Current Possible Murder Scenarios -Past and Present

[star1110shine]

We have discussed these possibilities before and we have new possibilities surfacing. Each scenario holds a possible element to what could of happened to Ray Gricar. Feel free to add to any possibilities.

CURRENT
A. You have JP with power struggles with VT. All we know is JP won in the end in that VT was forced out. Spanier sided with JP. You have someone there that held a lot of power within PSU and didn't want the law which involved RG at the time intervening with his rules on what would happen to a player in legal trouble. That only reflects that JP is old school mentality which is not a crime, so no evidence there.

B. Then you have Ray Gricar in 1998 in a possible case with JS but there seemed to be not enough evidence to convict with a CYS person and a 2 psychologists with conflicting reports.

C.Then you have RG with ties to BP a employee at the time with the AG office, TC and MM ties. Could she have cued TC in about the old 1998 case? Could more have happened that RG was working on? Did she knowingly or unknowingly furnish the info back to her boss or MM? Then you have MM wanting to be DA which never made sense to me to begin with key there is he had a good job under TC. Did he need to get that position to handle a relatives case in all this? Did he handle this through TC or was he against TC? Maybe a deal sparked? Did drugs ring in TC with ASaaano? Is that how TC really got involved? TC had a agenda career wise and was up and coming and I'm sure he knew what his goal was. (Governorship) He would have to have some idea that Second Mile was going to donate you would think among other players.

D. Then there is the kids the same ones maybe who batted for JP against VT. Did they turn on RGricar too?

E. You had BJL in a heap of trouble with RG with plenty of rumors. One good source included that JL was even looking for a alibi. It's clear that BJL lost his driving privileges and still had a upcoming case on a attempted murder charge found to be not true. (his wife case). Another good source explained that BJL was going to go to RG regarding something involving arson's and possibly more than that. It was unclear what all BJL knew beyond the arson's. What made sense about this was that BJL was angry with his father. What he was angry about makes sense regarding being depressed and ultimately suicidal ending. Now it could be possible that he may or may not of went to Ray but he could of told his father he did go to Ray. Ray would be the only one holding a threat to the father in such a situation.

F. Then we have the Mendez case which ended in a different outcome than when Ray held that case. We watched it grow and end up in Marshals lap. Later in years we watched Marshal get into some ethical problems with a boot out the door later ending on the porch of who he works for now. No real charges brought against him.

G. Then we had JD end up in town getting into trouble a few days before RG disappeared. His half bro a commissioner. We know RG went to the PBMeeting thursday, could he have wanted to speak off the record to SD about his brother? JD is m.challenged-could he of thought if RG was gone so will my case? There was plenty of rumor also on this. The orginator of this rumor knew JD very well and knew BJL and things about the Carraway case (nothing to do with any of these cases presented) but remarkable turns out to be genuine, trustworthy.

H. The congressman's rumors? We had a person spout out a lot of angles on this. He rumored it that the drugs wore en-route through the airport in Johnstown. Supposedly before that airport the old Somerset airport was rumored to be the route. Last I checked that airport (Somerset) was up for sale by a unnamed Ohio owner. At the time of disappearance Ray Gricar had a part in a drug bust in that he started that investigation and then somehow MM tried the case. So the AG was also involved in that case. Ray appeared in a photo on the internet for this drug bust. Interestingly this airport harbors top secret military storage units which no one is allowed to see behind any curtain. It contains the best radar system around. It has brought much controversy for earmarks on many news outlets. The congressmen is now deceased and his replacement is being endorsed by BC (a ex president) which was rumored to have some kind of involvement in the Mena Arkansas airport drug case. See Barry Seals and the book Lost Boys on the Tracks.

Please use the letter of the case you want to discuss to make it easy for new followers to read. Also if more possible cases exist just add them as next letter which would be letter I.

[alongcameaspide]

We have discussed these possibilities before and we have new possibilities surfacing. Each scenario holds a possible element to what could of happened to Ray Gricar. Feel free to add to any possibilities.

CURRENT
A. You have JP with power struggles with VT. All we know is JP won in the end in that VT was forced out. Spanier sided with JP. You have someone there that held a lot of power within PSU and didn't want the law which involved RG at the time intervening with his rules on what would happen to a player in legal trouble. That only reflects that JP is old school mentality which is not a crime, so no evidence there.

