Random Discussions On The Case

[tv]

In order to understand what happened between Nicole and the maid one has to look at the involvement of each at the time of the altercation. Because of the situation between oj and Nicole it seems Nicole had some suspecion about where the earings were. Based on her previous suspecians that Michael had information of ojs affairs and that Michael could have been assisting oj in his actions,she had made previous request that oj fire her.At that point he had resisted her demands.

After oj put Nicole out of the bedroom for some reason she went to Michaels room and slapped her and knocked her down.Michael went to oj telling him what had happened and he came to her room to break up the altercation.
Nicole obviously was not finished and a pushing match i think happened between Nicole and Nicole as he attemoted to keeop them seperate or calm the situation down and Nicole ran out the door.

If Nicole had never gone to Michaels room none of this would have happened.
If Nicole had not pushed the issue of the earings with oj there would not have been a fight.

I don't think it is fair to say Nicole was totally innocent of everything because she was later killed.Her actions were her actions.
This is my understanding of those events. imo

What does an argument with the maid have to do with OJS being charged with the murders of Ron and Nicole other than it was part of an violent episode where he threw Nicole out of her own bedroom? Perhaps if OJS hadn't been sleeping with anything that moved the incident with the earrings wouldn't have happened.

[William Anthony]

In order to award damages for future earnings, Plaintiffs would have to request such and then provide actual documentation to jurors to use in figuring those damages. Financial statements, W2s, etc.

The law clearly states that when someone seeks compensatory damages they must show evidence of their nature as well as data that they can be calculated from.

Kate

I think we are both aware that the law is not etched in stone. There is a catch-all phrase that is sometimes used in complaints aside from the specific request for relief to the effect of, any and all other relief that the honorable court deems just and proper. I have found cases that say that language is not enough to include certain types of damage awards. However, I also found this case and this language.

http://www.altlaw.org/v1/cases/470216

"Fontbonne also attempts to characterize the plaintiff's prayer for relief as an admission binding against her. We find no merit in this contention. Rule 54(c) of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure states that all judgments, except those by default, "shall grant the relief to which the party in whose favor it is rendered is entitled, even if the party has not demanded such relief in his pleadings." (Emphasis added.) In accordance with this rule, it is not uncommon for an award to be greater than that requested in the prayer for relief; the complaint is subsequently amended. See, e. g., Morrow v. Greyhound Lines, Inc., 541 F.2d 713 (8th Cir. 1976). The cases relied upon by Fontbonne are inapplicable because they involve situations where a party has made a factual admission as to its own conduct which it later attempts to deny at trial. See, e. g., Sanitary Milk Producers v. Bergjans Farm Dairy, Inc., 368 F.2d 679 (8th Cir. 1966); Seven-Up Bottling Co. v. The Seven-Up Co., 420 F.Supp. 1246 (E.D.Mo.1976). To the extent we hold that Stineman was not bound by the prayer for relief in her complaint, it was not erroneous for the district court to refuse to reduce the award from $800,000 to $300,000."

Therefore, I think there is some confusion as to what the jury allowed awards for based on the argument of the lawyer and the jury instruction. I would tend to agree with you had not the jury instruction specifically mentioned Mr. RG and plaintiff Goldman.

[tv]

I'm waiting for something besides 'say so' that supports it actually happened.
You might have a long wait. Say so is considered a valid source by some posters. The other one I like is 'it was on the news'.

[martin II]

I haven't had time to research your claims, which I find myself doing quite often, about Marc Klaas and John Walsh. It's fairly obvious to me that OJS said he was having 'weird' thoughts about Nicole because he knew he was going to have a problem on the polygraph. Here he is admitting to having thoughts of harming Nicole and you still don't believe he did it. I have a lot of faith in polygraphs but they're not infallible. I have a question for you -- if you saw OJS committ the murders on video would you believe it?

You may have confidence in that cop RS that reported what he said oj told him. But i don't. A drunk that had secrete ideas about Nicole himself. Please.
see William C/DEAR'S BOOK

[tv]

You may have confidence in that cop RS that reported what he said oj told him. But i don't. A drunk that had secrete ideas about Nicole himself. Please.
see William C/DEAR'S BOOK

I didn't say I had confidence in anything. The bottom line is that the polygraph was stopped because he wasn't doing well. You don't think F Lee Bailey is lying do you?

[martin II]

Since no future earnings were requested and not used in the calculation, the awards for the $19,000,000.00 (i think that was the original amount) was based exactly on what??

[Kate Sachel]

I haven't had time to research your claims, which I find myself doing quite often, about Marc Klaas and John Walsh. It's fairly obvious to me that OJS said he was having 'weird' thoughts about Nicole because he knew he was going to have a problem on the polygraph. Here he is admitting to having thoughts of harming Nicole and you still don't believe he did it. I have a lot of faith in polygraphs but they're not infallible. I have a question for you -- if you saw OJS committ the murders on video would you believe it?

I can spare you the research on the Klaas issue. In fact, one of the first things that Marc Klaas did was to volunteer a polygraph test. Law enforcement did not even have to request it of him.

Kate

[martin II]

I didn't say I had confidence in anything. The bottom line is that the polygraph was stopped because he wasn't doing well. You don't think F Lee Bailey is lying do you?

tv]
You may not have seen my comment on this specific issue.
I don't know what Bailey told Shaperio when talked talked. A post reporting his comments while testifying about his license does not do it for me.

I also don't know what the questions you think oj was asked or the answers you think he must have given. So the polygraph is a zero for me.It is as if even the small part that it is reported oj took really didn't happen because there is no results that was ever reported.It sounds good if one is looking for
stuff against oj but it is just not there on the test.imo

[tv]

FBG,

I have waited for a couple of days for you to give me an apology and I have been waiting for you to apologize to Martin for calling him a pig. I knew you weren't going to apologize and I am sorry to say you prove both Martin's and mine points.

Abuse comes in many forms, as in phyiscal and verbal and you have committed verbal abuse and you make no apologies for it. You have deliberately goaded and baited posters who do not share you views on the case with name calling, condesending posts---bottom line, you are just like OJ Simpson.

You have proved that when a person becomes so outraged, even if it is a forum like this, you have every single right in the world to throw verbal punches.

So next time you want to post about Simpson's behavior on this issue, I will make sure that I remind you that you are no better then he is. People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

No other G has a problem finding the correct words to post their umbridge at a post. This board has shut down a few times and the blame has been laid at the feet of Martin and William, if this board gets closed again, it will because of your posts.

I have ignored your posts because you have a habit of calling people liars when they post information that you apparently have no knowledge of. Two perfect examples, one seveal months ago. I posted that Barry Scheck was a DV expert and this fact is why the DA's maybe why the DA's dropped their motive and perhaps why they didn't call a DV expert. You said that it was not true. Martin posted the information that proved I was right.

I posted last week about unknown DNA being found in the Bronco and it was from a Hispanic person. You said that was not true. Well now you know it is true. Apparently you feel you can call people liars and other names when you don't know the facts and when you are told them, you make no apologizes. I think your initials should change to OJ, in fact, I think that is how I will refer to you as "OJ" - Orenthalia Jane. You have earned this.

Every one makes mistakes Orenthalia, however, the difference between you and the others, they admit them, no matter how much time one may want to dance around it or whatever, but eventually, they own up. IMO.

GreenIce, I think you've let your anger get the best of you. Orenthalia Jane?? You need to take a very deep breath and maybe even a step back. This was a little scary.

[weezer]

In order to understand what happened between Nicole and the maid one has to look at the involvement of each at the time of the altercation. Because of the situation between oj and Nicole it seems Nicole had some suspecion about where the earings were. Based on her previous suspecians that Michael had information of ojs affairs and that Michael could have been assisting oj in his actions,she had made previous request that oj fire her.At that point he had resisted her demands.

After oj put Nicole out of the bedroom for some reason she went to Michaels room and slapped her and knocked her down.Michael went to oj telling him what had happened and he came to her room to break up the altercation.
Nicole obviously was not finished and a pushing match i think happened between Nicole and Nicole as he attemoted to keeop them seperate or calm the situation down and Nicole ran out the door.

If Nicole had never gone to Michaels room none of this would have happened.
If Nicole had not pushed the issue of the earings with oj there would not have been a fight.

I don't think it is fair to say Nicole was totally innocent of everything because she was later killed.Her actions were her actions.
This is my understanding of those events. imo

can you please post a link to what you are using to support your scenario?

[tv]

tv]
You may not have seen my comment on this specific issue.
I don't know what Bailey told Shaperio when talked talked. A post reporting his comments while testifying about his license does not do it for me.

I also don't know what the questions you think oj was asked or the answers you think he must have given. So the polygraph is a zero for me.It is as if even the small part that it is reported oj took really didn't happen because there is no results that was ever reported.It sounds good if one is looking for
stuff against oj but it is just not there on the test.imo

We all know what's been reported aobut the polygraph. It wasn't entered into evidence but then a lot of stuff that has been discussed on this board wasn't in the trial. You seem to think F Lee Bailey is a brilliant lawyer so I was surprised to see that you think he might be lying about the polygraph. As long as the Rockingham glove had the DNA of OJS, NBS and RG I don't need the polygraph to convince me of Simpson's guilt.

[martin II]

What does an argument with the maid have to do with OJS being charged with the murders of Ron and Nicole other than it was part of an violent episode where he threw Nicole out of her own bedroom? Perhaps if OJS hadn't been sleeping with anything that moved the incident with the earrings wouldn't have happened.

A issue about Michael and Nicole and the earings was posted.Thats why.

[tv]

A issue about Michael and Nicole and the earings was posted.Thats why.
So what ever happened to the maid regarding her employment with the Simpsons?

[martin II]

We all know what's been reported aobut the polygraph. It wasn't entered into evidence but then a lot of stuff that has been discussed on this board wasn't in the trial. You seem to think F Lee Bailey is a brilliant lawyer so I was surprised to see that you think he might be lying about the polygraph. As long as the Rockingham glove had the DNA of OJS, NBS and RG I don't need the polygraph to convince me of Simpson's guilt.

i never said i thought Bailey was lying about the polygraph.

[William Anthony]

Kate and GreenIce

I have reviewed portions of the Goldman's complaint, specifically paragraphs 14, 15, and 16 and see that they allege loss of support from Mr. RG. I also see that the complaint calls for both general and specific compensatory damages, although those specific compensatory damages are not specifically enumerated. I think the specific compensatory damages would be the allegation of loss of support among others things mentioned in those paragraphs. Here is a link that talks about future earnings and present value, although I will admit to only skimming it but it seems to be in line with the jury instruction.

http://www.forensicresolutions.com/pdfs/RevisitingtheKaczkowskiRulingonDiscounting.pdf

With all that said I am still confused. It is my understanding that the plaintiffs would have had to provide proof of their allegations and, therefore, I remain confused.:)

[tv]

I can spare you the research on the Klaas issue. In fact, one of the first things that Marc Klaas did was to volunteer a polygraph test. Law enforcement did not even have to request it of him.

Kate
That's what I've always heard him say in the many interviews he's given. Thanks for corroborating this. :)

[Kate Sachel]

Kate and GreenIce

I have reviewed portions of the Goldman's complaint, specifically paragraphs 14, 15, and 16 and see that they allege loss of support from Mr. RG. I also see that the complaint calls for both general and specific compensatory damages, although those specific compensatory damages are not specifically enumerated. I think the specific compensatory damages would be the allegation of loss of support among others things mentioned in those paragraphs. Here is a link that talks about future earnings and present value, although I will admit to only skimming it but it seems to be in line with the jury instruction.

http://www.forensicresolutions.com/pdfs/RevisitingtheKaczkowskiRulingonDiscounting.pdf

With all that said I am still confused. It is my understanding that the plaintiffs would have had to provide proof of their allegations and, therefore, I remain confused.:)

Paragraph 15 is out since it was determined that legally Kimberly Goldman could not be a party to the lawsuit.

Paragraph 16 is regarding compensation for the costs of funeral and burial and that dollar amount was presented and proven at trial.

Now, back to paragraph 14. Pecuniary loss does not pertain only to loss of earnings and, some states, including California, say that the value of the loss of the aide, comfort and society of the deceased person is part of the "pecuniary" loss.

So, if the Plaintiffs did not ask for compensation of lost wages, and made that clear, I cannot see how legally the jury could award such.

Kate

[William Anthony]

Paragraph 15 is out since it was determined that legally Kimberly Goldman could not be a party to the lawsuit.

Paragraph 16 is regarding compensation for the costs of funeral and burial and that dollar amount was presented and proven at trial.

Now, back to paragraph 14. Pecuniary loss does not pertain only to loss of earnings and, some states, including California, say that the value of the loss of the aide, comfort and society of the deceased person is part of the "pecuniary" loss.

So, if the Plaintiffs did not ask for compensation of lost wages, and made that clear, I cannot see how legally the jury could award such.

Kate

14. By reason of the death of decedent, which plaintiffs are informed and believe and based thereon allege was legally and proximately caused by the conduct of defendant Simpson and Does 1 through 10, inclusive, as herein alleged, plaintiff Fredric Goldman has sustained pecuniary loss resulting from the losses of the company, presence, companionship, society, comfort, attention, services, guidance and support of decedent. (this loss of support of the decedent would be in addition to the others listed therein, which would be a form of moral support, which the jury instructions covered).

16. By reason of the death of decedent, which plaintiffs are informed and believe and based thereon allege was legally and proximately caused by the conduct of defendant Simpson and Does 1 through 10, inclusive, as herein alleged, plaintiff Fredric Goldman has suffered economic compensatory damages in the amount to be proven at trial. (economic compensatory damaged could be specifics such as those you mentioned)

I don't know if I supplied this link before. However, it has a interesting example of a restaurant , which was used in Lambert's closing that we have discussed.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Legal+damages

Then we take into consideration this part of the jury's instruction.

"Any award for future economic loss must be only for its present cash value."

I think that applies to Mr. RG's future economic loss. Additionally, there is this link and I still remained confused as I can see where both GreenIce and you could be correct.

http://injury.findlaw.com/personal-injury/personal-injury-a-z/wrongful-death.html

[martin II]

So what ever happened to the maid regarding her employment with the Simpsons?

Later a maid GIGI was his maid so Michael either quit or oj eventually let her go in order to have some peace in his house.I don't know if she made any charges against Nicole but i doubt it.I think she would have told oj I am leaving.i think oj had hired Michael before Nicole came to live at ojs house and she saw herself as working for oj.Nocole may have been trying to assert herself in the house but obviously in a was in a way that was not acceptable to the maid.imo

[martin II]

If Nicole went to Michaels room accused her of assisting oj in his affairs and slapped her and knocked her to the groud SHE LOST IT AND DECKED HER.

[Kate Sachel]

14. By reason of the death of decedent, which plaintiffs are informed and believe and based thereon allege was legally and proximately caused by the conduct of defendant Simpson and Does 1 through 10, inclusive, as herein alleged, plaintiff Fredric Goldman has sustained pecuniary loss resulting from the losses of the company, presence, companionship, society, comfort, attention, services, guidance and support of decedent. (this loss of support of the decedent would be in addition to the others listed therein, which would be a form of moral support, which the jury instructions covered).

16. By reason of the death of decedent, which plaintiffs are informed and believe and based thereon allege was legally and proximately caused by the conduct of defendant Simpson and Does 1 through 10, inclusive, as herein alleged, plaintiff Fredric Goldman has suffered economic compensatory damages in the amount to be proven at trial. (economic compensatory damaged could be specifics such as those you mentioned)

I don't know if I supplied this link before. However, it has a interesting example of a restaurant , which was used in Lambert's closing that we have discussed.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Legal+damages

Then we take into consideration this part of the jury's instruction.

"Any award for future economic loss must be only for its present cash value."

I think that applies to Mr. RG's future economic loss. Additionally, there is this link and I still remained confused as I can see where both GreenIce and you could be correct.

http://injury.findlaw.com/personal-injury/personal-injury-a-z/wrongful-death.html

So in essence what you are saying is that the jury awarded damages for Ron's future earnings even though the Plaintiffs were specific in not asking for such?

Kate

[martin II]

GreenIce, I think you've let your anger get the best of you. Orenthalia Jane?? You need to take a very deep breath and maybe even a step back. This was a little scary.

Any one giving GIS post a fair unbiased reading knows it is on point and most accurate.The ones that she is taklking about is the scary ones.

[William Anthony]

So in essence what you are saying is that the jury awarded damages for Ron's future earnings even though the Plaintiffs were specific in not asking for such?

Kate

No, that is not what I am saying. I am saying is that it is a possibility by the jury instructions and GreenIce may be correct and you may be correct by the argument and I am confused. :)

[William Anthony]

Ancient Chinese proverb-the truth is frequently scary. :)

[weezer]

If Nicole went to Michaels room accused her of assisting oj in his affairs and slapped her and knocked her to the groud SHE LOST IT AND DECKED HER.

please post link to supporting evidence that this happened.

[Kate Sachel]

Oh for goodness sake, if we're going to discuss the Nicole/Michelle the maid incident can we please get it correct?

First of all ... for those who care about the technical side, Nicole didn't punch Michelle, she slapped her in the face.

Secondly, this incident did not occur in 1989 as is being discussed but rather much later, I believe late 1993 or early 1994, I will have to look up the exact date.

Kate

[Kate Sachel]

Ancient Chinese proverb-the truth is frequently scary. :)

Though I have found, not as scary as those who pretend to know truth when in fact what they speak of is lies.

Kate

[old_soul]

I can spare you the research on the Klaas issue. In fact, one of the first things that Marc Klaas did was to volunteer a polygraph test. Law enforcement did not even have to request it of him.

Kate

Thank you, Kate. I was the one who made the initial statement re Mark Klass and Walsh not being able to jump in that chair fast enough. (with a bit of research, this can be verified). GreenIce maybe could post a link to show where she got her information?

Also, what Klass did say was that it was hard, maybe his word was torturous, because the 20-30 questions asked of him were tough.. He answered, and afterward, the polygraph expert (forgot his name at the moment) came out and said "well, that went well". Apparently that was the only inking Mark had that he had 'passed'...........He didn't ask, and he didn't care because he knew he was innocent.

In researching polys, more often than not, someone who is accused and ultimately found guilty, initially comes up with a bad result, or should I say shows deception. I will have to look and see how often that happens with one who is factually innocent, not just someone who Says they are innocent...

We know now to clear ourselves and let the investigation go further it's best to take it immediately. I would be especially leery of someone in that postion who says no....what is there to lose if one is innocent then? I recently read there are ex cons out there who are saying they could teach others how to pass the poly, that it can be beaten...Of course, nothing is concrete, and I'm sure if a liar actually believes they are not guilty because the victim 'asked for it', that could alter the results, couldn't it?

[weezer]

Oh for goodness sake, if we're going to discuss the Nicole/Michelle the maid incident can we please get it correct?

First of all ... for those who care about the technical side, Nicole didn't punch Michelle, she slapped her in the face.

Secondly, this incident did not occur in 1989 as is being discussed but rather much later, I believe late 1993 or early 1994, I will have to look up the exact date.

Kate

thanks kate -- from what I gather, it happened during the time that Nicole and orenthal were not living together but were talking reconciliation.

Cora Fischman's testimony, given on March 20, 1996

A: Oh, no, no. They had an argument. They had an argument
about-at the time they had an argument about the kids wanting to
play inside, and Michelle doesn't like the kids inside because the
house will get dirty, you know, and they had a heated
conversation, and then what Nicole did was slap Michelle, and
Michelle fell on the floor.

[weezer]

Thank you, Kate. I was the one who made the initial statement re Mark Klass and Walsh not being able to jump in that chair fast enough. (with a bit of research, this can be verified). GreenIce maybe could post a link to show where she got her information?

Also, what Klass did say was that it was hard, maybe his word was torturous, because the 20-30 questions asked of him were tough.. He answered, and afterward, the polygraph expert (forgot his name at the moment) came out and said "well, that went well". Apparently that was the only inking Mark had that he had 'passed'...........He didn't ask, and he didn't care because he knew he was innocent.

In researching polys, more often than not, someone who is accused and ultimately found guilty, initially comes up with a bad result, or should I say shows deception. I will have to look and see how often that happens with one who is factually innocent, not just someone who Says they are innocent...

We know now to clear ourselves and let the investigation go further it's best to take it immediately. I would be especially leery of someone in that postion who says no....what is there to lose if one is innocent then? I recently read there are ex cons out there who are saying they could teach others how to pass the poly, that it can be beaten...Of course, nothing is concrete, and I'm sure if a liar actually believes they are not guilty because the victim 'asked for it', that could alter the results, couldn't it?

during the civil trial, Petro asked orenthal about taking the lie detector and saying orenthal knew his score was -22.

[martin II]

What i have learned is that those that believe they are always right often times use lies to smother the truth.

[William Anthony]

Though I have found, not as scary as those who pretend to know truth when in fact what they speak of is lies.

Kate

"BEING A LADY !

"And now when everything is made as simple and striking as possible, there probably is no time to develop such a complicated characteristic as "being ladylike" (in its former soulful meaning). ... the former concept "lady" meant also beauty. Not the beauty of features or clothes, but a graceful behavior coming from self-control. A lady is not loud-voiced, her laughter is not shrill, she moves freely and peacefully. Everything in her is beautiful even when she is homely. ...

In the era of competition the ideal of woman has become somewhat hard and "efficient". Perhaps this will be once overcome when a real lady steps forwad, in her refined and composed brilliancy." - Kersti Bergroth, Finnish writer, theosophist"

It is a scary thing to remain a lady, but can be accomplished when speaking of others.:)

[old_soul]

during the civil trial, Petro asked orenthal about taking the lie detector and saying orenthal knew his score was -22.

