Possible Murderer Profiles

[LadyFisher]

This perp was an angry impulsive young man...his family member had been hurt by John Ramsey...he personally couldn't stand John..he hated John's quiet controlled demeanor...who did John think he is...look at those Ramseys, how they entertain...how they traveled..and apparently had no worries in the world...oh, yes, he knew about Patsy's bout with cancer, but it even appeared to him they could control that situation...his life, on the otherhand wasn't going so well...his family was in debt up to their eyeballs and concerned how they would pay their bills...he had always gotten everything he wanted throughout his young life...and he was entitled to it..he had been in trouble with LE before, but nothing of any major consequence...he was caught as a teen doing drugs and was sent away for awhile either to a juvenile detention center or something equivalent....people liked his intelligent humor, he could spellbound some folks with his storytelling...but he still didn't have a job, and didn't really want one....things weren't looking too good for him...his parents just told him he would have to get a real job, they couldn't support him any longer...he was furious...he went back to his apartment he lived in alone or with a girlfriend...stewed about his situation...he would get even with John Ramsey...he would kill his daughter!.....................ok, I'm not done yet...but that's where I'm at with this perp....don't laugh too hard, Wally this is really the way I see this perp!........anyone else?

[docg]

Yes, this looks pretty close to the type of intruder constructed by the author of the "ransom note." Not someone out to kill JonBenet, however, but someone out to kidnap her -- and get the symbolically significant amount of $118,000 from John. As revenge by someone who hated John Ramsey, someone who either knew about his bonus or believed John owed him that amount.

We know, however, that there could not have been such an intruder. For one thing, there was no kidnapping, the body was found in the house. For another, no one with a connection to John Ramsey would have dared leave a hand printed note that could identify him. Someone out to "get" John by kidnapping his daughter would have had no reason to either molest her sexually or kill her so brutally. And if there had been a kidnapping gone wrong, there would have been no note at all -- why leave a possibly incriminating note for no reason?

There were also no signs of a breakin. Contrary to what John attempted to suggest later, he first reported to the police that he'd checked all the doors and found them locked. The police double checked -- and found no sign of forced entry anywhere -- including the basment window.

Also, there are signs of insider staging at that same window. And it seems clear that John and Patsy both lied about aspects of the case. Parts of their story either don't add up or are simply incredible -- and they have contradicted one another.

Bottom line: we can NOT take the note at face value since it is so clearly intended to deceive. Look straight at the person it points directly away from and you'll have your killer.

[MissOtisRegrets]

Originally posted by docg
And if there had been a kidnapping gone wrong, there would have been no note at all -- why leave a possibly incriminating note for no reason?

Why would John/Patsy take the unnecessary chance of writing a 3 page fake ransom note, when they knew all the time that the body was still in the house and their handwriting would be the first checked for similarities?


There were also no signs of a breakin. Contrary to what John attempted to suggest later, he first reported to the police that he'd checked all the doors and found them locked. The police double checked -- and found no sign of forced entry anywhere -- including the basment window.

The purpose for breaking the window in the first place had been to gain access through a locked window from the outside. The still broken window provided that same opportunity on Dec. 25th whether the window was locked or not. The fact that it was broken was not visible from the outside, owing to the grate.

[LadyFisher]

Originally posted by docg
Yes, this looks pretty close to the type of intruder constructed by the author of the "ransom note." Not someone out to kill JonBenet, however, but someone out to kidnap her -- and get the symbolically significant amount of $118,000 from John. As revenge by someone who hated John Ramsey, someone who either knew about his bonus or believed John owed him that amount.

We know, however, that there could not have been such an intruder. For one thing, there was no kidnapping, the body was found in the house. For another, no one with a connection to John Ramsey would have dared leave a hand printed note that could identify him. Someone out to "get" John by kidnapping his daughter would have had no reason to either molest her sexually or kill her so brutally. And if there had been a kidnapping gone wrong, there would have been no note at all -- why leave a possibly incriminating note for no reason?

There were also no signs of a breakin. Contrary to what John attempted to suggest later, he first reported to the police that he'd checked all the doors and found them locked. The police double checked -- and found no sign of forced entry anywhere -- including the basment window.

Also, there are signs of insider staging at that same window. And it seems clear that John and Patsy both lied about aspects of the case. Parts of their story either don't add up or are simply incredible -- and they have contradicted one another.

