Random Discussions On The Case

[GreenIce]

There is no evidence that Park lied and he had absolutely no reason to lie. So far, everyone that touches this case is a liar except OJ Simpson and Johnnie Cochran. Not very realistic. It's very hard to discuss this case with the two of you when you constantly accuse the witnesses of lying.

TV,

The jurors asked for a read back only of Park's testimony. The jurors were at both crime scenes, including where the glove was found. The jurors were at both gates, they showed were the Bronco was parked. It was there belief that Simpson did not have the time to do every thing the DA's were accusing him of.

No one said Park has lied only that he was mistaken on some one the things he said he saw or would have seen. His testimony is rather confusing and it is to the DA's benefit.

Robert Shapiro made a huge mistake when he taped Park's conversation without tell him that it was being recorded. From that point on Park's mother took over for her son, to the point of sitting at the DA's table when he testified at the prelim hearing. The defense did want to talk to Park again but his mother refused. They took Mrs. Park up in a private airplane to explain how his testimony may not be accurate. She said her son saw what the saw and he was not going to change his story.

Keeping that in mind, then he did see things that were not there. He could not have seen things that he said he had seen. Unlike Fung, Mozzola, the police, the detectives, he his not a professional witness. He told the truth in what he believed he saw and didn't see. His testimony, IMO, does more to help the defense then the DA's.

In reality, what is being side by the DA's, that OJ drove like a bat out of hell to get back to the estate, so fast that he parked the Bronco, askewed-haphazardly--depending on which version of MF's you believe. After getting out of the Bronco, he went to his front gate, electronically opened the gate, and walked right in to his front door. That makes no sense at all.

Bottom line, the DA's had no proof that Simpson was behind that wall, they never even attempted to explain that to the jury so they have him walking from his Bronco right into the front door. Makes no sense, IMO.

[weezer]

Genesis. To those that have minds let them think. Adam means ruddy complected of the earth. The vision of God in the burning bush. Adam and Eve were naked (warm climate).

To them that have eyes and are capable of reading let them read.

http://www.kjvbible.org/rivers_of_the_garden_of_eden.html

To them that have wisdom let them understand.

I didn't realize Israel was ever considered to be part of Africa -- live and learn I guess.

"The available data appears to suggest that present-day Israel was the central location of the Garden of Eden."

[martin II]

To those that have ears let them hear. To those that have eyes, let them see. A receptive mind and open heart will allow you to go further than you dreamed.

I hope a new argument is not comming that Africa is not a continent and that civilization did not originate along the nile river.

[William Anthony]

I didn't realize Israel was ever considered to be part of Africa -- live and learn I guess.

"The available data appears to suggest that present-day Israel was the central location of the Garden of Eden."

There was no Israel at the time God created Adam and Eve. I have provided a link with a well reasoned analysis of the location of the Garden of Eden in Africa. The anthropologist have found the mother of all to be a Black woman. The Hebrew people fought for many years to have a homeland. The question is not where Israel is but where the Garden of Eden is and all indications indicate that the Garden of Eden is within the continent of Africa. The available data I presented suggests just that.

http://scripturetext.com/songs/1-5.htm

"King James Bible
I am black, but comely, O ye daughters of Jerusalem, as the tents of Kedar, as the curtains of Solomon."

[martin II]

I didn't realize Israel was ever considered to be part of Africa -- live and learn I guess.

"The available data appears to suggest that present-day Israel was the central location of the Garden of Eden."

The origin of civilazation has been traced to the nile river area located in egypt/sudan.

[weezer]

There was no Israel at the time God created Adam and Eve. I have provided a link with a well reasoned analysis of the location of the Garden of Eden in Africa. The anthropologist have found the mother of all to be a Black woman. The Hebrew people fought for many years to have a homeland. The question is not where Israel is but where the Garden of Eden is and all indications indicate that the Garden of Eden is within the continent of Africa. The available data I presented suggests just that.

http://scripturetext.com/songs/1-5.htm

The quote I posted came from your link:

"The available data appears to suggest that present-day Israel was the central location of the Garden of Eden."

[tv]

TV,

The jurors asked for a read back only of Park's testimony. The jurors were at both crime scenes, including where the glove was found. The jurors were at both gates, they showed were the Bronco was parked. It was there belief that Simpson did not have the time to do every thing the DA's were accusing him of.

No one said Park has lied only that he was mistaken on some one the things he said he saw or would have seen. His testimony is rather confusing and it is to the DA's benefit.

Robert Shapiro made a huge mistake when he taped Park's conversation without tell him that it was being recorded. From that point on Park's mother took over for her son, to the point of sitting at the DA's table when he testified at the prelim hearing. The defense did want to talk to Park again but his mother refused. They took Mrs. Park up in a private airplane to explain how his testimony may not be accurate. She said her son saw what the saw and he was not going to change his story.

Keeping that in mind, then he did see things that were not there. He could not have seen things that he said he had seen. Unlike Fung, Mozzola, the police, the detectives, he his not a professional witness. He told the truth in what he believed he saw and didn't see. His testimony, IMO, does more to help the defense then the DA's.

In reality, what is being side by the DA's, that OJ drove like a bat out of hell to get back to the estate, so fast that he parked the Bronco, askewed-haphazardly--depending on which version of MF's you believe. After getting out of the Bronco, he went to his front gate, electronically opened the gate, and walked right in to his front door. That makes no sense at all.

Bottom line, the DA's had no proof that Simpson was behind that wall, they never even attempted to explain that to the jury so they have him walking from his Bronco right into the front door. Makes no sense, IMO.

GreenIce,

The proof is the glove and the DNA on the glove. Sorry you refuse to understand something so simple. I've been given a hard time for pointing out your inaccuracies stated as fact in the past so I'll pass on responding to the rest of your post. :)

[William Anthony]

The quote I posted came from your link:

"The available data appears to suggest that present-day Israel was the central location of the Garden of Eden."

To them that have wisdom let them understand. You do realize that the article speaks of the great rift placing Israel originally in the continent of Africa's land mass. A receptive mind and open heart will allow you to go further than you dreamed. The key words being "present-day Israel "

[GreenIce]

If one looks at the Rockingham layout it is plain that:
1. Katos quarters is in the extreme west/ south of the main house.
2. He would walk the length of the back of the house and the north side of the house to get to the Ashford side of the property. walking time i guess 1 1/2 minutes or less.
3. Park would be parked a few feet east and north at the Ashford gate maby 6-9 feet or a little more from where Kato would have been standing.if he did stand there.
The front door would be about 20-30 yards from the Ashford gate about half the house length and the south walkway would be another 20-30 feet from the front door.the other half of the house.
Park would not be looking at Kato to his left and oj straight in front at the door at the same time.
Kato would have to come out of the walkway to see oj or Park.

martin II

William and Martin,

Are the two of you making a huge, huge mistake while debating the Park/Kato sightings? Aren't the two of you assuming that Nicole and Ron are both already dead?

Wasn't the real reason why Dr. Golden wasn't called because what time Judy Brown gave about the last phone call, the evidence that two knives were used and all of the "indicators" for time of death led him to believe the murders happened after 11:00 p.m.?

[tv]

If one looks at the Rockingham layout it is plain that:
1. Katos quarters is in the extreme west/ south of the main house.
2. He would walk the length of the back of the house and the north side of the house to get to the Ashford side of the property. walking time i guess 1 1/2 minutes or less.
3. Park would be parked a few feet east and north at the Ashford gate maby 6-9 feet or a little more from where Kato would have been standing.if he did stand there.
The front door would be about 20-30 yards from the Ashford gate about half the house length and the south walkway would be another 20-30 feet from the front door.the other half of the house.
Park would not be looking at Kato to his left and oj straight in front at the door at the same time.
Kato would have to come out of the walkway to see oj or Park.

martin IIMy goodness, martin, one would think you were like a little fly on the side of the house and saw everything even which direction people were looking in. I think you might have an unused talent there.

[weezer]

To them that have wisdom let them understand. You do realize that the article speaks of the great rift placing Israel originally in the continent of Africa's land mass. A receptive mind and open heart will allow you to go further than you dreamed. The key words being "present-day Israel "

hmmm -- are you sure you read that article and/or the Bible? unless the rivers changed directions and names, I believe you are wrong.

[William Anthony]

William and Martin,

Are the two of you making a huge, huge mistake while debating the Park/Kato sightings? Aren't the two of you assuming that Nicole and Ron are both already dead?

Wasn't the real reason why Dr. Golden wasn't called because what time Judy Brown gave about the last phone call, the evidence that two knives were used and all of the "indicators" for time of death led him to believe the murders happened after 11:00 p.m.?

My argument has nothing to do with the time of deaths of Ms. NBS or Mr. RG, although I can understand why you would think so and appreciate the opportunity to explain. My argument deals with the time Kato heard the thumps and Ms. Shively's statements and the fact that someone, who may have wanted to implicate Simpson in those murders, took that knowledge and an a later opportunity to place a glove there.

[GreenIce]

GreenIce,

The proof is the glove and the DNA on the glove. Sorry you refuse to understand something so simple. I've been given a hard time for pointing out your inaccuracies stated as fact in the past so I'll pass on responding to the rest of your post. :)

TV,

I am not responsible for how you chose to interpet my posts. I made no inaccurate statements and posted them as fact. I understand why you will not respond to my posts--I feel the same way about FBG.

The value of the glove means nothing when then the DA's can't give proof on when and how it got there. They can't make Mother Nature in their witness and say that all the damage created by a person climbing over the fence covered with vegitation would repair itself within 12 hours.

The DNA on the glove is powerful---yet, you have to take into consideration Collin Yamanchi's testimony. You must recognize the pattern of errors by the CSI teams.

[William Anthony]

hmmm -- are you sure you read that article and/or the Bible? unless the rivers changed directions and names, I believe you are wrong.

I am sure you did not read the entire article or do not understand plate tectonics. However, be that as it may, understand that at the time God created Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden no man named continents existed and the division is explained by plate tectonics.

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=12491D2AE0BC3C02

[martin II]

hmmm -- are you sure you read that article and/or the Bible? unless the rivers changed directions and names, I believe you are wrong.

http://www.africawithin.com/jeffries/africa_birthplace.htm

[martin II]

Little Girl, 3 Million Years Old, Offers New Hints on Evolution


*Please Note: Archive articles do not include photos, charts or graphics. More information.
September 21, 2006, Thursday
By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD (NYT); Foreign Desk
Late Edition - Final, Section A, Page 1, Column 1, 920 words
DISPLAYING ABSTRACT - If the fossil Lucy, the most famous woman from out of the deep human past, had a child, it might have looked a lot like the bundle of skull and bones uncovered by scientists digging in the badlands of Ethiopia. The paleontologists who are announcing the discovery in the ...

To read this archive article, upgrade to TimesSelect or purchase as a single article.

[tv]

TV,

I am not responsible for how you chose to interpet my posts. I made no inaccurate statements and posted them as fact. I understand why you will not respond to my posts--I feel the same way about FBG.

The value of the glove means nothing when then the DA's can't give proof on when and how it got there. They can't make Mother Nature in their witness and say that all the damage created by a person climbing over the fence covered with vegitation would repair itself within 12 hours.

The DNA on the glove is powerful---yet, you have to take into consideration Collin Yamanchi's testimony. You must recognize the pattern of errors by the CSI teams.

My decision not to address the remainder of your post had nothing to do with your relationship with fbgweezer and I don't appreciate you using a response to me to slam her. I'm tired of pointing out your inaccuracies and then being chastised for it by other posters. It's time consuming and accomplishes nothing for me to do so. If you don't see that the Rockingham glove containing the blood of Ron, Nicole and OJ Simpson incriminates Simpson and places him behind Kato's room then that's fine with me. If you think errors by CSI and the LAPD lab turned someone else's blood into OJ Simpson's then that's fine with me also.

[weezer]

http://www.africawithin.com/jeffries/africa_birthplace.htm

I know how strong your views are on racisim so I'm surprised that you would not only believe but post a racist's views:

"Jeffries became the focus of controversy last summer when videotapes of a lecture containing his theories on a racist conspiracy led by Jewish members of the media were made public."

[GreenIce]

My argument has nothing to do with the time of deaths of Ms. NBS or Mr. RG, although I can understand why you would think so and appreciate the opportunity to explain. My argument deals with the time Kato heard the thumps and Ms. Shively's statements and the fact that someone, who may have wanted to implicate Simpson in those murders, took that knowledge and an a later opportunity to place a glove there.

William,

IMO, there is evidence to support that whoever did kill Ron and Nicole planned to implicate Simpson and if the noises Kato heard had anything to do with the murders, he was meant to hear them.

IMO, I believe there were more people at Bundy at the time of the murders then just two. The phone call about the bodies at Bundy, the cops who saw the dog walker and did not testify in the trial and what was found at Bundy.
Just to name a few.

IMO, Park's testimony on what he saw really is the not the key to his testimony, it was what he heard or should have heard that night. The same for Kato, what did hear after the thumps? Did he heard footsteps? Did he hear the reflex of what ever hit the wall bounce back into the fence?

It is my understanding that the defense believe that had Kato not mentioned the thumps to MF that morning, the glove would have found in the Bronco or somewhere else on Simpson's property.

Also, the hot tub incident. Simpson goes to Kato about not turning it off, Kato says he is positive he turned it off. So who turned it on and why?

[martin II]

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/02/0216_050216_omo.html

[martin II]

My decision not to address the remainder of your post had nothing to do with your relationship with fbgweezer and I don't appreciate you using a response to me to slam her. I'm tired of pointing out your inaccuracies and then being chastised for it by other posters. It's time consuming and accomplishes nothing for me to do so. If you don't see that the Rockingham glove containing the blood of Ron, Nicole and OJ Simpson incriminates Simpson and places him behind Kato's room then that's fine with me. If you think errors by CSI and the LAPD lab turned someone else's blood into OJ Simpson's then that's fine with me also.

TV

There is no proof of whose blood was on that glove when it was in the walkway. There are facts that the blood of the victims and oj simpson was in the hands of the lapd lab before it was announced that the blood on the glove belonged to Oj and niciole

maertin II

[William Anthony]

hmmm -- are you sure you read that article and/or the Bible? unless the rivers changed directions and names, I believe you are wrong.

This is from my the article in my link.

The Gihon is spoken of as: "Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia" which is the African land area west of the Red Sea and southward. Of course, the political boundaries of what we call Ethiopia today were certainly different in Biblical times, but the general area is correct. And if a river formerly flowed down what is now the Red Sea basin and southward into Africa at the Afar Triangle, it would certainly fit the description of a river that "compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia." (Genesis 2:13)




map source: http://encarta.msn.com/map_701512359/Ethiopia.html

If we have correctly identified all four rivers, we now have 2 rivers (Euphrates and Tigris) originating today out of Turkey and another running down what was is now the Red Sea south of Israel and deep into Africa, following the path of the present-day Great Rift system.

[tv]

TV

There is no proof of whose blood was on that glove when it was in the walkway. There are facts that the blood of the victims and oj simpson was in the hands of the lapd lab before it was announced that the blood on the glove belonged to Oj and niciole

maertin II


The evidence showed that the blood of Nicole Brown Simpson, OJ Simpson and Ron Goldman was on the glove. You can't change the evidence just because you want OJ Simpson to be innocent of the crimes. Of course, it was in the hands of the LAPD lab before it was announced. They had to run DNA tests on it to see who it belonged to.

[weezer]

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/02/0216_050216_omo.html

I'm going to settle for what the Bible says. I also believe in creastionism and not evolution but then each to his own. . .

[weezer]

This is from my the article in my link.

The Gihon is spoken of as: "Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia" which is the African land area west of the Red Sea and southward. Of course, the political boundaries of what we call Ethiopia today were certainly different in Biblical times, but the general area is correct. And if a river formerly flowed down what is now the Red Sea basin and southward into Africa at the Afar Triangle, it would certainly fit the description of a river that "compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia." (Genesis 2:13)




map source: http://encarta.msn.com/map_701512359/Ethiopia.html

If we have correctly identified all four rivers, we now have 2 rivers (Euphrates and Tigris) originating today out of Turkey and another running down what was is now the Red Sea south of Israel and deep into Africa, following the path of the present-day Great Rift system.

and ends with: "The available data appears to suggest that present-day Israel was the central location of the Garden of Eden."

[GreenIce]

My decision not to address the remainder of your post had nothing to do with your relationship with fbgweezer and I don't appreciate you using a response to me to slam her. I'm tired of pointing out your inaccuracies and then being chastised for it by other posters. It's time consuming and accomplishes nothing for me to do so. If you don't see that the Rockingham glove containing the blood of Ron, Nicole and OJ Simpson incriminates Simpson and places him behind Kato's room then that's fine with me. If you think errors by CSI and the LAPD lab turned someone else's blood into OJ Simpson's then that's fine with me also.

TV,

Again, I understand your feelings about my posts. To say that I feel the same way about another poster is not a slam, I am just saying I understand it and there are no hard feelings. We see the evidence in this case differently.

However, you are dead wrong--I never, ever posted that the defense or myself ever thougt that the tests that were conducted turned someone else's blood into Simpsons. In fact, every other poster on this board who does not agree will vouch for the fact that I have always posted that the defense never made the claim that someone's blood was turned into Simpson's. In fact, I have said that this was Rock Harmon's biggest mistake during the trial when he kept on asking those types of questions. The bottom line is, not who's blood, but how and when did it get there.

I have also posted that, IMO, if the thumps had anything to do with the murders, then Kato was meant to hear them. Is it possible and does it make sense that Simpson may have made the thumps to draw Kato out of his room while he entered his estate at another location, yes, I believe that is possible.

I have also posted that even if the glove was planted by MF, it does not mean that Simpson is innocent. I have only posted that there is no trace evidence of anyone slamming into a wall, anyone being back there other then MF. I have also stated that I find it insane to believe that all 4 detectives did not look very hard for any evidence on how the glove got back there. In fact, MF said he wasn't looking for it. He is a detective, how could he not look for it?

I have been on the boards enough that other posters do know my feelings and my style of posting---if they believe you have taken my posts the wrong way, then they will make posts to ease a misundertanding.

As you know, I disagree with Martin and William on several key points.

If you have taken offense, then I am sorry. If you feel you have been ganged up on by other posters in my defense, then again I am sorry.

[weezer]

My decision not to address the remainder of your post had nothing to do with your relationship with fbgweezer and I don't appreciate you using a response to me to slam her. I'm tired of pointing out your inaccuracies and then being chastised for it by other posters. It's time consuming and accomplishes nothing for me to do so. If you don't see that the Rockingham glove containing the blood of Ron, Nicole and OJ Simpson incriminates Simpson and places him behind Kato's room then that's fine with me. If you think errors by CSI and the LAPD lab turned someone else's blood into OJ Simpson's then that's fine with me also.

ouch! and here I thought we were having indepth dialogue --

[William Anthony]

William,

IMO, there is evidence to support that whoever did kill Ron and Nicole planned to implicate Simpson and if the noises Kato heard had anything to do with the murders, he was meant to hear them.

IMO, I believe there were more people at Bundy at the time of the murders then just two. The phone call about the bodies at Bundy, the cops who saw the dog walker and did not testify in the trial and what was found at Bundy.
Just to name a few.

IMO, Park's testimony on what he saw really is the not the key to his testimony, it was what he heard or should have heard that night. The same for Kato, what did hear after the thumps? Did he heard footsteps? Did he hear the reflex of what ever hit the wall bounce back into the fence?

It is my understanding that the defense believe that had Kato not mentioned the thumps to MF that morning, the glove would have found in the Bronco or somewhere else on Simpson's property.

Also, the hot tub incident. Simpson goes to Kato about not turning it off, Kato says he is positive he turned it off. So who turned it on and why?

I did not say that the killer planned to implicate Simpson.

I agree that there is evidence from which an inference can be drawn that there were more than three people at Bundy at the time of the murders.

I am just going by the time line as established by the testimony and the phone records, showing what that time line was and explaining what was said in that regard. The testimony about the thumps, only allowed someone to implicate Simpson, imho.

I believe that the glove would have been found somewhere else had there been no knowledge of the thumps.

I am certain one of the two were mistaken about the hot tub incident.

[martin II]

William,

IMO, there is evidence to support that whoever did kill Ron and Nicole planned to implicate Simpson and if the noises Kato heard had anything to do with the murders, he was meant to hear them.

IMO, I believe there were more people at Bundy at the time of the murders then just two. The phone call about the bodies at Bundy, the cops who saw the dog walker and did not testify in the trial and what was found at Bundy.
Just to name a few.

IMO, Park's testimony on what he saw really is the not the key to his testimony, it was what he heard or should have heard that night. The same for Kato, what did hear after the thumps? Did he heard footsteps? Did he hear the reflex of what ever hit the wall bounce back into the fence?

It is my understanding that the defense believe that had Kato not mentioned the thumps to MF that morning, the glove would have found in the Bronco or somewhere else on Simpson's property.

Also, the hot tub incident. Simpson goes to Kato about not turning it off, Kato says he is positive he turned it off. So who turned it on and why?

Since there is no evidence that Oj or anyone else jumped the fence through the bushes and walked up that walkway i conclude that someone walked into the walkway from the garage area up to the gate and tossed the glove to where it was found. I am not sure if it was Furhman or Phillips but it had to be someone that had been at Bundy early on 6/12.

If the detectives had made notes of their activities at Rockingham there would be a way to track what each did but none did.

[William Anthony]

and ends with: "The available data appears to suggest that present-day Israel was the central location of the Garden of Eden."

Yes but the question was not where Israel is presently but where the Garden of Eden was at the time God created the world before the Great shift. I respectfully submit to you that it was Africa, meaning the land mass, which is why Solomon acknowledge I am Black and why the image of God in the burning bush had feet the color of Bronze. Of course, you are free to disregard the Bible, the geological history, the archaeological findings and the Great Shift, if it suits your particular fancy.

[martin II]

TV,

Again, I understand your feelings about my posts. To say that I feel the same way about another poster is not a slam, I am just saying I understand it and there are no hard feelings. We see the evidence in this case differently.

However, you are dead wrong--I never, ever posted that the defense or myself ever thougt that the tests that were conducted turned someone else's blood into Simpsons. In fact, every other poster on this board who does not agree will vouch for the fact that I have always posted that the defense never made the claim that someone's blood was turned into Simpson's. In fact, I have said that this was Rock Harmon's biggest mistake during the trial when he kept on asking those types of questions. The bottom line is, not who's blood, but how and when did it get there.

I have also posted that, IMO, if the thumps had anything to do with the murders, then Kato was meant to hear them. Is it possible and does it make sense that Simpson may have made the thumps to draw Kato out of his room while he entered his estate at another location, yes, I believe that is possible.

I have also posted that even if the glove was planted by MF, it does not mean that Simpson is innocent. I have only posted that there is no trace evidence of anyone slamming into a wall, anyone being back there other then MF. I have also stated that I find it insane to believe that all 4 detectives did not look very hard for any evidence on how the glove got back there. In fact, MF said he wasn't looking for it. He is a detective, how could he not look for it?

I have been on the boards enough that other posters do know my feelings and my style of posting---if they believe you have taken my posts the wrong way, then they will make posts to ease a misundertanding.

As you know, I disagree with Martin and William on several key points.

