Mercy Killing??

[Ames]

I was just wondering how many of you out there, (of course, it would have to be RDI's, or PDI's)...think that after Patsy delivered that fatal blow to JB's head, while in a rage, that she HAD to have heard JB's skull crack. In the autopsy photos, her skull was cracked open like an egg...that would have HAD to have made a horrible sound. Patsy could have heard the crack and JB started convulsing. Patsy knew that the blow was fatal. I don't think that she meant for it to be, but regardless...it was. Anyway, WHAT IF...the strangulation was part of a mercy killing, because Patsy (and maybe John) didn't want to see her suffer. And then the rest of it was a staged cover-up. Its just something that occurred to me, the other day. A mercy killing would make sense as to why they decided to finish her off. (Sorry to be so blunt).

[shill]

Originally Posted by Ames

I was just wondering how many of you out there, (of course, it would have to be RDI's, or PDI's)...think that after Patsy delivered that fatal blow to JB's head, while in a rage, that she HAD to have heard JB's skull crack. In the autopsy photos, her skull was cracked open like an egg...that would have HAD to have made a horrible sound. Patsy could have heard the crack and JB started convulsing. Patsy knew that the blow was fatal. I don't think that she meant for it to be, but regardless...it was. Anyway, WHAT IF...the stherangulation was part of a mercy killing, because Patsy (and maybe John) didn't want to see her suffer. And then the rest of it was a staged cover-up. Its just something that occurred to me, the other day. A mercy killing would make sense as to why they decided to finish her off. (Sorry to be so blunt).

Well, since you have such a horrible opinion of the Ramseys, I guess this sounds like a caring thing to you for them to do, and therefore possible.
Picking up a phone and pushing 3 buttons would be what loving parents would do. And I believe the Ramseys are loving parents, not monsters.

[LindaA]

Personally I can't see strangling as a mercy killing. I think that if that is what happened initially then I think they would have given her another blow or staged an accidental death scene as I outlined on another thread. Much faster and less ...mmm.. unpleasant for the perps.

[bullmoose]

The garotte strangulation of Jonbenet was not in any way shape or form meant to be merciful, even if one accepts the theory of her skull being fractured first, which I do not. If she had been smothered with a pillow the scenario would be more believable; but she wasn't. Somebody took the time to construct the garotte, with line that has no match in the house and strangled her. If her hyoid bone had been broken it would indicated manual strangulation, but it wasn't broken; in my opinion someone took their time to strangle her just so, and then bashed her skull in to make sure she was dead. Her parents don't fit in anywhere in my theory, other than targeted victims.

[Ames]

Originally Posted by shill

Well, since you have such a horrible opinion of the

<snipped>
Picking up a phone and pushing 3 buttons would be what loving parents would do. And I believe the Ramseys are loving parents, not monsters.

Picking up the phone and pushing 3 buttons, would not be an option, if they were the reason that the call had to be made. What would they tell the 911 operator? "Um, yes...I just cracked my daughter's skull like an egg, in a fit of rage, could you please send an ambulance?" I do not think that would go over very well. So, she tried to disquise it, and hopefully stay out of jail...and it worked. Oh yeah, I also said in the first post of this thread...that this would only work in an RDI situation. I didn't expect YOU to go along with this scenario.

[Ames]

Originally Posted by bullmoose

The garotte strangulation of Jonbenet was not in any way shape or form meant to be merciful, even if one accepts the theory of her skull being fractured first, which I do not. If she had been smothered with a pillow the scenario would be more believable; but she wasn't. Somebody took the time to construct the garotte, with line that has no match in the house and strangled her. If her hyoid bone had been broken it would indicated manual strangulation, but it wasn't broken; in my opinion someone took their time to strangle her just so, and then bashed her skull in to make sure she was dead. Her parents don't fit in anywhere in my theory, other than targeted victims.

I think that she could have possibly been strangled, first by hand..and then the garotte was used to cover up the marks.

