Caylee Anthony Case Discussion Only

[Gatordog]

http://www.myfoxorlando.com

Full recordings of Kronk's 911 calls. Kronk is the one who said he wasn't going any further into the woods because of a rattlesnake.

[Gatordog]

According to WESH.COM Orlando, Cssey's jail's policy is that anyone facing Capital one or LIP, is no way allowed out for furlough ie Caylee's funeral.

Casey Anthony will be enjoying roast beef and mashed taters for x mas, and yes. Presents! candy canes, cookies. socks and a pocket calendar , all courtesy of the chaplain, I believe.........Hope she enjoys it.

Nice.

So, no memorial for Caylee as of yet because of the 2nd autopsy; after that, the remains of Caylee will go to C & G...........

What a nice Christmas present from their wonderful daughter.:(

:cuss:

I'm glad she's getting a pocket calendar - now she'll know how many days she's going to be beind bars. I hope it's one of those perpetual calendars with no ending.

[Its just me]

I'm terribly behind in reading and I've been too busy for much TV so take this as from someone out of the loop right now. I wonder if it's possible for the defense tp try to use what Cindy tried to sell the FBI. (I think it's the first part of the taped interview with Cindy/FBI)
That Casey's friend Amy (the one Casey didn't take to Jacksonville to pick up her new car) Casey boyfriend she dumped for Tony and another person took Caylee. ?? (don't remember the name...may have been Jesse) Cindy tells the FBI about the EX going North to visit his mother blah blah. Cindy tried to made a good story out of it but it didn't fly with the FBI.

[lorettalockhorn]

If I remember correctly on the first Dr. Phil regarding this case, Dr. Phil stated that sociopaths usually break out or develope full blown in their late teens to early twenties.

Gator

It's been a while since abnormal psych, but that can be said of the onset or manifestation of many mental health issues.

[deputydi]

I don't think there was any break nor do I think she took drugs and it fried her brain. I think she is a sociopath and has always been one. It just took a while for it to manifest itself. Just like Bundy and the rest of these people, others think they are normal until they reveal their own particular brand of evil through a crime. Remember two of the signs of sociopaths are manipulation and superficial charm. Casey had these two qualities in triplicate. I was struck by how naive Jesse is. He admits she told him he was the father , yet he knew that she was too pregnant for it to be his baby, so while he could add, it did not occur to him that this girl routinely lied when she felt it benefitted her. People do that, because humans are basically good, they want to believe the best. And so when she lied,it was one lie, not a behavor pattern, but he has since learned. Here are a list of the other traits of sociopaths by the man who first defined them years and years ago, Dr Robert Hare, "manipulation, superficial charm, pathological lying, shallow emotions, impulsive nature, glibness, grandiose sense of self, lack of remorse, shame or guilt, lack of empathy, early behavioral problems and irresponsibliity. Two others are promiscious sexual behavior and lack of realistic life plan. Casey had all these in spades for years but because of the charm , the way she manipulated , the pathological lying which nobody seemed to call her on, she was able to fool a lot of people. I think we are looking for one single event, or several or drugs to excuse her, like one day she had none of these traits and the next day she did and that is not the way it works for sociopaths, the biggest trait they have is that they are very successful in being able to parrot normal behavior and boy could she do that. Remember her own mother defined her to a friend as a sociopath and Cindy has known her a while.
Wonderful post. It's amazing how your posts mirror what I'm thinking as I'm trying to get caught up.

I keep going back in my mind to Scott P and I apologize. He didn't have any psychotic break and prior to murdering Laci, he had been described as personable, a devoted husband, and excited about becoming a father. He decided he wanted a different lifestyle so he murdered his wife. Sound a little familiar? These two sociopathic personalities are so much alike it's scary.

[Peachallie]

no:Discovery has just begun, not one minute of trial has occurred, yet many posters seem as though they are ready to sentence Casey Anthony. STRANGE. Nothing released ties the defendant to the remains (YET) and the prosecution has a long way to go to prove even agg. manslaughter.*


*The prosecution does have enough to bind her over for trial, but with the public prematurally convinced of her guilt, she'll have appeal issues for a long time; IF convicted of course.

[Peachallie]

Anthony had alienated most of her good time buddies, appears to have few friends, and some of her crowd are basking in the media exposure already. Nothing about her suggests the kind cunning Bundy evidenced. Upon what facts can a DIAGNOSIS of "sociopath" be made at this point? Casey can be the ***** of Babylon & still be blameless in her daughter's death.*


*The evidence to convict of POST death crimes is much stronger.

[One2Snoop]

no:Discovery has just begun, not one minute of trial has occurred, yet many posters seem as though they are ready to sentence Casey Anthony. STRANGE. Nothing released ties the defendant to the remains (YET) and the prosecution has a long way to go to prove even agg. manslaughter.*


*The prosecution does have enough to bind her over for trial, but with the public prematurally convinced of her guilt, she'll have appeal issues for a long time; IF convicted of course.

Not sure why its strange - its just our opinions LOL which everyone's entitled to. I believe the prosecution has more than enough to hang Casey - JMO of course. :D

Welcome to CL. :seeya:

[lorettalockhorn]

no:Discovery has just begun, not one minute of trial has occurred, yet many posters seem as though they are ready to sentence Casey Anthony. STRANGE. Nothing released ties the defendant to the remains (YET) and the prosecution has a long way to go to prove even agg. manslaughter.*


*The prosecution does have enough to bind her over for trial, but with the public prematurally convinced of her guilt, she'll have appeal issues for a long time; IF convicted of course.

That we know of. Yet.

Many of us have different theories. Jump in!

[browneyes106]

Don't you all think it's kinda strange and (in)convenient that the man who Casey claims is the father of Caylee, dies on his way to Caylee's birthday party??
I know many agree Caylee seems to be his , but after seeing him on his My Space page, I don't think so. I believe Casey would have applied for his SS if it were. I don't think she knows WHO it was, and using that excuse for her family shut them up, never to have questions about it again (so she thought). Does he not have a mom and dad? Maybe siblings? Yep, the LE would love to have a father to connect this case, but that is not going to happen....and WTH did Cindy not make it her business to find his family? Bet she didn't.

At trial, it would not suprise me if Baez claims she was raped and that is why there is 'no' father, and why C & G were vague whenever asked about it. Maybe he could even use it as a basis on why her old acquanitances claim the Casey they knew isn't the Casey everyone's been seeing for the past couple of years, and why she has psychological or emotional problems. Defense lawyers have and WILL use anything..we learned that from OJ and Scott P..........

Baez himself will use everything in the kitchen sink, but if he's going to cry the LE is inept, he'd better explain how the garbage bag they 'messed' up on was taken from next to the street to over 100 yard into the lot.

Hmmm?

So, you didn't like my Italian lesson?:shrug:

Didn't Jesus die months before Caylee's birthday?? Of course, just because dying on the way to the party was a lie doesn't mean that him being the father was a lie. It's hard to tell with these prevaricators; George specifically said that Caylee's father had never been a part of her life. So why would he have been coming to her party anyway?

The lesson was great!!! Amo tutte le cose italiano!!!!

But you forgot Casey's anthem:

È tutto di me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There is another deceased man named Eric Baker who Cindy and Casey said was Caylee's father.http://cayleeanthony.wordpress.com/2008/11/06/casey-anthony-told-dcf-workers/

[lorettalockhorn]

RE: The 911 calls. I listen to my scanner relatively frequently, and have talked to dispatch (less frequently), and I am so impressed with the training that my guys have, their professional demeanor, and their knowledge of the county with or without a map.

[lorettalockhorn]

There is another deceased man named Eric Baker who Cindy and Casey said was Caylee's father.http://cayleeanthony.wordpress.com/2008/11/06/casey-anthony-told-dcf-workers/

I remember that his name has been mentioned, but don't remember which Anthony pegged him as Caylee's father other than Casey. Was thinking that it was Cindy.

[browneyes106]

I remember that his name has been mentioned, but don't remember which Anthony pegged him as Caylee's father other than Casey. Was thinking that it was Cindy.

I think Cindy mentioned it one of her interviews.

[browneyes106]

According to WESH.COM Orlando, Cssey's jail's policy is that anyone facing Capital one or LIP, is no way allowed out for furlough ie Caylee's funeral.

Casey Anthony will be enjoying roast beef and mashed taters for x mas, and yes. Presents! candy canes, cookies. socks and a pocket calendar , all courtesy of the chaplain, I believe.........Hope she enjoys it.

Nice.

So, no memorial for Caylee as of yet because of the 2nd autopsy; after that, the remains of Caylee will go to C & G...........

What a nice Christmas present from their wonderful daughter.:(

:cuss:

Maybe the roast beef will mystery meat. Too bad Casey isn't locked up at the Maricopa Jail in Phoenix where Sheriff Arapaio feeds the inmates green oxidized balony sandwiches.

[Peachallie]

Casey Anthony can certainly be tied to her daughter's disappearance; she had a duty to KNOW what was happening. None of her excuses are believable but being a dirtbag does not convict one of murder. There remains the possibility that she had nothing to do with her daughter's death AND isn't sorry it occurred.


(My PERSONAL view is that the death was either accidental and/or the result of culpable negligence; still, that puts her away for 30 years possibly. There are also the other charges to pile on the years should Anthony NOT be convicted of 1st or 2nd degree homicide. The jury may have a menu of options.)

[POE-33]

no:Discovery has just begun, not one minute of trial has occurred, yet many posters seem as though they are ready to sentence Casey Anthony. STRANGE. Nothing released ties the defendant to the remains (YET) and the prosecution has a long way to go to prove even agg. manslaughter.*


*The prosecution does have enough to bind her over for trial, but with the public prematurally convinced of her guilt, she'll have appeal issues for a long time; IF convicted of course.

Peach,
You say that the procecution doesn't have enough evidence to bind Casey over for trial yet in fact, she has been bound over for trial. A Grand Jury indicted her.

1. Caylee is dead.
2. Casey was the last person with Caylee before her death.
3. We can rule out suicide.
3. We can rule out natural causes. Caylee didn't die of a heart attack.
4. Evidence of human decomposition was found in the trunk of the car.
5. The last person in possession of the car was Casey.
6. Casey lied to Law Enforcement about the whereabouts of Caylee.
7. Caylee's body was found in close proximity to the Anthony home.

What's your theory of how Caylee died and her body ended up a quarter of a mile from the Anthony home? Do you have a theory that passes the giggle test?
:hat:

[lorettalockhorn]

LOL at NG telling her unleashed lawyers that she will give them the commercial break to answer her question about how Casey's sunglasses tie to the crime scene. It's soooooo like My Evil Grandmother telling me to sit in the blue chair until I straighten up and fly right. I'm going to borrow Casey's Christmas calendar and figure out Nancy's cycle so I'll know when it's safe to watch. She's battering Natisha tonight to about the comments that Cindy emotionally abused Casey. Not trying to pick up anyone's cross here, but having Caylee call her Momma wasn't exactly conducive to a healthy hierarchy in that household. And we've seen how Cindy handles herself in public with a camera in her face; can you imagine what she's like behind closed doors?? She could probably give fishwife lessons.

[Lodi]

On his third call in August, the meter reader told the 911 dispatcher that there is something round and white under a tree in the woods. Something that definitely looks like it shouldn't be in the woods. He seemed urgent to convince them it was important. I have the thought that he saw Caylee's skull but wasn't certain that it wasn't a doll's head. He went back this month and took a closer look.

[mu8shark]

Casey Anthony can certainly be tied to her daughter's disappearance; she had a duty to KNOW what was happening. None of her excuses are believable but being a dirtbag does not convict one of murder. There remains the possibility that she had nothing to do with her daughter's death AND isn't sorry it occurred.


(My PERSONAL view is that the death was either accidental and/or the result of culpable negligence; still, that puts her away for 30 years possibly. There are also the other charges to pile on the years should Anthony NOT be convicted of 1st or 2nd degree homicide. The jury may have a menu of options.) The fact is if she accidentally chloroformed her to death as a means of babysitting her, it is called Felony murder and if she is convicted of Felony murder she can be eligible for the death penalty or life in prison. Because it is illegal to drug your child and throw her in the trunk as a means of babysitting and therefore this is the felony it is not the same as just being a little negligent or say an accident where your child falls down the stairs or drowns . I appreciate your viewpoint but the charge of felony murder can be proven even if the theory is she accidentally chloroformed her. So I am assuming the internet searches for how to make chloroform, the search terms inhalation and death, and neck breaking don't resonate with you or you think someone else did those searches. Also it is somewhat coincidental that while she did a search, her trunk was saturated with chloroform. And it is not from cleaning products as an expert has already said that for that quantity it was impossible. So how do you explain that? If you look at this case and Scott Peterson, he was convicted on much less, Laci's hair was not found in his trunk with a death band on it,a legion of people did not offer up that Scotts car or truck smelled like a dead body. She is going to have to link someone else up with that car and prove Caylee was in the care of someone else or she is going down. I think it is that simple.

[lorettalockhorn]

Once again, Cindy talking out of the side of her mouth ~ he was 18 when he died in '07...15 when Casey knew him in school - a special friend, ok., but Caylee's dad?
That Cindy, grasping at straws ~ pizza in the bag, Eric Baker..whatever.

It's a privelege to know someone who turns such a ladylike phrase. Cindy brings out my fpotty mouth. To be honest, I'd like to see her MMPI too.

[Amy]

I wonder how she is coping with no partying, no sex, no beer, no friends. Im
sure she is delighted just to be in her "Casey" world but this is what brought her down so low that she took--killed her daughter away just for those few things. (sorry-she just gets on my nerves) jmo

PS Drew Peterson is a wolf in a sheepskin outfit. I hear he has a new girlfriend -I think if I was her I would be worried I might be his next victim. I read her dad is trying to steer her away from him. She is only 23 I think. (JMO)

Don't forget that loss which probably gets her the most--no text messaging!!!! No cell phone. My goodness, I didn't think there were enough hours in the day to accommodate the amount of time she was doing either of these activities!!!!

