Random Discussions On The Case [Archive] - Page 9

martin II

03-23-2009, 09:22 AM

I think there was a lot of back and forth between OJ and Nicole but at the time she was killed she was done with him. She was afraid of him and furious that he had put her in a bad position with the tax situation. IMO, he knew she was finally finished with him and that contributed to his rage.

Some recent time before niciole was killed the following happened.

1. When nicole ran into financial trouble and she had her freedom she asked oj to lie to the IRS to help her save on her taxes. oj had stated that he had tired of her bringing her money and social problems to him as he was no longer with her. i think i remember him saying she had told him about some problems she was having with a boy friend and asked him for some advice.

His lawyer wrote her a letter rejecting her IRS request. If at this time oj was trying to get her back he could have agreed to her request. But he didnt because he was now seeing paula. He knew Nicole would be pissed at his rejection but he didnt care.

Then he and Paula became closer in their relationship and oj told Cora, nicole and other friends that Paula was his woman now.

This does not look like he was trying to get Nicole back.
Then she was killed.

PS
I think Faye was poison to Nicole and oj.She seemed to be running around betwen Oj and Nicole spreading negativity to both about the other.It seems that Faye was always involved in Nicole partying and seeing other guys.I think she used nicole and oj for herself and her habit. imo

martin II

03-23-2009, 09:30 AM

It makes perfect sense to me that that's why she would have gone to the door with a knife as Mike Gilbert reported Simpson told him. She was expecting trouble from him, imo.

She was expecting ron. Did Gilbert say what happened to the knife nicole brought to the door.I doubt Oj simpson told Mike Gilber any such thing.Just Gilber trying to sell that failed book.

martin II

03-23-2009, 09:40 AM

Why does it make any more sense for the blood to be where it was found if he innocently cut himself? When did he jump and run? This is new to me. Are you sure you're not remembering the jumping and running from the Hertz commercials?

Thats funny.
But if oj had a big gash. big deep cut as you say.i think that is the word you used.Why is it that he did not bleed in the bedroom and through the house?
Why is it that the people that talked to him at the airport saw nothing wrong with his finger. The captain on the plane that sat next to him saw nothing wrong with his fingers.Vanhatter did not see a gash during the interview on 6/13.The doctor that examined him on his return said the finger had a zigzag wound like a cut from a glass would leave. there was no gash.imo

weezer

03-23-2009, 09:41 AM

The testimony was that there was a wet transfer on the socks. How can we believe that other blood had dried and the figure that Allan Park saw, whom most believe to be Simpson, was not barefoot, like your avatar,:), or at least there is no testimony of such. We know that the sweat suit was allegedly found in the washing machine and I still have not gotten an answer to the question as to whether or not there was a picture taken of the sweat suit in the washing machine before it was taken out. As it stands now, all we know for sure is that LE placed it in there and then it was videoed. Link to the testimony that blood was found in the drains but not enough to type?

I don't think you understand what was found on the socks and where.

you've been given the picture of the sweatsuit in the washing machine -- thanks to tvdinner. I'm not sure why you feel the need to lie about the testimony and state that ". . .all we know for sure is that LE placed it in there and then it was videoed. . ."

you've also been given Fung's testimony about the blood in the drains. WTH william.

martin II

03-23-2009, 09:43 AM

I do believe she knew -- I think his slow burn started when she rebuked his offer to take Justin and continued right up through the phone call where he made her cry. I'm betting he was threatening her then. . .

I am betting Faye may have told her of her problems she was having with her cocain suppliers and for her to watch out.imo

weezer

03-23-2009, 09:43 AM

There was no blood found on the air conditioner and I believe MF deposited the glove there by the evidence.

again -- you guys dispute the defense witness! LOL

weezer

03-23-2009, 09:50 AM

Why did the lab not test the blood on the 3rd side of the sock? Seems like they test the blood that hey wanted to test and left the other without testing.

The socks were collected by le on 6/13. No blood was found. I think it was six weeks later no blood was found by Lee or the lab person. Then later blood was found. All this after OJS blood was drawn on 6/13 that Vanhatter had and i believe Nicoles would have been drawn then also.imo

the socks were collected by le on 6/13 because in an otherwise clean and orderly room, the socks laying ont the floor looked out of place. by the time lee looked at the socks, they spots of blood had been cut out for testing. remember him whining about that?

orenthal's blood and DNA being on his socks isn't important. Nicole's fresh blood being on his socks is incriminating. and martin, Nicole's autopsy wasn't for two days -- the blood had long begun its breakdown.

martin II

03-23-2009, 09:51 AM

he jumped the fence, got blood on the air conditioner, scared Kato when he hit the wall, dropped his glove --- surely you remember all of this?

yes, the police did in fact tell orenthal about the blood. do you not remember the interview transcript?

There was no testimony that oj jumped the fence or was in the south walkway.The salingers property was examined and no proof was found that oj had been on their property.

Again. Vanhatter and two other detectives examined the bushes and the walkway and testified that no one came through the bushes and jumped that fence.You continue to ignore their testimony.
imo

weezer

03-23-2009, 09:51 AM

The drop on the sock or do you believe it splashed there when they say Simpson stepped on her back.

what do you think william, maybe when he was slashing her throat some of her blood got on his socks or do you think there's no way that could happen?

weezer

03-23-2009, 09:53 AM

If you have time read LEES testimony on how the lab was very uncooperative
on what he asked for. I think he said they even gave him a broke microscope to use.imo

there you go misquoting testimony again -- the microscrope wasn't broken -- it just wasn't up to his 'standards' -- whatever he thinks those are. lee was whiney because he obviously wasn't treated like the rock star he believed himself to be.

martin II

03-23-2009, 09:57 AM

the socks were collected by le on 6/13 because in an otherwise clean and orderly room, the socks laying ont the floor looked out of place. by the time lee looked at the socks, they spots of blood had been cut out for testing. remember him whining about that?

orenthal's blood and DNA being on his socks isn't important. Nicole's fresh blood being on his socks is incriminating. and martin, Nicole's autopsy wasn't for two days -- the blood had long begun its breakdown.

You believe that no Nicole blood was collected at Bundy on 6/13?

I sit on my bed to take socks off all the time, some time i put them away and some time i leave them for later.The leather strap seen on the bed when the socks were photographed was what was out of place but Fung did not collect it.imo

weezer

03-23-2009, 10:00 AM

Some recent time before niciole was killed the following happened.

1. When nicole ran into financial trouble and she had her freedom she asked oj to lie to the IRS to help her save on her taxes. oj had stated that he had tired of her bringing her money and social problems to him as he was no longer with her. i think i remember him saying she had told him about some problems she was having with a boy friend and asked him for some advice. Nicole said she wasn't going to claim the IRS stuff until the situation between her and orenthal was decided. Once she told him it was over, he retaliated with the IRS letter. Remember his lawyer's statement/notes the he changed the letter so that it didn't sound so vindictive?

His lawyer wrote her a letter rejecting her IRS request. If at this time oj was trying to get her back he could have agreed to her request. But he didnt because he was now seeing paula. He knew Nicole would be pissed at his rejection but he didnt care. Actually, orenthal took credit for writing the letter with Cathy Randa. It didn't have anything to do with Paula, it had everything to do with hurting Nicole.

Then he and Paula became closer in their relationship and oj told Cora, nicole and other friends that Paula was his woman now. except, of course, he didn't want Paula to participate in his life with his children. isn't that why Paula dumped him the night he murdered Ron and Nicole?

This does not look like he was trying to get Nicole back.
Then she was killed. I think Nicole made it pretty clear that there wasn't any going back on her part. Then he killed her.

PS
I think Faye was poison to Nicole and oj.She seemed to be running around betwen Oj and Nicole spreading negativity to both about the other.It seems that Faye was always involved in Nicole partying and seeing other guys.I think she used nicole and oj for herself and her habit. imo

orenthal was abusing, stalking, threatening Nicole long before there was a Faye so your theory can be viewed as another attempt to shift blame from where it belongs -- orenthal james simpson.

martin II

03-23-2009, 10:02 AM

there you go misquoting testimony again -- the microscrope wasn't broken -- it just wasn't up to his 'standards' -- whatever he thinks those are. lee was whiney because he obviously wasn't treated like the rock star he believed himself to be.

Weezer

Lee said the miscrope was broken and here you are 13 years later saying it was not broken.hahaha

I think that in most well run labs everything needed for a expert to do tesing on a item is made available for the test. lee said this was not done for him.

weezer

03-23-2009, 10:02 AM

Thats funny.
But if oj had a big gash. big deep cut as you say.i think that is the word you used.Why is it that he did not bleed in the bedroom and through the house?
Why is it that the people that talked to him at the airport saw nothing wrong with his finger. The captain on the plane that sat next to him saw nothing wrong with his fingers.Vanhatter did not see a gash during the interview on 6/13.The doctor that examined him on his return said the finger had a zigzag wound like a cut from a glass would leave. there was no gash.imo

martin, martin, martin. of course there were cuts on his hands during the initial interview -- pictures were taken and orenthal floated his first lie about how they happened.

weezer

03-23-2009, 10:05 AM

I am betting Faye may have told her of her problems she was having with her cocain suppliers and for her to watch out.imo

on the night he murdered two human beings, orenthal james simpson was the only person with drugs in his system. on the night they were murdered by orenthal james simpson, Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown did not have drugs in their system. Your speculation about Faye and what the conversation was about is simply fantasy on your part. or maybe wishful thinking. . . .imo

William Anthony

03-23-2009, 10:08 AM

again -- you guys dispute the defense witness! LOL

Link please to blood being found on the air conditioner? There was no blood found, as you well know, if you have been following the posts with the testimony and statements from the trial.

martin II

03-23-2009, 10:11 AM

orenthal was abusing, stalking, threatening Nicole long before there was a Faye so your theory can be viewed as another attempt to shift blame from where it belongs -- orenthal james simpson.

WRONG

The reason oj did not take paula to the recital was because of a agreement he and Nicole had not to bring their loved ones around the children.Paula wanted to show someone, maby nicole, that she was now OJS woman and he did not want to cause trouble between Paula and Nicole at the recital.

I think Nicoles request that oj allow her to use his address for the IRS was an attempt to get back to Rockingham for good.Which he had refused to agree to.After all she was in financial trouble and oj had planty of money and he had come to her rescue most of the time as he did at GG for her to get that apartment..imo

William Anthony

03-23-2009, 10:12 AM

what do you think william, maybe when he was slashing her throat some of her blood got on his socks or do you think there's no way that could happen?

I have posted the testimony of the person, whose last name is the same as the fabric the prosecution alleged Simpson was wearing but could not connect him to, and that is what I believe. You seem to believe that Simpson stood behind her and cut her throat and somehow blood got onto his sock and remained wet until he took them off, while no blood was found on his white carpet, even though he was allegedly bleeding, correct?

William Anthony

03-23-2009, 10:14 AM

on the night he murdered two human beings, orenthal james simpson was the only person with drugs in his system. on the night they were murdered by orenthal james simpson, Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown did not have drugs in their system. Your speculation about Faye and what the conversation was about is simply fantasy on your part. or maybe wishful thinking. . . .imo

He was tried and acquitted because the jury felt that the prosecution failed to prove the charges beyond a reasonable doubt.

martin II

03-23-2009, 10:14 AM

Link please to blood being found on the air conditioner? There was no blood found, as you well know, if you have been following the posts with the testimony and statements from the trial.

Everyone knows there was no blood found on the air conditioner.To say that was not enough for a test is just plain wrong.

William Anthony

03-23-2009, 10:18 AM

Everyone knows there was no blood found on the air conditioner.To say that was not enough for a test is just plain wrong.

There was no blood found in or near the location MF claimed to have found the glove.

martin II

03-23-2009, 10:19 AM

on the night he murdered two human beings, orenthal james simpson was the only person with drugs in his system. on the night they were murdered by orenthal james simpson, Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown did not have drugs in their system. Your speculation about Faye and what the conversation was about is simply fantasy on your part. or maybe wishful thinking. . . .imo

Weezer

Faye had been freebasing cocain before she moved into Nicole house, which is why her husband kicked her out, during her stay there and according to Nicole causing bad people to come to nicoles house which Nicoel did not like. All of a sudden she ran to the safety of rehab a just a few days later Nicole was killed.
You figure.

martin II

03-23-2009, 10:26 AM

There was no blood found in or near the location MF claimed to have found the glove.

There was no proof that anyone had been in the south walkway at Ronkingham other than Furhman.

martin II

03-23-2009, 10:31 AM

I have posted the testimony of the person, whose last name is the same as the fabric the prosecution alleged Simpson was wearing but could not connect him to, and that is what I believe. You seem to believe that Simpson stood behind her and cut her throat and somehow blood got onto his sock and remained wet until he took them off, while no blood was found on his white carpet, even though he was allegedly bleeding, correct?

Or that a blood drop penetrated the leg of the coton sweats to the sock or that oj had a hole in his ankle. What is known is that ojs blood was taken on 6/13 and Vanhatter treated it like it belonged to him, and the socks were not considered until six weeks later.

What i think is that in most well run labs, evidence is received by SID, examined, results recorded
on paper, packaged and sent for more DNA testing or stored for the trial.
The socks were collected on 6/13 examined by Fung by lee, by Matherson and no blood was found.
Then blood was found.

martin II

03-23-2009, 10:39 AM

on the night he murdered two human beings, orenthal james simpson was the only person with drugs in his system. on the night they were murdered by orenthal james simpson, Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown did not have drugs in their system. Your speculation about Faye and what the conversation was about is simply fantasy on your part. or maybe wishful thinking. . . .imo

You are not suggesting that fay was not freebasing cocain at nicoles are you.
You are not suggestinmg that Nicole did not like the people that came to nicoles to see Faye are you. You are not suggesting that Fay ran to rehab a few days before Nicole was killed are you. She admitted the freebasing herself.

weezer

03-23-2009, 11:21 AM

You believe that no Nicole blood was collected at Bundy on 6/13?

I sit on my bed to take socks off all the time, some time i put them away and some time i leave them for later.The leather strap seen on the bed when the socks were photographed was what was out of place but Fung did not collect it.imo

the blood outside of Bundy was collected -- are you seriously thinking that that degraded blood was planted on orenthal's socks weeks later? LOL

the straps were recognized for what they were -- luggage straps on top of the bed where obviously luggage had been previously laying.

weezer

03-23-2009, 11:25 AM

WRONG

The reason oj did not take paula to the recital was because of a agreement he and Nicole had not to bring their loved ones around the children.Paula wanted to show someone, maby nicole, that she was now OJS woman and he did not want to cause trouble between Paula and Nicole at the recital.

