Two Ramsey Questions

[MissOtisRegrets]

I realize this is old business. TIA for answers.

1. Was it ever explained why John Ramsey would (pg.13 PMPT),
during his search of the basement for JonBenet, who was at this point (just before 10am) still thought to have been kidnapped, close a broken window he found open there?

2. Two days after Thanksgiving in 1996, the housekeeper's husband and son-in-law helped her carry full-sized artificial Christmas trees that were being stored in the room in the basement where JonBenet's body was later found upstairs and set them up in the bedrooms for Christmas (pg. 81 PMPT). The housekeeper was at the Ramsey's for the Christmas party on December 23rd. Were the husband and son-in-law helping out that night, as well?. Did either of them speak to JonBenet during the party? Were they investigated and cleared by any evidence other than DNA (possibly artifact) or handwriting?

TIA

Originally posted by MissOtisRegrets
I realize this is old business. TIA for answers.
...
2. Two days after Thanksgiving in 1996, the housekeeper's husband and son-in-law helped her carry full-sized artificial Christmas trees that were being stored in the room in the basement where JonBenet's body was later found upstairs and set them up in the bedrooms for Christmas (pg. 81 PMPT). The housekeeper was at the Ramsey's for the Christmas party on December 23rd. Were the husband and son-in-law helping out that night, as well?. Did either of them speak to JonBenet during the party? Were they investigated and cleared by any evidence other than DNA (possibly artifact) or handwriting?

TIA

I've always wondered about the HK angle given how personal the crime was but she seemed to have been cleared. Not sure how extensively they interrogated the people connected to her.

[MissOtisRegrets]

Originally posted by darjeeling


I've always wondered about the HK angle given how personal the crime was but she seemed to have been cleared. Not sure how extensively they interrogated the people connected to her.

Thanks for answering, darjeeling. It made me wonder, when I read that. I have many times heard the argument on TV that few would have even known of the existence of that room in the basement and that the house has such a complicated floor plan, that finding JB's room, itself, would have been difficult for an outsider. But, here we have Linda Hoffmann-Pugh's husband and son-in-law going from that particular room in the basement directly to JB's room and back again several weeks before the murder.

[Jadedblueeyes]

Originally posted by Bill Board
IMO...We will never know if the Ramseys are guilty or not.

I think this killer, who imo lives alone...sits back and laughs his diabolical head off at all of us...including John and before her death, Patsy.

He left them a riddle he knew they could never solve. IMO this was a very orchestrated long thoughtout processed crime. Highly critiqued way before he went in.

IMO

Ocean

The housekeeper's husband and son in law should have been investigated..I wonder if they were. A good connection between them and that room is established. Would either of them have had a grudge against the Ramsey's?
As to why John shut the window...if it was winter and I found a window open, I would automatically shut it. But then it might hit me that an intruder could have come in if my daughter were at that moment, missing.
Then again, as jadedblueyes says...I still have a feeling this is an acquaintance of the Ramseys that killed JB. I think he has gotten away with it and probably won't be found. JMO

Originally posted by Bill Board
IMO...We will never know if the Ramseys are guilty or not.

I have to agree with you Bill Board...I have a feeling we will never know who killed JB. Sad.

[MissOtisRegrets]

Originally posted by rosyredrobin
Hi MissO - do you know this CTV board is open re: the Ramsey case?

http://boards.courttv.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=305

Also, I am reading Dr. Lee's book "Cracking More Cases." It mentioned that John closed the window, but doesn't say why and so far I haven't read anything about the housekeeper being at the party of the 23rd.

I remember reading something about a housekeeper and her daughter attending a Christmas party. Patsy gave the child a Christmas vest to put on, and wrote something for Santa to read to the child during the party. This could have been the housekeeper in Atlanta. I think I read that in PM/PT.

Thanks, rosy. I didn't know about that board.

