New WALB story

[smile]

http://www.walb.com/Global/story.asp?S=4688133

[concernedperson]

This is huge! Please pray for a resolve!

I just hope this sense of relief I have isn't short lived. Yes, I think they will find Tara shortly. I can only imagine what her loved ones are feeling right now.

Hugs to anyone who needs them.

Originally posted by Chalandrapi


I feel the same way.

I agree

I pray that this is Tara, but the way things are around Ocilla, you might take your pick of who's in the pond.

[concernedperson]

The resolve from Anita is heartwarming. And if she feels for one minute that most of us don't feel her resolve, please let her pm me and I will be glad to walk her through. She has the strength of a lion but I know she needs hugs. So, cyper hug with lots of emotion. This case is part and parcel from a sister's love for her sister and her mom who can't participate like she would like.Anita is picking up the most part and will need the most part when this is over. She should never be denigrated for her response or her feelings. She is the one with a lost not the others. So, Anita, know that we are there for you.

Originally posted by concernedperson
The resolve from Anita is heartwarming. And if she feels for one minute that most of us don't feel her resolve, please let her pm me and I will be glad to walk her through. She has the strength of a lion but I know she needs hugs. So, cyper hug with lots of emotion. This case is part and parcel from a sister's love for her sister and her mom who can't participate like she would like.Anita is picking up the most part and will need the most part when this is over. She should never be denigrated for her response or her feelings. She is the one with a lost not the others. So, Anita, know that we are there for you.

Always no matter what.

[NancynNC]

Now these are some great people...

snip'

The landowners where that pond is located say if the divers don't find anything, they'll be happy to drain it, in order to do whatever they can to help find Tara.

I pray there is a resolve to this.

For Tara

[Babes]

Are these same dogs brought to the burnt house that hit also on the baby's smell?

Originally posted by GeneralLee
What is the margin of error with cadaver dogs?
Are they trained to always be CORRECT in their hits on areas?


I'd like to know from someone like Ron, with his SAR dog, or someone in LE who can elaborate.

I'd like to know what the chances are that 3 dogs, possibly 4, will hit on the same place at separate times, and be wrong?

If the cadaver dogs hit 3 or 4 times in one spot, what lengths are gone to in order to find out the origin of the scent they pick up?


****If a cadaver dog hits on an area and NO body is found there, how does LE determine if the dog is WRONG or if the body WAS there, but moved?

My husband is LE andwe used to have a K9 for drugs and other drugs stuff like that. Cadivier dogs usually are pretty correct especially with 4 dogs and if they bring in diferrent cadivier dogs at different times then the chances of the dogs being off is almost 0%

Hi GenL. That's a great point - because (according to Dr. G), the perp returned TWICE to T's house. Whomever is responsible appears to devote time and attention to ensure his actions and motives are completely disguised.

Cleaning up (or staging) evidence inside Tara's house is now apparent - we're led to believe the perp returned not once, but twice. And inside, no concrete evidence or DNA and her clothes were on hangers on her divan. This *may* have been staged to look as though Tara was preparing to go away or flee.

The perp may have done (or is continuing to do) the same thing outside of her house and purposely confusing or misleading the investigation. Widespread hits, scenes, suspicious events - all creating utter confusion.

In 5 months, there has been plenty of opportunity to move/switch things around. If this is the case, the perp is clearly familiar with LE investigations and knows (somehow - from the inside) what they look for - and therefore may plan to remain 'one step ahead'.

Usually something happens that forces the perp to trip up. Let's hope that fall is not too far off.

Originally posted by Justice4Tara
Thank you SMILE for posting this. It's been a productive weekend, despite those that doubt it. The end is near.

When every thing is put before them and their hands are behind their backs in cuffs. I for one believe that no matter what happens the people who care will have to push for justice once the perps are incarcerated.

[Saunterer]

WFXL -- There are new developments in the search for missing Ocilla teacher Tara Faye Grinstead. The search continued over the weekend and dogs made a breaking discovery Sunday just ten miles from Tara’s house. A team of divers was at that sight Monday to search for what they believe to be the body of Grinstead. Divers said the search was a difficult one, with water visibility being “basically zero” and the bottom of the pond reaching thirty feet. The dive will continue Tuesday in Fitzgerald, and if needed, authorities say the pond will be drained.

http://www.wfxl.com/

[Aussie]

From this article looks like they have found nothing


shttp://walb.com/Global/story.asp?S=4693663o far.

This must be so frustrating for the family!!!

[Saunterer]

Originally posted by Aussie
From this article looks like they have found nothing


shttp://walb.com/Global/story.asp?S=4693663o far.

This must be so frustrating for the family!!!

http://walb.com/Global/story.asp?S=4693663

[ipswitch]

Originally posted by Babes
Are these same dogs brought to the burnt house that hit also on the baby's smell?

I was under the impression that it was the same dog TEAM, not sure about the actual dogs, but the team of handlers was the same.