Bottom line: we can NOT take the note at face value since it is so clearly intended to deceive. Look straight at the person it points directly away from and you'll have your killer.

I have to take the note at face value, Doc.....I realize John is an intelligent man...but, I don't think he's quite that intelligent...this note reeks of a psychopathic young offender! imho

[MissOtisRegrets]

I think the perp was fairly young and highly intelligent. I think he was already a petty criminal. I think he had been in the basement since the window was broken and noticed it. I think he went through John's desk and saw the $118K deferred payment on the paystub. I think he was in the position of having to address the Ramseys as "Mr. and Mrs." to their face either because of age or because of position. I don't think he was in the first line of suspects or the ransom note wouldn't have been handwritten. I think he was fascinated with crime and with bondage and control. I think he was in his comfort zone when writing.

Was the basement painted after the window was broken? Were the painters given a key? Were they left alone in the house? Was the upstairs painted, as well? (All of my jewelry was stolen by the people who painted my house. This happens.) Were they checked out?

[LadyFisher]

Originally posted by MissOtisRegrets
I think the perp was fairly young and highly intelligent. I think he was already a petty criminal. I think he had been in the basement since the window was broken and noticed it. I think he went through John's desk and saw the $118K deferred payment on the paystub. I think he was in the position of having to address the Ramseys as "Mr. and Mrs." to their face either because of age or because of position. I don't think he was in the first line of suspects or the ransom note wouldn't have been handwritten. I think he was fascinated with crime and with bondage and control. I think he was in his comfort zone when writing.

Was the basement painted after the window was broken? Were the painters given a key? Were they left alone in the house? Was the upstairs painted, as well? (All of my jewelry was stolen by the people who painted my house. This happens.) Were they checked out?

I agree, MissO, he was in his comfort zone....he was fascinated with bondage...I would like to know, too, if these folks were checked out! I think you could be onto something here...this perp had been in their home often...I think he felt like John was condescending to him, too! Sorry to hear all your jewelry was stolen! That's a bummer!

Originally posted by MissOtisRegrets


Why would John/Patsy take the unnecessary chance of writing a 3 page fake ransom note, when they knew all the time that the body was still in the house and their handwriting would be the first checked for similarities?

It was very necessary. They had a dead child to explain.

I think they made a decission early on not to dispose of the body. It might have been better had they dispossed of her and written a short, believable, ransom note. But their decission was to stage a psycho sex killing.

[Louisadelmar]

Originally posted by MissOtisRegrets
I think the perp was fairly young and highly intelligent. I think he was already a petty criminal. I think he had been in the basement since the window was broken and noticed it. I think he went through John's desk and saw the $118K deferred payment on the paystub. I think he was in the position of having to address the Ramseys as "Mr. and Mrs." to their face either because of age or because of position. I don't think he was in the first line of suspects or the ransom note wouldn't have been handwritten. I think he was fascinated with crime and with bondage and control. I think he was in his comfort zone when writing.

Was the basement painted after the window was broken? Were the painters given a key? Were they left alone in the house? Was the upstairs painted, as well? (All of my jewelry was stolen by the people who painted my house. This happens.) Were they checked out?

I've always wondered how carefully the painters were checked. There was the flood caused by one of them and the Ramseys were upset with the damage that happened from that while they were away. I read somewhere it was settled without going to court.


22 JOHN RAMSEY: We took the screens off when we
23 painted the house and he would have cleaned the
24 windows after the paint was done.
25 LOU SMIT: When was the painting done?
0072
1 JOHN RAMSEY: Oh, it was finished just before
2 that Boulder Home Tour, the Historic Home Tour,
3 which I think was in '94. And the painting went on
4 for years. Dominic thought the painter was -- well
5 she thought he was --
6 LOU SMIT: And who was the painter?
7 JOHN RAMSEY: Jay Pedopiece. The reason
8 I remember is, when it was over with, he went into
9 the house just to finish up some last little
10 touches. We were going to be out of town. Patsy
11 told him please close the windows when you leave.
12 And he left the windows open in my bedroom and
13 bathroom. The wind blew hard, blew open the
14 shutters which turned on the faucet and flooded
15 the whole house. About two weeks before this home
16 tour. (INAUDIBLE) coming out the garage doors and
17 I said, (What in the world is that.Þ (INAUDIBLE).
18 So Patsy went crazy trying to put that back
19 together in two weeks.

