My theory (Madeleine)

[sincere]

I just heard a 50 year old British man has been questioned and the house he lives in with his mother is being searched in the hunt for Madeleine McCann. This seems to be the end of the case.
Prove me wrong - but this is my theory.
The fact that the house is situated 1.5 miles from where Madeleine was staying is significant. First time killers usually strike in an area they are comfortable with. I would want to look into his criminal record, maybe an incident in Britain is why he moved to the AlGarve. Why is he living with his mother? Maybe he has difficulty forming friendships/relationships. This may suggest he is single and has been for a long time, why not rent his own place? I would be surprised if he does not have a criminal conviction for at least downloading child pornography but maybe an arrest for indecency with a child. Maybe thats why they moved there in the first place, a fresh start?
It is a sad fact that most abducted children are dead within the hour of being taken. I imagine this is what happened.

He had seen her around the complex on his daily walks, remember only just over a mile from his house is where they were staying, if he does have an interest in children it would be a regular routine for him knowing of course that lots of children would be there all year around on holiday with their families. I bet he saw her one day, or at least saw the family's routine and noted it. He has obviously come back one evening and taken her just after someone checked on Madeleine, there were no reports of screaming or of her 2 siblings being wakened so she was probably still asleep when he took her. I bet he just walked right out and home with her in his arms, people seeing him would naturally assume he was her father. His mother must've been out that night because he wouldve planned this (or at least known after he took her that it was safe to take her home - most killers need somewhere they know is safe and private to take full pleasure in their victim. He will have been fantasising about doing this for years. So of course he gets her home, he will be in a state of high arousal at the fact he has finely done it, and he will in all sureness rape her. Once he has finished the seriousness of what he is doing will hit him but because he already has gone this far he knows there is no going back, he cannot let her leave because she can identify him so he kills her (not because he wants to but because she is a witness) - it was not pre-meditated so he uses whatever is available which in all likelihood would just be his hands to strangle her. He will become aware of the time and probably stuff her in a suitcase (if she is too big he will cut off her legs and arms to fit her) and carry the suitcase out to his car and drive miles out of town to bury her in the hills.

I have been studying criminal behaviour and murderous psychology for about 13 years. I am sure this is what happened.

Time will tell.

[Miguel]

Sincere, the house is only 100 meters from where Madeleine disapeared, not 1.5 miles.
The british man lives with his mother in Portugal but is divorced and has a daughter of 4 years old (very similar to Madeleine) who lives in UK with his ex-wife.

[Jayelles]

Originally Posted by Miguel

Sincere, the house is only 100 meters from where Madeleine disapeared, not 1.5 miles.
The british man lives with his mother in Portugal but is divorced and has a daughter of 4 years old (very similar to Madeleine) who lives in UK with his ex-wife.

He is also 33 - not 50.

[Mishell1383]

Originally Posted by sincere

I just heard a 50 year old British man has been questioned and the house he lives in with his mother is being searched in the hunt for Madeleine McCann. This seems to be the end of the case.
Prove me wrong - but this is my theory.
The fact that the house is situated 1.5 miles from where Madeleine was staying is significant. First time killers usually strike in an area they are comfortable with. I would want to look into his criminal record, maybe an incident in Britain is why he moved to the AlGarve. Why is he living with his mother? Maybe he has difficulty forming friendships/relationships. This may suggest he is single and has been for a long time, why not rent his own place? I would be surprised if he does not have a criminal conviction for at least downloading child pornography but maybe an arrest for indecency with a child. Maybe thats why they moved there in the first place, a fresh start?
It is a sad fact that most abducted children are dead within the hour of being taken. I imagine this is what happened.

He had seen her around the complex on his daily walks, remember only just over a mile from his house is where they were staying, if he does have an interest in children it would be a regular routine for him knowing of course that lots of children would be there all year around on holiday with their families. I bet he saw her one day, or at least saw the family's routine and noted it. He has obviously come back one evening and taken her just after someone checked on Madeleine, there were no reports of screaming or of her 2 siblings being wakened so she was probably still asleep when he took her. I bet he just walked right out and home with her in his arms, people seeing him would naturally assume he was her father. His mother must've been out that night because he wouldve planned this (or at least known after he took her that it was safe to take her home - most killers need somewhere they know is safe and private to take full pleasure in their victim. He will have been fantasising about doing this for years. So of course he gets her home, he will be in a state of high arousal at the fact he has finely done it, and he will in all sureness rape her. Once he has finished the seriousness of what he is doing will hit him but because he already has gone this far he knows there is no going back, he cannot let her leave because she can identify him so he kills her (not because he wants to but because she is a witness) - it was not pre-meditated so he uses whatever is available which in all likelihood would just be his hands to strangle her. He will become aware of the time and probably stuff her in a suitcase (if she is too big he will cut off her legs and arms to fit her) and carry the suitcase out to his car and drive miles out of town to bury her in the hills.

I have been studying criminal behaviour and murderous psychology for about 13 years. I am sure this is what happened.

Time will tell.

you stated that he has been planning this for years, yet its not premeditated. Isn't premeditated planned?

[sincere]

planning something similar in his head - then one day the oppurtunity presented itself and he took it.

[sallynuts]

well,,, sorry,, but sincere,,, you creep me out....,,

You know too much,, and not 'the much' that a person who has been studying this type of case for 13 years,, but 'too much' for me,,, for the kind or person who would say so much,, but still ,, really not know anything,, and i quote the last two posters to you,, because you came undone with there observations, about your analysis...

[Mishell1383]

Originally Posted by sallynuts

well,,, sorry,, but sincere,,, you creep me out....,,

You know too much,, and not 'the much' that a person who has been studying this type of case for 13 years,, but 'too much' for me,,, for the kind or person who would say so much,, but still ,, really not know anything,, and i quote the last two posters to you,, because you came undone with there observations, about your analysis...

He has to many facts wrong to know to much, IMO

[Agentorange]

I have been following the case for a month now and there are plenty of innacuraccies there.

1 - The parents claim to have checked on their children on the night of Maddies disappearance with half hourly checks but in other reports witnesses came forward to say they were sat at the table all night. Another report says that the parents were checking on the children every 50 mins.