B. Then you have Ray Gricar in 1998 in a possible case with JS but there seemed to be not enough evidence to convict with a CYS person and a 2 psychologists with conflicting reports.

C.Then you have RG with ties to BP a employee at the time with the AG office, TC and MM ties. Could she have cued TC in about the old 1998 case? Could more have happened that RG was working on? Did she knowingly or unknowingly furnish the info back to her boss or MM? Then you have MM wanting to be DA which never made sense to me to begin with key there is he had a good job under TC. Did he need to get that position to handle a relatives case in all this? Did he handle this through TC or was he against TC? Maybe a deal sparked? Did drugs ring in TC with ASaaano? Is that how TC really got involved? TC had a agenda career wise and was up and coming and I'm sure he knew what his goal was. (Governorship) He would have to have some idea that Second Mile was going to donate you would think among other players.

D. Then there is the kids the same ones maybe who batted for JP against VT. Did they turn on RGricar too?

E. You had BJL in a heap of trouble with RG with plenty of rumors. One good source included that JL was even looking for a alibi. It's clear that BJL lost his driving privileges and still had a upcoming case on a attempted murder charge found to be not true. (his wife case). Another good source explained that BJL was going to go to RG regarding something involving arson's and possibly more than that. It was unclear what all BJL knew beyond the arson's. What made sense about this was that BJL was angry with his father. What he was angry about makes sense regarding being depressed and ultimately suicidal ending. Now it could be possible that he may or may not of went to Ray but he could of told his father he did go to Ray. Ray would be the only one holding a threat to the father in such a situation.

F. Then we have the Mendez case which ended in a different outcome than when Ray held that case. We watched it grow and end up in Marshals lap. Later in years we watched Marshal get into some ethical problems with a boot out the door later ending on the porch of who he works for now. No real charges brought against him.

G. Then we had JD end up in town getting into trouble a few days before RG disappeared. His half bro a commissioner. We know RG went to the PBMeeting thursday, could he have wanted to speak off the record to SD about his brother? JD is m.challenged-could he of thought if RG was gone so will my case? There was plenty of rumor also on this. The orginator of this rumor knew JD very well and knew BJL and things about the Carraway case (nothing to do with any of these cases presented) but remarkable turns out to be genuine, trustworthy.

H. The congressman's rumors? We had a person spout out a lot of angles on this. He rumored it that the drugs wore en-route through the airport in Johnstown. Supposedly before that airport the old Somerset airport was rumored to be the route. Last I checked that airport (Somerset) was up for sale by a unnamed Ohio owner. At the time of disappearance Ray Gricar had a part in a drug bust in that he started that investigation and then somehow MM tried the case. So the AG was also involved in that case. Ray appeared in a photo on the internet for this drug bust. Interestingly this airport harbors top secret military storage units which no one is allowed to see behind any curtain. It contains the best radar system around. It has brought much controversy for earmarks on many news outlets. The congressmen is now deceased and his replacement is being endorsed by BC (a ex president) which was rumored to have some kind of involvement in the Mena Arkansas airport drug case. See Barry Seals and the book Lost Boys on the Tracks.

Please use the letter of the case you want to discuss to make it easy for new followers to read. Also if more possible cases exist just add them as next letter which would be letter I.

Let's see RG was interested in the 1969 stabbing case at PSU WHY????? going back to that picture of him-I think you know the one I am talking about /they say a picture say's 1'000 words I am thinking here that is what his state of mind was on the morning of 4-15-05*** about the luna case the stabbing--someone wanted to make a point ..I can say this++++ many years ago a female sutdent here at PSU was murdered and still unsolved How was she killed by someone stabbing her many many times I think was RG involved with this case I am not sure she worked at the corner room in state college high end humans liked to visit this place morning noon and at night also many years ago a female went missing just disapeered of the face of the earth and she worked right outside of bellefonte at a bar did RG look at this case which is still unsolved 20 plus years I know case's can be tough to break just like cindy song's also I did tell ya all about one that involved steroids which was within the S-department I am not sure if this has anything to do with RG I do know the picture does

[SuperSmith]

I. I think Spidey was trying to include the possibility of the Ray Gricar and the Jonathan Luna cases intersecting at some point. (see the Jonathan Luna thread for details.