[MissOtisRegrets]

Originally posted by LadyFisher
I agree, MissO, he was in his comfort zone....he was fascinated with bondage...I would like to know, too, if these folks were checked out! I think you could be onto something here...this perp had been in their home often...I think he felt like John was condescending to him, too! Sorry to hear all your jewelry was stolen! That's a bummer!

A real bummer! But, things like this happen. My next door neighbors had a man repairing their roof. He had access to the house and unlatched the dog door before leaving one afternoon. Came back at night while they were out and pushed his young son through the dog door. My neighbors came home to find their stereo, tv, etc. gone.

A friend of mine's parents, who lived a block from me, were both murdered by the man who worked in their yard. He then stole her wedding ring, $83.00, and their car. For drugs.

I know that parents do kill their children all the time. By beatings, drownings, etc. But not by garrotte (not one case on file with the FBI). And completely out of the blue! And to then stage an abandoned kidnapping with their own pen, paper, and three pages of script to implicate themselves! It just doesn't fit or make sense imo. The Ramseys were wealthy. Their house was not well-protected at all and backed onto an alley where transients hung out and JonBenet and Burke both rode their bikes.

[LadyFisher]

Originally posted by Louisadelmar


I've always wondered how carefully the painters were checked. There was the flood caused by one of them and the Ramseys were upset with the damage that happened from that while they were away. I read somewhere it was settled without going to court.


22 JOHN RAMSEY: We took the screens off when we
23 painted the house and he would have cleaned the
24 windows after the paint was done.
25 LOU SMIT: When was the painting done?
0072
1 JOHN RAMSEY: Oh, it was finished just before
2 that Boulder Home Tour, the Historic Home Tour,
3 which I think was in '94. And the painting went on
4 for years. Dominic thought the painter was -- well
5 she thought he was --
6 LOU SMIT: And who was the painter?
7 JOHN RAMSEY: Jay Pedopiece. The reason
8 I remember is, when it was over with, he went into
9 the house just to finish up some last little
10 touches. We were going to be out of town. Patsy
11 told him please close the windows when you leave.
12 And he left the windows open in my bedroom and
13 bathroom. The wind blew hard, blew open the
14 shutters which turned on the faucet and flooded
15 the whole house. About two weeks before this home
16 tour. (INAUDIBLE) coming out the garage doors and
17 I said, (What in the world is that.Þ (INAUDIBLE).
18 So Patsy went crazy trying to put that back
19 together in two weeks.

So the painter had to settled with John...I would love to know how much he had to pay? He could have been very angry over this situation! imho

Originally posted by LadyFisher
This perp was an angry impulsive young man...his family member had been hurt by John Ramsey...he personally couldn't stand John..he hated John's quiet controlled demeanor...who did John think he is...look at those Ramseys, how they entertain...how they traveled..and apparently had no worries in the world...oh, yes, he knew about Patsy's bout with cancer, but it even appeared to him they could control that situation...his life, on the otherhand wasn't going so well...his family was in debt up to their eyeballs and concerned how they would pay their bills...he had always gotten everything he wanted throughout his young life...and he was entitled to it..he had been in trouble with LE before, but nothing of any major consequence...he was caught as a teen doing drugs and was sent away for awhile either to a juvenile detention center or something equivalent....people liked his intelligent humor, he could spellbound some folks with his storytelling...but he still didn't have a job, and didn't really want one....things weren't looking too good for him...his parents just told him he would have to get a real job, they couldn't support him any longer...he was furious...he went back to his apartment he lived in alone or with a girlfriend...stewed about his situation...he would get even with John Ramsey...he would kill his daughter!.....................ok, I'm not done yet...but that's where I'm at with this perp....don't laugh too hard, Wally this is really the way I see this perp!........anyone else?

Hmmm,

I see him as an Englishman with a penchant for nudist magazines. He lived with his mother in their London flat until he moved to the US to take a job working for a company that makes shoe lace aglets.

He's 6'4", was 36 years old at the time of the murder, and wears an eye patch on his left eye- to cover for the fact that he has one blue and one brown eye. He has a scar on his left cheek, the result of a boyhood archery accident.

