First Hand Knowledge On How It Feels To Be Strangled!!

[Ames]

Okay, first of all ...I would like to say that I probably shouldn't have started a new thread for this, but...I didn't know where else to put it, and I am sure that it will get merged to where it belongs, anyway.

I would just like to say that when I was really young, and in Elementary School, I rode the bus with a high school boy, that I swear was satan's son. He was really mean to all of the younger kids on the bus. While I was sitting in one of the seats, minding my OWN business, he was sitting directly behind me. He took a cord, about the width of a shoe string, and placed it in front of my neck, and began to pull as hard as he could, from behind. As he was doing this, I heard his grunts....from pulling so tight...and in between his grunts, his laughter. He apparently thought this was funny!! Anyway, I can still remember gasping for air, as my throat closed in...and also scratching my neck, trying desperately to remove the cord so that I could breathe. As I was about to lose conciousness....satan's son finally let go. I will never forget that feeling as long as I live. Having your airway cut off, is a terrible feeling. I almost clawed my neck to shreds...just trying to get my fingers under it enough so that I could at least TRY to pull it away. My strength, being an elementary student, was no match for the male (satan's son) high school student. He was suspended from the BUS! Geez....what a "high" price to pay, for "merely" tryng to strangle someone. His butt should have gone to juvenille detention. I was not the only person that he did this to, this guy was a "real sweetheart". Now for the reason that I have went into my memory bank, and pulled this out....I believe that JB's head injury came first..and then the strangulation....or ELSE...she would have had severe scratches on her neck, from trying to remove the cord, AND would have had lots of her own FRESH skin (not old dna that is always present) under her fingernails. IMO the head wound came first...followed by the strangulation. Trust me....I should know. (IMO)

[bullmoose]

I wonder, whatever happened to this twisted boy? Usually at least in my own experience people that exhibit the kind of behavior that you are talking about go on to bigger and better things. If he was fantasizing about strangling someone, and it seems like he must have been, then he was displaying a disturbing personality disorder really young. I would wonder if he got any help or did he end up in prison? Your point about the blow coming first makes a lot of sense in the context of your experience.

[shill]

That is a terrifing experience that no one should ever have to go through. I have no doubt you and any one will struggle to no length to free ones self from strangulation.

But in JB's case, IMO her hands were restrained above her head. And I believe they were restrained well enough that she was helpless to do anything about the garrote around her neck, and that was the purpose of restraining her hands.

[Ames]

Originally posted by bullmoose
I wonder, whatever happened to this twisted boy? Usually at least in my own experience people that exhibit the kind of behavior that you are talking about go on to bigger and better things. If he was fantasizing about strangling someone, and it seems like he must have been, then he was displaying a disturbing personality disorder really young. I would wonder if he got any help or did he end up in prison? Your point about the blow coming first makes a lot of sense in the context of your experience.

You know, I have often wondered that my own self. He is probably in prison somewhere....hopefully rotting away. As soon as I posted my experience, I called my dad..and we talked about it, again...at length. The sad thing is, he had alot of brothers and sisters, and they were ALL mean (he took his meaness to another level, though). We had to take them to court, and get a restraining order. Like I said before, I will never, as long as I live, forget that feeling of my the front of my throat touching the back, and closing my airway....or the feeling of trying to move the cord, and not being able too...and in the process, practically shredding the skin on my throat, because of the scratching. I was around nine years old, and still remember it as if it happened yesterday. I have no idea what ever happened to him, or if he got the help that he needed. But, in my horrible experience....of being strangled to the point of coming close to unconciousness....and the fight for survival, the reason for the lack of scratches on JB's neck, and the lack of her own fresh skin under her nails....leads me to believe (or in my experience, I should say that I KNOW)...that she was hit on the head first...and then strangled. Having gone through what I did....I can say first hand...that being strangled...and having your air cut off...would be a HORRIBLE way to die. IMO

[Ames]

Originally posted by shill
That is a terrifing experience that no one should ever have to go through. I have no doubt you and any one will struggle to no length to free ones self from strangulation.

But in JB's case, IMO her hands were restrained above her head. And I believe they were restrained well enough that she was helpless to do anything about the garrote around her neck, and that was the purpose of restraining her hands.

