Caylee Anthony Case Discussion Only

[Gatordog]

Hmmm, Interesting!

My problem with cause of death is the "duct tape" issue. If she out and out murdered her, then the tape would be unnecessary. It stands to reason that she duct taped her mouth to keep her quiet. So, your theory might be right on Deacon. I don't see her with the sticky hearts at her disposal during her travels, which brings me back to her house. This part confuses me. When and where did she tape her mouth and stick that heart on the duct tape? She couldn't possibly have done that deed after the body began to decompose, pray God!!!

(I get that she killed Caylee, what I don't get is where.) THe only thing that makes sense to me is that she stuffed her in the trunk so she could go party, Caylee died, she found her that way, but she taped her mouth, put the heart sticky on before she went pole dancing.

Otherwise, she slept at home that night after the fight with her very furious mother. I don't see it. She flew the coop that very night. IMO And George didn't hear a thing, or see a thing the next day.

A bunch of liars now defined, might be the last words of the closing argument.

IMO

My theory is the swimming pool or the bath tub. I think she taped her mouth so no one would hear the screaming and she drowned her. Probably, if I had to choose one location, it would be the pool. The ladder was left in, the dogs hit on two areas of possible decompostion. She drowned the child and then laid her on the ground while she went into the house to get the blanket and bags. She was running late and wanted to make sure her mother wasn't on the way home which is why she was makin the phone calls. She may have left Caylee's body there for a day or two and went back and borrowed the shovel to pick her up but ended up breaking the bag and getting the decomp fluids on her and in the car.

Gator

[Gatordog]

I wonder if she did her own research to run out of gas there, or if someone pointed out a good spot? Is this a well known crime spot? And also, check-cashing place, likely a place where people of limited means frequent.

I bet it was so blatant possible thieves thought it was a bait car. Hey maybe that's what's on the video...potential thieves sniffing around it and running away, therefor proving the smell was there prior to the tow yard...

Everyone knows the area. It is an area where illegals live, homeless live in the woods and there is one of those work by the day employment places very close by, which draws a big ex-con population daily. There is a Sam's Club just behind the Amscot. When I park there, I walk :chicken:

Gator

[Gatordog]

I think the reason the State held this is it was being enhanced, took a while.

I agree. In fact, I think I had heard it's on a digital loop so after two weeks or so, it might be taped over. Perhaps they have a way of getting the original film after it was taped over.

Gator

[Gatordog]

Oh please....I've had the honor of smelling both rotting potatoes and decomposing animal flesh - they are not at all similar. OK, maybe a lamb or groundhog are a child, but the smell is distinctive. Rotting potatoes may not smell pleasant but it's not nearly are potent as rotting flesh.

That Bozo is getting more bizarre everyday. A rotten potato is going to smell like a dead body? Yeah maybe if it was stuck in a corpse's mouth. Boy, if I'm ever in need of an attorney, I'll defend myself rather than have him try to defend me. :rolleyes:

Gator

[Gatordog]

That analogy kills me to this day! (And the Finger Family.) And interesting that former LE would say that. How often was he a puppet?

Everyday since he said "I DO" to Cindy. http://www.freesmileys.org/emoticons/emoticon-cartoon-013.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

Gator

[Gatordog]

This whole sick group is covering for each others collective asses and I agree that Lee knows more than he has ever said too. He might very well helped her dispose of Caylee's body, he knows that area of the woods too and what has always blown my mind was when Casey says to them that she felt Caylee was close to home? Hell, if that statement is about the only thing she did not lie about!! She was found three blocks from home and what I think is going to be a major impact on the jury is her reaction the day Caylee's remains were found. She freaked! She was gambling that no one would find her body and she hyperventilated and asked for anxiety meds and if that was not where Caylee was, she would not have batted an eye, she knew at that moment her life was over and seeing as she is so into herself, it hit her hard and I would imagine in her mind she probably hopes that her dream team will get her a pass and I am wondering exactly what Bozo has been filling her head with and I am glad that the DA is seeking the DP because when she is found guilty and she will be, I am confident, they have so much on her, half of it would get her the needle and when the judge sentences her to death, her life ain't worth a plugged nickel, it will be a waiting game till her last appeal expires and then the date will be set and you know the Gov will not grant her a stay because he would be committing political suicide and I say this because this whole county hates her and her family with a passion, her dancing the night away while Caylee is missing, that outraged everyone and for him or her to grant her a stay would piss off voters who want her dead which pretty much the whole state of FL, she is not walking out of prison, she will be going out in a body bag.

What three blocks? It's at the end of the street and make a right turn and walk about 200 feet. You don't even have to cross one street, just stay on the sidewalk and walk until the sidewalk ends and there you are.

[DrewBerry]

:) Good, I want you to laugh DrewB. Laughter gets us through the dark spots. :)

Thank you, Nawny! I agree with ya. Laughter and Light ease the pain. So many quick-witted people here I can always count on some good laughs! Also, the sun is actually visible today here in gray Seattle!! It's a good day!:)
DrewB

[One2Snoop]

This is almost too idiotic for me to summarize: http://www.wesh.com/news/19317898/detail.html

Jose Baez is intimating that he is going to go with the "ugly coping" defense. The partying, that was just a PTSD reaction to the stress of having her baby kidnapped.

Well, I'm glad that's been cleared up.

OMG! :eek: He can't be serious? There's no comparison between the Cynthia Sommer case and Casey Anthony, period. Baez, you're in serious trouble if this is all you have for your defense.

[lorettalockhorn]

Everyday since he said "I DO" to Cindy. http://www.freesmileys.org/emoticons/emoticon-cartoon-013.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

Gator

ITA that he is Cindy's Pinnochio, but I was actually referring to how many times Dumbarse Deputy George was a perp's puppet. Pretty disrespectful thing for former LE to saw to his miscreANT daughter.

[One2Snoop]

Casey Anthony case
Deputy objects to giving phone records to Casey Anthony's attorney

Sarah Lundy | Sentinel Staff Writer
1:21 PM EDT, April 29, 2009

Orange County Deputy Richard Cain joined others who don't want to turn over cell phone records to Casey Anthony's attorney, Jose Baez, according to paperwork filed in this morning.

The request violates Cain's right to privacy. His attorney, Stewart Cohen, also points to a Florida law the protects law enforcement officer's records of home addresses, telephone numbers and other details, according to the paperwork.

Anthony is charged with first-degree murder in the death of her daughter, Caylee Marie. The toddler's remains were found Dec. 11 in a wooded area less than a mile from the Anthony home.

Orange County meter reader Roy Kronk -- who discovered the remains -- also objected to Baez's request for Kronk's phone records.

Cain is in the process of being fired from the Orange County Sheriff's Office. He has appealed the sheriff's decision to fire him.

In December, Kronk told investigators he had called the tip in several times months before the discovery but the deputy who responded -- Cain -- was rude to him.

Cain did not immediately tell investigators he checked out Kronk's tip in August. Deputies found out about Cain's role only after Kronk alerted authorities. Cain was transferred in January to the supply division, where he will continue to work until the appeal is resolved.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/orl-bk-casey-anthony-cain-042909,0,2506583.story

[Amy]

This is almost too idiotic for me to summarize: http://www.wesh.com/news/19317898/detail.html

Jose Baez is intimating that he is going to go with the "ugly coping" defense. The partying, that was just a PTSD reaction to the stress of having her baby kidnapped.

Well, I'm glad that's been cleared up.

I haven't researched PTSD in depth, but I wonder how many cases of PTSD are documented where a "reaction to the stress" of a particular incident lasts for say, 31 days or so? The PTSD person doesn't, in 31 days, come into contact w/reality to remember the situation that caused the "break"--ESPECIALLY IN THIS CASE, WHERE SHE WAS IN CONTACT W/REALITY EVERY DAY (according to Cindy) WHEN HER MOTHER WOULD ASK EVERY TIME "WHERE IS CAYLEE? I WANT TO TALK TO CAYLEE." Nope, that never brought her back to reality? The "reaction" caused her to lie to her Mom for 31 days?

Methinks Jose better some up w/something better than this.

[Amy]

Hey Nawny, it makes me wonder if, when it does come to trial, will G&C wear the Caylee picture buttons in the courtroom? We know they will sit behind their Lying Daughter on the Defense side, so will they still have their buttons on for the jury to see?

Gator

A Caylee button, and perhaps a shamrock as secret coded message to Casey that they love and stand behind her? Or, a Caylee button AND a Casey button? Or a button with a loving pic of the two together?

I wonder how many green tops Cindy has in her wardrobe? So far, seems to be just a couple. Will she be able to "wear the green" for however many days (and weeks, possibly months) the trial will take? Wonder how come George isn't wearing green so much?

[lorettalockhorn]

That button should be on the gravestone, not to say Caylee was important enough for them to arrange a decent burial, GAWD forbid. Betcha Casey gets one! They're not even worthy of a button with that gorgeous child's picture on it. Gimmi that Haterade! I'll put it in the sippy cup, promise! :beer:

Tell me about this green issue. I've seen posts about it but I missed the reason they wear it. And if you will, tell me about the eyebrow thing Cindy has going on. :confused: They're almost in her eyes. She looks like guy... a little.. no? Not a 10, that's for sure!

You said a mouthful there, sister! I'll have what you're having.

http://i33.tinypic.com/6olj6q.jpg

PS Hayell no Cindy's no ten. She a one. A mean one!

http://i26.tinypic.com/2rw3zma.jpg

[eatcupcakes]

Sorry Cupcakes - I can't agree. First of all, where she left is in one of the highest crime intersections in east Orange County. There are multiple homeless camps there and a murder was commited on that corner just two months ago and a revenge fire was set just last week.

As far as the video, it can show that no one else tampered with the car while it was parked at Amscott. Remember Cindy said that perhaps someone else put a dead body in that car. I think the video will be important. The Amscott manager said it was there when she arrived at 7 ish in the morning. The Liar didn't call Tony to pick her up until hours later. Why? Did someone else drive her around for three hours?

I didn't know that is a high crime area, I thought it was not far from the Ants house. Well I hope the video does tell them something I guess it will show what time she dropped it off. And since the body would have to be out of the car by then itI will prove a more definate block of time in which Caylee died or was dumped after she was last seen with the car.

[deacon]

INDEEDY! PTSD is mainly unconscious acting out. People with that disorder disassociate from reality (like you say) and her reality was happening at Fushion, no less than before she killed her daughter. I agree wind bag Cindy was on the horn so much there was no forgetting about Caylee's whereabouts. Not thinking abut Caylee was a conscious decision IMO. Remember in jail when she saw the news about the remains when she said, "This isn't happening." She refused to engage her brain to it.

I suppose that was a mind trick she played with herself often. IMO She's a fkn nut.

And I would bet you they have videos of her on the occasions when other things were found that turned out to be nothing and when the search was on in Blanchard park and she had no reaction to it. Then when they announce something has been found in that particular place she goes off the deep end. Why? She knew exactly where Caylee was and these reactions could be taken as proof she knew where Caylee was. I wonder if bozo has thought of that or if that is the reason he is fighting the videos of her so hard. Anytime else one would expect a mother to be very upset when they think their childs remains were found but in the first cases she knew that wasn't her. The last case, she knew exactly what they had found.

[deacon]

"Let's see...support color for Casey...hmmn, support symbol, too. Ribbons are so cliche, don't you think? Pink is taken, red and purple are taken. Yellow? Oh, no, that's for the missing, haha...I know! Casey has that cute little tattoo on her tookus! That's perfect!" That couldn't have been the thought process, right?

Zanny who isn't the nanny's lawyer can show us the proper support symbol. Every time he pushes his glasses up! Oh, that was bad.:rolleyes:

[One2Snoop]

I've been looking for the latest document dump but haven't found anything yet - maybe tomorrow? :shrug:

Survey on Wesh2


Do you think the "ugly coping" defense could explain Casey Anthony's behavior after her daughter Caylee went missing?
Choice Votes Percentage of 2836 Votes
Yes 93 3%
No 2676 94%
Maybe 67 2%

http://www.wesh.com/news/19317898/detail.html

[One2Snoop]

It’s Time To Laugh
Cindy is the Grinch (Parody)
2009 April 29


http://bigmouthshelly.wordpress.com/2009/04/29/cindy-is-the-grinch-parody/

[One2Snoop]

Another one....


Is Casey really who we think she is? (Another parody)

January 28, 2009 by johninflorida

http://johninflorida.wordpress.com/2009/01/28/is-casey-really-who-we-think-she-is-another-parody/

[One2Snoop]

GUM, It’s all about GUM Parody

April 27, 2009 by johninflorida

http://johninflorida.wordpress.com/2009/04/27/gum-its-all-about-gum-parody/

[One2Snoop]

Casey Anthony case: Did you like the spins that 'Law & Order: Special Victims Unit' put on a familiar story?
posted by halboedeker on Apr 28, 2009 11:20:57 PM

What did you think of "Law & Order: Special Victims Unit" tonight?

The episode echoed familiar details from the Casey Anthony case. But halfway through the hour, the NBC drama went its own way and revealed a killer unfamiliar in the headline-making case.

SPOILER ALERT:

And the killer was ... the measles.

The "Law & Order" series borrow from famous cases, then insert their own twists. And the measles? That was a whopper.

A little girl, the Caylee-like figure, had died of exposure to the measles. Her mom -- the Casey-like figure played by Hilary Duff -- had buried her. Mom liked to party more than parent.

In an emotional jailhouse scene, Mom tearfully confided, "I killed my baby!"

A prosecutor revealed otherwise -- but not before forcing the mom to open up in the hope the young woman would grow up.

The mother agreed to 500 hours of community service and counseling.

The law drama took another twist when it went to court, and the defendant was a mother who had refused to have her little boy vaccinated. The state saw that mother's decision as the reason the Caylee figure had died.

The other mother was acquitted, even though the jury believed she should have had her son vaccinated.

Why? The jury saw the mom on trial as a better mother than the Casey figure.

The series ended with a scene that George and Cindy Anthony, Caylee's grandparents, should have avoided.

The dead little girl's grandfather committed suicide -- in front of the acquitted mother. George Anthony attempted suicide, and Cindy Anthony recently revealed she considered taking her life.

Did you find the episode satisfying or not?

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2009/04/case-anthony-case-did-you-like-the-spins-that-law-order-special-victims-unit-put-on-a-familiar-story.html

[One2Snoop]

Veteran Prosecutor To Helm Anthony Case

POSTED: Wednesday, April 29, 2009
UPDATED: 7:24 pm EDT April 29, 2009

The lead prosecutor in the case against Casey Anthony is familiar with high-profile murder cases as well as child neglect cases.

Assistant State Attorney Linda Drane-Burdick was tapped to prosecute the case when Anthony was charged with child neglect, but now, the 20-year veteran will take the lead in one of the most publicized murder trials in Florida history.

In order to preserve the integrity of the case, Drane-Burdick has repeatedly declined to talk about Anthony in public, but the experienced prosecutor is well known for her aggressive questioning of witnesses and her desire to be a voice for the victim.

Anthony is charged with murder in the death of her daughter Caylee Anthony. Caylee was reported missing in July and her remains were found in December after a lengthy search.

At a forum for crime victims, Drane-Burdick did not discuss the Anthony case, but she did share the challenges she faces in her job, such as the way police collect evidence.

"They have to make decisions in a blink of an eye," Drane-Burdick said. "Decisions that, two years later will be criticized, no matter what they do. They didn’t do it good enough, or they had an ulterior motive, or they didn't look at other suspects."

Drane-Burdick has successfully prosecuted numerous high-profile cases, such as the 1986 rape and murder of 13-year-old Molli Pittman.

She successfully obtained three life sentenced for Brent Mackinder, who was convicted of raping his 7-year-old niece and then trying to kill her along West Orange Trail.

Drane-Burdick was less successful at prosecuting former Orlando Magic announcer Goose Givens, who was acquitted of molesting a teenage girl.

The prosecutor has acknowledged that convictions are not guaranteed.

"It's not as easy as it looks on television and it is certainly not as fun," Drane-Burdick said.

Although she used to prosecute a lot of homicides, in recent years, Drane-Burdick has mostly handled child abuse cases, but State Attorney Lawson Lamar clearly has believes in her ability to pursue the death penalty against Anthony.

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/19326886/detail.html#-

[lorettalockhorn]

Wow. 93. Let's see, CA, GA, JB and everyone he knows, who else?

Todd Black's multiple personalities?

[One2Snoop]

Bogus Charities In Caylee’s Case / Sorting Fact From Fiction

April 29, 2009 by niecey456

There has been a lot of interest lately in the money trail, bogus charities in Caylee’s case / sorting fact from fiction is what we are going to do here. Let’s start with Dennis Milstead and Kid Finders. Check this out:

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/11/18/according-to-wftv-man-who-runs-kid-finders-dennis-milstead-has-serious-problems-with-his-criminal-past-and-his-non-profit-group/

I think you could clearly see if you followed all of the links and watched the videos that Dennis and KF’s are completely bogus. Next up Gil Cabot. Check it out:

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2009/02/07/casey-anthony-bizarre-circus-contineuscasey-anthony-bizarre-circus-continues-wtf-todd-black-exposed-gil-cabot-really-is-todd-black-or-at-least-one-of-them/

My, my, my, it seems that Todd Black/Gil Cabot is quite the creep too. Let’s see about the notorious Never Lose Hope Foundation. That’s the group that funded the boat and ATV recently. Check it out:

http://www.wftv.com/news/16980411/detail.html

It appears that Mr. Rivera’s Never Lose Hope Foundation was listed as a charitable organization and rescue squads, services. (as of 9/2008) Check it out:

http://www.taxexemptworld.com/organizations/kissimmee_fl_34741.asp

That’s really all I can find on them. It is odd that they were supposed to be founded a year prior to Caylee’s disappearance and were not yet a charity when they put up the reward and did George’s calls. No record of them being a charity until September. Also it is odd that the reverse 911 technology they used with George’s message was something they figured out from their telemarketing firm. I could find nothing else except from blogs, no news sources, or public records.

Next up Michelle Bart:

http://www.linkedin.com/in/helpingheroes

http://www.helpingheroes.com/ourservices.html

http://www.helpingheroes.com/clientsfriends.html

Notice on her client’s and friend’s list is Kid Finders, no mention of Never Lose Hope. Next up the land:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,509790,00.html

The listing for the land that was refreshed 10 minutes prior to me copying the link:

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/Orlando_FL_32793_1107588066

The listing is still active. The land is still for sale. It is after all wet land and it is not worth what they are asking for it. If there were a sale or sale pending it would not still have a status of active.

The purpose in this post you ask??? For one there have been some less than honorable players in this case, however I received some info from someone about the issue of this land being bought by the Never Lose Hope Foundation and it was not. The information came from a myspace blog and is inaccurate. As far as NLHF they are questionable, and Kid Finders, well we know the truth about them. Michelle Bart is involved with KF and has been closely involved with the Anthonys. She was also instrumental in setting up the dinner at “the Ritz” and the fancy hotel stay for the Anthonys as well as the meeting with the producer from ABC/Disney that paid. She is a publicist. Gil Cabot, aka Todd Black is a criminal and was associated with The Baez Law Firm and the Anthonys. I didn’t do this to offend anyone, just to clarify that that information came from a myspace blog and is innacurate. (at least when it comes to the land) The rest you can decide. I gave you the facts. I used the Scared Monkey’s links because I know they are accurate and they give you the many links to back it up, rather than me giving you a mountain of links. Make sure on those that you watch the videos and follow the news stories. It’s a lot to digest I know, but at least it’s the facts. Let me know what you think.

http://niecey456.wordpress.com/2009/04/29/bogus-charities-in-caylees-case-sorting-fact-from-fiction/

[deacon]

DEACON!!!!! You're staying after school tonight son! :punch:

:eek:

[deacon]

Yes true deacon, but can't they turn that around and say, "Any mother who heard that news and the speculation that it was her daughter, would react that way?"
I'm thinking they will try it.

Last night I was watching 48 Hours and they showed a mother who's daughter was missing (later found dead) and the poor mother was so hysterical she could barely talk. That, to me, was normal. But with these Anthonys during the search they were styling their foolish arses all over the telly. Not one shred of hysteria, hyperventilating or any kind of tearful terror for the little doll. Nada!

Okay, I'll give ya that Cindy seemed to have some terror in her voice during the initial stages, but not a whole lot. She seemed more interested in over talking LE.


But then why did she not act like that when other things were found in other places which, if she didn't know where Caylee was, would have been just as bad. I think we all know she got that upset becasue "the jig was up." Not because she was upset over the find. There would have been just as good a chance that this find was not Caylee, unless, she knew

[mu8shark]

That's why her car was at amscot with all her goodies in plain sight...worst case, someone breaks in and prints give her a culprit. Best case, car stolen, and the dingo's got her baby. Trouble is, the lowest thieves don't want to cruise in the Stink Bomb. If thieves wouldn't take it, how did George not smell it? It was only a couple of days after their f-ing gas can incident, right?

She IS capable of forethought...unless someone else suggested it...LOL that is no joke about the stinky car. I mean I can see someone breaking in momentarily to take her purse or whatever , but to drive it stinking like that. No way. One thing is for sure if they do have good video then the defense will have a lot of trouble saying someone broke into the car at Amscot and put a body there because it would be on video.

[mu8shark]

Number 1. Nancy Grace show needs to be cancelled or cut to half and hour

Number 2. Casey is as stupid as everyone thinks she is, she is just a LIAR. We are giving her to much credit for thinking she wanted the car to be stolen. She dumped it because it smelled so bad she could not drive it anymore.

# 3. When she parked the car and walked away she had already gotten ride of the body. The video is not gonna tell them anything.

#4. If anyone help her it was Lee for sure. If the car was dumped in hopes it would get stolen it was his idea.

#5. No one and I mean no one in this family of 4 has good Karma

#6. Has anyone seen these people really grieving for Caylee. When they gave te Depo and talked about her I didn't see a tear. Anger yes but not a tear for her not on the Early Show either.

#7. As I said in a previous post, no one has come forward to say what nice people they are.

This is a very sick family and normal minds are not going to be able to figure them out. They have closed ranks around their daughter/sister and even Water Boarding them is not gonna change their stories. They are like the next store neighbors in the movie the Burbs with Tom Hanks. Scary bunch. I completely agree with all of your post except one thing. I think her leaving her purse in the car and from what I remember it was visible is a telltale sign she hoped somebody would steal the car. The dumb thing is while someone might steal the purse that stinky car was not going to get stolen. Also, I agree with you so much on Nancy Grace. She is beyond rude. Tonight she attacked a radio reporter who did not answer the question the way she liked it. If she was a good interviewer she would be a good listener, which she is not, she talks over people and two when she does not get the answer she wants or the person does answer the question she wants answered a simple, polite follow up question would do. And good interviewers are adept at this. Nancy is not even a good interviewer and she distorts things to suit herself.

[mu8shark]

Oh Deacon, you have my mind going...unfortunately the visual is kicking in too :(. Many times we have heard profilers and others discuss the murder of someone by someone close to them. Many times, because of this, the murderer tries to disassociate themselves from the victim by covering their face before, and after.

I never thought Casey Anthony had the b***s to do it while Caylee was just sitting there, talking or looking at her. IMO, she was sedated with OTC meds, or sleeping. Then the duct taping.

Your post brings up a thought that a plastic bag was also used, after the duct tape to make the chloroform more 'concentrated' in a smaller area...upon falling unconscious, the bag was taken off, and the remaining vapors/phosgene hours later was the result.... Any tools used, chloroform containers, bags, were thrown out ~ god only knows where.

Sleuths............
The point last night of the BOMBSHELL regarding the Amscott video, is that she was driving around the lot a few times, trying to decide where to leave the car, later to say the car was stolen and that was who killed Caylee. Why would someone drive the car around a lot....? Common sense answers that one. Question is, WHY did the State hold this info...? why put it out now, and Yes, Caylee was already dumped, we know that much. She wanted it to look like the car was stolen, even left a bunch of stuff on the front set and in the car, as we know her enablers later cleaned..... She was counting on that car disappearing from that lot. Lazarro didn't have a clue what she was plotting when he picked her up, and remember, she didn't call mommy and daddy to come get that car, even though she told Lazarro she did call daddy....ultimately the car was TOWED because it was there too long! Now we can see how/what she was thinking and plotting and scheming. The State has an ace in the hole! We know enough , by her actions to see that this is something she thought would work, counting on that car to be taken from that lot...NOT by the towing company! Twit!Funny you should mention her intent and her counting on the car disappearing because when my cousin heard she left her purse visible, she said, "Who does that? There is no logical reason to do that. How are they going to explain that?" So she sees her leaving her stuff out and probably the car unlocked as very helpful to the prosecution because there would be on rational explanation for someone to do that and not go back and get the car,, unless they wanted the car to get stolen and why would someone want that?.....

[mu8shark]

Okay, this is just my opinion and nothing more. After some looking and thinking I have changed my mind about the cause of death. I really don't think chloroform caused Caylee's death. I think it was phosgene, a product of its decomposition. It started as chloroform but I really doubt that it was stored properly. If not, then phosgene would be the result. One reason, other than my belief that casey would not have stored it properly, is that phosgene would have been lethal at a much, much, much lower level than chloroform. In my thoughts, the chloroform found in the trunk was residue left. Oh, to have had the entire body. The different chemicals affect the body and cause death in two distinct ways. One attacks the ability to breath(phosgene) while the other attacks the central nervous system. Another particular thing about phsogene is that the results of the exposure can be delayed for up to 12 hours or so meaning that Caylee could have died sometime after she was exposed. Now if mommy dearest was trying to knock Caylee out for some reason and the chloroform had decomposed a bit the phosgene could have taken effect sometime later. My thoughts on where the duct tape came into play. Either of these two chemicals causes distress and at almost three years old I'll bet Caylee would have expressed her displeasure quite vocally. Hence the duct tape.

