Sandra Cantu: Tracy, California 8 yrs old

[deacon]

Not all people who molest and/or murder do not fit the "mold" that research and THs place them or attempt to place them in.:shrug:

[lorettalockhorn]

Sunday school teacher charged with murder in girl's death

A Sunday school teacher suspected of killing an 8-year-old Northern California girl was charged today with murder, authorities said.

The charge against Melissa Huckaby, 28, also carried the special circumstances of kidnapping, rape with a foreign object and lewd and lascivious conduct with a child, said Sgt. Tony Sheneman of the Tracy Police Department. The charges were filed by the San Joaquin County district attorney’s office, he said.

Huckaby is scheduled to be arraigned today. If convicted of the murder charge and any of the special circumstances, she could face life in prison without the possibility of parole or the death penalty.

Investigators found the remains of Sandra Cantu in a suitcase that was pulled from an irrigation pond. She disappeared March 27, and Huckaby, who lives in the same mobile home park as Cantu, was arrested Friday in connection with her slaying.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/04/girl-suitcase-1.html

[lorettalockhorn]

Why Do Women Kill?
Criminologists: Female Killers' Backgrounds and Motivations Differ From Male Killers

Police investigating the murder of Sandra Cantu said they were on the lookout for the kind of man who could kill an 8-year-old girl and stuff her body in a suitcase.

But the suspect they arrested late last week didn't fit their expectations.

Police say Sandra's killer is 28-year-old Melissa Huckaby, a Sunday school teacher and the mother of one of Sandra's close friends. Huckaby allegedly killed the second-grader and dumped the suitcase containing her body in a nearby irrigation pond.

Though little is known about Huckaby or a possible motive, if the allegations are true, Huckaby would not fit the typical profile of a killer. According to the Justice Department, roughly one in 10 homicides are committed by women. And when women kill, their victims are more likely to be someone close to them, like their children, boyfriends or spouses.

Forensic psychologists and criminal profilers say women who kill have backgrounds and motivations that are often quite different from their male counterparts. Compared with men, women are more likely to be related to their victim, less likely to plan in advance and less likely to use extreme violence.


Criminologists: Women and Men Kill for Different Reasons
"Women are different in whom, how and why they kill," said James Alan Fox, a criminologist at Northeastern University. "The victims are younger, they're more often related to them, they kill with means other than guns.

"The traditional female role is a nurturer, not a murderer. Extreme violence is far more alien to females than to males," he added. "When a murder is committed by a female, it's more likely to be self-defense or can reflect some sort of mental illness."

Though women committed roughly 10 percent of murders between 1976 and 2005, they were involved in nearly 35 percent of murders of intimate partners and nearly 30 percent of murders of where the victim was another family member, according to the Justice Department...

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=7326555&page=1

[lorettalockhorn]

Where are my manners, welcome to nubes and returnees! :seeya:

HLN has coverage of the arraignment proceedings.

[lorettalockhorn]

No Plea Entered During Melissa Huckaby's First Court Appearance in the Sadra Cantu Case

STOCKTON (KRON) -- Melissa Huckaby is not yet entering a plea to charges that she kidnapped, murdered and raped eight-year old Sandra Cantu.

Huckaby made a brief appearance in San Joaquin County Superior Court Tuesday afternoon. She's due back in court on Friday, April 24th.

Prosecutors filed the murder and kidnapping charges with the special circumstances of rape with a foreign object and lewd and lascivious conduct with a child under 14.

Huckaby has been in the San Joaquin County jail without bail since her arrest late Friday night in the death of eight-year old Sandra Cantu.

Prosecutors say if a jury finds Huckaby guilty of murder or kidnapping with the special circumstances, she could receive the death penalty or life in prison without the possibility of parole. She was arrested after making statements to Tracy Police which they say gave them probable cause that she was the killer.

Sandra Cantu disappeared on Friday, March 27th. Investigators say it appears the child was dead before the alarm was raised. Her body was found ten days later inside a suitcase in an irrigation pond.

Stay tuned to KRON 4 and KRON4.com for continuing coverage of the Sandra Cantu case.

http://www.kron.com/News/ArticleView/tabid/298/smid/1126/ArticleID/1035/reftab/36/t/No-Plea-Entered-During-Melissa-Huckaby-s-First-Court-Appearance-in-the-Sadra-Cantu-Case/Default.aspx

Video at link.

[deacon]

No Plea Entered During Melissa Huckaby's First Court Appearance in the Sadra Cantu Case

STOCKTON (KRON) -- Melissa Huckaby is not yet entering a plea to charges that she kidnapped, murdered and raped eight-year old Sandra Cantu.

Huckaby made a brief appearance in San Joaquin County Superior Court Tuesday afternoon. She's due back in court on Friday, April 24th.

Prosecutors filed the murder and kidnapping charges with the special circumstances of rape with a foreign object and lewd and lascivious conduct with a child under 14.

Huckaby has been in the San Joaquin County jail without bail since her arrest late Friday night in the death of eight-year old Sandra Cantu.

Prosecutors say if a jury finds Huckaby guilty of murder or kidnapping with the special circumstances, she could receive the death penalty or life in prison without the possibility of parole. She was arrested after making statements to Tracy Police which they say gave them probable cause that she was the killer.

Sandra Cantu disappeared on Friday, March 27th. Investigators say it appears the child was dead before the alarm was raised. Her body was found ten days later inside a suitcase in an irrigation pond.

Stay tuned to KRON 4 and KRON4.com for continuing coverage of the Sandra Cantu case.

http://www.kron.com/News/ArticleView/tabid/298/smid/1126/ArticleID/1035/reftab/36/t/No-Plea-Entered-During-Melissa-Huckaby-s-First-Court-Appearance-in-the-Sadra-Cantu-Case/Default.aspx

Video at link.


Don't know about this case but sometimes that is telling. You know?

[tandarat]

It could mean anything. Her lawyer may still need time to really talk to her, or maybe they are considering trying a plea bargain (don't know if DA would go for that....I think the public might lynch him if he did...), or maybe she is just being stubborn and refusing to make a plea. Who knows.

[Amy]

Larry King Live (with Joy Behar), 4/13/09:

http://www.artharris.com/

Includes comments by Sgt.Tony Sheneman:

...But first, let's talk with Sergeant Tony Sheneman. He's the spokesman for the Tracy Police Department.

Hello, Sergeant Sheneman.

What made Huckaby suspicious?

SGT. TONY SHENEMAN, SPOKESMAN, TRACY POLICE DEPARTMENT: Inconsistent statements that she had made over the course of being spoken to during the initial canvas when we were looking for Sandra and then later on when she was interviewed prior to her interview with the Tracy Press. And then again when she was interviewed by the Tracy Press, all of her statements were fairly inconsistent.

BEHAR: Uh-huh.

Is the investigation in the case still going on?

SHENEMAN: There's still work being done that needs to be completed for prosecution. However, all of the work that was done to identify the person who was responsible for Sandra Cantu's death has been completed. We had no indication that anyone else was involved. And if we did, we would have arrested those people at the same time.

BEHAR: OK. So there are no further arrests anticipated, then?

SHENEMAN: Correct.

BEHAR: OK.

Was molestation the motive?

SHENEMAN: We don't have a motive and we've been trying to determine one. She didn't give us one. And we can't come up with a reason why a mother would murder another mother's child.

BEHAR: But the allegation is that it was rape, kidnapping and rape with an object. It's kind of gruesome, what you're saying and what we're hearing.

What evidence do you actually have on the case that would lead us to those -- those statements?

SHENEMAN: I appreciate the question. Unfortunately...

BEHAR: You can't answer it.

SHENEMAN: I can't answer it right now.

BEHAR: OK. And the suspect, Melissa, is reportedly under suicide watch.

Is there a specific reason why she in particular is under a suicide watch or is everybody who is arrested in these type of cases under that?

SHENEMAN: Everyone who's arrested in these type of cases is put in an observation area for their own safety. According to the sheriff's department, she's made no statements that she wants to harm herself or is a danger to herself.

BEHAR: I see.

What -- what charges do you expect to be filing, exactly, tomorrow?

SHENEMAN: When she was -- when she was booked, she was booked on charges of kidnapping and murder. And we're informed by the district attorney that she'll be charged with abduction, murder, rape with a foreign object and lewd and lascivious acts with a child.

BEHAR: And how -- how is the community dealing with it?

It's a terrible, terrible crime.

How is everyone around there dealing with this? SHENEMAN: It's very difficult to accept that a member of your community would be responsible for such a heinous act. So we were hoping that we would begin the healing process. But with the additional charges, that's an additional blow, besides the fact that we found out it was a member of the community and a woman.

BEHAR: Uh-huh.

Thank you.

Thank you very much, Sergeant.

SHENEMAN: Thank you.

BEHAR: We'll be keeping in touch with you...


I wish the reporters in all these cases would remember this from case to case. Instead of breathlessly (if you can do that in a written article) reporting the person arrested in on suicide watch, they should add, as is policy under this type of circumstance. AND perhaps have talked with jail officials to see if the said person has indicated suicidal tendencies. Such as in this case, she has NOT indicated she wishes to commit suicide.

[Nawny]

Don't know about this case but sometimes that is telling. You know?

Yep.

I can't wrap my brain around this one at all. I always hear and read in pictures and this picture won't happen for me. I can't go there. I can't get a visual, it's too freakish. This is Steven King stuff. The autopsy will most likely reveal cause of death. Motive? Who the EFF knows? Was there no motive at all? Was her death unexpected? Was this not the first time poor Sandra went to the church with that mutant?

[Amy]

It could mean anything. Her lawyer may still need time to really talk to her, or maybe they are considering trying a plea bargain (don't know if DA would go for that....I think the public might lynch him if he did...), or maybe she is just being stubborn and refusing to make a plea. Who knows.

According to the video I watched, the woman, I assume her attorney, she was not named, and there is no indication if she is hired or assigned, stated to the judge they would not enter a plea @ this time because she has had little time to talk to MH, and altho there was a med eval done, she would like the opportunity to have more done. She asked for the proceedings to be rescheduled for April 24.

[Amy]

Then pregnant women and pre-op trannies would be notorious for their murder sprees. Both groups are more likely to be victims.

She could just be an evil sicko. Just cause its never happened...I mean, someone had to be the first, right?

OTOH, there are a number (probably a HUGE number) of unsolved cases out there, some of them children, for sure. Maybe some of those cases haven't been solved because they are being investigated from the view of who usually commits that type of crime, etc. Maybe they are overlooking the small number who don't fit into any of their categories?

[lorettalockhorn]

Then pregnant women and pre-op trannies would be notorious for their murder sprees. Both groups are more likely to be victims.

She could just be an evil sicko. Just cause its never happened...I mean, someone had to be the first, right?

Not to mention post-menopausal women and women with poly-cystic ovarian syndrome. Good grief, can this woman not just be an anomaly? (Although if I wasn't so convinced that the kidnapping was premeditated, I would blame the whole thing on a similar incident that MH had undergone when younger that she was re-enacting.)

Also wondering if the rape is the cause of death.

[SuzDuJour]

So many unanswered questions.

Was anyone else in the home at the time? I assume the 5 year old was there, how perfectly awful. Makes me think MH took her to the church and the violence was done there and not done in the home.

I can't help but think someone else is involved in this. I know the police are saying no one else, but it makes more sense that she took her out of the house - perhaps videotaped - I just think a male is somehow involved.

It speaks volumes that Sandra was re-dressed - a mother would do that. But then WHY after such violence, unless that was done by someone else.

Just sayin'...

[lorettalockhorn]

Suz, the five year old was at the Huckaby home because Sandra's sister was babysitting her when Melissa left to go to the church. (I'll take that to mean that neither of the GPs were there.) Sandra's clothes were changed? I thought that she was dressed in the Hello Kitty tee shirt when discovered?

If the suitcase having been stolen was a ruse, I do believe that the assault and murder took place at the church, and was likely premeditated. The no plea makes me think that the defense is paving the way to an insanity defense. But again, if the suitcase having been stolen was a ruse, I don't think that will fly. Mental illness? Yes. Insanity? No.

[Avad1228]

I will be curious to see if a lawyer steps foward to help this person. I am still not clear how they found her, attached the suitcase to her or what other evidence they have tying her to this crime scene. Im bot saying she did not do it== it is just incredible that she would do this alone and what is the motive? She did want to be friends with her little girl? I cant imagine how this will play out. is the family involed?

[One2Snoop]

I will be curious to see if a lawyer steps foward to help this person. I am still not clear how they found her, attached the suitcase to her or what other evidence they have tying her to this crime scene. Im bot saying she did not do it== it is just incredible that she would do this alone and what is the motive? She did want to be friends with her little girl? I cant imagine how this will play out. is the family involed?

She told a reporter about the suitcase/description and then voila Melissa also found a note in her driveway describing where Sandra could be found, that's how they connected her to the crime.

[dixinites]

Poor thing. Just for you:

http://i36.tinypic.com/2wbxhj6.jpg

Um Are you in the right thread? (Or even on the right board??) IJM/Fep rarely posts to my recollection, and for either of them, especially our linkstress extraordinaire O2S to post without having read the latest is unheard of.

Got an axe? Well, here ya go:

http://i39.tinypic.com/2yod4dv.jpg

No, my advance apologies were to 02S and FEP, who I think always make kind and intelligent posts, but it appeared that others were sensationalizing all the gory details regarding what was done to this poor child.

My apologies to everyone for my harshness... I just don't see the need for all the lurid detail. Maybe you're right. I think I am on the wrong board. I don't want to read this stuff anymore.

Thanks for the Pepto...

[Nawny]

Not to mention post-menopausal women and women with poly-cystic ovarian syndrome. Good grief, can this woman not just be an anomaly? (Although if I wasn't so convinced that the kidnapping was premeditated, I would blame the whole thing on a similar incident that MH had undergone when younger that she was re-enacting.)

Also wondering if the rape is the cause of death.


I had that thought too Lor.

[Nawny]

So many unanswered questions.

Was anyone else in the home at the time? I assume the 5 year old was there, how perfectly awful. Makes me think MH took her to the church and the violence was done there and not done in the home.

I can't help but think someone else is involved in this. I know the police are saying no one else, but it makes more sense that she took her out of the house - perhaps videotaped - I just think a male is somehow involved. It speaks volumes that Sandra was re-dressed - a mother would do that. But then WHY after such violence, unless that was done by someone else.

Just sayin'...

Hmmm, that thought crossed my mind. Her acting alone so spontaneously makes no sense. What does make sense is, this may not be the first time she sexually assaulted a young girl. Also what makes sense is that she may have been re enacting something that happened to her (as Loretta mentioned) THe talking head shrinks on NG tonight were doing the psycho babble thing and none of it made sense. IMO.

One went on about psychopath stuff and that didn't work for me. How could she have been a psychopath so suddenly? The other koogootz talked in circles. I think we do a better job analyzing this freak of a woman and put a lot more thought into it. I liked what Mark Klass said. I always do.

I get that the crime happened in the church but I'm confused about how she got her there without being seen. I believe she put her in the suitcase in the church. Did she drive her home while she was in the suitcase and leave again to dispose of her?

Does anyone think she might have wanted to get caught, and that's why she led the police to the water with the note? That part puzzles me. She was pointing to herself and half ass confesses, then tells her family she's innocent.
What the check, why would she tell them she isn't? But I understand she told LE she was guilty. Do I have this right?

[Nawny]

I have no problem with both calling this evil AND looking for a reason.

But to assume that there HAS to be a reason, the next logical step is no accountability since it is not the perpetrator's fault, it is some biochemical deficiency. I won't accept that. It is true that testosterone levels have some correlation to violent crime, as does a history of child abuse and a myriad other things. But when it comes down to it, a choice is made, for good or evil, and that is why it must be punished.

Here Here! But more than this, we are back to looking at this kind of crime without emotion. If the young woman was crying in court "BECAUSE" she did it at all, then she might be one who was outside of herself when the crime happened according to shrink head number 2 on NG tonight. Does that matter? No, of course not. But it's a defense hook which may get her life instead of death. Me thinks.

[Nawny]

It just occurred to me; she was arrested for murder and the other things. This must mean they know she did it? Evidence must be in their hands. What ever object that was used to sexually assault the child must be loaded with finger prints. When NG asked the LE official if they had posession of the object used, he said, "I can't answer that" If they didn't have it, he'd have said no.

[lorettalockhorn]

No, my advance apologies were to 02S and FEP, who I think always make kind and intelligent posts, but it appeared that others were sensationalizing all the gory details regarding what was done to this poor child.

My apologies to everyone for my harshness... I just don't see the need for all the lurid detail. Maybe you're right. I think I am on the wrong board. I don't want to read this stuff anymore.

Thanks for the Pepto...

This is a sensational case if for no other reason than statistics.

http://i42.tinypic.com/2ibkzli.jpg
Have one. This is so bizarre, we'll all need at least one.

[Nawny]

We already have heard about the incident involving the 7 year old, possible drugging and molestation, though the info is fuzzy and from MH. I suspect that we will find out about a lot more incidents and suspicions that no one did anything about because, hey, women don't do that. I just think.

Though I like to think that they got a ring and are going to bust them...

Yep, been thinking the same thing jav. She may have worked with kids for a reason. We know she liked money. She was arrested for stealing prior. I can actually imagine a ring of perverts who paid her to bring them kids. When Sandra died, she was left with the task of getting rid of her. The reason I say this is, she led police with the note. Sounds like she wanted the child to be found of course, but more, she wanted to make sure they got caught. Maybe?

[Nawny]

A lot depends on the cause of death. The autopsy is everything...

Yep, yep, yep.

[Nawny]

I wasn't trying to make her less guilty. My idea was that she may have unfortunately acquired the same flaw that cause men to commit this crime. A big question is why is it primarily men that molest and kill. If it was determined that she had the conditions that I suggested, it could give us a better understanding of why it's usually a man's crime.

I hear that Lodi. Some need a reason. Some just need to be angry and don't care about the reason. I need a reason and that's why I'm already over the top frustrated. Just suppose they determine this woman had a physiological flaw, and that was the actual reason she was able to commit this crime; won't she still be held culpable and be prosecuted? I think yes. None the less it would make more sense.

[lorettalockhorn]

Good grief, I've got nothing against calling her an anomaly. An anomaly is what I described. I mentioned three conditions that when combined, might result in a woman doing this crime. No reason to think deficiency of female hormones alone caused it. Same with a woman having a high testosterone level being the sole cause. Most men with high testosterone levels don't kill. But men are responsible for almost all crimes like this one. Something specific to men's physiology make them more prone to do it. The last condition that I mentioned is the warped mental process that controls the guilty men. I wasn't saying that I thought this was the only answer. Just a possibility. I find it lacking to just call her evil and not look for some reason.

Well, good effing grief, I'm so hormonally imbalanced that I didn't realize that I had called her evil.

For the record. I think she's whack due to her own past that she premeditated this crime which was the re-inaction of an incident from her own past.

(Until I change my mind.)

[SuzDuJour]

[QUOTE=lorettalockhorn;9183095]Suz, the five year old was at the Huckaby home because Sandra's sister was babysitting her when Melissa left to go to the church. (I'll take that to mean that neither of the GPs were there.) Sandra's clothes were changed? I thought that she was dressed in the Hello Kitty tee shirt when discovered?QUOTE]


Hi Lo!!
I didn't mean her clothes were changed - I assumed that she had been undressed for the rape, then dressed again. Reminded me of the JonBenet murder, so maybe that's why I think she was re-dressed. I also TOTALLY agree that this stuff may have happened to her as a child...and if no one else was at home, why take her to the church, unless something connects that in her mind. I didn't want to go there, but I think there may be something to it.

Suz

[lorettalockhorn]

[QUOTE=lorettalockhorn;9183095]Suz, the five year old was at the Huckaby home because Sandra's sister was babysitting her when Melissa left to go to the church. (I'll take that to mean that neither of the GPs were there.) Sandra's clothes were changed? I thought that she was dressed in the Hello Kitty tee shirt when discovered?QUOTE]


Hi Lo!!
I didn't mean her clothes were changed - I assumed that she had been undressed for the rape, then dressed again. Reminded me of the JonBenet murder, so maybe that's why I think she was re-dressed. I also TOTALLY agree that this stuff may have happened to her as a child...and if no one else was at home, why take her to the church, unless something connects that in her mind. I didn't want to go there, but I think there may be something to it.

Suz

Thanks Suz, that makes sense. Huckaby may have been compelled (by whatever happened in the past) to take Sandra to the church to re-create whatever was in her own past.

[lorettalockhorn]

I've always been surprised that you almost never hear of gay women being accused of child molestation. Maybe nurturing instincts are stronger than other feelings. Good article.

Maybe because gay and molestation aren't positively correlated regardless of gender.

Molesters/pedophiles molest, not The Gays.

[Lodi]

~Snip~ CBS News reported Wednesday that Huckaby had been hospitalized after a suicide attempt a few days before her arrest. She tried to harm herself by swallowing three X-Acto knife blades, according to correspondent John Blackstone.

Huckaby appeared in a San Joaquin County courtroom Tuesday for her arraignment in a red jumpsuit and shackles, trembling and crying as a judge read the charge.

http://news.aol.com/article/missing-girl-sandra-cantu/423487?icid=main|main|dl1|link3|http%3A%2F%2Fnews. aol.com%2Farticle%2Fmissing-girl-sandra-cantu%2F423487

CNN.com - Another California Woman Mistaken for Suspect in Girl's Killing.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/04/15/wrong.huckaby/index.html?eref=aol

[lorettalockhorn]

~Snip~ CBS News reported Wednesday that Huckaby had been hospitalized after a suicide attempt a few days before her arrest. She tried to harm herself by swallowing three X-Acto knife blades, according to correspondent John Blackstone.

Huckaby appeared in a San Joaquin County courtroom Tuesday for her arraignment in a red jumpsuit and shackles, trembling and crying as a judge read the charge.

http://news.aol.com/article/missing-girl-sandra-cantu/423487?icid=main|main|dl1|link3|http%3A%2F%2Fnews. aol.com%2Farticle%2Fmissing-girl-sandra-cantu%2F423487

CNN.com - Another California Woman Mistaken for Suspect in Girl's Killing.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/04/15/wrong.huckaby/index.html?eref=aol

:eek: This girl has some self-loathing going on IMO. Is it because of what she did to Sandra, or because what's been done to her in the past? Both?

[Nawny]

I've wondered why MH put herself in the center of this case. The suitcase may be at the heart of it. She made a big point to the press that HER suitcase was stolen. It wasn't her grandfathers, it was HERS. The word suitcase was also included in the note she allegedly found. So, it seems that the main thing she was bringing attention to was the suitcase and stressing that it wasn't grandfather Lawless's.

I'll assume that the suitcase belongs to her, but i'm not sure of it. Whether it does or not, she used it in her crime possibly without much forethought. Later, she may have remembered that Mr Lawless had used the suitcase and people may have seen it. Plus the suitcase was kept at his house or his Church so it might tie him to the crime. The thought of him being accused and arrested may have terrified her and caused her to make all the fuss over it. In protecting him, she may have caught herself.


I will dare to say this: Don't all victims of sexual abuse protect their abusers?

[Nawny]

:eek: This girl has some self-loathing going on IMO. Is it because of what she did to Sandra, or because what's been done to her in the past? Both?

Probably both IMO. Who swallows razors? Well I think grandpa will come out of the laundry in this one.. just MO. Gut feeling? I don't trust the preacher. When MH gets close to the noose, the survival instinct in her will tell all.

[Nawny]

Wait a minute! If someone molested MH as a kid, why did she go and do it to an innocent child? Why not go to jail for murdering the POS who did it to her? Secondly, if they didn't do surgery on her to get those razors out, she either pooped them out or she is still dying slowly.

[Justice Denied?]

It could mean anything. Her lawyer may still need time to really talk to her, or maybe they are considering trying a plea bargain (don't know if DA would go for that....I think the public might lynch him if he did...), or maybe she is just being stubborn and refusing to make a plea. Who knows.

Yesterday, the THs were speculating that it was probably to allow time for a psychiatric evaluation. She was supposed to enter a mental health facility as a condition of probation on another case.

[deacon]

Sometimes that does happen-and sometimes they just continue the cycle. I cant imagine shatting out those razor blades. Good lord. She is one raging woman thats for sure. In the clip i saw of her she really does not look "well". MOO

Bet she doesn't do it again. I saw the clip from court and "well or sick" not as much as reality has set in.

[tandarat]

I hear that Lodi. Some need a reason. Some just need to be angry and don't care about the reason. I need a reason and that's why I'm already over the top frustrated. Just suppose they determine this woman had a physiological flaw, and that was the actual reason she was able to commit this crime; won't she still be held culpable and be prosecuted? I think yes. None the less it would make more sense.

By California law she will still be held responsible. The only way she would not is if she did not know at the time of the crime that she was doing wrong - i.e. she was schizophrenic and truly believed that God told her to do this, or that she truly believed that what she was doing was legal and in her right, or she did not have the mental capacity to tell right from wrong (mentally disabled). Disposing of the body kind of precludes any of the above.

I sure as hell hope (and am fairly confident that) LE has good circumstantial and physical evidence to convict her. It would be a shame if she is just very confused and did all these suspicious things to get attention or "help police" in some twisted way. She's obviously a compulsive liar. Hopefully she didn't just draw too much attention to herself. I have to be confident that they have plenty of evidence to corroborate their charges. I think that this is just so bizarre, and so tragic, that in some ways I don't want it to be true. And, of course, innocent until proven guilty.

I'm still wondering if there is more to this than we know. I'm still thinking either she or LE is holding back. More will surface in the coming months, I'm sure.

It sure brings back one of my great loves of forensic psychology. Something I had considered doing way back in high school, but decided against it because I worried about being a woman and working with some of these people. Stupid, I know, but I think I was afraid I wouldn't be good at it. That or my mom's influence showed. She's a serious chicken :tongue:.

[tandarat]

There is also the possibility of something like bipolar disorder. She fits a lot of the criteria - drugs (often they try to self medicate, plus BOTH mania and depression can lead to drug or alcohol use), compulsive behavior, history of depression, etc.

For some reason she may become a sexual predator when in a manic state. She may have these tendencies but is able to control them. One of the hallmarks of mania is the complete lack of impulse control. You would be frightened to know how many people actually have violent or otherwise "taboo" tendencies or fantasies, but they never act on them. When someone is in a manic state, impulse control goes out the window, and they can make some very VERY poor choices.

Just something to consider.

[tandarat]

Is the razor blade claim true? I thought that came from MH's mouth, and we all know how reliable THAT is. Internal bleeding can be from many causes, including ulcers aggravated by stress or medication. She may well have overdosed on some kind of medication or drug, and it in turn caused internal bleeding.

In fact, didn't the internal bleeding claim come from MH? Has it been verified by anyone else?

I'm kind of throwing that information out until I have verification. Too much speculation and rumors in this case.

[lorettalockhorn]

Here's the report from ch. 5: http://cbs5.com/crime/Melissa.Huckaby.suicide.2.985418.html

I really don't buy it. I simply don't see how you're going to get those blades out without some serious surgery or something? No way they would let you "pass" x-acto blades. And who is the source? I'm betting a family member. This is not LA. No hospital employee is going to be losing their job to tell this story.

Exacto blades are pretty small, can they be scoped? (No, not scooped!! :hat: ) When Anne Pressly was murdered in AR recently, several of the hospital personnel lost jobs over loose lips. Hard to believe, but true.

[Amy]

lol! Yeah, I don't buy the x-acto story either. People in Tracy are saying she od'd on grandma's coumedin, which makes more sense since she's out of the hospital.

More searching is going on at the church and the house: http://www.news10.net/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=57779&catid=2

Why didn't they just close the church before the whole congregation went tramping through on Sunday? If there was any chance anyone of them was involved, they could never prove it now, imo...

And would also be an explanation for "internal bleeding." And, there might not have BEEN any actual bleeding, just the possibility if indeed she took Coumadin.

[Amy]

Here's the report from ch. 5: http://cbs5.com/crime/Melissa.Huckaby.suicide.2.985418.html

I really don't buy it. I simply don't see how you're going to get those blades out without some serious surgery or something? No way they would let you "pass" x-acto blades. And who is the source? I'm betting a family member. This is not LA. No hospital employee is going to be losing their job to tell this story.

I agree. "Sources" does not necessarily mean police sources. In fact, this just said "sources" not even "sources close to the investigation" which one could ASSUME might mean LE, or even "sources close to the case" which could mean family, neighbor.

There is some stuff that I think I, @ least, would have to hear from LE, or evidence/testimony during the trial.

I noticed also in this article there was the mention of a gag order. With this kind of stuff blowing around (unsubstantiated by LE) it might not be a bad idea.

I haven't been in ER or Surgery for years and years, but I also don't think allowing exato blades (or anything else rather sharp, pointed) is probably state of the art medicine. I guess this would have to come from LE, who surely would not concur without having seen xrays to prove it. And, I don't think they're talking, either.

[Amy]

Exacto blades are pretty small, can they be scoped? (No, not scooped!! :hat: ) When Anne Pressly was murdered in AR recently, several of the hospital personnel lost jobs over loose lips. Hard to believe, but true.

Man, they ought to know that, no matter WHAT promises a reporter might make about keeping their name out of the matter, they WILL be found out. I was taught from day one about confidentiality, and pretty much took it to heart. (I'm a scaredy cat, plus I always figure that, even if I do something a lot of other people do, I WILL be caught, and be punished to set an example, lol.)

But, I do think the original statement came from MH? Even so, I don't think anyone from the hospital would confirm nor deny, unless it is the Administative Rep from the hospital.

[Amy]

Snip~ CBS News reported Wednesday that Huckaby had been hospitalized after a suicide attempt a few days before her arrest. She tried to harm herself by swallowing three X-Acto knife blades, according to correspondent John Blackstone.

http://news.aol.com/article/missing-girl-sandra-cantu/423487?icid=main|main|dl1|link3|http%3A%2F%2Fnews. aol.com%2Farticle%2Fmissing-girl-sandra-cantu%2F423487

CBS News correspondent John Blackstone is taking the credit for the report.

Yes, but CBS News Correspondent John Blackstone has to get his information from someone. He could very well be reporting what MH told him. He could be repeating what someone in the family told him. It does NOT say that this is official confirmation from LE or the hospital. I am sure Mr Blackstone is a well-regarded news correspondent, but until it is reported/confirmed by LE or an official official from the hospital, I guess I will wait for the testimony.

[Nawny]

By California law she will still be held responsible. The only way she would not is if she did not know at the time of the crime that she was doing wrong - i.e. she was schizophrenic and truly believed that God told her to do this, or that she truly believed that what she was doing was legal and in her right, or she did not have the mental capacity to tell right from wrong (mentally disabled). Disposing of the body kind of precludes any of the above.

I sure as hell hope (and am fairly confident that) LE has good circumstantial and physical evidence to convict her. It would be a shame if she is just very confused and did all these suspicious things to get attention or "help police" in some twisted way. She's obviously a compulsive liar. Hopefully she didn't just draw too much attention to herself. I have to be confident that they have plenty of evidence to corroborate their charges. I think that this is just so bizarre, and so tragic, that in some ways I don't want it to be true. And, of course, innocent until proven guilty.

I'm still wondering if there is more to this than we know. I'm still thinking either she or LE is holding back. More will surface in the coming months, I'm sure.

It sure brings back one of my great loves of forensic psychology. Something I had considered doing way back in high school, but decided against it because I worried about being a woman and working with some of these people. Stupid, I know, but I think I was afraid I wouldn't be good at it. That or my mom's influence showed. She's a serious chicken :tongue:.


