Minors charged as adults

[TuscanDreams]

What do you think the age should be for a child to be charged as an adult?

For example: A 14 year old carjacks an 80 year old woman, who dies of a heart attack during the crime. That makes it a felony murder case.

Should the 14 year old be charged as a juvenile or an adult?

[Jadedblueeyes]

Originally Posted by TuscanDreams

What do you think the age should be for a child to be charged as an adult?

For example: A 14 year old carjacks an 80 year old woman, who dies of a heart attack during the crime. That makes it a felony murder case.

Should the 14 year old be charged as a juvenile or an adult?

I really don't know the proper answer TD. I think it should be decided on an individual basis, case by case. Some children today are just absolutely scary no matter what their ages are and the heinous crimes they commit are horrendous.

Sarah Johnson was 16 when she shot and murdered her parents over a boyfriend her parents didn't approve of and she was tried as an adult. I agreed with that decision to try her as an adult. I agreed with the sentence given to her.

I also agreed that Scott Dyleski who at 16 years of age cruelly and coldly murdered Pamela Vitale an innocent victim he didn't even know. Imo he was evil to the core and I felt he should be tried as adult.

I suppose if the case showed carelessness, immaturity of a 14 year old and with no real planning such as the lady dying in the hijacking then maybe the juvenile system would be the proper court.

I know it is very hard to mete out what is suppose to feel like fair justice for the victims murdered when the criminal only serves such an insignificant amount of time for it. That has to be hard for the victim's family to reconcile.

imoo

[dallasvic]

Originally Posted by TuscanDreams

What do you think the age should be for a child to be charged as an adult?

For example: A 14 year old carjacks an 80 year old woman, who dies of a heart attack during the crime. That makes it a felony murder case.

Should the 14 year old be charged as a juvenile or an adult?

IMO I believe kids today are really scary.Some more than others. It should be based on their passed history and their mental state at the time of the offense. So this is really a had question.
When a child is a juvenile and they commit a crime alot of times they are not arrested but released to their parents an no report is made. They say it to much paper work, so when that is done there is no record and it would make it hard to determine. Most police keep their jobs for long periods of time and they see the kids grow up and if the kids keep getting in trouble the officers make their own judgment to when it is time to stop giving them a break and arrest them. I do not believe this is fair that police should not be able to be the judge. So in ever case they should turn these kids in to a juvenile officer.That is the only way it would be fair to judge a child as a adult.
Back history should play a big part in this. The crime itself and mental state also.

[TuscanDreams]

It does seem that we need to take charging children as adults on a case by case basis. I absolutely agree that Dyleski and Sarah Johnson should have been tried as adults.

This case I mentioned is actually a true circumstance that is being debated in the legal circuit. I don't know anything about this 14 year old, but if he has had no prior negative LE contacts and he has a stable home plan to return to, I'd say he should go to juvenile court and then continue with services until he's 21. However, if this kid is a gang banger with numerous LE run-ins, he needs to be charged as an adult. He'll actually get assistance in prison- contrary to popular belief (I used to think that they did nothing but sat on a bunk all day) and upon his release from the institution, he can be followed up on by Parole Officers until he is stable.

Hi Ocean, Hugs to you!

[dallasvic]

A few days ago I read three stories of child killers.
1.)17 & 19 killed a man for mooning them. 17 yrs old was charged with life without parole. He is beginning sent to a prison for young offenders, this is NEW to me I have never heard of such a place its in Indiana County. The 19 yr old was charged with 3rd degree and will be sentenced May 29
2.)A child was practicing wrestling moves on another child and killed him.
3.) !7 yrs old boy has been accused of killing a 21- month- old baby girl. He sexually assaulted her and tried to assault her before she died.She died from head injuries.They moved his case to adult court. This one I would say yes to charging him as adult.That was just a baby. My God what would he do when he got older and don't even what to think...........
My Heart Goes Out To The Child's Family

[Jadedblueeyes]

Originally Posted by dallasvic

A few days ago I read three stories of child killers.
1.)17 & 19 killed a man for mooning them. 17 yrs old was charged with life without parole. He is beginning sent to a prison for young offenders, this is NEW to me I have never heard of such a place its in Indiana County. The 19 yr old was charged with 3rd degree and will be sentenced May 29
2.)A child was practicing wrestling moves on another child and killed him.
3.) !7 yrs old boy has been accused of killing a 21- month- old baby girl. He sexually assaulted her and tried to assault her before she died.She died from head injuries.They moved his case to adult court. This one I would say yes to charging him as adult.That was just a baby. My God what would he do when he got older and don't even what to think...........
My Heart Goes Out To The Child's Family

I think we are going to see more and more of these type of penal institutions built. These killers really dont belong in the juvenile system which was enacted to house kids with less violent crimes and the bleeding hearts hate the thought of them going to the Adult prison so this will be a stepping off place imo where the violent are incarcerated until they can moved to an adult facility. Sad but since their adult like crimes are escalating something has to be done differently to contain them. Giving them a slap on the wrist is a spit in the face to the victim and to the victim's family imo.

