Caylee Anthony Case Discussion Only

[tv]

By the way remember when George was spotted in his car looking into a clump of trees in a certain area. That was not the same general area was it, it was by the airport right? Because that would be too weird if thinigs are not weird enough. Please correct me if I am wrong esp you Gator because you know the area.

I remember what you're talking about but I can't remember the exact area. I swear you have to take notes to keep up with this case. I hope someone else remembers.

[SaraSidle]

Come on now, Sara. Don't tell me you've never indulged in a little fruit punch during the holidays. This is the same thing with a little derision, scepticism and cynicism added. Now it does pack a punch but we were tired of beer.

LOL I am too tired to think about it anymore. I just have my 2 martinis and then I am done. I can see being tired of beer though. I hate beer but I am glad you are all enjoying the holidays with your hagnog.

[SaraSidle]

I remember what you're talking about but I can't remember the exact area. I swear you have to take notes to keep up with this case. I hope someone else remembers.

your nic always makes me so hungry. It is very hard to keep up with this case. since June it feels like a circus and I am sure there will be books and movies. there are somethings I am doubtful of such as the video and Lee being involved very much but it is a wait and see for the most part. I just hope justice is done. I do get very upset about the duct tape because I thought Casey had made a mistake at first but the duct tape changes all that. Anyways everyone have a good night

Loretta I just love coconut cake. any time any day

[SaraSidle]

Where are you going?? I just woke up! Fell asleep on the couch during the NG blabalog. Sigh.... Well,I guess I'll crawl upstairs and hope the snow storm hits before morning!

Happy New Years Eve eeryone :beer:

i cannot go anywhere. I have been gone for 2 months and it will not happen again.

[eatcupcakes]

your nic always makes me so hungry. It is very hard to keep up with this case. since June it feels like a circus and I am sure there will be books and movies. there are somethings I am doubtful of such as the video and Lee being involved very much but it is a wait and see for the most part. I just hope justice is done. I do get very upset about the duct tape because I thought Casey had made a mistake at first but the duct tape changes all that. Anyways everyone have a good night

Loretta I just love coconut cake. any time any day

I went through all this with the Scott Peterson Case although this has got a much more crazy cast. I don't believe Lee is involved, has LE said they think he is involved or is it just the pundits making guesses on shows like NG.

As far as LP is concerned I would not believe a thing he says, it is all therory and remember he is not an investigator he is a Bounty Hunter. Why NG keeps having him on her show is because they don't have anyone else who actually talked to the Liar. It reminds me of when they removed a guy from the Jury early on in the Peterson case. Although he had nothing valid to say or add they had him on all the shows giving his opinion which was a joke. Once the trial ended and the other Jurors could speak they had nothing nice to say about him and he was wrong in everything he said no wonder he disappeared.

Now lets talk about the duct tape. Has LE or the Medical Examiner said the duct tape was around the head. I don't think they have. I think it was around the top of the bag to keep it closed. Lets think about this. If I put tape around the head of a dead body I am sticking it to the skin,in this case supposely around the mouth or head. When this tissue disintergrates the tape will fall off ,herefore I don't think the tape was on the head or face. Ofcourse this does not mean she was not intentionly killed.

I do think the Liar intentionly killed her child, I feel she should get al least LIPWP or even better death.

[eatcupcakes]

a Daisy Chain. I have never heard that term before except when I was making them with flowers as a child. Does anyone know exactly what a Daisy Chain is referring to when used in the way LP used it?

[lorettalockhorn]

a Daisy Chain. I have never heard that term before except when I was making them with flowers as a child. Does anyone know exactly what a Daisy Chain is referring to when used in the way LP used it?

LP on NG last night; I'll look around for more about his Daisy Chain Theory and how Casey, Lee, and the meter reader are connected ( :rolleyes: ) :

...CASAREZ: But to Leonard Padilla -- you are a bounty hunter. You searched for Caylee from the beginning. You believe this video exists. Have you seen it?

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Yes.

CASAREZ: Tell us about it.

PADILLA: I was introduced to Hoover back when we bailed out Casey in August. And because we have basically a sealed team, we don`t allow outsiders in. And therefore, even though he volunteered to help and all that, he wasn`t accepted.

When we went back this last time, we noticed that he was part of the security or the people that were hanging around the Anthonys. And after I had been there about three or four days, he mentioned to me that he had a film that he had filmed when Dominic called him on the 15th. And I asked him, I says, How can you have a film of the area? He says, Well, Dominic called me on the 15th, told me Caylee had been found. Hoover told me that he asked him, Is she alive? He said, No, she`s dead, but we`re going to go get her right now.

He then -- about two hours later, he showed up again. He had this film, a minute-and-a-half. But it`s not of the exact area where the body was found...


...UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Jean. Thanks.

CASAREZ: Hi.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have a comment and a question. My comment is to Leonard Padilla. In the beginning, I really didn`t like him when he got Casey out of jail, but he`s turned out to be a great guy and a good help with this case.

My question is, have they seized another computer from the Anthonys` home since the grandmother sent the e-mail regarding the hairbrush?


CASAREZ: All right. Good question.

Leonard Padilla, we`ll go to you. You do know so much about this case, you are extremely valuable, and our caller confirmed that.

What do you know about a second computer at all that was taken from the home?

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, SEARCHED FOR CAYLEE ANTHONY: Well, I don`t know about that. But what I do know is that Hoover`s cell phone, some still photos and the tape, according to what he told one of the media people in Orlando, have been confiscated by the FBI.

So they have that in their -- also, let me explain something. The meter reader on the 11th, 12th and 13th was about 600 yards off. The place where the kids used to congregate is not where they found the body.

They found the body at the end of a fence that comes right off the meter of the two -- hope spring and the street there where the body was found. They found the body at the end of a fence that comes right off the corner of the two, Hope Spring and the street there where the body was found. So they were off by about 600 yards.

When Dominic and Hoover were out there and Hoover was filming, was off by about 200, maybe 30 yards. Rob Dick is the one that can put more precise measurements to it.

CASAREZ: So how is that videotape going to help anybody, then, if it`s not the precise area?

PADILLA: Well, the body had to be found while Casey was in custody, which would have been the 11th, 12th and 13th. The tip had to come from Casey through a daisy chain to an unsuspecting meter reader that he was being used.

When the body wasn`t found because he was off by 600 yards, then the next thing is lay off because Padilla is getting Casey outs of jail. She went back into custody on the 14th of October. Subsequent to my fiasco up at the Little Econ. they sent Dominic and Hoover back out there.

Dominic`s specific -- Hoover says to me, Dominic says we found the body, we`ve got to go get her. Hoover asks him, is she alive, he says no, she is dead. But we have to go out there.

CASAREZ: And when was this? The date?

PADILLA: The 15th and 16th. Now, I saw the film myself. It says the 15th of November on it, but I know that things can be changed and is I know that, you know, these -- these things are for different purposes.

But I`ll tell you why Hoover filmed it, and that is because he was trying to sell it to media people from New York. I saw a lady there that I worked with on a murder/homicide/missing lady case back in Sacramento in `96.

Her purpose of being there is to buy film for NBC. There was another situation that came up where Hoover himself showed it to a couple of the local media people so I don`t know if they copied it or not.

One last thing. Dominic was not working for the attorney back in August when we were there. He was always represented to us as being an employee of the Anthony family. They always tried to get us to go see him, talk to him, meet with him. We never did. But he was always represented as being a private detective, hired by the Anthony family.

We always thought because of the name confusion that he was some kind of relative. He was not working for the attorney in those days.

CASAREZ: And when did the FBI get the videotape and still pictures you`re talking about from Jim Hoover or who took them?

PADILLA: My understanding is that they actually got it from him around the 17th or 18th of December.

CASAREZ: Of December.

PADILLA: Of December, yes. Somewhere in there.

CASAREZ: So they have -- very interesting. Jennifer.

PADILLA: They have the cell phone.

CASAREZ: Yes.

PADILLA: They have his pictures and also some still photos.

CASAREZ: OK.

PADILLA: . that he had. It`s important to them....

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0812/30/ng.01.html

[lorettalockhorn]

a Daisy Chain. I have never heard that term before except when I was making them with flowers as a child. Does anyone know exactly what a Daisy Chain is referring to when used in the way LP used it?

Okay, here you go (video):

http://daliagirl33.wordpress.com/2008/12/31/nancy-grace-leonard-padilla-says-that-there-is-a-daisy-chain-from-casey-anthony-to-the-meter-reader-roy-kronk-with-brother-lee-anthony-right-in-the-middle/

[lorettalockhorn]

Well that is a thought too. I mean if they had filmed the area by the airport where LE talked and talked and talked about and media would not let it go, I would totally get why investigators for the defense or Anthonys filmed there but the area he videoed was such a low priority area.

ITA If these guys had gone out and videotaped all the areas of interest, it would mean a heckuva lot more with regard to believability. If I'm going to go so far as to even start to think someone planted Caylee's body while Casey was in jail, then I think I'll just hang it on Hoover and D Casey. Let's see how they like them apples.


By the way remember when George was spotted in his car looking into a clump of trees in a certain area. That was not the same general area was it, it was by the airport right? Because that would be too weird if thinigs are not weird enough. Please correct me if I am wrong esp you Gator because you know the area.

It's a little over nine miles from Hidden Oaks Elementary to Orlando International. Haven't figured out how to link it, but go to google maps and "get directions".

[joekuhl79]

I went through all this with the Scott Peterson Case although this has got a much more crazy cast. I don't believe Lee is involved, has LE said they think he is involved or is it just the pundits making guesses on shows like NG.

As far as LP is concerned I would not believe a thing he says, it is all therory and remember he is not an investigator he is a Bounty Hunter. Why NG keeps having him on her show is because they don't have anyone else who actually talked to the Liar. It reminds me of when they removed a guy from the Jury early on in the Peterson case. Although he had nothing valid to say or add they had him on all the shows giving his opinion which was a joke. Once the trial ended and the other Jurors could speak they had nothing nice to say about him and he was wrong in everything he said no wonder he disappeared.

Now lets talk about the duct tape. Has LE or the Medical Examiner said the duct tape was around the head. I don't think they have. I think it was around the top of the bag to keep it closed. Lets think about this. If I put tape around the head of a dead body I am sticking it to the skin,in this case supposely around the mouth or head. When this tissue disintergrates the tape will fall off ,herefore I don't think the tape was on the head or face. Ofcourse this does not mean she was not intentionly killed.

I do think the Liar intentionly killed her child, I feel she should get al least LIPWP or even better death.

About Padilla: He is a bounty hunter, and a bounty hunter needs to have a certain level of investigative ability. I think he's a good guy who is always thinking...he may have some 'out there' theories, though...

About the duct tape: it is very plausible that duct tape wrapped around the head would still be intact after decomposition. How thick is the skin on your skull? On your cheek and mouth? On a three-year-old, we're talking 1/2 inch total? 3/4"? That wouldn't cause enough slack for it to come off, IMO.

[lorettalockhorn]

...Tom Luka says he believes Orange County Sheriff's Office detectives and the State Attorney's Office will likely want to question his client again and possibly charge him.

Luka also believes the state would rather use his client lee to testify instead of George and Cindy Anthony. “Speaking as an ex prosecutor having a parent testify against a child is an extraordinarly sympathetic to a jury and can draw sympathy towards a defendant as opposed to away from them. On the other hand siblings do not have that same sort of connection nor are the liable to break down as far as emotionally evoking the same kind of reaction from a jury.” ...

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=8172318&version=2&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=1.1.1

[eatcupcakes]

Okay, here you go (video):

http://daliagirl33.wordpress.com/2008/12/31/nancy-grace-leonard-padilla-says-that-there-is-a-daisy-chain-from-casey-anthony-to-the-meter-reader-roy-kronk-with-brother-lee-anthony-right-in-the-middle/


Thanks loretta, so it just means at connection. Why did'nt he just say that.

[eatcupcakes]

About Padilla: He is a bounty hunter, and a bounty hunter needs to have a certain level of investigative ability. I think he's a good guy who is always thinking...he may have some 'out there' theories, though...

About the duct tape: it is very plausible that duct tape wrapped around the head would still be intact after decomposition. How thick is the skin on your skull? On your cheek and mouth? On a three-year-old, we're talking 1/2 inch total? 3/4"? That wouldn't cause enough slack for it to come off, IMO.

Of course it would. Stick tape to anything for example wrapping paper on a box. If the paper fell off the tape would go with it. The tape was stuck to the skin, soft tissue, not the skull. Lips are thicker than just skin no matter what age you are.

[lorettalockhorn]

About Padilla: He is a bounty hunter, and a bounty hunter needs to have a certain level of investigative ability. I think he's a good guy who is always thinking...he may have some 'out there' theories, though...

About the duct tape: it is very plausible that duct tape wrapped around the head would still be intact after decomposition. How thick is the skin on your skull? On your cheek and mouth? On a three-year-old, we're talking 1/2 inch total? 3/4"? That wouldn't cause enough slack for it to come off, IMO.

Padilla is pathetic. He should go home until when and if he is subpoenaed. He just seems to want to plant himself in the middle of this case anymore.

Don't think that LE has said whether or not the duct tape was wrapped around Caylee's head, but it has definitely been put out there that it was, and that the duct tape would adhere to the skin/flesh and perhaps preserve some of it. But from what Dr. G said, there doesn't seem to be any tissue left. She said that the remains were completely skeletonized and disarticulated. That tells me that decomposition along with animals and insects have cleaned her bones.

[lorettalockhorn]

Thanks loretta, so it just means at connection. Why did'nt he just say that.

Because he's a drama queen? Er uh king. Honestly, I think that he thinks it increases his stature somehow to be smack dab in the middle of this case (even if it's only in his own mind). Nancy needs to buy him airfare home.

[FDInLaw]

IMO so much hangs on the duct tape and any possible physical evidence now that there is a body. If Casey's dna, prints, hair are on the duct tape I don't see how a jury can ignore that. The question may arise as to whether or not Casey had help, BUT she should still be deemed culpable. My bet is that the body was there all along, shifted by water, etc. Is it possible that when the video was taken that the bag was hidden from view by bushes???? Maybe it just could not be seen by that vantage point?

This is one crazy case!

[Gatordog]

Short and TO THE POINT! Honestly, I can see the second autopsy and the funeral arrangements dragging on for some time. Think I read that the Anthonys have put the kibosh on asking for donations. Hope so. As for the Ants getting Casey to accept responsibility; not holding my breath.

The Ants did not ask for donations for a funeral. That was a rumor started on NG. I haven't heard one plea for funds and Mark from the Orlando radio station also said on NG that it was news to him if they had asked for funds. Last week they said the money that was in the Caylee fund would be donated to a children's rescue organization and any money recently donated would be returned.

Gator

[Gatordog]

IMO so much hangs on the duct tape and any possible physical evidence now that there is a body. If Casey's dna, prints, hair are on the duct tape I don't see how a jury can ignore that. The question may arise as to whether or not Casey had help, BUT she should still be deemed culpable. My bet is that the body was there all along, shifted by water, etc. Is it possible that when the video was taken that the bag was hidden from view by bushes???? Maybe it just could not be seen by that vantage point?

This is one crazy case!

Even if there are no prints on the tape, they can place duct tape in the posession of the Liar. Amy's email states that the Liar had her duct tape. If Amy can tell them where she bought it and when, they can match the kind of tape.

[FDInLaw]

Even if there are no prints on the tape, they can place duct tape in the posession of the Liar. Amy's email states that the Liar had her duct tape. If Amy can tell them where she bought it and when, they can match the kind of tape.The presence of physical evidence that is not Casey's could be really damaging but it could easily happen since the sides of duct tape can be sticky. . . or am I worrying for nothing here? IMO there could be dna evidence that points to a few people unless the perp bought the tape wrapped and was the only one that touched it (how likely is that?). Mind you, prints/evidence found on the sticky side will trump all this. Ugh, my mind is going in circles today. . . I'm probably making a mountain out of a mole hill.


Mind you, duct tape does not last long in our home. . .

http://daddytypes.com/archive/duct_tape_baby_mianro.jpg

[eatcupcakes]

Because he's a drama queen? Er uh king. Honestly, I think that he thinks it increases his stature somehow to be smack dab in the middle of this case (even if it's only in his own mind). Nancy needs to buy him airfare home.


:beer:Can't stand the man. Both NG and the show right before her should only be 30 minutes. They repeat the same thing over and over again and they have questionable people on because they are just beating a dead horse until the LE releases more info.

Basic truth is the Liar did it, she is in jail where she should stay, and she will.
They already had enough evidence to convience a Grand Jury to charge her even before Caylee was found and I bet my last dollar they have more now.

[eatcupcakes]

Padilla is pathetic. He should go home until when and if he is subpoenaed. He just seems to want to plant himself in the middle of this case anymore.

Don't think that LE has said whether or not the duct tape was wrapped around Caylee's head, but it has definitely been put out there that it was, and that the duct tape would adhere to the skin/flesh and perhaps preserve some of it. But from what Dr. G said, there doesn't seem to be any tissue left. She said that the remains were completely skeletonized and disarticulated. That tells me that decomposition along with animals and insects have cleaned her bones.

Even if there is no duct tape, they have enough to convict the Liar, Remember the cadaver dogs hit on her trunk and they found hair in the trunk that had a death ban on it. Since hair was found on the skull they should be able to match that to the hair in the trunk. Lets not forget the Liar did not report her daughter missing for a month and during that month there are pictures of the Liar partying hardy. If I were on the jury and knew nothing of this case this information would be enough for me to convict the Liar.

[Gatordog]

ITA If these guys had gone out and videotaped all the areas of interest, it would mean a heckuva lot more with regard to believability. If I'm going to go so far as to even start to think someone planted Caylee's body while Casey was in jail, then I think I'll just hang it on Hoover and D Casey. Let's see how they like them apples.




It's a little over nine miles from Hidden Oaks Elementary to Orlando International. Haven't figured out how to link it, but go to google maps and "get directions".

George wasn't looking into the woods at the airport, it was on Hoffner. It is about three or four miles at the most. It's just south and west of where they live.

[tv]

your nic always makes me so hungry. It is very hard to keep up with this case. since June it feels like a circus and I am sure there will be books and movies. there are somethings I am doubtful of such as the video and Lee being involved very much but it is a wait and see for the most part. I just hope justice is done. I do get very upset about the duct tape because I thought Casey had made a mistake at first but the duct tape changes all that. Anyways everyone have a good night

Loretta I just love coconut cake. any time any dayDon't I have the dumbest nic ever, lol? I'm stuck with it now.

I don't know what to believe anymore. LP always sounds like he knows exactly what he's talking about and then something happens to make him change his whole theory. I was right there with him on her being near the airport and now it's all changed. At this point I'm just trying to keep up with all the players and new information.

[lorettalockhorn]

IMO so much hangs on the duct tape and any possible physical evidence now that there is a body. If Casey's dna, prints, hair are on the duct tape I don't see how a jury can ignore that. The question may arise as to whether or not Casey had help, BUT she should still be deemed culpable. My bet is that the body was there all along, shifted by water, etc. Is it possible that when the video was taken that the bag was hidden from view by bushes???? Maybe it just could not be seen by that vantage point?

This is one crazy case!

Sure, we all hope that there is more evidence at the scene where Caylee was dumped, but if there isn't (including nothing on the duct tape), the circumstantial evidence can hang Casey, coupled with the evidence in the trunk. And when/if the jury hears the theory that the nanny did it, and there is no nanny, they will conclude that Casey had reason to lie, and she will be punished.

[FDInLaw]

Sure, we all hope that there is more evidence at the scene where Caylee was dumped, but if there isn't (including nothing on the duct tape), the circumstantial evidence can hang Casey, coupled with the evidence in the trunk. And when/if the jury hears the theory that the nanny did it, and there is no nanny, they will conclude that Casey had reason to lie, and she will be punished.
I would like to hope that it will be that simple. Call me a pessimist, but this case is doomed to get even more complicated IMO. Let's hope you are right.

[lorettalockhorn]

The Ants did not ask for donations for a funeral. That was a rumor started on NG. I haven't heard one plea for funds and Mark from the Orlando radio station also said on NG that it was news to him if they had asked for funds. Last week they said the money that was in the Caylee fund would be donated to a children's rescue organization and any money recently donated would be returned.

Gator

Any news that I have posted here came from the media (I believe it was first reported by WFTV) and almost always include a link. I didn't say that the Anthonys did ask for donations, I said that they had put the kibosh on that. If you read back, you will see that there was much discussion on the topic, including the fact that apparently one of the funds included monies to cover the cost of a burial, and some talk that there is no charge to bury a child under the age of three (which I've never heard of, but may well be true).

George wasn't looking into the woods at the airport, it was on Hoffner. It is about three or four miles at the most. It's just south and west of where they live.

I think it was mu8 who asked about the airport being in the general area. I don't consider nine miles to be "general area".

[lorettalockhorn]

I would like to hope that it will be that simple. Call me a pessimist, but this case is doomed to get even more complicated IMO. Let's hope you are right.

Of COURSE it's going to get more complicated. We've only heard HALF the fstory according to Baez.

[tv]

Of COURSE it's going to get more complicated. We've only heard HALF the fstory according to Baez.


I think BAEZ has only heard half the story and if Casey is the one providing the other half he keeps talking about it's going to be an eye-popper. Good thing for her that her nose doesn't grow every time she lies! :eek:

[FDInLaw]

I think BAEZ has only heard half the story and if Casey is the one providing the other half he keeps talking about it's going to be an eye-popper. Good thing for her that her nose doesn't grow every time she lies! :eek:
LOL. . . no kidding! There would be no cell that could keep her!

[lorettalockhorn]

I think BAEZ has only heard half the story and if Casey is the one providing the other half he keeps talking about it's going to be an eye-popper. Good thing for her that her nose doesn't grow every time she lies! :eek:

LMAO I saw an avatar on another board where someone had photoshopped Pinocchio's nose onto a pic of Casey. I'll try to find it.

BTW Do you come in salisbury steak?!?!?!

[FDInLaw]

ORANGE COUNTY, FL -- Orlando station WFTV is reporting that duct tape was stuck to the mouth of a child whose remains were found Thursday near the home of Casey Anthony. WFTV says the information comes from sources close to the investigation.
http://www.abcactionnews.com/mostpopular/story/Duct-tape-found-mouth-child-remains-caylee-anthony/fb2lC4QFU0mLE6wIEPAUVA.cspx

[tv]

LMAO I saw an avatar on another board where someone had photoshopped Pinocchio's nose onto a pic of Casey. I'll try to find it.

BTW Do you come in salisbury steak?!?!?!Yes, I do, with your choice of mashed potatoes or mac and cheese! I try to be flexible. Oh no, now I'm getting hungry!

I'd love to see that picture of Casey with the nose!