[mu8shark]

LOL at NG telling her unleashed lawyers that she will give them the commercial break to answer her question about how Casey's sunglasses tie to the crime scene. It's soooooo like My Evil Grandmother telling me to sit in the blue chair until I straighten up and fly right. I'm going to borrow Casey's Christmas calendar and figure out Nancy's cycle so I'll know when it's safe to watch. She's battering Natisha tonight to about the comments that Cindy emotionally abused Casey. Not trying to pick up anyone's cross here, but having Caylee call her Momma wasn't exactly conducive to a healthy hierarchy in that household. And we've seen how Cindy handles herself in public with a camera in her face; can you imagine what she's like behind closed doors?? She could probably give fishwife lessons. LOL, what in the hell gets into her? Some nights she is as sweet as pie or at least reasonable and other nights she attacks everything that speaks. It does seem somewhat cyclical. LOL. It is hard to explain isn't it? As for poor Natisha, it would be nice if Nancy let her speak before she jumped down her throat.

[Amy]

I think there was a break, but what caused it...I had a neighbor who fried himself on drugs. Had been perfectly normal. When he had episodes, he thought Moses was telling him to kill us all (delightful, btw:chicken:). So he had a psychotic break, but it was from the drugs. So they are not mutually exclusive. But she was clearly more in control than my neighbor was, since she is coherent, yet makes no sense. But how odd is it to actually go to Universal knowing there is no way you are not going to be outed??? That is one of the oddest moves I've ever heard.

all imos...

And just if odd, if not odder, after they have been to Universal and she admits no job, no office, when they are in the interview w/her, she goes right back to talking about her job, her other phone. @ one point on of the detectives reminds her she admitted it was all a lie. Yeah, I know and blah blah blah.....just goes right on!!!!

[mu8shark]

Once again, Cindy talking out of the side of her mouth ~ he was 18 when he died in '07...15 when Casey knew him in school - a special friend, ok., but Caylee's dad?
That Cindy, grasping at straws ~ pizza in the bag, Eric Baker..whatever. I could swear when Cindy testified at the bond hearing she said she thought Jesse was the father. So Cindy kind of changes stories to suit the situation , sound familiar? And I am going to go out on a limb here and say Casey is such a W H O R E. (There I said it) she has no idea who the father is. Also after seeing the escort searches and hearing about these 1200 photos George talked about that he said he was shocked at and put his daughter in a different light, I just wonder if Casey was not messing around , to put it nicely, with a lot of men for money and favors. I am not saying somebody else did not do those escort searches, George or Lee, but it is possible Casey was looking for a job as well.

[Amy]

Maybe it was a backwards admission that the father is truly unknown. I find 2 things very hard to believe, though: 1) that Cindy would not have demanded to know who it was and 2) that LE isn't REAL interested in the identity. Also, if Jesse Grund was being fingered as a possible culprit, you'd think the biodad would also be "good" for it in their minds too, imo. I'll be shocked if the id doesn't come out. If it doesn't, I'll believe no one has a clue...poor kid, Caylee's life would have had a chance if Jesse Grund was her dad, I think.

I'm guessing no one is counting back on his fingers to see if he might have had sex around the time Caylee would have been conceived. Especially if we are talking party guys, one night stands, etc....seems that, by reports, she wasn't exactly on one-guy-gal? I'm betting even SHE has no clue. The couple of stories I remember reading about the guy who died, seemed concocted. I wonder if Cindy even checked into the guy in the obit Casey showed her? Probably not, cuz I don't think Cindy was really wanting to share Caylee with "in-laws."

Anyway, IF Caylee's bio dad is still living, he might very well have never been told of Casey's pregnancy where he might be the dad. How can he step forward? And, if he is someone who had no idea of her existence, there is no reason to suspect him in any foul play in Caylee's death.

[mu8shark]

Peach,
You say that the procecution doesn't have enough evidence to bind Casey over for trial yet in fact, she has been bound over for trial. A Grand Jury indicted her.

1. Caylee is dead.
2. Casey was the last person with Caylee before her death.
3. We can rule out suicide.
3. We can rule out natural causes. Caylee didn't die of a heart attack.
4. Evidence of human decomposition was found in the trunk of the car.
5. The last person in possession of the car was Casey.
6. Casey lied to Law Enforcement about the whereabouts of Caylee.
7. Caylee's body was found in close proximity to the Anthony home.

What's your theory of how Caylee died and her body ended up a quarter of a mile from the Anthony home? Do you have a theory that passes the giggle test?
:hat: Great post! And to add to that the internet searches where she seems somewhat obsessed with death and chloroform and add to that she did not report her daughter for 30 days, and she would probably had held out longer if Cindy did not force her hand. It is interesting that on Greta last night a whopping 2 per cent of people think she is innocent. Maybe because the others who think likewise are following the trail of evidence and barring the magic nanny theory, all the evidence points to Casey.

[mu8shark]

I'm guessing no one is counting back on his fingers to see if he might have had sex around the time Caylee would have been conceived. Especially if we are talking party guys, one night stands, etc....seems that, by reports, she wasn't exactly on one-guy-gal? I'm betting even SHE has no clue. The couple of stories I remember reading about the guy who died, seemed concocted. I wonder if Cindy even checked into the guy in the obit Casey showed her? Probably not, cuz I don't think Cindy was really wanting to share Caylee with "in-laws."

Anyway, IF Caylee's bio dad is still living, he might very well have never been told of Casey's pregnancy where he might be the dad. How can he step forward? And, if he is someone who had no idea of her existence, there is no reason to suspect him in any foul play in Caylee's death. Think of how convenient that is that the dad is dead?? If they want the father out of the picture they just claim he is dead. I think that is too convenient and I agree CIndy did not want to share Caylee with another family. She is too controlling for that.

[mu8shark]

Don't forget that loss which probably gets her the most--no text messaging!!!! No cell phone. My goodness, I didn't think there were enough hours in the day to accommodate the amount of time she was doing either of these activities!!!! By the way, I agree with the defense lawyer that jail has to be awful for her. I have zero sympathy for her understand, but I don't care what you are ordering to eat or what she is reading, she is not living it up. They tell her when to go to bed, when to eat meals, essentially she can read what the County jail has on hand, . She has no freedom, no parties, no sex which probably is her lifeblood, no texts, no phone, no internet chats with friends, no shopping, no movies. nothing. It is almost better if she gets life. This girl wanted her freedom and now look at her!

[mu8shark]

Seems like she was acting out all the behaviors of one who went on drugs. The symptoms are clear to me.. IMO Casey was mind altered. Well so far all they say is she was smoking a lot of pot, and she used Xanax. I do not think this makes you change your entire belief system or makes you kill someone. I respectfully disagree . She is a sociopath who does drugs, big difference.

[mu8shark]

Peach,
You say that the procecution doesn't have enough evidence to bind Casey over for trial yet in fact, she has been bound over for trial. A Grand Jury indicted her.

1. Caylee is dead.
2. Casey was the last person with Caylee before her death.
3. We can rule out suicide.
3. We can rule out natural causes. Caylee didn't die of a heart attack.
4. Evidence of human decomposition was found in the trunk of the car.
5. The last person in possession of the car was Casey.
6. Casey lied to Law Enforcement about the whereabouts of Caylee.
7. Caylee's body was found in close proximity to the Anthony home.

What's your theory of how Caylee died and her body ended up a quarter of a mile from the Anthony home? Do you have a theory that passes the giggle test?
:hat:
Peach, Just one more thing on that legal theory that because a lot of the public thinks you are guilty so therefore you will win lots of appeals, not so, you have to prove juror misconduct or that you had a juror who went in predisposed to convict and appeals are not common at all. This is very hard to prove . There are of course other reasons for appeals but there is no appeal based on gee lots of people in the public were against you, bingo new trial. . It does not work that way. There is no legal basis for that. They will of course try to get a change of venue because of the publicity .

[mu8shark]

On his third call in August, the meter reader told the 911 dispatcher that there is something round and white under a tree in the woods. Something that definitely looks like it shouldn't be in the woods. He seemed urgent to convince them it was important. I have the thought that he saw Caylee's skull but wasn't certain that it wasn't a doll's head. He went back this month and took a closer look.
I don't think he thought it was a skull, maybe what he saw was just suspicious to him and he had that hinky feeling that people get. After listening to the 911 calls , you can tell that what Fuhrman said on Greta last night was true, it was a low priority call and there are two ways to look at that, LE should have been more on the ball or realistically with all these tips and places to look, this particular place did not merit a great deal of interest.

[mu8shark]

Wonderful post. It's amazing how your posts mirror what I'm thinking as I'm trying to get caught up.

I keep going back in my mind to Scott P and I apologize. He didn't have any psychotic break and prior to murdering Laci, he had been described as personable, a devoted husband, and excited about becoming a father. He decided he wanted a different lifestyle so he murdered his wife. Sound a little familiar? These two sociopathic personalities are so much alike it's scary. I missed ya Deputy! Yes Scott was described as all of those things. The thing about a sociopath is they always come first, always , no matter what.

[POE-33]

I was originally leaning toward the accidental death theory, but after watching Jesse Grund and his father's interview last night, I'm leaning toward deliberate murder.

I don't buy the two Caseys theory. She is a sociopath and people don't turn into sociopaths at age 22. Sociopaths begin to exibit abnormal behavior in their early teens.

Casey was already about six weeks pregnant when she began dating Jesse Grund. She was looking for a daddy for her baby. She sized up Jesse and his family as good-hearted people who she could con into believing that Caylee was Jesse's baby. She put on an act of being a loving mother in an effort to unload Caylee on the Grunds.

When that didn't work and Jesse didn't adopt Caylee, Casey was stuck with a baby that she didn't want and her new boyfriend didn't want children.
Cindy and George wouldn't let Casey dump the child on them while she ran around and partied. Caylee was an inconvenient burden to Casey. Caylee didn't fit into her lifestyle. Casey had to get rid of Caylee.
:flamemad:

[Lodi]

I don't think he thought it was a skull, maybe what he saw was just suspicious to him and he had that hinky feeling that people get. After listening to the 911 calls , you can tell that what Fuhrman said on Greta last night was true, it was a low priority call and there are two ways to look at that, LE should have been more on the ball or realistically with all these tips and places to look, this particular place did not merit a great deal of interest.

It's not important what he thought I suppose but he said there was a tree that appeared to be sawed into and beneath it was something round and white that didn't look like it belonged. To me it sounds as if he got near it but became too spooked to look close enough definitely identify it. He also wanted to be assured he would stay anonymous because he didn't want to lose his job if it turned out to be a body.

[mu8shark]

I was originally leaning toward the accidental death theory, but after watching Jesse Grund and his father's interview last night, I'm leaning toward deliberate murder.

I don't buy the two Caseys theory. She is a sociopath and people don't turn into sociopaths at age 22. Sociopaths begin to exibit abnormal behavior in their early teens.

Casey was already about six weeks pregnant when she began dating Jesse Grund. She was looking for a daddy for her baby. She sized up Jesse and his family as good-hearted people who she could con into believing that Caylee was Jesse's baby. She put on an act of being a loving mother in an effort to unload Caylee on the Grunds.

When that didn't work and Jesse didn't adopt Caylee, Casey was stuck with a baby that she didn't want and her new boyfriend didn't want children.
Cindy and George wouldn't let Casey dump the child on them while she ran around and partied. Caylee was an inconvenient burden to Casey. Caylee didn't fit into her lifestyle. Casey had to get rid of Caylee.
:flamemad:
I totally agree with your entire post. . I bet if you go back you will see in her teens evidence of sociopathy and the operative word you used is she acted. Her sociopathic tendencies probably did not become as obvious until this crime but I think it was there all along. She was just a good actress to get what was good for Casey.

[mu8shark]

It's not important what he thought I suppose but he said there was a tree that appeared to be sawed into and beneath it was something round and white that didn't look like it belonged. To me it sounds as if he got near it but became too spooked to look close enough definitely identify it. He also wanted to be assured he would stay anonymous because he didn't want to lose his job if it turned out to be a body. It is a possibility he was wondering"Is that a skull?" It could be. Although I have never heard of anyone getting fired for finding a dead body. Whatever the case, LE missed it fair and square and once his route was changed and the hurricane came, he probably blew it off until he got reassigned and could not help but be curious the bag was still there after all this time.

[beachbum]

I was reading on another board that the name of Caylee's book was Suppertime with Freida Fuzzypaws. She seemed to be acting like she was reading it from the video. It just gets to me when I watch it. Its Christmas you guys, she should have been getting ready to enjoy it with her family but no, all because of her selfish mother. I suggest we get Casey an advent prison calender so she can open a door for each day for the rest of her life, cause she aint coming out. Lets hope. (jmo)

[lorettalockhorn]

I'm guessing no one is counting back on his fingers to see if he might have had sex around the time Caylee would have been conceived. Especially if we are talking party guys, one night stands, etc....seems that, by reports, she wasn't exactly on one-guy-gal? I'm betting even SHE has no clue. The couple of stories I remember reading about the guy who died, seemed concocted. I wonder if Cindy even checked into the guy in the obit Casey showed her? Probably not, cuz I don't think Cindy was really wanting to share Caylee with "in-laws."

Anyway, IF Caylee's bio dad is still living, he might very well have never been told of Casey's pregnancy where he might be the dad. How can he step forward? And, if he is someone who had no idea of her existence, there is no reason to suspect him in any foul play in Caylee's death.

Casey's fugly mug has been plastered all over the media, and there could be any number of guys who did count backwards and had the light bulb come on over their heads. BUT knowing that they would need an attorney (like everyone else in this case seems to need) can you blame him for not coming forward? That said, if Caylee's father can be determined, he should be notified and decide if he wants to come forward (privately or publicly). Just my opinion.