Too bad it was halted...would have been an interesting to see if he could have made it to, oh, let's say 25? ;)

[martin II]

Nicole slapped the maid which knocked her to the floor
NICOLE DECKED THE MAID.

[martin II]

"BEING A LADY !

"And now when everything is made as simple and striking as possible, there probably is no time to develop such a complicated characteristic as "being ladylike" (in its former soulful meaning). ... the former concept "lady" meant also beauty. Not the beauty of features or clothes, but a graceful behavior coming from self-control. A lady is not loud-voiced, her laughter is not shrill, she moves freely and peacefully. Everything in her is beautiful even when she is homely. ...

In the era of competition the ideal of woman has become somewhat hard and "efficient". Perhaps this will be once overcome when a real lady steps forwad, in her refined and composed brilliancy." - Kersti Bergroth, Finnish writer, theosophist"

It is a scary thing to remain a lady, but can be accomplished when speaking of others.:)

If we stick around long enough maby a few will show up.

[tv]

If we stick around long enough maby a few will show up.

You managed to insult an entire forum with one sentence. Your opinion of me doesn't influence the way I behave on this forum. However, I did see your comment about Nicole the other day and you certainly didn't display the qualities of a gentleman. Maybe in your world, giving the wife a 'few licks' is acceptable but it's not in mine.

[tv]

Too bad it was halted...would have been an interesting to see if he could have made it to, oh, let's say 25? ;)

It would have very interesting to see the end result. The bottom line is that Bailey told Shapiro to halt the test for one reason and that was that OJS was not doing well. He's such a liar that he hasn't even admitted to taking the polygraph. You know, things are just a little different in OJ's world. ;)

[GreenIce]

Yes, you are defending Simpson. You defended him regarding breaking down the door and you are convinced he only battered her once. You're minimizing and trivializing the violent episodes in their relationship. I don't think the prosecutions motive fell apart. I think the jury didn't care that OJS beat his wife repeatedly. IMO, they may have felt that she deserved it as one other poster on this forum has insinuated.

TV,

I am posting the truth in regards to what was introduced into the criminal trial. I have posted over and over again, the DA's should have called in a DV expert to explain why this might not have been the only incident and why Nicole would "lie" about, assume responsibility for it. There was no proof introduced into the criminal trial. One juror said that when the police officer repeated allegedy what Simpson said about 8 times before, she was waiting for these to be introduced into trial. It was also in the testimony that after the 1989 incident that a call went out for any and all officers to come forward and give a statement any DV calls they responded to in regards to the Simpsons. One came forward, Mark Fuhrman and beat her windshield. So two of the 3 times that the jurors heard about it only once was him putting his hands on Nicole. Beating a windshield and kicking in a door, is wrong, but it can't be compared to beating a human being.

I think that is totally unfair to say that about the jury not caring that Simpson may have abused his wife, however, they could not read between the lines, they needed evidence, there wasn't any to back up the claims.

In Chris Darden's closing, he tries to throw Dr. Lenore Walker back in their face. Saying how they didn't call her and clearly giving the impression the defense didn't put her on the stand because they were afraid of her--It was the DA's who said the motive was DV---they should have called an expert and to explain it.

For the last time, the DA's should have called a DV expert to testify. In many ways DV is a lot like DNA, we have learned so much about it and the signs. I have also posted that there were probably jurors or people who were watching the trial who may have believed that since Nicole moved only a short distance away and she tried to get back together with him, they perhaps came to the wrong conclusion---an expert was needed to explain why this is common in these types of relationships.

You know as well as I do, a woman who kills her abuser while he is dead drunk or sleeping will be more likely then not spending the rest of her life in jail because there will be jurors who said that she murdered a defenseless man. She could have left, she could have taken the car, she could have taken the kids, etc. TV, every body has opinons, everybody "knows" what they would do if it were them. IMO, none of us know what we will do until were are in that situation.

[William Anthony]

You managed to insult an entire forum with one sentence. Your opinion of me doesn't influence the way I behave on this forum. However, I did see your comment about Nicole the other day and you certainly didn't display the qualities of a gentleman. Maybe in your world, giving the wife a 'few licks' is acceptable but it's not in mine.

My post was not intended to the ladies on this board and I do believe that those whom I consider ladies know who they are and in regard to any recent female posters let me say that they have done nothing to make me consider them as anything other than ladies. I guess it is not important what I think of any poster. However, although I posted in response to Kate it was not intended to her or the vast vast vast vast majority of female posters on this board. To them that have ears, let them hear.

[tv]

TV,

I am posting the truth in regards to what was introduced into the criminal trial. I have posted over and over again, the DA's should have called in a DV expert to explain why this might not have been the only incident and why Nicole would "lie" about, assume responsibility for it. There was no proof introduced into the criminal trial. One juror said that when the police officer repeated allegedy what Simpson said about 8 times before, she was waiting for these to be introduced into trial. It was also in the testimony that after the 1989 incident that a call went out for any and all officers to come forward and give a statement any DV calls they responded to in regards to the Simpsons. One came forward, Mark Fuhrman and beat her windshield. So two of the 3 times that the jurors heard about it only once was him putting his hands on Nicole. Beating a windshield and kicking in a door, is wrong, but it can't be compared to beating a human being.

I think that is totally unfair to say that about the jury not caring that Simpson may have abused his wife, however, they could not read between the lines, they needed evidence, there wasn't any to back up the claims.

In Chris Darden's closing, he tries to throw Dr. Lenore Walker back in their face. Saying how they didn't call her and clearly giving the impression the defense didn't put her on the stand because they were afraid of her--It was the DA's who said the motive was DV---they should have called an expert and to explain it.

For the last time, the DA's should have called a DV expert to testify. In many ways DV is a lot like DNA, we have learned so much about it and the signs. I have also posted that there were probably jurors or people who were watching the trial who may have believed that since Nicole moved only a short distance away and she tried to get back together with him, they perhaps came to the wrong conclusion---an expert was needed to explain why this is common in these types of relationships.

You know as well as I do, a woman who kills her abuser while he is dead drunk or sleeping will be more likely then not spending the rest of her life in jail because there will be jurors who said that she murdered a defenseless man. She could have left, she could have taken the car, she could have taken the kids, etc. TV, every body has opinons, everybody "knows" what they would do if it were them. IMO, none of us know what we will do until were are in that situation.
GreenIce, if you'll notice I used IMO when saying what I did about how the jury felt about Nicole.

[tv]

My post was not intended to the ladies on this board and I do believe that those whom I consider ladies know who they are and in regard to any recent female posters let me say that they have done nothing to make me consider them as anything other than ladies. I guess it is not important what I think of any poster. However, although I posted in response to Kate it was not intended to her or the vast vast vast vast majority of female posters on this board. To them that have ears, let them hear.My post was to martin. I could have responded to what you said earlier but I was hoping that them that have ears, let them hear.

[weezer]

My post was not intended to the ladies on this board and I do believe that those whom I consider ladies know who they are and in regard to any recent female posters let me say that they have done nothing to make me consider them as anything other than ladies. I guess it is not important what I think of any poster. However, although I posted in response to Kate it was not intended to her or the vast vast vast vast majority of female posters on this board. To them that have ears, let them hear.

thank you william --- that was very sweet. :rose:

[martin II]

Regardless of what the results would have been there was little chance that they would be allowed in court.

Shaperio had a reputation of negoiating pleas as a quick way to get rid of a case.Bailey the polygraph expert on the team had not approved the test but at that time Shaperio was the lead lawyer, When oj found out that Shaperio had made overtures to the prosecution about a plea he was demoted and Cochran was appointed lead council. Smart decision by oj.

Bailey gave a reasonable reason as to why he stopped the test and this is backed up by polygraph professionals in that industry.

It is my understanding that the examinor never released any questions, answers or score from the part of the test that was given but media did put out various scores/numbers they say was ojs score.
imo

[martin II]

You managed to insult an entire forum with one sentence. Your opinion of me doesn't influence the way I behave on this forum. However, I did see your comment about Nicole the other day and you certainly didn't display the qualities of a gentleman. Maybe in your world, giving the wife a 'few licks' is acceptable but it's not in mine.

The pictures of nicoles face indicated that there were marks that could have come from some hitting,slapping,falling but they indicate that she did get a few licks to her face wher by the hand of someone or falling against something.
I think that there are some ladies here but believe that there needs to be more.According to williams description.

[William Anthony]

My post was to martin. I could have responded to what you said earlier but I was hoping that them that have ears, let them hear.

I understood who your post was to but I did not want my post to be misinterpreted by anyone but alas, I think I failed. To them that have ears, let them hear.

[martin II]

It would have very interesting to see the end result. The bottom line is that Bailey told Shapiro to halt the test for one reason and that was that OJS was not doing well. He's such a liar that he hasn't even admitted to taking the polygraph. You know, things are just a little different in OJ's world. ;)


What we know is that there were no end results.

[weezer]

What we know is that there were no end results.

-22 sounds pretty much like an end result to me! :eek:

[tv]

-22 sounds pretty much like an end result to me! :eek:IMO, I think OJS probably thought he could BS the polygraph just liked he'd BSed everyone all his life. Unfortunately, the machine wasn't impressed by his 'juice' persona.

[martin II]

You managed to insult an entire forum with one sentence. Your opinion of me doesn't influence the way I behave on this forum. However, I did see your comment about Nicole the other day and you certainly didn't display the qualities of a gentleman. Maybe in your world, giving the wife a 'few licks' is acceptable but it's not in mine.

From my experience most ladies are able to voice their opinions and points of view as srong as any man and this is proper. From my experience i also know that most Ladies always hold something in reserve and at all cost avoid gutter language and foul mouth utterances. This i have found is a quality that most men respect and why some are called ladies and some other things.

The constant use of negative gutter language and the calling of nasty names assigned to others by some does not get it for me especially when it comes from a woman. Men are sometimes expected to act like fools or idiots but not ladies.

You may have a different opinion on this issue and i have no problem with that.I am just expressing a few qualities i think a real lady possess as opposed to a regular female.

There is a reason for the idea LADIES FIRST or TREAT HER LIKE A LADY. or SHE IS A LADY.This is because of their behavior and the manner in which they speak and act.

Thanks again William for your post.
IMO

[martin II]

My post was not intended to the ladies on this board and I do believe that those whom I consider ladies know who they are and in regard to any recent female posters let me say that they have done nothing to make me consider them as anything other than ladies. I guess it is not important what I think of any poster. However, although I posted in response to Kate it was not intended to her or the vast vast vast vast majority of female posters on this board. To them that have ears, let them hear.

I think it is easy to recognize ladies from just another person.

[martin II]

IMO, I think OJS probably thought he could BS the polygraph just liked he'd BSed everyone all his life. Unfortunately, the machine wasn't impressed by his 'juice' persona.

Maby like furhman thought he could do when he walked to the stand and before Bailey stood up.

[William Anthony]

From my experience most ladies are able to voice their opinions and points of view as srong as any man and this is proper. From my experience i also know that most Ladies always hold something in reserve and at all cost avoid gutter language and foul mouth utterances. This i have found is a quality that most men respect and why some are called ladies and some other things.

The constant use of negative gutter language and the calling of nasty names assigned to others by some does not get it for me especially when it comes from a woman. Men are sometimes expected to act like fools or idiots but not ladies.

You may have a different opinion on this issue and i have no problem with that.I am just expressing a few qualities i think a real lady possess as opposed to a regular female.

There is a reason for the idea LADIES FIRST or TREAT HER LIKE A LADY. or SHE IS A LADY.This is because of their behavior and the manner in which they speak and act.

Thanks again William for your post.
IMO

You ae very welcome and I might add that you expressed my like feelings very eloquently.

[GreenIce]

The argument states:

In determining the loss of which plaintiff Goldman has suffered, you are not to consider:

3. The poverty or wealth of Ronald Goldman.

Any award for future economic loss must be only for its present cash value.
Present cash value is the present sum of money which, together with the investment return thereon when invested so as to yield the highest rate
of return consistent with reasonable security, will pay the equivalent of future lost benefits at the times, in the amounts, and for the period that you
find such future benefits would have been received. The present cash value will, of course,be less than the amount you find to be the loss of such future benefits.



I'm not certain what the confusion is.

Kate

Kate,

Instructions are given to the civil trial jury, they are not given formulas. IMO, the only time we are truly all equal is when we are born and when we die--keeping that in mind, IMO, there should be one figure for 1 loss of life. It shouldn't matter how the victim lived their life, it shouldn't matter if they were born with a golden spoon in their mouth, it shouldn't matter what their career path was. It shouldn't matter if they had realistic dreams or not, none of this should matter. Black, white, male, female--one sum for 1 life.

What a jury does inside the jury room and how they interpet what the judge's instructions or whatever, we don't know. We don't know if they felt the Goldmans' suffered more emotional stress and trama then the Browns. Now, that might sound odd, however, The Browns have two things the Goldmans' will never have, that is Nicole's children. To be honest, if I was in the jury room, I would take this into consideration. I would also take into consideration Kim's situation. She went through a tremendous amount of pain and agony during both trials, however, IMO, she felt a whole different type of pain and agony when she became a mother. Those are my personal feelings. I am sure every single juror had their own experiences and used their own gauges on what they thought is a fair amount. I am not saying they were doing anything illegal.

[martin II]

TV,

I am posting the truth in regards to what was introduced into the criminal trial. I have posted over and over again, the DA's should have called in a DV expert to explain why this might not have been the only incident and why Nicole would "lie" about, assume responsibility for it. There was no proof introduced into the criminal trial. One juror said that when the police officer repeated allegedy what Simpson said about 8 times before, she was waiting for these to be introduced into trial. It was also in the testimony that after the 1989 incident that a call went out for any and all officers to come forward and give a statement any DV calls they responded to in regards to the Simpsons. One came forward, Mark Fuhrman and beat her windshield. So two of the 3 times that the jurors heard about it only once was him putting his hands on Nicole. Beating a windshield and kicking in a door, is wrong, but it can't be compared to beating a human being.

I think that is totally unfair to say that about the jury not caring that Simpson may have abused his wife, however, they could not read between the lines, they needed evidence, there wasn't any to back up the claims.

In Chris Darden's closing, he tries to throw Dr. Lenore Walker back in their face. Saying how they didn't call her and clearly giving the impression the defense didn't put her on the stand because they were afraid of her--It was the DA's who said the motive was DV---they should have called an expert and to explain it.

For the last time, the DA's should have called a DV expert to testify. In many ways DV is a lot like DNA, we have learned so much about it and the signs. I have also posted that there were probably jurors or people who were watching the trial who may have believed that since Nicole moved only a short distance away and she tried to get back together with him, they perhaps came to the wrong conclusion---an expert was needed to explain why this is common in these types of relationships.

You know as well as I do, a woman who kills her abuser while he is dead drunk or sleeping will be more likely then not spending the rest of her life in jail because there will be jurors who said that she murdered a defenseless man. She could have left, she could have taken the car, she could have taken the kids, etc. TV, every body has opinons, everybody "knows" what they would do if it were them. IMO, none of us know what we will do until were are in that situation.


GI
Let me say that i have always enjoyed the information and point of view that you have always brought to this forum.It shows that you are well informed
kind, honest and the manner in which you speak leaves no doubt that you are a lady in every respect.

Please keep up the good work. I am not the only poster here that agrees with what i have said.

Martin II

[William Anthony]

Kate,

Instructions are given to the civil trial jury, they are not given formulas. IMO, the only time we are truly all equal is when we are born and when we die--keeping that in mind, IMO, there should be one figure for 1 loss of life. It shouldn't matter how the victim lived their life, it shouldn't matter if they were born with a golden spoon in their mouth, it shouldn't matter what their career path was. It shouldn't matter if they had realistic dreams or not, none of this should matter. Black, white, male, female--one sum for 1 life.

What a jury does inside the jury room and how they interpet what the judge's instructions or whatever, we don't know. We don't know if they felt the Goldmans' suffered more emotional stress and trama then the Browns. Now, that might sound odd, however, The Browns have two things the Goldmans' will never have, that is Nicole's children. To be honest, if I was in the jury room, I would take this into consideration. I would also take into consideration Kim's situation. She went through a tremendous amount of pain and agony during both trials, however, IMO, she felt a whole different type of pain and agony when she became a mother. Those are my personal feelings. I am sure every single juror had their own experiences and used their own gauges on what they thought is a fair amount. I am not saying they were doing anything illegal.

I was able to find this and it seems the large part of the jury's award was based on punitive damages. It also gives some analysis of their thought process and most of the jurors disputes Petrocelli's claim to have proven Simpson guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/index/nns219.htm

[GreenIce]

I don't know the details of what happened between Nicole and the maid but Nicole wasn't on trial for brutally murdering the maid. OJS was on trial for murdering Nicole and Ron. Why does Nicole have to be put on trial in the process?

TV,

That is why so many G's post lose their true meaning. You have posted how OJ Simpson beat Nicole. How he used his hands to punch and slap her. You have said that is a loss of control and proves his violence. I am only using your exact same standards to measure Nicole's violence.

Are you saying that Nicole was justified to punch the maid?

I agree with you that Nicole was not on trial for murdering the maid, but then again, OJ was not on trial for beating Nicole. He already went through the system and paid his debt to society and he also never a laid another hand on her. That is the evidence in this case. There is no other evidence that Simpson beat Nicole. If there was then the DA's would have used it.

[fgump2]

The guard may have had pins in his shoes.No one paid any attention to this lie.

************************************************** **
I think the most logical interpretation is that the deputy who claimed that OJS confessed (I wrote guard previously) was telling the truth and OJS did confess.

I say this for two reasons. First of all since the deputy passed the lie detector test, and OJS either flunked it or was flunking it, it is logical to think that OJS is probably guilty. This is in spite of the fact that I don’t have much faith in lie detector tests.

My second reason for thinking that the confession was real was that if we examine what Cochran said afterwards in the days after the confession was reported, and also examine what the deputy said after the trial, it is logical to assume that the deputy was telling the truth.
After the deputy reported it to the authorities (Ito I suppose), Cochran said that it may have been a misinterpretation. OJS may have said something like “People think I did it”. and the deputy only heard “I did it”.

After the trial, the deputy sold his story to a part of the news media. The deputy said that OJS slammed the phone down and yelled “I didn’t mean to do it, I’m sorry”. Then R Grier replied “You gotta come clean, you gotta tell somebody”.

Bugliosi wrote that Grier “reportedly never visited Simpson after this incident”.

If we examine both what Cochran said, and what the deputy said, and also keep in mind that neither Cochran nor OJS accused the deputy of lying, the logical conclusion is to assume that the deputy was telling the truth and OJS confessed.

It makes a bad impression on me when people are quick to accuse people of lying.

[martin II]

You ae very welcome and I might add that you expressed my like feelings very eloquently.

Assigning nasty names to people based on what is used in ones local community,attacking people that have different opinions with gutter language
is what usually runs the discussion in the ditch.
People post here from all over the world so in that respect we have internaitonal group participation.Ignorant local language would seem to be out of place here.imo

[old_soul]

If we stick around long enough maby a few will show up.

:no:

Here are 3 reasons where it is believed 'Ladies First' came from. Nothing to do with behavior or manner in which they speak or act.

All thought up by men...who felt women should be in a subservient role...and to keep 'em down, they made up this Ladies First crap. Probably the same men who stated they wanted a w***e in the bedroom and a lady outside of it. Talk about having your cake and eating it too...Ha. At one time women were stupid enough to buy into it...not anymore, because those two words equal Less Pay for women. They know better now.
http://ask.yahoo.com/20060316.html

[martin II]

************************************************** **
I think the most logical interpretation is that the deputy who claimed that OJS confessed (I wrote guard previously) was telling the truth and OJS did confess.

I say this for two reasons. First of all since the deputy passed the lie detector test, and OJS either flunked it or was flunking it, it is logical to think that OJS is probably guilty. This is in spite of the fact that I don’t have much faith in lie detector tests.

My second reason for thinking that the confession was real was that if we examine what Cochran said afterwards in the days after the confession was reported, and also examine what the deputy said after the trial, it is logical to assume that the deputy was telling the truth.
After the deputy reported it to the authorities (Ito I suppose), Cochran said that it may have been a misinterpretation. OJS may have said something like “People think I did it”. and the deputy only heard “I did it”.

After the trial, the deputy sold his story to a part of the news media. The deputy said that OJS slammed the phone down and yelled “I didn’t mean to do it, I’m sorry”. Then R Grier replied “You gotta come clean, you gotta tell somebody”.

Bugliosi wrote that Grier “reportedly never visited Simpson after this incident”.

If we examine both what Cochran said, and what the deputy said, and also keep in mind that neither Cochran nor OJS accused the deputy of lying, the logical conclusion is to assume that the deputy was telling the truth and OJS confessed.

It makes a bad impression on me when people are quick to accuse people of lying.

Maby the deputy made up that story to sell it to the media to make a quick buck which i assume he did.

How do you know what cochran though about the lie the deputy told.

[William Anthony]

************************************************** **
I think the most logical interpretation is that the deputy who claimed that OJS confessed (I wrote guard previously) was telling the truth and OJS did confess.

I say this for two reasons. First of all since the deputy passed the lie detector test, and OJS either flunked it or was flunking it, it is logical to think that OJS is probably guilty. This is in spite of the fact that I don’t have much faith in lie detector tests.