I think Nicoles request that oj allow her to use his address for the IRS was an attempt to get back to Rockingham for good.Which he had refused to agree to.After all she was in financial trouble and oj had planty of money and he had come to her rescue most of the time as he did at GG for her to get that apartment..imo

orenthal said that argument between him and paula never happened -- you're not calling him a liar are you?

orenthal rushed back to be in town for the recital and was dissed by Nicole. it obviously really pissed him off.

at the time of her death, Nicole didn't want back to Rockingham. that's when orenthal murdered her.

Nicole didn't need orenthal's money or help -- I guess that also contributed to his rage and murdering her.

weezer

03-23-2009, 11:28 AM

I have posted the testimony of the person, whose last name is the same as the fabric the prosecution alleged Simpson was wearing but could not connect him to, and that is what I believe. You seem to believe that Simpson stood behind her and cut her throat and somehow blood got onto his sock and remained wet until he took them off, while no blood was found on his white carpet, even though he was allegedly bleeding, correct?

I believe orenthal placed his size 12 pigeon-toed bruno magli's in the middle of Nicole's back as he pulled her head back and cut her throat. I am not surprised that her blood was on his socks.

you are confused about the sock testimony and what was and was not wet. and I still don't understand what you think no blood on the carpet proves. good grief william, even orenthal admitted to bleeding at Rockingham that night.

weezer

03-23-2009, 11:29 AM

Everyone knows there was no blood found on the air conditioner.To say that was not enough for a test is just plain wrong.

nope -- blood on the air conditioner or at least lee identified it as possibly blood. of course, the defense wasn't going there --

weezer

03-23-2009, 11:31 AM

There was no testimony that oj jumped the fence or was in the south walkway.The salingers property was examined and no proof was found that oj had been on their property.

Again. Vanhatter and two other detectives examined the bushes and the walkway and testified that no one came through the bushes and jumped that fence.You continue to ignore their testimony.
imo

I'm not ignoring their testimony -- you're simply misinterpreting what was said. you know, I laugh out loud when in one post you say LE (Vanatter especially) can't be trusted and in the next instance, you post your interpretation of the evidence as gospel.

weezer

03-23-2009, 11:38 AM

Weezer

Lee said the miscrope was broken and here you are 13 years later saying it was not broken.hahaha

I think that in most well run labs everything needed for a expert to do tesing on a item is made available for the test. lee said this was not done for him.

microscope wasn't broken. like I said, his rock star status evidently hadn't made it to the labs yet. I mean, you know, those poor guys didn't know he was 'special'! :D

weezer

03-23-2009, 11:42 AM

Weezer

Faye had been freebasing cocain before she moved into Nicole house, which is why her husband kicked her out, during her stay there and according to Nicole causing bad people to come to nicoles house which Nicoel did not like. All of a sudden she ran to the safety of rehab a just a few days later Nicole was killed.
You figure.

I don't know why you keep wanting to dragging Nicole into Faye's and orenthal's drug use. Nicole had been in the Bundy home for a couple of months and Faye had been there two of those weeks. Nicole participated in an intervention to get Faye into rehab so it's dishonest for you to post that she 'ran to the safety'. orenthal was pissed at Nicole when she dumped and then dissed him and years of abuse, stalking, and threatening. Then Nicole was killed. You figure.

weezer

03-23-2009, 11:43 AM

There was no proof that anyone had been in the south walkway at Ronkingham other than Furhman.

of course there was -- kato heard the hard bumps on the wall where orenthal dropped his glove.

martin II

03-23-2009, 11:45 AM

I'm not ignoring their testimony -- you're simply misinterpreting what was said. you know, I laugh out loud when in one post you say LE (Vanatter especially) can't be trusted and in the next instance, you post your interpretation of the evidence as gospel.

Weezer

Not only vanhatter but 2 other detectives testified that no one came through the bushes and jumped the fence at Rockingham.So that is three against Clarke.I have posted their testimony not mine. You and i did not investigate the south walkway. The only person that testimony proves was in the walkway was Furhman. imo

weezer

03-23-2009, 11:46 AM

Or that a blood drop penetrated the leg of the coton sweats to the sock or that oj had a hole in his ankle. What is known is that ojs blood was taken on 6/13 and Vanhatter treated it like it belonged to him, and the socks were not considered until six weeks later.

What i think is that in most well run labs, evidence is received by SID, examined, results recorded
on paper, packaged and sent for more DNA testing or stored for the trial.
The socks were collected on 6/13 examined by Fung by lee, by Matherson and no blood was found.
Then blood was found.

the fact that orenthal's DNA and blood was on his own socks means nothing. the fact that Nicole's fresh blood was on the same socks is incriminating.

pssst -- lee didn't examine the socks until they were already being tested. for you to continue to make the statement is terribly dishonest of you.

martin II

03-23-2009, 11:48 AM

I don't know why you keep wanting to dragging Nicole into Faye's and orenthal's drug use. Nicole had been in the Bundy home for a couple of months and Faye had been there two of those weeks. Nicole participated in an intervention to get Faye into rehab so it's dishonest for you to post that she 'ran to the safety'. orenthal was pissed at Nicole when she dumped and then dissed him and years of abuse, stalking, and threatening. Then Nicole was killed. You figure.

Nicole did arrange the intervention because she wanted this freebaser out of her house to get rid of her and Fays friends that were comming to her house.

weezer

03-23-2009, 11:53 AM

Nicole did arrange the intervention because she wanted this freebaser out of her house to get rid of her and Fays friends that were comming to her house.

Nicole arranged the intervention because obviously that was the type of caring, nurturing person she was. she was able to do for a friend what she obviously had been unsuccessful in doing for orenthal -- get him help for his drug use.

martin II

03-23-2009, 11:54 AM

nope -- blood on the air conditioner or at least lee identified it as possibly blood. of course, the defense wasn't going there --

Possibly blood is not the same as "THERE WAS NOT ENOUGH TO TEST FOR BLOOD" There was no blood found on the air conditioner. Just as there was no blood found in the washing machine. The testimony supports that. imo

martin II

03-23-2009, 12:02 PM

of course there was -- kato heard the hard bumps on the wall where orenthal dropped his glove.

Thats what Kato said he heard.But there was no evidence that oj was there.
In a experiment after the trial a person was stationed in Katos room with the picture at the same place on the wall.Wagner and another person banged against the wall from outside Katos room with their fist to try to shake the picture. Guess what, picture did not move.

03-23-2009, 12:19 PM

I do not believe Faye, I believe Sydney. I believe Sydney would know the difference between her mother's crying and her mother's giggling. I do not believe Faye because she described this phone call as upbeat and all about the future, namely Nicole's future. Faye was only 3 or 4 days into a rehab that she fought against---no one in this stage of withdrawal is "upbeat" and wants to talk to a friend about the friend's bright eye busy tail future. Withdrawel is a horrific experience.

I also believe that if it was Simpson who called and upset Nicole, Sydney would have been on the stand. The DA's never had a trigger that night.

However, I do wonder if perhaps that phone call was from Dr. Ameli. Dr. Ameli also dealt with people who were trying to stay off drugs. Lets, see, a relationship expert and a drug expert, both Ron and Nicole were seeing her and both were in the same group session. I find that interesting.

Dr. Ameli has Nicole shaking in fear of OJ Simpson on the very night that Nicole was murdered but the DA's wanted no part of her and neither did Petrocelli. And that is total hogwash if anyone says that the family didn't want Dr. Ameli to testify because they didn't believe her. Families don't decide which experts DA's use. Families don't decide what witnesses should be used because very often, families do not know every aspect of their loved one's life.

If we are to believe everything we hear, then Nicole could not have gone to her family for help anymore the Ron Goldman could have gone to his. Both the Goldmans and the Browns seemed to have the "you made your bed, now lay in it" attitude.

Before you go insane by replying to this---there is no doubt in my mind that had either of them gone to their parents and laid everything on the line, they would have been helped---even if it was over drugs or something like that. While I am very anti drug, if my child came to me and said that they were in way over their heads and they owed a lot of money, I would give every cent I had to pay them off. IMO, that is not the time to have "tough love" when they are in harms way.GreenIce, I don't recall ever 'going insane' replying to you. I don't know how you made the leap from the phone call(s) that Nicole made or received that night and Ron Goldman not being able to go to his family for help. Help for what?

03-23-2009, 12:20 PM

03-23-2009, 12:21 PM

If you have time read LEES testimony on how the lab was very uncooperative
on what he asked for. I think he said they even gave him a broke microscope to use.imo
I've read his testimony.

03-23-2009, 12:24 PM

She was expecting ron. Did Gilbert say what happened to the knife nicole brought to the door.I doubt Oj simpson told Mike Gilber any such thing.Just Gilber trying to sell that failed book.
Believe what you want. That's what I do.

03-23-2009, 12:31 PM

03-23-2009, 12:32 PM

weezer

03-23-2009, 12:34 PM

weezer

03-23-2009, 12:35 PM

GreenIce, I don't recall ever 'going insane' replying to you. I don't know how you made the leap from the phone call(s) that Nicole made or received that night and Ron Goldman not being able to go to his family for help. Help for what?

the nearest I can figure from the NG's posts are that they somehow believe Ron and Nicole should have done something to help orenthal/Faye with their drug use. :shrug:

03-23-2009, 12:47 PM

the nearest I can figure from the NG's posts are that they somehow believe Ron and Nicole should have done something to help orenthal/Faye with their drug use. :shrug:Maybe that's what they're trying to get across -- not sure. :shrug:

William Anthony

03-23-2009, 12:58 PM

I don't think you understand what was found on the socks and where.

you've been given the picture of the sweatsuit in the washing machine -- thanks to tvdinner. I'm not sure why you feel the need to lie about the testimony and state that ". . .all we know for sure is that LE placed it in there and then it was videoed. . ."

you've also been given Fung's testimony about the blood in the drains. WTH william.

You seem not to understand the testimony, imho, or at least the inferences to be drawn from it. The picture of the sweat suit came from the video, according to my understanding, which was taken after LE handled the sweat suit.

weezer

03-23-2009, 01:02 PM

You seem not to understand the testimony, imho, or at least the inferences to be drawn from it. The picture of the sweat suit came from the video, according to my understanding, which was taken after LE handled the sweat suit.

I understand the testimony completely. you alone have drawn the 'inference' that the video was done after the sweatsuit was handled. that wasn't the case. and if you weren't so anxious to point to the boogey man, you would have realized that by looking at the picture tvdinner supplied.

martin II

03-23-2009, 01:12 PM

the nearest I can figure from the NG's posts are that they somehow believe Ron and Nicole should have done something to help orenthal/Faye with their drug use. :shrug:

I have tried to determine your motive for trying to turn the fact that oj simpson had TRACES of marijuana in his blood to something greater than that. Although you have been corrected many times that traces of marijuana
does not prove that a person has a drug problem unless you have no understanding of drugs. Traces of marijuana means that oj could have smoked
it at anytime from 6/12 to as much as 3-4 weeks prior.According to drug testing labs. There is no information that indicates that a person with traces of marijuana in their blood would be in some kind of drug crazed killing mode.

If you are trying to wrongly influence some thinking here that is one thing but i think it is reckless to continue to post that nonsnse. imo

martin II

03-23-2009, 01:16 PM

Maybe that's what they're trying to get across -- not sure. :shrug:

Nicole did do something. she got fays freebasing butt and her friends out of her house.

OJ had no drug problem.

martin II

03-23-2009, 01:19 PM

The evidence is the glove, martin.

no
the evidence is that a glove was found,the evidence also states that there as no proof that oj was where the glove was found.

weezer

03-23-2009, 01:34 PM

Nicole did do something. she got fays freebasing butt and her friends out of her house.

OJ had no drug problem.

but as it turned out, dumping and dissing orenthal proved to be fatal!

on the night he murdered two human beings, orenthal james simpson had drugs in his system. on the night Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown were murdered by orenthal james simpson, they did not have drugs in their systems. sounds like orenthal had a drug problem to me.

weezer

03-23-2009, 01:37 PM

I have tried to determine your motive for trying to turn the fact that oj simpson had TRACES of marijuana in his blood to something greater than that. Although you have been corrected many times that traces of marijuana
does not prove that a person has a drug problem unless you have no understanding of drugs. Traces of marijuana means that oj could have smoked
it at anytime from 6/12 to as much as 3-4 weeks prior.According to drug testing labs. There is no information that indicates that a person with traces of marijuana in their blood would be in some kind of drug crazed killing mode.

If you are trying to wrongly influence some thinking here that is one thing but i think it is reckless to continue to post that nonsnse. imo

and I understand completely your motive to keep trying to say Ron and Nicole were involved somehow in something to do with drugs. the facts are: on the night orenthal james simpson murdered Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown, hhe had drugs in his system. On the night Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown were murdered by orenthal james simpson, they did not have drugs in their system.

weezer

03-23-2009, 01:38 PM

no
the evidence is that a glove was found,the evidence also states that there as no proof that oj was where the glove was found.

sure it does -- blood and fiber.

William Anthony

03-23-2009, 01:39 PM

I understand the testimony completely. you alone have drawn the 'inference' that the video was done after the sweatsuit was handled. that wasn't the case. and if you weren't so anxious to point to the boogey man, you would have realized that by looking at the picture tvdinner supplied.

I have drawn no inference other than the prosecution failed to show when the video was made and here is Ms. Tvdinner's response about the picture.

From the looks of the position of the sweats I don't think they had yet been handled when the video was made. I don't see what difference it makes if it was before or after since they were never collected or tested anyway. Why is this still from the video not good enough? Several posters doubted such a picture existed or insinuated that Mark Fuhrman manufactured it. Now this picture isn't enough?

I don't point to the boogey man's existence but I do point to the standard of proof required. It is obvious that Ms. Tvdinner did not know if it was before or after LE handled it, only you seem to be so assured. Additionally, I have done a quick word search for drains in DF's testimony and couldn't find where he said he had tested and confirmed that blood was found in the drains. Could you please be so kind as to post it with the date?

weezer

03-23-2009, 01:48 PM

I have drawn no inference other than the prosecution failed to show when the video was made and here is Ms. Tvdinner's response about the picture.

I don't point to the boogey man's existence but I do point to the standard of proof required. It is obvious that Ms. Tvdinner did not know if it was before or after LE handled it, only you seem to be so assured. Additionally, I have done a quick word search for drains in DF's testimony and couldn't find where he said he had tested and confirmed that blood was found in the drains. Could you please be so kind as to post it with the date?

tvdinner didn't testify. it is obvious from looking at the picture that the sweatsuit had not yet been disturbed.

