Judge Says Henry Lee Not Credible

[dallasvic]

Spector Trial: Lee Will Not Be Held In Contempt
Spector Trial: Lee Will Not Be Held In Contempt. The judge in Phil Spector's murder trial ruled Wednesday that renowned forensic expert Dr. Henry Lee removed something from the scene where actress Lana Clarkson was shot and hid it from the prosecution, but said he would not hold Lee in contempt now because of conflicting accounts of what happened. Live Video: Spector Trial (Warning: May Contain Explicit Language) --> Video: Wednesday Report Special Section: Spector Trial Superior Court Judge Larry Paul Fidler rejected a prosecution bid to instruct jurors that Lee is not a credible witness, saying he would allow the jurors to make that decision themselves. Fidler said, "If Dr. Lee has this object he's to produce it forthwith." Lee has been a major witness in such trials as those of OJ.

This story has blown me mind. I am a fan of Henry Lee. I just do not believe her word or his. JMO How do oyu believe ?

[tazzybaby]

Originally Posted by dallasvic

Spector Trial: Lee Will Not Be Held In Contempt
Spector Trial: Lee Will Not Be Held In Contempt. The judge in Phil Spector's murder trial ruled Wednesday that renowned forensic expert Dr. Henry Lee removed something from the scene where actress Lana Clarkson was shot and hid it from the prosecution, but said he would not hold Lee in contempt now because of conflicting accounts of what happened. Live Video: Spector Trial (Warning: May Contain Explicit Language) --> Video: Wednesday Report Special Section: Spector Trial Superior Court Judge Larry Paul Fidler rejected a prosecution bid to instruct jurors that Lee is not a credible witness, saying he would allow the jurors to make that decision themselves. Fidler said, "If Dr. Lee has this object he's to produce it forthwith." Lee has been a major witness in such trials as those of OJ.

This story has blown me mind. I am a fan of Henry Lee. I just do not believe her word or his. JMO How do oyu believe ?

Hi Dallasvic,

I completely agree. I have always felt like he swayed with whichever side he was working for. But, that was just a feeling. I still had much respect for him because he is a great scientist. However, this has really changed my opinion of him as far as being a witness goes. This will also hurt any type of testimony he tries to give in other cases.

[dallasvic]

To tell you truth I would not believe Sara Caplan over Henry Lee. He's older and more experienced in his field. She is not a criminologist. I do not think it is even right for that judge the state that to the jury. Now anything he says the might not believe him. I don't think he would hide evidence.He has to much at stake to ever do something like that.
They are saying that that one piece of evidence could have proved she did not comity suicide,she was trying to put the gun out of her mouth and broke that nail.

[Athena]

Hi all,

The hearing was held outside of the jury, however, the Judge is allowing witnesses to possibly impeach his testimony if and when he testifies for the defense. The Prosecution asked that Lee be held in contempt however the Judge disagreed. I guess we'll have to wait and see so for now I reserve judgment. This actually is not unusual with expert witnesses. JMO

[dallasvic]

This actually is not unusual with expert witnesses. JMO


Hi A,

Can you explain ? What is not unusual ? I really would like to know, I guess I am not very good at trial stuff .Please Help!!! I love to learn new things.


Thanks A

[Athena]

Hi dalla,

I'll try and hope I put it in a way that will make sense. Please anyone who can add or correct what I am saying, please feel free to do so. TIA

Expert witnesses are usually called to supplement or clarify evidence for the State, the Defense or both. In Dr. Lee’s case he will be explaining forensic evidence and what it means to the defense’s case. When expert testimony is given the opposition usually tries to discredit the testimony or at least call it into question. This evidence is being given more attention because of the "celebrity" status of Dr. Lee and the fact that it is a high profile case.

To impeach someone basically is calling into question that witness’ credibility by showing bias, inconsistent statements, character, or dishonesty (in this case withholding evidence). Witnesses will be presented to by the State to testify that they believe Lee did pick up the broken nail by testifying to what they saw. Lee will obviously counteract that testimony to say that it’s a lie by either presenting what was in that vial or just categorically denying it.

Although the judge thinks one of the witnesses may be telling the truth in this case, a contempt charge was withheld because there was conflicting reports and therefore cannot be sure. It will be up to the jurors basically to either believe Lee or the witnesses testifying to discredit him. It could turn out that the jurors are also conflicted after hearing the testimony and may just throw out Lee’s testimony and not consider it during their deliberations at all. Simply it depends on who the jurors believe.