My second reason for thinking that the confession was real was that if we examine what Cochran said afterwards in the days after the confession was reported, and also examine what the deputy said after the trial, it is logical to assume that the deputy was telling the truth.
After the deputy reported it to the authorities (Ito I suppose), Cochran said that it may have been a misinterpretation. OJS may have said something like “People think I did it”. and the deputy only heard “I did it”.

After the trial, the deputy sold his story to a part of the news media. The deputy said that OJS slammed the phone down and yelled “I didn’t mean to do it, I’m sorry”. Then R Grier replied “You gotta come clean, you gotta tell somebody”.

Bugliosi wrote that Grier “reportedly never visited Simpson after this incident”.

If we examine both what Cochran said, and what the deputy said, and also keep in mind that neither Cochran nor OJS accused the deputy of lying, the logical conclusion is to assume that the deputy was telling the truth and OJS confessed.

It makes a bad impression on me when people are quick to accuse people of lying.

I think you may want to read this.

http://www.answers.com/topic/rosey-grier

[martin II]

TV,

That is why so many G's post lose their true meaning. You have posted how OJ Simpson beat Nicole. How he used his hands to punch and slap her. You have said that is a loss of control and proves his violence. I am only using your exact same standards to measure Nicole's violence.

Are you saying that Nicole was justified to punch the maid?

I agree with you that Nicole was not on trial for murdering the maid, but then again, OJ was not on trial for beating Nicole. He already went through the system and paid his debt to society and he also never a laid another hand on her. That is the evidence in this case. There is no other evidence that Simpson beat Nicole. If there was then the DA's would have used it.

From her post i think that is exactly what she is saying. Oj is wrong for hitting nicole But Nicole is not wrong for hitting the maid.

[old_soul]

I am not opposed to a passionate lady and may excuse her momentary use of what some call foul language shall we say in the heat of a romantic interlude and such a display of passion may cause me to act in a somewhat irrational manner. :)

Ah ~ hem....irrational manner........you mean like spinning your head off or pounding your chest?! LOL

;)

[martin II]

:no:

Here are 3 reasons where it is believed 'Ladies First' came from. Nothing to do with behavior or manner in which they speak or act.

All thought up by men...who felt women should be in a subservient role...and to keep 'em down, they made up this Ladies First crap. Probably the same men who stated they wanted a w***e in the bedroom and a lady outside of it. Talk about having your cake and eating it too...Ha. At one time women were stupid enough to buy into it...not anymore, because those two words equal Less Pay for women. They know better now.
http://ask.yahoo.com/20060316.html

"Don't use that language we have ladies here"

[old_soul]

"Don't use that language we have ladies here"

LOL, now you know that's not a bad word! A derogatory word, yes....

[martin II]

I was able to find this and it seems the large part of the jury's award was based on punitive damages. It also gives some analysis of their thought process and most of the jurors disputes Petrocelli's claim to have proven Simpson guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/index/nns219.htm

So. Motive which some here thought was very important to show why they believe oj killed nicole was not considered by the jury.

How did they come to the idea that $25,000,000 should be the starting point.

[martin II]

************************************************** **
I think the most logical interpretation is that the deputy who claimed that OJS confessed (I wrote guard previously) was telling the truth and OJS did confess.

I say this for two reasons. First of all since the deputy passed the lie detector test, and OJS either flunked it or was flunking it, it is logical to think that OJS is probably guilty. This is in spite of the fact that I don’t have much faith in lie detector tests.

My second reason for thinking that the confession was real was that if we examine what Cochran said afterwards in the days after the confession was reported, and also examine what the deputy said after the trial, it is logical to assume that the deputy was telling the truth.
After the deputy reported it to the authorities (Ito I suppose), Cochran said that it may have been a misinterpretation. OJS may have said something like “People think I did it”. and the deputy only heard “I did it”.

After the trial, the deputy sold his story to a part of the news media. The deputy said that OJS slammed the phone down and yelled “I didn’t mean to do it, I’m sorry”. Then R Grier replied “You gotta come clean, you gotta tell somebody”.

Bugliosi wrote that Grier “reportedly never visited Simpson after this incident”.

If we examine both what Cochran said, and what the deputy said, and also keep in mind that neither Cochran nor OJS accused the deputy of lying, the logical conclusion is to assume that the deputy was telling the truth and OJS confessed.

It makes a bad impression on me when people are quick to accuse people of lying.

The prosecution,defence nor the judge paid any attention to this deputys claims.

[martin II]

LOL, now you know that's not a bad word! A derogatory word, yes....

It was a comment often spoken by men in a effort to show respect for a lady.

[William Anthony]

The prosecution,defence nor the judge paid any attention to this deputys claims.

The one person, who was in the best position to hear what Simpson allegedly said, said that Simpson never incriminated himself. There have been some posts, indicating none of Simpson's athletic cohorts ever stood up for him. Therefore, there is no reason to think that Mr. Rosie Grier did so.

[William Anthony]

So. Motive which some here thought was very important to show why they believe oj killed nicole was not considered by the jury.

How did they come to the idea that $25,000,000 should be the starting point.

"But the other jurors said the $25 million combined punitive award reached on Monday was easy to determine.

It was the amount of money plaintiffs' lawyers said Simpson stood to earn for the rest of his life."

[martin II]

"But the other jurors said the $25 million combined punitive award reached on Monday was easy to determine.

It was the amount of money plaintiffs' lawyers said Simpson stood to earn for the rest of his life."

For one the decision was the easiest thing she had ever done.Maby easier than turning on her tv set or brushing her teeth.
A few said the civil verdict does not mean that the criminal verdict was wrong. Some believe otherwise.

I wonder what evidence they used to calculate what oj would earn in the future? .He lost both jobs was generally blackballed by all American corporations. Every company made it clear that they would consider hiring him for anything.

So his future earnings was comming from where?

[William Anthony]

For one the decision was the easiest thing she had ever done.Maby easier than turning on her tv set or brushing her teeth.
A few said the civil verdict does not mean that the criminal verdict was wrong. Some believe otherwise.

I wonder what evidence they used to calculate what oj would earn in the future? .He lost both jobs was generally blackballed by all American corporations. Every company made it clear that they would consider hiring him for anything.

So his future earnings was comming from where?

His future earnings emanated from the fertile imaginations of the jurors.

[old_soul]

I am a triple bad MAN.:)

just a figure of speech, but, I stand corrected :)

[martin II]

His future earnings emanated from the fertile imaginations of the jurors.

If Hertz had felt some obligation to oj for all the money he made for them over the years he may have been able to make their imagination come true
and he would have been able to pay fred but the media made that impossible.

[William Anthony]

just a figure of speech, but, I stand corrected :)

Spoken like a true lady.:)

[William Anthony]

If Hertz had felt some obligation to oj for all the money he made for them over the years he may have been able to make their imagination come true
and he would have been able to pay fred but the media made that impossible.

The media and the court of public opinion.

[martin II]

************************************************** **
I think the most logical interpretation is that the deputy who claimed that OJS confessed (I wrote guard previously) was telling the truth and OJS did confess.

I say this for two reasons. First of all since the deputy passed the lie detector test, and OJS either flunked it or was flunking it, it is logical to think that OJS is probably guilty. This is in spite of the fact that I don’t have much faith in lie detector tests.I was under the impression that the deputy took a test regarding what he said he heard oj say and oj took a test about the murders.

My second reason for thinking that the confession was real was that if we examine what Cochran said afterwards in the days after the confession was reported, and also examine what the deputy said after the trial, it is logical to assume that the deputy was telling the truth.
After the deputy reported it to the authorities (Ito I suppose), Cochran said that it may have been a misinterpretation. OJS may have said something like “People think I did it”. and the deputy only heard “I did it”.Cochran made a logical comment if he in fact said what you say he said

After the trial, the deputy sold his story to a part of the news media. The deputy said that OJS slammed the phone down and yelled “I didn’t mean to do it, I’m sorry”. Then R Grier replied “You gotta come clean, you gotta tell somebody”.R Grier said oj never incriminated himself

Bugliosi wrote that Grier “reportedly never visited Simpson after this incident”.
Was VB in charge of ojs visitor list?
If we examine both what Cochran said, and what the deputy said, and also keep in mind that neither Cochran nor OJS accused the deputy of lying, the logical conclusion is to assume that the deputy was telling the truth and OJS confessed.This was a non issue so there was no reason for Cochran or oj to comment
What you call logic seems to be supported only by speculation or the word of a deputy.

It makes a bad impression on me when people are quick to accuse people of lying.

It is quite easy to come to conclusions when one thinks he has the answers.
Just make stuff up and say its true.

[martin II]

The media and the court of public opinion.

If this jury had not done what they did the Santa Monica community would have run them out of town before noon the next day.The die was set immediately when the not guilty verdict was read.Comments like "it ain't over yet. we can get him in the civil trial" 'There is still a chance in the civil trial" "the civil trial will be different"

The CA legislature passed a special bill, the court administrator selected the judge.Petrocelli made a list of issues that effectively cut the heart of the defence arguments, the judge agreed and did just that.The jury was selected
and the dog and pony show started.

I have wondered why the civil trial was not held in LA as the criminal trial was.imo

[Kate Sachel]

My post was not intended to the ladies on this board and I do believe that those whom I consider ladies know who they are and in regard to any recent female posters let me say that they have done nothing to make me consider them as anything other than ladies. I guess it is not important what I think of any poster. However, although I posted in response to Kate it was not intended to her or the vast vast vast vast majority of female posters on this board. To them that have ears, let them hear.

Frankly I took it as insulting to me. Although I am now having a fairly decent time watching martin backpedal from his original statement regarding waiting long enough and maybe a few will show up after realizing his error, so I suppose it offered some positive entertainment as the final result.

Kate

[tv]

TV,

That is why so many G's post lose their true meaning. You have posted how OJ Simpson beat Nicole. How he used his hands to punch and slap her. You have said that is a loss of control and proves his violence. I am only using your exact same standards to measure Nicole's violence.

Are you saying that Nicole was justified to punch the maid?

I agree with you that Nicole was not on trial for murdering the maid, but then again, OJ was not on trial for beating Nicole. He already went through the system and paid his debt to society and he also never a laid another hand on her. That is the evidence in this case. There is no other evidence that Simpson beat Nicole. If there was then the DA's would have used it.

If you really believe he never hit Nicole again after 1989 then you're living in a fantasy world. Nicole tells us with her own words that he did it again. If you want to use my standards to judge Nicole it's fine with me. Frankly, I don't care what happened between Nicole and the maid. It has zero to do with the murders except it shows that OJ Simpson was a callus SOB to Nicole by letting the maid tell her what to do with the house and the children.

[tv]

"Don't use that language we have ladies here"Oh, really? I thought you were still waiting for some to show up?

[William Anthony]

Frankly I took it as insulting to me. Although I am now having a fairly decent time watching martin backpedal from his original statement regarding waiting long enough and maybe a few will show up after realizing his error, so I suppose it offered some positive entertainment as the final result.

Kate

Believe me it was not meant as an insult to you. I realized that some may think it was and I did not think that one of them would be you. I understand how ladies may get their feathers ruffled sometimes and act out of character but to me that is just a sign of their passion. I consider myself to be a gentleman and sometimes I get my feathers ruffled. I was talking about any posters, who it seems that to act out of character means to act like a lady. Trouble is easy enough for me to find trouble without having to look for it.:)

[William Anthony]

If this jury had not done what they did the Santa Monica community would have run them out of town before noon the next day.The die was set immediately when the not guilty verdict was read.Comments like "it ain't over yet. we can get him in the civil trial" 'There is still a chance in the civil trial" "the civil trial will be different"

The CA legislature passed a special bill, the court administrator selected the judge.Petrocelli made a list of issues that effectively cut the heart of the defence arguments, the judge agreed and did just that.The jury was selected
and the dog and pony show started.

I have wondered why the civil trial was not held in LA as the criminal trial was.imo

I vaguely remember but what special bill was passed? Venue is related to the county the act took place in and considers the location of the witnesses. I believe that most of the witnesses lived in Los Angeles. Another issue is diversity of Citizenship. It seems the court circumvented the issue when it joined Ms. Rufo's cause of action with that of the other plaintiffs. It would be my guess that the federal court was located in LA.

[William Anthony]

Oh, really? I thought you were still waiting for some to show up?

I am waiting for Texas to succeed the union. I believe they have been lobbying for such.

[martin II]

I vaguely remember but what special bill was passed? Venue is related to the county the act took place in and considers the location of the witnesses. I believe that most of the witnesses lived in Los Angeles. Another issue is diversity of Citizenship. It seems the court circumvented the issue when it joined Ms. Rufo's cause of action with that of the other plaintiffs. It would be my guess that the federal court was located in LA.

If i am correct the special bill was about allowing some evidence to be allowed by the prosecution that was not allowed during the criminal trial.
One of the reason the criminal trial was held in la was that the Santa Monica court room was too small for the media and others expected to attend.
If having diversity was a concern then LA seemed to be a place most likely to supply it.But one has to consider what the media and public opinion demanded
as far as results was concerned.Santa Monica was more likely to give the desired jury.

[martin II]

Oh, really? I thought you were still waiting for some to show up?

TV
On many ocassions i have told you that you were one of my favorite posters.I think you know this.:cool:

[martin II]

If you really believe he never hit Nicole again after 1989 then you're living in a fantasy world. Nicole tells us with her own words that he did it again. If you want to use my standards to judge Nicole it's fine with me. Frankly, I don't care what happened between Nicole and the maid. It has zero to do with the murders except it shows that OJ Simpson was a callus SOB to Nicole by letting the maid tell her what to do with the house and the children.

In Michaels case she was hired by oj to keep the house in order and manage the children which she must have done to his satisfaction as she had been the maid for some time and there had been no problem caused by Michael up until the day Nicole slapped and knocked her down. A maid has a right to expect that she will not be physically abused by anyone in the house.
The earings had nothing to do with nicoles murder but we have discussed that.imo

[martin II]

Considering how complicated the award calculations can be and how easy it is
for jurors personal opinions to enter into the calculations i am inclined to agree with Gi that there should be a set amount for every dead body.Each human life should be measured as equal.

[William Anthony]

TV
On many ocassions i have told you that you were one of my favorite posters.I think you know this.:cool:

Are you calling Ms. Tvdinner a lady of loyalty? :)

[William Anthony]

If i am correct the special bill was about allowing some evidence to be allowed by the prosecution that was not allowed during the criminal trial.
One of the reason the criminal trial was held in la was that the Santa Monica court room was too small for the media and others expected to attend.
If having diversity was a concern then LA seemed to be a place most likely to supply it.But one has to consider what the media and public opinion demanded
as far as results was concerned.Santa Monica was more likely to give the desired jury.

Very clever:). Yes the court may have destroyed the diversity of citizenship over their concern that the federal court may be required to select a jury, which might be diverse, imho, if that federal court was in LA.

[GreenIce]

If you really believe he never hit Nicole again after 1989 then you're living in a fantasy world. Nicole tells us with her own words that he did it again. If you want to use my standards to judge Nicole it's fine with me. Frankly, I don't care what happened between Nicole and the maid. It has zero to do with the murders except it shows that OJ Simpson was a callus SOB to Nicole by letting the maid tell her what to do with the house and the children.

TV,

Perhaps you are right, I am living in a fantasy world. But you see, in my world, I do not want to believe that the LAPD responded 8 times to DV calls regarding the Simpsons. I don't want to believe that Nicole was not worthy enough for any of them to make an initial report. I don't want to believe they again found Nicole not worthy enough when the call out was issued to the LAPD, if they had any knowledge or responded to any DV calls after the 1989 incident. I don't want to believe that even after Nicole was murdered these same cops again did not feel that Nicole was worth their time or effort to testify.

I don't want to believe that the Browns knew that with every punch, kick, whatever, had their name on it. They knew the brutalilty of the situation and chose the color of money rather then black and blue marks on their daughter.

I don't want to believe that Nicole's "friends" knew about this and they still opted to participate with Nicole's quest to get back with Simpson.

I don't want to believe that Nicole did feel that her family loved Simpson more then her so that is why she stayed in the relationship.

I don't want to believe that these same friends, who say Nicole felt this way about her family never went to her family to say, 'hey, Nicole is getting beat and you know what, every bruise has your name on it! She is staying in this relationship because she doesn't feel she has a family who will support her emotionally.

So if I live in a fantasy world on this issue, it is only because I want to believe that someone would have helped her. Someone would have done everything they could to stop this. I want to believe that the LAPD were not more concerned with their jobs or careers and at least one of them, beside MF, to testify.

We heard what Nicole said in an interview with the police that she did not know was being recording. We know that in her divorce papers she also said that it never happened again. When Nicole wrote in her diaries was not written under the penality of perjury. We do not know what Nicole would have testified to while under oath.

TV, the point about Nicole hitting the maid is that she became very, very angry with another human being and she did something that she knew was wrong but hit the maid anyway. She lost control, she was a human being.

When Nicole hit the maid, she was not living at Rockingham. Michelle worked for Simpson, not Nicole. Apparently Nicole had issues with the hired help because didn't Simpson write her a letter about using his housekeep as her babysitter? Didn't he say that he had no problem with the kids being left at Rockingham if he, Arnelle or Jason was home? Didn't he also say that Rockingham was their home as well?

You have accused me of trivializing (sp?) the abuse in the relationship, however, if you accuse me of, then you have to accuse the LAPD, the DA's, The Browns' and last but not least, her so called "friends". IMO.

[GreenIce]

I haven't had time to research your claims, which I find myself doing quite often, about Marc Klaas and John Walsh. It's fairly obvious to me that OJS said he was having 'weird' thoughts about Nicole because he knew he was going to have a problem on the polygraph. Here he is admitting to having thoughts of harming Nicole and you still don't believe he did it. I have a lot of faith in polygraphs but they're not infallible. I have a question for you -- if you saw OJS committ the murders on video would you believe it?

TV,

Would you believe a self admitted lying, evidence planting, racist SOB of cop if you heard tapes of his voice in the so called "trial of the century"?

I never said Simpson wouldn't kill Nicole, I believe given the evidence, he couldn't have. However, if I saw it on tape, I would believe he did it but I would still say the verdict in the criminal trial was correct.

[GreenIce]

That's what I've always heard him say in the many interviews he's given. Thanks for corroborating this. :)

TV,

Kate is not correct on this. If you google Marc Klaas name with lie detector test, you come up with quite a few transcripts on this. In one transcripts, I believe it was with Paula Zahn, he says that he does not believe in them, or had no faith in them. He talks about how hard it was for him to do this and talked about the FBI agent who explained to him how it worked.

On the Larry King Live Show, he talks about how frightening it is to take that test. MK never voluneetered to take the test.

I did not find the transcript that had both JW and MK on it. However, there are enough transcripts to support what I posted was true.

BTW, no police agency can force anyone to take the test, however, the "pressure" they apply could never be called "volunteering". We all know what happens when some refuses to take one. IMO.

One last thing, Marc Klaas the real reason or how he was able to take the test is that he had to put his daugther's needs above his own. IMO, that is saying he was upset about asked to take the test and would have refused had it not been for his daughter and the investigation. He knew the sooner they took the focus off of him and his family, the better.

[weezer]

TV,

Would you believe a self admitted lying, evidence planting, racist SOB of cop if you heard tapes of his voice in the so called "trial of the century"?

I never said Simpson wouldn't kill Nicole, I believe given the evidence, he couldn't have. However, if I saw it on tape, I would believe he did it but I would still say the verdict in the criminal trial was correct.

just so we're clear on this: after numerous investigations before, during and since the trial, there is and has never been any evidence that any of the crap the defense threw against the wall ever happened. if, however, you have proof otherwise, please post it. not your emotional reaction to ugly words written for a screenplay -- proof/evidence that the acts happened.

[weezer]

I am waiting for Texas to succeed the union. I believe they have been lobbying for such.

Remember the Alamo! ;)

[William Anthony]

I say let them succeed and keep their Alamo.

[GreenIce]

************************************************** **
I think the most logical interpretation is that the deputy who claimed that OJS confessed (I wrote guard previously) was telling the truth and OJS did confess.

I say this for two reasons. First of all since the deputy passed the lie detector test, and OJS either flunked it or was flunking it, it is logical to think that OJS is probably guilty. This is in spite of the fact that I don’t have much faith in lie detector tests.

My second reason for thinking that the confession was real was that if we examine what Cochran said afterwards in the days after the confession was reported, and also examine what the deputy said after the trial, it is logical to assume that the deputy was telling the truth.
After the deputy reported it to the authorities (Ito I suppose), Cochran said that it may have been a misinterpretation. OJS may have said something like “People think I did it”. and the deputy only heard “I did it”.

After the trial, the deputy sold his story to a part of the news media. The deputy said that OJS slammed the phone down and yelled “I didn’t mean to do it, I’m sorry”. Then R Grier replied “You gotta come clean, you gotta tell somebody”.

Bugliosi wrote that Grier “reportedly never visited Simpson after this incident”.

If we examine both what Cochran said, and what the deputy said, and also keep in mind that neither Cochran nor OJS accused the deputy of lying, the logical conclusion is to assume that the deputy was telling the truth and OJS confessed.

It makes a bad impression on me when people are quick to accuse people of lying.

fgump2,

The guard may have passed the lie detector and he may be telling the truth on what he thought he heard. Since he did not hear the whole conversation, he can't be positive of contents of the whole conversation.

Like you, I do not hold much faith in lie detector tests. I think they are nothing more the publicity stunt or public relations tool. I don't think they should be allowed, period.

