Conspiracy Theories

[tv]

TV,

Do you really think MF was going to say or write, "I knew I was going to be accused of racial remarks and so right then and there I decided to lie."

Do you really expect him to have said that or wrote that?

However, you refuse to with MF's statement on the tapes, in July 1994 about if he goes down, the glove goes down, the case goes bye-bye and Clark knows it.

I know you will take the your route, you go off on another issue, you will completely ignore the fact, the FACT, that MF knew he was Clark's nightmare.

And I should have been more specific, he taunted Chris Darden every chance when getting ready to testify. He was so disrespectful in the mock cross, he ate a sandwich rather then cooperate with Darden. All because Darden was black and Darden was responsible for getting his buddy kicked off the force for using racial remarks.

You ignore the facts TV, but thats okay, because everybody knows it.

Mark Fuhrman didn't say what you wanted him to so you'll just make up what you what him to think and say. You can put FACT in caps all you want but it doesn't make it so. Mark Fuhrman never said he was Marcia's Clark's nightmare. Besides, according to your other post, she wanted to lose the case and that's why she got the jury she wanted. You need to find a story and stick with it.

[GreenIce]

Mark Fuhrman didn't say what you wanted him to so you'll just make up what you what him to think and say. You can put FACT in caps all you want but it doesn't make it so. Mark Fuhrman never said he was Marcia's Clark's nightmare. Besides, according to your other post, she wanted to lose the case and that's why she got the jury she wanted. You need to find a story and stick with it.

TV,

You are amazing. Still don't deal with the FACT he did say that he was the most important witnesses in the trial of the century and that if he went down, the glove went down, the case goes bye-bye and Clark knows it.

Why you take a shot at what you think he meant? It is funny, you have no problem expressing your feelings on what Simpson or his lawyers meant when they said certain things, but when it comes your boy Fuhrman, you stop being a mind reader. The reader of the riot act over the unethical lawyering done by the defense.

Yet, you say nothing, knowing Clark put a witness on the stand knowing he was going to committ perjury and you have nothing to say about MF bragging about how important he was and what would happen if he went down.

Why is that?

[tv]

TV,

You are amazing. Still don't deal with the FACT he did say that he was the most important witnesses in the trial of the century and that if he went down, the glove went down, the case goes bye-bye and Clark knows it.

Why you take a shot at what you think he meant? It is funny, you have no problem expressing your feelings on what Simpson or his lawyers meant when they said certain things, but when it comes your boy Fuhrman, you stop being a mind reader. The reader of the riot act over the unethical lawyering done by the defense.

Yet, you say nothing, knowing Clark put a witness on the stand knowing he was going to committ perjury and you have nothing to say about MF bragging about how important he was and what would happen if he went down.

Why is that?

I'm trying to overlook your personal remarks tonight but you starting to cross the line as usual. Please make an effort to knock it off.

I don't make anything of what Mark Fuhrman said. You read too much into it because you're desperate to make your boy Simpson look innocent. You can't put what Mark Fuhrman says and thinks out there without something to back it up. Whatever I say about Simpson I back up with his statements, known events in his life or evidence in the case. Sorry, you just don't have the facts to back up your statements.

[GreenIce]

I'm trying to overlook your personal remarks tonight but you starting to cross the line as usual. Please make an effort to knock it off.

I don't make anything of what Mark Fuhrman said. You read too much into it because you're desperate to make your boy Simpson look innocent. You can't put what Mark Fuhrman says and thinks out there without something to back it up. Whatever I say about Simpson I back up with his statements, known events in his life or evidence in the case. Sorry, you just don't have the facts to back up your statements.

TV,

I just want to make sure I understand what you are saying.

You do not believe MF said what he said about being the most important witness and what would happen if he went down, etc.? Is that it?

What MF said has nothing to do with Simpson's guilt or innocence. It is much more important than that.

And I use the same things you do to support my posts. We are not that different--as scarey as that is. :0

[tv]

TV,

I just want to make sure I understand what you are saying.

You do not believe MF said what he said about being the most important witness and what would happen if he went down, etc.? Is that it?

What MF said has nothing to do with Simpson's guilt or innocence. It is much more important than that.

And I use the same things you do to support my posts. We are not that different--as scarey as that is. :0

I didn't say he didn't say it. I just don't put the importance on it that you do. You do not use the same things that I do to support your posts. You are imagining what you want Mark Fuhrman to have said or done as in 'planning to lie.' You're presenting that as a fact and you have nothing to support it.

[GreenIce]

I didn't say he didn't say it. I just don't put the importance on it that you do. You do not use the same things that I do to support your posts. You are imagining what you want Mark Fuhrman to have said or done as in 'planning to lie.' You're presenting that as a fact and you have nothing to support it.

