Intuitive insights only

[lw-intuit]

!!????!! This one either came from a complete nut job out in left field, or there's a nexus no one else has ever made public. Stranger things have happened--like Cary Stayner/Steven Stayner. (Or Madeira's brother-in-law.) Digging for the truth should be interesting on this one.

Found the article with comments.........

http://thestir.cafemom.com/in_the_ne...ws_his?next=41

[7psig]

It came up in an opinion letter last May but since MS apparently isn't one of the victims I don't think it means much.
http://www.centredaily.com/2011/05/1...rand-jury.html

[2-B]

Found the article with comments.........

http://thestir.cafemom.com/in_the_ne...ws_his?next=41

Thanks, very interesting. But I have a question. Is the "Debra Long" mentioned at Cafemom.com the same person as the "Deborah Long" mentioned here:

Messages between Heichel and his mother, Deborah Long of Bellefonte, shortly after the killing, also were introduced into court.
http://www.lockhaven.com/page/conten....html?nav=5009

Misspelling? Or two different people?

[7psig]

Deborah doesn't necessarily equal Debra (common names).

[2-B]

It came up in an opinion letter last May but since MS apparently isn't one of the victims I don't think it means much.
http://www.centredaily.com/2011/05/1...rand-jury.html

Just my armchair psychology take on the situation, so not worth very much, but . . . sounds to me as if Debra or Deborah, whoever MS's mother is, feels some guilt about letting her son be adopted. Sounds as if she's then using Jerry's sins to assuage her own.

Take that for what it's worth, which is very little. Just guesses.

[2-B]

Deborah doesn't necessarily equal Debra (common names).

Exactly, and so is "Long."

[lw-intuit]

Checking on any possibility of name crossovers to the Mill Hall group, and unexplained deaths. This happened one month after Mincer, the undercover agent, died 'unexpectedly', close to the time when the report of JS activity was said to have been first turned over to Madeira. I don't see a follow-up on what cause of death was determined to be in this case.

http://www.lockhaven.com/page/conten....html?nav=5009

JMO

[Rhododendron]

Checking on any possibility of name crossovers to the Mill Hall group, and unexplained deaths. This happened one month after Mincer, the undercover agent, died 'unexpectedly', close to the time when the report of JS activity was said to have been first turned over to Madeira. I don't see a follow-up on what cause of death was determined to be in this case.

http://www.lockhaven.com/page/conten....html?nav=5009

JMO

According to one site, the coroner didn't feel there was any foul play involved; autopsy was performed; results of toxicology exam. would take a couple weeks. Didn't find anything else.

[lw-intuit]

According to one site, the coroner didn't feel there was any foul play involved; autopsy was performed; results of toxicology exam. would take a couple weeks. Didn't find anything else.

So the results are online somewhere? I checked but couldn't find them. I will keep looking since I guess you found them. Thanks!

[Rhododendron]

So the results are online somewhere? I checked but couldn't find them. I will keep looking since I guess you found them. Thanks!

Just type in the girl's name; you will find several sites, one of which is her obituary.

[lw-intuit]

Just type in the girl's name; you will find several sites, one of which is her obituary.

Thanks, Rho. I did that but her obituary is in July 23rd news, and as of September 11, there was no news on cause, and I couldn't find anything after that. What am I missing?-------lol

http://www.lockhaven.com/page/conten...l-unknown.html

JMO

[Rhododendron]

Thanks, Rho. I did that but her obituary is in July 23rd news, and as of September 11, there was no news on cause, and I couldn't find anything after that. What am I missing?-------lol

http://www.lockhaven.com/page/conten...l-unknown.html

JMO

Check this out. http://www.lockhaven.com/page/conten...id/504568.html - Cached

Have you noticed how often we never hear the end results of any type testing???

[7psig]

Exactly, and so is "Long."

There may be a connection here if you are on facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/Dbbyl8664

[SuperSmith]

There may be a connection here if you are on facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/Dbbyl8664

Debra Rose Long on Facebook

-Went to Bellefonte Highschool
-Likes ChristiaNet.
-Likes Hope For-Missing
-Posted this story "Penn State Scandal: Mother of Sandusky's Adopted Son Speaks Out - Yahoo!
From Yahoo!: The Mother of the Youngest Adopted Child has Come Forward to Accuse the Coach
Debra Rose Long commented "this one did work for me"

-

[7psig]

Yeah but did you check out her friends list and read her posts on JS pages?

