The child that Aileen Wuornos gave up for adoption

[Jules100]

I wonder if he is aware of who his natural mother is . I got thinking about this after i watched a programme about the children who had been fathered by Charles Manson

[rph3664]

Considering how few adoptees ever search for their birth parents, the chances are he probably doesn't.

And since the "nature vs. nurture" thing holds a lot more water than people used to think, he's probably had a life as chaotic as hers, regardless of the type of family he was adopted into.

[Jules100]

Originally Posted by rph3664

Considering how few adoptees ever search for their birth parents, the chances are he probably doesn't.

And since the "nature vs. nurture" thing holds a lot more water than people used to think, he's probably had a life as chaotic as hers, regardless of the type of family he was adopted into.

if that's the case then it is really sad, i hope wherever he is that he has at least had a better start in life than his birth mother did

[Ice]

Originally Posted by rph3664

Considering how few adoptees ever search for their birth parents, the chances are he probably doesn't.

And since the "nature vs. nurture" thing holds a lot more water than people used to think, he's probably had a life as chaotic as hers, regardless of the type of family he was adopted into.

If he was brought into a stable home with loving parents, I can't imagine why you'd say that. I may be in the minority, but I've always felt that if Warnous had been in that type of environment, her life would have turned out much differently than it did.

I always draw on the Stayner brothers (Steven and Cary when I consider nature vs. nurture though). Night and day, those two, same biological parents.

In my opinion, giving that child away was selfless and loving of Warnous, a real decent thing to do. How many mothers SHOULD have done that?? I can read about quite a few right here.

My two cents.

[rph3664]

Originally Posted by Ice

If he was brought into a stable home with loving parents, I can't imagine why you'd say that. I may be in the minority, but I've always felt that if Warnous had been in that type of environment, her life would have turned out much differently than it did.

I always draw on the Stayner brothers (Steven and Cary when I consider nature vs. nurture though). Night and day, those two, same biological parents.

In my opinion, giving that child away was selfless and loving of Warnous, a real decent thing to do. How many mothers SHOULD have done that?? I can read about quite a few right here.

My two cents.

You may be correct about Aileen and her brother; we will never know. My statement came from the adoptive parents I have known who had all kinds of problems with a child from day one - and these were babies adopted at or shortly after birth! Of course, they often don't know about prenatal drug exposure and things like that. And we don't know what really goes on in a lot of homes, but adoption studies have proven a lot of things, like a tendency towards alcoholism.

BTW, I don't think giving the baby up was an option for Aileen. Her grandparents probably would never have let her back in the house with a baby, and back then, the girls who went into those maternity homes usually did not have an option about keeping them, and this was a combination of the home's decision and the girls' parents' decision.. The babies were adopted (or, too often, sold to the highest bidder) whether the mothers wanted to keep them or not.

I don't know if abortion was legal in Michigan in 1971, when her son was born, but in any case, she couldn't have had one because her pregnancy was not discovered until she was about 6 months along, and then IIRC it was a teacher who first noticed it!

[Fish Face Frank]

How would one intake information such as being adopted and finding out one or both of your parents were serial killers?

I think that would be a mighty tough pill to swallow.

[Super Volcano]

Originally Posted by Fish Face Frank

How would one intake information such as being adopted and finding out one or both of your parents were serial killers?

I think that would be a mighty tough pill to swallow.

Good point. I think I would feel devastated by the news if it were me. If the child has good adoptive parents, then in my opinion it is better for that child to have those good role models in their lives, instead of knowing that their real parents were selfish killers. If it were me, I would be humiliated by the news.

[rph3664]

Originally Posted by Fish Face Frank

How would one intake information such as being adopted and finding out one or both of your parents were serial killers?

I think that would be a mighty tough pill to swallow.

That's one reason why so many adoptees have told me that they don't want to look for their birth parents - that they probably don't want to know the circumstances of their birth and adoption.

