8-Year-Old Boy Arrested In Double-Homicide - Arizona

[susie31023]

I agree with that. I do on the other hand know that children should always have an adult present when questioned about any crime. Whether they were involved or not. I have a lot of respect for LE. What I don't respect is the decision they made in this case. I do feel this childs attorney will be more than capable of finding out exactly what LE did and didn't do legally. That is my concern here. An 8 year old does not have the ability to fully understand the ramifications of what may be held against him. Therefore we have [ if no family is available] child advocates who can be called in to monitor any questioning of the child. As I have said IF he is guilty then he should have punishment but to allow the confession in would be grounds for an appeal in my opinion...

[William Anthony]

http://criminal-law.lawyers.com/ask-...entU-7445.html

“Laws concerning police questioning of juveniles vary from state to state. The Supreme Court has held that juveniles who are arrested, like adults, must be given their Miranda rights. It has not held that juveniles can only be questioned in the presence of their parent or guardian.”

[susie31023]

While it is true that there are miranda laws there are also laws that require an adult to be present to ensure that 1. The child is ok physically, 2. That the child understands what is being asked of them. and 3. Anything they learn can be admitted into evidence. Many states do have different laws on the books that vary with each state.

If you don't my asking a question, and please just ignore the question if you would rather not answer. Everything I have read by you leads one to believe that you would be very much against this conduct of LE, so why do you feel in this case as in no others that I've seen do you play the devils advocate? I would think being interested in Law and with your knowledge that it would be a case you would find difficult to agree with LE on..Again I'm not saying whether he is guilty or innocent, I am saying that LE behaved irresponsible in this case. I'm not trying to argue so please don't take it as such..I just have some knowledge of kids and feel in this case there is much more to be learned concerning what happened and the conduct of LE...

It all may be a moot point since one psychiatrist has said he is not competent to stand trial. I'm still waiting on the other one to announce his findings.

[William Anthony]

I simply posted a link that allows for the boy to be questioned without an adult around. It is my respect for the law that allows me to question LE's conduct and find anything that supports or goes against their conduct.

I agree that there is much to learn about LE's conduct in this case. I truly believe that, if a child is arrested that he has a right to have someone present during the questioning, but this child was not at the time he was questioned, according to LE and was not a suspect. I am simply stating the hurdle that the defense must overcome on appeal, imho. We all sometimes view LE's conduct differently based on our personal feelings-to that I will agree.

[susie31023]

I agree. Our perspective comes from our own personal feelings. I have the utmost respect for the laws of our nation and for the ones who uphold it. Yet something about this case just doesn't come across as being handled correctly. I think perhaps if this child were older it wouldn't bother me as much. But an 8 year old in anyones eyes is still a child and should have been treated differently than he was.

One thing that really bothers me is IF they didn't suspect him and were only trying to find out what he knew then why wasn't there a child psychologist brought in to help him deal with the murder of his father? After all a death is tragic but for him to have possibly witnessed his own fathers murder seems to scream that they would have needed to calm him down and thereby be assured that he was ok physically as well as mentally. You wouldn't ordinarily just start asking questions because of the trauma he had just been through. after all even when an officer shoots someone a psychologist is brought in to help them cope with the stress and trauma. So why act differently in this case? Just makes me wonder what their real intentions were.

[sharlock]

Brewer is doing a very good job defending his client. I wonder what the relationship between Romero, the child and the magistrate who signed the search warrant is? I'm assuming this must have something to do with why Brewer wants the evidence obtained by that search warrant disallowed.
Anyway, in a few days the next hearing will hopefully shed a little more light.

They were probably hunting buddies.

[sharlock]

According to the link I posted, the child was not a suspect and was just being questioned as to what he saw, when allegedly he confessed. I think under those circumstances that statement may be allowed in but it is hard to say definitively without hearing the tapes and a determination as to the child's ability to know that he was not being detained by LE at the time.

If you look back on the thread you will be aqble to view those very tapes. For this interrogation to be legal they NEEDED the child to be represented because they did most definitely treat him like a suspect for a large portion of the tape and he also must have felt like he could leave the interogation at anytime which he could not possibly have felt; he was sitting there with 2 cops wearing guns and he had absolutley nowhere he could goat the time, even his Mum wasn't in town at that point and interestingly his stepmum had not gone to him even though initially they did not suspect the child supposedly.