If you have taken offense, then I am sorry. If you feel you have been ganged up on by other posters in my defense, then again I am sorry.

without a doubt you rank as one of the most informed posters posting here for some time. You have brought information to the thread that most have never heard of or read.
I see nothing wrong with your style or the way you present your comments so keep up the good work.
martin II

[tv]

I did not say that the killer planned to implicate Simpson.

I agree that there is evidence from which an inference can be drawn that there were more than three people at Bundy at the time of the murders.

I am just going by the time line as established by the testimony and the phone records, showing what that time line was and explaining what was said in that regard. The testimony about the thumps, only allowed someone to implicate Simpson, imho.

I believe that the glove would have been found somewhere else had there been no knowledge of the thumps.

I am certain one of the two were mistaken about the hot tub incident.
I agree. Not everything is a deep, dark mystery. I think Kato left the jets turned on and Simpson was irritated about it. I can't say I blame him for that. Apparently, Kato had done it before.

[weezer]

Yes but the question was not where Israel is present but where the Garden of Eden was at the time God created the world before the Great shift. I respectfully submit to you that it was Africa, meaning the land mass, which is why Solomon acknowledge I am Black and why the image of God in the burning bush had feet the color of Bronze. Of course, you are free to disregard the Bible, the geological history, the archaeological findings and the Great Shift, if it suits your particular fancy.

well thank you william. I will in fact disregard YOUR interpretation of great shifts and what Solomon said and the color of burning feet to understand that Israel was the birthplace of man because it does suit my fancy.

[tv]

On my way to have lunch with my sister -- everyone have a good afternoon. :seeya:

[GreenIce]

I did not say that the killer planned to implicate Simpson.

I agree that there is evidence from which an inference can be drawn that there were more than three people at Bundy at the time of the murders.

I am just going by the time line as established by the testimony and the phone records, showing what that time line was and explaining what was said in that regard. The testimony about the thumps, only allowed someone to implicate Simpson, imho.

I believe that the glove would have been found somewhere else had there been no knowledge of the thumps.

I am certain one of the two were mistaken about the hot tub incident.

William,

The reason why I question the hot the tub "debate" is because itsn't it possible, that someone knowing this was a major pet peeve with Simpson would know that having it left on will draw Simpson out of his house and to go to Kato's room? Could someone have been monitoring the activites at Rockingham as well as Bundy?

It appears to me that the main goal of the killers, in regards to time, was to have the bodies found before Simpson left for Chicago or to have them found while he was still enroute to Chicago.

There is no evidence that the killers were in any hurry to leave Bundy. They showed no concern for the children or being seen by anyone.

The problem with the phone records in this case is that not all of the ones that should have been entered into evidence, were. We know nothing about Nicole's or Faye's cell phone. We don't have the phone records from the rehab clinic. We know that Judy Brown gave the 11:00 p.m. time to at least to at least 3 people and we know the phone records from one of the Browns' phones shows a phone call from the Brown's house to Nicole's---there is no proof that it was Judy Brown. The younger sister was home, could she have called Nicole's?

I read a bit of Judy's Brown testimony in regards to losing her glasses. She was very, very upset about this and she noticed she did not have them very shortly after she left the Mezzaluna. I do question why she waited to get home before calling Nicole about them. I also have wondered why Mrs. Brown would have taken the time to look up the Mezzaluna's number, then call Nicole about them. The Mezzaluna was Nicole's favorite place at the time of the murders, doesn't make more sense she would call Nicole first, at least for the number?

And what if she did and Nicole never picked up?

[weezer]

without a doubt you rank as one of the most informed posters posting here for some time. You have brought information to the thread that most have never heard of or read.
I see nothing wrong with your style or the way you present your comments so keep up the good work.
martin II

LOL -- I'm afraid I have to agree with this. In fact, I'll go one step further and say never will hear or read unless they see it here! LOL

[William Anthony]

I would like to say something. I think every poster her has his/her own unique style of posting and method of bringing information to the board. For the most part we are able to disagree civilly. I enjoy reading the informative posts of all and even enjoy disagreeing with those that I most often disagree and those that I infrequently disagree. I hope we can all continue in a civil manner as, I guess, I like to disagree. :)

[GreenIce]

ouch! and here I thought we were having indepth dialogue --

FBG,

While I do not enjoy your posts and I find them to be somewhat lacking, I do LOVE your sense of humor. I have to give credit where credit is due, you do have a quick wit.


And I never use those little guys---they scare me!

[William Anthony]

William,

The reason why I question the hot the tub "debate" is because itsn't it possible, that someone knowing this was a major pet peeve with Simpson would know that having it left on will draw Simpson out of his house and to go to Kato's room? Could someone have been monitoring the activites at Rockingham as well as Bundy?

It appears to me that the main goal of the killers, in regards to time, was to have the bodies found before Simpson left for Chicago or to have them found while he was still enroute to Chicago.

There is no evidence that the killers were in any hurry to leave Bundy. They showed no concern for the children or being seen by anyone.

The problem with the phone records in this case is that not all of the ones that should have been entered into evidence, were. We know nothing about Nicole's or Faye's cell phone. We don't have the phone records from the rehab clinic. We know that Judy Brown gave the 11:00 p.m. time to at least to at least 3 people and we know the phone records from one of the Browns' phones shows a phone call from the Brown's house to Nicole's---there is no proof that it was Judy Brown. The younger sister was home, could she have called Nicole's?

I read a bit of Judy's Brown testimony in regards to losing her glasses. She was very, very upset about this and she noticed she did not have them very shortly after she left the Mezzaluna. I do question why she waited to get home before calling Nicole about them. I also have wondered why Mrs. Brown would have taken the time to look up the Mezzaluna's number, then call Nicole about them. The Mezzaluna was Nicole's favorite place at the time of the murders, doesn't make more sense she would call Nicole first, at least for the number?

And what if she did and Nicole never picked up?

GreenIce,

You bring up an interesting point about the hot tub, which I had not considered. I am interested in hearing more, as to the time it was that Simpson made the complaint.

I do believe that it was possible that someone wanted the bodies found before Simpson left for Chicago but that would mean that someone had advanced knowledge of his trip, which narrows the field.

I was only speaking of Park's phone records in regard to the thumps and his Kato sighting. :)

[William Anthony]

FBG,

While I do not enjoy your posts and I find them to be somewhat lacking, I do LOVE your sense of humor. I have to give credit where credit is due, you do have a quick wit.


And I never use those little guys---they scare me!

I like my wine dry. :)

[William Anthony]

well thank you william. I will in fact disregard YOUR interpretation of great shifts and what Solomon said and the color of burning feet to understand that Israel was the birthplace of man because it does suit my fancy.

I did not interpret the great shifts or the Bible nor did I write what Solomon said. You give me far too much credit in your disregard. :)

[martin II]

trying to locate the origin of civilizations first human using the words of the bible is one thing.

Documenting the first humans by finding the location of oldest human bones is another.

if Adam and Eve existed we have not found their bones as yet.

[GreenIce]

without a doubt you rank as one of the most informed posters posting here for some time. You have brought information to the thread that most have never heard of or read.
I see nothing wrong with your style or the way you present your comments so keep up the good work.
martin II

Thanks Martin,

That means a lot to me.

I think it is really schocking to some's systems when they realize that ever phase in this trial is not as "black and white" (nothing to do with race) as the media covered it.

I think it also shocks the system on how much evidence that everyone swears is true really isn't because it can't proved. Like the time of death, who's voices were heard, etc.

Another major factor---people have a tendency to belive that we, the public know every piece of evidence in this case and we do not. We know both sides had witnesses that they did not use and these witnesses were not used because of their past. We know the DA's and defense agreed not to use certain evidence in their case--basically, if you don't use this, we won't use that.

IMO, I do not believe the dog's barking and wailing mean anything unless you take in his other behavior after 11:00 p.m. There is no proof that Nicole and Ron were dead when Park saw Kato or Simpson.

[William Anthony]

On my way to have lunch with my sister -- everyone have a good afternoon. :seeya:

Enjoy. :seeya:

[William Anthony]

trying to locate the origin of civilizations first human using the words of the bible is one thing.

Documenting the first humans by finding the location of oldest human bones is another.

if Adam and Eve existed we have not found their bones as yet.

------------------God's Plan

On and on their weakened tired arms did turn the oar
Against the ocean ran red with ancient blood
Onward toward the foggy shape of a distant shore
As if their tearful eyes did cause the flood.
From the distance rang out a voice unmistakably clear
Strain, strain do not forget the goal
Remember those that struggled, hold the vision dear
You are the youth of those grown old
Draw upon the ancient strength to bolster your will
With vigor fresh continue the struggle, with hope anew
To climb that insurmountable hill
And eventually you will see your arrival at
---------1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

All Manner of insults and accusations did they throw
However they failed to dent his shield
In awe they watched this valliant warrior as his popularity did grow.
In somberness they watched as he climbed the hill
What manner of man is this who marches forward promising change
What they did not know and could not feel
Was that it had been foretold written in the Bible it said the same
It was not theirs that counted but God's will
With all they did and tried they realized it was not adequate to stop
For the Bible, God's words, had sealed the deal
It had been written that before the end of time
--------the bottom shall rise to the top.

[GreenIce]

GreenIce,

You bring up an interesting point about the hot tub, which I had not considered. I am interested in hearing more, as to the time it was that Simpson made the complaint.

I do believe that it was possible that someone wanted the bodies found before Simpson left for Chicago but that would mean that someone had advanced knowledge of his trip, which narrows the field.

I was only speaking of Park's phone records in regard to the thumps and his Kato sighting. :)

William,

I don't know the times, but Simpson first went to Kato's room about the hut tub and then he went back to his room to ask for change and McD.'s trip.

In regards to Park's phone records and Kato's sigthing, what does it matter if Nicole and/or Ron are still alive? Of Nicole is speaking to her mother? If there is proof that Nicole is alive while Parking is making-receiving phones calls make his phone records worthless?

I know of two witnesses who knew about Simpson's trip that time and these two witnesses also knew what time Simpson's flight was that night. Neither of these two witnesses were called by the DA's or Petrocelli.

Simpson, in his statement to the police, he said that he lived his life on planes and travel. It would not be hard to find out his schedule. He made his money as a pitchman, well a good deal of money as one, he was the face of Hertz for years and years. I am sure that Hertz would, like any other corporate sponsered event, would have publicity on who was going to be there.

Another factor to consider is that Nicole did seem to know what Simpson's schedule when it came from him being out of town. As the primary custodian of the kids, she had every right to know when he would be out of town or at least how he could be reached in case there was an emergency. Nicole, it appears to me, had no problem with telling anybody what Simpson's schedule was and I don't mean that in a bad way. She may have been asked to do certain things but she couldn't because she had the kids while Simpson was out of town.

[William Anthony]

William,

I don't know the times, but Simpson first went to Kato's room about the hut tub and then he went back to his room to ask for change and McD.'s trip.

In regards to Park's phone records and Kato's sigthing, what does it matter if Nicole and/or Ron are still alive? Of Nicole is speaking to her mother? If there is proof that Nicole is alive while Parking is making-receiving phones calls make his phone records worthless?

I know of two witnesses who knew about Simpson's trip that time and these two witnesses also knew what time Simpson's flight was that night. Neither of these two witnesses were called by the DA's or Petrocelli.

Simpson, in his statement to the police, he said that he lived his life on planes and travel. It would not be hard to find out his schedule. He made his money as a pitchman, well a good deal of money as one, he was the face of Hertz for years and years. I am sure that Hertz would, like any other corporate sponsered event, would have publicity on who was going to be there.

Another factor to consider is that Nicole did seem to know what Simpson's schedule when it came from him being out of town. As the primary custodian of the kids, she had every right to know when he would be out of town or at least how he could be reached in case there was an emergency. Nicole, it appears to me, had no problem with telling anybody what Simpson's schedule was and I don't mean that in a bad way. She may have been asked to do certain things but she couldn't because she had the kids while Simpson was out of town.

Then in regard to the hot tub, it would appear that, if someone wanted Simpson out of the house, they had planned the murder prior to that and it would mean that Ms. NBS was the target, imho.

I am not saying whether they were alive or not. I was discussing reasonable doubt and why Ms. Shively's testimony was not used and the need of some to want to change when Park saw Kato so as to alter the prosecution's time frame to make Simpson the one that deposited the glove, but it does not fit, imho and educated analysis. If they were alive at eleven, then you are right Simpson could not be the killer.

I agree that Ms. NBS would likely have known his schedule, which may explain the appearance of the Bundy residence at the time of the murders. She could have also told others. Simpson was scheduled to attend a golf event, IIRC. I think that might have been advertised. There are a lot of unanswered questions in this case and I am aware that you have read a lot of books on the case. I have not, other than the one you suggested I read. I did not follow closely anything related to the case after the murder trial. I have learned a lot from you and other posters and hope that you all will continue with the excellent posts.

[martin II]

William and Martin,

Are the two of you making a huge, huge mistake while debating the Park/Kato sightings? Aren't the two of you assuming that Nicole and Ron are both already dead?

Wasn't the real reason why Dr. Golden wasn't called because what time Judy Brown gave about the last phone call, the evidence that two knives were used and all of the "indicators" for time of death led him to believe the murders happened after 11:00 p.m.?

i have concentrated on showing oj had nothing to do with the glove in his walkway. i know the prosecution did not agree with Dr Goldens findings and that we don't know the exact time of death because vanhatter did not call the coroner timely and that Big Ben has questioned the time JB got home and has backed up his claims.

there was a lot of road construction between brentwood and data point that night it may have taken more travel time than normal.

JB knew nicole was a regular at that resturant so why did she called the resturant before nicole is a mystery.

Also since faye said she called nicole at 9pm and talked for 30 minutes, when did JB call nicole. after 9;30, what time did oj call Nicole after JB.

[GreenIce]

Then in regard to the hot tub, it would appear that, if someone wanted Simpson out of the house, they had planned the murder prior to that and it would mean that Ms. NBS was the target, imho.

I am not saying whether they were alive or not. I was discussing reasonable doubt and why Ms. Shively's testimony was not used and the need of some to want to change when Park saw Kato so as to alter the prosecution's time frame to make Simpson the one that deposited the glove, but it does not fit, imho and educated analysis. If they were alive at eleven, then you are right Simpson could not be the killer.

I agree that Ms. NBS would likely have known his schedule, which may explain the appearance of the Bundy residence at the time of the murders. She could have also told others. Simpson was scheduled to attend a golf event, IIRC. I think that might have been advertised. There are a lot of unanswered questions in this case and I am aware that you have read a lot of books on the case. I have not, other than the one you suggested I read. I did not follow closely anything related to the case after the murder trial. I have learned a lot from you and other posters and hope that you all will continue with the excellent posts.

William,

What if the DA's did belive Shively? What if the only thing they questioned was who she saw? What if they believed that who ever was driving the Bronco was on their way to get rid of the evidence--in other words, JS saw an accomplice? IMO, the defense only could have really contested who JS saw--as we all know, for people to identify people of a different race is not as easy as it sounds. What if they believed JS and that she did see Marcus Allen and not Simpson? If JS is telling the truth and it is verified by at least the other driver, then aren't the DA's forced to consider an accomplice? Two white broncos?

[martin II]

Then in regard to the hot tub, it would appear that, if someone wanted Simpson out of the house, they had planned the murder prior to that and it would mean that Ms. NBS was the target, imho.

I am not saying whether they were alive or not. I was discussing reasonable doubt and why Ms. Shively's testimony was not used and the need of some to want to change when Park saw Kato so as to alter the prosecution's time frame to make Simpson the one that deposited the glove, but it does not fit, imho and educated analysis. If they were alive at eleven, then you are right Simpson could not be the killer.

I agree that Ms. NBS would likely have known his schedule, which may explain the appearance of the Bundy residence at the time of the murders. She could have also told others. Simpson was scheduled to attend a golf event, IIRC. I think that might have been advertised. There are a lot of unanswered questions in this case and I am aware that you have read a lot of books on the case. I have not, other than the one you suggested I read. I did not follow closely anything related to the case after the murder trial. I have learned a lot from you and other posters and hope that you all will continue with the excellent posts.

well we know that faye had embeded herself into nicoles like and she did run back and forth between oj and nicole so she would definately know.
i think most of ojs and Nicoles friends knew he was catching the red eye.

[William Anthony]

William,

What if the DA's did belive Shively? What if the only thing they questioned was who she saw? What if they believed that who ever was driving the Bronco was on their way to get rid of the evidence--in other words, JS saw an accomplice? IMO, the defense only could have really contested who JS saw--as we all know, for people to identify people of a different race is not as easy as it sounds. What if they believed JS and that she did see Marcus Allen and not Simpson? If JS is telling the truth and it is verified by at least the other driver, then aren't the DA's forced to consider an accomplice? Two white broncos?

GreenIce,

Ms. Shively was unbelievable. Her testimony amounted to I saw a Black man, be it Marcus, Simpson, Martin or William. The whole problem arises when the Gs want to believe she saw Simpson and, consequently, they must prove Kato wrong about the times he heard the thumps. This is probably the most egregious of circular reasoning, because we believe that Simpson was somewhere else at the time Kato heard the thumps, kato is wrong about the time, because we believe Simpson was somewhere else. This is all I was trying to show and when I supplied them with the testimonies and the phone records, showing it was consistent with Kato's times, they simply chose to say I am wrong, because, if they believe Simpson did both, meaning driving and making the thumps, Kato, the phone records, on which they previously relied, and I have to be wrong.

[GreenIce]

i have concentrated on showing oj had nothing to do with the glove in his walkway. i know the prosecution did not agree with Dr Goldens findings and that we don't know the exact time of death because vanhatter did not call the coroner timely and that Big Ben has questioned the time JB got home and has backed up his claims.

there was a lot of road construction between brentwood and data point that night it may have taken more travel time than normal.

JB knew nicole was a regular at that resturant so why did she called the resturant before nicole is a mystery.

Also since faye said she called nicole at 9pm and talked for 30 minutes, when did JB call nicole. after 9;30, what time did oj call Nicole after JB.

Martin,

The Browns lived in a gated community--what do their time logs show? Isn't the reason you live in a gated community is for privacy and security?

If I remember correctly, Simpson called about 9:00 p.m. to speak with Sydney. I believe this time because he spoke to Sydney. To the best of my knowledge OJ and Nicole were still in a snit with each other and they did not engage in any type of conversation only asking to speak with Sydney. Nicole put Sydney on the phone. That tells me that as angry as Nicole and Oj got with each other, they were able to call a truce, at times when it came to the kids. Nicole could have told Simpson she was sleeping or she was playing with her friend Rachel, she was in the tub or the shower. Nicole let Simpson speak to Sydney.

It has been reported and confirmed that Sydney did hear her mother crying and fighting with her best friend. However, what we don't know if this happened in the same phone call, in other words, was Nicole fighting with her best friend in one call and then crying in another phone call, that was not mommy's best friend. Or was their a second phone call that Nicole was crying while talking to Faye?

When did Rachel's parents' pick her up? What Nicole's state of mind that when they talked to her? Did she appear upset? What was she wearing when she came to the door? Didn't she talk to the parents while Rachel gathered up her things?

Faye, during her book tour kept on giving different times on when she called Nicole. Any error that was brought up in her deposition for the civil trial, she blamed the publisher. If Faye's account of the phone calls are true, then she would not have fought against the phone records being entered into evidence from the rehab center. To the best of my knowledge, no witness from the rehab center has ever come forward to confirm that Faye was on the phone at the time she gave nor did they testify in what condition Faye was in.

I have always been under the impression that when you go into rehab, you are tightly monitored. Wouldn't Faye have to seek permission to use the public phone?

[martin II]

William,

What if the DA's did belive Shively? What if the only thing they questioned was who she saw? What if they believed that who ever was driving the Bronco was on their way to get rid of the evidence--in other words, JS saw an accomplice? IMO, the defense only could have really contested who JS saw--as we all know, for people to identify people of a different race is not as easy as it sounds. What if they believed JS and that she did see Marcus Allen and not Simpson? If JS is telling the truth and it is verified by at least the other driver, then aren't the DA's forced to consider an accomplice? Two white broncos?

Marcus Allen was in la on 6/12
Aneighbor said she saw a black mercedes in front of nicoles house that day
Marcus Allen caught a plane from lax just before oj did on 6/12

[William Anthony]

William,

What if the DA's did belive Shively? What if the only thing they questioned was who she saw? What if they believed that who ever was driving the Bronco was on their way to get rid of the evidence--in other words, JS saw an accomplice? IMO, the defense only could have really contested who JS saw--as we all know, for people to identify people of a different race is not as easy as it sounds. What if they believed JS and that she did see Marcus Allen and not Simpson? If JS is telling the truth and it is verified by at least the other driver, then aren't the DA's forced to consider an accomplice? Two white broncos?

GreenIce,

I am trying to say this as delicately as possible and I do believe that you will understand. There is no doubt in my mind that Simpson's lifestyle made him a target of many.

[GreenIce]

GreenIce,

Ms. Shively was unbelievable. Her testimony amounted to I saw a Black man, be it Marcus, Simpson, Martin or William. The whole problem arises when the Gs want to believe she saw Simpson and, consequently, they must prove Kato wrong about the times he heard the thumps. This is probably the most egregious of circular reasoning, because we believe that Simpson was somewhere else at the time Kato heard the thumps, kato is wrong about the time, because we believe Simpson was somewhere else. This is all I was trying to show and when I supplied them with the testimonies and the phone records, showing it was consistent with Kato's times, they simply chose to say I am wrong, because, if they believe Simpson did both, meaning driving and making the thumps, Kato, the phone records, on which they previously relied, and I have to be wrong.


William,

I am sorry, I understand what you are saying, but as you know, l try to bring up other possibilities on why her testimony wasn't used. The DA's said they did not use her testimony because she sold her story. They didn't say that they believed she lied---they couldn't, if they had the back up witnesses' statement.

My comments about her seeing Marcus Allen--just fold nicely into Faye Resnick's book. JS's descriptions of what she saw the black male do and say, IMO is much more consistent with her seeing Marcus Allen (or another black person) then OJ Simpson.

If Simpson is the killer, he showed no evidence if being in a frenzy at Rockingham, there is no evidence to suggest he ever panicked at Bundy. Why freak out because a car wasn't moving fast enough? Why draw attention to himself by making a scene? Makes no sense, IMO.

[William Anthony]

William,

I am sorry, I understand what you are saying, but as you know, l try to bring up other possibilities on why her testimony wasn't used. The DA's said they did not use her testimony because she sold her story. They didn't say that they believed she lied---they couldn't, if they had the back up witnesses' statement.

My comments about her seeing Marcus Allen--just fold nicely into Faye Resnick's book. JS's descriptions of what she saw the black male do and say, IMO is much more consistent with her seeing Marcus Allen (or another black person) then OJ Simpson.

If Simpson is the killer, he showed no evidence if being in a frenzy at Rockingham, there is no evidence to suggest he ever panicked at Bundy. Why freak out because a car wasn't moving fast enough? Why draw attention to himself by making a scene? Makes no sense, IMO.

GreenIce,

Yes, there were several reasons why Ms. Shively's testimony was not to be believed and I agree with all those you have listed.

[martin II]

Martin,

The Browns lived in a gated community--what do their time logs show? Isn't the reason you live in a gated community is for privacy and security?

