Caylee Anthony Case Discussion Only

[deputydi]

If so they are violating the law. Discovery has begun. The state cannot use evidence not given to defendant's counsel, AND may not hold back exculpatory evidence.
True, but does it have to be released to the public? I still think there is evidence that may have been turned over to the defense but WE don't know what it is -- yet.

I like the way the Orlando PD has handled themselves. They seem to be dotting all the i's and crossing their t's and I believe they had most of what they needed when they charged Casey with 1st degree. They are very well aware there is no "do over" for them.

[lorettalockhorn]

Florida law dictates discovery asap. Other states may say at least 10 days prior to trial...Not sure what the cutoff time is for FL. It Must be made available for depositions etc. early on.

New York discovery in criminal cases is totally different...discovery is considered a 'gift'..It's acceptable and legal to withhold most of the critical evidence..Prior to, until the moment of, and even in the middle of trial discovery can come in! (unless it's a civil case involving $ ~ then it's like FL)

Hey, I never said they weren't going to to give them the discovery they don't have yet. The info put out to the public maybe had been made available to defense about the same time. Maybe that's why Baez had his undies in a bunch about how and when Casey was told about the bones being caylee's..he found out about the same time! :confused:

All the public information was published according to the Sunshine Law if I'm understanding correctly. Just wonder when that magic cutoff date was; haven't seen it published anywhere. Haven't seen anything in the media about the fact that no more information will be available because discovery has begun. When did it begin?

AR has discovery. I thought every state does. But AR has no such thing as a Sunshine Law, and gag orders are more common than not.

[lorettalockhorn]

Agree of course regarding the responsibility belonging to Casey. I need your take on the definition of "Red Herring" I'm not sure I know what that is. I need to double check that.

A red herring is something that draws attention away from what is important or integral. I'm just saying that maybe Casey was driving around using the cellphone everywhere except where Caylee was dumped knowing fully well that the pings would be analyzed.

[lorettalockhorn]

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Rule 3.220, F.R.Crim.P. governs discovery (some states use the term disclosure) in criminal cases. Both sides are under a CONTINUING obligation to supplement discovery after the Defendant first gives notice of the intent to participate. (The Defendant can hide their evidence only by not asking the state for theirs.) The Defendant asked for discovery October 15, 2008.

The state has 15 days to send the initial document(s), the Defendant then has 15 days to send reciprocal discovery. I've read of defendants trying to get around reciprocal discovery by sending public record requests under Chapter 119, but the rule says that also acts as a request & requires the defense to turn over what they have. Usually it is a list of the subparts of the rule with some documents attached.

The Sunshine Law applies to government records and anybody can request things pursuant thereto. BUT, a reasonable copying charge may be imposed. That is NOT SO WITH DISCOVERY in criminal cases, though requests for electronic evidence may require the other side to provide cd's/tapes, etc.

TECHNICALLY, information given to the public must be repeated in a document from one side to the other; I've been involved in cases though where one party says "We didn't send this because it is public record, we figured they had it already".


Discovery should either be complete by pretrial (that includes depos) or planned & near enough to completion to explain it to the court. Continuances are often needed to complete discovery, mainly depositions.


I'm gonna sum it up now, I swear: if you are gonna use it at trial, you gotta let the other side know. What THEY make of it ain't your problem.

Yes, we know about discovery. And we know about FL's Sunshine Law. When did the Sunshine Law go out of effect here? Haven't read that it won't be available anymore. When was the magic cutoff date?

[Peachallie]

True, but does it have to be released to the public? I still think there is evidence that may have been turned over to the defense but WE don't know what it is -- yet.
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Sure. There most probably IS. The defense may not want to release damaging evidence to keep up the (vain) attempt at getting sympathy for Casey Anthony. As I sit here printing, PAGE BY UNNUMBERED PAGE a 1891 page set of appraisals & property info for my irritable half, I was thinking: what could the defense offer in mitigation of sentence? Her tireless efforts on behalf of worthy charities? NO. Sterling employment record? Again, NO. Led to crime for pecuniary gain to help support her family? OBVIOUSLY NOT.


I cannot think of anything in mitigation here. Casey Anthony is a healthy 22 years old who brought a child into the world (and though I've read she didn't have an abortion due to her parents' beliefs, it might have been because it gave her an excuse to continue being supported by them.) and exists as a leech on society. Why NOT put her in prison for decades? Society loses nothing by her removal.

***************************************

I like the way the Orlando PD has handled themselves. They seem to be dotting all the i's and crossing their t's and I believe they had most of what they needed when they charged Casey with 1st degree. They are very well aware there is no "do over" for them.
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As long as they do not try to resuscitate the death penalty the S.A. should be secure; when I understood some posts to indicate they were considering reinstating the request I thought they were wobbly. But the docket sheets do not reflect anything but a coherent progression. (I gather you meant State Attorney instead Public Defender by the use of PD.)

[SaraSidle]

Interesting that LP says he is not on the witness list, but that he is confident that they will HAVE to call him, because of the relationship he had w/the A's, he was in their house, etc etc etc, has some conversations (what? IIRC, all his conversation w/Casey was for her to order him out of the house!) And then he listed Rob Dick, Tracey the body guard and more than 5 others. Wonder if he meant ALL of them should be called, or just him cuz he's the top dog in his company?

you go girl

[SaraSidle]

Yes I was watching George too. He has a blinking problem and I noticed Casey seems to emulate him. She raises her eyebrows a lot and also makes her boredom with the questions obvious. Her voice inflections are hers alone though, me thinks. The best part is when she says yes and shakes her head no. I think a 10 year old would know she's lying. Again, I felt the parents were in a terrible vice and she had the turnkey. (AND she was enjoying it. She felt so damn important!) IMO

ITA danagher

[SaraSidle]

Yes, we know about discovery. And we know about FL's Sunshine Law. When did the Sunshine Law go out of effect here? Haven't read that it won't be available anymore. When was the magic cutoff date?

loretta I am so glad you are here!!!!!!!!!!!!

[javahog]

I have a dumb newbie question: why are there green and grey dots after our names? Sometimes mine is green and sometimes it is grey...tia

[Peachallie]

I am glad I read your post before I commented. My thoughts are the same as yours. Dead bodies do not vomit. Therefore, the logical conclusion would be if vomitus is found, Caylee was alive when the tape was put over her mouth.

As for the mouth/insect theory, that sounds to me like a defense explanation that is simply preposterous.

From an emotional standpoint, I think we ALL would like to see the dp charged. Although I do believe the pros can get a 1st degree conviction, proving the elements necessary for the dp may be a little more difficult. My hope is they let the jury decide. After weighing all the evidence, they may return with a recommendation of life anyway and that would be just fine. I just want them to have the option.

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No, I do not see this as a death case. And trying for death & the jury rejecting it can hinder other attempts to get death sentences. Why then would anyone need to put duct tape on the mouth of a child to be killed? This isn't a long involved procedure. The victim probably weighed from 29-30lbs. What purpose could duct tape have served, unless she were kidnapped & killed after abduction? And yes, as maggots were found in the car trunk where the child was believed to be, duct tape over the mouth makes sense. Remember, the theory is she was moved several times. Fluids dripping or insects multiplying would increase the chances of detection. I did not indicate it was a kindness on Casey Anthony's part, rather a convenience that helped keep the body around prior to disposal.

[lorettalockhorn]

loretta I am so glad you are here!!!!!!!!!!!!

Aww Thanks! It's my home away from home! We're glad you're back too. Safe and sound. :seeya:

I have a dumb newbie question: why are there green and grey dots after our names? Sometimes mine is green and sometimes it is grey...tia

The green dot represents online status. The gray dot represents either offline or invisible status.

Not a dumb question! But I've got one. How do we get to that message place that's off the board?? :confused:

[javahog]

I wonder how long she was (allegedly) driving around in that car with the body? You'd think even in the clubs she went to it would be hard to get any action with the smell of Corpse Potion #9 clinging to your hair...

[Grave Chaser]

Just thinking out loud here but.......

If you're going to put tape across ANYONES mouth just so they can't be heard when they woke up, aren't you going to bind the hands/arms to keep the person from ripping the tape off when they wake up? I wonder in what condition the tape was in? It would seem to me that there would be 'claw' marks, dents or folds from Caylee trying to take it off if she was still alive.

[One2Snoop]

Aww Thanks! It's my home away from home! We're glad you're back too. Safe and sound. :seeya:



The green dot represents online status. The gray dot represents either offline or invisible status.

Not a dumb question! But I've got one. How do we get to that message place that's off the board?? :confused:

What message place? :confused:

[lorettalockhorn]

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No, I do not see this as a death case. And trying for death & the jury rejecting it can hinder other attempts to get death sentences. Why then would anyone need to put duct tape on the mouth of a child to be killed? This isn't a long involved procedure. The victim probably weighed from 29-30lbs. What purpose could duct tape have served, unless she were kidnapped & killed after abduction? And yes, as maggots were found in the car trunk where the child was believed to be, duct tape over the mouth makes sense. Remember, the theory is she was moved several times. Fluids dripping or insects multiplying would increase the chances of detection. I did not indicate it was a kindness on Casey Anthony's part, rather a convenience that helped keep the body around prior to disposal.

I'm on the record for wanting the jury to have the option of the death penalty too, for what it's worth.

Just wondering why it's so difficult to understand that Casey could have used the duct tape to stage a kidnapping/murder?

ETA I read somewhere (The Caylee is missing site maybe) that Caylee weighed 45 pounds. That seems like an awful lot, but that's what I read.

[One2Snoop]

Just thinking out loud here but.......

If you're going to put tape across ANYONES mouth just so they can't be heard when they woke up, aren't you going to bind the hands/arms to keep the person from ripping the tape off when they wake up? I wonder in what condition the tape was in? It would seem to me that there would be 'claw' marks, dents or folds from Caylee trying to take it off if she was still alive.

Would Caylee be strong enough to take it off. I don't think she was ever aware of it - IMO Casey used the chloroform - tape across the mouth and Caylee died shortly thereafter.

JMO

[Peachallie]

Yes, we know about discovery. And we know about FL's Sunshine Law. When did the Sunshine Law go out of effect here? Haven't read that it won't be available anymore. When was the magic cutoff date?
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The "sunshine law" (ch. 286) is still in effect. It deals with governmental bodies; the Florida Rules Of Criminal Procedure address criminal cases. I've seen Ch.119 and possibly 286 used to try to get documents & things from criminal cases but always after the case was concluded.

[lorettalockhorn]

What message place? :confused:

The place where I left you the message that I was going out of town the other day. I can't figure out how to get there on purpose.

[Grave Chaser]

Would Caylee be strong enough to take it off. I don't think she was ever aware of it - IMO Casey used the chloroform - tape across the mouth and Caylee died shortly thereafter.

JMO

If you are correct, then why put tape across the mouth at all? Just as a precaution in case Casey didn't give her enough chloroform to kill her the first time?

[lorettalockhorn]

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The "sunshine law" (ch. 286) is still in effect. It deals with governmental bodies; the Florida Rules Of Criminal Procedure address criminal cases. I've seen Ch.119 and possibly 286 used to try to get documents & things from criminal cases but always after the case was concluded.

Okay, that would explain why the media isn't whining about not being able to get hold of more information until the trial. I was referring to your afternoon post about The State being in violation of the law because discovery has begun. I was probably being incoherent.

[javahog]

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No, I do not see this as a death case. And trying for death & the jury rejecting it can hinder other attempts to get death sentences. Why then would anyone need to put duct tape on the mouth of a child to be killed? This isn't a long involved procedure. The victim probably weighed from 29-30lbs. What purpose could duct tape have served, unless she were kidnapped & killed after abduction? And yes, as maggots were found in the car trunk where the child was believed to be, duct tape over the mouth makes sense. Remember, the theory is she was moved several times. Fluids dripping or insects multiplying would increase the chances of detection. I did not indicate it was a kindness on Casey Anthony's part, rather a convenience that helped keep the body around prior to disposal.

And why would overreaching in this case endanger others? Its not like it would be the same group of jurors, saying, remember that Anthony case!

And sorry, but duct tape over the mouth to keep maggots at bay just makes no sense to me. There are at least 8 other orifices to consider and decomp makes more of them as it does its work. And the fluids don't just leak out of the orifices, it comes from just, everywhere. That's why the Egyptians had to literally bury the entire body in a pile of natron to dry it out, and not just put a little tidy bit at each opening...

[One2Snoop]

The place where I left you the message that I was going out of town the other day. I can't figure out how to get there on purpose.

Click on any nic and select public profile.

[lorettalockhorn]

Click on any nic and select public profile.

K, gonna do it right now!

[Amy]

Doing research on kiomarie Cruz. . . can't believe I'm reading the National Enquirer (lol):



http://www.nationalenquirer.com/i_could_have_saved_caylee_anthony_casy_anthony_bes t_friend_/celebrity/65924

See link for full article.

The Enquirer must have missed information from Uncle Rick (he probably declined to be interviewed) in the message boards where he says, WAY back when, that the reason Casey hid her pregnancy from her parents was because she planned on giving the baby up for adoption. He did not go into detail about her already having an adoptive mom picked out, but that doesn't mean she hadn't.

I did have to chuckle when I read the part about Caylee honoring KioMarie by giving Caylee the middle name of Marie. Now, she MIGHT have been doing this "for" KioMarie, but I do notice that Casey's middle name also is Marie, and I wonder what Cindy's middle name is?

[javahog]

Later, all! I am ordered to acquire large quantities of incredibly unhealthy fast food for the husband....KFC, here I come :chicken:

[Amy]

:D enjoy dinner!

I wonder if we will get more detailed info about Casey's web searches prior to trial. I can picture her running into decomp info in between "missing children" and "household objects as weapons"...

Just curious, I think I've seen a pattern of judgments on her moral compass, but what do you all think of Casey's intelligence? I lean toward "not too bright but thinks she is"...

I do believe that in one of the on-the-run interviews w/Cindy, Cindy said that Casey is quite intelligent, and that Casey was giving "good advice" to her attorney, Jose Baez. Maybe that is why Mr Baez seems less than.....uhmmm, should I say, well-versed in law-type things? Because he is following the "good advice" of his client who certainly does not have a law degree?

[lighthousedazy]

Thanks loretta.

I noticed how often Casey tried to digress when the police had her in the side room at Universal and how many times they got her at the pass and blocked her. Every time I hear her speak and see how confident she is when she answers questions, it scares the hell out of me. I was trying so hard to listen to a sound or a word that was telling us she was lying but I couldn't. I think she'd pass a lie detector test.She probably could pass a lie detector test since she never tells the truth. lol In my opinion from listening to body language experts, the lack of eye contact, the raising of the eye brows, and possibly different tones in speech are some ways to tell if someone is lying. I have tested the eye brow raising on one of my kids, and it works every time. ;) I don't know about LDTs but don't they work on pulse and breathing rates? For someone that is so comfortable with not telling the truth and has no conscience, her pulse and respiration would probably not change. jmo

[POE-33]

I haven't been following the case as closely as some of you have.
Has LE ever officially confirmed that there was duct tape around the face of the skull.

There have been a lot of unconfirmed rumors circulating about the case.
Sometimes the talking heads on TV discuss the rumor as if it's a fact and even debate back and forth about it for twenty minutes.
:confused:

[Justice Denied?]

So sad to know that it was this particular book. The video of Caylee reading it is one of the most endearing that we've seen.

I know that sounds ridiculous, but humor an old lady. It's all sad beyond understanding.

I, too, am an old lady and I feel exactly the same way. This touched me more strongly than the "You are My Sunshine tapes. Don't know why. I think it has sonething to do with cuddling up with your child and reading bedtime stories. Why did Casey throw her book away? I just don't understand?

[Peachallie]

I'm on the record for wanting the jury to have the option of the death penalty too, for what it's worth.

Just wondering why it's so difficult to understand that Casey could have used the duct tape to stage a kidnapping/murder?

ETA I read somewhere (The Caylee is missing site maybe) that Caylee weighed 45 pounds. That seems like an awful lot, but that's what I read.

*******************************************
IF the state can prove she used duct tape to stage a kidnapping (for WHOM though, she wasn't exhibiting the body) then death has probably gotta be an option. An attempt to keep bodily fluids from leaking onto the carpet makes more sense, that would increase the smell. Both of course are heinous acts & I do not see any statutory mitigating factors leaping out either.

And, on an earlier post you wrote your feelings were ridiculous; my response was meant to mean that your feelings are not. This case is horribly confounding, how could she be out dancing if she knew her child had just died?

[Amy]

Good post!

I am a little unsure of the story about George wanting something from the trunk. You said that happened on the 28th? How did she get the bag (if it was there) out of the trunk and into the woods 15 houses away without her father seeing anything? What was the date Cindy found Casey? (Sorry I am drawing a blank)

I fell asleep before the ball dropped. Old age :confused: Is it really 2009? If a tree fell in the forest and no one was there, did it make a sound?
I'm also hungry and I'm frying sticky potatoes as we speak. :beer:

It had been reported (and on some timelines) where George was wanting widget or something he needed to work on a car, on the 24th. And there have been several stories about that. The first one I recall George saying was that Casey didn't let him get close to the car, and produced the "stolen" gas cans, I think George intimating that the gas cans were what Casey didn't want him to see. Later, he does say (I think on GMA? where he says he DID get into the trunk (for the widget?) and HE took the gas cans out. Don't know which story is the truth, or has the most truth. But, one fact about both stories was that it occured on the 24th.

[lorettalockhorn]

It's not difficult for me to understand! If there was a kidnapping soap opera in the making, then that fits. But I got the impression she just wrapped her mouth up in tape to keep her quiet and really didn't care if she died or not. Accident or not, she didn't give a fiddler's F8ck what happened to Caylee, she was simply in the way and she was Cindy's pet, so she treated her like swill. She didn't care, still doesn't, never will, and did I mention that she didn't care?

Here she is in all her despicable glory. Not fcaring that her daughter is decaying in The Zone:

http://i36.tinypic.com/2yuhg7k.jpg

[lorettalockhorn]

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IF the state can prove she used duct tape to stage a kidnapping (for WHOM though, she wasn't exhibiting the body) then death has probably gotta be an option. An attempt to keep bodily fluids from leaking onto the carpet makes more sense, that would increase the smell. Both of course are heinous acts & I do not see any statutory mitigating factors leaping out either.

And, on an earlier post you wrote your feelings were ridiculous; my response was meant to mean that your feelings are not. This case is horribly confounding, how could she be out dancing if she knew her child had just died?

I think that even when our feelings differ it doesn't matter; all of our feelings (at least) are valid and come from complete and total bewilderment.

[lighthousedazy]

I think that even when our feelings differ it doesn't matter; all of our feelings (at least) are valid and come from complete and total bewilderment.
Exactly. :shrug:

[Justice Denied?]

Hey Peach, we are running out of attorneys down here to work on this case. You might have to drive down and offer your services.:D

Tonights news on Myfoxorlando and WESH: Dominic Casey very upset with the other PI, Hunter. Seems the video tape is of Dominic taking photos of the burial site prior to remains being found. Hunter is shopping the video around for sale to the media. Dominic said he will get an attorney and sue Hunter. Dominic states he never saw a body and had no knowledge that the body was there he said he took pictures of bottles, tires, trash. Dominic says there is no way to prove or disprove that the body was there. You just would not be able to tell. He did say he would fully cooperate with LE.

Fox states that it's reported that Hunter has videotaped over the original tape. :rolleyes:

Gator

Oh, my goodness, What next? Just when I get this part about the video straightened out where I understand it they put another kink in it. What are they going for? Reasonable doubt?

[lighthousedazy]

Okay I remember he needed to get something and she was blocking him. I just don't know if that happened before he picked up the car at the tow yard or after. According to Lee the tow yard notified them by certified letter and they missed the mail carrier who left notice on their front door. Lee said they didn't use the front door and later found it when they were doing yard work. C&G did. After George picked up the car, was that when he and Cindy had the little shoving match about who would get the widget out of the car?

After re reading this I think I just asked a stupid question. The body wasn't in the car when George picked it up. This case is nuts. It maybe too late to drive me crazy too!
I am confused too. Was this when George wanted to get the gas cans or a tool or something out of the trunk? I do believe that was before the tow yard. Casey said I will get your ******* so and so out of the trunk. just my opinion or thought.

[One2Snoop]

After reading the interview with Lee and the police I learned so much about Casey. He mentioned that he found it odd that her things were so organized when he picked them up at Tony's. He said she was not organized usually, nor was he. They both just threw things around and he said that if someone told him Casey packed that stuff, he wouldn't believe them. So it makes sense that the whole picture of the murder is sloppy. http://www.wftv.com/news/18388517/detail.html Click the link and notice a list of transcripts and videos on the left. BTW, he said there were none of Caylee's belongings in her backpack or anywhere in Tony's apartment.


She threw the book away because it was in her way, and didn't care where it landed. IMO. Sloppy people are usually sloppy thinkers. I'd be surprised if she threw that book there for a reason but I could be wrong. If she tossed the body there in a hurry, why would she have the book with her?

"What's within you surrounds you." is a very old adage that I use often when I'm cleaning up someone else's mess.



On the NG special tonight they showed the part where detectives were questioning Casey at Universal and she told them about the supposed phone call she had with Caylee and how Caylee was happy and talking about the book. Another clue she was giving. IMO ~ JMO

[lighthousedazy]

OH NO, she's a PISCES!! Now I'm really stumped! She has to have some serious hard wiring problems. Pisces is a very nice sign to be born under. :(

I know I know,, not relevant! :punch:Oh my Loretta. The child of mine that I did the eyebrow raising test on is also a pisces. :D

[One2Snoop]

I am confused too. Was this when George wanted to get the gas cans or a tool or something out of the trunk? I do believe that was before the tow yard. Casey said I will get your ******* so and so out of the trunk. just my opinion or thought.

Yes thats when he wanted to get the gas cans out of the car and Casey was freaking out (so to speak) and wouldn't let George near the car. Now, my only thinking on this is George didn't get close enough to see or smell anything and once gas cans were in his hands that's all he smelled - was gasoline. Seems like the only reasonable explanation to me as to why he didn't smell anything before the car was abandoned and then towed.

[One2Snoop]

I haven't been following the case as closely as some of you have.
Has LE ever officially confirmed that there was duct tape around the face of the skull.

There have been a lot of unconfirmed rumors circulating about the case.
Sometimes the talking heads on TV discuss the rumor as if it's a fact and even debate back and forth about it for twenty minutes.
:confused:

I don't know if this helps or not but the Anthony's new attorney, Conway stated duct tape wasn't found in the Anthony home so investigators (forensics) had nothing to compare what was found on the body. Not verbatim - let me find the info and I'll post it.

