Did The Ransom Note Grow Legs?

[KingCoyote]

Hello Forum Members:

I have been doing an analysis of the Ransom Note Location and would appreciate your comments.

1. Patsy has stated that the Ransom Note was on the third rung of the spiral staircase. (See PR Interview with Law Enf.1997 which can be accessed through acandyrose website. The interview does not have pagination so you will have to scroll down and scan for the sourcing.)

Patsy does not mention any lighting in the staircase area in DOI P. 10 nor does she mentions stepping over the note but that is a commonly stated. Steve Thomas disputes Patsy's ability to step over the note without falling at P. 213 of his paperback. Patsy does mention lighting from the laundry area in PR Interview 1997. At no point can I find her statement that she turned on any lights at the top or bottom of the spiral staircase.

In any event Steve Thomas mentions at P192/223 that neither PR or JR's prints were on the note. The statements of both Patsy and John as to who touched the note, if anyone, are inconsistent and inconsistent with Steve Thomas' statements. See John Ramsey Interview with Law Enf. 1997 and see John Ramsey Interview with Law. Enf. 1998 Page 141. Some of his comments include (paraphrased) that JR handed him (Officer French) the note. Another statement was that Patsy intercepted me at the second floor landing and showed it to me. A third statement basically said that JR said he grabbed it (the note) in my hand and remember specifically laying it out on the floor.

Having said all of that we proceed to John Fernie and the Ransom Note.

2. According to PMPT-Schiller PP. 7/78 the 911 call was made at 5:52AM and Officer French was on the scene in 7 minutes or 5:59 AM. John Fernie
states that he was the first to arrive at the Ramsey House. PMPT - P.78. Paraphrasing again Fernie parked his car in the back alley, ran to the south side patio door and found it locked. He then looked through the glass into the lighted room and from where he stood he could see the Ransom Note and read the first few lines. (Italics added).

This puzzled me. First it meant that Fernie must have arrived about the same time as Officer French as the note was still on the floor and not yet handed to the officer. This must have been at about 6-6:05AM. I then wondered how close a note with handwriting like the ransom note must be to a glass door to read it so I did a little unscientific analysis. I copied the first few lines of the note onto a white sheet of legal paper, set it on the floor three feet inside my glass kitchen door, stepped outside and could, with a little straining, read the lines. (I do have 20/20 vision corrected with glasses.) I could not read the note when I placed it 4 feet away, nor could I read it at about 3 1/2 feet away from the door.

Then I had to figure out how far the note had traveled, and how it got there, from the sprial staircase. Using the Floor Plan in Appendix A of PMPT, I noted that the south patio door was directly south of the spiral staircase but I had no idea how far. Using another bit of unscientific analysis I decided to determine if there was a possible scale to the floor plan without one being specifically mentioned.

I live in a house that was built in 1927 about the time the Ramsey house was built. That may not be significant but I thought it interesting. I measured a standard door with facing to be about 41 inches wide and measured two of my hallways and found one to be 40" wide and the other to be 42" wide. Then I assumed the patio door was a standard door spanning the width of the hallway, which may be close. (I remember seeing the door in photos but can't find those photos at the moment. I don't remember it being that wide nor does the floor plan indicate much width of the hallway other than the width of the door). I measured the space allocated for the hallway door in the floor plan to be 5mm. I now had a conversion factor of 5mm = 41" or 1mm=8.2 inches. To proof this factor I used it on the Dining Room and found the the dining room to be 13' X19' which seemed reasonable to me since my Dining room is 11' X 15' and the Ramseys were living in a house bigger than mine. I also measured the Ramsey garage using this conversion model and found that two mid size cars (after measuring two midsize cars) could fit fairly easily in the garage.

I then measured the space between the south patio door entrance and the numeral (1) listed in my floor plan as being the location of the Ransom Note.
That distance, using my unscientific methods, was found to be about 18.5 feet. Subtracting 3 feet for the distance of the note from the door I come up with a movement of the Ransom Note of some 15 feet.