[lorettalockhorn]

Isn't it odd, that jesse claimed there were 2 Casey's? Seems to me that her lies began before she had Caylee. She hid the pregnancy for 7 moths, to start with and then she names several fathers, including him. So he was blindly in love with her and didn't notice that he was projecting.

All true, but I can't help but understand why Casey would want to hide her pregnancy from Cindy.

[lorettalockhorn]

It's so sweet of you Loretta darlin, when you ftalk out of the side of Your mouth too ~ especially when you know how much I enjoy a good
EXPLETIVE :cuss:[SIZE="2"]
HaaaHaaaaaaaaa:cuss:

[SIZE="3"]@#%&!:cuss:

I'm humbled to be in your fcompany! :biggrin:

Fthank you! http://i42.tinypic.com/jzw8qa.gif

For obvious reasons, Caylee's wake and funeral will cost less than the usual.
I'd not be surprised if the Funeral Parlor charged nothing at all. If they can live in a house like they do, they can afford a few thousand dollars. If they have family and friends, they can raise the amount they need. This stuff is worthy of question. They should have been to the bank by now to gain a line of credit on their house or cars. They can't get out of their own way, for God's sake, why can't they Do SOMETHING for that child without turning it into a soap opera.

Yes.

[POE-33]

I don't think he thought it was a skull, maybe what he saw was just suspicious to him and he had that hinky feeling that people get. After listening to the 911 calls , you can tell that what Fuhrman said on Greta last night was true, it was a low priority call and there are two ways to look at that, LE should have been more on the ball or realistically with all these tips and places to look, this particular place did not merit a great deal of interest.

Remember how Geraldo was screeching and angrily demanding that the Orange County Sheriff's Office release the tapes of the meter readers calls?

Now that they have released the tapes, I wonder if Geraldo will credit them for their openess and demand that his buddy Baez present the evidence that he claims he has that Caylee was kidnapped.
:rolleyes:

[lighthousedazy]

Isn't it odd, that jesse claimed there were 2 Casey's? Seems to me that her lies began before she had Caylee. She hid the pregnancy for 7 moths, to start with and then she names several fathers, including him. So he was blindly in love with her and didn't notice that he was projecting.I believe that Jesse is a good guy and naive a bit but couldn't see the devil in caysee as we see now. As they say "love is blind". jmo Also as the psych said, these personality disorders don't usually show up til the late teens or early 20's. One of my teachers also said that the personality is not fully developed until age 24. Don't know if that is true, jmo. ;)

[Justice Denied?]

Well your a better man than me! If I knew she was innocent I would still want to know why she's in jail. And if I knew she was guilty I would mark her absent.

I believe the reason they don't go see her in jail is, She doesn't want to see them. They ask too many damn questions and she's tired of them.

I don't know how good I am, but I have always told my children that nothing they did could make me stop loving them. My love for them is unconditional.

However I have to admit with Casey it would be very difficult. I believe if she was innocent, she wouldn't be locked up in the first place because she wouldn't have told all the lies. I believe she is guilty. I think she should tell the truth and face the consequences, but that will never happen.

The psychiatrist on NG tonight said they believe the story they are telling at the time they are telling it. That is Casey for sure.

It might be that I might have to love my daughter from a distance. I can't say for sure, never having been thru anything like this.

[mu8shark]

Well they had the tatoo artist on Greta and really the only thing he had to offer was another lie she told, that the reason she had her friends car was to pick her up from the airport because her own car would not hold her friends luggage. At first I said to myself well but of course her trunk stank but then I remembered her car was probably sitting at the tow yard by then. So he did not have much to offer really.

[lorettalockhorn]

What if: She knows who the father is and he's married or related to her and at least has her well warned to keep her mouth shut. What if: He paid her well to keep it shut?

Isn't one of The Possibles married according to one of the Anthonys? If he paid her, it wasn't enough because she still stole all those thousands. It's hard for me to consider anyone who wears a $5 bra high maintenance.

What the heck did she spend all that money on?

[mu8shark]

Remember how Geraldo was screeching and angrily demanding that the Orange County Sheriff's Office release the tapes of the meter readers calls?

Now that they have released the tapes, I wonder if Geraldo will credit them for their openess and demand that his buddy Baez present the evidence that he claims he has that Caylee was kidnapped.
:rolleyes: It is so crazy that Geraldo is trying to make such drama about this, one thing LE has really been smart about is that they did not try to hide the facts about this meter reader. They almost immediately released the info he had called three times and probably as soon as they found the calls they released those . So now what will Geraldo sensationalize?

[mu8shark]

Isn't one of The Possibles married according to one of the Anthonys? If he paid her, it wasn't enough because she still stole all those thousands. It's hard for me to consider anyone who wears a $5 bra high maintenance.

What the heck did she spend all that money on? Yeah, I think she just is not sure who he is or if she is, she doesn't like him anymore and she and Cindy decided to shut him out of little Caylees life. Thus, the dead guy scenario. If she has money from any source, it does not show.

[mu8shark]

Well I am off to bed and want to wish everyone on here a safe and happy holiday. Will catch on the other side of Dec 25. :seeya:

[Amy]

So can The State order psychological testing? Do they want to, or would that somehow excuse Casey's behavior? If the defense has her tested, won't the results be part of discovery?

hehehe We should have a pool as to what the results of an MMPI would look like.



Totally agree. Can't believe he hasn't done it already.

Remember from way back when, @ the first of the case, one of the stipulations of Casey getting out on bail was that she was to have a psychological examination. Now, I don't remember how much time elapsed between the time Leonard Padilla made known his intentions to bring about the bail and the time she got out---but, DID she have that exam? Was there some kind of deal made, and that stipulation removed? I wasn't getting to the computer much @ the time she was first bailed, and never saw a mention of the exam, and have always wondered if in fact it ever took place.

[lighthousedazy]

Isn't one of The Possibles married according to one of the Anthonys? If he paid her, it wasn't enough because she still stole all those thousands. It's hard for me to consider anyone who wears a $5 bra high maintenance.

What the heck did she spend all that money on?

I didn't know one of the possibles was married. I guessed it. If she did know the father she kept it a secret. There is only one thing I know that costs exorbitant amounts of money and that's drugs. Every one in the world knows at least ONE drug addict and what most people do not know ( I didn't) is that they can go through a thousand dollars per week, hands down for drugs,,, OR more. And we know she didn't have a night job.

TO answer your thought about why she hid the pregnancy from Cindy, I believe she was just lying because it gets her excited. Her relationship with Cindy was horrid...Danagher, love your reason to edit note. :D The first thing we think of is drugs when someone steals. I know someone who is a sociopath and path liar, but she would never hurt another human being. She had to support her loser husband and they had to have it all 'right now'. She spent money bailing her husband out of debt, and they wanted the best in home decor, cars, fashion, and high end stuff, not Walmart. That wasn't good enough. :( jmo

[lighthousedazy]

Wishing you all a Merry Christmas to my friends on the Caylee board and also all my friends on the Tara Grinstead board. May all these sad cases of the missing be solved. :rose:

[Amy]

I've had a few thoughts about this - perhaps Cindy thought Jesse was the father until the DNA test proved otherwise a few months after the birth. By then, Cindy thought of the child as her own and thought it best not to have to share her with another family. Eve if theybthought it was true that her father had died, you would think that they would have told the Liar to apply for SS unless they really didn't believe that line of BS.

Now that I'm off medication, I can join in on the haterade! Just broke open someone's Christmas gift and enoying it now. Good thing I buy extra presents. :tongue:

Gator

If Cindy didn't want to share Caylee w/another family, she still would not have insisted Casey apply for SS--because that would give the other grandparents an opening to be in her life. IMO

[Amy]

no:Discovery has just begun, not one minute of trial has occurred, yet many posters seem as though they are ready to sentence Casey Anthony. STRANGE. Nothing released ties the defendant to the remains (YET) and the prosecution has a long way to go to prove even agg. manslaughter.*


*The prosecution does have enough to bind her over for trial, but with the public prematurally convinced of her guilt, she'll have appeal issues for a long time; IF convicted of course.

Perhaps nothing RELEASED has tied the defendant to the remains (YET) but, whatever LE/DA has, it is enough to bind her over for trial on FIRST DEGREE (in fact, CAPITAL) murder charges. I don't think the DA takes his job so lightly that he would do that unless he had enough evidence to do so. IMO

[Amy]

By the way, I agree with the defense lawyer that jail has to be awful for her. I have zero sympathy for her understand, but I don't care what you are ordering to eat or what she is reading, she is not living it up. They tell her when to go to bed, when to eat meals, essentially she can read what the County jail has on hand, . She has no freedom, no parties, no sex which probably is her lifeblood, no texts, no phone, no internet chats with friends, no shopping, no movies. nothing. It is almost better if she gets life. This girl wanted her freedom and now look at her!

So, the defense lawyer says jail has to be awful for her--well, whaaaa, whaaaa, whaaaa!!!!! What? Does he (if it is Baez) think that things should be different for HIS client, or, should I say THIS client? I think jail is not a pretty proposition for most inmates, nor should it be. And it shouldn't be any different for his client than for any other inmate. IMO

[Amy]

I don't think he thought it was a skull, maybe what he saw was just suspicious to him and he had that hinky feeling that people get. After listening to the 911 calls , you can tell that what Fuhrman said on Greta last night was true, it was a low priority call and there are two ways to look at that, LE should have been more on the ball or realistically with all these tips and places to look, this particular place did not merit a great deal of interest.

I don't think he saw a skull, either. Because it was reported that he "kicked" the bag and a skull fell out. If he had seen the skull, I'm doubting that he would have had to kick the bag. IMO

[lorettalockhorn]

Remember from way back when, @ the first of the case, one of the stipulations of Casey getting out on bail was that she was to have a psychological examination. Now, I don't remember how much time elapsed between the time Leonard Padilla made known his intentions to bring about the bail and the time she got out---but, DID she have that exam? Was there some kind of deal made, and that stipulation removed? I wasn't getting to the computer much @ the time she was first bailed, and never saw a mention of the exam, and have always wondered if in fact it ever took place.

Thanks for the reminder! Those results were sealed:

Eyewitness News learned the results of Casey's psychological evaluation were turned over to the Fifth District Court of Appeals and they were the ones who ruled Wednesday afternoon that she would not get another bond hearing. The results of that evaluation are sealed.

http://www.wftv.com/news/17047526/detail.html

If Cindy didn't want to share Caylee w/another family, she still would not have insisted Casey apply for SS--because that would give the other grandparents an opening to be in her life. IMO

I don't see the Anthonys sharing Caylee with anyone, including Casey, no matter the cost.

[Amy]

Well your a better man than me! If I knew she was innocent I would still want to know why she's in jail. And if I knew she was guilty I would mark her absent.

I believe the reason they don't go see her in jail is, She doesn't want to see them. They ask too many damn questions and she's tired of them.

I agree that the reason there are no visits is because Casey refuses them. I think she feels she got most of her info across to her parents in that one visit, and no need to take a chance that they might spill some beans in any subsequent visit. You can see how they were choosing their wording, almost talking in code. That must take a great deal of effort and thinking to try to "say" things to each other without saying anything people watching the visit might pick up on.

[Amy]

I was originally leaning toward the accidental death theory, but after watching Jesse Grund and his father's interview last night, I'm leaning toward deliberate murder.

I don't buy the two Caseys theory. She is a sociopath and people don't turn into sociopaths at age 22. Sociopaths begin to exibit abnormal behavior in their early teens.

Casey was already about six weeks pregnant when she began dating Jesse Grund. She was looking for a daddy for her baby. She sized up Jesse and his family as good-hearted people who she could con into believing that Caylee was Jesse's baby. She put on an act of being a loving mother in an effort to unload Caylee on the Grunds.

When that didn't work and Jesse didn't adopt Caylee, Casey was stuck with a baby that she didn't want and her new boyfriend didn't want children.
Cindy and George wouldn't let Casey dump the child on them while she ran around and partied. Caylee was an inconvenient burden to Casey. Caylee didn't fit into her lifestyle. Casey had to get rid of Caylee.
:flamemad:

I am betting that Cindy would have taken Caylee in a heartbeat. It would have all worked out if Casey had just ran away from home and left Caylee w/her grandparents. Heck, the A's probably would have even let Casey visit Caylee.

[Amy]

Casey's fugly mug has been plastered all over the media, and there could be any number of guys who did count backwards and had the light bulb come on over their heads. BUT knowing that they would need an attorney (like everyone else in this case seems to need) can you blame him for not coming forward? That said, if Caylee's father can be determined, he should be notified and decide if he wants to come forward (privately or publicly). Just my opinion.

November 2004 was a long time ago, especially if you are a randy young fellow, and out partying and sleeping around, if ya can get some. If there was a lot of partying then (remember, Casey just had to go out in those days, she didn't have to wait to see if Cindy would watch her baby) and if the kids got high, loaded, smashed, whatever it's called these days--whose to even remember WHO was @ a party, and IF they had sex, and with whom? Was Casey such a stand out (okay, she's pretty, has a figure, has "charm") from all the other party girls that, especially if it was a one night stand kind of thing--that EVERY fellow who ever had sex w/her is going to remember from that long ago?

And, yes, she has been all over the media, which makes ME think that, IF Caylee's dad is still alive, and IF he remembers Casey, He probably has decided against coming forward. After all, what can he do for Caylee @ this point? Nothing. All it would get him would be a whirlwind of media blitz and a ruined life.

[Amy]

All true, but I can't help but understand why Casey would want to hide her pregnancy from Cindy.

According to Uncle Rick, she was planning on giving her baby up for adoption, and if Cindy knew, Cindy would be an obstacle to that (as proved to be true.)

[Amy]

It is so crazy that Geraldo is trying to make such drama about this, one thing LE has really been smart about is that they did not try to hide the facts about this meter reader. They almost immediately released the info he had called three times and probably as soon as they found the calls they released those . So now what will Geraldo sensationalize?

