John Planning To Put JB Body In Suitcase, And Dump It In Lake Michigan????

[Ames]

This is a gruesome thought...What if John had planned on putting JB's body in the suitcase (that was near the window), and taking it on the trip to Michigan..weighing it down and dumping it into Lake Michigan...(remember...they had a vacation home there..and were planning on going there the next day). Just a thought...(IMO)

What is interesting about it is it starts out as an IDI theory, and now, like everything in the case, morphs into something that supports the opposite theory.

I think the blanket and book were in the suitcase because no one took them out after a previous trip. I don't think anyone was ever planning to put her in the suitcase.

But now that it supports an RDI theory, lets watch how fast the IDIs distance themselves from the idea.

[Ames]

Trying to multitask, and didn't make it back in time to edit...BUT..I wanted to add that if the body was inside of a weighted down suitcase, it would make it almost impossible for the body to ever be found.

[Ames]

Originally posted by WallyCleaver
What is interesting about it is it starts out as an IDI theory, and now, like everything in the case, morphs into something that supports the opposite theory.

I think the blanket and book were in the suitcase because no one took them out after a previous trip. I don't think anyone was ever planning to put her in the suitcase.

But now that it supports an RDI theory, lets watch how fast the IDIs distance themselves from the idea.

Yeah...you know...I had never before thought that anyone had ever planned on putting her in that suitcase...but, the more that I thought about it...I changed my mind. It COULD be possible...they did have a home on Lake Michigan that they were planning on going to that day. What if, at first, they had planned on still going on the trip...but, taking that suitcase with them with JB's body inside...and dumping it there in Lake Michigan. They may have AT FIRST was going to dump the body, come back to Boulder, and THEN call 911 and tell them about the ransom letter. But, for whatever reason...JB wouldn't fit, or they just were so much in a panic, that they changed their mind. Its just a THEORY...IMO

Originally posted by Ames


Yeah...you know...I had never before thought that anyone had ever planned on putting her in that suitcase...but, the more that I thought about it...I changed my mind. It COULD be possible...they did have a home on Lake Michigan that they were planning on going to that day. What if, at first, they had planned on still going on the trip...but, taking that suitcase with them with JB's body inside...and dumping it there in Lake Michigan. They may have AT FIRST was going to dump the body, come back to Boulder, and THEN call 911 and tell them about the ransom letter. But, for whatever reason...JB wouldn't fit, or they just were so much in a panic, that they changed their mind. Its just a THEORY...IMO

Pretty bold to fly with their daughter in the suitcase. What if the odor was noticed?

Also they couldn't drop the suitcase from the plane, as they had a pilot on board. JR wasn't flying it himself. They'd have had to take a boat far out into the lake and drop her. They couldn't do it anywhere near shore for fear of the suitcase washing up on shore. Even with additional weight it might was up if too close to shore.

I presume they had a boat, though I don't know that to be a fact. They'd look quite suspicious carrying a suitcase on board a boat.

[Ames]

Originally posted by WallyCleaver


Pretty bold to fly with their daughter in the suitcase. What if the odor was noticed?

Also they couldn't drop the suitcase from the plane, as they had a pilot on board. JR wasn't flying it himself. They'd have had to take a boat far out into the lake and drop her. They couldn't do it anywhere near shore for fear of the suitcase washing up on shore. Even with additional weight it might was up if too close to shore.

I presume they had a boat, though I don't know that to be a fact. They'd look quite suspicious carrying a suitcase on board a boat.

Well, nobody spotted Scott Peterson, carrying out Laci's body. They did have a boat, they could have done it during the night, and nobody would have seen. As far as the odor goes...that may have been a reason for them to change their mind about it. Although, I think that if they had of put her in a garbage bag, and sealed it off...and THEN put her in the suitcase, it would have eliminated the smell. I used to do this with stinky diapers...and it works!!! Anyway, its just a theory...and there are alot of different reasons that they could have changed their mind about it. I am just saying that in the beginning....it COULD have been their plan. IMO

[Athena]

Originally posted by WallyCleaver
What is interesting about it is it starts out as an IDI theory, and now, like everything in the case, morphs into something that supports the opposite theory.