That subject also fascinates me! I know the jury's out on whether or not multiple personalities are really possible but say it is, and say this nutcase really was crying because she committed this crime... hmmm. How would a court of law address this as sane?

I still don't know how they address the murder of a child as sane, but that's just me. I get that she hid the body which makes her aware of her crime. I also get that she wanted to be caught which sheds alittle light on her desire to be punished for it. What I don't get is how a normal mind could plan such a thing and then act it out. Not that an abnormal mind should get less than death. I mean they shoot horses for less. So whether the monster knows what its doing or doesn't know what its doing, it should be removed from earth.

:shrug:

[deacon]

That subject also fascinates me! I know the jury's out on whether or not multiple personalities are really possible but say it is, and say this nutcase really was crying because she committed this crime... hmmm. How would a court of law address this as sane?

I still don't know how they address the murder of a child as sane, but that's just me. I get that she hid the body which makes her aware of her crime. I also get that she wanted to be caught which sheds alittle light on her desire to be punished for it. What I don't get is how a normal mind could plan such a thing and then act it out. Not that an abnormal mind should get less than death. I mean they shoot horses for less. So whether the monster knows what its doing or doesn't know what its doing, it should be removed from earth.

:shrug:


I think the entire question lies in the "legal" definition of insane. They tend to define it as the inability to know what they were doing was wrong. That is where so many juries goof up. They think because a person has mental problems and "medically" are insane it is the same definition. Defense Lawyers, of course, play on this at trial and I really prosecutors would do a better job with explaining this to juries.

I really see as much sorrow at getting caught as anything else. Tears, sometimes and I think most times, by a defendant mean they are sorry that they are in court charged with a crime. Lack of planning on her part or the inability to tell consistant stories are what did her in, IMO. Not the desire to get caught.

I would also agree that one who murders his fellow man has a "medical" mental problem but no always a "legal" mental problem. That is one problem I have with the medical communitee when they deal with people with mental problems. Dr.s tend to think that if they get someone on meds and they can cope then they should be turned lose in society. Who is going to make sure they continue to take their meds? If they do not they are right back where they started from. The symptoms are treated, but not the problem. Sad part is, when they stop taking their meds the result is either they hurt themselves or they hurt others. Neither of which is the desired result.

[Justice Denied?]

I've seen comments below news reports where people put some blame on Sandra's mother for letting her roam from house to house. Other people totally disagree with the idea. I suppose I feel that what's done is done and that is not important now. But then I think about other mothers that are letting their children roam free at this moment and see that maybe Mrs Cantu could have done better.

There is a 5 year old girl that lives on my street that plays in everyone's yard with no supervision. She often comes to my door and asks to use the bathroom or she wants something to drink. I sometime see her mother leave the house, get into her car and drive off without looking for the child. I'm not sure what should be done.

This woman needs to be reported to Child Protective Services, especially if she is driving off and leaving the child alone in the neighborhood. This is gross neglect!

[tandarat]

I've seen comments below news reports where people put some blame on Sandra's mother for letting her roam from house to house. Other people totally disagree with the idea. I suppose I feel that what's done is done and that is not important now. But then I think about other mothers that are letting their children roam free at this moment and see that maybe Mrs Cantu could have done better.

There is a 5 year old girl that lives on my street that plays in everyone's yard with no supervision. She often comes to my door and asks to use the bathroom or she wants something to drink. I sometime see her mother leave the house, get into her car and drive off without looking for the child. I'm not sure what should be done.

Is the child being left alone, then? If there is no one at the house to supervise, and the girl is not being watched by a neighbor, etc., that is a CPS call, for sure. She should NOT be left without any adult supervision.

Oh, and I'm not talking about her playing outside with no one watching her. Not wise, but not illegal. I'm talking about no one HOME while the girl is out doing her thing. That probably crosses the realm of stupidity to illegal. That *could* result in a child neglect charge, at the very least.

Honestly, I can see why Sandra's mom let her out alone. She was 8, not 5, and she only "wandered" in their immediate neighborhood, i.e. the mobile home park, which everyone describes as "safe" and "child friendly". 8 is much older than 5, psychologically. Also, you have to give a child some freedom, and I see no problem letting an 8-year-old go 5 doors down (or even a block or two away) in a private, close-knit neighborhood. Of course, being the paranoid mom I am, I would be checking Megan's Law maps on a regular basis, and she would KNOW who not to get involved with. And, I'd have most likely pressed charges against Mister Smootchlips, but I don't know the details...I wasn't there. It may have been less creepy than it sounds. I certainly would have had a closer eye on her after that, but that was what...6 months ago? If she was a smart kid and was made aware of the dangers of pedophiles, I'd let her have some freedom again, but keep a close, unobtrusive eye on her.

My 5-year-old loved to play in the front of the house, but I always made sure I was either at the kitchen table or in the living room, with the front door open so I could see her. She knew what her boundaries were, and if she went past them, she came inside, no questions. If I needed to leave either or those rooms for ANY reason, I would tell her that I needed to go, where I was going, and it would be for no more than a minute or two. Any longer than that, and she was in the house. She also knew never to talk to anyone, and to stay away from the curb, so no one could stop a car and grab her. Now we live in a townhouse with a balcony in front and a yard in back. She can go out on the balcony without my supervision. She knows she is not allowed to go out in the parking/common area unless I am downstairs in the garage or otherwise near her and watching her.

By the time she is 8, she can be outside with friends without my supervision. If she has friends in our complex, she will be allowed to go to their house without me accompanying her. However, the rules will be that she is to go straight there, and call me when she gets there. She is not to play alone outside. She is to call when she leaves, and come straight home. Rules will be rules.

In a way, this tragedy has been good for her. She saw when Sandra was first reported missing at my mom's house during the news. She was scared, and asked about her almost daily. She was there when they announced finding her body. I waited to explain to her that Sandra was dead and had been murdered until they arrested MH, but she already guessed she was dead. She has been asking lots of questions about why someone would do this, and there are no easy answers, especially for a 5-year-old. But, she is more willing to hold my hand and stay close when we go on walks, now, and doesn't try to "sneak" out to play like she used to. She asks permission, and is happy when I go with her. I had to assure her that playing on the balcony was safe, and no one could take her from there.

Having kids is tough, and deciding to let them have some freedom is even tougher. I don't blame the mom....I don't see how she made any grave mistakes with an 8-year-old girl. It wasn't like she was walking alone a mile or two away, or walking alone at night, or anything like that. And who would have thought that the person who ended up doing this was dangerous? It was the mom of her daughter's friend...BEST friend by some reports! THAT is what affects me the most, I think, as a mother. Scary stuff.

[lorettalockhorn]

I've seen comments below news reports where people put some blame on Sandra's mother for letting her roam from house to house. Other people totally disagree with the idea. I suppose I feel that what's done is done and that is not important now. But then I think about other mothers that are letting their children roam free at this moment and see that maybe Mrs Cantu could have done better.

There is a 5 year old girl that lives on my street that plays in everyone's yard with no supervision. She often comes to my door and asks to use the bathroom or she wants something to drink. I sometime see her mother leave the house, get into her car and drive off without looking for the child. I'm not sure what should be done.

Have you reported this to child services? Or call 800/422-4453. (800 4 A Child) If you see the mother drive off and leave the child unattended, call 911 and ask LE to do a welfare check on the girl.

[lorettalockhorn]

Saw the funeral procession on HLN with the beautiful horsedrawn carriage. The local reporter says that accommodations are being made for 8,000 mourners at the public service.

They are also reporting the blade swallowing story and rumors of other incidents of child abuse and child pornography with the disclaimer that much of this hasn't been independently verified by CNN/HLN.

[Nawny]

I think the entire question lies in the "legal" definition of insane. They tend to define it as the inability to know what they were doing was wrong. That is where so many juries goof up. They think because a person has mental problems and "medically" are insane it is the same definition. Defense Lawyers, of course, play on this at trial and I really prosecutors would do a better job with explaining this to juries.

I really see as much sorrow at getting caught as anything else. Tears, sometimes and I think most times, by a defendant mean they are sorry that they are in court charged with a crime. Lack of planning on her part or the inability to tell consistant stories are what did her in, IMO. Not the desire to get caught.
I would also agree that one who murders his fellow man has a "medical" mental problem but not always a "legal" mental problem. That is one problem I have with the medical communitee when they deal with people with mental problems. Dr.s tend to think that if they get someone on meds and they can cope then they should be turned lose in society. Who is going to make sure they continue to take their meds? If they do not they are right back where they started from. The symptoms are treated, but not the problem. Sad part is, when they stop taking their meds the result is either they hurt themselves or they hurt others. Neither of which is the desired result.

Yes, yes and yes deacon. So the legal definition must be faulty, right? :shrug:

[Nawny]

Saw the funeral procession on HLN with the beautiful horsedrawn carriage. The local reporter says that accommodations are being made for 8,000 mourners at the public service.

They are also reporting the blade swallowing story and rumors of other incidents of child abuse and child pornography with the disclaimer that much of this hasn't been independently verified by CNN/HLN.

8,000 mourners? OMG! What a beautiful statement of love, normal compassion and humanity after only knowing this little girl for 2 weeks.. . I won't even make a mention of another family that took a dump on the memory of a child they professed to love, at her own memorial.

8,000 people got to give something to her worth in life. WOW!

Godspeed little Sandra:rose:

[One2Snoop]

Sandra Cantu buried today during private service

Family, friends and city leaders gathered for a private burial today for slain 8-year-old Tracy girl Sandra Cantu.

A horse-drawn carriage brought her tiny body from Fry Memorial Chapel to the Tracy Mausoleum shortly after noon today.

Sandra’s mother was “like a rock” during the service, said Tracy police Sgt. Tony Sheneman after the burial. TV news crews gathered outside the cemetery grounds to film as much of the service as they could from a distance.

A few dozen people attended, including several police officers who last week arrested a 28-year-old Sunday school teacher on suspicion of killing the little girl.

Melissa Chantel Huckaby was arraigned Tuesday on charges that she kidnapped, raped and then murdered Sandra on March 27.

Sandra lived in the same mobile home park as Huckaby with her mother, three older siblings and her grandparents. Surveillance footage that captures the girl’s last moments alive shows her skipping playfully toward Huckaby’s house, five doors away from her own home.

It was the last anyone ever saw of her, before her body was found 10 days later stuffed in a suitcase someone dumped in a manure-filled pond on a north Tracy dairy.

“She became an angel to the community,” said Tracy Unified School District Superintendent James Franco of Sandra, a Jacobsen Elementary School second-grader.

Her disappearance drew hundreds of volunteer searchers and nearly 20 agencies on the case. Photos of the blonde-haired brown-eyed girl were plastered on utility poles, car windows and bulletin boards all over Northern California.

It became a familiar face, especially to Tracy.

The national interest in her search brought and the sordid fascination sparked by recent charges against Huckaby of murder and rape likely mean a crowd of thousands will show up for her public memorial service on Thursday.

Organizers have prepared for as many as 8,000 guests, but there’s only enough parking for 500 cars.

The public service is scheduled for 1 p.m. Thursday at the West High School gym, 1775 W. Lowell Ave.

For information, call the memorial chapel at 836-1970.

http://www.tracypress.com/pages/full_story?article-Sandra%20Cantu%20buried%20today%20during%20private %20service%20=&page_label=home&id=2323288-Sandra+Cantu+buried+today+during+private+service&widget=push&instance=home_news_bullets&open=&

:rose: :rose: :rose: :rose: :rose: :rose: :rose: :rose: :rose:

[Nawny]

Sandra Cantu buried today during private service

Family, friends and city leaders gathered for a private burial today for slain 8-year-old Tracy girl Sandra Cantu.

A horse-drawn carriage brought her tiny body from Fry Memorial Chapel to the Tracy Mausoleum shortly after noon today.

Sandra’s mother was “like a rock” during the service, said Tracy police Sgt. Tony Sheneman after the burial. TV news crews gathered outside the cemetery grounds to film as much of the service as they could from a distance.

A few dozen people attended, including several police officers who last week arrested a 28-year-old Sunday school teacher on suspicion of killing the little girl.

Melissa Chantel Huckaby was arraigned Tuesday on charges that she kidnapped, raped and then murdered Sandra on March 27.

Sandra lived in the same mobile home park as Huckaby with her mother, three older siblings and her grandparents. Surveillance footage that captures the girl’s last moments alive shows her skipping playfully toward Huckaby’s house, five doors away from her own home.

It was the last anyone ever saw of her, before her body was found 10 days later stuffed in a suitcase someone dumped in a manure-filled pond on a north Tracy dairy.

“She became an angel to the community,” said Tracy Unified School District Superintendent James Franco of Sandra, a Jacobsen Elementary School second-grader.

Her disappearance drew hundreds of volunteer searchers and nearly 20 agencies on the case. Photos of the blonde-haired brown-eyed girl were plastered on utility poles, car windows and bulletin boards all over Northern California.

It became a familiar face, especially to Tracy.

The national interest in her search brought and the sordid fascination sparked by recent charges against Huckaby of murder and rape likely mean a crowd of thousands will show up for her public memorial service on Thursday.

Organizers have prepared for as many as 8,000 guests, but there’s only enough parking for 500 cars.

The public service is scheduled for 1 p.m. Thursday at the West High School gym, 1775 W. Lowell Ave.

For information, call the memorial chapel at 836-1970.

http://www.tracypress.com/pages/full_story?article-Sandra%20Cantu%20buried%20today%20during%20private %20service%20=&page_label=home&id=2323288-Sandra+Cantu+buried+today+during+private+service&widget=push&instance=home_news_bullets&open=&

:rose: :rose: :rose: :rose: :rose: :rose: :rose: :rose: :rose:

The kind of send off Sandra got is so very, very important to those that are forced to say goodbye. The way she is being memorialized is tender, beautiful and well, perfect!
This is the way it should be for those children who leave us too soon. All of them.

:rose: Have fun in heaven Sandra!

[One2Snoop]

I've seen comments below news reports where people put some blame on Sandra's mother for letting her roam from house to house. Other people totally disagree with the idea. I suppose I feel that what's done is done and that is not important now. But then I think about other mothers that are letting their children roam free at this moment and see that maybe Mrs Cantu could have done better.

There is a 5 year old girl that lives on my street that plays in everyone's yard with no supervision. She often comes to my door and asks to use the bathroom or she wants something to drink. I sometime see her mother leave the house, get into her car and drive off without looking for the child. I'm not sure what should be done.

This woman needs to be reported to Child Protective Services, especially if she is driving off and leaving the child alone in the neighborhood. This is gross neglect!

Is the child being left alone, then? If there is no one at the house to supervise, and the girl is not being watched by a neighbor, etc., that is a CPS call, for sure. She should NOT be left without any adult supervision.
snipped for length.

Have you reported this to child services? Or call 800/422-4453. (800 4 A Child) If you see the mother drive off and leave the child unattended, call 911 and ask LE to do a welfare check on the girl.

You guys shouldn't believe a word Lodi says. :no: There's a reason he's been here under 6, 7, 8 nics or more. I've found that he's a liar and will do anything to bring attention to himself. I wouldn't believe anything he posts without some sort of documentation.
I'm sure I can find a few others to come here and back me up on this.

Just thought you should know. :cool:

[Its just me]

You guys shouldn't believe a word Lodi says. :no: There's a reason he's been here under 6, 7, 8 nics or more. I've found that he's a liar and will do anything to bring attention to himself. I wouldn't believe anything he posts without some sort of documentation.
I'm sure I can find a few others to come here and back me up on this.

Just thought you should know. :cool:

Yep Lodi has been known to tell a lie. He has been so many nics on the Tara Boards I have lost count of the ones I know....there is no telling how many I don't know. The hog wash he posted on Tara's Boards is beyond disgusting....so bad I reported him to LE. I'm not trying to destroy Lodi's reputation....he did that himself. fep

[lorettalockhorn]

You guys shouldn't believe a word Lodi says. :no: There's a reason he's been here under 6, 7, 8 nics or more. I've found that he's a liar and will do anything to bring attention to himself. I wouldn't believe anything he posts without some sort of documentation.
I'm sure I can find a few others to come here and back me up on this.

Just thought you should know. :cool:

I've seen some of that myself. And in this case, it's so obvious for someone supposedly tuned in to crime to know what to do. But hey, some fidiot might actually need to know, so I always err on the side of the child and take this kind of thing seriously (even if it's an exercise by an ASW).

[Nawny]

You guys shouldn't believe a word Lodi says. :no: There's a reason he's been here under 6, 7, 8 nics or more. I've found that he's a liar and will do anything to bring attention to himself. I wouldn't believe anything he posts without some sort of documentation.
I'm sure I can find a few others to come here and back me up on this.

Just thought you should know. :cool:

Thanks snoop. At least the unsupervised little girl didn't
rearrange his furniture. :(

[crimeinterest]

First post here but I lurk often...I read the entire thread and hope I didn't miss this if it was brought up...but I heard in a video from KCLA that in documentation relating to MH's ex-husband it says one of the reasons for the divorce was he was interesting in things including child abduction????

It's at the end of this "body language" report....they show the documents...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LVAJ-u9wMg&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fnews%2Egoogle%2Ecom%2Fnews%3Fq%3 Dsandra%2520cantu%26rls%3Dcom%2Emicrosoft%3Aen%2Du s%3AIE%2DSearchBox%26oe%3DUTF%2D8%26sourceid%3Die7&feature=player_embedded

[lorettalockhorn]

First post here but I lurk often...I read the entire thread and hope I didn't miss this if it was brought up...but I heard in a video from KCLA that in documentation relating to MH's ex-husband it says one of the reasons for the divorce was he was interesting in things including child abduction????

It's at the end of this "body language" report....they show the documents...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LVAJ-u9wMg&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fnews%2Egoogle%2Ecom%2Fnews%3Fq%3 Dsandra%2520cantu%26rls%3Dcom%2Emicrosoft%3Aen%2Du s%3AIE%2DSearchBox%26oe%3DUTF%2D8%26sourceid%3Die7&feature=player_embedded

Thanks for the link! :seeya: Love the body language analysis. HLN mentioned the complaints in the divorce proceedings, but didn't go into depth. MH seems very damaged to me.

[BADSIDEEFEX]

Maybe melissa knew this guy? How did he get bail? He must have alot of money. He probably drugged his victims also. Maybe they teamed up when his business was taken. People like this don't stop what they do just because they are caught. They usually find another way to continue.






Local
More women accuse doctor in Tracy of molestation
The Associated Press
2009-04-14 04:49:53.0
Current rank: Not ranked

STOCKTON, Calif. -
More women have come forward alleging a plastic surgeon sexually assaulted them at his Tracy office.

San Joaquin County prosecutors filed a revised criminal complaint Monday accusing 46-year-old Peter Chi of molesting 64 women. Chi was charged with sexually assaulting eight women after he was arrested in February.

Chi has already been arraigned on counts of sexual battery and rape by a foreign object and is expected to appear in court Tuesday on the additional charges.

The doctor operated Beauty Renewed in Tracy and also worked from a Stockton office.

He has been ordered to stop practicing and has surrendered his medical license while the case continues.

He is currently free on $100,000 bail.



I found out this guy's business is less than 1/10th of a mile from the mobile home park and just down the street from the Food Maxx where Melissa worked. He will not be on the registered sex offenders list because he has not been to trial yet.
If she did all of these things on her own, then like I said she is just a bully who enjoys hurting helpless children. Maybe past abuse has made her want someone hurt as bad as she hurt. I don't think it is mental illness. I wonder what the children in her class think of her. Do they say she was mean or anything? She never allowed her own child out of the house (just like Sybil's mother) because she knows there are monsters like herself out there.

Maybe she teamed up with a sex offender that lives near to or goes to the church. These people often seek forgiveness.

[lorettalockhorn]

From the Orange County records:

Case Summary
Case Number Title Filing Date Category Type
05D000448 HUCKABY V HUCKABY 01/19/2005 DISSO WITHOUT CHILDREN DISSO WITHOUT CHILD

Check Marital Status This Case Assigned To The Honorable: WALTER POSEY


Participants
Results 1 - 4 of 4000000000000<<Previous 1
No Name Type Assoc Start Date
1 MELISSA . HUCKABY PETITIONER 01/19/2005
2 JOHN . HUCKABY RESPONDENT 01/19/2005
3 COUNTY OF ORANGE INTERVENOR 08/22/2006
4 DEPARTMENT OF CHILD SUPPORT SERVICES ATTORNEY FOR INTERVENOR 3 08/22/2006

Hearings
Results 1 - 3 of 3000000000000<<Previous 1
Date Time Description Judge Dept
08/13/2007 14:00:00 MOTION RE MODIFICATION BARRY MICHAELSON L52
05/07/2007 14:30:00 MOTION RE MODIFICATION BARRY MICHAELSON L52
09/09/2005 13:15:00 DEFAULT NANCY POLLARD L64

Register of Actions

Results 1 - 10 of 220000000000<<Previous 1 2 3 Next>>
Docket Code Filing Date Filing Party
MINUTE ORDER 08/13/2007
MINUTES AND/OR ORDER OR JUDGMENT - CONT. 05/07/2007
NOTICE TO PRODUCE AND APPEAR 03/12/2007 COUNTY OF ORANGE
MOTION RE: MODIFICATION 03/12/2007 COUNTY OF ORANGE
NOTICE REGARDING PAYMENT OF SUPPORT 08/22/2006 COUNTY OF ORANGE
OTHER MISCELLANEOUS DOCUMENT 09/22/2005
STIPULATION FOR TEMP JUDGE 09/09/2005
NOTICE OF ENTRY OF JUDGMENT 09/13/2005 MELISSA HUCKABY
INCOME & EXPENSE DECLARATION 09/09/2005 MELISSA HUCKABY
ORDER-OTHER 09/09/2005

Accessed from the OC.gov site:

http://egov.ocgov.com/ocgov/Services/Children%20&%20Family%20Services

This order states that the case was a dissolution without children. :shrug:

Interesting article:

http://www.contracostatimes.com/ci_12133607?source=most_emailed

[tandarat]

I found out this guy's business is less than 1/10th of a mile from the mobile home park and just down the street from the Food Maxx where Melissa worked. He will not be on the registered sex offenders list because he has not been to trial yet.
If she did all of these things on her own, then like I said she is just a bully who enjoys hurting helpless children. Maybe past abuse has made her want someone hurt as bad as she hurt. I don't think it is mental illness. I wonder what the children in her class think of her. Do they say she was mean or anything? She never allowed her own child out of the house (just like Sybil's mother) because she knows there are monsters like herself out there.

Maybe she teamed up with a sex offender that lives near to or goes to the church. These people often seek forgiveness.

This guy is accused of attacking adult women, not prepubescent girls. Different MO. Still a creep, but chances are he isn't into little girls.

[Amy]

I don't until more than one confirms it. I trust no one. When they are wrong, those are doozies of wrong...

What I have found in these high-profile cases is that, because each network, reporter wants to have the "scoop" on things....they sometimes rush with a report without checking it out. I have a problem with "sources" because what the sources say, especially if they are family and friends (or enemies) of the victim or suspect is not always the truth. Maybe their perception of something, but usually something someone heard from someone, etc etc etc.

That is why I pretty much pay attention to what LE says, and OBVIOUSLY take the attorneys (especially defense attorneys) with a grain of salt. When LE confirms what a "source" has said, then I believe it.

[deacon]

Yes, yes and yes deacon. So the legal definition must be faulty, right? :shrug:

No, the way juries apply the definition is. If one is capable of telling right from wrong they are responsible for what they do. We, as a society, tend to try to get away from responsibility for our actions. If you don't agree, look at the companies that are in trouble now and how the "leaders", and I use that word losely, of those companies are making excuses and not taking responsibilities. We need to take responsibility for what we do or do not do.

[Nawny]

No, the way juries apply the definition is. If one is capable of telling right from wrong they are responsible for what they do. We, as a society, tend to try to get away from responsibility for our actions. If you don't agree, look at the companies that are in trouble now and how the "leaders", and I use that word losely, of those companies are making excuses and not taking responsibilities. We need to take responsibility for what we do or do not do.

I know you're right about the definition of insane. :) I've been known to argue that definition because my definition of insane is "Someone can be capable of understanding the definition of right and wrong, but not care. To me, that is insane." I'm sure I'm like everyone else here, but yes, I do understand the law's point of reference. I just don't like it. I also think insane child murderers should NOT be accepted and hospitalized. They should be eliminated. I'm not religeous per se but isn't there something in the bible about that? "If thine eye offends you, pluck it out?" Then the other one about an eye for an eye? How's that work Deacon? It isn't like, Hmmm, okay you took an eye, so we will give you the 3 hots and a cot... and lots of snacks.:no:

Like I said, they shoot horses for less.

Good morning :seeya:

[Nawny]

I don't until more than one confirms it. I trust no one. When they are wrong, those are doozies of wrong...

Mornin jav!
What was your take on Padilla's statements last night on NG? He sure sounded like he know exactly when, where, why, what time, and how Caylee met her maker.

(Be back later to read your good stuff)

[lorettalockhorn]

I didn't like his comment about Zenaida and her next "level", past cleaning houses, was child care. Sounds like something Cindy would say! How does he know what her hopes, skills, and dreams were?

But, as for his opinions...he was only briefly on the inside, and he's not there now. I kind of give him only slightly more credence than our theorizing, and that because he actually was on the inside at one point. He's got the same info we've got. Hey, put Danagher on one night, heh? ;) It just strikes me as a child star who just keeps working it, you know?

Did you not crack up when they added dog barks every time they talked about Zanny's dog, and the memememe...me all over the screen while Casey was talking.

ETA: ooopps! I think we're in the wrong board, buddy! I wish Padilla would talk on the Cantu case...did you hear about the controversy with the family's first spokesperson?

Padilla almost cracks me up the way he speaks his theories with such authority; admit that I rarely listen to his details, LE will have a timeline nailed down by the time they haul Casey's lardass into court. And hey, by then maybe we'll know about fingerprints on the duct tape.

As for LP disparaging Zenaida's goals and aspirations, something tells me they're more admirable than his half-baked idea to pull Caylee's remains out of the Little Econ and hold up her skull for the media to ooh and aah over his sleuthing abilities. He's pathetic.

Floved the gimmicks NG used last night to mock Casey. It was nice to laugh during the 7pm hour instead of swearing at the TV.

[Justice Denied?]

Sandra Cantu buried today during private service

Family, friends and city leaders gathered for a private burial today for slain 8-year-old Tracy girl Sandra Cantu.

A horse-drawn carriage brought her tiny body from Fry Memorial Chapel to the Tracy Mausoleum shortly after noon today.

Sandra’s mother was “like a rock” during the service, said Tracy police Sgt. Tony Sheneman after the burial. TV news crews gathered outside the cemetery grounds to film as much of the service as they could from a distance.

A few dozen people attended, including several police officers who last week arrested a 28-year-old Sunday school teacher on suspicion of killing the little girl.

Melissa Chantel Huckaby was arraigned Tuesday on charges that she kidnapped, raped and then murdered Sandra on March 27.

Sandra lived in the same mobile home park as Huckaby with her mother, three older siblings and her grandparents. Surveillance footage that captures the girl’s last moments alive shows her skipping playfully toward Huckaby’s house, five doors away from her own home.

It was the last anyone ever saw of her, before her body was found 10 days later stuffed in a suitcase someone dumped in a manure-filled pond on a north Tracy dairy.

“She became an angel to the community,” said Tracy Unified School District Superintendent James Franco of Sandra, a Jacobsen Elementary School second-grader.

Her disappearance drew hundreds of volunteer searchers and nearly 20 agencies on the case. Photos of the blonde-haired brown-eyed girl were plastered on utility poles, car windows and bulletin boards all over Northern California.

It became a familiar face, especially to Tracy.

The national interest in her search brought and the sordid fascination sparked by recent charges against Huckaby of murder and rape likely mean a crowd of thousands will show up for her public memorial service on Thursday.

Organizers have prepared for as many as 8,000 guests, but there’s only enough parking for 500 cars.

The public service is scheduled for 1 p.m. Thursday at the West High School gym, 1775 W. Lowell Ave.

For information, call the memorial chapel at 836-1970.

http://www.tracypress.com/pages/full_story?article-Sandra%20Cantu%20buried%20today%20during%20private %20service%20=&page_label=home&id=2323288-Sandra+Cantu+buried+today+during+private+service&widget=push&instance=home_news_bullets&open=&

:rose: :rose: :rose: :rose: :rose: :rose: :rose: :rose: :rose:

HLN is planning to broadcast live at 4pm EDT, 3pm CDT for those who want to watch.

[lorettalockhorn]

HLN is planning to broadcast live at 4pm EDT, 3pm CDT for those who want to watch.

Thanks for the heads up!

[One2Snoop]

Memorial service on live feed -


http://www.news10.net/news/liveonline/

[One2Snoop]

updated 14 minutes ago

Her life over at 8, a slain girl is remembered

(CNN) -- Thousands of mourners filled a Tracy, California, high school gym Thursday to remember slain 8-year-old Sandra Renee Cantu.

The little girl made national headlines after she went missing March 27 from a mobile home park in Tracy where she lived with her family.

She was on her way to a friend's home and her playful skipping down an alley was caught by a surveillance camera. Police later found her body stuffed into a suitcase and submerged in a pond at a nearby dairy farm.

Photos of Sandra, flowers and stuffed animals covered the front of the stage. Family members, friends and state dignitaries memorialized the child during a ceremony that lasted just over an hour.

The printed program called the memorial service "A Celebration of Life," and organizers said they hoped the service would help ease the pain the community has suffered since Sandra's disappearance.

"We are left with the haunting image of her skipping on the streets of Tracy. But today she is skipping on the streets of gold, into the arms of a loving God", said Brent Ives, mayor of Tracy.

Cindy Sasser, principal at Jacobsen Elementary School told mourners, "We should all strive to be like Sandra - always smiling, wanting to help, to look out for others and to be caring."

The service included a video that showcased some of the family's favorite photos.

People from across California attended, filling the gymnasium, cafeteria and the football stadium at West High School.

Melissa Huckaby, 28, a Sunday school teacher who lived in the same mobile home park as Sandra's family, has been charged with murder, kidnapping, the performance of a lewd and lascivious act on a child under 14, and rape by instrument.

If convicted, she would face the death penalty or life in prison without parole, San Joaquin County District Attorney James Willett said this week.

A private memorial service for Sandra was held Wednesday. Her casket, signed by classmates, was taken to a nearby burial site by a horse-drawn carriage

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/04/16/slain.girl.service/index.html

[old_soul]

I missed the funeral service yesterday, but...............

Today's memorial tribute to this beautiful little girl was exactly what it should have been..The people of Tracy are good people...2500+ all there to remember her memory and pray.

RIP Sandra :rose: http://i43.tinypic.com/29uyd1e.jpg

[crimeinterest]

Lawless said she and her husband, Pastor Clifford Lane Lawless, visited for the first time with Huckaby, 28, at the San Joaquin County Jail for 40 minutes Monday evening. That’s when Huckaby told her grandparents she was not guilty.

http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090414/A_NEWS/90414006

[Amy]

http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090414/A_NEWS/90414006

Here we go!!! I hope the Lawless' @ least have the class to just stay out of the news--a good way to respond to reporters is "no comment." That way, nothing they say can be misconstrued.

I notice the grandma says MH hasn't talked to an attorney yet, but that is kind of not correct.....she has had a court appointed attorney @ her side. Surely there were SOME words exchanged.

[Nawny]

I didn't like his comment about Zenaida and her next "level", past cleaning houses, was child care. Sounds like something Cindy would say! How does he know what her hopes, skills, and dreams were?