Linda Hoffmann-Pugh must have been at the party on the 23rd in Boulder, because, when John Ramsey gave a roll of undeveloped film from the party to the police, he told them they might find an image of her on it. I was assuming she was there because she was working that night and wondered if her husband or son-in-law was there, too, helping out. Or if they might have picked her up afterwards. I was thinking about JB's comment that Santa had been at the party and was going to pay her a surprise visit after Christmas and that it was a secret.

Linda Hoffmann-Pugh didn't know that that room was there until after Thanksgiving. She was looking for the six full-sized artificial trees that had been delivered from the Access Graphics storage hangar and were to be set up upstairs in the five bedrooms and playroom. She couldn't find them and finally gave up looking. She and her daughter washed the windows and, then, she began looking again and discovered this room that she didn't know was there and that the six trees were in it. Her husband and son-in-law came over and helped take the trees upstairs to all the rooms, including JonBenet's, in preparation for Christmas.

[MissOtisRegrets]

Originally posted by nutmeg22
The housekeeper's husband and son in law should have been investigated..I wonder if they were. A good connection between them and that room is established. Would either of them have had a grudge against the Ramsey's?
As to why John shut the window...if it was winter and I found a window open, I would automatically shut it. But then it might hit me that an intruder could have come in if my daughter were at that moment, missing.
Then again, as jadedblueyes says...I still have a feeling this is an acquaintance of the Ramseys that killed JB. I think he has gotten away with it and probably won't be found. JMO

His daughter is missing from her bed, a ransom note has been found in the house, the police are now at the house, and, while looking for any clues of his daughter's kidnapping, he finds a broken window open in the basement and closes it and returns upstairs. Odd thing to do, rather than call upstairs to the police and tell them to come downstairs immediately that he might have found something.

Originally posted by MissOtisRegrets


His daughter is missing from her bed, a ransom note has been found in the house, the police are now at the house, and, while looking for any clues of his daughter's kidnapping, he finds a broken window open in the basement and closes it and returns upstairs. Odd thing to do, rather than call upstairs to the police and tell them to come downstairs immediately that he might have found something.

I agree!!!

Originally posted by Jadedblueeyes


I think this killer, who imo lives alone...sits back and laughs his diabolical head off at all of us...including John and before her death, Patsy.

He left them a riddle he knew they could never solve. IMO this was a very orchestrated long thoughtout processed crime. Highly critiqued way before he went in.

IMO

Ocean

KIlling a young girl wouldn't make much sense if he wanted ransom money. You'd think he'd write a ransom note beforehand, instead of first practicing on the Ramsey's notepad, and then writing an actual ransom note. Why wouldn't he take the poor girl's body along, after she was dead? The ransom note is useless, and incriminating evidence, since they're bound ot find her body in the basement, even if he killed her after writing the note. If he was a pedophile, why would he even kill her? Just tie and gag her, and take her along.

Originally posted by Jadedblueeyes


I think this killer, who imo lives alone...sits back and laughs his diabolical head off at all of us...including John and before her death, Patsy.

He left them a riddle he knew they could never solve. IMO this was a very orchestrated long thoughtout processed crime. Highly critiqued way before he went in.

IMO

Ocean

Me too my friend. We might not agree on all cases, but our passion and fire are one in the same and I know your heart hurts for that family as does mine.

[hohum]

Originally posted by MissOtisRegrets


Thanks for answering, darjeeling. It made me wonder, when I read that. I have many times heard the argument on TV that few would have even known of the existence of that room in the basement and that the house has such a complicated floor plan, that finding JB's room, itself, would have been difficult for an outsider. But, here we have Linda Hoffmann-Pugh's husband and son-in-law going from that particular room in the basement directly to JB's room and back again several weeks before the murder.

And they needed money very badly. It's certainly likely that Linda or her husband, by working around the house, would have seen a pay stub lying around (the Ramsey's weren't the neatest people).

[hohum]

Originally posted by rosyredrobin


Unless he knew/thought the window had been open since he broke it some months earlier. He was probably preoccupied because it was shortly before 10:00 a.m. - didn't the note say something about the kidnapper calling at 10:00.m.

