Random Discussions On The Case

[tv]

I never thought about that.He would have just relaxed and enjoyed his conversation and Park would not have had to lie about seeing him.imo

There is no evidence that Park lied and he had absolutely no reason to lie. So far, everyone that touches this case is a liar except OJ Simpson and Johnnie Cochran. Not very realistic. It's very hard to discuss this case with the two of you when you constantly accuse the witnesses of lying.

[martin II]

martin, I can see by your post #2678 that you can't really decide what you believe about the times. Whatever suits OJ Simpson's alibi are the times you'll go with is my guess.

Nope
there can always be more than one opinion or statement of fact on a case.
i think the one i posted has quality.

[weezer]

Fgump2,

When Simpson called the Browns house, the youngest sister was screaming that he had killed "THEM". You may be right, he may have known that there was a second victim before he got back to LA but the police were not the only one's who could have told them there was someone else as well. Didn't OJ spend most of the trip back to LA on the phone? Actually, it was Denise in the background and she said "He killed her."

However, if you are saying is true, that he knew about the second victim even before he left for Chicago, only confirms my conviction that there was no way he would let the kids go the Browns before he had a chance to talk to them, to find out what they may have heard or seen that night, what questions did the police ask them, etc. arnelle told him on the phone that LE kept telling her she HAD to go get the kids. Since arnelle evidently felt (and said) she was not capable, it doesn't sound like orenthal was in on the decision where the children would go.

And I don't think it is a crime against humanity for any of the cops to ask the kids if they knew where there father was. Nor do I think it is a crime if they just listened to the kids and just repeated what the kids said. Whether or not it would be 'a crime against humanity' for LE to have talked to the children, the facts are that they didn't.

In his interview, he told the detectives he knew he was the prime suspect and they were not telling him anything other then he had blood at his house.

all of orenthal's actions from the phone call informing him of Nicole's death right through the suicide note and Bronco ride indicate his guilt.

[weezer]

Post proof that he did.

nah -- you post proof that he didn't.

[weezer]

I am totally surprised, now. You want to credit Park's time estimates but discredit Kato's. :) However, and I do apologize to Ms. Tvdinner, as I can see why she stated that Park saw Kato at approximately ten fifty four. However, You are not allowing for the time it took the figure to walk into the house, as to what significance it has to do with the time of the thumps, which was the original topic of discussion but consider this.

"Q: SO AT APPROXIMATELY WHAT TIME WAS IT THAT YOU EXITED YOUR ROOM TO GO OUT TO THE PATHWAY?

A: SO IT WAS ABOUT TWO TO THREE MINUTES AFTER THAT TIME, 10:43, 10:44.

Q: OKAY. AND WHEN YOU WENT OUT TO THE PATHWAY, DID YOU -- WHERE YOU WENT OUT ON THE LAWN AREA?

A: YEAH, BUT I STAYED ON THIS PATH, (INDICATING).

Q: ALL RIGHT. WHAT DID YOU SEE WHEN YOU WERE ON THAT PATH?

A: ON THIS PATH?

Q: YES.

A: NOTHING. I DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING UNTIL I GOT TO THE DRIVEWAY.

Q: WHEN YOU GOT TO THE DRIVEWAY AREA WHERE THE PATH MEETS THE DRIVEWAY?

A: YES.

Q: WHAT DID YOU SEE?

A: I SAW A LIMOUSINE.

Q: WHERE WAS THAT LIMOUSINE?

A: IT WAS RIGHT BEHIND THE GATE ON ASHFORD, (INDICATING).

Q: WAS IT FACING INTO THAT ASHFORD GATE?

A: YES.

Q: COULD YOU SEE WHETHER ANYONE WAS INSIDE IT?

A: NO.

Q: DID YOU GO TO OPEN THE GATE FOR THE LIMOUSINE DRIVER?

A: NO.

Q: YOU CAN TAKE YOUR SEAT.

A: (WITNESS COMPLIES.)

MR. SHAPIRO: YOUR HONOR, CAN WE --

THE COURT: EXCUSE ME, MISS CLARK. DO WE NEED THE POSTER?

MS. CLARK: YES. WE ARE GOING TO USE IT AGAIN VERY SHORTLY.

THE COURT: OKAY.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: NOW, CAN YOU TELL US, SIR, WHETHER OR NOT THE HEADLIGHTS OF THAT LIMOUSINE WERE ON?

A: I DON'T THINK THEY WERE ON.

Q: OKAY. SO WAS IT DARK IN THAT AREA?

A: YES.

Q: AND CAN YOU TELL US, SIR, WHETHER THE DRIVEWAY WAS DARK?

A: YES. THERE IS LITTLE LIGHTS BARELY THAT ARE VERY DIM. I THINK ONE OR TWO OF THOSE WERE ON BY THE DRIVEWAY, BUT DARK.

Q: WHERE ON THE DRIVEWAY ARE THOSE LIGHTS?

A: (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.)

Q: CAN YOU SHOW US.

A: I THINK IF I REMEMBER THEY WERE LIKE HERE, (INDICATING), MAYBE ONE HERE, (INDICATING).

Q: OKAY. DO YOU WANT TO DO THAT ONE MORE TIME SO COUNSEL CAN SEE YOU.

A: I THINK I REMEMBER THAT LIKE HERE, A LAMP LIGHT HERE, AND MAYBE THERE, (INDICATING).

MS. CLARK: FOR THE RECORD, THE WITNESS HAS POINTED TO THE EDGE OF THE DRIVEWAY, THAT WOULD BE THE LEFT BORDER OF THE DRIVEWAY JUST BELOW THE TREE OVER WHICH IS WRITTEN "GATE CONTROL BOX," AND THEN BELOW THAT TO THE LEFT OF THE OTHER TREE ON THAT SAME EDGE OF THE DRIVEWAY, THE LEFT EDGE. GO AHEAD, YOU CAN SIT DOWN.

THE WITNESS: (WITNESS COMPLIES.)

Q: BY MS. CLARK: AND -- SO YOU INDICATED THOSE ARE DIM LIGHTS?

A: YES.

Q: AND THE DRIVEWAY WAS BASICALLY IN DARKNESS?

A: YES.

Q: AND YOU INDICATED YOU DID NOT LET THE LIMOUSINE DRIVER IN?

A: NO.

Q: WHY NOT?

A: I THOUGHT EVERYTHING WAS TAKEN CARE OF. I DIDN'T THINK OF -- OF LETTING HIM IN BECAUSE HE COULD GET A BUZZ IN.

Q: WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU THOUGHT IT WAS TAKEN CARE OF?

A: WELL, I -- I -- MY PHONE DOESN'T RING TO THE GATE, SO I THOUGHT, IF ANYTHING, THE LIMO GUY WOULD KNOW WHAT TO DO, WHAT WAS GOING ON. I DIDN'T KNOW. I THOUGHT HE WAS IN.

Q: DID YOU THINK THE DEFENDANT WAS GOING TO LET HIM IN?

MR. SHAPIRO: OBJECTION.

THE WITNESS: YES.

MR. SHAPIRO: CALLS FOR SPECULATION.

THE COURT: SUSTAINED. THE JURY IS TO DISREGARD.

MS. CLARK: I'M ASKING FOR HIS STATE OF MIND, YOUR HONOR.

THE COURT: CALLS FOR SPECULATION, DID HE THINK THAT THIS DEFENDANT WAS GOING TO DO SOMETHING. THAT IS CALLING FOR SPECULATION. PROCEED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO US WHY YOU DID NOT LET THE LIMO DRIVER IN?

A: (NO AUDIBLE RESPONSE.)

Q: WHAT WERE YOU THINKING ABOUT? WHAT LED YOU NOT TO LET HIM IN?

A: BECAUSE I THOUGHT SOMEONE HAD TALKED TO HIM AND THAT IS WHY HE WAS OUT THERE. THERE WAS A REASON THAT HE WAS WAITING THERE. I DIDN'T -- YOU KNOW, I -- I DIDN'T KNOW WHY HE WASN'T IN, BUT I DIDN'T QUESTION IT.

Q: DID YOU EXPECT -- WHAT WERE YOU EXPECTING?

MR. SHAPIRO: OBJECTION, IRRELEVANT.

THE COURT: GOES TO HIS SUBSEQUENT CONDUCT. OVERRULED. YOU CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION.

THE WITNESS: OH, THERE IS A PHONE, SO IF THERE WAS A LIMO DRIVER THE GATE WOULD OPEN UP, HE WOULD BE BUZZED IN.

Q: DID YOU THINK THE DEFENDANT WAS HOME?

MR. SHAPIRO: OBJECTION, IRRELEVANT.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

MR. SHAPIRO: CALLS FOR SPECULATION.

THE COURT: OVERRULED.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: ANSWER.

A: YES.

THE COURT: NEXT QUESTION.

Q: BY MS. CLARK: NOW, APPROXIMATELY WHAT TIME WAS IT WHEN YOU THINK YOU SAW THE LIMO DRIVER -- EXCUSE ME -- THE LIMOUSINE PARKED AT THE ASHFORD GATE?

A: ABOUT 10:50.

Q: OKAY. WHEN YOU PASSED BY THE BACK OF THE HOUSE TO GO OUT ONTO THAT LAWN AREA AND TAKE THAT PATH DOWN TO THE DRIVEWAY, DID YOU NOTICE WHETHER THERE WERE ANY LIGHTS ON IN THE HOUSE?

A: UMM, I THOUGHT THE LIGHTS WERE ON UPSTAIRS AND NOT DOWN, IF I REMEMBER.

Q: DID IT SEEM TO BE DARK DOWNSTAIRS?

A: YES.

Q: AND YOU THOUGHT --

A: TO MY RECOLLECTION IT WAS DARK.

Q: YOU THOUGHT THERE WAS A LIGHT ON UPSTAIRS?

A: YES.

Q: LET ME BACK UP FOR A MINUTE. YOU INDICATED THAT YOU HEARD THE THUMPS ON THE WALL AT APPROXIMATELY 10:40 TO 10:45. BEFORE HEARING THE THUMPS YOU WERE TALKING ON THE PHONE TO RACHEL?

A: YES.

Q: AFTER HEARING THE THUMPS, WERE YOU STILL TALKING ON THE PHONE TO RACHEL?

A: YES. "

I see where you confusion is -- you believe 'approximate' is more reliable than the telephone records.

[William Anthony]

There is no evidence that Park lied and he had absolutely no reason to lie. So far, everyone that touches this case is a liar except OJ Simpson and Johnnie Cochran. Not very realistic. It's very hard to discuss this case with the two of you when you constantly accuse the witnesses of lying.

I have accused no one of lying, save one that was proven to so do, MF, while the Gs constantly accuse the defense and their witnesses of lying. Therefore, I do not know of which two you are speaking.

[William Anthony]

I see where you confusion is -- you believe 'approximate' is more reliable than the telephone records.

I have thoroughly explained my position and have given a detailed analysis of the relevant testimonies so that the records and the time estimates of all those relevant witnesses fit neatly into a plausible and realistic scenario. It is up to you should you chose not to believe what is obvious by my detailed analysis. :)

[weezer]

I did check and yes she was allowed to call him hostile but the gist of her questions seem to be to want Kato to say that Simpson was upset, which failed, imho. Ms. Clark did not dispute the ten forty five time of the thumps in her hostile questioning.

IIRC, kato also has said that he was in fear after the murders because orenthal was constantly calling him and asking what he was telling LE.

[weezer]

If there are people, who are in jail because of convincing evidence, then, yes, they should be free, as the standard is higher than that for incarceration-beyond a reasonable doubt. :) Yes, I do believe that is a very high standard to meet. I don't see how Parks testimony rises to that level, as he couldn't say what Simpson was doing at anytime prior to ten fifty five on the night of the murders.

I'm afraid you've replaced 'reasonable' with 'no' and left out completely the 'reasonable.' ;)

[martin II]

There is no evidence that Park lied and he had absolutely no reason to lie. So far, everyone that touches this case is a liar except OJ Simpson and Johnnie Cochran. Not very realistic. It's very hard to discuss this case with the two of you when you constantly accuse the witnesses of lying.


if oj said he had a cup of water on 6/12 there are those that would say he lied. not evetryone lied in this case but some did. you may look at Mazzola and say simple mistake. i look at all of her activities including her little investigation in the lab to find the correct envelopes and i say yes she was forced to lie. I tend to see Park as the jury did. Just too many conflicks in his testimony and all of them go against oj. He seemed to add what he learned after 6/12 to his testinmony.I read a comment by him today where he said he was dissapointed in the verdict so it sounds like he did have a dog in that fight.