If I remember correctly, Simpson called about 9:00 p.m. to speak with Sydney. I believe this time because he spoke to Sydney. To the best of my knowledge OJ and Nicole were still in a snit with each other and they did not engage in any type of conversation only asking to speak with Sydney. Nicole put Sydney on the phone. That tells me that as angry as Nicole and Oj got with each other, they were able to call a truce, at times when it came to the kids. Nicole could have told Simpson she was sleeping or she was playing with her friend Rachel, she was in the tub or the shower. Nicole let Simpson speak to Sydney.

It has been reported and confirmed that Sydney did hear her mother crying and fighting with her best friend. However, what we don't know if this happened in the same phone call, in other words, was Nicole fighting with her best friend in one call and then crying in another phone call, that was not mommy's best friend. Or was their a second phone call that Nicole was crying while talking to Faye?

When did Rachel's parents' pick her up? What Nicole's state of mind that when they talked to her? Did she appear upset? What was she wearing when she came to the door? Didn't she talk to the parents while Rachel gathered up her things?

Faye, during her book tour kept on giving different times on when she called Nicole. Any error that was brought up in her deposition for the civil trial, she blamed the publisher. If Faye's account of the phone calls are true, then she would not have fought against the phone records being entered into evidence from the rehab center. To the best of my knowledge, no witness from the rehab center has ever come forward to confirm that Faye was on the phone at the time she gave nor did they testify in what condition Faye was in.

I have always been under the impression that when you go into rehab, you are tightly monitored. Wouldn't Faye have to seek permission to use the public phone?

faye claimed that she returned nicoles calls to her at 9pm.
most rahabs do not allow incomming phone calls to patients. only out going calls maby one or two for a very small time maby 10 minutes. and only to people put on the approved list.
Family and drug free friends. outgoing call are usually allowed after the first 10 days. but each rehab works differently but most are the same.

[GreenIce]

William,

I agree with you, if G's truly believe everything they post about the "facts" in this case, then are not G's at all. At the very least, they NG's who feel that Simpson may have done it but the DA's did not prove it.

I think it is our duty as Americans, to point this out to them, over and over again. :patriot:

[martin II]

GreenIce,

I am trying to say this as delicately as possible and I do believe that you will understand. There is no doubt in my mind that Simpson's lifestyle made him a target of many.

i believe that if nicole had not interjected herself into ojs gambling business with the mob,she would be living today.

[GreenIce]

faye claimed that she returned nicoles calls to her at 9pm.
most rahabs do not allow incomming phone calls to patients. only out going calls maby one or two for a very small time maby 10 minutes. and only to people put on the approved list.
Family and drug free friends. outgoing call are usually allowed after the first 10 days. but each rehab works differently but most are the same.

Martin,

When I read in Faye's book how they were playing telephone tag all day, my first thought was, where did Faye think she was, in a hotel? She was in a lock down facility, she was monitored from the moment she woke up until the moment she went to bed. Does she really expect us to believe that she had total freedom to make any type of phone calls she wanted--like she would be the first person who ever tried to call someone to get her out or to score some drugs?

Also, if Faye is telling the truth about her drug issues, she would have been angry with Nicole for being at the intervention. She would have been protesting her being in a place where she did not need to be. The tone her phone call would not have been bright eyed and buschy tail, IMO.

There is another point to consider. What would Justin and Sydney say about phone calls between their mother and Faye that day? Was Nicole avoiding Faye's phone calls? Did someone tell Nicole that the next time Faye calls, she better pick up and listen?

[William Anthony]

William,

I agree with you, if G's truly believe everything they post about the "facts" in this case, then are not G's at all. At the very least, they NG's who feel that Simpson may have done it but the DA's did not prove it.

I think it is our duty as Americans, to point this out to them, over and over again. :patriot:

Never let it be said that I am not proud to be an American. :)

[GreenIce]

i believe that if nicole had not interjected herself into ojs gambling business with the mob,she would be living today.

Martin,

I am not saying that Simpson was totally above aboard in all of his business dealings, however, I would think that when Simpson was being accused of the crime and he was told about all the evidence that kept popping up on his estate, he would have led steered his defense toward that path.

Also, to the best of my knowledge, if Nicole, did in fact, know any of this, she never mentioned it anyone else. She never attempted to use this as leverage in her divorce. She never used this when she was angry at Simpson about the IRS. If Nicole did have this knowledge, then her knowledge topped his IRS letter. IMO.

[martin II]

GreenIce,

Ms. Shively was unbelievable. Her testimony amounted to I saw a Black man, be it Marcus, Simpson, Martin or William. The whole problem arises when the Gs want to believe she saw Simpson and, consequently, they must prove Kato wrong about the times he heard the thumps. This is probably the most egregious of circular reasoning, because we believe that Simpson was somewhere else at the time Kato heard the thumps, kato is wrong about the time, because we believe Simpson was somewhere else. This is all I was trying to show and when I supplied them with the testimonies and the phone records, showing it was consistent with Kato's times, they simply chose to say I am wrong, because, if they believe Simpson did both, meaning driving and making the thumps, Kato, the phone records, on which they previously relied, and I have to be wrong.

William you have proved your point clearly.I noticed when i posted about oj kato and the lights to prove park did not see both at the same time they ignored it and started talking about blood at bundy.

Your point has been proven. if the gs ignore it that is their problem.
you can take a horse to the water but you cannot make him drink.

[William Anthony]

William you have proved your point clearly.I noticed when i posted about oj kato and the lights to prove park did not see both at the same time they ignored it and started talking about blood at bundy.

Your point has been proven. if the gs ignore it that is their problem.
you can take a horse to the water but you cannot make him drink.

You are quite correct and some choose to ignore the obvious, because it conflicts with their conclusions. I waited to see if anyone would respond to your point about the lights. I am sure there will be one because it conflicts with the poster's view of the facts.:) I am just having some lighthearted banter with him. :)

[martin II]

Martin,

I am not saying that Simpson was totally above aboard in all of his business dealings, however, I would think that when Simpson was being accused of the crime and he was told about all the evidence that kept popping up on his estate, he would have led steered his defense toward that path.

Also, to the best of my knowledge, if Nicole, did in fact, know any of this, she never mentioned it anyone else. She never attempted to use this as leverage in her divorce. She never used this when she was angry at Simpson about the IRS. If Nicole did have this knowledge, then her knowledge topped his IRS letter. IMO.

i think nicole was not so dumb as to be talking about that business to her friends.Word was that she wanted him to get out before anyone found out that he was involved.

I think oj knew better than to bring the mob into his case. the results could have been worse than going to jail.

Denese brown was even dating the mob guy that testified in the case. Remember the media pictures of her in that Boston hotel.

[martin II]

You are quite correct and some choose to ignore the obvious, because it conflicts with their conclusions. I waited to see if anyone would respond to your point about the lights. I am sure there will be one because it conflicts with the poster's view of the facts.:) I am just having some lighthearted banter with him. :)

Lighhearted banter is also my reason for being here.

[martin II]

Martin,

When I read in Faye's book how they were playing telephone tag all day, my first thought was, where did Faye think she was, in a hotel? She was in a lock down facility, she was monitored from the moment she woke up until the moment she went to bed. Does she really expect us to believe that she had total freedom to make any type of phone calls she wanted--like she would be the first person who ever tried to call someone to get her out or to score some drugs?

Also, if Faye is telling the truth about her drug issues, she would have been angry with Nicole for being at the intervention. She would have been protesting her being in a place where she did not need to be. The tone her phone call would not have been bright eyed and buschy tail, IMO.

There is another point to consider. What would Justin and Sydney say about phone calls between their mother and Faye that day? Was Nicole avoiding Faye's phone calls? Did someone tell Nicole that the next time Faye calls, she better pick up and listen?


faye lied about the calls to nicole.And when she walked out after 30 days she
was still a adict. in her deposition she tried to say she was not freebasing cocain as she thought freebasing involved another drug.she finally had to admit she was freebasing cocain.She was off her rocker.imo

[martin II]

GreenIce,

Yes, there were several reasons why Ms. Shively's testimony was not to be believed and I agree with all those you have listed.

wagnes states that one of the reasons was Clarke wanted JS to move the time she said she saw oj and js refused.Clarke tossed her.

[martin II]

Martin,

When I read in Faye's book how they were playing telephone tag all day, my first thought was, where did Faye think she was, in a hotel? She was in a lock down facility, she was monitored from the moment she woke up until the moment she went to bed. Does she really expect us to believe that she had total freedom to make any type of phone calls she wanted--like she would be the first person who ever tried to call someone to get her out or to score some drugs?

Also, if Faye is telling the truth about her drug issues, she would have been angry with Nicole for being at the intervention. She would have been protesting her being in a place where she did not need to be. The tone her phone call would not have been bright eyed and buschy tail, IMO.

There is another point to consider. What would Justin and Sydney say about phone calls between their mother and Faye that day? Was Nicole avoiding Faye's phone calls? Did someone tell Nicole that the next time Faye calls, she better pick up and listen?


The first objective of any good rehab is to isolate the addict from outside friends and users. most programs do not allow outside contact for about 10 days and then the counselor listens to the calls.
now there are some hollywood BS programs that charge a lot of money and let stars run free but they are just rest stops and do not help the addict.

faye was broke so i think she was in a tough love type place.Medicaid maby.

[William Anthony]

wagnes states that one of the reasons was Clarke wanted JS to move the time she said she saw oj and js refused.Clarke tossed her.

The prosecution kept Vannatter, DF, Mazzola and MF.

[William Anthony]

Lighhearted banter is also my reason for being here.

It should be everyone's, imho.

[martin II]

I did not say that the killer planned to implicate Simpson.

I agree that there is evidence from which an inference can be drawn that there were more than three people at Bundy at the time of the murders.

I am just going by the time line as established by the testimony and the phone records, showing what that time line was and explaining what was said in that regard. The testimony about the thumps, only allowed someone to implicate Simpson, imho.

I believe that the glove would have been found somewhere else had there been no knowledge of the thumps.

I am certain one of the two were mistaken about the hot tub incident.


it may be that when the other detectives were focusing on getting in furhman was focusing on the bronco where he saw a small brown spot and called it blood. The Bronco may have been the selected place for the glove before Kato told furhman about the noise.

told Furhman about the knocks,

[martin II]

I didn't realize Israel was ever considered to be part of Africa -- live and learn I guess.

"The available data appears to suggest that present-day Israel was the central location of the Garden of Eden."

The land now known as israel was arab land before the British gave it to the jews. what three rivers was ever on that land.

[William Anthony]

it may be that when the other detectives were focusing on getting in furhman was focusing on the bronco where he saw a small brown spot and called it blood. The Bronco may have been the selected place for the glove before Kato told furhman about the noise.

told Furhman about the knocks,

Ah, that mysterious glove with no evidence of anyone being back there where it was found before MF.

[martin II]

Ah, that mysterious glove with no evidence of anyone being back there where it was found before MF.

What was Phillips doing while at Rockingham. Furhman Lang and Vanhatter were highlited by the prosecution.

[William Anthony]

What was Phillips doing while at Rockingham. Furhman Lang and Vanhatter were highlited by the prosecution.

An interesting question. Perhaps, he was making the coffee run. :)

[William Anthony]

The land now known as israel was arab land before the British gave it to the jews. what three rivers was ever on that land.

I doubt this will put the matter to rest but it says what I was trying to show. The source of the river is where the Bible says the Garden of Eden was.

http://www.logoschristian.org/eden.html

[martin II]

Ah, that mysterious glove with no evidence of anyone being back there where it was found before MF.

The prosecution could not prove to the jury that oj was back there. every other person stayed far away from that area. Furhman is the only one that has confessed to being back there and he is the only cop that we know had a intrest in nicole and a hatred for oj.

What did the prosecution expect the jury to think when Clarke made all of those promises in her opening.i think the jury sat there and waited for the proof, They also saw the defense rip her witnesses apart. Her last chance was to tell a coheisive story in her closing and she talked about abuse and blew it. She also told the jury believe what i say because i said it. or something like that. Big mistake telling this jury that.

[martin II]

An interesting question. Perhaps, he was making the coffee run. :)

one of the posters on bill pavalica old message board swore that phillips was on look out at the kitchen knook window when furhman took the glove to the walkway.

[William Anthony]

The prosecution could not prove to the jury that oj was back there. every other person stayed far away from that area. Furhman is the only one that has confessed to being back there and he is the only cop that we know had a intrest in nicole and a hatred for oj.

What did the prosecution expect the jury to think when Clarke made all of those promises in her opening.i think the jury sat there and waited for the proof, They also saw the defense rip her witnesses apart. Her last chance was to tell a coheisive story in her closing and she talked about abuse and blew it. She also told the jury believe what i say because i said it. or something like that. Big mistake telling this jury that.

I said it therefore it is so because I said it. :)

[William Anthony]

one of the posters on bill pavalica old message board swore that phillips was on look out at the kitchen knook window when furhman took the glove to the walkway.

Hollering hurry up MF, hurry up, smile.

[martin II]

I said it therefore it is so because I said it. :)

Why would she say that to a bunch of adult women that were looking for proof so they could convict. i guess they may have said to themselves "NO SHE DIDN'T"

[William Anthony]

Why would she say that to a bunch of adult women that were looking for proof so they could convict. i guess they may have said to themselves "NO SHE DIDN'T"

And saying to Darden, what you talking about, Willis.

[tv]

Enjoy. :seeya:Thank you, I had a nice time and the food was yummy. :)

[tv]

martin, I know you know the layout of the Rockingham estate by heart. Where was the Jacuzzi located?

[William Anthony]

Thank you, I had a nice time and the food was yummy. :)

I am glad. I haven't eaten supper yet. Trying to decide what to have with the corn bread. :)

[tv]

I am glad. I haven't eaten supper yet. Trying to decide what to have with the corn bread. :)
A big pot of beans and onions would be good. And maybe some greens on the side. :)

[William Anthony]

A big pot of beans and onions would be good. And maybe some greens on the side. :)

I thought about that but I have to change my eating habits. I love beef and pork (ham in the beans). I shouldn't eat that so I was thinking fish and maybe greens.

[tv]

I thought about that but I have to change my eating habits. I love beef and pork (ham in the beans). I shouldn't eat that so I was thinking fish and maybe greens.Fish would be much healthier. Good choice. I get a craving for beans (Pinto or Great Northern) sometimes but it's not the same without the ham. Enjoy. :)

[tv]

I consulted Wagner's diagrams of the estate and he says he couldn't locate the Jacuzzi but from what Kato said it may be part of the pool. As I was looking for the Jacuzzi I read something interesting. Wagner says that the lights that gave Park the "lights on" impression was Simpson turning on the light in the kitchen before he removed his sweat suit and threw it in the washer. Interesting theory and entirely possible IMO.

[William Anthony]

Fish would be much healthier. Good choice. I get a craving for beans (Pinto or Great Northern) sometimes but it's not the same without the ham. Enjoy. :)

You've got that right. :)

[tv]

The prosecution could not prove to the jury that oj was back there. every other person stayed far away from that area. Furhman is the only one that has confessed to being back there and he is the only cop that we know had a intrest in nicole and a hatred for oj.

What did the prosecution expect the jury to think when Clarke made all of those promises in her opening.i think the jury sat there and waited for the proof, They also saw the defense rip her witnesses apart. Her last chance was to tell a coheisive story in her closing and she talked about abuse and blew it. She also told the jury believe what i say because i said it. or something like that. Big mistake telling this jury that.
The proof was the glove with the blood of OJ Simpson, Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman on it. Det. Fuhrman didn't "confess' to being back behind Kato's room -- it was part of his report of his activities and findings that night. Please tell me what evidence you have that he had an 'interest' in Nicole or a hatred for OJ Simpson? What kind of interest are you talking about?

Speaking of promises, what about the promises that Johnnie Cochran made in his opening statement and failed to follow through on? What happened to Mary Anne Gerchas? What happened to Lenore Walker? What happened to Rosa Lopez? How about when Johnnie Cochran told the jury that the night before the murders OJ Simpson's arthritis was so bad he couldn't deal a hand of cards but wanted them to think he was chipping golf balls at the time of the murders? Looks like the jury didn't mind Cochran's broken promises at all. Wonder why?

[William Anthony]

The proof was the glove with the blood of OJ Simpson, Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman on it. Det. Fuhrman didn't "confess' to being back behind Kato's room -- it was part of his report of his activities and findings that night. Please tell me what evidence you have that he had an 'interest' in Nicole or a hatred for OJ Simpson? What kind of interest are you talking about?

Speaking of promises, what about the promises that Johnnie Cochran made in his opening statement and failed to follow through on? What happened to Mary Anne Gerchas? What happened to Lenore Walker? What happened to Rosa Lopez? How about when Johnnie Cochran told the jury that the night before the murders OJ Simpson's arthritis was so bad he couldn't deal a hand of cards but wanted them to think he was chipping golf balls at the time of the murders? Looks like the jury didn't mind Cochran's broken promises at all. Wonder why?

This is what Ms. Clark said the magnificent one said.

January 31

"MS. CLARK: MR. COCHRAN MADE SOME COMMENTS ABOUT -- FIRST OF ALL, I'M GOING TO TALK ABOUT A VIDEOTAPE THAT HAS OUTTAKES OF THE DEFENDANT MAKING AN EXERCISE VIDEO, AND MR. COCHRAN MADE SOME COMMENTS TO YOU ABOUT THE DEFENDANT'S ALLEGED ARTHRITIC CONDITION. ACCORDING TO HIM THE DEFENDANT'S ARTHRITIC CONDITION BECAME ACUTE SOMETIME AFTER HE HAD PLAYED GOLF AND AFTER HE HAD BEEN SWINGING THE GOLF CLUB ON THE EVENING OF JUNE THE 12TH AT 10:00 P.M."

[tv]

This is what Ms. Clark said the magnificent one said.

January 31

"MS. CLARK: MR. COCHRAN MADE SOME COMMENTS ABOUT -- FIRST OF ALL, I'M GOING TO TALK ABOUT A VIDEOTAPE THAT HAS OUTTAKES OF THE DEFENDANT MAKING AN EXERCISE VIDEO, AND MR. COCHRAN MADE SOME COMMENTS TO YOU ABOUT THE DEFENDANT'S ALLEGED ARTHRITIC CONDITION. ACCORDING TO HIM THE DEFENDANT'S ARTHRITIC CONDITION BECAME ACUTE SOMETIME AFTER HE HAD PLAYED GOLF AND AFTER HE HAD BEEN SWINGING THE GOLF CLUB ON THE EVENING OF JUNE THE 12TH AT 10:00 P.M."

Johnnie Cochran, January 25, 1995 -

WE EXPECT THERE WILL BE TESTIMONY THAT ON THE DATE OF JUNE 12TH, MR. SIMPSON WAS INVOLVED IN THE ACUTE PHASE OF HIS RHEUMATOID ARTHRITIS; AND ON THAT DATE, AFTER HE HAD PLAYED GOLF, THE PROBLEMS WITH HIS HANDS WAS SO SEVERE, HE COULD NOT SHUFFLE THE CARDS WHEN HE PLAYED GIN RUMMY AT THE COUNTRY CLUB THAT AFTERNOON.

[bobaugust]

I have done an extensive analysis of Park's and Kato's testimonies and posted them and it is clear that Kato did not see Simpson until after his first cursory search, since Park testified that he saw a figure, who some believe was Simpson at or near the same time he saw Kato. Therefore, allowing for the two to three minute time line kato waited after hearing the thumps and by the phone records you so heavily rely on, Park would have been on the phone getting his boss' phone number from his mother at the time Kato exited his quarters and explains why Park did not see him until after his return of his first cursory search. I will rely on my analysis, since the testimonies contradict yours. I do not know how far he got down the path nor how far the light from his flashlight reached. However, I am sure that MF claimed to have found a glove that appeared to be moist and shinny after several hours.

As to your second paragraph it adds nothing, imho, to the subject of our discussion.

Your so called extensive analysis is contradicted by both Kaelin and Park’s testimony and your seemingly lack of knowledge as to what both these witnesses said they did. Kato testified to how far he went on both his trips. It doesn’t matter how far the light from the flashlight reached, the fact is that Park testified the light attracted his attention.

The fact is that Park saw Kaelin for the first time that night when Kaelin walked around Simpson’s house after leaving his room two to three minutes after the noises occurred. Park testified that after seeing Kaelin he also saw Simpson walk up and enter his house and lights come on. The time off those sightings by Park was established by his telephone records as shortly before 10:55.

My second paragraph was to explain to you that the testimony by both Kaelin let Park was that Kaelin opened the gate to let Park onto the estate after Kaelin returned from his first trip to the south path.

You keep saying that Park didn’t see Kaelin until after Kaelin returned from his first “cursory” search. That is incorrect. You evidently can’t seem to understand the layout of the Rockingham estate. Park’s limousine was parked at the Ashford gate where he could see Kaelin come from around the house to his left with a flashlight and could also see in front of him Simpson walk up into the light of the front entry and enter his house. Kaelin and Simpson could not see each other.

If you can’t understand that then look at this overhead aerial photo of the estate and the tell us where you think Kaelin was when Park saw him.
http://bobaugust.com/aerialxx.jpg

bobaugust

[martin II]

Your so called extensive analysis is contradicted by both Kaelin and Park’s testimony and your seemingly lack of knowledge as to what both these witnesses said they did. Kato testified to how far he went on both his trips. It doesn’t matter how far the light from the flashlight reached, the fact is that Park testified the light attracted his attention.

The fact is that Park saw Kaelin for the first time that night when Kaelin walked around Simpson’s house after leaving his room two to three minutes after the noises occurred. Park testified that after seeing Kaelin he also saw Simpson walk up and enter his house and lights come on. The time off those sightings by Park was established by his telephone records as shortly before 10:55.

My second paragraph was to explain to you that the testimony by both Kaelin let Park was that Kaelin opened the gate to let Park onto the estate after Kaelin returned from his first trip to the south path.

You keep saying that Park didn’t see Kaelin until after Kaelin returned from his first “cursory” search. That is incorrect. You evidently can’t seem to understand the layout of the Rockingham estate. Park’s limousine was parked at the Ashford gate where he could see Kaelin come from around the house to his left with a flashlight and could also see in front of him Simpson walk up into the light of the front entry and enter his house. Kaelin and Simpson could not see each other.

If you can’t understand that then look at this overhead aerial photo of the estate and the tell us where you think Kaelin was when Park saw him.
http://bobaugust.com/aerialxx.jpg

bobaugust

nope. Park said he saw kato and oj at the same time. when he saw oj go into the house, the porch lights came on. Kato was in the south walkway when the porch lights came on.period.i have looked at the rockingham view.

[tv]

nope. Park said he saw kato and oj at the same time. when he saw oj go into the house, the porch lights came on. Kato was in the south walkway when the porch lights came on.period.i have looked at the rockingham view.
Nope, he saw Kato first and that's when he told Dale St. John 'someone's here.'

[William Anthony]

Your so called extensive analysis is contradicted by both Kaelin and Park’s testimony and your seemingly lack of knowledge as to what both these witnesses said they did. Kato testified to how far he went on both his trips. It doesn’t matter how far the light from the flashlight reached, the fact is that Park testified the light attracted his attention.