I was sure you knew Fung's testimony by heart -- you are continuously misquoting it. at any rate, his testimony is obviously known and available.

One2Snoop

03-23-2009, 01:57 PM

O/T

If anyone here is interested we have a newbie whose doing research and is looking for some input on the jury decision making process (?)...

http://boards.library.trutv.com/showpost.php?p=9175712&postcount=1

William Anthony

03-23-2009, 02:10 PM

tvdinner didn't testify. it is obvious from looking at the picture that the sweatsuit had not yet been disturbed.

I was sure you knew Fung's testimony by heart -- you are continuously misquoting it. at any rate, his testimony is obviously known and available.

It is not obvious to me and the only thing that is obvious to me is that the sweat suit was placed in the washing machine and LE admitted to it. There seem to be some folks in some communities that do not believe LE can ever act in a manner untoward.

You made the claim about DF's testimony as you have about the pigeon toed shoe prints, some folks in some communities and, again I feel compelled to ask you to support your claim. I will not hold my breath waiting for the support so don't get too happy.:)

William Anthony

03-23-2009, 02:18 PM

tvdinner didn't testify. it is obvious from looking at the picture that the sweatsuit had not yet been disturbed.

I was sure you knew Fung's testimony by heart -- you are continuously misquoting it. at any rate, his testimony is obviously known and available.

We know for a fact that one LE member was convicted of testifying falsely under oath and another was admonished for having a reckless disregard for the truth but this does not seem to matter to some folks in some communities and, perhaps, it would have been better if Ms. Tvdinner would have testified.

martin II

03-23-2009, 02:22 PM

and I understand completely your motive to keep trying to say Ron and Nicole were involved somehow in something to do with drugs. the facts are: on the night orenthal james simpson murdered Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown, hhe had drugs in his system. On the night Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown were murdered by orenthal james simpson, they did not have drugs in their system.

Any report about rons and nicoles involvement with drugs came from published reports available to anyone.

martin II

03-23-2009, 02:26 PM

weezer

03-23-2009, 02:36 PM

It is not obvious to me and the only thing that is obvious to me is that the sweat suit was placed in the washing machine and LE admitted to it. There seem to be some folks in some communities that do not believe LE can ever act in a manner untoward.

You made the claim about DF's testimony as you have about the pigeon toed shoe prints, some folks in some communities and, again I feel compelled to ask you to support your claim. I will not hold my breath waiting for the support so don't get too happy.:)

LE stated they REPLACED the sweatsuit after filming it.

I'm not making a claim about DF's testimony -- I related his testimony. you are disputing what I said. you need to disprove my statement if you feel that strongly.

weezer

03-23-2009, 02:38 PM

We know for a fact that one LE member was convicted of testifying falsely under oath and another was admonished for having a reckless disregard for the truth but this does not seem to matter to some folks in some communities and, perhaps, it would have been better if Ms. Tvdinner would have testified.

big whoop -- Mark Fuhrman is a liar.

psst -- it was the defense who were sanctioned for blatant disregard for the truth. it was the defense who were told that the evidence did not support their allegations of planting.

weezer

03-23-2009, 02:40 PM

Any report about rons and nicoles involvement with drugs came from published reports available to anyone.

nah -- it was gossip by the NG's who needed to divert talk away from orenthal's bad behavior and vices. because remember, on the night he murdered Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown, orenthal james simpson had drugs in his system. on the night Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown were murdered by orenthal james simpson, they did NOT have drugs in their system.

weezer

03-23-2009, 02:41 PM

exactlly how did fung examine the swets and found no blood if they were never taken out of the washer?

don't you remember the testimony? 'freshly washed' come to mind?

martin II

03-23-2009, 02:45 PM

You seem hung up on Faye free-basing cocaine. What is that supposed to prove even if it's true? Are you saying everyone that uses cocaine is targeted by drug lords?

NO

What i am saying is that fayes husband kicked her out because of her drug use.She moved to nicoles and continued to freebase cocain.Daily. She did not work and had no income.Yet people that nicole did not like or freightened her came to nicoles house to see Faye. She could not be freebasing cocain daily without money or creidt from someone. Now it may be that she was hitting Nicole up for money i don't know. I doubt a supplier was giving her drugs free.Faye in her deposition tried to say that she did not know freebasing involved cocain But was forced to admit that was not true.Then she estimated that she was spending only $20.00 a day for the drug. That was a lie.

When Nicole began to tell Faye that she needed to be in rehab faye said she would go if Nicole would go with her. Nicole told her she, nicole, did not need to go to no rehab.

Nicole then arranged to get faye out of her house and into rehab because she had no place to go. So yes i believe she left with drug money owed to her supplier and it is possible that they would come to nicoles looking for Faye
not knowing she had run to the rehab.imo

William Anthony

03-23-2009, 02:45 PM

LE stated they REPLACED the sweatsuit after filming it.

I'm not making a claim about DF's testimony -- I related his testimony. you are disputing what I said. you need to disprove my statement if you feel that strongly.

I understand what LE's testimony was and what I am asking you is where is the evidence to support that testimony, just like I am asking you where is the evidence to support your claim as to what DF's testimony was.

William Anthony

03-23-2009, 02:47 PM

big whoop -- Mark Fuhrman is a liar.

psst -- it was the defense who were sanctioned for blatant disregard for the truth. it was the defense who were told that the evidence did not support their allegations of planting.

Is this the way some folks in some communities who do not accept that LE can do something untoward defend LE, if you know? Lighthearted banter, lighthearted banter, remember, smile?

martin II

03-23-2009, 02:47 PM

don't you remember the testimony? 'freshly washed' come to mind?

Freshly washed means nothing. Fung would have had to hold the sweats up or out of the machine to examine them to know there was no blood on them.

William Anthony

03-23-2009, 02:56 PM

Freshly washed means nothing. Fung would have had to hold the sweats up or out of the machine to examine them to know there was no blood on them.

IIRC, there was a picture of DF holding the sweat suit outside of the washer.

fgump2

03-23-2009, 03:01 PM

Thats what Kato said he heard.But there was no evidence that oj was there.
In a experiment after the trial a person was stationed in Katos room with the picture at the same place on the wall.Wagner and another person banged against the wall from outside Katos room with their fist to try to shake the picture. Guess what, picture did not move.

************************************************** *******
I don't think that whether or not the picture moved was important. Most criminologists (and memory experts) think that most people are innacurate observers under the best of circumstances, and since Kato was startled while talking on the phone with a friend, his powers of observation would probably not have been very good. The key thing here, is whether or not there was at least one hard thump against the wall. If you believe that Kato imagined it, then it is a rather strange coincidence that it happened just minutes before OJ and the bronco appeared, maybe less than minutes. There is no evidence that Kato had hallucinations.

I thought that the falling air conditoner could have contributed to the thumping noise, but the trial transcrips don't support this. I find it easy to think Kato's memory could have converted 2 bumps to 3, but it would be harder to convert 1 bump to 3. He might have been balancing on a chair without realizing it. I have seen people do that while talking on the phone. If he was startled, he could have fallen, and could have thought that noise was a second bump.

The not guilty people seem to think that the pro guilty people should explain everything; how blood got on OJS's socks, why Kato heard 3 bumps, whether the picture really moved.

weezer

03-23-2009, 03:03 PM

Is this the way some folks in some communities who do not accept that LE can do something untoward defend LE, if you know? Lighthearted banter, lighthearted banter, remember, smile?

nah - this is the way some folks in some communities accept fact: just like the judge said -- it takes a leap in logic to say there was planting of evidence.

I merely acknoweldged the fact that Fuhrman was convicted perjurer -- big whoop.

weezer

03-23-2009, 03:05 PM

Freshly washed means nothing. Fung would have had to hold the sweats up or out of the machine to examine them to know there was no blood on them.

and they did -- they took a video of the sweatsuit in the washer and then held them up. is there something about this that you find especially hard to comprehend? is there another way I can explain it to help you?

weezer

03-23-2009, 03:07 PM

************************************************** *******
I don't think that whether or not the picture moved was important. Most criminologists (and memory experts) think that most people are innacurate observers under the best of circumstances, and since Kato was startled while talking on the phone with a friend, his powers of observation would probably not have been very good. The key thing here, is whether or not there was at least one hard thump against the wall. If you believe that Kato imagined it, then it is a rather strange coincidence that it happened just minutes before OJ and the bronco appeared, maybe less than minutes. There is no evidence that Kato had hallucinations.

I thought that the falling air conditoner could have contributed to the thumping noise, but the trial transcrips don't support this. I find it easy to think Kato's memory could have converted 2 bumps to 3, but it would be harder to convert 1 bump to 3. He might have been balancing on a chair without realizing it. I have seen people do that while talking on the phone. If he was startled, he could have fallen, and could have thought that noise was a second bump.

The not guilty people seem to think that the pro guilty people should explain everything; how blood got on OJS's socks, why Kato heard 3 bumps, whether the picture really moved.

kato testified he was laying in bed when he was talking on the phone and, IIRC, 'felt' the thumps -- not 'heard' the thumps.

William Anthony

03-23-2009, 03:25 PM

and they did -- they took a video of the sweatsuit in the washer and then held them up. is there something about this that you find especially hard to comprehend? is there another way I can explain it to help you?

Link please to they took a video of the sweatsuit in the washer and then held them up?

William Anthony

03-23-2009, 03:26 PM

kato testified he was laying in bed when he was talking on the phone and, IIRC, 'felt' the thumps -- not 'heard' the thumps.

WTH? Don't you remember Kato beating on the desk trying to imitate the sound of the thumps. I understand that we all forget what the actual testimony was.

weezer

03-23-2009, 03:33 PM

Link please to they took a video of the sweatsuit in the washer and then held them up?

you're growing tiresome william. look at the picture tvdinner posted -- then look at the picture you said you remembered. see? not so hard.

martin II

03-23-2009, 03:39 PM

tv

here is the link to Vanhattet aking thje bag from oj when he returned from chicago
i hope the enlargement works.

http://www.smartfellowspress.com/missing_bags.htm

martin II

03-23-2009, 04:09 PM

you're growing tiresome william. look at the picture tvdinner posted -- then look at the picture you said you remembered. see? not so hard.

A picture was posted what looked like something black inside the washing machine.I was waiting for you to post a picture of fung holding the item up so i could see it was a sweat suite When he determined that there was no blood on it. imo

martin II

03-23-2009, 04:11 PM

tv

here is the link to Vanhattet taking the bag from oj when he returned from chicago
i hope the enlargement works.

http://www.smartfellowspress.com/missing_bags.htm

it works for me
martin

martin II

03-23-2009, 04:14 PM

WTH? Don't you remember Kato beating on the desk trying to imitate the sound of the thumps. I understand that we all forget what the actual testimony was.

Kato did beat on the witness stand and made voice noise to demostrate what he said he heard
Then in the civil trial he changed the sound and said it sounded like a body against the wall again with voice noise.

martin II

03-23-2009, 04:18 PM

kato testified he was laying in bed when he was talking on the phone and, IIRC, 'felt' the thumps -- not 'heard' the thumps.

Absolutely wrong. Maby you meed to review his testimony and then post.

weezer

03-23-2009, 04:19 PM

A picture was posted what looked like something black inside the washing machine.I was waiting for you to post a picture of fung holding the item up so i could see it was a sweat suite When he determined that there was no blood on it. imo

ask william for the link to the picture. he wasn't looking for blood on it.

martin II

03-23-2009, 04:32 PM

ask william for the link to the picture. he wasn't looking for blood on it.

You are the one that have claimed that william and i have posted wrong. So post the picture and clear this up.

weezer

03-23-2009, 04:44 PM

You are the one that have claimed that william and i have posted wrong. So post the picture and clear this up.

WTH -- the matter is clear to me -- you guys are having the problems.

weezer

03-23-2009, 04:45 PM

Absolutely wrong. Maby you meed to review his testimony and then post.

absolutely right. kato testified that he was laying on his bed, propped against the wall. if you have links to testimony different than this, then you need to post it. if not, we can assume that you once again are misinterpreting the evidence.

martin II

03-23-2009, 04:48 PM

martin II

03-23-2009, 04:53 PM

absolutely right. kato testified that he was laying on his bed, propped against the wall. if you have links to testimony different than this, then you need to post it. if not, we can assume that you once again are misinterpreting the evidence.

Are suggesting that in the criminal while on the witness stand Kato did not bang his hand on the stand and make noises to demonstrate what the bangs sounded like?
I saw him do this.But since you have stated that you did not see any live
broadcast of the trial, you may have missed his demo.

martin II

03-23-2009, 04:55 PM

weezer

03-23-2009, 05:00 PM

William Anthony

03-23-2009, 05:05 PM

you're growing tiresome william. look at the picture tvdinner posted -- then look at the picture you said you remembered. see? not so hard.

There is no need for you to get tired, just post the picture of DF pulling the sweat suit from the washing machine.

weezer

03-23-2009, 05:07 PM

There is no need for you to get tired, just post the picture of DF pulling the sweat suit from the washing machine.

I never understand why you feel the need to take your posts to this level. I'm not posting a picture of Fung pulling sweats from the washing machine. I never said there was a picture of Fung pulling sweats from the washing machine. This is just another example of the NG's not able to accept fact.

William Anthony

03-23-2009, 05:08 PM

Are suggesting that in the criminal while on the witness stand Kato did not bang his hand on the stand and make noises to demonstrate what the bangs sounded like?
I saw him do this.But since you have stated that you did not see any live
broadcast of the trial, you may have missed his demo.

I was unaware that she had not seen any live feed from the trial. No wonder she is so easily tired.:)

weezer

03-23-2009, 05:08 PM

Are suggesting that in the criminal while on the witness stand Kato did not bang his hand on the stand and make noises to demonstrate what the bangs sounded like?
I saw him do this.But since you have stated that you did not see any live
broadcast of the trial, you may have missed his demo.

yep -- some folks in some communities had to work during that time. :eek:

William Anthony

03-23-2009, 05:13 PM

I never understand why you feel the need to take your posts to this level. I'm not posting a picture of Fung pulling sweats from the washing machine. I never said there was a picture of Fung pulling sweats from the washing machine. This is just another example of the NG's not able to accept fact.

I reiterate for the umpteenth time that I am not a NG but a reasonable doubter. In view of my view of DF's willingness to slant his testimony to favor the prosecution, I would think that a picture of the sweats in the washing machine before he examined them, a picture of him examining them and a picture of the sweats back in the washing machine would end our discussion. As you are unable to provide any such evidence, I remain firm in my stance on the fact that the prosecution failed miserably to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt, as we are left with unsupported testimony that there was a sweat in the washing machine before it was examined or that the sweat suit belonged to Simpson or had anything to do with the murders. Have you found DF's testimony that he found blood in the drains?