[lw-intuit]

Check this out. http://www.lockhaven.com/page/conten...id/504568.html - Cached

Have you noticed how often we never hear the end results of any type testing???

Says initially it was not believed to be foul play, and yet it's still under investigation by LHPD months later. I also would like to know what happened to the agent. He lived very close to Marshall's right hand man. According to her obituary, her dad lives in Mill Hall, so that coupled with last name leaves me wondering if there were possible connections.

JMO

[Rhododendron]

Says initially it was not believed to be foul play, and yet it's still under investigation by LHPD months later. I also would like to know what happened to the agent. He lived very close to Marshall's right hand man. According to her obituary, her dad lives in Mill Hall, so that coupled with last name leaves me wondering if there were possible connections.

JMO

I can't help you much, lw. Sure wish I could. With no info. coming from authorities on just about anything, I think we need an insider, an informant, someone in-the-know, who could fill us in on all the questions we have. (Make that your New Year's resolution, to find someone like that. LOL!)

[SuperSmith]

Yeah but did you check out her friends list and read her posts on JS pages?

I did read her posts on JS pages. Blasted him pretty good. Someone with a "Jerry Sandusky" page actually responed to her. I wonder if it was really him?

[lw-intuit]

I did read her posts on JS pages. Blasted him pretty good. Someone with a "Jerry Sandusky" page actually responed to her. I wonder if it was really him?

I don't do facebook, so can't check it out. Does the JS page defend him against something she says?

[SuperSmith]

I don't do facebook, so can't check it out. Does the JS page defend him against something she says?

Yes, its a page in support of JS. JS said he wished she would wait until the truth came out during the case and said God bless.

[lw-intuit]

Looking at photos on the net of this park there is certainly is a lot to be searched and not just the lake.

I found another Q&A in the news of 6/04/06 whereby someone questioned whether enough searches were done, other than right at the river where the car was found ----All kinds of ponds, wooded areas, mountains, streams and creeks, outside of Lewisburg, in both directions, not that far out of someone's way to go further down the road and dump a body......
Answer: The entire region was thoroughly seached by men, cadaver dogs and scuba divers. PSP searched by air. No body found----

What the 'entire region' encompassed, dunno, but when I read it, I thought 'region' would have likely included the route it was believed he traveled, considering there was no direction that we are aware of leading away from the river. If the laptop was tossed from the bridge, out of a vehicle, the vehicle would have been traveling into Lewisburg so that's no help. The walkway on the bridge is on the opposite side, down river, so that's no help either as to direction 'away'.

JMO

[lw-intuit]

Still going back through stacks of old print-outs and I found this and can't remember what this is in reference to ---- on May 27, 2006, someone writes some questions, one of which is 'what happened to the man who threatened him in the courthouse? It was recorded by a television station.'
Answer-----Nothing ever panned out------Police checked (them) thoroughly.

Does anyone recall what that was about? If so, could someone refresh my memory, please and thanks?
JMO

[lw-intuit]

Just found something else that I didn't remember as having been 'confirmed' and yet this states it was confirmed that there was an 'actual' witness who said there was a 'man talking to a man' in the Mini that day-------written on 5/10/06-in answer to a question from 4/23/06..........

' A psychic told Bellefonte police that there was a man who looked something like a construction worker who spoke to Gricar through the passenger-side window of the prosecutor's red and white Mini Coooper. The psychic was correct, lead investigator Darrell Zaccagi said. Police want to talk with that man who, at least one actual witness said, was talking to a man in a Mini Cooper in that Lewisburg parking lot the day Gricar disappeared.'

That's not to say that the man was RG and not someone parking the car telling someone else how to 'leave' the car especially if the driver was somehow coerced into the task of driving it there. Doubt that it would have been JS, since he'd likely have been wearing PSU clothing! (and definitely doesn't look like a construction worker.) Why no details on height, weight, hair color and length of hair, approximate age, etc. They give out detailed information on a female that is said to have been simply a means to get some media attention going a year later while, according to this same group of papers I am reviewing, that theory of another woman had already been dismissed by police, yet they can't give out details from a supposedly 'actual witness'? What exactly does 'looked something like a construction worker mean'?

JMO

[star1110shine]

Just found something else that I didn't remember as having been 'confirmed' and yet this states it was confirmed that there was an 'actual' witness who said there was a 'man talking to a man' in the Mini that day-------written on 5/10/06-in answer to a question from 4/23/06..........

