Murder in Italy ~ Case Discussion

[Robyn]

A murder had occurred in Italy. The person that was murdered was a British student named Meredith Kercher. The story is still a new so all details are not being released. Meredith Kercher was basically raped and was killed with a possible pen knife to the throat. What is interesting about this case is that it may involve 3 other people, one being her roommate, an American student named Amanda Knox, her Italian boyfriend, Raffaele Sollecito and some guy named Patrick Lumumba who is a Congolese National and that owns a bar where Amanda Knox works.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,309205,00.html

[InsultComicDog]

This is about to come to trial on January 16.

Background:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Meredith_Kercher

Amanda Knox voted Italian 'woman of the year'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-the-year.html

[FDInLaw]

Amanda Knox spending 2nd Xmas in Italian jail

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...S2fzQD958HJJ00

[FDInLaw]

Judge Giancarlo Massei will begin to hear evidence on Jan. 16, when Knox and 24-year-old Italian Rafaelle Sollecito go on trial. Another suspect, 21-year-old Rudy Guede, has already been convicted and sentenced to 30 years in prison at a fast-track nonjury trial in October for his part in Kercher's murder. Chief prosecutor Giuliano Mignini believes Knox and Sollecito are just as guilty. Both maintain their innocence.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/177300





THIS NEEDS IT'S OWN FORUM!!! Gonna ask!

[FDInLaw]

WOO HOO!

Thanks for the forum Deepwater!

[FDInLaw]

'Fast track non-jury trial' means he must have pleaded guilty. The other two I take it haven't come up for trial yet? Meredith Kercher was murdered 2 or 3 years ago? Seems a bit strange you then suddenly have one defendant plead guilty after all this time. I thought he may have been offered a deal but 30 years doesn't seem like much of a deal to me. Do the Italians have the death penalty? I'm going to think no. Anyway, good to see some justice happening.

I find the whole "fast-track" option interesting. It states in this video that it involves a judge and a few witnesses and that the defendant, if found guilty, faces a lesser charge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4rFqfB786E&NR=1

[One2Snoop]

I'm reading! So how exactly was Amanda Knox tied to the murder other than discovering the body? Did I read they found DNA on the victim belonging to Amanda?

[FDInLaw]

I'm reading! So how exactly was Amanda Knox tied to the murder other than discovering the body? Did I read they found DNA on the victim belonging to Amanda?

Still in study mode myself. . . I believe her dna was found on the knife believed to be the murder weapon (mind you, she lived there). Also, at one point IIRC she made a statement that she was there when the murder happened (in the other room plugging her ears).

[FDInLaw]

A blog that is devoted to this case. . . might make a good read.

http://perugia-shock.blogspot.com/20...1_archive.html

[SaraSidle]

okay so does anyone think she is guilty?

[SaraSidle]

This is about to come to trial on January 16.

Background:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Meredith_Kercher

Amanda Knox voted Italian 'woman of the year'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-the-year.html

interesting nic Dog. Welcome to Crime Library!!!!!!!!!! All opinions are welcome!!!!!!!!!

[FDInLaw]

This site looks like it might be another good resource:

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php

[FDInLaw]

okay so does anyone think she is guilty?

Not sure. . . yet.

[SaraSidle]

Not sure. . . yet.

you are so cute with your new avatar I just want to hug you. IMO

[FDInLaw]

The Many Faces of Amanda

As the defense lawyers prepare to make their clients' cases, Knox remains a contradictory and enigmatic figure. Mignini's dossier presents her as a cold-blooded killer. Her lawyers have leaked prison diaries that portray her as a romantic who writes poetry and love stories and who learned to play guitar ballads during her incarceration. Many who know Knox believe she's incapable of committing such a crime. Her parents have lately said that her much-publicized nickname of Foxy Knoxy was given to her for her soccer moves in high school, not her sexual prowess. Her sister Deanna recently said that Amanda only lost her virginity at the age of 19 and Knox's mother says she had no boyfriend in Italy before Sollecito. But her family may not have known the real Amanda. Investigators say that at least two men they interviewed testified to having had sex with Knox the month she arrived in Italy. And by her own account in a prison diary leaked to the media, she details her sexual escapades with at least seven men she'd been with in her three months in Italy before her arrest. She even wrote that she might have HIV and then she uses a process of elimination to narrow down who might have given it to her. The diary is part of the collection of evidence and could be damaging to Knox in a court trial. Recently leaked segments of her continuing tome paint a disturbing picture of her state of mind. In one entry, she writes: "I think it's possible that Raffaelle went to Meredith's house, raped her, then killed her and then when he got home, while I was sleeping, he pressed my fingerprints n the knife." In another entry, she wonders if she would be getting so many letters from men if she weren't so pretty. "If I were ugly, would they be writing me wishing me encouragement? I don't think so," Knox writes. "Jeez, I'm not even that good looking. People are acting like I'm the prettiest thing since Helen of Troy."