TV,

The fact is that he did say it and he said it so soon after the murders, he also know that Clark knows that he is her case--or the glove is her case.

If he was not planning to lie, then he would have told truth from the very beginning. I also believe that Clark knew all about him before he ever took the stand.

MC and BH were told by other DA's about MF. I am sure that GG also knew about him. To say the accusations about MF were totally dismissed by them is just unbelieveable. They had an obligation to investigate MF. And even after this was done, they still put him on the stand. Why?

[tv]

TV,

The fact is that he did say it and he said it so soon after the murders, he also know that Clark knows that he is her case--or the glove is her case.

If he was not planning to lie, then he would have told truth from the very beginning. I also believe that Clark knew all about him before he ever took the stand.

MC and BH were told by other DA's about MF. I am sure that GG also knew about him. To say the accusations about MF were totally dismissed by them is just unbelieveable. They had an obligation to investigate MF. And even after this was done, they still put him on the stand. Why?

If you're talking about his use of a racial epithet -- that wasn't material to the case. If you're talking about the glove and his work in the investigation -- he didn't lie.

It's been posted here many times that four different government agencies investigated Mark Fuhrman and didn't come up with one case of wrongdoing by him. You really need to give this up and focus on the actual facts and evidence of the case against OJ Simpson.

[GreenIce]

TV,

Please note I have used under signature line quote or saying for the title of this post.

I suggest your read MF's shrink reports from when he tried to rip off the City of LA because he got tired of being a cop. He showed us who he was even back than.

What does baffle me is that you are a true a champion of the victims in this case, until it comes to Mark Fuhrman. The one man many feel is the reason that their killer is not in jail. (I don't agree with that but I do see the appeal of makilng him the scape goat.)

You defend him at every turn, even at the expense of the DA's. Who he taunted and played with from day one.

I don't get it.

The fact is, MF's racial issues were relevant to the case. It doesn't matter if you agree with it or not. Credibility is always relavent to any case.

[GreenIce]

If you're talking about his use of a racial epithet -- that wasn't material to the case. If you're talking about the glove and his work in the investigation -- he didn't lie.

It's been posted here many times that four different government agencies investigated Mark Fuhrman and didn't come up with one case of wrongdoing by him. You really need to give this up and focus on the actual facts and evidence of the case against OJ Simpson.

TV,

The fact is that the quote I have asked you about has nothing to do with his use of a racial epithet. It has everything to do with him knowing that he was crucial to the case and that if he went down, the glove goes down and the case goes bye-bye and Clark knew it. All this in July 1994.

IMO, it appears to me this this detective has more power than he should have. Again, IMO.

The fact is govenment experts spend two years evaluating MF and they came pretty much to the same conclusion about what type of person MF is. However, to fair to MF, he told them what he was, it is not his fault he was put back on the force.

And if you listen to MF's tapes, he explains in detail on how you can beat these investigations. That is also a fact.

[tv]

TV,

The fact is that the quote I have asked you about has nothing to do with his use of a racial epithet. It has everything to do with him knowing that he was crucial to the case and that if he went down, the glove goes down and the case goes bye-bye and Clark knew it. All this in July 1994.

IMO, it appears to me this this detective has more power than he should have. Again, IMO.

The fact is govenment experts spend two years evaluating MF and they came pretty much to the same conclusion about what type of person MF is. However, to fair to MF, he told them what he was, it is not his fault he was put back on the force.

And if you listen to MF's tapes, he explains in detail on how you can beat these investigations. That is also a fact.

I'll try to make this as clear as I can. I believe that OJ Simpson killed the mother of his children, Nicole Brown Simpson and her friend Ronald Goldman. I believe he acted alone and that he was enraged with Nicole when he committed the crimes.

I believe that the evidence against him is overwhelming. I'm referring to the timeline, motive and, most importantly of all, the DNA -- which is irrefutable.

I believe that Mark Fuhrman's work on the case, as well as the other detectives, lab personnel and criminalists was performed honorably throughout the investigation.

I believe that whatever problems that Mark Fuhrman had or is perceived to have had are constantly discussed in this forum by those who profess OJ Simpson's innocence as a means to deflect blame from OJ Simpson. Mark Fuhrman gets way more post time on this board than OJ Simpson.

You are wrong about the government investigations. Four agencies investigated him and came up with nothing. Marcia Clark herself tried to get something on him and was unable. I have said before and I'll repeat now that I'm not defending him in any way except for his work on the investigation. The rest of it is irrelevant to me because I've seen nothing that proves he ever framed any suspect or did any of the things that you and others are convinced he did.

Yes, I'm a champion for the victims -- not the ones murdered by Mark Fuhrman but the ones murdered by OJ Simpson. I can see it really bothers you that I won't jump on your 'Mark Fuhrman is the devil' bandwagon but I'm not going to do it. You should know that by now.

