Police: 7 dead in wrong-way crash on NY parkway

[samanthajane13]

BRIARCLIFF, N.Y. – Police say a three-car crash on a parkway in suburban New York City has killed seven people.

The Journal News reports on its Web site at least three children are dead following the Sunday afternoon crash in Briarcliff.

State police tell the Journal News a minivan was heading the wrong way in the northbound lanes of the Taconic State Parkway when it crashed head on into an SUV. A third vehicle also was involved.

Police say three children riding in the minivan were killed along with the van's driver.

Three people in one of the other vehicles also were killed.

The parkway has been closed in the area in both directions.

___

Information from: The Journal News, http://www.thejournalnews.com


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090726/ap_on_re_us/us_wrong_way_crash

[samanthajane13]

4 kids, 4 adults die in NY parkway wrong-way crash

BRIARCLIFF, N.Y. – Police say a car crash on a parkway in suburban New York City has killed eight people, including four children and an adult of the same family.

State police say their minivan was heading the wrong way in the northbound lanes of the Taconic State Parkway in Briarcliff on Sunday afternoon when it crashed head on into an SUV. It also struck a third vehicle. The minivan spun into an embankment and burst into flames.

It was the second wrong-way crash on the parkway Sunday.

Police say four children riding in the minivan were killed along with the van's driver. The children were ages 2, 5, 7 and 9. A fifth child is hospitalized.

Three people in the SUV also were killed.

Five people were injured in an accident hours earlier about 20 miles north.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

BRIARCLIFF, N.Y. (AP) — Police say a car crash on a parkway in suburban New York City has killed eight people, including four children.

State police tell the Journal News a minivan was heading the wrong way in the northbound lanes of the Taconic State Parkway in Briarcliff on Sunday afternoon when it crashed head on into an SUV. A third vehicle also was involved.

It was the second wrong-way crash on the parkway Sunday.

Police say four children riding in the minivan were killed along with the van's driver.

Three people in one of the other vehicles also were killed.

The parkway has been closed in the area in both directions.

Five people were injured in an accident hours earlier about 20 miles north.

___

Information from: The Journal News, http://www.thejournalnews.com

[samanthajane13]

4 cousins, mom, 3 others die in NY wrong-way crash

By JIM FITZGERALD, Associated Press Writer Jim Fitzgerald, Associated Press Writer – 2 hrs 15 mins ago

BRIARCLIFF MANOR, N.Y. – A family's minivan going in the wrong direction crashed into two cars on a suburban parkway on Sunday, killing eight people, including four young cousins and the mother of one of them.

State police Investigator Joseph Becerra said the minivan was traveling southbound in the northbound lanes of the Taconic State Parkway in Westchester County, just north of New York City, when it struck an SUV and then careened into a third vehicle. The minivan rolled down an embankment, where it burst into flames.

The minivan's front end appeared to have been almost entirely smashed in, and its shell was scorched and bent. At least one wheel was blown out.

Fire spread from under the minivan, throughout its shell, within minutes.

The woman driving the minivan and four of the five children inside it were killed, Becerra said. They were part of a family from Floral Park and West Babylon, on Long Island.

The children who died were girls ages 2, 5, 7 and 9. The fifth child, a boy, age 5, was hospitalized.

The minivan's 36-year-old driver was the mother of the surviving child, and the other children were her nieces and her daughter, Becerra said.

The afternoon accident was the second wrong-way crash on the parkway on Sunday, and police said they didn't know why either driver was going in the wrong direction or where the drivers entered the parkway. Five people were injured in an early morning collision between two vehicles, one of which was headed northbound in the southbound lanes. That accident occurred about 20 miles north of the later incident.

A witness to the fatal crash, Katrina Papha, who was traveling north on the parkway to a family barbecue in Mahopac, said she saw the accident in her rearview mirror.

"One car goes this way, one goes that way, up in the air, both of them," she said. "I was crying. I was shaking."

Her brother, Peter Dedvukaj, driving in another vehicle, said he saw smoke ahead and traffic came to a standstill.

"People were getting out to help, shouting, 'We need help! We need help!'" Dedvukaj said. "Everybody said, 'There are kids in the car.'"

He said he and others opened a door of the minivan and "there was a body in front of us." He said they helped pull out the children they could see — two girls, who appeared to be dead, and a boy, who was kicking and screaming.

Hawthorne fire Chief Joe LaGrippo, among the first emergency responders to arrive at the scene of the accident in the tiny village of Briarcliff Manor, about 35 miles northwest of New York City, said the boy suffered significant head trauma.

LaGrippo said that when he got there the minivan was engulfed in flames. He said one of the children was dead and three others were near death.

"We go out quite frequently, but thank God we've never seen anything of this magnitude," LaGrippo said.

Three men from Yonkers in the SUV were killed, Becerra said. Two people in the other vehicle hit by the minivan were hospitalized.

The parkway, which stretches about 100 miles from Valhalla, in Westchester County, to East Chatham, in Columbia County, was closed to traffic in both directions in the area for hours following the crash.

Later, four people died in a crash on Long Island's Montauk Highway in Copiague. In that incident, a car and a minivan collided, killing three passengers in the car and one in the minivan.

The scenic Taconic State Parkway was built over a number of years in stages beginning in the early 1920s, initially as an extension of the Bronx Parkway from New York City to Bear Mountain Bridge.

___

Associated Press radio reporter Craig Smith contributed to this story from Washington, D.C.

(This version CORRECTS surname of witness, Papha, not Dedvukaj.)


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090727/ap_on_re_us/us_wrong_way_crash

[samanthajane13]

NY police probe for causes of wrong-way crashes
By JIM FITZGERALD, Associated Press Writer Jim Fitzgerald, Associated Press Writer – Mon Jul 27, 3:01 am ET

BRIARCLIFF MANOR, N.Y. – Authorities are trying to determine how a woman driving a minivan carrying two of her children and three young nieces got onto a suburban parkway heading in the wrong direction, leading to a fiery crash that killed eight people and left a 5-year-old boy severely injured.

The afternoon crash in which the 36-year-old mother, her daughter and nieces died was the second wrong-way crash on the Taconic State Parkway on Sunday. Police also are investigating how a driver in an earlier accident also ended up on the road going against traffic.

The crashes on the parkway north of New York City happened 20 miles apart.

The minivan involved in the fatal crash was traveling south in the northbound lanes when it hit an SUV and then careened into a third vehicle, said state police Investigator Joseph Becerra. The minivan rolled down an embankment and burst into flames.

The minivan's front end appeared to have been almost entirely smashed in, and its shell was scorched and bent. Its driver and four of the five children inside it were killed, Becerra said. They were part of a family from Floral Park and West Babylon, on Long Island.

The children who died were girls ages 2, 5, 7 and 9. The fifth child, a boy, age 5, was hospitalized.

The minivan's driver was the surviving child's mother, and the other children were her daughters and nieces, Becerra said.

A witness to the fatal crash, Katrina Papha, who was traveling north on the parkway to a family barbecue in Mahopac, said she saw the accident in her rearview mirror.

"One car goes this way, one goes that way, up in the air, both of them," she said. "I was crying. I was shaking."

Her brother, Peter Dedvukaj, driving in another vehicle, said he saw smoke ahead and traffic came to a standstill.

"People were getting out to help, shouting, 'We need help! We need help!'" Dedvukaj said. "Everybody said, 'There are kids in the car.'"

He said he and others opened a door of the minivan and "there was a body in front of us." He said they helped pull out the children they could see — two girls, who appeared to be dead, and a boy, who was kicking and screaming.

Hawthorne fire Chief Joe LaGrippo, among the first emergency responders to arrive at the scene of the accident in the tiny village of Briarcliff Manor, about 35 miles northwest of New York City, said the boy suffered significant head trauma.

LaGrippo said that when he got there the minivan was engulfed in flames. He said one of the children was dead and three others were near death.

"We go out quite frequently, but thank God we've never seen anything of this magnitude," LaGrippo said.

He said his unit worked to save the 5-year-old boy. "They saved a life," he said. "He would have never made it, if they didn't do what they had to do for him right there."

Three men from Yonkers in the SUV were killed, Becerra said. Two people in the other vehicle hit by the minivan were hospitalized.

Earlier Sunday, five people were injured in a collision between two vehicles, one of which was headed north in the parkway's southbound lanes. That accident occurred about 20 miles north of the fatal crash.

The scenic Taconic State Parkway winds north about 100 miles from Valhalla, in Westchester County, to East Chatham, in Columbia County. It was built in stages beginning in the early 1920s, initially as an extension of the Bronx Parkway from New York City to the Bear Mountain Bridge.

Most of the parkway's entry points have ramps that drivers use to merge into traffic. But some sections of the parkway have crossroads with traffic lights or stop signs where drivers can turn into either the northbound or southbound lanes.

Police on Sunday said they hadn't yet determined why either driver was going in the wrong direction or where they entered the parkway.

___

Associated Press radio reporter Craig Smith contributed to this story from Washington, D.C.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090727/ap_on_re_us/us_wrong_way_crash

[samanthajane13]

Cops: NY driver in deadly wrong-way crash felt ill
By DEEPTI HAJELA, Associated Press Writer Deepti Hajela, Associated Press Writer – 32 mins ago

HAWTHORNE, N.Y. – A minivan driver apparently wasn't feeling well before going the wrong way on a suburban parkway for nearly 2 miles, leading to a fiery wreck that killed eight people, police said Monday.

The crash in Briarcliff Manor claimed driver Diane Schuller, 36, of West Babylon, as well as her 2-year-old daughter, Erin, and three young nieces. Three Yonkers men in the car she hit also died.

The minivan belonged to Schuller's brother, Warren Hance. Schuller apparently told him in a phone call about two hours earlier that she was feeling ill, state police said at a news conference. Hance told her to pull over and said he would go to get her. It's unclear where she was at the time or exactly what occurred after that.

Six people called 911 to say a driver was going the wrong way.

It was the second wrong-way crash Sunday on the Taconic State Parkway. The other occurred about 20 miles north of there.

Besides the Schullers, the crash killed Hance's three daughters: Emma Hance, 9; Alison, 7; and Kate, 5. Schuller's son, Brian, 5, was in stable condition at Westchester Medical Center.

The other victims were headed to a family party in Yorktown: driver Guy *******i, 49; his father, Michael *******i, 81; and Daniel Longo, 74, all of Yonkers.

The cousins lived in a two-story, expanded Cape-style house in Floral Park, N.Y., a tidy Long Island neighborhood filled with stately old trees.

On Monday, mourners gathered on the lawn. A man with reddened eyes asked reporters for privacy. A priest arrived, and village workers put up barricades blocking off the street.

"I can't say `I'm sorry' to them yet, because I'm too upset," said neighbor Irma Quinones, 60, a healthcare worker, who had been praying for the family.

She recalled the children playing, and the 9-year-old looking after her two younger sisters.

*******i's vehicle crashed into a third car; its occupants escaped serious injury.

___

Associated Press Writer Frank Eltman on Long Island contributed to this report.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090727/ap_on_re_us/us_wrong_way_crash

[samanthajane13]

Questions loom about mom in NY crash that killed 8
By FRANK ELTMAN, Associated Press Writer Frank Eltman, Associated Press Writer – 58 mins ago

FLORAL PARK, N.Y. – Diane Schuler was a devoted mother admired for her competence, ease with children and sense of humor. Never, her family said, had there been a more responsible and trusted friend or caregiver.

So far, no one can pinpoint why Schuler, 36, drove the wrong way on a familiar suburban New York parkway for nearly 2 miles before slamming head-on into another vehicle, killing herself and seven others.

State police investigating the fiery July 26 wreck on the Taconic State Parkway are examining a phone call Schuler made to her brother shortly before the crash. She was taking her two children and three nieces home from an upstate camping trip at the time.

A medical examiner is digging deeper for answers after ruling that Schuler didn't have a heart attack or stroke behind the wheel, and plans further testing to determine whether she had signs of an advanced diabetic condition.

The crash — the worst in the parkway's 75-year history — killed Schuler, her 2-year-old daughter and three nieces ages 5,7 and 8, as well as three Yonkers men in the SUV hit by her minivan. Only Schuler's 5-year-old son survived.

"I have never heard of eight people being killed in an accident of this kind," said Peter Plante, a retired Connecticut state trooper and traffic accident reconstruction expert. "It's almost as if it were a perfect storm of circumstances with so many people in each vehicle."

Douglas Hayden, an attorney and spokesman for the Long Island family, declined comment on the investigation Friday.

The accident happened on a sunny and clear summer afternoon in Briarcliff Manor on a route from upstate New York to Long Island that Schuler had driven many times before. She found herself going south in the northbound lanes as motorists sought in vain to get her attention; six drivers called 911 before the collision.

One of the few clues state police have is a telephone conversation between Schuler and her brother, Warren Hance, the father of the older girls who died. About a half-hour before the wreck, Schuler called Hance at his home in Floral Park and seemed disoriented, saying she was having trouble seeing. Her husband had left the campground earlier Sunday for a fishing trip, police said.

At one point, Hance's 8-year-old daughter Emma took her aunt's cell phone and spoke to her father, indicating the van had just crossed the Tappan Zee Bridge south into Westchester County. Hance then told his sister to stay put and he would drive from Long Island to meet her, instructions she disregarded.

Family friend Lisa Acosta said the Schulers camped almost every weekend at the same upstate park, and said Schuler knew the route so well she could have driven it blindfolded.

"I don't understand," said Acosta. "It's a really, really sad thing."

Schuler's cell phone was left at the parking area south of the bridge, where she last spoke to her brother. A motorist found it later in the day.

After forensic pathologists ruled out a stroke, aneurysm or heart attack, Dr. Kunjlata Ashar, deputy medical examiner for Westchester County, said she would test Schuler's eye fluid for evidence of heightened blood sugar levels, a possible sign of ketoacidosis.

The American Diabetes Association says ketoacidosis is a life-threatening condition that can cause shortness of breath, nausea and confusion.

Noted forensic pathologist Dr. Michael Baden doubted that possibility for Schuler.

"People just don't have a hypoglycemic crisis out of the blue," said Baden, who has been an expert witness in cases involving celebrities such as John Belushi, O.J. Simpson, Phil Spector and David Carradine. "The family would know right away if this woman had issues with diabetes."

Baden said other toxicology testing results, due within four to six weeks, could yield some answers.

"They didn't see anything in the autopsy that could account for this behavior," he said. "Now they are going under the microscope to see if they can find something."

Ashar said her testing also has ruled out carbon monoxide poisoning as a possible cause.

Except for issuing a written statement about the victims, the Schuler and Hance families have chosen to grieve privately.

"Diane was an accomplished working mother who balanced her responsibilities with grace; she always put her children before any other priorities," the family statement said.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090802/ap_on_re_us/us_wrong_way_crash

[RaVeN71806]

this is very sad :(..:rose:

[samanthajane13]

NY police: Wrong-way crash driver was drunk, high
By FRANK ELTMAN, Associated Press Writer Frank Eltman, Associated Press Writer – 1 hr 46 mins ago

GARDEN CITY, N.Y. – A mother drank vodka and smoked marijuana while taking a vanload of children home from a weekend camping trip that ended in disaster when she went the wrong way on a highway and crashed into an SUV, killing eight people, police said Tuesday.

Diane Schuler, who died along with her 2-year-old daughter and three nieces in her red minivan, had more than 10 drinks of alcohol in her system and a high level of the main ingredient in marijuana, authorities said. A broken 1.75-liter bottle of Absolut vodka was found in her wrecked minivan, police said.

The revelations from the 36-year-old Long Island woman's autopsy helped explain how the woman her family called "an accomplished working mother who always put her children before any other priorities" wound up driving the wrong way for nearly two miles on a suburban parkway before slamming into the SUV.

The July 26 crash on the Taconic State Parkway, about 35 miles northwest of New York City, also killed three men in the SUV. Schuler's 5-year-old son, in her minivan, survived.

Investigators said Schuler had been driving erratically on other upstate roads before getting on the highway for the 140-mile trip home.

Schuler's blood-alcohol level was well above the legal limit, and she still had undigested alcohol in her stomach, State Police Maj. William Carey said Tuesday.

Blood tests also showed she had smoked marijuana 15 minutes to an hour before the crash, said Betsy Spratt, chief toxicologist for the Westchester County medical examiner.

"With that level of alcohol ... she would have had difficulty with perception, with her judgment, with her memory," Spratt said. "You start to get what we call tunnel vision."

Police said no criminal charges were planned in the case.

Roseann Guzzo, whose father and brother were killed in the SUV, said Tuesday her family wanted to meet with prosecutors to discuss the case.

"We're outraged by it," she said. "It's a choice she made. And that choice she made to us is like she committed murder."

State police have been investigating why Schuler, who was a regular upstate campground visitor, would have been driving toward her home the wrong way on a highway she had driven many times before.

Toxicology reports found the businesswoman's blood-alcohol level was 0.19, more than twice the state's legal limit of 0.08, Carey said. She also had 6 grams of undigested alcohol in her stomach, Carey said.

Schuler's husband, Daniel, told investigators that everything seemed fine when he and his wife left the Sullivan County campground at about 9:30 a.m. on the morning of the crash. He went on a fishing trip while his wife headed home with the children, stopping at a McDonald's on the way, police said.

