Discussion Thread .... Week of 10/1

[Heyes]

Originally posted by MiamiNice1


Oh, Heyes, you haven't read? Joran and 2K have "explained" their lies.....so it's ok.

imo.

Right, skeeeered! lol

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by Heyes


Well fair, I tend to go by what I see. What I've seen and heard is the same as everyone else. What I mean by sidetracking is... If your spending your time talking about what beth ate or didn't eat or what is said at her speeches instead of concentrating on Natalee and the last time she was seen. And who was last seen with her. Then that's is sidetracking. It doesn't matter and is taking the attention away from the case at hand.
I think they should re-investigate all of them.

We know that Joran was the last KNOWN person to be seen with Natalee. Since a long time has elapsed, Joran et al were incarcerated and interrogated for months, then released .... I think it's a fair conclusion to reach, that the Prosecutor was not able to PROVE Joran et al were responsible .... harmed her .... kidnapped her .... raped her .... murdered her. In fact, she has stated that.

Many are convinced Joran is still lying .... many will always be convinced of that, so it doesn't really matter what he says .... he's not going to be believed anyway.

I also think it's perfectly fair to discuss what Beth says in her speeches. What Beth eats, or doesn't eat .... whether or not she sleeps is not something I think about. Beth has inserted herself right in the middle of this investigation. I ALSO think it's fair to criticize what she says. She is giving a speech which includes statements by her, which have not been proven. I can't condone that .... not because it's Beth doing it .... I wouldn't be able to condone it if ANYONE did it.

JMO

[treetime]

Originally posted by Heyes

Right, skeeeered! lol

skeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeered


OH MY

the gambler, drinker, abuser, sneaker out at nighter, LIAR of the century,,

skeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeered

thats LAUGHABLE


help me i have fallen over and cant get up

HELPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPpp

[No Nic]

Originally posted by fairmaiden


<snipped>

Beth has inserted herself right in the middle of this investigation.

<snipped>
JMO

Here is a statement that I just CAN'T BELIEVE anyone would make.

Her daughter went missing in another country ??? "Inserted" herself ?? What do you think she should have done ?? Hidden herself away in a dark room to cry and miss her daughter ?? Should she have quietly *allowed* the Keystone Kops to bungle this investigation ??

I greatly admire Beth for not allowing what transpired in Aruba to go unquestioned. I wish Willard "Bud" Larson's family could have had the same resources and done the same, Aruba needs to realize that AMERICANS value their loved ones and want ANSWERS.

IMO

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by Heyes

Right, skeeeered! lol

For a second I thought you wrote... skeeteereed.

MOO

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by treetime



skeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeered


OH MY

the gambler, drinker, abuser, sneaker out at nighter, LIAR of the century,,

skeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeered

thats LAUGHABLE


help me i have fallen over and cant get up

HELPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPpp

Deepak was skeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeteeeeeeeered. MOO

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by No Nic


Here is a statement that I just CAN'T BELIEVE anyone would make.

Her daughter went missing in another country ??? "Inserted" herself ?? What do you think she should have done ?? Hidden herself away in a dark room to cry and miss her daughter ?? Should she have quietly *allowed* the Keystone Kops to bungle this investigation ??

I greatly admire Beth for not allowing what transpired in Aruba to go unquestioned. I wish Willard "Bud" Larson's family could have had the same resources and done the same, Aruba needs to realize that AMERICANS value their loved ones and want ANSWERS.

IMO

I love how dramatic you can be sometimes, No Nic.

The reason I mentioned that was .... some seem to question the fact Beth is discussed at ALL on the messageboard. They might not have a problem with her being discussed, as long as she is reverently praised. The moment something she does or says is criticized .... then some question why she is being focused on.

Goodness .... it's only Americans who value their loved ones?? Why would you stress AMERICANS in that context??

JMO

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by No Nic


<snip>
I wish Willard "Bud" Larson's family could have had the same resources and done the same, Aruba needs to realize that AMERICANS value their loved ones and want ANSWERS.

IMO

What would have been different?