I then pondered the information that John layed the note out on the floor for convenience and to use the hall lighting. I wondered how many lights and light switches were in the hallway and as to why he would have to move some 15 feet down the hall for a light switch and some light. I then rationalized that since it was Dec. 26, which it almost is right now, that he wasn't moving to use sunlight through the south patio door. It was 6AM and the sun rises in my neck of the woods (CST) at about 7:15 AM. Taking into the account the rotation of the earth and the time change for MST where I think Boulder is, I can rationalize that the sun probably rises there at 7:15 AM, or thereabouts, at Christmas time.

So, did John have to go all the way to the end of the hallway to find a light switch and lighting? I then went to John Ramsey's 1998 interview with Law. Enf. (P.0134) and found a discussion JR had with Lou Smit about the light switches for the hallway. John is referring to a photo or floor plan Lou has presented and John responds (paraphrasing) that there are three switches for the hallway: one in the kitchen; one "here" (unknown) and one back here. (Italics added). I must now assume that the one "back here " is in the back of the house where the spiral staircase is and that logically the other light switch would be next to an entryway such as the south patio door. That may not be correct but since my analysis is unscientific, I can assume anything that is reasonably logical.

Ok, my next step of analysis would be to determine if JR came down the spiral staircase which would place him at the location of the Ransom note, or down the front stairs which would place him in the foyer area of the first floor. Looking to Death of Innocence, Ramseys, P.11 and to the PR 1997 Interview with Law.Enf., she/Patsy stated in DOI that he came down "the main stairs." In the 1997 Interview she states (paraphrasing) that she thought John check on Burke and ran down the stairs. Well, the stairs closest to Burke's room are the main stairs.

OK, lets assume John does come down the spiral stairs with Patsy. She and he then proceed to the furthest light switch to gain light?

Now lets assume John comes down the main stairs. Once on the first floor he must turn right, go through the kitchen, which may or may not be lit as Patsy may have preceded him back to the hallway/kitchen/spiral stairway area, turn right again to retrieve the note, do a complete 180 degrees (and pick up the note which does not have his fingerprints on it) and return past a closer light switch in the kitchen or an already lit kitchen with Patsy in it, and proceed down a hallway to the south patio door.

I would love to hear your comments.

Thank you for your time.

KingCoyote

[Athena]

There are a couple of references to lighting in this interview. Previous to this excerpt there are also hall sconces that are left on:

TT: So you kind of leave a few lights on in the house, but nothing major.

PR: Right.

TT: And you, do you recall that morning whether those lights were on? Do you remember seeing an illumination out of the corner of your eye or anything or when you see John on the floor…

PR: Well, by the time he…

TT: (Inaudible)

PR: …was on the, you know, when I’m telling you that I was on the phone with 911 and he was on the floor there reading those three pages, the hall light was on and I don’t you know, any one, either of us could have turned it on by then.

TT: Right. And that, that’s bright and obvious and…

PR: Yeah, very bright, yeah.

[Athena]

Re: Fingerprints or lack of:

Re: Fingerprints from interview (first excerpt) and second excerpt from ST book and then I posted why there may have not been fingerprints on the note from either parent:

ST: Is there any reason, Patsy, that your blatted print of your hand will be on that paper when it tests?

PR: I did not write the note and I don’t, what’s blatted?

ST: This portion of your hand.

PR: I don’t know. I mean, I picked it up or touched it, it may be on there, but I did not write the note.

http://www.jonbenetindexguide.com/19...w-Complete.htm

Only one print was identified on the note and the fingerprint belonged to Chet Ubowski a document examiner. There were 7 latent fingerprints on the pad that the note came from: Sgt Whitson, Chet Ubowski and 5 belonging to Patsy Ramsey.

ST book p223

Why fingerprints may not have been detected:

John had just taken a shower and Patsy had applied make-up and more than likely she washed her hands which would have eliminated fresh oil/perspiration on their fingers which means if any fingerprints were left by them they would have been latent.

