truTV: Not Reality. Actuality.

SnarkyCow · #1 01-02-2007, 02:42 PM

Forgive me for posting a new thread regarding something brought up on another, current thread. I am doing so for the (slightly selfish) purpose of breaking theories and ideas into smaller pieces. This allows me, and I hope others like me who are newer to the JBR case, to examine smaller pieces of information and accept or dismiss them as we form our own theories.

Facts or Fiction regarding "The American Girl" dolls in the JBR case:

1. We know for a fact that JBR had at least one AG doll, correct?

2. Do we know for certain if one of the things Pam Paugh removed from the Ramsey home was an AG doll?

3. Is there proof that JR ordered an AG doll after JRB's death to be delivered to Access Graphics?

4. Is it common for people to use duct-tape to keep the strings holding the AG dolls head on out of the way?

5. If Aunt Pam did remove an AG doll from the Ramsey home did the police get the AG doll back?

6. Did LE ever try to match the fibers from the tape to the fibers of an AG doll body?

7. Why would JR order an AG doll unless it was to replace the one taken by Aunt Pam from the Ramsey home?

8. If JBR had more than one AG doll, were they all removed by Pam Paugh?

Thanks for your insight. The "American Girl Doll Fiber on the Tape" theory is very interesting to me, but I'm not sure what is proven or hearsay. I find it suspicious that Pam Paugh was allowed to remove anything from the crime scene that was the Ramsey home. I'd think LE would have wanted to focus on what she took out of that house as their suspicions of the Ramseys grew.

Cheers,

Snarky

KingCoyote · #2 01-02-2007, 02:47 PM

SnarkyCow:

I like your thread, post and ideas. I am interested in seeing the answers to your questions. The "American Girl Dolls" has bounced in and out of my Database for sometime now.

KingCoyote

LindaA · #3 01-02-2007, 03:53 PM

Yes, very good questions! I don't know the answers, but I don't believe we know what we in the boxes Pam Paugh removed from the Ramsey house. My understanding is that she was supervised by a LE officer and the items were catalogued. I don't believe the catalogue was ever made public, though.

Zoey · #4 01-02-2007, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnarkyCow

Forgive me for posting a new thread regarding something brought up on another, current thread. I am doing so for the (slightly selfish) purpose of breaking theories and ideas into smaller pieces. This allows me, and I hope others like me who are newer to the JBR case, to examine smaller pieces of information and accept or dismiss them as we form our own theories.

Facts or Fiction regarding "The American Girl" dolls in the JBR case:

1. We know for a fact that JBR had at least one AG doll, correct?

2. Do we know for certain if one of the things Pam Paugh removed from the Ramsey home was an AG doll?

3. Is there proof that JR ordered an AG doll after JRB's death to be delivered to Access Graphics?

4. Is it common for people to use duct-tape to keep the strings holding the AG dolls head on out of the way?

5. If Aunt Pam did remove an AG doll from the Ramsey home did the police get the AG doll back?

6. Did LE ever try to match the fibers from the tape to the fibers of an AG doll body?

7. Why would JR order an AG doll unless it was to replace the one taken by Aunt Pam from the Ramsey home?

8. If JBR had more than one AG doll, were they all removed by Pam Paugh?

Thanks for your insight. The "American Girl Doll Fiber on the Tape" theory is very interesting to me, but I'm not sure what is proven or hearsay. I find it suspicious that Pam Paugh was allowed to remove anything from the crime scene that was the Ramsey home. I'd think LE would have wanted to focus on what she took out of that house as their suspicions of the Ramseys grew.

Cheers,

Snarky

I don't know if this is even a reliable source, but there is some information on here about the American Girl Dolls. From this posting, JB had several of them.

http://www.geocities.com/pinker44/

KingCoyote · #5 01-02-2007, 03:54 PM

SnarkyCow:

I have been checking my notes to find something about this American Doll issue. I do remember reading various internet poster's discussions that parallel your questions. Other than the "White Santa Doll" discussions which I think started a considerable "search" for information, I do not remember any discussions of dolls in the LE interviews but I will have to go back and do a specific search for that and will get to that later.

I have looked at the Return of the Search Warrants (Colorado) that were published through www.acandyrose.com and could not find any doll listed in the returns. There was one portion of the 12/26/96 search warrant return on P.9 that was deleted but many feel that is the black duct tape that was found on the blanket in the wine cellar. I do not know what that deletion refers to and in fact I have also read other internet forum discussions that there is a doll in the blanket somewhere.

There were two Search Warrants listed in acandyrose, on 12/26 and 12/27 which appear to search and sieze (sp?) non computer related items. Both were before 12/28 which is the date my analysis shows Pam Paugh retrieving items from the Ramsey house.

