Was Andrea Yates really insane when she killed her kids?

[taylor63]

I was wondering what everyone's opinion on this is? Because I have never really decided what I think. In one way,I think she had to be out of her mind,to do what she did because it was just so horrific, especially with the last little boy chasing him then dragging him in the tub, and drowning him in the urine and feces of his siblings.

On the other hand,I wonder if she really was insane, how could she have planned out things the way she did, and waited for her husband to leave, and locked the doors to her home? Then calmy called 911 and told them what she did? This case has haunted me more than any other crime case,but unlike most people I have not really come down on one side either way. What is everyone opinions on this horrible tragedy?

[cookiewench]

Yes; she was definitely insane. She had a long history of delusions, commitments to hospitals, etc.

Acoording to everyone who'd known her, she'd been an excellent, involved, loving mother.

A person can be psychotic, know what they are doing is wrong legally, and yet that delusion is so strong that they have to follow it, regardless. She actually believed that by killing her children she was "saving" them from Satan.

She didn't try to cover up the crime or claim that someone had broken into her house and killed her children. She didn't even try to escape punishment.

I have sympathy for Andrea Yates. When she finally became (or becomes, as I have no idea what her condition is at present) stabilized by medication, she'll have to live with the knowledge of what she did while insane for the rest of her life.

Her husband really let her down. He let those kids down, too. She had been having problems with psychosis for years, yet having all those children was more important to him than his wife's mental health.

JMHO

[poodle]

I think her religion messed up her mind. JMO

[SaraSidle]

Andrea had post partum depression after the birth of each child and it developed into a psychosis that her husband completely ignored in the time they were married. She is not responsible nor is her religion. Just a very neglectful husband in denial She should have been on medication years ago.

[poodle]

Originally Posted by SaraSidle

Andrea had post partum depression after the birth of each child and it developed into a psychosis that her husband completely ignored in the time they were married. She is not responsible nor is her religion. Just a very neglectful husband in denial She should have been on medication years ago.

I agree with what you have stated, but I do believe that this holy rolller that she was being adviced by was corrupting her mind and her clear thinking. This religion/holy roller mentality caused Andrea to misunderstand herself and her true responsibilities of being a mother who would never harm her children for the sins of the parents. JMO

[poodle]

http://www.apologeticsindex.org/news2/an020123-09.html

[poodle]

http://www.jonathantweet.com/jotreligionyates.html

[lilmiss1960]

No, I don't think she was insane. I think she knew exactly what she was doing. The fact that some of those children had to have struggled against her should have been enough to snap her out of it and made her stop, but she didn't. She systematically drowned each one of them.
If they wanted to find her insane, fine. But as soon as she was deemed sane, she would have been sent to prison to serve her sentence. I also feel her husband had some responsibilty too. He was told, no more babies until your wife is stable mentally. Either he uses protection or she get's her tubes tide, if she suffered from post partum depression after each baby. I don't think it was with each baby though, I think it was after she had the second to the last baby the doctor told her husband she shouldn't have any more kids.
Didn't he get remarried? Did him and his new wife have kids and if so, how many?
Look at how many mom's are now coping what Andrea Yates had done? They kill their children, call their husband's and/or 911 to tell them they just drowned their children. How many of them are now using the post partum depression, thinking that they will get a month's rest in a cushy psych ward?
Andrea was allowed to go on outings; movies, shopping and so on. Her poor babies sure weren't having a good time.
None of them will grow up, finish school, go on dates, go to college, get married or have children of their own. I don't believe Yates was punished enough at all. A few years in prison, a month in the psych ward and she's cured? I don't think so. She certainly put the weight on while in prison.
I'm sure she felt over whelmed, but didn't she have family and/or friends she could have called before she murdered them?
IMO, murder is murder. We have plenty of people in prisons who suffer from some form psychosis or another.

[SaraSidle]

you know I have no links but I worked with psychotics for 15 years. when they think they have to kill someone there is not a choice or right or wrong. And after they do this terrible thing and get put on medication they feel guilt and some psychosis the rest of their life no matter drugs or counseling and can never be normal. It is very sad. I can only describe it as such a different kind of thought process that is inconceivable to most sane people. and as I stated earlier there was mention that she had post partum depression after each child which can lead to psychosis. I have no links but this was not a normal act please...............