PMPT p 294: (long so just typing the synopsis to give the jist of it)

In order to lift and identify fingerprints from the paper, technicians would have to immerse the pages into various chemical solutions which would have made the paper swell, possibly causing the ink to run, or even turning the paper entirely black. Should anyone be arrested in this case the note would have been destroyed so that was not done.

The most popular developing technique is DUSTING. The principle upon which dusting works is simple. Most people's fingers carry a coating of perspiration and oil. When fingers come into contact with any relatively smooth surface, the friction releases the oil from between the ridges. It is for this reason, fingerprinting is sometimes called friction ridge pattern analysis. When powder is applied to the surface, it sticks to the oil and brings out the pattern. Dusting is ideal on wood, metal, glass, plastics, Formica, and tile. It is less than ideal on paper, cardboard, and leather.

http://faculty.ncwc.edu/toconnor/315/315lect05.htm

Ninhydrin is a chemical reagent that reacts with amino acids to give a dark purple coloured product known as Ruhemann‘s Purple. First proposed for fingerprint development in 1954, ninhydrin has become the most widely used technique for fingerprint detection on paper surfaces. The treatment generally involves dipping the items in a ninhydrin solution and then leaving the prints to develop over 24 to 48 hours.

http://tinyurl.com/ymnp2r

[KingCoyote]

Athena:

Thanks for the info on lights and fingerprints. I didn't know about the lights but had forgotten about the fingerprint stuff.

Regarding Patsy being on the phone to 911 and John being on his hands and knees reading the note, I also ran across a statement by John in his 1998 Interview with Law Enforcement on P. 138 where he is apparantly pointing to a floor plan and saying something to the effect of 'She's (Patsy) is at this phone in the Kitchen and I stood(Italics added) kind of right here.' Was he standing near her or on his hands and knees?

But in any event, even without fingerprints being on the note....why take it some 15 feet or so down the hall next to an exterior door. Was that the ONLY place the light was bright enough to read it?...Am I missing something here?

To summarize, the Ransom Note seems to be nowhere near the spiral staircase and John doesn't seem to be on his hands and knees.

KingCoyote

[docg]

From Tracey's first documentary:
Patsy - "I said, 'I'm going to call the police and he said OK. And I think he ran to check on Burke.
And I ran downstairs and, you know, dialed 911."

Nothing here about John being right next to her on his hands and knees. IMO their whole story about what happened prior to the call and where each of them were at the time is a fabrication.

[nuisanceposter]

I think it was a complete fabrication, too.

I have a very hard time believing a man would need to run down a hall and get down on his hands and knees to read an important paper. Men don't get down on their knees to read things - they stand there and read it, or they lean over a table or a counter. I could see a man sitting on a chair before I could see a 50 year old businessman dropping to his knees to read something. If the lights are brighter there, fine, but they're brighter from a standing vantage point than from a kneeling one.

I also have a hard time believing John and Patsy would have endangered their daughter's head being cut off like they did not bothering to mention the death threats to police, much less calling friends over, unless they knew she was not in danger of being decapitated. I know they said they hadn't read the note that far, but I do not believe that, either. That RN is the only link they have to where their daughter is and how to get her back - of course they're going to read every single word to figure out what's going on to decide the best course of action. Patsy knew it ended with not only SBTC but also "victory!" and told the operator so. John, if he was on his knees reading the RN, should have gotten to the threats to cut JB's head off by the time Patsy was done with 911 and went on to call the Whites and Fernies - I simply cannot believe either John or Patsy would have called friends over if they really honestly thought a kidnapper who was watching their house held JonBenet hostage and would cut her head off if they didn't follow instructions.

There's no way of even knowing if the RN had ever been on the spiral staircase like they said it was. I find that to be a very strange place to leave a ransom note. As JAR pointed out when told, how would the intruder know that the family would be coming down the spiral stairs?

