Discussion of things related only to the 8 year old accused of murder.

[Its just me]

This thread has been started to discuss our opinions and things related to the child accused of murder. I think it will help keep the discussions on one topic.

I'm not aware of any rule that does not allow this to be done but if there are I'm asking the admin/mod to consider allowing the thread to stay. If it needs to be deleted I understand having to obey the rules and please accept my apology for not knowing them. fep

[William Anthony]

This thread has been started to discuss our opinions and things related to the child accused of murder. I think it will help keep the discussions on one topic.

I'm not aware of any rule that does not allow this to be done but if there are I'm asking the admin/mod to consider allowing the thread to stay. If it needs to be deleted I understand having to obey the rules and please accept my apology for not knowing them. fep

Please, do not take offense as none is intended. I think sometimes I have studied law too long. :) I do believe I understand what you are trying to say and this concerns me only in how it is stated, "and things related to the child accused of murder." If I understand you correctly, you mean things related to the child prior to the shootings, and the effect of LE's treatment on the child and what effect that may have on the child and not the crime for which the child has been arrested, correct?

[Its just me]

This thread is for things related to the 8 year old boy accused of murder. We are each different...it is left up to each of you what is posted if you choose to post on this thread but it needs to be related just to the boy. MHOO is from birth to the present but I'm not sure what Joseph's opinion is and that is important because this idea came from him....Hopefully he will have a post soon. MHOO is the other thread is for things related to the case. fep

[William Anthony]

This thread is for things related to the 8 year old boy accused of murder. We are each different...it is left up to each of you what is posted if you choose to post on this thread but it needs to be related just to the boy. MHOO is from birth to the present but I'm not sure what Joseph's opinion is and that is important because this idea came from him....Hopefully he will have a post soon. MHOO is the other thread is for things related to the case. fep

Thanks for the clarification. I do see that there will be some overlapping. For instance, the issue of the child being given a riffle and taught how to use it at such a tender age, if that was, in fact, the case. I thought that was what you meant but did not want to be so presumptuous as to try to speak for you.

[tr7fan]

http://www.azcentral.com/video/?type=mavenfull&id=videopage&videoID=1025059515

latest video looks like the documents have been out awhile watching the defense councils video they act upbeat
some of this is shows reports from st johns police so what can i say :beer::beer:

[William Anthony]

http://www.azcentral.com/video/?type=mavenfull&id=videopage&videoID=1025059515

latest video looks like the documents have been out awhile watching the defense councils video they act upbeat
some of this is shows reports from st johns police so what can i say :beer::beer:

That is a disturbing video clip. I know that, if I had told my parent(s) I was going to kill them, I would have needed dental work. If those statements are true, then that child had some very serious emotional/mental problems and the cause of them needs to be looked into, imho. I don't know what stage child psychology was in when I went to elementary school. I seem to remember the only professional, other than a teacher on staff, was a nurse. In any event, in my mind this child got off easy with a slap, if that was all that was done, when he told his father he would kill him. I remember when my hormones were raging and I talked back to my father. He told me that he brought me into this world and he would take me out. I had no reason not to believe him and adjusted my behavior to account for that fact. To be forewarned is to be forearmed.

[Its just me]

That is a disturbing video clip. I know that, if I had told my parent(s) I was going to kill them, I would have needed dental work. If those statements are true, then that child had some very serious emotional/mental problems and the cause of them needs to be looked into, imho. I don't know what stage child psychology was in when I went to elementary school. I seem to remember the only professional, other than a teacher on staff, was a nurse. In any event, in my mind this child got off easy with a slap, if that was all that was done, when he told his father he would kill him. I remember when my hormones were raging and I talked back to my father. He told me that he brought me into this world and he would take me out. I had no reason not to believe him and adjusted my behavior to account for that fact. To be forewarned is to be forearmed.

Without knowing more details I think it takes a narror mind to think the slap was justified. Do you not think it strange that guns were everywhere after the child told the dad he would kill him. At this point there are some signs of abuse....the grandmothers remark they were too hard on the child and the childs bloody underwear found by the family friends cleaning the house. How you were raised don't have poop to do with how this child was raised or what was behind the slap. IMHOO Only time and more information will show the real story. fep

ETA: It's also distrubing that if CR has such mental and emotional problems he is has been released to be with his mother.
Sincere Prayers for all involved. fep

[FDInLaw]

From the link. . .
"found a little boy's underwear with blood stains. . . " (not a direct quote)

:flamemad:

I'm having a hard time feeling for these men. Why the "H" did no one step in and help this little guy? After seeing that, I have a feeling that a deal is being worked out right now.

[Its just me]

From the link. . .
"found a little boy's underwear with blood stains. . . " (not a direct quote)

:flamemad:

I'm having a hard time feeling for these men. Why the "H" did no one step in and help this little guy? After seeing that, I have a feeling that a deal is being worked out right now.

ITA.

I remember the grandpa not wanting CR to be questioned again by LE but asked it be done by a professional (can’t remember what term he used) and the grandmother started to say more and the grandpa told her to go ahead and tell but there was nothing in the report that she did. All very distrubing. fep

[FDInLaw]

ITA.

I remember the grandpa not wanting CR to be questioned again by LE but asked it be done by a professional (can’t remember what term he used) and the grandmother started to say more and the grandpa told her to go ahead and tell but there was nothing in the report that she did. All very distrubing. fep

The claim that CR tried to drowned another is extremely disturbing and needs to be checked out thoroughly. I'm not certain that letting the boy live with his Mom is the best option now. Very scary! This poor boy needs some serious counseling and a stable environment that does not endanger other children. I'm not sure how that can be done. Juvie is not the answer here.

[William Anthony]

Without knowing more details I think it takes a narror mind to think the slap was justified. Do you not think it strange that guns were everywhere after the child told the dad he would kill him. At this point there are some signs of abuse....the grandmothers remark they were too hard on the child and the childs bloody underwear found by the family friends cleaning the house. How you were raised don't have poop to do with how this child was raised or what was behind the slap. IMHOO Only time and more information will show the real story. fep

ETA: It's also distrubing that if CR has such mental and emotional problems he is has been released to be with his mother.
Sincere Prayers for all involved. fep

How I was raised and you were raised as with anyone else has to do with the basis on which we form opinions. You recently agreed with the article I supplied by Dr. Keith. That is simply a restatement of that article, meaning environmental plus other factors play a role in a child's conduct. Did you forget this portion of my post, "If those statements are true, then that child had some very serious emotional/mental problems and the cause of them needs to be looked into, imho." The fact that blood was found in underwear, without knowing more, does not automatically equate to abuse. I have not said that the slap was justified. I said the child got off easily. It would take a narrow mind not to consider that there was something wrong with a child, who allegedly repeated a desire to kill his parent. However, the slap, in my opinion, was the least that I would have done to a child of mine that said that to me and I would be willing to bet that there are others, who feel the way I do.

[William Anthony]

The claim that CR tried to drowned another is extremely disturbing and needs to be checked out thoroughly. I'm not certain that letting the boy live with his Mom is the best option now. Very scary! This poor boy needs some serious counseling and a stable environment that does not endanger other children. I'm not sure how that can be done. Juvie is not the answer here.

According to my understanding, the grandfather wanted a psychologist present. ITA.

[FDInLaw]

How I was raised and you were raised as with anyone else has to do with the basis on which we form opinions. You recently agreed with the article I supplied by Dr. Keith. That is simply a restatement of that article, meaning environmental plus other factors play a role in a child's conduct. Did you forget this portion of my post, "If those statements are true, then that child had some very serious emotional/mental problems and the cause of them needs to be looked into, imho." The fact that blood was found in underwear, without knowing more, does not automatically equate to abuse. I have not said that the slap was justified. I said the child got off easily. It would take a narrow mind not to consider that there was something wrong with a child, who allegedly repeated a desire to kill his parent. However, the slap, in my opinion, was the least that I would have done to a child of mine that said that to me and I would be willing to bet that there are others, who feel the way I do.
If CR did make the treats to kill his Dad, why in tarnation did the father buy his son a gun? Why were firearms and ammo left within reach??? A real head-shaker. No one took this child seriously. Why was he in the Father's custody???

[William Anthony]

If CR did make the treats to kill his Dad, why in tarnation did the father buy his son a gun? Why were firearms and ammo left within reach??? A real head-shaker. No one took this child seriously. Why was he in the Father's custody???

The father did not buy the gun, according to my understanding. He gave it to him as a present. We do not know the time frame in which the threats were made. This is what I meant by a slap. I think that would tell the boy that he was not to say that again. I think some sterner action would have let the boy know that he was not to think it again. Yes, I agree this case is a travesty. I said long ago that this child might have been failed by society and his family members. Now, it seems that Mr. Romero may have failed himself by not taking the child seriously. I would like to know the circumstances to have caused the boy to make the threat, if he did.

[FDInLaw]

The father did not buy the gun, according to my understanding. He gave it to him as a present. We do not know the time frame in which the threats were made. This is what I meant by a slap. I think that would tell the boy that he was not to say that again. I think some sterner action would have let the boy know that he was not to think it again. Yes, I agree this case is a travesty. I said long ago that this child might have been failed by society and his family members. Now, it seems that Mr. Romero may have failed himself by not taking the child seriously. I would like to know the circumstances to have caused the boy to make the threat, if he did.
You've summed this case in a nutshell. :( :rose:

The article you posted comes to mind over and over again. The environment this child was in cannot be ignored, but it seems that some want this child to be some sort of anomaly, a demon in his own right and of his own doing (or so I've read other places). The news of Vince and Tim not being “perfect” is no surprise. . . the details are heartbreaking though.

[William Anthony]

You've summed this case in a nutshell. :( :rose:

The article you posted comes to mind over and over again. The environment this child was in cannot be ignored, but it seems that some want this child to be some sort of anomaly, a demon in his own right and of his own doing (or so I've read other places). The news of Vince and Tim not being “perfect” is no surprise. . . the details are heartbreaking though.

I would that it was true but I think there is more to come, which might allow us to change our opinions.

[goodguy]

to prevent children from shooting people and pets no one under the age of 18should be allowed to have access to a fire arm. then try them as adults if they miss use a firearm... use some common sense.

[goodguy]

[QUOTE=goodguy;9171594]to prevent children from shooting people and pets no one under the age of 18should be allowed to have access to a fire arm. then try them as adults if they miss use a firearm... use some common sense

treat kids as what they are .

[Jadedblueeyes]

The father did not buy the gun, according to my understanding. He gave it to him as a present. We do not know the time frame in which the threats were made. This is what I meant by a slap. I think that would tell the boy that he was not to say that again. I think some sterner action would have let the boy know that he was not to think it again. Yes, I agree this case is a travesty. I said long ago that this child might have been failed by society and his family members. Now, it seems that Mr. Romero may have failed himself by not taking the child seriously. I would like to know the circumstances to have caused the boy to make the threat, if he did.

Yes, Vincent had this gun ever since he was this boy's age and he was 29 years old when he was murdered. It shows it is the mindset of the person that makes any weapon, a weapon to be used against human beings. That was the difference in this boy and his own father. His father respected the gun and never harmed another human being with it.

This boy had told another boy he went to school with that he was going to kill his father. Iirc that was about 3 weeks before VR's death. I highly doubt he ever knew about that threat though. He made another threat and this time it was to his father in a recent hunting trip with family members shortly before his death.

I do not hold it against Vinnie for slapping the child, even though I don't believe in slapping my own but I cannot sit here and say with certainty what I would do if my child came right up in my face and told me they were going to kill me. I really don't think anyone would know how each individual person would react to that, if it were to happen to them. I am sure Vinnie was horrified, shocked and, embarrassed that his son was capable of saying something so vile, and I am sure it made him very angry too.

I did notice when I read the DPS Report I, that witness after witness stated they saw no abuse. Witness after witness talked about what a nice person Vinnie was and how he loved his son. Some did find the boy to be cocky, manipulative or arrogant and some of the kids said he bullied his younger relatives. A Mr. Aneslmo Padilla and his family where also interviewed by LE. Aneslmo said that this boy was "a spoiled child who got everything he wanted." Not one witness in the report said this boy was abused.

I don't think Romero is at fault for not taking his son seriously. I am not sure any parent who has raised their child from birth, can wrap their minds around their own young child being serious about murdering them. I think Vinnie was like most parents who thought it was an immature outburst and would blow over.