[lilmiss1960]

Sara, what makes her sane is the fact that she planned it. It wasn't a spur of the moment kind of thing. She waited until her husband left for work and then she LOCKED the doors, preventing anyone from coming and interrupting her if anyone came to the door and heard her children screaming and yelling in fear.
She systematically drowned each one of them, one by one. These children had to have struggled against her, so IF she was having a psychotic moment, that alone should have snapped her out of it.
If you are going to have a psychotic break down, you plan ahead of time what you are going to do and how you are going to do it.
IIRC, she had been diagnosed with postpartum depression before so she most certainly would have known what was going on with her and she could have called someone for help, at the very least, she could have called 911 and told them she was suffering from postpartum depression and felt like she was going to arm the children, or she could have called her husband at work and told him if he doesn't come home immediately, she was going to kill the children or what about calling a help line?
She had lots of options she could have done other than drown each of her children one by one.
Maybe her reason was she simply didn't want to be a mom anymore.

[SaraSidle]

Sorry but a psychotic break is not something you can put into a box and label it......She has clearly stated ever since she started having children that she had post partum depression and her lovely husband never helped. I wish we could make sense of the whole thing but we will never be able to. Can't get inside that mind but it thinks very differently than you do. I have worked with women who had that psychotic episode and she will never heal if that makes you feel better.

[enlightenme]

Originally Posted by SaraSidle

Sorry but a psychotic break is not something you can put into a box and label it......She has clearly stated ever since she started having children that she had post partum depression and her lovely husband never helped. I wish we could make sense of the whole thing but we will never be able to. Can't get inside that mind but it thinks very differently than you do. I have worked with women who had that psychotic episode and she will never heal if that makes you feel better.

She had 5 children in less than 7 years. Basically she was almost continually pregnant for 7 years. She also home schooled the children so she never got a break. Her husband got them into a strict religious cult of the fire & brimstone type. It preached that the children's salvation was mostly dependant on the mother. Rusty shares some of the blame, IMO.

Her husband stated afterwards that she was in an almost trance like mood for weeks before the murders. I do think that she was insane at the time and believed that the children were better off without her as a mother, that she was sending them to heaven.

It's heartbreaking but I do have more sympathy for her than other mothers I have heard about, i.e. Susan Smith and the like.

I don't think she should EVER have any more children and perhaps should never get out of the mental hospital.

[SaraSidle]

Originally Posted by enlightenme

She had 5 children in less than 7 years. Basically she was almost continually pregnant for 7 years. She also home schooled the children so she never got a break. Her husband got them into a strict religious cult of the fire & brimstone type. It preached that the children's salvation was mostly dependant on the mother. Rusty shares some of the blame, IMO.

Her husband stated afterwards that she was in an almost trance like mood for weeks before the murders. I do think that she was insane at the time and believed that the children were better off without her as a mother, that she was sending them to heaven.

It's heartbreaking but I do have more sympathy for her than other mothers I have heard about, i.e. Susan Smith and the like.

I don't think she should EVER have any more children and perhaps should never get out of the mental hospital.

Enlightenme I agree 100%

[LindaA]

The ability to plan does not qualify a person as being sane. I believe this woman was emotionally disturbed to the point of insanity and was not responsible for her acts.

If the ability to make plans makes one sane, the Hitler was the sanest person I ever heard of.

[Drumbum]

I believe she should die for her crimes. She is sane and she murdered her children.

[VeXis]

I do think to a certain degree she was "crazy" but regardless she was in complete knowledge of what she did and I believe she deserves to die. I was watching a documentary on this a while back and never even thought but her husbands mother was my english teacher back just a bit before this happened! I cant imagine the anger her husband is feeling. I dont know how he kept from killing her himself.

