Where are you Ray?--THE NEW POSTERS REHASHING

[star1110shine]

Good question lw.

[star1110shine]

I have in my notes nbk001 499-00 part number.

[SuperSmith]

I noticed that on the laptop found it has Trek 2 on it. In checking out the Trek 2 and when it came out, it appears it was 1998. Would the county buy new laptops in 2004 that had a system 6 years old?

http://www.ehow.com/facts_7414547_sp...t-trek-ii.html

JMO

Good catch LW. To answer your question. No they would not. In 98 the Tek2 was a top of the line Laptop with many options.

[SuperSmith]

"It had two PCMCIA expansion card slots, which could handle either 3- or 5-volt cards.

Read more: Micron Trek 2 Specs | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/info_8033152_mic...#ixzz1hprjRcQm

"It had a 4 MB 3-D graphics accelerator chip and two PC card slots

Read more: Micron Trek 2 Specs | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/info_8033152_mic...#ixzz1hpruOGwU

I think the two pieces I couldn't identify were the battery pack and perhaps an aircard or PC card (small object)

[lw-intuit]

Good catch LW. To answer your question. No they would not. In 98 the Tek2 was a top of the line Laptop with many options.

Since PF stated he never used his laptop, I don't know why he wouldn't have turned in the old laptop if there was nothing on it.
That has been the continuing problem with this case. Can't seem to get a straight answer from anyone on anything that doesn't later come back with 'holes' in it.
I see nothing different between this case and PSU case in so far as getting at the truth. IMO, there IS no difference. Two secrets or one, is the question----

JMO

[SuperSmith]

Since PF stated he never used his laptop, I don't know why he wouldn't have turned in the old laptop if there was nothing on it.
That has been the continuing problem with this case. Can't seem to get a straight answer from anyone on anything that doesn't later come back with 'holes' in it.
I see nothing different between this case and PSU case in so far as getting at the truth. IMO, there IS no difference. Two secrets or one, is the question----

JMO

Since he was so close to retirement this is probably the reason for inquiring how to erase the hard drive. Erasing the hard drive became such a big deal in this case. Maybe too much for no reason although I'm not sure why an IT person didn't just reformat the hard drive for Ray or since it was a pop out drive just let Ray keep the HD and turn in the laptop.

I am sure there was something on it, case files, notes, etc. Just not sure if there would be enough to give JS motive to want the laptop destroyed. Kinda goes back to my theory that taking out the laptop only takes out one possible source of data.

[lw-intuit]

Since he was so close to retirement this is probably the reason for inquiring how to erase the hard drive. Erasing the hard drive became such a big deal in this case. Maybe too much for no reason although I'm not sure why an IT person didn't just reformat the hard drive for Ray or since it was a pop out drive just let Ray keep the HD and turn in the laptop.

I am sure there was something on it, case files, notes, etc. Just not sure if there would be enough to give JS motive to want the laptop destroyed. Kinda goes back to my theory that taking out the laptop only takes out one possible source of data.

I still fall back on John DeCamp's theory on control. If one person could control all of the information, then there is no problem for the person wanting to keep the truth hidden.

In the JS case, it is possible case files as well as notes could have been on a 1998 laptop and at PSU, which have since been said to be 'sealed'.

The courthouse is saying no JS file there, so 1) was there ever a file there and 2)if there was, did MM send it to the AG's office at time of recusal?

Was the PSU file sent to AG office as well and 'sealed'? If so, all information is controlled, IMO.

[SuperSmith]

I still fall back on John DeCamp's theory on control. If one person could control all of the information, then there is no problem for the person wanting to keep the truth hidden.

In the JS case, it is possible case files as well as notes could have been on a 1998 laptop and at PSU, which have since been said to be 'sealed'.

The courthouse is saying no JS file there, so 1) was there ever a file there and 2)if there was, did MM send it to the AG's office at time of recusal?

Was the PSU file sent to AG office as well and 'sealed'? If so, all information is controlled, IMO.

But what really have they controlled? PSU is tarnished, Second Mile is taking a nose dive, and JS is jail bound. In 2005 the 1998 incident is an after thought because the 2000 & 2002 (with eyewitness) had occurred.

