USES For a Celtic Harp

[Eagle1]

Happy 2007 in a couple of days, everyone.

So far, we haven't heard that McReynolds used his celtic harp when visiting children in pediatric wards, for instance terminal cancer ones. We haven't heard if he could even play that harp. Probably he could, or he wouldn't have had it, right?

If it's important that Patsy was still in the previous night's clothes, though, then it's gotta be equally important that the friends who were allegedly CALLED to come over got there so early, and probably were ALSO (?) in the previous night's clothes. Was that angle ever checked? Was there "any evidence of" the friends arriving that morning? Shouldn't there have been some?

For all we know, all of them may have been there all night. JR's "I'm so sorry" could have meant sorry that he let some kind of weird games go on, maybe combining the games of ancient cults like the Celts'.

How many men do you know who would keep a piece of furniture or anything with notches on it for dead little friends?

The group scattered, leaving the cornered R's to fend for themselves as best they could, which was in a way "mud-slinging", even before they could have heard that the R's had been asked by police who they'd suspect.

If they were true friends, that loyal, they should have understood the Rs' need to divert so much damming attention from themselves, that it was simply "self-defense" using them. They were all willing to put it all onto R's, but the "no evidence of" their arriving or leaving the night before or the morning after, may very well mean they were all there all night. Was it checked that they MAY have all been still wearing last night's clothes?

hey must have been "all in it together". As in "two heads are better than one", many heads removing the no "evidence of an intruder" would be better than one. They simply stayed on the dry concrete if they went outside at all, (no footprints that morning from their arriving?) and/or the light snow in the early morning covered their tracks from the night before.

Let's face it, one or more may even have been from BPD, had access to the crime scene and the police files, to dog-ear the dictionary, photograph it, and put it in the folder. Why else would ST and the other guy gasp and be so surprised, if not because it was so obviously planted? Pg 263 of the hardback ST book. I haven't found it yet in the paperback.

If we talk about "no evidence of an intruder", we're calling attention to and have to also acknowledge the many possible reasons why. I'm sure I haven't touched on them all. I believe I just posted something like this at Websleuths' "Coincidences Abount", where Rashomon and NuisancePoster are from. An oldbie with a new tentative theory, of many. I have no favorite theory except that there were others involved, and call myself unbiased, an FS, fence sitter.

[KingCoyote]

The reference to the Dictionary open to "Incest" is on Page 293 of the Paperback Edition of Steve Thomas' book.

Your theory of them possibly being there all night is interesting Eagle1. I have been working on a TimeLine concept and it sure seems like the Whites and the Fernies got to the Ramsey's house quickly, within maybe as short as 10 minutes after the 911 call and allegedly they were called after the 911 call. I have even speculated as to scenarios where they arrive before the Police. Just how close did all of them live? If I remember correctly Fleet White was living pretty close but I don't know about the Fernies?

Just a few thoughts and opinions.

KingCoyote

[Zoey]

I have always been curious about Fleet White and his note taking. What kinds of notes was he taking, and where are those notes now? Why would you walk around taking notes? Did he use a pad and felt pen from the Ramsey home?!

I wonder as well about the clothes the Fernies were wearing and the White's were wearing and if this was checked out as well. In their rush to get to the Ramsey home, did they throw on the first thing they could find, as in the clothes they wore the night before?

IIRC, The Whites lived approx. 10-12 miles from the Ramsey home. I am not sure about the Fernies, although I don't believe it was too far.

[nuisanceposter]