[William Anthony]

I agree. Our perspective comes from our own personal feelings. I have the utmost respect for the laws of our nation and for the ones who uphold it. Yet something about this case just doesn't come across as being handled correctly. I think perhaps if this child were older it wouldn't bother me as much. But an 8 year old in anyones eyes is still a child and should have been treated differently than he was.

One thing that really bothers me is IF they didn't suspect him and were only trying to find out what he knew then why wasn't there a child psychologist brought in to help him deal with the murder of his father? After all a death is tragic but for him to have possibly witnessed his own fathers murder seems to scream that they would have needed to calm him down and thereby be assured that he was ok physically as well as mentally. You wouldn't ordinarily just start asking questions because of the trauma he had just been through. after all even when an officer shoots someone a psychologist is brought in to help them cope with the stress and trauma. So why act differently in this case? Just makes me wonder what their real intentions were.

I don't think that we can automatically assume that he was a suspect as they were told and could have possibly believed he was at school at the time of the murders. I agree that LE may not have handled the case correctly and your post seems to indicate you believe that they were acting in a manner above being untoward, meaning they did something illegal. I think that is the question. Although LE may act in a manner untoward, the questions the court will be called upon to answer is whether their conduct was illegal and the jury, if there is a trial, will undoubtedly address the issue of who is to be believed.

There is no doubt that an officer may seek psychological help when he has killed someone and I agree that this child will need some, if he did the murders and simply because of what he saw, if he did not do the murders. As I have said, the court is in the unenviable position of balancing the rights of society against this child's rights if he did the murders or in other words, given the circumstances which weighs heaviest, the protection of society or the protection of the individual, albeit a child.

[William Anthony]

If you look back on the thread you will be aqble to view those very tapes. For this interrogation to be legal they NEEDED the child to be represented because they did most definitely treat him like a suspect for a large portion of the tape and he also must have felt like he could leave the interogation at anytime which he could not possibly have felt; he was sitting there with 2 cops wearing guns and he had absolutley nowhere he could goat the time, even his Mum wasn't in town at that point and interestingly his stepmum had not gone to him even though initially they did not suspect the child supposedly.

Thanks, and I will look back.

[William Anthony]

Herein lies that crux of the problem.

http://www.lotsofessays.com/viewpaper/1687615.html

“They want juvenile crime and violence deterred by any means necessary, including adult treatment for the juvenile who commits an adult crime. A growing number of people are dissatisfied with a juvenile justice system that treats the violent crimes, including murder, by juveniles so lightly.”

[Its just me]

[SIZE=3]If the decision of this case would mean that society would have only “one” murderer (if the child is guilty) walking among us I would be more concerned about society but we all live among murderers, sex offenders, and all kind of thugs. Some are set free by a jury. At this point it’s not known if the child is guilty much less if he will be harm to the society or not…. nor is it known if he can be rehabilitated if he is guilty. The child should be handled as a child and I expect the case to be decided by a judge and we will never know much of the details…or I hope that is the case. fep[/SIZE]

[William Anthony]

Because society is already in danger does not mean we need to add to that danger, if the child is guilty, imho. This child may be set free by a jury, if there is a trial and if he did or did not do it. An informed society is an educated one, imho. I would ask for a national registry of those convicted of murders as there is with those convicted of sex crimes. The entire rationalization of crimes is to protect society from conduct that is unacceptable.

[Its just me]

Because society is already in danger does not mean we need to add to that danger, if the child is guilty, imho. This child may be set free by a jury, if there is a trial and if he did or did not do it. An informed society is an educated one, imho. I would ask for a national registry of those convicted of murders as there is with those convicted of sex crimes. The entire rationalization of crimes is to protect society from conduct that is unacceptable.

I don't feel the child poses any danger to society at this time. I sure would not mind being the one provide the love he needs. Society has about as many opinions as it does people but I believe in and try to serve a God that is all knowing and His Book (the bible) is full of His compassion for little children....and this boy is a little child….not an adult nor a juvenile with in the age most statistics are taken. Because it is such an unordinary case I have to trust and ask God to guide those in charge to do what is best. I don't know but I doubt anyone here does either. fep

[William Anthony]

The Bible is a story of the greatest love the world has known. It teaches us to love thy neighbor as thy love thy self and to forgive those that have trespassed against you. However, mankind has sought to impose it owns rules of conduct and the Bible says, give unto Cesar what it Cesar's and give unto God what is God's. While we may shower the child with the love of God it is not against His will for the child to pay his dues to Cesar. The Bible also teaches us to watch as well as pray for there are those not inclined to follow God's or man's law. I think this case calls for the wisdom of Solomon.