3 - Some reports claim that their apartment was on the top floor others the ground floor. If it was the top floor how could a person snatch a child through a window and not be noticed? The police have now said that someone walked through the front door with the child but I thought the parents said they had full veiw of the front door?
Also the key witness is a close friend of the Mccanns. I never like it when you have a witness who claims to be good friends with the family and says they saw a man that looked like they were carrying a child wearing pink pyjamas wrapped up in a blanket. If a child is wrapped in a blanket how can you see what they are wearing?

4 - The parents say that someone forced entry but there was no forced entry. They just left the doors unlocked. Is this normal behaviour for two apparently well educated people from supposedly good backgrounds? You would not be suprised if this carelessness was caused by pair of drunks or drug addicts but two doctors? Why leave the children alone anyway? I am sure with Mrs Mccann being a GP she would have heard about child abuse in her training and also abduction and maybe even dealt with a few cases herself. Wouldn't their proffessions make them wiser about these subjects?

5 - They refused the baby sitting service putting it down to not wanting to disturb their childrens routine but that they are so ready to use it now and don't seem too concerned about their childrens routine.

6 - They do not seem genuinely upset to me and still leave their remaining children at the creche to go jogging, choose outfits for the pope visit and jet off around the world to promote Madeleine's disappearance. Would you leave your remaining children in a place where you had just lost one of your daughters if there is a supposed kidknapper on the loose, especially since the parents believe that they were possibly singled out? A friend of mine who lives in Germany has told me that they have heard of Maddies case over there just like in the UK so why are they ready to travel Europe and not back to Britian to make an appearance there too? They can travel the world but the cannot visit Britian to make an appearance? Why not if they can do this anywhere else?
They have set up a fund for their missing daughter but say they have been advised not to hire private detectives which was the whole point of the fund? Other parents of missing children usually jumped at the chance of additional help (except Susan Smith) but it seems as if they would rather do all the searching themselves? So what is the money from the fund going towards, for them to travel the world alone in search of their child? They neither have the training or the knowledge to know what they are doing but they would still rather do this than get proffessionals to do it for them?
What good will that do?

7 - They claim to be devout catholics yet their children were concieved through IVF. Catholics veiw IVF as sacrilegious. This gives me the impression that they like to manipulate circumstances to their own advantage which they are doing with the fund raising too and still see nothing wrong with leaving children by themselves which is again an act of selfish manipulation. They like to play the victim.

Quote from the father 'We’re in a very safe resort. If you think about the millions and millions of British families who go to the Mediterranean each year, really the chances of this happening are in the order of a hundred million to one.' End quote.
So he still continues to say 'we're in a very safe resort' as in the present tense. Would you still think that after your child just disappeared or would you say 'we THOUGHT we were in a very safe resort?'
I do not like his over confident approach in regards to a resort he has only been to once and where his daughter just disappears into thin air. With all the convenieces of their stories, e.g. they went to dinner on the night of her disappearance, refused baby sitting service and left the doors open doesn't anyone find that this hundred million to one chance of their child being snatched a tad dodgy since their stories seem to fit so perfectly in the light of what has happened? A perfect alibi perhaps to fit a perfect crime? No body, no evidence = no proof which means that no matter how much people will speculate nothing can be done about it.

Quote from the father in regards to the twins 'Quote 'You know, they're here. They do bring you back to Earth. And we cannot grieve one. We did grieve — of course we grieved — but ultimately we need to be in control so that we can influence and help in any way possible. Not just Sean and Amelie, but the investigation. End quote
What do they mean 'did grieve' and 'cannot grieve one'? I thought that they believed that that their daughter is alive and well and refuse to leave no stone unturned in the search for Maddie. People only grieve after a death is this implying that they know something? You may think I am reading too much into this but they are the ones saying that she is certain that she is alive and that they won't return home without Madeliene.

My conclusions are 1 they are either incredibly thick and arrogant and that's all there is to it, 2 going OTT because they don't want to look good, 3 are very materialistic or 4 one or both parents could have killed her before they went to the restaraunt. I have yet to see any reports on witnesses coming forward saying that they saw Maddie during the day of her disappearance, (if there have been reports then I stand corrected) so they could have done something to her even a the night before hence why there is no significant evidence in the apartment because she was never there.
Forensics have claimed that they have found DNA of a complete stranger in the apartment and some fingerprints but this only proves that other guests would have used the apartment before the Mccann's did, they could even be fingerprints from a cleaner and traces of DNA and finger prints can last for years if it hasn't been cleaned away thorougly.
Another possibility is that they staged an abduction or sold the child themselves and know where their child is. They could have done this for many reasons. Drug, gambling debts/ blackmail anything. The way the family started their fund very quickly was also odd almost planned if you like. They could have decided that if they make enough money they can set up a new life abroad and avoid the British police or whatever they seem to be so afraid of in Britian.

The police are probably playing stupid because in a case like this they will probably need a confession or proof pointing towards the parents, If they have neither they will have to try and get it out of them by letting them slip up.

Apparently they have asked Max Clifford to help them. Enough said

And remember just because these parents are doctors that doesn't mean they are decent. Just look at Harold Shipman.

[Jayelles]

I am not going to get involved in discussions which attack the McCanns but I will say that I agree with your comment about there being a lot of conflicting reports - much of it is misinformation.

First of all, they didn't "refuse" babysitting services. There are a few options options offered - a creche, a baby listening service where someone goes around and listens at doors. If a baby is heard crying, the parents will be contacted (they usually give the parents a pager). Babysitting can also be arranged locally but it's usually a private arrangement and not endorsed by the hotel or holiday company. According to the grandparents, the McCann's didn't want a stranger to babysit their children and chose to do their own baby listening within their group of friends. They were with other couples and it seems that they all took turns to go and check on all the children so anyone saying that the McCann's didn't personally go and check their own children were probably right - because they were taking it in turns with their friends. Arguably, this arragement is better than the standard baby listening service which only listens at doors. At least they were going into the apartment and physically checking on the children.

The forced entry wasn't through the door, but through a window.