Her brother, the father of the three girls who died, said she called him about a half-hour before the wreck sounding disoriented and saying she didn't feel well. Schuler's 8-year-old niece also spoke briefly with her father from the highway. The woman's cell phone was later found abandoned at a rest stop.

Witnesses said they saw Schuler's minivan straddling two lanes and tailgating, with its headlights flashing and horn beeping.

Others saw the vehicle veering from one lane to another, and one witness said it appeared as if she was attempting to pass him on the shoulder of the highway. Another witness said the van drove across a grass divider at a service area.

Six drivers called 911 before the collision, which happened after Schuler drove 1.7 miles south in the parkway's northbound lane.

An attorney who served as a family spokesman at funerals last week did not immediately return a telephone message left by The Associated Press on Tuesday.

Floral Park village police blocked access to the home of Schuler's brother and said no one was there to comment. There was no answer when a reporter knocked on the door of the Schuler family home in West Babylon.

Neither Schuler's husband nor extended family has spoken with reporters about the crash. The families issued a statement last week calling Schuler "a devoted mother to her children, Bryan and Erin."

"She was a constant, doting presence in her nieces' lives, and our extended family admired her competence, ease with children and sense of humor," it said. "Never has there been a more responsible and trusted friend or caregiver."

___

Associated Press writer Cristian Salazar contributed to this report.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090805/ap_on_re_us/us_wrong_way_crash

[samanthajane13]

Lawyer: NY mom in wrong-way crash rarely drank
By FRANK ELTMAN, Associated Press Writer Frank Eltman, Associated Press Writer – 10 mins ago

GARDEN CITY, N.Y. – An attorney says the woman who drove drunk and caused a New York highway crash that killed eight people rarely drank.

Dominic Barbara says 36-year-old Diane Schuler wasn't an alcoholic but was diabetic and may have suffered a stroke before the July 26 crash north of New York City. He says she also had a mouth abscess for several weeks and a bump on her leg.

Schuler's husband, Daniel, says he never saw her drunk since the day he met her.

Police say Schuler downed more than 10 vodkas and smoked marijuana before her minivan crashed into an SUV. Her 2-year-old daughter and three nieces were killed with her, and three men driving in the SUV. Schuler's 5-year-old son survived.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

GARDEN CITY, N.Y. (AP) — An attorney says the woman who drove drunk and caused a New York highway crash that killed eight people was diabetic and may have suffered a stroke.

Dominic Barbara says 36-year-old Diane Schuler had diabetes, a mouth abcess for several weeks and a bump on her leg before the July 26 crash north of New York City.

Barbara represents Schuler's husband, Daniel. He says that "I think she had a stroke of some sort."

Police say Schuler downed more than 10 vodkas and smoked marijuana before her minivan crashed into an SUV. Her 2-year-old daughter and three nieces were killed with her, and three men driving in the SUV. Schuler's 5-year-old son survived.


Husband says mother in NY crash wasn't a drinker
By FRANK ELTMAN, Associated Press Writer Frank Eltman, Associated Press Writer – 29 mins ago

GARDEN CITY, N.Y. – The husband of a suburban New York mother who caused a car crash that killed her and seven others said Thursday she didn't have a drinking problem and suggested diabetes and other health problems were to blame.

"She was not a drinker. She was not an alcoholic," Daniel Schuler said at a tearful news conference with his sister and lawyer. "Something medically had to have happened."

Schuler's attorney, Dominic Barbara, said the 36-year-old Cablevision executive had diabetes, a suspicious bump on her leg and a mouth abscess that hadn't been treated for weeks before the deadly July 26 wreck.

"I think she had a stroke of some sort," Barbara said. "From the stroke came all the other issues."

Police say Schuler downed more than 10 vodkas and smoked marijuana before driving her minivan nearly two miles on the Taconic State Parkway and slamming head-on into a sport-utility vehicle. Her 2-year-old daughter and three nieces were killed with her, along with three men in the SUV. Schuler's 5-year-old son survived.

Her blood-alcohol level was more than twice the state's legal limit, and she had smoked pot as soon as 15 minutes before the crash, according to toxicology reports from the Westchester County medical examiner's office.

Daniel Schuler said that he never saw his wife drunk since he met her, and that the couple went through a normal routine on the Sunday before he last saw her at a campsite in upstate New York.

"She was fine," he said. "We had a cup of coffee in the morning, we packed the cars up like we always do and we headed out."

Daniel Schuler went fishing for the day, while Diane Schuler began a 140-mile trip home to Long Island with her kids and three nieces, ages 5 to 8. The fiery wreck happened about four hours after she left, and after motorists called 911 to report her erratic driving on several roads.

Barbara said a frequent baby sitter for the West Babylon couple never saw Schuler drink or smoke pot. Her sister-in-law also defended her.

"Family was the most important thing to her," said Joy Schuler, Daniel's sister. "There was no way she would ever jeopardize the children."

The family has not decided whether to seek another autopsy for Schuler and is awaiting more information from the county's autopsy report, Barbara said.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090806/ap_on_re_us/us_wrong_way_crash

[BeastofBears]

I could be wrong, but this sounds like an insulin reaction to me, either very high or very low. There are a lot of things that can mimic alcohol in a diabetic. High sugar, itself, can do that on a breathalyzer test http://www.avvo.com/legal-guides/ugc/diabetes-and-the-counterfeit-dui

Aspartame, the artificial sweetener, breaks down as methyl alcohol for example. http://www.dorway.com/betty/diabetes.html. Perhaps the vitreous alcohol test measured this, or there was some other chemical reaction that gave a false positive.

Please don't hold the lady responsible without knowing the whole story, which I think will come out in time. My diabetic dad was accused of drunk driving without having had a drink, so it happens... I really think this was a blood sugar problem, not an alcohol problem (the marijuana, I don't think diabetes explains that, but it sticks in your system for 30 days, right?)

all imo and moo

ETA: the police don't seem to have witnesses that said she drank 10 vodkas, but that the toxicology says she had to have drunk 10 vodkas.http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,537666,00.html?test=latestnews

[samanthajane13]

Husband denies alcoholism in NY wrong-way crash
By FRANK ELTMAN, Associated Press Writer Frank Eltman, Associated Press Writer – 11 mins ago

GARDEN CITY, N.Y. – She couldn't have been drunk and stoned. Her husband had never seen her intoxicated before. And there were absolutely no marital problems that could have sent her over the edge.

In an anguished, sometimes angry news conference, Daniel Schuler refused to accept an autopsy report that showed his wife had the equivalent of 10 drinks and smoked marijuana within an hour of the wrong-way highway crash that killed her and seven other people.

"I never saw her drunk since the day I met her," Daniel Schuler told reporters at a press conference outside his attorney's office. "She was not a drinker. She was not an alcoholic."

He suggested anything from a stroke to gestational diabetes to even an abscessed tooth could have caused his wife to act irrationally in the hours before her death.

Daniel Schuler also disputed reports that problems with their marriage drove her to the bottle, calling her "a perfect wife" and saying he "would marry her again tomorrow" if he could.

Diane Schuler, 36, drove the wrong way for nearly two miles on the Taconic State Parkway and struck a sport utility vehicle. The July 26 crash killed her 2-year-old daughter, three young nieces and three men in the SUV.

A broken 1.75-liter bottle of Absolut vodka was found in her wrecked minivan, police said.

Family of the men in the SUV had questioned how Schuler's family could have been oblivious to an alcohol abuse problem and suggested criminal charges were possible. An attorney for the victims' family didn't return calls Thursday.

A preliminary autopsy of Diane Schuler ruled out a stroke, heart attack, or aneurysm, Westchester County officials said. The medical examiner said Thursday that he stood by his report that found her blood-alcohol level was more than twice the state's legal limit, she still had undigested alcohol in her stomach, and she had high levels of the key ingredient in marijuana in her system.

Police said Thursday that Daniel Schuler wasn't cooperating with their investigation. Officers that came to Long Island "for a prearranged interview" were not allowed to question him.

Schuler's attorney, Dominic Barbara, didn't say when Schuler would be available for an interview. Police interviewed him once last week.

Barbara said Diane Schuler was once diagnosed with gestational diabetes — which usually goes away after childbirth — had an undiagnosed lump on her leg and was suffering from an abscessed tooth for nearly two months. It was not clear how any of those maladies would prompt someone to become intoxicated.

Barbara — a divorce attorney who frequently appears on Howard Stern's radio show and who has represented Joey Buttafuoco, actress Lindsey Lohan's father Michael and Victoria Gotti — suggested some sort of stroke may have led Diane Schuler to act irrationally. He noted witnesses who saw Schuler on the highway reported that she was driving erratically, moving in and out of lanes, honking her horn and flashing her headlights.

"This is not the actions of a person who is drunk. Something happened," Barbara said. "And I think something happened to her brain."

He said he couldn't explain the alcohol or marijuana in her system.

A substance abuse expert said Thursday that close family are sometimes the last to know about a loved one's problem.

"Families are often in denial and can't deal with the reality that a family member has a problem," said Marc Galanter, director of the Division of Alcoholism and Substance Abuse at New York University.

Joy Schuler, Daniel Schuler's sister, who said she and Diane were "best friends," said she never hesitated to leave her own child in Schuler's care. Schuler had been a nanny before becoming an executive with Cablevision, she said.

"She loved children, her nieces were her girls," Joy Schuler said. "There is no way she would ever jeopardize her children."

The Schulers' 5-year-old son survived. His father said the little boy is still hospitalized, but his condition is improving.

Daniel Schuler said the couple went through a normal routine on the Sunday before he last saw her at a campsite in upstate New York.

"She was fine," he said. "We had a cup of coffee in the morning, we packed the cars up like we always do and we headed out."

The family has not decided whether to seek another autopsy and is awaiting more information from the county's autopsy report, Barbara said.

The attorney declined to allow Daniel Schuler to answer any questions regarding the marijuana allegations, citing his client's job as a security officer for Nassau County.

Daniel Schuler, 37, began to break down emotionally as the press conference ended.

"I go to bed every night knowing my heart is clear," he said. "She did not drink. She is not an alcoholic. Something medically had to happen."


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090806/ap_on_re_us/us_wrong_way_crash

[BeastofBears]

Well, as hard as it is to believe...

"A broken 1.75-liter bottle of Absolut vodka was found in her wrecked minivan, police said." (from above)

Could a mother really have done this? Could a family not know?

[SaraSidle]

Well, as hard as it is to believe...

"A broken 1.75-liter bottle of Absolut vodka was found in her wrecked minivan, police said." (from above)

Could a mother really have done this? Could a family not know?

BOB not passing judgement. She was obviously sick but I am beginning to think Suicide. I think she thought she would have more time to drive. Lots of assuming on my part. IMO sara

[BeastofBears]

BOB not passing judgement. She was obviously sick but I am beginning to think Suicide. I think she thought she would have more time to drive. Lots of assuming on my part. IMO sara

Something just still seems so not right about this to me...I mean, why would she call her brother to tell him she felt disoriented and odd, couldn't see right? Denmark+stench=fishy. I suppose she could have been trying to cover something up...

I hope they are looking into murder on this. What if someone slipped something into her cranberry juice or something? I'm not a big drinker...is there a common car drink in which you wouldn't taste vodka?

I realize I'm stretching, and I totally know about alcoholism, but something just feels wrong about it no matter how often I see NG ranting on it...

[SaraSidle]

Something just still seems so not right about this to me...I mean, why would she call her brother to tell him she felt disoriented and odd, couldn't see right? Denmark+stench=fishy. I suppose she could have been trying to cover something up...

I hope they are looking into murder on this. What if someone slipped something into her cranberry juice or something? I'm not a big drinker...is there a common car drink in which you wouldn't taste vodka?

I realize I'm stretching, and I totally know about alcoholism, but something just feels wrong about it no matter how often I see NG ranting on it...

this puts a new spin on this case

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/08/30/new.york.crash/index.html?iref=24hours

[samanthajane13]

WOW!!

Thanks so much for finding that, Sara!!!

I still think that hubby is in denial...but the autopsy speaks for itself.

So...who spiked Diane's drink???

[SaraSidle]

WOW!!

Thanks so much for finding that, Sara!!!

I still think that hubby is in denial...but the autopsy speaks for itself.

So...who spiked Diane's drink???

that is the question Sam. How and why did she have so much alcohol in her system at once? I cannot imagine. I wonder about the prints on the bottle and if they could take any?

[samanthajane13]

"I wonder about the prints on the bottle and if they could take any?"

There's that, too.

And what about the TCH???

How the hell did that get into her??? A "contact high" from being around people smoking up that morning??

Maybe that explains why she didn't taste the vodka in her drink...but they must have locked her in a closet with the bong to get her THAT high!!!

[SaraSidle]

"I wonder about the prints on the bottle and if they could take any?"

There's that, too.

And what about the TCH???

How the hell did that get into her??? A "contact high" from being around people smoking up that morning??

Maybe that explains why she didn't taste the vodka in her drink...but they must have locked her in a closet with the bong to get her THAT high!!!

You know it is almost like she was set up. with both.
she has to have very little tolerance if her liver is in such good shape.:shrug:

IMO sara

[samanthajane13]

Yeah-tell me about it...

I hope they look REAL CLOSE at everyone who was there with her...especially hubby.

There's just something about his demeanor that I don't like.

Does she have any problems with people in the group??

Any jealousies, arguments, or enemies??

I'd be giving them ALL the 3rd degree...gimme my rolling pin, jumper-cables and a car battery.

THEY'LL TALK!!!

[SaraSidle]

Yeah-tell me about it...

I hope they look REAL CLOSE at everyone who was there with her...especially hubby.

There's just something about his demeanor that I don't like.

Does she have any problems with people in the group??

Any jealousies, arguments, or enemies??

I'd be giving them ALL the 3rd degree...gimme my rolling pin, jumper-cables and a car battery.

THEY'LL TALK!!!

I believe you . I have no family info. nor have I seen any. I will go look.
sara

[deacon]

I believe you . I have no family info. nor have I seen any. I will go look.
sara

All of the articles I have read stress "long term alcohol abuse." That does not mean that there was not short term abuse. Say a years of two. BTW, there could be no abuse at all, except this time. The THC would be almost impossible to fake. I think we have to face it, she made a terrible decision.

Another thought about hubby. If he knew she was prone to do these things and he knew she was impaired when she got into the vehicle he could share some of the blame legally.

[SaraSidle]

All of the articles I have read stress "long term alcohol abuse." That does not mean that there was not short term abuse. Say a years of two. BTW, there could be no abuse at all, except this time. The THC would be almost impossible to fake. I think we have to face it, she made a terrible decision.

Another thought about hubby. If he knew she was prone to do these things and he knew she was impaired when she got into the vehicle he could share some of the blame legally.

I am unable to agree with either comment. I do not know what the organs look like after a year or two of drinking and I do not know the law as far as husband's liability. IMO sara

[deacon]

I am unable to agree with either comment. I do not know what the organs look like after a year or two of drinking and I do not know the law as far as husband's liability. IMO sara

Well, alcohol abuse, like other abuses, does not show right away. It takes time. As far as liability, I am sure he was named on the insurance on the vehicle either as owner or part owner. He is her surviving widower so any lawsuits would be aimed at her insurance company with liability toward him if he knew she was impaired and did not try to stop her. Are there any surviving children? If so, child services may take a look at him as not giving proper care for his children if he knowingly allowed them to get into the car with her in that condition. This is a rapidly growing problem. More and more women are being arrested and charged with driving under the influence. Sad that she involved her children in this as well as the other people in the accident. I really doubt there is a problem with the results of the autopsy.

[BeastofBears]

Well, alcohol abuse, like other abuses, does not show right away. It takes time. As far as liability, I am sure he was named on the insurance on the vehicle either as owner or part owner. He is her surviving widower so any lawsuits would be aimed at her insurance company with liability toward him if he knew she was impaired and did not try to stop her. Are there any surviving children? If so, child services may take a look at him as not giving proper care for his children if he knowingly allowed them to get into the car with her in that condition. This is a rapidly growing problem. More and more women are being arrested and charged with driving under the influence. Sad that she involved her children in this as well as the other people in the accident. I really doubt there is a problem with the results of the autopsy.

There is one surviving child, a boy.

I honestly have to say this situation really smells like Denmark on a bad day. There are so many things that make my antennae go up, not the least of which was the call to the brother. IMO, if she was driving drunk with full knowledge, she would not have made that call. She would KNOW why she was sick and disoriented, and the last thing a drunk driver would want is for someone to know they were impaired. They spend most of their time covering it up, not calling to tell people...I cannot abide drunk driving, but the more I have heard about this, the more it just doesn't sound right. And this info just further entrenches my opinion...

They should look closely at anyone who had access to her food, drink, and medication.

[deacon]

There is one surviving child, a boy.

I honestly have to say this situation really smells like Denmark on a bad day. There are so many things that make my antennae go up, not the least of which was the call to the brother. IMO, if she was driving drunk with full knowledge, she would not have made that call. She would KNOW why she was sick and disoriented, and the last thing a drunk driver would want is for someone to know they were impaired. They spend most of their time covering it up, not calling to tell people...I cannot abide drunk driving, but the more I have heard about this, the more it just doesn't sound right. And this info just further entrenches my opinion...

They should look closely at anyone who had access to her food, drink, and medication.

One does not confuse vodka with anything else. It, like other liquor, has a particular taste. Also the THC is not something you get by mistake. It is done on purpose. Now the call could have been in confusion. People do get confused when they are that drunk.