[Luke Davis]

Thomas Twitty

[treetime]

Originally posted by MiamiNice1


LOLOLOLOL! "Sneaker out at nighter..."

OR

NO SNEAKER, sneaker out at nighter!

WHERE are Joran's sneakers???

imo.

that what i want to know?


where are they

[SukiJane]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
What about the people who try to believe Beth, but just can't when faced with the facts?

I would say those fall in between, just like the ones that would like to think that a seventeen year old Joran is innocent of any wrongdoing, but can't when faced with some very scary facts. jmo

[No Nic]

Originally posted by treetime



skeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeered


OH MY

the gambler, drinker, abuser, sneaker out at nighter, LIAR of the century,,

skeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeered

thats LAUGHABLE


help me i have fallen over and cant get up

HELPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPpp

OMG, Tree. I wasn't here when you fell or I would have rushed to your rescue. ARE YOU OK ?????????

[Luke Davis]

At what point would it be reasonable and acceptable to look at others? It seems to me the time has come.


MOO

[No Nic]

Originally posted by fairmaiden


I love how dramatic you can be sometimes, No Nic.

The reason I mentioned that was .... some seem to question the fact Beth is discussed at ALL on the messageboard. They might not have a problem with her being discussed, as long as she is reverently praised. The moment something she does or says is criticized .... then some question why she is being focused on.

Goodness .... it's only Americans who value their loved ones?? Why would you stress AMERICANS in that context??

JMO

Dramatic? I see nothing dramatic in my post.

I have said this before and I will say it again, it is not simply the fact that Beth is discussed on this board, it is the WAY she is discussed. Vile, disgusting, venomously, hatefully and much, much more. It is OVER the TOP, IMO.

I question how much value ALE and Aruban officials put on a human life, after watching what they have done (or should I say NOT done) in this case.

AMOO

[No Nic]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
What would have been different?

We will never know, will we.

[treetime]

Originally posted by No Nic


OMG, Tree. I wasn't here when you fell or I would have rushed to your rescue. ARE YOU OK ?????????

thank you


i busted a few limbs

[treetime]

i need to leaf for a bit

back later


maybe we can stop getting "stumped" by this case
and branch out some new theories

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by No Nic


We will never know, will we.

We know at this moment both cases have had the same result.

MOO

[No Nic]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
We know at this moment both cases have had the same result.

MOO

Sad, very very sad.

[Gregor's Back]

Originally posted by No Nic




Dramatic? I see nothing dramatic in my post.

I have said this before and I will say it again, it is not simply the fact that Beth is discussed on this board, it is the WAY she is discussed. Vile, disgusting, venomously, hatefully and much, much more. It is OVER the TOP, IMO.

I question how much value ALE and Aruban officials put on a human life, after watching what they have done (or should I say NOT done) in this case.

AMOO

Yes, dramatic is quite descriptive . Actually, overly dramatic.

Beth is no different than anyone else involved in this case. If Joran, the Kalpoes, Joran's family, Dompig and the prosecution are open to criticism, certainly the person who has thrust herself to the forefront of the case, made accusations without a shred of evidence, collected money under false pretenses, and thwarted the investigation in every way she could, is open to scrutiny.

You're in no better position to judge what ALE has or hasn't done than the millions of people who have received their information from biased, generally uninformed as you are, tabloid TV personalties.

[No Nic]

Originally posted by Gregor's Back

Yes, dramatic is quite descriptive . Actually, overly dramatic.

Beth is no different than anyone else involved in this case. If Joran, the Kalpoes, Joran's family, Dompig and the prosecution are open to criticism, certainly the person who has thrust herself to the forefront of the case, made accusations without a shred of evidence, collected money under false pretenses, and thwarted the investigation in every way she could, is open to scrutiny.

You're in no better position to judge what ALE has or hasn't done than the millions of people who have received their information from biased, generally uninformed as you are, tabloid TV personalties.

Beth most certainly IS DIFFERENT than ANYONE else in this case. SHE is the ONLY mother of the missing Natalee Ann Holloway. Or is there another mother that we don't know about.