[Super Volcano]

Originally Posted by rph3664

That's one reason why so many adoptees have told me that they don't want to look for their birth parents - that they probably don't want to know the circumstances of their birth and adoption.

IMO I think that is wise of them. I think that if others knew if the birth parents were good people, then I think that that would be a reason to encourage the kids to seek them out, or know of their history. But in a case like Aileens, I think that would be devestating, and in a way, cruel to that kid.

[lilmiss1960]

From my own experience, I can tell you adopted kids react differently when they are told they are adopted.

1. Denial and anger

2. They think it's pretty cool

I know because both my older brother and I were adopted into the same family. We both have different birth parents. He was adopted 3 years before I was and we were both told when we were pretty young, but old enough to understand and we both reacted differently. His was with anger and denial that he was adopted. He is in his 50's now and he still won't admit that he's adopted.
I, on the other hand, thought it was pretty cool. I was curious about my birth mom, how old she was, what did she look like, why did she give me up and so on. I think by the time I was 12, I wanted to find her and meet her. My adopted mom told me when I turn 18 and if I still wanted to find my birth mom, she would help me.
But, life happens. You grow up, get married and have children of your own and then comes the computer and the internet. I waited until my kids were grown before I started to actively search for my birth mom. She had been looking for me since 1983 and I started my search in 1999, but we finally did find each other and meet.
As for Aileen's son, if the adopted parents know she is his birth mom, I'm not sure if that is something they should with hold from him. Adoption agencies don't tell prospective adopting parents everything about the birth parent or the child's background that they are adopting. Their fear is that if the adopting parent knows, they won't want the baby and if the child was born to a drug addicted mother and that should manifest in something with the child, good luck getting the agency to tell you anything, especially back in the early '70's. I was born in the '60's and they wouldn't tell my adopted mom anything until she told them, what if she asks me questions like nationality and so on? They finally rattled some things off, but a lot of it was wrong, like my father's grandfather was a sheriff. He was never a sheriff.
I can imagine how the boy would have reacted if he decided to search for his birth mom and found out who she was. He would be angry, he would confront his adopted parents and ask if they knew, if they did, why didn't they tell him. It would take some time for him to come to terms with it. I feel bad for all of these adopted kids who's bio parents were criminals that are serving life in prison or were executed.

[delaineyrae]

Originally Posted by rph3664

Considering how few adoptees ever search for their birth parents, the chances are he probably doesn't.

And since the "nature vs. nurture" thing holds a lot more water than people used to think, he's probably had a life as chaotic as hers, regardless of the type of family he was adopted into.

most people think of adoption as a loving act. which is not the truth.
some counties and states are so despret to get rid of child that has been in their sytem for years they will make a buy1 get 1 deal with some families. which is my case, i was 9 and i knew in my gut this was a bad thing. and right from the start i knew i wasnt as special to my new parents as my other brothers and sisters. i now have a more loving relationship with both of my biological parents than i do my adoptive ones.

[rph3664]

[quote=lilmiss1960;9125124]From my own experience, I can tell you adopted kids react differently when they are told they are adopted.

1. Denial and anger

2. They think it's pretty cool

[quote]

Nowadays, a huge percentage of adoptees would figure it out anyway, because they are not the same race as their adoptive parents, or they were adopted into a gay relationship.

[onalaska]

My brother and I were both adopted. We never felt like we were treated and differently than any other kids in our family. I feel very sad for any child that's made to feel they aren't as good as the others because they are adopted. My mom always told us that they,meaning our parents, were the special ones because God let us pick out who our parents would be, and we picked them....

[SaraSidle]

Originally Posted by onalaska

My brother and I were both adopted. We never felt like we were treated and differently than any other kids in our family. I feel very sad for any child that's made to feel they aren't as good as the others because they are adopted. My mom always told us that they,meaning our parents, were the special ones because God let us pick out who our parents would be, and we picked them....

what an uplifting story onalaska. I am so glad to hear it. I am always worried about children being adopted and abused. thank you for letting me know it does not always happen.......sara

[Seashell]

I always will remember aileen wuornos as a victim as well as i am not in the least suprised at her becoming such a monster after all the abuse she suffered in her life i know there are a lot of people who also blame her as a seria killer but to me she really was a victim of the circumstances that were thrown to her in her lifetime.
She shouldnt have been executed as she was really mentally ill she showed how il she was when she gave her last interviews.
I hope the child she gave up into adoption has a better life than she did.
JMHO.

