A Silent Murder?

[DAFFODIL]

Hi,I am new here and have just have about finished reading all the posts and 1 thing struck me about this crime and that is apart from the dog barking and someone saying hey hey hey it was really a very quiet murder.There doesnt seem to have been any screaming or yelling which seems strange to me because even if Nicole was unconscious when Ron got there Ron himself seems to have put up quite a struggle and yet there were no reports of anyone yelling for help.The reports state what a particularly still night it was so if there had been cries for help surely someone would have heard.JMO

[socaldiva]

Welcome to the board My next door neighbor was stabbed to death about 15 yrs ago & we never heard a peep. It was at night & very quiet, so I know it's possible.

[limakey]

Daff,

Where Nicole lived, it was a busy with traffic. I agree with you that it is strange that neither victim called out, however, from what I remember, the barking of the dog really seemed to piss people off at first rather then raise alarm.

[martin II]

The other possibilitry is that Nicole was attacked from behind by one killer.Ron from behind by another with a hand over his face afdter the hey hey.
otherwise i do belive nicole would have yelled help very loud.

martin II

[martin II]

it may be that both were silenced by two different killers.
otherwise i do think that nicole would have yelled very very loud whoch would have caused the dog to come from his place upstairs in the childrens room
martin II

[William Anthony]

Originally Posted by DAFFODIL

Hi,I am new here and have just have about finished reading all the posts and 1 thing struck me about this crime and that is apart from the dog barking and someone saying hey hey hey it was really a very quiet murder.There doesnt seem to have been any screaming or yelling which seems strange to me because even if Nicole was unconscious when Ron got there Ron himself seems to have put up quite a struggle and yet there were no reports of anyone yelling for help.The reports state what a particularly still night it was so if there had been cries for help surely someone would have heard.JMO

I would like to say hello and wish you a pleasurable experience on this forum. I know if someone was repeatedly stabbing me in my chest to the point that the blood saturated my shirt, as opposed to severing my aorta causing me to do most of the bleed internally, I would be yelling. I know that a knife blade hurts five times more on its way out than on its way in. Someone would have yelled.

[bobaugust]

Originally Posted by William Anthony

I would like to say hello and wish you a pleasurable experience on this forum. I know if someone was repeatedly stabbing me in my chest to the point that the blood saturated my shirt, as opposed to severing my aorta causing me to do most of the bleed internally, I would be yelling. I know that a knife blade hurts five times more on its way out than on its way in. Someone would have yelled.

Right and if someone bigger and stronger than you was behind you with his arm wrapped around your head, turned and wedged against his body holding you against him as he stabbed and cut you, even if you attempted to yell I doubt if you would be heard above loud dog barking.

bobaugust

[martin II]

Originally Posted by bobaugust

Right and if someone bigger and stronger than you was behind you with his arm wrapped around your head, turned and wedged against his body holding you against him as he stabbed and cut you, even if you attempted to yell I doubt if you would be heard above loud dog barking.

bobaugust

and if someone was holding you with a arm around your neck and then cut your jugular, blood would have shot out maby 7-8 feet and that may have accounted for the blood on the walkway between the gate and the sidewalk
where it appeares ron was initially attakced before his body was tossed where it was found.imo
martin II

[William Anthony]

Originally Posted by bobaugust

Right and if someone bigger and stronger than you was behind you with his arm wrapped around your head, turned and wedged against his body holding you against him as he stabbed and cut you, even if you attempted to yell I doubt if you would be heard above loud dog barking.

bobaugust

Unless he was Superman and his skin made of steel, I would bite him and yell. My mouth is on my face, not my head. I have not had the pleasure of seeing you yet.

[DAFFODIL]

Hi,thanks for the welcome.I know I would be making as much noise as I was able to if someone was intent on doing me harm.I have just finished reading Faye Resnicks book today.

[sassylassy]

Originally Posted by DAFFODIL

Hi,thanks for the welcome.I know I would be making as much noise as I was able to if someone was intent on doing me harm.I have just finished reading Faye Resnicks book today.

Hi DAFFODIL

and welcome aboard!

so do tell what did you think of Faye's book?

