as puzzled as everyone else about what led to the killings, but added that her son was not capable of the crime.

“I don’t believe he did this,” said Erin Bloomfield, 26, who has shared joint custody with her son’s father, Vincent Romero, 29, after their divorce six years ago.

She said that the boy, who lived here with his father and stepmother, had grown more withdrawn in recent months, and that she worried that he might have been abused in some way. Ms. Bloomfield, who looked wan and worried, confirmed reports that Mr. Romero had spanked their son the day before the shootings. She also said that her son was close to his father. The two played ball, and went hiking and hunting together regularly.

Article continued.....

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/13/us...us&oref=slogin

[grneyes]

Originally Posted by Joseph Bell

I don't know. Thanks for the update MBS. A gag on proceedings makes it hard to work out what happened but I still think there had to be something to make the child snap. And I'll go back to an earlier point. Why would anyone think it necessary that an 8 year old should know how to load and fire a weapon?

It's actually pretty common in families where their are hunters. I've known how to shoot since I was young as did my parents and grandparents. In our house (when I was a kid) the guns were not locked up, but we all (we kids) never would have considered touching one of them unless we were going hunting or for target practice and then only when an adult was around. We knew they were dangerous and not toys.

[grneyes]

Originally Posted by Joseph Bell

Hey Miss Kitty. Depends on where you live I guess. People who live in the bush do have weapons but I grew up in town and never had anything to do with them. People certainly do go roo shooting, pig shooting etc but it's not common where I live to have weapons in your home (well, not the law abiding people anyway). But you were obviously taught to have respect for what they can do and how to use them properly. I would assume that if you have children and weapons in a house then the weapons a) wouldn't be loaded and b) the ammunition would be stored separately where an 8 year old wouldn't be able to get his hands on it.

My kids were taught the same way I was but no, the guns were never kept loaded and were locked in a gun cabinet. The shells were kept locked in a different cabinet than the guns also. For the most part I was raised in the city too so I knew not to keep my guns out in the open not only because of the kids, but in case of break ins too.

This boys dad was a hunter so I'm assuming the boy was taught at least some gun safety so what made him go off and kill 2 people? I mean, 8 year olds don't normally make a habit of doing this.... I'm hoping this isn't a case of, "well dad made me mad so I killed him...."

[sharlock]

I think that if it was just a case of Dad spanked me and I am mad then only Dad would have been shot. It was something to do with both the male adults in the house and if the change in his attitude is really as recent as his Mum implies then they might not be able to get the child to discuss any abuse at all even if it did occur.

[sharlock]

Originally Posted by Joseph Bell

I'm a bit confused about who was where. The father and the other victim were construction workers and lived away from his wife and daughters. Does anyone know why the boy was with his father? Why wasn't he in the family home with the step-mother?

I'm not really sure either? It would be interesting to know though.

[odette]

Mother of 8-year old boy accused in St. Johns murders questioned

A family member confirms to 12 news that the mother of an 8-year old boy accused of double murder was interviwed by St. John's police detectives Friday. That family member doesn't know why Erin Bloomfield was interviewed, but says Bloomfield was told that other family members would also be questioned in the case.

The 8-year old boy is accused of using a .22 caliber rifle to kill his father, 29-year old Vincent Romero, and Romero's roomate, 39-year old Timothy Romans. Detectives claim the murders were premeditated and that the boy confessed to the heinous crimes. But family members and friends say the boy and his father were inseperable and don't suspect abuse.

Former ATF agent turned private investigator Joe Gordon says it's not unusual for detectives to interview the family members of homicide suspects. In this case Gordon thinks police could be establishing a motive. By probing the mother they could get insight on his relationship with his father and his personality.

