Caylee Anthony Case Discussion Only

[SaraSidle]

Java, I did not catch that. He did not take Lee's photo with him. Hmmm. I can understand Cindy not being up to seeing him in the hospital, but I thought that Lee would go to see him.

Gator

yes Lee needs to get his act together and take care of his parents. At some point almost all of that happens to all of us. I am starting to wonder about him. George does not need pictures but a lot of support. IMO

[lorettalockhorn]

I didn't catch that but it is odd. On the subject of family, does George have any? Never heard any mention of parents, siblings or anything. Just wondering.

JD, the only family of George's that I've ever heard of is the father that he threw through a plate glass window back in OH. Don't know who he has left alive. Don't think we've heard a peep out of any of his folks.

Lee was mentioned in the suicide note according to at least one of the links. Apparently he didn't take a picture of Caylee with him either, just a pic of Cindy and Casey (or maybe I misread), so I don't take that to mean much.

[SaraSidle]

I can see that Cindy might not be necessary, but I would think that since George testified to the grand jury, he will be called to repeat his testimony (unless it can be stipulated).



It makes no sense to me that George continues to deny that Casey was involved. He thinks her friends are responsible?? Sorry George, GMAFB



Oh Loretta I think he is just brokenhearted and much may not make sense anymore except the evidence LE has. I mean murdering a beautiful smart daughter who grandma and grandpa would take care of I guess I do not see the sense in that to start with. sorry told DH I would stay out of it

[tv]

I think a lot of us have felt that George is the one that's the voice of reason (when Cindy isn't around) and kind of hoped that as sad as this cry for help from him is that it meant he was finally facing reality. From what has been revealed in the letter he wrote it looks like he still believes Casey isn't responsible for Caylee's death. Maybe some of us have been trying to make George into who we want him to be and not who he really is. At this point, I don't think anything is going to sway the Anthony's away from thinking Casey is innocent. This case gets more bizarre everyday -- I can't imagine what the next thing will be.

[javahog]

JD, the only family of George's that I've ever heard of is the father that he threw through a plate glass window back in OH. Don't know who he has left alive. Don't think we've heard a peep out of any of his folks.

Lee was mentioned in the suicide note according to at least one of the links. Apparently he didn't take a picture of Caylee with him either, just a pic of Cindy and Casey (or maybe I misread), so I don't take that to mean much.

It was during the q+a that conway said a picture of caylee and one of his wife and daughter were taken, and his medicine...

[SaraSidle]

Dani

You are so right. I grew up in Brooklyn. We had people on the block which were always checking into everyone's business. We had "the mayor", "the governor", "the police chief" and "The Putana". http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-laughing014.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org) What I find so amusing about PeeWee the frog is loves to sit on the top of the sliding door and lean out like in his picture. He reminds me of all the old Italian ladies who lived on my street. When they weren't hanging perfectly white hand washed sheets out on the line, they were sitting at the window sill. They would put a pillow on the ledge and lean out all day, watching what was going on and who was doing what.

Gator


Oh my goodness. I may never get that sight out of my head now. God love all nosey Italian women.

[SaraSidle]

HOLY CARP!!!

I was watching the news last night, and found out that there's a Buffalo connection to this whole debacle.

To make it even More interesting, there's a CL Message Board connection, too!!!

Read on, then I'll connect the dots for ya!!!

Connection to Anthony
investigation
Web site operator Sean Krause
interviewed
Last Edited: Thursday, 22 Jan 2009, 11:41 PM EST
Created On: Thursday, 22 Jan 2009, 11:41 PM EST

Rob Macko
NORTH TONAWANDA, N.Y. (WIVB) - It's a murder case that people across the country are following very closely. News 4 has learned there is a local connection to the investigation into who killed two-year-old Caylee Anthony near Orlando, Florida.

North Tonawanda web site operator Sean Krause was interviewed by Greta Van Susteren on the Fox News Channel Thursday night about his role in the Caylee Anthony case.

"What did Cindy tell you about whether or not she was suspicious of her daughter or not?"

"Well it took a while for her to warm up, because she doesn't trust people. That's the thing with her."

Krause began writing about the case last year, and struck up a relationship with Caylee's grandmother, Cindy Anthony by phone, e-mail, and text message.

Police investigators from Florida later interviewed Krause about something Cindy Anthony allegedly told him about her daughter Casey.

Krause said, "She had stated that she had felt that Casey had something to do with

Caylee's disappearance and I asked her to elaborate and she wouldn't comment on it further."

Casey Anthony is charged with her daughter's murder.

Caylee's remains were found last month in a garbage bag in some woods near her grandparent's home.

Prosecutors say her mouth and head were covered with duct tape, and her body was placed in a laundry bag.

She'd been missing since June, but Casey didn't report the disappearance for another month.

Krause says Cindy Anthony stopped talking to him once he talked to the cops and because she didn't like what he was writing about Casey.

Question: Do you think Casey killed her daughter?

Krause said, "I do. And it's very evident."

Krause calls Casey Anthony a manipulative sociopath, and doesn't sugar coat his feelings.

Krause said, "I hope that she sits there and rots in prison for the rest of her life with little pictures of Caylee all over her cell."

Krause says he's not sure if his cooperation will help the investigation or not.

He was on Fox News Channel for about six minutes Thursday night and says this was his first national television appearance.

http://www.wivb.com/dpp/news/connection_to_anthony_investigation_090122


Okay-first of all, there's Sean. His website is the notorious TheDailyBS.com, where he's been tearing Cindy, George and Casey a new one since this whole fiasco began...it's an interesting site, and Sean has some interesting views.

http://thedailybs.com/news/

He's a GREAT RESEARCHER, which brings me to our CL Message Boards connection.

Sean comes by his investigative skills through an interesting link.

Our good friend...








Drum-roll, please....






DAVID LOHR!!!

David is Sean's UNCLE!!!!

I damn near wet my pants watching the news cast and connecting those dots.

The only part I REALLY wasn't aware of was the fact that Sean is basically my neighbor!!!

He's about a 20 minute drive from my house!!!

you go GF waay too strange. cannot handle it.

[Amy]

Good morning, my friend! Got home late last night, started reading posts, and by then it was 3:30 or so but I had to answer FD's post. This AM I woke with a mutha of a headache ~ 2 cups of cawffee aren't helping, I think I need an Advil and a short nap! Love red wine, but 2 glasses does that to me now that I'm old as dirt, LOL unless it was from lack of sleep too (3 hours).

I will answer the PM :) to you, and then you can play like me in your posts!

Brad is C & G's atty. They were supposed to meet around 4 yesterday, he didn't show, and by 6, they called LE. Jeez, the guy was gone all day, sent the family friggen suicide texts ~ what do they think he was doing all day....fishin????!!! I understand Cindy is wrapped up in her own grief, but this is the time to lean on each other...I wish them peace in their hearts, but with this recent info of documents, it's time to hang on tight ~ to each other.

ME http://i39.tinypic.com/4jkkt2.jpg

The program I was watching on LHN gave information that he had other appointments (I think 2) before the 4pm meeting w/the attorney. It seems he didn't make those appointments, either, but guess they weren't the type where the ones he was to meet w/would call his house to find out. They didn't say that Cindy had known he hadn't met those appointments. From what was being said on the program, he didn't start the text messaging until even after LE had been first called. So, I can see that they might wait til 6. And, get to talking about his frame of mind during the wait, and perhaps start looking around the house and found the meds gone and then making the call.

[Amy]

OT too: our neighborhood was a lot like that, built in 1939 and a lot of the original owners were still here a few years ago. But as they've been passing on and younger families like ours moving in, its a lot more isolated and no "watch dogs" like good old Gordon the bored retired cop...I miss the true neighborhood watch...

Now, my alarm system is Ollie the huge loud dog. Darn effective-I've seen suspicious characters scuttle down my stairs after he noted their presence...

Our watch dog is a little beagle something mix (dd's dog.) Barks up a storm, has never bitten anyone. Even the local police don't come on my doorstep, lol. There was a little incident of a notice I didn't receive because the officer taped it to my porch post--on the side no one would see since the walk to the house was on the other side. Later, if I hadn't gotten up to see what the dog was yappin' about, I wouldn't have had to talk to the new police chief (a scuzzbutt if there ever was one--LOOKS like Dennis Rader, puke, puke.) I'm not bothered by solicitors @ all, no one wants to take the chance of what the dog might do. The only ones not afraid are the little neighborhood kids!!! lol

[lorettalockhorn]

It was during the q+a that conway said a picture of caylee and one of his wife and daughter were taken, and his medicine...

I think it's the WESH link that states photo(s) of Cindy and Casey, and that was supposedly according to Cindy. Won't be surprised if it takes some time for what's what to be correctly reported. At any rate, it's a true BOMBSHELL in my book, and I'm not going to bash NG when she says it tonight.

The one thing that I don't get, is why it took so long for Cindy or Brad or whoever to report George missing. Then again, Cindy was in such denial about Casey, I guess it makes sense that she would be in denial about George.

[Amy]

I agree with Poppa. You'd hope she would learn of this and it finally sink into her head what she is doing to her family. You'd think any normal person would say enough is enough, just confess so this whole mess can end and my family can have some sort of closure and try to move on. Knowing the Liar that won't happen. She'll probably send a message to her poor dad that she hates Zanny for doing this to all of them. This is so so sad. I cannot say that this is shocking. I can not image what being in that situation is like. It's bad enough on it's own but with the massive media attention on top of it, it just adds to the pain and stress. :(

Probably, since she sees herself as the victim here, she will probably be nasty about him taking the limelight from her. She probably figures that whatever happens to them is just too bad, so sad, but don't bother her with the details. Probably thinks her parents deserve all that comes their way, for any slights she might feel she received at their doing. Or, a get-back for the problems his gambling/falling for a scam caused the family (altho, she could have been out on her own, working for real and it would not have financially affected her.)

[javahog]

I think it's the WESH link that states photo(s) of Cindy and Casey, and that was supposedly according to Cindy. Won't be surprised if it takes some time for what's what to be correctly reported. At any rate, it's a true BOMBSHELL in my book, and I'm not going to bash NG when she says it tonight.

The one thing that I don't get, is why it took so long for Cindy or Brad or whoever to report George missing. Then again, Cindy was in such denial about Casey, I guess it makes sense that she would be in denial about George.

A true BOMBSHELL in the desperate search for...missing Florida grandfather George Anthony!

Does she ever need to make a new opening. They found her! She's not missing anymore! I don't know if she needs a new intro or a flash for those baby pictures more!

You are right earlier, though, Lee was mentioned in the letter, so it may not be as interesting as I thought. Probably just no Lee pictures convenient...

[javahog]

Probably, since she sees herself as the victim here, she will probably be nasty about him taking the limelight from her. She probably figures that whatever happens to them is just too bad, so sad, but don't bother her with the details. Probably thinks her parents deserve all that comes their way, for any slights she might feel she received at their doing. Or, a get-back for the problems his gambling/falling for a scam caused the family (altho, she could have been out on her own, working for real and it would not have financially affected her.)

If Caylee was killed as revenge, well, darn effective revenge. Could it get worse than this?

[Avad1228]

Dont forget George was/is a gambler, this means absences are not uncommon in their life. The first 24hours in any facility in FL usually you cant have visitors, regardless of voluntary or not. I still think Lee knew or suspected Casey at the beginning and this brought angst between him and the family. I can understand why he would want to distance himself from these two.

[Justice Denied?]

JD, the only family of George's that I've ever heard of is the father that he threw through a plate glass window back in OH. Don't know who he has left alive. Don't think we've heard a peep out of any of his folks.

Lee was mentioned in the suicide note according to at least one of the links. Apparently he didn't take a picture of Caylee with him either, just a pic of Cindy and Casey (or maybe I misread), so I don't take that to mean much.

I remember hearing that but had forgotten it. It just seems Casey should have another set of grandparents and aunts and uncles or something. George just seems so alone.

[SaraSidle]

I agree it is pretty common for killers or criminals to keep items that belonged to their victims. My uncle is a police officer who worked mostly in rape and abuse cases. He said that years ago there was a rapist who raped three women and when they did searches of his apartment they found three items of clothes and jewelry that belonged to his vicims.

got to have the trophys

[Amy]

I'm gonna answer myself!

Until I see more confirmation of the contents of the note, I find it hard to believe that investigators in LE would be yacking about the contents of a suicide note. If anyone sees more confirmation, let me know, please?

With all due respect for Mr Conway, the issue of immunity was brought up by HIM. Now, what the heck does he expect people to think when immunity is brought up? Hmmm.....possibly that there were actions taken by certain people that they would like to receive immunity for? He emphasizes that the A's NEVER asked for immunity, it was his job in his zealous effort to protect them, blah blah blah---again, WHY would an attorney need to ASK about immunity, if there is nothing to ask immunity for? Anyway, methinks he doth protest too much on that issue.

I think the media has pretty much left the A's alone ever since Caylee's body was found (I mean found, not the final ID.) The CASE will not be quietly left behind, never to be discussed again on HLN, LKL, GVS, etc, especially when there new developments come up. His plea is for the A's to be given their space, and I think they have been. Unless there is some reporters who call day in and day out to ask their opinion on things as they come up. And, if there is any, I think they should be taken and shot @ sunrise, cuz I do not think people need to get in their face. But, the fact is, the case will still be discusses on the shows and on message boards.

[javahog]

With all due respect for Mr Conway, the issue of immunity was brought up by HIM. Now, what the heck does he expect people to think when immunity is brought up? Hmmm.....possibly that there were actions taken by certain people that they would like to receive immunity for? He emphasizes that the A's NEVER asked for immunity, it was his job in his zealous effort to protect them, blah blah blah---again, WHY would an attorney need to ASK about immunity, if there is nothing to ask immunity for? Anyway, methinks he doth protest too much on that issue.

I think the media has pretty much left the A's alone ever since Caylee's body was found (I mean found, not the final ID.) The CASE will not be quietly left behind, never to be discussed again on HLN, LKL, GVS, etc, especially when there new developments come up. His plea is for the A's to be given their space, and I think they have been. Unless there is some reporters who call day in and day out to ask their opinion on things as they come up. And, if there is any, I think they should be taken and shot @ sunrise, cuz I do not think people need to get in their face. But, the fact is, the case will still be discusses on the shows and on message boards.

I find the live webcam of their house weird. Can you imagine?!

[Amy]

Do we know who is Yacking? Could it be a leak from Good Ol Jose? I could very well see someone from his office leaking that info to make the Liar look better.

I will keep checking and if there's any news, I'll let you know. Although a lot of people here are pretty quick and see it as soon as they are posted.

Gator

I wouldn't think there would be any reason for authorities to provide Mr Baez with a copy of the note. Seems that would be in police possession, either given to doctor, or @ least a copy of it. The leak would have had to come from either Mr Conway or LE. IMO I noticed Mr Padilla (Chris? Carlos?) would not discuss particulars, and neither did Chief Chitwood.

[lorettalockhorn]

A true BOMBSHELL in the desperate search for...missing Florida grandfather George Anthony!

Does she ever need to make a new opening. They found her! She's not missing anymore! I don't know if she needs a new intro or a flash for those baby pictures more!

You are right earlier, though, Lee was mentioned in the letter, so it may not be as interesting as I thought. Probably just no Lee pictures convenient...

You know, at one time, it was reported that George and Lee were on the outs (during the separation), so maybe G&C just don't keep one handy or bedside where George grabbed up his meds.

I've watched about 2/3 of the Brad Conway presser, and it's interesting his threat about not tolerating any more talk about whether or not G&C may or may not have money making in the works. (Audio was intermittent.) And I still cannot believe how long those people waited to call LE and ask them to search for George. That just gives me the willies.

Kudos to Conway for thanking LE for finding George in time, but by God, he needed to make sure that the public knew that that message was coming from the Anthonys, not just him.

LOL What's up with NG not wanting to pose for the cameras to tape a new intro?!?!

[Amy]

One of the news articles posted here said that there have been no family visitors to George. Wonder if there is trouble in the camp there?

Mr Conway says Cindy was going to see George as soon as the pc was over (guessing he was going to accompany her there?)

Anyway, for psychiatric admissions....Generally, there are no visitors allowed @ first. The client (patient, whatever is politically correct today) has to be evaluated by the psychiatrist @ least. Not just one little session, but several. Usually it is several days before "the outside world" is allowed to come back in their lives. It has been less than 24 hours since he was admitted, so she is getting to see him quite early in the process, actually.

[Lodi]

Definitely different bags...I'm pretty sure plastic garbage bags do not fade from black to gray to white, no matter how long they are exposed.

OK, I get your point ... different bag. He was mistaken about the bag because the particular bag really wasn't important. The important thing was that Caylee's body was in a bag at that location. Make's sense now.

[lorettalockhorn]

Dont forget George was/is a gambler, this means absences are not uncommon in their life. The first 24hours in any facility in FL usually you cant have visitors, regardless of voluntary or not. I still think Lee knew or suspected Casey at the beginning and this brought angst between him and the family. I can understand why he would want to distance himself from these two.

Well, supposedly Lee has moved in with G&C. So let me reiterate my wonder at the fact that this tragedy has brought this family together when they seemed to be pretty well broken before Caylee was missing/dead. And fnone of it seems to be for the support of Caylee.

[lorettalockhorn]

With all due respect for Mr Conway, the issue of immunity was brought up by HIM. Now, what the heck does he expect people to think when immunity is brought up? Hmmm.....possibly that there were actions taken by certain people that they would like to receive immunity for? He emphasizes that the A's NEVER asked for immunity, it was his job in his zealous effort to protect them, blah blah blah---again, WHY would an attorney need to ASK about immunity, if there is nothing to ask immunity for? Anyway, methinks he doth protest too much on that issue.

I think the media has pretty much left the A's alone ever since Caylee's body was found (I mean found, not the final ID.) The CASE will not be quietly left behind, never to be discussed again on HLN, LKL, GVS, etc, especially when there new developments come up. His plea is for the A's to be given their space, and I think they have been. Unless there is some reporters who call day in and day out to ask their opinion on things as they come up. And, if there is any, I think they should be taken and shot @ sunrise, cuz I do not think people need to get in their face. But, the fact is, the case will still be discusses on the shows and on message boards.

As much sympathy as I have for George right now, I feel badly for him that Conway chose today to bring up the issue of immunity. And we haven't seen them in a while, so if they are being stalked or something by the media, we aren't seeing it.

And if the Anthonys cannot tolerate the news and all the horrible FACTS that are being reported, they should unplug the TV set, or block some channels, or only watch DVDs. Or something. Their behavior is a huge part of why this case is larger than life and the stuff of fictional novels.

[Amy]

You know, thinking about picking out the jewelry...There's no dressing Caylee up, no making her pretty, there's only bones. But I can see how a grandmother would not think that way...maybe the funeral IS being held up because it makes it real.

According to Mr Conway, the hold up is with the legal issues-altho he would not say whether it was defense or prosecution. But I did get the feeling he feels Caylee should have been released for burial by now.

[lorettalockhorn]

According to Mr Conway, the hold up is with the legal issues-altho he would not say whether it was defense or prosecution. But I did get the feeling he feels Caylee should have been released for burial by now.

The State released Caylee's remains long ago, shortly after Dr. G's report (someone correct me if I'm wrong) and apparently Baez has full say so over her. But we also learned from Henry Lee weeks ago that the defense had finished its "autopsy". Why they didn't take samples at that point so that Caylee can be buried or cremated no one seems to know or have a logical explanation for. (Okay, that sentence structure is convoluted, but I don't know how to fix it.)

[Amy]

They cut off of the presser right as they were asking about the funeral! aargh!

All I caught was that the Anthony's were being remarkably patient but it was time to bury Caylee. Who did he blame for the delay? And did I hear him say the Anthonys did not know if Casey was guilty or not?

In the group of related videos listed is a 28 min video of Conway's pc. They get beyond the choking episode.

[Amy]

Whether or not this suicidal ideation/threat was fabricated, he may be impeachable because of it. If he drank eight of the beers from a twelve pack, there's no telling what he might have done (depending on what time of day he started drinking). Interesting that LE saved his life after the lambasting the Anthonys have given them. And interesting to me that Cindy/Brad didn't report him missing sooner. Or maybe I'm just not understanding the timeline.

Mr Conway explains it in detail in the 28 min video

[javahog]

According to Mr Conway, the hold up is with the legal issues-altho he would not say whether it was defense or prosecution. But I did get the feeling he feels Caylee should have been released for burial by now.

Yeah, I can't remember the wording but he flat out said she should be laid to rest. I may be projecting, but I think he was mad that Baez won't release her...

Take samples and release the body, Jose!:flamemad:

[Amy]

Can you even visit a 51-50 when they've been taken into custody?

Going by behavioral sciences in my hospital, and in say, the state hospital, there are no visits allowed for a period of time whether it is voluntary committment or Baker acted. Time for evaluations of the person, for the person to "collect" himself. I'm surprised that Cindy is already getting to see him, when they were leaving after the pc, it was no where near 24 hours even.

[Amy]

I didn't catch that but it is odd. On the subject of family, does George have any? Never heard any mention of parents, siblings or anything. Just wondering.

I dont' know how much family George has, but the fellow quoted on several occasions (one early in the case, and one after the body was found, but before the ID) was his brother in law, can't remember the name. Married to George's sister Kathy. He talked like there were other family members, but don't know the particulars, like how many, or if they are siblings. His mother lives in FL, come to think of it. Shirley Pleasa tells LE that Cindy was going to visit her MIL during her vacation, but that she didn't because she was hoping that Casey would follow thru on her promise to bring Caylee by. Don't know WHERE in FL, guess that could be in Shirley's interview, but can't remember if she named the place.