So, has he given up screeching about the defense team not being able to check out the crime scene whilst it was being investigated? (I don't watch him much @ all, in fact, one time in about 20 years, lol.) Of course, that was getting pretty old, especially since everyone knows it would be UNUSUAL for the defense to have the crime scene @ the investigation. Because most times, the crime scene is discovered and investigated and THEN a suspect is arrested and THEN the defense has crime scene photos and reports. He (Geraldo) has acted like THIS defense team is the ONLY defense in the history of man who has NOT been allowed to be @ the investigation!!!! :biggrin:

[One2Snoop]

It is a possibility he was wondering"Is that a skull?" It could be. Although I have never heard of anyone getting fired for finding a dead body. Whatever the case, LE missed it fair and square and once his route was changed and the hurricane came, he probably blew it off until he got reassigned and could not help but be curious the bag was still there after all this time.

How would he know it was a skull back then? Didn't he say when he picked up the bag or nudged it with his foot the skull came out? I don't believe he saw a skull prior to his recent finding a few weeks ago. JMO.

[Amy]

Thanks for the reminder! Those results were sealed:

Eyewitness News learned the results of Casey's psychological evaluation were turned over to the Fifth District Court of Appeals and they were the ones who ruled Wednesday afternoon that she would not get another bond hearing. The results of that evaluation are sealed.

http://www.wftv.com/news/17047526/detail.html



I don't see the Anthonys sharing Caylee with anyone, including Casey, no matter the cost.

Thanks!!! That settles the matter then, about a psych eval. No need for another one @ this point, IMO.

[One2Snoop]

I believe that Jesse is a good guy and naive a bit but couldn't see the devil in caysee as we see now. As they say "love is blind". jmo Also as the psych said, these personality disorders don't usually show up til the late teens or early 20's. One of my teachers also said that the personality is not fully developed until age 24. Don't know if that is true, jmo. ;)

IIRC Jesse also said he'd noticed a "change" in Casey and as I think back on that comment I wonder if that change came about when Casey found out he wasn't Caylee's father?

[One2Snoop]

Perhaps nothing RELEASED has tied the defendant to the remains (YET) but, whatever LE/DA has, it is enough to bind her over for trial on FIRST DEGREE (in fact, CAPITAL) murder charges. I don't think the DA takes his job so lightly that he would do that unless he had enough evidence to do so. IMO

ITA Amy! :beer:

Merry Christmas to all of you! :seeya: :rose:

[lighthousedazy]

How would he know it was a skull back then? Didn't he say when he picked up the bag or nudged it with his foot the skull came out? I don't believe he saw a skull prior to his recent finding a few weeks ago. JMO.Yes, on Dec. 11 he picked up the bag or kicked the bag and the skull came out. I don't think the skull was out of the bag in August and went back in the bag. We have also heard the bag was gray and or white back in August. :shrug:

[Amy]

IIRC Jesse also said he'd noticed a "change" in Casey and as I think back on that comment I wonder if that change came about when Casey found out he wasn't Caylee's father?

IMO, Casey ALWAYS knew that Jesse was NOT Caylee's father. If I understand it correctly, they did not start dating (or did not start having sex) until Casey was already 6 weeks pregnant. SHE had to know Jesse was not the dad. She was just hoping, I guess, that Jesse would not figure it out, or question it. Either Jesse or his dad mentioned on an NG show that his family encouraged him to get the DNA, so it could very well be that she could have fooled Jesse if his family had not been around.

[crowamongdoves]

Casey's fugly mug has been plastered all over the media, and there could be any number of guys who did count backwards and had the light bulb come on over their heads. BUT knowing that they would need an attorney (like everyone else in this case seems to need) can you blame him for not coming forward? That said, if Caylee's father can be determined, he should be notified and decide if he wants to come forward (privately or publicly). Just my opinion.

Where is Jerry Springer when you need him he could do a show all the guys that were with Casey Anthony around Oct-Nov 2004 could be on it..LOL

But on a more serious note what if it was Eric Baker he would have been fairly young if he is really the father maybe that fact is why the Ant's didn't want anyone to know.

[One2Snoop]

IMO, Casey ALWAYS knew that Jesse was NOT Caylee's father. If I understand it correctly, they did not start dating (or did not start having sex) until Casey was already 6 weeks pregnant. SHE had to know Jesse was not the dad. She was just hoping, I guess, that Jesse would not figure it out, or question it. Either Jesse or his dad mentioned on an NG show that his family encouraged him to get the DNA, so it could very well be that she could have fooled Jesse if his family had not been around.

Oh, I defintely agree with you that she knew Jesse wasn't the father. I was absolutely floored when I read how Casey tried to pin it on an acquaintance who died in an automobile accident. Or did she really know that guy? I get confused - to many details to keep straight. :read:

[crowamongdoves]

Oh, I defintely agree with you that she knew Jesse wasn't the father. I was absolutely floored when I read how Casey tried to pin it on an acquaintance who died in an automobile accident. Or did she really know that guy? I get confused - to many details to keep straight. :read:

Casey and Cindy have said it was a lot of different guys, that's what makes me think Casey and maybe Cindy know who it is and have a reason to try to cover it up.

[crowamongdoves]

I hope all the posters here have a safe and happy holiday!!!

You're a wonderful group of intelligent and humourous people:rose: You guys brighten up my day during this horrible canadian winter (we've had more snow storms this year than the last 3 put together)



Merry Christmas Everyone!!:beer:

[One2Snoop]

I hope all the posters here have a safe and happy holiday!!!

You're a wonderful group of intelligent and humourous people:rose: You guys brighten up my day during this horrible canadian winter (we've had more snow storms this year than the last 3 put together)



Merry Christmas Everyone!!:beer:

ITA! Same to you CAD! :beer: G'night! :seeya:

[Peachallie]

One2, the state has announced they are NOT seeking the death penalty. And ALL homicide charges are FELONIES. There is no "misdemeanor" murder. What remains are 1st, 2nd & agg. manslaughter. The car trunk evidence indicates a crime committed AFTER death, as I wrote. There are several of those. Usually, the state doesn't file a pile of other charges if they have a strong case for homicide. What may mean the difference between 20-30-life for Anderson is INTENT. Did she INTEND to kill the child? If not, administration of chloroform that led to the child's death equals agg. manslaughter, which in the case of a child can mean 30 years.


If the state cannot prove intent, a life sentence isn't possible, but, 30 plus 10for EACH of several other offenses may add up to life. Under Florida's Criminal Punishment Code Anthony can get the max for every charge. Gain time in Florida prisons is only 15%.

[applesandorange]

One2, the state has announced they are NOT seeking the death penalty. And ALL homicide charges are FELONIES. There is no "misdemeanor" murder. What remains are 1st, 2nd & agg. manslaughter. The car trunk evidence indicates a crime committed AFTER death, as I wrote. There are several of those. Usually, the state doesn't file a pile of other charges if they have a strong case for homicide. What may mean the difference between 20-30-life for Anderson is INTENT. Did she INTEND to kill the child? If not, administration of chloroform that led to the child's death equals agg. manslaughter, which in the case of a child can mean 30 years.


If the state cannot prove intent, a life sentence isn't possible, but, 30 plus 10for EACH of several other offenses may add up to life. Under Florida's Criminal Punishment Code Anthony can get the max for every charge. Gain time in Florida prisons is only 15%.


Duct tape around the skull IS INTENT. Searches for chloroform, neck breaking, missing children sites, death by inhalation etc...etc.. coupled with the tape MAY be circumstanicial BUT a jury would have to be out of their minds to not convict on that. The death penalty could be put back on the table. They took it off BEFORE finding the body.

[Peachallie]

Duct tape around the skull IS INTENT. Searches for chloroform, neck breaking, missing children sites, death by inhalation
*************************************
The duct tape could have been used to keep insects out of the mouth area AFTER death. And it takes no research for an adult to understand how to break the neck of a 2 year old, nor have the searches been tied directly to Anthony. Someone else might have used her computer. And, the medical examiner found no trauma to the bones recovered. It is doubtful the state took the death penalty off the table to be kind to Anthony, if they did, THEY should be replaced.

The state probably has a good idea about the nature of the death. So far, it looks like the death was unintentional, and crimes were committed after the death. And Anthony COULD get 60-90 years on the basis of the extra charges, and agg. manslaughter of a child. That will be the equivalent of LIFE.

[Amy]

Duct tape around the skull IS INTENT. Searches for chloroform, neck breaking, missing children sites, death by inhalation etc...etc.. coupled with the tape MAY be circumstanicial BUT a jury would have to be out of their minds to not convict on that. The death penalty could be put back on the table. They took it off BEFORE finding the body.

The legal beagles on the talk shows say for sure they could reinstate asking for the DP. From what I gathered, I don't think they think it will be, tho. And from the discussions, I think they are saying that is because, to date, they really don't have CAUSE of death. But I get confused because the TH's don't always have a good grip on cases they discuss, altho they do seem to know this one better than some others. And, they don't agree amongst themselves and change their minds. They did all seem to agree, tho, that they could reverse the DP decision.

[Amy]

I didn't know Uncle Rick knew that. I thought he was the one who told Cindy to open her eyes when Cindy argued with him about Casey being pregnant at all.

In any case, Cindy AND Casey had many other alternatives at the time. The one I would have chosen if I were Cindy is, Get custody of the baby and give her daughter the classified ads every day until she figured out how to support herself.

Yes, Uncle Rick is the one who pointed out the pregnancy to Cindy, but that is also the explanation he gave about why Casey had not told Cindy.

[deputydi]

One2, the state has announced they are NOT seeking the death penalty. And ALL homicide charges are FELONIES. There is no "misdemeanor" murder. What remains are 1st, 2nd & agg. manslaughter. The car trunk evidence indicates a crime committed AFTER death, as I wrote. There are several of those. Usually, the state doesn't file a pile of other charges if they have a strong case for homicide. What may mean the difference between 20-30-life for Anderson is INTENT. Did she INTEND to kill the child? If not, administration of chloroform that led to the child's death equals agg. manslaughter, which in the case of a child can mean 30 years.


If the state cannot prove intent, a life sentence isn't possible, but, 30 plus 10for EACH of several other offenses may add up to life. Under Florida's Criminal Punishment Code Anthony can get the max for every charge. Gain time in Florida prisons is only 15%.
Not true. First of all, the state can change their mind on the dp at any point before trial. All they are required to do is give the defense ample notice of their intent.

Second, a life sentence is absolutely possible without proving intent. If the murder happened during the commission of another felony (aggrivated child abuse, for instance) it matters not that the death was an accident. I'll give you an analogy -- you need money and decide to rob a liquor store. During the robbery something goes wrong and the clerk dies. You will be tried for first degree murder and, conceivably receive a death sentence. No intent but first degree just the same. Look up Karla Faye Tucker if you don't believe me. I know Karla was put to death in Texas but I have a hard time believing the law is that much different in FL.

[Peachallie]

The legal beagles on the talk shows say for sure they could reinstate asking for the DP. From what I gathered, I don't think they think it will be, tho. And from the discussions, I think they are saying that is because, to date, they really don't have CAUSE of death.
*******************************************
That is part of the reason I've concluded the State doesn't think they have what is called a "death case". The state hasn't jumped to say they will go for death at trial. And, the intro to this thread is misleading, the ME was rather circumspect in her conclusion that a homicide occurred. She had to rely on circumstantial evidence to so label it. Remember, HOMICIDE can be anything from manslaughter up to capital murder. Chapter 782, Florida Statutes sets forth the various levels of the crime. I can post a link if anyone wants to read them, and it has not already been done.

[Peachallie]

Second, a life sentence is absolutely possible without proving intent. If the murder happened during the commission of another felony (aggrivated child abuse, for instance)
***************************************
Ok, that is a possibly. That part of 782 will apply only if Anthony meant to do serious harm but not kill the child. Agg. manslaughter is more likely from the evidence disclosed. The administration of chloroform if it caused the death might or might not be agg. child abuse. All the evidence points to the possible us of chloroform to keep Caylee out the way so Casey could continue "partying".

[javahog]

The legal beagles on the talk shows say for sure they could reinstate asking for the DP. From what I gathered, I don't think they think it will be, tho. And from the discussions, I think they are saying that is because, to date, they really don't have CAUSE of death.
*******************************************
That is part of the reason I've concluded the State doesn't think they have what is called a "death case". The state hasn't jumped to say they will go for death at trial. And, the intro to this thread is misleading, the ME was rather circumspect in her conclusion that a homicide occurred. She had to rely on circumstantial evidence to so label it. Remember, HOMICIDE can be anything from manslaughter up to capital murder. Chapter 782, Florida Statutes sets forth the various levels of the crime. I can post a link if anyone wants to read them, and it has not already been done.

Hmmn...I wonder what Lacy Peterson died of...

They didn't have that either, yet lovely Scott is sitting in on DR in San Quentin reading missives from his girlfriends...

[joekuhl79]

Welcome to the Casey board, Peach.

I, and many others here will beg to differ with your opinion that nothing released ties her to her daughters disppearance and death. Call it 'circumstancial', it's still there. While we have turned over any/every idea that has come our way....

Casey Anthony's 2 1/2 year old child, last seen with her, diappears. In her own trunk, which is saturated with chloroform, liquified remains of her child are found.. A computer search , done months before Caylee disappears, under Casey's screen name, shows searches of, low and behold, homemade Chloroform! Couple that with a nonexistent nanny, a nonexistent job and every single statement she made being a lie. Then, the child's remains are found down the street from her own house.... I'll let some one else fill in and continue if they like......

She is Guilty as all hell.

Scott Peterson is still appealing and so is Charles Manson....she can appeal all she wants...while she's in there doing LIP, at least.

Don't forget the first, biggest red flag: SHE DIDN'T REPORT HER DAUGHTER MISSING UNTIL HER OWN MOTHER MADE THE PHONE CALL HERSELF, AND THEN MADE LIAR GET ON THE PHONE WITH 911!

Who the hell does that?!?! 'I was searching for my kidnapped daughter myself. In nightclubs. For a month. I didn't want to bother the police or FBI - I know they're so busy.'