Ciao

[socaldiva]

Originally Posted by DAFFODIL

Hi,thanks for the welcome.I know I would be making as much noise as I was able to if someone was intent on doing me harm.I have just finished reading Faye Resnicks book today.

I think that anyone that was able to would, but obviously that's not aways the case.

[DAFFODIL]

I found the Faye Resnick book an entertaining read but much I took with a pinch of salt-hindsight is a wonderful thing!! To be able to recount whole conversations verbatim well she must have total recall or have recorded every conversation she had with OJ and Nicole in its entirety each time she had one!!!

[n.n]

I could also imagine that a great shock could keep someone from screaming, or that your one and only reaction is to fight back ... Still, it is strange that nobody actually heard anything else than the barking of the dog.

[bobaugust]

Originally Posted by martin II

and if someone was holding you with a arm around your neck and then cut your jugular, blood would have shot out maby 7-8 feet and that may have accounted for the blood on the walkway between the gate and the sidewalk
where it appeares ron was initially attakced before his body was tossed where it was found.imo
martin II

martin II, no that wouldn't have happened if someone's aorta was cut before their jugular was cut. Once the aorta was cut it would bleed internally quickly lowering the blood pressure so that if the jugular was cut sometime after that blood would not spurt out.

If you can't accept that explanation by Dr. Spitz then post some other experts opinion that would contradict that fact. Wagner was not a medical expert.

bobaugust

[bobaugust]

Originally Posted by William Anthony

Unless he was Superman and his skin made of steel, I would bite him and yell. My mouth is on my face, not my head. I have not had the pleasure of seeing you yet.

Even you wouldn't have the strength left to cause any harm to your attacker after your aorta was cut.

bobaugust

[martin II]

Originally Posted by bobaugust

Even you wouldn't have the strength left to cause any harm to your attacker after your aorta was cut.

bobaugust

BOB
Initially if ron was grabbed from behind with a arm around his neck there was opportunity to BITE long before the Aorta was cut.
imo
martin II

[martin II]

Originally Posted by n.n

I could also imagine that a great shock could keep someone from screaming, or that your one and only reaction is to fight back ... Still, it is strange that nobody actually heard anything else than the barking of the dog.

n.n.
i agree

I have read that when faced with this type of danger the body shifts into emergency defensive mode and a adrenalin rush takes place that gives one more than normal strength and additional ability to fight back. So i would have expected that one of them would have yelled.

Maby they did and it was not used in the trial.

martin II

[bobaugust]

Originally Posted by martin II

BOB
Initially if ron was grabbed from behind with a arm around his neck there was opportunity to BITE long before the Aorta was cut.
imo
martin II

martin II, no one knows blow by blow what happened. But the fact is that Spitz testified that based on where the majority of Ron's blood was internally the killing wound to Goldman's left flank that cut his aorta was inflicted early in the struggle.

bobaugust

[2L8 4A D8]

Absolutely amazing! What part of "maybe Nicole didn't see or hear anything coming which would have alerted her to danger in order for her to scream" doesn't anyone understand?" Ron was the only one that was able to get anything out by saying "hey hey hey" and only because OJ wasn't expecting him. If OJ was expecting him, Ron wouldn't even have been able to get that out, let alone any screams!

Both Nicole and Ron could have been screaming their lungs out which could be heard for miles around and all of you would find something wrong with that! Gee, like why didn't Nicole and Ron scream loud enough or long enough in order for someone, anyone to hear them! Duh! Something, anything!

Unfortunately it didn't happen and even if it did, I don't think that anything they could have done would have saved their lives! OJ was on a mission that night and he accomplished it!

JMO and MOO!!

[socaldiva]

Originally Posted by 2L8 4A D8

*snip*Absolutely amazing! What part of "maybe Nicole didn't see or hear anything coming which would have alerted her to danger in order for her to scream" doesn't anyone understand?"

I fail to see how the lack of screams points to someone other than OJ. The fact is, there weren't any screams. It means nothing relative to who carried out the murders.

[limakey]

2Late,

The screams or lack of screams are very, very important. We have no idea if any one did say they heard a scream. We have no idea if someone, who did hear scream would want to testify. It happens--people see or hear things and just don't want to get involved.