William Anthony

03-23-2009, 05:15 PM

yep -- some folks in some communities had to work during that time. :eek:

Some folks in some communities owned vcrs that they could record the trial and view after work, but they also got some commercials. :)

martin II

03-23-2009, 05:16 PM

absolutely right. kato testified that he was laying on his bed, propped against the wall. if you have links to testimony different than this, then you need to post it. if not, we can assume that you once again are misinterpreting the evidence.

Katos testimony about noise he heard.

Q: OKAY. AND THE FIRST TIME YOU SAW THAT KNAPSACK WAS WHEN?

A: I THINK IT WAS MY SECOND TIME AFTER I CHECKED BACK ON THE -- FROM WHEN I WENT UP TO THE WALKWAY, THE PATHWAY, WHERE I HEARD THE THUMPING NOISE. THAT IS WHEN I FIRST

martin II

03-23-2009, 05:18 PM

yep -- some folks in some communities had to work during that time. :eek:

Well if you did not see the testimony and evidence in the trial how did you get to be the expert. not from media sound bites i hope.

weezer

03-23-2009, 05:19 PM

I reiterate for the umpteenth time that I am not a NG but a reasonable doubter. In view of my view of DF's willingness to slant his testimony to favor the prosecution, I would think that a picture of the sweats in the washing machine before he examined them, a picture of him examining them and a picture of the sweats back in the washing machine would end our discussion. As you are unable to provide any such evidence, I remain firm in my stance on the fact that the prosecution failed miserably to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt, as we are left with unsupported testimony that there was a sweat in the washing machine before it was examined or that the sweat suit belonged to Simpson or had anything to do with the murders. Have you found DF's testimony that he found blood in the drains?

this is a stupid argument simply because you want to blame the boogey man. the fact is there is video of the sweatsuit in the washer and being held up by LE. now whether or not you want to accept that, I can't help.

I said what Fung's testimony was regarding the blood in orenthal's bathroom drain -- it is a matter of record. If you believe what I posted to be inaccurate, prove it.

weezer

03-23-2009, 05:20 PM

katos testimony about noise he heard.

Q: Okay. And the first time you saw that knapsack was when?

A: I think it was my second time after i checked back on the -- from when i went up to the walkway, the pathway, where i heard the thumping noise. That is when i first

lol --

weezer

03-23-2009, 05:21 PM

Well if you did not see the testimony and evidence in the trial how did you get to be the expert. not from media sound bites i hope.

I read and I researched. you should try it sometime.

William Anthony

03-23-2009, 05:22 PM

this is a stupid argument simply because you want to blame the boogey man. the fact is there is video of the sweatsuit in the washer and being held up by LE. now whether or not you want to accept that, I can't help.

I said what Fung's testimony was regarding the blood in orenthal's bathroom drain -- it is a matter of record. If you believe what I posted to be inaccurate, prove it.

Unlike you, I do not accuse people of being dishonest and I simply asked you to support your claim and I have told you that I cannot find your claim anywhere in DF's testimony. Just like you say Kato never heard the thumps, but that is not accurate.

"Q: AT THE TIME THAT YOU HEARD THE THREE THUMPS, CAN YOU TELL US WHETHER OR NOT YOUR BATHROOM WINDOW WAS OPENED?

A: I DON'T THINK IT WAS OPEN. I USUALLY DON'T HAVE IT OPENED.

Q: SO YOU DON'T THINK IT WAS THAT NIGHT?

A: PROBABLY NOT. "

Much of your conclusion may be based on what others say rather than the testimony in your reading and research. DF's testimony that he found blood in any drain on Simpson's property, how about that Ms. Fbgweezer?

martin II

03-23-2009, 05:23 PM

I was unaware that she had not seen any live feed from the trial. No wonder she is so easily tired.:)

Not one day of either witness for either side. did not see the expression of furhamn when baily got finished with him.Nor the confused look on Mazzolas face ot fung when Schak asked him 'WHAT ABOUT THAT MR FUNG"
Actually did not see live the black salute.

martin II

03-23-2009, 05:54 PM

martin II

03-23-2009, 05:59 PM

but his testimony was that he did and orenthal's and kato's testimony backs up his arrival and coming thorugh the gate.

Park could not see the first floor lights for the trees and bushes. The jury went to rockingham and saw the same trees which is why they had the court to read back his testinmony and realized he could not have seen what he said he saw.imo

martin II

03-23-2009, 06:20 PM

lol --

Since you stated that Kato did not testify to hearing any noise i will give you his testimony in his words.

Q: WOULD YOU LOOK AT PAGE 18. IT'S ON PAGE 18. MY QUESTION TO YOU WAS: "HOW MUCH TIME ELAPSED BETWEEN HEARING THE NOISE AND SEEING O.J.," REFERRING TO O.J. SIMPSON.

A: RIGHT.

Q: DO YOU SEE WHERE THAT IS?

A: UH-HUH. YES, I DO.

Q: AND DO YOU SEE WHAT YOUR ANSWER IS?

A: YEAH. IT'S --

Q: DOES THAT REFRESH YOUR MEMORY AS TO WHAT YOU TOLD ME ON TUESDAY?

A: THE -- THE -- THAT'S PART OF IT.

Q: OKAY. WHAT -- WHAT -- WHAT DID -- WHAT DID -- WHAT DID YOU SAY ON TUESDAY? THAT'S MY QUESTION.

A: THAT I WAS --

MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. THAT'S ASKED AND ANSWERED, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

THE WITNESS: IT -- IT SAYS ABOUT THREE TO FIVE MINUTES.

Q: BY MR. SHAPIRO: AND WHAT ELSE DOES IT SAY?

A: BECAUSE THAT'S WHEN I RAN OUT AND SAW THE LIMO, AND I TOLD HER IMMEDIATELY THAT I -- I TOLD HER I GOT TO CHECK THIS OUT, CHECK OUT THIS NOISE. I TALKED TO HER FOR MAYBE ANOTHER MINUTE OR SO CONVINCING MYSELF THAT I WAS GOING TO GO OUT THERE.

Q: DID YOU NOTICE AT
-------------

Now do you believe it??

martin II

03-23-2009, 06:26 PM

I read and I researched. you should try it sometime.

I don't think you could SEE what the jury saw by reading a book.

weezer

03-23-2009, 08:05 PM

Not one day of either witness for either side. did not see the expression of furhamn when baily got finished with him.Nor the confused look on Mazzolas face ot fung when Schak asked him 'WHAT ABOUT THAT MR FUNG"
Actually did not see live the black salute.

now there you go again martin -- assuming things that you don't know anything about.

Hipcheck

03-23-2009, 08:05 PM

martin II

03-23-2009, 08:08 PM

now there you go again martin -- assuming things that you don't know anything about.

you do realize that kato testified he heard knocks right,

my point it that one needs to see the demeanor of the witness to evaluate the truth of the testimony, books cannot give this.

weezer

03-23-2009, 08:10 PM

park could not see the first floor lights for the trees and bushes. The jury went to rockingham and saw the same trees which is why they had the court to read back his testinmony and realized he could not have seen what he said he saw.imo

mr. Park: He also asked -- because i told him there was no lights on downstairs -- he asked me to look at the pantry area, what he called a pantry area where there was what resembled some sunroofs or skylighting toward the garage area and he asked me if there was any lights on in there.

Ms. Clark: Okay.

Mr. Park: He said he usually watches t.v. In there.

******
ms. Clark: All right. And did you do what he asked you to do? Did you look?

Mr. Park: Yes.

Ms. Clark: And did you see any lights on in that area?

Mr. Park: No, i didn't.

weezer

03-23-2009, 08:12 PM

Ms. Clark: When that person walked into the entrance of the house, did you notice whether there was any change in the lighting in the house?

Mr. Park: Some lights came on downstairs, yes.

weezer

03-23-2009, 08:13 PM

Ms. Clark: And did you have a conversation with mr. Kaelin about an earthquake?

Mr. Park: Yes. He asked me if i felt one.

martin II

03-23-2009, 08:13 PM

weezer

03-23-2009, 08:16 PM

I have a question I was wondering with anyone can answer. I have been reading here and seen where someone said that O.J. had never been arrested for assualting Nicole.

My question is wasn't O.J. arrested one time for spousal assault on Nicole?

I thought he was but I could be wrong.

he pleaded guilty and received a very light sentence which was to include community service. he wasn't arrested as he ran from the police and sent his buddy ac over to get his black bag from the garbage can where he'd stashed it.

martin II

03-23-2009, 08:21 PM

Ms. Clark: When that person walked into the entrance of the house, did you notice whether there was any change in the lighting in the house?

Mr. Park: Some lights came on downstairs, yes.
The jury looked at the bushes to the left of the door,they said Park could not see what he said he saw.They did not believe him

weezer

03-23-2009, 08:22 PM

There was a 1998 abuse.

she was dead by 1998.

weezer

03-23-2009, 08:24 PM

Wrong

fung testified he did presumptive test. he never did the required test to prove blood.

you need to tell william -- he doesn't believe that happened.

martin II

03-23-2009, 08:25 PM

you need to tell william -- he doesn't believe that happened.

no blood was found in any drain

weezer

03-23-2009, 08:26 PM

The jury looked at the bushes to the left of the door,they said Park could not see what he said he saw.They did not believe him

and they didn't understand the DNA but believed the gloves fit and yet they still let him off. I don't know what to tell you. :shrug:

martin II

03-23-2009, 08:27 PM

she was dead by 1998.

Sorry
1989

weezer

03-23-2009, 08:27 PM

no blood was found in any drain

sure there was -- in orenthal's bathroom drain at Rockingham.

martin II

03-23-2009, 08:35 PM

ms. Clark: And did you have a conversation with mr. Kaelin about an earthquake?

Mr. Park: Yes. He asked me if i felt one.

a: Because that's when i ran out and saw the limo, and i told her immediately that i -- i told her i got to check this out, check out this noise i talked to her for maybe another minute or so convincing myself that i was going to go out there.

Q: Did you notice at

weezer

03-23-2009, 08:46 PM

a: Because that's when i ran out and saw the limo, and i told her immediately that i -- i told her i got to check this out, check out this noise i talked to her for maybe another minute or so convincing myself that i was going to go out there.

Q: Did you notice at

I'm thinking 'kato-speak' since I'm having a hard time picturing a 'noise' shake a wall and move a picture on on it.

martin II

03-23-2009, 08:47 PM

Q: Now, on june the 13th then, after you -- strike that. When you spoke to the police, you told them about the bangs on your wall?

A: I did.

Q: And you told them you heard those bangs about 10:45?

A: Yes.

Q: And did you also tell them that you had gone out twice to investigate the source of those noises?

A: Yes.

weezer

03-23-2009, 08:48 PM

Ms. Clark: So at approximately 10:40 to 10:45, when you heard the thumps and you saw the picture move, what did you do?
Mr. Kaelin: Well, i was on the phone still and i was talking to rachel and i thought -- i said to rachel -- i asked her, "did we just have an earthquake?"

weezer

03-23-2009, 08:49 PM

Mr. Kaelin: Well, i know i asked him about the -- if we had an earthquake, and he said, "no, not that i am aware of. I have been sitting there and i didn't feel anything move,"

martin II

03-23-2009, 08:50 PM

I'm thinking 'kato-speak' since I'm having a hard time picturing a 'noise' shake a wall and move a picture on on it.

kATO said he HEARD three bangs on his wall felt the vibration and noticed the picture move,

That is plain english.

weezer

03-23-2009, 08:52 PM

kATO said he HEARD three bangs on his wall felt the vibration and noticed the picture move,

That is plain english.

thank you.

William Anthony

03-23-2009, 09:09 PM

you need to tell william -- he doesn't believe that happened.

Martin does not need to tell me anything as I understand the difference between a presumptive test and someone testifying they found blood, as I understand the difference between hearing and feeling and remember lighthearted banter, lighthearted banter, smile.

martin II

03-23-2009, 09:11 PM

\
q: Okay. You indicated that -- you indicated that you were planning to get together that night, but you didn't?

A: Right.

Q: Why not?

A: Because -- well, because the noise happened or the bang happened.

martin II

03-23-2009, 09:20 PM

sure there was -- in orenthal's bathroom drain at Rockingham.

Last time weezer
that was a presumptive test not a test to confirm blood in the drain
by now i think you should know this.
I cannot help you with this more.

weezer

03-23-2009, 09:26 PM

Last time weezer
that was a presumptive test not a test to confirm blood in the drain
by now i think you should know this.
I cannot help you with this more.

". . .In testimony, criminalist Dennis Fung on redirect examination told the jury that he conducted a presumptive test for blood in Simpson's sink and shower. Both those tests, Fung said, were positive. . ."

GreenIce

03-23-2009, 09:38 PM

Nicole did arrange the intervention because she wanted this freebaser out of her house to get rid of her and Fays friends that were comming to her house.

Martin,

It was Christen R., Faye's boyfriend. Nicole wanted to put it off for a few days but CR said it was he who pushed for it right away. I don't know who else was at the intervention and what they have to say about it but CR says he is the one who pushed for it.

GreenIce

03-23-2009, 09:58 PM

GreenIce, I don't recall ever 'going insane' replying to you. I don't know how you made the leap from the phone call(s) that Nicole made or received that night and Ron Goldman not being able to go to his family for help. Help for what?

TV,

No, you never have "gone insane", I was just trying to explain why I feel that while it has been protrayed in the press that Ron and Nicole could not go to their families for help, I believe that when it came to certain issues, they could have and would have been helped. Kim and Ron had a falling out a few months before the murders and Mr. Goldman made the decision that a few nights in jail might wake Ron up. However, these events do not mean had they could not have gone to their families for help.

The point about the phone calls is that Dr. Ameli says she called Nicole that night because Nicole apparently was going to confront Simpson. She said that Nicole was pertrified that Simpson would not let her get away with it and he was coming for her that night. Dr. Ameli suggested that Nicole call a friend to stay with her until Simpson left for the airport. Could Nicole have been crying during this phone call? Could be. Instead of anger, did Sydney hear fear? Was Dr. Ameli's suggestion of calling a friend to stay with her awhile the reason why Ron parked down the street---maybe he was going to stay at Nicole's until Simpson left for the airport.

I think this phone call between Faye and Nicole is critical, it is the time of this phone call is what makes it so important. Faye and her lawyers were able to block the defense from getting the records of a public telephone inside the facility that Faye was in. Faye gave at least 3 different times that the phone call took place. The final time would have made it impossible for her to know that Ron was coming over with the glasses. However, she did know that Nicole saw Marcus that day or was going to see him that night. Again, how would she know this?

