Discussion Thread 2007 (Part 6)

[Chocoholic]

While our admins and moderators are cleaning up, here's number 6.

Freshly painted walls, new carpet, furniture all cleaned and the bathrooms have been redone.

The kitchen is fully stocked, feel free to have a cup of coffee, tea, juice or whatever other libation would serve you well. Let's discuss the case of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.

[fairmaiden]

O/T .... Boy, I am SUCH a homer .... lol. I watched the Bills-Patriots game to the bitter end .... While I'm a dedicated BILLS fan .... the Patriots are the "elite" of the league ....

Luke .... I believe it was you, who mentioned something in the previous thread about the possibility of Natalee being in drug rehab. without Beth knowing about it. I would say that would be virtually impossible. Sadly, being familiar with drug rehabs .... they usually encourage heavy family involvement .... family encouragement, etc. Plus the fact, they usually involve a person being there for quite a period of time. I would think she SHORTEST time one could be there would be 30 days .... some last much longer .... at least a year.

The first thing I thought about when I heard about this, and I DO realize it's a rumor, was .... IF it's true .... it IS inconceivable that Natalee would be sent on this type of trip, especially without any supervision.

JMO

[Chocoholic]

I know this is speculation, but is it possible that she was in detox for a few days or a week. This, at least where I live, would not require any involvement of family and as a matter of fact would be considered patient confidentiality if she were 16 or older.

Just wondering

[fairmaiden]

Originally Posted by Chocoholic

I know this is speculation, but is it possible that she was in detox for a few days or a week. This, at least where I live, would not require any involvement of family and as a matter of fact would be considered patient confidentiality if she were 16 or older.

Just wondering

Hmmmmm, Choco .... I'm really not sure about that. I would think "detox" would be different than rehab. I suppose it's a possibility. "Detox" is just that (detoxification). I'm thinking IF this involved Natalee, she was considered a minor in Alabama, so I'm not sure how that would work.

I definitely know, in rehab, in NY State anyway .... they definitely encourage family involvement/support, etc. Detox COULD be a different thing though.

JMO

[Chocoholic]

Originally Posted by fairmaiden

Hmmmmm, Choco .... I'm really not sure about that. I would think "detox" would be different than rehab. I suppose it's a possibility. "Detox" is just that (detoxification). I'm thinking IF this involved Natalee, she was considered a minor in Alabama, so I'm not sure how that would work.

I definitely know, in rehab, in NY State anyway .... they definitely encourage family involvement/support, etc. Detox COULD be a different thing though.

JMO

Detox may or may not involve therapists, depending on how busy they are. Detox may or may not require extra medication to detox. Detox because, of doctor/patient confidentiality laws in the US may or may not require the parents to be notified. I do not know, somebody with greater legal knowledge, please feel free to advise.

From what I understand though of US law is that if a person is 18 or older, and the person wishes to remain unknown and anonymous to even his/her parents, and the even if FBI knows who and where this person is even if on the "missing persons" list, the FBI is under the obligation to ensure that that person's identity and location is not compromised.

Something about privacy laws, don't know too much about it.... Anybody?

[JustMyOpinion]

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/tr...1/islands.html

National Geographic, Destinations Rated: Islands
Text by Jonathan B. Tourtellot
SNIP:Guide to the Scores:
0-25: Catastrophic: all criteria very negative, outlook grim.
26-49: In serious trouble.
50-65: In moderate trouble: all criteria medium-negative or a mix of negatives and positives.
66-85: Minor difficulties.
86-95: Authentic, unspoiled, and likely to remain so.
96-100: Enhanced

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/tr...ibbean.html#99
SNIP:Aruba
Score: 48
"Massive development of high-rise hotels on the west end results in serious traffic congestion. Also heavy dependence for hotel workers on expatriate labor. Cruise ships have resulted in a tacky downtown."

"The high-rise hotels lining Palm Beach are a good way of maximizing bodies on a beach while minimally impacting the island's interior. Vast majority of islanders are employed by tourism and know it's their bread and butter. The attitude towards visitors is genuinely warm and inviting. The Arikok National Park appears to be well-protected."

"Very little aesthetic appeal. The island has become almost exclusively a sand, sun, sea, and casino experience. Tourists are not educated on the ecological and/or historical elements of the destination."

"There's no 'there' there."

