A head injury similar to Jonbenet's

Okay I should be wrapping Christmas presents but instead I've been reading thru medical texts on my shelf as well as scanning the internet to find some reasonable explanation for that goofy ME who says it takes 20-60 minutes for the brain to bleed and swell--he has really gotten under my skin. BTW I looked all over the internet for his original comments (not those published by the reporter) but I couldn't find them. I am hoping to find his original and conclude that he was mis-quoted. If anyone can find them, please post.
In any case, I can't find anything at all to support his comments. I did, however find a case where the injuries were very similar to JB's. I will post the case below, then comment on the next post. Here it is:

Emergency Medicine
Neuropathology Chapter 7
Pediatric Traumatic Brain Injury
Case M-64

This is a 7-year old female involved in a motor
vehicle accident. She sustained a significant 15 cm linear fracture to the skull. There is extensive subarachnoid
hemorrhage with a mild degree of lateral and third
ventricular dilation. Blood/CSF levels are visible in the
occipital horns of the lateral ventricles. The left image
shows a considerable amount of blood in the fourth
ventricle (This may look like the quadrigeminal cistern,
but it is too low. The quadrigeminal cistern is visible in
cuts above the suprasellar cistern, not below the
suprasellar cistern). The center image shows blood in
the five-pointed star of the suprasellar cistern. The right
view shows blood in the posterior interhemispheric
space. The left image shows the subarachnoid hemorrhage which caused the increased intracranial pressure that compressed the brain. The hematoma started out as a flat blood clot between the dura and the arachnoid membrane. Fibroblasts are observed growing from the dura into the clot beginning to organize it. With arterial bleeding, symptoms develop rapidly and mortality rates are 85-95% even with immediate medical attention. This patient was airlifted to a level 1 trauma center within 20 minutes of her injuries and was DOA due to excessive intracranial hemorrhage and acute cerebral edema.

Unfortunately when I copied and pasted the text, it did not include the pictures. I scanned this from a medical text onto my computer, but I don't know how (or if) I can attach the original so everyone can see the images. Can someone help me with this?

The injuries are very similar to JB's except the patient described was involved in a car accident and she had a 15 cm fracture (about 6 inches).

Anyway, if anyone knows how I can attach a word document to this thread, please advise.

[Louisadelmar]

Can't help on the attachments but here is a brief CV of Dr Wright as well as an email address should you become frustrated enough to want to write him.


Ronald K. Wright, MD, JD
Associate Professor of Pathology
Director of Forensic Pathology Division
2142 Holz Center
Jackson Memorial Hospital
Miami, Florida 33101
Tel: (954) 520-4958
Fax: (954) 212-0797
E-mail:rkw@rkwrightmdjd.com

CV
 BS Southwest Missouri State University 1967
 MD St Louis University 1971
 JD University of Miami 1980
 Anatomic and Clinical Pathology, University of Vermont 1971-1974
 Forensic Pathology , Dade County, Florida 1974
 Deputy Chief Medical Examiner, Dade County , Florida 1974-1980
 Chief Medical Examiner, Broward County , Florida 1980-1994
 Assistant and Associate Professor of Pathology, 1974-Present

Academic Interests
Primarily interested in the pathology of sudden death , whether from injury or from natural disease process. Particularly interested in electrical death and injury.

Selected Publication
Welti CV,Wright RK . Deaths from recreational cocaine use. JAMA, 241:219-22, 1979
Wright RK , Davis JH. The investigation of electrical deaths - a report of 220 fatalities. J For Sci, 514-21;1980.
Wright RK . Death or injury caused by electrocution. Clinics in Laboratory Medicine,3:343-53,1983.
Wright RK , Gantner G."Electrical Injuries and Lightning" In Froede RC, ed. Handbook of Forensic Pathology . Northfield IL College of American Pathologists;1990.
Wright RK ."Sudden Unexpected Death" In Froede RC, ed. Handbook of Forensic Pathology . Northfield IL College of American Pathologists;1990.
Wright RK.In Emergency medicine.1998. http://emedicine.com/emerg/topic162.htm

