SQUARE ONE: Crime scene analysis

[FDInLaw]

This thread is reserved for discussion about the physical evidence found or missing from the crime scene. (Note, the condom wrapper has a thread all it's own.)

[FDInLaw]

#9662 Today, 01:06 PM
CSOKC
Member Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 153


Evidence Review

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I really want to do a quick review of some of the pieces of evidence. What do we know about these items, etc.? I am going to make a list, and then if anyone has anything to add please feel free!

Underwear
Knife
Blood Spots A) Light Switch B) Oven Door C) Carpet
Bloody Print on bulb (Although everyone already knows who this belongs to)
Fingernail
Condom Wrapper
Door Stick
Cell Phone
Cell Phone Battery

Okay, well I thought this was a good idea, but then I blanked.

[CSOKC]

Originally Posted by FDInLaw

This thread is reserved for discussion about the physical evidence found or missing from the crime scene. (Note, the condom wrapper has a thread all it's own.)

How about we start at the top of the list and go down?

First is the underwear. I've never understood the underwear having Kevin's semen in them since they hadn't had sex in a couple of days. Earlier there had been a comment by someone that they couldn't understand why Nona would be wearing dirty underwear. I did hear someone (maybe on 48 hours?) say that the semen could have been leaking out over a period of days.


Sorry for the someone's...as usual my memory isn't giving me all the details.

[FDInLaw]

Kevin Noppinger, a lab director from DNA Labs International, a private consulting firm, testified in December 2006 that he analyzed at the defense’s request a pair of panties recovered from the crime scene, an opened condom wrapper also recovered at the scene and fingernail clippings and vaginal and rectal swabs taken from Dirksmeyer’s body by Kokes at the time of autopsy.
Noppinger found only DNA belonging to the victim under her nail clippings, he said, although he did find “Y-chromosome” DNA evidence on the condom wrapper, Dirksmeyer’s panties and on the vaginal swab, according to his testimony.
Terri Rolfe, chief resident DNA expert with the Arkansas State Crime Lab who testified earlier in the day, informed the jury there are three types of testable DNA — nuclear, mitochondrial and Y-chromosome. Nuclear DNA, according to Rolfe, is unique to each person, while mitochondrial and Y-chromosome DNA are maternally and paternally linked, respectively. She clarified they “will point to a lineage rather than a particular person,” although they can be used to exclude certain donors assuming they do not share an ancestry with the actual donor of the DNA.
Noppinger testified although there “wasn’t a lot of DNA” on the condom wrapper, he was able to conclusively exclude Jones as the donor of the sample. Jones was, however, the donor of the spermatozoal DNA found on the vaginal swab and panties, according to Noppinger.
DNA testing does not provide information as to possible times when a sample may have been deposited, Noppinger said, although he was able to conclude the samples he found on the swab and panties were “consistent with [Jones] having had sex with Nona Dirksmeyer a few days before” the murder by testing acid phosphatase present in the sample.
According to Noppinger’s testimony, acid phosphatase is an enzyme present in sperm cells that breaks down over time. Because he found the phosphatase present in the sample that he discovered to be sufficiently diluted, he determined the spermatozoa cells found present on the panties might have been residual of a previous encounter, even surviving a light “hand washing,” or could be a result of drainage from intercourse up to a day or two earlier, according to his testimony.

http://www.couriernews.com/archived_...=kevin%20jones

[CSOKC]

Originally Posted by FDInLaw

http://www.couriernews.com/archived_...=kevin%20jones

Good find! That takes care of the underwear, unless anyone else has something to add?

[FDInLaw]

This is weird!!! From the SAME article:

Earlier in the day, Edward Bauman, a forensic serologist who conducts bodily fluid and DNA examination and testing at the Arkansas State Crime Lab testified he found no seminal fluid or DNA evidence on either the panties or the vaginal swab.
He also denied having found a fingernail or any seminal fluid in the approximately 10-by-10 foot section of carpeting removed from the scene, saying had he noticed any such evidence “I would have collected it.”
Bauman did perform tests on swabs of blood removed from the oven door in Dirksmeyer’s apartment along with the pole and base of the lamp alleged to be the murder weapon. He found that blood to belong to Dirksmeyer, according to his testimony.