[lorettalockhorn]

Actually, there have been reports that there was duct tape "around" the bag:

Local 6 News reporter Jessica D'Onofrio confirmed that the remains are likely that of a girl. D'Onofrio said the worker saw the garbage bag, opened it, saw the remains of a child and called 911. The skull was found nearby, and there was duct tape in and around the garbage bag, D'Onofrio reported.

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/18253078/detail.html

Whether that means in the vicinity of the bag, or used to secure the bag is hard to tell. We may have to wait until a document dump to learn the specifics of the discovery of Caylee's body. Then again, with the new information of the new video, it may take awhile if the information is withheld while the investigation continues.

[lorettalockhorn]

I've never read that LP is an attorney. We know he's an ex-con, David Lohr's research showed that he duped people into using his web-site to donate to TES rendering their contributions non-tax deductible. We've heard Tim Miller's allegation that he wanted TM to join in the search at the Little Econ so as to turn the discovery of Caylee's remains into a photo op. The man is a media wh0re with some crazy, crazy theories. Don't see why NG continues to give him air time.

If LE links Lee to the crime, I won't be surprised. But this whole business has turned up some pathetic and seedy characters, and LP is one of them in my book. If he's going to continue shooting his mouth off, I hope his theories are either confirmed or put to rest ASAP.

[Gatordog]

I've never read that LP is an attorney. We know he's an ex-con, David Lohr's research showed that he duped people into using his web-site to donate to TES rendering their contributions non-tax deductible. We've heard Tim Miller's allegation that he wanted TM to join in the search at the Little Econ so as to turn the discovery of Caylee's remains into a photo op. The man is a media wh0re with some crazy, crazy theories. Don't see why NG continues to give him air time.

If LE links Lee to the crime, I won't be surprised. But this whole business has turned up some pathetic and seedy characters, and LP is one of them in my book. If he's going to continue shooting his mouth off, I hope his theories are either confirmed or put to rest ASAP.

The business card that he gave me listed him as a graduate of a law school, don't remember which. doesn't say whether or not he passed the bar.


Gator

[Gatordog]

Hold onto your socks friends and take a sip of haterade. I just received a summons in the mail to appear for JURY DUTY. It's for February. I might be questioned for the Liar's jury. They may want to question locals to prove they need a change of venue.

No problem...everyone is guilty until they prove they are innocent. :D

Gator

[Gatordog]

Hey, Loretta, make sure you keep Leroy warm... cause in my neck of woods, it's 24 degrees and this snow aint stopping! I'm freezin! :seeya:

Remember those first reports, about Kronk making a pee pee and finding the bag, kicking the bag, and a skull rolling out? Then we heard the Aug. 911 calls and that apparently wasn't right because he states he sees something white under the tree with/or next to the bag? Is she misreporting the find, and HTH could she say it was a girl ?(although we all surmised :( it was Caylee) . That wasn't verified till later. Everyone in the media jumps in with news, and I'm just Fbumfuzzeled about who is reporting the real deal, and who's just jumping in with reports for ratings.

So we know by various documented sources the tape was around the mouth and head (MOO the hair kept it kind of attached) and it does sound reasonable that Casey might have taped the bag too....your link is actually the first time I heard about it around the bag....could be! LE hasn't reported that, or did they? Too much to digest!

Whatyouthink?


I haven't seen or heard of any statements by the police that duct tape was on the skull. I have a memory of Carlos Padilla, OCSO spokesperson and I remember him saying duct tape was found but not the condition or if it was attached to anything. I was under the impression that it was used to seal the bag. I think that a reporter on WESH reported that a statement from the meter reader indicated duct tape around the mouth area. I take that with a grain of salt since it was also reported that he hadn't talked with anyone.

Gator

[Mojo]

I have to tell you that all this news about the private eye having video of the scene a month before she was found makes me sick. Then to hear LP say last night they mentioned it back in August makes me really sick. I just keep thinking that surely they told G & C since they were working for them? If this is the case, I have lost all respect (not that I had much to begin with) for them. I cannot believe that they would knowing leave that poor baby's remains out in the muddy swamp for months without getting her out. All this to save that sorry piece of shiz, baby killing, lying, cheating, stealing sorry excuse for a human being they raised. May they all rot!:flamemad:

[Mojo]

Hold onto your socks friends and take a sip of haterade. I just received a summons in the mail to appear for JURY DUTY. It's for February. I might be questioned for the Liar's jury. They may want to question locals to prove they need a change of venue.

No problem...everyone is guilty until they prove they are innocent. :D

Gator

SWEET!! :beer:

[lorettalockhorn]

Hold onto your socks friends and take a sip of haterade. I just received a summons in the mail to appear for JURY DUTY. It's for February. I might be questioned for the Liar's jury. They may want to question locals to prove they need a change of venue.

No problem...everyone is guilty until they prove they are innocent. :D

Gator

LMAO If their name is Anthony, anyway!

[FDInLaw]

Hold onto your socks friends and take a sip of haterade. I just received a summons in the mail to appear for JURY DUTY. It's for February. I might be questioned for the Liar's jury. They may want to question locals to prove they need a change of venue.

No problem...everyone is guilty until they prove they are innocent. :D

Gator
ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wouldn't that be something! We won't tell lol. :D

[FDInLaw]

I have to tell you that all this news about the private eye having video of the scene a month before she was found makes me sick. Then to hear LP say last night they mentioned it back in August makes me really sick. I just keep thinking that surely they told G & C since they were working for them? If this is the case, I have lost all respect (not that I had much to begin with) for them. I cannot believe that they would knowing leave that poor baby's remains out in the muddy swamp for months without getting her out. All this to save that sorry piece of shiz, baby killing, lying, cheating, stealing sorry excuse for a human being they raised. May they all rot!:flamemad:

I was :cuss: when it was first reported that the bag had been called in months earlier. . . un-freakin'-believable! :flamemad:

[Gatordog]

By the way remember when George was spotted in his car looking into a clump of trees in a certain area. That was not the same general area was it, it was by the airport right? Because that would be too weird if thinigs are not weird enough. Please correct me if I am wrong esp you Gator because you know the area.

The area George was looking at is Hoffner Blvd. It's about three mikes south of the airport and closer to the anthony house. It's south west of them and about seven minutes by car.

[lorettalockhorn]

Hey, Loretta, make sure you keep Leroy warm... cause in my neck of woods, it's 24 degrees and this snow aint stopping! I'm freezin! :seeya:

Remember those first reports, about Kronk making a pee pee and finding the bag, kicking the bag, and a skull rolling out? Then we heard the Aug. 911 calls and that apparently wasn't right because he states he sees something white under the tree with/or next to the bag? Is she misreporting the find, and HTH could she say it was a girl ?(although we all surmised :( it was Caylee) . That wasn't verified till later. Everyone in the media jumps in with news, and I'm just Fbumfuzzeled about who is reporting the real deal, and who's just jumping in with reports for ratings.

So we know by various documented sources the tape was around the mouth and head (MOO the hair kept it kind of attached) and it does sound reasonable that Casey might have taped the bag too....your link is actually the first time I heard about it around the bag....could be! LE hasn't reported that, or did they? Too much to digest!

Whatyouthink?

It's supposed to be in the 20s here tonight. It's been warm enough that I've actually seen my koi up near the surface of one of the ponds twice in two days! I'll keep Leroy warm if he'll shell some walnuts for the rugelach that I won't to make. (Not sure why I was calling it kugel yesterday. Maybe it was the valium talking.)

I really don't know what to think about the reports of duct tape literally wrapped around Caylee's head; I respect Jennifer D'O as much as any other reporter, but the word "around" can easily be misconstrued having more than one definition. I think we'll just have to wait. In the meantime, I'll think the worst about Casey and be pleasantly surprised if the tape was only across the baby's mouth.

[jas72]

By the way one thing I did catch on NG was Leonard saying the video was taken about 600 yards from where the body was found and I suspect some informant who has seen it since it was given to LE already has calculated this. IF this is true, that is 6 GD football fields for F's sake and really could not qualify as the PI said as the exact area.! I have a feeling the talking head who said somebody was trying to make a concerted effort to raise reasonable doubt and it was an organized effort is right on target. After all those of us who follow the case closely will eventually wait with baited breath to see when and exactly where that video was taken. We will have it clarified . Someone else in the jury pool who tunes in every now and then might just hear that a video was taken a month before and nothing more and assume, wow the body was really not there. I think somebody is hoping by talking like this, prospective jurors will assume they really have something to say to muddy the waters and it may turn out to be totally irrelevant.

I thought he said 300 yds, but in either case, that is still a pretty far distance from where the remains were actually found. As you may have surmised from my other posts, I play golf, so I have a fairly good idea as to what 300 yds looks like, and 3 (or 6) football fields away might as well be 300 miles away as far as that video goes. If the video they keep showing is that area, then it isn't very telling as to whether or not there could have been remains in that area. There are some very large trees, behind which could be any number of remains. There is also some fairly thick underbrush which could have contained remains as well. I don't know what people expect to see in that footage. An adult-sized corpse that appears as if someone were lying down taking a nap? I don't think so. To me, that tape is totally useless and doesn't prove a thing. Unless the tape shows someone covering nearly every square inch of that area, it doesn't prove anything. Plus, it's very easy to change the date stamp on a video camera and make it say whatever date you want it to. I don't see it as any big deal, frankly.

[Gatordog]

It's supposed to be in the 20s here tonight. It's been warm enough that I've actually seen my koi up near the surface of one of the ponds twice in two days! I'll keep Leroy warm if he'll shell some walnuts for the rugelach that I won't to make. (Not sure why I was calling it kugel yesterday. Maybe it was the valium talking.)

I really don't know what to think about the reports of duct tape literally wrapped around Caylee's head; I respect Jennifer D'O as much as any other reporter, but the word "around" can easily be misconstrued having more than one definition. I think we'll just have to wait. In the meantime, I'll think the worst about Casey and be pleasantly surprised if the tape was only across the baby's mouth.

Oh Loretta, rugelah is just my favorite. When it is baking, the house smells just wonderful. I'm making a sweet potato/banana pie with pecan struesel topping. I saw Tyler florence make it as a casserole and I modified it to a pie. If you eat a piece of rugelah for me, I'll eat a piece of pie for you. :)

Gator

[FDInLaw]

Oh Loretta, rugelah is just my favorite. When it is baking, the house smells just wonderful. I'm making a sweet potato/banana pie with pecan stressuel topping. I saw Tyler florence make it as a casserole and I modified it to a pie. If you neat a piece of rugelah for me, I'll eat a piece of pie for you. :)

Gator
Gosh, I feel quaint for merely baking sugar cookies. . . I need to come up with something fancy too!!!!!! :o

[lorettalockhorn]

Gosh, I feel quaint for merely baking sugar cookies. . . I need to come up with something fancy too!!!!!! :o

I take it your not a fan of Jewish cooking or Ina Garten? Well, then you probably don't practically stalk her like I do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :hat:

Gator, I love reading and sharing recipes almost as much as I like eating. There's a food forum (or thread here), but it doesn't get a lot of business for some reason.

BTW Y'all got your peas on for tomorrow?

[jas72]

Found this in Wikipedia. I wonder if it's the same LP. Not exactly something to be proud of if it's true.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Northern_California,_Lorenzo_Pati%C3 %B1o_School_of_Law

[lorettalockhorn]

Yes it seems every word in this case can have a very broad term. I confess I haven't heard the word "around" as often as I've heard the words "Across the mouth" but the hair sticking to it gives me the visual of "around the head/skull"

I tasted Kugel once and I have been chasing it since. I fell in love with it, tried to make it using online recipe's and haven't found it since Miller's Delicatessen closed. How could they!!! I want kugel!! And what is Rugelach? Today I made "Pasta ra thadd" for this wonderful wintery snowy day. That's home made pasta dough grated on the cheese grater, and boiled in onion tomato thin sauce. Wonderful warmer for tummy.

Visibility here is about 10 feet. I can't see my car! Stay warm and safe.

The only pasta I've ever made is potato gnocchi. Gimme your recipe!

Here's Ina's rugelach recipe:

http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/ina-garten/rugelach-recipe/index.html

Maybe you could post a request at Chowhound for Miller's kugel recipe?

http://chowhound.chow.com/

[javahog]

Hold onto your socks friends and take a sip of haterade. I just received a summons in the mail to appear for JURY DUTY. It's for February. I might be questioned for the Liar's jury. They may want to question locals to prove they need a change of venue.

No problem...everyone is guilty until they prove they are innocent. :D

Gator

Noooooo! Don't get on it! It will give them something appealable when, oh, I mean IF, she's convicted...

But have a lot of fun "expressing" yourself when they ask their questions:beer:

[lorettalockhorn]

Found this in Wikipedia. I wonder if it's the same LP. Not exactly something to be proud of if it's true.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Northern_California,_Lorenzo_Pati%C3 %B1o_School_of_Law

Just found a post at WS that states he's a graduate of Lincoln law school and on the board at Lorenzo Patino. (For whatever it's worth.)

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3015233

Not sure law degree and attorney are synonymous. Most people list the states where they are admitted to the bar on a business card.

[Gatordog]

:confused: and you know, I distinctly remember NG discussing it, saying the tape was not only around her mouth, but Around to the back of her head...I was cursing at the tv and NG, saying WTH did she have to EMBELLISH so damn much, ie "A R O U N D the head" and be so damn dramatic :flamemad:

Gee, I hope I'm not Losing it!!!!...can I have some rugelah, I'll send some biscotti & struffoli over.........(good thing all our goodies are fat free!!:biggrin:)

Struffoli...I haven't had that in 20 years and we were just talking about it at my niece's wedding. All these wonderful foods are making me hungry. I could really enoy that onion/tomato pasta that Danagher is making.

Gator

[jas72]

Just found a post at WS that states he's a graduate of Lincoln law school and on the board at Lorenzo Patino. (For whatever it's worth.)

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3015233

Not sure law degree and attorney are synonymous. Most people list the states where they are admitted to the bar on a business card.

I'm not sure,either. I guess you can graduate from law school and if you never pass the bar, then you can't practice law. The rate of students who passed the bar from Lorenzp Patino isn't very high, but then again, the number of grads was very low, too. Thanks for the info.

[lorettalockhorn]

Peas? We do the lentils here. (For good luck) I love Jewish food. Two of our close friends are Jewish attorneys. One refuses to have a Christmas tree and the other eats Italian pork sausage. They won't cook Jewish food for me. I should threaten them with this case. (They hate when I talk law at parties)
:(

In the South, we tout black eyed peas, but I cannot stand them, so I use purple hulls. I'll cook some with okra steamed on top to serve with a pork butt or ham, cornbread, turnips, and greens. That's for Leroy and whoever else shows up. I'm making hoppin' John for me and My Little Love.

I have Joan Nathan's Jewish Holiday cookbook; it's really great! hmmm Maybe I should buy Ruth Madoff's cookbook to support the Jewish National Fund in case she ends up needing an attorney and they need to help her out of a jam.

[lorettalockhorn]

Struffoli...I haven't had that in 20 years and we were just talking about it at my niece's wedding. All these wonderful foods are making me hungry. I could really enoy that onion/tomato pasta that Danagher is making.

Gator

I'm making a couple of muffalettas, the onion tomato pasta recipe would be great to go with if it's souplike.

We should resurrect the food thread. My stomach just growled.

[lorettalockhorn]

If anyone is interested:link to "The Kitchen at CL" forum:

http://boards.crimelibrary.com/forumdisplay.php?f=453

[FDInLaw]

Just saw this and had to share:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f98/TxStarr29/image002.jpg



Wishing everyone on this forum a Happy New Year!

Here's to justice for Caylee in the New Year! :beer:

[lorettalockhorn]

Just saw this and had to share:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f98/TxStarr29/image002.jpg



Wishing everyone on this forum a Happy New Year!

Here's to justice for Caylee in the New Year! :beer:


BWAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAAA

Amen. God bless you Caylee.

[SaraSidle]

my goodness I am so happy to be posting with eatcupcakes,danagher,jas72 and old soul and I am very sorry for the time I have missed with you. I have followed this story from the start.
I do think that LP was really trying from the start to find Caylee and he is probably a great Bounty hunter. But he has not been close to the truth. I keep hoping he has correct info but it never happens.
I am very sick about the duct tape. I gave Casey the benefit of the doubt that Caylee's death was an accident. Duct tape around the mouth is not an accident.
I am also sick about the fact we could have found her in August and there would be a lot more evidence. This is not the sickest crime I have read about but it is very strange with all the twists and turns. I never thought I would day this but I am glad Florida has the death penalty. All my own opinion.

[Woostock]

Sara
It's ironic that you said that about the DP. I was thinking the same thing. I have never been in favor of it until now and indeed I am leaning toward that in this case. The duct tape over the mouth is just deplorable. That's no accident. Happy New Year to you all.
We are in the midst of a snowstorm......

[SaraSidle]

Sara
It's ironic that you said that about the DP. I was thinking the same thing. I have never been in favor of it until now and indeed I am leaning toward that in this case. The duct tape over the mouth is just deplorable. That's no accident. Happy New Year to you all.
We are in the midst of a snowstorm......

that is so wierd Woostock cause I feel the same way. I have never been in favor of DP especially when so many people have been proven innocent by dna but if it is there in this case I am for it. All children should be safe and she was such a sweetie. I clearly cannot comprehend Casey's actions.

Happy New years to you and everyone. It has been snowing all day here

[SaraSidle]

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!! Yer killin me I tell ya! Can you tell me why you do this to me?
LOL!!!!!!

;)

loretta you just made my DH go crazy. We have none of those things in MI
Maybe tvdinner could send us one

[eatcupcakes]

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAAA

Amen. God bless you Caylee.

I am not drinking egg nog ever again, LMAO. By the way I made 24 Carrot Cupcakes w/ cream cheese frosting for a party tonight, I will be happy to share. Happy New Year one and all. You guys are great.

[tv]

loretta you just made my DH go crazy. We have none of those things in MI
Maybe tvdinner could send us one

I did a lot of cooking and baking for Christmas but now I have to work tonight and tomorrow night...yuck! No real New Years celebration for me. We're all going to bring in food for work -- I supppose that will have to do.

Everyone here have a HAPPY and SAFE New Year's and I'll see you in 2009!!

[lorettalockhorn]

:cuss:

No lunch, and you guys are talking all this good stuff! My mouth is watering!
I have to run to the A & P now to get ingredients for my clam n cheese dip to bring to my SIL for tonite. Gonna make 5 layer dip too. I'll catch up with you later.


I'm Sooooooooo HUNGRY!!!!!!! Damn you all !!!!!!!! Now you have my stomach Growling...!

:seeya:

Man, that brings back memories. We had A&P Food Stores when we lived in Louisiana a hundred years ago. Our housekeeper called it the A & Poo Feed Store. Never could figure out if she was kidding, or Mrs. Malaprop's cousin, or what! :hat:

Y'all just made me bake off some mini-quiches and spanikopitas. But I wub ya anyway! http://i2.tinypic.com/2z4d382.jpg

[SaraSidle]

I am not drinking egg nog ever again, LMAO. By the way I made 24 Carrot Cupcakes w/ cream cheese frosting for a party tonight, I will be happy to share. Happy New Year one and all. You guys are great.

I have not seen an A&P for years also. but I always hated eggnog. DH drinks it like there is no tomorrow. I love clam and cheese dip and carrot cake with cream cheese frosting. now you are really making me hungry.
Happy New Years to all of you and thanks so much for caring about Caylee.

[lorettalockhorn]

I am not drinking egg nog ever again, LMAO. By the way I made 24 Carrot Cupcakes w/ cream cheese frosting for a party tonight, I will be happy to share. Happy New Year one and all. You guys are great.

http://i33.tinypic.com/2mri9a9.jpg

[eatcupcakes]

I see many of my fellow posters were up burning the midnight oil, and I daresay soon you will have Sara drinking the hagnog with you...Yea! To address cupcake's post, cupcake, Padilla is also an atty. He is well respected we have been told, in his experience and circle of peers. He's no dummy. Here, I think we are at 50/50 regarding how we all feel about him. Yes, he's got a bigger than life persona, with that hat and his black clothes. Yes, he's a showman. But at a time when needed most, LP put out his own $ for the divers and search to keep looking for Caylee while all others thought it was a moot point. He gets my respect because he kept on, and honestly, to this day, I don't care what his 'true' motive might have been..fact is He was the Only one. He also called a spade, a spade re casey. Immediately, he knew he made a mistake, said so, and backed out..too bad she was on to him, the sneak!

As Jean and others said last night, this case will be up there with Nicole and Ron's murder, JonBenet's, and Laci's murder. But, we see what a circus it's become, and to have people around with experience cannot hurt. Outside looking in so to speak.

About that duct tape........It was wrapped around Caylee's mouth into her hair, not around the bag to keep it closed. It was taped to part of what was left of her hair and skull. I imagine the hair held it there. (we were all hoping it was the bag..too horrid to think that SOB put that around her little mouth while she was alive! Unfortunately, that IS what she did, because as Dr. Perper said, "no need to wrap duct tape around the mouth of someone who is deceased. It would be to stifle a scream or cry." Our only hope is that Caylee's hair attached to that tape is going to tell us if she has been 'drugged' in any way before,and if so, with what, or possible traces of chloroform still clinging (highly doubtful). I was thinking, even if there was the tiniest bit of tissue clinging to that tape, what are the chances chloroform could still be detected? The chloroform is used on a cloth and placed directly over the mouth and nose, so...........if tissue is there......:shrug: This is where that saying 'you are what you eat' comes in ~ everything shows up in the hair. Also, if you have ever seen pics of bodies that wound up unearthed, the hair is still present, even after many years. Hopefully the chemical composition in her hair could still be viable, despite the water, and will give them something to use against Casey.

Welcome!:seeya:

Okay lets see where to start. Just because LP is an attorney does not give him inside info in this case. I dare say if he is an attorney it is not in FLA. I have not heard it mentioned that he is an attorney, where did that come from. Also Dr. Perper was saying that if if, the key word here is if, if there was duct tape around the childs head it would have to be put there when she was alive,because there would be no need to put it on a dead person. However he did not confirm that the duct tape exists. And since he did not examine the body I don't believe he knows anymore than you aor I.

What I think you are missing is most of these people are just spectulating. LE has not offically said anything about what was found on the body.

Personally I hope something was found to show the Liar intended to kill this poor little girl then they can ask for the Death Penalty.

[SaraSidle]

I did a lot of cooking and baking for Christmas but now I have to work tonight and tomorrow night...yuck! No real New Years celebration for me. We're all going to bring in food for work -- I supppose that will have to do.

Everyone here have a HAPPY and SAFE New Year's and I'll see you in 2009!!

Hey tvdinner that could be a good thing. you will get full. Happy New Years to you also.

[tv]

Hey tvdinner that could be a good thing. you will get full. Happy New Years to you also.

