The Life and Times of John Karr

[Helping Hand]

Just heard this on MSNBC (sorry no link yet). Correct me if I am wrong abou this. How would play into the already known facts about the case. I must admitt I didn't follow this case ten years ago so.. someone with more info step up here and fill us in. TIA

HH

[nuisanceposter]

They did a toxicology report on JonBenet that found no drugs in her system, and they did an autopsy that did not indicate penile pentration although her vagina was injured and bled and showed signs of digital penetration. No presence of semen found.

This man is saying a lot of stuff. That doesn't make it true.

I hope Karr is not some sick attention grabber and his confession is not just a big lie.

Not to make light of his perverted past-he does not deserve to be a part of society.

But this quote by his ex-wife is making me nervous:

Karr's ex-wife, Lara Karr, told KGO-TV in California that she was with her former husband in Alabama at the time of JonBenet's killing and she does not believe her former husband was involved in the homicide.

She said her ex-husband spent a lot of time studying the cases of Ramsey and Polly Klaas, who was abducted from her Petaluma, Calif., home and slain in 1993.

Karr on Thursday refused to say what his connection was to the Ramsey family. An attorney for the Ramsey family said Wednesday that Karr once lived near the family in Conyers, Ga.

Is there a DNA match??? I'm afraid to get my hopes up.

[nuisanceposter]

They've haven't matched the DNA yet. Nor have they made a handwriting match. Nor have they proven that Karr was ever in Boulder. They also haven't proven that he was ever inside the Ramsey house other than his own sick confession.

This whole thing sounds shaky. I can't believe they went and arrested him and didn't even have a DNA match yet. They better have some serious evidence placing this guy inside the Ramsey house that night or they're going to look pretty bad.

[nuisanceposter]

Serial pedophile and thank goodness he's been caught. Keep him off the streets and out of the schools.

I wonder if he'll confess to killing any other children. Has he ever been caught doing anything even remotely similar to another child as what was done to JonBenet?

Says he loved her and had sex with her.

W E I R D O!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You don't "have sex" with a six year old.

I'm far from convinced that this is our perp

Possibly. I have no problem granting the criminally insane a death penalty sentence.


It takes a special kind of creepazoid to enjoy child pornography. Then to act out those desires is the final step to hell. No place for them here, not even in prison.

[Hotwater]

It appears as though the confirmation of John Mark Karr as a reasonable suspect in the murder of JonBenet Ramsey is still up in the air.
http://www.crimelibrary.com/news/ori...john_karr.html

I checked it out already on the Internet and I couldn't find any evidence that ties him to the case. Curiouser and curiouser...

--Hh20

IMO - I don't think this is our guy, I think this is a man who was obsessed with the case to the point where he began to believe he did this - he wants to be a part of the case. However, I think the real killer must be bothered by his claim and perhaps this may flush him out. It seems that the person who did this is very arrogant.

[TobyTiger]

Originally posted by nuisanceposter
They've haven't matched the DNA yet. Nor have they made a handwriting match. Nor have they proven that Karr was ever in Boulder. They also haven't proven that he was ever inside the Ramsey house other than his own sick confession.

This whole thing sounds shaky. I can't believe they went and arrested him and didn't even have a DNA match yet. They better have some serious evidence placing this guy inside the Ramsey house that night or they're going to look pretty bad.

I also certainly hope there is some evidence to connect him to the murder. Apparently he was deemed to be a societal risk as he had just obtained employment teaching the 2nd grade at the Intl. School on Tuesday Aug. 15. In addition, there is apparantly an outstanding warrant here in California for him, for possession of child pornography:

Ramsey Suspect's Bay Area Ties

[TobyTiger]

Originally posted by rosyredrobin
I just posted on another thread - was his confession calculated to cast doubt on it? In other words, is he setting himself up for an insanity defense? JMO

That is possible. He is making statements which are inconsistent with the evidence, however, there must be some "evidence" which warranted the arrest. There is also the handwritten ransom note: possibly his handwriting has already been compared with it?

