Jena 6 deserves more...

[One2Snoop]

I'm outraged and shocked that this subject hasn't brought more attention and comments to the plight of these 6 young men.

What's up people? They're black and deserve what they get?

That is so, so wrong IMO. We are talking about human beings here whose lives are being ruined forever.

JMO
O2S

[accordn2me]

Snoop, you asked me to take another look at this. So, I'm doing that. Can I give you some homework?

First assignment:
Find me the law that says it's a crime to hang nooses from a tree.

[Results]

Originally Posted by accordn2me

Snoop, you asked me to take another look at this. So, I'm doing that. Can I give you some homework?

First assignment:
Find me the law that says it's a crime to hang nooses from a tree.

It doesn't matter where it was hung it was directed to the African Americans and that is a crime. Here are the articles about nooses and the law suits over it.

Three years ago, an African American employee of a construction firm working on a project at San Francisco International Airport found a noose hanging in a trailer. That case prompted an FBI investigation that led to a wider probe of minority contracting practices. July 10, 2000 New York Times Nooses, Symbols of Race Hatred, at Center of Workplace Lawsuits By SANA SIWOLOP -----------------------------------------------------------------------=- Kim Kulish for The New York Times Harold Archuleta, above, a former mechanic for American Airlines, said that before he left the company, he saw three nooses displayed at the Los Angeles Airport maintenance facility. Joe Banks, a Lockheed employee, says a noose was placed in his work area last summer. Ralph Nelson for The New York Times -----------------------------------------------------------------------=- Symbols of Lynching The government's Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, which has received dozens of complaints lately about threats to blacks and other members of minority groups involving the display of nooses in the workplace, has brought racial harassment lawsuits against about 20 companies where nooses were believed to be involved. Nine are currently pending. One is confidential.

Here is the link there is a lot of information about hanging nooses up and it is racial harassment.

http://www.newyork.indymedia.org/en/2003/12/34411.shtml

[Results]

http://www.newyork.indymedia.org/en/2003/12/34411.shtml

This is the same link but I just read this and want to show the punishment of hanging a noose.

The Justice Department considers noose incidents to be federal crimes of intimidation, punishable by up to 10 years in prison. Over all, racial harassment charges have surged over the last two decades, with the E.E.O.C. reporting that it received close to 50,000 such charges during the 1990's, versus roughly 10,000 in the 1980's. The agency considers noose incidents to be among the most egregious forms of racial harassment.

[accordn2me]

Originally Posted by Results

http://www.newyork.indymedia.org/en/2003/12/34411.shtml

This is the same link but I just read this and want to show the punishment of hanging a noose.

The Justice Department considers noose incidents to be federal crimes of intimidation, punishable by up to 10 years in prison. Over all, racial harassment charges have surged over the last two decades, with the E.E.O.C. reporting that it received close to 50,000 such charges during the 1990's, versus roughly 10,000 in the 1980's. The agency considers noose incidents to be among the most egregious forms of racial harassment.

Thank you for the link. I don't have time to read it all right now, but I will. I didn't mean to imply the location (the tree) had anything to do with it being a crime, or not. My question is...what does the law say about it? I figured it would be a federal law, if there is one, that deals with such a thing. I also would like to know if Louisiana has any laws (state) that would address the nooses being hung from the tree (or anywhere else). If it's only covered by federal laws, would the local D.A. have any jurisdiction to prosecute for that?

Just a quick note about the cases you've cited, they seem to be against employers. This is going to be somewhat different, is it not?

There is a headline posted earlier in this thread that reads something like: 'Blacks go to jail, while whites only get suspension' That's inflamatory, IMO. Things are already bad enough without the media printing headlines that will further inflame and divide. This one in particular is misleading, IMO, because the black students were charged because of a physical attack. The suspension was for the nooses. Granted the nooses "started it." But, did hanging them break any laws?

ETA: the headline is from the sticky "Do you know about the Jena six?" thread:
"Black teens could get prison while whites got suspensions"

[RN1]

Originally Posted by accordn2me

Thank you for the link. I don't have time to read it all right now, but I will. I didn't mean to imply the location (the tree) had anything to do with it being a crime, or not. My question is...what does the law say about it? I figured it would be a federal law, if there is one, that deals with such a thing. I also would like to know if Louisiana has any laws (state) that would address the nooses being hung from the tree (or anywhere else). If it's only covered by federal laws, would the local D.A. have any jurisdiction to prosecute for that?

Just a quick note about the cases you've cited, they seem to be against employers. This is going to be somewhat different, is it not?

There is a headline posted earlier in this thread that reads something like: 'Blacks go to jail, while whites only get suspension' That's inflamatory, IMO. Things are already bad enough without the media printing headlines that will further inflame and divide. This one in particular is misleading, IMO, because the black students were charged because of a physical attack. The suspension was for the nooses. Granted the nooses "started it." But, did hanging them break any laws?

ETA: the headline is from the sticky "Do you know about the Jena six?" thread:
"Black teens could get prison while whites got suspensions"

You do know one of the six has been arrested multiple times for assault. Don't have a link, it was published in our local paper a few weeks ago.
Well, maybe I do have a link, lol
Shreveporttimes.com


t

[RN1]

Originally Posted by accordn2me

Thank you for the link. I don't have time to read it all right now, but I will. I didn't mean to imply the location (the tree) had anything to do with it being a crime, or not. My question is...what does the law say about it? I figured it would be a federal law, if there is one, that deals with such a thing. I also would like to know if Louisiana has any laws (state) that would address the nooses being hung from the tree (or anywhere else). If it's only covered by federal laws, would the local D.A. have any jurisdiction to prosecute for that?