[Fish Face Frank]

Originally Posted by Seashell

I always will remember aileen wuornos as a victim as well as i am not in the least suprised at her becoming such a monster after all the abuse she suffered in her life i know there are a lot of people who also blame her as a seria killer but to me she really was a victim of the circumstances that were thrown to her in her lifetime.
She shouldnt have been executed as she was really mentally ill she showed how il she was when she gave her last interviews.
I hope the child she gave up into adoption has a better life than she did.
JMHO.

I have almost fallen into the opinion that she was a victim, but I had to keep reminding myself that she was definitely a cold blooded, evil, murderer.

Most serial killers have had awful childhoods. For one to think Aileen is a victim would have to apply that same label to Henry Lee Lucas, Otis Toole, and countless others as well.

[Seashell]

Originally Posted by Fish Face Frank

I have almost fallen into the opinion that she was a victim, but I had to keep reminding myself that she was definitely a cold blooded, evil, murderer.

Most serial killers have had awful childhoods. For one to think Aileen is a victim would have to apply that same label to Henry Lee Lucas, Otis Toole, and countless others as well.

From what i have read about wuornos she had been sexually abused as well as when she tried to go on the right track even the very people she turned to asked for sexual favors, it was enough to set her sick mind off.
She deserved to be caught as well as locked up but certainly not to have the DP.
She was a mentally sick woman.

[grneyes]

Originally Posted by Seashell

From what i have read about wuornos she had been sexually abused as well as when she tried to go on the right track even the very people she turned to asked for sexual favors, it was enough to set her sick mind off.
She deserved to be caught as well as locked up but certainly not to have the DP.
She was a mentally sick woman.

I don't think she should have gotten death either. She was "screwed" over by pretty much everyone in her life. It's not surprising she turned out the way she did.

[delaineyrae]

Originally Posted by grneyes

I don't think she should have gotten death either. She was "screwed" over by pretty much everyone in her life. It's not surprising she turned out the way she did.

i am so conflicted over how i feel about her. part of me feels like she was one of those people with a mark on them that get taken advantage of, and she got violent to survive. the other part things she kept doing what she did for the heck of it
but i still think she should have gotten life with no chance at parole

[wind149]

I have a friend here in MI that actually grew up near her in Jackson MI and abused is an under statement. According to my friend, her mother abandoned she and her brother, dropped them off at her parents and went in the wind and now I understand she lives in the UP part of MI and to say I hate that woman would also be an under statement. She had been abused both physically and sexually abused by her father, and still, she left her children with that POS and from day one both of those kids, Aileen and her brother Keith were terribly abused and my friend said she saw injuries on Alieen like bruises on her face and arms, she never looked clean and wore handmade dresses or hand me downs, and the one thing that really cut me deep, she never saw Aileen smile or show any happiness, kids picked on her of course and she would lash out at them and she would be the one suspended, this woman never stood a chance and my friend said that everyone thought when she became pregnant, that is was grandpa's baby as he kicked her out of the house and for awhile she lived in the woods, people took pity on her and would give her food and my friend tried to help her, but her parents thought the family was trash and forbade Jan from helping her.