[Ames]

Originally Posted by LindaA

Personally I can't see strangling as a mercy killing. I think that if that is what happened initially then I think they would have given her another blow or staged an accidental death scene as I outlined on another thread. Much faster and less ...mmm.. unpleasant for the perps.

I saw your post on staging an accidental death scene. And I posted back to you, on another thread, that Doctor's can usually figure out how a person got an injury. Like for example...someone bringing in a child with a broken arm, and telling the dr. that the child "fell". Or, shaken baby syndrome...the person that shook the baby is going to lie, so they don't go to jail....trying to come up with another scenario as to why the baby's brains are scrambled....but, the Doctors know that they are lying, because whatever scenario they give, it just doesn't jive or mesh with the injury. I am sure that the doctors would be able to look at JB's head injury, and for some reason, it wouldn't jive with her falling down the stairs. Maybe the skull is cracked in the wrong place, or whatever. The doctors can usually tell though. Ask elvislives...she is an ER doctor...she would know alot more about this than I would.

[shill]

Originally Posted by Ames

Picking up the phone and pushing 3 buttons, would not be an option, if they were the reason that the call had to be made. What would they tell the 911 operator? "Um, yes...I just cracked my daughter's skull like an egg, in a fit of rage, could you please send an ambulance?" I do not think that would go over very well. So, she tried to disquise it, and hopefully stay out of jail...and it worked. Oh yeah, I also said in the first post of this thread...that this would only work in an RDI situation. I didn't expect YOU to go along with this scenario.

911 is an option.
All I can assume from your comment is that it is not an option for you and if you accidentally killed your child you would cover it up instead of getting help.
Some of us aren't as cold blooded as you are Ames.

[Louisadelmar]

I don't think Ames is coldblooded. She's really just giving us Thomas' theory. I wonder if anyone has asked him, now that he has a child, if he would consider killing his baby because he'd accidently injured her.

[Ames]

Originally Posted by shill

911 is an option.
All I can assume from your comment is that it is not an option for you and if you accidentally killed your child you would cover it up instead of getting help.
Some of us aren't as cold blooded as you are Ames.

How DARE you say that about me and my children. You have offended me to the point of no return. (And to think that I PM'd you not too long ago about how nice you have been being lately). I am NOT the one that had a dead daughter in my basement, and the killing happened under my, my husband and son's noses. NOR were the fibers of my jacket, found on the duct tape, entwined in the ligature, the paint tray, AND the blanket. NOR was a fake ransom note found in my house....I could go ON AND ON AND ON. IF all the above could be said of ME....THEN...and ONLY THEN would you have the right to call me cold blooded (and you could add the word killer).....because THATS what I would be. I cannot BELIEVE that you said that if I had accidently killed my child, I would cover it up instead of getting help. You are as wrong as hell about that....because, I would WANT to get help. Obviously....with all of that evidence....fibers...etc. Patsy chose not to. (If there were not so many things pointing toward Patsy's direction, I would say...sure, she would have called for help. But to me, the evidence points directly at Patsy lashing out in a rage, and trying to cover it up. BUT, that has nothing to do with me.

[Ames]

Originally Posted by Louisadelmar

I don't think Ames is coldblooded. She's really just giving us Thomas' theory. I wonder if anyone has asked him, now that he has a child, if he would consider killing his baby because he'd accidently injured her.

Thanks for saying that you don't think that I am coldblooded. Geez...I am just looking at the evidence here. I believe that she injured her, with the head blow...and that JB was convulsing. Now I would have called 911, and risked going to jail....but, I think that Patsy didn't want to see JB suffer....AND she feared telling the truth of the rage filled head blow...and didn't want to go to prison. So, she thought that she would stage a cover up and hope for the best.

[Ames]

Bruce Levin: To Lin Wood – “We believe the fibers from her jacket were found in the paint tray, were found tied into the ligature found on JonBenet’s neck, were found on the blanket that she as wrapped in, were found on the duct tape that was found on the mouth.”