Frankly I think it is a determent to the children in the juvenile system as well by having to be housed with the extremely violent ones. I am sure they go in there thinking they have power over the other kids by ranking their crime as some kind of honor badge.

Happy Mothers Day Everyone!

imoo

[dallasvic]

I do know that they have these boot camps that are very extreme, but I have heard that they have had a lot of success with the minors that inter them and so far so good when they get out. I am sure not all turn out great be it seems to be working to a extent.

From what I understand they do have a choose to prison for a longer term or the boot camp thing with a shorter stay ,but extreme lessons and behavior techniques.I have even seen interviews with some of the ones that made it through the boot camp and they have respect for authority more than they did before they went in.

Also these prisons for young sounds great by I have not heard anything about results once they are released. Has anyone here heard the results on them? I really would like to know .
Later

Originally Posted by TuscanDreams

What do you think the age should be for a child to be charged as an adult?

For example: A 14 year old carjacks an 80 year old woman, who dies of a heart attack during the crime. That makes it a felony murder case.

Should the 14 year old be charged as a juvenile or an adult?

Judging him on this incident alone, I would say he should be charged as a juvenile, as the death of the elderly woman was consequential.

I reserve charging children as adults for particularly cruel, intentional and heinous crimes, such as the minors, as young as 10 years of age, severely and continually beating defenseless, pitiful homeless people, one of whom is a 58 y/o veteran, who served this country. Children like this, who lack compassion, and are incredibly cruel, may become the next generation of serial killers if not severely punished.

IMO

[mrs gates]

I am a correctional officer in the state of Idaho at the minimum custody facility for men but have worked at the medium and maximum level as well in the last 6 years and because I live in Idaho, I watched the Sarah Johnson case unfold from the very beginning-before even Courttv got involved. She was a spoiled brat who was catered to her entire juvenile life and lived in a community full of wealth. For goodness sakes, movie stars have houses in this town. Because her parents finally decided to make a parental choice and told her not to see her boyfriend, who by the way, was an illegal alien from Mexico, she threw a fit. Should she have been tried as an adult? You bet!

With other juveniles, the decision is not so easy. However, things can be taken into consideration such as other juvenile crimes or have they seriously contributed to their school (and I don't mean popularity) or have held a job. Another avenue to explore would be a blended sentence where the punishment can be started as a juvenile and they can be transferred to an adult facility for a determined amount of time. Unfortunately, it is my belief that this type of sentencing is not used nearly enough. Sometimes it takes a wakeup call like "prison" for someone to realize they have made a mistake.

This puts into perspective an episode of Law and Order SVU that actually aired last night about teenagers out of control. In the final scene, Detective Stabler said "there is no statute of limitations on being a bad parent." If all parents were to remember this, maybe there would be less violence in the world....

[luciferos]

Originally Posted by TuscanDreams

What do you think the age should be for a child to be charged as an adult?

For example: A 14 year old carjacks an 80 year old woman, who dies of a heart attack during the crime. That makes it a felony murder case.

Should the 14 year old be charged as a juvenile or an adult?

The 14 year old should be charged as an adult. It is my opinion that any violent crime or one that involves anyone dying is enough that they should be held accountable for their actions. Slapping them on the wrist won't really help to prevent them from hurting others in the future or wiping their record clean, and it's unfair for the citizens to have their identity hidden. But alas, heavy jailtimes also don't really help because they just get out in a worse state than they went in to begin with.

It's a tough balancing act.

[beachgirl40]

Each child defendent should be judged on the facts of his/her case. I'm not so sure about having an age set in stone.

If the 14 yr old had a gun, pointed in at the victim and caused the heart attack; was a gang member; had prior run-ins with the law I would say try him as an adult. On the other hand, if he didn't have a record, had a stable family life, didn't actually use the gun, I would say charge as a juvenile but throw the book at him. Children need to learn respect for the law.

All IMO, as always.

[Charon]

So well said !

I agree. You do the crime, you do the time. In my country you are considered to be "partialy accountable???"-I think is the correct translation- at the age of 7 and "fully accountable" at the age of 14, according to the law.