I think the blanket and book were in the suitcase because no one took them out after a previous trip. I don't think anyone was ever planning to put her in the suitcase.

But now that it supports an RDI theory, lets watch how fast the IDIs distance themselves from the idea.

I agree with you re: the blanket and book having already been in the suitcase. How do you explain though that the blanket fibers were found on JBR?

[Coloradokares]

They had a private plane and pilot at their 24 hour a day disposal really. John could have flown but used a pilot since the cataracts were affecting visual issues. He was an avid sailor of a sail boats and owned of course his own. Remember their private plane bore Beths name on it. As far out as it sounded at first I had shiver go through me as they had the means to do this. Not that this is more than speculation or theory. Just saying they did have the means.

Originally posted by WallyCleaver


Pretty bold to fly with their daughter in the suitcase. What if the odor was noticed?

Also they couldn't drop the suitcase from the plane, as they had a pilot on board. JR wasn't flying it himself. They'd have had to take a boat far out into the lake and drop her. They couldn't do it anywhere near shore for fear of the suitcase washing up on shore. Even with additional weight it might was up if too close to shore.

I presume they had a boat, though I don't know that to be a fact. They'd look quite suspicious carrying a suitcase on board a boat.

[Ames]

Originally posted by Athena


I agree with you re: the blanket and book having already been in the suitcase. How do you explain though that the blanket fibers were found on JBR?

Yep...I think that SOMEONE could have put her in that suitcase (RDI theory, JOHN....IDI theory, intruder)....she didn't fit, so they took her out...IMO

[Ames]

Originally posted by Ames


Yeah...you know...I had never before thought that anyone had ever planned on putting her in that suitcase...but, the more that I thought about it...I changed my mind. It COULD be possible...they did have a home on Lake Michigan that they were planning on going to that day. What if, at first, they had planned on still going on the trip...but, taking that suitcase with them with JB's body inside...and dumping it there in Lake Michigan. They may have AT FIRST was going to dump the body, come back to Boulder, and THEN call 911 and tell them about the ransom letter. But, for whatever reason...JB wouldn't fit, or they just were so much in a panic, that they changed their mind. Its just a THEORY...IMO

If Burke didn't know about the crime...then...thats another reason for them to have changed their minds. How would they explain JB's absence? The Ramsey's could have even had an argument about whether to tell him or not....(that could explain why they had no interaction (according to their friends), after they called their friends over after finding the ransom note. One of them could have had the idea to put her in the suitcase, and dump her in Michigan...and the other one may have not wanted to, because then they would have had to let Burke in on it. Just my opinion.

Originally posted by Athena


I agree with you re: the blanket and book having already been in the suitcase. How do you explain though that the blanket fibers were found on JBR?

To use the favorite line of IDIs in answer - were they the exact same fibers, or fibers consistant with the blanket?

It could have been used earlier in the night, it might have been the spot on which she was molested. Putting it in the suitcase would have gotten it out of the way. It also plays into the notion of an intruder planning to take her out in the suitcase.

Originally posted by Coloradokares
They had a private plane and pilot at their 24 hour a day disposal really. John could have flown but used a pilot since the cataracts were affecting visual issues. He was an avid sailor of a sail boats and owned of course his own. Remember their private plane bore Beths name on it. As far out as it sounded at first I had shiver go through me as they had the means to do this. Not that this is more than speculation or theory. Just saying they did have the means.

That's the thing, would they want to risk the pilot finding out ? What if her odor were noticed (a real possibility on a small private plane) what if bodily fluids leaked?

Possibly it was an original plan, put aside when they realized it was too risky.

[Ames]

Originally posted by WallyCleaver


To use the favorite line of IDIs in answer - were they the exact same fibers, or fibers consistant with the blanket?