I see your point....BUT...her hands were not restrained BEHIND her. They were over the top of her head, when she was found...with PLENTY of cord, between each wrist...she could have easily reached up and scratched herself, trying to break free of the cord. IMO....the ropes were put there AFTER the strangulation...I have not seen one link provided, that said that her wrists were tied in order to restrain her....all of the links that I have seen say that the tied wrists were part of the staging...either by her parents...if you are RDI..or by the intruder, if you are IDI. The ropes around her wrist served no purpose. IMO

[Ames]

Originally posted by shill


<snipped>
That is a terrifing experience that no one should ever have to go through. I have no doubt you and any one will struggle to no length to free ones self from strangulation.

Yes, it was terrifying...it would be bad enough as an adult to go through such a thing, but imagine a child having to go through it. And, how many people do you know personally, that has been through that, who has lived to tell about it? Probably not many...if any. I am one of the few...and far betweens.

[shill]

Originally posted by Ames


I see your point....BUT...her hands were not restrained BEHIND her. They were over the top of her head, when she was found...with PLENTY of cord, between each wrist...she could have easily reached up and scratched herself, trying to break free of the cord. IMO....the ropes were put there AFTER the strangulation...I have not seen one link provided, that said that her wrists were tied in order to restrain her....all of the links that I have seen say that the tied wrists were part of the staging...either by her parents...if you are RDI..or by the intruder, if you are IDI. The ropes around her wrist served no purpose. IMO

I strongly disagree with this reasoning.
IMO the length of cord was to hitch the cord to something above her head. If you are going to restrain someones hands, you need to tie them to something. The ligature wasn't a pair of handcuffs. I think it is obvious that in order for rigor motis to have left her hands suspend above her head, they would have been secured to something above her head that would prevent her hands from lowering and of course reaching her neck.

I have also read that the police can verify the killer by his knowledge of this ligature. IMO this means how it was used in this crime.

[Ames]

Originally posted by shill
I strongly disagree with this reasoning.
IMO the length of cord was to hitch the cord to something above her head. If you are going to restrain someones hands, you need to tie them to something. The ligature wasn't a pair of handcuffs. I think it is obvious that in order for rigor motis to have left her hands suspend above her head, they would have been secured to something above her head that would prevent her hands from lowering and of course reaching her neck.

I have also read that the police can verify the killer by his knowledge of this ligature. IMO this means how it was used in this crime.

So you are saying that you believe that she was hung up by the space of rope between her hands...that she was suspended. Why not just tie them behind her back...yes, like handcuffs. Why not just just tie them TOGETHER behind her back. I thought that, according to the rigormortis...and the bruising on the underside of the body, because of the blood pooling...I believe thats called livermortis, that it was determined that she was never suspended. What was she suspended to? A hook in the basement...or something? (If they had of suspected suspension, they would have looked around to find out what she could have been suspended from, and take that into evidence.) I have read a partial list of the evidence taken, and it wasn't on there. Of course, it could be that its because its only a PARTIAL list...but, that still doesn't explain the rigormortis, and the livermortis. Why would the perp hang her up, and then take her down....why not just leave her there hanging for shock value?? She was never suspended IMO

[bullmoose]

This is an intriguing and disturbing thought to me; Jonbenet's hands were above her head in rigor mortis, so if her hands were tied by the cord above her head she would have been in that position for some time before she was layed down or posed in the room she was found in. This would lengthen the time the killer/s were in the house after the horrific violence to Jonbenet by a considerable margin, wouldn't it take at least a couple of hours for her arms to stiffen above her head if suspended by the cord?

[Ames]

Originally posted by bullmoose
This is an intriguing and disturbing thought to me; Jonbenet's hands were above her head in rigor mortis, so if her hands were tied by the cord above her head she would have been in that position for some time before she was layed down or posed in the room she was found in. This would lengthen the time the killer/s were in the house after the horrific violence to Jonbenet by a considerable margin, wouldn't it take at least a couple of hours for her arms to stiffen above her head if suspended by the cord?