[Peachallie]

I think that even when our feelings differ it doesn't matter; all of our feelings (at least) are valid and come from complete and total bewilderment.
********************************
thank you for the right word; this is bewildering. I see parents allow horrible things to happen to their kids but it usually drugs, crack or crank; some have diagnosed mental illness. Those parents are NOT dressing up to go out to nightclubs. Some are back & forth between county jails & Chattahoochee*, but not seemingly functional. Casey Anthony is almost Bundy like.



*It is lovely now, nothing like the movie; trees & shrubs well cared for, quiet, peaceful......but one of the buildings is still there. Its an administration building now.

[lighthousedazy]

Okay, so Casey was at the house before the car was towed. That answers my question. I missed a whole section of the puzzle. She must have trolloped in and out of the house a few times since she moved out.Yes, I believe she made herself at home while George and Cindy were working. jmo

[lorettalockhorn]

Yes thats when he wanted to get the gas cans out of the car and Casey was freaking out (so to speak) and wouldn't let George near the car. Now, my only thinking on this is George didn't get close enough to see or smell anything and once gas cans were in his hands that's all he smelled - was gasoline. Seems like the only reasonable explanation to me as to why he didn't smell anything before the car was abandoned and then towed.

The only thing that I don't understand about that is that when Casey ran out of gas, she and Tony got into the shed to get the gas cans, and then she rabbited out of his car to put the gas into her tank (presumably so he wouldn't smell the awful odor). So how is it that George got close enough to the car that day to almost get the shims/widgets/whatchamacallits but didn't' smell the odor? And wasn't the car in the garage? Wouldn't the confined space have magnified the odor?

Man, I just cannot help but wonder if George lied about this. Already have serious doubts that he saw Casey and Caylee on the 16th.

[One2Snoop]

Clue? That means there was a method to her madness? She meant to throw the book there,for a reason, okay. Now shoot me. Got any hagnog on ya snoop?

Hagnog on its way and I'll even throw in a few shots of takillya if you like. :biggrin:

[One2Snoop]

I haven't been following the case as closely as some of you have.
Has LE ever officially confirmed that there was duct tape around the face of the skull.

There have been a lot of unconfirmed rumors circulating about the case.
Sometimes the talking heads on TV discuss the rumor as if it's a fact and even debate back and forth about it for twenty minutes.
:confused:



snip
On WESH-Channel 2, attorney Brad Conway said his clients George and Cindy Anthony will turn over any evidence, even if it's damaging to daughter Casey's case. Conway told Bob Kealing that law enforcement did not find duct tape in the Anthonys' home. Duct tape was reportedly found on Caylee's skull. "We are expecting many more developments in the coming weeks," Kealing said in ending his report.
http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2008/12/we-end-the-year.html

[One2Snoop]

The only thing that I don't understand about that is that when Casey ran out of gas, she and Tony got into the shed to get the gas cans, and then she rabbited out of his car to put the gas into her tank (presumably so he wouldn't smell the awful odor). So how is it that George got close enough to the car that day to almost get the shims/widgets/whatchamacallits but didn't' smell the odor? And wasn't the car in the garage? Wouldn't the confined space have magnified the odor?

Man, I just cannot help but wonder if George lied about this. Already have serious doubts that he saw Casey and Caylee on the 16th.

The car wasn't in the garage that I'm aware of - only after it was towed home and Lee said he walked in and smelled that awful smell and couldn't stand it. I believe the incident you're referring to was when it was parked in front of the house/possibly in the driveway but for some reason in front of the house stands out to me.

[One2Snoop]

Can you intravenous that stuff cause I'm very confused right now. And can you throw some fries on the side? Oh, and a burger with just mustard? Um an extra salt... thank you. I owe ya.
;)

How about a Bocca burger instead? - no meat for this gal! LOL.

[Justice Denied?]

Here she is in all her despicable glory. Not fcaring that her daughter is decaying in The Zone:

http://i36.tinypic.com/2yuhg7k.jpg

I just noticed that her birthday is 3/19. Wouldn't it be great to start her trial on her birthday?

[Justice Denied?]

I don't know if this helps or not but the Anthony's new attorney, Conway stated duct tape wasn't found in the Anthony home so investigators (forensics) had nothing to compare what was found on the body. Not verbatim - let me find the info and I'll post it.

So why don't they check Toni's apartment where she was staying? Maybe the garbage bags and the duct tape came from there.

[FDInLaw]

Hi Gang! :seeya:

Just want to state that this forum ROCKS! Y'all are a great bunch of people! It's wonderful to see a case, as heartwrenching as this one, discussed in a civil manner with humor here and there just to keep us all sane. It's perfect. :hat: (IMO :D )


SMOOCHERS ~ FD

[lorettalockhorn]

So why don't they check Toni's apartment where she was staying? Maybe the garbage bags and the duct tape came from there.

Or check Amy's roll. Casey had borrowed it according to a post on facebook or myspace.

3/19 trial date works for me! :beer: But I'm thinking that Baez isn't as interested in a speedy trial now that Caylee has been found.

[Justice Denied?]

I'm still reeling from Lee's session with the police shortly after Casey came home. He told the officer who was questioning him that Cindy and Casey had a problem with who mothered Casey. He said there were arguments and Cindy referred to Caylee as the best mistake Casey ever made. She took care of her financially and Casey always felt like a failure and a bad daughter. Then he said when Cindy pulled into the driveway with Casey in the car he knew they had been arguing and Cindy told him they needed to go get Caylee and Casey refused to tell where she was.

He said later, Casey sat on her bed while Cindy went outside to calm down and he questioned her... she claimed she was always told she was a bad daughter and a bad mother and on and on, laying guilt where she wanted it to go. It was also when she told him "Maybe" she was a spiteful bit*h. When Cindy walked into the room and Casey told her she hadn't seen Caylee in 31 days, Cindy screamed, "What have you done?" Bad blood there for sure!

(paraphrasing)

Goodnight my fellow arm chair detectives. :seeya:

"What have you done?" I think that Cindy knew or at least suspected from the very beginning that Casey was responsible for whatever happened to Casey.

[lighthousedazy]

Hi Gang! :seeya:

Just want to state that this forum ROCKS! Y'all are a great bunch of people! It's wonderful to see a case, as heartwrenching as this one, discussed in a civil manner with humor here and there just to keep us all sane. It's perfect. :hat: (IMO :D )


SMOOCHERS ~ FD
FD you are so right. I remember another heartwrenching case about a beautiful school teacher that went missing (Tara Grinstead), and her forum was turned into a fiasco every so often by trolls, and hatemongers. Could never understand why. jmo :rose:

[One2Snoop]

So why don't they check Toni's apartment where she was staying? Maybe the garbage bags and the duct tape came from there.

Or check Amy's roll. Casey had borrowed it according to a post on facebook or myspace.

3/19 trial date works for me! :beer: But I'm thinking that Baez isn't as interested in a speedy trial now that Caylee has been found.

Hey JD - I'm sure its been checked out - but Loretta is right - Casey borrowed a roll of duct tape from Amy - I wonder if it was ever found?

[One2Snoop]

Hi Gang! :seeya:

Just want to state that this forum ROCKS! Y'all are a great bunch of people! It's wonderful to see a case, as heartwrenching as this one, discussed in a civil manner with humor here and there just to keep us all sane. It's perfect. :hat: (IMO :D )


SMOOCHERS ~ FD

LOL :cool: You got that right! :beer:

[One2Snoop]

As a refresher, go to Main page, timeline of events.

Read Cindy's post on her myspace about Caylee missing.

TELL ME this will NOT come up in the trial, and Cindy WILL NOT have to testify about the meaning of this post.

This is going to be used ...betya.

It's in print - no doubt it will but I can see Cindy spinning it as I sit here and type.... http://img3.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/confused/confused0015.gif (http://www.mysmiley.net/free-happy-smileys.php)

[lorettalockhorn]

Shout out to Danager, who asked the question about this in an earlier post and I didn't get to answer.

(Special Thanks to One2, who posted the timeline of events on the main Caylee thread...otherwise I'd still be spinning my wheels...)

One more thing....WHO, WHEN AND WHERE did the info come in about those fsquirrels??????

June 18 - Casey borrows shovel & backs car to garage
June24 - George calls sheriff reporting gas cans stolen
June 24- same day, Casey shows up to pick up clothes..alone. (George learns cans are in trunk)..."here's your fcans!!!!!"
June 27- car left at Amscot
June 30-car is towed to tow yard
July 16- car is brought to anthonys

MOO - she might have purposely spilled some gas in the trunk to mask the odor, which is why G didn't catch it, or else he could have been a couple of yards away when she slammed those cans at him (were they empty? Did he ever get the widget?) I imagine that trunk cooking in the FL sun from June 17th (approx) through to July 16th when G and the tow driver smelled it, made all the difference in the world.

When did she tell peple about those squirrels climbing in and dying..the first time she ever talked about it?

That's a real possibility. (STILL cannot believe that G&C let Casey drive around with a broken gas gauge, and that driving around with gas cans in the car was safe for Caylee), but anyway, O2S is probably right that Casey's car wasn't actually in the garage:

GEORGE: Casey pops in the door. I hear the garage door open, here comes Casey. And I think I startled her sort of being there, because my car was inside the garage...

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0809/30/ng.01.html

I just read something about the squirrels and I've already forgotten. :punch:

[Peachallie]

3/19 trial date works for me! :beer: But I'm thinking that Baez isn't as interested in a speedy trial now that Caylee has been found.[/QUOTE]
***************************************
It'll be tough to get the depos done by then but they'll probably get special service. I still think Casey Anthony will plead out. She doesn't appear to have the fortitude to get through trial. More of a shell of a person than an individual.

[FDInLaw]

LOL :cool: You got that right! :beer:

If anyone doubts this, go check out the OJ forum. . . :chicken:



:biggrin:

[lorettalockhorn]

Well, Cindy talks about the squirrel stink (from that same NG link), but not sure of the date:

CINDY ANTHONY: She said it was a squirrel.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So she started telling me stories from the 25th on. Why -- I just want to plant the seed, OK? You don`t have to answer. Why would you do that? Why would you try and pass off the smell? Because we all know that there was a smell in the car. I`m not here to dispute what the smell was, OK? We all know there was a very bad smell in the car. Why would she start to say to her friends and text message -- we have text messages. Why would she say, Hey, I think my dad, you know, hit something with the car, and then later on say, yes, it looks like my dad hit something with the car and the car stinks?

CINDY ANTHONY: I have no idea.

[mu8shark]

LP on NG last night; I'll look around for more about his Daisy Chain Theory and how Casey, Lee, and the meter reader are connected ( :rolleyes: ) :

...CASAREZ: But to Leonard Padilla -- you are a bounty hunter. You searched for Caylee from the beginning. You believe this video exists. Have you seen it?

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Yes.

CASAREZ: Tell us about it.

PADILLA: I was introduced to Hoover back when we bailed out Casey in August. And because we have basically a sealed team, we don`t allow outsiders in. And therefore, even though he volunteered to help and all that, he wasn`t accepted.

When we went back this last time, we noticed that he was part of the security or the people that were hanging around the Anthonys. And after I had been there about three or four days, he mentioned to me that he had a film that he had filmed when Dominic called him on the 15th. And I asked him, I says, How can you have a film of the area? He says, Well, Dominic called me on the 15th, told me Caylee had been found. Hoover told me that he asked him, Is she alive? He said, No, she`s dead, but we`re going to go get her right now.

He then -- about two hours later, he showed up again. He had this film, a minute-and-a-half. But it`s not of the exact area where the body was found...


...UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Jean. Thanks.

CASAREZ: Hi.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have a comment and a question. My comment is to Leonard Padilla. In the beginning, I really didn`t like him when he got Casey out of jail, but he`s turned out to be a great guy and a good help with this case.

My question is, have they seized another computer from the Anthonys` home since the grandmother sent the e-mail regarding the hairbrush?


CASAREZ: All right. Good question.

Leonard Padilla, we`ll go to you. You do know so much about this case, you are extremely valuable, and our caller confirmed that.

What do you know about a second computer at all that was taken from the home?

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, SEARCHED FOR CAYLEE ANTHONY: Well, I don`t know about that. But what I do know is that Hoover`s cell phone, some still photos and the tape, according to what he told one of the media people in Orlando, have been confiscated by the FBI.

So they have that in their -- also, let me explain something. The meter reader on the 11th, 12th and 13th was about 600 yards off. The place where the kids used to congregate is not where they found the body.

They found the body at the end of a fence that comes right off the meter of the two -- hope spring and the street there where the body was found. They found the body at the end of a fence that comes right off the corner of the two, Hope Spring and the street there where the body was found. So they were off by about 600 yards.

When Dominic and Hoover were out there and Hoover was filming, was off by about 200, maybe 30 yards. Rob Dick is the one that can put more precise measurements to it.

CASAREZ: So how is that videotape going to help anybody, then, if it`s not the precise area?

PADILLA: Well, the body had to be found while Casey was in custody, which would have been the 11th, 12th and 13th. The tip had to come from Casey through a daisy chain to an unsuspecting meter reader that he was being used.

When the body wasn`t found because he was off by 600 yards, then the next thing is lay off because Padilla is getting Casey outs of jail. She went back into custody on the 14th of October. Subsequent to my fiasco up at the Little Econ. they sent Dominic and Hoover back out there.

Dominic`s specific -- Hoover says to me, Dominic says we found the body, we`ve got to go get her. Hoover asks him, is she alive, he says no, she is dead. But we have to go out there.

CASAREZ: And when was this? The date?

PADILLA: The 15th and 16th. Now, I saw the film myself. It says the 15th of November on it, but I know that things can be changed and is I know that, you know, these -- these things are for different purposes.

But I`ll tell you why Hoover filmed it, and that is because he was trying to sell it to media people from New York. I saw a lady there that I worked with on a murder/homicide/missing lady case back in Sacramento in `96.

Her purpose of being there is to buy film for NBC. There was another situation that came up where Hoover himself showed it to a couple of the local media people so I don`t know if they copied it or not.

One last thing. Dominic was not working for the attorney back in August when we were there. He was always represented to us as being an employee of the Anthony family. They always tried to get us to go see him, talk to him, meet with him. We never did. But he was always represented as being a private detective, hired by the Anthony family.

We always thought because of the name confusion that he was some kind of relative. He was not working for the attorney in those days.

CASAREZ: And when did the FBI get the videotape and still pictures you`re talking about from Jim Hoover or who took them?

PADILLA: My understanding is that they actually got it from him around the 17th or 18th of December.

CASAREZ: Of December.

PADILLA: Of December, yes. Somewhere in there.

CASAREZ: So they have -- very interesting. Jennifer.

PADILLA: They have the cell phone.

CASAREZ: Yes.

PADILLA: They have his pictures and also some still photos.

CASAREZ: OK.

PADILLA: . that he had. It`s important to them....

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0812/30/ng.01.html Thanks for getting this, although I watched it the one thing I noticed in your post of it is that it was not Hoover who said we found Caylee, it was that Dominic Casey told Hoover this and Hoover dropped it at Leonards feet. Which is kind of interesting because I did not know anything about this Hoover guy but did not trust Dominic Casey at all, Dominic Casey was the one who supposedly told the Anthonys that everything Casey said turned out to be true. I also think he was the one supposedly watching the real kidnappers. I have also heard Dominic is linked to KidFinders network, which makes me think when you put it all together he has been stringing Cindy and George along telling them what they want to hear so he can get a paycheck out of this. Why would he tell Hoover they had quote found her and she was not alive and they needed to go get her and then drag Hoover along to film that specific area. I am very suspcious of this guy indeed and if I were LE I would get Dominic Caseys phone records and email around the time that he sent Hoover to film that area, even if it is about 600 yards away from where the body was found. And I would find out through those records or try to find out who sent Dominic Casey to the area a month prior to where Caylees body was found. Because unless they find out that Casey and Hoover filmed lots of areas, then something is up and the phone records and email and texts may be very helpful indeed.

[mu8shark]

That's a real possibility. (STILL cannot believe that G&C let Casey drive around with a broken gas gauge, and that driving around with gas cans in the car was safe for Caylee), but anyway, O2S is probably right that Casey's car wasn't actually in the garage:

GEORGE: Casey pops in the door. I hear the garage door open, here comes Casey. And I think I startled her sort of being there, because my car was inside the garage...

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0809/30/ng.01.html

I just read something about the squirrels and I've already forgotten. :punch:
Don't hold me to this and I will try to go investigate but I think the first text message about the quote dead smell and squirrels was to Amy after the 20th of June and prior to Casey picking up Amy at the airport. So she had already probably smelled her car, knew the body smell might not go away and was prepping her excuse. Like"Oh yeah I told Amy about the dead squirrels you can ask her, she probably still has the texts." Problem is she screwed the pooch because when Cindy said oh the car did not smell until five days after it was towed, Casey herself debunked that if I recall right by texting about the smell like around June 20-24. I am pretty sure of that because I remember when Cindy said that about when the car first started smelling trying to make it sound like it was fine when precious drove it and dumped it, I came on this board and my own site and said Hey wait a minute look at the texts you can see Casey just disproved that with her dead squirrel story. Interestingly enough Casey told Lee at one point that her car began to smell as far back and June 9th , but she did it in retrospect like on July 16th and not June 9th. And Lee told LE that was not true because George maintained those cars and if it had smelled that early George would have noticed. So Lee knew Casey was trying to pull a fast one .

[mu8shark]

I haven't been following the case as closely as some of you have.
Has LE ever officially confirmed that there was duct tape around the face of the skull.

There have been a lot of unconfirmed rumors circulating about the case.
Sometimes the talking heads on TV discuss the rumor as if it's a fact and even debate back and forth about it for twenty minutes.
:confused:One night when Perper was on NG he said he has spoken with someone and that the tape was not only around the mouth but the entire skull. I am not sure who he was saying he spoke with but he made it clear it was around the entire skull and not just the mouth.

[One2Snoop]

LP on NG last night; I'll look around for more about his Daisy Chain Theory and how Casey, Lee, and the meter reader are connected ( :rolleyes: ) :

...CASAREZ: But to Leonard Padilla -- you are a bounty hunter. You searched for Caylee from the beginning. You believe this video exists. Have you seen it?

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Yes.

CASAREZ: Tell us about it.

PADILLA: I was introduced to Hoover back when we bailed out Casey in August. And because we have basically a sealed team, we don`t allow outsiders in. And therefore, even though he volunteered to help and all that, he wasn`t accepted.

When we went back this last time, we noticed that he was part of the security or the people that were hanging around the Anthonys. And after I had been there about three or four days, he mentioned to me that he had a film that he had filmed when Dominic called him on the 15th. And I asked him, I says, How can you have a film of the area? He says, Well, Dominic called me on the 15th, told me Caylee had been found. Hoover told me that he asked him, Is she alive? He said, No, she`s dead, but we`re going to go get her right now.

He then -- about two hours later, he showed up again. He had this film, a minute-and-a-half. But it`s not of the exact area where the body was found...


...UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Jean. Thanks.

CASAREZ: Hi.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have a comment and a question. My comment is to Leonard Padilla. In the beginning, I really didn`t like him when he got Casey out of jail, but he`s turned out to be a great guy and a good help with this case.

My question is, have they seized another computer from the Anthonys` home since the grandmother sent the e-mail regarding the hairbrush?


CASAREZ: All right. Good question.

Leonard Padilla, we`ll go to you. You do know so much about this case, you are extremely valuable, and our caller confirmed that.

What do you know about a second computer at all that was taken from the home?

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, SEARCHED FOR CAYLEE ANTHONY: Well, I don`t know about that. But what I do know is that Hoover`s cell phone, some still photos and the tape, according to what he told one of the media people in Orlando, have been confiscated by the FBI.

So they have that in their -- also, let me explain something. The meter reader on the 11th, 12th and 13th was about 600 yards off. The place where the kids used to congregate is not where they found the body.

They found the body at the end of a fence that comes right off the meter of the two -- hope spring and the street there where the body was found. They found the body at the end of a fence that comes right off the corner of the two, Hope Spring and the street there where the body was found. So they were off by about 600 yards.

When Dominic and Hoover were out there and Hoover was filming, was off by about 200, maybe 30 yards. Rob Dick is the one that can put more precise measurements to it.

CASAREZ: So how is that videotape going to help anybody, then, if it`s not the precise area?

PADILLA: Well, the body had to be found while Casey was in custody, which would have been the 11th, 12th and 13th. The tip had to come from Casey through a daisy chain to an unsuspecting meter reader that he was being used.

When the body wasn`t found because he was off by 600 yards, then the next thing is lay off because Padilla is getting Casey outs of jail. She went back into custody on the 14th of October. Subsequent to my fiasco up at the Little Econ. they sent Dominic and Hoover back out there.

Dominic`s specific -- Hoover says to me, Dominic says we found the body, we`ve got to go get her. Hoover asks him, is she alive, he says no, she is dead. But we have to go out there.

CASAREZ: And when was this? The date?

PADILLA: The 15th and 16th. Now, I saw the film myself. It says the 15th of November on it, but I know that things can be changed and is I know that, you know, these -- these things are for different purposes.

But I`ll tell you why Hoover filmed it, and that is because he was trying to sell it to media people from New York. I saw a lady there that I worked with on a murder/homicide/missing lady case back in Sacramento in `96.

Her purpose of being there is to buy film for NBC. There was another situation that came up where Hoover himself showed it to a couple of the local media people so I don`t know if they copied it or not.

One last thing. Dominic was not working for the attorney back in August when we were there. He was always represented to us as being an employee of the Anthony family. They always tried to get us to go see him, talk to him, meet with him. We never did. But he was always represented as being a private detective, hired by the Anthony family.

We always thought because of the name confusion that he was some kind of relative. He was not working for the attorney in those days.

CASAREZ: And when did the FBI get the videotape and still pictures you`re talking about from Jim Hoover or who took them?

PADILLA: My understanding is that they actually got it from him around the 17th or 18th of December.

CASAREZ: Of December.

PADILLA: Of December, yes. Somewhere in there.

CASAREZ: So they have -- very interesting. Jennifer.

PADILLA: They have the cell phone.

CASAREZ: Yes.

PADILLA: They have his pictures and also some still photos.

CASAREZ: OK.

PADILLA: . that he had. It`s important to them....

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0812/30/ng.01.html

My head is spinning again. :eek: Say what???? :shrug:


CASAREZ: So how is that videotape going to help anybody, then, if it`s not the precise area?

PADILLA: Well, the body had to be found while Casey was in custody, which would have been the 11th, 12th and 13th. The tip had to come from Casey through a daisy chain to an unsuspecting meter reader that he was being used.