[dallasvic]

Originally Posted by Athena

Hi dalla,

I'll try and hope I put it in a way that will make sense. Please anyone who can add or correct what I am saying, please feel free to do so. TIA

Expert witnesses are usually called to supplement or clarify evidence for the State, the Defense or both. In Dr. Lee’s case he will be explaining forensic evidence and what it means to the defense’s case. When expert testimony is given the opposition usually tries to discredit the testimony or at least call it into question. This evidence is being given more attention because of the "celebrity" status of Dr. Lee and the fact that it is a high profile case.

To impeach someone basically is calling into question that witness’ credibility by showing bias, inconsistent statements, character, or dishonesty (in this case withholding evidence). Witnesses will be presented to by the State to testify that they believe Lee did pick up the broken nail by testifying to what they saw. Lee will obviously counteract that testimony to say that it’s a lie by either presenting what was in that vial or just categorically denying it.

Although the judge thinks one of the witnesses may be telling the truth in this case, a contempt charge was withheld because there was conflicting reports and therefore cannot be sure. It will be up to the jurors basically to either believe Lee or the witnesses testifying to discredit him. It could turn out that the jurors are also conflicted after hearing the testimony and may just throw out Lee’s testimony and not consider it during their deliberations at all. Simply it depends on who the jurors believe.

:lol: Thank you very much. I learned something today!!! Let me ask you this. In your opinion- To me it seems that there is only one person that witnessed this and that was Sara Caplan and she is not a criminologist, so how can she testify against Henry ? He said she likely see him take a cotton swab being( like a Q-Tip) with blood on it and put it in the vial . (Picture it in you mind)holding a Q-Tip and the cotton part at the top. That could look exactly like say taking some tweezers and picking up a nail.
What do you think ? I think I remember seeing a picture like that in that new clip. I am going to go check it out and see and if so I will post the link... Be back shortly

[Athena]

It appears that this is the strongest eye-witness account (from your link) so Lee will have to explain this or deny it:

"Sara Caplan, who said that she saw Lee pick up a white object with a rough edge and place it in a vial during the defense search of the foyer of Spector's mansion."

[attorneywan2be]

I wish they make it a rule to video tape all police and defense activities at crime scenes...I think that would discourage anyone to tamper with evidence..it would also eliminate false accusations of evidence tampering..!

[dallasvic]

The Colt Cobra gun was found by Clarkson's left side. She is right-handed. Prosecutors say this is evidence Spector staged the scene, but the defense says someone may have kicked or otherwise moved the gun.
If someone kicked or moved the gun then they have evidence tampering


Gregory Diamond, the former clerk to defense attorney Robert Shapiro, is testifying that forensics expert Michael Baden identified a white object turned over to him by the defense as a tooth, not a nail. The testimony came as the court tries to determine whether Phil Spector's legal team hid potentially important evidence in his murder case. The evidence is a fingernail allegedly taken from Spector's mansion after the shooting death of Lana Clarkson. Prosecutors in the past have said the fingernail, if it exists, had gunshot residue that could indicate Clarkson shot herself. The defense has denied having the fingernail.


May 02, 2007 | Permalink Los Angeles Times - www.latimes.com
Now its a tooth not a nail.
This is getting to be a mess . Gun kicked or moved and lost evidence.
This one is stating to look bad. Not a very protected crime scene.

Although their accounts differ, there were at least 4 people from the defense side (under the direction of Robert Shapiro) who saw the nail, i.e., Caplan, Diamond Baden and White.

Since I learned about this, I'd wondered if this is the reason Robert Shapiro is no longer the defense attorney in this case.

I have no doubt the nail was found and that it was considered inculpatory evidence or it would not have been kept from the DA.

IMO

[Athena]

Paula -- do you think Dr. Lee really lied? or is it possible it was inadvertent?

Robert Shapiro probably has had his fill after OJ!

In any event the Prosecutors have photos of the acrylic piece of nail that is missing:

http://s196.photobucket.com/albums/a...=combined2.jpg

Originally Posted by Athena

Paula -- do you think Dr. Lee really lied? or is it possible it was inadvertent?