If anyone failed this child it was Eryn, his mother, imo. She was never a nurturing mother figure to him, when it was so vital to have a mother's love. Her abandonment created this boy into being removed, aloof and detached from others. He learned imo, to care about no one but himself. Vinnie Romero never abandoned this child, he fought for him and he cared about him. It just did not stick. No matter how much love this boy was given, it just didn't sink in. IMOO, long ago he had learned if a mother doesn't love you then no one will, and he shutdown his feelings for everyone. He may have manipulated them for personal gain under the false pretense he "loved" them but IMO he didnt...he couldn't because he just doesn't feel the connection or bond inside of him, IMO.

When we look at many murderers we will see they have deep seeded issues concerning their mothers. It warps their thinking.

Now of course this is just my opinion of the boy and nothing more.

And if he has no conscience then all the treatment in the world is not going to change him.

Also in the DPS Report the bus driver Ms. Haws said that the boy got off the bus around 2:30 pm. She also said that one of her co-workers was at the boy's grandmother's house after the murders and heard the boy tell his g/m that he first killed his father and then he told Tim to come inside and then killed him.

I have always said this boy has wanted people to know he did this.

imoo

[Jadedblueeyes]

The never ending trail of tears and shattered lives.:(

http://www.wmicentral.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=20283527&BRD=2264&PAG=461&dept_id=505965&rfi=6

Wife of slain man in serious accident


The wife of the man allegedly shot to death by his 8-year-old son in St. Johns was involved in a single-vehicle accident late Friday or early Saturday morning.


The woman was driving towards Witch Wells when she said she swerved to avoid "eyes" on the road and lost control of her Jeep. It is believed the "eyes" belonged to an animal on the road.
She is in a Flagstaff hospital with serious injuries. Reports indicate that most of her ribs were broken and she is paralyzed from the chest down.

[tr7fan]

That is a disturbing video clip. I know that, if I had told my parent(s) I was going to kill them, I would have needed dental work. If those statements are true, then that child had some very serious emotional/mental problems and the cause of them needs to be looked into, imho. I don't know what stage child psychology was in when I went to elementary school. I seem to remember the only professional, other than a teacher on staff, was a nurse. In any event, in my mind this child got off easy with a slap, if that was all that was done, when he told his father he would kill him. I remember when my hormones were raging and I talked back to my father. He told me that he brought me into this world and he would take me out. I had no reason not to believe him and adjusted my behavior to account for that fact. To be forewarned is to be forearmed.
yes it was actually never admitted the probablecause hearing even though the prosecutor tryed twice the whole interveiw was cooerced by a det who lied under oath as to her qualifications and was found out by the judge
and another "jail commander who in the past had failed to deliver 22 subpeonas in a court case
sorry i havent been around much but the low down is this "they have no evidence to connect him but he has plea guilty to one count of negligent homidide so he would be on probation till adluthhood and so he could be with his mom hes been on :Furolough since about the end of january and has even been on a trip out of town with his mother and reletives recently
there have been no problems or incidents. my opinon it was a hit
on the boarder who was a coworker and meth dealer and toold his street dealers someone wanted to kill him and that they did on 11/5/08 the kid is the fall guy on this one somewhere out there is/are the real murder(*s) that date about the beginning of the furlough is an estimate i need to look up the exact date.

[tr7fan]

According to my understanding, the grandfather wanted a psychologist present. ITA.

a parent the grandpa anyone but this was forbiddden by the sjpd
they avilla and neckle both told benjamin brewer in their depositions that they
had been trianed to lie in order to elicit a confession
http://www.abc15.com/content/news/northernarizona/story/Source-AZ-boy-accused-of-killing-2-released-from/cKqMn0YiDU260fjGKMLrYg.cspx
i wouldnt worry about him as a threat. i almost invited his mom and him to staty here but i had hunting rifles so that disqualifed me .
i wouldnt feel threatened having them here
the judge has let him out on furlough since the end of jan i think hes got a good view as to what his next 9 years with be with periodic tests ant 9 12 15 and 17 1/2. what the kid needs is to be with his mom and relatives and counseling for what hes seen . its just my opnion but i think there were two shoters one held cr upstairs and had him call tim they shot tim first at the end of the driveway and died on the porch i have no explanation as to why he keep going toward the shooter. there was a situation with a detention officer just before cr was released that resulted in the officer being suspended. in my opnion this man would be a good place to start an investigation even tho no one seems at all intersted. if it was me he would have been arrested cuffed and taken to an interview room for a discussion
hopefully there will be an internal investigation into this officers actions.
ive tried to figure out what a penalty would be should he be charged and the best i could figure was it could be anywhere from a high misdeamonor to a class 2-3 felony. in arizona class 1 felong is the highest class6 is the lowest and his actions border on a class 6 felony in my opnion . ya got to admire the kid for his bravery, he told his grandma who told the sheriff after she
was done with her visit . i think bottom line this was a professional hit staged to look like a burglary. most burglars dont shoot they run
sentencing wont be for about 2 months after more evlauations
apparenlty hes had no probs while on "furlough authorized by judge roca who said "the boy and his mother are off limits " apparently what he sez holds great weight as most of the static has been postes in the comment section of articles on him. please pray for him and his family

[tr7fan]

If CR did make the treats to kill his Dad, why in tarnation did the father buy his son a gun? Why were firearms and ammo left within reach??? A real head-shaker. No one took this child seriously. Why was he in the Father's custody???
cr was born when his mom was about 19 or so and then she filed for divorce about a year later. hes got a half sister in tucson from another relationship of vincent . they explined they had shared custody with vincent having physical custody. just what that means confuses me. she remaaried had a daughter and tried to visit cr as much as she could being in misssissippi
" i was told that the judge that decided custody was related to him but have no way to confirm that . vincent was a construction worker and gone alot
i dont know how long hed been working on this job.
i think it should be kept in mind that kids and even adults say off the wall stuff when theyre mad. im not saying its right just that it happens. also there is sdome credence to the saying "its the quiet ones ya gotta watch"
referring to the fact that people who shoot there mouth of release tension if they hold it in it builds the probation agreement allows them to leave the county and the state so i hope they will move somewhere only her family knows where theyre at :seeya::seeya: TR i can be contacted at tr7fan @yahoo.com have a good weekend
no it was the the smartest thing to leave guns laying around but he was the one that usually put them back in there places :D

[William Anthony]

Yes, Vincent had this gun ever since he was this boy's age and he was 29 years old when he was murdered. It shows it is the mindset of the person that makes any weapon, a weapon to be used against human beings. That was the difference in this boy and his own father. His father respected the gun and never harmed another human being with it.

This boy had told another boy he went to school with that he was going to kill his father. Iirc that was about 3 weeks before VR's death. I highly doubt he ever knew about that threat though. He made another threat and this time it was to his father in a recent hunting trip with family members shortly before his death.

I do not hold it against Vinnie for slapping the child, even though I don't believe in slapping my own but I cannot sit here and say with certainty what I would do if my child came right up in my face and told me they were going to kill me. I really don't think anyone would know how each individual person would react to that, if it were to happen to them. I am sure Vinnie was horrified, shocked and, embarrassed that his son was capable of saying something so vile, and I am sure it made him very angry too.

I did notice when I read the DPS Report I, that witness after witness stated they saw no abuse. Witness after witness talked about what a nice person Vinnie was and how he loved his son. Some did find the boy to be cocky, manipulative or arrogant and some of the kids said he bullied his younger relatives. A Mr. Aneslmo Padilla and his family where also interviewed by LE. Aneslmo said that this boy was "a spoiled child who got everything he wanted." Not one witness in the report said this boy was abused.

I don't think Romero is at fault for not taking his son seriously. I am not sure any parent who has raised their child from birth, can wrap their minds around their own young child being serious about murdering them. I think Vinnie was like most parents who thought it was an immature outburst and would blow over.

If anyone failed this child it was Eryn, his mother, imo. She was never a nurturing mother figure to him, when it was so vital to have a mother's love. Her abandonment created this boy into being removed, aloof and detached from others. He learned imo, to care about no one but himself. Vinnie Romero never abandoned this child, he fought for him and he cared about him. It just did not stick. No matter how much love this boy was given, it just didn't sink in. IMOO, long ago he had learned if a mother doesn't love you then no one will, and he shutdown his feelings for everyone. He may have manipulated them for personal gain under the false pretense he "loved" them but IMO he didnt...he couldn't because he just doesn't feel the connection or bond inside of him, IMO.

When we look at many murderers we will see they have deep seeded issues concerning their mothers. It warps their thinking.

Now of course this is just my opinion of the boy and nothing more.

And if he has no conscience then all the treatment in the world is not going to change him.

Also in the DPS Report the bus driver Ms. Haws said that the boy got off the bus around 2:30 pm. She also said that one of her co-workers was at the boy's grandmother's house after the murders and heard the boy tell his g/m that he first killed his father and then he told Tim to come inside and then killed him.

I have always said this boy has wanted people to know he did this.

imoo

I was raised during the time when spanking was not considered abuse and most adults, neighbors and teachers, had the right to spank an unruly child. I do recall my father beating a neighbor who struck me with a rake but that was not the normal. Usually, if the adult felt the need to spank you they would call your parents or take you to them and explain why, which resulted in another more severe spanking from your parents. We were taught to respect adults and, if we did that, we had a chance to explain what happened to our parents. We lost that chance, if we disrespected the adults. It was much easier to say yes sir or mam and then explain to your parents what had happened. I would never have told any adult that I would kill them and, if I had, I am sure my parents would realize, I needed help. I was often reminded by my parents when I got to big for my britches that they brought me in and would take me out. I think the system as a whole failed this child.

[William Anthony]

a parent the grandpa anyone but this was forbiddden by the sjpd
they avilla and neckle both told benjamin brewer in their depositions that they
had been trianed to lie in order to elicit a confession
http://www.abc15.com/content/news/northernarizona/story/Source-AZ-boy-accused-of-killing-2-released-from/cKqMn0YiDU260fjGKMLrYg.cspx
i wouldnt worry about him as a threat. i almost invited his mom and him to staty here but i had hunting rifles so that disqualifed me .
i wouldnt feel threatened having them here
the judge has let him out on furlough since the end of jan i think hes got a good view as to what his next 9 years with be with periodic tests ant 9 12 15 and 17 1/2. what the kid needs is to be with his mom and relatives and counseling for what hes seen . its just my opnion but i think there were two shoters one held cr upstairs and had him call tim they shot tim first at the end of the driveway and died on the porch i have no explanation as to why he keep going toward the shooter. there was a situation with a detention officer just before cr was released that resulted in the officer being suspended. in my opnion this man would be a good place to start an investigation even tho no one seems at all intersted. if it was me he would have been arrested cuffed and taken to an interview room for a discussion
hopefully there will be an internal investigation into this officers actions.
ive tried to figure out what a penalty would be should he be charged and the best i could figure was it could be anywhere from a high misdeamonor to a class 2-3 felony. in arizona class 1 felong is the highest class6 is the lowest and his actions border on a class 6 felony in my opnion . ya got to admire the kid for his bravery, he told his grandma who told the sheriff after she
was done with her visit . i think bottom line this was a professional hit staged to look like a burglary. most burglars dont shoot they run
sentencing wont be for about 2 months after more evlauations
apparenlty hes had no probs while on "furlough authorized by judge roca who said "the boy and his mother are off limits " apparently what he sez holds great weight as most of the static has been postes in the comment section of articles on him. please pray for him and his family

I think that prayers are in line for the families of all those involved as well as for the child. I cannot fathom a defense attorney allowing a child to plead guilty to negligent homicide, if he thought there was a chance that this child was innocent but I may be wrong.