[mu8shark]

*******************************************
IF the state can prove she used duct tape to stage a kidnapping (for WHOM though, she wasn't exhibiting the body) then death has probably gotta be an option. An attempt to keep bodily fluids from leaking onto the carpet makes more sense, that would increase the smell. Both of course are heinous acts & I do not see any statutory mitigating factors leaping out either.

And, on an earlier post you wrote your feelings were ridiculous; my response was meant to mean that your feelings are not. This case is horribly confounding, how could she be out dancing if she knew her child had just died?I don't mean to get gross or overreach here but the bodily fluid when decomposing would leak out from all kinds of places not just the mouth and LE said she dumped the body soon after the killing so( probably the 20th is the first day they are looking at and the 27th the last possible date ) it makes much more sense she did it to keep her quiet or literally as a way to suffocate her. You make a good point about staging a kidnapping, for whom? Because obviously she was not counting on the body being found so why would she do all this staging? I think it is going to hurt her. I have even heard some defense attorneys, not all (Not Janie Weintraub of course LOL) say it really makes things worse for Casey that they found that tape wrapped that way. I was wondering, could the prosecutor use Perper as a kind of back up expert along with obviously Dr G? He says in his experience that tape means nothing but premeditation. He was very firm on it and his no nonsense approach might go along way. I like him because although he is on tv you can't change his mind and he does not try to dazzle with outrageous claims. If he does not know he says I don't know. If he does not think it can be found out, he just says so. I get the feeling he could care less whether he is on tv or in his living room, he would give the same answer.

[One2Snoop]

One night when Perper was on NG he said he has spoken with someone and that the tape was not only around the mouth but the entire skull. I am not sure who he was saying he spoke with but he made it clear it was around the entire skull and not just the mouth.

I think I remember that - even worse if its true. The only thing that can mean to me is Casey couldn't stand looking at Caylee's face knowing what she'd done. uggghhhh! :mad:

[mu8shark]

Thank you, Loretta! Just as you pulled it up, I was reading that whole piece.

Listen to this..

QUOTE: GEORGE A " I did not look in the trunk because the distance I was at - she just handed them to me and slammed the trunk." (here's your fkn cans)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
MOO
He did NOT get to smell the trunk he wasn't close enough and she purposely kept him back as we can tell, from her actions and her words. June 24th is when she was caught with the cans...approx. the 25th , next day, she started texting friends and telling friends different versions of the squirrel story. Strange . That leaves 2 more days before the car is left at Amscot, the 27th. She dumped Caylee between the 24th and the 27th. Caylee died on the 17th, and was probably in the trunk for those 7 or 8 days. either G almost caught her with Caylee in the trunk, or it was because of the slight smell.

That leftover duct tape was thrown out after it was used. It's been gone a Loooooooooooooog time!!! She may be stupid, but she aint crazy ;)Okay here is my own opinion I think you will find LE thinks she dumped the body much sooner. When Padilla, (Not Leonard the other) spoke he said one of the things they knew was that she dumped the body soon after the killing. And I think, of course this is just my theory when Tony picked her on the 20th the day she ran out of gas , the first time not at Amscott, she was on the same street walking as where she dumped Caylee. I think that is pretty coincidental. I think she would not have risked Tony sniffing around her car and saying Casey what is the smell, lets look in the trunk , so I think she panicked on the 20th and ditched that body right away in a hell of a panic. I think on the 24th she did not want George at the back of the car, not because the body was still there but because she knew how he was about car mainteneance and if he would have smelled that, he would have grilled the hell out of her about that and even looked in there and seen the decomp fluid which had leaked and been like "Casey , what the hell?" So while the texting date makes sense, because it was before the car was at the tow yard, I calmly have another theory about her dumping the body much sooner. What a coincidence she ran out of gas on Chickasaw and Caylee was found at the crossroads of Chickasaw and something. Bet she did not plan for that.!!! And also the way LE said they believe she dumped it soon after the homicide. Just my theory.

[lorettalockhorn]

One night when Perper was on NG he said he has spoken with someone and that the tape was not only around the mouth but the entire skull. I am not sure who he was saying he spoke with but he made it clear it was around the entire skull and not just the mouth.

CASAREZ: Well, let me tell you, the Zenaida Gonzalez that was the focus initially of this investigation, she has filed a civil suit against Casey Anthony. So that has already been done, which is very interesting, because we don`t think there is a lot of money there. But based in principle, this young woman believes her name has been ruined.

I want to go to a very, very special guest right now. Dr. Joshua Perper, he is the chief medical examiner of Broward County. He is the author of the book, "When to Call The Doctor." He is nationally renowned. He is actually the forensic pathologist that determined the cause of death of Anna Nicole Smith in Florida. It`s an honor to have you with us tonight. Thank you so much.

I want to ask you a question, because I think what is so important in this case, and the results are yet to be known, is forensically what will be found on any duct tape that was around the head, around the mouth, any area of the torso. Here`s what I want to ask you: if the prosecution would bring the death penalty to this case, I think it would be important to find out if the duct tape was put on while Casey Anthony was alive. And I want to ask you, could any hair or any tissue that got stuck on the sticky side of that tape while Casey Anthony was alive, can that be determined forensically?

DR. JOSHUA PERPER, CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER, BROWARD COUNTY: If there is such evidence, it will be determined. However, there is no question in my mind, and I think that the reason why the medical examiner determined the case to be a homicide, that this tape was placed when the child was alive until the child died. Because there`s no reason in the world why this tape would have been wrapped around the head.

CASAREZ: Right. And legally speaking, homicide is death at the hands of another. Dr. Perper, when you look at duct tape, how good of a conductor is it of finger prints? Because if there was an accomplice, if there was someone else that was involved, would that be the area where forensically you could determine the acts of another?

PERPER: This would be a good conductor, if it`s dry. But remember that this tape was soaked in it water for a long period of time, that whatever finger prints were there disappeared.

CASAREZ: What about the humidity of Florida`s sun? Does that also dissipate the levels of DNA?

PERPER: The DNA level is a different story. But, yes, there can be defraction by heat. But in this particular case, they proved that the DNA of the child indeed identified her as Caylee. And there was no other DNA. The hair, which was found in the trunk of the car, could have equally been coming from the mother or from the -- this unfortunate child.

CASAREZ: You know, another thing that I wanted to ask you, because prosecutors need to link the crime scene where the skeletal remains were found with Casey. That is critical for the prosecution`s case. I was reading in the forensic report from the FBI that the air testing in the truck showed air samples of decomposition associated with anaerobic decomposition. Can you put that in plain English?

PERPER: Yes, well anaerobic decomposition means the decomposition in the absence of air, in the absence of oxygen. The explanation might be that inside the plastic bag there was not much air. Besides that, many of the decomposition processes themselves are anaerobic, and there is no use of oxygen. But because of this anaerobic lack of oxygen, this is consistent with the skeleton being in the bag, as it was found.

CASAREZ: So there is a link, potentially, between the car trunk and the air samples of decomposition, and the crime scene.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0812/29/ng.01.html

[mu8shark]

Mu, I could hug you!! I thought I was out of my everlovin mind, because I said that, and everyone said they didn't hear that, and I thought I was losing it because I knew I heard it~ more than once! (whew)

Here's a shot of Haterage for the New Year! :beer:It was one of the early times he was on the show after body was found and Nancy was going on and on about it being around the mouth only and he answered it was around the skull! I really do remember it being that way.

[One2Snoop]

Anthony’s PI: no videos of the site where remains found
Last Edited: Thursday, 01 Jan 2009, 9:54 PM EST
Created: Thursday, 01 Jan 2009, 9:54 PM EST

SEMINOLE COUNTY, Fla. (WOFL FOX 35, Orlando) -- As reports circulate in the media that two private investigators who worked for the Anthony family may have visited the site where Caylee Anthony’s remains where eventually found, one of the investigators is coming forward to distance himself from the other.

2 year old Caylee Anthony was missing since June of last year, her remains were found in November.

George and Cindy Anthony are the grandparents of the toddler. Caylee's mother Casey Anthony sets in jail accused of murder.

Published reports said this week that the private investigators had made videotapes they took while in the area where the remains were found, before they were actually found.

Dominic Casey of D&A Investigations said Thursday that James Hoover, the other private investigator associated with this case, and the man who is alleged by some to have made the videotapes, is not employed by his agency.
VIDEO: Anthony’s PI: no videos of the site where remains found Casey said Hoover simply showed up at the Anthony's door one day and offered to help them deal with protesters free of charge, and the Anthony’s allowed it

According to Casey he's the only private investigator working on the case for the Anthony's and admitted he went to the site where the remains were found November 15th.

"I went out there to determine if it really was a place where teens hung out,” Casey said.

Casey added that he was taking photos to document information found in discovery documents that stated it was a teen hang out. He said he was looking for items such as beer bottles, makeshift chairs and similar items.

While he was there, Casey said that James Hoover snuck up on him.

"As I turned around, Hoover was standing there with a video camera,” Casey said. “I said, 'What are you doing here?' He said, ‘I thought you might want help.' I said, ‘James, that's completely inappropriate’."

Casey took photos of the area and said he's turned over his photos to the Anthony's attorney, to give to prosecutors.

According to Casey, James Hoover now claims his video no longer exists, that he taped over it.

"I would be interested to talking with James Hoover myself," Casey said. "I have over 40 phone calls in to him and he has not returned my phone calls."

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=8181718&version=2&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=1.1.1

[mu8shark]

On the NG special tonight they showed the part where detectives were questioning Casey at Universal and she told them about the supposed phone call she had with Caylee and how Caylee was happy and talking about the book. Another clue she was giving. IMO ~ JMODid they officially announce that was her book yet? I have been offline a few days or a day or so. I can see why she mentioned it. She knew what she left the body with or what she dumped around the body and if she left that book there for whatever reason, she recalled it for sure and told LE "Oh Caylee said this about her book, blah bla.h." So whoever had Caylee and the book on the 15th the day of the phone call would be the killer not herself! Every once in a while she tries to cover her ass, but it rarely works.

[lorettalockhorn]

>>According to Casey, James Hoover now claims his video no longer exists, that he taped over it.

Now wait just a rootin tootin minute. Didn't one of the TV stations report that they had seen the video (or part of it) and that it looked authentic?

[lighthousedazy]

>>According to Casey, James Hoover now claims his video no longer exists, that he taped over it.

Now wait just a rootin tootin minute. Didn't one of the TV stations report that they had seen the video (or part of it) and that it looked authentic?Oh my lawd...please let this case get to trial real soon and all the truths come out. :eek: :confused:

[lorettalockhorn]

Did they officially announce that was her book yet? I have been offline a few days or a day or so. I can see why she mentioned it. She knew what she left the body with or what she dumped around the body and if she left that book there for whatever reason, she recalled it for sure and told LE "Oh Caylee said this about her book, blah bla.h." So whoever had Caylee and the book on the 15th the day of the phone call would be the killer not herself! Every once in a while she tries to cover her ass, but it rarely works.

From the news update thread:

http://i39.tinypic.com/2vjcrkk.jpg
Orange County Sheriff's Office
This undated photo shows missing girl Caylee Anthony
reading a storybook police say they found in the
woods near her family's home.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,474746,00.html

[mu8shark]

Anthony’s PI: no videos of the site where remains found
Last Edited: Thursday, 01 Jan 2009, 9:54 PM EST
Created: Thursday, 01 Jan 2009, 9:54 PM EST

SEMINOLE COUNTY, Fla. (WOFL FOX 35, Orlando) -- As reports circulate in the media that two private investigators who worked for the Anthony family may have visited the site where Caylee Anthony’s remains where eventually found, one of the investigators is coming forward to distance himself from the other.

2 year old Caylee Anthony was missing since June of last year, her remains were found in November.

George and Cindy Anthony are the grandparents of the toddler. Caylee's mother Casey Anthony sets in jail accused of murder.

Published reports said this week that the private investigators had made videotapes they took while in the area where the remains were found, before they were actually found.

Dominic Casey of D&A Investigations said Thursday that James Hoover, the other private investigator associated with this case, and the man who is alleged by some to have made the videotapes, is not employed by his agency.
VIDEO: Anthony’s PI: no videos of the site where remains found Casey said Hoover simply showed up at the Anthony's door one day and offered to help them deal with protesters free of charge, and the Anthony’s allowed it

According to Casey he's the only private investigator working on the case for the Anthony's and admitted he went to the site where the remains were found November 15th.

"I went out there to determine if it really was a place where teens hung out,” Casey said.
Casey added that he was taking photos to document information found in discovery documents that stated it was a teen hang out. He said he was looking for items such as beer bottles, makeshift chairs and similar items.

While he was there, Casey said that James Hoover snuck up on him.

"As I turned around, Hoover was standing there with a video camera,” Casey said. “I said, 'What are you doing here?' He said, ‘I thought you might want help.' I said, ‘James, that's completely inappropriate’."

Casey took photos of the area and said he's turned over his photos to the Anthony's attorney, to give to prosecutors.

According to Casey, James Hoover now claims his video no longer exists, that he taped over it.

"I would be interested to talking with James Hoover myself," Casey said. "I have over 40 phone calls in to him and he has not returned my phone calls."

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=8181718&version=2&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=1.1.1 That is his story? He wanted to see if it was a place where teens hang out so he was taking photos of beer cars and stuff? There is nothing in this case to suggest teens had anything to do with this case at all. And even if he got the memo somehow that Kiomarie had said teens hang out, it just does not make sense this was his reason for being there. Was there going to be a debate between LE and defense at trial about whether teens hung out there at all? What difference would it make? No teens could have hung out there but Casey and her friends did years ago. This does not not make sense. Thanks for finding this article LOL even though the man in it, Dominic the Dumbo is a liar!If this was the kind of helpful stuff he was doing for the Anthonys no wonder nothing he told the Anthonys panned out. I don't believe him for one minute.PS Janie Weintraub my arch nemesis will be so disappointed, she and many others thought this tape was a defense gold mine and now they have taped over it!!

[lorettalockhorn]

Oh my lawd...please let this case get to trial real soon and all the truths come out. :eek: :confused:

...The same could be said for anyone who has been following this story closely. Hoover had shown a short portion of the tape to a WFTV photographer, and it looked authentic, Belich said...


http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2008/12/caylee-antho-10.html

[One2Snoop]

Did they officially announce that was her book yet? I have been offline a few days or a day or so. I can see why she mentioned it. She knew what she left the body with or what she dumped around the body and if she left that book there for whatever reason, she recalled it for sure and told LE "Oh Caylee said this about her book, blah bla.h." So whoever had Caylee and the book on the 15th the day of the phone call would be the killer not herself! Every once in a while she tries to cover her ass, but it rarely works.

I posted a page or two back a photo with a caption about LE saying it was the book, also found this...

snip

Ahead of the announcement, Florida police released evidence photos from the scene where the remains were found. One showed a picture book discovered in the woods that the child had been photographed reading before she vanished.

The book is among numerous pieces of evidence Orange County Sheriff's deputies say they found in the wooded area where Caylee's remains turned up.
http://www.myfoxorlando.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=8115453&version=5&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.2.1

[mu8shark]

From the news update thread: Holy Crap, thanks Loretta. I had not been there , trying to catch up on posts. Oh yeah, Casey knew what she was doing in the 'Hello Mommy." phone call. Trouble is no way that the ME said that child was alive that late. No way, although the ME can't say that Caylee died at such and such time like 3pm on Monday or whatever forensically, she can tell if that body was dumped on June 16th or July 16th, when Caylee was supposedly reading that book. Nice try Casey!

[lorettalockhorn]

Loretta ~

Does Leroy know you and I have the hots for Perper, cause my HB doesn't know, and what he doesn't know won't hurt him! I'm going to make a t-shirt with that cutie's picture on it........

LOL all the rest of you can look, but Don't touch!!!!!!:tongue: He's ours!!

LMAO I'm really torn about Perper. He's a cute as a bug, even though his head is shaped like Gumby's. But he's BALD!!!!!!!! That's all that matters. I cannot WAIT for Leroy's hair to fall out!!!!!! :hat::tongue::D;)

[lorettalockhorn]

Holy Crap, thanks Loretta. I had not been there , trying to catch up on posts. Oh yeah, Casey knew what she was doing in the 'Hello Mommy." phone call. Trouble is no way that the ME said that child was alive that late. No way, although the ME can't say that Caylee died at such and such time like 3pm on Monday or whatever forensically, she can tell if that body was dumped on June 16th or July 16th, when Caylee was supposedly reading that book. Nice try Casey!

That phone call from Caylee stinks to high heaven. If it was from "Private", HTF did Casey know that it was Zenaida who had Caylee?

Lying POS

[mu8shark]

...The same could be said for anyone who has been following this story closely. Hoover had shown a short portion of the tape to a WFTV photographer, and it looked authentic, Belich said...


http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2008/12/caylee-antho-10.html WTF? I forgot about that. So now Hoover says he taped over it and the WFTV reporter saw it when? Recently or did not say because if it was recent , it sounds fishy like he destroyed it or taped over it when he figured it might be problem. And if it was a while back it still sounds fishy, because what was so important about that area that he would show that tape to a reporter before the body was found???WTF

[lorettalockhorn]

WTF? I forgot about that. So now Hoover says he taped over it and the WFTV reporter saw it when? Recently or did not say because if it was recent , it sounds fishy like he destroyed it or taped over it when he figured it might be problem. And if it was a while back it still sounds fishy, because what was so important about that area that he would show that tape to a reporter before the body was found???WTF

From what I remember soon after the tape's existence was reported, the video had originally been much longer, and Hoover had since taped over The Zone section except for about ninety or so seconds.

[mu8shark]

Oh my lawd...please let this case get to trial real soon and all the truths come out. :eek: :confused: OMG tell me about that cute little puppy, is that yours , how old and what breed? Looks A-dor-able!

[mu8shark]

That phone call from Caylee stinks to high heaven. If it was from "Private", HTF did Casey know that it was Zenaida who had Caylee?

Lying POSLike I said she tries to Cover her ass, but it is kind of like someone pulling down their skirt so they won't reveal too much and then going topless , she just can't quite pull her whole look together! LOL! By the way someone on another board said Casey was smart, ! No she is not. IF she were smart she would have done her comp searches at the library and said she was carjacked and dumped the body stat!

[mu8shark]

It's a good theory and IMO entirely possible also. Either she was dumped already and the car smelled slightly, or she almost got caught. :flamemad:
I remember her running out of gas in that area..Do you know how close it really is to where Caylee's remains were found? Tony I believe told the police she was walking away from her car and he picked her up on Chickasaw but he does not say like in the interview an exact block and the body was found I believe at the corner of Chickasaw and something.I can't remember the cross street. You can bet LE will reinterview him or already has and ask much more specifically.

[mu8shark]

My head is spinning again. :eek: Say what???? :shrug:


CASAREZ: So how is that videotape going to help anybody, then, if it`s not the precise area?

PADILLA: Well, the body had to be found while Casey was in custody, which would have been the 11th, 12th and 13th. The tip had to come from Casey through a daisy chain to an unsuspecting meter reader that he was being used. Okay this makes no sense to me unless somebody had just dumped that body or she was moved. Because why would it help if the body was found on Aug 11, 12 or 13 even if Casey was in jail. It is not like police are going to say Oh my since we found on the 11th it must mean it was dumped just yesterday and Casey was in jail. If that body had been there, LE would still not assume it was left after Casey was in jail, only that they had not found it for a while. I don't get this theory at all as to why it would be so helpful to be found on those dates. Does this make sense what I am saying or asking ??

[mu8shark]

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2008/12/we-end-the-year.html I bet ya since the tape was not found in George and Cindys house , it was the tape Amy referenced in the tape. I am so glad she did that text, so now it will be hard for Casey to say, I never borrowed any tape from her, she is crazy. Because a jury will see the text and know duct tape was borrowed and Casey had some with her at one point. Good going Amy!!

[lorettalockhorn]

http://i42.tinypic.com/2d0zzn4.jpg

lmfao

[lorettalockhorn]

Gumby BEFORE he got cute:

http://i39.tinypic.com/27yanw0.jpg

[mu8shark]

****************************************
Rule 3.220, F.R.Crim.P. governs discovery (some states use the term disclosure) in criminal cases. Both sides are under a CONTINUING obligation to supplement discovery after the Defendant first gives notice of the intent to participate. (The Defendant can hide their evidence only by not asking the state for theirs.) The Defendant asked for discovery October 15, 2008.

The state has 15 days to send the initial document(s), the Defendant then has 15 days to send reciprocal discovery. I've read of defendants trying to get around reciprocal discovery by sending public record requests under Chapter 119, but the rule says that also acts as a request & requires the defense to turn over what they have. Usually it is a list of the subparts of the rule with some documents attached.

The Sunshine Law applies to government records and anybody can request things pursuant thereto. BUT, a reasonable copying charge may be imposed. That is NOT SO WITH DISCOVERY in criminal cases, though requests for electronic evidence may require the other side to provide cd's/tapes, etc.

TECHNICALLY, information given to the public must be repeated in a document from one side to the other; I've been involved in cases though where one party says "We didn't send this because it is public record, we figured they had it already".


Discovery should either be complete by pretrial (that includes depos) or planned & near enough to completion to explain it to the court. Continuances are often needed to complete discovery, mainly depositions.


I'm gonna sum it up now, I swear: if you are gonna use it at trial, you gotta let the other side know. What THEY make of it ain't your problem. Just for clarification the sunshine law and discovery do not have anything to do with one another. If a tv station requests info due to the Sunshine Law and they get it , they get it. The prosecution in any case would never say we did not send this or that document or video or interview because it was talked about on tv!! Or gee we thought it was just public knowledge. It would be considered a violation of discovery. I don't know what kind of cases you were involved in where you did that I bet you were fined and sanctioned a lot. You don't tell the judge , Oh the defense should of it seen on tv! Or it was in a public record somewhere. For one thing the Sunshine Law does not say that every single thing that LE knows must be made public. That is a myth that tv reporters have put out there. I can guarantee you there are probably lots of things we still don't know. Not to be nasty but maybe you should stay away from the copying and pasting of long involved legal jargon if it contradicts what you are saying and just explain it more plainly. I would think a lawyer would be able to do that. Just a suggestion.