He's addicted to gins and tonic and in fact only broke into the Ramsey's home because he figured they had a nicely equipped bar. When he discovered the Ramseys were light drinkers, and the best gin they had was Beefeater, he became enraged and planned to kidnap JB and hold her until the R's agreed to buy Tanqueray.

While waiting for the R's to return he had time to watch a few movies - specifically "Dirty Harry", "Ransom", and "Speed".

After watching the films, he wandered aimlesly through the house and happened upon a check stub showing the amount of JR's bonus. This caused him to tear up and eat the original ransom note which only demanded Tanqueray gin, and replace it with the one we are familiar with. He reasoned JR wouldn't miss 118K as it was bonus money, and that amount would keep him in Tanqueray for quite some time.

As the night wore on, he thought about his nudist magazines and became very aroused. When at last he could come out from under JB's bed and grab her, he was too aroused to go through with his kidnapping plan. He left the ransom note on the stairs, hoping he could regain his composure and follow through with his plan. But the blood flow to his brain had been diverted, and all he could think of was gratification. He took her to the basement and molested her, and then, realizing he didn't have enough money to stop off at the pub for a gin and tonic, he angrily garrotted the girl. As a precaution, he taped her mouth with a piece of duct tape that he'd been using to patch a hole in the sole of his shoe. Impatient for her to die, he clubed her with his walking stick.

[MissOtisRegrets]

Originally posted by Louisadelmar


I've always wondered how carefully the painters were checked. There was the flood caused by one of them and the Ramseys were upset with the damage that happened from that while they were away. I read somewhere it was settled without going to court.


22 JOHN RAMSEY: We took the screens off when we
23 painted the house and he would have cleaned the
24 windows after the paint was done.
25 LOU SMIT: When was the painting done?
0072
1 JOHN RAMSEY: Oh, it was finished just before
2 that Boulder Home Tour, the Historic Home Tour,
3 which I think was in '94. And the painting went on
4 for years. Dominic thought the painter was -- well
5 she thought he was --
6 LOU SMIT: And who was the painter?
7 JOHN RAMSEY: Jay Pedopiece. The reason
8 I remember is, when it was over with, he went into
9 the house just to finish up some last little
10 touches. We were going to be out of town. Patsy
11 told him please close the windows when you leave.
12 And he left the windows open in my bedroom and
13 bathroom. The wind blew hard, blew open the
14 shutters which turned on the faucet and flooded
15 the whole house. About two weeks before this home
16 tour. (INAUDIBLE) coming out the garage doors and
17 I said, (What in the world is that.Þ (INAUDIBLE).
18 So Patsy went crazy trying to put that back
19 together in two weeks.

Wow. Thanks, Louisa. So there was bad feeling there. I had the impression that the basement had only recently been painted. After the trees that had been stored in the Access Graphics warehouse had been brought over and put in the wine cellar. Had the trees been in the wine cellar since '94 and just never been used before?

[LadyFisher]

Originally posted by MissOtisRegrets


A real bummer! But, things like this happen. My next door neighbors had a man repairing their roof. He had access to the house and unlatched the dog door before leaving one afternoon. Came back at night while they were out and pushed his young son through the dog door. My neighbors came home to find their stereo, tv, etc. gone.

A friend of mine's parents, who lived a block from me, were both murdered by the man who worked in their yard. He then stole her wedding ring, $83.00, and their car. For drugs.

I know that parents do kill their children all the time. By beatings, drownings, etc. But not by garrotte (not one case on file with the FBI). And completely out of the blue! And to then stage an abandoned kidnapping with their own pen, paper, and three pages of script to implicate themselves! It just doesn't fit or make sense imo. The Ramseys were wealthy. Their house was not well-protected at all and backed onto an alley where transients hung out and JonBenet and Burke both rode their bikes.