TV there are some here that have accused and attacked every member of the defense and all of ojs friends and his family members.

One very nasty post accuses oj of wearing ladies underwear not to mention the relentless attacks on Arnell. I am not talking about you as i have learned that you do as a woman and person have limits for yourself as to what you will say on a public message board.This causes me to respect you as a person. But some don't.imo

[William Anthony]

I'm afraid you've replaced 'reasonable' with 'no' and left out completely the 'reasonable.' ;)

Clear and convincing evidence is a standard used in a civil trial, which is higher than by a preponderance of the evidence, while beyond a reasonable doubt is the standard required prior to incarceration after a trial and is higher than all the rest. The prosecution must not rely on reasonable doubt but must show proof beyond a doubt that is reasonable.

[weezer]

I have thoroughly explained my position and have given a detailed analysis of the relevant testimonies so that the records and the time estimates of all those relevant witnesses fit neatly into a plausible and realistic scenario. It is up to you should you chose not to believe what is obvious by my detailed analysis. :)

your theory fits neatly into YOUR scenario NOT into the actual facts of the case. It is fantasy to believe that everyone from the houseguest, limo driver, guy sitting next to him on the airplane, the stewardess, 40+ LE, the prosecutor's office, three separate labs -- I could go on and on -- all collaborated to frame orenthal. The evidence in the case is that on the night orenthal james simpson murdered Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown, he left his blood, hair, fiber, glove, hat and size 12 pigeon-toed Bruno Magli footprints at the murder scene.

[William Anthony]

your theory fits neatly into YOUR scenario NOT into the actual facts of the case. It is fantasy to believe that everyone from the houseguest, limo driver, guy sitting next to him on the airplane, the stewardess, 40+ LE, the prosecutor's office, three separate labs -- I could go on and on -- all collaborated to frame orenthal. The evidence in the case is that on the night orenthal james simpson murdered Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown, he left his blood, hair, fiber, glove, hat and size 12 pigeon-toed Bruno Magli footprints at the murder scene.

The facts in this case are these, which the jury decided were not able to prove Simpson guilty of murder beyond a reasonable doubt; the prosecution failed to put forth a plausible theory of the murders, the prosecution failed to reasonably refute the evidence of contamination, cross contamination, poor evidence handling and collection techniques; the prosecution failed to refute the evidence of garbage in garbage out as acquiesced to by the plaintiff's expert; the prosecution place incredible evidence of how a blood type degrades; the prosecution put on the testimony of an expert that should have been dead and who provided evidence of blood planting; the prosecution put on witnesses and LE members, who had trouble with telling the truth, and we now know that the junk crafts suffer serious problems, the prosecution's time line failed miserably, the prosecution failed to produce the shoes and murder weapon which they talked incessantly about, the prosecution produced gloves that did not fit and the prosecution put on witnesses that were impeached by their own evidence (records), to name a few.

[weezer]

The facts in this case are these, which the jury decided were not able to prove Simpson guilty of murder beyond a reasonable doubt; the prosecution failed to put forth a plausible theory of the murders, the prosecution failed to reasonably refute the evidence of contamination, cross contamination, poor evidence handling and collection techniques; the prosecution failed to refute the evidence of garbage in garbage out as acquiesced to by the plaintiff's expert; the prosecution place incredible evidence of how a blood type degrades; the prosecution put on the testimony of an expert that should have been dead and who provided evidence of blood planting; the prosecution put on witnesses and LE members, who had trouble with telling the truth, and we now know that the junk crafts suffer serious problems, the prosecution's time line failed miserably, the prosecution failed to produce the shoes and murder weapon which they talked incessantly about, the prosecution produced gloves that did not fit and the prosecution put on witnesses that were impeached by their own evidence (records), to name a few.

you are deluding yourself if you actually believe the criminal jury weighed the actual evidence in this case. We know that they did not understand DNA, we know that they believed the glove fit, we know that they had their own agenda as evidenced by the black power salute and the statement 'we take care of our own.'

[weezer]

Clear and convincing evidence is a standard used in a civil trial, which is higher than by a preponderance of the evidence, while beyond a reasonable doubt is the standard required prior to incarceration after a trial and is higher than all the rest. The prosecution must not rely on reasonable doubt but must show proof beyond a doubt that is reasonable.

and a majority of the world believed and believes that orenthal james simpson murdered Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown beyond a reasonable doubt.

[William Anthony]

you are deluding yourself if you actually believe the criminal jury weighed the actual evidence in this case. We know that they did not understand DNA, we know that they believed the glove fit, we know that they had their own agenda as evidenced by the black power salute and the statement 'we take care of our own.'

I doubt very few of us understand DNA. Two out of twelve believed the glove fit but since the verdict was unanimous for not guilty, then I firmly believed they considered the things I have mentioned. I have also explained the statement and the salute. However, you may disregard my explanation as reasonable and find reasonable the explanation of a convicted perjurer that his lie was irrelevant, even though he was convicted of lying under oath about a material fact in the trial. Reasonableness like beauty is in the eye of the beholder. :)

[William Anthony]

and a majority of the world believed and believes that orenthal james simpson murdered Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown beyond a reasonable doubt.

They may believe that, which in no way refutes that the prosecution failed to prove that.:)

[weezer]

I doubt very few of us understand DNA. Two out of twelve believed the glove fit but since the verdict was unanimous for not guilty, then I firmly believed they considered the things I have mentioned. I have also explained the statement and the salute. However, you may disregard my explanation as reasonable and find reasonable the explanation of a convicted perjurer that his lie was irrelevant, even though he was convicted of lying under oath about a material fact in the trial. Reasonableness like beauty is in the eye of the beholder. :)

Fuhrman's 'lie' about words used in a screenplay was not relevant to the trial nor was it a material fact. Your hate for LE overrides your common sense.

[William Anthony]

Fuhrman's 'lie' about words used in a screenplay was not relevant to the trial nor was it a material fact. Your hate for LE overrides your common sense.

My common sense tells me he was convicted of perjury. What does your common sense tell you?:)

[weezer]

They may believe that, which in no way refutes that the prosecution failed to prove that.:)

therein lies the difference: the evidence proved orenthal james simpson to be the murderer.

[weezer]

My common sense tells me he was convicted of perjury. What does your common sense tell you?:)

my common sense tells me that words used in a screenplay had no part in this murder trial.

[martin II]

They may believe that, which in no way refutes that the prosecution failed to prove that.:)

I think the Majority of the world claim works but only if one looks at a minority of the world as the majority.

[William Anthony]

my common sense tells me that words used in a screenplay had no part in this murder trial.

Perhaps, you need some professional training to add to that common sense.

http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/p032.htm

[martin II]

Katos small ears and the fact that he did HEAR bangs,knocks noise comming from the wall in the south walkway solves the case and proves oj Not guilty.

I am pleased that this fine jury made up outstanding regular citizens were able to listen to all the testimony and evidence and understand that the prosecution failed to prove their many unprovable claims and found that the prosecution did not prove their case beyond a reasonable dount. They decided that it was wrong to rubber stamp the nonsense presented by the prosecution and that it was their duty to uphold justice.imo

[weezer]

Katos small ears and the fact that he did HEAR bangs,knocks noise comming from the wall in the south walkway solves the case and proves oj Not guilty.

I am pleased that this fine jury made up outstanding regular citizens were able to listen to all the testimony and evidence and understand that the prosecution failed to prove their many unprovable claims and found that the prosecution did not prove their case beyond a reasonable dount. They decided that it was wrong to rubber stamp the nonsense presented by the prosecution and that it was their duty to uphold justice.imo

yep -- especially after they 'got deliberated'!

[William Anthony]

http://books.google.com/books?id=rDgZ1CYepoUC&pg=PA46&lpg=PA46&dq=credibility+of+the+witness+is+always+an+issue&source=bl&ots=SEzRzsvnIp&sig=PnYBZpia0k8exeNZeKv_K_bwSlY&hl=en&ei=8JHOSZiLCdjelQe9n8TvCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result

[martin II]

My common sense tells me he was convicted of perjury. What does your common sense tell you?:)

Every place i have ever been a lie is a lie.

[William Anthony]

Every place i have ever been a lie is a lie.

They say a lie travels faster than the truth. I don't know. The truth about this lie traveled from California to North Carolina, IIRC, and back to California and then throughout the world. :)

[tv]

I have accused no one of lying, save one that was proven to so do, MF, while the Gs constantly accuse the defense and their witnesses of lying. Therefore, I do not know of which two you are speaking.

You certainly had no objection when martin called him a liar. It's called tacit agreement, something you've accused me of several times.

Originally Posted by martin II
I never thought about that.He would have just relaxed and enjoyed his conversation and Park would not have had to lie about seeing him.imo

Response by William
I wonder how he felt when a bunch of men in suits woke him up in the middle of the night, asking him questions.

[tv]

yep -- especially after they 'got deliberated'!

You know I've never been called for jury duty. I want to get deliberated! :rolleyes:

[martin II]

Got deliberated sounds about right.
The judge gave them some orders and told the bailifs to put them into a room so they could start deliberations and they did.

[weezer]

You know I've never been called for jury duty. I want to get deliberated! :rolleyes:

well -- you can always move to where orenthal lives and plays and up your chances to be called for jury duty and get deliberated! :D

[William Anthony]

You certainly had no objection when martin called him a liar. It's called tacit agreement, something you've accused me of several times.

Originally Posted by martin II
I never thought about that.He would have just relaxed and enjoyed his conversation and Park would not have had to lie about seeing him.imo

Response by William
I wonder how he felt when a bunch of men in suits woke him up in the middle of the night, asking him questions.

I was speaking of Kato and I was not aware that a bunch of men wearing suits awakened Park in the middle of the night.:) I never agreed to the statement and simply did not address it.

[William Anthony]

You know I've never been called for jury duty. I want to get deliberated! :rolleyes:

My dear woman,

You have been deliberately deliberated. As we are judged by the English we speak, so are we judged by the company we keep, rightly or wrongly. :)

[martin II]

You certainly had no objection when martin called him a liar. It's called tacit agreement, something you've accused me of several times.

Originally Posted by martin II
I never thought about that.He would have just relaxed and enjoyed his conversation and Park would not have had to lie about seeing him.imo

Response by William
I wonder how he felt when a bunch of men in suits woke him up in the middle of the night, asking him questions.

tv

was the accusation of tacit agreement against you true??:cool:

[William Anthony]

If you are asking me if I think Park lied, I will only say that the consensus on this board is that witnesses for the prosecution make human errors and mistakes or tell irrelevant lies, while the defense witnesses and lawyers tell lies.:)

[tv]

tv

was the accusation of tacit agreement against you true??:cool:Sometimes and sometimes not.

[martin II]

I have said that i believe Park lied in at least one instance.Other times i believe he mistakenly transfered events that he learned after 6/12 into his testimony and that there was a reason for his changing testimony from time to time.It is not necessary for posters to agree or dissagree.

[William Anthony]

I have said that i believe Park lied in at least one instance.Other times i believe he mistakenly transfered events that he learned after 6/12 into his testimony and that there was a reason for his changing testimony from time to time.It is not necessary for posters to agree or dissagree.

I agree to agree or disagree civilly. :)

[martin II]

Sometimes and sometimes not.

Ok so what is the problem.

[serpentsfall]

Fuhrman's 'lie' about words used in a screenplay was not relevant to the trial nor was it a material fact. Your hate for LE overrides your common sense.

I disagree, weezer. Fuhrman did lie about whether or not he'd ever used the "N" word. That he wasn't man enough to admit he had done it - irregardless of the context or circumstances in which it was uttered - said a lot about the man on the stand.

[martin II]

They say a lie travels faster than the truth. I don't know. The truth about this lie traveled from California to North Carolina, IIRC, and back to California and then throughout the world. :)

And the majority of the world heard Furhman lie, live on tv and i do include Africa, Asia and South America in my majority.imo

[William Anthony]

And the majority of the world heard Furhman lie, live on tv and i do include Africa, Asia and South America in my majority.imo

The lie heard around the world in living color, smile.

[martin II]

I disagree, weezer. Fuhrman did lie about whether or not he'd ever used the "N" word. That he wasn't man enough to admit he had done it - irregardless of the context or circumstances in which it was uttered - said a lot about the man on the stand.

I agree. it would have been better for him and the prosecution if he had just answered YES.

[William Anthony]

I agree. it would have been better for him and the prosecution if he had just answered YES.

Old habits are hard to break. :)

[martin II]

Sometimes and sometimes not.