[mu8shark]

*****************************************
First, if the state can PROVE duct tape was placed over her mouth while alive that would go to show premeditation (and possibly heinous, atrocious & cruel) and I'd think the state has good shot at a 1st degree murder conviction. Organic material ON the tape isn't going to prove the child was alive when the duct tape was placed there however. Vomiting is a normal side effect of chloroform administration. As I wrote, it MIGHT be that the duct tape was to keep out insect infestation (I read that a maggot was found in the trunk). It could have been used to keep body fluids from spilling onto the carpet also.*


*If so, THAT also shows a cold hearted & wanton disregard for human life that is difficult to fathom.Just curiously what kind of a lawyer are you that you are an expert in forensics and pharmacology? I am just curious. You did kind of change your tune from when they first found the tape and you said they would not get a first degree only a second degree. Did you look up felony murder perhaps?

[mu8shark]

That's what I would think. It makes no difference to me one way or the other though. Since peach offered the info that he/she was an atty I was just offering a way for it to be verified. No biggie. :seeya: Personally since I have been catching up , I just have one comment, I don't understand why people make grandiose claims because people do eventually see through them. I am not accusing either just saying. You can always tell lawyers because they are able to explain the law without lots of copying and pasting. And I gotta tell you sometimes the copying and pasting does not match up with what is being said or trying to be proved in the post. I am not starting a pissing contest understand,. Just saying......

[mu8shark]

Okay, I can't resist anymore...Where is this bug theory of yours coming from? I can picture it coming from KC as an attempt to avoid the DP, but then nothing she says makes any sense anyway...It just sounds like the kind of thing Baez would throw at the barn door to see if it might "stick"...

If the duct tape was to keep bugs out of the mouth because KC was "delicate", well, then wouldn't it have to be put on EVERY orifice (sorry to be so graphic). As for the maggots, they came FROM the decomp factors, it was not a maggot-mobile prior to, say, having a decomposing body in the trunk (theoretically-my husband sometimes refers to my car as The Composter...)-its not like anyone would look in their trunk and say, ooh, a maggot, I would best cover the mouth...

I agree that if there is bio material on the duct tape it would not likely prove vomit after all this exposure time, but if there is vomitus, then would that not prove she was alive with it on, as the vomiting would be an agonal phase issue and therefor be antemortum?

Sorry, I just am mystified by this mouth/insect theory and hope for some clarification of your train of thought on this...Java, I am no lawyer of course but the idea that a murderer puts duct tape on the mouth so a maggot would not get in the mouth. I have never , ever heard of that. Been snooping around true crime for about 30 years and know a pretty good homicide detective here in KC and he ask me 'Where did you get that?' and laughed. I am very skeptical of the tape so the maggots or bugs won't get in the mouth theorem as well.

[mu8shark]

I am glad I read your post before I commented. My thoughts are the same as yours. Dead bodies do not vomit. Therefore, the logical conclusion would be if vomitus is found, Caylee was alive when the tape was put over her mouth.

As for the mouth/insect theory, that sounds to me like a defense explanation that is simply preposterous.

From an emotional standpoint, I think we ALL would like to see the dp charged. Although I do believe the pros can get a 1st degree conviction, proving the elements necessary for the dp may be a little more difficult. My hope is they let the jury decide. After weighing all the evidence, they may return with a recommendation of life anyway and that would be just fine. I just want them to have the option. And I am glad I read your post before I commented because I was thinking the same thing, wait dead bodies do not vomit do they? LOL

[mu8shark]

************************************
Aggravated manslaughter, crimes comitted after the death to escape prosecution.Alright Peach don't want to seem like I am heckling ya but aggravated manslaughter is not crimes commited after death to escape prosecution, hiding the body , the disposal of a body, lying to the police to escape prosecution are not under the heading of aggravated manslaughter. Not even close. Those are all separate crimes really. Aggravated manslaughter is when you knowingly and recklessly do something that you know can cause another's death and you do it anyway. And you kill them. Tons of drunken driving cases end this way and it has nothing to do with commiting a crime after death to escape prosecution. You drive drunk,, you know you are doing something that is reckless and kill another , but because you did not intend to kill the person it is called manslaughter most of the time.

[mu8shark]

Hope you all don't mind I post bunches late at night but sometimes when I am off a few days I play catch up and lots to comment about. Hope it does not drive ya all nuts. Just sayin....Nite all

[STLcardfan]

testing testing. Ah ha it works I have been trying to remember my user name for months and it hit me tonight. I have been following all of your post and have to say I have never seen a forum on this board that most people actually agree on the guilt of the mother. all of your post have been very informative and just want to say THANKS. I think I remember a few of you from a former forum on another Florida crime the ANS soga. Most of you have signed off for the night so I will be back tomorrow to discuss with all of you this most heart wrenching case.

[Amy]

Okay I remember he needed to get something and she was blocking him. I just don't know if that happened before he picked up the car at the tow yard or after. According to Lee the tow yard notified them by certified letter and they missed the mail carrier who left notice on their front door. Lee said they didn't use the front door and later found it when they were doing yard work. C&G did. After George picked up the car, was that when he and Cindy had the little shoving match about who would get the widget out of the car?

After re reading this I think I just asked a stupid question. The body wasn't in the car when George picked it up. This case is nuts. It maybe too late to drive me crazy too!

It was Casey and George, on June 24th when George wanted something from the trunk and Casey was determined to not let him near the trunk. This was prior to July 15 when George and Cindy picked the car up from the towyard.

[Peachallie]

Just for clarification the sunshine law and discovery do not have anything to do with one another. If a tv station requests info due to the Sunshine Law and they get it , they get it. The prosecution in any case would never say we did not send this or that document or video or interview because it was talked about on tv!! Or gee we thought it was just public knowledge. It would be considered a violation of discovery. I don't know what kind of cases you were involved in where you did that I bet you were fined and sanctioned a lot. You don't tell the judge , Oh the defense should of it seen on tv! Or it was in a public record somewhere. For one thing the Sunshine Law does not say that every single thing that LE knows must be made public. That is a myth that tv reporters have put out there. I can guarantee you there are probably lots of things we still don't know. Not to be nasty but maybe you should stay away from the copying and pasting of long involved legal jargon if it contradicts what you are saying and just explain it more plainly. I would think a lawyer would be able to do that. Just a suggestion.
**************************************
As I wrote, the criminal discovery rule is 3.220, F.R.Crim.P., the Sunshine Law is Ch. 286; Ch. 119, the public records act. Rule 3.220 specifically notes that a Ch.119 request triggers 3.220. I did not write that I had argued information available through the media need not be divulged. In fact, I noted that such arguments had failed. Read more carefully. I have supplied the rules and statutes of Florida, the jargon is contained therein. Go to Florida Law Online for more and further explanation. Again, read carefully.

[Peachallie]

LE said she dumped the body soon after the killing so( probably the 20th is the first day they are looking at and the 27th the last possible date ) it makes much more sense she did it to keep her quiet or literally as a way to suffocate her. You make a good point about staging a kidnapping, for whom? Because obviously she was not counting on the body being found so why would she do all this staging? I think it is going to hurt her. I have even heard some defense attorneys, not all (Not Janie Weintraub of course LOL) say it really makes things worse for Casey that they found that tape wrapped that way. I was wondering, could the prosecutor use Perper as a kind of back up expert along with obviously Dr G? He says in his experience that tape means nothing but premeditation. He was very firm on it and his no nonsense approach might go along way. I like him because although he is on tv you can't change his mind and he does not try to dazzle with outrageous claims. If he does not know he says I don't know. If he does not think it can be found out, he just says so. I get the feeling he could care less whether he is on tv or in his living room, he would give the same answer.[/QUOTE]
**********************************************
I've read some speculation that she may have carried the body round with her for days. And, yes, there are other orifices that would have leaked body fluids. The duct tape makes little sense as a silencing mechanism if Casey intended to kill her and did. And has for grotesque, I've also read questions about the body tissue beneath the tape. Speculation that Casey used the tape to kill Caylee is natural then. It does indicate premeditation to me also.

[Gatordog]

Good post!

I am a little unsure of the story about George wanting something from the trunk. You said that happened on the 28th? How did she get the bag (if it was there) out of the trunk and into the woods 15 houses away without her father seeing anything? What was the date Cindy found Casey? (Sorry I am drawing a blank)

I fell asleep before the ball dropped. Old age :confused: Is it really 2009? If a tree fell in the forest and no one was there, did it make a sound?
I'm also hungry and I'm frying sticky potatoes as we speak. :beer:

It's 15 houses away but the street is not straight. The street goes straight for a few houses then it makes a turn and then there is another turn before you get to the end of the street. You make a right turn onto Suburban and then past the last house which is on Hopespring and Suburban, the bag was left in the woods. You cannot view the wooded area from the Antony home at all, you can't even see Suburban.

Geoge asked to get into the trunk on June 24 not 28. Caylee was supposedly last seen on June 16 by George. Cindy located her daughter on July 15. She was arrested on July 16.

Gator

[Gatordog]

I'm on the record for wanting the jury to have the option of the death penalty too, for what it's worth.

Just wondering why it's so difficult to understand that Casey could have used the duct tape to stage a kidnapping/murder?

ETA I read somewhere (The Caylee is missing site maybe) that Caylee weighed 45 pounds. That seems like an awful lot, but that's what I read.

I know nothing about children's growth but it's been reported that she was a tall girl for her age. So perhaps the weight is in the correct area.

Gator

[Gatordog]

[/U][/B]

Yes, yes and yes! George was a tidy guy according to his son Lee. Just like OJ was a tidy guy and that came up in trial to his benefit. Which reminds me that George was "not" a "sloppy thinker" which tells me he can lie well. (Just like OJ did.)

I don't see George as a good liar. Probably the only one in the family who cannot lie. When posed with a question that would cause him to lie, he would just lose his composure or temper and storm off rather than lie. He couldn't even lie when he said that the body in the car was not his grandaughter. He could not lie and say there was no body but he couldn't face whose body it was in that trunk.

Gator

[Peachallie]

Just curiously what kind of a lawyer are you that you are an expert in forensics and pharmacology? I am just curious. You did kind of change your tune from when they first found the tape and you said they would not get a first degree only a second degree. Did you look up felony murder perhaps?
**********************************
As have written, I post as an interested individual & am speculating as all who post here do. So, as you dislike speculation and resultant questions, why attempt to read them?


PS. Your weiner dog icon is adoranble. I love weiner dogs.

[Gatordog]

And I am glad I read your post before I commented because I was thinking the same thing, wait dead bodies do not vomit do they? LOL

The original question that I asked said - If the tape had been placed on Caylee's face while she was alive and then she vomited, could vomit still be on the tape? There was no implication in the question that she was dead.

Gator

[Gatordog]

That's a real possibility. (STILL cannot believe that G&C let Casey drive around with a broken gas gauge, and that driving around with gas cans in the car was safe for Caylee), but anyway, O2S is probably right that Casey's car wasn't actually in the garage:

GEORGE: Casey pops in the door. I hear the garage door open, here comes Casey. And I think I startled her sort of being there, because my car was inside the garage...

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0809/30/ng.01.html

I just read something about the squirrels and I've already forgotten. :punch:

My first car had a broken gas gauge and I drove that car for two years without running out of gas. You just track the amount of miles you've driven. There's no proof the gauge was actually broken - she just didn't want to pay for gas when she could get someone to bring it to her.

[Peachallie]

Alright Peach don't want to seem like I am heckling ya but aggravated manslaughter is not crimes committed after death to escape prosecution, hiding the body , the disposal of a body, lying to the police to escape prosecution are not under the heading of aggravated manslaughter. Not even close. Those are all separate crimes really. Aggravated manslaughter is when you knowingly and recklessly do something that you know can cause another's death and you do it anyway. And you kill them. Tons of drunken driving cases end this way and it has nothing to do with committing a crime after death to escape prosecution. You drive drunk,, you know you are doing something that is reckless and kill another , but because you did not intend to kill the person it is called manslaughter most of the time.

********************************************
Perhaps it is cognitive impairment rather than heckling.

I wrote that the state could get 30 years for agg. manslaughter and MORE from crimes committed after death. Obviously, manslaughter is a CAUSE of death. And yes, I have known drunk drivers to switch seats with a passenger after a crash, jump from a vehicle & pretend to have been hit BY the vehicle.

As the state dropped the option of death, I conclude they knew what they were doing. Noting it was before the body was found indicates incompetence on the part of the state.

Thus, I have am tried to think of reasons for the duct tape; duct tape before death indicates premeditation. Nothing else in the death seems to; Casey Anthony would have no need to keep the child quiet if her intent was to kill her.

Why then did they state drop the death penalty option?

I recently read the duct tape could have been to keep her quiet while Casey Anthony went from bar to bar to bar. But chloroform has also been said to serve that function. Which brings ME back to agg. manslaughter. Casey Anthony both administered chloroform to Caylee Anthony & used duct tape on her mouth so she could stay out with fellow bums longer. Why didn't she just hire a..................................(babysitter?)

So, what do your 30 years of experience that has obviously not included employment in the area lead you to conclude? So far, as Lockhorn wrote, I find the matter bewildering.

[tv]

Hi everyone :seeya:

Just an observation -- I was watching NG last night when Cindy's 911 call was being shown. They don't usually play the whole thing so I'd only heard it from beginning to end a couple of times. She's nearly hysterical during the call. You can hear the panic in the voice and hear her crying. It's really heartwrenching. That should have been the way Casey reacted also but we know that the only time she cries is when she's feeling sorry for herself.

Somehow Cindy did an about face where Casey is concerned. I can't make up my mind if Casey has told her some fantastic story that she's chosen to believe or if she's just in a bottomless pit of denial. I think the 911 tapes are the genuine Cindy. I don't know who she turned into after that but it's like the woman that made the 911 call doesn't exist anymore.

[Gatordog]

Thanks for straightening that out for me gator. So it sounds like she took the car to the dump sight. I can't imagine her carrying the bag on foot to the woods. I suppose she meant to move it later? Maybe?

Good morning.. it's a winter wonderland here. Getting some sun are ya? ;)
Grrr. my Floridian relatives are sending me pictures of lovely weather. It's torture I tell ya!

Hi Danagher :seeya: Yes we've had some great weather here. I had to put the heat on for a few minutes this morning. I love it when it's cold. People look at me likes I'm nuts when it reaches 60 degrees cause Im still in my shorts and tee shirts and everyone else has on hats and coats. I don't have to put a sweater on when I'm outside until it reaches 40. It's been in the 70's during the day this week.This weather makes the 95 degree summers tolerable.

[Gatordog]

Hi everyone :seeya:

Just an observation -- I was watching NG last night when Cindy's 911 call was being shown. They don't usually play the whole thing so I'd only heard it from beginning to end a couple of times. She's nearly hysterical during the call. You can hear the panic in the voice and hear her crying. It's really heartwrenching. That should have been the way Casey reacted also but we know that the only time she cries is when she's feeling sorry for herself.

Somehow Cindy did an about face where Casey is concerned. I can't make up my mind if Casey has told her some fantastic story that she's chosen to believe or if she's just in a bottomless pit of denial. I think the 911 tapes are the genuine Cindy. I don't know who she turned into after that but it's like the woman that made the 911 call doesn't exist anymore.

IMO - Cindy, in her heart could not accept that Caylee was dead, especially by her own daughter's hand. In her head, when she was being questioned by LE all she could hear was them trying to pin a murder rap on her daughter instead of trying to search for the kidnapper and Caylee, so she turned on LE. I think that she tried to keep info from the police regarding phone and credit card bills because she thought they would incriminate her daughter in the theft charges and were not related to the kidnapping and would reinforce the detective's belief that Caylee was dead and that they would not search for her. I could be wrong, I just hate to think that Cindy would turn her back on Caylee. I don't think she could. As much as I can't agree with the things she has done, I am keeping faith that she will be truthful and honest for Caylee in the days to come.

Gator

[Gatordog]

70's??? GROAN ~~~~~~ My bones are aching and the window is frosted over. Poor hubby dug the cars out yesterday and my driveway looks like a mirror of black ice. He just left for the city and I'm sitting here with my feet on the radiator. It's okay, enjoy the warm weather.. no honestly, I'm happy for ya. Anyway I take fish oil for my bones, it's good, :punch:

Hmm so ya turned the heat on did ya.. hmmm. ;)

You made me laugh. :D Yes, I put the heat on. Florida houses are made to keep the cold in and the heat out so it was about 66 degrees in here. It's actally 61 degrees outside right now. Better get another pair of shorts out.:tongue:

[Peachallie]

Personally since I have been catching up , I just have one comment, I don't understand why people make grandiose claims because people do eventually see through them. I am not accusing either just saying. You can always tell lawyers because they are able to explain the law without lots of copying and pasting. And I gotta tell you sometimes the copying and pasting does not match up with what is being said or trying to be proved in the post. I am not starting a pissing contest understand,. Just saying......

***************************************
No, non lawyers offer pre digested explanations; I've offered the actual LAWS so people can read them. And the law means what is held in each case; unless over turned on appeal. When I looked up physical trauma & agg. child abuse on Fastcase, I was surpised to find one case wherein a Florida court DID find agg. child abuse with no physical trauma.


The primary point however is that not all the bones have been found. There could be signs of physical trauma on the bones that have not been located.

[tv]

Good observation TV. I'm sure Cindy was hysterical and I'm more than sure she knew Casey did something to Caylee at the beginning. This is why they need immunity IMO. After the fact, Cindy was in complete denial. She had to go there. This creature of a daughter had laid blame on Cindy for Caylee's fate from day one. It was a masterful ploy to get Cindy off her case and on her own guilt which was brilliantly produced by Casey.

Cindy was paying for her control freak insults and attacks on Casey's flaws and Casey made sure she'd pay. I believe Cindy was very jealous of Casey. As has been discussed, there was some kind of let down for Casey as the daughter of Cindy Anthony and Casey reacted with all her might and all her sick mindedness. Touche' Mother Dearest!

Good horror flick eh?
IMO

Yep, Casey pretty much gave away her true feelings when she was in jail and said all anyone cared about was getting Caylee back. I think Casey was shocked to end up in jail because she thinks she's smarter than LE -- she thought everyone, including her parents, would believe her BS and it would eventually all go away. That's why she told the stupid stories about Universal, Juliette Lewis and Jeff Hopkins -- she wasn't prepared. I'm sorry if you guys have already discussed all this...just tell me to shut up and keep up! :tongue:

[Gatordog]

That is his story? He wanted to see if it was a place where teens hang out so he was taking photos of beer cars and stuff? There is nothing in this case to suggest teens had anything to do with this case at all. And even if he got the memo somehow that Kiomarie had said teens hang out, it just does not make sense this was his reason for being there. Was there going to be a debate between LE and defense at trial about whether teens hung out there at all? What difference would it make? No teens could have hung out there but Casey and her friends did years ago. This does not not make sense. Thanks for finding this article LOL even though the man in it, Dominic the Dumbo is a liar!If this was the kind of helpful stuff he was doing for the Anthonys no wonder nothing he told the Anthonys panned out. I don't believe him for one minute.PS Janie Weintraub my arch nemesis will be so disappointed, she and many others thought this tape was a defense gold mine and now they have taped over it!!

Skark, you hit the nail on the head. What in the world did a teenage hangout have to do with a kidnapping? We were made to believe that Kidfinders originally provided the private investigator to help find Zani and Caylee. Now we hear that in November he is investigating to find exculpatory evidence for the defense.:mad: What about Caylee? While everyone in Florida was busy photographing every little brown haired girl in the malls, this guy is looking for evidence that teenagers hung out behind the school as a teenager. If Dominic was paid any money from the find Caylee fund, he should give it back and all that money should go to TES.

Gator

[Gatordog]

You have to think about her position as a woman who adored her granddaughter but looking deeper, I have a problem with the fact that she didn't follow up on the nanny crapola long before Caylee died. I can't help but seek answers to the mystery of it all. I know love when I see it, so what I see is a woman who wanted her granddaughter to be a reflection of her worth as a woman. Her badge and her superficial lifestyle meant more to her than the child herself. At the end of the day, Caylee was a pawn. She was Cindy's property. That is what she is paying for now. It was all about Cindy and what Cindy wanted. She is as self absorbed as her daughter. I venture to say she was actually cruel to her daughter. She is to be pitied however. It's sad to watch so many lives destroyed. All ego driven folks self destruct. "Vanity is wind," so the proverb goes.

All my opinion.. forgive me. :(

What's there to forgive? You are right. This situation is very complex and I don't think there is one explanation that is 100 percent correct. I also cannot grasp how Cindy could not have any info on the babysitter. The only thing I can comment on is that someone here had mentioned long ago that if Cindy or George had asked for info, the Liar could have snapped back that she was Caylee's mother and no one else. My mother would have said fine, then go find someplace else to live, but these folks were no like that. IMO, they brought their children up without discipline or consequences.

Gator

[Gatordog]

The only thing that I don't understand about that is that when Casey ran out of gas, she and Tony got into the shed to get the gas cans, and then she rabbited out of his car to put the gas into her tank (presumably so he wouldn't smell the awful odor). So how is it that George got close enough to the car that day to almost get the shims/widgets/whatchamacallits but didn't' smell the odor? And wasn't the car in the garage? Wouldn't the confined space have magnified the odor?

Man, I just cannot help but wonder if George lied about this. Already have serious doubts that he saw Casey and Caylee on the 16th.

Different days. She ran out of gasoline on June 20th near her house and she and Tony broke into the shed. She went home and unexpectedly saw George on June 24th when she threw the gas tanks at him (the car was parked in the street). She ran out of gasoline at the Amscott on June 27 and it was towed on June30.

[Peachallie]

[QUOTE=Danagher;9149925]Predigested explanations? Alright I'll give you that some of us, (especially me) have opinions that may reiterate repeatedly. But hardly anyone is giving predigested explanations. Most posters here are looking at the obvious and saying so. I don't need a building to fall on me to know that Casey Anthony is guilty. FYI, I don't give a crap about the laws that may be taken advantage of in this case. I understand them and why they were implemented in our justice system. I'm thankful that they don't burn accused witches at the stake; certainly. But in this case there is no room for those laws that protect innocent people. She did it! Period!
************************************************
Actually I was referring to citations to those who write or babble to the media about laws and more often, cases with which they are not involved. People who post here may know as much or more than the media talking heads.


And yes, as an individual, I too believe Casey with be found guilty of some crime; though there is always a chance some explanation exists that makes her actions rational. Now, I want to know what level of homicide the state will settle on.*

As I've READ Baez is a media hound, the fact that he hasn't yipped more about the discovery leads me to think the discovery isn't helpful to the defense. As I am reading & learning however my opinions on some matters have changed. All in all, a horribly perplexing and tragic situation.


*Aggravated manslaughter is homicide in Florida.