[Its just me]

The Bible is a story of the greatest love the world has known. It teaches us to love thy neighbor as thy love thy self and to forgive those that have trespassed against you. However, mankind has sought to impose it owns rules of conduct and the Bible says, give unto Cesar what it Cesar's and give unto God what is God's. While we may shower the child with the love of God it is not against His will for the child to pay his dues to Cesar. The Bible also teaches us to watch as well as pray for there are those not inclined to follow God's or man's law. I think this case calls for the wisdom of Solomon.

I think that is where most of us err....we think we have the wisdom of Solomon is some instances. William the child is a child and does not come close to the catagory you try to put him in...but that is my opinion and may be far from what Solomon would have said. That is why I trust God.

When Jesus made the statement to the Pharisees to render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's...he saw their wickedness and called them hypocrites for trying to tempt him. The same day along came the Sadducees with stupid questions conerning the resurrection and Jesus told them they err because of not knowing the scriptures or the power of God. When the Pharisees heard that Jesus had put the Sadducees to silence a lawyer among them asked him the tempting question "Which is the greatest commandment in the law?". Jesus said (Matthew 22) Thou shalt love the Lord they God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. The second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


I love this little boy as my self and I'm not about to throw him under the bus and I know the power of God. fep

[William Anthony]

I think that is where most of us err....we think we have the wisdom of Solomon is some instances. William the child is a child and does not come close to the catagory you try to put him in...but that is my opinion and may be far from what Solomon would have said. That is why I trust God.

When Jesus made the statement to the Pharisees to render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's...he saw their wickedness and called them hypocrites for trying to tempt him. The same day along came the Sadducees with stupid questions conerning the resurrection and Jesus told them they err because of not knowing the scriptures or the power of God. When the Pharisees heard that Jesus had put the Sadducees to silence a lawyer among them asked him the tempting question "Which is the greatest commandment in the law?". Jesus said (Matthew 22) Thou shalt love the Lord they God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. The second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


I love this little boy as my self and I'm not about to throw him under the bus and I know the power of God. fep

I have not said that anyone among us is endowed with the wisdom of Solomon. I meant that it would take someone of that caliber to decide this case properly. I do not know of which law you speak. Perhaps, you speak of God's law. Man made law is of a different caliber and of different sources, although they may include religious or cannon law. The problem here is related to another scripture where it is said that the spirit is strong but the flesh is weak. We of the flesh need to feel that we are protected from acts of brutal violence or that there will be a deterrent for those so weak in spirit that they succumb to acts of brutal violence. We may simultaneously cherish and after life with God and a life here on earth surrounded with the companionship of those we love and feel that no one has the right to unlawfully take them away from us without suffering some form of punishment. This is why I said it would take the wisdom of Solomon in this case. A human will be called upon to determine the child's fate on this earth, while balancing the desires of society.

[susie31023]

While a human may decide the fate of this child may be true, it is beyond comprehension that this child should have been treated in the way that he was. IF he were an adult you would have lawyers/reporters the ACLU and any number of others calling his"confession" coerced/ nonadmissable/that his rights were violated/he wasn't read his "rights" etc. I will say again, I don't know IF he is guilty or not but I do know that many murderers are allowed to go free on far more evidence than what has been so far stated. I would be more afraid for Society in the hands of those than at the hands of an 8 or 9 year old child..

[Its just me]

I have not said that anyone among us is endowed with the wisdom of Solomon. I meant that it would take someone of that caliber to decide this case properly. I do not know of which law you speak. Perhaps, you speak of God's law. Man made law is of a different caliber and of different sources, although they may include religious or cannon law. The problem here is related to another scripture where it is said that the spirit is strong but the flesh is weak. We of the flesh need to feel that we are protected from acts of brutal violence or that there will be a deterrent for those so weak in spirit that they succumb to acts of brutal violence. We may simultaneously cherish and after life with God and a life here on earth surrounded with the companionship of those we love and feel that no one has the right to unlawfully take them away from us without suffering some form of punishment. This is why I said it would take the wisdom of Solomon in this case. A human will be called upon to determine the child's fate on this earth, while balancing the desires of society.