It could have been used earlier in the night, it might have been the spot on which she was molested. Putting it in the suitcase would have gotten it out of the way. It also plays into the notion of an intruder planning to take her out in the suitcase.

You have confused me (which is not hard to do). Are you RDI or IDI?

Originally posted by Ames


You have confused me (which is not hard to do). Are you RDI or IDI?

LOL!

I'm saying putting the blanket and Dr. Suess book in the suitcase could have been an element of staging. Look how many IDIs have proposed that the intruder planned to take her out in the suitcase.

As long as we're speculating, it could be FW didn't see JB's body in the wine cellar because at that time she was in the suitcase. When JR went down the basement alone he could have removed her, and placed her where she could be found. There would be no reasonable explanation for someone checking to see if she was in the suitcase.

I have to hand it to you Ames, you've turned one of the IDI's favorite theories into an RDI theory.

[Ames]

Originally posted by WallyCleaver


<snipped>
Possibly it was an original plan, put aside when they realized it was too risky.

Yeah, thats what I am thinking. It would have been the perfect way to get rid of the body, though. IMO But, Burke would have had to either have known about it in the beginning, or had to have been told about it later, for that scenerio to have worked. Because, he would have wondered where his sister was...when they left for Michigan. I am sure that the thought had crossed their mind in the beginning, though. Thats why that suitcase was there, IMO. Why was there only ONE suitcase? If the suitcases were stored there, then there should have been more than that one. Wonder where the rest of their luggage was kept? IMO

Originally posted by Ames


Yeah, thats what I am thinking. It would have been the perfect way to get rid of the body, though. IMO But, Burke would have had to either have known about it in the beginning, or had to have been told about it later, for that scenerio to have worked. Because, he would have wondered where his sister was...when they left for Michigan. I am sure that the thought had crossed their mind in the beginning, though. Thats why that suitcase was there...why was it only ONE suitcase. If the suitcases were stored there, then there should have been more than that one. Wonder where the rest of their luggage was kept? IMO

They could have just put her disappearance down to kidnapping. No reason to let Burke in on it.

It makes sense that they were originally trying to figure some way to dump the body somewhere. The Ransom note just doesn't fit with the body in the house. It doesn't fit any intruder theory, but it does fit with the Rs originally planning to dump her.

Does anyone know the dimensions of the suitcase?

From the pics I'd never immagine stuffing a 6 year old in it.

[Ames]

Originally posted by WallyCleaver


LOL!

I'm saying putting the blanket and Dr. Suess book in the suitcase could have been an element of staging. Look how many IDIs have proposed that the intruder planned to take her out in the suitcase.

As long as we're speculating, it could be FW didn't see JB's body in the wine cellar because at that time she was in the suitcase. When JR went down the basement alone he could have removed her, and placed her where she could be found. There would be no reasonable explanation for someone checking to see if she was in the suitcase.

I have to hand it to you Ames, you've turned one of the IDI's favorite theories into an RDI theory.

WOW...I didn't even THINK of that..yeah, maybe she was IN the suitcase in the beginning...and thats why Fleet didn't see her. When John went missing..he was down there taking her out and placing her on the floor. Maybe he had second thoughts about taking her on that trip to Michigan and dumping her..because of the reasons that we listed...the odor...the pilot noticing....Burke having to find out, etc. SOOOO...he takes her out of the suitcase and places her on the floor. Brilliant deduction my dear Wally!!! IMO

[Ames]

Originally posted by WallyCleaver


They could have just put her disappearance down to kidnapping. No reason to let Burke in on it.

It makes sense that they were originally trying to figure some way to dump the body somewhere. The Ransom note just doesn't fit with the body in the house. It doesn't fit any intruder theory, but it does fit with the Rs originally planning to dump her.