Take me a little further in your theory so I can better understand where you are going with it.

[lw-intuit]

I am sure there was something on it, case files, notes, etc. Just not sure if there would be enough to give JS motive to want the laptop destroyed. Kinda goes back to my theory that taking out the laptop only takes out one possible source of data.

I think that depends on how important the reason is to someone that it remain a 'secret', and who had the means to access everything that would insure it remains a 'secret'.
If there was nothing there, no need for all the 'disappearances', from RG, to laptop, to courthouse files, to PSU files, and likely any CYS files as well. What the laptop could show that none of the other files might show is a continuum by RG, collecting information over the next few years to slowly build a case, which is why the 'notes' that he likely would have kept on the laptop or in written files, would be important. MM was quick to say there were 'no notes' left by RG in the files, which is when I asked when he saw the files to know that.

JMO

[lw-intuit]

But what really have they controlled? PSU is tarnished, Second Mile is taking a nose dive, and JS is jail bound. In 2005 the 1998 incident is an after thought because the 2000 & 2002 (with eyewitness) had occurred.

Take me a little further in your theory so I can better understand where you are going with it.

Compare what is happening now to what could have happened in 2005, if this all came out then, and I think you can determine what the big difference is in who would have controlled the outcome.

JMO

[lw-intuit]

"It had two PCMCIA expansion card slots, which could handle either 3- or 5-volt cards.

Read more: Micron Trek 2 Specs | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/info_8033152_mic...#ixzz1hprjRcQm

"It had a 4 MB 3-D graphics accelerator chip and two PC card slots

Read more: Micron Trek 2 Specs | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/info_8033152_mic...#ixzz1hpruOGwU

I think the two pieces I couldn't identify were the battery pack and perhaps an aircard or PC card (small object)

Question here-----I have searched online, and from what I have found, it appears the Micron Trek 2 came with a Micron hard drive. The paper that is laying along side the hard drive with Ray's name on it on Dateline says it's a Hitachi hard drive. Does that mean it isn't the original hard drive and a replacement was put in at sometime, if it came from the laptop found?

JMO

[SuperSmith]

Question here-----I have searched online, and from what I have found, it appears the Micron Trek 2 came with a Micron hard drive. The paper that is laying along side the hard drive with Ray's name on it on Dateline says it's a Hitachi hard drive. Does that mean it isn't the original hard drive and a replacement was put in at sometime, if it came from the laptop found?

JMO

I didn't catch that LW but perhaps Dateline just used a prop for the show?

[2-B]

I think it is clear that his laptop had a floppy drive and a disk drive.

If the perpetrators were worried about something on this laptop how could they NOT be worried about the same or parts of this information existing on a possible newer work laptop, Ray's home desktop computer, or his work desktop computer, or any disks he may have back up information on. My point is if the real intention was to destroy incriminating evidence then why the laptop that he hardly used and "was in the top shelf of the closet"? This would only destroy one possible source of the incriminating evidence.

The disposal of the laptop. Was it Ray, the perps in a hurry, or a plant by LE. I certainly don't think it was Ray. It just doesn't seem to be his style. I can't see him ripping the HD out, damaging it, and chucking both pieces into the river.

Perps in a hurry makes some sense but again that throws me back to them only destroying one possible source. Why in Lewisburg near the car? It seems to me there are dozens of better places in the midstate to throw that computer and laptop where it is assured to never be found. They certainly hid the body well so why not the laptop or HD? It is understandably more difficult to conceal the car.

LE plant is the hunch I've had for awhile now. Unidentified finders, the timing, divers not finding these after 2 searches, and having these pieces thrown where they were (in conjunction with the car) serves a purpose.

The laptop travels. How did the laptop make its journey?

-Did Ray take it along that day (possible meet)? If so why would he need it and why not take the case? Not taking the case, to me, points to whoever took it didn't want it being known immediately. If Patty saw the case in the closet there would be no reason to believe the laptop was not in it.