YOU have nothing to base YOUR judgement on except your own PERSONAL OPINION, so get off your high-horse and accept the fact that there are others who have just as much right to their opinion.

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by Gregor's Back

Yes, dramatic is quite descriptive . Actually, overly dramatic.

Beth is no different than anyone else involved in this case. If Joran, the Kalpoes, Joran's family, Dompig and the prosecution are open to criticism, certainly the person who has thrust herself to the forefront of the case, made accusations without a shred of evidence, collected money under false pretenses, and thwarted the investigation in every way she could, is open to scrutiny.

You're in no better position to judge what ALE has or hasn't done than the millions of people who have received their information from biased, generally uninformed as you are, tabloid TV personalties.

This is so well said, Gregor. Your post, especially the first paragraph is .... well .... you NAILED it!!!

It occurs to me .... trying to discuss this case WITHOUT discussing Beth, is sort of like discussing the making of omelettes without mentioning the eggs!!!

JMO

[shells]

Originally posted by No Nic


Beth most certainly IS DIFFERENT than ANYONE else in this case. SHE is the ONLY mother of the missing Natalee Ann Holloway. Or is there another mother that we don't know about.

YOU have nothing to base YOUR judgement on except your own PERSONAL OPINION, so get off your high-horse and accept the fact that there are others who have just as much right to their opinion.

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by No Nic


<snip> Or is there another mother that we don't know about.

<snip>

Marcia Twitty, mother of Hunter and Thomas. Spokesperson for the family. Confiscated the cameras and cell phones. Instructed the MB grads not to tell their names or the names of the chaperones. Rehearsed interviews with selected friends of Natalee. Did you know about that mother?

MOO

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
Marcia Twitty, mother of Hunter and Thomas. Spokesperson for the family. Confiscated the cameras and cell phones. Instructed the MB grads not to tell their names or the names of the chaperones. Rehearsed interviews with selected friends of Natalee. Did you know about that mother?

MOO

These are OTHER questions which never really get answered, Luke. Why would someone need to do that?? WHY confiscate the cameras, and the cell phones?? What pictures could there be that the Twitty family didn't want seen?? Why is there such secrecy about the "chaperones"?? Is it because they failed miserably in their ONE duty which they seemed to have .... that of handling emergencies .... there might be public outcry ((deservedly so))??

ETA .... Marcia Twitty rehearsed interviews with selected friends?? Well she certainly didn't prepare them very well .... any interview I ever saw of them, they seemed very unsure of answers to very simple questions. They seemed to look to each other for affirmation, before answering any question.

JMO

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by fairmaiden


These are OTHER questions which never really get answered, Luke. Why would someone need to do that?? WHY confiscate the cameras, and the cell phones?? What pictures could there be that the Twitty family didn't want seen?? Why is there such secrecy about the "chaperones"?? Is it because they failed miserably in their ONE duty which they seemed to have .... that of handling emergencies .... there might be public outcry ((deservedly so))??

ETA .... Marcia Twitty rehearsed interviews with selected friends?? Well she certainly didn't prepare them very well .... any interview I ever saw of them, they seemed very unsure of answers to very simple questions. They seemed to look to each other for affirmation, before answering any question.

JMO

I agree. The first interviews didn't look natural. Then they would mumble something about Natalee drinking responsibly and everyone would shake heads.

MOO

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
I agree. The first interviews didn't look natural. Then they would mumble something about Natalee drinking responsibly and everyone would shake heads.

MOO

If there ever was a "coached" phrase to come out of all this .... it's the phrase "drinking responsibly". I always think to myself .... what kid would SAY that?? Her friends might say something like .... "she didn't really drink that much" .... but "she was drinking responsibly"?? It has always sounded, to me, like they were TOLD to say that.

JMO

[No Nic]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
Marcia Twitty, mother of Hunter and Thomas. Spokesperson for the family. Confiscated the cameras and cell phones. Instructed the MB grads not to tell their names or the names of the chaperones. Rehearsed interviews with selected friends of Natalee. Did you know about that mother?