[SaraSidle]

Originally Posted by VeXis

I do think to a certain degree she was "crazy" but regardless she was in complete knowledge of what she did and I believe she deserves to die. I was watching a documentary on this a while back and never even thought but her husbands mother was my english teacher back just a bit before this happened! I cant imagine the anger her husband is feeling. I dont know how he kept from killing her himself.

Vexus and Drumbum, Andrea suffered severe post partum depression after each pregnancy. Her husband did nothing to help her except get her pregnant again. I do not have the sources for this at my fingertips but I worked with psychotics before and she was in a severe psychotic break. I have worked with a few mothers who have killed their babies for the same reason and they never get over the psychosis no matter what drugs are given to them. Yes it is tragic but it happens. imo

[Evening2]

Originally Posted by SaraSidle

Vexus and Drumbum, Andrea suffered severe post partum depression after each pregnancy. Her husband did nothing to help her except get her pregnant again. I do not have the sources for this at my fingertips but I worked with psychotics before and she was in a severe psychotic break. I have worked with a few mothers who have killed their babies for the same reason and they never get over the psychosis no matter what drugs are given to them. Yes it is tragic but it happens. imo

Sara, LindaA, and Enlightenme, your posts on this thread are excellent and I agree with all of you completely (in this particular case)!

[SaraSidle]

Originally Posted by Evening2

Sara, LindaA, and Enlightenme, your posts on this thread are excellent and I agree with all of you completely (in this particular case)!

Thanks Evening2 I appreciate that. Happy Friday to you.

[lodfafner]

Why does is matter if she was sane of not?

If she could do it once she can do it again.

[SaraSidle]

Originally Posted by lodfafner

Why does is matter if she was sane of not?

If she could do it once she can do it again.

I think the point is she was originally sentenced to prison until the authorities figured out she had a psychotic breakdown per her in the hospital and put her on meds. She will need the meds for the rest of her life and will probably be in the hospital that long.

[VeXis]

I still think she should be put to death for what she did. This country has become WAY to PC and WAY to protective of murderers rights to the point that there isnt much of a deterrent to some people.

[SaraSidle]

Originally Posted by VeXis

I still think she should be put to death for what she did. This country has become WAY to PC and WAY to protective of murderers rights to the point that there isnt much of a deterrent to some people.

Good thing not everyone feels that way. Andrea had no control. She had an illness and she needs a hospital and medication. She was thinking very differently from the way you and I think. Mental illness does not get the death penalty. I am sorry you feel that way. IMO

[Serial Killer X]

Im not saying its justifiable but she actually believed that her kid's were going to Hell and by killing them she was saving them from Hell. It's a severe mental illness and i disagree about her getting the death penalty. She should be locked in a mental hospital for the rest of her day's. If she had killed the Kid's and she wasn't actually insane. Then the Death Penalty Would of been on the table in my opinion. Im not saying it's justifiable her killing her kid's because she believed that were going to hell. But she actually did believe that they were going to go to Hell, and the only way they could be saved is if she killed All 5 of them. I feel sorry for the People that think she should of gotten the Death Penalty . She wasn't of a sane mind when she commited these atrocity's she wasn't thinking like you and I.

First Post Yay!

[SaraSidle]

Originally Posted by Serial Killer X

Im not saying its justifiable but she actually believed that her kid's were going to Hell and by killing them she was saving them from Hell. It's a severe mental illness and i disagree about her getting the death penalty. She should be locked in a mental hospital for the rest of her day's. If she had killed the Kid's and she wasn't actually insane. Then the Death Penalty Would of been on the table in my opinion. Im not saying it's justifiable her killing her kid's because she believed that were going to hell. But she actually did believe that they were going to go to Hell, and the only way they could be saved is if she killed All 5 of them. I feel sorry for the People that think she should of gotten the Death Penalty . She wasn't of a sane mind when she commited these atrocity's she wasn't thinking like you and I.

First Post Yay!

Excellent Post and welcome aboard!!!!!!