http://www.acandyrose.com/timeline-transcripts1996.htm


1996-12-26 Patsy Ramsey makes 911 call and the police arrive

1996-12-26 (--) 05:52am the 911 call is made my Patsy Ramsey to the police (DOI pg 12)
1996-12-26 (--) 05:52am 911 Call (Transcript)
1996-12-26 (--) Patsy Ramsey calls John/Barbara Fernie for them to come over (DOI pg 12)
1996-12-26 (--) Patsy Ramsey calls Fleet/Priscilla White for them to come over (DOI pg 12)
1996-12-26 (--) Officer French arrived at Ramseys house in marked car (ST pg 16)
1996-12-26 (--) John Ramsey told French he saw no signs of forced entry or struggle (ST pg 18)
1996-12-26 (--) John Ramsey told French house was locked as it was the night before (ST pg 18)
1996-12-26 (--) John Ramsey told French the alarm system had not been set (ST pg 18)
1996-12-26 (--) John Ramsey told French the dog was at the neighbors (ST pg 18)
1996-12-26 (--) 06:00am Cliff Gaston answered the White's phone when Patsy called (PMPT pg 34)
1996-12-26 (--) Fleet and Priscilla White immediately went to the Ramsey house (PMPT pg 34)
1996-12-26 (--) Police were already at the Ramseys when Whites' arrived (PMPT pg 34)
1996-12-26 (--) John Fernie were already at the Ramseys when Whites' arrived (PMPT pg 34)
1996-12-26 (--) John Fernie said the Whites were at the Ramseys when he arrived (Miller trial)
1996-12-26 (--) 06:45am Priscilla White called home, told them JonBenet kidnapped (PMPT pg 34)
1996-12-26 (--) 07:00am Ramseys pastor, Rev. Rol Hoverstock arrived (PMPT pg 35)

[Zoey]

Originally Posted by nuisanceposter

http://www.acandyrose.com/timeline-transcripts1996.htm


1996-12-26 Patsy Ramsey makes 911 call and the police arrive

1996-12-26 (--) 05:52am the 911 call is made my Patsy Ramsey to the police (DOI pg 12)
1996-12-26 (--) 05:52am 911 Call (Transcript)
1996-12-26 (--) Patsy Ramsey calls John/Barbara Fernie for them to come over (DOI pg 12)
1996-12-26 (--) Patsy Ramsey calls Fleet/Priscilla White for them to come over (DOI pg 12)
1996-12-26 (--) Officer French arrived at Ramseys house in marked car (ST pg 16)
1996-12-26 (--) John Ramsey told French he saw no signs of forced entry or struggle (ST pg 18)
1996-12-26 (--) John Ramsey told French house was locked as it was the night before (ST pg 18)
1996-12-26 (--) John Ramsey told French the alarm system had not been set (ST pg 18)
1996-12-26 (--) John Ramsey told French the dog was at the neighbors (ST pg 18)
1996-12-26 (--) 06:00am Cliff Gaston answered the White's phone when Patsy called (PMPT pg 34)
1996-12-26 (--) Fleet and Priscilla White immediately went to the Ramsey house (PMPT pg 34)
1996-12-26 (--) Police were already at the Ramseys when Whites' arrived (PMPT pg 34)
1996-12-26 (--) John Fernie were already at the Ramseys when Whites' arrived (PMPT pg 34)
1996-12-26 (--) John Fernie said the Whites were at the Ramseys when he arrived (Miller trial)
1996-12-26 (--) 06:45am Priscilla White called home, told them JonBenet kidnapped (PMPT pg 34)
1996-12-26 (--) 07:00am Ramseys pastor, Rev. Rol Hoverstock arrived (PMPT pg 35)

Isn't there a contradiction in here? John Fernie was already at the Ramsey's when the White's came, yet the White's were already there when John Fernie came? Isn't something wrong here?

[Coloradokares]

Originally Posted by Eagle1

Happy 2007 in a couple of days, everyone.

So far, we haven't heard that McReynolds used his celtic harp when visiting children in pediatric wards, for instance terminal cancer ones. We haven't heard if he could even play that harp. Probably he could, or he wouldn't have had it, right?

If it's important that Patsy was still in the previous night's clothes, though, then it's gotta be equally important that the friends who were allegedly CALLED to come over got there so early, and probably were ALSO (?) in the previous night's clothes. Was that angle ever checked? Was there "any evidence of" the friends arriving that morning? Shouldn't there have been some?

For all we know, all of them may have been there all night. JR's "I'm so sorry" could have meant sorry that he let some kind of weird games go on, maybe combining the games of ancient cults like the Celts'.

How many men do you know who would keep a piece of furniture or anything with notches on it for dead little friends?

The group scattered, leaving the cornered R's to fend for themselves as best they could, which was in a way "mud-slinging", even before they could have heard that the R's had been asked by police who they'd suspect.

If they were true friends, that loyal, they should have understood the Rs' need to divert so much damming attention from themselves, that it was simply "self-defense" using them. They were all willing to put it all onto R's, but the "no evidence of" their arriving or leaving the night before or the morning after, may very well mean they were all there all night. Was it checked that they MAY have all been still wearing last night's clothes?

hey must have been "all in it together". As in "two heads are better than one", many heads removing the no "evidence of an intruder" would be better than one. They simply stayed on the dry concrete if they went outside at all, (no footprints that morning from their arriving?) and/or the light snow in the early morning covered their tracks from the night before.