Shortly after her arrest, Knox admitted to being at the Perugian villa when Kercher was murdered. The confession was later thrown out of the body of evidence because of allegations of police brutality and coercion, but much of what she said in that original statement coincides with known elements of the case, including evidence gathered by CCTV footage from a nearby parking garage. Since recanting that statement, though, she has testified only that she was "very confused" about what happened. And in the days after the murder, numerous press accounts portrayed her as detached and uninterested in her roommate's brutal death, telling one reporter that she had been the one who found the body. Francesco Bruno, a criminologist who is studying this case and acts as an unpaid consultant for the Sollecito defense team, believes that the perception of Knox's role is complicated by her behavior both before and after the crime. On her Facebook and MySpace pages she wrote about rape and fantasy and posted pictures of herself in compromising positions, including one video where she appears drunk. "This is a murder committed out of fear," Bruno says. "Amanda is depicted as a black widow, she is seen as a dangerous and murderous woman who has caught all the members of the crime scene in her erotic coil."

What's likely to happen next? Guede's attorney Walter Biscotti has indicated that his client will seek to separate himself from his co-defendants. Guede is the only suspect who has admitted to being in Kercher's bedroom the night she died. He also admits having consensual sex with her, but denies murdering her. His DNA is in her room, but not on the alleged murder weapon. Knox's DNA is on the weapon, but her attorneys will argue that other DNA on the blade is less than a 100 percent match to Kercher's—which Knox's attorney says it is not enough to convict his client. Because Knox lived in the house, her DNA in the dwelling will not prove guilt and because Sollecito was her boyfriend and spent time there, his DNA in the house proves nothing, says her lawyer. But Sollecito owns the knife in question and, in fact, it was confiscated from his apartment nearby. His DNA has also been found—on the back of the bloodied bra that was cut off Kercher's body. Sollecito's father offered the defense that perhaps the girls had traded bras, but investigators believe that it proves Sollecito's involvement. His defense team has asked for CCTV camera footage of the morning of November 2, presumably to prove their client's whereabouts.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/146214

See link for complete article.

[FDInLaw]

you are so cute with your new avatar I just want to hug you. IMO

The mole's name is Krtek. . . a popular Czech cartoon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPNVW...eature=related


I think he is a cutie too.

[FDInLaw]

OK I've been reading about this. I'd say Knox and Sollecito have big probs to overcome. No wonder Knox's family are asking for donations for her defence fund. And my question answered about the 30 year term. What a dummy. Thought he'd weasel his way out but Guede just dropped himself right in it.

I don't think I'd be far wrong saying that Knox and Sollecito are in this murder up to their eyeballs.

I agree. The question remains, was it all of their own doing? Did Amanda really give such mixed up accounts or was there a some possible misunderstandings do to the translation process??? Maybe intentional misunderstandings??? This has got to be one of the most truly international crimes to ever be prosecuted. Tremendous attention and difficulties as such. Amanda's lawyers have got a real job before them.

[SaraSidle]

I agree. The question remains, was it all of their own doing? Did Amanda really give such mixed up accounts or was there a some possible misunderstandings do to the translation process??? Maybe intentional misunderstandings??? This has got to be one of the most truly international crimes to ever be prosecuted. Tremendous attention and difficulties as such. Amanda's lawyers have got a real job before them.

ITA everytime I read anything on it FDInLaw................IMO sara

[SaraSidle]

Lost in translation? I don't know about that one. I would expect the Italian
authorities would be pretty sure that they were doing things by the book because it's taken them so long to bring the case to trial. Knox has thrown lots of differing stories out there. She accused Patrick Lumumba, the owner of the bar where she worked, of being the killer. That was thrown out by a judge. She says she was in her boyfriend's flat in Perugia but this new witness is going to cause a few problems. Supposedly, she and Sollecito didn't know Guede yet the new witness says he saw the 3 of them together a few days before the murder. H'm.

