Good News!..Debbie Mahaffy is speaking out again!

[Hope MT]

This is certainly good news!...One of the most outspoken, well educated and well versed victims advocates, Debbie Mahaffy (Leslie's loving Mom) is beginning to speak out again and educate our young people as to the Bernardo/Homolka case.

Go Debbie!

click here for recent article

Thanks for the link, Hope! Great info and perhaps more to come!!

[VictorianLady]

I would like to encourage you Mrs. Mahaffy, to keep speaking, please keep the memory of your angel alive in the publics eye.
Let not her death be totally in vain, keep the memory alive as her tormentor is walking about free as we speak right now.
Just wanted to share that with you as well, I do not in any way mean to offend.
God bless you.

I, too, commend Mrs. Mahaffy for speaking out for victims rights.

Paul and Karla needed Texas justice - swift Execution with short appeals process. I just cannot understand why Karla got such a sweetheart of a deal when there was so much evidence against her It's only a matter of time before she reoffends. Karla enjoyed the crimes as much as Paul and neither know the meaning of remorse. Karla should have received a life sentence. At least, in the States, she would have to register as a sex offender.

[~kaRN]

I agree bellybutton. Paul Bernardo was only a rapist until he met Karla. Let's hope karma races to correct the injustice of allowing her to continue to draw breath. Poetic justice is worth the wait.

MHO

Originally posted by ~kaRN
I agree bellybutton. Paul Bernardo was only a rapist until he met Karla. Let's hope karma races to correct the injustice of allowing her to continue to draw breath. Poetic justice is worth the wait.

MHO

I only hope that Karla " gets her's" without her hurtiing another human being.

Unfortunately, this is not so. Karla was never charged, ergo never convicted, of ANY sex crime. She doesn't have to register squat! Mind-blowing, but true.

Originally posted by Shelby428z
Unfortunately, this is not so. Karla was never charged, ergo never convicted, of ANY sex crime. She doesn't have to register squat! Mind-blowing, but true.

I know, unbelievable. I am a little under the weather this weekend and while indulging in many hours of tv watching I saw MSNBC Investigates show on these two monsters.
They mentioned what you posted...Karla is not required to register as a sex offender because she was only convicted of manslaughter.

Originally posted by Hope MT
This is certainly good news!...One of the most outspoken, well educated and well versed victims advocates, Debbie Mahaffy (Leslie's loving Mom) is beginning to speak out again and educate our young people as to the Bernardo/Homolka case.

Go Debbie!

click here for recent article

This is going to sound incredibly rude and callous and anyone who knows me on this board, understands that I'm sympathetic and understanding.

When this incident happened I was very young and I can remember one specific thing that shocked me. That being the fact that Leslie Mahaffy was locked out of her house in the wee hours of the morning and a sick Paul Bernardo was there lurking and waiting. Had she had access to her own home, this would not have happened that night. I certainly hope that Debbie is urging parents to take another form of punishment than locking the doors to your house so your child cannot get in.

I simply cannot forgive her for that, nor can I forget it after all of these years. When I think of punishing my daughter, this horrific indicient ALWAYS comes back to me.

Originally posted by trina1972


This is going to sound incredibly rude and callous and anyone who knows me on this board, understands that I'm sympathetic and understanding.

When this incident happened I was very young and I can remember one specific thing that shocked me. That being the fact that Leslie Mahaffy was locked out of her house in the wee hours of the morning and a sick Paul Bernardo was there lurking and waiting. Had she had access to her own home, this would not have happened that night. I certainly hope that Debbie is urging parents to take another form of punishment than locking the doors to your house so your child cannot get in.

I simply cannot forgive her for that, nor can I forget it after all of these years. When I think of punishing my daughter, this horrific indicient ALWAYS comes back to me.

Sadly, I think she will regret locking her daughter out until the day she dies. I completely understand why she did it. It is a difficult position to be in when your young daughter doesn't come home on time and doesn't call.

I've been there, sitting in the dark, waiting for hours many times.

All her daughter had to do was ring the doorbell, but she chose not to, because she didn't want to wake her mother.