To Patsy: “I have no evidence from any scientist that suggests that those fibers are from any source other than your red jacket."


http://www.jameson245.com/48hours2.htm

[Louisadelmar]

Originally Posted by Ames

Thanks for saying that you don't think that I am coldblooded. Geez...I am just looking at the evidence here. I believe that she injured her, with the head blow...and that JB was convulsing. Now I would have called 911, and risked going to jail....but, I think that Patsy didn't want to see JB suffer....AND she feared telling the truth of the rage filled head blow...and didn't want to go to prison. So, she thought that she would stage a cover up and hope for the best.

Two unrelated things:

1. Who among us knows where our fibers are in our house? My assumption is mine are all over my stuff as well as my kids stuff.


2. I think people (and particularly people who have had a fairly comfortable childhood and life) nearly always assume bad things won't happen. Or if they do happen someone will be able to fix it. They or their sick or injured child will get better. Patsy survived cancer when the odds were against her. I just can't see Patsy taking it upon herself to decide JonBenet was going to die from an invisible head bash and then hurrying the process along.

Even if JonBenet had been pouring out blood or laying there with her head twisted off to the side from a broken neck, Patsy would still have believed that somehow the doctors (and prayer) could save her and make it all right. Therefore she wouldn't kill her.

[Ames]

Originally Posted by Louisadelmar

Two unrelated things:

1. Who among us knows where our fibers are in our house? My assumption is mine are all over my stuff as well as my kids stuff.


2. I think people (and particularly people who have had a fairly comfortable childhood and life) nearly always assume bad things won't happen. Or if they do happen someone will be able to fix it. They or their sick or injured child will get better. Patsy survived cancer when the odds were against her. I just can't see Patsy taking it upon herself to decide JonBenet was going to die from an invisible head bash and then hurrying the process along.

Even if JonBenet had been pouring out blood or laying there with her head twisted off to the side from a broken neck, Patsy would still have believed that somehow the doctors (and prayer) could save her and make it all right. Therefore she wouldn't kill her.

If fiber transfer is an issue...then how does fiber evidence hold up in court? I am telling ya...I don't want to believe that Patsy killed her own daughter...but, it happens every single day. I really think that she panicked....or else she probably would have thought that the doctors and prayer could have saved her...just like you said. I really don't think that she was in her right mind. Something else to keep in mind....in one of Patsy's interviews..she said (and I have posted this on another thread...but will find it again for you, if needed)....at one point that she didn't drink alchohol, because she was on chemo. at the time. In the SAME interview when asked about what she did at the White's party...she stated that they had some COCKTAILS. Does anyone out there know the effects of a mix of chemo and alchohol. I will have to look that one up.....that COULD possibly be the reason that she did something that was totally out of character for her. IMO

[Louisadelmar]

Originally Posted by Ames

[...] Something else to keep in mind....in one of Patsy's interviews..she said (and I have posted this on another thread...but will find it again for you, if needed)....at one point that she didn't drink alchohol, because she was on chemo. at the time. In the SAME interview when asked about what she did at the White's party...she stated that they had some COCKTAILS. Does anyone out there know the effects of a mix of chemo and alchohol. I will have to look that one up.....that COULD possibly be the reason that she did something that was totally out of character for her. IMO

First, the perceived conflict on the drinking. In the first section he is asking about current alcohol use. Had she taken any alcohol prior to the interview? She says she doesn't drink since starting the Paxel (Paxil?) after JonBenet's death. In the second section she is talking about being light drinkers and not drinking much because of what the chemo did to her liver. She was no longer having chemo so a mix of chemo and alcohol doesn't really apply.
1997:
TT: Okay. Um, I all this, I know with the sinus infection your probably not even thinking about it, um, have you taken any alcohol? How much alcohol . . .
PR: No. I don’t drink alcohol.
TT: Okay. Uh, do you drink alcohol at all?
PR: No. Not since I’ve been on the Paxel at all.
TT: Okay. When did you start the Paxel?
PR: Uh, I don’t know. February maybe.
TT: Okay. Beg…towards the beginning or the end of February?
PR: I can’t remember exactly.
TT: Okay. And the Adavan, did you start that about the same time?
PR: Simultaneously.
TT: Okay.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
ST: Patsy, in some ways I, I know more about your family than I know about my own, but uh, to the best of my knowledge and what everybody tells me neither you nor John are drinkers, your social drinkers as best. Did you have anything to drink on the night of the 25th at the Whites? A glass of wine.
PR: We may have had a glass of wine. I know John is very cautious about, I mean, knowing that he is going to fly the next, you know, does not, uh, you know, drink a lot.
ST: So certainly neither of you . . .
PR: I mean we may have had, and I’m very, I don’t drink a lot because my chemo did a number on my liver so I, I don’t, we just don’t drink a lot.