Let's face it, one or more may even have been from BPD, had access to the crime scene and the police files, to dog-ear the dictionary, photograph it, and put it in the folder. Why else would ST and the other guy gasp and be so surprised, if not because it was so obviously planted? Pg 263 of the hardback ST book. I haven't found it yet in the paperback.

If we talk about "no evidence of an intruder", we're calling attention to and have to also acknowledge the many possible reasons why. I'm sure I haven't touched on them all. I believe I just posted something like this at Websleuths' "Coincidences Abount", where Rashomon and NuisancePoster are from. An oldbie with a new tentative theory, of many. I have no favorite theory except that there were others involved, and call myself unbiased, an FS, fence sitter.

Whites or rather Fleet White for one was in bed when the phone rang. Fleet White was woken up by his visiting inlaws out of bed. His wife was chatting with her sister all night right on their family room sofa. How normal is that .... perfectly for family who had not seen each other in some time catching up. So maybe that does not speak to the Fernies but they also accounted for having to get out of bed and rush over. Not sure what all that does to your theory. Personally it is my honest humble opinion that no one was in a pedo ring or weird subculture onclave at the Ramsey residence that night up till all hours. You however can believe whatever it is that makes the most sense to you. Till its proven beyond reasonable doubt ....thats ok.

[Zoey]

Originally Posted by Coloradokares

Whites or rather Fleet White for one was in bed when the phone rang. Fleet White was woken up by his visiting inlaws out of bed. His wife was chatting with her sister all night right on their family room sofa. How normal is that .... perfectly for family who had not seen each other in some time catching up. So maybe that does not speak to the Fernies but they also accounted for having to get out of bed and rush over. Not sure what all that does to your theory. Personally it is my honest humble opinion that no one was in a pedo ring or weird subculture onclave at the Ramsey residence that night up till all hours. You however can believe whatever it is that makes the most sense to you. Till its proven beyond reasonable doubt ....thats ok.

How do you know he was in bed? Do you have a link to support this, otherwise you are just going by your feelings, which you do every time someone says anything about Fleet White. Unless you were there at their house, I don't know how you can say he was in bed, or that he was awakened by his visiting in-laws, or that Priscilla spent the night right there on their family room sofa.

[shill]

Originally Posted by Coloradokares

Whites or rather Fleet White for one was in bed when the phone rang. Fleet White was woken up by his visiting inlaws out of bed. His wife was chatting with her sister all night right on their family room sofa. How normal is that ....

John and Patsy were sleeping because they had had a long day and an early departure in the morning. The alarm clock went off and woke them up. How normal is that?

[Coloradokares]

Originally Posted by shill

John and Patsy were sleeping because they had had a long day and an early departure in the morning. The alarm clock went off and woke them up. How normal is that?

Yes that would appear to be very normal. For the sake though of those who believe that John and Patsy have been inconsistent more than once in their accounts and details surrounding the death of their daughter it would appear that not everyone would believe their accounting of rising that morning. That too is their perogative, as it is yours to believe that their accounting was without a doubt the truth.

[Louisadelmar]

Originally Posted by Coloradokares

Yes that would appear to be very normal. For the sake though of those who believe that John and Patsy have been inconsistent more than once in their accounts and details surrounding the death of their daughter it would appear that not everyone would believe their accounting of rising that morning. That too is their perogative, as it is yours to believe that their accounting was without a doubt the truth.

I think they told what they remember as best as they remember it. Time and again over the years I've posted articles about how fragile and changeable the memories are of people going through traumatic events. The RDI seem to want the Ramseys to have never-changing, identical recollections of what happened. If they had, I would see it as a sign of guilt.

[Coloradokares]

[quote=Zoey;8794520]How do you know he was in bed? Do you have a link to support this, otherwise you are just going by your feelings, which you do every time someone says anything about Fleet White. Unless you were there at their house, I don't know how you can say he was in bed, or that he was awakened by his visiting in-laws, or that Priscilla spent the night right there on their family room sofa.[/QUOTE
]