-Did the perps steal it before or after the 15th? No break in was evident but a professional could pull it off. Was the carrying bag finger printed?

-Did LE gain access to it? They seemed very interested early on about it although it was only after Patty told them about it. Is the laptop found even Ray's? LW, pointed out that Ray could haven't gotten a newer one and that was backed up when the guy from IT said Ray most likely had a 2004 version of the Micron.

The laptop is the key people. I'm sure most of you know this but if you solve the mystery of the laptop then this case becomes a lot clearer.

Some other thoughts/questions:

If Ray didn't have the laptop with him that Friday, could perpetrators have taken his keys and entered the house sometime between a kidnapping/murder and PF's return home after work (after having forced the laptop location from Ray at gunpoint/knifepoint/threat to family/etc.)?

To your list of "who put the laptop in the river," have you considered "perps not in a hurry"? As in, perps misdirecting the investigation at a later date?

Is it possible there was never anything on the laptop that perps wanted but that they only wanted the laptop as a misdirection/staging element?

If Ray took the laptop with him that day, why? He was not known to be a computer guy as opposed to a paper and pencil guy. If he had stuff to destroy, he wouldn't be so dumb as to buy the stupidity that water would be "the best" route, given that every tech site on Google says otherwise. He would also never be so stupid as to walk away leaving the laptop near his car as the start of a trail investigators could follow. He couldn't use the laptop for research in Lewisburg--no wifi capability. If he was providing information for someone, no need to drag the computer along, just a disk. (Just thinking out loud here--can anyone come up with a reasonable explanation that Ray Gricar--not "someone"--would bring that laptop with him that Friday??)

Sorry for the disjointed thoughts. My computer finally seems to be working again after a bunch of virus attacks that appear to have started "over there." I'm just so danged happy to be back on line that I'm just typing away. LOL.

[SuperSmith]

Some other thoughts/questions:

If Ray didn't have the laptop with him that Friday, could perpetrators have taken his keys and entered the house sometime between a kidnapping/murder and PF's return home after work (after having forced the laptop location from Ray at gunpoint/knifepoint/threat to family/etc.)?

To your list of "who put the laptop in the river," have you considered "perps not in a hurry"? As in, perps misdirecting the investigation at a later date?

Is it possible there was never anything on the laptop that perps wanted but that they only wanted the laptop as a misdirection/staging element?

If Ray took the laptop with him that day, why? He was not known to be a computer guy as opposed to a paper and pencil guy. If he had stuff to destroy, he wouldn't be so dumb as to buy the stupidity that water would be "the best" route, given that every tech site on Google says otherwise. He would also never be so stupid as to walk away leaving the laptop near his car as the start of a trail investigators could follow. He couldn't use the laptop for research in Lewisburg--no wifi capability. If he was providing information for someone, no need to drag the computer along, just a disk. (Just thinking out loud here--can anyone come up with a reasonable explanation that Ray Gricar--not "someone"--would bring that laptop with him that Friday??)

Sorry for the disjointed thoughts. My computer finally seems to be working again after a bunch of virus attacks that appear to have started "over there." I'm just so danged happy to be back on line that I'm just typing away. LOL.

Love the thoughts here. The laptop in Ray's possession makes no sense. The location makes no sense. As I said in other posts there is no way the divers missed the laptop and HD not once but twice!! I do believe they were carefully planted afterwards to in fact derail the public opinion away from foul play and more towards walk-a-way. Also I have mentioned that taking out the laptop would serve an incomplete purpose if there was something incriminating on it because there was still two other computers, disks, and back ups to be accounted for.

The keys being missing certainly would give the perps the means to and window of time to snatch the laptop. Here is the key question there. How would they know Ray had this laptop, where it was, etc.

Staging by the scene in Lewisburg is the only logical explanation. Has the fewest holes.

[Rhododendron]

I'm an "old poster" here rehashing . . .

