Random Discussions On The Case

[GreenIce]

Martin and William,

I really was never impressed with FLB's cross of MF. Perhaps because when you watch it on TV, it does not have the same impact then if you read the cross.

FLB did a brilliant job on MF. I think with the focus on a word, people missed some important details.

This part of MF's cross:

Q: ALL RIGHT. DID YOU KNOW AT THAT TIME THERE WAS BLOOD IN THE BRONCO?

A: NO.

Q: HAVE YOU EVER TESTIFIED THAT THERE WAS BLOOD IN THE BRONCO?

A: I'M NOT SURE IF WE TESTIFIED TO THAT IN THE PRELIM OR NOT.


Why would MF use the word "we" in regards to testimony in the prelim?

I find it ironic that the media who often used terms associated with a team sport. When did testifying become a team sport for these detectives?

IMO, this is another arrow aimed at Lange and VA.

[tv]

Rovaan,

Petrocelli's theory has either been roundly laughed at or scorned in the media. Petrocelli wanted to claim that he and only he, could have answered all the unanswered questions in this case.

IMO, I think Petrocelli may have been motived to spin these fantasies because several criminal DA's felt that Simpson was going on trial for murder in a civil court where the burden was not as great. The rules of evidence were much different and that the media was going to make him into the avenging angel. I don't think he ever counted on them to turn on him regarding his theories. IMO.

Also, if Petrocelli truly believed this about Cathy and AC, then why didn't he go after their phone records?

Do you have a credible link to Petrocelli being scorned or laughed at in the media? I believe I've asked you this question before.

[bobaugust]

Mr. August,

I meant to say washing machine.

So, in other words, even if Arnelle and the detectives told the same story on what door they entered, etc., the clothes in the washing machine would mean nothing because the door was locked and the alarm was on?

And the DA's went out of their way to give the impression that the only door Simpson could have entered was his front door.

Also, the second search warrant clearly states, that they were not sure if there were sweats and waiting two weeks makes no sense, when they knew that day what he was wearing. They knew what he was wearing before the released Rockingham.

Did Arnelle talk about this in her deposition?

No, if Arnelle had not made the mistakes she made and had gone back to the front door and turned the house alarm back on she wouldn’t have had to fabricate the story of taking the detectives to the front door since that would have been the only way she could have later let them into the house.

There would still be a mystery of who washed the clothes in the washing machine and because some of Arnelle’s clothing was found in the washing machine and it was her laundry basket found in the laundry room she would still be suspect. But without Arnelle’s proven lies other trusted friends of Simpson he may have called could have also be speculated about; AC Cowlings who had returned from a party and was at home alone or Cathy Randa who was at her home alone. Both were familiar with Simpson’s home property.

I don’t know why the second search warrant wasn’t issued until June 28 but you are mistaken when you say the detectives knew before the release of Rockingham that Simpson was wearing a dark colored sweat suit the night of the murders. As far as I know that information never became know until Kaelin testified to it during the Grand Jury.

I have never seen Arnelle Simpson or Paula Barbieri’s depositions.

bobaugust

[martin II]

Do you have a credible link to Petrocelli being scorned or laughed at in the media? I believe I've asked you this question before.

I think if you google petro and media you may find what you want.

i found this real quick.

Reviewed by Richard R. Blake for Reader Views (12/07)

Steven H. Adler, in "Justice Defeated: Victims: OJ Simpson and the American Legal System," exposes how the trials that followed the tragedy of a double murder became a travesty of justice by those who saw O. J. Simpson's celebrity status and the murders of Nicole Simpson and Ron Goldman as a golden opportunity for making money, assuring career status, or gaining fame.

"Justice Defeated" is written in response to the book "Triumph of Justice the Final Judgment," written by Daniel Petrocelli's, attorney for Fred Goldman in the civil trial.

In his analysis of Petrocelli's book Adler convincingly argues that there was an actual perversion of justice in the handling of both trials. Adler asks the reader to consider the possibility that O. J. Simpson was not the murderer and, further, to examine the question as to why some more likely suspects were never pursued.

I enjoyed Adler's ongoing sparring match with Petrocelli throughout his book. For example, "You provide a criticism of some lawyers. You make a very large statement here, Mr. P."

He then quotes Petrocelli as writing, "Lawyers can be really deceitful; we can make powerful and passionate arguments that are just totally false."

Adler presents forensics and logical analysis to enable the reader to form their own opinion about whether or not O. J. did murder Nicole and Ron. Steven gives the reader insights into the impact of racism, the pursuit of money, manipulation of information, engineering evidence out of context, and exploitation of the media in polluting the legal system and creating popular public opinion.

Steven analyzes every aspect of Petrocelli's book, page by page, and argument by argument. He responds to each at the risk of becoming redundant. Adler takes the reader through the deposition of witnesses, the discovery stage, the jury selection and the trial itself, reiterating the main points of the civil trial and Petrocelli's supporting evidence. He covers all the stories, theories, speculations, and fabrications of the case.

Adler invites his readers to interact and get involved by acting as a member of the jury panel, to vote on possible scenarios, to submit experiences of being abused by lawyers, and to recommend improvements to how justice can truly be served in our country.

The appendix of the book includes a Jury Voting Card, comments on "The Blare of Silence," letters to O. J.'s kids, Fred Goldman, the Browns, and to Daniel Petrocelli, Esq.

In these letters Adler explains how the book evolved with more that one theme, first to recommend that before people conclude how a crime took place they should have sufficient facts. Secondly, attorneys instigate much of the problem. On this one he calls Daniel Petrocelli to task. And finally, the justice system also gets caught up in achieving a desired result rather than pursing the truth.

Adler challenges the reader to be intellectually honest and to join in a chorus speaking out against the seriousness of this dilemma. "Justice Defeated" is a wakeup call to every American and should be read by anyone involved in the Justice System or concerned about an untainted Justice in the future in America.

Permalink | Was this review helpful to you

[weezer]

I'm thinking a reviewer for Amazon probably isn't what we're looking for. :eek:

[weezer]

BUT, if we are, here are just a few of the reader reviews:

outstanding
The Most Important Book Yet on The Simpson Case,
An outstanding perspective of legal management!,
A thorough and engrossing look at the Simpson Civil suit,
Finally: closure on the Simpson saga!,
Petrocelli for President,
Petrocelli exposes Simpson as a killer/liar/extreme egotist,
Riveting! Wonderful achievement! I was mesmerized.,
Civil Trial=Post Graduate, Criminal Trial=Nursery School,
If you thought you knew it all about "the" case.....,
The Freshest and Most Complete picture of the entire saga!!!,
Better than most novels,
Not Guilty, but Certainly Responsible . . .,
POWERFUL,
Excellent and fascinating piece of work.,
Insider's View,
A refreshing story,
Finally, an OJ book where we don't dread the ending.,
Compelling and satisfying. Very well written.,
Well-written, objective, and interesting beyond belief.,
I loved this book!

[martin II]

No, if Arnelle had not made the mistakes she made and had gone back to the front door and turned the house alarm back on she wouldn’t have had to fabricate the story of taking the detectives to the front door since that would have been the only way she could have later let them into the house.

There would still be a mystery of who washed the clothes in the washing machine and because some of Arnelle’s clothing was found in the washing machine and it was her laundry basket found in the laundry room she would still be suspect. But without Arnelle’s proven lies other trusted friends of Simpson he may have called could have also be speculated about; AC Cowlings who had returned from a party and was at home alone or Cathy Randa who was at her home alone. Both were familiar with Simpson’s home property.

I don’t know why the second search warrant wasn’t issued until June 28 but you are mistaken when you say the detectives knew before the release of Rockingham that Simpson was wearing a dark colored sweat suit the night of the murders. As far as I know that information never became know until Kaelin testified to it during the Grand Jury.

I have never seen Arnelle Simpson or Paula Barbieri’s depositions.

bobaugust


Your idea that Arnell went into the house and didn't have the sense to go back out the front door and put tha alarm on is just nonsense.imo

[martin II]

http://weeklywire.com/ww/07-13-98/tw_book1.html

The really amazing thing about the Simpson story is that ultimately some justice was done. Simpson lost the one thing that was most important to him--his image. He's a ghost, wandering among us now. Fuhrman copped a plea--and as a consequence he'll probably die a bitter, thin old man believing the system he served abandoned him. L.A. was briefly riveted, anxious, shattered, and finally bored. Just like everybody else. In the end the city, and the world it represents, turned its back on the old story and started looking for a new one.

And ultimately, for the Simpson story, Triumph of Justice is nothing more than an appropriate bit of punctuation.

A comma, probably.

[tv]

BUT, if we are, here are just a few of the reader reviews:

outstanding
The Most Important Book Yet on The Simpson Case,
An outstanding perspective of legal management!,
A thorough and engrossing look at the Simpson Civil suit,
Finally: closure on the Simpson saga!,
Petrocelli for President,
Petrocelli exposes Simpson as a killer/liar/extreme egotist,
Riveting! Wonderful achievement! I was mesmerized.,
Civil Trial=Post Graduate, Criminal Trial=Nursery School,
If you thought you knew it all about "the" case.....,
The Freshest and Most Complete picture of the entire saga!!!,
Better than most novels,
Not Guilty, but Certainly Responsible . . .,
POWERFUL,
Excellent and fascinating piece of work.,
Insider's View,
A refreshing story,
Finally, an OJ book where we don't dread the ending.,
Compelling and satisfying. Very well written.,
Well-written, objective, and interesting beyond belief.,
I loved this book!

Petrocelli's theory has either been roundly laughed at or scorned in the media.

This was the claim that I was responding to and your post makes it clear that he wasn't the laughingstock this poster would like to betray him as. This poster would have us believe that everyone in the media rejected his book. That's not even close to the truth.

[martin II]

Q. And in any event, sir, you -- you moved in almost immediately after that party into the back house at Gretna Green, correct?

A. I think two weeks or so.

Q. Okay. And you lived at that house from January of 1993 to January of 1994, correct?

A. Correct.

Q. And during that period of time, you met O.J. Simpson, did you

MR. PETROCELLI: Beyond the scope, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Overruled.

A. She told me things, yes.

Q. And she told you things, for example, in February or March of 1993, you would have these little conversations with her, would you not?

A. Yeah. I don't know the exact dates but we had conversations.

Q. And she indicated to you by March of 1993 that she wanted to get back and remarry O.J. Simpson, didn't she?

MR. PETROCELLI: I'm going to object as beyond the scope and can I have a continuing objection, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Overruled.

A. It was back and forth.

Q. She told you she wanted to remarry O.J. Simpson and the best times of her life was when she was with O.J., isn't that true?

A. I think it was that good time and bad times.

Q. Did she not tell you that the best times of her life were with O.J. Simpson; yes or no, sir?

A. I mean the conversations -- there were times she said that, yes, sir.

Q. Okay. Thank you.

[martin II]

Petrocelli's theory has either been roundly laughed at or scorned in the media.

This was the claim that I was responding to and your post makes it clear that he wasn't the laughingstock this poster would like to betray him as. This poster would have us believe that everyone in the media rejected his book. That's not even close to the truth.

I don't think a poster would have you believe anything other than what you believe. How can one cause you to believe something??? You are in control of what you believe not soneone else..:cool:

[tv]

I don't think a poster would have you believe anything other than what you believe. How can one cause you to believe something??? You are in control of what you believe not soneone else..:cool:

martin, we're having a civil discussion about whether or not Petrocelli was scorned by the media. Please don't start.

[martin II]

Petrocelli's theory has either been roundly laughed at or scorned in the media.

This was the claim that I was responding to and your post makes it clear that he wasn't the laughingstock this poster would like to betray him as. This poster would have us believe that everyone in the media rejected his book. That's not even close to the truth.

Petrocellis idea that oj climbed on top of the sallingers garage and jumped over the fence was as goofy as they come.Because it was physically imposible.

[martin II]

martin, we're having a civil discussion about whether or not Petrocelli was scorned by the media. Please don't start.

I am having a civil discussion also. I just question your claim that a poster can cause you to believe something by making a claim. It would be the same if i said MF planted the glove.This would not cause you to believe it unless you wanted to. I would think you would ignore my claim if you did not believe it.imo

[tv]

Petrocellis idea that oj climbed on top of the sallingers garage and jumped over the fence was as goofy as they come.Because it was physically imposible.

I'll say it again -- I don't care if OJ Simpson got back there on a flying donkey; he was there and dropped the glove after killing Ron and Nicole.

[tv]

I am having a civil discussion also. I just question your claim that a poster can cause you to believe something by making a claim. It would be the same if i said MF planted the glove.This would not cause you to believe it unless you wanted to. I would think you would ignore my claim if you did not believe it.imo
What I said was a figure of speech. I'll try not to use it again because I can see it causes you some confusion.

[martin II]

Here Kato is trying to limit the time Mf kept him in his room.


Now, 6 o'clock, you're awakened by banging on the door, correct?

A. Approximately, right.

Q. And when you gained consciousness, you go to the door, open the door, and there is Mark Fuhrman, true?

A. Four officers. Mark Fuhrman was one of them.

Q. Mark Fuhrman is the one that comes into your room, is he not?

A. Yes.

Q. And Mark Fuhrman is the one who interrogates you in your room, is he not?

A. Yes.

Q. Now, when that door opens and there are four police officers, they identify themselves, do they not, as police officers, correct?

A. They did.

Q. And your -- the very next words out of your mouth is, what's wrong, did O.J.'s plane go down, isn't that true, sir?

A. I think I said that right away, yes.

Q. And so you informed the officers that you knew the whereabouts of Mr. Simpson, at least in the initial phases, and that he had been on an airplane, correct?

A. Correct.

Q. Now, Mark Fuhrman then started to interrogate you about your whereabouts, did he not?

A. Yes.

Q. He also interrogated you about what you had on the night before, did he not?

A. Correct.

Q. And he asked you if you had been taking drugs or alcohol, didn't he?

A. Correct.

Q. And he then gave you a stigmas test, or something like that, where he takes his flashlight and looks in your eyes?

A. It was either a pen light or flashlight, one of them.

Q. That was a test, he explained to you, to see if you ingested any drugs?

A. Something like that, yes.

Q. Now, you told -- you were kind of frightened to see four police officers, weren't you?

A. Yes.

Q. And you told the police officers, in particular Mark Fuhrman, everything you knew about the whereabouts of Mr. Simpson, didn't you?

MR. PETROCELLI: Going to object, it's irrelevant, irrelevant to any issue in the case.

THE COURT: You may answer yes or no.

A. I didn't -- I don't think I said everything, but I did say that I was very scared and talking rapidly.

Q. And you told Mark Fuhrman that Mr. Simpson was on -- had caught the plane the night before, the redeye, to go to Chicago, didn't you?

A. I might have said that to everybody, all four of them.

Q. Then you also indicated to them that O.J. Simpson was scheduled to be in Chicago at an event for Hertz the following morning, did you not?

A. I think I said he was at a Hertz event. I don't think I said what time it was scheduled.

Q. Sure.

Then you indicated that he had in fact, that is, Mr. Simpson, had an 11:45 flight out of LAX to Chicago O'Hare, or at least to Chicago, correct?

A. Redeye, I think I said.

Q. And you told them the time because you knew the time of 11:45 before anybody ever started banging on your door at 6 o'clock in the morning, correct?

A. I don't remember that.

Q. You did know the time because you had been concerned about Mr. Simpson's running a little late when you were talking to the limo driver, correct?