I wouldn't advise anyone to lock a child out.

Originally posted by Anthea Delano



Sadly, I think she will regret locking her daughter out until the day she dies. I completely understand why she did it. It is a difficult position to be in when your young daughter doesn't come home on time and doesn't call.

I've been there, sitting in the dark, waiting for hours many times.

All her daughter had to do was ring the doorbell, but she chose not to, because she didn't want to wake her mother.

I wouldn't advise anyone to lock a child out.

Agreed it is very tough. It's very funny how we remember specifics of our childhood. And whenever people talk about this case, all I can think about is, what if she didn't lock her out.

I can't understand why she did it. Never in my born days have I faced a locked door upon my arrival. And I was not an innocent sweet teenage girl. I was rebelious and down right horrible to my parents. However, in light of the case, I remember saying to my mother "Mom, would you ever lock me out?" and she said "You are a very troubled teenager and I wish I could help you out. But no, I would never lock the door on any of my kids."

I actually applaud you however, for sitting in the dark, waiting for hours. That's what a parent should do and the punishment comes when she walks through that door. Boy, I had my share of punishments.

Like I said, very callous and horrible to say, but I just can't stand people making her out to be a martyr, when she too has made her own mistakes.

[goatgirl]

~~For Debbie Mahaffy~~

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Debbie assumed Leslie would have her key with her. It was only the next morning, when she looked in Leslies room that she saw Leslies house key laying on her dresser.

Originally posted by Acorn
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Debbie assumed Leslie would have her key with her. It was only the next morning, when she looked in Leslies room that she saw Leslies house key laying on her dresser.

In all of the readings I have done, I have never seen that documented. However, it could very well be the case, I've just never read it.

I am reading Invisible Darkness by Stephen Williams. I reviewed the timeline the night before her disappearance. A friend of her's wouldn't allow Leslie to sleep there because of previous incidents. Leslie was too scared to knock on the doors or windows. She couldn't believe that she was locked out of the house.

Originally posted by trina1972


In all of the readings I have done, I have never seen that documented.

Maybe I didn't read it but I know for a fact that Debbie Mahaffy said, on MSNBC Investigates, that the next morning when she looked in Leslies room, she saw her key on the dresser. That episode, To Have and to Kill, just aired again this past Saturday and I watched it for like the 20th time.

[Claudia]

Originally posted by trina1972


In all of the readings I have done, I have never seen that documented. However, it could very well be the case, I've just never read it.

I am reading Invisible Darkness by Stephen Williams. I reviewed the timeline the night before her disappearance. A friend of her's wouldn't allow Leslie to sleep there because of previous incidents. Leslie was too scared to knock on the doors or windows. She couldn't believe that she was locked out of the house.

if that is the case, then obviously it wasn't common practice to lock the doors while leslie was out, and saying that she didn't realize leslie didn't have her key is an excuse her mother is using to ease some of her guilt she no doubt feels.
you couldn't PAY me to lock my son out of my house. EVER.

Originally posted by Claudia


if that is the case, then obviously it wasn't common practice to lock the doors while leslie was out, and saying that she didn't realize leslie didn't have her key is an excuse her mother is using to ease some of her guilt she no doubt feels.
you couldn't PAY me to lock my son out of my house. EVER.

Me either.

[VictorianLady]

We don't know exactly what happened in Leslie's home, we don't live there, we were not there, so leave the stone throwing out when it comes to victims family. Unless of course you have walked in Mrs. Mahaffy's shoes and have yourself lost a child, then for the love of god, please stop this. It's all easy for us to say "I'll never lock my child out" but what if a situation comes up that is beyond your control? are you ready to eat your words? Let us not judge. Let us pray, and let us be informed of a very real evil that may be stalking the young and innocent as we are writing this right now!

Too many times in my own community I see hypocrisy alive and vibrant, I believe it to be a waste of energy when we could be advocating for what is best for ALL OUR childrens safety. Children have a right to grow up, have children, live their lives fully, these girls never had the chance, blaming the mother for something she obviously regrets, and reminding her when we should be supportive is not very christian (I use christian, as christians should love and help one another)

If any, the blame should rest on the perverted demons that snuffed her life out. Mrs. Mahaffy lost a child she carried for nine months, and raised to a young lady, alot of us don't know how this feels, and quite frankly hope we never find out.
Just my opinion.