Speaking of credibility...care to discuss OJ Simpson's civil trial testimony in another thread?

[Its just me]

I'll try to make this as clear as I can. I believe that OJ Simpson killed the mother of his children, Nicole Brown Simpson and her friend Ronald Goldman. I believe he acted alone and that he was enraged with Nicole when he committed the crimes.

I believe that the evidence against him is overwhelming. I'm referring to the timeline, motive and, most importantly of all, the DNA -- which is irrefutable.

I believe that Mark Fuhrman's work on the case, as well as the other detectives, lab personnel and criminalists was performed honorably throughout the investigation.

I believe that whatever problems that Mark Fuhrman had or is perceived to have had are constantly discussed in this forum by those who profess OJ Simpson's innocence as a means to deflect blame from OJ Simpson. Mark Fuhrman gets way more post time on this board than OJ Simpson.

You are wrong about the government investigations. Four agencies investigated him and came up with nothing. Marcia Clark herself tried to get something on him and was unable. I have said before and I'll repeat now that I'm not defending him in any way except for his work on the investigation. The rest of it is irrelevant to me because I've seen nothing that proves he ever framed any suspect or did any of the things that you and others are convinced he did.

Yes, I'm a champion for the victims -- not the ones murdered by Mark Fuhrman but the ones murdered by OJ Simpson. I can see it really bothers you that I won't jump on your 'Mark Fuhrman is the devil' bandwagon but I'm not going to do it. You should know that by now.

Speaking of credibility...care to discuss OJ Simpson's civil trial testimony in another thread?

Well stated. I have the same opinions. Just passing thru and had to give you a

[tv]

Well stated. I have the same opinions. Just passing thru and had to give you a

Thanks, IJM. I just wanted to clear up, once again, my position on Mark Fuhrman and the others who worked on the investigation. The focus never seems to be on the evidence and the facts of the crimes but on whoever might have it in for OJ Simpson. The funny thing is that no one had it in for OJ Simpson -- it's a smoke screen to make him look like he was unfairly set up for the murders. I didn't buy it then and I'm not buying it now.

to you too, dear. I wish you'd stop in more often.

[GreenIce]

I'll try to make this as clear as I can. I believe that OJ Simpson killed the mother of his children, Nicole Brown Simpson and her friend Ronald Goldman. I believe he acted alone and that he was enraged with Nicole when he committed the crimes.

I believe that the evidence against him is overwhelming. I'm referring to the timeline, motive and, most importantly of all, the DNA -- which is irrefutable.

I believe that Mark Fuhrman's work on the case, as well as the other detectives, lab personnel and criminalists was performed honorably throughout the investigation.

I believe that whatever problems that Mark Fuhrman had or is perceived to have had are constantly discussed in this forum by those who profess OJ Simpson's innocence as a means to deflect blame from OJ Simpson. Mark Fuhrman gets way more post time on this board than OJ Simpson.

You are wrong about the government investigations. Four agencies investigated him and came up with nothing. Marcia Clark herself tried to get something on him and was unable. I have said before and I'll repeat now that I'm not defending him in any way except for his work on the investigation. The rest of it is irrelevant to me because I've seen nothing that proves he ever framed any suspect or did any of the things that you and others are convinced he did.

Yes, I'm a champion for the victims -- not the ones murdered by Mark Fuhrman but the ones murdered by OJ Simpson. I can see it really bothers you that I won't jump on your 'Mark Fuhrman is the devil' bandwagon but I'm not going to do it. You should know that by now.

Speaking of credibility...care to discuss OJ Simpson's civil trial testimony in another thread?

TV,

I have never accused MF of killing Ron and Nicole.

Your understanding of honorable and my understanding are billions and billions of miles apart.

I have not read Simpson's civil trial testimony so pick a subject and I will read it and we can discuss it on the proper thread.

[GreenIce]

I'll try to make this as clear as I can. I believe that OJ Simpson killed the mother of his children, Nicole Brown Simpson and her friend Ronald Goldman. I believe he acted alone and that he was enraged with Nicole when he committed the crimes.

I believe that the evidence against him is overwhelming. I'm referring to the timeline, motive and, most importantly of all, the DNA -- which is irrefutable.

I believe that Mark Fuhrman's work on the case, as well as the other detectives, lab personnel and criminalists was performed honorably throughout the investigation.

I believe that whatever problems that Mark Fuhrman had or is perceived to have had are constantly discussed in this forum by those who profess OJ Simpson's innocence as a means to deflect blame from OJ Simpson. Mark Fuhrman gets way more post time on this board than OJ Simpson.