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally Posted by socaldiva

I fail to see how the lack of screams points to someone other than OJ. The fact is, there weren't any screams. It means nothing relative to who carried out the murders.

Correct Diva and I agree! This Thread is nothing but a total waste of bandwidth, but the NG's just love this kinda cr@p and eat it up. Let them have at it, I say!



JMO and MOO!!

[William Anthony]

Originally Posted by bobaugust

Even you wouldn't have the strength left to cause any harm to your attacker after your aorta was cut.

bobaugust

If the aorta was cut first and he mostly bled internally, then there would not have been enough blood to saturate the shirt. How can rectify the hey, hey, hey, and the sounds of an argument with no screams. As I have stated, I think the evidence supports the fact that Ron was the intended victim and that he had some relationship with the killer(s), which would expalin his hesitancy in calling for help.

[William Anthony]

Originally Posted by 2L8 4A D8

Correct Diva and I agree! This Thread is nothing but a total waste of bandwidth, but the NG's just love this kinda cr@p and eat it up. Let them have at it, I say!



JMO and MOO!!

Freshwater has stated that there is no problem with bandwith. There are those who are interested in discussing all aspects of the case, not just the aspects that some believe prove guilt.

[DAFFODIL]

2L8 4A D8 This is my first thread on this forum and you are labelling it a waste of bandwith!!!!!! Its enough to put me off posting again so thanks for that.Oh and BTW I happen to believe OJ was the murderer.

[martin II]

Originally Posted by DAFFODIL

2L8 4A D8 This is my first thread on this forum and you are labelling it a waste of bandwith!!!!!! Its enough to put me off posting again so thanks for that.Oh and BTW I happen to believe OJ was the murderer.

daffodil

You are welcome to post, ask questions and use as much bandwidth as you please. No need to be chased off by 2l. she does not matter as makes no rules for the board.
martin II

[DAFFODIL]

Originally Posted by martin II

daffodil

You are welcome to post, ask questions and use as much bandwidth as you please. No need to be chased off by 2l. she does not matter as makes no rules for the board.
martin II

Thanks for that.Its not really a matter of being chased off its just a bit off putting when you have just arrived!!!!!!!!!!!

[weezer]

Originally Posted by DAFFODIL

Thanks for that.Its not really a matter of being chased off its just a bit off putting when you have just arrived!!!!!!!!!!!

welcome to the board.

I actually don't find it so odd that the only thing heard was Ron's, "Hey, hey, hey." I don't know about anyone else but I think it would be terribly difficult to be screaming while in a fight for your life. I find it difficult to just talk when jogging.

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally Posted by DAFFODIL

2L8 4A D8 This is my first thread on this forum and you are labelling it a waste of bandwith!!!!!! Its enough to put me off posting again so thanks for that.Oh and BTW I happen to believe OJ was the murderer.

Since you only have 5 posts and this is your first Thread, let me be the first to tell you that I have a right to my opinion as does anyone on this Board and these Threads. And my post was JMO and MOO if you had even bothered to notice!

First off, you have to ask me if I care if you ever post again or if I believe anything that you have to say. Let me see! Hmmm. Nope, don't care!

JMO and MOO!!

[DAFFODIL]

Originally Posted by 2L8 4A D8

Since you only have 5 posts and this is your first Thread, let me be the first to tell you that I have a right to my opinion as does anyone on this Board and these Threads. And my post was JMO and MOO if you had even bothered to notice!

First off, you have to ask me if I care if you ever post again or if I believe anything that you have to say. Let me see! Hmmm. Nope, don't care!

JMO and MOO!!

I dont have to ask you anything actually because fortunately for me I really am not interested in your "opinion".I do think however you are an extremely unpleasant person and one best avoided JMO IMO MOO

[bobaugust]

Originally Posted by William Anthony

If the aorta was cut first and he mostly bled internally, then there would not have been enough blood to saturate the shirt. How can rectify the hey, hey, hey, and the sounds of an argument with no screams. As I have stated, I think the evidence supports the fact that Ron was the intended victim and that he had some relationship with the killer(s), which would expalin his hesitancy in calling for help.