On monday an Apache County judge issues a gag order preventing lawyers and police officers from commenting on the case. The boy is scheduled for a round of psychological tests in two weeks. Those tests should determine whether he's competent to stand trial. The boy is due back in court Wednesday.

http://www.azcentral.com/12news/news...142008-CR.html

[odette]

Rebekah Price - americanchronicle.com - November 13, 2008

Arizona's Dilemma--A Boy's Childhood Dies With His Father

He is eight years old and charged as an adult for the murder of his father, Vincent Romero, and his father´s friend, Timothy Romans. One body was found in a doorway, the other upstairs. Hmmm, no signs of trouble in school that we know of, but a little withdrawn recently says his mother. No blatant indication that this young boy was troubled; but two men are dead and he confessed. Now the close-knit town of St. Johns, Arizona, approximately four thousand strong, is reeling from the murders of these two men.

Police say that the eight year old boy confessed to the murder when he was being questioned. No family or lawyer was present at that time, nor had the young boy been informed of his rights; ironically, once those verbal bullets were fired from the oral gun, charges were put into motion.

Hmmm. A "confession" from an eight year old… Does it make sense? No. Not yet, anyway.

The young boy´s mother, Erin Bloomfield, states she had concerns about what was really going on in the Romero household over the last few months. Her son, she said, had become more withdrawn after confiding in her that his father and stepmother quarreled more often than not, as reported by the New York Times. Her concern prompted her to contact her son´s stepmother, Tiffany Romero, in order to evaluate the situation. After that call, she reported her son was basically told by his stepmother to keep his mouth shut about the goings on in the Romero home.

Is your brain working yet?

An eight year old child may be able to define murder, granted. But premeditated murder requires not just understanding the difference between right and wrong, it requires culpability--that is, that this child is able to understand the act, commit the act and comprehend the consequences of his actions. It is difficult to envision a happy eight year old picking up a gun and not only shooting one man, but actively searching out another--on a different floor of the residence remember--and picking him off, too. Does it make sense that he would have the capability to hold himself together emotionally after shooting one dead to hunt the other down? And that is only one question.

What was going on in that house? What about others, like where was Tiffany Romero in all of this? What kind of things were she and Vincent Romero allegedly frequently quarreling about? How close was she to the man who rented a room from them? What was causing this eight year old confessed shooter to become increasingly distant from his biological mother? Could Tiffany have been having an affair? And what affect did Tiffany have on this young boy? Was she the only daily female presence in his life? Could he have fired the gun at her request?

• Article Continued

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/81429

[deputydi]

Originally Posted by Joseph Bell

I'm a bit confused about who was where. The father and the other victim were construction workers and lived away from his wife and daughters. Does anyone know why the boy was with his father? Why wasn't he in the family home with the step-mother?

It is my understanding that this was the Romero family home and the step-mother was out. The other man who was killed worked on the same construction job as Mr Romero and lived in another town. He rented a room at the Romero's home during the week and went home on weekends.

There's got to be more to this story than is being reported right now. I wonder if the recent marriage of his dad had something to do with what happened. It's possible the child resented her presence in his life and dad was taking his new bride's side in some dispute.

[deputydi]

Originally Posted by Joseph Bell

Az authorities wouldn't really send an 8 year old to trial for double murder would they? I'd still like to know why he was with the father instead of with the stepmother and his sisters.

I seriously doubt they will try him as an adult. Some reports say he is being charged as a juvenile, and others say he is charged as an adult. I can't believe they could possibly try an 8 yr old boy as an adult offender.

[sharlock]

Originally Posted by Joseph Bell

Az authorities wouldn't really send an 8 year old to trial for double murder would they? I'd still like to know why he was with the father instead of with the stepmother and his sisters.

It seems to me that it happens all too often in America.

Children Behind Bars
by Christopher Kellerman
It is said that a civilized society can be judged by how it treats its children. While we incarcerate and execute more of our young, we expand our prison system, while decreasing spending on education and prevention programs.