But how would the blood have pooled beneath her arms, if this was the case? Her blood was pooled on the back side of her...indicating that she had been there for awhile in the lying on her back postition. What exactly was she suspended to? Why was the rope so loose on her wrist that the coroner just slipped it off without any trouble? Why not just LEAVE her suspended...better yet...why not just leave her NAKED from the waist down and suspended. That would have REALLY got to John...if it had of been an intruder, which it wasn't. So, okay...now the intruder was kind enough, not only to re-dress her....but, after he suspended her, he took her down and laid her flat on her back? Okay...that makes no sense, if he was angry at John, and going for "pay back". IMO

[Ames]

But how would the blood have pooled beneath her arms, if this was the case? Her blood was pooled on the back side of her...indicating that she had been there for awhile in the lying on her back postition. What exactly was she suspended to? Why was the rope so loose on her wrist that the coroner just slipped it off without any trouble? Why not just LEAVE her suspended...better yet...why not just leave her NAKED from the waist down and suspended. That would have REALLY got to John...if it had of been an intruder, which it wasn't. So, okay...now the intruder was kind enough, not only to re-dress her....but, after he suspended her, he took her down and laid her flat on her back? Okay...that makes no sense, if he was angry at John, and going for "pay back". IMO I am an RDI...but, I don't think that even John suspended her.

[shill]

Originally posted by Ames



So you are saying that you believe that she was hung up by the space of rope between her hands...that she was suspended. Why not just tie them behind her back...yes, like handcuffs. Why not just just tie them TOGETHER behind her back. I thought that, according to the rigormortis...and the bruising on the underside of the body, because of the blood pooling...I believe thats called livermortis, that it was determined that she was never suspended. What was she suspended to? A hook in the basement...or something? (If they had of suspected suspension, they would have looked around to find out what she could have been suspended from, and take that into evidence.) I have read a partial list of the evidence taken, and it wasn't on there. Of course, it could be that its because its only a PARTIAL list...but, that still doesn't explain the rigormortis, and the livermortis. Why would the perp hang her up, and then take her down....why not just leave her there hanging for shock value?? She was never suspended IMO

If she is lying on a bed and her hands are tied to the head board or she is sitting in a chair and her hands are tied to a pipe above her head, this would account for her hands being over her head.
She wasn't hung like an ornament on a Christmas Tree.
And I don't think the perp wanted her discovered right away or he wouldn't have written the ransom note. The Ramseys would have found her dead around 5:30am, maybe sooner if they had woken and checked on her. A man hunt would have persued in the area, the airports would be watched and anyone trying to leave town. I don't think there are to many routes out of Boulder.

[Ames]

Originally posted by Ames
But how would the blood have pooled beneath her arms, if this was the case? Her blood was pooled on the back side of her...indicating that she had been there for awhile in the lying on her back postition. What exactly was she suspended to? Why was the rope so loose on her wrist that the coroner just slipped it off without any trouble? Why not just LEAVE her suspended...better yet...why not just leave her NAKED from the waist down and suspended. That would have REALLY got to John...if it had of been an intruder, which it wasn't. So, okay...now the intruder was kind enough, not only to re-dress her....but, after he suspended her, he took her down and laid her flat on her back? Okay...that makes no sense, if he was angry at John, and going for "pay back". IMO I am an RDI...but, I don't think that even John suspended her.

Sorry for the double post...I was trying to edit, but clicked the wrong thing. DUH....

[Ames]

Originally posted by shill
If she is lying on a bed and her hands are tied to the head board or she is sitting in a chair and her hands are tied to a pipe above her head, this would account for her hands being over her head.
She wasn't hung like an ornament on a Christmas Tree.
And I don't think the perp wanted her discovered right away or he wouldn't have written the ransom note. The Ramseys would have found her dead around 5:30am, maybe sooner if they had woken and checked on her. A man hunt would have persued in the area, the airports would be watched and anyone trying to leave town. I don't think there are to many routes out of Boulder.

Okay, I thought that you meant that she was suspended....yes, like an ornament on a Christmas Tree. Sorry...I misunderstood...