' A psychic told Bellefonte police that there was a man who looked something like a construction worker who spoke to Gricar through the passenger-side window of the prosecutor's red and white Mini Coooper. The psychic was correct, lead investigator Darrell Zaccagi said. Police want to talk with that man who, at least one actual witness said, was talking to a man in a Mini Cooper in that Lewisburg parking lot the day Gricar disappeared.'

That's not to say that the man was RG and not someone parking the car telling someone else how to 'leave' the car especially if the driver was somehow coerced into the task of driving it there. Doubt that it would have been JS, since he'd likely have been wearing PSU clothing! (and definitely doesn't look like a construction worker.) Why no details on height, weight, hair color and length of hair, approximate age, etc. They give out detailed information on a female that is said to have been simply a means to get some media attention going a year later while, according to this same group of papers I am reviewing, that theory of another woman had already been dismissed by police, yet they can't give out details from a supposedly 'actual witness'? What exactly does 'looked something like a construction worker mean'?

JMO

Possibly someone with work boots on and either a uniform like custodians wear or jeans and possibly a tool belt. Also most likely a hat on that matched a uniform or had a decal of constructon like symbology.

LW for days I been thinking about the blue and white thing you told us about at Penns cave. It now reminds me of the Penn state emblem.

[star1110shine]

The dream starts out with a book with a page opened with only some pages behind the page it had me look on. My eyes did not see anything but the word Tom Corbet at the bottom of the left hand side of the page. The second t that belonged in the spelling of TC's name was missing. I noticed that the book had many pages left to get to the end of it.

Then the word Jim appeared right after that.

Then I was shifted into a scene with a angry lady prosecutor that was having a hearing with TC's wife which the lady prosecutor called her Sue. Also at this point I knew that Jim was somehow connected to Sue, just a direct knowing moment.
I also was to have a direct knowing that TC's wife tried to have him killed. There was no proof that she did tho.
She caused a fire and was claiming things on the insurance that angered the prosecutor lady.

You had a prosecutor lady with brown hair shoulder length, straight and parted in the middle with glasses on, that couldn't prove a arson and insurance fraud or a attempted foul play.

Prosecutor lady started counting how many things that was claimed on the insurance papers.
She was flaming mad.

Sue had claimed her wedding frame, his pants and colored nail polish.

The prosecutor lady began to yell at Sue saying" 12 bottles of Colored nail polish"? "yes mam".
"you claimed 52 pairs of pants? He wore 52 pairs of p-a-n-t-s"? "yes mam".
"you claimed 13 picture Frames including your wedding frame?" "yes mam".
"Did you attempt to kill your husband?" "no I did not".
"Did you set the fire"? "no I did not".

Thats when I awoke. Im trying to understand it still. I just wanted to keep my word and share it.

[SuperSmith]

"In previous discussions, I stated that the two most probable general theories to explain Mr. Gricar’s disappearance are that he was the victim of a crime or that he voluntarily went missing. Based on what is currently public information, I have argued that crime victim is slightly more likely considering two details of the case--the recovered locations of the laptop computer and hard drive and the fact that someone was evidently inside Mr. Gricar’s vehicle smoking-—something that he reportedly would not have likely permitted.

Now, if I argue that Mr. Gricar met with foul play, I’ll need to take an educated guess as to where to find evidence of such an act—and that is the purpose of this post. If Mr. Gricar was a crime victim, where is a likely place to look to help bring a resolution to the case?

Before I start with my thoughts, I want to say that I have no connection to the investigation. Authorities may have searched the area that I describe comprehensively and found nothing –either initially or in subsequent follow-ups. I can say that I have not seen any mention of police searching this specific location as reported by the press. With that in mind, here goes…

For persons to have hidden a body, they likely would have selected a secluded yet convenient area. For long-term secrecy, persons would prefer a location that would be away from the general public; especially hunting and fishing enthusiasts. Note: This also leaves open the possibility that persons selected a location to conceal a crime without knowing that it represented a good place to hide the act over the long-term .

Since it can be argued that Mr. Gricar’s laptop was thrown from a vehicle off of the Lewisburg Bridge, from this perspective, it also then makes sense to believe that the subjects may have been returning from disposing the body and were driving west on Rt. 45 when crossing the bridge.