Kissing Sollecito passionately (caught on tape) while the cops were investigating the crime scene doesn't help one little bit. I'd agree she's acted in a very 'dissasociated' way since the crime. The defence argues that the DNA on the knife isn't blood but if it is, I'll bet it matches Kurcher or quite possibly even Knox as well. If, as the Italian authorities say, she cut Kurcher's throat, she may also have accidentally cut herself. That's just a guess on my part but we'll see.

I think the defence is getting desperate with the rock thrown through the window so it was a break in theory. Don't buy that one at all. Guede says he saw someone who looked 'a lot ' like Sollecito at the murder scene. Round and round and round it goes. Very interesting.

Mr Bell what would you believe is the motive?

[FDInLaw]

http://www.friendsofamanda.org/

[SaraSidle]

Well, just because I haven't been posting here doesn't mean I haven't been following the trial.

The next hearing is set for Feb 6 unless the It auths change their minds. Why so long? Well, the It courts only meet 1 or 2 days a week which is why this case will drag on.

I'm waiting for Guede to testify. According to Knox she'd never met him but a witness called 'Julio' (as I remember) has bobbed up to say he saw Guede, Knox and Sollecito together a few days before the murder.

One thing that's interesting is the mobile call made from Kercher's phone to her bank in London. The call couldn't be connected because whoever used the wrong London code. Why her bank? Why then when all of this was going down, or beginning to?

wow Joseph you need to be here more. How do you have so many connections that we do not??????????????

[SaraSidle]

I don't have connections. Just like whoever used the mobile didn't.

No you always more know than we do. Must be a downunder connection. do you think Knox is guilty???????????

[susie31023]

I think Knox was involved in the murder, yes. Whether or not she killed Meredith I don't know. I'd certainly say she had to be involved in trying to cover up the crime. Why change her story so many times if she didn't have anything to hide?

She certainly hasn't helped herself since she's been in custody. The on-line diary, participating in the film, these haven't been smart moves. Either she has an incompetent or inefficient defence team or she won't listen to good advice.

I find it fascinating that only one person from Perugia showed up for Jan 16. It was all media. Then Knox talks to Sollecito about his haircut. For her own sake, she needs to be muzzled.

I haven't read a lot about this case but from all I can gather she is involved and now her parents want us to think she's being railroaded. I have a hard time believing she is innocent. I say let her keep talking and digging her own self deeper in. She doesn't deserve any consideration if she was involved as I believe she was. All of course my own opinion..Yeppers Suz is having one of those days, so every body is catching it tonight,LOL...

[FDInLaw]

http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/eve/1007825660.html


I wonder how many people actually believe Amanda had nothing to do with Meredith's death???

[SaraSidle]

I think Knox was involved in the murder, yes. Whether or not she killed Meredith I don't know. I'd certainly say she had to be involved in trying to cover up the crime. Why change her story so many times if she didn't have anything to hide?

She certainly hasn't helped herself since she's been in custody. The on-line diary, participating in the film, these haven't been smart moves. Either she has an incompetent or inefficient defence team or she won't listen to good advice.

I find it fascinating that only one person from Perugia showed up for Jan 16. It was all media. Then Knox talks to Sollecito about his haircut. For her own sake, she needs to be muzzled.

I so hope the truth comes out in court!!! IMO sara

[Seashell]

Joseph Bell:
I think the whole scene was about sex. 2 men, 2 women. Group sex. Except one of the women didn't want to play along. Then it got out of hand. IMO.

ITA.

[Seashell]

This scares me.

[Seashell]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle5258040.ece
[SIZE="4"]“Knox isn’t obsessed with sex but she sees it as one of the predominant aspects of her life. This has influenced her life in the sense that it influences her relationships with both men and women.”

Before leaving Seattle, Knox, who is fond of making lists and called herself Foxy Knoxy, wrote that buying condoms was one of her priorities. On October 18, 2007, she lists four men with brief descriptions, including an American boyfriend.

Sarzanini comments: “It’s as if you [Knox] were always hunting men. You list your conquests as if you were displaying them like trophies.”

Knox writes to one boyfriend: “I’m waiting for you, I want to see something porno with you and put it into practice with you.” In another list, Knox names four men in Seattle and New York, and three in Florence and Perugia with whom she has had sex.