[shill]

Originally posted by Ames
But how would the blood have pooled beneath her arms, if this was the case? Her blood was pooled on the back side of her...indicating that she had been there for awhile in the lying on her back postition. What exactly was she suspended to? Why was the rope so loose on her wrist that the coroner just slipped it off without any trouble? Why not just LEAVE her suspended...better yet...why not just leave her NAKED from the waist down and suspended. That would have REALLY got to John...if it had of been an intruder, which it wasn't. So, okay...now the intruder was kind enough, not only to re-dress her....but, after he suspended her, he took her down and laid her flat on her back? Okay...that makes no sense, if he was angry at John, and going for "pay back". IMO I am an RDI...but, I don't think that even John suspended her.

She was laying on her back with her arms suspended over her head.

Do we really know for sure that she wasn't naked from the waist down?

[Ames]

Originally posted by shill
If she is lying on a bed and her hands are tied to the head board or she is sitting in a chair and her hands are tied to a pipe above her head, this would account for her hands being over her head.
She wasn't hung like an ornament on a Christmas Tree.
And I don't think the perp wanted her discovered right away or he wouldn't have written the ransom note. The Ramseys would have found her dead around 5:30am, maybe sooner if they had woken and checked on her. A man hunt would have persued in the area, the airports would be watched and anyone trying to leave town. I don't think there are to many routes out of Boulder.

So, if you think that she didn't claw her neck, because she was suspended...you must think that she was strangled first...while either tied to the bed, or sitting in a chair with her arms tied to a pipe...right?

[shill]

I think the garrote was being pulled from the front and downward(I'm not going to explain) and to keep her head restrained and from moving in this direction, her hands would have to be held above and behind her head.

[Ames]

Originally posted by shill
If she is lying on a bed and her hands are tied to the head board or she is sitting in a chair and her hands are tied to a pipe above her head, this would account for her hands being over her head.
She wasn't hung like an ornament on a Christmas Tree.
And I don't think the perp wanted her discovered right away or he wouldn't have written the ransom note. The Ramseys would have found her dead around 5:30am, maybe sooner if they had woken and checked on her. A man hunt would have persued in the area, the airports would be watched and anyone trying to leave town. I don't think there are to many routes out of Boulder.

Sorry, I am having troubles with my computer....geesh...I didn't mean to reply to the post again.

[Coloradokares]

Originally posted by shill
If she is lying on a bed and her hands are tied to the head board or she is sitting in a chair and her hands are tied to a pipe above her head, this would account for her hands being over her head.
She wasn't hung like an ornament on a Christmas Tree.
And I don't think the perp wanted her discovered right away or he wouldn't have written the ransom note. The Ramseys would have found her dead around 5:30am, maybe sooner if they had woken and checked on her. A man hunt would have persued in the area, the airports would be watched and anyone trying to leave town. I don't think there are to many routes out of Boulder.

There were a few but the perp was long gone by the time the body was found or not One reason why the Ramseys flight was delayed that John had called on regarding going to Atlanta. They were not flying anywhere with the body of their daughter having been found.

[shill]

Originally posted by Ames


So, if you think that she didn't claw her neck, because she was suspended...you must think that she was strangled first...while either tied to the bed, or sitting in a chair with her arms tied to a pipe...right?

Yes, but her death by strangulation might have been unintended.

[Ames]

Originally posted by shill
She was laying on her back with her arms suspended over her head.

Do we really know for sure that she wasn't naked from the waist down?

She wasn't when John found her, and thats what I meant...the perp would have left her there like that for John to find...IF he hated John so much. IMO

[shill]

Originally posted by Coloradokares


There were a few but the perp was long gone by the time the body was found or not One reason why the Ramseys flight was delayed that John had called on regarding going to Atlanta. They were not flying anywhere with the body of their daughter having been found.

I'd be checking for flights out of town on the 26th and 27th for anyone who was visiting Boulder.

[shill]

Originally posted by Ames


She wasn't when John found her, and thats what I meant...the perp would have left her there like that for John to find...IF he hated John so much. IMO

How do you know this for sure.
IMO John would have pulled her pants up before he took her upstairs if he had found her naked. There are no public photos of JB from the waist down. And this could be details they are keeping from the public to verify the real killer.

