Caylee Anthony Case Discussion Only

[lorettalockhorn]

Just my opine on the accidental thing. It just does not fly with me. Remember the computer searches prior to her death. I just dont buy Caylee was unlucky enough to have a sociopathic mother who was unlucky enough to have accidently killed her. MOO

Totally agree. Even if the duct tape was the accidental cause of Caylee's death through asphyxiation or aspiration, Casey had time to prevent Caylee's death. And for some reason, I think the prosecution has some inkling of this or she would be charged with manslaughter instead of capital murder.

[lorettalockhorn]

YES!!!! finally Miss Queen B*tch doesn't get her way....

does this report include photos as well? because i don't care how public the records are i don't think photos of a childs bones should be public, but i will be reading the report as soon as i see it

HURRAY FOR SHOOTING DOWN THE ANTHONY'S :beer:

and for caylee who deserved none of this :rose:

From what was said on the CNN shows last night, there will be no photos. Glad this is not being sealed; the Ants had no legal standing here and anguish is not a legal term according to talking heads. It's easy enough for them to avoid the results; in fact I believe George stated that they haven't seen the results and don't plan to read them.

IF the Ants are so anguished, they would be better served to spend their time in the grieving process rather than traipsing around the countryside making liars and asses of themselves (on the thing).

[lorettalockhorn]

Caylee Autopsy Report Will Be Released
George Anthony Makes Emotional Plea To Judge

http://www.wesh.com/news/19800528/detail.html

ORLANDO, Fla. -- The family of Caylee Anthony gathered in an Orange County courtroom on Friday to try to seal the autopsy results of their slain granddaughter, but a judge turned down the motion.

George Anthony delivered an emotional plea to Judge Stan Strickland asking that the results of the autopsy be held until the Casey Anthony trial begins. He said the public could misinterpret and sensationalize the findings.

"Please give us some peace and show us some dignity by keeping this report sealed," George Anthony said. "Thank you, judge, for giving me this brief moment. It's all for her. This is for her today."

Cindy Anthony, the grandmother of Caylee, was also in the courtroom for the hearing and appeared to be crying during the testimony, holding her head in her hands.

Casey Anthony did not attend the hearing Friday. She is charged with first-degree murder in the death of her daughter, Caylee, who was 2 years old when she was reported missing in June 2008. Caylee's remains were found in woods not far from the Anthony family's home in Orange County.

Attorneys for the defense asked George Anthony about the numerous TV appearances he's made regarding the investigation before the attorney for the family, Brad Conway, addressed Strickland.

Conway said he saw no reason for the autopsy results to be released, saying the information would cause needless additional pain and suffering to his clients.

But Strickland said the results contained only factual information, and while he wished he could assist the Anthonys in the matter, he found no legal reason to stop the release of the autopsy findings.

"Legally, the anguish that they feel is just not the test for whether or not this information should be released," Strickland said. "I think it is information that the public has a right to see."

Cindy Anthony shook her head back and forth as the ruling was announced.

"I'm not happy to make the ruling. In fact, I wish I didn't have to, but it's something that I legally have to do," Strickland said.

Some X-ray images that were included in the autopsy report will be withheld.

Jose Baez, the defense attorney for Casey Anthony, asked that the release of the report be delayed for 48 hours to allow the defense team time to prepare. Strickland denied the request.

The defense made another request to remove descriptions of the X-ray images, but Strickland said both sides would have to agree on their removal before it would be considered by the court.

George Anthony's Plea
http://www.wesh.com/video/19800997/index.html

Hearing Images
javascript:popUp('/slideshow/news/19801036/detail.html','width=1024,height=750,top=0,left=0,s crollbars');

Judge Stan Strickland's Ruling
http://www.wesh.com/video/19801101/index.html

Special Section
http://www.wesh.com/caseyanthony/

Gimme a break George. Is it really about Caylee today? Not Casey and the speculation and the anguish and the media intrusion? What about the other 367 since you claim that you last saw Caylee?

[Justice Denied?]

someone had a theory a couple days ago...i cannot find the post but i will paraphrase as much as i can....

perhaps casey was preparing to leave the house to visit one of her boyfriends and caylee was throwing a tantrum about her leaving and casey "lost it" and either smothered her with a pillow to keep her quiet or put the tape over her mouth and accidently covered her nose as well, when she went back to check on caylee she was surprised to see her not moving or breathing and that is when she panicked and stuffed the body in the bags and stashed her in the trunk............

i am sure i missed some stuff but that was the jist of what somebody else had said....but if caylee didn't die with that duct tape on her mouth then i cannot see the point in taping her up after the fact, it just seems like too much work for miss lazy casey

I don't believe that Caylee's death was accidental. It's too coincidental for her to die the day afer Cindy and Casey had a big fight (assuming that story is true). I think it's possible that Casey added the tape after Caylee was dead to back up her kidnap story. JMO, MOO

[Gatordog]

Good post, Gator.

I didn't know anything about the resume, however. What was that?

My reasoning for thinking it was a deliberate murder are the following points:

1) Casey's diary entry just days after the murder that talked about "her decision" and that she knows she did the right thing.

2) The MySpace account that had a countdown number. What was it? Like 56 days or something? She was counting down until Caylee's birthday when she knew that the jig would be up, and her mother would totally demand to see Caylee.

3) The duct tape. Just no explanation for it, if there was an accident.

4) The fight on the 15th where Cindy threatened custody.

5) Going to Blockbuster w/ Tony the night of Caylee's death. If it were an accident, she wouldn't be so calm that night. But she planned to kill Casey and be a "free woman."

The only thing that would tend to support the accident theory were:

1) "flurry of phone calls" on the 16th.

But what if she was trying to get her parents to babysit for her, couldn't reach them on the phone, and that's what ultimately caused her to snap and kill Caylee. She just decided she would "act out" her longtime fantasy and in doing so, punish her mother.

That's my theory.

IIRC, when the stink car was picked up from the towing company, Cindy went through it at home. She found a resume of Amy H. She called that number in hopes of getting info as to where the Liar has been or could be found. She may have had it to steal Amy's identity along with her money but she forgot it in the car.

As to the flurry of calls - the killing took longer than planned. She wanted to make sure that Cindy was not on her way home since she left her office at different times.

[JLette]

From what was said on the CNN shows last night, there will be no photos. Glad this is not being sealed; the Ants had no legal standing here and anguish is not a legal term according to talking heads. It's easy enough for them to avoid the results; in fact I believe George stated that they haven't seen the results and don't plan to read them.

IF the Ants are so anguished, they would be better served to spend their time in the grieving process rather than traipsing around the countryside making liars and asses of themselves (on the thing).

exactly!!! they chose to live in florida, and they raised a psycho daughter, and notice how its only painful when its something they are not getting their way about, it has nothing to do with caylee anymore, its all about them playing the system and trying to remold the laws of their state, maybe they should just NOT watch TV and NOT read the paper and actually GRIEVE for their lost grandchild, instead of spending all this time and energy becoming wannabe celebs

[BeastofBears]

Link to the autopsy report: http://www.wftv.com/index.html

[deacon]

I don't believe that Caylee's death was accidental. It's too coincidental for her to die the day afer Cindy and Casey had a big fight (assuming that story is true). I think it's possible that Casey added the tape after Caylee was dead to back up her kidnap story. JMO, MOO

Hmm you just may be correct.

[BeastofBears]

Video of today's hearing:
http://cfnews13.com/MediaPlayer2/MediaPlayer.htm?video=AUTOPSYHEARING_061920091153&cat=Local&title=Caylees%20Autopsy%20Hearing

George went on about how difficult all this has been to his family and the intrusion of the media into his life.

The attorney for the Orlando Sentinel asked him: How many TV shows have you been on so far. George: I haven't counted. Attorney: How many times have you been on Larry King? GA: Twice. Attorney: You were on the morning shows this week: GA: Yes

Kudos to the Attorney.

Gator

Thank you, attorney. Public figures, imo.

[JLette]

I don't believe that Caylee's death was accidental. It's too coincidental for her to die the day afer Cindy and Casey had a big fight (assuming that story is true). I think it's possible that Casey added the tape after Caylee was dead to back up her kidnap story. JMO, MOO

i had this thought before as well, because as the computer searches back up somebody was looking up murder and missing children, so she had probably been planning this for a while, but if she was planning it she did a piss poor job on her story IMO

[lorettalockhorn]

I don't believe that Caylee's death was accidental. It's too coincidental for her to die the day afer Cindy and Casey had a big fight (assuming that story is true). I think it's possible that Casey added the tape after Caylee was dead to back up her kidnap story. JMO, MOO

That's a possibility too, but it doesn't fit into the Timer 55 tihsllub; if Casey followed Zanny's instructions, Caylee would be released. Unless Casey was figuring that LE would never find Caylee and/or figure out within reason a range for the time of death. Maybe instead of googling "shovel" she should have been brushing up on forensic botany.

[lorettalockhorn]

Thanks to everyone for links today!

(Someone needs to remind Cindy that on her way out the door, she should remove at least one item of jewelry.)

[BeastofBears]

Possible TMI warning (as an archaeologist, I get into detail on these things)

Autopsy, Point I.B.1.a.+b. (http://www.wftv.com/pdf/19801498/detail.html)

The vertebra were found "clustered" away from the skull and bags. It likely means a largish animal, like dog sized, imo, dragged the torso away when there was still a great deal of soft tissue, imo, as otherwise the vertebra would not be "clustered"...I am kind of surprised the skull would not have gone with it. But several clusters were found, so this is really sad. Caylee's body was pulled apart :( imo

But these vertebra had a vegetation growing through them, so they were left where a scavenger left them for a long time. No body moving, imo.

[BeastofBears]

Possible TMI warning (as an archaeologist, I get into detail on these things)

Autopsy, Point I.B.1.a.+b. (http://www.wftv.com/pdf/19801498/detail.html)

The vertebra were found "clustered" away from the skull and bags. It likely means a largish animal, like dog sized, imo, dragged the torso away when there was still a great deal of soft tissue, imo, as otherwise the vertebra would not be "clustered"...I am kind of surprised the skull would not have gone with it. But several clusters were found, so this is really sad. Caylee's body was pulled apart :( imo

But these vertebra had a vegetation growing through them, so they were left where a scavenger left them for a long time. No body moving, imo.

Also note on Point I.C.

The duct tape is "several" overlapping pieces, and they cover not only the mandible but the maxilla. The maxilla is the bone holding your upper teeth and significantly, the nasal opening.

[BeastofBears]

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/19801734/detail.html

Ilium (the "wing" shaped part of the pelvis) dispersal note: little movement by water, most was by animal activity. Where there was water movement, as shown by the mud burial of the unfused ilium, it demonstrates summer storm movement, per the report.

[BeastofBears]

Okay, after reading this, imo, they have the time of exposure well covered. 1) the bones were moved by animals, but some are in alluvial mud, showing summer storms rained on them. 2) roots are growing into the vertebral bodies-that takes time and the growing season 3) the bones are so dry they aren't even greasy, again, lots of time in the elements 4) and they did stratigraphy on the leaf layer: she was there before the leaves fell.

This reads like an archaeological excavation report. imo, they did a great job.

On the other hand, this was really sad. It's bad enough reading these reports with kids thousands of years old, but this? Not fair. Of course, it wasn't fair that a child died 3,000 years ago, either.

Reading about how she was torn apart by animals is bad. You can't write stuff like that dry enough. :( (I hope my notes were helpful to anyone who doesn't know osteology)

[deacon]

Possible TMI warning (as an archaeologist, I get into detail on these things)

Autopsy, Point I.B.1.a.+b. (http://www.wftv.com/pdf/19801498/detail.html)

The vertebra were found "clustered" away from the skull and bags. It likely means a largish animal, like dog sized, imo, dragged the torso away when there was still a great deal of soft tissue, imo, as otherwise the vertebra would not be "clustered"...I am kind of surprised the skull would not have gone with it. But several clusters were found, so this is really sad. Caylee's body was pulled apart :( imo

But these vertebra had a vegetation growing through them, so they were left where a scavenger left them for a long time. No body moving, imo.

That is exactly what was said. So much for the idea of "someone else put the body there while casey was in jail.:no: Shot that out of the saddle.

[deacon]

Also note on Point I.C.

The duct tape is "several" overlapping pieces, and they cover not only the mandible but the maxilla. The maxilla is the bone holding your upper teeth and significantly, the nasal opening.

Yep supports one of my thoughts on cause of death. Not a good one though.:(

[BeastofBears]

On table one of that report listing out the bones found, I just did a quick eyeball count, and there are a LOT of bones they did not find.

I take back my argument against a memorial park being placed there.

[beemer]

Thanks so much BoB. It just cements what we knew all along. Poor Caylee to think that was happening to her body and Liar was doing well whatever she was doing :flamemad:

[One2Snoop]

Okay, after reading this, imo, they have the time of exposure well covered. 1) the bones were moved by animals, but some are in alluvial mud, showing summer storms rained on them. 2) roots are growing into the vertebral bodies-that takes time and the growing season 3) the bones are so dry they aren't even greasy, again, lots of time in the elements 4) and they did stratigraphy on the leaf layer: she was there before the leaves fell.

This reads like an archaeological excavation report. imo, they did a great job.

On the other hand, this was really sad. It's bad enough reading these reports with kids thousands of years old, but this? Not fair. Of course, it wasn't fair that a child died 3,000 years ago, either.

Reading about how she was torn apart by animals is bad. You can't write stuff like that dry enough. :( (I hope my notes were helpful to anyone who doesn't know osteology)

Excellent! Thanks for interpreting.

[BeastofBears]

Yep supports one of my thoughts on cause of death. Not a good one though.:(

Yeah. I have my opinion set on how I think it happened now, too. There's not a lot of room between the mouth and the nasal aperture in a toddler. It is 6 cm from chin to nostrils in a 3.5 year old (my boy is bigger than Caylee by far), and 2 cm from mouth to nostrils. My roll of duct tape is 5 cm wide. How many layers of THAT do you need to cover a mouth? The multiple layers tell me anger was involved, and imo, her nose was covered.

Whoever did this needs to pay the full price, to state the obvious.

[beemer]

Poor Caylee :rose:

[deacon]

Yeah. I have my opinion set on how I think it happened now, too. There's not a lot of room between the mouth and the nasal aperture in a toddler. It is 6 cm from chin to nostrils in a 3.5 year old (my boy is bigger than Caylee by far), and 2 cm from mouth to nostrils. My roll of duct tape is 5 cm wide. How many layers of THAT do you need to cover a mouth? The multiple layers tell me anger was involved, and imo, her nose was covered.

Whoever did this needs to pay the full price, to state the obvious.

I agree. This is one that I could "pull the switch on." Not many I can say about that.

[beemer]

I agree. This is one that I could "pull the switch on." Not many I can say about that.

I so agree deacon-where's that pic-where are ya Loretta? OS?

[deacon]

I so agree deacon-where's that pic-where are ya Loretta? OS?

And just think, I was once an electrician. I would know how to "hook her up" in the appropriate way.:cuss:

Oh, I am bad.

[BeastofBears]

OKay, I found a light moment: did you guys know that they actually DID a pizza and dead squirrel experiment?! check out page 6554 of http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/caylee-anthony/orl-caylee-anthony-autopsy-2,0,3085300.htmlpage

[deacon]

OKay, I found a light moment: did you guys know that they actually DID a pizza and dead squirrel experiment?! check out page 6554 of http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/caylee-anthony/orl-caylee-anthony-autopsy-2,0,3085300.htmlpage

"A hit and run victim" That was rich. Showed a sense of humor. Oh, and btw, that shoots both cindy's and casey's theorys out of the water. (With a bigggggggg cannon) I ain't a scientist and I could understand that. Nope to the pizza and nope to the "fuzzy tailed rat."

[BeastofBears]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/caylee-anthony/orl-caylee-anthony-autopsy-1,0,3019763.htmlpage page 6446

It notes that silt and SAND, along with soil, were found in the laundry bag with Caylee. Is sand normally found on that piece of land? Gator might know? I'm thinking of the sandbox, of course...

ETA: never mind: the interior of the skull had "sandy dirt" (page 6447), so there must be sand out there...

[BeastofBears]

I kept hearing around the the hyoid (the throat bone that can signal strangulation) was intact. The report says it is missing along with hand and foot bones...page 6447.?

[BeastofBears]

Page 6453 http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/caylee-anthony/orl-caylee-anthony-autopsy-1,0,3019763.htmlpage

"...grayish colored tape was noted covering the mouth and nasal aperture areas."

There it is.

[beemer]

And just think, I was once an electrician. I would know how to "hook her up" in the appropriate way.:cuss:

Oh, I am bad.
So do we wet the sponge on her head or not? I cant remember :D

[Gatordog]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/caylee-anthony/orl-caylee-anthony-autopsy-1,0,3019763.htmlpage page 6446

It notes that silt and SAND, along with soil, were found in the laundry bag with Caylee. Is sand normally found on that piece of land? Gator might know? I'm thinking of the sandbox, of course...

ETA: never mind: the interior of the skull had "sandy dirt" (page 6447), so there must be sand out there...

Yes, very sandy soil there. Patches of area are sandy and not soil.

[BeastofBears]

Yes, very sandy soil there. Patches of area are sandy and not soil.

Thanks, Gator.

I can sure see why there was a fight to not release this. It disproves nearly every excuse that's been offered, imo.

[beemer]

Thanks, Gator.

I can sure see why there was a fight to not release this. It disproves nearly every excuse that's been offered, imo.

For sure :rose:

[Amy]

OKay, I found a light moment: did you guys know that they actually DID a pizza and dead squirrel experiment?! check out page 6554 of http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/caylee-anthony/orl-caylee-anthony-autopsy-2,0,3085300.htmlpage

I'm thinking there was discussion a long time ago about the state doing the pizza experiment, don't recall so much about the squirrels. Probably because they didn't really need to experiment whether or not DEAD squirrels could get themselves into an engine.

I don't remember so much whether or not we had all decided they DID do it, back then. But the discussion centered more on--if the state DOES the experiment, it would give the defense an opening for reasonable doubt, as the experiment would prove they weren't SURE there had been a dead body in the car. The other argument was that, if they did NOT do the experiment, the defense could cry rush to judgement and all that garbage.

[lorettalockhorn]

I kept hearing around the the hyoid (the throat bone that can signal strangulation) was intact. The report says it is missing along with hand and foot bones...page 6447.?

Gee, I would have sworn that Dr. G said at one time that the hyoid bone was not broken. Maybe she said not located? :shrug:

The Ants can at least be happy to know that the autopsy report will end any speculation that Casey bashed Caylee's skull or most likely didn't break her ribs and cause pneumothorax, ruptured spleen or torn aorta.

Oh wait. Casey is still responsible.

ETA: Thanks for the osteo-guidance! :seeya:

[lorettalockhorn]

I'm thinking there was discussion a long time ago about the state doing the pizza experiment, don't recall so much about the squirrels. Probably because they didn't really need to experiment whether or not DEAD squirrels could get themselves into an engine.

I don't remember so much whether or not we had all decided they DID do it, back then. But the discussion centered more on--if the state DOES the experiment, it would give the defense an opening for reasonable doubt, as the experiment would prove they weren't SURE there had been a dead body in the car. The other argument was that, if they did NOT do the experiment, the defense could cry rush to judgement and all that garbage.

Same here remembering talk of the pizza experiment. Wonder where they got the dead adult tree rat? Can you imagine being on squirrel procurement duty? Don't think that these experiments prove that LE had any reason to doubt that Casey's and Cindy's manufactured smell stories were or weren't true, just that they wanted to disprove them at the outset of the forensic investigation.

[Amy]

Same here remembering talk of the pizza experiment. Wonder where they got the dead adult tree rat? Can you imagine being on squirrel procurement duty? Don't think that these experiments prove that LE had any reason to doubt that Casey's and Cindy's manufactured smell stories were or weren't true, just that they wanted to disprove them at the outset of the forensic investigation.

Bolding mine:

I would think being in charge of getting the squirrels would be one of the easiest assignments. Dead squirrels don't have to be chased, and if FL is anything like here, you can find them on about any tree-lined street!!! :biggrin:

[BeastofBears]

Same here remembering talk of the pizza experiment. Wonder where they got the dead adult tree rat? Can you imagine being on squirrel procurement duty? Don't think that these experiments prove that LE had any reason to doubt that Casey's and Cindy's manufactured smell stories were or weren't true, just that they wanted to disprove them at the outset of the forensic investigation.