True dat

[weezer]

I disagree, weezer. Fuhrman did lie about whether or not he'd ever used the "N" word. That he wasn't man enough to admit he had done it - irregardless of the context or circumstances in which it was uttered - said a lot about the man on the stand.

Here's my problem with the questioning of Fuhrman over the use of the 'n' word: bailey began the questioning with

"Q I WILL REPHRASE IT. I WANT YOU TO ASSUME THAT PERHAPS AT SOME TIME, SINCE 1985 OR 6, YOU ADDRESSED A MEMBER OF THE AFRICAN AMERICAN RACE AS A ______. IS IT POSSIBLE THAT YOU HAVE FORGOTTEN THAT ACT ON YOUR PART?

A NO, IT IS NOT POSSIBLE.

and switched to:

Q ARE YOU THEREFORE SAYING THAT YOU HAVE NOT USED THAT WORD IN THE PAST TEN YEARS, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN?

A YES, THAT IS WHAT I'M SAYING.

Q AND YOU SAY UNDER OATH THAT YOU HAVE NOT ADDRESSED ANY BLACK PERSON AS A ______ OR SPOKEN ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE AS _______ IN THE PAST TEN YEARS, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN?

A THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING, SIR."

I think bailey was very slick in twisting his question from calling to spoken. I don't quibble with the evidence of the tapes and the words used in them. I do quibble with the leap from 'addressing African American' to 'spoken' --

[martin II]

Old habits are hard to break. :)

I think the jury and others in the court room, after Baily asked the quesiton, were waiting to see if Furhman would man up. He didn't

[martin II]

We know that Furhman had been accused by minorities/Blacks of directing that word towards them and Bialey knew that or must have known that.

The question was clear as a bell. Furhman knew exactly what the question was.Any attempt to blame Bailey for what he asked fails.imo

[William Anthony]

Here's my problem with the questioning of Fuhrman over the use of the 'n' word: bailey began the questioning with

"Q I WILL REPHRASE IT. I WANT YOU TO ASSUME THAT PERHAPS AT SOME TIME, SINCE 1985 OR 6, YOU ADDRESSED A MEMBER OF THE AFRICAN AMERICAN RACE AS A ______. IS IT POSSIBLE THAT YOU HAVE FORGOTTEN THAT ACT ON YOUR PART?

A NO, IT IS NOT POSSIBLE.

and switched to:

Q ARE YOU THEREFORE SAYING THAT YOU HAVE NOT USED THAT WORD IN THE PAST TEN YEARS, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN?

A YES, THAT IS WHAT I'M SAYING.

Q AND YOU SAY UNDER OATH THAT YOU HAVE NOT ADDRESSED ANY BLACK PERSON AS A ______ OR SPOKEN ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE AS _______ IN THE PAST TEN YEARS, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN?

A THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING, SIR."

I think bailey was very slick in twisting his question from calling to spoken. I don't quibble with the evidence of the tapes and the words used in them. I do quibble with the leap from 'addressing African American' to 'spoken' --

He did not change this answer and this question.

"Q ARE YOU THEREFORE SAYING THAT YOU HAVE NOT USED THAT WORD IN THE PAST TEN YEARS, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN?

A YES, THAT IS WHAT I'M SAYING. "

A lie is a lie no matter how it is worded. :)

[weezer]

We know that Furhman had been accused by minorities/Blacks of directing that word towards them and Bialey knew that or must have known that.

The question was clear as a bell. Furhman knew exactly what the question was.Any attempt to blame Bailey for what he asked fails.imo

what we know is that there have multiple investigations into Furhman and there is and has never been any evidence that the stuff he talked about happened. :shrug:

we do know that there was a woman who hoped to write a screenplay to make it big. She met up with a big mouth, arrogant guy who made up crap to impress.

[weezer]

He did not change this answer and this question.

"Q ARE YOU THEREFORE SAYING THAT YOU HAVE NOT USED THAT WORD IN THE PAST TEN YEARS, DETECTIVE FUHRMAN?

A YES, THAT IS WHAT I'M SAYING. "

A lie is a lie no matter how it is worded. :)

okay william -- you win -- Furhman is a liar. He did use the word in the tapes for the screenplay.

[William Anthony]

I think the jury and others in the court room, after Baily asked the quesiton, were waiting to see if Furhman would man up. He didn't

He took the stand looking like a member of a choir and left looking like a member of another organization, not LE.

[weezer]

He took the stand looking like a member of a choir and left looking like a member of another organization, not LE.

all in the eyes of the beholder -- I thought he looked just fine. ;)

[William Anthony]

okay william -- you win -- Furhman is a liar. He did use the word in the tapes for the screenplay.

Yes and that lie convicted him of perjury. It is ironic that people object to the use of the term magnificent one but the only one convicted of a crime as a result of the trial was a member of LE. He led the dream team that magnificently trapped MF in his lie.:)

[William Anthony]

all in the eyes of the beholder -- I thought he looked just fine. ;)

I am not in the least bit surprised that he looked fine to you. :)

[weezer]

Yes and that lie convicted him of perjury. It is ironic that people object to the use of the term magnificent one but the only one convicted of a crime as a result of the trial was a member of LE. He led the dream team that magnificently trapped MF in his lie.:)

yep -- better we convict all the liars than concentrate on the murderers. makes me feel safer. how about you?

[William Anthony]

yep -- better we convict all the liars than concentrate on the murderers. makes me feel safer. how about you?

I rest safe in believing the judicial systems works as designed. How about you?

[martin II]

Testimony from MS Singer and another lady proved that furhman used that word at the recruting office and at her home during a visit by Furhman.Sitting in her living room she heard him use that word and said his words made her cry.This caused her on his next visit to shout from her window telling furhman, not to come to her apartment and he was not doing any screen play at those places.

[weezer]

I rest safe in believing the judicial systems works as designed. How about you?

works for whom william? It certainly didn't work for Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown nor their families. :flamemad:

[weezer]

Testimony from MS Singer and another lady proved that furhman used that word at the recruting office and at her home during a visit by Furhman.Sitting in her living room she heard him use that word and said his words made her cry.This caused her on his next visit to shout from her window telling furhman, not to come to her apartment and he was not doing any screen play at those places.

well there you have it martin -- I said you guys win -- Fuhrman is a liar. the tapes proved he used the word in the last ten years.

anyone but me concerned about the fact that Nicole's diaries -- written in the same time frame -- weren't allowed and kept her voice from being heard.

[William Anthony]

works for whom william? It certainly didn't work for Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown nor their families. :flamemad:

Maybe, it would have had the prosecution been able to prove its case as opposed to trying to rely on sentiment and trying to disprove the defense, imho. Justice was served, if we understand the concept of justice, imho, which does not mean that the victims had their murderer(s) brought to justice.

[martin II]

He took the stand looking like a member of a choir and left looking like a member of another organization, not LE.

IMO He entered and took the stand like he was in control of the court.He ignored Baileys reputation for setting traps but was caught when Bailey stood up.imo

[William Anthony]

well there you have it martin -- I said you guys win -- Fuhrman is a liar. the tapes proved he used the word in the last ten years.

anyone but me concerned about the fact that Nicole's diaries -- written in the same time frame -- weren't allowed and kept her voice from being heard.

I am not, because I somewhat understand hearsay and the need to lay a proper foundation for the admissibility of the evidence.

[William Anthony]

IMO He entered and took the stand like he was in control of the court.He ignored Baileys reputation for setting traps but was caught when Bailey stood up.imo

He was caught when he took the oath to tell the truth and opened his mouth, imho.

[fgump2]

I found and interesting quote from a psychotherapist, Saul Faerstein who talked with OJS in the weeks after his arrest. Mr. Faerstein had this to say about Mr. Simpson:" he feels no sadness (about Nicole's death), no concern for his children's future... Simpson worried about only himself". Mr. Faerstein didn't say he thought OJS was guilty, but he said his behavior was more consistent with guilt than with innocence. This was on page 86 of "The Run of His Life".

Simpson's lack of grief about Nicole's death and his lack of concern about his children's future make his suicide note and his pointing a gun at his own head all the more incriminating.

I would feel dirtied if I had had any part in defending a man like that. I realize that lawyers are entitled to defend anyone, and to muddy the waters in order to get a defendant off. I have a low opinion of the lawyers, such as Cochran, Shapiro, and Bailey and others who had to have known what kind of a person OJS was, and still defended him.

It should concern the whole country if the wrong people are being made heroes. Orenthal J. Simpson was a squeaky clean hero for more than 25 years.

[martin II]

It would have had the prosecution been able to prove its case as opposed to trying to rely on sentiment and trying to disprove the defense, imho.

I doubt Nicole or Ron if it were possible for them to speak, would have agreed that a person should have been wronly convicted for their murders just to satisfy some haters.imo

[weezer]

I want everyone to know that I agree with william and martin know that Fuhrman was proved to be a liar -- he did use the 'n' word.

[William Anthony]

I found and interesting quote from a psychotherapist, Saul Faerstein who talked with OJS in the weeks after his arrest. Mr. Faerstein had this to say about Mr. Simpson:" he feels no sadness (about Nicole's death), no concern for his children's future... Simpson worried about only himself". Mr. Faerstein didn't say he thought OJS was guilty, but he said his behavior was more consistent with guilt than with innocence. This was on page 86 of "The Run of His Life".

Simpson's lack of grief about Nicole's death and his lack of concern about his children's future make his suicide note and his pointing a gun at his own head all the more incriminating.

I would feel dirtied if I had had any part in defending a man like that. I realize that lawyers are entitled to defend anyone, and to muddy the waters in order to get a defendant off. I have a low opinion of the lawyers, such as Cochran, Shapiro, and Bailey and others who had to have known what kind of a person OJS was, and still defended him.

It should concern the whole country if the wrong people are being made heroes. Orenthal J. Simpson was a squeaky clean hero for more than 25 years.

Did this psyco...treat Simpson or do a diagnostic evaluation based on interviews?

[William Anthony]

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Justice

[William Anthony]

I want everyone to know that I agree with william and martin know that Fuhrman was proved to be a liar -- he did use the 'n' word.

Perjurer, there is a difference, one is criminal.:)

[martin II]

I found and interesting quote from a psychotherapist, Saul Faerstein who talked with OJS in the weeks after his arrest. Mr. Faerstein had this to say about Mr. Simpson:" he feels no sadness (about Nicole's death), no concern for his children's future... Simpson worried about only himself". Mr. Faerstein didn't say he thought OJS was guilty, but he said his behavior was more consistent with guilt than with innocence. This was on page 86 of "The Run of His Life".

Simpson's lack of grief about Nicole's death and his lack of concern about his children's future make his suicide note and his pointing a gun at his own head all the more incriminating.

I would feel dirtied if I had had any part in defending a man like that. I realize that lawyers are entitled to defend anyone, and to muddy the waters in order to get a defendant off. I have a low opinion of the lawyers, such as Cochran, Shapiro, and Bailey and others who had to have known what kind of a person OJS was, and still defended him.


It should concern the whole country if the wrong people are being made heroes. Orenthal J. Simpson was a squeaky clean hero for more than 25 years.

I have never heard of a saul Faerstein interviewing oj in jail.How did this interview take place.Who arranged it.

[weezer]

I doubt Nicole or Ron if it were possible for them to speak, would have agreed that a person should have been wronly convicted for their murders just to satisfy some haters.imo

Nicole said orenthal was going to kill her and he did.

[fgump2]

Did this psyco...treat Simpson or do a diagnostic evaluation based on interviews?

Both. He talked with Simpson quite a few times. I think he continued to talk (treat seems like an odd word for talk) after the diagnosis. I don't know if he was a psychologist or psychiatrist, but for this purpose I don't think it makes any difference.

[fgump2]

I have never heard of a saul Faerstein interviewing oj in jail.How did this interview take place.Who arranged it.

Probably Shapiro. He may have interviewed Simpson before he was jailed, but I am pretty sure he also talked to Simpson while he was jailed.

[William Anthony]

Both. He talked with Simpson quite a few times. I think he continued to talk (treat seems like an odd word for talk) after the diagnosis. I don't know if he was a psychologist or psychiatrist, but for this purpose I don't think it makes any difference.

http://www.healthgrades.com/directory_search/physician/profiles/dr-md-reports/Dr-Saul-Faerstein-MD-F40F342D.cfm

He is a forensic psycho (junk science craftsman)... or geriatric psycho.... The purpose of psychoanalysis or the talking cure, as its creator, Freud, opined is to treat a person and is a helpful diagnostic tool. The object is to allow the patient to talk with the least amount of judgment and interference. This does not seem to be what this psycho..was interested in doing from your posts and psychoanalysis usually involves several sessions.