What the heck???

[FDInLaw]

Found this over on In Session Message Boards. . .

Device Claims To Find Deleted Text Messages

Last Edited: Tuesday, 26 Feb 2008, 12:34 PM MST
Created: Tuesday, 26 Feb 2008, 12:34 PM MST

Read deleted phone text messages. MyFoxNY Reports


Think the text messages and other private data on your cell phone are safe? A device being sold on the internet claims to allow you to read private data stored on almost any mobile phone SIM card, including deleted messages.

Brickhouse Security claims the Cell Phone Spy data Extractor will find deleted text and view dialed numbers.
The Web site says you need to remove the SIM card from the phone, put it in the reader device and then plug it into your computer.

Brickhouse markets it as a way to spy on a wife, husband, teen or colleague's phone. . .

The spy tool doesn't come cheap. It retails for $149 on BrickHousesecurity.com. MyFoxNY.com hasn't tested the device and cannot verify its

http://www.myfoxcolorado.com/myfox/p...Y&pageId=3.1.1

[CSOKC]

Originally Posted by FDInLaw

Found this over on In Session Message Boards. . .



http://www.myfoxcolorado.com/myfox/p...Y&pageId=3.1.1

I wonder if this would work after so long though? And is it the same SIM card in the phone? Also, her phone didn't store the text messages that she sent (right?), so those wouldn't be able to show up even with this thing if I'm reading it correctly. It should show any messages that she deleted that were sent to her though, if it actually works.

Did we ever find out who sent the "I wonder why you are leading me on?" text message?

[lorettalockhorn]

Looks like this wouldn't work since the information has been written over with Duane's numbers, etc.

http://www.brickhousesecurity.com/ce...ardreader.html

[FDInLaw]

Originally Posted by lorettalockhorn

Looks like this wouldn't work since the information has been written over with Duane's numbers, etc.

http://www.brickhousesecurity.com/ce...ardreader.html

From your link:

FAQ:
How many deleted messages will I be able to recover?

Answer:
Everything that is available to be recovered! Just like deleted files on a PC hard drive, as long as the deleted data on the SIM card hasn’t been written over by a new file, it can still be retrieved. Some SIM cards hold more data than others, which is a factor in total amount of data.

Please note: Not all cell phones have SIM cards **
This product will not work with the following:
Some Nextel/Sprint 2 Way phones
All Verizon Phones
Some Prepaid phones

What kind of phone did Nona have? This might give us a clue as to how much info the lab would have been able to get off it.

[lorettalockhorn]

>>as long as the deleted data on the SIM card hasn’t been written over by a new file

Is removing Nona's information and adding Duane's the same as writing over?

[FDInLaw]

Originally Posted by lorettalockhorn

>>as long as the deleted data on the SIM card hasn’t been written over by a new file

Is removing Nona's information and adding Duane's the same as writing over?

I'm gonna guess, yes.

[lorettalockhorn]

We need for Ox to help us with this technical stuff.

[hawgustusgloop]

Originally Posted by lorettalockhorn

>>as long as the deleted data on the SIM card hasn’t been written over by a new file

Is removing Nona's information and adding Duane's the same as writing over?

I am not sure about that, but I think a lot of it is overwritten automatically through continued use of the phone (logs of new calls, etc.).

[ifIwereU]

Originally Posted by CSOKC

Good find! That takes care of the underwear, unless anyone else has something to add?

don't forget the panties were still inside the jeans that were turned inside out...as if they had been removed together at the same time....