But, as for his opinions...he was only briefly on the inside, and he's not there now. I kind of give him only slightly more credence than our theorizing, and that because he actually was on the inside at one point. He's got the same info we've got. Hey, put Danagher on one night, heh? ;) It just strikes me as a child star who just keeps working it, you know?

Did you not crack up when they added dog barks every time they talked about Zanny's dog, and the memememe...me all over the screen while Casey was talking.

ETA: ooopps! I think we're in the wrong board, buddy! I wish Padilla would talk on the Cantu case...did you hear about the controversy with the family's first spokesperson?

I
ll take this to the caylee board. Can I do that?

(I knew you'd say something poetic) I've been out of my body all day... lol! ala, wrong board! Pisces needs no hagnog!

[wind149]

I could only watch part of this on Mike and I started crying! And I am so pissed off that that evil b*tch was COURT MANDATED to go to mental health counseling and apparently was not going, see an insanity defense on the horizon and while I think she is a whack job, she is a sexual predator and while in hell was she still around children? Somebody's head is gonna roll on this, there has to be something she said to a therapist that gave credence to the court ordered counseling and no one sees that she was going? The pass the buck, fall through the crack bulls*it will be the whine!! And you can't tell me her own family did not see that she was nuts and still let her teach??? I gotta a feeling Grandpa will not be the preacher after the dust and grief settles, then the anger is gonna real kick in and he will be asked to leave, people will not want to go to that church, especially if the rape and murder took place in it!!! Would you guys go in there?

Today, is a sad day for me. I was finally able to bury Nyja, actually my neighbor Jason did the deed, but after she was buried, I cried for awhile, and then I placed a piece of slate that I have with a picture of a butterfly on it and I put her name in it and her date of her death with was 12/19/08 and the day I adopted her was 12/11/91, I still miss her so much, I miss her little face breathing tuna breath in my face, her sleeping on top of me, and she liked to head butt and to wash my face, I miss her playing with her favorite toys, I miss watching her enjoy a bowl of ice cream, she dug all dairy products, lose her mind over cheese!!! We placed her next to my landlord's horse that I had put down on Sept, I loved my Charley too and I am thinking good thoughts, she is with her beloved brother Rasta and Charley is with his buddy Cash! And these are pets and I loved them with all my heart and soul and I can't imagine murdering a child!! Nyja was my child and I would have given my life to save hers and this b*tch murders and rapes a sweet little girl who had a good life ahead of her, in a way, she reminds me of Jessie Lunsford, the long hair, the brown eyes, the love for Hannah Montana, it is sick that both of these sweeties were raped and murdered by scum that just used that as a sex toy!! And then murdered them after they were done to cover up their intent, which were the rapes. I hope this scum b*tch gets the DP just like I want to see Casey get it too!!!

[Amy]

Sorry to hear about Nyja--may she rest in peace with her friends.

For pet-lovers and pets:

http://www.rainbowsbridge.com/Poem.htm

[Nawny]

Sorry to hear about Nyja--may she rest in peace with her friends.

For pet-lovers and pets:

http://www.rainbowsbridge.com/Poem.htm

You beat me to it Amy :)

God love ya wind,,,,,,,,,,,,, God love ya.
For Nyja. :rose::rose::rose::rose::rose:

[lorettalockhorn]

>>and she liked to head butt and to wash my face

Wind, so sorry for your loss. Your Nyja was marking you all for herself!

And you're right it's hard to believe that any human can have so little regard for another, let alone a trusting one. You have to wonder what in the world made the judge order MH into any kind of counseling over a theft. She must have admitted to or exhibited something at least slightly bizarre for him to mandate something that relatively unusual. How her family can wax on about her personality and character is unbelievable (not to mention in poor taste). IMO

Would not want to attend a church after a murder unless there was some sort of cleansing ritual. Is there such a thing?? But I've been a member of the same church for over fifty years; confirmed and married there and My Little Love was baptized and confirmed there. I'm very attached to her and comfortable there. Wonder if that little Baptist church that Lawless pastors has a long history? Some lunatic will probably torch it if it was the actual crime scene.

Didn't watch all of the memorial, but just seeing that beautiful horsedrawn carriage with that tiny pink coffin inside is enough to make me squall like an infant every time I see it. RIP Sandra.

[old_soul]

Nyja knew how much you loved her, and she's forever a part of you. Your wonderful memories will always be right there, in your heart....

I'm sorry.
Nyja :rose: and a rose for you too Wind :rose:
http://i43.tinypic.com/9lj144.jpg

[old_soul]

How dare they!:flamemad:

Huckaby's court appointed atty wants to exhume Sandra's body to aid in her defense! (JVM tonight). Other TH defense atty's say he has no choice in asking for this.

Oh, they couldn't ask to review her before she was put to rest?! Why not when the crazy b***h was cowering in court the other day!

How can they do this to this family??!! The judge has not ruled yes or no, but the TH say he probably will allow this.

I say let her rest in peace..Sandra and her family have been through ENOUGH!
:mad::flamemad::cuss:

[One2Snoop]

How dare they!:flamemad:

Huckaby's court appointed atty wants to exhume Sandra's body to aid in her defense! (JVM tonight). Other TH defense atty's say he has no choice in asking for this.

Oh, they couldn't ask to review her before she was put to rest?! Why not when the crazy b***h was cowering in court the other day!

How can they do this to this family??!! The judge has not ruled yes or no, but the TH say he probably will allow this.

I say let her rest in peace..Sandra and her family have been through ENOUGH!
:mad::flamemad::cuss:

:eek: I agree this is awful! I hope the judge doesn't allow it. :flamemad:

[One2Snoop]

Defense wants Sandra Cantu exhumed for second autopsy

On the same day that thousands mourned the loss of Sandra Cantu, the public defender of alleged murderer Melissa Huckaby asked to have the 8-year-old’s body exhumed for a second autopsy.

In a report filed yesterday from the San Joaquin County Superior Court, defense attorney Sam Behar called for a second autopsy so Huckaby can defend herself against allegations of rape. According to the report, Behar’s office hired Dr. Terri Haddix as its pathologist on Wednesday to perform the proposed autopsy.

According to the minutes from yesterday’s hearing at the Stockton courthouse, Judge William Murray Jr. “admonished” the defense for asking for another autopsy. Murray did not make a ruling because he is not the case’s assigned judge, said Stephanie Bohrer, the court’s spokeswoman.

Judge Terrence Van Oss has been assigned the case but is on vacation this week, Bohrer said. The minutes also noted that Huckaby was not at the hearing.

Further arraignment was set for April 24, when a ruling is expected.

“Dr. Haddix informed me, and I have no reason to doubt, that, if given the proper access to Ms. Cantu’s body, she would be able to complete an examination in no more than a week,” Behar’s report read. “I believe and allege such an examination is extremely crucial and material to Ms. Huckaby’s defense.”

An autopsy was already performed by the county coroner’s office shortly after Cantu was found in a dairy lagoon in north Tracy on April 6. “Genital trauma” was found on Cantu’s body, a claim Behar wants to examine. Results from the San Joaquin County Coroner’s autopsy are expected to be made public in upcoming weeks.

Cantu was buried at a private service on Wednesday at Tracy Mausoleum. Behar sent orders to Fry Memorial Chapel and the county’s sheriff’s office asking for compliance.

“Ms. Cantu’s body is of such material evidence and that, without immediate intervention by this court, her defense will be prejudiced,” the report read.

http://www.tracypress.com/pages/full_story?page_label=home&id=2339037-Defense+wants+Sandra+Cantu+exhumed+for+second+auto psy&article-Defense%20wants%20Sandra%20Cantu%20exhumed%20for%2 0second%20autopsy%20=&widget=push&instance=home_news_bullets&open=&

[One2Snoop]

Defense request to disinter body on hold

STOCKTON - A judge refused to rule on a request Thursday by Melissa Huckaby's attorney to have 8-year-old Sandra Cantu's body removed from her Tracy mausoleum so the defense could conduct its own autopsy.

San Joaquin County Deputy Public Defender Sam Behar's request - drawing the judge's reproach and sharp opposition from the prosecutor - unfolded in a Stockton courtroom the same afternoon thousands of mourners gathered in Tracy to remember Sandra's short life.

San Joaquin County Superior Court Presiding Judge William J. Murray Jr. said he would not make a final determination on Behar's motion, because that decision rests with the judge assigned to the case.

Murray said he was disappointed Behar approached him and not Superior Court Judge Terrence Van Oss, who has been assigned to take up Huckaby's case next Friday.

Behar said Van Oss is not on the bench this week, and he also expects Van Oss to dismiss himself because of a conflicting case with Huckaby's prosecutor. Behar said he couldn't wait and had no choice but to ask Murray.

"Every hour is critical," Behar told the judge, adding that he's worried Sandra's body is deteriorating. "Any delay will be prejudicial to my client."

Sandra disappeared from Tracy's Orchard Estates Mobile Home Park on March 27. Farm workers found her body April 6, stuffed in a black suitcase and dumped in an irrigation pond a couple of miles north of Tracy. Investigators said they believe she was killed just hours after she disappeared.

Behar's request came the day after he was assigned to represent Huckaby, the 28-year-old Tracy woman charged with murder and the special circumstances of kidnapping, lewd and lascivious acts on a child, and rape with a foreign object - charges that make her eligible for the death penalty if convicted.

Sandra's body was placed in a casket even before Huckaby's arrest. Behar, who was later assigned to Huckaby's case, implied that the autopsy was conducted without Huckaby's interests being represented.

Most homicide cases involve a single, independent pathologist's report such as the one performed by the San Joaquin County Coroner's Office.

Behar said in the 14-page request that he wants his own analysis of "genital trauma" Sandra allegedly sustained that supports the lewd and lascivious acts and sexual penetration charges.

Behar seeks to have the Sheriff's Office send officials to Fry Memorial Chapel, who would then take custody of Sandra's body, which was entombed Wednesday at the Tracy Mausoleum.

The Sheriff's Office would "preserve" and "deliver" the body to the Coroner's Office "with all due haste" to prevent further deterioration. Behar's defense pathologist would examine and then return the body to Fry's or Sandra's family, the court motion requests.

"In this case, Ms. Cantu's body is of such material evidence and that, without immediate intervention by this court, her defense will be prejudiced," Behar's motion says.

This is the last chance Huckaby's defense pathologist will ever have an opportunity to refute the people's case, the motion says. Huckaby was not in court for the hearing. Behar declined to comment further outside court.

Put off by Murray, Behar has two options: to make his case before the state's 3rd District Court of Appeal or to wait for next Friday's scheduled hearing in Stockton.

San Joaquin County Deputy District Attorney Thomas Testa argued against Behar, saying he needed time to prepare a written response, consult with Tracy police detectives and his pathologist and give Sandra's family a chance to be in court and state their own objection to disturbing the girl's remains.

"It's obscene. I'm outraged by it," Testa told the judge. "Let me have my detectives here, my doctor here, (Sandra's) family here."

Murray, in declining to rule on Behar's motion, said he did some research on the law before the brief hearing, and the arguments Behar cited did not convince him he has the right to remove Sandra's body from the mausoleum.

"If I thought your legal arguments were compelling, I might be of a different thought," Murray said. "But I'm not."

http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090417/A_NEWS/904170320

[One2Snoop]

Transcripts shed light on Melissa Huckaby's mental health

By The Record
April 17, 2009 6:54 PM

STOCKTON – Melissa Huckaby told her mental health worker she was doing “very, very well” less than three weeks before allegedly murdering 8-year-old Sandra Cantu, say court transcripts The Record obtained today.

Huckaby’s apparent progress in the mental health program abruptly ended when she missed an April 3 hearing before San Joaquin County Superior Court Judge Richard Vlavianos. By then, Sandra had vanished.

In Huckaby’s last appearance in mental health court on March 6, her counselor reported that Huckaby told her “she’s doing great.”

“You know, we really work on some deep, prudent issues,” San Joaquin County mental health worker Margie Valdez told the judge. “She really participates with everything, and that’s really good for her. I want to see her come back in a month.”

The transcript and public court records do not reveal Huckaby’s mental disorder. Two court-appointed doctors had agreed on her mental illness. She came into the court system for an arrest on Nov. 3 for a petty theft with a prior from a Tracy Target store.

http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090417/A_NEWS/90417009

[lorettalockhorn]

Missed JVM, but I thought I understood the THs on Prime News to be of the opinion that the exhumation would not take place. Hoping they're right.

Also heard on HLN that Johnny Huckaby was interviewed on a morning show re: MH's mental health and on NG that's he has filed for custody. Isn't his own fitness in question? Is he qualified to speak on Melissa's emotional stability? Doesn't he only have supervised visitation, and if it's been years since he's seen Melissa, doesn't that possibly indicate that he hasn't been in touch with the daughter? Prime News also reported that friends say she was very depressed, possibly manic depressive. NOW they tell us.

[Big Sister]

I'm sure that the defense has been supplied with all photographs and autopsy reports which they have examined in minute detail. They will present their findings to court, and as repulsive as the idea of exhuming this child's body is, defense will probably prevail. In a highly-publicized case as this, quite a few of the defense's requests will be granted in order to prevent throwing out the verdict on appeal. IMO.

[lorettalockhorn]

Big Sister, you could be right. You have to wonder why these questions weren't addressed before Sandra was entombed. And apparently this is in order to fight the rape charges. Okay, so Huckaby admits killing Sandra but she had already been raped? Should be interesting as to what kind of timeline the defense comes up with for that possibility.

As unsettling as the thought of exhumation is, we have to remember that we might ask our own attorneys for the same motion if we were on trial, especially for murder one.

[wind149]

Thank you from the bottom of my heart for all your kind words for me and my baby, I still mourn Rasta and he has been dead now for 5 years and he lived to be 22 and Nyja lived to be 17, so you all can see how well they were treated to live long lives as cats normally don't live past 20 and Rasta defined those odds, in fact, he was still hunting micers as we called them, when we moved here 2003, the trailer park was off the beaten track so I let them go outside and he would be bringing Mama home "gifties" moles and mice. It was in June of 04 that I realized he was going downhill and the vet said that his kidneys were probably going so it was decided that I would keep him comfortable till the end which came on August 29th, he died in my arms with Nyja right beside us and she licked him for the longest time, it was like she was trying to bring him back to life as they always washed each other and I was in the worst pain I had ever felt and then four years later, I go through this with Nyja and this time it was my other cat Phaedra Leigh that washed her and cried for days looking for her, worst Xmas of my life, so today was bittersweet and very sad but I know that they are waiting for me on the other side and we will be together again.

With that said, I almost puked when I heard NG say that the defense wanted to exhume the body? What the frig for?? They had what a week to ask for a second autopsy?? This is as bad as Bozo wanting a second autopsy, Caylee was nothing but bones and Sandra, being in the water probably heated up the decomp process unless it was cold water but in CA I doubt any water is cold unless it is SF Bay. What do they think they are going to find, evidence pointing to anyone but this b*tch??? Please! And today, I found out that she had been charged with theft, guess I missed that and the courts wanted her to get mental health counseling? I realize some people are klepto's and in some cases the courts will impose MH counseling, but she only had one theft charge?? Something she said mandated it for sure. Can you imagine the pain her mama must feel today knowing the defense wants to dig up her baby??? The chief of police did say that no parents have called to advise that their children might or have been a victim of hers, which is good news, so what made her want to rape and murder this child? LE has not said whether or not they found child porn on her computer and no indication she molested her own daughter as of yet, but do you guys remember last year that scumbag woman from MI was hiring out her 7 year old daughter for sex? She advertised on the net and they busted her at a motel where the child was found dressed in hooker clothes and this whole state was wildly pissed off!!

Even Oakland County was at a loss for words, they had dealt with pedophiles and prostitutes and Johns but nothing like that and the Sheriff during a news conference was almost crying when he was telling us that woman was making big bucks letting pigs have sex with her child and guess what? This scumbag had five other children which were taken away along with the other child and she went to prison for 20 years and they busted a few of said pigs so I am wondering if MH was doing this to her child? And that loser looking guy she was dating that lives in the park? LE IMO need to take a second look at him, he gives me the creepouts, he looks like a babyraper!! Sooner or later the autopsy results will be made public and maybe a motive will come to light, but even without these, everyone knows this child died painfully, I am betting she strangled her and I do not ever want to know what she used to rape her!

[Amy]

Big Sister, you could be right. You have to wonder why these questions weren't addressed before Sandra was entombed. And apparently this is in order to fight the rape charges. Okay, so Huckaby admits killing Sandra but she had already been raped? Should be interesting as to what kind of timeline the defense comes up with for that possibility.

As unsettling as the thought of exhumation is, we have to remember that we might ask our own attorneys for the same motion if we were on trial, especially for murder one.

The attorney says Sandra was already in a casket by the time he was assigned to the case--well, she wasn't BURIED @ the time the charges including the rape stuff was presented, was she? Seems she was BURIED the day before the memorial service? Come on, couldn't the guy have had enough sense AS SOON AS HE GOT ON THE CASE, rape charges or not, to have asked for his own autopsy? It seems in this day and age, the defense asking for their own autopsy (if there is an arrest right away) is almost a given. So, why dick around and wait until after she's buried?

[lorettalockhorn]

The attorney says Sandra was already in a casket by the time he was assigned to the case--well, she wasn't BURIED @ the time the charges including the rape stuff was presented, was she? Seems she was BURIED the day before the memorial service? Come on, couldn't the guy have had enough sense AS SOON AS HE GOT ON THE CASE, rape charges or not, to have asked for his own autopsy? It seems in this day and age, the defense asking for their own autopsy (if there is an arrest right away) is almost a given. So, why dick around and wait until after she's buried?

Exactly. You have to wonder why those questions weren't addressed before the funeral. THs on one of the HLN shows said that it was just jockeying. MEH

[old_soul]

Public skeptical that woman killed, raped girl
http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-national/20090418/Girl.in.Suitcase/



So, many people are calling in to Tracy LE, saying "it's insane, she couldn't have done this alone....."

After this case, I'll never say never again," Sheneman said, adding that police remain confident that Huckaby acted alone.

Seems to me, people in Tracy are questioning evidence they know nothing about........and while it is horrifying, it's real, and it happened...Hello!

[old_soul]

The attorney says Sandra was already in a casket by the time he was assigned to the case--well, she wasn't BURIED @ the time the charges including the rape stuff was presented, was she? Seems she was BURIED the day before the memorial service? Come on, couldn't the guy have had enough sense AS SOON AS HE GOT ON THE CASE, rape charges or not, to have asked for his own autopsy? It seems in this day and age, the defense asking for their own autopsy (if there is an arrest right away) is almost a given. So, why dick around and wait until after she's buried?

Totally right my dear! I was crazed when I saw that initially (hence my earlier post!) asking for your own autopsy seems to be a given, WTH, you don't wait till after the funeral, after the memorial..Good God.

An oriental TH said it is common practice, exhumation. I can't agree, never heard of it being 'common practice'......or maybe that's what HE does!:cool:

[old_soul]

Huckaby's Ex-Husband Speaks

http://www.mefeedia.com/entry/huckabys-ex-husband-speaks/16840397

Right, right, so no one figured her to do this, including him...even thought he says it's fair to admit she has had (depression?) problems most her life.

What kind of a**wipes are there around her? After the child drugging incident, no one questions her emotional INstability!?

[Amy]

Totally right my dear! I was crazed when I saw that initially (hence my earlier post!) asking for your own autopsy seems to be a given, WTH, you don't wait till after the funeral, after the memorial..Good God.

An oriental TH said it is common practice, exhumation. I can't agree, never heard of it being 'common practice'......or maybe that's what HE does!:cool:

While I haven't seen it as "common" in the cases I have followed, or even on things like Cold Case Files, when it DOES happen, it is more likely that it is because the perp isn't caught until much later. And, frankly, the ones I have seen is more like the prosecution has been told of information that would lead them to believe the autopsy wasn't thorough enough in relation to drugs that might have been used, or new technology has come up that could prove their suspicions about the death being a murder.

[Amy]

A depressed person would be more likely to take her life, and possibly the life of those near her, ie:her own daughter, her grandparents, than to (because of the depression) kill someone unrelated. Of course, there are exceptions to everything.

For the time she was taking prescription medication as her ex says, she did have to be under the care of either a medical doctor or psychiatrist. My DD can't get more than a month's supply of medication, she has to be seen by the doctor--and that is for all 3 different medications she has been on. I guess there might be medical doctors or even psychiatrists who prescribe for longer periods, or even if the person has to be seen, might just superficially ask how things are, and renew the prescription.

[lorettalockhorn]

A depressed person would be more likely to take her life, and possibly the life of those near her, ie:her own daughter, her grandparents, than to (because of the depression) kill someone unrelated. Of course, there are exceptions to everything.

For the time she was taking prescription medication as her ex says, she did have to be under the care of either a medical doctor or psychiatrist. My DD can't get more than a month's supply of medication, she has to be seen by the doctor--and that is for all 3 different medications she has been on. I guess there might be medical doctors or even psychiatrists who prescribe for longer periods, or even if the person has to be seen, might just superficially ask how things are, and renew the prescription.

Don't remember the exact source, but NG (I think?) has reported that Huckaby said the death was an accident. For some reason I can believe that; the sexual assault was intentional and maybe the rape is what caused Sandra's death, and that LE has the instrument. For instance the bowel could have been perforated causing bleeding/shock/cardiac arrest/death.

Seems like Melissa was under a watchful enough eye by her grandparents, parents and/or friends. No one noticed she was deteriorating? Did something precipitate this incident other than her court date coming up? Everyone's too busy to see her going downhill at breakneck speed?

Still want to know if there was a convo with her and the grandmother about the suitcase.

[One2Snoop]

Huckaby told friends she was raped
by Jennifer Wadsworth/ TP staff
14 hrs ago

A woman accused of kidnapping, raping and killing an 8-year-old Tracy girl told three of her friends separately that she was once raped herself.

At the time of the rape, Melissa Chantel Huckaby was 18, just out of high school and still living with her parents in La Habra, a city in Orange County, the friends said.

The three people who knew Huckaby at different times in her life told the same story. None knew each other. One was a high school friend, another was from a vocational school, and a third was from where she used to work — all from Southern California.

The three asked that their names be withheld, because Huckaby told them of the rape in confidence. They also said they’re afraid of being caught in the media spotlight.

They all said the rape occurred at a time when Huckaby’s life began to spiral downward.

Her first serious boyfriend had moved away, which broke her heart.

Her best friend had moved away to college.

Huckaby had trouble getting along with her family, said the friends.

Private letters shared by one source indicate Huckaby was suicidal, and had been since the sixth grade.

According to a passage one of her friends read over the phone, the letter dated May 20, 1999, read: “I just wasn’t meant to live, I guess. No one wants me or even cares if I live or not, and I’m just in the way, anyways.”

Earlier in 1999, before Huckaby graduated from Brea-Olinda High School, her grades dropped, she got kicked off the dance team, and she became more withdrawn, one friend said.

Soon after graduating from high school 10 years ago, a cop asked her out on a date. Afterward, the police officer handcuffed her, shoved her in the back seat of his car and raped her — a story that all three friends said Huckaby told them.

Huckaby never reported the incident to authorities, the friends said. One of her best friends was unsure if Huckaby’s family even knew.

snip
more at the link....
http://www.tracypress.com/pages/full_story?article-Huckaby%20told%20friends%20she%20was%20raped%20=&page_label=home&id=2341927-Huckaby+told+friends+she+was+raped&widget=push&instance=home_news_bullets&open=&

[One2Snoop]

SoCal officer cleared of Huckaby rape charge, probe found
by TP staff
1 hr 2 mins ago

Cypress police department spokesman Sgt. Tom Bruce said today that the department there conducted an investigation into claims by a Tracy murder suspect that a cop raped her 10 years ago. The investigation cleared the Orange County officer.

Melissa Chantel Huckaby, 28, was arrested on April 10 by Tracy police on suspicion of kidnapping, raping and murdering 8-year-old Tracy girl Sandra Cantu.

On Friday, three of Huckaby’s friends – none of whom knew each other – said she told them that a policeman raped her when she was 18, just out of high school.

Bruce confirmed that there was a report and an investigation, but provided no details and referred all calls to Tracy police.

Tracy police spokesman Sgt. Tony Sheneman said he can’t comment on an report involving Huckaby because it’s now part of an ongoing investigation.

Huckaby was arraigned on Tuesday, but entered no pleas. As charged, she could face the death penalty or life in prison without parole.

http://www.tracypress.com/pages/full_story?page_label=home&id=2345658-SoCal+officer+cleared+of+Huckaby+rape+charge-+probe+found&article-SoCal%20officer%20cleared%20of%20Huckaby%20rape%20 charge-%20probe%20found%20=&widget=push&instance=home_news_lead_story&open=&

[lorettalockhorn]

She didn't report the incident but there was an investigation? Or she lied to her friends that she didn't make a report?? She's a liar period??? I'd be surprised if there isn't abuse in her background. That said, can we not find a babykiller who at least has the balls to tell the ftruth?

[Nawny]

She didn't report the incident but there was an investigation? Or she lied to her friends that she didn't make a report?? She's a liar period??? I'd be surprised if there isn't abuse in her background. That said, can we not find a babykiller who at least has the balls to tell the ftruth?



Sounds like another smoke and mirrors concerto preview of coming attractions.
:cuss:

[Nawny]

How dare they!:flamemad:

Huckaby's court appointed atty wants to exhume Sandra's body to aid in her defense! (JVM tonight). Other TH defense atty's say he has no choice in asking for this.

Oh, they couldn't ask to review her before she was put to rest?! Why not when the crazy b***h was cowering in court the other day!

How can they do this to this family??!! The judge has not ruled yes or no, but the TH say he probably will allow this.

I say let her rest in peace..Sandra and her family have been through ENOUGH!
:mad::flamemad::cuss:


Those poor people! :(

This request sounds like a very fragile but brilliant strategy. Imagine the huge bucket of reasonable doubt that can hit this courtroom floor now? Are we reaching for the haterade yet?

It's Saturday night girls! I think it's crappy hour. Drink up!
:beer:

[javahog]

Those poor people! :(

This request sounds like a very fragile but brilliant strategy. Imagine the huge bucket of reasonable doubt that can hit this courtroom floor now? Are we reaching for the haterade yet?

It's Saturday night girls! I think it's crappy hour. Drink up!
:beer:

If you want to see a town melt down on haterade, read the comments after this story in the Tracy Press: http://www.tracypress.com/pages/full_story?page_label=home&id=2339037-Defense+wants+Sandra+Cantu+exhumed+for+second+auto psy&article-Defense%20wants%20Sandra%20Cantu%20exhumed%20for%2 0second%20autopsy%20=&widget=push&instance=home_news_bullets&open=&

They are at war. And it doesn't even cover the guy who was threatening a neighbor with arrest over a garage sale dispute or something...

[Twinners]

SoCal officer cleared of Huckaby rape charge, probe found
by TP staff
1 hr 2 mins ago

Cypress police department spokesman Sgt. Tom Bruce said today that the department there conducted an investigation into claims by a Tracy murder suspect that a cop raped her 10 years ago. The investigation cleared the Orange County officer.

<snip>

On Friday, three of Huckaby’s friends – none of whom knew each other – said she told them that a policeman raped her when she was 18, just out of high school.

Bruce confirmed that there was a report and an investigation, but provided no details and referred all calls to Tracy police.

<snip>

http://www.tracypress.com/pages/full_story?page_label=home&id=2345658-SoCal+officer+cleared+of+Huckaby+rape+charge-+probe+found&article-SoCal%20officer%20cleared%20of%20Huckaby%20rape%20 charge-%20probe%20found%20=&widget=push&instance=home_news_lead_story&open=&

She didn't report the incident but there was an investigation? Or she lied to her friends that she didn't make a report?? She's a liar period??? I'd be surprised if there isn't abuse in her background. That said, can we not find a babykiller who at least has the balls to tell the ftruth?

From the way it looks to me, she did make a report Loretta. It doesn't seem to say anything about whether or not she told the three friends about the report. Maybe she just told them about the alleged rape itself, not what she did about it? :shrug:

[lorettalockhorn]

From the way it looks to me, she did make a report Loretta. It doesn't seem to say anything about whether or not she told the three friends about the report. Maybe she just told them about the alleged rape itself, not what she did about it? :shrug:

Huckaby told friends she was raped
by Jennifer Wadsworth/ TP staff
14 hrs ago

A woman accused of kidnapping, raping and killing an 8-year-old Tracy girl told three of her friends separately that she was once raped herself.

At the time of the rape, Melissa Chantel Huckaby was 18, just out of high school and still living with her parents in La Habra, a city in Orange County, the friends said.

The three people who knew Huckaby at different times in her life told the same story. None knew each other. One was a high school friend, another was from a vocational school, and a third was from where she used to work — all from Southern California.

The three asked that their names be withheld, because Huckaby told them of the rape in confidence. They also said they’re afraid of being caught in the media spotlight.

They all said the rape occurred at a time when Huckaby’s life began to spiral downward.

Her first serious boyfriend had moved away, which broke her heart.

Her best friend had moved away to college.

Huckaby had trouble getting along with her family, said the friends.

Private letters shared by one source indicate Huckaby was suicidal, and had been since the sixth grade.

According to a passage one of her friends read over the phone, the letter dated May 20, 1999, read: “I just wasn’t meant to live, I guess. No one wants me or even cares if I live or not, and I’m just in the way, anyways.”

Earlier in 1999, before Huckaby graduated from Brea-Olinda High School, her grades dropped, she got kicked off the dance team, and she became more withdrawn, one friend said.

Soon after graduating from high school 10 years ago, a cop asked her out on a date. Afterward, the police officer handcuffed her, shoved her in the back seat of his car and raped her — a story that all three friends said Huckaby told them.

Huckaby never reported the incident to authorities, the friends said. One of her best friends was unsure if Huckaby’s family even knew.

snip
more at the link....
http://www.tracypress.com/pages/full_story?article-Huckaby%20told%20friends%20she%20was%20raped%20=&page_label=home&id=2341927-Huckaby+told+friends+she+was+raped&widget=push&instance=home_news_bullets&open=&

Yes, I see the other article in the Tracy Press claiming that she did report the incident. Is the purpose of that article to prove that Huckaby is a liar or insinuate that her friends are liars? It's kind of sad that her friends would make an effort to explain away what would have certainly been a trauma in Huckaby's life only to have it refuted.

[Lodi]

Yes, I see the other article in the Tracy Press claiming that she did report the incident. Is the purpose of that article to prove that Huckaby is a liar or insinuate that her friends are liars? It's kind of sad that her friends would make an effort to explain away what would have certainly been a trauma in Huckaby's life only to have it refuted.

I see the two articles by the Tracy Press were written 13 hrs apart. The first one reported what her friends had been told by Huckaby. The second article reports that LE confirmed that Huckaby claimed she was raped but they found no proof of it. I don't see her friends being refuted. Just that Huckaby never told them that she reported the alleged rape.

[lorettalockhorn]

I see the two articles by the Tracy Press were written 13 hrs apart. The first one reported what her friends had been told by Huckaby. The second article reports that LE confirmed that Huckaby claimed she was raped but they found no proof of it. I don't see her friends being refuted. Just that Huckaby never told them that she reported the alleged rape.