They would have had to let Burke in on it..if they were planning to take her to Michigan to dump her, though. Because if they had of left on the trip for Michigan, without JB....Burke would have wondered where his sister was...unless he knew that she was in the suitcase. They may have even planned on dumping her somewhere in Colorado...after deciding that taking the body to Michigan wouldn't work. IMO

Originally posted by Ames


WOW...I didn't even THINK of that..yeah, maybe she was IN the suitcase in the beginning...and thats why Fleet didn't see her. When John went missing..he was down there taking her out and placing her on the floor. Maybe he had second thoughts about taking her on that trip to Michigan and dumping her..because of the reasons that we listed...the odor...the pilot noticing....Burke having to find out, etc. SOOOO...he takes her out of the suitcase and places her on the floor. Brilliant deduction my dear Wally!!! IMO

I'm not making this part of my theory of the case - just throwing out ideas here. If she were in the suitcase it would explain why FW didn't see her, and what JR was doing down there all that time.

[Ames]

Originally posted by WallyCleaver


I'm not making this part of my theory of the case - just throwing out ideas here. If she were in the suitcase it would explain why FW didn't see her, and what JR was doing down there all that time.

Excellent IDEA...then. I agree..her body being in the suitcase would explain why FW didn't see her, and explain what J was doing down there. I know its just speculation...but...I think it works. IMO

Originally posted by Ames


They would have had to let Burke in on it..if they were planning to take her to Michigan to dump her, though. Because if they had of left on the trip for Michigan, without JB....Burke would have wondered where his sister was...unless he knew that she was in the suitcase. They may have even planned on dumping her somewhere in Colorado...after deciding that taking the body to Michigan wouldn't work. IMO

What I'm saying is they would have had to go ahead with the kidnapping farce anyway. Not only would Burke be asking where JB was - so would a lot of adults. They would have needed to maintain the kidnapping fiction as an answer and that answer would have served just as well for Burke.

It does make sense that there was initially a plan to dispose of the body "hence" the ransom note. The kidnapping was needed to explain her disappearance.

[Athena]

Originally posted by WallyCleaver


To use the favorite line of IDIs in answer - were they the exact same fibers, or fibers consistant with the blanket?

It could have been used earlier in the night, it might have been the spot on which she was molested. Putting it in the suitcase would have gotten it out of the way. It also plays into the notion of an intruder planning to take her out in the suitcase.

I am really not convinced that those red fibers were from Patsy's jacket. I've posted the interview before so not posting again. But her jacket was red, black and gray checked. The fibers on the duct tape were first reported as being brown and then all of a sudden became red. The fibers in JBR's crotch area were originally reported as dark or blue fibers and then all of a sudden became black. Sorry but that is way to suspicous of someone fishing trying to make the evidence fit what they believed to be the crime and unfortunately not the first time it's ever been done.

In addition to the fibers on the duct tape both JR and FW touched that duct tape. Both were in the basement prior to JBR's body being found. It could have been secondary transfer. When the body was moved -- no telling where fibers could have ended up. One of the sad points in this case was that the crime scene was totally contaminated. If the Ramseys committed this crime the BPD messed this case up and then in an attempt to recover from their f-up; they just made it worse.

What about the brown fibers and animal hairs found and not sourced? They were looking for brown cotton gloves -- they must have had a reason. JMO

PS: I have always believed OJ got away with murder because the LA Police tried to frame a guilty man and f'd up. JMO

[nuisanceposter]

The state of the body in rigor mortis tells you JonBenet wasn't in the suitcase, guys, or else she'd have been in a different pose. Whenever she had been before JR found her, she had to have been laid out supine.

[Athena]

Originally posted by nuisanceposter
The state of the body in rigor mortis tells you JonBenet wasn't in the suitcase, guys, or else she'd have been in a different pose. Whenever she had been before JR found her, she had to have been laid out supine.