The fact is that Park saw Kaelin for the first time that night when Kaelin walked around Simpson’s house after leaving his room two to three minutes after the noises occurred. Park testified that after seeing Kaelin he also saw Simpson walk up and enter his house and lights come on. The time off those sightings by Park was established by his telephone records as shortly before 10:55.

My second paragraph was to explain to you that the testimony by both Kaelin let Park was that Kaelin opened the gate to let Park onto the estate after Kaelin returned from his first trip to the south path.

You keep saying that Park didn’t see Kaelin until after Kaelin returned from his first “cursory” search. That is incorrect. You evidently can’t seem to understand the layout of the Rockingham estate. Park’s limousine was parked at the Ashford gate where he could see Kaelin come from around the house to his left with a flashlight and could also see in front of him Simpson walk up into the light of the front entry and enter his house. Kaelin and Simpson could not see each other.

If you can’t understand that then look at this overhead aerial photo of the estate and the tell us where you think Kaelin was when Park saw him.
http://bobaugust.com/aerialxx.jpg

bobaugust

See post 2700, IIRC. Their testimonies are what they are. Park testified to where he saw Kato and when, which was simultaneously with seeing the figure he believed to be Simpson and Kato had finished his first cursory search. :) The testimonies are what they are.:)

[William Anthony]

Johnnie Cochran, January 25, 1995 -

WE EXPECT THERE WILL BE TESTIMONY THAT ON THE DATE OF JUNE 12TH, MR. SIMPSON WAS INVOLVED IN THE ACUTE PHASE OF HIS RHEUMATOID ARTHRITIS; AND ON THAT DATE, AFTER HE HAD PLAYED GOLF, THE PROBLEMS WITH HIS HANDS WAS SO SEVERE, HE COULD NOT SHUFFLE THE CARDS WHEN HE PLAYED GIN RUMMY AT THE COUNTRY CLUB THAT AFTERNOON.

Is it any wonder there was reasonable doubt? The prosecution could not remember what the magnificent one due to the fact that he had bedazzled them with his magnificence.:)

[tv]

Is it any wonder there was reasonable doubt? The prosecution could not remember what the magnificent one due to the fact that he had bedazzled them with his magnificence.:)He bedazzled them all right but I don't think it was due to his magnificence. That statement is a big, fat contradiction.

[William Anthony]

Nope, he saw Kato first and that's when he told Dale St. John 'someone's here.'

Not according to the testimony. See post 2770, IIRC.

[William Anthony]

He bedazzled them all right but I don't think it was due to his magnificence. That statement is a big, fat contradiction.

It is Ms. Clark that became bedazzled and misrepresented what the magnificent one said. How do you think the jury thought about that?

[William Anthony]

nope. Park said he saw kato and oj at the same time. when he saw oj go into the house, the porch lights came on. Kato was in the south walkway when the porch lights came on.period.i have looked at the rockingham view.

Correct by the testimony.

[tv]

Not according to the testimony. See post 2770, IIRC.

Q. The first person who appeared?

A. From what I noticed, from the back of the house.

Q. And he appeared where, in terms of your field of view?

You're looking straight ahead, in from the car?

A. Yes.

Q. And where did this person appear?

A. To my --

Q. So to your right, to your left?

A. To the left of me, on the edge of the driveway.

Q. Okay.

And can you describe to the jury this person whom you saw appear?

A. It was a blond-hair male, five-ten, 170 pounds.

Q. What did you then say to Dale St. John, without telling us what he
said?

A. I said to him that somebody's here.

Q. And did you say anything else?

[William Anthony]

Perhaps, post 2270 needs reposting.

Park, March 28th

A: HE WAS JUST STANDING THERE, FROM WHAT I OBSERVED.

Q: OKAY. COULD YOU TELL WHERE HE WAS LOOKING OR WHAT HE WAS DOING?

A: HE LOOKED AT ME AND THEN HE JUST -- HE STARTED TO LOOK, YOU KNOW, IN THE AREA OF THE ROCKINGHAM DRIVEWAY.

Q: NOW, WHEN HE WAS LOOKING AT YOU, WHERE WERE YOU?

A: I WAS INSIDE THE CAR ON THE PHONE.

Q: TALKING TO YOUR BOSS?

A: YES.

Q: HOW LONG -- NOW, AT THE SAME TIME THAT YOU SAW KATO KAELIN IN THE SIDE YARD, DID YOU SEE ANYTHING ELSE?

A: YES. I SAW A FIGURE COME DOWN -- WELL, NOT COME DOWN, BUT I SAW A FIGURE COME INTO THE ENTRANCEWAY OF THE HOUSE JUST ABOUT WHERE THE -- WHERE THE DRIVEWAY STARTS.

Kato, March 22nd

"Q: BY MS. CLARK: ALL RIGHT. WHEN YOU GOT BACK TO THE CAR AFTER GOING OUT THE SECOND TIME TO THE SOUTH PATHWAY, YOU SAID YOU WENT BACK TOWARD THE LIMO?

A: SAY THAT -- THE QUESTION AGAIN.

Q: AFTER YOU LET THE LIMO DRIVER INTO THE PROPERTY, YOU HAD CONVERSATION WITH HIM, YOU INDICATED YOU WENT BACK AROUND THE GARAGE TO THE SOUTH PATHWAY AGAIN?" (this contradicts Park's testimony)

"A: YES.

Q: AND YOU STOPPED THREE FEET BEFORE THE SECOND GATE?

A: ABOUT, YES.

Q: DO YOU RECALL THAT?

A: (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.)

Q: THEN YOU SAID YOU WALKED BACK OUT AROUND THE GARAGE, YOU SAW THAT DARK KNAPSACK, THEN WHAT DID YOU DO?

A: UMM, WELL, THERE IS THREE OF US OUTSIDE NOW SO I --

Q: YOU SAW THE DEFENDANT?

A: OKAY. WELL, THREE OF US, YES; O.J., MYSELF AND THE DRIVER.

Q: WHERE WAS HE?

A: JUST LIKE OUTSIDE ON THE DRIVEWAY.

Q: OKAY.

A: AND I THINK THE DOOR WAS OPENED. I DON'T -- THE FRONT DOOR I THOUGHT WAS OPENED. I DON'T --

Q: OKAY. DID YOU HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH THE DEFENDANT WHEN YOU SAW HIM THERE?

A: YES.

Q: WHAT DID YOU SAY?

A: WELL, I WAS TELLING HIM ABOUT THIS NOISE I HEARD. I SAID, "O.J., I HEARD THIS NOISE AND I THOUGHT IT WAS AN EARTHQUAKE AND I THOUGHT MAYBE SOMEONE IS BACK THERE" AND I TOLD HIM I WAS GOING TO INVESTIGATE IT AND I HAD A LOUSY FLASHLIGHT.

Q: OKAY. AND THEN WHAT?

A: AND SO I ASKED THE LIMO DRIVER, I SAID, "DO YOU HAVE A BETTER FLASHLIGHT?" AND HE CHECKED AND HE LOOKED AROUND AND HE DIDN'T. AND THEN I SAID, "O.J., DO WE HAVE A BETTER FLASHLIGHT?" AND, UMM, WHEN I TOLD HIM ABOUT THE NOISE, HE WAS GOING TO TAKE ONE WAY, I WAS GOING TO GO ANOTHER WAY, BUT THAT IS WHEN I SAID, "WE HAVE THIS LOUSY FLASHLIGHT, WE NEED ANOTHER ONE" AND SO HE WAS GOING TO GO INSIDE AND CHECK.

Q: AND THEN WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?

A: OKAY. SO HE WENT INSIDE THE HOUSE, I FOLLOWED BEHIND, AND WE GOT TOWARDS THE KITCHEN AREA AND I WAS KIND OF IN THE FRONT DOOR ENTRANCE BEHIND HIM, BUT NOT YET IN THE KITCHEN, AND IT WAS -- I DIDN'T LOOK, BUT HE SAID, "IS IT THAT LATE?" HE SAID WE DIDN'T HAVE TIME AND WE DIDN'T GET THE FLASHLIGHT SO HE HAD TO CATCH THE FLIGHT.

Q: OKAY. NOW, AT SOME POINT AFTER YOU CAME BACK FROM YOUR SECOND TRIP TO THE SOUTH PATHWAY, AFTER THAT POINT, DID YOU HELP TO LOAD BAGS INTO THE CAR?

A: YEAH. I PUT THE GOLF BAG IN ALREADY AND I WAS GOING TO GO GET THE KNAPSACK TO PUT IN. "

[tv]

Allan Park's testimony is that he saw Kato Kaelin first. You can try to twist is around all you want but that's exactly what he said.

[William Anthony]

Allan Park's testimony is that he saw Kato Kaelin first. You can try to twist is around all you want but that's exactly what he said.

See post 2684.

"Q OKAY.
AND HOW -- IN RELATIONSHIP TO WHEN YOU SAW KATO KAELIN, WHEN DID YOU FIRST SEE THIS PERSON?
A IT WAS JUST -- IT WAS ALMOST SIMULTANEOUSLY. IT WAS SECONDS AFTER I SAW HIM.

Q AND THIS SIX-FOOT 200-POUND AFRICAN AMERICAN PERSON IN ALL DARK CLOTHING, WAS THIS PERSON MOVING QUICKLY OR SLOWLY?
A NOT QUICKLY, NOT SLOWLY, A GOOD PACE WALK IT SEEMED TO BE.
Q AND MOVING IN WHAT DIRECTION, SIR?
A INTO THE HOUSE OR TOWARD THE HOUSE.

Q AND WHEN YOU SAW THAT PERSON, DID THAT PERSON WALK INTO THE ENTRANCE?
A YES.
Q AFTER THAT PERSON WALKED INTO THE ENTRANCE, WHAT DID YOU DO?
A I THEN PROCEEDED TO -- WELL, I WAS STILL TALKING TO DALE AT THE SAME TIME. I SAID "SOMEBODY'S HERE."
HE SAID, "FINE, FINISH THE JOB, TAKE HIM TO THE AIRPORT AND I WILL SEE YOU TOMORROW" OR WHATEVER. I HUNG UP THE PHONE AND I STILL WAITED ANOTHER -- IT WAS ABOUT ANOTHER THIRTY SECONDS OR SO BEFORE I GOT OUT OF THE CAR, BUT I WAS STILL WAITING FOR SOME SOMEBODY TO COME OPEN THE GATE. I FIGURED SOMEBODY WAS GOING TO COME OPEN THE GATE FOR ME. THEY STILL DIDN'T."

The testimony is what it is and I understand if it confuses you.

[tv]

See post 2684.

"Q OKAY.
AND HOW -- IN RELATIONSHIP TO WHEN YOU SAW KATO KAELIN, WHEN DID YOU FIRST SEE THIS PERSON?
A IT WAS JUST -- IT WAS ALMOST SIMULTANEOUSLY. IT WAS SECONDS AFTER I SAW HIM.

Q AND THIS SIX-FOOT 200-POUND AFRICAN AMERICAN PERSON IN ALL DARK CLOTHING, WAS THIS PERSON MOVING QUICKLY OR SLOWLY?
A NOT QUICKLY, NOT SLOWLY, A GOOD PACE WALK IT SEEMED TO BE.
Q AND MOVING IN WHAT DIRECTION, SIR?
A INTO THE HOUSE OR TOWARD THE HOUSE.

Q AND WHEN YOU SAW THAT PERSON, DID THAT PERSON WALK INTO THE ENTRANCE?
A YES.
Q AFTER THAT PERSON WALKED INTO THE ENTRANCE, WHAT DID YOU DO?
A I THEN PROCEEDED TO -- WELL, I WAS STILL TALKING TO DALE AT THE SAME TIME. I SAID "SOMEBODY'S HERE."
HE SAID, "FINE, FINISH THE JOB, TAKE HIM TO THE AIRPORT AND I WILL SEE YOU TOMORROW" OR WHATEVER. I HUNG UP THE PHONE AND I STILL WAITED ANOTHER -- IT WAS ABOUT ANOTHER THIRTY SECONDS OR SO BEFORE I GOT OUT OF THE CAR, BUT I WAS STILL WAITING FOR SOME SOMEBODY TO COME OPEN THE GATE. I FIGURED SOMEBODY WAS GOING TO COME OPEN THE GATE FOR ME. THEY STILL DIDN'T."

The testimony is what it is and I understand if it confuses you.I'm not confused and I don't appreciate you characterizing me as being confused. Allan Park saw Kato Kaelin first. You can't change the testimony.

[William Anthony]

I'm not confused and I don't appreciate you characterizing me as being confused. Allan Park saw Kato Kaelin first. You can't change the testimony.

Now my dear woman,

I did not say you were confused. I said I could understand if the testimony confuses you. You posted that he said "Somebody's here" when he saw Kato. However, he must have said it twice according to his testimony, because he said he said it when he saw the Black figure. If you are not confused by his testimony, then allow me to be confused for you.:)

[martin II]

Nope, he saw Kato first and that's when he told Dale St. John 'someone's here.'

http://www.wagnerandson.com/images/2rockham.jpg

tv
this is a better link to the rockingham layout.
You can see Katos room and judge the walking distance to all points for yourself.

Park testified that he saw a AA walk into the front door and the lights came on. He said someone home. it was the porch lights that oj turned on from inside the house.

Look at the layout. kato walked from his room past B .C is the front door.Kato said that when he walked past C the front door the porch/coach lights were not on.

Kato continued to walk to behind the garage to the south walkway to i think
H He turned around and walked back pass C the front door and he testified that this time the porch/coach lightrs were ON

My point is if Park is correct and he did see the AA walk into the house and
the lights came on then the lights came on when Kato was at or near H in the south walkway.


it is obvious that when Kato walked past the door the first time Oj came down and deposited the two duffle bags, moved the golf bag and walked back
into the house and Park saw him and Park saw the lights come on.

When Kato returned from the garage area a moment or two later he saw the lights on that oj turned when Park saw him go into the house and Park said someone home.

I posted Katos testimony on the lights earlier.imo

[William Anthony]

http://www.wagnerandson.com/images/2rockham.jpg

tv
this is a better link to the rockingham layout.
You can see Katos room and judge the walking distance to all points for yourself.

Park testified that he saw a AA walk into the front door and the lights came on. He said someone home. it was the porch lights that oj turned on from inside the house.

Look at the layout. kato walked from his room past B .C is the front door.Kato said that when he walked past C the front door the porch/coach lights were not on.

Kato continued to walk to behind the garage to the south walkway to i think
H He turned around and walked back pass C the front door and he testified that this time the porch/coach lightrs were ON

My point is if Park is correct and he did see the AA walk into the house and
the lights came on then the lights came on when Kato was at or near H in the south walkway.


it is obvious that when Kato walked past the door the first time Oj came down and deposited the two duffle bags, moved the golf bag and walked back
into the house and Park saw him and Park saw the lights come on.

When Kato returned from the garage area a moment or two later he saw the lights on that oj turned when Park saw him go into the house and Park said someone home.

I posted Katos testimony on the lights earlier.imo

Martin,

I thought Park was driving a limo, not hovering above in a jet or helicopter.:)

[tv]

Now my dear woman,

I did not say you were confused. I said I could understand if the testimony confuses you. You posted that he said "Somebody's here" when he saw Kato. However, he must have said it twice according to his testimony, because he said he said it when he saw the Black figure. If you are not confused by his testimony, then allow me to be confused for you.:)

You might be confused because I assure you I'm not. He was asked who was the first person he saw and he described Kato unless you think OJ Simpson is blonde haired and 170 pounds. He obviously saw OJ Simpson crossing the driveway seconds after he saw Kato but he saw Kato first.

[bobaugust]

See post 2700, IIRC. Their testimonies are what they are. Park testified to where he saw Kato and when, which was simultaneously with seeing the figure he believed to be Simpson and Kato had finished his first cursory search. :) The testimonies are what they are.:)

William, you are wrong. Park first saw Kaelin when Kaelin came around the house with a flashlight to Park’s left two to three minutes after the noises occurred on his back wall. Kaelin was on his way to his first search. That time is documented by Park’s telephone records. Both of Kaelin’s searches were “cursory” since he never made it far enough down the south path either time he went back there to see behind his room.

bobaugust

[weezer]

Ms. Clark: At some point during your phone conversation with dale st. John did something attract your attention?

Mr. Park: Yes. A white male walked from behind the house area on a pathway and he had a flashlight in his hand and he stopped -- he stopped before he got to the driveway.

Ms. Clark: Okay.

Mr. Park: So i -- i told dale that, you know, somebody is home.

******

ms. Clark: And that person that you are describing, have you since learned what his name is?

Mr. Park: Yes.

Ms. Clark: And what is his name?

Mr. Park: Kato.

[weezer]

Ms. Clark: When that person walked into the entrance of the house, did you notice whether there was any change in the lighting in the house?

Mr. Park: Some lights came on downstairs, yes.

[tv]

http://www.wagnerandson.com/images/2rockham.jpg

tv
this is a better link to the rockingham layout.
You can see Katos room and judge the walking distance to all points for yourself.

Park testified that he saw a AA walk into the front door and the lights came on. He said someone home. it was the porch lights that oj turned on from inside the house.

Look at the layout. kato walked from his room past B .C is the front door.Kato said that when he walked past C the front door the porch/coach lights were not on.

Kato continued to walk to behind the garage to the south walkway to i think
H He turned around and walked back pass C the front door and he testified that this time the porch/coach lightrs were ON

My point is if Park is correct and he did see the AA walk into the house and
the lights came on then the lights came on when Kato was at or near H in the south walkway.


it is obvious that when Kato walked past the door the first time Oj came down and deposited the two duffle bags, moved the golf bag and walked back
into the house and Park saw him and Park saw the lights come on.

When Kato returned from the garage area a moment or two later he saw the lights on that oj turned when Park saw him go into the house and Park said someone home.

I posted Katos testimony on the lights earlier.imo

It's unbelievable to me how you've twisted the testimony. :eek:

[William Anthony]

William, you are wrong. Park first saw Kaelin when Kaelin came around the house with a flashlight to Park’s left two to three minutes after the noises occurred on his back wall. Kaelin was on his way to his first search. That time is documented by Park’s telephone records. Both of Kaelin’s searches were “cursory” since he never made it far enough down the south path either time he went back there to see behind his room.

bobaugust

See post 2270, the testimonies are what they are and the testimonies about the lights confirm that. Kato had a flashlight the whole time he was outside, according to the testimony. I have never said that both his searches weren't cursory. I just delineated the two. Kato had finished his first cursory search at the only time he was outside with Simpson and that would have been simultaneous to Simpson putting the knapsack down and going in the house. That is why Kato saw the knapsack after his first cursory search. Simpson went in turned the lights on did something and came back out. The testimonies show that the only time Park could have seen Kato and Simpson is after Kato's first cursory search. You may choose to disregard it because you believe it contradicts your views but the testimonies are what they are.:)

[William Anthony]

Ms. Clark: At some point during your phone conversation with dale st. John did something attract your attention?

Mr. Park: Yes. A white male walked from behind the house area on a pathway and he had a flashlight in his hand and he stopped -- he stopped before he got to the driveway.

Ms. Clark: Okay.

Mr. Park: So i -- i told dale that, you know, somebody is home.

******

ms. Clark: And that person that you are describing, have you since learned what his name is?

Mr. Park: Yes.

Ms. Clark: And what is his name?

Mr. Park: Kato.

Q AND WHEN YOU SAW THAT PERSON, DID THAT PERSON WALK INTO THE ENTRANCE?
A YES.
Q AFTER THAT PERSON WALKED INTO THE ENTRANCE, WHAT DID YOU DO?
A I THEN PROCEEDED TO -- WELL, I WAS STILL TALKING TO DALE AT THE SAME TIME. I SAID "SOMEBODY'S HERE."
HE SAID, "FINE, FINISH THE JOB, TAKE HIM TO THE AIRPORT AND I WILL SEE YOU TOMORROW" OR WHATEVER. I HUNG UP THE PHONE AND I STILL WAITED ANOTHER -- IT WAS ABOUT ANOTHER THIRTY SECONDS OR SO BEFORE I GOT OUT OF THE CAR, BUT I WAS STILL WAITING FOR SOME SOMEBODY TO COME OPEN THE GATE. I FIGURED SOMEBODY WAS GOING TO COME OPEN THE GATE FOR ME. THEY STILL DIDN'T."

The testimony is what it is and I understand if it confuses you.

[William Anthony]

The testimonies are what they are-reasonable doubt, reasonable doubt, reasonable doubt.

[tv]

You are the only one confused. You take testimony that is clear cut and try to make something else out of it then what was intended by the witness. It's very hard to have a civil discussion when you do this.

[weezer]

Q AND WHEN YOU SAW THAT PERSON, DID THAT PERSON WALK INTO THE ENTRANCE?
A YES.
Q AFTER THAT PERSON WALKED INTO THE ENTRANCE, WHAT DID YOU DO?
A I THEN PROCEEDED TO -- WELL, I WAS STILL TALKING TO DALE AT THE SAME TIME. I SAID "SOMEBODY'S HERE."
HE SAID, "FINE, FINISH THE JOB, TAKE HIM TO THE AIRPORT AND I WILL SEE YOU TOMORROW" OR WHATEVER. I HUNG UP THE PHONE AND I STILL WAITED ANOTHER -- IT WAS ABOUT ANOTHER THIRTY SECONDS OR SO BEFORE I GOT OUT OF THE CAR, BUT I WAS STILL WAITING FOR SOME SOMEBODY TO COME OPEN THE GATE. I FIGURED SOMEBODY WAS GOING TO COME OPEN THE GATE FOR ME. THEY STILL DIDN'T."

The testimony is what it is and I understand if it confuses you.

I'm not at all confused and you are right -- the testimony is what it is. unfortunately, you've obviously misunderstood what you've read.

[tv]

The testimonies are what they are-reasonable doubt, reasonable doubt, reasonable doubt.More like excuses, excuses, excuses.

[William Anthony]

You are the only one confused. You take testimony that is clear cut and try to make something else out of it then what was intended by the witness. It's very hard to have a civil discussion when you do this.

It is hard to have a civil discussion when a poster will not admit what is clear in the testimony.

"Q AFTER THAT PERSON WALKED INTO THE ENTRANCE, WHAT DID YOU DO?
A I THEN PROCEEDED TO -- WELL, I WAS STILL TALKING TO DALE AT THE SAME TIME. I SAID "SOMEBODY'S HERE."

It is clear by this testimony that he said "somebody's here" after he saw the Black figure walk into the entrance to the home. The statement in your post is not as clear as it asks what did he say next not as to when he said it. I am not trying to make testimony into something it isn't. I am showing you that we can not jump to conclusions, unless we are ready to change them when the evidence is put forth. An open heart and receptive mind will take you farther than you dreamed.

[William Anthony]

More like excuses, excuses, excuses.

No excuses necessary as the testimonies are what they are. :)

[William Anthony]

I'm not at all confused and you are right -- the testimony is what it is. unfortunately, you've obviously misunderstood what you've read.

Quite to the contrary, I read for myself and form my own conclusions so that I will not be easily led astray.

"Q AFTER THAT PERSON WALKED INTO THE ENTRANCE, WHAT DID YOU DO?
A I THEN PROCEEDED TO -- WELL, I WAS STILL TALKING TO DALE AT THE SAME TIME. I SAID "SOMEBODY'S HERE."

[tv]

Quite to the contrary, I read for myself and form my own conclusions so that I will not be easily led astray.