[northernrflxn]

Originally posted by VictorianLady
Too many times in my own community I see hypocrisy alive and vibrant

It's alive and vibrant on this board when you rail against casting stones at those in whose shoes we haven't walked, and then turn around and do just that.

[mabel]

Originally posted by northernrflxn


It's alive and vibrant on this board when you rail against casting stones at those in whose shoes we haven't walked, and then turn around and do just that.

Debbie in her wildest dreams could not see the evil that would befall her beautiful daughter. Just think about the sorrow she must experience with her decision to lock Leslie out. Leslie crossed paths with two demons. I never knew that Leslie was locked out until I read it here. Debbie is doing her best by being an activist and alerting other parents and teens. This a link that clarifies the circumstances of Leslie's abduction. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leslie_Mahaffy

[northernrflxn]

Originally posted by mabel

Debbie in her wildest dreams could not see the evil that would befall her beautiful daughter. Just think about the sorrow she must experience with her decision to lock Leslie out. Leslie crossed paths with two demons. I never knew that Leslie was locked out until I read it here. Debbie is doing her best by being an activist and alerting other parents and teens. This a link that clarifies the circumstances of Leslie's abduction. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leslie_Mahaffy

I am intimately aquainted with the circumstances of Leslie's abduction, and don't need any clarification. I have tremendous empathy for Debbie Mahaffey and her unimaginable loss, and I have deep admiration for those times that she has been incredibly brave. I hope very much that she has come to see what the rest of us do: she carries no responsibility whatsoever for what happened to her daughter.

That being said, she is a human being, and in my opinion she has not been perfect in her activism and public response. I take particular exception to her telling a group of highschool students during a formal speaking engagement that Karla Homolka 'is not capable of remorse'. Mrs. Mahaffey cannot be expected to be a fair and accurate judge of that. It oversteps her public role and lends credence to the completely innappropriate actions of the government and media on Homolka's release last July.

While Mrs. Mahaffey harbours understandable rage toward the people responsible for her daughter's death, we in society have an obligation to understand that Leslie did not cross path with two demons. She crossed paths with two human beings, one of whom who was judged less harshly for well documented reasons, and judged to be suitable for reintegration into society.

I can't see how calling Karla Homolka a demon on some message board, probably without about 98% of the available information you'd need to make a reliable assessment of her, furthers any good cause at all.

[mabel]

Originally posted by northernrflxn


I am intimately aquainted with the circumstances of Leslie's abduction, and don't need any clarification. I have tremendous empathy for Debbie Mahaffey and her unimaginable loss, and I have deep admiration for those times that she has been incredibly brave. I hope very much that she has come to see what the rest of us do: she carries no responsibility whatsoever for what happened to her daughter.

That being said, she is a human being, and in my opinion she has not been perfect in her activism and public response. I take particular exception to her telling a group of highschool students during a formal speaking engagement that Karla Homolka 'is not capable of remorse'. Mrs. Mahaffey cannot be expected to be a fair and accurate judge of that. It oversteps her public role and lends credence to the completely innappropriate actions of the government and media on Homolka's release last July.

While Mrs. Mahaffey harbours understandable rage toward the people responsible for her daughter's death, we in society have an obligation to understand that Leslie did not cross path with two demons. She crossed paths with two human beings, one of whom who was judged less harshly for well documented reasons, and judged to be suitable for reintegration into society.

I can't see how calling Karla Homolka a demon on some message board, probably without about 98% of the available information you'd need to make a reliable assessment of her, furthers any good cause at all.