My mind roams when I work the night shift. Okay your post intrigues and I have thought it over and here is a scenario I can see. Let's say after the fight she leaves with Caylee and does not want to bother with her and chloroforms her as a way of babysitting and in the process of doing that, a little bit later , hours later the decomposed chloroform or the phosgene accidentally kills her. Then she would toss the body in the trunk and at some point the next day have to go back to the house for the laundry bag and and trash bags, because she would not think ahead of time if it was an accident to take the stuff to dispose of the body, Or she could have done this much later. However, where I get stuck is her googling for neck breaking and household weapons and the 100th episode of One Tree Hill where the nanny kidnaps a baby, Remember she did all these things in March way before she would have accidentally done this. To me the goggling indicates she was thinking of killing Caylee and finding a story to make her disappear way in advance. That is the only thing that makes me think it was intentional and she meant to kill her with chloroform. Nonetheless it was a great , well thought informative post!

[mu8shark]

I can hardly type this with a straight face, but what is it that CA thinks people are lining up to store bodies temporarily in her family's cars? Is storing bodies in trunks, like, common in her mind? Bad guys lurking in the dark looking for a likely car? So nutty, imo.

Oh, wait, does she mean Jesse Grund? Oooh, she does, huh? I'm so dense. Well her saying maybe someone put a body in the trunk after it was towed was almost comical if it weren't so tragic. I mean is this a worldwide problem, towyards having trunks broken into to store dead bodies. Jeesh!

[mu8shark]

Oh please....I've had the honor of smelling both rotting potatoes and decomposing animal flesh - they are not at all similar. OK, maybe a lamb or groundhog are a child, but the smell is distinctive. Rotting potatoes may not smell pleasant but it's not nearly are potent as rotting flesh. Also because I know from experience when I left one when I went on vacation, a rotting potato does stink but you can can rid of that smell fairly easily.

[mu8shark]

This is almost too idiotic for me to summarize: http://www.wesh.com/news/19317898/detail.html

Jose Baez is intimating that he is going to go with the "ugly coping" defense. The partying, that was just a PTSD reaction to the stress of having her baby kidnapped.

Well, I'm glad that's been cleared up. Uggh I saw this about the ugly coping and let me just ramble on this a bit. I know Baez has to try and refute things and give everything an alternate scenario. I think he is safe doing that with the forensics with a jury because let's face no matter how educated a jury is or how you try to educate them, basically they have to try and listen and weigh the experts and jurors might see two intepretations of the same tests with two different stories from experts, because they are not experts but the behavior stuff is dicey, dicey.We are all experts in how we as human beings react because we have lived, And you run the risk of insulting a jury if you try to pass of some hokey 'ugly coping 'theory . The way I see it, even if you got some psychiatrist up there to talk about this "ugly coping" jurors are going to be skeptical because we have all experienced stress , fear and grief . Even if you have never had your child kidnapped, we have all had that experience where we are worried sick over a loved one or even in shock over something horrible happening to them. There is nothing like the fear of the unknown for all human beings, like how is this going to turn out for my loved one. And I think back to my father having cancer when I was 23 about Caseys age and I did not know how it would turn out, he had surgery and died after two weeks, but in that two weeks while I was terrified about what would happen to him, I did not sleep , hardly, ate, was obsessed with what would happen to him. I can't imagine going partying or shopping or getting a tattoo in that time period.I have never seen anyone who I know in my life deal with grief and fear with ugly coping. It makes zero sense that Casey not knowing what would happen to Caylee would cause her to party and shop and never even mention it to friends and family. This ugly coping is a dangerous strategy that a jury will just not buy, Not only will they not buy it, it may color the jurys attitude towards Jose's credibility on everything else. I would not dare use something so vague and out there, because jurors will not identify with it.

[mu8shark]

Sorry Cupcakes - I can't agree. First of all, where she left is in one of the highest crime intersections in east Orange County. There are multiple homeless camps there and a murder was commited on that corner just two months ago and a revenge fire was set just last week.

As far as the video, it can show that no one else tampered with the car while it was parked at Amscott. Remember Cindy said that perhaps someone else put a dead body in that car. I think the video will be important. The Amscott manager said it was there when she arrived at 7 ish in the morning. The Liar didn't call Tony to pick her up until hours later. Why? Did someone else drive her around for three hours? I agree Gator that the value of the video is in debunking the someone put a body in the car at Amscot or tampered with the car theory. I have a question for you and thanks for the explaining it is a high crime area. My question is how far is Amscot from the body dump site and Anthony home since you have a good idea of the area?

[mu8shark]

Hey Nawny, it makes me wonder if, when it does come to trial, will G&C wear the Caylee picture buttons in the courtroom? We know they will sit behind their Lying Daughter on the Defense side, so will they still have their buttons on for the jury to see?

Gator In several trials I have read about the court does not allow these buttons to be worn even if it is just a button of the love or support for the victim. I bet they will not be allowed to.

[mu8shark]

My theory is the swimming pool or the bath tub. I think she taped her mouth so no one would hear the screaming and she drowned her. Probably, if I had to choose one location, it would be the pool. The ladder was left in, the dogs hit on two areas of possible decompostion. She drowned the child and then laid her on the ground while she went into the house to get the blanket and bags. She was running late and wanted to make sure her mother wasn't on the way home which is why she was makin the phone calls. She may have left Caylee's body there for a day or two and went back and borrowed the shovel to pick her up but ended up breaking the bag and getting the decomp fluids on her and in the car.

Gator This is exactly my cousins theory and I would add one thing, I think it might be possible that in addition to taping her mouth to quiet her, she chloroformed her before she taped her mouth , because Casey is a coward and would not want to face her and see her pleading , fearful eyes while she was duct taping her mouth. Then she drowned her in the pool.

[mu8shark]

That Bozo is getting more bizarre everyday. A rotten potato is going to smell like a dead body? Yeah maybe if it was stuck in a corpse's mouth. Boy, if I'm ever in need of an attorney, I'll defend myself rather than have him try to defend me. :rolleyes:

GatorNow Gator that is just funny!

[lighthousedazy]

Also because I know from experience when I left one when I went on vacation, a rotting potato does stink but you can can rid of that smell fairly easily.I grant you, a rotting potatoe is a horrible smell, I know it is actually worse than meat, but it is nothing like the decomposition of a human body. If Baez thinks this is going to fly, he is an absolute idiot. I don't have the link, but the only animal that comes close to human decomposition is decomp of a hog/pig. jmo

[mu8shark]

OMG! :eek: He can't be serious? There's no comparison between the Cynthia Sommer case and Casey Anthony, period. Baez, you're in serious trouble if this is all you have for your defense.
Well I did not follow that case enough to determine guilt or not and It sounds like they exonerated her. But it does not sound like she gave a rat's ass about her husband. She may not have killed him but it sounds like she was relieved anyway that he was gone, just my opinion or am I just talking without knowing much??

[mu8shark]

I've been looking for the latest document dump but haven't found anything yet - maybe tomorrow? :shrug:

Survey on Wesh2


Do you think the "ugly coping" defense could explain Casey Anthony's behavior after her daughter Caylee went missing?
Choice Votes Percentage of 2836 Votes
Yes 93 3%
No 2676 94%
Maybe 67 2%

http://www.wesh.com/news/19317898/detail.html This just proves my point you may get one juror to think it explains it , but it will never get her an out and out acquittal.

[deacon]

Okay your post intrigues and I have thought it over and here is a scenario I can see. Let's say after the fight she leaves with Caylee and does not want to bother with her and chloroforms her as a way of babysitting and in the process of doing that, a little bit later , hours later the decomposed chloroform or the phosgene accidentally kills her. Then she would toss the body in the trunk and at some point the next day have to go back to the house for the laundry bag and and trash bags, because she would not think ahead of time if it was an accident to take the stuff to dispose of the body, Or she could have done this much later. However, where I get stuck is her googling for neck breaking and household weapons and the 100th episode of One Tree Hill where the nanny kidnaps a baby, Remember she did all these things in March way before she would have accidentally done this. To me the goggling indicates she was thinking of killing Caylee and finding a story to make her disappear way in advance. That is the only thing that makes me think it was intentional and she meant to kill her with chloroform. Nonetheless it was a great , well thought informative post!

I am not suggesting it was an accident. What I mean is, casey was trying to kill her with chloroform or put her to sleep(I lean toward kill her) but it had degraded and the gas given off was phosgene not chloroform. The phosgene irritated her lungs and she started to cry. Now the duct tape comes in, a way to keep her quiet. (I think the heart was an after thought) Now the phosgene is deadly in a concentration of about 2ppm, chloroform at about 4,000 ppm (I reread the MSDS) but deadly reaction can be delayed as much as 12-24 hours. That is why she cried and didn't die right off. I really doubt a child would take nearly 12 -24 hours. With their systems running 1000 miles an hour and being much smaller it would not have taken IMO much over a few minutes to an hour.

[mu8shark]

I am not suggesting it was an accident. What I mean is, casey was trying to kill her with chloroform or put her to sleep(I lean toward kill her) but it had degraded and the gas given off was phosgene not chloroform. The phosgene irritated her lungs and she started to cry. Now the duct tape comes in, a way to keep her quiet. (I think the heart was an after thought) Now the phosgene is deadly in a concentration of about 2ppm, chloroform at about 4,000 ppm (I reread the MSDS) but deadly reaction can be delayed as much as 12-24 hours. That is why she cried and didn't die right off. I really doubt a child would take nearly 12 -24 hours. With their systems running 1000 miles an hour and being much smaller it would not have taken IMO much over a few minutes to an hour. I get ya now! Thanks for explaining. Okay, I kind of doubt it took that long either. If only the body had been found sooner!

[lighthousedazy]

I am not suggesting it was an accident. What I mean is, casey was trying to kill her with chloroform or put her to sleep(I lean toward kill her) but it had degraded and the gas given off was phosgene not chloroform. The phosgene irritated her lungs and she started to cry. Now the duct tape comes in, a way to keep her quiet. (I think the heart was an after thought) Now the phosgene is deadly in a concentration of about 2ppm, chloroform at about 4,000 ppm (I reread the MSDS) but deadly reaction can be delayed as much as 12-24 hours. That is why she cried and didn't die right off. I really doubt a child would take nearly 12 -24 hours. With their systems running 1000 miles an hour and being much smaller it would not have taken IMO much over a few minutes to an hour.
Deacon, I agree. I do hope and pray that the prosecution is on top of this and I am sure that they are. They are not blathering idiots as JB wants to portray that everyone is. jmo :shrug:

[mu8shark]

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Legal Affairs
Court Hears Arguments on 'Victim Buttons'
by Nina Totenberg



All Things Considered, October 11, 2006 · The Supreme Court heard arguments Wednesday on whether a crime victim's family has the right to sit in court wearing buttons with pictures of the victim. The accused murderer's conviction was thrown out because the buttons may have had a prejudicial effect on the jury. Another article with the actual ruling SUPREME COURT REINSTATES MURDER CONVICTION

In a decision announced today, the United States Supreme Court reinstated the conviction of a California man, concluding that an earlier federal Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals ruling which overturned his conviction was improper. In the case of Carey v. Musladin, the lower court had determined that the murderer’s rights had been violated because three of the victim’s family members wore buttons with the victim’s photo during the trial. All nine justices agreed that decision should be reversed.

The California-based Criminal Justice Legal Foundation had joined the case to argue that the Ninth Circuit ruling violated rules requiring the federal courts, reviewing a case on habeas corpus, to respect reasonable state court decisions that are not contrary to Supreme Court precedent. Because there was no high court decision finding that the wearing of photo buttons violated a defendant’s rights, the state court decision to allow them could not be presumed unreasonable. The Court’s decision utilized research introduced in the Foundation’s brief.

Writing for the Court, Associate Justice Clarence Thomas stated, “Given the lack of holdings from this Court regarding the potentially prejudicial effect of spectator’s courtroom conduct of the kind involved here, it cannot be said that the state court ‘unreasonabl[y] appli[ed] clearly established federal law.’ ”

“The Ninth Circuit decision overturned today is a prime example of exactly the kind of interference with state courts that Congress intended to prohibit when it passed the Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act ten years ago,” said the Foundation’s Legal Director Kent Scheidegger.

The case of Carey v. Musladin involves the 1995 conviction of Mathew Musladin for the murder of Thomas Studer a year earlier. According to evidence introduced at trial, Musladin committed the murder on May 13, 1994, during a violent confrontation with his estranged wife Pamela. Earlier that day, Musladin was telephoned by the District Attorney’s office regarding his refusal to pay child support for his 3-year-old son, who was in his wife’s custody. Armed with a loaded .45 caliber pistol, Musladin arrived early at his wife’s residence in San Jose to pick up the child for his scheduled visitation. At that time, her fiancé Thomas Studer, and her brother, Michael Albaugh were in the house.

After Musladin put his son in his car, he told his wife, “I got a call from the district attorney this morning and that’s the last straw.” He then threatened to kill her if she would not give him full custody of the child. When she begged him not to do this, he pushed her onto the driveway. After Albaugh and Studer came outside to help Pamela, Musladin went to his car and retrieved his gun.

Seeing the gun, Pamela, Albaugh, and Studer ran for the garage. Musladin fired at Studer, hitting him in the shoulder. As Studer attempted to crawl to safety, Musladin walked over and shot him in the head, killing him instantly. Albaugh ran into the house and dialed 911. Hearing Musladin enter the house, Albaugh locked himself in the bathroom. Musladin kicked in the bathroom door and threatened him with his gun, then abruptly left. He was pulled over and arrested a short time later. En route to the police station he kept saying, “I didn’t mean to do it. I’m sorry.”

As the trial was beginning, at least three members of Studer’s family, wearing buttons with his photograph on them, took seats in the courtroom. Seeing this, Musladin’s defense attorney asked the judge to require that the buttons be removed. The judge refused, noting that the buttons had no words and only a photograph and that the jury had been instructed not to be swayed by passion or prejudice.

Musladin testified that he killed Studer in self-defense, claiming that he had feared for his life. In addition to testimony and forensic evidence identifying Musladin as the murderer, the prosecution introduced evidence of his prior violent confrontations with his wife, which included threats to kill her and shoot Studer. The jury found him guilty of first-degree murder and he was sentenced to 32 years to life in prison.

Among the claims challenging his conviction on appeal, Musladin argued that the judge’s decision to allow the victim’s family to wear photo buttons during the trial was unconstitutional and may have prejudiced the jurors against him. This claim was rejected by the state Court of Appeal and the federal District Court. In an October 2005 ruling by Judge Stephen Reinhardt, a divided panel of the federal Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals found the state court decision unreasonable and overturned Musladin’s conviction. Last April, the United States Supreme Court agreed to hear the state’s appeal of that ruling.

The Criminal Justice Legal Foundation submitted an amicus curiae (friend of the court) brief in the case to argue that the Ninth Circuit’s ruling fell outside the decisions of virtually every other court which has reviewed a similar claim. No court, under any circumstances, has found that buttons or ribbons that merely indicate remembrance of a deceased victim, with no implication of the defendant’s guilt, were unconstitutionally prejudicial. A provision of the Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996 requires the lower federal courts to respect reasonable state court decisions. The Foundation’s brief discussed these precedents from other states, and today’s opinion cited them as evidence that the California decision was reasonable.

“The message in this Supreme Court decision is clear, the law does not allow the lower federal courts to set aside state court holdings based upon no more than a disagreement with the result,” said Scheidegger.

[One2Snoop]

Oh, I believe you! We are both omnivores...and I read an ethnography of a formerly cannibalistic group and they referred to enemy villagers as "long pigs". Humans, they said, taste like bacon. mmmmm....bacon.....

So it stands to reason the odor would be the same. Maybe Cindy should be alleging that someone stored a hog in the car for a July 4th barbecue. Less improbable than that corpse storage allegation...

Maybe it was the bacon on the pizza? :shrug: :biggrin:

[One2Snoop]

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Legal Affairs
Court Hears Arguments on 'Victim Buttons'
by Nina Totenberg



All Things Considered, October 11, 2006 · The Supreme Court heard arguments Wednesday on whether a crime victim's family has the right to sit in court wearing buttons with pictures of the victim. The accused murderer's conviction was thrown out because the buttons may have had a prejudicial effect on the jury.

Did this happen in Florida? Nevermind - I see you edited and added to the article. Thanks! :seeya:

[mu8shark]

Oh, I believe you! We are both omnivores...and I read an ethnography of a formerly cannibalistic group and they referred to enemy villagers as "long pigs". Humans, they said, taste like bacon. mmmmm....bacon.....

So it stands to reason the odor would be the same. Maybe Cindy should be alleging that someone stored a hog in the car for a July 4th barbecue. Less improbable than that corpse storage allegation...LOL I can hear it now. "Casey routinely slaughtered and stored dead pigs in the trunk of her car as a hobby." LOL Well it is just as believable as some of the other crap Jose is peddling.!

[DrewBerry]

You said a mouthful there, sister! I'll have what you're having.

http://i33.tinypic.com/6olj6q.jpg

PS Hayell no Cindy's no ten. She a one. A mean one!

http://i26.tinypic.com/2rw3zma.jpg

OMG! You guys are too funny! CA's eyes are full of hate and you're right; the eyebrows are in permanent frown mode! I was so disgusted with CA when she deliberately told ZG "that you're cute but you're no "10". What a piece of s**t CA is. . . definitely mentally unstable. Wonder what expert psychiatrists say about this horrible woman. Here's a toast of haterade :beer:
DrewB

[One2Snoop]

OMG! You guys are too funny! Her eyes are full of hate and you're right the eyebrows are in permanent frown mode! I was so disgusted with CA when she deliberately told ZG "that you're cut but you're no "10". What a piece of s**t CA is. . .CA is definitely mentally unstable. Wonder what expert psychiatrists say about this horrible woman. Here's to a toast of haterade :beer:
DrewB

There's a video that goes with the Grinch...

http://bigmouthshelly.wordpress.com/2009/04/29/cindy-is-the-grinch-parody/

[deacon]

Deacon, I agree. I do hope and pray that the prosecution is on top of this and I am sure that they are. They are not blathering idiots as JB wants to portray that everyone is. jmo :shrug:

Well, if they read here maybe they will think about it:shrug:

Oh, I am sure someone in LE has thought about this already.

[Amy]

That button should be on the gravestone, not to say Caylee was important enough for them to arrange a decent burial, GAWD forbid. Betcha Casey gets one! They're not even worthy of a button with that gorgeous child's picture on it. Gimmi that Haterade! I'll put it in the sippy cup, promise! :beer:

Tell me about this green issue. I've seen posts about it but I missed the reason they wear it. And if you will, tell me about the eyebrow thing Cindy has going on. :confused: They're almost in her eyes. She looks like guy... a little.. no? Not a 10, that's for sure!

I'm not sure what significance there is, but she wears that color so much, it seems there might be some reason. It's not like green is the only color that would look okay on her. I'm guessing--the wearing of the green--I've always associated that phrase with Ireland. And w/Casey seeming to have a thing w/shamrocks, maybe Cindy is wearing green--also not all her tops were what I would call a shamrock green.

[mu8shark]

Do you know what ugly coping reminds me of? The Twinkie defense in the Harvey Milk case. One lone nut defense lawyer used it and it never went over again! Talk about your junk , this sounds like junk psychology. This is not something accepted as a valid psychological diagnosis.

[Amy]

Wow. 93. Let's see, CA, GA, JB and everyone he knows, who else?

Probably the people who keep poor Casey's canteen coffers filled voted, but I still can't see where that would get the number to 95. Maybe someone did a ballot box stuffing? And got tired pretty quickly, lol. Or, could be folks who haven't followed the case much voted. (Goes to show there are probably 90 people in the area who haven't paid so much attention--pick 12 jurors from that pool. The trial will open their eyes, I am sure.)

[DrewBerry]

I can hardly type this with a straight face, but what is it that CA thinks people are lining up to store bodies temporarily in her family's cars? Is storing bodies in trunks, like, common in her mind? Bad guys lurking in the dark looking for a likely car? So nutty, imo.

Oh, wait, does she mean Jesse Grund? Oooh, she does, huh? I'm so dense.

Same here, Java. Cindy is a dumbass. Not only does she throw out outrageous, idiotic possibilities, she continues to talk in circles just to shift the focus. I call it word salad. Sentences are all mixed up and words tossed around to confuse and deflect from the original question. Hmmmm, wonder where Casey learned to spin her lies in circles and double talk? I'm just as disgusted with that creepy brother Lee as well. This is one F'd up family full of liars! JMO, of course.:mad: I really hope the Ants. are reading these boards. . .
DrewB

[Amy]

Funny you should mention her intent and her counting on the car disappearing because when my cousin heard she left her purse visible, she said, "Who does that? There is no logical reason to do that. How are they going to explain that?" So she sees her leaving her stuff out and probably the car unlocked as very helpful to the prosecution because there would be on rational explanation for someone to do that and not go back and get the car,, unless they wanted the car to get stolen and why would someone want that?.....

Even w/o a video, Baez is going to have a bit of trouble with when the car was left. TonE is on tape explaining when he was called to pick Casey up after her car "ran out of gas" and she tells him she called her dad to take care of it. Then, the Amscot employee has definite information on when she first saw it there, and it was still there after the 3 days--call to towyard. By Cindy and George's own testimony, they first knew about the car when they fot the registered letter from the towyard. Baez is going to have a difficult time getting people to think Casey just ran out of gas, and had plans for the car to be returned to HopeSpring Drive. No call to Daddy per his own testimony.

I admit there are times I will leave my purse in the car. But I make sure it is tucked out of sight under the seat, double checking to make sure a strap can't be seen by someone just looking in the car. Another difference is that I return to the car within an hour or so. Guess maybe Casey can try to say that she left the purse there so Daddy would have the registration and insurance info when he came to get the car, that is, if she had bothered to call him to get the car.

[Amy]

Uggh I saw this about the ugly coping and let me just ramble on this a bit. I know Baez has to try and refute things and give everything an alternate scenario. I think he is safe doing that with the forensics with a jury because let's face no matter how educated a jury is or how you try to educate them, basically they have to try and listen and weigh the experts and jurors might see two intepretations of the same tests with two different stories from experts, because they are not experts but the behavior stuff is dicey, dicey.We are all experts in how we as human beings react because we have lived, And you run the risk of insulting a jury if you try to pass of some hokey 'ugly coping 'theory . The way I see it, even if you got some psychiatrist up there to talk about this "ugly coping" jurors are going to be skeptical because we have all experienced stress , fear and grief . Even if you have never had your child kidnapped, we have all had that experience where we are worried sick over a loved one or even in shock over something horrible happening to them. There is nothing like the fear of the unknown for all human beings, like how is this going to turn out for my loved one. And I think back to my father having cancer when I was 23 about Caseys age and I did not know how it would turn out, he had surgery and died after two weeks, but in that two weeks while I was terrified about what would happen to him, I did not sleep , hardly, ate, was obsessed with what would happen to him. I can't imagine going partying or shopping or getting a tattoo in that time period.I have never seen anyone who I know in my life deal with grief and fear with ugly coping. It makes zero sense that Casey not knowing what would happen to Caylee would cause her to party and shop and never even mention it to friends and family. This ugly coping is a dangerous strategy that a jury will just not buy, Not only will they not buy it, it may color the jurys attitude towards Jose's credibility on everything else. I would not dare use something so vague and out there, because jurors will not identify with it.

I don't recall which show I was listening to, but there was a psychiatrist who says, among other things--there is no diagnosis "ugly coping" in the manual which describes abnormal behaviour, syndromes and such (can't remember the name--it has initials that include MD and I think they are up to verision IV @ least by now.) The person on the show thinks "ugly coping" would not get Baez or Casey anywhere. Of course, except people like NG earnestly asking a psychiatrist about this, I haven't read of anyone who really thinks this is something to get past first base on.

IMO, it's another one of those outrageous remarks defense attorneys like to throw out to reporters--even if it puts John and Jane Q Public in an outrage, it keeps their client in the news. You know, media overload and all that. If the dadgum prosecution won't go on every tv show and hold daily pc's to keep the case out in the headlines, a defense attorney's got to do what a defense attorney's got to do!!!! :D

[mu8shark]

Even w/o a video, Baez is going to have a bit of trouble with when the car was left. TonE is on tape explaining when he was called to pick Casey up after her car "ran out of gas" and she tells him she called her dad to take care of it. Then, the Amscot employee has definite information on when she first saw it there, and it was still there after the 3 days--call to towyard. By Cindy and George's own testimony, they first knew about the car when they fot the registered letter from the towyard. Baez is going to have a difficult time getting people to think Casey just ran out of gas, and had plans for the car to be returned to HopeSpring Drive. No call to Daddy per his own testimony.

I admit there are times I will leave my purse in the car. But I make sure it is tucked out of sight under the seat, double checking to make sure a strap can't be seen by someone just looking in the car. Another difference is that I return to the car within an hour or so. Guess maybe Casey can try to say that she left the purse there so Daddy would have the registration and insurance info when he came to get the car, that is, if she had bothered to call him to get the car.Okay I confess I have left my purse in a locked car but as you said out of sight. Usually I put it under the seat or a blankie or something else. Did she lock the car ? Do we know that?Everything I find says the car was UNLOCKED!

[eatcupcakes]

I completely agree with all of your post except one thing. I think her leaving her purse in the car and from what I remember it was visible is a telltale sign she hoped somebody would steal the car. The dumb thing is while someone might steal the purse that stinky car was not going to get stolen. Also, I agree with you so much on Nancy Grace. She is beyond rude. Tonight she attacked a radio reporter who did not answer the question the way she liked it. If she was a good interviewer she would be a good listener, which she is not, she talks over people and two when she does not get the answer she wants or the person does answer the question she wants answered a simple, polite follow up question would do. And good interviewers are adept at this. Nancy is not even a good interviewer and she distorts things to suit herself.