J. I would like to submit the suicide of Roy Gricar (Ray's brother). It was said that Roy fit the profile for suicide. His son, Tony, however states that it was pretty cut and dry EXCEPT for the fact that Roy hated the water. Tony's logic (which I completely agree) is that if you are afraid of fire you most likely are not going to set yourself on fire to commit the act. Same with fear of water. You are not going to drown yourself. Also it's been said several times that Ray never believed his brother committed suicide and was devastated by his loss.

Did Ray have clues that made him think it wasn't suicide or was it a gut feeling? I am certain that Ray would never let this go. Would you?

Was Roy's death a warning to Ray? Remember that the Ray Gricar Lewisburg scene was, IMO, staged to mock the scene of his very own brothers death.

What is the message there?

[star1110shine]

SS On your J. Scenario I have to agree with what you said. For a long time I felt Ray never thought that his brother committed suicide and then it came out in the CDT that Ray didn't believe that Roy committted suicide. A validation of the feeling. In 1996 there was a case I was looking at with ties to DHS people. Ray set up a sting operation involving a children (sisters) that was being molested. The family had some high up ties, I will name only the one I'm sure of which was Raytheon. The family of the son that was in trouble is a pillar of the community and is known to SPM.

[star1110shine]

Spidey your I. scenario is interesting also. Johnathon Luna curiously told his father he was going to PA regarding a case. Later we got told that Luna just told his father that. I'm not convinced that he just made that up. Perhaps something did connect that involved Pennsylvania. It was rumored that Mr Luna was working on something that involved a sex ring. Also your Betsy A and Dana Baily had something in common in that they was students of Penn State. A lot seems to be filtering in as from Penn state lately. Brenda Condon I don't think she was a Penn student but her ex boyfriend in recent years was supposedly involved in drugs and arrested.

[Serendipitous1]

K. RG was beamed up to a mothership, by aliens looking to repopulate their planet or to populate another planet with good people. RG could have lived through that but be unable to communicate with us ... or he might have died due to "pilot" error. How would we know? Dang those extra-terrestrials. What were they thinking?

[alongcameaspide]

We have discussed these possibilities before and we have new possibilities surfacing. Each scenario holds a possible element to what could of happened to Ray Gricar. Feel free to add to any possibilities.

CURRENT
A. You have JP with power struggles with VT. All we know is JP won in the end in that VT was forced out. Spanier sided with JP. You have someone there that held a lot of power within PSU and didn't want the law which involved RG at the time intervening with his rules on what would happen to a player in legal trouble. That only reflects that JP is old school mentality which is not a crime, so no evidence there.

B. Then you have Ray Gricar in 1998 in a possible case with JS but there seemed to be not enough evidence to convict with a CYS person and a 2 psychologists with conflicting reports.

C.Then you have RG with ties to BP a employee at the time with the AG office, TC and MM ties. Could she have cued TC in about the old 1998 case? Could more have happened that RG was working on? Did she knowingly or unknowingly furnish the info back to her boss or MM? Then you have MM wanting to be DA which never made sense to me to begin with key there is he had a good job under TC. Did he need to get that position to handle a relatives case in all this? Did he handle this through TC or was he against TC? Maybe a deal sparked? Did drugs ring in TC with ASaaano? Is that how TC really got involved? TC had a agenda career wise and was up and coming and I'm sure he knew what his goal was. (Governorship) He would have to have some idea that Second Mile was going to donate you would think among other players.

D. Then there is the kids the same ones maybe who batted for JP against VT. Did they turn on RGricar too?

E. You had BJL in a heap of trouble with RG with plenty of rumors. One good source included that JL was even looking for a alibi. It's clear that BJL lost his driving privileges and still had a upcoming case on a attempted murder charge found to be not true. (his wife case). Another good source explained that BJL was going to go to RG regarding something involving arson's and possibly more than that. It was unclear what all BJL knew beyond the arson's. What made sense about this was that BJL was angry with his father. What he was angry about makes sense regarding being depressed and ultimately suicidal ending. Now it could be possible that he may or may not of went to Ray but he could of told his father he did go to Ray. Ray would be the only one holding a threat to the father in such a situation.