Dr. Ameli treats people who are drug addicted or feel they are well on their way to the rock bottom. She also is a relationship expert. Why were Nicole and Ron seeing her? Was it for drugs, relationship issues? However, it was important enough for her offices to be broken into, to be threatened not to talk about Simpson or Goldman. Apparently someone called her office, wanted to buy Ron and Nicole's records for several thousand dollars, she said she couldn't and she called some board to report it.

There are certain subjects or names in this case that if you just mention them, has a tendency to drive some people bonkers before they finish reading the post.

GreenIce

03-23-2009, 10:17 PM

Any report about rons and nicoles involvement with drugs came from published reports available to anyone.

Martin,

I agree with your post, but I would like to add something to it. Just because drugs were not found in Ron's or Nicole's system, that does not mean they did not have a "drug problem". I know very little about the drug culture but I do know that every drug dealer is warned to sell the junk--don't use it. It is bad for business.

In American Tragedy, it says that Nicole's nose did show signs of cocaine abuse. However, Simpson was admanent that they not go down this road. I think in Simpson's depositon they also stayed away from this subject--which I think this is the only time Petrocelli, Simpson and Kelley agreed on anything.

fgump2

03-23-2009, 11:50 PM

william

look at the picture of ojs house. notice how thick the hedges were on 6/13 that ran from the street.

Also look at all the trees and hedges to the left of the door that covered the windows on the first floor.I doubt Park could have seen any inside first floor
lights come on.

******************************************
It would be hard to make a judgment on that unless the people making the judgment (jury) were there at night and had the lights turn on and off. Trying to figure out whether or not light would get through certain bushes at night is pretty hard to do if you see it only during the day.

One part of the criminal jury opinion that amazed me was when at least one of the jurors said she didn't think M.F. could have seen blood on and in the Bronco at night. To make this kind of judgment the juror would have had to be there that night. On subsequent nights it wouldn't be possible to reproduce either the bronco's condition or the lighting conditions of that night. By the time the jurors were seated, the blood had dried and much of it had been removed for testing. I think the defenses arguments about what blood MF could have seen that night would be enough to put anyone to sleep. Of course a lot of the prosecution's talk was a pointless also.

Wandering off the subject a bit. I have made some inaccurate postings partly because I thought some I understood some things about the trial, which I later realized were wrong. As I read the transcripts, I found myself thinking 'How on earth could anyone watch the trail and stay awake?'. This is partly an apology for any inaccurate postings I may have made.

fgump2

03-23-2009, 11:57 PM

TV,

No, you never have "gone insane", I was just trying to explain why I feel that while it has been protrayed in the press that Ron and Nicole could not go to their families for help, I believe that when it came to certain issues, they could have and would have been helped. Kim and Ron had a falling out a few months before the murders and Mr. Goldman made the decision that a few nights in jail might wake Ron up. However, these events do not mean had they could not have gone to their families for help.

The point about the phone calls is that Dr. Ameli says she called Nicole that night because Nicole apparently was going to confront Simpson. She said that Nicole was pertrified that Simpson would not let her get away with it and he was coming for her that night. Dr. Ameli suggested that Nicole call a friend to stay with her until Simpson left for the airport. Could Nicole have been crying during this phone call? Could be. Instead of anger, did Sydney hear fear? Was Dr. Ameli's suggestion of calling a friend to stay with her awhile the reason why Ron parked down the street---maybe he was going to stay at Nicole's until Simpson left for the airport.

I think this phone call between Faye and Nicole is critical, it is the time of this phone call is what makes it so important. Faye and her lawyers were able to block the defense from getting the records of a public telephone inside the facility that Faye was in. Faye gave at least 3 different times that the phone call took place. The final time would have made it impossible for her to know that Ron was coming over with the glasses. However, she did know that Nicole saw Marcus that day or was going to see him that night. Again, how would she know this?

Dr. Ameli treats people who are drug addicted or feel they are well on their way to the rock bottom. She also is a relationship expert. Why were Nicole and Ron seeing her? Was it for drugs, relationship issues? However, it was important enough for her offices to be broken into, to be threatened not to talk about Simpson or Goldman. Apparently someone called her office, wanted to buy Ron and Nicole's records for several thousand dollars, she said she couldn't and she called some board to report it.

There are certain subjects or names in this case that if you just mention them, has a tendency to drive some people bonkers before they finish reading the post.
*************************************
I think Dr Ameli was a fake, although Petrocelli believed her. I don't think there was a paper trail connecting Dr Ameli with either Ron or Nicole. Dr Ameli said she had an explanation for it; Ron paid in cash and some other excuse for Nicole, maybe she was going to pay later through her insurance co. Also I think the LA police dept said they thought the break in was a fake.
I realize I could be wrong on this.

martin II

03-24-2009, 12:12 AM

". . .In testimony, criminalist Dennis Fung on redirect examination told the jury that he conducted a presumptive test for blood in Simpson's sink and shower. Both those tests, Fung said, were positive. . ."

I posted a link explaining Presumptive test.

A presumptive tes can show positive for possible being blood. The next step has to done to positively prove blood. fung did not do the last test.

martin II

03-24-2009, 12:23 AM

******************************************
It would be hard to make a judgment on that unless the people making the judgment (jury) were there at night and had the lights turn on and off. Trying to figure out whether or not light would get through certain bushes at night is pretty hard to do if you see it only during the day.

One part of the criminal jury opinion that amazed me was when at least one of the jurors said she didn't think M.F. could have seen blood on and in the Bronco at night. To make this kind of judgment the juror would have had to be there that night. On subsequent nights it wouldn't be possible to reproduce either the bronco's condition or the lighting conditions of that night. By the time the jurors were seated, the blood had dried and much of it had been removed for testing. I think the defenses arguments about what blood MF could have seen that night would be enough to put anyone to sleep. Of course a lot of the prosecution's talk was a pointless also.

Wandering off the subject a bit. I have made some inaccurate postings partly because I thought some I understood some things about the trial, which I later realized were wrong. As I read the transcripts, I found myself thinking 'How on earth could anyone watch the trail and stay awake?'. This is partly an apology for any inaccurate postings I may have made.

Standing at the ashford gate and observing the trees and bushes covering the first floor it was obvious that Park was wrong.

It was not possible for Furhman to see the blood in the bronco door rocker panel with the door closed.

The jury saw the pictures of the blood in the bronco.

martin II

03-24-2009, 12:25 AM

martin II

03-24-2009, 12:28 AM

martin II

03-24-2009, 12:31 AM

martin II

03-24-2009, 12:33 AM

GreenIce

03-24-2009, 06:27 AM

******************************************
It would be hard to make a judgment on that unless the people making the judgment (jury) were there at night and had the lights turn on and off. Trying to figure out whether or not light would get through certain bushes at night is pretty hard to do if you see it only during the day.

One part of the criminal jury opinion that amazed me was when at least one of the jurors said she didn't think M.F. could have seen blood on and in the Bronco at night. To make this kind of judgment the juror would have had to be there that night. On subsequent nights it wouldn't be possible to reproduce either the bronco's condition or the lighting conditions of that night. By the time the jurors were seated, the blood had dried and much of it had been removed for testing. I think the defenses arguments about what blood MF could have seen that night would be enough to put anyone to sleep. Of course a lot of the prosecution's talk was a pointless also.

Wandering off the subject a bit. I have made some inaccurate postings partly because I thought some I understood some things about the trial, which I later realized were wrong. As I read the transcripts, I found myself thinking 'How on earth could anyone watch the trail and stay awake?'. This is partly an apology for any inaccurate postings I may have made.

fgump2,

IMO, the DA's dragged out their case as much as they could have. There is solid evidence, IMO, to prove this. Again, IMO, they did this because they were still waiting for murder weapon, clothes and shoes to show up.

The LAPD and the DA's could account for Simpson's where abouts from 11:00 p.m. on. It is clear that they did not believe that he took any of the evidence with him to Chicago or that he would bring any of it back with him. IMO, this is when they realized that if Simpson is the killer, he had to have help, at least getting rid of the knife, shoes and clothes.

It is amazing how people take some evidence and take it has hard proven facts that both sides stipulated to it. The DA's did a great job with what they had, IMO.

William Anthony

03-24-2009, 06:30 AM

******************************************
It would be hard to make a judgment on that unless the people making the judgment (jury) were there at night and had the lights turn on and off. Trying to figure out whether or not light would get through certain bushes at night is pretty hard to do if you see it only during the day.

One part of the criminal jury opinion that amazed me was when at least one of the jurors said she didn't think M.F. could have seen blood on and in the Bronco at night. To make this kind of judgment the juror would have had to be there that night. On subsequent nights it wouldn't be possible to reproduce either the bronco's condition or the lighting conditions of that night. By the time the jurors were seated, the blood had dried and much of it had been removed for testing. I think the defenses arguments about what blood MF could have seen that night would be enough to put anyone to sleep. Of course a lot of the prosecution's talk was a pointless also.

Wandering off the subject a bit. I have made some inaccurate postings partly because I thought some I understood some things about the trial, which I later realized were wrong. As I read the transcripts, I found myself thinking 'How on earth could anyone watch the trail and stay awake?'. This is partly an apology for any inaccurate postings I may have made.

We all make mistakes and to acknowledge when we are wrong helps us to get it right. :) Congratulations are in order for you.

GreenIce

03-24-2009, 06:38 AM

*************************************
I think Dr Ameli was a fake, although Petrocelli believed her. I don't think there was a paper trail connecting Dr Ameli with either Ron or Nicole. Dr Ameli said she had an explanation for it; Ron paid in cash and some other excuse for Nicole, maybe she was going to pay later through her insurance co. Also I think the LA police dept said they thought the break in was a fake.
I realize I could be wrong on this.

fgump2,

The problem with witnesses like Dr. Ameli, IMO, is if they are lying or exploiting the relationship they had with Nicole and/or Ron, why would a person do this. I know there are nut jobs out there who like to confess to crimes they didn't commit. I know there are very vindictive people who will even implicate themselves in a crime as long as they take their significant other down with them.

Dr. Ameli is professional and the reason why I believe the police and the DA's wanted nothing to do with her is because she would have been the witness to open up the door to Ron and Nicole's personal life.

When I first heard about her, my first reaction was why would anyone want to steal Goldman's records? If this was a crime of passion or domestic violence, and Simpson is guilty, what was in Ron's records that could have hurt him? If Nicole did have a drug problem, how could this hurt Simpson? The torture marks on Ron's face can't be ignored. I know Dr. L said that these could have been inflicted to make sure Ron was dead--however, there is no way to prove this. Also, Ron died with one eye open, I am pretty sure the killer(s) knew Ron was dead just by looking at his eye.

GreenIce

03-24-2009, 06:41 AM

martin II

03-24-2009, 07:34 AM

Martin,

Real quick-have you read Brenda Vermich's testimony about the gloves? It appears to me that the receipt that she identified did not have the size or the color of the gloves on it. The model number was wrong and the way that she determined the gloves were the Isotoners is because they were the only gloves that were $55.00 dollars.

The gloves came in two colors of brown. There are 3 extra large sizes.

i read it previously buit will do so again.

Previously she seemed to be a pro prosecution witness.

i have purchased gloves at several locations in that store piled up on many tables way back but i cannot visualize this sales receipt she speaks of.

With so many people grabbing gloves i have tried to remember sales people having time to hand write sales receipts.
not sure.

William Anthony

03-24-2009, 07:42 AM

martin II

03-24-2009, 07:44 AM

fgump2,

The problem with witnesses like Dr. Ameli, IMO, is if they are lying or exploiting the relationship they had with Nicole and/or Ron, why would a person do this. I know there are nut jobs out there who like to confess to crimes they didn't commit. I know there are very vindictive people who will even implicate themselves in a crime as long as they take their significant other down with them.

Dr. Ameli is professional and the reason why I believe the police and the DA's wanted nothing to do with her is because she would have been the witness to open up the door to Ron and Nicole's personal life.

When I first heard about her, my first reaction was why would anyone want to steal Goldman's records? If this was a crime of passion or domestic violence, and Simpson is guilty, what was in Ron's records that could have hurt him? If Nicole did have a drug problem, how could this hurt Simpson? The torture marks on Ron's face can't be ignored. I know Dr. L said that these could have been inflicted to make sure Ron was dead--however, there is no way to prove this. Also, Ron died with one eye open, I am pretty sure the killer(s) knew Ron was dead just by looking at his eye.

Then this leaves possibly someone in the victims famalies or someone looking for material for a book but don't forget the police or DEA looking for other drug names.

Victims famalies is out. no one with enough nerve.
Someone looking for book materials. possible.
Police or DEA big on my list. FBI have been known to do break ins also.

imo

weezer

03-24-2009, 07:47 AM

Martin,

It was Christen R., Faye's boyfriend. Nicole wanted to put it off for a few days but CR said it was he who pushed for it right away. I don't know who else was at the intervention and what they have to say about it but CR says he is the one who pushed for it.

Q. There was an intervention of your family and friends?

A. No. Not of my family. Only of my friends.

Q. Where was that intervention?

A. It was at my ex-fiance's home, in Brentwood.

Q. Christian Reichardt?

A. Yes.

Q. Who attended?

A. Christian Reichardt, Kathy Harouche, Bruce and Kris Jenner, my ex-husband Paul Resnick, and Nicole.

Q. Was there a leader at this intervention?

A. Nicole had called for the intervention.

Q. Do you know why Nicole had called for the intervention?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. Why?

A. Because I had told Nicole that I had had a problem in the past, before I had met her, when I had went to Betty Ford and that when times get stressful for me, I am not really good at handling stressful situations, and that if she had ever seen me lapse back and start using cocaine, that she was to call my husband and make sure that that didn't go any further than necessary.

Q. Why was Nicole the leader of the session, this intervention session?

MR. LEONARD: Objection.

A. Nicole was the only one that knew that I was doing drugs. Nicole was the only one that - Nicole felt that - why was she the leader? Excuse me.

Q . Nicole was your best friend at the time, right?

MR. LEONARD: Objection, leading.

A. Yes, she was my best friend.

weezer

03-24-2009, 07:56 AM

Martin,

It was Christen R., Faye's boyfriend. Nicole wanted to put it off for a few days but CR said it was he who pushed for it right away. I don't know who else was at the intervention and what they have to say about it but CR says he is the one who pushed for it.