And I agree with you. I must be wrong about the car, I guess she did want it stolen. You are 100% correct about Miss Nance. She needs to be taken off the air. Her producers don't even have the smarts to change the introductory of the show about Caylee. It appears to me that she really has her mind on her twins and nothing else. She goes in to do the job but really does not want to be there, that is why she is so nasty. Maybe when her contract runs out she and the Network will go their separete ways, one can onlly hope.

[eatcupcakes]

Okay your post intrigues and I have thought it over and here is a scenario I can see. Let's say after the fight she leaves with Caylee and does not want to bother with her and chloroforms her as a way of babysitting and in the process of doing that, a little bit later , hours later the decomposed chloroform or the phosgene accidentally kills her. Then she would toss the body in the trunk and at some point the next day have to go back to the house for the laundry bag and and trash bags, because she would not think ahead of time if it was an accident to take the stuff to dispose of the body, Or she could have done this much later. However, where I get stuck is her googling for neck breaking and household weapons and the 100th episode of One Tree Hill where the nanny kidnaps a baby, Remember she did all these things in March way before she would have accidentally done this. To me the goggling indicates she was thinking of killing Caylee and finding a story to make her disappear way in advance. That is the only thing that makes me think it was intentional and she meant to kill her with chloroform. Nonetheless it was a great , well thought informative post!

This still could be the cause of death. Maybe she was thinking of killing Caylee but had not really decided to do it yet and then she kills her by accident with the phosgene. It's possible but we are only guessing. No one is ever gonna really know because this Bi-atch is not gonna talk and she is the only one who knows except maybe Lee. After the CMA speech at the Memorial Service when Lee said I will keep my promise to you CMA. It was obvious he was not talking to Caylee. I don't know why LE has not suggested he take a Lie Detector Test. I know they can't make him do it but if he has nothing to hide he should be willing.

[eatcupcakes]

What is going on with all these young mothers killing their babies. I think part an parcel of this is that so many celebs are having babies and it looks glamorous to these young girls. They get preggers and after the kids are born they see it's not so glam. The celebs have lots of money and nanny's. These girls now have to take care of the kid or kids themselves and can't cope with it. Now we have the young mother in CA who first said the kid was kidnapped then admitts it was an accident that the kid smothered.

So your baby smothers by accident, you don't rush to the ER and hope they can bring the baby back, save her. You don't go for help instead you dump the baby by the side of the road. I am not buying that story. I had a baby when I was 19. I loved him to death and would have died for him. If this had happened I would have been screaming all the way to the ER and begging for them to save him. Something is very wrong out there in the world today. Are we raising unfeeling people. Is this what the Computer Age has given us.

[eatcupcakes]

You're singing my song EC. Let's take it back to Woodstock! I was having babies when the anti establishment point of view came on the horizon. I argue that it started there. Suddenly children became dispensable because the hippy generation broke tradition. Free love my Azz! Selfish generations raise selfish children.
I can't stand it! Okay, I'm going to get off my soap box now.:chicken:

I need more cawffee this morning. I woke up angry over that story last night! That Emma was so beautiful, I cried.

Yes I to have felt some of her rudeness is rehearsed or why would the same TH come back to get abused. But last night she was very rude to the reporter she was talking to and I don't think he was rehearsed.

There seems to be a lot of other cases out there with missing or dead kids why does she focus so much on this one to the point of why watch it's the same thing every night. If there was really something new with the case then okay broadcast "BREAKING NEWS" but when there is no new put on something else. I bet she dosen't concentrate on the CA baby to much nor the Huckabee case. She only does Caylee becasue there is so much hatered for the Liar.

[eatcupcakes]

Its not the computer age, imo. It is the age of "high self-esteem". Started in the 1970's. No one should feel bad about themselves or their actions, right? There's no such thing as losing, right, its all about being there, right? It might damage their self-esteem, right? Everybody should get a gold star, no one gets a failing grade, no child should hear "bad" or "no", everything they do is just perfect because they are them...So everybody is a special little snowflake, to quote Chuck Pohlaniak...the result: no one feels bad about what they SHOULD feel bad about, or has any feeling for anyone else. It's a generation of narcissistic, lazy, unempathetic "me" people.

No wonder they get shocked when life gets real and their helicopter parents can't save them from what they were raised to be. I had a student (this is college), complain about getting a 'd'...why? She didn't turn in the final assignment and clearly put no effort in the tests...you know what she said to me, crying? "But I was here!" I was confused, huh? "But I came to class!" She thought her PRESENCE was worthy of not only a passing grade but a good one. IT WAS HER PARENTS FAULT, IT WAS HER HIGH SCHOOLS FAULT, BUT SHE WAS THE ONE WHO PAID THE PRICE.

This is the generation that is killing it's children. Melinda, Casey, Stacey, etc.

All imos. And I'm off my soapbox now.

These girls are probable in the first group of adults to come out of the computer age. Hippies were love and peace not killing. And I thought all this self esteem stufff started in the 90's. Funny I don't think these killers have high self esteem. I see high self esteem in people who have accomplished something in there life, like Barack Obama or his wife Michelle, they seem very well adjusted. Only using them as an example because we all know who they are. Computers have made people like machines. You can talk and interact with people without faces, you can say what u want and not have to look a person in the eye. You can lie, cheat and steal on the computer. An as in the Craig List Killer, even kill. Maybe we are all right and it is everything combined but we better find the reason. If not we are going to have a throw away world of kids. MOO

[Gatordog]

This still could be the cause of death. Maybe she was thinking of killing Caylee but had not really decided to do it yet and then she kills her by accident with the phosgene. It's possible but we are only guessing. No one is ever gonna really know because this Bi-atch is not gonna talk and she is the only one who knows except maybe Lee. After the CMA speech at the Memorial Service when Lee said I will keep my promise to you CMA. It was obvious he was not talking to Caylee. I don't know why LE has not suggested he take a Lie Detector Test. I know they can't make him do it but if he has nothing to hide he should be willing.

He was requested to take a lie detector test along with Cindy and George. He refused to take one without a subpeona and told C&G the same thing. I believe the subpeona was issued. LE isn't going to say whether or not one was taken. There was a lot of discussion on this back in late summer.

Gator

[Gatordog]

LOL Yes it started waaaaay back when...http://i43.tinypic.com/2up2ut3.gif

or would it be............FINGER puppets??http://i44.tinypic.com/1zpmhjd.jpg

Too funny! I'm here laughing at my desk again and people are going to think I'm "Cagootz".

Gator

[Gatordog]

I hope that means his new job is filling sanitary napkin machines. Caylee should have been found long before she was, and there would be less convolution. I can't abide rude, condescending cops!

And Java hits another one out of the park! LOL

Gator

[Gatordog]

I haven't researched PTSD in depth, but I wonder how many cases of PTSD are documented where a "reaction to the stress" of a particular incident lasts for say, 31 days or so? The PTSD person doesn't, in 31 days, come into contact w/reality to remember the situation that caused the "break"--ESPECIALLY IN THIS CASE, WHERE SHE WAS IN CONTACT W/REALITY EVERY DAY (according to Cindy) WHEN HER MOTHER WOULD ASK EVERY TIME "WHERE IS CAYLEE? I WANT TO TALK TO CAYLEE." Nope, that never brought her back to reality? The "reaction" caused her to lie to her Mom for 31 days?

Methinks Jose better some up w/something better than this.

Holy Cow, Amy hits another out of the park too!

Gator

[Gatordog]

That button should be on the gravestone, not to say Caylee was important enough for them to arrange a decent burial, GAWD forbid. Betcha Casey gets one! They're not even worthy of a button with that gorgeous child's picture on it. Gimmi that Haterade! I'll put it in the sippy cup, promise! :beer:

Tell me about this green issue. I've seen posts about it but I missed the reason they wear it. And if you will, tell me about the eyebrow thing Cindy has going on. :confused: They're almost in her eyes. She looks like guy... a little.. no? Not a 10, that's for sure!

Hi Nawny, love the new avatar. You are so talented.

The closet thing I have come up with regarding the green is that it is probably the Liar's favorite color and the Liar has that shamrock tattoo on her butt. So I come to the conclusion that Cindy is wearing bright green so that if the Liar sees a picture or the tv news, she will know her mother is supporting her. Cindy should just get a shamrock tat on her face. Then we can call her Buttface. Oh, I'm bad. :D That video where the Liar is playing on the floor with her daugher shows the Liar wearing that bright green color.

Gator

[Gatordog]

When you really think about it............

Boy oh boy, was this girl in overdrive! Plotting, Planning and scheming!...Just imagine her, trying to dig a hole, (:() not knowing what to do, definately in "Oh S**T mode,,,driving around and around Amscot, trying to find the best place to leave the car, meanwhile her mother's calling, she's telling people about dead squirrels, she's run out of Amy's money, stealin the frickin gas cans, all the while, thinking of what she's going to say, do, act.........

I can't wait, hoping we will be able to see the jurors faces as they show the tape of her going around and around Amscott with her head whipping around to find the best place for her car to be stolen! All the while knowing that she had just disposed of little Caylee.......


(Yes, beem, there Must be a 'fun post -traumatic disorder'! There must be!!! http://i41.tinypic.com/2lo0myf.gif

Stop, Stop, I can't take it anymore. I laughing so hard I have tears rolling down my face. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-laughing021.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

Gator

[Gatordog]

I didn't know that is a high crime area, I thought it was not far from the Ants house. Well I hope the video does tell them something I guess it will show what time she dropped it off. And since the body would have to be out of the car by then itI will prove a more definate block of time in which Caylee died or was dumped after she was last seen with the car.

It's about a 12 minute drive by car from the Ant's house. Colonial Drive is a major six lane state road and it runs east/west right through Orange County and is very old. It's one of those roads that is a high traffic use and also a mecca for homeless people. Orlando is a peculiar place in that it has very old sections right next to new sections. No matter where you are, if you drive 10 minutes or so, it is like a different area. You can have subdivisions with $400K homes right next to a street which has old, run-down cracker cottages with chickens and tires in the front yard.

Gator

[Mojo]

Its not the computer age, imo. It is the age of "high self-esteem". Started in the 1970's. No one should feel bad about themselves or their actions, right? There's no such thing as losing, right, its all about being there, right? It might damage their self-esteem, right? Everybody should get a gold star, no one gets a failing grade, no child should hear "bad" or "no", everything they do is just perfect because they are them...So everybody is a special little snowflake, to quote Chuck Pohlaniak...the result: no one feels bad about what they SHOULD feel bad about, or has any feeling for anyone else. It's a generation of narcissistic, lazy, unempathetic "me" people.

No wonder they get shocked when life gets real and their helicopter parents can't save them from what they were raised to be. I had a student (this is college), complain about getting a 'd'...why? She didn't turn in the final assignment and clearly put no effort in the tests...you know what she said to me, crying? "But I was here!" I was confused, huh? "But I came to class!" She thought her PRESENCE was worthy of not only a passing grade but a good one. IT WAS HER PARENTS FAULT, IT WAS HER HIGH SCHOOLS FAULT, BUT SHE WAS THE ONE WHO PAID THE PRICE.

This is the generation that is killing it's children. Melinda, Casey, Stacey, etc.

All imos. And I'm off my soapbox now.

You are soooo right!! Excellent post. What is scary is they are still doing this is school. Teachers in my area have been instructed not to use red pens to correct papers. It's too "harsh". They all need a swift kick in the azz if you ask me right after their parents.

[Gatordog]

You're singing my song EC. Let's take it back to Woodstock! I was having babies when the anti establishment point of view came on the horizon. I argue that it started there. Suddenly children became dispensable because the hippy generation broke tradition. Free love my Azz! Selfish generations raise selfish children.
I can't stand it! Okay, I'm going to get off my soap box now.:chicken:

I need more cawffee this morning. I woke up angry over that story last night! That Emma was so beautiful, I cried.

I hear ya Nawny.

Gator

[Gatordog]

You didn't grow up in California, did you? Okay, maybe it was where I was, Marin...it was pretty much ground zero on the nuttiness, and it evolved from the "I'm okay, you're okay hippy mentality". I heard it all the time. Fortunately, I only got stroked when I deserved it.

But I agree all of it together is accelerating it. We're doomed. Maybe some form of national service requirement would help.

eta:The ultimate result of unwarranted self-esteem IS narcissism, imo. I'm not one who agrees with the paradigm that bullies just have low self-esteem. I think they are mean people who count only themselves as worthy, so I give them no snuggle-puppy quarter...

Reminds me of The Bernie Mac Show where he had niece Babygirl in a new age feel-good school and nephew Jordan in a strict Catholic School. Babygirl was failing everything but that was okay because you shouldn't damage their little egos with grades. He took babygirl out and put her in Catholic school with Jordan. Of course she takes her breaks when she's had enough and gets sent to the Principal. She calls the Priest by his first name and his reponse, "Little Girl even me own mother calls me Father".

Gator

[One2Snoop]

Casey Anthony case: More documents expected to be released Friday

Sarah Lundy | Sentinel Staff Writer
1:09 PM EDT, April 30, 2009

The State Attorney's Office is expected to release hundreds of pages of documents Friday in the case against Casey Anthony.

The investigative documents will include law enforcement interviews with witnesses and lab reports.

Public records laws require the state to release information prosecutors provide to the defense. The State Attorney's Office has already turned over this information to Anthony's attorney, Jose Baez.

Thousands of pages of documents, hundreds of photos and other images and several sets of videos already have been made public by the State Attorney's office.

Anthony, 23, is charged with first-degree murder in the death of her daughter, Caylee Marie Anthony. The remains of the toddler were found Dec. 11 less than a mile from the Anthony family home after a nearly six-month search for her.

Casey Anthony told investigators she left her daughter with a babysitter in June and they disappeared. Casey Anthony was already under indictment -- and in jail -- when her daughter's body was recovered.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/orl-bk-casey-anthony-documents-043009,0,2014496.story

[deacon]

What is going on with all these young mothers killing their babies. I think part an parcel of this is that so many celebs are having babies and it looks glamorous to these young girls. They get preggers and after the kids are born they see it's not so glam. The celebs have lots of money and nanny's. These girls now have to take care of the kid or kids themselves and can't cope with it. Now we have the young mother in CA who first said the kid was kidnapped then admitts it was an accident that the kid smothered.

So your baby smothers by accident, you don't rush to the ER and hope they can bring the baby back, save her. You don't go for help instead you dump the baby by the side of the road. I am not buying that story. I had a baby when I was 19. I loved him to death and would have died for him. If this had happened I would have been screaming all the way to the ER and begging for them to save him. Something is very wrong out there in the world today. Are we raising unfeeling people. Is this what the Computer Age has given us.


At least some of the time these children are in "one parent" homes. Now, I am not saying that a woman or a man can not be a great parent without a spouse but, I am saying should be a lot easier with two parents. I have an adult son and my wonderful wife and I both took care of him. Taking care of and raising my son was a team effort. I worked and she didn't so on the weekends he was my responsibility and she rested.

Another thing is these women are becoming parents before they are mature (nothing to do with age) enough to be a mom. They may be a mother but they are not a mom. They also have been raised to think they can do no wrong, that the world revolves around them, and they should do what makes them happy. Other people don't matter. A large group of them do no know what discipline is. They were never held responsible for their actions by their parents and were, in fact, defended by their parents anytime they got in trouble outside of the home. Now, let me also say, that boys are being raised in the same way and most of what we see get involved in problems raising children are just as bed or worse than the girls, This is the result of psych. telling people that they should raise their children in a positive environment. I was raised in an environment that was positive most of the time. However, if I crossed the line, my mom and dad made sure I understood that I was wrong and I had to take responsibility for what I did. That did not always result in a spanking but sometimes it did. That was never done in anger, one of the BIG THINGS that lead to child abuse. I never spanked my son out of anger. If I was angry with him I would make sure I calmed down and did not discipline him in any way out of anger. The punishment had to fit the crime. I learned this while I was young as modeled by my parents. I didn't need to read a book. I guess you know how I felt about them.

[deacon]

Its not the computer age, imo. It is the age of "high self-esteem". Started in the 1970's. No one should feel bad about themselves or their actions, right? There's no such thing as losing, right, its all about being there, right? It might damage their self-esteem, right? Everybody should get a gold star, no one gets a failing grade, no child should hear "bad" or "no", everything they do is just perfect because they are them...So everybody is a special little snowflake, to quote Chuck Pohlaniak...the result: no one feels bad about what they SHOULD feel bad about, or has any feeling for anyone else. It's a generation of narcissistic, lazy, unempathetic "me" people.

No wonder they get shocked when life gets real and their helicopter parents can't save them from what they were raised to be. I had a student (this is college), complain about getting a 'd'...why? She didn't turn in the final assignment and clearly put no effort in the tests...you know what she said to me, crying? "But I was here!" I was confused, huh? "But I came to class!" She thought her PRESENCE was worthy of not only a passing grade but a good one. IT WAS HER PARENTS FAULT, IT WAS HER HIGH SCHOOLS FAULT, BUT SHE WAS THE ONE WHO PAID THE PRICE.
This is the generation that is killing it's children. Melinda, Casey, Stacey, etc.

All imos. And I'm off my soapbox now.


I tought at a Technical College and had some of the same prolems. I call it hitting the wall. When you do something wrong you are held responsible. Now, that is a lot easier when someone is a toddler than when they are an adult. You know, it hurts less and doesn't last as long when you "hit the wall" as a child. As an adult, you end up in jail and someone else can end up dead.

[deacon]

it reminds me that Cindy really needs to visit Victoria's Secret...meow!

Gag me with a spoon! Now that was a revolting mind picture. *where is that puke icon*

[eatcupcakes]

He was requested to take a lie detector test along with Cindy and George. He refused to take one without a subpeona and told C&G the same thing. I believe the subpeona was issued. LE isn't going to say whether or not one was taken. There was a lot of discussion on this back in late summer.

Gator

If one was taken I am sure LE would be yelling it from the roof top if he failed and he would be yelling it from the same roof if he passed. LOL

[Amy]

What is going on with all these young mothers killing their babies. I think part an parcel of this is that so many celebs are having babies and it looks glamorous to these young girls. They get preggers and after the kids are born they see it's not so glam. The celebs have lots of money and nanny's. These girls now have to take care of the kid or kids themselves and can't cope with it. Now we have the young mother in CA who first said the kid was kidnapped then admitts it was an accident that the kid smothered.

So your baby smothers by accident, you don't rush to the ER and hope they can bring the baby back, save her. You don't go for help instead you dump the baby by the side of the road. I am not buying that story. I had a baby when I was 19. I loved him to death and would have died for him. If this had happened I would have been screaming all the way to the ER and begging for them to save him. Something is very wrong out there in the world today. Are we raising unfeeling people. Is this what the Computer Age has given us.

Not so much unfeeling people as ME FIRST people. Selfish. Kids who want what they want and they want it now.

Kids who insist they want a certain thing, and won't listen to anyone about how that will affect the rest of their lives. They are thinking only in the minute. So, a girl has a baby, cuz she thinks it's someone who will love HER regardless, maybe thinking it is a way to keep boyfriend w/her forever. Not thinking about the changes in her lifestyle having a baby will bring--financially, socially, just the fact that a baby is a full time job, takes a lot of time, a lot of patience, and you have to put the baby's needs above yours.

So, gee, that didn't turn out the way I tho't it would. Now I'm stuck with baby, baby's daddy is off w/the new girlfriend, mom (whom I live w/and who pretty much supports us) insists I have to spend more time w/the baby, and mom's off working when I need her to take care of the baby so I can go to the parties all my friends are going to.

So, without stopping to really think about the changes in her life the next step will bring....the only way to be rid of the responsibilities and sacrifices (and I don't love the baby so much, cuz I hate her daddy who ran off w/someone else, and she looks like him, etc etc etc) is to get rid of the baby.

You do have to wonder where they get the idea, tho. They must not follow the cases about baby killing to the end--where the parent gets caught and spends the rest of his/her life in prison. The place where they STILL won't get to go to all the parties, and don't even get to go to the 7-11 for a coke!!!

[Amy]

I wonder if there was any gas in the car when they towed it. Inquiring prosecutors will want to know.

IIRC, the tow guys didn't have a need to know, as they towed, didn't drive. But, I do remember that George either took gas to the tow yard, or left and brought gas back to the towyard. If he took the gas in the first place, he either knew (how?) or suspected it was out of gas cuz Casey seemed to run out of gas on a regular basis. But, come to think of it, I don't remember him nor the tow guy talking about actually putting the gas in the car. I was going to say, did they check the gauge, but supposedly the gas gauge was broken.

[Amy]

I call NG sheer entertainment. She is very deliberate about her behaviors. IMO This makes people mad, which makes them think about her, which makes her lots of money. I've often thought some of her attacks were pre rehearsed and her TH victims are prepared for them. I confess that I sometimes watch her program just because I hate her. ;)

It was refreshing to see her show last night without the Anthony's add nausea videos plastered all over the screen and that God forsaken song, "Gone Too Soon" playing around with my heart. Sigh ~~~

I think you have something there. When I watch, I think, if I were that TH I would think about walking off the set or hanging up the phone. And I certainly would not consent to return for more of the same. Well....unless I were getting something out of it. Something more than just having my name and face plastered on national tv, maybe a bit of a cut of the action? lol Some just kind of sit there w/a grin on their faces, waiting for her tirade to die down. Gotta wonder what they are getting out of it, tho.

I must say, tho, as I watch it, the one who looks like a foolish baboon @ the moment is NG, not the "poor hapless TH."

[Amy]

Its not the computer age, imo. It is the age of "high self-esteem". Started in the 1970's. No one should feel bad about themselves or their actions, right? There's no such thing as losing, right, its all about being there, right? It might damage their self-esteem, right? Everybody should get a gold star, no one gets a failing grade, no child should hear "bad" or "no", everything they do is just perfect because they are them...So everybody is a special little snowflake, to quote Chuck Pohlaniak...the result: no one feels bad about what they SHOULD feel bad about, or has any feeling for anyone else. It's a generation of narcissistic, lazy, unempathetic "me" people.

No wonder they get shocked when life gets real and their helicopter parents can't save them from what they were raised to be. I had a student (this is college), complain about getting a 'd'...why? She didn't turn in the final assignment and clearly put no effort in the tests...you know what she said to me, crying? "But I was here!" I was confused, huh? "But I came to class!" She thought her PRESENCE was worthy of not only a passing grade but a good one. IT WAS HER PARENTS FAULT, IT WAS HER HIGH SCHOOLS FAULT, BUT SHE WAS THE ONE WHO PAID THE PRICE.

This is the generation that is killing it's children. Melinda, Casey, Stacey, etc.

All imos. And I'm off my soapbox now.

EXACTLY!!!! You said it so much better than I did.

[CelticDawn]

I think you have something there. When I watch, I think, if I were that TH I would think about walking off the set or hanging up the phone. And I certainly would not consent to return for more of the same. Well....unless I were getting something out of it. Something more than just having my name and face plastered on national tv, maybe a bit of a cut of the action? lol Some just kind of sit there w/a grin on their faces, waiting for her tirade to die down. Gotta wonder what they are getting out of it, tho.

I must say, tho, as I watch it, the one who looks like a foolish baboon @ the moment is NG, not the "poor hapless TH."

I think these people that go on Nancys show HAVE to know exactly what they are in for.....Its done for ratings....its her style.....Ive wanted to crawl thru the cable wire at her for her rudeness even when I was in total agreement with her!

[Amy]

Hi Nawny, love the new avatar. You are so talented.

The closet thing I have come up with regarding the green is that it is probably the Liar's favorite color and the Liar has that shamrock tattoo on her butt. So I come to the conclusion that Cindy is wearing bright green so that if the Liar sees a picture or the tv news, she will know her mother is supporting her. Cindy should just get a shamrock tat on her face. Then we can call her Buttface. Oh, I'm bad. :D That video where the Liar is playing on the floor with her daugher shows the Liar wearing that bright green color.

Gator

And Gator hits one out of the park, too!!! We are on a roll here!!!! lol!!!

[Amy]

You are soooo right!! Excellent post. What is scary is they are still doing this is school. Teachers in my area have been instructed not to use red pens to correct papers. It's too "harsh". They all need a swift kick in the azz if you ask me right after their parents.

I don't know for sure when it all started, but it has snowballed. I hit adult-hood in the early 70's, and I can tell you as a child of the 60's--@ least where I grew up, there was no molly-coddling of kids. We learned to work, to be responsible for our actions--you try to blame someone else for what YOU did, you were quickly relieved of the idea that someone else can "make" you do something you knew in the first place was WRONG!!! In fact, blaming someone else usually increased the punishment.

Then, along the way, someone got the idea that the parents are responsible for ALL a child does (even after the so-called child was full grown.) All of a sudden, all families were "dysfunctional" no matter how they lived their lives, no matter what values they taught their children. Or, some teacher "scarred" the child for life @ some point (giving him a D for not handing in assignments or for not getting any questions right on the test, etc.)

Heck, in addition to not being allowed to spank (not beat, but spank) children has even morphed into not being allowed to remove privileges or sending them to a time out chair---MY GOD, THAT CHILD IS GOING TO BE SCARRED FOR LIFE, HAVING TO SIT IN HIS CHAIR, NO PHONE FOR TEXTING, NO XBOX 360 TO OCCUPY HIS MIND. YOU MEAN TO TELL ME HE HAS TO SIT THERE AND THINK ABOUT WHAT GOT HIM INTO TIME OUT IN THE FIRST PLACE???? CHILD ABUSE!!!! LOCK UP THAT PARENT!!!!!

[One2Snoop]

Could Accident Explain Casey's 'Ugly Coping'?
Attorney Looks At Possible Anthony Defense

POSTED: 10:19 pm EDT April 28, 2009
UPDATED: 3:52 pm EDT April 30, 2009

ORLANDO, Fla. -- Prosecutors in the case against Casey Anthony better be prepared for her to take the stand and claim her daughter's death was an accident.