I am not just going by my feelings Nor do I appreciate your saying so. or suggesting that is what it seems to you like I always do. Unless you were there you do not know that Fleet White was not in his bed to be awakened by his visiting inlaws. How do I know? Common knowledge to those who have read the books. It was in either Schillers Book or Thomases. Of course the possibility exists his relatives upon interview lied through their teeth. Or perhaps I have the right to believe they were telling the truth. Nor apparently did the author of the book question the truthfulness when they authored the book. I still have my notes packed away for now. When I get the page number I will furnish. Zoey how would you feel if someone questioned your personal accountibility each time you keyboarded a single word. Hopefully shortly someone who owes the books on this can prove to you what is known as common knowledge and written in a book on the subject. For you to question the information is one thing however perhaps in the interest of fairness you should have stopped at that and not put my personal integrity for scruitiny as well. CK

[shill]

CK,
You might think you've built up credibility here, but IMO you've done just the opposite. If anything, you've painted a picture of yourself as a Gossip Columnist with a Talking Head from the local news as your secret source.

[Louisadelmar]

Originally Posted by Coloradokares

I am not just going by my feelings Nor do I appreciate your saying so. or suggesting that is what it seems to you like I always do. Unless you were there you do not know that Fleet White was not in his bed to be awakened by his visiting inlaws. How do I know? Common knowledge to those who have read the books. It was in either Schillers Book or Thomases. Of course the possibility exists his relatives upon interview lied through their teeth. Or perhaps I have the right to believe they were telling the truth. Nor apparently did the author of the book question the truthfulness when they authored the book. I still have my notes packed away for now. When I get the page number I will furnish. Zoey how would you feel if someone questioned your personal accountibility each time you keyboarded a single word. Hopefully shortly someone who owes the books on this can prove to you what is known as common knowledge and written in a book on the subject. For you to question the information is one thing however perhaps in the interest of fairness you should have stopped at that and not put my personal integrity for scruitiny as well. CK

PMPT, ppbk, p43
Paraphrased: Fleet was in bed by 11. Priscilla and her sister talked until 2AM in the kitchen.

[Zoey]

[quote=Coloradokares;8794591]

Originally Posted by Zoey

How do you know he was in bed? Do you have a link to support this, otherwise you are just going by your feelings, which you do every time someone says anything about Fleet White. Unless you were there at their house, I don't know how you can say he was in bed, or that he was awakened by his visiting in-laws, or that Priscilla spent the night right there on their family room sofa.[/QUOTE
]

I am not just going by my feelings Nor do I appreciate your saying so. or suggesting that is what it seems to you like I always do. Unless you were there you do not know that Fleet White was not in his bed to be awakened by his visiting inlaws. How do I know? Common knowledge to those who have read the books. It was in either Schillers Book or Thomases. Of course the possibility exists his relatives upon interview lied through their teeth. Or perhaps I have the right to believe they were telling the truth. Nor apparently did the author of the book question the truthfulness when they authored the book. I still have my notes packed away for now. When I get the page number I will furnish. Zoey how would you feel if someone questioned your personal accountibility each time you keyboarded a single word. Hopefully shortly someone who owes the books on this can prove to you what is known as common knowledge and written in a book on the subject. For you to question the information is one thing however perhaps in the interest of fairness you should have stopped at that and not put my personal integrity for scruitiny as well. CK

What??? You have two posters on this board who openly told you they were putting you on their ignore list, yet you say something to me about putting your personal integrity out there for scrutiny? You have had Schill climbing all over you for your postings, yet you say something to me? You posted what you did about me because I happen to not believe in the Whites and their story, and you always come unglued when anyone posts anything about the Whites that does not fit your perfect image of them. IMO, they are still high on the suspect list and because it is in a book does not make it fact, IMO.

[Louisadelmar]

Originally Posted by Louisadelmar

PMPT, ppbk, p43
Paraphrased: Fleet was in bed by 11. Priscilla and her sister talked until 2AM in the kitchen.

Although he's not my first choice; it seems to me if we turn the same gimlet eye on Fleet White that was turned on the Ramseys, he has no alibi for 3 hours that night.

[Eagle1]

Originally Posted by Louisadelmar

Although he's not my first choice; it seems to me if we turn the same gimlet eye on Fleet White that was turned on the Ramseys, he has no alibi for 3 hours that night.

Thanks for all the comments.

Amen, we can't take anyone's word for it that the friends were all in bed that morning. Q: WERE THERE A LOT OF FRESH TIRE TRACKS WHEN POLICE ARRIVED, TO PROVE THE FRIENDS HAD ARRIVED THAT MORNING, NOT PREVIOUS EVENING? There had been a light snow, which would have obliterated any footprints. Some bike tracks were probably by a paper boy.(?) There's not much if anything we can flatly state as fact.