[weezer]

Probably Shapiro. He may have interviewed Simpson before he was jailed, but I am pretty sure he also talked to Simpson while he was jailed.

OMG -- you know what you've done don't you? You've added yet another name to the grand conspiracy. Does anyone know what the number of conspirators is up to now? I'm rough guessing but maybe 3 - 4 hundred?

[tv]

I want everyone to know that I agree with william and martin know that Fuhrman was proved to be a liar -- he did use the 'n' word.



Mark Fuhrman used the N word in the last ten years before the trial. :eek:

Mark Fuhrman lied when he said he hadn't said the N word in the last ten years. :no:

Mark Fuhrman was tried and convicted of perjury. :patriot:

[martin II]

I found and interesting quote from a psychotherapist, Saul Faerstein who talked with OJS in the weeks after his arrest. Mr. Faerstein had this to say about Mr. Simpson:" he feels no sadness (about Nicole's death), no concern for his children's future.OJ HAS RAISED HIS TWO YOUNGER CHILDREN FOR 13 YEARS AND THEY ARE FINE WELL ADJUSTED YOUNG ADULTS.SO THE DOCTOR WAS WRONG ON THAT ISSUE. .. Simpson worried about only himself".During his stay in jail oj provided for his kids by paying the BRowns $10,000 per onth for their upkeep so the doc was wrong IF he said oj did not care about anyone but himself. Mr. Faerstein didn't say he thought OJS was guilty, but he said his behavior was more consistent with guilt than with innocence.this is a matter of opinion as the doctor did not know. This was on page 86 of "The Run of His Life".

Simpson's lack of grief about Nicole's death and his lack of concern about his children's future make his suicide note and his pointing a gun at his own head all the more incriminating. This is a unproven assumption on your part.

I would feel dirtied if I had had any part in defending a man like that. I realize that lawyers are entitled to defend anyone, and to muddy the waters in order to get a defendant off. I have a low opinion of the lawyers, such as Cochran, Shapiro, and Bailey and others who had to have known what kind of a person OJS was, and still defended him. I would say that the legal profession has a higher opinion of these lawyers than you .

It should concern the whole country if the wrong people are being made heroes. Orenthal J. Simpson was a squeaky clean hero for more than 25 years.
I assume by the wrong people you mean Clarke, Furhman etc.

[tv]

OMG -- you know what you've done don't you? You've added yet another name to the grand conspiracy. Does anyone know what the number of conspirators is up to now? I'm rough guessing but maybe 3 - 4 hundred?

At least that many. I'm beginning to think OJ Simpson was the only honest man in LA...except of course the brother that took the video of Simpson's house. :tongue:

[William Anthony]

Probably Shapiro. He may have interviewed Simpson before he was jailed, but I am pretty sure he also talked to Simpson while he was jailed.

I think you are right and I have found that the Dr. has a reputation of sorts as an expert and does do interviews.

"In the Navy, he was given medals for ignoring danger signs and performing perilous and death-defying acts," Beverly Hills psychiatrist Dr. Saul Faerstein concluded after a five-hour interview with Cunningham on behalf of the defense. "In Congress, he was expected to behave very differently, but the psyche cannot make such a U-turn easily."

I do not know any psychiatrist that would make such an evaluation of anyone to include he (Cunnigham) based on that limited amount of interview.

[martin II]

Probably Shapiro. He may have interviewed Simpson before he was jailed, but I am pretty sure he also talked to Simpson while he was jailed.

You said he talked to oj in jail. Who arranged for this doc to talk to oj many times in jail..
Did you read the book?
If not can you give a link to where you got this info from?

[William Anthony]

OMG -- you know what you've done don't you? You've added yet another name to the grand conspiracy. Does anyone know what the number of conspirators is up to now? I'm rough guessing but maybe 3 - 4 hundred?

No, just someone looking for fame.

[weezer]

I think you are right and I have found that the Dr. has a reputation of sorts as an expert and does do interviews.

"In the Navy, he was given medals for ignoring danger signs and performing perilous and death-defying acts," Beverly Hills psychiatrist Dr. Saul Faerstein concluded after a five-hour interview with Cunningham on behalf of the defense. "In Congress, he was expected to behave very differently, but the psyche cannot make such a U-turn easily."

I do not know any psychiatrist that would make such an evaluation of anyone to include he (Cunnigham) based on that limited amount of interview.

ahh yes -- let the character assassinations begin!

[William Anthony]

At least that many. I'm beginning to think OJ Simpson was the only honest man in LA...except of course the brother that took the video of Simpson's house. :tongue:

He may not have been honest but the judicial system honestly worked, much to the chagrin of many, imho.

[William Anthony]

ahh yes -- let the character assassinations begin!

It is not a character assassination, as I would probably do the same if allowed and if in his position. I am saying that it has not in line with my limited experience in the training I had in "theories of personality" that a person using an interview technique would reach such a definitive conclusion based on that limited exposure to the patient. However, it may be allowed as I truly can't say.

[weezer]

He may not have been honest but the judicial system honestly worked, much to the chagrin of many, imho.

unfortunately, in the criminal case, Lady Justice didn't hold up her end of the bargain.

[martin II]

I think you are right and I have found that the Dr. has a reputation of sorts as an expert and does do interviews.

"In the Navy, he was given medals for ignoring danger signs and performing perilous and death-defying acts," Beverly Hills psychiatrist Dr. Saul Faerstein concluded after a five-hour interview with Cunningham on behalf of the defense. "In Congress, he was expected to behave very differently, but the psyche cannot make such a U-turn easily."

I do not know any psychiatrist that would make such an evaluation of anyone to include he (Cunnigham) based on that limited amount of interview.

Maby the doc was writing a book to a target market that wanted to read oj guilty type stuff so all he had to do was say i talked to him. But i am waiting on the source of the claims.

[martin II]

I found and interesting quote from a psychotherapist, Saul Faerstein who talked with OJS in the weeks after his arrest. Mr. Faerstein had this to say about Mr. Simpson:" he feels no sadness (about Nicole's death), no concern for his children's future... Simpson worried about only himself". Mr. Faerstein didn't say he thought OJS was guilty, but he said his behavior was more consistent with guilt than with innocence. This was on page 86 of "The Run of His Life".

Simpson's lack of grief about Nicole's death and his lack of concern about his children's future make his suicide note and his pointing a gun at his own head all the more incriminating.

I would feel dirtied if I had had any part in defending a man like that. I realize that lawyers are entitled to defend anyone, and to muddy the waters in order to get a defendant off. I have a low opinion of the lawyers, such as Cochran, Shapiro, and Bailey and others who had to have known what kind of a person OJS was, and still defended him.

It should concern the whole country if the wrong people are being made heroes. Orenthal J. Simpson was a squeaky clean hero for more than 25 years.

I thought you had put your faith in profilers and tossed the physcos.

[tv]

unfortunately, in the criminal case, Lady Justice didn't hold up her end of the bargain.
Unlike Lady Kenmore! :tongue:

[William Anthony]

unfortunately, in the criminal case, Lady Justice didn't hold up her end of the bargain.

I must disagree in that a jury was selected, a trial held, a verdict rendered and no appeals taken on any basis. Lady justice on holds the scale. It is up to the prosecution or the defense to tip the scale.:)

[William Anthony]

Unlike Lady Kenmore! :tongue:

Link please to any bargain Lady Kenmore made.:)

[weezer]

It is not a character assassination, as I would probably do the same if allowed and if in his position. I am saying that it has not in line with my limited experience in the training I had in "theories of personality" that a person using an interview technique would reach such a definitive conclusion based on that limited exposure to the patient. However, it may be allowed as I truly can't say.

so what you're saying is you're using your limited junk science knowledge to offer an opinion on orenthal's psychiatrist? LOL

[weezer]

I thought you had put your faith in profilers and tossed the physcos.

psst -- do some research before you start miming william. Saul Faerstein was orenthal's psychiatrist.

[martin II]

I found and interesting quote from a psychotherapist, Saul Faerstein who talked with OJS in the weeks after his arrest. Mr. Faerstein had this to say about Mr. Simpson:" he feels no sadness (about Nicole's death), no concern for his children's future... Simpson worried about only himself". Mr. Faerstein didn't say he thought OJS was guilty, but he said his behavior was more consistent with guilt than with innocence. This was on page 86 of "The Run of His Life".

Simpson's lack of grief about Nicole's death and his lack of concern about his children's future make his suicide note and his pointing a gun at his own head all the more incriminating.

I would feel dirtied if I had had any part in defending a man like that. I realize that lawyers are entitled to defend anyone, and to muddy the waters in order to get a defendant off. I have a low opinion of the lawyers, such as Cochran, Shapiro, and Bailey and others who had to have known what kind of a person OJS was, and still defended him.

It should concern the whole country if the wrong people are being made heroes. Orenthal J. Simpson was a squeaky clean hero for more than 25 years.

There was a auto accident in my neighborhood yesterday.

[tv]

Link please to any bargain Lady Kenmore made.:)Nope. :)

[weezer]

There was a auto accident in my neighborhood yesterday.

we can't blame orenthal. we know where he is. :eek:;):D

[martin II]

It seems that everyone that had a BIC pen and could find a piece of paper wrote something about oj and or the trial.It was a free feeding frenzy especially those that targeted their words to the oj haters and tossed truth to the wind.

[weezer]

It seems that everyone that had a BIC pen and could find a piece of paper wrote something about oj and or the trial.It was a free feeding frenzy especially those that targeted their words to the oj haters and tossed truth to the wind.

Saul Faerstein, M.D., was orenthal's psychiatrist.

[William Anthony]

so what you're saying is you're using your limited junk science knowledge to offer an opinion on orenthal's psychiatrist? LOL

No, the link I supplied referred to the Dr. as a forensic (junk craftsman). Freud's methods have been tested and utilized.

http://skepdic.com/psychoan.html

"Freud's technique of listening to distressed people over long periods rather than giving them orders or advice has formed the foundation of most modern forms of psychotherapy, with benefits to both patients and practitioners" (Storr 1996: 120)."

I don't know what to say about "forensic psychotherapist".:)

[weezer]

No, the link I supplied referred to the Dr. as a forensic (junk craftsman). Freud's methods have been tested and utilized.

http://skepdic.com/psychoan.html

"Freud's technique of listening to distressed people over long periods rather than giving them orders or advice has formed the foundation of most modern forms of psychotherapy, with benefits to both patients and practitioners" (Storr 1996: 120)."

I don't know what to say about "forensic psychotherapist".:)

Saul Faerstein, M.D., was orenthal's psychiatrist. ;)

[William Anthony]

Nope. :)

Alrighty then. :)

[William Anthony]

Saul Faerstein, M.D., was orenthal's psychiatrist. ;)

The link I provided listed his credentials, forensic psychotherapy and geriatric psychiatrist.

[weezer]

The link I provided listed his credentials, forensic psychotherapy and geriatric psychiatrist.

really? on the link you provided it describes him as

Forensic Psychiatry, Geriatric Psychiatry, Psychiatry

[William Anthony]

really? on the link you provided it describes him as

Forensic Psychiatry, Geriatric Psychiatry, Psychiatry

You are correct. It was a poster, who brought him up that said this,

I found and interesting quote from a psychotherapist, Saul Faerstein who talked with OJS in the weeks after his arrest

[martin II]

I think furhman took the 5th to evade more serious questions.

[tv]

I think furhman took the 5th to evade more serious questions.
Why didn't OJ Simpson testify in the criminal trial? Could it be he didn't want to look like a fool like he did in the civil trial?

[William Anthony]

"When O.J. Simpson was jailed after accusations that he murdered his wife, therapist Saul Faerstein outraged Simpson's lawyers with a bill for $25,000 for his first month of part-time work with the notorious patient. "

[tv]

I think furhman took the 5th to evade more serious questions.That's his right under the law.

[William Anthony]

Why didn't OJ Simpson testify in the criminal trial? Could it be he didn't want to look like a fool like he did in the civil trial?

There was no need for him to as the magnificent one and the dream team demolished the prosecution.

[William Anthony]

That's his right under the law.

Bailey made that lying fool, MF.

[tv]

"When O.J. Simpson was jailed after accusations that he murdered his wife, therapist Saul Faerstein outraged Simpson's lawyers with a bill for $25,000 for his first month of part-time work with the notorious patient. "
No doubt that was a drop in the bucket compared to what his lawyers charged him.

[tv]

Bailey made that lying fool, MF.OJ Simpson is the lying fool but I hate to be redundant.