Just a quick note about the cases you've cited, they seem to be against employers. This is going to be somewhat different, is it not?

There is a headline posted earlier in this thread that reads something like: 'Blacks go to jail, while whites only get suspension' That's inflamatory, IMO. Things are already bad enough without the media printing headlines that will further inflame and divide. This one in particular is misleading, IMO, because the black students were charged because of a physical attack. The suspension was for the nooses. Granted the nooses "started it." But, did hanging them break any laws?

ETA: the headline is from the sticky "Do you know about the Jena six?" thread:
"Black teens could get prison while whites got suspensions"

Not positive, but I don't think Louisiana has a law against hate crimes, although hanging a noose wouldn't be considered a crime. The local D.A. can prosecute for the physical beatings, but I believe Federal would have to get involved to deal with the hanging of the noose.

[Results]

Originally Posted by RN1

Not positive, but I don't think Louisiana has a law against hate crimes, although hanging a noose wouldn't be considered a crime. The local D.A. can prosecute for the physical beatings, but I believe Federal would have to get involved to deal with the hanging of the noose.

In Louisiana five years is added to any crime if convicted of a hate crime.

Here is one example in Lake Charles, LA:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1459332/posts

[accordn2me]

Originally Posted by RN1

You do know one of the six has been arrested multiple times for assault. Don't have a link, it was published in our local paper a few weeks ago.
Well, maybe I do have a link, lol
Shreveporttimes.com


t

No. I didn't know. Did I read that one of the six is 22-years old? Was he the one? Was he a student at the school?

[accordn2me]

Originally Posted by Results

In Louisiana five years is added to any crime if convicted of a hate crime.

Here is one example in Lake Charles, LA:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1459332/posts

(my bold) What is the Louisiana law that addresses this?

[accordn2me]

Originally Posted by RN1

Not positive, but I don't think Louisiana has a law against hate crimes, although hanging a noose wouldn't be considered a crime. The local D.A. can prosecute for the physical beatings, but I believe Federal would have to get involved to deal with the hanging of the noose.

Do you know anything about the allegations that there were black students beaten by white students? If this is true, and there were no charges filed....well, that's a good example of the power a district attorney wields. The decision to prosecute or not to prosecute is his and his alone to make. It would take a constitutional amendment to change that.

[TuscanDreams]

Ok, we need to band together and get the message out that the Jena 6 deserve justice. Where do you all want to start? Here's an idea from me.

A public official once stated that he loved it when people emailed him with complaints. Reason? The automated response sent out a form letter and he never had to read the issues involved that his constitutes sent. Then he stated that he hated snail mail, because his secretary had to open the letter and he had to read it.

My thoughts are for a snail mail campaign, followed with phone calls. Any better ideas?

And, I'd like to add this thought. One of the offenders I've recently dealt with was a victim. Yes, this offender is on Parole for Second Degree Robbery, yet he was recently stripped naked in his yard and people shot at him. His ID was taken, etc. It's noted that the offender committed the robbery when he was 19 and he's now 29 with 2 small kids and his life is together.

My point is this- even if one of the Jena Six has been arrested for assualt, etc, they still don't deserve to be treated like this.

[Luke Davis]

Originally Posted by accordn2me

Thank you for the link. I don't have time to read it all right now, but I will. I didn't mean to imply the location (the tree) had anything to do with it being a crime, or not. My question is...what does the law say about it? I figured it would be a federal law, if there is one, that deals with such a thing. I also would like to know if Louisiana has any laws (state) that would address the nooses being hung from the tree (or anywhere else). If it's only covered by federal laws, would the local D.A. have any jurisdiction to prosecute for that?

Just a quick note about the cases you've cited, they seem to be against employers. This is going to be somewhat different, is it not?

There is a headline posted earlier in this thread that reads something like: 'Blacks go to jail, while whites only get suspension' That's inflamatory, IMO. Things are already bad enough without the media printing headlines that will further inflame and divide. This one in particular is misleading, IMO, because the black students were charged because of a physical attack. The suspension was for the nooses. Granted the nooses "started it." But, did hanging them break any laws?

ETA: the headline is from the sticky "Do you know about the Jena six?" thread:
"Black teens could get prison while whites got suspensions"

I thought the nooses were a reaction.

[accordn2me]

Originally Posted by TuscanDreams

Ok, we need to band together and get the message out that the Jena 6 deserve justice. Where do you all want to start? Here's an idea from me.

A public official once stated that he loved it when people emailed him with complaints. Reason? The automated response sent out a form letter and he never had to read the issues involved that his constitutes sent. Then he stated that he hated snail mail, because his secretary had to open the letter and he had to read it.

My thoughts are for a snail mail campaign, followed with phone calls. Any better ideas?

And, I'd like to add this thought. One of the offenders I've recently dealt with was a victim. Yes, this offender is on Parole for Second Degree Robbery, yet he was recently stripped naked in his yard and people shot at him. His ID was taken, etc. It's noted that the offender committed the robbery when he was 19 and he's now 29 with 2 small kids and his life is together.

My point is this- even if one of the Jena Six has been arrested for assualt, etc, they still don't deserve to be treated like this.

(my bold)

May I ask, what is your idea of justice for their crime?