I would think preoccupation would be a good guess. Plus it was not odd to John that the window was open, that was the way he remembered it after he broke in the night he locked himself out. So that would not have been a red flag to John. Though that is not to say an intruder didn't come in that way either. How easy to "break in" when the window is already broken and possibly open?

[hohum]

Originally posted by Tubaleer


KIlling a young girl wouldn't make much sense if he wanted ransom money.

Maybe that is why the killer only put the ransom amount at $118,000, he already planned on killing JB. And he wrote the note before the murder.

[hohum]

Originally posted by Jadedblueeyes


I think this killer, who imo lives alone...sits back and laughs his diabolical head off at all of us...including John and before her death, Patsy.

He left them a riddle he knew they could never solve. IMO this was a very orchestrated long thoughtout processed crime. Highly critiqued way before he went in.

IMO

Ocean

I think you may be right and it makes me so mad.

So many brilliant minds in this world and the case is still a mystery. There are clues in there somewhere that no one has connected, I'm sure of it. There is no perfect crime. I'm still hoping for justice. Fingers crossed.

[Athena]

Originally posted by Notnathanhecht
I have believed that Patsy Ramsey did this since New Years Day when she appeared on CNN. I've never waivered from that belief either.

Why?

[hohum]

Originally posted by Notnathanhecht
I have believed that Patsy Ramsey did this since New Years Day when she appeared on CNN. I've never waivered from that belief either.

Back when the tabloids plastered their covers with pure garbage about Patsy, John, and even Burke I thought maybe the parents did have something to do with it. But once I got away from those glaring headlines based on absolutely nothing but innuendo and really read the facts and separated the two, I came to believe that neither parent could have been involved in any way. There is a dreadful, sinister, evil murderer out there roaming around this very day, unless they are dead. If you haven't already and are interested, I would recommend reading Perfect Murder Perfect Town because it's as factual a book as there is and impartial too. I really didn't start reading and researching until Patsy died and then for some reason I read everything I could find.

Originally posted by Tubaleer


KIlling a young girl wouldn't make much sense if he wanted ransom money. You'd think he'd write a ransom note beforehand, instead of first practicing on the Ramsey's notepad, and then writing an actual ransom note. Why wouldn't he take the poor girl's body along, after she was dead? The ransom note is useless, and incriminating evidence, since they're bound ot find her body in the basement, even if he killed her after writing the note. If he was a pedophile, why would he even kill her? Just tie and gag her, and take her along.

There is one possible answer for this. The person may have written the ransom note believing that this would only be a kidnapping. I believe that the ransom note was written first. Then when the person realized he or she had killed JonBenet that person may have panicked and left in a hurry forgetting the ransom note.

Originally posted by hohum


Maybe that is why the killer only put the ransom amount at $118,000, he already planned on killing JB. And he wrote the note before the murder.

The ransom note is the reason I believe that the murderer has to be an acquaintance of the Ramseys -- because of that $118,000 amount.

[hohum]

Originally posted by Notnathanhecht


Thanks. I read it when it came out. Still haven't changed my mind. My opinion was not influenced by any tabloids, just by reading about the case and observing Patsy very carefully.

I can't find any motive for Patsy to have murdered JB.

Anyway I bought a National Enquirer today since there was an article included on Karr. Have you ever seen one man wear so much makeup, other than The Lady Chablais from Savannah (Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil)? There was also included a pic of him with a Cabbage Patch Doll and one of him wearing a bra. That was attractive.

[hohum]

Originally posted by hoopa7p@aol.com



The ransom note is the reason I believe that the murderer has to be an acquaintance of the Ramseys -- because of that $118,000 amount.

I think the murderer used the amount of $118,000 solely for the purpose of casting suspicion on the Ramsey's and away from himself. Which is exactly what happened. Using that amount was no coincidence. They needed to narrow down the list of people who could have known about that bonus of John's. I imagine the killer is still getting a hearty hah hah out of confusing the note with that amount.