[Babes]

Originally posted by ipswitch


I was under the impression that it was the same dog TEAM, not sure about the actual dogs, but the team of handlers was the same.

hmmm how many dogs do they have in their team? The last search they said there are 3 dogs hitting on the same pond but there are 1 or 2 dogs i guess who hit on the baby's smell at the burnt house.

[Babes]

The landowners where that pond is located say if the divers don't find anything, they'll be happy to drain it, in order to do whatever they can to help find Tara.

http://www.walb.com/Global/story.asp?S=4688133&nav=5kZQ

Ocilla -- Over the weekend, search crews canvassed land and checked 24 ponds in Ben Hill County. Cadaver dogs indicated they found something suspicious in one of them, so a dive team thoroughly checked it Monday.

They found no signs of Grinstead, and decided it will not be necessary to drain the pond.

http://www.walb.com/Global/story.asp?S=4693663&nav=5kZQ




so why not drain it if the landowners are willing to drain it if divers dont find anything.

Question: IF different dogs hit on the same spot in the same pond, it means SOMETHING is there, right? So if not Tara, WHO or WHAT? Aren't these dogs trained to sniff out 'cadavers' only? So something had to be there for them to 'hit' on it......

[ipswitch]

Angie (can't remember her last name) was one of the handlers on the burnt house, and WALB mentioned her name as being one of the ones at the lake. SO, again, I am under the impression that they are the same team. Take it as you'd like.

So Angie Batten WAS *involved* with both!!!!

Thank you for posting her confirmaiton.

Originally posted by Justice4Tara

Here is a statement directly from Angie Batten, which she requested be posted on this board to avoid the continued confusion over the dogs: AND I QUOTE: "I did work the burned house with my two cadaver dogs and two other cadaver dogs from our team. NONE of our dogs, and I repeat NONE of our dogs hit at the burned house. My dogs and our teams dogs, as did dogs from THREE SEPARATE TEAMS, hit on the two ponds." Angie Batten, Dogs South. K-9 Search & Rescue.

If you want to confirm this with her, as I'm sure *some* of you will, she will verify this statement.

Now, can we move on from the subject of whose dogs sniffed what?

[fsbiii]

These cadaver dogs are getting more hits than the Yankees.

Let's see if we can work this out.

I've heard that a dog or dogs "hit" on a scent at the burned house before it was cleared away. I'm not talking about the early "baby smell" hit either. This information concerned a "hit" near broken glass, perhaps from the windshield of the Ford Expedition.

I've also heard that the dogs "hit" on the pond near the burned house, and more recently "hit" on this pond in Ben Hill County.

Someone needs to really explain the science in this to me because it seems like there should be some cadavers popping up somewhere. These dogs could be hitting traces of cadavers, right? I.E., bodies that have been moved?

[concernedperson]

Originally posted by fsbiii
These cadaver dogs are getting more hits than the Yankees.

Let's see if we can work this out.

I've heard that a dog or dogs "hit" on a scent at the burned house before it was cleared away. I'm not talking about the early "baby smell" hit either. This information concerned a "hit" near broken glass, perhaps from the windshield of the Ford Expedition.

I've also heard that the dogs "hit" on the pond near the burned house, and more recently "hit" on this pond in Ben Hill County.

Someone needs to really explain the science in this to me because it seems like there should be some cadavers popping up somewhere. These dogs could be hitting traces of cadavers, right? I.E., bodies that have been moved?

That is what I believe is happening.....trace at the burned house area and ditto on the moving of a body.

[NancynNC]

Originally posted by Sassy
Well, I understand they were not the same dogs or the same team. Live scent dogs and cadaver dogs were used so someone else "in the know" might clarify for you.

A forensic dive team from Lowndes County and teams using cadaver dogs have been searching a pond on the border of Ben Hill and Irwin counties. Three dog teams have been used in the search including teams from Jesup, Kingsland and Florida. The dogs “hit” on the pond near the county line over the weekend, meaning that the dogs found something, possibly a body, that drew their interest.

[ipswitch]

3/27/2006 http://www.walb.com/Global/story.asp?S=4688133

"We had three dogs yesterday, different dogs, that actually hit on this pond. We took them out in the boats, and they all hit, pretty well the same place, in the boats which is right behind me now, and that dog hit also," said Ben Hill County Sheriff Bob McLemore

"And this morning, Angie brought another dog in and that dog hit also"

And according to eyewitnesses (sorry, no link) Angie WAS at the burned house.

So, she was at both sites. Her dogs might not have searched the burned house (according to her) but other eyewitnesses said she WAS there.

Sorry if I'm behind in posting this, but I was *researching* all the facts.

[NancynNC]

We welcome you, Angie.

[Saunterer]

While Angie is composing, I was wondering if she or anyone else reading this knew: If a septic system malfunctions and raw sewage reaches a pond (or worse yet, if raw sewage is piped to a pond), would a cadaver dog alert to it as it would to a body? TIA ... Oh, and BTW, water contamination is common all over rural America IMO.

[NancynNC]

Angie,
I have a question about these special dogs. Aren't there water cadaver dogs? Different than on land?

I have been following the Ray Gricar disappearance and they brought in a so called water cadaver dog to search the river. It rode in the front of a boat down the river. It found nothing.
Does this sound logical to you?