Thanks, Sara! :):seeya:

[SaraSidle]

Thank you Sara, I've enjoyed your input from the minute you returned. Yes, Padilla is a bit of a character. He throws out a lot of assumptions and his presentation is kind of foolish because he makes statements that are not backed by facts. The reason I like to listen to him is, he was in that godforsaken house and I want to know what went on in there. After Casey threw him out, he seemed bent on revenge and I'll do some presuming now and say he was so angry with her that he wants to find the proof that will convict her. He hates her, but I'm not sure if he hates her because she killed Caylee or because she threw him out of the house and humiliated him.

Yes the duct tape blew our minds. I'm with you on that. I never gave the death penalty much thought in the past, but it's in my thoughts now because of this case. The only problem I have with that is, I believe death is easy and there is a pleasant arrival to a better place. Besides that, I would rather she didn't enjoy being where Caylee is and I also believe Caylee has forgiven her from where she is now. If I ruled the world, I'd leave her in the hell hole she's in right now for the next 60 years. May she grow old and sickly in prison alone. I don't want to hate anyone, but GOd forgive me, I hate that piece of crap of a human being.
I completely agree danagher. It is so very frustrating. IMO I feel exactly the same way.

[SaraSidle]

Thanks, Sara! :):seeya:

DH and I stay home and order out. Not a big deal for us anymore. but food is good always

[SaraSidle]

It's dark out already and the street is empty of cars and folks. On New Years Eve we usually go out to eat but this year I've opted out because I doubt we'd make it back up the driveway which is a 200 foot steep hill. I thought about walking to the the restaurant nearby for kicks and giggles but I'm sure we won't be laughing when we fall on our arses walking up the driveway. So I'll get to the tasks I've ignored all day because I'm reading here and see you later.

:beer:

LOL we have been staying home for years and ordering out. too many wierdos on the street. Is it RI Danagher? DH and I have a bet. Happy New years!!!!!!!!!!!

[SaraSidle]

Okay lets see where to start. Just because LP is an attorney does not give him inside info in this case. I dare say if he is an attorney it is not in FLA. I have not heard it mentioned that he is an attorney, where did that come from. Also Dr. Perper was saying that if if, the key word here is if, if there was duct tape around the childs head it would have to be put there when she was alive,because there would be no need to put it on a dead person. However he did not confirm that the duct tape exists. And since he did not examine the body I don't believe he knows anymore than you aor I.

What I think you are missing is most of these people are just spectulating. LE has not offically said anything about what was found on the body.

Personally I hope something was found to show the Liar intended to kill this poor little girl then they can ask for the Death Penalty.

IMO good thinking and logical. I am assuming things will be uncovered in the trial.

[eatcupcakes]

The business card that he gave me listed him as a graduate of a law school, don't remember which. doesn't say whether or not he passed the bar.


Gator

PLEASE, anyone can have cards printed that say they are whomever they want to be, no one asks for proof or ID. Today people make their own cards on their computers. I really don't believe he is anything but and ex-con who became a Bounty Hunter, just like Dog.

[eatcupcakes]

It's dark out already and the street is empty of cars and folks. On New Years Eve we usually go out to eat but this year I've opted out because I doubt we'd make it back up the driveway which is a 200 foot steep hill. I thought about walking to the the restaurant nearby for kicks and giggles but I'm sure we won't be laughing when we fall on our arses walking up the driveway. So I'll get to the tasks I've ignored all day because I'm reading here and see you later.

:beer:

Oh my goodness, 200 ft hill to get to your house that is quite a hike. I am in Phoenix and it is 72 here today. My dad lives with us, he is 92 and very sharp. He treated me to the Olive Garden today for lunch and it was Yummy. Tonight my husband is making me go to a Party, which I dread. I would rather curl up in my bed and watch all the crazy young people in Time Square.

Gee Whiz if the Liar had not killed her beautiful little girl she could be out partying tonight. It must be killing her to be stuck in jail. LMAO

[Gatordog]

http://www.leonardpadilla.net

[Peachallie]

The duct tape was probably there because the delicate CASEY didn't like the thought or sight of insets in the moist area of the mouth. This is a TWO year old, there was little need to silence her. If Casey Anthony intended to kill tiny Caylee she could do it very quickly & easily. The attorneys for the state know the law; the possibility of death penalty was withdrawn because they cannot make a case wherein it is allowed under Florida law.

The grandparents have now formally requested immunity; if it is granted, do NOT expect the state to push for a 782.04 (1)(a) conviction at trial. (I think if the elder Anthony's are granted immunity a plea will be worked out before March).

[Gatordog]

WESH had an interview with Brad Conway, G&C's attorney. He stated that the immunity request was his job to demand and the Anthony's never mentioned it or requested it. He said that's what he's been hired to do, represent them. He also said that no duct was removed from the house during the searches. And last but far from least, he said the Anthony's will cooperate fully with LE and will turn over anything that is requested even if it harmful to their daughter's case. They will answer all questions and work with police and not protect Casey. IMO - I will need proof of that before I believe it.

Gator

[Gatordog]

The duct tape was probably there because the delicate CASEY didn't like the thought or sight of insets in the moist area of the mouth. This is a TWO year old, there was little need to silence her. If Casey Anthony intended to kill tiny Caylee she could do it very quickly & easily. The attorneys for the state know the law; the possibility of death penalty was withdrawn because they cannot make a case wherein it is allowed under Florida law.

The grandparents have now formally requested immunity; if it is granted, do NOT expect the state to push for a 782.04 (1)(a) conviction at trial. (I think if the elder Anthony's are granted immunity a plea will be worked out before March).

I don't agree Peach. Caylee was almost three years old, maybe six weeks shy of her birthday when she died. Caylee was tall for her age and the Liar is petite. I don't think killing Caylee would have been as easy as you suggest. The bug theory isn't logical to me.

Also, unless you have an ''in" with the defense team and know they are working for a plea, I don't see the Liar giving in. Listen to what she told her parents when they were questioning her in jail. Paraphrasing, she told them that no one would have information unless someone stupid opened their mouth. As Mark Nejame said, you can't catch a fish unless it opens its mouth.

Gator

[Gatordog]

It was reported on tonight's news that the Judge refused to hear Baez's motion to have the master available when the police question the private investigators.

Gator

[Justice Denied?]

In the South, we tout black eyed peas, but I cannot stand them, so I use purple hulls. I'll cook some with okra steamed on top to serve with a pork butt or ham, cornbread, turnips, and greens. That's for Leroy and whoever else shows up. I'm making hoppin' John for me and My Little Love.

I have Joan Nathan's Jewish Holiday cookbook; it's really great! hmmm Maybe I should buy Ruth Madoff's cookbook to support the Jewish National Fund in case she ends up needing an attorney and they need to help her out of a jam.

I just invited myself to lunch at your house tomorrow. .that's my kind of eating. We are having ham, mashed potatoes and black-eyed peas plus whatever else I can find to go with it. What is hopping John, pray tell.

[Gatordog]

From WESH: Sources said they are going to be asked to help convict their daughter, Casey Anthony, who sits in jail charged with first-degree murder.

http://www.wesh.com/news/18371232/detail.html

Gator

[Justice Denied?]

Just saw this and had to share:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f98/TxStarr29/image002.jpg



Wishing everyone on this forum a Happy New Year!

Here's to justice for Caylee in the New Year! :beer:

Yep, that's exactly how i make the hagnog. Special old family recipe.

Thanks for the good wishes. I also would like to wish everyone a blessed and prosperous new year..

[Mojo]

Just saw this and had to share:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f98/TxStarr29/image002.jpg



Wishing everyone on this forum a Happy New Year!

Here's to justice for Caylee in the New Year! :beer:

I'll drink to that!:beer:

[lighthousedazy]

Thank you Sara, I've enjoyed your input from the minute you returned. Yes, Padilla is a bit of a character. He throws out a lot of assumptions and his presentation is kind of foolish because he makes statements that are not backed by facts. The reason I like to listen to him is, he was in that godforsaken house and I want to know what went on in there. After Casey threw him out, he seemed bent on revenge and I'll do some presuming now and say he was so angry with her that he wants to find the proof that will convict her. He hates her, but I'm not sure if he hates her because she killed Caylee or because she threw him out of the house and humiliated him.

Yes the duct tape blew our minds. I'm with you on that. I never gave the death penalty much thought in the past, but it's in my thoughts now because of this case. The only problem I have with that is, I believe death is easy and there is a pleasant arrival to a better place. Besides that, I would rather she didn't enjoy being where Caylee is and I also believe Caylee has forgiven her from where she is now. If I ruled the world, I'd leave her in the hell hole she's in right now for the next 60 years. May she grow old and sickly in prison alone. I don't want to hate anyone, but GOd forgive me, I hate that piece of crap of a human being.I agree with you Danagher. It is so hard not to hate the piece of crap human being. Such a waste of flesh. :cuss: jmo

[FDInLaw]

from wesh: Sources said they are going to be asked to help convict their daughter, casey anthony, who sits in jail charged with first-degree murder.

http://www.wesh.com/news/18371232/detail.html

gator
meanwhile, deputies want know what a private investigator was doing in the area where caylee anthony's body was discovered.

They've been told he was videotaping the area a month before she was found, and he claims there wasn't a body there.

One source called this claim nothing more than a smokescreen.

Investigators have dealt with multiple people who now claim they searched the same area previously to caylee's remains being found and nothing was there.

The private investigator said he has videotape to prove it.

Investigators point out that caylee's remains were found scattered over an area about an acre in size, but they do want to check out the private investigator's videotape to see what it does or does not show. ita!

[Justice Denied?]

I am not drinking egg nog ever again, LMAO. By the way I made 24 Carrot Cupcakes w/ cream cheese frosting for a party tonight, I will be happy to share. Happy New Year one and all. You guys are great.

Carrot cake with cream cheeze frosting is my very favorite. My sis makes it every year for my Christmas Eve birthday. Yes, please, I would like a cupcake.

[Woostock]

Peachallie
I can't imagine the duct tape would be for that reason. But who knows? I think it probably was to keep her quiet. What a troubling case this is.

[Mojo]

The duct tape was probably there because the delicate CASEY didn't like the thought or sight of insets in the moist area of the mouth. This is a TWO year old, there was little need to silence her. If Casey Anthony intended to kill tiny Caylee she could do it very quickly & easily. The attorneys for the state know the law; the possibility of death penalty was withdrawn because they cannot make a case wherein it is allowed under Florida law.

The grandparents have now formally requested immunity; if it is granted, do NOT expect the state to push for a 782.04 (1)(a) conviction at trial. (I think if the elder Anthony's are granted immunity a plea will be worked out before March).

1. The duct tape was probably there because the delicate CASEY didn't like the thought or sight of insets in the moist area of the mouth.

You really think a woman who just murdered her own child gives a crap about bugs getting in her mouth??!!

2. This is a TWO year old, there was little need to silence her.

You must not have kids. I have a boy that will be two in Feb. Let me tell you, he can scream the house down when he feels like it. And that's when he's playing. :no:

[Justice Denied?]

Thank you Sara, I've enjoyed your input from the minute you returned. Yes, Padilla is a bit of a character. He throws out a lot of assumptions and his presentation is kind of foolish because he makes statements that are not backed by facts. The reason I like to listen to him is, he was in that godforsaken house and I want to know what went on in there. After Casey threw him out, he seemed bent on revenge and I'll do some presuming now and say he was so angry with her that he wants to find the proof that will convict her. He hates her, but I'm not sure if he hates her because she killed Caylee or because she threw him out of the house and humiliated him.

Yes the duct tape blew our minds. I'm with you on that. I never gave the death penalty much thought in the past, but it's in my thoughts now because of this case. The only problem I have with that is, I believe death is easy and there is a pleasant arrival to a better place. Besides that, I would rather she didn't enjoy being where Caylee is and I also believe Caylee has forgiven her from where she is now. If I ruled the world, I'd leave her in the hell hole she's in right now for the next 60 years. May she grow old and sickly in prison alone. I don't want to hate anyone, but GOd forgive me, I hate that piece of crap of a human being.

I also have given a second look to the death penalty for this case and I am a person who is against it any way, any time. ......but this crime is so horrible. I do like the idea of life in prison where every day Casey gets older and more wrinkled and uglier. No bars, no alcohol, no manicures, no fancy haircuts, no MEN. From 22 years old til death is a LONG time.

[Spider]

I just want to say Happy New Year to all of the new folks I have met on this board. All of you are great and quite resourceful. I am also a bit jealous of all of you talking about the lovely snow. I am in NC and my family and I are actually driving to our get-a-way in WV tomorrow to go and FIND snow. But, rest assured, like any good southern gal I have packed pork, collard greens and black eyed peas for tomorrow evenings dinner.

I will be totally out of the loop until at least Sunday afternoon. We don't even get cell phone service where we are going much less internet or TV of any form.

Cheers to all!!

Spider

[lorettalockhorn]

The duct tape was probably there because the delicate CASEY didn't like the thought or sight of insets in the moist area of the mouth. This is a TWO year old, there was little need to silence her. If Casey Anthony intended to kill tiny Caylee she could do it very quickly & easily. The attorneys for the state know the law; the possibility of death penalty was withdrawn because they cannot make a case wherein it is allowed under Florida law.

The grandparents have now formally requested immunity; if it is granted, do NOT expect the state to push for a 782.04 (1)(a) conviction at trial. (I think if the elder Anthony's are granted immunity a plea will be worked out before March).

I'm willing to put Leroy's left jewel on the line that Casey didn't give a rat's patootie about insects or anything else getting into Caylee's mouth. More likely IMHO that she was trying to staunch the flow of bodily fluids out of Caylee's mouth, or setting up the kidnapping scenario.

Please tell me why The State would go to trial if not to push for and expect a conviction? Do you have a link for the formal request for immunity? Where do you get this stuff?

[Woostock]

Hi Spider
Happy New Year to you, too. Here in MA it has been snowing all day. It has been a snowy winter and we have had a few school cancellations already...if this keeps up we will be making up a lot of days in June!!

[FDInLaw]

1. The duct tape was probably there because the delicate CASEY didn't like the thought or sight of insets in the moist area of the mouth.

You really think a woman who just murdered her own child gives a crap about bugs getting in her mouth??!!

2. This is a TWO year old, there was little need to silence her.

You must not have kids. I have a boy that will be two in Feb. Let me tell you, he can scream the house down when he feels like it. And that's when he's playing. :no:
I agree, my bet is that it was placed there to keep Caylee quiet. IMO this may still be an "accident" in the sense that Caylee was placed under the influence of a pharmaceutical babysitter (be it chloroform or xanax) and then died of an overdose. Hoping that the autopsy will tell.

Casey willfully contributed to the death of her own child. . . I'm just not sure if it was completely intentional. Sadly, against my better judgment, I'm for the DP either way. . . this case is beyond disgusting. No child should be discarded like this. :flamemad:

[lorettalockhorn]

It was reported on tonight's news that the Judge refused to hear Baez's motion to have the master available when the police question the private investigators.

Gator

Man, just when I finally understood the concept of work product in FL, the judge throws me by denying the request. Now, it makes sense that this privilege was not due to Hoover and or D Casey while they worked for the Anthonys, but I do understand the need to protect D Casey while he worked for Baez.

BTW Does anyone know exactly how LE found out about this 90 second videotape that's supposed to change everything??

[lorettalockhorn]

I just invited myself to lunch at your house tomorrow. .that's my kind of eating. We are having ham, mashed potatoes and black-eyed peas plus whatever else I can find to go with it. What is hopping John, pray tell.

Mashed potatoes; could live on them! We should do a wife swap. Or hag swap!

Hoppin' John is rice, blackeyed peas, onion and bacon. I sweat chopped onion, add cooked rice, drained purple hull peas instead of B eyes, and crumble bacon on the top. (That may not be the low country way, but it's how I do it.)

[FDInLaw]

WFTV-Channel 9 explored speculation that the Anthony family knew where toddler Caylee's remains were before they were discovered. Kathi Belich wondered why the family's private detectives had focused only on the woods where a meter reader later found the remains.

WFTV legal analyst William Sheaffer asked, "What in the world was going on here that took these two investigators to that location and no other location, and lo and behold, that's where the body was?"

Belich explained inconsistencies in the two private eyes' stories. One, Jim Hoover, said he was told in November where Caylee's body was hidden, bounty hunter Leonard Padilla told WFTV. (It would have been great to hear from Hoover himself.) Who told Hoover? Private eye Dominic Casey, Padilla said.

But Dominic Casey told WFTV that the two men looked there to rule out a tip from a friend of Casey Anthony, Caylee's mother who is charged with her child's murder.

Belich's story certainly left you wanting to know more.

On WESH-Channel 2, attorney Brad Conway said his clients George and Cindy Anthony will turn over any evidence, even if it's damaging to daughter Casey's case. Conway told Bob Kealing that law enforcement did not find duct tape in the Anthonys' home. Duct tape was reportedly found on Caylee's skull. "We are expecting many more developments in the coming weeks," Kealing said in ending his report.




http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2008/12/we-end-the-year.html

[FDInLaw]

Dominic Casey, a colleague of Hoover who works for the Anthonys, claims he went to the site in November with a camera to rule out the possibility that there was any evidence of Caylee there. Dominoc Casey said he didn't find anything, but admits he might have missed the remains.

The pair of private eyes, one of whom was working for Caylee's grandparents, said they not only visited, but videotaped and photographed the wooded area. Dominic Casey also said that he and Hoover were following up on a tip one of Casey Anthony's childhood friends, Kiomarie Cruz, had given detectives.

Dominic Casey said the area was the only one he searched and photographed that was not connected to a possible live sighting of Caylee. The sheriff's office said they are going to investigate why the private eyes were at the location.

Dominic Casey said he took the pictures on November 15, the day the Anthonys were away at a Kidfinders' function. Dominic Casey said, since he didn't find anything, he never mentioned his search to the Anthonys until December 11, which is the day the Orange County meter reader discovered Caylee Anthony's remains. http://www.wftv.com/news/18388517/detail.html


See link for complete article.

What kind of contact has Casey had with this friend?

[lorettalockhorn]

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2008/12/we-end-the-year.html

I like the TV GUY!! He's more interesting than half the people on NG.

[Peachallie]

I agree, my bet is that it was placed there to keep Caylee quiet. IMO this may still be an "accident" in the sense that Caylee was placed under the influence of a pharmaceutical babysitter (be it chloroform or xanax) and then died of an overdose. Hoping that the autopsy will tell.

Casey willfully contributed to the death of her own child. . . I'm just not sure if it was completely intentional. Sadly, against my better judgment, I'm for the DP either way. . . this case is beyond disgusting. No child should be discarded like this. :flamemad:
**************************************
Yes, she might have screamed if she was alive for any period of time. My reference was to the intentional death theory with which I do not agree. Taping the child's mouth shut would be unnecessary. And, there can be no death penalty if the death was not intentional. Also, the state has determined that the death penalty is inapplicable in this case. The state will have to struggle to keep it a 782.04(1)(a) case at this point. The state wants to sit down with Casey Anthony's parents now; that spells plea deal.

[Woostock]

Peachallie
What is your theory about what happened in this case?

[FDInLaw]

**************************************
Yes, she might have screamed if she was alive for any period of time. My reference was to the intentional death theory with which I do not agree. Taping the child's mouth shut would be unnecessary. And, there can be no death penalty if the death was not intentional. Also, the state has determined that the death penalty is inapplicable in this case. The state will have to struggle to keep it a 782.04(1)(a) case at this point. The state wants to sit down with Casey Anthony's parents now; that spells plea deal.

I realize that intention to kill is required for a capital murder charge. I'm anxious to hear the State's argument for this. Depending on the results of the autopsy, the defense may have quite a bit of wiggle room. . . and all they need is an inch (depending on the genius of their strategy) ... More than likely there will be little doubt that Casey is culpable, I just wonder if a capitol murder charge will stick. JMO

[deputydi]

**************************************
Yes, she might have screamed if she was alive for any period of time. My reference was to the intentional death theory with which I do not agree. Taping the child's mouth shut would be unnecessary. And, there can be no death penalty if the death was not intentional. Also, the state has determined that the death penalty is inapplicable in this case. The state will have to struggle to keep it a 782.04(1)(a) case at this point. The state wants to sit down with Casey Anthony's parents now; that spells plea deal.
Not true. If a plea deal was being discussed, the state would be talking to Jose Baez -- not G & C.

The state determined the death penalty was inapplicable BEFORE CAYLEE'S BODY WAS FOUND. They have plenty of time to change their mind. I think that, with what they already have, "intentional" will not be impossible to prove. Difficult -- maybe. But, certainly not impossible.

[lorettalockhorn]

**************************************
Yes, she might have screamed if she was alive for any period of time. My reference was to the intentional death theory with which I do not agree. Taping the child's mouth shut would be unnecessary. And, there can be no death penalty if the death was not intentional. Also, the state has determined that the death penalty is inapplicable in this case. The state will have to struggle to keep it a 782.04(1)(a) case at this point. The state wants to sit down with Casey Anthony's parents now; that spells plea deal.

No death penalty if the death was not intentional? What about aggravating circumstances? Those still apply in addition to the fact that they now have Caylee's body and have done an autopsy (although that isn't the proper word), which gave The State the official manner of death as murder. Casey still has deep pocket responsibility for Caylee's death, and the circumstantial evidence could very well lead the jury to determine that because she fabricated the very existance of the non-existant Zenaida/nanny, that there was intent. And since Casey had been blathering on and on about Zenaida before Caylee's disappearance and murder, that could very well go to premeditation. (And that's if they don't consider the computer searches.)

[Amy]

Joe , lots of good points in this post. The thing about the key may have been Cindy publicly giving Casey an out in case something was tied to the house, but you are right she had already told LE in her interview she did not believe there was a nanny for at least a year. Which brings me to another point. I can't believe a woman who was as controlling as Cindy and as genuinely concerned about a granddaughter she almost considered her child would not want to meet the nanny, have the nanny's phone number and address, maybe convince Casey to do a background check, etc. I mean I can picture Cindy saying," Casey I would like to see where Caylee is staying to make sure the house is clean and orderly. How many kids does she watch? Do you know anything about her background or references? Casey give me a phone number where I can reach this woman."Cindy is not a woman that just would blow off her granddaughters care. You are expected to believe, she fed, clothed, bought toys, probably paid for doctor visits for this child and babysat her a lot and yet when it comes to child care, she just said whatever! I never bought that idea. And for Cindy not to have a phone number or the address is mind numbing. What if Caylee got sick or severely injured and Casey was not available. Cindy knew there was no nanny and she has known for a while. I will be curious to see when this Nanny story started in force.

Good post!! Exactly what I have tho't all along. Grandmothers even no where as controlling as Cindy seems to be would demand contact info w/the nanny of their grandchildren.