I just don't picture this guy as a transient though....I think he wanted revenge! He didn't even know JBs name or probably couldn't spell it....he intended on killing her imho He just played out some of his own sick fantasies while doing it! imho

[bullmoose]

You know, this got me thinking of personality types, LadyFisher; I have a brother-in-law that in some ways fits your profile: for instance he has always, since I've known him[35 years] , looked through peoples' mail, papers, savings and checking accounts when they were not there to see and stop him. He also would then complain bitterly about anybody that he had found to be wealthier than himself. He also worked for some years for acompany that goes in and cleans up flood and fire damage and I think after renovations in rich peoples homes; it would give him very good access to go through peoples' records. I even think he has master keys to all locks in N. America. He was given a great deal of money to start his own business by his parents some years back, he likes to live big so the money ran out; actually this b-i-l of mine sort of fits the profile you gave. We no longer see him, he moved to Colorado 15 years ago. He resents people much better off than him. I'm not making this up, there are people out there like this, my b-i-law is.

[MissOtisRegrets]

Wally, good theory but with one mistake. This Brit's addiction was to Pina Colada's (constantly reliving youth mispent in the Caribbean) and it was only after realizing that JonBenet had eaten all of the pineapple, that his thoughts turned to murder. The full bowl prominently displayed on the kitchen table the following morning was his attempt to cover his tracks.

[MissOtisRegrets]

Originally posted by LadyFisher
I just don't picture this guy as a transient though....I think he wanted revenge! He didn't even know JBs name or probably couldn't spell it....he intended on killing her imho He just played out some of his own sick fantasies while doing it! imho

I don't think it was a transient, either.

[Coloradokares]

I won't dispute what happened to your friends. However the Ramseys did not report robbery. You note however the area. Specifically transients in the neighborhood back alley. I know the area very well. I would not describe it as transients hanging out in back where JonBenet and Burke rode their bikes. These were nearing million dollar homes. Not perhaps Boulders most exclusive but it is a desireable neighborhood even if its a bit busier traffic wise right where the Ramsey house is. That neighborhood was not horribly far from the Chataqua Park.....But transient I wouldn't describe it that way. Not at all. I no longer live in the immediate Boulder area but I still go to Boulder at least probably once every other week to each week.

Originally posted by MissOtisRegrets


A real bummer! But, things like this happen. My next door neighbors had a man repairing their roof. He had access to the house and unlatched the dog door before leaving one afternoon. Came back at night while they were out and pushed his young son through the dog door. My neighbors came home to find their stereo, tv, etc. gone.

A friend of mine's parents, who lived a block from me, were both murdered by the man who worked in their yard. He then stole her wedding ring, $83.00, and their car. For drugs.

I know that parents do kill their children all the time. By beatings, drownings, etc. But not by garrotte (not one case on file with the FBI). And completely out of the blue! And to then stage an abandoned kidnapping with their own pen, paper, and three pages of script to implicate themselves! It just doesn't fit or make sense imo. The Ramseys were wealthy. Their house was not well-protected at all and backed onto an alley where transients hung out and JonBenet and Burke both rode their bikes.

Originally posted by MissOtisRegrets
Wally, good theory but with one mistake. This Brit's addiction was to Pina Colada's (constantly reliving youth mispent in the Caribbean) and it was only after realizing that JonBenet had eaten all of the pineapple, that his thoughts turned to murder. The full bowl prominently displayed on the kitchen table the following morning was his attempt to cover his tracks.

Of course, how stupid of me.

[MissOtisRegrets]

Originally posted by Coloradokares
I won't dispute what happened to your friends. However the Ramseys did not report robbery. You note however the area. Specifically transients in the neighborhood back alley. I know the area very well. I would not describe it as transients hanging out in back where JonBenet and Burke rode their bikes. These were nearing million dollar homes. Not perhaps Boulders most exclusive but it is a desireable neighborhood even if its a bit busier traffic wise right where the Ramsey house is. That neighborhood was not horribly far from the Chataqua Park.....But transient I wouldn't describe it that way. Not at all. I no longer live in the immediate Boulder area but I still go to Boulder at least probably once every other week to each week.

I'll take your word for it, Coloradokares. I've never been to Boulder. I got that from either PMPT or TCTHU. I don't remember which. It bothered me that those kids were allowed to play in that alley, if it was like that.

[Coloradokares]

Sure anytime you need to know something about Colorado or Boulder just ask. I think some books throw in a little sensationalism .....it sells book. I will give you the political climate in Boulder is one of a kind. We jokingly call it the 23 square miles surrounded by the rest of reality......but transient
and that neighborhood isn't a fit. The downfall of that house was its proximity to busier streets. Get all the newcrews going Uffdah!!