[samanthajane13]

I agree, Sara, drunks and habitual drug users DO NOT call for help.

I agree with Deacon, too, on the liability and CPS issues.

I still think somebody spiked her.

[SaraSidle]

There is one surviving child, a boy.

I honestly have to say this situation really smells like Denmark on a bad day. There are so many things that make my antennae go up, not the least of which was the call to the brother. IMO, if she was driving drunk with full knowledge, she would not have made that call. She would KNOW why she was sick and disoriented, and the last thing a drunk driver would want is for someone to know they were impaired. They spend most of their time covering it up, not calling to tell people...I cannot abide drunk driving, but the more I have heard about this, the more it just doesn't sound right. And this info just further entrenches my opinion...

They should look closely at anyone who had access to her food, drink, and medication.


I thought the same thing about the phone call. And when her niece told her brother she was not feeling well it did not sound like she ever saw her aunt drinking. If Diane and her husband left at the same time why didn't she call him. If she could make a call at all.

Sam I could find nothing but there was something about Diane's brother and his family no longer wants contact with husbands family. IMO sara

[samanthajane13]

"They should look closely at anyone who had access to her food, drink, and medication."

Yup-what BoB said!!


"Sam I could find nothing but there was something about Diane's brother and his family no longer wants contact with husbands family. IMO sara"

Gee...can't imagine WHY NOT???

Maybe THEY know something...about hubby???

[SaraSidle]

"They should look closely at anyone who had access to her food, drink, and medication."

Yup-what BoB said!!


"Sam I could find nothing but there was something about Diane's brother and his family no longer wants contact with husbands family. IMO sara"

Gee...can't imagine WHY NOT???

Maybe THEY know something...about hubby???

Either hubby or simply grieving. hard to say. no sign of affairs either from what I read but that does not mean it did not happen. IMO sara

[deacon]

]"They should look closely at anyone who had access to her food, drink, and medication."[/B]Yup-what BoB said!!


"Sam I could find nothing but there was something about Diane's brother and his family no longer wants contact with husbands family. IMO sara"

Gee...can't imagine WHY NOT???

Maybe THEY know something...about hubby???

How would anyone know she would drive the wrong way? A set up or spiking, does not make sense to me in this case. There would be no way to tell she would do what she did. And why involve the children? Makes no sense to me.

[Marian Paroo]

And why involve the children? Makes no sense to me.

Going along with the thread that she wasn't a drunk and someone else caused her to lose control of her senses, a lot of times murderers don't care about taking out a number of extra innocent victims. Even children

[samanthajane13]

"How would anyone know she would drive the wrong way? A set up or spiking, does not make sense to me in this case. There would be no way to tell she would do what she did. And why involve the children? Makes no sense to me."


If someone were trying to injure/kill her and the kids, it wouldn't matter if she drive the wrong way-just that she crashed or rolled.

End for someone to want that, they'd have to be close to her...hubby, in-laws, close friends...

Maybe someone was trying to clear hubby's dance card??? Him or a lover???

[deacon]

"How would anyone know she would drive the wrong way? A set up or spiking, does not make sense to me in this case. There would be no way to tell she would do what she did. And why involve the children? Makes no sense to me."


If someone were trying to injure/kill her and the kids, it wouldn't matter if she drive the wrong way-just that she crashed or rolled.

End for someone to want that, they'd have to be close to her...hubby, in-laws, close friends...

Maybe someone was trying to clear hubby's dance card??? Him or a lover???

No one has answered the THC thing. One would know if they smoked pot. As for spiking, one would know if there were vodka in what they drank. People seem to have a problem accepting the fact that people of her nature will do these kind of things. It always seems people believe that it is someone trying to murder them while the evidence does not point any where near that direction.

[SaraSidle]

No one has answered the THC thing. One would know if they smoked pot. As for spiking, one would know if there were vodka in what they drank. People seem to have a problem accepting the fact that people of her nature will do these kind of things. It always seems people believe that it is someone trying to murder them while the evidence does not point any where near that direction.

Deacon I do not see someone trying to murder all the time. What I do see is an awful lot of alcohol and drugs in a woman's system who is not used to it.
It was a very short period of time and we cannot account for the whole time.
I try to think anything is possible. there is something not right here. IMO sara

[BeastofBears]

I don't see murder everywhere, I just am suspicious of this specific case. It doesn't add up.

Of course a woman could drive drunk and kill a bunch of people. Lots have. But I just don't think she would do it this specific way and the details back that opinion up. It doesn't ring true to me. Women do a lot of the same crimes that men do, but we do it differently. We women spend a lot of time keeping up appearances. She would NOT have made that call to the brother if she was drinking and driving, imo.

[SaraSidle]

I don't see murder everywhere, I just am suspicious of this specific case. It doesn't add up.

Of course a woman could drive drunk and kill a bunch of people. Lots have. But I just don't think she would do it this specific way and the details back that opinion up. It doesn't ring true to me. Women do a lot of the same crimes that men do, but we do it differently. We women spend a lot of time keeping up appearances. She would NOT have made that call to the brother if she was drinking and driving, imo.

That is another thing. when she called her brother it sounded like she was panicky and knew something was happening to her physically but not sure what it was. Like she had never had marijuana and vodka together before to that amount. Like a call someone may make when they are having a stroke. IMO sara

[deacon]

I don't see murder everywhere, I just am suspicious of this specific case. It doesn't add up.

Of course a woman could drive drunk and kill a bunch of people. Lots have. But I just don't think she would do it this specific way and the details back that opinion up. It doesn't ring true to me. Women do a lot of the same crimes that men do, but we do it differently. We women spend a lot of time keeping up appearances. She would NOT have made that call to the brother if she was drinking and driving, imo.

This used as a method of murder would not make sense either. People who murder do not use this type of method. It isn't sure enough. Too many things left to chance. With both alcohol and THC in her system the sickness could have happened. If she drank and smoked more than normal, this too could have made her sick. She may not have understood the sick feeling but I don't see this as any type of set up. Too many things left to chance for this to be an attempt to kill someone else.

[SaraSidle]

This used as a method of murder would not make sense either. People who murder do not use this type of method. It isn't sure enough. Too many things left to chance. With both alcohol and THC in her system the sickness could have happened. If she drank and smoked more than normal, this too could have made her sick. She may not have understood the sick feeling but I don't see this as any type of set up. Too many things left to chance for this to be an attempt to kill someone else.

Have you thought about the marijuana being treated?

[samanthajane13]

Wow!!

I hadn't even thought of that!!!

Although I don't know what smoking would do to whatever drug or toxin it may have been tainted with...I'm pretty sure it would come up on the tox screen in SOME WAY...even if it read as a metabolite of the original drug or toxin.

Maybe-JUST MAYBE-the police are withholding that type of info as they continue the investigation so they can trace the source for the marijuana and the toxin.

[deacon]

Have you thought about the marijuana being treated?

Treated with what? Vodka? The alcohol would be burned up when you smoked the marijuana.

[SaraSidle]

Wow!!

I hadn't even thought of that!!!

Although I don't know what smoking would do to whatever drug or toxin it may have been tainted with...I'm pretty sure it would come up on the tox screen in SOME WAY...even if it read as a metabolite of the original drug or toxin.

Maybe-JUST MAYBE-the police are withholding that type of info as they continue the investigation so they can trace the source for the marijuana and the toxin.


I do not know Samantha. It might not show up depending where it is grown. There is a big difference in Marijuana from grown in the U.S. For example if it is grown in Mexico("Alcpulco Gold",Columbia,Asia it is much more potent. There is a large difference. Just even in the parts of the plant itself are stronger for example buds without seeds is also very important.
This is a very good example if she was being set up. sara IMO

I hope this helps you out in your post Deacon.

[deacon]

I do not know Samantha. It might not show up depending where it is grown. There is a big difference in Marijuana from grown in the U.S. For example if it is grown in Mexico("Alcpulco Gold",Columbia,Asia it is much more potent. There is a large difference. Just even in the parts of the plant itself are stronger for example buds without seeds is also very important.
This is a very good example if she was being set up. sara IMO

I hope this helps you out in your post Deacon.

If this were the case where did the BAC come from? Where did the level in her stomach come from? Again, if someone was trying to set her up to die, they would have used a method where they would be sure she died not get her drunk. Drunks make it home by luck every day.

I just see no evidenc that she was anything but a drunk, doped up driver who got on the road going the wrong way. BTW, both of those are depressants. Two of those do not go well together.

[samanthajane13]

Just posted this in the last 24 hours.

Even though it's about cocaine, it still applies, as it pertains to chemicals being added to coke to intensify the high.


AP IMPACT: Tainted cocaine kills 3, sickens dozens

http://www.boards.crimelibrary.com/showthread.php?t=294506


Also, as far back as the 70's different chemicals were added to pot to intensify the high.

Phencyclidine (sp?)-Angel's Dust-an animal tranquilizer, Ketamine-Special K-another animal tranquilizer, even cocaine and other drugs such as hashish were added.

I was there...in the 70's.

I knew what the other kids were doing.

[samanthajane13]

"There is a big difference in Marijuana from grown in the U.S. For example if it is grown in Mexico("Alcpulco Gold",Columbia,Asia it is much more potent."

VERY TRUE, but if meds, toxins or chemicals were added. they would more than likely show up in the blood tox screen...or a metabolite of the added toxin.

I'm using "toxin" to differentiate from the "drugs" marijuana or THC.

There would be another "line" on the read-out on the gas chromatograph/mass spectrometry for each chemical present in the blood...one for TCH chemicals, one for each of chemicals in the "toxin"...and one for any other chemicals added or present, like nicotine, etc.

Each would be a different color and show the various levels.

Even if it didn't "tell" what the "toxin" was-say if it were an unknown designer drug-it would still show it's chemical composition, from which they could check it against other KNOWN toxins, and find out what it was derived from.

[samanthajane13]

"Treated with what? Vodka? The alcohol would be burned up when you smoked the marijuana."

Okay-yes-the ALCOHOL in the vodka would burn off. More precisely, it would evaporate before the pot burns. Alcohol has a very low evaporation rate. Like wine flavored cigars-they soak them and let them dry, then package them. There is no ALCOHOL left, just the flavor.

Or like making Cherries Jubilee. You douse the cherries with liquor, bit it evaporates, leaving the flavor.

But the chemicals from the vodka would be present in the blood from smoking the pot.

Accelerants still leave behind chemical signatures after they burn off-whether in food, pot, or the walls and floor of a burned room.

[deacon]

"Treated with what? Vodka? The alcohol would be burned up when you smoked the marijuana."

Okay-yes-the ALCOHOL in the vodka would burn off. More precisely, it would evaporate before the pot burns. Alcohol has a very low evaporation rate. Like wine flavored cigars-they soak them and let them dry, then package them. There is no ALCOHOL left, just the flavor.

Or like making Cherries Jubilee. You douse the cherries with liquor, bit it evaporates, leaving the flavor.

But the chemicals from the vodka would be present in the blood from smoking the pot.

Accelerants still leave behind chemical signatures after they burn off-whether in food, pot, or the walls and floor of a burned room.

She had a high, much too high, BAC. Blood Alcohol Content. That means it was ingested, not smoked. That is the only chemical that causes the BAC to be high. Take away the drunk, she was still driving impaired. But she was drunk. The tests show vodka in her stomach. How did that get there? Through smoking?

[samanthajane13]

Okay, Deacon.

Maybe she was funneled full of vodka, clam-baked in a closet full of pot smoke and shoved into the van with the vodka bottle thrown into the back.

However it happened, she was a party novice.

And it killed her and a lot of other innocent people.

I'm waiting for the rest of the story. I'm sure it will be forthcoming at some point.

[deacon]

Okay, Deacon.

Maybe she was funneled full of vodka, clam-baked in a closet full of pot smoke and shoved into the van with the vodka bottle thrown into the back.

However it happened, she was a party novice.

And it killed her and a lot of other innocent people.

I'm waiting for the rest of the story. I'm sure it will be forthcoming at some point.

I doubt it will go any further. They seem to have the answers.

Food for thought:

Would people feel any differently if it would have been the dad who got in the minivan with that BAC and THC in his system and did the same thing? Just food for thought. I wouldn't view it any differently.

[SaraSidle]

I doubt it will go any further. They seem to have the answers.

Food for thought:

Would people feel any differently if it would have been the dad who got in the minivan with that BAC and THC in his system and did the same thing? Just food for thought. I wouldn't view it any differently.

Well they may not have all the answers. no one is perfect. It is also easier in my opinion for the most part for a man to overpower a woman physically.
I still wonder if the son released from the hospital has anything to add. sara

[BeastofBears]

I doubt it will go any further. They seem to have the answers.

Food for thought:

Would people feel any differently if it would have been the dad who got in the minivan with that BAC and THC in his system and did the same thing? Just food for thought. I wouldn't view it any differently.

That's actually an interesting point, because I think that the females react differently to this because, imo, this is not how a woman would do this. There is gender differentiation in my mind, not because I'm anti-man or anything, but I just think women do things differently, and if a woman was going to get wasted and drive, it wouldn't be done this way. There are little things that women do or don't do that can be clues. Look at Phil Spector's victim: as soon as I saw the crime scene photo with her purse over her shoulder, I knew she was leaving and not killing herself. That's what it is for me with this, it doesn't add up with female behavior in the details.

imo. (and I am no misanthropist, I like guys!)

[BeastofBears]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,545501,00.html?test=latestnews

They're exhuming her for more autopsy work. The husband is very insistent that driving drunk was not possible. See also Larry King transcripts from 9/1/09 as this was the topic.

[deacon]

That's actually an interesting point, because I think that the females react differently to this because, imo, this is not how a woman would do this. There is gender differentiation in my mind, not because I'm anti-man or anything, but I just think women do things differently, and if a woman was going to get wasted and drive, it wouldn't be done this way. There are little things that women do or don't do that can be clues. Look at Phil Spector's victim: as soon as I saw the crime scene photo with her purse over her shoulder, I knew she was leaving and not killing herself. That's what it is for me with this, it doesn't add up with female behavior in the details.

imo. (and I am no misanthropist, I like guys!)

Statistics say this is becoming more and more of a problem. Women are doing this more and more. For centries women have been considered the nurturers. This is changing. Not in all women but in some. For some reason they do not do what is an expected behavior but the opposite. I think that is the case here. Conventional thought does not seem to explain this happening. In the spector case the purse was surely a sign that she was leaving or trying to leave. However, given who the murderer was, it wasn't the only thing that pointed to murder. That man should have been off of the street years ago. The first time he assaulted a woman.

Another popular belief amoung some is that giving birth to a child equates to sainthood. That a mother would never hurt her child. Well, that has changed. There are so many examples of this it is not funny.

I do not think she set out to do this. She got drunk/high and thought she could handle it. Probably because she had done it before. Would any of you expect her husband and family to say anything but she didn't drink?

[Marian Paroo]

Another popular belief amoung some is that giving birth to a child equates to sainthood. That a mother would never hurt her child. Well, that has changed. There are so many examples of this it is not funny.




This is nothing new.

Does the name "Medea" ring a bell?

Not to mention all those British, Scottish and Appalacian ballads about the "Cruel Mother."

[BeastofBears]

Statistics say this is becoming more and more of a problem. Women are doing this more and more. For centries women have been considered the nurturers. This is changing. Not in all women but in some. For some reason they do not do what is an expected behavior but the opposite. I think that is the case here. Conventional thought does not seem to explain this happening. In the spector case the purse was surely a sign that she was leaving or trying to leave. However, given who the murderer was, it wasn't the only thing that pointed to murder. That man should have been off of the street years ago. The first time he assaulted a woman.

Another popular belief amoung some is that giving birth to a child equates to sainthood. That a mother would never hurt her child. Well, that has changed. There are so many examples of this it is not funny.

I do not think she set out to do this. She got drunk/high and thought she could handle it. Probably because she had done it before. Would any of you expect her husband and family to say anything but she didn't drink?

Her body says she didn't drink habitually. Look, I am not saying a mother wouldn't do this. And you know well from my posts elsewhere I do not associate maternity with sainthood.

But I do not believe this woman would call her brother to tell him she was sick when she knew darn well she was drinking. I do not believe she would meander about, missing for 4 hours, for no known reason. I do not believe the children would not have told anyone what was going on if it was clear-they made at least one call. I do not believe she would have left her phone miles away from the scene of the crash. I do not believe she would get this hammered and wasted and drive with no history of it or visible sign of abuse in her body. And when was she supposed to have ingested the pot? while driving? So where is it?

Do mothers drink drive and kill their kids. Of course! But the devil is in the details here. I do not believe the simple answer is the right one (though it usually is), and I am glad this is being looked at further.

[SaraSidle]

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2009/09/02/lkl.wrong.way.cnn

Here is the show from last night. I watched it last night and it was quite interesting. IMO sara

[deacon]

Her body says she didn't drink habitually. Look, I am not saying a mother wouldn't do this. And you know well from my posts elsewhere I do not associate maternity with sainthood.

But I do not believe this woman would call her brother to tell him she was sick when she knew darn well she was drinking. I do not believe she would meander about, missing for 4 hours, for no known reason. I do not believe the children would not have told anyone what was going on if it was clear-they made at least one call. I do not believe she would have left her phone miles away from the scene of the crash. I do not believe she would get this hammered and wasted and drive with no history of it or visible sign of abuse in her body. And when was she supposed to have ingested the pot? while driving? So where is it?