[ifIwereU]

Originally Posted by FDInLaw

#9662 Today, 01:06 PM
CSOKC
Member Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 153


Evidence Review

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I really want to do a quick review of some of the pieces of evidence. What do we know about these items, etc.? I am going to make a list, and then if anyone has anything to add please feel free!

Underwear
Knife
Blood Spots A) Light Switch B) Oven Door C) Carpet
Bloody Print on bulb (Although everyone already knows who this belongs to)
Fingernail
Condom Wrapper
Door Stick
Cell Phone
Cell Phone Battery

Okay, well I thought this was a good idea, but then I blanked.

bra...found on living room floor...NO blood evidence found
the additional prints on the lamp that bacon claims are comparable but crime lab said was not suitiable for comparison

[guppie]

Originally Posted by FDInLaw

Found this over on In Session Message Boards. . .



http://www.myfoxcolorado.com/myfox/p...Y&pageId=3.1.1

aren't you on the ball. no wonder you got a headache!

[guppie]

Originally Posted by lorettalockhorn

>>as long as the deleted data on the SIM card hasn’t been written over by a new file

Is removing Nona's information and adding Duane's the same as writing over?

i imagine that as old a model as that phone looked to be, it would not have a lot of storage space. but if duane did not store a whole lot of info (numbers, calls, texts, etc), then this could actually work to retrieve info if it's legit. i am skeptical about these types of things. this wasn't like some kinda infommercial, was it?

[lorettalockhorn]

No, actually, it's the product from FD's 4:32pm link.

[guppie]

Originally Posted by lorettalockhorn

No, actually, it's the product from FD's 4:32pm link.

i was joking about the infommercial, but i am a bit skeptical of these things that claim to do what's never been done. guess i'm old school. wonder if duane still has the phone.

[FDInLaw]

Originally Posted by ifIwereU

don't forget the panties were still inside the jeans that were turned inside out...as if they had been removed together at the same time....

How could that be forgotten. . . does anyone undress that way? Another sign of staging IMO.

[CSOKC]

Originally Posted by FDInLaw

How could that be forgotten. . . does anyone undress that way? Another sign of staging IMO.

I also think it could have been a way of humiliating her. Making her undress or something...if someone was in a hurry to get their clothes off I can see them removing their panties and pants at the same time.

[CSOKC]

Next is the knife. I reposted a link earlier that jonikay originally posted talking about how the cuts didn't look like they were made by a knife. This, and the fact that a knife was found on the kitchen counter is all that I really know.

[CSOKC]

Originally Posted by CSOKC

Next is the knife. I reposted a link earlier that jonikay originally posted talking about how the cuts didn't look like they were made by a knife. This, and the fact that a knife was found on the kitchen counter is all that I really know.

jonikay
Member Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 355


burn pile . . .

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You're right, lo. There is probably a handful of relevant evidence sitting in a burn pile somewhere (dover, perhaps . . . that was a joke . . . sort of) with such things as the door stick, the cell battery, the actual condom (although I think the condom as a whole was just planted evidence), and possibly another weapon. Of course, I believe that the lamp base was the primary weapon used in the attack. I also believe that the possible other weapon is unconventional. It was probably something that was already sitting in the apartment, something small that was easy to carry out along with the other stuff. I assume, due to what the coroner stated about the autopsy and what I remember reading, that the cut through her throat was probably not even close to being consistent with a knife, or they never would have said that they didn't think it was a knife. And, for all we know, it may be sharp force trauma with a slash in our minds, but more of a gash to the experts.


Here is that post.

[FDInLaw]

Yesterday I did quite a bit of reading. . . didn't find much about the knife. I don't think Nona's blood was found on the knife found on the counter IIRC. Will have to dig some more. . .

[jonikay]

Ok . . . this could help. Just NOW researching through my notes. The defense in opening statements stated that the knife was moved during the primary investigation and could be found in different areas according to the pics taken at crime scene.