I don't know what the Catholic Church's views on IVF are, but my friend is currently going through IVF and she is a practicing Catholic. I'm not sure what this has to do with anything.

I was not aware that the "whole purpose" of the fund was to hire private detectives, indeed I heard it stated on tv BEFORE the fund was finalised that they had been advised not to use it for private detectives. I gave to the fund believing that it would be used for a variety of purposes - not least of all to support this family whose lives are on hold in a foreign country. I cannot begin to imagine their suffering and feelings of despair and desperation. I know how I'd feel if it were one of my children.

Kate's mother stated that no-one will hurt these parents more than they are already hurting. When I read some of the stuff that's being posted about them I take comfort from that. I could never kick someone at the lowest point in their life.

[Agentorange]

[quote=Jayelles;8867760]I am not going to get involved in discussions which attack the McCanns but I will say that I agree with your comment about there being a lot of conflicting reports - much of it is misinformation.

I am not attacking the McCanns I am simply pointing out some areas that look suspicious and see their stories conflicting once too often. This could also be down to the media getting facts muddled but their behaviour does raise suspicion.
Like you said you have heard different in the papers and I have too but the doubts in my mind about them are purely based on what I have read and are in no way malicious.

I also heard that they wanted to check on the babies themselves but since witnesses have come forward and said they did not check on their children all night it's hard to know which story is correct. If more than one person says that they weren't checking on the children why would they all lie?

I read that the fund would go towards finding Maddie and getting proffessionals hired by the family to help look for her but they seem to be doing everything on their own.

I would never try to change anyones mind if they see the parents as innocent that is their opinion and I respect that but as much as I would like to believe they are innocent they are not coming across that way.

Also if someone seays they are a devout catholic as the McCanns claim to me than they obviously can't be that serious about religion. To practice catholictism can mean many things but for one to claim they are devout is another story.

[sincere]

Originally Posted by sallynuts

well,,, sorry,, but sincere,,, you creep me out....,,

You know too much,, and not 'the much' that a person who has been studying this type of case for 13 years,, but 'too much' for me,,, for the kind or person who would say so much,, but still ,, really not know anything,, and i quote the last two posters to you,, because you came undone with there observations, about your analysis...

Didnt mean to sound weird, but the sad fact is cases like this do involve (usually) sexual perverts and predators which of course means there will be unpleasant happenings and a sad outcome. This is the cold hard truth.

[Sharon]

Originally Posted by sincere

Didnt mean to sound weird, but the sad fact is cases like this do involve (usually) sexual perverts and predators which of course means there will be unpleasant happenings and a sad outcome. This is the cold hard truth.

I think everyone knows what the worst case senario could be. I know you are trying to profile the perp. so we know what we are dealing with. It`s just a bit insensitive to go into all the details at this stage when there may be still hope. Although every day that passes, makes Madeline`s safetey more of a worry. It is very sad and I truely hope the worst hasnt happened. jmo

[Mishell1383]

Originally Posted by Sharon

I think everyone knows what the worst case senario could be. I know you are trying to profile the perp. so we know what we are dealing with. It`s just a bit insensitive to go into all the details at this stage when there may be still hope. Although every day that passes, makes Madeline`s safetey more of a worry. It is very sad and I truely hope the worst hasnt happened. jmo

yes I agree Sharon, I think it would be best Sincere if you refrained from spelling it out, I think its getting a little ridiculous. And I'm not quite fond of you posting your little FACT tidbits. None of what you post is fact. It is also a Crime Library RULE to post imo after you state an opinon, which everything you posted is frankly, your opinion. Unless of course you can provide a link stating "the cold hard truth" In which we all know does not exist. Thank you


imo

[sincere]

Originally Posted by Mishell1383

yes I agree Sharon, I think it would be best Sincere if you refrained from spelling it out, I think its getting a little ridiculous. And I'm not quite fond of you posting your little FACT tidbits. None of what you post is fact. It is also a Crime Library RULE to post imo after you state an opinon, which everything you posted is frankly, your opinion. Unless of course you can provide a link stating "the cold hard truth" In which we all know does not exist. Thank you


imo

I didnt mean its the "cold hard truth" in this particular case, but just in child murders/abductions in general. Its sad but there is no point at looking at these things with rose-tinted glasses. Thats all Im saying, I pray Madeleine will be found ok, of course I do, just going with the fact this is a crime site - not a "Find Madeleine" site, and so we should talk about what might have happened to her instead of blindly assuming she is wrapped up in warm blankets being loved by a senile old kind woman somewhere when that is more than likely not the case.
IMO

[Sharon]

Originally Posted by sincere

I didnt mean its the "cold hard truth" in this particular case, but just in child murders/abductions in general. Its sad but there is no point at looking at these things with rose-tinted glasses. Thats all Im saying, I pray Madeleine will be found ok, of course I do, just going with the fact this is a crime site - not a "Find Madeleine" site, and so we should talk about what might have happened to her instead of blindly assuming she is wrapped up in warm blankets being loved by a senile old kind woman somewhere when that is more than likely not the case.
IMO

What dont you understand about time and place? Really you need to listen when people tell you politely not to go on about something, instead of just doing it again. There are other places on this site to talk about what you want to, but going to the thread of a still missing child is not the place for this discussion. imo

[Mishell1383]

Originally Posted by sincere

I didnt mean its the "cold hard truth" in this particular case, but just in child murders/abductions in general. Its sad but there is no point at looking at these things with rose-tinted glasses. Thats all Im saying, I pray Madeleine will be found ok, of course I do, just going with the fact this is a crime site - not a "Find Madeleine" site, and so we should talk about what might have happened to her instead of blindly assuming she is wrapped up in warm blankets being loved by a senile old kind woman somewhere when that is more than likely not the case.
IMO

no ones blindly assuming, but there is always still hope. Thats all there is to it.

[TuscanDreams]

I've done research on human trafficking for grad school. Has this been ruled out? Anyone know?

I know this is a HUGE stretch, but considering that the chidren who are trafficked on the illegal adoption market are nominally caucasian, blond hair and blue eyed (Russian, Romanians, etc predominantly) and it makes me just wonder if maybe Maddie is alive and well.