[Saunterer]

"We at Dogs South use track/trailing & air scent search dogs, we also have a cadaver search dog. Cadaver search dogs can locate human remains in water or buried under ground or rubble. A cadaver dog can locate human remains that are a few hours old to several years old."

http://www.orgsites.com/ga/dogs-south/_pgg2.php3

Interesting web site IMO.

[concernedperson]

Excellent, Angie. Thanks so much for the clarifications. What you have posted is pretty much what I have researched and it does tell about the handling and training of the dogs. You are a good and honest trainer and your input here is greatly appreciated.

I won't ask any questions because your post explains everything to me. Kudos to you and your husband for what you do! I know families all over owe you a big hug for giving them some resolve in their cases.

[Atok]

Very informative, thank you.

No hits by your dogs at the burned out house/pond area.

Yes there was a hit at the recent pond search, but divers have determined no need to drain this pond at this time. Owners may choose to drain pond of their own accord.

Thank you Angie.

[ipswitch]

Angie,

As I said in the following quote, you were there. After researching and talking to an "eyewitness" I didn't say again that you assisted, just that you were there.

Yes, in my original post I thought you actually handled some of the dogs at the burnt house.

I just wanted to make myself clear that my *most recent* post just said that "eyewitnesses" said that you were THERE.

I am one who will own up to my mistakes. That is why I posted the following quotes. I will fully admit that after I researched it fully the assumed facts were off.

Also, in my original post I said I was of the UNDERSTANDING that it was the same team. Hence why I researched it further.

I am sorry for any confusion.

ipswitch

Originally posted by ipswitch
3/27/2006 http://www.walb.com/Global/story.asp?S=4688133

"We had three dogs yesterday, different dogs, that actually hit on this pond. We took them out in the boats, and they all hit, pretty well the same place, in the boats which is right behind me now, and that dog hit also," said Ben Hill County Sheriff Bob McLemore

"And this morning, Angie brought another dog in and that dog hit also"

And according to eyewitnesses (sorry, no link) Angie WAS at the burned house.

So, she was at both sites. Her dogs might not have searched the burned house (according to her) but other eyewitnesses said she WAS there.

Sorry if I'm behind in posting this, but I was *researching* all the facts.

[concernedperson]

Originally posted by Atok
Very informative, thank you.

No hits by your dogs at the burned out house/pond area.

Yes there was a hit at the recent pond search, but divers have determined no need to drain this pond at this time. Owners may choose to drain pond of their own accord.

Thank you Angie.

Her dogs got a hit at the pond at the burned out house not the house itself.

[Atok]

Got it now, thanks CP!

[concernedperson]

That is why these dogs are God given to us humans. The smell of different chemical compounds is not quite the same as human decomposition although certain chemicals are part of the process. I am sure Angie can explain it better than I can.

[concernedperson]

Originally posted by MATTHEWsevenone
Does anyone know if DNA or any sort of chemical process exists for water that could determine dna in water

what i am wondering --

If a dog hits in a body of water. Ia there any sort of chemical test that could definitely or at least help isolate whether human DNA is present causing the hits?

Are we that sophisticated yet with scientistic analysis? Or is the sample area just too large?

From what I understand it is human decompositon not DNA. DNA can be extracted from the smallest piece of bone or tooth. Mitochrondial DNA can be extracted from a hair. The dogs are trained for one thing....human decomp.

[concernedperson]

Originally posted by MATTHEWsevenone


NO ANGIE - I can see where both would be used. The dog to find and confirm the location and the DNA to verify and possibly help to isolate the findings.
DNA testing is expensive. IT would have to be more cost effective to use dogs for stage one~

If the technology even exists.

DNA is not part of the dogs discovery. Human decompositon is. DNA is used to identify the body and part of the whole investigation. The dogs are early investigators to point the way for future investigations.

[NancynNC]

Originally posted by HRD
Well have done all that I think I can in reguards to helping everyone understand cadaver dogs. I am going back to the real world of searching for folks, dead or alive and signing off for I hope awhile.
Angie

Thanks so much and please join us again when you have time....

[Saunterer]

Originally posted by Justice4Tara
Many people do not know that these dog teams are supported by voluntary donations. If any of you would like to send a donation in Tara's name, or in memory of another, no matter how small, it would be greatly appreciated by them I am sure. Just go to the website and read about these amazing animals and what they are capable of. An address to send a donation is there, along with info on how to volunteer to help this cause. Some of you have PM'd me about this because of my previous post about Angie. I am not affiliated with Angie, but totally applaud and support her work and the work of the other dog handlers and trainers. Amazing isn't a big enough word for what they do. Just read the website.

http://www.orgsites.com/ga/dogs-south/index.html

[concernedperson]

I am going to buy a lottery ticket. Then I will donate to this cause and other missing person's causes. I would donate now if I could and I am sure people say that all the time. But, I am serious. I spend a lot of time looking for resolve and if I had money it wouldn't be as much as an issue. And, seekeroftruth, if this offends you, bite me.