Originally posted by MissOtisRegrets


I'll take your word for it, Coloradokares. I've never been to Boulder. I got that from either PMPT or TCTHU. I don't remember which. It bothered me that those kids were allowed to play in that alley, if it was like that.

Originally posted by WallyCleaver


Hmmm,

I see him as an Englishman with a penchant for nudist magazines. He lived with his mother in their London flat until he moved to the US to take a job working for a company that makes shoe lace aglets.

He's 6'4", was 36 years old at the time of the murder, and wears an eye patch on his left eye- to cover for the fact that he has one blue and one brown eye. He has a scar on his left cheek, the result of a boyhood archery accident.

He's addicted to gins and tonic and in fact only broke into the Ramsey's home because he figured they had a nicely equipped bar. When he discovered the Ramseys were light drinkers, and the best gin they had was Beefeater, he became enraged and planned to kidnap JB and hold her until the R's agreed to buy Tanqueray.

While waiting for the R's to return he had time to watch a few movies - specifically "Dirty Harry", "Ransom", and "Speed".

After watching the films, he wandered aimlesly through the house and happened upon a check stub showing the amount of JR's bonus. This caused him to tear up and eat the original ransom note which only demanded Tanqueray gin, and replace it with the one we are familiar with. He reasoned JR wouldn't miss 118K as it was bonus money, and that amount would keep him in Tanqueray for quite some time.

As the night wore on, he thought about his nudist magazines and became very aroused. When at last he could come out from under JB's bed and grab her, he was too aroused to go through with his kidnapping plan. He left the ransom note on the stairs, hoping he could regain his composure and follow through with his plan. But the blood flow to his brain had been diverted, and all he could think of was gratification. He took her to the basement and molested her, and then, realizing he didn't have enough money to stop off at the pub for a gin and tonic, he angrily garrotted the girl. As a precaution, he taped her mouth with a piece of duct tape that he'd been using to patch a hole in the sole of his shoe. Impatient for her to die, he clubed her with his walking stick.

:lol:

[Louisadelmar]

If the killer is someone who knew the Ramseys through being an employee or an employee's family member, I sometimes wonder if the original plan was to kidnap her, knock her out and leave her trussed up in the basement. When the money was delivered the kidnapper would tell them where she was. That eliminates having to take care of the kidnap victim until the money is delivered. Then something unknown happened. Perhaps they hit her too hard and she started convulsing and then appeared dead. They panicked and all the subsequent staging was to point away from themselves (a 'normal', heterosexual male) and make it look like a pedophile killed her. The sexual assault is not as bad as one might expect under the circumstances so I have my doubts about whether this was done for the gratification of a real pedophile. If they were jealous/angry at the Ramseys for their money and perceived power, it may never have occurred to them that the Ramseys would be suspects. Given this set-up one of my questions is whether they left the note on purpose or just forgot it cause they wanted to get out ASAP.

[thewhitewitch1]

Originally posted by Louisadelmar
If the killer is someone who knew the Ramseys through being an employee or an employee's family member, I sometimes wonder if the original plan was to kidnap her, knock her out and leave her trussed up in the basement. When the money was delivered the kidnapper would tell them where she was. That eliminates having to take care of the kidnap victim until the money is delivered. Then something unknown happened. Perhaps they hit her too hard and she started convulsing and then appeared dead. They panicked and all the subsequent staging was to point away from themselves (a 'normal', heterosexual male) and make it look like a pedophile killed her. The sexual assault is not as bad as one might expect under the circumstances so I have my doubts about whether this was done for the gratification of a real pedophile. If they were jealous/angry at the Ramseys for their money and perceived power, it may never have occurred to them that the Ramseys would be suspects. Given this set-up one of my questions is whether they left the note on purpose or just forgot it cause they wanted to get out ASAP.

Actually, authorities believe there was no gratification for the killer...they believe the "sexual assult" was staged.

[Louisadelmar]

Missed the edit window... :-(

That might explain leaving her on the blanket, (because she was going to be lying there (alive) for several hours), using the paper/pen from the house (so it couldn't be traced back to them) but taking the tape and rope since they had been recently purchased and they felt the excess needed to be disposed of because it might have picked up trace evidence that could be linked to them.