[Ames]

Originally posted by shill
How do you know this for sure.
IMO John would have pulled her pants up before he took her upstairs if he had found her naked. There are no public photos of JB from the waist down. And this could be details they are keeping from the public to verify the real killer.

I am just going by all of the news accounts and interviews by the Ramsey's that I have read. You could be right....but, all we know for certain is what they have told us...that she was dressed when she was found. So, thats all I have to go on....

[thewhitewitch1]

I am going with the head blow came first too. I think her arms were over her head just because that is the way they fell when she was laid down or they were positioned that way during the staging. You'd think that if she had been "suspended" (not like an ornament!) in any way, there'd have been some kind of abrasive marks on her wrists to indicate that. The cord around her wrist that wasn't removed by John was very loose. If she had been suspended, why would the killer loosen the cord after he was through?
Also, in regards to the depth of the ligature marks on her neck, the body goes into a stage where it bloats after death and this could simply be the result of that, though I am not certain what the time frame is for this period of decomposition. Sorry to be so graphic.

Ames, I am so sorry about your horrible experience!

[Ames]

Originally posted by thewhitewitch1
I am going with the head blow came first too. I think her arms were over her head just because that is the way they fell when she was laid down or they were positioned that way during the staging. You'd think that if she had been "suspended" (not like an ornament!) in any way, there'd have been some kind of abrasive marks on her wrists to indicate that. The cord around her wrist that wasn't removed by John was very loose. If she had been suspended, why would the killer loosen the cord after he was through?
Also, in regards to the depth of the ligature marks on her neck, the body goes into a stage where it bloats after death and this could simply be the result of that, though I am not certain what the time frame is for this period of decomposition. Sorry to be so graphic.

Ames, I am so sorry about your horrible experience!

Thank you TWW...I still remember it like it was yesterday!!!

I agree with you...I think that her arms were over her head, because thats the way that they fell, when she was laid down. If she had of been suspended...in any shape or form, she would have had abrasions....especially if she was concious, but...even if she wasn't, her weight pulling on her arms would have caused some sort of abrasion. Her neck looked swollen to me too....either from being bloated, or just from the trauma itself. IMO

[shill]

Originally posted by thewhitewitch1
The cord around her wrist that wasn't removed by John was very loose. If she had been suspended, why would the killer loosen the cord after he was through?
Also, in regards to the depth of the ligature marks on her neck, the body goes into a stage where it bloats after death and this could simply be the result of that, t

The killer didn't loosen the cord, they were still tight. John tried to undo both wrists. If they were as loose as you claim, why didn't John just slip them off her wrists? I have described this knot before. If he had tugged on the knot when he was trying to untie it, it would have loosened up the noose with out him undoing the knot.
The loops were on the outside of her sleeve and the rope looks soft to start with, so I would expect to see little damage. Are there photos of her bare wrists?
I don't think her neck looks bloated in proportion to her head, and her neck would be very thin in proportion to her head if the tightened garrote represents her actual neck size.

[Ames]

Originally posted by shill

<snipped>
Are there photos of her bare wrists?

Nope, but theres this little thing called an Autopsy Report...and there is no mention of any abrasions whatsoever, on her wrists.

[Athena]

Originally posted by shill
I think the garrote was being pulled from the front and downward(I'm not going to explain) and to keep her head restrained and from moving in this direction, her hands would have to be held above and behind her head.

Shill in an interview with John Walsh who was consulted early on in the case, he makes a statement that JBR was cut down as if she had been suspended. When I pointed it out everyone seemed to think he misspoke but I am not sure about that at all. I think it may have been a slip of the tongue and something that was not released to the public. She didn't have to be tied tightly around the wrists either to accomplish this; just tight enough that her hands did not slip through the loops and she also did not have to be suspended high enough to cause marks on her wrists - just enough to make it difficult for her to fight back to render her hands useless. JMO

[Zoey]

Originally posted by Athena


Shill in an interview with John Walsh who was consulted early on in the case, he makes a statement that JBR was cut down as if she had been suspended. When I pointed it out everyone seemed to think he misspoke but I am not sure about that at all. I think it may have been a slip of the tongue and something that was not released to the public. She didn't have to be tied tightly around the wrists either to accomplish this; just tight enough that her hands did not slip through the loops and she also did not have to be suspended high enough to cause marks on her wrists - just enough to make it difficult for her to fight back to render her hands useless. JMO

Athena, I believe there is another article that claims she was cut down. I know I have read it somewhere else, not just the John Walsh version. I will try and locate the story, as I don't like to post something without the link to verify my information.