Originally Posted by elvislives

This is a 7-year old female involved in a motor
vehicle accident. She sustained a significant 15 cm linear fracture to the skull. There is extensive subarachnoid
hemorrhage with a mild degree of lateral and third
ventricular dilation. Blood/CSF levels are visible in the
occipital horns of the lateral ventricles. The left image
shows a considerable amount of blood in the fourth
ventricle (This may look like the quadrigeminal cistern,
but it is too low. The quadrigeminal cistern is visible in
cuts above the suprasellar cistern, not below the
suprasellar cistern). The center image shows blood in
the five-pointed star of the suprasellar cistern. The right
view shows blood in the posterior interhemispheric
space. The left image shows the subarachnoid hemorrhage which caused the increased intracranial pressure that compressed the brain. The hematoma started out as a flat blood clot between the dura and the arachnoid membrane. Fibroblasts are observed growing from the dura into the clot beginning to organize it. With arterial bleeding, symptoms develop rapidly and mortality rates are 85-95% even with immediate medical attention. This patient was airlifted to a level 1 trauma center within 20 minutes of her injuries and was DOA due to excessive intracranial hemorrhage and acute cerebral edema.

Sorry I tried all kinds of things but cant figure out how to transfer the images. Anyway, a few comments on the above. This patient had a 15 cm fracture (about 6 inches) and was dead within 20 minutes. Also of note, her wounds had already begun to organize (again within 20 minutes at most). There are lots of these cases in medical journals, but I chose one of a child close in age to JB and with a similar (tho smaller) skull fracture.
There is a lot of detail on this case (I only posted part of it) and it is unclear as to exactly when she died--it only says that she was dead on arrival at the hospital and she got there 20 minutes after the accident. So the question is, if she had been strangled after this accident, how much time would the killer have for her to die of strangulation before she succumbed to the head wound? This is why I believe the strangulation came first--or immediately after the head wound was inflicted. There is no other way to explain why the head wound would not have begun to organize.

[bullmoose]

To Elvislives: Excellant post. I believe the reason so many[ including those on this board,the RDI's] are so insistant that Jonbenet suffered the skull fracture first is that it is the way they can explain the how and why's of her ligature strangulation. RDI theorists believe that Jonbenet was bashed, thought to be dead by her parents, and then garotted as part of an elaborate staging to cover the original bashing. The weird ransom note adds to the theory. If, as your post shows very convincingly, she was garotted first, as I myself believe, then a lot of the RDI theories are invalid. I don't think your evidence will be sufficent to convince the diehards, though.

[thewhitewitch1]

Originally Posted by bullmoose

To Elvislives: Excellant post. I believe the reason so many[ including those on this board,the RDI's] are so insistant that Jonbenet suffered the skull fracture first is that it is the way they can explain the how and why's of her ligature strangulation. RDI theorists believe that Jonbenet was bashed, thought to be dead by her parents, and then garotted as part of an elaborate staging to cover the original bashing. The weird ransom note adds to the theory. If, as your post shows very convincingly, she was garotted first, as I myself believe, then a lot of the RDI theories are invalid. I don't think your evidence will be sufficent to convince the diehards, though.

Not when other experts on the subject (as previously posted elsewhere) say that the head injury could have come first. If it was absolutely undisputed, I'd have to rethink...but since it isn't...well...

[shill]

Maybe the killer slipped and dropped JB on her head as he was carrying her down the spiral stairs and thought she was OK.

[rashomon]

Originally Posted by bullmoose

To Elvislives: Excellant post. I believe the reason so many[ including those on this board,the RDI's] are so insistant that Jonbenet suffered the skull fracture first is that it is the way they can explain the how and why's of her ligature strangulation. RDI theorists believe that Jonbenet was bashed, thought to be dead by her parents, and then garotted as part of an elaborate [staging to cover the original bashing. The weird ransom note adds to the theory. If, as your post shows very convincingly, she was garotted first, as I myself believe, then a lot of the RDI theories are invalid. I don't think your evidence will be sufficent to convince the diehards, though.