A. I think I just said redeye. I'm not -- I think I just said a redeye flight.

Q. Okay. And you indicated to -- well, strike that.

After you -- the door is banged on, and the person that comes in your room is Mark Fuhrman, correct?

A. I believe Phillips first, then Fuhrman. Then Fuhrman stayed with me while the rest were outside.

Q. What happened was they asked you if anybody else was on the property to your knowledge, didn't they?

A. They asked me first who I was and who lived here.

Q. I understand.

A. And if anybody else was on the property.

Q. And you told them that Arnelle was on the property and she was in the guest room to the immediate east of you, correct?

A. Right, I thought -- I said I thought Arnelle was there. So they knocked on her door.

Q. You knew Arnelle was there, you heard her come in at 1:30 in the morning?

A. I heard steps.

Q. You thought it was Arnelle?

A. Right, I thought it was Arnelle.

Q. In fact you testified in one proceeding that you felt more comfortable, less frightened, after you heard the steps at 1:30 because at least now you knew Arnelle was on the property, right?

A. Correct.

Q. Okay. So then what happened, sir, is that all the police officers, with the exception of Mark Fuhrman, leave your room, isn't that true? And go to Arnelle's?

A. I believe when Fuhrman was doing that, Phillips wasn't in the room but he was by that -- the ledge way on the cement.

Q. And Phillips left too and went to Arnelle's area, did he not?

A. I don't remember that for sure.

Q. In any event, sir, the only person that interrogated you in your area -- area of your room was Mark Fuhrman, correct?

A. Yes, when Fuhrman was in my room and I believe everyone was outside.

Q. And he made you go get your shows to show him what kind of shoes you had on the night before?

A. Shoes, pants, shirt, I believe.

Q. Then he went in and -- he went into the bathroom area and looked into the bathroom area, did he not?

A. I don't think so. I don't remember that.

Q. You don't have a recollection of testifying to that before?

A. I don't think so.

Q. How long was Fuhrman in your room?

A. Hum, between approximately minute to two minutes.

Q. Two minutes to ask you the questions and to give the test?

A. To do -- I was at the doorway while this was all happening.

Q. He got into your room?

A. He's in my room.

Q. He inspected your clothes, did he not, true?

A. I showed him, right.

Q. And he looked around your room, did he not?

A. I don't know for sure if he was walking around. But he definitely stood with me and gave me that test and talked to me.

Q. And he definitely required you to get your boots that you had been wearing the night before so he could look at them, he definitely required you to get your pants?

A. Um-hum.

Q. And he definitely required you to get your shirt, isn't that true?

A. Right. It was on that chair and then, photo, everything was laying right there.

Q. And when he was asking about whether or not you used any drugs, he went into the bathroom, did he not?

A. I don't think he did, no.

[martin II]

I'll say it again -- I don't care if OJ Simpson got back there on a flying donkey; he was there and dropped the glove after killing Ron and Nicole.

The facts that three detectives testified that NO ONE JUMPED THAT FENCE
and the fact that there was no evidence that anyone did leads me to believe that no one did. If you want to ignore those facts testified to and believe what you think happened is ok with me. I will just go with the facts.:cool:

[tv]

The facts that three detectives testified that NO ONE JUMPED THAT FENCE
and the fact that there was no evidence that anyone did leads me to believe that no one did. If you want to ignore those facts testified to and believe what you think happened is ok with me. I will just go with the facts.:cool:

Which three detectives testified to this? I'd like to read up on it.

[weezer]

I'm thinking a "first-year law student at the University of Arizona" was what we were looking for. :eek:

[tv]

I'm thinking a "first-year law student at the University of Arizona" was what we were looking for. :eek:

I suppose so. I was hoping for a link to news organizations. :shrug:

[martin II]

I'll say it again -- I don't care if OJ Simpson got back there on a flying donkey; he was there and dropped the glove after killing Ron and Nicole.

Dr LEE testified that oj would have had to be a helicopter to get over the fence and all the tall trees and bushes to the walkway. imo

[tv]

Dr LEE testified that oj would have had to be a helicopter to get over the fence and all the tall trees and bushes to the walkway. imo

I've looked through Lange and Vannatter's testimony about the possibility of OJ Simpson jumping the fence and didn't find it. Maybe I'm overlooking it.

[martin II]

Which three detectives testified to this? I'd like to read up on it.

Vannater was one i don't remember the other two. But i have posted it in discussion on the subject before.Remember vannatter stuck to his story that oj got out of the bronco,entered the gate and walked up to the driveway to his front door.That he did not go to the walkway.Two other detectives investigated the walkway and found no evidence that anyone was in the walkway.Clarke misinformed many people with her claim that oj was there and dropped the glove but she as never able to PROVE HOW THE GLOVE GOT THERE. IMO

[tv]

Vannater was one i don't remember the other two. But i have posted it in discussion on the subject before.Remember vannatter stuck to his story that oj got out of the bronco,entered the gate and walked up to the driveway to his front door.That he did not go to the walkway.Two other detectives investigated the walkway and found no evidence that anyone was in the walkway.Clarke misinformed many people with her claim that oj was there and dropped the glove but she as never able to PROVE HOW THE GLOVE GOT THERE. IMO

I just read through Vannatter and Lange's testimony looking for a reference to them saying OJ Simpson didn't jump the fence. I thought you were saying that they said that.

[weezer]

I just read through Vannatter and Lange's testimony looking for a reference to them saying OJ Simpson didn't jump the fence. I thought you were saying that they said that.

he said three but then remembered only one AND you STILL can't find a reference to anyone saying it? did I get that right?

[tv]

he said three but then remembered only one AND you STILL can't find a reference to anyone saying it? did I get that right?

That's right -- I'm looking at Mark Fuhrman's right now but haven't found it yet.

[GreenIce]

No, if Arnelle had not made the mistakes she made and had gone back to the front door and turned the house alarm back on she wouldn’t have had to fabricate the story of taking the detectives to the front door since that would have been the only way she could have later let them into the house.

There would still be a mystery of who washed the clothes in the washing machine and because some of Arnelle’s clothing was found in the washing machine and it was her laundry basket found in the laundry room she would still be suspect. But without Arnelle’s proven lies other trusted friends of Simpson he may have called could have also be speculated about; AC Cowlings who had returned from a party and was at home alone or Cathy Randa who was at her home alone. Both were familiar with Simpson’s home property.

I don’t know why the second search warrant wasn’t issued until June 28 but you are mistaken when you say the detectives knew before the release of Rockingham that Simpson was wearing a dark colored sweat suit the night of the murders. As far as I know that information never became know until Kaelin testified to it during the Grand Jury.

I have never seen Arnelle Simpson or Paula Barbieri’s depositions.

bobaugust

Mr. August,

So you are saying that if Arnelle and the detectives were all telling the same story, then Arnelle would be clear of being an accomplice to murder or an accessory after the fact.

That the clothes in the washing machine would mean nothing?

AC's and Cathy Randa's have airtight alibis all the way up until they were notified of the murders. So you strike out there.

[GreenIce]

I'll say it again -- I don't care if OJ Simpson got back there on a flying donkey; he was there and dropped the glove after killing Ron and Nicole.

TV,

Flying Donkey!:) I like that, I am surprised Petrocelli didn't come up with it first.:)

BTW, Cynthia McFadden and Geraldo, were not pleased with Petrocelli's comments about Arnelle being the accomplice on his book tour. There were at least two more but their names escape me at this moment. After that, he left it out of his interviews.

Some of the points that NG's have made about this theory were put to Petrocelli and he realized just how silly it sounded so he dropped it.

[tv]

TV,

Flying Donkey!:) I like that, I am surprised Petrocelli didn't come up with it first.:)

BTW, Cynthia McFadden and Geraldo, were not pleased with Petrocelli's comments about Arnelle being the accomplice on his book tour. There were at least two more but their names escape me at this moment. After that, he left it out of his interviews.

Some of the points that NG's have made about this theory were put to Petrocelli and he realized just how silly it sounded so he dropped it.

I haven't read or seen what Geraldo and Cynthia McFadden said about Petrocelli but I'm going to take your word for it. Four people disagreeing with Petrocelli doesn't mean he was "roundly laughed at and scorned in the media." That statement implies that most or all of the media felt this way.

[weezer]

". . .I am certain that AC Cowlings was “dropped” as a Grand Jury target because he was a cooperating “witness” for the law firm of Mitchell, Silberberg & Knupp, in a major federal drug and money laundering case. With AC Cawlings in their pocket and LAPD Robbery Homicide detectives on the pay roll of Mitchell, Silberberg & Knupp laws firm, Daniel Petrocelli had no problem “winning” a $33.5 million dollar wrongful death settlement against OJ Simpson. In his book “Triumph of Justice” Mr. Petrocelli does not discuss “Charlie” and or AC Cowlings “contributions” in the federal drug case that his firm handled a year or so earlier. . ." Bill Pavelic New Book Guilty of Incompetence

[weezer]

". . .The New York Observer's Richard Brookhiser flat-out called Simpson a murderer after the verdict, and tabloid TV honcho Geraldo Rivera, displaying unheard-of passion, has been on a veritable one-man crusade to prove Simpson guilty. . ."

[weezer]

". . .after noting that Barry Sanders had passed Simpson's career rushing yards — deadpanned "O.J. blames the LAPD for planting Sanders." . . .

:eek:

[weezer]

http://www.salon.com/media/media961126.html

[weezer]

interesting article

http://articles.latimes.com/1996-05-13/news/mn-3639_1_nicole-simpson

Lawyers Pan for Gold Simpson Depositions

[weezer]

". . .Also, the commenter, inron, is dead on the money: O.J. CAN be tried for conspiracy to commit murder without a double jeopardy problem, as can others, and there were definitely others on scene during the murders. . ." Joseph Bosco

others? arnelle and ac come to mind.

[tv]

http://www.salon.com/media/media961126.html

Great link. I laughed through most of the descriptions. :D

[tv]

". . .Also, the commenter, inron, is dead on the money: O.J. CAN be tried for conspiracy to commit murder without a double jeopardy problem, as can others, and there were definitely others on scene during the murders. . ." Joseph Bosco

others? arnelle and ac come to mind.

It sounds like an excellent idea to me. Didn't AC accompany Arnelle to get the children from the police station? That was a good time for them to have a little chat. ;)

[GreenIce]

I haven't read or seen what Geraldo and Cynthia McFadden said about Petrocelli but I'm going to take your word for it. Four people disagreeing with Petrocelli doesn't mean he was "roundly laughed at and scorned in the media." That statement implies that most or all of the media felt this way.

TV,

You have made a valid point. 4 people disagreeing with his book does not mean that every journalist discounted his theory. You are also correct, my comment did appear to indicate that every media person laughed at him or scorned his theory.

However, that being said, I do not recall one media person ever support his theory about Arnelle. I could be wrong but I don't remember this.

[tv]

TV,

You have made a valid point. 4 people disagreeing with his book does not mean that every journalist discounted his theory. You are also correct, my comment did appear to indicate that every media person laughed at him or scorned his theory.

However, that being said, I do not recall one media person ever support his theory about Arnelle. I could be wrong but I don't remember this.

I don't recall the details being discussed by media people. I saw it discussed in a general way. Everyone has their own theory -- it doesn't mean he didn't do it. Even if Geraldo did disagree with Arnelle being involved he does think OJ Simpson killed Ron and Nicole.

[GreenIce]

I don't recall the details being discussed by media people. I saw it discussed in a general way. Everyone has their own theory -- it doesn't mean he didn't do it. Even if Geraldo did disagree with Arnelle being involved he does think OJ Simpson killed Ron and Nicole.

TV Dinner,

I don't think anyone is going to change their mind about Simpson's guilt, even if they believe he had help--regardless of who it was.

[tv]

TV Dinner,

I don't think anyone is going to change their mind about Simpson's guilt, even if they believe he had help--regardless of who it was.

I agree and I don't see anyone changing their mind about his innocence even when all the evidence and his own testimony points to him as the murderer.

[GreenIce]

I agree and I don't see anyone changing their mind about his innocence even when all the evidence and his own testimony points to him as the murderer.

TV,

However, claims have been made that Arnelle was an accomplice or an accesory after the fact. The DA's had an obligation to pursue this even if Simpson was convicted, IMO.

[bobaugust]

Your idea that Arnell went into the house and didn't have the sense to go back out the front door and put tha alarm on is just nonsense.imo

The fact that Arnelle led the detectives directly to the back door of the house and opened it to let them into the house tells us she knew that door was unlocked. And the only way she could have known that was if she was the one who unlocked it from the inside. The fact that the house alarm was not on when she opened that door means she never turned the house alarm back on before she unlocked it from the inside. That’s why she lied.

bobaugust

[bobaugust]

Mr. August,

So you are saying that if Arnelle and the detectives were all telling the same story, then Arnelle would be clear of being an accomplice to murder or an accessory after the fact.

That the clothes in the washing machine would mean nothing?

AC's and Cathy Randa's have airtight alibis all the way up until they were notified of the murders. So you strike out there.

I am saying that after Arnelle started the washing machine and left the house if she hadn’t made the mistake of not turning the house alarm back on before she unlocked and exited the back door then there wouldn’t have been any reason for her to fabricate the story and lie in court about opening the front door of the house to let the detectives in.

I said there would still be a mystery of who washed the clothes found in Simpson’s washing machine and because some of the freshly washed clothing found in the washing machine were Arnelle’s and Arnelle’s laundry basket found in the laundry room, she would still be a suspect. But without the evidence of Arnelle’s lies others could also be suspects.

Petrocelli interviewed both Cowlings and Randa. Cowling’s said he went to a party and then went home where he was alone in his house and Randa said she was alone in her house. Those are not airtight alibis. Do you know of any evidence that contradicts that?

bobaugust

[martin II]

TV,

You make an excellent point. If Arnelle was involved in this, why wouldn't she just say that she did laundry and yes, that was her sweat suit? If she was willing to sneak into the main house and wash the clothes, why would she lie and say she didn't? If Arnelle claimed those clothes, then it is over.

However, there is still no proof what the dark items were. I don't think either she or the maid were asked if they could identify them. I don't think Arnelle was ever asked this question in either trial. I maybe wrong but I don't think she was.

GI

you hit on it.The reason the prosecution had the skivies about asking Arnell about the dark clothes is they did not know the answer they would get. LIKE THE SWEATS WERE MINE and i washed them because i was going to jog on 6/13 or i was going to wear them then. GAME OVER.

[martin II]

I agree and I don't see anyone changing their mind about his innocence even when all the evidence and his own testimony points to him as the murderer.

I have not read any oj testimoiny where he admitted being the killer.

[martin II]

Q. (BY MR. BAKER) O.J. ordered double meat hamburger, fries, no drink, witness ordered chicken sandwich meal, witness paid for food, O.J. ate while driving, they returned to O.J.'s house, witness entered through side of the house to his room,oj entered through front.

Now in civil trial kato testified:

He got out of the Bently and walked towards the Kitchen knook. when aske why he said he was going there to eat his food with oj.When told oj had already ate his food and would have no food to eat with him kato then juust said he saw oj standing at the bently. When asked what oj was doing kato said just standing there. after a small amount of time kato said he turned and and went to his room and he did not know where oj went.

Again which of Katos testimony is true?

[martin II]

I agree and I don't see anyone changing their mind about his innocence even when all the evidence and his own testimony points to him as the murderer.

When Kato opened the gate for the limo to leave he waited until the gate closed and he then WALKED/Ran around the ashford side of the house to his room.