Its on page 6554. deacon wasn't kidding. They really did call it a "apparent hit-and-run victim". They got it from a zooarchaeologist. We collect dead animals and skeletonize them for type specimens so when we find bones on a site, we know what they come from.

eta: let me amend the "we", I'm not a zooarchaeologist, I meant archaeos in general...I have not skeletonized any animals, just let people know where I saw some good dead ones. I mean, eww! I like my dead already cleaned by nature, or mummified.

[BeastofBears]

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/19803207/detail.html

THIS is funny. Its Morgan's response to Casey not coming to his deposition. I like Morgan.

[Gatordog]

I'm thinking there was discussion a long time ago about the state doing the pizza experiment, don't recall so much about the squirrels. Probably because they didn't really need to experiment whether or not DEAD squirrels could get themselves into an engine.

I don't remember so much whether or not we had all decided they DID do it, back then. But the discussion centered more on--if the state DOES the experiment, it would give the defense an opening for reasonable doubt, as the experiment would prove they weren't SURE there had been a dead body in the car. The other argument was that, if they did NOT do the experiment, the defense could cry rush to judgement and all that garbage.

WFTV did the pizza test - twice. Once with just the lotsa meatsa pizza and the with the meatsa pizza and laundry detergent as Dr Lee said was in the trunk. The first pizza only smelled of oregano and spices and the second pizza smelled like cottony fresh oreagano. ;)

I rarely take home leftover pizza as my mom usually takes it. She left a half a pizza in my car last month for me to take home and I didn't realize it. I finally found it after a week only because I went to the back of the car to load groceries. It didn't smell except when I opened the lid. It only smelled like oregano and it was dried up like a stone. There was no moisture left so it couldn't rot or stink.

[Gatordog]

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/19803207/detail.html

THIS is funny. Its Morgan's response to Casey not coming to his deposition. I like Morgan.

It's refreshing to read a legal motion that is grammatically correct and to the point. I especially liked page 4.

BoB - thanks for your explanations regarding the autopsy report. They were extremely helpful. Gee I guess someone other than Cindy Anthony can understand the report and not embellish. :cool:

Gator

[JLette]

WFTV did the pizza test - twice. Once with just the lotsa meatsa pizza and the with the meatsa pizza and laundry detergent as Dr Lee said was in the trunk. The first pizza only smelled of oregano and spices and the second pizza smelled like cottony fresh oreagano. ;)

I rarely take home leftover pizza as my mom usually takes it. She left a half a pizza in my car last month for me to take home and I didn't realize it. I finally found it after a week only because I went to the back of the car to load groceries. It didn't smell except when I opened the lid. It only smelled like oregano and it was dried up like a stone. There was no moisture left so it couldn't rot or stink.


yea i have had pizza sit over night in my kitchen and the next morning its dried out and stale, hell even if you refrigerate it it gets kinda gross, but not stinky imo

[BeastofBears]

WFTV did the pizza test - twice. Once with just the lotsa meatsa pizza and the with the meatsa pizza and laundry detergent as Dr Lee said was in the trunk. The first pizza only smelled of oregano and spices and the second pizza smelled like cottony fresh oreagano. ;)

I rarely take home leftover pizza as my mom usually takes it. She left a half a pizza in my car last month for me to take home and I didn't realize it. I finally found it after a week only because I went to the back of the car to load groceries. It didn't smell except when I opened the lid. It only smelled like oregano and it was dried up like a stone. There was no moisture left so it couldn't rot or stink.

In my vast experience as a Car Pig, I have left many a rotting item in the car, pizza probably being the least offensive, the Heat-Wave-Exploding-Milk-Gallon being the most offensive.

None of my inadvertent composting experiences resulted in the smell of human decomp, imo. Everything has its own smell. I'm with you.

Just as an aside, how much fun did the interns have making pizza rot? Bet they expected a lot more glamour than that, lol! (And yeah, I'm assuming interns did the dirty work...)

[BeastofBears]

It's refreshing to read a legal motion that is grammatically correct and to the point. I especially liked page 4.

BoB - thanks for your explanations regarding the autopsy report. They were extremely helpful. Gee I guess someone other than Cindy Anthony can understand the report and not embellish. :cool:

Gator

I do my homework ;)

[lorettalockhorn]

It's refreshing to read a legal motion that is grammatically correct and to the point. I especially liked page 4.

BoB - thanks for your explanations regarding the autopsy report. They were extremely helpful. Gee I guess someone other than Cindy Anthony can understand the report and not embellish. :cool:

Gator

The Clockwork Orange Effect. hmmm Morgan and Mitnik so far seem to be the aboveboard (and learned) attorneys in this Orwellian nightmare!

BoB has been all the more important in that Cindy Anthony has not read and will not be reading the autopsy report and will not be qualified to speak of its contents having not done her homework.

[BeastofBears]

This report was made before the DP was put back on the table by a couple of weeks. Would the prosecution have gotten a verbal breakdown of what was going to be in the report?

[old_soul]

So do we wet the sponge on her head or not? I cant remember :D

Well.........First, we conveniently forget to wet the sponge.
We also conveniently add 2 minutes or so to the amount of time the handle stays down...or until the fricken power blows...

These findings are no surprise...it just fills in the gaps of what we already know. I also can't help wondering why the added piece of duct tape on her nostril area..could it be that she wasn't sure Caylee was dead from the chloroform, and this added a margin of safety for her...the duct tape would cut off her breathing ~ definately ~ so she knew it was a done deal?

No more stories of strange nannies putting Caylee where she was found...the Anthony's fought to have this info NOT out because it helps put the last few straps on the electric chair for their daughter. She is beyond help..can't they see how important it really is to preserve Caylee's memory? Their fight should be to help other mothers who have these thoughts, like Susan Smith, and little Emma's mom and others....before they do this horrible evil. Every untruth Cindy put out there has now been dispelled, she has nothing to lie about anymore.

Let us not forget the immortal words of Tupac as quoted by Casey Anthony....http://i41.tinypic.com/30xdis4.jpg

BRB.....

[JLette]

this report has just left me speechless, i have read it once already and am now re reading it to make sure i get it all, but i don't even know what to say at this point......just....wow

[BeastofBears]

Hey OS. I still think the chloroform was a cleaning accident. One strip of duct tape could cover both the mouth and nose of a toddler, especially an unconscious one. Several layers tells me her killer was very, very angry, and possibly, Caylee was struggling and making it hard.

imo.

[old_soul]

Thanks, BOB for 'splaining it...well said and well done! :)

[BeastofBears]

Thanks, BOB for 'splaining it...well said and well done! :)

I could be wrong about the chloroform...I mean, they did find a lot of it. But I just can't get over the lazy factor, you know? So I might be biased on the chloroform issue...

[JLette]

hmm they used a sample of carpet from a car trunk where a 3 year old child was allowed to decompose wrapped in a blanket for 3 months and found no chloroform? did i read that right?

[BeastofBears]

hmm they used a sample of carpet from a car trunk where a 3 year old child was allowed to decompose wrapped in a blanket for 3 months and found no chloroform? did i read that right?

Right. One major difference is that this child was in the trunk of his mother's car for 3 full months, so it won't directly correlate. :rose: for little James ManyWhiteHorses...

[Gatordog]

Here are the photos from the Memorial service. I am sorry for not having them sooner but my world went crazy for a few days starting when I got home.


Gator


http://i43.tinypic.com/2hh1tg8.jpg


http://i39.tinypic.com/2cerxir.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/2h3q1pt.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/1zm2eip.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/126bllw.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/2rg2upy.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/v49cnn.jpg

[JLette]

Right. One major difference is that this child was in the trunk of his mother's car for 3 full months, so it won't directly correlate. :rose: for little James ManyWhiteHorses...

and also he was in his mothers trunk in montana yes? different weather conditions there even in the same seasons

[BeastofBears]

Here are the photos from the Memorial service. I am sorry for not having them sooner but my world went crazy for a few days starting when I got home.


Gator


http://i43.tinypic.com/2hh1tg8.jpg


http://i39.tinypic.com/2cerxir.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/2h3q1pt.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/1zm2eip.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/126bllw.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/2rg2upy.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/v49cnn.jpg

Thanks, Gator!

Wow, those clouds were really dramatic!

[BeastofBears]

and also he was in his mothers trunk in montana yes? different weather conditions there even in the same seasons

Yeah, another good point. I guess we can be glad there is a limited sample for children who were allowed to decompose in a car trunk, huh?

[JLette]

Yeah, another good point. I guess we can be glad there is a limited sample for children who were allowed to decompose in a car trunk, huh?

yea really.........the farther this goes the worse it gets

[lorettalockhorn]

Hey OS. I still think the chloroform was a cleaning accident. One strip of duct tape could cover both the mouth and nose of a toddler, especially an unconscious one. Several layers tells me her killer was very, very angry, and possibly, Caylee was struggling and making it hard.

imo.

We know within reason that Casey didn't clean out that car trunk. So I feel that the chloroform that was detected was either the result of decomposition, or whatever G&C used to clean the car.

Depending on how long Caylee was in the trunk before being dumped like garbage (where the heck is Nancy Grace this week?), in my mind, the duct tape would have been placed very near the time of death else the mandible would not have been attached to the skull at discovery. If placed after death, there would be no need to use so damned much (in order to create the ruse of Caylee being held hostage by Zanny, for instance).

[old_soul]

I could be wrong about the chloroform...I mean, they did find a lot of it. But I just can't get over the lazy factor, you know? So I might be biased on the chloroform issue...

My initial thinking was that she used the chloroform to knock Caylee out while she, Casey, played. She put her in the trunk, which can be done without killing someone for an indefinate period, because where else was she going to put her?

Coming back, she found Caylee limp and unconscious, actually from the chloroform. Thus the duct tape, because she figured at that point if she was like that, she most likely had brain damage. She had to make sure she was really dead ~ smother her with the duct tape. I am trying to think like perhaps Casey did... She panicked even more so at that point, because what could she do with Caylee? She couldn't just dispose of her..anywhere. We know human decomp was found by the cadaver dogs in various spots. She moved Caylee around. The area Caylee was found in was chosen because Casey had run out of time..by then, Caylee had been in the trunk way too long..her decomp remains in the car prove it.

More than one piece of duct tape? Think of ripping it hastily, then finding the first piece too short..then ripping even another piece,,,she was either in a frenzy or hysterically freaking out.

Way too much chloroform in that trunk BOB...

Hmmmm. Will we ever know?


http://i40.tinypic.com/29getdx.jpg

[lorettalockhorn]

Gator, thanks so much for the great pix. Hope things are going better for you.

[old_soul]

I've thought of it often...WTH use the duct tape? WTH use the duct tape? Sedate her first, the easy way, and then the duct tape to finish her? (good God) :(

[BeastofBears]

We know within reason that Casey didn't clean out that car trunk. So I feel that the chloroform that was detected was either the result of decomposition, or whatever G&C used to clean the car.

Depending on how long Caylee was in the trunk before being dumped like garbage (where the heck is Nancy Grace this week?), in my mind, the duct tape would have been placed very near the time of death else the mandible would not have been attached to the skull at discovery. If placed after death, there would be no need to use so damned much (in order to create the ruse of Caylee being held hostage by Zanny, for instance).

Yeah, what a week for a vacation. She's probably sitting in a hotel room in Hawaii right now screaming at her show stand-ins about asking the wrong questions.

And imo, the duct tape is even more damning than I imagined. In my opinion, it is the actual cause of death. Worse than I thought...

[lorettalockhorn]

I could be wrong about the chloroform...I mean, they did find a lot of it. But I just can't get over the lazy factor, you know? So I might be biased on the chloroform issue...

One thing that was stressed by the ME on NG or a TH on Prime News was that just because there were no drugs or chloroform found in the toxicology doesn't mean that they weren't present at death. So this becomes another area for the jury to speculate about. No harm, no foul.

[old_soul]

Here are the photos from the Memorial service. I am sorry for not having them sooner but my world went crazy for a few days starting when I got home.


Gator


http://i43.tinypic.com/2hh1tg8.jpg


http://i39.tinypic.com/2cerxir.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/2h3q1pt.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/1zm2eip.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/126bllw.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/2rg2upy.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/v49cnn.jpg

Thanks my dear for the great pics...the Heavens really did open up and cry for Caylee, didn't they?

Not during the memorial,, but when it was done...how appropriate, huh?

<<huggs, Gator>>>

[JLette]

Yeah, what a week for a vacation. She's probably sitting in a hotel room in Hawaii right now screaming at her show stand-ins about asking the wrong questions.

And imo, the duct tape is even more damning than I imagined. In my opinion, it is the actual cause of death. Worse than I thought...

i don't know if i missed it in there, and if i did im sure i will find it but was the duct tape wrapped around her head or were several pieces applied in layers?

[SuzDuJour]

I've thought of it often...WTH use the duct tape? WTH use the duct tape? Sedate her first, the easy way, and then the duct tape to finish her? (good God) :(

I only hope she WAS sedated first...otherwise it's too horrible to think about.

I had thought the report was going to be 30 pages - did I mis-hear and it is 13?

[BeastofBears]

I've thought of it often...WTH use the duct tape? WTH use the duct tape? Sedate her first, the easy way, and then the duct tape to finish her? (good God) :(

I hope she was sedated, OS, I really do.

One good thing: there is no evidence of child abuse or even injury. Her growth was normal, no signs of arrested growth, no healed fractures, no unhealed fractures, no spiral fractures, no nothing is noted in the report that I have seen. Caylee was well cared for physically, until she was removed from the people who were taking care of her, imo.

[BeastofBears]

i don't know if i missed it in there, and if i did im sure i will find it but was the duct tape wrapped around her head or were several pieces applied in layers?

Several pieces were applied in layers, and they covered both the mouth area and the nasal apperture (where the nostrils would be). It reached into her hair, which seems to have been held in a pony tail ("tied at the proximal end"). Her hair had shed, though, and was in a mat on the back of her head.

[BeastofBears]

I only hope she WAS sedated first...otherwise it's too horrible to think about.

I had thought the report was going to be 30 pages - did I mis-hear and it is 13?

I don't think all news outlets have all of it up. http://www.orlandosentinel.com/ has the most, I think...

[old_soul]

One thing that was stressed by the ME on NG or a TH on Prime News was that just because there were no drugs or chloroform found in the toxicology doesn't mean that they weren't present at death. So this becomes another area for the jury to speculate about. No harm, no foul.

Yes my Gumby woman, I heard that too. Of course that makes sense, since there was nothing to test. Leaves a lot open for speculation and more for the jury to fit (those) puzzle pieces together.... nicely...;)

What about the hyoid bone also? I understand in a small child it is rather like cartiliage (sic?), so there would be a question on that also as far as her trying strangulation. Someone remind me....was it not found, the hyoid bone?

Another thought I've had is Casey's apparent obsession with bones and skulls and death...Hmm, suppose it was her guilty subconscious making her obsessive about such things and giving her the cold sweats and nightmares like her flavor of the day said? What will the jurors think about those pics on her PC?!

No more half truths, mis truths or whatever the he** you call it Cindy!http://i39.tinypic.com/iyq7fq.jpg


Loretta darlin, please post your infamous Casey with her azz on the thing pic...:D...It will make us smiiiillllllllleeeeeeeee :beer:

[old_soul]

I only hope she WAS sedated first...otherwise it's too horrible to think about.

I had thought the report was going to be 30 pages - did I mis-hear and it is 13?

Nope, you didn't miss hear...

It's only so short because all they had were the damn bones. :flamemad:...No tissue, no organs, no blood workup.. otherwise they said it would have been the usual large amount of pages...

Thanks to scumbag Cain for that! :cuss::flamemad:

[JLette]

Yes my Gumby woman, I heard that too. Of course that makes sense, since there was nothing to test. Leaves a lot open for speculation and more for the jury to fit (those) puzzle pieces together.... nicely...;)

What about the hyoid bone also? I understand in a small child it is rather like cartiliage (sic?), so there would be a question on that also as far as her trying strangulation. Someone remind me....was it not found, the hyoid bone?

Another thought I've had is Casey's apparent obsession with bones and skulls and death...Hmm, suppose it was her guilty subconscious making her obsessive about such things and giving her the cold sweats and nightmares like her flavor of the day said? What will the jurors think about those pics on her PC?!

No more half truths, mis truths or whatever the he** you call it Cindy!http://i39.tinypic.com/iyq7fq.jpg


Loretta darlin, please post your infamous Casey with her azz on the thing pic...:D...It will make us smiiiillllllllleeeeeeeee :beer:




im wondering if maybe the preoccupation with skulls and skeletons means that casey returned to the scene to "check up" on Caylee. as stated in the autopsy in the summer weather of that area it could only take as little as two weeks for a human body to completely skeletonize, and we know that Caylee was gone for a whole month before anyone else found out, so perhaps casey knew what was happening to her baby's body out there and thats where all this death obsession was coming from, she had bones on the brain

[BeastofBears]

OS, per this report, the hyoid was NOT found. I had thought it was found intact, too, but :shrug: that's rumor for you.

[old_soul]

I hope she was sedated, OS, I really do.

One good thing: there is no evidence of child abuse or even injury. Her growth was normal, no signs of arrested growth, no healed fractures, no unhealed fractures, no spiral fractures, no nothing is noted in the report that I have seen. Caylee was well cared for physically, until she was removed from the people who were taking care of her, imo.

Out of all the things I keep in mind, it's that Cindy and George made her short life very happy. Her toys, her playhouse, her barettes, her shoes, her clothes, her books, her dresses, her sunglasses..EVERYTHING they did was to make Caylee happy and healthy ( yes, well fed and nourished). The wondering about her being sedated like that (for me) is a real possibility, because I think Casey is a fricken wimpy biotch who couldn't face up to life, never mind killing her daughter like a cold blooded murderer. I just can't give her 'credit' for having the u know what and doing it that way...I think she took the easy way out and sedated Caylee first, so.... :(

If only they stepped past that and added friends and a life outside the Anthony domain ...perhaps then someone close would have known earlier that Caylee hadn't been seen for so long, and Casey would have been caught in her lies sooner.

I have a question....
I noticed the autopsy mentioned a small amount of adipocere (sic?) on one of the bones....

Essentially, isn't the 'residue' itself partly comprised of decomposed tissue? I wonder , can it be 'separated' and tested?

[lorettalockhorn]

Yes my Gumby woman, I heard that too. Of course that makes sense, since there was nothing to test. Leaves a lot open for speculation and more for the jury to fit (those) puzzle pieces together.... nicely...;)

What about the hyoid bone also? I understand in a small child it is rather like cartiliage (sic?), so there would be a question on that also as far as her trying strangulation. Someone remind me....was it not found, the hyoid bone?

Another thought I've had is Casey's apparent obsession with bones and skulls and death...Hmm, suppose it was her guilty subconscious making her obsessive about such things and giving her the cold sweats and nightmares like her flavor of the day said? What will the jurors think about those pics on her PC?!

No more half truths, mis truths or whatever the he** you call it Cindy!http://i39.tinypic.com/iyq7fq.jpg


Loretta darlin, please post your infamous Casey with her azz on the thing pic...:D...It will make us smiiiillllllllleeeeeeeee :beer:

BWAHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHA@The Grinch!



Here Casey is in all her glory. Even in death she can't manage to put her knees together:

http://i40.tinypic.com/5pq77r.jpg

Gee Cindy and the Grinch. So hard to tell the diff!

http://i44.tinypic.com/2chmlbn.jpg = http://i42.tinypic.com/2w59edz.jpg

[beemer]

Good to see the Liar in her stripes again-thanks always makes my day :hat:

[wind149]

HERE YE HEAR YE! Judge Strickland does not bow to the Queen and I am betting she is livid and tough sh*t because I think he is butt tired of these people and their grandstanding and boy, no wonder they did not want that report released to the public!! Because the DUCT TAPE is the smoking gun, Now we have proof positive that Caylee did not drown in the pool or died of natural causes, nor did she tightly wrap duct tape around her mouth, go into those deep woods and place herself in three bags and lays down and dies??? And what is a smoking gun as well, is with the remains, weeds and other vegetation had grown around and through the bones which any forensic person is going to tell you, that those bones had been there for months and months and the theory that someone is framing CA and the crap story that those woods were searched by that PI and he found nothing is a huge steaming pile!!! That just blew right up in the A's face!! Also letters were found consistent to a pink shirt Caylee was last seen in and let's not forget the sticker and similar ones were found during a search of their house. And what else just blew up? The Zany the Nanny scam exploded today!!