As for, if Caylee got ill or something, now, we ALL know that Casey had given Nanny not only the key to the house in case she needed to take Caylee there, but surely all the phone #'s to Cindy, George and Lee. The problem would be--if something happened to CASEY, how would Cindy or George or Lee be able to contact the nanny that Casey wouldn't be able to pick Caylee up, etc? I guess Casey tho't that, if she didn't show up when she was supposed to, that Nanny would eventually contact Cindy to find out why?

Oh, Geesh!!! I don't know why I go on about these things.....when we all know there is NO NANNY!!!! I get crazy!!!!! lol

[Amy]

Watching Janie Weintraub on Issues with Jane Velez Mitchell, she keeps saying this is not the investigative stage anymore and they should go to trial and stop investigating. Is she crazy? The defense would love it if so but realistically they just found the body and the area the body was dumped, so what makes her think that LE would just call it a day and so no more investigating, no more forensics, no tests, we will go with any info we have , however incomplete. There is no time limit. In fact if they wanted to the prosecutor could go to the court and say your honor we have a new development in finding the child, we need more time to investigate and certainly the court would grant it. It is absurd that she thinks the investigation is over. She's a windbag.

She's also a few tacos short of a meal if she thinks the defense is in anyway ready to step up to the plate!!! In fact, I'm betting that, even after the investigation IS over, and trial date nears, they will be looking for another delay. IMO

[lorettalockhorn]

Florida-
(1)The murder was especially heinous, atrocious, cruel, or depraved (or involved torture)
(2) The capital offense was committed during the commission of, attempt of, or escape from a specified felony (such as robbery, kidnapping, rape, sodomy, arson, oral copulation, train wrecking, carjacking, criminal gang activity, drug dealing, or aircraft piracy)
(3) The defendant knowingly created a grave risk of death for one or more persons in addition to the victim of the offense
(4) The defendant committed the murder after substantial planning and premeditation
(5) The murder was committed for pecuniary gain or pursuant to an agreement that the defendant would receive something of value
(6) The murder was committed to avoid or prevent arrest, to effect an escape, or to conceal the commission of a crime
(7) The capital offense was committed to interfere with the lawful exercise of any government function or the enforcement of the laws
(8) The defendant has been convicted of, or committed, a prior murder, a felony involving violence, or other serious felony
(9) The capital offense was committed by a person who is incarcerated, has escaped, is on probation, is in jail, or is under a sentence of imprisonment
(10)The defendant was a criminal street gang member
(11)The victim of the capital felony was a person less than 12 years of age
(12)The victim of the capital felony was particularly vulnerable due to disability, or because the defendant stood in a position of familial or custodial authority over the victim
(13) The victim was an elected or appointed official or former official of the federal government, or local or state government, and the killing intentionally prevented the victim’s official duties
(14)The defendant engaged in drug trafficking
(15)The defendant raped a child
(16)The capital felony was a homicide and was committed in a cold, calculated, and premeditated manner without any pretense of moral or legal justification
(17)The capital felony was committed by a person designated as a sexual predator or a person previously designated as a sexual predator who had the sexual predator designation removed

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/aggravating-factors-capital-punishment-state

These have been posted before, but what they hay.

[Justice Denied?]

Oh my goodness, 200 ft hill to get to your house that is quite a hike. I am in Phoenix and it is 72 here today. My dad lives with us, he is 92 and very sharp. He treated me to the Olive Garden today for lunch and it was Yummy. Tonight my husband is making me go to a Party, which I dread. I would rather curl up in my bed and watch all the crazy young people in Time Square.

Gee Whiz if the Liar had not killed her beautiful little girl she could be out partying tonight. It must be killing her to be stuck in jail. LMAO

And may it be the first of many many New Year's Eves she sits in a jail cell!:beer:

[deputydi]

Good post!! Exactly what I have tho't all along. Grandmothers even no where as controlling as Cindy seems to be would demand contact info w/the nanny of their grandchildren.
As for, if Caylee got ill or something, now, we ALL know that Casey had given Nanny not only the key to the house in case she needed to take Caylee there, but surely all the phone #'s to Cindy, George and Lee. The problem would be--if something happened to CASEY, how would Cindy or George or Lee be able to contact the nanny that Casey wouldn't be able to pick Caylee up, etc? I guess Casey tho't that, if she didn't show up when she was supposed to, that Nanny would eventually contact Cindy to find out why?

Oh, Geesh!!! I don't know why I go on about these things.....when we all know there is NO NANNY!!!! I get crazy!!!!! lol

Yes! And, especially if the grandchild was living with them.

[Justice Denied?]

WESH had an interview with Brad Conway, G&C's attorney. He stated that the immunity request was his job to demand and the Anthony's never mentioned it or requested it. He said that's what he's been hired to do, represent them. He also said that no duct was removed from the house during the searches. And last but far from least, he said the Anthony's will cooperate fully with LE and will turn over anything that is requested even if it harmful to their daughter's case. They will answer all questions and work with police and not protect Casey. IMO - I will need proof of that before I believe it.

Gator

If Cindy and George tell the truth and it hurts Casey, it will be to save their own rear ends IMO. I believe its possibe they are in some deep dodo.

[Justice Denied?]

Mashed potatoes; could live on them! We should do a wife swap. Or hag swap!

Hoppin' John is rice, blackeyed peas, onion and bacon. I sweat chopped onion, add cooked rice, drained purple hull peas instead of B eyes, and crumble bacon on the top. (That may not be the low country way, but it's how I do it.)

sounds good to me!

[FDInLaw]

Florida-
(1)The murder was especially heinous, atrocious, cruel, or depraved (or involved torture)
(2) The capital offense was committed during the commission of, attempt of, or escape from a specified felony (such as robbery, kidnapping, rape, sodomy, arson, oral copulation, train wrecking, carjacking, criminal gang activity, drug dealing, or aircraft piracy)
(3) The defendant knowingly created a grave risk of death for one or more persons in addition to the victim of the offense
(4) The defendant committed the murder after substantial planning and premeditation
(5) The murder was committed for pecuniary gain or pursuant to an agreement that the defendant would receive something of value
(6) The murder was committed to avoid or prevent arrest, to effect an escape, or to conceal the commission of a crime
(7) The capital offense was committed to interfere with the lawful exercise of any government function or the enforcement of the laws
(8) The defendant has been convicted of, or committed, a prior murder, a felony involving violence, or other serious felony
(9) The capital offense was committed by a person who is incarcerated, has escaped, is on probation, is in jail, or is under a sentence of imprisonment
(10)The defendant was a criminal street gang member
(11)The victim of the capital felony was a person less than 12 years of age(12)The victim of the capital felony was particularly vulnerable due to disability, or because the defendant stood in a position of familial or custodial authority over the victim
(13) The victim was an elected or appointed official or former official of the federal government, or local or state government, and the killing intentionally prevented the victim’s official duties
(14)The defendant engaged in drug trafficking
(15)The defendant raped a child
(16)The capital felony was a homicide and was committed in a cold, calculated, and premeditated manner without any pretense of moral or legal justification
(17)The capital felony was committed by a person designated as a sexual predator or a person previously designated as a sexual predator who had the sexual predator designation removed

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/aggravating-factors-capital-punishment-state

These have been posted before, but what they hay.Is this what you are talking about? Go ahead and spell it out for us idiots, miss smarty pants. :tongue:


:chicken:

[Peachallie]

Not true. If a plea deal was being discussed, the state would be talking to Jose Baez -- not G & C.

The state determined the death penalty was inapplicable BEFORE CAYLEE'S BODY WAS FOUND. They have plenty of time to change their mind. I think that, with what they already have, "intentional" will not be impossible to prove. Difficult -- maybe. But, certainly not impossible.
**************************************
There is work BEFORE any actual plea talks in a murder case. The prosecution may be sizing up the elder Anthonys to make sure the case isn't stronger than it appears. Possibly to let them know THEY best let Casey Anthony know it is plea or risk LIFE.

Yes, so far I believe the death was accidental, probably culpable negligence & several crimes were committed afterward.

[FDInLaw]

**************************************
There is work BEFORE any actual plea talks in a murder case. The prosecution may be sizing up the elder Anthonys to make sure the case isn't stronger than it appears. Possibly to let them know THEY best let Casey Anthony know it is plea or risk LIFE.

Yes, so far I believe the death was accidental, probably culpable negligence & several crimes were committed afterward.This is what I believe to be the case as well. Mind you, did Casey not threaten to kill Caylee during that Father's Day spat (or is my mind making up things?). If so, that will be damaging testimony.

[lighthousedazy]

Florida-
(1)The murder was especially heinous, atrocious, cruel, or depraved (or involved torture)
(2) The capital offense was committed during the commission of, attempt of, or escape from a specified felony (such as robbery, kidnapping, rape, sodomy, arson, oral copulation, train wrecking, carjacking, criminal gang activity, drug dealing, or aircraft piracy)
(3) The defendant knowingly created a grave risk of death for one or more persons in addition to the victim of the offense
(4) The defendant committed the murder after substantial planning and premeditation
(5) The murder was committed for pecuniary gain or pursuant to an agreement that the defendant would receive something of value
(6) The murder was committed to avoid or prevent arrest, to effect an escape, or to conceal the commission of a crime
(7) The capital offense was committed to interfere with the lawful exercise of any government function or the enforcement of the laws
(8) The defendant has been convicted of, or committed, a prior murder, a felony involving violence, or other serious felony
(9) The capital offense was committed by a person who is incarcerated, has escaped, is on probation, is in jail, or is under a sentence of imprisonment
(10)The defendant was a criminal street gang member
(11)The victim of the capital felony was a person less than 12 years of age
(12)The victim of the capital felony was particularly vulnerable due to disability, or because the defendant stood in a position of familial or custodial authority over the victim
(13) The victim was an elected or appointed official or former official of the federal government, or local or state government, and the killing intentionally prevented the victim’s official duties
(14)The defendant engaged in drug trafficking
(15)The defendant raped a child
(16)The capital felony was a homicide and was committed in a cold, calculated, and premeditated manner without any pretense of moral or legal justification
(17)The capital felony was committed by a person designated as a sexual predator or a person previously designated as a sexual predator who had the sexual predator designation removed

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/aggravating-factors-capital-punishment-state

These have been posted before, but what they hay.In my opinion, #1 also applies to caysee anthony killing a beautiful, innocent baby. Also, # 16.

[lorettalockhorn]

Is this what you are talking about? Go ahead and spell it out for us idiots, miss smarty pants. :tongue:


:chicken:

Hey lady. For all you know, I'm not even wearing any pants!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#11 is the obvious one. But what about Numbers 1, 4, and 12?

[lorettalockhorn]

In my opinion, #1 also applies to caysee anthony killing a beautiful, innocent baby. Also, # 16.

I wonder about #16, but hey, Casey is all about pretense. But, if she is convicted and the defense cannot offer up any mitigating factors to explain why she doesn't find it immoral or illegal to have killed Caylee, then I'm for it! Don't see it though, it's not like she pulled the plug on Caylee's life support of something.

[FDInLaw]

Hey lady. For all you know, I'm not even wearing any pants!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#11 is the obvious one. But what about Numbers 1, 4, and 12?#12 is a definite. I pray for Caylee's sake that #1 does not apply (other than the heinous and callus behavior of Casey covering this all up ~ I sure hope Caylee did not suffer. :( ). #2? Well, that's back to the question of premeditation. We know that the drug researched on the home computer is also used as a pharmaceutical babysitter . . . that in and of itself does not spell out an intent to kill IMO.

[lorettalockhorn]

I don't think they will survive this. She hit them all with her spray of rage and seems quite happy with herself.

You're talking about Casey, right? Because it seems that Cindy has done more than her share of spewing venom. There are times when honest to God I feel sorry for her. You know, G&C must have been in some sort of dreamland to have thought that Casey had a job and a nanny and that everything was A-OK for months and months, but they HAD to have known. There are plenty of people all over the internet who think that Casey was on drugs; maybe G&C are the users/dopers/alkies. They just let Caylee down for some inexplicable reason. That's it in a nutshell.

[lorettalockhorn]

#12 is a definite. I pray for Caylee's sake that #1 does not apply (other than the heinous and callus behavior of Casey covering this all up ~ I sure hope Caylee did not suffer. :( ). #2? Well, that's back to the question of premeditation. We know that the drug researched on the home computer is also used as a pharmaceutical babysitter . . . that in and of itself does not spell out an intent to kill IMO.

I disagree; #1 does apply. Before she died, Caylee looked into the eyes of the one person on this earth she should have been able to trust with her life. On some level she must have felt the terror of betrayal. Even if it was for a nano second, she suffered the loss of innocence and faith in her mother. At that moment she knew that "mother" is a misnomer.

[FDInLaw]

I disagree; #1 does apply. Before she died, Caylee looked into the eyes of the one person on this earth she should have been able to trust with her life. On some level she must have felt the terror of betrayal. Even if it was for a nano second, she suffered the loss of innocence and faith in her mother. At that moment she knew that "mother" is a misnomer.
I don't know. . . if Caylee had been drugged before, how was she to know it would be the last time?

For my own sanity I have to think this way. I do agree that Casey is one detached chick and I would not trust her with an earthworm. . . but I do hope that little Caylee did not have to endure any amount of terror in her final moments. I agree, it is possible that she did, and certainly Casey has displayed that level of selfish indifference. I just hope not. :(


I may need a new case to follow. . . and suggestions? Absolutely NO dead kids!

[lorettalockhorn]

I don't know. . . if Caylee had been drugged before, how was she to know it would be the last time?

For my own sanity I have to think this way. I do agree that Casey is one detached chick and I would not trust her with an earthworm. . . but I do hope that little Caylee did not have to endure any amount of terror in her final moments. I agree, it is possible that she did, and certainly Casey has displayed that level of selfish indifference. I just hope not. :(


I may need a new case to follow. . . and suggestions? Absolutely NO dead kids!

Not sure about what case. Children or adults, they all seem so alien.

As for Caylee, I just believe that at the moment we die, we have an omniscience, Gestalt, a moment of understanding. I think she knew that Mommy/Mama/Mother/Incubator was putting the lights out for the last time.

[deputydi]

**************************************
There is work BEFORE any actual plea talks in a murder case. The prosecution may be sizing up the elder Anthonys to make sure the case isn't stronger than it appears. Possibly to let them know THEY best let Casey Anthony know it is plea or risk LIFE.

Yes, so far I believe the death was accidental, probably culpable negligence & several crimes were committed afterward.
I've only seen this tactic on tv. Never in real life. Negotiations are always with the DA, the adult defendant and his/her attorney. Casey isn't a minor and the decision is hers to make.

[FDInLaw]

Not sure about what case. Children or adults, they all seem so alien.

As for Caylee, I just believe that at the moment we die, we have an omniscience, Gestalt, a moment of understanding. I think she knew that Mommy/Mama/Mother/Incubator was putting the lights out for the last time.

Never stated it before, but I guess I do not share your belief. And, even if a moment of terrible understanding occurred, the peace and overwhelming love Caylee felt as she passed into the arms of her Heavenly Father would have erased it in a second. No betrayal, no matter how heinous on this end, is a match for that epiphany. . . that is my belief.

JMHO

[deputydi]

This is what I believe to be the case as well. Mind you, did Casey not threaten to kill Caylee during that Father's Day spat (or is my mind making up things?). If so, that will be damaging testimony.
I also think the death was accidental, but not as in a drowning or anything like that. I believe the accidental death occurred as a result of something illegal Casey did. Like, chloroform to keep Caylee quiet and she was given an accidental overdose. Numbers 1, 11 and 12 all apply to a charge of capital murder in this case.

I do not think Casey was overcharged, although I doubt they will put the dp back on the table. (I hope I'm wrong about that)

[samanthajane13]

Off-Topic, but I wanted to pop in to wish EVERYONE a Happy New Year!!!

See ya on the other side of 2008!!!

Hugs-
Donna

[FDInLaw]

I have appreciated the discussion about the death penalty. This is the first case I have followed so closely that involved a minor and it was really helpful.


Happy New Year Everyone!

The party is over on this end, and I'm going to bed. :seeya:

[lorettalockhorn]

Never stated it before, but I guess I do not share your belief. And, even if a moment of terrible understanding occurred, the peace and overwhelming love Caylee felt as she passed into the arms of her Heavenly Father would have erased it in a second. No betrayal, no matter how heinous on this end, is a match for that epiphany. . . that is my belief.

JMHO

If it was all erased in a second, no death would be painful or heinous. Incremental to salvation and the rapture is an understanding. But nothing eradicates the truth; we simply gain an understanding and acceptance of death upon death.

[FDInLaw]

If it was all erased in a second, no death would be painful or heinous. Incremental to salvation and the rapture is an understanding. But nothing eradicates the truth; we simply gain an understanding and acceptance of death upon death.
I have yet to experience it, so I claim no real knowledge on the subject.

[Amy]

It's true, Joe makes a lot of good points and certainly the Anthony's were placating her because of the brat attack potential, but I believe they were also trying to put words in her mouth at the same time. As for your sense that Cindy knew there was no Nanny, you are right on. Here is where she is in need of immunity. She fed the lies in order to make Casey appear innocent and fan reasonable doubt. That is as clear as the nose on her cold hard face. I expect the prosecutor to have a blast with that one point.

Playing Prosecutor:

So you claim you took good care of Caylee?
Yes
So you claim you were very invested in her care?
Yes
So you would put a lot of equity in her safety?
Yes
So you would never let anyone harm her?
Yes
So you allowed a total stranger, a Nanny, you never met, nor did you know her phone number or address take care of her?

No more questions ya honnah!

:shrug:

With extra emphasis on the fact that, this nanny situation wasn't just for a week or two, but for 1.5 to 2 YEARS!!!!

[Amy]

If the P.I. taped that particular area to show that there was no body there - how did he know that a body would be found there? The only person who would know that would be the killer or close to the killer.

If the bones were left there sometime between Nov and Dec. did the the depositor walk around and throw those small bones over an acre? The bones would have all been easily seen on top of the ground and not buried or under growth.

Neither option makes sense.

I don't think it's so unreasonable that Kronk looked in the woods three days in a row, it was his route. Plus, it seems they must have told him to call back when he was there so he could talk personally to an officer. The fact that he did not go back for four months makes sense because he was switched to a different route and that woods was a swamp under four feet of water for three months.

Gator

Tim Miller says there was an indentation in the ground, the leaves were brown, the place where the bag was found was consistent w/it being there for some time, not just a couple of weeks. AND, when DID the water reside there? Was the water level still high (higher than, say, the SWAMPY area described by Mr Kronk) when the PI filmed? WHEN in Nov was this filmed, anyway. Not only WHERE, but WHAT part of Nov. would be my question. Only in relation to how high the water might be.

No matter who says what, Dom Casey worked for Baez sometime in July until the service contract was terminated (or not renewed, whatever) OCTOBER 1. So, if this was filmed in Nov, no way, no how does this film come under the defense work product rule. Even if Casey was by then working for the A's, it does not come under work product (can't remember who said that, the Mark guy that does the local news?)

As for Mr Kronk, I just did not understand the daisy chain thing LP was talking about, that was WAY to intangible for my little brain power. But, then, sometimes when LP gets started pontificating on one of his theories, he leaves my head spinning by the second sentence!!!! lol.

[Amy]

LP has totally confused me now...from what I can tell of what he is saying on NG tonight, the PI said he knew where Caylee was, but said she was dead and they were going to get her. He came back later with video of the wooded area but no body. The implication being that someone told him where the body was but they couldn't find it? Is this where Lee fits in? ?Maybe he successfully translated KC pig latin to a location?

I'm disoriented. Am I nuts or is it LP?

imo.

LP disorients me, so guess he is nuts and we are disoriented? lol

[lorettalockhorn]

I have yet to experience it, so I claim no real knowledge on the subject.

I just don't believe death eradicates the act or cause; murder or illness, or accident; it simply gives the dead an acceptance of it. And the living the right to philosophize about it, as did Matthew(?) who wrote "an eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth". There must be measured punishment for crime.

What would be the point of the death penalty if people never suffered due to murder anyway?

[lorettalockhorn]

Tim Miller says there was an indentation in the ground, the leaves were brown, the place where the bag was found was consistent w/it being there for some time, not just a couple of weeks. AND, when DID the water reside there? Was the water level still high (higher than, say, the SWAMPY area described by Mr Kronk) when the PI filmed? WHEN in Nov was this filmed, anyway. Not only WHERE, but WHAT part of Nov. would be my question. Only in relation to how high the water might be.

No matter who says what, Dom Casey worked for Baez sometime in July until the service contract was terminated (or not renewed, whatever) OCTOBER 1. So, if this was filmed in Nov, no way, no how does this film come under the defense work product rule. Even if Casey was by then working for the A's, it does not come under work product (can't remember who said that, the Mark guy that does the local news?)

As for Mr Kronk, I just did not understand the daisy chain thing LP was talking about, that was WAY to intangible for my little brain power. But, then, sometimes when LP gets started pontificating on one of his theories, he leaves my head spinning by the second sentence!!!! lol.

According to neighbors, the water had only just receded about the time that Caylee's remains were discovered.

The video is reported to be only about 90 seconds in length. It can't cover much of the area in question. Agree that the video doesn't belong to Baez and the Anthonys don't have any sort of privilege/work product clause going for them.

If LP has a valid Daisy Chain Theory, he needs to spit it out all at one sitting. Fed and sick up with his carrot and stick schtick. Out with it man! Who/How/Where is the fconnection?!

And does anyone know how it is that LE learned about the video(s)? The PIs called them and reported them? Gossip?? Nancy Grace???

[Amy]

Short and TO THE POINT! Honestly, I can see the second autopsy and the funeral arrangements dragging on for some time. Think I read that the Anthonys have put the kibosh on asking for donations. Hope so. As for the Ants getting Casey to accept responsibility; not holding my breath.

I don't remember if it was last night or tonight (gosh, do I have short term memory problems!!!) but it was repeated over and over again that the A's ABSOLUTELY want Casey to attend Caylee's funeral. (Must have been last night) and one of the th's was going on that it's a mother's RIGHT to attend her funeral, she hasn't been convicted of anything, blah blah blah.....I am SCREAMING @ the tv--SHE KILLED HER DAUGHTER---A MOTHER HAS NO "RIGHTS" TO ANYTHING WHEN SHE IS THE CAUSE OF HER DAUGHTER'S DEATH!!!! MOST people who are sitting in jail, charged with the murder and awaiting trial DO NOT get to go to funeral of the person they are ACCUSED of murdering!!! They just DON'T!!!!


Besides, wonder what CASEY wants--does she even want to go? There hasn't been a request to the judge to override the jail policy of not letting her go. The A's haven't talked to Casey. We only hear that the A's are demanding to let her go.