[tv]

There was no need for him to as the magnificent one and the dream team demolished the prosecution.The defense won with the help of their 12 assistants sitting in the jury box. :rolleyes: Too bad the brilliant one didn't prosecute the case. The lying fool might have been in prison for the last 14 years.

[William Anthony]

No doubt that was a drop in the bucket compared to what his lawyers charged him.

You are probably right and Shipario probably hired the Dr., which means that he only became Simpson's psychiatrist or forensic psychotherapist as a result of the trial.

[William Anthony]

The defense won with the help of their 12 assistants sitting in the jury box. :rolleyes: Too bad the brilliant one didn't prosecute the case. The lying fool might have been in prison for the last 14 years.

I don't think the magnificent one would have been able to put that lying fool, MF, in jail for 14 years for perjury. Yes, that was part of his magnificence, the burden of persuasion.

[William Anthony]

OJ Simpson is the lying fool but I hate to be redundant.

Was Simpson convicted of perjury and, if not, who was?

[tv]

I don't think the magnificent one would have been able to put that lying fool, MF, in jail for 14 years for perjury. Yes, that was part of his magnificence, the burden of persuasion.

You're twisting. You know I hate that. :flamemad:

[martin II]

You are correct. It was a poster, who brought him up that said this,

Without any direct quotes from the Doc, we don;t know what he said,

[tv]

Was Simpson convicted of perjury and, if not, who was?Please see post #2830 and stop beating this dead horse.

[martin II]

OJ Simpson is the lying fool but I hate to be redundant.

i don't think you mind,:)

[martin II]

"When O.J. Simpson was jailed after accusations that he murdered his wife, therapist Saul Faerstein outraged Simpson's lawyers with a bill for $25,000 for his first month of part-time work with the notorious patient. "

i hope they sent the invoice back and demanded corrections.Maby their refusal to pay caused the negative comments a poster claims he made.

[tv]

i don't think you mind,:)You're right -- I like saying OJ Simpson is a lying fool. :)

[martin II]

Why didn't OJ Simpson testify in the criminal trial? Could it be he didn't want to look like a fool like he did in the civil trial?

i think the dream team, the smart ones in the roon, told them they had won the case so no need for him to testify.

[William Anthony]

Please see post #2830 and stop beating this dead horse.

Mine is only half dead and you are in over kill.:)

[William Anthony]

You're twisting. You know I hate that. :flamemad:

Is there another dance you prefer?:)

[tv]

i think the dream team, the smart ones in the roon, told them they had won the case so no need for him to testify.Them, who?

[martin II]

You're right -- I like saying OJ Simpson is a lying fool. :)

Would that be a comment from a team player?

[martin II]

Them, who?

Sorry
told him as in oj.

[weezer]

You are correct. It was a poster, who brought him up that said this,

just so we keep this straight, you posted:

"The link I provided listed his credentials, forensic psychotherapy and geriatric psychiatrist."

[martin II]

That's his right under the law.

It was a smart move on his part as it prevented other wrong doings from being uncovered and saved some the time and effort of trying to defend him.

[weezer]

"When O.J. Simpson was jailed after accusations that he murdered his wife, therapist Saul Faerstein outraged Simpson's lawyers with a bill for $25,000 for his first month of part-time work with the notorious patient. "

yah -- I heard orenthal didn't like to pay his bills. In fact, didn't one of the lawyers get the Rolls?

[William Anthony]

just so we keep this straight, you posted:

"The link I provided listed his credentials, forensic psychotherapy and geriatric psychiatrist."

And I said you were right.

[weezer]

And I said you were right.

no -- what you tried to do is blame it on another poster. :punch:

[William Anthony]

yah -- I heard orenthal didn't like to pay his bills. In fact, didn't one of the lawyers get the Rolls?

Fair exchange isn't a robbery and an even swap isn't a swindle.

[martin II]

And I said you were right.

i am sure you realized you were the target of a useless argument about nothing.

Regardless of what his title was it is opbvious he was a fool to make such comments if in fact he did make them. A greedy fool at that.

[William Anthony]

no -- what you tried to do is blame it on another poster. :punch:

No, I posted what another poster said that I used to make my post which was not from my link, which is why I said you were right. However, if you aren't satisfied, I can say you are wrong.

[William Anthony]

i am sure you realized you were the target of a useless argument about nothing.

Regardless of what his title was it is opbvious he was a fool to make such comments if in fact he did make them. A greedy fool at that.

Ah, I think some here want to prove me wrong about anything. I am surprised they haven't said I am not Black.:)

[weezer]

Fair exchange isn't a robbery and an even swap isn't a swindle.

even if the Rolls no longer belonged to orenthal?

[weezer]

No, I posted what another poster said that I used to make my post which was not from my link, which is why I said you were right. However, if you aren't satisfied, I can say you are wrong.

then you were not telling the truth when you said it was from 'your link'? what's that phrase you guys use? man up?

[William Anthony]

even if the Rolls no longer belonged to orenthal?

That remains to be seen, if, in fact, a Rolls was traded.

[weezer]

That remains to be seen, if, in fact, a Rolls was traded.

I never heard anything about 'traded' -- the phrase I read was 'got' --

[William Anthony]

then you were not telling the truth when you said it was from 'your link'? what's that phrase you guys use? man up?

Look woman,

What part of you are right and it wasn't from my link don't you understand?:) No matter how many times you post about it, it still adds up to one mistake.:) You only have about a hundred more to catch me in to equal the amount I have caught you in.:) So, have at it.:)

[martin II]

Ah, I think some here want to prove me wrong about anything. I am surprised they haven't said I am not Black.:)

i think the mo is, prove me wrong and you will be my target.

[William Anthony]

I never heard anything about 'traded' -- the phrase I read was 'got' --

Is it not you theory that a lawyer got the Rolls for services he rendered Simpson?

[William Anthony]

i think the mo is, prove me wrong and you will be my target.

Then we must have bull's eyes all over us.:)

[weezer]

Then we must have bull's eyes all over us.:)

you're not going paranoid on us again are you? :D

[William Anthony]

you're not going paranoid on us again are you? :D

woman,

A healthy respect for the adversary is always warranted and h**l hath no fury like a woman scorned.

[weezer]

And I said you were right.

I'm saving this post in my memory box! ;)

[martin II]

That remains to be seen, if, in fact, a Rolls was traded.

After spending 3-4 million in legal fees and a lawyer wanted a car instead of cash it makes sense to give the car. Just like Mr Goldman is willing to take footballs because he cannot find the cash.imo

But this claim has never been supported by either lawyer or oj.

[weezer]

After spending 3-4 million in legal fees and a lawyer wanted a car instead of cash it makes sense to give the car. Just like Mr Goldman is willing to take footballs because he cannot find the cash.imo

But this claim has never been supported by either lawyer or oj.

and who do you think is going to own up to taking the Rolls? LOL

[martin II]

It is odd how one can refer to oneself as "US" and at other times as "majority".

[weezer]

It is odd how one can refer to oneself as "US" and at other times as "majority".

oh come on now -- I don't think it's any odder than you telling everyone else they weren't there and couldn't know but you know exactly what orenthal was thinking and wearing. :seeya:

[serpentsfall]

It seems that everyone that had a BIC pen and could find a piece of paper wrote something about oj and or the trial.It was a free feeding frenzy especially those that targeted their words to the oj haters and tossed truth to the wind.

Martin, you yourself have offered up an awful lot of written words about oj and/or the trial. Don't you ever ask yourself why you've devoted so much time and energy to this endeavor? What's the point? I don't recall you ever mentioning having had any first-person direct contact with Simpson or anyone else involved with the case; all of your info seems to have come second hand; from what you've seen, heard and read reported by others. Why cast stones at others - especially those who have had direct contact with any of the parties - for feeling compelled to expess in writing their impressions and opinions when you do the same thing every day?

[weezer]

I was looking at the website set up by orenthal's friend and brother of ex-girlfriend Christy and they've posted a picture at the bottom that says it's orenthal and Sydney but I could swear I've seen that same pictured identified as orenthal and arnelle. anybody know?

http://societyagainstlegalinjustice.com/causes.php

[weezer]

LOL -- from the same site:

You may Donate any amount of money that you feel comfortable with, all your information
is keep Private and Secure. All donations are final. No refunds will be issued.

[weezer]

LOL -- from the same site:

Board Members

Barrett Prody

Thomas Scotto

[fgump2]

I think you are right and I have found that the Dr. has a reputation of sorts as an expert and does do interviews.

"In the Navy, he was given medals for ignoring danger signs and performing perilous and death-defying acts," Beverly Hills psychiatrist Dr. Saul Faerstein concluded after a five-hour interview with Cunningham on behalf of the defense. "In Congress, he was expected to behave very differently, but the psyche cannot make such a U-turn easily."

I do not know any psychiatrist that would make such an evaluation of anyone to include he (Cunnigham) based on that limited amount of interview.
************************************************** ********
I wouldn't want to condem that because I don't have the professional background, and I dioubt you do either. I doubt it did Mr Cunningham any good. He still went to prison and paid fines (I think). I think what Mr. Faerstein said about Cuinningham was probably true; he was an adrenaline addict.

I don't say the psychiatric or psychological professions are worthless; but many people have had too much faith in them at times. I don't think that psychologists and psychiatrists have a good record for predicting which ex prisoners will stay out of trouble.

In the case of Faerstein's analysis of Mr. Simpson, it is I have often formed opinions about other pepole's sense of right and wrong, and I have no piece of sheep skin saying that I am qualified to do that. People form those kind of judgements all the time.

OJS's statements after the criminal trial support the notion of he is a psychopath. The one that I thought was most unusual was that he once said " Sometimes when a man kills a woman, she had it coming". A strange statement from an man accused of killing his wife. This is one of those things that I would like to have a neutral group pass judgement on. Get a bunch of people in another country who are too young to remember the trial, and ask them about what they think of Simpson's known behavior. Evidence that he beat her, his statements that indicate a lack of grief over her brutal murder and death.

I know I am just repeating what I have written before, but the fact that OJS never expressed much (or maybe any) grief for Nicole's death, or remorse for not treating her better shows a lot about what kind of person he is. I don't need a PHD in anything or hours of interviewing him to form an opinion about him.

If Sydney and Justin are doing OK, it may be they had help from a housekeeper or others.

[William Anthony]

I'm saving this post in my memory box! ;)

May it bring you endless hours of comfort.:)

[William Anthony]

************************************************** ********
I wouldn't want to condem that because I don't have the professional background, and I dioubt you do either. I doubt it did Mr Cunningham any good. He still went to prison and paid fines (I think). I think what Mr. Faerstein said about Cuinningham was probably true; he was an adrenaline addict.

I don't say the psychiatric or psychological professions are worthless; but many people have had too much faith in them at times. I don't think that psychologists and psychiatrists have a good record for predicting which ex prisoners will stay out of trouble.

In the case of Faerstein's analysis of Mr. Simpson, it is I have often formed opinions about other pepole's sense of right and wrong, and I have no piece of sheep skin saying that I am qualified to do that. People form those kind of judgements all the time.

OJS's statements after the criminal trial support the notion of he is a psychopath. The one that I thought was most unusual was that he once said " Sometimes when a man kills a woman, she had it coming". A strange statement from an man accused of killing his wife. This is one of those things that I would like to have a neutral group pass judgement on. Get a bunch of people in another country who are too young to remember the trial, and ask them about what they think of Simpson's known behavior. Evidence that he beat her, his statements that indicate a lack of grief over her brutal murder and death.

I know I am just repeating what I have written before, but the fact that OJS never expressed much (or maybe any) grief for Nicole's death, or remorse for not treating her better shows a lot about what kind of person he is. I don't need a PHD in anything or hours of interviewing him to form an opinion about him.

If Sydney and Justin are doing OK, it may be they had help from a housekeeper or others.

I have already admitted that I don't have the professional background to condemn his opinion, if that is what you want to call it. However, I have provided a link on psychotherapy and psychoanalysis, which shows that many long hours of interviews must be held before forming an opinion.

If your post is about the moral concept of right and wrong and not the criminal concept, then I have no qualms with that. Sometime public figures say things just to push the envelope, like say Rush Limbaugh or Howard Stern.

You say you do not have the qualifications to form a diagnosis of Simpson but yet you say his statement indicate that he is a psychopath. I hope the group you want to see evaluate Simpson will be informed of this. Of course, you are entitled to form and express an opinion, as other are to disagree with it.

If Simpson's children are doing okay, it is because he had the proper people in place to ensure that they would.