The laptop has never made sense to me.
1. Never bought the push to prove "walkaway" with the "how to fry a hard drive" or "never to see the light of day" BS.
2. I can't imagine RG, as careful with county equipment as we've heard described, taking the laptop without the case.
3. The laptop/hard drive in the river was not done by RG, IMO, because of his care of county equipment.
4. Since I don't believe RG had anything to do with the laptop, who knew about it? Who knew where it was stored? How did it get out of the house? Who threw it into the river? IMO, it wasn't a stranger who took it out of the closet & house; someone had to know where it was stored or had to tell another where it was. (Can't imagine how that info. was brought up in general, innocent conversation, however.)

The Mini in Lewisburg.
1. As stated by 2-B & others, no credible witnesses or anything pertaining to RG was found in Lewisburg.
2. The cigarette smoke smell & ashes tell me he wasn't in the car. Mr. Rhododendron does not allow cigarettes in his truck---period! NO ONE would ever be allowed to smoke in his vehicle or to smoke outside an open window of the truck; I imagine RG was as particular.

Friends, it is my opinion (& my opinion only) that we really are being treated as mushrooms: kept in the dark & fed BS, and by a whole lot of people too! Stop for a minute and ask yourself: who would want to stage the Lewisburg stuff? Why would a drug dealer go to that much trouble? Why would a disgruntled ex-con go to that much trouble? Then ask yourself why was LE so hellbent on accessing RG's computers when they didn't even take time to interview his 2 best friends or neighbors or other courthouse employees. IMO, they knew something was being stored on one of his computers or else they suspected there might be something . . . something big.

[SuperSmith]

I'm an "old poster" here rehashing . . .

The laptop has never made sense to me.
1. Never bought the push to prove "walkaway" with the "how to fry a hard drive" or "never to see the light of day" BS.
2. I can't imagine RG, as careful with county equipment as we've heard described, taking the laptop without the case.
3. The laptop/hard drive in the river was not done by RG, IMO, because of his care of county equipment.
4. Since I don't believe RG had anything to do with the laptop, who knew about it? Who knew where it was stored? How did it get out of the house? Who threw it into the river? IMO, it wasn't a stranger who took it out of the closet & house; someone had to know where it was stored or had to tell another where it was. (Can't imagine how that info. was brought up in general, innocent conversation, however.)

The Mini in Lewisburg.
1. As stated by 2-B & others, no credible witnesses or anything pertaining to RG was found in Lewisburg.
2. The cigarette smoke smell & ashes tell me he wasn't in the car. Mr. Rhododendron does not allow cigarettes in his truck---period! NO ONE would ever be allowed to smoke in his vehicle or to smoke outside an open window of the truck; I imagine RG was as particular.

Friends, it is my opinion (& my opinion only) that we really are being treated as mushrooms: kept in the dark & fed BS, and by a whole lot of people too! Stop for a minute and ask yourself: who would want to stage the Lewisburg stuff? Why would a drug dealer go to that much trouble? Why would a disgruntled ex-con go to that much trouble? Then ask yourself why was LE so hellbent on accessing RG's computers when they didn't even take time to interview his 2 best friends or neighbors or other courthouse employees. IMO, they knew something was being stored on one of his computers or else they suspected there might be something . . . something big.

Great post Rho! I agree with you on everything.

In regards to the Laptop location. I believe the location might have been brought up in innocent convo. Perhaps when he was supposedly asking co-workers how to erase the hard drive with his impending retirement coming up.

[Rhododendron]

Great post Rho! I agree with you on everything.

In regards to the Laptop location. I believe the location might have been brought up in innocent convo. Perhaps when he was supposedly asking co-workers how to erase the hard drive with his impending retirement coming up.

Soooo, what you're saying is that perhaps, just maybe, a co-worker knew where the laptop was stored & perhaps, just maybe, a co-worker took the laptop????? Well, if so, the thought has crossed my mind for a lonnnggggg time!!!

[Serendipitous1]

Soooo, what you're saying is that perhaps, just maybe, a co-worker knew where the laptop was stored & perhaps, just maybe, a co-worker took the laptop????? Well, if so, the thought has crossed my mind for a lonnnggggg time!!!

Or entrusted the laptop to someone who switched hard drives (for compatible computers), and then salted the Susquehanna?