I think it's very suspicious they could all :arrive" so early. And remember we can't take their word for it about what they were doing when, as some of the authors of books did when the case was fairly new, before they had a chance to do their own thinking about it very much.

And I should have pointed out that McReynolds isn't said to have visited any childrens' wards in hospitals. We aren't even told that he played his celtic harp anywhere. We could be surmising that he met children that way rather than by playing Santa in parades, but we really don't know. He didn't teach music. I forget what his teaching job's subject was.

Bog man and Landau man and other Celtic customs which could be googled suggest there may have also been sacrificing of children, although I can't at the moment think of any known example. I've read that they thanked a Christmas tree for sacrificing itself, as if it were a person, before cutting it down. Obviously I'm thinking there may have been some ceremony when JonBenet was killed, where the harp was used. Maybe even when the other children died. Anyone remember how manY?

Anyone know any USES for a Celtic (small) harp? A normal harp is too large to carry around, and has pedals for chord-changing. I forget what the smaller one has for that. A late friend of mine had one but never told me anything about it. She was Irish. Don't know if she got it over there.

[Eagle1]

Too late to edit the above post, I'd like to add another question. There have been threads on the forums about their allegedly calling the friends over.

Maybe they really didn't? I'd just like to know if anyone has any ideas about it, and would ST know if there were any fresh tire tracks that morning? It was said there were no footprints, but the concrete was dry.

That would put a different light on the whole story, all the staging, moving the suitcase to under the window, maybe because JR had broken it, if that's even true, and it might make a convincing break-in evidence?

Just wondering.

[Coloradokares]

Originally Posted by Eagle1

Too late to edit the above post, I'd like to add another question. There have been threads on the forums about their allegedly calling the friends over.

Maybe they really didn't? I'd just like to know if anyone has any ideas about it, and would ST know if there were any fresh tire tracks that morning? It was said there were no footprints, but the concrete was dry.

That would put a different light on the whole story, all the staging, moving the suitcase to under the window, maybe because JR had broken it, if that's even true, and it might make a convincing break-in evidence?

Just wondering.

So now you doubt the Ramsey accounting in their book DOI?

[Eagle1]

Originally Posted by Coloradokares

So now you doubt the Ramsey accounting in their book DOI?

Yes, we can doubt everything they've said for all I care, told you I claim to be totally unbiased. We're seeking Truth, rather than one side or the other.

Thanks for the reply. I was wondering what my fellow WS'ers would say.

[KingCoyote]

I was just rereading some posts and am still curious if anyone knows where the Whites and Fernies lived in relation to the Ramseys. From what we seem to know, or at least assume, the Whites and the Fernies were there in about 10-15 minutes. Thats fine unless one of them does in fact live 10-12 miles away. Think about it for a minute. You get a phone call at 6:00 AM in the morning. In order to cover 12 miles in 12 minutes you have to average 60 MPH. Add in a couple of minutes here or there to get your car started, get out of the driveway, slow down a little at intersections that may have stoplights and then gun it, pull up to a parking place or in the back alley, get out of your car and approach the house and you have at least 15-20 minutes.

Zoey - I would love to know what is in Fleet White's notes and why he was even taking notes and where he got the pad and pen/pencil from but there doesn't seem to be a lot of information about Fleet White and his party and his note taking etc.

So to sum up again: Where did the Whites and Fernies live and how far away was each respective house from the Ramseys? Thanking you in advance because I am just too tired right now to do my own research. (The meal was tasty; the nap was needed and the football game was boring.)

KingCoyote

[Zoey]

Originally Posted by KingCoyote

I was just rereading some posts and am still curious if anyone knows where the Whites and Fernies lived in relation to the Ramseys. From what we seem to know, or at least assume, the Whites and the Fernies were there in about 10-15 minutes. Thats fine unless one of them does in fact live 10-12 miles away. Think about it for a minute. You get a phone call at 6:00 AM in the morning. In order to cover 12 miles in 12 minutes you have to average 60 MPH. Add in a couple of minutes here or there to get your car started, get out of the driveway, slow down a little at intersections that may have stoplights and then gun it, pull up to a parking place or in the back alley, get out of your car and approach the house and you have at least 15-20 minutes.

Zoey - I would love to know what is in Fleet White's notes and why he was even taking notes and where he got the pad and pen/pencil from but there doesn't seem to be a lot of information about Fleet White and his party and his note taking etc.