Please include me in as asupporter of Debbie Mahaffey.
I have only the greatest empathy for Mrs. Mahaffey and other parents, relatives,and friends of the victims who have suffered tremendously with the knowledge that their children died being tortured and brutalized. Much of it has been captured on videotape. You're right about not calling them demons. They did engage in extremely inhumane and cruel behavior. Please read the book "Karla" which is also well documented on why she was given a more lenient sentence. It's availible as an ebook. Now that Kathy Homolka is out of prison it is unproductive to hound her. As far as your implication that I know only know 2% of the info to make an honest assessment I didn't join this message board to be scolded and dismissed by you. It's a cliche, but debate is what this message board is all about.

[northernrflxn]

Originally posted by mabel
Now that Kathy Homolka is out of prison it is unproductive to hound her. As far as your implication that I know only know 2% of the info to make an honest assessment I didn't join this message board to be scolded and dismissed by you.

Thats Karla Homolka, not 'Kathy'. Until I have some reason to do otherwise, I think I'll stick with my 2% assessment.

[mabel]

Originally posted by northernrflxn


Thats Karla Homolka, not 'Kathy'. Until I have some reason to do otherwise, I think I'll stick with my 2% assessment.

I wish you well.

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally posted by mabel

<snipped>

As far as your implication that I know only know 2% of the info to make an honest assessment I didn't join this message board to be scolded and dismissed by you. It's a cliche, but debate is what this message board is all about.

Good for you Mabel! Save yourself a lot of aggravation. This Poster is notorious for "scolding and dismissing" a Poster when you don't agree with her!

JMO and MOO!!

[mabel]

[quote]Originally posted by 2L8 4A D8


Good for you Mabel! Save yourself a lot of aggravation. This Poster is notorious for "scolding and dismissing" a Poster when you don't agree with her!

JMO and MOO!! [/QUOTE
tnx so much. I will.

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally posted by Elsie
You don't have one shred of empathy for Debbie Mahaffey.

<snipped>

Welcome Elsie! You are correct, she doesn't have one shred of empathy for both Mothers because she honestly believes that Karla was just as much a victim of Paul's as was Leslie and Kristen. She is one piece of work let me tell you!

JMO and MOO!!

[northernrflxn]

Originally posted by Elsie
Karla Homolka isn't capable of remorse. If you watch a child beg for mercy whilst they are being tortured and raped once, it would be disgusting. If you watch a child beg for mercy whilst they are being raped, pissed on teeth knocked out one by one and then you rape them also. Then you watch their life snuffed out.

Then you watch as another child get dragged in and begs for mercy. ( Oh and by the way you rent a movie one night and eat a box of chocolates at the same time as the child is screaming in another part of the house as she is sodomized (again) in a particularly painful and gruesome way.

The notion that the only thing that stands between a human being and horrible acts is a conscience is naive and foolish. Read up on the Milgram experiment:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

And a victim being brutalized by having teeth knocked out one by one? Complete fiction. While the girls suffered tremendously, no victim had teeth knocked out. Like the rest of the ranters, you clearly are not familiar with the facts of this case.

Then you spend 12 years in prison and never once no never once express one solitary word of remorse to those mothers, whose lives are over (for the want of a better word).

Visit the following page and view the interview with Dr. Louis Morissette in the video section. You'll hear him refer to the fact that Karla Homolka expressed a wish to write to the families early on to apologize and was turned down by them, as was their right. More pesky facts.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...ub=CTVNewsAt11

Maybe Leslie Mahaffey has had some counseling on the mind set of psychiopathic, sociopathic personalities. Maybe just a small maybe the woman has been for more help than you and I could ever imagine. Just maybe along the way during these 15 or so agonizing years she has been able to along with the help of many psychiatric professionals draw the extremely accurate conclusion BASED ON MASSIVE EVIDENCE SUBSTANTIATED OVER A LONG PERIOD OF TIME. that Homolka doesn't give a damn about anyone but herself and never will.

The voluminous psychiatric evidence is OVERWHELMINGLY in favour of the fact that Homolka is neither a psychopath nor a present danger to society. Why don't you do some actual research.

Take your righteous indignation and place it where it belongs. I wonder how sorry you would feel about Mahaffey's statement if someone watched whilst your daughter was tortured, raped, pissed on, teeth knocked out, abused and then they watched her begging for mercy on a video for their entertainment.