[accordn2me]

Originally Posted by Freshwater

Under Penal Code Section 422, a criminal threat has five elements:

1. the accused willfully threatened to commit the crime that will result in death or great bodily injury; and 2. the accused made the threat with the specific intent that it be taken as a threat; and 3. the threat is so unequivocal, unconditional, immediate, and specific as to convey a gravity of purpose and the immediate prospect of execution; and 4. the threat actually caused sustained fear in the victim; and 5. the sustained fear was reasonable.

Does the noose incident fit?

My opinion is no, the noose incident does not fit.

Is Penal Code Section 422 a federal law, or state?

Just curious, do you think it fits? If yes, please elaborate. TIA

[Results]

Originally Posted by TuscanDreams

Ok, we need to band together and get the message out that the Jena 6 deserve justice. Where do you all want to start? Here's an idea from me.

A public official once stated that he loved it when people emailed him with complaints. Reason? The automated response sent out a form letter and he never had to read the issues involved that his constitutes sent. Then he stated that he hated snail mail, because his secretary had to open the letter and he had to read it.

My thoughts are for a snail mail campaign, followed with phone calls. Any better ideas?

And, I'd like to add this thought. One of the offenders I've recently dealt with was a victim. Yes, this offender is on Parole for Second Degree Robbery, yet he was recently stripped naked in his yard and people shot at him. His ID was taken, etc. It's noted that the offender committed the robbery when he was 19 and he's now 29 with 2 small kids and his life is together.

My point is this- even if one of the Jena Six has been arrested for assualt, etc, they still don't deserve to be treated like this.

Hey TD. I will be willing to try any suggestions to help out!

[odette]

Official sought to clear up 'Jena Six' 'misinformation'

By Abbey Brown
abrown@thetowntalk.com

It has been called a "schoolyard fight," a "brutal attack" and even an "incident."

But whatever it has been called, what happened at around noon on Dec. 4 in Jena has definitely been talked about.

The "Jena Six" and the incidents surrounding their cases have made headlines across the world. However, the story about the attack at the school that left one white student -- Justin Barker -- unconscious and six black students -- Robert Bailey Jr., Mychal Bell, Carwin Jones, Bryant Purvis, Theo Shaw and an unnamed juvenile -- initially charged with attempted murder -- hasn't always been right, U.S. Attorney Donald Washington said.
He spent much of his time during last week's Department of Justice education forum helping to clear up some of the "misinformation flying about." He also focused on some of the civil rights laws those in the community wanted to learn more about.

Washington and the other forum presenters -- Lewis Chapman, assistant special agent in charge of the New Orleans FBI office, and Carmelita Freeman, regional director of Justice's Community Relations Service -- had two goals during the forum. The first was to lay out what the federal government does and can do to help residents, and the other was to come up with a list of concerns so a plan can be made to address them.

Washington stressed that his office has been keeping an eye on the events in Jena but that it does not currently have a case at all -- either under investigation or awaiting prosecution. ....

excerpt
These are some of the other things discussed by Washington during the nearly four-hour forum Thursday night:

Selective prosecution and arrest
You have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the district attorney decided to treat one group of people different than another, which is hard to prove, Washington said. He said he would have to have proof of Walters' intentions, such as a record of Walters' spoken words or somewhere that he had written that intention down.

There have been no complaints of misconduct on the part of the Jena Police Department filed in connection to any of these incidents.

The nooses
There was no public denouncement of the noose incident, something Washington said he "sincerely, sincerely apologizes for."

The nooses weren't reported to the police, Sheriff's Office or District Attorney's Office by the school or any of the parents who were aware of it. It was handled by the school authorities, who conducted an investigation into members of the rodeo team. According to the school, the nooses were hung as a prank in response to a question asked in a "jocular fashion" by a male student at an orientation assembly, Washington said.

The three students found responsible for hanging the nooses have no history of violence. The principal recommended expulsion, but a school district committee overruled that decision and decided to suspend them instead, a decision approved by Superintendent Roy Breithaupt. There were no other problems noticed by the school officials.

Although proving all of the elements of a hate crime can be difficult, Washington stressed that isn't the biggest issue.

"First of all, as the FBI said (during the forum) hanging a noose under the circumstances these nooses were hung is a hate crime," Washington said Monday. "... If these were adults who hung the noose, there would be less of an issue with moving forward with the investigation and prosecution."

He said hanging the noose after a student asks about being able to conduct some kind of activity around school tends to indicate strongly that the white students who hung it were intending to send a message. But because those who hung the nooses were juveniles, it makes the process much more difficult.

He said the federal government rarely prosecutes juveniles, and even if it does, it would be in a juvenile delinquency hearing that would be closed to the public and conducted in a manner that the public would be unaware that it even occurred. ...

Continued: Official sought to clear up 'Jena Six' 'misinformation'

[odette]

Legal Debate

Laws discussed during "Jena Six" forum:

# Civil Rights conspiracy statute: Makes it unlawful for two or more persons to agree together to injure, threaten or intimidate a person in any state, territory or district in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him by the Constitution or the laws of the Unites States

Punishment is imprisonment of not more than 10 years and a fine.

# Deprivation of rights under color of law: Makes it a crime for a person acting under color of any law to willfully deprive a person of a right or privilege protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States. Persons acting under color of law within the meaning of this statute include police officers, prison guards and other law enforcement officials, as well as judges, care providers in public health facilities and others who are acting as public officials. It is not necessary that the crime be motivated by animus toward the race, color, religion, sex, handicap, familial status or national origin of the victim.