Not true IMO. When they tried to put her in it she didn't fit and just didn't leave her or realized they could get in but couldn't get out with the suitcase with her body. It takes time for rigor mortis to set in and does not occur immediately. jmo

[nuisanceposter]

Originally posted by Athena


Not true IMO. When they tried to put her in it she didn't fit and just didn't leave her or realized they could get in but couldn't get out with the suitcase with her body. It takes time for rigor mortis to set in and does not occur immediately. jmo

There's no proof she was ever in the suitcase at all. Fibers that may have been from the duvet cover in the suitcase possibly being on JonBenet does not equal her having been in the suitcase and taken out. I think saying she had been in the suitcase (or they tried to put her in it) without more concrete proof is pushing it.

When do you think she was killed? When do you think she entered a state of rigor mortis? What time of day do you think she ended up frozen in that pose? I'm pretty sure that if she had been in that suitcase when FW looked in the room and JR moved her out of it at 10 a.m., then she would have been in rigor mortis in the fetal position.

I'll ask again - how do we know when the suitcase was put there? What proof is there that it was moved to where it was found on 12/26? How do we know that suitcase hadn't been sitting there for a good month or so before it was found where it was while searching for JonBenet?

[Ames]

Originally posted by WallyCleaver


What I'm saying is they would have had to go ahead with the kidnapping farce anyway. Not only would Burke be asking where JB was - so would a lot of adults. They would have needed to maintain the kidnapping fiction as an answer and that answer would have served just as well for Burke.

It does make sense that there was initially a plan to dispose of the body "hence" the ransom note. The kidnapping was needed to explain her disappearance.

I don't think that you get what I am saying...yes, I know that they had to make it look like a kidnapping...but, I am saying that IF John and Patsy had intended to take the suitcase with JB body in it to MICHIGAN...while on their "family vacation", then Burke would have had to have been giving a reason as to why JB wasn't with them. They couldn't have told him that she had been kidnapped...and that they had planned on going to Michigan anyway....even though she had been kidnapped. They would have had to make something up, or told him the truth...went to Michigan, dumped the body...came back to Colorado and then called 911 to tell about the ransom note that they had "found". BUT...if they had planned on disposing of the body in COLORADO..then Burke wouldn't have had to have known anything..except that it was a "kidnapping". IMO

[Ames]

Originally posted by nuisanceposter


There's no proof she was ever in the suitcase at all. Fibers that may have been from the duvet cover in the suitcase possibly being on JonBenet does not equal her having been in the suitcase and taken out. I think saying she had been in the suitcase (or they tried to put her in it) without more concrete proof is pushing it.

When do you think she was killed? When do you think she entered a state of rigor mortis? What time of day do you think she ended up frozen in that pose? I'm pretty sure that if she had been in that suitcase when FW looked in the room and JR moved her out of it at 10 a.m., then she would have been in rigor mortis in the fetal position.

I'll ask again - how do we know when the suitcase was put there? What proof is there that it was moved to where it was found on 12/26? How do we know that suitcase hadn't been sitting there for a good month or so before it was found where it was while searching for JonBenet?

This was just speculation of course. I would be interested to know where the rest of the luggage was kept. We always keep ours together, as I would imagine that everybody usually does. I can't imagine why that ONE suitcase would be in that room. Where was the REST of their luggage?...You know that they had to have more than ONE piece of luggage...with the four of them, and with all of Patsy and JB's clothes. IMO

Originally posted by Ames


I don't think that you get what I am saying...yes, I know that they had to make it look like a kidnapping...but, I am saying that IF John and Patsy had intended to take the suitcase with JB body in it to MICHIGAN...while on their "family vacation", then Burke would have had to have been giving a reason as to why JB wasn't with them.

Because she was kidnapped.

They couldn't have told him that she had been kidnapped...and that they had planned on going to Michigan anyway....even though she had been kidnapped. They would have had to make something up, or told him the truth...went to Michigan, dumped the body...came back to Colorado and then called 911 to tell about the ransom note that they had "found". BUT...if they had planned on disposing of the body in COLORADO..then Burke wouldn't have had to have known anything..except that it was a "kidnapping". IMO

They wouldn't have gone to MI, and then come back to call 911. They'd have had to go through the kidnapping farce in CO first.