[nuisanceposter]

Expert: 'Do we have a wack-job or a murderer?'
Sakchai Lalit © AP

By Sue Lindsay and Charlie Brennan, Rocky Mountain News
August 17, 2006

Legal and law enforcement experts have begun to express outward skepticism about claims by a teacher that he killed JonBenet Ramsey.

John Mark Karr told reporters in a press conference last night in Thailand he was with the 6-year-old beauty queen when she died nearly 10 years ago. He said the death was accidental, as part of a botched kidnapping effort. When asked how he entered the family’s Boulder home, he declined to comment.

But investigators in Thailand have told the Associated Press that Karr has made several other statements to them, including claims that he picked JonBenet up from school the day she was killed and that he drugged her. JonBenet was on Christmas vacation at the time, so school was not in session, and there was no evidence of drugs found in JonBenet’s body during the autopsy.


http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drm...924161,00.html

[TobyTiger]

Originally posted by rosyredrobin


I just saw a sample of his handwriting on tv....... MO, a possible match.

I didn't see the actual handwriting, however, Lisa Bloom said that she'd compared his "writing style" and saw similarity. Watching Nancy Grace now...

[watson]

Oh, come on. Karr is a case groupie! Everything I"ve read today and yesterday about the 'solving' of this case says this guy is just a case groupie. He wrote many times to Mike Tracey the producer of the 'some intruder did it' documentry's on JonBenet since 2002, and more, Tracey and through him Lou Smit and other team Ramsey members wrote back, for four years!
So far Bolder DA Mary Lacy and authorities in general have given NO corrobation to show this guys confession is anything other than a delusional fantasy!
I can't believe that ANY DA would screw up such a case with a delusional fantasy groupie as a suspect, but it sems to be happening.

[watson]

Does anyone have any info to say that John Karr is anything more than a delusional case groupie arrested by Mary Lacy the new and apparently not experienced Bolder DA, in what might prove to be the biggest prosecutorial mistake of all time?
It's still early, 48 hours after this lead broke, but everything I've seen says this guy is nothing more than a case groupie, who has been writing Mike Tracey (producer of the 'an intruder did it' JonBenet tv programs from 2002 on), Patricia Ramsey, Lou Smit, and other members of 'team Ramsey' for 4 years.
So far Lacy and CO authorities have not breathed 1 shred of corroberating evidence to back up this guys confession. Nothing placing him in CO on xmas day 1996, nothing on how he targeted the Ramseys house, nothing on how he knew Jonbenet, nothing on why he targeted her. So far even the guys own statements seem ridiculous and false. As, when asked for details of the crime he says...............'It would take several hours to describe that (that's as long as it took to committ the whole crime).....it's a very involved series of events' (the real BTK killer was able to describe in detail everyone of his 'kills' this guy can't even begin to describe one?). Also his 'confession' seems suspect because......he doesn't say 'I killed her'.......... but..'I was present at her death'.......... who talks like that about their victim that they purposely killed with a slip knot noose and a crushing blow to the head? It doesn't sound like a real criminal confession.
Like I said it's still early, and it's nearly impossible to believe that Mary Lacy or anyone in public life would go out on a limb on such a case, if they did not have the case sewn up, but so far it seems to be happening. So far this seems like the fake and false arrest of the Walmart cell phone buyers in Michigan. I really hope Mary Lacy has more than this because so far she has nothing but a loser nut saying...'I did it'.

[The R]

Originally posted by Hotwater
It appears as though the confirmation of John Mark Karr as a reasonable suspect in the murder of JonBenet Ramsey is still up in the air.
http://www.crimelibrary.com/news/ori...john_karr.html

I checked it out already on the Internet and I couldn't find any evidence that ties him to the case. Curiouser and curiouser...

--Hh20

Yep...