F. Then we have the Mendez case which ended in a different outcome than when Ray held that case. We watched it grow and end up in Marshals lap. Later in years we watched Marshal get into some ethical problems with a boot out the door later ending on the porch of who he works for now. No real charges brought against him.

G. Then we had JD end up in town getting into trouble a few days before RG disappeared. His half bro a commissioner. We know RG went to the PBMeeting thursday, could he have wanted to speak off the record to SD about his brother? JD is m.challenged-could he of thought if RG was gone so will my case? There was plenty of rumor also on this. The orginator of this rumor knew JD very well and knew BJL and things about the Carraway case (nothing to do with any of these cases presented) but remarkable turns out to be genuine, trustworthy.

H. The congressman's rumors? We had a person spout out a lot of angles on this. He rumored it that the drugs wore en-route through the airport in Johnstown. Supposedly before that airport the old Somerset airport was rumored to be the route. Last I checked that airport (Somerset) was up for sale by a unnamed Ohio owner. At the time of disappearance Ray Gricar had a part in a drug bust in that he started that investigation and then somehow MM tried the case. So the AG was also involved in that case. Ray appeared in a photo on the internet for this drug bust. Interestingly this airport harbors top secret military storage units which no one is allowed to see behind any curtain. It contains the best radar system around. It has brought much controversy for earmarks on many news outlets. The congressmen is now deceased and his replacement is being endorsed by BC (a ex president) which was rumored to have some kind of involvement in the Mena Arkansas airport drug case. See Barry Seals and the book Lost Boys on the Tracks.

Please use the letter of the case you want to discuss to make it easy for new followers to read. Also if more possible cases exist just add them as next letter which would be letter I.

Star not getting off track I had to look ove each one here LETTER "E" one the list I am not sure if you heard about this one but a lot of young teenagers were burnt up in a fire on the centre county and cliton county line I was trying to think what year that happened and it was never solved it happened near a big camp and how it happened was very bad I will have to get more info if I can if you or anyone eles can give any put it on

[lw-intuit]

Star not getting off track I had to look ove each one here LETTER "E" one the list I am not sure if you heard about this one but a lot of young teenagers were burnt up in a fire on the centre county and cliton county line I was trying to think what year that happened and it was never solved it happened near a big camp and how it happened was very bad I will have to get more info if I can if you or anyone eles can give any put it on

I think these two links are about the fire you are referring to.

http://dailyitem.com/0100_news/x6912...ant-fill/print

http://articles.nydailynews.com/1998...halation-cabin

[lw-intuit]

Here is another article about the fire with more particulars regarding what could have caused the fire. It appears it wasn't a gas explosion, but why none of the 11 woke up and were all still in their beds is strange if not something very fast such as an explosion.

http://articles.nydailynews.com/1998...-gas-fireplace

JMO

[alongcameaspide]

Here is another article about the fire with more particulars regarding what could have caused the fire. It appears it wasn't a gas explosion, but why none of the 11 woke up and were all still in their beds is strange if not something very fast such as an explosion.

http://articles.nydailynews.com/1998...-gas-fireplace

JMO

Thank You

[alongcameaspide]

I think these two links are about the fire you are referring to.

http://dailyitem.com/0100_news/x6912...ant-fill/print

http://articles.nydailynews.com/1998...halation-cabin

Letters E 7G was there any lawyers in county or outside of the county involved also in Jan of 98 3 young soul's lost there lives in a cabin fire in Gregg TWP very sad then this one in march

[alongcameaspide]

also there was something I read when I first seen it but now is missing about the cabin fire in march I will have to get the daily item out and others and look at them from 1998

[MAV1962]

K. It is possible that RG was murdered by a friend or close acquaintance. There are certain big risks to "disappearing" a body, including the chance that the disappearance of a DA would set off a mammoth search that would go on for years, if needed. Criminal killers could not count on a "stand down" across the board and the emergence of "walkaway" as a widely accepted explanation for RG's disappearance. People are "disappeared" because the fact of or the manner of death would give away the identity of the likely suspects. Or because like many murderous spouses, the killer(s) in this case want to keep the gullible bleating "walkaway."