[Amy]

You guys are making hungry for some fancy coffee as my mother used to call everything flavored. Also on what I get to watch on tv, the dogs are great about letting me watch what I want! I am just teasing you guys. :beer:

We used to drink a lot of coffee where I work. I kind of like coffee to be--well, COFFEE. Some of the nurses liked a bunch of different stuff. When we would offer one of the docs coffee, he always asked if it was plain coffee or that with "twigs and leaves."

I solved the TV problem in my house. I have the tv AND the remote in the front room. Each of the kids have their own tv's in their rooms (18 and 20, so I don't have to monitor, lol) So I get to watch what I want, when I want to!!!!

[SaraSidle]

Oh my goodness, 200 ft hill to get to your house that is quite a hike. I am in Phoenix and it is 72 here today. My dad lives with us, he is 92 and very sharp. He treated me to the Olive Garden today for lunch and it was Yummy. Tonight my husband is making me go to a Party, which I dread. I would rather curl up in my bed and watch all the crazy young people in Time Square.

Gee Whiz if the Liar had not killed her beautiful little girl she could be out partying tonight. It must be killing her to be stuck in jail. LMAO

well I am jealous of your day but not your night. me and hubby stay home cause we are scared of all the drivers. and I am very satisfied she is in jail and will never leave alive....btw. Happy New Years but I know you have 3 hours to go. I am in Michigan.

[SaraSidle]

We used to drink a lot of coffee where I work. I kind of like coffee to be--well, COFFEE. Some of the nurses liked a bunch of different stuff. When we would offer one of the docs coffee, he always asked if it was plain coffee or that with "twigs and leaves."

I solved the TV problem in my house. I have the tv AND the remote in the front room. Each of the kids have their own tv's in their rooms (18 and 20, so I don't have to monitor, lol) So I get to watch what I want, when I want to!!!!

As always you have it down pat.

[Amy]

From what I can tell she probably did not tell this minister anything except self serving crap knowing Casey

I was able to look @ the content of the article in the Enquirer that has on the front Casey confesses to the preacher. Well, it was the Rev Strickland. AND, there was no confession, to the preacher anyway. He says he does not talk to Casey about why she is there, what she did or didn't do. He talks to her about God and reads the bible and all that. IF IT'S TRUE that they even TALKED to the preacher, he isn't telling ANYONE what Casey did or didn't say. It would seem that the Rev Strickland is pretty much a professional, and knows not to reveal what he talks about with his parishioners (in or out of jail) in private.

[SaraSidle]

I have yet to experience it, so I claim no real knowledge on the subject.

I just love the new avatar!!!!!!!! I am pretty sure none of us have any real knowledge which is a good thing. Happy New Years FDI. I know you have a couple of hours to go but I don't. LOL:biggrin: hugs

[Amy]

I agree, I doubt she said anything of importance to the minister. As to Lee and the rents, is it possible that Casey likes to speak in cryptic terms for attention??? Me thinks this might be the case. By keeping eveyone guessing, she keeps the attention on herself. JMO

I can just see Cindy sitting @ the kitchen table w/her binder and bottled water, going over the conversations, so she can tell the FBI or LE, if she understood this "clue" or that "clue" from what Casey was telling her, this is probably a "fact" (such as saying this "clue" (sorry can't remember the clue) makes Cindy think Casey was telling her it was Jesse or Amy who is really Nanny. Geeesh!!!!! Must have given her something to do all those nights she couldn't sleep.

[SaraSidle]

I just don't believe death eradicates the act or cause; murder or illness, or accident; it simply gives the dead an acceptance of it. And the living the right to philosophize about it, as did Matthew(?) who wrote "an eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth". There must be measured punishment for crime.

What would be the point of the death penalty if people never suffered due to murder anyway?

I used to be against it especially with all the people in prison being freed due to DNA. I am for it now especially if the DNA is used for evidence and hope like heck we have it on this one. Happy New Years loretta.

[SaraSidle]

I can just see Cindy sitting @ the kitchen table w/her binder and bottled water, going over the conversations, so she can tell the FBI or LE, if she understood this "clue" or that "clue" from what Casey was telling her, this is probably a "fact" (such as saying this "clue" (sorry can't remember the clue) makes Cindy think Casey was telling her it was Jesse or Amy who is really Nanny. Geeesh!!!!! Must have given her something to do all those nights she couldn't sleep.

I agree but find it very sad. I think Cindy cared more for Caylee than anyone and this is breaking her heart. I could not imagine being in her place.IMO

[Amy]

If the PI's were looking in the right area with the video camera as per LP it maybe didn't have to be based on a tip from Caylee or Lee. Maybe they were looking over the tips that came in to the tipline and this one made sense (remember, the MR was told to call the tipline and he said he did on...was it August 12?). They said Eureka! but then found nothing, leading LP to continue hunting at his other locations...

That's why they were close but no body. It was the vague meter readers tip they were going on?

(moo and conjecture...)

I am glad that I am not the only who thinks the meter reader's directions were vague. And, if it does happen that this video was based on those directions, and the officers ended @ the same place, based on the vague directions, it is no wonder LE did NOT find anything, either.

This is not to cast suspicion or aspersions on the meter reader, I do not think he has anything to do w/anything, least of all a daisy chain. It's just that he was NOT clear about the directions @ all!!!!

[Amy]

This blurb from Loretta's post on news thread Caylee Anthony story: WESH reports that George and Cindy Anthony won't help prosecution without immunity

the attorney for George and Cindy Anthony says they will cooperate in daughter Casey's prosecution -- "only if their words aren't used against them." My comment, well there must be something they know they will get in trouble for and I suspect they realized early on she was dead . Or know other very incriminating things about Casey they did not reveal or lied about. Are they now saying, We will help you in taking her down but we are not going down with her?

Something they should have said on DAY 31, IMO.

[Amy]

By the way remember when George was spotted in his car looking into a clump of trees in a certain area. That was not the same general area was it, it was by the airport right? Because that would be too weird if thinigs are not weird enough. Please correct me if I am wrong esp you Gator because you know the area.

Probably already answered by now, but the area where George was looking was several miles down the road, near where the KFN kiosk found a "permanent" home.

[SaraSidle]

Something they should have said on DAY 31, IMO.

Amy you sound like Casey's parents are guilty. I think they have had a terrible time of denial. they love Casey and Caylee and I cannot imagine what they are going through the last 6 months. thank God it is not me. IMO

[lorettalockhorn]

I can just see Cindy sitting @ the kitchen table w/her binder and bottled water, going over the conversations, so she can tell the FBI or LE, if she understood this "clue" or that "clue" from what Casey was telling her, this is probably a "fact" (such as saying this "clue" (sorry can't remember the clue) makes Cindy think Casey was telling her it was Jesse or Amy who is really Nanny. Geeesh!!!!! Must have given her something to do all those nights she couldn't sleep.

Cindy's and George's binders are both ridiculous. WTF is the binder with Zenaida's address and phone number?? How can they expect LE or anyone else to take them seriously with all their notes and calendars and whatnot, when they didn't make the slightest effort to see to Caylee's safety from the get go?

Fidiots.

[lorettalockhorn]

http://i40.tinypic.com/34pnrbb.jpg

[Amy]

I went through all this with the Scott Peterson Case although this has got a much more crazy cast. I don't believe Lee is involved, has LE said they think he is involved or is it just the pundits making guesses on shows like NG.

As far as LP is concerned I would not believe a thing he says, it is all therory and remember he is not an investigator he is a Bounty Hunter. Why NG keeps having him on her show is because they don't have anyone else who actually talked to the Liar. It reminds me of when they removed a guy from the Jury early on in the Peterson case. Although he had nothing valid to say or add they had him on all the shows giving his opinion which was a joke. Once the trial ended and the other Jurors could speak they had nothing nice to say about him and he was wrong in everything he said no wonder he disappeared.

Now lets talk about the duct tape. Has LE or the Medical Examiner said the duct tape was around the head. I don't think they have. I think it was around the top of the bag to keep it closed. Lets think about this. If I put tape around the head of a dead body I am sticking it to the skin,in this case supposely around the mouth or head. When this tissue disintergrates the tape will fall off ,herefore I don't think the tape was on the head or face. Ofcourse this does not mean she was not intentionly killed.

I do think the Liar intentionly killed her child, I feel she should get al least LIPWP or even better death.

In spite of what Baez says, it seems LE isn't dropping little bombs into the media day in and day out, and I have not personally read or heard from LE on the subject of Lee. Perhaps Lee is having a pang of guilt, KNOWS he can be charged with things, and so lawyered up to be proactive. (Altho, his lawyer needs to get up to speed on the case in general before he spouts to the media.) OR, perhaps he and the A's getting CRIMINAL attorneys is just another smoke and mirror trick to take some of the attention off Casey, or, more to the point, to attempt to take @ least some of the focus off the fact that Caylee's been found.

And I hope you meant LWOP, not LIPWP?

[SaraSidle]

http://i40.tinypic.com/34pnrbb.jpg

Way too cool Loretta

[Amy]

Thanks loretta, so it just means at connection. Why did'nt he just say that.

Because it would only take 3 seconds to say that. This way, he got 3-5 MINUTES, lol.

[Amy]

Padilla is pathetic. He should go home until when and if he is subpoenaed. He just seems to want to plant himself in the middle of this case anymore.

...snip


Interesting that LP says he is not on the witness list, but that he is confident that they will HAVE to call him, because of the relationship he had w/the A's, he was in their house, etc etc etc, has some conversations (what? IIRC, all his conversation w/Casey was for her to order him out of the house!) And then he listed Rob Dick, Tracey the body guard and more than 5 others. Wonder if he meant ALL of them should be called, or just him cuz he's the top dog in his company?

[One2Snoop]

http://i40.tinypic.com/3304rvm.jpghttp://i40.tinypic.com/9tlgn9.gifhttp://i40.tinypic.com/3304rvm.jpg

[Gatordog]

http://www.wftv.com/news/18388517/detail.html


See link for complete article.

What kind of contact has Casey had with this friend?

All I can say is that hope there is a defense attorney left in Orlando to represent Kiomarie. I can hear Baez now: Kiomarie lived on the same street as the Anthony's. She wanted to adopt Caylee. She was denied and held a grudge for three years. She knew where the body was hidden. Everyone associated with this family becomes cursed.

Gator

[Peachallie]

No death penalty if the death was not intentional? What about aggravating circumstances? Those still apply in addition to the fact that they now have Caylee's body and have done an autopsy (although that isn't the proper word), which gave The State the official manner of death as murder. Casey still has deep pocket responsibility for Caylee's death, and the circumstantial evidence could very well lead the jury to determine that because she fabricated the very existance of the non-existant Zenaida/nanny, that there was intent. And since Casey had been blathering on and on about Zenaida before Caylee's disappearance and murder, that could very well go to premeditation. (And that's if they don't consider the computer searches.)
*******************************************
Here is the law:

(1)(a) The unlawful killing of a human being:

1. When perpetrated from a premeditated design to effect the death of the person killed or any human being;

2. When committed by a person engaged in the perpetration of, or in the attempt to perpetrate, any:

a. Trafficking offense prohibited by s. 893.135(1),

b. Arson,

c. Sexual battery,

d. Robbery,

e. Burglary,

f. Kidnapping,

g. Escape,

h. Aggravated child abuse,

i. Aggravated abuse of an elderly person or disabled adult,

j. Aircraft piracy,

k. Unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb,

l. Carjacking,

m. Home-invasion robbery,

n. Aggravated stalking,

o. Murder of another human being,

p. Resisting an officer with violence to his or her person,

q. Felony that is an act of terrorism or is in furtherance of an act of terrorism; or

3. Which resulted from the unlawful distribution of any substance controlled under s. 893.03(1), cocaine as described in s. 893.03(2)(a)4., or opium or any synthetic or natural salt, compound, derivative, or preparation of opium by a person 18 years of age or older, when such drug is proven to be the proximate cause of the death of the user,

is murder in the first degree and constitutes a capital felony, punishable as provided in s. 775.082.

(b) In all cases under this section, the procedure set forth in s. 921.141 shall be followed in order to determine sentence of death or life imprisonment.
***************************************
Yes, the state took the death penalty out of consideration even BEFORE the body was found; obviously, they knew early on their case could not sustain such a penalty. And the state has had the autopsy results for two weeks now with no indication they are gonna add it back. Please remember, the medical examiner had to stretch to call it homicide for goodness sake. NO TRAUMA found on any of the bones recovered. This ain't a death case.......LIFE in prison remains a possibility.

[Peachallie]

I've only seen this tactic on tv. Never in real life. Negotiations are always with the DA, the adult defendant and his/her attorney. Casey isn't a minor and the decision is hers to make.

************************************
I didn't write of negotiations; rasther letting those closest to the defendant understand the posture of the case.

[Gatordog]

No death penalty if the death was not intentional? What about aggravating circumstances? Those still apply in addition to the fact that they now have Caylee's body and have done an autopsy (although that isn't the proper word), which gave The State the official manner of death as murder. Casey still has deep pocket responsibility for Caylee's death, and the circumstantial evidence could very well lead the jury to determine that because she fabricated the very existance of the non-existant Zenaida/nanny, that there was intent. And since Casey had been blathering on and on about Zenaida before Caylee's disappearance and murder, that could very well go to premeditation. (And that's if they don't consider the computer searches.)

Happy New Year Loretta. I agree with your statements. I believe that the truth is within the Liar's actions after Caylee's death. If it was accidental, she would called for help, even if Caylee had been dead for hours. Instead she had fabricated this elaborate lie which seemed to be months in the making and parties evey day. Including the day her daughter died. That's intent to me.

Gator 2009

[Peachallie]

The ENTIRE homicide chapter from Florida Statutes is too long to include, I just tried. I posted a link previously but it may not have worked. The site is Florida Law Online, it is accessible to anyone. The Florida Bar has a research site including cases I'll post if given enough info to look 'em up.

[Peachallie]

Happy New Year Loretta. I agree with your statements. I believe that the truth is within the Liar's actions after Caylee's death. If it was accidental, she would called for help, even if Caylee had been dead for hours. Instead she had fabricated this elaborate lie which seemed to be months in the making and parties evey day. Including the day her daughter died. That's intent to me.

Gator 2009
************************************
It may have been accidental AND she didn't give a damn. If the state goes into fantasy land looking for the death penalty, she could WALK. The state knows their job, and none of the individuals involved are stupid. Life is the worst penalty this case can ever deliver.

(Aggravated child abuse would require proof of TRAUMA.)

[Gatordog]

NG showed the videos again tonight. Every time I see those people talk to each other I hear and see more amazing things. Again I ask, is it impossible for them to look at each other when they are speaking to each other?

Tonight I noticed that Cindy was in agony. Her body language was telling us all that she knew the truth and her incessant questions were driving miss liar to an almost fit. I saw them back peddling and apologizing for asking questions because Casey was ready to hang up on them and leave. Cindy grabbed her head at one point and was rocking back and forth at times which confirms to me, that she was losing it. So much pain, so much horror and Casey still found it appropriate to laugh and joke.

This is one scary killer! She was shrewd, glib, indifferent at Lee's long drawn out dialog, bored at times and cold as ice. Cindy was saying repeatedly, we have to get her home for her birthday and Casey was seething. I did notice this time that no one said Caylee's name... she was referred to as "That little girl" and when Cindy said, "I want her home? Casey snapped at her and yelled, "SO DO I!"

Horrible all of it!

It seems to me that the video camera is above eye level but the screen is probably on a low console so it appears as if they are not looking at each other. Cindy asks that the liar raise her head so she can look her in the eye, but the Liar wants to view the screen and has to look down.

What was really telling for me was the last minute shown on NG when Lee is telling the Liar that everyone wants Caylee to come and that she is missed. The Liar replies that they have heard that from everyone but ... her mother. She lowers her head and voice when she says "her mother" as if she's ashamed of hersef.

Gator

[Gatordog]

This is what I believe to be the case as well. Mind you, did Casey not threaten to kill Caylee during that Father's Day spat (or is my mind making up things?). If so, that will be damaging testimony.

I think it was Cindy who threatened to kill Casey.

[Gatordog]

Hey lady. For all you know, I'm not even wearing any pants!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#11 is the obvious one. But what about Numbers 1, 4, and 12?

How about #14 - drug trafficking. If they can show that chloroform was researched and made and then given to a minor, is that drug trafficking?

[Gatordog]

I don't know. . . if Caylee had been drugged before, how was she to know it would be the last time?

For my own sanity I have to think this way. I do agree that Casey is one detached chick and I would not trust her with an earthworm. . . but I do hope that little Caylee did not have to endure any amount of terror in her final moments. I agree, it is possible that she did, and certainly Casey has displayed that level of selfish indifference. I just hope not. :(


I may need a new case to follow. . . and suggestions? Absolutely NO dead kids!

When the reports of chloroform were released, a nurse anesthiologist was talking on the news. She said that administering chloroform to a child is very traumatic to the child. When the child starts to feel the effects of the chemical, they start fighting back. They don't understand the feeling and will try as hard as they can to remove the cloth or mask from their face.

Gator

[Peachallie]

Gator, drug trafficking is the SALE OR EXCHANGE for value. Trafficking involves large amounts also. (Chapter 893, Florida Statutes) I posted the actual law; only agg. child abuse is even a remote possibility. The medical examiner found NO TRAUMA AND admitted she had to rely upon circumstantial evidence to even determine it was homicide. The state attorney would not have taken the death penalty option away unless they knew their case did not fit into the parameters. And no, the state CANNOT announce that they are seeking death at the last minute.


The state will have a tough time putting her away for life at this point; in all probabilities that is what they are working on.

[Peachallie]

Here is half actual docket sheet for the case fr:

10/14/2008 A ARREST AFFIDAVIT FILED - DOA <10/14/2008> BOND NONE, INMATE NUMBER 08049710
10/14/2008 A CAPIAS ISSUED RET: INST BOND:$NONE
10/14/2008 A CAPIAS RETURNED EXECUTED
10/14/2008 A INDICTMENT FILED
10/14/2008 A MOTION FOR ADMINISTRATIVE TRANSFER BETWEEN DIVISIONS
10/14/2008 A OUT ON BOND FORM FILED BOND SET AT NO BOND
10/14/2008 A ORDER OF REASSIGNMENT FROM DIVISION 19 TO DIVISION 16
10/15/2008 A ADVICE TO DEFENDANT, FIRST APPEARANCE
10/15/2008 A APPEARANCE OF DEFENDANT ENTERED
10/15/2008 A APPEAR. OF ATTORNEY ENTERED (ATTY. JOSE BAEZ)
10/15/2008 A WRITTEN PLEA OF NOT GUILTY ARG DATE <10/28/2008> 08:45 A.M.
10/15/2008 A BOND STAYED @ $NONE (CT1 - CT7)
10/15/2008 A DEMAND FOR DISCOVERY FILED
10/15/2008 A INJAIL ARRAIGNMENT: <10/21/2008> 08:30 A.M.
10/15/2008 A NOTICE OF APPEARANCE FILED JOSE A. BAEZ
10/15/2008 A IN OPEN COURT INITIAL APPEARANCE
10/15/2008 A WAIVER OF ARRAIGNMENT
10/15/2008 A WRITTEN PLEA OF NOT GUILTY ENTERED
10/16/2008 A CAPIAS RETURNED EXECUTED
10/21/2008 A NOTICE OF TAKING DEPOSITION UPON ORAL EXAMINATION
10/27/2008 A NOTICE OF FILING AFFIDAVITS OF SERVICE OF SUBPOENA FOR DEPOSITION (4)/ATTACHED
10/28/2008 A APPEAR. OF ATTORNEY ENTERED
10/28/2008 A COURT MINUTES FILED
10/28/2008 A DEFENDANT NOT PRESENT
10/28/2008 A NOTICE OF PROVISION OF SUPPLEMENTAL DISCOVERY
10/28/2008 A NOTICE FOR PRETRIAL RET: <12/11/2008> 09:00 A.M.
10/28/2008 A NOTICE OF TRIAL RTN:<01/05/2009> 09:30 A.M.
10/28/2008 A IN OPEN COURT WRITTEN PLEA OF NOT GUILTY
10/28/2008 A WRITTEN PLEA OF NOT GUILTY ENTERED
10/30/2008 A NOTICE OF FILING AFFIDAVIT OF SERVICE
10/31/2008 A NOTICE OF PROVISION OF SUPPLEMENTAL DISCOVERY
11/3/2008 A MOTION TO COMPEL REPORTS AND COMMUNICATIONS
11/4/2008 A MOTION TO COMPEL CRIME SCENE INVESTIGATION REPORTS AND PHOTOS
11/4/2008 A MOTION TO COMPEL TIPS GATHERED BY LAW ENFORCEMENT
11/6/2008 A AMENDED MOTION TO COMPEL FILED (CALENDAR AND TIMELINES)
11/6/2008 A MOTION TO PRESERVE FORENSIC EVIDENCE AND FOR COURT TO CONSIDER ADDITIONAL TESTING
11/6/2008 A STATE'S MOTION CONCERNING EXTRA-JUDICIAL COMMENTS (ORLANDO SENTINEL.COM NEWS PRINTOUTS FROM VARIOUS DATES REGARDING THE CAYLEE ANTHONY CASE AND COPY OF PRESS RELEASES ATTACHED)
11/6/2008 A NOTICE OF PROVISION OF SUPPLEMENTAL DISCOVERY
11/6/2008 A NOTICE OF PROVISION OF SUPPLEMENTAL DISCOVERY
11/7/2008 A APPLICATION FOR SUPOENA DUCES TECUM
11/7/2008 A NOTICE OF HEARING FILED <11/10/2008> 01:30 P.M.
11/7/2008 A NOTICE OF CONFLICT / MOTION TO CONTINUE
11/7/2008 A NOTICE OF CONFLICT/MOTION TO CONTINUE
11/10/2008 A NOTICE OF HEARING ISSUED RET 11/10/2008 @1:30PM
11/12/2008 A MOTION TO COMPEL FILED (NOTES, REPORTS, PHOTOGRAPHS, SLIDES AND TO ALLOW THE INSPECTION OF HAIR)
11/12/2008 A DUPLICATE COPY OF MOTION TO COMPEL FILED (NOTES, REPORTS, PHOTOGRAPHS, SLIDES AND TO ALLOW THE INSPECTION OF HAIR)
11/12/2008 A MOTION TO ALLOW THE USE OF LAPTOP COMPUTERS WITHIN ORANGE COUNTY JAIL
11/12/2008 A NOTICE OF APPEARANCE FILED JACK A. KIRSCHENBAUM, ESQ
11/13/2008 A NOTICE OF FILING SUPPLEMENTAL ATTACHMENTS IN SUPPORT OF MOTION CONCERNING EXTRA-JUDICIAL COMMENTS
11/13/2008 A NOTICE OF UNAVAILABILITY
11/17/2008 A CORRESPONDENCE FILED (CLERK'S COPY) FROM THE BAEZ LAW FIRM TO OSCEOLA COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE DATED 10/22/08 RE: PUBLIC INFORMATION REQUEST (EXHIBIT A)
11/17/2008 A CORRESPONDENCE FILED (CLERK'S COPY) FROM THE BAEZ LAW FIRM TO THE ORANGE COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE, DATED 10/22/08 RE: PUBLIC INFORMATION REQUEST (EXHIBIT B)
11/17/2008 A CORRESPONDENCE FILED (COPY) FROM THE OSCEOLA COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE TO THE BAEZ LAW FIRM DATED 10/28/08 RE: RESPONSE TO REQUEST FOR PUBLIC RECORDS (EXHIBIT C)
11/17/2008 A CORRESPONDENCE FILED (COPY) FROM HIGHLAND'S COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE TO SHERIFF ROBERT HANSELL/OSCEOLA COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE, DATED 12/19/07 (EXHIBIT D)
11/17/2008 A MOTION TO COMPEL FILED (K-9 INFORMATION)
11/17/2008 A STATE'S WITNESS LIST FILED
11/19/2008 A APPLICATION FOR SUBPOENA DUCES TECUM
11/19/2008 A AMENDED STATE WITNESS LIST FILED
11/19/2008 A CORRESPONDENCE FILED
11/19/2008 A MOTION TO COMPEL FILED (FORENSIC WITNESSES)
11/20/2008 A DEFENSE WITNESS LIST
11/20/2008 A NOTICE OF HEARING FILED <11/25/2008> 02:00 P.M.
11/21/2008 A MOVANT, WKMG-TV LOCAL 6'S MOTION TO INTERVENE FOR THE LIMITED PURPOSE OF OPPOSING MOTION CONCERNING EXTRA-JUDICIAL COMMENTS
11/24/2008 A NOTICE OF HEARING FILED <11/25/2008> 02:00 P.M. MOTION CONCERNING EXTRA-JUDICAL COMMENTS * COPIES OF NOTICE OF HEARING TO GEORGE ANTHONY; LEE ANTHONY; JAMES MCGUIRE; CYNTHIA ANTHONY (ATTACHED)
11/24/2008 A AMENDED SUPPLEMENTAL STATE WITNESS LIST FILED
11/25/2008 A APPEAR. OF ATTORNEY ENTERED
11/25/2008 A COURT MINUTES FILED
11/25/2008 A DEFENDANT NOT PRESENT
11/25/2008 A MEMORANDUM OF LAW FILED IN OPEN COURT
11/25/2008 A MOTION TO QUASH WITNESS SUBPOENA TO HOLLY BRISTOW
11/25/2008 A EMERGENCY MOTION TO BE EXCUSED FROM COMPLYING WITH SUBPOENA AND FOR EXTENTION OF TIME TO FILE MOTION TO QUASH
11/25/2008 A NOTICE OF PROVISION OF SUPPLEMENTAL DISCOVERY
11/25/2008 A IN OPEN COURT HEARING
11/25/2008 A ORDER/DEFENSE ATTY WAIVES HIS CLIENTS APPEARNCE FROM TODAYS HEARING, (SEE COURT MINUTES)
11/26/2008 A CORRESPONDENCE FILED FROM ROBERT E. HANSELL, SHERRIFF TO ATTY BAEZ, RECEIVED FROM JUDGE
11/26/2008 A WOFL FOX 35'S MOTION TO INTERVENE FOR THE LIMITED PURPOSE OF OPPOSING THE STATE'S MOTION TO LIMIT PRETRIAL EXTRAJUDICIAL COMMENTS FILED
11/26/2008 A ORDER DENYING THE STATE'S MOTION CONCERNING EXTRA-JUDICIAL COMMENTS (GAG ORDER)
12/1/2008 A ORLANDO SENTINEL COMMUNICATION'S COMPANY AND WFTV, INC'S SUPPLEMENTAL BRIEF IN OPPOSITION TO THE STATE'S MOTION CONCERNING EXTRA-JUDICIAL COMMENTS (W/ATTACHMENT)