[Louisadelmar]

Originally posted by thewhitewitch1


Actually, authorities believe there was no gratification for the killer...they believe the "sexual assult" was staged.

Yes. That was what I was saying.

[Athena]

Originally posted by bullmoose
You know, this got me thinking of personality types, LadyFisher; I have a brother-in-law that in some ways fits your profile: for instance he has always, since I've known him[35 years] , looked through peoples' mail, papers, savings and checking accounts when they were not there to see and stop him. He also would then complain bitterly about anybody that he had found to be wealthier than himself. He also worked for some years for acompany that goes in and cleans up flood and fire damage and I think after renovations in rich peoples homes; it would give him very good access to go through peoples' records. I even think he has master keys to all locks in N. America. He was given a great deal of money to start his own business by his parents some years back, he likes to live big so the money ran out; actually this b-i-l of mine sort of fits the profile you gave. We no longer see him, he moved to Colorado 15 years ago. He resents people much better off than him. I'm not making this up, there are people out there like this, my b-i-law is.

I think I know your BIL. Just kidding; but I know people like that as well including a cop who loves to pull over people in fancy cars just to get their goat. Can't stand the fact that they have more than he does. It's really sad but there are many like him. jmo

[Athena]

Originally posted by thewhitewitch1


Actually, authorities believe there was no gratification for the killer...they believe the "sexual assult" was staged.

I agree with that statement -- it was just a "gotcha". jmo

[thewhitewitch1]

Originally posted by Athena


I agree with that statement -- it was just a "gotcha". jmo

I don't think it was a "gotcha". Just staging to look like it was a sexual predator.

[Athena]

Originally posted by WallyCleaver


Of course, how stupid of me.

Thanks for the laughs Wally and MsO ... 'tis funny! LOL

[MissOtisRegrets]

Originally posted by Coloradokares
Sure anytime you need to know something about Colorado or Boulder just ask. I think some books throw in a little sensationalism .....it sells book. I will give you the political climate in Boulder is one of a kind. We jokingly call it the 23 square miles surrounded by the rest of reality......but transient
and that neighborhood isn't a fit. The downfall of that house was its proximity to busier streets. Get all the newcrews going Uffdah!!

Thanks, CK. Were there a lot of college and grad school kids in the area the Ramseys lived in? Doing odd jobs for extra money?

Originally posted by Louisadelmar
If the killer is someone who knew the Ramseys through being an employee or an employee's family member, I sometimes wonder if the original plan was to kidnap her, knock her out and leave her trussed up in the basement. When the money was delivered the kidnapper would tell them where she was. That eliminates having to take care of the kidnap victim until the money is delivered. Then something unknown happened. Perhaps they hit her too hard and she started convulsing and then appeared dead. They panicked and all the subsequent staging was to point away from themselves (a 'normal', heterosexual male) and make it look like a pedophile killed her. The sexual assault is not as bad as one might expect under the circumstances so I have my doubts about whether this was done for the gratification of a real pedophile. If they were jealous/angry at the Ramseys for their money and perceived power, it may never have occurred to them that the Ramseys would be suspects. Given this set-up one of my questions is whether they left the note on purpose or just forgot it cause they wanted to get out ASAP.

If I can paraphrase Mr. Spock- That's highly illogical.

Under that theory, the kidnapper would have to be counting on no one finding the body before the ransom was delivered. Had the Ramseys acted the way most people would, they'd have searched the whole house, including the wine cellar. Had the police been more than Keystone Kops, they'd have found the body by 6:15. There is simply no way a kidnapper could plan for an uninuisitive family and incompetent police.

IOW, a ransom note, and the body both in the house doesn't add up. It was never a real kidnapping.

uninquisitive is what I meant to write.

[MissOtisRegrets]

Warning: unpleasant post!

I think the person who made that garrotte had made one (many) before. He didn't just pull that thought/technique out of the air on the spur of the moment. He had practiced at home. I think he was fascinated by the idea of strangulation and beheading (both can be accomplished with a garrotte) and had visited websites. He had experimented on small animals. Seeing the paintbox gave him the idea. It wasn't necessary, but he was interested in what the experience was like. He broke one of the brushes and tied it onto the cord. After applying the garrotte and before abusing JB, he posed her arms above her head to give the impression she was both handcuffed and suspended (3 loops). (She was unconscious, so the loops served no real purpose and were loose. She had been zapped once in the bed and once in the basement before he left her alone to take the note upstairs.) He loved bondage. He loved ritual. He loved fantasy. He cleaned her afterwards to remove any traces of himself. The experience had drained him emotionally. He was crying. The kidnapping and the note were long forgotten. He just had to get out of there before he was sick. He hit her with his flashlight. Partly for her and partly for himself. He left through the window.