[shill]

Originally Posted by nuisanceposer

There's no way of even knowing if the RN had ever been on the spiral staircase like they said it was. I find that to be a very strange place to leave a ransom note. As JAR pointed out when told, how would the intruder know that the family would be coming down the spiral stairs?

His response was to show that it would have to be someone familiar with their routine.
0506
1 LOU SMIT: Did she say how
2 she first observed that, what caught her
3 attention?
4 JOHN RAMSEY: Just that it was
5 laying this, she came down the steps, and she
6 said at first she thought it was a note from the
7 cleaning lady, because it kind of looked like
8 her handwriting, just didn't put much account to
9 it. I mean, what is somewhat meaningful is that
10 that's -- 95 percent of the time we came up and
11 down that stairway.
12 LOU SMIT: You used it all
13 the time?
14 JOHN RAMSEY: All the time.

[KingCoyote]

Originally Posted by shill

His response was to show that it would have to be someone familiar with their routine.
0506
1 LOU SMIT: Did she say how
2 she first observed that, what caught her
3 attention?
4 JOHN RAMSEY: Just that it was
5 laying this, she came down the steps, and she
6 said at first she thought it was a note from the
7 cleaning lady, because it kind of looked like
8 her handwriting, just didn't put much account to
9 it. I mean, what is somewhat meaningful is that
10 that's -- 95 percent of the time we came up and
11 down that stairway.
12 LOU SMIT: You used it all
13 the time?
14 JOHN RAMSEY: All the time.

Shill:

I think your perception of JR's response is not only perceptive but possibly profound. Let me explain:

Your perception, at least to me, begged the question:

Who would be "someone who would be familiar with their (Ramseys') routine"?

In the form of a multiple choice question I would phrase the answers:

a. A knowledgeable intruder
b. Patsy Ramsey
c. John Ramsey
d. Burke Ramsey

Assuming all other things equal, and by that I mean I do not want to get into an RDI versus IDI discussion with all its attendant issues, and just considering the issue of familiarity with the Ramsey's routine I would go about choosing my best answer as follows:

Since I have not read anything that would indicate Burke used the spiral staircase on which to leave anything, much less messages or notes, I would eliminate Burke immediately.

Since I just got through reading excerpts of John Ramsey's 1998 Interview
where he stated that he left notes on the kitchen counter, I would eliminate him.

Since I have read information that Linda Hoffman Pugh has stated that Patsy has left purses on the stairs and therefore did use the stairs for some purpose other than ascending and descending, I would keep her included.

Since I have no opinion as to whether an IDI or PDI/JDI is the correct theory I would leave a. as a possible answer and not even begin to dissect the possible intruders.

I am now left with 2 answers which results in bringing all of the RDI versus IDI attendant issues into answering the question. I'm leaving the question blank on this test BUT:

Aren't the 2 remaining answers that which at least a goodly portion of the forums have reduced their discussions to: Patsy versus an Intruder?

KingCoyote

Just a few thoughts and opinions

[shill]

The choice of the spiral stairs is a strange one for a Ramsey to make if it is part of the staging to make themselves look not guilty. It would be one of many things that would make this the worse staged crime by a parent.
But unless it is a fluke, one would have to assume it is someone who is familiar with their routine, or like I said before, those steps were lighted with twinkle lights and the other steps might have been dark.
But regardless, staging or real, the note should have been placed on her bed.

[rashomon]

Originally Posted by nuisanceposter

I think it was a complete fabrication, too.

I have a very hard time believing a man would need to run down a hall and get down on his hands and knees to read an important paper. Men don't get down on their knees to read things - they stand there and read it, or they lean over a table or a counter. I could see a man sitting on a chair before I could see a 50 year old businessman dropping to his knees to read something. If the lights are brighter there, fine, but they're brighter from a standing vantage point than from a kneeling one.