[FDInLaw]

testing testing. Ah ha it works I have been trying to remember my user name for months and it hit me tonight. I have been following all of your post and have to say I have never seen a forum on this board that most people actually agree on the guilt of the mother. all of your post have been very informative and just want to say THANKS. I think I remember a few of you from a former forum on another Florida crime the ANS soga. Most of you have signed off for the night so I will be back tomorrow to discuss with all of you this most heart wrenching case.Welcome back! :seeya:

This certainly is a heart wrenching case. :rose:

[Amy]

Thanks for getting this, although I watched it the one thing I noticed in your post of it is that it was not Hoover who said we found Caylee, it was that Dominic Casey told Hoover this and Hoover dropped it at Leonards feet. Which is kind of interesting because I did not know anything about this Hoover guy but did not trust Dominic Casey at all, Dominic Casey was the one who supposedly told the Anthonys that everything Casey said turned out to be true. I also think he was the one supposedly watching the real kidnappers. I have also heard Dominic is linked to KidFinders network, which makes me think when you put it all together he has been stringing Cindy and George along telling them what they want to hear so he can get a paycheck out of this. Why would he tell Hoover they had quote found her and she was not alive and they needed to go get her and then drag Hoover along to film that specific area. I am very suspcious of this guy indeed and if I were LE I would get Dominic Caseys phone records and email around the time that he sent Hoover to film that area, even if it is about 600 yards away from where the body was found. And I would find out through those records or try to find out who sent Dominic Casey to the area a month prior to where Caylees body was found. Because unless they find out that Casey and Hoover filmed lots of areas, then something is up and the phone records and email and texts may be very helpful indeed.

The first I remember hearing the name Dominic Casey was @ JBPark when Padilla had the divers in. I THINK, tho, on the list of directors of KFN, when I looked @ it then, he was listed as the director of investigations or something of that sort. The list had been posted @ one time, with 3 open director positions (seems all the KFN people are directors of something, with no underlings working for them.) @ the time, there was a joke that Cindy, George and Lee could take the positions--one was something about event planning, I remember thinking, well, guess Cindy could take that, seeing as how Casey can't, being in jail and all. But, George, being ex-LE wouldn't get the investigator position, as it was already filled-by Dominic Casey.

Anyway, @ the park, Dennis Milstead of KFN was the guy in the face of the camera man, telling him to back off and all that. Then another guy appeared, I can't remember what he was doing or saying, but it was reported it was Dominic Casey, a PI w/KFN. I never even knew, until this all happened with the video, that he had ever been w/Baez, or even hired privately by the A's. I just assumed he was part of the "package" of KFN---they provided the billboard and flyers and things like that.

But, when I look back, also, it seems that KFN didn't provided a spokesman (like the Sund-Carrington Foundation provided a spokesperson for Sharon Rocha) but RECOMMENDED Garrison to the A's? So, perhaps they recommended D Casey to them for a PI? And, that LATER, he became the director of PI things in KFN? Odd, too, that AFTER Garrison went away, Michelle Bart OF KFN, became the spokesperson. I'm thinking that KFN didn't really have a PI, or someone who could be a spokesperson until way late in the game. I don't think they probably had much of anything except the mobile billboard and the ability to help develop flyers--because from all that I have read, they really haven't been involved in searching for missing children beyond the billboard and flyers. (I could be wrong, but that is how it seems.)

If all the A's have come up with really did come from D Casey (as opposed to their just SAYING their PI did this, said that) he needs to be strung up by his thumbnails. Have his PI license revoked. I DO have a problem that someone--a PI, of all people--would actually have knowledge that the child is dead, and knows WHERE she is, yet just takes freaking VIDEO's? Don't PI, lawyers, even John Q Public had an obligation to tell LE where the body is? But, it just FLOORS me that he would say he knows where the body is, but DOES NOT tell even HIS CLIENTS!!! How backwards and dishonest is THAT? If he was hot on the trail of the "kidnappers" WHY wouldn't he inform LE or FBI, especially when he was always just behind them? I have a BIG problem w/the professionalism, the integrity of this PI.

And, why would the A's not question the PI about not informing @ least the FBI (cuz, of course, they didn't trust LE) about the kidnapper's trail? Why would they not question the fact that he knew Caylee was dead, and where she was, but DID NOT call LE to investigate the scene? Unless, of course, he didn't tell them about the latter, as you mentioned, mu8shark, he wanted to milk this case for all he could get. Either way, he is VERY unprofessional, VERY shady, IMO.

[FDInLaw]

LE said she dumped the body soon after the killing so( probably the 20th is the first day they are looking at and the 27th the last possible date ) it makes much more sense she did it to keep her quiet or literally as a way to suffocate her. You make a good point about staging a kidnapping, for whom? Because obviously she was not counting on the body being found so why would she do all this staging? I think it is going to hurt her. I have even heard some defense attorneys, not all (Not Janie Weintraub of course LOL) say it really makes things worse for Casey that they found that tape wrapped that way. I was wondering, could the prosecutor use Perper as a kind of back up expert along with obviously Dr G? He says in his experience that tape means nothing but premeditation. He was very firm on it and his no nonsense approach might go along way. I like him because although he is on tv you can't change his mind and he does not try to dazzle with outrageous claims. If he does not know he says I don't know. If he does not think it can be found out, he just says so. I get the feeling he could care less whether he is on tv or in his living room, he would give the same answer.
**********************************************
I've read some speculation that she may have carried the body round with her for days. And, yes, there are other orifices that would have leaked body fluids. The duct tape makes little sense as a silencing mechanism if Casey intended to kill her and did. And has for grotesque, I've also read questions about the body tissue beneath the tape. Speculation that Casey used the tape to kill Caylee is natural then. It does indicate premeditation to me also.[/QUOTE]Good post. In my mind, the duct tape was most likely used to keep Caylee quiet but I appreciate reading other possible scenarios.

If it was a staged kidnapping, I don't get why Casey would dump the body so close to home in a place that she was known to bury pets. Makes no sense to me. IMO, Casey did not think everything through and was too confident that people would believe her lies. The mere fact that her own Mother stated concern that Casey might have hurt Caylee from the unset, is so telling. Casey's own family was impressed by her total disregard for Caylee's wellbeing. Sad, that no one stepped in to help Caylee. . . no doubt this will haunt a good number of people.

[Amy]

Thank you, Loretta! Just as you pulled it up, I was reading that whole piece.

Listen to this..

QUOTE: GEORGE A " I did not look in the trunk because the distance I was at - she just handed them to me and slammed the trunk." (here's your fkn cans)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
MOO
He did NOT get to smell the trunk he wasn't close enough and she purposely kept him back as we can tell, from her actions and her words. June 24th is when she was caught with the cans...approx. the 25th , next day, she started texting friends and telling friends different versions of the squirrel story. Strange . That leaves 2 more days before the car is left at Amscot, the 27th. She dumped Caylee between the 24th and the 27th. Caylee died on the 17th, and was probably in the trunk for those 7 or 8 days. either G almost caught her with Caylee in the trunk, or it was because of the slight smell.

That leftover duct tape was thrown out after it was used. It's been gone a Loooooooooooooog time!!! She may be stupid, but she aint crazy ;)

And there it is. George saying he DID NOT get close enough to the car to see inside the trunk. LATER, he changed the story to the fact that HE was the one to reach in the trunk and retrieve the cans. Something stupid (and illrelevant) is--did he ever get the darn widget?

[Gatordog]

And there it is. George saying he DID NOT get close enough to the car to see inside the trunk. LATER, he changed the story to the fact that HE was the one to reach in the trunk and retrieve the cans. Something stupid (and illrelevant) is--did he ever get the darn widget?

Never got the widget. The liar knew what he was looking for and it wasn't the widgets.

[Amy]

Okay here is my own opinion I think you will find LE thinks she dumped the body much sooner. When Padilla, (Not Leonard the other) spoke he said one of the things they knew was that she dumped the body soon after the killing. And I think, of course this is just my theory when Tony picked her on the 20th the day she ran out of gas , the first time not at Amscott, she was on the same street walking as where she dumped Caylee. I think that is pretty coincidental. I think she would not have risked Tony sniffing around her car and saying Casey what is the smell, lets look in the trunk , so I think she panicked on the 20th and ditched that body right away in a hell of a panic. I think on the 24th she did not want George at the back of the car, not because the body was still there but because she knew how he was about car mainteneance and if he would have smelled that, he would have grilled the hell out of her about that and even looked in there and seen the decomp fluid which had leaked and been like "Casey , what the hell?" So while the texting date makes sense, because it was before the car was at the tow yard, I calmly have another theory about her dumping the body much sooner. What a coincidence she ran out of gas on Chickasaw and Caylee was found at the crossroads of Chickasaw and something. Bet she did not plan for that.!!! And also the way LE said they believe she dumped it soon after the homicide. Just my theory.

As I read posts on various boards, it would seem some think the BODY had to have been in the trunk up to maybe even the 27th when the car was abandoned. IMO, the BODY would not have to have been in the car any longer than for some of the fluids to leak onto the carpet. Maybe Caylee was in the trunk for several days, or maybe she was placed in the trunk to be moved, and the fluids leaked. Just like, if you spill a jug of milk, or even a can of gas, even when the CONTAINER is removed, the LIQUID is still there, in the carpet. Body fluids, like milk, will start with a smell, but that smell gets worse as the days go on, especially if they are HOT days.

I agree that, on the 24th, it does not have to be that Caylee was in the trunk that Casey did not want George to see, but there was that smell, that stain, that would SURELY pique George's curiosity. I don't know HOW close he actually got to the car, but the smell on the 24th would not have been as bad as on the 27th, and certainly not as bad as on July 15 when George went to the towyard to get the car. The odor on the 24th and 27th must not have been so strong that it would be smelled unless one was IN the car, or the trunk was open, IMO. The towyard guy who pulled the car in did not notice the smell, and it seemed it was several days before Mr Burch first noticed the smell after it was in the yard. Which follows to reason that, the longer the fluid was in the car, even without the heat, the smell would get worse until it was noticeable outside the car. IMO

[Amy]

Anthony’s PI: no videos of the site where remains found
Last Edited: Thursday, 01 Jan 2009, 9:54 PM EST
Created: Thursday, 01 Jan 2009, 9:54 PM EST

SEMINOLE COUNTY, Fla. (WOFL FOX 35, Orlando) -- As reports circulate in the media that two private investigators who worked for the Anthony family may have visited the site where Caylee Anthony’s remains where eventually found, one of the investigators is coming forward to distance himself from the other.

2 year old Caylee Anthony was missing since June of last year, her remains were found in November.

George and Cindy Anthony are the grandparents of the toddler. Caylee's mother Casey Anthony sets in jail accused of murder.

Published reports said this week that the private investigators had made videotapes they took while in the area where the remains were found, before they were actually found.

Dominic Casey of D&A Investigations said Thursday that James Hoover, the other private investigator associated with this case, and the man who is alleged by some to have made the videotapes, is not employed by his agency.
VIDEO: Anthony’s PI: no videos of the site where remains found Casey said Hoover simply showed up at the Anthony's door one day and offered to help them deal with protesters free of charge, and the Anthony’s allowed it

According to Casey he's the only private investigator working on the case for the Anthony's and admitted he went to the site where the remains were found November 15th.

"I went out there to determine if it really was a place where teens hung out,” Casey said.

Casey added that he was taking photos to document information found in discovery documents that stated it was a teen hang out. He said he was looking for items such as beer bottles, makeshift chairs and similar items.

While he was there, Casey said that James Hoover snuck up on him.

"As I turned around, Hoover was standing there with a video camera,” Casey said. “I said, 'What are you doing here?' He said, ‘I thought you might want help.' I said, ‘James, that's completely inappropriate’."

Casey took photos of the area and said he's turned over his photos to the Anthony's attorney, to give to prosecutors.

According to Casey, James Hoover now claims his video no longer exists, that he taped over it.

"I would be interested to talking with James Hoover myself," Casey said. "I have over 40 phone calls in to him and he has not returned my phone calls."

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=8181718&version=2&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=1.1.1

So, possibly the villian in this episode is the Hoover guy, and not D Casey? That Hoover is lying about what D Casey told him? Or, I guess it could be CYA by D Casey. The trouble is, there has been so much misinformation, half-truths in this case it's hard to separate the wheat from the chaffe.

[Amy]

>>According to Casey, James Hoover now claims his video no longer exists, that he taped over it.

Now wait just a rootin tootin minute. Didn't one of the TV stations report that they had seen the video (or part of it) and that it looked authentic?

Mr Leonard Padilla, Bounty Hunter extraordinaire, says on NG that HE had personally seen the video. Now, WHEN did he see it? He says he talked w/Hoover who gave him the info that D CASEY told him blah blah blah, dead body, we've got to get it. My question would be--WHEN did LP talk to Hoover? HOW did he and Hoover meet? Did LP look Hoover up, or did Hoover go to LP, his being so involved in the case and all.

AND, WHEN was the video taped over? WHY would Hoover tape over this information. WHY wouldn't LP be going to LE or even spouting about it on NG @ the time he saw the video? One could deduce that Hoover is just saying he taped over the video--but how could he have been trying to sell it to some media outlet? Did he just tape over it last week? Again, I can't get around WHY he would tape over it!!! This all just gets weirder and weirder.

I must say, even tho LP does seem to hit some points head on, he has so much conjecture and wild ideas and wild stories that it gets harder and harder to believe much of what he says. Especially when he DOES sound like the things he is saying are FACTS, and that @ some point said he always says this is his opinion, not FACT. Which he DOES NOT always say, well, it could be this, or that---he starts out---IT WENT DOWN THIS WAY. CASEY DID THIS AND CINDY SAID THAT AND THE CAR WAS HERE, ETC ETC ETC. When one listens to him on NG, he makes it sound like he is IN THE KNOW of the FACTS of what went on.

[Amy]

That phone call from Caylee stinks to high heaven. If it was from "Private", HTF did Casey know that it was Zenaida who had Caylee?

Lying POS

I remember W-A-Y back in the beginning, it must have been a Casey told Cindy story where Cindy was saying that Caylee had "called" Casey (it must have been this time, can't remember any other ones) and she was able to do that without knowing the phone number because the number was programmed in and she just had to push a button.

So, it would have to have been the "stolen" phone she called from, what other phone would Caylee have had access to that would have Casey's number programmed into it? I don't know, maybe leaving that phone w/Casey every day was how Casey was able to contact Nanny? And, I guess nanny could contact Casey w/it, too, instead of using her own, which seemed to be changed fairly often. OR, did Nanny take that phone away from Casey when she knocked her down and took Caylee? And, gee--wouldn't it have been easy enough to track where Caylee had been taken, if LE could have followed the pings of THAT phone?

I'm guessing they didn't follow the pings because 1) there is no nanny. 2) there was no other phone. IMO

[FDInLaw]

The scenario that fits best in my mind is that Casey accidentally killed Caylee with chloroform. In shock over the matter, Casey left the body in the truck until it was physically obvious that she could not ignore it any longer. In the humid, Florida heat this would only take a few days. Otherwise, if this was a calculated homicide, what idiot does not plan what to do with the body in advance and act upon it immediately? There was enough evidence that Caylee's dead body was in the trunk for the State to press charges. . . I just do get how this fumble was planned out. It is possible that Casey intentionally killed Caylee in a rage or something. . . but plotted out??? I'm not buying it.

IMO George knew in his gut something was wrong when he helped clean-up the trunk. This alone is good reason to seek immunity.

Just thinking out loud. . . MOO

[Amy]

Okay this makes no sense to me unless somebody had just dumped that body or she was moved. Because why would it help if the body was found on Aug 11, 12 or 13 even if Casey was in jail. It is not like police are going to say Oh my since we found on the 11th it must mean it was dumped just yesterday and Casey was in jail. If that body had been there, LE would still not assume it was left after Casey was in jail, only that they had not found it for a while. I don't get this theory at all as to why it would be so helpful to be found on those dates. Does this make sense what I am saying or asking ??

Yes, it makes sense. The "the body had to be found while Casey was in jail" stuff was from Lenny Padilla, one of his "theories" he expounded on, on NG. Which, after the body was found, segued into the Daisy Chain garbage. I haven't heard anyone else thinking it was a GOOD theory. IMO

[Amy]

Never got the widget. The liar knew what he was looking for and it wasn't the widgets.

Thanks. Some of the little details seem to get lost in the big picture. Like I said, tho, I imagine the widget was a small, meaningless piece of detail-and for some reason, small meaningless details drive me nuts!!! lol

[javahog]

The scenario that fits best in my mind is that Casey accidentally killed Caylee with chloroform. In shock over the matter, Casey left the body in the truck until it was physically obvious that she could not ignore it any longer. In the humid, Florida heat this would only take a few days. Otherwise, if this was a calculated homicide, what idiot does not plan what to do with the body in advance and act upon it immediately? There was enough evidence that Caylee's dead body was in the trunk for the State to press charges. . . I just do get how this fumble was planned out. It is possible that Casey intentionally killed Caylee in a rage or something. . . but plotted out??? I'm not buying it.

IMO George knew in his gut something was wrong when he helped clean-up the trunk. This alone is good reason to seek immunity.

Just thinking out loud. . . MOO


I think so, too. And little miss disorganized procrastinated on job 1, body disposal, since she was reveling in her newfound freedom. Then it could no longer be ignored, as the club rats would soon notice the smell of death on her, making it hard to "score" except with necrophiliacs. That and running out of gas by where the body was found temporarily "solved" the problem

George at least "knew" in that first police interview where he vomited about the smell. It wasn't just the smell-imo he knew WHO that smell was. He knew his daughter had made carrion of her, and vomited. So I can see the immunity request, since withholding any info after that could be obstruction...I think Cindy would have covered up any info that would lead LE down the "wrong" path, looking for a "dead" Caylee.

I think now they have turned on Casey. She has destroyed everything. (And I don't blame Cindy for telling Casey she was a bad daughter and mother. Cindy was right!)

all imos and moos!

[javahog]

Yes, it makes sense. The "the body had to be found while Casey was in jail" stuff was from Lenny Padilla, one of his "theories" he expounded on, on NG. Which, after the body was found, segued into the Daisy Chain garbage. I haven't heard anyone else thinking it was a GOOD theory. IMO

Nancy Grace's producer should have them put IMO and MOO in Padilla's lower third to help distinguish fact from conjecture, IMO and MOO.

[shadydaisy]

I think so, too. And little miss disorganized procrastinated on job 1, body disposal, since she was reveling in her newfound freedom. Then it could no longer be ignored, as the club rats would soon notice the smell of death on her, making it hard to "score" except with necrophiliacs. That and running out of gas by where the body was found temporarily "solved" the problem

George at least "knew" in that first police interview where he vomited about the smell. It wasn't just the smell-imo he knew WHO that smell was. He knew his daughter had made carrion of her, and vomited. So I can see the immunity request, since withholding any info after that could be obstruction...I think Cindy would have covered up any info that would lead LE down the "wrong" path, looking for a "dead" Caylee.

I think now they have turned on Casey. She has destroyed everything. (And I don't blame Cindy for telling Casey she was a bad daughter and mother. Cindy was right!)

all imos and moos!

He knew, he just didn't want to know. I also believe he knew what he was doing when he cleaned out the trunk of the car. They both knew, they just couldn't bring themselves to face it. The trunk must have smelled to high heaven.

Slightly off topic - I live on a small farm and unfortunately, occasionally, have dead lambs and sick feral cats who come to my property to die. What makes me look for a dead cat is the smell. If they wander into the barn and die and it's summer, the smell of a dead 10-15lb cat can knock you off your feet. If you don't find they quickly, once they get through the rigor stage, it's a soupy, maggoty mess. I don't see how Cindy could have washed those pants she found in the car and pretended there was nothing unusual.

[lorettalockhorn]

My first car had a broken gas gauge and I drove that car for two years without running out of gas. You just track the amount of miles you've driven. There's no proof the gauge was actually broken - she just didn't want to pay for gas when she could get someone to bring it to her.

My impression is that George is pretty obsessive about maintenance and it has been reported that he maintained the vehicles. It make no sense to me that he wouldn't have either fixed the gas gauge or had the gauge repaired professionally; it's just not safe to be driving around in constant danger of running out of gas, especially with a toddler in the car. It's also not safe to drive around with gasoline or even empty gas cans in the car.

[lorettalockhorn]

********************************************
Perhaps it is cognitive impairment rather than heckling.

I wrote that the state could get 30 years for agg. manslaughter and MORE from crimes committed after death. Obviously, manslaughter is a CAUSE of death. And yes, I have known drunk drivers to switch seats with a passenger after a crash, jump from a vehicle & pretend to have been hit BY the vehicle.

As the state dropped the option of death, I conclude they knew what they were doing. Noting it was before the body was found indicates incompetence on the part of the state.

Thus, I have am tried to think of reasons for the duct tape; duct tape before death indicates premeditation. Nothing else in the death seems to; Casey Anthony would have no need to keep the child quiet if her intent was to kill her.

Why then did they state drop the death penalty option?

I recently read the duct tape could have been to keep her quiet while Casey Anthony went from bar to bar to bar. But chloroform has also been said to serve that function. Which brings ME back to agg. manslaughter. Casey Anthony both administered chloroform to Caylee Anthony & used duct tape on her mouth so she could stay out with fellow bums longer. Why didn't she just hire a..................................(babysitter?)

So, what do your 30 years of experience that has obviously not included employment in the area lead you to conclude? So far, as Lockhorn wrote, I find the matter bewildering.

Did The State actually drop the death penalty? Or simply announce that they would not seek it?

[lorettalockhorn]

Different days. She ran out of gasoline on June 20th near her house and she and Tony broke into the shed. She went home and unexpectedly saw George on June 24th when she threw the gas tanks at him (the car was parked in the street). She ran out of gasoline at the Amscott on June 27 and it was towed on June30.

Yes. And I just don't believe for a second that if George got very close to the car that he didn't smell the odor if Caylee's body had been decomposing in the trunk since circa the 16th. I think the man is a liar. I think the whole family lies.

[lorettalockhorn]

The first I remember hearing the name Dominic Casey was @ JBPark when Padilla had the divers in. I THINK, tho, on the list of directors of KFN, when I looked @ it then, he was listed as the director of investigations or something of that sort. The list had been posted @ one time, with 3 open director positions (seems all the KFN people are directors of something, with no underlings working for them.) @ the time, there was a joke that Cindy, George and Lee could take the positions--one was something about event planning, I remember thinking, well, guess Cindy could take that, seeing as how Casey can't, being in jail and all. But, George, being ex-LE wouldn't get the investigator position, as it was already filled-by Dominic Casey.