[TuscanDreams]

Originally Posted by Mishell1383

no ones blindly assuming, but there is always still hope. Thats all there is to it.

Amen to that! I'm believing that Maddie is alive until proven differently.

[DigitalDreamKat]

Originally Posted by TuscanDreams

I've done research on human trafficking for grad school. Has this been ruled out? Anyone know?

I know this is a HUGE stretch, but considering that the chidren who are trafficked on the illegal adoption market are nominally caucasian, blond hair and blue eyed (Russian, Romanians, etc predominantly) and it makes me just wonder if maybe Maddie is alive and well.

True, but why choose a Portuguese resort? Any why Maddie? Wouldn't it have been easier to take one of the twins instead? Much smaller for a start.

I'm not ruling out that Maddie is still alive, there have been a few cases covered on CL where children have gone missing, only to turn up again in seven years or more.

All, as usual, JMO

[Meemers]

If a stranger were carrying that child out of the house, at some point she would wake up and surely scream.

[andU]

Originally Posted by Meemers

If a stranger were carrying that child out of the house, at some point she would wake up and surely scream.

Perhaps not if she were sedated.

[Mysteri]

Originally Posted by Agentorange

I have been following the case for a month now and there are plenty of innacuraccies there.

1 - The parents claim to have checked on their children on the night of Maddies disappearance with half hourly checks but in other reports witnesses came forward to say they were sat at the table all night. Another report says that the parents were checking on the children every 50 mins.

3 - Some reports claim that their apartment was on the top floor others the ground floor. If it was the top floor how could a person snatch a child through a window and not be noticed? The police have now said that someone walked through the front door with the child but I thought the parents said they had full veiw of the front door?
Also the key witness is a close friend of the Mccanns. I never like it when you have a witness who claims to be good friends with the family and says they saw a man that looked like they were carrying a child wearing pink pyjamas wrapped up in a blanket. If a child is wrapped in a blanket how can you see what they are wearing?

4 - The parents say that someone forced entry but there was no forced entry. They just left the doors unlocked. Is this normal behaviour for two apparently well educated people from supposedly good backgrounds? You would not be suprised if this carelessness was caused by pair of drunks or drug addicts but two doctors? Why leave the children alone anyway? I am sure with Mrs Mccann being a GP she would have heard about child abuse in her training and also abduction and maybe even dealt with a few cases herself. Wouldn't their proffessions make them wiser about these subjects?

5 - They refused the baby sitting service putting it down to not wanting to disturb their childrens routine but that they are so ready to use it now and don't seem too concerned about their childrens routine.

6 - They do not seem genuinely upset to me and still leave their remaining children at the creche to go jogging, choose outfits for the pope visit and jet off around the world to promote Madeleine's disappearance. Would you leave your remaining children in a place where you had just lost one of your daughters if there is a supposed kidknapper on the loose, especially since the parents believe that they were possibly singled out? A friend of mine who lives in Germany has told me that they have heard of Maddies case over there just like in the UK so why are they ready to travel Europe and not back to Britian to make an appearance there too? They can travel the world but the cannot visit Britian to make an appearance? Why not if they can do this anywhere else?
They have set up a fund for their missing daughter but say they have been advised not to hire private detectives which was the whole point of the fund? Other parents of missing children usually jumped at the chance of additional help (except Susan Smith) but it seems as if they would rather do all the searching themselves? So what is the money from the fund going towards, for them to travel the world alone in search of their child? They neither have the training or the knowledge to know what they are doing but they would still rather do this than get proffessionals to do it for them?
What good will that do?

7 - They claim to be devout catholics yet their children were concieved through IVF. Catholics veiw IVF as sacrilegious. This gives me the impression that they like to manipulate circumstances to their own advantage which they are doing with the fund raising too and still see nothing wrong with leaving children by themselves which is again an act of selfish manipulation. They like to play the victim.

Quote from the father 'We’re in a very safe resort. If you think about the millions and millions of British families who go to the Mediterranean each year, really the chances of this happening are in the order of a hundred million to one.' End quote.
So he still continues to say 'we're in a very safe resort' as in the present tense. Would you still think that after your child just disappeared or would you say 'we THOUGHT we were in a very safe resort?'
I do not like his over confident approach in regards to a resort he has only been to once and where his daughter just disappears into thin air. With all the convenieces of their stories, e.g. they went to dinner on the night of her disappearance, refused baby sitting service and left the doors open doesn't anyone find that this hundred million to one chance of their child being snatched a tad dodgy since their stories seem to fit so perfectly in the light of what has happened? A perfect alibi perhaps to fit a perfect crime? No body, no evidence = no proof which means that no matter how much people will speculate nothing can be done about it.

Quote from the father in regards to the twins 'Quote 'You know, they're here. They do bring you back to Earth. And we cannot grieve one. We did grieve — of course we grieved — but ultimately we need to be in control so that we can influence and help in any way possible. Not just Sean and Amelie, but the investigation. End quote
What do they mean 'did grieve' and 'cannot grieve one'? I thought that they believed that that their daughter is alive and well and refuse to leave no stone unturned in the search for Maddie. People only grieve after a death is this implying that they know something? You may think I am reading too much into this but they are the ones saying that she is certain that she is alive and that they won't return home without Madeliene.

My conclusions are 1 they are either incredibly thick and arrogant and that's all there is to it, 2 going OTT because they don't want to look good, 3 are very materialistic or 4 one or both parents could have killed her before they went to the restaraunt. I have yet to see any reports on witnesses coming forward saying that they saw Maddie during the day of her disappearance, (if there have been reports then I stand corrected) so they could have done something to her even a the night before hence why there is no significant evidence in the apartment because she was never there.
Forensics have claimed that they have found DNA of a complete stranger in the apartment and some fingerprints but this only proves that other guests would have used the apartment before the Mccann's did, they could even be fingerprints from a cleaner and traces of DNA and finger prints can last for years if it hasn't been cleaned away thorougly.
Another possibility is that they staged an abduction or sold the child themselves and know where their child is. They could have done this for many reasons. Drug, gambling debts/ blackmail anything. The way the family started their fund very quickly was also odd almost planned if you like. They could have decided that if they make enough money they can set up a new life abroad and avoid the British police or whatever they seem to be so afraid of in Britian.