LOL...I didn't know I spoke of a law... only my opinion. Jesus is the one that said "On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets"...Not I. My flesh is indeed weak but far from being so weak I'm afraid of what a child may do to me or an adult for that matter.... on the flip side my flesh is strong enough to see this case for what it is. Something you and I know little about except 2 people are dead, a "child" has been arrested, and it's in the hands of the courts. It would be nice for a court to consider my desire to handle the "child as a child" but that would create a mess because like I said before...there are about as many opinions in society as there are people so I'm hoping (praying) what decisions made will be by someone with common sense..... I seriously doubt there is anyone close to a Soloman around.

ETA: William you claim the child is innocent until proven guilty but it's pretty clear what you think should be done to the child. That's your right...I just disagree at this point in the case. fep

[SaraSidle]

LOL...I didn't know I spoke of a law... only my opinion. Jesus is the one that said "On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets"...Not I. My flesh is indeed weak but far from being so weak I'm afraid of what a child may do to me or an adult for that matter.... on the flip side my flesh is strong enough to see this case for what it is. Something you and I know little about except 2 people are dead, a "child" has been arrested, and it's in the hands of the courts. It would be nice for a court to consider my desire to handle the "child as a child" but that would create a mess because like I said before...there are about as many opinions in society as there are people so I'm hoping (praying) what decisions made will be by someone with common sense..... I seriously doubt there is anyone close to a Soloman around.

ETA: William you claim the child is innocent until proven guilty but it's pretty clear what you think should be done to the child. That's your right...I just disagree at this point in the case. fep

LOL You will always be a Solomon to me fep.

[SaraSidle]

Seriously I agree with Suzie as usual and I am not so sure the boy did it. I mean shots to the front and back? sounds hinky to me. IMO

[William Anthony]

LOL...I didn't know I spoke of a law... only my opinion. Jesus is the one that said "On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets"...Not I. My flesh is indeed weak but far from being so weak I'm afraid of what a child may do to me or an adult for that matter.... on the flip side my flesh is strong enough to see this case for what it is. Something you and I know little about except 2 people are dead, a "child" has been arrested, and it's in the hands of the courts. It would be nice for a court to consider my desire to handle the "child as a child" but that would create a mess because like I said before...there are about as many opinions in society as there are people so I'm hoping (praying) what decisions made will be by someone with common sense..... I seriously doubt there is anyone close to a Soloman around.

ETA: William you claim the child is innocent until proven guilty but it's pretty clear what you think should be done to the child. That's your right...I just disagree at this point in the case. fep

Perhaps, I should have said the law of which your post speaks. I doubt that the two victims thought they had anything to fear from a child, if he did the murders. You may be right that there is no one close to having the wisdom of Solomon. I guess we will have to rely on the wisdom of the court and precedent.

I don't know what should be done to the child and firmly believe that he is innocent until proven guilty and have serious questions about the incident that I would like to have answered. However, the discussion seems to be what should happen to the child in the event that he is brought to trial and, also, if he is found guilty or accepts a plea. There have been some posts about the Constitutionality of the alleged confession and I have answered my views as to what LE alleges, what the judge has thus far said, and what could be the possible ramifications. I think Jesus talked in parables, because he knew that incidents could be viewed in more than one way.

[William Anthony]

Seriously I agree with Suzie as usual and I am not so sure the boy did it. I mean shots to the front and back? sounds hinky to me. IMO

At this stage no one should be sure the boy did it.

[William Anthony]

Seriously I agree with Suzie as usual and I am not so sure the boy did it. I mean shots to the front and back? sounds hinky to me. IMO

Is it being said that there was more than one murder weapon used?

[SaraSidle]

Is it being said that there was more than one murder weapon used?

Makes me even more suspicious. Just a gut feeling but I have been doubtful since I have heard the case. I think other adults are involved. IMO

[William Anthony]

Makes me even more suspicious. Just a gut feeling but I have been doubtful since I have heard the case. I think other adults are involved. IMO

I also have some serious questions about this case and think that there is more to it than has been reported.