This does not mean that at 14 you will be tried as an addult but the case could be postponed to your 18'th year for a review, or you may be sentenced to a juvinile detention center otherwise.Eitherway, IMO, children are not so childlike as they used to be.

I think that parents should be charged. My dad used to say that you do not get naughty kids, you only get disobedient parents. If, as where I live, parents could be charged by courts for unpaid child maintenance defaulted by their offspring, I think that they should also be charged for their children's criminality.

I know that MY OPINION will unleash a fertilizer storm of note, but come on, face it: We are a product of our up bringing, are we not? Check out the profiles of 99% of the serial killers, and you'll find some negative reference to their parents. I'm a parent and if my kid put a dent in the neighbor's car, I 've gotta fork out to repair the damage. Now, if my kid jumps the fence, grab his wive, cut off her head and molests the corpse..... What happens? Kid gets send away for a check-up from the neck-up, never to be seen again, and I've gotta move because people keep on putting bricks through my windows.

Take a long hard look at the parents.

[mrs gates]

Great post! I also believe that if parents were held to a higher standard of accountability for their childrens actions, then they would not be so "shocked" that their children could have committed such acts. We have grown into a faster paced society and because in most households it takes two incomes to keep heads above water, we miss alot of what our children are doing. My children sometimes think they live in a prison because I want to know at all times who and where they are at. Because of this, I know, for the most part, if my children get into trouble. And because of what I see on a daily basis at the institutions, my punishment is far worser in most cases than they can get from the outside.
Some parents just don't care what path their children follow. That is why I have 3 generation families at the prison right now. The younger ones see it as acceptable when they come to visit their parents or grandparents and follow in their footsteps. It is a shame...

[JD1974]

Originally Posted by luciferos

The 14 year old should be charged as an adult. It is my opinion that any violent crime or one that involves anyone dying is enough that they should be held accountable for their actions. Slapping them on the wrist won't really help to prevent them from hurting others in the future or wiping their record clean, and it's unfair for the citizens to have their identity hidden. But alas, heavy jailtimes also don't really help because they just get out in a worse state than they went in to begin with.

It's a tough balancing act.

I must be one of the so called bleeding hearts because I think it is truly sad when a child YES a child is charged as an adult. You realize that this child who is facing possibly life in prison cannot even make a decision to take a plea bargain, the parents have to make it because they are a minor. Now if the child is to be treated as an adult they should be fully treated as an adult and be able to make their own legal decisions, right? Most say no because they aren't grown up enough to make a life altering decision like a plea bargain, hell these kids aren't even responsible enough for the government to give them a drivers license or to let them vote, but they will take their life away because they were responsible enough when it comes to making a bad decision???

I say we take the youngest child we charge as an adult , say a 12 year old and give them the same freedoms adults have, let them vote and let them have licenses, if they can be responsible for their actions when it comes to a crime why can't they when it is something an adult does everyday.


I say you can't have it both ways, either you treat these children as adults in all aspects or you treat them like the children they are! IMO

[DigitalDreamKat]

Replying to above, because there is a HUGE difference between taking a life and voting, driving, drinking, etc.

Heck, my 6 year old knows what dead is and she knows that weapons can kill people. She knows that killing someone is wrong. She gets upset about people having their pets put to sleep, because we have told her that taking another life is not the right thing to do. If my 6 year old understands this, I'm pretty sure that MOST young teens would too. That doesn't mean they have the capacity to understand everything else.

If I spoke to my teenage niece and nephew, they would also know that murder is wrong. If I asked them about voting and elections and all that other stuff, they give me this 'huh?' look.

It's comparing apples to oranges. JMO.

ETA: In response to the OP, based just on the information provided, he should be charged as a juvenile.

[dallasvic]

Hi,

Its been awhile since I posted on here. So many good points on here. I also agree that parents be held accountable. The way most children are raised plays a huge part in how they grow up and mature as adults. Values have to be instilled in them. A great number of kids only grow up with one parent and that should play another part in itself. You teach your child great values, but when there is only one parent they can not grasp is that well do in part that the one parent can't be around all the time so they do not get full treatment. Their values are split in half.

[JD1974]

Originally Posted by DigitalDreamKat

Replying to above, because there is a HUGE difference between taking a life and voting, driving, drinking, etc.

Heck, my 6 year old knows what dead is and she knows that weapons can kill people. She knows that killing someone is wrong. She gets upset about people having their pets put to sleep, because we have told her that taking another life is not the right thing to do. If my 6 year old understands this, I'm pretty sure that MOST young teens would too. That doesn't mean they have the capacity to understand everything else.