[hohum]

Originally posted by hoopa7p@aol.com




There is one possible answer for this. The person may have written the ransom note believing that this would only be a kidnapping. I believe that the ransom note was written first. Then when the person realized he or she had killed JonBenet that person may have panicked and left in a hurry forgetting the ransom note.

If the killer knew about John's bonus and that is the reason they used that amount, I think if they had really intended to kidnap for ransom rather than murder JB they would have asked for much more money, say 1 million. Knowing they planned on killing JB then it didn't really matter how much they wanted the ransom to be other than to put suspicion on the parents. JMO.

Originally posted by Notnathanhecht


Thanks. I read it when it came out. Still haven't changed my mind. My opinion was not influenced by any tabloids, just by reading about the case and observing Patsy very carefully.

Patsy was her own worst enemy. She did not come accross as sincere or genuine. Sadly, that is what convicted her. They made mistakes, or their attorneys did.

But I am 100% convinced neither had anything to do with JB's murder. A mother with cancer tortures and (violently) murders her daughter?

No I dont think so.....

[Athena]

Originally posted by MissOtisRegrets
I realize this is old business. TIA for answers.

1. Was it ever explained why John Ramsey would (pg.13 PMPT),
during his search of the basement for JonBenet, who was at this point (just before 10am) still thought to have been kidnapped, close a broken window he found open there?

2. Two days after Thanksgiving in 1996, the housekeeper's husband and son-in-law helped her carry full-sized artificial Christmas trees that were being stored in the room in the basement where JonBenet's body was later found upstairs and set them up in the bedrooms for Christmas (pg. 81 PMPT). The housekeeper was at the Ramsey's for the Christmas party on December 23rd. Were the husband and son-in-law helping out that night, as well?. Did either of them speak to JonBenet during the party? Were they investigated and cleared by any evidence other than DNA (possibly artifact) or handwriting?

TIA

2) I did not know that the housekeeper had a son-in-law. I believe her daughter was only 12? I have read (can't find a link) that both her and her husband were investigated early on and cleared. I also believe that both of them testified at the Grand Jury. jmo

1) The window --

John Ramsey interview - June 1998

5 LOU SMIT: You're going to have to back up a

6 little so that the camera (INAUDIBLE)?

7 JOHN RAMSEY: I came down the stairs. I went

8 in this room here. This door was kind of blocked.

9 We had a bunch of junk down here and there was a

10 chair that was in front of the door. Some old

11 things. I moved the chair, went into this room,

12 went back in here. This window was open, maybe

13 that far.

14 LOU SMIT: Okay. You said -- or how far

15 were

16 you? An inch?

17 JOHN RAMSEY: An inch, maybe, or less. It

18 was cracked open.

19 LOU SMIT: Which window?

20 JOHN RAMSEY: I think it was the little one.

21 There's three windows across here, as I recall. I

22 think it was the middle one. It was that was

23 broken. There was pane class broken out of it,

24 which I attributed to breaking myself.

25 LOU SMIT: People go into that basement?

0153

1 JOHN RAMSEY: But it was open and there

2 was

3 a suitcase under it. This hard Samsonite suitcase.

4 LOU SMIT: Describe how the suitcase was

5 positioned?

6 JOHN RAMSEY: It was against the wall. I think

7 the handle was on top. It was directly under the

8 window, as I recall. And I closed the window, I

9 don't know why, but I closed it. And then --

10 LOU SMIT: When you closed it, did you lock

11 it or close it?

12 JOHN RAMSEY: I latched it. There's a little

13 latch on it.

14 LOU SMIT: And you're sure of that?

15 JOHN RAMSEY: Pretty sure, yeah. Yeah, I am

16 sure. I don't think I looked anywhere else. I

17 think at that point I still was trying to figure

18 out how they'd get in the house.

19 LOU SMIT: Well wouldn't that trigger your

20 (INAUDIBLE).

21 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah. Yeah.

22 LOU SMIT: Did you tell anybody about that?

23 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't really remember. I mean,

24 part of what is going on you're in such a state of

25 disbelief this can even happen. And the, you know,

0154

1 the window had been broken out. And you say hah,

2 that's it. But it was a window that I had used to

3 get into the house before. It was cracked and open

4 a little bit. It wasn't terribly unusual for me.