He did not walk to the front door and look at the alarm pad. If he had, the light would have been RED.

So i am wondering when and how did Kato see a GREEN LIGHT ON A ALARM BOX after the limo left as you claim. imo

[Its just me]

I'll say it again -- I don't care if OJ Simpson got back there on a flying donkey; he was there and dropped the glove after killing Ron and Nicole.

You're funny and I love a sense of humor. I agree....OJ was back there and he is the one that dropped the glove. The planting of the glove came along only to divert from the truth....Kato heard loud noises against his wall exactly where the glove was later found. Anyone and everyone should know where there is NO defense....one is created and they will use these so-called experts who are paid to testify to what the one paying them wants to hear. Dr. Henry Lee is a prime example...he was caught red handed lying in the ugly a** Phil Spector case. It happened in OJ's case, Spector's case and it is going to happen in the Casey Anthony case. All three are guilty of murder and the evidence collected proved/will prove it....until the defense attorneys comes along messing it up because that is the only defense they have/had. IMHOO some buy that bridge the defense is trying to sell and some don't. I'm one of the ones who don't.

[martin II]

TV,

However, claims have been made that Arnelle was an accomplice or an accesory after the fact. The DA's had an obligation to pursue this even if Simpson was convicted, IMO.

People make all kinds of claims unproven so as to look for anything to support what they think happened. The prosecution knew the talk about Arnell was nonsense which is why they left that alone. yet some continue.imo

[tv]

TV,

However, claims have been made that Arnelle was an accomplice or an accesory after the fact. The DA's had an obligation to pursue this even if Simpson was convicted, IMO.

The prosecution knew that Arnelle had lied about the door and they knew the laundry was hers -- they didn't figure out how the two connected and I don't know if they tried.

[tv]

GI

you hit on it.The reason the prosecution had the skivies about asking Arnell about the dark clothes is they did not know the answer they would get. LIKE THE SWEATS WERE MINE and i washed them because i was going to jog on 6/13 or i was going to wear them then. GAME OVER.

I thought skivies were underwear? :shrug:

Do you seriously think that if Arnelle had given them an answer like that the game would be over? They weren't able to test the sweats anyway so it would have made no difference to their case?

[tv]

I have not read any oj testimoiny where he admitted being the killer.

I'll clarify -- his own lying testimony proved he was the killer of Ron and Nicole.

[tv]

When Kato opened the gate for the limo to leave he waited until the gate closed and he then WALKED/Ran around the ashford side of the house to his room.

He did not walk to the front door and look at the alarm pad. If he had, the light would have been RED.

So i am wondering when and how did Kato see a GREEN LIGHT ON A ALARM BOX after the limo left as you claim. imo

It's not my claim, it's Kato's claim. You'll have to read his testimony for the answer to that.

[tv]

You're funny and I love a sense of humor. I agree....OJ was back there and he is the one that dropped the glove. The planting of the glove came along only to divert from the truth....Kato heard loud noises against his wall exactly where the glove was later found. Anyone and everyone should know where there is NO defense....one is created and they will use these so-called experts who are paid to testify to what the one paying them wants to hear. Dr. Henry Lee is a prime example...he was caught red handed lying in the ugly a** Phil Spector case. It happened in OJ's case, Spector's case and it is going to happen in the Casey Anthony case. All three are guilty of murder and the evidence collected proved/will prove it....until the defense attorneys comes along messing it up because that is the only defense they have/had. IMHOO some buy that bridge the defense is trying to sell and some don't. I'm one of the ones who don't.

:beer: You're spot on, IJM. Dr. Henry Lee is charming, personable and easily wins people over but he's sold out his integrity in more than one case. The Michael Peterson trial comes to mind also. (too much blood for a beating :eek:) The defense in the Simpson case had no defense against the forensic evidence except to use the planting/framing theory. I'm not buying the defense's bridge and honestly, I don't think the jury did either but it gave them a reason to acquit.

As for the flying donkey, it's fun to picture it. :D

[martin II]

It's not my claim, it's Kato's claim. You'll have to read his testimony for the answer to that.

You made the claim in your post. Kato didn't post here you did,you didn't post katos testimony right.

[martin II]

It's not my claim, it's Kato's claim. You'll have to read his testimony for the answer to that.

Then it is another lie by kato posted by you?

[martin II]

:beer: You're spot on, IJM. Dr. Henry Lee is charming, personable and easily wins people over but he's sold out his integrity in more than one case. The Michael Peterson trial comes to mind also. (too much blood for a beating :eek:) The defense in the Simpson case had no defense against the forensic evidence except to use the planting/framing theory. I'm not buying the defense's bridge and honestly, I don't think the jury did either but it gave them a reason to acquit.

As for the flying donkey, it's fun to picture it. :D

With proof there is only speculation. wild speculation.

[GreenIce]

I am saying that after Arnelle started the washing machine and left the house if she hadn’t made the mistake of not turning the house alarm back on before she unlocked and exited the back door then there wouldn’t have been any reason for her to fabricate the story and lie in court about opening the front door of the house to let the detectives in.

I said there would still be a mystery of who washed the clothes found in Simpson’s washing machine and because some of the freshly washed clothing found in the washing machine were Arnelle’s and Arnelle’s laundry basket found in the laundry room, she would still be a suspect. But without the evidence of Arnelle’s lies others could also be suspects.

Petrocelli interviewed both Cowlings and Randa. Cowling’s said he went to a party and then went home where he was alone in his house and Randa said she was alone in her house. Those are not airtight alibis. Do you know of any evidence that contradicts that?

bobaugust

Mr. August,

No, I don't know of any evidence that contradicts what Petrocelli has said, but I do not matter, Petrocelli knows that he can say what he wants because he knows if there is any evidence to contradict what he says, it will never see the light of day.

Petrocelli and your support of his theory regarding Arnelle is based by perjured testimony of 4 detectives, one of which who clear contradicts what Kato said.

Only the serious hard core G's would believe this rubbish because Arnelle can only be an accomplice---she HAD to know what her father's plans were that night and he HAD to know what her plans were that night.

There is no evidence to support that AC Cowlings, Arnelle and/or Cathy Randa would allow themselves to be involved in the murder of Nicole. Either before or after the fact. There is no evidence only your fantasy.

In your imagination you have chosen to believe 4 people who have turned testifying into a team sport, Mark Furhman confirmed this during his cross by FLB. We know on key issues they teamed up and we know on other issues they have contradicted each other.

The detectives needed to lie to get into the main house, Arnelle did not need to lie about going into the main house or turn off the alarm. Her testimony has been consistent, the 4 detectives and Kato's has not been consistent.

To be clear, I don't trust anything Kato says in the civil trial but that does not mean I think he is lying.

Marcia Clark confirmed Arnelle's story when she pleaded with the judge to hold Simpson over for trial. She clearly said that she was leading them to the front door when she was asked about the maid.

She was very clear in her case in chief regarding which door was entered because she had to find a reason why Simpson would have had to have entered his front door. She had a blood trail to worry about.

You need evidence to support that the people you are accusing have any involvement. To accuse someone of a felony with any solid evidence is bashing these people.

One last thing, AC's fingerprint was found in blood on the Bronco, Chris Darden exploded over this powerful information, yet nothing came of it. Explain that to me? Did Petrocelli talk about that?

[GreenIce]

Do you seriously think that if Arnelle had given them an answer like that the game would be over? They weren't able to test the sweats anyway so it would have made no difference to their case?

TV,

According to at least two books, the dark items were in fact taken from the washing machine and were tested for blood. Lange and Vanatter never come out and that exactly, but is clear from their book the media and MF were making something out of nothing.

There is no testimony that the dark items that were seen in the washing machine were a sweat suit. What color it was, if it fit the description that Kato gave, what it was made of and if the fibers were consistent with ones found at Bundy.

No state witness, including the man who took the video tape of the contents of the washer ever stated that it was a man's sweat suit.

Marcia Clark has the sweats in a hamper upstairs or what she felt could have been them. MF and Petrocelli are the only two people saying they were sweats.

However, even if they were sweats, that does not mean the fibers would have matched up or the color was correct. Why wasn't the maid or Arnelle asked if they knew what the dark items were?

"Accomplice to Murder" Arnelle (has a different ring to it, doesn't it?) was never asked about the dark items in the washer.

[GreenIce]

When Kato opened the gate for the limo to leave he waited until the gate closed and he then WALKED/Ran around the ashford side of the house to his room.

He did not walk to the front door and look at the alarm pad. If he had, the light would have been RED.

So i am wondering when and how did Kato see a GREEN LIGHT ON A ALARM BOX after the limo left as you claim. imo

Martin,

I just thought of something. Was there any testimony regarding which keys opened which doors? Was there one key that opened all the doors that had outside locks on the door?

We Arnelle's keys checked to see which key opened which door on the estate?

[weezer]

I don't recall the details being discussed by media people. I saw it discussed in a general way. Everyone has their own theory -- it doesn't mean he didn't do it. Even if Geraldo did disagree with Arnelle being involved he does think OJ Simpson killed Ron and Nicole.

did you find where Geraldo disagreed with the arnelle theory? I haven't been able to.:shrug:

[GreenIce]

Martin,

Wouldn't the drain attached to the washing machine also be checked for blood? It appears to me that most people seem to believe that if there was blood on the clothes, it would have disappeared and there would be no trace of it. Yet, all the drains in Simpson's bathroom were torn apart and the found nothing they could use.

[martin II]

It's not my claim, it's Kato's claim. You'll have to read his testimony for the answer to that.

i have read katos testimony for the last 3 days have seen nothing even close to him saying what you claim he said.imo
Seeing a green light on the alarm pad.

[martin II]

Martin,

I just thought of something. Was there any testimony regarding which keys opened which doors? Was there one key that opened all the doors that had outside locks on the door?

We Arnelle's keys checked to see which key opened which door on the estate?

i remember something about one key fits all but not sure.There was only three doors with outside locks as far as i remember.

[bobaugust]

Mr. August,

No, I don't know of any evidence that contradicts what Petrocelli has said, but I do not matter, Petrocelli knows that he can say what he wants because he knows if there is any evidence to contradict what he says, it will never see the light of day.

Petrocelli and your support of his theory regarding Arnelle is based by perjured testimony of 4 detectives, one of which who clear contradicts what Kato said.

Only the serious hard core G's would believe this rubbish because Arnelle can only be an accomplice---she HAD to know what her father's plans were that night and he HAD to know what her plans were that night.

There is no evidence to support that AC Cowlings, Arnelle and/or Cathy Randa would allow themselves to be involved in the murder of Nicole. Either before or after the fact. There is no evidence only your fantasy.

In your imagination you have chosen to believe 4 people who have turned testifying into a team sport, Mark Furhman confirmed this during his cross by FLB. We know on key issues they teamed up and we know on other issues they have contradicted each other.

The detectives needed to lie to get into the main house, Arnelle did not need to lie about going into the main house or turn off the alarm. Her testimony has been consistent, the 4 detectives and Kato's has not been consistent.

To be clear, I don't trust anything Kato says in the civil trial but that does not mean I think he is lying.

Marcia Clark confirmed Arnelle's story when she pleaded with the judge to hold Simpson over for trial. She clearly said that she was leading them to the front door when she was asked about the maid.

She was very clear in her case in chief regarding which door was entered because she had to find a reason why Simpson would have had to have entered his front door. She had a blood trail to worry about.

You need evidence to support that the people you are accusing have any involvement. To accuse someone of a felony with any solid evidence is bashing these people.

One last thing, AC's fingerprint was found in blood on the Bronco, Chris Darden exploded over this powerful information, yet nothing came of it. Explain that to me? Did Petrocelli talk about that?

The undisputed fact is that the four detectives and Kato Kaelin all testified they entered Simpson’s house through the back door. The detectives would have no reason to lie about this fact; it didn’t help the case against Simpson to say they went on through the back. Kaelin had no reason to lie about this and his testimony corroborates the detectives testimony. At the time it was an innocuous fact.

Nothing Fuhrman said contradicted Kaelin’s testimony that he saw Arnelle Simpson enter the back of the house leading the three detectives with keys in her hand. Nothing Fuhrman said contradicted Kaelin’s testimony that he and Fuhrman followed them into the house through the same door. There are always going to be minor discrepancies between witnesses who testify about the same event. It’s not minor discrepancies that are important, it’s what they agree on that tells us what happened.

Arnelle Simpson’s story was an uncorroborated fabrication. There is absolutely no doubt that the four detectives and Kato Kaelin all entered Simpson’s house through the back door that Arnelle Simpson opened. That fact impeached Arnelle Simpson’s story and proved she was lying. That’s what impeachment does.

bobaugust

[martin II]

Martin,

Wouldn't the drain attached to the washing machine also be checked for blood? It appears to me that most people seem to believe that if there was blood on the clothes, it would have disappeared and there would be no trace of it. Yet, all the drains in Simpson's bathroom were torn apart and the found nothing they could use.
I doubt a murder suit worn at bundy with all that blood splattering all over the place could be washed completely clean.. Or when LE took the dark clothing to the lab they found it was nothinhg but a pair of black denium jeans.

[tv]

You made the claim in your post. Kato didn't post here you did,you didn't post katos testimony right. Kato testified that the light was green. That makes it Kato's claim.

[tv]

Then it is another lie by kato posted by you?

Whether you believe Kato or not is your choice.

[tv]

With proof there is only speculation. wild speculation.

Interesting thing to say.

[tv]

did you find where Geraldo disagreed with the arnelle theory? I haven't been able to.:shrug:

I've looked but haven't come up with anything yet. :shrug:

[Its just me]

Kato testified that the light was green. That makes it Kato's claim.

Right.

He also said after Simpson called him to set the alarm and he did....the light turned to red. Meaning it was set properly and on. IIRC and IMHOO and such.

[tv]

i have read katos testimony for the last 3 days have seen nothing even close to him saying what you claim he said.imo
Seeing a green light on the alarm pad.

It's there. I don't make things up. Besides, didn't you post about this before?

[tv]

Right.

He also said after Simpson called him to set the alarm and he did....the light turned to red. Meaning it was set properly and on. IIRC and IMHOO and such.

Thank you, IJM. I knew that the green light was in his testimony because I read it several times. I don't know why martin can't find it. :shrug:

[Hipcheck]

www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,230025,00.html

Don't you just love Geraldo?

[martin II]

Martin,

Wouldn't the drain attached to the washing machine also be checked for blood? It appears to me that most people seem to believe that if there was blood on the clothes, it would have disappeared and there would be no trace of it. Yet, all the drains in Simpson's bathroom were torn apart and the found nothing they could use.

They sure could have tested the pipes for blood but le they took the clothes
with them so i guess they thought they did not need to do the pipe test.

The other thing is when kato went to the back office to type his letter all he had to do was open the door from that room and walk into the laundry room.
The dark clothing could belong to him.

[tv]

www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,230025,00.html

Don't you just love Geraldo?

I sure do. He's telling it like it is in this link. :)

[weezer]

www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,230025,00.html

Don't you just love Geraldo?

I think part of his outrage was his being snookered by orenthal and the criminal defense during the trial. . .

[weezer]

http://www.iamboredr.com/media/15426/OJ_Simpson's_news/

:beer::beer:

[weezer]

Right.

He also said after Simpson called him to set the alarm and he did....the light turned to red. Meaning it was set properly and on. IIRC and IMHOO and such.

sooooo -- I guess it had to have been 'green' before it turned 'red'. . . .of course, anyone that has an alarm or has had an opportunity to set an alarm knows that.