That's the reaction of an Orlando defense attorney to a WESH 2 special report on a possible explanation for Anthony's odd behavior after her daughter Caylee disappeared. (Details on that report are below).

To best use this so-called "ugly coping" defense, that attorney says Anthony will have to tell the jury the traumatic event that sparked her odd behavior and lies was Caylee's accidental death.

Caylee Anthony's exact cause of death has not been determined. And defense attorney Richard Hornsby said that fact leaves the door open for Casey Anthony to claim she knew about Caylee's death but did not kill her.

" First, you put her on the stand and say it was an accident," Hornsby said. "After traumatic events, people act strangely and not everybody acts the same. I don't think Jose Baez will have trouble getting someone to testify to that general principle.

To make this strategy work, Hornsby says Baez will have to show Anthony was reacting to a traumatic event. A tragic accident would be that event. And Anthony could use the ugly coping concept to admit she partied, and told a string of lies. And at the same time explain he way OUT of a capitol murder charge.

Hornsby said he does not think Casey can successfully use ugly coping as a reason for her actions if she continues to claim a babysitter no one has ever seen kidnapped Caylee.

http://www.wesh.com/news/19317898/detail.html

[One2Snoop]

Wooded lot that held Caylee Anthony's remains still for sale

Amy L. Edwards | Sentinel Staff Writer
4:51 PM EDT, April 30, 2009

The wooded lot where Caylee Marie Anthony's remains were uncovered is still for sale, a real estate agent told the Orlando Sentinel on Thursday.

The property, on Suburban Drive in east Orange County, is not under contract, Realtor Tina Martin stated in an e-mail.

Martin said the property may possibly be marketed on eBay in the near future.

She requests only interested potential buyers contact their office. Martin also said the memorial that has been created on the land may be addressed as the potential buyer desires.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/orl-bk-casey-anthony-land-sale-043001,0,2907768.story

[Amy]

Could Accident Explain Casey's 'Ugly Coping'?
Attorney Looks At Possible Anthony Defense

POSTED: 10:19 pm EDT April 28, 2009
UPDATED: 3:52 pm EDT April 30, 2009

ORLANDO, Fla. -- Prosecutors in the case against Casey Anthony better be prepared for her to take the stand and claim her daughter's death was an accident.

That's the reaction of an Orlando defense attorney to a WESH 2 special report on a possible explanation for Anthony's odd behavior after her daughter Caylee disappeared. (Details on that report are below).

To best use this so-called "ugly coping" defense, that attorney says Anthony will have to tell the jury the traumatic event that sparked her odd behavior and lies was Caylee's accidental death.

Caylee Anthony's exact cause of death has not been determined. And defense attorney Richard Hornsby said that fact leaves the door open for Casey Anthony to claim she knew about Caylee's death but did not kill her.

" First, you put her on the stand and say it was an accident," Hornsby said. "After traumatic events, people act strangely and not everybody acts the same. I don't think Jose Baez will have trouble getting someone to testify to that general principle.

To make this strategy work, Hornsby says Baez will have to show Anthony was reacting to a traumatic event. A tragic accident would be that event. And Anthony could use the ugly coping concept to admit she partied, and told a string of lies. And at the same time explain he way OUT of a capitol murder charge.

Hornsby said he does not think Casey can successfully use ugly coping as a reason for her actions if she continues to claim a babysitter no one has ever seen kidnapped Caylee.

http://www.wesh.com/news/19317898/detail.html

IMO, attorneys and other TH's who spout off to reporters or get shows like NG, JVM, etc, should really read up on the case they are asking to comment on. I don't for one nanosecond believe Casey Anthony will get on that stand and testify. Oh, for sure, Jose could get her to answer questions such as this attorney says could be a way to go. But said attorney isn't factoring in CROSS EXAMINATION and no way, no how is Casey Anthony gonna face that cross examination!!! Don't think Jose would even ENCOURAGE her to. They are most afraid of cross exam--getting on that stand opens her to stuff she isn't gonna discuss. Hmmm. When it gets to the defendant getting on the stand, can s/he claim the 5th and not answer questions in their own trial?

And, once the jury hears that this "odd behaviour," this "ugly coping" went on for a full month with seeming NO RETURN TO REALITY, in spite of daily contact with the grandmother asking to see and talk to her granddaughter---they aren't going to buy fugue, amnesia, ugly coping or any other reasons used to soft peddle the fact that Casey Anthony murdered her daughter and dumped her remains (sorry George, they are what they are.) For every "expert" Jose can come up with, prosecution can probably have on hand 10 to refute Jose's expert's testimony. Wonder if he will call on the joker doctor from CA who claims you determine due date of a baby by when the baby shower is!!!:biggrin: Really, that is probably the only type of expert he would get to say ugly coping is a reality. Gotta remember, there can't be too much money left in the coffers to pay for expert testimony, what with is it now 10 lawyers and experts on the defense team? I don't know of any psychiatrist who wants to get his 15 minutes of fame in a high profile case by looking like a total bafoon---nope, methinks one would demand quite a chunk of change to do that.

[Amy]

Wooded lot that held Caylee Anthony's remains still for sale

Amy L. Edwards | Sentinel Staff Writer
4:51 PM EDT, April 30, 2009

The wooded lot where Caylee Marie Anthony's remains were uncovered is still for sale, a real estate agent told the Orlando Sentinel on Thursday.

The property, on Suburban Drive in east Orange County, is not under contract, Realtor Tina Martin stated in an e-mail.

Martin said the property may possibly be marketed on eBay in the near future.

She requests only interested potential buyers contact their office. Martin also said the memorial that has been created on the land may be addressed as the potential buyer desires.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/orl-bk-casey-anthony-land-sale-043001,0,2907768.story

I wonder if Mr Conway and whomever spouts lies actually reads their own statements in the paper? Do they chuckle to think they have pulled the wool over the public's eyes? Do they ever feel ashamed, especially when it takes the average reporter just a few minutes to check out their statements? What the heck do they expect to accomplish with telling lies that can so easily be disproved? Did he think no one would figure out in a couple months time that no one bought that property? That no one could drive by and see the for sale signs still there? That there is no activity on cleaning up the area a bit? Geeesh!!!!:flamemad:

[mu8shark]

IMO, attorneys and other TH's who spout off to reporters or get shows like NG, JVM, etc, should really read up on the case they are asking to comment on. I don't for one nanosecond believe Casey Anthony will get on that stand and testify. Oh, for sure, Jose could get her to answer questions such as this attorney says could be a way to go. But said attorney isn't factoring in CROSS EXAMINATION and no way, no how is Casey Anthony gonna face that cross examination!!! Don't think Jose would even ENCOURAGE her to. They are most afraid of cross exam--getting on that stand opens her to stuff she isn't gonna discuss. Hmmm. When it gets to the defendant getting on the stand, can s/he claim the 5th and not answer questions in their own trial?

And, once the jury hears that this "odd behaviour," this "ugly coping" went on for a full month with seeming NO RETURN TO REALITY, in spite of daily contact with the grandmother asking to see and talk to her granddaughter---they aren't going to buy fugue, amnesia, ugly coping or any other reasons used to soft peddle the fact that Casey Anthony murdered her daughter and dumped her remains (sorry George, they are what they are.) For every "expert" Jose can come up with, prosecution can probably have on hand 10 to refute Jose's expert's testimony. Wonder if he will call on the joker doctor from CA who claims you determine due date of a baby by when the baby shower is!!!:biggrin: Really, that is probably the only type of expert he would get to say ugly coping is a reality. Gotta remember, there can't be too much money left in the coffers to pay for expert testimony, what with is it now 10 lawyers and experts on the defense team? I don't know of any psychiatrist who wants to get his 15 minutes of fame in a high profile case by looking like a total bafoon---nope, methinks one would demand quite a chunk of change to do that.Somebody should point out to Jose Baez that this ugly coping defense did not work the first time. In the case he is referring to , it is my understanding she was convicted, ugly coping defense and all, and even went to jail. She got off when new medical tests were done if I am correct, someone please correct me if I am wrong. It is not as if an appeals court heard the ugly coping thing and said, "Oh, well hell let her out." Or a new trial happened and the jury heard of ugly coping in the new trial and bought the defense. Please if someone is more familiar and I am wrong let me know but if new medical evidences got the other woman off, why would Jose think this was so successful and worked so well in the other woman's trial and because I did not follow it I can't at all comment on her guilt or the final decision but let me state for the record if she did not kill him, in my opinion, getting a boob job, going on a spending spree and sleeping around so soon after this death indicates she did not care if someone else killed him .And I guess it is not a crime to be relieved when someone offs your husband! LOL!

[Amy]

I do appreciate the links to the papers and transcripts and such.

But, I must say, whenever I see anything attributed to Jose Baez or Brad Conway, I just say, hmmmm. Then, I wait for independent verification. Such as from a reporter who has checked with the jail authorities about Casey asking for reunions and memorials and such. Or, someone who has checked the property listings and find out the crime scene property is still for sale. (Which we knew already, someone who drove by and saw the for sale sign still in place ;))

The lawyers have shot themselves in their feet, just like their clients did. Anybody following the case is not going to believe a word that comes out of their mouths--even when they tell the truth, people will want to have it verified before they will believe them. I do notice that Mr Luka hasn't been on shows and giving interviews to reporters, neither has his client. Don't know if that is because he client says no, and his lawyer better say no, too. Or if the lawyer advises against it and his client actually listens!!!

[mu8shark]

I heard the taped interview blurb on NG about from the deputy where he said it was his perception he picked up the bag and emptied it out and there was nothing there , but in reality he did not pick up the bag at all. Does this sound to anyone else like a nice way of saying,"Um yeah I lied through my ass to keep my job and now I am telling the truth." It is not as if it happened years and years ago and he does not remember. He knows what he did and did not do. Perception...pffft. what next?

[wind149]

UGLY COPING! What the f*ck is that??? Man, once again, CA is making sure that she gets that needle, those sayings are creepy, but this one stands out and it comes out of Bozo's mouth??? I can't wait for this trial to see how he is going to spin all that they have against her, the jury is going to convict her on half of this and I hate when NG shows those disgusting pictures of her every night, we all could do without those, we have seen them hundreds of times, don't need to see them every night, just like that song, "Gone To Soon" We know she is gone and by the way, does anybody know where her remains are? Are they still in a box at the funeral home??? I so want this b*tch to get the DP, she deserves it, she should have defied her parents and had an abortion or gave the child up for adoption and I am really wondering if she really even knows who the father is, sounds to me like she was a total slutbag when it came to guys and possibly women by the looks of the breast grabbing and crotch grabbing she did on dance floors with women??? I knew at a young age that I could not cope with having a child, being abused, I thought that if I had a kid, I would be just like that b*tch adoptive mother I had and I have never regretted my decision, I have had cats all my life and got love from them and I did not have to find a babysitter when friends were going on a camping trip or a motorcycle trip, my cats took care of themselves. Cindy talked her into keeping the baby and maybe at first Casey was OK with her mother taking over the care, but then she grew to resent her and we all know that fight took place and I think she murdered the kid out of spite. So did Susan Smith and Pam Smart.

[mu8shark]

I have a hard time understanding how Jose is going to tell the other story or the rest of the story and the compelling reasons why Casey did this or that and reacted this way or that without her testifying. I don't for one minute believe she will testify , but Jose can't get up there and go on and on and say Casey told me this and Casey told me that and she told me, she was afraid of this person, that is why she did not call the police or Casey told me she went to Fusion because she was looking for Zanny. It isn't going to work that way, you can't do that. Therefore this testimony, the alternate new true story is going to have to come in through a witness or two.Or an email she sent someone or a text where she tells the other half of the story, And there is no other explanation on her comp or phone, etc, and what witness can tell her story ? If Cindy got up there and said, "Well Casey told me the sky was blue. that day, " after the way Cindy has lied and lied and lied and changed her story and on tape I might add, the jury will believe it surely believe it must have been raining. So another half of a story and compelling reasons,? Through what witness and how:shrug: I don't quite get it. I think the lawyer in the article talking about the ugly coping is onto something in a way because for some of this stuff to have a chance to come in and work, it has to come in through evidence and testimony. If he tries to just introduce all kinds of crap in opening or closing, I would jump up and object,"Your honor assumes facts not in evidence/" This leaves me scratching my head.

[Gatordog]

Could Accident Explain Casey's 'Ugly Coping'?
Attorney Looks At Possible Anthony Defense

POSTED: 10:19 pm EDT April 28, 2009
UPDATED: 3:52 pm EDT April 30, 2009

ORLANDO, Fla. -- Prosecutors in the case against Casey Anthony better be prepared for her to take the stand and claim her daughter's death was an accident.

That's the reaction of an Orlando defense attorney to a WESH 2 special report on a possible explanation for Anthony's odd behavior after her daughter Caylee disappeared. (Details on that report are below).

To best use this so-called "ugly coping" defense, that attorney says Anthony will have to tell the jury the traumatic event that sparked her odd behavior and lies was Caylee's accidental death.

Caylee Anthony's exact cause of death has not been determined. And defense attorney Richard Hornsby said that fact leaves the door open for Casey Anthony to claim she knew about Caylee's death but did not kill her.

" First, you put her on the stand and say it was an accident," Hornsby said. "After traumatic events, people act strangely and not everybody acts the same. I don't think Jose Baez will have trouble getting someone to testify to that general principle.

To make this strategy work, Hornsby says Baez will have to show Anthony was reacting to a traumatic event. A tragic accident would be that event. And Anthony could use the ugly coping concept to admit she partied, and told a string of lies. And at the same time explain he way OUT of a capitol murder charge.

Hornsby said he does not think Casey can successfully use ugly coping as a reason for her actions if she continues to claim a babysitter no one has ever seen kidnapped Caylee.

http://www.wesh.com/news/19317898/detail.html

Hi O2S, the best statement on that so called ugly coping was written on the Orlando Sentinel blog. The person said, okay, she was partying and stealing because of the trauma of losing Caylee. How do you explain the years of drunken behavior, stealing and lying she did before Caylee died?

Gator

[mu8shark]

UGLY COPING! What the f*ck is that??? Man, once again, CA is making sure that she gets that needle, those sayings are creepy, but this one stands out and it comes out of Bozo's mouth??? I can't wait for this trial to see how he is going to spin all that they have against her, the jury is going to convict her on half of this and I hate when NG shows those disgusting pictures of her every night, we all could do without those, we have seen them hundreds of times, don't need to see them every night, just like that song, "Gone To Soon" We know she is gone and by the way, does anybody know where her remains are? Are they still in a box at the funeral home??? I so want this b*tch to get the DP, she deserves it, she should have defied her parents and had an abortion or gave the child up for adoption and I am really wondering if she really even knows who the father is, sounds to me like she was a total slutbag when it came to guys and possibly women by the looks of the breast grabbing and crotch grabbing she did on dance floors with women??? I knew at a young age that I could not cope with having a child, being abused, I thought that if I had a kid, I would be just like that b*tch adoptive mother I had and I have never regretted my decision, I have had cats all my life and got love from them and I did not have to find a babysitter when friends were going on a camping trip or a motorcycle trip, my cats took care of themselves. Cindy talked her into keeping the baby and maybe at first Casey was OK with her mother taking over the care, but then she grew to resent her and we all know that fight took place and I think she murdered the kid out of spite. So did Susan Smith and Pam Smart. Not to be a nitpicker and maybe I am misunderstanding your post, but Pam Smart never killed a child, she had her husband killed. And on Susan Smith, I always thought and of course it is strictly opinion that Susan Smith did not kill those kids so much out of spite to anyone as that she had her eye on a new man who said he did not want to be a daddy period. I think then the kids became a hindrance to her new man. I often wonder if some of the men Casey dated ever dumped Casey because they did not particulary want to be a Daddy to Caylee. So they just slept with Casey, used her and moved on.

[mu8shark]

Hi O2S, the best statement on that so called ugly coping was written on the Orlando Sentinel blog. The person said, okay, she was partying and stealing because of the trauma of losing Caylee. How do you explain the years of drunken behavior, stealing and lying she did before Caylee died?

Gator That is a pretty darned good point. If someone was straight laced , responsible and caring and suddenly after a traumatic event, they began to swing from the rafters and lap dance and drink and drug, it would make a lot more sense that it was ugly coping (although none of the psychiatrists seem to know it by that term) that something severe happened and they snapped from the shock, but just going on and ramping up your trampy behavior, it makes it much harder to buy.

[Gatordog]

Somebody should point out to Jose Baez that this ugly coping defense did not work the first time. In the case he is referring to , it is my understanding she was convicted, ugly coping defense and all, and even went to jail. She got off when new medical tests were done if I am correct, someone please correct me if I am wrong. It is not as if an appeals court heard the ugly coping thing and said, "Oh, well hell let her out." Or a new trial happened and the jury heard of ugly coping in the new trial and bought the defense. Please if someone is more familiar and I am wrong let me know but if new medical evidences got the other woman off, why would Jose think this was so successful and worked so well in the other woman's trial and because I did not follow it I can't at all comment on her guilt or the final decision but let me state for the record if she did not kill him, in my opinion, getting a boob job, going on a spending spree and sleeping around so soon after this death indicates she did not care if someone else killed him .And I guess it is not a crime to be relieved when someone offs your husband! LOL!

Shark, you are right. I watched that trial on Courttv and she was found guilty of murder. She was in prison for a few years when additional lab tests results were there was no poison as originally thought. That ugly coping is a crock of horse manure. She just went back to her former lifestyle.

Gator

[deacon]

:eek:Not to be a nitpicker and maybe I am misunderstanding your post, but Pam Smart never killed a child, she had her husband killed. And on Susan Smith, I always thought and of course it is strictly opinion that Susan Smith did not kill those kids so much out of spite to anyone as that she had her eye on a new man who said he did not want to be a daddy period. I think then the kids became a hindrance to her new man. I often wonder if some of the men Casey dated ever dumped Casey because they did not particulary want to be a Daddy to Caylee. So they just slept with Casey, used her and moved on.


I live in SC and the story is that the "man" broke it off with SS and she thought getting rid of the kids would "bring him back". It wouldn't have.

I also think the guys and casey used each other. :eek:

[Amy]

Not to be a nitpicker and maybe I am misunderstanding your post, but Pam Smart never killed a child, she had her husband killed. And on Susan Smith, I always thought and of course it is strictly opinion that Susan Smith did not kill those kids so much out of spite to anyone as that she had her eye on a new man who said he did not want to be a daddy period. I think then the kids became a hindrance to her new man. I often wonder if some of the men Casey dated ever dumped Casey because they did not particulary want to be a Daddy to Caylee. So they just slept with Casey, used her and moved on.

I agree that Susan Smith killed her boys because her new boyfriend didn't want to deal w/someone else's kids. But there had to be some spite somewhere--to not give David Smith full custody, or if she felt he couldn't do a good job--any of the grandparents or other relatives would have taken those boys in a heart beat. Of course, I think she also was thinking like Scott Peterson--what would giving her children up for another person make people think of her? She would be a grieving mother, get attention and sympathy if her boys were taken from her. But people might think not so highly of her if she just gave them up.

[mu8shark]

:eek:


I live in SC and the story is that the "man" broke it off with SS and she thought getting rid of the kids would "bring him back". It wouldn't have.

I also think the guys and casey used each other. :eek:I agree because let's face it she is a lying skank and I have no pity for people like her! LOL.

[mu8shark]

I agree that Susan Smith killed her boys because her new boyfriend didn't want to deal w/someone else's kids. But there had to be some spite somewhere--to not give David Smith full custody, or if she felt he couldn't do a good job--any of the grandparents or other relatives would have taken those boys in a heart beat. Of course, I think she also was thinking like Scott Peterson--what would giving her children up for another person make people think of her? She would be a grieving mother, get attention and sympathy if her boys were taken from her. But people might think not so highly of her if she just gave them up.Oh I so agree about the what would people think of her and I think this played a part in Caylee's death because let's face it she could of told her parents she would allow them to have custody or even told her parents she could not handle Caylee and being a Mom and have her adopted , but that would make Casey look bad. And one thing we know of Casey she is me, me , me , me.

[Gatordog]

UGLY COPING! What the f*ck is that??? Man, once again, CA is making sure that she gets that needle, those sayings are creepy, but this one stands out and it comes out of Bozo's mouth??? I can't wait for this trial to see how he is going to spin all that they have against her, the jury is going to convict her on half of this and I hate when NG shows those disgusting pictures of her every night, we all could do without those, we have seen them hundreds of times, don't need to see them every night, just like that song, "Gone To Soon" We know she is gone and by the way, does anybody know where her remains are? Are they still in a box at the funeral home??? I so want this b*tch to get the DP, she deserves it, she should have defied her parents and had an abortion or gave the child up for adoption and I am really wondering if she really even knows who the father is, sounds to me like she was a total slutbag when it came to guys and possibly women by the looks of the breast grabbing and crotch grabbing she did on dance floors with women??? I knew at a young age that I could not cope with having a child, being abused, I thought that if I had a kid, I would be just like that b*tch adoptive mother I had and I have never regretted my decision, I have had cats all my life and got love from them and I did not have to find a babysitter when friends were going on a camping trip or a motorcycle trip, my cats took care of themselves. Cindy talked her into keeping the baby and maybe at first Casey was OK with her mother taking over the care, but then she grew to resent her and we all know that fight took place and I think she murdered the kid out of spite. So did Susan Smith and Pam Smart.

She didn't have to defy her parents. They didn't even know she was pregnant until the seventh month. Way past the legal timeframe for an abortion . She could steal money to buy bras but not an abortion?

The Liar was happy when the baby was an aggrevation to Cindy but when Cindy was getting great pleasure from Caylee - the fun was over.

[mu8shark]

She didn't have to defy her parents. They didn't even know she was pregnant until the seventh month. Way past the legal timeframe for an abortion . She could steal money to buy bras but not an abortion?

The Liar was happy when the baby was an aggrevation to Cindy but when Cindy was getting great pleasure from Caylee - the fun was over. And can you imagine how Casey felt when she thought maybe she would be tossed out on her butt if her parents had had enough of her stealing and they would try and get custody of Caylee. There goes the meal ticket and free room and board. I think Caylee was a great tool to use in making her parents pay for this and that, because it was for Caylee. And I think Casey used that. Also I can't help but hear her saying on that phone call from jail, "All they care about is Caylee." After being the princess for years and manipulating them for years it must have galled her to no end when a new princess came along and it was not her anymore.

[Justice Denied?]

Uggh I saw this about the ugly coping and let me just ramble on this a bit. I know Baez has to try and refute things and give everything an alternate scenario. I think he is safe doing that with the forensics with a jury because let's face no matter how educated a jury is or how you try to educate them, basically they have to try and listen and weigh the experts and jurors might see two intepretations of the same tests with two different stories from experts, because they are not experts but the behavior stuff is dicey, dicey.We are all experts in how we as human beings react because we have lived, And you run the risk of insulting a jury if you try to pass of some hokey 'ugly coping 'theory . The way I see it, even if you got some psychiatrist up there to talk about this "ugly coping" jurors are going to be skeptical because we have all experienced stress , fear and grief . Even if you have never had your child kidnapped, we have all had that experience where we are worried sick over a loved one or even in shock over something horrible happening to them. There is nothing like the fear of the unknown for all human beings, like how is this going to turn out for my loved one. And I think back to my father having cancer when I was 23 about Caseys age and I did not know how it would turn out, he had surgery and died after two weeks, but in that two weeks while I was terrified about what would happen to him, I did not sleep , hardly, ate, was obsessed with what would happen to him. I can't imagine going partying or shopping or getting a tattoo in that time period.I have never seen anyone who I know in my life deal with grief and fear with ugly coping. It makes zero sense that Casey not knowing what would happen to Caylee would cause her to party and shop and never even mention it to friends and family. This ugly coping is a dangerous strategy that a jury will just not buy, Not only will they not buy it, it may color the jurys attitude towards Jose's credibility on everything else. I would not dare use something so vague and out there, because jurors will not identify with it.

I have heard of this syndrome before but not under the name "ugly coping". It sometimes happens to soldiers who see their buddies die while they survive. Or for example a car wreck victim in which several others were killed. They go out and party, like they are celebrating they are still alive while others or not or het deny the deaths. Then when this wears off they are almost comatose with grief and paralyzed with guilt. They sometimes try suicide.

Casey has never shown any grief in all the time she has been in jail, so I don't believe she has this syndrome.

[lorettalockhorn]

She didn't have to defy her parents. They didn't even know she was pregnant until the seventh month. Way past the legal timeframe for an abortion . She could steal money to buy bras but not an abortion?

The Liar was happy when the baby was an aggrevation to Cindy but when Cindy was getting great pleasure from Caylee - the fun was over.

Something tells me that G&C, especially Cindy didn't admit that Casey was pregnant until the seventh month. These people are all about denial.

ITA with your assessment that for Casey the fun was over.

[lorettalockhorn]

I have a hard time understanding how Jose is going to tell the other story or the rest of the story and the compelling reasons why Casey did this or that and reacted this way or that without her testifying. I don't for one minute believe she will testify , but Jose can't get up there and go on and on and say Casey told me this and Casey told me that and she told me, she was afraid of this person, that is why she did not call the police or Casey told me she went to Fusion because she was looking for Zanny. It isn't going to work that way, you can't do that. Therefore this testimony, the alternate new true story is going to have to come in through a witness or two.Or an email she sent someone or a text where she tells the other half of the story, And there is no other explanation on her comp or phone, etc, and what witness can tell her story ? If Cindy got up there and said, "Well Casey told me the sky was blue. that day, " after the way Cindy has lied and lied and lied and changed her story and on tape I might add, the jury will believe it surely believe it must have been raining. So another half of a story and compelling reasons,? Through what witness and how:shrug: I don't quite get it. I think the lawyer in the article talking about the ugly coping is onto something in a way because for some of this stuff to have a chance to come in and work, it has to come in through evidence and testimony. If he tries to just introduce all kinds of crap in opening or closing, I would jump up and object,"Your honor assumes facts not in evidence/" This leaves me scratching my head.