After giving birth to the child, she started selling herself and then headed for FL and as the story goes, the rest is history. I remember a reporter right before she was executed had contacted her disgusting mother and she had the balls to tell the reporter that she hoped Lee would forgive her and when he relayed that, she went ballistic and who can blame her? By the time she went to death row, her mind was completely gone and I think she should have gotten a life sentence, they can't execute a retarded person, what about a woman who was so gone, that while she owned up to the murders, she was killling grandpa every time she pulled the trigger and I am sure as a hooker, she was abused by men, and I am sure even raped and there is such a misconception that hookers can't be raped, well they can, they feel they are paying for it and there are men out there that have kinky or dangerous fantasies and probably hurt her in many ways. I listened to her rant one night and I am thinking, this poor soul, all she wanted was somebody to love her and care for her and I think she thought she found that with Tyra, and then she let her down too, so she basically was f***** over by everyone and even though it was her choice to die, I think maybe with some serious therapy, she might have been helped to the point where her childhood was not her fault, that she had some value as a human being, and believe it. My friend was very shicked when she found out Lee was a serial killer, she did say that she had a bad temper, and if she was to kill anybody, it would have been grandpa and mommy, and don't think granny was an angel, she was an alcoholic and was deeply into her religion and basically ignored the kids and did not come to their aid, even when he was raping Lee. Keith died and Iam not sure what from and Lee took that hard too, she had no joy in her life, he was deeply mentally ill, an alcoholic and drug user, she self medicated, like millions of abused people do, they drink to blot out the pain and by adding addiction to mental illness, this was disaster from the get go and Iam glad that people here think she got a raw deal and I usually am an ambassador for the death penalty, in this case, I felt sorrow for her and while she was a serial killer, I can understand why.

[rph3664]

Her brother died of throat cancer when he was 21.

I wonder if he was a male prostitute because throat cancer is sometimes linked to the HPV virus.

[Seashell]

Originally Posted by rph3664

Her brother died of throat cancer when he was 21.

I wonder if he was a male prostitute because throat cancer is sometimes linked to the HPV virus.

pfffffft....
so if i get throat cancer today then it makes me a PROSTITUTE you really need to get your mind out if the gutter
Wuornos was a badly abused victim and god help her brother if he was brought up in same hell, her mother is as much to blame for what she did by letting her daughter down.
RIP wuornos.

[rph3664]

Originally Posted by Seashell

pfffffft....
so if i get throat cancer today then it makes me a PROSTITUTE you really need to get your mind out if the gutter
Wuornos was a badly abused victim and god help her brother if he was brought up in same hell, her mother is as much to blame for what she did by letting her daughter down.
RIP wuornos.

That's not what I meant at all.

Throat cancer is EXTREMELY uncommon in someone that young! Nowadays, many cases are indeed believed to result from HPV, which I am extremely aware does infect a huge percentage of the population, both male and female.

By all accounts, he was quite likely headed down the same path that she was.

[texaschickeee]

Originally Posted by rph3664

You may be correct about Aileen and her brother; we will never know. My statement came from the adoptive parents I have known who had all kinds of problems with a child from day one - and these were babies adopted at or shortly after birth! Of course, they often don't know about prenatal drug exposure and things like that. And we don't know what really goes on in a lot of homes, but adoption studies have proven a lot of things, like a tendency towards alcoholism.


I don't know if abortion was legal in Michigan in 1971, when her son was born, but in any case, she couldn't have had one because her pregnancy was not discovered until she was about 6 months along, and then IIRC it was a teacher who first noticed it!

That is called genetic predisposition for alcoholism. Its across the board.
However, like you also said most have no clue about drugs in the system or prenatal care for that child.
As a substance abuse counselor and seeing on a daily basis at work (a women and children program in my rehab center) The children that have different drugs in their system when born have (A) more social interaction problems, (B) have a higher rate of emotional NOT ADHD but emotional /psych problems and have far more health problems then the ones that had no drugs in their system. and yes the children born with the drugs in their system do go through withdraw after birth.

[texaschickeee]

Originally Posted by grneyes

I don't think she should have gotten death either. She was "screwed" over by pretty much everyone in her life. It's not surprising she turned out the way she did.

Its one thing to get screwed by everyone, but its something totally different to start killing people. She was very violent in her killing. Charles Manson was screwed over by all the people in his life until he "made" His own family.

Choices and consequences.
She could have lived with out committing the crimes she did. (no I'm not talking prostitution at this time) She killed 7 people.