My first reaction to the arrest was "Thank God they got him"........now I think he isn't the right person and is one of those psychos that confesses to something he didn't do. Whan I saw hin in the news conference my gut feeling was that something wasn't right....seems he just was looking for the TV cameras too much. Hope I'm wrong and he is the guy but it ain't lookin good.


R

If JMK had truly studied her case, written atleast one paper, and discussed it through email for 4 years...why would he throw in the "false facts" that he drugged and molested her? I'm sure not liking what I'm hearing on Greta. Wack-job.

Originally posted by bred
If JMK had truly studied her case, written atleast one paper, and discussed it through email for 4 years...why would he throw in the "false facts" that he drugged and molested her? I'm sure not liking what I'm hearing on Greta. Wack-job.

I'm so glad you mentioned that. I've been waiting all day to hear someone ask that question? Either he didn't do the extensive research, and is just saying what he thinks might have happened, or he didn't do the research, and just wants attention for whatever reason, or he did extensive research, wants attention, but doesn't want to be convicted now that he's in custody, so he's dileberately saying things he knows are incorrect...these suppositions assume that he didn't do it. OR, he DID do it and knows everything, and hopes that by saying things inconsistent with what LE knows to be true, he won't be prosecuted. Of course, if he did do it, his inconsistent statements won't negate a DNA or handwriting match or put him in a different location. BTW, I was flipping between Greta and Dan during that hour, but just saw Greta on O'Reilly's re-play. She actually said that if the DA doesn't have more than what we know, then it should be rethought who should lead the investigation.

[Pennibelle]

Let's all just 'chill'. Time will tell.

I didnt read your whole long post but, I think he is too, I think he is maybe fantasizing that he killed her...sick sob

[Lili007]

Originally posted by rosyredrobin
to set himself up for an insanity defense?

Or just to get out of Thailand... as it has been suggested.

Too early to tell, IMO, but from what I've read, he has made some statements which appear to be inconsistent with the original reports.

One in particular which struck me as suspect was where he said he picked JB up from school and took her to her parents' house basement. But in her statements, JB's mother says she tucked her in that night and prayed with her. So who is lying?

I'm thinking Karr is, because if JonBenet's parents did not see her or tucked her in that night, surely they would have been frantic with worry about where she was and would have called LE.

JMO
Lili

[TuscanDreams]

Originally posted by peachdaquari
I didnt read your whole long post but, I think he is too, I think he is maybe fantasizing that he killed her...sick sob

Like I mentioned, I'm not closed off to the idea that an intruder could have killed JonBenet Ramsey.

I just don't believe THIS guy was the intruder. Nothing fits, other than Michael Tracey, Professor of Colorado, has a bias in this case and turned him in.

[nuisanceposter]

There was no school on Christmas Day in Boulder. JonBenet spent the day at her home with her parents and brother, and later on in the evening they went over to the White's house for a Christmas Party. They didn't come back home until about 8 or 9 pm.

There is no way Karr picked JonBenet up from school when there was no school. It is also completely unlikely that she would allow him to pick her up, not knowing who he is, and unlikely that if he did pick her up that her brother and parents would not notice that she didn't return home from school on time.

Karr said he took her to her parents basement when he picked her up. I have to wonder why a man who wants to kidnap a child wouldn't have a place to take her set up already and would risk being seen or caught by taking the child to her own house. Weren't her parents or brother going to be in the home as well at some point that day, especially considering it was Christmas Day and there was no school or work?

Not to mention the toxicology report and autopsy show no signs of JonBenet having been drugged or raped as Karr claims.

Karr's ex-wife, who divorced him when he was charged with kiddie porn in 2001 and has no reason to lie for him, claims he spent every Christmas with her from 1989 - 2000, including 1996 when JonBenet was killed. She said he was with her and their children that year and not in Boulder at all.

Karr's story does not fit the known version of events. He's not telling the truth.