What Elvislives posted does not dispute the head injury having come first. For if the child had already been dead from strangulation first, how could she have bled at all?

It is true that Elvislives presented a mere 'theoretical' example: suppose person A strangles person B and then immediately whacks B over the head before B is clinically dead, B might still shed some blood.
But how realistic is such an IDI scenario? Not very much imo.
A blow to the head immediately following a strangulation attempt where the child is not dead yet?
If at all, it would fit more into an RDI theory:

for remember that Dr. Spitz (another renowned expert consulted on the case, Elvislives!), theorized that this is what Patsy Ramsey could have done: strangled JB somewhat first (by maybe twisting her collar around her neck), and then hit her over the head (either using the flashlight or yanking her head against a hard object).
And the garrote scenario was a scene which was staged later.

Elvislives:

what I find puzzling is that the horrible injury to JB's skull did not even break the skin.
So when looking fo comparable autopsy pictures of children of JB's age, you should look for those where the skin wasn't broken either.
How can that be? Does this happen often, that people get a skull fracture without the outer skin being broken? Or is this very unusual?

The first thing I want to point out is that I am neither IDI or RDI--I'm still totally confused by this case. What I am trying to establish is the chronology of events. Just because the strangulation came first, does not mean that an intruder did it imo. As hard as it may be to believe, the parent(s) may very well have strangled their daughter then hit her on the head. Unfortunately it happens. So again, my only point in finding a similar case and dissecting the autopsy report is to figure out the sequence of events.

That said, to answer your questions, Rash, children have "softer" skulls than adults. So while it is uncommon for an adult to have a cracked skull without breaking the skin, it is much more common to see that in children. That is why diagnostic imaging (ct scans, x-ray etc) are so invaluable for patients with head injury. The extent of a kid's injury is often times not apparent based on an external exam. But it would have to be blunt force trauma to not break the skin.

[nuisanceposter]

We don't know that the strangulation came first. There's a detailed discussion going on at FFJ about clotting and organization, and I am still not convinced that the strangulation preceeded the head wound (thanks, Rashomon!) I can't see any other way to explain the definitive LACK of struggle unless JonBenet was unconscious when strangled, and her head wound absolutely could have come before she was strangled.

I do agree with your point that even if the strangulation came first that that does not immediately rule out the question of parental involvement and indicate the work of an intruder.

Actually you are right--I think I misspoke here. The conclusions imo that can be drawn from the autopsy are not necessarily that the strangulation came first, then the head wound, but rather that they occurred within a very short time period. It IS possible that the head wound was first...and the lack of organization and bleeding was due to the fact that she was immediately strangled and her carotids were constricted. It does rule out however MY original theory that Patsy bashed her, decided she was dead or close to it, brought John into the action, plotted the intruder theory, fashioned the garrotte and strangled her for show then staged the rest of the scene. Unless Patsy did all that within about a minute, it couldn't have happened that way. So again it is still possible that she was bashed first, but if so the strangulation would have come right on the heels of the whack.

[nuisanceposter]

How do you explain the lack of any sign of struggle from JonBenet while being strangled to death? How is it possible that she was choked to death by that cord and offered no fight or resistance to the person choking her whatsoever?

Originally Posted by nuisanceposter

How do you explain the lack of any sign of struggle from JonBenet while being strangled to death? How is it possible that she was choked to death by that cord and offered no fight or resistance to the person choking her whatsoever?

I don't know. I've heard all sorts of theories....like she was drugged, it was a surprise attack from behind, she was stun-gunned. I've also heard some evidence that maybe she did struggle and her nails caused the crescent like marks on her neck. But I really have no clue. The autopsy report provides nothing imo to explain that. Its a great question tho.