I also have a hard time believing John and Patsy would have endangered their daughter's head being cut off like they did not bothering to mention the death threats to police, much less calling friends over, unless they knew she was not in danger of being decapitated. I know they said they hadn't read the note that far, but I do not believe that, either. That RN is the only link they have to where their daughter is and how to get her back - of course they're going to read every single word to figure out what's going on to decide the best course of action. Patsy knew it ended with not only SBTC but also "victory!" and told the operator so. John, if he was on his knees reading the RN, should have gotten to the threats to cut JB's head off by the time Patsy was done with 911 and went on to call the Whites and Fernies - I simply cannot believe either John or Patsy would have called friends over if they really honestly thought a kidnapper who was watching their house held JonBenet hostage and would cut her head off if they didn't follow instructions.

There's no way of even knowing if the RN had ever been on the spiral staircase like they said it was. I find that to be a very strange place to leave a ransom note. As JAR pointed out when told, how would the intruder know that the family would be coming down the spiral stairs?

Excellent post, NP - astute and conclusive in its reasoning, like all of your posts!

[shill]

Originally Posted by nuisanceposer

I think it was a complete fabrication, too.

I have a very hard time believing a man would need to run down a hall and get down on his hands and knees to read an important paper. Men don't get down on their knees to read things - they stand there and read it, or they lean over a table or a counter. I could see a man sitting on a chair before I could see a 50 year old businessman dropping to his knees to read something. If the lights are brighter there, fine, but they're brighter from a standing vantage point than from a kneeling one.

I also have a hard time believing John and Patsy would have endangered their daughter's head being cut off like they did not bothering to mention the death threats to police, much less calling friends over, unless they knew she was not in danger of being decapitated. I know they said they hadn't read the note that far, but I do not believe that, either. That RN is the only link they have to where their daughter is and how to get her back - of course they're going to read every single word to figure out what's going on to decide the best course of action. Patsy knew it ended with not only SBTC but also "victory!" and told the operator so. John, if he was on his knees reading the RN, should have gotten to the threats to cut JB's head off by the time Patsy was done with 911 and went on to call the Whites and Fernies - I simply cannot believe either John or Patsy would have called friends over if they really honestly thought a kidnapper who was watching their house held JonBenet hostage and would cut her head off if they didn't follow instructions.

There's no way of even knowing if the RN had ever been on the spiral staircase like they said it was. I find that to be a very strange place to leave a ransom note. As JAR pointed out when told, how would the intruder know that the family would be coming down the spiral stairs?

I've never woken up to find a ransom note and my baby daughter missing, but I'm sure it would make me weak kneed. The old, ”You might want to sit down, I have some bad news" thing.
I read instructions on my knees on the floor all the time when I'm assembling things.

You wake up and your daughter's missing and you have a note from somebody. IMO this would create a panicked desperation. Time is of the essence because this kidnapping might have just occurred minutes before you found the note.
One would think you would remain calm and take heed to the warnings, but panic and desperation have a crippling effect on logic.
You might think you wouldn't behave as the Ramseys did, but you have no way of knowing how this would affect you and your reactions to the situation.
I am not surprised by their action and can imagine myself responding the same way.

I can agree that it is a clue that the note on the stairways points to someone who has seen it's frequent use by the Ramsey household. And of course many of the clues point to inside knowledge of the Ramseys. And I understand that this is a driving force in the RDI theory.
But I have a hard time believing the Ramseys staged all this as a cover up, but implicated themselves every where they could with these clues.

[KingCoyote]

Hello Forum Members:

I have been analyzing some sections of the Police interviews with John and Patsy and am beginning to believe another inanimate object has sprouted legs. A plastic garbage bag, no less.

All information is drawn from: John Ramsey 1998 Interview, PP. 505-513; Patsy Ramsey 1998 Interview, PP.310 - 316; and Death of Innocence, P.10.

In DOI Patsy states that she stops on the second floor Laundry Area to "shove some of the laundry into a plastic garbage sack that will go on the airplane with us," before she "hurries" down the stairs. She makes no reference to carrying the sack/bag with her down the spiral stairs when she discovers the Ransom Note.