Do mothers drink drive and kill their kids. Of course! But the devil is in the details here. I do not believe the simple answer is the right one (though it usually is), and I am glad this is being looked at further.

You are correct, normally it is the correct one. We will see.

[deacon]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/09/01/new.york.wrong.way.driver/index.html

Now the lawyer is blaming it on the fire. Funny how he does not say where the THC came from.

[BeastofBears]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/09/01/new.york.wrong.way.driver/index.html

Now the lawyer is blaming it on the fire. Funny how he does not say where the THC came from.

Well, turns out under the right conditions it can convert: http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5907931/INTERPRETATION-OF-MEASURED-ALCOHOL-LEVELS-IN-FATAL-AVIATION-ACCIDENTS

[old_soul]

I hadn't had time recently to go over posts and threads I missed while I wasn't online...till today. So glad to have found SJ's thread on this.......from the moment I heard, which was on our way home from vacation, about an hour after it happened, to this moment this case has been heavy on my mind.

I live 15 minutes from the accident site. I pass by it often, and did so the next day. If I tell you, to this day, all one needs to see is the marks in the road itself, and the spot where her van wound up in flames..it tells the story without one even knowing the story. I wanted to stop and leave flowers, but since it's really not safe, because where the van was, it's next to the left lane, and not an easy on and off...so I have not done so...:(

My husband occasionally dealt with the father and son in the other vehicle (with their friend) (they were in the auto business)...The town she left from in upstate is where my brother lives..they (victims) were driving to my town for Sunday dinner ....talk about coincidences............

I have always felt something is remiss here, and since the tox came back, I still feel something is not right. I am a vodka drinker, and even I can't chug down 10 oz of the stuff like they are saying she did. That bottle was packed from vacation....did she take it out and pour it into her mcdonalds cup as she was driving? The window of time from when she was having problems (then, to the accident, is 48 minutes) ~ 48 minutes to drink all that vodka. Before that she had a lengthly conversation with her SIL about future plans, and sounded totally normal. When she left she was normal. When did she get out and smoke a joint? Where?[/

I have no answers, but I don't think it's all as cut and dry as it may sound. I believe the key to many answers could be the 5 year old son. Kids at that age can be very resourceful, if he remembers.

Does anyone know if he has been questioned? At All?

This is truly heartbreaking, and the husband and SIL/Best friend have a reason for not believing she would even think of doing this....FONT]:rose::rose::rose::rose::rose::rose::rose::rose:

[old_soul]

Her body says she didn't drink habitually. Look, I am not saying a mother wouldn't do this. And you know well from my posts elsewhere I do not associate maternity with sainthood.

But I do not believe this woman would call her brother to tell him she was sick when she knew darn well she was drinking. I do not believe she would meander about, missing for 4 hours, for no known reason. I do not believe the children would not have told anyone what was going on if it was clear-they made at least one call. I do not believe she would have left her phone miles away from the scene of the crash. I do not believe she would get this hammered and wasted and drive with no history of it or visible sign of abuse in her body. And when was she supposed to have ingested the pot? while driving? So where is it?

Do mothers drink drive and kill their kids. Of course! But the devil is in the details here. I do not believe the simple answer is the right one (though it usually is), and I am glad this is being looked at further.

Hey there, so glad you're on here, your post sounds like me, apparently we are thinking the same thing! Another thing is the exit ramp that she drove on to..it wasn't nightime, where one Can get confused...at that point from what I understood, the oldest niece was actually helping her drive by guiding her..hey , someone who is pie-eyed could do that, though they may be hitting the curbs and stuff. She actually couldn't see from what she was saying to her brother..his daughter told him the same thing...

[old_soul]

Treated with what? Vodka? The alcohol would be burned up when you smoked the marijuana.

From many sources that I have spoken to personally, much of the pot smoked by younger kids nowdays is treated. With exactly what, I do not know. What I do know is that it produces a hallucination type high as opposed to a good ol' hippie joint buzz. A few of those I spoke with admit that they didn't know it was treated and, well, freaked the he** out and even thought of going to the Emergency room, though they ultimately didn't.

Talk about a high! :no:

[deacon]

Well, turns out under the right conditions it can convert: http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5907931/INTERPRETATION-OF-MEASURED-ALCOHOL-LEVELS-IN-FATAL-AVIATION-ACCIDENTS

How about the vodka in the stomach?

[deacon]

Well, turns out under the right conditions it can convert: http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5907931/INTERPRETATION-OF-MEASURED-ALCOHOL-LEVELS-IN-FATAL-AVIATION-ACCIDENTS


The time frames they are talking about in that paper are the body sitting out in the elements unprotected for periods of 24 hours or more. The article itself is about aviation deaths as in crashes and the heat generated by possible fire which would be much greater in an airplane crash than an automobile crash. I doubt very seriously that her body was exposed to high temps or the elements for a period of 24 hours or greater.

[SaraSidle]

I hadn't had time recently to go over posts and threads I missed while I wasn't online...till today. So glad to have found SJ's thread on this.......from the moment I heard, which was on our way home from vacation, about an hour after it happened, to this moment this case has been heavy on my mind.

I live 15 minutes from the accident site. I pass by it often, and did so the next day. If I tell you, to this day, all one needs to see is the marks in the road itself, and the spot where her van wound up in flames..it tells the story without one even knowing the story. I wanted to stop and leave flowers, but since it's really not safe, because where the van was, it's next to the left lane, and not an easy on and off...so I have not done so...:(

My husband occasionally dealt with the father and son in the other vehicle (with their friend) (they were in the auto business)...The town she left from in upstate is where my brother lives..they (victims) were driving to my town for Sunday dinner ....talk about coincidences............

I have always felt something is remiss here, and since the tox came back, I still feel something is not right. I am a vodka drinker, and even I can't chug down 10 oz of the stuff like they are saying she did. That bottle was packed from vacation....did she take it out and pour it into her mcdonalds cup as she was driving? The window of time from when she was having problems (then, to the accident, is 48 minutes) ~ 48 minutes to drink all that vodka. Before that she had a lengthly conversation with her SIL about future plans, and sounded totally normal. When she left she was normal. When did she get out and smoke a joint? Where?[/

I have no answers, but I don't think it's all as cut and dry as it may sound. I believe the key to many answers could be the 5 year old son. Kids at that age can be very resourceful, if he remembers.

Does anyone know if he has been questioned? At All?

This is truly heartbreaking, and the husband and SIL/Best friend have a reason for not believing she would even think of doing this....FONT]:rose::rose::rose::rose::rose::rose::rose::rose:

Then add on the additional 6 shots still in her stomach not digested yet. IMO

[BeastofBears]

How about the vodka in the stomach?


They said alcohol, but I don't remember if it was identified as vodka? But this article explained that alcohol in the stomach spreads quickly because of the water content outside. If the body was burnt from the outside in, reducing the amount of water outside the stomach, could the membrane be crossed the other way? That's just general theorizing, as I do not make a case the alcohol wasn't consumed; my opinion, based on current evidence released, is she did not know it. Who knows, its unlikely, but maybe more answers will come from a second autopsy.

moo

[BeastofBears]

The time frames they are talking about in that paper are the body sitting out in the elements unprotected for periods of 24 hours or more. The article itself is about aviation deaths as in crashes and the heat generated by possible fire which would be much greater in an airplane crash than an automobile crash. I doubt very seriously that her body was exposed to high temps or the elements for a period of 24 hours or greater.

Yes, but if she already had an active bacterial infection (the abcess and whatever was going on on her leg), then the conversion of sugars to alcohol could happen faster. As a matter of fact, if she had a serious enough infection, putrefication of that flesh could have begun before death. And if she did have high blood sugar? All in theory.

But that's getting Dr. House weird. I just posted it to say the lawyer didn't pull this completely out of thin air (no pun intended)

[old_soul]

Uh Huh.


Just trying to understand it all. I mean, the alcohol content was so high, the pot supposedly smoked 15 minutes before the crash :confused:, otherwise, it might all sound believable. But....she left straight, and for the first 1/3 - 1/2 of the ride she spoke on the phone and sounded normal and there were no problems....How could so much change, so soon?

Her niece didn't say "daddy, aunt Diane went out and smoked a 'cigarette' while we waited in the car, Aunt Diane doesn't smoke, but she smells funny, there's a bottle of alcohol and aunt Diane is pouring it in her cup ~ nothing like that was said. She was 9...She would have mentioned something.

A lot of stuff just floating around with lots of questionmarks.......I hope the little 5 year old can tell them something.

[One2Snoop]

Heard on the news tonight they want the husband to be drug tested since he's so adamant his wife is innocent of drug and alcohol use. :eek:

Has anyone ever questioned whether a relative of one of the deceased might work in the lab that performed the tests? :shrug: If not, I certainly hope they check this avenue out.

[BeastofBears]

Heard on the news tonight they want the husband to be drug tested since he's so adamant his wife is innocent of drug and alcohol use. :eek:

Has anyone ever questioned whether a relative of one of the deceased might work in the lab that performed the tests? :shrug: If not, I certainly hope they check this avenue out.

Good grief! Now the finger of accusation can point at someone for defending their spouse?! :eek:

[SaraSidle]

Good grief! Now the finger of accusation can point at someone for defending their spouse?! :eek:

I know I saw it mentioned somewhere they were going to test his hair??? I know THC can stay in your system for 30 days and you can find out for how long by checking the hair.sara

[samanthajane13]

Report: Taconic mom smoked pot regularly and drank days before crash
By KIERAN CROWLEY
Last Updated: 5:09 PM, November 6, 2009
Posted: 5:09 PM, November 6, 2009

Wrong-way driver mom Diane Schuler smoked pot on a regular basis and was drinking the weekend before the fiery crash that killed eight, according to a new report released today.

Her husband had claimed she did not booze it up and was the perfect mom.

The fact that Schuler used marijuana on a daily basis came to light today in a statement by her sister-in-law Joan Schuler that she made to New York State Police.

The statement was released to the victims' families by Westchester DA Janet DiFiore,. sources said.

Diane Schuler's husband, Danny Schuler, admitted to investigators that he and his wife drank together at an upstate campsite two nights before the terrible crash -- but denied they were drinking the night before or on that day, sources said.

Schuler admitted that on July 24 -- two days before the crash -- he had a couple of beers and his wife had a few daiquiris, despite Schuler's news conference soon after crash when he claimed, "She did not drink. She is not an alcoholic."

"Daniel Schuler admitted drinking with Diane Schuler that weekend," said an outraged Michael *******i, Jr. following a meeting in White Plains with authorities today.

"It's totally the opposite of what [Danny] Schuler said at a press conference in August," added *******i, whose dad Michael Sr., and brother Guy died in the crash. "It's disgusting. It was all lies."

Schuler, her daughter, Erin, 2, and her three nieces died in the head-on crash after she drove for nearly two miles in the wrong direction July 26 along the Westchester highway. Only Schuler's son, Bryan, 5, survived.

According to a toxicology report after the accident, Schuler was drunk and high on marijuana at the time.


http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/report_taconic_crash_smoked_pot_B7PDtHfFJNjUdipUJV 166H#ixzz0WO3A53IM

[samanthajane13]

Taconic ma twice car sick
New crash revelation
By KIERAN CROWLEY
Last Updated: 11:48 AM, November 9, 2009
Posted: 4:58 AM, November 9, 2009

Wrong-way driver Diane Schuler -- whose autopsy showed 6 grams of undigested booze in her stomach -- was seen vomiting by the side of the road twice before her deadly head-on crash, police reports obtained by The Post showed.

Schuler stopped her red minivan loaded with kids on Route 17 at approximately 11:45 a.m. on July 26, the police report says.

"[The witnesses] noticed an adult female outside of the vehicle with brown hair, wearing blue, knee-length shorts, bent over with her hands on her knees, as if throwing up," the report stated.

Afterward, the red van was seen "zigzagging in and out of traffic."

Just north of the Ramapo rest stop, the witnesses "saw this same van pulled over" and the female "again with her hands on her knees."

At 1:35 p.m. -- driving the wrong way down the Taconic Parkway in Westchester -- Schuler rammed her minivan into a Chevy Trailblazer.

Schuler, her daughter, Erin, 2, and her three nieces -- Emma Hance, 8, Alyson Hance, 7, and Katie Hance, 5 -- died in the crash. Killed in the Trailblazer were Michael *******i, 81, his son Guy *******i, 49, and Daniel Longo, 74.

An autopsy showed Schuler had a blood-alcohol level of 0.19. There also was evidence of a high level of THC in her blood, indicating she had smoked marijuana.

Mike *******i Jr., whose father, brother and family friend died in the crash, called the latest revelations "outrageous."

"She threw up twice and kept drinking and smoking pot," he alleged.

Irving Anolik, spokesman for the *******i family, said the findings "would indicate she had a lot more alcohol than we know about."

A pathologist with forensic expertise said 6 grams -- about a half a drink of 40-proof liquor -- would not necessarily mean Schuler kept drinking after she vomited. The source said that it could have been reabsorbed alcohol after the time of death or that Schuler simply did not empty the entire contents of her stomach.


http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/taconic_ma_twice_car_sick_BAhRyIYETX2kVHN1IDeseL

[samanthajane13]

Updated: Victims' family wants DA to investigate Schuler case
By Aman Ali
November 1, 2009

YONKERS - The family members of some of the victims in July's fatal wrong-way crash on the Taconic State Parkway said today a grand jury should look into what role the husband of the drunk driver played in the crash.

Today the family of Michael and Guy *******i called on Westchester County District Attorney Janet DiFiore to convene a grand jury to look into the crash caused by Diane Schuler. DiFiore’s office has repeatedly said that criminal charges died with the Long Island mom that was drunk and high before she killed herself, three other adults and four children.

“The position of the office is quite clear,” DA spokesman Lucian Chalfen said.  “It’s been re-iterated a number of times and nothing has changed. There’s nothing for me to say today that hasn’t been said already.”

Irving Anolik, the *******i family’s attorney, said DiFiore closed the case “prematurely.”Anolik said the family wanted to speak out today based on public statements DiFiore made last week. In a televised debate against candidates challenging her for her position this election season, DiFiore said “I don’t believe that the family members (*******is) are requesting that a grand jury presentation be open.”

Multiple members of the *******i family said today they have always expressed interest in convening a grand jury. Anolik emphasized that the DA’s office has been “courteous” and receptive to his clients, but if DiFiore chooses not to convene a grand jury in the case, the *******is will rally the state attorney general and the governor to look into the matter.

The *******is criticism of DiFiore came less than two days before elections. Michael *******i Jr., son of Michael *******i, emphasized his family does not want to be involved in the race for district attorney and are not making any endorsements. He added neither candidate Dan Schorr or Tony Castro, or the two’s campaign representatives, have reached out to the family.

The Westchester Medical Examiner’s Office found that Diane Schuler was drunk and high before she killed herself, three other adults and four children. The *******is want a grand jury to investigate her husband Daniel Schuler’s role in the case.
Roseann Guzzo, daughter of Michael *******i, said she believes Daniel Schuler is “criminally negligent,”wondering if there was anything Daniel knew about his wife that could have prevented the crash.

“I believe there are a lot of unanswered questions in this case,” said Roseann Guzzo, daughter of Michael *******i. “My family is pursuing this so we can stop this from happening again. Enough is enough, children should not be sent into a car with drunk drivers.”

http://www.lohud.com/article/20091101/NEWS02/911010402/1018/news02/Updated--Victims--family-wants-DA-to-investigate-Schuler-case

[samanthajane13]

Witnesses Saw Wrong-Way Driver Get Ill

(Nov. 9) -- Witnesses saw Diane Schuler pull to the side of the road and get sick before she drove the wrong way down a New York freeway July 26 and caused a deadly car crash, according to police reports obtained by the New York Post.

Schuler first pulled over her minivan at 11:45 a.m. on the day of the crash, the police reports say. Witnesses "noticed an adult female outside of the vehicle with brown hair, wearing blue, knee-length shorts, bent over with her hands on her knees, as if throwing up," the records say.

She was seen stopping again a short time later just north of a rest stop, the Post reported. At 1:35 p.m., she crashed her vehicle into an SUV carrying three men on the Taconic State Parkway, killing them as well as herself, her 2-year-old daughter and her three young nieces.

Autopsy results released in August showed Schuler was driving drunk and had smoked marijuana before the crash.

Late last week, The Associated Press reported that Schuler's relatives told police she used pot as a way of coping with stress.

Schuler's husband told police she "smoked marijuana once in a while to relieve the stress of work and the kids," a police report said.

Schuler's sister-in-law told police she "didn't believe in medicine and used marijuana to relax," usually smoking after her children went to bed, according to the report.

Relatives of the crash victims got the report Friday during a meeting with police and prosecutors, then made it available to reporters.


http://news.aol.com/article/witnesses-saw-wrong-way-driver-diane/758941?icid=main|htmlws-main-n|dl1|link3|http%3A%2F%2Fnews.aol.com%2Farticle%2F witnesses-saw-wrong-way-driver-diane%2F758941

[SaraSidle]

Witnesses Saw Wrong-Way Driver Get Ill

(Nov. 9) -- Witnesses saw Diane Schuler pull to the side of the road and get sick before she drove the wrong way down a New York freeway July 26 and caused a deadly car crash, according to police reports obtained by the New York Post.