I can also refer you to www.lousmit.com/intrudertheory.htm which gives you a further link to the Rocky Mountain News Article about Lou Smit's evidence. Lou Smit's website does have pictures of JBR's bedroom and beds and it does appear that there might be the head of a doll on her bed in PHOTO N on the left hand side about in the middle. If I remember correctly an internet poster elsewhere blew this picture up and was relatively comfortable that it was in fact a doll. PHOTO 5 of the bed next to the bed JBR slept in has the White Santa doll (which I think turned out to be a pageant gift) and a turquoise item next to the Santa Doll which is indistiguishable to me.

Good luck on your thread and your original post as I am looking forward to finding out if this American Doll issue is for real or not.

KingCoyote

LindaA · #6 01-02-2007, 04:03 PM

Wasn't it a white Santa bear that was a pageant gift, not a doll?

Zoey · #7 01-02-2007, 04:04 PM

I also found this:

http://www.crimeandjustice.us/forums...showtopic=1672

I had specific training that if a customer called in and complained about the cord attaching the head to tell them to duct tape it down. It could also be tucked in the clothing or sewn, but never cut, and for safety reasons, never pinned. The duct tape was presented as proof of an intruder but the dolls have a verifiable connection to duct tape and the Ramseys were allowed to remove them from the crime scene.

SnarkyCow · #8 01-02-2007, 04:17 PM

Thanks for all your input. I'm very curious to learn what I can about the "American Doll" and will be looking into the sources and links you sited later today.

Sincerely,

SnarkyCow

nuisanceposter · #9 01-06-2007, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snarky Cow

1. We know for a fact that JBR had at least one AG doll, correct?

2. Do we know for certain if one of the things Pam Paugh removed from the Ramsey home was an AG doll?

3. Is there proof that JR ordered an AG doll after JRB's death to be delivered to Access Graphics?

4. Is it common for people to use duct-tape to keep the strings holding the AG dolls head on out of the way?

5. If Aunt Pam did remove an AG doll from the Ramsey home did the police get the AG doll back?

6. Did LE ever try to match the fibers from the tape to the fibers of an AG doll body?

7. Why would JR order an AG doll unless it was to replace the one taken by Aunt Pam from the Ramsey home?

8. If JBR had more than one AG doll, were they all removed by Pam Paugh?

Been doing some looking into this, Snarks...much info comes from an Internet poster called Jahazafat and/or Pinker (site here -) http://www.geocities.com/pinker44/

Here is another thread on another board discussing the dolls - http://www.topix.net/forum/news/jonb...448UBBHBIB3/p2

And at FFJ - http://www.forumsforjustice.org/foru...%3DGirl%3Ddoll

And Miss Marple's wiki - http://jonbenetramsey.pbwiki.com/The%20Body

http://jonbenetramsey.pbwiki.com/Ram...0It%20Theories

http://jonbenetramsey.pbwiki.com/Fiber%20Evidence

1. Yes, she had several, two of which were Samantha and Molly.

2. Yes, Schiller mentions it in PMPT.

3. Yes, according to the FFJ thread I posted a link for above, Jahazafat saw the order herself.

4. Yes, the manufacturer even suggests it and trains employees to say so (see link to FFJ thread, post #1) It's even bolded for easy reference.

5. No, not to my knowledge, and I can't find a link about it.

6. Same as 5.

7. That's what I'd like to know. That seems to be the logical conclusion - it's a replacement. it's not like JonBenet needs a new one...she'd already been buried by then, and not with that doll.

8. I can't find anywhere that says all of them were retrieved, but if more than one was retrieved, why not all? The first link I gave says "They removed JonBenet's American Girl dolls" but does not say ALL of them were removed.

SnarkyCow · #10 01-08-2007, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuisanceposter

Been doing some looking into this, Snarks...much info comes from an Internet poster called Jahazafat and/or Pinker (site here -) http://www.geocities.com/pinker44/

Here is another thread on another board discussing the dolls - http://www.topix.net/forum/news/jonb...448UBBHBIB3/p2

And at FFJ - http://www.forumsforjustice.org/foru...%3DGirl%3Ddoll

And Miss Marple's wiki - http://jonbenetramsey.pbwiki.com/The%20Body

http://jonbenetramsey.pbwiki.com/Ram...0It%20Theories

http://jonbenetramsey.pbwiki.com/Fiber%20Evidence

1. Yes, she had several, two of which were Samantha and Molly.

2. Yes, Schiller mentions it in PMPT.

3. Yes, according to the FFJ thread I posted a link for above, Jahazafat saw the order herself.

4. Yes, the manufacturer even suggests it and trains employees to say so (see link to FFJ thread, post #1) It's even bolded for easy reference.

5. No, not to my knowledge, and I can't find a link about it.

6. Same as 5.

7. That's what I'd like to know. That seems to be the logical conclusion - it's a replacement. it's not like JonBenet needs a new one...she'd already been buried by then, and not with that doll.

8. I can't find anywhere that says all of them were retrieved, but if more than one was retrieved, why not all? The first link I gave says "They removed JonBenet's American Girl dolls" but does not say ALL of them were removed.

Thank you NP - interesting reading!