[SaraSidle]

I also have some serious questions about this case and think that there is more to it than has been reported.

definitely want to hear more info and evidence.......especially on mom IMO

[William Anthony]

definitely want to hear more info and evidence.......especially on mom IMO

I agree on wanting to hear more information and evidence. However, this is were the child's status as a juvenile may preclude us from filling our desires, depending on the court. Trutv is/was showing a murder case in which the defendant is a juvenile. I haven't been able to follow it but he is accused of murdering his brother in law. His sister was also in an orange jump suit and from the little I did hear she allegedly had some type of influence over her brother. I have heard of cases where adults get juveniles to commit crimes, because the court is normally more lenient, with juvenile offenders.

[William Anthony]

http://www.wtopnews.com/index.php?nid=104&sid=1513427

[Its just me]

http://www.news24.com/News24/World/N...423290,00.html

'Something led up to this'
09/11/2008 09:40 - (SA)



St Johns, Arizona - A man who police believe was shot and killed by his eight-year-old son had consulted a Roman Catholic priest about whether the boy should handle guns and had taught him how to use a rifle, the clergyman said on Saturday.
The father, Vincent Romero, 29, was from a family of avid hunters and wanted to make sure the boy wasn't afraid of guns, said the Very Reverend John Paul Sauter of St Johns Catholic Church. The boy's stepmother had suggested he have a BB gun, the priest said.
Romero taught his son how to use a rifle to kill prairie dogs, Sauter said. Police say the boy used a .22-calibre rifle Wednesday to kill his father and another man, Timothy Romans, 39.
The priest did not say how he advised the couple but said on Saturday that the boy "was just too young."
'Not spur of the moment'
"That child, I don't think he knows what he did, and it was brutal," Sauter said.
The boy, who faces two counts of premeditated murder, did not act on the spur of the moment, St Johns Police Chief Roy Melnick said. Police are looking into whether he might have been abused.
"I'm not accusing anybody of anything at this point," he said Saturday. "But we're certainly going to look at the abuse part of this. He's eight years old. He just doesn't decide one day that he's going to shoot his father and shoot his father's friend for no reason. Something led up to this."
The boy's father and stepmother had gotten married in September, said Sauter, who presided over the wedding.
Romero had full custody of the child. The boy's mother had visited St Johns from Mississippi the previous weekend and returned to Arizona after the shootings, said Apache County Attorney Brad Carlyon.
On Friday, a judge ordered a psychological evaluation of the boy. Under Arizona law, charges can be filed against anyone eight or older.
The boy had no record of complaints with Arizona Child Protective Services, Carlyon said.
"He had no record of any kind, not even a disciplinary record at school," he said. "He has never been in trouble before."
In a sign of the emotional and legal complexities of the case, police are pushing to have the boy tried as an adult even as they investigate possible abuse, Melnick said. If convicted as a minor, the boy could be sent to juvenile detention until he turns 18.
"We're going to use every avenue of the law that's available to us, but we're also looking at the human side," he said.
The boy's lawyer, Benjamin Brewer, said his client is generally in good spirits.
"He's scared," he said. "He's trying to be tough, but he's scared."
Police are also investigating whether there were any domestic violence calls to the Romero home in the past, Melnick said.
Officers arrived at Romero's home within minutes of the shooting Wednesday in St Johns, which has a population of about 4 000 northeast of Phoenix. They found one victim just outside the front door and the other dead in an upstairs room.
Romans had been renting a room at the Romero house, prosecutors said. Both men were employees of a construction company working at a power plant near St Johns.
The boy went to a neighbour's house and said he "believed that his father was dead," Carlyon said. Melnick said police got a confession, but Brewer said police overreached in questioning the boy without representation from a parent or attorney and did not advise him of his rights. FBI statistics show instances of children younger than 11 committing homicides are very rare.

[Its just me]

http://www.news24.com/News24/World/N...423199,00.html


'It tugs at the heart strings'
08/11/2008 22:40 - (SA)