Having said that, I think it is fair to say that some people truly believe they are an accurate tool. I also think it is fair to say that these examiners and lawyers have worked very long and very hard to state their case. In the process of stating their case for their position, they have come up with guidelines or rules on when the test should be taken, how long between "rounds", what type of questions that lead up to the "real questions".

Now, by going by their own guidelines, Simpson was given the test too soon. Through years and years of research, they determined that there is a difference of results, they have compared test results given within the first few hours vs 72 hours later----I think it is 72 hours.


Shapiro, in interviews, says he does ask his clients if they did it. He needs to know this so he can prepare his case. I do not think that any defense lawyer believes their client when they say they didn't do it. However, any defense lawyer would be a fool if he did not have some "tests" to give his client regarding the truth. Shapiro had to know, like all defense lawyers, that guilty or not, their client is going to say they want to take the stand. A lawyer can't put them on the stand if they know they are going to lie.

I have been a critic of Shapiro on this issue, as well as the person who gave the exam. However, if you look at the guidelines of the test, Simpson should have failed the test.

Had Simpson passed that test, then that to me, and probably Bob Shapiro that he did it. How could anyone pass that test within so many hours of being told of the murder as well as knowing you are the prime suspect?

Doesn't it make sense that he should have failed it? Wouldn't his calm cool demeanor been a huge guilt sign if he passed it?

Also, a drug dealer says he sold Kato and Simpson drugs that night, he passed his lie detector test. Apparently this person is a few french fries short of a happy meal. His going to the police to tell them that he is a drug dealer and that he sold drugs to them that night and passed a lie detector test should have put in him in jail for being a drug dealer. IMO.

[weezer]

If you really believe he never hit Nicole again after 1989 then you're living in a fantasy world. Nicole tells us with her own words that he did it again. If you want to use my standards to judge Nicole it's fine with me. Frankly, I don't care what happened between Nicole and the maid. It has zero to do with the murders except it shows that OJ Simpson was a callus SOB to Nicole by letting the maid tell her what to do with the house and the children.

I think if you take all that Nicole wrote in her diary, Jason's beating the statue, Sydney's physical encounter at the ball game, the DV calls between christy and orenthal, the smack down of orenthal by arnelle -- sounds like that's just part of a simpson household.

[GreenIce]

TV,

I forgot something in my post about Marc Klaas and the lie detector test. I should have posted "at that time" he had no faith in them. It appears to me that as he learned more and more about them, he did believe they were a solid tool.

[GreenIce]

Later a maid GIGI was his maid so Michael either quit or oj eventually let her go in order to have some peace in his house.I don't know if she made any charges against Nicole but i doubt it.I think she would have told oj I am leaving.i think oj had hired Michael before Nicole came to live at ojs house and she saw herself as working for oj.Nocole may have been trying to assert herself in the house but obviously in a was in a way that was not acceptable to the maid.imo

Martin,

I think Michelle is a Sabra, she may have gone back to Israel for awhile. I think Simpson knew he had to make a choice. However, it appears to me that Simpson wanted Michelle to press charges and she didn't. Maybe they are just two people who never gotten along and never would have gotten along.

[GreenIce]

:no:

Here are 3 reasons where it is believed 'Ladies First' came from. Nothing to do with behavior or manner in which they speak or act.

All thought up by men...who felt women should be in a subservient role...and to keep 'em down, they made up this Ladies First crap. Probably the same men who stated they wanted a w***e in the bedroom and a lady outside of it. Talk about having your cake and eating it too...Ha. At one time women were stupid enough to buy into it...not anymore, because those two words equal Less Pay for women. They know better now.
http://ask.yahoo.com/20060316.html

Old Soul,

I have to disagree with you, I blame God for this. Apparently he is still not over that whole apple eating incident in his garden and he as made sure that womankind will pay for this until the end of time. I really think his mom needs to talk to him about "getting over" it. IMO. He needs to move and face it that Eve did not force him to do anything that he did not want to do. Adam should have gone to God and "man up". Again, IMO.

[tv]

TV
On many ocassions i have told you that you were one of my favorite posters.I think you know this.:cool:

I appreciate that martin :), but I don't like to see anyone singled out and ganged up on and I feel that's what's in the process of happening here. I hope I'm wrong. :(

[William Anthony]

I appreciate that martin :), but I don't like to see anyone singled out and ganged up on and I feel that's what's in the process of happening here. I hope I'm wrong. :(

Why would you think anyone was being singled out and ganged up on and did that concern you when Martin and I were singled out and accused of being the ones to have the thread closed and, if it did, why did you not voice your concerns about singling out and ganging on then? Don't interpret this as an accusation, only an inquiry, which I might add, you are able to ignore.

[tv]

His future earnings emanated from the fertile imaginations of the jurors.

An expert forensic accountant, Neill Freeman, calculated OJ Simpson's worth at the time of the civil trial. He was worth $30 million, pre-tax. He also calculated how much money OJS earned up to that point as a result of killing two people:

Book (I Want to Tell You) $991,743
Video......................................303,500
Star Photos..............................433,693
Interviews.................................75,300
Autographs/Memorabilia............1,013,900

Total...................................$2,818.136

Who knows how much he's earned from the killings in the years since 1994? Even martin says he has off-shore accounts. I have no doubt.

[William Anthony]

Old Soul,

I have to disagree with you, I blame God for this. Apparently he is still not over that whole apple eating incident in his garden and he as made sure that womankind will pay for this until the end of time. I really think his mom needs to talk to him about "getting over" it. IMO. He needs to move and face it that Eve did not force him to do anything that he did not want to do. Adam should have gone to God and "man up". Again, IMO.

Perhaps, God in his infinite wisdom knew that a woman would never be complacent with being subservient to a man and He understood that a lady would never deceive her husband but find a way to remain a lady and still be on equal footing with a man. Perhaps, this was God's way of informing man that not every woman is a lady.

[William Anthony]

Good morning, Ms. Tvdinner

I did not realize this was your post.

The jury relied on the fertile imagination of a junk craftsman to estimate what he thought Simpson's future earnings would be but did not take into account all the revenue he would lose as a result of a finding of civil liability by a post. I stand corrected.

[tv]

Why would you think anyone was being singled out and ganged up on and did that concern you when Martin and I were singled out and accused of being the ones to have the thread closed and, if it did, why did you not voice your concerns about singling out and ganging on then? Don't interpret this as an accusation, only an inquiry, which I might add, you are able to ignore.To quote you recently -- done. :rolleyes:

[tv]

Good morning, Ms. Tvdinner

I did not realize this was your post.

The jury relied on the fertile imagination of a junk craftsman to estimate what he thought Simpson's future earnings would be but did not take into account all the revenue he would lose as a result of a finding of civil liability by a post. I stand corrected.Twist, twist, twist.

[GreenIce]

An expert forensic accountant, Neill Freeman, calculated OJ Simpson's worth at the time of the civil trial. He was worth $30 million, pre-tax. He also calculated how much money OJS earned up to that point as a result of killing two people:

Book (I Want to Tell You) $991,743
Video......................................303,500
Star Photos..............................433,693
Interviews.................................75,300
Autographs/Memorabilia............1,013,900

Total...................................$2,818.136

Who knows how much he's earned from the killings in the years since 1994? Even martin says he has off-shore accounts. I have no doubt.

TV,

IMO, people have been making money off of death since the beginning of time. Yes, Mr. Simpson made money off the murders, but he also still had two minor children to support. It doesn't matter what you think of him or that you believe he killed their mother, he still is responsible for them.

Mr. Simpson was not the only one who wrote a book, was paid for pictures being taken or pedaled a video for profit. I do not judge these actions because I don't know all of the facts or the motives that were behind them. I do believe Simpson knows what "blood money" is and he never denied it.

In regards to off shore accounts, what exactly are they? Are they legal to have? Isn't it fair to say that many, many people have used these accounts to protect their money? That thousands of people have used these accounts to "hide" assets.

If these accounts are for the sole purpose of hiding assets, then how did they legally come to be?

[tv]

Good morning, Ms. Tvdinner

I did not realize this was your post.

The jury relied on the fertile imagination of a junk craftsman to estimate what he thought Simpson's future earnings would be but did not take into account all the revenue he would lose as a result of a finding of civil liability by a post. I stand corrected.

By the way, good morning.

[William Anthony]

To quote you recently -- done. :rolleyes:

Thank you.

[tv]

TV,

IMO, people have been making money off of death since the beginning of time. Yes, Mr. Simpson made money off the murders, but he also still had two minor children to support. It doesn't matter what you think of him or that you believe he killed their mother, he still is responsible for them.

Mr. Simpson was not the only one who wrote a book, was paid for pictures being taken or pedaled a video for profit. I do not judge these actions because I don't know all of the facts or the motives that were behind them. I do believe Simpson knows what "blood money" is and he never denied it.

In regards to off shore accounts, what exactly are they? Are they legal to have? Isn't it fair to say that many, many people have used these accounts to protect their money? That thousands of people have used these accounts to "hide" assets.

If these accounts are for the sole purpose of hiding assets, then how did they legally come to be?
I know zero about off-shore accounts. martin seems to be quite knowledgable -- I'm sure he'd be happy to explain.

The problem with OJS making money off the murders is that he is the murderer. If you can't see that it was obscene for him to attend slasher conventions to sign autographs I don't know what to say to you. He didn't have to insult the memory of his children's mother to make money. His NFL pension was $26,000 a month.

[William Anthony]

Twist, twist, twist.

I am accused of twisting for saying I stand corrected.:shrug::)

[GreenIce]

I appreciate that martin :), but I don't like to see anyone singled out and ganged up on and I feel that's what's in the process of happening here. I hope I'm wrong. :(

TV,

We see this case differently. We support our views with various resources as well as our hearts. The names and the tone of some of those posts were written only to incite even more heated exchanges--thus risking have the thread shut down.

You made a recent post about not caring if Nicole hit the maid because OJ was a callous SOB, in other words, you are blaming OJ for Nicole hitting the maid. You are now blaming me, Martin and William for this posters verbal abuse because we have different opinons on this case.

This poster nor for that matter any G poster has not supported any claims that any of the issues we have brought up are unreasonable or illogical. In fact, you never explain why it is not supported or unreasonable. Perhaps if you did, then we might come to understanding each other better. Not that we will agree but understanding is a clear possibility, IMO.

The poster can disagree with out resorting to that type of behavior. I also feel that when someone takes umbridge at post because it was meant to be hurtful and spiteful, and brings it to the poster's attention, I think it is reasonable to expect that person to apologize.

I have made the choice to ignore this poster. I will not respond to the poster because then I will be encouraging this behavior. It can only go down hill, IMO.

[tv]

So. Motive which some here thought was very important to show why they believe oj killed nicole was not considered by the jury.

How did they come to the idea that $25,000,000 should be the starting point.
From Daniel Petrocelli's book:

Mark Roesler, an expert in the business of celebrity names and likenesses, testified that he estimated Simpson's celebrity value at $25 million, explaining he was worth substantially more because of his notoriety as a famous killer.

Simpson sent Skip Taft to convince the jury he was broke. With Taft on the stand, Peter Gelblum elicited the disturbing fact that one month after the murders Simpson trademarked his name on over five hundred different goods and products, including cutlery. OJ Knives. The man had no shame.

[GreenIce]

I know zero about off-shore accounts. martin seems to be quite knowledgable -- I'm sure he'd be happy to explain.

The problem with OJS making money off the murders is that he is the murderer. If you can't see that it was obscene for him to attend slasher conventions to sign autographs I don't know what to say to you. He didn't have to insult the memory of his children's mother to make money. His NFL pension was $26,000 a month.

TV,

First, Simpson was aquitted in the criminal trial and has said from day one that he would not pay a dime for a crime he didn't commit. Since I truly believe that there is not one single poster on this board who would pay for a crime they didn't commit--especially after being aquitted in a criminal trial, I have no problems with this. And if you were rich and famous and the same thing happened to you, I would feel no differently.

Why do woman become whores? Is it because they love sex so much and they figure the should get paid for their pleasure? Yes, I do believe Simpson is a male *****, however, he is a male ***** who needs to support his family.

In Nicole's divorcee, she asked for a certain amount of money to keep Sydney and Justin in the same lifestyle they became accustomed to while their parents were married. IMO, he had a respondsibility to do that while Nicole was alive as well as after her death. To the best of my knowledge, Simpson has raised the children according Nicole's wishes.

One more point, as much as you say how Simpson has trashed Nicole with these actions---what about the people who are willing to pay him? What does that say about us? What about the Goldmans' publishing the book? Didn't they have a right to do what they did? And do we have the right to call them the same names that they have called Simpson?

You can't have it both ways, IMO.

[GreenIce]

From Daniel Petrocelli's book:

Mark Roesler, an expert in the business of celebrity names and likenesses, testified that he estimated Simpson's celebrity value at $25 million, explaining he was worth substantially more because of his notoriety as a famous killer.

Simpson sent Skip Taft to convince the jury he was broke. With Taft on the stand, Peter Gelblum elicited the disturbing fact that one month after the murders Simpson trademarked his name on over five hundred different goods and products, including cutlery. OJ Knives. The man had no shame.

TV,

If Petrocelli is telling the truth as well as the Goldmans' about why they brought this suit, they wouldn't care about his assets or his wealth. It wouldn't have made a difference to them if he was worth 5 bucks or 5 million.

In trademarking his name, this has been done in the past and it will continue to be done. Again, there are trademark laws on the books. Are we suppose to throw out all those laws because they work in one man's favor?

[William Anthony]

From Daniel Petrocelli's book:

Mark Roesler, an expert in the business of celebrity names and likenesses, testified that he estimated Simpson's celebrity value at $25 million, explaining he was worth substantially more because of his notoriety as a famous killer.

Simpson sent Skip Taft to convince the jury he was broke. With Taft on the stand, Peter Gelblum elicited the disturbing fact that one month after the murders Simpson trademarked his name on over five hundred different goods and products, including cutlery. OJ Knives. The man had no shame.

As with everything so-called experts can and do disagree, even accountants.

http://www.bateswhite.com/news/pdf/Bates_White_IB_case_study.pdf

[tv]

TV,

We see this case differently. We support our views with various resources as well as our hearts. The names and the tone of some of those posts were written only to incite even more heated exchanges--thus risking have the thread shut down.

You recent made a post about not caring if Nicole hit the maid because OJ was a callous SOB, in other words, you are blaming OJ for Nicole hitting the maid. You are now blaming me, Martin and William for this posters verbal abuse because we have different opinons on this case.

The poster can disagree with out resorting to that type of behavior. I also feel that when someone takes umbridge at post because it was meant to be hurtful and spiteful, and brings it to the poster's attention, I think it is reasonable to expect that person to apologize.

I have made the choice to ignore this poster. I will not respond to the poster because then I will be encouraging this behavior. It can only go down hill, IMO.

I don't care if Nicole hit the maid because it has nothing to do with the case. Please point out to me where I said it was okay for Nicole to hit the maid because of OJS. That is NOT what I said or what I meant.

If you want to ignore this poster (also known as weezer) that's your business. :shrug:

I don't know what you're talking about when you say that I'm blaming you, William and martin for verbal abuse. I'm sorry to say this but sometimes you're really out there.

[tv]

As with everything so-called experts can and do disagree, even accountants.

http://www.bateswhite.com/news/pdf/Bates_White_IB_case_study.pdfOkay, you win. OJS was a penniless beggar with no hope of ever moving out of the cardboard box he lived in on the street.

[tv]

TV,

If Petrocelli is telling the truth as well as the Goldmans' about why they brought this suit, they wouldn't care about his assets or his wealth. It wouldn't have made a difference to them if he was worth 5 bucks or 5 million.

In trademarking his name, this has been done in the past and it will continue to be done. Again, there are trademark laws on the books. Are we suppose to throw out all those laws because they work in one man's favor?

From Petrocelli's book:

We had one final task. We were REQUIRED BY LAW to prove Simpson's financial condition, to enable the jury to decide how much punitive damages to assess against him.

[tv]

TV,

First, Simpson was aquitted in the criminal trial and has said from day one that he would not pay a dime for a crime he didn't commit. Since I truly believe that there is not one single poster on this board who would pay for a crime they didn't commit--especially after being aquitted in a criminal trial, I have no problems with this. And if you were rich and famous and the same thing happened to you, I would feel no differently.

Why do woman become whores? Is it because they love sex so much and they figure the should get paid for their pleasure? Yes, I do believe Simpson is a male *****, however, he is a male ***** who needs to support his family.

In Nicole's divorcee, she asked for a certain amount of money to keep Sydney and Justin in the same lifestyle they became accustomed to while their parents were married. IMO, he had a respondsibility to do that while Nicole was alive as well as after her death. To the best of my knowledge, Simpson has raised the children according Nicole's wishes.

One more point, as much as you say how Simpson has trashed Nicole with these actions---what about the people who are willing to pay him? What does that say about us? What about the Goldmans' publishing the book? Didn't they have a right to do what they did? And do we have the right to call them the same names that they have called Simpson?

You can't have it both ways, IMO.I don't think it was Nicole's wish to be dead while the children were being raised.

You can't equate anyone else making money off Nicole's death the same way you do OJS. She carried his children and gave birth to them -- he should protect and cherish her memory for her children and for the respect he should have for a wife -- even an ex-wife.

[William Anthony]

Okay, you win. OJS was a penniless beggar with no hope of ever moving out of the cardboard box he lived in on the street.

Oh no, I am not saying that. I am saying that there may have been no way for Simpson to repay the award based on the expert's estimate.

[tv]

Oh no, I am not saying that. I am saying that there may have been no way for Simpson to repay the award based on the expert's estimate.
In the long run, it doesn't matter. It's all about inflicting misery on OJS. To a limited extent it worked.

[tv]

TV,

First, Simpson was aquitted in the criminal trial and has said from day one that he would not pay a dime for a crime he didn't commit. Since I truly believe that there is not one single poster on this board who would pay for a crime they didn't commit--especially after being aquitted in a criminal trial, I have no problems with this. And if you were rich and famous and the same thing happened to you, I would feel no differently.

Why do woman become whores? Is it because they love sex so much and they figure the should get paid for their pleasure? Yes, I do believe Simpson is a male *****, however, he is a male ***** who needs to support his family.

In Nicole's divorcee, she asked for a certain amount of money to keep Sydney and Justin in the same lifestyle they became accustomed to while their parents were married. IMO, he had a respondsibility to do that while Nicole was alive as well as after her death. To the best of my knowledge, Simpson has raised the children according Nicole's wishes.

One more point, as much as you say how Simpson has trashed Nicole with these actions---what about the people who are willing to pay him? What does that say about us? What about the Goldmans' publishing the book? Didn't they have a right to do what they did? And do we have the right to call them the same names that they have called Simpson?

You can't have it both ways, IMO.

Wow, even I never called OJ Simpson a *****. :eek:

[GreenIce]

From Petrocelli's book:

We had one final task. We were REQUIRED BY LAW to prove Simpson's financial condition, to enable the jury to decide how much punitive damages to assess against him.

TV,

I think you misunderstood my post. Petrocelli did his job and I have no problem with that. I truly believe that even if his witnesses came back to him to say that Simpson was only worth, $5.00, Petrocelli would have gone after $4.99 with the same vigor that he did with millions of dollars.

I don't believe the amount of money was ever the incentive of the Goldmans or Petrocelli, I do believe they look at the amount of money as a punishment.

IMO, there is a difference.

[tv]

TV,

I think you misunderstood my post. Petrocelli did his job and I have no problem with that. I truly believe that even if his witnesses came back to him to say that Simpson was only worth, $5.00, Petrocelli would have gone after $4.99 with the same vigor that he did with millions of dollars.

I don't believe the amount of money was ever the incentive of the Goldmans or Petrocelli, I do believe they look at the amount of money as a punishment.

IMO, there is a difference.

This is the post I was responding to. Aren't you saying Petrocelli and the Goldmans are liars? That's the way I interpreted your statement so I was providing the reason the financial status of Simpson mattered.

"If Petrocelli is telling the truth as well as the Goldmans' about why they brought this suit, they wouldn't care about his assets or his wealth. It wouldn't have made a difference to them if he was worth 5 bucks or 5 million."

[GreenIce]

I don't think it was Nicole's wish to be dead while the children were being raised.

You can't equate anyone else making money off Nicole's death the same way you do OJS. She carried his children and gave birth to them -- he should protect and cherish her memory for her children and for the respect he should have for a wife -- even an ex-wife.

TV,

The first sentence of you post was not necessary. I am sure that when one has children they do not have hopes to be murdered so they can find out if if the other parent keeps their wishes. I made my opinons based on the education Simpson gave them as well as the comments from Mr. and Mrs. Brown.

It was not possible for Simpson to protect his children's memory of their mother any more then was it possible for the Browns to do this. How could they protect them from Faye Resnick's books? How could they protect them from the friends who said that the Browns loved Simpson more then their own mother because he was rich? That they knew their mother was being beaten by their father but wanted her stay with him because they needed the money?

How long do you think it took Sydney and Justin to figure out that much of what was said about their mother was untrue? They lived in the same house with both of their parents. They know how their parents were to each other they knew how their parents truly felt about each other. Only Sydney and Justin know what Simpson has done or hasn't done to cherish their mother's memory. We don't.

[GreenIce]

This is the post I was responding to. Aren't you saying Petrocelli and the Goldmans are liars? That's the way I interpreted your statement so I was providing the reason the financial status of Simpson mattered.

"If Petrocelli is telling the truth as well as the Goldmans' about why they brought this suit, they wouldn't care about his assets or his wealth. It wouldn't have made a difference to them if he was worth 5 bucks or 5 million."