I'm really sorry, but who in their right mind can back Liar, or can't see the truth from the mountain of damning evidence (which grows daily).

[deputydi]

That is part of the reason I've concluded the State doesn't think they have what is called a "death case". The state hasn't jumped to say they will go for death at trial. And, the intro to this thread is misleading, the ME was rather circumspect in her conclusion that a homicide occurred. She had to rely on circumstantial evidence to so label it. Remember, HOMICIDE can be anything from manslaughter up to capital murder. Chapter 782, Florida Statutes sets forth the various levels of the crime. I can post a link if anyone wants to read them, and it has not already been done.
Technically, you are right. She had to rely on circumstantial evidence to determine it was a homicide. The rest of the circumstantial evidence IMO strongly links Casey to the homicide. It is not a very large leap to reach that conclusion. During the Peterson trial, this was the argument of many of Scott's supporters. The uphill climb for the defense is to counter the powerful circumstantial evidence and attempt to put reasonable doubt in the minds of the jury. The story about the invisible nanny is not reasonable in my mind and I don't think it will fly in front of the jury either. IMO, that is the only defense they will be able to present and will probably do it through cross examination of the prosecution's witnesses. I don't look for them to put on much of a defense. A few experts and that's about all.

Ok, that is a possibly. That part of 782 will apply only if Anthony meant to do serious harm but not kill the child. Agg. manslaughter is more likely from the evidence disclosed. The administration of chloroform if it caused the death might or might not be agg. child abuse. All the evidence points to the possible us of chloroform to keep Caylee out the way so Casey could continue "partying".
The computer searches will be very important at trial. Who else in that home would be looking up websites on "missing children", "neck breaking", or "chloroform"? The circumstantial evidence points to Casey and no one else. I have no doubt the jury will draw the same conclusion everyone else has. The very strong possibility that chloroform was used to "keep Caylee out of the way" may or may not be aggravated child abuse but she's already been charged with aggravated child neglect -- which, I believe, IS a felony.

I am anxious to hear what the rest of the evidence is. We don't know yet what additional evidentiary items have been taken from the home. That may conclusively tell the rest of the story.

[lorettalockhorn]

One2, the state has announced they are NOT seeking the death penalty. And ALL homicide charges are FELONIES. There is no "misdemeanor" murder. What remains are 1st, 2nd & agg. manslaughter. The car trunk evidence indicates a crime committed AFTER death, as I wrote. There are several of those. Usually, the state doesn't file a pile of other charges if they have a strong case for homicide. What may mean the difference between 20-30-life for Anderson is INTENT. Did she INTEND to kill the child? If not, administration of chloroform that led to the child's death equals agg. manslaughter, which in the case of a child can mean 30 years.


If the state cannot prove intent, a life sentence isn't possible, but, 30 plus 10for EACH of several other offenses may add up to life. Under Florida's Criminal Punishment Code Anthony can get the max for every charge. Gain time in Florida prisons is only 15%.

HUH? You lost me there. How does the car trunk evidence indicate a crime committed AFTER death without a doubt? Is that your theory, or has the defense indicated that that is one of their many defenses? Or is this tied into the "Zanny did it and along with having a key to the Anthonys' house, she also had a key to Casey's car" theory?


Duct tape around the skull IS INTENT. Searches for chloroform, neck breaking, missing children sites, death by inhalation
*************************************
The duct tape could have been used to keep insects out of the mouth area AFTER death. And it takes no research for an adult to understand how to break the neck of a 2 year old, nor have the searches been tied directly to Anthony. Someone else might have used her computer. And, the medical examiner found no trauma to the bones recovered. It is doubtful the state took the death penalty off the table to be kind to Anthony, if they did, THEY should be replaced.

The state probably has a good idea about the nature of the death. So far, it looks like the death was unintentional, and crimes were committed after the death. And Anthony COULD get 60-90 years on the basis of the extra charges, and agg. manslaughter of a child. That will be the equivalent of LIFE.

That's rich! The real murderer wrapped duct tape around Caylee's head to keep insects out of her mouth and then dumped her corpse in a littered woody swamp teeming with insects and all sorts of marauding fauna.

[joekuhl79]

Casey Anthony can certainly be tied to her daughter's disappearance; she had a duty to KNOW what was happening. None of her excuses are believable but being a dirtbag does not convict one of murder. There remains the possibility that she had nothing to do with her daughter's death AND isn't sorry it occurred.


(My PERSONAL view is that the death was either accidental and/or the result of culpable negligence; still, that puts her away for 30 years possibly. There are also the other charges to pile on the years should Anthony NOT be convicted of 1st or 2nd degree homicide. The jury may have a menu of options.)

I disagree...

If Liar killed Caylee by accident, she absolutely would have called 911...
If someone else killed Caylee and she discovered the body, she'd have called 911...

In either case, she'd have called 911 - she'd bask in the resulting attention.

[lorettalockhorn]

Hey y'all maybe this will help us diagnose Casey:

Christmas Caroling For ARMCHAIR Psychologists

1. Schizophrenia --- Do You Hear What I Hear?

2. Multiple Personality Disorder --- We Three Kings Disoriented Are

3. Dementia --- I Think I'll be Home for Christmas

4. Narcissistic --- Hark the Herald Angels Sing About Me

5. Manic --- Deck the Halls and Walls and House and Lawn and Streets and Stores and Office and Town and Cars and Buses and Trucks and
Trees and.....

6. Paranoid --- Santa Claus is Coming to Town (to Get Me) and You Better Watch Out

7. Borderline Personality Disorder --- Thoughts of Roasting on an Open Fire 8. Personality Disorder --- You Better Watch Out, I'm Gonna Cry, I'm Gonna Pout, Maybe I'll Tell You Why

9. Attention Deficit Disorder --- Silent night, Holy oooh look at
the froggy - can I have a chocolate, why is France so far away?

10. Obsessive Compulsive Disorder --- Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells,
Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells,
Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells,
Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells,
Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells,
Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells,
Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells,
Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells,
Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells,
Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells,

[POE-33]

HUH? You lost me there. How does the car trunk evidence indicate a crime committed AFTER death without a doubt? Is that your theory, or has the defense indicated that that is one of their many defenses? Or is this tied into the "Zanny did it and along with having a key to the Anthonys' house, she also had a key to Casey's car" theory?




That's rich! The real murderer wrapped duct tape around Caylee's head to keep insects out of her mouth and then dumped her corpse in a littered woody swamp teeming with insects and all sorts of marauding fauna.

Good point, Loretta.
Peach would have us believe that Casey killed little Caylee, either deliberately of by malicious neglect and drove around with the child's body in the trunk of her car until the body began to stink and then dumped her body in a boggy swamp like garbage, yet was concerned that insects might get in the child's mouth

Get real Peach! You're not just grasping at straws, you're grasping at shadows.
:no:

[Justice Denied?]

I am betting that Cindy would have taken Caylee in a heartbeat. It would have all worked out if Casey had just ran away from home and left Caylee w/her grandparents. Heck, the A's probably would have even let Casey visit Caylee.

But would they have continued supporting Casey? That's where the problem arises. Casey would have had to work and support herself.

[tv]

Hey y'all maybe this will help us diagnose Casey:

Christmas Caroling For ARMCHAIR Psychologists...

Thanks, loretta, I got a big laugh out of this! :)

[tv]

Good point, Loretta.
Peach would have us believe that Casey killed little Caylee, either deliberately of by malicious neglect and drove around with the child's body in the trunk of her car until the body began to stink and then dumped her body in a boggy swamp like garbage, yet was concerned that insects might get in the child's mouth

Get real Peach! You're not just grasping at straws, you're grasping at shadows.
:no:

I can't imagine Casey even thinking about insects getting in Caylee's mouth...she obviously didn't think the body was going to eventually cause an unbearable stench or she would have done something with it right away -- I think. :rolleyes:

[deputydi]

But would they have continued supporting Casey? That's where the problem arises. Casey would have had to work and support herself.
I think if it hadn't been for Caylee, tot mom Casey would have been out on her lazy arse a long time ago.

[javahog]

Hey y'all maybe this will help us diagnose Casey:

Christmas Caroling For ARMCHAIR Psychologists

1. Schizophrenia --- Do You Hear What I Hear?

2. Multiple Personality Disorder --- We Three Kings Disoriented Are

3. Dementia --- I Think I'll be Home for Christmas

4. Narcissistic --- Hark the Herald Angels Sing About Me

5. Manic --- Deck the Halls and Walls and House and Lawn and Streets and Stores and Office and Town and Cars and Buses and Trucks and
Trees and.....

6. Paranoid --- Santa Claus is Coming to Town (to Get Me) and You Better Watch Out

7. Borderline Personality Disorder --- Thoughts of Roasting on an Open Fire 8. Personality Disorder --- You Better Watch Out, I'm Gonna Cry, I'm Gonna Pout, Maybe I'll Tell You Why

9. Attention Deficit Disorder --- Silent night, Holy oooh look at
the froggy - can I have a chocolate, why is France so far away?

10. Obsessive Compulsive Disorder --- Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells,
Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells,
Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells,
Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells,
Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells,
Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells,
Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells,
Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells,
Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells,
Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells,



Hee, hee...

11. Nymphomania---"Don we now our gay apparel (or not), falalalala-la!"


Merry Christmas, everybody!:seeya:

[Woostock]

Danagher

Sounds as if you have this evening all planned and can enjoy the family. Thanks for your contributions to the thread. I see that you are in RI....we have a summer house at the beach in RI. If we were going there tonight we'd have an eggnog with you!!!! Take care and have a great night
Carol aka Woostock

[Lodi]

Yes, on Dec. 11 he picked up the bag or kicked the bag and the skull came out. I don't think the skull was out of the bag in August and went back in the bag. We have also heard the bag was gray and or white back in August. :shrug:

I've listened to Kronk's first three calls several times. At no time does he say the word bag. He has something else on his mind other than a bag. He mentioned a fallen tree, a stump, a white board, a dead Eastern diamondback rattlesnake, and something else white that doesn't belong there. I believe he saw Caylee's skull. Although the story this month was that he either poked the bag with a stick or kicked the bag causing the skull to roll out, it was not said when he did the poking or kicking. That may have happened the first time he saw it in August. Only Kronk knows the truth of what he did and saw but his persistence in calling the police leads me to believe he saw something more than a bag from the beginning. If that was a dumping spot, I wouldn't have been surprised to see dozens of bags. He didn't seem to be able to give directions and place names any better than he could describe what he was calling about.

[Peachallie]

The uphill climb for the defense is to counter the powerful circumstantial evidence and attempt to put reasonable doubt in the minds of the jury.
**************************************
No, the prosecution has the burden of EXCLUDING all reasonable doubts in the US. I see an uphill battle for 1st or 2nd degree; I think an agg. manslaughter conviction will be easier. And, I can see Casey Anderson getting 30 for it due to public outrage. I'm wondering if the prosecution will add 20-50 for the other charges, that WOULD MAKE IT a life sentence anyway. But of course, discovery isn't complete & trial will not begin until March. Much can happen between now & March.

[Brainstorm]

I've listened to Kronk's first three calls several times. At no time does he say the word bag. He has something else on his mind other than a bag. He mentioned a fallen tree, a stump, a white board, a dead Eastern diamondback rattlesnake, and something else white that doesn't belong there. I believe he saw Caylee's skull. Although the story this month was that he either poked the bag with a stick or kicked the bag causing the skull to roll out, it was not said when he did the poking or kicking. That may have happened the first time he saw it in August. Only Kronk knows the truth of what he did and saw but his persistence in calling the police leads me to believe he saw something more than a bag from the beginning. If that was a dumping spot, I wouldn't have been surprised to see dozens of bags. He didn't seem to be able to give directions and place names any better than he could describe what he was calling about.
Crucify the guy who found the remains!!!! Typical for you,tho.
How about THANKING GOD he did persist!!!!!
imo

[deputydi]

The uphill climb for the defense is to counter the powerful circumstantial evidence and attempt to put reasonable doubt in the minds of the jury.
**************************************
No, the prosecution has the burden of EXCLUDING all reasonable doubts in the US. I see an uphill battle for 1st or 2nd degree; I think an agg. manslaughter conviction will be easier. And, I can see Casey Anderson getting 30 for it due to public outrage. I'm wondering if the prosecution will add 20-50 for the other charges, that WOULD MAKE IT a life sentence anyway. But of course, discovery isn't complete & trial will not begin until March. Much can happen between now & March.
I don't know what you mean by "the prosecution has the burden of EXCLUDING all reasonable doubt". The pros must prove two things -- that a murder was committed and that Casey did it. It is the responsibility of the defense to try and create reasonable doubt in the minds of the jurors. This is their uphill battle. They don't have to "prove" anything.

With what we know right now about the computer searches, the amount of chloroform detected in the car, the odor of a decomposing body, Casey not reporting the "kidnapping" for 31 days (and only reporting it then because her mother forced the issue), changing her story about how the "kidnapping" occurred, and her multitude of lies, what makes you think a 1st degree murder conviction would be difficult? I am more convinced of her guilt this early on than I was of Scott's.

As for tacking extra time on for her other charges -- she would have to be tried and convicted of them first. That probably won't happen. IMO they have her dead to rights on a murder charge and, once that conviction is rendered, the other charges will be a moot issue.

BTW, it's Casey Anthony, not Casey Anderson.

[deputydi]

Crucify the guy who found the remains!!!! Typical for you,tho.
How about THANKING GOD he did persist!!!!!
imo
I wondered how long it would take someone to cast suspicion on the meter reader. I agree that we should all be thanking God for his persistance.

[Its just me]

Don't pay Lodie an ounce of attention. He's something else...I just don't know what it is yet. :shrug: But it begins with trouble. fep

[Lodi]

I wondered how long it would take someone to cast suspicion on the meter reader. I agree that we should all be thanking God for his persistance.