[thewhitewitch1]

Originally posted by Athena


Shill in an interview with John Walsh who was consulted early on in the case, he makes a statement that JBR was cut down as if she had been suspended. When I pointed it out everyone seemed to think he misspoke but I am not sure about that at all. I think it may have been a slip of the tongue and something that was not released to the public. She didn't have to be tied tightly around the wrists either to accomplish this; just tight enough that her hands did not slip through the loops and she also did not have to be suspended high enough to cause marks on her wrists - just enough to make it difficult for her to fight back to render her hands useless. JMO

John Walsh did not view the crime scene, nor did he view the body or attend the autopsy.
If the wrist ligature was around her sleeve, don't you think it would have slipped down to her wrist when she was suspended?
If John managed to get one of her hands free and the other ligature was so loose, why didn't he remove that one too? We only have his version of how tight the bindings were, also, since no one else saw them in their original state.
Now, if there is evidence that she was "cut down" by the cord having been cut in a certain place, or the knife that was used to cut it had fiber evidence attatched, well, that's a different story.
I am sure forensics can tell if a cord is slack or taut when cut too.
Anyway, there is no REAL evidence that she had been suspended. John Walsh saying that she was is like you or me saying that she was. Pure speculation. IMO

[Athena]

Originally posted by thewhitewitch1


John Walsh did not view the crime scene, nor did he view the body or attend the autopsy.
If the wrist ligature was around her sleeve, don't you think it would have slipped down to her wrist when she was suspended?
If John managed to get one of her hands free and the other ligature was so loose, why didn't he remove that one too? We only have his version of how tight the bindings were, also, since no one else saw them in their original state.
Now, if there is evidence that she was "cut down" by the cord having been cut in a certain place, or the knife that was used to cut it had fiber evidence attatched, well, that's a different story.
I am sure forensics can tell if a cord is slack or taut when cut too.
Anyway, there is no REAL evidence that she had been suspended. John Walsh saying that she was is like you or me saying that she was. Pure speculation. IMO

ALL of the so-called evidence pointing to the Ramseys is pure speculation and conjecture The cord was said to be cut and frayed.

Everything on this board is speculation, conjecture and theories (some totally outrageous).

John Walsh whether he attended the autopsy or not has just as much info if not more than any of us do. JMO

[shill]

Originally posted by thewhitewitch1


J
If the wrist ligature was around her sleeve, don't you think it would have slipped down to her wrist when she was suspended?
If John managed to get one of her hands free and the other ligature was so loose, why didn't he remove that one too? We only have his version of how tight the bindings were, also, since no one else saw them in their original state.
IMO

No, I don't think they would slip down because they were tight and the sleeve would move with them.
The other one wasn't that loose that John would relize it could be slipped off.
We have his testimony that they were tight, yes we do, so that proves they were tight.
Why would they stage them loose? There is no reason they would be loose.
John said they were tight and that is sworn testimony.
I hope you don't think people should side with your opinion over John's sworn testimony.

[thewhitewitch1]

Originally posted by Athena


ALL of the so-called evidence pointing to the Ramseys is pure speculation and conjecture The cord was said to be cut and frayed.

Everything on this board is speculation, conjecture and theories (some totally outrageous).

John Walsh whether he attended the autopsy or not has just as much info if not more than any of us do. JMO

Touche', Athena. All of the so-called evidence pointing to an intruder is pure speculation and conjecture too.
I've read that the cord was cut and frayed on one end, but is it consistant in a way that suggests she had been suspended? THAT is the question.
And, of course we all speculate and theorize. No arguement there!

[shill]

Originally posted by thewhitewitch1


Touche', Athena. All of the so-called evidence pointing to an intruder is pure speculation and conjecture too.
I've read that the cord was cut and frayed on one end, but is it consistant in a way that suggests she had been suspended? THAT is the question.
And, of course we all speculate and theorize. No arguement there!