[thewhitewitch1]

Originally Posted by elvislives

I don't know. I've heard all sorts of theories....like she was drugged, it was a surprise attack from behind, she was stun-gunned. I've also heard some evidence that maybe she did struggle and her nails caused the crescent like marks on her neck. But I really have no clue. The autopsy report provides nothing imo to explain that. Its a great question tho.

What if, as someone suggested, she had been "accidentally" strangled first by someone having a tight hold on her shirt so that the collar choked her, and was then pushed into something (such as a sink or bathtub) which caused the head wound. If she was already suffering from lack of oxygen from the shirt being too tight around her neck, couldn't that have slowed down the bleeding to her brain?
Wasn't it Cyril Wecht who said that some of the injury to her brain was consistant with "shaken baby syndrome"? I can envision an angry parent holding a child by their shirt and shaking them, and then roughly pushing them as they let go of the shirt.

[Athena]

The description of blunt trauma indicates she was hit with something on the head with a rectangular shape. Cyril Wecht also describes the shaking after the strangulation and I do not believe she hit her head on anything. JMO

[shill]

Well apparently they can't tell what caused the skull injury, so why didn't the Ramseys toss her down the spiral stairs on her head and avoid all the rest of the bull?
The spiral stairs are right outside JB's bedroom door.

[LindaA]

Originally Posted by shill

Well apparently they can't tell what caused the skull injury, so why didn't the Ramseys toss her down the spiral stairs on her head and avoid all the rest of the bull?
The spiral stairs are right outside JB's bedroom door.

My question exactly.

[thewhitewitch1]

Originally Posted by shill

Well apparently they can't tell what caused the skull injury, so why didn't the Ramseys toss her down the spiral stairs on her head and avoid all the rest of the bull?
The spiral stairs are right outside JB's bedroom door.

Maybe they didn't think of it. And if she was previously molested, throwing her down the stairs wouldn't account for that....unless they wanted to claim that she fell on the paintbrush on the way down.

[LindaA]

IMO the paint brush handle did its damage at a point far too far inside to account for prior penetration. I don't see how anyone would think it would cover up a stretch vaginal opening and hymen.

[bullmoose]

To shill: The reason John and Patsy didn't throw Jonbenet down the stairs after clubbing her like a baby seal was that their portable X-ray machine was in the basement, so they carried her down to X-ray her first, then set up the elaborate and strange staging.

Originally Posted by thewhitewitch1

What if, as someone suggested, she had been "accidentally" strangled first by someone having a tight hold on her shirt so that the collar choked her, and was then pushed into something (such as a sink or bathtub) which caused the head wound. If she was already suffering from lack of oxygen from the shirt being too tight around her neck, couldn't that have slowed down the bleeding to her brain?
Wasn't it Cyril Wecht who said that some of the injury to her brain was consistant with "shaken baby syndrome"? I can envision an angry parent holding a child by their shirt and shaking them, and then roughly pushing them as they let go of the shirt.

It;s possible....but its a stretch. Keep in mind that she would have lost consciousness after the first few minutes and the killer would have to keep strangling her for a few more minutes until she was dead (remember she had petechial hemorrhaging in her lungs, hence she died of asphixia). Based on the severity of the head wound, I don't think it was caused by being pushed into anything flat like a bathtub. The corner of the sink is a possibility since that could have caused the hole, but they would have to have used extreme force to do so much damage. It looks to me like head injuries you see when a kid is hit with a baseball bat (usually accidently during the course of a game or something) ...a bat is usually swung with velocity and force (to hit a ball) which is how it can crack the skull or cause a hole. And kids that come in with accidental head blows from baseball bats usually have some degree of "shaken baby syndrome". All that is is trauma caused by the brain sloshing around within the skull.

[thewhitewitch1]

Originally Posted by bullmoose

To shill: The reason John and Patsy didn't throw Jonbenet down the stairs after clubbing her like a baby seal was that their portable X-ray machine was in the basement, so they carried her down to X-ray her first, then set up the elaborate and strange staging.