Schuler first pulled over her minivan at 11:45 a.m. on the day of the crash, the police reports say. Witnesses "noticed an adult female outside of the vehicle with brown hair, wearing blue, knee-length shorts, bent over with her hands on her knees, as if throwing up," the records say.

She was seen stopping again a short time later just north of a rest stop, the Post reported. At 1:35 p.m., she crashed her vehicle into an SUV carrying three men on the Taconic State Parkway, killing them as well as herself, her 2-year-old daughter and her three young nieces.

Autopsy results released in August showed Schuler was driving drunk and had smoked marijuana before the crash.

Late last week, The Associated Press reported that Schuler's relatives told police she used pot as a way of coping with stress.

Schuler's husband told police she "smoked marijuana once in a while to relieve the stress of work and the kids," a police report said.

Schuler's sister-in-law told police she "didn't believe in medicine and used marijuana to relax," usually smoking after her children went to bed, according to the report.

Relatives of the crash victims got the report Friday during a meeting with police and prosecutors, then made it available to reporters.


http://news.aol.com/article/witnesses-saw-wrong-way-driver-diane/758941?icid=main|htmlws-main-n|dl1|link3|http%3A%2F%2Fnews.aol.com%2Farticle%2F witnesses-saw-wrong-way-driver-diane%2F758941

I just cannot keep up with you. I was going to post these. Find it more curious now that she was sick to her stomach and they still found so much alcohol in her stomach. still sounds wrong. IMO

[deacon]

I just cannot keep up with you. I was going to post these. Find it more curious now that she was sick to her stomach and they still found so much alcohol in her stomach. still sounds wrong. IMO

The article explains it. When you are sick and throw up, you do not completely void your stomach unless you do it many times. Obviously, there was quite a bit more in there to start with.

This is the first of two cases that are simular.

[SaraSidle]

The article explains it. When you are sick and throw up, you do not completely void your stomach unless you do it many times. Obviously, there was quite a bit more in there to start with.

This is the first of two cases that are simular.

Apparently you are getting my point. with all the alcohol found on her body and the fact that she also voided some alcohol makes me more suspicious.

[deacon]

Apparently you are getting my point. with all the alcohol found on her body and the fact that she also voided some alcohol makes me more suspicious.

Why would you be suspicious? She was known to be an, apparently, heavy drinker and also an abuser of an illegal drug. :shrug:

[SaraSidle]

Why would you be suspicious? She was known to be an, apparently, heavy drinker and also an abuser of an illegal drug. :shrug:
I feel that my posts above clearly state my opinion Deacon.

[One2Snoop]

Why would she be drinking so much, so early in the morning? :confused: That's what I don't get.

Schuler first pulled over her minivan at 11:45 a.m. on the day of the crash,

[samanthajane13]

Sara-

I think she had been drinking very heavily the night before and that morning, and that's why she still had such a high blood alcohol level.

She was saturated. Probably verging on alcohol poisoning.

[deacon]

Why would she be drinking so much, so early in the morning? :confused: That's what I don't get.



Why would she be smoking dope every day? Life's unanswered questions. The reason really does not matter. She did it. Remember her husband saying she did not drink? Sorta blows that out of the water.

[One2Snoop]

Why would she be smoking dope every day? Life's unanswered questions. The reason really does not matter. She did it. Remember her husband saying she did not drink? Sorta blows that out of the water.

I guess I just don't understand how parents can do that to their kids. Heck if I had one glass of wine (when my kids were younger) I'd tell them, "no I can't drive you. you'll have to find another way or stay home" Maybe I'm the exception and was overly cautious but there was no way in hell I wanted to be stopped and get a DUI. Heck, I have balance problems as it is, due to inner ear stuff, adding a drink or 2 on top of that I'd surely fail the balancing act.

[deacon]

I guess I just don't understand how parents can do that to their kids. Heck if I had one glass of wine (when my kids were younger) I'd tell them, "no I can't drive you. you'll have to find another way or stay home" Maybe I'm the exception and was overly cautious but there was no way in hell I wanted to be stopped and get a DUI. Heck, I have balance problems as it is, due to inner ear stuff, adding a drink or 2 on top of that I'd surely fail the balancing act.

But you care about your children more than the drinking. You know? Not all parents are like that. They may be biological parents but not real parents.

That was about as clear as mud. When you really care about your children you would do nothing to put them in harms way, no matter what. better?

[One2Snoop]

But you care about your children more than the drinking. You know? Not all parents are like that. They may be biological parents but not real parents.

That was about as clear as mud. When you really care about your children you would do nothing to put them in harms way, no matter what. better?

Got it. :rose:

[SaraSidle]

I still think it was too much alcohol in to little time. if she was saturated enough to not seem hungover than her organs would show longterm alcohol abuse but they did not. Her organs were in fine shape. And I do not think she did this to herself. IMO

[deacon]

I still think it was too much alcohol in to little time. if she was saturated enough to not seem hungover than her organs would show longterm alcohol abuse but they did not. Her organs were in fine shape. And I do not think she did this to herself. IMO

He organs would only show long term alcohol abuse if it would have happened over years. No one said she was an alcholoic. Simply she was drinking on that day/weekend and caused a crash that killed a bunch of people. Add to that she used illegal drugs. Not exactly a poster for the mother of the year award.

There is a really big difference between long term abuse and short term abuse. Long and short term is measured in years, not a day, a week, or even several years. It doesn't happen overnight.

[samanthajane13]

"I still think it was too much alcohol in to little time. if she was saturated enough to not seem hungover than her organs would show longterm alcohol abuse but they did not. Her organs were in fine shape. And I do not think she did this to herself."

It's kind of like the college kids.

They get absolutely hammered..binge drinking...hair-of-the-dog in the morning to make the hang-over go away...alcohol poisoning...but the liver, etc. doesn't show a thing because they haven't been drinking heavily for 10 or 20 years.

Just bits and spurts now and then.

Like Sara said-too much alcohol in too little time.

[Marian Paroo]

Why would she be drinking so much, so early in the morning? :confused: That's what I don't get.



I don't think addicts look at the clock alot.

And I mean all addicts, regardless of the substance.

By the way, I've been reading two weeks of mail and stuff, did NYS just pass a law to compound charges for drunk driving with kiddies in the vehicle?

[deacon]

I don't think addicts look at the clock alot.

And I mean all addicts, regardless of the substance.

By the way, I've been reading two weeks of mail and stuff, did NYS just pass a law to compound charges for drunk driving with kiddies in the vehicle?

Yes they did

[DrBill100]

I have followed this tragic event since occurrence. I just happened on this site today.

Wondering if anyone has read the police reports issued last week and/or reviewed the autopsy report from August.

[old_soul]

Death driver Diane Schuler was sober in McDonald's before crash, says family investigator
By Matthew Lysiak and Corky Siemaszko
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITERS

Thursday, November 19th 2009, 6:52 PM

Surveillance video of the gas station shows Diane Schuler driving off after pumping gas
Sabo/NewsThe tangled wreckage of Schuler's minivan after the horrific three-car head-on collision on the Taconic State Parkway. Related NewsArticlesFather whose girl died in tragic DWI want tougher lawsMom was legally drunk in crash that killed 11-year-old girl, say copsSister-in-law claims Taconic driver Diane Schuler smoked pot everyday5-year-old sole survivor of Taconic Parkway crash is home from hospitalTwo girls killed in horrific van collisionPresenting the Chicken Selects defense.

That's the strategy the legal team for Taconic Parkway death driver Diane Schuler came up with Thursday to counter an expected lawsuit from relatives of the seven people she killed while driving the wrong way down the Parkway in July.

The investigator for Schuler's husband argued that she wasn't on a morning-long bender before the tragic accident.

Tom Ruskin's evidence? Shortly before the wreck that also claimed Schuler's life, she put in a complicated order at a McDonald's that included Chicken Selects, an item not normally served at breakfast.

Ruskin said Schuler ordered the lunch item for her son, Bryan, and had to convince the cashier to put in the special request.

"Diane Schuler was very engaging," said Ruskin, an investigator for CMP Group. "She was so engaging she was able to convince the McDonald's employees to make Bryan Schuler Chicken Selects at 9:40 in the morning."

Ruskin added that "it wasn't a short conversation."

"She talked to the employees at length and they say that there was absolutely nothing wrong with her," he said.

To further buttress their claim that Schuler was stone-cold sober at the time of the tragic crash, Ruskin also released video footage of the woman pumping gas at a Sunoco station in Liberty, N.Y., and strolling into the store.

"The tape shows Diane Schuler was in full control and absolutely normal," Ruskin said. "She isn't staggering. These are not the images of a drunk or high woman."

Ruskin said Schuler gassed up her van after stopping at the nearby McDonald's.

The lawyer for Michael *******i, 81, and his son, Guy, 49, who were killed when Schuler hit them head-on July 26, said Ruskin and family attorney Dominic Barbara are grasping at straws.

"I'm not buying the Chicken Selects defense," said attorney Brian Sichol. "It's just another in a long list of ridiculous excuses thrown out by the Schulers."

Sichol said the footage from the Sunoco "shows nothing except the Schulers' desperation."

"Just because Diane Schuler is not passed out on the floor of McDonald's or the gas station does not prove that she wasn't drunk three hours later," he said. "We don't need all these silly theories. We have science. Science tells us that Diane Schuler was drunk and high" at 1:35 p.m., the time of the crash.

*******i family friend Daniel Longo, 74, also died in the wreck. Schuler, 36, her 2-year-old daughter, Erin, and her three young nieces, were also killed. Her 5-year-old son, Bryan, was the sole survivor.

The Long Island mom had been camping upstate in Sullivan County with the kids and her husband, Daniel, and was driving home when she crashed. Daniel Schuler was driving another vehicle.

:rose:

[One2Snoop]

I have followed this tragic event since occurrence. I just happened on this site today.

Wondering if anyone has read the police reports issued last week and/or reviewed the autopsy report from August.


Welcome to CL DrBill. :seeya: Are the reports online somewhere?

[DrBill100]

The police report, depositions and also the complete tape of her stop at Sunoco are at a news site called LoHud. If I were more computer savvy I would probably know how to pate that. I'm not. Please let me know your thoughts after reviewing these docs. Thanks for the welcome as well...

[DrBill100]

Following is the website that has the tape of her stop at Sunoco. On the same site you can find the documents police report, depositions of witnesses and accident report. I don't know how to insert a link properly but you can copy and paste. Interested in your opinion of the documents. Thanks for the welcome also.

http://www.lohud.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200991117005

[SaraSidle]

Following is the website that has the tape of her stop at Sunoco. On the same site you can find the documents police report, depositions of witnesses and accident report. I don't know how to insert a link properly but you can copy and paste. Interested in your opinion of the documents. Thanks for the welcome also.

http://www.lohud.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200991117005

thanks for the link DrBill

[old_soul]

Thank you DrBill !.....This is the link to the witness reports, police reports, etc...
I realized I cannot pull up PDF documents..anyone know what I have to do to be able to view these? (I also have stuff from my kids school which I couldn't get to ~ now I understand ~ it must be PDF also..help :confused:)

http://www.lohud.com/article/20091110/NEWS02/911100348/Drivers+:%20Schuler%20seemed%20to%20be%20ill

[One2Snoop]

Thank you DrBill !.....This is the link to the witness reports, police reports, etc...
I realized I cannot pull up PDF documents..anyone know what I have to do to be able to view these? (I also have stuff from my kids school which I couldn't get to ~ now I understand ~ it must be PDF also..help :confused:)

http://www.lohud.com/article/20091110/NEWS02/911100348/Drivers+:%20Schuler%20seemed%20to%20be%20ill

I'm looking for another link but so far no success. You need to have Adobe Reader downloaded in order to read PDF.

ETA: Here's the link for Adobe Reader....

http://www.adobe.com/products/reader/

[DrBill100]

For the last 3 weeks the vast majority of information on this case has been attributed to the family(ies) of the three gentlemen in the car that Schuler hit. Their anger and grief is certainly understandable. The information however derives from their attorney(s) Irv Anolik and Sichol to note two. The general nature of this information is selective release of information to generate public (and insurance) disfavor toward Schuler. In this case I have deemed this the "Anolik Schtik". Not that the information should be ignored but it was be properly weighted in the context of the resultant legal process wherein adversaries are adocating for their respective positions. The statements of CMP investigators and Schulers attorney, Barbara, have been non-directive, meandering and counter productive. As Sichol notes, no less than "ridiculous".

The sequence of events that led to this horrendous loss of life will probably never be known. The process and procedures that should have provided essential facts were squandered. The official documents relative to the case are in conflict with the public statements issuing from those that prepared them. Yet more significant the official documents are self contradictory.

[One2Snoop]

Hey DrBill - thanks for that info. Isn't that the way with attorney's though? To taint the public opinion? I've not had a chance to read the links yet but plan to do so today. I'll be back in a couple of hours. :seeya:

[DrBill100]

I neglected to provide direction to the autopsy report which includes the toxicology report, as follows:

http://longisland.newsday.com/data/pdfs/Diane%20Schuler%20autopsy.pdf

Also for those interested the following link provides access to the documents and records from NY State Police:
1) depositions of witnesses (accident scene, those observing Schuler from campsite, McDonalds, Sunoco, while enroute)
2) incident report (an aggregation of reports filed by several investigators)
3) accident report (as filed by assigned state trooper)

http://www.lohud.com/article/20091110/NEWS02/911100348/Drivers--Schuler-seemed-to-be-ill

[One2Snoop]

Following is the website that has the tape of her stop at Sunoco. On the same site you can find the documents police report, depositions of witnesses and accident report. I don't know how to insert a link properly but you can copy and paste. Interested in your opinion of the documents. Thanks for the welcome also.

http://www.lohud.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200991117005

I just watched the video. She appears to be walking fine. Did the store clerk say what she went into the store for? It looked as though she were looking for someone?

[SaraSidle]

I neglected to provide direction to the autopsy report which includes the toxicology report, as follows:

http://longisland.newsday.com/data/pdfs/Diane%20Schuler%20autopsy.pdf

Also for those interested the following link provides access to the documents and records from NY State Police:
1) depositions of witnesses (accident scene, those observing Schuler from campsite, McDonalds, Sunoco, while enroute)
2) incident report (an aggregation of reports filed by several investigators)
3) accident report (as filed by assigned state trooper)

http://www.lohud.com/article/20091110/NEWS02/911100348/Drivers--Schuler-seemed-to-be-ill


thanks so much for this information DrBill.

[DrBill100]

According to indirect testimony (not in official docs) but reported in interview, she requested pain medication in gel tab form. The store was out.

[SaraSidle]

According to indirect testimony (not in official docs) but reported in interview, she requested pain medication in gel tab form. The store was out.

now that is really interesting. anyone drinking or going to drink vodka of all things would know they do not need pain pills

[DrBill100]

I hadn't thought of that... Also apparent in this video is the fact that her movements are fluid, she pivots on one leg with complete balance, doesn't stagger, weave, bump into or brush against any item. She looks for the item without bending closer to the display, seemingly notes it's not there, inquires about it and leaves. At least during this brief period she was not indecisive. Fast forward. 35-45 minutes later she is sighted pulled over at the side of the road, "as if she were vomiting.". This "indicated the possibility of her intoxication" according to a spokesman appearing on Fox5 (NY). Following this noted sighting she is observed at intervals of 15 min., 20 min., and 30 minutes by witnesses. The last sighting once again was once again out of her vehicle. Once again stating she "looked sick". None of these witnesses, and one had her in view for about 15 minutes, reported that they saw her drink or smoke. Each reported seeing her inside the car also. None reported her looking or acting as though she were intoxicated.

[DrBill100]

A good article on Daniel Schuler, Diane and Bryan in the New Yorker Magazine:

http://nymag.com/news/features/62043/comments.html

[SaraSidle]

Well the vomiting makes sense if she was not used to drinking and had just guzzled quite a bit of vodka

[DrBill100]

Another perplexing element of the case. The NYS police incident report (see link below), a chronological record of the investigation from start to closure, makes no mention of a "vodka bottle" or liquor of any type except in citing the Tox report. So the much reported vodka bottle didn't make it into the reports of any of the 17 investigators' reports aggregated into the final report. The Medical Examiner has stated that they are unable to determine what she drank?
http://www.lohud.com/article/2009111...emed-to-be-ill

[SaraSidle]

Another perplexing element of the case. The NYS police incident report (see link below), a chronological record of the investigation from start to closure, makes no mention of a "vodka bottle" or liquor of any type except in citing the Tox report. So the much reported vodka bottle didn't make it into the reports of any of the 17 investigators' reports aggregated into the final report. The Medical Examiner has stated that they are unable to determine what she drank?
http://www.lohud.com/article/2009111...emed-to-be-ill

so she could have had straight alcohol and no one would know the difference. I mean like grain alcohol or moonshine which would have registered a high alcohol percent IMO

[One2Snoop]

I keep thinking she may have been poisoned. Are there any types of poison that mimic alcohol?

[SaraSidle]

I keep thinking she may have been poisoned. Are there any types of poison that mimic alcohol?

not that I am aware of but I do think she was forced or tricked into drinking it. what would be the motive? boyfriend? did she stop and get a large drink anywhere?