[Jadedblueeyes]

a parent the grandpa anyone but this was forbidden by the sjpd
they avilla and neckle both told benjamin brewer in their depositions that they
had been trianed to lie in order to elicit a confession
http://www.abc15.com/content/news/northernarizona/story/Source-AZ-boy-accused-of-killing-2-released-from/cKqMn0YiDU260fjGKMLrYg.cspx
i wouldnt worry about him as a threat. i almost invited his mom and him to staty here but i had hunting rifles so that disqualifed me .
i wouldnt feel threatened having them here
the judge has let him out on furlough since the end of jan i think hes got a good view as to what his next 9 years with be with periodic tests ant 9 12 15 and 17 1/2. what the kid needs is to be with his mom and relatives and counseling for what hes seen . its just my opnion but i think there were two shoters one held cr upstairs and had him call tim they shot tim first at the end of the driveway and died on the porch i have no explanation as to why he keep going toward the shooter. there was a situation with a detention officer just before cr was released that resulted in the officer being suspended. in my opinion this man would be a good place to start an investigation even tho no one seems at all untested. if it was me he would have been arrested cuffed and taken to an interview room for a discussion
hopefully there will be an internal investigation into this officers actions.
ive tried to figure out what a penalty would be should he be charged and the best i could figure was it could be anywhere from a high misdeamonor to a class 2-3 felony. in arizona class 1 felong is the highest class6 is the lowest and his actions border on a class 6 felony in my opinion . ya got to admire the kid for his bravery, he told his grandma who told the sheriff after she
was done with her visit . i think bottom line this was a professional hit staged to look like a burglary. most burglars don't shoot they run
sentencing wont be for about 2 months after more evlauations
apparenlty hes had no probs while on "furlough authorized by judge roca who said "the boy and his mother are off limits " apparently what he sez holds great weight as most of the static has been postes in the comment section of articles on him. please pray for him and his family

In the court papers it mentioned that other rules were also in place concerning being out. I don't think this boy has a chance to be anything but good, whether he or his mother likes it or not. The Court even has to be notified of which family member is going to visit him and when. I think the Court is keeping close watch on him. Sounds more like a very tight conditional release to me.

I don't dismiss his threats to murder his father as mere coincidences. One was just on a recent hunting trip. No son who fears his father's wrath would ever poke the fire. A child fearful of his father had his father really been abusive wouldnt dare keep lying to his face all the time knowing it would make things worse for the child. Children who are abused seem to be very complacent and want to be seen as little as possible. They do everything they can NOT to get on the father's bad side and coming right up to his father and threatening to murder him, ain't a way to do that, whatsoever.

Imo, this boy is guilty of these murders. IMO, the time line proves it. There is no other logical, reasonable, explanation how all of this occurred in the time it did. He had no alibi for over 2 hours and imo why he didn't was because he was waiting inside his home for his dad to return from work. All the cell phone time lines shows that there was only time for HIM to kill the two men in separate events, put the gun on the cage, let Nellie out, pat her on the head and walk to the neighbor's house and 911 be already called and over with by 5:03 pm

I am sure the townsfolk of St. John will be very relieved if this boy and his mom does go elsewhere so they can have some kind of normalcy in their town again.

This boy took this sweetheart deal because he isn't stupid and he knows he did this. He got a much lesser degree for the premeditated murder of Tim Romans but the biggest prize of all for him was he did not want to risk being charged and tried with murdering his own father when he became an adult, where the punishment could be up to LWOP. No other defendant would have been given such a sweet deal but then 99.9% of murder defendants aren't 8 years old when they commit murder either. So he and his attorney used his age as an advantage and it worked, as long as he can keep his nose squeaky clean for the next 9 years because IF NOT then Judge Roca told him they are back to "square one."

He is still charged and plead guilty to a class 4 felony.

imo

[Jadedblueeyes]

I think that prayers are in line for the families of all those involved as well as for the child. I cannot fathom a defense attorney allowing a child to plead guilty to negligent homicide, if he thought there was a chance that this child was innocent but I may be wrong.

I think you are right. We have seen attorneys fight for years and years if they truly thinks the evidence shows their client is innocent. There is no way that these attorneys, who have been in this boy's corner from day one, would suddenly jump ship. Wood would have been the hero of the day and probably selected as one of the top 10 attorneys in AZ if he had the goods to prove this case. It is cases like this that defense attorneys yearn for....Many times one high publicity case can put them on top.

Even Wood admitted that the boy had talked with him about his involvement. Frankly, I think this boy has told several that he did this and how it went down.

imo

[tr7fan]

That is a disturbing video clip. I know that, if I had told my parent(s) I was going to kill them, I would have needed dental work. If those statements are true, then that child had some very serious emotional/mental problems and the cause of them needs to be looked into, imho. I don't know what stage child psychology was in when I went to elementary school. I seem to remember the only professional, other than a teacher on staff, was a nurse. In any event, in my mind this child got off easy with a slap, if that was all that was done, when he told his father he would kill him. I remember when my hormones were raging and I talked back to my father. He told me that he brought me into this world and he would take me out. I had no reason not to believe him and adjusted my behavior to account for that fact. To be forewarned is to be forearmed.
yes it was actually never admitted the probablecause hearing even though the prosecutor tryed twice the whole interveiw was cooerced by a det who lied under oath as to her qualifications and was found out by the judge
and another "jail commander who in the past had failed to deliver 22 subpeonas in a court case
sorry i havent been around much but the low down is this "they have no evidence to connect him but he has plea guilty to one count of negligent homidide so he would be on probation till adluthhood and so he could be with his mom hes been on :Furolough since about the end of january and has even been on a trip out of town with his mother and reletives recently
there have been no problems or incidents. my opinon it was a hit
on the boarder who was a coworker and meth dealer and toold his street dealers someone wanted to kill him and that they did on 11/5/08 the kid is the fall guy on this one somewhere out there is/are the real murder(*s) that date about the beginning of the furlough is an estimate i need to look up the exact date.
__________________
"the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." "imoo"

[tr7fan]

In the court papers it mentioned that other rules were also in place concerning being out. I don't think this boy has a chance to be anything but good, whether he or his mother likes it or not. The Court even has to be notified of which family member is going to visit him and when. I think the Court is keeping close watch on him. Sounds more like a very tight conditional release to me.

I don't dismiss his threats to murder his father as mere coincidences. One was just on a recent hunting trip. No son who fears his father's wrath would ever poke the fire. A child fearful of his father had his father really been abusive wouldnt dare keep lying to his face all the time knowing it would make things worse for the child. Children who are abused seem to be very complacent and want to be seen as little as possible. They do everything they can NOT to get on the father's bad side and coming right up to his father and threatening to murder him, ain't a way to do that, whatsoever.

Imo, this boy is guilty of these murders. IMO, the time line proves it. There is no other logical, reasonable, explanation how all of this occurred in the time it did. He had no alibi for over 2 hours and imo why he didn't was because he was waiting inside his home for his dad to return from work. All the cell phone time lines shows that there was only time for HIM to kill the two men in separate events, put the gun on the cage, let Nellie out, pat her on the head and walk to the neighbor's house and 911 be already called and over with by 5:03 pm

I am sure the townsfolk of St. John will be very relieved if this boy and his mom does go elsewhere so they can have some kind of normalcy in their town again.

This boy took this sweetheart deal because he isn't stupid and he knows he did this. He got a much lesser degree for the premeditated murder of Tim Romans but the biggest prize of all for him was he did not want to risk being charged and tried with murdering his own father when he became an adult, where the punishment could be up to LWOP. No other defendant would have been given such a sweet deal but then 99.9% of murder defendants aren't 8 years old when they commit murder either. So he and his attorney used his age as an advantage and it worked, as long as he can keep his nose squeaky clean for the next 9 years because IF NOT then Judge Roca told him they are back to "square one."

He is still charged and plead guilty to a class 4 felony.

imo

whateveer your entitled to your opinion id still welcome him into my home
my feelings on him and his mother remain the same
i wish they had taken it to trial I dont believe whatever so called evidence they may have would stand in the light of day. If they do have anything other than what theyve mentioned, it hasnt be filed or made public personally i hope that cr and him mom find a good lawyer who can sue the state city and county for the bs theyve pulled on them.:beer:
personally im enquring as to whether i can file complaints with AZpost the certifying authority in az for policeman and turning whitng and carlyohn into the state bar all there actions remind me of the gestapo not to mention whitings campaign promise not to prosecute innocent people carlyon pulled the same stuff in www.joelbarrsstory.com his tactics border on criminal as far as im concerned. the people of apache and navajo counties in az would be much better off without these to attornies in the positions they hold

[William Anthony]

yes it was actually never admitted the probablecause hearing even though the prosecutor tryed twice the whole interveiw was cooerced by a det who lied under oath as to her qualifications and was found out by the judge
and another "jail commander who in the past had failed to deliver 22 subpeonas in a court case
sorry i havent been around much but the low down is this "they have no evidence to connect him but he has plea guilty to one count of negligent homidide so he would be on probation till adluthhood and so he could be with his mom hes been on :Furolough since about the end of january and has even been on a trip out of town with his mother and reletives recently
there have been no problems or incidents. my opinon it was a hit
on the boarder who was a coworker and meth dealer and toold his street dealers someone wanted to kill him and that they did on 11/5/08 the kid is the fall guy on this one somewhere out there is/are the real murder(*s) that date about the beginning of the furlough is an estimate i need to look up the exact date.
__________________
"the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." "imoo"

If there is no evidence, you don't accept the plea.

[tr7fan]

In the court papers it mentioned that other rules were also in place concerning being out. I don't think this boy has a chance to be anything but good, whether he or his mother likes it or not. The Court even has to be notified of which family member is going to visit him and when. I think the Court is keeping close watch on him. Sounds more like a very tight conditional release to me.

I don't dismiss his threats to murder his father as mere coincidences. One was just on a recent hunting trip. No son who fears his father's wrath would ever poke the fire. A child fearful of his father had his father really been abusive wouldnt dare keep lying to his face all the time knowing it would make things worse for the child. Children who are abused seem to be very complacent and want to be seen as little as possible. They do everything they can NOT to get on the father's bad side and coming right up to his father and threatening to murder him, ain't a way to do that, whatsoever.

Imo, this boy is guilty of these murders. IMO, the time line proves it. There is no other logical, reasonable, explanation how all of this occurred in the time it did. He had no alibi for over 2 hours and imo why he didn't was because he was waiting inside his home for his dad to return from work. All the cell phone time lines shows that there was only time for HIM to kill the two men in separate events, put the gun on the cage, let Nellie out, pat her on the head and walk to the neighbor's house and 911 be already called and over with by 5:03 pm

I am sure the townsfolk of St. John will be very relieved if this boy and his mom does go elsewhere so they can have some kind of normalcy in their town again.

This boy took this sweetheart deal because he isn't stupid and he knows he did this. He got a much lesser degree for the premeditated murder of Tim Romans but the biggest prize of all for him was he did not want to risk being charged and tried with murdering his own father when he became an adult, where the punishment could be up to LWOP. No other defendant would have been given such a sweet deal but then 99.9% of murder defendants aren't 8 years old when they commit murder either. So he and his attorney used his age as an advantage and it worked, as long as he can keep his nose squeaky clean for the next 9 years because IF NOT then Judge Roca told him they are back to "square one."

He is still charged and plead guilty to a class 4 felony.

imo

ive been meaning to ask you about your signature its exactly the same as gentlebreeze on insession are you two related. anyway you seem to take particular almost eerie delight in getting down to each word of the plea agreement.
ive been looking for and when i find i will post. where ron wood explains why the plea agreement was taken. personally, i believe if the defense called the prosecutors hand there would be nothing tying this boy to the horrendous murders. i what theyve disclosed so far is all they got, that aint jack. you also fail to mention that tim romans told one of his low level street dealers someone wanted to kill him a week before it happened. this case is nothing more than a repeat of the michael crowe case or this professional crituque of the interview
http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/LaurieRoberts/39742
it seems you take uncanny delight in the plight and fate of this boy
by your discussion of the many conditions of his probation.
i think a lot of people are not seeing the less obvious motive the of killing tim romans who the san carlos police have described as a low level drug dealer
and the fact he conveyed to a low level street dealer someone wanted to kill him a week before this happened. the autospy revealed that he had been shot 6 times compared to 4 for vincent romero
other motives could be related to the alleged relatiohship between tiffany and nicole who cried after she saw a note tiffany wrote vince and put in his lunchbox and asked a guy to buy her a box of bullets about a month before the killings. another possible motive involves tim romans relationship to misty from mickeys bar whose x boy friend was described as "psycho". so the kid shot his mouth off when he was angry at his dad alot of adults do the same thing. if the boy was as bad as portrayed hed have done something now as long as hes been with his mom. i read somewhere that eryn had moved to saint johns because of this so who knows if they will go some where else or not. st johns is a sleepy little town to kick back in thats for sure

[SaraSidle]

cr was born when his mom was about 19 or so and then she filed for divorce about a year later. hes got a half sister in tucson from another relationship of vincent . they explined they had shared custody with vincent having physical custody. just what that means confuses me. she remaaried had a daughter and tried to visit cr as much as she could being in misssissippi
" i was told that the judge that decided custody was related to him but have no way to confirm that . vincent was a construction worker and gone alot
i dont know how long hed been working on this job.
i think it should be kept in mind that kids and even adults say off the wall stuff when theyre mad. im not saying its right just that it happens. also there is sdome credence to the saying "its the quiet ones ya gotta watch"
referring to the fact that people who shoot there mouth of release tension if they hold it in it builds the probation agreement allows them to leave the county and the state so i hope they will move somewhere only her family knows where theyre at :seeya::seeya: TR i can be contacted at tr7fan @yahoo.com have a good weekend
no it was the the smartest thing to leave guns laying around but he was the one that usually put them back in there places :D

thanks for all the info TR.........sara

[SaraSidle]

The never ending trail of tears and shattered lives.:(

http://www.wmicentral.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=20283527&BRD=2264&PAG=461&dept_id=505965&rfi=6

Wife of slain man in serious accident


The wife of the man allegedly shot to death by his 8-year-old son in St. Johns was involved in a single-vehicle accident late Friday or early Saturday morning.