[Happy]

Originally Posted by SaraSidle

Good thing not everyone feels that way. Andrea had no control. She had an illness and she needs a hospital and medication. She was thinking very differently from the way you and I think. Mental illness does not get the death penalty. I am sorry you feel that way. IMO

Sara, great to see your intelligent posts again!!! Yes, she was psychotic. We have to have mercy for people like this. I think it is a myth that so many people "get away with murder." Just look at Texas and all the people being released from death row when new evidence was revealed. With DA's running for their office, it is just too politically advantagous for them to get a conviction.

[SaraSidle]

Originally Posted by Happy

Sara, great to see your intelligent posts again!!! Yes, she was psychotic. We have to have mercy for people like this. I think it is a myth that so many people "get away with murder." Just look at Texas and all the people being released from death row when new evidence was revealed. With DA's running for their office, it is just too politically advantagous for them to get a conviction.

Good to see you posting again Happy. I thought we lost you!!! You make some excellent points that I have been wondering about lately

[Evening2]

Originally Posted by SaraSidle

Good to see you posting again Happy. I thought we lost you!!! You make some excellent points that I have been wondering about lately

Just a quick stop-over to welcome Happy and SeriakKillerX aboard. I'm enjoying your opinions. I SO agree with what you've said regarding Andrea Yates.

[grneyes]

Originally Posted by LindaA

The ability to plan does not qualify a person as being sane. I believe this woman was emotionally disturbed to the point of insanity and was not responsible for her acts.

If the ability to make plans makes one sane, the Hitler was the sanest person I ever heard of.

I agree with Linda on this. Insane people can plan things and there is really no time limit on how long a psychotic break can last. This is one of the few cases of this sort where I actually do believe the parent was insane at the time.

[samanthajane13]

In Andrea Yates' case, she already had a TON of emotional baggage, had STOPPED TAKING HER PSYCH MEDS TO GET PREGNANT YET AGAIN, was living in a tiny tin-can of a trailer for years, then the stress of moving into a new home, little or no support by her husband in caring for the kids, her hubby also dictating that they were going to follow the teachings of a religious zealot...Think David Koresh, Charlie Manson, L. Ron Whack-Job, or Heaven's Gate...

WHO WOULDN'T CRACK UP????

I blame the HUBBY for putting Andrea AND the kids in that place where she had to be feeling like she couldn't cope.

You may not agree that hubby should be serving time, but you have to admit-it's a VERY distinct possiblity that without all those stressors, the babies would ALL be alive, and Andrea wouldn't have snapped."

And he controlled EVERYTHING-until the day she decied she couldn't do it any more. And then she picked a time when she knew nobody would be around to stop her. I don't really see it as being pre-meditated. She just knew her mom was coming over, and didn't want her to stop what she knew (in her sick mind) she had to do...

And I really don't see that a lot has changed in o'le Rusty's life, except that he no longer has Andrea or the first batch of babies.

Control freaks DO NOT change their ways of working.

I see him as being AT LEAST 50% responsible for BOTH of those facts. Andrea was a few cards short of a deck before she encountered him, and he KNEW he was in the driver's seat. I'm not saying she's completely innocent, but she was also NUTS!!!

A while back, there was a show-I believe on TruTV or A & E-that featured the Yates' case. It showed the step-by-step down-ward spiral of Andrea's mental health, precipitated by the closely spaced pregnancies, the post-partum depression escalating into psychosis, the move from the house to the trailer and then BACK AGAIN, the home-schooling of the kids, Rusty's lack of assistance with the family, the religious fanaticism...in other words...EVERYTHING that contributed to the murder of those precious babies.

Okay-here's part of the scoop on PPD.

When Katey was about 6 weeks old, I was VERY ILL. I got a RAGING Uppper Respiratory Infection...the worst I ever had before or since.

6 weeks earlier, I had delivered her in less than 3 hours, and 15 minutes later, I was sitting CROSS-LEGGED on my bed, making baby announcement calls.

I had NO IDEA how things could go from Heaven to Hell in 6 weeks...

I'm asthmatic, and I have a LOAD of allergies.

I was also breast-feeding Katey, so I still had all those LOVELY hormones raising hell in my body.

I was hospitalized for 10 days.