[martin II]

Thank you, IJM. I knew that the green light was in his testimony because I read it several times. I don't know why martin can't find it. :shrug:

When kato set the alarm, the light was expected to turn red. Anyone that ever seen a alarm knows that.
BUT based on katos several testimonies about how he went from the Rockingham gate to his room he had no opportunity to see any alarm pad.

He must have just lied if you did see it in his testimony. But that is not unusual for Kato which is why it is always difficult to know what is the truth when he testifies. imo:cool:

[tv]

http://www.iamboredr.com/media/15426/OJ_Simpson's_news/

:beer::beer:

:beer:

[tv]

sooooo -- I guess it had to have been 'green' before it turned 'red'. . . .of course, anyone that has an alarm or has had an opportunity to set an alarm knows that.

I would say you're right...green/off, red/on...seems very simple to me.

[martin II]

sooooo -- I guess it had to have been 'green' before it turned 'red'. . . .

Correct. It was green because the alarm was off because oj walked out of the house and he and kato walked in and then out. No surprise there.
After kato set the alarm, the front door alarm remained on red until Arnell brought the detectives to that door, Punched in the 3-4 numbers on the pad , unlocked the door with the keys kato said she had in her hand.:cool:imo

[tv]

Correct. It was green because the alarm was off because oj walked out of the house and he and kato walked in and then out. No surprise there.
After kato set the alarm, the front door alarm remained on red until Arnell brought the detectives to that door, Punched in the 3-4 numbers on the pad , unlocked the door with the keys kato said she had in her hand.:cool:imo

Arnelle's testimony has been impeached by the detectives and Kato.

[martin II]

Here us some more information about Petrocelli's theory:

"Petrocelli also speculated that Simpson's friend Al Cowlings, Simpson's adult daughter, Arnelle, or secretary Cathy Randa washed two loads of laundry -- one "maybe to wash some sweatsuit outfit that had blood on it" and a second to clean out the washing machine.

"I have no evidence that says it's any of those people," Petrocelli said. "I only know it had to be someone extremely loyal to O.J. Simpson.""

http://cjonline.com/stories/043098/new_marcusoj.shtml

Even Petrocelli knows he has no evidence Arnelle washed two loads of laundry.

Often times petrocelli would toss out nonsense,talking to the jury, and then abandon his idea.imo

[tv]

Often times petrocelli would toss out nonsense,talking to the jury, and then abandon his idea.imo

Petrocelli never abandoned the idea about the laundry as you are aware.

[martin II]

Arnelle's testimony has been impeached by the detectives and Kato.

The detectives asked Arnell to get her keys. she immediately did so and led them to the front door as they were in a rush to see if anyone in the house was injured. Kato could not have entered with Arnell and the others because he was in his room with MF being given the drug test, while MF searched his room and questioned him. Kato just said what her was told to say and he lied.:cool:

[martin II]

Petrocelli never abandoned the idea about the laundry as you are aware.

He is quoted as saying SOMEONE used the washing machine but he never ever proved it. Just another unproven idea he tossed out as he was known to do.:cool: Who in the world is SOMEONE.?

[martin II]

THE only reason Arnell retrieved her keys from her room is she knew she had to have them to open the front door.
Remember the only other doors where there was a exterior lock was in the garage and the laundry room door in the s walkway.So the keyts had to be for the front door. Regardless of what some think. imo

[tv]

The detectives asked Arnell to get her keys. she immediately did so and led them to the front door as they were in a rush to see if anyone in the house was injured. Kato could not have entered with Arnell and the others because he was in his room with MF being given the drug test, while MF searched his room and questioned him. Kato just said what her was told to say and he lied.:cool:

You are misstating the evidence. Speaking of proof -- you have none that Kato was told what to say and lied. His testimony is consistent with the detectives.

[tv]

THE only reason Arnell retrieved her keys from her room is she knew she had to have them to open the front door.
Remember the only other doors where there was a exterior lock was in the garage and the laundry room door in the s walkway.So the keyts had to be for the front door. Regardless of what some think. imo

Just because she had keys in her hand doesn't mean she used them.

[tv]

He is quoted as saying SOMEONE used the washing machine but he never ever proved it. Just another unproven idea he tossed out as he was known to do.:cool: Who in the world is SOMEONE.?

I'm going to take a guess based on testimony and evidence and say Arnelle Lorraine Simpson is SOMEONE.

[martin II]

tv
LOS ANGELES -- O.J. Simpson killed his ex-wife because she had resumed an affair with football player Marcus Allen, attorney Daniel Petrocelli said in an interview.

Don't forget i posted Katos testimony where he testified that OJ DID NOT CARE IF NICOLE WAS SEEING Marcus Allen OR ANY OTHER PERSON.
So again Petrocelli was just talking out the side of his neck.He had no proof.
He was just entertaining the reporter.:cool:

[martin II]

I'm going to take a guess based on testimony and evidence and say Arnelle Lorraine Simpson is SOMEONE.

Nothing wrong with making a guess when there is no proof.The prosecution did that a lot in this case.But guess dosen't get it.imo

[Its just me]

sooooo -- I guess it had to have been 'green' before it turned 'red'. . . .of course, anyone that has an alarm or has had an opportunity to set an alarm knows that.


Yep, if the alarm is off that little green light is on....Once Kato set the alarm he said he saw the little red light come on. It's so simple isn't it. :)
ETA:
LOL but in doing some back reading I saw where someone not knowing the working of the red and green light could become confussed.;)

[tv]

tv
LOS ANGELES -- O.J. Simpson killed his ex-wife because she had resumed an affair with football player Marcus Allen, attorney Daniel Petrocelli said in an interview.

Don't forget i posted Katos testimony where he testified that OJ DID NOT CARE IF NICOLE WAS SEEING Marcus Allen OR ANY OTHER PERSON.
So again Petrocelli was just talking out the side of his neck.He had no proof.
He was just entertaining the reporter.:cool:

Everyone has their own theory. I seriously doubt if Kato really knew OJ Simpson's true feelings about his personal life. After all, he had no idea that Simpson was considering killing Nicole.

[tv]

Yep, if the alarm is off that little green light is on....Once Kato set the alarm he said he saw the little red light come on. It's so simple isn't it. :)
ETA:
LOL but in doing some back reading I saw where someone not knowing the working of the red and green light could become confussed.;)

I hope everyone is now aware of how Simpson's alarm system worked. Kato and IIRC Simpson also explained it.

[martin II]

Just because she had keys in her hand doesn't mean she used them.

If she thouight she didn't need the keys she would not have retreived them from her room. Thats what i think.

[tv]

If she thouight she didn't need the keys she would not have retreived them from her room. Thats what i think.

She may not have remembered the door was unlocked until she was walking to the house or she automatically grabbed the keys when the detectives asked her to...it could be one of several different things.

[martin II]

I hope everyone is now aware of how Simpson's alarm system worked. Kato and IIRC Simpson also explained it.

I DON'T THINK anyone does not understand that when the alarm is off the light is green and when on it is red.So i don't understand why it is still discussed.
My point is Kato did not see a greeb light on the alarm pad. If someone thinks he did please explain how.

[martin II]

She may not have remembered the door was unlocked until she was walking to the house or she automatically grabbed the keys when the detectives asked her to...it could be one of several different things.

That is only ture if one is trying very hard to create something that is not supported by the facts.But i reralize that that does happen.
Arnell was asked specifically to get her keys.Thats why she did. No other reason.

[martin II]

She may not have remembered the door was unlocked until she was walking to the house or she automatically grabbed the keys when the detectives asked her to...it could be one of several different things.

No dooor in the house was unlocked when the cops asked her to get her keys. Arnell unlocked the south door when she left the cops in the kitchen and went to get dressed in her room.
PS Kato was at his room with MF when she passed to go to her room and when she returned back past his door going back to the house.

[martin II]

Everyone has their own theory. I seriously doubt if Kato really knew OJ Simpson's true feelings about his personal life. After all, he had no idea that Simpson was considering killing Nicole.

Maby you reject Katos testimony because it does not sound good to you. Maby? But i think Kato would be a better judge than anyone here.He is the one that had the conversation with oj.:cool:

ps
I have already explained how motion detectors work so can we not bring that up again.

[martin II]

She may not have remembered the door was unlocked until she was walking to the house or she automatically grabbed the keys when the detectives asked her to...it could be one of several different things.

I think it is best that i go with the testimony. Not made up stuff.

[tv]

I DON'T THINK anyone does not understand that when the alarm is off the light is green and when on it is red.So i don't understand why it is still discussed.
My point is Kato did not see a greeb light on the alarm pad. If someone thinks he did please explain how.

Kato's testimony is that he saw the green light before going to his room. Why is it hard for you to believe that he could have seen the green light?

[weezer]

She may not have remembered the door was unlocked until she was walking to the house or she automatically grabbed the keys when the detectives asked her to...it could be one of several different things.

her little ole heart must have been beating fast and she had to have had a thousand thoughts going thru her brain: does this have anything to do with the call from daddy? does this have anything to do with me washing what he put in the washer? boy, is he going to be mad when he finds out I messed up and didn't lock the house back up! :eek:

[weezer]

Kato's testimony is that he saw the green light before going to his room. Why is it hard for you to believe that he could have seen the green light?

I think at this point, it's not a matter of believing, it's just a matter of arguing. :shrug:

[weezer]

She may not have remembered the door was unlocked until she was walking to the house or she automatically grabbed the keys when the detectives asked her to...it could be one of several different things.

IIRC, it was the detectives that actually asked if she had keys.

[martin II]

Everyone has their own theory. I seriously doubt if Kato really knew OJ Simpson's true feelings about his personal life. After all, he had no idea that Simpson was considering killing Nicole.

There is testimony that oj did discuss personal issues with Kato.

[tv]

Maby you reject Katos testimony because it does not sound good to you. Maby? But i think Kato would be a better judge than anyone here.He is the one that had the conversation with oj.:cool:

ps
I have already explained how motion detectors work so can we not bring that up again.

I'm not rejecting Kato's testimony. Maybe he's right -- maybe Petrocelli's theory about Marcus Allen is right. That doesn't change whether or not OJ Simpson killed Ron and Nicole.

PS When did I mention motion detectors? I understand how they work.

[tv]

There is testimony that oj did discuss personal issues with Kato.

I believe he did but I don't necessarily believe he was telling Kato how he really felt. Kato and OJ Simpson were not friends.

[martin II]

Kato's testimony is that he saw the green light before going to his room. Why is it hard for you to believe that he could have seen the green light?

Simple answer. Kato testified that when oj and Park left the rockingham gate
he waited until the gate had closed and he then ran to the Ashford side of the house, then south past the pool area to his room, ate his food and made a phone call or ate his food while on the phone.

There was no alarm pad any place near where he said he ran so he could not have seen a green light on any alarm pad. imo
I posted this before.

[martin II]

I believe he did but I don't necessarily believe he was telling Kato how he really felt. Kato and OJ Simpson were not friends.

Well i will go with the testimony since on this issue it did not change.I believe he told Kato how he felt. Kato believed him thats why he testified as he did.
Dont forget you were not a party to the conversations.imo

[tv]

her little ole heart must have been beating fast and she had to have had a thousand thoughts going thru her brain: does this have anything to do with the call from daddy? does this have anything to do with me washing what he put in the washer? boy, is he going to be mad when he finds out I messed up and didn't lock the house back up! :eek:

Yep, she was in an awkward position to say the least. She didn't know what it was all about so she didn't know what to do or say to the detectives. IMO, as soon as she heard that Nicole had been killed she knew daddy had done it. I don't think OJ Simpson thought the detectives would be at Rockingham that soon after the murders.

[martin II]

I'm not rejecting Kato's testimony. Maybe he's right -- maybe Petrocelli's theory about Marcus Allen is right. That doesn't change whether or not OJ Simpson killed Ron and Nicole.

PS When did I mention motion detectors? I understand how they work.

i know you know about motioon detectors.

[martin II]

Yep, she was in an awkward position to say the least. She didn't know what it was all about so she didn't know what to do or say to the detectives. IMO, as soon as she heard that Nicole had been killed she knew daddy had done it. I don't think OJ Simpson thought the detectives would be at Rockingham that soon after the murders.

That is what i mean about making stuff up.

[tv]

i know you know about motioon detectors.

Then why ask me not to mention them? I've never mentioned them to you as I can remember.

[tv]

Simple answer. Kato testified that when oj and Park left the rockingham gate
he waited until the gate had closed and he then ran to the Ashford side of the house, then south past the pool area to his room, ate his food and made a phone call or ate his food while on the phone.

There was no alarm pad any place near where he said he ran so he could not have seen a green light on any alarm pad. imo
I posted this before.

martin, this is from your post #19049 -- "...He did not walk to the front door and look at the alarm pad. If he had, the light would have been RED.

So i am wondering when and how did Kato see a GREEN LIGHT ON A ALARM BOX after the limo left as you claim. imo"

Why would Kato see a red light? Simpson testified in the civil trial that he didn't set the alarm, Kato couldn't have set it because he didn't know the code. When the alarm isn't set the light is green. Do you think it's possible that the alarm set itself? :confused:

[weezer]

I believe he did but I don't necessarily believe he was telling Kato how he really felt. Kato and OJ Simpson were not friends.

IIRC, kato testified that orenthal was going on and on about what Nicole had worn to the recital. Her family and friends said she looked great. I've never understood why he would even care what she had on EXCEPT he still considered her his property. kato also testified that orenthal was upset and complaining about Nicole not letting him see Sydney -- I think he was using Sydney as an excuse -- I think he was really mad about being dissed by her.

[tv]

IIRC, kato testified that orenthal was going on and on about what Nicole had worn to the recital. Her family and friends said she looked great. I've never understood why he would even care what she had on EXCEPT he still considered her his property. kato also testified that orenthal was upset and complaining about Nicole not letting him see Sydney -- I think he was using Sydney as an excuse -- I think he was really mad about being dissed by her.

I agree and I'll go one step further. I think he flew home for one day to attend the recital because he knew he'd see Nicole. It was unusual for him to go out of his way to attend his children's functions. I agree -- being rejected by her infuriated him.

[Its just me]

IIRC, kato testified that orenthal was going on and on about what Nicole had worn to the recital. Her family and friends said she looked great. I've never understood why he would even care what she had on EXCEPT he still considered her his property. kato also testified that orenthal was upset and complaining about Nicole not letting him see Sydney -- I think he was using Sydney as an excuse -- I think he was really mad about being dissed by her.

Here is a video with OJ saying Nicole was his woman....he said "My Woman"

It's at the very end and note the look on Nicole's face.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7MDyAm3K78&feature=related

[tv]

Here is a video with OJ saying Nicole was his woman....he said "My Woman"

It's at the very end and note the look on Nicole's face.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7MDyAm3K78&feature=related

Very telling. The look on her face probably went unnoticed by everyone there because he dominates every situation he's in and all eyes were on him. So, five weeks before he killed her he was telling people she was his woman. Hmm...I thought he was committed to Paula Barbieri.

[Its just me]

Very telling. The look on her face probably went unnoticed by everyone there because he dominates every situation he's in and all eyes were on him. So, five weeks before he killed her he was telling people she was his woman. Hmm...I thought he was committed to Paula Barbieri.

That's what he said....The best I could understand him...he said "we're live right now and all across America ?? she's my woman". Announcing it to the world clearly shows her being “his woman” was important to him.