Punishment is a fine or no more than one year imprisonment.

# Exclusion of jurors on account of race or color: Makes it a crime to disqualify a citizen possessing all other qualifications which are or may be prescribed by law shall for service as grand or petit juror in any court of the United States, or of any State on account of race, color or previous condition of servitude; and whoever, being an officer or other person charged with any duty in the selection or summoning of jurors, excludes or fails to summon any citizen for such cause.

The punishment is a fine of not more than $5,000.

# Damage to religious property: Prohibits anyone from intentionally defacing, damaging or destroying religious real property because of the religious nature of the property, so long as the crime is committed in or affects interstate commerce. The statute also prohibits anyone from intentionally obstructing or attempting to obstruct, by force or threat of force, a person in the enjoyment of that person's religious beliefs, where the crime is committed in or affects interstate commerce. Finally, the statute prohibits anyone from intentionally defacing, damaging or destroying any religious real property because of the race, color or ethnic characteristics of any individual associated with the property, regardless of any connection to interstate or foreign commerce.

Punishment for violating this law is a fine and no more than one year imprisonment.

# Civil action for deprivation of rights: Every person who, under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom or usage of any state or territory or the District of Columbia, subjects, or causes to be subjected, any citizen of the United States or other person within the jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights, privileges or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be liable to the party injured in an action at law, suit in equity or other proper proceeding for redress, except that in any action brought against a judicial officer for an act or omission taken in such officer's judicial capacity, injunctive relief shall not be granted unless a declaratory decree was violated or declaratory relief was unavailable.

# Louisiana Hate Crime statute: Makes it unlawful for any person to select the victim of the following offenses against person and property because of actual or perceived race, age, gender, religion, color, creed, disability, sexual orientation, national origin or ancestry of that person or the owner or occupant of that property or because of actual or perceived membership or service in, or employment with, an organization: first- or second-degree murder; manslaughter; battery; aggravated battery; second-degree battery; aggravated assault with a firearm; terrorizing; mingling harmful substances; simple, forcible or aggravated rape; sexual battery; second-degree sexual battery; oral sexual battery; carnal knowledge of a juvenile; indecent behavior with juveniles; molestation of a juvenile; simple, second-degree or aggravated kidnapping; simple or aggravated arson; placing combustible materials; communicating of false information of planned arson; simple or aggravated criminal damage to property; contamination of water supplies; simple or aggravated burglary; criminal trespass; simple, first-degree or armed robbery; purse snatching; extortion; theft; desecration of graves; institutional vandalism; or assault by drive-by shooting.

If the underlying offense is a misdemeanor, the offender can be fined no more than $500 and imprisoned no more than six months. If the underlying offense is a felony, the offender can be fined no more than $5,000 and imprisoned for not more than five years. With both, the sentence will run consecutively to the sentence for the underlying offense.

Source: U.S. and Louisiana code

continued: Laws discussed during "Jena Six" forum:

[TuscanDreams]

I feel that the nooses being hung from trees are the equilivant of a burning cross in the yard of a black family. Both are based in harassment, specifically racial intimidation.

[accordn2me]

Originally Posted by TuscanDreams

I feel that the nooses being hung from trees are the equilivant of a burning cross in the yard of a black family. Both are based in harassment, specifically racial intimidation.

I know what you mean. However, the tree was in the school yard.

[Luke Davis]

I haven't been following this case closely. I watched CNN last night and they did a report on it. As part of the report, they interviewed the parents of the boy who was attacked. Their view was that their son doesn't remember much because the first blow was to the back of his head.

He went to the hospital and was treated and released about two hours later. Since then he has had follow up treatments amounting to $12,000. There was more to the report but it was similar to what I read here.

MOO

[TrueSeeker]

Originally Posted by accordn2me

Do you know anything about the allegations that there were black students beaten by white students? If this is true, and there were no charges filed....well, that's a good example of the power a district attorney wields. The decision to prosecute or not to prosecute is his and his alone to make. It would take a constitutional amendment to change that.

One black student was in a fight with one white boy. Yes, he was charged. IIRC, he was charged with simple battery because the fight was one on one.

[TrueSeeker]

Originally Posted by Freshwater

Under Penal Code Section 422, a criminal threat has five elements:

1. the accused willfully threatened to commit the crime that will result in death or great bodily injury; and 2. the accused made the threat with the specific intent that it be taken as a threat; and 3. the threat is so unequivocal, unconditional, immediate, and specific as to convey a gravity of purpose and the immediate prospect of execution; and 4. the threat actually caused sustained fear in the victim; and 5. the sustained fear was reasonable.

Does the noose incident fit?

I am not sure, I do know the FBI is all over this case. They did not file charges. I was told they were in Jena again a few days ago. Maybe we will hear something soon.

[TrueSeeker]

Originally Posted by TuscanDreams

I feel that the nooses being hung from trees are the equilivant of a burning cross in the yard of a black family. Both are based in harassment, specifically racial intimidation.

I do not know if it is as bad as a burning cross, but it is very close to that, IMHO. It might have been a prank to the boys that hung them, but it is clearly not a prank for everyone else. The boys involved were to be expelled for the rest of the year by the principal. Once the head of the school board stepped in, he overturned the principal's decision. The principal resigned. The new punishment was alternative school for three weeks. After that they were still not allowed back into the general population with the other students. They were kept in a room with one teacher and not allowed to mingle with any students for the rest of the school year. They were allowed to graduate.