"Q AFTER THAT PERSON WALKED INTO THE ENTRANCE, WHAT DID YOU DO?
A I THEN PROCEEDED TO -- WELL, I WAS STILL TALKING TO DALE AT THE SAME TIME. I SAID "SOMEBODY'S HERE."

Q. The first person who appeared?

A. From what I noticed, from the back of the house.

Q. And he appeared where, in terms of your field of view?

You're looking straight ahead, in from the car?

A. Yes.

Q. And where did this person appear?

A. To my --

Q. So to your right, to your left?

A. To the left of me, on the edge of the driveway.

Q. Okay.

And can you describe to the jury this person whom you saw appear?

A. It was a blond-hair male, five-ten, 170 pounds.

Q. What did you then say to Dale St. John, without telling us what he
said?

A. I said to him that somebody's here.

Q. And did you say anything else?

[William Anthony]

Q. The first person who appeared?

A. From what I noticed, from the back of the house.

Q. And he appeared where, in terms of your field of view?

You're looking straight ahead, in from the car?

A. Yes.

Q. And where did this person appear?

A. To my --

Q. So to your right, to your left?

A. To the left of me, on the edge of the driveway.

Q. Okay.

And can you describe to the jury this person whom you saw appear?

A. It was a blond-hair male, five-ten, 170 pounds.

Q. What did you then say to Dale St. John, without telling us what he
said?

A. I said to him that somebody's here.

Q. And did you say anything else?

Your post was that he said somebody's here when he saw Kato. However, you post only states what he said next. The when of what he said comes in my post where he says he said somebody's home after he saw the Black figure walk into the entrance which was nearly simultaneous to seeing Kato. That is how we know that Kato had finished his first cursory search, seen the knapsack and was proceeding to let Park in, when Park first saw him.

[tv]

Your post was that he said somebody's here when he saw Kato. However, you post only states what he said next. The when of what he said comes in my post where he says he said somebody's home after he saw the Black figure walk into the entrance which was nearly simultaneous to seeing Kato. That is how we know that Kato had finished his first cursory search, seen the knapsack and was proceeding to let Park in, when Park first saw him.

Q. Had you seen those lights illuminated before the person went into
the house?

A. No, I didn't.

Q. Okay.

And when you saw the lights illuminate, were you still finishing up
your call with Mr. St. John?

A. Yes.

Q. How many seconds after you saw the person go in the house were you
still on the phone with Mr. St. John?

A. I don't remember that.

Q. Did you even mention to St. John that you saw this person?

A. No.

[martin II]

I'm not confused and I don't appreciate you characterizing me as being confused. Allan Park saw Kato Kaelin first. You can't change the testimony.

TV

Williams post is clear i think.
Park was talking about the 200 lb AA when he said someone home in his testimony.

[tv]

TV

Williams post is clear i think.
Park was talking about the 200 lb AA when he said someone home in his testimony.

He states very clearly that he's talking about the 170 lb Caucasian. What don't you understand about his testimony when he says he didn't tell St. John that he saw the black male?

[William Anthony]

Q. Had you seen those lights illuminated before the person went into
the house?

A. No, I didn't.

Q. Okay.

And when you saw the lights illuminate, were you still finishing up
your call with Mr. St. John?

A. Yes.

Q. How many seconds after you saw the person go in the house were you
still on the phone with Mr. St. John?

A. I don't remember that.

Q. Did you even mention to St. John that you saw this person?

A. No.

What pray tell is your point? He said that he told St. John after seeing the Black figure walk into the entrance somebody's here. He never told St. John that he saw a White person either.

[tv]

What pray tell is your point? He said that he told St. John after seeing the Black figure walk into the entrance somebody's here. He never told St. John that he saw a White person either.

No, but he told the jury that he said 'somebody's here' after seeing Kato. You're the one that's been arguing with bobaugust and me over this miniscule point. Suddenly, you don't get the point?

[William Anthony]

He states very clearly that he's talking about the 170 lb Caucasian. What don't you understand about his testimony when he says he didn't tell St. John that he saw the black male?

So he thought Simpson was White? He states when he told his boss somebody's here and who he saw walk into the entrance.

"Q AFTER THAT PERSON WALKED INTO THE ENTRANCE, WHAT DID YOU DO?
A I THEN PROCEEDED TO -- WELL, I WAS STILL TALKING TO DALE AT THE SAME TIME. I SAID "SOMEBODY'S HERE."

[martin II]

Q. Had you seen those lights illuminated before the person went into
the house?

A. No, I didn't.

Q. Okay.

And when you saw the lights illuminate, were you still finishing up
your call with Mr. St. John?

A. Yes.

Q. How many seconds after you saw the person go in the house were you
still on the phone with Mr. St. John?

A. I don't remember that.

Q. Did you even mention to St. John that you saw this person?

A. No.


that is not what he said in other testimony.

He said her was talking to st John and he saw the AA Walk into the door and the lights came on and he told St jOHN someone is home And ST john to him to go on and go to the airport.
So i don't know why he said he did not telL ST john someone home when he saw to AA

[GreenIce]

The proof was the glove with the blood of OJ Simpson, Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman on it. Det. Fuhrman didn't "confess' to being back behind Kato's room -- it was part of his report of his activities and findings that night. Please tell me what evidence you have that he had an 'interest' in Nicole or a hatred for OJ Simpson? What kind of interest are you talking about?

Speaking of promises, what about the promises that Johnnie Cochran made in his opening statement and failed to follow through on? What happened to Mary Anne Gerchas? What happened to Lenore Walker? What happened to Rosa Lopez? How about when Johnnie Cochran told the jury that the night before the murders OJ Simpson's arthritis was so bad he couldn't deal a hand of cards but wanted them to think he was chipping golf balls at the time of the murders? Looks like the jury didn't mind Cochran's broken promises at all. Wonder why?

TV,

I know you don't respond to my posts but Fuhrman did not complete any reports at Rockingham, he was not mentioned in any of the reports that he was the one who found the glove---at the defense hit hard on that, as they should have.

Why would the defense call Dr. Walker when the DA's never put a DV expert on the stand? Isn't that the real question? In all fairness to both sides, the witnesses the state did put on did on were not poweful witnesses at all when it came to DV. The defense did not have to put an expert on it.
Besides, the defense had an expert in the field of DV as well, Barry Scheck.

Marcia Clark used JS in the grand jury, she was not called during the trial because Clark said that she lied about selling her story. I think any DA or defense lawyer would be insane to call a witness to the stand if they came to find out that they had more baggage then the local airports.

Also, the defense didn't need MAG, they already raised more then reasonable doubt on the timeline. Rosa Lopez's testimony was never proven to be untrue, it was the BP who screwed up that in regards to the time. However, her most important testimony was what she heard after Simpson had left for Chicago.

Also, why didn't Fuhrman write a report that he "interviewed" Rosa Lopez? Don't you find it odd that Fuhrman just happened to pick the only house and the only person who heard something that night?

The condition Simpson has is the same condition my sister has, it is very possible that in the space of a few hours, something they couldn't do with their hands in the morning is something they can do in the evening. It all depends on the medication they take and how long it takes affect. Weather also affects it.

Please note, the DA's did not even attempt to discredit Simpson on this issue. There were probably too many witnesses who would have said that the couldn't. Also, swing a club does not take the same hand movements as it does to shuffle cards.

[tv]

that is not what he said in other testimony.

He said her was talking to st John and he saw the AA Walk into the door and the lights came on and he told St jOHN someone is home And ST john to him to go on and go to the airport.
So i don't know why he said he did not telL ST john someone home when he saw to AA

He said it after he saw Kato. That's his civil trial testimony whether you want to accept it or not. I'm not arguing about it anymore so twist it all you like.

[tv]

TV,

I know you don't respond to my posts but Fuhrman did not complete any reports at Rockingham, he was not mentioned in any of the reports that he was the one who found the glove---at the defense hit hard on that, as they should have.

Why would the defense call Dr. Walker when the DA's never put a DV expert on the stand? Isn't that the real question? In all fairness to both sides, the witnesses the state did put on did on were not poweful witnesses at all.

Marcia Clark used JS in the grand jury, she was not called during the trial because Clark said that she lied about selling her story. I think any DA or defense lawyer would be insane to call a witness to the stand if they came to find out that they had more baggage then the local airports.

Also, the defense didn't need MAG, they already raised more then reasonable doubt on the timeline. Rosa Lopez's testimony was never proven to be untrue, it was the BP who screwed up that in regards to the time. However, her most important testimony was what she heard after Simpson had left for Chicago.

Also, why didn't Fuhrman write a report that he "interviewed" Rosa Lopez? Don't you find it odd that Fuhrman just happened to pick the only house and the only person who heard something that night?

The condition Simpson has is the same condition my sister has, it is very possible that in the space of a few hours, something they couldn't do with their hands in the morning is something they can do in the evening. It all depends on the medication they take and how long it takes affect. Weather also affects it.

Please note, the DA's did not even attempt to discredit Simpson on this issue. There were probably too many witnesses who would have said that the couldn't. Also, swing a club does not take the same hand movements as it does to shuffle cards.

I'm sure everything you've just said is 100% accurate. I won't even mention the fact that Rosa Lopez was so lacking in credibility that the National Enquirer wouldn't even use her. I'm sure I'm wrong or confused.

[martin II]

He states very clearly that he's talking about the 170 lb Caucasian. What don't you understand about his testimony when he says he didn't tell St. John that he saw the black male?

He testified that he was talking to st john and he saw the AA walk into the house and the lights cam on.He then told St John someone is home.
i don't know why you are trying to offer the idea that when he saw the AA
amd told ST jOHN someone home he was talking about seeing Kato.

[William Anthony]

No, but he told the jury that he said 'somebody's here' after seeing Kato. You're the one that's been arguing with bobaugust and me over this miniscule point. Suddenly, you don't get the point?

This is you statement, my dear woman.

Originally Posted by tvdinner View Post
Nope, he saw Kato first and that's when he told Dale St. John 'someone's here.'

I have not argued that point with bobaugust as it was you that made the statement. Bobaugust and I were debating the time of the thumps. Your statement is what caused the discussion between you and me. The statement that we discussed was between you and me, with the assistance of Fbgweezer and Martin.:)

[GreenIce]

that is not what he said in other testimony.

He said her was talking to st John and he saw the AA Walk into the door and the lights came on and he told St jOHN someone is home And ST john to him to go on and go to the airport.
So i don't know why he said he did not telL ST john someone home when he saw to AA

Martin,

I know you enjoy the debate and banter as William does on these issues but are you convinced that both Ron and Nicole were dead when Park saw Kato and the AA?

I don't believe they were---or should I say, the DA's never presented any evidence that they were in fact dead. IMO.

[martin II]

He said it after he saw Kato. That's his civil trial testimony whether you want to accept it or not. I'm not arguing about it anymore so twist it all you like.

What does this mean to you.
I saw the AA go into the house and the lights came on.that was his thoughts to himself but immediately when he saw this he told St John 'SOMEONE IS HOME" he could not have been talking about anyone but the AA

This has always been the problem with park. He says one thing in one testimony and then after prompting by Clarke he he gets on the stand and testifies to something else to fit what she wants to correct what he said that was not help the prosecution. That may be why the jury did not believe him.

[William Anthony]

No, but he told the jury that he said 'somebody's here' after seeing Kato. You're the one that's been arguing with bobaugust and me over this miniscule point. Suddenly, you don't get the point?

If you had said after seeing Kato we might not have had the discussion, emphasis on might.:) However, you said that when he said somebody's here.

[martin II]

Martin,

I know you enjoy the debate and banter as William does on these issues but are you convinced that both Ron and Nicole were dead when Park saw Kato and the AA?

I don't believe they were---or should I say, the DA's never presented any evidence that they were in fact dead. IMO.

No i don't believe it because there is no proof that she was.

[tv]

If you had said after seeing Kato we might not have had the discussion, emphasis on might.:) However, you said that when he said somebody's here.
Okay, William.

[tv]

What does this mean to you.
I saw the AA go into the house and the lights came on.that was his thoughts to himself but immediately when he saw this he told St John 'SOMEONE IS HOME" he could not have been talking about anyone but the AA

This has always been the problem with park. He says one thing in one testimony and then after prompting by Clarke he he gets on the stand and testifies to something else to fit what she wants to correct what he said that was not help the prosecution. That may be why the jury did not believe him.

The jury didn't believe him because his testimony destroys OJ Simpson's alibi. Period.

[tv]

This is you statement, my dear woman.



I have not argued that point with bobaugust as it was you that made the statement. Bobaugust and I were debating the time of the thumps. Your statement is what caused the discussion between you and me. The statement that we discussed was between you and me, with the assistance of Fbgweezer and Martin.:)
Okay, William.

[martin II]

He states very clearly that he's talking about the 170 lb Caucasian. What don't you understand about his testimony when he says he didn't tell St. John that he saw the black male?

He never told ST jOHN about seeing a black or white man speicfically.

He realized that he saw the 200 lb AA and the lights came on.He then said someone home. Obviously ST jOHN realized he was talking about oj as he told him ok take him to the airport.

[tv]

He never told ST jOHN about seeing a black or white man speicfically.

He realized that he saw the 200 lb AA and the lights came on.He then said someone home. Obviously ST jOHN realized he was talking about oj as he told him ok take him to the airport.

I didn't say he told St. John the color of the person he saw. I said it was his testimony that Kato was the first person he saw. Interpret the testimony however you want. I consider it a very small point. The main thing is that he couldn't get anyone to answer the phone, he saw OJ Simpson cross the driveway into the house and then the lights came on. Obviously he'd just arrived home after his murder spree.

[tv]

Martin,

I know you enjoy the debate and banter as William does on these issues but are you convinced that both Ron and Nicole were dead when Park saw Kato and the AA?

I don't believe they were---or should I say, the DA's never presented any evidence that they were in fact dead. IMO.Why does everyone say Kato and the AA? We all know the AA was OJ Simpson for heaven's sake. The DA's never presented evidence that Ron and Nicole were dead? Wonder how they got all those grisly crime scene photos?

[martin II]

Q. The first person who appeared?

A. From what I noticed, from the back of the house.

Q. And he appeared where, in terms of your field of view?

You're looking straight ahead, in from the car?

A. Yes.

Q. And where did this person appear?

A. To my --

Q. So to your right, to your left?

A. To the left of me, on the edge of the driveway.

Q. Okay.

And can you describe to the jury this person whom you saw appear?

A. It was a blond-hair male, five-ten, 170 pounds.

Q. What did you then say to Dale St. John, without telling us what he
said?

A. I said to him that somebody's here.

Q. And did you say anything else?

If Park said this in the civil trial then he absolutely changed his testimony
from what he said in the criminal trial.In the criminal trial he said that he told St John someone home immediately after seeing the AA walk into the house and the lights came on.

Well one thing he cannot change is that when he saw this AA go into the house and the lights came on Kato was definately in the south walkway.

[GreenIce]

No i don't believe it because there is no proof that she was.

Martin,

What indicators lead you to question this?

You know my theory about the dog. But what are yours?

[tv]

If Park said this in the civil trial then he absolutely changed his testimony
from what he said in the criminal trial.In the criminal trial he said that he told St John someone home immediately after seeing the AA walk into the house and the lights came on.

Well one thing he cannot change is that when he saw this AA go into the house and the lights came on Kato was definately in the south walkway.

By AA you mean OJ Simpson?

[GreenIce]

What does this mean to you.
I saw the AA go into the house and the lights came on.that was his thoughts to himself but immediately when he saw this he told St John 'SOMEONE IS HOME" he could not have been talking about anyone but the AA

This has always been the problem with park. He says one thing in one testimony and then after prompting by Clarke he he gets on the stand and testifies to something else to fit what she wants to correct what he said that was not help the prosecution. That may be why the jury did not believe him.

Martin,

Why do lawyers from both sides ask the same question over and over again only changing the words? IMO, it is to confuse or try to get the witness to give at least one answer they can use. In this case, the defense did not do this as much as the DA's. JC asked the same question over and over again and he always got the same answer.

William might have a different take on my observation.

[William Anthony]

Okay, William.

See how easy that was?:)

[tv]

See how easy that was?:)

Believe me when I tell you it wasn't easy but I have to take care of my own sanity even if it means backing off.

[martin II]

martin, I know you know the layout of the Rockingham estate by heart. Where was the Jacuzzi located?

West of the house in the back yard near the pool. why?

[William Anthony]

Martin,

Why do lawyers from both sides ask the same question over and over again only changing the words? IMO, it is to confuse or try to get the witness to give at least one answer they can use. In this case, the defense did not do this as much as the DA's. JC asked the same question over and over again and he always got the same answer.

William might have a different take on my observation.

Some times it is done for clarification. Sometimes it is done for emphasis. Sometimes it is done because they have lost their train of thought. Sometimes it is done to trap a witness. Sometimes it is done because they have nothing better to say. Sometimes they have forgotten they asked it. I tried to avoid doing that in depositions but sometimes you get an answer that causes you to go off in a different direction and when you come back you repeat questions you have already asked. Believe me, that can be expensive in depositions. :)

[GreenIce]

Believe me when I tell you it wasn't easy but I have to take care of my own sanity even if it means backing off.

TV,

I enjoy your wit as well!

[William Anthony]

Believe me when I tell you it wasn't easy but I have to take care of my own sanity even if it means backing off.

I certainly know what you mean. I thought for a moment that we had a stuck rewind button.:)

[tv]

West of the house in the back yard near the pool. why?There was a post earlier that Simpson could have been lured out of the house by someone that turned on the jacuzzi jets. Kato said he didn't leave them on but I think he did as he had done before. I just wondered if Simpson could have heard them from inside the house. I looked at Wagner's diagrams and he said he wasn't sure of the location of the jacuzzi.

[martin II]

Martin,

Why do lawyers from both sides ask the same question over and over again only changing the words? IMO, it is to confuse or try to get the witness to give at least one answer they can use. In this case, the defense did not do this as much as the DA's. JC asked the same question over and over again and he always got the same answer.

William might have a different take on my observation.

Petrocelli was good at this he would toss out a hypo and slip in talk about what he wanted the answer to be hoping the witness would be mentally lazy and just agree with his original hypo.

[tv]

I certainly know what you mean. I thought for a moment that we had a stuck rewind button.:)
I think your rewind button gets stuck fairly often. IMO, of course. :)

[tv]

Petrocelli was good at this he would toss out a hypo and slip in talk about what he wanted the answer to be hoping the witness would be mentally lazy and just agree with his original hypo.

Martin, believe it or not, Johnnie Cochran isn't the only attorney capable of participating in a trial.

[weezer]

Martin, believe it or not, Johnnie Cochran isn't the only attorney capable of participating in a trial.

I don't remember. Did Petrocelli tell the jury about witnesses and give their testimony -- no matter how outrageous -- and then never present them at trial?

[tv]

TV,

I enjoy your wit as well!

I'm glad there's something about me you enjoy.

[tv]

I don't remember. Did Petrocelli tell the jury about witnesses and give their testimony -- no matter how outrageous -- and then never present them at trial?Let's see...nope, I don't believe he did!

[William Anthony]

I think your rewind button gets stuck fairly often. IMO, of course. :)

My dear woman,

The proof is in the pudding and the devil is in the details. You gave me a devil's time arguing who Park saw first, when I was arguing when Park told his boss somebody's here. :) However, I do enjoy lighthearted banter even if the adversary is somewhat mistaken as to the subject of the disagreement and I would not call that insane.:)

[martin II]

There was a post earlier that Simpson could have been lured out of the house by someone that turned on the jacuzzi jets. Kato said he didn't leave them on but I think he did as he had done before. I just wondered if Simpson could have heard them from inside the house. I looked at Wagner's diagrams and he said he wasn't sure of the location of the jacuzzi.

If one was in ojs living room i guess one could hearn it running. or maby Oj knew from past experience kato had left it running and he checked to see if he had done it again.I don't understand why Kato would use the Jacuzzi and not turn it off.
I got the location from something i read about it in the past. That is where
ojs friend the cop, forgot his name, was in the Jacuzzi with the blond woman
all tanked up.He is the one with the drinking problem

[William Anthony]

Let's see...nope, I don't believe he did!

He just made false claims.

[tv]

He just made false claims.

No, he did not make false claims. What false claims are you talking about?

[GreenIce]

I'm sure everything you've just said is 100% accurate. I won't even mention the fact that Rosa Lopez was so lacking in credibility that the National Enquirer wouldn't even use her. I'm sure I'm wrong or confused.

Rosa Lopez's credibility was destroyed by Bill Pavelic, not only did he think it took 5 minutes to make a cup of tea in the microwave, he never turned the tape over to Cochran's team--remember, Carl Douglas falling on his sword over this?

Seeing or not seeing the Bronco, IMO, is not the most important evidence, to me it was what she said she heard coming from the same area from where the DA's tried to say that Simpson jumped the fence--well, not really the DA's, the LAPD.

TV, I do want a truce, I would never post something that I knew not be true, any more then I believe you would or any other G. Do I believe it is possible to see the same piece of evidence in many different ways, yes.

Do I believe you were lying when you said what Fuhrman wrote in his report at Rockingham, no. I think since he made notes and I think some sort of report of what he saw at Bundy, why wouldn't he do the same at Rockingham? And you know what, it is possible he did, however, if he did, it was not buried by the defense, it was by the LAPD. In the search warrant, Vanatter said that the glove was found in securing the property--which makes no sense because he gives two different times on when he declared Rockingham a crime scene. IMO, I think Lange and Vanatter did read Fuhrman's notes that very day but opted to look like bumbling cops when they claimed they never read them until days later.

The National Enquirer, had a dog in this fight, they were not going to use or write about any witness who was perceived to helpful to the defense. The Globe took one position--OJ was innocent and the NE took the position that he was guilty.

No I don't believe you are confused or wrong, I think you are an honest person and would not post anything that you knew to be false. And I mean that.

[weezer]

If Park said this in the civil trial then he absolutely changed his testimony
from what he said in the criminal trial.In the criminal trial he said that he told St John someone home immediately after seeing the AA walk into the house and the lights came on.

Well one thing he cannot change is that when he saw this AA go into the house and the lights came on Kato was definately in the south walkway.

IIRC, the post was Park's criminal trial testimony.

Notice that he specifically made the statement after seeing kato that 'somebody's here', then he orenthal walking across/up the driveway, and then he saw lights come on.

[William Anthony]

If one was in ojs living room i guess one could hearn it running. or maby Oj knew from past experience kato had left it running and he checked to see if he had done it again.I don't understand why Kato would use the Jacuzzi and not turn it off.
I got the location from something i read about it in the past. That is where
ojs friend the cop, forgot his name, was in the Jacuzzi with the blond woman
all tanked up.He is the one with the drinking problem

You mean Ron Shipp, who was obviously jealous of Simpson and hurt, because the DA made him realize he wasn't Simpson's friend. He was so proud to tell people he knew and could visit Simpson. Talk about hero worship and the stupid statement he did not want to be the one take Simpson down. I understood why the magnificent one took pity on his distant relative.