You are wrong about the government investigations. Four agencies investigated him and came up with nothing. Marcia Clark herself tried to get something on him and was unable. I have said before and I'll repeat now that I'm not defending him in any way except for his work on the investigation. The rest of it is irrelevant to me because I've seen nothing that proves he ever framed any suspect or did any of the things that you and others are convinced he did.

Yes, I'm a champion for the victims -- not the ones murdered by Mark Fuhrman but the ones murdered by OJ Simpson. I can see it really bothers you that I won't jump on your 'Mark Fuhrman is the devil' bandwagon but I'm not going to do it. You should know that by now.

Speaking of credibility...care to discuss OJ Simpson's civil trial testimony in another thread?

TV,

I have also posted many times that all the evidence could have been planted and that does not mean that Simpson is innocent.

And I do believe that it is very possible that at least one or two issues raised by the defense may have been nothing more than honest mistakes.

IMO, any honorable work that was done by any of the state's witnesses losts its value and credibility because of the LAPD and the SID team.

DNA can tell you who's blood it is or isn't, but it does not tell you how and when it got there which is also cruical to its value, IMO.

[tv]

TV,

I have never accused MF of killing Ron and Nicole.

Your understanding of honorable and my understanding are billions and billions of miles apart.

I have not read Simpson's civil trial testimony so pick a subject and I will read it and we can discuss it on the proper thread.

Exactly.

[weezer]

there has never been any evidence that the bindles were switched.

The facts were that AM expected her intial to be on the bendels where she had put them . she did not know they had been switched. caught her by surprise because she was not told they were switched.the defense had nothing to do with that. they just uncovered the switch.

[GreenIce]

Exactly.

TV,

Not exactly sure what your exactly means.

MF did not murder Ron and Nicole, but he did murder his own credbility along the three other detectives and the DA's. And that is a fact.

[tv]

TV,

Not exactly sure what your exactly means.

MF did not murder Ron and Nicole, but he did murder his own credbility along the three other detectives and the DA's. And that is a fact.

No, disagree. He lied about a matter not material to the case and was made an example. That was his only credibility lapse. If you have evidence of any investigation that says otherwise please post it.

I don't see how Mark Fuhrman affected the credibilty of any detectives. Care to explain? Lange and Vannatter stood behind Mark Furhrman's work on the investigation and they had every reason to do so.

[GreenIce]

No, disagree. He lied about a matter not material to the case and was made an example. That was his only credibility lapse. If you have evidence of any investigation that says otherwise please post it.

I don't see how Mark Fuhrman affected the credibilty of any detectives. Care to explain? Lange and Vannatter stood behind Mark Furhrman's work on the investigation and they had every reason to do so.

TV,

I don't believe MF planted the glove because of his racial views. I do think the defense had to pursue that but that was not the only reason they used in regards to MF. I think there are other reasons that carry more weight than his racial views.

One of the detectives sat in on MF's testimony, I think in the prelim hearing, but I am not sure, to lend support to him. That was the first time the detective ever heard of the wisps of blood that MF said he saw.

What choice did they have but to stand by his work? And what about the battle they waged after the trial?

[tv]

TV,

I don't believe MF planted the glove because of his racial views. I do think the defense had to pursue that but that was not the only reason they used in regards to MF. I think there are other reasons that carry more weight than his racial views.

One of the detectives sat in on MF's testimony, I think in the prelim hearing, but I am not sure, to lend support to him. That was the first time the detective ever heard of the wisps of blood that MF said he saw.

What choice did they have but to stand by his work? And what about the battle they waged after the trial?

Who is the detective that was in the prelim to support Mark Fuhrman?

What is the reason you believe he planted the glove?

Lange and Vannatter didn't have to stand behind Mark Fuhrman's work. Why would they? No matter their differences after the trial Lange and Vannatter have always maintained that Mark Fuhrman did not plant the glove. They explain this very well in their book.

[GreenIce]

Who is the detective that was in the prelim to support Mark Fuhrman?

What is the reason you believe he planted the glove?

Lange and Vannatter didn't have to stand behind Mark Fuhrman's work. Why would they? No matter their differences after the trial Lange and Vannatter have always maintained that Mark Fuhrman did not plant the glove. They explain this very well in their book.

TV,

I want to say it was Vanatter. But I am not sure. I will have to look at their book.

I believe he had no doubt that OJ Simpson was the killer. I believe he went to Rockingham well before the time given and knew that Simpson was not home. I believe he knew the media was going to be all over this and he knew he belonged in the elite RHD department and he was pissed that he was passed over for it.

Again, how could they say anything else? How could they say the believe he planted the glove? I think VA's first search warrant is proof they suspected something was just not right with the glove and with MF.

Again, do you really think that MF would plant the glovw in front of them?

[tv]

TV,

I want to say it was Vanatter. But I am not sure. I will have to look at their book.