TV,

In re-reading the post, I can see where you misunderstood what I wrote. It does appear that I am calling them less then truthful about the money. My intent was to say that the amount of money didn't matter. I still stand by this.

[William Anthony]

In the long run, it doesn't matter. It's all about inflicting misery on OJS. To a limited extent it worked.

My original argument was that the award for punitive damages may have been excessive. However, after reviewing some links in regard to the California statute on punitive damage awards, I am of the opinion that the award was not excessive, because California law does not limit the amount of punitive awards based on the amount of compensatory damages. Therefore, although it may be required to show estimates of how much a defendant may earn in the future, it becomes a moot point, because it is also based on the reprehensibility of the conduct alleged and proven, meaning malice and oppression.

[weezer]

TV,

The first sentence of you post was not necessary. I am sure that when one has children they do not have hopes to be murdered so they can find out if if the other parent keeps their wishes. I made my opinons based on the education Simpson gave them as well as the comments from Mr. and Mrs. Brown.

It was not possible for Simpson to protect his children's memory of their mother any more then was it possible for the Browns to do this. How could they protect them from Faye Resnick's books? How could they protect them from the friends who said that the Browns loved Simpson more then their own mother because he was rich? That they knew their mother was being beaten by their father but wanted her stay with him because they needed the money?

How long do you think it took Sydney and Justin to figure out that much of what was said about their mother was untrue? They lived in the same house with both of their parents. They know how their parents were to each other they knew how their parents truly felt about each other. Only Sydney and Justin know what Simpson has done or hasn't done to cherish their mother's memory. We don't.

can't let this one pass: "How could they protect them from the friends who said that the Browns loved Simpson more then their own mother because he was rich? That they knew their mother was being beaten by their father but wanted her stay with him because they needed the money?. . ."

please post ANYTHING that supports this statement. you know, proof.

[tv]

TV,

The first sentence of you post was not necessary. I am sure that when one has children they do not have hopes to be murdered so they can find out if if the other parent keeps their wishes. I made my opinons based on the education Simpson gave them as well as the comments from Mr. and Mrs. Brown.

It was not possible for Simpson to protect his children's memory of their mother any more then was it possible for the Browns to do this. How could they protect them from Faye Resnick's books? How could they protect them from the friends who said that the Browns loved Simpson more then their own mother because he was rich? That they knew their mother was being beaten by their father but wanted her stay with him because they needed the money?

How long do you think it took Sydney and Justin to figure out that much of what was said about their mother was untrue? They lived in the same house with both of their parents. They know how their parents were to each other they knew how their parents truly felt about each other. Only Sydney and Justin know what Simpson has done or hasn't done to cherish their mother's memory. We don't.

It was entirely necessary. Do you know how it sounds when you say that OJS raised the children the way Nicole wanted them raised? Whose word are you taking for that? The word of her murderer?

[tv]

My original argument was that the award for punitive damages may have been excessive. However, after reviewing some links in regard to the California statute on punitive damage awards, I am of the opinion that the award was not excessive, because California law does not limit the amount of punitive awards based on the amount of compensatory damages. Therefore, although it may be required to show estimates of how much a defendant may earn in the future, it becomes a moot point, because it is also based on the reprehensibility of the conduct alleged and proven, meaning malice and oppression.

Thank you, William. A very informative post. :)

[martin II]

An expert forensic accountant, Neill Freeman, calculated OJ Simpson's worth at the time of the civil trial. He was worth $30 million, pre-tax. He also calculated how much money OJS earned up to that point as a result of killing two people:

Book (I Want to Tell You) $991,743
Video......................................303,500
Star Photos..............................433,693
Interviews.................................75,300
Autographs/Memorabilia............1,013,900

Total...................................$2,818.136

Who knows how much he's earned from the killings in the years since 1994? Even martin says he has off-shore accounts. I have no doubt.


The memorabilla expert testified that the market for ojs struff was dead.His testimony is supported as 14 years later fumong and beadsley had not found a buyer for any of it and found themselves trying to sell it to oj. hahaha

Tv interviews pay very little and no one was interested in buying a oj video unless he was telling people he killed Nicole and that was not going to happen.

$2,818,136 is a long way from $25,000,000 don't you think or are you saying the award should have been $2,818,136.00??

The award was excessive and given by a jury that wanted to be in the record as having given a historic award against oj simpson.

[martin II]

It was entirely necessary. Do you know how it sounds when you say that OJS raised the children the way Nicole wanted them raised? Whose word are you taking for that? The word of her murderer?

I am sure that Nicole if she could speak would be very pleased at how oj has raised her kids.These kids have turned out to be great young adults.No doubt about that.

[William Anthony]

Thank you, William. A very informative post. :)

You forgot, "as always",:).

[GreenIce]

can't let this one pass: "How could they protect them from the friends who said that the Browns loved Simpson more then their own mother because he was rich? That they knew their mother was being beaten by their father but wanted her stay with him because they needed the money?. . ."

please post ANYTHING that supports this statement. you know, proof.

TV,

I believe Kate has done research on this subject. We exchanged posts on this issue a few days ago. In fact, I made a post that only one "friend" has said this about Browns and that we don't know if this was the case. She responded that it was more then one friend. Pehaps she has other links.

The only person I know who has gone public with this is Faye Resnick. Even if this was true, why would Resnick say this? She didn't think it would Sydney and Justin to know this?

The Browns were not projected in the same glowing light the Goldmans' were. Alot of negative comments were aimed at the Browns and they were protrayed as being greedy rather then in mourning. There was a huge flap over Sydney and Justin having their picture taken at their mother's grave. Yet, Kim Goldman nor Mr. Goldman were subjected to the same criticisms.

[old_soul]

TV,

We see this case differently. We support our views with various resources as well as our hearts. The names and the tone of some of those posts were written only to incite even more heated exchanges--thus risking have the thread shut down.

You made a recent post about not caring if Nicole hit the maid because OJ was a callous SOB, in other words, you are blaming OJ for Nicole hitting the maid. You are now blaming me, Martin and William for this posters verbal abuse because we have different opinons on this case.

This poster nor for that matter any G poster has not supported any claims that any of the issues we have brought up are unreasonable or illogical. In fact, you never explain why it is not supported or unreasonable. Perhaps if you did, then we might come to understanding each other better. Not that we will agree but understanding is a clear possibility, IMO.

The poster can disagree with out resorting to that type of behavior. I also feel that when someone takes umbridge at post because it was meant to be hurtful and spiteful, and brings it to the poster's attention, I think it is reasonable to expect that person to apologize.

I have made the choice to ignore this poster. I will not respond to the poster because then I will be encouraging this behavior. It can only go down hill, IMO.

GreenIce, the motivation, the passion of which we post, comes from the heart, yes. But the Truth does not change. The truth of a violent relationship, and what we know now, not only about Nicole and OJ, but about domestic violence enables us to open our minds and understand the reactions of both, the abused and the abuser. We must learn that our outlook regarding domestic violence and abuse is an ongoing process, because if we don't, we are doomed to fail other women.

I will use Hedda Nussbaum as an example. A women who had a rather easy life when younger, she had hopes and dreams. Falling in love with a controlling man, at first, she was pleased by his 'attentiveness'. So was Nicole. As time went on, it became problematic, but she made excuses for him and herself. As did Nicole. He says: "Look how you made me mad, you didn't do what you were supposed to, what I told you I wanted. You are ugly. Look at how fat you are (Nicole). Constant belittlement, it is a wonder Nicole finally tried to get out of that cycle. It is much easier to give in, even though you may be the most unhappiest woman. What helped her was that she had $ to aid her. Nussbaum didn't ~ and she gave up, with no where to turn, so she felt. Nicole fought it ~ she didn't give in..hence the back and forth, though emotionally she was still trapped, until that last part of her life, she was trying.. and that took a lot of nerve.

I see Nussbaum often in my town. She shops organic. She counsels battered women. She is alive. I hated her with my heart, because she was still alive, and she allowed someone who did this to her, to do it to a mere baby, and it caused Lisa's horrifying death. Where was her self respect? I had to understand that it wasn't her fault, her actions were a result of the abuse ~ his fault. Understand abuse and the patterns of both the abused and the abuser..........

Nicole lived this mind game, and the abuse that went along with it. She reacted in ways that we know are part of a pattern. True to form, Oj reacted to it to, and IMO, the story is understandable..so was the outcome.

It is unreasonable and illogical when posts are made not understanding domestic abuse, the abuser, and in turn, excuses are made.

IMO, the pros should have brought in more about the abuse...to back it up. Since this was a murder trial, and not about abuse as the main focus...what's done was done.

Nicole hitting the maid...moot point. has nothing to do with anything really.
We really don't know what was said at that moment in time..that being said, hitting is wrong, but we are human, and frustration at that moment must have been at an all time high. She was not known to start brawls, or beat her children, or others..There is NO pattern to follow, you see?

[GreenIce]

It was entirely necessary. Do you know how it sounds when you say that OJS raised the children the way Nicole wanted them raised? Whose word are you taking for that? The word of her murderer?

Simpson, IMO, did not murder Nicole. However, I do not take his word alone on this.

[tv]

The memorabilla expert testified that the market for ojs struff was dead.His testimony is supported as 14 years later fumong and beadsley had not found a buyer for any of it and found themselves trying to sell it to oj. hahaha

Tv interviews pay very little and no one was interested in buying a oj video unless he was telling people he killed Nicole and that was not going to happen.

$2,818,136 is a long way from $25,000,000 don't you think or are you saying the award should have been $2,818,136.00??

The award was excessive and given by a jury that wanted to be in the record as having given a historic award against oj simpson.

Not according to William. :)

[tv]

Simpson, IMO, did not murder Nicole. However, I do not take his word alone on this.IMO, he did murder her. I depend on the evidence in the case to come to this conclusion.

[martin II]

TV,

The first sentence of you post was not necessary. I am sure that when one has children they do not have hopes to be murdered so they can find out if if the other parent keeps their wishes. I made my opinons based on the education Simpson gave them as well as the comments from Mr. and Mrs. Brown.

It was not possible for Simpson to protect his children's memory of their mother any more then was it possible for the Browns to do this. How could they protect them from Faye Resnick's books? How could they protect them from the friends who said that the Browns loved Simpson more then their own mother because he was rich? That they knew their mother was being beaten by their father but wanted her stay with him because they needed the money?

How long do you think it took Sydney and Justin to figure out that much of what was said about their mother was untrue? They lived in the same house with both of their parents. They know how their parents were to each other they knew how their parents truly felt about each other. Only Sydney and Justin know what Simpson has done or hasn't done to cherish their mother's memory. We don't.

I might add, how can oj protect them from mean spirited people posting all kinds of stuff about them on a public message board such as the children need mental health assistance.They must know their dad killed their mother.
There is no way these kids can be well adjusted.They don't need to be living with oj.Their life must be pure hell. etc

These people seem to have a death wish for these kids simply because they have hate for oj.It is like they wish the above was true just to blame oj for all of it.

Just suppose one of these kids were to read some of this stuff on this forum.
It would not be a pleasant read for them.

Some people have no limits as to how far they will go to satisfy their hate.imo

[William Anthony]

I think that there is a difference between being passionate and being offensive. With that said, I think the proper steps have been taken to correct the actions and that we should go forward hoping that nothing of the sort occurs in the future. However, if it should happen again, I think we all know the proper course of action to take.

[tv]

You forgot, "as always",:).
I'm very rarely forgetful. :)

[tv]

I think that there is a difference between being passionate and being offensive. With that said, I think the proper steps have been taken to correct the actions and that we should go forward hoping that nothing of the sort occurs in the future. However, if it should happen again, I think we all know the proper course of action to take.
William, I don't want to dredge up ancient history but those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

[tv]

I might add, how can oj protect them from mean spirited people posting all kinds of stuff about them on a public message board such as the children need mental health assistance.They must know their dad killed their mother.
There is no way these kids can be well adjusted.They don't need to be living with oj.Their life must be pure hell. etc

These people seem to have a death wish for these kids simply because they have hate for oj.It is like they wish the above was true just to blame oj for all of it.

Just suppose one of these kids were to read some of this stuff on this forum.
It would not be a pleasant read for them.

Some people have no limits as to how far they will go to satisfy their hate.imo
Who are these mean-spirited people that have wished death on the children of OJ Simpson? :eek:

[martin II]

Not according to William. :)

I think William is speaking about what was allowed by law.I am speaking of what was fair or possible to be paid.If i am wrong Will will inform me.In that respect the jury could have just made it $100,000,000 and felt even better.
I believe you would not have complained.

[William Anthony]

Not according to William. :)

If the only basis of the award was Simpson's future earnings, then it would be excessive to me. I agree that the jury wanted to send a message about Simpson and I think, although the claim was that the criminal trial verdict was not to play a part in the trial, the bell was repeatedly ringing in the jurors ears. With all that said, the award was not excessive, according to my understanding of the California law. I think we can all agree that everything that is legal is not always fair.

[tv]

GreenIce, the motivation, the passion of which we post, comes from the heart, yes. But the Truth does not change. The truth of a violent relationship, and what we know now, not only about Nicole and OJ, but about domestic violence enables us to open our minds and understand the reactions of both, the abused and the abuser. We must learn that our outlook regarding domestic violence and abuse is an ongoing process, because if we don't, we are doomed to fail other women.

I will use Hedda Nussbaum as an example. A women who had a rather easy life when younger, she had hopes and dreams. Falling in love with a controlling man, at first, she was pleased by his 'attentiveness'. So was Nicole. As time went on, it became problematic, but she made excuses for him and herself. As did Nicole. He says: "Look how you made me mad, you didn't do what you were supposed to, what I told you I wanted. You are ugly. Look at how fat you are (Nicole). Constant belittlement, it is a wonder Nicole finally tried to get out of that cycle. It is much easier to give in, even though you may be the most unhappiest woman. What helped her was that she had $ to aid her. Nussbaum didn't ~ and she gave up, with no where to turn, so she felt. Nicole fought it ~ she didn't give in..hence the back and forth, though emotionally she was still trapped, until that last part of her life, she was trying.. and that took a lot of nerve.

I see Nussbaum often in my town. She shops organic. She counsels battered women. She is alive. I hated her with my heart, because she was still alive, and she allowed someone who did this to her, to do it to a mere baby, and it caused Lisa's horrifying death. Where was her self respect? I had to understand that it wasn't her fault, her actions were a result of the abuse ~ his fault. Understand abuse and the patterns of both the abused and the abuser..........

Nicole lived this mind game, and the abuse that went along with it. She reacted in ways that we know are part of a pattern. True to form, Oj reacted to it to, and IMO, the story is understandable..so was the outcome.

It is unreasonable and illogical when posts are made not understanding domestic abuse, the abuser, and in turn, excuses are made.

IMO, the pros should have brought in more about the abuse...to back it up. Since this was a murder trial, and not about abuse as the main focus...what's done was done.

Nicole hitting the maid...moot point. has nothing to do with anything really.
We really don't know what was said at that moment in time..that being said, hitting is wrong, but we are human, and frustration at that moment must have been at an all time high. She was not known to start brawls, or beat her children, or others..There is NO pattern to follow, you see?

Thanks, old_soul. You made several great points. :beer:

[William Anthony]

I think William is speaking about what was allowed by law.I am speaking of what was fair or possible to be paid.If i am wrong Will will inform me.In that respect the jury could have just made it $100,000,000 and felt even better.
I believe you would not have complained.

Wow, we posted at almost the same time and you said exactly what was my point. Great minds think alike.:)

[martin II]

Who are these mean-spirited people that have wished death on the children of OJ Simpson? :eek:

tv
You have been around long enough to have read some of these mean spirited accusation about the kids.

[tv]

If the only basis of the award was Simpson's future earnings, then it would be excessive to me. I agree that the jury wanted to send a message about Simpson and I think, although the claim was that the criminal trial verdict was not to play a part in the trial, the bell was repeatedly ringing in the jurors ears. With all that said, the award was not excessive, according to my understanding of the California law. I think we can all agree that everything that is legal is not always fair.

Now you went and ruined that great post. :(

[tv]

tv
You have been around long enough to have read some of these mean spirited accusation about the kids.
I have never seen anyone wish the children were dead. The only criticism I've seen of the kids is about the book that they approved for their father to write about murdering Nicole.

[tv]

Wow, we posted at almost the same time and you said exactly what was my point. Great minds think alike.:)It has to hurt and $100,000 wouldn't be painful enough.

[William Anthony]

William, I don't want to dredge up ancient history but those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

If you don't want to bring it up, then you shouldn't. However, since you did let me take this opportunity to say, I think that, if any poster or moderator reviews the posts and archives, they will find that, although I live in a glass house, the house was built and sold to me by a corporation that builds windows so that they could hurl stones, causing me to replace those windows, gaining an unjust enrichment to themselves.

[GreenIce]

GreenIce, the motivation, the passion of which we post, comes from the heart, yes. But the Truth does not change. The truth of a violent relationship, and what we know now, not only about Nicole and OJ, but about domestic violence enables us to open our minds and understand the reactions of both, the abused and the abuser. We must learn that our outlook regarding domestic violence and abuse is an ongoing process, because if we don't, we are doomed to fail other women.

I will use Hedda Nussbaum as an example. A women who had a rather easy life when younger, she had hopes and dreams. Falling in love with a controlling man, at first, she was pleased by his 'attentiveness'. So was Nicole. As time went on, it became problematic, but she made excuses for him and herself. As did Nicole. He says: "Look how you made me mad, you didn't do what you were supposed to, what I told you I wanted. You are ugly. Look at how fat you are (Nicole). Constant belittlement, it is a wonder Nicole finally tried to get out of that cycle. It is much easier to give in, even though you may be the most unhappiest woman. What helped her was that she had $ to aid her. Nussbaum didn't ~ and she gave up, with no where to turn, so she felt. Nicole fought it ~ she didn't give in..hence the back and forth, though emotionally she was still trapped, until that last part of her life, she was trying.. and that took a lot of nerve.

I see Nussbaum often in my town. She shops organic. She counsels battered women. She is alive. I hated her with my heart, because she was still alive, and she allowed someone who did this to her, to do it to a mere baby, and it caused Lisa's horrifying death. Where was her self respect? I had to understand that it wasn't her fault, her actions were a result of the abuse ~ his fault. Understand abuse and the patterns of both the abused and the abuser..........

Nicole lived this mind game, and the abuse that went along with it. She reacted in ways that we know are part of a pattern. True to form, Oj reacted to it to, and IMO, the story is understandable..so was the outcome.

It is unreasonable and illogical when posts are made not understanding domestic abuse, the abuser, and in turn, excuses are made.

IMO, the pros should have brought in more about the abuse...to back it up. Since this was a murder trial, and not about abuse as the main focus...what's done was done.

Nicole hitting the maid...moot point. has nothing to do with anything really.
We really don't know what was said at that moment in time..that being said, hitting is wrong, but we are human, and frustration at that moment must have been at an all time high. She was not known to start brawls, or beat her children, or others..There is NO pattern to follow, you see?

Old Soul,

This is one of the most powerful and eloquent posts I have read.

I do disagree with your comment about Nicole hitting the maid being a moot point. Nicole knew what she was doing and she knew it was wrong and she said so herself. She did not blame Simpson for her actions. She "manned up". If you go back and read some of the posts on this, you will see that, IMO, certain posters have done the exact same thing as they have accused me off. Bottom line, no matter what Nicole did, it was all Simpson's fault, he made her do it. That is not accurate nor do I believe that is fair.

I also agree with you that the truth does not change and in this case, the LAPD, DA's and her friends and family did nothing to help Nicole while she was alive and if Simpson is the killer, they all have blood on their hands, IMO, because they never put Nicole or her children first in regards to this issue.

I understand your feelings about Hedda N. I felt the same way and I remember one day yelling at her and blaming her for Lisa's death and you know what I was yelling, "Isn't the mother must suppose to take the punch for the kid?!!!" It took a lot of evidence to convince me that his woman was a complete bowl of jello in this horrific situation. I don't believe she could have defended either child. I do believe that the battered woman syndrome is real and it will always be misundestood unless you have gone through it, IMO.

[William Anthony]

Now you went and ruined that great post. :(

My fair lady,

Truth sometimes is met with disdain-a Williamism. :)

[William Anthony]

It has to hurt and $100,000 wouldn't be painful enough.

That is my understanding of punitive.:)

[tv]

My fair lady,

Truth sometimes is met with disdain-a Williamism. :)How true -- I read so much disdain in the NG's posts.

[tv]

That is my understanding of punitive.:)Good.

[martin II]

GreenIce, the motivation, the passion of which we post, comes from the heart, yes. But the Truth does not change. The truth of a violent relationship, and what we know now, not only about Nicole and OJ, but about domestic violence enables us to open our minds and understand the reactions of both, the abused and the abuser. We must learn that our outlook regarding domestic violence and abuse is an ongoing process, because if we don't, we are doomed to fail other women.

I will use Hedda Nussbaum as an example. A women who had a rather easy life when younger, she had hopes and dreams. Falling in love with a controlling man, at first, she was pleased by his 'attentiveness'. So was Nicole. As time went on, it became problematic, but she made excuses for him and herself. As did Nicole. He says: "Look how you made me mad, you didn't do what you were supposed to, what I told you I wanted. You are ugly. Look at how fat you are (Nicole). Constant belittlement, it is a wonder Nicole finally tried to get out of that cycle. It is much easier to give in, even though you may be the most unhappiest woman. What helped her was that she had $ to aid her. Nussbaum didn't ~ and she gave up, with no where to turn, so she felt. Nicole fought it ~ she didn't give in..hence the back and forth, though emotionally she was still trapped, until that last part of her life, she was trying.. and that took a lot of nerve.