[jonikay]

So now we see that the defense has stated that during the initial crime scene analysis:
The cell phone was moved and placed on the table
Knife moved
Lampshade moved
This is all taken from defense opening statements and has been stated based on different placements of objects in different crime scene photos

[ifIwereU]

Originally Posted by CSOKC

jonikay
Member Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 355


burn pile . . .

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You're right, lo. There is probably a handful of relevant evidence sitting in a burn pile somewhere (dover, perhaps . . . that was a joke . . . sort of) with such things as the door stick, the cell battery, the actual condom (although I think the condom as a whole was just planted evidence), and possibly another weapon. Of course, I believe that the lamp base was the primary weapon used in the attack. I also believe that the possible other weapon is unconventional. It was probably something that was already sitting in the apartment, something small that was easy to carry out along with the other stuff. I assume, due to what the coroner stated about the autopsy and what I remember reading, that the cut through her throat was probably not even close to being consistent with a knife, or they never would have said that they didn't think it was a knife. And, for all we know, it may be sharp force trauma with a slash in our minds, but more of a gash to the experts.


Here is that post.

I don't think the ME said "it wasn't a knife" I think he felt it was the serrated knife that was recovered from the kitchen near the condom...and no blood was found on that knife.....

[ifIwereU]

Originally Posted by jonikay

So now we see that the defense has stated that during the initial crime scene analysis:
The cell phone was moved and placed on the table
Knife moved
Lampshade moved
This is all taken from defense opening statements and has been stated based on different placements of objects in different crime scene photos

just for clarication....there were photos taken by Frost and some taken by the coroner some time after Frost's initial pics

[jonikay]

Whenever they were taken, objects from the crime scene were moved and evidence was tampered with before it was supposed to be and without gloves. This was testified to. Based on all these flubs, it would be difficult for anyone to be convicted of this murder. I believe this was why KJ was acquitted. It became apparent that the rpd was not thorough and was careless during the crime scene analysis. What a joke this was and what a shame.

[FDInLaw]

Originally Posted by ifIwereU

I don't think the ME said "it wasn't a knife" I think he felt it was the serrated knife that was recovered from the kitchen near the condom...and no blood was found on that knife.....

"Was" or "wasn't"???

[ifIwereU]

Originally Posted by FDInLaw

"Was" or "wasn't"???

glad you caught that.....WAS NOT the knife....I almost lost some reputation points on that flub

[FDInLaw]

Originally Posted by ifIwereU

glad you caught that.....WAS NOT the knife....I almost lost some reputation points on that flub

That there is a flub if I ever saw!

I'm still scatching my head over the "boots" found at Marva's. Were you there the day this was mentioned?

[ifIwereU]

Originally Posted by FDInLaw

That there is a flub if I ever saw!

I'm still scatching my head over the "boots" found at Marva's. Were you there the day this was mentioned?

I think Frost was the one who explained they were not connected to jones but RPD did called by someone at Marva about some bloody "tennis shoes" and they were sent for testing...I never heard the part about animal blood. I might have missed that though....

[CSOKC]

Originally Posted by ifIwereU

I think Frost was the one who explained they were not connected to jones but RPD did called by someone at Marva about some bloody "tennis shoes" and they were sent for testing...I never heard the part about animal blood. I might have missed that though....

Thank you for your information on this.

Next are the blood spots. I forgot about the blood on the blinds, plus there is the blood on the oven, the carpet and on the light switch.

I still don't know if the light switch was in the kitchen or near the kitchen.

[ifIwereU]

Originally Posted by CSOKC

Thank you for your information on this.

Next are the blood spots. I forgot about the blood on the blinds, plus there is the blood on the oven, the carpet and on the light switch.