The Police show her Photo #52 in the 98 Interview and she realizes that it is a photo of the bottomof the spiral staircase. She remarks about the plastic bag and that she thought she left the bag at the top of the stairs. But she then says that she could have carried it down and set it down to read the note. (I find no reference to this bag in the 97 Interview but a reference to only a red jumpsuit that she "fusses" with on the second floor laundry area.)

This means that not only is she hurrying down a spiral staircase that may be dimly lit by sconces, but is now doing so while carrying a laundry bag and possibly skipping over steps, one of which has a Ransom Note on it. That isn't the complete story though.

In John's interview Photo 52 appears with a brief discussion about its location at the bottom of the spiral staircase next to its good friend, and fellow bi-ped, the Ransom Note.

Then Lou Smit brings out Photo # 17.7. This photo may have come from John Ramsey himself when he unwittingly took pictures of the crime scene as it was developing on 12/26. It seems as though John retrieved a camera, either on 12/23 or 12/25 to take some family pictures. It is possible that when he was testing the camera he took one shot of the hallway area next to the spriral stairs. John also says that early in the morning of the 26th after Linda Arndt arrived he was discussing Linda Hoffman Pugh as a possible suspect and he ran off, or used up, the film in a camera to give to a uniformed officer for developing of the pictures. He may have snapped the shutter button several times while in the hallway next to the spiral stairs.

At least one of his possible pictures show the plastic garbage bag either in a different location than the Crime Scene Photo #52 or maybe not even in the shot (Photo 17.7) at all. I am not really sure because John's reaction to the Lou Smit's question about the bag being "moved" in Photo 17.7 is a somewhat emphatic "definitely." (For some reason I saw some sarcasm in that response and wondered if they were using the word "moved" to mean "not in the picture." I may just be imagining things.)

Anyway, if Patsy did carry the plastic bag down, we now have another piece of evidence to consider as to her traversing the stairs and skipping steps. If she did not bring the bag with her, how did it get downstairs and why is it shown in possibly two locations in two photos, or in the alternative, not even shown in Photo 17.7 and shown in Photo 52? Of what possible importance could a plastic garbage bag of laundry be to anyone, much less a father, when you are in the process of investigating a kidnapped child?

Since Linda Arndt arrived at 8:10 AM according to Steve Thomas' book and one could assume that it took a while to set up the phone taps, etc. I can only guess that John used up the film around 8:30-9:30 AM. We also know that John acquired wanderlust somewhere between 10AM - 12 Noon and went ambling through the basement and to the mail slot and who knows where?

There is also some ancillary discussion about the location of the Pad used for the Ransom Note and about a possible missing Daytimer Date book and a red stocking or sweater.

Can someone enlighten me as to past posts in the forum on this issue or just comment as you like.

KingCoyote

[shill]

My impression was the photos of the bag were taken when John removed the film, which required shooting until it reached the end of the roll at which it automatically rewinds. It seemed to me the photos of the bag gone are either a police photo or a photo shot earlier then that day by John, but they didn't know the exact sequence. What does it mean?
You and I may be confused about the events, but that was what they were sorting out. They have a better understanding of the timeline then we do trying to figure out what their questions imply.

[thewhitewitch1]

Originally Posted by shill

The choice of the spiral stairs is a strange one for a Ramsey to make if it is part of the staging to make themselves look not guilty. It would be one of many things that would make this the worse staged crime by a parent.
But unless it is a fluke, one would have to assume it is someone who is familiar with their routine, or like I said before, those steps were lighted with twinkle lights and the other steps might have been dark.
But regardless, staging or real, the note should have been placed on her bed.

Linda Hoffman Pugh would know that Patsy used those stairs frequently (I imagine) and she was the first person Patsy tried to implicate. I believe the Ramseys placed the note on the stairs with the hope of doing just that.
I believe they wanted LE to believe it was someone who knew them well so that the usage of the items from their home could be justified.
I think they started out with the "terrorist" ploy and then switched gears in mid-stream (time was running out).