[Gatordog]

According to neighbors, the water had only just receded about the time that Caylee's remains were discovered.

The video is reported to be only about 90 seconds in length. It can't cover much of the area in question. Agree that the video doesn't belong to Baez and the Anthonys don't have any sort of privilege/work product clause going for them.

If LP has a valid Daisy Chain Theory, he needs to spit it out all at one sitting. Fed and sick up with his carrot and stick schtick. Out with it man! Who/How/Where is the fconnection?!

And does anyone know how it is that LE learned about the video(s)? The PIs called them and reported them? Gossip?? Nancy Grace???

Not for anything but I don't understand what all the fuss is about. The defense is, once again, just trying to muddy the waters. It is my understanding that Dominic was hired by Kidfinders and the Anthonys to find Caylee, not to work to release the liar. He was hired to find Caylee so what does Baez have to do with this?

[Peachallie]

Here is the rest; no Notice of Taking Depositions yet. No way this can be tried in March.

12/1/2008 A ORLANDO SENTINEL COMMUNICATION'S COMPANY AND WFTV, INC'S SUPPLEMENTAL BRIEF IN OPPOSITION TO THE STATE'S MOTION CONCERNING EXTRA-JUDICIAL COMMENTS (W/ATTACHMENT)
12/1/2008 A SUPPLEMENTAL MEMORANDUM OF LAW IN OPPOSITION TO STATE OF FLORIDAS MOTION CONCERNING EXTRA-JUDICIAL COMMENTS
12/3/2008 A MOTION TO QUASH WITNESS SUBPOENA AND MOTION FOR PROTECTIVE ORDER (COPY OF SUBPOENA ATTACHED - EXHIBIT A)
12/3/2008 A MOTION FOR STATEMENT OF PARTICULARS (AS TO AGGRAVATING CIRCUMSTANCES)
12/3/2008 A NOTICE OF PROVISION OF SUPPLEMENTAL DISCOVERY
12/4/2008 A ORDER TO PRESERVE FORINSIC EVIDENCE AND FOR COURT TO CONSIDER ADDITINAL TESTING
12/4/2008 A ORDER TO COMPEL CALENDAR AND TIMELINES GRANTED
12/4/2008 A AMENDED SUPPLEMENTAL STATE WITNESS LIST
12/5/2008 A NOTICE OF INTENTION NOT TO SEEK THE DEATH PENALTY
12/8/2008 A APPLICATION FOR SUBPOENA DUCES TECUM
12/9/2008 A AMENDED STATE WITNESS LIST FILED
12/9/2008 A STATE' S MOTION TO STRIKE DEFENSE WITNESS LIST (COPY OF DEFENSE WITNESS LIST ATTACHED - EXHIBIT A)
12/11/2008 A DEFENDANT NOT PRESENT
12/11/2008 A COUNSEL PRESENT - JOSE BAEZ. DEFENDANT WAIVES RIGHT TO SPEEDY TRIAL
12/11/2008 A EMERGENCY MOTION TO PRESERVE/INSPECT EVIDENCE AND PARTICIPATE IN FORENSIC TESTING
12/11/2008 A NOTICE OF HEARING FILED <01/15/2009> 09:00 A.M.
12/11/2008 A NOTICE OF HEARING FILED <12/12/2008> 11:30 A.M.
12/11/2008 A IN OPEN COURT
12/11/2008 A WAIVER DEFENDANT'S ATTENDANCE AT PRETRIAL CONFERENCE FILED
12/11/2008 A WAIVER OF SPEEDY TRIAL FILED
12/12/2008 A CORRESPONDENCE FILED *
12/12/2008 A DEFENDANT NOT PRESENT
12/12/2008 A ORANGE COUNTY'S RESPONSE TO DEFENDANT'S EMERGENCY MOTION TO PRESERVE/INSPECT EVIDENCE AND PARTICIPATE IN FORENSIC TESTING FILED
12/12/2008 A VERIFIED MOTION FOR ADMISSION TO APPEAR PRO HAC VICE FILED
12/12/2008 A COUNSEL PRESENT: JOSE BAEZ & LINDA KENNEY BADEN
12/12/2008 A DEFENSE MOTION FOR EMERGENCY MOTION TO PRESERVE/INSPECT EVIDENCE AND PARTICIPATE IN FORENSIC TESTING - DENIED
12/12/2008 A DEFENSE COUNSEL TO BE NOTIFIED UPON IDENTIFICATION OF BODY
12/12/2008 A AMENDED NOTICE OF HEARING FILED <12/12/2008> 11:30 A.M.
12/12/2008 A IN OPEN COURT
12/15/2008 A AMENDED STATE WITNESS LIST FILED
12/15/2008 A CORRESPONDENCE FILED VIA E-MAIL
12/15/2008 A EMERGENCY MOTION TO COMPEL PHOTGRAPHS, VIDEO RECORDINGS AND SCHEMATIC DRAWINGS TAKEN AT CRIME SCENE
12/15/2008 A EMERGENCY MOTION TO PRESERVE FORENSIC EVIDENCE AND APPOINT FOREENSIC EXPERT FOR THE COURT
12/15/2008 A CONTINUING REQUEST FOR 2ND AUTOPSY AND ALL RELATED MATERIALS
12/16/2008 A SWORN AFFIDAVIT OF TIMOTHY JUNTINGTON FILED IN OPEN COURT
12/16/2008 A APPEAR. OF ATTORNEY ENTERED
12/16/2008 A COURT MINUTES FILED
12/16/2008 A DEFENDANT NOT PRESENT
12/16/2008 A NOTICE OF HEARING FILED <12/16/2008> 02:00 P.M.
12/16/2008 A IN OPEN COURT HEARING
12/16/2008 A ORDER CONTINUING REQUEST FOR SECOND AUTOPSY-MOOT, DEFENSES MOTION TO PRESERVE FORENSIC EVIDENCE AND APPOINT FORENSIC EVIDENCE AND APPOINT FORENSIC EXPERT FOR THE COURT DENIED, DEFENSES EMERGENCY MOTION TO COMPEL PHOTOGRAPHS, VIDEO RECORDINGS AND SCHEMATIC DRAWINGS TAKEN AT CRIME SCENE DENIED, ATTORNEY LINDA KENNEY-BADEN APPEARED BY PHONE
12/17/2008 A NOTICE OF INTENT TO EXAMINE DEBRIS
12/19/2008 A AMENDED STATE WITNESS LIST FILED
12/22/2008 A EMERGENCY MOTION TO COMPEL PHOTOGRAPHS AND X-RAYS TAKEN OF REMAINS FILED
12/23/2008 A MOTION TO COMPEL PHOTOGRAPHS AND X-RAYS TAKEN OF REMAINS (REC'D FROM JUDGE)
12/23/2008 A ORDER DISPOSING OF EMERGENCY TO COMPEL PHOTOGRAPHS AND X-RAYS OF REMAINS GRANTED
12/24/2008 A EX PARTE MOTION TO APPOINT SPECIAL MASTER

[Gatordog]

I am glad that I am not the only who thinks the meter reader's directions were vague. And, if it does happen that this video was based on those directions, and the officers ended @ the same place, based on the vague directions, it is no wonder LE did NOT find anything, either.

This is not to cast suspicion or aspersions on the meter reader, I do not think he has anything to do w/anything, least of all a daisy chain. It's just that he was NOT clear about the directions @ all!!!!

The problem is the directions were not vague but exact. I was there and it is exactly where and how he described it. It is not where the friend said to search, that is further down. Kronk's directions are exact. if they just gave him some credibility they would have found the location and remains. There is no way Kronk could have been more clear.

Back when I posted that I left the flowers at the memorial the Sunday after the remains were found, I said there were going to be big problems to come because of where they were found.

Gator

[Gatordog]

Probably already answered by now, but the area where George was looking was several miles down the road, near where the KFN kiosk found a "permanent" home.

No, they are miles apart. George was spotted looking into the Woods on Hoffner and the KFN tent went up at Goldenrod and Colonial, spitting distance from the Amscott. Hoffner is about eight miles from Colonial.

Gator

[Gatordog]

************************************
It may have been accidental AND she didn't give a damn. If the state goes into fantasy land looking for the death penalty, she could WALK. The state knows their job, and none of the individuals involved are stupid. Life is the worst penalty this case can ever deliver.

(Aggravated child abuse would require proof of TRAUMA.)

Peach, I have a hypothetical for you: A man is having an asthma attack. His wife has his inhaler in her hand and chooses not to give it to him. Is that intentional homicide or natural death?

[FDInLaw]

************************************
It may have been accidental AND she didn't give a damn. If the state goes into fantasy land looking for the death penalty, she could WALK. The state knows their job, and none of the individuals involved are stupid. Life is the worst penalty this case can ever deliver.

(Aggravated child abuse would require proof of TRAUMA.)



I agree. At this point we do not know for certain how Caylee died or the amount of trauma (if any). . . sadly, we may never know for sure do to the condition her remains were found in.

Casey has shown a complete disregard for Caylee's life in the way she has conducted herself, that in itself is horrific. . . her level of selfishness is beyond common disdain. This is one sick lady, and I hope she receives the maximum punishment possible.

[Peachallie]

Peach, I have a hypothetical for you: A man is having an asthma attack. His wife has his inhaler in her hand and chooses not to give it to him. Is that intentional homicide or natural death?
************************************************** **
Natural death obviously. No one is required to be a good samaritan BUT, the state could try to show he MIGHT have gotten the inhaler had she not held it away from him,* THUS:

AGGRAVATED MANSLAUGHTER. Manslaughter is part of the homicide statutes. Culpable negligence is negligence so severe it amounts to a willful and wanton disregard for life. That is what I believe the state may be able to prove in this case. An accident can result in a manslaughter charge & conviction if the accident was caused by willful & wanton negligence. Allowing a 10 year old to drive for example, if it results in the child's injury or death has been so held, as has drunk & drugged driving. Children finding firearms and either injuring or killing themselves is a well publicized example wherein the negligence is so great parents have been convicted of manslaughter.


*I think they'd have a darn good case too.

[Peachallie]

I agree. At this point we do not know for certain how Caylee died or the amount of trauma (if any). . . sadly, we may never know for sure do to the condition her remains were found in.

Casey has shown a complete disregard for Caylee's life in the way she has conducted herself, that in itself is horrific. . . her level of selfishness is beyond common disdain. This is one sick lady, and I hope she receives the maximum punishment possible.
***************************************
She could get 30 for the death plus 40 on the others. That IS probably life with only 15% off for gain time.

[lorettalockhorn]

Yes I meant Casey. You may be right about addictions in the parents. I'm sure you don't mean that justifies anything Casey did.. Most likely they did let her down and cause and effect was in place. I felt sorry for Cindy tonight when I watched her writhing in pain. She couldn't hide her disdain for Casey. Her face, body, eyes and voice were all telling us that she wanted to choke her daughter. But, she couldn't reach her through that glass.

When George asked Casey if she had taken something that may have upset someone and she answered him with, "No, mom and I discussed that repeatedly " and then shrugged it off as if to say, don't bother me with that crap. (my words) Cindy's eyes looked like they were going to start shooting bullets. Good LORD!!!

Nothing justifies or excuses Casey's actions here. Even if Zenaida did exist and did kidnap Caylee, and murdered Caylee and dumped Caylee's body and wove a daisy chain for the meter reader to find Caylee's body after she had been moved from pillar to post; Casey is responsible because she didn't use her ubiquitous cellphone to call 911.

And speaking of that phone and all the pings; doncha just wonder if after she put Caylee out in the secret place she just drove around making calls like crazy knowing that her statement and usage would later be analyzed?? The phone could be the red herring here.

[lorettalockhorn]

*******************************************
Here is the law:

(1)(a) The unlawful killing of a human being:

1. When perpetrated from a premeditated design to effect the death of the person killed or any human being;

2. When committed by a person engaged in the perpetration of, or in the attempt to perpetrate, any:

a. Trafficking offense prohibited by s. 893.135(1),

b. Arson,

c. Sexual battery,

d. Robbery,

e. Burglary,

f. Kidnapping,

g. Escape,

h. Aggravated child abuse,

i. Aggravated abuse of an elderly person or disabled adult,

j. Aircraft piracy,

k. Unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb,

l. Carjacking,

m. Home-invasion robbery,

n. Aggravated stalking,

o. Murder of another human being,

p. Resisting an officer with violence to his or her person,

q. Felony that is an act of terrorism or is in furtherance of an act of terrorism; or

3. Which resulted from the unlawful distribution of any substance controlled under s. 893.03(1), cocaine as described in s. 893.03(2)(a)4., or opium or any synthetic or natural salt, compound, derivative, or preparation of opium by a person 18 years of age or older, when such drug is proven to be the proximate cause of the death of the user,

is murder in the first degree and constitutes a capital felony, punishable as provided in s. 775.082.

(b) In all cases under this section, the procedure set forth in s. 921.141 shall be followed in order to determine sentence of death or life imprisonment.
***************************************
Yes, the state took the death penalty out of consideration even BEFORE the body was found; obviously, they knew early on their case could not sustain such a penalty. And the state has had the autopsy results for two weeks now with no indication they are gonna add it back. Please remember, the medical examiner had to stretch to call it homicide for goodness sake. NO TRAUMA found on any of the bones recovered. This ain't a death case.......LIFE in prison remains a possibility.

I know no such thing.

[FDInLaw]

I know no such thing.I agree! Have the autopsy results been made public???

[lorettalockhorn]

I agree! Have the autopsy results been made public???

Not to my knowledge. The manner of death was homicide, and the cause of death was labeled as unknown. No doubt Dr. G used circumstantial evidence to come to the conclusion, but we don't really know that. We also don't know how many of Caylee's bones have been discovered, and we don't know how successful anyone has been at reconstructing her skeletal remains. I do think that I've read that there was no damage to the hyoid (bone), which would indicate that Caylee was not strangled.

We haven't heard much about the latest search of the Anthonys' home, but there were clues at the scene that pointed back to that house or its occupants. I just don't think The State is grasping at straws in this case like the defense is.

[Peachallie]

I agree! Have the autopsy results been made public???

Luckily, the state has personnel that are capable of handling the case & they know. Here is the law as to death as a sanction:

775.082 Penalties; applicability of sentencing structures; mandatory minimum sentences for certain reoffenders previously released from prison.--

(1) A person who has been convicted of a capital felony shall be punished by death if the proceeding held to determine sentence according to the procedure set forth in s. 921.141 results in findings by the court that such person shall be punished by death, otherwise such person shall be punished by life imprisonment and shall be ineligible for parole.
********************************************
NOTICE is required prior to requesting a death sentence. The state CANNOT just pop in the day before trial & announce they are seeking death. Again, the citation for free access to Florida law is Florida Law Online.

[deputydi]

Gator, drug trafficking is the SALE OR EXCHANGE for value. Trafficking involves large amounts also. (Chapter 893, Florida Statutes) I posted the actual law; only agg. child abuse is even a remote possibility. The medical examiner found NO TRAUMA AND admitted she had to rely upon circumstantial evidence to even determine it was homicide. The state attorney would not have taken the death penalty option away unless they knew their case did not fit into the parameters. And no, the state CANNOT announce that they are seeking death at the last minute.

The state will have a tough time putting her away for life at this point; in all probabilities that is what they are working on.
They can, but it would be stupid. If they announce they are seeking the death penalty -- say, a week before trial -- the defense can then request a continuance and most certainly one will be granted. All this would do is feed into the defense's desire to delay trial. Personally, I don't think they will seek the dp, but I hope there is enough evidence (that we don't know about yet) to support it. If they don't, I have no problem with her languishing in jail for the rest of her life.

If traces of chloroform cannot be found in Caylee's body, the chloroform levels found in the car, along with the odor of decomposition, could be enough for the jury to recommend death. Unless the chloroform was administered on a fairly regular basis, it's not going to show up in any hair analysis. I think their best hope for evidence of this theory is in any skin cells that remain on the duct tape. If this can be proven, they (IMO) can make a pretty good case for agg child abuse.

BTW, lack of trauma doesn't preclude the fact that a homicide occurred. This case is going to be tried exclusively on circumstantial evidence.

[Gatordog]

I agree! Have the autopsy results been made public???

It was an examination since there was nothing to autopsy and they have not been made public other than at the press conference annoncement. No test results yet.

[Gatordog]

************************************************** **
Natural death obviously. No one is required to be a good samaritan BUT, the state could try to show he MIGHT have gotten the inhaler had she not held it away from him,* THUS:

AGGRAVATED MANSLAUGHTER. Manslaughter is part of the homicide statutes. Culpable negligence is negligence so severe it amounts to a willful and wanton disregard for life. That is what I believe the state may be able to prove in this case. An accident can result in a manslaughter charge & conviction if the accident was caused by willful & wanton negligence. Allowing a 10 year old to drive for example, if it results in the child's injury or death has been so held, as has drunk & drugged driving. Children finding firearms and either injuring or killing themselves is a well publicized example wherein the negligence is so great parents have been convicted of manslaughter.


*I think they'd have a darn good case too.

Okay, I can agree with that.

[FDInLaw]

It was an examination since there was nothing to autopsy and they have not been made public other than at the press conference annoncement. No test results yet.Well, you better get on the press because they are using the same term. . . lol. :rolleyes:


http://cayleeanthony.wordpress.com/2008/12/23/second-autopsy-expected-for-caylee/

[lorettalockhorn]

************************************
It may have been accidental AND she didn't give a damn. If the state goes into fantasy land looking for the death penalty, she could WALK. The state knows their job, and none of the individuals involved are stupid. Life is the worst penalty this case can ever deliver.

(Aggravated child abuse would require proof of TRAUMA.)

I'm no attorney (but I don't think anyone here is), nevertheless, I'll jump in and say that I don't believe proof of trauma is required to prove aggravated child abuse:

827.03 Abuse, aggravated abuse, and neglect of a child; penalties.--

(2) "Aggravated child abuse" occurs when a person:

(a) Commits aggravated battery on a child;

(b) Willfully tortures, maliciously punishes, or willfully and unlawfully cages a child; or

(c) Knowingly or willfully abuses a child and in so doing causes great bodily harm, permanent disability, or permanent disfigurement to the child.

A person who commits aggravated child abuse commits a felony of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

http://www.miami-criminal-lawyer.net/html/child-abuse.html

[Gatordog]

Peach - I have another question since you are extremely knowledgeable on the topic. Regarding the duct tape, if it was placed over Caylee's mouth while she was alive and she vomitted, is it possible that traces of vomit could be on the tape and would that alter the charges?

Gator

[FDInLaw]

I'm no attorney (but I don't think anyone here is), nevertheless, I'll jump in and say that I don't believe proof of trauma is required to prove aggravated child abuse:

827.03 Abuse, aggravated abuse, and neglect of a child; penalties.--

(2) "Aggravated child abuse" occurs when a person:

(a) Commits aggravated battery on a child;

(b) Willfully tortures, maliciously punishes, or willfully and unlawfully cages a child; or

(c) Knowingly or willfully abuses a child and in so doing causes great bodily harm, permanent disability, or permanent disfigurement to the child.