[floridasweet5]

Originally posted by The R


Yep...

My first reaction to the arrest was "Thank God they got him"........now I think he isn't the right person and is one of those psychos that confesses to something he didn't do. Whan I saw hin in the news conference my gut feeling was that something wasn't right....seems he just was looking for the TV cameras too much. Hope I'm wrong and he is the guy but it ain't lookin good.


R

Yep, me too. I believe he is a groupie that just wants the media limelight.
I hope I'm wrong also............
If not, what a sicko to do this to the family. They have gone through enough. for Jon Benet

[RogerV]

This certainly isn't the first time someone has fallen in love with someone who is already dead, though this time is a little different in that the living party is most likely a pedophile. Kerr has said that he loved JBR I think at least twice. Whatever his motive for telling his bizarre story, he's definitely a loose canon, and a school is the last place he should be.

As for all the criticism that is being heaped on the DA and other authorites in Colorado, remember that they have an obligation to follow ALL leads. It was Kerr himself who upset the investigation by going public with his story. At this point the authorities really have no choice but to bring him back the the US for questioning and DNA testing, even if they've already decided he couldn't possibly be the murderer.

[apskad]

Even if JMK isn't factually responsible for JBR's murder (and a DNA comparison with the scrapings found under JBR's fingernails should be conclusive of that), it's still positive that Karr's employment as a second-grade school teacher has ended. He clearly has an unhealthy obsession with young girls and an obsession with famous murder cases. Isn't it plausible that maybe he was on a downward psychological spiral that might have ended in murder or physical violence to a youngster? Maybe it's good that he will never be anonymous again.
--Apskad

yes he is!
shame on the media for blowing this out of proportion.
i met hundreds like him during our trial (mcmartin)



a parent
JM

Whoa! We're all guilty of researching various cases for various reasons. Hopefully the difference is that we are not obsessive. I've heard 2 mentions about the bear found in JBR's room... could someone please explain more thoroughly?

i don't know if this guy is guilty or not but i do think its possible its a calculated confession.

many people that do this type of crime feel the need to confess, to get it off their chest eventually. by confessing he's done that. its not to get him out of prison in Thailand as some have said. the ONLY reason he was in jail in Thailand was because our LE asked them to detain him until they got there because of the charges in california and because of jon benet. anyway, in answers about the inconsistancies...if this is a calculated confession, giving inconsistancies helps to sent it up for reasonable doubt if it goes to court.

this is a little side note.... a few months back i was reading in and MSN community that has a chatroom attached to it that they had someone came into the chat room and started talking about jon benet. started giving them details that they didn't know about. they didn't know if this guy was a crackpot or anything but they did get in touch with LE in colorado just in case. from what i understand they sent a copy of the conversation and the guys IP addy to the LE. this was back around february i believe. i'd have to go back to check on the date. but what i found strange was the guy said the killer had written to Patsy. then i saw on the news where Karr said he contacted Patsy (at least he thought it was Patsy but apparently it was LE instead). it sorta gave me chills.

I am wondering if his calculated responses are for his own benefit. For someone as well versed with the aspects of this crime as it appears Karr is to state facts that he KNOWS are inconsistant with autopsy reports and sequence of events just doesn't add up. If he is guilty, he is purposely distancing himself from the actual act of killing JBR. I do think he is at the very least a pedophile and a very mentally disturbed man. JMO

[Lili007]

Originally posted by nuisanceposter
There was no school on Christmas Day in Boulder. JonBenet spent the day at her home with her parents and brother, and later on in the evening they went over to the White's house for a Christmas Party. They didn't come back home until about 8 or 9 pm.

There is no way Karr picked JonBenet up from school when there was no school. It is also completely unlikely that she would allow him to pick her up, not knowing who he is, and unlikely that if he did pick her up that her brother and parents would not notice that she didn't return home from school on time.