[One2Snoop]

Originally Posted by TrueSeeker

I do not know if it is as bad as a burning cross, but it is very close to that, IMHO. It might have been a prank to the boys that hung them, but it is clearly not a prank for everyone else. The boys involved were to be expelled for the rest of the year by the principal. Once the head of the school board stepped in, he overturned the principal's decision. The principal resigned. The new punishment was alternative school for three weeks. After that they were still not allowed back into the general population with the other students. They were kept in a room with one teacher and not allowed to mingle with any students for the rest of the school year. They were allowed to graduate.

I find this grossly unfair to the black students who were charged with attempted murder. From my understanding, one event lead to another, the biggest being the "beating of a white student" after the nooses were hung. Why didn't justice step in when the nooses were hung? What about the beating of a black student? Do you honestly believe the beating of a white student would've occured if the noose situation had been publically acknowledged and taken care of properly?
If I read correctly, higher authority didn't take it seriouly and thought it would work itself out?? We're talking a small southern town where 88% (not accurate,I'm sure) of the population is white and 12% is black?! Give me a break! These black kids had no chance and will not get justice with an all white jury.
My biggest question is, if your son or daughter (put yourself in the reversal role here) had been involved with the noose hanging situation what would you have done to publically rectify the situation?

If I'd been in those shoes I'd certainly gone the nine yards to make it right with all involved. Why didn't the families of those boys who hung those nooses in the school yard try to make it right? It's all in upbringing in my opinion. What sort of an example did those parents set? A very bad one IMO.

My view is this. The buck of passing racisim on will never stop, particularly when parents won't step in and tell their kids it was wrong and they need to make it right, particularly when it comes to skin color. It goes both ways people, white or black, purple or blue, yellow or green, we all have to live and work together to make things right. I truly think this is what living in 2007 America is all about?

Just My 2 cents
O2S

[TrueSeeker]

Originally Posted by One2Snoop

I find this grossly unfair to the black students who were charged with attempted murder. From my understanding, one event lead to another, the biggest being the "beating of a white student" after the nooses were hung. Why didn't justice step in when the nooses were hung? What about the beating of a black student? Do you honestly believe the beating of a white student would've occured if the noose situation had been publically acknowledged and taken care of properly?
If I read correctly, higher authority didn't take it seriouly and thought it would work itself out?? We're talking a small southern town where 88% (not accurate,I'm sure) of the population is white and 12% is black?! Give me a break! These black kids had no chance and will not get justice with an all white jury.
My biggest question is, if your son or daughter (put yourself in the reversal role here) had been involved with the noose hanging situation what would you have done to publically rectify the situation?

If I'd been in those shoes I'd certainly gone the nine yards to make it right with all involved. Why didn't the families of those boys who hung those nooses in the school yard try to make it right? It's all in upbringing in my opinion. What sort of an example did those parents set? A very bad one IMO.

My view is this. The buck of passing racisim on will never stop, particularly when parents won't step in and tell their kids it was wrong and they need to make it right, particularly when it comes to skin color. It goes both ways people, white or black, purple or blue, yellow or green, we all have to live and work together to make things right. I truly think this is what living in 2007 America is all about?

Just My 2 cents
O2S

I agree, the punishment and the missed oppurtunity to correct the noose hangers was missed by a long shot. Still, that doesn't make it right to have 6 beat 1. The school could have used the noose hanging as an oppurtunity to teach the children something about racism, instead they did nothing. I believe everyone thought the problem would work itself out. How ridiculous is that? Yes, the parents are partly responsible in all of this.

[accordn2me]

Originally Posted by One2Snoop

I find this grossly unfair to the black students who were charged with attempted murder. From my understanding, one event lead to another, the biggest being the "beating of a white student" after the nooses were hung. Why didn't justice step in when the nooses were hung? What about the beating of a black student? Do you honestly believe the beating of a white student would've occured if the noose situation had been publically acknowledged and taken care of properly?<snipped>

(my bold)

I'll ask again, specifically, what law was broken by the nooses being hung in the school yard tree?

As I understand it, it's public record that the noose hangers were expelled, then that decision was overridden by the school board and the expulsion was reduced to a suspension. It's very hard to legally expel a student from public education, of which a right to is protected by law.

[Athena]

I agree with One2Snoop and with TrueSeeker's comments as well. IMO the whole school body, officials, parents and students should have nipped the noose hangings incident in the bud. It was handled poorly and as FW says it is no justification for striking another individual especially if it were 6 on 1 which is dangerous no matter what as it becomes a "gang" mentality and gets out of hand but if it were handled promptly and apologies made to the black student body this may not have happened. I believe many turn their heads when racial events occur and don't want to speak out in fear of what their "neighbors" will think of them and therein lies part of the problems in this country. In this case because it happened on school property, the school officials should have initiated a "no tolerance" racism rule right then and there.

I'm also confused by the article posted by "Town Talk" as to the 6 on 1. JMO

[accordn2me]

Originally Posted by Athena

It's also a moral issue that should have offended both blacks and whites, IMO. This should have been nipped in the bud and the suspensions made and apologies made to the black student body BEFORE anything happened. This incident was totally handled poorly by the school administrators. JMHO

"Nipped in the bud" how?

When did the suspensions happen?