If I spoke to my teenage niece and nephew, they would also know that murder is wrong. If I asked them about voting and elections and all that other stuff, they give me this 'huh?' look.

It's comparing apples to oranges. JMO.


ETA: In response to the OP, based just on the information provided, he should be charged as a juvenile.

It is absolutely not apples and oranges. If you are going to say a child should be tried as an adult but not be able to make their own choices during their trial that is a double standard, adult enough to do something wrong but not adult enough to decide if they can plea or not. Of course children know that killing is wrong, children also have the thought, this will never happen to me.

That is my point, when you try them as an adult you are saying they acted in an adult manner, which would mean they should have the capacity to be an adult in other ways also. Why is it only when a child commits a crime can he be considered an adult? My 3 year old knows that guns are bad and that killing people is bad, does he actually understand the consequences of pulling a trigger, no, but he knows he is wrong if he kills someone. Are we going to get to a point where we are charging 4,5,6 year olds as adults because they know killing is wrong? I think it is very unfair to try them as an adult and during the trial they can't make any decisions about what happens to them, that falls to the parent. Why is that, if they are adult enough to stand trial as one, why can't they make the decisions that will affect the rest of their lives?

Oh and BTW 80% of the US population would look at you the same way when you asked them about voting, and I am talking about the 80% that ARE old enough to vote.

[JD1974]

Originally Posted by dallasvic

Hi,

Its been awhile since I posted on here. So many good points on here. I also agree that parents be held accountable. The way most children are raised plays a huge part in how they grow up and mature as adults. Values have to be instilled in them. A great number of kids only grow up with one parent and that should play another part in itself. You teach your child great values, but when there is only one parent they can not grasp is that well do in part that the one parent can't be around all the time so they do not get full treatment. Their values are split in half.

What about a single parent that has a Harvard professor and a serial killer as sons/daughters? I think some people are just born bad, in the genes or in the wiring of their brains. IMO

[sallynuts]

Originally Posted by JD1974

What about a single parent that has a Harvard professor and a serial killer as sons/daughters? I think some people are just born bad, in the genes or in the wiring of their brains. IMO

I agree... sum are just born that way,,, it just takes different times, and circumstances for it to be shown.... I have also read about this ... Dr Robert Hare , is only one... some pple are just born bad.. no matte what...

'Why do the sterilise needles for lethal injections?' JMO

[Jadedblueeyes]

I do believe in trying some minors as adults if their crimes are adult like in nature and some murders that are being committed by young killers would put an adult murderer to shame.

I couldn't really care less about the old standby of But..But..But...they cant vote or buy alcohol or cigarettes. Those things are priviledges..........murder is never a privilege no matter the person's age.

If the crime is especially heinous in nature and shows premeditation and aforethought then most definitely imo those individuals should be tried as an adult and removed from society in order to protect society as a whole.

If the young murderers can do such despicable depraved things at a young age what happens if they are not stopped or are let out to walk our streets again in just 2-4 years if they are shuttled through the juvenile justice system which wasnt designed for these type of criminals? Scary thought.

Many serial killers started murdering/raping at a very young age. Had they been caught and sent to prison for life many lives would have been spared. Even Henry Lucas who killed at a very early age said he was able to kill more and more victims because the system kept turning him loose.

I have no sympathy for the young killers/rapists who plan out their crimes. Some of them in the most macabre ways imaginable. If they are capable of doing that kind of perverse evil then imo society must be protected from this kind of young murderers or rapists.

imoo

[Angie1960]

As a rule I cringe when I hear a child is being tried as an adult - I agree that it should be based on the individual cases. A four year old took my sister's life but clearly it was his mother's neglect that caused her death.

As far as the parent's being charged - that should also be a case by case basis - there are plenty of good parents who have troubled children and try their best to get those children the help they need. These parents should not be blamed.

The ones who blatantly contributed to the child's psychosis should definately be held accountable for that.

I grew up a troubled child myself, and yes my parent's did contribute to that. I know that what I was capable of doing when I was 12, I would never even think of doing as an adult.

I was one of those bullies who tormented other children and got a way with it - I truly believe our schools need to step up and stop allowing bullying to continue in our scools. We know what it leads to.

I didn't have much of a conscience because of my upbringing until I was 14. But by the time I was 16 I woudn't even tell a lie.

[aprilbabee41]

The way I think about it, charging them as an adult is an oxymoron. They're still juveniles no matter what crime they commit. I think it is a safety and security that any child should have - one of those things that the government isn't allowed to touch or interfere with no matter what. In the juvenile system they can get the help, support, and protection that they need. In the adult system, they get thrown right in with the REAL adult criminals. Even a psychopathic, cold-blooded 15-year old killer can get helped...no, maybe they will never change, but as a child it is STILL the responsibility of the law to take proper care of them. Some of these kids just need nurture...something they will never recieve in prison.