The woman was driving towards Witch Wells when she said she swerved to avoid "eyes" on the road and lost control of her Jeep. It is believed the "eyes" belonged to an animal on the road.
She is in a Flagstaff hospital with serious injuries. Reports indicate that most of her ribs were broken and she is paralyzed from the chest down.

this is so bad. I feel sorry for this family........sara

[SaraSidle]

I was raised during the time when spanking was not considered abuse and most adults, neighbors and teachers, had the right to spank an unruly child. I do recall my father beating a neighbor who struck me with a rake but that was not the normal. Usually, if the adult felt the need to spank you they would call your parents or take you to them and explain why, which resulted in another more severe spanking from your parents. We were taught to respect adults and, if we did that, we had a chance to explain what happened to our parents. We lost that chance, if we disrespected the adults. It was much easier to say yes sir or mam and then explain to your parents what had happened. I would never have told any adult that I would kill them and, if I had, I am sure my parents would realize, I needed help. I was often reminded by my parents when I got to big for my britches that they brought me in and would take me out. I think the system as a whole failed this child.

I remember that so well William and I do not think it even helped me a bit. Might have made me worse. I became more rebellious the old I became. sara

[SaraSidle]

ive been meaning to ask you about your signature its exactly the same as gentlebreeze on insession are you two related. anyway you seem to take particular almost eerie delight in getting down to each word of the plea agreement.
ive been looking for and when i find i will post. where ron wood explains why the plea agreement was taken. personally, i believe if the defense called the prosecutors hand there would be nothing tying this boy to the horrendous murders. i what theyve disclosed so far is all they got, that aint jack. you also fail to mention that tim romans told one of his low level street dealers someone wanted to kill him a week before it happened. this case is nothing more than a repeat of the michael crowe case or this professional crituque of the interview
http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/LaurieRoberts/39742
it seems you take uncanny delight in the plight and fate of this boy
by your discussion of the many conditions of his probation.
i think a lot of people are not seeing the less obvious motive the of killing tim romans who the san carlos police have described as a low level drug dealer
and the fact he conveyed to a low level street dealer someone wanted to kill him a week before this happened. the autospy revealed that he had been shot 6 times compared to 4 for vincent romero
other motives could be related to the alleged relatiohship between tiffany and nicole who cried after she saw a note tiffany wrote vince and put in his lunchbox and asked a guy to buy her a box of bullets about a month before the killings. another possible motive involves tim romans relationship to misty from mickeys bar whose x boy friend was described as "psycho". so the kid shot his mouth off when he was angry at his dad alot of adults do the same thing. if the boy was as bad as portrayed hed have done something now as long as hes been with his mom. i read somewhere that eryn had moved to saint johns because of this so who knows if they will go some where else or not. st johns is a sleepy little town to kick back in thats for sure

TR you have to just respect Jadedblueeyes for her posts. She is very talented and experienced. It really does not matter where any of us post.
I post at 4 sites. some same name and some not due to being bashed. IMO sara

[Jadedblueeyes]

ive been meaning to ask you about your signature its exactly the same as gentlebreeze on insession are you two related. anyway you seem to take particular almost eerie delight in getting down to each word of the plea agreement.
ive been looking for and when i find i will post. where ron wood explains why the plea agreement was taken. personally, i believe if the defense called the prosecutors hand there would be nothing tying this boy to the horrendous murders. i what theyve disclosed so far is all they got, that aint jack. you also fail to mention that tim romans told one of his low level street dealers someone wanted to kill him a week before it happened. this case is nothing more than a repeat of the michael crowe case or this professional crituque of the interview
http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/LaurieRoberts/39742
it seems you take uncanny delight in the plight and fate of this boy
by your discussion of the many conditions of his probation.
i think a lot of people are not seeing the less obvious motive the of killing tim romans who the san carlos police have described as a low level drug dealer
and the fact he conveyed to a low level street dealer someone wanted to kill him a week before this happened. the autospy revealed that he had been shot 6 times compared to 4 for vincent romero
other motives could be related to the alleged relationship between tiffany and nicole who cried after she saw a note tiffany wrote vince and put in his lunchbox and asked a guy to buy her a box of bullets about a month before the killings. another possible motive involves tim romans relationship to misty from mickeys bar whose x boy friend was described as "psycho". so the kid shot his mouth off when he was angry at his dad alot of adults do the same thing. if the boy was as bad as portrayed hed have done something now as long as hes been with his mom. i read somewhere that eryn had moved to saint johns because of this so who knows if they will go some where else or not. st johns is a sleepy little town to kick back in thats for sure

Yes, I am GentleBreeze on IS, tr7fan;9175485. I am also known as Oceanblueeyes on other sites. I never try to hide my identity so that is why I always use the same signature line wherever that may be.

I don't take any delight when murder victims lose their lives, so I am not sure what you are referring to about the "plea deal" because I have always felt once the bulk of the evidence came back in, the boy and his attorney would accept a plea deal and be very thankful that it was offered. So I haven't changed my position on that. Even though this was a new plea deal offered by Whiting..... months before Woods said he was going to wait and see what evidence they had against the boy before considering the plea. So he did wait and when it was revealed to them, they dealt.

We know that what has been revealed is not all they have. The corresponding page numbers do not add up to being the full investigation, only a small part of it. It is often the case when plea deal negotiations are on going, that prejudicial results are withheld because once the plea deal is finalized all the investigative records are sealed.

I don't think anyone has been hoodwinked in this case. Not the DA, not the Judge, investigators, forensic labs, defense attorneys or DPS state agency and certainly not this boy. Imo he is thanking his lucky stars that he was too young for juvenile detention, with the youngest one there being two years older than him and the others much older, and he sure was too young for adult containment. So age was his biggest benefactor.

I just do not believe that a low level drug dealer would have someone come all the way from San Carlos to shoot Tim Romans. Tim would have headed back to San Carlos because he only worked Monday thru Wednesday at the plant. No one in the drug business leaves $800 dollars behind when it would only take seconds to lift them from Vinnie and Tim's pockets. And I have never heard of a person involved in drugs using a pea shooter .22. They are more apt to carry large caliber weapons that are untraceable.

There is no time for the mean bad druggie to do this and then for the boy to stroll up the street (sight unseen) casually and then do all he said transpired after then. Tim told Tanya that Vinnie had just walked in the door and that was at 4:52 pm, within three minutes the boy was calling Tim to come inside. Tim never made it and the shots were frontal shots with the gunfire coming from the home, except for the close up shot which was fired at an angle into the top of Tim's head as he was down on the porch and already wounded. It just does not compute nor is it reasonable to believe that someone else was there when three minutes after Vinnie went inside the boy called out to Tim. Three minutes.

AND the boy said that TIM was already down when he first saw him, even though for some reason he yelled out for Tim when he was three houses away and these homes don't even sit right up close to each other.:shrug: So if Tim was on the porch dead then the boy would see nothing but the truck sitting there from three houses away, yet he is yelling to Tim?:shrug: Nope, doesn't make a lick of sense imo, just like he said he stayed by his dad's side for 30 minutes yet the neighbor saw him out in the yard with Nellie already, within 2 minutes after the witness heard the gunshots. So he is playing with Nellie while his dad's blood is pooling all around his head inside his home on the stairway and poor Tim is bleeding out too on the front porch? And then he WALKS off toward the neighbor boy's house?:shrug:

I don't know about getting any box of bullets but I don't find that odd. It was hunting season and maybe the guy was going. No one has to sign anything when they buy bullets or shells. I have bought plenty before for my husband who is an avid hunter or if a friend of ours was going to buy his for the season then I have asked them to pick him up a box.

Again, I don't find it odd that Tim was shot 6 times. Vinnie was in more of a confined space in the stairwell, Tim was outside in the open and the shots were fired from a further distance. I think he shot them both as many times as he did until they each stopped quivering and shaking.

I am very saddened about the results of this case. When any murder victim is denied true justice, it is a sad day for our country imo, that was built on Justice for ALL. The judicial system also victimized Vinnie Romero and Tim who only got a poor semblance of justice. This case will always stick with me and I am haunted that true justice never really came for either of these men, who were heinously murdered when they came home from a long day's work.

But I do know that this had to be one of the most difficult cases that all the legal parties have had to encounter in their careers and they had a boy that started murdering people at age 8 and they really had no place that he would fit in detainment.

So, even though I grieve for the true victims, and know they deserved to live their lives as much as this boy does, I can only hope now that the psychiatrists can peel away the onion skin and find out why this boy is capable of such horrific acts and I pray they can successfully treat him, to better himself and to protect society as well.

My prayers will constantly be for the family members who's lives have been shattered forever. I pray that Tiffany improves and God will bless her. I believe HE will and she will grow stronger. :rose:

Although I do feel Tiffany was already shattered months ago way before her body was when the Jeep rolled over.

This case is nothing like Michael Crowe, imo. This boy was interviewed for only one hour not over the course of two grueling days.



imo

[William Anthony]

I remember that so well William and I do not think it even helped me a bit. Might have made me worse. I became more rebellious the old I became. sara

Once I was an adult, I resented unbridled authority and bullies. I don't know if you would call that rebellious. I resented those who lofted their power needlessly over others. However, I respected my elders and others and realized the importance of everyone's life. I respected the fact that we each have a role to play and there are rules as to how to perform the role. I respected that my parents were doing all they could to provide for me financially and to provide me with the skills to succeed in life. I respected them for it and for them to demand my respect or teach me respect was a small price to pay.

[Jadedblueeyes]

Once I was an adult, I resented unbridled authority and bullies. I don't know if you would call that rebellious. I resented those who lofted their power needlessly over others. However, I respected my elders and others and realized the importance of everyone's life. I respected the fact that we each have a role to play and there are rules as to how to perform the role. I respected that my parents were doing all they could to provide for me financially and to provide me with the skills to succeed in life. I respected them for it and for them to demand my respect or teach me respect was a small price to pay.

I am from the South and most parents use to spank their children. Parents even today do this as a final reprimand if other types of discipline is not getting the child's attention.

The thing that is strange and quite comical at times is to hear children who are all grown up now and how they love sitting around telling stories of when they got their butts whipped for smoking, lying or starting a fire in the barn, etc.. They have a twinkle in their eyes and most say they know they deserved everyone of those spankings and then some.

There seems to be no resentment at all about being spanked but memories that brings a chuckle about all the antics they pulled when they were children growing up and got caught big time. lol

imo

[Its just me]

I have 2 sisters and had 4 brothers. One is deceased. We were spanked and also got a peach tree switch when needed. I spanked my two sons and gave them some of the peach tree switch also. My oldest son has 3 kids and they get spanked. They are great kids who love their Mom and Dad very much. I'm honored to have been raised by parents who loved me enough to discipline us and my kids told me basically the same thing. My grandkids love their parents and have the utmost respect for them. Not only did I and my sons get spanked at home but we would get a good one at school if we needed it and so did the rest of the kids at school. LOL it’s been known for a kid to get a spanking at home because they got a spanking at school.

No discipline is a major part of what is wrong with things today. I have zero tolerance of parents who are raising children and allow them to think anything is ok. Most parents who are concerned with how they raise their children have the least of problems no matter what form of discipline they choose. The discipline needs to be enough to correct a problem and I believe a spanking will fail the least. It's where the parent or parents are more concerned with their own personal lives to take the time that is necessary to raise children… to correct and guide the child with lots of love that is the problem today.

I don't know enough to know how CR was raised but something somewhere failed if this 8 year old murdered two grown men.

fep

[William Anthony]

I am from the South and most parents use to spank their children. Parents even today do this as a final reprimand if other types of discipline is not getting the child's attention.