The police are probably playing stupid because in a case like this they will probably need a confession or proof pointing towards the parents, If they have neither they will have to try and get it out of them by letting them slip up.

Apparently they have asked Max Clifford to help them. Enough said

And remember just because these parents are doctors that doesn't mean they are decent. Just look at Harold Shipman.

Max Clifford ?!?! Great scot !!
I believe you are on the right track !
It's looks like Madeleine received too much sedative:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1811

imo

[Deep Thought]

CHARGE http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHARGE_syndrome

Coloboma http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coloboma

The theory appears to have been that the gods sent disease or ills when they desired a human life..

The purpose of the sacrifice, namely, fertility, is indicated in the poetical version of the cult of Cromm--

"Milk and corn?They would ask from him speedily,?In return for one-third of their healthy issue."*

Of all these varieties of human sacrifice, those offered for fertility, probably at Beltane or Midsummer, were the most important.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/celt/rac/rac19.htm

Beltane or Bealtaine (Irish, pronounced IPA /?b??l?.t???.n???/) is an ancient Gaelic holiday celebrated around May 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beltane

They used to strike a human being, devoted to death, in the back with a sword, and then divine from his death struggle.. http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient...ifice_02.shtml

..and they would not sacrifice without the presence of the Druids http://www.digitalmedievalist.com/faqs/sacrific.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/new...6670831&news=1

The blood was sprinkled on the image of the god http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/celt/rac/rac19.htm

John Barrett, a former Scotland Yard dog handler, also indicated that the trained dogs used in an attempt to detect a "death smell" on Mrs McCann's Bible and clothes were brought in too long after Madeleine vanished. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../nmcann109.xml

The Druids announced that the remedy was to slay the son of an undefiled couple and sprinkle the doorposts and the land with his blood.http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/new...6674729&news=1

Bog http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peat_bog

Conservation areas of Portugal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conserv...as_of_Portugal

Peneda-Gerês National Park http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peneda-Gerês_National_Park

[Meemers]

Of course andU. What was I (not) thinking.

[Sharona]

Hi everyone -

I've been thinking - if the parents did do it, how could they go to dinner & act perfectly normal, not to mention how normal they're acting now? They don't even act the least bit upset. I would be a basket case & have to be hospitalized, if it was my child missing.

[Jayelles]

Originally Posted by Sharona

Hi everyone -

I've been thinking - if the parents did do it, how could they go to dinner & act perfectly normal, not to mention how normal they're acting now? They don't even act the least bit upset. I would be a basket case & have to be hospitalized, if it was my child missing.

One of the Sunday Paper columnists wrote about this type of comment yesterday. She is a hard hitting columnist who has until now refrained from commenting about the case at all, but she felt she had to say something about people who say that the McCanns don't seem upset and made some points about it:-

1. That the fact they aren't constantly breaking down in front of the media cameras doesn't mean that they don't shed tears away from the cameras.

2. That these are two doctors - trained to remain calm in a crisis. What good is a hysterical doctor?

In fact, Kate McCann has broken down. In the very early press statements they made, Kate didn't speak at all - she was clearly in shock. Then some time later, she made an appeal and her voice was breaking.

Then there are eye-witness reports of Gerery breaking down:-

Waiters at the restaurant where Kate and Gerry were eating the night Maddie disappeared called Gerry “the perfect dad”.

One said: “He was always giving her hugs. Gerry spent 80 per cent of his time with her while the mum tried to feed the twins.”

He said he saw Gerry hours later after Maddie vanished. He added: “He was desperate. He was crying and screaming out her name over and over again.”

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2007430135,00.html

Don't you think it would be much easier for them to break down/cry/sob for the cameras if they were putting on an act? At least that way they wouldn't have to do much speaking.

IMO, this family have received a double whammee. First their little daughter gets snatched, then they get tried and convicted by people who accept sensational tabloid garbage as "evidence".

[Mishell1383]

Originally Posted by Jayelles

One of the Sunday Paper columnists wrote about this type of comment yesterday. She is a hard hitting columnist who has until now refrained from commenting about the case at all, but she felt she had to say something about people who say that the McCanns don't seem upset and made some points about it:-

1. That the fact they aren't constantly breaking down in front of the media cameras doesn't mean that they don't shed tears away from the cameras.

2. That these are two doctors - trained to remain calm in a crisis. What good is a hysterical doctor?

In fact, Kate McCann has broken down. In the very early press statements they made, Kate didn't speak at all - she was clearly in shock. Then some time later, she made an appeal and her voice was breaking.

Then there are eye-witness reports of Gerery breaking down:-



http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2007430135,00.html

Don't you think it would be much easier for them to break down/cry/sob for the cameras if they were putting on an act? At least that way they wouldn't have to do much speaking.

IMO, this family have received a double whammee. First their little daughter gets snatched, then they get tried and convicted by people who accept sensational tabloid garbage as "evidence".

I agree jayelles, I also read somewhere that they have hired an abduction expert and this particular expert has advised the McCann's not to show emotion or it will give the "abductor/kidnapper" some good kicks

[charmaine]

Originally Posted by Mishell1383

I agree jayelles, I also read somewhere that they have hired an abduction expert and this particular expert has advised the McCann's not to show emotion or it will give the "abductor/kidnapper" some good kicks

Im not offering an opinion either way but the discussion on the McCanns lack of public emotion reminds me of Lindy Chamberlain and her assumed guilt because of her stoic display of strength in public. This led to many falsely believing her to be guilty. Hopefully, time will reveal the truth in regards to the McCanns.

[Charon]

I personally think the cops are going about this thing ***** to front.

Look, it's okay to investigate the parents since SO many perpetrators turned out to be the parents in other instances. But more often than not, are they completely innocent. Yes keep a number of members on them all the time, but dont get blind sighted and loose perspective.

That poor kid is still out there somewhere and eventhough I personally gave up hope finding her alive, will her discovery, dead or alive, shed so much light on everything.