[tv]

Is there another dance you prefer?:)
Not really but I notice you prefer the twist and when you're not doing that you're waltzing all around the truth.

[tv]

Would that be a comment from a team player?
I didn't know we were picking teams...we could have a draft and everything! :biggrin:

[tv]

Ah, I think some here want to prove me wrong about anything. I am surprised they haven't said I am not Black.:)Well...we really only have your word for it. :)

[martin II]

Martin, you yourself have offered up an awful lot of written words about oj and/or the trial. Don't you ever ask yourself why you've devoted so much time and energy to this endeavor? What's the point? I don't recall you ever mentioning having had any first-person direct contact with Simpson or anyone else involved with the case; all of your info seems to have come second hand; from what you've seen, heard and read reported by others. Why cast stones at others - especially those who have had direct contact with any of the parties - for feeling compelled to expess in writing their impressions and opinions when you do the same thing every day?

I and i believe othere post here because there is interest in the CJS and to just have fun interacting witrh each other. I and i believe others here have not been involved in attempts to sell our opinions to any market for profit which various authors of books have done. We have not enhanced our careers on the books and reporting on Oj Simpson.I do it for fun and because
i can arrange my time to do whatever i want to do. I work as others do but i own all of my time. I make this commentr because i believe you have made comments about the frequency of my post so i assume you have question in this area. I think that is the differance betwen posters here and those that wrote all kinds of things to get books published for publishuing houses and money for themselves.Not to mention 15 minutes of fame.

I have not spoken directly to oJ Sipson but i do have contact with people that do and so i have gotten second hand info.I have strong contacts in the fashion industry as i had business in that area for some time so i do hear reports of what Arnell and many other fashion designers and consultants are doing.Especially in the hip hop areas. I have attended several affairs when cochran spoke on the trial so i do have his first hand comments and those have been informative.

There have been some books that were quite good because they gave facts on the case., Then there are the others that just contained information that was obviously bias and directed to a certain market for maximum profit. Those that met Oj or Cochran or others once or talked to someone that talked to them and just wrote a book for money.

That is what i think the differance is and i hope i have answered some of your concerns.imo

[William Anthony]

Well...we really only have your word for it. :)

That's believable. :)

[martin II]

I didn't know we were picking teams...we could have a draft and everything! :biggrin:

You must have known. were you drafted or did you just give in.smile

[William Anthony]

Not really but I notice you prefer the twist and when you're not doing that you're waltzing all around the truth.

Why I always give a female a square dance.:)

[tv]

You must have known. were you drafted or did you just give in.smileNeither. I joined because I believe in the cause. :)

[tv]

Why I always give a female a square dance.:)I haven't square danced since grade school so I'll leave the square dancing to you. Just be careful that it doesn't get you in trouble. :)

[William Anthony]

I haven't square danced since grade school so I'll leave the square dancing to you. Just be careful that it doesn't get you in trouble. :)

Thank you and I have always been careful to watch my step, that is in my latter years. :)

[martin II]

Neither. I joined because I believe in the cause. :)

I think that is why most of us are here. You have not made attempts to make money and neither have i. Can you agree not to write a book.

[tv]

Thank you and I have always been careful to watch my step, that is in my latter years. :)I hope that's true. You can never be too vigilant. :)

[tv]

I think that is why most of us are here. You have not made attempts to make money and neither have i. Can you agree not to write a book.
I can't agree to that. If I could write a book about this case that would sell I would do it but I wouldn't compromise on what I believe about the case.

[William Anthony]

I hope that's true. You can never be too vigilant. :)

You can trust me on that but you are very right. :)

[martin II]

************************************************** ********
I wouldn't want to condem that because I don't have the professional background, I do understand you don't have the quialifications.and I dioubt you do either. I doubt it did Mr Cunningham any good. He still went to prison and paid fines (I think). I think what Mr. Faerstein said about Cuinningham was probably true; he was an adrenaline addict.

I don't say the psychiatric or psychological professions are worthless; but many people have had too much faith in them at times. I don't think that psychologists and psychiatrists have a good record for predicting which ex prisoners will stay out of trouble.

In the case of Faerstein's analysis of Mr. Simpson, it is I have often formed opinions about other pepole's sense of right and wrong, and I have no piece of sheep skin saying that I am qualified to do that. People form those kind of judgements all the time.

OJS's statements after the criminal trial support the notion of he is a psychopath. You just said you were not qualified to judge or make judgements.Did that change while you were posting?The one that I thought was most unusual was that he once said " Sometimes when a man kills a woman, she had it coming".Where did you get that statement from. A strange statement from an man accused of killing his wife. This is one of those things that I would like to have a neutral group pass judgement on. Get a bunch of people in another countryWould you agree if the group came from Nigeria or say Mali?. who are too young to remember the trial, and ask them about what they think of Simpson's known behavior. Evidence that he beat her, his statements that indicate a lack of grief over how do you know there was a lack of grief on ojs part?her brutal murder and death.

I know I am just repeating what I have written before,I agree. but the fact that OJS never expressed much (or maybe any) grief for Nicole's death, or remorse for not treating her better shows a lot about what kind of person he is. I don't need a PHD in anything or hours of interviewing him to form an opinion about him.You think it would be fair to you if i published my opinions of you after reading five hours of your post or having a five hour
conversation with you if you were in jail.At any time you may be pissed at the cold SOS they gave you for dinner.

If Sydney and Justin are doing OK, it may be they had help from a housekeeper The children lived and were cared for by the browns and oj paid $10,000 per month for their care.For the last 14 years he has cared for them himself. i don't know what housekeeper you are talking about.or others.

You can reply if you like.
martin II

[martin II]

I can't agree to that. If I could write a book about this case that would sell I would do it but I wouldn't compromise on what I believe about the case.

Bet

Martin II

[martin II]

I hope that's true. You can never be too vigilant. :)

I think both of you would look good doing the electric slide. You are too young to know the mashed potatoes.

[bobaugust]

You don't seem to understand. There is no testimony that says Park saw Kato leave his quarters or how long it took Kato to arrive at the point where Park saw him and, from the testimony, Kato saw the limo and was standing looking at it. Therefore, there is no way to say when Kato left his room except for two to three minutes after hearing the thumps, which would explain why Park did not see him until he arrived from behind the house, because Park was on the phone either paging his boss or talking to his mother, all of which is consistent with the ten forty five time line for the thumps. Could you be right as to the time? Could Park be mistaken as to the thirty second estimate? Could Kato be right as to his times? The point being is that no one can be sure. Therefore, there is reasonable doubt, imho.

It didn’t take Kaelin very long to walk from the back of the house to the driveway after he left his room two to three minutes after the hearing the noises. That’s when Allan Park first saw Kaelin. Park was on the telephone and his attention was attracted by the flashlight Kaelin was using when he came around the house.

An estimate of seconds between two events or a couple of minutes between two events is far more reliable than a guess as to what time of day something happened without having looked at a clock or having some kind of reliable reference to relate it to.

We know the time of day Allan Park saw both Kaelin and Simpson that night based on the documented times on Park’s telephone records. Based on the times on the telephone records and Kaelin’s testimony as to when he left his room we know the noises occurred about 10:51, 10:52.

bobaugust

[bobaugust]

If we credit Park's testimony about seeing Kato and the Black male figure at the same time, then we have Kato returning from his cursory search of the sound of the thumps, which is consistent with Kato's testimony of hearing the thumps at ten forty five.

Your comments are contradicted by what both Kaelin and Park testified to. Kaelin made two trips to the south path. After Kaelin heard the noises he left his room and walked around the house with a flashlight. That was when Allan Park saw him and then almost simultaneously Park saw Simpson walk up and enter his house. Kaelin testified he didn’t let Park in the gate because he thought Simpson would buzz the limo in so he continued on to the south path. Kaelin said he only went a short distance down the path and got scared so he turned around and returned to the front of the house. Kaelin saw the limo still waiting outside the gate so he opened the gate and let Park in. After Park pulled the limo into the estate and parked it Kaelin spoke with him and loaded Simpson’s golf clubs in the trunk. Kaelin then returned to the south path and got as far as the second gate when he decided not to investigate anymore and again returned to the front of the house. Kaelin never got close enough on either trip to see behind his room where the noises occurred and the glove was later found.

Park’s testimony was consistent with Kaelin’s regarding this. Park testified that after he saw Kaelin and then Simpson he completed his conversation with Dale and waited for someone to let him in, but no one did. So he got out of the car and rang the intercom again. This time Simpson answered, telling him he just got out of the shower and would be down in a minute. Park said he got back in the limo and continued waiting before Kaelin came over and let him in.

bobaugust

[tv]

Bet

Martin IIBet what?

[bobaugust]

Good morning, Ms. Tvdinner,

I am not a supporter of Simpson being innocent but when we look at the testimonies of Park and Kato, it becomes clear that Park did not see Kato until after Kato had performed his cursory search. IIRC, MF and Kato had similar flashlights (size wise). It is unclear as to what exactly Kato did in regard to a search but it is clear that he did not see the glove that MF alleged to have found in the same area that Kato searched twice.

Famous Quote by Sir Walter Scott
"Oh what a tangled web we weave,
When first we practise to deceive!"
Sir Walter Scott, Marmion, Canto vi. Stanza 17.

Kaelin made two trips to the south path. Park first saw Kaelin when Kaelin came from around the house after leaving his room to investigate the noises on his way to the south path. That was the first time Kaelin went back there. After Kaelin returned he let Park in the gate. A short time later Kaelin made his second trip to the south path. Kaelin never went more than half way down the path and never got close enough to see behind his room where the noises occurred and where the glove was later found.

bobaugust

[martin II]

Bet what?

that you would write a book under the conditions you stated.

maby i should have said OK.

[tv]

I think both of you would look good doing the electric slide. You are too young to know the mashed potatoes.
I was very young but I remember the mashed potatoes. I never learned the electric slide -- I was too busy taking care of my babies. :) Also, to be honest, I'm a terrible dancer.

[tv]

that you would write a book under the conditions you stated.

maby i should have said OK.

If I were going to write a book I'd do a lot of research so my facts would be credible and not wild speculation. I don't have the patience or time for research so I'll leave the book writing to more talented folks. :)

[William Anthony]

Your comments are contradicted by what both Kaelin and Park testified to. Kaelin made two trips to the south path. After Kaelin heard the noises he left his room and walked around the house with a flashlight. That was when Allan Park saw him and then almost simultaneously Park saw Simpson walk up and enter his house. Kaelin testified he didn’t let Park in the gate because he thought Simpson would buzz the limo in so he continued on to the south path. Kaelin said he only went a short distance down the path and got scared so he turned around and returned to the front of the house. Kaelin saw the limo still waiting outside the gate so he opened the gate and let Park in. After Park pulled the limo into the estate and parked it Kaelin spoke with him and loaded Simpson’s golf clubs in the trunk. Kaelin then returned to the south path and got as far as the second gate when he decided not to investigate anymore and again returned to the front of the house. Kaelin never got close enough on either trip to see behind his room where the noises occurred and the glove was later found.

Park’s testimony was consistent with Kaelin’s regarding this. Park testified that after he saw Kaelin and then Simpson he completed his conversation with Dale and waited for someone to let him in, but no one did. So he got out of the car and rang the intercom again. This time Simpson answered, telling him he just got out of the shower and would be down in a minute. Park said he got back in the limo and continued waiting before Kaelin came over and let him in.

bobaugust

I have done an extensive analysis of Park's and Kato's testimonies and posted them and it is clear that Kato did not see Simpson until after his first cursory search, since Park testified that he saw a figure, who some believe was Simpson at or near the same time he saw Kato. Therefore, allowing for the two to three minute time line kato waited after hearing the thumps and by the phone records you so heavily rely on, Park would have been on the phone getting his boss' phone number from his mother at the time Kato exited his quarters and explains why Park did not see him until after his return of his first cursory search. I will rely on my analysis, since the testimonies contradict yours. I do not know how far he got down the path nor how far the light from his flashlight reached. However, I am sure that MF claimed to have found a glove that appeared to be moist and shinny after several hours.

As to your second paragraph it adds nothing, imho, to the subject of our discussion.

[William Anthony]

Kaelin made two trips to the south path. Park first saw Kaelin when Kaelin came from around the house after leaving his room to investigate the noises on his way to the south path. That was the first time Kaelin went back there. After Kaelin returned he let Park in the gate. A short time later Kaelin made his second trip to the south path. Kaelin never went more than half way down the path and never got close enough to see behind his room where the noises occurred and where the glove was later found.

bobaugust

See response to post above. :)

[William Anthony]

I think both of you would look good doing the electric slide. You are too young to know the mashed potatoes.