I haven't suspected any criminal actions by the meter reader. I suspect that he knew in August what he had found but was unable to get anyone's attention. He was not forceful enough and those he reported to were not taking him seriously enough.

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/myfox/MyFox/pages/sidebar_video.jsp?contentId=8132676&version=1&locale=EN-US

[Peachallie]

With what we know right now about the computer searches, the amount of chloroform detected in the car, the odor of a decomposing body, Casey not reporting the "kidnapping" for 31 days (and only reporting it then because her mother forced the issue), changing her story about how the "kidnapping" occurred, and her multitude of lies,
***************************************
As I have written, Anthony (yes, I keep writing ANDERSON) may have been glad the kid was no longer interfering with her party time but that means -0- in terms of intent to kill the child. And the Florida Standard jury instruction states as follows:

"...whether the state has proved its accusation beyond a reasonable doubt"


The defense does NOT have to prove ANYTHING. The computer searches are superfluous; breaking the neck of a two year old requires no research. And, FIRST, the state would need to prove SHE performed the searches. The chloroform could be important. I've read some in her crowd used it for the purpose she most likely did; to put the kid to sleep & have fun for hours.

Yes, Casey Anthony has lied, and she seems to be remorseful only because she is being held responsible. None of that shows intent to commit murder. She's a BUM, and the state can prove it; proving her child's death was something she intended will much, much harder. *


Florida's Standard Jury Instructions of course include the admonition to the jury NOT to draw conclusions until ALL evidence has been presented. The Constitution often gets in the way of quick & simple solutions to tough cases. THANK GOD.

[Justice Denied?]

The uphill climb for the defense is to counter the powerful circumstantial evidence and attempt to put reasonable doubt in the minds of the jury.
**************************************
No, the prosecution has the burden of EXCLUDING all reasonable doubts in the US. I see an uphill battle for 1st or 2nd degree; I think an agg. manslaughter conviction will be easier. And, I can see Casey Anderson getting 30 for it due to public outrage. I'm wondering if the prosecution will add 20-50 for the other charges, that WOULD MAKE IT a life sentence anyway. But of course, discovery isn't complete & trial will not begin until March. Much can happen between now & March.

I personally don't think the trial will come off in March. I think the defense will stall as long as possible to let the publicity die down some.

Just want to take a momemt to wish each of you all the joy that this season brings. I have thoroughally enjoyed each of you. Merry Christmas!

[Peachallie]

Well, the state didn't fight a continuance till March; they have to build a case. It may be that neither side is prepared in March. I am hoping the ME purposefully downplayed the importance of the remaining toxicology tests. If chloroform in abnormal levels was found in the bones it could go a long way toward answering the myriad questions.

[Justice Denied?]

Well, the state didn't fight a continuance till March; they have to build a case. It may be that neither side is prepared in March. I am hoping the ME purposefully downplayed the importance of the remaining toxicology tests. If chloroform in abnormal levels was found in the bones it could go a long way toward answering the myriad questions.
i agree. I am really anxious to see what the reports on the hair say and also to learn if they find prints on the duct tape.

[deputydi]

Well, the state didn't fight a continuance till March; they have to build a case. It may be that neither side is prepared in March. I am hoping the ME purposefully downplayed the importance of the remaining toxicology tests. If chloroform in abnormal levels was found in the bones it could go a long way toward answering the myriad questions.
I guess the state could have opposed the continuance, but it wouldn't have done them any good. The defendant is guaranteed a speedy trial (in PA it's 180 days if the defendant is incarcerated -- I would assume it's the same in FL), but if they request a continuance they are waiving that right and Judges almost always go along with it. The first request especially is never denied and the pros knows it.

The clock started ticking when she was formally arraigned on the murder charges. The state has to be ready for trial and believe they have enough evidence at that time to substantiate the charges. They don't get a second bite of the apple and they cannot request a continuance.

I'm no expert on toxicology, but I don't think chloroform levels can be detected in the bones. Tissue, yes. However, there seems to be no tissue to test. We'll just have to wait and see what the rest of the toxicology tests reveal.

[deputydi]

I personally don't think the trial will come off in March. I think the defense will stall as long as possible to let the publicity die down some.

Just want to take a momemt to wish each of you all the joy that this season brings. I have thoroughally enjoyed each of you. Merry Christmas!
Thank you, Justice. I wish you and everyone here a wonderful Christmas and a safe and joyous New Year.

BTW, I agree with you about the defense stalling. Their heads must be spinning right now.

[Peachallie]

Yes, after the 1st continuance in my Circuit, the Judge wants a waiver of speedy. Here is Florida's law:

http://www.flsenate.gov/statutes/index.cfm?mode=View%20Statutes&SubMenu=1&App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=speedy+trial&URL=CH0960/Sec0015.HTM


The State will not NEED to show intent if Caylee Anthony has abnormal chloroform levels in the hair or bones. And we'll know before March if a plea is possible I believe.

[Gatordog]

LOL at NG telling her unleashed lawyers that she will give them the commercial break to answer her question about how Casey's sunglasses tie to the crime scene. It's soooooo like My Evil Grandmother telling me to sit in the blue chair until I straighten up and fly right. I'm going to borrow Casey's Christmas calendar and figure out Nancy's cycle so I'll know when it's safe to watch. She's battering Natisha tonight to about the comments that Cindy emotionally abused Casey. Not trying to pick up anyone's cross here, but having Caylee call her Momma wasn't exactly conducive to a healthy hierarchy in that household. And we've seen how Cindy handles herself in public with a camera in her face; can you imagine what she's like behind closed doors?? She could probably give fishwife lessons.

Hi Loretta :seeya: My thinking on the sunglasses is that they found the receipt or the little plastic tag that has the price and info. Perhaps a lot of the garbage that was strewn around was from Tony's apartment. She had some in the trunk of her car and maybe she dumped some too.

Gator

[deputydi]

Yes, after the 1st continuance in my Circuit, the Judge wants a waiver of speedy. Here is Florida's law:

http://www.flsenate.gov/statutes/index.cfm?mode=View%20Statutes&SubMenu=1&App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=speedy+trial&URL=CH0960/Sec0015.HTM


The State will not NEED to show intent if Caylee Anthony has abnormal chloroform levels in the hair or bones. And we'll know before March if a plea is possible I believe.
Do you seriously believe that Casey will ever agree to plead guilty to anything? I don't. In order for a plea deal to even be discussed, the defendant would have to admit she murdered her daughter. I just don't see that happening.

[Gatordog]

And just if odd, if not odder, after they have been to Universal and she admits no job, no office, when they are in the interview w/her, she goes right back to talking about her job, her other phone. @ one point on of the detectives reminds her she admitted it was all a lie. Yeah, I know and blah blah blah.....just goes right on!!!!

And let's not forget when she was released on bond a social worker from DCF met with her at her house. She told the social worker she did work at Universal and was tearing the house apart looking for her W2's. :shrug:

[Justice Denied?]

Hi Loretta :seeya: My thinking on the sunglasses is that they found the receipt or the little plastic tag that has the price and info. Perhaps a lot of the garbage that was strewn around was from Tony's apartment. She had some in the trunk of her car and maybe she dumped some too.

Gator

That's one of the first theories I have heard that make any sense. I kept thinking maybe hair got caught in the hinges but couldn't figure out the connection there.

Do you think there is something that leads back to George and Cindy and their concealing evidence?

[Gatordog]

Seems like she was acting out all the behaviors of one who went on drugs. The symptoms are clear to me.. IMO Casey was mind altered.

The Liar doesn't have one or two behavior differences. She is a chameleon (sp?). She alters her personality to best fit the person she is trying to impress. When she no longer finds the prey enticing, she becomes herself and then they wonder where she went and who is this new, uncaring person.

Gator

[Peachallie]

Do you seriously believe that Casey will ever agree to plead guilty to anything? I don't. In order for a plea deal to even be discussed, the defendant would have to admit she murdered her daughter. I just don't see that happening.
**************************************
Yes. Going through the evidence at trial is often overwhelming to even repeat offenders. Is she STRONG enough to withstand the trial? I doubt it. And if the State offers 30-50, she may think somehow SHE'LL get out sooner than 25-47 in. I see it happen, defendants who believe some good fairy will shorten their sentence. Casey Anthony is a self centered, selfish, self absorbed individual, I do not see her getting through a trial.

[Gatordog]

According to Uncle Rick, she was planning on giving her baby up for adoption, and if Cindy knew, Cindy would be an obstacle to that (as proved to be true.)

I don't believe it. She never intended to put that baby up for adoption. she might have sold it to the highest bidder, regardless of who it was.

[deputydi]

Yes. Going through the evidence at trial is often overwhelming to even repeat offenders. Is she STRONG enough to withstand the trial? I doubt it. And if the State offers 30-50, she may think somehow SHE'LL get out sooner than 25-47 in. I see it happen, defendants who believe some good fairy will shorten their sentence. Casey Anthony is a self centered, selfish, self absorbed individual, I do not see her getting through a trial.
This I have to agree with. I would have more confidence in this happening if I believed she is getting good representation. I don't know anything about Jose Baez, but, from what I've seen on tv, I'm not impressed with him.

O/T -- I see from your location you are in northern FL. Are you anywhere near Jacksonville? Two of my kids live there and I love the area. Actually, my son lives in Orange Park and my daughter in Jacksonville.

[Gatordog]

Do you seriously believe that Casey will ever agree to plead guilty to anything? I don't. In order for a plea deal to even be discussed, the defendant would have to admit she murdered her daughter. I just don't see that happening.
**************************************
Yes. Going through the evidence at trial is often overwhelming to even repeat offenders. Is she STRONG enough to withstand the trial? I doubt it. And if the State offers 30-50, she may think somehow SHE'LL get out sooner than 25-47 in. I see it happen, defendants who believe some good fairy will shorten their sentence. Casey Anthony is a self centered, selfish, self absorbed individual, I do not see her getting through a trial.

She got through 31 days of partying after killing her daughter. This woman thinks she bis smarter than everyone else. She doesn't think she'll be found guilty because she's so beautiful and charming. She thinks she can twist anyone to her way of thinking and up to now, she has. I don't think Det. Allen and Melich think she is so beautiful, and they didn't buy her lies from the minute her lips started to move. She thinks they are the stupid ones. I don't think she will ever plead out.

Gator

[lorettalockhorn]

Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, Happy Kwanzaa CL!

I love this place and all the folks who post! Hate the crimes that bring us here, but true crime has taught me to always, always count my blessings.

Old Soul, thank you for the beautiful card, is that a St. Pauli Girl tree? Who you callin' a HO? :hat:

Gator, those sunglasses mean something. I guess it says something that the Anthonys haven't destroyed everything of Casey's. It must be tempting.

Javahog, there just aren't enough pix of Casey in her gay apparel!!!

http://i42.tinypic.com/8wcuvd.jpg

Peach, that's an interesting thought that you have about Casey not being able to withstand a trial. I thought that the defense was looking forward to presenting the other half of the story. So does this mean that you don't think she's going to testify? It's going to be really interesting to see what the defense has up its sleeve!!

[Gatordog]

Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night!

I hope all your Christmas wishes come true.

Gator

[One2Snoop]

I don't believe it. She never intended to put that baby up for adoption. she might have sold it to the highest bidder, regardless of who it was.

I think its a must we all remember to refer to Caylee as a person and not an "it" or "that baby" Those words remind me of Anthony speak. :eek: JMO.

Not picking on ya gator - but I do have a few peeves when it comes to this case and those are two of them. :seeya:

Hugs and Merry Christmas to you and yours. :rose:

[Peachallie]

She got through 31 days of partying after killing her daughter. This woman thinks she bis smarter than everyone else. She doesn't think she'll be found guilty because she's so beautiful and charming. She thinks she can twist anyone to her way of thinking and up to now, she has.
*************************************
She is in now jail with NO BOND; she isn't getting away with ANYTHING. Her bravado will probably fade the closer she gets to facing the Judge & jury. She knows she'll be questioned about the contradictory stories which have proven false; her attorneys will prep her with expected questions, she'll read the depos of other witnesses questioned about her life, her behavior, her lies, and her hollow excuses. Maybe she think of other "beautiful" individuals sent to rot in prison. And she'll realize her looks cannot get her out of jail NOW, why would they help at TRIAL?


(I live in the rural area outside of Jacksonville)

[One2Snoop]

Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, Happy Kwanzaa CL!

I love this place and all the folks who post! Hate the crimes that bring us here, but true crime has taught me to always, always count my blessings.

Old Soul, thank you for the beautiful card, is that a St. Pauli Girl tree? Who you callin' a HO? :hat:

Gator, those sunglasses mean something. I guess it says something that the Anthonys haven't destroyed everything of Casey's. It must be tempting.

Javahog, there just aren't enough pix of Casey in her gay apparel!!!

http://i42.tinypic.com/8wcuvd.jpg

Peach, that's an interesting thought that you have about Casey not being able to withstand a trial. I thought that the defense was looking forward to presenting the other half of the story. So does this mean that you don't think she's going to testify? It's going to be really interesting to see what the defense has up its sleeve!!

IMO its all smoke and mirrors but thats JMO.

Santa found Casey on his list and said, "I have a, Ho, Ho, Ho, on my list but she gets no sympathy from me because she's right where she belongs. IMO, Santa's one smart guy and knows all. :biggrin:

Merry Christmas to you and "LeRoy". :beer:

[Peachallie]

I thought that the defense was looking forward to presenting the other half of the story. So does this mean that you don't think she's going to testify? It's going to be really interesting to see what the defense has up its sleeve!!
***************************************
The defense is supposed to want to show other facts. But three months before the set trial term isn't dread time, YET. Confidence fades as the matter nears trial; Casey Anthony has lots of time to THINK now too. It never appeared to be a priority for her on the outside.

[Amy]

This I have to agree with. I would have more confidence in this happening if I believed she is getting good representation. I don't know anything about Jose Baez, but, from what I've seen on tv, I'm not impressed with him.