Was my comment really, really so obtuse? :rolleyes:

[One2Snoop]

8-year-old Sandra Cantu's murder raises questions about whom to trust
posted by LisaCianci on Apr 20, 2009 6:27:19 AM

Working in a newsroom for the past 20+ years has hardened me against most of the crime news I read. It takes a lot to surprise me. But this story has me shaken, on many levels. First, a young child goes missing -- always a parent's big fear. Then, she is found dead. And finally -- or, at least, I thought the horror ended there -- her Sunday school teacher (and her best friend's mother) is charged with the murder. The woman accused of killing 8-year-old Sandra Cantu also is charged with "rape with a foreign object."

The atrocities this little girl faced in her final hours, allegedly at the hands of a trusted adult, makes me cry. It also makes me wonder if we, as parents, can ever warn our children enough about the dangers they might face.

Do we really want to tell our kids they can't trust ANYONE? How do we protect them without scaring them?

Sure, most parents tell their kids to stay away from strangers, but I doubt many of us say, "Be careful around your Sunday school teacher (or priest or Scout leader or neighbor), because they might be dangerous."

Maybe we should, though. As my son got older and wasn't within our supervision 24/7, we talked to him about telling us if ANY adult, no matter who it is, says or does something to make him feel uncomfortable.

The other layer of this that makes me sick is that this woman, if she is in fact guilty, is a mother. Sad as it is, it doesn't surprise me as much when men commit these types of murders. But a mom? Her best friend's mom? It's unimaginable.

I'm not sure there was any way to prepare Sandra Cantu for what happened to her.

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/features_momsatwork/2009/04/working-in-a-newsroom-for-the-past-20-years-has-hardened-me-against-most-of-the-crime-news-i-read-it-takes-a-lot-to-surpris.html

[One2Snoop]

Tracy police swamped by callers skeptical at allegations lone woman killed, raped girl

JULIANA BARBASSAMARCUS WOHLSEN | Associated Press Writers Associated Press Writers
9:58 AM CDT, April 19, 2009

TRACY, Calif. (AP) — Callers have inundated the phone lines of Tracy police, saying it can't be. Veteran homicide and sex-crime researchers say they cannot recall a case quite like it. Even the investigators themselves looked at the evidence and initially said "no way."

A woman was accused not only of killing someone else's child, but of raping her

Law enforcement officials and other experts say the allegations against Melissa Huckaby in the slaying of 8-year-old Sandra Cantu are remarkably rare over decades of U.S. police work.

Huckaby was charged Tuesday with murdering her daughter's playmate, with the added special circumstances of rape with a foreign object, lewd or lascivious conduct with a child under 14 and murder in the course of a kidnapping. The 28-year-old divorced mother is due back in court Friday, when she is expected to enter a plea.

snip
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/sns-ap-girl-in-suitcase,0,5333054.story

[One2Snoop]

A teacher is an individual first

By Wallace Alcorn | Austin Daily Herald

Published Monday, April 20, 2009

A California Sunday school teacher took advantage of her authority over one of her young students to rape and murder her. This is not so, but it is precisely what the news media lead us to conclude. When the media identify an accused perpetrator by a factor unrelated to the allegation, it is incompetence, unethical, and often outright discriminatory when based on class, as this is. I strongly protest this common and popular practice.

Melissa Huckaby, 28, of Tracy, California, is accused of raping by instrument and of the first decree murder of Sandra Cantu, 8. Whether Huckaby is guilty is for a court to recognize, but I address the media offense of leading with and consistently identifying her as a “Sunday school teacher.” This has the clear effect of asserting the woman performed the crimes as a Sunday school teacher. If she should be found guilty of the crimes, it would not be that a Sunday school teacher murdered, but an individual (who happened also to be a teacher).

The facts: Huckaby’s contact with and relation to the little girl was as a neighbor. The unfair advantage she had over the girl was as an adult, one known as a neighbor, and, ironically, the mother of the girl’s good friend.

Moreover, this could be no indictment of Sunday school teachers generally. It cannot be extrapolated from this that such behavior is characteristic of Sunday school teachers. Quite the opposite is true, and as a class they are worthy of our respect.

More facts: The victim was not in Huckaby’s Sunday school class. She wasn’t even a student in the Sunday school. The media hasn’t bothered to ask if she even attended any Sunday school. They have also not reported in what sense the accused might be considered a “Sunday school teacher.”

Did she, for instance, merely fill in occasionally for a class of adult women? The media haven’t even bothered to report the basis for saying she is a Sunday school teacher.

If it should have been she was this in every sense, this would still be utterly and absolutely irrelevant to any crime of which she might be guilty. Even if she happened to be the victim’s teacher, it still wouldn’t necessarily have been relevant unless it should come to be shown she used her position.

It is a serious violation of journalistic ethics to identify a person by such as race, religion, or sexual orientation unless such factors are necessary to apprehend the suspect or in some way relevant to the alleged crime. It seems to me, radio, television, newspapers and internet media across the country are guilty of unethical practices.

In most states this is also against civil or human rights acts. To fall under such acts, of course, the basis for discrimination is required to be one of the several stipulated categories. A strong and convincing case might be built for this kind of reportage as being religious discrimination.

Although the conscious motivation of most media is likely to be typical sensationalism for commercial gain and in disregard of social responsibility, underlying this is a clear strain of bias against serious practice of religion. “Sunday school teacher” has for long been a stereotype for a goody-good.

Moreover, in the present context it has the force of hypocrite. This woman, the image projected has it, claims to be a holier-than-thou, goody-goody but, like a lot of Sunday school teachers, is a blatant hypocrite. So there.

I don’t accuse any particular media outlet of consciously intending this, but I have recognized an underlying negative bias for a long while. It becomes operative, then, when an opportunity of this sort arises. It is seized upon and exploited shamelessly.

Many readers also like this, and editors accommodate. People enjoy thinking they escape social accountability for their own moral failings by pointing to someone like “this Sunday school teacher.”

I call upon all news media — and individuals who quote them — to stick to relevant facts and not try to project their own moral failings upon media victims.

http://t.love.com/205760094

[deacon]

A teacher is an individual first

By Wallace Alcorn | Austin Daily Herald

Published Monday, April 20, 2009

A California Sunday school teacher took advantage of her authority over one of her young students to rape and murder her. This is not so, but it is precisely what the news media lead us to conclude. When the media identify an accused perpetrator by a factor unrelated to the allegation, it is incompetence, unethical, and often outright discriminatory when based on class, as this is. I strongly protest this common and popular practice.

Melissa Huckaby, 28, of Tracy, California, is accused of raping by instrument and of the first decree murder of Sandra Cantu, 8. Whether Huckaby is guilty is for a court to recognize, but I address the media offense of leading with and consistently identifying her as a “Sunday school teacher.” This has the clear effect of asserting the woman performed the crimes as a Sunday school teacher. If she should be found guilty of the crimes, it would not be that a Sunday school teacher murdered, but an individual (who happened also to be a teacher).
The facts: Huckaby’s contact with and relation to the little girl was as a neighbor. The unfair advantage she had over the girl was as an adult, one known as a neighbor, and, ironically, the mother of the girl’s good friend.

Moreover, this could be no indictment of Sunday school teachers generally. It cannot be extrapolated from this that such behavior is characteristic of Sunday school teachers. Quite the opposite is true, and as a class they are worthy of our respect.
More facts: The victim was not in Huckaby’s Sunday school class. She wasn’t even a student in the Sunday school. The media hasn’t bothered to ask if she even attended any Sunday school. They have also not reported in what sense the accused might be considered a “Sunday school teacher.”

Did she, for instance, merely fill in occasionally for a class of adult women? The media haven’t even bothered to report the basis for saying she is a Sunday school teacher.

If it should have been she was this in every sense, this would still be utterly and absolutely irrelevant to any crime of which she might be guilty. Even if she happened to be the victim’s teacher, it still wouldn’t necessarily have been relevant unless it should come to be shown she used her position.

It is a serious violation of journalistic ethics to identify a person by such as race, religion, or sexual orientation unless such factors are necessary to apprehend the suspect or in some way relevant to the alleged crime. It seems to me, radio, television, newspapers and internet media across the country are guilty of unethical practices.
In most states this is also against civil or human rights acts. To fall under such acts, of course, the basis for discrimination is required to be one of the several stipulated categories. A strong and convincing case might be built for this kind of reportage as being religious discrimination.

Although the conscious motivation of most media is likely to be typical sensationalism for commercial gain and in disregard of social responsibility, underlying this is a clear strain of bias against serious practice of religion. “Sunday school teacher” has for long been a stereotype for a goody-good.

Moreover, in the present context it has the force of hypocrite. This woman, the image projected has it, claims to be a holier-than-thou, goody-goody but, like a lot of Sunday school teachers, is a blatant hypocrite. So there.

I don’t accuse any particular media outlet of consciously intending this, but I have recognized an underlying negative bias for a long while. It becomes operative, then, when an opportunity of this sort arises. It is seized upon and exploited shamelessly.

Many readers also like this, and editors accommodate. People enjoy thinking they escape social accountability for their own moral failings by pointing to someone like “this Sunday school teacher.”

I call upon all news media — and individuals who quote them — to stick to relevant facts and not try to project their own moral failings upon media victims.

http://t.love.com/205760094

How true. I doubt that any media outlet will pay attention, but true non-the-less.

[lorettalockhorn]

Great articles, O2S! :seeya:

[lorettalockhorn]

TH on Prime News just said that Sandra's body was in the pond three days. HUH?

[Amy]

TH on Prime News just said that Sandra's body was in the pond three days. HUH?

One thing I have come to realize over the years about TH's--they don't always keep up w/information on the cases they "discuss." They talk off the top of their hats without really reading up on the cases, following statements from LE, etc.

[lorettalockhorn]

One thing I have come to realize over the years about TH's--they don't always keep up w/information on the cases they "discuss." They talk off the top of their hats without really reading up on the cases, following statements from LE, etc.

Amy, so true! Heck, sometimes the know-it-all hosts *Nancy Grace* don't even seem to know details. I just wondered if it was a slip, for instance was there some indication that Sandra was killed on the Friday of her disappearance but not dumped until days later.

[javahog]

Huckaby tied to January missing girl report

Melissa Chantel Huckaby, 28, is tied to a report that someone in January took a 7-year-old girl to a park for four hours and brought her back high on muscle relaxers.

The incident was reported on January 17 by a family in the Orchard Estates Mobile Home Park. Huckaby lived in the same complex, also where 8-year-old Sandra Cantu lived before police found her dead body on April 10. Police arrested Huckaby four days later on suspicion on kidnapping, raping and killing Sandra.

The January report alleges that someone took a 45-pound blue-eyed dark-haired girl to a park. The woman and the child were gone for four hours, from about 1:30 to after 5 p.m., according to the police log. The woman who took the girl drove a purple Kia Sportage, according to the report.

*snip*

Police logs say the girl’s mother had alcohol on her breath and carried around some type of drug. Police dismissed the incident because of the mother’s drug and alcohol problem, said a friend of the family’s who asked not to be identified because the FBI asked the family not to talk about the case.

*snip*

http://www.tracypress.com/pages/full_story?page_label=home&id=2353504-Huckaby+tied+to+January+missing+girl+report&widget=push&article-Huckaby%20tied%20to%20January%20missing%20girl%20r eport%20=&instance=home_news_lead_story&open=&

So, yeah, police wrote it off as the girl's parent's didn't control their own drugs well enough, sounds like. Too bad. Sandra might well not be dead...

[javahog]

Amy, so true! Heck, sometimes the know-it-all hosts *Nancy Grace* don't even seem to know details. I just wondered if it was a slip, for instance was there some indication that Sandra was killed on the Friday of her disappearance but not dumped until days later.

I can't find this on any of the local news sources, so I would not take it as gospel...yet.

Didn't they already have all MH's vehicles in custody, as well as everyone around her? They didn't levitate her there, so I don't think this makes sense...

[lorettalockhorn]

RE: the other missing girl report, sounds like the LE mothers were prejudiced against the wrong mother. Sandra could very well be alive.

People who use drugs and alcohol aren't ever victims? From my experience they're quite vulnerable.

Java, the TH very likely did misspeak, it was just hard not to pick up on it.

ETA: I thought Huckaby's car was taken into evidence the day that Sandra's body was found.

[javahog]

RE: the other missing girl report, sounds like the LE mothers were prejudiced against the wrong mother. Sandra could very well be alive.

People who use drugs and alcohol aren't ever victims? From my experience they're quite vulnerable.

Java, the TH very likely did misspeak, it was just hard not to pick up on it.

ETA: I thought Huckaby's car was taken into evidence the day that Sandra's body was found.

Thanks, I couldn't remember. Seemed like they were towing every car in Tracy out of that park.

People who are addict and alkies are very often chosen to be the victims of crime. At the very least, I don't understand why CPS wasn't called, if the cops thought the child had access to drugs in the house. nuts. They had a child. The child had drugs in her system. THAT was somebody's fault. It should not have been smirked at and ignored. imo.

I hope that child is now being given the help she no doubt needs, and is being questioned about the information she may provide (like any other people involved, if she remembers?)

ETA: I hope the drinking mother has had an awakening that her drinking aggravated her child's endangerment and resulted in her not being believed, and is getting help as well. I can only imagine how bad she felt. May some good come of it.

[tandarat]

Hey....had a loooong weekend, so didn't get online much. Just wanted to respond to a couple of things I just read catching up, and had actually been thinking about for awhile now. I'll probably get flamed to bits, but this is how I see it.

First, the second autopsy. I don't know if any of you have read the actual request, but apparently the defense attorneys, in fact the entire defender's office, had not received ANY evidence at the time the request was made. I'm guessing that they waited as long as they felt they could, so they could review the autopsy report and questioning tapes, but needed to get it moving due to the condition of the body. Now, don't get me wrong, my first reaction was "WHAT???", but this is something that has to be done. Truthfully, they don't even know what was found during the autopsy, if anything. It says something to the effect that because rape was added as a special circumstance, they have to assume that either something was found in the autopsy, MH said something during interrogation, or both. Because they don't have the autopsy report, they have to assume some mention was made of damage to the body that would give the ME reason to suspect sexual assault, and that another ME should look at it to see if there could be any other cause (damage while trying to dispose of the body comes to mind, or from decomp, etc...I would guess it is safe to say animals would have caused anything). By not requesting this I think that the defense attorney would not be doing his job.

Second, someone made some comment about how everyone claims bipolar, and how it is a cop-out. I had mentioned awhile back that she shows a lot of signs of bipolar disorder, and that could explain the "unexplainable", but it certainly isn't an excuse. In most instances, bipolar mania would certainly NOT meet California state law for an insanity plea, and probably wouldn't even drop the charge to 2nd degree murder. Just thought I'd point that out.

Third, while I trust that Tracy PD and the FBI have conducted an exemplary investigation, and they have a lot of facts we do not have, AND they are confident (and probably rightly so) that she did it, here in the US we have this thing called innocent until proven guilty. As careful as Tracy PD was to prevent trial by media, this seems to be getting tossed out the window, again.

Now, do I think she did it? I don't know. I don't WANT to think she did it, but as careful as LE seemed to be about this one, things don't look too good for her. However, I can't help but wonder at times if she opened her big mouth a few too many times, and told a few to many tall tales, and got herself into too much trouble. I'm guessing that she knows what happened, at the very least, and I would not doubt that she disposed of the body, or helped dispose of it, or knew where it was and went there at some point. Or, she may have done everything LE is claiming she did, and more. I just don't know. I, like everyone else, will have to wait for the trial to see the evidence.

As for her mental health status, that will have to wait for trial, as well. There is something called HIPAA that makes it illegal to release health information, and that includes psychiatric records. So, unless a family member or friend spills the beans, we won't know.

Now, before y'all start throwing rotten veggies at my, think of it this way. This most likely will be a death penalty case. What happens if the autopsy happens to be wrong, and Sandra was NOT raped, and the death was some kind of accident (she was run over, they were goofing around and she hit her head, etc.), and MH panicked, made some really dumb choices, and hid the body, told the lies, etc. that put her where she is today. Wrong, yes. Horrible, yes. Illegal, oh yeah. But worth the death penalty? Come on.

Also, what if, as remote as it may seem, she didn't do it at all? Truthfully, I think it would be worse to have the wrong person executed than never catching the right person at all. I think everyone needs to step back and take a deep breath. We are all really furious about what happened to this little girl, but let's not try MH before she even gets her say in court.

I thought a lot about this over the weekend, and something about the tone of every discussion about MH really bothered me. Not just here, and not just online....every conversation was similar. I realized that MH has just as much of a right to a fair trial as I do. I try to put myself or a loved one (I have a cousin who actually is bipolar) in her position...being frightened, confused, and alone. I tried to look at it from the perspective of someone who did NOT do what was being accused, and for whatever reason was compelled to tell some pretty big lies which ended up backfiring....whether it was self destructive or impulsive or just plain stupid, it doesn't matter...I would not want everyone to believe what was being told to them and coming to a conclusion without me/my relative not being able to say anything to refute it. So, as hard as it is, I'm now trying to remain objective about it, and will be waiting for the trial to make a final decision. I would hope for the same for me if I were in that position.

[old_soul]

Thanks, I couldn't remember. Seemed like they were towing every car in Tracy out of that park.

People who are addict and alkies are very often chosen to be the victims of crime. At the very least, I don't understand why CPS wasn't called, if the cops thought the child had access to drugs in the house. nuts. They had a child. The child had drugs in her system. THAT was somebody's fault. It should not have been smirked at and ignored. imo.

I hope that child is now being given the help she no doubt needs, and is being questioned about the information she may provide (like any other people involved, if she remembers?)

ETA: I hope the drinking mother has had an awakening that her drinking aggravated her child's endangerment and resulted in her not being believed, and is getting help as well. I can only imagine how bad she felt. May some good come of it.

I'm not sure I heard how this mom came to have alcohol on her breath...was it because she had a couple of shots when she freaked out cause her child was abducted? Or was she an alcoholic? At least the child was taken to the hospital immediately, but what bothers me, and I didn't read all the above posts yet, so I'm not sure it's been addressed.... but ~ the drug that was in her system (the little girl) is toxic to children and she could have died. The effects on an adult of course are different. Which brings us to Sandra...

Is this what MH did to Sandra? Gave her drugged Koolaid and afterwards Sandra didn't wake up? Did she think, in her warped mind, that she would get away easy like the time before?!

I also don't understand why more wasn't done before, and perhaps Sandra could have been saved. :flamemad: Seems like these cases recently defy comprehension...How could this happen when we are so aware of the world and the way it is now?!:(

[Nawny]

Hey....had a loooong weekend, so didn't get online much. Just wanted to respond to a couple of things I just read catching up, and had actually been thinking about for awhile now. I'll probably get flamed to bits, but this is how I see it.

First, the second autopsy. I don't know if any of you have read the actual request, but apparently the defense attorneys, in fact the entire defender's office, had not received ANY evidence at the time the request was made. I'm guessing that they waited as long as they felt they could, so they could review the autopsy report and questioning tapes, but needed to get it moving due to the condition of the body. Now, don't get me wrong, my first reaction was "WHAT???", but this is something that has to be done. Truthfully, they don't even know what was found during the autopsy, if anything. It says something to the effect that because rape was added as a special circumstance, they have to assume that either something was found in the autopsy, MH said something during interrogation, or both. Because they don't have the autopsy report, they have to assume some mention was made of damage to the body that would give the ME reason to suspect sexual assault, and that another ME should look at it to see if there could be any other cause (damage while trying to dispose of the body comes to mind, or from decomp, etc...I would guess it is safe to say animals would have caused anything). By not requesting this I think that the defense attorney would not be doing his job.

Second, someone made some comment about how everyone claims bipolar, and how it is a cop-out. I had mentioned awhile back that she shows a lot of signs of bipolar disorder, and that could explain the "unexplainable", but it certainly isn't an excuse. In most instances, bipolar mania would certainly NOT meet California state law for an insanity plea, and probably wouldn't even drop the charge to 2nd degree murder. Just thought I'd point that out.

Third, while I trust that Tracy PD and the FBI have conducted an exemplary investigation, and they have a lot of facts we do not have, AND they are confident (and probably rightly so) that she did it, here in the US we have this thing called innocent until proven guilty. As careful as Tracy PD was to prevent trial by media, this seems to be getting tossed out the window, again.

Now, do I think she did it? I don't know. I don't WANT to think she did it, but as careful as LE seemed to be about this one, things don't look too good for her. However, I can't help but wonder at times if she opened her big mouth a few too many times, and told a few to many tall tales, and got herself into too much trouble. I'm guessing that she knows what happened, at the very least, and I would not doubt that she disposed of the body, or helped dispose of it, or knew where it was and went there at some point. Or, she may have done everything LE is claiming she did, and more. I just don't know. I, like everyone else, will have to wait for the trial to see the evidence.

As for her mental health status, that will have to wait for trial, as well. There is something called HIPAA that makes it illegal to release health information, and that includes psychiatric records. So, unless a family member or friend spills the beans, we won't know.

Now, before y'all start throwing rotten veggies at my, think of it this way. This most likely will be a death penalty case. What happens if the autopsy happens to be wrong, and Sandra was NOT raped, and the death was some kind of accident (she was run over, they were goofing around and she hit her head, etc.), and MH panicked, made some really dumb choices, and hid the body, told the lies, etc. that put her where she is today. Wrong, yes. Horrible, yes. Illegal, oh yeah. But worth the death penalty? Come on.

Also, what if, as remote as it may seem, she didn't do it at all? Truthfully, I think it would be worse to have the wrong person executed than never catching the right person at all. I think everyone needs to step back and take a deep breath. We are all really furious about what happened to this little girl, but let's not try MH before she even gets her say in court.

I thought a lot about this over the weekend, and something about the tone of every discussion about MH really bothered me. Not just here, and not just online....every conversation was similar. I realized that MH has just as much of a right to a fair trial as I do. I try to put myself or a loved one (I have a cousin who actually is bipolar) in her position...being frightened, confused, and alone. I tried to look at it from the perspective of someone who did NOT do what was being accused, and for whatever reason was compelled to tell some pretty big lies which ended up backfiring....whether it was self destructive or impulsive or just plain stupid, it doesn't matter...I would not want everyone to believe what was being told to them and coming to a conclusion without me/my relative not being able to say anything to refute it. So, as hard as it is, I'm now trying to remain objective about it, and will be waiting for the trial to make a final decision. I would hope for the same for me if I were in that position.

I read your post late last night and was tired and not sure what your point was. With a clear head and halfway through my first coffee I think you're trying to defend a disorder that gets thrown around a lot in cases like this.
These kind of crimes defy our human capacity to understand. Some need a label. I have two points to make. 1.) If she did not act alone, she'd be the first one to say so. She'd like to get out of jail. ;) And, 2.) Bi polar disorder is NOT an answer to, "why" she killed.

I'm not expert on the chemicals in our brains that make it malfunction, and delete the conduit to the making of good sense. But I do know that some legendary greats had this disorder, including Abraham Lincoln. So that label is dead in the water. So you're right. IMO.

[Nawny]

RE: the other missing girl report, sounds like the LE mothers were prejudiced against the wrong mother. Sandra could very well be alive.

People who use drugs and alcohol aren't ever victims? From my experience they're quite vulnerable.

Java, the TH very likely did misspeak, it was just hard not to pick up on it.

ETA: I thought Huckaby's car was taken into evidence the day that Sandra's body was found.



If the other little girl's mother took her to the hospital, how intoxicated was she? Hell, Casey forgot to even mention that her daughter was kidnapped. No one mentioned whether or not she smelled like alcohol. Mark Klass's wife didn't have alcohol on her breath. etc... Are they saying those who have alcohol problems shouldn't be protected, or that they are not worthy of an investigation? Larry King dove into LE for not investigating the case of the other little girl who went with MH to the park and came back drugged. If her mother took her to the hospital, she obviously felt there was a reason. So her mom was not too drunk to be alarmed. IMO

[Nawny]

Thanks, I couldn't remember. Seemed like they were towing every car in Tracy out of that park.

People who are addict and alkies are very often chosen to be the victims of crime. At the very least, I don't understand why CPS wasn't called, if the cops thought the child had access to drugs in the house. nuts. They had a child. The child had drugs in her system. THAT was somebody's fault. It should not have been smirked at and ignored. imo.

I hope that child is now being given the help she no doubt needs, and is being questioned about the information she may provide (like any other people involved, if she remembers?)ETA: I hope the drinking mother has had an awakening that her drinking aggravated her child's endangerment and resulted in her not being believed, and is getting help as well. I can only imagine how bad she felt. May some good come of it.


Yes, some good may come of it, if not holding up the sacrificial lamb to seal MH's conviction. The little girl she did not kill was most likely molested and her future looks dim. I have a hunch those involved with that investigation are going to be in some deep chit. Gotta love media! If I lived near there, I'd be one of the protesters. Sandra didn't have to die. MH should have been behind bars after that incident with the drugged little girl.

On Larry King last night, JVM made a very good point when she said, (para phrased) we have to learn something from these crimes. We have to learn to do character forensics on first time offenders, so there won't be a second time. :cuss:

[lorettalockhorn]

Hey....had a loooong weekend, so didn't get online much. Just wanted to respond to a couple of things I just read catching up, and had actually been thinking about for awhile now. I'll probably get flamed to bits, but this is how I see it.

First, the second autopsy. I don't know if any of you have read the actual request, but apparently the defense attorneys, in fact the entire defender's office, had not received ANY evidence at the time the request was made. I'm guessing that they waited as long as they felt they could, so they could review the autopsy report and questioning tapes, but needed to get it moving due to the condition of the body. Now, don't get me wrong, my first reaction was "WHAT???", but this is something that has to be done. Truthfully, they don't even know what was found during the autopsy, if anything. It says something to the effect that because rape was added as a special circumstance, they have to assume that either something was found in the autopsy, MH said something during interrogation, or both. Because they don't have the autopsy report, they have to assume some mention was made of damage to the body that would give the ME reason to suspect sexual assault, and that another ME should look at it to see if there could be any other cause (damage while trying to dispose of the body comes to mind, or from decomp, etc...I would guess it is safe to say animals would have caused anything). By not requesting this I think that the defense attorney would not be doing his job.

Second, someone made some comment about how everyone claims bipolar, and how it is a cop-out. I had mentioned awhile back that she shows a lot of signs of bipolar disorder, and that could explain the "unexplainable", but it certainly isn't an excuse. In most instances, bipolar mania would certainly NOT meet California state law for an insanity plea, and probably wouldn't even drop the charge to 2nd degree murder. Just thought I'd point that out.

Third, while I trust that Tracy PD and the FBI have conducted an exemplary investigation, and they have a lot of facts we do not have, AND they are confident (and probably rightly so) that she did it, here in the US we have this thing called innocent until proven guilty. As careful as Tracy PD was to prevent trial by media, this seems to be getting tossed out the window, again.

Now, do I think she did it? I don't know. I don't WANT to think she did it, but as careful as LE seemed to be about this one, things don't look too good for her. However, I can't help but wonder at times if she opened her big mouth a few too many times, and told a few to many tall tales, and got herself into too much trouble. I'm guessing that she knows what happened, at the very least, and I would not doubt that she disposed of the body, or helped dispose of it, or knew where it was and went there at some point. Or, she may have done everything LE is claiming she did, and more. I just don't know. I, like everyone else, will have to wait for the trial to see the evidence.

As for her mental health status, that will have to wait for trial, as well. There is something called HIPAA that makes it illegal to release health information, and that includes psychiatric records. So, unless a family member or friend spills the beans, we won't know.

Now, before y'all start throwing rotten veggies at my, think of it this way. This most likely will be a death penalty case. What happens if the autopsy happens to be wrong, and Sandra was NOT raped, and the death was some kind of accident (she was run over, they were goofing around and she hit her head, etc.), and MH panicked, made some really dumb choices, and hid the body, told the lies, etc. that put her where she is today. Wrong, yes. Horrible, yes. Illegal, oh yeah. But worth the death penalty? Come on.

Also, what if, as remote as it may seem, she didn't do it at all? Truthfully, I think it would be worse to have the wrong person executed than never catching the right person at all. I think everyone needs to step back and take a deep breath. We are all really furious about what happened to this little girl, but let's not try MH before she even gets her say in court.

I thought a lot about this over the weekend, and something about the tone of every discussion about MH really bothered me. Not just here, and not just online....every conversation was similar. I realized that MH has just as much of a right to a fair trial as I do. I try to put myself or a loved one (I have a cousin who actually is bipolar) in her position...being frightened, confused, and alone. I tried to look at it from the perspective of someone who did NOT do what was being accused, and for whatever reason was compelled to tell some pretty big lies which ended up backfiring....whether it was self destructive or impulsive or just plain stupid, it doesn't matter...I would not want everyone to believe what was being told to them and coming to a conclusion without me/my relative not being able to say anything to refute it. So, as hard as it is, I'm now trying to remain objective about it, and will be waiting for the trial to make a final decision. I would hope for the same for me if I were in that position.

Don't have a problem with the second autopsy if it ensures that the prosecution and defense will be by the book. No one wants a mistake that will keep this case in court for years and keep Sandra's family and friends and the community from receiving justice for the crime. What I do have a problem with is when the second autopsy was asked for. The defense should have made damned sure that they had the information that they needed before Sandra was entombed.

Find it hard to believe that animals and/or decomposition are likely to be responsible for any penetration or wounds that would have led LE and the ME to conclude that Sandra was raped; it's possible that the instrument has been recovered and contains forensic evidence.

Bipolar or whatever mental illness Huckaby is plagued with could very well be what was behind her though process when the crime occurred, but it's not an excuse. She's an adult who not only had a (apparently poor and enabling) support system, but she was court ordered for either evaluation or treatment. (It's hard to tell from reports if it was one or the other or both.) Not sure what led the judge to write the order, but it should not have been delayed. I find it irresponsible that Preacher Lawless gave this woman a job at the church although it doesn't appear that she harmed any other children, and she wasn't Sandra's Sunday school teacher, so she apparently didn't use her authority in that position to prey on Sandra.

What astounds me most about this case is not that a woman and mother is the perpetrator, but that people seem to refuse to believe that a woman and mother can possibly be capable and responsible.

[lorettalockhorn]

If the other little girl's mother took her to the hospital, how intoxicated was she? Hell, Casey forgot to even mention that her daughter was kidnapped. No one mentioned whether or not she smelled like alcohol. Mark Klass's wife didn't have alcohol on her breath. etc... Are they saying those who have alcohol problems shouldn't be protected, or that they are not worthy of an investigation? Larry King dove into LE for not investigating the case of the other little girl who went with MH to the park and came back drugged. If her mother took her to the hospital, she obviously felt there was a reason. So her mom was not too drunk to be alarmed. IMO

From what I've read, the mother had alcohol on her breath, but I've never read that she was immediately reported or given a BAL. The hospital certainly should have reported the mother for public intox and/or for driving the child to the hospital. But for the hospital or LE to pooh pooh the mother's claims because of alcohol use seems criminal in itself. And if her use crosses the line to abuse it's even worse; Huckaby could well have chosen this girl because her mother would be less able to deal with the repercussions. One of the reasons that addicts are vulnerable to being crime victims is because they are less likely to report crimes. At least that's been my experience in years or working with and observing victims. The abduction and drugging of the girl should have been taken seriously and investigated vigorously and if the mother was guilty of drunkenness and failure to protect, then so be it.

[Nawny]

Don't have a problem with the second autopsy if it ensures that the prosecution and defense will be by the book. No one wants a mistake that will keep this case in court for years and keep Sandra's family and friends and the community from receiving justice for the crime. What I do have a problem with is when the second autopsy was asked for. The defense should have made damned sure that they had the information that they needed before Sandra was entombed.