IF she's still "okay", will all hell be loose if she could have been found in time before something worse happened to her. The cops need to carry on as if her parents does not exist. Their first responsibility is towards that girl and no one else. They are making matters worse, I'm afraid.

[JBRnotforgotten]

You know sometime I have set and tried to figure out how I feel about this case and it is so wishy washy ... I dont in my heart feel the parents did it and then some of the so called evidence comes up and my feeling goes another way and then back and forth. But what I will say of course in MY OPINION only is that.....If Kate and Gerry did this and was just so called telling people they were checking on the kids every 15 minutes , surely the distroughtness would show through at some point during dinner...Unless all together they were heartless cold blooded killers, which I dont think so .
And if they are 100 percent innoccent I do not know how they manage all the hurt they are feeling with Madeline gone and people accusing them of this..I dont agree leaving children alone and all but I am sure that they learned a lesson that nobody will ever have to teach them again( God I hope not) but I know as a parent I make mistakes and what if a mistake you make turns badly like this and you know you are innoccent and being accused what would you do , how would you feel..
I also ask myself how come someone would take just Madeline and not the twins if they were so called into children so much, I dont know the answer to that still .. I would love to hear opinions on that question if anyone has one to state..
I hope I have not come across weird or like some one who dont know what I am talking about . I am just here to help find information on Madeline and see what everyone thinks about the dissapearance of her..

[Deep Thought]

LOOK INTO MY EYES..


There has been a revival in talismanic child sacrifice, that is, the mutilation and murder of young children in the belief that this will achieve material gains either in the form of power or wealth, according to a report by the Anti-Slavery Society. 

It involves, according to the report, the severing of limbs and other parts while the child is alive, the pain experienced by the child augments or intensifies the potency of the sacrifice as the child's cries awakens dark supernatural powers.

Human sacrifice of children was formerly restricted to Africa and eastern India. It now extends to the United Kingdom and Western Europe. The material in this report is based on Missions to West Africa and India by the Society's Secretary-General.

The Society completed a Mission to Africa to investigate talismanic child sacrifice involving the organized ritual mutilation and ritual murder of young children by powerful politicians and wealthy businessmen. http://www.anti-slaverysociety.addr.com/sacrifice.htm

Coloboma. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coloboma

CHARGE. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHARGE_syndrome

The theory appears to have been that the gods sent disease or ills when they desired a human life..

Of all these varieties of human sacrifice, those offered for fertility, probably at Beltane or Midsummer, were the most important. http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/celt/rac/rac19.htm

Beltane or Bealtaine is an ancient Gaelic holiday celebrated around May 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beltane

They used to strike a human being, devoted to death, in the back with a sword, and then divine from his death struggle.. http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient...ifice_02.shtml

..and they would not sacrifice without the presence of the Druidshttp://www.digitalmedievalist.com/faqs/sacrific.html

The Druids announced that the remedy was to slay the son of an undefiled couple and sprinkle the doorposts and the land with his blood. http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/celt/rac/rac19.htm

Some, such as the Yde Girl in the Netherlands and bog bodies in Ireland, had the hair on one side of their heads closely cropped. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bog_body

But the most interesting clues were in his intestines: mistletoe pollen, a sacred Celtic plant, and a small piece of charred oak cake, called bannock bread.

When Romans began invading the British Isle in 55 BC, they reported that Iron Age Celts often performed ritual sacrifices during “Beltain,” a spring festival that occurred when mistletoe would have been in bloom.

During these celebrations, pieces of bannock bread—including one charred piece—were doled out, and the soon-to-be lucky stiff who picked the burnt piece became the sacrificial lamb.

Olsen says mistletoe, slipped into food or eaten willingly, might have acted as a sedative, creating a tractable state. (Mistletoe has long been administered as an antispasmodic, tonic, or narcotic.) http://carnegiemuseums.org/cmag/bk_i.../feature4.html

Ergot. http://www.people.vcu.edu/~asneden/T...0Alkaloids.pdf

Ergotism. It is also known as ergotoxicosis, ergot poisoning and St Anthony's fire.

In the Middle Ages the gangrenous poisoning was known as ignis sacer ("holy fire") or "Saint Anthony's fire", named after monks of the Order of St. Anthony who were particularly successful at treating this ailment. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergotism

Ergot contains a chemical that makes the sufferers go berserk and causes gangrene of the hands and feet due to constriction of blood supply to the extremities. If it is not treated (and this was not possible in the Middle Ages), victims had the sensation of being burned at the stake, before their fingers, toes, hands and feet dropped off. http://www.medicinenet.com/script/ma...ticlekey=14891

Beltane. The name itself is thought to have derived from a Gaelic-Celtic word meaning 'bright/sacred fire'. http://www.beltane.org/en/festivals/...index.en.shtml

Ergot has great popularity in the medical profession at the present time, in the treatment of subacute inflammatory troubles, particularly of the spinal marrow. http://chestofbooks.com/health/refer...Medicines.html

Bog. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peat_bog

Peneda-Gerês National Park. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peneda-Gerês_National_Park


.. NO STONE UNTURNED!!

[Deep Thought]

LOOK INTO MY EYES..


There has been a revival in talismanic child sacrifice, that is, the mutilation and murder of young children in the belief that this will achieve material gains either in the form of power or wealth, according to a report by the Anti-Slavery Society.

It involves, according to the report, the severing of limbs and other parts while the child is alive, the pain experienced by the child augments or intensifies the potency of the sacrifice as the child's cries awakens dark supernatural powers.

Human sacrifice of children was formerly restricted to Africa and eastern India. It now extends to the United Kingdom and Western Europe. The material in this report is based on Missions to West Africa and India by the Society's Secretary-General.

The Society completed a Mission to Africa to investigate talismanic child sacrifice involving the organized ritual mutilation and ritual murder of young children by powerful politicians and wealthy businessmen. http://www.anti-slaverysociety.addr.com/sacrifice.htm

Coloboma. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coloboma

CHARGE. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHARGE_syndrome

The theory appears to have been that the gods sent disease or ills when they desired a human life..