[tv]

If one was in ojs living room i guess one could hearn it running. or maby Oj knew from past experience kato had left it running and he checked to see if he had done it again.I don't understand why Kato would use the Jacuzzi and not turn it off.
I got the location from something i read about it in the past. That is where
ojs friend the cop, forgot his name, was in the Jacuzzi with the blond woman
all tanked up.He is the one with the drinking problem

I ask myself why my family doesn't turn off lights when they leave the house no matter how many times I ask them to be sure they're turned off. Why doesn't my son remember to take out the trash every Sunday night without me reminding him? I think it was probably just an irritating habit that Kato had. :shrug:

[martin II]

More like excuses, excuses, excuses.

TV

You do agree that KATO was in the south walkway when Park saw the porch lights come on.right.

[William Anthony]

IIRC, the post was Park's criminal trial testimony.

Notice that he specifically made the statement after seeing kato that 'somebody's here', then he orenthal walking across/up the driveway, and then he saw lights come on.

Give it up, because the whole board know when he specifically made the statement after specifically seeing whom. :)

[weezer]

If one was in ojs living room i guess one could hearn it running. or maby Oj knew from past experience kato had left it running and he checked to see if he had done it again.I don't understand why Kato would use the Jacuzzi and not turn it off.
I got the location from something i read about it in the past. That is where
ojs friend the cop, forgot his name, was in the Jacuzzi with the blond woman
all tanked up.He is the one with the drinking problem

you must be talking about Ron Shipp who helped orenthal out when Jason beat the statue of orenthal to a pulp. You must be talking about Ron Shipp who orenthal asked about lie detectors because he'd had thoughts of killing Nicole. You must be talking about Ron Shipp another of orenthal's casualties. I don't remember -- who was it exactly that testified about Ron Shipp and the jacuzzi?

[GreenIce]

There was a post earlier that Simpson could have been lured out of the house by someone that turned on the jacuzzi jets. Kato said he didn't leave them on but I think he did as he had done before. I just wondered if Simpson could have heard them from inside the house. I looked at Wagner's diagrams and he said he wasn't sure of the location of the jacuzzi.

TV,

As you know, I made this post. I did not know that Kato had a habit of doing this. However, he said that he was sure that he turned it off. It appeared to me that Kato was very greatful to be living on Simpson's estate and that he tried to be a good "guest", like making sure he turned it off. If he had done it a couple of times and each time Simpson had to tell him to turn it off, I have a heard time believing that he would allow himself to forget this. Again, IMO.

[William Anthony]

I ask myself why my family doesn't turn off lights when they leave the house no matter how many times I ask them to be sure they're turned off. Why doesn't my son remember to take out the trash every Sunday night without me reminding him? I think it was probably just an irritating habit that Kato had. :shrug:

It is harder to rid yourself of your child than Kato, unless you are a compassionate person, imho.:)

[martin II]

I ask myself why my family doesn't turn off lights when they leave the house no matter how many times I ask them to be sure they're turned off. Why doesn't my son remember to take out the trash every Sunday night without me reminding him? I think it was probably just an irritating habit that Kato had. :shrug:

Now you know that taking out the garbage is the last thing your teenage son
is thinking about. smile.

[William Anthony]

you must be talking about Ron Shipp who helped orenthal out when Jason beat the statue of orenthal to a pulp. You must be talking about Ron Shipp who orenthal asked about lie detectors because he'd had thoughts of killing Nicole. You must be talking about Ron Shipp another of orenthal's casualties. I don't remember -- who was it exactly that testified about Ron Shipp and the jacuzzi?

I think that's the one, a wannabe Simpson friend.

[weezer]

Give it up, because the whole board know when he specifically made the statement after specifically seeing whom. :)

awww -- I'm disappointed -- I at least expected a 'man up'.

you are wrong about Park's testimony. It's been posted what he said and when he said it. I don't have a clue what testimony you are basing your argument on but it isn't Park's. :shrug:

however, if you do have testimony that says differently, please post a link or at least the day and date.

[weezer]

I think that's the one, a wannabe Simpson friend.

yep -- orenthal the people user. I've said before that he surrounded himself with step-n-fechits.

[tv]

Rosa Lopez's credibility was destroyed by Bill Pavelic, not only did he think it took 5 minutes to make a cup of tea in the microwave, he never turned the tape over to Cochran's team--remember, Carl Douglas falling on his sword over this?

Seeing or not seeing the Bronco, IMO, is not the most important evidence, to me it was what she said she heard coming from the same area from where the DA's tried to say that Simpson jumped the fence--well, not really the DA's, the LAPD.

TV, I do want a truce, I would never post something that I knew not be true, any more then I believe you would or any other G. Do I believe it is possible to see the same piece of evidence in many different ways, yes.

Do I believe you were lying when you said what Fuhrman wrote in his report at Rockingham, no. I think since he made notes and I think some sort of report of what he saw at Bundy, why wouldn't he do the same at Rockingham? And you know what, it is possible he did, however, if he did, it was not buried by the defense, it was by the LAPD. In the search warrant, Vanatter said that the glove was found in securing the property--which makes no sense because he gives two different times on when he declared Rockingham a crime scene. IMO, I think Lange and Vanatter did read Fuhrman's notes that very day but opted to look like bumbling cops when they claimed they never read them until days later.

The National Enquirer, had a dog in this fight, they were not going to use or write about any witness who was perceived to helpful to the defense. The Globe took one position--OJ was innocent and the NE took the position that he was guilty.

No I don't believe you are confused or wrong, I think you are an honest person and would not post anything that you knew to be false. And I mean that.

GI, Fuhrman sat down that same day with Marcia Clarke and Gerald Uelman and told them everything that had happened at Rockingham. If you don't want to consider that a 'report' it's okay with me. If you want to think Rosa Lopez is credible that's also okay with me because we were spared having to hear her testimony at trial so it really doesn't matter. There's no need to call a truce as we're not at war. I didn't realize you were perceiving our exchanges as hostile -- I'll try to do better. :)

[GreenIce]

It is harder to rid yourself of your child than Kato, unless you are a compassionate person, imho.:)

William,

That was funny! :D

[tv]

Now you know that taking out the garbage is the last thing your teenage son
is thinking about. smile.True, but that's his problem not mine. :)

[tv]

It is harder to rid yourself of your child than Kato, unless you are a compassionate person, imho.:) OJ Simpson could have thrown Kato out in the street anytime. I think the jacuzzi was merely an irritant to him not a deal breaker. :)

[martin II]

I consulted Wagner's diagrams of the estate and he says he couldn't locate the Jacuzzi but from what Kato said it may be part of the pool. As I was looking for the Jacuzzi I read something interesting. Wagner says that the lights that gave Park the "lights on" impression was Simpson turning on the light in the kitchen before he removed his sweat suit and threw it in the washer. Interesting theory and entirely possible IMO.

He was wrong the lightrs that came on were the coach/ porch lights.But leave it to Park to be confused.

[William Anthony]

awww -- I'm disappointed -- I at least expected a 'man up'.

you are wrong about Park's testimony. It's been posted what he said and when he said it. I don't have a clue what testimony you are basing your argument on but it isn't Park's. :shrug:

however, if you do have testimony that says differently, please post a link or at least the day and date.

Already done. See post 2684, IIRC.

[William Anthony]

OJ Simpson could have thrown Kato out in the street anytime. I think the jacuzzi was merely an irritant to him not a deal breaker. :)

I get it a b*ll buster but not a deal breaker. :)

[GreenIce]

GI, Fuhrman sat down that same day with Marcia Clarke and Gerald Uelman and told them everything that had happened at Rockingham. If you don't want to consider that a 'report' it's okay with me. If you want to think Rosa Lopez is credible that's also okay with me because we were spared having to hear her testimony at trial so it really doesn't matter. There's no need to call a truce as we're not at war. I didn't realize you were perceiving our exchanges as hostile -- I'll try to do better. :)

TV,

I remember seeing Fuhrman escort Clark at Rockingham. However, since he was no longer one of the lead detectives, he was not responsible for writing a report.

However, what is interesting, that while he was talking to Clark outside, he made no mention of the socks to her, the bloody print at Bundy or the one inside Rockingham. I realize that Clark could not go inside until there was a search warrant but it seems odd to me that he didn't tell her about his other big "finds".

In regards to Lopez, just as with JS, no one has been able to prove that either lied. JS had a credibility issue because she sold her story, I still haven't determined why Lopez was destroyed--she lied over a plane ticket?
Do JS' "lies" mean she is not telling the truth to what she saw?


If you read the search warrant, you see that Fuhrman's name is never mentioned on what he found---the blood on and in the Bronco and the glove. Vanatter did not tell the truth how and why the glove was found.

[tv]

TV,

As you know, I made this post. I did not know that Kato had a habit of doing this. However, he said that he was sure that he turned it off. It appeared to me that Kato was very greatful to be living on Simpson's estate and that he tried to be a good "guest", like making sure he turned it off. If he had done it a couple of times and each time Simpson had to tell him to turn it off, I have a heard time believing that he would allow himself to forget this. Again, IMO.

By Simpson's own admission Kato had left the jacuzzi running before. He probably meant to turn it off but and probably thought he did. I just don't think he did.

[William Anthony]

yep -- orenthal the people user. I've said before that he surrounded himself with step-n-fechits.

Yes, we are aware that you said that. I just didn't think you would repeat it. Oh well, I can't say you disappointed me. :)

[martin II]

GI, Fuhrman sat down that same day with Marcia Clarke and Gerald Uelman and told them everything that had happened at Rockingham. If you don't want to consider that a 'report' it's okay with me. If you want to think Rosa Lopez is credible that's also okay with me because we were spared having to hear her testimony at trial so it really doesn't matter. There's no need to call a truce as we're not at war. I didn't realize you were perceiving our exchanges as hostile -- I'll try to do better. :)

i think Darden pulled the same strong arm tactics he tried to pull on Heidstra
when he and 2 other big cope visited Heidstra at his house after his first testimony. Talking about his immigration status. I think he did the same with Lopez and her friend and caused both of them to panic and flee the country.

[William Anthony]

i think Darden pulled the same strong arm tactics he tried to pull on Heidstra
when he and 2 other big cope visited Heidstra at his house after his first testimony. Talking about his immigration status. I think he did the same with Lopez and her friend and caused both of them to panic and flee the country.

I have images of the Gestapo, led by Darden and Rockne Harmon.

[martin II]

Yes, we are aware that you said that. I just didn't think you would repeat it. Oh well, I can't say you disappointed me. :)

Some or one person dosen't seem to really care what they post here or what others see them posting. Then there are some great women that are more reserved and demand and get a higher level of respect based on how they carry themselves or should i say how they avoid posting from a lower place.
martin II

[GreenIce]

i think Darden pulled the same strong arm tactics he tried to pull on Heidstra
when he and 2 other big cope visited Heidstra at his house after his first testimony. Talking about his immigration status. I think he did the same with Lopez and her friend and caused both of them to panic and flee the country.

Martin,

In all honestly, I do believe that both sides will do anything they can to destroy a witnesses credibility when they have testimony that will hurt their case.

[William Anthony]

No, he did not make false claims. What false claims are you talking about?

I am getting sleepy and overlooked this post until now. You know the one where he said he proved Simpson guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in the civil murder trial and I do forget the most recent one that was recently placed on the forum. I will wish all a pleasant night and sweet dreams. :seeya:

[William Anthony]

Martin,

In all honestly, I do believe that both sides will do anything they can to destroy a witnesses credibility when they have testimony that will hurt their case.

As Martin says, true dat.:)

[martin II]

TV,

I remember seeing Fuhrman escort Clark at Rockingham. However, since he was no longer one of the lead detectives, he was not responsible for writing a report.

However, what is interesting, that while he was talking to Clark outside, he made no mention of the socks to her, the bloody print at Bundy or the one inside Rockingham. I realize that Clark could not go inside until there was a search warrant but it seems odd to me that he didn't tell her about his other big "finds".

In regards to Lopez, just as with JS, no one has been able to prove that either lied. JS had a credibility issue because she sold her story, I still haven't determined why Lopez was destroyed--she lied over a plane ticket?
Do JS' "lies" mean she is not telling the truth to what she saw?


If you read the search warrant, you see that Fuhrman's name is never mentioned on what he found---the blood on and in the Bronco and the glove. Vanatter did not tell the truth how and why the glove was found.

Well i read that Vanhatter reached out to Clarke for help in writing the search warrant request to the judge and she advised or helped him write it.

I think Lopez's claims that the bronco was at rockingham was damaging to the prosecutions case and they went after her. That she felt she should run before she got into trouble with immagration so she lied to get out of testifying and she and her friend left.I bet she may be back in LA doing the same work. Selling her story was not the only reason JS was tossed. Her ex told Clarke that she could not be trusted. That she was a cronic civil court plaintiff and owed a lot of money to people etc etc. Wagner also says Clarke wanted JS to change the time she saw oj and js refused and this pissed Clarke off.He also says JS admitted that she was at home getting ready to leave at 10;45.

[martin II]

No, he did not make false claims. What false claims are you talking about?

Petrocelli's stupid idea #1
Petrocelli's stupid idea #2

Wagner

[martin II]

I think that's the one, a wannabe Simpson friend.

Thats him the one that was hitting on Nicole.

[martin II]

IIRC, the post was Park's criminal trial testimony.

Notice that he specifically made the statement after seeing kato that 'somebody's here', then he orenthal walking across/up the driveway, and then he saw lights come on.

He changed his testimony from what he said in williams post.

But he could not change the fact that when he saw the lights go on Kato was in the south walkway.

[martin II]

Martin,

In all honestly, I do believe that both sides will do anything they can to destroy a witnesses credibility when they have testimony that will hurt their case.

Rosa Lopez uncovered the issue of where oj was and that was end game for the prosecution. It was also a way not to investigate the voices she heard on ojs property at various times and the mystery car parked on rockingham south of the gate,

[martin II]

Rosa Lopez's credibility was destroyed by Bill Pavelic, not only did he think it took 5 minutes to make a cup of tea in the microwave, he never turned the tape over to Cochran's team--remember, Carl Douglas falling on his sword over this?

Seeing or not seeing the Bronco, IMO, is not the most important evidence, to me it was what she said she heard coming from the same area from where the DA's tried to say that Simpson jumped the fence--well, not really the DA's, the LAPD.

TV, I do want a truce, I would never post something that I knew not be true, any more then I believe you would or any other G. Do I believe it is possible to see the same piece of evidence in many different ways, yes.

Do I believe you were lying when you said what Fuhrman wrote in his report at Rockingham, no. I think since he made notes and I think some sort of report of what he saw at Bundy, why wouldn't he do the same at Rockingham? And you know what, it is possible he did, however, if he did, it was not buried by the defense, it was by the LAPD. In the search warrant, Vanatter said that the glove was found in securing the property--which makes no sense because he gives two different times on when he declared Rockingham a crime scene. IMO, I think Lange and Vanatter did read Fuhrman's notes that very day but opted to look like bumbling cops when they claimed they never read them until days later.

The National Enquirer, had a dog in this fight, they were not going to use or write about any witness who was perceived to helpful to the defense. The Globe took one position--OJ was innocent and the NE took the position that he was guilty.

No I don't believe you are confused or wrong, I think you are an honest person and would not post anything that you knew to be false. And I mean that.

Bill Pavalic was the experienced lapd detective that was against lapd bad behavior especially in the area of racial abuse. I think when the murders occured or near that time he was in the State Attorney Generals office outlinning a history of racial abuse against minorities by M Furhman.
He had also developed a case against D Gates. But he was especially after Furhman.

I never understood why he did what he did to C Dougless about the Lopex tape. She was attacked because she did not tell a regular reporter all of what she knew because she said he was not le.I never got the true understanding of her interview by Furhman and why he did not make a record of her comments. If he interviewed her why not make a written record and turn it in to the DA.

I have not understood why seasoned detectives would be investigating a major crime scene at Rockingham and not be compeled to keep a written log of all of their activities. A log would protect them from attacks by the defense
on what they did and would allow them to have a written memory of what they did during preperation for testimony and during their testimony.

On the other hand not keeping a log allows them to manipulate their testimony as required to support the prosecutions case. How can we give a guy a gun and send him into the community to enforce the law and not require accountability from him.
imo

[martin II]

TV
i think in your rush to have a visit with your sister you may have not seen this post to you.


TV

You do agree that KATO was in the south walkway when Park saw the porch lights come on.right.

[bobaugust]

See post 2270, the testimonies are what they are and the testimonies about the lights confirm that. Kato had a flashlight the whole time he was outside, according to the testimony. I have never said that both his searches weren't cursory. I just delineated the two. Kato had finished his first cursory search at the only time he was outside with Simpson and that would have been simultaneous to Simpson putting the knapsack down and going in the house. That is why Kato saw the knapsack after his first cursory search. Simpson went in turned the lights on did something and came back out. The testimonies show that the only time Park could have seen Kato and Simpson is after Kato's first cursory search. You may choose to disregard it because you believe it contradicts your views but the testimonies are what they are.:)

Changing the facts in this case to try and fit what you want to believe William doesn’t make your scenario correct.

The fact is that Allan Park saw Kato Kaelin come from around the north side of Simpson’s house. Kaelin was coming down the path for his first trip to the south path to investigate the noises on his back wall that he had just heard about two to three minutes before. When Kaelin got to the driveway he stopped and almost simultaneously Park saw Simpson walk up into the light from the front entrance and enter his house.

Park then waited to be let in the gate but no one let him in. Kato went on to the south path to investigate the noises. Park got out of the limo and rang the intercom again. This time Simpson answered. Park went back to his limo and again waited. Kaelin returned from his first trip to the south path and opened the gate and let Park onto the estate.


March 28, 1995 Allan Park

Q CAN YOU SHOW US ON THE DIAGRAM, DIRECT THE POINTER TO WHERE YOU SAW HIM ON THE SIDE YARD?
A RIGHT THERE WHERE THE ARROW WAS WHERE THE PATH -- WHERE THE PATH COMES OUT FROM BEHIND THE HOUSE. HE CAME OUT TO JUST ABOUT THE DRIVEWAY, RIGHT THERE, (INDICATING).
Q WAS HE ON THE DRIVEWAY OR WAS HE ON THE GRASS?
A NO, HE WAS OFF A COUPLE FEET.

Q WHAT WAS HE DOING WHEN YOU SAW HIM?
A HE WAS JUST STANDING THERE, FROM WHAT I OBSERVED.
Q OKAY.
COULD YOU TELL WHERE HE WAS LOOKING OR WHAT HE WAS DOING?
A HE LOOKED AT ME AND THEN HE JUST -- HE STARTED TO LOOK, YOU KNOW, IN THE AREA OF THE ROCKINGHAM DRIVEWAY.
Q NOW, WHEN HE WAS LOOKING AT YOU, WHERE WERE YOU?
A I WAS INSIDE THE CAR ON THE PHONE.
Q TALKING TO YOUR BOSS?
A YES.

Q HOW LONG -- NOW, AT THE SAME TIME THAT YOU SAW KATO KAELIN IN THE SIDE YARD, DID YOU SEE ANYTHING ELSE?
A YES. I SAW A FIGURE COME DOWN -- WELL, NOT COME DOWN, BUT I SAW A FIGURE COME INTO THE ENTRANCEWAY OF THE HOUSE JUST ABOUT WHERE THE -- WHERE THE DRIVEWAY STARTS.

Q OKAY.
CAN YOU DESCRIBE WHAT HE LOOKED LIKE, WHAT THAT PERSON LOOKED LIKE.MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: OVERRULED.
THE WITNESS: SIX FOOT, 200 POUNDS.
Q BY MS. CLARK: SIX FOOT, 200 POUNDS?
A ALL DARK CLOTHING.
Q AND COULD YOU TELL ANYTHING ELSE ABOUT THIS PERSON?
A NO.
Q COULD YOU TELL WHETHER THE PERSON WAS CAUCASIAN OR AFRICAN AMERICAN?
A BLACK.

Q AND WHEN YOU SAW THAT PERSON, DID THAT PERSON WALK INTO THE ENTRANCE?
A YES.
Q AFTER THAT PERSON WALKED INTO THE ENTRANCE, WHAT DID YOU DO?
A I THEN PROCEEDED TO -- WELL, I WAS STILL TALKING TO DALE AT THE SAME TIME. I SAID "SOMEBODY'S HERE." HE SAID, "FINE, FINISH THE JOB, TAKE HIM TO THE AIRPORT AND I WILL SEE YOU TOMORROW" OR WHATEVER. I HUNG UP THE PHONE AND I STILL WAITED ANOTHER -- IT WAS ABOUT ANOTHER THIRTY SECONDS OR SO BEFORE I GOT OUT OF THE CAR, BUT I WAS STILL WAITING FOR SOME SOMEBODY TO COME OPEN THE GATE. I FIGURED SOMEBODY WAS GOING TO COME OPEN THE GATE FOR ME. THEY STILL DIDN'T.

Q HOW LONG AFTER YOU SAW THE SIX-FOOT 200-POUND PERSON IN ALL DARK CLOTHING GO INTO THE HOUSE DID YOU CONTINUE TO TALK TO DALE ST. JOHN?
A OH, IT WAS JUST ANYWHERE BETWEEN TEN TO THIRTY SECONDS. IT WASN'T VERY LONG.
Q OKAY.
SO ON THE PHONE BILL IN FRONT OF YOU, SIR, ON THAT LAST CALL WHERE IT INDICATES 10:52 AND 17 SECONDS, DOES IT INDICATE HOW LONG THE PHONE CALL WAS FOR, THE DURATION OF THE CALL?
A UMM, YES, TWO MINUTES AND 55 SECONDS.
Q OKAY. DOES THAT COMPORT WITH YOUR MEMORY OF THE LENGTH OF THE PHONE CALL?
A YES.
Q AND SO YOU WOULD HAVE HUNG UP WITH HIM AT 10:55 AND 12 SECONDS?
A YES.
Q AND IT WAS WITHIN THE LAST TEN TO THIRTY SECONDS OF THAT CALL AT 10 -- OF ENDING THAT CALL AT 10:55 THAT YOU SAW THIS SIX-FOOT 200-POUND PERSON GO INTO THE ENTRANCE?
A YES.

Q BY MS. CLARK: AFTER YOU -- YOU INDICATED THAT YOU SAT FOR ANOTHER THIRTY SECONDS. WHY DID YOU SIT FOR ANOTHER THIRTY SECONDS IN YOUR CAR AFTER YOU HUNG UP?
A BECAUSE I WAS WAITING FOR THE GATE TO BE OPENED. I FIGURED SOMEBODY IS HOME, THEY SAW ME AND THEY ARE GOING TO LET ME IN.
Q AND DID KATO KAELIN COME OVER TO LET YOU IN?
A NO, HE DIDN'T.
Q AND DID THE SIX-FOOT 200-POUND PERSON DRESSED IN ALL DARK CLOTHING COME TO LET YOU IN?
A NO.

Q AND AFTER THIRTY SECONDS WHAT DID YOU DO?
A THAT IS WHEN I GOT BACK UP AND OUT OF THE CAR AND RANG THE INTERCOM. THIS TIME THERE WAS AN ANSWER, WHICH WAS MR. SIMPSON. HE TOLD ME THAT HE OVERSLEPT AND HE JUST GOT OUT OF THE SHOWER AND HE WOULD BE DOWN IN A MINUTE.

Q WAS MR. KAELIN EVER ON THE DRIVEWAY AT THE SAME TIME AS THE SIX-FOOT
200-POUND PERSON THAT WENT INTO THE HOUSE?
A NOT THAT I REMEMBER, NO.