Anyway, @ the park, Dennis Milstead of KFN was the guy in the face of the camera man, telling him to back off and all that. Then another guy appeared, I can't remember what he was doing or saying, but it was reported it was Dominic Casey, a PI w/KFN. I never even knew, until this all happened with the video, that he had ever been w/Baez, or even hired privately by the A's. I just assumed he was part of the "package" of KFN---they provided the billboard and flyers and things like that.

But, when I look back, also, it seems that KFN didn't provided a spokesman (like the Sund-Carrington Foundation provided a spokesperson for Sharon Rocha) but RECOMMENDED Garrison to the A's? So, perhaps they recommended D Casey to them for a PI? And, that LATER, he became the director of PI things in KFN? Odd, too, that AFTER Garrison went away, Michelle Bart OF KFN, became the spokesperson. I'm thinking that KFN didn't really have a PI, or someone who could be a spokesperson until way late in the game. I don't think they probably had much of anything except the mobile billboard and the ability to help develop flyers--because from all that I have read, they really haven't been involved in searching for missing children beyond the billboard and flyers. (I could be wrong, but that is how it seems.)

If all the A's have come up with really did come from D Casey (as opposed to their just SAYING their PI did this, said that) he needs to be strung up by his thumbnails. Have his PI license revoked. I DO have a problem that someone--a PI, of all people--would actually have knowledge that the child is dead, and knows WHERE she is, yet just takes freaking VIDEO's? Don't PI, lawyers, even John Q Public had an obligation to tell LE where the body is? But, it just FLOORS me that he would say he knows where the body is, but DOES NOT tell even HIS CLIENTS!!! How backwards and dishonest is THAT? If he was hot on the trail of the "kidnappers" WHY wouldn't he inform LE or FBI, especially when he was always just behind them? I have a BIG problem w/the professionalism, the integrity of this PI.

And, why would the A's not question the PI about not informing @ least the FBI (cuz, of course, they didn't trust LE) about the kidnapper's trail? Why would they not question the fact that he knew Caylee was dead, and where she was, but DID NOT call LE to investigate the scene? Unless, of course, he didn't tell them about the latter, as you mentioned, mu8shark, he wanted to milk this case for all he could get. Either way, he is VERY unprofessional, VERY shady, IMO.

Anyone associated with Kidfinders strikes me as shady and unprofessional. Milford, Bart, D Casey, the whole lot. As much as I almost abhor G&C, I do think that the Kidfinder people took advantage of G&C's denial and disorientation in this situation to latch onto the immensity of this case hoping that it would somehow legitimatize the organization. The Anthonys are like carrion attracting vultures.

[Justice Denied?]

That phone call from Caylee stinks to high heaven. If it was from "Private", HTF did Casey know that it was Zenaida who had Caylee?

Lying POS

An odd thought just struck me. If both Zenaida and Caylee were missing, why didn't Casey think that something bad had happened to both of them? Why did she just assume that Zenaida kidnapped Casey?

[abbra]

I don't need a building to fall on me to know that Casey Anthony is guilty. FYI, I don't give a crap about the laws that may be taken advantage of in this case
. She did it! Period!

Um, er, ah, she's in jail? She waited 31 days? She led the police on a lie run?
She abandoned her car? She didn't have any diapers or clothes for Caylee in her stuff at Tony's apartment? The car showed signs of decomp? She is the only one who drove that car? She was searching for Caylee in a dirty dance club? There is no Nanny?

She is, gavel slam down .... GUILTY!

AMEN AND AMEN Danny... I can't wait to hear Jose Baez twist Caseys web of lies to make Casey look innocent but judging by the tapes police have of interviewing Casey, G&C, Lee and others and the other evidence police have this Lyin Party Girl will be going away for a long time. She will be able to party with Big Bertha and the " guys" once they slap her behind in general population. Maybe they will transfer her up to Amy Fishers favorite prison up here in NY. I read in my local paper that those gals love a good time !

[socaldiva]

An odd thought just struck me. If both Zenaida and Caylee were missing, why didn't Casey think that something bad had happened to both of them? Why did she just assume that Zenaida kidnapped Casey?


That's a great question! Why didn't she call the local hospitals to see if there had been an accident? Why assume a kidnapping had taken place?

[abbra]

An odd thought just struck me. If both Zenaida and Caylee were missing, why didn't Casey think that something bad had happened to both of them? Why did she just assume that Zenaida kidnapped Casey?

Didn't Casey tell the police and G&C that Zannys gang knocked her down on the ground?

[lorettalockhorn]

An odd thought just struck me. If both Zenaida and Caylee were missing, why didn't Casey think that something bad had happened to both of them? Why did she just assume that Zenaida kidnapped Casey?

Well, she didn't assume Zenaida kidnapped Caylee. Remember her second story to LE? That Zenaida and her sister knocked her down at JBP and took Caylee? But I see your point (after reading again); for whatever reason she didn't want to think that Zenaida had been harmed. She needed for everyone except LE to be spinning their wheels looking for Zenaida and Caylee alive.

[abbra]

By the way Good Afternoon All.. Loretta looks like you and I were thinking the same thing about Zanny knocking Casey Down.

[lorettalockhorn]

Well, back to the duct tape for the umpty umpteenth time. I think Casey researched the missing children sites and learned how to make chloroform and created Zenaida long before Caylee went missing because she planned to take Nan's sunshine away, and make Zenaida the scapegoat so that she could be the bereaved struggling single mother and get back into G&C's good graces. She was able to somehow convince Cindy that Zenaida existed (and it probably wasn't hard considering that Cindy didn't give a rat's arse and never checked Zenaida out). The duct tape was wrapped around Caylee's head to make her disappearance look like a kidnapping, to keep Caylee from screaming, and maybe even to keep from having to look at her. I'd be interested to know if the duct tape was put over Caylee's eyes to keep her from seeing Casey, but I guess we'll never know about that. Casey was able to convince Cindy that she had kept the kidnapping a secret and had conducted her own investigation, because the media coverage would get Caylee killed. And Cindy, being much like her spawn, even parroted that thought aloud. I think G&C knowingly went along with the kidnapping theory and helped destroy evidence of Casey's culpability out of guilt and shame for having let Caylee down. And now they need immunity for their part in obfuscating the true issues here. That Casey is murderous. That they created a monster.

I think Caylee was dumped in The Zone to make it appear as though Zenaida was framing Casey after having used her key to avail herself of Caylee's storybook, and whatever Caylee was wrapped in and any other articles that tie to the Anthonys' house.

Maybe what we'll learn from the other half of the story is, exactly why and when Zenaida went from loving Caylee to the point that she provided for her, and exactly what her motive for the kidnapping was. That's assuming that Baez is going to stick to the ridiculous story when Casey goes to trial.

I also think this propensity that the Anthonys have for attracting and attaching themselves to such seedy, sleazy characters as Kidfinders says a lot about what they consider to be valuable in this world. It's not about trust and earnestness for them. It's about dog and pony shows. It's about Toys R Us in the back yard.

[abbra]

For as Evil and Cunning as Casey Anthony is she is also stupid! I believe that George and Cindy knew from the get-go that Caylee was dead because of the smell in Caseys car. Both are professionals who have worked around corpses before.
Have you ever noticed how frustrated and angry Cindy Looks? There is definately some anger issues there. I don't feel sorry for G or Cindy because they were Caseys enablers so they helped make her into the monster that she is. Those jailhouse tapes of the Anthonys and Casey just make me shake my head. Instead of confronting Casey about Caylees demise the Anthonys are softsoaping her with verbal affections and affirmations that whatever Casey is saying is the truth and that they believe her even though they know deep down what Casey is telling them is a lie. Cindy is especially looking to put all the blame on others for Caylees disappearance while ignoring all the facts and the truth that Casey is lying to them about what happened to Caylee. Brother Lee is just as disfunctional, especially with his signaled chit chat with Casey.. trying to be secretive in his Leespeak to Casey- Notice Cindy is the same way with her facial expressions and verbage when talking to Casey. Everything is so secretive yet Cindy was the one who called police to tell them Caylee was missing and that Caseys car smelled of a dead body smell.
Cindy and Lee are guilty of obstruction of justice - theres no doubt about it. I believe George spoke honestly in the tapes where police were interviewing him but then he is guilty of whitewashing his statements since Cindy I assume saw the tapes of his questioning by police and coerced him into changing his story.

POOR LITTLE CAYLEE NEVER HAD A CHANCE WITH ALL THE CRAP GOING ON IN THE ANTHONY HOME.

If I was younger I would have given my heart to have had a little beautiful girl like Caylee especially since my 19 yr old daughter and only child was killed by a drunk driver 12 yrs ago. Caylee had big eyes like my Lynnie , Eyes that could melt an ice cream on a snowy day.

What goes around comes around and it can't come soon enough for Casey Anthony.

[Justice Denied?]

The scenario that fits best in my mind is that Casey accidentally killed Caylee with chloroform. In shock over the matter, Casey left the body in the truck until it was physically obvious that she could not ignore it any longer. In the humid, Florida heat this would only take a few days. Otherwise, if this was a calculated homicide, what idiot does not plan what to do with the body in advance and act upon it immediately? There was enough evidence that Caylee's dead body was in the trunk for the State to press charges. . . I just do get how this fumble was planned out. It is possible that Casey intentionally killed Caylee in a rage or something. . . but plotted out??? I'm not buying it.

IMO George knew in his gut something was wrong when he helped clean-up the trunk. This alone is good reason to seek immunity.

Just thinking out loud. . . MOO

So are you now thinking that Caylee's body was never in the back yard where the cadaver dogs alerted?

[abbra]

George should have been suspicious when he went to get whatever/gascans out of Caseys Trunk and she got all testy and angry with him. Anyone with a brain would be asking themselves why Casey was getting in a mood and having a fit about her Dad going to get anything out of her car when her father just wanted to help her. Wasn't he suppose to be a police investigator at one time or another?

[abbra]

Goes to show you how stupid she was about her alibi's. First she dropped her off at Sawgrass, oh no, I mean I met them in the park and they kicked my a** and took Caylee. Where's the damn note? I wouldn't have let that out of my possession! I would have brought it straight to LE and my family. You can't party and search for your child at the same time :rolleyes:.

She's an asswipe, besides being a Bad liar. If she was dealing with anyone who had half a brain, Someone , out of them all would have had a feeling about something.

Don'tyathink?

LOL and so right Old Soul!

[Justice Denied?]

Oooooof!!!! Excellent! Are you twice removed from Sherlock Holmes? No? How about Watson?

No, no famous detective relatives. Just a lot of common sense and an interest in this type of case. I read a lot and most of the time I can't figure out the plot until the end.:D

[Gatordog]

Good afternoon super sleuths!

Joshua Perper stated the body would have to be in the trunk about 3 days for the decomp to start. The smell, the fluids would of course, start off at a lesser level than, say, 5 days later. I'm thinking she had Caylee in there for 7 or 8 days...dumbass figured since she bagged her, and it wouldn't be noticable. By then it became very noticable (24th-25th) and she had to lose the bag. Her squirrel story started around then. Even she couldn't take driving the damn car :flamemad:

Did you heard last night on NG, the guy who started reaming LP about the video and the info about the video? Called LP a liar. LP says to call Nick Savage of the FBI, he can back up Padilla, becausewhen Padilla found out, he called Savage and told him about it, to look into it.

I think Perper said the body had to be in the car for three days for that level of smell to occur. I think in the Florida summer heat, a body would start the decomp process within hours.

[Justice Denied?]

Didn't Casey tell the police and G&C that Zannys gang knocked her down on the ground?

Yes, that was the second story she told. The first was she dropped Caylee off at Sawgrass apartments.

[Gatordog]

Just thinking out loud here. I feel the death was intentional. What do you think about this scenario, I'll refer to the liar as CA. George sees CA and Caylee leave the house close to 1 p.m. George goes to work and CA and Caylee return to the house at 2 pm. CA tells Caylee to put on her bathing suit because they're going swimming. CA takes Caylee either to the pool or to the bathtub and puts the duct tape on her mouth and proceeds to drown her. She either takes the bedsheet off of Caylee's bed or wraps her in a towel. She plans to make it look like an accidental drowning but can't get the tape off easily. Cindy gets home between 4 and 4:30 so she starts calling to see if she's on the way home - no answer. She starts to panic as she's running out of time. She takes the wrapped body and tries to hide it in the sandbox but she doesn't fit so she put her in the playhouse. She leaves the house at 4 pm to meet Tony for her date. She goes back after two days but finds the body is already badly decomposed and has to be moved. She borrows the shovel to lift the body and puts it in a garbage bag and then puts Caylee in the trunk. She takes the shovel and soaks it in the cholorinated pool to kill the smell and dries it off, leaving no prints on the shovel.

The duct tape was put on to prevent anyone hearing the screaming. It stuck to her hair and skin and wasn't easy to get off so she left it thinking she could take it off later. Explains the swimming suit. If Caylee had her book with her, it could have gotten wet with the splashing so CA put it with the body to dispose of it.

Gator

[Gatordog]

Well, she didn't assume Zenaida kidnapped Caylee. Remember her second story to LE? That Zenaida and her sister knocked her down at JBP and took Caylee? But I see your point (after reading again); for whatever reason she didn't want to think that Zenaida had been harmed. She needed for everyone except LE to be spinning their wheels looking for Zenaida and Caylee alive.

The liar told that second story to her parents way after the first story. She probably had lots of time to think about it in jail and realized there were too many holes in it, just like why didn't she check hospitals. So she created a second story where she witnesses Caylee being taken.

Gator

[lorettalockhorn]

For as Evil and Cunning as Casey Anthony is she is also stupid! I believe that George and Cindy knew from the get-go that Caylee was dead because of the smell in Caseys car. Both are professionals who have worked around corpses before.
Have you ever noticed how frustrated and angry Cindy Looks? There is definately some anger issues there. I don't feel sorry for G or Cindy because they were Caseys enablers so they helped make her into the monster that she is. Those jailhouse tapes of the Anthonys and Casey just make me shake my head. Instead of confronting Casey about Caylees demise the Anthonys are softsoaping her with verbal affections and affirmations that whatever Casey is saying is the truth and that they believe her even though they know deep down what Casey is telling them is a lie. Cindy is especially looking to put all the blame on others for Caylees disappearance while ignoring all the facts and the truth that Casey is lying to them about what happened to Caylee. Brother Lee is just as disfunctional, especially with his signaled chit chat with Casey.. trying to be secretive in his Leespeak to Casey- Notice Cindy is the same way with her facial expressions and verbage when talking to Casey. Everything is so secretive yet Cindy was the one who called police to tell them Caylee was missing and that Caseys car smelled of a dead body smell.
Cindy and Lee are guilty of obstruction of justice - theres no doubt about it. I believe George spoke honestly in the tapes where police were interviewing him but then he is guilty of whitewashing his statements since Cindy I assume saw the tapes of his questioning by police and coerced him into changing his story.

POOR LITTLE CAYLEE NEVER HAD A CHANCE WITH ALL THE CRAP GOING ON IN THE ANTHONY HOME.

If I was younger I would have given my heart to have had a little beautiful girl like Caylee especially since my 19 yr old daughter and only child was killed by a drunk driver 12 yrs ago. Caylee had big eyes like my Lynnie , Eyes that could melt an ice cream on a snowy day.

What goes around comes around and it can't come soon enough for Casey Anthony.

Cannot find a single nit to pick in this post!

Sorry for your loss. Godspeed

[lorettalockhorn]

Right, common sense. This case seems so devoid of that so it's tuff to keep a grip on it. That's why I keep reading this board. Thank you JD.

This case and the scenario put forth by the defense as we know it at the present time is moronic. The jury will use its own wisdom to come to a conclusion and Casey will suffer its ire. G&C's own idiotic part in the coverup of this crime is unforgivable.

[lorettalockhorn]

Just thinking out loud here. I feel the death was intentional. What do you think about this scenario, I'll refer to the liar as CA. George sees CA and Caylee leave the house close to 1 p.m. George goes to work and CA and Caylee return to the house at 2 pm. CA tells Caylee to put on her bathing suit because they're going swimming. CA takes Caylee either to the pool or to the bathtub and puts the duct tape on her mouth and proceeds to drown her. She either takes the bedsheet off of Caylee's bed or wraps her in a towel. She plans to make it look like an accidental drowning but can't get the tape off easily. Cindy gets home between 4 and 4:30 so she starts calling to see if she's on the way home - no answer. She starts to panic as she's running out of time. She takes the wrapped body and tries to hide it in the sandbox but she doesn't fit so she put her in the playhouse. She leaves the house at 4 pm to meet Tony for her date. She goes back after two days but finds the body is already badly decomposed and has to be moved. She borrows the shovel to lift the body and puts it in a garbage bag and then puts Caylee in the trunk. She takes the shovel and soaks it in the cholorinated pool to kill the smell and dries it off, leaving no prints on the shovel.

The duct tape was put on to prevent anyone hearing the screaming. It stuck to her hair and skin and wasn't easy to get off so she left it thinking she could take it off later. Explains the swimming suit. If Caylee had her book with her, it could have gotten wet with the splashing so CA put it with the body to dispose of it.

Gator

Was the swimsuit found with Caylee's remains? (Sorry, I can't remember exactly what has been reported found from the discovery scene.)

The liar told that second story to her parents way after the first story. She probably had lots of time to think about it in jail and realized there were too many holes in it, just like why didn't she check hospitals. So she created a second story where she witnesses Caylee being taken.

Gator

It wouldn't surprise me one bit if G&C helped her concoct that story.

[One2Snoop]

Investigator Denies Finding Caylee's Remains
Family P.I. Says He Cannot Know For Sure If Remains Were In Area In Nov.

POSTED: 3:28 pm EST January 2, 2009
UPDATED: 3:57 pm EST January 2, 2009

A former bodyguard for Casey Anthony has addressed accusations that he knew where Caylee Anthony’s remains were before they were found in December.

Dominic Casey, a private investigator, is still in the inner circle of the Anthony family and he has blasted reports that in November, while searching the area where Caylee’s remains were later found, he came across the remains himself.

"Had I the misfortune of stumbling across any remains the first thing I would have done is, I would have prayed," Casey said. "The second thing I would have done is stayed at the location and called 911."

On Nov. 15, Casey said he walked the same general wooded area where Caylee’s remains were later found. He said he was in the area to try to substantiate a sworn statement from one of Casey Anthony’s friends, which said that the area was a known hangout of Anthony’s when she was a teenager.

Casey Anthony is charged with Caylee's murder.

Casey said he took photos of the bottles, tires and trash in the area, much of which was taken by investigators when the remains were found a month later.

Casey said he feels there is no way to tell if the remains were there at the time based on what he saw and his footage.

Casey’s walk through the woods was recorded by another private investigator, James Hoover. Casey, along with multiple other sources, said Hoover is trying to sell the forage to various media organizations as proof that Caylee’s remains were not in the area in November. Casey said Hoover’s claims are false.

A sheriff’s spokesman said this week that the sheriff’s office would like to see the tape, but he would not verify if Hoover had given it to them.

Phone calls to Hoover were not returned. Casey said he plans to pursue legal action against Hoover for making false claims.

"I find it appalling that someone would profit from a missing child. It sickens me," Casey said.

http://www.wesh.com/news/18401020/detail.html

[Gatordog]

Was the swimsuit found with Caylee's remains? (Sorry, I can't remember exactly what has been reported found from the discovery scene.)



It wouldn't surprise me one bit if G&C helped her concoct that story.

Yes, the bathing suit was supposed to have been found in the bag.

[One2Snoop]

NANCY GRACE

Caylee Anthony First 24 Hours
Aired January 1, 2009 - 20:00:00 ET

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0901/01/ng.01.html

[One2Snoop]

Yes, the bathing suit was supposed to have been found in the bag.

Wasn't there a dress too?

[mu8shark]

The original question that I asked said - If the tape had been placed on Caylee's face while she was alive and then she vomited, could vomit still be on the tape? There was no implication in the question that she was dead.

Gator Gator I was not replying to your question but the answer that was given of somebody else's. Sorry for the confusion but I did not read it that you stated she was dead in your post at all.

[mu8shark]

********************************************
Perhaps it is cognitive impairment rather than heckling.

I wrote that the state could get 30 years for agg. manslaughter and MORE from crimes committed after death. Obviously, manslaughter is a CAUSE of death. And yes, I have known drunk drivers to switch seats with a passenger after a crash, jump from a vehicle & pretend to have been hit BY the vehicle.

As the state dropped the option of death, I conclude they knew what they were doing. Noting it was before the body was found indicates incompetence on the part of the state.

Thus, I have am tried to think of reasons for the duct tape; duct tape before death indicates premeditation. Nothing else in the death seems to; Casey Anthony would have no need to keep the child quiet if her intent was to kill her.

Why then did they state drop the death penalty option?

I recently read the duct tape could have been to keep her quiet while Casey Anthony went from bar to bar to bar. But chloroform has also been said to serve that function. Which brings ME back to agg. manslaughter. Casey Anthony both administered chloroform to Caylee Anthony & used duct tape on her mouth so she could stay out with fellow bums longer. Why didn't she just hire a..................................(babysitter?)

So, what do your 30 years of experience that has obviously not included employment in the area lead you to conclude? So far, as Lockhorn wrote, I find the matter bewildering. I am employed thank you very much. I just don't bluff about my job! LOL. And I did not appreciate the insult. You were not very clear on your definition of aggravated manslaughter at all as you said it had to do with evading prosecution and things done after death. But I shall put you on ignore since you insulted me in this post. And by the way switching seats after a drunk driving crash has nothing to do with an aggravated charge. It would not make any difference in the charge if you said yes I did it , I drove drunk and hit someone or you denied it to the hilt. As I stated before evading prosecution has nothing to do with the actual manslaughter charge.

[FDInLaw]

Please try to get along. :(

We are all here because of a beautiful little girl and the tragedy around her fate. :rose:

[One2Snoop]

Just re-posting this as an FYI.....

Remains identified as Caylee
Last Edited: Friday, 19 Dec 2008, 3:00 PM EST Created: Friday, 19 Dec 2008, 2:03 PM EST

ORANGE COUNTY, Fla. (WOFL FOX 35, Orlando) -Skeletal remains found in the woods are the Florida 3-year-old who has been missing since June, and her death is considered a homicide, a county medical examiner said Friday.


DNA tests confirm that the remains match Caylee Anthony's genetic profile, said the Orange County Medical Examiner Dr. Jan Garavaglia .

A utility worker stumbled upon the remains last week, less than a half-mile from where the girl lived. Garavaglia said some of the remains discovered were as small as pebbles, and authorities weren't certain how the girl was killed.

"Bottom line is folks, no child should have to go through this," said Orange County Sheriff Kevin Beary.