Now, now, Bullmoose. If you must ridicule RDIs then we must retaliate.
The phantom kidnapper/pedophile who entered and exited the Ramseys home via a puff of smoke and silently floated through the house making no noise, leaving no fingerprints and wearing mismatched shoes, walking around with his phantom fly open so that a single pubic hair could fall out seems a much more reasonable theory. There were no footprints in the snow because he floated over it. (Very clever) I'm sure the reason he didn't take her body was because he had no substance and couldn't carry her. I think what he did was he possessed John or Patsy's body and forced them to carry out his evil wishes so that he could frame them. I think the intruder was someone who Patsy and John had wronged at some point who came back from the dead to seek vengence on them. The pineapple was JBs last meal and, of course, she had a cigarette afterwards, as is customary before an execution. (Hence, the cigarette butts in the alley).
Yeah. That's the ticket.

[shill]

How was the head injury covered up, by not covering it up?
Should have left a weapon next to her if it was a cover up.

[shill]

Originally Posted by thewhitewitch1

Now, now, Bullmoose. If you must ridicule RDIs then we must retaliate.
The phantom kidnapper/pedophile who entered and exited the Ramseys home via a puff of smoke and silently floated through the house making no noise, leaving no fingerprints and wearing mismatched shoes, walking around with his phantom fly open so that a single pubic hair could fall out seems a much more reasonable theory. There were no footprints in the snow because he floated over it. (Very clever) I'm sure the reason he didn't take her body was because he had no substance and couldn't carry her. I think what he did was he possessed John or Patsy's body and forced them to carry out his evil wishes so that he could frame them. I think the intruder was someone who Patsy and John had wronged at some point who came back from the dead to seek vengence on them. The pineapple was JBs last meal and, of course, she had a cigarette afterwards, as is customary before an execution. (Hence, the cigarette butts in the alley).
Yeah. That's the ticket.

People slip in and out of small houses with people sleeping all the time, and rob and kidnap while they are there. We know this happens in reality. This house was much much bigger then most.
Parents have never killed and staged a crime like this before. So this would be a one of a kind crime with no basis of believability.
Many of us IDIs don't believe it is the work of a pedophile, that's more of a RDI cover up thing.
Revenge has been a major motive for Murder throughout history.

The RDI theory is about how everything is not as it appears and the Ramseys are lying about everything.
The IDI theory is about how everything is as it appears and the Ramseys are telling the truth.
The RDI theory has to explain how the evidence was staged for it to point to their suspect.
The IDI theory tries to interpret the evidence as it appears so it will lead them to a suspect.

[Coloradokares]

JMHO but to even say clubbing her like a baby seal is just way to much for my sensitivities. This forum is really starting to get just a bit to disrespectful to be taken seriously at all. JMHO

[shill]

Originally Posted by Coloradokares

JMHO but to even say clubbing her like a baby seal is just way to much for my sensitivities. This forum is really starting to get just a bit to disrespectful to be taken seriously at all. JMHO

That's what I've been saying about the RDI theories.

[aussiesheila]

Originally Posted by nuisanceposter

How do you explain the lack of any sign of struggle from JonBenet while being strangled to death? How is it possible that she was choked to death by that cord and offered no fight or resistance to the person choking her whatsoever?

My explanation is that at the time, she was standing with her arms held outstretched straight above her head by the 15 inches of cord between the wrist loops which was attached in some way to one of the overhead pipes running beneath the ceiling of the basement.

[bullmoose]

To TWW: Actually your silly theory is better than some of the serious ones I've read; and it explains more than my silly theory. Will we ever know for sure what really happened? After ten years and no solution, I doubt it. This case in some ways makes me think of Dennis Raeder, the BTK killer. The husband of one victim was suspected of murder all those 20 years, the cops never even connected her murder to the BTK. It wasn't until he re-emerged that the cops found out that it was a BTK murder. This case just doesn't make sense to me any other way. JMHO, seriously[sorry about the baby seal line,CK].