Q BY MS. CLARK: AND AFTER YOU SPOKE TO MR. SIMPSON ON THE INTERCOM, WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?
A I GOT BACK INTO THE CAR AND WAITED ANOTHER TWENTY, THIRTY SECONDS AND BEFORE MR. KAELIN CAME OVER AND OPENED THE GATE.

bobaugust

[bobaugust]

Kato Kaelin testified as to what he did after he heard the noises on his wall.

March 22, 1995 Kato Kaelin

Q WHAT DID YOU DO NEXT?
A OKAY.
I HUNG UP THE PHONE AND I GOT THE FLASHLIGHT AND I WALKED THE PATHWAY, THE FRONT PATHWAY OUT OF MY FRONT DOOR, TO THE DRIVEWAY.

Q OKAY.
NOW, WHEN YOU WENT TO THE DRIVEWAY, YOU SAID YOU TOOK A PATHWAY AND THAT PATHWAY LED YOU THROUGH WHAT?
A YOU GO BY THE POOL AND WHEN YOU GO BY THE POOL YOU GO TO THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE, THE SIDE THAT WOULD FACE ASHFORD, AND THEN YOU GO AND YOU HIT THE DRIVEWAY.

Q ALL RIGHT. WHAT DID YOU SEE WHEN YOU WERE ON THAT PATH?
A ON THIS PATH?
Q YES.
A NOTHING. I DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING UNTIL I GOT TO THE DRIVEWAY.
Q WHEN YOU GOT TO THE DRIVEWAY AREA WHERE THE PATH MEETS THE DRIVEWAY?
A YES.
Q WHAT DID YOU SEE?
A I SAW A LIMOUSINE.
Q WHERE WAS THAT LIMOUSINE?
A IT WAS RIGHT BEHIND THE GATE ON ASHFORD, (INDICATING).
Q WAS IT FACING INTO THAT ASHFORD GATE?
A YES.
Q COULD YOU SEE WHETHER ANYONE WAS INSIDE IT?
A NO.
Q DID YOU GO TO OPEN THE GATE FOR THE LIMOUSINE DRIVER?
A NO.

Q AND YOU INDICATED YOU DID NOT LET THE LIMOUSINE DRIVER IN?
A NO.
Q WHY NOT?
A I THOUGHT EVERYTHING WAS TAKEN CARE OF. I DIDN'T THINK OF -- OF LETTING HIM IN BECAUSE HE COULD GET A BUZZ IN.
Q WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU THOUGHT IT WAS TAKEN CARE OF?
A WELL, I -- I -- MY PHONE DOESN'T RING TO THE GATE, SO I THOUGHT, IF ANYTHING, THE LIMO GUY WOULD KNOW WHAT TO DO, WHAT WAS GOING ON. I DIDN'T KNOW. I THOUGHT HE WAS IN.
Q DID YOU THINK THE DEFENDANT WAS GOING TO LET HIM IN?
MR. SHAPIRO: OBJECTION.
THE WITNESS: YES

Q YOU DID NOT LET THE LIMO DRIVER IN.
WHERE DID YOU GO? WHAT DID YOU DO?
A I CHECKED ON THE NOISE.
Q WHERE -- CAN YOU SHOW US ON THIS PEOPLE'S 66 --
A COME DOWN?

Q -- WHAT YOU DID?
A OKAY.
SO I HAD THE FLASHLIGHT AND THE LIMO WAS HERE, (INDICATING), SO I START WALKING THIS WAY, (INDICATING), AND I HAD THE LIGHT ON AND I WENT -- THERE IS A GATE HERE, (INDICATING), THAT IS -- I COULD PICK UP THE GATE. YOU CAN PICK IT UP, IT IS NOT WORKING, SO I LEANED IT AGAINST THE TREE AND I WENT DOWN JUST A BIT -- THE PEN LIGHT -- THE LIGHT WAS PRETTY DIM. I LOOKED A LITTLE BIT AND THEN I CAME BACK.

Q AND WHY DID YOU STOP ON THE PATHWAY WHERE YOU DID?
A I JUST DID. I COULDN'T SEE. I WAS -- I JUST STOPPED.
Q WHY?
A YOU KNOW, I WAS SCARED, BUT -- THAT IS IT.
Q YOU WERE SCARED?
A SCARED, YEAH.

Q OKAY. AND SO YOU BACKED OUT AGAIN?
A YES, I DID.
Q WHERE DID YOU GO THEN?
A I WENT BACK OUT.
Q OKAY.
A AND THE LIMO WAS STILL THERE AND I THOUGHT MAYBE I SHOULD LET THIS GUY IN, SO I WENT TO THE GATE CONTROL BOX, THERE IS A BUTTON, PRESSED AND IT OPENS UP.

bobaugust

[William Anthony]

He changed his testimony from what he said in williams post.

But he could not change the fact that when he saw the lights go on Kato was in the south walkway.

He did not change his testimony as he was not asked by the plaintiffs, if he saw the Black figure go into the entrance before he made the remark "somebody's here". In any event the events were fresher in his mind in 1995 than they were in 1996, unless he is an oddity, imho.

[bobaugust]

He was wrong the lightrs that came on were the coach/ porch lights.But leave it to Park to be confused.

Allan Park wasn’t the one who is confused about the lights.

March 28, 1995 Allan Park

Q HOW LONG AFTER THAT PERSON ENTERED THE HOUSE, THE FRONT ENTRANCE, DID THE LIGHTS GO ON DOWNSTAIRS?
A JUST SECONDS.
Q COULD YOU TELL WHICH LIGHTS WENT ON?
A NO. I JUST -- I JUST SAW -- YOU KNOW, FROM THE -- FROM THE WINDOWS AND THE CURTAINS THEY ILLUMINATED. I COULDN'T TELL YOU WHERE THE LIGHTS CAME FROM, NO.

bobaugust

[William Anthony]

Kato Kaelin testified as to what he did after he heard the noises on his wall.

March 22, 1995 Kato Kaelin

Q WHAT DID YOU DO NEXT?
A OKAY.
I HUNG UP THE PHONE AND I GOT THE FLASHLIGHT AND I WALKED THE PATHWAY, THE FRONT PATHWAY OUT OF MY FRONT DOOR, TO THE DRIVEWAY.

Q OKAY.
NOW, WHEN YOU WENT TO THE DRIVEWAY, YOU SAID YOU TOOK A PATHWAY AND THAT PATHWAY LED YOU THROUGH WHAT?
A YOU GO BY THE POOL AND WHEN YOU GO BY THE POOL YOU GO TO THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE, THE SIDE THAT WOULD FACE ASHFORD, AND THEN YOU GO AND YOU HIT THE DRIVEWAY.

Q ALL RIGHT. WHAT DID YOU SEE WHEN YOU WERE ON THAT PATH?
A ON THIS PATH?
Q YES.
A NOTHING. I DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING UNTIL I GOT TO THE DRIVEWAY.
Q WHEN YOU GOT TO THE DRIVEWAY AREA WHERE THE PATH MEETS THE DRIVEWAY?
A YES.
Q WHAT DID YOU SEE?
A I SAW A LIMOUSINE.
Q WHERE WAS THAT LIMOUSINE?
A IT WAS RIGHT BEHIND THE GATE ON ASHFORD, (INDICATING).
Q WAS IT FACING INTO THAT ASHFORD GATE?
A YES.
Q COULD YOU SEE WHETHER ANYONE WAS INSIDE IT?
A NO.
Q DID YOU GO TO OPEN THE GATE FOR THE LIMOUSINE DRIVER?
A NO.

Q AND YOU INDICATED YOU DID NOT LET THE LIMOUSINE DRIVER IN?
A NO.
Q WHY NOT?
A I THOUGHT EVERYTHING WAS TAKEN CARE OF. I DIDN'T THINK OF -- OF LETTING HIM IN BECAUSE HE COULD GET A BUZZ IN.
Q WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU THOUGHT IT WAS TAKEN CARE OF?
A WELL, I -- I -- MY PHONE DOESN'T RING TO THE GATE, SO I THOUGHT, IF ANYTHING, THE LIMO GUY WOULD KNOW WHAT TO DO, WHAT WAS GOING ON. I DIDN'T KNOW. I THOUGHT HE WAS IN.
Q DID YOU THINK THE DEFENDANT WAS GOING TO LET HIM IN?
MR. SHAPIRO: OBJECTION.
THE WITNESS: YES

Q YOU DID NOT LET THE LIMO DRIVER IN.
WHERE DID YOU GO? WHAT DID YOU DO?
A I CHECKED ON THE NOISE.
Q WHERE -- CAN YOU SHOW US ON THIS PEOPLE'S 66 --
A COME DOWN?

Q -- WHAT YOU DID?
A OKAY.
SO I HAD THE FLASHLIGHT AND THE LIMO WAS HERE, (INDICATING), SO I START WALKING THIS WAY, (INDICATING), AND I HAD THE LIGHT ON AND I WENT -- THERE IS A GATE HERE, (INDICATING), THAT IS -- I COULD PICK UP THE GATE. YOU CAN PICK IT UP, IT IS NOT WORKING, SO I LEANED IT AGAINST THE TREE AND I WENT DOWN JUST A BIT -- THE PEN LIGHT -- THE LIGHT WAS PRETTY DIM. I LOOKED A LITTLE BIT AND THEN I CAME BACK.

Q AND WHY DID YOU STOP ON THE PATHWAY WHERE YOU DID?
A I JUST DID. I COULDN'T SEE. I WAS -- I JUST STOPPED.
Q WHY?
A YOU KNOW, I WAS SCARED, BUT -- THAT IS IT.
Q YOU WERE SCARED?
A SCARED, YEAH.

Q OKAY. AND SO YOU BACKED OUT AGAIN?
A YES, I DID.
Q WHERE DID YOU GO THEN?
A I WENT BACK OUT.
Q OKAY.
A AND THE LIMO WAS STILL THERE AND I THOUGHT MAYBE I SHOULD LET THIS GUY IN, SO I WENT TO THE GATE CONTROL BOX, THERE IS A BUTTON, PRESSED AND IT OPENS UP.

bobaugust

Exactly, Kato saw the limo and then did his first cursory search. Park didn't see him at that time as the phone records indicate he was talking to his mother. Kato then backed out and that is when Park saw him for the first time when he almost simultaneously saw the Black figure. Park hangs up the phone shortly thereafter, rings the buzzer seeing Kato, Kato let's him in and does his second cursory search. Allowing for the first cursory search, this makes the time of Kato's exit from his quarters consistent with ten forty five.

[martin II]

Kato Kaelin testified as to what he did after he heard the noises on his wall.

March 22, 1995 Kato Kaelin

Q WHAT DID YOU DO NEXT?
A OKAY.
I HUNG UP THE PHONE AND I GOT THE FLASHLIGHT AND I WALKED THE PATHWAY, THE FRONT PATHWAY OUT OF MY FRONT DOOR, TO THE DRIVEWAY.

Q OKAY.
NOW, WHEN YOU WENT TO THE DRIVEWAY, YOU SAID YOU TOOK A PATHWAY AND THAT PATHWAY LED YOU THROUGH WHAT?
A YOU GO BY THE POOL AND WHEN YOU GO BY THE POOL YOU GO TO THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE, THE SIDE THAT WOULD FACE ASHFORD, AND THEN YOU GO AND YOU HIT THE DRIVEWAY.

Q ALL RIGHT. WHAT DID YOU SEE WHEN YOU WERE ON THAT PATH?
A ON THIS PATH?
Q YES.
A NOTHING. I DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING UNTIL I GOT TO THE DRIVEWAY.
Q WHEN YOU GOT TO THE DRIVEWAY AREA WHERE THE PATH MEETS THE DRIVEWAY?
A YES.
Q WHAT DID YOU SEE?
A I SAW A LIMOUSINE.
Q WHERE WAS THAT LIMOUSINE?
A IT WAS RIGHT BEHIND THE GATE ON ASHFORD, (INDICATING).
Q WAS IT FACING INTO THAT ASHFORD GATE?
A YES.
Q COULD YOU SEE WHETHER ANYONE WAS INSIDE IT?
A NO.
Q DID YOU GO TO OPEN THE GATE FOR THE LIMOUSINE DRIVER?
A NO.

Q AND YOU INDICATED YOU DID NOT LET THE LIMOUSINE DRIVER IN?
A NO.
Q WHY NOT?
A I THOUGHT EVERYTHING WAS TAKEN CARE OF. I DIDN'T THINK OF -- OF LETTING HIM IN BECAUSE HE COULD GET A BUZZ IN.
Q WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU THOUGHT IT WAS TAKEN CARE OF?
A WELL, I -- I -- MY PHONE DOESN'T RING TO THE GATE, SO I THOUGHT, IF ANYTHING, THE LIMO GUY WOULD KNOW WHAT TO DO, WHAT WAS GOING ON. I DIDN'T KNOW. I THOUGHT HE WAS IN.
Q DID YOU THINK THE DEFENDANT WAS GOING TO LET HIM IN?
MR. SHAPIRO: OBJECTION.
THE WITNESS: YES

Q YOU DID NOT LET THE LIMO DRIVER IN.
WHERE DID YOU GO? WHAT DID YOU DO?
A I CHECKED ON THE NOISE.
Q WHERE -- CAN YOU SHOW US ON THIS PEOPLE'S 66 --
A COME DOWN?

Q -- WHAT YOU DID?
A OKAY.
SO I HAD THE FLASHLIGHT AND THE LIMO WAS HERE, (INDICATING), SO I START WALKING THIS WAY, (INDICATING), AND I HAD THE LIGHT ON AND I WENT -- THERE IS A GATE HERE, (INDICATING), THAT IS -- I COULD PICK UP THE GATE. YOU CAN PICK IT UP, IT IS NOT WORKING, SO I LEANED IT AGAINST THE TREE AND I WENT DOWN JUST A BIT -- THE PEN LIGHT -- THE LIGHT WAS PRETTY DIM. I LOOKED A LITTLE BIT AND THEN I CAME BACK.

Q AND WHY DID YOU STOP ON THE PATHWAY WHERE YOU DID?
A I JUST DID. I COULDN'T SEE. I WAS -- I JUST STOPPED.
Q WHY?
A YOU KNOW, I WAS SCARED, BUT -- THAT IS IT.
Q YOU WERE SCARED?
A SCARED, YEAH.

Q OKAY. AND SO YOU BACKED OUT AGAIN?
A YES, I DID.
Q WHERE DID YOU GO THEN?
A I WENT BACK OUT.
Q OKAY.
A AND THE LIMO WAS STILL THERE AND I THOUGHT MAYBE I SHOULD LET THIS GUY IN, SO I WENT TO THE GATE CONTROL BOX, THERE IS A BUTTON, PRESSED AND IT OPENS UP.

bobaugust


Park testified that when he saw the AA go into the house and the lights go on this is when he told ST jOHN "someone home" referring to the AA he had just seen.
Kato obviously was in the south walkway past the garage when the lights came on immediately after oj walked into the front door.Not standing at the Ashford side of the house.

Park gave a clear testimony of when he said SOMEONE HOME and who he had seen to cause him to make this comment to Dale. It seems he changed
his testimony somewhat in the civil trial but this was not the only time Park
had given confusing or incorrect testimony. He changes his testimony from time to time when questioned about the loading of the bags and other issues.
So i guess one has to try to decide which of his testimonies one believes.imo

[William Anthony]

Changing the facts in this case to try and fit what you want to believe William doesn’t make your scenario correct.

The fact is that Allan Park saw Kato Kaelin come from around the north side of Simpson’s house. Kaelin was coming down the path for his first trip to the south path to investigate the noises on his back wall that he had just heard about two to three minutes before. When Kaelin got to the driveway he stopped and almost simultaneously Park saw Simpson walk up into the light from the front entrance and enter his house.

Park then waited to be let in the gate but no one let him in. Kato went on to the south path to investigate the noises. Park got out of the limo and rang the intercom again. This time Simpson answered. Park went back to his limo and again waited. Kaelin returned from his first trip to the south path and opened the gate and let Park onto the estate.


March 28, 1995 Allan Park

Q CAN YOU SHOW US ON THE DIAGRAM, DIRECT THE POINTER TO WHERE YOU SAW HIM ON THE SIDE YARD?
A RIGHT THERE WHERE THE ARROW WAS WHERE THE PATH -- WHERE THE PATH COMES OUT FROM BEHIND THE HOUSE. HE CAME OUT TO JUST ABOUT THE DRIVEWAY, RIGHT THERE, (INDICATING).
Q WAS HE ON THE DRIVEWAY OR WAS HE ON THE GRASS?
A NO, HE WAS OFF A COUPLE FEET.

Q WHAT WAS HE DOING WHEN YOU SAW HIM?
A HE WAS JUST STANDING THERE, FROM WHAT I OBSERVED.
Q OKAY.
COULD YOU TELL WHERE HE WAS LOOKING OR WHAT HE WAS DOING?
A HE LOOKED AT ME AND THEN HE JUST -- HE STARTED TO LOOK, YOU KNOW, IN THE AREA OF THE ROCKINGHAM DRIVEWAY.
Q NOW, WHEN HE WAS LOOKING AT YOU, WHERE WERE YOU?
A I WAS INSIDE THE CAR ON THE PHONE.
Q TALKING TO YOUR BOSS?
A YES.

Q HOW LONG -- NOW, AT THE SAME TIME THAT YOU SAW KATO KAELIN IN THE SIDE YARD, DID YOU SEE ANYTHING ELSE?
A YES. I SAW A FIGURE COME DOWN -- WELL, NOT COME DOWN, BUT I SAW A FIGURE COME INTO THE ENTRANCEWAY OF THE HOUSE JUST ABOUT WHERE THE -- WHERE THE DRIVEWAY STARTS.

Q OKAY.
CAN YOU DESCRIBE WHAT HE LOOKED LIKE, WHAT THAT PERSON LOOKED LIKE.MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: OVERRULED.
THE WITNESS: SIX FOOT, 200 POUNDS.
Q BY MS. CLARK: SIX FOOT, 200 POUNDS?
A ALL DARK CLOTHING.
Q AND COULD YOU TELL ANYTHING ELSE ABOUT THIS PERSON?
A NO.
Q COULD YOU TELL WHETHER THE PERSON WAS CAUCASIAN OR AFRICAN AMERICAN?
A BLACK.

Q AND WHEN YOU SAW THAT PERSON, DID THAT PERSON WALK INTO THE ENTRANCE?
A YES.
Q AFTER THAT PERSON WALKED INTO THE ENTRANCE, WHAT DID YOU DO?
A I THEN PROCEEDED TO -- WELL, I WAS STILL TALKING TO DALE AT THE SAME TIME. I SAID "SOMEBODY'S HERE." HE SAID, "FINE, FINISH THE JOB, TAKE HIM TO THE AIRPORT AND I WILL SEE YOU TOMORROW" OR WHATEVER. I HUNG UP THE PHONE AND I STILL WAITED ANOTHER -- IT WAS ABOUT ANOTHER THIRTY SECONDS OR SO BEFORE I GOT OUT OF THE CAR, BUT I WAS STILL WAITING FOR SOME SOMEBODY TO COME OPEN THE GATE. I FIGURED SOMEBODY WAS GOING TO COME OPEN THE GATE FOR ME. THEY STILL DIDN'T.

Q HOW LONG AFTER YOU SAW THE SIX-FOOT 200-POUND PERSON IN ALL DARK CLOTHING GO INTO THE HOUSE DID YOU CONTINUE TO TALK TO DALE ST. JOHN?
A OH, IT WAS JUST ANYWHERE BETWEEN TEN TO THIRTY SECONDS. IT WASN'T VERY LONG.
Q OKAY.
SO ON THE PHONE BILL IN FRONT OF YOU, SIR, ON THAT LAST CALL WHERE IT INDICATES 10:52 AND 17 SECONDS, DOES IT INDICATE HOW LONG THE PHONE CALL WAS FOR, THE DURATION OF THE CALL?
A UMM, YES, TWO MINUTES AND 55 SECONDS.
Q OKAY. DOES THAT COMPORT WITH YOUR MEMORY OF THE LENGTH OF THE PHONE CALL?
A YES.
Q AND SO YOU WOULD HAVE HUNG UP WITH HIM AT 10:55 AND 12 SECONDS?
A YES.
Q AND IT WAS WITHIN THE LAST TEN TO THIRTY SECONDS OF THAT CALL AT 10 -- OF ENDING THAT CALL AT 10:55 THAT YOU SAW THIS SIX-FOOT 200-POUND PERSON GO INTO THE ENTRANCE?
A YES.

Q BY MS. CLARK: AFTER YOU -- YOU INDICATED THAT YOU SAT FOR ANOTHER THIRTY SECONDS. WHY DID YOU SIT FOR ANOTHER THIRTY SECONDS IN YOUR CAR AFTER YOU HUNG UP?
A BECAUSE I WAS WAITING FOR THE GATE TO BE OPENED. I FIGURED SOMEBODY IS HOME, THEY SAW ME AND THEY ARE GOING TO LET ME IN.
Q AND DID KATO KAELIN COME OVER TO LET YOU IN?
A NO, HE DIDN'T.
Q AND DID THE SIX-FOOT 200-POUND PERSON DRESSED IN ALL DARK CLOTHING COME TO LET YOU IN?
A NO.

Q AND AFTER THIRTY SECONDS WHAT DID YOU DO?
A THAT IS WHEN I GOT BACK UP AND OUT OF THE CAR AND RANG THE INTERCOM. THIS TIME THERE WAS AN ANSWER, WHICH WAS MR. SIMPSON. HE TOLD ME THAT HE OVERSLEPT AND HE JUST GOT OUT OF THE SHOWER AND HE WOULD BE DOWN IN A MINUTE.

Q WAS MR. KAELIN EVER ON THE DRIVEWAY AT THE SAME TIME AS THE SIX-FOOT
200-POUND PERSON THAT WENT INTO THE HOUSE?
A NOT THAT I REMEMBER, NO.

Q BY MS. CLARK: AND AFTER YOU SPOKE TO MR. SIMPSON ON THE INTERCOM, WHAT HAPPENED NEXT?
A I GOT BACK INTO THE CAR AND WAITED ANOTHER TWENTY, THIRTY SECONDS AND BEFORE MR. KAELIN CAME OVER AND OPENED THE GATE.

bobaugust

You are changing the testimony with this statement, "Park then waited to be let in the gate but no one let him in. Kato went on to the south path to investigate the noises." The testimony is that Park nearly simultaneously saw the Black figure and Kato and waited a very short time about a minute before he was let in. Kato testified he had made his first cursory search before he let Park in but saw that the limo was still at the gate after he returned from that search. Therefore, Kato walked to the buzzer right after making his first cursory search-the sighting of the knapsack and the lights Park believed that came from downstairs reinforce this. :) However, I am not trying to prove anything as fact, just showing reasonable doubt.:)

[martin II]

He did not change his testimony as he was not asked by the plaintiffs, if he saw the Black figure go into the entrance before he made the remark "somebody's here". In any event the events were fresher in his mind in 1995 than they were in 1996, unless he is an oddity, imho.

I did notice the differance. i guess Petrocelli knew the problem Parks previous testimony presented.

[William Anthony]

Kato Kaelin testified as to what he did after he heard the noises on his wall.