The thing that is strange and quite comical at times is to hear children who are all grown up now and how they love sitting around telling stories of when they got their butts whipped for smoking, lying or starting a fire in the barn, etc.. They have a twinkle in their eyes and most say they know they deserved everyone of those spankings and then some.

There seems to be no resentment at all about being spanked but memories that brings a chuckle about all the antics they pulled when they were children growing up and got caught big time. lol

imo

Yes, that is what I mean. I told one story where I got an undeserved spanking, meaning the reason my father spanked me was not my fault. He could not believe that a teacher had made some untoward remarks about my mother and I made some in return about the teacher's mother. I was sixteen at the time. He broke his belt on the basement rafters trying to make me cry. I resented him for this for a long time but in the months following I realized that, if I had not lied to him so often in the past, he would have believed me, which was proven on a job. After cursing me out in front of coworkers, because he believed the foremen who said I wasn't working, he found out the next day when one of them denied saying it that they were lying and apologized to me. Tears come to my eyes now but I can assure you I would take the spanking and the cursing just to hear his voice again. He loved me far more than I loved him and I loved him tremendously.

[tr7fan]

In the court papers it mentioned that other rules were also in place concerning being out. I don't think this boy has a chance to be anything but good, whether he or his mother likes it or not. The Court even has to be notified of which family member is going to visit him and when. I think the Court is keeping close watch on him. Sounds more like a very tight conditional release to me.

I don't dismiss his threats to murder his father as mere coincidences. One was just on a recent hunting trip. No son who fears his father's wrath would ever poke the fire. A child fearful of his father had his father really been abusive wouldnt dare keep lying to his face all the time knowing it would make things worse for the child. Children who are abused seem to be very complacent and want to be seen as little as possible. They do everything they can NOT to get on the father's bad side and coming right up to his father and threatening to murder him, ain't a way to do that, whatsoever.

Imo, this boy is guilty of these murders. IMO, the time line proves it. There is no other logical, reasonable, explanation how all of this occurred in the time it did. He had no alibi for over 2 hours and imo why he didn't was because he was waiting inside his home for his dad to return from work. All the cell phone time lines shows that there was only time for HIM to kill the two men in separate events, put the gun on the cage, let Nellie out, pat her on the head and walk to the neighbor's house and 911 be already called and over with by 5:03 pm

I am sure the townsfolk of St. John will be very relieved if this boy and his mom does go elsewhere so they can have some kind of normalcy in their town again.

This boy took this sweetheart deal because he isn't stupid and he knows he did this. He got a much lesser degree for the premeditated murder of Tim Romans but the biggest prize of all for him was he did not want to risk being charged and tried with murdering his own father when he became an adult, where the punishment could be up to LWOP. No other defendant would have been given such a sweet deal but then 99.9% of murder defendants aren't 8 years old when they commit murder either. So he and his attorney used his age as an advantage and it worked, as long as he can keep his nose squeaky clean for the next 9 years because IF NOT then Judge Roca told him they are back to "square one."

He is still charged and plead guilty to a class 4 felony.

imo

well GENTLEBREEZE your right your entitled to your opinion whether it is shared by anyone else is the question. i really thought as busy as you are on
in sessions you would be the last person id expect to show up here, was surprised to find your here. but your signature made it pretty easy and my response is the same as always has been. the case is over and i think the kid will skate right back to mississippi with his mom when its all said and done. so since hes a good kid already im sure he wont be getting into any trouble.

heres the reason he got a plea deal from the start

http://www.azfamily.com/video/geaz-index.html?nvid=308717

carlyon wasnt sure he could win the case and when a slime bag like that feels that way you know its bad any way who knows what will happen in the future. ive read your thoughts and dont agree with them at all so im not gonna waste a lotta words here. it seems to me that your dissappointed they didnt fry the kid you got your idea of a timeline and i got my idea of one and never the twain shall meet as they say.
he ll go back to mississippi with his mom and get on with his life who knows something may turn up that he finds will reopen the case and prove his innocense for sure. i really think its sad when anyone much less an adult gets enjoymehnt out of watching anyone especially a child like him go thru what he has. the whole investigation was a joke. by 11 am the next day they quit investigating. then the chief leaves i guess thats just a coincidence.
it like i said on in session I ll spend my time filing complaints against the attys and officers involved not to mention the judge.the whole thing makes me wanna puke, that anyone would set up a kid like him for someone elses actions. im sure you could debate this for hours and hours but ive already heard most of it already thats why i came here is to find some semblance of a intelligent adult to discuss this with . with a little bit of luck he ll get this expunged from his record when hes 18. your argument of it is what iit is is true. its a cooerced confession that was thrown out by mutual l agreement of the county atty and the defense. i wish hed a tried to get it admitted so an investigation could have been started into the two officers who screwed him around
http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/LaurieRoberts/39742

i think a good case could be made for suspending or firing them which i ll devote my life to till its accomplished. since your always on in session 12-13 hours a day you know all my arguments so i dont have to repeat them and will incorporate them by reference here.
i know about 40 people that think hes innocent not to mention the rest of the people outside in society
http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/LaurieRoberts/39742
im sure youll find some other case to enjoy soon. iirc way back in the beginning you thought he was innocent or did i read that wrong this was way back when it first started. i may have you confused with someone else.
anyway its the judge that makes the decision and as you can see hes been free as a bird since january . the deal is custom wrote for him to go back to mississippi. ive come to the conclusion the judge has great latitude in the juvenile court as judge roca has been availing himself of since he was out on furlough since the end of january .
i really dont think the judge who is actually trained in the real law would have done that if he thought the boy was a danger to anyone. the frustration is people want blood and the kid aint the one to blame and there further po ed that hes out on furlough. letting there minds run away with them about "what he might do " when all hes been doing is hanging out with his mom. in this case i would pray the judge sentences him to time served
'as was the case of a man who shot his wifes boyfriend in that case hed done 47 days. i guess the fact the he was threatened by a corrections officer who was subsequently detained would not make you have an idea that he knows more than he will say and is still scared beyond belief and has nightmares that the bad people are coming to get him wouldnt trigger your curiosity at all/. if ya need verification just call the detention center im sure there gonna be real forthcoming that the kid isnt even safe in detention.
the reason he pled to the plea agreement is because he wanted to be with his mother is what he told her. i think the kid is still pretty brave having the courage to tell his grandma when she visited who subsequently told whatever official is in charge at the detenetion center.
i dont think anyone is gonna see much blood in this one apparently the judge has more sense than a majority of the public and im sure he ll do the right thing . really it kinda makes me sick to see an adult your age verbally insulting and beating up a child like him. how do you do that 12-13 hours a day and still find time for other forums man thats a job in itself .
have a great april fools !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jadedblueeyes]

tr7fan,

As you say everyone is entitled to their own opinions and mine certainly doesn't agree with yours wherever you may post. What I do and what sites I post on are really none of your business. I have been a member here for a long time.

Your link does not support your spin that the DA was afraid he would lose. NO WHERE in that video was that said or inferred. Twisting what was said does not change what was actually said. Maybe it would behoove you to go back and listen to the newscaster again. And on the entire video the DA did not appear on it.

Your assertions don't hold water. You try to say they had no evidence and thought they would lose yet without evidence (according to you) the boy plead to homicide. That is totally opposing. Oh yeah, imo, they did have the evidence and that is why Roca accepted the plea from the kid.

It isn't that they didn't have the evidence. They did, but what they had to contend with for the very first time in all of their professional careers, was a kid who began murdering people at the age of 8. The DA knew that his age may thwart any justice for these men's death and justice was denied for Vinnie Romero because of the defendant's age. A first in AZ and probably the youngest defendant ever accused of double homicides across America. This boy's ace in the hole was he started killing so young that he did not fit into the juvenile justice system.

So the DA knew he could not gamble knowing that Roca could rule the boy age incompetent, where not even one of the victims would get any semblance of justice. So the DA settled for an admission of GUILT, knowing the people in St John would know he had admitted to killing Tim Romans and he had killed his own father just minutes before.

The DA certainly didn't lose. The defense was the one who said they were fearful of how Roca would rule on the motion to dismiss count one and also his own attorney worried that if Roca decided to reassess him in 240 days he would be found competent to stand trial. Wood admitted by that length of time the boy could learn the ends and out of a court proceeding.

So they both had major issues to worry about that could have changed this case's direction in a heartbeat, according to how JR ruled on each motion. NEITHER side want to risk or gamble. The stakes were too high and an admission of Guilt speaks volumes. It is a legal recorded record that this boy killed a man simply because he happened to be there. People tend to not forget those who have taken the lives of others in such brutal and heinous ways. This will follow this boy the rest of his days. He made his bed now he will have to lay in it.

I don't prioritize premeditated murderers by age. Their age at the time they kill are of no consequences to me. It is irrelevant. I will admit I do not like those who are takers of life and who think they are Judge, Jury and Executioner over other human beings, who had just as much right to live as they do. I don't care if they are 8 or 88.

I have no idea where you come up with some of you goofball claims.:rolleyes: I am not on IS, 12 or 13 hours a day. I come in periodically off and on throughout the day. Or was that little comment supposed to be some kind of little barb? ;)

What you believe or do is up to you. I don't own anyone's opinion but my own and I certainly stand by my entitled opinion.:patriot:

What happens to the boy will not change my life in anyway. I just hope wherever he goes with mommy or not, he is given extensive therapy, so they can uncover how he was capable of such cold, unfeeling, violent acts and he is deemed treatable so that society can be protected when he is dumped back into society when his probation is up when he turns 18.

imo

[Its just me]

http://images.zwire.com/local/Z/ZWIRE2264/css/wmicentral5.jpg (http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?brd=2264)04/07/2009Attorneys still seek schooling for 9-year-old St. Johns boy By: Sean Dieterich , The Independent
ST. JOHNS - Schooling is still an ongoing issue for the 9-year-old St. Johns boy who pled guilty to one count of negligent homicide, as defense attorneys look for a way for the boy to continue his education.
Schooling was the main topic discussed at Thursday's status conference. Defense attorney Benjamin Brewer asked the court to move forward and set a deadline for a school district to say "yes" or "no" to enrolling the juvenile. That way, if a district will not take him, they can look into alternative methods, such as tutoring.
"I think he is entitled to an education," he said. "He's lost three months of education already. That can't be healthy."
The juvenile was a third grader at the Coronado Elementary School when he was arrested Nov. 5 in the shooting deaths of his father and 39-year-old Timothy Romans.
In February he entered into a plea deal, pleading guilty to negligent homicide in Romans' death and having the murder charge in connection with his father's death dropped. He has been on release pending disposition, the juvenile equivalent of sentencing.
Judge Michael Roca reminded the court of one of the conditions of the juvenile's plea agreement, that he is not to be enrolled in any public, private or charter school until he is determined to not pose a threat to himself or others by an evaluating psychiatrist.
Doctors John Scialli and Shelley Uram of Phoenix have been tapped to evaluate the boy, which Brewer said should begin within the next week or two.
The court ruled Thursday that an unredacted copy of Dr. Daniel Cady's evaluation of the juvenile be given to Scialli and Uram for their evaluations. The order prohibits any secondary dissemination.
Apache County Attorney Michael Whiting said he would prefer the evaluations are completed before trying to find schooling for the juvenile, so as not to throw a wrench into the doctors' examination.
Attorneys in court also noted that the boy and his mother, Eryn Bloomfield, had changed residences multiple times, making talks with the correct school district difficult.
Attorney Steven Williams, appearing telephonically for Bloomfield, said the mother has not been able to work since her son has been on house arrest. He said the juvenile and the mother have had to rely on friends and relatives opening their homes to them.
Williams said at one time Bloomfield and her son had been staying with someone who had a criminal record, unbeknownst to Bloomfield. He said when the juvenile probation department brought the issue up, the two moved.
"She's not trying to get up and move from place to place," he said. "She's trying to make it work."
Guardian ad Litem Albert Lassen said he agreed the mother and child needed to be in a "stable place" when working out education needs. He said the two were in the process of moving in with the juvenile's grandmother, Liz Castillo, in St. Johns.
"We all want (the juvenile) to have education," he said. "Everyone's doing what they can do."
Castillo told the court she was happy to help the boy and his mother out in any way she could. Roca said he appreciated her help, but he was not going to force her to take the lead on schooling.
Roca told the juvenile probation department to begin anew talks with the St. Johns School District and told Whiting to get with the district's counsel and identify available services. Whiting said the state did not object to the court's decision, but he asked how hard they should work, considering there is a month of school left. Roca answered, "I'm asking you to take a non-confrontational approach and make an inquiry."
Roca then scheduled another status conference for April 9 to discuss the progress of securing educational services for the juvenile. He said it would be a telephonic conference. "All I want to know in a week is what St. Johns' position is," he said. After the hearing, Brewer said the April 9 hearing will give them an idea on what to do next.
"(Roca) wants a statement from the school as to their position," he said. "So we'll see if we have to go to war or if there are some agreements there. (The juvenile) wants to be around kids. He's getting that opportunity, but not in a school environment."
Brewer added, "He is slowly being able to get back to being a boy."
Also at the hearing, Brewer requested some funds be made available to Bloomfield and her son so they can afford the trip to Phoenix for the predisposition evaluations.
Williams said he agreed, as Bloomfield "doesn't have funds to pay for anything."
Whiting said the mother and the boy's stay could cost upwards of $1,000, for gas, food and a hotel stay. At any rate, he said the County Attorney's Office would provide the funding so the boy can be evaluated.
Aside from the April 9 conference, an additional status conference was set for Thursday, April 30, at 1:30 p.m. A date for disposition could be set at that hearing.


*Reach the reporter at seand@wmicentral.com (seand@wmicentral.com)
http://www.wmicentral.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=20293455&BRD=2264&PAG=461&dept_id=505965&rfi=6

[Its just me]

http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/docs/Cases/JV2008065/MOTION%20FOR%20COPIES.pdf

2/27/09 Guardian ad Litem Albert Blassen request copies of court records for the purpose of investigation and consideration of the plea agreement entered into.

[Its just me]

I have been too busy to keep up with what's happened in CR's case. This is old news but new to me and I don't think it's been posted.
I firmly do not believe CR is/was able to understand anything that went on in the courtroom. I don't know what is best in this case but I pray someone does. If the guardian decides to challenge the plea this may be far from being out of the court room. fep

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/2009/02/24/20090224roberts0225.html

Competency at core of boy's guilty plea

by Laurie Roberts - Feb. 25, 2009 12:00 AM
The Arizona Republic
The case made national headlines. It is not every day, after all, that an 8-year-old boy comes home from school and lies in wait to ambush his father and a second man. Not every day that a third-grader loads a single-shot bolt-action rifle 10 times in order to pump 10 bullets into two men - one of them his dad.
We know that's what happened, right?
The police got their confession, and on Thursday Christian Romero pleaded guilty.
But the confession was bogus, and both medical experts who examined the boy evidently concluded that he's not competent to stand trial. So how can a kid who isn't competent to stand trial be competent to plead guilty to negligent homicide?
And while I'm posing questions, how can a judge hold meetings to negotiate a plea and exclude not only the child's mother but also the guardian appointed by the court to look out for the boy's best interests?
Attorney Albert Lassen, who is Christian's guardian ad litem, told me he may ask that the plea be thrown out, given reports that both psychologists found the boy incompetent.
"You're either competent or you're incompetent, and if you're not competent, you can't enter a plea," he said. "I think the dodge is that the judge and the defense attorney and the prosecutor think that because they never got around to actually holding a competency hearing, as required under the rules, that therefore they can practice and maintain the ruse that the child's not incompetent."
In other words, the kid's not incompetent until the judge declares that he's incompetent. Yeah, that makes sense.
Lassen didn't attend last week's change-of-plea hearing in St. Johns but he saw enough of the exchange on TV to be troubled.
"I saw the judge ask the boy a pointed question that called for a pointed answer and the boy answered some other question and the judge said, 'Ah, OK.' Then he went on to the next question," Lassen said. "I mean, if you reviewed the transcript of this proceeding, the boy demonstrated even in the proceeding that he didn't understand what was going on, probably besides saying 'yes sir' or 'no sir' when his lawyer nudged him."
Apache County Superior Court Pro Tem Judge Michael Roca ruled that the issue of Christian's competency "does not preclude the court from entertaining a plea." He found that the boy, who turned 9 on Dec. 29, 'knowingly, intelligently and voluntarily" pleaded guilty.
Lassen believes that he may have the standing as the boy's guardian to ask the plea be thrown out. He won't do it, however, until he evaluates whether voiding the plea is in the boy's best interest. Under the deal, Christian would be on probation until he's 18 and get psychiatric help.
If the plea is thrown out, the county could launch an all-out, six-month effort to make him competent - meaning that he understands the charges and can assist in his own defense. Or prosecutors could wait until he is 15 and attempt to try him as an adult. The evidence, given the poor police work, is not exactly what you would call ironclad. Still, it's a risk.
That's why Christian insisted on pleading guilty to negligent homicide, according to his attorney, Ron Wood. Wood told me he believes the boy understood enough to enter the plea and was adamant that this was what he wanted to do. Wood said that he is ethically bound to follow his client's wishes.
"Based on my conversations with him, I believe he understood what he admitted to, what the consequences were and what rights he was giving up," Wood said. "As I told the judge, I believe he is as competent as any other 9-year-old little boy."
Which is maybe the point.
A 9-year-old can't possibly understand the ramifications of what he's doing and many question whether Christian - a kid with no criminal or disciplinary record - could by himself have concocted a plan to ambush his father and Tim Romans as they arrived home from work.
Dominique Roe-Sepowitz, an assistant professor at Arizona State University's School of Social Work, recently completed a study of adolescent killers due to be published later this year. She said none of the factors that she sees in young male killers is present, as far as we know, with Christian. "We rarely see homicide that young," she said. "If we do see homicide that young, oftentimes it has other contributing factors, pretty serious abuse or neglect or there was someone that encouraged them."
Whether that happened here, we may never know because there will be no trial, no pursuit of truth. Just a quick end to an inconvenient case that's brought nothing but bad press to a little town that's apparently ready to move on - everyone, that is, except the boy's mother and the man appointed to look out for his best interests.
Of course, the judge could read the medical reports and change his mind about the whether this 9-year-old kid really understood what he was doing when he pleaded guilty to killing someone.
If he did, it would be the first thing in this crazy case that made sense.

[William Anthony]

I think we again need Solomon. Is it in the child's best interest to accept a plea and allow him to receive the treatment he needs or to decline the plea and allow the child to possibly be tried at some later date, depending on a subsequent competency evaluation, which said trial may reopen wounds that had started to heal? If the deal is ruled legally improper, would that allow the prosecution to try the child for double murder?

[Its just me]

I don't know what is best but sometimes it's best for all involved to leave well enough alone. I will be surprised if the plea is actually challenged but I do think it is questionable if the child was competent. I personally don't think any 8/9 year would be competent. fep

[Seashell]

I don't know what is best but sometimes it's best for all involved to leave well enough alone. I will be surprised if the plea is actually challenged but I do think it is questionable if the child was competent. I personally don't think any 8/9 year would be competent. fep

ITA and you have good reasoning thanks for updates, i havent been here as much as i would have been due to my work.
I should pop in and re check once in a while i really pray this child will be defended properly... :rose:

[Jadedblueeyes]

I think we again need Solomon. Is it in the child's best interest to accept a plea and allow him to receive the treatment he needs or to decline the plea and allow the child to possibly be tried at some later date, depending on a subsequent competency evaluation, which said trial may reopen wounds that had started to heal? If the deal is ruled legally improper, would that allow the prosecution to try the child for double murder?

The glaring difference to me is a long drawn out trial proceedings takes much more in depth competence to understand it all from beginning to end.

However with a plea, imo, is more about did he know right from wrong and is willing to plea his wrongful act down? Children by the age of 8 or 9 certainly know right from wrong and whether they are guilty of something or not, even if they never admit it, admit it partially or spill the beans and take full accountability.

While age incompetency was an issue only if the case went to trial it was never about his mental incapacity/ incompetency. I doubt any of the experts will say he does not know what he did was wrong.

This is the best deal I can ever remember a defendant getting so to protest the plea would once again jeopardize Wood's client greatly and no one knows that better than Woods, imo. He was very worried about the Judge dismissing count one where this kid could be tried as an adult later on. That shows me he knows the evidence is there to bring him to trial where a stiff punishment could be handed down when this kid is no longer a baby faced 9 year old.

From the very beginning of this case I thought the age of this defendant would define whether true justice would ever come for the victims or be denied. This kid's age was his ace in the hole. He was way too young even for juvenile detention. He had to be held in a lone holding cell. He did not fit in with the others that were older, and they didn't fit in with him because his crimes were much more egregious. It was a conundrum from the get go. Because of his age when he killed he was anomaly and I find some comfort in that and hope we never hear about another 8 or 9 year olds committing double homicide again.

I am beginning to believe the school system there in St. John really doesn't want him back in their schools. Maybe the Judge will decide that he and Eryn can move to another state but wherever he goes he is going to be faced with this problem. Even other states and schools are made aware of things this heinous. It is hard to make this go away and imo, he will have this excess baggage to tote the rest of his life.

imo

[William Anthony]

The glaring difference to me is a long drawn out trial proceedings takes much more in depth competence to understand it all from beginning to end.

However with a plea, imo, is more about did he know right from wrong and is willing to plea his wrongful act down? Children by the age of 8 or 9 certainly know right from wrong and whether they are guilty of something or not, even if they never admit it, admit it partially or spill the beans and take full accountability.

While age incompetency was an issue only if the case went to trial it was never about his mental incapacity/ incompetency. I doubt any of the experts will say he does not know what he did was wrong.

This is the best deal I can ever remember a defendant getting so to protest the plea would once again jeopardize Wood's client greatly and no one knows that better than Woods, imo. He was very worried about the Judge dismissing count one where this kid could be tried as an adult later on. That shows me he knows the evidence is there to bring him to trial where a stiff punishment could be handed down when this kid is no longer a baby faced 9 year old.

From the very beginning of this case I thought the age of this defendant would define whether true justice would ever come for the victims or be denied. This kid's age was his ace in the hole. He was way too young even for juvenile detention. He had to be held in a lone holding cell. He did not fit in with the others that were older, and they didn't fit in with him because his crimes were much more egregious. It was a conundrum from the get go. Because of his age when he killed he was anomaly and I find some comfort in that and hope we never hear about another 8 or 9 year olds committing double homicide again.

I am beginning to believe the school system there in St. John really doesn't want him back in their schools. Maybe the Judge will decide that he and Eryn can move to another state but wherever he goes he is going to be faced with this problem. Even other states and schools are made aware of things this heinous. It is hard to make this go away and imo, he will have this excess baggage to tote the rest of his life.

imo

I think that you are correct.

[FDInLaw]

Press Release:

http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/docs/Cases/Press%20Releases/JV2008065%20PRESS%20RELEASE%20May%2021,%202009.pdf

[Jadedblueeyes]

New documents up.

http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/docs/default.aspx

Which includes a motion to terminate furlough for the boy.

His mother has seriously violated the court ordered guidelines again. She is back with the convicted felon and letting the boy sleep over there at night.
She has violated the order to make sure he is schooled at the detention center.
She has taken him over state lines to NM without permission.

And the boy ran into a baseball dugout and it caused stress among the citizens there. It seem the townsfolk do not want this kid around their children.

I will try to find some media links on this new news.

A hearing date has been set.

This woman is a piece of work and she is the one that is going to see this kid keeps his nose squeaky clean for years to come? Imo, it ain't going to happen.

Oh and it seems that grandma Liz wants to get her a gun even though she knows that the boy cant be in a home where guns are.:eek:

imo

[Its just me]

As of right now these are only charges brought by the DA. There will be a hearing to determine what is and what is not true. To say anything is true at this point is putting forth an untruth.

I'm sure the mother is like the rest of the world and has many faults but in following this case closely I see her being less of "a piece of work" than some who self righteously pass premature judgment on someone they know so little about. To prove my point I can provide the link to another site. As a member here I prefer the mods keep that kind of posting from being here a CL.
To my understanding the grandmother went to the Police to “ask” about getting a gun. She started at a proper information source. I commend her because she could have kept her mouth shut and secretly purchased a gun.

snip:
Whiting said the boy's grandmother, Liz Castillo, also has asked police about buying a gun, but he was unsure of the purpose.

Only time will tell if any of the accusations filed as part of the motion to terminate furlough for the boy are true. If they are I pray the Judge will keep what is best for the child as his sole interest.