5 Sometimes it would get opened to let cool air in

6 because that basement could get real hot in

7 winter. So it was like, you know, after I thought

8 about it, I thought it was more of an alarming

9 situation how it struck me at the time. It was

10 still sort of explainable to me that it could have

11 been left open.

http://www.jonbenetindexguide.com/19...w-Complete.htm

[TaraCrazyHair]

The fact that the "kidnappers" used the term "beheaded" in reference to JonBenet has always convinced me this was a fake letter and the similarities to Patsy's handwriting analysis will forever cement it in my mind that she wrote it


Kidnappers will say "your daughter will die" -- they do not threaten to behead a hostage

Unless it is the year 2005 and they are extremists in Iraq

Exuse me. I have not read the whole thread.

I gave away all my JonBenet books to Community Service just about a month ago. What I remember though, is that Patsy didn't recognize the underwear Jb had on the night she was killed.. anybody remember this??

Could have been something she borrowed from a friend??

DNA could come from anywhere??

[TaraCrazyHair]

Originally posted by DixieChick


Patsy was her own worst enemy. She did not come accross as sincere or genuine. Sadly, that is what convicted her. They made mistakes, or their attorneys did.

But I am 100% convinced neither had anything to do with JB's murder. A mother with cancer tortures and (violently) murders her daughter?

No I dont think so.....

Accidental death due to rage (or as the term these days -- "snapped") and a huge cover up

Not that far out of the realm of posibility

Not far at all

[TaraCrazyHair]

Originally posted by sturetroll
Exuse me. I have not read the whole thread.

I gave away all my JonBenet books to Community Service just about a month ago. What I remember though, is that Patsy didn't recognize the underwear Jb had on the night she was killed.. anybody remember this??

Could have been something she borrowed from a friend??

DNA could come from anywhere??

I thought the panties were a gift from the Aunt and that was why the size was larger than she normally wore?

[MissOtisRegrets]

Maybe the ransom note was just "fun" for whoever wrote it. In addition to the below, two of the lines were from "Dirty Harry" and one was from "Speed".

from "Perfect Murder, Perfect Town", pg. 294:

On the night JonBenet was murdered, the movie "Nick of Time" aired at 7:30 pm on a Boulder cable tv channel. The story centers around an unnamed political faction that kidnaps a six-year old girl. The victim is told, "Listen to me very carefully." [snip] The ransom note begins "Listen carefully."

Originally posted by TaraCrazyHair


I thought the panties were a gift from the Aunt and that was why the size was larger than she normally wore?

Typically aunts..

Originally posted by Athena


2) I did not know that the housekeeper had a son-in-law. I believe her daughter was only 12? I have read (can't find a link) that both her and her husband were investigated early on and cleared. I also believe that both of them testified at the Grand Jury. jmo

1) The window --

John Ramsey interview - June 1998

5 LOU SMIT: You're going to have to back up a

6 little so that the camera (INAUDIBLE)?

7 JOHN RAMSEY: I came down the stairs. I went

8 in this room here. This door was kind of blocked.

9 We had a bunch of junk down here and there was a

10 chair that was in front of the door. Some old

11 things. I moved the chair, went into this room,

12 went back in here. This window was open, maybe

13 that far.

14 LOU SMIT: Okay. You said -- or how far

15 were

16 you? An inch?

17 JOHN RAMSEY: An inch, maybe, or less. It

18 was cracked open.

19 LOU SMIT: Which window?

20 JOHN RAMSEY: I think it was the little one.

21 There's three windows across here, as I recall. I

22 think it was the middle one. It was that was

23 broken. There was pane class broken out of it,

24 which I attributed to breaking myself.

25 LOU SMIT: People go into that basement?

0153

1 JOHN RAMSEY: But it was open and there

2 was

3 a suitcase under it. This hard Samsonite suitcase.

4 LOU SMIT: Describe how the suitcase was

5 positioned?