Karr said he took her to her parents basement when he picked her up. I have to wonder why a man who wants to kidnap a child wouldn't have a place to take her set up already and would risk being seen or caught by taking the child to her own house. Weren't her parents or brother going to be in the home as well at some point that day, especially considering it was Christmas Day and there was no school or work?

Not to mention the toxicology report and autopsy show no signs of JonBenet having been drugged or raped as Karr claims.

Karr's ex-wife, who divorced him when he was charged with kiddie porn in 2001 and has no reason to lie for him, claims he spent every Christmas with her from 1989 - 2000, including 1996 when JonBenet was killed. She said he was with her and their children that year and not in Boulder at all.

Karr's story does not fit the known version of events. He's not telling the truth.

An excellent summary of the discrepancies we've heard so far, buisanceposter. I think it speaks volumes. I agree with you about him, not telling the truth, but I can't quite work it out why he confessed in the first place.

Unless, of course, he wanted out of Thailand (although apparently he wasn't under arrest in Thailand - ? - but just detained at the request of US authorities), or unless he one of those unfortunately many who confess for the sake of it, for some 'thrill' or for other reasons of their own, obscure as they may be to you and I (and most people, IMO).

His story just doesn't seem to 'hold' together, but then I have no idea what else LE have to link him to JonBenet and her murder, so all of this is speculation and questions I have based on what I've heard and read so far.

One thing remains true, regardless of who took her young life so mercilessly, and why - they need to be brought to justice and their punishment needs to fit the crime.

But that's JMO,
Lili

[Lili007]

Originally posted by athy
i don't know if this guy is guilty or not but i do think its possible its a calculated confession.

many people that do this type of crime feel the need to confess, to get it off their chest eventually. by confessing he's done that.

Are you suggesting he may have confessed because he committed 'this sort of crime' against someone else, so he fulfilled his need to get it off his chest by confessing to JonBenet's murder instead, as some sort of "atonement"?

An interesting idea indeed. But if that's the case, why not confess to the original crime?

Or maybe I just misunderstood your meaning.

its not to get him out of prison in Thailand as some have said. the ONLY reason he was in jail in Thailand was because our LE asked them to detain him until they got there because of the charges in california and because of jon benet.

Thanks for clarifying that.

anyway, in answers about the inconsistancies...if this is a calculated confession, giving inconsistancies helps to sent it up for reasonable doubt if it goes to court.

Now there would be a clever move. But I still don't see the reason for confessing in the first place, if that is the case. Unless, as before, he's some sort of macademia who hasn't got anything better to do and wanted a few days of fame or infamy to brighten up his dull life. Or maybe it was just the ultimate fantasy of a pedophile's sick mind. Yick!

this is a little side note.... a few months back i was reading in and MSN community that has a chatroom attached to it that they had someone came into the chat room and started talking about jon benet. started giving them details that they didn't know about. they didn't know if this guy was a crackpot or anything but they did get in touch with LE in colorado just in case. from what i understand they sent a copy of the conversation and the guys IP addy to the LE. this was back around february i believe. i'd have to go back to check on the date. but what i found strange was the guy said the killer had written to Patsy. then i saw on the news where Karr said he contacted Patsy (at least he thought it was Patsy but apparently it was LE instead). it sorta gave me chills.

Then there's the other 'theory' doing the rounds... that Karr might have known or even helped the 'real killer', without actually having done it himself.

Too soon - much more needs to be corroborated or eliminated. IMO, the discrepancies between his statement and known, established facts are the problem.

JMO,
Lili

He most likely appares as a case groupie, but but ... his former wife's testemony is kind of stereotype answer, "...I don't remember him not being there...' or somthing like that. And is this true? Bad Politics this is new to me, that a DNA match already has bin preformed.