O/T -- I see from your location you are in northern FL. Are you anywhere near Jacksonville? Two of my kids live there and I love the area. Actually, my son lives in Orange Park and my daughter in Jacksonville.

She has LKB on her dream team. I haven't watched her in action, but from what I read, others seem to think she has what it takes--and, her objective is a not guilty (even if that means a hung jury--the "win" for a guilty client, for the time being, anyway.) She is "deferring" to Jose, assisting HIM, but she sure talked more @ the one hearing (the day they found Caylee) and he shuffled papers. And, in the Geraldo show, @ the crime scene, she did a bit more talking than Jose did. She sounds and looks like a forceful, aggresive go-getter, and I don't see her taking a back seat to Jose much @ all. I'm betting (because, after all SHE has the expertise) she will be running the show, and Jose will be her mouthpiece--with what SHE tells him will be said and done. But, that's just the impression I get from watching, hearing her.

[Amy]

Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, Happy Kwanzaa CL!

I love this place and all the folks who post! Hate the crimes that bring us here, but true crime has taught me to always, always count my blessings.

Old Soul, thank you for the beautiful card, is that a St. Pauli Girl tree? Who you callin' a HO? :hat:

Gator, those sunglasses mean something. I guess it says something that the Anthonys haven't destroyed everything of Casey's. It must be tempting.

Javahog, there just aren't enough pix of Casey in her gay apparel!!!

http://i42.tinypic.com/8wcuvd.jpg

Peach, that's an interesting thought that you have about Casey not being able to withstand a trial. I thought that the defense was looking forward to presenting the other half of the story. So does this mean that you don't think she's going to testify? It's going to be really interesting to see what the defense has up its sleeve!!

Can she take an Alford (Alferd?) plea in a murder case? I think that is what Veterinarian Wendi Davidson in TX did. Ended up w/25 years (up for parole in 12?) for murdering her husband. Did not plead guilty, but realized that her chances of being found guilty were high.

[One2Snoop]

This I have to agree with. I would have more confidence in this happening if I believed she is getting good representation. I don't know anything about Jose Baez, but, from what I've seen on tv, I'm not impressed with him.

O/T -- I see from your location you are in northern FL. Are you anywhere near Jacksonville? Two of my kids live there and I love the area. Actually, my son lives in Orange Park and my daughter in Jacksonville.

IIRC, George wasn't happy with Casey's choice of atty's either. Casey found out about this guy thru other inmates at the jail. I don't blame George at all for his feelings - he obviously knew she was in over her head and I believe if George had any say in the matter, Jose Baez would not have been his first pick. In hindsight if we all take the time to think about it, maybe it was a match made in heaven between Casey and Baez. Our first clue should've been, Baez defends incarcerated liars for a living, period.

JMO

[One2Snoop]

Can she take an Alford (Alferd?) plea in a murder case? I think that is what Veterinarian Wendi Davidson in TX did. Ended up w/25 years (up for parole in 12?) for murdering her husband. Did not plead guilty, but realized that her chances of being found guilty were high.

I believe Casey was given the chance to come clean more times than we can count. She refused to budge from her lies and lead LE on a wild goose chase.
Now the wall comes crumbling down. Casey has been dealt every opportunity to come clean but chose to weave a web of lies instead. I don't see any forthcoming chance for an alford plea in this case, ever. IMO, JMO.

[RayStar]

Happy Holidays to all. After reading some of the posts here, I now have a mental picture of Caylee sitting on Santa's lap. I am so angry at Casey. Cindy and George I feel sorry for. I don't think they saw any of this coming. I feel as a parent you still love your children regardless of what they may have becomed. 9505 This is such a horrible case.

[Peachallie]

She can plead no contest straight up*, whether the court accepts it is up to the court. The court can make a guilty finding from a no contest plea. She isn't facing the death penalty so the Alford case isn't applicable.


*Plead without any agreement as to sentence. Then both sides agrue about sentence.

[lorettalockhorn]

Casey Anthony's Zenaida Claim Inspired by TV Show?
Tuesday, December 23, 2008 – updated: 7:09 pm EST December 24, 2008

ORANGE COUNTY, Fla. -- Channel 9 has learned that investigators are looking at whether a popular TV show may have provided Casey Anthony with the inspiration she needed to create a story about Caylee’s disappearance.

Computer records given to Eyewitness News showed Casey did a Google search for "One Tree Hill's” 100th episode, right before Caylee disappeared.

That episode just happens to be about a nanny kidnapping a child.

Legal analyst Bill Sheaffer believes this could be a critical piece of evidence the state will use in this case against Casey.

“The story of the plot line is so similar and that is the story she originally came out (with). And it’s the story she continues and continues to stick with,” said Sheaffer.

In March, three months before Caylee disappeared, Casey’s computer records show she was researching how to make chloroform, household weapons, and neck breaking.

In between those searches Casey was looking up the 100th episode of “One Tree Hill.”

“It goes to serve two issues: one premeditation for the death of the child and two, it serves as a basis for this incredible story that the imaginary babysitter kidnapped and killed the child,” said Sheaffer.

Casey told investigators the nanny, Zenaida Gonzales, kidnapped Caylee. Detectives said they will definitely look into the information and this will most likely help in the case against Casey...


http://www.wftv.com/news/18343056/detail.html

[lorettalockhorn]

One Tree Hill: Episode 5.12 "Hundred" Recap

http://www.buddytv.com/articles/one-tree-hill/one-tree-hill-episode-512-hund-17694.aspx

One Tree Hill: Hundred

http://www.tv.com/one-tree-hill/hundred/episode/1163641/recap.html?tag=overview;recap


ETA: This episode first aired March 18, 2008; isn't that about the time that the computer was used to research missing chilren sites?

[Gatordog]

I think its a must we all remember to refer to Caylee as a person and not an "it" or "that baby" Those words remind me of Anthony speak. :eek: JMO.

Not picking on ya gator - but I do have a few peeves when it comes to this case and those are two of them. :seeya:

Hugs and Merry Christmas to you and yours. :rose:

Actions speak louder than words. I guess I'm not a baby person. I've never even changed a diaper. How you treat people is 100 times more important than a word. Sorry if I used the wrong terms, but that's just not something I think about. :o

Gator

[Peachallie]

If the prosecution is desperate enough to be offering searches of TV show plots for evidence, the defense will make mincemeat out of the case. Casey Anthony could have researched household weapons BECAUSE she saw a TV show about them; once again, breaking the neck of a two year old requires NO research.

[deputydi]

If the prosecution is desperate enough to be offering searches of TV show plots for evidence, the defense will make mincemeat out of the case. Casey Anthony could have researched household weapons BECAUSE she saw a TV show about them; once again, breaking the neck of a two year old requires NO research.
There is a lot of creative speculation going on here, but I wholeheartedly agree with you. The only relevance those computer searches could possibly have is the one for homemade chloroform -- and, only if they can tie the chloroform to Caylee's death. They may be ablle to make that connection through thre air samples in the car.

I shudder to think what conclusions LE would draw from my coimputer searches.

[lorettalockhorn]

If the prosecution is desperate enough to be offering searches of TV show plots for evidence, the defense will make mincemeat out of the case. Casey Anthony could have researched household weapons BECAUSE she saw a TV show about them; once again, breaking the neck of a two year old requires NO research.

Not that we know that is was Casey who searched neck breaking (it has been suggested on other site(s) that she may have been searching the name of a club in Orlando; Breakin' Necks). As far as I can tell from reading Dr. G's report, there is no evidence that Caylee's neck was broken. But since it's possible to break a young child's neck without actually leaving evidence it would be a good way to murder a child.

What's the problem with the defense trying to explain Casey's or someone's searches on the computer? We know well and good that the jury is going to be grappling with whatever the hell was going on with Casey and trying to figure out some rhyme or reason to her crimes and her behavior. And when and if a jury who hasn't been tainted by the media blitz can be found, they're likely to draw plenty of conclusions from Casey's behavior and punish her to the Nth degree allowable by law. It's possible that we haven't seen much of the evidence that the prosecution has against Casey and haven't seen what will be presented by both sides in discovery, and it's possible that the death penalty will be back on the table.

[Peachallie]

The only relevance those computer searches could possibly have is the one for homemade chloroform -- and, only if they can tie the chloroform to Caylee's death. They may be ablle to make that connection through thre air samples in the car.
*****************************************
Or the hair, I HOPE, but do not know. I do know the so called "death bands" can appear on hairs taken from live humans under certain circumstances.

[Justice Denied?]

I believe Casey was given the chance to come clean more times than we can count. She refused to budge from her lies and lead LE on a wild goose chase.
Now the wall comes crumbling down. Casey has been dealt every opportunity to come clean but chose to weave a web of lies instead. I don't see any forthcoming chance for an alford plea in this case, ever. IMO, JMO.

May I ask what an Alford plea is? That is not a phrase I am familiar with.

I believe the defense will call all their experts to try and refute the forensic evidence and that's it. I don't think Casey will testify at all. There will be nothing about Zenaida or a kidnapping unless the prosecution brings it in.
JMO

[Justice Denied?]

:eek:


Thank you for the greetings and Merry Christmas to you Loretta. I like it here too. Good people, though there may be a rat in the woodpile now and then. :chicken: I won't touch any of those posts. I don't miss when I aim my keyboard, nuh uh! So I'd be wise to ignore them...

Now tell me how you manage to write so coherently with all the hagnog in ya? You're no rookie and hagnog or not, I enjoy your posts very much!
Enjoy the holiday! :beer:

After this particular case came to light, I also count my blessings. This case is a good study on dysfunctional family stuff and what happens when control is implemented. There is no such thing as control. Nobody wins. I believe Cindy is as sick as Casey. (In a different way) Apple tree apple. Pot Kettle Black.

Hey! It's Christmas Day!!!!!!!! It's bitter cold outside and it's white too! To all you Floridians, don't melt in the sun, and stop calling me to tell me how nice and warm it is over there! :(

I sincerely hope that one of the good things that comesfrom this tragedy and Caylee's death is that people will take a long hard look at their own faimilies and get help if needed before things go this far.:rose::rose::rose:

[Justice Denied?]

Thanks Raystar, same to you and yours. :)

You may be right about the Anthony's and I respect your opinion about them but personally I haven't seen anything so far from this family that resembles love. Of course we all love our children unconditionally but those folks seem to have fear, which isn't love. I do love my children unconditionally but I do not fear them. We all are guilty of throwing the word love around but love is NOT what we feel, it's what we do.

Cindy had her hands around Casey's neck and intended to choke her just before Casey left her home. And Casey IMO killed the very thing Cindy cared about. That's not love where I come from.

This is love:

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails.

I think you hit the nail on the head when you say that George and Cindy were afraid of Casey. I think they were afraid she would take Caylee away if they didn't do what she wanted. Also they wanted to keep her calm and keep her from throwing fits.

I love the scripture from Corinthians. Had it read at my wedding back in'66.
It says it all.

[tv]

May I ask what an Alford plea is? That is not a phrase I am familiar with.

I believe the defense will call all their experts to try and refute the forensic evidence and that's it. I don't think Casey will testify at all. There will be nothing about Zenaida or a kidnapping unless the prosecution brings it in.
JMO


In an Alford Plea, the criminal defendant does not admit the act, but admits that the prosecution could likely prove the charge. The court will pronounce the defendant guilty. The defendant may plead guilty yet not admit all the facts that comprise the crime. An Alford plea allows defendant to plead guilty even while unable or unwilling to admit guilt.

It goes into more detail at the link: http://definitions.uslegal.com/a/alford-plea/

[deputydi]

Not that we know that is was Casey who searched neck breaking (it has been suggested on other site(s) that she may have been searching the name of a club in Orlando; Breakin' Necks). As far as I can tell from reading Dr. G's report, there is no evidence that Caylee's neck was broken. But since it's possible to break a young child's neck without actually leaving evidence it would be a good way to murder a child.

What's the problem with the defense trying to explain Casey's or someone's searches on the computer? We know well and good that the jury is going to be grappling with whatever the hell was going on with Casey and trying to figure out some rhyme or reason to her crimes and her behavior. And when and if a jury who hasn't been tainted by the media blitz can be found, they're likely to draw plenty of conclusions from Casey's behavior and punish her to the Nth degree allowable by law. It's possible that we haven't seen much of the evidence that the prosecution has against Casey and haven't seen what will be presented by both sides in discovery, and it's possible that the death penalty will be back on the table.
Because neither attorney would be permitted to just throw out wild speulation to the jury. They have to show relevance and these computer searches would somehow need to be tied to the murder. I don't think they can do that -- with the possible exception of the chloroform. We'll have to wait for the tox results.

[Justice Denied?]

Casey Anthony's Zenaida Claim Inspired by TV Show?
Tuesday, December 23, 2008 – updated: 7:09 pm EST December 24, 2008

ORANGE COUNTY, Fla. -- Channel 9 has learned that investigators are looking at whether a popular TV show may have provided Casey Anthony with the inspiration she needed to create a story about Caylee’s disappearance.

Computer records given to Eyewitness News showed Casey did a Google search for "One Tree Hill's” 100th episode, right before Caylee disappeared.

That episode just happens to be about a nanny kidnapping a child.

Legal analyst Bill Sheaffer believes this could be a critical piece of evidence the state will use in this case against Casey.

“The story of the plot line is so similar and that is the story she originally came out (with). And it’s the story she continues and continues to stick with,” said Sheaffer.

In March, three months before Caylee disappeared, Casey’s computer records show she was researching how to make chloroform, household weapons, and neck breaking.

In between those searches Casey was looking up the 100th episode of “One Tree Hill.”

“It goes to serve two issues: one premeditation for the death of the child and two, it serves as a basis for this incredible story that the imaginary babysitter kidnapped and killed the child,” said Sheaffer.

Casey told investigators the nanny, Zenaida Gonzales, kidnapped Caylee. Detectives said they will definitely look into the information and this will most likely help in the case against Casey...


http://www.wftv.com/news/18343056/detail.html

I had never heard this piece of info before. Thanks for posting. I think the pros pretty well has premeditation rapped up.