Originally posted by nuisanceposter


There's no proof she was ever in the suitcase at all. Fibers that may have been from the duvet cover in the suitcase possibly being on JonBenet does not equal her having been in the suitcase and taken out. I think saying she had been in the suitcase (or they tried to put her in it) without more concrete proof is pushing it.

When do you think she was killed? When do you think she entered a state of rigor mortis? What time of day do you think she ended up frozen in that pose? I'm pretty sure that if she had been in that suitcase when FW looked in the room and JR moved her out of it at 10 a.m., then she would have been in rigor mortis in the fetal position.

I'll ask again - how do we know when the suitcase was put there? What proof is there that it was moved to where it was found on 12/26? How do we know that suitcase hadn't been sitting there for a good month or so before it was found where it was while searching for JonBenet?

No, we don't know she was in the suitcase. It's just speculation. If I had to guess, I'd say no.

Since time of death isn't determined with any precission, neither is the onset of rigormortis.

We don't know when the suitcase was put there.

[Ames]

Originally posted by WallyCleaver


Because she was kidnapped.



They wouldn't have gone to MI, and then come back to call 911. They'd have had to go through the kidnapping farce in CO first.

I know....but, all I am saying is that it would have been a little suspicious, IF they had of went through the kidnapping farce in CO first....and THEN headed to Michigan. People would have said..."Gee..their child was just kidnapped..and they went ahead with their plans for a family vacation, anyway....how odd". So, you are saying that they would have gone through the kidnapping farce FIRST in CO....and THEN went on to Michigan to dispose of the body? I am on your side...I am just trying to figure out what you meant. IMO

Originally posted by Ames


WOW...I didn't even THINK of that..yeah, maybe she was IN the suitcase in the beginning...and thats why Fleet didn't see her. When John went missing..he was down there taking her out and placing her on the floor. Maybe he had second thoughts about taking her on that trip to Michigan and dumping her..because of the reasons that we listed...the odor...the pilot noticing....Burke having to find out, etc. SOOOO...he takes her out of the suitcase and places her on the floor. Brilliant deduction my dear Wally!!! IMO

:lol: I guess you are forgetting rigor mortis huh? Remember her body was found stretched out with arms above her head? It wasn't a trunk, it was a suitcase. Don't you think the pilot would have "noticed" JonBenet was not with the family as well? Please don't give up your day job to become a detective, you would starve.

[Ames]

Originally posted by breezy1234



:lol: I guess you are forgetting rigor mortis huh? Remember her body was found stretched out with arms above her head? It wasn't a trunk, it was a suitcase. Don't you think the pilot would have "noticed" JonBenet was not with the family as well? Please don't give up your day job to become a detective, you would starve.

Okay, first of all...you with your laughing smiley...the death of a little girl is FUNNY to you??? Well, it isn't to me. Second of all...I SAID that that scenerio is JUST a SPECULATION...do you know what that word means? Obviously not! John COULD have thought, in the beginning, that he could pull it off. He COULD have put her in the suitcase, and then taken her out, after having second thoughts.... before Fleet even came over to the house. Fleet not seeing her, because she was in the suitcase, the first time that he looked into the room, was NOT my speculation...it was someone elses. And if you are trying to act like a polite poster that doesn't use hateful comments....then don't quit YOUR day job. IMO

[Athena]

Originally posted by nuisanceposter


There's no proof she was ever in the suitcase at all. Fibers that may have been from the duvet cover in the suitcase possibly being on JonBenet does not equal her having been in the suitcase and taken out. I think saying she had been in the suitcase (or they tried to put her in it) without more concrete proof is pushing it.

When do you think she was killed? When do you think she entered a state of rigor mortis? What time of day do you think she ended up frozen in that pose? I'm pretty sure that if she had been in that suitcase when FW looked in the room and JR moved her out of it at 10 a.m., then she would have been in rigor mortis in the fetal position.