[thewhitewitch1]

Originally Posted by bullmoose

To TWW: Actually your silly theory is better than some of the serious ones I've read; and it explains more than my silly theory. Will we ever know for sure what really happened? After ten years and no solution, I doubt it. This case in some ways makes me think of Dennis Raeder, the BTK killer. The husband of one victim was suspected of murder all those 20 years, the cops never even connected her murder to the BTK. It wasn't until he re-emerged that the cops found out that it was a BTK murder. This case just doesn't make sense to me any other way. JMHO, seriously[sorry about the baby seal line,CK].

It doesn't make sense to me either but I have to say, if you can get past the emotional "reasoning" that a parent couldn't/wouldn't do these things to their own child for any reason, the Ramseys look guilty as hell.
Nobody wants to believe that they "did it" but in all reality, they very well could have. I happen to believe that they did. The problem is, some of the puzzle pieces have to be made to fit instead of just sliding in nicely but it's the same with all IDI theories too.
Frusterating, isn't it?!

[LindaA]

I don't really believe the R's did it, either, but it's not emotional reasoning. They evidence doesen't fit, IMHO. I agree with Elvislives. I think there is less emotional reasoning with the IDIs than most RDIs give us credit for.

[Coloradokares]

Originally Posted by bullmoose

To TWW: Actually your silly theory is better than some of the serious ones I've read; and it explains more than my silly theory. Will we ever know for sure what really happened? After ten years and no solution, I doubt it. This case in some ways makes me think of Dennis Raeder, the BTK killer. The husband of one victim was suspected of murder all those 20 years, the cops never even connected her murder to the BTK. It wasn't until he re-emerged that the cops found out that it was a BTK murder. This case just doesn't make sense to me any other way. JMHO, seriously[sorry about the baby seal line,CK].

Thankyou. I know its hard to imagine. I used to see JonBenet and Burke out playing or her photos in the newspaper etc. I Know a family who knew them personally. This murder is not just another headline to some of us. It is more than a sluething interest or mystery whodoneit. Thanks again.

[LindaA]

CK, I think it is far more than a mystery to those of us who post here. Most people are passionate about the case.

[Coloradokares]

Originally Posted by LindaA

CK, I think it is far more than a mystery to those of us who post here. Most people are passionate about the case.

Perhaps that was unfair. But the baby seal comment and other indelicate references have served to make me wonder, not saying that others don't care, maybe the level of caring is different when its touched the lives of those you know. Its not a passionate case to me, its about a little girl who deserved so much more. All we can do for her now is to seek justice. Justice is proving who did this to her and seeing that the maxium time is served under the law. Anyone who did this to JonBenet has long since ceased to deserve mercy as the guiding component of our concerns. Remorse should have led the most hardened of hearts to confession by now.

[shill]

Originally Posted by Coloradokares

All we can do for her now is to seek justice. Justice is proving who did this to her and seeing that the maxium time is served under the law.

By all means take Patsy to trial, convicter her and give her 15 life sentences.

These forums are about finding JB's killer so justice can be done to them.
These forums shouldn't even allow people to talk about Patsy being the killer, because justice can no longer be served to her. If she was to be proven to be the killer, it would only be the end to a long hunt.

[LindaA]

Originally Posted by shill

By all means take Patsy to trial, convicter her and give her 15 life sentences.

These forums are about finding JB's killer so justice can be done to them.
These forums shouldn't even allow people to talk about Patsy being the killer, because justice can no longer be served to her. If she was to be proven to be the killer, it would only be the end to a long hunt.

Re that last sentence; that would be enough for me -- if PR were guilty.

CK, obviously you think the because you actually saw JBR no one can care as much about her as you. You may be right, but it's pointless to keep bringing it up. Everyone here wants the justice for JBR she deserves. We just differ on the person who should be held accountable.