MOO

Originally posted by MissOtisRegrets
Warning: unpleasant post!

I think the person who made that garrotte had made one (many) before. He didn't just pull that thought/technique out of the air on the spur of the moment. He had practiced at home. I think he was fascinated by the idea of strangulation and beheading (both can be accomplished with a garrotte) and had visited websites. He had experimented on small animals. Seeing the paintbox gave him the idea. It wasn't necessary, but he was interested in what the experience was like. He broke one of the brushes and tied it onto the cord. After applying the garrotte and before abusing JB, he posed her arms above her head to give the impression she was both handcuffed and suspended (3 loops). (She was unconscious, so the loops served no real purpose and were loose. She had been zapped once in the bed and once in the basement before he left her alone to take the note upstairs.) He loved bondage. He loved ritual. He loved fantasy. He cleaned her afterwards to remove any traces of himself. The experience had drained him emotionally. He was crying. The kidnapping and the note were long forgotten. He just had to get out of there before he was sick. He hit her with his flashlight. Partly for her and partly for himself. He left through the window.

MOO

I thought the flashlight ended up on the kitchen couner. Or did that one belong to the Rs? And if it belonged to the Rs, why did they wipe their prints off the batteries?

[MissOtisRegrets]

Originally posted by WallyCleaver


IOW, a ransom note, and the body both in the house doesn't add up. It was never a real kidnapping.

But, Wally, that is precisely why the Ramseys would not have staged one. According to your theory, they knew the body was in the house.

[MissOtisRegrets]

Originally posted by WallyCleaver


I thought the flashlight ended up on the kitchen couner. Or did that one belong to the Rs? And if it belonged to the Rs, why did they wipe their prints off the batteries?

Why would they wipe their prints off their own flashlight? This cover-up is so elaborate, I'm surprised they were even finished by 6am.

Originally posted by MissOtisRegrets


But, Wally, that is precisely why the Ramseys would not have staged one. According to your theory, they knew the body was in the house.

But they had to stage something. It wasn't the smartest choice, but they had to do something.

[thewhitewitch1]

Originally posted by MissOtisRegrets


Why would they wipe their prints off their own flashlight? This cover-up is so elaborate, I'm surprised they were even finished by 6am.

If the flashlight somehow played a part in the murder, I can see why they would wipe their prints off of it. The ransom note should have had their prints on it but didn't. The tape removed from JBs mouth should have had JRs prints on it but didn't.
I don't think the staging was that elaborate. Also, the "garrote" wasn't really a garotte but merely a noose with the paintbrush handle tied to one end. The only thing that would have taken a lot of time was the note...and even that is questionable in regards to how long it took. The Ramseys (or whoever) had 7 hours to complete every aspect of the crime, including the staging. That seems like plenty of time for anyone to have done these things. Possibly, though, an intruder would not have that much time. They'd want to be out of there a.s.a.p. unless they also knew what time the Ramseys would be getting up. They wouldn't want to hang out too long in case one of the family got up at some point in the night too...or so you'd think.

[MissOtisRegrets]

Originally posted by WallyCleaver


But they had to stage something. It wasn't the smartest choice, but they had to do something.

Did it ever occur to you that "and hence" was put in to mock Patsy?

O/T Somebody just held up a sign saying "Walk your dog. Not Pujols."

[Coloradokares]

Maybe some I believe the Ramseys even had one working as a gardner? It is a college town. I really think though that everyone they'd had working for them personally was cleared however. One think I have observed. Alot of College kids were more interested in partying or ** shock** obtaining an education. The area they lived in was most definitely upwardly mobile. The Ramseys lived in world surrounded by power influence and position. Access Graphics was well known Lockheed even more so....

Originally posted by MissOtisRegrets


Thanks, CK. Were there a lot of college and grad school kids in the area the Ramseys lived in? Doing odd jobs for extra money?