By the way, I guess I should introduce myself. My name is Lauren, I'm 17 and this is my first post. I'm not planning on becoming a criminologist (though I probably would enjoy it and I think I would be pretty good at it) but I want to be a high school English teacher. This message board looks so interesting...I used to post on forums like Justice for Juveniles (years ago) but recently I've been doing research on other topics and this board seems to have a much wider selection. Well sorry for getting off topic, I know that is frowned upon but this is my first post, I'm so excited to get started here

[crimestudent99]

im fairly new to this site, but i am a parent of 4 kids and my 8 year old knows what dead is as well that making another person dead is wrong. i think parents today leave way to much parenting to the schools and daycares, where lets face it they are not taught everything they need for life (and its not the job of the schools and daycares to teach them everything). i think parents should face something when their kids are doing the things that these kids today do. as a kid i was way more scared of my parents then the cops so i didnt dare break the law, so not the case today. i do think that the age for juveniles should be lowered as kids grow up much faster, then they did when these laws were made, not to mention that a lot of kids are leaving home younger. oh well just my thoughts, im happy to say that my oldest (8yo) is much more afraid of the consiquences from mom and dad to think of doing what some little ones her age are allready getting up to!

[intrigued]

I wholeheartedly agree with you. I feel that it's important to consider the nature of the crime. Just because a perpetrator is under a certain age doesn't mean that they are any less of a threat to society. I really do not think that there is any way to "rehabilitate" a person capable of committing such a violent crime. "Rehabilitate" means to bring a person back up to a "normal" level of functioning. How do you do this with a person who was never "normal"?

[intrigued]

Originally Posted by aprilbabee41

The way I think about it, charging them as an adult is an oxymoron. They're still juveniles no matter what crime they commit. I think it is a safety and security that any child should have - one of those things that the government isn't allowed to touch or interfere with no matter what. In the juvenile system they can get the help, support, and protection that they need. In the adult system, they get thrown right in with the REAL adult criminals. Even a psychopathic, cold-blooded 15-year old killer can get helped...no, maybe they will never change, but as a child it is STILL the responsibility of the law to take proper care of them. Some of these kids just need nurture...something they will never recieve in prison.

By the way, I guess I should introduce myself. My name is Lauren, I'm 17 and this is my first post. I'm not planning on becoming a criminologist (though I probably would enjoy it and I think I would be pretty good at it) but I want to be a high school English teacher. This message board looks so interesting...I used to post on forums like Justice for Juveniles (years ago) but recently I've been doing research on other topics and this board seems to have a much wider selection. Well sorry for getting off topic, I know that is frowned upon but this is my first post, I'm so excited to get started here

You obviously have a lot left to learn about the criminal mind. A naive attitide like your will do nothing but make you a prime candidate for manipulation. I worked in a correctional facility for 8 years, I have seen it happen over and over!!!!!

[crimestudent99]

oh i soo agree, teens can manipulate with the best of them, i work with youth justice and man can the teen girls crank on the tears when you threatan to kick their cases to court. and rahabilitation well lots of criminals do realize what they did and change their ways, but alot dont! and you need to be aware of this when you go into this field. if you try and save every person that you work with you will go nuts! kids are no different, look how many times a kid will burn their fingers on the stove before they realize its hot. lots of kids do stupid things and learn from it, shoplifting vandelism, etc, however rape, murder thos things are much bigger than stealing lipstick, and obviously parent need to take some responsibiblity unfornutely half the time the parents are worse to work with then the kids themselves. APRILBABEE u are going to be in big trouble if you go into this line of work hoping to save the world becuase unfornutaley that isnt allways the case, and teens will run you ragged, ask any parent of one! intrigued, i agree you need to look at the nature of the case, but it will take years for the poiticians to pull their heads out, before they even consider lowering the age for jouvies.

[malissac37]

My opinoin is it should depened on the age of the child. But I feel children shouldn't kill at any age. The parents should be held responsible as well. Parents should know their childs every move. As a parent of 3 boys I know who their friends are and were they are going. I make it a point of know all their business.

[Angie1960]

Originally Posted by malissac37

My opinoin is it should depened on the age of the child. But I feel children shouldn't kill at any age. The parents should be held responsible as well. Parents should know their childs every move. As a parent of 3 boys I know who their friends are and were they are going. I make it a point of know all their business.

Yes - I also believe children should not kill at any age.