I believe he had no doubt that OJ Simpson was the killer. I believe he went to Rockingham well before the time given and knew that Simpson was not home. I believe he knew the media was going to be all over this and he knew he belonged in the elite RHD department and he was pissed that he was passed over for it.

Again, how could they say anything else? How could they say the believe he planted the glove? I think VA's first search warrant is proof they suspected something was just not right with the glove and with MF.

Again, do you really think that MF would plant the glovw in front of them?

Where do you get the information that Mark Fuhrman was mad at being passed over? Also, if he was convinced OJS was the killer then he believed that the evidence would tell the tale. No reason for him to plant anything. No one saw a second glove at Bundy and everyone at the scene had to sign in and out. There is no indication from anywhere that Mark Fuhrman went to Rockingham before accompanying Lange, Vannatter and Phillips. There's nothing in the search warrant that points to Vannatter believing Mark Fuhrman planted the glove. I see no factual support for any of these theories.

[GreenIce]

Where do you get the information that Mark Fuhrman was mad at being passed over? Also, if he was convinced OJS was the killer then he believed that the evidence would tell the tale. No reason for him to plant anything. No one saw a second glove at Bundy and everyone at the scene had to sign in and out. There is no indication from anywhere that Mark Fuhrman went to Rockingham before accompanying Lange, Vannatter and Phillips. There's nothing in the search warrant that points to Vannatter believing Mark Fuhrman planted the glove. I see no factual support for any of these theories.

TV,

Why would anyone, including MF ever ask for a transfer or a promotion into an elite unit? Because they don't think are good enough and just like being denied promotion and/or advancement because it makes them feel better about themselves?

Just because I believe MF does have serious mental issues and I disagree with some of his beliefs, does not mean that the man is an idiot and does not know his job inside and out. I am willing to be that MF knows the rules of evidence and the laws that govern them better then some of the lawyers who passed the bar exam.

MF knew what the officers saw when he arrived at Bundy. It wouldn't not have taken a brilliant man to figure out that only one glove was seen and the second one was not.

ETA---it only make sense that MF would have gone to Rockingham ASAP, he had every legal right to do so. It was a much more believeable reason that they were concerned that Simpson was destroying evidence at Rockingham and/or has already fled.

[martin II]

TV,

Why would anyone, including MF ever ask for a transfer or a promotion into an elite unit? Because they don't think are good enough and just like being denied promotion and/or advancement because it makes them feel better about themselves?

Just because I believe MF does have serious mental issues and I disagree with some of his beliefs, does not mean that the man is an idiot and does not know his job inside and out. I am willing to be that MF knows the rules of evidence and the laws that govern them better then some of the lawyers who passed the bar exam.

MF knew what the officers saw when he arrived at Bundy. It wouldn't not have taken a brilliant man to figure out that only one glove was seen and the second one was not.

ETA---it only make sense that MF would have gone to Rockingham ASAP, he had every legal right to do so. It was a much more believeable reason that they were concerned that Simpson was destroying evidence at Rockingham and/or has already fled.

mf knew how to walk through the rain drops and how not to get cauht doing his thing.

[tv]

TV,

Why would anyone, including MF ever ask for a transfer or a promotion into an elite unit? Because they don't think are good enough and just like being denied promotion and/or advancement because it makes them feel better about themselves?

Just because I believe MF does have serious mental issues and I disagree with some of his beliefs, does not mean that the man is an idiot and does not know his job inside and out. I am willing to be that MF knows the rules of evidence and the laws that govern them better then some of the lawyers who passed the bar exam.

MF knew what the officers saw when he arrived at Bundy. It wouldn't not have taken a brilliant man to figure out that only one glove was seen and the second one was not.

I'm glad this is posted in conspiracy theories.

Once again, where did you get the information that Mark Fuhrman applied for a promotion? Even if he did and was denied, so what? People try for promotions all the time and don't get them. It doesn't mean they do something like set an innocent person up for a murder rap.

What are you basing the diagnosis of 'serious mental issues' on? As far as anyone knows he's led a law abiding, normal existence since being convicted of perjury and did the same before the conviction. Mark Fuhrman is a best selling author and contributor on Fox News.

On the other hand, OJ Simpson has been in several scrapes with the law and several incidences of domestic violence. His latest incident was way more than a scrape and that's why he's not living among the rest of us at this point.

IMO, the kook is OJ Simpson not Mark Fuhrman. I will give OJS this -- he has never expressed even the slightest degree of anger toward Mark Fuhrman because he knows that his work on the investigation was solid and he knows that Mark Fuhrman found the glove where he dropped it when reentering his estate.