Flagstaff, Arizona - It's a crime that police officers in a small eastern Arizona community can hardly fathom yet have to deal with: an eight-year-old charged in the fatal shootings of his father and another man.
"Who would think an eight-year-old kid could kill two adults?" St. Johns Police Chief Roy Melnick said on Friday.
The killings on Wednesday sent shock waves through St Johns, a community of about 4 000 people. The boy had no disciplinary record at school, and there was no indication he had any problems at home, prosecutors said.
"It was such a tragedy," said the boy's defence attorney, Benjamin Brewer. "You have two people dead; you have an eight-year-old in jail. It tugs at the heart strings. It's a shocker, no doubt about it."
On Friday, a judge determined there was probable cause to show that the boy fatally shot his father, Vincent Romero, 29, and Timothy Romans, 39, with a .22-caliber rifle. The boy faces two counts of premeditated murder. Under Arizona law, charges can be filed against anyone eight or older.
Melnick said the boy didn't act on the "spur of the moment", though he didn't elaborate on what the motive might have been.
Melnick said officers arrived at Romero's home within minutes of the shooting on Wednesday. They found one victim just outside the front door and the other dead in an upstairs room.
Romans had been renting a room at the Romero house, prosecutors said. Both men were employees of a construction company working at a Salt River Project power plant near St. Johns, which is about 275km northeast of Phoenix.
The boy went to a neighbour's house and said he "believed that his father was dead", said Apache County attorney Brad Carlyon.
Melnick said police obtained a confession from the boy, but Brewer said police overreached in questioning the boy without representation from a parent or attorney and did not advise him of his rights.
"They became very accusing early on in the interview," Brewer said. "Two officers with guns at their side, it's very scary for anybody, for sure an eight-year-old kid."
A judge ordered a psychological evaluation of the boy, who was being held at the Apache County juvenile detention centre.
Prosecutors aren't sure where the case is headed, Carlyon said.
"There's a ton of factors to be considered and weighed, including the juvenile's age," he said. "The counter balance against that, the acts that he apparently committed." Carlyon said the boy had no record of complaints with Arizona Child Protective Services. "He had no record of any kind, not even a disciplinary record at school," he said. "He has never been in trouble before."

[SaraSidle]

I agree on wanting to hear more information and evidence. However, this is were the child's status as a juvenile may preclude us from filling our desires, depending on the court. Trutv is/was showing a murder case in which the defendant is a juvenile. I haven't been able to follow it but he is accused of murdering his brother in law. His sister was also in an orange jump suit and from the little I did hear she allegedly had some type of influence over her brother. I have heard of cases where adults get juveniles to commit crimes, because the court is normally more lenient, with juvenile offenders.

ITA and I know what you are talking about. IMO

[William Anthony]

ITA and I know what you are talking about. IMO

I can not buy into the 1,000 spanking thing. I go back to visit the small town I was born in and have found that, although everyone knows everyone else's business it is not spoken about publicly but talked about behind closed doors. I think teachers, doctors or other children would have seen some signs of the abuse. I do believe that something was going on that caused the child to do this, if he did it.

[SaraSidle]

I can not buy into the 1,000 spanking thing. I go back to visit the small town I was born in and have found that, although everyone knows everyone else's business it is not spoken about publicly but talked about behind closed doors. I think teachers, doctors or other children would have seen some signs of the abuse. I do believe that something was going on that caused the child to do this, if he did it.

I have a friend who was brought up in a house of abuse by his father and he owned the same type of weapon for hunting. I asked him if this was something he could possible even entertain in his mind at that age and he said absolutely not. I realize that everyone is different and it is still possible that the 8 yr old did it but still would like to know more and as you posted earlier that may never happen. I just hope he is getting help of some kind guilty or not. IMO

[William Anthony]

I have a friend who was brought up in a house of abuse by his father and he owned the same type of weapon for hunting. I asked him if this was something he could possible even entertain in his mind at that age and he said absolutely not. I realize that everyone is different and it is still possible that the 8 yr old did it but still would like to know more and as you posted earlier that may never happen. I just hope he is getting help of some kind guilty or not. IMO

I totally agree.

[SaraSidle]

For anyone who wants to discuss the facts in this case.

The videotaped 'confession' has been thrown out by Judge Roca as inadmissible. It should never have been done. Totally inexcusable.

There's a fairly large drug connection to this case that needs to be discussed. Tim Romans, the child's father, had a bullet hole in his truck and a concealed weapon in his glove box. Concealed weapons are illegal in Az.
He had a previous drug conviction. His sister pled guilty to a drugs charge in Flagstaff in '04. Both of them, from what I can gather, had dealings in 'meth'. Romans, apparently, came to St John's with a rep as being involved in meth. Apache County is, apparently, the 2nd largest meth area in Az.

So, let's go to the shootings. Romero was shot in the back going up the stairs. His killer went over his body, upstairs searching for whatever, then comes back down the stairs and shoots him another 2 times in the head.
Does anyone get the idea of execution style?