So to sum up again: Where did the Whites and Fernies live and how far away was each respective house from the Ramseys? Thanking you in advance because I am just too tired right now to do my own research. (The meal was tasty; the nap was needed and the football game was boring.)

KingCoyote

I copied this from www.acandyrose.com. This gives somewhat of a timeline of how long it took the night of the White's party to get from the White's home, to two other stops and then home, but I know I have other information that gives mileage. I am hunting for you.


Ramseys left the White's party about 8:30pm "or so" (DOI pg 8)
1996-12-25 (--) Fleet White told police Ramseys left his home around 9:30pm (PMPT pg 33)
1996-12-25 (--) Patsy Ramsey took gift basket to the Stuart/Roxy Walker house (DOI pg 8)
1996-12-25 (--) Patsy and Burke Ramsey took gift basket to the Glen/Susan Stine house (DOI pg 8)
1996-12-25 (--) Ramseys said it was too late to deliver gift basket to John/Barbara Fernie (DOI pg 8)
1996-12-25 (--) Third gift basket for the Fernie family remained in the trunk of the car (DOI pg 8)
1996-12-25 (--) John Ramsey told French they arrived home at 10:00pm from White (PMPT pg 58)

[Tober]

Originally Posted by KingCoyote

Where did the Whites and Fernies live and how far away was each respective house from the Ramseys?

The Whites lived at 743 on the same street as the Ramseys.

[Zoey]

Originally Posted by Tober

The Whites lived at 743 on the same street as the Ramseys.

They had moved the summer before. They had rented out the house at 743 15th Street.

[Louisadelmar]

A poster on Topix lists the following as FW's address. About 4 minutes from the Ramsey house. I don't know the poster so can't vouch for his reliability.
749 15th St
Boulder CO 803 02
Drive: 1.2 mi (about 4 mins)
1. Head south on 15th St toward Baseline Rd - go 0.1 mi
2. Turn right at Baseline Rd - go 0.7 mi
3. Turn right at 6th St - go 0.3 mi
4. Turn left at Aurora Ave - go 0.2 mi
5. Turn right at Cleveland Pl - go 30 ft
To: 403 Cleveland Pl
Boulder CO 803 02

That time/distance fits with whatJohn Ramsey said in his 1998 interview:

8 JOHN RAMSEY: Well we went from the Whites

9 to the Walkers to drop off a gift.

10 LOU SMIT: Were they labeled in this diagram?

11 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah.(INAUDIBLE).

12 LOU SMITINAUDIBLE) would the drive have

13 been from the Whites there?

14 JOHN RAMSEY: Oh, six minutes, five minutes.

15 It's not really far.

16 LOU SMIT: Okay..........


6 LOU SMIT: How far a drive is the Stines?

7 JOHN RAMSEY: Two minutes, three minutes.

7 LOU SMIT: So when you leave the Steins,

8 Patsy returns or whatever and that's just a short

9 distance to your house, I imagine. What? Just a

10 couple of minutes?

[KingCoyote]

Luisadelmar:

I continued with the reading of JR's 1998 Interview with LE and found P. 109 to be on topic. To summarize JR says that they debated going to the Fernies (from the Stines) but that it was probably 15 minutes away (I am assuming from the Stines). Again assuming an average MPH inside of the city of 30 MPH that would put the Fernie's house 7.5 miles away from the Stine house. If we can't find the exact address of the Fernie's house and calculate distance and time maybe we can "tack" some knowledge together and come up with a reasonable answer.

Let me reiterate that my posts in no way imply that any party, in any way, had anything to to with causing the death of JBR. I am just analyzing information.

KingCoyote

[Eagle1]

Originally Posted by KingCoyote

............Think about it for a minute. You get a phone call at 6:00 AM in the morning. In order to cover 12 miles in 12 minutes you have to average 60 MPH. Add in a couple of minutes here or there to get your car started, get out of the driveway, slow down a little at intersections that may have stoplights and then gun it, pull up to a parking place or in the back alley, get out of your car and approach the house and you have at least 15-20 minutes. .....