[Rhododendron]

Or entrusted the laptop to someone who switched hard drives (for compatible computers), and then salted the Susquehanna?

More icing on the cake? (Maybe someone trusted by RG ?)

[ladyheartfixer]

I know I truely feel like a mushroom, Rho

[Serendipitous1]

I know I truely feel like a mushroom, Rho

The number of Trek 2 computers, worldwide, is not significant. But long ago CS learned (and shared) that the county had supplied identical Micron laptop computers to everyone in the DA's office who wanted one. TG got all huffy about CS's out-of-school disclosure. To me, that made the "world" of Trek 2 users shrink faster than a newbie's hardon for Nancy DisGrace.

[star1110shine]

The number of Trek 2 computers, worldwide, is not significant. But long ago CS learned (and shared) that the county had supplied identical Micron laptop computers to everyone in the DA's office who wanted one. TG got all huffy about CS's out-of-school disclosure. To me, that made the "world" of Trek 2 users shrink faster than a newbie's hardon for Nancy DisGrace.

Wonder why that was?

[Serendipitous1]

Wonder why that was?

It is a secret, dontcha know? You cannot have every Tom, Dick and Harry knowing about such things...let alone questioning such things. You cannot have I-people doing their own investigation. So when C and company got close to PF (something the Luna-tics were denied), TG went off in fits and sparks. Same with the laptop distribution in the Centre County Courthouse. Why? Because you cannot have I-people knowing more than what has been controlled in the news media. You (we) are not able to handle the truth. Therefore the truth is denied us.

[Rhododendron]

It is a secret, dontcha know? You cannot have every Tom, Dick and Harry knowing about such things...let alone questioning such things. You cannot have I-people doing their own investigation. So when C and company got close to PF (something the Luna-tics were denied), TG went off in fits and sparks. Same with the laptop distribution in the Centre County Courthouse. Why? Because you cannot have I-people knowing more than what has been controlled in the news media. You (we) are not able to handle the truth. Therefore the truth is denied us.

Mushrooms! Yep, we sure are mushrooms . . . or maybe lowly toadstools! We probably won't ever know the whole truth about RG's disappearance, but I think we're coming out of the dark a little at a time and at least we know we're being fed the BS!!! That's a whole lot better that where we were the past 6 yrs.

[Serendipitous1]

Mushrooms! Yep, we sure are mushrooms . . . or maybe lowly toadstools! We probably won't ever know the whole truth about RG's disappearance, but I think we're coming out of the dark a little at a time and at least we know we're being fed the BS!!! That's a whole lot better that where we were the past 6 yrs.

We are most certainly better off then when TG was onboard. I tried to warn him. The family never has to listen or respond to these types of forums. TG did not heed that maxim. He wrongfully thought we could be placated. TG has not returned since. He had no real purpose in being here in the first place IMO. You be the judge.

[SuperSmith]

Wow, I thought the Christmas break would do some of you vets some good. Apparently not! LOL Sounds like you all are drowning in quicksand! JK, some of these posts are funny. Some of you need to receive the Junior Gman badge.

[Serendipitous1]

Wow, I thought the Christmas break would do some of you vets some good. Apparently not! LOL Sounds like you all are drowning in quicksand! JK, some of these posts are funny. Some of you need to receive the Junior Gman badge.

We await your superior wisdom. Otherwise you are just another "also ran" (like most of us).

[2-B]

I know I truely feel like a mushroom, Rho

Maybe not all for naught, LHF. This is a description of an interview I listened to last night:

Researcher Jan Irvin joins Rob Simone for a discussion on the earliest known forms of religion and nature worship and their connections to our modern religions and holidays; and how special plants used in shamanic rituals, including the Amanita muscaria mushroom, were ingested by those seeking higher consciousness. According to some academics & Cabalists, in the story of Adam & Eve, the Tree of Knowledge was actually the magic mushrooms, he noted, adding that in the ancient Vedic (India) tradition, "soma" is described as a plant or fruit that brings spiritual enlightenment. Scholars today suspect that soma was a mushroom or similar substance.