[shill]

Originally Posted by thewhitewitch1

Linda Hoffman Pugh would know that Patsy used those stairs frequently (I imagine) and she was the first person Patsy tried to implicate. I believe the Ramseys placed the note on the stairs with the hope of doing just that.
I believe they wanted LE to believe it was someone who knew them well so that the usage of the items from their home could be justified.
I think they started out with the "terrorist" ploy and then switched gears in mid-stream (time was running out).

That would make sense for the Ramseys to make it look like someone that it was someone who knows them, if in fact, someone that knows them would make for a good patsy.(Pun intended) I'm sure they could have planted some cord or tape on something of the maids or her workstation if that was their intention.
Why not point to a shadowy figure instead, with an obvious forced entry point.

[KingCoyote]

Shill:

In reference to your comment about a shadowy figure and an obvious forced entry point, I return to my original post.

In reading JR's 1998 Interview with LE, Page 778 refers to the damages to the South Patio Door including a cracked screen and a split door. With the possible movement of the Note from the Stairs to the South Patio Door area we have a Ransom Note (evidence of a kidnapper or "shadowy figure") immediately adjacent to an "obvious (?) forced entry point." But the door seemed to have been locked if Fernie's statement is correct which makes the scenario a little more mysterious or simply wrong.

KingCoyote

[thewhitewitch1]

Originally Posted by shill

That would make sense for the Ramseys to make it look like someone that it was someone who knows them, if in fact, someone that knows them would make for a good patsy.(Pun intended) I'm sure they could have planted some cord or tape on something of the maids or her workstation if that was their intention.
Why not point to a shadowy figure instead, with an obvious forced entry point.

If it wasn't a premeditated murder, how would they "plant the cord or tape" on the "maids"? I don't believe LHP had a workstation. (What is a maids workstation anyway?)
Busting windows or breaking doors open would have made for a lot of noise. Whatever they were doing, I am sure that they tried to keep the noise to a minimum due to neighbors and, most importantly, Burke.
While I do not believe Burke knows absolutely nothing about what went on that night, I am sure that he doesn't know much and I am sure they wanted to keep it that way.
A "shadowy figure" was also implied by the broken window and the suitcase. It's quite possible that after all was said and done, they did everything they could think of to broaden the possibilities of the murderer being anyone but themselves. Each scenerio (terrorist kidnapper or someone known to the family) was constructed poorly and half-baked, which seems to imply a sense of panic and haste. IMO

[shill]

TWW1,
You implied they were trying to point the finger at someone who knew them. If not the maid, then who would be their patsy that would be believable?

[thewhitewitch1]

Originally Posted by shill

TWW1,
You implied they were trying to point the finger at someone who knew them. If not the maid, then who would be their patsy that would be believable?

They seemed to have pointed the proverbial finger at several people including the Whites and Jeff Merrick. LHP was just the first person they tried to implicate. Apparently, if she had been snooping through their things, she could have known about the $118,000 "bonus". Jeff Merrick may have known also, and Fleet White could have heard about it from the Ramseys themselves; though even Patsy claims to have no knowledge of it. I find that a bit hard to believe.

[Athena]

I don't think they "pointed" a finger at anyone other than answer questions posed to them and I am sure it would have been hard for them to think that someone they may have been close to could have killed their child. Hell if my child had been harmed everyone would be suspect and I believe that would be normal especially if certain facts would only be known to people they knew or been associated with.

I do believe though it is possible that Patsy was not necessarily aware of the amount of JRs bonus. In my personal life all I want to know is that whenever I need finances to do something I need to do I just ask is it there? I don't know the relationship Patsy had with money but I choose not to know everything because I am the spender in the family; my husband the saver and admittedly I would want to spend it just because it's there. Every now and then when we review our assets I find myself pleasantly surprised. I do handle the checking account and the savings/stocks, etc my husband deals with -- thank goodness.