Karla Faye tucker was the same, and again she choice to commit the crimes that she died for. Yes I may sound really cold but however, what if in 7 years she found some loop hole to pull herself through and get out of prison at that time? Same with Charles Manson or Ted Bundy....They are have the consequence of their actions.
but again thats just me.

[grneyes]

Originally Posted by texaschickeee

Its one thing to get screwed by everyone, but its something totally different to start killing people. She was very violent in her killing. Charles Manson was screwed over by all the people in his life until he "made" His own family.

Choices and consequences.
She could have lived with out committing the crimes she did. (no I'm not talking prostitution at this time) She killed 7 people.

Karla Faye tucker was the same, and again she choice to commit the crimes that she died for. Yes I may sound really cold but however, what if in 7 years she found some loop hole to pull herself through and get out of prison at that time? Same with Charles Manson or Ted Bundy....They are have the consequence of their actions.
but again thats just me.

Unfortunately, There is a chance of that every time a violent criminal is locked up.

[old_soul]

I think the story that wind147 told is the first time I've ever heard of anyone knowing Aileen and her family life at the time she was growing up. MOO, You can see in photos of her earlier days and on, how she descended into madness...Also, Aileen never deviated from the fact of who she was ~ a prostitute, whereas many other serial killers were intentionally deceiving. Look at Bundy, Ann Rule said she sat side by side many nights with him on the rape hotline offices, and She never suspected a thing, even as they discussed the murders. Or how about John Gacy, who was married, socially acceptable ~ both of the 2 men lived double lives. They intentionally plotted, planned and schemed the death of all those people. I don't think that puts her in the same category as them. If her stories were true ( who didn't want to pay her, who raped her) etc, you can almost understand her rage, in her crazed mind, going back as a child, and killing men in this sort of confrontation. She maybe should have been locked up and studied to see the mind of someone who has gone through a childhood so horrendous to find how their brain changes. Look at Dahmer ~ he was going to do that, to find out why he became like that, before he was killed in prison. He was never abused and also lived a double life, and wanted to know why it happened to him.

[rph3664]

Originally Posted by old_soul

I think the story that wind147 told is the first time I've ever heard of anyone knowing Aileen and her family life at the time she was growing up. MOO, You can see in photos of her earlier days and on, how she descended into madness...Also, Aileen never deviated from the fact of who she was ~ a prostitute, whereas many other serial killers were intentionally deceiving. Look at Bundy, Ann Rule said she sat side by side many nights with him on the rape hotline offices, and She never suspected a thing, even as they discussed the murders. Or how about John Gacy, who was married, socially acceptable ~ both of the 2 men lived double lives. They intentionally plotted, planned and schemed the death of all those people. I don't think that puts her in the same category as them. If her stories were true ( who didn't want to pay her, who raped her) etc, you can almost understand her rage, in her crazed mind, going back as a child, and killing men in this sort of confrontation. She maybe should have been locked up and studied to see the mind of someone who has gone through a childhood so horrendous to find how their brain changes. Look at Dahmer ~ he was going to do that, to find out why he became like that, before he was killed in prison. He was never abused and also lived a double life, and wanted to know why it happened to him.

Gacy and Dahmer had both been incarcerated for sex crimes involving young boys before they were arrested for all those murders, and had been arrested for other things as well.

Dahmer knew that what he did was wrong, but Gacy didn't see a problem with anything he did.

[browneyes106]

This is an interesting topic. There is a possibility that Aileen's son may know about her but if he did I doubt he would go public. But her son probably grew up in a good family life with security.

[Serial Killer X]

Yeah im sure he doesn't know who his mother was, i mean how could you tell him well jimmy your mum was a serial killer who murdered 9 men in the 80s and 90s. I'm sure he's in a loving home and Aileen would be happy for him.

[grneyes]

Originally Posted by browneyes106

This is an interesting topic. There is a possibility that Aileen's son may know about her but if he did I doubt he would go public. But her son probably grew up in a good family life with security.