[tv]

That's what he said....The best I could understand him...he said "we're live right now and all across America ?? she's my woman". Announcing it to the world clearly shows her being “his woman” was important to him.

You can tell by the way she steps back that she didn't like the limelight. I'm surprised he was so over the top about being on live tv. Looks like that would have been old hat to him. I think Nicole being his woman was very important to him. There was testimony that he'd said this kind of thing loudly and in public in the past.

[martin II]

You can tell by the way she steps back that she didn't like the limelight. I'm surprised he was so over the top about being on live tv. Looks like that would have been old hat to him. I think Nicole being his woman was very important to him. There was testimony that he'd said this kind of thing loudly and in public in the past.

That must have been before the divoice because when she was killed paula had taken over nicoles spot.

[tv]

That must have been before the divoice because when she was killed paula had taken over nicoles spot.

It was five weeks before the murders.

[William Anthony]

Just before Darden showed Gigi the video tape of the washing machine he asked her.

MR. DARDEN: You wouldn't leave for the weekend and leave wet laundry in the washing machine, would you?
MS. GUARIN: No, I will not.

You say that Lange, Phillips, Vannatter, Fuhrman, and Kaelin corroborate Arnelle Simpson’s story? Based on that comment I’m sorry to say you don’t seem to know the difference between impeachment and corroboration.

The fact is that the four detectives and Kato Kaelin all testified that they entered Simpson’s house that morning through the back door of the house, not the front door. Their testimony clearly impeached Arnelle Simpson’s story that she led two detectives around to the front of the house and opened the front door to let them into the house, it did not corroborate it.

The video showing the back door could not be locked or unlocked from the outside clearly proved the three detectives were mistaken about Arnelle unlocking it before she opened it. That video also proved that the door was already unlocked because Arnelle was able to open it. That video and the three detective’s testimony had absolutely nothing to do with the front door that Arnelle fabricated a story about.

bobaugust

WTH? Read the testimony question and answer.

The detectives, imho, testilied.

[William Anthony]

I listed the evidence that points to Arnelle Simpson as the person who washed the clothing in Simpson’s washing machine before the police arrived and I said based on that evidence a logical inference can be made as to why she did that and why she then lied in court. She didn’t just do that out of the blue, I think it is reasonable to infer she was told to do it by her father. Based on the fact that Simpson flew to Chicago before Arnelle got home that night he would have called her when he landed in Chicago. Based on the time difference between LA and Chicago Arnelle would have received his call about an hour or so before the police arrived at Rockingham.

bobaugust

Your admit that inferences come from evidence. So, how can you say, "there is only the logical inference that he did" and "That’s correct, there is no evidence that Simpson called Arnelle and told her to wash his dark colored sweat suit." It is like saying, because there is no evidence, it is logical to infer that someone did something, which is not how our court's work but I see the court of public opinion does.

bobaugust"?

[Its just me]

It was five weeks before the murders.

According to this snip Paula was not OJ's woman....or not in her mind. There are questions about OJ and Paula in OJ's civil trial depostiton. (s) It appears OJ was telling more lies. :shrug:

http://www.justicejunction.com/judicial_injustice_oj_evidence_eyewitness.htm
Paula Barbieri testified by video in the civil trial that judging from the messages Simpson left on her answering machine (which by the way Simpson stated in his deposition that she didn't have an answering machine, and he never left her a message) that from the content of those messages he had indeed gotten her message. Simpson had contended through the civil trial that he had not gotten Paula's 7:06 a.m. message that she was breaking up with him. Phone records, however, show that he did call his message service for a period of about 10 minutes. The phone records also show that he attempted to call Paula at least 8 times from his cell phone and another 8-10 times from his home phone. Further proof to Simpson's receiving the message is a call he placed to an old time friend (he had once dated) and left a message for her to call him because "for the first time in my life, I'm free." Now, judging from that message, wouldn't you assume that he had indeed gotten the message from Paula?

[William Anthony]

I repeat. In the civil trial Park was responding to questions that were never asked before.

bobaugust

If he was never asked before, how could his memory of those minor details differed slightly or, more precisely, how do you know?

[martin II]

It was five weeks before the murders.

tv

If nicole was long ago finished with oj. what was she doing in that club drinking and partying with him five weeks before she was killed. she looked to be having a great time.
i have always said they both looked like they were "juiced." hahaha
ps this video has been posted before.

[William Anthony]

Why would Mark Fuhrman tell the prosecutors about a screen play he wrote years ago? What exactly does Mark Fuhramn writting a screen play have to do with the murers of Nicole and Ron?

Mark Fuhrman had no idea that F. Flea Bailey was going to ask him he if had ever used the "N" word and Ito should have never allowed that question to be asked in the first place.

What was the name of the screen play that MF wrote? I believe that those who studied the law found that Judge Ito was on solid ground when he allowed the question. Additionally, a subsequent and different judge agreed with Ito as to whether the question was proper and convicted MF of perjury.

[William Anthony]

And the "NG's" just hate reading this.

An interesting observation on your part, indicating the realization that the post, to which you responded, is agitating, inflammatory and a form of baiting, IMHO?

[William Anthony]

William,

IMO, what some G's are forgetting that real issue with MF is if he planted or manufactured evidence in the Simpson case. IMO, refuse to see the real reason why he took the fifth and why he plead out his case rather fight it out in court.

GreernIce,

You got to know when to hold them, know when to fold them...

[William Anthony]

The interesting question is why didn't anyone ask Ms. Arnelle did she wash any clothes over the weekend. I am still awaiting evidence that there was a wet or freshly washed sweatsuit in the washing machine.

[martin II]

You can tell by the way she steps back that she didn't like the limelight. I'm surprised he was so over the top about being on live tv. Looks like that would have been old hat to him. I think Nicole being his woman was very important to him. There was testimony that he'd said this kind of thing loudly and in public in the past.

Nicole didn't seem to have a problem with it, remember she told kato that her ultimute goal was to get back with oj and remarry him. Her IRS sceme proved that.She was trying to get back to rockingham.

[William Anthony]

Martin and William,

I really was never impressed with FLB's cross of MF. Perhaps because when you watch it on TV, it does not have the same impact then if you read the cross.

FLB did a brilliant job on MF. I think with the focus on a word, people missed some important details.

This part of MF's cross:

Q: ALL RIGHT. DID YOU KNOW AT THAT TIME THERE WAS BLOOD IN THE BRONCO?

A: NO.

Q: HAVE YOU EVER TESTIFIED THAT THERE WAS BLOOD IN THE BRONCO?

A: I'M NOT SURE IF WE TESTIFIED TO THAT IN THE PRELIM OR NOT.


Why would MF use the word "we" in regards to testimony in the prelim?

I find it ironic that the media who often used terms associated with a team sport. When did testifying become a team sport for these detectives?

IMO, this is another arrow aimed at Lange and VA.

GreenIce,

I think his use of the word, "we", was in regard to his, shall we say, confused tongue as he did not what his tongue would say.:)

[martin II]

William
hi

Based on some post it appears that oj was on trial for being untruthful not liable.imo

[William Anthony]

William
hi

Based on some post it appears that oj was on trial for being untruthful not liable.imo

Hey,

It seems that there is some sinister motive attached to certain witnesses' testimonies but for others it is simply mistakes, human error, chalked up to assumptions or purported irrelevant lies.

[tv]

According to this snip Paula was not OJ's woman....or not in her mind. There are questions about OJ and Paula in OJ's civil trial depostiton. (s) It appears OJ was telling more lies. :shrug:

http://www.justicejunction.com/judicial_injustice_oj_evidence_eyewitness.htm
Paula Barbieri testified by video in the civil trial that judging from the messages Simpson left on her answering machine (which by the way Simpson stated in his deposition that she didn't have an answering machine, and he never left her a message) that from the content of those messages he had indeed gotten her message. Simpson had contended through the civil trial that he had not gotten Paula's 7:06 a.m. message that she was breaking up with him. Phone records, however, show that he did call his message service for a period of about 10 minutes. The phone records also show that he attempted to call Paula at least 8 times from his cell phone and another 8-10 times from his home phone. Further proof to Simpson's receiving the message is a call he placed to an old time friend (he had once dated) and left a message for her to call him because "for the first time in my life, I'm free." Now, judging from that message, wouldn't you assume that he had indeed gotten the message from Paula?
Imo, it was one of the factors that contributed to his rage. There was no reason for him to lie about trying to reach Paula or picking up her message except he wanted it to appear that he was still with her and unconcerned about Nicole. The 10:03 pm call from his cell phone to Paula puts him in his Bronco and not at home when he said he was.

[tv]

Nicole didn't seem to have a problem with it, remember she told kato that her ultimute goal was to get back with oj and remarry him. Her IRS sceme proved that.She was trying to get back to rockingham.

She wanted to use the Rockinham address to avoid the capitol gains tax but she was going to continue to live at Bundy. Simpson was angry because she decided not to move back in with him and wouldn't allow her to use the address. She had already found a place in Malibu because she wasn't going tl be able to stay at Bundy and avoide the taxes.

[tv]

tv

If nicole was long ago finished with oj. what was she doing in that club drinking and partying with him five weeks before she was killed. she looked to be having a great time.
i have always said they both looked like they were "juiced." hahaha
ps this video has been posted before.

She didn't look like she was having a great time to me. I'm sure OJ was "juiced". You can tell that by the way he's behaving and his crudeness.

[tv]

why was nicole with oj five days before she was killed drinking and having a great time. this kinda dissproves all the nonsense that she was finished with him. They both looked like they had too much to drink. i think she had a drink in her hand and she was laughing/giggling.

Five weeks before she was killed.

[martin II]

She wanted to use the Rockinham address to avoid the capitol gains tax but she was going to continue to live at Bundy. Simpson was angry because she decided not to move back in with him and wouldn't allow her to use the address. She had already found a place in Malibu because she wasn't going tl be able to stay at Bundy and avoide the taxes.

Bundy condo was in her name how could she continue to live there and live at ojs also on her tax retrun.

[tv]

Bundy condo was in her name how could she continue to live there and live at ojs also on her tax retrun.

People do it all the time to avoid taxes. We know that OJ Simpson isn't above committing illegal acts such as stealing cable service and robbing people at gunpoint so the obvious reason he wouldn't allow her to use his address on paper is to get back at her for not moving back in with him.

[martin II]

Five weeks before she was killed.

sorry

many have posted that nicole was finished with oj long before she was killed and was busy living her own life. why wah she partying with him five weeks before she was killed. got a response to that?

[tv]

sorry

many have posted that nicole was finished with oj long before she was killed and was busy living her own life. why wah she partying with him five weeks before she was killed. got a response to that?

I would have a response to it but I don't care for your tone. The answer is out there if you care to take the time to look for it.

[martin II]

People do it all the time to avoid taxes. We know that OJ Simpson isn't above committing illegal acts such as stealing cable service and robbing people at gunpoint so the obvious reason he wouldn't allow her to use his address on paper is to get back at her for not moving back in with him.

i will check the capital gains law

[martin II]

I would have a response to it but I don't care for your tone. The answer is out there if you care to take the time to look for it.

i think nicole wanted to sell bundy and pocket the profit without telling the irs. Thats why i believe she wanted to use ojs address and eventually move back to rockingham.The IRS request was just her first move and oj recognized it as such.

[martin II]

I would have a response to it but I don't care for your tone. The answer is out there if you care to take the time to look for it.

Nothing wrong with my tone.
i do understand how the question could be troubling to some. my answer is she was trying to get oj back.
which is why oj gave her a bone with she is my woman comment.

[William Anthony]

i think nicole wanted to sell bundy and pocket the profit without telling the irs. Thats why i believe she wanted to use ojs address and eventually move back to rockingham.The IRS request was just her first move and oj recognized it as such.

It seems Simpson is criticized when it is alleged he broke the law and when it is alleged he did not.

[tv]

Nothing wrong with my tone.
i do understand how the question could be troubling to some. my answer is she was trying to get oj back.
which is why oj gave her a bone with she is my woman comment.

Gave her a bone? I sincerely hope you're not bashing Nicole by comparing her to a dog. If she wanted him back all she had to do was say so. She didn't want him. That's why he went to various people whining that she didn't want him anymore.

[weezer]

Gave her a bone? I sincerely hope you're not bashing Nicole by comparing her to a dog. If she wanted him back all she had to do was say so. She didn't want him. That's why he went to various people whining that she didn't want him anymore.

:beer::beer:

[weezer]

People do it all the time to avoid taxes. We know that OJ Simpson isn't above committing illegal acts such as stealing cable service and robbing people at gunpoint so the obvious reason he wouldn't allow her to use his address on paper is to get back at her for not moving back in with him.

all the experts say that abuse is all about the control. what a surprise it must have been to orenthal when Nicole reacted exactly opposite to his IRS threat than he expected and the final diss at the recital where she showed him he was no longer in charge of her or her life pushed him over the top.

[tv]

all the experts say that abuse is all about the control. what a surprise it must have been to orenthal when Nicole reacted exactly opposite to his IRS threat than he expected and the final diss at the recital where she showed him he was no longer in charge of her or her life pushed him over the top.

I have no doubt of that. He probably thought when he backed her into a corner with the IRS letter she would come running back to him. Instead, she found a place to move with the children and planned to get on with her life. He knew the night of the recital that they were finished and that was it for him.

[martin II]

Gave her a bone? I sincerely hope you're not bashing Nicole by comparing her to a dog. If she wanted him back all she had to do was say so. She didn't want him. That's why he went to various people whining that she didn't want him anymore.

You always try to turn my post into something they don't say/mean.Tossing a bone is a common way of saying one has fiven another something of little value.You want to claim it means something totally mean spirited.

I only asked why was Nicole partying with oj if she had left him long before.you don't answer and then make to charge about my comment that is TOTALLY UNTRUE.

[tv]

You always try to turn my post into something they don't say/mean.Tossing a bone is a common way of saying one has fiven another something of little value.You want to claim it means something totally mean spirited.

I only asked why was Nicole partying with oj if she had left him long before.you don't answer and then make to charge about my comment that is TOTALLY UNTRUE.

You're right when you say it had little value. I can't imagine anything of less value to Nicole at that time of her life than being OJ Simpson's woman.

[martin II]

It seems Simpson is criticized when it is alleged he broke the law and when it is alleged he did not.

I think oj remember what Nicole had told kato that her ultimate goal was to remarry oj and get back to rockingham. Oj saw her IRS request as her first move in that direction and he responded in a way to informall that door was shut tight.

[tv]

I think oj remember what Nicole had told kato that her ultimate goal was to remarry oj and get back to rockingham. Oj saw her IRS request as her first move in that direction and he responded in a way to informall that door was shut tight.

If that's true, considering that Nicole hadn't spoken to Kato since he moved to Rockingham, I'd consider that old news. When Simpson found out Nicole wasn't getting back with him he punished her by sending her the IRS letter.

[martin II]

You're right when you say it had little value. I can't imagine anything of less value to Nicole at that time of her life than being OJ Simpson's woman.

SHE had a drink in her hand and was smiling. she certainly did not look as she was distressed.
Remember so far there has been no response as to WHY WAS SHE PARTYING
WITH OJ IN THAT CLUB five weeks before she was killed if she had long ago left oj alone. i got the feeling she was standing by her man in the video.imo

[tv]

SHE had a drink in her hand and was smiling. she certainly did not look as she was distressed.
Remember so far there has been no response as to WHY WAS SHE PARTYING
WITH OJ IN THAT CLUB five weeks before she was killed if she had long ago left oj alone. i got the feeling she was standing by her man in the video.imo

Standing by her man? LOL, you're so funny sometimes, martin. :D

[martin II]

Standing by her man? LOL, you're so funny sometimes, martin. :D

If a woman dosent stand by her man she most likely stands along.I think she was pleased that he gave her that title in the club to let other women know he was not available.she was kinda standing guard. right?