[accordn2me]

Originally Posted by Freshwater

A University of New Hampshire Flyer to sent to all Freshman
Hanging a noose is discriminatory harrassment

I don't know how to make it any more clear than asking for the specific law which was broken by hanging 3 nooses from the tree which stood on the Jena High School grounds.

Thank you for providing an example of "discriminatory harassment" according to "A University of New Hampshire Flyer."

[accordn2me]

Originally Posted by Freshwater

I am working on it - reviewing case law now.

Thank you, Freshwater. Your efforts are appreciated.

Now, in light of the ardent support for the Jena 6 here at Crime Library, the fact that the NAACP, not to mention the FBI, having been called in to look at this, and my question days ago asking for the law that was broken going unanswered, I'm going to venture that the answer to my question is: none.

If that is true, and there was no law broken, exactly what do the ardent supporters propose "should have been done" to "handle this properly?"

Both sides need to be held accountable where account is due. The district attorney would have been remiss in not pressing charges against the Jena 6 because the law was clearly broken in the beating of Justin Barker. If no law was broken where the nooses are concerned, the suspensions were the only recourse. If it's the possible length of sentences allowed by law for the charges that were brought against the Jena 6 that is causing the uproar, then say that. Many times, IMO, DAs will charge the maximum knowing that defendants often walk with much lighter sentences than they could potentially get. Maybe that's what's happening in this situation.

And let's not forget, this beating happened just after the district attorney's direct warning to the students at the assembly. Personally, I'm impressed that he followed through on his word. Many politicians don't.

[accordn2me]

Originally Posted by Freshwater

OK Accorn2me, Here's my first stab at it. What do you think? I also see a general common understanding that hanging a noose represents harrassment - as that act is often cited as such in flyers, student handbooks etc...

IMO it can be argued that the school's conduct violated both the Equal Protection clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the US Constitution and Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. The Equal Protection clause prohibits a state from denying "to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." Under Title VI, moreover, "[n]o person in the United States shall, on the ground of race, color, or national origin . . . be subjected to discrimination under any program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance."

Under Title VI, the ninth district court of appeals in Monteiro v Temple Union School District announced a school district might be liable for a hostile racial educational environment caused by the harassing conduct of its students.
The court followed reasoning previously developed by the US Department of Education in that agency's conclusion that Title VI does indeed prohibit student-to-student racial harassment.
Under this rationale, a school district violates Title VI when there is a racially hostile environment, the district had notice of the problem, and it failed to respond adequately to redress the racially hostile environment.
The court quoted with approval the Department's holding that "an alleged harasser need not be an agent or employee of the recipient [of Federal funds] because this theory of liability under Title VI is premised on a recipient's general duty to provide a nondiscriminatory educational environment."
From these statements, the court concluded that "[r]acial harassment creates a hostile environment if it is sufficiently severe that it would interfere with the educational program of a reasonable person of the same age and race as the victim."

Additional cases that assert racial harrassment in public schools can be a violation of Title VI:

Davis v. Monroe County Board of Education

Bryant & Bryant v. Independent School Districyt, Gavin County, Oklahoma

Additional Sources

from Davis v. Monroe County:

Because deliberate indifference to known instances of student-on-student racial harassment is a viable theory in a Title VI intentional discrimination suit, I consider it important to discuss the standards that guide our disposition of the instant motion and which, in my judgment, must guide the district court's inquiry on remand.(3)

C. The Test: (1) Did Student-on-Student Conduct at Plaintiffs' School Constitute a Racially Hostile Educational Environment, to Which (2) Defendant Was Deliberately Indifferent?

....

In answering this question, the Supreme Court's analysis in Davis determines what facts are material. See Anderson v. Liberty Lobby, Inc., 477 U.S. 242, 248 (1986) (when considering whether a genuine issue of material fact exists, "the substantive law will identify which facts are material").

In Murrell, we interpreted Davis as setting forth four factors a plaintiff must allege to state a Title IX claim against a school district under the deliberate indifference theory:

She must allege that the district (1) had actual knowledge of, and (2) was deliberately indifferent to (3) harassment that was so severe, pervasive and objectively offensive that it (4) deprived the victim of access to the educational benefits or opportunities provided by the school. This limited rule imposes liability only on those school districts that choose to ignore Title IX's mandate for equal educational opportunities.

Murrell, 186 F.3d at 1246.

In applying this test to plaintiffs' hostile environment claim in this case, the district court on remand must remain mindful of the Court's guidance as to when harassment constitutes a hostile environment and when mere inaction constitutes deliberate indifference. As Murrell indicates, the standard set forth by the Davis Court, which must guide the district court's inquiry on remand into whether defendant's alleged failure to act subjected plaintiffs to a "racially hostile environment," is quite high:

[F]unding recipients are properly held liable in damages only where they are deliberately indifferent to [racial] harassment, of which they have actual knowledge, that is so severe, pervasive, and objectively offensive that it can be said to deprive the victims of access to the educational opportunities or benefits provided by the school.

.....

[F]unding recipients are deemed "deliberately indifferent" to acts of student-on-student harassment only where the recipient's response to the harassment or lack thereof is clearly unreasonable in light of the known circumstances. . . . [T]he recipient must merely respond to known peer harassment in a manner that is not clearly unreasonable. This is not a mere "reasonableness" standard. . . .