A person who commits aggravated child abuse commits a felony of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

http://www.miami-criminal-lawyer.net/html/child-abuse.htmlFor this, they would have to prove that Caylee was placed in the trunk alive, would they not?

[Gatordog]

Well, you better get on the press because they are using the same term. . . lol. :rolleyes:


http://cayleeanthony.wordpress.com/2008/12/23/second-autopsy-expected-for-caylee/

I can't take credit for it. Dr. Perper corrected Nancy Grace when she called it an autopsy. ;)

Gator

[lorettalockhorn]

For this, they would have to prove that Caylee was placed in the trunk alive, would they not?

Maybe they can. I just don't think for a minute that we've seen all of the evidence that LE has. The point of my post and link was that proof of trauma is not required as peachallie has asserted. Without any links for us to read.

[FDInLaw]

Maybe they can. I just don't think for a minute that we've seen all of the evidence that LE has. The point of my post and link was that proof of trauma is not required as peachallie has asserted. Without any links for us to read.

"Great bodily harm" is such a broad term. . . certainly an overdose could be included. Even if “accidental” Casey willfully placed Caylee in danger and ultimately caused her death. Thank you for posting this. :seeya:

[lorettalockhorn]

"Great bodily harm" is such a broad term. . . certainly an overdose could be included. Even if “accidental” Casey willfully placed Caylee in danger and ultimately caused her death. Thank you for posting this. :seeya:

Leaving Caylee with a non-existant nanny for 1 1/2 - 2 years sounds like a circumstance that would place her in great bodily harm. I just think it's ridiculous that anyone would argue that The State has no grounds for asking for the death penalty (at this point in the case).

[Peachallie]

They can, but it would be stupid. If they announce they are seeking the death penalty -- say, a week before trial -- the defense can then request a continuance and most certainly one will be granted. All this would do is feed into the defense's desire to delay trial. Personally, I don't think they will seek the dp, but I hope there is enough evidence (that we don't know about yet) to support it. If they don't, I have no problem with her languishing in jail for the rest of her life.
********************************************
Me neither. So, the state CAN request death late in the action, but the court might sanction a late death request & then the state might have trouble getting ANY conviction.
********************************************
If traces of chloroform cannot be found in Caylee's body, the chloroform levels found in the car, along with the odor of decomposition, could be enough for the jury to recommend death. Unless the chloroform was administered on a fairly regular basis, it's not going to show up in any hair analysis. I think their best hope for evidence of this theory is in any skin cells that remain on the duct tape. If this can be proven, they (IMO) can make a pretty good case for agg child abuse.

BTW, lack of trauma doesn't preclude the fact that a homicide occurred. This case is going to be tried exclusively on circumstantial evidence.
********************************************
The circumstances are quite serious for the defendant. She had a duty to keep her child from harm; not only did her child die from as yet undetermined causes, but the remains were found by strangers months after the fact. All the facts lead to the conclusion of criminal wrongdoing on the part of Casey Anthony. 30 years would be a GIFT at this point. One last note: the elder Anthonys may want immunity to help with any CIVIL proceedings. Who has standing to sue is the question. The immunity request could be SOP on the part of their attorney.

[Peachallie]

"Great bodily harm" is such a broad term. . . certainly an overdose could be included. Even if “accidental” Casey willfully placed Caylee in danger and ultimately caused her death. Thank you for posting this. :seeya:

****************************************
Here is the definition of aggravated child abuse, from Ch. 827, Florida Statutes, this is NOT a third party interpretation:

(2) "Aggravated child abuse" occurs when a person:

(a) Commits aggravated battery on a child;

(b) Willfully tortures, maliciously punishes, or willfully and unlawfully cages a child; or

(c) Knowingly or willfully abuses a child and in so doing causes great bodily harm, permanent disability, or permanent disfigurement to the child.

A person who commits aggravated child abuse commits a felony of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
*****************************************
The law of Florida is available at Florida Law Online, click Florida Statutes. Third party summaries are not reliable. I'll try to post links for the homicide & child abuse statutes again:

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0782/ch0782.htm

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0827/ch0827.htm

The laws are also available through "Online Sunshine" but it takes longer to get to them; Florida Law Online is quicker.

[Woostock]

Isn't that the same information as Loretta found?

[FDInLaw]

Isn't that the same information as Loretta found?

Yep. Sure looks the same to me.

Guess it must be important stuff. :D

[deputydi]

********************************************
The circumstances are quite serious for the defendant. She had a duty to keep her child from harm; not only did her child die from as yet undetermined causes, but the remains were found by strangers months after the fact. All the facts lead to the conclusion of criminal wrongdoing on the part of Casey Anthony. 30 years would be a GIFT at this point. One last note: the elder Anthonys may want immunity to help with any CIVIL proceedings. Who has standing to sue is the question. The immunity request could be SOP on the part of their attorney.
I agree totally with this post.

You may be right about the immunity request. I also can't think of anyone who would have standing. Unless the biodad steps forward and that seems very unlikely.

I think they are asking for immunity because they know something that could lead to charges being filed against them. Possibly obstruction. For a long time I thought they were as clueless as anyone about what happened to Caylee. More recently I am beginning to wonder if they found something in the home that they hid from LE and are worried about it. Something that they believe may be connected to Casey's guilt. I still don't think Cindy and George were involved in any way with Caylee's death or hiding her body after the fact. As to Lee's involvement -- I'm still not sure.

[lorettalockhorn]

Isn't that the same information as Loretta found?

No clue why (s)he does that. It's not the first time. For some reason, (s)he won't post a link until someone else does. :rolleyes:

[Justice Denied?]

The problem is the directions were not vague but exact. I was there and it is exactly where and how he described it. It is not where the friend said to search, that is further down. Kronk's directions are exact. if they just gave him some credibility they would have found the location and remains. There is no way Kronk could have been more clear.

Back when I posted that I left the flowers at the memorial the Sunday after the remains were found, I said there were going to be big problems to come because of where they were found.
Gator

Gator,

What made you feel that way? This whole thing is terribly confusing to me.

[One2Snoop]

http://i39.tinypic.com/2vjcrkk.jpg
Orange County Sheriff's Office
This undated photo shows missing girl Caylee Anthony
reading a storybook police say they found in the
woods near her family's home.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,474746,00.html

[lorettalockhorn]

http://i39.tinypic.com/2vjcrkk.jpg
Orange County Sheriff's Office
This undated photo shows missing girl Caylee Anthony
reading a storybook police say they found in the
woods near her family's home.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,474746,00.html

So sad to know that it was this particular book. The video of Caylee reading it is one of the most endearing that we've seen.

I know that sounds ridiculous, but humor an old lady. It's all sad beyond understanding.

[FDInLaw]

Doing research on kiomarie Cruz. . . can't believe I'm reading the National Enquirer (lol):

In a blockbuster exclusive ENQUIRER interview, the 22-year-old travel agent, who's listed as a prosecution witness in Casey's upcoming murder trial, revealed shocking, never-before-disclosed details of the crime that broke America's heart.

Kiomarie reveals a key piece of information that the prosecution could use to establish motive: Casey never wanted Caylee. In fact, when she was pregnant, she agreed to give up the baby to Kiomarie to adopt the baby…but Casey's mom hated the idea and the plan was dropped.

Kiomarie remained so close to Casey that Casey gave Caylee the middle name of Marie, in honor of Kiomarie.

In a chilling disclosure, Kiomarie told The ENQUIRER that the area where a body presumed to be Caylee was found was a secret hideaway of Casey's, and that she had long used it as a pet cemetery.

Kiomarie and Casey called that area The Zone - a secret place where as girls they would dress all in black and read prayers as they buried their dead pets.

Way back in July, Kiomarie says she told police of her suspicions that Caylee's body might be found in The Zone. The cops investigated, but nothing was found in the thick brush until a meter reader stumbled across the remains December 11th.
SEE

http://www.nationalenquirer.com/i_could_have_saved_caylee_anthony_casy_anthony_bes t_friend_/celebrity/65924

See link for full article.

[Peachallie]

[QUOTE=lorettalockhorn;9149597]I'm no attorney (but I don't think anyone here is
************************************

I am an attorney in Florida, and have been for 22 years. Here is a case on agg. child abuse:

https://www.fastcase.com/Pages/Document.aspx?LTID=ufu5CWYD%2fVJ3abAAVvDlpZRz9M87G q0oGgEO9ueb2xc%2bLyribzg13f%2f1%2bk0XxJLNT%2fvOBR4 6QCMJaVJozVvTZgKlLm5TZKRZ%2b7WubR1sUIh6NTMz7w3ub%2 blWeDfreopO
*************************************

As nothing indicates a prolonged course of conduct as described in Kokx v. State, 498 So.2d 534, physical trauma would probably be needed to qualify this as a death case. The state conceding it is not makes it REALITY.

[Peachallie]

So sad to know that it was this particular book. The video of Caylee reading it is one of the most endearing that we've seen.

I know that sounds ridiculous, but humor an old lady. It's all sad beyond understanding.
********************************************
It is not ridiculous to me; it is heart wrenching. The HOW could SHE put herself before that child? WHY did SHE not appreciate that child? questions should not go away.

[One2Snoop]

I'm way behind in my reading so forgive me if this has already been discussed...

Leonard Padilla said the PI knew where the body was on November 15th according to a phone conversation he had with Dominic C(below) - LP was searching Blanchard Park as late as November 13th and was insistent Caylee's body would be found there. In fact he had plans to go back some time in January to continue the search. Why would he continue to make plans to search Blanchard Park in Jan if he already knew in mid November where the body might be? Why didn't he make plans to search the land instead? :shrug:

Sorry, LP confuses the heck out of me. :confused:

Padilla states on Jan 1, 2009

Padilla Says P.I. Knew Where Caylee's Remains Were

"He says, 'Yeah Dominic called me on the 15th and said you gotta get up here we found Caylee.' Hoover tells me that he then asked Dominic 'Is she alive?' 'No she's dead,'" said Padilla.
http://www.wftv.com/news/18394140/detail.html

Detectives Say Dive Team Did Not Find Caylee's Bones
Thursday, November 13, 2008 – updated: 5:57 pm EST November 13, 2008

[lorettalockhorn]

[QUOTE=lorettalockhorn;9149597]I'm no attorney (but I don't think anyone here is
************************************

I am an attorney in Florida, and have been for 22 years. Here is a case on agg. child abuse:

https://www.fastcase.com/Pages/Document.aspx?LTID=ufu5CWYD%2fVJ3abAAVvDlpZRz9M87G q0oGgEO9ueb2xc%2bLyribzg13f%2f1%2bk0XxJLNT%2fvOBR4 6QCMJaVJozVvTZgKlLm5TZKRZ%2b7WubR1sUIh6NTMz7w3ub%2 blWeDfreopO
*************************************

As nothing indicates a prolonged course of conduct as described in Kokx v. State, 498 So.2d 534, physical trauma would probably be needed to qualify this as a death case. The state conceding it is not makes it REALITY.

You're kidding right? I flove a kidder!!

********************************************
It is not ridiculous to me; it is heart wrenching. The HOW could SHE put herself before that child? WHY did SHE not appreciate that child? questions should not go away.

Peach, I wasn't referring to any part or parcel of the case by using the word ridiculous, but my reaction to this news. Sheesh

[One2Snoop]

************************************

I am an attorney in Florida, and have been for 22 years. Here is a case on agg. child abuse:

https://www.fastcase.com/Pages/Document.aspx?LTID=ufu5CWYD%2fVJ3abAAVvDlpZRz9M87G q0oGgEO9ueb2xc%2bLyribzg13f%2f1%2bk0XxJLNT%2fvOBR4 6QCMJaVJozVvTZgKlLm5TZKRZ%2b7WubR1sUIh6NTMz7w3ub%2 blWeDfreopO
*************************************

As nothing indicates a prolonged course of conduct as described in Kokx v. State, 498 So.2d 534, physical trauma would probably be needed to qualify this as a death case. The state conceding it is not makes it REALITY.

Please understand, many people come to message boards and try to claim they are doctor's, lawyers, scientists etc.. (not picking on anyone in particular). For the most part I believe people are on the up and up but we have encountered a few on this message board where it turned out not to be true. Verification can be made through the administrator (Deepwater). I can send you a pm to let you know how this can be done if you like?

Welcome to CL. :seeya:

[Peachallie]

Peach - I have another question since you are extremely knowledgeable on the topic. Regarding the duct tape, if it was placed over Caylee's mouth while she was alive and she vomitted, is it possible that traces of vomit could be on the tape and would that alter the charges?

Gator
*****************************************
First, if the state can PROVE duct tape was placed over her mouth while alive that would go to show premeditation (and possibly heinous, atrocious & cruel) and I'd think the state has good shot at a 1st degree murder conviction. Organic material ON the tape isn't going to prove the child was alive when the duct tape was placed there however. Vomiting is a normal side effect of chloroform administration. As I wrote, it MIGHT be that the duct tape was to keep out insect infestation (I read that a maggot was found in the trunk). It could have been used to keep body fluids from spilling onto the carpet also.*


*If so, THAT also shows a cold hearted & wanton disregard for human life that is difficult to fathom.

[javahog]

NG showed the videos again tonight. Every time I see those people talk to each other I hear and see more amazing things. Again I ask, is it impossible for them to look at each other when they are speaking to each other?

Tonight I noticed that Cindy was in agony. Her body language was telling us all that she knew the truth and her incessant questions were driving miss liar to an almost fit. I saw them back peddling and apologizing for asking questions because Casey was ready to hang up on them and leave. Cindy grabbed her head at one point and was rocking back and forth at times which confirms to me, that she was losing it. So much pain, so much horror and Casey still found it appropriate to laugh and joke.

This is one scary killer! She was shrewd, glib, indifferent at Lee's long drawn out dialog, bored at times and cold as ice. Cindy was saying repeatedly, we have to get her home for her birthday and Casey was seething. I did notice this time that no one said Caylee's name... she was referred to as "That little girl" and when Cindy said, "I want her home? Casey snapped at her and yelled, "SO DO I!"

Horrible all of it!

HI and happy New Year!

I couldn't take my eyes off George. I noticed that every time a particularly heinous bit of bs (imo) came outta there, he would blink hard and look to the left, pursing his lips. I know when I do that, I am about to blow...I'll bet that as a former cop, he would never imagine that the worst interrogations he would ever have would be of his own daughter...moo.

[lorettalockhorn]

Please understand, many people come to message boards and try to claim they are doctor's, lawyers, scientists etc.. (not picking on anyone in particular). For the most part I believe people are on the up and up but we have encountered a few on this message board where it turned out not to be true. Verification can be made through the administrator (Deepwater). I can send you a pm to let you know how this can be done if you like?

Welcome to CL. :seeya:

I don't think anyone really cares whether or not someone is or isn't an attorney, butcher, baker, or candlestick maker. Isn't the point of the board simply to communicate? Hopefully in a logical and coherent way?

[One2Snoop]

Doing research on kiomarie Cruz. . . can't believe I'm reading the National Enquirer (lol):



http://www.nationalenquirer.com/i_could_have_saved_caylee_anthony_casy_anthony_bes t_friend_/celebrity/65924

See link for full article.

I can't believe you were reading it either LOL. :tongue: I wonder how much Kiomarie was paid for the story? Thanks for posting. :seeya:

[One2Snoop]

I don't think anyone really cares whether or not someone is or isn't an attorney, butcher, baker, or candlestick maker. Isn't the point of the board simply to communicate? Hopefully in a logical and coherent way?

That's what I would think. It makes no difference to me one way or the other though. Since peach offered the info that he/she was an atty I was just offering a way for it to be verified. No biggie. :seeya:

[javahog]

*****************************************
First, if the state can PROVE duct tape was placed over her mouth while alive that would go to show premeditation (and possibly heinous, atrocious & cruel) and I'd think the state has good shot at a 1st degree murder conviction. Organic material ON the tape isn't going to prove the child was alive when the duct tape was placed there however. Vomiting is a normal side effect of chloroform administration. As I wrote, it MIGHT be that the duct tape was to keep out insect infestation (I read that a maggot was found in the trunk). It could have been used to keep body fluids from spilling onto the carpet also.*


*If so, THAT also shows a cold hearted & wanton disregard for human life that is difficult to fathom.

Okay, I can't resist anymore...Where is this bug theory of yours coming from? I can picture it coming from KC as an attempt to avoid the DP, but then nothing she says makes any sense anyway...It just sounds like the kind of thing Baez would throw at the barn door to see if it might "stick"...

If the duct tape was to keep bugs out of the mouth because KC was "delicate", well, then wouldn't it have to be put on EVERY orifice (sorry to be so graphic). As for the maggots, they came FROM the decomp factors, it was not a maggot-mobile prior to, say, having a decomposing body in the trunk (theoretically-my husband sometimes refers to my car as The Composter...)-its not like anyone would look in their trunk and say, ooh, a maggot, I would best cover the mouth...

I agree that if there is bio material on the duct tape it would not likely prove vomit after all this exposure time, but if there is vomitus, then would that not prove she was alive with it on, as the vomiting would be an agonal phase issue and therefor be antemortum?

Sorry, I just am mystified by this mouth/insect theory and hope for some clarification of your train of thought on this...

[deputydi]

Okay, I can't resist anymore...Where is this bug theory of yours coming from? I can picture it coming from KC as an attempt to avoid the DP, but then nothing she says makes any sense anyway...It just sounds like the kind of thing Baez would throw at the barn door to see if it might "stick"...

If the duct tape was to keep bugs out of the mouth because KC was "delicate", well, then wouldn't it have to be put on EVERY orifice (sorry to be so graphic). As for the maggots, they came FROM the decomp factors, it was not a maggot-mobile prior to, say, having a decomposing body in the trunk (theoretically-my husband sometimes refers to my car as The Composter...)-its not like anyone would look in their trunk and say, ooh, a maggot, I would best cover the mouth...

I agree that if there is bio material on the duct tape it would not likely prove vomit after all this exposure time, but if there is vomitus, then would that not prove she was alive with it on, as the vomiting would be an agonal phase issue and therefor be antemortum?

Sorry, I just am mystified by this mouth/insect theory and hope for some clarification of your train of thought on this...

I am glad I read your post before I commented. My thoughts are the same as yours. Dead bodies do not vomit. Therefore, the logical conclusion would be if vomitus is found, Caylee was alive when the tape was put over her mouth.

As for the mouth/insect theory, that sounds to me like a defense explanation that is simply preposterous.

From an emotional standpoint, I think we ALL would like to see the dp charged. Although I do believe the pros can get a 1st degree conviction, proving the elements necessary for the dp may be a little more difficult. My hope is they let the jury decide. After weighing all the evidence, they may return with a recommendation of life anyway and that would be just fine. I just want them to have the option.

[Peachallie]

I don't think anyone really cares whether or not someone is or isn't an attorney, butcher, baker, or candlestick maker. Isn't the point of the board simply to communicate? Hopefully in a logical and coherent way?
******************************************
I am an attorney & posted from Fastcase, the Florida Bar research site. But as I am OFF WORK when I post, I see no need to be verified. I won't be billing anybody. Lockhorn touched upon something important to remember; if the case goes to a jury, the FACTS won't be decided by those schooled in the law. The law exists FOR the community, it is not meant to be separate from it. AND, in any event, reading this message board offers more insight than 20 attorneys arguing the fine points of chapter 90 (evidence). That is why people who are NOT involved in the legal system are sometimes hired to test legal arguments prior to trials, if clients can afford it that is.


(I do about half & half civil & criminal; LOTS of dependencies, and I live & practice in Florida; perhaps that is why I find this case so interesting. I was talking with other attorneys about it briefly before court about ten days ago & decided to search for a message board about it)

[One2Snoop]

Secret video in Caylee case? 2:37
Panelists on Headline News' Nancy Grace discuss whether or not there is secret video of the Caylee Anthony murder scene.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/crime/2008/12/31/grace.williams.jvm.cnn

[lorettalockhorn]

Secret video in Caylee case? 2:37
Panelists on Headline News' Nancy Grace discuss whether or not there is secret video of the Caylee Anthony murder scene.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/crime/2008/12/31/grace.williams.jvm.cnn

Interesting that they refer to the area as the "murder" scene. Do they really think that's where Caylee was killed?

Thanks so much for the link; found this underneath (which I hadn't seen before):

Public memorial service planned for Caylee

ORLANDO, Florida (CNN) -- The grandparents of slain toddler Caylee Anthony said Tuesday they will hold private and public memorials and asked people not to donate any money toward funeral expenses...

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/12/23/caylee.memorial/index.html

[lorettalockhorn]

******************************************
I am an attorney & posted from Fastcase, the Florida Bar research site. But as I am OFF WORK when I post, I see no need to be verified. I won't be billing anybody. Lockhorn touched upon something important to remember; if the case goes to a jury, the FACTS won't be decided by those schooled in the law. The law exists FOR the community, it is not meant to be separate from it. AND, in any event, reading this message board offers more insight than 20 attorneys arguing the fine points of chapter 90 (evidence). That is why people who are NOT involved in the legal system are sometimes hired to test legal arguments prior to trials, if clients can afford it that is.


(I do about half & half civil & criminal; LOTS of dependencies, and I live & practice in Florida; perhaps that is why I find this case so interesting. I was talking with other attorneys about it briefly before court about ten days ago & decided to search for a message board about it)

I was just thinking that it's probably a good thing that the jury won't be made up of attorneys!

[lorettalockhorn]

Okay, I can't resist anymore...Where is this bug theory of yours coming from? I can picture it coming from KC as an attempt to avoid the DP, but then nothing she says makes any sense anyway...It just sounds like the kind of thing Baez would throw at the barn door to see if it might "stick"...

If the duct tape was to keep bugs out of the mouth because KC was "delicate", well, then wouldn't it have to be put on EVERY orifice (sorry to be so graphic). As for the maggots, they came FROM the decomp factors, it was not a maggot-mobile prior to, say, having a decomposing body in the trunk (theoretically-my husband sometimes refers to my car as The Composter...)-its not like anyone would look in their trunk and say, ooh, a maggot, I would best cover the mouth...

I agree that if there is bio material on the duct tape it would not likely prove vomit after all this exposure time, but if there is vomitus, then would that not prove she was alive with it on, as the vomiting would be an agonal phase issue and therefor be antemortum?

Sorry, I just am mystified by this mouth/insect theory and hope for some clarification of your train of thought on this...

The jury will be bombarded minimally with the graphic nature of the disposal of Caylee's body, and I don't think we can hide from it either.