[bolding mine]

So if one is willing to go along with those lines of thinking, perhaps we are being fed magic mushrooms from the Tree of Knowledge. May the Soma be with us.

[SuperSmith]

We await your superior wisdom. Otherwise you are just another "also ran" (like most of us).

Ohhh S1 don't take offense. I was just trying to lighten the mood. Much like my Samuel Adams I have in hand. In no way do I think I am superior than any of you. I'm just an adventurer rescued by your ship so that we all may plot a course through the BS to find the truth.

[Serendipitous1]

So if one is willing to go along with those lines of thinking, perhaps we are being fed magic mushrooms from the Tree of Knowledge. May the Soma be with us.

I once suggested mushroom clouds. It got me banned. Go figure.

"I've looked at clouds from both sides now...
from up and down and still somehow...
it's life's elusions I recall...
I really don't know clouds at all."

~ Joni Mitchell

[SuperSmith]

So Amos subscribed to the who "credible" eyewitness in Lewisburg. As the familys attorney, I wonder if the LG, PF, and TG bought into it?

http://www.centrelaw.com/page.php?id=40

[lw-intuit]

So Amos subscribed to the who "credible" eyewitness in Lewisburg. As the familys attorney, I wonder if the LG, PF, and TG bought into it?

http://www.centrelaw.com/page.php?id=40

IMO, there is only one credible witness------the dog, which nullifies ALL of the eyewitness reports.
RG's scent didn't leave the SOS lot, therefore any eyewitness who said he was here, there or anywhere other than in that lot is 'barking up the wrong tree', IMO.

[Serendipitous1]

Ohhh S1 don't take offense. I was just trying to lighten the mood. Much like my Samuel Adams I have in hand. In no way do I think I am superior than any of you. I'm just an adventurer rescued by your ship so that we all may plot a course through the BS to find the truth.

I rest no hope in Samuel Adams. Try a YingYang and an old saunterer's travelogue. If you like neither...so be it.

[SuperSmith]

I rest no hope in Samuel Adams. Try a YingYang and an old saunterer's travelogue. If you like neither...so be it.

Nice to see you can take a joke S1. Ironically, I was just reading about you. I knew you were close to this case but didn't know just how close.

[Serendipitous1]

Nice to see you can take a joke S1. Ironically, I was just reading about you. I knew you were close to this case but didn't know just how close.

I am not close to this case (I have yet to meet a Gricar). I am just here (since 2005) trying to sort out the facts and rail against the fantasy.

I do have a sense of humor. You cannot go 7 years on this case without one. But I really don't know clouds at all.

[2-B]

"I've looked at clouds from both sides now...
from up and down and still somehow...
it's life's elusions I recall...
I really don't know clouds at all."

~ Joni Mitchell

The version that's far superior to what Judy Collins did with it when she turned this song into pablum.

[2-B]

So Amos subscribed to the who "credible" eyewitness in Lewisburg. As the familys attorney, I wonder if the LG, PF, and TG bought into it?

http://www.centrelaw.com/page.php?id=40

TG fully understands the difference between "credible witness" and "credible sighting."

[2-B]

IMO, there is only one credible witness------the dog, which nullifies ALL of the eyewitness reports.
RG's scent didn't leave the SOS lot, therefore any eyewitness who said he was here, there or anywhere other than in that lot is 'barking up the wrong tree', IMO.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[SuperSmith]

Couldn't have said it better myself.

I know this topic has been a much talked about so I will make this a yes or no question.

Could the dogs still have a viable scent after more than 30 hours and no car at the scene in the Lewisburg parking lot?

[2-B]

I know this topic has been a much talked about so I will make this a yes or no question.

Could the dogs still have a viable scent after more than 30 hours and no car at the scene in the Lewisburg parking lot?

For a trailing dog, absolutely.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/lab/fore...research03.htm

https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/publicatio...aspx?id=240383

http://www.vk9sar.org/Sniff.html (car exhaust/Tolhurst links)

Also see:

John Glasgow case/top dog handlers in Arkansas say Glasgow wasn't at the lodge

Laci Peterson case/pre-trial testimony that scent at marina could have come from the vehicle