The photos of the ligature shows it intact, no cut between the two wrist restraints. I don't think she was cut down, but John Walsh might have heard something that led him to say this.

I have offered an explanation for the ligature, the length between the wrists, and her arms over her head at death with one explanation that is possible.
Not several explanations for each thing.

"Her arms were restrained over her head"

[Coloradokares]

Originally posted by shill
No, I don't think they would slip down because they were tight and the sleeve would move with them.
The other one wasn't that loose that John would relize it could be slipped off.
We have his testimony that they were tight, yes we do, so that proves they were tight.
Why would they stage them loose? There is no reason they would be loose.
John said they were tight and that is sworn testimony.
I hope you don't think people should side with your opinion over John's sworn testimony.

Well excuse me.....but sworn testimony is the least of what RDI theorists would be question. Especially in light of inconsistencies and other issues....kind of hard to fathom that just because the testimony was sworn that, that in and of itself would persuade Maybe it was that the wrists were not highly abraised.

[shill]

Originally posted by Coloradokares


Well excuse me.....but sworn testimony is the least of what RDI theorists would be question. Especially in light of inconsistencies and other issues....kind of hard to fathom that just because the testimony was sworn that, that in and of itself would persuade Maybe it was that the wrists were not highly abraised.

No excuse!
Sworn testimony that the wrist cuffs were tight, which they would logically be because they're wrist cuffs. It would be illogical to stage wrist cuffs loosely. There is no good reason the wrist cuffs would be loose, IDI or RDI.
No one knows what damage the wrist cuffs would leave or has seen the damage.
Based soley on what they think the damage to the wrists should be and yet they do not know what it is, they disregard sworn testimony and logic.
And I am suspose to respect this opinion that is speculating on speculation?

[thewhitewitch1]

Originally posted by shill
No excuse!
Sworn testimony that the wrist cuffs were tight, which they would logically be because they're wrist cuffs. It would be illogical to stage wrist cuffs loosely. There is no good reason the wrist cuffs would be loose, IDI or RDI.
No one knows what damage the wrist cuffs would leave or has seen the damage.
Based soley on what they think the damage to the wrists should be and yet they do not know what it is, they disregard sworn testimony and logic.
And I am suspose to respect this opinion that is speculating on speculation?

What "sworn" testimony?? JR wasn't under oath when he made his statements. He wasn't in court.
You only have his word that the wrist bindings were tight. Some have asked why he would "unstage" his staging of the scene. Well, isn't it just possible that the wrists were tied loosely to begin with and, realizing that it looked staged, he took one off and said that he loosened the other? Logically, IF they were used to restrain her, yes, they would be tight because they were serving a purpose. If they were staged, they would NOT necessarily have to be tight. Again, we only have JRs word for it and why on earth would he volunteer the information that the bindings were loose? If you were trying to cover something, you'd tell someone what makes sense to make it point away from yourself. It isn't like he wanted the LE to think the crime was staged.

[Coloradokares]

Originally posted by shill
No excuse!
Sworn testimony that the wrist cuffs were tight, which they would logically be because they're wrist cuffs. It would be illogical to stage wrist cuffs loosely. There is no good reason the wrist cuffs would be loose, IDI or RDI.
No one knows what damage the wrist cuffs would leave or has seen the damage.
Based soley on what they think the damage to the wrists should be and yet they do not know what it is, they disregard sworn testimony and logic.
And I am suspose to respect this opinion that is speculating on speculation?

Your right of course!! Silly me I trusted coroners and police to know these things. I should have consulted the experts. Sexual Deviants who would be the only one to recognize or know these things. Darn never thought to do that. Also ... I don't think I know any.

[shill]

Originally posted by Coloradokares


Your right of course!! Silly me I trusted coroners and police to know these things. I should have consulted the experts. Sexual Deviants who would be the only one to recognize or know these things. Darn never thought to do that. Also ... I don't think I know any.

I didn't know the coroners and the police found the body, I thought John did.

Debating with you people is like debating with people who say there are UFOs because the government denies they exist.

It's pointless!