As a result, the location of any crime scene would be more likely to be east of Lewisburg-—and perhaps, not far at all. Further, considering that the computer was dumped so close to the recovered vehicle location, it may mean that the subjects were trying to flee hastily—perhaps after dumping the body very nearby.

That leads to a question: if the body was hidden nearby why has it not been found? Is there somewhere close that would not be frequented by hikers, hunters, and persons carrying fishing rods? I say emphatically “yes”—there is one location that meets all of these descriptors mentioned and it is called the Montandon Marsh.

The Marsh consists of 500 acres of wetlands (77 acres are protected) and is adjacent to Rt. 45 approximately 3/10 of a mile east of the Lewisburg Bridge. The property consists of sand dunes interspersed with swamps and marshes, at least two ponds, and vehicular traffic on its access road is restricted by an iron gate (Note: I am only familiar with the primary access road—there may be another way into the area via vehicle).

The Marsh is owned by Central Builders Supply who mines sand and gravel from the site. Hunting and fishing is not open to the public on the lands, and the acres are bordered by Rt. 405 to the west and a trailer park on the east.

A local university has several on-going educational projects at the Marsh, but the foot traffic to the area is negligible. As one can imagine with faculty and students, they are not consistently roaming the wetlands, but rather collecting soil samples, retrieving measurement information, and performing other low-impact activities so as not to disturb local wildlife. As a result, these folks are not trampling all over the land. The quarry part of the Marsh experiences much more daytime activity—as trucks and workers are present during the week.

This is how scientists describe the Marsh:

Montandon Marsh is one of the few remaining diverse riparian wetlands ecosystems in central Pennsylvania, along the west branch of the Susquehanna River. Its environmental significance has been hailed by local and regional conservancy groups because of its role as a refuge for migratory waterfowl, as a permanent home for many wetlands birds, and as home to the rare spade-foot toad.

Marsh plant communities are diverse; containing sundew, sphagnum, and cranberry characteristic of Pocono bogs, while it is also home to bulrush and sedge communities normally found on the Atlantic coastal plain.

An aerial view of the quarry and protected marshland can be viewed here.

Could subjects have accessed the Montandon Marsh area in the dark and hidden a body? How frequently is the access gate locked to the property? Was anything unusual noticed in the weeks before and after Mr. Gricar’s disappearance? Was this area searched? Did the university have many projects active during the summer immediately after the disappearance?

Unfortunately, I do not know the answers to these questions, but the presence of a private area of sand hills and swamplands so close to the Lewisburg Bridge that would offer limited to no visibility from the Rt. 45 (in my opinion) should make the Marsh an area of interest for authorities.

One final note on the Marsh—Gricar case follower FD who participated in my question and answer session Part X mentioned something interesting in an email regarding the recovered locations of evidence/items from the Gricar case. He stated something to the effect that the locations of the recovered car, the hard drive, and the computer almost seem to represent a line of bread crumbs moving from west to east.

If one continues with that thinking, further evidence/items of the case should be found east of and in close proximity to the Lewisburg Bridge—again, this is consistent with the location of the swampy area less than ½ mile east of the parked car site known as the Montandon Marsh.

And that is all for now on the RG case..."


This is a comment I found on the case. Can anyone poke a hole in this theory by the female commentor.

[2-B]

SS, isn't that Slamdunk's Montandan Marsh theory? I'm too lazy at the moment to look it up.

[lw-intuit]

Uhhhhggg I feel sick. I hate to tell you my friends but the more I dig the more i am coming under the impression that our great Mr. Corbett is involved to a degree with Ray's disappearance. Every corner I turn I smell a skunk. Hope I'm wrong

I believe this case was a cover-up from day one, as well as also believing that MM and the AG were two of the first to be notified of the disappearance. I believe the strings to this investigation have always been pulled by AG office, and carried out, IMO, by local servant(s) placed in charge of keeping the lid on all things related.

On 5/10/06 the answer to a question as to WHY was DetZ on the case---------

'Officer Zaccagni caught the case at the beginning and he has remained the lead investigator. But he has been aided by fellow Bellefonte police officers, Pennsylvania State Police, the FBI, U.S. Secret Service and the Pennsylvania Attorney General's Office. Also, Centre County District Attorney Michael Madeira, who worked for years as a prosecutor in the Attorney General's office, has been keeping close tabs on the investigation.'