[Justice Denied?]

OK, I get your point ... different bag. He was mistaken about the bag because the particular bag really wasn't important. The important thing was that Caylee's body was in a bag at that location. Make's sense now.

Tonite on JVM they were showing pictures of George taking out the trash while the demonstrators were there. The ties on the garbage bag were YELLOW! Just thought I would share that little tid bit.

[Amy]

Oh my goodness. I may never get that sight out of my head now. God love all nosey Italian women.

There weren't any nosy Italian women where I grew up (in a minute little speck--the houses in town were far enough apart to have BARNS instead of garages) so there wasn't anyone close enough to watch, well, except the lady across the way, up the street a smidge. Anyway, we went to a school 18 miles away, and when we went to school functions, by the time we got home, our mothers already knew who had done what and to whom!!!! Now, HOW did that happen? lol

[javahog]

Tonite on JVM they were showing pictures of George taking out the trash while the demonstrators were there. The ties on the garbage bag were YELLOW! Just thought I would share that little tid bit.

nice get!

[Amy]

I find the live webcam of their house weird. Can you imagine?!

Is that still up? Geeesh!!!! Really, it ought to be taken down, IMO. Of course, some do think it should never have been put up to begin with.

[Justice Denied?]

I dont' know how much family George has, but the fellow quoted on several occasions (one early in the case, and one after the body was found, but before the ID) was his brother in law, can't remember the name. Married to George's sister Kathy. He talked like there were other family members, but don't know the particulars, like how many, or if they are siblings. His mother lives in FL, come to think of it. Shirley Pleasa tells LE that Cindy was going to visit her MIL during her vacation, but that she didn't because she was hoping that Casey would follow thru on her promise to bring Caylee by. Don't know WHERE in FL, guess that could be in Shirley's interview, but can't remember if she named the place.

thanks! that's a lot more than I knew before.

[Amy]

You know, at one time, it was reported that George and Lee were on the outs (during the separation), so maybe G&C just don't keep one handy or bedside where George grabbed up his meds.

I've watched about 2/3 of the Brad Conway presser, and it's interesting his threat about not tolerating any more talk about whether or not G&C may or may not have money making in the works. (Audio was intermittent.) And I still cannot believe how long those people waited to call LE and ask them to search for George. That just gives me the willies.

Kudos to Conway for thanking LE for finding George in time, but by God, he needed to make sure that the public knew that that message was coming from the Anthonys, not just him.

LOL What's up with NG not wanting to pose for the cameras to tape a new intro?!?!

There was information about Lee not being around for some time prior to Caylee's murder. When more information came out, it seems it had to do with his parents' split, and the kids both sided with Cindy (can't remember if she tells LE that, or FBI, but it was in one of her (Cindy's) interviews.) So, actually, neither one of the kids were on friendly terms w/George, in fact, just recently there was information on (and posts about) the fact that George and Casey had just recently reconciled shortly before Casey took off w/Caylee. Seemed like George lived in the house, but was not exactly part of the family? At least, as far as Lee and Casey were concerned, again, according to Cindy in the interview. I don't recall her saying it, but did remember reading the George slept on the couch. Was that in the emails amongst Cindy's relatives?

[lorettalockhorn]

Mr Conway explains it in detail in the 28 min video

Haven't seen the 28 minute video, but I did see Conway on JVM saying that as time went by and George missed dinner, etc. they became more worried. Sorry, but when I saw his pills missing, and he missed the meeting with the attorney and wasn't answering or calling back, I would have been on high alert. Then again, I'm not the wife who has neutered him.

[javahog]

For those who can't watch NG:

Chief Chitwood said George said everyone keeps telling him they know how he feels, and when Chitwood said he didn't know how he felt, George said he was the only one who hadn't claimed to know. How could anyone say they did, imo? Not a lot of people have been in this position.

Chitwood said he thought Lee showed up soon after he got George to the hospital

[Justice Denied?]

Mr Conway says Cindy was going to see George as soon as the pc was over (guessing he was going to accompany her there?)

Anyway, for psychiatric admissions....Generally, there are no visitors allowed @ first. The client (patient, whatever is politically correct today) has to be evaluated by the psychiatrist @ least. Not just one little session, but several. Usually it is several days before "the outside world" is allowed to come back in their lives. It has been less than 24 hours since he was admitted, so she is getting to see him quite early in the process, actually.

On NG just now, the Sheriff of Daytona Beach said Lee arrived at the hospital shortly after they did (he and George).

[javahog]

Haven't seen the 28 minute video, but I did see Conway on JVM saying that as time went by and George missed dinner, etc. they became more worried. Sorry, but when I saw his pills missing, and he missed the meeting with the attorney and wasn't answering or calling back, I would have been on high alert. Then again, I'm not the wife who has neutered him.

I think it was when he missed the meeting at 4:30 and then time went on they started poking around and noticed things were missing, like pills, but then some things weren't missing, like clothes. Bingo!

I would have called then, though, not when the scary text messages started...

[javahog]

Oh, nice!

At first Cindy was distraught, but then she got angry.

nice. maybe she can go to the psych ward and browbeat him or something. I hope they isolate him for evaluation.

[lorettalockhorn]

There was information about Lee not being around for some time prior to Caylee's murder. When more information came out, it seems it had to do with his parents' split, and the kids both sided with Cindy (can't remember if she tells LE that, or FBI, but it was in one of her (Cindy's) interviews.) So, actually, neither one of the kids were on friendly terms w/George, in fact, just recently there was information on (and posts about) the fact that George and Casey had just recently reconciled shortly before Casey took off w/Caylee. Seemed like George lived in the house, but was not exactly part of the family? At least, as far as Lee and Casey were concerned, again, according to Cindy in the interview. I don't recall her saying it, but did remember reading the George slept on the couch. Was that in the emails amongst Cindy's relatives?

I do remember something about George sleeping on the couch, but was thinking that was while Casey was sleeping on the floor of the rents' bedroom. So if George is on the couch, doesn't that make it Cindy's bedroom? But no, George keeps his pills next to the bed: Cindy's? So I guess he's back in. So to speak.

Tell you what. I wish someone would intervene and have George and Cindy forced into counseling. Oh sure, Mr. Conway's going to have them watched, or observed, or whatever he called it. That's just not enough. Casey will wipe them all out without some sort of intrusion into the inner goings on in this family.

[lorettalockhorn]

I think it was when he missed the meeting at 4:30 and then time went on they started poking around and noticed things were missing, like pills, but then some things weren't missing, like clothes. Bingo!

I would have called then, though, not when the scary text messages started...

Thought the meeting was at four, but okay that's an extra thirty minutes. So then supper time comes and goes and still they don't call. So far I've read that no medications were found in the hotel room. Does that mean that George took them all? The ones that were missing from the house? See, I can see Cindy not calling LE, but Conway? GMAB!!

[lorettalockhorn]

I dont' know how much family George has, but the fellow quoted on several occasions (one early in the case, and one after the body was found, but before the ID) was his brother in law, can't remember the name. Married to George's sister Kathy. He talked like there were other family members, but don't know the particulars, like how many, or if they are siblings. His mother lives in FL, come to think of it. Shirley Pleasa tells LE that Cindy was going to visit her MIL during her vacation, but that she didn't because she was hoping that Casey would follow thru on her promise to bring Caylee by. Don't know WHERE in FL, guess that could be in Shirley's interview, but can't remember if she named the place.

There's a Lee A Anthony(90) and Ruth Irene Anthony(83) listed in Ft. Myers; they were listed as possible relatives of George on veromi.com.

[One2Snoop]

Frequently asked questions about reform of Florida’s Baker Act

What are the criteria for involuntary psychiatric exams in Florida?

Florida law permits a mental health professional, law enforcement officer, or judge who issues an ex parte order to initiate an involuntary examination only when a person meets the following criteria:

[I]f there is reason to believe that he or she is mentally ill and because of his or her mental illness:

(a) 1. The person has refused voluntary examination after conscientious explanation and (a) disclosure of the purpose of the examination; or

(a) 2. The person is unable to determine for himself or herself whether the examination is (a) necessary; and

(b) 1. Without care or treatment, the person is likely to suffer from neglect or refuse to care for himself or herself; such neglect or refusal poses a real and present threat of substantial harm to his or her well-being; and it is not apparent that such harm may be avoided through the help of willing family members or friends or the provision of other services; or

(a) 2. There is a substantial likelihood that without care or treatment the person will cause serious bodily harm to himself or herself or others in the near future, as evidenced by recent behavior.

What happens after the examination?

If the person examined does not meet the criteria for either involuntary inpatient treatment or involuntary outpatient placement, he or she must be discharged from the receiving facility.

If the person needs treatment and meets the criteria for involuntary inpatient placement, a petition can be filed with the court. The court holds a hearing; if it determines that the person meets the criteria for involuntary inpatient placement, it can order inpatient placement for up to six months.

If, after an examination or a period of inpatient placement, a person is determined to need involuntary treatment in the community, a petition can be filed for involuntary outpatient placement. The court holds a hearing; if it determines that the person meets the nine-part criteria for involuntary outpatient placement, it can order outpatient placement for up to six months. This lesser restrictive alternative to involuntary inpatient placement became available in Florida on January 1, 2005 as a result of the Baker Act reform.

What is Involuntary Outpatient Placement (IOP)?

IOP is a court order that mandates a treatment plan be followed on an outpatient basis. In other states, it is sometimes called “assisted outpatient treatment” or “outpatient commitment.” Since the mid-1980s, Florida and 41 other states have adopted such laws.

Results from the first five years of New York’s Kendra’s Law, on which Baker Act reform was based, demonstrate that it works. While in the program, 55% fewer recipients engaged in suicide attempts or physical harm to self, 49% fewer abused alcohol, 48% fewer abused drugs, and 47% fewer physically harmed others. Quality of life also improved: 74% fewer experienced homelessness, 77% fewer experienced psychiatric hospitalization, 83% fewer experienced arrest, and 87% fewer experienced incarceration. Individuals were also more likely to regularly participate in services and take prescribed medication. These results echo those found in a randomized control study of involuntary outpatient placement at Duke University.

Who can receive IOP?

The IOP criteria applies only to those who have a history of noncompliance with prescribed treatment, combined with either repeated Baker Act admissions or serious violence —a small subgroup of the people who meet the longstanding criteria for involuntary examination. A person can be considered for IOP only if all of the following nine parts of the criteria are met:

(a) The person is 18 years of age or older;

(b) The person has a mental illness:

(c) The person is unlikely to survive safely in the community without supervision, based on a clinical determination;

(d) The person has a history of lack of compliance with treatment for mental illness;

(e) The person has:

1. At least twice within the immediately preceding 36 months been involuntarily admitted to a receiving facility or treatment facility as defined in s. 394.455, or has received mental health services in a forensic or correctional facility. The 36-month period does not include any period during which the person was admitted or incarcerated; or

2. Engaged in one or more acts of serious violent behavior toward self or others, or attempts at serious bodily harm to himself or herself or others, within the preceding 36 months;

(f) The person is, as a result of his or her mental illness, unlikely to voluntarily participate in the recommended treatment plan and either he or she has refused voluntary placement for treatment after sufficient and conscientious explanation and disclosure of the purpose of placement for treatment or he or she is unable to determine for himself or herself whether placement is necessary;

(g) In view of the person’s treatment history and current behavior, the person is in need of involuntary outpatient placement in order to prevent a relapse or deterioration that would be likely to result in serious bodily harm to himself or herself or others, or a substantial harm to his or her well-being as set forth in s. 394.463(1);

(h) It is likely that the person will benefit from involuntary outpatient placement; and

(i) All available less restrictive alternatives that would offer an opportunity for improvement of his or her condition have been judged to be inappropriate or unavailable.

Who can initiate an IOP petition?

A receiving facility administrator or a treatment facility administrator. A receiving facility administrator may file a petition for IOP if a person is examined at a receiving facility and is determined to meet the nine-part IOP criteria. A treatment facility administrator may initiate a petition for IOP if a person is at a treatment facility (i.e., a state hospital) and no longer needs inpatient placement, but could benefit from involuntary outpatient placement, and is determined to meet the nine-part IOP criteria. The petition is filed in circuit court and must include a proposed treatment plan for the individual, along with a certification from the community service provider that the services in the individual’s proposed treatment plan are available. If the services in the individual’s proposed treatment plan are not available, the petition cannot be filed.

Can family members or friends testify at an IOP hearing?

Yes. The court shall allow relevant testimony from individuals, including family members, regarding the person’s prior history and how that prior history relates to the person’s current condition.

What if the order is not followed?

The patient may be brought to a receiving facility in order to determine whether involuntary outpatient placement is still the least restrictive treatment alternative if (1) in the clinical judgment of a physician the patient has failed or has refused to comply with the treatment ordered by the court, (2) efforts were made to solicit compliance, and (3) the patient may meet the criteria for involuntary examination.

What safeguards are in the law?
snipped for length...

http://www.psychlaws.org/PressRoom/faqonbakeract.htm

[javahog]

Thought the meeting was at four, but okay that's an extra thirty minutes. So then supper time comes and goes and still they don't call. So far I've read that no medications were found in the hotel room. Does that mean that George took them all? The ones that were missing from the house? See, I can see Cindy not calling LE, but Conway? GMAB!!

The pill thing is confusing me, too...say he did take 2 weeks worth with him. There were 2 empty pill containers in the motel room. He said he took "some". And 8 beers. But they simply drove him by car to the hospital...?

They did call 738 hours faster than Casey...oh, wait, she never called...

[deputydi]

<snip>) And I still cannot believe how long those people waited to call LE and ask them to search for George. That just gives me the willies.
<snip>
At least they didn't wait 31 days.

[STLcardfan]

I find kind of disturbing that CA sent GA to pick out jewelry for cayee to be buried in. How do you put jewelry on a dismember skeleton or a pile of ashes. Seems odd to me.:shrug:

[Gatordog]

JD, the only family of George's that I've ever heard of is the father that he threw through a plate glass window back in OH. Don't know who he has left alive. Don't think we've heard a peep out of any of his folks.

Lee was mentioned in the suicide note according to at least one of the links. Apparently he didn't take a picture of Caylee with him either, just a pic of Cindy and Casey (or maybe I misread), so I don't take that to mean much.

George's parents also live in Florida - I think it is Naples (southwest). When Cindy was on vacation early in June, she was going to visit them but I don't think she did.

[javahog]

I find kind of disturbing that CA sent GA to pick out jewelry for cayee to be buried in. How do you put jewelry on a dismember skeleton or a pile of ashes. Seems odd to me.:shrug:

I thought about this and I figure it was like momentos to tuck into the coffin with her, like a favorite toy or something...it might have been costume jewelry for all we know.

ps, disarticulated, not dismembered...when people see "dismembered" they get riled up thinking she was cut up...

[lorettalockhorn]

At least they didn't wait 31 days.

Well, maybe if Conway hadn't been around, Cindy would have waited. George being such an albatross and all.

You know, if George had succeeded (if this was a bona fide suicide attempt), it would be likely viewed as some sort of admission of guilt. Possibly in the case.

[One2Snoop]

Law School Hires Jose Baez To Teach Students

Friday, January 23, 2009 – updated: 6:00 pm EST January 23, 2009
ORANGE COUNTY, Fla. -- Casey Anthony's attorney has faced plenty of criticism in the case for forgetting the judge's jurisdiction and for improperly filing court motions. Eyewitness News has now learned Jose Baez has been hired by FAMU law school to teach up-and-coming lawyers.

Baez is not teaching freshmen, he's teaching upper-level classes how to get ready for trial.

Jose Baez passed the bar exam just three years ago. He has already confused jurisdiction and botched a motion in the Casey Anthony case. Now, he's teaching law students at FAMU.

"How's it going so far?" WFTV reporter Sean Lavin asked FAMU College of Law Dean Leroy Pernell.

"I don't know yet. We've only been in session since here for a couple weeks at best," he said.

Baez is also under Florida Bar investigation over allegations he spread false statements about the prosecutors.

"If he's being investigated by the Bar, there's a reason why, and they're supposed to be setting examples for us," FAMU law student Chris Hancock said.

The law school's dean did not even know about the Bar investigation until Eyewitness News told him.

"Are you guys going to stay on top of it and see how it comes out and review it?" Lavin asked Pernell.

"Well, I think with any teacher or instructor, if there are matters that occur that would interfere with experience of students in course, we'll monitor that and take appropriate steps," he said.

Pernell said he will take no action until the investigation is over. That means Baez will keep teaching at FAMU and will earn $4,500 per semester.

Even though students were told not to talk to Eyewitness News, several said Baez has hired FAMU students to help him work on the Anthony case outside of the classroom.

Eyewitness News was unable to reach Baez for comment.

http://www.wftv.com/news/18551642/detail.html#-

[lorettalockhorn]

I find kind of disturbing that CA sent GA to pick out jewelry for cayee to be buried in. How do you put jewelry on a dismember skeleton or a pile of ashes. Seems odd to me.:shrug:

This just doesn't sit right with me either. But I know that people dress and bejewel people to be buried and cremated, so it shouldn't really matter that Caylee is skeletonized, should it?

[lorettalockhorn]

George's parents also live in Florida - I think it is Naples (southwest). When Cindy was on vacation early in June, she was going to visit them but I don't think she did.

Yes, I posted that they live in Ft. Myers according to veromi.com and whitepages.com, but didn't post their address.

[Gatordog]

I wouldn't think there would be any reason for authorities to provide Mr Baez with a copy of the note. Seems that would be in police possession, either given to doctor, or @ least a copy of it. The leak would have had to come from either Mr Conway or LE. IMO I noticed Mr Padilla (Chris? Carlos?) would not discuss particulars, and neither did Chief Chitwood.

My thinking was that Brad Conway gave a copy of it to Baez.

[lorettalockhorn]

I thought about this and I figure it was like momentos to tuck into the coffin with her, like a favorite toy or something...it might have been costume jewelry for all we know.

ps, disarticulated, not dismembered...when people see "dismembered" they get riled up thinking she was cut up...

Oh God, we went to the funeral of the grandson of one of Leroy's former secretarial pool members. Long story short, she was the caregiver/babysitter, he had some sort of viral illness, and by the time she got him in to see the doc and he was subsequently admitted to the hospital, it was too late. People who knew the family knew how much this little boy loved the farm and tractors. At the funeral home people were piling little toy tractors into the (open) casket. I have never seen so many grown men cry, including my Leroy for the first time.

[Gatordog]

Yes, I posted that they live in Ft. Myers according to veromi.com and whitepages.com, but didn't post their address.

Oye, Ft Myers. I have lots of relatives who live there. They all seem to be on the crazy side now. We joke that we're so glad to have moved to Central Florida or the southeast because there must be something in the water in Ft Myers that turns people nuts.

[lorettalockhorn]

Law School Hires Jose Baez To Teach Students

Friday, January 23, 2009 – updated: 6:00 pm EST January 23, 2009
ORANGE COUNTY, Fla. -- Casey Anthony's attorney has faced plenty of criticism in the case for forgetting the judge's jurisdiction and for improperly filing court motions. Eyewitness News has now learned Jose Baez has been hired by FAMU law school to teach up-and-coming lawyers.

Baez is not teaching freshmen, he's teaching upper-level classes how to get ready for trial.

Jose Baez passed the bar exam just three years ago. He has already confused jurisdiction and botched a motion in the Casey Anthony case. Now, he's teaching law students at FAMU.

"How's it going so far?" WFTV reporter Sean Lavin asked FAMU College of Law Dean Leroy Pernell.

"I don't know yet. We've only been in session since here for a couple weeks at best," he said.

Baez is also under Florida Bar investigation over allegations he spread false statements about the prosecutors.

"If he's being investigated by the Bar, there's a reason why, and they're supposed to be setting examples for us," FAMU law student Chris Hancock said.

The law school's dean did not even know about the Bar investigation until Eyewitness News told him.

"Are you guys going to stay on top of it and see how it comes out and review it?" Lavin asked Pernell.

"Well, I think with any teacher or instructor, if there are matters that occur that would interfere with experience of students in course, we'll monitor that and take appropriate steps," he said.

Pernell said he will take no action until the investigation is over. That means Baez will keep teaching at FAMU and will earn $4,500 per semester.

Even though students were told not to talk to Eyewitness News, several said Baez has hired FAMU students to help him work on the Anthony case outside of the classroom.

Eyewitness News was unable to reach Baez for comment.

http://www.wftv.com/news/18551642/detail.html#-

Okay, so now we know what the Eff in FAMU stands for. :rolleyes:

[lorettalockhorn]

Oye, Ft Myers. I have lots of relatives who live there. They all seem to be on the crazy side now. We joke that we're so glad to have moved to Central Florida or the southeast because there must be something in the water in Ft Myers that turns people nuts.

Fhate the airport in Ft. Myers, but anything to get us to Estero and Naples!!!

[Gatordog]

This just doesn't sit right with me either. But I know that people dress and bejewel people to be buried and cremated, so it shouldn't really matter that Caylee is skeletonized, should it?

I guess not if it is something that Caylee loved and it made her happy, then I guess it should go with her, like sunglasses for example.

[javahog]

Oh God, we went to the funeral of the grandson of one of Leroy's former secretarial pool members. Long story short, she was the caregiver/babysitter, he had some sort of viral illness, and by the time she got him in to see the doc and he was subsequently admitted to the hospital, it was too late. People who knew the family knew how much this little boy loved the farm and tractors. At the funeral home people were piling little toy tractors into the (open) casket. I have never seen so many grown men cry, including my Leroy for the first time.

I think its an instinct, especially with children, to send them off with grave goods. That is such a sad thing you described!

[Justice Denied?]