I was placed on MASSIVE doses prednisone (ANOTHER hormone) both orally and intervenously. In 10 days, I went from 110 pounds to 144 pounds-the same weight I was the day Katey was delivered. Steroids make you RAVENOUSLY HUNGRY, and when they wean you off of them, EVERY JOINT IN YOUR BODY SCREAMS IN PAIN!!!!

Because of the fact that I was on Predisone, I couldn't breast-feed Katey, and had to DUMP the milk down the toilet, and yet I kept pumping to keep my milk supply up, because Katey was VERY small-6 pounds and 4 oz. so she really NEEDED the breast milk. I was also "eating for two" because of the breast-feeding-you need extra nutrition to make all that milk... Every time I had to pump and dump, I cried like a baby.

I couldn't even see her except in the hospital cafeteria, because she was a small new-born, and they didn't want her on the medical floor with all the germs. I can't think of a BETTER reason to cry-can you???

Plus, I couldn't be with the rest of my family except for their visits. I can't think of ANY other time when a new mom needs her family and significant other MORE than when she's SICK and DEPRESSED!!!

But I spent most of my time crying alone in the hospital...

Can you say Post-Partum Depression??

Okay...having shared one of the bleakest times of my life, I can obviously say that I GOT PAST IT. I'm not writing these posts from the library at Elmira Prison. I didn't kill anyone-didn't even threaten harm to anyone.

But I can honestly say that I can understand how it can escalate. And I didn't go on to Post-Partum Psychosis...THANK GOD!!!!

I got off the steroids, Katey was able to nurse again-with a lot of persistance on my part and a lot of stubbornness on hers, I lost the extra weight, the depression ran it's course as my life got back to normal, and Jennifer is 29, and Katey is 19. Nobody died, but for a while, I REALLY WANTED TO...I hurt THAT BAD-physically AND emotionally.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that between the hormones-WHICH RAGE even during a normal pregnancy in a perfectly healthy woman-and the CIRCUMSTANCES IN HER FAMILY LIFE-are enough to send MANY women around the bend. Not to mention if she's sick...

I say the "man" should be hung...and it not, then he should be neutered so that he can't inflict his own brand of crazy on yet another (possibly also emotionally-fragile) soul.

NOBODY ELSE SHOULD SUFFER!!!

Nail him up by his *****.

[carrie222]

I dont think that anyone can possbily understand what she was going through. I trulely believe she had to have a mental health problem in order to do something like that to your children. i know from my own experences that postpartum depression is something to take seriously. I had my three daughters all within a year and a half time of each ohter. my youngest daughter is 5 months old and im having a hard dealing with certain emotions sometimes. i almost dont know how to feel not being prego. you have to deal with so many different changes in horomones and to do it back and forth so many times back and forth can make it harder. I am able to deal with it because of the support i get from my family and friends but without that i think i would be lost. So i can understand how without her husbands support how she could come to that breaking point although by any means to i believe that it was right.

[Serial Killer X]

Originally Posted by carrie222

I dont think that anyone can possbily understand what she was going through. I trulely believe she had to have a mental health problem in order to do something like that to your children. i know from my own experences that postpartum depression is something to take seriously. I had my three daughters all within a year and a half time of each ohter. my youngest daughter is 5 months old and im having a hard dealing with certain emotions sometimes. i almost dont know how to feel not being prego. you have to deal with so many different changes in horomones and to do it back and forth so many times back and forth can make it harder. I am able to deal with it because of the support i get from my family and friends but without that i think i would be lost. So i can understand how without her husbands support how she could come to that breaking point although by any means to i believe that it was right.

She Didn't Have A Normal Life Then Just Crack From All The Stress She Said A Mental illness And She Killed Her Kid's To "Save" Them.

SKX

[onalaska]

I do believe that her hubby should have to accept some responsibility, he knew she was ill, and still she cont. to have children. He has happily remarried and has another child. Andrea is bearing all the burden. It doesn't seem fair......he just went on his merry little way.