I believe if the list of those who aided is flipped around and read from end to beginning instead, there's the line-up. Basically, after DD was 'retired', after detective TThal was pushed into a back seat, there was one man on the case, DetZ, who I believe reported in on everything first found and was then sent on assignment to chauffeur CB around and told to make it look important, knowing full well from prior local experience where that would go------ nowhere, which, IMO, is exactly where someone wanted it to go.

It's not like those from the AG office/local drug task force, weren't familiar with 'who's who' in BPD from day one, and upon hearing the news of RG's disappearance, didn't know who would 'serve' best as 'lead'. DetZ 'catching' the case is like Noonan 'catching' the Sandusky case, IMO----one man on the job who would follow orders without question. I don't think when he finally left it was because he would no longer follow orders, but because there were too many questioning who put him in position to begin with. As long as they had someone 'gone', they had someone else to blame it on; DD. Time to bring in new troops when the questioning got too close, IMO.

Five months after MM is in place as DA, the family calls for the case to be moved higher. Instead MM uses a ploy, giving the appearance of taking it higher, with DetZ joining it to drag his feet for months 'preparing' two boxes of files. Thereafter the review is repeatedly postponed stating it's too hard to get all of the PSP together, as if it's the entire PSP, when instead it's a group who work together all the time.

That delay, of the same ilk, has not only been repeated in the RG, same sheeple on board, different lead, is the same as we see happening in the JS case. IMO, it's not delay----it's timed control; sheeple in position giving appearance of propriety when it is instead manipulation to control. The appearance the case is being pushed 'up', is instead those who are put in place are those under the control of the AG office. They don't want to lose their jobs anymore than the two janitors did. Wrong-wrong-wrong! I'd lose a job every day of the week if it meant if would stop someone from being hurt. I see NO difference between the 'teamwork' then and the 'teamwork' now who to this day work to keep all relevant information firmly in hands that control. My theory on that is------if there is nothing to hide, there is no need for control, then or now.

'Transparency' is only in word, never in deed, in this case and in JS case. While we are told that the lack of 'transparency' is because putting information out to the public could ruin an investigation----------these are the same investigations that go on for years and years; the JS case, the RG case, the OD case in Clinton County, that served NO good purpose in keeping secrets while others are hurt.

If the JS case is the example to learn from, it was never really about the need for a lack of 'transparency' for investigative purpose----it was about hiding secrets for personal gain. I think there are a few more secrets that will come out before all is said and done in the JS case and Clinton County involvement, as well as the RG case.

JMO

[2-B]

If the JS case is the example to learn from, it was never really about the need for a lack of 'transparency' for investigative purpose----it was about hiding secrets for personal gain.

It has certainly been difficult not to suspect this for a long time in the RG case. Compared to so many missing persons' cases--even compared to so many murder cases--the lack of available public information has been glaring, even down to small things like the kind of sneakers RG was wearing or the kind of sunglasses that were missing, simple things that might have helped the public identify clues. And that's not even mentioning things we've called for, like release of the redacted phone records.

The lack of transparency has never really made sense in light of the purported theories. If police believe(d) Gricar walked away or committed suicide, why the need to keep anything from the public? And if they believe(d) foul play to be the case, why the apparent standstill?

JMO.

[SuperSmith]

SS, isn't that Slamdunk's Montandan Marsh theory? I'm too lazy at the moment to look it up.

Not sure. This is the source. Interesting reading

http://25missingpersons.proboards.co...ay&thread=1012

[2-B]

Not sure. This is the source. Interesting reading

http://25missingpersons.proboards.co...ay&thread=1012

As I thought, SS. Here's the original source, which proboards folks didn't list for some reason:

This is my eleventh (am I long-winded or what) and last planned post on the Ray Gricar missing person case. . . .

http://theslamdunktrove.blogspot.com...ng-person.html

Slamdunk has a good buddy whom you'll recognize, especially if you read all eleven parts.

[SuperSmith]

As I thought, SS. Here's the original source, which proboards folks didn't list for some reason:

This is my eleventh (am I long-winded or what) and last planned post on the Ray Gricar missing person case. . . .

http://theslamdunktrove.blogspot.com...ng-person.html

Slamdunk has a good buddy whom you'll recognize, especially if you read all eleven parts.

The good buddy being JJ I assume? So you discredit the Marsh as a possible location?

[2-B]

The good buddy being JJ I assume? So you discredit the Marsh as a possible location?

I don't necessarily rule out Gricar's remains being anywhere, SS. But the theory SD posts starts with the assumption that Gricar was in Lewisburg and that his abductors disposed of the laptop at the same time they abducted Gricar.