6 JOHN RAMSEY: It was against the wall. I think

7 the handle was on top. It was directly under the

8 window, as I recall. And I closed the window, I

9 don't know why, but I closed it. And then --

10 LOU SMIT: When you closed it, did you lock

11 it or close it?

12 JOHN RAMSEY: I latched it. There's a little

13 latch on it.

14 LOU SMIT: And you're sure of that?

15 JOHN RAMSEY: Pretty sure, yeah. Yeah, I am

16 sure. I don't think I looked anywhere else. I

17 think at that point I still was trying to figure

18 out how they'd get in the house.

19 LOU SMIT: Well wouldn't that trigger your

20 (INAUDIBLE).

21 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah. Yeah.

22 LOU SMIT: Did you tell anybody about that?

23 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't really remember. I mean,

24 part of what is going on you're in such a state of

25 disbelief this can even happen. And the, you know,

0154

1 the window had been broken out. And you say hah,

2 that's it. But it was a window that I had used to

3 get into the house before. It was cracked and open

4 a little bit. It wasn't terribly unusual for me.

5 Sometimes it would get opened to let cool air in

6 because that basement could get real hot in

7 winter. So it was like, you know, after I thought

8 about it, I thought it was more of an alarming

9 situation how it struck me at the time. It was

10 still sort of explainable to me that it could have

11 been left open.

http://www.jonbenetindexguide.com/19...w-Complete.htm

Ok. I am new to this case and these questions may have been answered previously. Was the suitcase ever tested for fingerprints and footprints? Obviously the murderer may have used it to escape through the window. Also, what condition was the suitcase in when it was found? Were they any dents in the suitcase at all?

The suitcase near the window is suspicious to me. I have tried to stand on hard suitcases before and they have always fallen over. I would think that if a person had just committed a murder and was trying to leave in a hurry might use the suitcase to get through the window, but it most likely would have fallen over. I seem to remember seeing it standing upright.

Wasn't there fresh snow on the ground? If a person had used the basement window as an escape then the snow outside the window would have been disturbed quite a bit from the murderers body. Was the snow outside that basement window disturbed?

[TaraCrazyHair]

Originally posted by MissOtisRegrets
Maybe the ransom note was just "fun" for whoever wrote it. In addition to the below, two of the lines were from "Dirty Harry" and one was from "Speed".

from "Perfect Murder, Perfect Town", pg. 294:

On the night JonBenet was murdered, the movie "Nick of Time" aired at 7:30 pm on a Boulder cable tv channel. The story centers around an unnamed political faction that kidnaps a six-year old girl. The victim is told, "Listen to me very carefully." [snip] The ransom note begins "Listen carefully."

And Patsy was a movie buff -- correct?

I swore I read that someplace

[Mimi428]

Originally posted by Jadedblueeyes


I think this killer, who imo lives alone...sits back and laughs his diabolical head off at all of us...including John and before her death, Patsy.

He left them a riddle he knew they could never solve. IMO this was a very orchestrated long thoughtout processed crime. Highly critiqued way before he went in.

IMO

Ocean

Do you know of any other instances in which a person committed this kind of unbelievably vile crime out of sheer hatred for another person(s) was actually able to be satisfied with what they had done - & leave it at that?

I can't recall any person or case like that. Even the Unabomber, who was 'dormant' for many years, could not be satisfied with the havoc he had previously wreaked. He had to start it up again.

If some intruder had so much hatred boiling up inside of him that he did this out of motivation to ruin the Ramsey parents, I just do not believe he would have forever after been satisfied. He would have contacted them again, I think. To rub it in. To gloat. To say "see, you aren't such a hot shot, such a big guy, such a wonderful family man".

And on the infinitely tiny chance that the murder & the resulting focus on the Ramsey family satisfied him, a person with that mindset would have found another person somewhere down the line who ALSO irritated them beyond reason.

Show me a case - ANY case - where another person has been so obsessed that they would murder someone close to the target of their hatred - & then not be caught, not gloat, not find a new target. IOW, after the deed is done, they don't get the satisfaction they thought they would. The hatred would still seethe, the jealousy (or whatever) would still burn.