March 22, 1995 Kato Kaelin

Q WHAT DID YOU DO NEXT?
A OKAY.
I HUNG UP THE PHONE AND I GOT THE FLASHLIGHT AND I WALKED THE PATHWAY, THE FRONT PATHWAY OUT OF MY FRONT DOOR, TO THE DRIVEWAY.

Q OKAY.
NOW, WHEN YOU WENT TO THE DRIVEWAY, YOU SAID YOU TOOK A PATHWAY AND THAT PATHWAY LED YOU THROUGH WHAT?
A YOU GO BY THE POOL AND WHEN YOU GO BY THE POOL YOU GO TO THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE, THE SIDE THAT WOULD FACE ASHFORD, AND THEN YOU GO AND YOU HIT THE DRIVEWAY.

Q ALL RIGHT. WHAT DID YOU SEE WHEN YOU WERE ON THAT PATH?
A ON THIS PATH?
Q YES.
A NOTHING. I DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING UNTIL I GOT TO THE DRIVEWAY.
Q WHEN YOU GOT TO THE DRIVEWAY AREA WHERE THE PATH MEETS THE DRIVEWAY?
A YES.
Q WHAT DID YOU SEE?
A I SAW A LIMOUSINE.
Q WHERE WAS THAT LIMOUSINE?
A IT WAS RIGHT BEHIND THE GATE ON ASHFORD, (INDICATING).
Q WAS IT FACING INTO THAT ASHFORD GATE?
A YES.
Q COULD YOU SEE WHETHER ANYONE WAS INSIDE IT?
A NO.
Q DID YOU GO TO OPEN THE GATE FOR THE LIMOUSINE DRIVER?
A NO.

Q AND YOU INDICATED YOU DID NOT LET THE LIMOUSINE DRIVER IN?
A NO.
Q WHY NOT?
A I THOUGHT EVERYTHING WAS TAKEN CARE OF. I DIDN'T THINK OF -- OF LETTING HIM IN BECAUSE HE COULD GET A BUZZ IN.
Q WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU THOUGHT IT WAS TAKEN CARE OF?
A WELL, I -- I -- MY PHONE DOESN'T RING TO THE GATE, SO I THOUGHT, IF ANYTHING, THE LIMO GUY WOULD KNOW WHAT TO DO, WHAT WAS GOING ON. I DIDN'T KNOW. I THOUGHT HE WAS IN.
Q DID YOU THINK THE DEFENDANT WAS GOING TO LET HIM IN?
MR. SHAPIRO: OBJECTION.
THE WITNESS: YES

Q YOU DID NOT LET THE LIMO DRIVER IN.
WHERE DID YOU GO? WHAT DID YOU DO?
A I CHECKED ON THE NOISE.
Q WHERE -- CAN YOU SHOW US ON THIS PEOPLE'S 66 --
A COME DOWN?

Q -- WHAT YOU DID?
A OKAY.
SO I HAD THE FLASHLIGHT AND THE LIMO WAS HERE, (INDICATING), SO I START WALKING THIS WAY, (INDICATING), AND I HAD THE LIGHT ON AND I WENT -- THERE IS A GATE HERE, (INDICATING), THAT IS -- I COULD PICK UP THE GATE. YOU CAN PICK IT UP, IT IS NOT WORKING, SO I LEANED IT AGAINST THE TREE AND I WENT DOWN JUST A BIT -- THE PEN LIGHT -- THE LIGHT WAS PRETTY DIM. I LOOKED A LITTLE BIT AND THEN I CAME BACK.

Q AND WHY DID YOU STOP ON THE PATHWAY WHERE YOU DID?
A I JUST DID. I COULDN'T SEE. I WAS -- I JUST STOPPED.
Q WHY?
A YOU KNOW, I WAS SCARED, BUT -- THAT IS IT.
Q YOU WERE SCARED?
A SCARED, YEAH.

Q OKAY. AND SO YOU BACKED OUT AGAIN?
A YES, I DID.
Q WHERE DID YOU GO THEN?
A I WENT BACK OUT.
Q OKAY.
A AND THE LIMO WAS STILL THERE AND I THOUGHT MAYBE I SHOULD LET THIS GUY IN, SO I WENT TO THE GATE CONTROL BOX, THERE IS A BUTTON, PRESSED AND IT OPENS UP.

bobaugust

You left out the time that Kato said he first saw the limo, about ten fifty, after waiting two to three minutes after hearing the thumps.:)

[William Anthony]

I did notice the differance. i guess Petrocelli knew the problem Parks previous testimony presented.

Yes, that was obvious. At first I thought he was reading the transcript of Park's criminal trial testimony, leaving out selected portions.

[martin II]

Another issue

If one were to drive a car out of the Rockingham driveway and gate and make a sharp right hand turn to the curb. tha car would be parked exactly
as the Bronco was parked.Front wheels at the curb and the rear wheels 1-2 inches from the curb. It is not possible to make a perfect park after that kind of right turn. imo

[GreenIce]

Well i read that Vanhatter reached out to Clarke for help in writing the search warrant request to the judge and she advised or helped him write it.

I think Lopez's claims that the bronco was at rockingham was damaging to the prosecutions case and they went after her. That she felt she should run before she got into trouble with immagration so she lied to get out of testifying and she and her friend left.I bet she may be back in LA doing the same work. Selling her story was not the only reason JS was tossed. Her ex told Clarke that she could not be trusted. That she was a cronic civil court plaintiff and owed a lot of money to people etc etc. Wagner also says Clarke wanted JS to change the time she saw oj and js refused and this pissed Clarke off.He also says JS admitted that she was at home getting ready to leave at 10;45.

Martin,

Lopez seeing the Bronco was that going to come down to the very same thing that is happening with Park's testimony. A few minutes here, few minutes there, how do you know what time it is, etc. Heck, Judy Brown said she looked at the clocked when she called Nicole and said it was right before 11:00 p.m.

The reason why I think what she heard was more essential to the case is because she backs up what Kato wrote in his book. Kato, according to his book, and it has been a long, long time since I read it, said that he kept hearing the phone inside Simpson's home. Apparently it was a constant pattern. Who would be calling Simpson at that time of night, was it the house phone or the gate phone?

Also think that her testimony about hearing voices right where the DA's tried to say that Simpson jumped over the fence would have destroyed their case. Never have found out why Fuhrman didn't report his conversation with Lopez, but I wonder if she could have seen anyone who would have been standing there. Or could any one see her from there.

[William Anthony]

Martin,

Lopez seeing the Bronco was that going to come down to the very same thing that is happening with Park's testimony. A few minutes here, few minutes there, how do you know what time it is, etc. Heck, Judy Brown said she looked at the clocked when she called Nicole and said it was right before 11:00 p.m.

The reason why I think what she heard was more essential to the case is because she backs up what Kato wrote in his book. Kato, according to his book, and it has been a long, long time since I read it, said that he kept hearing the phone inside Simpson's home. Apparently it was a constant pattern. Who would be calling Simpson at that time of night, was it the house phone or the gate phone?

Also think that her testimony about hearing voices right where the DA's tried to say that Simpson jumped over the fence would have destroyed their case. Never have found out why Fuhrman didn't report his conversation with Lopez, but I wonder if she could have seen anyone who would have been standing there. Or could any one see her from there.

Good morning, Ms. GreenIce,

I find your last paragraph to be intriguing.

[William Anthony]

November 2oth,-Park.

"Again, after you saw the person go into the house and you saw lights illuminate, you got off the phone, right?

A. Correct.

Q. And then what happened?

A. After I got off the phone, I sat in the car for another few seconds.

Q. Why?

A. I was -- since somebody was home, I figured they were going to open the gate for me.

Q. And did someone open the gate for you?

A. Not at that time, no.

Q. How long did you wait in the car for someone to open the gate for you after you got off the phone?

A. Fifteen, thirty seconds, in between there. I can't be exact."

The time it would have taken Kato to walk from the south pathway to the intercom.

[bobaugust]

Exactly, Kato saw the limo and then did his first cursory search. Park didn't see him at that time as the phone records indicate he was talking to his mother. Kato then backed out and that is when Park saw him for the first time when he almost simultaneously saw the Black figure. Park hangs up the phone shortly thereafter, rings the buzzer seeing Kato, Kato let's him in and does his second cursory search. Allowing for the first cursory search, this makes the time of Kato's exit from his quarters consistent with ten forty five.

William, you’re wrong. Park saw Kaelin with a flashlight coming around the NORTH side of Simpson’s house, which was to the left of the Ashford gate. Kaelin was coming from his room not the south path. Kaelin had to walk past the Ashford gate to get to the driveway that would take him to Simpson’s garage to get to the south path. When Kaelin reached the driveway to Park’s left Park saw Simpson at the front of the house walk into the light of the front entry way and open the front door and enter the house. Kaelin didn’t back out of anything. Kaelin walked past the front entrance of Simpson’s home, around the garage and down the south path. On this first trip Kaelin never got any further than the end of the garage before he turned around and walk back around the garage to the driveway and then to the Ashford gate. That’s when he opened the gate for Park.

http://bobaugust.com/aerialxx.jpg

You really have to stop referring to the estimated times Kaelin testified to since they were unsupported guesses and were not correct as to the actual time of day these events happened.

bobaugust

[bobaugust]

You are changing the testimony with this statement, "Park then waited to be let in the gate but no one let him in. Kato went on to the south path to investigate the noises." The testimony is that Park nearly simultaneously saw the Black figure and Kato and waited a very short time about a minute before he was let in. Kato testified he had made his first cursory search before he let Park in but saw that the limo was still at the gate after he returned from that search. Therefore, Kato walked to the buzzer right after making his first cursory search-the sighting of the knapsack and the lights Park believed that came from downstairs reinforce this. :) However, I am not trying to prove anything as fact, just showing reasonable doubt.:)

No I’m not changing anything. Allan Park testified he first saw Kaelin come from around north side of the house with a flashlight. And then almost simultaneously he saw Simpson enter the light of the front entrance of the house, enter the front door, and lights come on downstairs in the house. Based on Allan Park’s telephone records this event happened just before 10:55.

After Park saw Simpson enter his house, it was not a minute before Kaelin let him in. Park waited in the limo and when no one let him in he got out and used the intercom again. This time Simpson answered it for the first time that night. They had a short conversation and Park returned to the limo and waited some more until Kaelin came back from the south path and opened the gate and let him in.

bobaugust

[bobaugust]

You left out the time that Kato said he first saw the limo, about ten fifty, after waiting two to three minutes after hearing the thumps.:)

Kaelin’s time estimates were only guesses. Kaelin never looked at a clock. The only times that are reliable regarding this are the times on telephone records. After about two to three minutes after Kaelin heard the noises on the back wall of his room Kaelin saw the limo parked at the Ashford gate and Park saw Kaelin. That time is documented as shortly before 10:55.

bobaugust

[William Anthony]

William, you’re wrong. Park saw Kaelin with a flashlight coming around the NORTH side of Simpson’s house, which was to the left of the Ashford gate. Kaelin was coming from his room not the south path. Kaelin had to walk past the Ashford gate to get to the driveway that would take him to Simpson’s garage to get to the south path. When Kaelin reached the driveway to Park’s left Park saw Simpson at the front of the house walk into the light of the front entry way and open the front door and enter the house. Kaelin didn’t back out of anything. Kaelin walked past the front entrance of Simpson’s home, around the garage and down the south path. On this first trip Kaelin never got any further than the end of the garage before he turned around and walk back around the garage to the driveway and then to the Ashford gate. That’s when he opened the gate for Park.

http://bobaugust.com/aerialxx.jpg

You really have to stop referring to the estimated times Kaelin testified to since they were unsupported guesses and were not correct as to the actual time of day these events happened.

bobaugust

See post 2700.:) Kato had finished his first cursory search by the time Park saw Kato and the Black figure walk into the entrance, which is when Park said he first saw Kato. Even if one assumes that Simpson was returning from Bundy and dropping off the knapsack at that time, Kato did not see the sack until he finished his first cursory search, which would place him behind his quarters at that time. Allowing for the two to three minute wait to go do his first cursory search, then doing the search and backing out and seeing Simpson, it is consistent with the ten forty five sound of the thumps and Parks phone records and contradicts Ms. Shively. Ergo, you have reasonable doubt.:) If one assumes that Simpson was in the house and brought the knapsack out, then you really have reasonable doubt, because that would implausibly suggest that Simpson was able to enter the home and come out to place the knapsack without Park or Kato seeing him until he went back into the home, smile.

[martin II]

Martin,

Lopez seeing the Bronco was that going to come down to the very same thing that is happening with Park's testimony. A few minutes here, few minutes there, how do you know what time it is, etc. Heck, Judy Brown said she looked at the clocked when she called Nicole and said it was right before 11:00 p.m.

The reason why I think what she heard was more essential to the case is because she backs up what Kato wrote in his book. Kato, according to his book, and it has been a long, long time since I read it, said that he kept hearing the phone inside Simpson's home. Apparently it was a constant pattern. Who would be calling Simpson at that time of night, was it the house phone or the gate phone?

Also think that her testimony about hearing voices right where the DA's tried to say that Simpson jumped over the fence would have destroyed their case. Never have found out why Fuhrman didn't report his conversation with Lopez, but I wonder if she could have seen anyone who would have been standing there. Or could any one see her from there.

Furhman did not report his interview with Lopez because it was damaging to the case and he did not want to put it in his notes/record.

If someone was in that car parked in front of the Salangers lot they would have been able to see her when she was at the the intersection of the salangers and Simpsons lot.

If the phone ringing was constant then it was the house phone because the gate phone cut of after a few rings.
Lopez said she heard voices comming from Simpsons lot at about 12:00 midnight. Who was that.

Parks criminal trial testimony made it clear he was talking about OJ when he said SOMEONE HOME. Petrocelli realized this would not work for him so he did not ask Park the same question he was asked in the criminal trial.He worded his question in a way where Park was able to give a slightly different answer
by talking about the white male sighting at the same time as he saw oj. this allowed some to shift Parks answer of when he said someone home from Talking about oj to talking about Kato.

But the problem still stands. Park saw the AA go into the house and the porch lights came on but according to Katos testimony he was in the south walkway when the lights came on.
This issue is just as important as Lopez's testimony when you look at how it destroyed the prosecutios case.If Kato heard the noise at 10:45 then game over for the prosecution.All the other evidence is worthless.imo

[tv]

TV
i think in your rush to have a visit with your sister you may have not seen this post to you.


TV

You do agree that KATO was in the south walkway when Park saw the porch lights come on.right.

I believe that Kato was to the left of the Ashford gate when Park saw him. The testimony is very clear to me.

[William Anthony]

Kaelin’s time estimates were only guesses. Kaelin never looked at a clock. The only times that are reliable regarding this are the times on telephone records. After about two to three minutes after Kaelin heard the noises on the back wall of his room Kaelin saw the limo parked at the Ashford gate and Park saw Kaelin. That time is documented as shortly before 10:55.

bobaugust

Kato saw the limo when he exited his quarters but Park did not see him as he was on the phone with his mommy, as supported by the phone records.:) The only way your time fits is if you discredit Kato in an effort to make Ms. Shively's testimony fit. That is because one assumes that Simpson is the killer. However, the prosecution had to prove that beyond a reasonable doubt based on the evidence they presented. The prosecution had contact with the witnesses and would have been in a position to judge their credibility, imho. They chose Kato and Park and disregarded Ms. Shively. They did Martz the same way.:) Reasonable doubt.:)

[tv]

He was wrong the lightrs that came on were the coach/ porch lights.But leave it to Park to be confused.
martin, Park was there, not you. I tend to believe his version more than yours.

[martin II]

Kaelin’s time estimates were only guesses. Kaelin never looked at a clock. The only times that are reliable regarding this are the times on telephone records. After about two to three minutes after Kaelin heard the noises on the back wall of his room Kaelin saw the limo parked at the Ashford gate and Park saw Kaelin. That time is documented as shortly before 10:55.

bobaugust

Well then shortly before 10:55 is 10:48 10:49 10:50

[tv]

I am getting sleepy and overlooked this post until now. You know the one where he said he proved Simpson guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in the civil murder trial and I do forget the most recent one that was recently placed on the forum. I will wish all a pleasant night and sweet dreams. :seeya:No false claim there. He did exactly that.

[William Anthony]

I believe that Kato was to the left of the Ashford gate when Park saw him. The testimony is very clear to me.

The testimony is clear to me that he did not see Kato until after Kato had finished his first cursory search, as he simultaneously saw someone alleged to have been Simpson when he first saw Kato. :) Reasonable doubt.

[William Anthony]

No false claim there. He did exactly that.

Ah, but Simpson was not on trial for murder and there was not even a finding that Simpson murdered anyone, despite Petrocelli's braggadocios false claims.

[martin II]

martin, Park was there, not you. I tend to believe his version more than yours.

TV

It was not my version it was Katos.

kATO testified that the lights that came on when he was in the south walkway were the porch/coach lights over the front porch.

[William Anthony]

Well then shortly before 10:55 is 10:48 10:49 10:50

Park gave time estimates-fifteen to thirty seconds, thirty seconds before he hung up the phone, so forth and so on. What makes his more credible than Kato's? :) Oh, yes, if you assumeSimpson was the murderer, you have to discredit Kato and credit Park. That is what and why Ms. Clark had Kato declared hostile.:)

[martin II]

I believe that Kato was to the left of the Ashford gate when Park saw him. The testimony is very clear to me.

I think you may not have understood my question.
Do you agree that Kato was in the south walkway when the lights came on??
From my perspective it would be easy to answer yes or no.But that is up to you as long as you are willing to help me by answering the question and not talking about something else.:):cool:

[weezer]

He changed his testimony from what he said in williams post.

But he could not change the fact that when he saw the lights go on Kato was in the south walkway.

I assume since you repeated william's post that you took the time to verify it. I have been unable to find anything but the criminal trial transcript. Can you give me a link or date that the questioning was that you are relying on?

[tv]

I think you may not have understood my question.
Do you agree that Kato was in the south walkway when the lights came on??
From my perspective it would be easy to answer yes or no.But that is up to you as long as you are willing to help me by answering the question and not talking about something else.:):cool: I don't really know why you're asking me this question. Park's testimony has been posted several times. Is there something that you're trying to get me to admit that will support your position?

[martin II]

Park gave time estimates-fifteen to thirty seconds, thirty seconds before he hung up the phone, so forth and so on. What makes his more credible than Kato's? :) Oh, yes, if you assumeSimpson was the murderer, you have to discredit Kato and credit Park. That is what and why Ms. Clark had Kato declared hostile.:)

You are so correct
it is the same when Park testified that he clearly was talking about seeing the AA and the lights cam on and then testifies in a way to give some the excuse of saying he was talking about the white guy when he said someone home.Well seeing the white guy helps our case so we just toss his earlier testimony because we say his white guy testimony is the truth.imo

[tv]

Rosa Lopez uncovered the issue of where oj was and that was end game for the prosecution. It was also a way not to investigate the voices she heard on ojs property at various times and the mystery car parked on rockingham south of the gate,Rosa Lopez said she heard young boys giggling until the wee hours of the morning. If she was so truthful and made such a great witness why didn't Johnnie Cochran use her in the trial? Also, why did she pretend not to understand or speak English well which turned out to be a lie?

[weezer]

Rosa Lopez said she heard young boys giggling until the wee hours of the morning. If she was so truthful and made such a great witness why didn't Johnnie Cochran use her in the trial? Also, why did she pretend not to understand or speak English well which turned out to be a lie?

and why would the defense try to hide -- to the point of being sanctioned -- her taped interview with them? you don't suppose they figured out that her version couldn't have happened do you? :eek:

[William Anthony]

Rosa Lopez said she heard young boys giggling until the wee hours of the morning. If she was so truthful and made such a great witness why didn't Johnnie Cochran use her in the trial? Also, why did she pretend not to understand or speak English well which turned out to be a lie?

Oops, another person who the defense called is being called a liar.:) I can say some things in spanish and read some things but I would not say I spoke Spanish. Buenos Diaz, Senorita. :)

[William Anthony]

I assume since you repeated william's post that you took the time to verify it. I have been unable to find anything but the criminal trial transcript. Can you give me a link or date that the questioning was that you are relying on?

See post 2684, IIRC.

[tv]

Oops, another person who the defense called is being called a liar.:) I can say some things in spanish and read some things but I would not say I spoke Spanish. Buenos Diaz, Senorita. :)
You didn't answer one question I asked but I will correct your Spanish. It's Senora.

[William Anthony]

You didn't answer one question I asked but I will correct your Spanish. It's Senora.

I thought I answered the last one. As to the other one, the answer is they did not need to.

[tv]

I thought I answered the last one. As to the other one, the answer is they did not need to.
Why did he try to suppress the video? I'm sure the magnificent one had a magnificent reason.

[William Anthony]

Why did he try to suppress the video? I'm sure the magnificent one had a magnificent reason.

I am sure he gave his magnificent reasons in his argument to suppress but, pray tell, what are you talking about date, please?

[Kate Sachel]

Martin,

When I read in Faye's book how they were playing telephone tag all day, my first thought was, where did Faye think she was, in a hotel? She was in a lock down facility, she was monitored from the moment she woke up until the moment she went to bed. Does she really expect us to believe that she had total freedom to make any type of phone calls she wanted--like she would be the first person who ever tried to call someone to get her out or to score some drugs?

Also, if Faye is telling the truth about her drug issues, she would have been angry with Nicole for being at the intervention. She would have been protesting her being in a place where she did not need to be. The tone her phone call would not have been bright eyed and buschy tail, IMO.

There is another point to consider. What would Justin and Sydney say about phone calls between their mother and Faye that day? Was Nicole avoiding Faye's phone calls? Did someone tell Nicole that the next time Faye calls, she better pick up and listen?

With all due respect, are you really speaking factually as to what Faye's thought process toward Nicole would have been? My mother was a drug addict who went back and forth from rehabilitation and I can assure you that the thought process you speak of is not what you find in every individual that encounters this scenario. Because my mother recognized her addiction, and wanted help, she was never angry with anyone in all of the interventions that I was a part of. In fact, she was grateful. She was grateful to be so loved by those of us who cared enough to hold such interventions.

There has been a lot of references to what rehabilitation centers allow regarding phone calls, visitors, etc. My own mother did not have restrictions on phone calls, nor on visitors. In fact, she had visiting hours daily that are set up much like visiting hours in a hospital.

Kate

[William Anthony]

Why did he try to suppress the video? I'm sure the magnificent one had a magnificent reason.

Never mind. I think I found what you were saying. It was a discovery violation, failure to disclose. Is this what you mean?

[tv]

I am sure he gave his magnificent reasons in his argument to suppress but, pray tell, what are you talking about date, please?

February 27, 1995 - yes that's what I mean. Rosa Lopez had nothing to add to the defense position. She couldn't be sure about the Bronco and the person she said could back up her story considered her a liar. That's the big mystery of Rosa Lopez.

[William Anthony]

February 27, 1995 - yes that's what I mean. Rosa Lopez had nothing to add to the defense position. She couldn't be sure about the Bronco and the person she said could back up her story considered her a liar. That's the big mystery of Rosa Lopez.

So, the magnificent one did his best to act in the best interest of his client, suffered the slings and arrows and rebuke of the judge and went on to win the case. :)