Tell us William what expert ever said that if Ron's aorta was cut first and then his jugular was cut there would not be enough blood to saturate his shirt?

You say you think that Ron was the intended victim and his killer waited until Ron got to Nicole's condo when he was with another witness and near other potential eye or ear witnesses before he killed him, right? And then of course he killed the witness, right?

That makes no sense but it sounds about right for you since almost every thing you imagine about this case makes no sense except maybe to you.

Good one, William.

bobaugust

[William Anthony]

Originally Posted by fbgweezer

welcome to the board.

I actually don't find it so odd that the only thing heard was Ron's, "Hey, hey, hey." I don't know about anyone else but I think it would be terribly difficult to be screaming while in a fight for your life. I find it difficult to just talk when jogging.

How much harder is it to scream help than hey?

[William Anthony]

Originally Posted by bobaugust

Tell us William what expert ever said that if Ron's aorta was cut first and then his jugular was cut there would not be enough blood to saturate his shirt?

You say you think that Ron was the intended victim and his killer waited until Ron got to Nicole's condo when he was with another witness and near other potential eye or ear witnesses before he killed him, right? And then of course he killed the witness, right?

That makes no sense but it sounds about right for you since almost every thing you imagine about this case makes no sense except maybe to you.

Good one, William.

bobaugust

we are allowed to speculate and you posted that Ron bled mostly internally due to his aorta being cut and provided the expert. Ergo, the stabbings that allowed his shirt to become saturated, imho, happened before his aorta was cut. You may disagee, as I am sure you will. However, the fact that you disagree on a matter that you posted leads me to believe that there is credibility in my speculation.

Please, clarify your second posts as I consider it too muddy to understand.

I do not know how to respond to your last paragraph, only to say that it is not surprising that you claim you cannot understand my posts.

[bobaugust]

[quote=William Anthony;8815303]we are allowed to speculate and you posted that Ron bled mostly internally due to his aorta being cut and provided the expert. Ergo, the stabbings that allowed his shirt to become saturated, imho, happened before his aorta was cut. You may disagee, as I am sure you will. However, the fact that you disagree on a matter that you posted leads me to believe that there is credibility in my speculation.

The fact is that I rely on Dr. Spitz's expert opinion not speculation from someone like you who has no expertise about what you are speculating about.

Maybe this will clarify my second paragraph for you.

Journey Into Darkness, John Douglas

"The homicide took place at Nicole Brown Simpson's residence," I continued, "That alone is strong evidence to suggest that she was the primary target. We also know that Goldman was there because Brown's mother had left her glasses earlier in the day at the restaurant where Goldman worked. Nicole had called the restaurant, they'd found the glasses, and Ron had volunteered to drop them by. So his being at Bundy at that particular time was happenstance.

Unless the killer actually followed him, he could not be considered the primary target. And if he was being followed, it makes no sense at all that the killer would wait until he was with another person and near potential eye or ear witnesses.
*

But there is a lot of bleeding and she bled out on this first step which was probably where the fatal assault took place. Her throat is cut so deeply she's practically decapitated. The other stab wounds are much more concentrated and directed than they are with Goldman. The killer didn't have trouble controlling her as he did with Ron. He stabbed her repeatedly, not because he 'had' to but because he 'wanted' to. And this is another reason I say the woman was the primary victim, not the man: the attacker knew her and knew her well."

bobaugust

[socaldiva]

Originally Posted by William Anthony

How much harder is it to scream help than hey?

Who said it was harder? Easy for you to say what word you would have chosen. You have the benefit of hindsight & knowing what was to transpire. Ron did not & he was caught off guard.

[martin II]

Originally Posted by William Anthony

we are allowed to speculate and you posted that Ron bled mostly internally due to his aorta being cut and provided the expert. Ergo, the stabbings that allowed his shirt to become saturated, imho, happened before his aorta was cut. You may disagee, as I am sure you will. However, the fact that you disagree on a matter that you posted leads me to believe that there is credibility in my speculation.

Please, clarify your second posts as I consider it too muddy to understand.