[old_soul]

A good article on Daniel Schuler, Diane and Bryan in the New Yorker Magazine:

http://nymag.com/news/features/62043/comments.html

Thank you for posting this link....it was a good article. Of course Diane was no Angel..are any of us? Danny can keep those feelings and thoughts in his own heart..it was his wife and daughter and he has a right to those memories however he sees them.
In this tragic story, I see no sense.........
Unfortunately, (my) many unanswered questions are still there. The videos look to be Mrs. Anybody stopping for gas, and going in for (what is said, Advil or Tylenol) means she needed them ~ for something. At McDonalds for food and oj ~ Normal. By all accounts, and not just Danny's she was straight when she left Hunter Lake. Would she, could she drink all that alcohol and smoke with the kids not knowing? The only times out of the car was twice on the side of the road (?), for gas, Mc Donalds & at Ramapo with the kids. The Advil was for ~ what?

WTH happened? From watching true crime for many years, we have seen, over and over, how tox results don't necessarily give an answer ~ or the truth(correct results). Mistakes are made and sometimes they are brought to light, and sometimes not.

I know what the tox said. The pot smoking means nothing in the scheme of things...it's the alcohol and the blatent disregard for the childrens lives and her own~ and those she ultimately killed. I'm not convinced yet it's all that it seems to be ~ a drunken woman with a death wish on a whim ..on that beautiful summer day.

:rose:

[old_soul]

I keep thinking she may have been poisoned. Are there any types of poison that mimic alcohol?

not that I am aware of but I do think she was forced or tricked into drinking it. what would be the motive? boyfriend? did she stop and get a large drink anywhere?

I'm all ears..

How? where? what are you guys thinking?

[SaraSidle]

I'm all ears..

How? where? what are you guys thinking?

OS this may sound wierd but I am looking at her DH? I do not know enough about him but he left at the same time, took no children.

See for years we would vacation at lake michigan 3 hours away from detroit.
we would take 2 cars and dad and mom split the kids and followed each other. why would it be different for anyone? it was a good thing because right after mom get new tires on the station wagon they each blew up on the way one time. that whole area of the story seems murky to me.

[old_soul]

OS this may sound wierd but I am looking at her DH? I do not know enough about him but he left at the same time, took no children.

See for years we would vacation at lake michigan 3 hours away from detroit.
we would take 2 cars and dad and mom split the kids and followed each other. why would it be different for anyone? it was a good thing because right after mom get new tires on the station wagon they each blew up on the way one time. that whole area of the story seems murky to me.

:eek: OMG! what were the chances of that?? Tires blowing out is scarey! It happened to us once, (not on highway though)...

OK I'll bite...you're right about splitting up, sounds feasible, especially since you've done it. I have to go back and reread..why he didn't take the kids...didn't he stay on? Or was he going somewhere else other than home? Anything is possible sara..He could be involved..it's their synopsis of her story that's hinky.......that's alot of alcohol.

If so, can you imagine that schitt?! Tox not showing something, or not being tested for a 'certain' something in her system......

[DrBill100]

You've hit the nail on the head. With each release of official information more questions are raised than answered. Bear in mind that the toxicology report (TR) can be no more accurate than the samples obtained at autopsy. The mistakes in this matter were made at the time of autopsy (July 27). That's why, I conjecture, the toxicologist (with a masters degree) is speaking in defense of the procedure while the MDs with advanced training in pathology and who selected and submitted the samples, sit quietly in the other room. The best hope for this case, for all of the families involved, is probably with the insurance companies that directly employ medical experts, and defense attorneys that are acquainted with the proper protocols.

[SaraSidle]

:eek: OMG! what were the chances of that?? Tires blowing out is scarey! It happened to us once, (not on highway though)...

OK I'll bite...you're right about splitting up, sounds feasible, especially since you've done it. I have to go back and reread..why he didn't take the kids...didn't he stay on? Or was he going somewhere else other than home? Anything is possible sara..He could be involved..it's their synopsis of her story that's hinky.......that's alot of alcohol.

If so, can you imagine that schitt?! Tox not showing something, or not being tested for a 'certain' something in her system......

I know OS but I have not been able to find anything on his actions during his trip. Isn't that strange to you????t

[old_soul]

Another thing I questioned (and highly doubt) is whether touch DNA was used on the broken bottle found in the van. It's placement (front or back) of the car is a moot point because of the violent impact of the crash.
If not, for the sake of ruling it out, wasn't that done.

Not too long ago, I believe A&E with Bill Curtis had a story about a very young child who died. Back and forth to the emergency room & doctor for his medical problems. Poor baby. LE and the state determined it was the mother who killed him by poisoning, with antifreeze. (It was supposedly found in his brain tissues). They determined she put it in his bottle. Tried and conviced after much drama surrounding the case, and states forensic experts testifying, the mother went to prison. At the time she was
pregnant with her second child. Later on she had moments alone, though incarcerated, with her 2nd boy, who presented with the same initial symptoms as the first child . A shock to all, but now she is blamed for doing the same to her new baby.

I believe she changed attys this time, for her appeal. The 2nd atty did his homework and found scientists and specialist who understood the symptoms ...long story short, it was a genetic disease both her children had, a by product of this disease produced this type of chemical composition in the blood and brain.. After many years in the can, etc, etc, she was absolved and freed.

I will try to find this story and post a link. Rivoting. Point is, common sense tells us... antifreeze isn't available in prison, so how does the state explain how this is so? Tox was misread, not enough was done, and it wasn't antifreeze after all.....

Schuler's case also does not add up ~ it makes no common sense.

[SaraSidle]

You've hit the nail on the head. With each release of official information more questions are raised than answered. obtainedBear in mind that the toxicology report (TR) can be no more accurate than the samples at autopsy. The mistakes in this matter were made at the time of autopsy (July 27). That's why, I conjecture, the toxicologist (with a masters degree) is speaking in defense of the procedure while the MDs with advanced training in pathology and who selected and submitted the samples, sit quietly in the other room. The best hope for this case, for all of the families involved, is probably with the insurance companies that directly employ medical experts, and defense attorneys that are acquainted with the proper protocols.

BBM I really am not sure of what you mean by that. I understand the insurance companies will cover the cost but I think something may have happened to make sure she had an accident. the drinking does not add up for a normal person. her organs were in great shape so we know she was not a problem/secret drinker. she could not handle alcohol if she had to pull over twice to be sick per witnesses. so something secret had to have happened for her to have so much alcohol in her system so fast that no one noticed it on her stops.

[SaraSidle]

Another thing I questioned (and highly doubt) is whether touch DNA was used on the broken bottle found in the van. It's placement (front or back) of the car is a moot point because of the violent impact of the crash.
If not, for the sake of ruling it out, wasn't that done.

Not too long ago, I believe A&E with Bill Curtis had a story about a very young child who died. Back and forth to the emergency room & doctor for his medical problems. Poor baby. LE and the state determined it was the mother who killed him by poisoning, with antifreeze. (It was supposedly found in his brain tissues). They determined she put it in his bottle. Tried and conviced after much drama surrounding the case, and states forensic experts testifying, the mother went to prison. At the time she was
pregnant with her second child. Later on she had moments alone, though incarcerated, with her 2nd boy, who presented with the same initial symptoms as the first child . A shock to all, but now she is blamed for doing the same to her new baby.

I believe she changed attys this time, for her appeal. The 2nd atty did his homework and found scientists and specialist who understood the symptoms ...long story short, it was a genetic disease both her children had, a by product of this disease produced this type of chemical composition in the blood and brain.. After many years in the can, etc, etc, she was absolved and freed.

I will try to find this story and post a link. Rivoting. Point is, common sense tells us... antifreeze isn't available in prison, so how does the state explain how this is so? Tox was misread, not enough was done, and it wasn't antifreeze after all.....

Schuler's case also doesn't not add up with common sense.

oh my OS what a great post. I remember the case so well. I do not remember names or I would help you find it but I saw it on TV and told myself never forget to have an open mind. what a great example. Anyone can tell that was not Diane's way of life. She would never hurt those children no matter how depressed she was.. If she was a closet drinker she would have waited till she got home. it was only supposed to be a 2 hour trip.

[old_soul]

Questions loom about mom in NY crash that killed 8
By FRANK ELTMAN, Associated Press Writer Frank Eltman, Associated Press Writer – 58 mins ago

FLORAL PARK, N.Y. – Diane Schuler was a devoted mother admired for her competence, ease with children and sense of humor. Never, her family said, had there been a more responsible and trusted friend or caregiver.

So far, no one can pinpoint why Schuler, 36, drove the wrong way on a familiar suburban New York parkway for nearly 2 miles before slamming head-on into another vehicle, killing herself and seven others.

State police investigating the fiery July 26 wreck on the Taconic State Parkway are examining a phone call Schuler made to her brother shortly before the crash. She was taking her two children and three nieces home from an upstate camping trip at the time.

A medical examiner is digging deeper for answers after ruling that Schuler didn't have a heart attack or stroke behind the wheel, and plans further testing to determine whether she had signs of an advanced diabetic condition.

The crash — the worst in the parkway's 75-year history — killed Schuler, her 2-year-old daughter and three nieces ages 5,7 and 8, as well as three Yonkers men in the SUV hit by her minivan. Only Schuler's 5-year-old son survived.

"I have never heard of eight people being killed in an accident of this kind," said Peter Plante, a retired Connecticut state trooper and traffic accident reconstruction expert. "It's almost as if it were a perfect storm of circumstances with so many people in each vehicle."

Douglas Hayden, an attorney and spokesman for the Long Island family, declined comment on the investigation Friday.

The accident happened on a sunny and clear summer afternoon in Briarcliff Manor on a route from upstate New York to Long Island that Schuler had driven many times before. She found herself going south in the northbound lanes as motorists sought in vain to get her attention; six drivers called 911 before the collision.

One of the few clues state police have is a telephone conversation between Schuler and her brother, Warren Hance, the father of the older girls who died. About a half-hour before the wreck, Schuler called Hance at his home in Floral Park and seemed disoriented, saying she was having trouble seeing. Her husband had left the campground earlier Sunday for a fishing trip, police said.

At one point, Hance's 8-year-old daughter Emma took her aunt's cell phone and spoke to her father, indicating the van had just crossed the Tappan Zee Bridge south into Westchester County. Hance then told his sister to stay put and he would drive from Long Island to meet her, instructions she disregarded.

Family friend Lisa Acosta said the Schulers camped almost every weekend at the same upstate park, and said Schuler knew the route so well she could have driven it blindfolded.

"I don't understand," said Acosta. "It's a really, really sad thing."

Schuler's cell phone was left at the parking area south of the bridge, where she last spoke to her brother. A motorist found it later in the day.

After forensic pathologists ruled out a stroke, aneurysm or heart attack, Dr. Kunjlata Ashar, deputy medical examiner for Westchester County, said she would test Schuler's eye fluid for evidence of heightened blood sugar levels, a possible sign of ketoacidosis.

The American Diabetes Association says ketoacidosis is a life-threatening condition that can cause shortness of breath, nausea and confusion.

Noted forensic pathologist Dr. Michael Baden doubted that possibility for Schuler.

"People just don't have a hypoglycemic crisis out of the blue," said Baden, who has been an expert witness in cases involving celebrities such as John Belushi, O.J. Simpson, Phil Spector and David Carradine. "The family would know right away if this woman had issues with diabetes."

Baden said other toxicology testing results, due within four to six weeks, could yield some answers.

"They didn't see anything in the autopsy that could account for this behavior," he said. "Now they are going under the microscope to see if they can find something."

Ashar said her testing also has ruled out carbon monoxide poisoning as a possible cause.

Except for issuing a written statement about the victims, the Schuler and Hance families have chosen to grieve privately.

"Diane was an accomplished working mother who balanced her responsibilities with grace; she always put her children before any other priorities," the family statement said.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090802/ap_on_re_us/us_wrong_way_crash


Bolding mine~ this is all we ever heard about him that AM..and that he kissed her and the kids goodbye, and would see them later at home.

[SaraSidle]

Bolding mine~ this is all we ever heard about him that AM..and that he kissed her and the kids goodbye, and would see them later at home.

Exactly what I mean OS. where what how when and why. are my questions. I know most people think I sound crazy but this is not adding up in anyway to me. imo The strength from her motherhood is much stroner than needing a drink for a 2 hour drive. I do not even care if everyone calls her an alcoholic. If she wanted to die it would not have been that way imo

[DrBill100]

Every time I post a response it goes to the wrong spot.

My mention of the autopsy essentially supports your contention that her organs showed no sign of alcohol abuse. But the error occurred when the pathologist drew a blood sample from her right chest cavity. If, as is claimed she had 6 g unabsorbed in her stomach then alcohol had continued to diffuse into the chest cavity during the 15 hrs that elapsed from the time of death. This process is known to elevate central cavity by over 400%. In addition, most substances that could be detected in her system would show up in the liver. A liver sample was forwarded to toxicology (see top of tox report) but was not tested and remains unaccounted for. I completely agree that alcohol was probably not the cause of her disorientation. Nor was marijuana. Unfortunately, the needed evidence to first disprove the prevailing claims is now gone and those in a position to challenge the findings are looking the other way.

[One2Snoop]

I agree with all of you nothing adds up but what can one possibly take to show the level of alcohol her results showed? Anyone who's had straight alcohol knows what it taste like - most people can't stand it straight. So Sara you brought up a good question about pure grain alcohol and possibly whatever she was drinking was spiked. I can't imagine for the life of me drinking and traveling a long distance with a car load of kids. From all we've heard so far this doesn't sound like something she would do.

:confused:

I think the husband needs to be looked at a bit more closely. JMO

[SaraSidle]

I agree with all of you nothing adds up but what can one possibly take to show the level of alcohol her results showed? Anyone who's had straight alcohol knows what it taste like - most people can't stand it straight. So Sara you brought up a good question about pure grain alcohol and possibly whatever she was drinking was spiked. I can't imagine for the life of me drinking and traveling a long distance with a car load of kids. From all we've heard so far this doesn't sound like something she would do.

:confused:

I think the husband needs to be looked at a bit more closely. JMO

I agree O2S. bottle could have been planted. I really wonder what she ate and drank that morning before she left and after. was any of the stuff she ingested checked. if anything ever happens to me I want you guys on it.

[One2Snoop]

I agree O2S. bottle could have been planted. I really wonder what she ate and drank that morning before she left and after. was any of the stuff she ingested checked. if anything ever happens to me I want you guys on it.

You got it Sara! :seeya:

The whole alcohol thing is possible in my mind but I'm thinking she didn't know she was drinking it. It might explain why her head was hurting and the witnesses who saw her on the side of the road throwing up. Then she stops for gas and asks for (Tylenol) - pain medication.

DrBill do you know if any hair samples were taken and tested for arsenic etc??

[DrBill100]

No hair samples were tested. The ME was asked about this and declined to answer. It is very unusual not to obtain hair samples. No witness saw her vomit. One said she looked sick, the other that her position looked as though she was going to vomit. No witness described her as looking or acting intoxicated. By the way, assuming she was sober at Sunoco, she had 35-45 minutes to drink herself to sickness. It seems far more likely that she was in fact sick from another cause.

The purpose for the pain medication was for an abcessed tooth. At autopsy there is no mention of the tooth nor any indication that it was checked for.

[SaraSidle]

No hair samples were tested. The ME was asked about this and declined to answer. It is very unusual not to obtain hair samples. No witness saw her vomit. One said she looked sick, the other that her position looked as though she was going to vomit. No witness described her as looking or acting intoxicated. By the way, assuming she was sober at Sunoco, she had 35-45 minutes to drink herself to sickness. It seems far more likely that she was in fact sick from another cause.


I believe the hair sample would be reflective of any marijuana use. I think it can be tested by the inches for use of drugs. It still smells of mistakes and cover up,

[One2Snoop]

No hair samples were tested. The ME was asked about this and declined to answer. It is very unusual not to obtain hair samples. No witness saw her vomit. One said she looked sick, the other that her position looked as though she was going to vomit. No witness described her as looking or acting intoxicated. By the way, assuming she was sober at Sunoco, she had 35-45 minutes to drink herself to sickness. It seems far more likely that she was in fact sick from another cause.

The purpose for the pain medication was for an abcessed tooth. At autopsy there is no mention of the tooth nor any indication that it was checked for.

Thanks for the corrections and the info about the abcessed tooth. I don't remember reading anything about the tooth.

[DrBill100]

That it would....Yes it does! Amen

[DrBill100]

I believe the hair sample would be reflective of any marijuana use. I think it can be tested by the inches for use of drugs. It still smells of mistakes and cover up,

That it would.......Yes it Could.....It sure does! Amen

[SaraSidle]

That it would.......Yes it Could.....It sure does! Amen


I am going to send you a private message. Did you hear any of the 911 tapes?

[DrBill100]

Did you hear any of the 911 tapes?

I believe I have heard them all. But I'm always interested in comparing what I hear from one tape to that from another site. Where did you find them?

[One2Snoop]

I believe I have heard them all. But I'm always interested in comparing what I hear from one tape to that from another site. Where did you find them?

911 calls at this link - takes a minute for the site to load....