Find it hard to believe that animals and/or decomposition are likely to be responsible for any penetration or wounds that would have led LE and the ME to conclude that Sandra was raped; it's possible that the instrument has been recovered and contains forensic evidence.

Bipolar or whatever mental illness Huckaby is plagued with could very well be what was behind her though process when the crime occurred, but it's not an excuse. She's an adult who not only had a (apparently poor and enabling) support system, but she was court ordered for either evaluation or treatment. (It's hard to tell from reports if it was one or the other or both.) Not sure what led the judge to write the order, but it should not have been delayed. I find it irresponsible that Preacher Lawless gave this woman a job at the church although it doesn't appear that she harmed any other children, and she wasn't Sandra's Sunday school teacher, so she apparently didn't use her authority in that position to prey on Sandra.

What astounds me most about this case is not that a woman and mother is the perpetrator, but that people seem to refuse that a woman and mother can possibly be capable and responsible.


ITA. Your post was enlightening and irrefutable. The point about her being evaluated is a good one and sadly the psychiatric care she was getting before the murder wasn't up to snuff. Shrinks are getting lazy. (Another sign of America's poor work force in motion- my pet peeve)

As for society not wanting to believe women do these things; we are getting over that in a big hurry. We're waking up. Pretty mothers do kill children. Is it in the damn water? I personally have felt the pressure on my ideals lately. :flamemad:

[javahog]

Hey....had a loooong weekend, so didn't get online much. Just wanted to respond to a couple of things I just read catching up, and had actually been thinking about for awhile now. I'll probably get flamed to bits, but this is how I see it.

First, the second autopsy. I don't know if any of you have read the actual request, but apparently the defense attorneys, in fact the entire defender's office, had not received ANY evidence at the time the request was made. I'm guessing that they waited as long as they felt they could, so they could review the autopsy report and questioning tapes, but needed to get it moving due to the condition of the body. Now, don't get me wrong, my first reaction was "WHAT???", but this is something that has to be done. Truthfully, they don't even know what was found during the autopsy, if anything. It says something to the effect that because rape was added as a special circumstance, they have to assume that either something was found in the autopsy, MH said something during interrogation, or both. Because they don't have the autopsy report, they have to assume some mention was made of damage to the body that would give the ME reason to suspect sexual assault, and that another ME should look at it to see if there could be any other cause (damage while trying to dispose of the body comes to mind, or from decomp, etc...I would guess it is safe to say animals would have caused anything). By not requesting this I think that the defense attorney would not be doing his job.

Second, someone made some comment about how everyone claims bipolar, and how it is a cop-out. I had mentioned awhile back that she shows a lot of signs of bipolar disorder, and that could explain the "unexplainable", but it certainly isn't an excuse. In most instances, bipolar mania would certainly NOT meet California state law for an insanity plea, and probably wouldn't even drop the charge to 2nd degree murder. Just thought I'd point that out.

Third, while I trust that Tracy PD and the FBI have conducted an exemplary investigation, and they have a lot of facts we do not have, AND they are confident (and probably rightly so) that she did it, here in the US we have this thing called innocent until proven guilty. As careful as Tracy PD was to prevent trial by media, this seems to be getting tossed out the window, again.

Now, do I think she did it? I don't know. I don't WANT to think she did it, but as careful as LE seemed to be about this one, things don't look too good for her. However, I can't help but wonder at times if she opened her big mouth a few too many times, and told a few to many tall tales, and got herself into too much trouble. I'm guessing that she knows what happened, at the very least, and I would not doubt that she disposed of the body, or helped dispose of it, or knew where it was and went there at some point. Or, she may have done everything LE is claiming she did, and more. I just don't know. I, like everyone else, will have to wait for the trial to see the evidence.

As for her mental health status, that will have to wait for trial, as well. There is something called HIPAA that makes it illegal to release health information, and that includes psychiatric records. So, unless a family member or friend spills the beans, we won't know.

Now, before y'all start throwing rotten veggies at my, think of it this way. This most likely will be a death penalty case. What happens if the autopsy happens to be wrong, and Sandra was NOT raped, and the death was some kind of accident (she was run over, they were goofing around and she hit her head, etc.), and MH panicked, made some really dumb choices, and hid the body, told the lies, etc. that put her where she is today. Wrong, yes. Horrible, yes. Illegal, oh yeah. But worth the death penalty? Come on.

Also, what if, as remote as it may seem, she didn't do it at all? Truthfully, I think it would be worse to have the wrong person executed than never catching the right person at all. I think everyone needs to step back and take a deep breath. We are all really furious about what happened to this little girl, but let's not try MH before she even gets her say in court.

I thought a lot about this over the weekend, and something about the tone of every discussion about MH really bothered me. Not just here, and not just online....every conversation was similar. I realized that MH has just as much of a right to a fair trial as I do. I try to put myself or a loved one (I have a cousin who actually is bipolar) in her position...being frightened, confused, and alone. I tried to look at it from the perspective of someone who did NOT do what was being accused, and for whatever reason was compelled to tell some pretty big lies which ended up backfiring....whether it was self destructive or impulsive or just plain stupid, it doesn't matter...I would not want everyone to believe what was being told to them and coming to a conclusion without me/my relative not being able to say anything to refute it. So, as hard as it is, I'm now trying to remain objective about it, and will be waiting for the trial to make a final decision. I would hope for the same for me if I were in that position.

I'll be a little less offended about the second autopsy if they withdraw the request upon receiving the report. I believe they expect the request to be denied, and are going to use it as a possible appealable issue if she's convicted. And that is why I believe they waited until she was buried, to virtually guarantee a denial. And as for a mistake as to whether she was assaulted or not, there is not a lot in a cattle urine pond that could cause post-mortem genital trauma.

Bipolar: it's a cop-out for the family and friends, imo. After the fact, they all seem to suddenly say, but she's bipolar! I can't think why anyone would use bi-polar as a defense in California...

As for the presumption of innocence and needing to take a deep breath, this IS a crime board where we look at the evidence and tend to come to conclusions, but there is also a reason most of us incorporate "imo" when expressing such. We do not have all the evidence, only what is released or sniffed out by the press. But these are opinions, we are not a jury, nor are we the press, and that is always pretty clear. That is what a trial is for, and we will learn everything there.

And finally, to use your analogy, if someone accidently runs over a child, stuffs her body in a suitcase, and dumps her in a cattle run-off pond, I would HOPE she feels frightened and alone. Whatever happened here, its disgusting.

No rotten vegetables being thrown!

[javahog]

From what I've read, the mother had alcohol on her breath, but I've never read that she was immediately reported or given a BAL. The hospital certainly should have reported the mother for public intox and/or for driving the child to the hospital. But for the hospital or LE to pooh pooh the mother's claims because of alcohol use seems criminal in itself. And if her use crosses the line to abuse it's even worse; Huckaby could well have chosen this girl because her mother would be less able to deal with the repercussions. One of the reasons that addicts are vulnerable to being crime victims is because they are less likely to report crimes. At least that's been my experience in years or working with and observing victims. The abduction and drugging of the girl should have been taken seriously and investigated vigorously and if the mother was guilty of drunkenness and failure to protect, then so be it.

My understanding was that when the officer's took the report, they noted that there was alcohol on the mother's breath. I just picture them heading off to the car, laughing it off. I hope this is pursued...

[Nawny]

From what I've read, the mother had alcohol on her breath, but I've never read that she was immediately reported or given a BAL. The hospital certainly should have reported the mother for public intox and/or for driving the child to the hospital. But for the hospital or LE to pooh pooh the mother's claims because of alcohol use seems criminal in itself. And if her use crosses the line to abuse it's even worse; Huckaby could well have chosen this girl because her mother would be less able to deal with the repercussions. One of the reasons that addicts are vulnerable to being crime victims is because they are less likely to report crimes. At least that's been my experience in years or working with and observing victims. The abduction and drugging of the girl should have been taken seriously and investigated vigorously and if the mother was guilty of drunkenness and failure to protect, then so be it.

I'm with you on both matters. Bless your heart Loretta, you have seen so much, so much sadness and I thank you as a member of society for being part of the change we need to see in this world! God love you. :rose:

[lorettalockhorn]

My understanding was that when the officer's took the report, they noted that there was alcohol on the mother's breath. I just picture them heading off to the car, laughing it off. I hope this is pursued...

I hope the abduction drugging case is pursued too, it could give insight to what happened to Sandra. As for the first (that we know of) victim's mother, if failure to protect didn't play a part in her daughter's abduction, I would hope that the alcohol use that day would go away. She had her bearings enough to do the right thing. Sounds like it was the sober as a judge officers who failed.

Tandarat, I second Java's statement: no rotten veggies being thrown here!

[Nawny]

I agree with the post that mentioned the people who make themselves vulnerable with the abuse of drugs and alcohol. That's clear t me, but those perps who want a particular kid, if they are at all selective (which I don't know) don't care who the parents are or what they indulge in. They find a way to get the kid. It seems though, that they gain more opportunity when the mother is not alert, I agree fully!

I can't find the post I mentioned... I have laundry on my mind. :punch: me. Save me, where are the servants???

[lorettalockhorn]

Missed it at the end of Prime News or beginning of JVM, but I think there was talk that the defense may have withdrawn the request to have Sandra Cantu's body undergo a second autopsy.

Also, didn't see Larry King last night, but JVM's THs are talking about a couple of issues that were discussed. One of the things that Jean Casarez mentioned (LOVE her!) is that even though MH was never arrested or convicted, if the situation is similar to the seven year old's abduction, it can be brought into court as a prior bad act.

Anyway, a couple of interesting blurbs from LKL, 4/20/00:

...KING: No. Suspicions about the child, what happened to this child, was a crime committed against this child, etc.?

SHENEMAN: If there was probable cause to make an arrest at that time, an arrest would have been made.

KING: So there wasn't probable cause, even though we keep hearing about things inside her body that shouldn't have been there?

SHENEMAN: That's correct.

KING: All right.

Was the fact that her mother had been drinking, did that change the position of the police department?

SHENEMAN: That would have had no bearing on any of the police officers' actions. We would be concerned, as we were, for the well- being of the child. And the condition of the parents have no -- have no input on that whatsoever....

&

...KING: Dr. Wecht, what do you read out of this, doctor?

DR. CYRIL WECHT, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Well, I agree with the previous comment.

I'd like add this, Larry, that the law enforcement agents were guilty of malpractice because musculoskeletal relaxants in the little girl came from somewhere. So the fact that the mother had alcohol on her breath did not excuse or immunize her from child abuse, from improper maternal care. And that should have been followed through, whether it was from Melissa Huckaby or whether it was from the mother. To have let the girl go because they did not give credence to the mother's story was very, very unfortunate.

With regard to this case of Sandra Cantu, you know, this age group, Larry, between six and 12, 13 is considered to be about the safest group among children insofar as violence is concerned. We see all the forms of child abuse, infant abuse and then into the teenagers...

KING: Yes, but...

WECHT: -- and when things -- but this age is usually a relatively safe one... KING: Except...

WECHT: And this case just cries out for -- KING: Except for miss Cantu.

WECHT: ...for individual attention....

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0904/20/lkl.01.html

[lorettalockhorn]

I agree with the post that mentioned the people who make themselves vulnerable with the abuse of drugs and alcohol. That's clear t me, but those perps who want a particular kid, if they are at all selective (which I don't know) don't care who the parents are or what they indulge in. They find a way to get the kid. It seems though, that they gain more opportunity when the mother is not alert, I agree fully!

I can't find the post I mentioned... I have laundry on my mind. :punch: me. Save me, where are the servants???

Aww Dana, I woulda helped you with the laundry! Well, the washing and drying and folding. Someone else has to put it away! :hat:

[Nawny]

Missed it at the end of Prime News or beginning of JVM, but I think there was talk that the defense may have withdrawn the request to have Sandra Cantu's body undergo a second autopsy.

Also, didn't see Larry King last night, but JVM's THs are talking about a couple of issues that were discussed. One of the things that Jean Casarez mentioned (LOVE her!) is that even though MH was never arrested or convicted, if the situation is similar to the seven year old's abduction, it can be brought into court as a prior bad act.

Anyway, a couple of interesting blurbs from LKL, 4/20/00:

...KING: No. Suspicions about the child, what happened to this child, was a crime committed against this child, etc.?

SHENEMAN: If there was probable cause to make an arrest at that time, an arrest would have been made.

KING: So there wasn't probable cause, even though we keep hearing about things inside her body that shouldn't have been there?

SHENEMAN: That's correct.

KING: All right.

Was the fact that her mother had been drinking, did that change the position of the police department?

SHENEMAN: That would have had no bearing on any of the police officers' actions. We would be concerned, as we were, for the well- being of the child. And the condition of the parents have no -- have no input on that whatsoever....

&

...KING: Dr. Wecht, what do you read out of this, doctor?

DR. CYRIL WECHT, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Well, I agree with the previous comment.

I'd like add this, Larry, that the law enforcement agents were guilty of malpractice because musculoskeletal relaxants in the little girl came from somewhere. So the fact that the mother had alcohol on her breath did not excuse or immunize her from child abuse, from improper maternal care. And that should have been followed through, whether it was from Melissa Huckaby or whether it was from the mother. To have let the girl go because they did not give credence to the mother's story was very, very unfortunate.

With regard to this case of Sandra Cantu, you know, this age group, Larry, between six and 12, 13 is considered to be about the safest group among children insofar as violence is concerned. We see all the forms of child abuse, infant abuse and then into the teenagers...

KING: Yes, but...

WECHT: -- and when things -- but this age is usually a relatively safe one... KING: Except...

WECHT: And this case just cries out for -- KING: Except for miss Cantu.

WECHT: ...for individual attention....

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0904/20/lkl.01.html


I saw that segment but it was god to re visit it. Thanks Loretta. Nawny loves Larry King!

[Nawny]

Aww Dana, I woulda helped you with the laundry! Well, the washing and drying and folding. Someone else has to put it away! :hat:

ROTFL! Well that's no help! That's the part I hate the most! :cuss: The worst of it all is, in a day or two I'll be washing the same items and a few days after that, I have to do it again and on and on and on. But my confession is, I absolutely love clean fresh sweet smelling whites. There are so many great new fabric softeners these days. I especially like the Lavender Downy.. mmmm, it smells so beautiful!

But I dread doing laundry entirely! I want those servants to get home. They have real careers now days and it's just not right. ;)

[tandarat]

[/B]

I read your post late last night and was tired and not sure what your point was. With a clear head and halfway through my first coffee I think you're trying to defend a disorder that gets thrown around a lot in cases like this.
These kind of crimes defy our human capacity to understand. Some need a label. I have two points to make. 1.) If she did not act alone, she'd be the first one to say so. She'd like to get out of jail. ;) And, 2.) Bi polar disorder is NOT an answer to, "why" she killed.

I'm not expert on the chemicals in our brains that make it malfunction, and delete the conduit to the making of good sense. But I do know that some legendary greats had this disorder, including Abraham Lincoln. So that label is dead in the water. So you're right. IMO.

I wasn't trying to "defend" anything, really. In terms of bipolar, I'm guessing that she MAY have it, but it does NOT excuse what she did. If she does have it, it obviously is not the only issue she has.

I was tired, too, and was repeatedly interrupted by my daughter AND husband, AND I have lupus which requires regular treatment or my mind gets kind of fuzzy and it is difficult to explain myself (and I'm over a month overdue...blech), so....it is probably my fault that you didn't get it.

I think my MAIN point, and the thing that is bugging the heck out of me, is that we (myself included here) have been assuming since she was arrested that she is guilty, without seeing all the evidence, knowing what was going through her mind (was she lying for attention, is she trying to protect someone, did she really do it and was in panic mode or denial, etc.), or what actually caused the police to not only arrest her, but to say that it was ONLY her, and that a sexual assault occurred. I realized that this is wrong, and at this point I'm going to try to look at ALL sides of this case, including her being guilty as charged, as a theory only, and not absolute fact. That's all. It is not fair to anyone in the case, especially Sandra. What if, against all odds, MH is NOT guilty of this crime, and she is convicted and eventually executed, while Sandra's killer goes free, probably to kill again.

The bipolar thing was that I don't believe that people are trying to use that as a get out of jail free card. If that were the case, she'd have better luck trying to claim schizophrenia.

I'm not saying everyone here is wrong or anything like that. We are all outraged, and justifiably so. I'm just saying that we should not be blinded by all that is going on right now. Does that make sense?

[Nawny]

I wasn't trying to "defend" anything, really. In terms of bipolar, I'm guessing that she MAY have it, but it does NOT excuse what she did. If she does have it, it obviously is not the only issue she has.

I was tired, too, and was repeatedly interrupted by my daughter AND husband, AND I have lupus which requires regular treatment or my mind gets kind of fuzzy and it is difficult to explain myself (and I'm over a month overdue...blech), so....it is probably my fault that you didn't get it.

I think my MAIN point, and the thing that is bugging the heck out of me, is that we (myself included here) have been assuming since she was arrested that she is guilty, without seeing all the evidence, knowing what was going through her mind (was she lying for attention, is she trying to protect someone, did she really do it and was in panic mode or denial, etc.), or what actually caused the police to not only arrest her, but to say that it was ONLY her, and that a sexual assault occurred. I realized that this is wrong, and at this point I'm going to try to look at ALL sides of this case, including her being guilty as charged, as a theory only, and not absolute fact. That's all. It is not fair to anyone in the case, especially Sandra. What if, against all odds, MH is NOT guilty of this crime, and she is convicted and eventually executed, while Sandra's killer goes free, probably to kill again.

The bipolar thing was that I don't believe that people are trying to use that as a get out of jail free card. If that were the case, she'd have better luck trying to claim schizophrenia.

I'm not saying everyone here is wrong or anything like that. We are all outraged, and justifiably so. I'm just saying that we should not be blinded by all that is going on right now. Does that make sense?

Sure it makes sense tan. :) I understand that you are afraid she may get death because she's covering or because she may not be guilty at all. I get that part. And of course you have every right as a respected poster to have an opinion here. Fortunately, we post without arguments on this forum. It's a great place to write out your thoughts. Sometimes its cathartic. I wont' attack you for thinking she might be innocent. However, gathering from the mighty media what I have so far, she's done something very bad. The only thing I want to know is, why. (Not if)

My problem with these people who murder kids is, the LEGAL definition of insanity.

[tandarat]

I'll be a little less offended about the second autopsy if they withdraw the request upon receiving the report. I believe they expect the request to be denied, and are going to use it as a possible appealable issue if she's convicted. And that is why I believe they waited until she was buried, to virtually guarantee a denial. And as for a mistake as to whether she was assaulted or not, there is not a lot in a cattle urine pond that could cause post-mortem genital trauma.

Bipolar: it's a cop-out for the family and friends, imo. After the fact, they all seem to suddenly say, but she's bipolar! I can't think why anyone would use bi-polar as a defense in California...

As for the presumption of innocence and needing to take a deep breath, this IS a crime board where we look at the evidence and tend to come to conclusions, but there is also a reason most of us incorporate "imo" when expressing such. We do not have all the evidence, only what is released or sniffed out by the press. But these are opinions, we are not a jury, nor are we the press, and that is always pretty clear. That is what a trial is for, and we will learn everything there.

And finally, to use your analogy, if someone accidently runs over a child, stuffs her body in a suitcase, and dumps her in a cattle run-off pond, I would HOPE she feels frightened and alone. Whatever happened here, its disgusting.

No rotten vegetables being thrown!

I think the problem was that at the time they made the request, they had not yet received the report. They don't even know if genital trauma was part of the findings, but they stated that because of the charges, they had to assume it was.

I'm guessing that there was some pretty severe decomp. Decomposition is worse where there is trauma, but by its very nature it can end up masking what actually caused the trauma. Not intending to be graphic, but things can happen to a body post mortem that could cause trauma to the genital area, especially if she was trying to pack the body into a suitcase or tried other ways to hide the body first. One other horrifying thought is that she caused the trauma to make it LOOK like someone had abused Sandra, and throw investigators off the trail. Just considering that makes me a bit nauseous, and I sure hope that isn't the case, but wouldn't that be considered defiling a corpse and not rape? I know, splitting hairs, but it would take away at least one of the special enhancements.

And yes, I realize this is a crime board, but I have been feeling a little uneasy about how I reacted to this whole thing, and wanted to vent ;). I'm pretty sure everyone on here is a good person. (Why else would they come here, right?)

And yes, if she had ANYTHING to do with this whole thing at all (and I'm pretty sure she did, especially with her alleged confession), her actions were vile, selfish, and disgusting, not to mention disturbing.

[lorettalockhorn]

I wasn't trying to "defend" anything, really. In terms of bipolar, I'm guessing that she MAY have it, but it does NOT excuse what she did. If she does have it, it obviously is not the only issue she has.

I was tired, too, and was repeatedly interrupted by my daughter AND husband, AND I have lupus which requires regular treatment or my mind gets kind of fuzzy and it is difficult to explain myself (and I'm over a month overdue...blech), so....it is probably my fault that you didn't get it.

I think my MAIN point, and the thing that is bugging the heck out of me, is that we (myself included here) have been assuming since she was arrested that she is guilty, without seeing all the evidence, knowing what was going through her mind (was she lying for attention, is she trying to protect someone, did she really do it and was in panic mode or denial, etc.), or what actually caused the police to not only arrest her, but to say that it was ONLY her, and that a sexual assault occurred. I realized that this is wrong, and at this point I'm going to try to look at ALL sides of this case, including her being guilty as charged, as a theory only, and not absolute fact. That's all. It is not fair to anyone in the case, especially Sandra. What if, against all odds, MH is NOT guilty of this crime, and she is convicted and eventually executed, while Sandra's killer goes free, probably to kill again.

The bipolar thing was that I don't believe that people are trying to use that as a get out of jail free card. If that were the case, she'd have better luck trying to claim schizophrenia.

I'm not saying everyone here is wrong or anything like that. We are all outraged, and justifiably so. I'm just saying that we should not be blinded by all that is going on right now. Does that make sense?

What you're saying makes perfect sense to me, whether I agree or not! :hat: You've got to realize that a huge part of why there is even the slightest presumption of guilt at this point is due to MH herself as it is assumed that she admitted to some part of this crime. As for the sexual assault/rape, the defense has pretty much let the cat out of the bag on that score; something existed that could be tested for, hence the request for the second autopsy, and you really have to wonder if that was part of Huckaby's confession. I'll be somewhat surprised if LE doesn't have the instrument that was used in the rape and if it doesn't have Melissa's DNA or fingerprints all over it. IF Melissa admitted to killing Sandra (accident or not) and the rape caused her death, then that settles a couple of issues in one fell swoop.

Take care with the lupus, and darn our families for interrupting us when we're writing a legal brief or solving cases. The little ones, now that's okay, but hubbies should know better!

[lorettalockhorn]

I think the problem was that at the time they made the request, they had not yet received the report. They don't even know if genital trauma was part of the findings, but they stated that because of the charges, they had to assume it was.

I'm guessing that there was some pretty severe decomp. Decomposition is worse where there is trauma, but by its very nature it can end up masking what actually caused the trauma. Not intending to be graphic, but things can happen to a body post mortem that could cause trauma to the genital area, especially if she was trying to pack the body into a suitcase or tried other ways to hide the body first. One other horrifying thought is that she caused the trauma to make it LOOK like someone had abused Sandra, and throw investigators off the trail. Just considering that makes me a bit nauseous, and I sure hope that isn't the case, but wouldn't that be considered defiling a corpse and not rape? I know, splitting hairs, but it would take away at least one of the special enhancements.

And yes, I realize this is a crime board, but I have been feeling a little uneasy about how I reacted to this whole thing, and wanted to vent ;). I'm pretty sure everyone on here is a good person. (Why else would they come here, right?)

And yes, if she had ANYTHING to do with this whole thing at all (and I'm pretty sure she did, especially with her alleged confession), her actions were vile, selfish, and disgusting, not to mention disturbing.

I honestly cannot think of any way that packing a child into a suitcase would cause genital trauma. And if MH perpetrated some sort of phony abuse on Sandra to make it appear as though she had been abused, that IS abuse. If the ME gave LE any indication that whatever trauma or mutilation (depending on how severe the injuries were) occurred after death, I feel relatively sure that Huckaby will be charged with abuse of a corpse.

[JLette]

What you're saying makes perfect sense to me, whether I agree or not! :hat: You've got to realize that a huge part of why there is even the slightest presumption of guilt at this point is due to MH herself as it is assumed that she admitted to some part of this crime. As for the sexual assault/rape, the defense has pretty much let the cat out of the bag on that score; something existed that could be tested for, hence the request for the second autopsy, and you really have to wonder if that was part of Huckaby's confession. I'll be somewhat surprised if LE doesn't have the instrument that was used in the rape and if it doesn't have Melissa's DNA or fingerprints all over it. IF Melissa admitted to killing Sandra (accident or not) and the rape caused her death, then that settles a couple of issues in one fell swoop.

Take care with the lupus, and darn our families for interrupting us when we're writing a legal brief or solving cases. The little ones, now that's okay, but hubbies should know better!

were there any other items in the suitcase with her i wonder, like perhaps ANYTHING else that MH may have used in the crime, because i remember when they first found her, on the news they were commenting about how ALL of Sandra's clothes even down to her flip flops were there, and i think i heard something theorized on HLN that maybe the killer was trying to make sure that nothing was left to tie him/her to the crime. so maybe she put EVERYTHING involved in that suitcase and dumped it, that would explain why they are so SURE that it was a foreign object

[tandarat]

were there any other items in the suitcase with her i wonder, like perhaps ANYTHING else that MH may have used in the crime, because i remember when they first found her, on the news they were commenting about how ALL of Sandra's clothes even down to her flip flops were there, and i think i heard something theorized on HLN that maybe the killer was trying to make sure that nothing was left to tie him/her to the crime. so maybe she put EVERYTHING involved in that suitcase and dumped it, that would explain why they are so SURE that it was a foreign object

Did I read somewhere that her keys and cell phone were found in the suitcase? Oops. Of course that could be explained away if she really did lose them. I've put mine in stranger places. Of course, if they are sure she did it, then it would HAVE to be rape with a foreign object, wouldn't it? Unless she isn't, if you get my meaning. I think that would have been out by now, though.

[tandarat]

I honestly cannot think of any way that packing a child into a suitcase would cause genital trauma. And if MH perpetrated some sort of phony abuse on Sandra to make it appear as though she had been abused, that IS abuse. If the ME gave LE any indication that whatever trauma or mutilation (depending on how severe the injuries were) occurred after death, I feel relatively sure that Huckaby will be charged with abuse of a corpse.

I don't know at what point it is difficult or impossible to tell if damage was caused before or after death, especially soft tissue damage. If it occurs close to death, I'm guessing evidence would be obliterated much sooner, since the way the body bleeds and bruises is what will give it away. Once the blood and other soft tissue has degraded, I'm guessing it will be difficult to tell unless there was a lot of bleeding, broken bones, etc.

[JLette]

Did I read somewhere that her keys and cell phone were found in the suitcase? Oops. Of course that could be explained away if she really did lose them. I've put mine in stranger places. Of course, if they are sure she did it, then it would HAVE to be rape with a foreign object, wouldn't it? Unless she isn't, if you get my meaning. I think that would have been out by now, though.

:eek: yikes lol!!!

i was thinking more along the lines of another little snip i heard on HLN the other day about how she was dating this weirdo guy who lived in that same park. like maybe if they DIDN'T find something in the suitcase then they would have been looking for a male accomplice possibly. i also heard at some point that she was looked at or being looked at now for involvement in child porn?

[lorettalockhorn]

Did I read somewhere that her keys and cell phone were found in the suitcase? Oops. Of course that could be explained away if she really did lose them. I've put mine in stranger places. Of course, if they are sure she did it, then it would HAVE to be rape with a foreign object, wouldn't it? Unless she isn't, if you get my meaning. I think that would have been out by now, though.

I'll suppose that in California as in other states the use of the phrase "foreign object" is to differentiate rape by (penal or digital) penetration by a male or digital penetration in the case of a female.

[tandarat]

I honestly cannot think of any way that packing a child into a suitcase would cause genital trauma. And if MH perpetrated some sort of phony abuse on Sandra to make it appear as though she had been abused, that IS abuse. If the ME gave LE any indication that whatever trauma or mutilation (depending on how severe the injuries were) occurred after death, I feel relatively sure that Huckaby will be charged with abuse of a corpse.

True. I'm just having a difficult time accepting the rape charge, so I'm looking for other possibilities. The other stuff I can believe, especially the drugging bit. For some reason that just "fits" for me.

And, truthfully, we don't know if there was genital trauma. According to the paperwork filed, the defense team had not received the autopsy report NOR transcripts/tapes of any interviews, so they are essentially working blind, or only on what MH has told them. We all know how reliable THAT information is.

If MH was rough while trying get Sandra in the suitcase, she could have dropped her, caught her groin area somehow, etc. She also could have tried to hide her first, and the damage was caused then. If it was something like Sandra being hit/backed over by a car, THAT can cause trauma in the pelvic region without breaking bones. My husband was hit by a car as a child and was told that if he had not recently urinated, his bladder would have ruptured, which could have killed him. It had something to do with the way he was hit. He did break his leg, but it would have been all soft tissue damage in his pelvic region. If the body had decomposed enough, damage such as this could cause speculation of internal damage caused by rape. I am not an expert, so this is completely speculation on my part, but I'd guess it is possible, no?

They have not released information on how long they felt she was in the pond, so perhaps she was left elsewhere first, and animals got to her? MH could then have gotten scared, or some other reason, and dumped Sandra in the pond at a later date.

Again, just looking at possibilities.

[tandarat]

:eek: yikes lol!!!

i was thinking more along the lines of another little snip i heard on HLN the other day about how she was dating this weirdo guy who lived in that same park. like maybe if they DIDN'T find something in the suitcase then they would have been looking for a male accomplice possibly. i also heard at some point that she was looked at or being looked at now for involvement in child porn?

I think the child porn thing was just a rumor that was put down by LE last week sometime. I believe they had mentioned before MH was arrested that they found a lot of people in Tracy who were trading child porn over the internet. My understanding was that they do NOT believe she was involved with child porn.

The only rumor that has pretty much held was the report that another child in her custody was found to have prescription medication in her system. THAT doesn't look good for her if it is true, but it also doesn't necessarily mean that she molested the girl, either.

I wonder if they'll be calling that little girl back in to do a full physical examination on her to see if there is any evidence of molestation. If there is.....

[tandarat]

:eek: yikes lol!!!

i was thinking more along the lines of another little snip i heard on HLN the other day about how she was dating this weirdo guy who lived in that same park. like maybe if they DIDN'T find something in the suitcase then they would have been looking for a male accomplice possibly. i also heard at some point that she was looked at or being looked at now for involvement in child porn?

If it was the weirdo guy, foreign object would still be possible. I'm still not completely convinced no male was involved if a rape did take place. Again, just me struggling with the whole idea at the moment. Oh, to be able to go through the evidence and see for myself...

[lorettalockhorn]

True. I'm just having a difficult time accepting the rape charge, so I'm looking for other possibilities. The other stuff I can believe, especially the drugging bit. For some reason that just "fits" for me.

And, truthfully, we don't know if there was genital trauma. According to the paperwork filed, the defense team had not received the autopsy report NOR transcripts/tapes of any interviews, so they are essentially working blind, or only on what MH has told them. We all know how reliable THAT information is.