MOO

Nice try, there are a lot of mothers out there, including my own, but none of them are Natalee's mother and that is what the post I was responding to was refering to, BETH.

Seems as if when there is no reasonable or logical response to a post, seems as if the response is to change the subject. Okay........

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by No Nic


Nice try, there are a lot of mothers out there, including my own, but none of them are Natalee's mother and that is what the post I was responding to was refering to, BETH.

Seems as if when there is no reasonable or logical response to a post, seems as if the response is to change the subject. Okay........

Perhaps I misunderstood. Beth is not the only mother to lose a child. There are other mothers related to the case. So, when you ask if you forgot a mother, yes, I think you did.

MOO

[Devotion]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
Mrs. Twitty's nephews were in Aruba at CnC. They didn't tell the truth. Thomas Twitty had a lawyer before he got back. They refused to be interviewed by FBI/ALE. But that isn't relevant because they aren't friends of Joran. Jug refused to give a DNA sample which could have implicated Thomas Twitty.

MOO

IMO: There seems to be many unanswered questions in this case....jmo

[No Nic]

Originally posted by Luke Davis
Perhaps I misunderstood. Beth is not the only mother to lose a child. There are other mothers related to the case. So, when you ask if you forgot a mother, yes, I think you did.

MOO

No, Beth is not the only mother to lose a child, but she is the only mother in this case to lose a child. Your response was to bring up Marcia, when did she lose a child? Maybe I also misunderstood???

imo

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by No Nic


No, Beth is not the only mother to lose a child, but she is the only mother in this case to lose a child. Your response was to bring up Marcia, when did she lose a child? Maybe I also misunderstood???

imo

You lost me. If you are saying Beth is different, I agree. But everyone is different. Is Beth the only one to lose a child? I don't know. Does everyone have to treat people differently because they lost a child?

You seem to be saying that a mother has a special privaledge of not being suspect but we know mothers kill their children. Why shouldn't we look at Beth and the Twitty family? If it is so obvious that they are innocent why would they mind some skeptics asking a few question and looking at DNA?

MOO

[Luke Davis]

Originally posted by Devotion

IMO: There seems to be many unanswered questions in this case....jmo

I agree. Open the shades and let the sunshine in. Let's get some answers.

MOO

[Chocoholic]

Time and again I am entertained by those who appear to have watched too many US cop shows. One can watch a crime take place on tv and still the person who is obviously guilty of the crime gets the line "The suspect is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law".

Neither Joran nor the Kalpoe brothers were caught at doing anything but for Natalee willingly getting into a car, even after her friends urged her to get out. There is no evidence, circumstantial or otherwise that would put any of the three above or any of the other suspects that have been taken into custody into the same category as a suspect in the US simply because in the US more proof is required before a person can be arrested and held in custody, even for 48 hrs.

Unfortunately many still can't get their minds wrapped around the concept that "suspect" in the US has a different meaning in than under Aruban or Dutch law.

Their loss, but what a crying shame.

So far no evidence of even a crime having taken place. NONE.

[Heyes]

Originally posted by treetime



skeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeered


OH MY

the gambler, drinker, abuser, sneaker out at nighter, LIAR of the century,,

skeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeered

thats LAUGHABLE


help me i have fallen over and cant get up

HELPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPpp

Actually tree, just about everything joran said is laughable. Not an ounce of remorse or concern towards Natalee, just blame.

Hard to believe there's much that skeeeeeeeers that kid.
He is cetainly lacking a thing called decorum. His flaunting the blond, ( gotta question that ones brain cell count), at the Hotel in aruba is just one great example.

[Heyes]

Originally posted by No Nic


Beth most certainly IS DIFFERENT than ANYONE else in this case. SHE is the ONLY mother of the missing Natalee Ann Holloway. Or is there another mother that we don't know about.

YOU have nothing to base YOUR judgement on except your own PERSONAL OPINION, so get off your high-horse and accept the fact that there are others who have just as much right to their opinion.