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/calls_show_frantic_bid_to_find_taconic_2i6tGpFIAND KOdKaFNJ5dK

[One2Snoop]

OK, this is bizarre - I posted my response about the daiquiri's first and the time read 9:15. A few minutes later I posted the link to the 911 calls and the time read 9:13 :confused: I wonder where this post will land LOL. :eek:

ETA: Looks like my daiquiri post doesn't rank and landed last in my 3 posts even though I posted it first. Weird. :shrug:

[One2Snoop]

I've never known anyone in my lifetime to get drunk from a daiquiri myself included. After 2 my stomach is full and I don't feel drunk out of my mind.
Was it OS that mentioned anti-freeze? If Dianne Schuler was drinking anti-freeze in a daiquiri I don't think she'd know it. But Daniel did say 2 days before the crash. hmmmmm? My point is, drinking daiquiri's is considered a foo-foo drink and people don't become alcoholics from drinking them. So no, Mr *******i, Daniel didn't lie when he said Diane hadn't been drinking before the crash. He said 2 days before. WTH? :shrug:

snipped
Schuler admitted that on July 24 -- two days before the crash -- he had a couple of beers and his wife had a few daiquiris, despite Schuler's news conference soon after crash when he claimed, "She did not drink. She is not an alcoholic."

"Daniel Schuler admitted drinking with Diane Schuler that weekend," said an outraged Michael *******i, Jr. following a meeting in White Plains with authorities today.

"It's totally the opposite of what [Danny] Schuler said at a press conference in August," added *******i, whose dad Michael Sr., and brother Guy died in the crash. "It's disgusting. It was all lies."

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/report_taconic_crash_smoked_pot_B7PDtHfFJNjUdipUJV 166H#ixzz0WO3A53IM

[BeastofBears]

I keep thinking she may have been poisoned. Are there any types of poison that mimic alcohol?

Check out GHB poisoning just as a possibility. It mimics alcohols effects, is apparently very difficult to detect in autopsy since it naturally occurs in the body, and clearly often goes into drinks unnoticed (it's the "date rape" drug). There's stuff out there that could do this...

[BeastofBears]

No hair samples were tested. The ME was asked about this and declined to answer. It is very unusual not to obtain hair samples. No witness saw her vomit. One said she looked sick, the other that her position looked as though she was going to vomit. No witness described her as looking or acting intoxicated. By the way, assuming she was sober at Sunoco, she had 35-45 minutes to drink herself to sickness. It seems far more likely that she was in fact sick from another cause.

The purpose for the pain medication was for an abcessed tooth. At autopsy there is no mention of the tooth nor any indication that it was checked for.

The car burned, right? There might not be hair to test. I don't know the exact condition of the body. But a couple of pages back I posted a study that showed high temperatures could produce alcohol detected at autopsy.

If they didn't check for an abcessed tooth, considering it was mentioned by the hubby, that would be very odd. Especially since it should have automatically turned up in an autopsy anyway. And how about the "lump" on her leg?

I find it really hard to believe she could go from visibly sober to raging drop-down drunk in so short a space of time. I mean, how bad could the kids have been in the car to make her seek oblivion? No way. I would really like to know if she brought any drinks with her from the campground to drink on the way. Seriously.

[DrBill100]

I've never known anyone in my lifetime to get drunk from a daiquiri myself included.



Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/report_taconic_crash_smoked_pot_B7PDtHfFJNjUdipUJV 166H#ixzz0WO3A53IM

Dan Schuler's statement to police (July 31) included the following:
"...he had a couple of beers and his wife had two strawberry daiquiris" (see p. 11, Line item 55, NYState Police report).

If I were the investigator my first question would have been "What did she mix the drinks in?" Even pre-mix (where the alcohol is added) are made in a blender and usually require frozen strawberries. Of course one could use a shaker or the drink could have been completely pre-made (bottled and ready to drink in bottles like a wine cooler). Either way the vodka bottle is a non-sequitur. Daiquiri is a rum drink.

Diane has been previously reported to have had an occasional pina colada at parties, etc. also a rum drink. A glass of wine is mentioned in her drinking history. No statement provided to police, nor any other evidence involves vodka. (i.e. Bloody mary, vodka & tonic, orange juice) Except, of course the vodka bottle in the van which, to date, the police have failed to produce and is not shown in the Items of Evidence (see p. 14, NYState Police report, "EVIDENCE")

If it weren't for this single claim, to date unsubstantiated, no person reading the report would even think about looking for vodka. There is no indication she drank vodka on that day or at anytime in the past. Try it. Read through the report and question whether you would be looking for a vodka resource. Let me know.

[DrBill100]

I forgot to add link to police report:

http://www.lohud.com/article/20091110/NEWS02/911100348/Drivers--Schuler-seemed-to-be-ill

[DrBill100]

The car burned, right? There might not be hair to test. ......a couple of pages back I posted a study that showed high temperatures could produce alcohol detected at autopsy.

If they didn't check for an abcessed tooth, considering it was mentioned by the hubby, that would be very odd. Especially since it should have automatically turned up in an autopsy anyway. And how about the "lump" on her leg?

I find it really hard to believe she could go from visibly sober to raging drop-down drunk in so short a space of time. ..... No way. I would really like to know if she brought any drinks with her from the campground to drink on the way. Seriously.

Schuler's body, found lying cross ways in the van, immediately after the accident, was removed to the exterior by several people on scene and prior to the time the van was engulfed in flames. She did however have some "thermal" damage limited mostly to her lower legs and thigh. Minimal in scope. Her body did lie in close proximity to the burning van for a few minutes until it was moved again, further away.

At autopsy, external examination observed "The head is normal...The light brown hair is long." (see p. 1, Autopsy Report) The absence of a hair sample can only be explained by oversight, choice, or subsequent loss or destruction. Related, it should also be noted that the Liver sample obtained at autopsy and forwarded to toxicology was not tested nor otherwise accounted for. (see Autopsy Report, p. 15; Toxicology Report, p.1) Westchester has refused to explain the hair sample and no one has called them on the liver sample.

I compliment you on finding information on Postmortem Ethanol Synthesis. Within the professional journals this is a well known, extensively documented phenomenon. Virtually unknown outside professional literature. Hard for the average reader to understand that alcohol is actually fermented in the human body after death and the amount can be substantial. However, all pathologists should be thoroughly informed of the process and furthermore that Schuler's case (involving blunt force trauma, open wounds, environmental exposure, heat source) is a textbook example of precedent conditions necessitating that it be ruled out.

If you enjoy investigating you should try Googling "postmortem redistribution" in relation to this case.

Link to autopsy report and toxicology report:
http://longisland.newsday.com/data/pdfs/Diane%20Schuler%20autopsy.pdf

[One2Snoop]

I forgot to add link to police report:

http://www.lohud.com/article/20091110/NEWS02/911100348/Drivers--Schuler-seemed-to-be-ill

I spent the last hour reading the report and don't see any mention of a vodka bottle. What police officer stated the following and why? :confused:


GARDEN CITY, N.Y. – A mother drank vodka and smoked marijuana while taking a vanload of children home from a weekend camping trip that ended in disaster when she went the wrong way on a highway and crashed into an SUV, killing eight people, police said Tuesday.

Diane Schuler, who died along with her 2-year-old daughter and three nieces in her red minivan, had more than 10 drinks of alcohol in her system and a high level of the main ingredient in marijuana, authorities said. A broken 1.75-liter bottle of Absolut vodka was found in her wrecked minivan, police said.

This link no longer works but you can read the entire article on page 1 of this thread. Post #8
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090805/ap_on_re_us/us_wrong_way_crash

[DrBill100]

[QUOTE=One2Snoop;9237203]I spent the last hour reading the report and don't see any mention of a vodka bottle. What police officer stated the following and why? :confused: [QUOTE]

The statement is widely and exclusively attributed to Maj. William Carey, a troop commander of the New York State Police. It was reported in numerous publications on that date and on the 5th. The context was a press conference held on August 4, 2009. It was at that time the Toxicology Report was made public and the Westchester toxicologist stated that the BAC was "equivalent" to 10 drinks. As you are aware, since that time the vodka bottle has become central to media accounts of the case. Virtually every article states that she was drunk on vodka, had 10 drinks of vodka during her trip.

As reported in the NY Times, Lt. Dominick Chiumento [NY State Police] said in a telephone interview that “It wasn’t discovered at the time of the accident. We couldn’t really see it. But it was found when the accident reconstruction guys were removing the seats.” In an article with a by line from the AP, CNN further quoted him (August 5) as saying "You couldn't see it at first. I even looked at photos of the van and wouldn't have been able to see it,"

However in seeming contradiction Chiumento also supplemented this by saying pieces of the bottle were scattered around the minivan although not found immediately after the accident. "It was recently found,” Chiumento is quoted as saying on August 4. The mini-van was removed from the scene later that same day (July 26) although the vodka bottle was "found days later."

Newspaper reports and the quotes are often in error. However, the statement by Carey was recorded. The fact that the NY State Police claim to have found a vodka bottle is public record.

I rely entirely on verifiable empirical information to evaluate. The police incident report was released on September 23, 2009. It contains reports up to and including that date.

As you noted, there is no vodka bottle mentioned in the official police report. Why do you think that would be?

[One2Snoop]

The statement is widely and exclusively attributed to Maj. William Carey, a troop commander of the New York State Police. It was reported in numerous publications on that date and on the 5th. The context was a press conference held on August 4, 2009. It was at that time the Toxicology Report was made public and the Westchester toxicologist stated that the BAC was "equivalent" to 10 drinks. As you are aware, since that time the vodka bottle has become central to media accounts of the case. Virtually every article states that she was drunk on vodka, had 10 drinks of vodka during her trip.

As reported in the NY Times, Lt. Dominick Chiumento [NY State Police] said in a telephone interview that “It wasn’t discovered at the time of the accident. We couldn’t really see it. But it was found when the accident reconstruction guys were removing the seats.” In an article with a by line from the AP, CNN further quoted him (August 5) as saying "You couldn't see it at first. I even looked at photos of the van and wouldn't have been able to see it,"

However in seeming contradiction Chiumento also supplemented this by saying pieces of the bottle were scattered around the minivan although not found immediately after the accident. in "It was recently found,” Chiumento is quoted as saying.

Newspaper reports and the quotes are often in error. However, the statement by Carey was recorded. The fact that the NY State Police claim to have found a vodka bottle is public record.

I rely entirely on verifiable empirical information to evaluate. The police incident report was released on September 23, 2009. It contains reports up to and including that date.

As you noted, there is no vodka bottle mentioned in the official police report. Why do you think that would be?

The bottle could have been thrown out the window by almost anyone, even a transient may have left it there. When the van rolled it scattered pieces of the vodka bottle. I think my scenario sounds fairly possible although I realize I'm not the state police.

The van didn't belong to Diane Schuler. If there was a bottle in the van could it have been left there by a Hance family member?

I read that Daniel was going to have Diane's body exhumed so more testing could be done - do you know if this has happened yet?

[DrBill100]

To date, and to the best of my knowledge, no affirmative action has been taken to disinter Diane. Her husband is in the unenviable position of funding an extremely expensive pursuit. A pathologist, toxicologist etc. Diane was the money maker in the family and he reportedly makes just enough to pay the mortgage. The cost for the cadre of specialists that would be required to disentangle the case could well top 100G. Westchester officials will continue to "stand by" their findings with assurance that the average citizen simply can't afford to challenge them.

[BeastofBears]

Schuler's body, found lying cross ways in the van, immediately after the accident, was removed to the exterior by several people on scene and prior to the time the van was engulfed in flames. She did however have some "thermal" damage limited mostly to her lower legs and thigh. Minimal in scope. Her body did lie in close proximity to the burning van for a few minutes until it was moved again, further away.

At autopsy, external examination observed "The head is normal...The light brown hair is long." (see p. 1, Autopsy Report) The absence of a hair sample can only be explained by oversight, choice, or subsequent loss or destruction. Related, it should also be noted that the Liver sample obtained at autopsy and forwarded to toxicology was not tested nor otherwise accounted for. (see Autopsy Report, p. 15; Toxicology Report, p.1) Westchester has refused to explain the hair sample and no one has called them on the liver sample.

I compliment you on finding information on Postmortem Ethanol Synthesis. Within the professional journals this is a well known, extensively documented phenomenon. Virtually unknown outside professional literature. Hard for the average reader to understand that alcohol is actually fermented in the human body after death and the amount can be substantial. However, all pathologists should be thoroughly informed of the process and furthermore that Schuler's case (involving blunt force trauma, open wounds, environmental exposure, heat source) is a textbook example of precedent conditions necessitating that it be ruled out.

If you enjoy investigating you should try Googling "postmortem redistribution" in relation to this case.

Link to autopsy report and toxicology report:
http://longisland.newsday.com/data/pdfs/Diane%20Schuler%20autopsy.pdf

Thank you! I will check out the postmortem redistribution. I finally buckled down to read the autopsy ( I had stepped back because things got a bit hot in here for a while). Wow. Lot's of fatal injuries there-I have never read an autopsy report from a bad car accident. That'll put you off of driving for a while.

Sounds like she was very healthy. Maybe overweight, but other than that...nada. It also really doesn't sound like any effort was made to look at the maxilla where the husband said she had an abscess, just the traumatic injuries noted. It may well be irrelevant, but it should have been looked at, imo. It should show up even with the massive facial injuries she had...

As far as I'm concerned, no vodka bottle on the police report, no vodka bottle. In any case, I wonder what is stuck under the seats of my car? I really don't know. Something is so very wrong here...

[BeastofBears]

Hmmm, I particularly enjoyed the subtitle "a toxicological nightmare" for the postmortem redistribution...thank you again. I will read more and mull some more...

[DrBill100]

Right you are. It probably would have been irrelevant but the purpose of the autopsy is to rule out contributing causes. Don't leave answerable questions unanswered.....Just caught your last post. Derrick Pounder used that title in a 1990 precedent setting study. There are volumes of studies on the phenomenon. Pounder and Jones are leading heads in the field.

[SaraSidle]

Right you are. It probably would have been irrelevant but the purpose of the autopsy is to rule out contributing causes. Don't leave answerable questions unanswered.....Just caught your last post. Derrick Pounder used that title in a 1990 precedent setting study. There are volumes of studies on the phenomenon. Pounder and Jones are leading heads in the field.


Interesting that the fluid was gray in her stomach. it does not sound like she was using her safety belt with all those injuries.

and the blood tests at the end tell us nothing and they could be informative.

[old_soul]

Interesting that the fluid was gray in her stomach. it does not sound like she was using her safety belt with all those injuries.

and the blood tests at the end tell us nothing and they could be informative.

We already have so many inconsistencies, the bottle being a highly questionable item and not reported correctly, hair not being tested, the abscess, and we did read correctly on the autopsy report that liver samples were taken ~ and not tested. (thanks DrBill)

Here area few more things (the press jumped on), that seem to have been twisted around...

One witness report said Diane sitting on the guard rail at one point. I understood she was standing there leaning over with her hands on her knees, as if vomiting. Sitting on the guardrail like that is different from the way it was made to sound. Does this sound inconsequential?

Not when you add in the report of her phone being found on the side of the roadas if tossed or whatever. Quite a bit different than the witness report of finding her phone placed neatly on the barrier...as if forgotten when she got up. Was that the last call Diane had, when she said she wasn't feeling well?

Every single one of those kids had been locked in their seat belts when the crash happened. This had never been brought up, and gives insight to the kind of mother she was. Lock the kids in, but let's have another six more drinks along the way??? :confused: So they're safe? :confused: Sara, no mention of a seat belt for her, but also no mention of the bag opening either. Car was a 2003..should have had air bags in the front..:confused: Those massive injuries are indicative of her going high speed (and *******i also in the passing lane), doing at least 55............204 lbs of Diane hitting the steering wheel and/or windsheid at first which fractured her face, and the jaw (omg) like that...and winding up cross ways in the van. Could a seat belt tear out at that velocity /impact?

I think it would be the ME's job to address the many inconsistencies which are there begging for an answer. Money being problematic aside, how the heck can anyone get them to test these things if they say they did what they needed to?! Quite a fight DS has..but the brunt shouldn't be on him when proper procedures were not done by the ME. :no:

They have just made her out to be an alocholic, pot smoking killer. I feel like I'm seeing a trailer from 'Reefer Madness'! :(

[SaraSidle]

We already have so many inconsistencies, the bottle being a highly questionable item and not reported correctly, hair not being tested, the abscess, and we did read correctly on the autopsy report that liver samples were taken ~ and not tested. (thanks DrBill)

Here area few more things (the press jumped on), that seem to have been twisted around...

One witness report said Diane sitting on the guard rail at one point. I understood she was standing there leaning over with her hands on her knees, as if vomiting. Sitting on the guardrail like that is different from the way it was made to sound. Does this sound inconsequential?

Not when you add in the report of her phone being found on the side of the roadas if tossed or whatever. Quite a bit different than the witness report of finding her phone placed neatly on the barrier...as if forgotten when she got up. Was that the last call Diane had, when she said she wasn't feeling well?

Every single one of those kids had been locked in their seat belts when the crash happened. This had never been brought up, and gives insight to the kind of mother she was. Lock the kids in, but let's have another six more drinks along the way??? :confused: So they're safe? :confused: Sara, no mention of a seat belt for her, but also no mention of the bag opening either. Car was a 2003..should have had air bags in the front..:confused: Those massive injuries are indicative of her going high speed (and *******i also in the passing lane), doing at least 55............204 lbs of Diane hitting the steering wheel and/or windsheid at first which fractured her face, and the jaw (omg) like that...and winding up cross ways in the van. Could a seat belt tear out at that velocity /impact?