[/SIZE]
Moral of the story:
Diaries are dangerous to keep.

[FDInLaw]

Posted this before, but it's worth another shout out:

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php

Good spot!




Good to see you Seashell!

[Seashell]

Posted this before, but it's worth another shout out:

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php

Good spot!




Good to see you Seashell!

Thanks for link FD and greeting

[Seashell]

They are indeed. Welcome back Seashell.

You live so close to Italy, I hope if you get the time away from your bustling business life, you can send us the latest links.

It's always good to talk with you Seashell. You have so much common sense.

Thank you JB its nice to be back, it was a terribly sad xmas for me this year and am glad its gone.


This case creeped me out when i read about the way the girl was killed, i also was disgusted to see fotos of foxy knoxy and rafaello kissing and snogging outside the building on the day the police found the girls body.
I feel that they are involved as well as tell me how anyone if innocent would even want to be kissing and snogging the same day your flatmate was found murdered?

[SaraSidle]

Thank you JB its nice to be back, it was a terribly sad xmas for me this year and am glad its gone.


This case creeped me out when i read about the way the girl was killed, i also was disgusted to see fotos of foxy knoxy and rafaello kissing and snogging outside the building on the day the police found the girls body.
I feel that they are involved as well as tell me how anyone if innocent would even want to be kissing and snogging the same day your flatmate was found murdered?

Seashell it is so great to see you back posting. I am very sorry about your painful holidays. I have had that in the past. but anyways I find this a fascinating case and find it wonderful you are here. hugs sara

[susie31023]

Thanks for link FD and greeting

How great to see you again SS. Hope all os well with you and yours,love Susie

[carolethecatlov]

I am Australian, I have been following this case because I was in Italy when it happened.
There was on the BBC website some CCTV footage of a man in a hoodie walking near the crime scene.
The police claim this is Rudy Guede.
A tall, negro, yes, bubble bum, long legs,
But Rudy, I don't think so, Rudy in going into court was 'pidgeon toed',(varus the CCTV shows a 'Duck footed' (valgus)walk.
The question is Was Rudy Guede leg shackled going into court?
Has anybody else looked at this footage?

[avengingangel]

As I currently live only a few miles from Meredith's old neck of the woods, I've taken a lot of interest in this case.

Knox and Sollecito have been busy trashing the poor girl and it's time someone set the record straight.

I'm posting a link and I'm also going to make a personal comment.

Meredith was a lesbian and she would NOT have willingly taken part in ANY 'sex games' with a MAN. She was raped and murdered and IMHO Knox was the prime mover. Her website was full of fantasies about murdering and raping people and she's lied through her teeth so many times it's a joke. She's probably trying to fake an insanity defence.

I wish we still had the death penalty!

http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php




Monday, April 13, 2009
CBS Report Sets New Record For Trashing Of Meredith, Xenophobia, Multi-Inaccuracies, Possible Libels
Posted by Peter Quennell

Those who really know the case well were widely appalled at this vicious and highly misleading piece of propaganda.

A number of complaints have been registered. In the next several days, we’ll be analyzing the CBS report and the reaction at length.

Meanwhile, for those who did not see the CBS report and would like to, try clicking on the image above. It should just open and play.

And if it does not work for you, please tell us, or download and play this zipped version.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 04/13 at 02:22 PM in
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Sunday, April 12, 2009
Meredith’s Perugia #7: Heart Of A Humane And Very Civilized Part Of The World
Posted by Peter Quennell


[click small rectangle next to “HQ” for full screen]

This professional video showcases the Umbria region of which Perugia is the capital city - Umbria’s administration is at the other end of the walled city from where Meredith lived.

It confirms what we all now are realizing. Meredith lived in an important, wealthy and well-maintained town, with excellent transport and shopping, at the center of a bustling, prosperous and very pretty area.

We could imagine her back here in her lifetime, probably again and again and again.

Posted by Peter Quennell on 04/12 at 07:04 AM in
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Saturday, April 11, 2009
CBS Reporter’s Bizarre Claims About Prosecutor And Reporters
Posted by Skeptical Bystander


[click for larger image]

Peter Van Sant of CBS is the slightly confused-looking reporter in the images above and below.