I do not know how to respond to your last paragraph, only to say that it is not surprising that you claim you cannot understand my posts.

william
from wagner and sons

But, there were also four deep stab wounds: one to the thigh, one to the abdomen, and two to the right side of his chest. The fact that some blood was found in the abdominal and pleural cavities shows that those wounds occurred before Goldman had died, and his heart stopped pumping blood, but the fact that only 100 cc of blood was found by Dr. Golden in the abdominal cavity and 150 cc in the pleural cavity shows that he did not live long after these wounds were suffered. (We are indebted to Prien to point this out.) Both chest wounds cut branches of the pulmonary artery, and the abdominal wound cut the abdominal aorta. The volume flow rate from these wounds would have been great, and the fact that there was relatively little blood in these cavities indicates the stab wounds were administered very shortly (seconds) before Goldman died.

Goldman suffered two kinds of wounds, "slicing" (with the sharp knife edge) and "stabbing" (with the knife point). Of the former, there were some three dozen, and these were "defensive wounds" to Goldman's hands and arms, and the rest were concentrated on the left side of the victim's head and neck. This area was considerably damaged ("left ear cut nearly off") and he bled greatly from these (the left jugular vein was transected). All of the forensic experts agreed that if Goldman did not die from the blood loss on the left side of his neck and head, he would have soon.
wagner and sons
martin II

[limakey]

First off, there is no way to prove who said "hey, hey, hey". It was Ron Goldman's younger brother who started that with his belief that Ron would have rushed to Nicole's aid if he saw her being stabbed to death.

From what I remember, there were no injuries to either Ron and Nicole's gum lines or lips, in other words, they weren't gagged.

Ron had control or torture wounds on his face. To say that these wounds were inflicted to make sure Ron was dead is beyond lame. Who ever killed them, time did not seem to matter. Ron died with his eyes open, the killer would not have to make the slicing marks on his face. And why more then one?

There is also Nicole's blood on Ron's shoes, which some feel that Ron was made to watch Nicole being killed.

[bobaugust]

Originally Posted by limakey

First off, there is no way to prove who said "hey, hey, hey". It was Ron Goldman's younger brother who started that with his belief that Ron would have rushed to Nicole's aid if he saw her being stabbed to death.

From what I remember, there were no injuries to either Ron and Nicole's gum lines or lips, in other words, they weren't gagged.

Ron had control or torture wounds on his face. To say that these wounds were inflicted to make sure Ron was dead is beyond lame. Who ever killed them, time did not seem to matter. Ron died with his eyes open, the killer would not have to make the slicing marks on his face. And why more then one?

There is also Nicole's blood on Ron's shoes, which some feel that Ron was made to watch Nicole being killed.

limakey, Ron Goldman's younger brother?

The fact is that Heidstra described the voices he heard coming from Nicole's condo. He said the first was a clear young male voice, the second was an older deeper male voice. About five minutes later Heidstra saw a white jeep like vehicle speed away from Bundy. A couple of minutes later Simpson's speeding white Bronco ran a red light at Bundy and San Vicente nearly causing an accident. Jill Shively made eye contact with the driver and identified Simpson.

The fact that all of the evidence at Bundy points to only three people, Nicole, Ron, and Simpson, it's not very hard to understand Heidstra heard Ron Goldman arrive at Bundy and then saw Simpson's Bronco after Simpson committed the murders..

bobaugust

[limakey]

Mr. August,

Yes, it was Ron's younger brother who, when told about the "hey, hey, hey", that it sounded like something Ron would say as he was going to Nicole's aide.

Also, there is no way to prove who's voices those were. It is a myth to believe that only Ron Goldman could have and would have said, "hey, hey, hey".

Jill Schively was not used because..........? Do you honestly believe that Marcia was so stuck on her timeline she would throw her only eyewitness to the wolves?

Also, in the Hankster's book, he disses each and every one of the witnesses you claim prove it was Simpson. You can't have it both ways.

And, another reality check, Hesistra turned away the barking, he said the dogs were going crazy, which means he could not hear or know if there were more voices to be heard. Just because he only heard two, doesn't mean they were the only two.