If there was ever such a person and wanted to kill Caylee, there would have been dozens of ways she could have gotten rid of the child, not go through the extreme Casey did!! Good Lord she could have driven to VT and thrown the body over a cliff where it never ever would be found??? And what has always mystified me is how come these dolts and all her friends never met this here nanny including her BFF?? Now most normal people know right to the second who is their children's lives and grandchildren's lives and yet, they never met her and she allegedy was the nanny for over a year???? Yes, kids, this is why the A's did not want this made public and it is a coup for the prosecutor, because contrary to popular belief, they do want to hear the public court of opinion, they can seat a jury or even fact finding can come into play. And a talking head nailed it on NG tonight. She said things I have been saying right along about all these asswipes. First they tried very hard to get out of Zenaida's depo, claiming they were "too distraught" and when that backfired and they were told they had to testify, they acted like complete assholes and even insulting poor Zenaida by saying she wasn't the "10" that Casey claimed the nanny was??? And today, it was the same whine, it would be "too painful"? But, sheeit, they have begged networks to have them on all their shows, LK, and tried to go on Oprah, but she saw through them and declined real fast and that compassionate victims organization in Ct followed suit, than sham of a memorial service whereas that b*tch made sure there where 102 godamm cameras to catch all her grandstanding and the public as a whole is butt tired of these people capitalizing on their supposed, beloved grandchild and all they have done is sell her down the river for 40 pieces of silver! And they had the balls to have all questions posed by the anchors PRE-APPROVED by the Queen or their lawyer and got pissy with anyone who dared to cross her line??

All this has not been lost on Judge Strickland or potential jurists, everyone who has a TV has seen over this past year has seen how these losers act, lie, manipulate and use their dead grandchild as an excuse to roam the country trying to run their spins, and I have to give Ron some credit for not wanting the A's to be any part of the search for Haleigh, these cases are not similar and they don't give a sheep's ass about that child, it is all a scam and a photo op for the Queen and I can't believe that they ran that crap spin that THEY TOLD the MEDIA to focus on Haleigh??? Well I told you all, I got up and heard about it on HLN not from her mouth!! They only claim to be "too distraught or it is too painful" when they don't want to do something, but if some network like the Early Show calls, they are on the next plane out of Orlando!! It is all about manipulation with these losers and they acted like total assholes during the Zenaida depos and all this poor woman wants is her name cleared and it was their daughter who tells them that a Zenaida took Caylee and this woman had never laid eyes on CA or Caylee and they drag this poor soul through the mud, she was called names on the street, she lost her job, her housing and had no way to support her 6 children and she ended up in a homeless shelter and the only thing this lady did was fill out an app for an apt at SawGrass and I am still mystified how Casey ever got this woman's info?? And what kind of car she drove?

I have filled out apps before and all info is usually locked in a file cabinet not laying around for other eyes to see with identity theft running rampant? And these losers could not even keep a civil tongue and tried to make a mockery of the whole thing, Lee yucking it up, laughing at questions that were far from amusing, and Cindy grandstanding away and George's acting like it was all a total bore till the lawyer said remains and he blew up at the guy and all this poor woman wanted is to hear out of their mouths that they made a mistake??? And maybe an apology? Did she get it?? But one thing was proven, That this whole family would not know truth if it reared up and bit them in the ass and my sister thinks that at least Cindy knew from day one that Caylee was dead and she thinks that maybe she helped Casey? To be honest, kids, do you all think we will ever hear the real truth?

Now the trial is going to be a totally new approach for them. The depos were a civil issue and this trial is a capital criminal trial and they will be sworn in and told they have to tell the whole truth and nothing but and I doubt they will pull it off because lies and manipulations have been taught by Cindy and I can't wait to see how their behavior will be as the questions put forth by the DA, they will not like or for sure want to answer and here is a couple of examples. If the nanny had babysit for over a year, how come you never met her?? How come you did not know your daughter had not worked at Universal since 2006? How come you waited over a month before you asked Casey where Caylee was??? Did you George smell decomp when you opened the trunk of the car? How come you did not call the police then seeing as you used to be one?? How is it you are so sure that the nanny took Caylee??? These examples they are gonna hate to answer and I can't wait to watch Cindy squirm and I do predict she will act like an asswipe, she can't help herself.

But even on the stand, all eyes will be on on her, and cameras galore, every person that has a TV with cable will be watching this on TRU?? I don't know how George is gonna act, it can go either way and forensic and other experts will give their findings and professional accounts and it will be graphic. I remember listening to an expert during that scumbag Couey's trial and it was gruesome, he was describing Jessica's body and the evidence of the rapes she suffered and another described how long it must have took for her to suffocate to death and the cameras panned over to Mark and his folks and the pain and anguish on their faces made me totally break down, my neighbor came over and found me sobbing and asked what was wrong and I told her and she told me maybe I shouldn't watch the trial and I told her I had to because I wanted justice for Jessie and her family.

I want justice for this little angel and by God she will get it and that b*tch of a mother will be sitting on DR and her mother and father will be outcasts among their neighbors, friends and family if they aren't already. SO today is a step towards sending CA to hell where she belongs and I am absolutely thrilled that for once these losers did not get their own way.

[BeastofBears]

Out of all the things I keep in mind, it's that Cindy and George made her short life very happy. Her toys, her playhouse, her barettes, her shoes, her clothes, her books, her dresses, her sunglasses..EVERYTHING they did was to make Caylee happy and healthy ( yes, well fed and nourished). The wondering about her being sedated like that (for me) is a real possibility, because I think Casey is a fricken wimpy biotch who couldn't face up to life, never mind killing her daughter like a cold blooded murderer. I just can't give her 'credit' for having the u know what and doing it that way...I think she took the easy way out and sedated Caylee first, so.... :(

If only they stepped past that and added friends and a life outside the Anthony domain ...perhaps then someone close would have known earlier that Caylee hadn't been seen for so long, and Casey would have been caught in her lies sooner.

I have a question....
I noticed the autopsy mentioned a small amount of adipocere (sic?) on one of the bones....

Essentially, isn't the 'residue' itself partly comprised of decomposed tissue? I wonder , can it be 'separated' and tested?

This is out of my range, but I think that it is so altered by the point it becomes this waxy substance its not real useful. Could be wrong, though,

[old_soul]

HAHAHAHA ! Good ones Gumby woman...here, Loretta you will love this one!! Check this out you guys! You will pee your pants! ROTFLMAOPMP!!

Cindy Anthony is the Grinch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUkBK9HO6b8



~~~~~

H E L L O ! http://i41.tinypic.com/2hz0sif.jpg

Thanks for my fav pic LL! :beer:

[old_soul]

Good to see the Liar in her stripes again-thanks always makes my day :hat:

beem loves those stripes! Me too! Reality check ! http://i41.tinypic.com/24opv6r.jpg

[Native Alien]

I still want to see the reports on what was in the syringe that was in the bottle that they found in the backpack.

The CindyGrinch was funny and Morgan's motion was even funnier. I needed that laugh.

[Justice Denied?]

Okay, after reading this, imo, they have the time of exposure well covered. 1) the bones were moved by animals, but some are in alluvial mud, showing summer storms rained on them. 2) roots are growing into the vertebral bodies-that takes time and the growing season 3) the bones are so dry they aren't even greasy, again, lots of time in the elements 4) and they did stratigraphy on the leaf layer: she was there before the leaves fell.

This reads like an archaeological excavation report. imo, they did a great job.

On the other hand, this was really sad. It's bad enough reading these reports with kids thousands of years old, but this? Not fair. Of course, it wasn't fair that a child died 3,000 years ago, either.

Reading about how she was torn apart by animals is bad. You can't write stuff like that dry enough. :( (I hope my notes were helpful to anyone who doesn't know osteology)

I really appreciate your breaking this down where all of us can understand it. It really helps.

I also hope that while G & C are reading this autopsy and see the horrible condition this body was in and what happened to it, they stop and realize that their beloved Casey that they are so busy lying for is thew one responsible for their anguish. She knew all the time where that body was. Wake up, people!

[Nawny]

Yeah to Judge Strickland. He ruled against the Anthonys. The autopsy results get released today. I am not happy about the autopsy, but I am happy that the Anthonys were shot down. They are not the Ringmasters of this Circus without a Tent! I am sick and tired of what they want. They don't rule the world. As horrible as things may be, there is trial procedures which must be followed and all their antics can't change that.

Gator


I got in late and found out about the ruling late. I was glad too Gator. I got a short glimpse of George belaboring his grief on national TV. Nice that they are finally getting emotional for about 3 minutes at such an opportune time. They claim to be concerned about a tainted jury.. if anything has tainted a jury it would be those 2 drama contractors. Sickening.

[old_soul]

I still want to see the reports on what was in the syringe that was in the bottle that they found in the backpack.

The CindyGrinch was funny and Morgan's motion was even funnier. I needed that laugh.

Hey NA, no mention of that so I'm thinking it had nothing to do with nothing..except some druggie who was hanging out there and had the consideration to put the fricken syringe where someone couldn't step on it...........hahahahahahahah yea, sure!:rolleyes:

[BeastofBears]

I really appreciate your breaking this down where all of us can understand it. It really helps.

I also hope that while G & C are reading this autopsy and see the horrible condition this body was in and what happened to it, they stop and realize that their beloved Casey that they are so busy lying for is thew one responsible for their anguish. She knew all the time where that body was. Wake up, people!

I feel very sorry for them reading this. It hurt to read it, and I don't even know her. But they need to know, imo.

[Nawny]

Just my opine on the accidental thing. It just does not fly with me. Remember the computer searches prior to her death. I just dont buy Caylee was unlucky enough to have a sociopathic mother who was unlucky enough to have accidently killed her. MOO

Agree! Tonight Jean C said this is a premeditated "Death Penalty murder case." LE isn't fooling around here. After the autopsy info came out, I knew they had more than circumstantial evidence. I think we all knew they had some hard stuff against that POC. George can cry all he wants to in court to get his way.. that's what he taught his daughter to do. He can cry for what Caylee had to endure, and well he should.

[old_soul]

(BoB) ~Thank you for the link to the Sentinel's report on the autopsy..I hadn't read it earlier...(I saw WESH's).

Geez.....Here's Hal's take on it with reporting from Kathi B and Bill Schaefer's comments..Autopsy suggests Caylee Suffered Tremendously...http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2009/06/caylee-anthony-autopsy-suggests-she-suffered-tremendously.html


I'm sorry Caylee. :rose:
:(

[Nawny]

Okay, after reading this, imo, they have the time of exposure well covered. 1) the bones were moved by animals, but some are in alluvial mud, showing summer storms rained on them. 2) roots are growing into the vertebral bodies-that takes time and the growing season 3) the bones are so dry they aren't even greasy, again, lots of time in the elements 4) and they did stratigraphy on the leaf layer: she was there before the leaves fell.

This reads like an archaeological excavation report. imo, they did a great job.

On the other hand, this was really sad. It's bad enough reading these reports with kids thousands of years old, but this? Not fair. Of course, it wasn't fair that a child died 3,000 years ago, either.

Reading about how she was torn apart by animals is bad. You can't write stuff like that dry enough. :( (I hope my notes were helpful to anyone who doesn't know osteology)

Thank you BoB. It speaks volumes to the time line.

[Nawny]

i don't know if i missed it in there, and if i did im sure i will find it but was the duct tape wrapped around her head or were several pieces applied in layers?

I was just thinking the same thing. If she wasn't deadprior o wrapping the duct tape, how could she wrap it around her entire head knowing she'd have to cut her hair off to get the tape off? I think she wrapped her head in it to shut her up and didn't give a damn if she died in the meantime. She was high on something, had to be. She was quite done with little miss Caylee. Probably wanted to do that to Cindy IMO.

[Nawny]

Here are the photos from the Memorial service. I am sorry for not having them sooner but my world went crazy for a few days starting when I got home.


Gator


http://i43.tinypic.com/2hh1tg8.jpg


http://i39.tinypic.com/2cerxir.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/2h3q1pt.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/1zm2eip.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/126bllw.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/2rg2upy.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/v49cnn.jpg

Those shots are sooo Florida!! It doesn't look anything like that here. You remember huh, Ms NYC!?

Thanks Gator... the sky was full of tears.

[Nawny]

This is a great lesson to the family..they are now learning the law/justice system does not think their croc tears or talk is going to be first and foremost over the evidence. They chose to live in the Sunshine State and (supposedly) abide by the Sunshine Laws..perhaps they should have groomed their daughter to understand what that means...cough, cough.

I have lost the sound on my puter... checked all the wires to my speakers, all Aok..suddenly now, the sound icon disappeared too! WTH?! I couldn't hear todays hearing...thanks for the info, all! I need my audio for my music ! Any ideas? Any puter geeks here? :mad:




GO to "System Restore" and restore your computer to an earlier time.

Programs
Accessories
Tools
see system restore in the list- click it.
It walks you through
:seeya:

[BeastofBears]

I was just thinking the same thing. If she wasn't deadprior o wrapping the duct tape, how could she wrap it around her entire head knowing she'd have to cut her hair off to get the tape off? I think she wrapped her head in it to shut her up and didn't give a damn if she died in the meantime. She was high on something, had to be. She was quite done with little miss Caylee. Probably wanted to do that to Cindy IMO.

It was over both the mouth and nose, so if she was alive when it was put on, she wasn't 5 minutes after. I don't think there was any concern about removing the tape from the hair ever again...:(

[Nawny]

HAHAHAHA ! Good ones Gumby woman...here, Loretta you will love this one!! Check this out you guys! You will pee your pants! ROTFLMAOPMP!!

Cindy Anthony is the Grinch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUkBK9HO6b8



~~~~~


H E L L O ! http://i41.tinypic.com/2hz0sif.jpg

Thanks for my fav pic LL! :beer:

That is a amazing! Every time I've watched it I can't believe it but there it is. :beer:

[Nawny]

It was over both the mouth and nose, so if she was alive when it was put on, she wasn't 5 minutes after. I don't think there was any concern about removing the tape from the hair ever again...:(

Yes, true. But I have a little concern over the fact that the flesh was gone, the bones were pretty much dry (?) and can't understand really, how the tape would remain in place over the nose and mouth.. how tight could that tape have been? If it was that tight, the child would have been purple in seconds.

I'm thinking the tape for example could have initially been over her eyes, around her neck?

[Nawny]

Thanks to everyone for links today!

(Someone needs to remind Cindy that on her way out the door, she should remove at least one item of jewelry.)

Heh.. she looks like Mrs T. I love jewlery too but I don't wear all of it at once. Less is best. :beer:

[BeastofBears]

Yes, true. But I have a little concern over the fact that the flesh was gone, the bones were pretty much dry (?) and can't understand really, how the tape would remain in place over the nose and mouth.. how tight could that tape have been? If it was that tight, the child would have been purple in seconds.

I'm thinking the tape for example could have initially been over her eyes, around her neck?

From what I understood, the hair was in a ponytail behind her head. The tape seems to have been pieces, in multiple layers, across the nose and mouth. It didn't wrap all the way around the head, but was caught in the hair at the back. When the hair sloughed off the skull, it became a mat under the skull, and the tape was still stuck to it, so that kept the "circle" complete...

To put my interpretation on it, I think it was tightly molded to the chin, mouth, and nose area, so it didn't do any shifting. If the tape had been over other parts of the face and it was not tight, the lower jaw would not have been held in place-it comes loose real easy. If it was across the eyes, it would still be up there, and the neck was totally disarticulated, I think at the atlas vertebra, so no tape would be there. Besides, the neck is too small for it to work its way up. I imagine: One strip over the mouth, one under the mouth to keep it in place, and then across the nose. I'm pretty sure about this in my own head, but it's just opinion...

[mu8shark]

Wow so much to digest. I saw an earlier post on this board or the other one I read where it was theorized that because no chloroform was found in her system that there was no chloroform used in the killing and therefore what was found in the trunk was from decomp or from cleaning products. I think much too much is being made of that. First of all, if it was the only time she had used it on her, it would not be in the hair, secondly it would certainly not be expected to be in the bone marrow they tested. I think it is still highly possible it was used in the murder itself. Another thing about it being from cleaning products, Jeff Flowers the renowed chemist has said that the amount found in the trunk could not be from cleaning products , it had to be from a more pure source of chloroform. In fact he used the word it was impossible. Also if they did a test on another trunk from the other child and there were no fragments of chloroform at all, it is probably not from decomp, I mean how likely is it that she looked up chloroform among other ways to kill, like neck breaking and the amount in the trunk is totally unrelated to the murder. Here is what I think happened,. I think Casey is lazy and she is cowardly. I do not think she wanted to hold that child and have to put up with or face a struggle with her in order to suffocate her. Suffocation on a child is obviously easier than doing it to an adult, but there would be a struggle. Casey I think knew chloroform would not knock you out indefinitely so she chloroformed her and then did that elaborate taping knowing it would suffocate while she was unconscious. Let's face Casey likes no muss, no fuss stuff and would not want to face her. This way it might seem to her like a nice peaceful death with no struggle. I am not saying it was a nice fairytale dying in the sleep moment, but Casey may have used the chloroform to knock her out initially. I mean if she had to put that tape on her when she was awake she would struggle , cry or scream or be looking at her. Knock her out and none of this happens., Anyone else think this is viable. ?

[BeastofBears]

Sounds very plausible to me. I just have a problem picturing Casey doing an impression of Sid the Science Kid, kwim? But if it was one time thing, that makes sense...I hope it is true.

I don't think there will be any more definitive information, it's hard to picture anything that will fully answer the question short of a confession...and I'm not sure I would believe one.

moo, imo.

[mu8shark]

Also my ears perked up when on NG they said she was wearing the same shirt that George said she was wearing when he last saw her. The pink one with glittery writing. What to make of this. I for the longest time thought he was telling the truth about when he saw her as I am not a believer that there was a fight necessarily as only Casey is the source for this. No neighbors interview puts a fight on that exact date at all, the newspapers and Leonard got that wrong. So for Lee and Jesse to say Casey reported one, smacks of Casey giving herself a good reason to disappear , "Oh my Mother tried to choke me , of course I ran off and kept my baby from her." So I do not buy into this fight, Not saying it did not happen but I do not accept it as the gospel truth. Here is the rub, all of a sudden George is adding weird little details , the breakfast and did he say he put Caylee in the car? I thought he was sitting on the couch,. Now that smacks of embellishment as in I can't get my story straight because it is a lie. But he did put her in the right shirt! So what to believe. Did George really see them off? It does say to me that Caylee was killed that day. She did go out the door with Mommy in that shirt!

[BeastofBears]

'night, all! :punch:

[One2Snoop]

'night, all! :punch:

'night BoB - thanks for all your help today!!! :seeya:

[mu8shark]

Sounds very plausible to me. I just have a problem picturing Casey doing an impression of Sid the Science Kid, kwim? But if it was one time thing, that makes sense...I hope it is true.

I don't think there will be any more definitive information, it's hard to picture anything that will fully answer the question short of a confession...and I'm not sure I would believe one.

moo, imo. Well if Casey were to confess it still would not be the truth. I bet she would make it some kind of accident theory and she would try to work the tape in somehow. As for her knowledge of science, if you went and looked up the side effects that would not take a genius for her to figure out it would knock you out for a bit. I know that the Dr who did the autopsy said in a quote she did not have a definitive cause of death but a strong opinion about what happened and when I saw the tape was over the mandible and the other bone which would cover the nose, it hit me , you know she thinks she was suffocated. It could be no other strong opinion that makes sense to me. . Gun, knife, even strangulation is out. Drowning impossible to prove but suffocation makes sense with where that tape was.

[mu8shark]

My initial thinking was that she used the chloroform to knock Caylee out while she, Casey, played. She put her in the trunk, which can be done without killing someone for an indefinate period, because where else was she going to put her?

Coming back, she found Caylee limp and unconscious, actually from the chloroform. Thus the duct tape, because she figured at that point if she was like that, she most likely had brain damage. She had to make sure she was really dead ~ smother her with the duct tape. I am trying to think like perhaps Casey did... She panicked even more so at that point, because what could she do with Caylee? She couldn't just dispose of her..anywhere. We know human decomp was found by the cadaver dogs in various spots. She moved Caylee around. The area Caylee was found in was chosen because Casey had run out of time..by then, Caylee had been in the trunk way too long..her decomp remains in the car prove it.