I am not a proficient dancer, either but I do remember the mashed potatoes, the chicken, the b*tt, the Watusi, the Moon Walk, the Robot, the two step and several others that looked the same to me but had different names.

[tv]

I am not a proficient dancer, either but I do remember the mashed potatoes, the chicken, the b*tt, the Watusi, the Moon Walk, the Robot, the two step and several others that looked the same to me but had different names.
The b*tt? Are you sure you're not talking about the bump? By the way, bobaugust is on target with his analysis of the events at Rockingham involving Kato and Allan Park. It is what it is.

[William Anthony]

The b*tt? Are you sure you're not talking about the bump?

I had forgotten the bump but there was one called "doing the b*tt", which came out at or near the time of the song.

[martin II]

If I were going to write a book I'd do a lot of research so my facts would be credible and not wild speculation. I don't have the patience or time for research so I'll leave the book writing to more talented folks. :)

Well you have a lot of research already done on these threads. William has given a lot of law issues. But you would need a angle. A new Angle.

But a good book does require a lot of time. Some books written about oj were done in a month or so.

[tv]

I had forgotten the bump but there was one called "doing the b*tt", which came out at or near the time of the song.
Sounds like it involved parts of the body best left unshared. :)

[tv]

Well you have a lot of research already done on these threads. William has given a lot of law issues. But you would need a angle. A new Angle.

But a good book does require a lot of time. Some books written about oj were done in a month or so.
Some of the books on the case are trash (from both sides) and some are very well done. I think it's obvious in the first few pages whether or not a book is worth reading or was just thrown together for money. I agree about the new angle and I don't see one at this time. It would be fun to write a book about this forum itself.

[William Anthony]

Sounds like it involved parts of the body best left unshared. :)

http://books.google.com/books?id=1mC9vO5z77QC&pg=PA168&lpg=PA168&dq=dance+called+the+butt&source=bl&ots=2MijdPg6DY&sig=oYgBjUtjfQQp0Zj9D64BSDcWrIg&hl=en&ei=WWPPSaXXOIrtlQeRutTeCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result

:)

[martin II]

I was very young but I remember the mashed potatoes. I never learned the electric slide -- I was too busy taking care of my babies. :) Also, to be honest, I'm a terrible dancer.

HHMMM
I did not know that. i had the image of you bending knees and poping fingers
and SYT.HAHAHA

[tv]

http://books.google.com/books?id=1mC9vO5z77QC&pg=PA168&lpg=PA168&dq=dance+called+the+butt&source=bl&ots=2MijdPg6DY&sig=oYgBjUtjfQQp0Zj9D64BSDcWrIg&hl=en&ei=WWPPSaXXOIrtlQeRutTeCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result

:)

Oh, I see -- it's considered a black dance. William, you know I'm total white bread. :tongue:

[tv]

HHMMM
I did not know that. i had the image of you bending knees and poping fingers
and SYT.HAHAHANooo, more like cracking bones and knees.

[William Anthony]

The b*tt? Are you sure you're not talking about the bump? By the way, bobaugust is on target with his analysis of the events at Rockingham involving Kato and Allan Park. It is what it is.

bobaugust may be on target but I hit the target.:) See post 2700. Park testified that the first time he saw Kato he saw someone described as Simpson. Kato had finished his first cursory search at the time he saw Simpson. You are right the testimony and records are what they are.:) Allowing for the two to three minutes after the thumps to make his exit and time to do a cursory search before being seen by Park and taking into consideration the phone records, you are left with a time line that is consistent with hearing thumps at or near ten forty five. What I think some fail to realize is that Kato saw the limo before he did his cursory search but Park didn't see Kato at that time, as he was busy talking to his mother.

[martin II]

Some of the books on the case are trash (from both sides) and some are very well done. I think it's obvious in the first few pages whether or not a book is worth reading or was just thrown together for money. I agree about the new angle and I don't see one at this time. It would be fun to write a book about this forum itself.

A book about this forum would tell everyone where all the nuts are.hahaha

[tv]

bobaugust may be on target but I hit the target.:) See post 2700. Park testified that the first time he saw Kato he saw someone described as Simpson. Kato had finished his first cursory search at the time he saw Simpson. You are right the testimony and records are what they are.:) Allowing for the two to three minutes after the thumps to make his exit and time to do a cursory search before being seen by Park and taking into consideration the phone records, you are left with a time line that is consistent with hearing thumps at or near ten forty five. What I think some fail to realize is that Kato saw the limo before he did his cursory search but Park didn't see Kato at that time, as he was busy talking to his mother.

Sorry, William, I have to agree with the sequence of events as testified to by Kato and Park as being credible. This is one thing I don't waver on and I've read it extensively also. :)

[tv]

A book about this forum would tell everyone where all the nuts are.hahaha
I can't disagree with that. :D

[William Anthony]

Oh, I see -- it's considered a black dance. William, you know I'm total white bread. :tongue:

Some Whites did the dance and I believe they were totally Caucasian. You just made me want some corn bread, seriously:). I will have to see if that can be accommodated.

[tv]

Some Whites did the dance and I believe they were totally Caucasian. You just made me want some corn bread, seriously:). I will have to see if that can be accommodated.Some warm, sweet cornbread would be good but it's a little too early for me. You're giving away your southern roots. :)

[William Anthony]

Sorry, William, I have to agree with the sequence of events as testified to by Kato and Park as being credible. This is one thing I don't waver on and I've read it extensively also. :)

Post 2700 has their testimonies and not just what some believe was their testimonies. It is not refuted that Park testified to first seeing Kato at a time he simultaneously saw Simpson and Kato testified that was after his first cursory search. You may have overlooked that in your desire to want to make the sounds of the thumps later than as opposed to closer to ten forty five.

[William Anthony]

Some warm, sweet cornbread would be good but it's a little too early for me. You're giving away your southern roots. :)

My roots are Africa-the birthplace of mankind. :) My American ancestral roots are southern.

[tv]

Post 2700 has their testimonies and not just what some believe was their testimonies. It is unrefutable that Park testified to first seeing Kato at a time he simultaneously saw Simpson and Kato testified that was after his first cursory search. You may have overlooked that in your desire to want to make the sounds of the thumps later than as opposed to closer to ten forty five.No, I stand by what I believe the testimony shows. Kato also said at some point (don't know if this was actual testimony) that it only took 30 seconds to get from his room to the front of the house.

[tv]

My roots are Africa-the birthplace of mankind. :) My American ancestral roots are southern.Then I suppose mine are too as I consider myself part of mankind. My maternal roots are southern. My paternal roots are in NYC after my father and his family immigrated from Sweden. See, you're not the only one oozing with diversity. :)

[William Anthony]

No, I stand by what I believe the testimony shows. Kato also said at some point (don't know if this was actual testimony) that it only took 30 seconds to get from his room to the front of the house.

But Park saw Simpson go in the front and saw Kato near the south pathway, and I have heard of no testimony where Kato was asked how long it took to reach the front of the house or do the cursory search. The explanation that Park did not see Kato exit his quarters or until after doing the first cursory search is born out by the phone records indicating he was on the phone with his mother.

[William Anthony]

Then I suppose mine are too as I consider myself part of mankind. My maternal roots are southern. My paternal roots are in NYC after my father and his family immigrated from Sweden. See, you're not the only one oozing with diversity. :)

Yes, I think your roots are in Africa. Isn't the diversity in America great?:)

[tv]

But Park saw Simpson go in the front and saw Kato near the south pathway, and I have heard of no testimony where Kato was asked how long it took to reach the front of the house or do the cursory search. The explanation that Park did not see Kato exit his quarters or until after doing the first cursory search is born out by the phone records indicating he was on the phone with his mother.I've already told you that I didn't think it was actual testimony. I don't see it the same way you do. :shrug:

[tv]

Yes, I think your roots are in Africa. Isn't the diversity in America great?:)I do believe Africa is considered the cradle of civilization. America is great -- the greatest country in the world -- let's just hope it stays that way. :)

[martin II]

bobaugust may be on target but I hit the target.:) See post 2700. Park testified that the first time he saw Kato he saw someone described as Simpson. Kato had finished his first cursory search at the time he saw Simpson. You are right the testimony and records are what they are.:) Allowing for the two to three minutes after the thumps to make his exit and time to do a cursory search before being seen by Park and taking into consideration the phone records, you are left with a time line that is consistent with hearing thumps at or near ten forty five. What I think some fail to realize is that Kato saw the limo before he did his cursory search but Park didn't see Kato at that time, as he was busy talking to his mother.

You are correct. No question about it.

Kato heard the noise at 10:40 10:45 left his room at 10:45-7 walked past AShford saw the limo but continued to go to the walkway.

When Kato had passed the front door oj was putting the duffle bags on the porch and moving the golf bag.

Park saw a AA go towards the front door and he told ST jOHN "Somebody home".Oj is inside and turns on the porch lights.

Park says the lights are on.

Kato walks back past the front door on his return and sees the porch lights have been turn on while he was in the walkway.

Park did not see the lights go on until after he had seen the AA go towards the door and Kato was in the walkway when the AA was seen by park going back towards the door.

OJ came down stairs the moment Kato passed the door going to the walkway and deposited he bags. So oj was in his house all the time.
And Kato heard the noise at 10:40 or 10:45 pm.

[tv]

You are correct. No question about it.

Kato heard the noise at 10:40 10:45 left his room at 10:45-7 walked past AShford saw the limo but continued to go to the walkway.

When Kato had passed the front door oj was putting the duffle bags on the porch and moving the golf bag.

Park saw a AA go towards the front door and he told ST jOHN "Somebody home".Oj is inside and turns on the porch lights.

Park says the lights are on.

Kato walks back past the front door on his return and sees the porch lights have been turn on while he was in the walkway.

Park did not see the lights go on until after he had seen the AA go towards the door and Kato was in the walkway when the AA was seen by park going back towards the door.

OJ came down stairs the moment Kato passed the door going to the walkway and deposited he bags. So oj was in his house all the time.
And Kato heard the noise at 10:40 or 10:45 pm.

Come on, martin. Even if you believe that he's not guilty, he was not in the house the whole time. If that wasn't him outside who was it?

[martin II]

William.

I am trying to make this as clear and short as i can.

Park did not see Kato and oj at the same time.

Park associated the lights coming on with the AA that he had just see walking towards the door.

Kato was definately in the south walkway when oj entered back into the house and turned the lights on.

your opinion please.

[martin II]

Come on, martin. Even if you believe that he's not guilty, he was not in the house the whole time. If that wasn't him outside who was it?

i don't think you are paying attention to the details.

I said oj came down with the two duffle bags moved the golf bag to the benches turned and walked back inside and turned the porch lights on.Kato was in the south walkway at this time.

The porch lights were not on when Kato walked TO the garage area,

A moment later the porch lights WERE ON when Kato walked back past the front door.
The duffle bags could not have gotten to the fornt porch or the golf bags moved unless oj had move them.
Park could not have seen KATO and oj at the same time because Kato was in the walkway when the porch lights came on.

Kato heard the noise at 10:40 or 10:45. 2-3 minutes to get past Park and the limo.

If Kato was standing looking around as park said why didn;t park just say hi i am the limo driver.

[tv]

i don't think you are paying attention to the details.

I said oj came down with the two duffle bags moved the gold bag to the benches turned and walked back innside and turned the porch lights on.

The porch lights were not on when Kato walked TO the garage area,

A moment later the porch lights WERE on when Kato walked back past the front door.
The duffle bags could not have gotten to the fornt porch or the golf bags moved unless oj had done it.
I'm paying very close attention to the details. He first saw Simpson near the Bentley in the driveway and saw him cross the driveway. He also testifed he never saw Simpson wave or gesture to him as Simpson had claimed or hold up a golf bag. Crossing the driveway and coming to the front door are two different things. Simpson had reason to lie; Park did not. It's obvious to me that Simpson put the small bag by the Bentley at the time that Park first saw him. As for the golf bag and duffle bags they could have easily been put there earlier.

[martin II]

Then I suppose mine are too as I consider myself part of mankind. My maternal roots are southern. My paternal roots are in NYC after my father and his family immigrated from Sweden. See, you're not the only one oozing with diversity. :)

Sweden is a great country. very people orientated.

[tv]

Sweden is a great country. very people orientated.
I'd like to go there someday but it won't be anytime soon. I still have quite a few relatives there.