I'll ask again - how do we know when the suitcase was put there? What proof is there that it was moved to where it was found on 12/26? How do we know that suitcase hadn't been sitting there for a good month or so before it was found where it was while searching for JonBenet?

Whoa - sorry nuisance. Didn't mean to be misleading. Putting JBR in the suitcase is purely speculation. When I talked about her being placed in the suitcase I meant it is possible someone tried to put her in there and she wouldn't fit or they couldn't figure a way to get her out so they removed her thus the fibers from the blanket -- not leave her in there for any length of time. I certainly did not mean to imply that she had been in there for longer than a few minutes and long before rigor mortis would have set in.

Re: when the suitcase was put there. According to the interview transcript, JR said that the suitcase belonged to his ex-wife and one of the older kids had brought it in on one of his visits and left in a hall upstairs and months before JR claims he took it downstairs and put it in the hall area.

12 And the suitcase was unusual. That shouldn't have

13 been there. I took that suitcase downstairs, I

14 remember. But I sure wouldn't have taken it all

15 the way back there and put it against the window.

16 LOU SMIT: Okay. Let's talk about suitcases a

17 little bit as long as your talking about it now.

18 It was right up against the wall?

19 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah.

20 LOU SMIT: And you said you had taken that

21 down. When did you?

22 JOHN RAMSEY: Months before, probably, months

23 before, two months before. It was one of these big

24 Samsonite suitcases that, I don't know, the kids

25 used it to bring some clothes home, the older

0155

1 kids. Sometimes it ended up at our house. I don't

2 think it was our suitcase. It seemed to belong to

3 Cindy Johnson, my ex-wife.

4 But it was here for a while. It was up in the

5 laundry room. I remember taking it downstairs to

6 clean up. And I think I just kind of sat it in

7 this room here.

8 LOU SMIT: That would be in that hall?

9 JOHN RAMSEY: Just in the landing in the hall

10 area.

http://www.jonbenetindexguide.com/19...w-Complete.htm

[Ames]

Originally posted by breezy1234




<snipped>
Don't you think the pilot would have "noticed" JonBenet was not with the family as well? Please don't give up your day job to become a detective, you would starve.

As I have said BEFORE...that John putting her in the suitcase is only speculation. He could have tried to put her in, and she didn't fit....so, he decided that it wasn't quite such a good idea afterall. As far as the pilot goes..and him noticing that JB was not with them...he may have been thinking of trying to pilot the plane himself....he had a pilots license...but BAD eyesight....thats the reason that he hired the other pilot in the first place. But, he may have thought that he could of piloted that plane, if it meant being able to dispose of JB's body, in Lake Michigan. Maybe his eyesight wasn't SO bad that he couldn't at least try to pilot the plane, he may have thought that he could do it. THIS IS PURELY SPECULATION! IMO

Originally posted by Ames


As I have said BEFORE...that John putting her in the suitcase is only speculation. He could have tried to put her in, and she didn't fit....so, he decided that it wasn't quite such a good idea afterall. As far as the pilot goes..and him noticing that JB was not with them...he may have been thinking of trying to pilot the plane himself....he had a pilots license...but BAD eyesight....thats the reason that he hired the other pilot in the first place. But, he may have thought that he could of piloted that plane, if it meant being able to dispose of JB's body, in Lake Michigan. Maybe his eyesight wasn't SO bad that he couldn't at least try to pilot the plane, he may have thought that he could do it. THIS IS PURELY SPECULATION! IMO

No I do NOT think the murder of a young child is funny but I sure do think the silly speculation by you IS funny. Yes I realize it is speculation but why on earth waste time on such silly thoughts? Like I said many times here. Could haves, maybes and possiblities are a waste of time and do nothing beside victimize the victims again. These people lost a very young daughter in the worst posssible way and many of you here are "speculating" with thoughts that make no sense IMO. Put yourself in their shoes and ask yourself how you would feel if people were "speculating" about YOU putting your daughter in a suitcase and dumping her in Lake Michigan after killing her based on NO evidence.