I still don't know if the light switch was in the kitchen or near the kitchen.

my recollection of the blood near the light switch was it was near the front entry door close to a hanging key rack, where Nona's keys were found hanging...that apartment was a typical townhouse style apt......the entry door, from the outside, led into a hallway with the stairs going up on the left and there was a door on the right that led into the kitchen area..the hallway itself was about 20 or so feet and went straight into the living room...RPD did a good job of photographing the scene...
there was also a "blood swipe" on the wall near the stairs

[CSOKC]

Originally Posted by ifIwereU

my recollection of the blood near the light switch was it was near the front entry door close to a hanging key rack, where Nona's keys were found hanging...that apartment was a typical townhouse style apt......the entry door, from the outside, led into a hallway with the stairs going up on the left and there was a door on the right that led into the kitchen area..the hallway itself was about 20 or so feet and went straight into the living room...RPD did a good job of photographing the scene...
there was also a "blood swipe" on the wall near the stairs

It's a little strange that blood starts near the front door and continues in the hallway near the stairs, then there is also blood in the kitchen. It seems like it would make more sense if there was blood near the front door, in the hallway and also in the living room. But I don't see how blood got into the kitchen. Maybe Nona was trying to get away from her attacker and ran into the kitchen? I don't know...it's all very sad.

[jonikay]

Originally Posted by FDInLaw

That there is a flub if I ever saw!

I'm still scatching my head over the "boots" found at Marva's. Were you there the day this was mentioned?

I was. Boots with blood on them were retrieved from Marva, along with some other things that KJ was asked to drop off by his mom. The boots were tested and the blood on them was found to be animal blood. The boots were his dad's and they were used to go hunting with. Either that or he kicked a cat or something (sorry, I'm in a joking mood.) The defense thought it funny that they contributed a large part of the investigation to the boots that did not yield any real results for the prosecution.

[lorettalockhorn]

Originally Posted by CSOKC

It's a little strange that blood starts near the front door and continues in the hallway near the stairs, then there is also blood in the kitchen. It seems like it would make more sense if there was blood near the front door, in the hallway and also in the living room. But I don't see how blood got into the kitchen. Maybe Nona was trying to get away from her attacker and ran into the kitchen? I don't know...it's all very sad.

Could the blood in the hallway been the result of KJ hitting the wall while the officer (Edgin, correction) stood with him?

From FD's post this morning in the main thread:

Sgt. Tracy Edgin, the second RPD officer to arrive on the scene on the night of Dirksmeyer’s murder, testified he observed officer Larry Beyette coming down the stairs of Dirksmeyer’s apartment when he entered, noting of Jones that “his face and his hands and his arms were covered in a red substance that I believe to be blood.” He waited with Jones in the area of the stairs for approximately 15 minutes while others secured the crime scene, according to his testimony, during which time Jones asked if Dirksmeyer was dead and told Edgin he planned to ask Dirksmeyer to marry him that night. Jones kicked and hit the wall with his fist at one point, Edgin testified, although he did stop when Edgin requested he do so.
He also testified Jones told him after receiving a text message from Dirksmeyer that morning, he tried to call her “later in the day” but “she would not answer.”

http://www.couriernews.com/archived_...=kevin%20jones

[FDInLaw]

Originally Posted by lorettalockhorn

Could the blood in the hallway been the result of KJ hitting the wall while the officer (Edgin, correction) stood with him?

From FD's post this morning in the main thread:

Sgt. Tracy Edgin, the second RPD officer to arrive on the scene on the night of Dirksmeyer’s murder, testified he observed officer Larry Beyette coming down the stairs of Dirksmeyer’s apartment when he entered, noting of Jones that “his face and his hands and his arms were covered in a red substance that I believe to be blood.” He waited with Jones in the area of the stairs for approximately 15 minutes while others secured the crime scene, according to his testimony, during which time Jones asked if Dirksmeyer was dead and told Edgin he planned to ask Dirksmeyer to marry him that night. Jones kicked and hit the wall with his fist at one point, Edgin testified, although he did stop when Edgin requested he do so.
He also testified Jones told him after receiving a text message from Dirksmeyer that morning, he tried to call her “later in the day” but “she would not answer.”

http://www.couriernews.com/archived_...=kevin%20jones

Great question! That kid was all over the apartment.