Caylee's mother, 22-year-old Casey Anthony, was indicted in October on first-degree murder and other charges, even though no body was found. She has insisted that she left the girl with a baby sitter in June, but she didn't report her missing until July.

A search team said they did not check the wooded area sooner because it was submerged in water.

Beary said his department was investigating reports that the utility worker who called in the tip leading to the discovery of the remains had tried several times in August to call in his suspicion about a bag in the area.

"If we missed a window of opportunity we don't know," he said. "I'm not throwing anybody under the bus because we don't know. That's why we conduct an administrative review."

Casey Anthony's attorney, Jose Baez , was with her at the Orange County Jail when she found out the news, said Todd Black, a spokesman for the attorney. She was notified a short time before the news conference about the positive identification. Black said he wouldn't comment on her reaction.

The case captivated the community where the little girl's family lived, and Caylee has been a staple on national news as her mother and grandparents pleaded for tips, promising that the girl was still alive.

Caylee's grandmother first called authorities in July to say she hadn't seen the girl for a month and her daughter's car smelled like death.

Police immediately interviewed Anthony and soon said everything she told them about her daughter's whereabouts was false. The baby sitter was nonexistent and the apartment where Anthony said she had last seen Caylee had been empty for months. Anthony also lied about where she worked, they said.

Other troubling details emerged: Photos surfaced of Anthony partying after her daughter went missing. Friends said she was a habitual liar, but also a good mother.

Last month, the Orange County State Attorney turned over almost 800 pages of documents showing someone used the Anthonys' home computer to do Internet searches for terms like "neck breaking" and "household weapons."

In mid-March, someone searched Google and Wikipedia for peroxide, shovels, acetone, alcohol and chloroform. Traces of chloroform, which is used to induce unconsciousness and a component of human decomposition, were found in the trunk of Casey Anthony's car during forensic testing, the documents say.

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail;jsessionid=96B8F37D9745F59C278B78381C60F1ED ?contentId=8110238&version=21&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=1.1.1&sflg=1

[lorettalockhorn]

>>the first thing I would have done is, I would have prayed

Move to strike this self-serving claptrap from the record, Your Honor.

[Woostock]

the Anthonys let Caylee down...No matter how you look at it. They have to live with that for the rest of their lives.

[FDInLaw]

the Anthonys let Caylee down...No matter how you look at it. They have to live with that for the rest of their lives.This is the simple truth. It's a wonder they get any sleep at night.

[lorettalockhorn]

********************************************
Perhaps it is cognitive impairment rather than heckling.


Hey, do you make nasty comments about physical impairments too? How about that Brad Conway? He's a sitting duck in that wheelchair.

[lorettalockhorn]

the Anthonys let Caylee down...No matter how you look at it. They have to live with that for the rest of their lives.

Totally agree. And Caylee was such a smart and adorable little one. Who couldn't love that little munchkin?

[FDInLaw]

Hey, do you make nasty comments about physical impairments too? How about that Brad Conway? He's a sitting duck in that wheelchair.
Bait much? :punch:




:tongue:

[lorettalockhorn]

Bait much? :punch:




:tongue:

LMAO There are plenty of us who have been involved in plenty of dustups here. It was tough not to take Peachallie Esq's bait for going after a logical, coherent, erudite poster. Shame on me. :punch:

[One2Snoop]

Didn't George call the police to report the gas can's missing? Seems he had it with his daughter and was at mega frustration point! He knew she took them. When she got angry and tossed the cans and swore at him, it was because he called the police regarding them. IMO. She's a disrespectful little brat anyway and probably was allowed to use that language with her parents. I think, if left alone, George would have carved her a new one in a heartbeat at that point. Wish I were a fly on the wall that week.

Yes, there's a police report.

[mu8shark]

Stephen King couldn't have written that better! But it's very possible, unlike so many of his saga's. I salute you!
:beer:It is a good scenario. Whether in the trunk after waking up or struggling in the pool t here could be chance that Caylee would scream so the duct tape could have served that function, I agree. It was tape to silence her during whatever Casey was doing and if she chloroformed her you can bet if she had her in the trunk she did not want her waking up too soon and some passerby hearing lots of noise from the trunk. I don't know if Casey realized if you seal a kid in a trunk they are not going to get fresh air, the chloroform is just going to recirculate according to M Baden. See ya all later, got some company coming over but will jump on here midnight like.

[lorettalockhorn]

Yes, there's a police report.

Right, it was on the list of service calls to the Ants' address that I posted a while back.

[One2Snoop]

Yes, there's a police report.

adding....


George Anthony reported the cans stolen to police in late June. But last night on FOX News, he said he learned later that same day his daughter had taken them. He said the discovery came to light when he asked Casey about a tire tool in her car. "She's still telling me, 'I'll get it Dad, I'll get it." George said he told her he was capable of getting it himself. He said when she opened the trunk, "...there were the gas cans. She's the one that took the gas cans."

http://www.abcactionnews.com/news/local/story/Casey-Anthonys-father-says-she-took-the-gas-cans/vqT2lPVvfkGXC6MhVRKg1A.cspx

[mu8shark]

LMAO There are plenty of us who have been involved in plenty of dustups here. It was tough not to take Peachallie Esq's bait for going after a logical, coherent, erudite poster. Shame on me. :punch: LOretta you make me laugh every single night. Thanks!

[One2Snoop]

Right, it was on the list of service calls to the Ants' address that I posted a while back.

I knew we had the document posted here somewhere but I couldn't find it. Thanks for the info. :seeya:

[Gatordog]

It is a good scenario. Whether in the trunk after waking up or struggling in the pool t here could be chance that Caylee would scream so the duct tape could have served that function, I agree. It was tape to silence her during whatever Casey was doing and if she chloroformed her you can bet if she had her in the trunk she did not want her waking up too soon and some passerby hearing lots of noise from the trunk. I don't know if Casey realized if you seal a kid in a trunk they are not going to get fresh air, the chloroform is just going to recirculate according to M Baden. See ya all later, got some company coming over but will jump on here midnight like.

She knew the trunk would be lethal if not because of lack of air circulation but because of the heat. All children here in Florida are taught the dangers of hiding in a closed car or trunk so CA had to know the danger. The Liar had to know that but chose not to care.

[Gatordog]

Kathy Belich had a report on tonight about the videotape of dominic Casey. Seems Hoover was suspicious of what Dominic was doing there at the site not one but TWO days. He was on the phone while at the scene.

Hoover said he was going to have a press conference on Monday. Leonard Padilla was talking with Belich. Seems like he's the one behind getting this dirty business with the tape made public. I tell you, Padilla is like the Orkin Man. When roaches see him, they better go running! :biggrin:

Gator

[One2Snoop]

Kathy Belich had a report on tonight about the videotape of dominic Casey. Seems Hoover was suspicious of what Dominic was doing there at the site not one but TWO days. He was on the phone while at the scene.

Hoover said he was going to have a press conference on Monday. Leonard Padilla was talking with Belich. Seems like he's the one behind getting this dirty business with the tape made public. I tell you, Padilla is like the Orkin Man. When roaches see him, they better go running! :biggrin:

Gator

LMAO! Thanks for the update. :seeya:

[Gatordog]

Good point gator. Nah, she didn't care until her ass was in serious trouble. Then she cared. That's the extent of her caring. She cared about Casey Anthony and nothing more. Interesting human specimen isn't she? Perhaps the sun curled her frontal lobes? If they donate her brain (however small) to science we maybe able to rid the earth of these kids of predators.

Now I'm getting into the haterade mode.. I can't take it!

Bartender, two double haterades here please. One for me and one for my friend. :beer:

[lorettalockhorn]

Kathy Belich had a report on tonight about the videotape of dominic Casey. Seems Hoover was suspicious of what Dominic was doing there at the site not one but TWO days. He was on the phone while at the scene.

Hoover said he was going to have a press conference on Monday. Leonard Padilla was talking with Belich. Seems like he's the one behind getting this dirty business with the tape made public. I tell you, Padilla is like the Orkin Man. When roaches see him, they better go running! :biggrin:

Gator

Wonder what made LP wait so long to extinguish the vermin.

[Peachallie]

Hey, do you make nasty comments about physical impairments too? How about that Brad Conway? He's a sitting duck in that wheelchair.
*****************************************
Cognitive impairment is not a disability in & of itself. You may be thinking of DEVELOPMENTAL DIABILITIES, and my best friend is developmentally disabled, Moo8 did not understand some sentences, I responded to the mistaken critique(.) I know several attorneys that cannot walk*, nor does one judge I greatly respect & have practiced in front of my entire 22 years in the Florida Bar. Due to my mother's disabilities I keep a watch out to assist those who have physical impairments.


* I know only two legally blind attorneys. Florida swore in our first deaf attorney 3-4 years ago. For personal reasons I was thrilled.

[Peachallie]

I totally agree with that Gator, but I'm thinking there's a flip side too...........

Was she high? Did she do it before she met up with Tony and went to Blockbuster? Wasn't that early evening? Did the moron say to herself it would be only for a couple of hours, and then continued smoking or whatever and instead of 2 it was 4 hours or more?

We'll never know what scenario it really is.....she'll never give it up.:punch:
**********************************************
If it is proven that she locked up her two year old daughter in the trunk of a car, having administered chloroform & having duct taped her mouth, the state may be able to show aggravating factors that warrant death. It matters not whether is was for 2 or 4 hours. It could even be "heinous, atrocious & cruel". But the state has made no move to reinstate the death penalty option. That scenario tends to eliminate agg. manslaughter and possibly 2nd degree.

That act is depraved; Casey Anthony appears to be an irresponsible, selfish bum but THAT?

[One2Snoop]

Major Caylee Anthony Clue Could Be On Mystery Videotape

Friday, January 2, 2009 – updated: 6:10 pm EST January 2, 2009
ORLANDO, Fla. -- Brand new evidence could potentially tie Casey Anthony to her daughter's body. A mystery videotape of the crime scene, shot by one of the Anthonys' private investigators weeks before Caylee was found, reportedly shows their other private investigator on the phone. But who is he talking to?

That mystery caller could be a big clue that connects Casey to the crime scene.

Eyewitness News has learned the Anthonys' two private investigators came to the discovery scene on November 15 and 16, a Saturday and Sunday, possibly because they didn't find Caylee's remains right away.

Law enforcement is trying to find out whether inside information led them there.

Eyewitness News has learned that the Anthonys' private investigator, Dominic Casey, is seen a month before the body was found on the November 15 videotape at the scene on the phone. California bounty hunter Leonard Padilla, who first sprung Casey out of jail, says he saw Dominic Casey on the videotape, because the person who shot it, private investigator Jim Hoover, showed it to him.

"He's standing there, or somebody's standing there, filming Dominic down the road and Dominic's on a cell phone, and you can see the fence, the signs on the left, the fence is there, everything is there," Padilla told Eyewitness News.

Finding out who Dominic Casey was talking to that day on the phone at the scene could be important to investigators in finding out whether inside information brought him and the other private eye to the area.

Padilla told Eyewitness News that Hoover claims Dominic Casey told him on November 15 that Caylee's remains had been found and that the two of them were going to look for them. Dominic Casey told Eyewitness News on Friday he was talking to his ill daughter on the phone that day and insists he was only there to rule out a tip from one of Casey's friends.

Padilla said he asked Hoover about Dominic Casey's phone call.

"I even asked him, 'Who's he talking to?' He said, 'I don't know.' 'Could you hear what he was saying?' 'No, I couldn't hear.' He was 100 yards away," Padilla explained.

Both Dominic Casey and Padilla said Hoover claims to have recorded over most of the tape he shot at the scene, but Eyewitness News has learned that Hoover is planning a news conference for Monday.

http://www.wftv.com/news/18401963/detail.html#-

[lorettalockhorn]

*****************************************
Cognitive impairment is not a disability in & of itself. You may be thinking of DEVELOPMENTAL DIABILITIES, and my best friend is developmentally disabled, Moo8 did not understand some sentences, I responded to the mistaken critique(.) I know several attorneys that cannot walk*, nor does one judge I greatly respect & have practiced in front of my entire 22 years in the Florida Bar. Due to my mother's disabilities I keep a watch out to assist those who have physical impairments.


* I know only two legally blind attorneys. Florida swore in our first deaf attorney 3-4 years ago. For personal reasons I was thrilled.

Cognitive impairment most certainly is disabling. Look it up. You're certainly the queen of online research. Due to your mother's disabilities, I would think that you wouldn't be so quick to call someone else out on theirs. Especially someone who has frequently demonstrated her abilities to cogitate in a logical and coherent manner.

BLAH, BLAH, BLAH :rolleyes:

[lorettalockhorn]

Thank you friend! Heads up! I need to make up for New Years Eve. I fell asleep before my hagnog shot!

Making Meatloaf Marsala tonight! Have some!

Recipe or process please!!!

[lorettalockhorn]

Oh loretta! Make your meatloaf the usual way. The Marsala sauce, in a separate pan. (I use a frying pan) Butter, garlic, fresh mushrooms, a cup of Marsala wine, half cup water, tablespoon of flour and wella! (Marsala is salty, so no salt, just pepper)

Let it simmer, pour it over the sliced meatloaf and send some to Old Soul if she promises not to send me more snow. :no:

I make mushroom sauce for meatloaf relatively frequently (and use mushrooms in the meatloaf), and sometimes add wine, but have never used marsala. I'll give it a whirl! Of course I live in a dry county. Drat my luck. Wonder if the bootlegger has marsala?!

[One2Snoop]

Part 2 of Nancy Grace's re-cap of the case is on... :seeya:

[lorettalockhorn]

Haaa!!!! You can find Marsala in the Super Market. Your meatloaf sounds very good! It took me years to master it. Mine used to taste like big meatball. :)

Oh goodie! I've got new pink silk paisley PJs that will make quite a splash at the grocery store.

What's wrong with a big meatball? (Says the meatatarian.)

[lorettalockhorn]

Part 2 of Nancy Grace's re-cap of the case is on... :seeya:

Had to slop the hogs so I'm running behind. Question: Why wasn't an Amber Alert issued? I get that LE smelled a rat from the get go, but mightn't it have helped when gathering evidence?

[Gatordog]

Wonder what made LP wait so long to extinguish the vermin.

Awful lot of vermin in this case.

[lorettalockhorn]

Oooooo lorettalockhorn!!! Just how dry is that county of yours?

I'm going to get my pj's on now. (Ahem, flannel) It's a cold night in New England and what's needed is a good hot toddy.
:beer:

It's so dry that we have bootleggers who probably make scads more money than I do!!!

My hormones do not permit for wearing the flannel jammies. :flamemad: (Not mad, that's just the closest smiley to a hot flash available.)

[lorettalockhorn]

Awful lot of vermin in this case.

No lie! But if LP is the Orkin Man out to exteminate cockroaches, why did he wait to talk about these two PIs? Or are we supposed to think that he is the one who gave this information to LE? But the story didn't break until Hoover started trying to sell his video? :confused:

[sharlock]

Thanks for getting this, although I watched it the one thing I noticed in your post of it is that it was not Hoover who said we found Caylee, it was that Dominic Casey told Hoover this and Hoover dropped it at Leonards feet. Which is kind of interesting because I did not know anything about this Hoover guy but did not trust Dominic Casey at all, Dominic Casey was the one who supposedly told the Anthonys that everything Casey said turned out to be true. I also think he was the one supposedly watching the real kidnappers. I have also heard Dominic is linked to KidFinders network, which makes me think when you put it all together he has been stringing Cindy and George along telling them what they want to hear so he can get a paycheck out of this. Why would he tell Hoover they had quote found her and she was not alive and they needed to go get her and then drag Hoover along to film that specific area. I am very suspcious of this guy indeed and if I were LE I would get Dominic Caseys phone records and email around the time that he sent Hoover to film that area, even if it is about 600 yards away from where the body was found. And I would find out through those records or try to find out who sent Dominic Casey to the area a month prior to where Caylees body was found. Because unless they find out that Casey and Hoover filmed lots of areas, then something is up and the phone records and email and texts may be very helpful indeed.
Forgive me if someone else has already posted this but I am once again playing catchup here. The way I understood what LP was saying was that the meter readers first 3 calls to LE were off by about 600yards not the investigators. They were much closer within 30-200yards of the body which is why he thinks there is no way that they were following up on Kiomarie's statement or they would have been alot further away from where the body was found. It does indicate that Casey had prior knowledge of where the body was and the fact that he wanted the film off Hoover and Hoover lied so as to keep it makes me think that Casey was still assosciated with Baez at the time even though he was supposed to have been only working for the Anthony's then.
I wonder if the work thing preventing hem from revealing what the defense were talking about would still hold if Baez and Casey were stupid enough to continue talking to and using this guy after his contract was up. Peachallie maybe you would no if this might null and void the confidentiality side of things?

[Gatordog]

Thank you friend! Heads up! I need to make up for New Years Eve. I fell asleep before my hagnog shot!

Making Meatloaf Marsala tonight! Have some!

Oooh, I love marsala. My Sicilian grandmother would slice peaches or strawberries and mix them with sweet marsala and the pour them over vanilla ice cream. ;)

Gator

[sharlock]

I think I remember that - even worse if its true. The only thing that can mean to me is Casey couldn't stand looking at Caylee's face knowing what she'd done. uggghhhh! :mad:
Unfortunately I think we are giving Casey to much credence here by insinuating she has a conscience. She put the tape on because it suited her.

[lorettalockhorn]

My GOODNESS!!!! I never thought of the Amber Alert. Now I know LE had more than we can know right now. They had to know more. Of course! loretta you're hot tonight girl!

How did I miss this? Of course I'm hot. The thermostat is cranked up to 65°.

No doubt LE has information that we haven't seen. I'm banking on it. Praying for it. But you would still think that they would have issued the Amber Alert to dot the eyes and cross the tees.

New question: What does George watch on Food Network from noon - 1:00? Are there any hour long programs on FN during the day? I thought 12:00 - 12:30 was Paula Deeeen. Or is there another "food channel" that I don't know about?

[Justice Denied?]

Bartender, two double haterades here please. One for me and one for my friend. :beer:

Coming right up! Served tonight with kiwi and mango.

[lorettalockhorn]

Forgive me if someone else has already posted this but I am once again playing catchup here. The way I understood what LP was saying was that the meter readers first 3 calls to LE were off by about 600yards not the investigators. They were much closer within 30-200yards of the body which is why he thinks there is no way that they were following up on Kiomarie's statement or they would have been alot further away from where the body was found. It does indicate that Casey had prior knowledge of where the body was and the fact that he wanted the film off Hoover and Hoover lied so as to keep it makes me think that Casey was still assosciated with Baez at the time even though he was supposed to have been only working for the Anthony's then.
I wonder if the work thing preventing hem from revealing what the defense were talking about would still hold if Baez and Casey were stupid enough to continue talking to and using this guy after his contract was up. Peachallie maybe you would no if this might null and void the confidentiality side of things?

Doesn't there have to be a bona fide contract and/or some exchange of money or something of value for there to have been confidentiality?

Maybe not. Maybe Peach will explain how FL differs from other states in this area.

[Gatordog]

Forgive me if someone else has already posted this but I am once again playing catchup here. The way I understood what LP was saying was that the meter readers first 3 calls to LE were off by about 600yards not the investigators. They were much closer within 30-200yards of the body which is why he thinks there is no way that they were following up on Kiomarie's statement or they would have been alot further away from where the body was found. It does indicate that Casey had prior knowledge of where the body was and the fact that he wanted the film off Hoover and Hoover lied so as to keep it makes me think that Casey was still assosciated with Baez at the time even though he was supposed to have been only working for the Anthony's then.
I wonder if the work thing preventing hem from revealing what the defense were talking about would still hold if Baez and Casey were stupid enough to continue talking to and using this guy after his contract was up. Peachallie maybe you would no if this might null and void the confidentiality side of things?

The meter reader said it was a swampy area just past Hopespring Drive where it meets Suburban. Just past the wooden fence which is exactly where the blue tent was put up by the police. The area the friends mentioned which is behind the school is much further down Suburban. Maybe that's what LP was refering to - if dominic was photographing the party area, he would have been further down the road.

[lorettalockhorn]

So sad that the Anthonys had their house all set up for Caylee's third birthday with the balloons out front and a pot of chili on the stove.

[Gatordog]

No lie! But if LP is the Orkin Man out to exteminate cockroaches, why did he wait to talk about these two PIs? Or are we supposed to think that he is the one who gave this information to LE? But the story didn't break until Hoover started trying to sell his video? :confused:

Didn't LP mention a while back on NG not to be surprised if the body had been located and that the FBI knew about it? Maybe LP passed the info on to the FBI agent back then.

[Justice Denied?]

Oh goodie! I've got new pink silk paisley PJs that will make quite a splash at the grocery store.

What's wrong with a big meatball? (Says the meatatarian.)

Maybe we should go to the grocery store together. I got new red velour jammies for Christmas. We would make quite a pair.

[Justice Denied?]

Had to slop the hogs so I'm running behind. Question: Why wasn't an Amber Alert issued? I get that LE smelled a rat from the get go, but mightn't it have helped when gathering evidence?

My best guess would be because of the amount of time she had ben missing. According to Casey, she had been gone 31 days. Of course the fact the didn't believe her had a lot to do with it, I'm sure.

[Gatordog]

If lies were dollars we'd all be rich. Add one more to CA's list. Kiomarie said that the Liar gave Caylee the middle name Marie in honor of Kiomarie's friendship. Bah-Loney. Cindy's name is Cynthia Marie and Casey's middle name is Marie. If her mouth is open she's lying. If she's breathing - she's lying.

Gator

[lorettalockhorn]

Didn't LP mention a while back on NG not to be surprised if the body had been located and that the FBI knew about it? Maybe LP passed the info on to the FBI agent back then.

The FBI knew in November that Caylee was in The Zone and didn't go get her? Let valuable forensic evidence go by the wayside? You lost me!

If lies were dollars we'd all be rich. Add one more to CA's list. Kiomarie said that the Liar gave Caylee the middle name Marie in honor of Kiomarie's friendship. Bah-Loney. Cindy's name is Cynthia Marie and Casey's middle name is Marie. If her mouth is open she's lying. If she's breathing - she's lying.

Gator

That struck me as way odd too! Did Kiomarie really believe that? Casey was blowing smoke up her ass, and she never realized that Cindy's and Casey's middle names were both Marie?

[lorettalockhorn]

Maybe we should go to the grocery store together. I got new red velour jammies for Christmas. We would make quite a pair.

:hat:

My best guess would be because of the amount of time she had ben missing. According to Casey, she had been gone 31 days. Of course the fact the didn't believe her had a lot to do with it, I'm sure.

That makes perfect sense (but I still wish LE had gone through the motions for some reason).