There's a Lee A Anthony(90) and Ruth Irene Anthony(83) listed in Ft. Myers; they were listed as possible relatives of George on veromi.com.

That seems logical as George's son is named Lee, perhaps after George's dad?

[lorettalockhorn]

I guess not if it is something that Caylee loved and it made her happy, then I guess it should go with her, like sunglasses for example.

It sounds bizarre at first blush, but really Caylee shouldn't be treated any differently, and the funeral home is trained and well-versed in how to handle family requests, so I'm going to push aside my first reaction. BUT I can see how George might have reacted, if nothing else to the finality of it all. He's got a lot to come to grips with.

Remember when Sharon Rocha wanted Connor in the casket in Laci's arms, and they had to somehow make her understand that Laci had no arms? It just has to be overwhelming, and not everyone can handle the realities with the grace that SR did.

[Gatordog]

Okay, so now we know what the Eff in FAMU stands for. :rolleyes:

Florida Agricultural and Mechanical University

The law school doesn't even have full accreditation, only provisional.

Gator

[javahog]

Okay, so now we know what the Eff in FAMU stands for. :rolleyes:


Even a negative experience can be a learning one...students, no pda's in jail, no contingency media deals, plea it out before they find the body...oh, students can learn so much this semester!:read:

[Gatordog]

That seems logical as George's son is named Lee, perhaps after George's dad?

Italians usually name the first born son after the paternal grandfather.

[cece5300]

After watching Nancy Grace, I have a few thoughts:

They were talking about George, and how in his suicide letter, he STILL didn't mention Caylee's death being Casey's fault; he was just going to take it to the grave with him. They were saying he was going to believe Casey to the death...but I thought maybe it was kind of the other way around. Maybe George wanted to die before he found out for sure what he (probably) suspects.

Also, they brought up a good point, about the death penalty. Casey has a good chance at NOT getting the death penalty seeing as the victim's family is also HER family. (Is that really the way it works? I guess it would make sense...) I don't usually condone the death penalty or wish ill on ANYBODY, but jail doesn't seem to be doing Casey much harm. She's just hanging out, eating, reading, and watching tv, basically everything she did at home, but minus the burden of having to take care of Caylee. If they just give her life in prison, that seems like they're going easy on her, and we are all just paying for her leisure time there. That doesn't seem fair to me.

And I agree that it's kind of disturbing about Cindy asking George to pick the jewelry for Caylee's funeral. Not exactly the concept of putting jewelry on or with Caylee, but the thing that bothers me is...I have this picture of Cindy ordering George around and not being too gentle on him in the way she probably made the request. Obviously I don't know the way things happened, but whatever, the whole entire case is a gigantic mess, so I don't know why I even try to make sense of it.

[lorettalockhorn]

I think its an instinct, especially with children, to send them off with grave goods. That is such a sad thing you described!

Don't know why it was so different from other children's funerals that I'd been to, but it was. I've seen crosses and teddy bears and dolls go into the casket, but there was something about those tractors. I think it was somewhat to honor the grandparents; of course the grandmother was feeling untold guilt, but really she took the boy in at the first sign of illness. Just one of those things.

[Justice Denied?]

I guess not if it is something that Caylee loved and it made her happy, then I guess it should go with her, like sunglasses for example.

This is just me but I think I would want my little one dressed as much as possible - shoes and socks, underwear, whatever. Even if they just laid the clothing on the bones or wrapped it around them. I think it hunamize the remains more and make it more real to me. Like I was really laying that person to rest. But that is just me and nothing I've seen anyone do.

[Gatordog]

Oh Loretta I think he is just brokenhearted and much may not make sense anymore except the evidence LE has. I mean murdering a beautiful smart daughter who grandma and grandpa would take care of I guess I do not see the sense in that to start with. sorry told DH I would stay out of it

Tonight my father told my mother that he understood perfectly why George would want to kill himself. He said he would have done the exact thing in his shoes. As if he'd have to worry about that, I find it difficult to kill a bug. I usually try to shoo them out of the house.:o

Gator

[lorettalockhorn]

After watching Nancy Grace, I have a few thoughts:

They were talking about George, and how in his suicide letter, he STILL didn't mention Caylee's death being Casey's fault; he was just going to take it to the grave with him. They were saying he was going to believe Casey to the death...but I thought maybe it was kind of the other way around. Maybe George wanted to die before he found out for sure what he (probably) suspects.

Also, they brought up a good point, about the death penalty. Casey has a good chance at NOT getting the death penalty seeing as the victim's family is also HER family. (Is that really the way it works? I guess it would make sense...) I don't usually condone the death penalty or wish ill on ANYBODY, but jail doesn't seem to be doing Casey much harm. She's just hanging out, eating, reading, and watching tv, basically everything she did at home, but minus the burden of having to take care of Caylee. If they just give her life in prison, that seems like they're going easy on her, and we are all just paying for her leisure time there. That doesn't seem fair to me.

And I agree that it's kind of disturbing about Cindy asking George to pick the jewelry for Caylee's funeral. Not exactly the concept of putting jewelry on or with Caylee, but the thing that bothers me is...I have this picture of Cindy ordering George around and not being too gentle on him in the way she probably made the request. Obviously I don't know the way things happened, but whatever, the whole entire case is a gigantic mess, so I don't know why I even try to make sense of it.

cece, you just have to wonder if George would have even noticed if someone else had picked out jewelry for Caylee. I don't see Cindy being gentle on or about anything. & I'm for the death penalty here, too.

[Gatordog]

This is just me but I think I would want my little one dressed as much as possible - shoes and socks, underwear, whatever. Even if they just laid the clothing on the bones or wrapped it around them. I think it hunamize the remains more and make it more real to me. Like I was really laying that person to rest. But that is just me and nothing I've seen anyone do.

I guess there is no right or wrong, it's what gives the most comfort to the family.

Gator

[lorettalockhorn]

Didn't watch NG tonight..My brain is totally saturated with this case, needed a break for un momento.

Larry King just had on Dr. Phil & Mark Geragos, JVM, discussing G and the case. Did you guys know Dr. Phil had Jesse Grund on, talking about Casey's deception and how Jesse could have never known what she was going to do to Caylee. Jesse in the clip looked like he was going to cry. Poor kid, getting mixed up with that putana.......Like they just said, they would have to go off the planet to find a jury who doesn't know about this case.

SHE made it that way.

Thanks for the heads up. Maybe I'll catch a rerun and FF through Dr. Phil and Geragos and watch Jesse.

Don't think it matters so much that the jury hasn't heard about the case, but that they haven't made up their minds yet. There's got to be a lot that we don't know about yet, and they will need to decide the case based on the evidence presented.

[mu8shark]

She will probably do that. Casey will be convicted. I think Baez and Badan will look stupid in trial because there is too much forsenic evidence and proof of Casey's lies. If the try to keep spinning the Zanny the nanny story they will look like the biggest moron lawyers in the world. Once Casey is convicted I don't see Baez sticking around to appeal the decision. He will move on from the case. I predict he will probably continue practicing law but he will end up staying away from murder cases. I recently read an article about the lawyers of Diane Zamora and David Graham and both lawyers pretty much only defend non-murder cases. Badan will probably move onto the next high profile murder case. Well actually not that many cases get fresh looks because of ineffective counsel. It happens but generally it has to be a big mistake. So if he goes with the story she gave him, she can't come back and say, "Well he should not have believed that! He should of made something better up LOL. " I also predict he won't stay on for an appeal either. One reason I think she will not have too much success with that is because he does have an experienced team on board with him. And you can bet that if there was any deal on the table or if he wanted to approach Casey about taking one, he will probably have his experts and the rest of his team in there to lay it out for her. "This is where can go with our defense, this is how likely it will work. this is what we can't refute." In Lawrence Shillers book about the OJ case when Shapiro wanted OJ to plead he got the dna people, Cochrane, Bailey and others in a room by conference call to talk to OJ about the pros and cons. So it will be hard with all those witnesses in there if they were to do it that way, for her to say<"Oh wow, we never even talked about that. I did not know I could plead to a lesser." It is such a high profile case and taking a plea would be such a big decision you can bet it will not just be Jose and his girl in a little room making this decision. What I would see as more likely is Casey accusing Jose of some type of sexual misconduct with her. I would always be careful where i talked to her, because as we know she fabricates everything. Now having said all this, he could pull the biggest bone headed play of all time in the courtoom and botch it, but I am counting on his team to steer him through that.

[mu8shark]

I think its an instinct, especially with children, to send them off with grave goods. That is such a sad thing you described! Which in my opinion is exactly why Casey put the horse, the pooh blanket, etc with Caylee. Since sociopaths parrot normal behavior and try to feign real emotion she was trying to do what normal society's ritual was. It was not remorse or sorrow just trying to make herself seem normal in her own mind. I know it sounds crazy that she would act normal when she was by herself but maybe in her own head she was trying to parrot a feeling that was absolutely not in her. Love and grief...

[Gatordog]

Judge Stan Strickland said today that Casey Anthony must attend all court hearings pertaining to her case.

Gator

[lorettalockhorn]

Well actually not that many cases get fresh looks because of ineffective counsel. It happens but generally it has to be a big mistake. So if he goes with the story she gave him, she can't come back and say, "Well he should not have believed that! He should of made something better up LOL. " I also predict he won't stay on for an appeal either. One reason I think she will not have too much success with that is because he does have an experienced team on board with him. And you can bet that if there was any deal on the table or if he wanted to approach Casey about taking one, he will probably have his experts and the rest of his team in there to lay it out for her. "This is where can go with our defense, this is how likely it will work. this is what we can't refute." In Lawrence Shillers book about the OJ case when Shapiro wanted OJ to plead he got the dna people, Cochrane, Bailey and others in a room by conference call to talk to OJ about the pros and cons. So it will be hard with all those witnesses in there if they were to do it that way, for her to say<"Oh wow, we never even talked about that. I did not know I could plead to a lesser." It is such a high profile case and taking a plea would be such a big decision you can bet it will not just be Jose and his girl in a little room making this decision. What I would see as more likely is Casey accusing Jose of some type of sexual misconduct with her. I would always be careful where i talked to her, because as we know she fabricates everything. Now having said all this, he could pull the biggest bone headed play of all time in the courtoom and botch it, but I am counting on his team to steer him through that.

I would hope that Baez has the sense to never meet with Casey in private ever, ever again. That way he protects himself, his reputation, the character of his defense, the sanctity of his marriage to his drop-dead gorgeous wife, etc.

[Gatordog]

www,myfoxorlando.com may have clips that were shown on the news. Cindy was seen for 2 seconds on her way to the hospital. She looked very good. Even the reporter commented on how good she looked. She had her hair done, was wearing makeup and looked like she gained bsack a few of the pounds that she had lost. Ironic that I thought she would fall apart and George would be strong.

Gator

[Lodi]

After Casey ends up in prison, I can imagine the family will grow tired of going to visit her. If I were Lee, I would dread the thought of making that trip for the next 50 years.

[lorettalockhorn]

Judge Stan Strickland said today that Casey Anthony must attend all court hearings pertaining to her case.

Gator

Doncha love this judge? I realize that his order is pertaining to legal issues, but I like the idea of C Monster Anthony having to put down the pork rinds and romance novels and haul her skanky arse into court to face the music.

[Gatordog]

After Casey ends up in prison, I can imagine the family will grow tired of going to visit her. If I were Lee, I would dread the thought of making that trip for the next 50 years.

If she makes it that long in prison. I don't think she'll be in protective custody once she's convicted.

[javahog]

www,myfoxorlando.com may have clips that were shown on the news. Cindy was seen for 2 seconds on her way to the hospital. She looked very good. Even the reporter commented on how good she looked. She had her hair done, was wearing makeup and looked like she gained bsack a few of the pounds that she had lost. Ironic that I thought she would fall apart and George would be strong.

Gator

Hi Gator, its OT but it was a story on the same shows this topic is on-did they find that little boy Adji? I suddenly stopped hearing anything about him

[javahog]

Doncha love this judge? I realize that his order is pertaining to legal issues, but I like the idea of C Monster Anthony having to put down the pork rinds and romance novels and haul her skanky arse into court to face the music.

If nothing else, at least she can be inconvenienced. Oooh, didn't one of the family e-mails suggest she had OCD? Random alterations of normal schedule and complete lack of control-OCD doesn't like that! This is a good thing.

[javahog]

After Casey ends up in prison, I can imagine the family will grow tired of going to visit her. If I were Lee, I would dread the thought of making that trip for the next 50 years.

Maybe they already have. I don't see anyone going to visit her now.

[Gatordog]

Doncha love this judge? I realize that his order is pertaining to legal issues, but I like the idea of C Monster Anthony having to put down the pork rinds and romance novels and haul her skanky arse into court to face the music.

Yup, he's making sure that there are no grounds for appeal. Her next appearance will be at a hearing on January 29th. Rats, I'll be at the courthouse on Feb 2 for jury duty. I'd love to have seen her skanky arse!

Danagher and OS: I'd give her the malocchio.

http://i44.tinypic.com/34zx640.jpg

Gator

[lorettalockhorn]

Hi Gator, its OT but it was a story on the same shows this topic is on-did they find that little boy Adji? I suddenly stopped hearing anything about him

Haven't heard anything either, but it was supposed to be really cold, so have been very worried about him. Bless his heart.

If nothing else, at least she can be inconvenienced. Oooh, didn't one of the family e-mails suggest she had OCD? Random alterations of normal schedule and complete lack of control-OCD doesn't like that! This is a good thing.

We (I mean, she) sure don't!

[lorettalockhorn]

Hi Gator, its OT but it was a story on the same shows this topic is on-did they find that little boy Adji? I suddenly stopped hearing anything about him

Interesting article:

http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2009/jan/21/brent-batten-abducting-child-profile-cowardice/

From google news:

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&tab=wn&ned=us&q=adji

[Gatordog]

Haven't heard anything either, but it was supposed to be really cold, so have been very worried about him. Bless his heart.



We (I mean, she) sure don't!

There were no reports or amber alerts here in Central Florida regarding Adji. I've only seen it on NG. I find it very suspicious that the family would let a boy with the capacity of a two year old play outside by himself. My doubting nature tells me theres more to the story.

Gator

[One2Snoop]

After watching Nancy Grace, I have a few thoughts:

They were talking about George, and how in his suicide letter, he STILL didn't mention Caylee's death being Casey's fault; he was just going to take it to the grave with him. They were saying he was going to believe Casey to the death...but I thought maybe it was kind of the other way around. Maybe George wanted to die before he found out for sure what he (probably) suspects.

Also, they brought up a good point, about the death penalty. Casey has a good chance at NOT getting the death penalty seeing as the victim's family is also HER family. (Is that really the way it works? I guess it would make sense...) I don't usually condone the death penalty or wish ill on ANYBODY, but jail doesn't seem to be doing Casey much harm. She's just hanging out, eating, reading, and watching tv, basically everything she did at home, but minus the burden of having to take care of Caylee. If they just give her life in prison, that seems like they're going easy on her, and we are all just paying for her leisure time there. That doesn't seem fair to me.

And I agree that it's kind of disturbing about Cindy asking George to pick the jewelry for Caylee's funeral. Not exactly the concept of putting jewelry on or with Caylee, but the thing that bothers me is...I have this picture of Cindy ordering George around and not being too gentle on him in the way she probably made the request. Obviously I don't know the way things happened, but whatever, the whole entire case is a gigantic mess, so I don't know why I even try to make sense of it.

ITA with your thoughts cece. Interesting thought about the jewelry - its a control thing with Cindy. Maybe Cindy did it to make George feel guilty for letting Casey walk out of the house the very last time he saw Caylee. :shrug: Sorry but she strikes me as the type of person who would hold something like that over his head. JMO.

Welcome to CL cece~! :seeya:

[sharlock]

ITA with your thoughts cece. Interesting thought about the jewelry - its a control thing with Cindy. Maybe Cindy did it to make George feel guilty for letting Casey walk out of the house the very last time he saw Caylee. :shrug: Sorry but she strikes me as the type of person who would hold something like that over his head. JMO.

Welcome to CL cece~! :seeya:
After reading the doc dumps then staying online for the next day to see if more would be released I decided to take a break for my family. I am absolutely heartbroken to hear that George attempted to kill himself. I too believe that this was because he knows Casey is guilty and wanted to be with Caylee. I really feel for him. I remember an interview where Cindy was talking about George and how she had to ride him to get him motivated to look for Caylee and before that it was all her and Lee. She went on to say now George has got off the couch I have made him a key player and went on to describe the job she had given him. George was on the couch because he was in severe depression that his daughter had killed his granddaughter and she rallied him and prodded him until he came round to her way of thinking and this says a lot to me about the dynamics in this family. Poor George I hope he can find some modicum of peace.

[lighthousedazy]

That's right, sideways! OoooFah! We give her the Italian KISS too! All sides yes. She's going to be pictured in the dictionary under the definition of MONSTER when this is over. She made history! Congrats to Casey. She makes Jack the Ripper look like a children's story. Damn her! Haterade fingers are on tonight!

I just ate a meatball grinder. I can't do the hagnog tonight.There's a place in Irmo, SC called Ballentino's pizza and grinders. My hubby who spent many years in Brooklyn asked this old southern girl "what is a grinder"? I said "I think it's a sandwich". :D

[sharlock]

This is just me but I think I would want my little one dressed as much as possible - shoes and socks, underwear, whatever. Even if they just laid the clothing on the bones or wrapped it around them. I think it hunamize the remains more and make it more real to me. Like I was really laying that person to rest. But that is just me and nothing I've seen anyone do.
I agree, it is strange though that they wanted to place something in the coffin that meant nothing to Caylee in life. The only reason I can come up with is that they were buying 2 of the item so that they and Caylee could be connected and I totally understand that.

[lighthousedazy]

George was acting normal yesterday IMO. The saddest thing I felt was when their lawyer said, "When ever anyone asks George how he is doing, he always says, 'I'm alright,' but he isn't alright." I can't imagine why he would want to continue living. I think he will do it again and succeed next time. If his wife needed him, or if she were kind and comforting, he might have a chance.[/QUOTE]
I have to purge after seeing NG tonight.

That lawyer named Daniel who found his wife murdered said it right. (I like him) He said, that until he went through what he did he would say things about those involved in cases that were painful and later apologized. He warned her and said we need to be careful about what we say. So true.

I know first hand what it feels like to be a survivor of something unthinkable and I have experienced the thoughtless comments that often put me on my knees for days. It took years for me to face people and still I am careful not to bring it up. It would take a NY second to end up back to square one if someone said something thoughtless to me regarding the past.

I have come to understand that humans cannot always feel your pain unless they have been where you are. Understandably, and yet regarding this case, I want to verbally strike out against this family. I am sympathetic and still angry at Casey and Cindy. George was acting normal yesterday IMO. The saddest thing I felt was when their lawyer said, "When ever anyone asks George how he is doing, he always says, 'I'm alright,' but he isn't alright." I can't imagine why he would want to continue living. I think he will do it again and succeed next time. If his wife needed him, or if she were kind and comforting, he might have a chance.Cindy is very much like her daughter. It is all about "show" and appearance. She and George could have had a loving and caring relationship and definately helped eachother out during this but I don't think that is the case either. jmo

[sharlock]

I have to purge after seeing NG tonight.

That lawyer named Daniel who found his wife murdered said it right. (I like him) He said, that until he went through what he did he would say things about those involved in cases that were painful and later apologized. He warned her and said we need to be careful about what we say. So true.

I know first hand what it feels like to be a survivor of something unthinkable and I have experienced the thoughtless comments that often put me on my knees for days. It took years for me to face people and still I am careful not to bring it up. It would take a NY second to end up back to square one if someone said something thoughtless to me regarding the past.

I have come to understand that humans cannot always feel your pain unless they have been where you are. Understandably, and yet regarding this case, I want to verbally strike out against this family. I am sympathetic and still angry at Casey and Cindy. George was acting normal yesterday IMO. The saddest thing I felt was when their lawyer said, "When ever anyone asks George how he is doing, he always says, 'I'm alright,' but he isn't alright." I can't imagine why he would want to continue living. I think he will do it again and succeed next time. If his wife needed him, or if she were kind and comforting, he might have a chance.
Wow Danagher, I couldn't have said it better myself! I remember after a miscarriage people telling me it was Gods way of stopping a birth where the child was not right! and one person came up to me and asked me if I was over it yet. People don't understand and the grief process is different for everyone. :rose:

[mu8shark]

Larry king rerun is on again now in NY ~ if you guys can watch it, do so............Dr. Phil & Geragos and JVM.........clip of Jesse & Dr. phil interview.

Loretta I tried both sites, cannot yet find the transcripts of Dr. Phil's interview with Jesse. If you get hold of it let me know, OK.
I missed Larry King . What did Garageass (Geragos ) have to say? What is his spin on this? That it is a tough case or is he spinning they have nothing on her? Just curious.

[SaraSidle]

ITA with your thoughts cece. Interesting thought about the jewelry - its a control thing with Cindy. Maybe Cindy did it to make George feel guilty for letting Casey walk out of the house the very last time he saw Caylee. :shrug: Sorry but she strikes me as the type of person who would hold something like that over his head. JMO.

Welcome to CL cece~! :seeya:

great post thinking of George doing this so Casey does not get DP. I hope that does not make me look like a -itch but honestly how much more drama is there??????? wow I sound really sarcastic. good night sara

[One2Snoop]

great post thinking of George doing this so Casey does not get DP. I hope that does not make me look like a -itch but honestly how much more drama is there??????? wow I sound really sarcastic. good night sara

No it doesn't make you look like a -itch. The twists and turns in this case are more than I've ever read or experienced in a lifetime - I've read plenty and experienced some but nothing like this. Casey is the one that blows me away. She obviously doesn't care about anyone but herself - I'll be curious to see if she buckles under pressure the next few days after she learns of her fathers suicide attempt. Something tells me she won't - but I'm willing to wait and see.