Nicole alerted everyone to the fact that Faye needed the intervention. Nicole arranged the intervention. Nicole led the intervention. Christian testified that the next day when Faye woke up she didn't want to go into rehab so he called everyone to have them talk to Faye to remind her that she had promised.

weezer

03-24-2009, 08:21 AM

TV,

No, you never have "gone insane", I was just trying to explain why I feel that while it has been protrayed in the press that Ron and Nicole could not go to their families for help, I believe that when it came to certain issues, they could have and would have been helped. Kim and Ron had a falling out a few months before the murders and Mr. Goldman made the decision that a few nights in jail might wake Ron up. However, these events do not mean had they could not have gone to their families for help. I'm not sure what your point is. What does your feelings about whether or not Ron and/or Nicole could go to their families with problems have to do with the reality of what happened? I've not read/heard/seen anything about a 'falling out' between Kim and Ron a 'few months' before orenthal murdered him. Mr. Goldman discussed quite openly his dealings with Ron -- none of which carry the sinister tone you are trying so very hard to impart.

The point about the phone calls is that Dr. Ameli says she called Nicole that night because Nicole apparently was going to confront Simpson. She said that Nicole was pertrified that Simpson would not let her get away with it and he was coming for her that night. Dr. Ameli suggested that Nicole call a friend to stay with her until Simpson left for the airport. Could Nicole have been crying during this phone call? Could be. Instead of anger, did Sydney hear fear? Was Dr. Ameli's suggestion of calling a friend to stay with her awhile the reason why Ron parked down the street---maybe he was going to stay at Nicole's until Simpson left for the airport. The point about the phone calls is they could not be validated so your statements are simply musings on a theory you have about something that mighta/coulda happened.

I think this phone call between Faye and Nicole is critical, it is the time of this phone call is what makes it so important. Faye and her lawyers were able to block the defense from getting the records of a public telephone inside the facility that Faye was in. Faye gave at least 3 different times that the phone call took place. The final time would have made it impossible for her to know that Ron was coming over with the glasses. However, she did know that Nicole saw Marcus that day or was going to see him that night. Again, how would she know this? I think the phone call between orenthal and Nicole is the critical call. Can you tell us where to find anything about the records of the public telephone at the facility being blocked? Can you tell us where to find anything about Nicole having seen Marcus that day or planning on seeing him that night? -- I didn't think so.

Dr. Ameli treats people who are drug addicted or feel they are well on their way to the rock bottom. She also is a relationship expert. Why were Nicole and Ron seeing her? Was it for drugs, relationship issues? So if we're going to believe Dr. Ameli, we can believe that Nicole was seeing her because she was afraid of orenthal and was learning to deal with the physical abuse. However, it was important enough for her offices to be broken into, to be threatened not to talk about Simpson or Goldman. Apparently someone called her office, wanted to buy Ron and Nicole's records for several thousand dollars, she said she couldn't and she called some board to report it. hmmmm, you don't suppose some/one of the tabloids wanted to get their hands on any paperwork IF it existed, do you?

There are certain subjects or names in this case that if you just mention them, has a tendency to drive some people bonkers before they finish reading the post.

I don't think anyone goes bonkers over names/subjects -- I think people simply react to made-up nonsense being posted as truth.

martin II

03-24-2009, 08:24 AM

One thing that has puzzled me about those gloves that were made to be tight fitting, according to the testimony, is that some have said they would have come off easily. This defies what has been my experience about tight fitting clothes. I have found the looser the fit, the easier they are to get on and take off.:shrug:

Obviously these gloves were made of a very thin grade Nappa leather. same leather used in expensive womens dress shoes.

Not every size l or x large hand is made the same. Some with xl overall hands can have fingers that are too thick to fit into xl finger channels.Those with thin fingers will find the fingers too lose Because it is impossible to make finger channels to fit all size fingers.

Many people give gloves for xmas etc but usually they are just regular gloves basically of thicker leather for warmth and made for a looser fit.

Rubins gloves were made for very tight fit to give the user the feeling of a second skin. Picking up small items and using a pen etc would be easier.

The user should try them on at purchase. Many gloves are returned after xmas because of fit problems.

I believe Nicole knew that oj had hands that were hugh (As the captain and the man at the airport reported) and i just find it strange that she would purchase those very thin gloves for oj.Unless she just grabbed some gloves without looking or thinking about possible fit problems.

I think one would have to pinch each individual finger tip with maby thumb and index finger to manuver the glove off the hand from a good fit.imo

martin II

03-24-2009, 08:31 AM

I don't think anyone goes bonkers over names/subjects -- I think people simply react to made-up nonsense being posted as truth.

Fred did have some static with ron shortly before he was killed.

You have no proof that oj talked to Nicole that night

I believe the defense did try to get the phone records of the public phone but at the rahab would have been impossible.

I don't believe you should be accusing others of posting nonsense.

weezer

03-24-2009, 08:33 AM

Martin,

I agree with your post, but I would like to add something to it. Just because drugs were not found in Ron's or Nicole's system, that does not mean they did not have a "drug problem". I know very little about the drug culture but I do know that every drug dealer is warned to sell the junk--don't use it. It is bad for business. There is and has never been any evidence that Ron and/or Nicole dealt with drugs. As I said, on the night orenthal james simpson murdered Ron and Nicole, he had drugs in his system. On the night that Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown were murdered by orenthal james simpson, they had NO drugs in their system.

In American Tragedy, it says that Nicole's nose did show signs of cocaine abuse. However, Simpson was admanent that they not go down this road. I think in Simpson's depositon they also stayed away from this subject--which I think this is the only time Petrocelli, Simpson and Kelley agreed on anything.
I'm going through my copy of American Tragedy looking forthe reference to Nicole's nose. Would you mind telling me where in the book that is? orenthal trashed Nicole's name and memory and you think he kept anyone from going down the road to stop it! LOL. The more logical answer is that his drug use would be exposed and we all know that orenthal is only concerned with orenthal.

martin II

03-24-2009, 08:34 AM

Nicole alerted everyone to the fact that Faye needed the intervention. Nicole arranged the intervention. Nicole led the intervention. Christian testified that the next day when Faye woke up she didn't want to go into rehab so he called everyone to have them talk to Faye to remind her that she had promised.

So CR gave her the shove she needed.

weezer

03-24-2009, 08:37 AM

******************************************
It would be hard to make a judgment on that unless the people making the judgment (jury) were there at night and had the lights turn on and off. Trying to figure out whether or not light would get through certain bushes at night is pretty hard to do if you see it only during the day.

One part of the criminal jury opinion that amazed me was when at least one of the jurors said she didn't think M.F. could have seen blood on and in the Bronco at night. To make this kind of judgment the juror would have had to be there that night. On subsequent nights it wouldn't be possible to reproduce either the bronco's condition or the lighting conditions of that night. By the time the jurors were seated, the blood had dried and much of it had been removed for testing. I think the defenses arguments about what blood MF could have seen that night would be enough to put anyone to sleep. Of course a lot of the prosecution's talk was a pointless also.

Wandering off the subject a bit. I have made some inaccurate postings partly because I thought some I understood some things about the trial, which I later realized were wrong. As I read the transcripts, I found myself thinking 'How on earth could anyone watch the trail and stay awake?'. This is partly an apology for any inaccurate postings I may have made.

the prosecution wanted the jury to see Rockingham at night but ito vetoed it.

everyone on here posts inaccurate postings -- the case was a long time ago and there is so much information and misinformation out there.

martin II

03-24-2009, 08:37 AM

weezer

03-24-2009, 08:40 AM

Well he supported nicole and his children for 17 years and his children for 13 more.

oh hey, I give him credit where credit is due -- hell, he's still supporting arnelle and she's what? in her 40's now!

03-24-2009, 08:42 AM

I don't think anyone goes bonkers over names/subjects -- I think people simply react to made-up nonsense being posted as truth.You hit the nail on the head! :beer:

martin II

03-24-2009, 08:51 AM

the prosecution wanted the jury to see Rockingham at night but ito vetoed it.

everyone on here posts inaccurate postings -- the case was a long time ago and there is so much information and misinformation out there.

Standing at Ashford gate looking at the house one can see there were too many thick trees and too many bushes for Park to see any light in the leftside of the first floor day or night. he could see a light in the distasnce
near the garage in that kitchen nook but not the first floor left of the door.
the light was always on on the second floor where oj was and i believe Park may have gotten that light confused with the first floor light. I think oj first came down stairs by the light of the chandlier hanging over the stairs,dropped the two duffle bags, moved the golf bag closer top the house
walked back through the door (Park saw him) flipped on the porch light switch,and went upstairs to finish dressing and comming down.

martinii

William Anthony

03-24-2009, 08:53 AM

You hit the nail on the head! :beer:

Yes, and we have had some fine examples of this in the last two days, such as presumptive tests being blood and Kato never claiming to have heard the noise.:)

03-24-2009, 08:55 AM

I'm going through my copy of American Tragedy looking forthe reference to Nicole's nose. Would you mind telling me where in the book that is? orenthal trashed Nicole's name and memory and you think he kept anyone from going down the road to stop it! LOL. The more logical answer is that his drug use would be exposed and we all know that orenthal is only concerned with orenthal.

From Daniel Petrocelli's book:

"Faye Resnick had said in her book that Simpson had used cocaine in her presence as late as 1993. Many people that knew Simpson called or spoke to me and told me about Simpson's drug use. Several reported he had earned the nickname "Hoover" because he would vaccum up so much cocaine."

martin II

03-24-2009, 08:57 AM

oh hey, I give him credit where credit is due -- hell, he's still supporting arnelle and she's what? in her 40's now!

See how easy it is to post nonsense or something you know nothing about.
But you make accusations of others.
hahaha

Jayme K

03-24-2009, 09:00 AM

Any report about rons and nicoles involvement with drugs came from published reports available to anyone.

Also there are reports from many of O.J.'s friends that he was for sure a repeated cocaine user.

martin II

03-24-2009, 09:00 AM

From Daniel Petrocelli's book:

"Faye Resnick had said in her book that Simpson had used cocaine in her presence as late as 1993. Many people that knew Simpson called or spoke to me and told me about Simpson's drug use. Several reported he had earned the nickname "Hoover" because he would vaccum up so much cocaine."

Do you believe Fay when she said Nicole freebased cocain with her.I think both OJ and Nicole may havd done coke when they both lived at rockingham as they did a lot of partrying there but i have seen nothing that it got out of control for either.

Jayme K

03-24-2009, 09:02 AM

Faye in her deposition tried to say that she did not know freebasing involved cocain But was forced to admit that was not true.Then she estimated that she was spending only $20.00 a day for the drug. That was a lie.

What is the evidence that tell us this is a lie? It was never shown to be a lie.

But I think that you are obviously outright lying when you post alot of things martin and that's not kosher. It's misleading to anyone who reads here that doesn't know this case as good as alot of us do.

03-24-2009, 09:06 AM

Yes, and we have had some fine examples of this in the last two days, such as presumptive tests being blood and Kato never claiming to have heard the noise.:)

The presumptive test was positive for blood which means it was presumed to be blood. Further tests could have been done on the sample from the air conditioning unit. Why didn't Lee do it?

In the civil trial, Kato said the three thumps were "like someone falling back behind my bedroom wall."

Jayme K

03-24-2009, 09:07 AM

Nicole did arrange the intervention because she wanted this freebaser out of her house to get rid of her and Fays friends that were comming to her house.

Don't you ever get embarrassed with your nonsense? Are you EVEN aware that at the time Nicole arranged the intervention Faye was already out of her house? She had packed her bags and gone to stay with her friend Kathy Harouche.

One of these days try to get it right pal.

martin II

03-24-2009, 09:07 AM

I don't think anyone goes bonkers over names/subjects -- I think people simply react to made-up nonsense being posted as truth.

It was reported by neighbor that a black mercedes was seen at nicoles on 6/12. Marcus had such car. Marcus had caught a plane at lax just before oj caught his on 6/12. Faye did say nicole told her she had seen Marcus again.
i think she told Cora the same stuff.

Jayme K

03-24-2009, 09:07 AM

See how easy it is to post nonsense or something you know nothing about.
But you make accusations of others.
hahaha

You should know:rolleyes:

martin II

03-24-2009, 09:09 AM

martin II

03-24-2009, 09:12 AM

William Anthony

03-24-2009, 09:13 AM

The presumptive test was positive for blood which means it was presumed to be blood. Further tests could have been done on the sample from the air conditioning unit. Why didn't Lee do it?

In the civil trial, Kato said the three thumps were "like someone falling back behind my bedroom wall."

We all know that presumptive tests yield false positives and further confirmation tests are required. Dr. Lee was not required to prove what was on the air conditioner. This is in regard to a poster's claim that DF testified he found blood in the drains. Just like the presumption of innocence any presumption can be rebutted. DF never testified he found blood in the drains.

Kato testified that he heard three thumps and described them in the criminal trial. To say that he did not is not accurate. I really do appreciate your loyalty, however misplaced, imho.:)

03-24-2009, 09:13 AM

Do you believe Fay when she said Nicole freebased cocain with her.I think both OJ and Nicole may havd done coke when they both lived at rockingham as they did a lot of partrying there but i have seen nothing that it got out of control for either.The only reason we're even spending this much time on the drug use of any of the participant's is because you keep bringing up Faye free-basing cocaine. If you think that OJ Simpson wasn't familiar with drugs, including cocaine, then you're being naive. Drugs didn't have anything to do with this crime. It was a simple case of OJ Simpson in a rage.

One thing I don't understand. martin, one minute you're talking about what a druggie Nicole was and then the next minute you're talking about how she got Faye's "free-basing butt" butt out of her house. Which is it?

03-24-2009, 09:14 AM

It was presumed to be positive or A false positive which is why the follow up test is required to call the sample BLOOD.

Then why didn't Dr. Lee further test what he collected that tested positive for blood that he found on the air conditioning unit?

William Anthony

03-24-2009, 09:16 AM

Then why didn't Dr. Lee further test what he collected that tested positive for blood that he found on the air conditioning unit?

Don't you mean to say why didn't Dr. Lee further test what could have been rust or coffee?:)

03-24-2009, 09:16 AM

We all know that presumptive tests yield false positives and further confirmation tests are required. Dr. Lee was not required to prove what was on the air conditioner. This is in regard to a poster's claim that DF testified he found blood in the drains. Just like the presumption of innocence any presumption can be rebutted. DF never testified he found blood in the drains.

Kato testified that he heard three thumps and described them in the criminal trial. To say that he did not is not accurate. I really do appreciate your loyalty, however misplaced, imho.:)
William, I don't know what dead horse you're beating this time but please just come out with it.

martin II

03-24-2009, 09:18 AM

William Anthony

03-24-2009, 09:18 AM

William, I don't know what dead horse you're beating this time but please just come out with it.