Take YOUR righteous indignation and place it where it belongs. Right here on the CTV boards! Where nobody has to actually think or do any actual research. They just have to emote and spew salacious pseudofacts.

I cannot imagine being Mrs. Mahaffey, and I feel as much empathy for her as I've ever felt for anyone in my life. I truly don't know how she survived. If I were her, I would likely despise Karla Homolka for the rest of my life. But because I'm not her, I get to understand that you can't make the very personal grief and rage of the mother of a murdered child public policy.

[northernrflxn]

Originally posted by 2L8 4A D8


Welcome Elsie! You are correct, she doesn't have one shred of empathy for both Mothers because she honestly believes that Karla was just as much a victim of Paul's as was Leslie and Kristen. She is one piece of work let me tell you!

JMO and MOO!!

I have never said anything even remotely like "Karla was just as much a victim of Paul's as was Leslie and Kristen." Ever.

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally posted by northernrflxn

I have never said anything even remotely like "Karla was just as much a victim of Paul's as was Leslie and Kristen." Ever.

Oh excuse me! Now you're just being petty. Let me correct my post: According to Northernrflxn "Karla was also a victim of Paul's!" GMAB!!

JMO and MOO!!

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally posted by northernrflxn

<snipped>

Take YOUR righteous indignation and place it where it belongs. Right here on the CTV boards! Where nobody has to actually think or do any actual research. They just have to emote and spew salacious pseudofacts.

<snipped>

Geez! I can't believe that you are still constantly posting to us idiots here on the CTV Boards. I was hoping that you would find better things to do, but I guess NOT!

JMO and MOO!!

[jenny19socal]

Elsie:
So because some Dr. guy says that Karla is not a pyschopath or a danger to society, we should just agree? You suggest that we should stick to the facts. OK, fine. According to what I have read, Karla actively participated in the murder of her sister, and the abduction and torture of Kristen. So I guess she was under the evil spell of Paul, right? And thus had no responsibility, how convenient. According to the Pyscho babble that you apparently believe, you probably think most murderers should go free becuase they probably came from broken homes, were abused, etc. Nobody's ever to blame, and we wonder why our society is in trouble.

[2L8 4A D8]

<snipped>

Orginally posted by northernrflxn

The notion that the only thing that stands between a human being and horrible acts is a conscience is naive and foolish. Read up on the Milgram experiment:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

And a victim being brutalized by having teeth knocked out one by one? Complete fiction. While the girls suffered tremendously, no victim had teeth knocked out. Like the rest of the ranters, you clearly are not familiar with the facts of this case.

Visit the following page and view the interview with Dr. Louis Morissette in the video section. You'll hear him refer to the fact that Karla Homolka expressed a wish to write to the families early on to apologize and was turned down by them, as was their right. More pesky facts.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...ub=CTVNewsAt11

The voluminous psychiatric evidence is OVERWHELMINGLY in favour of the fact that Homolka is neither a psychopath nor a present danger to society. Why don't you do some actual research.

Take YOUR righteous indignation and place it where it belongs. Right here on the CTV boards! Where nobody has to actually think or do any actual research. They just have to emote and spew salacious pseudofacts.

I cannot imagine being Mrs. Mahaffey, and I feel as much empathy for her as I've ever felt for anyone in my life. I truly don't know how she survived. If I were her, I would likely despise Karla Homolka for the rest of my life. But because I'm not her, I get to understand that you can't make the very personal grief and rage of the mother of a murdered child public policy.

Hi Jenny and Welcome! Your post should have been directed to Northernrflxn. She is the one who posted the above, not Elsie. Just wanted you to know this.

JMO and MOO!!

I'm not an expert on the Homolka/Bernardo murder case.However I am a former victim of DV.My husband attacked me with a wooden baseball bat and almost killed me back in 1993.He got away with it because he would not allow me to call the Police or seek medical attention.I divorced him but was left permanently disabled as a result of the attack.
I do not think that anyone who has not been themself a victim of DV can understand the kind of manipulation and mind control that goes on in those relationships.It is really beyond most people's capacity to understand.And unless you have a sympathetic family or other resources it can be very difficult to get out of.Threats,intimidation,torture and mind control are the hallmarks of these relationships.