I see Nussbaum often in my town. She shops organic. She counsels battered women. She is alive. I hated her with my heart, because she was still alive, and she allowed someone who did this to her, to do it to a mere baby, and it caused Lisa's horrifying death. Where was her self respect? I had to understand that it wasn't her fault, her actions were a result of the abuse ~ his fault. Understand abuse and the patterns of both the abused and the abuser..........

Nicole lived this mind game, and the abuse that went along with it. She reacted in ways that we know are part of a pattern. True to form, Oj reacted to it to, and IMO, the story is understandable..so was the outcome.

It is unreasonable and illogical when posts are made not understanding domestic abuse, the abuser, and in turn, excuses are made.

IMO, the pros should have brought in more about the abuse...to back it up. Since this was a murder trial, and not about abuse as the main focus...what's done was done.

Nicole hitting the maid...moot point. has nothing to do with anything really.
We really don't know what was said at that moment in time..that being said, hitting is wrong, but we are human, and frustration at that moment must have been at an all time high. She was not known to start brawls, or beat her children, or others..There is NO pattern to follow, you see?

I think that all that post here are informed of how DV happens and the reasons behind it.I don't think that there is any one person that is more informed than any other.

Nicole was known as being able to give as much as she got. The earing situation was caused and maintrained by Nicole because she did not get what she thought she was suppose to get.Some diamond earings.When she asked oj for the earings and he said i don't have any earings for you, she could have simply said ok.But she didn't. Nicole found fault with the maids work although she had worked for oj for some time and there had never such a dissagreement. It is not a moot point when Nicole slapped this woman and knocked her down any more than it is a moot ponit when oj hit her and knocked her down. imo

[tv]

If you don't want to bring it up, then you shouldn't. However, since you did let me take this opportunity to say, I think that, if any poster or moderator reviews the posts and archives, they will find that, although I live in a glass house, the house was built and sold to me by a corporation that builds windows so that they could hurl stones, causing me to replace those windows, gaining an unjust enrichment to themselves.

I'll translate for everyone -- William has made inappropriate comments in the past but feels justified. Accurate, William? ;)

[GreenIce]

IMO, he did murder her. I depend on the evidence in the case to come to this conclusion.

TV,

As an American citzen and as a human being, you have every right to believe your conclusion is correct. However, please remember that it is very possible that Sydney and Justice depended on the exact same evidence that proves their father is innocent. IMO.

[martin II]

It has to hurt and $100,000 wouldn't be painful enough.

If you are referring to the number i postred it was $100,000,000

[William Anthony]

I'll translate for everyone -- William has made inappropriate comments in the past but feels justified. Accurate, William? ;)

Let me give you another saying, while not a Williamism, it is one that I have found to serve me well throughout life-it is a poor dog that won't wag its own tail.;)

[tv]

TV,

As an American citzen and as a human being, you have every right to believe your conclusion is correct. However, please remember that it is very possible that Sydney and Justice depended on the exact same evidence that proves their father is innocent. IMO.Nothing proves their father is innocent.

[William Anthony]

How true -- I read so much disdain in the NG's posts.

An intentional misstatement is disdained a hundred times more than the truth and to label Simpson as a murderer when he was found not guilty is an intentional misstatement-a Williamism.:)

[tv]

If you are referring to the number i postred it was $100,000,000
$100,000,000 won't bring back Ron but it might be painful enough if he had to pay one red cent which of course he never has.

[martin II]

I have never seen anyone wish the children were dead. The only criticism I've seen of the kids is about the book that they approved for their father to write about murdering Nicole.

The children have more information about nicole and oj than you or me.They are also more informed about the reason for the book and their approval of it tells me that they agree with ojs words. I am sure that they realized the financial advantage oj was trying to give them as he had not been able to work and earn at the level he did before Nicole was killed by someone.

It is also possible that they were aware of how many jug heads and fools had written books and enjoyed new wealth and status on the back of their dad and their mothers death. So it goes that there was no problem for their dad to tell his story on his own terms.

[tv]

An intentional misstatement is disdained a hundred times more than the truth and to label Simpson as a murderer when he was found not guilty is an intentional misstatement-a Williamism.:)He was found not guilty -- not innocent.

[GreenIce]

I'll translate for everyone -- William has made inappropriate comments in the past but feels justified. Accurate, William? ;)

TV,

We have all lived in glass houses and threw stones. However, for most people, it only takes a few bricks through your house before you realize that this is not a way to communicate. It only takes a few bricks to realize that you are not the only one living in your glass house and if you continue to throw them, they will be thrown back and it is only a matter time before someone gets hurt.

The point is, it really doesn't matter when you started throwing stones, it only matters when you stopped throwing them. Until you stop throwing them, you can't know the true extent of the damage to your house. And if you can't know the true extent of the damage to your own house, can you know the true extent of the damage to the other house?

[tv]

The children have more information about nicole and oj than you or me.They are also more informed about the reason for the book and their approval of it tells me that they agree with ojs words. I am sure that they realized the financial advantage oj was trying to give them as he had not been able to work and earn at the level he did before Nicole was killed by someone.

It is also possible that they were aware of how many jug heads and fools had written books and enjoyed new wealth and status on the back of their dad and their mothers death. So it goes that there was no problem for their dad to tell his story on his own terms.

They agree with OJ's words? Interesting.

[William Anthony]

He was found not guilty -- not innocent.

Exactly, which means he can never be proven to be a murderer and, therefore, to label him as one is an intentional misstatement. It is one thing to say I believe he is a murder and quite another to say he is a murderer. :)

[martin II]

$100,000,000 won't bring back Ron but it might be painful enough if he had to pay one red cent which of course he never has.

I think fred has been given about $300,000--$400,000 and you can add about $24,000.00 from the book the judge gave him but he had to split that with his daughter. (bad book deal)

Fred knows as well as you know nothing will bring his son back. so his going after the money was/is for the money regardless of what he says from time to time.

[tv]

Let me give you another saying, while not a Williamism, it is one that I have found to serve me well throughout life-it is a poor dog that won't wag its own tail.;)I think most people here would agree you're quite the tail wagger.

[weezer]

They agree with OJ's words? Interesting.

maybe they understood that it was their dad's way of confessing. interesting.

[GreenIce]

Nothing proves their father is innocent.

TV,

I have no problem with your feelings on this, but to be fair, the Simpson children have the same right that you do to evaluate the evidence, to evaluate their parents relationship and to come to their own conclusions.

Sydney knows the events that night. She knows what she heard and what she saw. I bet she even knows what time she went to bed that night. Good possibility she knows who's hat that is. I bet she even knows if the blood drops were there before that night.

[weezer]

I think fred has been given about $300,000--$400,000 and you can add about $24,000.00 from the book the judge gave him but he had to split that with his daughter. (bad book deal)

Fred knows as well as you know nothing will bring his son back. so his going after the money was/is for the money regardless of what he says from time to time.

and orenthal is in prison. guess you really can't take it with you.

[William Anthony]

TV,

We have all lived in glass houses and threw stones. However, for most people, it only takes a few bricks through your house before you realize that this is not a way to communicate. It only takes a few bricks to realize that you are not the only one living in your glass house and if you continue to throw them, they will be thrown back and it is only a matter time before someone gets hurt.

The point is, it really doesn't matter when you started throwing stones, it only matters when you stopped throwing them. Until you stop throwing them, you can't know the true extent of the damage to your house. And if you can't know the true extent of the damage to your own house, can you know the true extent of the damage to the other house?

To those that have ears, let them hear.:)

[tv]

I think fred has been given about $300,000--$400,000 and you can add about $24,000.00 from the book the judge gave him but he had to split that with his daughter. (bad book deal)

Fred knows as well as you know nothing will bring his son back. so his going after the money was/is for the money regardless of what he says from time to time.
It was to punish his son's murderer. No matter what you say I think you understand this.

[martin II]

They agree with OJ's words? Interesting.

tv
you have never been in a position to write a book about ojs and nicoles relationship.oJ has.

it is not his fault that his words did not come out as you think you know they should have. But you were in deer country when they were togeather.hahaha

[William Anthony]

I think most people here would agree you're quite the tail wagger.

Thank you. A fair exchange isn't a robbery and an even swap isn't a swindle. :)

[GreenIce]

I think fred has been given about $300,000--$400,000 and you can add about $24,000.00 from the book the judge gave him but he had to split that with his daughter. (bad book deal)

Fred knows as well as you know nothing will bring his son back. so his going after the money was/is for the money regardless of what he says from time to time.

Martin,

Did you read the book? I have not but from what have I heard is that the book is not at all accurate of the actual details. I am under the impression that liberties were taken with evidence even though that was not how the evidence was protrayed in the trial.

[tv]

TV,

I have no problem with your feelings on this, but to be fair, the Simpson children have the same right that you do to evaluate the evidence, to evaluate their parents relationship and to come to their own conclusions.

Sydney knows the events that night. She knows what she heard and what she saw. I bet she even knows what time she went to bed that night. Good possibility she knows who's hat that is. I bet she even knows if the blood drops were there before that night.

Good heavens, when did I ever say the children didn't have a right to their opinion? You really have to stop twisting everything that I post. That's William's job.

[tv]

Thank you. A fair exchange isn't a robbery and an even swap isn't a swindle. :)

"It is a cliche that most cliches are true, but then like most cliches, that cliche is untrue” ~~ Stephen Fry

[tv]

tv
you have never been in a position to write a book about ojs and nicoles relationship.oJ has.

it is not his fault that his words did not come out as you think you know they should have. But you were in deer country when they were togeather.hahaha

You got something against deer country? :tongue:

[martin II]

It was to punish his son's murderer. No matter what you say I think you understand this.

That is the line that is most likely to keep you sending sympathy his way and tunning into his tv interviews. But when he sends his lawyers into court looking for some oj tee shirts and old footballs so they can try to sell them for money it is not about hurting anyone. It is about money honey. hahaha

But that is his right.

[William Anthony]

Good heavens, when did I ever say the children didn't have a right to their opinion? You really have to stop twisting everything that I post. That's William's job.

My fair lady,

William does not work for free as he has been too well raised. If you feel that I have been working for you, then will you please send the check?:)

[martin II]

You got something against deer country? :tongue:

Nothing against deer or deer country.I love PA ,NY and NJ.
I just don't shoot them.

[old_soul]

I think that all that post here are informed of how DV happens and the reasons behind it.I don't think that there is any one person that is more informed than any other.

Nicole was known as being able to give as much as she got. The earing situation was caused and maintrained by Nicole because she did not get what she thought she was suppose to get.Some diamond earings.When she asked oj for the earings and he said i don't have any earings for you, she could have simply said ok.But she didn't. Nicole found fault with the maids work although she had worked for oj for some time and there had never such a dissagreement. It is not a moot point when Nicole slapped this woman and knocked her down any more than it is a moot ponit when oj hit her and knocked her down. imo

Martin, at this point, I probably shouldn't even answer you. You have me hopping mad, and I know TV, Kate and many others will have their own say in this, ok... Once again, this is a very offensive statement.

Your comment "Nicole was known...." is so damn infuriating, Martin, and I know you are much smater than that. Explain to me what exactly you mean by this! All it makes me think of is that in certain communities it is accepted as normal practice for a woman to have to try to defend herself so this is what she does. Is this your mentality?

The maid is a moot point. Do we really know what transpired in any way shape or form between the two women? No. Does it matter, in relation to the murders? No. Are you comparing spousal abuse to an argument between 2 women that we really know only so much about?

Now.................have you even held someone in your arms who is black and blue from a beating by someone who 'loves her"?! Have you even sat down with someone who lost a baby because she was kicked in the stomach while preganant by someone "who loves" her?! Have you ever seen a child up front and close, beaten by one of these same perps, who nonetheless says he "loves her"?!

NO? Then don't tell me "you think all posters here know...blah blah blah".... and don't tell me "you don't think there is any one person here who is more informed than any other". You know not of what you speak, Martin. I have seen this. I have held someone.

Stop comparing the two incidences, and stop making comments that this woman 'gave as good as she got'. Think.

Very sad, that you just don't get it....and so sad that Nicole's children have invisible scars from their dysfunctional home, to their mothers murder. Well adjusted and happy is a pipe dream for those in denial.

[William Anthony]

"It is a cliche that most cliches are true, but then like most cliches, that cliche is untrue” ~~ Stephen Fry

So you believe that an unfair exchange is not a robbery and an even swap isn't a swindle and, therefore, it is untrue that America wasn't stolen from Native Americans, correct?:)

[martin II]

Good heavens, when did I ever say the children didn't have a right to their opinion? You really have to stop twisting everything that I post. That's William's job.

no one claimed you said that.Clean your glasses.

[Kate Sachel]

TV,

Kate is not correct on this. If you google Marc Klaas name with lie detector test, you come up with quite a few transcripts on this. In one transcripts, I believe it was with Paula Zahn, he says that he does not believe in them, or had no faith in them. He talks about how hard it was for him to do this and talked about the FBI agent who explained to him how it worked.

On the Larry King Live Show, he talks about how frightening it is to take that test. MK never voluneetered to take the test.

I did not find the transcript that had both JW and MK on it. However, there are enough transcripts to support what I posted was true.

BTW, no police agency can force anyone to take the test, however, the "pressure" they apply could never be called "volunteering". We all know what happens when some refuses to take one. IMO.

One last thing, Marc Klaas the real reason or how he was able to take the test is that he had to put his daugther's needs above his own. IMO, that is saying he was upset about asked to take the test and would have refused had it not been for his daughter and the investigation. He knew the sooner they took the focus off of him and his family, the better.

Kate is correct on this and her information can be found in the book on the Polly Klaas abduction and murder, the Nancy Grace interview in which Marc Klaas appeared regarding missing children's cases, the Larry King Live show in which Marc Klaas and John Walsh appeared in speaking reagrding the Caylee Anthony case, and in an interview with law enforcement who worked on the Polly Klaas case in the 2005 Nancy Grace show also featuring defense attorney Mark Geragos.

Kate

[tv]

Nothing against deer or deer country.I love PA ,NY and NJ.
I just don't shoot them.
I don't shoot them either but I do let them eat the apples off my trees.

[GreenIce]

Good heavens, when did I ever say the children didn't have a right to their opinion? You really have to stop twisting everything that I post. That's William's job.

TV,

With your statement: "Nothing proves their father is innocent." is taking away their right to view the exact same evidence and come to a different conclusion. That may not be your intent but to me, you have pretty much decided that there is only way to view the evidence and you have come to the conclusion that he is guilty.


Here is a truth to ponder, if Sydney and Justin participated in the book just for greed, for the big pay day---they would have made a fortune had they did a book saying their father did it. They would have made so much money, their decendents would never have to get a real job until the year 4000, IMO.

[tv]

no one claimed you said that.Clean your glasses.

Yes she did. Is there some reason you think GreenIce can't respond to me on her own?

[martin II]

Martin, at this point, I probably shouldn't even answer you. You have me hopping mad, and I know TV, Kate and many others will have their own say in this, ok... Once again, this is a very offensive statement.

Your comment "Nicole was known...." is so damn infuriating, Martin, and I know you are much smater than that. Explain to me what exactly you mean by this! All it makes me think of is that in certain communities it is accepted as normal practice for a woman to have to try to defend herself so this is what she does. Is this your mentality?

The maid is a moot point. Do we really know what transpired in any way shape or form between the two women? No. Does it matter, in relation to the murders? No. Are you comparing spousal abuse to an argument between 2 women that we really know only so much about?

Now.................have you even held someone in your arms who is black and blue from a beating by someone who 'loves her"?! Have you even sat down with someone who lost a baby because she was kicked in the stomach while preganant by someone "who loves" her?! Have you ever seen a child up front and close, beaten by one of these same perps, who nonetheless says he "loves her"?!

NO? Then don't tell me "you think all posters here know...blah blah blah".... and don't tell me "you don't think there is any one person here who is more informed than any other". You know not of what you speak, Martin. I have seen this. I have held someone.

Stop comparing the two incidences, and stop making comments that this woman 'gave as good as she got'. Think.

Very sad, that you just don't get it....and so sad that Nicole's children have invisible scars from their dysfunctional home, to their mothers murder. Well adjusted and happy is a pipe dream for those in denial.

You have posted the kind of mean spirited post about the kids that i was talking to tv about.

[tv]

TV,

With your statement: "Nothing proves their father is innocent." is taking away their right to view the exact same evidence and come to a different conclusion. That may not be your intent but to me, you have pretty much decided that there is only way to view the evidence and you have come to the conclusion that he is guilty.


Here is a truth to ponder, if Sydney and Justin participated in the book just for greed, for the big pay day---they would have made a fortune had they did a book saying their father did it. They would have made so much money, their decendents would never have to get a real job until the year 4000, IMO.

I haven't taken away any rights from anyone least of all OJ Simpson's children. How could I possibly do that?

[GreenIce]

Martin, at this point, I probably shouldn't even answer you. You have me hopping mad, and I know TV, Kate and many others will have their own say in this, ok... Once again, this is a very offensive statement.

Your comment "Nicole was known...." is so damn infuriating, Martin, and I know you are much smater than that. Explain to me what exactly you mean by this! All it makes me think of is that in certain communities it is accepted as normal practice for a woman to have to try to defend herself so this is what she does. Is this your mentality?

The maid is a moot point. Do we really know what transpired in any way shape or form between the two women? No. Does it matter, in relation to the murders? No. Are you comparing spousal abuse to an argument between 2 women that we really know only so much about?

Now.................have you even held someone in your arms who is black and blue from a beating by someone who 'loves her"?! Have you even sat down with someone who lost a baby because she was kicked in the stomach while preganant by someone "who loves" her?! Have you ever seen a child up front and close, beaten by one of these same perps, who nonetheless says he "loves her"?!

NO? Then don't tell me "you think all posters here know...blah blah blah".... and don't tell me "you don't think there is any one person here who is more informed than any other". You know not of what you speak, Martin. I have seen this. I have held someone.

Stop comparing the two incidences, and stop making comments that this woman 'gave as good as she got'. Think.

Very sad, that you just don't get it....and so sad that Nicole's children have invisible scars from their dysfunctional home, to their mothers murder. Well adjusted and happy is a pipe dream for those in denial.

Old Soul,

Did you read Marcia Clark's book? In it she does make that comment that "she gave as good as she got". It really startled me that she wrote that. I wonder if many woman may use these terms to make it seem like they weren't weak. Basically, yeah, he slapped me with his hand, but I took a baseball bat to his knees!


I would be interested to hear what a DV expert would say on this. Why do people use these terms when they are describing physical altercations in their life? No war---just asking your opinon.

Old Soul, there may have been people in the Simpson circle who did believe this. Not that is right, just some people believe that if you hit, then you shouldn't be surprised when you are hit back. If you push, don't be surprised to be pushed, etc.

[martin II]

Yes she did. Is there some reason you think GreenIce can't respond to me on her own?

GI is quite capable of responding to you. i am sure of that. i just responded as i am about to make a run and wanted you to klnow what i though about your post. I will return shortly.

[tv]

So you believe that an unfair exchange is not a robbery and an even swap isn't a swindle and, therefore, it is untrue that America wasn't stolen from Native Americans, correct?:)

Oh, for heaven's sake, William.

[Kate Sachel]

TV,

Kate is not correct on this. If you google Marc Klaas name with lie detector test, you come up with quite a few transcripts on this. In one transcripts, I believe it was with Paula Zahn, he says that he does not believe in them, or had no faith in them. He talks about how hard it was for him to do this and talked about the FBI agent who explained to him how it worked.

On the Larry King Live Show, he talks about how frightening it is to take that test. MK never voluneetered to take the test.

I did not find the transcript that had both JW and MK on it. However, there are enough transcripts to support what I posted was true.

BTW, no police agency can force anyone to take the test, however, the "pressure" they apply could never be called "volunteering". We all know what happens when some refuses to take one. IMO.

One last thing, Marc Klaas the real reason or how he was able to take the test is that he had to put his daugther's needs above his own. IMO, that is saying he was upset about asked to take the test and would have refused had it not been for his daughter and the investigation. He knew the sooner they took the focus off of him and his family, the better.

I did what you mentioned and googled Marc Klaas and lie detector test. Everything that has come up on pages 01-10 for me support that Marc Klaas volunteered, and had no problems with the lie detector test. You previously posted that he was very angry, I can find no information via google to support that statement.

Perhaps I am missing the one transcript you mention with Paula Zahn, and you can link me to it?

Kate

[tv]

My fair lady,

William does not work for free as he has been too well raised. If you feel that I have been working for you, then will you please send the check?:)

Did I say it was work? I doubt you consider it a chore when you get so much pleasure from twisting my words.

[old_soul]

Sydney and Justin to this very day, have done the same thing that any family involved in abuse does..they keep quiet. The PATTERN , Hello, just as Nicole and millons of other women have done, is to not tell, not talk about it.
It's embarrassing. It gives people reason to talk down about 'you'. It makes you feel like less of a person than you already feel. He'll deny it anyway, just as Nicole acknowledged that in her letter to OJ, about the lies that she fell or whatever, and he had hit her and she had the bruises...remember that?....Just keep quiet about it. This is what abused people do. It also means admitting to oneself that you failed, and can not handle what you thought you could. Failure in oneself.

Does anyone really not believe that Sydney, at one time or another, Googled this, to answer some of her own unanswered questions?

[GreenIce]

I did what you mentioned and googled Marc Klaas and lie detector test. Everything that has come up on pages 01-10 for me support that Marc Klaas volunteered, and had no problems with the lie detector test. You previously posted that he was very angry, I can find no information via google to support that statement.