The other half of the story is going to have to come from paid testimony. Because it won't be from friends or family, and if G&C don't get on the stick and find The Real Zanny, what else can Jose produce? And you know the prosecution is going to make the ugly coping excuse look ugly when they ask the defense for a DRG.

[mu8shark]

I have heard of this syndrome before but not under the name "ugly coping". It sometimes happens to soldiers who see their buddies die while they survive. Or for example a car wreck victim in which several others were killed. They go out and party, like they are celebrating they are still alive while others or not or het deny the deaths. Then when this wears off they are almost comatose with grief and paralyzed with guilt. They sometimes try suicide.

Casey has never shown any grief in all the time she has been in jail, so I don't believe she has this syndrome. I have absolutely seen people who because of stress and grief turn to alchohol or drugs and I find that believable. Not saying a great way to handle it because you have to face the truth sometime but it happens, but you are right, there was no point in which she began to be depressed and fearful or showed a single symptom. Even in the jail tapes she talks ad nauseum about what it has done to her, her , her. There are a few random mentions of missing her little girl and hoping she comes home, but not sincere or emotional at all. It rings hollow. And again in the case he sites , the defendant's going free had zero to do with this defense. Maybe he should do his research!

[Justice Denied?]

In several trials I have read about the court does not allow these buttons to be worn even if it is just a button of the love or support for the victim. I bet they will not be allowed to.

The one hing I hope is that if George and cindy testify, they are made to get rid of their gum beforehand.

[mu8shark]

The other half of the story is going to have to come from paid testimony. Because it won't be from friends or family, and if G&C don't get on the stick and find The Real Zanny, what else can Jose produce? And you know the prosecution is going to make the ugly coping excuse look ugly when they ask the defense for a DRG. When you say paid testimony do you mean from experts or from people who are paid to lie that she told them another story? I would not think experts could testify to the real story or the other half like who and what she was supposedly afraid of that made her wait 31 days. They are going to have to come up with someone to point to who she was afraid of, maybe the mafia, or a cult, some far out thing. LOL. Everything else is far out so far. Unless the rich, beautiful nanny was part of some mob syndicate with lots of power and influence lol. I can barely say Nanny with a straight face, it's just stupid like her whole story. I know I have said this before, but she an f ing month to think up a good story. I think she gave it about 10 minutes of her time and then moved onto the dancing, drinking and stealing for the rest of the month. But I digress....

[mu8shark]

BTW, oh no who do I sound like? I did read someone's post on here about a dingo taking the baby, I guess that is out because Florida does not have dingos , but Jose did say it was a compelling story, that would certainly be compelling, wouldn't it? Sorry I am the point where I think of goofy stuff.

[lorettalockhorn]

?drg?

Diagnostic Related Group is a method of classifying illnesses for resources and payment purposes. I don't think there's a classification for ugly coping in the DSM (whichever version is current) either. So far the shrink types I've seen say it's basically made up.

[lorettalockhorn]

When you say paid testimony do you mean from experts or from people who are paid to lie that she told them another story? I would not think experts could testify to the real story or the other half like who and what she was supposedly afraid of that made her wait 31 days. They are going to have to come up with someone to point to who she was afraid of, maybe the mafia, or a cult, some far out thing. LOL. Everything else is far out so far. Unless the rich, beautiful nanny was part of some mob syndicate with lots of power and influence lol. I can barely say Nanny with a straight face, it's just stupid like her whole story. I know I have said this before, but she an f ing month to think up a good story. I think she gave it about 10 minutes of her time and then moved onto the dancing, drinking and stealing for the rest of the month. But I digress....

I am talking about the defense experts. I would think that anyone else would have already come forward. Or maybe shhhhhh it's Casey's secret bosom buddies.

[mu8shark]

I am talking about the defense experts. I would think that anyone else would have already come forward. Or maybe shhhhhh it's Casey's secret bosom buddies.Okay I got it but what about the kind of stuff like why she did not go back for the car or if she tries to put forward that the other side of the story is that Nanny is really code for Jesse Grund, that is going to have to come through a non expert. I just see lots of things about her story that if she alters it or rearranges it, are really problematic as testimony. Experts might be able to say that forensically this points to this or that but some key components about her story are going to have to change dramatically and I suspect this is why when they ask him about the Zanny story he has nothing to say. He's a boob, Loretta for even discussing all this. Maybe he needs our advice . LOL. Mine would be to plea.

[lorettalockhorn]

Okay I got it but what about the kind of stuff like why she did not go back for the car or if she tries to put forward that the other side of the story is that Nanny is really code for Jesse Grund, that is going to have to come through a non expert. I just see lots of things about her story that if she alters it or rearranges it, are really problematic as testimony. Experts might be able to say that forensically this points to this or that but some key components about her story are going to have to change dramatically and I suspect this is why when they ask him about the Zanny story he has nothing to say. He's a boob, Loretta for even discussing all this. Maybe he needs our advice . LOL. Mine would be to plea.

Oh, I agree about the problems and Bozo being a boob. There isn't anyone who can testify FOR Casey other than the defense unless Jose's been hiding his light under a bushel and he's going to go Perry Mason when he cross examines The State's witnesses.

Maybe the judge needs to get Casey in chambers and make sure that she knows that Jose A. Baez, Esquire can't get on the stand and swear under oath to tell her story. And it's insane that he's flapping his gums about his defense.

[lorettalockhorn]

Oooh, we get to make up our own disorders? Fun.

I have Ugly Dishwashing Disorder.

LMAO For me it's Ugly Mopping!

[mu8shark]

I have a question for you all. I was rereading some of Rick's emails and in several of them , he says that on Greta the neighbor said or it was reported the neighbor said that he heard someone in the pool on the 16th. Is that true? Was the neighbors interview in the documents dumped so far? Thanks and I hope someone knows the answer to this because if true it could be very important.

[mu8shark]

LMAO For me it's Ugly Mopping! I have ugly feet disorder because they freaking hurt every single day.

[katfish]

I have a question for you all. I was rereading some of Rick's emails and in several of them , he says that on Greta the neighbor said or it was reported the neighbor said that he heard someone in the pool on the 16th. Is that true? Was the neighbors interview in the documents dumped so far? Thanks and I hope someone knows the answer to this because if true it could be very important.

His interview with the police has been released. Can't tell you his name, but I think it came out with the Feb 18 dump. I remember reading it. It's the "shovel" neighbor.

[lorettalockhorn]

His interview with the police has been released. Can't tell you his name, but I think it came out with the Feb 18 dump. I remember reading it. It's the "shovel" neighbor.

Brian Burner?

[katfish]

Brian Burner?

YEP< LOL, I just came back to say that! Went and looked it up.

[DrewBerry]

UGLY COPING! What the f*ck is that??? Man, once again, CA is making sure that she gets that needle, those sayings are creepy, but this one stands out and it comes out of Bozo's mouth??? I can't wait for this trial to see how he is going to spin all that they have against her, the jury is going to convict her on half of this and I hate when NG shows those disgusting pictures of her every night, we all could do without those, we have seen them hundreds of times, don't need to see them every night, just like that song, "Gone To Soon" We know she is gone and by the way, does anybody know where her remains are? Are they still in a box at the funeral home??? I so want this b*tch to get the DP, she deserves it, she should have defied her parents and had an abortion or gave the child up for adoption and I am really wondering if she really even knows who the father is, sounds to me like she was a total slutbag when it came to guys and possibly women by the looks of the breast grabbing and crotch grabbing she did on dance floors with women??? I knew at a young age that I could not cope with having a child, being abused, I thought that if I had a kid, I would be just like that b*tch adoptive mother I had and I have never regretted my decision, I have had cats all my life and got love from them and I did not have to find a babysitter when friends were going on a camping trip or a motorcycle trip, my cats took care of themselves. Cindy talked her into keeping the baby and maybe at first Casey was OK with her mother taking over the care, but then she grew to resent her and we all know that fight took place and I think she murdered the kid out of spite. So did Susan Smith and Pam Smart.

Hey Wind! I love reading your posts! You are willing to write stuff that some of us are thinking but not saying. You're a straight shooter and honest and direct. I'm not into sugar-coating painful experiences. The Ants. have all pussy-footed around the Liar her entire life. ITA, that physical fight between Cindy and Casey DID happen. I believe that pushed Casey over the edge and she murdered Caylee out of spite and hate for Cindy. I'm willing to bet that Lee knows what happened and is promising to help his precious CMA!! Barf!
DrewB

[mu8shark]

Okay I read what I could of this before I got this red empty page in the middle of the interview. But so far a few things. One this neighbor could not have heard any fight on the night of the 15th. It must have been another neighbor. He admits he was on vacation and did not return until the night of the 16th at 6 pm. Secondly he does not say anything about hearing anyone in the pool on the 16th because he was not home. However he does say he saw Casey at her parents house on the 17th, the day she borrowed the shovel and on the 18th when she again backed her car in the garage and then again on June 20 with a man in a truck. Was that Tony the man with the truck, do we know that? I wonder if it is another neighbor who supposedly heard the fight who may have heard someone in the pool on the 16th? Also , I read on another board that Cindy and George kept the ladder in the shed and so that is why they were shocked about the ladder being by the pool. I had understood the ladder was kept at the side of the pool but up so Caylee could not reach it. I think the poster must be mistaken about it being kept in the locked shed. Anyhow, not much there except shovel testimony.

[lorettalockhorn]

MU, how about Jean Couty?

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5688720/Casey-Anthony-Neighbor-Jean-Couty-transcript

[Native Alien]

I am so far behind on this case I will likely spend the weekend reading. Just to catch up and that isn't including the documents that they say are going to be released today.

The link that Loretta posted is the only neighbor that I can think of that actually says anything about hearing any argument. I don't know about the pool ladder because I don't trust what George and Cindy say anyway.

[Amy]

Okay I read what I could of this before I got this red empty page in the middle of the interview. But so far a few things. One this neighbor could not have heard any fight on the night of the 15th. It must have been another neighbor. He admits he was on vacation and did not return until the night of the 16th at 6 pm. Secondly he does not say anything about hearing anyone in the pool on the 16th because he was not home. However he does say he saw Casey at her parents house on the 17th, the day she borrowed the shovel and on the 18th when she again backed her car in the garage and then again on June 20 with a man in a truck. Was that Tony the man with the truck, do we know that? I wonder if it is another neighbor who supposedly heard the fight who may have heard someone in the pool on the 16th? Also , I read on another board that Cindy and George kept the ladder in the shed and so that is why they were shocked about the ladder being by the pool. I had understood the ladder was kept at the side of the pool but up so Caylee could not reach it. I think the poster must be mistaken about it being kept in the locked shed. Anyhow, not much there except shovel testimony.

I do remember in initial neighbor interviews that one neighbor had said he had heard loud arguing coming from the Anthony house on the evening/night of the 15th. So, maybe the neighbor on the other side? Or even across the street, or behind. Can't remember exactly where this one lived, but he did say so in an interview, and I do think that was before all the stuff about Casey leaving the house (whether it was the 15th or 16th) and taking Caylee w/her.

[eatcupcakes]

Not so much unfeeling people as ME FIRST people. Selfish. Kids who want what they want and they want it now.

Kids who insist they want a certain thing, and won't listen to anyone about how that will affect the rest of their lives. They are thinking only in the minute. So, a girl has a baby, cuz she thinks it's someone who will love HER regardless, maybe thinking it is a way to keep boyfriend w/her forever. Not thinking about the changes in her lifestyle having a baby will bring--financially, socially, just the fact that a baby is a full time job, takes a lot of time, a lot of patience, and you have to put the baby's needs above yours.

So, gee, that didn't turn out the way I tho't it would. Now I'm stuck with baby, baby's daddy is off w/the new girlfriend, mom (whom I live w/and who pretty much supports us) insists I have to spend more time w/the baby, and mom's off working when I need her to take care of the baby so I can go to the parties all my friends are going to.

So, without stopping to really think about the changes in her life the next step will bring....the only way to be rid of the responsibilities and sacrifices (and I don't love the baby so much, cuz I hate her daddy who ran off w/someone else, and she looks like him, etc etc etc) is to get rid of the baby.

You do have to wonder where they get the idea, tho. They must not follow the cases about baby killing to the end--where the parent gets caught and spends the rest of his/her life in prison. The place where they STILL won't get to go to all the parties, and don't even get to go to the 7-11 for a coke!!!

Very good analigy, I think most people who commit crimes think they can get away with it. Casey thinks she is, won't she be surprised.

[eatcupcakes]

Could Accident Explain Casey's 'Ugly Coping'?
Attorney Looks At Possible Anthony Defense

POSTED: 10:19 pm EDT April 28, 2009
UPDATED: 3:52 pm EDT April 30, 2009

ORLANDO, Fla. -- Prosecutors in the case against Casey Anthony better be prepared for her to take the stand and claim her daughter's death was an accident.

That's the reaction of an Orlando defense attorney to a WESH 2 special report on a possible explanation for Anthony's odd behavior after her daughter Caylee disappeared. (Details on that report are below).

To best use this so-called "ugly coping" defense, that attorney says Anthony will have to tell the jury the traumatic event that sparked her odd behavior and lies was Caylee's accidental death.

Caylee Anthony's exact cause of death has not been determined. And defense attorney Richard Hornsby said that fact leaves the door open for Casey Anthony to claim she knew about Caylee's death but did not kill her.

" First, you put her on the stand and say it was an accident," Hornsby said. "After traumatic events, people act strangely and not everybody acts the same. I don't think Jose Baez will have trouble getting someone to testify to that general principle.

To make this strategy work, Hornsby says Baez will have to show Anthony was reacting to a traumatic event. A tragic accident would be that event. And Anthony could use the ugly coping concept to admit she partied, and told a string of lies. And at the same time explain he way OUT of a capitol murder charge.

Hornsby said he does not think Casey can successfully use ugly coping as a reason for her actions if she continues to claim a babysitter no one has ever seen kidnapped Caylee.

http://www.wesh.com/news/19317898/detail.html

Okay if it was an accident, how does she explain away the duct tape on Caylee mouth.

[eatcupcakes]

Shark, you are right. I watched that trial on Courttv and she was found guilty of murder. She was in prison for a few years when additional lab tests results were there was no poison as originally thought. That ugly coping is a crock of horse manure. She just went back to her former lifestyle.

Gator

When I watched this trial I never thought the woman was guilty and thouth it was a travisty of justice that she was convicted. Lets say for argument sake that she was acting out ugly coping. It was her husband who died not her baby. She was looking for another man to protect her and this is how she went about doing it. This may be the way she met her husband. She was really tramatized, she never expected to loose the man she loved and be left alone with children to raise. This is certainly not the same case at all. Even if Casey did not kill Caylee, which I beleive she did, she was not unhappy to see her go. She was cerebrating, thats what she was doing.

[eatcupcakes]

Ugly toilet cleaning. That is really ugly!!!

[eatcupcakes]

That poor guy! All he did was buy a house next to the Anthony's. Man! He has been through hell! The SOCIOPATH nest door indeed!!! I'm sure he didn't plan on having this crap on his canvass. This trial is going to be somethin else!

I just love that line THE SOCIOPATH nest door, it sure does seem like a nest of them.

[Gatordog]

WFTV reports that they are on their way to pick up hundreds of pages of documents and reports that are being released this morning. They were given as discovery last week to the Defense Team, if you can call them that. I wonder if this "team" is the largest ever put together to defend one person?

Gator

[Gatordog]

Good going John Morgan, hit em where it hurts - their pocketbook. Make the Ants pay for any additional expenses associated with having to have another deposition because they were hostile witnesses. I hope Cindy wears green again. It really did make her look more like the Grinch. That was priceless.

Gator


From WFTV.Com:

MOTION FILED TO FORCE CINDY ANTHONY TO ANSWER QUESTIONS

In the case against Casey Anthony, the law firm representing Zenaida Gonzalez in a defamation lawsuit against Casey wants a judge to force Cindy Anthony to answer more questions and to pay for their costs.

Friday, the law firm filed a motion to compel (read motion) Cindy Anthony to answer whether Casey ever used Cindy's credit cards without her permission. Cindy refused to answer the question in the first deposition.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DOCUMENT: Read Motion To Compel
CINDY DEPO: Part 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | Read | Images

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Gonzalez is suing Casey, because she claimed a babysitter with the same name kidnapped Caylee.

A judge will hear the issue on May 21.

[Amy]

WFTV reports that they are on their way to pick up hundreds of pages of documents and reports that are being released this morning. They were given as discovery last week to the Defense Team, if you can call them that. I wonder if this "team" is the largest ever put together to defend one person?

Gator

I don't suppose that OJ, Spector, Micheal Peterson or Robert Durst had that many folks on their "teams"--and they PAID for theirs!!!! She sure does have a lot of folk willing to do her case pro bono *cough cough*

[eatcupcakes]

Roy Kronk's supervisor:

http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Stories/Local/alexroberts.pdf

Kronk was talking about getting a reward when Roberts got to the site of the find. That they all had teased him about finding a body when they found the snake.

My observation: These guys really waste government time when they are on the job, goofing around, hunting for reward-laden skeletons, playing "grab-a**" (yeah, that's a laundered quote)...Gator, you are not getting your tax dollars-worth! And...can we not give anyone a reward who does a happy dance upon finding a body?

How do you know he danced. But sure we can give the reward to a victory dancer. That is why they put a reward on finding bodies so people will look for them and the incentive is $$$$. They got what they wanted, the body and he thought he was geting big money so he danced. How much did he finally get. I remember LP had taken the big money off the table a few days or week befor she was found.

[Gatordog]

Thanks java-I remember one of the Docs talking about it on NG-he stated it would only show up with prolonged use. Dang i was hoping it was there-oh well lots of evidence and more to come. MOO

No long term drug use = no accident. JMO

Gator

[One2Snoop]

Lab Tests Do Not Link Anthony Evidence
New Documents Released In Anthony Case

POSTED: Thursday, April 30, 2009
UPDATED: 12:37 pm EDT May 1, 2009

snip
Results also showed the duct tape did not have any fingerprints on it.

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/19336694/detail.html#-

[One2Snoop]

I wonder why they released the duct tape doc in this one since it had already been released before?

It had? :confused: I thought it was just rumors? Guess I better go read up...:read:

Happy Friday everyone! :seeya:

[One2Snoop]

To clarify-that tape was likely cut when removed from Caylee we concluded? Hey i am sleep deprived so lord knows-it did pop into my brain tho when i read the question.

I don't have that excuse LOL !

[One2Snoop]

Bump....

This debate about the fingerprints going on in other board and I am posting a reply that someone put on there "Sentinel current article says no finger prints found on duct tape. Reports do not state this fact. The report only states that there were no latent prints matching George, Cindy, or Lee on the duct tape. Thought it odd that the report does not address elimination of Casey's latent prints from the duct tape. Could this omission of facts be deliberate? Will it be addressed at a later date? " This is why I want to see exact page on report but it is so crucial if they are maybe withholding this.

Page 3781

do i rock or what?

"The requested latent print examinations were conducted, but no latent prints were detected."

[One2Snoop]

java..........http://i40.tinypic.com/2jaxj0o.jpg

...and don't you forget it! http://i42.tinypic.com/mk18h.jpg

lol!

[Amy]

How do you know he danced. But sure we can give the reward to a victory dancer. That is why they put a reward on finding bodies so people will look for them and the incentive is $$$$. They got what they wanted, the body and he thought he was geting big money so he danced. How much did he finally get. I remember LP had taken the big money off the table a few days or week befor she was found.

LP's reward was taken off longer than just a week or so before. His offer of a reward had a timeline attached, and that time line had run its course.

But, there WAS still a reward on the table. I can't remember where the funds from the reward came from. There was a reward associated w/the A's, but that was for a LIVE Caylee. Don't know if that reward morphed into the fund to find Caylee even if she wasn't alive.

Kronk did not get the reward that was on the table @ the time of the discovery because the city regulations were such that a city employee is not eligible for a reward for something occuring during their shift of duty. I think it was NeJames who finally put up $5000 for him. Altho, I think I remember that LP was going to do something for him, too. So, I don't know if the $5000 was from NeJames or LP.

[One2Snoop]

Lab Test Results Shed No Light On Caylee's Death
Land Where Caylee Anthony Found Heads To Auction

POSTED: 7:46 am EDT May 1, 2009
UPDATED: 3:54 pm EDT May 1, 2009
snip

Also, according to the newest documents it wasn't just a meter reader but also a volunteer searcher who tipped off deputies to the location where Caylee's remains eventually were found. This was in August 2008, and one volunteer searcher told authorities he even took some of the evidence straight to Cindy Anthony, who is Casey Anthony's mother.

Keith Williams, 30, of Orlando grew up in the Casey Anthony's neighborhood and last summer returned to help search for Caylee.

In the latest documents, Williams tells investigators that on Aug. 18 while searching in the woods on his own he found a bag filled with stuffed animals not far from the area where Caylee's body would eventually be found in December 2008.

Williams immediately took the bag to Cindy Anthony, who said she didn't recognize it or the toys inside.

But a tip Williams said he got from a psychic indicating Caylee may be buried in that area nagged at him, so he called the Orange County Sheriff's Office and met Deputy Richard Cain at the scene.

According to Williams, Cain grabbed the bag of toys, looked at it and said it was "too deteriorated" to be anything significant and then tossed it back in the woods.

This occurred just five days after Deputy Cain is accused of failing to respond properly to a call from meter reader Roy Kronk. Cain eventually lost his job over lying about the incidents. (PDF: Keith Williams Transcript Jan. 16, 2009 | PDF: Keith Williams Transcript April 14, 2009)

http://www.wesh.com/news/19340480/detail.html

:eek: WHY would Williams take possible evidence to Cindy Anthony? :confused:

Cain deserves to be fired, IMO.

[lorettalockhorn]

Lab Test Results Shed No Light On Caylee's Death
Land Where Caylee Anthony Found Heads To Auction

POSTED: 7:46 am EDT May 1, 2009
UPDATED: 3:54 pm EDT May 1, 2009
snip

Also, according to the newest documents it wasn't just a meter reader but also a volunteer searcher who tipped off deputies to the location where Caylee's remains eventually were found. This was in August 2008, and one volunteer searcher told authorities he even took some of the evidence straight to Cindy Anthony, who is Casey Anthony's mother.

Keith Williams, 30, of Orlando grew up in the Casey Anthony's neighborhood and last summer returned to help search for Caylee.

In the latest documents, Williams tells investigators that on Aug. 18 while searching in the woods on his own he found a bag filled with stuffed animals not far from the area where Caylee's body would eventually be found in December 2008.

Williams immediately took the bag to Cindy Anthony, who said she didn't recognize it or the toys inside.

But a tip Williams said he got from a psychic indicating Caylee may be buried in that area nagged at him, so he called the Orange County Sheriff's Office and met Deputy Richard Cain at the scene.

According to Williams, Cain grabbed the bag of toys, looked at it and said it was "too deteriorated" to be anything significant and then tossed it back in the woods.

This occurred just five days after Deputy Cain is accused of failing to respond properly to a call from meter reader Roy Kronk. Cain eventually lost his job over lying about the incidents. (PDF: Keith Williams Transcript Jan. 16, 2009 | PDF: Keith Williams Transcript April 14, 2009)

http://www.wesh.com/news/19340480/detail.html

:eek: WHY would Williams take possible evidence to Cindy Anthony? :confused:

Cain deserves to be fired, IMO.

ITA about Cain. Deteriorated then? And only worse later.

So. Is anyone surprised that Cindy denied the toys were Caylee's?

http://i42.tinypic.com/2myqi9v.jpg

[browneyes106]

Not to be a nitpicker and maybe I am misunderstanding your post, but Pam Smart never killed a child, she had her husband killed. And on Susan Smith, I always thought and of course it is strictly opinion that Susan Smith did not kill those kids so much out of spite to anyone as that she had her eye on a new man who said he did not want to be a daddy period. I think then the kids became a hindrance to her new man. I often wonder if some of the men Casey dated ever dumped Casey because they did not particulary want to be a Daddy to Caylee. So they just slept with Casey, used her and moved on.

I wonder the same thing about Casey's ex boyfriends too. I think probably her ex boyfriends probably the same partying/immmature attitude as her. Maybe after awhile they realized how Caylee would effect the relationship so they broke up with Casey. I think Tony was probably immature in a way when he started seeing Casey. First of all he met her through Facebook he was browsing through profiles of women and he messaged her. At one point he told that he would rather have sons than daughters because he had two younger sisters and he said he saw it tough it was to raise girls. But I also think Tony wasn't planning to get extremly serious about Casey. I find it funny that during the time he from the June 16th to the following month he didn't find it weird that Caylee wasn't around so much. I do hope Tony has matured since then.

What really bothered me about the Susan Smith case was that she didn't think at all about the father of her children. It has been known that Susan and David had a bad marriage filled with infidelity on both sides. But she should have realized that David was the only father of those children.

[browneyes106]

That poor guy! All he did was buy a house next to the Anthony's. Man! He has been through hell! The SOCIOPATH nest door indeed!!! I'm sure he didn't plan on having this crap on his canvass. This trial is going to be somethin else!

I just love that line THE SOCIOPATH nest door, it sure does seem like a nest of them.

I feel sorry for the neighbors in that neighborhood except Holly Gagne. They are probably creeped out by living in that neighborhood and the fact they used to Caylee and Casey around.

[One2Snoop]

See and that's why I asked who told the searchers at Blanchard that the stuff they found was NOT related to Caylee. I mean, look at this! :

http://i39.tinypic.com/30utzxz.png

Look at that towel! I sure hope they checked all that stuff out, including the shamrocks found there that Cindy said had no relation to Casey, who didn't like shamrocks. Casey said that park was kidnap story #2 venue, there has to be a reason!

Anything that Cindy was the source on, needs to be double-checked imo.

Holy cow, I don't remember seeing those two pics! :eek: :eek: or maybe I did see them and I forgot!

[One2Snoop]

The Evidence Released On May 1st, 2009, In Caylee’s Case……………
May 1, 2009 by niecey456


The evidence released on May 1st, 2009, in Caylee’s case was disappointing as far as the forensics, but there is a piece of the puzzle that fits, that we now can see because of the investigation into Deputy Richard Cain’s investigation of Roy Kronk’s call back in August. Check this out:

http://www.wftv.com/blank/19341758/detail.html

Now many of the interviews in this document dump surrounded that investigation and the administrative report as seen in the link above gives an overview of all of it. To me it makes it very clear that Roy Kronk did see Caylee’s remains back in August, and that Keith Williams did not. Which tells me that the defense’s montra that she was planted there is bogus. Now when I say he saw her remains in August, I don’t mean that he realized they were remains, however he did think he saw a skull then. The snake was cleared. Deputy Cain it appears did not believe that Caylee would be skeletonized at that time and he had gone to another call for Keith Williams and the toys right before that. Remember Keith was being directed by a psychic. Deputy Cain did say that where Keith lead him was further down. So Keith’s story cannot dispute Kronk’s story. We also found that Kronk was following the case and had been looking for Caylee, not urinating in the woods. Deputy Cain tried to explain his inconsistencies as he was confusing the 2 calls. If Caylee was there in August, she was there when she was put there in June. She was not planted right before she was found. Also they had a rifle shell in evidence that they kept, in case it was later discover that a gun was used in this case. No further information was given on that. IMO, Deputy Cain really dropped the ball.

One other thing, the soil samples, fingerprints on the duct tape, and the results of the hair. No drugs found in the hair. They didn’t test for chloroform. There were no latent fingerprints on the duct tape, and there was no match between soil samples found at the crime scene, and soil in the trunk, and soil in the over 22 pairs of shoes of Casey’s tested. Nancy Grace dropped the ball when she announced that soil samples found at the crime scene matched the soil samples found on tot mom’s shoes. Apparently she must have relied on a tabloid report, and did not do her homework. That was a lie. Dr. Baden was not telling the truth when he said that there was chloroform found in Caylee’s hair. They don’t have a test to prove that apparently, and never tested for that. The evidence shows that while there were no drugs found in her hair, that does not means she was not subjected to small amounts. Let me know what you think.

http://niecey456.wordpress.com/2009/05/01/the-evidence-released-on-may-1st-2009-in-caylees-case/

[lorettalockhorn]

See and that's why I asked who told the searchers at Blanchard that the stuff they found was NOT related to Caylee. I mean, look at this! :

http://i39.tinypic.com/30utzxz.png

Look at that towel! I sure hope they checked all that stuff out, including the shamrocks found there that Cindy said had no relation to Casey, who didn't like shamrocks. Casey said that park was kidnap story #2 venue, there has to be a reason!

Anything that Cindy was the source on, needs to be double-checked imo.

There was hue and cry about those items using those two pix on another board after that brouhaha that G&C created at JBP.

Considering that Cindy does not appear to want justice for Caylee, that she hasn't begun to mourn her in an any more appropriate manner (I know; it's subjective) than Casey has, and that's she's a loud mouth, gum chewing disrespectful, lying, Mean 1 grinch, I don't believe anything she has ever said. To me, she's been a harridan since the 911 call. She had to have on some level known that there was a huge chance that Caylee's body had been in that car trunk, but she was fractious and crude about the odor. FOS from the get go.

[lorettalockhorn]

So, I think I can speak for us all that this doc dump was a whopping disappointment. I tried to read between the lines, I tried leaving the house in hopes more would be dumped when I got back, but nothing.

What did we expect or hope for, but not get?

-amscot video and more; LP's and his people's interviews; what else? Ah, thanks Beemer! The hyperventilating video. I also want the photos from the disposable camera!

I think there has to be a part 2 to this doc dump...I think amscot and other juicy things are what JB got on Monday, and that stuff is delayed, does that make sense?

MU8shark was asking last night about the interview with the neighbor who heard the fight on the 15th, which I think is Mr. Couty and was released earlier, but there was also a question about neighbor(s) who heard splashing in the pool the 15th or 16th. Maybe that will show up. Had never heard efore about the neighborhood guy who had found the toys and took them to Cindy. That was an eye-opener!

JVM seemed distraught about the fact that there was no testing for chloroform; it makes sense that there would be no way to differentiate what was a natural byproduct of decomposition, but it would be nice if it was there anyway. Not really disappointed in what we got, it's just not what I expected. It would have been great for the tox report to have shown drugs, but for all we know she smothered Caylee or gave her baby Benedryl as a regular babysitter. Does that show up? Not surprised that none of the shoes matched the soil samples. So she threw them away and hit the BOGO at Payless. :shrug:

But where are those fingerprints, Leonard?!

Java, thanks for the pic of Caylee on her beach towel and the reminder about those articles!

[lighthousedazy]

These photos, the story about him finding the bag of stuff and telling Cindy...

Made the hair on the back of my neck stand up, and it's giving me the creeps.

The question is not 'what has Casey done' (answered), but "what has Cindy done?!"
Exactly. Was this Williams guy in cahoots with Cindy? All searchers are instructed that if you find anythingto let LE know immediately. This is shocking and I think it needs to be looked at by the Orange Co. SO, or either the FBI. Cindy is going to end up in jail imo. They all need to. How can these people think they are above the law?

[One2Snoop]

And as we look at the paltry evidence from the trunk, the lack of dirt samples to match, the complete absence of dna or identifiable blood...just a few hairs (I mean have you ever looked at your trunk, especially if you have dogs around?!), remember this comment from October...

*snip*
"Hornsby said he most surprised about how clean the trunk was, and believes a second suspect will surface.

"If the hypothesis that Caylee was in the trunk is true, whoever helped Miss Anthony was very intelligent, and I would have to think they had some law enforcement background," Hornsby said."
*snip*

http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Local/2008/10/24/forensic_evidence_released_in_caylee_case.html

I'm not a lost cause after all LOL! I do remember that! :tongue:

[mu8shark]

I do remember in initial neighbor interviews that one neighbor had said he had heard loud arguing coming from the Anthony house on the evening/night of the 15th. So, maybe the neighbor on the other side? Or even across the street, or behind. Can't remember exactly where this one lived, but he did say so in an interview, and I do think that was before all the stuff about Casey leaving the house (whether it was the 15th or 16th) and taking Caylee w/her.Well I just read the link Loretta posted with a second neighbor interview and I am beginning to wonder if the media heard about this interview and the two arguments with nonspecific dates and times got kind of twisted to someone heard them arguing on the 15th. It is a tough thing to figure out now if there was a fight or if Casey just told Lee the Mom almost strangled me story to justify her disappearing and being away from her Mom for a month. Was there really an argument at all? I am not sure now. I can see Casey making up a story for Lee to justify her little disappearing act. Maybe she was home long enough that night for Cindy to say something simple after the grandma got on Cindy for Casey's stealing like, "Your Grandma is not happy and we have to talk and things have to change." Or something like that and Casey because of arguments and threats before took off. It is so hard to know who is telling the truth because the whole family lies.

[mu8shark]

MU8shark was asking last night about the interview with the neighbor who heard the fight on the 15th, which I think is Mr. Couty and was released earlier, but there was also a question about neighbor(s) who heard splashing in the pool the 15th or 16th. Maybe that will show up. Had never heard efore about the neighborhood guy who had found the toys and took them to Cindy. That was an eye-opener!

JVM seemed distraught about the fact that there was no testing for chloroform; it makes sense that there would be no way to differentiate what was a natural byproduct of decomposition, but it would be nice if it was there anyway. Not really disappointed in what we got, it's just not what I expected. It would have been great for the tox report to have shown drugs, but for all we know she smothered Caylee or gave her baby Benedryl as a regular babysitter. Does that show up? Not surprised that none of the shoes matched the soil samples. So she threw them away and hit the BOGO at Payless. :shrug:

But where are those fingerprints, Leonard?!

Java, thanks for the pic of Caylee on her beach towel and the reminder about those articles!So far none of the neighbors interviews I have read put a fight exactly on the 15th. Mrs Couty is very vague and is not sure when. I have not read Mr Couty's is he specfic or does he just say he heard fights. Maybe there was no fight and Casey made it up.

[mu8shark]

These photos, the story about him finding the bag of stuff and telling Cindy...

Made the hair on the back of my neck stand up, and it's giving me the creeps.

The question is not 'what has Casey done' (answered), but "what has Cindy done?!"That towel looks identical. Is that what Casey means when she said they have not even found the clothes. Maybe she dropped some stuff at Blanchard that was Caylee's or connected to her to throw them off the trail of where the body really was.

[mu8shark]

These photos, the story about him finding the bag of stuff and telling Cindy...

Made the hair on the back of my neck stand up, and it's giving me the creeps.

The question is not 'what has Casey done' (answered), but "what has Cindy done?!"Remember there were pings of Casey at Blanchard. Did she dump some stuff at the park hoping if LE found it, it would throw them off the scent of where the body really was. I mean think about it, if CIndy had said when asked, Yes that is a towel from our house, police would do an extensive search of Blanchard and spend days combing that area carefully, but maybe when Cindy say it, she thought, I am not telling them that is a towel from our house. I mean she was going to lie about the hairbrush and lies about everything else, why not this?

[mu8shark]

Exactly. Was this Williams guy in cahoots with Cindy? All searchers are instructed that if you find anythingto let LE know immediately. This is shocking and I think it needs to be looked at by the Orange Co. SO, or either the FBI. Cindy is going to end up in jail imo. They all need to. How can these people think they are above the law?Can you clarify for me who this Williams guy is? Is he just a searcher who found this and ask Cindy if it was related? If so he may have just taken her answer as truth. If Williams is someone different let me know because I am just popping on late tonight and trying to catch up. Thanks guys.

[mu8shark]

And as we look at the paltry evidence from the trunk, the lack of dirt samples to match, the complete absence of dna or identifiable blood...just a few hairs (I mean have you ever looked at your trunk, especially if you have dogs around?!), remember this comment from October...

*snip*
"Hornsby said he most surprised about how clean the trunk was, and believes a second suspect will surface.

"If the hypothesis that Caylee was in the trunk is true, whoever helped Miss Anthony was very intelligent, and I would have to think they had some law enforcement background," Hornsby said."
*snip*

http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Local/2008/10/24/forensic_evidence_released_in_caylee_case.htmlThe soil samples don't bother me, I can see someone cleaning up and remember in the one neighbors interview her puts her at her house pulling her car into the garage two days in a row when no one else appeared to be home, once for more than an hour I believe,. Maybe she was cleaning up or vacumming. And I can't see a jury looking at all the other evidence and saying no soil samples, she must be innocent. I just don't see that as being real important. It would have been nice, but....And also on the shoes, I would toss everything I wore that night, because I would be paranoid if it were me..

[mu8shark]

No long term drug use = no accident. JMO

Gator
Excellent point as usual Gator. This is good for the prosecution, not bad!

[lorettalockhorn]

So far none of the neighbors interviews I have read put a fight exactly on the 15th. Mrs Couty is very vague and is not sure when. I have not read Mr Couty's is he specfic or does he just say he heard fights. Maybe there was no fight and Casey made it up.

Hey Mu! From the link, Jean Couty and Mr. Couty are one in the same as far as I can tell from the prelude to the interview. If not I apologize for the confusion. It sounded to me as though Melich was leading him in the direction of stating that (at least one of) the fights was the 15th.

[lighthousedazy]

Remember there were pings of Casey at Blanchard. Did she dump some stuff at the park hoping if LE found it, it would throw them off the scent of where the body really was. I mean think about it, if CIndy had said when asked, Yes that is a towel from our house, police would do an extensive search of Blanchard and spend days combing that area carefully, but maybe when Cindy say it, she thought, I am not telling them that is a towel from our house. I mean she was going to lie about the hairbrush and lies about everything else, why not this?Yes, Cindy is as much a path liar as casey. I agree and think that casey could have dropped these things in JB Park because she came up with her second story that Zenaida kidnapped Caylee there. jmo

[lorettalockhorn]

Remember there were pings of Casey at Blanchard. Did she dump some stuff at the park hoping if LE found it, it would throw them off the scent of where the body really was. I mean think about it, if CIndy had said when asked, Yes that is a towel from our house, police would do an extensive search of Blanchard and spend days combing that area carefully, but maybe when Cindy say it, she thought, I am not telling them that is a towel from our house. I mean she was going to lie about the hairbrush and lies about everything else, why not this?

It's a clearcut case of the tree don't grow far from the nut!

Here's the Williams guy:

... it wasn't just a meter reader but also a volunteer searcher who tipped off deputies to the location where Caylee's remains eventually were found. This was in August 2008, and one volunteer searcher told authorities he even took some of the evidence straight to Cindy Anthony, who is Casey Anthony's mother.

Keith Williams, 30, of Orlando grew up in the Casey Anthony's neighborhood and last summer returned to help search for Caylee.

In the latest documents, Williams tells investigators that on Aug. 18 while searching in the woods on his own he found a bag filled with stuffed animals not far from the area where Caylee's body would eventually be found in December 2008.

Williams immediately took the bag to Cindy Anthony, who said she didn't recognize it or the toys inside...

http://www.wesh.com/news/19340480/detail.html

[lorettalockhorn]

And as we look at the paltry evidence from the trunk, the lack of dirt samples to match, the complete absence of dna or identifiable blood...just a few hairs (I mean have you ever looked at your trunk, especially if you have dogs around?!), remember this comment from October...

*snip*
"Hornsby said he most surprised about how clean the trunk was, and believes a second suspect will surface.

"If the hypothesis that Caylee was in the trunk is true, whoever helped Miss Anthony was very intelligent, and I would have to think they had some law enforcement background," Hornsby said."
*snip*

http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Local/2008/10/24/forensic_evidence_released_in_caylee_case.html

Thanks for posting this; kinda fuels my disgust without having to even drink Haterade!

[lighthousedazy]

Can you clarify for me who this Williams guy is? Is he just a searcher who found this and ask Cindy if it was related? If so he may have just taken her answer as truth. If Williams is someone different let me know because I am just popping on late tonight and trying to catch up. Thanks guys.
keith Williams was one of the searchers.

"
http://www.wftv.com/blank/19342466/detail.html
I know I read somewhere on here that Keith Williams took the bag to Cindy. My mind is shattered right now. lol :confused:

eta. Page 5468 at the above link. Can't get the copy and paste to work for some reason.

[lighthousedazy]

The soil samples don't bother me, I can see someone cleaning up and remember in the one neighbors interview her puts her at her house pulling her car into the garage two days in a row when no one else appeared to be home, once for more than an hour I believe,. Maybe she was cleaning up or vacumming. And I can't see a jury looking at all the other evidence and saying no soil samples, she must be innocent. I just don't see that as being real important. It would have been nice, but....And also on the shoes, I would toss everything I wore that night, because I would be paranoid if it were me..
As Ng asked the lawyers on tonight, did you ever have a murder trial where the soil samples was the main evidence or made that much difference? (paraphased)

[lighthousedazy]

I'm kind of horrified right now, I'm just feeling this goes way back into the search, and its like, erasing Caylee if someone denied her things if they'd been found...slowly making her disappear.

Do you think Casey told them when she was home? If so, LP really made a huge mistake getting her out. Not that I didn't think so at the time, anyway...
I agree about LP. I sort of like LP's ideas but I think he had a large part in making this case the media frenzy that it is. jmo

[lorettalockhorn]

As Ng asked the lawyers on tonight, did you ever have a murder trial where the soil samples was the main evidence or made that much difference? (paraphased)

That was a great question. Don't you think LE expected the soil/composition might have changed drastically after the flooding? Yet, NG kept calling the results of the dump a torPEdo. :rolleyes:

[lorettalockhorn]

I agree about LP. I sort of like LP's ideas but I think he had a large part in making this case the media frenzy that it is. jmo

The old goat prolly smelled how big it would get and bailed her out so he could be part of it.

[mu8shark]

Well I feel like I am overposting lol but two things because I keep turning this over in my mind. Number one I just got off the phone from my cousin and she says that while Cindy certainly could of lied she also brought up the possibility that maybe this was a towel Casey purchased or had that Cindy did not know about. It is a slim probability but it is possible. It is so strange because even if Cindy was telling the truth about something like she did not recognize the towel, it is almost impossible not to suspect otherwise, which is precisely the probllem they will face at trial, even if she does tell the truth about something who would believe her? Number two unless someone can point me to the the neighbors interview who specifies the fight was the 15th and they heard it, I now really, really think it would not suprise me if Casey made the whole big fight and strangling story up. It gives her a perfect excuse to stay away for a long time, to friends and family alike. Maybe she had just decided to do it, did it and now needed a good reason to stay away so she made it up. What do you all think? I also reread Grandma and Grandma's sisters emails and both say Maybe there was a fight, maybe that was why Casey has not come around or gotten in touch with her Mom or even let Cindy see Caylee. But Grandma suspects there is something else wrong though she is never specfic and maybe Grandma in her own way was onto something.Grandma says she can't quite figure it out. If there was no fight maybe she only stayed away because the baby was dead. And think of it, the longer Casey can stay away from CIndy, the longer she can prolong any kind of a search for a dead body. ANd the longer you can leave a body out there, the better , since she killed her and had something to hide. It may be one reason why she dared not tell her friends the nanny story ahead of time, because what if one of them thought to call her parents or the police and the search got jump started early. Casey would have stayed away indefinitely if she could , all the better for her crime.

[mu8shark]

Hey Mu! From the link, Jean Couty and Mr. Couty are one in the same as far as I can tell from the prelude to the interview. If not I apologize for the confusion. It sounded to me as though Melich was leading him in the direction of stating that (at least one of) the fights was the 15th.I agree he was leading him or feeling him out, but the neighbor never comes close to saying it was on or around the 15th. No need to apologize you are a doll for finding all these links. !

[lighthousedazy]

That was a great question. Don't you think LE expected the soil/composition might have changed drastically after the flooding? Yet, NG kept calling the results of the dump a torPEdo. :rolleyes:Yes. To my understanding that area was under water for several months. Imo, it would have definitely changed the composition. And I am going to add, in my opinion, if anybody buys this land, they are a complete idiot. Swamp land. :hat:

[Twinners]

See and that's why I asked who told the searchers at Blanchard that the stuff they found was NOT related to Caylee. I mean, look at this! :

http://i39.tinypic.com/30utzxz.png

Look at that towel! I sure hope they checked all that stuff out, including the shamrocks found there that Cindy said had no relation to Casey, who didn't like shamrocks. Casey said that park was kidnap story #2 venue, there has to be a reason!

Anything that Cindy was the source on, needs to be double-checked imo.

I don't think the towel in the picture with Caylee is in the second picture. There is no white on Caylee's towel, that I could see anyway. It looks like there is quite a bit of white on the pinkish item in the second one.

JMO.

[lighthousedazy]

I don't think the towel in the picture with Caylee is in the second picture. There is no white on Caylee's towel, that I could see anyway. It looks like there is quite a bit of white on the pinkish item in the second one.

JMO.I don't know. The blue doesn't look like the swimsuit, but the pink towel, I thought could be the same. It could have been weathered and bleached out in the second pic. I can see that flower print as almost the same as in the second picture also. jmo

[mu8shark]

I don't know. The blue doesn't look like the swimsuit, but the pink towel, I thought could be the same. It could have been weathered and bleached out in the second pic. jmoI agree the bathing suits are two distinctly different colors but the pink fabric on the right and on the left both have white in them definitely and it seems like the swirly flower pattern is on both although bunched up on the right photo.

[sharlock]

Well I feel like I am overposting lol but two things because I keep turning this over in my mind. Number one I just got off the phone from my cousin and she says that while Cindy certainly could of lied she also brought up the possibility that maybe this was a towel Casey purchased or had that Cindy did not know about. It is a slim probability but it is possible. It is so strange because even if Cindy was telling the truth about something like she did not recognize the towel, it is almost impossible not to suspect otherwise, which is precisely the probllem they will face at trial, even if she does tell the truth about something who would believe her? Number two unless someone can point me to the the neighbors interview who specifies the fight was the 15th and they heard it, I now really, really think it would not suprise me if Casey made the whole big fight and strangling story up. It gives her a perfect excuse to stay away for a long time, to friends and family alike. Maybe she had just decided to do it, did it and now needed a good reason to stay away so she made it up. What do you all think? I also reread Grandma and Grandma's sisters emails and both say Maybe there was a fight, maybe that was why Casey has not come around or gotten in touch with her Mom or even let Cindy see Caylee. But Grandma suspects there is something else wrong though she is never specfic and maybe Grandma in her own way was onto something.Grandma says she can't quite figure it out. If there was no fight maybe she only stayed away because the baby was dead. And think of it, the longer Casey can stay away from CIndy, the longer she can prolong any kind of a search for a dead body. ANd the longer you can leave a body out there, the better , since she killed her and had something to hide. It may be one reason why she dared not tell her friends the nanny story ahead of time, because what if one of them thought to call her parents or the police and the search got jump started early. Casey would have stayed away indefinitely if she could , all the better for her crime.
Yep you are definitely onto something. This is going to be a hell of a trial!

[sharlock]

Lab Tests Do Not Link Anthony Evidence
New Documents Released In Anthony Case

POSTED: Thursday, April 30, 2009
UPDATED: 12:37 pm EDT May 1, 2009

snip
Results also showed the duct tape did not have any fingerprints on it.

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/19336694/detail.html#-
I am not so sure that no partials were found. Why do they never show any evidence of them having tested for Casey's fingerprints? They only ever mention the other family members which is strange to me.:confused:

[eatcupcakes]

Understanding your point here, jav ;), but MHO the reward is not for the horror of finding a body, it's for opening your mouth and saying you found a body...Wish there were statistics on how many people have seen or found things and didn't say a word for fear of possibly being implicated or they did not want the publicity.. Look at Kronk's first calls to the LE..he wanted to remain anonymous...look at the final result, his life has been skewered. I think the word 'reward' was just b*ll breaking by the guys he worked with bringing it up, "hey kronk's gonna grt reward money and take us out to dinner, man!" Sounds like a typically male a**wipe thing to joke about...IMO, women wouldn't do that. But, I'm partial.... :)

I think if I found a body, I would be happy..........not happy hahahaha, but happy that my being in that space, at that time brought me to a place where I was able to help bring closure to a family...who might have wound up otherwise waiting for a car to pull in the driveway, or for a phone call...for a long time. I would be sad the person was dead, but not sad that I found them...does that make sense?:shrug:

Searching for dead people is crazy. Just plain nuts, like that woman who was going through the Anthony's garbage...:rolleyes:

I did not know that ment like over the moon happy. But I have to say it was obvious to me that he was not one bit upset that he found the body and he was looking for it in hopes of getting the reward. In many cases you are right a reward is placed so people will come forward with what they know, tips. But in this case by the time he found the body it was a body they were looking for. Remember the smell of death was in the car. I think LE was looking for a body from the beginning. THe stupid police did not find it because they were afraid to go into the area and look for it, Kronk did so he deserves the reward. You certainly have the right to your oponion and I would be sad to if I just happened upon a body, but Kronk was looking for it in hopes of getting a reward, he said as much.

[eatcupcakes]

I don't think the towel in the picture with Caylee is in the second picture. There is no white on Caylee's towel, that I could see anyway. It looks like there is quite a bit of white on the pinkish item in the second one.

JMO.

I think you are correct, the item in the second photo does not seem as thick and has white in it, the towel Caylee is on has no white. The item in the second photo looks to small to be this large towel.

[eatcupcakes]

I thnk KC will be found guilty of manslaughter and get around 25 years it this is all they have. What will convict is her waiting so long and never reporting Caylee missing and all her partying and lying. If this is all LE has. However I have to beleive they are holding something back or they wouldn't have put the DP back on. Unless they just did it to scare her into making a deal. And we know thats not gonna work. What convicted Scott Peterson and got him the DP was Amber Fry but we don't have Amber for this trial. I can only hope and pray they have more then they released.

[Native Alien]

I still believe that there is more that we aren't seeing as far as evidence goes. I don't believe for a minute that the prosecuting attorneys would have put the DP back on the table just to try to scare Casey into a plea deal.

There is so much that we still haven't seen and I think that is where the solid evidence is. Much of what I have seen in this document dump really doesn't tell us anything important. Most of it was about the Deputy that didn't do his job. To me that is sort of a byline in this case.

[DrewBerry]

Good, good, good post. ITA! You hit on everything I believe, even before I finished my first cuppa cawffee! This old haterade hag had to read it three times, but I believe you're right on. I especially believe she will use the fact that she was terrified of Cindy and that is why she didn't turn to her for help. That might be true too. After all, she did say, "Mom will never forgive this." Not to say I believe Caylee died accidentally... I just think they will use that issue in court as a buffer for why she didn't report Caylee missing. I also think Cindy will be flat as a pizza pie when the bus rolls off her.

Good Libra scales of justice will see justice here, I think.


Good posts to both of you! :)I also think Bozo and the Liar wouldn't hesitate to throw George and Lee under the same bus with Cindy. JMO.
DrewB

[katfish]

Good morning! :seeya:
I have yet to read all of the evidence released yesterday. I have jumped around the web to see what people are saying about it. One common thread is everywhere I go is people wondering how the state decided to put the DP back on the table when we have seen little REALLY incriminating evidence.

Keeping in mind that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence..... Simply because you do not have evidence that something exists does not mean that you have evidence that it doesn't exist.

As someone up thread said it may just be a strategic move by the state to release this info that some say is exculpatory evidence. Keep in mind too that the judge is ultimately the gatekeeper of what info is held back under the Sunshine Law.There might be things that he has blocked to ensure a fair trial for Casey.....something really predjudicial.

I just can't believe she left no evidence, although the passage of time was her friend. There has been nothing indicating anyone else is resposible either.

[katfish]

I had that thought about Casey lying to Lee. Here is where the A's got caught in the dep. (One of the things anyway) When they say, I believe everything my daughter says, they are saying she doesn't lie. I wasn't surprised that Cindy said, the fight never happened. I was surprised the lawyer didn't jump on that one and remind her that Casey is the one who reported the fight to Lee.

So she does lie Cindy? She lied about the fight? And you believe everything she says? Oh, maybe Lee lied? Or maybe you're lying?

Gettouttaheah! :punch:

Very good points! I bet Morgan wishes he would have thought of that. :)

[One2Snoop]

New Documents May Give Casey's Defense Ammunition

Posted: 5:31 pm EDT May 1, 2009Updated: 6:24 pm EDT May 1, 2009
ORANGE COUNTY, Fla. -- Newly released documents in the case against Casey could raise reasonable doubt in because they fail to link Casey Anthony directly to the crime scene, which may give her defense some ammunition in court.

It is a bit of a break for the defense, less incriminating evidence to fight against and to use to try to create reasonable doubt. But the defense team's obstacle will boil down to that one word, "reasonable."

New FBI reports released Friday show that investigators cannot definitively match debris on Casey Anthony's shoes and in her car trunk with soil and debris found in the woods where Caylee's remains were found.

The FBI can't rule it out either. FBI chemists say tests on the strands of Caylee's hair that were found at the scene for evidence of prescription drugs taken from the Anthonys' house, were negative.

"It helps the defense because the defense then does not have to counter that piece of evidence," said WFTV Legal Analyst Bill Sheaffer.

Sheaffer says the defense could try to create doubt in jurors' minds by focusing on those weak links, because of unanswered questions. Such as how Caylee was murdered, but says doubt and reasonable doubt are two different things.

The legal standard is this: "A reasonable doubt is not a mere possible doubt, a speculative, imaginary or forced doubt."

"In this particular case there's so much circumstantial evidence and you're going to see an ebb and flow," he said.

Investigators did find a link between the duct tape stretched across Caylee's skull and the tape on the Anthonys' gas can. Also, a link between the Anthonys' house and a heart sticker on that duct tape was found. The laundry bag and trash bags that Caylee's remains were stashed in were also linked.

The FBI did not test the hair found with Caylee's remains for chloroform, because its chemists said it wouldn't prove anything.

Chloroform is a by-product of decomposition. Even so, Eyewitness News has learned that prosecutors had someone else test Caylee's hair for chloroform and say the results will be in soon.

Casey Anthony and her legal team have a lot on their plate, this month. On Tuesday, Jose Baez is scheduled to question a jail guard who was with Casey on the day she learned her daughter's remains were found. Surveillance cameras recorded that moment.

However, on May 28, Casey and her attorney will go to court to try to make sure the public never sees the video tape.

http://www.wftv.com/news/19346147/detail.html

[Amy]

And as we look at the paltry evidence from the trunk, the lack of dirt samples to match, the complete absence of dna or identifiable blood...just a few hairs (I mean have you ever looked at your trunk, especially if you have dogs around?!), remember this comment from October...

*snip*
"Hornsby said he most surprised about how clean the trunk was, and believes a second suspect will surface.

"If the hypothesis that Caylee was in the trunk is true, whoever helped Miss Anthony was very intelligent, and I would have to think they had some law enforcement background," Hornsby said."
*snip*

http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Local/2008/10/24/forensic_evidence_released_in_caylee_case.html

I would think the trunk would have been "clean" by the time LE got there, as CIndy says she and George started cleaning the car, and then she told George to go ahead and go to work.

[Amy]

So far none of the neighbors interviews I have read put a fight exactly on the 15th. Mrs Couty is very vague and is not sure when. I have not read Mr Couty's is he specfic or does he just say he heard fights. Maybe there was no fight and Casey made it up.

The "interview" that I am remembering was in a newspaper article. The reporter talking to people who happened to be around, or maybe even approaching the neighbors and anyone else they think can shed some light on the situation. I'm pretty sure I had read about this neighbor (in the news article) even before the LE interviews, and certainly well before we got the interviews in a dump.

[Amy]

Well I feel like I am overposting lol but two things because I keep turning this over in my mind. Number one I just got off the phone from my cousin and she says that while Cindy certainly could of lied she also brought up the possibility that maybe this was a towel Casey purchased or had that Cindy did not know about. It is a slim probability but it is possible. It is so strange because even if Cindy was telling the truth about something like she did not recognize the towel, it is almost impossible not to suspect otherwise, which is precisely the probllem they will face at trial, even if she does tell the truth about something who would believe her? Number two unless someone can point me to the the neighbors interview who specifies the fight was the 15th and they heard it, I now really, really think it would not suprise me if Casey made the whole big fight and strangling story up. It gives her a perfect excuse to stay away for a long time, to friends and family alike. Maybe she had just decided to do it, did it and now needed a good reason to stay away so she made it up. What do you all think? I also reread Grandma and Grandma's sisters emails and both say Maybe there was a fight, maybe that was why Casey has not come around or gotten in touch with her Mom or even let Cindy see Caylee. But Grandma suspects there is something else wrong though she is never specfic and maybe Grandma in her own way was onto something.Grandma says she can't quite figure it out. If there was no fight maybe she only stayed away because the baby was dead. And think of it, the longer Casey can stay away from CIndy, the longer she can prolong any kind of a search for a dead body. ANd the longer you can leave a body out there, the better , since she killed her and had something to hide. It may be one reason why she dared not tell her friends the nanny story ahead of time, because what if one of them thought to call her parents or the police and the search got jump started early. Casey would have stayed away indefinitely if she could , all the better for her crime.

I don't think you or anyone else is overposting. Everything posted brings something else to think about, whether it is a question about something, or an answer about something.

Maybe all the story telling is going to be what will hang the jury or (shudder) worse. Already, especially w/Cindy (and really, a lot of what we attribute to Casey is really what Cindy tells us that Casey told her) she tells hundreds of different versions of everything, so of course, no one is going to be able to tell WHAT, if ANYTHING is the truth. Reasonable doubt, cuz the jury won't know if any truth has been told?

Except, of course, a reasonable juror could absolutely discount pretty much whatever the A's have said, and look @ the evidence (real and circumstantial) hopefully that would lead to a conviction. There just really has to be other evidence that has not been released (and maybe never released) that the prosecution has that caused them to change back to DP. Unless, of course, they really were wanting to get her plea.

[Amy]

I had that thought about Casey lying to Lee. Here is where the A's got caught in the dep. (One of the things anyway) When they say, I believe everything my daughter says, they are saying she doesn't lie. I wasn't surprised that Cindy said, the fight never happened. I was surprised the lawyer didn't jump on that one and remind her that Casey is the one who reported the fight to Lee.

So she does lie Cindy? She lied about the fight? And you believe everything she says? Oh, maybe Lee lied? Or maybe you're lying?

Gettouttaheah! :punch:

When Cindy was reviewing the documents before the depo, perhaps she would have been well off to have reviewed ALL the doc dumps to date. Perhaps then, she would come across her statement early on that, even when Casey lies, she tells the truth. Even when she lies seems to indicate that Cindy KNOWS Casey LIES. So did statements like she (Cindy) get usually can get Casey to eventually tell the truth. And I'm pretty sure there was a statement (might even have been in LE/FBI interview) where she out and out says that Casey lies. Well, maybe she wouldn't have found some of her statements about Casey lying in the docs (but I DO think she did say that in one of her official interviews) and maybe she should have been spending the "quiet time" between finding Caylee and when they actually went to the depo on also watching all those interviews on NG, GMA, etc. and reading news articles.

You know, that might not have been a bad idea...watch/read all that so she could remember what she should say in the depo. Or, perhaps (which really DID seem to happen) not choose none of what she said before, but make up something new, something that might sound better, something that might fit or explain away some of the things LE now knows. Besides, I bet the A's would have found that to be cozy, pleasurable evening, to watch themselves in all the taped/televised interviews. Oh, didn't my hair look so great there!!! I think I look pretty good in green, don't you? Doesn't that sweater show off my ta-ta's pretty darn good? Oh, be quiet!!! Who cares about your shiny white hair or your jet black brows!!! No one is looking @ YOU, so it doesn't matter that you have kept in pretty darn good shape--but I don't know that I would call you BUFF, just pretty darn good shape. Now, DON'T talk about MY eyebrows!!! SHUT UP!!!! no, YOU shut up!!!! :punch::chicken:

[eatcupcakes]

Fusian is Casey's Amber Fry imo.

Its not like Scott confessed to her or anything, she was a demonstration of his post-Laci lifestyle, just as Casey's partying is for the upcoming Florida jury.

This is really going to hinge on what kind of jury she gets and how good the props are. They are going to have to have more then what we see now to get the death penalty. Her partying is a good indication that she did not care about her daughter but it does not prove guilt or innocence. We know she killed Caylee but we are not on the jury nor do we have to follow the instructions of the Judge. If we had her on tape saying Caylee was dead before she went missing, like Amber had on Scott, it would be a different story. Fusion is not enough MOO. I sure as heck hope they have more and are holding back.

[eatcupcakes]

Before Caylee went missing, Casey was looking up "missing children". Lo and behold...missing child. "household weapons", then Caylee is dead. How many guys have claimed to be poor suffering widowers? Probably more than mothers who look up missing children, chloroform and household weapons. Fushian is part of the picture, but a big one, because it will have a very visceral impact, and the viscera is where the DP comes in for juries, imo.

If Laci Peterson had been found 900 feet away from their house, I think the jury would have been back even faster...

Java I hope you are right.

[katfish]

Concerning the issue of the argument between Cindy and Casey on June 15, I found this:


WESH-Channel 2 studied the audio interview that Jesse Grund, Casey's former fiance, gave investigators. Grund said that Lee Anthony told him that Casey and Cindy Anthony had "a very violent fight" before Caylee disappeared, WESH's Amanda Ober reported.

"It got into a very heated argument, which turned physical, and Cindy started choking Casey," Grund said.

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2009/04/casey-anthony-case-wftv-reports-that-judge-filed-compalint-with-bar-.html

There are tons of reports out there about a neighbor hearing the argument between Cindy and Casey I couldn't find one place besides the above link that actually identified anyone who "knew" about the argument. Strange, it has to be out there somewhere. Cindy's brother even referenced the argument in relation to Cindy and her Mom "discussing" pressing charges for the theft from the assisted living account earlier that day.
Just thought I would share what I found.:shrug:

[Gatordog]

As Ng asked the lawyers on tonight, did you ever have a murder trial where the soil samples was the main evidence or made that much difference? (paraphased)

A couple of things came to mind when NG mentioned soil samples. The first was - If the soil samples on shoes matched the soil at the burial site, it wouldn't mean that much to me due to the proximity of the site to the Anthony house. I would think that the soil would be the same and the defense would say as much.

Second - if the samples did not match any shoes, I would wonder if he fact that she walked on it during dry season and then it flooded for almost four months could mean that the soil chemistry might have changed due to flooding.

Third, she was probably wearing flipflops and either disposed of them or was able to wash them.

[Gatordog]

I don't think the towel in the picture with Caylee is in the second picture. There is no white on Caylee's towel, that I could see anyway. It looks like there is quite a bit of white on the pinkish item in the second one.

JMO.

It could have faded in the sun. I have left towels outside and due to the sun and rain, they lost their fullness and became much thinner in addition to losing color.

[Gatordog]

I thnk KC will be found guilty of manslaughter and get around 25 years it this is all they have. What will convict is her waiting so long and never reporting Caylee missing and all her partying and lying. If this is all LE has. However I have to beleive they are holding something back or they wouldn't have put the DP back on. Unless they just did it to scare her into making a deal. And we know thats not gonna work. What convicted Scott Peterson and got him the DP was Amber Fry but we don't have Amber for this trial. I can only hope and pray they have more then they released.

I think they have a great deal of evidence when you put it all together. You need to look at the big picture. Put the lying and changing stories in with decomposed hair in the trunk, There's the laundry bag, garbage bags and winnie the pooh blanket which match the same products in the house. Amy sent a text to the liar regarding her missing duct tape. Duct tape found on gas cans and on skeleton. Tony said he didn't want daughters. A neighbor saw the liar's car on suburban Drive. The Liar states to Amy that she got rid of the dead animals causing the stink in her car. Computer searches on missing children and lots more and the jurors are not going to like hearing Caylee was referred to as "the little Snot Head". Not exactly what a loving mother would call her baby girl.

Gator

[Gatordog]

Fusian is Casey's Amber Fry imo.

Its not like Scott confessed to her or anything, she was a demonstration of his post-Laci lifestyle, just as Casey's partying is for the upcoming Florida jury.

Yes Java, you make an excellent point!

Gator

[Gatordog]

This is really going to hinge on what kind of jury she gets and how good the props are. They are going to have to have more then what we see now to get the death penalty. Her partying is a good indication that she did not care about her daughter but it does not prove guilt or innocence. We know she killed Caylee but we are not on the jury nor do we have to follow the instructions of the Judge. If we had her on tape saying Caylee was dead before she went missing, like Amber had on Scott, it would be a different story. Fusion is not enough MOO. I sure as heck hope they have more and are holding back.

You know, I didn't put one ounce of thought into what Amber Frye said. I didn't care what she had to say. It was the boat. It was the clothing from the day before. People evaluate thing differently. I think there is more than enough to find her guilty.

[Gatordog]

Concerning the issue of the argument between Cindy and Casey on June 15, I found this:


WESH-Channel 2 studied the audio interview that Jesse Grund, Casey's former fiance, gave investigators. Grund said that Lee Anthony told him that Casey and Cindy Anthony had "a very violent fight" before Caylee disappeared, WESH's Amanda Ober reported.

"It got into a very heated argument, which turned physical, and Cindy started choking Casey," Grund said.

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2009/04/casey-anthony-case-wftv-reports-that-judge-filed-compalint-with-bar-.html

There are tons of reports out there about a neighbor hearing the argument between Cindy and Casey I couldn't find one place besides the above link that actually identified anyone who "knew" about the argument. Strange, it has to be out there somewhere. Cindy's brother even referenced the argument in relation to Cindy and her Mom "discussing" pressing charges for the theft from the assisted living account earlier that day.
Just thought I would share what I found.:shrug:

If I recall correctly, the first mention of the fight was in a two page story in the Enquirer.

[katfish]

If I recall correctly, the first mention of the fight was in a two page story in the Enquirer.

Thanks Gator- I have never seen an Enquirer reference come up on anything that I have googled. No wonder I couldn't find it. I think it's probably a good thing that Lee told Jesse about it then. That may carry more weight with a jury than a neighbor who sold an interview to Enquirer.I doubt anyone would talk to Enquirer for free. LOL

[lighthousedazy]

A couple of things came to mind when NG mentioned soil samples. The first was - If the soil samples on shoes matched the soil at the burial site, it wouldn't mean that much to me due to the proximity of the site to the Anthony house. I would think that the soil would be the same and the defense would say as much.

Second - if the samples did not match any shoes, I would wonder if he fact that she walked on it during dry season and then it flooded for almost four months could mean that the soil chemistry might have changed due to flooding.

Third, she was probably wearing flipflops and either disposed of them or was able to wash them.
I just think they have got to present better evidence than the soil samples and I think they can. But that would have been good if they did match. I agree exactly with your last 2 sentences. The flooding would have changed the soil chemistry and I believe casey would have ditched the shoes and/or if she was wearing flip flops they would be easy to clean and also to throw away. jmo ;)

[One2Snoop]

I agree with Gator re the fact that the house was so close, how different can the soil be? And the chemistry issue. It stands to reason that the LE has harder evidence than they're showing right now. The death penalty is not a tool to get someone to plea. IMO When they put it back on the table, I knew it was heavy duty. They know she did it. IMO.
They wouldn't screw around with the DP.. no way!
Goodnight girl friends
:seeya:

ITA Danagher! They have the smoking gun, IMO.

[Native Alien]

I agree with Gator re the fact that the house was so close, how different can the soil be? And the chemistry issue. It stands to reason that the LE has harder evidence than they're showing right now. The death penalty is not a tool to get someone to plea. IMO When they put it back on the table, I knew it was heavy duty. They know she did it. IMO.
They wouldn't screw around with the DP.. no way!
Goodnight girl friends
:seeya:

I am in total agreement with you Danagher. I think that we have not seen the best evidence that they have.

I heard this evening on Geraldo I think it was that they did send the hair to a different lab to be tested for chloroform to see if there was regular doping with it going on. So it could be that they have the results from that testing.

Plus I forget who said but early on in this case one of the defense attorneys on one of the shows said that the prosecuting attorney will have a strong suspicion about the way that some lab test is going to turn out and will tell the lab that there isn't a rush on them getting the results back to the PA.

Does anyone know anything at all about the shell casing that was found close to the remains? That is something that has been a topic of conversation lately online.

[One2Snoop]

I am in total agreement with you Danagher. I think that we have not seen the best evidence that they have.

I heard this evening on Geraldo I think it was that they did send the hair to a different lab to be tested for chloroform to see if there was regular doping with it going on. So it could be that they have the results from that testing.

Plus I forget who said but early on in this case one of the defense attorneys on one of the shows said that the prosecuting attorney will have a strong suspicion about the way that some lab test is going to turn out and will tell the lab that there isn't a rush on them getting the results back to the PA.

Does anyone know anything at all about the shell casing that was found close to the remains? That is something that has been a topic of conversation lately online.

I can understand how its a topic and no doubt tons of speculation going on but I have to admit this is probably the only "new" thing thats come up in this case. My question is, "Can they link it to Caylee's death or not?"
I'd say not, since there's not been anything come out on Caylee's autopsy that she was shot.

JMO

[Native Alien]

Does anyone know if it has been said that George kept a gun in the house. I know that for most retired LE they keep a gun in the house. I am wondering if that could have been where it come from.

[One2Snoop]

Does anyone know if it has been said that George kept a gun in the house. I know that for most retired LE they keep a gun in the house. I am wondering if that could have been where it come from.

IIRC George applied for and had a gun after Casey's first or second arrest. LE learned of the gun and confiscated it shortly thereafter. It's in one one of the posted articles, I'll see if I can find it for you tomorrow - it's late and I need to say good night. :seeya:

[Native Alien]

Thank you snoop. I really appreciate it and I thought that I had remembered someone saying something about a gun that was in the house.

[DrewBerry]

I wonder what exactly it was, that got Casey arrested for first degree murder? Is Jose eating beans? I believe she killed Caylee and I believe it for a slew of reasons. The one that's rearing its head lately is, no one is looking for the killer because they know where she is. (Including Cindy and George.) They had a lot of energy to go out day after day to run their mouths off in the news before the remains were found, now,,,, nothin! Not withstanding the huge amount of evidence, it's the little things that get to me. Another thing that makes me raise an eyebrow is, they haven't visited liar. Why do they care what gets video'd if she's innocent and they are innocent of helping her.
The third thing that bugs me is the way they sent Caylee off. No funeral, no casket, no burial site, gravestone, no respect for the angel.... :cuss:

I never understood their claim that certain people were not allowed to go to the memorial. Why do they hate love? Is that what evil does? Yeah, that's what evil does. It hates love. These people are too impaired for words. Cindy MUST control something so controls the lovely people who want to pay respect to a child they themselves found dispensable?

Karma's gonna get um! They should all be tossed into a pit when their time comes- with rest of the snakes.

Off my Sunday morning soap box.

For Caylee:rose:

Hey Nawny! I thought I was the only one awake at this hour (I'm PST).
Excellent post. Cindy MUST control something---OMG! She cannot control Casey since she's in jail. Jose is eating beans and ITA, the way they handled the memorial (or whatever) was creepy and hateful. WTF? :confused:
DrewB

[DrewBerry]

Ugh!!!!!! I'm now saying all the Italian swear words I ever knew!

So if there is any doubt that she hurt Caylee, then why isn't her family and LE falling over themselves to find the killer? I have a strong feeling the defense team might distract the nation with their planned confusion for many months. We're going to be eating this trial for breakfast, lunch and dinner for along time. I remember OJ at the airport, the hospital, my house, bowling alley, the Chinese restaurant wall TV, Florida, and the doctor's office waiting room. This ca ca liar is going to be immortal after all aye?

ITA, Nawny. Remember the Peterson's claiming their son's innocence in public but they were never out there busting their butts to find "the real killer" so Snotty-Scotty would be set free. :shrug:
DrewB

[eatcupcakes]

You're too smart jav. Shutup. :hat:

This is similar to the S. Peterson case in that very way. Her behavior after the fact was joyfully displayed even more indescretely than his and so she's toast.

:beer: on me!

Scott Peterson, told Amber his wife was gone and it was before Christmas and it was gonna be his first Christmas with out her and this was before she went missing. He also kept calling her for months after the wife went missing. He was spinning lie after lie. He never showed any feeling about the wife or baby in those taped phone calls. He only showed that he wanted to continue his relationship with Amber and to hell with the wife and baby. That was really clear when they played those taped conversations. Casey sat in jail and cryed that she missed er daughter and wanted to be home when she got home for her birthday. Not that she really cared but the jury might believe her . The defense did not have anything sympathic to show the jury fo Scott. I think she will be found guilty but not of murder one. Because of the fight with the mother, if it can be proved, the jury might think she did it in the spare of the moment out of anger or to spite Cindy. I know they have the computer search for killing but since they have no cause of death or that it was even her who did the search. It could have been any member of the family who had access to the computer, reasonable doubt. We really don't know much about Lee maybe he did those searches, maybe he wanted to kill someone. I am just playing the devils avacate. I think it will turn out to be second degree murder with 25 years to life. However I hope I am wrong and you are right.

[eatcupcakes]

You know, I didn't put one ounce of thought into what Amber Frye said. I didn't care what she had to say. It was the boat. It was the clothing from the day before. People evaluate thing differently. I think there is more than enough to find her guilty.

I didn't care what Amber said either. It was the tapes of what Scott was saying. If you remember it appeared that the proscution was losing the case until the Fry tapes were played and then it turned the whole case around. Even Garragos lost interest after that, it was obvious. But I am not saying she is going to be found innocent. What you have to remember is that we are people who are very interested in Crime and probable have studied lots of cases. The Jury is not going to know as much about this case as we do ahead of time. So it is going to be the resposibilty of the Pros. to present all the evidence in a way that the Jury will put it together the way we have. You also must remember this is not CA it is FA and that can make a big different in the mentality of the jury. MOO

[Gatordog]

I didn't care what Amber said either. It was the tapes of what Scott was saying. If you remember it appeared that the proscution was losing the case until the Fry tapes were played and then it turned the whole case around. Even Garragos lost interest after that, it was obvious. But I am not saying she is going to be found innocent. What you have to remember is that we are people who are very interested in Crime and probable have studied lots of cases. The Jury is not going to know as much about this case as we do ahead of time. So it is going to be the resposibilty of the Pros. to present all the evidence in a way that the Jury will put it together the way we have. You also must remember this is not CA it is FA and that can make a big different in the mentality of the jury. MOO

Are you saying that people in Florida are not as savvy or intelligent as those in California? Do you think that people in Florida do not understand crime or have not been following this case? If that's the case, then we should tell Baez there is no need to move the trial to another location. Should the State's Attorney have picture books for the jury?

Gator

[Gatordog]

Wait till you read Baez' background. Another deadbeat dad.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/caylee-anthony/orl-casey-anthony-lawyer-jose-baez-caylee-050309,0,3439656.story

Gator

[Gatordog]

I wonder what exactly it was, that got Casey arrested for first degree murder? Is Jose eating beans? I believe she killed Caylee and I believe it for a slew of reasons. The one that's rearing its head lately is, no one is looking for the killer because they know where she is. (Including Cindy and George.) They had a lot of energy to go out day after day to run their mouths off in the news before the remains were found, now,,,, nothin! Not withstanding the huge amount of evidence, it's the little things that get to me. Another thing that makes me raise an eyebrow is, they haven't visited liar. Why do they care what gets video'd if she's innocent and they are innocent of helping her.
The third thing that bugs me is the way they sent Caylee off. No funeral, no casket, no burial site, gravestone, no respect for the angel.... :cuss:

I never understood their claim that certain people were not allowed to go to the memorial. Why do they hate love? Is that what evil does? Yeah, that's what evil does. It hates love. These people are too impaired for words. Cindy MUST control something so controls the lovely people who want to pay respect to a child they themselves found dispensable?

Karma's gonna get um! They should all be tossed into a pit when their time comes- with rest of the snakes.

Off my Sunday morning soap box.

For Caylee:rose:

Good Morning Nawny, your post made me think of something related to Cindy and that bag of toys found on Surburban. The searcher showed them to Cindy and she said they were not Caylee's. Well, the Liar had basically just finished telling Cindy that Zenaida had everything she needed for Caylee. The first thing Cindy should have thought was that perhaps the Nanny had those toys. Why wouldn't Cindy think those were supplied by Zenaida? Why wouldn't Cindy get on the phone with Det. Allen and demand they come look at the toys and the area at Suburban Drive. My reasoning would be is because she knew there was no babysitter and she did not want the police searching Suburban.

[Gatordog]

Wow, even knowing what we know this is unbelievable! And they play the race card when asked about it! And he wrote a bad check-no wonder he's bonded with Casey! I knew there was a reason he went 8 years without becoming a lawyer-that made no sense. But I had no idea it was so lively a reason!

Thank you for posting this, Gator!

Maybe Baez wants Casey to be one of his bikini models? :rolleyes:

[JLette]

I think they have a great deal of evidence when you put it all together. You need to look at the big picture. Put the lying and changing stories in with decomposed hair in the trunk, There's the laundry bag, garbage bags and winnie the pooh blanket which match the same products in the house. Amy sent a text to the liar regarding her missing duct tape. Duct tape found on gas cans and on skeleton. Tony said he didn't want daughters. A neighbor saw the liar's car on suburban Drive. The Liar states to Amy that she got rid of the dead animals causing the stink in her car. Computer searches on missing children and lots more and the jurors are not going to like hearing Caylee was referred to as "the little Snot Head". Not exactly what a loving mother would call her baby girl.

Gator

NOT taking up for Casey BY ANY MEANS but my son is about the same age as caylee, they were about a month apart, and i have to admit that i have called my son the little booger boy and things like that, although never with mean intentions of course, usually when i say things like that i have a smile on my face and even when the boy is in trouble i never feel anything but love in my heart for him. im just saying that her calling caylee the little snothead really doesn't prove or disprove anything because we don't know how she was saying it, what tone she had and how she felt at the time. BUT, again, all the other evidence tells us what happened pretty clearly, i am not trying to stick up for the psycho bi*ch at all.

i have tended to put myself in Casey's shoes alot during the course of this investigation not only because Caylee and my son were so close in age but also because Casey and I are also close in age, i am a little more than a year older than her, AND her family resembles my family greatly, mainly her mother and my mother could be mental sisters and so i find it very easy to put myself in Casey's shoes, although i cannot for the life of me make sense of any of it. i think to myself wow cyndi is just like my mom, but then i think "if i had done this my mom would be the first person to throw me under the bus" because like a grandma SHOULD my mother does love my son more than anything, including me and especially if i was the one to hurt him in any way, which is how it should be in my opinion.

[Twinners]

Concerning the issue of the argument between Cindy and Casey on June 15, I found this:


WESH-Channel 2 studied the audio interview that Jesse Grund, Casey's former fiance, gave investigators. Grund said that Lee Anthony told him that Casey and Cindy Anthony had "a very violent fight" before Caylee disappeared, WESH's Amanda Ober reported.

"It got into a very heated argument, which turned physical, and Cindy started choking Casey," Grund said.

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2009/04/casey-anthony-case-wftv-reports-that-judge-filed-compalint-with-bar-.html

There are tons of reports out there about a neighbor hearing the argument between Cindy and Casey I couldn't find one place besides the above link that actually identified anyone who "knew" about the argument. Strange, it has to be out there somewhere. Cindy's brother even referenced the argument in relation to Cindy and her Mom "discussing" pressing charges for the theft from the assisted living account earlier that day.
Just thought I would share what I found.:shrug:

Thanks for sharing! I just went back and read through parts of Cindy's mother's interview and according to her, she decided not to press charges against Casey at some point around the time she discovered the money was missing. She said she told the bank they could if they wanted, but that she wasn't going to do it for Cindy and Caylee's sake. I think she said that was between April and May.

Page 15: http://www.wftv.com/blank/18974289/detail.html

I'm not sure what to make of Cindy's brother, but just from what Cindy's mom had to say, I don't think the argument Cindy & Casey were supposed to have had had anything to do with Cindy and her mom discussing her pressing charges against Casey that day. In fact, I'm no longer sure I believe they had an argument at all the day before Casey took Caylee and left. I think, just based on all the stuff neighbors and so forth have said, the big fight was probably at some point before then. IOW, I don't think the supposed fight was the catalyst for Casey leaving. I think she'd been planning to do what she did for some time. It wasn't a spur of the moment thing, IMO.

[Twinners]

I wonder what exactly it was, that got Casey arrested for first degree murder? Is Jose eating beans? I believe she killed Caylee and I believe it for a slew of reasons. The one that's rearing its head lately is, no one is looking for the killer because they know where she is. (Including Cindy and George.) They had a lot of energy to go out day after day to run their mouths off in the news before the remains were found, now,,,, nothin! Not withstanding the huge amount of evidence, it's the little things that get to me. Another thing that makes me raise an eyebrow is, they haven't visited liar. Why do they care what gets video'd if she's innocent and they are innocent of helping her.
The third thing that bugs me is the way they sent Caylee off. No funeral, no casket, no burial site, gravestone, no respect for the angel.... :cuss:

I never understood their claim that certain people were not allowed to go to the memorial. Why do they hate love? Is that what evil does? Yeah, that's what evil does. It hates love. These people are too impaired for words. Cindy MUST control something so controls the lovely people who want to pay respect to a child they themselves found dispensable?

Karma's gonna get um! They should all be tossed into a pit when their time comes- with rest of the snakes.

Off my Sunday morning soap box.

For Caylee:rose:

I'm with you 100% on them not looking for the "real" killer! I find myself being more and more disgusted with that aspect of it every single day. I mean, if Cindy and George want to believe Casey is innocent, then fine - let them believe. However, by that same token, don't they want to see the person who DID kill Caylee pay for what they did? I certainly would, yet I never hear them say one word about trying to find them. That makes me more frustrated and angrier at them than anything else they have done since Caylee first went missing has. I want justice for Caylee and I never even knew her. How can they not? It just boggles my mind.

As far as them not visiting Casey goes, I don't think it's a matter of George and Cindy not wanting to go see her because of Caylee. I think it is Casey who is stopping the visits from happening out of fear she may somehow incriminate herself on video more than she already has. That's why, IMO, George and Cindy keep asking for a "private" visitation. They, IMO, know an unrecorded visit is the only kind Casey will agree to now. JMO, but I think we'd be hearing reports of George and/or Cindy going to see her all the time IF their visits weren't recorded.

[lorettalockhorn]

I just don't see that big a difference between the two cases...
-evidence of thinking about disappearance/death of victim in advance? check
-opportunity? check
-failure to search for "missing" victim? check
-absurd alibi? check
-evidence of moving on to a beautiful life, not possible with victim? check
-evidence of being at body "find" spot? check
-no cause of death? check
-no evidence at crime scene of killer's action? check
-all circumstantial (so far)? check

I actually think the Casey Anthony case is a bit stronger than Scott Peterson. And don't forget...Garagos vs. Baez...who would you pick, lol? (And whenever possible, I like to give props to Amber Frye...awesome vengeance! I hope her life is a Bella Vita.)

Although there is no accounting for juries...

Excellent summary! I guess if anything serves as Casey's Amber Frey, it will be myspace and photobucket. That seems to be where she chronicled her inner feelings.

As for this case warranting the death penalty, even if the prosecution doesn't have a smoking gun, they do still have the aggravating circumstances; primarily Caylee's age, and the heinous, atrocious and cruel aspect of a mother causing the death of the one she should most fearlessly protect.

Die Casey. Die.

[Gatordog]

NOT taking up for Casey BY ANY MEANS but my son is about the same age as caylee, they were about a month apart, and i have to admit that i have called my son the little booger boy and things like that, although never with mean intentions of course, usually when i say things like that i have a smile on my face and even when the boy is in trouble i never feel anything but love in my heart for him. im just saying that her calling caylee the little snothead really doesn't prove or disprove anything because we don't know how she was saying it, what tone she had and how she felt at the time. BUT, again, all the other evidence tells us what happened pretty clearly, i am not trying to stick up for the psycho bi*ch at all.

i have tended to put myself in Casey's shoes alot during the course of this investigation not only because Caylee and my son were so close in age but also because Casey and I are also close in age, i am a little more than a year older than her, AND her family resembles my family greatly, mainly her mother and my mother could be mental sisters and so i find it very easy to put myself in Casey's shoes, although i cannot for the life of me make sense of any of it. i think to myself wow cyndi is just like my mom, but then i think "if i had done this my mom would be the first person to throw me under the bus" because like a grandma SHOULD my mother does love my son more than anything, including me and especially if i was the one to hurt him in any way, which is how it should be in my opinion.

I guess maybe it is an age thing, as I am much older than you. I wouldn't call a child anything that would cause embarrassment especially since the child could call someone else that name. How can a child be told that it is wrong to call names when that's what he's been taught. I had a battle with my brother during a family dinner because he kept referring to a roast that my mother slaved to make and he kept referring to it as "pig snout" to his five year old daughter and she started calling it by that name. I would not appreciate anyone calling any of my nieces "snot heads". But, that's just me.

[lorettalockhorn]

Are you saying that people in Florida are not as savvy or intelligent as those in California? Do you think that people in Florida do not understand crime or have not been following this case? If that's the case, then we should tell Baez there is no need to move the trial to another location. Should the State's Attorney have picture books for the jury?

Gator

Hayell. Even we'uns Arkiesaucers don't use no pitcher books.

Wait till you read Baez' background. Another deadbeat dad.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/caylee-anthony/orl-casey-anthony-lawyer-jose-baez-caylee-050309,0,3439656.story

Gator

FLOVE this article! Flove how Baez's spokesflamer immediately plays the persecution/prejudice card!

>>lucky to find itself at the center of a national story."

What irony, considering that Casey practically got Jose's name off the bathroom wall.

>>have monetary misunderstandings

Hey, sounds like a Cindyism. Is Mackenzie describing attorney or client?

>>He dropped out of Homestead High School

Well, gee. That sounds like Casey too.

>>left out parts of his history, including that he wrote a bad check

>>unnecessary expenses when he owed money to others

>>misrepresentations and lack of candor in his answers

I'm telling you, those two are soulmates!

[lorettalockhorn]

Maybe Baez wants Casey to be one of his bikini models? :rolleyes:

If she doesn't lay off the pork rinds, she's going to be two of those models. And she better practice up on her DIY Brazillian wax technique. :hat:

[JLette]

I guess maybe it is an age thing, as I am much older than you. I wouldn't call a child anything that would cause embarrassment especially since the child could call someone else that name. How can a child be told that it is wrong to call names when that's what he's been taught. I had a battle with my brother during a family dinner because he kept referring to a roast that my mother slaved to make and he kept referring to it as "pig snout" to his five year old daughter and she started calling it by that name. I would not appreciate anyone calling any of my nieces "snot heads". But, that's just me.

most of the times i have used terms like that referring to my son was like....im on the phone with my mom and i say " oh wait, booger boy wants to talk" or when he was a baby and still doing the spit up thing i would say stuff like "want me to bring the puke baby over for a while?" but it probably has a lot to do with the generation and where your from and whatnot. like, growing up my parents would pick on me like that, my sister and i would pick on each other like that, but it was always all fun and games you know?

i hate casey as much as the rest of the sane world does, but i do have to say that her calling caylee a snot head might mean nothing at all, although with the way things turned out it probably had a lot more meaning than i would like to admit, but speaking as a 23 year old mother of a toddler, i just can't take that statement too seriously.

[lorettalockhorn]

And again, surveillance video on that! :eek:

Just the thought of that makes me want to poke my eyes out! :eek:

[DrewBerry]

If she doesn't lay off the pork rinds, she's going to be two of those models. And she better practice up on her DIY Brazillian wax technique. :hat:


Ha, Ha! Good one, Loretta! Those pork rinds giving her extra junk in her trunk!:D
DrewB

[lorettalockhorn]

Ha, Ha! Good one, Loretta! Those pork rinds giving her extra junk in her trunk!:D
DrewB

http://i40.tinypic.com/o544qu.jpg

[JLette]

I am with you on this...the reason I find it offensive is because I don't think she meant it the way we girls would mean it. Because I think she called her daughter a snot-head and then killed her, so its in the context of her use as opposed to us normal folks, imo. I will admit to a "stinker" or two :) My dad called me that...I wouldn't use "snot-head" myself, but could attribute it to a family habit, if Caylee were still among us...

that is EXACTLY what i was attempting to say lol, i got pregnancy brain and sometimes the things i try to say come out sounding wrong because i am overthinking the idea but THATS what i meant, thank you java.

snot head is a little harsh of a term to use in my opinion also, it sounds like something one mean kid would call another kid while arguing, but its the same general idea. now if Caylee were still alive it could be construed as completely innocent, but seeing as things are the way they are now it makes it sound more sinister.

[Amy]

Wait till you read Baez' background. Another deadbeat dad.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/caylee-anthony/orl-casey-anthony-lawyer-jose-baez-caylee-050309,0,3439656.story

Gator

WHaaa Whaaa Whaaaa!! He's being persecuted because he is hispanic!! GMAB!!! The only 2 people who ever mentioned his ethnic background is he and his spokes person. Except this story here, which says where he was born, etc. I guess Garagos should have cried about being persecuted because he is Greek.

Why, yes, I do see where Jose Baez did not practice law for 8 years because it was a personal choice. His personal choices (lack of child support, defaulting on student loans, leasing expesive cars whilst owing big money, etc etc etc) are what prevented him from being allowed by the Bar to practice. And, of course he could make more money in his ventures, cause he wasn't MAKING any money as a lawyer.

OTOH, we have the fellow heading the department that oversees the IRS who didn't bother paying all his taxes--until it became important in his career. I didn't know people could default on student loans--they aren't even discharged in a bankruptcy. But, it does look like it can be done.

Anyway, cry me a river, Marti and Jose. Perhaps, if Jose didn't want his life picked apart by investigative reporters, and didn't want all his baggage put out for public knowledge-he might have tho't a little harder about becoming a "high profile" lawyer, for Pete's sake!!

He says he and ex-wife settled about the child support. His daughter must not hold grudges, as it seems she was working in his office @ the time Casey was spending her days there. And probably still does.

Thanks for the link, Gator!!! Can't wait for the next installment on the life and times of poor, misunderstood, presecuted because of his ethnicity Jose Baez!!!

[Amy]

Good Morning Nawny, your post made me think of something related to Cindy and that bag of toys found on Surburban. The searcher showed them to Cindy and she said they were not Caylee's. Well, the Liar had basically just finished telling Cindy that Zenaida had everything she needed for Caylee. The first thing Cindy should have thought was that perhaps the Nanny had those toys. Why wouldn't Cindy think those were supplied by Zenaida? Why wouldn't Cindy get on the phone with Det. Allen and demand they come look at the toys and the area at Suburban Drive. My reasoning would be is because she knew there was no babysitter and she did not want the police searching Suburban.

So, if I understand correctly, Williams first called LE and had the misfortune for Cain to be the responding officer? The officer who pooh-poohed his "find?" I was gonna holler about his taking that to Cindy instead of LE, but then I tho't, ohhhh---he the RIGHT THING, then was rebuffed, so did what any rational citizen would do, approach the family. Poor guy. He seems to be a normal, rational person, unfortunately he was dealing with not just ONE, but TWO unnormal, irrational people--Cain and Cindy. :flamemad:

[Amy]

I am with you on this...the reason I find it offensive is because I don't think she meant it the way we girls would mean it. Because I think she called her daughter a snot-head and then killed her, so its in the context of her use as opposed to us normal folks, imo. I will admit to a "stinker" or two :) My dad called me that...I wouldn't use "snot-head" myself, but could attribute it to a family habit, if Caylee were still among us...

I don't really recall in my family there being "nicknames" for kids. But once I was out in the real world, I heard "curtain climbers" "rug crawlers." I hear (and probably have said) "You're being a brat" when a kid is particularly irritating. And I have certainly heard kids being called "snot-nosed brats" but I do think most of those kids made it to adulthood w/out their parents killing them. I call kids "Buckeroo/Buckerette" "rascal." Or, in my line of work, a particularly large baby is a "jumbo jet/ jumbo Jetta." I do remember once a parent complaining to my supervisor about calling her little boy a buckaroo!!!!

[eatcupcakes]

Are you saying that people in Florida are not as savvy or intelligent as those in California? Do you think that people in Florida do not understand crime or have not been following this case? If that's the case, then we should tell Baez there is no need to move the trial to another location. Should the State's Attorney have picture books for the jury?

Gator

Don't be so thin skinned. Ofcourse I was not inferring that people in Florida are not as smart as people in CA. It is a know fact that each geographic area have different ways of looking at things. for example Fla may be more conservative then CA and so they might be less apt to convict on murder one on a strickly circumstancial case. And just so you know, I hope I am wrong and you are right.

[DrewBerry]

http://i40.tinypic.com/o544qu.jpg


OMG!! Loretta, this is sooooo funny! I can't stop laughing!:D
DrewB

[browneyes106]

Wait till you read Baez' background. Another deadbeat dad.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/caylee-anthony/orl-casey-anthony-lawyer-jose-baez-caylee-050309,0,3439656.story

Gator

I just finished reading the article. Baez has a bad past. Filed for bankruptcy at 24. The others debts. I have a strong feeling that after Casey's trial Baez will probably quit practicing law.

[browneyes106]

I am with you on this...the reason I find it offensive is because I don't think she meant it the way we girls would mean it. Because I think she called her daughter a snot-head and then killed her, so its in the context of her use as opposed to us normal folks, imo. I will admit to a "stinker" or two :) My dad called me that...I wouldn't use "snot-head" myself, but could attribute it to a family habit, if Caylee were still among us...


that is EXACTLY what i was attempting to say lol, i got pregnancy brain and sometimes the things i try to say come out sounding wrong because i am overthinking the idea but THATS what i meant, thank you java.

snot head is a little harsh of a term to use in my opinion also, it sounds like something one mean kid would call another kid while arguing, but its the same general idea. now if Caylee were still alive it could be construed as completely innocent, but seeing as things are the way they are now it makes it sound more sinister.

I don't really recall in my family there being "nicknames" for kids. But once I was out in the real world, I heard "curtain climbers" "rug crawlers." I hear (and probably have said) "You're being a brat" when a kid is particularly irritating. And I have certainly heard kids being called "snot-nosed brats" but I do think most of those kids made it to adulthood w/out their parents killing them. I call kids "Buckeroo/Buckerette" "rascal." Or, in my line of work, a particularly large baby is a "jumbo jet/ jumbo Jetta." I do remember once a parent complaining to my supervisor about calling her little boy a buckaroo!!!!

When I first read the transcripts of the IMs between Casey and Tony R. it seemed that she knew Tony R. didn't kids and that's why she called Caylee a snot head. Some of my relatives used to call their kids mocosos which is sort of Spanish word for snot head. They would tease their kids with these names. I have heard people call their children worse things that a snot head in arguments.

[browneyes106]

WHaaa Whaaa Whaaaa!! He's being persecuted because he is hispanic!! GMAB!!! The only 2 people who ever mentioned his ethnic background is he and his spokes person. Except this story here, which says where he was born, etc. I guess Garagos should have cried about being persecuted because he is Greek.

Why, yes, I do see where Jose Baez did not practice law for 8 years because it was a personal choice. His personal choices (lack of child support, defaulting on student loans, leasing expesive cars whilst owing big money, etc etc etc) are what prevented him from being allowed by the Bar to practice. And, of course he could make more money in his ventures, cause he wasn't MAKING any money as a lawyer.

OTOH, we have the fellow heading the department that oversees the IRS who didn't bother paying all his taxes--until it became important in his career. I didn't know people could default on student loans--they aren't even discharged in a bankruptcy. But, it does look like it can be done.

Anyway, cry me a river, Marti and Jose. Perhaps, if Jose didn't want his life picked apart by investigative reporters, and didn't want all his baggage put out for public knowledge-he might have tho't a little harder about becoming a "high profile" lawyer, for Pete's sake!!

He says he and ex-wife settled about the child support. His daughter must not hold grudges, as it seems she was working in his office @ the time Casey was spending her days there. And probably still does.

Thanks for the link, Gator!!! Can't wait for the next installment on the life and times of poor, misunderstood, presecuted because of his ethnicity Jose Baez!!!

Apparently Rules are for Fools, Amy! And he probably calls whatever he pays his daughter back child support.

I'm just waiting for the next press conference when he claims this article is some sort of hate crime. Stop crying wolf, Jose! It makes it hard for real prejudice cases! Not that he cares...imo.

I have known too many people like Jose Baez. Some of my relatives are like him. They basically play the race card whenever they can and when they mess up in life they cry racism or find ways to dodge responsibility. I have a cousin who always tries to have a know- it- all attitude but when it came to financial responsibility and responsibilities she always messed up. She went to college and majored in nursing. When she first started college she didn't have any scholarships at all because her high school grades weren't good. She took out several student loans and defaulted on them. She barely managed to graduate college and she never passed her nursing boards. A few years later my aunt and her husband who isn't the father of my cousin end up having to sell part of appliance repair business to keep my cousin from bankruptcy. Every time she messed up in college, loans or with her nursing boards she always cried that people discriminated against her because she was Hispanic. For years she bounced around from various jobs because she never passed the nursing board exams.Today she doesn't even work as a nurse. She onced worked as CNA at a nursing home but got fired because of her attitude and she cried racism that time. I agree with Amy Jose made his own choices and many of them were poor choices. He was 24 when he filed for bankruptcy and he probably jumped into business ventures without reasonable finances.

[lorettalockhorn]

Okay, I don't come from a military family...but I thought a tour of active duty was 4 years.

If JAB entered the Navy in 1986, then left active duty in May 1989, that is short of 4 years. And isn't seaman a really low rank? I had a friend in the Army who got almost automatic promotions just for functioning properly...

Just wondering...

I think enlistment is for eight years and four of those are active duty. Seaman is rated E3 and is below Petty Officer (what I remember from my sister the former Master Chief Petty Officer, USN. :patriot: ).

[DrewBerry]

[QUOTE=javahog;9188241]I swear her hips were like THIS before she got arrested!

http://i41.tinypic.com/f9oc9u.png[/QUOTe

This is too funny, Java! Another caption that will work: "I swear Cindy's ass has never been this small." HA HA! (I couldn't resist):biggrin:
DrewB

[DrewBerry]

OMG how frickin funny is that, LMAO! Loretta, once again you had me running to the bathroom before I made pee pee in my pants!!!

:beer:

Hi OS! Where does Loretta come up with these gems?! I can't stop laughing!!
DrewB

[Gatordog]

I know this is OT, but it's important...

Gator, and all those in Florida and esp in the Orlando area, please be careful and wash your hands often!:)

Health officials: Girl, 14, vacationing in Orlando tested positive for swine flu; state declares public health emergency.

BTW, thanks for that pisser of a link concerning JAB...had to admit, it didn't surprise me one bit, and I just love, love, love the fact that they are trying to cover this info with hype and spin! Kudos to the reporter too for a job Well Done! :)~

There is a part 2 to the article in tomorrow's paper and online.

I've got my alcohol gel in my purse

[Gatordog]

[QUOTE=javahog;9188241]I swear her hips were like THIS before she got arrested!

http://i41.tinypic.com/f9oc9u.png[/QUOTe

This is too funny, Java! Another caption that will work: "I swear Cindy's ass has never been this small." HA HA! (I couldn't resist):biggrin:
DrewB

Or: We took the boat out yesterday looking for missing children and I caught a fish this big.

[lorettalockhorn]

I swear her hips were like THIS before she got arrested!

http://i41.tinypic.com/f9oc9u.png

http://i41.tinypic.com/8xu52h.jpg

[lorettalockhorn]

Lookie. Cindy really, really did consider suicide:

http://i40.tinypic.com/16leq8h.jpg

From John in Florida's blog@http://johninflorida.wordpress.com/2009/04/22/what-the-real-cindy-suicide-note-said/

[DrewBerry]

[QUOTE=DrewBerry;9188243]

Well, if you want to get real naughty...

"Before I got married it was more like this..."

OMG! Java! Good One!!:biggrin:
DrewB

[lorettalockhorn]

Hi OS! Where does Loretta come up with these gems?! I can't stop laughing!!
DrewB

LMAO I google imaged fat casey; I KNEW someone would have photoshopped her!


[QUOTE=DrewBerry;9188243]

Well, if you want to get real naughty...

"Before I got married it was more like this..."

George measures himself:

http://i42.tinypic.com/2aenihg.jpg

[tv]

LMAO I google imaged fat casey; I KNEW someone would have photoshopped her!


[QUOTE=javahog;9188255]

George measures himself:

http://i42.tinypic.com/2aenihg.jpg

Oh my goodness, Loretta, it took me a minute to get this...thanks for the laugh!

[lighthousedazy]

You ladies are cracking me up tonight. :biggrin:

[DrewBerry]

You ladies are cracking me up tonight. :biggrin:


Me too! Light, I can't wait for the next court date so we can see Liar's "transformation" i.e., side effects from pork rinds. :D
DrewB

[Native Alien]

See! This is the State Attorney's fault! Look what we're reduced to when we get a crappy doc dump! :)

Can we sue them for causing us mental and emotional anguish?

[Native Alien]

I know that alot of people don't pay much attention to what Leonard Padilla has to say but every once in a while he lets out a little gem.

In a chat that he did on ustream last evening he said that there were some things that Cindy had said in her sworn deposition that he knew weren't true.

One was the statement that she made about having phone numbers and addresses for "Zanny".

Two was the fact that she stated that she had written suicide notes and com plated committing suicide herself.

Three he said that George was retired or ex LE and they don't attempt to commit suicide. They are found dead.

He also said that he thought that Casey lives 10 minutes at a time and that he didn't believe that she had any help disposing of the body and that he thinks that it will be two to three years before this case actually goes to trial.

[eatcupcakes]

I just walked into the room and the Today show was talking about this case and something about Kronk but I missed it. Does anyone know what that was about.

[Native Alien]

I just walked into the room and the Today show was talking about this case and something about Kronk but I missed it. Does anyone know what that was about.

Here you go....

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/#30557759

Hope this answers your question.

[Native Alien]

I think that the thing with Kronk is that there could be a question of did he have prior knowledge and was that knowledge obtained illegally.

In other words, his girlfriend at the time was working at the jail. Did she overhear a conversation between Casey and Bozo in which Casey told Bozo where the body was and then Kronk's girlfriend passed that information on to Kronk. All in hopes of claiming the reward for Kronk and the girlfriend.

[Native Alien]

There's a cockroach loose inside the car, and it keeps harassing them as they drive! too funny.

I was sitting here laughing out loud when I heard that one. I can't believe that a person that lives in Florida could be that afraid of a roach.