Out of the few countries whose laws provide for execution for crimes that people commit as children, the United States has carried out more of these executions than any of the others. In the past ten years, juvenile cases that have been referred to adult courts have increased more than 70%. (White)

"Children in adult institutions are five times as likely to be sexually assaulted, twice as likely to be beaten by staff, and 50% more likely to be attacked by a weapon than children in a juvenile facility." (Brooks)

The enormity of the problem is obvious. What is not so clear is the cause. Possible reasons for the increase we see in juvenile crime, according so some, may include the increased availability of firearms, more families trying to survive at poverty level incomes, and children with a history of sexual abuse. One major factor that has not received the coverage it is due is this: A great number of children presently in the criminal justice system have suffered neurological damage due to prenatal exposure to alcohol. (Zakreski) According to studies of children who suffer from Fetal Alcohol Syndrome (FAS) and Fetal Alcohol Effects (FAE), there is a 60% risk of their being charged or convicted of a crime. (Streissguth)

(Louv) Prevention is the answer, but prevention programs cannot come about without the support of funding. Every $1,000 spent on crime prevention programs for youth saves $3,000 dollars that would be wasted on ineffective punishment. We owe it to our children. We owe it to our community. We owe it to our future.
http://www.come-over.to/fasstar/juvcrime1.htm

[sharlock]

I found very relevant report by the CFYCG - "Jailing Juveniles:
The Dangers of Incarcerating Youth in Adult Jails in America
A Campaign for Youth Justice Report: November 2007"

It is a really compelling read and I actually cried in one part when I read a letter written by a youth to his judge 2 and a half mths before he committed suicide.
It points out that a high proportion of children in adult jails have been severely affected due to parents drinking while pregnant and breastfeeding. It admits that over 2/3 of youth are held in adult prisons prior to their trial. While incarcerated they are at high risk for suicide and they also account for 11 to 23% of the assaults in prison even though they account for only 1% of the population. They are clearly at risk of sexual abuse and rape and to avoid this most will try to do something to get into trouble which then results in an automatic 30days in isolation which keeps them locked up for 23hrs a day with nothing to do exascerbating mental conditions, still it is preferable to the constant fear they face in general pop. This is just wrong on so many levels!!!
I really hope you will all read this. There are also some excellent documentaries out there showing parents visiting their young children in jail and some of them aren't even allowed physical contact.
I would die if I could not hug my son!

[odette]

Boy, 8, accused of killing two

ST. JOHNS - Rocked by a double murder in their small close-knit community last Wednesday afternoon, the residents of St. Johns have only one question on their minds. Why would an eight-year-old boy allegedly kill two men, one of whom was his father?

Excerpt: In response to questions from Carlyon, Neckel said she and Apache County Sheriff's Cmdr. Matrese Avila interviewed the youngster the following morning. She said the boy initially told them he got off the school bus and walked around the neighborhood before going home. As he approached the home, he told the officers he saw a body on the front porch and then went inside and called for his dad before seeing his dad's body lying on the stairs. "He said he stayed there for 30 minutes and then he left the residence and went to a neighbor's house where there is another young man. He spoke to him and told him his father was dead and his father's friend was dead," said Neckel.

She said the boy's story changed with every question the officers asked. She said they discussed gun shot residue in words the youngster could understand, and they asked him if he would have any on his clothing - the boy acknowledged that he may have some on his clothing. "He said when he entered the house there was a lot of smoke in the house. He also told us that he did pick up the gun, and that the smoke would have caused (residue) to be on his clothing. We asked if he would have a little or a lot, he said a lot." She said he then admitted that he may have fired the gun.

"Did you ask him if he might have been mad at his dad," asked Carlyon. Neckel said the boy admitted he was mad at his dad. "He said that the evening before, he didn't bring some papers home from school and his dad was very angry and had (the boy's) stepmother spank him five swats."

Defense attorney Ben Brewer further questioned the officer about the crime scene - much of his questioning concerned what individuals were at the crime scene, what were they doing there, and how the crime scene evidence was collected. Neckel named the officers who she was aware entered the home. She told Brewer that all of the evidence from the crime scene was collected by Arizona Department of Public Safety crime lab technicians.

Neckel said neither she nor Avila, a certified forensic interviewer, read the boy his Miranda rights. "We felt he was a victim. I would say that in 90 percent of that interview I felt he was a victim." She said it was just in the last few minutes of their conversation with the boy that she and Avila began to believe the boy was not a victim, but something different.