Of all these varieties of human sacrifice, those offered for fertility, probably at Beltane or Midsummer, were the most important. http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/celt/rac/rac19.htm

Beltane or Bealtaine is an ancient Gaelic holiday celebrated around May 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beltane

They used to strike a human being, devoted to death, in the back with a sword, and then divine from his death struggle.. http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient...ifice_02.shtml

..and they would not sacrifice without the presence of the Druidshttp://www.digitalmedievalist.com/faqs/sacrific.html

The Druids announced that the remedy was to slay the son of an undefiled couple and sprinkle the doorposts and the land with his blood. http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/celt/rac/rac19.htm

Some, such as the Yde Girl in the Netherlands and bog bodies in Ireland, had the hair on one side of their heads closely cropped. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bog_body

But the most interesting clues were in his intestines: mistletoe pollen, a sacred Celtic plant, and a small piece of charred oak cake, called bannock bread.

When Romans began invading the British Isle in 55 BC, they reported that Iron Age Celts often performed ritual sacrifices during “Beltain,” a spring festival that occurred when mistletoe would have been in bloom.

During these celebrations, pieces of bannock bread, including one charred piece, were doled out, and the soon-to-be lucky stiff who picked the burnt piece became the sacrificial lamb.

Olsen says mistletoe, slipped into food or eaten willingly, might have acted as a sedative, creating a tractable state. (Mistletoe has long been administered as an antispasmodic, tonic, or narcotic.) http://carnegiemuseums.org/cmag/bk_i.../feature4.html

Ergot. http://www.people.vcu.edu/~asneden/T...0Alkaloids.pdf

Ergotism. It is also known as ergotoxicosis, ergot poisoning and St Anthony's fire.

In the Middle Ages the gangrenous poisoning was known as ignis sacer ("holy fire") or "Saint Anthony's fire", named after monks of the Order of St. Anthony who were particularly successful at treating this ailment. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergotism

Ergot contains a chemical that makes the sufferers go berserk and causes gangrene of the hands and feet due to constriction of blood supply to the extremities. If it is not treated (and this was not possible in the Middle Ages), victims had the sensation of being burned at the stake, before their fingers, toes, hands and feet dropped off. http://www.medicinenet.com/script/ma...ticlekey=14891

Beltane. The name itself is thought to have derived from a Gaelic-Celtic word meaning 'bright/sacred fire'. http://www.beltane.org/en/festivals/...index.en.shtml

Nitrate of Potassium is a sedative, cooling medicine, not now very largely used by physicians. Digitalis was once considered a sedative; now it is called a tonic to the heart. Ergot has great popularity in the medical profession at the present time, in the treatment of subacute inflammatory troubles, particularly of the spinal marrow. None of these last, nitrate of potassium, digitalis, or ergot, can be advantageously used without medical advice. http://chestofbooks.com/health/refer...Medicines.html

Bog. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peat_bog

Peneda-Gerês National Park. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peneda-Gerês_National_Park


.. NO STONE UNTURNED!!

[One2Snoop]

Are you saying you think Maddie was abducted for child sacrafice reasons or did you mean to post this elsewhere?

[Deep Thought]

Nitrate of Potassium is a sedative, cooling medicine, not now very largely used by physicians. Digitalis was once considered a sedative; now it is called a tonic to the heart. Ergot has great popularity in the medical profession at the present time, in the treatment of subacute inflammatory troubles, particularly of the spinal marrow. None of these last, nitrate of potassium, digitalis, or ergot, can be advantageously used without medical advice.


http://chestofbooks.com/health/refer...Medicines.html


Olsen says mistletoe, slipped into food or eaten willingly, might have acted as a sedative, creating a tractable state. (Mistletoe has long been administered as an antispasmodic, tonic, or narcotic.)


http://carnegiemuseums.org/cmag/bk_i.../feature4.html


Although the berries of both American and European mistletoe have long been considered poisonous, the leaves, in the form of a tea, have a considerable reputation as a home remedy. The reputed uses of the two plants are as different as their names. American mistletoe is believed to stimulate smooth muscles, causing a rise in blood pressure and increased uterine and intestinal contractions. European mistletoe has precisely the opposite reputation of reducing blood pressure and acting as an antispasmodic and calmative agent.


European mistletoe is chiefly used to lower blood pressure and heart rate, ease anxiety, and promote sleep.


.. mistletoes grown on Duboisia species contain toxic solanaceous alkaloids and those grown on oleander contain potent cardiac glycosides. The identity of the host plants on which the parasitic mistletoe is found is therefore extremely important if the crude plant material is to be used as a medicine.


http://www.herbs2000.com/herbs/herbs_mistletoe.htm


Oleander is one of the most poisonous plants and contains numerous toxic compounds, many of which can be deadly to people, especially young children.


It is native to a broad area from Morocco and Portugal eastward through the Mediterranean region..


Ingestion can cause both gastrointestinal and cardiac effects. The gastrointestinal effects can consist of nausea and vomiting, excess salivation, abdominal pain, diarrhea that may or may not contain blood..


Poisoning and reactions to Oleander plants are evident quickly, requiring immediate medical care in suspected or known poisonings of both humans and animals (Goetz 1998). Induced vomiting and gastric lavage are protective measures to reduce absorption of the toxic compounds. Charcoal may also be administered to help absorb any remaining toxins (Inchem 2005). Further medical attention may be required and will depend on the severity of the poisoning and symptoms.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleander


07:05 http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?...95848&hl=en-GB

[Seashell]

Originally Posted by Agentorange

I have been following the case for a month now and there are plenty of innacuraccies there.

1 - The parents claim to have checked on their children on the night of Maddies disappearance with half hourly checks but in other reports witnesses came forward to say they were sat at the table all night. Another report says that the parents were checking on the children every 50 mins.

I was wondering if i was the only person to see this, am i glad i found your post, i have travelled with my daughters when they were same age as these children and i would never ever leave them alone sleeping or i would ask for the hotel babysitter services in case we did go out.