The stages of death have been posted here a couple of times:

...After 3 days:
21} The gases in the body tissues form large blisters on the skin
22} The whole body begins to bloat and swell grotesquely. This process is speeded up if victim is in a hot environment, or in water
23} Fluids leak from the mouth, nose, eyes, ears and rectum and urinary opening...


http://www.anomalies-unlimited.com/Death/Stages.html

If Casey didn't tape Caylee's mouth to shut her up, I think she used the tape to prevent #23, rather than to keep insects out of Caylee's mouth.

[javahog]

The jury will be bombarded minimally with the graphic nature of the disposal of Caylee's body, and I don't think we can hide from it either.

The stages of death have been posted here a couple of times:

...After 3 days:
21} The gases in the body tissues form large blisters on the skin
22} The whole body begins to bloat and swell grotesquely. This process is speeded up if victim is in a hot environment, or in water
23} Fluids leak from the mouth, nose, eyes, ears and rectum and urinary opening...


http://www.anomalies-unlimited.com/Death/Stages.html

If Casey didn't tape Caylee's mouth to shut her up, I think she used the tape to prevent #23, rather than to keep insects out of Caylee's mouth.

Someone should tell her 3M doesn't make tape big enough to solve that problem, then...the human body is >60% fluid...

[FDInLaw]

My thoughts on the duct tape and maggot theory. . . I don't think it is common knowledge, especially for a 22 year old, what happens to a body post mortem. So it is extremely doubtful that the tape would have been used as a preventative measure. Now, if Casey moved the body and was presented with handling a decaying corpse. . . in her shoes I would want to have as little contact and proximity as possible. Call me a sicko for thinking this out, but I would have put a tarp or something down in the trunk and wrapped the body. I can't imagine anyone putting duct tape on a cadaver at that stage. . . I have to break and say EWWWWWWWWWWWWW!

I am curious to know if the tape was over Caylee's nose. This might support this theory if it is the case.

Peachallie, do you know of a case where this happened???

If the tape was used to keep the child quiet, as a fool that has covered her mouth just prior to vomiting, I can attest to the fact that when the oral cavity is blocked the nasal becomes an escape route.

Now. . . I'm off to finish dinner (lol).

[FDInLaw]

******************************************
I am an attorney & posted from Fastcase, the Florida Bar research site. But as I am OFF WORK when I post, I see no need to be verified. I won't be billing anybody. Lockhorn touched upon something important to remember; if the case goes to a jury, the FACTS won't be decided by those schooled in the law. The law exists FOR the community, it is not meant to be separate from it. AND, in any event, reading this message board offers more insight than 20 attorneys arguing the fine points of chapter 90 (evidence). That is why people who are NOT involved in the legal system are sometimes hired to test legal arguments prior to trials, if clients can afford it that is.


(I do about half & half civil & criminal; LOTS of dependencies, and I live & practice in Florida; perhaps that is why I find this case so interesting. I was talking with other attorneys about it briefly before court about ten days ago & decided to search for a message board about it)
It's good to have you! :seeya:

[javahog]

My thoughts on the duct tape and maggot theory. . . I don't think it is common knowledge, especially for a 22 year old, what happens to a body post mortem. So it is extremely doubtful that the tape would have been used as a preventative measure. Now, if Casey moved the body and was presented with handling a decaying corpse. . . in her shoes I would want to have as little contact and proximity as possible. Call me a sicko for thinking this out, but I would have put a tarp or something down in the trunk and wrapped the body. I can't imagine anyone putting duct tape on a cadaver at that stage. . . I have to break and say EWWWWWWWWWWWWW!

I am curious to know if the tape was over Caylee's nose. This might support this theory if it is the case.

Peachallie, do you know of a case where this happened???

If the tape was used to keep the child quiet, as a fool that has covered her mouth just prior to vomiting, I can attest to the fact that when the oral cavity is blocked the nasal becomes an escape route.

Now. . . I'm off to finish dinner (lol).

:D enjoy dinner!

I wonder if we will get more detailed info about Casey's web searches prior to trial. I can picture her running into decomp info in between "missing children" and "household objects as weapons"...

Just curious, I think I've seen a pattern of judgments on her moral compass, but what do you all think of Casey's intelligence? I lean toward "not too bright but thinks she is"...

[FDInLaw]

:D enjoy dinner!

I wonder if we will get more detailed info about Casey's web searches prior to trial. I can picture her running into decomp info in between "missing children" and "household objects as weapons"...

Just curious, I think I've seen a pattern of judgments on her moral compass, but what do you all think of Casey's intelligence? I lean toward "not too bright but thinks she is"...
It would be interesting to know her IQ. Whatever it is, it hasn't helped her much.


Enjoy dinner :punch: ~ you're just happy that there is another sicko on this forum. :biggrin:

[Gatordog]

******************************************
I am an attorney & posted from Fastcase, the Florida Bar research site. But as I am OFF WORK when I post, I see no need to be verified. I won't be billing anybody. Lockhorn touched upon something important to remember; if the case goes to a jury, the FACTS won't be decided by those schooled in the law. The law exists FOR the community, it is not meant to be separate from it. AND, in any event, reading this message board offers more insight than 20 attorneys arguing the fine points of chapter 90 (evidence). That is why people who are NOT involved in the legal system are sometimes hired to test legal arguments prior to trials, if clients can afford it that is.


(I do about half & half civil & criminal; LOTS of dependencies, and I live & practice in Florida; perhaps that is why I find this case so interesting. I was talking with other attorneys about it briefly before court about ten days ago & decided to search for a message board about it)

Peach, I am glad that you chose this website. You have provided a lot of valuable info regarding the law and we have provided the emotional flip side. Everyone who knows me says I love to argue, I say it's just trying to look at the big picture, so I've really enjoyed your posts cause they get me going. It's not necessarily that I disagree, I just want to understand your point better.

Gator

[Gatordog]

It would be interesting to know her IQ. Whatever it is, it hasn't helped her much.


Enjoy dinner :punch: ~ you're just happy that there is another sicko on this forum. :biggrin:

I would think that she is a person of a higher average intelligence. She's 22 and although she did not go to college, she seems brighter than a lot of graduates her age. Her problem is that she thinks she is smarter than everyone else and that's far from accurate.

gator

[javahog]

It would be interesting to know her IQ. Whatever it is, it hasn't helped her much.


Enjoy dinner :punch: ~ you're just happy that there is another sicko on this forum. :biggrin:

True on both counts!

Specifically on the IQ, I guess there is testing IQ and functional IQ. You can be a member of MENSA, but if you can't function in society, that's NTB...

[Peachallie]

Okay, I can't resist anymore...Where is this bug theory of yours coming from? I can picture it coming from KC as an attempt to avoid the DP, but then nothing she says makes any sense anyway...It just sounds like the kind of thing Baez would throw at the barn door to see if it might "stick"...

If the duct tape was to keep bugs out of the mouth because KC was "delicate", well, then wouldn't it have to be put on EVERY orifice (sorry to be so graphic). As for the maggots, they came FROM the decomp factors, it was not a maggot-mobile prior to, say, having a decomposing body in the trunk (theoretically-my husband sometimes refers to my car as The Composter...)-its not like anyone would look in their trunk and say, ooh, a maggot, I would best cover the mouth...

I agree that if there is bio material on the duct tape it would not likely prove vomit after all this exposure time, but if there is vomitus, then would that not prove she was alive with it on, as the vomiting would be an agonal phase issue and therefor be antemortum?

Sorry, I just am mystified by this mouth/insect theory and hope for some clarification of your train of thought on this...
****************************************
The maggot found in the trunk of the vehicle & the ease of killing a two year if an adult so intends. Where does the theory of duct tape to silence the child come from? Why would anyone need to silence a child that tiny unless it WAS kidnapping & the child was to be kept alive? Is the theory that Casey Anthony wanted to kill her in a particular place?

[FDInLaw]

I would think that she is a person of a higher average intelligence. She's 22 and although she did not go to college, she seems brighter than a lot of graduates her age. Her problem is that she thinks she is smarter than everyone else and that's far from accurate.

gatorJust for fun I googled Hitler's IQ and this is what I found:

His personal doctors estimated it between 140-145, of course, with Hitlers track record we can't trust this source; they wouldn't have wanted to irritate him by telling him he had a low IQ.
Note
There's no record of his ever having taken an IQ test ... What's more, IQ tests were much less popular in Germany than in the U.S. and Britain, and so German doctors were often not very familiar with them.


http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_was_Hitler's_IQ

Casey seems to be dealt with in the same careful manner. . . I really wonder what her IQ is! She certainly is not dumb as a post.

[lorettalockhorn]

My thoughts on the duct tape and maggot theory. . . I don't think it is common knowledge, especially for a 22 year old, what happens to a body post mortem. So it is extremely doubtful that the tape would have been used as a preventative measure. Now, if Casey moved the body and was presented with handling a decaying corpse. . . in her shoes I would want to have as little contact and proximity as possible. Call me a sicko for thinking this out, but I would have put a tarp or something down in the trunk and wrapped the body. I can't imagine anyone putting duct tape on a cadaver at that stage. . . I have to break and say EWWWWWWWWWWWWW!

I am curious to know if the tape was over Caylee's nose. This might support this theory if it is the case.

Peachallie, do you know of a case where this happened???

If the tape was used to keep the child quiet, as a fool that has covered her mouth just prior to vomiting, I can attest to the fact that when the oral cavity is blocked the nasal becomes an escape route.

Now. . . I'm off to finish dinner (lol).

Manufacture of chloroform is not common knowledge either, but someone used her puter to search it, and voila! there was the presence of chloroform in her trunk. And some indications that children under the age of three do not exhibit much if any upon decomposition.

We don't know if the tape was over Caylee's nose; we're not even sure exactly what it means that the tape was "around" her head.

If the mouth was covered, of course emesis would exit the nose. As would body fluids on day three.

There has been news that Caylee was wrapped in something (maybe something that matched up with bedding from the Anthony home?), and double bagged. That would make handling the decomposing Caylee physically easier to handle.

[Gatordog]

Hey Peach, we are running out of attorneys down here to work on this case. You might have to drive down and offer your services.:D

Tonights news on Myfoxorlando and WESH: Dominic Casey very upset with the other PI, Hunter. Seems the video tape is of Dominic taking photos of the burial site prior to remains being found. Hunter is shopping the video around for sale to the media. Dominic said he will get an attorney and sue Hunter. Dominic states he never saw a body and had no knowledge that the body was there he said he took pictures of bottles, tires, trash. Dominic says there is no way to prove or disprove that the body was there. You just would not be able to tell. He did say he would fully cooperate with LE.

Fox states that it's reported that Hunter has videotaped over the original tape. :rolleyes:

Gator

[Peachallie]

I think LE,and the DA has a who SLEW of stuff, and it's going to be something when this case starts rolling!
******************************************
If so they are violating the law. Discovery has begun. The state cannot use evidence not given to defendant's counsel, AND may not hold back exculpatory evidence.

[Peachallie]

[QUOTE=Gator dog;9149653]Hey Peach, we are running out of attorneys down here to work on this case. You might have to drive down and offer your services.:D

**************************************
Nope, the physical area, the nightlife AND various "companions" of Casey Anthony may be real important. I remember now what else got me so interested in this case; I represented a parent in a dependency case about two years ago; because of a little girl less than two years of age. Accidental death in the parents' home. NO CHARGES WERE FILED, but the initial investigation was a tense, horrible time.

[Peachallie]

i was just thinking that it's probably a good thing that the jury won't be made up of attorneys!
*************************************
absolutely!

[lorettalockhorn]

****************************************
The maggot found in the trunk of the vehicle & the ease of killing a two year if an adult so intends. Where does the theory of duct tape to silence the child come from? Why would anyone need to silence a child that tiny unless it WAS kidnapping & the child was to be kept alive? Is the theory that Casey Anthony wanted to kill her in a particular place?

I take it that you do not have a two year old? Or never had a two year old?

[lorettalockhorn]

I think LE,and the DA has a who SLEW of stuff, and it's going to be something when this case starts rolling!
******************************************
If so they are violating the law. Discovery has begun. The state cannot use evidence not given to defendant's counsel, AND may not hold back exculpatory evidence.

Wait! I thought the Sunshine Law forces The State to make disclosure. Is there a cutoff as the case nears a court date? If information is given to the public, how is that not considered giving information to the defense?

[javahog]

****************************************
The maggot found in the trunk of the vehicle & the ease of killing a two year if an adult so intends. Where does the theory of duct tape to silence the child come from? Why would anyone need to silence a child that tiny unless it WAS kidnapping & the child was to be kept alive? Is the theory that Casey Anthony wanted to kill her in a particular place?

Logic is where the silencing theory comes from. If the info is accurate that there was tape over the mouth and chloroform in the trunk: Infants, let alone toddlers, are not quiet. "Tiny" does not take those little lungs into account-I am flinching from my 3 year old's volume as I type. I suspect that the tape was there to ensure silence in case Caylee woke up. No way a nearly 3 year old would wake in a trunk and silently wait for rescue. Hence, I believe, the tape. I'm one who suspects that it was "accidental", as much as drugging a child with homemade chloroform can be an accident (though I do wonder about those web searches and the alleged fight with Mom...)

If Casey was too delicate to handle bugs in a mouth, then no way she could dispose of the body or even, please, drive around with the stench, imo.

imo and moo.

[Peachallie]

I take it that you do not have a two year old? Or never had a two year old?

*************************************
Yes, I raised a two year old. And I'm a pretty small person (5'1", 110 lbs). There would be no need for duct tape had I intended to kill the child. For kidnapping, yes.

[lorettalockhorn]

Happy New Years Day to All! I was sorry not to post to you all before midnight to wish you guys a Happy night..hope you all ate like piggies and toasted with loved one and friends alike and had a great evening...(even if you were falling asleep like my husband, who we had to wake up!) All the Best for 2009! :eek:

All the hoopla about this video by Casey...bottom line, I think, it that he May have had priviledged info that he overheard and if so, Someone knew she was there. 100,300 or 600 yards doesn't make a bit of difference because the bag COULD have been back further, over further or Whatever. Realistically, there is no @#*$! accomplice, do we agree on that? Just like LE messed up on the Aug call, this video by Casey missed the mark possibly. Let the defense make of it what they want. Casey was the last peson to be with Caylee, and there is a a S*i*load of (albiet) circumstancial evidence for motive and means. Good Lord, whose child disappears and that night you rent (questionable) movies and hang out with your current lover...where's your daughter?
Why are you pole dancing, drinking and partying at Fusian 2 nites later? Where's your daughter?

Sigh.

Another thought would be how the chloroform administered? I believe Casey made like she was wiping her nose (so to speak) with the chloroformed 'rag/tissue'. They were probably in the back seat. With Caylee passed out, she taped her mouth either then or in the trunk, so that if she awoke she couldn't be heard. We know the rest. She had her in the trunk at least 3 days for the decomp to happen. On the 24th, George wanted that stuff out of the trunk, and Caylee was then moved to the wooded area before Casey got caught with her. That would have been 8 days. IF the bag had decomp we don't know, so the part of when the bag came into play is a big questionmark.

I think LE,and the DA has a who SLEW of stuff, and it's going to be something when this case starts rolling!

I'm hungry again..........ok...where's all that food you guys had...any leftovers? :beer: Hagnog for the new year!

BTW last night, a really nice woman I just met offered me a glass she said was HOMEMADE EGGNOG.........OMG I almost bust out laughing in her face !(remembering that post and cartoon from yesterday afternoon ) I said..."only Me!" :rolleyes:

That cartoon was disgustingly funny. :hat:

[Peachallie]

Logic is where the silencing theory comes from. If the info is accurate that there was tape over the mouth and chloroform in the trunk: Infants, let alone toddlers, are not quiet. "Tiny" does not take those little lungs into account-I am flinching from my 3 year old's volume as I type. I suspect that the tape was there to ensure silence in case Caylee woke up. No way a nearly 3 year old would wake in a trunk and silently wait for rescue. Hence, I believe, the tape. I'm one who suspects that it was "accidental", as much as drugging a child with homemade chloroform can be an accident (though I do wonder about those web searches and the alleged fight with Mom...)

If Casey was too delicate to handle bugs in a mouth, then no way she could dispose of the body or even, please, drive around with the stench, imo.

imo and moo.
***********************************
Actually, keeping bodily fluids in as you posted makes more sense. And the volume is irrelevant IF she killed her. Is the idea the duct tape was used to silence the child to take her to a certain place to kill her?

[Peachallie]

Peachallie
What is your theory about what happened in this case?
************************************
Aggravated manslaughter, crimes comitted after the death to escape prosecution.

[Gatordog]

ITA gator ~ Casey has Street smarts ~ which I believe gets you much more (than academically) with the people she deals with. It allows you to get over because it's really equal to being a con artist....and we all know a couple of people like that, don't we? (unfortunately)


Honest question gator...Do you really think you could be totally unbiased re; this jury duty stuff....I was wondering if I could be...I don't think I could, but that's just because I HATE THAT :cuss: god forgive me:o

Good question -Hard question. If I was questioned for the jury and the judge asked me if I could base my opinion strictly on what I heard in court I would probably say yes and add that it would be difficult to ignore what I would know to be fact if it wasn't presented. For instance if the judge would not permit the evidence from the body farm reports of decomp in the car and the defense said there was absolutely no proof of when Caylee died, I would find it very difficult to ignore knowledge that the smell was in the car in June.

I guess what I'm saying is that I could sit in judgement of Casey Anthony and not hold her personality against her, but I would find it difficult to not compare court presented evidence against "media evidence".

Gator

[javahog]

***********************************
Actually, keeping bodily fluids in as you posted makes more sense. And the volume is irrelevant IF she killed her. Is the idea the duct tape was used to silence the child to take her to a certain place to kill her?

:confused: I never posted that duct tape was used to hold in bodily fluids!

I agree that dead children make little noise. But did you read my post? I said that the tape was to silence her if she woke up in the trunk, imo. I repeat: I think chloroform and the trunk were the babysitter and it went real wrong. (I know others feel it was all premeditated, which I do not deny possible. I'm just going by what I see right now.).

all imo and moo based on what I have heard and read...

[FDInLaw]

:confused: I never posted that duct tape was used to hold in bodily fluids!

I agree that dead children make little noise. But did you read my post? I said that the tape was to silence her if she woke up in the trunk, imo. I repeat: I think chloroform and the trunk was a babysitter and it went real wrong. (I know others feel it was all premeditated, which I do not deny possible. I'm just going by what I see right now.).

all imo and moo based on what I have heard and read...From what we know so far, I'm in most agreement with your theory.




The venison roast was tasty BTW.

[Peachallie]

Wait! I thought the Sunshine Law forces The State to make disclosure. Is there a cutoff as the case nears a court date? If information is given to the public, how is that not considered giving information to the defense?
****************************************
Rule 3.220, F.R.Crim.P. governs discovery (some states use the term disclosure) in criminal cases. Both sides are under a CONTINUING obligation to supplement discovery after the Defendant first gives notice of the intent to participate. (The Defendant can hide their evidence only by not asking the state for theirs.) The Defendant asked for discovery October 15, 2008.

The state has 15 days to send the initial document(s), the Defendant then has 15 days to send reciprocal discovery. I've read of defendants trying to get around reciprocal discovery by sending public record requests under Chapter 119, but the rule says that also acts as a request & requires the defense to turn over what they have. Usually it is a list of the subparts of the rule with some documents attached.

The Sunshine Law applies to government records and anybody can request things pursuant thereto. BUT, a reasonable copying charge may be imposed. That is NOT SO WITH DISCOVERY in criminal cases, though requests for electronic evidence may require the other side to provide cd's/tapes, etc.

TECHNICALLY, information given to the public must be repeated in a document from one side to the other; I've been involved in cases though where one party says "We didn't send this because it is public record, we figured they had it already".


Discovery should either be complete by pretrial (that includes depos) or planned & near enough to completion to explain it to the court. Continuances are often needed to complete discovery, mainly depositions.


I'm gonna sum it up now, I swear: if you are gonna use it at trial, you gotta let the other side know. What THEY make of it ain't your problem.

[One2Snoop]

Caylee Anthony story: WFTV asks why the family's private investigators were looking in the spot where the remains were later found
posted by halboedeker on Dec 31, 2008 6:37:24 PM



The Caylee Anthony story continued to produce bizarre revelations to the end of 2008. Two stations updated the saga in their 6 p.m. newscasts Wednesday.

WFTV-Channel 9 explored speculation that the Anthony family knew where toddler Caylee's remains were before they were discovered. Kathi Belich wondered why the family's private detectives had focused only on the woods where a meter reader later found the remains.

WFTV legal analyst William Sheaffer asked, "What in the world was going on here that took these two investigators to that location and no other location, and lo and behold, that's where the body was?"

Belich explained inconsistencies in the two private eyes' stories. One, Jim Hoover, said he was told in November where Caylee's body was hidden, bounty hunter Leonard Padilla told WFTV. (It would have been great to hear from Hoover himself.) Who told Hoover? Private eye Dominic Casey, Padilla said.

But Dominic Casey told WFTV that the two men looked there to rule out a tip from a friend of Casey Anthony, Caylee's mother who is charged with her child's murder.

Belich's story certainly left you wanting to know more.

On WESH-Channel 2, attorney Brad Conway said his clients George and Cindy Anthony will turn over any evidence, even if it's damaging to daughter Casey's case. Conway told Bob Kealing that law enforcement did not find duct tape in the Anthonys' home. Duct tape was reportedly found on Caylee's skull. "We are expecting many more developments in the coming weeks," Kealing said in ending his report.

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2008/12/we-end-the-year.html

[javahog]

From what we know so far, I'm in most agreement with your theory.




The venison roast was tasty BTW.


:beer: the last time I ate venison was in honor of it being id'd as Oetzi the murdered Iceman's last meal...

[One2Snoop]

CNN Vinnie Politan - Prime News....
Talking about immunity deal.
http://i44.tinypic.com/m7dsfs.jpg

Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8Y_ZIU9ySM

Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bpMZehkB74

[One2Snoop]

Video we've never seen before?!! I'll believe it when I see it - LOL.....


Nancy Grace Investigates

Don't Miss:
Two documentary specials with video and interviews you've never seen!

Thursday, January 1st at 8 & 10 PM ET
What happened the first 24 hours Caylee was reported missing? Nancy Grace dissects the timeline.

Friday, January 2nd at 8 & 10 PM ET
What happened the first month Caylee went missing? Nancy Grace pieces together the story.

http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/nancy.grace/

[javahog]

Yes I was watching George too. He has a blinking problem and I noticed Casey seems to emulate him. She raises her eyebrows a lot and also makes her boredom with the questions obvious. Her voice inflections are hers alone though, me thinks. The best part is when she says yes and shakes her head no. I think a 10 year old would know she's lying. Again, I felt the parents were in a terrible vice and she had the turnkey. (AND she was enjoying it. She felt so damn important!) IMO

and she kept glancing to the left when, imo, lying. classic.