I feel that Paul Bernardo was the main perpetrator in the murders of Tammy,Leslie and Kristen.He initiated them and carried them out.There is no disputing the evidence that Karla was severely abused by him for years.Or that he exerted mind control over her.She was not in my opinion capable psychologically of defending either herself or Bernardo's other victims.Not that I absolve her totally of responsibility.I do think at some point she might have intervened.But she was very much a victim of Bernardo's sociopathic sickness and I do have sympathy for her.

This case is yet another horribly sad example of the evil that DV wrecks on our society.Perhaps if someone had intervened earlier in that twisted relationship the innocent lives taken might have been spared.I have the greatest sympathy for the victims and their families.

Lanna

Karla enjoyed the torture,and murder of those girls just as much as Paul did...maybe even more.Just because she is a female doesn't mean that she is not evil...she enjoyed killing them.No one will ever make me believe otherwise.

I don't want to hear about her being a battered wife.She had options,she was NOT being held captive,and she herself had drugged her friend so that Paul could rape her...for a wedding present.

What about her baby sister? Was she forced to help with that rape? NO!!! She was willing,and able.This isn't about her being battered,and being a victim.She was,and will always be just as guilty as Paul.

There are no excuses for what Karla participated in. He would have had to kill me, I could never have done what she did. mo

[2L8 4A D8]

I am so tired of all of the Karla Bleeding Hearts. Victim of DV? GMAB! Karla had to be taken from her home by her parents kicking and screaming to the ER. Even then, she wasn't going to do anything about anything. God only knows how long the madness would have continued had her parents not FINALLY intervened.

JMO and MOO!!

You all are of course entitled to your opinions.Just as I am entitled to mine.I try to have respect for others and be tolerant of viewpoints other than my own.Even on subjects I feel strongly about.I will say again.I have the greatest sympathy for the victims of this crime and their families.I also have sympathy for Karla Holmoka,her family and all other victims of domestic violence.Unless you have been in that situation you have no idea what it's like.I assume none of you ever have been?

Lanna

[2L8 4A D8]

Originally posted by Lanna89
You all are of course entitled to your opinions.Just as I am entitled to mine.I try to have respect for others and be tolerant of viewpoints other than my own.Even on subjects I feel strongly about.I will say again.I have the greatest sympathy for the victims of this crime and their families.I also have sympathy for Karla Holmoka,her family and all other victims of domestic violence.Unless you have been in that situation you have no idea what it's like.I assume none of you ever have been?

Lanna

Yes, I am entitled to my opinion. Thank you. With all due respect to you, no, I have never been in a DV situation. However, IMO it is a poor excuse to look the other way and turn a blind eye to kidnapping, torture and murder and then when the sh*t hits the fan, blame it on DV.

Karla had choices. Paul did not hold a gun to her head and force her to participate. She was a willing participant as the videos showed. Paul also didn't tie her up when he left the house. She could have easily walked into any Police Station and turn him in. Did she do that? No! Why? Because Paul was more important to Karla than Leslie, Kristen and her baby sister Tammy. Karla is one sick individual and I am amazed that she still has the support of her family now that they know what really happened to Tammy that fateful night.

We will just have to agree to disagree on this matter.

JMO and MOO!!

2L84AD8: Thank you for conceding that I have a right to disagree.That is much appreciated. I do feel that Karla had culpability in the crimes that were committed.I don't try to excuse her in any way for that.However she was tried,imprisoned and did her time.She was released.I personally feel she should be given a chance to live a decent responsible life and repay society for what she did.I do feel that Paul Bernardo was the driving force behind those murders.It was his psychopathology that fueled the crimes.Again,I am not absolving Karla of her responsibility for her part in these crimes.I cannot speak for the Homolka family but perhaps there was a dysfunctional family dynamic that led Karla to be vunerable to the attentions of a psychopath like Bernardo.And if your own parents won't love you unconditionally then who will?I commend them for supporting their child even in the face of their grief.