[weezer]

Standing by her man? LOL, you're so funny sometimes, martin. :D

he probably threatened her!

[Its just me]

If that's true, considering that Nicole hadn't spoken to Kato since he moved to Rockingham, I'd consider that old news. When Simpson found out Nicole wasn't getting back with him he punished her by sending her the IRS letter.


According to Nicole in her letter to OJ.....She didn't love OJ. I don't know but OJ's IRS threat to Nicole may have bit him....

The State of California claims Simpson owes $1.44 million in past due taxes.[44] A tax lien was filed in his case on September 1, 1999.[45]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O._J._Simpson

snip
And since Justin birth & the mad New Years Eve beat up.

I just don't see how our stories compare -- I was so bad because I wore sweats & left shoes around & didn't keep a perfect house or comb my hair the way you liked it -- or had dinner ready at the precise moment you walked through the door or that I just plain got on your nerves sometimes.

I just don't see how that compares to infidelity, wife beating verbal abuse --

I just don't think everybody goes through this --

And if I wanted to hurt you or had it in me to be anything like the person you are -- I would have done so after the (illegible) incident. But I didn't even do it then. I called the cops to save my life whether you believe it or not. But I didn't pursue anything after that -- I didn't prosecute, I didn't call the press & I didn't make a big charade out of it. I waited for it to die down and asked for it to. But I've never loved you since or been the same.

http://walraven.org/simpson/nb-to-oj.html

ETA: Nicole also said in the letter to OJ: I wish someone could explain all this to me. I see our marriage as a huge mistake & you don't.

[Its just me]

I don't know if or how this was settled but checks were written from the fraudulent corporation to the IRS. But Hay, OJ is/was not alone....some of the geezers up in Washington...(one writing the tax law) are guilty of not paying their taxes. :flamemad:


O.J. Simpson owes IRS up to $700,000 in back taxes
June 27, 1997
Web posted at: 9:51 p.m. EDT (0151 GMT)

LOS ANGELES (CNN) -- O.J. Simpson owes the Internal Revenue Service between $600,000 and $700,000 in back taxes and faces the likelihood of having to rent rather than buy his next home.

http://www.cnn.com/US/9706/27/simpson/index.html

[Its just me]

he probably threatened her!

I'm not sure Nicole was at the party with OJ. He tells about the "girl" who came with him asking him what kind of place it was. Blah Blah When he speaks of Nicole he addresses her as the lady he told about. I'm sure the video was not the whole conversation with OJ. :shrug:

[The Boys]

sorry

many have posted that nicole was finished with oj long before she was killed and was busy living her own life. why wah she partying with him five weeks before she was killed. got a response to that?

Yeah I got a response to that. She never stopped loving him ... super common for women that go through this and especially with a dude like Simpson.

He hadn't sent her the IRS letter yet --- that's when she got totally pissed and cut him off completely.

[weezer]

SNIPPED*** ". . .I waited for it to die down and asked for it to. But I've never loved you since or been the same. . ."


I think this is one of the saddest things I've ever read.

[weezer]

I don't know if or how this was settled but checks were written from the fraudulent corporation to the IRS. But Hay, OJ is/was not alone....some of the geezers up in Washington...(one writing the tax law) are guilty of not paying their taxes. :flamemad:


O.J. Simpson owes IRS up to $700,000 in back taxes
June 27, 1997
Web posted at: 9:51 p.m. EDT (0151 GMT)

LOS ANGELES (CNN) -- O.J. Simpson owes the Internal Revenue Service between $600,000 and $700,000 in back taxes and faces the likelihood of having to rent rather than buy his next home.

http://www.cnn.com/US/9706/27/simpson/index.html

AH YES -- the self-righteous orenthal that was going to turn Nicole in for using his address. . . .what a slime he was/is.

[martin II]

OJ paid off his tax debt with the million or more he got from the book.
I read last week that nicolas cage owed more than $6,000,000 in back federal taxes and that 45% of the people don't pay taxes.imo

[martin II]

Yeah I got a response to that. She never stopped loving him ... super common for women that go through this and especially with a dude like Simpson.



He hadn't sent her the IRS letter yet --- that's when she got totally pissed and cut him off completely.

Its my understanding that the irs letter came close to when she was killed.

Well some here claim that nicole stopped loving oj long before she was killed.you say she never stopped loving him.

i am inclined to believe most don't know how nicole felt towards oj but in that video that was posted she certainly looked like she was having fun.:cool:

[martin II]

when oj spoke about the lady he was talking to. nicole walked into view so
yes he was talking to and about nicole.

[Its just me]

I think this is one of the saddest things I've ever read.

It's sad to me also. (very sad) Below is the first and last paragraphs of the 8 page hand written letter. IMHOO Nicole had something important to say to OJ...so she wrote the letter because she felt she could say it best in letter form. It doesn't take a Dear Ann to see what Nicole was saying to OJ and it's not my opinion but Nicole's own hand written words.

1st and last paragraph of Nicole's letter:
I think I have to put this all in a letter. Alot of years ago I used to do much better in a letter, I'm gonna try it again now.

I just believe that a relationship is based on trust -- and the last time I trusted you was at our wedding ceremony. it's just so hard for me to trust you again. Even though you say you're a different guy. That O.J. Simpson guy brought me alot of pain heatache -- I tried so hard with him -- I wanted so to be a good wife. But he never gave me a chance.

[martin II]

Although they both saw other people during various times, i believe oj and nicole never actually stopped loving each other.They may have become angry with other for vartious reasons at various times but they actually stilled each other.

Nicole wrote two letters to oj. One in which she kinda blamed him and told him off. The other is when she took responsibility for their problems and asked him to give her another opportunity and allow her to move back to rockingham.imo

[martin II]

correction

still loved each other

[William Anthony]

How does one spouse give the other or deny the other a chance to be a good spouse?

[martin II]

If one person never trusted the other at any time after the wedding day what was it that they received for staying in the marrage for 17 years.There must have been something of value they received to stay married.

[Its just me]

AH YES -- the self-righteous orenthal that was going to turn Nicole in for using his address. . . .what a slime he was/is.

I agree anybody who doesn’t pay their own taxes and even thinks about reporting anyone is pretty low. It would take a vision from God to convince me that OJ was not aware and as involved as Nicole in the way the original tax returns were filed to avoid paying taxes....and this was NOT something OJ just found out about.

OJ was questioned about the IRS letter in his deposition. IMHOO it appears the letter was not just written and sent but changes were made before sending it. The letter was dated June 6 IIRC and Skip Taff's use of the word revengeful speaks for itself and reflects OJ's demeanor toward Nicole just days before I think he sliced her throat.


Q: You see where it says, "Made changes you wanted but did not get revengeful. Okay to" something "mail." Do you see that?

MR. BAKER: Don't answer anymore questions relative to this document.
BY MR. PETROCELLI:
Q: Signed "Skip." You are not going to answer any questions about this?

[tv]

If a woman dosent stand by her man she most likely stands along.I think she was pleased that he gave her that title in the club to let other women know he was not available.she was kinda standing guard. right?

She didn't look at all pleased to me.

[tv]

According to Nicole in her letter to OJ.....She didn't love OJ. I don't know but OJ's IRS threat to Nicole may have bit him....

The State of California claims Simpson owes $1.44 million in past due taxes.[44] A tax lien was filed in his case on September 1, 1999.[45]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O._J._Simpson

snip
And since Justin birth & the mad New Years Eve beat up.

I just don't see how our stories compare -- I was so bad because I wore sweats & left shoes around & didn't keep a perfect house or comb my hair the way you liked it -- or had dinner ready at the precise moment you walked through the door or that I just plain got on your nerves sometimes.

I just don't see how that compares to infidelity, wife beating verbal abuse --

I just don't think everybody goes through this --

And if I wanted to hurt you or had it in me to be anything like the person you are -- I would have done so after the (illegible) incident. But I didn't even do it then. I called the cops to save my life whether you believe it or not. But I didn't pursue anything after that -- I didn't prosecute, I didn't call the press & I didn't make a big charade out of it. I waited for it to die down and asked for it to. But I've never loved you since or been the same.

http://walraven.org/simpson/nb-to-oj.html

ETA: Nicole also said in the letter to OJ: I wish someone could explain all this to me. I see our marriage as a huge mistake & you don't.

That line is very sad. How anyone can say she still felt the same way about him is something I don't understand. You can forgive and forget only so many times until whatever love was there is gone for good. That's what happened to Nicole imo -- she got tired of trying to make it work and always getting the same results. She grew up and decided to make it on her own. That's always the most dangerous time for a woman in an abusive relationship.

[tv]

I'm not sure Nicole was at the party with OJ. He tells about the "girl" who came with him asking him what kind of place it was. Blah Blah When he speaks of Nicole he addresses her as the lady he told about. I'm sure the video was not the whole conversation with OJ. :shrug:

OJ Simpson refers to all women as 'girls' including Nicole during and after their marriage. That goes to show where women rank with him.

[tv]

Yeah I got a response to that. She never stopped loving him ... super common for women that go through this and especially with a dude like Simpson.

He hadn't sent her the IRS letter yet --- that's when she got totally pissed and cut him off completely.

She may have cared for him as a longtime companion and the father of her children but I don't think she was 'in love' with him. She was done with him, he knew it and thought the IRS letter would send her back to Rockingham. When it didn't and he knew it was over for good he killed her.

[tv]

AH YES -- the self-righteous orenthal that was going to turn Nicole in for using his address. . . .what a slime he was/is.

That's why the argument that he didn't want to violate the law doesn't hold water. He's been violating the law for years. The IRS thread was simply a way for him to control Nicole but it didn't work.

[tv]

OJ paid off his tax debt with the million or more he got from the book.
I read last week that nicolas cage owed more than $6,000,000 in back federal taxes and that 45% of the people don't pay taxes.imo

45% of people don't owe taxes.

[The Boys]

Its my understanding that the irs letter came close to when she was killed.

Well some here claim that nicole stopped loving oj long before she was killed.you say she never stopped loving him.

i am inclined to believe most don't know how nicole felt towards oj but in that video that was posted she certainly looked like she was having fun.:cool:

Of course she still loved him. But you can love someone and hate them for things they've done at the same time. I don't think she ever stopped loving him --- I think she was trying to break free of him and finally move on, but still loved him. I think the IRS letter was it for her --- it effed with the well being of her kids and she wasn't having any of that. He wanted to destroy her because he knew she was moving on.

IMO --- he's sick. I think if you stuck a psychiatrist in a room with him for an hour they'd walk out with a whole text book worth of knowledge.

[tv]

Its my understanding that the irs letter came close to when she was killed.
Well some here claim that nicole stopped loving oj long before she was killed.you say she never stopped loving him.

i am inclined to believe most don't know how nicole felt towards oj but in that video that was posted she certainly looked like she was having fun.:cool:

Yes, it did. Simpson thought if she thought she was going to lose every penny she had to the IRS if she couldn't use the Rockingham address she would back to Rockingham. It didn't work -- she found another place to live.

[tv]

Although they both saw other people during various times, i believe oj and nicole never actually stopped loving each other.They may have become angry with other for vartious reasons at various times but they actually stilled each other.

Nicole wrote two letters to oj. One in which she kinda blamed him and told him off. The other is when she took responsibility for their problems and asked him to give her another opportunity and allow her to move back to rockingham.imo

martin, those letters are old news. It's important how Nicole felt closer to the end of her life.

[tv]

If one person never trusted the other at any time after the wedding day what was it that they received for staying in the marrage for 17 years.There must have been something of value they received to stay married.

Just come out and say why you think Nicole stayed.

[tv]

I agree anybody who doesn’t pay their own taxes and even thinks about reporting anyone is pretty low. It would take a vision from God to convince me that OJ was not aware and as involved as Nicole in the way the original tax returns were filed to avoid paying taxes....and this was NOT something OJ just found out about.

OJ was questioned about the IRS letter in his deposition. IMHOO it appears the letter was not just written and sent but changes were made before sending it. The letter was dated June 6 IIRC and Skip Taff's use of the word revengeful speaks for itself and reflects OJ's demeanor toward Nicole just days before I think he sliced her throat.


Q: You see where it says, "Made changes you wanted but did not get revengeful. Okay to" something "mail." Do you see that?

MR. BAKER: Don't answer anymore questions relative to this document.
BY MR. PETROCELLI:
Q: Signed "Skip." You are not going to answer any questions about this?

I agree, IJM. I think he was enraged with her because she was running her own life for once instead of letting him call the shots. She didn't want to move back in with him and I don't blame her. I think if he hadn't killed her on June 12, 1994 he would have eventually at another time whether she was living with him or not.

[tv]

Of course she still loved him. But you can love someone and hate them for things they've done at the same time. I don't think she ever stopped loving him --- I think she was trying to break free of him and finally move on, but still loved him. I think the IRS letter was it for her --- it effed with the well being of her kids and she wasn't having any of that. He wanted to destroy her because he knew she was moving on.

IMO --- he's sick. I think if you stuck a psychiatrist in a room with him for an hour they'd walk out with a whole text book worth of knowledge.

I do think the IRS letter was the last straw. Simpson obviously didn't care how it was going to affect the kids. It was all about getting the upper hand with Nicole.

[The Boys]

I do think the IRS letter was the last straw. Simpson obviously didn't care how it was going to affect the kids. It was all about getting the upper hand with Nicole.

I agree --- he didn't care who it affected --- he just wanted to destroy her and try to scare her into being dependent on him. He failed --- so his only option, imo, was to get rid of her once and for all.

[weezer]

I agree anybody who doesn’t pay their own taxes and even thinks about reporting anyone is pretty low. It would take a vision from God to convince me that OJ was not aware and as involved as Nicole in the way the original tax returns were filed to avoid paying taxes....and this was NOT something OJ just found out about.

OJ was questioned about the IRS letter in his deposition. IMHOO it appears the letter was not just written and sent but changes were made before sending it. The letter was dated June 6 IIRC and Skip Taff's use of the word revengeful speaks for itself and reflects OJ's demeanor toward Nicole just days before I think he sliced her throat.


Q: You see where it says, "Made changes you wanted but did not get revengeful. Okay to" something "mail." Do you see that?

MR. BAKER: Don't answer anymore questions relative to this document.
BY MR. PETROCELLI:
Q: Signed "Skip." You are not going to answer any questions about this?

of course he knew -- he said as much in his deposition. I think he is, like most arrogant people, so insecure that he thought he had to buy Nicole (worked for awhile) and when that wasn't enough, he tried beating her into submission. When she finally grew up and realized he wasn't going to change and quite possibly understood her life was in danger -- she left. It seems orenthal is the one that couldn't move on -- poor old sociopath.

[weezer]

She didn't look at all pleased to me.

LOL -- that's a guy for you. Not a clue what's going on around him. do you know what the timeline is to the final kiss off from Nicole?

[weezer]

That line is very sad. How anyone can say she still felt the same way about him is something I don't understand. You can forgive and forget only so many times until whatever love was there is gone for good. That's what happened to Nicole imo -- she got tired of trying to make it work and always getting the same results. She grew up and decided to make it on her own. That's always the most dangerous time for a woman in an abusive relationship.

it's more than obvious from her letters, diary, and will that Nicole no longer loved orenthal.