More than one piece of duct tape? Think of ripping it hastily, then finding the first piece too short..then ripping even another piece,,,she was either in a frenzy or hysterically freaking out.

Way too much chloroform in that trunk BOB...

Hmmmm. Will we ever know?


http://i40.tinypic.com/29getdx.jpgAbsolutely see this quote from the chemist. He states it was too much to be from a cleaning pruduct or decomp. Also it was vaporized. ORLANDO, Fla. -- Two sources close to the Casey Anthony investigation said a chemical possibly found in her car tested positive for an airborne, vaporized form of chloroform.


Sources first told WESH 2 that the level of chloroform that authorities said they found in Casey Anthony car was "suspiciously high." They also told WESH 2 that her computer confiscated within hours of her July arrest, show visits to Web sites with information on chloroform.

Chemist Jeff Flowers, who has testified in state and federal court as an expert, said positive tests for vaporized chloroform mean those results could not have come from anything else -- not cleaning products, not human body fluids or a mixture of anything else.

[mu8shark]

OS, per this report, the hyoid was NOT found. I had thought it was found intact, too, but :shrug: that's rumor for you.Casey is too lazy for strangulation. In the movies it happens in 10 seconds in reality it is an effort even with a child, way too much effort for the girl who won't work.

[mu8shark]

[QUOTE=Nawny;9198802]I got in late and found out about the ruling late. I was glad too Gator. I got a short glimpse of George belaboring his grief on national TV. Nice that they are finally getting emotional for about 3 minutes at such an opportune time. They claim to be concerned about a tainted jury.. if anything has tainted a jury it would be those 2 drama contractors. Sickening.[/QUOTE Listen I felt for George and I think his emotion is genuine. But that autopsy for Cindy and not releasing it is still about control for her. She wants to go on more shows and spout Nanny gate and how good Casey was and this autopsy result esp that the child was found in the clothes Casey took her out the door in or the shirt at least makes it much harder.And her daughter did all that horrendous taping you can bet on it. She is just pathetic. I know it sounds mean but I have so much trouble feeling sympathetic towards her.

[mu8shark]

BoB, I'm resolved to never seeing it, and that's okay. It's inflammatory according to Strickland, which means that it either clearly shows consciousness of guilt or isn't probative, or His Honor simply doesn't want to risk the case at appeal. I don't fault LE for recording the incident because the investigation doesn't simply stop once an arrest is made.

But prisoners need to realize that the is never a presumption of privacy in jail (with the exception of attorney/client privilege or doctor/patient privilege). I think that he also said it would harden their hearts about her guilt though. So I have been saying all along that for Baez to fight like a tiger he is scared of that video. I am okay too not seeing it but I bet they use it at trial. I do not see how they can keep it out. Strickland seems to be worried about it inflamming a potential jury pool but katie bar the door he may not be so worried about it coming in a trial time. I think Baez hates something about it.

[Native Alien]

I think that he also said it would harden their hearts about her guilt though. So I have been saying all along that for Baez to fight like a tiger he is scared of that video. I am okay too not seeing it but I bet they use it at trial. I do not see how they can keep it out. Strickland seems to be worried about it inflamming a potential jury pool but katie bar the door he may not be so worried about it coming in a trial time. I think Baez hates something about it.

I believe that the whole reason that Baez doesn't want that tape out has nothing to do with the jury pool. I think with that tape on top of the autopsy report as it is will be enough to get Casey the DP and he knows it.

That is what he is afraid of.

[BeastofBears]

You know, I just woke up realizing there is something to be grateful for. I was surprised that the skull stayed in the bag, especially since the torso had been pulled out and everything was so disturbed. If the skull had not stayed with the bag, I don't think she would ever have been found. It was the skull that Kronk saw. And if the skull had been badly disturbed, like virtually everything else, the duct tape would not have been in place anymore. Somehow, those bags wrapped around that skull to "protect" it.

That's a very good thing.

[BeastofBears]

I believe that the whole reason that Baez doesn't want that tape out has nothing to do with the jury pool. I think with that tape on top of the autopsy report as it is will be enough to get Casey the DP and he knows it.

That is what he is afraid of.

I am picturing a prosecution demonstration in the closing arguments. Picture this: a child mannequin on the table. A roll of duct tape in the prosecutors hand. He/she rips off strip after strip, stretching it across the face of the mannequin, all the while describing the rage of the killer. Over and over, for however many strips there are. Dramatic.

I'd be scared, too, if I were Baez.

As for the tape, I think there must be more on it than just her hyperventilating. I wonder what she was gasping out as she was hyperventilating...

[lorettalockhorn]

HAHAHAHA ! Good ones Gumby woman...here, Loretta you will love this one!! Check this out you guys! You will pee your pants! ROTFLMAOPMP!!