[martin II]

I'm paying very close attention to the details. He first saw Simpson near the Bentley in the driveway and saw him cross the driveway. He also testifed he never saw Simpson wave or gesture to him as Simpson had claimed or hold up a golf bag. Crossing the driveway and coming to the front door are two different things. Simpson had reason to lie; Park did not. It's obvious to me that Simpson put the small bag by the Bentley at the time that Park first saw him. As for the golf bag and duffle bags they could have easily been put there earlier.

Park could not have seen OJ and Kato at the same time.

The lights came on imediately after Park said he saw the AA Enter the front door or walk to the front door.

Kato was definately in the south walkway at that time because THE LIGHTS WERE NOT ON WHEN HE PASSED GOING TO THE GARAGE AREA. BUT WERE ON WHEN HE WALKED BACK PAST THE DOOR COMMING FROM THE GARAGE AREA.

Park could not have seen Kato at the Ashford side when he saw the AA walk towards the door and the lights come on.

There is no other way to see it.

Kato said he saw no golf bag at the bench when he walked to the garage area. A moment later when he walked back from the garage area he saw the golf bag had been moved to the bench OJ moved that bag when he came out and deposited the duffle bags on the porch.

[William Anthony]

I've already told you that I didn't think it was actual testimony. I don't see it the same way you do. :shrug:

See post 2700.:)

[William Anthony]

Park could not have seen OJ and Kato at the same time.

The lights came on imediately after Park said he saw the AA Enter the front door or walk to the front door.

Kato was definately in the south walkway at that time because THE LIGHTS WERE NOT ON WHEN HE PASSED GOING TO THE GARAGE AREA. BUT WERE ON WHEN HE WALKED BACK PAST THE DOOR COMMING FROM THE GARAGE AREA.

Park could not have seen Kato at the Ashford side when he saw the AA walk towards the door and the lights come on.

There is no other way to see it.

Kato said he saw no golf bag at the bench when he walked to the garage area. A moment later when he walked back from the garage area he saw the golf bag had been moved to the bench OJ moved that bag when he came out and deposited the duffle bags on the porch.

You may be correct and I was just going by the testimonies in order to show the testimony was consistent with the ten forty five time of the thumps.

[tv]

See post 2700.:)
Oh, I have.

[martin II]

I'd like to go there someday but it won't be anytime soon. I still have quite a few relatives there.

Sweden was a great hoast country for many black jazz musicians that could not get their music accepted here because of segregation/racism.This is why Sweden has such a rich jazz culture even today.Black american jazz musicians transported their music to sweden and sweden accepted it with open arms.
Very smart of them.
Be careful about going there you may not leave.
martin II

[William Anthony]

I do believe Africa is considered the cradle of civilization. America is great -- the greatest country in the world -- let's just hope it stays that way. :)

Africa was called the Cradle of Civilization. However, archeological finds and the Bible explains to us the Africa is the birthplace of mankind.

[William Anthony]

Oh, I have.

Alrighty then. :)

[William Anthony]

I'd like to go there someday but it won't be anytime soon. I still have quite a few relatives there.

It is a shame to wish you life away.

[tv]

Sweden was a great hoast country for many black jazz musicians that could not get their music accepted here because of segregation/racism.This is why Sweden has such a rich jazz culture even today.Black american jazz musicians transported their music to sweden and sweden accepted it with open arms.
Very smart of them.
Be careful about going there you may not leave.
martin III think you know more about Sweden than I do. I didn't know about the Jazz musicians. I know the scenery is beautiful in pictures I've seen. I don't know if I'd care a lot for the food -- too fishy. :)

[tv]

It is a shame to wish you life away.
That's true -- that's why I don't. :)

[tv]

Africa was called the Cradle of Civilization. However, archeological finds and the Bible explains to us the Africa is the birthplace of mankind.
Pretty much the same to me.

[William Anthony]

That's true -- that's why I don't. :)

I know now that you will see Sweden.:)

[William Anthony]

Pretty much the same to me.

Alrighty then.:)

[tv]

I know now that you will see Sweden.:)

Perhaps not in this life but maybe in the next. :)

[William Anthony]

Perhaps not in this life but maybe in the next. :)

Maybe Martin and I will see you there.:)

[tv]

Maybe Martin and I will see you there.:)I'm sure that's true. :)

[William Anthony]

I'm sure that's true. :)

Don't forget the cake.

[martin II]

You may be correct and I was just going by the testimonies in order to show the testimony was consistent with the ten forty five time of the thumps.

I understand and i am trying to show that Park did not see oj and Kato at the same time as Kato had left his room at about 10:45-6 passed the ashford area and was in the walkway area when park saw oj and the lights come on.

[martin II]

I think you know more about Sweden than I do. I didn't know about the Jazz musicians. I know the scenery is beautiful in pictures I've seen. I don't know if I'd care a lot for the food -- too fishy. :)

They do fish in many ways and can work wonders with Salmom.I have only been there for a few days at a time so did not get tired of the fish.But they also do certain beef.But the people are so relaxed and friendly and men get holidays when his wife has a baby. hahaha

Many of the older jazz musicians still live there and there are yearly international Jazz concerts held in sweden.

Many people believe that Nokia cell phone is Japaneese but in fact it is swedish.

[William Anthony]

I understand and i am trying to show that Park did not see oj and Kato at the same time as Kato had left his room at about 10:45-6 passed the ashford area and was in the walkway area when park saw oj and the lights come on.

Yes and that was after Kato had finished his first cursory search, which is born out by the testimony where Kato says that is when he saw Simpson. Park missed Kato exit his room, because Park was talking to his mother, and saw Kato when he returned from his first cursory search and then Park saw someone he thought was Simpson. Some want to make this the time that Kato left his quarters but his testimony tells us it wasn't.

[serpentsfall]

I have done an extensive analysis of Park's and Kato's testimonies and posted them and it is clear that Kato did not see Simpson until after his first cursory search, since Park testified that he saw a figure, who some believe was Simpson at or near the same time he saw Kato. Therefore, allowing for the two to three minute time line kato waited after hearing the thumps and by the phone records you so heavily rely on, Park would have been on the phone getting his boss' phone number from his mother at the time Kato exited his quarters and explains why Park did not see him until after his return of his first cursory search. I will rely on my analysis, since the testimonies contradict yours. I do not know how far he got down the path nor how far the light from his flashlight reached. However, I am sure that MF claimed to have found a glove that appeared to be moist and shinny after several hours.

As to your second paragraph it adds nothing, imho, to the subject of our discussion.

William, I think you are assuming it would be impossible for Park to see Kato and Simpson in the same general area at the same time that Kato says he did not see Simpson. Kato apparently wasn't looking in Simpson's direction - he was looking in Park's direction. Its totally possible that Park would be able to see Simpson beyond Kato and Kato not see Simpson because Kato wasn't looking in Simpson's direction.

[martin II]

Perhaps not in this life but maybe in the next. :)

I think it would be good for you to go to sweden and then to the Nile river area so you can get a perspective on where you came from or how you got to where you are.imo

[William Anthony]

They do fish in many ways and can work wonders with Salmom.I have only been there for a few days at a time so did not get tired of the fish.But they also do certain beef.But the people are so relaxed and friendly and men get holidays when his wife has a baby. hahaha

Many of the older jazz musicians still live there and there are yearly international Jazz concerts held in sweden.

Many people believe that Nokia cell phone is Japaneese but in fact it is swedish.

You have traveled very much. I have traveled in the United States, fear of flying and ocean voyages, :). I am afraid that, if driving will not get me there, I won't get there.

[weezer]

Africa was called the Cradle of Civilization. However, archeological finds and the Bible explains to us the Africa is the birthplace of mankind.

what version of the Bible are you reading?

[William Anthony]

William, I think you are assuming it would be impossible for Park to see Kato and Simpson in the same general area at the same time that Kato says he did not see Simpson. Kato apparently wasn't looking in Simpson's direction - he was looking in Park's direction. Its totally possible that Park would be able to see Simpson beyond Kato and Kato not see Simpson because Kato wasn't looking in Simpson's direction.

You seem to forget that Kato then looked toward the south pathway, which would have inevitably brought Simpson into view or the knapsack but Kato did not see either until after he did his first cursory search. The prosecution vouched for the ten forty five time of thumps. Some realize that it doesn't fit and now want to change it but what the prosecution realized by interviews with the witnesses and their prior statements was that Park saw Kato after Kato did his first cursory search. Is there any doubt that there is reasonable doubt on this issue?

[William Anthony]

what version of the Bible are you reading?

The King James version. You do realize that Africa is a continent, don't you?

[martin II]

William, I think you are assuming it would be impossible for Park to see Kato and Simpson in the same general area at the same time that Kato says he did not see Simpson. Kato apparently wasn't looking in Simpson's direction - he was looking in Park's direction. Its totally possible that Park would be able to see Simpson beyond Kato and Kato not see Simpson because Kato wasn't looking in Simpson's direction.

The answer is in the fact that Park saw the AA walk towards the front door and the lights come on and he said someone is home.Based on Katos testimony he,Kato was in the south walkway when the porch lights came on as they were not on when he passed the door going to the south walkway and were on when he returned from the south walkway going to open the gate. So it seems to me that oj came out with the duffle nags and moved the golf bag and returned to the house and turned the lights on while Kato was in the south walkway.
I hope i have said this so that it is plain and easy to understand.

[GreenIce]

He was next of kin to the two motherless children found sleeping at the scene of their mother's murder. Given the amount of time you spend pondering the events of that night, doesn't it doesn't seem odd to you that in all these years they've never attempted to discuss any of the topics you discuss every day with their father?

Serpentsfall,

Ever wonder how MF knew that the Simpsons' had joint custody of the children---he testifed about this in the prelim hearing.

I have no problem with the detectives yammering on about how they only cared for the children, etc. However, Sydney and Justin sat in the police station for hours before any attempt was made to contact Simpson. The only reason why they made no attempt to contact Simpson at Rockingham is because they already knew he had left town, they already knew he was in Chicago and they already knew that Arnelle lived on the estate, they already knew a maid also lived in the main house.

The fact that police later lied about this, was the kiss of death for the DA's and the judge's credibility with the jury, IMO.

[weezer]

Serpentsfall,

Ever wonder how MF knew that the Simpsons' had joint custody of the children---he testifed about this in the prelim hearing.

I have no problem with the detectives yammering on about how they only cared for the children, etc. However, Sydney and Justin sat in the police station for hours before any attempt was made to contact Simpson. The only reason why they made no attempt to contact Simpson at Rockingham is because they already knew he had left town, they already knew he was in Chicago and they already knew that Arnelle lived on the estate, they already knew a maid also lived in the main house.

The fact that police later lied about this, was the kiss of death for the DA's and the judge's credibility with the jury, IMO.

you have just taken all common sense, evidence and testimony of everyone -- including arnelle -- and thrown it out the window in order to draw your conclusions. What nonsense.

[weezer]

The King James version. You do realize that Africa is a continent, don't you?

interesting -- mind sharing book and chapter where you read that?

[William Anthony]

The answer is in the fact that Park saw the AA walk towards the front door and the lights come on and he said someone is home.Based on Katos testimony he,Kato was in the south walkway when the porch lights came on as they were not on when he passed the door going to the south walkway and were on when he returned from the south walkway going to open the gate. So it seems to me that oj came out with the duffle nags and moved the golf bag and returned to the house and turned the lights on while Kato was in the south walkway.
I hope i have said this so that it is plain and easy to understand.

To those that have ears let them hear. To those that have eyes, let them see. A receptive mind and open heart will allow you to go further than you dreamed.

[martin II]

If one looks at the Rockingham layout it is plain that:
1. Katos quarters is in the extreme west/ south of the main house.
2. He would walk the length of the back of the house and the north side of the house to get to the Ashford side of the property. walking time i guess 1 1/2 minutes or less.
3. Park would be parked a few feet east and north at the Ashford gate maby 6-9 feet or a little more from where Kato would have been standing.if he did stand there.
The front door would be about 20-30 yards from the Ashford gate about half the house length and the south walkway would be another 20-30 feet from the front door.the other half of the house.
Park would not be looking at Kato to his left and oj straight in front at the door at the same time.
Kato would have to come out of the walkway to see oj or Park.

martin II

[William Anthony]

interesting -- mind sharing book and chapter where you read that?

Genesis. To those that have minds let them think. Adam means ruddy complected of the earth. The vision of God in the burning bush. Adam and Eve were naked (warm climate).

To them that have eyes and are capable of reading let them read.

http://www.kjvbible.org/rivers_of_the_garden_of_eden.html

To them that have wisdom let them understand.