If MH was rough while trying get Sandra in the suitcase, she could have dropped her, caught her groin area somehow, etc. She also could have tried to hide her first, and the damage was caused then. If it was something like Sandra being hit/backed over by a car, THAT can cause trauma in the pelvic region without breaking bones. My husband was hit by a car as a child and was told that if he had not recently urinated, his bladder would have ruptured, which could have killed him. It had something to do with the way he was hit. He did break his leg, but it would have been all soft tissue damage in his pelvic region. If the body had decomposed enough, damage such as this could cause speculation of internal damage caused by rape. I am not an expert, so this is completely speculation on my part, but I'd guess it is possible, no?

They have not released information on how long they felt she was in the pond, so perhaps she was left elsewhere first, and animals got to her? MH could then have gotten scared, or some other reason, and dumped Sandra in the pond at a later date.

Again, just looking at possibilities.

I don't have trouble accepting the rape charge. Although unusual for a woman to act alone, it's not unheard of or impossible and don't understand why people refuse to believe it can and does happen. Not sure where the idea of genital trauma came from, but there is no confusing genital trauma with groin trauma.

And if Huckaby has given information to investigators it's hard to believe that she hasn't given the same (if not more) information to the defense. I find it hard to imagine that animals could account for forensics that would lead the ME to assume that a rape has occurred.

[One2Snoop]

True. I'm just having a difficult time accepting the rape charge, so I'm looking for other possibilities. The other stuff I can believe, especially the drugging bit. For some reason that just "fits" for me.

And, truthfully, we don't know if there was genital trauma. According to the paperwork filed, the defense team had not received the autopsy report NOR transcripts/tapes of any interviews, so they are essentially working blind, or only on what MH has told them. We all know how reliable THAT information is.

If MH was rough while trying get Sandra in the suitcase, she could have dropped her, caught her groin area somehow, etc. She also could have tried to hide her first, and the damage was caused then. If it was something like Sandra being hit/backed over by a car, THAT can cause trauma in the pelvic region without breaking bones. My husband was hit by a car as a child and was told that if he had not recently urinated, his bladder would have ruptured, which could have killed him. It had something to do with the way he was hit. He did break his leg, but it would have been all soft tissue damage in his pelvic region. If the body had decomposed enough, damage such as this could cause speculation of internal damage caused by rape. I am not an expert, so this is completely speculation on my part, but I'd guess it is possible, no?

They have not released information on how long they felt she was in the pond, so perhaps she was left elsewhere first, and animals got to her? MH could then have gotten scared, or some other reason, and dumped Sandra in the pond at a later date.

Again, just looking at possibilities.


http://www.tracypress.com/pages/full_story?page_label=home&id=2316290-UPDATE-+Charges+rattle+suspect&article-UPDATE-%20Charges%20rattle%20suspect%20=&widget=push&instance=home_most_popular&open=&


Prosecutors Tuesday morning filed charges of murder with special circumstances of kidnapping, lewd or lascivious acts with a child and rape by a foreign object.

I don't see how it can be any of the things you listed - its fairly clear to me that LE says Sandra was raped.

[old_soul]

Don't know the specifics of her mental incapacity, but it's obvious MH has a penchant for this sort of thing. Like the 7 year old in January that she had for 4 hours and came home drugged, think about the reason why anyone would do this...to incapacitate the child. Then we ask why? So she wouldn't remember? So she would be easier to manipulate? Tandarat, According to the autopsy, Sandra was raped ~ no assuming there...it's in evidence, and you are correct One2 & Loretta.

I believe Sanda was also possibly drugged, and we'll know that soon enough (when are the tox reports expected back?) A thorough investigation is due for the prior incident, and I'll bet she was also molested with a foreign object. I would only hope she cannot remember for her own sake. Tracy LE dropped the ball on that one....

MH's ex has said their 5 year old is somewhere safe, but I hope they have examined this child thoroughly ~ God only knows what She might have already been through. Wacko b***h should not have even been allowed to have a child ~ never mind teaching Sunday school.



Loretta, whay do you think it might have been done post mortem? Fill me in, I'm curious..........

[lorettalockhorn]

Don't know the specifics of her mental incapacity, but it's obvious MH has a penchant for this sort of thing. Like the 7 year old in January that she had for 4 hours and came home drugged, think about the reason why anyone would do this...to incapacitate the child. Then we ask why? So she wouldn't remember? So she would be easier to manipulate? Tandarat, According to the autopsy, Sandra was raped ~ no assuming there...it's in evidence, and you are correct One2 & Loretta.

I believe Sanda was also possibly drugged, and we'll know that soon enough (when are the tox reports expected back?) A thorough investigation is due for the prior incident, and I'll bet she was also molested with a foreign object. I would only hope she cannot remember for her own sake. Tracy LE dropped the ball on that one....

MH's ex has said their 5 year old is somewhere safe, but I hope they have examined this child thoroughly ~ God only knows what She might have already been through. Wacko b***h should not have even been allowed to have a child ~ never mind teaching Sunday school.



Loretta, whay do you think it might have been done post mortem? Fill me in, I'm curious..........

I DON'T think whatever might "look like rape" was done postmortem. Not in the least; I was replying to Tandarat that IF whatever might have possibly been confused as rape was done postmortem, it would still be abuse.

I think that it's possible that the rape is what caused Sandra's death. And don't believe for a minute that placing her in the suitcase or being in the biomass area or decomposition or animals caused any sort of rape type injury that fooled a ME.

[old_soul]

I DON'T think whatever might "look like rape" was done postmortem. Not in the least; I was replying to Tandarat that IF whatever might have possibly been confused as rape was done postmortem, it would still be abuse.

I think that it's possible that the rape is what caused Sandra's death. And don't believe for a minute that placing her in the suitcase or being in the biomass area or decomposition or animals caused any sort of rape type injury that fooled a ME.

Ah, yes my dear, I just reread your post...gotcha. You might have something there, about the rape being the reason. Preforated bowel, as mentioned earlier, or the other possibily would be the drug inducement. I thought that might come into play too because of the drug the 7 year old was given, which I understand can cause death in children with an overdose.

Both horrible thoughts, and I still want to kick her fricken a**. Big time.


:rose:

[javahog]

If it was the weirdo guy, foreign object would still be possible. I'm still not completely convinced no male was involved if a rape did take place. Again, just me struggling with the whole idea at the moment. Oh, to be able to go through the evidence and see for myself...

It all goes to rape being more about power and anger than sexual gratification. Most women, imo, who have a horrible traumatic experience internalize it and do themselves harm, rather than externalizing it onto someone else. I can imagine that a woman could do more the "man" thing and do this, though its virtually unheard of...

[tandarat]

Don't know the specifics of her mental incapacity, but it's obvious MH has a penchant for this sort of thing. Like the 7 year old in January that she had for 4 hours and came home drugged, think about the reason why anyone would do this...to incapacitate the child. Then we ask why? So she wouldn't remember? So she would be easier to manipulate? Tandarat, According to the autopsy, Sandra was raped ~ no assuming there...it's in evidence, and you are correct One2 & Loretta.

I believe Sanda was also possibly drugged, and we'll know that soon enough (when are the tox reports expected back?) A thorough investigation is due for the prior incident, and I'll bet she was also molested with a foreign object. I would only hope she cannot remember for her own sake. Tracy LE dropped the ball on that one....

MH's ex has said their 5 year old is somewhere safe, but I hope they have examined this child thoroughly ~ God only knows what She might have already been through. Wacko b***h should not have even been allowed to have a child ~ never mind teaching Sunday school.



Loretta, whay do you think it might have been done post mortem? Fill me in, I'm curious..........

This is what I keep trying to say....this information has NOT been released. According to the motion filed, the defense team did not even have that information, at least at that time. It is kind of a moot point, now, since they dropped the request for a second autopsy. Apparently the ME saved enough tissue samples for a second pathologist to get the information needed. See, not all defense attorneys are evil little swine - just the highly paid ones:D.

It's late, and I just couldn't sleep, so I thought I'd check in, but tomorrow I'll see if I can find the paperwork for the filed motion and post the link. I was actually a bit amazed to see that the public defender's office had apparently received absolutely zilch in terms of information/evidence from the prosecutor's office. This is probably why they did not make a plea during arraignment. As careful as they have been, why withhold this information from the defense? I don't get it.

[Amy]

True. I'm just having a difficult time accepting the rape charge, so I'm looking for other possibilities. The other stuff I can believe, especially the drugging bit. For some reason that just "fits" for me.

And, truthfully, we don't know if there was genital trauma. According to the paperwork filed, the defense team had not received the autopsy report NOR transcripts/tapes of any interviews, so they are essentially working blind, or only on what MH has told them. We all know how reliable THAT information is.

If MH was rough while trying get Sandra in the suitcase, she could have dropped her, caught her groin area somehow, etc. She also could have tried to hide her first, and the damage was caused then. If it was something like Sandra being hit/backed over by a car, THAT can cause trauma in the pelvic region without breaking bones. My husband was hit by a car as a child and was told that if he had not recently urinated, his bladder would have ruptured, which could have killed him. It had something to do with the way he was hit. He did break his leg, but it would have been all soft tissue damage in his pelvic region. If the body had decomposed enough, damage such as this could cause speculation of internal damage caused by rape. I am not an expert, so this is completely speculation on my part, but I'd guess it is possible, no?

They have not released information on how long they felt she was in the pond, so perhaps she was left elsewhere first, and animals got to her? MH could then have gotten scared, or some other reason, and dumped Sandra in the pond at a later date.

Again, just looking at possibilities.

The reason I don't think Sandra was hit/backed over by a car is because I am pretty sure the Shenenan (sp) reported there was no bruising or broken bones. She must not have been so decomposed @ the time of autopsy if the ME could determine that, the no bruising of the body (I took to mean, the torso, arms, legs, face, etc.) But, that is just how I interpreted what was said.

[tandarat]

http://www.tracypress.com/pages/full_story?page_label=home&id=2316290-UPDATE-+Charges+rattle+suspect&article-UPDATE-%20Charges%20rattle%20suspect%20=&widget=push&instance=home_most_popular&open=&


Prosecutors Tuesday morning filed charges of murder with special circumstances of kidnapping, lewd or lascivious acts with a child and rape by a foreign object.

I don't see how it can be any of the things you listed - its fairly clear to me that LE says Sandra was raped.

I think this is why they wanted to have their own pathologist look at the remains (now just tissue samples). I'm trying to look at this from their point of view: they need to rule out any other possibility. I mentioned a few, and there are certainly others I haven't thought of. In terms of what could have possibly caused the trauma, as I mentioned earlier, decomposition can obliterate a lot of evidence, and so there is a possibility that injury/damage caused by other means was interpreted as a sexual assault. That's all. Depending on how advanced decomposition was, it could have been something pretty far out. And, again, that is assuming the ME found something. After the statement by the defense attorney today, I think it is safe to say that it WAS mentioned during autopsy, but what, we don't know.

As for rape with a foreign object, I think it would be safe to say that there is a possibility this was made because of MH's gender, since a penis during a violent rape can do a lot of damage, while a finger cannot. Again, without seeing/hearing the evidence (which probably isn't going to happen now there is a gag order), there is no way to know.

It isn't that I don't think that a rape is POSSIBLE, it is just that, for some reason, it doesn't feel right to me right now. I don't know why. Denial? Maybe because it was so close to home (physically and emotionally)? My daughter's best friend's mom (who is also a good friend of mine) is also a teacher at my daughter's school. Not a Sunday school teacher, though it is a religious school, but still....the parallels are there, and it creeps me out. And no, her mom would NOT do anything like that...trust me. So, I don't know. Once I detach myself a little more emotionally, maybe it will be easier. I just don't want to be too influenced by what the media is saying, I guess. I would rather look at all possibilities, including that there is a chance she is innocent, or at least not guilty of all the counts. That doesn't mean I don't suspect that the charges are at least mostly true. Let's just say I'm playing devil's advocate.

[tandarat]

The reason I don't think Sandra was hit/backed over by a car is because I am pretty sure the Shenenan (sp) reported there was no bruising or broken bones. She must not have been so decomposed @ the time of autopsy if the ME could determine that, the no bruising of the body (I took to mean, the torso, arms, legs, face, etc.) But, that is just how I interpreted what was said.

Truthfully, if what has been brought up regarding the other child is true, I'm guessing that the cause of death will end up being drug overdose. Why she drugged her is what will be the $100,000 question. There is the "obvious" answer, of course, but there are other possibilities, too.

Out of curiosity, does anyone know which drug was found in the other girl's system? I'd like to do some research on the effects of the drug, particularly on children.

[Nawny]

Ah, yes my dear, I just reread your post...gotcha. You might have something there, about the rape being the reason. Preforated bowel, as mentioned earlier, or the other possibily would be the drug inducement. I thought that might come into play too because of the drug the 7 year old was given, which I understand can cause death in children with an overdose.

Both horrible thoughts, and I still want to kick her fricken a**. Big time.
:rose:

That's what we love about you OS!

Did anyone watch Dr G this week? She did an autopsy on a little boy who she found had died of blunt force trauma to his stomach. There was pertinatious poisoning and internal bleeding to his stomach. The step father was arrested. It's not too hard to kill a child. If the blunt force trauma occurred vaginally, ( in the Cantu case) it makes sense that it was the cause of death. I know they will find out, or have already.

[deacon]

I don't have trouble accepting the rape charge. Although unusual for a woman to act alone, it's not unheard of or impossible and don't understand why people refuse to believe it can and does happen. Not sure where the idea of genital trauma came from, but there is no confusing genital trauma with groin trauma.

And if Huckaby has given information to investigators it's hard to believe that she hasn't given the same (if not more) information to the defense. I find it hard to imagine that animals could account for forensics that would lead the ME to assume that a rape has occurred.

This is the part that gets to me too. While, in the past, this is quite unusual it isn't as uncommon now. The possible drugging of the first child sreams to me. I continue to wonder why an adult would drug a child. Other than for an illegal activity that they wanted the child to be helpless for. I also wonder, and am sure we will find out one day, if Sandra was drugged too.

[old_soul]

This is the part that gets to me too. While, in the past, this is quite unusual it isn't as uncommon now. The possible drugging of the first child sreams to me. I continue to wonder why an adult would drug a child. Other than for an illegal activity that they wanted the child to be helpless for. I also wonder, and am sure we will find out one day, if Sandra was drugged too.

Absolutely, deacon! I also think drugs will play into this murder, and I am almost afraid to find out just how......

MHO~
It pisses me off to no end, how a human can just go ahead and do something to another..if they are so tormented inside, how do they then turn it on anyone else..what gives them the right to hurt another human being, young or old.....Destroy oneself then (sorry to say) before doing something ~ to an innocent child no less! We can see this world is full of lost souls, and it's scary.....and so, so sad. It gets worse and worse.

I just can't find the words......................:(

[deacon]

Absolutely, deacon! I also think drugs will play into this murder, and I am almost afraid to find out just how......

MHO~
It pisses me off to no end, how a human can just go ahead and do something to another..if they are so tormented inside, how do they then turn it on anyone else..what gives them the right to hurt another human being, young or old.....Destroy oneself then (sorry to say) before doing something ~ to an innocent child no less! We can see this world is full of lost souls, and it's scary.....and so, so sad. It gets worse and worse.

I just can't find the words......................:(


It all comes back to the "it is all about me" syndrom. (sp) People today have lost sight of what was once called the golden rule. They have been told by Psych. and other "self help experts" that they are the most important thing or person in the world and to do "what makes them happy." Nothing could be further from the truth. When one gets more pleasure from doing things for others than having something done for themselves, then they have found a way to happiness. Our world can not revolve around ourselves. It must revolve around others.

Why do you think that there are children that go to bed hungry every night? Why is it, in the richest country on earth even now, that people live on the street and have little to eat? Why do you think we have people who will film the abuse of children and put it on the web? It is because they do not relate to the harm they are doing. They think only about their "moment of pleasure." They could care less how it affects others including their own or someone else's children.

*off my soapbox now*

[lorettalockhorn]

Absolutely, deacon! I also think drugs will play into this murder, and I am almost afraid to find out just how......

MHO~
It pisses me off to no end, how a human can just go ahead and do something to another..if they are so tormented inside, how do they then turn it on anyone else..what gives them the right to hurt another human being, young or old.....Destroy oneself then (sorry to say) before doing something ~ to an innocent child no less! We can see this world is full of lost souls, and it's scary.....and so, so sad. It gets worse and worse.

I just can't find the words......................:(

That works for me (in this case). We've all read that depression is anger turned inside. No doubt there will be testimony that Huckaby was in emotional pain for years, but it's hard not to wish that she had suicided instead of taking Sandra's life. And just look at her victim count; Sandra, Sandra's family, her own daughter and family, the little Baptist church, the community, and all the people reeling at the thought that someone who should be trusted could be so aberrant.

It's hard not to fault her family for enabling her, the court for not monitoring her more closely, Tracy LE for pooh poohing the earlier abduction and for seemingly hushing up the incident.

[javahog]

Truthfully, if what has been brought up regarding the other child is true, I'm guessing that the cause of death will end up being drug overdose. Why she drugged her is what will be the $100,000 question. There is the "obvious" answer, of course, but there are other possibilities, too.

Out of curiosity, does anyone know which drug was found in the other girl's system? I'd like to do some research on the effects of the drug, particularly on children.

Benzo per some interviews...

[trublu]

This is the part that gets to me too. While, in the past, this is quite unusual it isn't as uncommon now. The possible drugging of the first child sreams to me. I continue to wonder why an adult would drug a child. Other than for an illegal activity that they wanted the child to be helpless for. I also wonder, and am sure we will find out one day, if Sandra was drugged too.

Hello all - new to these boards and glad to be here!

Female predators are rare and this one could teach us all a LOT. I don't for one moment buy any type of insanity case. This woman knew what she was doing.

The drugged child is definitely indicative of clear thinking....

[One2Snoop]

Hello all - new to these boards and glad to be here!

Female predators are rare and this one could teach us all a LOT. I don't for one moment buy any type of insanity case. This woman knew what she was doing.

The drugged child is definitely indicative of clear thinking....

ITA trublu! Welcome to CL! :seeya:

[old_soul]

Just in from HLN (no link yet) ~

Melissa Huckaby has been connected to 2 arson fires in 2007.....No charges have been filed, as the Sandra Cantu murder takes top priority.

WTH has this girl been up to and where has her family been??! more as it comes in....

[One2Snoop]

Huckaby Linked To Southern California Arson Fires

Posted: 9:45 pm PDT April 20, 2009Updated: 12:49 pm PDT April 22, 2009
TRACY, Calif. --

The woman charged with the kidnap and killing of a Tracy 8-year-old was a ‘person of interest’ in a pair of arson fires at the Southern California home where she lived in 2007, according to a published report.

Authorities in La Palma told the Orange County Register that Melissa Huckaby, charged in the murder and kidnapping of Sandra Cantu, lived in a house where two arson fires were lit over an eight-day period in 2007.

Evelyn Lloyd, Huckaby’s housemate at the time, was arrested shortly after the first fire but was in custody when the second was set. The charges against Lloyd were later dropped.

La Palma Police Chief Edward Ethell said Huckaby was considered a "person of interest," but she was not arrested.

Ethell added that La Palma police officers were sharing information about the fire case with the Tracy Police Department. However, he could not comment any further on Wednesday after a gag order was issued in the Cantu murder case.

Huckaby, 28, has been charged with three special circumstances allegations -- rape with a foreign object, lewd or lascivious conduct with a child under 14 and murder in the course of a kidnapping for the slaying of Cantu.

The special circumstances mean Huckaby, if convicted, could face life in prison without the possibility of parole or the death penalty.

Also on Tuesday, Huckaby's lawyer said he is dropping his request to exhume Cantu's body because the medical examiner has preserved tissue samples the defense can test instead.

Meanwhile, investigators confirmed that the alleged drugging of a child who lived in the same mobile home park as Cantu was now a part of the investigation of the 8-year-old’s death.

Sgt. Tony Sheneman any case involving Huckaby was part of the Cantu homicide case.

“This specific incident is part of homicide investigation as is any report that might contain Miss Huckaby’s name,” he said.

Police logs show have revealed that an unidentified woman took a 7-year-old girl to a park back in January without her parent’s knowledge.

According to the log, when the girl returned, her family took her to the hospital and a doctor found a muscle relaxant in the girl's bloodstream.

The woman who took the girl drove a purple Kia Sportage, according to the log.

A Kia Sportage of the same color registered to Huckaby was the subject of an intensive forensic examination the day after farm workers found Sandra’s body inside a suitcase dumped in a dairy lagoon.

Sheneman said a “full investigation (of the January incident) was conducted by a couple different agencies and no probable cause was developed. No one was taken into custody.”

The Tracy Press identified Huckaby as being the woman in the January incident.

http://www.ktvu.com/news/19236187/detail.html#-

[lorettalockhorn]

Hello all - new to these boards and glad to be here!

Female predators are rare and this one could teach us all a LOT. I don't for one moment buy any type of insanity case. This woman knew what she was doing.

The drugged child is definitely indicative of clear thinking....

Hey trublu! :seeya: Good point. If not clear it certainly sounds like whatever her goal was was premeditated. I'm waiting with bated breath to learn about the convo with the grandmother about the suitcase that morning. If it being missing was a ruse, I'm inclined to think that was part of her plan. If they didn't discuss it, I'll have to lay off that obsession.

[lorettalockhorn]

Just in from HLN (no link yet) ~

Melissa Huckaby has been connected to 2 arson fires in 2007.....No charges have been filed, as the Sandra Cantu murder takes top priority.

WTH has this girl been up to and where has her family been??! more as it comes in....

What's next? Skinning a cat?

Thanks for the heads up.

[lorettalockhorn]

Huckaby Linked To Southern California Arson Fires

Posted: 9:45 pm PDT April 20, 2009Updated: 12:49 pm PDT April 22, 2009
TRACY, Calif. --

The woman charged with the kidnap and killing of a Tracy 8-year-old was a ‘person of interest’ in a pair of arson fires at the Southern California home where she lived in 2007, according to a published report.

Authorities in La Palma told the Orange County Register that Melissa Huckaby, charged in the murder and kidnapping of Sandra Cantu, lived in a house where two arson fires were lit over an eight-day period in 2007.

Evelyn Lloyd, Huckaby’s housemate at the time, was arrested shortly after the first fire but was in custody when the second was set. The charges against Lloyd were later dropped...


Should we assume that Huckaby is not a brainiac?

Thanks for the link. Unreal.

[lorettalockhorn]

...Symptoms
While a person with depression or bipolar disorder typically endures the same mood for weeks, a person with BPD may experience intense bouts of anger, depression, and anxiety that may last only hours, or at most a day.5 These may be associated with episodes of impulsive aggression, self-injury, and drug or alcohol abuse. Distortions in cognition and sense of self can lead to frequent changes in long-term goals, career plans, jobs, friendships, gender identity, and values. Sometimes people with BPD view themselves as fundamentally bad, or unworthy. They may feel unfairly misunderstood or mistreated, bored, empty, and have little idea who they are. Such symptoms are most acute when people with BPD feel isolated and lacking in social support, and may result in frantic efforts to avoid being alone.

People with BPD often have highly unstable patterns of social relationships. While they can develop intense but stormy attachments, their attitudes towards family, friends, and loved ones may suddenly shift from idealization (great admiration and love) to devaluation (intense anger and dislike). Thus, they may form an immediate attachment and idealize the other person, but when a slight separation or conflict occurs, they switch unexpectedly to the other extreme and angrily accuse the other person of not caring for them at all. Even with family members, individuals with BPD are highly sensitive to rejection, reacting with anger and distress to such mild separations as a vacation, a business trip, or a sudden change in plans. These fears of abandonment seem to be related to difficulties feeling emotionally connected to important persons when they are physically absent, leaving the individual with BPD feeling lost and perhaps worthless. Suicide threats and attempts may occur along with anger at perceived abandonment and disappointments.

People with BPD exhibit other impulsive behaviors, such as excessive spending, binge eating and risky sex. BPD often occurs together with other psychiatric problems, particularly bipolar disorder, depression, anxiety disorders, substance abuse, and other personality disorders...

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/borderline-personality-disorder-fact-sheet/index.shtml

[openthebox]

Hello all - new to these boards and glad to be here!

Female predators are rare and this one could teach us all a LOT. I don't for one moment buy any type of insanity case. This woman knew what she was doing.

The drugged child is definitely indicative of clear thinking....

I folks-new here! Not trying to rock the boat but life lessons have given me a different perspective on all of this.
I have not been at all suprised that a woman was busted for this. It was not something that I foresaw but it really doesn't suprise me.
I was molested as a young boy by females. While LE was asking me what was going on in the homes I lived in, never once was I asked about a female doing anything. When there was a bust that involved some of the perps, none of the females were busted. For years I kept yelling out thye names of the women. Not until recently was I heard.
I often wonder how many of the unsolved cases will get cleared if we look at possible female perps with the same scrutiny as males.
I am wondering if Tracy LE was missing some sort of info to do what they needed with the other little girl who was drugged. They have done such a great job with Sandra's case that I am going to assume that we just don't know what the trouble with the other case was.
Thank you for your time and fior hearing me out!
May we, once again, becaome a world where kids can skip down the road, safely

[One2Snoop]

Missing girl's mother pointed finger at Huckaby early
by Jennifer Wadsworth
2 hrs 23 mins ago

The mother of a girl who went missing in January told police to check out Melissa Huckaby immediately after she heard that 8-year-old neighbor girl Sandra Cantu disappeared late last month.

Lora Polk, 41, came back from work on Jan. 17 to find her 7-year-old daughter gone. Huckaby, 28, took her — along with her own 5-year-old daughter — without permission from the family, said Polk this morning in an interview. Polk called police to report the missing girl. Hours later, she took her to the hospital, where doctors say they found muscle relaxers coursing through her 45-pound body.

Police initially accused Polk of drugging her daughter, she said. When Tracy police Det. Nate Cogburn came to search the family’s home, Polk said at one point he told her, “I think you’re on crank now. I think you gave (the girl) those pills.”

A gag order prevents police from discussing the missing girl’s case because it’s wrapped up in the Cantu murder investigation.

In the police log entry that reports how doctors found Polk’s daughter high on drugs, police say the mother smelled like alcohol. Polk said she did have one beer that night, and Polk said she believes police passed judgment on her because of her spotty past.

Polk has a history of drug abuse, and had a daughter taken away in 1994 by Child Protective Services, which placed the child in a foster home. Polk hasn’t seen that child since. Polk said she’s getting her life together now. She also has a 22-year-old son and an 18-year-old daughter.

Polk said she believes police could have done more back in January. She said her daughter said that Huckaby took her to Wendy’s and gave her water that “tasted like medicine.”

Records show that police searched Huckaby’s house in November, when she was charged with burglary and petty theft, and in April, after Sandra went missing. There are no records that show police searched Huckaby’s home after the missing girl was shown to have been drugged.

Soon after the family reported the missing girl that day, Huckaby drove back with Polk’s daughter about four hours after first taking her, according to Polk and police records. It was early evening at that point, and the little girl seemed fine, Polk said, just emotional because police cars were at her home and her mother was frantic.

It was around dinnertime that police left, so Polk headed out with her daughter for some fast food. But in the car, the little girl started to slump over as if she were falling asleep. She slurred her words.

“She was not acting right,” said Polk. “It was really scaring me.”

Polk went straight to the emergency room at Sutter Tracy Community Hospital. Hours passed, and at about 10 p.m. that night police showed up again. They started peppering Polk with questions and told her that the doctors had found muscle relaxers in her little girl’s body.

Police asked for permission to search Polk’s house.

“Of course, I let them,” said Polk, who lives with her grandparents in Orchard Estates Mobile Home Park, where Sandra lived before she was murdered and where Huckaby lived with her grandparents before her arrest.

Child Protective Services then took Polk’s girl to the Mary Graham Children’s Shelter in French Camp, where they kept her overnight. Polk said she walked home from the hospital by herself at about 2 a.m. on Jan. 18.

Later that morning, they said Polk could have her back if the girl passed a complete physical exam. She did, and the girl was returned home that morning.

Huckaby told a Bay Area TV news station before her arrest that police showed up at her house to question her around 2 in the morning Jan. 18, about the time Polk was walking back from the hospital.

Huckaby also told KPIX that she had permission to take the girl to the park — a claim Polk says is false.

Polk said her daughter barely remembers that day. She did tell her mom that Huckaby took her to three parks and gave her the strange-tasting water, Polk said. The girl doesn’t remember the hospital visit, or her overnight stay with Child Protective Services.

Polk and her family have kept their little girl inside the house since then, fearful of her safety.

Polk said Huckaby stopped by their home days later to see how the girl was holding up, but Polk said she told Huckaby that she never wants to talk to her again.

When Polk and her family heard that Sandra went missing, she said she told police, “I think you need to check out Melissa Huckaby a little bit more than you guys are doing.”

Because of the gag order, it’s unclear how much police investigated Huckaby early on in Sandra’s disappearance.

When Sandra’s body was found 10 days later, on April 6, encased in a black suitcase that Huckaby has said was hers, Polk said she started crying. So did her daughter.

“That could have been my daughter,” Polk said.

Police on Friday took Polk’s daughter to check for signs of sexual assault — months after the incident, Polk said. They found nothing. They also interviewed the girl on Friday.

Polk said Cogburn apologized to her on Friday, and said that he did everything he could do in January.

Today, Polk plans to get a copy of her pharmacy records to show police all the prescriptions she takes — none of which are muscle relaxers, she said.

Police said told the family that they never closed the January case, just suspended it. It’s now part of an ongoing investigation into Sandra’s murder. Huckaby is being held without bail at the San Joaquin County Jail in French Camp on charges that she kidnapped, raped and killed Sandra.

But Tracy police Sgt. Tony Sheneman on Monday said police never arrested anyone in January because they had no probable cause.

It’s a felony to give a child a controlled substance, according to the California penal code.

http://www.tracypress.com/pages/full_story?page_label=home&id=2425522-Missing+girl-s+mother+pointed+finger+at+Huckaby+early&article-Missing%20girl-s%20mother%20pointed%20finger%20at%20Huckaby%20ear ly%20=&widget=push&instance=home_news_lead_story&open=&

[One2Snoop]

I folks-new here! Not trying to rock the boat but life lessons have given me a different perspective on all of this.
I have not been at all suprised that a woman was busted for this. It was not something that I foresaw but it really doesn't suprise me.
I was molested as a young boy by females. While LE was asking me what was going on in the homes I lived in, never once was I asked about a female doing anything. When there was a bust that involved some of the perps, none of the females were busted. For years I kept yelling out thye names of the women. Not until recently was I heard.
I often wonder how many of the unsolved cases will get cleared if we look at possible female perps with the same scrutiny as males.
I am wondering if Tracy LE was missing some sort of info to do what they needed with the other little girl who was drugged. They have done such a great job with Sandra's case that I am going to assume that we just don't know what the trouble with the other case was.
Thank you for your time and fior hearing me out!
May we, once again, becaome a world where kids can skip down the road, safely

I think this case just might get some cold cases back to the forefront again. Thanks for sharing and welcome to CL. :seeya:

[openthebox]

I think this case just might get some cold cases back to the forefront again. Thanks for sharing and welcome to CL. :seeya:

Thank you for your welcome to me!
I hope it brings up some old cases that had women close to the heart of them.