Perhaps I am missing the one transcript you mention with Paula Zahn, and you can link me to it?

Kate

Yes, I will try to find it.

Kate,

Wouldn't you find odd if a parent didn't get angry if they were asked to take a lie detector test about their missing-murdered child? I am not saying they would refuse to take one, but doesn't it seem that anger would be a normal first reaction?

[William Anthony]

Oh, for heaven's sake, William.

Just seeking a clarification on your post, that's all, because the cliche is that the Indians' lands were stolen through robbery and swindles.

[Kate Sachel]

TV,

Perhaps you are right, I am living in a fantasy world. But you see, in my world, I do not want to believe that the LAPD responded 8 times to DV calls regarding the Simpsons. I don't want to believe that Nicole was not worthy enough for any of them to make an initial report. I don't want to believe they again found Nicole not worthy enough when the call out was issued to the LAPD, if they had any knowledge or responded to any DV calls after the 1989 incident. I don't want to believe that even after Nicole was murdered these same cops again did not feel that Nicole was worth their time or effort to testify.

I don't want to believe that the Browns knew that with every punch, kick, whatever, had their name on it. They knew the brutalilty of the situation and chose the color of money rather then black and blue marks on their daughter.

I don't want to believe that Nicole's "friends" knew about this and they still opted to participate with Nicole's quest to get back with Simpson.

I don't want to believe that Nicole did feel that her family loved Simpson more then her so that is why she stayed in the relationship.

I don't want to believe that these same friends, who say Nicole felt this way about her family never went to her family to say, 'hey, Nicole is getting beat and you know what, every bruise has your name on it! She is staying in this relationship because she doesn't feel she has a family who will support her emotionally.

So if I live in a fantasy world on this issue, it is only because I want to believe that someone would have helped her. Someone would have done everything they could to stop this. I want to believe that the LAPD were not more concerned with their jobs or careers and at least one of them, beside MF, to testify.

We heard what Nicole said in an interview with the police that she did not know was being recording. We know that in her divorce papers she also said that it never happened again. When Nicole wrote in her diaries was not written under the penality of perjury. We do not know what Nicole would have testified to while under oath.

TV, the point about Nicole hitting the maid is that she became very, very angry with another human being and she did something that she knew was wrong but hit the maid anyway. She lost control, she was a human being.

When Nicole hit the maid, she was not living at Rockingham. Michelle worked for Simpson, not Nicole. Apparently Nicole had issues with the hired help because didn't Simpson write her a letter about using his housekeep as her babysitter? Didn't he say that he had no problem with the kids being left at Rockingham if he, Arnelle or Jason was home? Didn't he also say that Rockingham was their home as well?

You have accused me of trivializing (sp?) the abuse in the relationship, however, if you accuse me of, then you have to accuse the LAPD, the DA's, The Browns' and last but not least, her so called "friends". IMO.

It would be lovely to live in a world where we could be assured that family and friends help and support those that they are supposed to love. But the reality is that your ideal is fantasy. I have toured battered women's shelters in now eight states and the majority of these women are there because they had no where else to turn. So many of these women have stories to tell that would offend any decent human being's core morals and beliefs regarding family. So many of them had friends and family that turned a blind eye, or that let them simply go it alone because they felt that they were getting what they asked for by not leaving in the first place. Many of them just were not believed because their husband's were wealthy, upstanding members of their community.

It's sad, but it is real. Up until 1993 doctors in hospitals were not even required to report obvious signs of domestic violence. It just was not acknowledged for a very long period of timing as being something other than a private, family affair. Unfortunately, many still view it as such.

Kate

[martin II]

Old Soul,

Did you read Marcia Clark's book? In it she does make that comment that "she gave as good as she got". It really startled me that she wrote that. I wonder if many woman may use these terms to make it seem like they weren't weak. Basically, yeah, he slapped me with his hand, but I took a baseball bat to his knees!


I would be interested to hear what a DV expert would say on this. Why do people use these terms when they are describing physical altercations in their life? No war---just asking your opinon.

Old Soul, there may have been people in the Simpson circle who did believe this. Not that is right, just some people believe that if you hit, then you shouldn't be surprised when you are hit back. If you push, don't be surprised to be pushed, etc.

Sometimes old soul may need to read a little more before attacking.
i think it was Cora that made that statement about nocole also.

The three women that i have rescued and gotten into protective shelters and developed jobs for would dissagree with her belief that i am ignorant about DV i could refer her to The Underground Railroad on 11th st and she would learn more. hahaha

[Kate Sachel]

Yes, I will try to find it.

Kate,

Wouldn't you find odd if a parent didn't get angry if they were asked to take a lie detector test about their missing-murdered child? I am not saying they would refuse to take one, but doesn't it seem that anger would be a normal first reaction?

No, I would not find it odd.

And thank you for trying to find a link for me.

Kate

[tv]

Just seeking a clarification on your post, that's all, because the cliche is that the Indians' lands were stolen through robbery and swindles.
Now I'm an Native American hater because I didn't know what you were referring to?

[Kate Sachel]

Sometimes old soul may need to read a little more before attacking.
i think it was Cora that made that statement about nocole also.

The three women that i have rescued and gotten into protective shelters and developed jobs for would dissagree with her belief that i am ignorant about DV i could refer her to The Underground Railroad on 11th st and she would learn more. hahaha

I believe we can disregard this from the very man who once told a woman on this forum that she deserved the beatings that her husband gave her.

Kate

[old_soul]

You have posted the kind of mean spirited post about the kids that i was talking to tv about.

You are wrong. It was not a mean spirited post about them. It was about the pattern of psychological and physical abuse and how it manifests. The silence continues and the memories and hurt stay inside.

You do not see me discussing or pondering on what they saw that night, or why didn't they......this and that.

You didn't respond to the rest of my post ~ I hope you will when you return.

[GreenIce]

Sydney and Justin to this very day, have done the same thing that any family involved in abuse does..they keep quiet. The PATTERN , Hello, just as Nicole and millons of other women have done, is to not tell, not talk about it.
It's embarrassing. It gives people reason to talk down about 'you'. It makes you feel like less of a person than you already feel. He'll deny it anyway, just as Nicole acknowledged that in her letter to OJ, about the lied that she fell or whatever, and he had hit her and she had the bruises....Just keep quiet about it. This is what abused people do. It also means admitting to oneself that you failed, and can not handle what you thought you could. Failure in oneself.

Does anyone really not believe that Sydney, at one time or another, Googled this, to answer some of her own unanswered questions?

Old Soul,

You may be right and you may be wrong. Only Sydney and Justin know if you are right or wrong. However, Sydney and Justin were seen by several professionals, I am sure that these professionals were able to ask these types of questions in a manner that would not have looked like they were accusing their father of anything.

Because of their ages at the time of the murders and who they were living with, I don't see where embarrassment would come into play. Not saying that I disagree with you about but talking to their family about their parents is not the same as talking to the media. IMO.

[GreenIce]

Sydney and Justin to this very day, have done the same thing that any family involved in abuse does..they keep quiet. The PATTERN , Hello, just as Nicole and millons of other women have done, is to not tell, not talk about it.
It's embarrassing. It gives people reason to talk down about 'you'. It makes you feel like less of a person than you already feel. He'll deny it anyway, just as Nicole acknowledged that in her letter to OJ, about the lies that she fell or whatever, and he had hit her and she had the bruises...remember that?....Just keep quiet about it. This is what abused people do. It also means admitting to oneself that you failed, and can not handle what you thought you could. Failure in oneself.

Does anyone really not believe that Sydney, at one time or another, Googled this, to answer some of her own unanswered questions?


Old Soul,

You are assuming that Sydney does have questions about that night, maybe she already knew the answers to all her questions that night?

[William Anthony]

Now I'm an Native American hater because I didn't know what you were referring to?

I am not hiring anyone to translate or do the twist with. I have never said you were a Native American hater.:) I was simply seeking to see if you believe the cliche (because we were not around) that their land was stolen or swindled from them.

[old_soul]

It would be lovely to live in a world where we could be assured that family and friends help and support those that they are supposed to love. But the reality is that your ideal is fantasy. I have toured battered women's shelters in now eight states and the majority of these women are there because they had no where else to turn. So many of these women have stories to tell that would offend any decent human being's core morals and beliefs regarding family. So many of them had friends and family that turned a blind eye, or that let them simply go it alone because they felt that they were getting what they asked for by not leaving in the first place. Many of them just were not believed because their husband's were wealthy, upstanding members of their community.

It's sad, but it is real. Up until 1993 doctors in hospitals were not even required to report obvious signs of domestic violence. It just was not acknowledged for a very long period of timing as being something other than a private, family affair. Unfortunately, many still view it as such.

Kate

:beer: Yes Kate. There is also the very real fear of death if the person found out they told another, and IMO, from what I have seen, it is shameful to them that they even allow themselves to be there and go through this, but they do feel helpless. It is so sad. To be involved is really to know it. To try to move on is to own it. Not easy.

[GreenIce]

It would be lovely to live in a world where we could be assured that family and friends help and support those that they are supposed to love. But the reality is that your ideal is fantasy. I have toured battered women's shelters in now eight states and the majority of these women are there because they had no where else to turn. So many of these women have stories to tell that would offend any decent human being's core morals and beliefs regarding family. So many of them had friends and family that turned a blind eye, or that let them simply go it alone because they felt that they were getting what they asked for by not leaving in the first place. Many of them just were not believed because their husband's were wealthy, upstanding members of their community.

It's sad, but it is real. Up until 1993 doctors in hospitals were not even required to report obvious signs of domestic violence. It just was not acknowledged for a very long period of timing as being something other than a private, family affair. Unfortunately, many still view it as such.

Kate

Kate,

I disagree with your post in regards to this case. While I am sure it brings you no comfort to know the friends and family can turn a blind eye to such horror, it does not mean that it happend in this case.

Even if this is the case, what excuses do you provide for the LAPD in this case? The LAPD are not family members. They live in a world that is filled with ugliness, they see and smell the carnage of DV. What is your explaination why Nicole was deemed unworthy of help from the LAPD?

Faye Resnick never turned a blind to it, she says she knew about, she never contacted anyone, why? You making excuses for people who have more blood on their hands then Simpson, IMO.

[old_soul]

Old Soul,

You are assuming that Sydney does have questions about that night, maybe she already knew the answers to all her questions that night?

I am absolutely assuming she had questions about that night. Are we speaking of the same child who repeatedly called her mom from the police station that night after they were brought there?

[GreenIce]

:beer: Yes Kate. There is also the very real fear of death if the person found out they told another, and IMO, from what I have seen, it is shameful to them that they even allow themselves to be there and go through this, but they do feel helpless. It is so sad. To be involved is really to know it. To try to move on is to own it. Not easy.

Old Soul,

IMO, both you and Kate are giving free passes to Nicole's friends and family. If Faye is telling the truth about how Nicole felt about her family and why she stayed with Simpson, then she should have kept her mouth shut period. If she didn't speak up before the murders, she damn well has no right to accept any praise for telling the world that Nicole's parents didn't love their child as much as they loved Simpson. They loved the color of green more then their own daughter.

What did Faye accomplish with this? Tell me what? Was it to help Sydney and Justin? How are Sydney and Justin suppose to look their grandparents and aunts in the eyes? Do really think Sydney or Justin have never asked their grandparents why they did nothing while their mother was taking beatings for money?

Please explain to me why Faye was embarrassed for Nicole on this issue? Please explain to me why Faye would participate in Nicole's attempts to get back with OJ?

No, I am sorry, your heartfelt emotions are real, you both have hearts and are caring people, you care for everyone that is hurt---Faye does not have the same humanity chip that you two have. Apparently, neither does Nicole's family.

Stop making excuses for them, please.

[old_soul]

Old Soul,

Did you read Marcia Clark's book? In it she does make that comment that "she gave as good as she got". It really startled me that she wrote that. I wonder if many woman may use these terms to make it seem like they weren't weak. Basically, yeah, he slapped me with his hand, but I took a baseball bat to his knees!


I would be interested to hear what a DV expert would say on this. Why do people use these terms when they are describing physical altercations in their life? No war---just asking your opinon.

Old Soul, there may have been people in the Simpson circle who did believe this. Not that is right, just some people believe that if you hit, then you shouldn't be surprised when you are hit back. If you push, don't be surprised to be pushed, etc.

No, I didn't, and I don't plan to. I have no respect for Marcia C. I don't like how she handled the case, and I really feel, that although the case was her job, and she handled it as such, that there was a bit of something there which led to her not liking Nicole very much. She gave as good as she got is a very crass statement. Why not say 'she stood up to him' ? If Cora said this also, I would say it was out of a lack of forethought. What was Cora trying to say? That Nicole stood up to him , probably many times because as she became stronger and stronger emotionally, she used her mouth, and more than likely, even physically she stood up to him also...and That is so messed up. ... someone who is 80-90 lbs heavier and 8 inches or so bigger cannot get as good as they gave.. it's physically impossible.

I think the OJ and his family had 'hand trouble' from the start. If OJ's niece told the truth, her mom attacking her like that when she was in the back seat was not an isolated incident like Nicole and the maid......

[weezer]

:beer:

This little cartoon characters protray Faye's and the other "friends" attitude and behavior while they knew their best friend was being beaten.

Faye and her other friends, allowed OJ Simpson to pay for the beer in their drinks.

They also protray everbody in Nicole's apparent circle who were celebrating OJ and Nicole getting back together again.

You can't have it both ways. They are either liars or they drinking Nicole's blood out of the mugs. IMO.

here's what wrong with your theory: by the time Nicole talked to her 'friends' about the abuse, she and orenthal were no longer married. I tell you who did know for years -- while it was actually happening -- that Nicole was being abused and did nothing about it thought: ac cowlings and arnelle. did you want to add them to your list?

[martin II]

Sydney and Justin to this very day, have done the same thing that any family involved in abuse does..they keep quiet. The PATTERN , Hello, just as Nicole and millons of other women have done, is to not tell, not talk about it.
It's embarrassing. It gives people reason to talk down about 'you'. It makes you feel like less of a person than you already feel. He'll deny it anyway, just as Nicole acknowledged that in her letter to OJ, about the lies that she fell or whatever, and he had hit her and she had the bruises...remember that?....Just keep quiet about it. This is what abused people do. It also means admitting to oneself that you failed, and can not handle what you thought you could. Failure in oneself.

Does anyone really not believe that Sydney, at one time or another, Googled this, to answer some of her own unanswered questions?


I see you are still talking about what YOU THINK the kids should have done by now,You KNOW they should have gone public and made a big public DUMP
BECAUSE you know they must have what you KNOW on their minds.When you
don';t know what is on their minds and based on their behavior so far they have nothing that they want or need to say as they just could alereadty be at peace on the suibject.

After Nicoles death oj was able to provide and did provide his kids with some of best theraphy and professional mental health assistance that was available in LA and Florida. He stated that he was advised that the kids will discuss niciole when they are ready.I would assume they have in the last 14 years done so and that they are well fortrified and obviously have developed great coping skills. The fact that they have not gone public for the entertainment of some is a MOOT POINT if i have ever seen one.

[GreenIce]

I am absolutely assuming she had questions about that night. Are we speaking of the same child who repeatedly called her mom from the police station that night after they were brought there?

Old Soul,

Yes were are speaking of the same child who heard her mother fighting and crying that night. The same child who knows what time she went to bed. The same child who knew that her mother was never going to come and get her no matter how many times she called her mother's house. The same child who told the police that her parents did see each other that night and that her father was out of town and that is why he was not coming to get them.

The very same child who was asked for and gave the telephone number of her sister after sitting in a police stations for about 5 hours. Same kid, yep!

[weezer]

JUDGE RIPS & TRIPS SIMPSON DEFENSES
By MICHELLE CARUSO

Wednesday, September 18th 1996, 2:00AM

SANTA MONICA, Calif. The judge in O.J. Simpson's wrongful-death trial yesterday tightly reined in the defense, barring unproven claims that Colombian druglords committed the slayings or that evidence was planted.

Showing little tolerance for unsubstantiated theories, Judge Hiroshi Fujisaki told Simpson's attorneys they haven't backed up their assertions that a bloody glove and other blood evidence was planted purposely to frame Simpson.

The judge said they won't be permitted to make such charges unless they cite proof in court papers by Monday.

"You have done nothing to comply. . . . You must cite chapter and verse," he said.

When Simpson attorney Robert Blasier pleaded that they offered proof in earlier court papers, the judge snapped: "No you didn't."

Fujisaki also ruled that the defense can't mention former Los Angeles Police Detective Mark Fuhrman's alleged racist remarks unless it can link it to proof that he planted evidence.

In another blow to the defense, the judge barred Simpson's attorneys from suggesting that the June 12, 1994, slayings of Simpson's former wife Nicole Brown Simpson and her pal Ronald Goldman were linked to the drug problems of Nicole's friend Faye Resnick.

In the criminal trial, O.J.'s lawyers contended that Resnick owed money to Colombian druglords.

Fujisaki also denied a defense bid to bar tapes of Nicole's frantic 911 calls to police and other evidence of domestic violence in her relationship with O.J.

O.J. is being sued by the estate of Nicole and relatives of Goldman. The trial begins with jury selection today, nearly a year after O.J. was acquitted of murder charges.

Staying true to his no-nonsense reputation, Fujisaki decided on more than 30 motions in the case in about 21/2 hours. Among his decisions:

He nixed a defense bid to bring jurors to the slay scene, saying the viewing by the jury during O.J.'s criminal trial became a media "spectacle."

He ruled that the defense may show the jury video-taped deposition testimony of forensic expert Dr. Henry Lee, who has said there might be a second set of bloody shoe prints at the crime scene.

He said the defense can mention O.J.'s generous financial support of Nicole's relatives, but if it does, the plaintiffs can introduce evidence of O.J.'s alleged drug use, infidelity and spousal abuse.

O.J. and members of the Brown family did not appear in the courtroom yesterday.

They were in another court in nearby Orange County, fighting over custody of Nicole and O.J.'s children, Sydney, 10, and Justin, 8.

Meanwhile, an appeals court ruled yesterday that Fujisaki must allow a closed circuit audio feed to be piped from the court into a press room outside, and permit a sketch artist to draw inside the court.

Fujisaki had banned all TV cameras, recording devices and still photographers from the court.

[old_soul]

Old Soul,

IMO, both you and Kate are giving free passes to Nicole's friends and family. If Faye is telling the truth about how Nicole felt about her family and why she stayed with Simpson, then she should have kept her mouth shut period. If she didn't speak up before the murders, she damn well has no right to accept any praise for telling the world that Nicole's parents didn't love their child as much as they loved Simpson. They loved the color of green more then their own daughter.

What did Faye accomplish with this? Tell me what? Was it to help Sydney and Justin? How are Sydney and Justin suppose to look their grandparents and aunts in the eyes? Do really think Sydney or Justin have never asked their grandparents why they did nothing while their mother was taking beatings for money?



Please explain to me why Faye was embarrassed for Nicole on this issue? Please explain to me why Faye would participate in Nicole's attempts to get back with OJ?

No, I am sorry, your heartfelt emotions are real, you both have hearts and are caring people, you care for everyone that is hurt---Faye does not have the same humanity chip that you two have. Apparently, neither does Nicole's family.

Stop making excuses for them, please.

I cannot post what I feel about Faye. So much for that. As for Nicole's family ~ they only knew 1/100th of what went on. Nicole not letting on was typical (once again) in the pattern of abuse. Denise even admitted to only knowing so much, and I don't recall ever hearing Nicole asking her to get involved or in the middle of any problems with OJ.

I am not one for making excuses, never have been. I call a spade a spade, and my friends make it a point sometimes to put me on the spot because I will, straight up, answer what they have asked.

People can't help if you don't ask or don't tell.

[GreenIce]

No, I didn't, and I don't plan to. I have no respect for Marcia C. I don't like how she handled the case, and I really feel, that although the case was her job, and she handled it as such, that there was a bit of something there which led to her not liking Nicole very much. She gave as good as she got is a very crass statement. Why not say 'she stood up to him' ? If Cora said this also, I would say it was out of a lack of forethought. What was Cora trying to say? That Nicole stood up to him , probably many times because as she became stronger and stronger emotionally, she used her mouth, and more than likely, even physically she stood up to him also...and That is so messed up. ... someone who is 80-90 lbs heavier and 8 inches or so bigger cannot get as good as they gave.. it's physically impossible.

I think the OJ and his family had 'hand trouble' from the start. If OJ's niece told the truth, her mom attacking her like that when she was in the back seat was not an isolated incident like Nicole and the maid......

Old Soul,

I have read many of the books on this case, from both sides. I have learned a great deal more from the books that were written by the "other side". I would recommend reading Clark's book as I would Vanatter's, Lange's even MF's. I have very strong opinons on this case but that does not mean that I have not changed my opinons on certain issues.

For example, Clark deals with the "rumor" that Nicole had a guest that night was expecting one. She made a comment something to the effect that her house was spotless, she had everything in place, but her bed was unmade. What woman would clean her house, prepare for a guest and not make her bed? I think she has good point. Does that mean she wasn't expecting a guest, no, but it did give me another view.

Clark does explain why she did not "bond" with Browns. We all know how much Denise Brown hates OJ, well Marcia Clark is not that far down on her hate meter.

I don't know about the "hand issues" but I do know that "giving as good as you got" might be a family motto----and not just the Simpson family.