[shill]

Robert Phillips would probably know about the bonus and their use of the spiral staircase, they didn't point the finger at him.

[thewhitewitch1]

Originally Posted by shill

Robert Phillips would probably know about the bonus and their use of the spiral staircase, they didn't point the finger at him.

Who is Robert Phillips?

[Zoey]

Originally Posted by thewhitewitch1

Who is Robert Phillips?

Isn't he Judith Phillips husband?

[shill]

Originally Posted by Zoey

Isn't he Judith Phillips husband?

Her ex-husband.

[KingCoyote]

Hi Forum:

I think both Athena and Shill's comments about who the Ramseys did and did not implicate are good.

The Ramseys obviously had to respond to police questions such as "who would know this" or who had been here recently." Such questions would be very normal. But it is also true, as Athena says, that everybody should be a suspect. That would be a normal reaction of the parents.

But as Shill states not everybody was named by the Ramseys. One who comes to mind in Mike Archeleta, the pilot friend of JR. In JR's 1998 interview with LE, JR referred to Mike Archuleta as a friend who had been in the house. Not that I am in anyway insinuating that Mike Archuleta had anything to do with this, I am NOT but he would have known the Ramsey's schedule as well as having been in the house. I believe Archuleta was questioned about some details of the flight plan and the telephone calls but that seemed to have be the extent of the questioning.

I just wonder, with my penchant for making lists in hopes of detecting anything that will shed light on this case, if listing out all the people the Ramseys knew and then breaking that list into two lists, one with the people that the Ramseys tend to implicate and one with the people that the Ramseys did not implicate, would tell us anything

Just a few thoughts and opinions.

KingCoyote

[KingCoyote]

Sorry....I was almost ready to post an update but I am uncomfortable with my analysis (back to the drawing board) but I want to save the thread from dropping into the possible oblivion of Archives and not being able to find it again......I am still too much of a Newbie to know how that works.....

KingCoyote

[LindaA]

KC, I'll be anxious to read your update when it's reaady.

[KingCoyote]

LindaA;

It may be a while...and I mean a while....I tried to push it to get some ideas ready but I didn't want to post something lousy (and it was lousy when I sat it down for a couple of days and came back to it).....I have way too many things building up in my "real life"...lol....right now....I may not be around much and maybe not at all for a couple/three weeks....Sorry.....Life Calls!

KingCoyote

P.S. Don't worry...no medical conditions...no deaths in family...just time consuming matters.

[shill]

Did it grow legs or did Fernie's nose grow longer.

The LE arrived before Fernie and should have been in possession of the ransom note.

So how did Fernie see it on the floor to read?

[Athena]

I know we all have come up with our own thoughts/opinions of what the ransom note meant. But just suppose we take it at face value? IMO it is not a grammatically correct note; it is not written by anyone with a good amount of education as it could have been written by a 6th grader, the ransom note amount of $118K could have had some significance to the killer if we presume that the killer knew JR and maybe perceived himself to have been slighted in some way; why would JR or Patsy implicate themselves with that amount?; and why couldn't it have really just been an intentional pre-meditated kidnapping gone bad?

[DolphinSpirit]

I guess the biggest mystery to me about the ransom note is why implicate yourself like that? I do agree that many of the letters in the rn look similar to Patsy's handwriting. But why do that to yourself. If you were so professed on movie lines and staging a crime scene, why implicate yourself in this way? Surely you knew that handwriting would be compared, ....you staged a crime scene for heaven's sake. For them to stage, why leave such a long note? I know she had journalism in college and the like...but doesn't that just implicate you more? Why point the suspicion on yourself? Write "we have your daughter, give us xx amount at this location, at this time or she dies!!!" Don't go into all that detail. ...If a RDI, ...I will never understand the state of mind he/she/they were in to write this long note after the fact. That is heartless...

[shill]

IMO People write long winded notes to vent their frustrations about someone. In this case the focus was John.