I don't necessarily support either of those premises because the evidence doesn't appear to support them. Ergo, I think his theory is flawed, based as it is on flawed premises.

[SuperSmith]

I don't necessarily rule out Gricar's remains being anywhere, SS. But the theory SD posts starts with the assumption that Gricar was in Lewisburg and that his abductors disposed of the laptop at the same time they abducted Gricar.

I don't necessarily support either of those premises because the evidence doesn't appear to support them. Ergo, I think his theory is flawed, based as it is on flawed premises.

It doesn't match my theory as I have come to the conclusion that the laptop and then the hard drive were thrown in the river after the searches were done. I don't have much to back that up other than my gut feeling and a hunch.

[2-B]

It doesn't match my theory as I have come to the conclusion that the laptop and then the hard drive were thrown in the river after the searches were done. I don't have much to back that up other than my gut feeling and a hunch.

Talk to S1. I believe what he has reported to us. That's good for starters for me.

And logically, the laptop and hard drive seemed to magically appear at a time when the focus of the investigation seemed to be turning away from "walkaway from Lewisburg" to the possibility of foul play. Many of us thought it magically appeared as a way to re-direct the focus to Lewisburg. (Funny how someone always wants to keep us "Stuck in Lewisburg.")

Then there's the fact that we've never learned who the finders of the laptop or the stone skipping finders of the hard drive were.

None of that proves the laptop and hard drive were placed in the river after the fact, but it's all suggestive that the theory needs to be considered, IMO.

[SuperSmith]

Kind of a strange site.

http://www.textmap.com/person/ray-gricar.htm

[star1110shine]

There may be a connection here if you are on facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/Dbbyl8664

One of our ex posters SJ is a friend of hers.

[Cowgirl]

I got a pop up message from my AV suite that the site was attempting to run a malicious script. The person or people are obviously logging IP addresses and possibly more.
I won't be going back... People who care about Ray Gricar don't need to be spied upon.

[lw-intuit]

Bringing this statement by Cowgirl over from the declaration of death thread since my response involves intuition.

'Is anything more known about the lake than was posted this past summer? Was it partially drained? Has any diver been contacted ( I guess it will have to be done next spring since it is so cold in PA now).'

Not certain if you are referring to Raystown Lake where RG was said to be near on Thursday before disappearance, or if you are referring to the map photos of Rose Valley Lake and what I see floating in the water there. If it is Raystown you are referring to, then Star will have to help you there since that is not anywhere near what I have found, and where I believe disposal took place.

The lake I checked out on Google Earth is straight across the map to the east of the Star's camp area, and someone knowing that area is likely to have known about or had some connection to the lake.

2-B assisted by pulling up the photo of what I see there. It is under the Legal Petition thread, posted on 7-28-11. IMO, the 4/3 magnification under water causes the object to appear larger. My theory is that if the grave couldn't be used, a location that didn't require digging would have been necessary. That's when I found this, first on 10-26-10 when I posted and said 'look at this', but didn't know how to show it as a photo on board. Same with what I see back Cherry Run Rd. with what appears to be the red and white Mini. The dates shown do not coincide with what the original dates were. They have been changed.

In so far as what's going on out at that lake, and searching, it appears the only thing being searched for there is MS gas. This article says Luzerne Co., but it is incorrect----RVLake is in Lycoming Co. There is no RVLake in Luzerne Co.

http://outdoornews.com/pennsylvania/...cc4c03286.html

If you read the comments under this next article, you can see what is happening out at the lake.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/ind...omments-2.html

http://www.sungazette.com/page/conte....html?nav=5011

This is especially interesting for me because it matches a dream I had many years ago, sending me out searching for a gas line over a mountain, but I could hear water running through the pipes, not gas. The uniformed man standing at a podium directing the diggers with noisy equipment back in the woods I can now interpret as being a DCNR official overseeing MShale gas line. There was also a 'fireplace' on the mountain, and if you've ever seen photos of the huge flare that comes out of one of the gas wells, it is what I believe the 'fireplace' meant in my dream. Only took me years to find what I believe is the correct location in that dream.

JMO

[Cowgirl]

Thank you for such a great reply. I did mean the lake called Rose Valley Lake.

I know next to nothing about what possibly transpired on April 14th at Raystown Lake. I don't know where to look for more info about that one day now either.