[rashomon]

Originally Posted by shill

By all means take Patsy to trial, convicter her and give her 15 life sentences.

These forums are about finding JB's killer so justice can be done to them.
These forums shouldn't even allow people to talk about Patsy being the killer, because justice can no longer be served to her. If she was to be proven to be the killer, it would only be the end to a long hunt.

These forums are about discussing the JBR case, and Patsy Ramsey was never cleared as a suspect in her daughter's death. The fact that a perp has died does not automatically remove him/her from the discussion just becasue earthly justice can't be served anymore.

[cami]

Originally Posted by rashomon

So when looking fo comparable autopsy pictures of children of JB's age, you should look for those where the skin wasn't broken either.
How can that be? Does this happen often, that people get a skull fracture without the outer skin being broken? Or is this very unusual?

It could Rash...they likened it to a closed head injury suffered in an accident.

[nuisanceposter]

Originally Posted by rashomon

These forums are about discussing the JBR case, and Patsy Ramsey was never cleared as a suspect in her daughter's death. The fact that a perp has died does not automatically remove him/her from the discussion just becasue earthly justice can't be served anymore.

Very true, and a good point. Patsy Ramsey was still considered a suspect in JonBenet's murder at the time of her death, and her being deceased does not render suspicion of her guilt null and void.

It's like when people said everyone needed to stop suspecting Melinda Duckett of being responsible for her 2 year old son Trenton's disappearance when she committed suicide. There was very good reason people suspected Melinda's involvement, and her being deceased did not change the facts surrounding the case - that she could not be ruled out as the prime suspect due to her own words and actions.

[Coloradokares]

Originally Posted by shill

By all means take Patsy to trial, convicter her and give her 15 life sentences.

These forums are about finding JB's killer so justice can be done to them.
These forums shouldn't even allow people to talk about Patsy being the killer, because justice can no longer be served to her. If she was to be proven to be the killer, it would only be the end to a long hunt.

I have no desire to convict anyone but the killer and anyone who may have been a part of staging as it took place and covering up this crime and denying JonBenet any form of justice or dignity. I can't get past her laying soaked in her own urine on the front of herself, yet she was found face up shill. Who ever did this to her be they dead or alive should bear the responsibility of accountibility at the very least for their acts. What do you mean the forums shouldn't even be allowed to talk about Patsy as a suspect. She is a suspect and her death from cancer as bad as it had to have been to endure does not cancel this out in any rational way if she committed the act. Shill one moment your thoughtful and insightful and purposeful with your thoughts directed and you lend substance to the matter, then you post something so cruel or insulting or as above a statement that would lead one to believe that you'd rather convict anyone than the responsible party if the party is dead. It leaves at least me scratching my head going what?!?!? Its not the hunt or the debate or solving the case its seeking justice and the only way justice is served is in finding the person(s) responsible and convicting them in a court of law. Or at leastputting this cold unsolved murder to rest with a statement that is irrevocable if that is where the truth leads. I don't want just anyone to serve someone elses time for a crime they did not commit. I don't think that in truth that is what you'd want either. Please in the future. Walk away, just walk away from the keyboard till you can say what you need to express in a positive way. Surely you would not want anyone to bear the burden for Patsy if it is proven no one else could have done this would you. These are all huge if's... I realize that. No one has been tried or convicted as yet. But we have to look at all the possibilities. Not just the ones who give us someone we could seek to exact and extract justice from. JMHO

[sweetcharlotte]

Originally Posted by nuisanceposter

Very true, and a good point. Patsy Ramsey was still considered a suspect in JonBenet's murder at the time of her death, and her being deceased does not render suspicion of her guilt null and void.
<snip>

I think it's fairly safe to say that no one has been cleared from this investigation. Patsy, John, Jeff Merrick, Fleet White, Fleet's wife, Santa, Ms. Santa, the housekeeper, and the list goes on and on. JMO