Zoey - I would love to know what is in Fleet White's notes and why he was even taking notes and where he got the pad and pen/pencil from but there doesn't seem to be a lot of information about Fleet White and his party and his note taking etc. KingCoyote

I'd like to know that too. And don't forget, before even getting into cars, the friends had to get dressed, maybe have a cup of instant coffee, brush teeth, etc. The guys wouldn't have shaved that early, but no hair growth was noticeable? 15 min extra for all that? I've suggested a theory in the thread about the celtic harp that very possibly these friends were still in last night's clothes just like PR, had been there all night. There had been a light snow in the wee hours, so footprints from last night would have been covered. Were there fresh tire prints? We've heard there were no footprints and that the concrete was dry, leading to the house and garage. Also we have not been told if possibly the harp was there, which might mean some sort of cult ceremony. I need to see if there's anything about it at ACandyRose, I know, who first brought up the subject of the harp. McReynolds had received one of the gift ties besides his $25-$30 for playing Santa, I just read at another forum, no idea where they got that.

[LindaA]

I'm thinking that under the circumstances they skipped the coffee. The rest of your question, IMO, is very interesting.

[Zoey]

Originally Posted by Eagle1

I'd like to know that too. And don't forget, before even getting into cars, the friends had to get dressed, maybe have a cup of instant coffee, brush teeth, etc. The guys wouldn't have shaved that early, but no hair growth was noticeable? 15 min extra for all that? I've suggested a theory in the thread about the celtic harp that very possibly these friends were still in last night's clothes just like PR, had been there all night. There had been a light snow in the wee hours, so footprints from last night would have been covered. Were there fresh tire prints? We've heard there were no footprints and that the concrete was dry, leading to the house and garage. Also we have not been told if possibly the harp was there, which might mean some sort of cult ceremony. I need to see if there's anything about it at ACandyRose, I know, who first brought up the subject of the harp. McReynolds had received one of the gift ties besides his $25-$30 for playing Santa, I just read at another forum, no idea where they got that.

IMO, I have always found it strange that when PR called the White's home, it was not Fleet or Priscilla that answered the phone; it was a guest at their home. Was this because Fleet was already on his way to the Ramsey home, knowing full well what had transpired at that home the night before, knowing that the Ramsey's had to get up early and would have found the note by the time he got there??? Of course, this is just my questioning and MOO.

[Coloradokares]

Originally Posted by Zoey

IMO, I have always found it strange that when PR called the White's home, it was not Fleet or Priscilla that answered the phone; it was a guest at their home. Was this because Fleet was already on his way to the Ramsey home, knowing full well what had transpired at that home the night before, knowing that the Ramsey's had to get up early and would have found the note by the time he got there??? Of course, this is just my questioning and MOO.

Fleet was woken up by those self same relatives. He was in Bed. Priscilla was on the sofa still chatting and catching up. He was NOT enroute to the Ramseys. This is the testimony of all who were at the house. I don't think they'd just make this up ......why would they.....

[Zoey]

Originally Posted by Coloradokares

Fleet was woken up by those self same relatives. He was in Bed. Priscilla was on the sofa still chatting and catching up. He was NOT enroute to the Ramseys. This is the testimony of all who were at the house. I don't think they'd just make this up ......why would they.....

Link please to this information. I would like to read this testimony, so please provide the link to this.

If you would read Louisadelmar's post #13, you will see that in PMPT, Priscilla was in the kitchen until 2:00 talking with her sister. Your information is incorrect to begin with. So again, please provide your link for your information.

[thewhitewitch1]

Originally Posted by Zoey

IMO, I have always found it strange that when PR called the White's home, it was not Fleet or Priscilla that answered the phone; it was a guest at their home. Was this because Fleet was already on his way to the Ramsey home, knowing full well what had transpired at that home the night before, knowing that the Ramsey's had to get up early and would have found the note by the time he got there??? Of course, this is just my questioning and MOO.

Come on! What evidence is there that FW was involved? What motive would he have had? Suspecting FW of anything is just grasping at straws because there is nothing to support a theory that he had anything to do with it. The same goes for all of the Ramseys friends who are "suspects". IMO

[Zoey]

Originally Posted by thewhitewitch1

Come on! What evidence is there that FW was involved? What motive would he have had? Suspecting FW of anything is just grasping at straws because there is nothing to support a theory that he had anything to do with it. The same goes for all of the Ramseys friends who are "suspects". IMO

Come on! What motive would the Ramseys have had? Yet you accuse them of this horrific crime, no problem. IMO.

[Tober]

Originally Posted by Zoey

What motive would the Ramseys have had?

Anger was most likely the motive for JonBenet's head injury (based on the severity of it). The motive for the staging and negligence (not calling an ambulance or taking her to the hospital) was most likely to cover-up the past sexual abuse that was determined to have occured.