[weezer]

She may have cared for him as a longtime companion and the father of her children but I don't think she was 'in love' with him. She was done with him, he knew it and thought the IRS letter would send her back to Rockingham. When it didn't and he knew it was over for good he killed her.

I've always thought there had to have been some fast and furious stuff going on between them there at the end. I'm trying to find the timeline between their trip together, her not accepting the birthday presents from orenthal, the IRS letter, and her death.

[weezer]

Of course she still loved him. But you can love someone and hate them for things they've done at the same time. I don't think she ever stopped loving him --- I think she was trying to break free of him and finally move on, but still loved him. I think the IRS letter was it for her --- it effed with the well being of her kids and she wasn't having any of that. He wanted to destroy her because he knew she was moving on.

IMO --- he's sick. I think if you stuck a psychiatrist in a room with him for an hour they'd walk out with a whole text book worth of knowledge.

I don't think she loved him at the end -- I think she was deathly afraid of him. and, it seems, with very good reason.

[tv]

LOL -- that's a guy for you. Not a clue what's going on around him. do you know what the timeline is to the final kiss off from Nicole?

I don't know but I think it could be pieced together with a little effort. There are probably many conversations and phone calls between them we'll never now about. One thing for sure, things changed when they returned from Cabo. She was distancing herself from him and then when she got the IRS letter she made the final break. My feeling is that she wanted a complete split and the IRS letter gave her the push she needed.

[tv]

I don't think she loved him at the end -- I think she was deathly afraid of him. and, it seems, with very good reason.

I think she knew him well enough to know that he wasn't going to take her rejection well and that he might vent his rage at her in repayment. Every indication is that she was afraid of him.

[Its just me]

She didn't look at all pleased to me.

No she did not look pleased when he took her drink and claimed to America that she was his woman.

Maybe that is why she returned his braclet....in mid May to let him know she was NOT his woman and could not be bought.

[martin II]

martin, those letters are old news. It's important how Nicole felt closer to the end of her life.

People have been pointing to nicoles letter where she attacked oj and ignored her letter where she was begging him to allow her to come back to rockingham.
Why is that?

[martin II]

I don't know but I think it could be pieced together with a little effort. There are probably many conversations and phone calls between them we'll never now about. One thing for sure, things changed when they returned from Cabo. She was distancing herself from him and then when she got the IRS letter she made the final break. My feeling is that she wanted a complete split and the IRS letter gave her the push she needed.

tv

I think the whole idea of Nicole using ojs address was not a solution for what she wanted to do with the condo.It would have never worked to her advantage.

[weezer]

". . .Nicole felt O.J. had hit below the belt with the IRS letter and that she finally rejected him, just as he was deciding to recommit himself to her. She began to treat him like a stranger. That, Petrocelli said, is when three weeks of retaliation began. In that period, the lawyer argued, Simpson grew angrier and more obsessed with his ex-wife, developing a rage that resulted in death for her and Ron Goldman. . ."

[Its just me]

". . .Nicole felt O.J. had hit below the belt with the IRS letter and that she finally rejected him, just as he was deciding to recommit himself to her. She began to treat him like a stranger. That, Petrocelli said, is when three weeks of retaliation began. In that period, the lawyer argued, Simpson grew angrier and more obsessed with his ex-wife, developing a rage that resulted in death for her and Ron Goldman. . ."

Nicole gave the braclet back May 22/23 and the draft of the IRS letter was May 26th...it was altered retyped on June 6th and sent to Nicole on June 8th. Another letter was written to Nicole dated June 8th with orders from OJ concerning Nicole and Gigi. That letter was never sent and IMHOO it was only because OJ killed Nicole first. ETA: OJ's rejection at the recital was the final straw.

Q: I am going to mark as Exhibit 51 a two-page document dated 5-26-94 from Taft to Simpson attaching a draft of a letter to Nicole; and as Exhibit 52, a signed letter from Mr. Simpson to Nicole dated June 6, 1994; and as Exhibit 53, an unsigned letter from Mr. Simpson to Nicole dated June 8, 1994.


Q: And the one that Taft sent you dated May 31 is one paragraph, whereas the final version is three paragraphs. Right?

[weezer]

Nicole gave the braclet back May 22/23 and the draft of the IRS letter was May 26th...it was altered retyped on June 6th and sent to Nicole on June 8th. Another letter was written to Nicole dated June 8th with orders from OJ concerning Nicole and Gigi. That letter was never sent and IMHOO it was only because OJ killed Nicole first. ETA: OJ's rejection at the recital was the final straw.

Q: I am going to mark as Exhibit 51 a two-page document dated 5-26-94 from Taft to Simpson attaching a draft of a letter to Nicole; and as Exhibit 52, a signed letter from Mr. Simpson to Nicole dated June 6, 1994; and as Exhibit 53, an unsigned letter from Mr. Simpson to Nicole dated June 8, 1994.


Q: And the one that Taft sent you dated May 31 is one paragraph, whereas the final version is three paragraphs. Right?

okay -- so her birthday was 5/19 -- he gave her the jewelry that she didn't want.

[weezer]

May 19th - Nicole's birthday

May 22nd - Nicole gave the braclet back but kept the lighter

May 26th - Draft of the IRS letter by orenthal

June 6th - IRS draft letter altered retyped

June 8th - altered/retyped letter sent to Nicole

June 8th - Never sent letter with orders from OJ concerning Nicole and Gigi.

okay -- now the trip to Cabo and Nicole being sick dates

[Its just me]

May 19th - Nicole's birthday

May 22nd - Nicole gave the braclet back but kept the lighter

May 26th - Draft of the IRS letter by orenthal

June 6th - IRS draft letter altered retyped

June 8th - altered/retyped letter sent to Nicole

June 8th - Never sent letter with orders from OJ concerning Nicole and Gigi.

okay -- now the trip to Cabo and Nicole being sick dates

Nicole was sick around her birthday. IIRC I'm pretty sure the approx. dates of her being sick and the trip to Cabo are in the depositions and I will look for them later today. There is a lot in the depostitons but its like trying to put a 1000 piece puzzle together digging it out. One subject matter may be in several different places.

Thanks for getting the dates in order. Good idea.

[weezer]

Nicole was sick around her birthday. IIRC I'm pretty sure the approx. dates of her being sick and the trip to Cabo are in the depositions and I will look for them later today. There is a lot in the depostitons but its like trying to put a 1000 piece puzzle together digging it out. One subject matter may be in several different places.

Thanks for getting the dates in order. Good idea.

I remember orenthal's testimony about how they were having such fun and then Nicole starting shaking and he thought she was having some kind of breakdown or something -- that was when she told him, "I can't do this." he said he thought she meant go out -- I think she meant go on with him.

[martin II]

OJ was paying nicole $10,000 per month CHILD SUPPORT, their health insurance and paid the insurance of her cars. That proves that he was taking care of his kids. There was no reason for the kids to be homeless.

Nicole blew the $400,000 cash he gave her at divoice based on her own decisions with her own money. She purchased the bundy condo knowing she could have capital gains problems if she sold it. Against good advice she decided to put the condo up any way.ignore the capital gains and pocket the profit by telling the irs she lived at rockingham. living at rockingham would not solve her capital gains responsibility on her tax return.

If the sale was reported to the irs and she had not reported the capital gains,she could be open for a audit.

Obviously ojs lawyer knew this so they denied her request.
imo

[The Boys]

OJ was paying nicole $10,000 per month CHILD SUPPORT, their health insurance and paid the insurance of her cars. That proves that he was taking care of his kids. There was no reason for the kids to be homeless.

Nicole blew the $400,000 cash he gave her at divoice based on her own decisions with her own money. She purchased the bundy condo knowing she could have capital gains problems if she sold it. Against good advice she decided to put the condo up any way.ignore the capital gains and pocket the profit by telling the irs she lived at rockingham. living at rockingham would not solve her capital gains responsibility on her tax return.

If the sale was reported to the irs and she had not reported the capital gains,she could be open for a audit.

Obviously ojs lawyer knew this so they denied her request.
imo

You're conveniently forgetting that Simpson has admitted that he knew what Nicole was doing with the IRS thing and was okay with it cause he let her do it.

Also, Simpson is his lawyer's client so his lawyer didn't deny anything without Simpson's approval. Kinda funny how Simpson was a-okay with the idea when he thought he could woo Nicole back and be dependent on him. Soon as she started to make it clear that she was done then it was all over.

Another thing - it takes more than COURT ORDERED child support, COURT ORDERED payment of health insurance and COURT ORDERED payment of car insurance to prove that you're taking care of your kids. What else was he gonna do --- not pay and go to jail? Or not pay and risk looking bad to America? NOT.

And yes living at Rockingham would have taken care of the capital gains problem cause she would have been leasing out the condo.

[martin II]

You're conveniently forgetting that Simpson has admitted that he knew what Nicole was doing with the IRS thing and was okay with it cause he let her do it.

Also, Simpson is his lawyer's client so his lawyer didn't deny anything without Simpson's approval. Kinda funny how Simpson was a-okay with the idea when he thought he could woo Nicole back and be dependent on him. Soon as she started to make it clear that she was done then it was all over.

Another thing - it takes more than COURT ORDERED child support, COURT ORDERED payment of health insurance and COURT ORDERED payment of car insurance to prove that you're taking care of your kids. What else was he gonna do --- not pay and go to jail? Or not pay and risk looking bad to America? NOT.

And yes living at Rockingham would have taken care of the capital gains problem cause she would have been leasing out the condo.
'



She wanted to sell the condo , pocket the profit and buy another house with it.

$10,000 mo paye for the kids place to stay. Nicole would have to be responsible for her own.

Nicole had been begging oj to let her return to rockingham since she did not get the house in the divoice.

if he wanted her at rockingham all he had to do was say come on and she would have been there in 20 minutes with everything she owned. But he consistasbtly told her NO.

He decided he did not want her dragging him into her IRS sceme and that was his right. period.

[weezer]

ORENTHAL'S SUICIDE NOTE:

"To Whom It May Concern:

First, everyone understand. I have nothing to do with Nicole's murder. I loved her; always have and always will. If we had a problem, it's because I loved her so much. . ."

NICOLE'S LETTER TO ORENTHAL:

"'You beat the holy hell out of me'
The letter refers at one point to an incident in September, 1986, in which Ms. Simpson went to a hospital with an abrasion on the back of her head.

"There was also that time you beat the holy hell out of me," Ms. Simpson wrote. "You told the X-ray lab I fell off a bike."

Simpson testified that is what his wife told him had happened.

She also referred to "the New Year's Eve beat-up," a reference to a 1989 fight that brought police to Simpson's estate and led to him pleading no-contest to spousal battery.

"I called the cops to save my life, whether you believe it or not," she wrote.

The letter concluded, "I've never loved you since or been the same."

[martin II]

ORENTHAL'S SUICIDE NOTE:

"To Whom It May Concern:

First, everyone understand. I have nothing to do with Nicole's murder. I loved her; always have and always will. If we had a problem, it's because I loved her so much. . ."

NICOLE'S LETTER TO ORENTHAL:

"'You beat the holy hell out of me'
The letter refers at one point to an incident in September, 1986, in which Ms. Simpson went to a hospital with an abrasion on the back of her head.

"There was also that time you beat the holy hell out of me," Ms. Simpson wrote. "You told the X-ray lab I fell off a bike."

Simpson testified that is what his wife told him had happened.

She also referred to "the New Year's Eve beat-up," a reference to a 1989 fight that brought police to Simpson's estate and led to him pleading no-contest to spousal battery.

"I called the cops to save my life, whether you believe it or not," she wrote.

The letter concluded, "I've never loved you since or been the same."

As another well known poster stated both letters were written long ago. it is old hat already discussed to death by posters posting here more than three weeks here.

[William Anthony]

Simpson is criticized for following a court order and for not following a court order.

[The Boys]

Simpson is criticized for following a court order and for not following a court order.

Yep.

[The Boys]

As another well known poster stated both letters were written long ago. it is old hat already discussed to death by posters posting here more than three weeks here.

Maybe some of us haven't discussed it before or maybe it's being brought up again because the topic is relevant.

[William Anthony]

Maybe some of us haven't discussed it before or maybe it's being brought up again because the topic is relevant.

It was not relevant in the criminal trial, according to the judge. I am not sure about the socio political production.

[Its just me]

You're conveniently forgetting that Simpson has admitted that he knew what Nicole was doing with the IRS thing and was okay with it cause he let her do it.

Also, Simpson is his lawyer's client so his lawyer didn't deny anything without Simpson's approval. Kinda funny how Simpson was a-okay with the idea when he thought he could woo Nicole back and be dependent on him. Soon as she started to make it clear that she was done then it was all over.

Another thing - it takes more than COURT ORDERED child support, COURT ORDERED payment of health insurance and COURT ORDERED payment of car insurance to prove that you're taking care of your kids. What else was he gonna do --- not pay and go to jail? Or not pay and risk looking bad to America? NOT.

And yes living at Rockingham would have taken care of the capital gains problem cause she would have been leasing out the condo.

You are correct about living at Rockingham taking care of the capital gains tax. By there being capital gains tax the sale the condo was not or was not going to be claimed as a private home. One would have to see the actual income tax return to know what was actually done.

OJ knew exactly what was going on. Some how when they agreed to get back together…it was decided it had to work for a year before Nicole was to move back to Rockingham. (Or something similar) An extensive audit most likely would have uncovered it was not rental property if in fact Nicole and the kids were living in the property at the time of any possible audit.

All things point to OJ being "mad" and not waiting for any audit or even willing to call Nicole to work out any tax problems. A sure sign of a big spoiled brat who got killing pissed because Nicole returned his bracelet and was finished with him.

In case it’s worth anything to anyone. Any profit from the sale could have been used to help buy another (rental) property and no capital gains tax still would not have been owed....that is if the tax law was the same back then as it's been the last several years. “Like kind exchange” is the term used by the IRS. IIRC.

I have NO IDEA what the divorce laws are in Calif. but in Georgia the wife is entitled to 1/2 of what the husband accumulated since the marriage. Any inheritance is not included in most if not all cases. By what little is known it appears OJ got treated pretty good financially in the divorce. :shrug:

As always MHOO

ETA: I believe I remember reading OJ and Nicole had a prenuptial agreement. Explains why OJ faired so good. sorry

[Its just me]

ORENTHAL'S SUICIDE NOTE:

"To Whom It May Concern:

First, everyone understand. I have nothing to do with Nicole's murder. I loved her; always have and always will. If we had a problem, it's because I loved her so much. . ."

NICOLE'S LETTER TO ORENTHAL:

"'You beat the holy hell out of me'
The letter refers at one point to an incident in September, 1986, in which Ms. Simpson went to a hospital with an abrasion on the back of her head.

"There was also that time you beat the holy hell out of me," Ms. Simpson wrote. "You told the X-ray lab I fell off a bike."

Simpson testified that is what his wife told him had happened.

She also referred to "the New Year's Eve beat-up," a reference to a 1989 fight that brought police to Simpson's estate and led to him pleading no-contest to spousal battery.

"I called the cops to save my life, whether you believe it or not," she wrote.

The letter concluded, "I've never loved you since or been the same."

"Because I loved her so much" is pretty plain English...isn't it? Plus it's part of OJ's going away letter....the most recent of all the letters.