I am talking about inaccuracies that are posted as truths, which you commented on. :)

martin II

03-24-2009, 09:22 AM

William, I don't know what dead horse you're beating this time but please just come out with it.

tv

his post is quite clear to me.got to correct those wrong info post.:cool::)

03-24-2009, 09:24 AM

Don't you mean to say why didn't Dr. Lee further test what could have been rust or coffee?:)
I guess we'll never be sure because the great Dr. Lee didn't finish his work and run further tests. I believe the chemical reacts to protein in blood so I doubt it was rust or coffee. Hmm...something wrong? :rolleyes:

03-24-2009, 09:25 AM

I am talking about inaccuracies that are posted as truths, which you commented on. :)I'm not in the mood for you to twist what I say. I've never said that Kato didn't hear the thumps and you know it.

03-24-2009, 09:26 AM

tv

his post is quite clear to me.got to correct those wrong info post.:cool::)
martin, if I tried for a hundred years I could never catch up to your number of inaccuracies. :)

weezer

03-24-2009, 09:27 AM

we all know that presumptive tests yield false positives and further confirmation tests are required. Dr. Lee was not required to prove what was on the air conditioner. This is in regard to a poster's claim that df testified he found blood in the drains. Just like the presumption of innocence any presumption can be rebutted. df never testified he found blood in the drains.

kato testified that he heard three thumps and described them in the criminal trial. To say that he did not is not accurate. I really do appreciate your loyalty, however misplaced, imho.:)

1 photographs -a through -f.
2 a. Yes.
3 q. Is that you in photograph -c?
4 a. Yes, it is.
5 q. Can you tell us what is being shown in each of
6 these photographs.
7 a. In photograph -a, we are showing that there is
8 a presumptive positive test next to the card labeled 14.
9 we collected that stain in the master
10 bathroom. I did a presumptive test for blood in the sink
11 drain and it came back indicating the presence of blood in
12 the sink drain.
13 i also did a presumptive test in the shower
14 drain, and there was also a positive test indicating the
15 presence of blood in the shower drain.
16 q. Was there enough blood in any of those
17 locations for blood typing?
18 a. The stain that is labeled 14 in photographs -b
19 and -a was collected and it was submitted for analysis. I
20 don't know the results.
21 however, the other two tests that were done in
22 the sink and in the drain, there was not enough blood there
23 to collect.
24 q. So the blood shown in people's 32, photographs
25 -a and -b, was sufficient for further testing; but that
26 shown in -c, -d, -e and -f of that exhibit was not?
27 a. That is correct.
28 q. When you say, "presumptive testing," can you
1 tell us what you mean by that.
2 a. A presumptive test means we have a test that is
3 not conclusive. There are other compounds or substances
4 that may give a false positive.
5 however, they are usually fairly reliable. But
6 you can't definitely say that something is blood from this
7 test alone.
8 q. So it's a screening test, but not a final
9 conclusion.
10 is that right?
11 a. Yes.

martin II

03-24-2009, 09:27 AM

The only reason we're even spending this much time on the drug use of any of the participant's is because you keep bringing up Faye free-basing cocaine. If you think that OJ Simpson wasn't familiar with drugs, including cocaine, then you're being naive. Drugs didn't have anything to do with this crime. It was a simple case of OJ Simpson in a rage.

One thing I don't understand. martin, one minute you're talking about what a druggie Nicole was and then the next minute you're talking about how she got Faye's "free-basing butt" butt out of her house. Which is it?

no

drugs got into the discussion when a certain poster continued to post 'OJ SIMPSON HAD DRUGS IN HIS STSYTEM AND RON AND NICOLE DID NOT ON 6/13. Over and over again.

03-24-2009, 09:28 AM

So his partners nickname must have been lady Kenmore.Perhaps someone that we could call "Lady Kenmore" washed the sweats. Wonder who that could have been? :tongue:

03-24-2009, 09:29 AM

no

drugs got into the discussion when a certain poster continued to post 'OJ SIMPSON HAD DRUGS IN HIS STSYTEM AND RON AND NICOLE DID NOT ON 6/13. Over and over again.No, that poster only posts that when you start going on and on about Nicole being such a druggie.

weezer

03-24-2009, 09:30 AM

no

drugs got into the discussion when a certain poster continued to post 'OJ SIMPSON HAD DRUGS IN HIS STSYTEM AND RON AND NICOLE DID NOT ON 6/13. Over and over again.

I was simply responding to the false posts about Ron and/or Nicole's drug involvement and use. the fact remains that there is and has never been any evidence that Ron and/or Nicole dealt with drugs or were using drugs. As I said, on the night orenthal james simpson murdered Ron and Nicole, he had drugs in his system. On the night that Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown were murdered by orenthal james simpson, they had NO drugs in their system.

William Anthony

03-24-2009, 09:30 AM

I'm not in the mood for you to twist what I say. I've never said that Kato didn't hear the thumps and you know it.

You misunderstand and that is not what I said, as those statements were not made by you. There was a post about posts being inaccurate but made as truth, to which you responded, "you hit the nail on the head." I apologize if I took your comment the wrong way, because as I now see it you could have been saying that the person was hammering home the nail of inaccuracy.:) This is in the spirit of lighthearted banter, lighthearted banter.:)

weezer

03-24-2009, 09:30 AM

Perhaps someone that we could call "Lady Kenmore" washed the sweats. Wonder who that could have been? :tongue:

LOL -- perfect! :D

William Anthony

03-24-2009, 09:31 AM

Perhaps someone that we could call "Lady Kenmore" washed the sweats. Wonder who that could have been? :tongue:

Ms. Corn oil?

03-24-2009, 09:33 AM

It was reported by neighbor that a black mercedes was seen at nicoles on 6/12. Marcus had such car. Marcus had caught a plane at lax just before oj caught his on 6/12. Faye did say nicole told her she had seen Marcus again.
i think she told Cora the same stuff.What does this have to do with anything except it gave OJ Simpson another reason to be insanely jealous and full for rage?

martin II

03-24-2009, 09:34 AM

The only reason we're even spending this much time on the drug use of any of the participant's is because you keep bringing up Faye free-basing cocaine. If you think that OJ Simpson wasn't familiar with drugs, including cocaine, then you're being naive. Drugs didn't have anything to do with this crime. It was a simple case of OJ Simpson in a rage.

One thing I don't understand. martin, one minute you're talking about what a druggie Nicole was and then the next minute you're talking about how she got Faye's "free-basing butt" butt out of her house. Which is it?

tv
i have posted fays and coras testimony on nicoles drug use.

I am sure Faye was freebasing cocain at nicoles, she admitted it. Most people that find themselves in the position Nicole was in, a active freesbassing friend with no money in her house would do the same as she did .Get that problem out of her house and stop her friends from comming to see her.imo

weezer

03-24-2009, 09:38 AM

What does this have to do with anything except it gave OJ Simpson another reason to be insanely jealous and full for rage?

hmmm -- IIRC, allen and his wife were in the Caymen Islands when they found out Nicole had been murdered.

03-24-2009, 09:38 AM

Ms. Corn oil?I don't know if Lady Kenmore had corns or not or if she did whether or not she put oil on them...anything's possible, I guess.

martin II

03-24-2009, 09:40 AM

What does this have to do with anything except it gave OJ Simpson another reason to be insanely jealous and full for rage?

I am not sure about this but i think Nicole had told oj she had stopped seeing marcus and oj and Marcus had talked this out. That is why Cora said she was surprised when Nicole told her she had seen him again.
I think that too many in that friendship group may have been doing each others man/women. who knows.

03-24-2009, 09:42 AM

hmmm -- IIRC, allen and his wife were in the Caymen Islands when they found out Nicole had been murdered.
Yep, you're right -- he was! I believe he said he was on the golf course.

weezer

03-24-2009, 09:45 AM

tv
i have posted fays and coras testimony on nicoles drug use.

I am sure Faye was freebasing cocain at nicoles, she admitted it. Most people that find themselves in the position Nicole was in, a active freesbassing friend with no money in her house would do the same as she did .Get that problem out of her house and stop her friends from comming to see her.imo

um, um, um -- I'm not sure what faye's and cora's drug use has to do with Nicole but the fact remains that there is and has never been any evidence that Ron and/or Nicole dealt with drugs or were using drugs. As I said, on the night orenthal james simpson murdered Ron and Nicole, he had drugs in his system. On the night that Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown were murdered by orenthal james simpson, they had NO drugs in their system.

03-24-2009, 09:47 AM

I am not sure about this but i think Nicole had told oj she had stopped seeing marcus and oj and Marcus had talked this out. That is why Cora said she was surprised when Nicole told her she had seen him again.
I think that too many in that friendship group may have been doing each others man/women. who knows.

It may surprise you to know that Marcus Allen and OJ Simpson gave different versions of MA's relationship with Nicole in the civil trial and that Petrocelli found OJ Simpson's version more believable.

weezer

03-24-2009, 09:47 AM

I am not sure about this but i think Nicole had told oj she had stopped seeing marcus and oj and Marcus had talked this out. That is why Cora said she was surprised when Nicole told her she had seen him again.
I think that too many in that friendship group may have been doing each others man/women. who knows.

allen denied the allegations of an affair and as far as I can tell, no one could prove otherwise.

martin II

03-24-2009, 09:47 AM

hmmm -- IIRC, allen and his wife were in the Caymen Islands when they found out Nicole had been murdered.

The Sky cap at the airport testified that he told oj at the airport curb that Marcus Allen had caught the flight just before oj. i don't know where he was when he got the news but acording to the sky cap Marcus Allen was in la and at LAX just before Oj got there on the night of 6/12.

martin II

03-24-2009, 09:56 AM

allen denied the allegations of an affair and as far as I can tell, no one could prove otherwise.

He resolved it with oj and his wife.This is why he refused to come to la to testify because he did not want his name in that mess as he was with a new team.

martin II

03-24-2009, 09:58 AM

It may surprise you to know that Marcus Allen and OJ Simpson gave different versions of MA's relationship with Nicole in the civil trial and that Petrocelli found OJ Simpson's version more believable.

marcus Allen testified in the civil trial???

03-24-2009, 10:02 AM

marcus Allen testified in the civil trial???

Marcus Allen was deposed in the civil trial.

martin II

03-24-2009, 10:12 AM

allen denied the allegations of an affair and as far as I can tell, no one could prove otherwise.

What would you expect Marcus to do. Tell everyone i did nicole my best friends wife. He had a wife and public image to protect.

martin II

03-24-2009, 10:13 AM

Marcus Allen was deposed in the civil trial.

What did he say i never met ojs wife Nicole. i will look for it.

martin II

03-24-2009, 10:18 AM

Yep, you're right -- he was! I believe he said he was on the golf course.

He may have been but the sky cap said he caught a plane at lax just before oj on 6/12 before 11:30.the sky cap did not speak of where he was going just that he caught a flight before oj.
lax has flights to many places including the islands..

03-24-2009, 10:21 AM

He may have been but the sky cap said he caught a plane at lax just before oj on 6/12 before 11:30.the sky cap did not speak of where he was going just that he caught a flight before oj.
lax has flights to many places including the islands..
Is this the same skycap that saw Simpson messing around the trash can?

William Anthony

03-24-2009, 10:27 AM

I don't know if Lady Kenmore had corns or not or if she did whether or not she put oil on them...anything's possible, I guess.

Why I thought you knew that Lady Kenmore and Ms. Corn Oil were two different people. One post has Lady Kenmore as someone related to Simpson by blood but Ms. Corn Oil worked for LE.

03-24-2009, 10:33 AM

Why I thought you knew that Lady Kenmore and Ms. Corn Oil were two different people. One post has Lady Kenmore as someone related to Simpson by blood but Ms. Corn Oil worked for LE.
Oh, that's right...how could I forget? Nope, I think Lady Kenmore took care of the sweats if anyone besides OJ Simpson washed them. Ms. Corn Oil may have seen the sweats but I'm sure she didn't wash them...lighthearted banter, lighthearted banter, lighthearted banter. :)

weezer

03-24-2009, 10:38 AM

What would you expect Marcus to do. Tell everyone i did nicole my best friends wife. He had a wife and public image to protect.

Marcus Allen claims Simpson asked
him to lie
May 31, 1996
Web posted at: 11:10 p.m. EDT

KANSAS CITY, Missouri (CNN) -- Football star Marcus Allen told lawyers Friday that O.J. Simpson called him from jail and asked him to lie about Allen's relationship with Simpson's ex-wife, Nicole Brown Simpson.

Lawyers questioned Allen under oath Friday in the wrongful death civil suit against Simpson filed by the families of Nicole Brown Simpson and Ronald Goldman.

Ms. Simpson and Goldman, her friend, were found stabbed to death outside Ms. Simpson's home on June 13, 1994. Simpson was acquitted last October of the murders.

Simpson had previously said that Allen confided to him that he had dated Nicole and had sex with her after the divorce. Simpson said the fact that he remained friends with Allen and even hosted his 1993 wedding at his Brentwood mansion showed that he was not a jealous ex-husband.

But Allen, a Heisman Trophy winner and a running back with NFL's Kansas City Chiefs, testified Friday that he never had a sexual relationship with O.J.'s former wife, and that he never told Simpson that he had, according to a lawyer present during the deposition.

During the deposition, Allen testified that Simpson called him while in jail for the murders and asked him to support the story about Allen's relationship with Nicole, the lawyer said.

Allen said he refused to lie for Simpson and instead ended his longtime friendship with him after that call, according to the lawyer. When Simpson tried to force Allen to testify at his murder trial last year, a Kansas judge upheld Allen's challenge of the subpoena.

Allen testified that he never discussed the evidence in the murder case with Simpson and never heard an admission of guilt from him, said Daniel Petrocelli, a lawyer for the Goldman family.

William Anthony

03-24-2009, 10:44 AM

Oh, that's right...how could I forget? Nope, I think Lady Kenmore took care of the sweats if anyone besides OJ Simpson washed them. Ms. Corn Oil may have seen the sweats but I'm sure she didn't wash them...lighthearted banter, lighthearted banter, lighthearted banter. :)

Why couldn't she have washed them, if DF told her to? You think Ms. Corn oil could have gotten mad and taken the sweats after she washed them?:) Lighthearted banter, lighthearted banter.

03-24-2009, 10:51 AM

Why couldn't she have washed them, if DF told her to? You think Ms. Corn oil could have gotten mad and taken the sweats after she washed them?:) Lighthearted banter, lighthearted banter.
Give me one good reason that Ms. Corn Oil would wash the sweats?