Cindy Anthony is the Grinch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUkBK9HO6b8



~~~~~

H E L L O ! http://i41.tinypic.com/2hz0sif.jpg

Thanks for my fav pic LL! :beer:

The resemblance is uncanny!!

[lorettalockhorn]

This is out of my range, but I think that it is so altered by the point it becomes this waxy substance its not real useful. Could be wrong, though,

I think there was some information about adipocere used in testing in an episode of Forensic Files, but always forget the details and I've forgotten a LOT of my physical anthropology information. Anyway, found this which if I'm reading right, might indicate that if there is enough adipocere for sampling, the grave or burial site can be proven. In Caylee's case, the plant growth seems to indicate that she wasn't moved.

...Abstract
Adipocere is a decomposition product comprising predominantly of saturated fatty acids which results from the hydrolysis and hydrogenation of neutral fats in the body. Adipocere formation may occur in various decomposition environments but is chiefly dependent on the surrounding conditions. In a soil burial environment these conditions may include such factors as soil pH, temperature, moisture and the oxygen content within the grave site. This study was conducted to investigate the effect of these particular burial factors on the rate and extent of adipocere formation. Controlled laboratory experiments were conducted in an attempt to form adipocere from pig adipose tissue in model burial environments. Infrared spectroscopy, inductively coupled plasma–mass spectrometry, and gas chromatography–mass spectrometry were employed to determine the lipid profile and fatty acid composition of the adipocere product which formed in the burial environments. The results suggest that adipocere can form under a variety of burial conditions. Several burial factors were identified as enhancing adipocere formation whilst others clearly inhibited its formation. This study acts as a preliminary investigation into the effect of the burial environment on the resultant preservation of decomposing tissue via adipocere formation...

http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0379073804006334

[old_soul]

So...............

1. Casey put the duct tape on a live sedated Caylee to keep her quiet or

2. Casey put the duct tape on a live Caylee to smother her or

3. Casey initially put the duct tape on her mouth to stop her from crying out before she chloroformed her and then finished taping her nostrils or

4. Casey put the duct tape on a live sedated Caylee to insure death or

5. Casey put the duct tape on Caylee immediately after she passed...


:confused:
Confused? So am I........

[lorettalockhorn]

Also my ears perked up when on NG they said she was wearing the same shirt that George said she was wearing when he last saw her. The pink one with glittery writing. What to make of this. I for the longest time thought he was telling the truth about when he saw her as I am not a believer that there was a fight necessarily as only Casey is the source for this. No neighbors interview puts a fight on that exact date at all, the newspapers and Leonard got that wrong. So for Lee and Jesse to say Casey reported one, smacks of Casey giving herself a good reason to disappear , "Oh my Mother tried to choke me , of course I ran off and kept my baby from her." So I do not buy into this fight, Not saying it did not happen but I do not accept it as the gospel truth. Here is the rub, all of a sudden George is adding weird little details , the breakfast and did he say he put Caylee in the car? I thought he was sitting on the couch,. Now that smacks of embellishment as in I can't get my story straight because it is a lie. But he did put her in the right shirt! So what to believe. Did George really see them off? It does say to me that Caylee was killed that day. She did go out the door with Mommy in that shirt!

The problem that I have with George's scenario is that he said that Caylee was wearing a denim skirt, but the shorts found at The Zone were the striped ones from the 15th. Not sure what time George got home that night, but IF there was a fight (and there were probably fights all the time), maybe Caylee had had a spill and her shirt had been changed before Casey left with her, or maybe she was already in her jammies and Casey grabbed the striped shorts and put her in a clean shirt before she left. There's just no mistaking those shorts for a jean skirt. :shrug: Or was the skirt found too?

[lorettalockhorn]

I think that he also said it would harden their hearts about her guilt though. So I have been saying all along that for Baez to fight like a tiger he is scared of that video. I am okay too not seeing it but I bet they use it at trial. I do not see how they can keep it out. Strickland seems to be worried about it inflamming a potential jury pool but katie bar the door he may not be so worried about it coming in a trial time. I think Baez hates something about it.

Yeah, he hates it maybe because he perceives that the tape shows consciousness of guilt, but plenty of folks have stated that it's positive because it shows Casey is capable of emotion. For obvious reasons, I'll go with Door #1.

But Strickland still has to weigh probative vs. prejudicial value of the video as evidence.

[JLette]

You know, I just woke up realizing there is something to be grateful for. I was surprised that the skull stayed in the bag, especially since the torso had been pulled out and everything was so disturbed. If the skull had not stayed with the bag, I don't think she would ever have been found. It was the skull that Kronk saw. And if the skull had been badly disturbed, like virtually everything else, the duct tape would not have been in place anymore. Somehow, those bags wrapped around that skull to "protect" it.

That's a very good thing.

thank god for small favors there i guess eh? Although if that jerkwad deputy cain had done his job the first time then maybe there would have been a little bit more to work with, although she was already a skeleton by that point

[old_soul]

The problem that I have with George's scenario is that he said that Caylee was wearing a denim skirt, but the shorts found at The Zone were the striped ones from the 15th. Not sure what time George got home that night, but IF there was a fight (and there were probably fights all the time), maybe Caylee had had a spill and her shirt had been changed before Casey left with her, or maybe she was already in her jammies and Casey grabbed the striped shorts and put her in a clean shirt before she left. There's just no mistaking those shorts for a jean skirt. :shrug: Or was the skirt found too?


No skirt, darlin, as far as what I've read..probably she grabbed a few items and shoved them in her backpack? And.. the good lord only knows WTH was in that filth hole of a car! CMA could've lived in that fricken sucker for about a month if she wanted to really hide out, ya know...food (check), lodging (check), clothes (check),shoes (check), pull-ups (check), music (check)(lol), drink (check), duct tape(check) :rolleyes:
I am truly stumped about the fight and him seeing her last on the 16th...every time it pops up, G adamantly states "the last time he saw his grandaughter was the 16th". Never stuttering or sputtering or thinking for a moment there, and he's been like that about that date from the get go. Somehow, somewhere she changed a few items of clothing...Now, here's what I find really interesting.....

Who usually puts Caylee's hair in a PONYTAIL? As her 'remains' showed, there was a ponytail, and it matted underneath her skull in the decomp process.. autopsy stated the approximate length of the hairs was 6-7".

Anyone can tell when my DH did my girls hair...easiest thing for him to do was a ponytail..it became his signature cause they both had/have a** length hair and it made it easy for him...

Did Casey usually do Caylee's hair in a pony? Would a real killer have put sweetie's hair in a pony? Don't think so.

[lorettalockhorn]

No skirt, darlin, as far as what I've read..probably she grabbed a few items and shoved them in her backpack? And.. the good lord only knows WTH was in that filth hole of a car! CMA could've lived in that fricken sucker for about a month if she wanted to really hide out, ya know...food (check), lodging (check), clothes (check),shoes (check), pull-ups (check), music (check)(lol), drink (check), duct tape(check) :rolleyes:
I am truly stumped about the fight and him seeing her last on the 16th...every time it pops up, G adamantly states "the last time he saw his grandaughter was the 16th". Never stuttering or sputtering or thinking for a moment there, and he's been like that about that date from the get go. Somehow, somewhere she changed a few items of clothing...Now, here's what I find really interesting.....

Who usually puts Caylee's hair in a PONYTAIL? As her 'remains' showed, there was a ponytail, and it matted underneath her skull in the decomp process.. autopsy stated the approximate length of the hairs was 6-7".

Anyone can tell when my DH did my girls hair...easiest thing for him to do was a ponytail..it became his signature cause they both had/have a** length hair and it made it easy for him...

Did Casey usually do Caylee's hair in a pony? Would a real killer have put sweetie's hair in a pony? Don't think so.

Caylee's hair was in a ponytail in the video at Mt. Dora. You know, I can totally imagine G&C lying about a fight the 15th. I mean the nut don't fall far from the tree. But I can't imagine that there wasn't some sort of blowup about Casey having used the Plesea money whether it was loud enough for the neighbors to hear that night or not. BUT we know from the ZFG deposition that the Ants don't want to answer questions about Casey having helped herself to family funds.

I do apologize if it offends anyone that George comes off as a liar to me; his emotions seemed genuine enough yesterday. Too wittle too wate, but genuine. And selfish, but genuine.

ETA: I can't imagine Casey going to the trouble to change Caylee's clothes from the denim skirt back into the shorts worn the day before. If they were dirty, big effing deal. I can imagine that if Caylee had spilled on her shirt before Casey took off, that Cindy would have changed her shirt.

[Amy]

Also my ears perked up when on NG they said she was wearing the same shirt that George said she was wearing when he last saw her. The pink one with glittery writing. What to make of this. I for the longest time thought he was telling the truth about when he saw her as I am not a believer that there was a fight necessarily as only Casey is the source for this. No neighbors interview puts a fight on that exact date at all, the newspapers and Leonard got that wrong. So for Lee and Jesse to say Casey reported one, smacks of Casey giving herself a good reason to disappear , "Oh my Mother tried to choke me , of course I ran off and kept my baby from her." So I do not buy into this fight, Not saying it did not happen but I do not accept it as the gospel truth. Here is the rub, all of a sudden George is adding weird little details , the breakfast and did he say he put Caylee in the car? I thought he was sitting on the couch,. Now that smacks of embellishment as in I can't get my story straight because it is a lie. But he did put her in the right shirt! So what to believe. Did George really see them off? It does say to me that Caylee was killed that day. She did go out the door with Mommy in that shirt!

Bolding mine:

Yes, I believe George saw them off--the night of the 15th. Whether there was a big fight, or one where Cindy may have confronted Casey w/stealing from Grandma Shirley, or just a confrontation about Casey's life style, perhaps Cindy confronted her about not having a job, and she (Cindy) isn't going to pay Grandma Shirley back, so Casey will have to. Whatever. Some sort of confrontation that po's the heck out of Casey.

Perhaps the confrontation was long over by the time George got home, and Casey was cooled down when she left. Or, Casey was still in a snit. I don't necessarily believe that Casey and Caylee walked out that door after a pleasant exchange w/George about her going to work (because I think it was late in the night, even GEORGE wouldn't have believed just going to work @ that time.) I do believe Casey might have swept past George, carrying Caylee or dragging her along, probably leaving w/some of her vitirolic, scathing remarks ringing in his ears. But definitely, IMO, the night of the 15th.

I still wonder why George would so clearly remember what Caylee was wearing that night? Unless some of the words from Casey's mouth included they would never, ever see them (or Caylee) again. Perhaps, w/his LE background, he zoned in on what his little granddaughter was wearing? I don't know. That is just kind of odd, because that is about the only true thing that he seems to remember. IMO

[JLette]

does anyone know what shirt caylee had on in that mt dora video? it was pink iirc




nope i was wrong its blue

[Marian Paroo]

Goodness am I tired!!! Catching up on poss and Nancy Graceless on CNN.com . :(

Been off showing two internet buddies from another site- they are here visiting from the USA my town, Tel Aviv.

If anyone is planning to be in my necka da woods send me a PM and I'll see if we can meet up - would be glad to do the same for any of you! :)

[beemer]

Thanks Marion-you are one kind lady :seeya:

[beemer]

I tend to agree that G lied-there was the argument and off they went. It's just a shame that a Grandparent would allow Liar to leave in that state with their granddaughter. I would have been on the phone to police the minute she left with her. I'm sure G has been in the dog house since his money escapades. Prolly must of his life living with a control freak. He is prolly so beaten down he would do anything C says. MOO

[Gatordog]

Thanks, Gator!

Wow, those clouds were really dramatic!

That was the storm that came in 2 minutes after the service ended. It brought trees down and about 4 inches of rain in one hour.

[Gatordog]

BWAHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHA@The Grinch!



Here Casey is in all her glory. Even in death she can't manage to put her knees together:

http://i40.tinypic.com/5pq77r.jpg

Gee Cindy and the Grinch. So hard to tell the diff!

http://i44.tinypic.com/2chmlbn.jpg = http://i42.tinypic.com/2w59edz.jpg

http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-laughing021.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

[Gatordog]

beem loves those stripes! Me too! Reality check ! http://i41.tinypic.com/24opv6r.jpg

Oh my Goodness. OS, you have made me laugh so hard that my belly hurts.

Thank you.

Gator

[BeastofBears]

So...............

1. Casey put the duct tape on a live sedated Caylee to keep her quiet or

2. Casey put the duct tape on a live Caylee to smother her or

3. Casey initially put the duct tape on her mouth to stop her from crying out before she chloroformed her and then finished taping her nostrils or

4. Casey put the duct tape on a live sedated Caylee to insure death or

5. Casey put the duct tape on Caylee immediately after she passed...


:confused:
Confused? So am I........

I think that the horror of what was found explains the DP being on the table. Covering the mouth and nose of a toddler is no accident, whether chloroform was involved or not. It'd be kind of hard to try and plea out that there was a "chemical babysitter" accident considering that tape, huh? I think a plea possibility is out of the question now, imo.

I've been distracted watching Iran. People are dying in the streets, but they are still there. Iranians are brave and I salute them.

[JLette]

I tend to agree that G lied-there was the argument and off they went. It's just a shame that a Grandparent would allow Liar to leave in that state with their granddaughter. I would have been on the phone to police the minute she left with her. I'm sure G has been in the dog house since his money escapades. Prolly must of his life living with a control freak. He is prolly so beaten down he would do anything C says. MOO

me and my mother got in a fight once while my son was at her house and i was extremely pissed off at her and i wanted to take my son home with me and she wouldn't let me take him until i had calmed down.....its just a bad environment for a little kid when their parent is that angry/emotional....it made me madder at the time but it was the right move, all it would have done is stress him out...it seems like cyndi knows she probably could have prevented this from happening and that is probably why she is so out of control now

[Native Alien]

I have a question here. I have read all the discovery out there and I have been keeping up with the court hearings, so this is just me saying or asking something that I think could be of relevance when the trial happens.

I understand what the evidence against Casey is.

But how much does everyone think that character and creditability is going to affect the very outcome of the trial?

In my opinion, Cindy, George, Lee, and Casey have proven that they can't be believed. D. Casey and Hoover are so far beyond any thing that they say or do being believable that it isn't funny.

[lorettalockhorn]

I think that the horror of what was found explains the DP being on the table. Covering the mouth and nose of a toddler is no accident, whether chloroform was involved or not. It'd be kind of hard to try and plea out that there was a "chemical babysitter" accident considering that tape, huh? I think a plea possibility is out of the question now, imo.

I've been distracted watching Iran. People are dying in the streets, but they are still there. Iranians are brave and I salute them.

Have you seen this? Page down X 3 to the video. Sounds like the basiji are sniping.

http://www.facebook.com/mousavi

Agree about the plea, yet Baez and Lyon seem to think that the DP is a tactical move. :confused:

[lorettalockhorn]

me and my mother got in a fight once while my son was at her house and i was extremely pissed off at her and i wanted to take my son home with me and she wouldn't let me take him until i had calmed down.....its just a bad environment for a little kid when their parent is that angry/emotional....it made me madder at the time but it was the right move, all it would have done is stress him out...it seems like cyndi knows she probably could have prevented this from happening and that is probably why she is so out of control now

G&C have to realize at this point that their enabling had something to do with Caylee's death. This should be a time of reflection, not showboating. JMO

[lorettalockhorn]

I have a question here. I have read all the discovery out there and I have been keeping up with the court hearings, so this is just me saying or asking something that I think could be of relevance when the trial happens.

I understand what the evidence against Casey is.

But how much does everyone think that character and creditability is going to affect the very outcome of the trial?

In my opinion, Cindy, George, Lee, and Casey have proven that they can't be believed. D. Casey and Hoover are so far beyond any thing that they say or do being believable that it isn't funny.

Character? Credibility? Casey? :hat:

Seriously, I think the jury will be inflamed. Beginning with that 31 days thing.

[BeastofBears]

Have you seen this? Page down X 3 to the video. Sounds like the basigi are sniping.

http://www.facebook.com/mousavi

Agree about the plea, yet Baez and Lyon seem to think that the DP is a tactical move. :confused:

Yep. The former revolutionaries are murdering the future. Her name was apparently Neda, and that white haired man who caught her was her father. :rose:

As for tactics, reading over the autopsy report might be of benefit to them, imo. Oh, and they have the pictures, too. I bet those are rich, they'll look really nice blown up to 4'x3' in the courtroom. They can debate who did it, but if a guilty verdict comes down, good luck Ms. Lyons, imo.

[Nawny]

Caylee's hair was in a ponytail in the video at Mt. Dora. You know, I can totally imagine G&C lying about a fight the 15th. I mean the nut don't fall far from the tree. But I can't imagine that there wasn't some sort of blowup about Casey having used the Plesea money whether it was loud enough for the neighbors to hear that night or not. BUT we know from the ZFG deposition that the Ants don't want to answer questions about Casey having helped herself to family funds.

I do apologize if it offends anyone that George comes off as a liar to me; his emotions seemed genuine enough yesterday. Too wittle too wate, but genuine. And selfish, but genuine.
ETA: I can't imagine Casey going to the trouble to change Caylee's clothes from the denim skirt back into the shorts worn the day before. If they were dirty, big effing deal. I can imagine that if Caylee had spilled on her shirt before Casey took off, that Cindy would have changed her shirt.


I believe she never had on a denim skirt. I'm thinking she died with the outfit she wore in the video at the nursing home and that means she left house in the 15th not the 16th, with her chit for brains mother. I agree the shirt was changed however.

As for George, he was in court, on camera and in front of a judge begging for mercy like the Grinch told him to. He is a total nutcase just like his godforsaken wife. According to his history, he was not a nice dad until "gorgeous" was in jail and he became father of the year with his finger family.

I think George was a cheating, miserable, opportunist with a penchant for collecting off women... while Grinch worked her butt off he sat on his lazy arse. He has no integrity and when he took off to "kill himself" he didn't give a fiddler's feck what Grinch did or what any of them did as if he were the only one suffering. No spine. He's a woos. I expect him to fly off the handle in court, go hysterical when they prove liar killed that child, show pictures of the remains, hear testimony from people like Dr G and he will blow first! I hate weak men. :cuss:

They should all melt into the courtroom floor because the Prosecutors are going to wash that floor with all three of them. Remember Grinch's words. "I have no regrets" Guilt isn't even in her vocabulary.

I'm vented. :cuss:

[Nawny]

Character? Credibility? Casey? :hat:

Seriously, I think the jury will be inflamed. Beginning with that 31 days thing.

Yip! Tha'd be a done deal if I were on the jury. I'd hear nothing else. :mad: How can any juror hear anything else?

[One2Snoop]

G&C have to realize at this point that their enabling had something to do with Caylee's death. This should be a time of reflection, not showboating. JMO

Exactly!!!

[Nawny]

I just watched the Cindy and George show in court as they tried to stop the autopsy report. The video was stopping and going (I hate when that happens) but I caught the dramatic attempt to get the judge to keep the report from going public. They had a picture of Caylee in court!??? Did they need that to help them mourn? A prop? That picture should be indelible in their hearts. No one needs a coat of arms pinned on them to remember a deceased loved one . No one needs a framed picture of a deceased loved one to throw in the face of a judge for any reason. They wanted the Judge to protect Caylee's "integrity" ????? When will they?

Integrity is a silent behavior. It is the prerogative of the brave. It is Jackie Kennedy walking behind her husband's coffin holding the hands of her children.. or the smile on the faces of people with shattered hearts or the soldiers who fight to keep this country free, that we see every day. It is the children who go hungry and stay grateful. Integrity gives, it never takes.

These people have cashed in on Caylee in every way and they're still using her. They think throwing pictures of a dead child at a judge will get them what they want. They are still taking, still playing with the hearts of LE..of the public. How dare they even show their own faces in public. How dare they defend Caylee's killer! GA's tears did nothing to move me..... and I cry for injured geese.

Jeeeze! :flamemad:

[SaraSidle]

I so hope Caylee was drugged first but hearing that there was a lot of suffering before she died makes me sick. We may never know the 100% exact cod but her daughter she kept in her trunk had layers of duct tape covering her breathing mechanism. And the duct tape did match the tape in the Anthony's garage. IMO sara

[lighthousedazy]

=Nawny;9198921]I believe she never had on a denim skirt. I'm thinking she died with the outfit she wore in the video at the nursing home and that means she left house in the 15th not the 16th, with her chit for brains mother. I agree the shirt was changed however. [/B]As for George, he was in court, on camera and in front of a judge begging for mercy like the Grinch told him to. He is a total nutcase just like his godforsaken wife. According to his history, he was not a nice dad until "gorgeous" was in jail and he became father of the year with his finger family.

I think George was a cheating, miserable, opportunist with a penchant for collecting off women... while Grinch worked her butt off he sat on his lazy arse. He has no integrity and when he took off to "kill himself" he didn't give a fiddler's feck what Grinch did or what any of them did as if he were the only one suffering. No spine. He's a woos. I expect him to fly off the handle in court, go hysterical when they prove liar killed that child, show pictures of the remains, hear testimony from people like Dr G and he will blow first! I hate weak men. :cuss:

They should all melt into the courtroom floor because the Prosecutors are going to wash that floor with all three of them. Remember Grinch's words. "I have no regrets" Guilt isn't even in her vocabulary.

I'm vented. :cuss:
Nawny, I do agree with you. I think I am the same age you are, and these young slacker women of today, just let the kids fall asleep in what they are wearing. Don't jump on me, not all of them do that. I have seen it with my own and their friends. So in my opinion, Caylee probably died in the outfit that Geo last saw her in. jmo
ETA: This sorryness happened in my day to. jmo

[Nawny]

I so hope Caylee was drugged first but hearing that there was a lot of suffering before she died makes me sick. We may never know the 100% exact cod but her daughter she kept in her trunk had layers of duct tape covering her breathing mechanism. And the duct tape did match the tape in the Anthony's garage. IMO sara

SARA!!!! I was just thinking of you this very morning! I HOPE ALL IS WELL WITH YOU! It's so good to see you here!
:seeya:

[Nawny]

=Nawny;9198921]I believe she never had on a denim skirt. I'm thinking she died with the outfit she wore in the video at the nursing home and that means she left house in the 15th not the 16th, with her chit for brains mother. I agree the shirt was changed however. [/B]As for George, he was in court, on camera and in front of a judge begging for mercy like the Grinch told him to. He is a total nutcase just like his godforsaken wife. According to his history, he was not a nice dad until "gorgeous" was in jail and he became father of the year with his finger family.

I think George was a cheating, miserable, opportunist with a penchant for collecting off women... while Grinch worked her butt off he sat on his lazy arse. He has no integrity and when he took off to "kill himself" he didn't give a fiddler's feck what Grinch did or what any of them did as if he were the only one suffering. No spine. He's a woos. I expect him to fly off the handle in court, go hysterical when they prove liar killed that child, show pictures of the remains, hear testimony from people like Dr G and he will blow first! I hate weak men. :cuss:

They should all melt into the courtroom floor because the Prosecutors are going to wash that floor with all three of them. Remember Grinch's words. "I have no regrets" Guilt isn't even in her vocabulary.

I'm vented. :cuss:
Nawny, I do agree with you. I think I am the same age you are, and these young slacker women of today, just let the kids fall asleep in what they are wearing. Don't jump on me, not all of them do that. I have seen it with my own and their friends. So in my opinion, Caylee probably died in the outfit that Geo last saw her in. jmo
ETA: This sorryness happened in my day to. jmo

Yes my pal! These things happened in our day too but men were stronger. When our generation of women showed up pregnant, we had to marry the father, get our butts in gear and take care of our kids. We missed the prom, never mind go partying at clubs! Our teenage husbands had to get a j j j job! This generation if Casey's is lame.. (no not all of them) I'm thinking more and more that GA is a liar... we focus so much on CA and the culprit might be more on GA's end. Whine bagging lying little weasel just like the apple who fell from him. They're all nuts!
I can't stand what we learned this week.. not like I didn't know it.. :(

[lorettalockhorn]

Nawny, I do agree with you. I think I am the same age you are, and these young slacker women of today, just let the kids fall asleep in what they are wearing. Don't jump on me, not all of them do that. I have seen it with my own and their friends. So in my opinion, Caylee probably died in the outfit that Geo last saw her in. jmo
ETA: This sorryness happened in my day to. jmo