Very well said! It seems that the only thing we have to do is BELIEVE joran and then all will be well. I just can't figure out how I'm supposed to believe this primary suspect who has told multiple lies.
We are told constantly that we must be lacking in our evaluation of the situation because we don't have "open minds". This is too funny, after knowing the facts which are simple, Joran = last guy with natalee. Joran = lying about his alibi, we are supposed to believe she might of swam off into the sea. or just ran away. I chose to go with the obvious instead of making up some far fetched scenario to make the liar seem innocent. Those that ridicule our posts seem to forget that they hold no more insight than anyone else on this board. Enough with the open mind comments, it's becoming laughable. I remember being told time and time again that I didn't have an "open mind" during the Scott peterson trial. Guess what! Once again, the last person with the victim that lied his butt of is on death row. How well did that "open mind " work for them on that one????????? Maybe open mind really means big black hole? lol

[treetime]

Originally posted by Heyes



Actually tree, just about everything joran said is laughable. Not an ounce of remorse or concern towards Natalee, just blame.

Hard to believe there's much that skeeeeeeeers that kid.
He is cetainly lacking a thing called decorum. His flaunting the blond, ( gotta question that ones brain cell count), at the Hotel in aruba is just one great example.

yep

[fairmaiden]

Originally posted by Heyes


Very well said! It seems that the only thing we have to do is BELIEVE joran and then all will be well. I just can't figure out how I'm supposed to believe this primary suspect who has told multiple lies.
We are told constantly that we must be lacking in our evaluation of the situation because we don't have "open minds". This is too funny, after knowing the facts which are simple, Joran = last guy with natalee. Joran = lying about his alibi, we are supposed to believe she might of swam off into the sea. or just ran away. I chose to go with the obvious instead of making up some far fetched scenario to make the liar seem innocent. Those that ridicule our posts seem to forget that they hold no more insight than anyone else on this board. Enough with the open mind comments, it's becoming laughable. I remember being told time and time again that I didn't have an "open mind" during the Scott peterson trial. Guess what! Once again, the last person with the victim that lied his butt of is on death row. How well did that "open mind " work for them on that one????????? Maybe open mind really means big black hole? lol

Heyes .... I don't think anyone is telling you you should BELIEVE Joran. I'm positive, no matter WHAT he would say, you WOULDN'T believe him.

There are a couple of "facts" you mentioned, that really are just speculation on your part. He was the last KNOWN person with Natalee, so your insistence that he was the "last guy with Natalee" is NOT a fact. There is no doubt he lied about his alibi, but that does not prove he harmed Natalee.

Being "open minded", to me, means that ANY scenario which might have happened here, should be considered. If we are truly interested in some resolution, we must be willing to consider ALL things .... that could include an accident .... it could include her voluntarily leaving .... it could include some harm coming to her after Joran left her on the beach .... and lastly, it could include Joran et al harming her.

I've considered the last scenario .... I have ALSO said that, IF credible evidence is found implicating Joran et al, they should be arrested, charged, tried, convicted, and punished. There are posters who are not willing to discuss anything OTHER than the last scenario. That's just not being "open minded" to me, especially since the Prosecutor has said, there is no evidence of any crime!!

I know this probably wasn't your intention .... but there really is no comparison here to Scott Peterson.

JMO

[treetime]

the FACT is that JORAN is the LAST person to be with Natalee
as we know it right now
In other words thats the FACT JACK



there is not a HINT of evidence that ANYONE other than JORAN was with Natalee



BANK IT

CRANK IT

TANK IT --------- just like ARUBA TOURISM

[Twinky]

Originally posted by fairmaiden


If there ever was a "coached" phrase to come out of all this .... it's the phrase "drinking responsibly". I always think to myself .... what kid would SAY that?? Her friends might say something like .... "she didn't really drink that much" .... but "she was drinking responsibly"?? It has always sounded, to me, like they were TOLD to say that.

JMO

Absolutely true fm, particularly when they were lying and they knew it. Not one of their 302's even mention 'responsibly,' rather words, like "we had to tell her several times to slow it down' or she had to be escorted to her room b/c she was too drunk.