Originally posted by Ames


I know....but, all I am saying is that it would have been a little suspicious, IF they had of went through the kidnapping farce in CO first....and THEN headed to Michigan. People would have said..."Gee..their child was just kidnapped..and they went ahead with their plans for a family vacation, anyway....how odd". So, you are saying that they would have gone through the kidnapping farce FIRST in CO....and THEN went on to Michigan to dispose of the body? I am on your side...I am just trying to figure out what you meant. IMO

Yes, that's what I'm saying. If it was ever part of the plan to put her in the suitcase and take her to dump in lake MI, they'd pretty much have to go through the kidnapping farce in CO first.

JR was trying to arrange a flight to Atlanta on the 26th, so he might have -at some point during the night- thought of flying to MI after calling the police and waiting for the never to come ransom call. I'm not sure the R's realized at first that the police were going to hang around all day.

It would have looked worse to go to MI, then come back w/o JB. They could lie for a while and say she was staying with relatives in MI, but that will only work for so long.

Of course they may have thought of taking the rasnom note to MI too, and staging the whole kidnapping there. They might have realized that it was risky to carry the body in the plane, and that might have forced a change in plan.

It's useful to speculate beause it gets us looking at angles we weren't looking at before. Even when the speculation runs into logical problems, it's still a useful exercise - we see what could or couldn't (likely or unlikely) happen.

nuisanceposter makes a good point about rigor mortis. But because we don't know the time of death, we really don't know the onset of rigor mortis.

One thing your theory gets us thinking about is what plans the Rs might have had for getting rid of the body. If you recall docg's theory, he says JR was planning to dump it when he went to "deliver" the ransom. He thinks PR was ignorant of the killing and cover up, and it was a fluke that the police were called. That may or may not be the case, but it makes sense that if they wrote a fake RN they were planing to dump the body.

[MyrDawn]

Originally posted by Ames



Yep...I think that SOMEONE could have put her in that suitcase (RDI theory, JOHN....IDI theory, intruder)....she didn't fit, so they took her out...IMO

That's what I think, too...in my case, the intruder.

MOO

[MyrDawn]

Originally posted by Ames


WOW...I didn't even THINK of that..yeah, maybe she was IN the suitcase in the beginning...and thats why Fleet didn't see her. When John went missing..he was down there taking her out and placing her on the floor. Maybe he had second thoughts about taking her on that trip to Michigan and dumping her..because of the reasons that we listed...the odor...the pilot noticing....Burke having to find out, etc. SOOOO...he takes her out of the suitcase and places her on the floor. Brilliant deduction my dear Wally!!! IMO

Fleet surely would have wondered about the heaviness of the suitcase when he moved it, and surely mentioned it when he came back upstairs, if JonBenet's 45 pound body was inside.

And, I don't think John would have taken her body out of the suitcase and moved it to the wine cellar with all those people, including the police in the house. He'd have had to walk right past the basement stairs to get her there. Why wouldn't he have just left her body in the suitcase and wait until every left to move it?

MOO

[Ames]

Originally posted by breezy1234


No I do NOT think the murder of a young child is funny but I sure do think the silly speculation by you IS funny. Yes I realize it is speculation but why on earth waste time on such silly thoughts? Like I said many times here. Could haves, maybes and possiblities are a waste of time and do nothing beside victimize the victims again. These people lost a very young daughter in the worst posssible way and many of you here are "speculating" with thoughts that make no sense IMO. Put yourself in their shoes and ask yourself how you would feel if people were "speculating" about YOU putting your daughter in a suitcase and dumping her in Lake Michigan after killing her based on NO evidence.

WHATEVER...I have just as much right to my opinion as YOU do. If you don't like what I have to say...then stay off of my THREAD!!!