[martin II]

Where do you get the information that Mark Fuhrman was mad at being passed over? Also, if he was convinced OJS was the killer then he believed that the evidence would tell the tale. No reason for him to plant anything. No one saw a second glove at Bundy and everyone at the scene had to sign in and out. There is no indication from anywhere that Mark Fuhrman went to Rockingham before accompanying Lange, Vannatter and Phillips. There's nothing in the search warrant that points to Vannatter believing Mark Fuhrman planted the glove. I see no factual support for any of these theories.

where was MF for the ten minutes his supervisor could not find him at bundy.

[tv]

where was MF for the ten minutes his supervisor could not find him at bundy.

Could you give more details? I haven't heard this before that I recall.

[tv]

mf knew how to walk through the rain drops and how not to get cauht doing his thing.

martin, this may come as a shock to you but no one can walk between rain drops.

[GreenIce]

No, disagree. He lied about a matter not material to the case and was made an example. That was his only credibility lapse. If you have evidence of any investigation that says otherwise please post it.

I don't see how Mark Fuhrman affected the credibilty of any detectives. Care to explain? Lange and Vannatter stood behind Mark Furhrman's work on the investigation and they had every reason to do so.

TV,

MF's credbility was material to the case. It didn't matter what he thought, it didn't matter that he felt by betrayed by MC for making it a material issue in his case. It was and he had more then enough time to deal with this issue honestly.

Instead of coming of clean, he chose to play chicken with the DA's and they blinked. He chose to play a cat and mouse game with FLB and he lost, big time. No one made his lie, no one made him say anything on the stand that he did not want to say.

I read his book and one part I found pretty interesting is that he insisted that he saw a bloody fingerprint on the back gate. Clark tried to get him to veer away from that, that since he wasn't a fingerprint expert, could he really say it was a fingerprint. He wouldn't budge. So no can ever accuse MF of letting anyone force him to say anything he did not want to.

I truly believe that as human beings, we all have skeletons in our closets, both personal and professional. And there does come a time, as much as we like to deny it, we will have to face them. We have two choices, we can deal with honestly and hope we receive understanding and compassion or we can can continue to lie and deny and then deal with the fall out of that.

MF made the choice to lie about this and he let others suffer the fall out of it. No one paid a higher price for his lie than the Browns and the Goldmans. IMO.

[GreenIce]

mf knew how to walk through the rain drops and how not to get cauht doing his thing.

Martin,

I have to disagree with you on this. MF was a bull in a china shop and didn't care who knew he did it. He knew that he would be protected because he isn't the only one.

Some of the stuff he got away with, we would never be able to get away with. The only way he was able to get away with it was from a lot of help from people who were higher on the food chain than he was.

More than one person taught him the ropes, IMO.

[tv]

TV,

MF's credbility was material to the case. It didn't matter what he thought, it didn't matter that he felt by betrayed by MC for making it a material issue in his case. It was and he had more then enough time to deal with this issue honestly.

Instead of coming of clean, he chose to play chicken with the DA's and they blinked. He chose to play a cat and mouse game with FLB and he lost, big time. No one made his lie, no one made him say anything on the stand that he did not want to say.

I read his book and one part I found pretty interesting is that he insisted that he saw a bloody fingerprint on the back gate. Clark tried to get him to veer away from that, that since he wasn't a fingerprint expert, could he really say it was a fingerprint. He wouldn't budge. So no can ever accuse MF of letting anyone force him to say anything he did not want to.

I truly believe that as human beings, we all have skeletons in our closets, both personal and professional. And there does come a time, as much as we like to deny it, we will have to face them. We have two choices, we can deal with honestly and hope we receive understanding and compassion or we can can continue to lie and deny and then deal with the fall out of that.

MF made the choice to lie about this and he let others suffer the fall out of it. No one paid a higher price for his lie than the Browns and the Goldmans. IMO.

Marcia Clark did not make Mark Fuhrman's lie a material issue in the case. It never met that criteria. The defense pushed the issue and Judge Ito allowed them to take the focus off the victims and the defendant and conduct a side show in the middle of the trial. It was wrong and it didn't do anything to deliver justice to Ron and Nicole or their families.

Since the jury claims they didn't consider Mark Fuhrman either way your assertion that the families paid the price for his lie just isn't correct. The defense could not hope to win an acquittal by countering the evidence. Their only chance was to find a scape goat and with this jury in place and Judge Ito playing along Mark Fuhrman was it.

[tv]

Martin,

I have to disagree with you on this. MF was a bull in a china shop and didn't care who knew he did it. He knew that he would be protected because he isn't the only one.

Some of the stuff he got away with, we would never be able to get away with. The only way he was able to get away with it was from a lot of help from people who were higher on the food chain than he was.

More than one person taught him the ropes, IMO.

Good heavens, where do you get this drama?

[GreenIce]

I'm glad this is posted in conspiracy theories.