[SaraSidle]

Originally Posted by onalaska

I do believe that her hubby should have to accept some responsibility, he knew she was ill, and still she cont. to have children. He has happily remarried and has another child. Andrea is bearing all the burden. It doesn't seem fair......he just went on his merry little way.

ITA onalska

[The R]

Ms. Yates is mentioned in a book I have about serial and mass murderers; a required text in a class I'm taking.

Her being insane is pretty debatable IMO. For me the answer might hinge on just how long a person can stay in a psychotic state. She certainly appeared to suffer from post partum depression, but consider her actions.

She drowned all five of her kids - one at a time. After she systematically drowned her children she laid all of them (except the oldest) out on a bed, wrapped in sheets like burial cloths.

She drowned the younger ones first. Her oldest - seven - actually found her in the process of drowning the baby. She ordered him into the tub, but he ran. She caught him and brought him back to the tub for drowning.

Immediately after the killings, she called the police for assistance. She also called her husband at work telling him to come home, that she'd done something bad to the children.

I'm not sure you can suggest she didn't know right from wrong, but I'm certainly not the expert. I just believe there is room for doubt from what I've read.

ALLMO,
R

[Spanishlady]

I believe that her mental illness is what caused her to kill her children. Whether she was insane at the time, I don't know because I am not a psychologist, and I was not in her shoes. But she had to be mentally ill to commit such a hideous crime.

[Serial Killer X]

Originally Posted by The R

Immediately after the killings, she called the police for assistance. She also called her husband at work telling him to come home, that she'd done something bad to the children.

ALLMO,
R

Hey Mr R Yer That Would Of Been Horrible For Her 7 Year Old And Yeah I Think She Was Quite Insane And The Husband Should Take Some Responsiblity.

SKX

[The R]

Originally Posted by Serial Killer X

Hey Mr R Yer That Would Of Been Horrible For Her 7 Year Old And Yeah I Think She Was Quite Insane And The Husband Should Take Some Responsiblity.

SKX

OK Mr/Ms SKX!

But do you think she knew right from wrong? According to Texas law, in order to be found not guilty by reason of insanity, you must show in court that she didn't know right from wrong. Do her actions show that?

Not in my opinion.

Maybe the hubby should shoulder some responsibility, maybe also the doctor that took her off the anti-psychotic drug (shortly before the killings) should too.....and of course let's not forget that goofball evangelist that preached to them his message of responsibility through propogation of the world.

ALLMO,
R

[SaraSidle]

Originally Posted by The R

OK Mr/Ms SKX!

But do you think she knew right from wrong? According to Texas law, in order to be found not guilty by reason of insanity, you must show in court that she didn't know right from wrong. Do her actions show that?

Not in my opinion.

Maybe the hubby should shoulder some responsibility, maybe also the doctor that took her off the anti-psychotic drug (shortly before the killings) should too.....and of course let's not forget that goofball evangelist that preached to them his message of responsibility through propogation of the world.

ALLMO,
R

Actually R at the time of the murders I do not believe she knew the difference. She was too psychotic. I have worked with mothers who
kill their children from post partum depression. I have never seen them get better no matter how many psychtropic medications they are on because of their actions. She was sick very sick and her husband and doctor let her down. The only place for her right now is the mental hospital for help. Psychotic thinking is so different. It is very difficult for mentally healthy people to understand. Research has shown it has a lot to do with the nerve synapses in the brain shooting off in chaos. Sorry this is so long. IMO

[Serial Killer X]

Originally Posted by The R

OK Mr/Ms SKX!

But do you think she knew right from wrong? According to Texas law, in order to be found not guilty by reason of insanity, you must show in court that she didn't know right from wrong. Do her actions show that?

Not in my opinion.

Maybe the hubby should shoulder some responsibility, maybe also the doctor that took her off the anti-psychotic drug (shortly before the killings) should too.....and of course let's not forget that goofball evangelist that preached to them his message of responsibility through propogation of the world.

ALLMO,
R

Lol It's Mr SKX Thank You But Your Missing The Point Here Mrs R I Do Believe She Was Insane And She Didn't Know Right From Wrong. He Should Take Some Responsibility And So Should The Doctor.

SKX