[GreenIce]

I cannot post what I feel about Faye. So much for that. As for Nicole's family ~ they only knew 1/100th of what went on. Nicole not letting on was typical (once again) in the pattern of abuse. Denise even admitted to only knowing so much, and I don't recall ever hearing Nicole asking her to get involved or in the middle of any problems with OJ.

I am not one for making excuses, never have been. I call a spade a spade, and my friends make it a point sometimes to put me on the spot because I will, straight up, answer what they have asked.

People can't help if you don't ask or don't tell.

Old Soul,

I do believe Denise knew only about the 1989 incident as well as her parents. However, that is not the impression we have been lead to believe. I do believe had Nicole gone to her family, she would have been helped. I do not believe for one second they loved Simpson's money more then they loved her. There is no credible evidence to support this.

However, Old Soul, lets just say that you and I are sisters. You are my big sister and you suspect I am being abused, that I am being beaten and that I am staying in this relationship because I don't feel I have your support or mom's or dad's? Tell me, how could I stop you from hiring a hitman to kill the SOB who has done this to me?

I do know there was some friction between Denise and Nicole and that at the time of Nicole's death, they were working on it. Denise may not have been close enough to Nicole at the time, but Mini, Nicole was very close to. There is no evidence to suggest that Mini would have turned a blind eye to this.

Denise had a rough patch for last few years of Nicole's life, when she finally dealt with her issues and a got a handle on them, I believe she reached out to Nicole.

How much would Nicole have to let on if she had black eyes? Bruises that showed hand imprints or the vacant look in her eyes? Nicole not saying she was abused is not excuse either. This is not a case of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell", IMO.

[martin II]

No, I didn't, and I don't plan to. I have no respect for Marcia C. I don't like how she handled the case, and I really feel, that although the case was her job, and she handled it as such, that there was a bit of something there which led to her not liking Nicole very much. She gave as good as she got is a very crass statement. Why not say 'she stood up to him' ? If Cora said this also, I would say it was out of a lack of forethought. What was Cora trying to say? That Nicole stood up to him , probably many times because as she became stronger and stronger emotionally, she used her mouth, and more than likely, even physically she stood up to him also...and That is so messed up. ... someone who is 80-90 lbs heavier and 8 inches or so bigger cannot get as good as they gave.. it's physically impossible.

I think the OJ and his family had 'hand trouble' from the start. If OJ's niece told the truth, her mom attacking her like that when she was in the back seat was not an isolated incident like Nicole and the maid......

In the last comment i read by Denise Brown she said she visited the kids in Florida and that both were doing fine.

What actual knowledge do you have on the mental state of these kids, how they live what they have discussed about their mothers death with their father the grand parents their friends and themselves.What specific knowledge do you have relative to their belief of who killed their mother.
Has either told you that oj killed their mother and they are somehow trapped
in his house and cannot get out.I am not talking about what you think.What you know for a fact will do.
Sydney is a young adult living on campus at a MA college,Jason is a junior at a college in Florida. Nothing could prevent them from sopeaking or doing what ever that wanted to do.
If you have this kind of inside information just share it with us.

[old_soul]

I see you are still talking about what YOU THINK the kids should have done by now,You KNOW they should have gone public and made a big public DUMP
BECAUSE you know they must have what you KNOW on their minds.When you
don';t know what is on their minds and based on their behavior so far they have nothing that they want or need to say as they just could alereadty be at peace on the suibject.

After Nicoles death oj was able to provide and did provide his kids with some of best theraphy and professional mental health assistance that was available in LA and Florida. He stated that he was advised that the kids will discuss niciole when they are ready.I would assume they have in the last 14 years done so and that they are well fortrified and obviously have developed great coping skills. The fact that they have not gone public for the entertainment of some is a MOOT POINT if i have ever seen one.

WHERE did I ever say anything of the sort of crap that is posted in your first 2 paragraphs...and your last sentence ~ is totally out there . Don't put words in my mouth. "HE" stated this "He" stated that. We know about the therapy and it should stay priviledged information.

I hope, for the sake of their own lives, that any therapy they did have helped.
I am also not stupid enough to believe that therapy is a short term thing, and
given recent revelations in the continuing saga of OJ, I hope they continue therapy. I understand they didn't even want to bother with him anymore since his recent arrest and subsequent prison term. I will not post any links for that..Google it, it's out there.

Don't talk down to me because you don't like or agree to my posts William..I'm not your wife.

[GreenIce]

In the last comment i read by Denise Brown she said she visited the kids in Florida and that both were doing fine.

What actual knowledge do you have on the mental state of these kids, how they live what they have discussed about their mothers death with their father the grand parents their friends and themselves.What specific knowledge do you have relative to their belief of who killed their mother.
Has either told you that oj killed their mother and they are somehow trapped
in his house and cannot get out.I am not talking about what you think.What you know for a fact will do.
Sydney is a young adult living on campus at a MA college,Jason is a junior at a college in Florida. Nothing could prevent them from sopeaking or doing what ever that wanted to do.
If you have this kind of inside information just share it with us.

Martin,

I think Sydney was studying child physcology. I don't know if she competed her degree or went into another field of study. Justin Simpson was at one time a very highly rated lacross player and I think basketball as well. I don't know what he is studying.

Martin,

I just read the Justin is a RB for the college he goes to.

[William Anthony]

Don't talk down to me because you don't like or agree to my posts William..I'm not your wife.
Reply With Quote

Old_Soul,

Would you care to explain this comment?

[GreenIce]

WHERE did I ever say anything of the sort of crap that is posted in your first 2 paragraphs...and your last sentence ~ is totally out there . Don't put words in my mouth. "HE" stated this "He" stated that. We know about the therapy and it should stay priviledged information.

I hope, for the sake of their own lives, that any therapy they did have helped.
I am also not stupid enough to believe that therapy is a short term thing, and
given recent revelations in the continuing saga of OJ, I hope they continue therapy. I understand they didn't even want to bother with him anymore since his recent arrest and subsequent prison term. I will not post any links for that..Google it, it's out there.

Don't talk down to me because you don't like or agree to my posts William..I'm not your wife.

Old Soul,

If Sydney or Justin had information that would have convicted their father, would not have been an issue of priviledge, at least not in the media. Justin wrote a story a murder, his school teacher took it to the Browns, the Browns took it them professionals and the professinals gave their report on this. This should have stayed priviledged but it didn't. There are professionals who will break this oath, some feel the reprimands are well worth it.

And if I was Sydney and Justin, I wouldn't want to have anything to do my father any more then the children of the Chinese man who broke into a Panda's cage to get a hug from the bear and then was mad went the Panda bit him!

I do not believe in the death penalty, however I do believe in the gift of death. Putting Simpson and the Chinese man to death is not punishment, it is protecting themselves against themselves. IMO.

[William Anthony]

WHERE did I ever say anything of the sort of crap that is posted in your first 2 paragraphs...and your last sentence ~ is totally out there . Don't put words in my mouth. "HE" stated this "He" stated that. We know about the therapy and it should stay priviledged information.

I hope, for the sake of their own lives, that any therapy they did have helped.
I am also not stupid enough to believe that therapy is a short term thing, and
given recent revelations in the continuing saga of OJ, I hope they continue therapy. I understand they didn't even want to bother with him anymore since his recent arrest and subsequent prison term. I will not post any links for that..Google it, it's out there.

Don't talk down to me because you don't like or agree to my posts William..I'm not your wife.

Why is it that you continue to mention my nic in your posts to Martin?

[old_soul]

Old Soul,

I do believe Denise knew only about the 1989 incident as well as her parents. However, that is not the impression we have been lead to believe. I do believe had Nicole gone to her family, she would have been helped. I do not believe for one second they loved Simpson's money more then they loved her. There is no credible evidence to support this.

However, Old Soul, lets just say that you and I are sisters. You are my big sister and you suspect I am being abused, that I am being beaten and that I am staying in this relationship because I don't feel I have your support or mom's or dad's? Tell me, how could I stop you from hiring a hitman to kill the SOB who has done this to me?

I do know there was some friction between Denise and Nicole and that at the time of Nicole's death, they were working on it. Denise may not have been close enough to Nicole at the time, but Mini, Nicole was very close to. There is no evidence to suggest that Mini would have turned a blind eye to this.

Denise had a rough patch for last few years of Nicole's life, when she finally dealt with her issues and a got a handle on them, I believe she reached out to Nicole.

How much would Nicole have to let on if she had black eyes? Bruises that showed hand imprints or the vacant look in her eyes? Nicole not saying she was abused is not excuse either. This is not a case of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell", IMO.

If you were my sister, I would IMPLORE, Beg of You to get the h*ll. out. I would do everything and anything to help you because abuse starts off occasionally, and escalates. (Hmm what was OJ telling Nicole when she was pregnant..look at you, you're fat, disgusting...) Now, what if you asked me to shut up, stay out of it, thinking you should have never told me.....

What could I do?

The next time, particularly bad incident, you ran to me in a moment of weakness. I do what I can, but I know there is no other recourse, I cannot change what you want to do. I'd be pissed and frustrated, but still, my hands are tied.

Thousands of women have died because of the above situation. They have said he's going to kill me, but Many believe the man, the one who loves them, will come to his senses at the last moment.

[old_soul]

Why is it that you continue to mention my nic in your posts to Martin?

Oh my, I hadn't realized I did that! I am so sorry, William Anthony!

[martin II]

Martin,

I think Sydney was studying child physcology. I don't know if she competed her degree or went into another field of study. Justin Simpson was at one time a very highly rated lacross player and I think basketball as well. I don't know what he is studying.

Martin,

I just read the Justin is a RB for the college he goes to.

I remember he played football in high school but switched to lacross.If he is back to football he certrainly has the genes for it.

[William Anthony]

Oh my, I hadn't realized I did that! I am so sorry, William Anthony!

Apologies accepted. Believe me I appreciate an intelligent lady who can communicate in a dignified and sophisticated manner without displaying a facade of prudishness.

[martin II]

Oh my, I hadn't realized I did that! I am so sorry, William Anthony!

Old South
If you are able to post specific informaiton on the lives and thoughts on ojs kids i will be pleased to be so informed.

[GreenIce]

If you were my sister, I would IMPLORE, Beg of You to get the h*ll. out. I would do everything and anything to help you because abuse starts off occasionally, and escalates. (Hmm what was OJ telling Nicole when she was pregnant..look at you, you're fat, disgusting...) Now, what if you asked me to shut up, stay out of it, thinking you should have never told me.....

What could I do?

The next time, particularly bad incident, you ran to me in a moment of weakness. I do what I can, but I know there is no other recourse, I cannot change what you want to do. I'd be pissed and frustrated, but still, my hands are tied.

Thousands of women have died because of the above situation. They have said he's going to kill me, but Many believe the man, the one who loves them, will come to his senses at the last moment.

Old Soul,

I think, I may wrong, but I think you would have told me too bad about regretting telling me. I know now and nothing is going to change the facts. I will help you any way I can and I if I have call every single person you know on the face of the earth to tell them about it, I will. If I have to go to the news media and tell them so be it. You mean more to me then anything else. Besides, I am your sister, your big sister, I have responsibilties!

Yes, your hands would be tied around my neck as you were trying to shake some sense into me. Not that I approve of the technique however, it may have just worked.

The problem with this case is that every one seems to believe that we all were there when these arguements started and when they ended. I am not saying that that Simpson never said these things, I just don't know the context of the conversation.

I did not follow the civil trial, I had other issues going on at the time. But I do remember about AC saying something about Simpson throwing Nicole's clothes out the window or something like that. My first thought was I be he was drinking because that seems to be a trigger in that relationship. It thought this was a totally out of control thing to do. Do I think it equals domestic abuse, no but still out of control. I just found out, within the past week, when this happend was right after Simpson's daughter died. I don't know how it started but I can see why he would be drinking after his daughter died. Does it make it right, now but there are circumstances that we know nothing of.

And yes, if he did say those things to Nicole while she was carrying his child, the shame is on him but he is not the only man who has been verbally cruel to the mothers of the children. It doesn't mean that if he called her a fat pig while she was carrying his daughter that means he killed her. I don't find the link.

[old_soul]

Oh my, I hadn't realized I did that! I am so sorry, William Anthony!

William, again, so sorry! I am laughing here, because as you said, I did it a couple of times, and you must have said to yourself:

":confused::cool: Huh? You talking to me?????"

LOL

[William Anthony]

William, again, so sorry! I am laughing here, because as you said, I did it a couple of times, and you must have said to yourself:

":confused::cool: Huh? You talking to me?????"

LOL

Perhaps, you have forgotten those posts where you posted that Martin and I were the same person or the one where you noted the times we logged in. It seems that you are confusing yourself. There is something in your posts that sounds vaguely familiar to me. I haven't been able to place my finger on it yet.

[Kate Sachel]

Old Soul,

IMO, both you and Kate are giving free passes to Nicole's friends and family. If Faye is telling the truth about how Nicole felt about her family and why she stayed with Simpson, then she should have kept her mouth shut period. If she didn't speak up before the murders, she damn well has no right to accept any praise for telling the world that Nicole's parents didn't love their child as much as they loved Simpson. They loved the color of green more then their own daughter.

What did Faye accomplish with this? Tell me what? Was it to help Sydney and Justin? How are Sydney and Justin suppose to look their grandparents and aunts in the eyes? Do really think Sydney or Justin have never asked their grandparents why they did nothing while their mother was taking beatings for money?

Please explain to me why Faye was embarrassed for Nicole on this issue? Please explain to me why Faye would participate in Nicole's attempts to get back with OJ?

No, I am sorry, your heartfelt emotions are real, you both have hearts and are caring people, you care for everyone that is hurt---Faye does not have the same humanity chip that you two have. Apparently, neither does Nicole's family.

Stop making excuses for them, please.

Might I begin with a gentle suggestion that you begin to watch the manner in which you address individuals at times. I have read your post reagrding houses and stones, and it seems that stones are all you are interested in throwing which strikes me as odd since your home is obviously glass.

First you are all over me for the fact that I expressed my opinion that the Brown family chose celebrity and money over the welfare of their daughter, and now you're all over me for your ludicrous misconception that I am making excuses for them. Tell me, which is it? Am I being too hard on them or am I making excuses for them?

I ever so anxiously await your response advising me of how I feel and what I am doing.

Kate

[Kate Sachel]

[QUOTE=GreenIce;9180398]Old Soul,

I do believe Denise knew only about the 1989 incident as well as her parents. However, that is not the impression we have been lead to believe. I do believe had Nicole gone to her family, she would have been helped. I do not believe for one second they loved Simpson's money more then they loved her. There is no credible evidence to support this.
QUOTE]

Really? So you don't recall Denise's testimony in the criminal trial of the incident in which she was actually where OJ picked Nicole up in front of her and threw her out the door onto her bottom? Or the interview she gave to Shiela Weller regarding how Nicole had told her that OJ had been angry with her and threw her out into a hallway almost naked? Or her interview with Catherine Crier in which she said that Nicole had told her of being beaten and having to go to the hospital but that she had minimized it when she had told Denise?

Kate

[old_soul]

Old Soul,

I think, I may wrong, but I think you would have told me too bad about regretting telling me. I know now and nothing is going to change the facts. I will help you any way I can and I if I have call every single person you know on the face of the earth to tell them about it, I will. If I have to go to the news media and tell them so be it. You mean more to me then anything else. Besides, I am your sister, your big sister, I have responsibilties!

Yes, your hands would be tied around my neck as you were trying to shake some sense into me. Not that I approve of the technique however, it may have just worked.

The problem with this case is that every one seems to believe that we all were there when these arguements started and when they ended. I am not saying that that Simpson never said these things, I just don't know the context of the conversation.

I did not follow the civil trial, I had other issues going on at the time. But I do remember about AC saying something about Simpson throwing Nicole's clothes out the window or something like that. My first thought was I be he was drinking because that seems to be a trigger in that relationship. It thought this was a totally out of control thing to do. Do I think it equals domestic abuse, no but still out of control. I just found out, within the past week, when this happend was right after Simpson's daughter died. I don't know how it started but I can see why he would be drinking after his daughter died. Does it make it right, now but there are circumstances that we know nothing of.

And yes, if he did say those things to Nicole while she was carrying his child, the shame is on him but he is not the only man who has been verbally cruel to the mothers of the children. It doesn't mean that if he called her a fat pig while she was carrying his daughter that means he killed her. I don't find the link.

One of my best friends is a domestic abuse counselor...she is also a psychotherapist. I hear many interesting stories from her also, besides the people I know of who have been there. Many time, abusers show the first signs after marriage. The mentality? :shrug: Anyway, the verbally abusing, the hurting of someones feeling however unjustified, is systematic. Of course, in and of itself a husband calling his wife a fat pig during an argument is one thing...But your pregnant wife, with your child, why would a man do this, belittle and put down this woman, when it's the furthest thing from the truth? As we know, it progressed. It would be interesting to know if this happened with Marguerite (sic?) or was just Nicole able to make him act this way because she opened her mouth to him?

On the flip side..don't you think there were friends, like Cowlings and even Arnelle who knew of his doing this...why didn't anyone try to get him help? Afraid to bring it up, or..not their place?

One of my clients who got the strength to actually leave , remembers how helpless she felt. It started with verbal abuse, and escalated. Fat lips, black eyes, bruised ribs. When she got home from her job as a extremely successful administrator making $75,000 in '85 at the age of 30, he expected her to cook his meals...and fast. I do not want to tell you the ways she tried to get back at him ~ the ways she tried to regain control of her sad life..

GreenIce, calling your pregnant wife a fat pig was the beginning of what was to come. Spousal Abuse Syndrome.

I basically agree with the rest of your post, but also learned, opening one's mouth leads to alienation, which defeats the purpose.

[One2Snoop]

Not sure if this has been posted....

O.J. Simpson's Sister Dies in Local Hospital
Posted By: Lesha Ruffin 16 hrs ago

http://www.news10.net/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=57428&provider=top

[William Anthony]

Not sure if this has been posted....

O.J. Simpson's Sister Dies in Local Hospital
Posted By: Lesha Ruffin 16 hrs ago

http://www.news10.net/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=57428&provider=top

My condolences go out to her family and loved ones and ask God to comfort them in the time of their loss. :rose:

[old_soul]

Not sure if this has been posted....

O.J. Simpson's Sister Dies in Local Hospital
Posted By: Lesha Ruffin 16 hrs ago

http://www.news10.net/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=57428&provider=top

Thanks Snoop, for the link.....


Carmelita was young.. how sad. :rose: interesting, how quick posters were to add comments in the section below the story.......

[martin II]

No, I didn't, and I don't plan to. I have no respect for Marcia C. I don't like how she handled the case, and I really feel, that although the case was her job, and she handled it as such, that there was a bit of something there which led to her not liking Nicole very much. She gave as good as she got is a very crass statement. Why not say 'she stood up to him' ? If Cora said this also, I would say it was out of a lack of forethought. What was Cora trying to say? That Nicole stood up to him , probably many times because as she became stronger and stronger emotionally, she used her mouth, and more than likely, even physically she stood up to him also...and That is so messed up. ... someone who is 80-90 lbs heavier and 8 inches or so bigger cannot get as good as they gave.. it's physically impossible.

I think the OJ and his family had 'hand trouble' from the start. If OJ's niece told the truth, her mom attacking her like that when she was in the back seat was not an isolated incident like Nicole and the maid......

Nicole was in great physical shape and her cardio must have been great as she did jog daily.

William C Dear reported in his book that Jason had become peeved with nicole because she had spent so much tine in the gym and has beefed up with too much muscle until she did not, to him, look as feminine as she did previously.

[martin II]

One of my best friends is a domestic abuse counselor...she is also a psychotherapist. I hear many interesting stories from her also, besides the people I know of who have been there. Many time, abusers show the first signs after marriage. The mentality? :shrug: Anyway, the verbally abusing, the hurting of someones feeling however unjustified, is systematic. Of course, in and of itself a husband calling his wife a fat pig during an argument is one thing...But your pregnant wife, with your child, why would a man do this, belittle and put down this woman, when it's the furthest thing from the truth? As we know, it progressed. It would be interesting to know if this happened with Marguerite (sic?) or was just Nicole able to make him act this way because she opened her mouth to him?

On the flip side..don't you think there were friends, like Cowlings and even Arnelle who knew of his doing this...why didn't anyone try to get him help? Afraid to bring it up, or..not their place?

One of my clients who got the strength to actually leave , remembers how helpless she felt. It started with verbal abuse, and escalated. Fat lips, black eyes, bruised ribs. When she got home from her job as a extremely successful administrator making $75,000 in '85 at the age of 30, he expected her to cook his meals...and fast. I do not want to tell you the ways she tried to get back at him ~ the ways she tried to regain control of her sad life..

GreenIce, calling your pregnant wife a fat pig was the beginning of what was to come. Spousal Abuse Syndrome.

I basically agree with the rest of your post, but also learned, opening one's mouth leads to alienation, which defeats the purpose.

Cora was close to Nicole and they jogged daily .sometimes twice daily.She would have seen signs and would have spoken on any regular abuse.

[martin II]

Old Soul,

You may be right and you may be wrong. Only Sydney and Justin know if you are right or wrong. However, Sydney and Justin were seen by several professionals, I am sure that these professionals were able to ask these types of questions in a manner that would not have looked like they were accusing their father of anything.

Because of their ages at the time of the murders and who they were living with, I don't see where embarrassment would come into play. Not saying that I disagree with you about but talking to their family about their parents is not the same as talking to the media. IMO.

When oj was released some people came to his house and hung some signs on his gate. Murderer killer etc
Sdyney came out and ripped all the signs.