Once again, where did you get the information that Mark Fuhrman applied for a promotion? Even if he did and was denied, so what? People try for promotions all the time and don't get them. It doesn't mean they do something like set an innocent person up for a murder rap.

What are you basing the diagnosis of 'serious mental issues' on? As far as anyone knows he's led a law abiding, normal existence since being convicted of perjury and did the same before the conviction. Mark Fuhrman is a best selling author and contributor on Fox News.

On the other hand, OJ Simpson has been in several scrapes with the law and several incidences of domestic violence. His latest incident was way more than a scrape and that's why he's not living among the rest of us at this point.

IMO, the kook is OJ Simpson not Mark Fuhrman. I will give OJS this -- he has never expressed even the slightest degree of anger toward Mark Fuhrman because he knows that his work on the investigation was solid and he knows that Mark Fuhrman found the glove where he dropped it when reentering his estate.

TV,

It was in TL's and PV's book about his applying to get into their unit. Do you really think that MF was happy being a junior detective?

You have no idea how many scrapes MF had had with the law. But you do know he was facing a retrial in the case of Joe Britton. I would call that a scrape, wouldn't you?

And you don't know what was in his personal records, yes, he may have had commendations in his record, but he also had, according to Joe Bosco's book, 5 serious citzens complaints against him as well. Apparently 6 is the magic number before any action can be taken.

No one has ever said that they believe that MF did what he did because he knew OJ was innocent. It think there is more than enough evidence to suggest that Simpson was the natural prime suspect just by his status alone regarding Nicole. However, knowing of 3 other prior DV incidents, make it impossible to believe the detectives were telling the truth on why they want to Rockingham. IMO.

[GreenIce]

Good heavens, where do you get this drama?

TV,

If you painted a nazi swatizka on your collegue's locker, would you have a job the next day?

If you told your supervisor that you had no respect for him or her because of their gender, would you have a job the next day?

If you participated in a group that targeted one gender, would you have a job the next day?

And if you did, why? Would it be because you were so good at your job that it didn't matter who you terrorized?

[tv]

TV,

It was in TL's and PV's book about his applying to get into their unit. Do you really think that MF was happy being a junior detective?

You have no idea how many scrapes MF had had with the law. But you do know he was facing a retrial in the case of Joe Britton. I would call that a scrape, wouldn't you?

And you don't know what was in his personal records, yes, he may have had commendations in his record, but he also had, according to Joe Bosco's book, 5 serious citzens complaints against him as well. Apparently 6 is the magic number before any action can be taken.

No one has ever said that they believe that MF did what he did because he knew OJ was innocent. It think there is more than enough evidence to suggest that Simpson was the natural prime suspect just by his status alone regarding Nicole. However, knowing of 3 other prior DV incidents, make it impossible to believe the detectives were telling the truth on why they want to Rockingham. IMO.

GreenIce, every LE officer has complaints against them. It goes with the territory. He actually had less complaints than average.

We do know whether or not Mark Fuhrman had any problems with the law. These things are public record and the media left no stone unturned in digging up information on the trial participants and people associated with the case. That holds true for Fuhrman's record today. Anything he does would come to light.

Why do you make something sinister out of Mark Fuhrman applying to get into another unit? There's nothing unusual about that.

I'm taking a break on the Mark Fuhrman issue.

[tv]

TV,

If you painted a nazi swatizka on your collegue's locker, would you have a job the next day?

If you told your supervisor that you had no respect for him or her because of their gender, would you have a job the next day?

If you participated in a group that targeted one gender, would you have a job the next day?

And if you did, why? Would it be because you were so good at your job that it didn't matter who you terrorized?

The swastika story is untrue.

MAW was a joke not a real organization. Where are the women that were targeted? Why haven't they come forward and nailed Mark Fuhrman to the wall for the way he abused them? Was Fuhrman the only member? Who are the others that were supposedly in this club?

If you believe that Mark Fuhrman told Peggy York he had no respect for her than you believe that Peggy York is a liar and her husband should have removed himself from the case.

[GreenIce]

The swastika story is untrue.

MAW was a joke not a real organization. Where are the women that were targeted? Why haven't they come forward and nailed Mark Fuhrman to the wall for the way he abused them? Was Fuhrman the only member? Who are the others that were supposedly in this club?

If you believe that Mark Fuhrman told Peggy York he had no respect for her than you believe that Peggy York is a liar and her husband should have removed himself from the case.

TV,

What is your proof that the swastika incident did not happen?

MAW was a joke, well how would you like it if you were the target of the "joke"? And IMO, in many professions, "MAW" is alive and well.

I believe Captain York committed perjury, but it was only to protect MF. You have no proof that Judge Ito knew about MF before the trial.