Associated Press article that includes the information about the grandmother asking the police about buying a gun.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_CHILD_CHARGED?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=US

[Jadedblueeyes]

I have always felt that CA Whiting is a genteel man. IMO, he would never file these motions if he did not have serious concerns. I think the State is catching a lot of heat from the citizens in that town for this boy being out and about to go where he pleases. In fact it would not surprise me if private citizens are keeping up with the whereabouts of this kid at all times. It also would not surprise me in the least that some of the Romero family does not agree that he should be on probation. Since it was said that this kid bullied his younger relatives those children and the parents of those children may fear this kid being around them.

I think it would be no different than any town that had to go about their daily lives knowing a person who killed someone brutally walks their streets as if they don't have a care in the world.

[Its just me]

I have always felt that CA Whiting is a genteel man. IMO, he would never file these motions if he did not have serious concerns. I think the State is catching a lot of heat from the citizens in that town for this boy being out and about to go where he pleases. In fact it would not surprise me if private citizens are keeping up with the whereabouts of this kid at all times. It also would not surprise me in the least that some of the Romero family does not agree that he should be on probation. Since it was said that this kid bullied his younger relatives those children and the parents of those children may fear this kid being around them.

I think it would be no different than any town that had to go about their daily lives knowing a person who killed someone brutally walks their streets as if they don't have a care in the world.

There are literally thousands of murderers freely walking around on this earth and probably several close to you. To think this child will go on a killing spree and kill people he don’t even know is grasping for an excuse to over act maliciously toward a little boy who was NOT found guilty of murder. This is a very sad situation and there are better ways to handle it without the Mob mentality it appears people are caught up in. I’ve found a little common sense goes a long way when trying to solve things.

[Jadedblueeyes]

There are literally thousands of murderers freely walking around on this earth and probably several close to you. To think this child will go on a killing spree and kill people he don’t even know is grasping for an excuse to over act maliciously toward a little boy who was NOT found guilty of murder. This is a very sad situation and there are better ways to handle it without the Mob mentality it appears people are caught up in. I’ve found a little common sense goes a long way when trying to solve things.

I live in a very low crime area but there are a few murders a year, maybe 6. Those defendants most often get LWOP so the citizens don't have to worry about them coming around their children. There is one man that was guilty of manslaughter several years ago and he is out now but he pretty much stays clear of everyone and keeps to himself.

I cant speak for the people of St. John or say they shouldn't be fearful of this child. Evidently there are many who do fear him and him being around their children. I can honestly say I sure wouldn't want him anywhere near my children. I would think with this being such a small town that the citizens of St. John knows this boy much better than anyone else.

I haven't heard anything about any mob but I do know that people have a right to feel any way they choose whether it is to be apprehensive that there is a killer who walks their streets or to support him. IIRC, there hasn't been a homicide there before this one in over 20 years.

A lack of a legal verdict or plea never means he didn't kill his own father either and people are allowed to have their own entitled opinions which can vastly differ on guilt. I do think that the majority do look at CR as a double murderer and are very uncomfortable with him out free as if nothing ever happened.

imo

[Its just me]

I live in a very low crime area but there are a few murders a year, maybe 6. Those defendants most often get LWOP so the citizens don't have to worry about them coming around their children. There is one man that was guilty of manslaughter several years ago and he is out now but he pretty much stays clear of everyone and keeps to himself.

I cant speak for the people of St. John or say they shouldn't be fearful of this child. Evidently there are many who do fear him and him being around their children. I can honestly say I sure wouldn't want him anywhere near my children. I would think with this being such a small town that the citizens of St. John knows this boy much better than anyone else.

I haven't heard anything about any mob but I do know that people have a right to feel any way they choose whether it is to be apprehensive that there is a killer who walks their streets or to support him. IIRC, there hasn't been a homicide there before this one in over 20 years.

A lack of a legal verdict or plea never means he didn't kill his own father either and people are allowed to have their own entitled opinions which can vastly differ on guilt. I do think that the majority do look at CR as a double murderer and are very uncomfortable with him out free as if nothing ever happened.

imo

I believe what I put in bold is the problem... this majority if it exists can not accept what the court decided. The plea deal was made by the people "in charge". The DA offered it, the defense accepted it and the Judge approved it. The child has the right to move around in St. Johns as much as any other citizen and has the right not to be followed or harrassed.
My post didn't say there was a "mob" I said "without the mob mentality people appeared to have". There is a difference and there is evidence of mob mentality of some of the folks in St. Johns and thou it doesn't amount to a hill of beans I've seen some evidence of the same mentality on the message boards. I think for the grandmother to ask the Police about purchasing a gun something is very wrong and it includes a lot more people than the child, grandmother or mother.

mhoo

[Jadedblueeyes]

I believe what I put in bold is the problem... this majority if it exists can not accept what the court decided. The plea deal was made by the people "in charge". The DA offered it, the defense accepted it and the Judge approved it. The child has the right to move around in St. Johns as much as any other citizen and has the right not to be followed or harassed.
My post didn't say there was a "mob" I said "without the mob mentality people appeared to have". There is a difference and there is evidence of mob mentality of some of the folks in St. Johns and thou it doesn't amount to a hill of beans I've seen some evidence of the same mentality on the message boards. I think for the grandmother to ask the Police about purchasing a gun something is very wrong and it includes a lot more people than the child, grandmother or mother.

mhoo

Well, yes, I wholeheartedly agree but that is not shocking. Years and years later the majority of the public do believe that OJ murdered two people in cold blood even though the legal verdict said otherwise, so a plea down or a verdict never stops the court of public opinion.

I am one of those that does firmly believe that he cold blooded killed two unsuspecting men. I know the case was plead down but I still hold the same opinion based on the tiny,tiny window of time when these murders occurred.

Judge accepts pleas for pedophile sex offenders too who have raped and tortured little children for years on end and some of them don't even get any prison time but solely probation. So an individual citizen certainly doesn't have to agree with the disposition on any case including this one.

I am not sure he has just as much right. The last I read they have to determine if he is a danger to himself or others and the doctors have not finished their evaluations yet. This is one of the reasons he was not allowed to return to public schools and imo also due to the faculty thinking.... by him being there it will not be in the best interest of the rest of the children which are certainly just as important as this kid.

I do think Liz does feel threatened by those who absolutely do not want this kid in their town but the fact is to adhere to his probation she cannot violate and have weapons of any kind in her home. I think LE is astutely aware how this has brought turmoil and unrest in St. John and I am sure they remain vigilant.

imo

[Its just me]

Well, yes, I wholeheartedly agree but that is not shocking. Years and years later the majority of the public do believe that OJ murdered two people in cold blood even though the legal verdict said otherwise, so a plea down or a verdict never stops the court of public opinion.

I am one of those that does firmly believe that he cold blooded killed two unsuspecting men. I know the case was plead down but I still hold the same opinion based on the tiny,tiny window of time when these murders occurred.

Judge accepts pleas for pedophile sex offenders too who have raped and tortured little children for years on end and some of them don't even get any prison time but solely probation. So an individual citizen certainly doesn't have to agree with the disposition on any case including this one.

I am not sure he has just as much right. The last I read they have to determine if he is a danger to himself or others and the doctors have not finished their evaluations yet. This is one of the reasons he was not allowed to return to public schools and imo also due to the faculty thinking.... by him being there it will not be in the best interest of the rest of the children which are certainly just as important as this kid.

I do think Liz does feel threatened by those who absolutely do not want this kid in their town but the fact is to adhere to his probation she cannot violate and have weapons of any kind in her home. I think LE is astutely aware how this has brought turmoil and unrest in St. John and I am sure they remain vigilant.

imo

What is in the orders he lives under today that says one thing about him not having the freedom to move about in St. Johns as any other citizen. There is NOT one thing that I'm aware and if there is not... yes at this time he has as much right as the next guy and he should be protected from being followed as you think people are doing or harrassed. Period. Not only is this kid required to follow his orders from the court...the people of St. Johns also have the responsibility to obey the law of the land. Stalking comes to mind after reading your post again. Kind of pathetic if that is actually happening. Maybe the court will determine if the grandmother needs protection and if the court decides she does need something to protect her household the rules of the childs probation can always be rewritten to allow her to have a gun. I doubt she asked if she could have one so she could play Annie Oakley. imoo

snip from your post above: "In fact it would not surprise me if private citizens are keeping up with the whereabouts of this kid at all times"

[Jadedblueeyes]

What is in the orders he lives under today that says one thing about him not having the freedom to move about in St. Johns as any other citizen. There is NOT one thing that I'm aware and if there is not... yes at this time he has as much right as the next guy and he should be protected from being followed as you think people are doing or harassed. Period. Not only is this kid required to follow his orders from the court...the people of St. Johns also have the responsibility to obey the law of the land. Stalking comes to mind after reading your post again. Kind of pathetic if that is actually happening. Maybe the court will determine if the grandmother needs protection and if the court decides she does need something to protect her household the rules of the childs probation can always be rewritten to allow her to have a gun. I doubt she asked if she could have one so she could play Annie Oakley. imoo

snip from your post above: "In fact it would not surprise me if private citizens are keeping up with the whereabouts of this kid at all times"

Well that is not known. At the end of what is probation details it also mentions any other directives given by the court and we don't know what those are.

In a town of 4,000 I don't think it would take stalking to keep up with the boy. I think the town is abuzz when he shows up anywhere he goes. He is not a popular person there. I don't really know any killers that are. They are mostly ostracized by the majority. If there were any stalkers then Liz would have told the police about that. She probably gets threatening phone calls.

Roca is never going to place a weapon inside the home with this kid. It ain't gonna happen imo. The risk would just be too high if JR did something this foolish knowing the boy has already admitted to killing one human being.

imo

[Its just me]

Well that is not known. At the end of what is probation details it also mentions any other directives given by the court and we don't know what those are.

In a town of 4,000 I don't think it would take stalking to keep up with the boy. I think the town is abuzz when he shows up anywhere he goes. He is not a popular person there. I don't really know any killers that are. They are mostly ostracized by the majority. If there were any stalkers then Liz would have told the police about that. She probably gets threatening phone calls.

Roca is never going to place a weapon inside the home with this kid. It ain't gonna happen imo. The risk would just be too high if JR did something this foolish knowing the boy has already admitted to killing one human being.

imo
If there was anything that limits the child moving about in St. Johns trust me it would be on a message board. LOL
I live near a town with less than 4000 and to keep up with someone at all time as you think private citizens are doing with this child...they would be stalking. For many years I owned and operated a Hardware store in a little town near me with less than 500 people and you don't know where anyone is at all time unless you stalk them. That is just reality and not an opinion.
I have confidence the Judge will handle what needs handling in the way it needs to be handled.

[Jadedblueeyes]

If there was anything that limits the child moving about in St. Johns trust me it would be on a message board. LOL
I live near a town with less than 4000 and to keep up with someone at all time as you think private citizens are doing with this child...they would be stalking. For many years I owned and operated a Hardware store in a little town near me with less than 500 people and you don't know where anyone is at all time unless you stalk them. That is just reality and not an opinion.
I have confidence the Judge will handle what needs handling in the way it needs to be handled.

I am not sure what you mean IJM. We would not be privy to any of the other directives that Judge Roca has put in place. These were the stipulations the State imposed but it does not prevent the Judge from imposing further stipulations. It says that in the plea agreement. He can modify it anytime he thinks it is necessary.

I think it would be very easy to spot this boy when he is out and about. He isn't the typical kid and wherever he goes he brings immediate attention.

Oh I think the Judge will chastise the mother and then give it another try. They really have no place to put this kid. JR has stated over and over that cases like THIS and a defendant this age has no place in the JUVENILE justice system.

He is the youngest killer ever in the state of Arizona. He is really even too young for juvie where the juvenile offenders of lesser crimes than he has committed, are guarded as a group. Even when they had him the first time for awhile they had to hold him in a lone holding cell with a sole guard there. That cost extra money and it is money that none of the detention centers have right now with the economy sinking and all the cutbacks.

imo

[Its just me]

I am not sure what you mean IJM. We would not be privy to any of the other directives that Judge Roca has put in place. These were the stipulations the State imposed but it does not prevent the Judge from imposing further stipulations. It says that in the plea agreement. He can modify it anytime he thinks it is necessary.

I think it would be very easy to spot this boy when he is out and about. He isn't the typical kid and wherever he goes he brings immediate attention.

Oh I think the Judge will chastise the mother and then give it another try. They really have no place to put this kid. JR has stated over and over that cases like THIS and a defendant this age has no place in the JUVENILE justice system.