[Chocoholic]

Which is why it is illegal to drive any type of vehicle on the beaches without permission (which is what timmy miller and//or crew did) and it is illegal to dig up turtle nests (which is what timmy miller and/or crew are strongly suspected to have done).

I also doubt that draining that pond to find Natalee did anything to enhance the bird sanctuary.

No links available to my memory or opinion.

[fairmaiden]

Originally Posted by JustMyOpinion

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/tr...1/islands.html

National Geographic, Destinations Rated: Islands
Text by Jonathan B. Tourtellot
SNIP:Guide to the Scores:
0-25: Catastrophic: all criteria very negative, outlook grim.
26-49: In serious trouble.
50-65: In moderate trouble: all criteria medium-negative or a mix of negatives and positives.
66-85: Minor difficulties.
86-95: Authentic, unspoiled, and likely to remain so.
96-100: Enhanced

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/tr...ibbean.html#99
SNIP:Aruba
Score: 48
"Massive development of high-rise hotels on the west end results in serious traffic congestion. Also heavy dependence for hotel workers on expatriate labor. Cruise ships have resulted in a tacky downtown."

"The high-rise hotels lining Palm Beach are a good way of maximizing bodies on a beach while minimally impacting the island's interior. Vast majority of islanders are employed by tourism and know it's their bread and butter. The attitude towards visitors is genuinely warm and inviting. The Arikok National Park appears to be well-protected."

"Very little aesthetic appeal. The island has become almost exclusively a sand, sun, sea, and casino experience. Tourists are not educated on the ecological and/or historical elements of the destination."

"There's no 'there' there."

Interesting article, JMO. Definitely not surprising, to me anyway. Their bread and butter is tourism, and I think you find all or most of the negatives you see in Aruba in OTHER places .... probably even in the US. Just quickly looking through, I saw Cozumel - Grand Cayman - Jamaica -Roatan, Bay Islands - St. Martin, fall under the same "scoring category".

I see National Geographic didn't mention the "kidnap, murder and rape of Natalee Holloway" as being a detriment to people visiting Aruba. I wonder if the majority of people who actually travel there are interested in being educated on the ecological and/or historical elements of the destination ...?? I certainly doubt the graduates of MB were interested in it .... don't you ??

It is what it is, JMO .... a "tourist trap", IMO .... just like many other places. Since they are majorly impacted by tourism, that was one of the actions I criticized .... a call for a boycott, which had the potential of hurting many innocent people. Luckily, I don't believe it did.

JMO

[JustMyOpinion]

Originally Posted by fairmaiden

Their bread and butter is tourism, and I think you find all or most of the negatives you see in Aruba in OTHER places ....
JMO

I disagree that other Island destinations are reputed to be "the first independent State under Mafia control", JMO.
http://www.tni.org/detail_page.phtml...s_tblick_aruba
Or, play a "significant role as an offshore center for drug-related money laundering" JMO http://www.newswithviews.com/Kouri/jim9.htm

[fairmaiden]

Originally Posted by JustMyOpinion

I disagree that other Island destinations are reputed to be "the first independent State under Mafia control", JMO.
http://www.tni.org/detail_page.phtml...s_tblick_aruba
Or, play a "significant role as an offshore center for drug-related money laundering" JMO http://www.newswithviews.com/Kouri/jim9.htm

JMO .... As I have stated recently, I have never had the inclination to visit Aruba. Do you believe Aruba was researched at all, before deciding it would be the destination for the MB graduates ?? MB had apparently made this trip to Aruba available to their graduates for a few years before Natalee went. As I recall, it was Jug's son who had made the trip a couple of years before .... who, as I recall, specifically warned Beth about the easy availability of drugs, by those standing outside C&C's.

I believe Aruba was chosen, because the legal drinking age is 18 .... and MB was able to send their "minors" at home to a foreign country where they could have alcohol available to them, endlessly.

I'm not an advocate for Aruba .... but it apparently was where MB sent their graduates.

I wonder where they're sending their graduates now ??

JMO

[JustMyOpinion]

Originally Posted by fairmaiden

JMO .... As I have stated recently, I have never had the inclination to visit Aruba. Do you believe Aruba was researched at all, before deciding it would be the destination for the MB graduates ??

JMO

I don't know who decided on the destination or what kind of research was done prior to selecting it.