When Judge Ito became aware of the tapes an their coments about his wife, he did offer to recuse himself from the case. In fact the DA's tried to force a mistrial over this, but they changed their minds.

[tv]

TV,

What is your proof that the swastika incident did not happen?

MAW was a joke, well how would you like it if you were the target of the "joke"? And IMO, in many professions, "MAW" is alive and well.

I believe Captain York committed perjury, but it was only to protect MF. You have no proof that Judge Ito knew about MF before the trial.

When Judge Ito became aware of the tapes an their coments about his wife, he did offer to recuse himself from the case. In fact the DA's tried to force a mistrial over this, but they changed their minds.

Don't ask me to prove a negative. The burden is on you to prove it happened.

In what profession is MAW alive and well? Please cite some specifics.

It doesn't matter whether or not Judge Ito knew about Mark Fuhrman before the trial. He found out about the animosity between his wife and Mark Fuhrman at some point. Instead of Peggy York lying about it, Judge Ito should have removed himself or declared a mistrial. Why do you give Judge Ito and his wife a pass for lying?

You're doing your backwards psychology again. York was PROTECTING Mark Fuhrman? Come on, even you can't believe that...any minute I expect the white rabbit to run by checking his pocket watch

[GreenIce]

Don't ask me to prove a negative. The burden is on you to prove it happened.

In what profession is MAW alive and well? Please cite some specifics.

It doesn't matter whether or not Judge Ito knew about Mark Fuhrman before the trial. He found out about the animosity between his wife and Mark Fuhrman at some point. Instead of Peggy York lying about it, Judge Ito should have removed himself or declared a mistrial. Why do you give Judge Ito and his wife a pass for lying?

You're doing your backwards psychology again. York was PROTECTING Mark Fuhrman? Come on, even you can't believe that...any minute I expect the white rabbit to run by checking his pocket watch

TV,

Lucianne Colman did testify, outside the presence of the jury regarding this incident and how she came about this information. She was told by Purdy that he had kept a log of MF's incidents. And if I remember correctly, MF's fingerprints were found on the locker but they couldn't prove when the fingerprints got there. Again, if I remember correctly why there was nothing that could have been done to MF about his.

What is your proof that this did not happen?

How long did it take women to become fire fighters? How long to become cops? How long to become fighter pilots, etc. What were the reasons on why they were denied certain jobs for so, so long?

I am not giving Judge Ito a pass on lying about this because there is no evidence to suggest that he was aware of this before he heard the tapes. From his reaction to learning about the negative comments about his wife and his address in the courtroom, IMO, supports that he did not know.

The city of LA paid a career criminal $100,000.00 to protect MF. Since Captain York was not charged with perjury, we will never know the real reason she did this.

However, didn't the judge who did review these comments say they were not material to the case and that Judge Ito could continue on as the judge?

And the DA's didn't want a mistrial any more than the defense did, IMO.

[tv]

TV,

Lucianne Colman did testify, outside the presence of the jury regarding this incident and how she came about this information. She was told by Purdy that he had kept a log of MF's incidents. And if I remember correctly, MF's fingerprints were found on the locker but they couldn't prove when the fingerprints got there. Again, if I remember correctly why there was nothing that could have been done to MF about his.

What is your proof that this did not happen?

How long did it take women to become fire fighters? How long to become cops? How long to become fighter pilots, etc. What were the reasons on why they were denied certain jobs for so, so long?

I am not giving Judge Ito a pass on lying about this because there is no evidence to suggest that he was aware of this before he heard the tapes. From his reaction to learning about the negative comments about his wife and his address in the courtroom, IMO, supports that he did not know.

The city of LA paid a career criminal $100,000.00 to protect MF. Since Captain York was not charged with perjury, we will never know the real reason she did this.

However, didn't the judge who did review these comments say they were not material to the case and that Judge Ito could continue on as the judge?

And the DA's didn't want a mistrial any more than the defense did, IMO.

GI, I can't believe we're still hashing out Mark Fuhrman. There is no proof he painted the swastika so the burden is on you. Not me.

If you seriously believe that Judge Ito was unaware of the problems between his wife and Fuhrman you'll just have to continue to believe it. It's not realistic but...whatever.

When he was definitely aware of it he should have recused himself. It was common knowledge among both sets of lawyers that he loved the attention and celebrity he gained during the trial. I don't consider Judge Ito a bad judge but those are the facts.

Speaking of women in traditionally male dominated professions...they've been integrated into these jobs for a very long time so your claim that MAW is active doesn't hold up. As long as the world turns there will be gender discrimination to some degree -- it's human nature. The world has evolved regarding gender and race and it will continue to evolve but that doesn't mean that an organization called MAW is active.

I'm done with talking about Detective Fuhrman for tonight.