MOO

[Athena]

Originally posted by sturetroll
Typically aunts..

Patsy bought the underwear at Bloomingdales in NY as a gift for her niece who was older than JonBenet but never gave them to her. Patsy did not put on JonBenet's underwear -- she did. They were in her underwear drawer and they said Wednesday on them and Christmas 1996 was a Wed.

...one thing is for sure, the killer didnt leave the house through the open window.
in one of the interviews that was replayed after the arrest of jmk there was a statement by john ramsey that he had to unlock a slider bolt that was on the outside of the door that jbr was in.

i had never heard this before these recent replays and that, i find to be quite curious.

[Athena]

Originally posted by Mimi428


Do you know of any other instances in which a person committed this kind of unbelievably vile crime out of sheer hatred for another person(s) was actually able to be satisfied with what they had done - & leave it at that?

I can't recall any person or case like that. Even the Unabomber, who was 'dormant' for many years, could not be satisfied with the havoc he had previously wreaked. He had to start it up again.

If some intruder had so much hatred boiling up inside of him that he did this out of motivation to ruin the Ramsey parents, I just do not believe he would have forever after been satisfied. He would have contacted them again, I think. To rub it in. To gloat. To say "see, you aren't such a hot shot, such a big guy, such a wonderful family man".

And on the infinitely tiny chance that the murder & the resulting focus on the Ramsey family satisfied him, a person with that mindset would have found another person somewhere down the line who ALSO irritated them beyond reason.

Show me a case - ANY case - where another person has been so obsessed that they would murder someone close to the target of their hatred - & then not be caught, not gloat, not find a new target. IOW, after the deed is done, they don't get the satisfaction they thought they would. The hatred would still seethe, the jealousy (or whatever) would still burn.

MOO

This case is not like any other case. JMHO

http://boards.courttv.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=306

[Athena]

Originally posted by Notnathanhecht


Thanks. I read it when it came out. Still haven't changed my mind. My opinion was not influenced by any tabloids, just by reading about the case and observing Patsy very carefully.

Don't get me started - LOL. Just how is one supposed to act when they are grieving? I've never read the manual.

[TaraCrazyHair]

Originally posted by Athena


Patsy bought the underwear at Bloomingdales in NY as a gift for her niece who was older than JonBenet but never gave them to her. Patsy did not put on JonBenet's underwear -- she did. They were in her underwear drawer and they said Wednesday on them and Christmas 1996 was a Wed.

Thanks for clearing that up for me (A gift but not for Christmas?) .. I thought it was stated differently but this case changes with the wind over the past ten years

Another thing that always bothered me about the "ransom note" .. the non-use of JonBenet's name

Calculated move

[MissOtisRegrets]

Originally posted by Athena


2) I did not know that the housekeeper had a son-in-law. I believe her daughter was only 12? I have read (can't find a link) that both her and her husband were investigated early on and cleared. I also believe that both of them testified at the Grand Jury. jmo

Thanks for posting that about the window, Athena. I never followed this case, except a little on TV. I thought the Ramseys did it (no footprints in the snow, etc.) but then I became a believer in the intruder theory because I didn't believe it was a cover-up. I know little about the case. Rosy has been recommending PMPT, so I ordered it when Karr was arrested and decided to learn something. It only arrived two days ago and I'm not even halfway through it, so everything is new for me.

from pg. 81:

The next day the housekeeper had her older daughter, Tina, her son-in-law, Mike, and her husband, Merv, take all the trees upstairs and place them in their proper rooms.

[MissOtisRegrets]

Originally posted by TGCJ
...one thing is for sure, the killer didnt leave the house through the open window.
in one of the interviews that was replayed after the arrest of jmk there was a statement by john ramsey that he had to unlock a slider bolt that was on the outside of the door that jbr was in.

i had never heard this before these recent replays and that, i find to be quite curious.

I believe the broken window was in Burke's train room and the room in which the body was found was off the boiler room.