He is the youngest killer ever in the state of Arizona. He is really even too young for juvie where the juvenile offenders of lesser crimes than he has committed, are guarded as a group. Even when they had him the first time for awhile they had to hold him in a lone holding cell with a sole guard there. That cost extra money and it is money that none of the detention centers have right now with the economy sinking and all the cutbacks.

imo

I think I'm pretty clear myself...I really don't see much use in discussing things beyond the basic facts so I'm going to let this thread rest ....I read enough of imaginations and personal opinion stuff on another message board and I see absolutely no productivity there.

[Seashell]

There are literally thousands of murderers freely walking around on this earth and probably several close to you. To think this child will go on a killing spree and kill people he don’t even know is grasping for an excuse to over act maliciously toward a little boy who was NOT found guilty of murder. This is a very sad situation and there are better ways to handle it without the Mob mentality it appears people are caught up in. I’ve found a little common sense goes a long way when trying to solve things.

Thank you and i agree to everything you have posted till now. :rose:

[Its just me]

Thank you and i agree to everything you have posted till now. :rose:

YW and Thank you. Some new documents up at the Apache County Superior Court web page. There will be a hearing tomorrow at 2 or 2:30 IIRC on the motion to terminate furlough for the boy. The mother and child's attorney's responses are quite interesting.
http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/docs/


RESPONSE TO STATES REQ TO TERM FURLOUGH 06152009.pdf (http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/docs/Cases/JV2008065/RESPONSE%20TO%20STATES%20REQ%20TO%20TERM%20FURLOUG H%2006152009.pdf)

RESPONSE TO REQUEST TO INCARCERATE 06102009.pdf (http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/docs/Cases/JV2008065/RESPONSE%20TO%20REQUEST%20TO%20INCARCERATE%2006102 009.pdf)

[SaraSidle]

Once I was an adult, I resented unbridled authority and bullies. I don't know if you would call that rebellious. I resented those who lofted their power needlessly over others. However, I respected my elders and others and realized the importance of everyone's life. I respected the fact that we each have a role to play and there are rules as to how to perform the role. I respected that my parents were doing all they could to provide for me financially and to provide me with the skills to succeed in life. I respected them for it and for them to demand my respect or teach me respect was a small price to pay.

that is the path I try to ride every day in life. sara

[William Anthony]

that is the path I try to ride every day in life. sara

I believe that you do and I think that more should try to follow that path.

[Jadedblueeyes]

Just wanted to give a reminder to anyone who may still be interested in this case.

The disposition of the case will be at 9:30 am September 22, 2009

http://www.apacheclerk.net/PDFs/current_month.pdf

I don't expect there will be any changes from what his guidelines have already been for months now.

It will be interesting though to learn if he is eligible to return to public schools or will he have to attend school full time in the detention center like he is doing at the present time since school started this year.

RIP
Timothy Romans:rose:
Vinnie Romero:rose:

[Jadedblueeyes]

There are literally thousands of murderers freely walking around on this earth and probably several close to you. To think this child will go on a killing spree and kill people he don’t even know is grasping for an excuse to over act maliciously toward a little boy who was NOT found guilty of murder. This is a very sad situation and there are better ways to handle it without the Mob mentality it appears people are caught up in. I’ve found a little common sense goes a long way when trying to solve things.

I don't think we can say with any certainty what "kids" will do or not do.

He was found guilty of a homicide though IJM and a very heinous one which means he had the ability to carry out that homicide. That very fact sets him apart from what "normal" kids will do or not do imo.

Here is a case where young children committed unspeakable crimes and even in detention are still violent. And there are countless other juveniles who do re-offend on some criminal level after they are released and on probation.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Torture brothers will 'be free at 18': Sadists who maimed two innocent boys to be given lifelong anonymity

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz0QR4L2k9Y

The sadistic young brothers who tortured two boys almost to death will enjoy lifelong anonymity.
The pair are likely to be freed from custody within six years, before they reach the age of 18.
Then, say lawyers, they are likely to be granted the same freedom from identification given to the two boys responsible for the 1993 killing of two-year-old James Bulger.

The brothers have been held in separate secure units since April, when they attacked their two victims on waste ground after luring them there on the promise of showing them foxes and toads.

During a two-hour ordeal, a nine-year-old boy and his 11-year-old uncle were hit with sticks and bricks. One had a sink dropped on his head, one had a noose put round his neck and the other was burned with a cigarette on his eyelids and ear.

Officials had hoped that the brothers' violent behavior would improve when they were separated from each other.
But the pair have been instigating fights with other inmates and bullying them, a source told the Mail last night.
Their attacks prompted staff at each center to remove the boys' privileges, including the use of a television and computer games, as punishment.

'They haven't changed a bit,' a source told the Mail. 'They're not humble or remorseful - they just see this as an opportunity to be bullies all over again, but with the luxury of nice meals and new TVs.'

Although huge amounts of money are poured into their rehabilitation, more than 78 per cent of children released from custody re-offend within 12 months.

Much more in article.......

[Its just me]

I'm still interested in the case and NO offense intended but I'm not interested in anything you have to say....I read enough of that at IS. We don't agree on many issues and I see NO point in discussing it. I appreciate you providing the disposition date. I have not seen anything in the past for me not to have confidence the court will continue to handle the case in a manner that is best for the child.

My prayers continue for all involved in the actual case. fep

ETA: Unless I'm lost....The child was not "found" guilty of anything. There was a plea and to my understanding there is a big difference. That is another reason I'm not interested in what you have to say....I prefer facts over opinions especially when opinions are not true. fep

ETA: FWIW I could not find the article at the link you provided. It was not a direct link. fep

[Jadedblueeyes]

A plea is an admission of guilt.

It is even better than a jury verdict because the defendant states in a court of law that they do ADMIT to the homicide they are pleading too. So yes he has admitted GUILT in the homicide of Tim Romans.

While you always seem to try very hard to be rude and condescending IJM, I am sorry that you feel others cannot voice their own opinions and if they dare do not agree with yours then you cant simply debate them in a civil tone.

Whether you reply to me is irrelevant to me but if I see a post of yours that I want to reply to that you have written I certainly also have a right to reply and will do so. I'm not into the childish game of "I'm not gonna talk to you anymore.:rolleyes:"

Sad when it has to comes down to childish immature petty bickering instead of just having the maturity to state one's opinion with the snarkiness left out which is totally uncalled for anyway and serves no purpose except to snipe, imo.

imo

[Jadedblueeyes]

The link that I provided is the Court Calender for September 2009.

It is easy as pie to scroll down to September 22, 2009 and find the boy's name and "Disposition" notated by it.

http://www.apacheclerk.net/PDFs/current_month.pdf

[Its just me]

Here is a case where young children committed unspeakable crimes and even in detention are still violent. And there are countless other juveniles who do re-offend on some criminal level after they are released and on probation.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Torture brothers will 'be free at 18': Sadists who maimed two innocent boys to be given lifelong anonymity

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz0QR4L2k9Y


Much more in article.......



ETA: FWIW I could not find the article at the link you provided. It was not a direct link. fep

See snips of posts above it's as easy as pie to read.....I was NOT posting about the court calender....I clearly stated I could not find the "article" at the link you provided.

[Its just me]

A plea is an admission of guilt.

It is even better than a jury verdict because the defendant states in a court of law that they do ADMIT to the homicide they are pleading too. So yes he has admitted GUILT in the homicide of Tim Romans.

While you always seem to try very hard to be rude and condescending IJM, I am sorry that you feel others cannot voice their own opinions and if they dare do not agree with yours then you cant simply debate them in a civil tone.

Whether you reply to me is irrelevant to me but if I see a post of yours that I want to reply to that you have written I certainly also have a right to reply and will do so. I'm not into the childish game of "I'm not gonna talk to you anymore.:rolleyes:"

Sad when it has to comes down to childish immature petty bickering instead of just having the maturity to state one's opinion with the snarkiness left out which is totally uncalled for anyway and serves no purpose except to snipe, imo.

imo

See why I don't want to discuss anything with you. You get in to calling people names and it becomes a pissing contest. I'm far beyond such but thanks for trying. Find you another internet junkie. I'm not interested.

[Jadedblueeyes]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1211284/Torture-brothers-free-18-Sadists-maimed-innocent-boys-given-lifelong-anonymity.html#ixzz0QR4L2k9Y

Torture brothers will 'be free at 18': Sadists who maimed two innocent boys to be given lifelong anonymity

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1211284/Torture-brothers-free-18-Sadists-maimed-innocent-boys-given-lifelong-anonymity.html#ixzz0QYsvJ1Pd

[Jadedblueeyes]

Disposition postponed until October 22, 2009

[Jadedblueeyes]

IMO, this kid has severe behavioral disorders. (Conduct Disorders) Conduct disorders are not a mental illness and many who have conduct disorders are not treatable and are incurable.

Placement delays 9-year-old's homicide sentencing

A 9-year-old Arizona boy who pleaded guilty in the killing of his father's roommate likely won't be sentenced Thursday because no state or county agency is willing to pay for the costly psychiatric treatment required under terms of a plea agreement, attorneys said.

Even the county mental health consortium in the region refused to take on the case, calling it a behavioral issue and not a mental health issue, Whiting said.

Whiting and Wood both said the boy may end up being sent to an out-of-state treatment center for treatment.

"Honestly, we're just trying to do the best we can for this kid," Whiting said. "It may never work - he may end up in prison for the rest of his life for other crimes - but we've got to try."

more at link.

I have felt from day one this was no ordinary child.

The dilemma that Whiting has found himself in is because in the plea deal he agreed to treatment for this kid and it was done before the psychiatrists evaluated him and gave their prognosis. No agency is going to want to shell out thousands of dollars on a person that doesn't have mental illiness but has conduct(behavioral) disorders instead, which is a waste of time and good money that the agencies don't have.

imo

[SaraSidle]

IMO, this kid has severe behavioral disorders. (Conduct Disorders) Conduct disorders are not a mental illness and many who have conduct disorders are not treatable and are incurable.

Placement delays 9-year-old's homicide sentencing

A 9-year-old Arizona boy who pleaded guilty in the killing of his father's roommate likely won't be sentenced Thursday because no state or county agency is willing to pay for the costly psychiatric treatment required under terms of a plea agreement, attorneys said.

Even the county mental health consortium in the region refused to take on the case, calling it a behavioral issue and not a mental health issue, Whiting said.

Whiting and Wood both said the boy may end up being sent to an out-of-state treatment center for treatment.

"Honestly, we're just trying to do the best we can for this kid," Whiting said. "It may never work - he may end up in prison for the rest of his life for other crimes - but we've got to try."

more at link.

I have felt from day one this was no ordinary child.

The dilemma that Whiting has found himself in is because in the plea deal he agreed to treatment for this kid and it was done before the psychiatrists evaluated him and gave their prognosis. No agency is going to want to shell out thousands of dollars on a person that doesn't have mental illiness but has conduct(behavioral) disorders instead, which is a waste of time and good money that the agencies don't have.

imo

ITA but something has to be done with this child.
Insurance will not cover
Treatment will not work
Going to any kind of juvy environment or prison will not help.
What can be done with future sociopaths?
Even if Dahmers father had known what could he have done?
Maybe we should have some kind of public funding? :shrug:

IMO

[Jadedblueeyes]

ITA but something has to be done with this child.
Insurance will not cover
Treatment will not work
Going to any kind of juvy environment or prison will not help.
What can be done with future sociopaths?
Even if Dahmers father had known what could he have done?
Maybe we should have some kind of public funding? :shrug:

IMO

Hi Sara,

I really don't know what we can do with these people who really cant be helped with any treatment. Whiting has to see that he is given treatment even though it may do no good since that is what he agreed to when he and Woods and the boy entered into the plea deal.

I have just been watching the case on IS today and that defendant also had serious conduct disorders throughout his life. He wound up murdering three innocent human beings. His past teacher described him as extremely disturbed and in a special class. He was given therapy for this disorder but as we can see by him committing murder x 3 it did not work.

And they cant keep this kid forever in a mental treatment facility so he will be back out for society to deal with.

imo

[Its just me]

I would like to know where "3" people being murdered comes from. :confused::confused: to my knowledge there is NO...... x 3
What is the name of a third person.

[Jadedblueeyes]

I would like to know where "3" people being murdered comes from. :confused::confused: to my knowledge there is NO...... x 3
What is the name of a third person.

I was referring to the Heynes murder trial aring on ISs today. Not this kid who killed two.

Heynes too had conduct (behavioral) disorders.

imo

[Its just me]

Thank You, I see where I made the mistake.