[Lili007]

Originally posted by mylipsaresealed
I am wondering if his calculated responses are for his own benefit. For someone as well versed with the aspects of this crime as it appears Karr is to state facts that he KNOWS are inconsistant with autopsy reports and sequence of events just doesn't add up. If he is guilty, he is purposely distancing himself from the actual act of killing JBR. I do think he is at the very least a pedophile and a very mentally disturbed man. JMO

Yes, but as I've just said in another post, why confess at all if he wants to muddy the water with falsehoods? I mean, he wouldn't need to muddy the water if he were in the desert, because there's no water to muddy.

ie, no confession = no need for subterfuge to contradict said confession.

I agree about him being a very disturbed man, as well as a sick pedophile. Maybe both had a lot more to do with his "confession" than the actual crime he confessed to.

JMO,
Lili

Originally posted by athy
i don't know if this guy is guilty or not but i do think its possible its a calculated confession.

its not to get him out of prison in Thailand as some have said. the ONLY reason he was in jail in Thailand was because our LE asked them to detain him until they got there because of the charges in california and because of jon benet. anyway, in answers about the inconsistancies...if this is a calculated confession, giving inconsistancies helps to sent it up for reasonable doubt if it goes to court.

It seems that nobody gets this (the reason he was being detained, and how he wouldn't be in a Thailand jail if it weren't for charges in the states). Even the "experts" are still perpetuating this faulty theory. I hear it over and over and get so frustrated because nobody corrects them. I agree with everything you said, athy.

[nuisanceposter]

Patsy Ramsey said she didn't recognize the white bear, and a woman from a pageant JonBenet had been in recognized it and identified it as coming from that pageant.

[tpop]

I know that a lot can change depending upon new evidence that is discovered and disclosed, but so far it seems that this guy has an overactive fantasy life. It's possible that he actually believes these fantasies as being true. He may not have killed her, but after obsessing over her and the case for some time he now thinks he did b/c he cannot separate fantasy from reality.

About his ex-wife's comments that he was home on that Christmas (which was in Alabama, correct? That's a long way from Colorado), I wonder if there is anyone else who could vouch for that. What about their children? I'm not sure how old they were at that time. Other family members that may have been present? Any photographs? I thought most people took pictures at Christmas, especially if they had children. Has anyone checked flight records to see if he indeed took a flight to Colorado? To take that trip by car would take quite some time, and it would be unlikely that he could do that fast enough to sneak away and then return home without his wife knowing. I also realize that she could be lying to protect him.

I'm also interested in the handwriting analysis, especially since some of the experts were able to rule out everyone they studied with the exception of Patsy.

I read one report that indicated he knew specific information about the Ramsey home, such as seeing a check stub on Mr. Ramsey's desk for $118,000. Well, after that was made public that he had a bonus for that amount, one could guess that he may have a check stub for it, and that it would likely be on his desk. Another thing was details about the staircase and basement. I've seen pictures of both areas of their home online, and perhaps could have made the same obversations myself. So, unless I am missing something, these "obversations" are not very convincing.

So far I am not convinced that he did this, so I'm waiting to see what develops next.

And if he really did kill her, how does one accidentally beat and strangle somebody to death?

Whether or not he did this, he is a SICK PUPPY.

[nuisanceposter]

Originally posted by TuscanDreams


Like I mentioned, I'm not closed off to the idea that an intruder could have killed JonBenet Ramsey.

I just don't believe THIS guy was the intruder. Nothing fits, other than Michael Tracey, Professor of Colorado, has a bias in this case and turned him in.

I agree with all of this. Tracey is well-known to be Ramsey biased and has put out two documentaries in the past four years fingering two other guys as the killer, now he's claiming this guy is the one - and it doesn't look like much investigation went into grabbing this guy Karr. DA Lacy hasn't even interviewed his ex-wife, who claims he was with her that Christmas. No one has any solid evidence Karr was ever in Colorado. I can't wait to see how the DNA test turns out.

Thank you. Now hopefully the media will drop the bear discussions.

[Claudia]

Inside Edition just reported last night that nobody knew where the bear came from....