I sure hope so. It would be sad if his life was as hard as hers growing up.

[old_soul]

Ah.......excellent question Joseph Bell!

You know it's an interesting thing....how one child enjoys torturing a small animal, while a sibling, couldn't even watch? Both have the 'same' genetics, but........

Even at a young age, we can see that something is haywire in their brain, their wires are crossed...but then we add the rest ~ how their parents, siblings, teachers, and friends treat them, and react to this 'bad' seed. Nature vs Nurture.

Do you think it starts in vitro, with that haywire cell, or gene or .........?

[wakko926]

according to Dr. Drew (Pinsky) - it is genetics and abuse that ppl are predisposed to addiction.

I happen to agree.

[RaVeN71806]

I watched the movie Monster on Aileen and I cryed at the end of the movie it was during the interview...Aileen story is truely heartbreaking...people hit a breaking and some can control it and others can't...this women was pushed and pushed to the point where she finally broke and it was beyond control..she should of never died...this women should of gotten the help she needed...this is one person who was a serial killer I feel sorry for because all she wanted to be was loved...Aileen may you rest in peace now and truely be loved like you were suppost to be...she did the right thing by giving her son up for adoption and making sure he had a loving home...

[Jenna]

I don´t think that anybody has told her son who his mother is. But sooner or later (I don´t know how old he is now?) I think everybody who is adopted will start to think about their biological parents. IF he knows who Lee is and that she gave up a son for adoption the same year he was born...and IF he happens to look like her, maybe he has the same teeth as she had or something then maybe the thought would enter his mind? Although it doesn´t seem likely it´s not impossible.

I think I would feel much worse knowing Ted Bundy was my father than having Aileen as a mother!
I wonder if Teds child knows who her/his father is! *uh....*

[SUSYDAHMER]

ive known in past a woman who was a serial killer 'wife and her daughters ,but the they loved his father even if he had done terrible things

[rph3664]

Originally Posted by rph3664

Gacy and Dahmer had both been incarcerated for sex crimes involving young boys before they were arrested for all those murders, and had been arrested for other things as well.

Dahmer knew that what he did was wrong, but Gacy didn't see a problem with anything he did.

OT: We all know that the Adam Walsh case is considered closed. Have any of you heard the rumors that some people believe that Jeffrey Dahmer killed him? Although he was living in the area at the time, I honestly do not believe he did this.

[Amy]

From the post about the Staynor brothers. It was the one who was raised in their home who turned out to be a murderer, and the one who spent most of his life in captivity that turned out to be the "better" brother. I do realize that Steven had his problems (I think there was an alcohol problem for a time,) but was on a straighter path when he died, and certainly was not a murderer.

I started working in Maternal Child in '87 and at that time, most adoptions were still closed adoptions, unlike many of the adoptions of today. The social workers of whatever agency took the babies, usually to another part of the state, or even out of state. Records were closed for a long time, don't remember when it became "legal" for records to be opened.

So, even if Aileen's son has by this time discovered who his mother is, if he was born in a maternity home in 1971, most likely his adoptive parents had little to no information about him, certainly not his mother's name.

[rph3664]

Cary Stayner had serious psychiatric problems even before his brother was kidnapped. That might have pushed him over the edge.

[Wandering]

Originally Posted by Seashell

I always will remember aileen wuornos as a victim as well as i am not in the least suprised at her becoming such a monster after all the abuse she suffered in her life i know there are a lot of people who also blame her as a seria killer but to me she really was a victim of the circumstances that were thrown to her in her lifetime.
She shouldnt have been executed as she was really mentally ill she showed how il she was when she gave her last interviews.
I hope the child she gave up into adoption has a better life than she did.
JMHO.

I agree with you. I also wonder if Aileen might have been different had she kept her child and made a life for both of them.

Aileen had a rotten life. I hope her mother is alive and that she knows what she did to her children by leaving them with that wicked man. I hope she never has a peaceful moment.