Simpson testified that is what his wife told him had happened. :rolleyes: IIRC Simpson even claims the bruises shown in pictures were not bruises but makeup on Nicole. According to OJ he never put a hand on Nicole.....only rassled is the word I belived OJ used.

[weezer]

You are correct about living at Rockingham taking care of the capital gains tax. By there being capital gains tax the sale the condo was not or was not going to be claimed as a private home. One would have to see the actual income tax return to know what was actually done.

OJ knew exactly what was going on. Some how when they agreed to get back together…it was decided it had to work for a year before Nicole was to move back to Rockingham. (Or something similar) An extensive audit most likely would have uncovered it was not rental property if in fact Nicole and the kids were living in the property at the time of any possible audit.

All things point to OJ being "mad" and not waiting for any audit or even willing to call Nicole to work out any tax problems. A sure sign of a big spoiled brat who got killing pissed because Nicole returned his bracelet and was finished with him.

In case it’s worth anything to anyone. Any profit from the sale could have been used to help buy another (rental) property and no capital gains tax still would not have been owed....that is if the tax law was the same back then as it's been the last several years. “Like kind exchange” is the term used by the IRS. IIRC.

I have NO IDEA what the divorce laws are in Calif. but in Georgia the wife is entitled to 1/2 of what the husband accumulated since the marriage. Any inheritance is not included in most if not all cases. By what little is known it appears OJ got treated pretty good financially in the divorce. :shrug:

As always MHOO

ETA: I believe I remember reading OJ and Nicole had a prenuptial agreement. Explains why OJ faired so good. sorry

In Nicole's papers was an agreement that if he ever hit her again, the pre-nup was no good. Guess when she accepted those terms, she signed her own death warrant. :(

[Its just me]

In Nicole's papers was an agreement that if he ever hit her again, the pre-nup was no good. Guess when she accepted those terms, she signed her own death warrant. :(

Strange: I came to the board to post what is in OJ's depositions about this agreement and find your post. Again IMHOO everything points to OJ being very mad with Nicole and her with him....there was NO way she would have taken another beating from him and not have held him to the agreement with the pre-nup. IMHOO there is enough solid history evidence to show OJ beat Nicole when he was mad and the agreement stopped his free ride for the beatings. It appears another one would have hurt his pocket book and it's clear money was/is very important to OJ. Interesting to say the least.

Q: There did come a time in your marriage to Nicole that you and she entered into an agreement that if you ever willfully inflicted injury on her again, that the prenuptial agreement would be voided. Correct?

A: That's correct.

Q: And so in making that agreement, you agreed that you had inflicted physical injury on her in the past. Correct?

A: Yes. And it wasn't an agreement. It was

something I gave her. She didn't-- she just accepted it. So it was just something I offered.

Q: And the reason you offered it is because you felt responsible for beating her. Correct?

A: No. I felt responsible for her injuries and--on--in 1989.

Q: Well, you felt responsible for inflicting those injuries. Correct?

A: If felt responsible for those injuries, correct.

Q: Not for inflicting them. Right?

A: Not necessarily that, no.

Q: Did you ever abuse her after that agreement?

A: No.

Q: Did she sign that agreement?

A: I believe so.

[tv]

Maybe some of us haven't discussed it before or maybe it's being brought up again because the topic is relevant.

I was the one that said Nicole's letters to Simpson saying she loved him etc. were old news because a well known poster keeps putting them in the time frame immediately preceding the murderers and that's misleading. Imo, it doesn't matter if we've discussed it to death for more than three weeks or longer...as long as it's presented truthfully.

[martin II]

in addition oj had given nicole a $500,000 SF condo so she would have rental income for herself. she sold it.

i am not sure but believe the title company would report the sale after closing to tax people.

I think oj had advised her to lease bundy and keep her cash in her pocket but she decided to purchase.

At that time her capital gaings would only be 25% of her profit. I don't consider that to be such a huge amount for her since she had the SF condo sale and the divoice settlement money. Plus the $10,000 monthly cash for the kids.

nicole tried to get oj to give her rockingham at the divoice. he refused. She told kato her ultimate goal was to remarry oj and move back to rockingham.
during the try out period she asked oj many times to let her come back to rockingham. every request was met with a no from him.
Her last effort was the irs sceme and she got another no.imo

i don't think she just wanted to use his address,she wanted to live at that address.

[tv]

in addition oj had given nicole a $500,000 SF condo so she would have rental income for herself. she sold it.

i am not sure but believe the title company would report the sale after closing to tax people.

I think oj had advised her to lease bundy and keep her cash in her pocket but she decided to purchase.

At that time her capital gaings would only be 25% of her profit. I don't consider that to be such a huge amount for her since she had the SF condo sale and the divoice settlement money. Plus the $10,000 monthly cash for the kids.

nicole tried to get oj to give her rockingham at the divoice. he refused. She told kato her ultimate goal was to remarry oj and move back to rockingham.
during the try out period she asked oj many times to let her come back to rockingham. every request was met with a no from him.
Her last effort was the irs sceme and she got another no.imo

i don't think she just wanted to use his address,she wanted to live at that address.

She hadn't been friendly with Kato since January 7 when he moved in with Simpson. That was six months before the murders.

[weezer]

She hadn't been friendly with Kato since January 7 when he moved in with Simpson. That was six months before the murders.

I have never seen/read/heard anything about Nicole wanting/fighting for/or expecting to get rockingham in the divorce.

Nicole confiding in kato stopped when he ran to rockingham for the free rent and association with a celebrity. :cuss:

[tv]

I have never seen/read/heard anything about Nicole wanting/fighting for/or expecting to get rockingham in the divorce.

Nicole confiding in kato stopped when he ran to rockingham for the free rent and association with a celebrity. :cuss:

I haven't heard anything like that either and I don't remember any testimony by Kato saying that Nicole wanted to move back to Rockingham. I'm not saying it's not there but I don't recall reading it. If she said that to him it was before January when he betrayed her friendship by moving in with Simpson. I like Kato but in this instance he was looking out for Kato.

[Its just me]

I have never seen/read/heard anything about Nicole wanting/fighting for/or expecting to get rockingham in the divorce.

Nicole confiding in kato stopped when he ran to rockingham for the free rent and association with a celebrity. :cuss:

This is what OJ said about the divorce. Doesn't sound like Nicole was protesting much of anything.

Q: But the divorce proceedings went on. Right?

A: Yes.

Q: From that point on, did the subject of abuse ever come up in your divorce proceedings?

A: Not that I know of

Q: Now, you had--there was a trial that began, did it not?

A: Yes.

Q: And it lasted one or two days?

A: Well, I testified and, once again, she wouldn't testify to that, so she didn't show up one day.

Q: And that was the end of the trial?

A: She came to my house and we settled, and the trial was just about over.

Q: This was about near the end of the trial. Correct?

[weezer]

This is what OJ said about the divorce. Doesn't sound like Nicole was protesting much of anything.

Q: But the divorce proceedings went on. Right?

A: Yes.

Q: From that point on, did the subject of abuse ever come up in your divorce proceedings?

A: Not that I know of

Q: Now, you had--there was a trial that began, did it not?

A: Yes.

Q: And it lasted one or two days?

A: Well, I testified and, once again, she wouldn't testify to that, so she didn't show up one day.

Q: And that was the end of the trial?

A: She came to my house and we settled, and the trial was just about over.

Q: This was about near the end of the trial. Correct?

she could have had rockingham AND anything else she wanted if she told him she'd go to the press and media with her abuse story!

[tv]

she could have had rockingham AND anything else she wanted if she told him she'd go to the press and media with her abuse story!

Unlike her killer, who had the poor taste to write a book exploiting her and her death, Nicole probably didn't want to do anything to hurt the father of her children and I don't think she wanted to do anything to ruin him either. She just wanted her freedom.

[martin II]

she could have had rockingham AND anything else she wanted if she told him she'd go to the press and media with her abuse story!

During the divoice nicole told oj that certain friends had told her to make up false abuse stories against oj and use them in the trial.

She told him she could not do that because it would not be true.She wanted the house but oj told her he had too many memories in the house and she could not have it.
she was satidfied with the settlement that is why she skipped the last day of the trial.

With the money from the FS condo and the $400,000 cash and the $10,000 mo for the kids. She was in good shape. But she blew it somehow.imo

[martin II]

I haven't heard anything like that either and I don't remember any testimony by Kato saying that Nicole wanted to move back to Rockingham. I'm not saying it's not there but I don't recall reading it. If she said that to him it was before January when he betrayed her friendship by moving in with Simpson. I like Kato but in this instance he was looking out for Kato.

You think she wanted to get back with oj, remarry him and not live at rockingham? Kato could not afford to pay nicole $500.00 month rent which is why he babysitted for her so he would pay less rent.
if he did not look out for Kato who would.That was a no brainer.

[tv]

During the divoice nicole told oj that certain friends had told her to make up false abuse stories against oj and use them in the trial.

She told him she could not do that because it would not be true.She wanted the house but oj told her he had too many memories in the house and she could not have it.
she was satidfied with the settlement that is why she skipped the last day of the trial.

With the money from the FS condo and the $400,000 cash and the $10,000 mo for the kids. She was in good shape. But she blew it somehow.imo

I thought you said she wanted to live at Rockingham -- now you're saying she was satisfied with the divorce settlement. Also, you believe that Nicole had enough integrity not to make up stories about Simpson, yet you don't believe her when she says in her own words that he abused her. :confused:

[tv]

You think she wanted to get back with oj, remarry him and not live at rockingham?

I don't think she wanted to get back with him, marry him or live at Rockingham.

[martin II]

I thought you said she wanted to live at Rockingham -- now you're saying she was satisfied with the divorce settlement. Also, you believe that Nicole had enough integrity not to make up stories about Simpson, yet you don't believe her when she says in her own words that he abused her. :confused:

oj told her no way she was getting rockingham. she accepted that and the settlement.

[martin II]

I don't think she wanted to get back with him, marry him or live at Rockingham.

There was a lot of petro examination of kato and you agreed with his testimony then. now you don't believe him when he says nicole told him her ultimate goal was to remarry oj?

[martin II]

I don't think she wanted to get back with him, marry him or live at Rockingham.

She certainly made a lot of effort to do so.

[tv]

There was a lot of petro examination of kato and you agreed with his testimony then. now you don't believe him when he says nicole told him her ultimate goal was to remarry oj?

If you'll at what I posted I said I don't recall it but that I'm not saying he didn't say it. What she told Kato about how she felt six months to a year or so before the murders means what? I guess I'm going to have to go read it so I know exactly what he said.

[martin II]

Unlike her killer, who had the poor taste to write a book exploiting her and her death, Nicole probably didn't want to do anything to hurt the father of her children and I don't think she wanted to do anything to ruin him either. She just wanted her freedom.

if you read his book you would know it was basically about their life togeather.

[martin II]

If you'll at what I posted I said I don't recall it but that I'm not saying he didn't say it. What she told Kato about how she felt six months to a year or so before the murders means what? I guess I'm going to have to go read it so I know exactly what he said.

i posted katos testimony on the subject a few pages back.

Q did nicole ever tell you her ultimate goal was to remarry oj.

a yes

i will look for it.

[tv]

She certainly made a lot of effort to do so.

Not really. When she saw he was never going to change she gave up and began to move on with her life.

[tv]

i posted katos testimony on the subject a few pages back.

Q did nicole ever tell you her ultimate goal was to remarry oj.

a yes

That's no shocker. We know at one time they attempted a reconciliation. It didn't work out -- Nicole dumped him.

[tv]

Nicole told Kato that a year to a year and a half before she was murdered. Her feelings had drastically changed in the weeks before she was murdered --

Q: So -- and she started chatting with you about personal details of her Life. Let's see if we can concentrate between February of 1993 and May of 1993. Okay?

A: Okay.

Q: Now, during that period of time did Nicole suggest to you that she wanted to get back to having a marriage with O.J. Simpson?

A: Yes, it came up.

Q: And she told you that she wanted to remarry O.J. Simpson, didn't she?

A: I believe so.

Q: And she told you she was in love with O.J. Simpson, didn't she?

A: Yes.

[tv]

Since we're discussing feelings, here is what Kato had to say about Simpson's real feelings about Paula Barbieri --

A: It was not sure if Paula is exactly the one, you know. She wanted kids, and O.J. had said that he already had kids and he was--you know, he doesn't want more kids. So is it was kind of like Paula's probably not the one.

Q: Did he say anything about his sexual appetite for Paula?

MR. PHILLIP BAKER: Leading.

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

Q: Did he say anything about that subject?

A: [Deleted]

Q: But not the one to marry?

A: Not the one to marry.

[martin II]

Unlike her killer, who had the poor taste to write a book exploiting her and her death, Nicole probably didn't want to do anything to hurt the father of her children and I don't think she wanted to do anything to ruin him either. She just wanted her freedom.

if oj owed the taxes some think he owed, the million $ he received from the book was a gift from god. He paid his taxes. He would have been a fool not to write the book just because some people he did not even know may not like the idea.These people didm't impact on his life. He had no reason to be concerned about what they thought.:cool:

[martin II]

Since we're discussing feelings, here is what Kato had to say about Simpson's real feelings about Paula Barbieri --

A: It was not sure if Paula is exactly the one, you know. She wanted kids, and O.J. had said that he already had kids and he was--you know, he doesn't want more kids. So is it was kind of like Paula's probably not the one.

Q: Did he say anything about his sexual appetite for Paula?

MR. PHILLIP BAKER: Leading.

BY MR. PETROCELLI:

Q: Did he say anything about that subject?

A: [Deleted]

Q: But not the one to marry?

A: Not the one to marry.

This is correct which says two things about 6/12
paulas call did not cause oj to flip out and go kill nicole it also shows why he called Greta and told her lets get togeather i am finally free.
this also indicates that he was finished with nicole.
Greta was a real knockout.

You posted testimony about sexual appetite. if you are interested in testimony on that subject i can give you some.

[tv]

if oj owed the taxes some think he owed, the million $ he received from the book was a gift from god. He paid his taxes. He would have been a fool not to write the book just because some people he did not even know may not like the idea.These people didm't impact on his life. He had no reason to be concerned about what they thought.:cool:

If you think the public doesn't impact on OJ Simpson's life then you don't understand him at all. He said himself that public image is everything to him. The one million he got for the book was definitely not a gift from God. I think it was just the opposite -- he made a deal with the devil.

[tv]

This is correct which says two things about 6/12
paulas call did not cause oj to flip out and go kill nicole it also shows why he called Greta and told her lets get togeather i am finally free.
this also indicates that he was finished with nicole.
Greta was a real knockout.

You mean Gretchen Stockdale? IIRC, she didn't seem interested.

Paula's call didn't cause him to flip out. It was just another factor that contributed to his buiding rage. Obviously, he was only interested in her for one reason but he couldn't handle the rejection.

[martin II]

If you think the public doesn't impact on OJ Simpson's life then you don't understand him at all. He said himself that public image is everything to him. The one million he got for the book was definitely not a gift from God. I think it was just the opposite -- he made a deal with the devil.

Who did fred make a deal with when he tried to sell the book?

[martin II]

If you think the public doesn't impact on OJ Simpson's life then you don't understand him at all. He said himself that public image is everything to him. The one million he got for the book was definitely not a gift from God. I think it was just the opposite -- he made a deal with the devil.

OJ said he knew what the public thought of him and he didn't care. he had moved on.

he made a deal with HC. i don't think he cared that you saw them as the devil.

fred sold the book and made money on the death of of his son. did he deal with the same devil?