Trying to make this fit the incidents at Jena High School.....the school district did acknowledge the nooses - suspended the students who hung them - and cut down the tree at some point. IIRC, there was still unrest at the school so the district called in the local district attorney to address the students, which he did, apparently. After that, part of the school was torched....(were there any arrests for this crime?)...then the beating of Justin Barker happened.

Personally, I don't see where a case under Title IV could be made on behalf of the Jena 6. Do you think the school district was "deliberately indifferent?"

From what I'm reading here, it's the district attorney's actions that are being called into question. That is a problem, not this case specifically, but all over the state of Louisiana that needs to be addressed. District attorneys have the legal right/power to prosecute whomever they wish, or conversely, to not prosecute.

[One2Snoop]

I apologize accord. When it comes to the law, (legal mumbo jumbo) I'm clueless. Doesn't help "my case" at all does it? Thanks to Freshwater and the others who've sited case law.

One thing I noticed you failed to mention in your last post was the black student who was attacked "first" and took the gun away from his attacker. He was then charged with stealing the gun. What's up with that? The beating of the white student happened after this incident, IIRC.

I think this whole case/situation boils down to a chain of events, all steming back to those nooses hung in the school yard. Against the law or not, those nooses were put there to intimidate and it appears that mission was accomplished.



IMO, JMO.

[accordn2me]

Originally Posted by One2Snoop

I apologize accord. When it comes to the law, (legal mumbo jumbo) I'm clueless. Doesn't help "my case" at all does it? Thanks to Freshwater and the others who've sited case law.

One thing I noticed you failed to mention in your last post was the black student who was attacked "first" and took the gun away from his attacker. He was then charged with stealing the gun. What's up with that? The beating of the white student happened after this incident, IIRC.

I think this whole case/situation boils down to a chain of events, all steming back to those nooses hung in the school yard. Against the law or not, those nooses were put there to intimidate and it appears that mission was accomplished.



IMO, JMO.

Oh, please don't apologize, O2S! I'm just curious to know if a law was broken by the teens who hung the nooses in the school yard tree. I don't know if one was or not. I would guess not, though. So, if no law was broken.....

Interesting that you point back to the nooses as to where the chain of events started. IMO, it started well before that. And it certainly doesn't seem like the black students were "intimidated" (the school was torched, Justin Barker beaten) until they were in jail and facing long prison sentences. JMO

You've got ahead start on me on this case too! I don't know much about the "first" black student who was attacked. Maybe truthseeker, or one of the others can shed some light for us. IIRC, there was something like this where a black student was asked to leave a private party, for some reason he refused, a fight ensued, and a time later...and away from the party...he was confronted by a white adult with a shotgun. Did the black student report this to police? Did the white adult (whom I believe was arrested for the fight) report his gun stolen....and it was later found by police in possession (unreported) of the black student?

[Athena]

From Urban Legends:

THE FACTS:

In a small highly segregated rural Louisiana town of Jena in September 2006, a black student asked permission from school administrators to sit under the shade of a tree commonly reserved for the enjoyment of white students. School officials advised the black students to sit wherever they wanted and they did. The next day, three nooses, in the school colors, were hanging from the same tree.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/jena6.asp

[Athena]

I don't usually post links to the Wiki but this appears to be a composition of many articles which are linked via footnotes:

Jena Six assault

The following Monday, December 4, a white student named Justin Barker, aged 17, loudly discussed - "bragged," as characterized by National Public Radio - how Bailey had been beaten up by a white man that Friday night.[1] When Barker walked out of the school gymnasium into the courtyard later that day, he was assaulted by Bailey and five other black students, and was temporarily knocked unconscious. The concussion he suffered has been described in the media as resulting either from a punch to the face or from hitting his head on concrete when thrown to the ground. While on the ground, Barker was kicked repeatedly. Barker was examined by a doctor at the local hospital.[2][1] After two hours of treatment and observation for his concussion and an eye that had swollen shut, Barker was discharged in time to go to the school Ring Ceremony that evening.[4] In the meantime the six black students, eventually dubbed the "Jena Six"[11], were arrested.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jena_Six

[packy]

Somehow it seems the school should have known even if it was unspoken that the tree was being reserved and worked at phasing out that so-called that given? And I wonder how much it may have helped if the board and superintendent had not ignored the principal's recommendation. Sad case overall, and someone asked about why the parent's didn't speak out publicly or something to that effect. I wonder too and tend to think that if they didn't it may be because they uphold such activities -- can't help it even if my thought about it is an unfair reaction.

[accordn2me]

Originally Posted by packy

Somehow it seems the school should have known even if it was unspoken that the tree was being reserved and worked at phasing out that so-called that given? <snipped>

What should they have done to phase "that so-called given" out?

[accordn2me]

Originally Posted by Freshwater

Noose hangers should have been arrested for criminal behavior and expelled from school in violation of stated department of education policies.

So far, no one has cited the law under which they could have been arrested. If no law was broken, no expulsion should have resulted. The suspension was the appropriate recourse of action. Had the noose hangers been expelled, I'm virtually positive they could have fought it and they would have won.

Originally Posted by Freshwater

There are independent legal issues that are or could be addressed in the Jena 6. I believe strongly that Under Title VI of the Civil Rights act of 1964, claims of civil rights violations can be made on behalf of the Jena 6. I also believe that a school district interested in those said rights would have more vigorously pursued all legal remedies to ensure the expulsion of the noose hangers. There were several available legal avenues that could have been pursued by the DA and the School board to ensure the noose hangers were removed from the school in order to promote a safe, fair, and ethical school environment.