[LindaA]

Originally Posted by Tober

Anger was most likely the motive for JonBenet's head injury (based on the severity of it). The motive for the staging and negligence (not calling an ambulance or taking her to the hospital) was most likely to cover-up the past sexual abuse that was determined to have occured.

Who determined this and when?

[thewhitewitch1]

Originally Posted by Zoey

Come on! What motive would the Ramseys have had? Yet you accuse them of this horrific crime, no problem. IMO.

What's the difference between acusing the Ramseys of this "horrific" crime and anyone else? Because they were her parents they "couldn't have done it?"
In their case, maybe there was no "motive". An accident occured and they attempted to cover it up. Or, as someone said, perhaps there had been prior sexual abuse of some kind. The "experts" have different opinions on whether or not there had been previous sexual abuse.
Why do I accuse the Ramseys? Well, for one, I have a difficult time believing that anyone either just waltzed into their home while the entire family was present, or laid in wait until they were asleep and had the comfort and ease of doing all that was done right under their noses, so to speak. Then there are the lies and inconsistancies in their stories. There are too many unanswered questions NOT to suspect them. And the damn pineapple. Yes.
Fleet White disturbing the crime scene doesn't automatically make him a suspect. I'm sure I wouldn't think about a crime scene and not touching anything if I were in that position. If you're not a cop (or a crime buff ), you probably wouldn't even think about it.
As far as him "taking notes", who else claimed that he did that besides the Ramseys? It's not like their word is gold; especially when they are trying to implicate anyone and everyone besides themselves. Why would his taking notes indicate that he had anything to do with it anyway? They claimed he almost knew the ransom note "by heart". You would think the Ramseys would have read it and tried to figure out who may have written it. It should have been them who read it so much they knew it by heart. Not so.
Why is that? Just things that make me go...."Hmmmm".

[Louisadelmar]

I thought it was Schiller who said he was taking notes.

[thewhitewitch1]

Originally Posted by Louisadelmar

I thought it was Schiller who said he was taking notes.

Not sure...but Schiller wasn't there so he must have gotten this information from someone. I don't have the books so I can't look it up. If I am not mistaken, though, it was one of the Ramseys who said it.

[Louisadelmar]

Originally Posted by thewhitewitch1

Not sure...but Schiller wasn't there so he must have gotten this information from someone. I don't have the books so I can't look it up. If I am not mistaken, though, it was one of the Ramseys who said it.

I'm not sure either. There is this from the 1998 interview:

21 JOHN RAMSEY: Fleet was taking frantic
22 notes, I remember that. I noticed that it was a
23 yellow note pad, and he was just writing; writing,
24 writing, writing.
25 MIKE KANE: Do you know what he was writing?
0179
1 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't. No. No. I mean it
2 was like every little thing I had to do or should
3 do --
4 MIKE KANE: Did you find that odd?
5 JOHN RAMSEY: I guess at the time I thought
6 he was just trying to do whatever he could to
7 help, was my impression. And at the time, I didn't
8 find it odd.
9 MIKE KANE: Was he talking to you and
10 comforting you?
11 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't remember that he
12 was. Comforting that I remember was coming from
13 Father Rol. That's all I really remember
14 specifically.

[thewhitewitch1]

Originally Posted by Louisadelmar

I'm not sure either. There is this from the 1998 interview:

21 JOHN RAMSEY: Fleet was taking frantic
22 notes, I remember that. I noticed that it was a
23 yellow note pad, and he was just writing; writing,
24 writing, writing.
25 MIKE KANE: Do you know what he was writing?
0179
1 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't. No. No. I mean it
2 was like every little thing I had to do or should
3 do --
4 MIKE KANE: Did you find that odd?
5 JOHN RAMSEY: I guess at the time I thought
6 he was just trying to do whatever he could to
7 help, was my impression. And at the time, I didn't
8 find it odd.
9 MIKE KANE: Was he talking to you and
10 comforting you?
11 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't remember that he
12 was. Comforting that I remember was coming from
13 Father Rol. That's all I really remember
14 specifically.

What do you mean you're not sure? JR is the one that said it! You've just proven it.

[Zoey]

Originally Posted by thewhitewitch1

What do you mean you're not sure? JR is the one that said it! You've just proven it.

I think what she means is she is not sure if John was the only one that said it. I thought, and I am still searching, that Linda Arndt also mentions Fleet walking around taking notes. I am coming up blank on my searching though