03-24-2009, 10:53 AM

Marcus Allen claims Simpson asked
him to lie
May 31, 1996
Web posted at: 11:10 p.m. EDT

KANSAS CITY, Missouri (CNN) -- Football star Marcus Allen told lawyers Friday that O.J. Simpson called him from jail and asked him to lie about Allen's relationship with Simpson's ex-wife, Nicole Brown Simpson.

Lawyers questioned Allen under oath Friday in the wrongful death civil suit against Simpson filed by the families of Nicole Brown Simpson and Ronald Goldman.

Ms. Simpson and Goldman, her friend, were found stabbed to death outside Ms. Simpson's home on June 13, 1994. Simpson was acquitted last October of the murders.

Simpson had previously said that Allen confided to him that he had dated Nicole and had sex with her after the divorce. Simpson said the fact that he remained friends with Allen and even hosted his 1993 wedding at his Brentwood mansion showed that he was not a jealous ex-husband.

But Allen, a Heisman Trophy winner and a running back with NFL's Kansas City Chiefs, testified Friday that he never had a sexual relationship with O.J.'s former wife, and that he never told Simpson that he had, according to a lawyer present during the deposition.

During the deposition, Allen testified that Simpson called him while in jail for the murders and asked him to support the story about Allen's relationship with Nicole, the lawyer said.

Allen said he refused to lie for Simpson and instead ended his longtime friendship with him after that call, according to the lawyer. When Simpson tried to force Allen to testify at his murder trial last year, a Kansas judge upheld Allen's challenge of the subpoena.

Allen testified that he never discussed the evidence in the murder case with Simpson and never heard an admission of guilt from him, said Daniel Petrocelli, a lawyer for the Goldman family.

Thanks, weezer. :)

weezer

03-24-2009, 10:53 AM

Give me one good reason that Ms. Corn Oil would wash the sweats?

so this is the new theory huh? LE swiped arnelle's lingerie and orenthal sweatsuit and washed them? LOL

William Anthony

03-24-2009, 11:03 AM

Give me one good reason that Ms. Corn Oil would wash the sweats?

Following the orders of her superiors.:)

03-24-2009, 11:26 AM

so this is the new theory huh? LE swiped arnelle's lingerie and orenthal sweatsuit and washed them? LOLWashed them and then never did anything with them except video them?

03-24-2009, 11:27 AM

Following the orders of her superiors.:)
Okay, William, we'll do this the slow, painstaking way -- why would her superiors ask her to do that? What was the goal?

William Anthony

03-24-2009, 11:36 AM

Okay, William, we'll do this the slow, painstaking way -- why would her superiors ask her to do that? What was the goal?

So, they could say they saw freshly laundered items in the washing machine, of course.:)

weezer

03-24-2009, 11:38 AM

So, they could say they saw freshly laundered items in the washing machine, of course.:)

and she was able to do this before the murders occurred?

William Anthony

03-24-2009, 11:54 AM

and she was able to do this before the murders occurred?

Are you suggesting that members of LE were prowling around Simpson's estate, messing with clothing items, before the murder's were committed?

Jayme K

03-24-2009, 12:01 PM

What would you expect Marcus to do. Tell everyone i did nicole my best friends wife. He had a wife and public image to protect.

So you're saying that Marcus Allen committed perjury ... because as I'm sure you know a deposition is taken under oath.

Isn't perjury what Mark Fuhrman committed? And isn't that what he's been condemned for?

weezer

03-24-2009, 12:02 PM

Are you suggesting that members of LE were prowling around Simpson's estate, messing with clothing items, before the murder's were committed?

could be -- they could have gotten the call from the neighbor who saw orenthal at Nicole's killing her and Ron and they ran to orenthal's so they could start the washer and be ready when he got home. of course, that still doesn't account for arnelle's lingerie does it? the only thing I can come up with is either arnelle lied :eek: about taking her laundry to the main house or orenthal was wearing them under the sweatsuit. ;)

William Anthony

03-24-2009, 12:13 PM

could be -- they could have gotten the call from the neighbor who saw orenthal at Nicole's killing her and Ron and they ran to orenthal's so they could start the washer and be ready when he got home. of course, that still doesn't account for arnelle's lingerie does it? the only thing I can come up with is either arnelle lied :eek: about taking her laundry to the main house or orenthal was wearing them under the sweatsuit. ;)

So, you are suggesting that LE fabricated evidence and did not investigate a phone call of Ms. NBS's neighbor saying that Simpson was committing murder but decided to rummage thorough Ms. Arnelle's dirty laundry and wash it to make it appear that Simpson wore the sweat suit they washed, correct?

weezer

03-24-2009, 12:25 PM

So, you are suggesting that LE fabricated evidence and did not investigate a phone call of Ms. NBS's neighbor saying that Simpson was committing murder but decided to rummage thorough Ms. Arnelle's dirty laundry and wash it to make it appear that Simpson wore the sweat suit they washed, correct?

personally, I think it was the columbian guys over there messing with arnelle's lingerie -- :eek:

William Anthony

03-24-2009, 12:40 PM

personally, I think it was the columbian guys over there messing with arnelle's lingerie -- :eek:

Prior to this, I have never believed what they said about women being fickle-minded.:)

martin II

03-24-2009, 01:03 PM

Is this the same skycap that saw Simpson messing around the trash can?

No sky cap testified that he saw oj messing around with any trash can.he testified that when oj gave him the autograph he saw oj going through the doors to the terminal.Someone said he saw oj rest a piece of luggage on top of a trash can. But the cans were searched by le.no bag.

martin II

03-24-2009, 01:06 PM

Jayme K

03-24-2009, 01:07 PM

TV,

No, you never have "gone insane", I was just trying to explain why I feel that while it has been protrayed in the press that Ron and Nicole could not go to their families for help, I believe that when it came to certain issues, they could have and would have been helped. Kim and Ron had a falling out a few months before the murders and Mr. Goldman made the decision that a few nights in jail might wake Ron up. However, these events do not mean had they could not have gone to their families for help.

The point about the phone calls is that Dr. Ameli says she called Nicole that night because Nicole apparently was going to confront Simpson. She said that Nicole was pertrified that Simpson would not let her get away with it and he was coming for her that night. Dr. Ameli suggested that Nicole call a friend to stay with her until Simpson left for the airport. Could Nicole have been crying during this phone call? Could be. Instead of anger, did Sydney hear fear? Was Dr. Ameli's suggestion of calling a friend to stay with her awhile the reason why Ron parked down the street---maybe he was going to stay at Nicole's until Simpson left for the airport.

I think this phone call between Faye and Nicole is critical, it is the time of this phone call is what makes it so important. Faye and her lawyers were able to block the defense from getting the records of a public telephone inside the facility that Faye was in. Faye gave at least 3 different times that the phone call took place. The final time would have made it impossible for her to know that Ron was coming over with the glasses. However, she did know that Nicole saw Marcus that day or was going to see him that night. Again, how would she know this?

Dr. Ameli treats people who are drug addicted or feel they are well on their way to the rock bottom. She also is a relationship expert. Why were Nicole and Ron seeing her? Was it for drugs, relationship issues? However, it was important enough for her offices to be broken into, to be threatened not to talk about Simpson or Goldman. Apparently someone called her office, wanted to buy Ron and Nicole's records for several thousand dollars, she said she couldn't and she called some board to report it.

There are certain subjects or names in this case that if you just mention them, has a tendency to drive some people bonkers before they finish reading the post.

I think it was asked before and I didn't see an answer ... where are you getting that Faye gave 3 different times that the phone call took place? Everything I have heard and read shows a consistent time given by her.

Thanks.

martin II

03-24-2009, 01:12 PM

Marcus had a black mercedes. some neighbor said she saw a black expensive car in front of nicoles on 6/12.Faye said Nicole told her she had seen Marcus.
I think she also told Cora this.:shrug:

martin II

03-24-2009, 01:16 PM

personally, I think it was the columbian guys over there messing with arnelle's lingerie -- :eek:

I don't think Arenell is aware of how much she is under the skin of a certain poster.I don't think she would care if she did know.

weezer

03-24-2009, 01:16 PM

Marcus had a black mercedes. some neighbor said she saw a black expensive car in front of nicoles on 6/12.Faye said Nicole told her she had seen Marcus.
I think she also told Cora this.:shrug:

hmmm -- well obviously 'some' neighbor didn't know what they were talking about.

Jayme K

03-24-2009, 01:17 PM

FBG,

Everybody needs a hobby! Rock on with your respect for the LAPD.

Yes ... they do ... its just kinda sad that for some people the hobby seems to include posting untruths and pretending like they're real.

But rock on with that hobby ...

weezer

03-24-2009, 01:19 PM

I don't think Arenell is aware of how much she is under the skin of a certain poster.I don't think she would care if she did know.

LOL -- she's not under my skin martin. I just call it like I see it. all evidence and her testimony point to the fact that she was involved in at least the cover-up of the murders of Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown. I simply don't think she should have gotten away with it -- that's all.

weezer

03-24-2009, 01:21 PM

Actually i never saw any lingerie in the picture of the washing machine.

really? and there you were watching every 'live' detail of the trial. go figure.

William Anthony

03-24-2009, 01:55 PM

martin II

03-24-2009, 01:58 PM

really? and there you were watching every 'live' detail of the trial. go figure.

yep and got all or most of it on tape.

martin II

03-24-2009, 02:01 PM

Was Ms. Arnelle charged, tried and convicted?

Never tried or convicted of anything. But it is possible that one that did not view the trial may have believed it was reported that she was. :cool:

martin II

03-24-2009, 02:05 PM

Oh, that's right...how could I forget? Nope, I think Lady Kenmore took care of the sweats if anyone besides OJ Simpson washed them. Ms. Corn Oil may have seen the sweats but I'm sure she didn't wash them...lighthearted banter, lighthearted banter, lighthearted banter. :)

I think Lady Kenmore sat next to Hoover at the coffe table.

fgump2

03-24-2009, 02:21 PM

LOL -- she's not under my skin martin. I just call it like I see it. all evidence and her testimony point to the fact that she was involved in at least the cover-up of the murders of Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown. I simply don't think she should have gotten away with it -- that's all.
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I thought I'd take a slam at Arnelle. In her civil disposition (or maybe it was trial testimony) of Jan 14 (96 I think) she said that one of the detectives (Lange or Vannatter) told her on the night of the killing that Nicole had been killed with another person near her (Nicole's home). The detective in question denied it. I believe the denial because most police policy is to not answer questions, especially if the information could get to a suspect. I have asked police near my home and other places 'What happened?'. I have always gotten my questions turned aside. This even where it was a car wreck, which isn't a felony. I think the police would be even more careful about following procedures with a double murder. You can't get more serious than a double murder.
I can think of two additional reasons why the police wouldn't have given Arnelle this information.
First of all most people find it painful to tell others that someone died, especially if the recepient of the information may be close to the deceased.
Secondly if you are going to frame someone, I think it would be an advantage to keep the frameup victem in the dark as long as possible.

I think Arnelle was trying to cover up for OJS knowing something about the murders on the plane back. OJS told a lawyer seat mate (Partridge I think) that he know that Nicole and another man had been killed in a garden. It also seems oddd that in the police interview OJS seems not to have forgotten this information. Thats the way I read the interview.
Maybe we could have a contest to see who can come up with the best and most dirt on Arnelle. Martin could be the judge.

William Anthony

03-24-2009, 02:24 PM

Never tried or convicted of anything. But it is possible that one that did not view the trial may have believed it was reported that she was. :cool:

I admit that I am at a loss. Some say Simpson got away with murder, because he was charged, tried and acquitted, whereas Ms. Arnelle did not get away with accessory after the fact even though she was never charged, tried and convicted or acquitted. There seems to be a double standard.

William Anthony

03-24-2009, 02:31 PM

************************************************** *****
I thought I'd take a slam at Arnelle. In her civil disposition (or maybe it was trial testimony) of Jan 14 (96 I think) she said that one of the detectives (Lange or Vannatter) told her on the night of the killing that Nicole had been killed with another person near her (Nicole's home). The detective in question denied it. I believe the denial because most police policy is to not answer questions, especially if the information could get to a suspect. I have asked police near my home and other places 'What happened?'. I have always gotten my questions turned aside. This even where it was a car wreck, which isn't a felony. I think the police would be even more careful about following procedures with a double murder. You can't get more serious than a double murder.
I can think of two additional reasons why the police wouldn't have given Arnelle this information.
First of all most people find it painful to tell others that someone died, especially if the recepient of the information may be close to the deceased.
Secondly if you are going to frame someone, I think it would be an advantage to keep the frameup victem in the dark as long as possible.

I think Arnelle was trying to cover up for OJS knowing something about the murders on the plane back. OJS told a lawyer seat mate (Partridge I think) that he know that Nicole and another man had been killed in a garden. It also seems oddd that in the police interview OJS seems not to have forgotten this information. Thats the way I read the interview.
Maybe we could have a contest to see who can come up with the best and most dirt on Arnelle. Martin could be the judge.

Maybe it would be good for all to remember the rules and moderator's instructions. However, I am interested in a link to where Simpson told anyone that Ms. NBS and another man had been beaten and killed in a garden. Can you provide the link?

weezer

03-24-2009, 02:47 PM

I think Lady Kenmore sat next to Hoover at the coffe table.

excellent -- that's what we're all thinking too. like daddy, like daughter.

fgump2

03-24-2009, 02:55 PM

Maybe it would be good for all to remember the rules and moderator's instructions. However, I am interested in a link to where Simpson told anyone that Ms. NBS and another man had been beaten and killed in a garden. Can you provide the link?
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I don't have a link, but my notes say Dec 5, probably 96, for the civil trial. One other thing that bothered me about Arnelle was that some people too her so seriously about the fact that she saw no blood before OJS got home. I think influenced the jury. I would give the cops word a lot more weight than Anrelle's for the followng reasons:
Arnelle had more motives for lying than the cops. She may have loved her fater and valued her relationship with her father. She may not have wanted to alienate other relatives. She may have wanted money from her father. If she gave testimony against her father, she would appear mean spirited to others; not just family members. If her father had been convicted she would be stigmatized as the daughter of a murderer.

There were several cops who said they saw blood at the home before OJS returned, including one black cop (Donald Thompson). Ordinarily we take the word of the majority of witnesses where there is disagreement.

Arnelle would have been sleepy and upset. This may have caused her to be less observant than usual.

The scenario the dream team defense came up with was that the cops planted the blood with newsmen with cameras around were there. This isn't plausible.

Of course OJS had already admitted bleeding at his house the night before in his talk with the police, but that wasn't given to the jury. [/B]