I find this very scary as "a mother with children" is one of the sources of help that many kids are instructed to seek out when they are lost.
I have NO doubt that there are MANY fewer women that do this sort of stuff but, unfortunately, SOME don't deserve thwe blanket trust we have given them.:(

[lorettalockhorn]

I folks-new here! Not trying to rock the boat but life lessons have given me a different perspective on all of this.
I have not been at all suprised that a woman was busted for this. It was not something that I foresaw but it really doesn't suprise me.
I was molested as a young boy by females. While LE was asking me what was going on in the homes I lived in, never once was I asked about a female doing anything. When there was a bust that involved some of the perps, none of the females were busted. For years I kept yelling out thye names of the women. Not until recently was I heard.
I often wonder how many of the unsolved cases will get cleared if we look at possible female perps with the same scrutiny as males.
I am wondering if Tracy LE was missing some sort of info to do what they needed with the other little girl who was drugged. They have done such a great job with Sandra's case that I am going to assume that we just don't know what the trouble with the other case was.
Thank you for your time and fior hearing me out!
May we, once again, becaome a world where kids can skip down the road, safely

Hey Open! Sure as heck don't know the answer to that one, but look at the number of female teachers who land in the news because of their predilection(s) for their underage students.

Sorry for what was perpetrated on you and hope that voicing your experience is cathartic.

It breaks my heart to think of Sandra literally skipping to her death.

[openthebox]

Hey Open! Sure as heck don't know the answer to that one, but look at the number of female teachers who land in the news because of their predilection(s) for their underage students.

Sorry for what was perpetrated on you and hope that voicing your experience is cathartic.

It breaks my heart to think of Sandra literally skipping to her death.

Thank you!
Yeah, that video of Sandra skipping was just heart breaking, knowing her fate soon after that moment of innocence.

I appreciate your words about my experiences. Being a male and having some perps that were female, adds a whole different lean on the experience. Males are not as able to be open about such experiences. Truth is what teaches society about such things.

[openthebox]

I would think that if the sexual abuse was done AFTER Sandra's death, that it would bring different charges. I can't remember the word, but something like "molestation of a corpse"

[JLette]

...Symptoms
While a person with depression or bipolar disorder typically endures the same mood for weeks, a person with BPD may experience intense bouts of anger, depression, and anxiety that may last only hours, or at most a day.5 These may be associated with episodes of impulsive aggression, self-injury, and drug or alcohol abuse. Distortions in cognition and sense of self can lead to frequent changes in long-term goals, career plans, jobs, friendships, gender identity, and values. Sometimes people with BPD view themselves as fundamentally bad, or unworthy. They may feel unfairly misunderstood or mistreated, bored, empty, and have little idea who they are. Such symptoms are most acute when people with BPD feel isolated and lacking in social support, and may result in frantic efforts to avoid being alone.

People with BPD often have highly unstable patterns of social relationships. While they can develop intense but stormy attachments, their attitudes towards family, friends, and loved ones may suddenly shift from idealization (great admiration and love) to devaluation (intense anger and dislike). Thus, they may form an immediate attachment and idealize the other person, but when a slight separation or conflict occurs, they switch unexpectedly to the other extreme and angrily accuse the other person of not caring for them at all. Even with family members, individuals with BPD are highly sensitive to rejection, reacting with anger and distress to such mild separations as a vacation, a business trip, or a sudden change in plans. These fears of abandonment seem to be related to difficulties feeling emotionally connected to important persons when they are physically absent, leaving the individual with BPD feeling lost and perhaps worthless. Suicide threats and attempts may occur along with anger at perceived abandonment and disappointments.

People with BPD exhibit other impulsive behaviors, such as excessive spending, binge eating and risky sex. BPD often occurs together with other psychiatric problems, particularly bipolar disorder, depression, anxiety disorders, substance abuse, and other personality disorders...

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/borderline-personality-disorder-fact-sheet/index.shtml

hmmmm good info loretta, this makes me think of a child killer in another case on these boards

[javahog]

Should we assume that Huckaby is not a brainiac?

Thanks for the link. Unreal.

It wasn't a little fire, either...guy on local news said the windows blew out and there was a big "boom". But MH claimed not to hear it and the FD had to practically break down the door to get her attention.

Something real wrong here...

[tandarat]

It wasn't a little fire, either...guy on local news said the windows blew out and there was a big "boom". But MH claimed not to hear it and the FD had to practically break down the door to get her attention.

Something real wrong here...

That sounds almost like she is having some kind of fugue episode, in which she is essentially blacking out while this is going on. That, or she was possibly trying to kill herself.

Seems she's kind of a walking train wreck. It is almost like she's trying to commit every offense people find completely repulsive. Almost like taking self hating/destructive behavior to the ultimate extreme. If all of this ends up going back to her, I'd hate to see what her next offense would have been.

Does anyone else find it interesting that all the things she has done has happened in twos? Burglary, arson, and now possibly drugging a child. Also, each was worse than the other. Probably not enough to definitely peg as a pattern, but I found it kind of interesting.

I don't know if her doing stuff like this when it is obviously her is so much stupidity as it is an inability to control herself, or possibly WANTING to get caught. I don't know, but I'm finding her really fascinating. She's going to be very popular with research psychologists, I think.

[lorettalockhorn]

Isn't fugue state a type of amnesia? Has she claimed to forget events? And doesn't it also involve traveling while dissociated?

HLN had a taped convo they played during Prime News, couldn't here it very well, but she did say that Sandra WAS her daughter's best friend. (Always suspicious of people who refer to the missing in the past tense.)

[tandarat]

My understanding is that you are pretty much unaware of what you are doing as you do it....completely oblivious. And yes, generally you don't remember, or remember just bits and pieces. It is almost catatonic, but you are doing things. I had them when I was younger when I had severe migraines....I would go anywhere from a couple of hours to a couple of days and not remember any of it. I was just doing day-to-day stuff. When prompted, sometimes I could remember parts of it, but it was almost dreamlike. And no, I never did anything bad during these episodes :).

Essentially it is sometimes classified as a type of amnesia, but there is a lot more to it. Just the fact that she claimed not to hear, and then could not be gotten out points to some kind of psychological "distance" from the real world at the time. Or, as I said, she was half-heartedly trying to kill herself, but didn't want to admit it, especially due to the potential of an arson charge and connecting her to the first arson. Personally, from the other info gathered, I'd bet on door #2, myself.

Unfortunately, she could claim some kind of "out of body" situation in which she was not in control of what she was doing, and therefore couldn't know what she was doing was wrong. That would be a way out there defense, and probably not work, but it is a possible defense when looking at some of her past actions.

I think it is safe to say that this woman has some serious issues. About the closest description I can come to is WACKED. I can only shake my head. The rape charge is starting to look more believable, but in truth I don't think it would be either sexual or power-motivated in nature.

[tandarat]

Isn't fugue state a type of amnesia? Has she claimed to forget events? And doesn't it also involve traveling while dissociated?

HLN had a taped convo they played during Prime News, couldn't here it very well, but she did say that Sandra WAS her daughter's best friend. (Always suspicious of people who refer to the missing in the past tense.)

I actually have an issue with this, as well. I'm not saying they weren't playmates, or even friends. However, I have a 5-year-old who played with a family friend's 9-year-old (only a year older than Sandra), and TRUST me, the age difference was huge. They invariably ended up fighting like siblings within a couple of hours, and the 9-year-old would essentially kick my daughter out of her room for some peace. Unless the 5-year-old is very close to 6, and Sandra was closer to 7, I just don't see this as a "best friend" scenario. I could be wrong, but at 8 years old, girls tend to like to play with other girls their own age. She might like "caring" for a 5-year-old, but as a best friend and primary playmate.....I don't think so much. Just my opinion....

[lorettalockhorn]

My understanding is that you are pretty much unaware of what you are doing as you do it....completely oblivious. And yes, generally you don't remember, or remember just bits and pieces. It is almost catatonic, but you are doing things. I had them when I was younger when I had severe migraines....I would go anywhere from a couple of hours to a couple of days and not remember any of it. I was just doing day-to-day stuff. When prompted, sometimes I could remember parts of it, but it was almost dreamlike. And no, I never did anything bad during these episodes :).

Essentially it is sometimes classified as a type of amnesia, but there is a lot more to it. Just the fact that she claimed not to hear, and then could not be gotten out points to some kind of psychological "distance" from the real world at the time. Or, as I said, she was half-heartedly trying to kill herself, but didn't want to admit it, especially due to the potential of an arson charge and connecting her to the first arson. Personally, from the other info gathered, I'd bet on door #2, myself.

Unfortunately, she could claim some kind of "out of body" situation in which she was not in control of what she was doing, and therefore couldn't know what she was doing was wrong. That would be a way out there defense, and probably not work, but it is a possible defense when looking at some of her past actions.

I think it is safe to say that this woman has some serious issues. About the closest description I can come to is WACKED. I can only shake my head. The rape charge is starting to look more believable, but in truth I don't think it would be either sexual or power-motivated in nature.

I've forgotten more psychology than I remember, but the amnesia doesn't just involve details for behavior but for identity, and from what little I remember fugue state is relatively rare. It's more likely IMO that Huckaby is lying about not hearing the explosion/fire/commotion than experiencing a dissociative state, but since it's probably a foregone conclusion that she'll have a mental exam, maybe we'll find out. At any rate, mental illness is not the same as insanity in the legal sense. And she could just as easily claim her own abduction and brainwashing by aliens as a out of body experience. As for heavy duty, hard to pronounce diagnoses, I've been saying she's whack since the arrest. She'll go down in history.

I actually have an issue with this, as well. I'm not saying they weren't playmates, or even friends. However, I have a 5-year-old who played with a family friend's 9-year-old (only a year older than Sandra), and TRUST me, the age difference was huge. They invariably ended up fighting like siblings within a couple of hours, and the 9-year-old would essentially kick my daughter out of her room for some peace. Unless the 5-year-old is very close to 6, and Sandra was closer to 7, I just don't see this as a "best friend" scenario. I could be wrong, but at 8 years old, girls tend to like to play with other girls their own age. She might like "caring" for a 5-year-old, but as a best friend and primary playmate.....I don't think so much. Just my opinion....

My issue with MH's statement really has nothing to do with the age difference; kid's glom onto other kids that they're comfortable or have something in common with, and a lot of how they choose playmates depends on what age and gender is available in their community. What I do have an issue with, is that Melissa spoke of Sandra in the past tense. Now there's your red flag.

[javahog]

More investigation is reportedly going on!

http://www.kcra.com/news/19266204/detail.html

Points:

-In recent weeks, FBI agents visited a church along the Washington-Idaho border in connection with Melissa Huckaby's family, KCRA 3 has confirmed.
-Sources close to the Cantu investigation told KCRA 3 that most of the FBI's questions centered on Pastor Lane Lawless.
-Sources told KCRA 3 that Lawless was questioned years ago as part of a report of suspected child abuse.

KTVU reported this as an ongoing investigation on-air this morning, but it is not on their website yet.

[old_soul]

More investigation is reportedly going on!

http://www.kcra.com/news/19266204/detail.html

Points:

-In recent weeks, FBI agents visited a church along the Washington-Idaho border in connection with Melissa Huckaby's family, KCRA 3 has confirmed.
-Sources close to the Cantu investigation told KCRA 3 that most of the FBI's questions centered on Pastor Lane Lawless.
-Sources told KCRA 3 that Lawless was questioned years ago as part of a report of suspected child abuse.

KTVU reported this as an ongoing investigation on-air this morning, but it is not on their website yet.

:eek: A child abuse ring possibly?? Now we're talking turkey. It would all make sense, wouldn't it. They've been too quiet about it, the Pastor & Mrs....
and of course, if they spoke like their grandaughter does, calling the press and all that, it would have drawn even more attention to themselves!

Oh Boy.

[lorettalockhorn]

Interesting! Thanks Java. You know I'm so judgmental, I had wondered if maybe the grandfather had insisted that Melissa be a Sunday school teacher to legitimize and cleanse her since she (seems to have) so many problems/issues. But you have to wonder just how much he knew about the details of her transgressions.

[javahog]

Interesting! Thanks Java. You know I'm so judgmental, I had wondered if maybe the grandfather had insisted that Melissa be a Sunday school teacher to legitimize and cleanse her since she (seems to have) so many problems/issues. But you have to wonder just how much he knew about the details of her transgressions.

I've wondered if it might not be one of those family situations where the "crazy" problem member gets dropped on an unsuspecting family member since no one else wants to deal any more.

[lorettalockhorn]

I've wondered if it might not be one of those family situations where the "crazy" problem member gets dropped on an unsuspecting family member since no one else wants to deal any more.

Well see, if you were me, you would be suspicious of those evangelical Baptists and think that Preacher Lawless was forcing Huckaby to teach Sunday school to exorcise her demons.

Apologies to any Baptists for my deepseated prejudices (for lack of a better word).

[openthebox]

Well see, if you were me, you would be suspicious of those evangelical Baptists and think that Preacher Lawless was forcing Huckaby to teach Sunday school to exorcise her demons.

Apologies to any Baptists for my deepseated prejudices (for lack of a better word).
There are several 100 different types of Baptists. Any Baptist Church declared as an "Independent" is under its own control and is an entity all to it's own. "Evangelical Baptists" types can mean anything from leaving tracts in different places all the way to bugging the heck out of people about becoming their brand of Christian.
I am Baptist and am not offended by your comment as pushy types of any sort bug me!

[lorettalockhorn]

There are several 100 different types of Baptists. Any Baptist Church declared as an "Independent" is under its own control and is an entity all to it's own. "Evangelical Baptists" types can mean anything from leaving tracts in different places all the way to bugging the heck out of people about becoming their brand of Christian.
I am Baptist and am not offended by your comment as pushy types of any sort bug me!

I appreciate that! I'm Presbyterian and although we do support missionary work and many liberal causes, I still think of us as a pretty laid back and hands off group.

[javahog]

Well see, if you were me, you would be suspicious of those evangelical Baptists and think that Preacher Lawless was forcing Huckaby to teach Sunday school to exorcise her demons.

Apologies to any Baptists for my deepseated prejudices (for lack of a better word).

Having been raised Baptist, I'd normally say that is real unlikely, they's be more likely to drive her away, but I also read the info on the church's website, and it sounded real kooky and very, no one is a member of the elect but us, if that makes sense, so anything is possible.

Like David Koresh was an Adventist, but not exactly a normal one...

[javahog]

I appreciate that! I'm Presbyterian and although we do support missionary work and many liberal causes, I still think of us as a pretty laid back and hands off group.

I split my time between a Presbyterian church and a non-denominational evangelical one, so I see everything.

[One2Snoop]

Cantu Family Braces For Emotionally Packed Hearing

Posted: 7:10 am PDT April 24, 2009Updated: 8:50 am PDT April 24, 2009
STOCKTON, Calif. -- The family of an 8-year-old Tracy girl allegedly kidnapped, raped and murdered by a Sunday school teacher braced Friday for an emotional day in a Stockton courtroom.

Melissa Huckaby, 28, was scheduled to enter a plea to murder and kidnap charges with three special circumstances allegations -- rape with a foreign object, lewd or lascivious conduct with a child under 14 and murder in the course of a kidnapping in the death of Sandra Cantu.

A conviction on any of the special circumstances would make her eligible for the death penalty.

Augie Chavez, Cantu’s aunt, will be among the family members attending the hearing.

“We all are planning on being there,” she told KTVU. “I think it’s important to represent Sandra and show we do care about what happened.”

Chavez said the family has had a difficult time dealing with the murder.

“(We’re ) holding up the best we can,” she said. “We have our good days and bad days-- more bad days than good days, unfortunately.”

“It’s everything all wrapped together,” she continued. “You have sadness. You have anger. You have moments of happiness remembering Sandra and the funny things she used to do. It’s just difficult.”

When asked what she would say to Huckaby, Chavez said: “I would just want to ask why. I don’t think I’ll ever understand why. It is just why. That is what I would say to her.”

At her initial court appearance last week, Huckaby broke down and cried as the special circumstances enhancements were read at her arraignment. In the ensuing days, a gag order has been issued surrounding the case.

Cantu disappeared March 27, and was last seen on a surveillance camera skipping outside the Orchard Estates Mobile Home Park where she lived just five doors down from Huckaby.

An intense 10-day search ended on April 6, when farmworkers draining an irrigation pond a few miles away from the mobile home complex found the suitcase that was later determined to contain Sandra's body.

Police have said Sandra was found wearing the same clothes she had on when she was last seen: a pink "Hello Kitty" T-shirt and black leggings.

Huckaby was arrested hours after she told a Tracy Press reporter that the suitcase was hers but it had been stolen the day Sandra went missing.

In the days after Sandra's body was found, police searched Clover Road Baptist Church, interviewed Huckaby's grandfather, Pastor Clifford Lawless, and took items from the family's home. Huckaby lived with her grandparents.

http://www.ktvu.com/news/19270435/detail.html?iref=werecommend

[openthebox]

With all of this horrible news, I am wanting to be sure that a real act of human kindness doesn't get lost. The farmworkers that found the suitcase, refused to accept the reward.
I can't find the article that I read that said they wanted the money to go to the family.

[One2Snoop]

With all of this horrible news, I am wanting to be sure that a real act of human kindness doesn't get lost. The farmworkers that found the suitcase, refused to accept the reward.
I can't find the article that I read that said they wanted the money to go to the family.

I looked but can't find anything that says they wanted the money to go to Sandra's family - only that they refused the reward. It would be a nice jesture if those offering the reward did give it to Sandra's family.

[One2Snoop]

This hasn't been verified by any news sources yet that I'm aware of.... I don't know how she knows this Timothy Lawless person is related to Huckaby - I guess we'll find out soon enough.

SANDRA CANTU CASE: SOURCES- LAWLESS RELATIVE ARRESTED ON SEX CHARGES
Posted by Blink | Brett Lawless, Brian Lawless, Connie Lawless, Kidnapping, Lane Lawless, Melissa Huckaby, Murdered, Sandra Cantu, Sexual Predators, Timothy Lawless | Friday 24 April 2009 1:34 pm

BREAKING NEWS

Folsom, CA– As Melissa Huckaby awaits her arraignment in court this afternoon in San Joaquin County, Blinkoncrime.com has discovered the arrest last week of Timothy John Lawless, a relative to Huckaby and the Lawless family. Folsom Police Department verified this afternoon Lawless was arrested on April 15.

Document posted at link below...

Timothy Lawless was arrested on THE EXACT SAME SEX CHARGE AS Huckaby. Lawless is in custody at the Sacramento County Jail under a $1Million Bond, charged with 10 counts of lewd and lacivious acts on a child under 14.

288. (a) Any person who willfully and lewdly commits any lewd or
lascivious act, including any of the acts constituting other crimes
provided for in Part 1, upon or with the body, or any part or member
thereof, of a child who is under the age of 14 years, with the intent
of arousing, appealing to, or gratifying the lust, passions, or
sexual desires of that person or the child, is guilty of a felony and
shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for three,
six, or eight years.

Lawless is also charged with rape with a foreign instrument, but formal charges have not been formalized by the DA. Lawless’s next appearance in court is scheduled for May 14, 2009.

http://blinkoncrime.com/2009/04/24/sandra-cantu-case-sources-lawless-relative-arrested-on-sex-charges/

[lorettalockhorn]

THE EXACT SAME CHARGE was frightening, but I see that this Mr. Lawless is not charged with murder, thank God.

Easier to read document here:

http://www.sacsheriff.com/inmate_information/inmate_details.cfm?a=2838399CE758C0094B6A88FA7F0C4 7D07C112E

[One2Snoop]

http://i39.tinypic.com/24ymdja.jpg

[One2Snoop]

Plea Delayed In Tracy Murder Trial; Autopsy Results Sealed

Posted: 7:10 am PDT April 24, 2009Updated: 2:16 pm PDT April 24, 2009
STOCKTON, Calif. -- A Sunday school teacher charged with kidnapping, raping and murdering an 8-year-old Tracy girl had her plea delayed a second time Friday to give her attorney more time to prepare her defense.

Dressed in a red jail jumpsuit, Melissa Huckaby, 28, showed little emotion as she appeared before San Joaquin County Superior Court Judge Linda Lofthus.

Public Defender Sam Behar, who has complained he hasn't received any evidence from prosecutors, asked for a delay in entering a plea. It was granted and a new date of May 22 set.

Lofthus also granted a prosecution request to seal autopsy and toxicology reports.

Huckaby is charged with murder and kidnap in the case along with three special circumstances allegations -- rape with a foreign object, lewd or lascivious conduct with a child under 14 and murder in the course of a kidnapping.

A conviction on any of the special circumstances would make her eligible for the death penalty.

Hours before the hearing, Cantu’s family had braced for an emotional day in a Stockton courtroom.

Augie Chavez, Cantu’s aunt, was among the family members attending the hearing.

“I think it’s important to represent Sandra and show we do care about what happened,” she told KTVU hours before the hearing. Chavez said the family has had a difficult time dealing with the murder.

“(We’re ) holding up the best we can,” she said. “We have our good days and bad days-- more bad days than good days, unfortunately.”

“It’s everything all wrapped together,” she continued. “You have sadness. You have anger. You have moments of happiness remembering Sandra and the funny things she used to do. It’s just difficult.”

When asked what she would say to Huckaby, Chavez said: “I would just want to ask why. I don’t think I’ll ever understand why. It is just why. That is what I would say to her.”

At her initial court appearance last week, Huckaby broke down and cried as the special circumstances enhancements were read at her arraignment. In the ensuing days, Lofthus issued a gag order surrounding the case.

Cantu disappeared March 27, and was last seen on a surveillance camera skipping outside the Orchard Estates Mobile Home Park where she lived just five doors down from Huckaby.

snip
http://www.ktvu.com/news/19270435/detail.html

[tandarat]

I've forgotten more psychology than I remember, but the amnesia doesn't just involve details for behavior but for identity, and from what little I remember fugue state is relatively rare. It's more likely IMO that Huckaby is lying about not hearing the explosion/fire/commotion than experiencing a dissociative state, but since it's probably a foregone conclusion that she'll have a mental exam, maybe we'll find out. At any rate, mental illness is not the same as insanity in the legal sense. And she could just as easily claim her own abduction and brainwashing by aliens as a out of body experience. As for heavy duty, hard to pronounce diagnoses, I've been saying she's whack since the arrest. She'll go down in history.



My issue with MH's statement really has nothing to do with the age difference; kid's glom onto other kids that they're comfortable or have something in common with, and a lot of how they choose playmates depends on what age and gender is available in their community. What I do have an issue with, is that Melissa spoke of Sandra in the past tense. Now there's your red flag.


Agreed. Just pointing out something that could be an explanation, at least by defense.

I have a feeling that whatever the outcome, they'll be writing books about her. Something is deeply wrong with her, mentally.

I wonder what else will come out in the coming months.

[tandarat]

This hasn't been verified by any news sources yet that I'm aware of.... I don't know how she knows this Timothy Lawless person is related to Huckaby - I guess we'll find out soon enough.

That Timothy Lawless seems to be an alias for a Timothy Gomes. He has several aliases with Gomes as a last name, so I would be willing to bet that this is his real name, and "Lawless" is a "clever" alias to use for his less than savory pasttimes.

Now, what I found interesting is that Mr. Lane Lawless has SEVERAL aliases, mostly plays on his first and middle names. Some could be mistakes made by social security, DMV, etc (I've had mistakes made, and it STILL comes up as an alias, even though I immediately had them corrected), but to have this happen 7+ times? I don't know....seems suspicious to me.

[One2Snoop]

That Timothy Lawless seems to be an alias for a Timothy Gomes. He has several aliases with Gomes as a last name, so I would be willing to bet that this is his real name, and "Lawless" is a "clever" alias to use for his less than savory pasttimes.

Now, what I found interesting is that Mr. Lane Lawless has SEVERAL aliases, mostly plays on his first and middle names. Some could be mistakes made by social security, DMV, etc (I've had mistakes made, and it STILL comes up as an alias, even though I immediately had them corrected), but to have this happen 7+ times? I don't know....seems suspicious to me.

I saw that earlier and did a people search but no Lane Lawless or Melissa Huckaby comes up as relatives - that's why I wonder if this guy is even related. :shrug:


Person
1. GOMES, TIMOTHY  J
Age: 44

Associated names:
LAWLESS, TIMOTHY

City, State Available Information
RANCHO CORDOVA, CA
SACRAMENTO, CA
CORNING, CA
ANTELOPE, CA
SAINT ANN, MO
NOVATO, CA
MANTON, CA
CHICO, CA
SAINT LOUIS, MO
SAN FRANCISCO FPO, CA
BRIDGETON, MO

Related People

* LAWLESS, GARY  DUANE (Age 43)
* SCHUTZENHOFER, CYNTHIA  MARIE (Age 39)
* GOMES, BURNHAM
* GOMES, MARYLIN  E (Age 71)
* GOMES, GARY  D
* NEASBITT, CHONA  JEAN (Age 35)
* GOMES, JEFFERY  C (Age 41)
* LAWLESS, CHONA  J (Age 35)
* LAWLESS, GARYE

http://www.peoplefinders.com/search/searchpreview.aspx?fn=timothy&mn=j&ln=Gomes&dobmm=&dobdd=&doby=&city=sacramento&state=CA&vw=&Search=&utm_source=pipl&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=pipl_584&processed=1

[tandarat]

I saw that earlier and did a people search but no Lane Lawless or Melissa Huckaby comes up as relatives - that's why I wonder if this guy is even related. :shrug:


Person
1. GOMES, TIMOTHY  J
Age: 44

Associated names:
LAWLESS, TIMOTHY

City, State Available Information
RANCHO CORDOVA, CA
SACRAMENTO, CA
CORNING, CA
ANTELOPE, CA
SAINT ANN, MO
NOVATO, CA
MANTON, CA
CHICO, CA
SAINT LOUIS, MO
SAN FRANCISCO FPO, CA
BRIDGETON, MO

Related People

* LAWLESS, GARY  DUANE (Age 43)
* SCHUTZENHOFER, CYNTHIA  MARIE (Age 39)
* GOMES, BURNHAM
* GOMES, MARYLIN  E (Age 71)
* GOMES, GARY  D
* NEASBITT, CHONA  JEAN (Age 35)
* GOMES, JEFFERY  C (Age 41)
* LAWLESS, CHONA  J (Age 35)
* LAWLESS, GARYE

http://www.peoplefinders.com/search/searchpreview.aspx?fn=timothy&mn=j&ln=Gomes&dobmm=&dobdd=&doby=&city=sacramento&state=CA&vw=&Search=&utm_source=pipl&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=pipl_584&processed=1

Exactly. That doesn't mean that he ISN'T....Lane Lawless has three kids, and only one shows up on the one I was able to get up, so there is still a possibility he is a nephew or grandchild. However, his name doesn't come up on a cross search on any of Lane Lawless' kids, either. Did you happen to bring up Lane Lawless? Did you see how many aliases he has? Some made sense, but some were kind of hokey....almost like he was trying to hide his real name, but didn't want to stray too far. It just seemed like too many to be mistakes made by government agencies.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong, but for someone to change their name that many times, and to change back and forth from Lane Clifford to Clifford Lane and other derivatives just seems odd, especially for a pastor. Why, if you don't want to change who people see you as? Does that make sense?

I mean, I changed my middle name to my maiden name to make it EASIER for people to find me. The only other alias is a typo by social security...the rest are all just either my middle name or middle initial.

[lorettalockhorn]

I saw that earlier and did a people search but no Lane Lawless or Melissa Huckaby comes up as relatives - that's why I wonder if this guy is even related. :shrug:


Person
1. GOMES, TIMOTHY  J
Age: 44

Associated names:
LAWLESS, TIMOTHY

City, State Available Information
RANCHO CORDOVA, CA
SACRAMENTO, CA
CORNING, CA
ANTELOPE, CA
SAINT ANN, MO
NOVATO, CA
MANTON, CA
CHICO, CA
SAINT LOUIS, MO
SAN FRANCISCO FPO, CA
BRIDGETON, MO

Related People

* LAWLESS, GARY  DUANE (Age 43)
* SCHUTZENHOFER, CYNTHIA  MARIE (Age 39)
* GOMES, BURNHAM
* GOMES, MARYLIN  E (Age 71)
* GOMES, GARY  D
* NEASBITT, CHONA  JEAN (Age 35)
* GOMES, JEFFERY  C (Age 41)
* LAWLESS, CHONA  J (Age 35)
* LAWLESS, GARYE

http://www.peoplefinders.com/search/searchpreview.aspx?fn=timothy&mn=j&ln=Gomes&dobmm=&dobdd=&doby=&city=sacramento&state=CA&vw=&Search=&utm_source=pipl&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=pipl_584&processed=1

That's pretty much the same info that I found on veromi.com. Noticed that the police report lists his name as Lawless and the alias as Gomes. He's got a facebook page with Chona Lawless on his friends list (or whatever you call it), and has a business called Next Opportunity, but you can't tell much from the website:

http://www.nextopp.com/

Looks like he lives near a couple of parks, and there is a School Street nearby, but I can't tell if there is actually a school in his vicinity.

[lorettalockhorn]

Exactly. That doesn't mean that he ISN'T....Lane Lawless has three kids, and only one shows up on the one I was able to get up, so there is still a possibility he is a nephew or grandchild. However, his name doesn't come up on a cross search on any of Lane Lawless' kids, either. Did you happen to bring up Lane Lawless? Did you see how many aliases he has? Some made sense, but some were kind of hokey....almost like he was trying to hide his real name, but didn't want to stray too far. It just seemed like too many to be mistakes made by government agencies.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong, but for someone to change their name that many times, and to change back and forth from Lane Clifford to Clifford Lane and other derivatives just seems odd, especially for a pastor. Why, if you don't want to change who people see you as? Does that make sense?

I mean, I changed my middle name to my maiden name to make it EASIER for people to find me. The only other alias is a typo by social security...the rest are all just either my middle name or middle initial.

I didn't find anything that seemed like an alias for Lane Lawless. :shrug: Clifford Lane and Lane Clifford can be explained away as a filing or alphabetizing error or filling out a form wrong. If the guy was calling himself Ford Lane or Les Law or something, I might consider that a bona fide alias.

[One2Snoop]

That's pretty much the same info that I found on veromi.com. Noticed that the police report lists his name as Lawless and the alias as Gomes. He's got a facebook page with Chona Lawless on his friends list (or whatever you call it), and has a business called Next Opportunity, but you can't tell much from the website:

http://www.nextopp.com/

Looks like he lives near a couple of parks, and there is a School Street nearby, but I can't tell if there is actually a school in his vicinity.

Thanks. Considering the source - blinks blog, I think I'll wait to see if there's a connection. I probably should've thought twice about posting it in the first place.

[lorettalockhorn]

Thanks. Considering the source - blinks blog, I think I'll wait to see if there's a connection. I probably should've thought twice about posting it in the first place.

Nah. It gave us something to research. And the b@st@rd sounds like he needs a good online bashing anyway!

PS Love your new siggie! :hat:

[DrewBerry]

Isn't fugue state a type of amnesia? Has she claimed to forget events? And doesn't it also involve traveling while dissociated?

HLN had a taped convo they played during Prime News, couldn't here it very well, but she did say that Sandra WAS her daughter's best friend. (Always suspicious of people who refer to the missing in the past tense.)

According to my DSM-IV-TR, code 300.13 is Dissociative Fugue (formerly
Psychogenic Fugue). The essential feature of Dissoc. Fugue is sudden, unexpected travel away from home or one's customary place of daily activities, with inability to recall some or all of one's past. I'll have to read more but it certainly does not qualify as insanity.
DrewB

[openthebox]

I see nothing to prove that this Tim guy and MH are related. Freaks are a dime a dozen. Freaks with the same Sirnames are a quarter a dozen.

[One2Snoop]

I see nothing to prove that this Tim guy and MH are related. Freaks are a dime a dozen. Freaks with the same Sirnames are a quarter a dozen.

I agree. I found another Timothy Lawless in Washington State, age 24.