Yes my pal! These things happened in our day too but men were stronger. When our generation of women showed up pregnant, we had to marry the father, get our butts in gear and take care of our kids. We missed the prom, never mind go partying at clubs! Our teenage husbands had to get a j j j job! This generation if Casey's is lame.. (no not all of them) I'm thinking more and more that GA is a liar... we focus so much on CA and the culprit might be more on GA's end. Whine bagging lying little weasel just like the apple who fell from him. They're all nuts!
I can't stand what we learned this week.. not like I didn't know it.. :([/QUOTE]

I'm wondering how adept a liar George might be. What was he telling Cindy when he lost that money online? And do we really, really know that he did lose money in some sort of E Scheme? Was he using it to wine and dine another woman?

And kind OT, but it has always amused me somewhat that Casey was so POed about George losing money. Are his finances really any of her business? Was she afraid he'd break her plate and she'd have to get the dreaded J*O*B?!

Anyway, it's interesting that she and George didn't get along and now they act like they're The Finest Finger Family in the history of finger families.

Is the board on crack today?!

[JLette]

I have a question here. I have read all the discovery out there and I have been keeping up with the court hearings, so this is just me saying or asking something that I think could be of relevance when the trial happens.

I understand what the evidence against Casey is.

But how much does everyone think that character and creditability is going to affect the very outcome of the trial?

In my opinion, Cindy, George, Lee, and Casey have proven that they can't be believed. D. Casey and Hoover are so far beyond any thing that they say or do being believable that it isn't funny.

i agree with that wholeheartedly....i am not sure how much it will effect the actual verdict but when you put the character and credibility of these people on top of the physical evidence and the fact that casey didn't report her missing at all it will probably have a lot to do with the outcome

[deacon]

That was the storm that came in 2 minutes after the service ended. It brought trees down and about 4 inches of rain in one hour.

Have you ever thought that God was angry? I have. I think He showed it.

I really think Caylee was sedated with chloroform and then the tape was applied so she could not breath.

[BeastofBears]

Have you ever thought that God was angry? I have. I think He showed it.

I really think Caylee was sedated with chloroform and then the tape was applied so she could not breath.

I hope so, but I think that might be too kind. 1 strip of duct tape would have done the job on a sedated tiny toddler. No need for several. Hate to use the cliche, but it was overkill. I think somebody lost their temper.

all moo.

[Nawny]

I hope so, but I think that might be too kind. 1 strip of duct tape would have done the job on a sedated tiny toddler. No need for several. Hate to use the cliche, but it was overkill. I think somebody lost their temper.

all moo.

I agree! She must have lost her temper, had a fit, lost her mind.. all of that. She snapped because Caylee was most likely having a little kiddie melt down. IMO Yes overkill. Yes she didn't give a flying flucker at the time, or after the time, ala tattoo Bella Vita.. :rolleyes:

[lighthousedazy]

I agree! She must have lost her temper, had a fit, lost her mind.. all of that. She snapped because Caylee was most likely having a little kiddie melt down. IMO Yes overkill. Yes she didn't give a flying flucker at the time, or after the time, ala tattoo Bella Vita.. :rolleyes:
Yes, that baby was killed in anger and her death was also premeditated. imo. I was watching a bit of Dr. Daniel Amen on PBS talking about his book and other things, "A Magnificent Mind at Any Age", and in one part he stated that a parent who could never say 'no' to a child or discipline the child properly that this child would grow up thinking that society could never say no to them or that they would be above the law and not have to abide by the laws of man. This reminded me of liar caysee. She thinks she is above it all. I guess socio's are made not born. They never seek psyche help because they don't think anything is wrong with them. :mad: jmo

[Nawny]

Yes, that baby was killed in anger and her death was also premeditated. imo. I was watching a bit of Dr. Daniel Amen on PBS talking about his book and other things, "A Magnificent Mind at Any Age", and in one part he stated that a parent who could never say 'no' to a child or discipline the child properly that this child would grow up thinking that society could never say no to them or that they would be above the law and not have to abide by the laws of man. This reminded me of liar cayce. She thinks she is above it all. I guess socio's are made not born. They never seek psyche help because they don't think anything is wrong with them. :mad: emo

Agree 100% with your post LHD!

I find it fascinating that socio's can believe their own lies and know human nature so well that they can get though life lying like rugs and get away with it most of the time. Whether or not they are made or born seems to be one hell of a huge unanswerable question. From what I've read which is a thimble full of info on them, they read others so well they seem intuitive and yet stupid as a box of rocks.

That sort of defines casey.. and yet she got through life until age 21. I believe this socio was being pressured by CA and that just caused eruptions. From different reports CA knew she was dealing with a sickness, she more than once spoke of that fact. She should have had her committed. It blows me away that she let her leave that house with Caylee.

No regrets Cindy?

[deacon]

I agree! She must have lost her temper, had a fit, lost her mind.. all of that. She snapped because Caylee was most likely having a little kiddie melt down. IMO Yes overkill. Yes she didn't give a flying flucker at the time, or after the time, ala tattoo Bella Vita.. :rolleyes:

Normally when one loses their temper they sort of "come down" off of it when the event is over and will feel some remorse. Don't think casey did that. I think there was some anger there but not lost temper. Also no "snapped". She did what she did for Bella Vita. The good life. The life after Caylee was gone. She could get away from cindy and george and have a good life parting till she puked. (at least that was what she saw in her dreams.)

[Nawny]

Normally when one loses their temper they sort of "come down" off of it when the event is over and will feel some remorse. Don't think casey did that. I think there was some anger there but not lost temper. Also no "snapped". She did what she did for Bella Vita. The good life. The life after Caylee was gone. She could get away from cindy and george and have a good life parting till she puked. (at least that was what she saw in her dreams.)

Could be deacon, could be... nodding my head- bella vita.

I always suspected that she planned to disappear, leave the state and never let her parents see Caylee again. She has zero insight. I guess she didn't know she isn't too smart, and her plans would fail... onna conna you have to put some effort into a plan. Her only effort was the ripping of duct tape and placing the child in the woods.

[deacon]

Could be deacon, could be... nodding my head- bella vita.

I always suspected that she planned to disappear, leave the state and never let her parents see Caylee again. She has zero insight. I guess she didn't know she isn't too smart, and her plans would fail... onna conna you have to put some effort into a plan. Her only effort was the ripping of duct tape and placing the child in the woods.

I really think it was more of how she lived her life. Planning at the end of her nose. That doesn't mean I think she is a mental giant or anything.

[Gatordog]

I see that Brad Conway was on the Today Show this morning discuss the autopsy report. I have been unable to download it. For people who didn't want it released because of the attention it would draw, they are certainly doing a lot of yacking about it! They said they wanted the medical examiner to discuss the findings no one else, so why is Brad Conway talking so much about it and bringing attention to it? http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-talk024.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

[JLette]

I see that Brad Conway was on the Today Show this morning discuss the autopsy report. I have been unable to download it. For people who didn't want it released because of the attention it would draw, they are certainly doing a lot of yacking about it! They said they wanted the medical examiner to discuss the findings no one else, so why is Brad Conway talking so much about it and bringing attention to it? http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-talk024.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

LOL Gator, anything to keep themselves in the spotlight right?

[deacon]

I see that Brad Conway was on the Today Show this morning discuss the autopsy report. I have been unable to download it. For people who didn't want it released because of the attention it would draw, they are certainly doing a lot of yacking about it! They said they wanted the medical examiner to discuss the findings no one else, so why is Brad Conway talking so much about it and bringing attention to it? http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-talk024.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

He has been for a ride in the boat and we know what that leads to.:hat:

[lorettalockhorn]

I see that Brad Conway was on the Today Show this morning discuss the autopsy report. I have been unable to download it. For people who didn't want it released because of the attention it would draw, they are certainly doing a lot of yacking about it! They said they wanted the medical examiner to discuss the findings no one else, so why is Brad Conway talking so much about it and bringing attention to it? http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-talk024.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

Thanks for the heads up. Try this:

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/31484912#31484912

Get a load of what the defense expert says.

[applesandorange]

Thanks for the heads up. Try this:

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/31484912#31484912

Get a load of what the defense expert says.


Is that all they have? Some "expert" saying there's no proof of duct tape? He can't be serious. Surely there will be pictures of the skull with duct tape on it. I can't even believe he's denying the duct tape. This is ridiculous. They just keep on hammering those nails into Casey's coffin.

[lorettalockhorn]

Is that all they have? Some "expert" saying there's no proof of duct tape? He can't be serious. Surely there will be pictures of the skull with duct tape on it. I can't even believe he's denying the duct tape. This is ridiculous. They just keep on hammering those nails into Casey's coffin.

Well, the photos aren't released to the public because of the Earnheardt Law (and that's okay fine by me), but wouldn't you think the defense has access and the defense expert would look at the evidence before commenting? :confused::rolleyes:

And does Brad Conway try to make the Ants sound like martyrs or what?

[old_soul]

Thanks for the heads up. Try this:

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/31484912#31484912

Get a load of what the defense expert says.

Thanks for this link..I didn't know this was on this AM.........

Ok, so my question is: Is Werner Spitz talking about the same case???!! Don't want to say he sounds like he's in another zone, but........No duct tape? 'No pictures seen, Mr. Spitz? I understand where you might not have viewed the skull itself with the duct tape on, because it was taken off for further testing, but...... that was a damn ignorant thing to say in the face of what is in pros evidence as in pictures and the autopsy itself. (all 90 pages). Perhaps you had better ask Mr. Baez to let you see those pictures, he has copies, ok.

How sad.

Cyril Wecht has no dog in this fight, and so , was able to tell it like he read...his conclusion that the duct tape was there to smother her is what Spitz would have said if he were to be honest. Homicide, Spitz, Homicide.

[deacon]

Thanks for this link..I didn't know this was on this AM.........

Ok, so my question is: Is Werner Spitz talking about the same case???!! Don't want to say he sounds like he's in another zone, but........No duct tape? 'No pictures seen, Mr. Spitz? I understand where you might not have viewed the skull itself with the duct tape on, because it was taken off for further testing, but...... that was a damn ignorant thing to say in the face of what is in pros evidence as in pictures and the autopsy itself. (all 90 pages). Perhaps you had better ask Mr. Baez to let you see those pictures, he has copies, ok.

How sad.

Cyril Wecht has no dog in this fight, and so , was able to tell it like he read...his conclusion that the duct tape was there to smother her is what Spitz would have said if he were to be honest. Homicide, Spitz, Homicide.


Sounds like someone else went for a boat ride. No, not ignorant. I feel it may have bordered on "not so smart." You can fix ignorant but you can't fix........:hat:

[old_soul]

Sounds like someone else went for a boat ride. No, not ignorant. I feel it may have bordered on "not so smart." You can fix ignorant but you can't fix........:hat:


:D
Maybe before they all sign on the defense side, they are required to sit down and drink Casey kool aid, you know, part of the (ah hem) initiation rites or something....:beer: http://i41.tinypic.com/n6uu0j.jpg

Then they all start hallucinating that she's innocent..hahahahaha :tongue:

It's like they are a bunch of rogue pirates who drank grog then go on air telling tales, matey!

[Gatordog]

Have you ever thought that God was angry? I have. I think He showed it.

I really think Caylee was sedated with chloroform and then the tape was applied so she could not breath.

Yes Deacon, you are correct. God was angry. The skies changed the minute those ballons with the names of missing or murdered children were released.

[deacon]

Yes Deacon, you are correct. God was angry. The skies changed the minute those ballons with the names of missing or murdered childredn were released.

He loves his kids. Anyone who doesn't believe that, read the Bible. It is full of His love for children.:read:

[Gatordog]

Is that all they have? Some "expert" saying there's no proof of duct tape? He can't be serious. Surely there will be pictures of the skull with duct tape on it. I can't even believe he's denying the duct tape. This is ridiculous. They just keep on hammering those nails into Casey's coffin.

He states there appeared to be no adhesive on the skull bones. Well Duh, the tape was stuck to the skin and soft tissue not to bone. He didn't test the duct tape or anything. So can anyone tell me why they held that poor little body for one month? http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-sad006.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

[Gatordog]

Sounds like someone else went for a boat ride. No, not ignorant. I feel it may have bordered on "not so smart." You can fix ignorant but you can't fix........:hat:

Definitely The Ship Of Fools.

[SaraSidle]

Yes my pal! These things happened in our day too but men were stronger. When our generation of women showed up pregnant, we had to marry the father, get our butts in gear and take care of our kids. We missed the prom, never mind go partying at clubs! Our teenage husbands had to get a j j j job! This generation if Casey's is lame.. (no not all of them) I'm thinking more and more that GA is a liar... we focus so much on CA and the culprit might be more on GA's end. Whine bagging lying little weasel just like the apple who fell from him. They're all nuts!
I can't stand what we learned this week.. not like I didn't know it.. :(

I'm wondering how adept a liar George might be. What was he telling Cindy when he lost that money online? And do we really, really know that he did lose money in some sort of E Scheme? Was he using it to wine and dine another woman?

And kind OT, but it has always amused me somewhat that Casey was so POed about George losing money. Are his finances really any of her business? Was she afraid he'd break her plate and she'd have to get the dreaded J*O*B?!

Anyway, it's interesting that she and George didn't get along and now they act like they're The Finest Finger Family in the history of finger families.

Is the board on crack today?![/QUOTE] LOL thanks. I thought maybe I needed more sleep...........sara

[Gatordog]

Brad Conway stated today that the Liar and her parents have communicated by letter through Baez. I didn't think attorneys were allowed to deliver inmate mail. I thought all mail had to be read by jail personnel. Is baez breaking the law? Where is that attorney, Peaches, when we need her?

If anyone knows if this transfer of mail via attorney is legal, let us know.

Gator

[deacon]

Brad Conway stated today that the Liar and her parents have communicated by letter through Baez. I didn't think attorneys were allowed to deliver inmate mail. I thought all mail had to be read by jail personnel. Is baez breaking the law? Where is that attorney, Peaches, when we need her?

If anyone knows if this transfer of mail via attorney is legal, let us knwo.

Gator

If not, the kitty is out of the baggie now. That would kinda fit this group. "not so smart.":D

[Gatordog]

I tried to call NG with the question, but thw line always rings busy. I think I will contact a few of the local reporters and let them ask the right people the question. :D

Gator

[BeastofBears]

He states there appeared to be no adhesive on the skull bones. Well Duh, the tape was stuck to the skin and soft tissue not to bone. He didn't test the duct tape or anything. So can anyone tell me why they held that poor little body for one month? http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-sad006.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

Are you serious? He said that? If the body had been moved and staged months after death, then I would expect adhesive on the bones, not otherwise. I guess this is one other defense theory problem, from their own expert...imo.

As for your last point, my theory is Anthony infighting. Not that they've ever shown any sign of that kind of thing or anything...

[deacon]

*GAG* The state is asking for a picture of the famous tatoo. Shoot, no puke icon. Where is the tatoo?

[lorettalockhorn]

:D
Maybe before they all sign on the defense side, they are required to sit down and drink Casey kool aid, you know, part of the (ah hem) initiation rites or something....:beer: http://i41.tinypic.com/n6uu0j.jpg

Then they all start hallucinating that she's innocent..hahahahaha :tongue:

It's like they are a bunch of rogue pirates who drank grog then go on air telling tales, matey!

...on the job and in the bag. hehehe

[lorettalockhorn]

I'm wondering how adept a liar George might be. What was he telling Cindy when he lost that money online? And do we really, really know that he did lose money in some sort of E Scheme? Was he using it to wine and dine another woman?

And kind OT, but it has always amused me somewhat that Casey was so POed about George losing money. Are his finances really any of her business? Was she afraid he'd break her plate and she'd have to get the dreaded J*O*B?!

Anyway, it's interesting that she and George didn't get along and now they act like they're The Finest Finger Family in the history of finger families.

Is the board on crack today?! LOL thanks. I thought maybe I needed more sleep...........sara[/QUOTE]

See what I mean?!? :seeya:

[lorettalockhorn]

Brad Conway stated today that the Liar and her parents have communicated by letter through Baez. I didn't think attorneys were allowed to deliver inmate mail. I thought all mail had to be read by jail personnel. Is baez breaking the law? Where is that attorney, Peaches, when we need her?

If anyone knows if this transfer of mail via attorney is legal, let us know.

Gator

From the OC jail website:

Sending Mail to Inmates
Rules & Requirements


Use complete committed name
Use complete jail and cell numbers
Use complete address
Example:
John Joseph Jones
00012345 M-4A
P.O. Box 4970
Orlando, FL 32802-4970

Sender must use their first and last name and complete return address
Send money orders with inmate's name and jail number. Do not send cash or personal checks.
Do not send stamps, envelopes, paper, pens, pencils, inappropriate pictures or polaroids, plastic cards, phone cards, stickers, lipstick marks on envelopes, or glued items.
No unnecessary writing or drawings are allowed on envelopes.
Books (paperback only - no hard covers), magazines, newspapers and religious materials must be mailed directly by the publisher or bookstore. Publications cannot contain any nudity.
All correspondence addressed to inmates must be sent by the United States Postal Service (USPS). Correspondence sent by other courier or delivery service will be refused.
If you have questions about inmate mail, call or email the mailroom:

Mail Room: (407) 836-3599 or (407) 836-0350 Email
The Mail Services Section provides, sorts and delivers mail to both inmates and employees. The mailroom processes more than 127 tons of mail annually for the department's more than 1,800 employees and more than 4,000 inmates. Each piece of inmate mail must be opened and checked for contraband items.

http://www.orangecountyfl.net/cms/BUSINESS/jail/InmateMail.htm

[BeastofBears]

*GAG* The state is asking for a picture of the famous tatoo. Shoot, no puke icon. Where is the tatoo?

Left shoulder. But if you watched Nancy Grace, you gotta see a nice close-up of the butt-shamrock. ewww.

[lorettalockhorn]

*GAG* The state is asking for a picture of the famous tatoo. Shoot, no puke icon. Where is the tatoo?

Just started watching NG and I think they stated the tat is on the upper shoulder. Kinda surprised that there isn't already a photo of it from the arrest or booking.

HAHAHA Nancy's having a tantrum at Peter Odum. Musta been a great vacay! :hat: Saw her touting her new book on The View when I switched over to watch Jeopardy this morning.

[lorettalockhorn]

Left shoulder. But if you watched Nancy Grace, you gotta see a nice close-up of the butt-shamrock. ewww.

Gee, I missed that.

*whew*

[One2Snoop]

Casey Anthony case: Prosecutors want trial date set in fraud case
The state wants the trial set within the next 60 days.

Sarah Lundy | Sentinel Staff Writer
5:08 PM EDT, June 22, 2009

Prosecutors want the fraud case against Casey Anthony to go to trial within the next two months, according to a request filed today by the state.

Anthony, 23, is charged with more than a dozen fraud charges, including fraudulent use of personal identification information, forgery of a check and uttering a forged check.

Anthony's friend, Amy Huizenga, told investigators that she loaned her car to Anthony while Huizenga was on vacation last summer. When she returned, Huizenga learned checks were missing from her car and that her bank account had a zero balance.

Authorities say Anthony used her friend's check to buy more than $400 worth of clothes and groceries at area Target and Winn-Dixie stores. According to investigators, she also withdrew $250 from the bank and attempted to pay a $574 phone bill, but there wasn't enough money left in Huizenga's account.

Prosecutors don't want wait to resolve the fraud case with the murder case. Anthony is charged with first-degree murder in the death of her 2-year-old daughter, Caylee Marie.

Last month, attorneys said the murder trial won't likely happen until next year.

"Given the complexities of the two cases, it is unreasonable to allow the forgery case to languish another year without a resolution," Assistant State Attorney Frank George wrote in the two-page request.

No trial date has been set yet.

In the murder case, George filed a separate request for the state.

Prosecutors want a picture of Anthony's tattoo of the words "Bella Vita," which means "Beautiful Life." She got the tattoo around July 3, which is after her daughter disappeared.

A picture of the tattoo "would be relevant and material in evaluating issues to be presented in connection with the upcoming trial," he wrote.

Orange Circuit Court Judge Stan Strickland has not responded to the request.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/orl-bk-casey-anthony-fraud-trial062209,0,6615801.story

[deacon]

Left shoulder. But if you watched Nancy Grace, you gotta see a nice close-up of the butt-shamrock. ewww.

No interest in either. I have noticed that the defence THs have changed from good defense points to becoming the "spin doctors." It seems they have nothing to say other than the new "half truth" spin moments. Like the tape not being attached to the skull. Give me a break. That, to me, was "not so smart." Bless their hearts. I would guess her lawyer doesn't even know how to do a half spin without making himself dizzy.

[deacon]

[B]Casey Anthony case: Prosecutors want trial date set in fraud case
=snipped for space.Prosecutors want a picture of Anthony's tattoo of the words "Bella Vita," which means "Beautiful Life." She got the tattoo around July 3, which is after her daughter disappeared.

A picture of the tattoo "would be relevant and material in evaluating issues to be presented in connection with the upcoming trial," he wrote.

Orange Circuit Court Judge Stan Strickland has not responded to the request.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/orl-bk-casey-anthony-fraud-trial062209,0,6615801.story


I take it then that the prosecutors from the fraud case want the picture or the ones from the death case?

[wind149]

The tattoo has some significance and I am thinking it is about the meaning, A Better Life? Sounds like to me, by getting that tattoo, she was trying to say that she was going to have a better life now that she got rid of Caylee??? This b*tch does not give a crap less about anyone but herself, but she had help there, she learned from the Queen. And wasn't that a touching moment when George and Cindy begged the Judge to not release the autopsy report, that it "would be too painful" But if Good Morning America called tonight and asked them to come on the show tomorrow morning and that they wanted to discuss the report, these two losers would be on the first red eye, apparently when camera time and money is involved, it is not "too painful" And I am very pleased with Judge Strickland, I believe he dislikes these morons intensely and that he stands for justice and not getting his mug on camera and I am sure he is as disgusted as the rest of the country that these people have sold that child for 40 pieces of silver, capitalized on their dead granddaughter's death and that there isn't a camera around they don't like unless you count Zenaida's depos and all that is caught on tape and I keep saying this and I know, but I can't WAIT FOR THE TRIAL!!

I can't wait to see how they act in court when the DA is hammering questions at them they do not want to answer and they won't be able to tell the DA what they will and won't testify about and I do predict that they will act like total assholes, they can't help themselves, especially Queenie and like I said this past year has thousands of hours of coverage of this case and I would love to see that tape from the jail, but we have all heard what the female deputy advised, that she just lost it, begged for meds and right there in her pea brain, she must have thought, "Oh sh*t, they found her body, how am I going to spin this one and especially to mom and dad"? If that was not Caylee she would not have batted an eyelash, so that tape is a smoking gun as well, her reaction to the news of the body, even before it was revealed that it was Caylee, speaks volume to me and I am sure will not be lost on jurists and the judge. Some people don't fell a jury will impose the DP, but when this all comes out in court, they will, a beautiful two year old child is dead because of jealousy and spite and a mother who simply did not care about her and even called her snothead and right after she is just missing, she is out partying the night away, tongue kissing women and crotch dancing with women, gets a tattoo saying now she will have a better life, yeah, at least the next 14 years or so, she will be confined to an 8x10 cell, all alone till the day she walks that green mile. No one thought Karla Faye Tucker would be executed either and George W. Bush refused to grant clemency and she was executed. There are women on death row in all of the DP states and I would think Darlie Routier must be getting close, TX usually executes them fairly quickly, some as little as 5 years and Darlie has been on the row since 1997 so her time is gonna come soon, probably the next year or maybe even sooner and she deserves it.

[mu8shark]

I believe she never had on a denim skirt. I'm thinking she died with the outfit she wore in the video at the nursing home and that means she left house in the 15th not the 16th, with her chit for brains mother. I agree the shirt was changed however.

As for George, he was in court, on camera and in front of a judge begging for mercy like the Grinch told him to. He is a total nutcase just like his godforsaken wife. According to his history, he was not a nice dad until "gorgeous" was in jail and he became father of the year with his finger family.