And what of the 8 year old? The cops started 'real' investigating 18 hours after the crime. 19 hours after the crime they were 'interviewing' the child.

Well, sure, there are 2 dead men in the house. Shot a total of 9 times. There's an 8 year old. He must have done it. One of the cops who 'interviewed' the child has been promoted. Put in for the promotion before all of this happened. I reckon she'll need to do a better job than this.

Nice job Mr Bell

[sharlock]

For anyone who wants to discuss the facts in this case.

The videotaped 'confession' has been thrown out by Judge Roca as inadmissible. It should never have been done. Totally inexcusable.

There's a fairly large drug connection to this case that needs to be discussed. Tim Romans, the child's father, had a bullet hole in his truck and a concealed weapon in his glove box. Concealed weapons are illegal in Az.
He had a previous drug conviction. His sister pled guilty to a drugs charge in Flagstaff in '04. Both of them, from what I can gather, had dealings in 'meth'. Romans, apparently, came to St John's with a rep as being involved in meth. Apache County is, apparently, the 2nd largest meth area in Az.

So, let's go to the shootings. Romero was shot in the back going up the stairs. His killer went over his body, upstairs searching for whatever, then comes back down the stairs and shoots him another 2 times in the head.
Does anyone get the idea of execution style?

And what of the 8 year old? The cops started 'real' investigating 18 hours after the crime. 19 hours after the crime they were 'interviewing' the child.

Well, sure, there are 2 dead men in the house. Shot a total of 9 times. There's an 8 year old. He must have done it. One of the cops who 'interviewed' the child has been promoted. Put in for the promotion before all of this happened. I reckon she'll need to do a better job than this.

Wow thankyou JB, where did this come from? Very interesting indeed.

[sharlock]

Hey Sara. Lots of people are standing up for the child. About time. There's a load more c*** about the murder weapon. It sure wasn't the Chipmunk gun LE first touted. There has to be drugs involved. Romero was paying $50 a week for his room. Wow, how cheap is that? He had $500 in his wallet when he died. 5 $100 bills. Doesn't add up (excuse the pun).

Hmmm.. I wonder if Romero was a cook? I kind of remember somewhere it being mentioned that there was more than one type of gun used. My god, if they have put that child into custody after he has been exposed to the worst shock in his life if he is totally innocent of any wrongdoing I will be ropeable. They may have very well scarred this child for life (as if he didn't already have enough to deal with.

[William Anthony]

Since none of us know the facts of this case, let's discuss the information that has been leaked. There seems to be some contradictory information from the leaks. It is my understanding that the boy claimed both victims were dead when he arrived home from school. However, according to Ms. Romans she was talking to her husband on the phone when the boy called him into the house. I think it is far too early to blame the victims in this case as there has been no report that drugs were found in their possession, on the premises or in their system. I think we can appreciate the effect that blaming the victims may have without evidence or information. I have not heard that there were two guns used and, if anyone can supply that information, it would be greatly appreciated.

[William Anthony]

The child's father was Romero not Romans, according to my understanding.

[sharlock]

Since none of us know the facts of this case, let's discuss the information that has been leaked. There seems to be some contradictory information from the leaks. It is my understanding that the boy claimed both victims were dead when he arrived home from school. However, according to Ms. Romans she was talking to her husband on the phone when the boy called him into the house. I think it is far too early to blame the victims in this case as there has been no report that drugs were found in their possession, on the premises or in their system. I think we can appreciate the effect that blaming the victims may have without evidence or information. I have not heard that there were two guns used and, if anyone can supply that information, it would be greatly appreciated.

As you can appreciate William we have been speculating pretty much this whole thread because the only real detailed info we had was from an interogation that should be thrown out by the courts. All other info was scant and then a lid was put on the case to keep more info from being released.
I would have to say that in my mind the child too could very well be a victim and yet he has been compared to some very unsavoury types of crims in this thread. Even if the men who were shot were involved in drugs it would not mean that they were to blame for their deaths. Noone deserves to be gunned down the way they were. I believe that it would mean that the police should have done a better job of investigating the circumstances however. It could also mean that if the boy was responsible there were mitigating factors so I see no harm in discuussing the possibility. Not only has there been no mention of anything being found on them or not on them for that matter as far as I am aware there is no mention of anything to do with this case officially much at all. None the less I am curious. I know I mentioned that I was unsure about the 2 guns and was hoping someone might remember if this was the case.
Have a nice day