Fiber evidence from secondary transfer stands or falls on its own merits in court. Secondary transfer happens. Even LE can inadvertently cause it. Finding a fiber in a house where someone lives isn't very strong evidence. Also the fiber on the duct tape could have been picked up from the blanket.

[Louisadelmar]

Can't get it to save my edit.

If John's fibers are indeed, in JonBenet's crotch I would find that much more damning. Yet we are still talking about Patsy's fibers.

[shill]

Originally Posted by Ames

How DARE you say that about me and my children. You have offended me to the point of no return. (And to think that I PM'd you not too long ago about how nice you have been being lately). I am NOT the one that had a dead daughter in my basement, and the killing happened under my, my husband and son's noses. NOR were the fibers of my jacket, found on the duct tape, entwined in the ligature, the paint tray, AND the blanket. NOR was a fake ransom note found in my house....I could go ON AND ON AND ON. IF all the above could be said of ME....THEN...and ONLY THEN would you have the right to call me cold blooded (and you could add the word killer).....because THATS what I would be. I cannot BELIEVE that you said that if I had accidently killed my child, I would cover it up instead of getting help. You are as wrong as hell about that....because, I would WANT to get help.

Now you know how Patsy felt.... all the time.

Why would Patsy behave any differently then you Ames?
If Patsy accidentally killed her daughter as you say, why would she react any differently then you?

I can judge you just as easily as you judge Patsy from what I've read about you.

I could be wrong.

I'll admit it when you do.

Obviously....with all of that evidence....fibers...etc. Patsy chose not to. (If there were not so many things pointing toward Patsy's direction, I would say...sure, she would have called for help. But to me, the evidence points directly at Patsy lashing out in a rage, and trying to cover it up. BUT, that has nothing to do with me.

Are you saying it was obvious to her that her daughter might be dying and she would rather let her die then get blamed for it?
How are you as a parent more concerned for your children then Patsy was for hers Aims?

[LindaA]

Game, point, and match to Shill.

But Ames, I read your response to my post about throwing JBR down the steps. You missed my point. I was not claiming that they would have gotten away with that, just that itsn't it more logical for a preson to try and cover up a head bashing that way than to garotte a person? How does that disguise the head wound? Why would anyone think it would?

And Elvislives did respond to mey post on the other thread. I don't believe she is as sure as you seem to be that it might not have worked. Shaken baby is one thing, a blow to the head is another. Seems to me that my scenario make much more sense than the RDI theory that PR garotted JBR to cover up the accidental head-bashing.

[bullmoose]

To Ames: I do not think that it possible that someone strangled Jonbenet by hand and then covered it up with the garotte; this is because the bruising on the neck would be much wider than the bruising from the garotte; also it is my belief that her hyoid bone would have been fractured if strangled by hand.

[Ames]

Originally Posted by shill

Now you know how Patsy felt.... all the time.

Why would Patsy behave any differently then you Ames?
If Patsy accidentally killed her daughter as you say, why would she react any differently then you?

I can judge you just as easily as you judge Patsy from what I've read about you.

I could be wrong.

I'll admit it when you do.

Are you saying it was obvious to her that her daughter might be dying and she would rather let her die then get blamed for it?
How are you as a parent more concerned for your children then Patsy was for hers Aims?

All you did was lashed out at me, for being RDI. You are not going to change my mind, so don't keep insulting me. I don't call you an idiot for being IDI, now do I? Because I don't think that you are. But, for you to call me cold blooded, when there is absolutely no reason to, is totally uncalled for. And to anyone that agrees with shill, that I am cold blooded, I am done posting with you. I thought that we were all friends on this board, simply posting our scenarios of what happened to JB. I guess that I was wrong. And, there is a BIG difference between Patsy and ME. My child is not dead, was not found in my basement, did not have my jacket fibers all over her, did not have a fake ransom note in my house, did not splay my fingers and glare at the investigators through splayed fingers. REGARDLESS....it doesn't matter HOW I feel about Patsy, and I COULD BE WRONG about my theory, we should quit bashing the other posters, because they have a different theory. You personally insulted me, and that has NOTHING whatsoever to do with Patsy, except for the fact that you think that she is innocent...and you are trying to get back at me for being RDI. You judged me when you had no right to...NOW...if my child had died under the same circumstances, THEN you could judge me....because with all of that evidence pointing my way, I would probably be guilty. (IMO)

[Ames]

Originally Posted by LindaA

Game, point, and match to Shill.

But Ames, I read your response to my post about throwing JBR down the steps. You missed my point. I was not claiming that they would have gotten away with that, just that itsn't it more logical for a preson to try and cover up a head bashing that way than to garotte a person? How does that disguise the head wound? Why would anyone think it would?

And Elvislives did respond to mey post on the other thread. I don't believe she is as sure as you seem to be that it might not have worked. Shaken baby is one thing, a blow to the head is another. Seems to me that my scenario make much more sense than the RDI theory that PR garotted JBR to cover up the accidental head-bashing.

Okay, so you are agreeing with him that I am cold blooded, just because I am RDI....that's just not right. I am done posting on this board. It has been fun, and I seriously will miss you.

[LindaA]

Ames, I know Shill's attack seems personal, but I really don't think it was. He was just trying to make a point about understanding how Patsy felt for the last 10 years of her life. We find it very easy to condemn Patsy when we are so sure she did it, but he was trying to say we would react in the same way if accused of doing harm to our children.

[Ames]

Originally Posted by LindaA

Ames, I know Shill's attack seems personal, but I really don't think it was. He was just trying to make a point about understanding how Patsy felt for the last 10 years of her life. We find it very easy to condemn Patsy when we are so sure she did it, but he was trying to say we would react in the same way if accused of doing harm to our children.

Thanks for trying to explain him to me, but I personally think he was attacking ME as a parent. Because he says that he thinks that he knows a little about me from my post. So, I guess that he thinks that gives him the right to call me cold blooded.

Shills comments to me...

"I can judge you just as easily as you judge Patsy from what I've read about you.
I could be wrong.

I'll admit it when you do."

Originally Posted by Ames

How DARE you say that about me and my children. You have offended me to the point of no return. (And to think that I PM'd you not too long ago about how nice you have been being lately). I am NOT the one that had a dead daughter in my basement, and the killing happened under my, my husband and son's noses. NOR were the fibers of my jacket, found on the duct tape, entwined in the ligature, the paint tray, AND the blanket. NOR was a fake ransom note found in my house....I could go ON AND ON AND ON. IF all the above could be said of ME....THEN...and ONLY THEN would you have the right to call me cold blooded (and you could add the word killer).....because THATS what I would be. I cannot BELIEVE that you said that if I had accidently killed my child, I would cover it up instead of getting help. You are as wrong as hell about that....because, I would WANT to get help. Obviously....with all of that evidence....fibers...etc. Patsy chose not to. (If there were not so many things pointing toward Patsy's direction, I would say...sure, she would have called for help. But to me, the evidence points directly at Patsy lashing out in a rage, and trying to cover it up. BUT, that has nothing to do with me.

Ames is certainly not coldblooded. I suspect that she is very passionate about this crime because her daughter (like mine) bears a striking resemblance to JB. Correct me if I'm wrong Ames, but I am assuming that the picture is of your daughter? In any case, I think she like the rest of us is just trying to figure out the truth. The only issue I have with Ames is her obsessive and compulsive use of the BOLD feature.

[LindaA]

Elvislives, she doesn't use bold that often -- just when she is really riled up. But be thankful that that's all she did this time. I've seen her -- let us say-- in a much worse mood over what someone said to her. She was showing remarkable restraint.

I think we all feel strongly about his case for whatever reason. I have a little 3 year old granddaughter who looks nothing like JBR, but when I think of someone doing what was done to JBR to my granddaughter, I wonder what I would do to them.

I still think Shill as rude as he/she sometimes may be, is trying to make a point to us all about how easily we judge the Ramseys -- every facet of their lives. It's almost as if they aren't real people with real feelings.

It may have been a low blow, but I think Shill was trying to make us all see that we would react in much the same way as the Ramseys did when accused of murdering our child. Obviously he made his point with you, Ames.

Originally Posted by Ames

I saw your post on staging an accidental death scene. And I posted back to you, on another thread, that Doctor's can usually figure out how a person got an injury. Like for example...someone bringing in a child with a broken arm, and telling the dr. that the child "fell". Or, shaken baby syndrome...the person that shook the baby is going to lie, so they don't go to jail....trying to come up with another scenario as to why the baby's brains are scrambled....but, the Doctors know that they are lying, because whatever scenario they give, it just doesn't jive or mesh with the injury. I am sure that the doctors would be able to look at JB's head injury, and for some reason, it wouldn't jive with her falling down the stairs. Maybe the skull is cracked in the wrong place, or whatever. The doctors can usually tell though. Ask elvislives...she is an ER doctor...she would know alot more about this than I would.

Yup, it would be hard to explain the hole in her skull from a fall down the stairs. It's possible she could have knocked her head against something on the way down that caused the hole, but that would definitely be a suspicious injury and would warrant an investigation by CPS.

[nuisanceposter]

Stop excusing Shill's unacceptable behavior. He's making personal attacks on other posters when that is completely unnecessary and uncalled for. I'm sure he's intelligent enough to come up with a way to make a point that doesn't leave someone feeling as bad as he's intentionally making Ames feel. He practically follows her around to badger her again and again because he knows he'll get a rise out of her - imo, that's cruel and immature. There's a better way to make a point that to leave someone feeling as thought they need to defend themselves against personal attacks - and what he's said to Ames *are* personal attacks.

[LindaA]

NP, excusing and explaining are two different things. I never said his/her behavior is acceptable. I do think he/she makes a very good point.

[nuisanceposter]

IMO, saying he's making good points while doing so in the form of a personal attack is excusing it and condoning it.

All I'm saying is, there's a better way to get your point across than sandwiching it in a post filled with thinly veiled (or outright) insults and mockery. I could be insulting him right now, but I can do better than that. I think he can too.

[rashomon]

Originally Posted by Louisadelmar

Two unrelated things:

1. Who among us knows where our fibers are in our house? My assumption is mine are all over my stuff as well as my kids stuff.


2. I think people (and particularly people who have had a fairly comfortable childhood and life) nearly always assume bad things won't happen. Or if they do happen someone will be able to fix it. They or their sick or injured child will get better. Patsy survived cancer when the odds were against her. I just can't see Patsy taking it upon herself to decide JonBenet was going to die from an invisible head bash and then hurrying the process along.

Even if JonBenet had been pouring out blood or laying there with her head twisted off to the side from a broken neck, Patsy would still have believed that somehow the doctors (and prayer) could save her and make it all right. Therefore she wouldn't kill her.

For whatever reason(s), Patsy Ramsey did NOT consider calling the hospital an option, and nor did John.
And I can think of several reasons why they didn't call:

1) the ER staff may not have bought their story. ER staff are trained to take a very close look at parents who bring their severley injured child to the hospital. In addition, this would have been in the middle of the night - another red flag.
1) Can you imagine a type like Patsy Ramsey wanting to be saddled with a severely brain-injured child? Pushing around her former perfect little doll in a wheelchair in a 'vegetable' state? With people whispering behind her back: "Look, that's Patsy Ramsey over there. She says her daughter fell down the stairs, but who knows if that's true ...!"
3) Another possibility: since the Ramseys were no medical experts, there was no way for them to know if JB, maybe after weeks in a coma, would not have woken up one day and have told the truth: "Mommy hit me!"

[rashomon]

Originally Posted by Louisadelmar

Can't get it to save my edit.

If John's fibers are indeed, in JonBenet's crotch I would find that much more damning. Yet we are still talking about Patsy's fibers.

Fibers from the shirt John Ramsey was wearing on that night were found in the crotch area of JB's oversized underpants.
And fibers from the jacket Patsy Ramsey was wearing on that night were found in incriminating locations too.

The fiber evidence implicates both Ramseys. Imo one can't downplay the fiber evidence aganst one Ramsey while stressing the fiber evidence against the other.

[LindaA]

Originally Posted by elvislives

Yup, it would be hard to explain the hole in her skull from a fall down the stairs. It's possible she could have knocked her head against something on the way down that caused the hole, but that would definitely be a suspicious injury and would warrant an investigation by CPS.

I agree. That's why I said leavae the flashlight or some other object near her at the bottom of the stairs. I think that's much more plausible a cover-eup than twhat actually happened.

[LindaA]

Originally Posted by nuisanceposter

IMO, saying he's making good points while doing so in the form of a personal attack is excusing it and condoning it.

All I'm saying is, there's a better way to get your point across than sandwiching it in a post filled with thinly veiled (or outright) insults and mockery. I could be insulting him right now, but I can do better than that. I think he can too.

Whatever.

[LindaA]

Originally Posted by rashomon

For whatever reason(s), Patsy Ramsey did NOT consider calling the hospital an option, and nor did John.
And I can think of several reasons why they didn't call:

1) the ER staff may not have bought their story. ER staff are trained to take a very close look at parents who bring their severley injured child to the hospital. In addition, this would have been in the middle of the night - another red flag.
1) Can you imagine a type like Patsy Ramsey wanting to be saddled with a severely brain-injured child? Pushing around her former perfect little doll in a wheelchair in a 'vegetable' state? With people whispering behind her back: "Look, that's Patsy Ramsey over there. She says her daughter fell down the stairs, but who knows if that's true ...!"
3) Another possibility: since the Ramseys were no medical experts, there was no way for them to know if JB, maybe after weeks in a coma, would not have woken up one day and have told the truth: "Mommy hit me!"

And how is what you think they did better than any of those alternatives?

[shill]

Originally Posted by Ames

All you did was lashed out at me, for being RDI. You are not going to change my mind, so don't keep insulting me. I don't call you an idiot for being IDI, now do I? Because I don't think that you are. But, for you to call me cold blooded, when there is absolutely no reason to, is totally uncalled for. And to anyone that agrees with shill, that I am cold blooded, I am done posting with you. I thought that we were all friends on this board, simply posting our scenarios of what happened to JB. I guess that I was wrong. And, there is a BIG difference between Patsy and ME. My child is not dead, was not found in my basement, did not have my jacket fibers all over her, did not have a fake ransom note in my house, did not splay my fingers and glare at the investigators through splayed fingers. REGARDLESS....it doesn't matter HOW I feel about Patsy, and I COULD BE WRONG about my theory, we should quit bashing the other posters, because they have a different theory. You personally insulted me, and that has NOTHING whatsoever to do with Patsy, except for the fact that you think that she is innocent...and you are trying to get back at me for being RDI. You judged me when you had no right to...NOW...if my child had died under the same circumstances, THEN you could judge me....because with all of that evidence pointing my way, I would probably be guilty. (IMO)

You're so wrong, I'm not trying to get back at you for anything and it's not because you're RDI.
You're no different then Patsy. Why should I think you are, just because you say you are.
And might I remind you that I don't think Patsy is a cold bloded killer, but I do think you and she are alike.
Patsy had a choice, and I don't think it was the same as yours.

[shill]

Originally Posted by rashomon

For whatever reason(s), Patsy Ramsey did NOT consider calling the hospital an option, and nor did John.
And I can think of several reasons why they didn't call:

1) the ER staff may not have bought their story. ER staff are trained to take a very close look at parents who bring their severley injured child to the hospital. In addition, this would have been in the middle of the night - another red flag.
1) Can you imagine a type like Patsy Ramsey wanting to be saddled with a severely brain-injured child? Pushing around her former perfect little doll in a wheelchair in a 'vegetable' state? With people whispering behind her back: "Look, that's Patsy Ramsey over there. She says her daughter fell down the stairs, but who knows if that's true ...!"
3) Another possibility: since the Ramseys were no medical experts, there was no way for them to know if JB, maybe after weeks in a coma, would not have woken up one day and have told the truth: "Mommy hit me!"

I can imagine Patsy would cherish JB now matter how she was as long as she was alive. And I think she would face whatever punishment she had to if it gave her a second chance with her daughter.
How can you imagine otherwise?
Are these the choices you would make over possibly saving your daughters life?
I guess I'm not cold-blooded enough to become a RDI.

[rashomon]

Originally Posted by LindaA

And how is what you think they did better than any of those alternatives?

I'm not sure at all that the Ramseys thought they would get away with the crime. But they took a 'wild shot' (I'm not sure if you call it like that in English) at it with that silly note and their staging, and - probably to their own surprise - it worked.
Investigative ineptness coupled with cowardice on the part of the DA staff played into the hands of the Ramseys - down to the present day.

[shill]

Originally Posted by nuisanceposter

Stop excusing Shill's unacceptable behavior. He's making personal attacks on other posters when that is completely unnecessary and uncalled for. I'm sure he's intelligent enough to come up with a way to make a point that doesn't leave someone feeling as bad as he's intentionally making Ames feel. He practically follows her around to badger her again and again because he knows he'll get a rise out of her - imo, that's cruel and immature. There's a better way to make a point that to leave someone feeling as thought they need to defend themselves against personal attacks - and what he's said to Ames *are* personal attacks.

It's a public post. If Patsy and everyone in the investigation is fair game, then everyone else investigating and passing judgment is fair game.
If you’re going to say bad things about people, then you should expect the same.

Ames post everywhere all the time. No need to follow her around.

[rashomon]

Originally Posted by shill

I can imagine Patsy would cherish JB now matter how she was as long as she was alive. And I think she would face whatever punishment she had to if it gave her a second chance with her daughter.
How can you imagine otherwise?
Are these the choices you would make over possibly saving your daughters life?
I guess I'm not cold-blooded enough to become a RDI.

You are not 'cold-blooded' enough to take a good hard look
at the Ramseys which might burst your bubble, that's all.
What 'second chance', Shill? Do you think Patsy would have been able to attend to her severely brain-injured child day by day, knowing that she was responsible for it?
Answer yourself this question honestly, Shill: Could YOU live with that?
I can imagine that if there hadn't been Burke left to care for, Patsy would have committed suicide after realizing what she had done.

[LindaA]

Originally Posted by rashomon

You are not 'cold-blooded' enough to take a good hard look
at the Ramseys which might burst your bubble, that's all.
What 'second chance', Shill? Do you think Patsy would have been able to attend to her severely brain-injured child day by day, knowing that she was responsible for it?
Answer yourself this question honestly, Shill: Could YOU live with that?
I can imagine that if there hadn't been Burke left to care for, Patsy would have committed suicide after realizing what she had done.

Rash, you're going waaaay out on a limb here. This kind of speculation is not helpful or productive. How do you think you know Patsy well enough to know what she would do. Or Shill for that matter. No one knows what anyone would do -- ourselves included faced with that situation. And besides, if PR had done this to JBR, I don't know how she would have known what condition she was in.