I think George was a cheating, miserable, opportunist with a penchant for collecting off women... while Grinch worked her butt off he sat on his lazy arse. He has no integrity and when he took off to "kill himself" he didn't give a fiddler's feck what Grinch did or what any of them did as if he were the only one suffering. No spine. He's a woos. I expect him to fly off the handle in court, go hysterical when they prove liar killed that child, show pictures of the remains, hear testimony from people like Dr G and he will blow first! I hate weak men. :cuss:

They should all melt into the courtroom floor because the Prosecutors are going to wash that floor with all three of them. Remember Grinch's words. "I have no regrets" Guilt isn't even in her vocabulary.

I'm vented. :cuss: I completely respectfully disagree. I looked at the video of her with Great grandpa and she has on a blue shirt not a pink shirt. They found the pink shirt at the scene., not the blue shirt. While of course they could of changed her clothes on the 15th, it is more likely to me now that George is not lying and remember in the beginning he was trying to be helpful and honest in the interviews. According to NG and JVM on Friday George got the shirt complete with glittler completely right. I think she was killed on the 16th and for sure Casey came back to the house to do it in private. The phone records put her there after George left. I also think eventualy the police will put Casey in the house in the morning before George left with the phone records. I think it is telling that at no point do the police or FBI contradict George's account. Also while you may throw some clothes and toys in a bag Casey would not have left on the 15th with the trash bags, tape, laundry bag etc, she came back for those and killed her. JMO

[mu8shark]

Are you serious? He said that? If the body had been moved and staged months after death, then I would expect adhesive on the bones, not otherwise. I guess this is one other defense theory problem, from their own expert...imo.

As for your last point, my theory is Anthony infighting. Not that they've ever shown any sign of that kind of thing or anything... I heard Jean Casares say the defense is going with the theory that the duct tape was planted. Really? Think the ME, the OCSD and the FBI got together and managed to get the exact same tape as at the Anthony house. I ask you who would you believe? This planting theory is not going to work for them either and by the way didn't Kronk say he saw the duct tape when he found the body? So before the police came the tape was there right? Also the ME would be able to tell tape that was weathered and brand new tape put on there at the police station as a plant. This is laughable.

[deacon]

The tattoo has some significance and I am thinking it is about the meaning, A Better Life? Sounds like to me, by getting that tattoo, she was trying to say that she was going to have a better life now that she got rid of Caylee??? This b*tch does not give a crap less about anyone but herself, but she had help there, she learned from the Queen. And wasn't that a touching moment when George and Cindy begged the Judge to not release the autopsy report, that it "would be too painful" But if Good Morning America called tonight and asked them to come on the show tomorrow morning and that they wanted to discuss the report, these two losers would be on the first red eye, apparently when camera time and money is involved, it is not "too painful" And I am very pleased with Judge Strickland, I believe he dislikes these morons intensely and that he stands for justice and not getting his mug on camera and I am sure he is as disgusted as the rest of the country that these people have sold that child for 40 pieces of silver, capitalized on their dead granddaughter's death and that there isn't a camera around they don't like unless you count Zenaida's depos and all that is caught on tape and I keep saying this and I know, but I can't WAIT FOR THE TRIAL!!

I can't wait to see how they act in court when the DA is hammering questions at them they do not want to answer and they won't be able to tell the DA what they will and won't testify about and I do predict that they will act like total assholes, they can't help themselves, especially Queenie and like I said this past year has thousands of hours of coverage of this case and I would love to see that tape from the jail, but we have all heard what the female deputy advised, that she just lost it, begged for meds and right there in her pea brain, she must have thought, "Oh sh*t, they found her body, how am I going to spin this one and especially to mom and dad"? If that was not Caylee she would not have batted an eyelash, so that tape is a smoking gun as well, her reaction to the news of the body, even before it was revealed that it was Caylee, speaks volume to me and I am sure will not be lost on jurists and the judge. Some people don't fell a jury will impose the DP, but when this all comes out in court, they will, a beautiful two year old child is dead because of jealousy and spite and a mother who simply did not care about her and even called her snothead and right after she is just missing, she is out partying the night away, tongue kissing women and crotch dancing with women, gets a tattoo saying now she will have a better life, yeah, at least the next 14 years or so, she will be confined to an 8x10 cell, all alone till the day she walks that green mile. No one thought Karla Faye Tucker would be executed either and George W. Bush refused to grant clemency and she was executed. There are women on death row in all of the DP states and I would think Darlie Routier must be getting close, TX usually executes them fairly quickly, some as little as 5 years and Darlie has been on the row since 1997 so her time is gonna come soon, probably the next year or maybe even sooner and she deserves it.

On the first, yes that is what I think too. However, some seem to think she was talking about Caylee and it was only 2 weeks after she disappeared. Funny to have a "memorial" tatto if you child is missing. However, if she knew your child was dead already then the tatoo then it is a memorial.

On the second one, that is what one of the state lawyers aske him. How many times they had been on shows to discuss the death of their grand daughter.

When they get on the stand in the real trial they better not make themselves out an assonthething. If they do they may get their hand spanked. Of course some of them maybe use to being spanked.

[mu8shark]

The problem that I have with George's scenario is that he said that Caylee was wearing a denim skirt, but the shorts found at The Zone were the striped ones from the 15th. Not sure what time George got home that night, but IF there was a fight (and there were probably fights all the time), maybe Caylee had had a spill and her shirt had been changed before Casey left with her, or maybe she was already in her jammies and Casey grabbed the striped shorts and put her in a clean shirt before she left. There's just no mistaking those shorts for a jean skirt. :shrug: Or was the skirt found too?I sort of think he just got confused on the jean denim skirt. But a glittery top might be something one would remember and he did get the color and the glitter right. She definitely did not have that pink shirt on seeing GG. I was rereading Georges initial interview early on when he talks about seeing Caylee and Casey and the thing that got me in that interview was how honest he was trying to be about the smell, his negative view of Casey and her lying and living on the edge all the time. He also apologized in that interview over and over for how Cindy was not cooperating and treating LE. I think early on just in my opinion he was being truthful. Only later when the wicked witch got to him did he turn difficult and start lying. I have gone back and forth on this scenario and the glitter shirt does it for me, plus rereading how different he was in the beginning. Also at no point do they seem to question his veracity in those initial interviews. Whatever the case phone records and Caseys constant texting will verify where she was before George left.

[lorettalockhorn]

On the first, yes that is what I think too. However, some seem to think she was talking about Caylee and it was only 2 weeks after she disappeared. Funny to have a "memorial" tatto if you child is missing. However, if she knew your child was dead already then the tatoo then it is a memorial.

On the second one, that is what one of the state lawyers aske him. How many times they had been on shows to discuss the death of their grand daughter.

When they get on the stand in the real trial they better not make themselves out an assonthething. If they do they may get their hand spanked. Of course some of them maybe use to being spanked.

Interesting that the owner of the tattoo parlor says that Casey told the artist that she would ring Caylee in on the following Saturday. Um, doesn't that conflict with Timer 55???

Amazing just how FOS this family is. I guess we can suppose that Zanny told Casey to get Bella Vita permanently inscribed. :rolleyes: Just saw the tape again of George imploring the judge not to let Caylee's memory be tarnished. HUH? How does the truth tarnish? I'm thinking when it comes to it being "all for Caylee" he means varnish. In the worst sense of the word.

[mu8shark]

Have you ever thought that God was angry? I have. I think He showed it.

I really think Caylee was sedated with chloroform and then the tape was applied so she could not breath. I absolutely agree with this completely. It was the sociopath's way of saying to herself At least I was humane and put her out before I let her suffocate. That has Casey written all over it.

[deacon]

Interesting that the owner of the tattoo parlor says that Casey told the artist that she would ring Caylee in on the following Saturday. Um, doesn't that conflict with Timer 55???

Amazing just how FOS this family is. I guess we can suppose that Zanny told Casey to get Bella Vita permanently inscribed. :rolleyes: Just saw the tape again of George imploring the judge not to let Caylee's memory be tarnished. HUH? How does the truth tarnish? I'm thinking when it comes to it being "all for Caylee" he means varnish. In the worst sense of the word.

I don't know. I think there have been so many lies told that it tends to confuse me sometimes. Not telling the truth must be contageous.

[lorettalockhorn]

I sort of think he just got confused on the jean denim skirt. But a glittery top might be something one would remember and he did get the color and the glitter right. She definitely did not have that pink shirt on seeing GG. I was rereading Georges initial interview early on when he talks about seeing Caylee and Casey and the thing that got me in that interview was how honest he was trying to be about the smell, his negative view of Casey and her lying and living on the edge all the time. He also apologized in that interview over and over for how Cindy was not cooperating and treating LE. I think early on just in my opinion he was being truthful. Only later when the wicked witch got to him did he turn difficult and start lying. I have gone back and forth on this scenario and the glitter shirt does it for me, plus rereading how different he was in the beginning. Also at no point do they seem to question his veracity in those initial interviews. Whatever the case phone records and Caseys constant texting will verify where she was before George left.

I hear and understand your logic here. Maybe I'm just being a contrarian. He got that shirt right on the money, but the shorts are the ones that she wore at Mt. Dora and wouldn't be easily mistaken for a denim skirt. I don't have a clue what happened to George or when, but I've just always felt that he was lying about the 16th. Guess there's really no explaining it. I've always thought Cindy was a harridan too, from the time of the 911 calls. :shrug:

I don't really expect LE to come out with particulars on any of G&C's statements that are half-truths or whole lies.

[deacon]

I hear and understand your logic here. Maybe I'm just being a contrarian. He got that shirt right on the money, but the shorts are the ones that she wore at Mt. Dora and wouldn't be easily mistaken for a denim skirt. I don't have a clue what happened to George or when, but I've just always felt that he was lying about the 16th. Guess there's really no explaining it. I've always thought Cindy was a harridan too, from the time of the 911 calls. :shrug:

I don't really expect LE to come out with particulars on any of G&C's statements that are half-truths or whole lies.

I agree, that would cause way too much confusion.:beer:

[Nawny]

I see that Brad Conway was on the Today Show this morning discuss the autopsy report. I have been unable to download it. For people who didn't want it released because of the attention it would draw, they are certainly doing a lot of yacking about it! They said they wanted the medical examiner to discuss the findings no one else, so why is Brad Conway talking so much about it and bringing attention to it? http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-talk024.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)


Because he's BATZ now from hanging around with the A's.
:(

[mu8shark]

I agree, that would cause way too much confusion.:beer: No I would not expect it either in public or in the press, but in the interviews none of them question him about this as if they do not believe him and maybe it was too early for them to do it. . How can you all tell what she had on her at Mt Dora as far as shorts or a jean skirt? Can you even see her bottoms? I guess the difference is I do not believe in Georges supposed motive to lie, the big fight on the 15th. . That there was this huge fight the neighbors all heard on the 15th. There may have been but Casey is the only source for the fight and she told Lee and Jesse and I do not necessarily believe her. Also LP was wrong , there is no interview by a neighbor who puts a fight on that exact day or even close. The only dated fight in a neighbor interview is around May. I have to admit that a lot of LP theory are tainted for me since the fingerprint on the duct tape lie. Remember he theorized at one point she was killed in the parking lot of a motel or some such nonsense. so I admit to the fact that he believes it was the 15th makes me believe just the opposite. LOL. Also on NG they said he got the shorts somewhat right, he said she had on patterned shorts. Did he? I need to go back and look at the interview where he described it exactly but I took PDF off here to conserve valuable space. Anyone know what he said exactly?

[lorettalockhorn]

Because he's BATZ now from hanging around with the A's.
:(

They're toxic I tell you!

Jose=Baez
Brad=Batz
Casey=Bratz
G&C=Buttz(on the thing)

[deacon]

They're toxic I tell you!

Jose=Baez
Brad=Batz
Casey=Bratz
G&C=Buttz(on the thing)

You know, the living one I feel sorry for right now is the Honorable Stan Strickland. He must eat a dozen tumms every day looking foward to this trial.

[Nawny]

I tried to call NG with the question, but thw line always rings busy. I think I will contact a few of the local reporters and let them ask the right people the question. :D

Gator

Has CASEY'S LAW been put into effect yet? That friken demon! Baez must need an exorcism by now!:mad:

[deacon]

Has CASEY'S LAW been put into effect yet? That friken demon! Baez must need an exorcism by now!:mad:

I haven't seen his head spinning around yet. Just his words.

[BeastofBears]

I haven't seen his head spinning around yet. Just his words.

At least the pea soup will coordinate with you-know-who!

[mu8shark]

[QUOTE=BeastofBears;9199107]Are you serious? He said that? If the body had been moved and staged months after death, then I would expect adhesive on the bones, not otherwise. I guess this is one other defense theory problem, from their own expert...imo.

As for your last point, my theory is Anthony infighting. Not that they've ever shown any sign of that kind of thing or anything...[/QUOTE Exactly if it was planted later after all that water one would expect lots of adhesive not less. Their expert is out there on this one.

[SaraSidle]

Did I miss something or are we sure Caylee was sedated prior to the masking tape? O/T nice avatar Nawny. missed you.............sara

[deacon]

Did I miss something or are we sure Caylee was sedated prior to the masking tape? O/T nice avatar Nawny. missed you.............sara

No, we are not sure. However, there was no tape on her hands or arms. That would lead me to believe she was sedated or she would have pulled the tape at least enough to be able to breathe. That is why I think the chloroform was used. Then the tape over the mouth and nose.

[Nawny]

I completely respectfully disagree. I looked at the video of her with Great grandpa and she has on a blue shirt not a pink shirt. They found the pink shirt at the scene., not the blue shirt. While of course they could of changed her clothes on the 15th, it is more likely to me now that George is not lying and remember in the beginning he was trying to be helpful and honest in the interviews. According to NG and JVM on Friday George got the shirt complete with glittler completely right. I think she was killed on the 16th and for sure Casey came back to the house to do it in private. The phone records put her there after George left. I also think eventualy the police will put Casey in the house in the morning before George left with the phone records. I think it is telling that at no point do the police or FBI contradict George's account. Also while you may throw some clothes and toys in a bag Casey would not have left on the 15th with the trash bags, tape, laundry bag etc, she came back for those and killed her. JMO

Okay... I didn't realize they had phone records putting her back in the house after G left. THe only thing that makes me believe she killed her in the house is the heart sticker. I'm sure she didn't kill her in the car and just happen to have a heart sticker in her pocket. Though I've imagined her sticking her in the trunk and chloroforming her, then sticking the tape on her. I forgot where they found the tape.. was it in the car?

[mu8shark]

Okay... I didn't realize they had phone records putting her back in the house after G left. THe only thing that makes me believe she killed her in the house is the heart sticker. I'm sure she didn't kill her in the car and just happen to have a heart sticker in her pocket. Though I've imagined her sticking her in the trunk and chloroforming her, then sticking the tape on her. I forgot where they found the tape.. was it in the car? One thing I don't recall or haven't seen is where the phone records put her on the night of the 15th or in the am when they were supposedly having breakfast at 7:30. If anyone has seen that it would be really, really interesting. I know that the phone records put her in the house or right there like around 2 pm if I recall, but before where are those records from earlier in the day ?. PS Making custard pie now won't be ready though for hours.

[applesandorange]

Well, the photos aren't released to the public because of the Earnheardt Law (and that's okay fine by me), but wouldn't you think the defense has access and the defense expert would look at the evidence before commenting? :confused::rolleyes:

And does Brad Conway try to make the Ants sound like martyrs or what?


Us not seeing the photos is fine by me too. I agree that the expert should have reviewed them before making a statement on it. This just goes to show the defense has nothing credible to use.

[Nawny]

Did I miss something or are we sure Caylee was sedated prior to the masking tape? O/T nice avatar Nawny. missed you.............sara

Thank you Sara.. I missed you too! We all did! :)

:seeya:


Seems the jury is out on whether or not she was sedated prior to the duct tape.

[mu8shark]

Okay... I didn't realize they had phone records putting her back in the house after G left. THe only thing that makes me believe she killed her in the house is the heart sticker. I'm sure she didn't kill her in the car and just happen to have a heart sticker in her pocket. Though I've imagined her sticking her in the trunk and chloroforming her, then sticking the tape on her. I forgot where they found the tape.. was it in the car? Here is the record of her phone calls on the 16th and I am correcting myself i had thought the first record was around 2 pm but it is around 3 pm and I am almost positive they said it was from her parents home that most of these calls were made until about 5 pm. Now here is what is really interesting, on the 18th look at that flurry of calls. Remember what was happening that day, the whole deal with the shovel and backing her car in. You can be sure she wanted to make sure Cindy or George was not home when she did all that!3:03pm - George Anthony's Cell (67 min to the next call) *Casey's father
4:10pm - Cindy Anthony's Work (1 minutes to the next call) *Casey's mother
4:11pm - Cindy Anthony's Cell (2 minutes to the next call) *
4:13pm - Cindy Anthony's Cell (1 minutes to the next call) *
4:14pm - Cindy Anthony's Work (5 minutes to the next call) *
4:19pm - Anthony Lazzaro (2 minutes to the next call) *Casey's Boyfriend
4:21pm - Jesse Grund (3 minutes to the next call) *Casey's ex-Boyfriend
4:24pm - Cindy Anthony's Cell (8 minutes to the next call) *Casey's mother
6:32pm - The Anthony Home (1 minute to the next call) *Casey's mother and father's house
6:33pm - Voicemail (33 minutes to the next call) *
7:06pm - The Anthony Home (14 minutes to the next call) *Casey's mother and father's house
7:20pm - Amy Huizenga (? anymore calls after that) *Casey's close friend at the time

June 17th's Tuesday's records were not revealed


June 18th Casey's Call Log

12:33pm - The Anthony Home
12:34pm - Cindy Anthony's Cell
12:35pm - The Anthony Home
12:36pm - George Anthony Cell
1:09pm - Cindy Anthony's Cell
1:11pm - The Anthony Home

[Nawny]

Goodnight all!:seeya: Weebles will show up early tomorrow! We have work to do! :)

[applesandorange]

No, we are not sure. However, there was no tape on her hands or arms. That would lead me to believe she was sedated or she would have pulled the tape at least enough to be able to breathe. That is why I think the chloroform was used. Then the tape over the mouth and nose.


I never thought of that. Good point Decon. I guess I thought like Nawny. Thought she chloroformed her and duct taped Caylee's mouth so she couldn't cry if she woke up in the trunk. Another thing I thought of was very ugly... Could she have duct taped her mouth and held her arms down. Like if Caylee was throwing a tantrum could she have duct taped her mouth to try to make her quiet and held her down to try to keep her quiet and still? I know that's a terrible thought. After seeing Casey's rage in that one video from prison I wouldn't put it by her though.

[SaraSidle]

I never thought of that. Good point Decon. I guess I thought like Nawny. Thought she chloroformed her and duct taped Caylee's mouth so she couldn't cry if she woke up in the trunk. Another thing I thought of was very ugly... Could she have duct taped her mouth and held her arms down. Like if Caylee was throwing a tantrum could she have duct taped her mouth to try to make her quiet and held her down to try to keep her quiet and still? I know that's a terrible thought. After seeing Casey's rage in that one video from prison I wouldn't put it by her though.

I thought the same thing a&e but I think it would have taken too long. good thinking Deacon. However if her hands and feet were tied there is no evidence of that. I still think with the decomp in the backyard and trunk and the phone calls that day something happened and Casey was already trying to establish an accident or story of what happened. She was also panicky and or raging and not ready to lie to 911. just my thinking tho. imo sara

[mu8shark]

I never thought of that. Good point Decon. I guess I thought like Nawny. Thought she chloroformed her and duct taped Caylee's mouth so she couldn't cry if she woke up in the trunk. Another thing I thought of was very ugly... Could she have duct taped her mouth and held her arms down. Like if Caylee was throwing a tantrum could she have duct taped her mouth to try to make her quiet and held her down to try to keep her quiet and still? I know that's a terrible thought. After seeing Casey's rage in that one video from prison I wouldn't put it by her though. But if you are just trying to shut her up and accidentally kill her why would you put tape over her nose. They said there was tape over her nose as well. I believe it was premeditated and she chloroformed her to keep her from struggling when she suffocated her. After all what would stop this girl from yanking that tape off. Casey would have to hold her down and struggle and all and Casey is too lazy for that. Also as I said I can see Casey telling herself how humane she is to put her out before suffocating her. She researched chloroform for a reason and I think it was to subdue her and make it easy. This will sound terrible but I can almost see Casey knocking her out and then putting on that tape to suffocate her and going in the other room to fix herself a sandwich or turn on the tv. I think she is that cold.

[old_soul]

On the first, yes that is what I think too. However, some seem to think she was talking about Caylee and it was only 2 weeks after she disappeared. Funny to have a "memorial" tatto if you child is missing. However, if she knew your child was dead already then the tatoo then it is a memorial.

On the second one, that is what one of the state lawyers aske him. How many times they had been on shows to discuss the death of their grand daughter.

When they get on the stand in the real trial they better not make themselves out an assonthething. If they do they may get their hand spanked. Of course some of them maybe use to being spanked.

:eek:

I always wondered about those bears....http://i39.tinypic.com/2dvn4b6.jpg

Actually there was lots of things I wondered about, but I'm NOT going there...
http://i41.tinypic.com/2mo4ktc.jpg...or there!



deacon, I daresay you are goading me to do this...........

[applesandorange]

But if you are just trying to shut her up and accidentally kill her why would you put tape over her nose. They said there was tape over her nose as well. I believe it was premeditated and she chloroformed her to keep her from struggling when she suffocated her. After all what would stop this girl from yanking that tape off. Casey would have to hold her down and struggle and all and Casey is too lazy for that. Also as I said I can see Casey telling herself how humane she is to put her out before suffocating her. She researched chloroform for a reason and I think it was to subdue her and make it easy. This will sound terrible but I can almost see Casey knocking her out and then putting on that tape to suffocate her and going in the other room to fix herself a sandwich or turn on the tv. I think she is that cold.


You make sense. Why so much tape though? That was done out of rage. I agree Casey is lazy and I could see her just as you describe, going into another room and letting her die. I just question why so much tape?

[applesandorange]

I thought the same thing a&e but I think it would have taken too long. good thinking Deacon. However if her hands and feet were tied there is no evidence of that. I still think with the decomp in the backyard and trunk and the phone calls that day something happened and Casey was already trying to establish an accident or story of what happened. She was also panicky and or raging and not ready to lie to 911. just my thinking tho. imo sara


Yes, the movement of the body says she panicked. Why else would she move the body around so much? If she wanted to make it look like an accident why not just throw her in the pool and leave the ladder there? She put the tape on out of rage. I'm sure she was planning to kill Caylee but I'm not sure she ment for it to happen when it did.

[lighthousedazy]

Just started watching NG and I think they stated the tat is on the upper shoulder. Kinda surprised that there isn't already a photo of it from the arrest or booking.

HAHAHA Nancy's having a tantrum at Peter Odum. Musta been a great vacay! :hat: Saw her touting her new book on The View when I switched over to watch Jeopardy this morning.So funny, She kept telling them to put the camera back on the TH's. At 11 minutes til the hour, NG wished my Mom's neice Mrs Lois B a happy 82nd birthday, a fan of the show. So sweet. :rose:

I thought the tat of the 'beautiful life' was on the lower back. First I have heard of the shoulder one. :confused:

[deacon]

On the first, yes that is what I think too. However, some seem to think she was talking about Caylee and it was only 2 weeks after she disappeared. Funny to have a "memorial" tatto if you child is missing. However, if she knew your child was dead already then the tatoo then it is a memorial.

On the second one, that is what one of the state lawyers aske him. How many times they had been on shows to discuss the death of their grand daughter.

When they get on the stand in the real trial they better not make themselves out an assonthething. If they do they may get their hand spanked. Of course some of them maybe use to being spanked.

:eek:

I always wondered about those bears....http://i39.tinypic.com/2dvn4b6.jpg

Actually there was lots of things I wondered about, but I'm NOT going there...
http://i41.tinypic.com/2mo4ktc.jpg...or there!



deacon, I daresay you are goading me to do this...........

I plead the fith. and not a liquid fith either.:beer:

[deacon]