In promoting his “48 Hours” report tonight, which by all accounts seems intent on equaling CBS’s record for worst report on the case, Mr Van Sant has come out with an interview which is an absolute classic for how not to do such things.

First, consider Mr Van Sant’s remarks about one of the prosecutors in the case.

As for the accusation that Kercher was killed over a sex game, Van Sant cites an Italian blogger for putting that notion into the prosecutor’s mind. Van Sant said the blogger claims that she speaks to a dead priest who tells her what happened at crime scenes.

The blogger told the main prosecutor in the Knox trial, Giuliano Minnini, (sic) that this was a satanic sex game and that’s how the theory started, Van Sant said.

Sliming of a prosecutor in this fashion has already been strongly protested against by Amanda Knox’s own defense team.

And the prosecutor in question, one of two (real name: Mignini), many weeks ago made clear that he had NOT listened to the Rome blogger (had locked her up in fact), is NOT especially pushing any particular theory of motive for the crime, is NOT especially central to the continued momentum of the trial - and has actually started a lawsuit against PRECISELY this kind of libel!

Second, consider Mr Van Sant’s remarks about the reporting of the case.

Among the many (actually rather neutral and non-inflammatory) journalists on the case that Mr Van Sant seems intent on sliming is of course Andrea Vogt of the Seattle PI. He all but refers to her by name and it seems rather obvious who he had in mind.

Ms Vogt is the reporter from the Pacific Northwest who is based in Bologna, Italy and who has been covering this case for the Seattle PI for over a year. Many observers have been impressed with her thorough, objective and factual reporting, particularly since the trial phase began.

Anyone who has been following the case knows how non-objective and pro-defense much of the reporting has been in the US, and how much fluffy air time has actually been arranged by the family-hired PR firm Marriott and company.

So the particular focus of Mr Van Sant’s criticism is really surprising. After claiming that Italy has the most irresponsible tabloid press on the planet and that local Seattle papers like the Times and the PI can’t afford to send reporters to Italy to cover the story, he explained that they hire “stringers”. Apparently these stringers simply translate articles from the Italian tabloids into English and, via the local newspaper circuit which publishes them, they get recycled and become legitimate news.

Mr Van Sant actually uses the terms “filtered” or “laundered”, as if he were talking about Mafia money being invested in life insurance policies.

The Seattle PI has enough problems without having to deal with this irresponsible and possibly defamatory remark. And Andrea Vogt, who to our knowledge is the only “stringer” working on this case who is filing stories for the PI, has been providing some of the best coverage of this case to US readers.

There are many good reasons for this: Ms Vogt is fluent in Italian and lives in Italy for much of the year; and she is a talented writer and an intelligent reporter. But most important, she has been making the trek from Bologna to Perugia and back, and spending Fridays and Saturdays in the courtroom for hours on end.

She recently wrote a piece on the mood in Seattle for Panorama, an Italian publication. For that article, she interviewed people in Seattle—including friends of Amanda Knox.

I would imagine that as soon as each daylong court session ends, she sits down - like the other serious reporters covering this case - and tries to turn out a fair and accurate report of the day’s event under very tight deadlines. Her reporting for the PI has been excellent and fair.

It is not only unfair, it is also dishonest to imply that Andrea Vogt is translating Italian tabloids and trying to pass it off as original reporting. If this interview with Mr Van Sant is any indication, then CBS viewers tonight may be in for an evening of fiction.

In which case, I think I’ll watch “The Greatest Story Ever Told” or “The Sound of Music” instead. Closer to reality than is CBS....




Posted by Skeptical Bystander on 04/11 at 12:10 PM in

[nately]

Meredith was a lesbian and she would NOT have willingly taken part in ANY 'sex games' with a MAN. She was raped and murdered and IMHO Knox was the prime mover. Her website was full of fantasies about murdering and raping people and she's lied through her teeth so many times it's a joke. She's probably trying to fake an insanity defence.

Hi Avengingangel, I want to ask you how you know Meredith was a gay woman?
I did not know this and never found any info on this.
Also, I found information that Amanda Knox was bullied at highschool people saying she was a lesbian: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worl...I-lesbian.html

Could there be a connection, or for a motive to kill Meredith related to her sexual orientation, if she indeed was a lesbian?
Just some thoughts and questions here.

[Marian Paroo]

Interesting system they have in Italy with a jury that includes retired(?) judges.

I guess in ensures that there are at least two on the jury that undertand the system well.