In any event the Prosecutors have photos of the acrylic piece of nail that is missing:

http://s196.photobucket.com/albums/a...=combined2.jpg

I don't believe it was inadvertent. Too many people witnessed evidence which wasn't turned over to the DA. He lost credibility with me since the OJ Simpson case, followed by the Peterson East trial, and now this. I wonder what he would have done if he testified in the Peterson West trial. I believe Dr Lee doesn't is too concerned about testimoney [sic] to offer worthwhile and credible testimony.

I noticed he was conveniently in China at an opportune time, which allowed him to digest the testimony of others before he offered his testimoney [sic].



IMO

ETA: I noticed the photobucket was provided by my good friend Rayny!

[dallasvic]

Originally Posted by Hey Paula

Although their accounts differ, there were at least 4 people from the defense side (under the direction of Robert Shapiro) who saw the nail, i.e., Caplan, Diamond Baden and White.

Since I learned about this, I'd wondered if this is the reason Robert Shapiro is no longer the defense attorney in this case.

I have no doubt the nail was found and that it was considered inculpatory evidence or it would not have been kept from the DA.

IMO

Hi,Paula,

Tell me if I am wrong, but wouldn't it be in the defenses favor if the nail is missing, because they say the nail would prove that Spector put the gun in her mouth and she was trying to pull it out and broke the nail.The nail would have gunshot residue on it they said. What do you think?

[Athena]

Originally Posted by Hey Paula

I don't believe it was inadvertent. Too many people witnessed evidence which wasn't turned over to the DA. He lost credibility with me since the OJ Simpson case, followed by the Peterson East trial, and now this. I wonder what he would have done if he testified in the Peterson West trial. I believe Dr Lee doesn't is too concerned about testimoney [sic] to offer worthwhile and credible testimony.

I noticed he was conveniently in China at an opportune time, which allowed him to digest the testimony of others before he offered his testimoney [sic].



IMO

ETA: I noticed the photobucket was provided by my good friend Rayny!

Who doesn't know Rayny???

[Athena]

Sprocket posted this on the JBR board and I'm just copying it here:

Originally Posted by Sprocket

~off topic of JonBenet~ Responding to the Dr. Lee issue in the Spector case.

I was there in the courtroom when Greg Diamond, and Dr. Baden testified. I was also there when Dr. Lee testified, and when the judge made his ruling.

The judge said that this situation was very similar to the famous Japanese story of "Rashomon" (and at the time, I immediately thought of our own Rashomon here!) where everyone has a different viewpoint about the same event.

The judge ruled some witnesses credible; others not so credible. The judge took into account everything about the witness, even the manner in which they testified.

Three witnesses testified to something being discovered. They all differed in some way as to what it was, who discovered it, and who picked it up. And, the judge received a declaration statement from Robert Shapiro (who was not called to the stand). I believe Robert Shapiro either confirmed Sara Kaplan's testimony and/or his declaration statement was in line with her testimony.

The judge ruled Ms. Caplan's testimony to be the most credible. Something was found. There is no definitive ruling as to what it was. He did not hold Dr. Lee in contempt. He ruled that the prosecution can use all of the testimony at the hearing to challenge Dr. Lee's testimony on the stand, if the defense chooses to use him as an expert witness. The jury is not privy to the judge's ruling that Dr. Lee was not credible. The judge will also be adding a jury instruction on how they are to consider expert testimony, etc., and both counsel's will be drafting language, for the judge to conisder, that they would like the judge to use in that instruction.

[dallasvic]

Originally Posted by Athena

Sprocket posted this on the JBR board and I'm just copying it here:

Hey A,

Thanks for fining that and posting it over here.Make alot of since.
later

You can read a transcript of the entire hearing HERE.

[tazzybaby]

Originally Posted by Hey Paula

Although their accounts differ, there were at least 4 people from the defense side (under the direction of Robert Shapiro) who saw the nail, i.e., Caplan, Diamond Baden and White.

Since I learned about this, I'd wondered if this is the reason Robert Shapiro is no longer the defense attorney in this case.

I have no doubt the nail was found and that it was considered inculpatory evidence or it would not have been kept from the DA.

IMO

Hi Paula,

I completely agree! I don't doubt that it was found either. Especially since there was more than one witness. And, the judge seems to have found what he considers a non biased witness.