3 - Some reports claim that their apartment was on the top floor others the ground floor. If it was the top floor how could a person snatch a child through a window and not be noticed? The police have now said that someone walked through the front door with the child but I thought the parents said they had full veiw of the front door?
Also the key witness is a close friend of the Mccanns. I never like it when you have a witness who claims to be good friends with the family and says they saw a man that looked like they were carrying a child wearing pink pyjamas wrapped up in a blanket. If a child is wrapped in a blanket how can you see what they are wearing?

true!

4 - The parents say that someone forced entry but there was no forced entry. They just left the doors unlocked. Is this normal behaviour for two apparently well educated people from supposedly good backgrounds? You would not be suprised if this carelessness was caused by pair of drunks or drug addicts but two doctors? Why leave the children alone anyway? I am sure with Mrs Mccann being a GP she would have heard about child abuse in her training and also abduction and maybe even dealt with a few cases herself. Wouldn't their proffessions make them wiser about these subjects?

i agree.

5 - They refused the baby sitting service putting it down to not wanting to disturb their childrens routine but that they are so ready to use it now and don't seem too concerned about their childrens routine.

well pointed out.

6 - They do not seem genuinely upset to me and still leave their remaining children at the creche to go jogging, choose outfits for the pope visit and jet off around the world to promote Madeleine's disappearance. Would you leave your remaining children in a place where you had just lost one of your daughters if there is a supposed kidknapper on the loose, especially since the parents believe that they were possibly singled out? A friend of mine who lives in Germany has told me that they have heard of Maddies case over there just like in the UK so why are they ready to travel Europe and not back to Britian to make an appearance there too? They can travel the world but the cannot visit Britian to make an appearance? Why not if they can do this anywhere else?
They have set up a fund for their missing daughter but say they have been advised not to hire private detectives which was the whole point of the fund? Other parents of missing children usually jumped at the chance of additional help (except Susan Smith) but it seems as if they would rather do all the searching themselves? So what is the money from the fund going towards, for them to travel the world alone in search of their child? They neither have the training or the knowledge to know what they are doing but they would still rather do this than get proffessionals to do it for them?
What good will that do?

true.

What do they mean 'did grieve' and 'cannot grieve one'? I thought that they believed that that their daughter is alive and well and refuse to leave no stone unturned in the search for Maddie. People only grieve after a death is this implying that they know something? You may think I am reading too much into this but they are the ones saying that she is certain that she is alive and that they won't return home without Madeliene.

questionable indeed.

My conclusions are 1 they are either incredibly thick and arrogant and that's all there is to it, 2 going OTT because they don't want to look good, 3 are very materialistic or 4 one or both parents could have killed her before they went to the restaraunt. I have yet to see any reports on witnesses coming forward saying that they saw Maddie during the day of her disappearance, (if there have been reports then I stand corrected) so they could have done something to her even a the night before hence why there is no significant evidence in the apartment because she was never there.
Forensics have claimed that they have found DNA of a complete stranger in the apartment and some fingerprints but this only proves that other guests would have used the apartment before the Mccann's did, they could even be fingerprints from a cleaner and traces of DNA and finger prints can last for years if it hasn't been cleaned away thorougly.
Another possibility is that they staged an abduction or sold the child themselves and know where their child is. They could have done this for many reasons. Drug, gambling debts/ blackmail anything. The way the family started their fund very quickly was also odd almost planned if you like. They could have decided that if they make enough money they can set up a new life abroad and avoid the British police or whatever they seem to be so afraid of in Britian.

The police are probably playing stupid because in a case like this they will probably need a confession or proof pointing towards the parents, If they have neither they will have to try and get it out of them by letting them slip up.

Apparently they have asked Max Clifford to help them. Enough said

And remember just because these parents are doctors that doesn't mean they are decent. Just look at Harold Shipman.

well said!

[Jayelles]

The report didn't say HOW the blanket was wrapped around the child. If it were merely wrapped around her shoulders it would be perfectly possible to see her pjs. All it would take would be for one arm or leg to be exposed and the colour of the pjs would be apparent.

ETA - this guy is wrapped in a blanket, yet I can see he's wearing a yellow t-shirt and blue jeans

http://justinsomnia.org/images/justi...al-day-bbq.jpg

This little girl is wrapped in a blanket, yet you can see she's wearing some sort of cream dress or gown

http://static-p.arttoday.com/thw/thw...l_with_blanket

[Eagle1]

Originally Posted by TuscanDreams

I've done research on human trafficking for grad school. Has this been ruled out? Anyone know?

I know this is a HUGE stretch, but considering that the chidren who are trafficked on the illegal adoption market are nominally caucasian, blond hair and blue eyed (Russian, Romanians, etc predominantly) and it makes me just wonder if maybe Maddie is alive and well.

This is what I'm thinking too, and hoping, since it means maybe she's still alive. There have been a lot of alleged sightings. Just maybe the woman, approximately 60 yrs old, who seems to be travelling around with her is "showing" her by appointment?

That's going out on a limb a bit, but anything to try to help find this adorable child who's going through such a nightmare if she is alive. Someone at another forum said her mother had wanted a girl, and just tolerated her until her brother was born, then put her into "Care". I've posted this in another thread also, shows what's possible in human nature, generally speaking. She now works in the psychiatry field.

[Eagle1]

[quote=TuscanDreams;8980878]I've done research on human trafficking for grad school...........................................Q UOTE]

That's a lucky break for us. Will you educate us on this subject that you've studied for grad school? There must be lots you could tell us, helpful not only in this case but also future ones.

Maybe even make it a whole new thread, with numbered paragraphs for each point in the opening post? Page-long paragraphs with no breaks that some people write, probably including myself sometimes, are so hard to read. TIA

[Its just me]

[quote=Eagle1;9073116]

Originally Posted by TuscanDreams

I've done research on human trafficking for grad school...........................................Q UOTE]

That's a lucky break for us. Will you educate us on this subject that you've studied for grad school? There must be lots you could tell us, helpful not only in this case but also future ones.

Maybe even make it a whole new thread, with numbered paragraphs for each point in the opening post? Page-long paragraphs with no breaks that some people write, probably including myself sometimes, are so hard to read. TIA

Bumping to get past a sick soul posting porn.

[Seashell]

adding my bump !!