I think it would be the ME's job to address the many inconsistencies which are there begging for an answer. Money being problematic aside, how the heck can anyone get them to test these things if they say they did what they needed to?! Quite a fight DS has..but the brunt shouldn't be on him when proper procedures were not done by the ME. :no:

They have just made her out to be an alocholic, pot smoking killer. I feel like I'm seeing a trailer from 'Reefer Madness'! :(


ITA OS. in an accident where I live no matter how serious seat belts and bags are always mentioned in the first news article usually.
If the prosecutor wants to close the case he better deal with those inconsistencies I agree........not fair to the family or public. IMO

[deacon]

We already have so many inconsistencies, the bottle being a highly questionable item and not reported correctly, hair not being tested, the abscess, and we did read correctly on the autopsy report that liver samples were taken ~ and not tested. (thanks DrBill)

Here area few more things (the press jumped on), that seem to have been twisted around...

One witness report said Diane sitting on the guard rail at one point. I understood she was standing there leaning over with her hands on her knees, as if vomiting. Sitting on the guardrail like that is different from the way it was made to sound. Does this sound inconsequential?

Not when you add in the report of her phone being found on the side of the roadas if tossed or whatever. Quite a bit different than the witness report of finding her phone placed neatly on the barrier...as if forgotten when she got up. Was that the last call Diane had, when she said she wasn't feeling well?

Every single one of those kids had been locked in their seat belts when the crash happened. This had never been brought up, and gives insight to the kind of mother she was. Lock the kids in, but let's have another six more drinks along the way??? :confused: So they're safe? :confused: Sara, no mention of a seat belt for her, but also no mention of the bag opening either. Car was a 2003..should have had air bags in the front..:confused: Those massive injuries are indicative of her going high speed (and *******i also in the passing lane), doing at least 55............204 lbs of Diane hitting the steering wheel and/or windsheid at first which fractured her face, and the jaw (omg) like that...and winding up cross ways in the van. Could a seat belt tear out at that velocity /impact?

I think it would be the ME's job to address the many inconsistencies which are there begging for an answer. Money being problematic aside, how the heck can anyone get them to test these things if they say they did what they needed to?! Quite a fight DS has..but the brunt shouldn't be on him when proper procedures were not done by the ME. :no:

They have just made her out to be an alocholic, pot smoking killer. I feel like I'm seeing a trailer from 'Reefer Madness'! :(

If not defective, no. My question is who would spike her drink or poison her? And for what reason?

[BeastofBears]

If not defective, no. My question is who would spike her drink or poison her? And for what reason?

Who would the usual suspect be? I would start there. Of course, if someone had tampered with a, say, bottle of gatorade, it could have been "meant" for someone else and was just picked up by Diane for the drive.

ITA about the seatbelt breaking. I t-boned another car at 65 mph and my passenger was at least 350 lbs. It held. But his hand hit the windshield and both broke, even with the airbags deploying. So he did have enough movement to get that far. Since she was only 5'3" she probably sat very close to the steering wheel and hence the windshield, so that could be why she broke everything. Considering the violence of the crash, I would think if she was unbelted she would have been ejected? But I'm sure there are many variables in that...

[SaraSidle]

what about the air bag BoB? ITA with you

[old_soul]

Who would the usual suspect be? I would start there. Of course, if someone had tampered with a, say, bottle of gatorade, it could have been "meant" for someone else and was just picked up by Diane for the drive.

ITA about the seatbelt breaking. I t-boned another car at 65 mph and my passenger was at least 350 lbs. It held. But his hand hit the windshield and both broke, even with the airbags deploying. So he did have enough movement to get that far. Since she was only 5'3" she probably sat very close to the steering wheel and hence the windshield, so that could be why she broke everything. Considering the violence of the crash, I would think if she was unbelted she would have been ejected? But I'm sure there are many variables in that...

I don't doubt it, she would have been ejected without any seatbelt on. The violent stop is what brought her back and then the tumbling and rolling..

Remember the witnesses who had to avoid her just before the accident...?

One said she had her hands at 10 & 2, looking straight ahead.
Another said she had both hands gripped on each side of the steering wheel , looking panicked as cars moved over to the other lanes to avoid her..
Another said she was hunched close to the steering wheel, with her arms bent at 90 degree angles.

the mere thought of her being poisoned is just as believable as her downing all that booze and smoking joints~ with 5 kids around her the whole while. Both are hinkey thoughts, eh?

[BeastofBears]

I don't doubt it, she would have been ejected without any seatbelt on. The violent stop is what brought her back and then the tumbling and rolling..

Remember the witnesses who had to avoid her just before the accident...?

One said she had her hands at 10 & 2, looking straight ahead.
Another said she had both hands gripped on each side of the steering wheel , looking panicked as cars moved over to the other lanes to avoid her..
Another said she was hunched close to the steering wheel, with her arms bent at 90 degree angles.

the mere thought of her being poisoned is just as believable as her downing all that booze and smoking joints~ with 5 kids around her the whole while. Both are hinkey thoughts, eh?

It's true. It takes a lot for me to think that, but I do consider foul play to be at least as likely as her drinking that much that fast, this way. No matter what, I think something is hinkey...

Does anyone know if Diane was on a diet or had lost weight recently? Turns out fat tissue, where THC is stored, will release it under stress or weight loss, resulting in a positive marijuana test. http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2009/08/10/smoked-pot-last-month-dieting-stress-may-mean-positive-drug-test/

[DrBill100]

Does anyone know if Diane was on a diet or had lost weight recently? Turns out fat tissue, where THC is stored, will release it under stress or weight loss, resulting in a positive marijuana test. http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/discoblog/2009/08/10/smoked-pot-last-month-dieting-stress-may-mean-positive-drug-test/

You're reading the right material. There is no greater stress that panic. Like suddenly realizing you're going to headon a car. There are a couple of cases, one involving a skydiver whose chute didn't open, where panic led to a sudden flush of their system with all of the marijuana. Weight loss is a good point though because there are several such cases but usually lower levels. Schuler's system may well have been flushed because her urine THC level was very high. Remember that her urine level had nothing to do with the blood level. The 133 (peak peak blood) wouldn't reach her urine for about 4 hours. She had 1638 COOH in her urine from another much earlier source or residual from heavy daily use. 2 separate readings. I'll try to find a link to the sky diver but try "marijuana, THC, postmortem" Another point to remember about THC is that it is lipophilic, stores in fat. Actually it forms a weak bond in fat. That's why it remains in the system so long and releases erratically. Just the opposite of ethanol which stores in systemic water and moves into and out of tissue by simple diffusion to the area of lower concentration........Re-reading your post I see you already knew most of that. Excuse the unwarranted lecture.

[BeastofBears]

You're reading the right material. There is no greater stress that panic. Like suddenly realizing you're going to headon a car. There are a couple of cases, one involving a skydiver whose chute didn't open, where panic led to a sudden flush of their system with all of the marijuana. Weight loss is a good point though because there are several such cases but usually lower levels. Schuler's system may well have been flushed because her urine THC level was very high. Remember that her urine level had nothing to do with the blood level. The 133 (peak peak blood) wouldn't reach her urine for about 4 hours. She had 1638 COOH in her urine from another much earlier source or residual from heavy daily use. 2 separate readings. I'll try to find a link to the sky diver but try "marijuana, THC, postmortem" Another point to remember about THC is that it is lipophilic, stores in fat. Actually it forms a weak bond in fat. That's why it remains in the system so long and releases erratically. Just the opposite of ethanol which stores in systemic water and moves into and out of tissue by simple diffusion to the area of lower concentration........Re-reading your post I see you already knew most of that. Excuse the unwarranted lecture.

No apologies. This is outside of my usual territory, and I enjoy reading your post, and posts! The two different sources/readings is a good point.

I hadn't said this before, because I got so into the exchange, but welcome to the board!

[SaraSidle]

No apologies. This is outside of my usual territory, and I enjoy reading your post, and posts! The two different sources/readings is a good point.

I hadn't said this before, because I got so into the exchange, but welcome to the board!


You know I was reading and thinking the other day how stress could produce more alcohol drugs in the body then were there in the first time. I had a friend once who was dinking in a hot tub for 2 long and she had few drinks and seemed fine when she got dressed and drove home where it hit her all at once and she rolled her car. she is fine but it was strange how the hot water had sped up the metabolism of the alcohol.

Motive the usual sex or love or greed. IMO

Love your nic Dr Bill. reminds me of Mr Bill from SNL

[SaraSidle]

Where was Daniel through this trip? Every time we went to our cottage as a family mom and dad followed each other and split the kids. where was dh?

[DrBill100]

I notice that the point man in Schuler's efforts has been discredited. A retired NY City detective that is also a "convicted felon." Also a "licensed private investigator?"

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/suffolk/schuler-investigator-ruskin-is-convicted-felon-records-show-1.1641476

This will of course be a significant blow to any exculpatory evidence that he has presented or argued.

[SaraSidle]

I notice that the point man in Schuler's efforts has been discredited. A retired NY City detective that is also a "convicted felon." Also a "licensed private investigator?"

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/suffolk/schuler-investigator-ruskin-is-convicted-felon-records-show-1.1641476

This will of course be a significant blow to any exculpatory evidence that he has presented or argued.


Most definitely. that is a shame for that family...IMo sara

[Kayleighjo]

I find the irresponsible reporting of this story, including People magazine, to be totally reprehensible. She's been deemed a closet drunk, etc with no proof whatsoever that she was.

[DrBill100]

I find the irresponsible reporting of this story, including People magazine, to be totally reprehensible. She's been deemed a closet drunk, etc with no proof whatsoever that she was.

Right you are. There is no evidence Schuler was drunk at the time of this crash except for the toxicology report which, despite many errors, no one has challenged. It's particularly frustrating as the remainder of the investigation, including the autopsy, renders the tox results impossible.

The recent reports (past 30 days) are the results of press releases from the attorneys of those suing the estate...upping settlements, etc.

[SaraSidle]

Right you are. There is no evidence Schuler was drunk at the time of this crash except for the toxicology report which, despite many errors, no one has challenged. It's particularly frustrating as the remainder of the investigation, including the autopsy, renders the tox results impossible.

The recent reports (past 30 days) are the results of press releases from the attorneys of those suing the estate...upping settlements, etc.

You know I still have in the back of my mind that at some point on the trip she was forced to drink that alcohol. I do not know how or why. I still have questions as to why dh did not take some of the kids and follow her. we did that for years. 5 kids 2 cars following each other on a 3 hours trip to the cottage. Yes I have many questions and the poor family is just being raked through the coals. something is not right. IMO sara

[SaraSidle]

http://www.lohud.com/article/2009912100396

here we go

[Kayleighjo]

http://www.lohud.com/article/2009912100396

here we go

I find it ludicrous that they would name Warren Hance in the lawsuit just because he was the owner of the van. What, exactly, is this family hoping to accomplish? I understand that they have grief and anger, but why should people that have no responsibility be held responsible? Let us remember that Warren Hance lost his 3 beautiful children in this crash too.

[BeastofBears]

I find it ludicrous that they would name Warren Hance in the lawsuit just because he was the owner of the van. What, exactly, is this family hoping to accomplish? I understand that they have grief and anger, but why should people that have no responsibility be held responsible? Let us remember that Warren Hance lost his 3 beautiful children in this crash too.

I think it is standard for contingency lawyers in these cases to make it a free-fire zone and go for the jugular of anyone vaguely involved who may have money. It's why we love them so darn much.

The only way, imo, he could be responsible is if he saw she was drunk or high, or had a habit of doing so while traveling, and still let her drive. Maybe this will result in a more full investigation of what really happened.

[old_soul]

I think it is standard for contingency lawyers in these cases to make it a free-fire zone and go for the jugular of anyone vaguely involved who may have money. It's why we love them so darn much.

The only way, imo, he could be responsible is if he saw she was drunk or high, or had a habit of doing so while traveling, and still let her drive. Maybe this will result in a more full investigation of what really happened.

Hi BoB :seeya: Yes, the writing was on the wall re a suit against maybe her estate...but...her Brother?! WTH, once these lawyers get involved it's like a free for all ~ ITA with your above post, and also hope maybe Someone will reinvestigate the many things we have discussed on this thread :mad:
In the meantime, the man is dealing with his own (many) demons....
what if's, and anger over what happened with his sister and ALL his children, and her little daughter....

It's just wrong. :no:

[DrBill100]

I find it ludicrous that they would name Warren Hance in the lawsuit just because he was the owner of the van. What, exactly, is this family hoping to accomplish? I understand that they have grief and anger, but why should people that have no responsibility be held responsible? Let us remember that Warren Hance lost his 3 beautiful children in this crash too.

Don't look for answers to emerge from these suits. Schuler was clearly the cause of the accident and the purpose of the publicity is to increase the amount of settlement. Put pressure on the insurance company and force a settlement with the defendants. None of the lawyers want a trial. Discovery would be limited to trying to demonstrate foreknowledge of either the husband or brother. The real problems with the case are receding into the background (autopsy, toxicology, phantom vodka bottle, etc).

[SaraSidle]

Hi BoB :seeya: Yes, the writing was on the wall re a suit against maybe her estate...but...her Brother?! WTH, once these lawyers get involved it's like a free for all ~ ITA with your above post, and also hope maybe Someone will reinvestigate the many things we have discussed on this thread :mad:
In the meantime, the man is dealing with his own (many) demons....
what if's, and anger over what happened with his sister and ALL his children, and her little daughter....

It's just wrong. :no:

hi OS. I agree with you and BoB and kayleighjo.........and I hope to heck there is a reinvestigation but I am not holding my breath.

[DrBill100]

Attorney John Q. Kelly will now represent the *******is' relatives in a civil lawsuit against Schuler's estate and Hance. Kelly has represented clients such as the estate of O.J. Simpson's deceased wife Nicole Brown Simpson and the parents of missing and possibly murdered teen Natalee Holloway....The *******is family attorney, Irving Anolik, said today they had fired Rockland attorney Brian Sichol, who had initially filed the *******i's civil suit. Anolik said Sichol was overcharging the *******is and leaving him in the dark about happenings in the case.;)


full story at:
http://www.lohud.com/article/20100104/NEWS02/1040362/Family-of-Taconic-victims-hires-celebrity-lawyer

WHY DOES IT INSERT A STRING OF ASTERICKS WHEN I PASTE?

[One2Snoop]

Attorney John Q. Kelly will now represent the *******is' relatives in a civil lawsuit against Schuler's estate and Hance. Kelly has represented clients such as the estate of O.J. Simpson's deceased wife Nicole Brown Simpson and the parents of missing and possibly murdered teen Natalee Holloway....The *******is family attorney, Irving Anolik, said today they had fired Rockland attorney Brian Sichol, who had initially filed the *******i's civil suit. Anolik said Sichol was overcharging the *******is and leaving him in the dark about happenings in the case.;)


full story at:
http://www.lohud.com/article/20100104/NEWS02/1040362/Family-of-Taconic-victims-hires-celebrity-lawyer

WHY DOES IT INSERT A STRING OF ASTERICKS WHEN I PASTE?

Because of the word B/a/s/t/a/r/d. Next time just add a space in the name and it should be ok....

Bas tardi's

[DrBill100]

Now I get it. Thanks.

[BeastofBears]

Because of the word B/a/s/t/a/r/d. Next time just add a space in the name and it should be ok....

Bas tardi's

I have a whopper of a last name, but this makes me glad it isn't one that results in swear-blocking...it could always be worse, I could be a *******i!

Sadly, Dr. Bill...agree on the lawyer dance. This will be one of those things I will think of from time to time and never get an answer, I bet. Thanks for the update-there's a lawyer name I know!

[DrBill100]

You and I can follow this case from the perspective of distant curiosity or professional interest. Unfortunately her young son, friends and relatives must wake every day and live in the midst of it. They too, will never get answers.

[BeastofBears]

...or know if the answers they get are real or not. I hope they can use the uncertainty to create the least damaging narrative of events for the little boy, at least.

[Marian Paroo]

Because of the word B/a/s/t/a/r/d. Next time just add a space in the name and it should be ok....

Bas tardi's

The autocensors are so paranoic and dumb! I had to change the word c@cktails to mixed drinks in a place with one of those once, because of the autocensor!

And, one had to spell "Cummings" as Commings" at Greta's board because it couldn't handle the c@m !

[Hotwater]

The autocensors are so paranoic and dumb! I had to change the word c@cktails to mixed drinks in a place with one of those once, because of the autocensor!

And, one had to spell "Cummings" as Commings" at Greta's board because it couldn't handle the c@m !

It's a serious problem thanks to spammers. This site is targeted on a daily basis. Most who've posted here for a long time remember the porn attack on this site. New proceedures were put in place to stop these sorts of attacks and yes one of those proceedures involved censoring bad language.

[SaraSidle]

And you have done a wonderful job protecting us. I spent an entire weekend dealing with porn on this site and it was enough for a lifetime.
It has been wonderful posting since that August fiasco. thank you CW and HW and anyone else who helped with that. (you know who you are LOL)

On this case my heart goes out to these families. I do not think a civil suit will help much because it is just going to bring up all the pain of going through it again. And I do not feel either that enough evidence has been brought forth.......IMO sara