I disagree that Title VI could be used to prosecute the noose hangers. IMO, Title VI violations could only be brought against the district, not the students who hung the nooses. The school district was not "deliberately indifferent" to the nooses, or to the racial unrest at the school.

Originally Posted by Freshwater

School Board - The Board could have made a case for expulsion based on the LaSalle Parish Schools policies and standards where it states "
Recommended Expulsion:
Threatening a student and/or faculty or staff with a weapon (real or imagined) Possession of drugs (State Law)
Fourth suspension "
As stated earlier I see a noose as a threat of violence and I would consider it's placement on a tree as a threat with a weapon.

The nooses were hung by students under the "white" tree, not in any particular person's yard, but in the school yard. Furthermore, the description of the tree as the "white" tree strikes me as hilarious. I wonder when the tree was coined the "white" tree?

Do you think the school district...all school districts...should impose rules against self-segregation? I know the administration at a couple of schools I've taught at have tried to discourage teachers from self-segregating at faculty and PTA meetings. There have been not so subtle admonishments about teachers grouping on one side and parents on the other at PTA meetings. At faculty meetings it seems black teachers sit together while white teachers sit together. It didn't even dawn on me this was happening until it was pointed out and we started being grouped by grade level. As soon as we didn't have required places to sit, it went right back to the way it was before. I don't see a practical way to regulate this.

Originally Posted by Freshwater

According to Louisiana law: A hate crime is a criminal offense committed against a person, property or society which is motivated, in whole or in part, by the offender's bias against a race, religion, disability, sexual orientation or ethnicity/national origin.
The three elements that must be present:
Threat or use of force.
Motivated by bias.
Involves a federally protected activity such as education, employment, parks, streets, accommodations, etc.

The nooses were hung by students. The school district responded. The FBI took a look and said: no crime.

Originally Posted by Freshwater

Element 1 - There was most definitely IMO a threat of force. The noose hanging implies a threat of of violence in and of itself. I believe there could be countless experts called to clarify the symbolic meaning of the noose as a terror threat in much the same way that a swastika is considered a terror threat when painted on a synagogue.
Element 2 - I believe that hanging a noose from a tree that is considered a white tree reserved exclusively for white students the day after three Black students sought official school permission to sit under said tree demonstrates motivational bias
Element 3 - The noose hanging most definitely involves a federally protected activity - education. Jena High School does indeed receive federal funds.

The noose hangers should have been arrested for terroristic threats with the compounded element of a hate crime. In addition to violating the civil rights of the three black students who had dared to sit under the white tree.

Who reserved the "white" tree exclusively for white students? Did it have a sign on it?

What were the specific civil rights that were violated? Who violated them?

[accordn2me]

Originally Posted by Freshwater

You may elect to disagree here but the larger issue is that no officials in Jena sought to pursue this angle to ensure the removal of the noose hangers from Jena High School. In fact the Principle of Jena High School - the official closest to the ground - initially DID IIRC expel these students under the schools threat and harassment policy. This decision was overturned by the Superintendent - not the legal arm of the school district - as being too severe a punishment (not that there was no legal basis for expulsion). Moreover, in protest and further acknowledgment that the educational environs were indeed hostile, the principal of Jena High School resigned.

Maybe the officials didn't pursue "this angle" because legally it wouldn't stand up in court. I don't know, maybe it would have. However, I know of instances where students have brought deadly weapons to school (guns, knives), they were expelled, fought the expulsion, and were allowed to go back to school because their right to a public education is guaranteed by the state constitution. That right supersedes any violation they committed. I know that sounds wrong, but unfortunately, that's the way it is here in Louisiana (and probably other places too).

Originally Posted by Freshwater

Additional issues may include:
1. The simple assault conviction and sentence to probation for the white students who assaulted a black student.
2. Lack of arrest for white student, brandishing a weapon, and threatening black students
3. The heightened charge of second degree murder and consequentially high bail for the Jena six when no weapon was used and minimal injuries occurred.

And with that I leave the remainder of this debate and discussion to all of you!

Freshwater

I'm reading conflicting accounts of what you listed as "additional issues." On issue 1., were there multiple white students on one black student? What do you feel would have been the appropriate charge and sentence?

On issue 2., I thought the weapon was brandished by an adult who was arrested. He claims he was threatened.

You seem to be most bothered by "The heightened charge of second degree murder and consequentially high bail for the Jena six when no weapon was used and minimal injuries occurred," after a physical attack, yet you are calling for severe measures, (requiring a narrow, stretching interpretation of the law, IMO) against students who touched no one physically. You say the Jena 6 used no weapon. Saying a tennis shoe is a weapon does seem absurd at first. However, study self-defense and you will find that all sorts of things can be used as weapons (e.g. ink pens, pencils, keys, credit cards, perfume, belts, shoelaces, certain jewelry, etc.).

Supporters of the Jena 6 seem to have two major complaints. The first is against school district officials for the handling of the racial unrest in the school district. This should most certainly be addressed. However, unless a law is broken, it can't be addressed in a courtroom.

The next complaint is against what appears to be an unfair district attorney. For me, this is the major issue that should be addressed. Unfortunately, the race card has been played and it will forever obscure the most serious underlying problem, IMO, of this entire ordeal - all powerful district attorneys who are totally within their legal rights and power granted to them by the Louisiana state constitution to do as they will with cases falling under their jurisdiction.