Carlyon next called Sgt. Rodriquez to the stand. He told the court he observed the body on the front porch and believed the person (Romans) was dead. He said he entered the home, quickly searched it for any additional subjects and found a second dead body (Romero) laying face down on the stairs. Carlyon handed the witness several crime scene photographs from which he asked a series of questions concerning the exact location of the bodies, shell casings and other evidence the officer noticed at the scene. Rodriquez said from the shell casings he found near the bodies, he believed the murder weapon was a 22-caliber weapon. Police later located a 22-caliber rifle a couple feet inside the front door - he described the rifle as a single-shot bolt-action rifle. In talking to the boy's grandmother, he said he learned she had originally purchased the gun for her son, and he in turn gave it to his son. "She said (her grandson) knew how to use it." Rodriquez said he learned the Romero family members were hunters and had many guns in the home, mostly stored in the master bedroom.

As to who may have called 911, Rodriquez said he understood the 8-year-old went to his friend's home nearby and told the friend his dad and his dad's friend were dead. Rodriquez believes the friend told the story to a teenage sibling who in turn called their father at work. The father returned home within minutes, saw what appeared to be a body on the front porch of the Romero home and called 911.

Rodriquez admitted it was difficult to talk about some of the things he saw that afternoon at the Romero home.

The final officer to take the stand was Apache County Sheriff's Sgt. Web Hogle. He said his involvement occurred the following day when he relieved another deputy who had retained the chain of custody of the bodies throughout the night at a nearby funeral home. He testified that although the bodies were still fully clothed, he was able to observe what appeared to be 22-caliber pin-point size holes in several locations on their clothing.

Hogle said several members of the Romans family arrived at the funeral home while he was there. He pulled a couple family members aside in an attempt to calm them down, and it was during that time that Romans' wife said her husband called her right after he got home from work. While discussing work and other topics with her husband, she told the officer she could hear the 8-year-old boy in the background yelling at her husband, "Tim, I need you to come in here, something's wrong with dad. Tim, come in the house, something's wrong." Hogel said Ms. Romans insisted the officers talk to the youngster - "He knows something; he was there when something bad happened to my husband. Make sure that they talk to him about this." Ms. Romans said the last thing her husband said to her was that the Romero youngster said something was wrong and he needed to go look into it.

After 4-1/2 hours of testimony, Rocca said he found probable cause that the boy was involved in the crimes he is charged with and ordered that he be detained in the Apache County juvenile detention center for the time being. He ordered a psychiatric evaluation be initiated and requested that child protective services begin an investigation with an eye to future dependency hearings.

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[sharlock]

Originally Posted by Joseph Bell

She said the boy's story changed with every question the officers asked. She said they discussed gun shot residue in words the youngster could understand, and they asked him if he would have any on his clothing - the boy acknowledged that he may have some on his clothing. "He said when he entered the house there was a lot of smoke in the house. He also told us that he did pick up the gun, and that the smoke would have caused (residue) to be on his clothing. We asked if he would have a little or a lot, he said a lot." She said he then admitted that he may have fired the gun.

Fired the gun when? A day before, 2 days before? A month ago? I'd like to know how you discuss gun residue with an 8 year old in words he understands, of course bearing in mind that he wouldn't have the faintest idea a) he should have an adult with him while being questioned and b) every word you say can be taken down and used against you - oh, that's Miranda rights isn't it? They weren't explained to him, were they.

Exactly! I noticed she made a point of saying they considered him a victim for 90% of the interview in an effort to try and minimalise the fact that he hadn't been read his rights or offered counsel, had no parent or adult working in his best interest present, I have been told that in USA you don't have to invoke Miranda rights unless the person is suspected of wrongdoing which would explain her rush to say he wasn't suspected.
I do believe this child might have committed this crime and that is tragic but I worry that if some horrible abuse isn't found (or admitted) people will turn on this child writing him off as evil and forgetting the fact that he is a very, young boy who could not possibly understand the ramifications of his actions and would have a good chance at rehailitation if he was given the correct care. JMHO

[sharlock]

"He said that the evening before, he didn't bring some papers home from school and his dad was very angry and had (the boy's) stepmother spank him five swats."

Why wouldn't he discipline his own child? I don't understand why he would get the Stepmum to mete out the spanking, seems mighty strange to me!