On Feb. 5, (2008) Lawless entered guilty pleas to two counts of dissemination and two counts of possession of sexually explicit material. The incidents occurred from November 2006 until May 2007 when he was caught. Some of the images police confiscated were of children under the age of 12, while others were of minors under the age of 18. Lawless admitted he sent two e-mails with sexually explicit images attached to them — one to an individual in the United Kingdom and the other to someone in Scotland. In all, 300 pictures were found in Lawless’ Internet accounts.

http://vigilant-antis.blogspot.com/2008/02/timothy-lawless-pedophile-tells-judge.html

[javahog]

Nah. It gave us something to research. And the b@st@rd sounds like he needs a good online bashing anyway!

PS Love your new siggie! :hat:

Never hurts to point out a perv!

And isn't CA a great quote machine? Remember "science is just science. nothing is 100%"?!

[lorettalockhorn]

Never hurts to point out a perv!

And isn't CA a great quote machine? Remember "science is just science. nothing is 100%"?!

HAH! A real rocket surgeon she is! So her nursing degree. Is it a Bachelor of Arts or a Bachelor of Science?

[openthebox]

Kinda scary that they autopsy and tox records are sealed. I can only think that they must reveal something horrible.
Anybody read this differently? I have never heard of this.
Hugs to Sandra's friends and family. Such agony for them for some body's jollies.
:rose:

[lorettalockhorn]

Not overly surprised considering Huckaby hasn't entered a plea yet. But, yes. Got a feeling that's the results (esp. the autopsy) is going to be gruesome, and if little Sandra was drugged that maybe it's a blessing.

[tandarat]

That's pretty much the same info that I found on veromi.com. Noticed that the police report lists his name as Lawless and the alias as Gomes. He's got a facebook page with Chona Lawless on his friends list (or whatever you call it), and has a business called Next Opportunity, but you can't tell much from the website:

http://www.nextopp.com/

Looks like he lives near a couple of parks, and there is a School Street nearby, but I can't tell if there is actually a school in his vicinity.

Well, you can tell that at the very least his "company" doesn't know squat about design...it is GRAPHIC design, not GRAPHICAL. Not to mention the page design stinks big time. It claims they have a "staff"...of what....one? Yet another lay person who thinks that if they purchase Adobe Production Suite and a fancy computer they are automatically a "Media Design Professional". Sigh. :rolleyes:

All I know is if this guy was related to MH, it would be ALL OVER THE NEWS right now. Come one...familial ties like that?

My vote is that they are in no way related.

[lorettalockhorn]

Tandarat, I'm pretty Etarded (sorry to be politically incorrect), but it looked to me like what is offered on this guy's site is pretty much what people can do on their own.

And you're right about how lame the site is. None of the links went to a new page, but there was a disclaimer that the site was under construction. Which is what? Code for head up my arse?

If this guy is related to Melissa, surely Geraldo or JVM or NG will cover it. Won't they?

[javahog]

Kinda scary that they autopsy and tox records are sealed. I can only think that they must reveal something horrible.
Anybody read this differently? I have never heard of this.
Hugs to Sandra's friends and family. Such agony for them for some body's jollies.
:rose:

If its half as bad as the rumors I've heard from people who know people...I understand why its sealed. It WOULD enflame people more than already. How are the families living in close proximity to each other? Are they all still at the park? If so, someone should start a moving fund to help Sandra's family move out if the Lawlesses won't. They should not be confronted with the (alleged) killers family!

[One2Snoop]

If its half as bad as the rumors I've heard from people who know people...I understand why its sealed. It WOULD enflame people more than already. How are the families living in close proximity to each other? Are they all still at the park? If so, someone should start a moving fund to help Sandra's family move out if the Lawlesses won't. They should not be confronted with the (alleged) killers family!

:eek: And if that little blip of info I saw is truly an indication of what happened to Sandra, I totally agree.

[javahog]

:eek: And if that little blip of info I saw is truly an indication of what happened to Sandra, I totally agree.

I've seen a couple of other (but more oblique) comments in the Tracy Press comments section, don't seem to be the same person, but DO seem to confirm what you saw. I think its true :(

[lorettalockhorn]

Cantu autopsy to remain sealed to avoid 'outrage'

STOCKTON — Results of autopsy and toxicology reports on slain 8-year-old Sandra Cantu could so infuriate the public that a judge asked them to remain sealed.

To release the reports would risk “a danger of public outrage” and threaten the Cantu family’s privacy, said San Joaquin County Superior Court Judge Linda Lofthus at an arraignment today for suspected murder-rapist 28-year-old Melissa Chantel Huckaby.

Huckaby entered no plea.

“There is no doubt that the public considers the rape and murder of a child a heinous crime,” said Lofthus, who issued a gag order Tuesday. To seal all the documents related to the case will ensure a fair trial for both sides, she continued.

The defense dropped its request to exhume the little girl’s body.

Prosecutor Thomas Testa said both sides need about a month to review findings, which includes nearly 500 pages of written evidence and some audio recordings, he said. Lofthus ordered Huckaby back in court at 1 p.m. May 22 in Dept. 14 for further arraignment.

Huckaby’s demeanor in court today came as a stark contrast to her near-emotional breakdown at her first arraignment earlier this month. She smiled a few times at her public defender, Sam Behar. She stared calmly at the judge and at the dozens of reporters and the bailiffs who surrounded her during the brief hearing. She wore her hair down.

She sat calmly before the packed courtroom; her family sat behind her in the audience — father, Brian Lawless; grandmother, Connie Lawless; and aunt, Joni Hughes.

Sandra’s family sat on the opposite side of the room. The girl’s uncle and aunt, Joe and Angie Chavez, sat with Sandra’s grandparents, José and Dolores Chavez. Susan Levy joined them. Sandra’s father, Daniel Cantu, and her mother, Maria Chavez, were absent.

Reporters crowded the courtroom. The judge banned all cameras and audio recorders, so photographers waited outside. The media attention has been overwhelming for everyone involved, the judge said.

“This is the kind of case that we’ve never experienced in San Joaquin County,” Lofthus said.

Police arrested Huckaby on April 10, four days after they found Sandra’s body inside a waterproof suitcase. The girl went missing on March 27.

Huckaby was booked at San Joaquin County Jail without bail on charges that she kidnapped Sandra, raped her with some object and killed her. As charged, the single mother of a 5-year-old girl now faces the death penalty or life without possibility of parole if convicted.


http://tracypress.com/pages/full_story?page_label=home&id=2443601-Cantu+autopsy+to+remain+sealed+to+avoid+-outrage-&article-Cantu%20autopsy%20to%20remain%20sealed%20to%20avoi d%20-outrage-%20=&widget=push&instance=home_news_bullets&open=&

JMO, but to publish the (nebulous) reason for the results to be sealed probably fuels speculation and outrage about as much as releasing them. And according to what I've read that may or may not be true, I'm surprised Huckaby's not wearing a bulletproof vest to court.

[javahog]

JMO, but to publish the (nebulous) reason for the results to be sealed probably fuels speculation and outrage about as much as releasing them. And according to what I've read that may or may not be true, I'm surprised Huckaby's not wearing a bulletproof vest to court.

I don't see why the judge couldn't have sealed it without making a comment on why. I think it did make things worse-he should have just said in the interest of venue, he was sealing it..., as now people are speculating on what is in there...

[lorettalockhorn]

I don't see why the judge couldn't have sealed it without making a comment on why. I think it did make things worse-he should have just said in the interest of venue, he was sealing it..., as now people are speculating on what is in there...

Really. What the hell was he thinking?

[One2Snoop]

I don't see why the judge couldn't have sealed it without making a comment on why.I think it did make things worse-he should have just said in the interest of venue, he was sealing it..., as now people are speculating on what is in there...

If the leaks we've seen posted elsewhere are any indication of what really happened to Sandra, I agree, shame on the judge :punch: for doing/saying what he did. :cuss: :flamemad:

[deacon]

HAH! A real rocket surgeon she is! So her nursing degree. Is it a Bachelor of Arts or a Bachelor of Science?

Not either, a b s degree.:o

[old_soul]

Cantu autopsy to remain sealed to avoid 'outrage'

STOCKTON — Results of autopsy and toxicology reports on slain 8-year-old Sandra Cantu could so infuriate the public that a judge asked them to remain sealed.

To release the reports would risk “a danger of public outrage” and threaten the Cantu family’s privacy, said San Joaquin County Superior Court Judge Linda Lofthus at an arraignment today for suspected murder-rapist 28-year-old Melissa Chantel Huckaby.

Huckaby entered no plea.

“There is no doubt that the public considers the rape and murder of a child a heinous crime,” said Lofthus, who issued a gag order Tuesday. To seal all the documents related to the case will ensure a fair trial for both sides, she continued.

The defense dropped its request to exhume the little girl’s body.

Prosecutor Thomas Testa said both sides need about a month to review findings, which includes nearly 500 pages of written evidence and some audio recordings, he said. Lofthus ordered Huckaby back in court at 1 p.m. May 22 in Dept. 14 for further arraignment.

Huckaby’s demeanor in court today came as a stark contrast to her near-emotional breakdown at her first arraignment earlier this month. She smiled a few times at her public defender, Sam Behar. She stared calmly at the judge and at the dozens of reporters and the bailiffs who surrounded her during the brief hearing. She wore her hair down.

She sat calmly before the packed courtroom; her family sat behind her in the audience — father, Brian Lawless; grandmother, Connie Lawless; and aunt, Joni Hughes.

Sandra’s family sat on the opposite side of the room. The girl’s uncle and aunt, Joe and Angie Chavez, sat with Sandra’s grandparents, José and Dolores Chavez. Susan Levy joined them. Sandra’s father, Daniel Cantu, and her mother, Maria Chavez, were absent.

Reporters crowded the courtroom. The judge banned all cameras and audio recorders, so photographers waited outside. The media attention has been overwhelming for everyone involved, the judge said.

“This is the kind of case that we’ve never experienced in San Joaquin County,” Lofthus said.

Police arrested Huckaby on April 10, four days after they found Sandra’s body inside a waterproof suitcase. The girl went missing on March 27.

Huckaby was booked at San Joaquin County Jail without bail on charges that she kidnapped Sandra, raped her with some object and killed her. As charged, the single mother of a 5-year-old girl now faces the death penalty or life without possibility of parole if convicted.


http://tracypress.com/pages/full_story?page_label=home&id=2443601-Cantu+autopsy+to+remain+sealed+to+avoid+-outrage-&article-Cantu%20autopsy%20to%20remain%20sealed%20to%20avoi d%20-outrage-%20=&widget=push&instance=home_news_bullets&open=&

JMO, but to publish the (nebulous) reason for the results to be sealed probably fuels speculation and outrage about as much as releasing them. And according to what I've read that may or may not be true, I'm surprised Huckaby's not wearing a bulletproof vest to court.

Hmmmm......never have seen the suitcase referred to as waterproof. I don't know how much it would help as far as evidence, but I hope it did help to preserve something. Haven't seen any of the recent leaks/talk about what happened or might be in Tox reports...if anyone has a good link or info, I'd love it. Haven't had time to check any info out...TIA!

Very sad, thinking about what they have sealed, and what it might contain... apparently they have the goods on her other than what we know about. Not only a murdering pervert, but dumb as dirt. Her mental state before or after is a BS point to me, because she not only did it, she hid the body and lied afterward. Enough of a brain to do the deed and try to cover it up...stupid enough to call the press and report it was her suitcase and claim it was stolen.

[wind149]

I just heard on NG that the judge has ordered the autopsy and tox screens to be sealed as he does not want to infuriate the public, well, too late there Your Honor, people are going to be pissed off till the day MH breathes her last! But I agree with Nancy, what could have been done to this child that he wants to keep[ mum about?? Conjures up horror scenes in my head for sure, and I am not liking that I feel this way. I can only guess or speculate that she suffered greatly at the hands of this dirtbag woman. We all know women kill their own kids and husbands or even parents, but this woman is in a league of her own in the sense that she killed a child whose family entrusted her with said child and the sexual abuse and what makes this even more horrific is these acts were committed by a woman and not a male sex offender which I was leaning heavily towards seeing as there was 76 or so of them in that area. I pretty much am jaded by now so this one threw me a curve I never saw coming and even worse, neither did this little angel's family and that is infuriating enough in itself and I appreciate that the judge is trying to protect the public from knowing what this child died from but will the DA be able to tell her family at some point? And today, this b*tch once again asked for time to cop a plea and it is easy. GUILTY OR NOT GUILTY???? I think she needs to plead guilty, get a death sentence and spare this family the agony of sitting in a courtroom with her on the stand telling what she did to Sandy. I so admired Mark Lunsford for keeping his act together at that scumbag Couey's trial, I don't think I could have handled it and I think she owes the family her life, but if she is dragging her heels to plead, I think this trial is years away.

[POE-33]

If its half as bad as the rumors I've heard from people who know people...I understand why its sealed. It WOULD enflame people more than already. How are the families living in close proximity to each other? Are they all still at the park? If so, someone should start a moving fund to help Sandra's family move out if the Lawlesses won't. They should not be confronted with the (alleged) killers family!

That has aroused my curiosity too.
I'm curious about what the autopsy showed that would inflame the community beyond their current outrage.
The only thing that I can think of is that the child was tortured in addition to being raped and murdered.
:confused:

[DrewBerry]

I just heard on NG that the judge has ordered the autopsy and tox screens to be sealed as he does not want to infuriate the public, well, too late there Your Honor, people are going to be pissed off till the day MH breathes her last! But I agree with Nancy, what could have been done to this child that he wants to keep[ mum about?? Conjures up horror scenes in my head for sure, and I am not liking that I feel this way. I can only guess or speculate that she suffered greatly at the hands of this dirtbag woman. We all know women kill their own kids and husbands or even parents, but this woman is in a league of her own in the sense that she killed a child whose family entrusted her with said child and the sexual abuse and what makes this even more horrific is these acts were committed by a woman and not a male sex offender which I was leaning heavily towards seeing as there was 76 or so of them in that area. I pretty much am jaded by now so this one threw me a curve I never saw coming and even worse, neither did this little angel's family and that is infuriating enough in itself and I appreciate that the judge is trying to protect the public from knowing what this child died from but will the DA be able to tell her family at some point? And today, this b*tch once again asked for time to cop a plea and it is easy. GUILTY OR NOT GUILTY???? I think she needs to plead guilty, get a death sentence and spare this family the agony of sitting in a courtroom with her on the stand telling what she did to Sandy. I so admired Mark Lunsford for keeping his act together at that scumbag Couey's trial, I don't think I could have handled it and I think she owes the family her life, but if she is dragging her heels to plead, I think this trial is years away.

Hi there, Wind. This one threw us all a curve. That poor child was violently assaulted and murdered by an adult she trusted. This so called "Sunday School Teacher" is another piece of trash that does not deserve to live. This one has really hit me hard. This scum bag needs to plead guilty and spare little Sandra's family from the agony of the details of her death. My gawd, why are these people allowed more rights than their innocent victims?! I agree; Mark Lundsford and Mark Klaas were able to keep their act together. I know I couldn't do it. I would be locked away in a mental institution if my child was murdered. I am jaded too. I could care less about scumbags like this woman and the likes of worthless human beings like Couey and his F***ing family. :flamemad:
DrewB

[One2Snoop]

:rolleyes:

Psychic makes claim to reward money in Cantu case
By Mike Martinez
San Joaquin Herald
Posted: 04/30/2009 03:51:11 PM PDT
Updated: 04/30/2009 04:49:30 PM PDT

TRACY —A Southern California woman is in a dispute with Tracy police over whether her psychic predictions helped them solve the Sandra Cantu murder case.

She thinks she's entitled to at least a portion of the reward money, totaling more than $30,000, but Tracy police say they never used any information provided by any psychics during the investigation.

Dani Pedlow, based in Los Angeles, said she predicted the little girl would be found in a "barranca"— a Spanish word for canyon or ravine — and that she was killed in a church, and the killer was someone in the trailer park the little girl called home.

Pedlow said she helps solve crimes for a living and recently helped find a Las Vegas runaway and described on a New York radio show how police would capture a serial killer.

She was contacted by a local resident who is also one of her clients.

"At the time, I hadn't ever been to Tracy and wasn't even quite sure where it was,'' Pedlow said. "I texted and e-mailed her from Las Vegas. I told her I see a barranca. I talked about a church. I told her I see the church straight across from the park, and I see water, sand and gravel. I had the sense of something being dragged.''

Although there is no park near the Clover Road Baptist Church, which was searched as part of the investigation, behind it is a large, open grassy field.

Melissa Huckaby, 28, of Tracy, has been charged with murdering 8-year-old Sandra Cantu, and with enhancements — kidnapping, lewd or lascivious acts on a child and rape by a foreign object — she could face the death penalty if convicted.

Huckaby lived with her grandparents, who operate the church, which is near the Orchard Estates Mobile Home Park, only a few doors down from Cantu.

Sources have said the girl appears to have been murdered in a crawl space underneath the church, where investigators also found a pair of gloves. Sandra, who was last seen around 4 p.m. March 27 on videotape surveillance captured in front of her home, was found 10 days later stuffed into a suitcase that floated to the surface of a retaining pond at a local dairy.

Police said a farmworker at the dairy noticed the suitcase and notified authorities.

"We never reviewed or utilized any information from a psychic during this investigation,'' Tracy police Sgt. Tony Sheneman said.

Huckaby publicly admitted the suitcase the girl was found in belonged to her but said it was stolen from her driveway the day Sandra disappeared. She's scheduled to return to court May 22 for further arraignment.

Pedlow delivered a letter with her contact information to Tracy police explaining why she believes she's entitled to the reward money. She said police told her they hadn't decided who to give the reward money to, but no one has ever called her, not even from the Tracy Crimestoppers, the nonprofit organization that offers rewards to people who help solve local crimes.

"It sounds like subterfuge," Pedlow said. "They put the brakes on. No one would respond. I understand because I live in Los Angeles, but one sentence about not having made up their minds sounds to me like they are trying to distance themselves from me."

Scott Webb, executive director of the Modesto-based Sund/Carrington Foundation, said it is paying a little more than $20,000 to the anonymous tipster who found the suitcase April 6 just off of Whitehall Road north of Tracy.

Webb said the organization has never paid any psychic reward money in the more than 40 cases it has helped solve.

"Tracy police has identified an individual who was responsible for (Sandra's) recovery," Webb said. "We had several large donations, but we've been receiving cards, letters and financial support from all over the country. I think the community should know they've been very helpful in this situation. Many other families are going through the same thing, and they don't get the same amount of attention.''

http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_12265572

[javahog]

Oh, for heaven's sake.

Thank you, farmworker(s), for making the call, even though you were probably afraid to make that call!

[tandarat]

OK, that was a rather vague description. The only thing that is the slightest bit interesting is the church, but there are churches everywhere, and she didn't say anything about whether Sandra was killed there. The rest could be a description of hundreds of crimes. If she had more detailed information about what had happened, I'd be willing to consider it. Reward? I don't think so, hon.

[tandarat]

BTW, this is the first I heard that they think she was killed in the CRAWLSPACE of the church? Is that accurate? If so......that sends shivers down my spine.

[old_soul]

BTW, this is the first I heard that they think she was killed in the CRAWLSPACE of the church? Is that accurate? If so......that sends shivers down my spine.

I never heard that either....When I get a chance, I'd like to find out more about it...and those gloves too. WTF??

Sorry, the psycho/physic deserves nothing. Give the money to the farmhands who were scared s**tless, but called LE anyway. If they still don't want to take the $ it can go into a fund started in Sandra's name or the Carrington fund.

imagine that, she wants a cut of the $ ! Pfft.

[Nawny]

My understanding is that you are pretty much unaware of what you are doing as you do it....completely oblivious. And yes, generally you don't remember, or remember just bits and pieces. It is almost catatonic, but you are doing things. I had them when I was younger when I had severe migraines....I would go anywhere from a couple of hours to a couple of days and not remember any of it. I was just doing day-to-day stuff. When prompted, sometimes I could remember parts of it, but it was almost dreamlike. And no, I never did anything bad during these episodes :).

Essentially it is sometimes classified as a type of amnesia, but there is a lot more to it. Just the fact that she claimed not to hear, and then could not be gotten out points to some kind of psychological "distance" from the real world at the time. Or, as I said, she was half-heartedly trying to kill herself, but didn't want to admit it, especially due to the potential of an arson charge and connecting her to the first arson. Personally, from the other info gathered, I'd bet on door #2, myself.

Unfortunately, she could claim some kind of "out of body" situation in which she was not in control of what she was doing, and therefore couldn't know what she was doing was wrong. That would be a way out there defense, and probably not work, but it is a possible defense when looking at some of her past actions.
I think it is safe to say that this woman has some serious issues. About the closest description I can come to is WACKED. I can only shake my head. The rape charge is starting to look more believable, but in truth I don't think it would be either sexual or power-motivated in nature.


I agree that would be no "way out of the defense" and certainly, we know that SHE knew what she was doing at the time no matter what she remembers now. I do have a question though, seeing that you know a lot about this state of disassociation; How does a person resolve this? I mean, is there a professional medical or psychiatric format that can address/cure/explain it?

[lorettalockhorn]

Female Sex Killers: The Devious Predators
April 30, 2009

Dr. Deborah Schurman-Kauflin As an expert criminal profiler who has studied and investigated serial killers for over 20 years, Dr. Deborah Schurman-Kauflin has had contact with some of the world's most elusive hunters. Dr. Schurman-Kauflin is also the only profiler who has ever interviewed and profiled a large group of female serial killers. As a result of her first-hand experience, Dr. Schurman-Kauflin has come away with a vast knowledge of female predators - a knowledge that gives her unique insight into the Sandra Cantu murder case.

"Though rare, such predators are more common than the general public knows," Dr. Schurman-Kauflin told Investigation Discovery. "Why? In most instances, when a female rapes and kills a victim, the act is done in conjunction with a male partner. As such, when caught, the females play innocent and blame the male. This strategy has proven highly effective over the years because people are hesitant to believe that a woman could rape and murder. But it does happen, and sometimes, the female will act alone."

Of the many interviews that she has conducted, Dr. Schurman-Kauflin said that the only offender who ever made her feel uncomfortable was a female sex killer who bragged about the pleasure she felt whenever she drew blood with a knife. That same offender also told Dr. Schurman-Kauflin that given the opportunity, she would kill again.

"These offenders are a unique breed in that they have a real taste for hurting helpless victims," Dr. Schurman-Kauflin said. "They enjoy the feeling they get when using objects to rape. In fact, female rape killers will often use jagged instruments when they attack. These women are especially brutal with female victims, and will almost always mutilate the genitalia. Such women have told me that they chose to hurt their victims so viciously because it turned them on. Like their male counterparts, it was sexually exciting."

According to Dr. Schurman-Kauflin, it is the gender of these "super predators" that allows them access to almost any type of victim.

"To capture their prey, these women use a rouse to trick their victims who are always smaller in size," Dr. Schurman-Kauflin said. "They use their gender as a cover for their evil intentions because most people find it hard to believe that the fairer sex could rape and kill a child. However, children are not their only victims. Such offenders have been known to target adults since everyone is less wary of a woman."

Through her studies, Dr. Schurman-Kauflin has learned that female killers are drawn to traditionally feminine jobs, such as nursing, care giving, teaching and the sex trade.

"These fields give them natural cover to get close to victims," she said. "Like their male counterparts, female sex killers fantasize about rape and murder. However, unlike men, women tend to be less selective about the type of victims they choose. For instance, male sex killers typically prefer certain types of victim such as twenty-year-old blondes. But for the women, victim age and gender are less important than opportunity. Female predators search for that which is easy to get. If she works in a nursing home, she may go after the elderly and rape them in their beds. If the woman works as a prostitute, she will target customers. If she teaches, she often sets her sights on students. These women crave what is familiar to them, and they watch their prey over time to assess how easy it would be to attack. The killers tend to have spotty work histories as well as a string of failed relationships. They dabble in sexual relationships and will try everything from lesbianism to child molestation. Emotionally they find it hard to be centered, and family will cover for the women when they engage in strange behavior."

By looking at the predators backgrounds, Dr. Schurman-Kauflin has found that their life patterns tend to include:

* Loneliness
* Child abuse (victim of)
* Fantasy; Acting out (violent against animals & other children)
* Sexually promiscuous
* Psychopathic behavior (stealing, fire setting, lying)
* Attaching to steady figure (older male)
* Increased time alone
* Practicing violence
* Kidnap; and Kill

"The interesting part of this pattern is that when looking back, it is easy to see how the women progressed," Dr. Schurman-Kauflin said. "And there is almost always someone who knew about the increasingly dangerous behavior but did nothing to stop it. There is a tendency in families to hide problems, and those that produce female rape murderers are no exception. The crimes are so aberrant that even those close to these women find it hard to believe that their child/friend/spouse could do such things. The women are well aware of this and use it to their advantage. At every turn, they will plant doubt into the minds of those who question. They will act strange on purpose to try to confuse people. Then they turn on the water works and cry to appear innocent. The thing that tends to be consistent with these killers is that people around them will say that the women were strange or unusual. Others will even say that the women made them feel uncomfortable at times, but again, because of their gender, people are reluctant to be suspicious."

According to Dr. Schurman-Kauflin, the female predator will go to emotional extremes when they are caught and will do anything from attempting to seduce an investigator, to acting out in an almost psychotic way. While they will be more receptive when talking to other female killers, they will lie and give self-serving confessions.

"They will be flamboyant and spin tales of their own horrific abuse in order to garner sympathy," Dr. Schurman-Kauflin said. "However, make no mistake, such women are devious and know exactly what they are doing. They use the rarity of their crimes to hide the truth of what lies beneath their façades. These types of crimes are actually becoming more common, so parents must become educated about this newer predator that is stalking their children. As awareness grows, expect to see the discovery of more of these types of crimes. When society realizes what has been hiding in its midst, an innocence will be lost, but protection will be gained."

Female Sex Predators

In regard to the Sandra Cantu murder case, Dr. Schurman-Kauflin said that while people will be "shocked" when they discover what happened, the horror of the case will provide the necessary wake-up call that parents need, so that they can be forearmed in the future.

For more information on Deborah Schurman-Kauflin, Ph.D., please visit the Violent Crimes Institute, LLC Website, at www.drdsk.com.

http://blogs.discovery.com/criminal_report/2009/04/female-sex-killers.html

[tandarat]

I agree that would be no "way out of the defense" and certainly, we know that SHE knew what she was doing at the time no matter what she remembers now. I do have a question though, seeing that you know a lot about this state of disassociation; How does a person resolve this? I mean, is there a professional medical or psychiatric format that can address/cure/explain it?

Truthfully, I have no clue. It's been probably 20 years since I took those psych classes, and I still read up on it to a certain degree, but I have no idea what advances have been made in psychiatric treatment of these kinds of disorders. I would guess that certain anti-psychotic medications and maybe some anti-seizure meds would be helpful, but that is pure speculation on my part. Back when I was in school I believe therapy was the main course of treatment, without very good results. There has been a lot of progress in treating mental illness since then, and while I'm sure improvements have been made, I have no idea what the prognosis would be for this. Perhaps there is someone here who has more experience in psychology who could help? I'm curious, too.

[javahog]

Well, good news! The reward did NOT go to the psychic, it went to the farmworker at the dairy who found the suitcase and called the police.

http://www.tracypress.com/pages/full_story?page_label=home&id=2517525-Farmworker+gets+his+reward&widget=push&instance=home_news_bullets&article-Farmworker%20gets%20his%20reward%20=&open=&

This guy came forward in spite of his fear of the possible repercussions, yet he did anyway. That should be rewarded.

[lorettalockhorn]

Thanks for the link.

...Franco wanted the money to go to the Chavez family...

...the day he found Sandra, April 6, was the “worst day of his life.” ...

Bless him for coming forward and thank God he found Sandra soon enough for the autopsy to be conclusive.

[javahog]

An ugly custody fight is flaring up between the ex-husband of Melissa Huckaby and her mother...Mrs. Lawless has apparently been fleeing the ex and hiding the girl in various locations...for her part, she claims he is a deadbeat dad, to which he responds that crazy Melissa said she'd disappear the girl if he tried to see her anymore...wow.

http://www.tracypress.com/pages/full_story?article-Huckaby%20swallowed%20razor%20blades%20in%20suicid e%20try-%20ex-husband%20says%20=&page_label=home&id=2594324-Huckaby+swallowed+razor+blades+in+suicide+try-+ex-husband+says&widget=push&instance=home_news_lead_story&open=&

[JLette]

An ugly custody fight is flaring up between the ex-husband of Melissa Huckaby and her mother...Mrs. Lawless has apparently been fleeing the ex and hiding the girl in various locations...for her part, she claims he is a deadbeat dad, to which he responds that crazy Melissa said she'd disappear the girl if he tried to see her anymore...wow.

http://www.tracypress.com/pages/full_story?article-Huckaby%20swallowed%20razor%20blades%20in%20suicid e%20try-%20ex-husband%20says%20=&page_label=home&id=2594324-Huckaby+swallowed+razor+blades+in+suicide+try-+ex-husband+says&widget=push&instance=home_news_lead_story&open=&

quite frankly if i was that guy i would do whatever i could to get my child away from that whole family, obviously somethin aint right there and in light of the events surrounding this woman i would not be surprised if by "disappear" she meant kill

[lorettalockhorn]

An ugly custody fight is flaring up between the ex-husband of Melissa Huckaby and her mother...Mrs. Lawless has apparently been fleeing the ex and hiding the girl in various locations...for her part, she claims he is a deadbeat dad, to which he responds that crazy Melissa said she'd disappear the girl if he tried to see her anymore...wow.

http://www.tracypress.com/pages/full_story?article-Huckaby%20swallowed%20razor%20blades%20in%20suicid e%20try-%20ex-husband%20says%20=&page_label=home&id=2594324-Huckaby+swallowed+razor+blades+in+suicide+try-+ex-husband+says&widget=push&instance=home_news_lead_story&open=&

Gosh, had no idea that Mrs. Lawless had custody. Methinks that side of the family may be whack. On the other hand, I can see that having the very least interruption in the child's life should be a consideration. Wonder if she's less sickly now that her mother's in the pokey.

[javahog]

Gosh, had no idea that Mrs. Lawless had custody. Methinks that side of the family may be whack. On the other hand, I can see that having the very least interruption in the child's life should be a consideration. Wonder if she's less sickly now that her mother's in the pokey.

This may be unfair to them, but I lean toward a clean break on this...I always wonder about kids whose parents are killers having family members tell them wonderful things about them...it must be very conflicting...

I say, give dad a shot under supervision. At least he hasn't killed any of the little girl's friends that we know of...

[javahog]

You can add at least two poisonings to the list of charges, not only the 7 year-old girl spoken of often, but now a grown man...:shrug:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/05/22/BAM917PDHE.DTL&tsp=1

[old_soul]

You can add at least two poisonings to the list of charges, not only the 7 year-old girl spoken of often, but now a grown man...:shrug:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/05/22/BAM917PDHE.DTL&tsp=1

Yup, just heard about it all.

Looks like Ms H should have been put in a room with padded walls years ago.

Mommy and daddy were hiding her...........nice. Get them as accessories after the fact. Or is it before? :flamemad:

[javahog]

Yup, just heard about it all.

Looks like Ms H should have been put in a room with padded walls years ago.

Mommy and daddy were hiding her...........nice. Get them as accessories after the fact. Or is it before? :flamemad:

What is all on the allegations list right now? multiple arsons, multiple poisonings, kidnapping, rape, and murder...

She walked among us, folks! Who else is out there, right now, walking free?