[browneyes106]

ITA with your thoughts cece. Interesting thought about the jewelry - its a control thing with Cindy. Maybe Cindy did it to make George feel guilty for letting Casey walk out of the house the very last time he saw Caylee. :shrug: Sorry but she strikes me as the type of person who would hold something like that over his head. JMO.

Welcome to CL cece~! :seeya:

I agree I could totally see Cindy using that against George.

[SaraSidle]

There's a place in Irmo, SC called Ballentino's pizza and grinders. My hubby who spent many years in Brooklyn asked this old southern girl "what is a grinder"? I said "I think it's a sandwich". :D

waaay too cute LHD. My DH is from the south and I am from the east so we have lots of fun discussions but I am not going to go there now. LOL

[SaraSidle]

No it doesn't make you look like a -itch. The twists and turns in this case are more than I've ever read or experienced in a lifetime - I've read plenty and experienced some but nothing like this. Casey is the one that blows me away. She obviously doesn't care about anyone but herself - I'll be curious to see if she buckles under pressure the next few days after she learns of her fathers suicide attempt. Something tells me she won't - but I'm willing to wait and see.

Oh O2S I hate to agree but I do not think anything will change on Casey's part. I have posted and still wonder if he did this to keep her from DP.I do not know what to think anymore. Your post makes me feel better cause I know you are waaay more experienced than most of us. it is sickening bad.

[SaraSidle]

I am so amazed at the things people say to those in grief! What's wrong with saying, "I'm sorry for your loss" ? I know people feel helpless when they face a mother who has lost a child and sometimes they don't mean to hurt you but they do, with their half baked philosophies about what they think God wanted. I forgive them that, but I dread them.

Grief is an entity shar. It takes you apart and puts you back together again in a different way. It gives you gifts and it takes away your complacency. You become more alert to life itself. You gain a new perspective about the pain of others. You learn to walk a new way along with other people who have been there. IMO

I am so sorry you had to go through that.

:rose: for another angel

You can tell you both have gone through the grief thing and I do not mean that lightly. I feel part of my heart is missing and I do not know how to get it back.
I am very sorry for both of you and I wish none of us had to go through it. both angels and no smiley for it!!!!!!:patriot::patriot:

[One2Snoop]

There's a place in Irmo, SC called Ballentino's pizza and grinders. My hubby who spent many years in Brooklyn asked this old southern girl "what is a grinder"? I said "I think it's a sandwich". :D

Dang and I thought the only place grinders existed was in Kansas City, MO at a place called Mario's. Best grinders I've ever had - (I'm not a meat eater) cheese grinders were best :beer:

[SaraSidle]

Tonight the shrinkhead said that Casey is a Psychopath. Never heard that before. They usually call her a Sociopath. He said she will never have feelings or sympathy for her folks. He mentioned how she laughed in the video when her mom was crying and quoted her, "Why is she crying, she just got here" as if she really didn't know why her mother was crying. No feelings!! Nothing.
i don't expect her to give a hoot about George's suicide attempt and I expect her to be angry because he wanted to be with Caylee; her nemesis.

You know Danagher that has always made me so mad. I have a Psych and Criminal Justice Degree with a minor in sociolagy. Now everyone uses sociopath and psychpath as the same term. It has made me look real stupid at times. not on boards. I just know from past experience she does not care. it is kind of like a morals thing and she does not have any. like others I have read it is an IIIIIII MEMEMEME thing. Still do not know if people are born or raised that way. that was my goal in college but could not afford it. I do know she knows right from wrong but does not connect to it. hope they do not go for mental thing. when I heard about the heart stickers I lost it and DH said that is it. you have to remove yourself

[SaraSidle]

Dang and I thought the only place grinders existed was in Kansas City, MO at a place called Mario's. Best grinders I've ever had - (I'm not a meat eater) cheese grinders were best :beer:

Oh for goodness sake O2S. we have wonderful vegan grinders in Michigan too. You need to get out more

[SaraSidle]

I agree, it is strange though that they wanted to place something in the coffin that meant nothing to Caylee in life. The only reason I can come up with is that they were buying 2 of the item so that they and Caylee could be connected and I totally understand that.

I would just love to see her with her favorite toys buried. I know her favorite doll was in the car when it was towed. poor baby. I know she is already in heaven. Everyone remember that. Remains are remains even though I am so happy she is found. never mind. makes me sick

[SaraSidle]

Some call it a sub around these parts. But believe me, it is no ordinary sandwich! It is a long mini loaf of Italian bread and in it, goes- anything -from tuna to eggplant to turkey to, you name it. Nothing like a good grinder. Tonight I put a few meatballs and covered them with mozzarella. I nuked that for a minute and put it in the grinder roll. It was so good!

you go girl. I think MI subs/grinders are the best however. I do not know how I would handle a whole meatball in bread. I have a little mouth but I talk way too much here LOL

[lighthousedazy]

You know Danagher that has always made me so mad. I have a Psych and Criminal Justice Degree with a minor in sociolagy. Now everyone uses sociopath and psychpath as the same term. It has made me look real stupid at times. not on boards. I just know from past experience she does not care. it is kind of like a morals thing and she does not have any. like others I have read it is an IIIIIII MEMEMEME thing. Still do not know if people are born or raised that way. that was my goal in college but could not afford it. I do know she knows right from wrong but does not connect to it. hope they do not go for mental thing. when I heard about the heart stickers I lost it and DH said that is it. you have to remove yourself
I have only had 1 psychology course, but I don't understand that either. Every time I have googled psychopath and sociopath, they are synonymous, and I never really thought that would be the case. In Casey's case I would classify her as a sociopath, but I think of a psychopath as an insane criminal type such as Hannibal Lecter (Silence of the Lambs) or as a serial killer. In my own opinion, I do consider caysee as insane, but not legally. I think she did know right from wrong and I think she should get the DP. jmo

[lighthousedazy]

I agree. Good post as always. I know that we can survive grief. It pays respect to life. But this case is not ordinary in any way. I don't have a lot of hope for George.
Sad...
I don't have a whole lot of hope either, but I do believe that every problem is temporary ( I know this is hard to see), but death is permanent. jmo :rose: I do hope he gets the psychological counseling and meds if needed. I think he and Cindy should both be watched. jmo

[One2Snoop]

Some call it a sub around these parts. But believe me, it is no ordinary sandwich! It is a long mini loaf of Italian bread and in it, goes- anything -from tuna to eggplant to turkey to, you name it. Nothing like a good grinder. Tonight I put a few meatballs and covered them with mozzarella. I nuked that for a minute and put it in the grinder roll. It was so good!

Exactly the way I remember it - although the only option we had was cheese, meatball, or sausage grinder. Being a vegan, of course cheese was my favorite although all my meat eating friends loved the meatball and sausage. :beer:

It's late, G'night all.

[SaraSidle]

I have only had 1 psychology course, but I don't understand that either. Every time I have googled psychopath and sociopath, they are synonymous, and I never really thought that would be the case. In Casey's case I would classify her as a sociopath, but I think of a psychopath as an insane criminal type such as Hannibal Lecter (Silence of the Lambs) or as a serial killer. In my own opinion, I do consider caysee as insane, but not legally. I think she did know right from wrong and I think she should get the DP. jmo

LHD I am so glad to hear that. Other than one class on abnormal psych I did not learn a lot in 4 years. but I do agree with you and it is so maddening. as I said sometimes it has made me look stupid. I do not care any more now. i have worked with many schizophrenics and sociopaths and have had to testify in court a lot. I used to be an interviwer for lawyers to help decide on a persons sanity. yea I was cheap but after 15 years you just get a gut feeling. anyways lhd enough of me. Casey absolutely has no idea of what she did and how it is effecting her family friends and the world. I can not imagine not having those feelings but she does not and I have seen it before. very sickening too. makes you feel cold inside. not much different that a serial killer actually but he is into the control thing too. she just has no morals.....................sara IMO

[SaraSidle]

ITA with your thoughts cece. Interesting thought about the jewelry - its a control thing with Cindy. Maybe Cindy did it to make George feel guilty for letting Casey walk out of the house the very last time he saw Caylee. :shrug: Sorry but she strikes me as the type of person who would hold something like that over his head. JMO.

Welcome to CL cece~! :seeya:

Hey Cece. what she said. welcome to Crime library and this case. sara
one2snoop does this a lot. good person to llisten to as the other posters here. we do not fight and disagree nicely. I am sure you will have a lot to offer.

[SaraSidle]

Our watch dog is a little beagle something mix (dd's dog.) Barks up a storm, has never bitten anyone. Even the local police don't come on my doorstep, lol. There was a little incident of a notice I didn't receive because the officer taped it to my porch post--on the side no one would see since the walk to the house was on the other side. Later, if I hadn't gotten up to see what the dog was yappin' about, I wouldn't have had to talk to the new police chief (a scuzzbutt if there ever was one--LOOKS like Dennis Rader, puke, puke.) I'm not bothered by solicitors @ all, no one wants to take the chance of what the dog might do. The only ones not afraid are the little neighborhood kids!!! lol

way too cool Amy If I was not allergic to dogs I would be there. My brother has one called Froto and he is just a sweet heart. He is friends with the 2 male cockatiels they have. so cute those beagles

[SaraSidle]

The State released Caylee's remains long ago, shortly after Dr. G's report (someone correct me if I'm wrong) and apparently Baez has full say so over her. But we also learned from Henry Lee weeks ago that the defense had finished its "autopsy". Why they didn't take samples at that point so that Caylee can be buried or cremated no one seems to know or have a logical explanation for. (Okay, that sentence structure is convoluted, but I don't know how to fix it.)

from what I have heard (no links) her body was definitely released 4 days ago on Tuesday............IMO

[mu8shark]

Exactly the way I remember it - although the only option we had was cheese, meatball, or sausage grinder. Being a vegan, of course cheese was my favorite although all my meat eating friends loved the meatball and sausage. :beer:

It's late, G'night all. OMG Snoop I used to work down the street from Marios in KC Mo . They had the best grinders.

[sharlock]

Yeah, I can't remember the wording but he flat out said she should be laid to rest. I may be projecting, but I think he was mad that Baez won't release her...

Take samples and release the body, Jose!:flamemad:
I totally agree and that is exactly what I think he meant. You know for the lambasting that conway is getting I found his speech compelling and thought provoking. I actually nearly cried and he even made me look at Cindy in a different light. My mum is a sweetheart but she is also one tough biatch when she needs to be. When family satarted going through serious issues (in no little part due to a daughter like Casey and issues with my Dad who I love dearly but has his own issues) she got hard. She had too to survive and I do wonder if Cindy isn't in the same boat.:shrug:
I was gonna leave this post there but the truth is I have even been accused of being nonsupportive and too harsh but the truth is that noone knew what went on behind closed doors and I was only stopping myself from becoming a victim. Perhaps Cindy needs a break?

[SaraSidle]

I totally agree and that is exactly what I think he meant. You know for the lambasting that conway is getting I found his speech compelling and thought provoking. I actually nearly cried and he even made me look at Cindy in a different light. My mum is a sweetheart but she is also one tough biatch when she needs to be. When family satarted going through serious issues (in no little part due to a daughter like Casey and issues with my Dad who I love dearly but has his own issues) she got hard. She had too to survive and I do wonder if Cindy isn't in the same boat.:shrug:
I was gonna leave this post there but the truth is I have even been accused of being nonsupportive and too harsh but the truth is that noone knew what went on behind closed doors and I was only stopping myself from becoming a victim. Perhaps Cindy needs a break?



sharlock this is a refreshing post for me. I think we all have lots of troubles and secrets and I will never pass judgement on anyone unless there is dna proof. I have met so many lovely people with problems that is how I am. thanks for the post. IMO

[SaraSidle]

OMG Snoop I used to work down the street from Marios in KC Mo . They had the best grinders.

Oh yeah neither one of you has had a grinder in Michigan. I can tell

[eatcupcakes]

Very off topic, but it will lighten the mood.

http://network.bestfriends.org/obamafamilydog/news/31697.html


Why did you post that, now I want them. I want all of them. If I only had a farm or lots and lots of acerage but I don't so I guess I have to satisfied with the 3 spoiled dogs I have and the one cat. Good news, hubby got a job yesterday, Yahoo.

As far as the Anthony's go I hope this will wake Cindy up and make her realize she needs to be more aware of George and his needs. It was reported that she asked him to pick out jewelry for Caylee to wear for her burial and that might have send him over the edge. I personally think he had what we use to call a nervous breakdown. I think he needs to be out of that house for awhile at least. To many memories there.

I know Cindy must be going through her own hell but she seems much stronger than George. For some reason I just can't feel really sorry for her. I wish I could but I can't. Does anyone else feel the same as me.

[eatcupcakes]

LHD I am so glad to hear that. Other than one class on abnormal psych I did not learn a lot in 4 years. but I do agree with you and it is so maddening. as I said sometimes it has made me look stupid. I do not care any more now. i have worked with many schizophrenics and sociopaths and have had to testify in court a lot. I used to be an interviwer for lawyers to help decide on a persons sanity. yea I was cheap but after 15 years you just get a gut feeling. anyways lhd enough of me. Casey absolutely has no idea of what she did and how it is effecting her family friends and the world. I can not imagine not having those feelings but she does not and I have seen it before. very sickening too. makes you feel cold inside. not much different that a serial killer actually but he is into the control thing too. she just has no morals.....................sara IMO


the two classifications have always confused me as well. I was discussing Ted Bundy with my neighbor and I said he was a sociopath and she said he was a physcopath. I did not contridict her because I to think they are just about the same but not being a person who has any experience or education regarding this, only what I have read, I am confused. Can you enlighten me. Thanks

[SaraSidle]

Why did you post that, now I want them. I want all of them. If I only had a farm or lots and lots of acerage but I don't so I guess I have to satisfied with the 3 spoiled dogs I have and the one cat. Good news, hubby got a job yesterday, Yahoo.

As far as the Anthony's go I hope this will wake Cindy up and make her realize she needs to be more aware of George and his needs. It was reported that she asked him to pick out jewelry for Caylee to wear for her burial and that might have send him over the edge. I personally think he had what we use to call a nervous breakdown. I think he needs to be out of that house for awhile at least. To many memories there.

I know Cindy must be going through her own hell but she seems much stronger than George. For some reason I just can't feel really sorry for her. I wish I could but I can't. Does anyone else feel the same as me.


I am afraid Cindy will not get better. I also think you are going to make me fat with your nic

[SaraSidle]

the two classifications have always confused me as well. I was discussing Ted Bundy with my neighbor and I said he was a sociopath and she said he was a physcopath. I did not contridict her because I to think they are just about the same but not being a person who has any experience or education regarding this, only what I have read, I am confused. Can you enlighten me. Thanks

Hey cupcakes. as I have stated above I have been bitten bad by the fact they are the same thing in many ways. All I can do at this point is google both and check wikipedia. I am here to tell you even with a degree I do not know the difference very embarassing . I will look it up later today. I just kind of accepted they were the same thing.

[eatcupcakes]

Hey cupcakes. as I have stated above I have been bitten bad by the fact they are the same thing in many ways. All I can do at this point is google both and check wikipedia. I am here to tell you even with a degree I do not know the difference very embarassing . I will look it up later today. I just kind of accepted they were the same thing.

Thank you. My son and I were having a discussion about it last night when we were discussing murder cases, Melanie McGuire, Scott Peterson, Stephen Grant and of course this one.

It is pretty clear to me that Sociopaths don't have feelings and that if pushed in the direction that someone needs to be removed they do it with no remorse but they are not insane. Can't it be that a physco has no feelings either but is insane. Of course what is insane. I don't accept the knowing right from wrong bit. I think you can know right from wrong but can't help yourself, you are driven to do something wrong. Like the lady in Texas who drowned all her kids, she knew it was wrong but had to do it to save their souls. Which was insane in my opinion. What ya think. Don't go crazy, no pun intented, looking it up on my account, but I do appreciate it.

[Gatordog]

There's a place in Irmo, SC called Ballentino's pizza and grinders. My hubby who spent many years in Brooklyn asked this old southern girl "what is a grinder"? I said "I think it's a sandwich". :D

He'd probably know it as a "hero".

gator

[eatcupcakes]

Thank you Sara. :)

When I am feeling like a piece of my heart is missing, I read Desiderata.It covers everything in life. I have it on my fridge. When my kids are sad, I read it to them. "It is still a beautiful world"



-- written by Max Ehrmann in the 1920s --
Not "Found in Old St. Paul's Church"! -- see below

Go placidly amid the noise and the haste,
and remember what peace there may be in silence.

As far as possible, without surrender,
be on good terms with all persons.
Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
and listen to others,
even to the dull and the ignorant;
they too have their story.
Avoid loud and aggressive persons;
they are vexatious to the spirit.

If you compare yourself with others,
you may become vain or bitter,
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.
Keep interested in your own career, however humble;
it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.

Exercise caution in your business affairs,
for the world is full of trickery.
But let this not blind you to what virtue there is;
many persons strive for high ideals,
and everywhere life is full of heroism.
Be yourself. Especially do not feign affection.
Neither be cynical about love,
for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment,
it is as perennial as the grass.

Take kindly the counsel of the years,
gracefully surrendering the things of youth.
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune.
But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings.
Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.

Beyond a wholesome discipline,
be gentle with yourself.
You are a child of the universe
no less than the trees and the stars;
you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you,
no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God,
whatever you conceive Him to be.
And whatever your labors and aspirations,
in the noisy confusion of life,
keep peace in your soul.


With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams,
it is still a beautiful world.
Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.

I copied this and sent it to all my friends. I printed out a copy for myself. Go thoughts to try and live by. Thank you.:D

[Gatordog]

I have to purge after seeing NG tonight.

That lawyer named Daniel who found his wife murdered said it right. (I like him) He said, that until he went through what he did he would say things about those involved in cases that were painful and later apologized. He warned her and said we need to be careful about what we say. So true.

I know first hand what it feels like to be a survivor of something unthinkable and I have experienced the thoughtless comments that often put me on my knees for days. It took years for me to face people and still I am careful not to bring it up. It would take a NY second to end up back to square one if someone said something thoughtless to me regarding the past.

I have come to understand that humans cannot always feel your pain unless they have been where you are. Understandably, and yet regarding this case, I want to verbally strike out against this family. I am sympathetic and still angry at Casey and Cindy. George was acting normal yesterday IMO. The saddest thing I felt was when their lawyer said, "When ever anyone asks George how he is doing, he always says, 'I'm alright,' but he isn't alright." I can't imagine why he would want to continue living. I think he will do it again and succeed next time. If his wife needed him, or if she were kind and comforting, he might have a chance.

A reporter this morning said "Cindy rushed out to see her husband in the hospital". Uh, wasn't he taken to the hospital sometime very early in the morning, like 1 a.m.? She left the house at around 5:30 pm to see him. Funny - she left the house right during the high time of evening news. I think George is right where he needs to be. He needs to be able to express his grief and have someone listen to him.

[eatcupcakes]

I love this site but after reading if for awhile I always feel like I need a drink, and I am not a drinker and it is only 6:10 am here in Phoenix. Maybe I'll go put something in my coffee. I must have something around here left over from the holidays. Lets seem maybe it is in my Papa's room where I hide the booze from my hubby, or maybe I put it in a cabinet in the kitchen, oh heck that's what happens when you get old you can't remember sheet. LOL

[Gatordog]

No it doesn't make you look like a -itch. The twists and turns in this case are more than I've ever read or experienced in a lifetime - I've read plenty and experienced some but nothing like this. Casey is the one that blows me away. She obviously doesn't care about anyone but herself - I'll be curious to see if she buckles under pressure the next few days after she learns of her fathers suicide attempt. Something tells me she won't - but I'm willing to wait and see.

O2S, another thing about this family and situation is we've learned to doubt everything. There have been so many lies and deceptions, that for me, I have doubts about everything until it's proven to be acccurate.

As far as the Liar, I can see her thinking why would her father want to die, after all, Caylee was not his daughter. She's probably thinking that he should be thinking only of her situation and that she has to eat coleslaw.

Gator

[eatcupcakes]

I am afraid Cindy will not get better. I also think you are going to make me fat with your nic

make you fat that is. But I do make really good cupcakes, all from scratch. I make them for friends parties. I love to decorate them. I wanted to use another name but this is what this site accepted. I use to be love2cook, during the Scott P case. I got thrown off a lot during that one. It was very emotional because you had lots of people on the site who thought he was innocent and people like me who were sure he was guilty. This case is different I think we all think the Liar is guilty so I don't think I'll get thrown off this time. And if there are people out there who think she is innocent, I am keeping my thoughts to myself about that.

[Gatordog]

Wow Danagher, I couldn't have said it better myself! I remember after a miscarriage people telling me it was Gods way of stopping a birth where the child was not right! and one person came up to me and asked me if I was over it yet. People don't understand and the grief process is different for everyone. :rose:

People don't understand and we are also afraid of upsetting the grieving even further. If I know someone is hurting, I start to get teary just thinking about it. Nervousness makes us blunder on in an attempt to make it better. There is no way to make such a loss better. I have tears now just thinking about it. We don't want to add to the misery but it's so hard to just say "I'm sorry" and leave it at that because that seems inadequate. I guess the best thing to do is just offer to listen when the person needs a shoulder to cry or lean on.

Gator

[Gatordog]

way too cool Amy If I was not allergic to dogs I would be there. My brother has one called Froto and he is just a sweet heart. He is friends with the 2 male cockatiels they have. so cute those beagles

Sara, I have two dogs and four cats, yet I'm allergic to both. :tongue: I could not live without a dog. I live fine without a husband, but a dog is a must. There are lots of breeds out there that work well with allergic people and the shelters are full of purebred dogs now. Very sad.

Gator

[Gatordog]

I have one daughter who doesn't eat meat. I got very creative because of it and there are a ton of grinders that she loves. One of them is egg salad. And of course Eggplant, tuna, cheese LT and mayo, and I make a vegetable medley in the frying pan with lots of cheese. Everybody likes that one. My mother was great with fried spinach in olive oil and garlic. I make calzones with that and add ricotta and mozzarella! Very good! I do eat meat but I feel guilty about it because my daughter gives me the hairy eyeball and says things like, "Ewww." LOL! When I have a party I always make sure there is something meatless on the table. Kansas City grinders? Good to know. :)

Holy Moley Danagher you're making me want to eat and I'm not even hungry. Yesterday, I had take out from my favorite restaurant Louie and Maria's. I got a cheese stromobli to go to eat today. It's sitting in my refrigerator and now it's calling to me. I'm like my dad, time of day has no meaning when I'm craving something. Cold pizza is a great breakfast and Italian bread with butter and coffee can be a great dinner.:D

Gator

P.S. You cooks better be careful. I haven't been on vacation since I got Gator so that's 13 years. I always say when he goes, I'm going to make up for lost time and travel every month for a year. I may come visit all of you. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-talk002.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

[Gatordog]

Why did you post that, now I want them. I want all of them. If I only had a farm or lots and lots of acerage but I don't so I guess I have to satisfied with the 3 spoiled dogs I have and the one cat. Good news, hubby got a job yesterday, Yahoo.

As far as the Anthony's go I hope this will wake Cindy up and make her realize she needs to be more aware of George and his needs. It was reported that she asked him to pick out jewelry for Caylee to wear for her burial and that might have send him over the edge. I personally think he had what we use to call a nervous breakdown. I think he needs to be out of that house for awhile at least. To many memories there.

I know Cindy must be going through her own hell but she seems much stronger than George. For some reason I just can't feel really sorry for her. I wish I could but I can't. Does anyone else feel the same as me.



Yeah, Cupcake's husband has found a job. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-happy093.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org) See you told us, we prayed and they were answered.

Gator

[deputydi]

Aw, I remember saying things to grieving people that made no sense because I wanted so much to help them. I had my foot in my mouth at many wakes. When it happened to me, the ones who helped me were the ones who said, "I'm so sorry for your loss." and made eye contact. Listening is good. An apple pie is good too. Letting the grieving one cry is good. The hugs were good too because I wanted to feel life. It's dark in there. Beautiful people turn the lights on and reminded me that life can be summed up in 3 words, like Robert Frost said, "IT GOES ON."

Poppa is up, time to make breakfast! :)
I volunteer for a rape crisis center. One of the very first things we are told in training (and emphasized over and over and over) is to NEVER say to a victim "I know how you feel". When the Sheriff was driving him to the hospital George asked him "Do you understand what I'm going through?" The Sheriff wisely told him NO, I DON'T. George then said he appreciated that response because everyone is telling him they do understand and there is just no way they can.

I spent some time last night reading the emails between Rick, Cindy and their mother. Rick did his best to jolt Cindy into the real world, but she was and is unable to accept the reality of all this. She finally knows Caylee is dead, but is hanging on to the unrealistic hope that her daughter is innocent. George, despite what he said in his suicide note and text messages, knows in his heart that he raised and loved a murderer. I believe this is what has him balancing on the edge.

I may be slammed for this, but my heart is still bleeding for Cindy and George. Their pain must be unbearable. I really thought that my sympathy for them would turn to anger once Caylee's remains were identified and they still denied Casey's involvement. Wrong. I may have more compassion for what they are going through than I did before the remains were found.

My guess is they will not be asked to testify for the prosecution at trial. Their testimony is not necessary to prove anything pertaining to the murder. Forensics will tell the tale and it is powerful. Everything LE needs to convict Casey will be presented through experts and the police reports. I believe the prosecution knows Cindy won't be exactly cooperative and George's mental state will do more harm than good. The defense may decide to call them but I can't imagine what they can say (other than as a character witness to mitigate Casey's sentence). The defense will challenge the forensic testimony with their own experts but the judge won't allow testimony suggesting someone else did it. There is absolutely no foundation for that.

I doubt anyone believes the "official" story about why the parents haven't been to visit Casey. Not even during the holidays. I think they are simply too distraught to face her and listen to more of her lies. They need reassurance from their daughter but, knowing her as they do, G & C have to know that won't be forthcoming. I don't think they can bear anymore of Casey's "all about me" attitude.

All of this is MOO, of course.

[Amy]

I thought about this and I figure it was like momentos to tuck into the coffin with her, like a favorite toy or something...it might have been costume jewelry for all we know.

ps, disarticulated, not dismembered...when people see "dismembered" they get riled up thinking she was cut up...

On another board, there was a poster who says that it is common in her family and others she knows, to put jewelry with the person being cremated, wedding rings and such. The jewelry is part of the cremains. Also, there are types of jewelry where some of the ashes are placed for the family to wear.

http://www.evrmemories.com/

I would think there also might be some type of jewelry that could be placed on the urn.

[Amy]

Florida Agricultural and Mechanical University

The law school doesn't even have full accreditation, only provisional.

Gator

They'd better watch this closely. One could assume that accreditation would not be granted if they have questionable professionals "leading" their students. Perhaps when they first looked into his being hired, none of this had come up yet.

Wondering (but I know it doesn't affect the case or even my life) if someone @ the school brought his name up, or if there was a position advertised and Jose applied? It just seems that if anyone @ the school read the papers on a daily basis, they would question Jose's ability to prepare for trial. I know lawyers have to request motions and things like that, but Jose's requests are---wierd to even those of us without law backgrounds--and from Judge Strickland's ruling on some of them, HE seems to indicate some are frivolous to say the least.

[Amy]

Even a negative experience can be a learning one...students, no pda's in jail, no contingency media deals, plea it out before they find the body...oh, students can learn so much this semester!:read:

I hadn't tho't of it that way, lol. WHAT NOT TO DO. Probably ought to add something about propriety in actions such as, leave the hugs @ home, read what kind of contact each jail allows, and please try to follow the rules of each jail.

[Amy]

After Casey ends up in prison, I can imagine the family will grow tired of going to visit her. If I were Lee, I would dread the thought of making that trip for the next 50 years.

How far from Orlando are the prisons that would be options to place Casey? From what I understand, there are only a few days a month that are visiting days. I wonder if one can go and visit all day, or if the length of visitation is specific?

And, Casey has to approve her visitation list. If she is the one (and not Baez, the attorney counseling her as supposedly is what is going on now) that is saying her family is not to visit her, she might very well continue this stance once she is sentenced.

[Amy]

After Casey ends up in prison, I can imagine the family will grow tired of going to visit her. If I were Lee, I would dread the thought of making that trip for the next 50 years.

http://www.dc.state.fl.us/oth/inmates/visit.html#visitation

Interesting information. Doesn't address what days are set for visitation, or length of visits, @ least as far as I read. There were more FAQ about visitation, this was just one. Maybe when I have time I will read some of the others.

So, Casey has to approve of visitors, wonder if she will approve any of her family? Wonder if Jose will apply?

[Amy]

There's a place in Irmo, SC called Ballentino's pizza and grinders. My hubby who spent many years in Brooklyn asked this old southern girl "what is a grinder"? I said "I think it's a sandwich". :D

Isn't it? I've never heard of a grinder. What comes to mind first is someone dancing on a pole. (;)) In the midwest we have feed grinders, but don't suppose that is what you all are talking about. When "meatball" is added, I think of Archie Bunker, but also think it might be a sandwich. SURELY there isn't some kind of DRINK that has meatballs in it???????

[Amy]

Some call it a sub around these parts. But believe me, it is no ordinary sandwich! It is a long mini loaf of Italian bread and in it, goes- anything -from tuna to eggplant to turkey to, you name it. Nothing like a good grinder. Tonight I put a few meatballs and covered them with mozzarella. I nuked that for a minute and put it in the grinder roll. It was so good!

Thank goodness it is a sandwich of sorts!!!! Sub, hero, hoagie. Guess the grinder is a regional type of thing. Altho, I have seen people eating meatloaf sandwiches. Never did figure that out. Meatloaf is okay, if prepared decently, but it just never appealed to me to put it between 2 slices of bread. I guess, if I really think about it, not all that much different than hamburger, tho.

[Amy]

Wow Danagher, I couldn't have said it better myself! I remember after a miscarriage people telling me it was Gods way of stopping a birth where the child was not right! and one person came up to me and asked me if I was over it yet. People don't understand and the grief process is different for everyone. :rose:

I sent a sympathy card to a co-worker who had had a miscarriage. She thanked me for recognizing they had experienced a LOSS, even if they had not held the baby, named the baby, etc.

[Amy]

I missed Larry King . What did Garageass (Geragos ) have to say? What is his spin on this? That it is a tough case or is he spinning they have nothing on her? Just curious.

I didn't happen to watch him on LKL, but the shows I have seen him on, he was more like he was before his $1M caper in CA. On the ones I saw, he did not defend Casey or even her defense team, but spoke about something that would be an obstacle to the defense, what the defense might come up with in a particular instance, etc. Just very professional, giving his opinion about legal issues the defense faces.

Like I said, that was on the shows I watched (maybe 2 or 3) and not this one in particular.

[Amy]

I am so amazed at the things people say to those in grief! What's wrong with saying, "I'm sorry for your loss" ? I know people feel helpless when they face a mother who has lost a child and sometimes they don't mean to hurt you but they do, with their half baked philosophies about what they think God wanted. I forgive them that, but I dread them.

Grief is an entity shar. It takes you apart and puts you back together again in a different way. It gives you gifts and it takes away your complacency. You become more alert to life itself. You gain a new perspective about the pain of others. You learn to walk a new way along with other people who have been there. IMO

I am so sorry you had to go through that.

:rose: for another angel

I remember from years back (but can't remember WHERE I learned it) that all one has to do to show support of the survivor(s) is to BE THERE. Some people say they don't approach the bereaved because they don't know what to say. A touch on the shoulder or hand. You don't HAVE to say anything. Or, keep it simple "I'm sorry for your loss." Another thing is, while you don't have to bring up the deceased, especially if the other person wants to talk about him/her, just listen, nod, pat their hand, etc. Some people WANT to talk, but feel they can't because those around them are uncomfortable about it. And, that's too bad. People should be thinking about what the bereaved person wants, not having the bereaved worry about what others want.

[Amy]

No it doesn't make you look like a -itch. The twists and turns in this case are more than I've ever read or experienced in a lifetime - I've read plenty and experienced some but nothing like this. Casey is the one that blows me away. She obviously doesn't care about anyone but herself - I'll be curious to see if she buckles under pressure the next few days after she learns of her fathers suicide attempt. Something tells me she won't - but I'm willing to wait and see.

Based on past actions, I don't think George's attempt @ suicide will change her actions. Might make her a little po'd that the attention STILL is on someone other than her, tho. Or find some way to swing this to think of herself as MORE of a victim. @ least, if there is no communication, no visits w/her parents, she can't berate George, can't let THEM feel her wrath about the shift in attention. IMO

[Amy]

Oh O2S I hate to agree but I do not think anything will change on Casey's part. I have posted and still wonder if he did this to keep her from DP.I do not know what to think anymore. Your post makes me feel better cause I know you are waaay more experienced than most of us. it is sickening bad.

Just a question about the dp, which the prosecution decided not to seek. If I understand posts from legal types, that COULD change. And I have seen folks post about it since Caylee was found, and have heard NG talk about it, and just the other day a TH said this is a DP case. HOWEVER, I have not read or heard anything from the prosecution that they may change their minds and seek the DP. Or, maybe it came out one day that I missed reading links to a report saying they have changed their minds, or that they are considering changing their minds?

This might have been a DP case, but if the prosecution does not petition or make a motion or whatever they have to do to reinstate going for the DP, it is no longer a DP case. If I understand things correctly.

[Amy]

I totally agree and that is exactly what I think he meant. You know for the lambasting that conway is getting I found his speech compelling and thought provoking. I actually nearly cried and he even made me look at Cindy in a different light. My mum is a sweetheart but she is also one tough biatch when she needs to be. When family satarted going through serious issues (in no little part due to a daughter like Casey and issues with my Dad who I love dearly but has his own issues) she got hard. She had too to survive and I do wonder if Cindy isn't in the same boat.:shrug:
I was gonna leave this post there but the truth is I have even been accused of being nonsupportive and too harsh but the truth is that noone knew what went on behind closed doors and I was only stopping myself from becoming a victim. Perhaps Cindy needs a break?

Many years ago, I gave my brother an ultimatum--find a job in 2 weeks, or you will have to find some other place to live. 2 weeks were up, I confronted him (OMG, that was one of the hardest things I ever had to do, and scary, too) and even when he pled his case that he HAD been looking, I stood my ground. Most others realized it was something necessary, but couldn't imagine doing it. Youngest sis (closest to bro) was very upset w/me. I think now she understands (as she has had to deal w/him) but there for a while, I was wondering if some of the family would ever talk to me again. There are so many things people go thru in their lives that others make judgment on, but your statement of no one knows what goes on behind closed doors is sooooo, sooooo very true. And each of us have to determine how we are going to deal w/the situation in order to survive, not be the victim.

[Amy]

Why did you post that, now I want them. I want all of them. If I only had a farm or lots and lots of acerage but I don't so I guess I have to satisfied with the 3 spoiled dogs I have and the one cat. Good news, hubby got a job yesterday, Yahoo.

....snip


Congrats for hubby on the job!!!! It has to have been scarey for him to not have one.

O/T (except that is the link) but, have the Obamas ever had a dog, ever wanted a dog? Is it a mandate somehow that to reside in the White House one has to have a dog? It just seems to me that they were in the financial position to already have a dog (and therefore bring their own to the White House) if they had wanted a dog. Now, maybe they DO want a dog, but what if they don't? What if they don't want even a cat? Anyway, it just seems rather odd that people (organizations) are sort of petitioning to the First Family to adopt pets, when that might not be on their agenda @ all.

[Amy]

Good girl Amy! I spoke with a girl who had a miscarriage. She said, "It is like losing any child. I had so many dreams for her and now they are never going to come true. I can't explain that to anyone because people think a miscarriage is not grief worthy. " I will always give my sympathy to mom's who have miscarriages. No matter what the child's age, it is devastating. You did a good thing Amy...

I must admit that I knew some of what she felt, having experienced 2 myself. I wonder if I would have had the insight to do that if I hadn't? But, it IS important to recognize EVERY loss as that: a LOSS.

(Don't go hitting me over the head w/a stick) but, I am not what you would call an animal lover, like so many of you are. I tolerate the pets my kids have, even help care for them, let them in out of the cold, let them out for calls of nature, see to it there is pet food in the house, etc. Even as a child, while I felt bad that a pet died, it was not quite the loss to me as to others. But, even then, it was important to let each person feel their own degree of loss. To many, many, many people, the loss of their pet is no less than the loss of a person. And others should respect that, even if they do not feel the same way.

[lorettalockhorn]

I totally agree and that is exactly what I think he meant. You know for the lambasting that conway is getting I found his speech compelling and thought provoking. I actually nearly cried and he even made me look at Cindy in a different light. My mum is a sweetheart but she is also one tough biatch when she needs to be. When family satarted going through serious issues (in no little part due to a daughter like Casey and issues with my Dad who I love dearly but has his own issues) she got hard. She had too to survive and I do wonder if Cindy isn't in the same boat.:shrug:
I was gonna leave this post there but the truth is I have even been accused of being nonsupportive and too harsh but the truth is that noone knew what went on behind closed doors and I was only stopping myself from becoming a victim. Perhaps Cindy needs a break?

I've got mixed feelings about Conway's comments. It bugs me that he brought up the immunity. Why in the world at this time? Is George's gesture connected? And why go on and on about how they have cooperated, when that is so very doubtful and he himself has remarked that once G&C have immunity, they will no longer give conflicting statements. Pffffttttt

I also wonder if this state of denial that G&C seem to be in, is in large part due to Conway's insistence that we all have this presumption of innocence. Well, of course we do, but G&C's denial is is large part dishonoring Caylee's memory. Otherwise they wouldn't lie on the record.

[lorettalockhorn]

Why did you post that, now I want them. I want all of them. If I only had a farm or lots and lots of acerage but I don't so I guess I have to satisfied with the 3 spoiled dogs I have and the one cat. Good news, hubby got a job yesterday, Yahoo.

As far as the Anthony's go I hope this will wake Cindy up and make her realize she needs to be more aware of George and his needs. It was reported that she asked him to pick out jewelry for Caylee to wear for her burial and that might have send him over the edge. I personally think he had what we use to call a nervous breakdown. I think he needs to be out of that house for awhile at least. To many memories there.

I know Cindy must be going through her own hell but she seems much stronger than George. For some reason I just can't feel really sorry for her. I wish I could but I can't. Does anyone else feel the same as me.

Congratulations on the hub's new job; so glad to hear!

Like you, I don't feel sorry for Cindy. And to have heard late last night that she's sitting some sort of vigil at the hospital where George finally has an opportunity to be safe from her actually makes me ill. Too wittle. Too wate.

[lorettalockhorn]

the two classifications have always confused me as well. I was discussing Ted Bundy with my neighbor and I said he was a sociopath and she said he was a physcopath. I did not contridict her because I to think they are just about the same but not being a person who has any experience or education regarding this, only what I have read, I am confused. Can you enlighten me. Thanks

Can't find the link that I'm looking for, but this looks like a good overview:

http://personalitydisorders.suite101.com/

&:

http://teachpsych.org/resources/e-books/faces/script/Ch12.htm

Taken from:

http://www.vanguard.edu/faculty/ddegelman/amoebaweb/index.aspx?doc_id=859

[Amy]

Amy I may be wrong, but I think the DP is back on the table due to evidence since the remains were found. The facts that warrant that probably haven't been disclosed to the the public at this point. I think at trial we are going to be shocked a lot.

I have heard people say it could be, should be, oughta be, etc etc etc. What I have not heard or seen is the state saying they are even contemplating requesting DP be put back on the table. Now, I might have missed it. But, what I am looking for is THE STATE saying THEY have put DP back on the table.

[Amy]

I think George is going to be made the bad guy here by both Cindy and Casey. Nothing new anyway. Cindy will be angry because he added to her stress and Casey will be angry because he opted to go with Caylee instead of staying with her. It has already been said, that Cindy was angry yesterday. She wants George to be strong for them but he is unable to be. No mercy for George. NONE!

Amy we're alone here today. ;)

Seems that's how it happens w/me a lot. I pick up where I last left off, posting replies to no end, to get to the current end of the thread to see I am the only one posting!!!! W/an occasional response from someone, sometimes. LOL

[lorettalockhorn]

I don't know if Cindy is stronger than George. Her denial might be. If I went to her house and tried to help, I believe she would only accept it if I agreed with her. There is no support group as far as I can see. She seems lost and for that I feel pity. If she bottoms out, I don't think she will write a suicide note, or text message anyone. She will just disappear. For now I believe she is keeping herself alive with her denial. Obviously she cannot handle the truth and I don't mean that as a clique. She absolutely can not handle it. Seeing it, would end her life. All my own opinion, as usual.

I will always keep Caylee on the horizon. :rose:

AMEN I just don't get this family. They didn't function under what now seems like good conditions; now under the worst conditions, they're just toxic.

[TheSkwerl]

Congrats to your hubby, eatcupcakes, on the job. The market is so tough right now, believe me, I know. Good news for me too, I was hired on Friday to work as the assistant to the president of a private investigator's office. I'm so excited, and this was the job I wanted so it's a win/win.:)
I'm really on the fence about George. One side of me says that yes, he's experiencing something so horrific in his life right now, maybe he felt that this was the only way to ease his pain. I don't see Cindy as the understanding and listening type of spouse (with all the separation and divorce news, maybe he didn't feel that he could talk to her). The other side of me says that he's harboring a secret and he would rather die than expose it. I think I'm gonna let this one play out.:shrug:

[lorettalockhorn]

Holy Moley Danagher you're making me want to eat and I'm not even hungry. Yesterday, I had take out from my favorite restaurant Louie and Maria's. I got a cheese stromobli to go to eat today. It's sitting in my refrigerator and now it's calling to me. I'm like my dad, time of day has no meaning when I'm craving something. Cold pizza is a great breakfast and Italian bread with butter and coffee can be a great dinner.:D

Gator

P.S. You cooks better be careful. I haven't been on vacation since I got Gator so that's 13 years. I always say when he goes, I'm going to make up for lost time and travel every month for a year. I may come visit all of you. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-talk002.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

You eat like I do! Whatever looks good, regardless of the time of day. I love to cook; put me on your itinerary!

[browneyes106]

Why did you post that, now I want them. I want all of them. If I only had a farm or lots and lots of acerage but I don't so I guess I have to satisfied with the 3 spoiled dogs I have and the one cat. Good news, hubby got a job yesterday, Yahoo.

As far as the Anthony's go I hope this will wake Cindy up and make her realize she needs to be more aware of George and his needs. It was reported that she asked him to pick out jewelry for Caylee to wear for her burial and that might have send him over the edge. I personally think he had what we use to call a nervous breakdown. I think he needs to be out of that house for awhile at least. To many memories there.

I know Cindy must be going through her own hell but she seems much stronger than George. For some reason I just can't feel really sorry for her. I wish I could but I can't. Does anyone else feel the same as me.

Congrats to your hubby. I really don't feel sorry for Cindy either. She comes off as unlikeable and even a lot of Casey's friends and Jesse even said that Cindy was unfriendly and wasn't pleasant to be around. I have always found George more likeable and feel sorry for him because based on their background it seems Cindy has abused him in a lot of ways throughout his marriage she pushed him to a business career that had ended badly and they moved to another state where he had to change careers. I agree George needs to be out of that house for awhile. I also feel sorry for the Anthonys in a way because it was mentioned on NG that neither George or Cindy's extended families are standing by them. I don't blame Cindy's brother Rick for not standing by her. I'm not sure if George or Cindy have friends supporting them. But maybe George with the help of the pastor can find somewhere else to stay.

[Amy]

Very true. ITA. I am one of those softee's that let everyone and anyone in when they are out on a limb. It never fails to become a disaster. I've become more selective in my older years but there were times when I thought I'd cry myself to death because I became the bad guy and all the good I did was forgotten. One family I took in, (due to a fire in their home) took over my home. I was exhausted from keeping up with the mess. I was treated like crap. The woman even took over my phone and told callers to call back and was rude to them. She actually told me off because her family was tired of Italian food! One day I left a note, "I'll be back when you're gone" It worked. LOL!


As for imediate family, I was the bad guy for taking some of them in as well. That broke my heart badly. I still shudder when I think of it. My doors are no longer open, to their dismay. They don't know what ***MY*** problem is. SO, I hear what you're saying. :o

I get less requests for safe haven since I have let the house go to pot, lol!!! Out of all the people (brother, a niece, a nephew--twice, a sister and the kids' niece,) the only one I would not take back in is the kids' niece--BAD, BAD news, she is!!!! My kids hate my sister, and won't discuss her to this day, so I wouldn't have her back in as long as DD is here. But, otherwise, I can live with 'bout anyone. But when they start to take advantage is when the door is open for them to step out--permanently!!!

I guess the reason some of the others don't understand about the end of the line are those who didn't let the people stay with them. They admit up front they wouldn't take these people in, and say they don't understand some of the things I put up with, but when I show the "renters" the door, they can't understand how I can put someone out. Or, what did I do to make them want to leave? lol

[Amy]

I've got mixed feelings about Conway's comments. It bugs me that he brought up the immunity. Why in the world at this time? Is George's gesture connected? And why go on and on about how they have cooperated, when that is so very doubtful and he himself has remarked that once G&C have immunity, they will no longer give conflicting statements. Pffffttttt

I also wonder if this state of denial that G&C seem to be in, is in large part due to Conway's insistence that we all have this presumption of innocence. Well, of course we do, but G&C's denial is is large part dishonoring Caylee's memory. Otherwise they wouldn't lie on the record.

I can understand there being a press conference--after all, there would be those who wonder what the A's are hiding if they DIDN'T make a statement (thru their attorney, but a statement nonetheless.) But, IMO, it should have been short and sweet. Keep in the part about, "yes, George had indicated he wanted to commit suicide. Yes, he was found and transported to a hospital--you can hear/read LE press conferences for details. We continue to ask for privacy and compassion. I have no more questions. Thank you." And exit the scene.

Probably people would have then concentrated on sympathy for George and maybe even Cindy if it had ended there. But, no, HE had to bring up the publicity, the immunity (and get VERY upset about the immunity issue--he doesn't look like being upset does much for his health.) IMO

[lorettalockhorn]

I found todays' news link on CNN homepage. This is a list of text messages etc she sent and recieved after Cindy got her back home. Jesse replied, "32 days? Is that a misprint?" Tony replied, Where is Caylee? Who is this zanny nanny person?" and more...

Read on

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,481851,00.html

Thanks for the link! I don't get where MF is getting this:

MARK FUHRMAN, FORMER LAPD HOMICIDE DETECTIVE: Well, I think the most disturbing one, Great, for Casey Anthony, as she says on the morning of the 16th, Caylee has been missing for 32 days.

That means that the child has been missing, and we know the child is dead. That places the time of death squarely on June 16. There is no doubt now that that is the date of the death, and this is a corroboration.

And now you can go from that timeline, the 16th, and start putting together the body, the body that was already in the putrification stage of decomposition, was placed in that vehicle after George Anthony saw it on the 24th.

So between the 24th and the 30th, the child was moved from its original location after death. That's what the most important in this text message is to me.

[Amy]

Congratulations on the hub's new job; so glad to hear!

Like you, I don't feel sorry for Cindy. And to have heard late last night that she's sitting some sort of vigil at the hospital where George finally has an opportunity to be safe from her actually makes me ill. Too wittle. Too wate.

I'm hoping that some of the professionals @ the hospital interact with Cindy, and perhaps @ some point she sees the need to get help, also. Or, perhaps in a "family" conference, a professional can point out the need (and hopefully she will listen.)

Around here, and I would guess most places, when a person goes to therapy (the ones I know were for dependency) there comes a time for family to come to participate--sometimes it's a week thing, sometimes shorter. Anyway, a co-worker's DH was sent to a place for his alcohol addiction and when his wife went for family sessions, she remained there for herself. Her's wasn't alcolol, but an addictive personality which the therapists felt she need help for.

So, it could happen, if Cindy lets her guard down long enough for someone to get thru to her.

[lorettalockhorn]

Isn't it? I've never heard of a grinder. What comes to mind first is someone dancing on a pole. (;)) In the midwest we have feed grinders, but don't suppose that is what you all are talking about. When "meatball" is added, I think of Archie Bunker, but also think it might be a sandwich. SURELY there isn't some kind of DRINK that has meatballs in it???????

LMAO at the stripper/bump and grind reference!

George's Majestic Lounge in Fayetteville has THE best meatball grinders. They used to host the Queen of the South contest too. Boys will be girls!

[Amy]

Thanks for the link! I don't get where MF is getting this:

MARK FUHRMAN, FORMER LAPD HOMICIDE DETECTIVE: Well, I think the most disturbing one, Great, for Casey Anthony, as she says on the morning of the 16th, Caylee has been missing for 32 days.

That means that the child has been missing, and we know the child is dead. That places the time of death squarely on June 16. There is no doubt now that that is the date of the death, and this is a corroboration.

And now you can go from that timeline, the 16th, and start putting together the body, the body that was already in the putrification stage of decomposition, was placed in that vehicle after George Anthony saw it on the 24th.

So between the 24th and the 30th, the child was moved from its original location after death. That's what the most important in this text message is to me.

IMO, MF has not been following the case closely @ all. And/or his investigative skills have been slipping? That is the trouble w/some of the TH's. They don't keep up with the details of the case. IMO.

[lorettalockhorn]

Just a question about the dp, which the prosecution decided not to seek. If I understand posts from legal types, that COULD change. And I have seen folks post about it since Caylee was found, and have heard NG talk about it, and just the other day a TH said this is a DP case. HOWEVER, I have not read or heard anything from the prosecution that they may change their minds and seek the DP. Or, maybe it came out one day that I missed reading links to a report saying they have changed their minds, or that they are considering changing their minds?

This might have been a DP case, but if the prosecution does not petition or make a motion or whatever they have to do to reinstate going for the DP, it is no longer a DP case. If I understand things correctly.

I've read a lot of debate about whether or not the new findings make this a death penalty case, and whether or not it could be won. But I haven't read anything about the prosecution asking for it. The jury would have to be death qualified, and I would think that it would limit Jose's role.

[lorettalockhorn]

I missed Larry King . What did Garageass (Geragos ) have to say? What is his spin on this? That it is a tough case or is he spinning they have nothing on her? Just curious.

HAHA Geragos did make an ass over himself with the Peterson case, didn't he? Don't know if I can ever regardhim the same. Just now watching LKL (fell asleep while it was recording but woke up at 4:30 and saw Joy Behar; that was worth watching. LK actually was yukking it up!)

Anyway, so far Geragos is explaining about George having been taken into custody, and says that he is surprised that this doesn't happen more often to victims in cases like this. For some reason the transcript isn't up yet.

Dr. Phil is saying that G&C have been denied the right of the ritual of the burial and funeral and how important it is. But he also says that he thinks the reason that they've been denied is with good reason.

[lorettalockhorn]

Congrats to your hubby, eatcupcakes, on the job. The market is so tough right now, believe me, I know. Good news for me too, I was hired on Friday to work as the assistant to the president of a private investigator's office. I'm so excited, and this was the job I wanted so it's a win/win.:)
I'm really on the fence about George. One side of me says that yes, he's experiencing something so horrific in his life right now, maybe he felt that this was the only way to ease his pain. I don't see Cindy as the understanding and listening type of spouse (with all the separation and divorce news, maybe he didn't feel that he could talk to her). The other side of me says that he's harboring a secret and he would rather die than expose it. I think I'm gonna let this one play out.:shrug:

Congratulations Skwerl!

[lorettalockhorn]

IMO, MF has not been following the case closely @ all. And/or his investigative skills have been slipping? That is the trouble w/some of the TH's. They don't keep up with the details of the case. IMO.

True, and GVS doesn't seem well-informed either. So I guess there's no one there to ask Mark for an explanation, or why he's going against conventional wisdom here. :shrug:

I can barely listen to him after the OJ debacle anyway.

[javahog]

After reading the doc dumps then staying online for the next day to see if more would be released I decided to take a break for my family. I am absolutely heartbroken to hear that George attempted to kill himself. I too believe that this was because he knows Casey is guilty and wanted to be with Caylee. I really feel for him. I remember an interview where Cindy was talking about George and how she had to ride him to get him motivated to look for Caylee and before that it was all her and Lee. She went on to say now George has got off the couch I have made him a key player and went on to describe the job she had given him. George was on the couch because he was in severe depression that his daughter had killed his granddaughter and she rallied him and prodded him until he came round to her way of thinking and this says a lot to me about the dynamics in this family. Poor George I hope he can find some modicum of peace.

I remember her saying that and me thinking that I knew why he wasn't motivated to look. He knew all along what they were going to find. In spite of what his lawyer said, I am sure the timing of this demonstrates he saw some things from the doc dump...poor guy.

[javahog]

I have to purge after seeing NG tonight.

That lawyer named Daniel who found his wife murdered said it right. (I like him) He said, that until he went through what he did he would say things about those involved in cases that were painful and later apologized. He warned her and said we need to be careful about what we say. So true.

I know first hand what it feels like to be a survivor of something unthinkable and I have experienced the thoughtless comments that often put me on my knees for days. It took years for me to face people and still I am careful not to bring it up. It would take a NY second to end up back to square one if someone said something thoughtless to me regarding the past.

I have come to understand that humans cannot always feel your pain unless they have been where you are. Understandably, and yet regarding this case, I want to verbally strike out against this family. I am sympathetic and still angry at Casey and Cindy. George was acting normal yesterday IMO. The saddest thing I felt was when their lawyer said, "When ever anyone asks George how he is doing, he always says, 'I'm alright,' but he isn't alright." I can't imagine why he would want to continue living. I think he will do it again and succeed next time. If his wife needed him, or if she were kind and comforting, he might have a chance.

What keeps getting me is him saying he wanted to make sure Caylee is "safe in God's arms". He just wants to make sure someone is taking care of her. He must be just wracked with pain he can't share. I hope someone is truly helping him.

[lorettalockhorn]

Geragos is speaking again, and he says there is no way for Casey to get a fair trial as it's normally referred to, and that there is no way to match up the evidence (such as the duct tape and trash bags), that the prosecution can only claim "consistency". He says that the defense has its work cut out for them, because Casey's behavior seems so inexplicable.

The preview of Dr. Phil is about him reiterating to Jesse that there was no way for him to have predicted what has happened. I would guess that goes for G&C too, but Phil is saying that they are blind and in denial.

Geragos thinks there is no one in the state of Florida who hasn't prejudged the case. *yawn*

Oh boy, I get to see Joy Behar again! Did y'all know that she's getting married to her sweetie of almost thirty years?

[javahog]

Congrats for hubby on the job!!!! It has to have been scarey for him to not have one.

O/T (except that is the link) but, have the Obamas ever had a dog, ever wanted a dog? Is it a mandate somehow that to reside in the White House one has to have a dog? It just seems to me that they were in the financial position to already have a dog (and therefore bring their own to the White House) if they had wanted a dog. Now, maybe they DO want a dog, but what if they don't? What if they don't want even a cat? Anyway, it just seems rather odd that people (organizations) are sort of petitioning to the First Family to adopt pets, when that might not be on their agenda @ all.

Obama promised his daughters a dog since they wanted one as a way to make uo for the stress of the election (he promised last year). I guess no dog before because one of them is allergic, but they are looking for a hypoallergenic dog...but that's why the adoption agenda, rather than a breeder. I say, go to a breeder if you need a specific mix the girl isn't allergic to! Special circumstance!

[lorettalockhorn]

What keeps getting me is him saying he wanted to make sure Caylee is "safe in God's arms". He just wants to make sure someone is taking care of her. He must be just wracked with pain he can't share. I hope someone is truly helping him.

Java, that bothered me too. That statement isn't just about having second thoughts about Casey's involvement, it speaks to his faith in God. That tells me this man has been completely decimated. Not just by Caylee's death and Casey and the case, but because this family cannot truly unite. Either through circumstances or disrespect for each other, or whatever.

[javahog]

Thanks for the link! I don't get where MF is getting this:

MARK FUHRMAN, FORMER LAPD HOMICIDE DETECTIVE: Well, I think the most disturbing one, Great, for Casey Anthony, as she says on the morning of the 16th, Caylee has been missing for 32 days.

That means that the child has been missing, and we know the child is dead. That places the time of death squarely on June 16. There is no doubt now that that is the date of the death, and this is a corroboration.

And now you can go from that timeline, the 16th, and start putting together the body, the body that was already in the putrification stage of decomposition, was placed in that vehicle after George Anthony saw it on the 24th.

So between the 24th and the 30th, the child was moved from its original location after death. That's what the most important in this text message is to me.

What he says here makes no sense whatsoever to me.

[javahog]

I can understand there being a press conference--after all, there would be those who wonder what the A's are hiding if they DIDN'T make a statement (thru their attorney, but a statement nonetheless.) But, IMO, it should have been short and sweet. Keep in the part about, "yes, George had indicated he wanted to commit suicide. Yes, he was found and transported to a hospital--you can hear/read LE press conferences for details. We continue to ask for privacy and compassion. I have no more questions. Thank you." And exit the scene.

Probably people would have then concentrated on sympathy for George and maybe even Cindy if it had ended there. But, no, HE had to bring up the publicity, the immunity (and get VERY upset about the immunity issue--he doesn't look like being upset does much for his health.) IMO

In the first attempt at the presser before he choked, he was starting to say something about wanting to cover a lot in the hopes the press would back off and give them some space (paraphrased). Don't think it worked.

[javahog]

HAHA Geragos did make an ass over himself with the Peterson case, didn't he? Don't know if I can ever regardhim the same. Just now watching LKL (fell asleep while it was recording but woke up at 4:30 and saw Joy Behar; that was worth watching. LK actually was yukking it up!)

Anyway, so far Geragos is explaining about George having been taken into custody, and says that he is surprised that this doesn't happen more often to victims in cases like this. For some reason the transcript isn't up yet.

Dr. Phil is saying that G&C have been denied the right of the ritual of the burial and funeral and how important it is. But he also says that he thinks the reason that they've been denied is with good reason.

I am consistently amazed we don't see a) more suicide attempts and b) more people vaulting the rail and attempting to choke perpetrators, especially in crimes against children.

Humans are amazingly strong and resilient creatures.

[javahog]

Java, that bothered me too. That statement isn't just about having second thoughts about Casey's involvement, it speaks to his faith in God. That tells me this man has been completely decimated. Not just by Caylee's death and Casey and the case, but because this family cannot truly unite. Either through circumstances or disrespect for each other, or whatever.

To have one family member kill another, not by accident, and an innocent child at that. And the only way to get justice for one is to end the life of another. How to keep functioning, I don't know...it would be the end of my life, I think...

[browneyes106]

Omigosh Casey will go with the One Life To Life Defense. Her Dissociative Identity did it. Like Jess/Tess/Bess (let's call her Cess; short for cesspool), she is not responsible for what her alter Zanny did, and will spend six months in St. Ann's only to be discharged and develop another personality. :hat:

Seriously though, it's interesting that so many of the experts on the Dream Team are forensics experts. That should tell us that the defense plans to challenge the scientific evidence in the case. As far as Camp Casey insisting that ZG is the culprit doesn't make much sense, considering that we now know that D Casey is a buffoon, and I would be surprised if he has anything in his file to show that he conducted much of an investigation. And I guess if Baez has some sort of shrink type on board, he's keeping it on the QT.

I'm an OLTL fan but I can't stand Jess/Tess/Bess storylines lol. The dream team will end up looking fools at the trial because they will spend most of their time trying to prove the existence of an imaginary nanny. I bet the prosecution rip apart the ZG took Caylee story.

[javahog]

Yep! Society won't embrace them anytime soon either. I know it would be difficult for anyone to go comfort them because no one wants the media up their Arse. Also, it's a hard pill to swallow. Maybe Mother Teresa might be able to go to them with complete unconditional compassion, but there are very few IMO who would be able to give them moral support. It's a tuff one for mere mortals. Now if Casey was the victim of another disease, like a brain tumor or Caylee died in a car accident, they would be surrounded by well wishers. But of course, they'd have to receive help gracefully.

Interesting you mention brain tumors or something. Has anyone confirmed Casey's seizure that Jesse Grund took her to the hospital for? I wonder if they have checked her over for anything like that...

[browneyes106]

I just finally read through the emails between Rick, Shirley and Cindy. I know on the topix posts Rick states that he firmly believes Jesus Ortiz isn't Caylee's father because Caylee has no traits of a Hispanic. In one of his emails he tells Cindy that. Jesus or any other man hasn't been confirmed as Caylee's father but when I read the part where Rick tells Cindy that Caylee has no traits of a Hispanic I sort of laughed. I'm Hispanic and I know several biracial people who are children of a white parent and Hispanic parent. Trust me often times they have no traits of their Hispanic parent or even their white parent. Two of my close friends have a Hispanic father and a white mother. They have blond hair and green eyes like their mother. They look nothing like their father. Their younger brother actually looks more their like their dad. Also Hispanics don't always fit the image of person with dark hair, skin and dark eyes. My mother is very fair skinned and some of her brothers and sisters have green or blue eyes. Some of Jesus' relatives might not have his features either. Maybe Jesus mom or dad has blonde hair and green eyes. If Jesus was ever confirmed to be Caylee's father Rick will look like a moron. Another thing I noticed in a respone email from Cindy to Rick she talks about how cadaver dogs can be trained to make it seem like there is a decompostion. It's seems like the Ants were already gearing up for Casey's defense.

[Spider]

Wow. I sure have a lot of catching up to do. I feel so bad for George but he is still in so much denial if he would still think that Casey has nothing to do with Caylee's death. That really bothers me. Has Cindy brainwashed him that much?

OT and on a personal note........the reason I am behind is that as of this past Wednesday I was informed that my department where I work has been "eliminated." After 21 years. "Gone. Goodbye. Seeya wouldn't wanna be ya." All three of us that made up our department have been "displaced". I started at this place when I was nineteen years old. It is all I have ever known. Hope my feline side allows me to land on my feet. I know many of you on this board have been through or have a spouse going through this. It is so hard.

Back to the topic at hand however, have there been any reports as to how GA is doing? Has Cindy been by his side?

And as for Jose BS..I hope the Bar Association fries him:flamemad:

[javahog]

Wow. I sure have a lot of catching up to do. I feel so bad for George but he is still in so much denial if he would still think that Casey has nothing to do with Caylee's death. That really bothers me. Has Cindy brainwashed him that much?

OT and on a personal note........the reason I am behind is that as of this past Wednesday I was informed that my department where I work has been "eliminated." After 21 years. "Gone. Goodbye. Seeya wouldn't wanna be ya." All three of us that made up our department have been "displaced". I started at this place when I was nineteen years old. It is all I have ever known. Hope my feline side allows me to land on my feet. I know many of you on this board have been through or have a spouse going through this. It is so hard.

Back to the topic at hand however, have there been any reports as to how GA is doing? Has Cindy been by his side?

And as for Jose BS..I hope the Bar Association fries him:flamemad:

Wow, Spider, I'm sorry! I hope you find a new position you love!

I heard Cindy is at the hospital, but I'm not sure how much they're letting her hang with him...

[Woostock]

Oh Spider I am so sorry to hear about the job loss. We are in very bad times now with so many people losing their jobs...Will send you positive thoughts.

[Lodi]

I didn't hear about that Jav. If there really were two Casey's and the one that kills came around because of a brain seizure, that might be the defense hook.
Hmmm, very interesting.

In the case of Charles Whitman, the texas tower sniper, he left a diary that requested he be examined after his death to determine if there was a cause for his recent mental problems. They found a brain tumor and concluded it could have been the cause.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/mass/whitman/index_1.html

[One2Snoop]

LOL - I found these posted at another site...

http://i41.tinypic.com/t0st52.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/2reju2w.jpg

[Woostock]

Browneyes Hola
Regarding your post. I am a bilingual teacher {Spanish} and I did a double take on that assertion. He proably based it on a few people he knew.!!!
I have some students who have very light complexions and light hair. I studied Spanish in Costa Rica and lived with a family there. The mother was a very light skinned and light haired woman and her children were also.

[lorettalockhorn]

Wow, Spider, I'm sorry! I hope you find a new position you love!

I heard Cindy is at the hospital, but I'm not sure how much they're letting her hang with him...

I find it hard to believe for some reason that the hospital would have allowed Cindy to see George when she rushed to the hospital yesterday to be with him, but I am hopeful that they've talked her into having an evaluation herself.

[One2Snoop]

Leonard Padilla Sunday JAN 25TH
7PM PST - 9PM CST - 10PM EST

Leonard will be answering questions and discussing the Casey Anthony case.

Livestream
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/leonard-padilla-live

[Lodi]

Just speculation, but I have wondered if George was serious about suicide. If you look at it in a different light, it may have been an attempt to make the family wake up. Perhaps he saw that talking wasn't bringing anyone to their senses. Could it make Casey face up to what she has done? Cause Cindy to see reality. Bring all of them out of self pity. I may be wrong but I can see how he may have had this in mind.

[lorettalockhorn]

Wow. I sure have a lot of catching up to do. I feel so bad for George but he is still in so much denial if he would still think that Casey has nothing to do with Caylee's death. That really bothers me. Has Cindy brainwashed him that much?

OT and on a personal note........the reason I am behind is that as of this past Wednesday I was informed that my department where I work has been "eliminated." After 21 years. "Gone. Goodbye. Seeya wouldn't wanna be ya." All three of us that made up our department have been "displaced". I started at this place when I was nineteen years old. It is all I have ever known. Hope my feline side allows me to land on my feet. I know many of you on this board have been through or have a spouse going through this. It is so hard.

Back to the topic at hand however, have there been any reports as to how GA is doing? Has Cindy been by his side?

And as for Jose BS..I hope the Bar Association fries him:flamemad:

Spider, good luck with your job search. We'll say a prayer and keep our fingers crossed for good measure!

Haven't heard anything new about George. Think I read somewhere yesterday that he might be released today, but that seems way too soon.

[Gatordog]

I love this site but after reading if for awhile I always feel like I need a drink, and I am not a drinker and it is only 6:10 am here in Phoenix. Maybe I'll go put something in my coffee. I must have something around here left over from the holidays. Lets seem maybe it is in my Papa's room where I hide the booze from my hubby, or maybe I put it in a cabinet in the kitchen, oh heck that's what happens when you get old you can't remember sheet. LOL

Cupcakes, i'm getting ready for that drink. :beer:

gator

[lorettalockhorn]

I just finally read through the emails between Rick, Shirley and Cindy. I know on the topix posts Rick states that he firmly believes Jesus Ortiz isn't Caylee's father because Caylee has no traits of a Hispanic. In one of his emails he tells Cindy that. Jesus or any other man hasn't been confirmed as Caylee's father but when I read the part where Rick tells Cindy that Caylee has no traits of a Hispanic I sort of laughed. I'm Hispanic and I know several biracial people who are children of a white parent and Hispanic parent. Trust me often times they have no traits of their Hispanic parent or even their white parent. Two of my close friends have a Hispanic father and a white mother. They have blond hair and green eyes like their mother. They look nothing like their father. Their younger brother actually looks more their like their dad. Also Hispanics don't always fit the image of person with dark hair, skin and dark eyes. My mother is very fair skinned and some of her brothers and sisters have green or blue eyes. Some of Jesus' relatives might not have his features either. Maybe Jesus mom or dad has blonde hair and green eyes. If Jesus was ever confirmed to be Caylee's father Rick will look like a moron. Another thing I noticed in a respone email from Cindy to Rick she talks about how cadaver dogs can be trained to make it seem like there is a decompostion. It's seems like the Ants were already gearing up for Casey's defense.

LP made many of the same comments on NG one night, you just cannot judge a person's heritage/parentage by phenotype.

BTW I read in an article about Ortiz that his family has an attorney, and also read that they learned that Jesus had been named by the Ants as Caylee's father when the media showed up on their doorstep. One of their shabbier moves.

[lorettalockhorn]

Leonard Padilla Sunday JAN 25TH
7PM PST - 9PM CST - 10PM EST

Leonard will be answering questions and discussing the Casey Anthony case.

Livestream
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/leonard-padilla-live

Thanks for the link AND the Bozo Art!!!!!!

[javahog]

I just finally read through the emails between Rick, Shirley and Cindy. I know on the topix posts Rick states that he firmly believes Jesus Ortiz isn't Caylee's father because Caylee has no traits of a Hispanic. In one of his emails he tells Cindy that. Jesus or any other man hasn't been confirmed as Caylee's father but when I read the part where Rick tells Cindy that Caylee has no traits of a Hispanic I sort of laughed. I'm Hispanic and I know several biracial people who are children of a white parent and Hispanic parent. Trust me often times they have no traits of their Hispanic parent or even their white parent. Two of my close friends have a Hispanic father and a white mother. They have blond hair and green eyes like their mother. They look nothing like their father. Their younger brother actually looks more their like their dad. Also Hispanics don't always fit the image of person with dark hair, skin and dark eyes. My mother is very fair skinned and some of her brothers and sisters have green or blue eyes. Some of Jesus' relatives might not have his features either. Maybe Jesus mom or dad has blonde hair and green eyes. If Jesus was ever confirmed to be Caylee's father Rick will look like a moron. Another thing I noticed in a respone email from Cindy to Rick she talks about how cadaver dogs can be trained to make it seem like there is a decompostion. It's seems like the Ants were already gearing up for Casey's defense.

The whole "no traits of a Hispanic" thing is stupid, imo, as there are no "traits" of "a Hispanic", but there is no resemblance between Caylee and Jesus O. He has very distinctive features, and something of him would appear...

Where I am, I have been told never to use the term "Hispanic" as that includes a racial epithet. Xicano/a is the suggested replacement, but what to use for people who are not Xicano?

[One2Snoop]

More photos found on Casey's Photobucket....

:eek: Take a look at these and notice the heart....

http://i44.tinypic.com/21kkolk.gif
Added June 29th, 2007

http://i39.tinypic.com/245kh8z.jpg
Added July 10, 2008

http://i40.tinypic.com/jj18ol.jpg
Added June 3, 2008

http://i42.tinypic.com/95x375.jpg
Added June 26, 2008

http://i41.tinypic.com/212cqxi.jpg
Added: July 7 2008, 12:47 PM Titled "Hope"[same date as diary of days myspace blog]

more at the link...

http://crimesearchersonline.com/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=31&func=view&id=3026&catid=23

[lorettalockhorn]

Just speculation, but I have wondered if George was serious about suicide. If you look at it in a different light, it may have been an attempt to make the family wake up. Perhaps he saw that talking wasn't bringing anyone to their senses. Could it make Casey face up to what she has done? Cause Cindy to see reality. Bring all of them out of self pity. I may be wrong but I can see how he may have had this in mind.

Okay, I could jack slap Dr. Phil most of the time for all his glibness, but one of the things that he pointed out last night on LKL is that people are mistaken when they assume that people who talk about suicide don't go through with it. They all too often do. However, I wouldn't put it past Cindy to hang on to some archaic idea that they don't and George wouldn't.

[lorettalockhorn]

The whole "no traits of a Hispanic" thing is stupid, imo, as there are no "traits" of "a Hispanic", but there is no resemblance between Caylee and Jesus O. He has very distinctive features, and something of him would appear...

Where I am, I have been told never to use the term "Hispanic" as that includes a racial epithet. Xicano/a is the suggested replacement, but what to use for people who are not Xicano?

I thought Hispanic was perfectly acceptable:

His·pan·ic (h-spnk) KEY

ADJECTIVE:

Of or relating to Spain or Spanish-speaking Latin America.
Of or relating to a Spanish-speaking people or culture.
NOUN:

A Spanish-speaking person.
A U.S. citizen or resident of Latin-American or Spanish descent.

I thought Xicano(a) meant Mexican specifically. That would leave out a lot of Hispanic folks, wouldn't it? My niece prefers Hispanic.

WTF can we say these days? Man, if I was hurling a racial epithet my victim would know it!

[javahog]

Spider, good luck with your job search. We'll say a prayer and keep our fingers crossed for good measure!

Haven't heard anything new about George. Think I read somewhere yesterday that he might be released today, but that seems way too soon.

Britney Spears got out in like 10 minutes, and my crazy neighbor who said Moses was telling him to kill us all got out as soon as he could recite his name and address. I hope Florida is a little more careful than California!

[Woostock]

I hope that Cindy can be evaluated also. It would be in her best interest while at the hospital to talk to a staff person there and have an eval.

[javahog]

More photos found on Casey's Photobucket....

:eek: Take a look at these and notice the heart....

http://i44.tinypic.com/21kkolk.gif
Added June 29th, 2007

http://i39.tinypic.com/245kh8z.jpg
Added July 10, 2008

http://i40.tinypic.com/jj18ol.jpg
Added June 3, 2008

http://i42.tinypic.com/95x375.jpg
Added June 26, 2008

http://i41.tinypic.com/212cqxi.jpg
Added: July 7 2008, 12:47 PM Titled "Hope"[same date as diary of days myspace blog]

more at the link...

http://crimesearchersonline.com/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=31&func=view&id=3026&catid=23

Seee! I asked a few days ago if anyone remembered that the photos were switched to b+w and red HEARTS added! I knew I remembered that!

[lighthousedazy]

Just speculation, but I have wondered if George was serious about suicide. If you look at it in a different light, it may have been an attempt to make the family wake up. Perhaps he saw that talking wasn't bringing anyone to their senses. Could it make Casey face up to what she has done? Cause Cindy to see reality. Bring all of them out of self pity. I may be wrong but I can see how he may have had this in mind.It's possible but I think he was at his rope's end and just crying for help. Could have made Cindy see reality, but I don't think casey ever would. jmo

[Lodi]

Okay, I could jack slap Dr. Phil most of the time for all his glibness, but one of the things that he pointed out last night on LKL is that people are mistaken when they assume that people who talk about suicide don't go through with it. They all too often do. However, I wouldn't put it past Cindy to hang on to some archaic idea that they don't and George wouldn't.

My thought was that this threatened (but not carried through) suicide is one of the few things that has a chance of shaking the family to their senses. He doesn't have many choices.

[lighthousedazy]

LOL - I found these posted at another site...

http://i41.tinypic.com/t0st52.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/2reju2w.jpg
So funny. LMBO :D

[lorettalockhorn]

Britney Spears got out in like 10 minutes, and my crazy neighbor who said Moses was telling him to kill us all got out as soon as he could recite his name and address. I hope Florida is a little more careful than California!

Lawsy!

[eatcupcakes]

LOL!! I love your little happy guy Gator! Good for you Cupcake! I'm happy for you too!:beer:

I love that happy little Gator too. Thank you all for caring. It takes a load off our minds now that he has a job again. I wish the same for all the people out there losing jobs. I wish something good would happen for the Anthony's but I don't know what could make them smile right now except getting Caylee back and no one can do that unfortunatly.

Not related to this subject but Hubby and I went to see Benjamin Button today and it was very good. Tomorrow we are going to see Slum Dog Millioniar, I'll tell you how the compare, it anyone is interested.

[javahog]

I thought Hispanic was perfectly acceptable:

His·pan·ic (h-spnk) KEY

ADJECTIVE:

Of or relating to Spain or Spanish-speaking Latin America.
Of or relating to a Spanish-speaking people or culture.
NOUN:

A Spanish-speaking person.
A U.S. citizen or resident of Latin-American or Spanish descent.

I thought Xicano(a) meant Mexican specifically. That would leave out a lot of Hispanic folks, wouldn't it? My niece prefers Hispanic.

WTF can we say these days? Man, if I was hurling a racial epithet my victim would know it!

Welcome to California!

I was teaching an anthro class on American Cultures and this terminology firestorm broke out! I was shocked. I asked what to use for non-Xicanos (and do not spell it Chicano, btw!) as I always associated that with Mexico as well, and Latino was the choice it seemed. But "hispanic" was loathed by all as it sounds like "s**c", my students said...I don't even want to think about a term for my ex-boyfriend, an Argentine of Dutch descent.

[javahog]

Lawsy!

He chittered like a raccoon behind closed blinds while Moses spoke to him! I don't know what Moses had against ME.

[eatcupcakes]

Holy Moley Danagher you're making me want to eat and I'm not even hungry. Yesterday, I had take out from my favorite restaurant Louie and Maria's. I got a cheese stromobli to go to eat today. It's sitting in my refrigerator and now it's calling to me. I'm like my dad, time of day has no meaning when I'm craving something. Cold pizza is a great breakfast and Italian bread with butter and coffee can be a great dinner.:D

Gator

P.S. You cooks better be careful. I haven't been on vacation since I got Gator so that's 13 years. I always say when he goes, I'm going to make up for lost time and travel every month for a year. I may come visit all of you. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-talk002.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)


Gator are you Italian, because I am that is the way I like to eat. Cold Pizza for breakfast is one of my favorites and Italian bread, nice and crusty, with butter and a cup of coffee is heaven. My 92 year Papa lives with us and he has that every morning after his bowl of cheerioes.

You can come and eat with us anytime.

[javahog]

I bet Casey wishes she had this skill... http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,482506,00.html

[Gatordog]

Congrats for hubby on the job!!!! It has to have been scarey for him to not have one.

O/T (except that is the link) but, have the Obamas ever had a dog, ever wanted a dog? Is it a mandate somehow that to reside in the White House one has to have a dog? It just seems to me that they were in the financial position to already have a dog (and therefore bring their own to the White House) if they had wanted a dog. Now, maybe they DO want a dog, but what if they don't? What if they don't want even a cat? Anyway, it just seems rather odd that people (organizations) are sort of petitioning to the First Family to adopt pets, when that might not be on their agenda @ all.

The girls have been wanting a dog for years but the parents thought they were too young to properly take care of a dog. When they were getting close to the age, he started his presidential race and didn't think it would be right to get a puppy and then leave it alone that often. He promised the girls that when the race was over, they would get their puppy regardless if he won or lost. So they're getting their puppy which they have been promised for two years. The only stipulations are it has to be hypoallergic since Malia is allergic and Barack and Michelle both wanted a rescue dog and not a bought dog. What these people are petitioning for is the breed of dog to get, but the President wants a labradoodle or Portugese Waterdog (Ted Kennedy's dogs) to rescue.

Gator

[eatcupcakes]

Congrats to your hubby, eatcupcakes, on the job. The market is so tough right now, believe me, I know. Good news for me too, I was hired on Friday to work as the assistant to the president of a private investigator's office. I'm so excited, and this was the job I wanted so it's a win/win.:)
I'm really on the fence about George. One side of me says that yes, he's experiencing something so horrific in his life right now, maybe he felt that this was the only way to ease his pain. I don't see Cindy as the understanding and listening type of spouse (with all the separation and divorce news, maybe he didn't feel that he could talk to her). The other side of me says that he's harboring a secret and he would rather die than expose it. I think I'm gonna let this one play out.:shrug:

Congrats on the job. It should be very interesting. If you are thinking what I think you are, I don't think so but anything is possible it has crossed my mind as well. :shrug:

[Gatordog]

I must admit that I knew some of what she felt, having experienced 2 myself. I wonder if I would have had the insight to do that if I hadn't? But, it IS important to recognize EVERY loss as that: a LOSS.

(Don't go hitting me over the head w/a stick) but, I am not what you would call an animal lover, like so many of you are. I tolerate the pets my kids have, even help care for them, let them in out of the cold, let them out for calls of nature, see to it there is pet food in the house, etc. Even as a child, while I felt bad that a pet died, it was not quite the loss to me as to others. But, even then, it was important to let each person feel their own degree of loss. To many, many, many people, the loss of their pet is no less than the loss of a person. And others should respect that, even if they do not feel the same way.

Amy I have a lot of respect for you. You may not be an animal lover, but you respect them and treat them well. You're tops in my book!

Gator

[lorettalockhorn]

Welcome to California!

I was teaching an anthro class on American Cultures and this terminology firestorm broke out! I was shocked. I asked what to use for non-Xicanos (and do not spell it Chicano, btw!) as I always associated that with Mexico as well, and Latino was the choice it seemed. But "hispanic" was loathed by all as it sounds like "s**c", my students said...I don't even want to think about a term for my ex-boyfriend, an Argentine of Dutch descent.

I guess Latino(a) is good if you're from Latin America somewhere down the line! My Sainted Mother was bought off an orphan train, so I have no idea what half of me is. Maybe I'm Latina. But I look like a WASP. (Except for my waist. Not as wasp-waisted as I used to be. :hat: )

ETA: Should have said that when I use the term Hispanic, I'm usually thinking of the second adjectival meaning: Of or relating to a Spanish-speaking people or culture.

[Gatordog]

Congrats to your hubby, eatcupcakes, on the job. The market is so tough right now, believe me, I know. Good news for me too, I was hired on Friday to work as the assistant to the president of a private investigator's office. I'm so excited, and this was the job I wanted so it's a win/win.:)
I'm really on the fence about George. One side of me says that yes, he's experiencing something so horrific in his life right now, maybe he felt that this was the only way to ease his pain. I don't see Cindy as the understanding and listening type of spouse (with all the separation and divorce news, maybe he didn't feel that he could talk to her). The other side of me says that he's harboring a secret and he would rather die than expose it. I think I'm gonna let this one play out.:shrug:

Yeah! TheSkwerl's found a job too. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-happy093.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org) Good luck and congratulations.

Gator

[lorettalockhorn]

I bet Casey wishes she had this skill... http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,482506,00.html

Poor Casey, instead of transforming herself into a goat, the media has made her Zanny's scapegoat. LMAO

[Gatordog]

Congrats to your hubby. I really don't feel sorry for Cindy either. She comes off as unlikeable and even a lot of Casey's friends and Jesse even said that Cindy was unfriendly and wasn't pleasant to be around. I have always found George more likeable and feel sorry for him because based on their background it seems Cindy has abused him in a lot of ways throughout his marriage she pushed him to a business career that had ended badly and they moved to another state where he had to change careers. I agree George needs to be out of that house for awhile. I also feel sorry for the Anthonys in a way because it was mentioned on NG that neither George or Cindy's extended families are standing by them. I don't blame Cindy's brother Rick for not standing by her. I'm not sure if George or Cindy have friends supporting them. But maybe George with the help of the pastor can find somewhere else to stay.

It seems to me that it's basically by invitation only that you are allowed to support the Anthonys and that invitation means you must agree with them. They have to stand alone because Cindy just pushes everyone away if they question the lies.

Gator

[javahog]

Hooray for all the employment that is happening on the board!
:beer: I hope it is contagious for anyone else who's looking!

[javahog]

Poor Casey, instead of transforming herself into a goat, the media has made her Zanny's scapegoat. LMAO

Heehee...Zanny the Nannie (goat)

[browneyes106]

Welcome to California!

I was teaching an anthro class on American Cultures and this terminology firestorm broke out! I was shocked. I asked what to use for non-Xicanos (and do not spell it Chicano, btw!) as I always associated that with Mexico as well, and Latino was the choice it seemed. But "hispanic" was loathed by all as it sounds like "s**c", my students said...I don't even want to think about a term for my ex-boyfriend, an Argentine of Dutch descent.

There a lot of people in New Mexico who prefer the term Xicano and Chicano too. New Mexico is a difficult state to live when it comes to racial terms and there is always controversy here about a lot of things. I'm conservative so it's hard for me to use certain terms without being shouted at. New Mexico is also a state run byHispanic/Latino/Chicano race supremacy so it's pretty difficult for whites and consverative minorites to work in a lot of careers and jobs because often they say something that is considered wrong to others. So usually to be safe I say Hispanic or Latino and sometimes people get mad at me. In New Mexico a lot of people who are descendants of the Spanish conquistadors and it is sort of complicated to call them Xicano or Chicano. I agree it is complicated to classify a lot of people as a certain race.

[Gatordog]

Watching NG which is a repeat from the week. The Liar is telling her parents that Caylee "is the one THING I love more than anything". Thing? Like a car or ring or skirt? Thing not person. :no:

Gator

[lighthousedazy]

Hooray for all the employment that is happening on the board!
:beer: I hope it is contagious for anyone else who's looking!I will say hooray too and congratulations to the newly employed. Wish you all could send some good wishes and prayers for my son too. He is in school and was just laid off from his part time job. Thanks :)

[Gatordog]

Wow. I sure have a lot of catching up to do. I feel so bad for George but he is still in so much denial if he would still think that Casey has nothing to do with Caylee's death. That really bothers me. Has Cindy brainwashed him that much?

OT and on a personal note........the reason I am behind is that as of this past Wednesday I was informed that my department where I work has been "eliminated." After 21 years. "Gone. Goodbye. Seeya wouldn't wanna be ya." All three of us that made up our department have been "displaced". I started at this place when I was nineteen years old. It is all I have ever known. Hope my feline side allows me to land on my feet. I know many of you on this board have been through or have a spouse going through this. It is so hard.

Back to the topic at hand however, have there been any reports as to how GA is doing? Has Cindy been by his side?

And as for Jose BS..I hope the Bar Association fries him:flamemad:

I'm sorry Spider about your job. I'll pray you get another job soon.

Gator

[Gatordog]

I find it hard to believe for some reason that the hospital would have allowed Cindy to see George when she rushed to the hospital yesterday to be with him, but I am hopeful that they've talked her into having an evaluation herself.

Local news - I think it was myfoxorlando, stated that Lee was at the hospital early in the morning just after George got there.

Gator

[Gatordog]

The whole "no traits of a Hispanic" thing is stupid, imo, as there are no "traits" of "a Hispanic", but there is no resemblance between Caylee and Jesus O. He has very distinctive features, and something of him would appear...

Where I am, I have been told never to use the term "Hispanic" as that includes a racial epithet. Xicano/a is the suggested replacement, but what to use for people who are not Xicano?

You are in the West Coast where they use Latino which I guess those south of the border prefer. Here we use Hispanic which is what those from the Carribbean prefer.

Gator

[Gatordog]

Gator are you Italian, because I am that is the way I like to eat. Cold Pizza for breakfast is one of my favorites and Italian bread, nice and crusty, with butter and a cup of coffee is heaven. My 92 year Papa lives with us and he has that every morning after his bowl of cheerioes.

You can come and eat with us anytime.

Yes, my dad is Italian and my mom is from Puerto Rico. She considers herself Italian by choice She left PR at the age of 15 and married into an Italian family when she was 17 years old, over 61 years ago.

Gator

[Justice Denied?]

ITA with your thoughts cece. Interesting thought about the jewelry - its a control thing with Cindy. Maybe Cindy did it to make George feel guilty for letting Casey walk out of the house the very last time he saw Caylee. :shrug: Sorry but she strikes me as the type of person who would hold something like that over his head. JMO.

Welcome to CL cece~! :seeya:

Speaking of jewelry, what ever happened to the cross (or crosses) that Casey bought on Cindy's J C Penny credit card. Never heard any more about them after right at the first of the investigation.

[lighthousedazy]

Speaking of jewelry, what ever happened to the cross (or crosses) that Casey bought on Cindy's J C Penny credit card. Never heard any more about them after right at the first of the investigation.I wondered about that too, and wasn't it stated that casey was wearing rosary beads? Are they Catholic? I think the Catholic religion is the only one that uses the rosary beads.

[Justice Denied?]

George was acting normal yesterday IMO. The saddest thing I felt was when their lawyer said, "When ever anyone asks George how he is doing, he always says, 'I'm alright,' but he isn't alright." I can't imagine why he would want to continue living. I think he will do it again and succeed next time. If his wife needed him, or if she were kind and comforting, he might have a chance.
Cindy is very much like her daughter. It is all about "show" and appearance. She and George could have had a loving and caring relationship and definately helped eachother out during this but I don't think that is the case either. jmo[/QUOTE]

ITA and I think that was part of the reason for the suicide attempt. Gerge was saying to Cindy, "Look! Caylee may be gone nad Casey may be gone but I am still here and I need youlove and care. He has been kicked around so bad during this whole thing and probably before. Now I may be wrong nad he may be a leach and a sponge but there had to be something there for Cindy to allow him to come back.

I am glad Cindy is doing better, but I am a little resentful of the fact that George ends up in a mental hospital and all at once Cindy appears with her hair done and looking good. Sort of poor taste if you ask me.

[Justice Denied?]

I am so amazed at the things people say to those in grief! What's wrong with saying, "I'm sorry for your loss" ? I know people feel helpless when they face a mother who has lost a child and sometimes they don't mean to hurt you but they do, with their half baked philosophies about what they think God wanted. I forgive them that, but I dread them.

Grief is an entity shar. It takes you apart and puts you back together again in a different way. It gives you gifts and it takes away your complacency. You become more alert to life itself. You gain a new perspective about the pain of others. You learn to walk a new way along with other people who have been there. IMO

I am so sorry you had to go through that.

:rose: for another angel

Danager,

this was such a beautiful sentiment. It really touched my heart. Only those who have experienced deep personal grief can understand.

[lorettalockhorn]

Heehee...Zanny the Nannie (goat)

BWAAAAAAHAHAHA

(Or should I say Baaaaaaaaahhhhh)

[Justice Denied?]

LHD I am so glad to hear that. Other than one class on abnormal psych I did not learn a lot in 4 years. but I do agree with you and it is so maddening. as I said sometimes it has made me look stupid. I do not care any more now. i have worked with many schizophrenics and sociopaths and have had to testify in court a lot. I used to be an interviwer for lawyers to help decide on a persons sanity. yea I was cheap but after 15 years you just get a gut feeling. anyways lhd enough of me. Casey absolutely has no idea of what she did and how it is effecting her family friends and the world. I can not imagine not having those feelings but she does not and I have seen it before. very sickening too. makes you feel cold inside. not much different that a serial killer actually but he is into the control thing too. she just has no morals.....................sara IMO

Thanks so much for describing a feeling I have been feeling since I heard about the sticker on the duct tape and about George being in the hospital. I too feel cold inside. I just could not find a way to describe it. It goes way beyond sad.

[lorettalockhorn]

I wondered about that too, and wasn't it stated that casey was wearing rosary beads? Are they Catholic? I think the Catholic religion is the only one that uses the rosary beads.

Catholics use the rosary, but many religions use prayer beads; they are a counting device. I don't think it's considered sacrilegious for Catholics to wear their beads, but not sure what The Church has to say about non-Catholics wearing it/them.

[Justice Denied?]

Why did you post that, now I want them. I want all of them. If I only had a farm or lots and lots of acerage but I don't so I guess I have to satisfied with the 3 spoiled dogs I have and the one cat. Good news, hubby got a job yesterday, Yahoo.

As far as the Anthony's go I hope this will wake Cindy up and make her realize she needs to be more aware of George and his needs. It was reported that she asked him to pick out jewelry for Caylee to wear for her burial and that might have send him over the edge. I personally think he had what we use to call a nervous breakdown. I think he needs to be out of that house for awhile at least. To many memories there.

I know Cindy must be going through her own hell but she seems much stronger than George. For some reason I just can't feel really sorry for her. I wish I could but I can't. Does anyone else feel the same as me.

Cupcake,

I am so happy for you that hubby got a job. Financial problems can put a strain on the best relationships.

I agree with you in some ways about Cindy. She did raise Casey and was probably wat too indulgent. But I do feel sorry for her because she lost her daughter and her granddaughter. It must be hard to know your baby that you loved and nurtured has taken the life of your grandchild. You have to have some empathy for that.

[Justice Denied?]

Thank you Sara. :)

When I am feeling like a piece of my heart is missing, I read Desiderata.It covers everything in life. I have it on my fridge. When my kids are sad, I read it to them. "It is still a beautiful world"



-- written by Max Ehrmann in the 1920s --
Not "Found in Old St. Paul's Church"! -- see below

Go placidly amid the noise and the haste,
and remember what peace there may be in silence.

As far as possible, without surrender,
be on good terms with all persons.
Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
and listen to others,
even to the dull and the ignorant;
they too have their story.
Avoid loud and aggressive persons;
they are vexatious to the spirit.

If you compare yourself with others,
you may become vain or bitter,
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.
Keep interested in your own career, however humble;
it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.

Exercise caution in your business affairs,
for the world is full of trickery.
But let this not blind you to what virtue there is;
many persons strive for high ideals,
and everywhere life is full of heroism.
Be yourself. Especially do not feign affection.
Neither be cynical about love,
for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment,
it is as perennial as the grass.

Take kindly the counsel of the years,
gracefully surrendering the things of youth.
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune.
But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings.
Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.

Beyond a wholesome discipline,
be gentle with yourself.
You are a child of the universe
no less than the trees and the stars;
you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you,
no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God,
whatever you conceive Him to be.
And whatever your labors and aspirations,
in the noisy confusion of life,
keep peace in your soul.


With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams,
it is still a beautiful world.
Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.

Thank you again, my dear. I needed to read these words tonight.:rose::rose:

[Amy]

Obama promised his daughters a dog since they wanted one as a way to make uo for the stress of the election (he promised last year). I guess no dog before because one of them is allergic, but they are looking for a hypoallergenic dog...but that's why the adoption agenda, rather than a breeder. I say, go to a breeder if you need a specific mix the girl isn't allergic to! Special circumstance!

Thanks.

[Amy]

RENT???? What's that?? I got higher electric, gas, and food bills. I never got rent. My family members can't spell rent. They ate well though.
There is no part of me that would take in another leech. I earned everything I have and never asked anyone for one crumb from their table. My family hates what I have even when I share it. It was hard earned. For several years after a divorce, when I was out of business, I cleaned other peoples houses to feed my kids. (That included their toilets) I got back on my feet and remarried 7 years later became sucessful and they were at my door. Poppa was also very generous to them and they still have a mouthful of venom to spew. Screw that noise, I say! :)

I didn't want to say moochers, so I said renters. Nephew paid...some. Sis cleaned my house and landscaped my yard. My niece--she was in school, no rent as long as she went to school. I quit buying groceries when I found she was feeding her mooching b/f. Didn't bother them too much, they cleaned out the cupboards and fridge--got rid of all the old stuff and I didn't have to do the work, lol!!! The kids' niece and DD b/f said they would clean the house for rent (b/f pays $100 every 2 weeks besides) The kids' niece DID do some housework, cleaned carpets, but not consistent. The b/f--hasn't started on the house, altho he told DD he could clean it in one day!!! HEY!!! One day has come and gone, lol!!!!

If the people I tried to help are spewing anything, no one has told me. Except the kids' niece--like I said, bad, bad, bad news. Her family knows that whatever she says is a lie, so I don't worry too much what she would say. Hopefully she is over it and doesn't mention me @ all!!!!

[Amy]

Wow. I sure have a lot of catching up to do. I feel so bad for George but he is still in so much denial if he would still think that Casey has nothing to do with Caylee's death. That really bothers me. Has Cindy brainwashed him that much?

OT and on a personal note........the reason I am behind is that as of this past Wednesday I was informed that my department where I work has been "eliminated." After 21 years. "Gone. Goodbye. Seeya wouldn't wanna be ya." All three of us that made up our department have been "displaced". I started at this place when I was nineteen years old. It is all I have ever known. Hope my feline side allows me to land on my feet. I know many of you on this board have been through or have a spouse going through this. It is so hard.

Back to the topic at hand however, have there been any reports as to how GA is doing? Has Cindy been by his side?

And as for Jose BS..I hope the Bar Association fries him:flamemad:

Sorry about the job, Spyder. Hope you find something better, soon. @ my place of work, some departments have downsized, mostly staff just isn't being replaced when they resign. Our department MIGHT be on the to-go-list, but so far I can be used in the other areas. But, being long term, older than anyone else, I do believe I will be the first to go if they decide to go that way.

I haven't seen reports about how George is doing, except either Chief Chitwood or Brad Conway (I think) tho't he would be out in a couple of days. Cindy went there, some posters mentioned a vigil in the waiting room, don't know for sure about that. It seems Lee went there immediately. But, their going there does not mean that they would be allowed to see him right away. Nothing was said either way on that, but usually admits to a psych hospital means no visitors @ first.

[Native Alien]

Hello to everyone. I have been keeping up with what is going on with the disappearance and the case against Casey via this site and these threads.

I have one point that I really would like to bring into the discussion if noone minds. It is about the area where Caylee's body was found.

This is just a little something that came up in a conversation I had with a friend's mother a couple of days ago. We both grew up in Central Florida, between Tampa and Plant City. If I don't explain it in a way that makes sense to you please feel free to ask questions to clarify.

The area where Caylee's body was found is what we used to call a bayhead, meaning that if there were alot of rain or storm surge the area would flood easily and then would be a long time draining. Usually they are also areas that stay somewhat damp and usually have various sized ponds in them.

As kids growing up we were always warned to stay out of the bayheads, especially during the summer months because the gators would use them to lay in to stay cool during the day.

Now what got me to thinking of this is as I said, I was talking to a friend's mother about someone else that we went to high school with. She had a brother that was a real jerk. I had made the statement back then that, "Someone should drop kick his ass into the nearest bayhead and leave him for gator bait." Granted this was many years ago and we have lost track of him, but in the remembering of the incident that caused me to react with that statement my friend's mother stopped me.

She then said to me, "Surely you don't think that is what that woman had in mind for that child do you?" I asked what she meant and she told me to think about it. After a bit she said this to me. " If that mother were under the impression that she wouldn't get caught if they couldn't find a body, what better way to assure that they don't find the body than to put it somewhere that a gator will find it." Which is true.

Anyway it was just a thought that went thru our heads as we were talking about it all. I went back and looked at the pictures from the scene where the body was found and I also looked at the video that the one psychic did and the area sure does fit the description of a bayhead if you ask me.

[Amy]

The whole "no traits of a Hispanic" thing is stupid, imo, as there are no "traits" of "a Hispanic", but there is no resemblance between Caylee and Jesus O. He has very distinctive features, and something of him would appear...

Where I am, I have been told never to use the term "Hispanic" as that includes a racial epithet. Xicano/a is the suggested replacement, but what to use for people who are not Xicano?

It's hard to be politically correct about what to call people--this person is offended by one term, another person is offended by the term the first person says is correct--and not just the Hispanic issue (for some reason, that is what is used here, no one has gotten angry w/me, @ least that I was told) but by other races, nationalities, etc.

Just like someone of Hispanic descent does not "look" like what most think a Hispanic would look like, neither does one's "distinctive features" necessarily show up in each or any of one's children. Like on Judge Hatchet, the fellow says can't be HIS baby, cuz the baby's ears aren't shaped like his and all his other kids' ears are. Come to find out, the DNA test comes in, and the baby is his. There are certainly children that take after EITHER the mother's or the dad's family. That happened on Judge Hatchet, too. The possible baby daddy's mom says she thinks the baby's dad is the mom's brother, because he looks like the brother. Well, if the mom looks like her brother, yes, if the baby takes after the mother's side of the family, the baby may look like the uncle. Oh, and THAT case? The possible baby daddy WAS the daddy, when the DNA come in.

Personally, I think Caylee looks a whole lot like Cindy. Could be that Caylee took after Casey's side of the family, and has no features that come from her daddy's side.

[Amy]

It's possible but I think he was at his rope's end and just crying for help. Could have made Cindy see reality, but I don't think casey ever would. jmo

He told reporters earlier (I'm thinking when they were talking about the kiosk being moved the last time) that he had considered suicide after all this started. So, I don't think he just up and tho't of it that day, maybe even had still tho't about it every day.

[Amy]

Welcome to California!

I was teaching an anthro class on American Cultures and this terminology firestorm broke out! I was shocked. I asked what to use for non-Xicanos (and do not spell it Chicano, btw!) as I always associated that with Mexico as well, and Latino was the choice it seemed. But "hispanic" was loathed by all as it sounds like "s**c", my students said...I don't even want to think about a term for my ex-boyfriend, an Argentine of Dutch descent.

What is "s**c"? (PM me, since it seems it would not be allowed on the boards.) TIA

Hispanic is widely used here, have not been anyone clocked for saying it, that I know of. Another term used is Mexican-American, which is true of some, not so true of others. Mexican is what we say for those we know are from Mexico, and are not US citizens.

[lighthousedazy]

He told reporters earlier (I'm thinking when they were talking about the kiosk being moved the last time) that he had considered suicide after all this started. So, I don't think he just up and tho't of it that day, maybe even had still tho't about it every day.I agree and I don't know what this poor man thought. If I were in his shoes, I can't imagine what I would do, at all. :(

[lighthousedazy]

Hello to everyone. I have been keeping up with what is going on with the disappearance and the case against Casey via this site and these threads.

I have one point that I really would like to bring into the discussion if noone minds. It is about the area where Caylee's body was found.

This is just a little something that came up in a conversation I had with a friend's mother a couple of days ago. We both grew up in Central Florida, between Tampa and Plant City. If I don't explain it in a way that makes sense to you please feel free to ask questions to clarify.

The area where Caylee's body was found is what we used to call a bayhead, meaning that if there were alot of rain or storm surge the area would flood easily and then would be a long time draining. Usually they are also areas that stay somewhat damp and usually have various sized ponds in them.

As kids growing up we were always warned to stay out of the bayheads, especially during the summer months because the gators would use them to lay in to stay cool during the day.

Now what got me to thinking of this is as I said, I was talking to a friend's mother about someone else that we went to high school with. She had a brother that was a real jerk. I had made the statement back then that, "Someone should drop kick his ass into the nearest bayhead and leave him for gator bait." Granted this was many years ago and we have lost track of him, but in the remembering of the incident that caused me to react with that statement my friend's mother stopped me.

She then said to me, "Surely you don't think that is what that woman had in mind for that child do you?" I asked what she meant and she told me to think about it. After a bit she said this to me. " If that mother were under the impression that she wouldn't get caught if they couldn't find a body, what better way to assure that they don't find the body than to put it somewhere that a gator will find it." Which is true.

Anyway it was just a thought that went thru our heads as we were talking about it all. I went back and looked at the pictures from the scene where the body was found and I also looked at the video that the one psychic did and the area sure does fit the description of a bayhead if you ask me.Welcome, Native alien. You have a good point there. I grew up in central Georgia, and there are some swampy areas there too. The gators are all over Florida and South Georgia and have even made it up above Macon, Ga, (the Echeeconne swamp and Olcmugee River area.) I have been following the Tara Grinstead case for 3 years also, the missing teacher and beauty queen from Ocilla Ga. Some think she may have been disposed in the Okefenokee area where gators are plentiful. :( The Caylee case is so sad and I hope that justice is served. :rose:

[Amy]

I wondered about that too, and wasn't it stated that casey was wearing rosary beads? Are they Catholic? I think the Catholic religion is the only one that uses the rosary beads.

The discussion @ the time is that they are not. Can't remember what religion the preacher was who went to see Casey and I think had been w/George and Cindy @ some points.

It seems the rosary was sent to Casey, don't know if the sender was a Catholic or not. Other discussion was about Casey wearing the rosary as a necklace, and there were those who said that was not unheard of.

[Native Alien]

The discussion @ the time is that they are not. Can't remember what religion the preacher was who went to see Casey and I think had been w/George and Cindy @ some points.

It seems the rosary was sent to Casey, don't know if the sender was a Catholic or not. Other discussion was about Casey wearing the rosary as a necklace, and there were those who said that was not unheard of.

I would have to go back and look at the pictures again but I seem to remember her wearing a rosary as a necklace. But that isn't something that most Catholics would do. It could be that the person sending them was Catholic.

[Native Alien]

Welcome, Native alien. You have a good point there. I grew up in central Georgia, and there are some swampy areas there too. The gators are all over Florida and South Georgia and have even made it up above Macon, Ga, (the Echeeconne swamp and Olcmugee River area.) I have been following the Tara Grinstead case for 3 years also, the missing teacher and beauty queen from Ocilla Ga. Some think she may have been disposed in the Okefenokee area where gators are plentiful. :( The Caylee case is so sad and I hope that justice is served. :rose:

Thanks for the welcome and I have to agree that it is just sad. I have two adult daughters that are now in college and one of them asked me the other day if there was ever a time that I even had the thought of killing one of them or myself cross my mind. I actually had to think that one over because while there were days that they were definitely trying my patience, I don't remember ever having that thought cross my mind.

[Amy]

Hello to everyone. I have been keeping up with what is going on with the disappearance and the case against Casey via this site and these threads.

I have one point that I really would like to bring into the discussion if noone minds. It is about the area where Caylee's body was found.

This is just a little something that came up in a conversation I had with a friend's mother a couple of days ago. We both grew up in Central Florida, between Tampa and Plant City. If I don't explain it in a way that makes sense to you please feel free to ask questions to clarify.

The area where Caylee's body was found is what we used to call a bayhead, meaning that if there were alot of rain or storm surge the area would flood easily and then would be a long time draining. Usually they are also areas that stay somewhat damp and usually have various sized ponds in them.

As kids growing up we were always warned to stay out of the bayheads, especially during the summer months because the gators would use them to lay in to stay cool during the day.

Now what got me to thinking of this is as I said, I was talking to a friend's mother about someone else that we went to high school with. She had a brother that was a real jerk. I had made the statement back then that, "Someone should drop kick his ass into the nearest bayhead and leave him for gator bait." Granted this was many years ago and we have lost track of him, but in the remembering of the incident that caused me to react with that statement my friend's mother stopped me.

She then said to me, "Surely you don't think that is what that woman had in mind for that child do you?" I asked what she meant and she told me to think about it. After a bit she said this to me. " If that mother were under the impression that she wouldn't get caught if they couldn't find a body, what better way to assure that they don't find the body than to put it somewhere that a gator will find it." Which is true.

Anyway it was just a thought that went thru our heads as we were talking about it all. I went back and looked at the pictures from the scene where the body was found and I also looked at the video that the one psychic did and the area sure does fit the description of a bayhead if you ask me.

More than one poster expressed this concern, on this and other boards. When it looked like Caylee would never be found, that is what many feared--that Caylee was put someplace where she would never be found because of gators. There was water there, for sure, even before the tropical storm hit, according to the meter reader's description. So, it might just be bad luck on Casey's part that there were no gaters there. On the other hand, if this WAS an area they hung out in as kids, it might be one area where the gators aren't known to go.

Could be that Casey EXPECTED gators to come up, and that would be why she was so sure Caylee's body would not be found.

[Native Alien]

More than one poster expressed this concern, on this and other boards. When it looked like Caylee would never be found, that is what many feared--that Caylee was put someplace where she would never be found because of gators. There was water there, for sure, even before the tropical storm hit, according to the meter reader's description. So, it might just be bad luck on Casey's part that there were no gaters there. On the other hand, if this WAS an area they hung out in as kids, it might be one area where the gators aren't known to go.

I would think in either case it shows forethought on where the body was placed.

[Amy]

I would have to go back and look at the pictures again but I seem to remember her wearing a rosary as a necklace. But that isn't something that most Catholics would do. It could be that the person sending them was Catholic.

Sorry I wasn't clear. Casey was wearing the rosary as a necklace. That bothered some people, but others posted that it is not unheard of that someone would wear the rosary as jewelry. Not common, for sure, tho.

[Amy]

I would think in either case it shows forethought on where the body was placed.

I tried to edit, and it wouldn't let me. I was also thinking, maybe Casey tho't the gators WOULD come to that area. She acted like she was pretty darn sure Caylee's body wouldn't be found. I wonder, speaking of her statements, about the clothes. Why would she think the clothes would never be found? I don't think the gators eat clothes? I mean, if there were clothes nearby that were not on the body, would they eat those?