[terrysdoor]

Originally Posted by fairmaiden

JMO .... As I have stated recently, I have never had the inclination to visit Aruba. Do you believe Aruba was researched at all, before deciding it would be the destination for the MB graduates ?? MB had apparently made this trip to Aruba available to their graduates for a few years before Natalee went. As I recall, it was Jug's son who had made the trip a couple of years before .... who, as I recall, specifically warned Beth about the easy availability of drugs, by those standing outside C&C's.

I believe Aruba was chosen, because the legal drinking age is 18 .... and MB was able to send their "minors" at home to a foreign country where they could have alcohol available to them, endlessly.

I'm not an advocate for Aruba .... but it apparently was where MB sent their graduates.

I wonder where they're sending their graduates now ??

JMO

IIRC in her book Beth said Matt went to Puerto Rico so maybe that is where they go now IMO

[AMS80]

Originally Posted by fairmaiden

Hmmmmm, Choco .... I'm really not sure about that. I would think "detox" would be different than rehab. I suppose it's a possibility. "Detox" is just that (detoxification). I'm thinking IF this involved Natalee, she was considered a minor in Alabama, so I'm not sure how that would work.

I definitely know, in rehab, in NY State anyway .... they definitely encourage family involvement/support, etc. Detox COULD be a different thing though.

JMO

I have definitely just changed my opinion of Natalee...she is now a superhero in my eyes. Beautiful, fun-loving, successful academic by day...strung-out drug runner by night!

I admit I could be totally wrong about this, but how in the world did that girl do it? How was she in such bad shape that she needed rehab, yet managed to keep a 4.0 GPA, join the dance team, and go down a shame spiral so horrible without her family or friends knowing.

And I know Beth has made some mistakes, but for her or Jug to send a girl fresh out of rehab to Aruba on an all-drinking-vacation is a death wish. I can almost agree that Beth was trying to protect Natalee's image a little, but I doubt she hated her enough to send her on a wild trip post-rehab. Surely this rumor could easily be squashed?

And for that matter, do you really think Jug would spout family secrets to a taxi driver?

IMO.

[No Nic]

Originally Posted by AMS80

I have definitely just changed my opinion of Natalee...she is now a superhero in my eyes. Beautiful, fun-loving, successful academic by day...strung-out drug runner by night!

I admit I could be totally wrong about this, but how in the world did that girl do it? How was she in such bad shape that she needed rehab, yet managed to keep a 4.0 GPA, join the dance team, and go down a shame spiral so horrible without her family or friends knowing.

And I know Beth has made some mistakes, but for her or Jug to send a girl fresh out of rehab to Aruba on an all-drinking-vacation is a death wish. I can almost agree that Beth was trying to protect Natalee's image a little, but I doubt she hated her enough to send her on a wild trip post-rehab. Surely this rumor could easily be squashed?

And for that matter, do you really think Jug would spout family secrets to a taxi driver?

IMO.

Yep, they wanted to keep this all hush-hush, but tell a taxi driver ...oh...and tell C. Croes (another stranger) personal secrets. (Wanna takes bets that CC will be "revealing" these secrets soon, lol)

IMO, this case must have hurt Aruba's tourism much much more than anyone wants to admit, that is why we are hearing this multitude of rumor/trash regarding Natalee and her family.....deflect, deflect and blame, blame the missing girl and her family....save Aruba's reputation above all else. Most can see through these desperate (and failed) attempts. Like HiLife said yesterday, this too will fall into the Aruba rumor black hole with no substantiation/proof.

Fortunately all involved with this injustice will have to answer to a higher power one day.

imo

[Luke Davis]

Originally Posted by fairmaiden

O/T .... Boy, I am SUCH a homer .... lol. I watched the Bills-Patriots game to the bitter end .... While I'm a dedicated BILLS fan .... the Patriots are the "elite" of the league ....

Luke .... I believe it was you, who mentioned something in the previous thread about the possibility of Natalee being in drug rehab. without Beth knowing about it. I would say that would be virtually impossible. Sadly, being familiar with drug rehabs .... they usually encourage heavy family involvement .... family encouragement, etc. Plus the fact, they usually involve a person being there for quite a period of time. I would think she SHORTEST time one could be there would be 30 days .... some last much longer .... at least a year.

The first thing I thought about when I heard about this, and I DO realize it's a rumor, was .... IF it's true .... it IS inconceivable that Natalee would be sent on this type of trip, especially without any supervision.

JMO

Thanks fairmaiden. I don't have much experience in that area and none in Alabama. Should be easy to confirm then. My limited research did show there is out-patient care but maybe that is after the 30-day period.


MOO

[Luke Davis]

Originally Posted by JustMyOpinion

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/tr...1/islands.html

National Geographic, Destinations Rated: Islands
Text by Jonathan B. Tourtellot
SNIP:Guide to the Scores:
0-25: Catastrophic: all criteria very negative, outlook grim.
26-49: In serious trouble.
50-65: In moderate trouble: all criteria medium-negative or a mix of negatives and positives.
66-85: Minor difficulties.
86-95: Authentic, unspoiled, and likely to remain so.
96-100: Enhanced

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/tr...ibbean.html#99
SNIP:Aruba
Score: 48
"Massive development of high-rise hotels on the west end results in serious traffic congestion. Also heavy dependence for hotel workers on expatriate labor. Cruise ships have resulted in a tacky downtown."

"The high-rise hotels lining Palm Beach are a good way of maximizing bodies on a beach while minimally impacting the island's interior. Vast majority of islanders are employed by tourism and know it's their bread and butter. The attitude towards visitors is genuinely warm and inviting. The Arikok National Park appears to be well-protected."

"Very little aesthetic appeal. The island has become almost exclusively a sand, sun, sea, and casino experience. Tourists are not educated on the ecological and/or historical elements of the destination."

"There's no 'there' there."

Not a place I would want to send my daughter. MOO

[fairmaiden]

Originally Posted by AMS80

I have definitely just changed my opinion of Natalee...she is now a superhero in my eyes. Beautiful, fun-loving, successful academic by day...strung-out drug runner by night!

I admit I could be totally wrong about this, but how in the world did that girl do it? How was she in such bad shape that she needed rehab, yet managed to keep a 4.0 GPA, join the dance team, and go down a shame spiral so horrible without her family or friends knowing.

And I know Beth has made some mistakes, but for her or Jug to send a girl fresh out of rehab to Aruba on an all-drinking-vacation is a death wish. I can almost agree that Beth was trying to protect Natalee's image a little, but I doubt she hated her enough to send her on a wild trip post-rehab. Surely this rumor could easily be squashed?

And for that matter, do you really think Jug would spout family secrets to a taxi driver?

IMO.

AMS .... I don't have any idea if this rumor is true. I have prefaced it every time, by saying I KNOW it's a rumor.

To address your post. Having had experience, unfortunately, with drug rehabs .... I can tell you, many people who are in there .... are very bright, beautiful people .... some very talented, clever individuals. Very many of them come from very privileged backgrounds. It's not only the "down and out" who lose themselves in today's drug culture.

IF this rumor is true .... I'm sure her family DID know. I'm also sure her friends might have known. It's not something that's discussed openly .... I can tell you, there is most often some shame and embarrassment which goes along with it.

I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if some in Natalee's circle of friends were addicted to drugs. Drugs are insidious, and are found where you least expect them.

This is just my impression of Jug .... he seems to be the type of individual who might say something without thinking about it .... regretting it later.

All Just My Opinion

[Luke Davis]

Originally Posted by JustMyOpinion

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/tr...1/islands.html

National Geographic, Destinations Rated: Islands
Text by Jonathan B. Tourtellot
SNIP:Guide to the Scores:
0-25: Catastrophic: all criteria very negative, outlook grim.
26-49: In serious trouble.
50-65: In moderate trouble: all criteria medium-negative or a mix of negatives and positives.
66-85: Minor difficulties.
86-95: Authentic, unspoiled, and likely to remain so.
96-100: Enhanced

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/tr...ibbean.html#99
SNIP:Aruba
Score: 48
"Massive development of high-rise hotels on the west end results in serious traffic congestion. Also heavy dependence for hotel workers on expatriate labor. Cruise ships have resulted in a tacky downtown."

"The high-rise hotels lining Palm Beach are a good way of maximizing bodies on a beach while minimally impacting the island's interior. Vast majority of islanders are employed by tourism and know it's their bread and butter. The attitude towards visitors is genuinely warm and inviting. The Arikok National Park appears to be well-protected."

"Very little aesthetic appeal. The island has become almost exclusively a sand, sun, sea, and casino experience. Tourists are not educated on the ecological and/or historical elements of the destination."

"There's no 'there' there."

Thanks for the link, it is fascinating.

Oahu, Hawaii
Score: 46

[Luke Davis]

Originally Posted by JustMyOpinion

I disagree that other Island destinations are reputed to be "the first independent State under Mafia control", JMO.
http://www.tni.org/detail_page.phtml...s_tblick_aruba
Or, play a "significant role as an offshore center for drug-related money laundering" JMO http://www.newswithviews.com/Kouri/jim9.htm

Not exactly a great place to go for a naive young lady. Too many temptations. MOO

[fairmaiden]

Originally Posted by Luke Davis

Not exactly a great place to go for a naive young lady. Too many temptations. MOO

You are correct, Luke .... No doubt about it !!

JMO

[JustMyOpinion]

Originally Posted by Luke Davis

Not exactly a great place to go for a naive young lady. Too many temptations. MOO

You are suggesting Natalee would be tempted to join the Mafia or engage in money laundering?

[fairmaiden]

Originally Posted by No Nic

Yep, they wanted to keep this all hush-hush, but tell a taxi driver ...oh...and tell C. Croes (another stranger) personal secrets. (Wanna takes bets that CC will be "revealing" these secrets soon, lol)

IMO, this case must have hurt Aruba's tourism much much more than anyone wants to admit, that is why we are hearing this multitude of rumor/trash regarding Natalee and her family.....deflect, deflect and blame, blame the missing girl and her family....save Aruba's reputation above all else. Most can see through these desperate (and failed) attempts. Like HiLife said yesterday, this too will fall into the Aruba rumor black hole with no substantiation/proof.

Fortunately all involved with this injustice will have to answer to a higher power one day.

imo

No Nic .... I believe that IF Aruba's tourism was hurt by this case, it was hurt very minimally .... I believe anyone who goes to Aruba now, really gives very little thought to this case .... if any. You and I might place importance on this case, but when you talk about "most people", I believe that's gross exaggeration.

Did this RUMOR originate with someone from Aruba ??

JMO

[AMS80]

Originally Posted by fairmaiden

AMS .... I don't have any idea if this rumor is true. I have prefaced it every time, by saying I KNOW it's a rumor.

To address your post. Having had experience, unfortunately, with drug rehabs .... I can tell you, many people who are in there .... are very bright, beautiful people .... some very talented, clever individuals. Very many of them come from very privileged backgrounds. It's not only the "down and out" who lose themselves in today's drug culture.

IF this rumor is true .... I'm sure her family DID know. I'm also sure her friends might have known. It's not something that's discussed openly .... I can tell you, there is most often some shame and embarrassment which goes along with it.

I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if some in Natalee's circle of friends were addicted to drugs. Drugs are insidious, and are found where you least expect them.

This is just my impression of Jug .... he seems to be the type of individual who might say something without thinking about it .... regretting it later.

All Just My Opinion

Hi, Fair!

I know you stated this as a rumor, as well as your opinion on it. I was just stating my opinion in return.

I agree many priveledged and talented people have to go through rehab. Just look at many of the celebrities we have plastered across the tv. There is no doubt in my mind that many of these people are extremely talented individuals. That doesn't change the fact that when they fall, they fall hard (ex. Lohan, Spears, etc.). You may very well be right that it could have been hush-hush, but I don't think so. That article is alledging that Natalee "just got out of rehab," which means she would've missed school very close to the end of her senior year. I don't see this happening without it being noticed, not even by close friends and family. This rumor would have surfaced long before now, and not from some taxi driver claiming to have caused Jug to have the mouth flu.

This is all IMO and I will be the first to smack myself upside the head if the rumor proves true. We'll see.

[Luke Davis]

Originally Posted by JustMyOpinion

I don't know who decided on the destination or what kind of research was done prior to selecting it.

It has been discussed here. Don't know if the links exist any longer. There were 3 criteria for the location chosen.

1. Drinking age 18.
2. All inclusive.
3. No need for driving.


MOO




Jodi Bearman

Caution

Plus, the drinking age at many foreign destinations is 18 or younger - and seldom enforced, youth travel advisories warn.

``It's to get away from their parents and have an unbridled weekend with little or no responsibility - they think they're getting away with something,'' said Scott Gane, regional vice president for Initial Security, a national security firm based out of San Antonio, Texas.

Educate

[quote]JODI BEARMAN, TRIP ORGANIZER: From the research we have done, and the options for teens traveling from 18 to 20 years old, really, this is the safest spot. And we knew that the students wouldn

[Luke Davis]

Originally Posted by terrysdoor

IIRC in her book Beth said Matt went to Puerto Rico so maybe that is where they go now IMO

Much better.

Puerto Rico
Score: 51


Rating

[JustMyOpinion]

Originally Posted by Luke Davis

It has been discussed here. Don't know if the links exist any longer. There were 3 criteria for the location chosen.

1. Drinking age 18.
2. All inclusive.
3. No need for driving.


MOO




[

I've never read a statement from anyone claiming those were the three criteria.
At least one previous class took their trip to Aruba, this was likely part of the reason it was chosen again, IMO.
I don't doubt that the young people wanted to go somewhere with a lower legal drinking age. JMO

[fairmaiden]

Originally Posted by AMS80

Hi, Fair!

I know you stated this as a rumor, as well as your opinion on it. I was just stating my opinion in return.

I agree many priveledged and talented people have to go through rehab. Just look at many of the celebrities we have plastered across the tv. There is no doubt in my mind that many of these people are extremely talented individuals. That doesn't change the fact that when they fall, they fall hard (ex. Lohan, Spears, etc.). You may very well be right that it could have been hush-hush, but I don't think so. That article is alledging that Natalee "just got out of rehab," which means she would've missed school very close to the end of her senior year. I don't see this happening without it being noticed, not even by close friends and family. This rumor would have surfaced long before now, and not from some taxi driver claiming to have caused Jug to have the mouth flu.

This is all IMO and I will be the first to smack myself upside the head if the rumor proves true. We'll see.

I agree with you AMS .... I mentioned it before. One's absence is not something they can hide.

JMO

[Luke Davis]

Originally Posted by JustMyOpinion

I've never read a statement from anyone claiming those were the three criteria.
At least one previous class took their trip to Aruba, this was likely part of the reason it was chosen again, IMO.
I don't doubt that the young people wanted to go somewhere with a lower legal drinking age. JMO

At one time, I posted a video clip but I can't find it now, just this exerpt.

Meanwhile, the organizer of the graduation trip talked about why Aruba was chosen as the destination for Natalee and her Mountain Brook classmates.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JODI BEARMAN, TRIP ORGANIZER: From the research we have done, and the options for teens traveling from 18 to 20 years old, really, this is the safest spot. And we knew that the students wouldn‘t be driving cars. We did know that they would be old enough to drink and that they would be legal age to do so. And we provide chaperones. And, basically, the chaperones‘ jobs are simply to be there for emergencies.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MSNBC

[Heyes]

Originally Posted by JustMyOpinion

I disagree that other Island destinations are reputed to be "the first independent State under Mafia control", JMO.
http://www.tni.org/detail_page.phtml...s_tblick_aruba
Or, play a "significant role as an offshore center for drug-related money laundering" JMO http://www.newswithviews.com/Kouri/jim9.htm

Ouch!

[No Nic]

Originally Posted by JustMyOpinion

I disagree that other Island destinations are reputed to be "the first independent State under Mafia control", JMO.
http://www.tni.org/detail_page.phtml...s_tblick_aruba
Or, play a "significant role as an offshore center for drug-related money laundering" JMO http://www.newswithviews.com/Kouri/jim9.htm

Originally Posted by Heyes

Ouch!

[Chocoholic]

Originally Posted by JustMyOpinion

I disagree that other Island destinations are reputed to be "the first independent State under Mafia control", JMO.
http://www.tni.org/detail_page.phtml...s_tblick_aruba
Or, play a "significant role as an offshore center for drug-related money laundering" JMO http://www.newswithviews.com/Kouri/jim9.htm

This was discussed years ago, but thank you for the link. It was dated 1997.

Aruban Connections

Five members of the Aruban Mansur Family, viz. Mr. Elias F. Mansur, Mrs. Damia M. de Cuba-Mansur, Mr. Luis E. Mansur, Mr. Miguel J. Mansur and Mrs. Sarah E. Arends-Mansur, have raised objections against general references in the following chapter to the Mansurs or the Mansur family. In their opinion these references may be understood as including them and thereby implicating them in alleged wrongdoing they have never committed.
The author is of the opinion that such references to a large family will not be misunderstood as including each and every member of the family. However, in case this opinion should prove incorrect, the author points out that he regrets such misunderstanding and that he did not intend said references to implicate all members of the family.

Some familiar names in there aren't there?

Alex and Eric Mansur were indicted in Puerto Rico in August 1994

This is allegedly where Paul v.d. Sloot came in. I not longer have a link but read that Paul v.d. Sloot was instrumental in getting Alex and Eric extradicted.

Such a good friend of beth's that Jossy is. So very helpful, from what we've seen.

imo

[JustMyOpinion]

Originally Posted by Chocoholic

This was discussed years ago, but thank you for the link. It was dated 1997.

Aruban Connections



Some familiar names in there aren't there?


This is allegedly where Paul v.d. Sloot came in. I not longer have a link but read that Paul v.d. Sloot was instrumental in getting Alex and Eric extradicted.

Such a good friend of beth's that Jossy is. So very helpful, from what we've seen.

imo

Of course, you post unsubstantiated rumor on the board, (as usual) with the disclaimer that you "read it". I've not read that Jossy is "a good friend of Beth" or that members of his family had any prior involvement with the van der Sloot family.
Link, please.

[Chocoholic]

Foremost among those powerful families is the Mansurs, who built their fortune on liquor and cigarettes; they own Marlboro factories in Aruba and Curacao, as well as the Aruba-based Interbank and much of Aruba’s free-trade zone, where there is no customs inspection. They also have Florida shipping interests.

http://thekomisarscoop.com/1997/05/2...s-dutch-treat/

Interbank, IIRC was at the time owned by Jossy.

[JustMyOpinion]

Originally Posted by Chocoholic

http://thekomisarscoop.com/1997/05/2...s-dutch-treat/

Interbank, IIRC was at the time owned by Jossy.

There is nothing in the article you linked to stating what you alleged about Beth & Jossy or Jossy's family and Pvds.
Link, please.

[JustMyOpinion]

[quote=Chocoholic;9062778
Interbank, IIRC was at the time owned by Jossy.[/QUOTE]


Link to substantiate allegation that Jossy Mansur ever owned Interbank. TIA.

[Chocoholic]

The banking sector has weathered the recession well and seems well-capitalized and highly profitable. The share of nonperforming loans seems to have been brought under control and the acquisition of Interbank Aruba by Aruba Bank in late 2003 has further strengthened the banking system.

http://www.imf.org/external/np/ms/2005/011905.htm

Looks like the bank was owned by the Mansurs until 2003.

Hmm nonconforming loans and high interest rates.

[Chocoholic]

TWITTY: Well, you know, I‘ll be forever grateful for Jossy Mansur, who is there. And he has been so instrumental. And he‘s just a hero to all of us.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9354188/

If that's not a friend, what is?

[JustMyOpinion]

Originally Posted by Chocoholic

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9354188/

If that's not a friend, what is?

She said hero, not friend.

[Chocoholic]

Originally Posted by JustMyOpinion

She said hero, not friend.

IMO a matter of semantics. I would certainly call a hero of mine a friend.

[Heyes]

Originally Posted by JustMyOpinion

I disagree that other Island destinations are reputed to be "the first independent State under Mafia control", JMO.
http://www.tni.org/detail_page.phtml...s_tblick_aruba
Or, play a "significant role as an offshore center for drug-related money laundering" JMO http://www.newswithviews.com/Kouri/jim9.htm

The US is concerned about credible reports that some members of the Aruban government met regularly with individuals associated with drug trafficking and money laundering syndicates. In spite of, or perhaps because of, the denials by Aruba officials, the US remains convinced that entrenched money laundering organizations direct large cash deposits into land development and other construction projects on the island. (3) The Netherlands is equally worried. "I think we are going to loose it on Aruba," Arthur Docters van Leeuwen, the Dutch Attorney General, said about the counter-narcotics efforts on the island. Aruba is in the hands of some powerful families and Holland can't do anything about it, due to constitutional restraints. (4)

I think Natalee ended up in the hands of one of those families.........hmmmmm
IMO



From your first link,