[susie31023]

Unfortunately I think we are giving Casey to much credence here by insinuating she has a conscience. She put the tape on because it suited her.

Shar, I couldn't agree more. O/T hope your camp out was great with your son:rose:

[sharlock]

The meter reader said it was a swampy area just past Hopespring Drive where it meets Suburban. Just past the wooden fence which is exactly where the blue tent was put up by the police. The area the friends mentioned which is behind the school is much further down Suburban. Maybe that's what LP was refering to - if dominic was photographing the party area, he would have been further down the road.
Thanks Gator, if you read this quote from LP does that put them near the body as well or could that still be further down the road?
"He's standing there, or somebody's standing there, filming Dominic down the road and Dominic's on a cell phone, and you can see the fence, the signs on the left, the fence is there, everything is there," Padilla told Eyewitness News.

[One2Snoop]

Didn't LP mention a while back on NG not to be surprised if the body had been located and that the FBI knew about it? Maybe LP passed the info on to the FBI agent back then.

Yes he said that on NG one night - IIRC she bypassed the info as though she didn't hear it. I remember thinking why the heck she didn't jump all over that piece of news but thinking back many suggested here that NG only had him on for ratings and didn't care what he had to offer. :cool: My memory is faulty folks so not pointing fingers and don't quote me on that LOL. :beer:

[One2Snoop]

NANCY GRACE

Encore: Casey Anthony Investigation, the First 30 Days
Aired January 2, 2009 - 20:00:00 ET

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0901/02/ng.01.html

[sharlock]

Didn't LP mention a while back on NG not to be surprised if the body had been located and that the FBI knew about it? Maybe LP passed the info on to the FBI agent back then.
He sure did and looking back it was a pretty loaded comment to make wasn't it. I think LP is telling the truth as to what he was told by Hooper I just hope Hooper was telling the truth.:confused:

[sharlock]

Shar, I couldn't agree more. O/T hope your camp out was great with your son:rose:
Thanks Susie, we had a ball, I am sunburnt (:flamemad:closest pic to how I look I could find lol) and look like a lobster but we had a fantastic time!

[sharlock]

Yes he said that on NG one night - IIRC she bypassed the info as though she didn't hear it. I remember thinking why the heck she didn't jump all over that piece of news but thinking back many suggested here that NG only had him on for ratings and didn't care what he had to offer. :cool: My memory is faulty folks so not pointing fingers and don't quote me on that LOL. :beer:
Nope your memory is spot on Snoop, BTW thanks for the links, you are the best!:D

[lorettalockhorn]

He sure did and looking back it was a pretty loaded comment to make wasn't it. I think LP is telling the truth as to what he was told by Hooper I just hope Hooper was telling the truth.:confused:

Sheesh If LP has bona fide information to share with us (and that he's shared with LE and has been given the all clear on) why doesn't she let him speak if she's going to bother to have him on? We want to know, obviously. And it would redeem him in the eyes of many who consider him to be somewhat pathetic and somewhat less than honest. I'd really, really like to see some good guys and heroes borne out of this clvsterfvck.

[One2Snoop]

Leonard Padilla: “Don’t Be Surprised If OCSO Or The FBI Drop It On Us That They’ve Got Caylee’s Body.”

Search tells me he said this on Dec. 10th Nancy Grace but I can't find it in the transcript - still looking....

[lorettalockhorn]

Leonard Padilla: “Don’t Be Surprised If OCSO Or The FBI Drop It On Us That They’ve Got Caylee’s Body.”

Search tells me he said this on Dec. 10th Nancy Grace but I can't find it in the transcript - still looking....

Maybe?

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0812/10/ng.01.html

ETA Scanned the transcript, but didn't find the statement by Padilla.

[One2Snoop]

Maybe?

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0812/10/ng.01.html

I've been thru that one 5 times LOL - he mentions the FBI which is probably why my search picked it up, but not the quote I posted above.

[One2Snoop]

Bump.... Found it!

Caylee's Grandparents Slated For TV Appearance
Padilla Tells CNN Body May Have Already Been Found

POSTED: 8:40 am EST December 10, 2008
UPDATED: 9:47 am EST December 10, 2008

ORLANDO, Fla. -- Reaction to the search for Caylee Anthony will come directly from her grandparents on Wednesday.

George and Cindy Anthony are scheduled to appear on CNN's "Larry King Live" Wednesday night.

Meanwhile, two previous interviews on national television took the search in different directions.

Bounty hunter Leonard Padilla told CNN's Nancy Grace that investigators may already know where to find the missing toddler.

"Everybody knows when she died, and the 30 days is not a secret anymore ... Don't be surprised if Orange County or the FBI don't drop it on us here that they've got the body somewhere," Padilla said.

The attorney for Caylee's mother, Casey Anthony, appeared on NBC's "Today" on Tuesday.

"We believe that Caylee is alive, and what we want to do, as her attorney I have a responsibility to Casey, and that is to do the best job possible, so it's not an issue of rushing to get a trial just because we expect a body to be found," attorney Jose Baez said.

Anthony's murder trial is slated to begin on Jan. 5. The date and location could change at a status hearing on Thursday.

http://www.wesh.com/news/18243248/detail.html

[lorettalockhorn]

I've been thru that one 5 times LOL - he mentions the FBI which is probably why my search picked it up, but not the quote I posted above.

K, I just automatically went to the transcript from the 10th, but this is from the 9th:

But everybody knows when she died and -- the 30 days is not a secret anymore. And don`t be surprised -- don`t be surprised if Orange County or the FBI don`t drop it on us here that they`ve got the body somewhere.


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0812/09/ng.01.html

[STLcardfan]

What's there to forgive? You are right. This situation is very complex and I don't think there is one explanation that is 100 percent correct. I also cannot grasp how Cindy could not have any info on the babysitter. The only thing I can comment on is that someone here had mentioned long ago that if Cindy or George had asked for info, the Liar could have snapped back that she was Caylee's mother and no one else. My mother would have said fine, then go find someplace else to live, but these folks were no like that. IMO, they brought their children up without discipline or consequences.

Gator

ITA except now they are are going to have consequences.

[One2Snoop]

K, I just automatically went to the transcript from the 10th, but this is from the 9th:

But everybody knows when she died and -- the 30 days is not a secret anymore. And don`t be surprised -- don`t be surprised if Orange County or the FBI don`t drop it on us here that they`ve got the body somewhere.


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0812/09/ng.01.html

I glanced thru the 9th also but didn't find it - guess I didn't glance enough LOL. Thanks! :seeya:

[One2Snoop]

ITA except now they are are going to have consequences.

http://i41.tinypic.com/a2ywpz.jpg

[lorettalockhorn]

ITA except now they are are going to have consequences.

Amen

[lorettalockhorn]

I glanced thru the 9th also but didn't find it - guess I didn't glance enough LOL. Thanks! :seeya:

I was right behind you. :tongue:

So can anyone interpret that statement? The OCSO or the FBI had Caylee's body but left her for the meter reader to find? I'm lost here. :confused:

[One2Snoop]

I was right behind you. :tongue:

So can anyone interpret that statement? The OCSO or the FBI had Caylee's body but left her for the meter reader to find? I'm lost here. :confused:

Just remember it's Leonard speak! http://i42.tinypic.com/2vux26p.jpg

[lorettalockhorn]

Just remember it's Leonard speak! http://i42.tinypic.com/2vux26p.jpg

LMAO & he talks about Cindyisms.

[lighthousedazy]

I was right behind you. :tongue:

So can anyone interpret that statement? The OCSO or the FBI had Caylee's body but left her for the meter reader to find? I'm lost here. :confused:
I am more confused than you guys, but could the MR have called this in earlier than Dec. 11 and it was not released to the media or public until then? Also I don't get a handle on the PI guys in that area filming in Nov. either, but that area where the remains were found was under 3 to 4 feet of water that a neighbor had said the water had only subsided a couple weeks before. jmo :shrug:

[One2Snoop]

I am more confused than you guys, but could the MR have called this in earlier than Dec. 11 and it was not released to the media or public until then? Also I don't get a handle on the PI guys in that area filming in Nov. either, but that area where the remains were found was under 3 to 4 feet of water that a neighbor had said the water had only subsided a couple weeks before. jmo :shrug:

He did make 3 calls in August - 3days in a row but it wasn't properly followed up on. I'm thinking one of the calls was fielded through one of the tiplines and once the water receded along with the tip from one of Casey's old school friends pointing out the hangout the PI went to check it out. I believe the PI when he said he didn't know the remains were there - I think its all just a coinkydink and with Padilla spewing his 2 cents - it merely adds to the drama.

JMO

[sharlock]

Sheesh If LP has bona fide information to share with us (and that he's shared with LE and has been given the all clear on) why doesn't she let him speak if she's going to bother to have him on? We want to know, obviously. And it would redeem him in the eyes of many who consider him to be somewhat pathetic and somewhat less than honest. I'd really, really like to see some good guys and heroes borne out of this clvsterfvck.
Too true Loretta! I have wondered ever since that FBI guy stood up for LP's honour so vehemently if he hasn't been asked to say the things he has from time to time to get the defense team on their toes.:shrug:

[sharlock]

I was right behind you. :tongue:

So can anyone interpret that statement? The OCSO or the FBI had Caylee's body but left her for the meter reader to find? I'm lost here. :confused:
I think he assumed that after called Nick Savage that the FBI would not only take the tapes but also perform a search. Seems to me he assumed that would be enough to find Caylee but when nothing was said about her being found he went to far and decided the FBI and OCSO had found her and were holding back info from the public imo.

[lighthousedazy]

He did make 3 calls in August - 3days in a row but it wasn't properly followed up on. I'm thinking one of the calls was fielded through one of the tiplines and once the water receded along with the tip from one of Casey's old school friends pointing out the hangout the PI went to check it out. I believe the PI when he said he didn't know the remains were there - I think its all just a coinkydink and with Padilla spewing his 2 cents - it merely adds to the drama.

JMOThanks. You are probably right about that. :o

[lighthousedazy]

He did make 3 calls in August - 3days in a row but it wasn't properly followed up on. I'm thinking one of the calls was fielded through one of the tiplines and once the water receded along with the tip from one of Casey's old school friends pointing out the hangout the PI went to check it out. I believe the PI when he said he didn't know the remains were there - I think its all just a coinkydink and with Padilla spewing his 2 cents - it merely adds to the drama.

JMOI am also thinking these could have been entirely different bags. Drive around in your city and note all the debree and plastic bags along the side of the highway. I am trying to give Padilla the benefit of the doubt. He seems honest and could not understand at first how a mother could purposely kill her child, BUT, I agree he is a dramatist. jmo :shrug:

[One2Snoop]

I am also thinking these could have been entirely different bags. Drive around in your city and note all the debree and plastic bags along the side of the highway. I am trying to give Padilla the benefit of the doubt. He seems honest and could not understand at first how a mother could purposely kill her child, BUT, I agree he is a dramatist. jmo :shrug:

Although if IIRC he noted an unusual smell - if I were LE and knew that location was questionable in the Caylee disappearance I'd be hopping on it like a hot potato. Problem is when you have different numbers to call including 911 and someone doesn't take the time to put the two and two together it falls by the wayside.

I don't know if you remember or not but when the meter reader called in for the 4th time - he made note to the 911 operator this time that it was in the vicinity of the Anthony home. Granted we all don't think of these things as they happen, but the meter reader obviously figured out he needed to make a connection to the Anthony's somehow once he went back and found that garbage bag with remains - so what he smelled early on was most likely there all along - little Caylee's remains. :(

Hindsights 20/20 but this is probably the 2nd/3rd hi-profile case in FL - Trenton Duckett and Jennifer Kesse - you'd think LE would figure out a way for someone to keep track of tips/and field all calls no matter what number they came into. I'm sure many people in cases like this would offer their time for free.

Just sayin'. :seeya:

[Grave Chaser]

I will fully admit to being an uneducated female when it comes to cars (don't get me wrong, I know where the gas goes, check the oil, etc), but WTF is a widget (that 'thing' GA needed from CA's car)? Is it something like a doo-ma-jiggie, thing-a-ma-bob, or a doo-rod?

Sorry, just trying to lighten things up around here.

[One2Snoop]

I will fully admit to being an uneducated female when it comes to cars (don't get me wrong, I know where the gas goes, check the oil, etc), but WTF is a widget (that 'thing' GA needed from CA's car)? Is it something like a doo-ma-jiggie, thing-a-ma-bob, or a doo-rod?

Sorry, just trying to lighten things up around here.

LOL - I think it had something to do with rasing a tire slightly off the ground - but heck wouldn't that be called a "jack"? Eye's crossing - time to say good night. :seeya:

[STLcardfan]

Too true Loretta! I have wondered ever since that FBI guy stood up for LP's honour so vehemently if he hasn't been asked to say the things he has from time to time to get the defense team on their toes.:shrug:


I have always thought from day one that LP did not just come out of no where. I think he has been working with the FBI since day one. Sure he wanted his 15 mins. at first but he is still there. Now the Feds use many different sorts of people as informants. LP said in the begining that as soon as he got CA out of jail he would get the info to find Caylee. Except Liar didn't care for his questions and gave him the boot. I think he has been working for the FBI and drops his tibits as instructed. Often the informants don't have to testify to protect their idenity which would explain why he isn't on the witness list. The LE in this case I think have been on their toes and it would not surprise me a bit if he was a CI for them. Thats why they charged her with smaller crimes in comes LP gets her out in order to get info. she gives him the boot and they charge her with more to send her back to jail and LP gets the FBI's money back. Just a thought

[lighthousedazy]

I will fully admit to being an uneducated female when it comes to cars (don't get me wrong, I know where the gas goes, check the oil, etc), but WTF is a widget (that 'thing' GA needed from CA's car)? Is it something like a doo-ma-jiggie, thing-a-ma-bob, or a doo-rod?

Sorry, just trying to lighten things up around here.Oh dear, lol, all I know about widgets, I think they are add ons on the Opera browser. :D

[STLcardfan]

I Have another theory as to who Caylees father is. This is a very dysfunctional family. I have wondered all along if Lee is not the father. It seems odd that the real father has not been located or surfaced in light of her death. She is named after him. Call me sick but not sick as the bitoch that killed Caylee. Maybe that why she resented her so much. In my state you do not leave the hospital with a birth certificate with naming a father

[One2Snoop]

I have always thought from day one that LP did not just come out of no where. I think he has been working with the FBI since day one. Sure he wanted his 15 mins. at first but he is still there. Now the Feds use many different sorts of people as informants. LP said in the begining that as soon as he got CA out of jail he would get the info to find Caylee. Except Liar didn't care for his questions and gave him the boot. I think he has been working for the FBI and deops his tibits as instructed. Often the informants don't have to testify to protect their idenity which would explain why he isn't on the witness list. The LE in this case I think have been on their toes and it would not surprise me a bit if he was a CI for them. Thats why they charged her with smaller crimes in comes LP gets her out in order to get info. she gives him the boot and they charge her with more to send her back to jail and LP gets the FBI's money back. Just a thought

hmmmm http://i39.tinypic.com/2n83hp4.jpg - you might be on to something there stlcardfan.

[sharlock]

I have just been searching the web and read something that I had been unaware of. Is it true that the meter readers calls were only partially released and that portions are missing. I was trying to find out what GPS reading he gave them on the 2nd call and that just isn't there. Hmmm.

[One2Snoop]

I have just been searching the web and read something that I had been unaware of. Is it true that the meter readers calls were only partially released and that portions are missing. I was trying to find out what GPS reading he gave them on the 2nd call and that just isn't there. Hmmm.

I've not seen anything released regarding the first 3 calls. :shrug:

[javahog]

Just thinking out loud here. I feel the death was intentional. What do you think about this scenario, I'll refer to the liar as CA. George sees CA and Caylee leave the house close to 1 p.m. George goes to work and CA and Caylee return to the house at 2 pm. CA tells Caylee to put on her bathing suit because they're going swimming. CA takes Caylee either to the pool or to the bathtub and puts the duct tape on her mouth and proceeds to drown her. She either takes the bedsheet off of Caylee's bed or wraps her in a towel. She plans to make it look like an accidental drowning but can't get the tape off easily. Cindy gets home between 4 and 4:30 so she starts calling to see if she's on the way home - no answer. She starts to panic as she's running out of time. She takes the wrapped body and tries to hide it in the sandbox but she doesn't fit so she put her in the playhouse. She leaves the house at 4 pm to meet Tony for her date. She goes back after two days but finds the body is already badly decomposed and has to be moved. She borrows the shovel to lift the body and puts it in a garbage bag and then puts Caylee in the trunk. She takes the shovel and soaks it in the cholorinated pool to kill the smell and dries it off, leaving no prints on the shovel.

The duct tape was put on to prevent anyone hearing the screaming. It stuck to her hair and skin and wasn't easy to get off so she left it thinking she could take it off later. Explains the swimming suit. If Caylee had her book with her, it could have gotten wet with the splashing so CA put it with the body to dispose of it.

Gator

It makes sense as you lay it out...however, also thinking out loud...I have a 3 year old and he has the exact same sandbox (:(). It is big enough (again, :(). But...what comes to mind is CA's comment that LE hadn't even found Caylees clothes yet. I wonder if some clothes with decomp were soaked or temporarily stored in the backyard, maybe in the sandbox? Casey kept telling people that Caylee was at the beach with Zenaida during that month. I wonder if she wasn't redressed in the bathing suit to try and make it look like Z in a another stupid attempt...

I lean toward the nasty piece accidentally killing her with Chloroform, but I sure hope people don't think I am defending her in any way. Giving a baby homemade chloroform is as bad as premeditated murder, imo...and post mortem actions are indefensible. Baffling.

all imos and moos.

[One2Snoop]

I Have another theory as to who Caylees father is. This is a very dysfunctional family. I have wondered all along if Lee is not the father. It seems odd that the real father has not been located or surfaced in light of her death. She is named after him. Call me sick but not sick as the bitoch that killed Caylee. Maybe that why she resented her so much. In my state you do not leave the hospital with a birth certificate with naming a father

I was born in Misery - I didn't know that although my father is listed on my BC he just as well be non existent.

I can't go there regarding Lee without more proof - but can't say the thoughts not crossed my mind every now and again.

[Grave Chaser]

I Have another theory as to who Caylees father is. This is a very dysfunctional family. I have wondered all along if Lee is not the father. It seems odd that the real father has not been located or surfaced in light of her death. She is named after him. Call me sick but not sick as the bitoch that killed Caylee. Maybe that why she resented her so much. In my state you do not leave the hospital with a birth certificate with naming a father

Creepy... I've been thinking the same thing. Also, it's been stated before that CA has made refrences/allegations that she was abused by her father and Lee made a pass at her. Not that I'm excusing CA's behavior about killing Caylee, but if the allegations are true and that CA was George and Lee's personal **** puppy, it makes sense that she's jacked in the head (but who knows, maybe it was consentual? Maybe Cindy knew about the relationship(s) and was jealous of CA for taking her husband from her?). From the posts I've read, it seems that most people's opiniion of G is that he's a wuss, but think about it..... it's ALWAYS the quiet ones that we should have been worrying about.

Ok, I'm going to go shave me tongue for speaking/typing such gross theories.

[STLcardfan]

I was born in Misery - I didn't know that although my father is listed on my BC he just as well be non existent.

I can't go there regarding Lee without more proof - but can't say the thoughts not crossed my mind every now and again.



So the thought crossed your mind I feel better I was hoping I wasn't the only one. I just don't get why LE hasn't looked harder for the father unless they know who it is. It seems he would be a possible suspect.:shrug:

[sharlock]

I have always thought from day one that LP did not just come out of no where. I think he has been working with the FBI since day one. Sure he wanted his 15 mins. at first but he is still there. Now the Feds use many different sorts of people as informants. LP said in the begining that as soon as he got CA out of jail he would get the info to find Caylee. Except Liar didn't care for his questions and gave him the boot. I think he has been working for the FBI and drops his tibits as instructed. Often the informants don't have to testify to protect their idenity which would explain why he isn't on the witness list. The LE in this case I think have been on their toes and it would not surprise me a bit if he was a CI for them. Thats why they charged her with smaller crimes in comes LP gets her out in order to get info. she gives him the boot and they charge her with more to send her back to jail and LP gets the FBI's money back. Just a thought
I like the way you think stl, so glad you remembered your username!
Hey I was just thinking if Lee has moved out of his house and they are saying it was only a rental then I am bamboozled as to why at one point he was saying his parents were so tight for cash thathe mght have to buy them a house? You would think he could afford his own if he could afford to get them one hey. And didn't his car get repo'd a while back. Sounds like he was trying to make himself sound better of han he is. I guess that is no crime but I am curious as to why he has moved and what Melanie is doing now?

[STLcardfan]

Creepy... I've been thinking the same thing. Also, it's been stated before that CA has made refrences/allegations that she was abused by her father and Lee made a pass at her. Not that I'm excusing CA's behavior about killing Caylee, but if the allegations are true and that CA was George and Lee's personal **** puppy, it makes sense that she's jacked in the head (but who knows, maybe it was consentual? Maybe Cindy knew about the relationship(s) and was jealous of CA for taking her husband from her?). From the posts I've read, it seems that most people's opiniion of G is that he's a wuss, but think about it..... it's ALWAYS the quiet ones that we should have been worrying about.

Ok, I'm going to go shave me tongue for speaking/typing such gross theories.

oh it would so explain Caseys inability to love Caylee. And why her family tolerated all her crap, and why she is so messed up. Still no excuse to kill your daughter but sure would explain a lot.

[Grave Chaser]

So the thought crossed your mind I feel better I was hoping I wasn't the only one. I just don't get why LE hasn't looked harder for the father unless they know who it is. It seems he would be a possible suspect.:shrug:

LE has all of their DNA to compare with each other, so if it's true that the family tree is really a stump, we'll know (at the latest) by the time the trial starts.

[browneyes106]

I Have another theory as to who Caylees father is. This is a very dysfunctional family. I have wondered all along if Lee is not the father. It seems odd that the real father has not been located or surfaced in light of her death. She is named after him. Call me sick but not sick as the bitoch that killed Caylee. Maybe that why she resented her so much. In my state you do not leave the hospital with a birth certificate with naming a father

I do have some of those theories too. I think the Ants have always been dysfunctional and Cindy's brother posted a lot of proof on topix. com about them. Incestous relationships do happen and things are kept secret. Good point about about state laws and birth certificates. I'm not sure about the law in Florida but here in New Mexico mothers under the age of 18 have to name a father on birth certificates. It all depends on Florida law. I really don't buy the theories of Jesus Ortiz or Eric Baker being Caylee's dad.