Yes, the movement of the body says she panicked. Why else would she move the body around so much? If she wanted to make it look like an accident why not just throw her in the pool and leave the ladder there? She put the tape on out of rage. I'm sure she was planning to kill Caylee but I'm not sure she ment for it to happen when it did.

I think she realized she was in over her head. You see, I think she had no clue when she was planning what would be required once she carried out the first part of the plan. Most of her planning for stealing money from other people she sort of got away with it even thought she didn't have a plan for AFTER the crime. Most killers plan the killing out but not what happens afterward. Where do I hide the body? What do I tell people when they find out the person is dead? What do I say when they start asking questions? What do i do when they smell the body in my trunk? How do I explain not calling the cops?

The last one glares to me. She planned this but didn't do a good job, thank goodness, of planning her actions after the killing. She was too busy wanting to party hardy instead of acting like a concerned mother. The kidnapping plan would have worked if she had put more thought into it. Hid the body and then claimed Caylee was kidnapped.

Not so smart.

[Native Alien]

I think she realized she was in over her head. You see, I think she had no clue when she was planning what would be required once she carried out the first part of the plan. Most of her planning for stealing money from other people she sort of got away with it even thought she didn't have a plan for AFTER the crime. Most killers plan the killing out but not what happens afterward. Where do I hide the body? What do I tell people when they find out the person is dead? What do I say when they start asking questions? What do i do when they smell the body in my trunk? How do I explain not calling the cops?

The last one glares to me. She planned this but didn't do a good job, thank goodness, of planning her actions after the killing. She was too busy wanting to party hardy instead of acting like a concerned mother. The kidnapping plan would have worked if she had put more thought into it. Hid the body and then claimed Caylee was kidnapped.

Not so smart.

I sort of agree with you deacon. I don't think she planned this as well as she thought. Once Caylee was deceased, then Casey panicked. She was in a hurry and just wanted to get everything over and done with.

[Nawny]

Interesting that the owner of the tattoo parlor says that Casey told the artist that she would ring Caylee in on the following Saturday. Um, doesn't that conflict with Timer 55???

Amazing just how FOS this family is. I guess we can suppose that Zanny told Casey to get Bella Vita permanently inscribed. :rolleyes: Just saw the tape again of George imploring the judge not to let Caylee's memory be tarnished. HUH? How does the truth tarnish? I'm thinking when it comes to it being "all for Caylee" he means varnish. In the worst sense of the word.

Morning Loretta :seeya:

I agree with you regarding the Timer55 not fitting in with the tattoo guy's remark. They can get her on that and smash that lie to smithereens. But the A's will call him a liar, I'm supposing. Everyone who has something to say that will show liar's guilt will be pissed on by them.
Can the A's take the 5th at trial? Will they?

George's drama in court the other day was totally sickening. I hate that he brought the framed picture of Caylee. It reminded me of how in acting school, to get acting students to cry they tell them to think of the saddest moment in their lives... Further more, The child wasn't killed by a stranger so why the picture? What does it prove? It proves to me that they want to evoke sympathy from the court. It didn't. When are those people going to stand up and get some class? They are making fools of themselves.

[Nawny]

You make sense. Why so much tape though? That was done out of rage. I agree Casey is lazy and I could see her just as you describe, going into another room and letting her die. I just question why so much tape?

I also wonder why so much tape. Did they have the dogs in the house? Wouldn't the dogs have picked up death in the house? Perhaps they still could. (?) They're pretty incredible creatures and its been said that they can pick up a scent shortly after death, even if the body was removed. No?

[Nawny]

Yes, the movement of the body says she panicked. Why else would she move the body around so much? If she wanted to make it look like an accident why not just throw her in the pool and leave the ladder there? She put the tape on out of rage. I'm sure she was planning to kill Caylee but I'm not sure she ment for it to happen when it did.

Maybe liar did panic and couldn't call 911 because the tape was already on her face and she knew even if she ripped it off, they'd see residue and put her in cuffs ASAP. I'm also sure she planned it or at least fantasized it for a long time. Like Coleman did.

[deacon]

Morning Loretta :seeya:

I agree with you regarding the Timer55 not fitting in with the tattoo guy's remark. They can get her on that and smash that lie to smithereens. But the A's will call him a liar, I'm supposing. Everyone who has something to say that will show liar's guilt will be pissed on by them.
Can the A's take the 5th at trial? Will they?

George's drama in court the other day was totally sickening. I hate that he brought the framed picture of Caylee. It reminded me of how in acting school, to get acting students to cry they tell them to think of the saddest moment in their lives... Further more, The child wasn't killed by a stranger so why the picture? What does it prove? It proves to me that they want to evoke sympathy from the court. It didn't. When are those people going to stand up and get some class? They are making fools of themselves.

What is that. (really dumb here.)

[Gatordog]

Since the murder trial is going to take a long time before it comes to court, the state wants to proceed with the fraud trial. This is excellent. One of the reasons Baez gave for her deserving bail was that she has no criminal history. If she's found guilty, perhaps they can use the criminal history in the penalty phase of the murder trial.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/orl-bk-casey-anthony-fraud-trial062209,0,6615801.story

[Gatordog]

What is that. (really dumb here.)


Timer 55 is the ridiculous story that the Liar came up with stating that "Zanny was going to return Caylee in 55 days" which would have been her birthday.

Gator

[BeastofBears]

But if you are just trying to shut her up and accidentally kill her why would you put tape over her nose. They said there was tape over her nose as well. I believe it was premeditated and she chloroformed her to keep her from struggling when she suffocated her. After all what would stop this girl from yanking that tape off. Casey would have to hold her down and struggle and all and Casey is too lazy for that. Also as I said I can see Casey telling herself how humane she is to put her out before suffocating her. She researched chloroform for a reason and I think it was to subdue her and make it easy. This will sound terrible but I can almost see Casey knocking her out and then putting on that tape to suffocate her and going in the other room to fix herself a sandwich or turn on the tv. I think she is that cold.

imo, no way a 2 year old can get a bunch of duct tape in multiple layers off the face, especially if its in the hair so tight it was still around the head after that long in the wilderness. Good duct tape, real duct tape, which I think this is, is designed to not come off. I really think the killer put the tape over the face and watched her writhe. I really hope not, but I really think so.

[BeastofBears]

Morning Loretta :seeya:

I agree with you regarding the Timer55 not fitting in with the tattoo guy's remark. They can get her on that and smash that lie to smithereens. But the A's will call him a liar, I'm supposing. Everyone who has something to say that will show liar's guilt will be pissed on by them.
Can the A's take the 5th at trial? Will they?

George's drama in court the other day was totally sickening. I hate that he brought the framed picture of Caylee. It reminded me of how in acting school, to get acting students to cry they tell them to think of the saddest moment in their lives... Further more, The child wasn't killed by a stranger so why the picture? What does it prove? It proves to me that they want to evoke sympathy from the court. It didn't. When are those people going to stand up and get some class? They are making fools of themselves.

Did you notice at one point he turned the picture so it was not facing him and Cindy, but aimed sideways at the camera so they could get a good shot, imo?

[deacon]

Timer 55 is the ridiculous story that the Liar came up with stating that "Zanny was going to return Caylee in 55 days" which would have been her birthday.

Gator

*lightbulb comes on* Thanks. Be careful what lies you tell they may come back to bite you in the butt.

[shadydaisy]

Did you notice at one point he turned the picture so it was not facing him and Cindy, but aimed sideways at the camera so they could get a good shot, imo?

I did notice that! What was that for? Is there anyone left who does not know what Caylee looked like? C&G are so far gone in to la la land they will never find their way back. JMO

[Marian Paroo]

So, with GvS doing politics, and this being a day that I can't watch her before I go to work upless I get up at 5 a.m. local time to catch the live showing, I've been depending on you guys and on the Nancy Grace transcripts for my news.

Anyway, I see that the prosecution wants to get a picture of the Beautiful Life tat, and somewhere along the line the phrase "ugly coping" came up.

Who was it that first used the term? Miss Anthony's defense team?

I searched the site of the National Library of Medicine in Maryland, the site of the Mayo Clinic, top online resources such as Psychnet, Psychiatry Online, DSM, and MD Consult, and guess what?

"Ugly Coping" always came up zilch...

Suprise, suprise, surprise in the words of Pvt. Pyle.

[One2Snoop]

Bump for Marian.....

Does 'Ugly Coping' Explain Casey's Partying?
Baez Cites Case In Discussing Anthony Defense

POSTED: 10:19 pm EDT April 28, 2009
UPDATED: 5:24 am EDT April 29, 2009

ORLANDO, Fla. -- When Casey Anthony goes on trial for her life, many legal experts say the toughest part of defending her will be explaining her behavior after her 2-year-old daughter, Caylee, disappeared.

They are images of Anthony partying days after Caylee went missing. In surveillance, she is seen buying beer and bras with money investigators say she stole.

How does Anthony explain her lack of concern, grief or remorse?

"She has a very compelling reason for her actions," her attorney Jose Baez said in an exclusive interview with WESH 2 reporter Bob Kealing.

Baez declined to be more specific.

"As much as I'd like to say it, that's as much as I can say right now," Baez said.

Anthony is charged with first-degree murder in connection with the death of her Caylee, whose remains were found in Orange County woods not far from her family home.

Watch The Story

Baez, however, did refer to a case that could provide insight into his defense.

In 2002, Cynthia Sommer lost her husband, Todd, a healthy Marine stationed in San Diego.

Sommer's attorney Allen Bloom said Todd Sommer was “originally evaluated to have died by natural causes, a sudden cardiac arrest from an arrhythmia of the heart.”

Two months after her husband died, friends told investigators Sommer bought breast implants with the insurance money, started partying and sleeping around.

Cynthia Sommer was charged with murder. Her attorney argued that Sommer's apparent lack of remorse was a condition known as "ugly coping." The phrase was coined by a Columbia University behaviorist to describe people who appear to grieve abnormally.

According to Cynthia Sommer's attorney, prosecutors were willing to overlook problems with their evidence, because they mistook her so-called ugly coping as evidence she had no remorse and was guilty of murder.

Sommer's attorney finally proved her husband's death was not motivated by her greed. After two years Cynthia Sommer walked out of prison.

http://www.wesh.com/news/19317898/detail.html

Could Accident Explain Casey's 'Ugly Coping'?
Attorney Looks At Possible Anthony Defense

POSTED: 10:19 pm EDT April 28, 2009
UPDATED: 3:52 pm EDT April 30, 2009

ORLANDO, Fla. -- Prosecutors in the case against Casey Anthony better be prepared for her to take the stand and claim her daughter's death was an accident.

That's the reaction of an Orlando defense attorney to a WESH 2 special report on a possible explanation for Anthony's odd behavior after her daughter Caylee disappeared. (Details on that report are below).

To best use this so-called "ugly coping" defense, that attorney says Anthony will have to tell the jury the traumatic event that sparked her odd behavior and lies was Caylee's accidental death.

Caylee Anthony's exact cause of death has not been determined. And defense attorney Richard Hornsby said that fact leaves the door open for Casey Anthony to claim she knew about Caylee's death but did not kill her.

" First, you put her on the stand and say it was an accident," Hornsby said. "After traumatic events, people act strangely and not everybody acts the same. I don't think Jose Baez will have trouble getting someone to testify to that general principle.

To make this strategy work, Hornsby says Baez will have to show Anthony was reacting to a traumatic event. A tragic accident would be that event. And Anthony could use the ugly coping concept to admit she partied, and told a string of lies. And at the same time explain he way OUT of a capitol murder charge.

Hornsby said he does not think Casey can successfully use ugly coping as a reason for her actions if she continues to claim a babysitter no one has ever seen kidnapped Caylee.

http://www.wesh.com/news/19317898/detail.html

[One2Snoop]

Timer 55 is the ridiculous story that the Liar came up with stating that "Zanny was going to return Caylee in 55 days" which would have been her birthday.

Gator

Wasn't it also used as a password?

[Marian Paroo]

One2Snoop -- I remember that case.

And the use of the term "ugly coping."

Guess it didn't get into a published paper, because if it did it would have come up in the Psychnet search. :shrug:

[Gatordog]

I hear and understand your logic here. Maybe I'm just being a contrarian. He got that shirt right on the money, but the shorts are the ones that she wore at Mt. Dora and wouldn't be easily mistaken for a denim skirt. I don't have a clue what happened to George or when, but I've just always felt that he was lying about the 16th. Guess there's really no explaining it. I've always thought Cindy was a harridan too, from the time of the 911 calls. :shrug:

I don't really expect LE to come out with particulars on any of G&C's statements that are half-truths or whole lies.

Perhaps they just changed her shirt after she arrived home or sometime after the videotape. She could have had icecream and dripped some on her shirt causing someone to change it. JMO.

Gator

[BeastofBears]

Perhaps they just changed her shirt after she arrived home or sometime after the videotape. She could have had icecream and dripped some on her shirt causing someone to change it. JMO.

Gator

Maybe George is the one who dressed her.

[Gatordog]

Wasn't it also used as a password?

A password or countdown program or something to do with the computer. But yes, you are right, some kind of computer thing.

Gator

[Amy]

Thanks for the heads up. Try this:

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/31484912#31484912

Get a load of what the defense expert says.

For Spitz to say "there is no evidence of murder" is like Janey Wientraub saying the same about Laci Peterson. Like, Laci Peterson walked the however many miles to the marina (her car was @ home, no one 'fessed up to giving her a ride) and then just walked into the waters of the marina until she drowned. I don't really think little Caylee Anthony could 1) walk to the place where her body was found, 2) manage to put duct tape over her own mouth (heck, she couldn't get it off the roll, let alone tear it, or cut it with scissors,) 3) manage to get herself into the garbage bags and laundry bag. The only other way for this to have happened is---MURDER!!!! :( Heck, she couldn't even have accidentally killed herself w/the duct tape--for the reasons listed above. A two y/o child, even if she is almost 3 can't do the duct tape thing, heck, there's a lot of adults who can't handle duct tape!!!!

And, of course, DR Spitz when YOU observed Caylee's remains, the duct tape was not in place. That is why the ME provided pictures and a report--because OBVIOUSLY the duct tape was on the remains when the ME first examined them. Dr G has no pony in this parade. Her report was BEFORE there was id of the remains, so there would have been no reason for her to try to make the report fit whatever anyone thinks Casey Anthony did to her daughter.

[Amy]

Interesting that the owner of the tattoo parlor says that Casey told the artist that she would ring Caylee in on the following Saturday. Um, doesn't that conflict with Timer 55???

Amazing just how FOS this family is. I guess we can suppose that Zanny told Casey to get Bella Vita permanently inscribed. :rolleyes: Just saw the tape again of George imploring the judge not to let Caylee's memory be tarnished. HUH? How does the truth tarnish? I'm thinking when it comes to it being "all for Caylee" he means varnish. In the worst sense of the word.

Releasing the autopsy report isn't going to tarnish Caylee's memory in any way, @ least for most of the people who have followed this case even slightly. When I think of Caylee, I don't visualize bones and duct tape, I visualize her in any number of the photos we have seen of her--like reading the book or sitting on GG's lap. Or dancing in the front room, sitting in the car seat with that hat. I imagine that, for most people, when Caylee's name comes up, that is pretty much what runs thru their minds, too.

IMO, the A's are worried about their and/or Casey's images being tarnished. Regardless of what the A's attorney says. And, hey, if they don't want to hear about the report being discussed, don't watch NG or JVM or any of those shows. If someone on the street wants to talk to them about it--just say they aren't discussing the report. Or, stay home where people won't recognize them and try to talk to them about it (and they are recognizable by their own actions and tv appearances over the last year. If I saw Nevaeh's grandmother today, I wouldn't recognize her, cuz I haven't seen her ad nauseum on the tv.)

[Amy]

I hear and understand your logic here. Maybe I'm just being a contrarian. He got that shirt right on the money, but the shorts are the ones that she wore at Mt. Dora and wouldn't be easily mistaken for a denim skirt. I don't have a clue what happened to George or when, but I've just always felt that he was lying about the 16th. Guess there's really no explaining it. I've always thought Cindy was a harridan too, from the time of the 911 calls. :shrug:

I don't really expect LE to come out with particulars on any of G&C's statements that are half-truths or whole lies.

The shirt might be different from the one in the video--perhaps when they went to Grandma Shirley's and had chili, she spilt some on her shirt, and, a clean one put on @ some time. That wouldn't necessarily be something any one of them would include in their reports, as a toddler getting her shirt dirty is a fairly common occurance. IMO Could be, by the time George saw her that night, as Casey was storming out of the house, she had a different shirt.

[BeastofBears]

Releasing the autopsy report isn't going to tarnish Caylee's memory in any way, @ least for most of the people who have followed this case even slightly. When I think of Caylee, I don't visualize bones and duct tape, I visualize her in any number of the photos we have seen of her--like reading the book or sitting on GG's lap. Or dancing in the front room, sitting in the car seat with that hat. I imagine that, for most people, when Caylee's name comes up, that is pretty much what runs thru their minds, too.

IMO, the A's are worried about their and/or Casey's images being tarnished. Regardless of what the A's attorney says. And, hey, if they don't want to hear about the report being discussed, don't watch NG or JVM or any of those shows. If someone on the street wants to talk to them about it--just say they aren't discussing the report. Or, stay home where people won't recognize them and try to talk to them about it (and they are recognizable by their own actions and tv appearances over the last year. If I saw Nevaeh's grandmother today, I wouldn't recognize her, cuz I haven't seen her ad nauseum on the tv.)

I didn't like that comment when made, about it tarnishing her image. It's not like SHE put duct tape on anybody! It's not like the autopsy of Laci Peterson and Connor tarnished their images, just Scott's. It doesn't even cross my mind to tarnish HER image. moo.

[old_soul]

I didn't like that comment when made, about it tarnishing her image. It's not like SHE put duct tape on anybody! It's not like the autopsy of Laci Peterson and Connor tarnished their images, just Scott's. It doesn't even cross my mind to tarnish HER image. moo.

:rolleyes:Imagine that. What comes out of their mouths sometimes...:mad:

Ignorance. Does he mean.... Like he and his wife are trying to wipe the tarnish off his daughter's image?!

NOTHING can tarnish Caylee's image! Beautiful little chicken nugget, she was innocent of everything in her life. She even loved string beans, LOL.

We all know who Caylee is and that is how we will remember her...we have seen hundreds of pictures to remind us...but.....he might want to have a talking to his daughter though, about her pictures of bones and skulls and death...which lead straight to that beautiful innocent angel!

Talk about tarnished and varnished images...show daddy your new tat, CMA! Tell daddy what it means...

:flamemad:

[Gatordog]

I didn't like that comment when made, about it tarnishing her image. It's not like SHE put duct tape on anybody! It's not like the autopsy of Laci Peterson and Connor tarnished their images, just Scott's. It doesn't even cross my mind to tarnish HER image. moo.

A few people are tarnishing her memory but is certainly isn't us! :no:

Gator

[Gatordog]

Brad Conway stated today that the Liar and her parents have communicated by letter through Baez. I didn't think attorneys were allowed to deliver inmate mail. I thought all mail had to be read by jail personnel. Is baez breaking the law? Where is that attorney, Peaches, when we need her?

If anyone knows if this transfer of mail via attorney is legal, let us know.

Gator

http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-happy057.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

I sent an email to a WESH investigative reporter, Michelle Meredith, and asked this question. She sent me an email back and said it was a good question and she was going to look into it.

Gator

[One2Snoop]

http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-happy057.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

I sent an email to a WESH investigative reporter, Michelle Meredith, and asked this question. She sent me an email back and said it was a good question and she was going to look into it.

Gator

:beer:

[SaraSidle]

:beer:

Nice Job Gator!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[deacon]

http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-happy057.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

I sent an email to a WESH investigative reporter, Michelle Meredith, and asked this question. She sent me an email back and said it was a good question and she was going to look into it.

Gator

:beer::rose:

[Native Alien]

It isn't legal I don't think, trying to remember....everything is to go thru the regular mail so that it can be checked for contraband and so that the jail has a record of who inmates are communicating with.

That whole co conspirators thing is what I am thinking.

This is just my opinion, I could be very wrong.

[SaraSidle]

It isn't legal I don't think, trying to remember....everything is to go thru the regular mail so that it can be checked for contraband and so that the jail has a record of who inmates are communicating with.

That whole co conspirators thing is what I am thinking.

This is just my opinion, I could be very wrong.

that makes sense. all the communication can be read by jail personnel first on incoming and outgoing. at least on active cases. IMO sara

[lorettalockhorn]

It isn't legal I don't think, trying to remember....everything is to go thru the regular mail so that it can be checked for contraband and so that the jail has a record of who inmates are communicating with.

That whole co conspirators thing is what I am thinking.

This is just my opinion, I could be very wrong.

That's how it sounds from reading the jail's website:

Sending Mail to Inmates
Rules & Requirements


Use complete committed name
Use complete jail and cell numbers
Use complete address
Example:
John Joseph Jones
00012345 M-4A
P.O. Box 4970
Orlando, FL 32802-4970

Sender must use their first and last name and complete return address
Send money orders with inmate's name and jail number. Do not send cash or personal checks.
Do not send stamps, envelopes, paper, pens, pencils, inappropriate pictures or polaroids, plastic cards, phone cards, stickers, lipstick marks on envelopes, or glued items.
No unnecessary writing or drawings are allowed on envelopes.
Books (paperback only - no hard covers), magazines, newspapers and religious materials must be mailed directly by the publisher or bookstore. Publications cannot contain any nudity.
All correspondence addressed to inmates must be sent by the United States Postal Service (USPS). Correspondence sent by other courier or delivery service will be refused.
If you have questions about inmate mail, call or email the mailroom:

Mail Room: (407) 836-3599 or (407) 836-0350 Email
The Mail Services Section provides, sorts and delivers mail to both inmates and employees. The mailroom processes more than 127 tons of mail annually for the department's more than 1,800 employees and more than 4,000 inmates. Each piece of inmate mail must be opened and checked for contraband items.

http://www.orangecountyfl.net/cms/BUSINESS/jail/InmateMail.htm

Maybe the Ants don't address their correspondence to Casey, so Baez has a legal out. :rolleyes: Sounds like Conway spoke out of school.

[lorettalockhorn]

No I would not expect it either in public or in the press, but in the interviews none of them question him about this as if they do not believe him and maybe it was too early for them to do it. . How can you all tell what she had on her at Mt Dora as far as shorts or a jean skirt? Can you even see her bottoms? I guess the difference is I do not believe in Georges supposed motive to lie, the big fight on the 15th. . That there was this huge fight the neighbors all heard on the 15th. There may have been but Casey is the only source for the fight and she told Lee and Jesse and I do not necessarily believe her. Also LP was wrong , there is no interview by a neighbor who puts a fight on that exact day or even close. The only dated fight in a neighbor interview is around May. I have to admit that a lot of LP theory are tainted for me since the fingerprint on the duct tape lie. Remember he theorized at one point she was killed in the parking lot of a motel or some such nonsense. so I admit to the fact that he believes it was the 15th makes me believe just the opposite. LOL. Also on NG they said he got the shorts somewhat right, he said she had on patterned shorts. Did he? I need to go back and look at the interview where he described it exactly but I took PDF off here to conserve valuable space. Anyone know what he said exactly?

It's easy for me to believe that there was a knockdown dragout every day of the worldwith that bunch, but from what I can tell, there is no witness to a blowup at the Ants on the 15th, so like you, I take it with a grain (read pillar) of salt. One of the THs on HLN/Prime News/JVM/NG said that the pink striped shorts found with Caylee's remains are likely the same as the Mt. Dora shorts and the same as the shorts in the vid where Casey and Caylee are playing in the floor. Don't know if that was a "leak" or what.

[BeastofBears]

http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-happy057.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

I sent an email to a WESH investigative reporter, Michelle Meredith, and asked this question. She sent me an email back and said it was a good question and she was going to look into it.

Gator

Yes, it IS a good question :beer:

[lorettalockhorn]

So funny, She kept telling them to put the camera back on the TH's. At 11 minutes til the hour, NG wished my Mom's neice Mrs Lois B a happy 82nd birthday, a fan of the show. So sweet. :rose:

I thought the tat of the 'beautiful life' was on the lower back. First I have heard of the shoulder one. :confused:

Aww Dazy, that is so neat! Happy Belated BDay to Lois B! http://i41.tinypic.com/21nljlx.jpg

I love the salute to lost soldiers NG does at the end of each show. A lot of people don't realize that during Viet Nam there was a body count on the front page of many daily papers. Really brings it home. :patriot: