Christmas Lights On The Staircase

[Ames]

I stumbled upon this on FFJ. A poster there had a still photo of the Ramsey's spiral staircase, that was taken right after the murder. There's garland (which was found in JB's hair)...AND a string of lights wrapped around the staircase railings. This poster on FFJ wondered if those lights are what caused the marks on JB (that had orginally been thought to have been from a stun gun). Look at the picture...there is NO way that an intruder would have been able to carry JB down that winding, narrow staircase without holding to the railing....problem with that is, there is NO place to put your hand....the garland and the lights are in the way. And besides that...there is a china cabinet at the very end of the staircase...so, we are supposed to believe that an intruder took JB from her bedroom, went down that narrow, spiral staircase...in the dark...and completely missed the china cabinet...which would have made a bunch of noise if someone had of ran into it? Please check out this link...there is also pictures of the home that were taken from a video of the Ramsey's home, back in 1994. There is rope that is used for decoration in the home (could it be the rope found in one of the bedrooms...that was never tested?) Check it out....

http://www.forumsforjustice.org/foru...2&page=1&pp=12

[Louisadelmar]

I'm pretty sure the cord on the table was something like this:

http://trimsplus.com/Merchant2/merch...dingwithoutlip

[shill]

Originally Posted by Ames

Look at the picture...there is NO way that an intruder would have been able to carry JB down that winding, narrow staircase without holding to the railing....problem with that is, there is NO place to put your hand....the garland and the lights are in the way.

http://www.forumsforjustice.org/foru...2&page=1&pp=12

You wouldn't put a hand on the rail because you have your hands full, your carrying JB. To me it implies her head was to his right towards the rail and her feet were to his left towards the inside of the rail as he carried her down.

[Louisadelmar]

Or he carried her down the front stairs because he'd put the note on the back ones.

[Ames]

Originally Posted by Louisadelmar

I'm pretty sure the cord on the table was something like this:

http://trimsplus.com/Merchant2/merch...dingwithoutlip

Nope, thats not the rope...there is a picture of the Ramsey's dining room table...decorated with rope...and its just PLAIN ROPE...nothing fancy, like what you posted. Go back and read all of the posts...on FFJ...you will run across it.

[Ames]

Originally Posted by Louisadelmar

Or he carried her down the front stairs because he'd put the note on the back ones.

The spiral stair case is the one closest to the basement, though. I believe that an "intruder" would want to take the shortest route. And we don't know WHEN he put the note there on the spiral steps. That could have possibly been done AFTER the murder, while she was in the basement.

[Ames]

The picture of the rope on the Ramsey's Dining Room table, is in post #30 of FFJ. I tried to copy it, but its a screenshot...so I couldn't. Sorry....

[Ames]

Originally Posted by shill

You wouldn't put a hand on the rail because you have your hands full, your carrying JB. To me it implies her head was to his right towards the rail and her feet were to his left towards the inside of the rail as he carried her down.

Well, THATS even more unbelievable....an intruder, coming down that steep, spriral staircase, in the dark, holding an unconscious 6 year old, without holding on, or bumping her into the china cabinet. WOW...he must have been GOOD!!!

[shill]

Originally Posted by Ames

Well, THATS even more unbelievable....an intruder, coming down that steep, spriral staircase, in the dark, holding an unconscious 6 year old, without holding on, or bumping her into the china cabinet. WOW...he must have been GOOD!!!

I don't know how hard it would be to do that and I believe the kitchen light was on and probably spilled enough light to see.
If he didn't carry her down the spiral stairs, do you have an explanation for the garland in her hair?

[Ames]

Originally Posted by shill

I don't know how hard it would be to do that and I believe the kitchen light was on and probably spilled enough light to see.
If he didn't carry her down the spiral stairs, do you have an explanation for the garland in her hair?

I am wondering if there were any pieces of garland on the basement floor. OR...he could have carried her down the front stairway..as another poster mentioned. BUT...I am sure that if the BACK spiral staircase was decorated...then the front ones most certainly would have been also. I don't think that an intruder would have gone down those steps though, because the spiral ones were closer to the basement. I believe he would have taken the shortest route. IF there was indeed an intruder. If one or both Ramsey's did it, I feel sure that it would have been an entirely different scenario. IMO

[thewhitewitch1]

Originally Posted by shill

I don't know how hard it would be to do that and I believe the kitchen light was on and probably spilled enough light to see.
If he didn't carry her down the spiral stairs, do you have an explanation for the garland in her hair?

Didn't JR claim that he carried her up the spiral stairs from the car?
Also, since Christmas trees and decor were kept in the wine cellar, she could have picked the garland up from the floor there.

[Ames]

Originally Posted by thewhitewitch1

Didn't JR claim that he carried her up the spiral stairs from the car?
Also, since Christmas trees and decor were kept in the wine cellar, she could have picked the garland up from the floor there.

Yep, according to the posters at FFJ, he did. I don't know where they got their information from. I do know that Burke had originally said that JB WALKED UP the spiral staircase...I have posted that already...and can go back and get the link if needed. I personally could see JB walking up the spiral staircase, alot easier than John carrying her. I believe, if I had of been John, I would have woke her up and made her walk up, IF she had really been asleep (because of safety reasons) before trying to carry her. (IMO)

[Ames]

This is the statement about Burke saying that JB walked up the spiral staircase.

JonBenet, Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation
Released on April 11, 2000
Written by Steve Thomas with Don Davis

Excerpts from Steve Thomas book, "JonBenet, Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation" showing dialog from the 911 call and other information that related directly to the 911 call the morning of December 26, 1996 and whether Burke Ramsey was sleeping or awake.

Page 317: With his legs pulled up and his chin on his knees, Burke said he played some Nintendo on the afternoon of December 25. When showed a photograph of the pineapple and bowl, he recognized the bowl. That showed it belonged in the house and not brought in by an intruder. He recalled nothing unusual at the Whites' party other than getting a mild shock from the electric deer fence outside. He said his sister fell asleep in the car on the way home but awakened to help carry presents into the house of a friend. When they got home, JonBenet walked in slowly and walked up the spiral stairs to bed, just ahead of Patsy. That was quite a difference from the initial and frequently repeated story that she was carried to bed. I felt that this poor kid was confused and that he really had no idea what had happened that night. He heard the house creaking during the night, he said, and when he awoke, his mother was turning on the lights and in a rush, saying, "Oh my gosh, oh my gosh," then his father turned the lights on and off again. Burke stayed in bed wondering if something had happened. He heard his father trying to calm his mother, then telling her to call the police. Burke told the detective he did not get out of bed that morning and that a policeman looked into his room. He recalled thinking that when the police arrived "we would probably be tied up all day" and that he was disappointed the family would not be going to Charlevoix as planned."

I personally do not see how Burke could have confused JB walking up the spiral staircase, with his dad carrying her up the FRONT staircase. (So, from what I have read...when John said that he carried her to bed...he used the spiral staircase).

[shill]

Originally Posted by Ames

Yep, according to the posters at FFJ, he did. I don't know where they got their information from. I do know that Burke had originally said that JB WALKED UP the spiral staircase...I have posted that already...and can go back and get the link if needed. I personally could see JB walking up the spiral staircase, alot easier than John carrying her. I believe, if I had of been John, I would have woke her up and made her walk up, IF she had really been asleep (because of safety reasons) before trying to carry her. (IMO)

It appears she can be carried up the stairs with out grabbing on to the handrail.

[Louisadelmar]

There is a more complete picture of the spiral staircase here:

http://www.jameson245.com/bestnote.htm

[nuisanceposter]

Those stairs would awfully difficult to nagivate carrying a sleeping 6 year old. Hmmm, and it looks like skipping a step while coming down would likely send you right down on your butt.

Gosh, I see Jameson has some info wrong on that page you linked...big surprise.

[Louisadelmar]

Originally Posted by nuisanceposter

Those stairs would awfully difficult to nagivate carrying a sleeping 6 year old. Hmmm, and it looks like skipping a step while coming down would likely send you right down on your butt.

Gosh, I see Jameson has some info wrong on that page you linked...big surprise.

Which is the wrong info? I was looking for the L&L note text so I didn't check the rest of the page.

[shill]

Originally Posted by nuisanceposter

Those stairs would awfully difficult to nagivate carrying a sleeping 6 year old. Hmmm, and it looks like skipping a step while coming down would likely send you right down on your butt.

I think I could pass that test no problem, but then again, I ice skate, snowboard, and skateboard.

[andU]

Originally Posted by shill

I don't know how hard it would be to do that and I believe the kitchen light was on and probably spilled enough light to see.
If he didn't carry her down the spiral stairs, do you have an explanation for the garland in her hair?

that china cabinet could also be lit, just a possibility...

[andU]

Originally Posted by shill

It appears she can be carried up the stairs with out grabbing on to the handrail.

She could have if she were carried over his shoulder....much easier to carry an older child that way.

[nuisanceposter]

Originally Posted by Louisadelmar

Which is the wrong info? I was looking for the L&L note text so I didn't check the rest of the page.

She's got the info about fingerprints found on the note pad wrong. She said only two were found, when seven were found - one was from the police sergeant, one was from a lab examiner, and the five others were Patsy's.

I'm sure if I look a bit harder I could find other info she got wrong. Jameson doesn't have a very good reputation for being a fair and honest person, and she's been accused by others of putting out misinformation in the past - or just outright being wrong and not bothering to correct herself.

IMO.

[nuisanceposter]

Originally Posted by shill

I think I could pass that test no problem, but then again, I ice skate, snowboard, and skateboard.

And JR was a 50 year old businessman who sailed on occasion. I don't see him getting a sleeping 6 year old up that spiral staircase with no trouble, especially when he originally told police he tucked her in bed and read her a story.

[Louisadelmar]

Now I see it. Thanks.

[Ames]

Do you guys think that it is possible that the lights that were wrapped around the staircase railing, could be the source of those injuries on JB that look like stun gun marks? Back in 1996, or around that time...there had been a recall on those types of lights, because they got too hot...and would burn down people's Christmas trees...and sometimes, even their houses. They are not hot to the touch now, just warm....but that was ten years ago. (IMO)

[andU]

Originally Posted by Ames

Do you guys think that it is possible that the lights that were wrapped around the staircase railing, could be the source of those injuries on JB that look like stun gun marks? Back in 1996, or around that time...there had been a recall on those types of lights, because they got too hot...and would burn down people's Christmas trees...and sometimes, even their houses. They are not hot to the touch now, just warm....but that was ten years ago. (IMO)

I would have to say that nothing should be ruled out without further investigation.... although my gut instinct is negative.

[shill]

Originally Posted by nuisanceposter

And JR was a 50 year old businessman who sailed on occasion. I don't see him getting a sleeping 6 year old up that spiral staircase with no trouble, especially when he originally told police he tucked her in bed and read her a story.

Going up would be 10 times easier then going down.

[shill]

Originally Posted by Ames

Do you guys think that it is possible that the lights that were wrapped around the staircase railing, could be the source of those injuries on JB that look like stun gun marks? Back in 1996, or around that time...there had been a recall on those types of lights, because they got too hot...and would burn down people's Christmas trees...and sometimes, even their houses. They are not hot to the touch now, just warm....but that was ten years ago. (IMO)

Yes, I was thinking that too.

[Ames]

Originally Posted by shill

Yes, I was thinking that too.

I think that it makes more sense than a stun gun...what do you think??

[shill]

Originally Posted by Ames

I think that it makes more sense than a stun gun...what do you think??

I have never bought into the stun gun being used by Ramseys or an intruder. The lights make sense for the areas the marks are in.

[Coloradokares]

Originally Posted by shill

I have never bought into the stun gun being used by Ramseys or an intruder. The lights make sense for the areas the marks are in.

I am thinking its brilliant that you both thought of this. High five to both of you. However one small question and I am not disagreeing only wondering. Maybe its a presumption again. Do most people turn off any lighted christmas garland or trees etc. upon retiring and if so, would the bulbs still be warm enough to be the marks your considering? Only if this all took place very quickly after going to bed I'd think. So maybe if so does that help to frame the time of her being taken to the basement. Not to throw a monkey wrench into things... as I don't believe it was a stun gun. Lighting such as this would again have even spacing as well and could leave the marks as you suggest. Just would the bulbs still have been that warm?

[andU]

Originally Posted by Coloradokares

I am thinking its brilliant that you both thought of this. High five to both of you. However one small question and I am not disagreeing only wondering. Maybe its a presumption again. Do most people turn off any lighted christmas garland or trees etc. upon retiring and if so, would the bulbs still be warm enough to be the marks your considering? Only if this all took place very quickly after going to bed I'd think. So maybe if so does that help to frame the time of her being taken to the basement. Not to throw a monkey wrench into things... as I don't believe it was a stun gun. Lighting such as this would again have even spacing as well and could leave the marks as you suggest. Just would the bulbs still have been that warm?

I'm thinking they may have been left on ... many people leave them on for Christmas Eve and Christmas Day (besides, it probably helped lighten the stairway). Since it was so late and they had the trip to prepare for, they may have been left on as an oversight, also. I would think that everyone would be exhausted from the holiday events, children and adults.

[Coloradokares]

Originally Posted by andU

I'm thinking they may have been left on ... many people leave them on for Christmas Eve and Christmas Day (besides, it probably helped lighten the stairway). Since it was so late and they had the trip to prepare for, they may have been left on as an oversight, also. I would think that everyone would be exhausted from the holiday events, children and adults.

Quite possible your right. We are never home for Christmas anymore. Family branchs out as children have families of their own. So we have really cut down the decorating. But I have always cautious about the garland and trees lighting. We have ours on timers. But that would explain navigatibility of the stairway if the decorations were casting a warm glow over the circular and main stairways. I wonder if anyone has read any info that specifically speaks to the garland lighting and tree lighting if it was on all night etc?

[andU]

Originally Posted by Coloradokares

Quite possible your right. We are never home for Christmas anymore. Family branchs out as children have families of their own. So we have really cut down the decorating. But I have always cautious about the garland and trees lighting. We have ours on timers. But that would explain navigatibility of the stairway if the decorations were casting a warm glow over the circular and main stairways. I wonder if anyone has read any info that specifically speaks to the garland lighting and tree lighting if it was on all night etc?

Has anyone seen photos of the crime scene that may have included shots of the stairs? That would (maybe) show whether there were lights entwined in the garland, huh?

[Coloradokares]

Originally Posted by andU

Has anyone seen photos of the crime scene that may have included shots of the stairs? That would (maybe) show whether there were lights entwined in the garland, huh?

Here is a link to a picture posted at FFJ that is from just after the murder.

http://www.forumsforjustice.org/foru...2&page=1&pp=12

I believe this was posted here before. Does not seem like it was that long ago if my memory bank is correct about that. But yes it does show lit lights in the garland.

[shill]

If the lights were on all night, it certainly would have made it easier to see where you're going up and down the steps, and the lights being on at those steps might have been why they were chosen for the ransom note. The other steps might have been dark.

[Coloradokares]

Originally Posted by shill

If the lights were on all night, it certainly would have made it easier to see where you're going up and down the steps, and the lights being on at those steps might have been why they were chosen for the ransom note. The other steps might have been dark.

I just posted a link to a picture of the garland lights on the spiral staircase that whynut from FFJ posted. Supposedly taken after the murder. I have the link in my favorites and on viewing history if you need the link reposted....I don't know how much light it would shed. But one would think at least a very dim glow.

[Ames]

Originally Posted by Coloradokares

I am thinking its brilliant that you both thought of this. High five to both of you. However one small question and I am not disagreeing only wondering. Maybe its a presumption again. Do most people turn off any lighted christmas garland or trees etc. upon retiring and if so, would the bulbs still be warm enough to be the marks your considering? Only if this all took place very quickly after going to bed I'd think. So maybe if so does that help to frame the time of her being taken to the basement. Not to throw a monkey wrench into things... as I don't believe it was a stun gun. Lighting such as this would again have even spacing as well and could leave the marks as you suggest. Just would the bulbs still have been that warm?

High five right back at ya!!! The picture that I posted on the first post of this thread, has the lights on....and it supposedly was taken right after the murder. I am guessing, from the picture....that they left them on all of the time. And why would anyone, but the Ramsey's, turn the lights on...just to take that picture. I am not sure of the exact time that the picture was taken...just that it was taken shortly after the murder.

[Tober]

Originally Posted by Ames

Do you guys think that it is possible that the lights that were wrapped around the staircase railing, could be the source of those injuries on JB that look like stun gun marks? Back in 1996, or around that time...there had been a recall on those types of lights, because they got too hot...and would burn down people's Christmas trees...and sometimes, even their houses. They are not hot to the touch now, just warm....but that was ten years ago. (IMO)

Burns from the Christmas lights can be ruled out, as the autopsy report identifies the marks as abrasions: http://www.denver.rockymountainnews....y/autopsy.html

[shill]

Originally Posted by Tober

Burns from the Christmas lights can be ruled out, as the autopsy report identifies the marks as abrasions: http://www.denver.rockymountainnews....y/autopsy.html

The marks are alleged to be abrasions from the snaps on her outfit.
But they are in unusual places for that.
The source of their creation is unkown.
IMO their source is still up for speculation.

[shill]

4 JOHN RAMSEY: Just that it was
5 laying this, she came down the steps, and she
6 said at first she thought it was a note from the
7 cleaning lady, because it kind of looked like
8 her handwriting, just didn't put much account to
9 it. I mean, what is somewhat meaningful is that
10 that's -- 95 percent of the time we came up and
11 down that stairway.
12 LOU SMIT: You used it all
13 the time?
14 JOHN RAMSEY: All the time.