[tv]

Because neither attorney would be permitted to just throw out wild speulation to the jury. They have to show relevance and these computer searches would somehow need to be tied to the murder. I don't think they can do that -- with the possible exception of the chloroform. We'll have to wait for the tox results.

Hi deputydi! Speaking of relevance, does anyone remember when LP said a long time ago that Casey got the name Zanny from a storybook about Zanny the nanny? Was I dreaming? :tongue:

[Justice Denied?]

In an Alford Plea, the criminal defendant does not admit the act, but admits that the prosecution could likely prove the charge. The court will pronounce the defendant guilty. The defendant may plead guilty yet not admit all the facts that comprise the crime. An Alford plea allows defendant to plead guilty even while unable or unwilling to admit guilt.

It goes into more detail at the link: http://definitions.uslegal.com/a/alford-plea/

Thanks for the good info and the link. I can't see Casey doing that. She is going to want a solution that will set her free. I doubt seriously she will take advice of council.

[Peachallie]

I think the pros pretty well has premeditation rapped up.
******************************************
Read what deputydi wrote; the state doesn't have culpable negligence wrapped up at this point.

[browneyes106]

I read about the One Tree Hill theory. I don't think there is much there. I watch the show regularly and part of the plot was that the nanny had trie to seduce the boy's father and caused problems in the parents' marriage before she kidnapped him. I think maybe Casey was plotting somehow to make Caylee "disappear" and that's why she was looking at missing children sites. Usually when tv shows make it to a 100 episodes it is considered a milestone event maybe Casey read or heard somewhere that the 100th episode would involve a kidnapping plot so she looked up info on it. But I really don't think there is much with the One Tree Hill episode.

[tv]

Thanks for the good info and the link. I can't see Casey doing that. She is going to want a solution that will set her free. I doubt seriously she will take advice of council.You're welcome, JD. :) I have to agree with you -- I don't see it happening either.

[lorettalockhorn]

I read about the One Tree Hill theory. I don't think there is much there. I watch the show regularly and part of the plot was that the nanny had trie to seduce the boy's father and caused problems in the parents' marriage before she kidnapped him. I think maybe Casey was plotting somehow to make Caylee "disappear" and that's why she was looking at missing children sites. Usually when tv shows make it to a 100 episodes it is considered a milestone event maybe Casey read or heard somewhere that the 100th episode would involve a kidnapping plot so she looked up info on it. But I really don't think there is much with the One Tree Hill episode.

After reading the two recaps that I posted, it didn't seem that the kidnapping was a major part of the storyline. Was it carried over to other episodes? I won't be surprised if the prosecution is able to narrow down these computer searches as to who was performing them, and how they may add up to intent.

At any rate, it's certainly no more outlandish a theory on the surface than a nanny who loved and cared for Caylee until one day she snapped and kidnapped her, consequently murdered her, framed Casey by using her key to the Ants' home and taking personal belongings, using the key to Casey's car to allow Caylee's body to decompose, dumping the body along with stolen personal property tying Casey to the crime, and finally disappearing off the face of the earth.

You're welcome, JD. :) I have to agree with you -- I don't see it happening either.

Me neither. Casey make things simple? I think not!

Some courts do not accept Alford pleas.

[Peachallie]

At any rate, it's certainly no more outlandish a theory on the surface than a nanny who loved and cared for Caylee until one day she snapped and kidnapped her, consequently murdered her, framed Casey by using her key to the Ants' home and taking personal belongings, using the key to Casey's car to allow Caylee's body to decompose, dumping the body along with stolen personal property tying Casey to the crime, and finally disappearing off the face of the earth.
****************************************
It is expected of the state that their theory of the case NOT resemble a defendant's panicked excuses.

There is nothing in Florida Statutes or Rules officially termed an "Alford Plea" nor does it apply in this case; here is a synopsis of the phrase:
****************************************

But the most cited and most familiar Supreme Court case on plea bargaining is North Carolina v. Alford, 400 U.S. 25 (1970). In 1970, North Carolina law provided that a penalty of life IMPRISONMENT would attach to a plea of guilty for a capital offense, but the death penalty would attach following a jury verdict of guilty (unless the jury recommended life imprisonment). Alford faced the death penalty for first-degree murder. Although he claimed innocence on all charges (in the face of strong evidence to the contrary), Alford pleaded guilty to second-degree murder prior to trial. The prosecutor accepted the plea, and he was sentenced to 30 years' imprisonment. Alford then appealed his case, claiming that his plea was involuntary because it was principally motivated by fear of the death penalty. His conviction was reversed on appeal. However, the U. S. Supreme Court held that a guilty plea which represents a voluntary and intelligent choice when considering the alternatives available to a defendant is not "compelled" within the meaning of the Fifth Amendment just because it was entered to avoid the possibility of the death penalty. (Alford had argued that his guilty plea to a lesser charge violated the Fifth Amendment's prohibition that '"No person . . . shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself.") The Supreme Court reversed the court of appeals and reinstated Alford's conviction and sentence.
*****************************************

[lorettalockhorn]

At any rate, it's certainly no more outlandish a theory on the surface than a nanny who loved and cared for Caylee until one day she snapped and kidnapped her, consequently murdered her, framed Casey by using her key to the Ants' home and taking personal belongings, using the key to Casey's car to allow Caylee's body to decompose, dumping the body along with stolen personal property tying Casey to the crime, and finally disappearing off the face of the earth.
****************************************
It is expected of the state that their theory of the case NOT resemble a defendant's panicked excuses.

There is nothing in Florida Statutes or Rules officially termed an "Alford Plea" nor does it apply in this case; here is a synopsis of the phrase:
****************************************

But the most cited and most familiar Supreme Court case on plea bargaining is North Carolina v. Alford, 400 U.S. 25 (1970). In 1970, North Carolina law provided that a penalty of life IMPRISONMENT would attach to a plea of guilty for a capital offense, but the death penalty would attach following a jury verdict of guilty (unless the jury recommended life imprisonment). Alford faced the death penalty for first-degree murder. Although he claimed innocence on all charges (in the face of strong evidence to the contrary), Alford pleaded guilty to second-degree murder prior to trial. The prosecutor accepted the plea, and he was sentenced to 30 years' imprisonment. Alford then appealed his case, claiming that his plea was involuntary because it was principally motivated by fear of the death penalty. His conviction was reversed on appeal. However, the U. S. Supreme Court held that a guilty plea which represents a voluntary and intelligent choice when considering the alternatives available to a defendant is not "compelled" within the meaning of the Fifth Amendment just because it was entered to avoid the possibility of the death penalty. (Alford had argued that his guilty plea to a lesser charge violated the Fifth Amendment's prohibition that '"No person . . . shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself.") The Supreme Court reversed the court of appeals and reinstated Alford's conviction and sentence.
*****************************************

Yes, some courts do not accept an Alford plea.

I'm confused about your opinion about what The State's theory is expected to be or not be. From what we've heard so far from document dumps and directly from the prosecution, it would appear (to me) that they are laying the ground for premeditation.

In fact, I'm bumfuzzled by many of your posts.

[Justice Denied?]

After reading the two recaps that I posted, it didn't seem that the kidnapping was a major part of the storyline. Was it carried over to other episodes? I won't be surprised if the prosecution is able to narrow down these computer searches as to who was performing them, and how they may add up to intent.

At any rate, it's certainly no more outlandish a theory on the surface than a nanny who loved and cared for Caylee until one day she snapped and kidnapped her, consequently murdered her, framed Casey by using her key to the Ants' home and taking personal belongings, using the key to Casey's car to allow Caylee's body to decompose, dumping the body along with stolen personal property tying Casey to the crime, and finally disappearing off the face of the earth.



Me neither. Casey make things simple? I think not!

Some courts do not accept Alford pleas.

When you sum it up like that, it is evem more ridiculous than it actually is. How anyone could believe a sane person would believe it is beyond me.

[Peachallie]

I'm confused about your opinion about what The State's theory is expected to be or not be. From what we've heard so far from document dumps and directly from the prosecution, it would appear (to me) that they are laying the ground for premeditation.

In fact, I'm bumfuzzled by many of your posts.
**********************************************
I write of Florida laws, criminal procedure, & cases, the statutes, rules, and prior court findings that will determine the outcome of the case. The dreaded CPC will determine the sentence.

[deputydi]

,snip>At any rate, it's certainly no more outlandish a theory on the surface than a nanny who loved and cared for Caylee until one day she snapped and kidnapped her, consequently murdered her, framed Casey by using her key to the Ants' home and taking personal belongings, using the key to Casey's car to allow Caylee's body to decompose, dumping the body along with stolen personal property tying Casey to the crime, and finally disappearing off the face of the earth.
<snip>
This would make an interesting plot for a tv movie, but there is not one single piece of evidence to support your scenario.

The nanny's fingerprints would be all over the car and she would have had to "borrow" the car more than once or have had possession of it for an extended period of time. Casey is not about to get on the stand and state, under oath, any part of this wild tale. Even Baez knows the ramifications of suborning perjury.

[Peachallie]

The state's theory MUST BE coherent & logical to make it to trial. Comparing to a defendant's version of events is not conducive to a successful result for the prosecution. So far, the state seems scatter shot in thier approach to the events.

[Gatordog]

If the prosecution is desperate enough to be offering searches of TV show plots for evidence, the defense will make mincemeat out of the case. Casey Anthony could have researched household weapons BECAUSE she saw a TV show about them; once again, breaking the neck of a two year old requires NO research.

I don't agree at all. And this defense isn't going to make mincemeat out of anyone. The prosecution didn't search this - WFTV did research on the searches which were made on the Anthony computer and WFTV told the prosecution about eppisode 100 which involved the nanny kidnapping.

I wouldn't know how to break a two year old's neck or anyone's for that matter. And, I would certainly question anyone who would look up that material.

[Gatordog]

I've listened to Kronk's first three calls several times. At no time does he say the word bag. He has something else on his mind other than a bag. He mentioned a fallen tree, a stump, a white board, a dead Eastern diamondback rattlesnake, and something else white that doesn't belong there. I believe he saw Caylee's skull. Although the story this month was that he either poked the bag with a stick or kicked the bag causing the skull to roll out, it was not said when he did the poking or kicking. That may have happened the first time he saw it in August. Only Kronk knows the truth of what he did and saw but his persistence in calling the police leads me to believe he saw something more than a bag from the beginning. If that was a dumping spot, I wouldn't have been surprised to see dozens of bags. He didn't seem to be able to give directions and place names any better than he could describe what he was calling about.

I think I can explain - the police have edited the tape for release and removed portions which are critical to the prosection.

Gator

[Gatordog]

The state's theory MUST BE coherent & logical to make it to trial. Comparing to a defendant's version of events is not conducive to a successful result for the prosecution. So far, the state seems scatter shot in thier approach to the events.

How can you come to that conclusion about the state's theory when they have kept very quiet about their strategy?

[lorettalockhorn]

This would make an interesting plot for a tv movie, but there is not one single piece of evidence to support your scenario.

The nanny's fingerprints would be all over the car and she would have had to "borrow" the car more than once or have had possession of it for an extended period of time. Casey is not about to get on the stand and state, under oath, any part of this wild tale. Even Baez knows the ramifications of suborning perjury.

I know. All the more reason for Baez and the adult Anthonys to shutttttttttttteeeeeeeeeee.

[Gatordog]

Hi deputydi! Speaking of relevance, does anyone remember when LP said a long time ago that Casey got the name Zanny from a storybook about Zanny the nanny? Was I dreaming? :tongue:

No not dreaming, they mentioned that book just this week on local news.

[Gatordog]

An man was very touched when he saw a news clip about the children at the Union Mission receiving the toys left at Caylee's memorial. he had his assistant go to Bloomingdale's and pick out 150 toys and had them wrapped and brought to the memorial. The mission picked up the toys to be given to the children. :rose:

[Gatordog]

I know. All the more reason for Baez and the adult Anthonys to shutttttttttttteeeeeeeeeee.

Loretta, I love your posts. Sort and always to the point and dead-on right! :beer:

[Peachallie]

How can you come to that conclusion about the state's theory when they have kept very quiet about their strategy?
*****************************************
They charged her with 1st, then SOON AFTER dropped death as a sentencing option. It happened too quickly to be part of a plea offer. Makes the state look WEAK. Also, the state, with all the resources at their disposal, are said to have ignored calls concerning the body, and had to rely on an accident to obtain the remains.

[deputydi]

The state's theory MUST BE coherent & logical to make it to trial. Comparing to a defendant's version of events is not conducive to a successful result for the prosecution. So far, the state seems scatter shot in thier approach to the events.
I agree with Gator. We don't really know what the state's approach is going to be. I think they have handled themselves with class.

It's impossible to know what was in Casey's head when she murdered her daughter and I don't think the pros will even attempt an explanation. Proving motive is not required. It is unlikely that a cause of death can be proven either. Proving that is not required either. There is, however, plenty of circumstantial evidence to show that Caylee put a kink in Casey's lifestyle and to show that Caylee met an untimely death at the hands of her mother. This is coherent and logical. It is something the jury will understand. Caylee didn't put herself in that bag and jump out the car window. If it was an accident, any normal person would have called 911. If a real kidnapping had occurred, a normal person would have told SOMEONE -- her best friend, her boyfriend, her mother even if she was reluctant to contact LE. A worried mother would NOT have hampered the investigation by lying again and again. The ONLY conclusion that can be reached is she was desperately trying to cover up her own crime -- her daughter died as a result of something she did to her. This is coherent and logical.

There is not one single person who can testify that Zanny exists. There are no phone calls, no text messages, no apartment where she dropped off her child, no one has ever taken a message from her or met her. Zanny is a figment of Casey's overactive imagination. This is a logical conclusion.

I don't see where a conviction is going to be difficult at all. I'd like to hear your take on it.

[deputydi]

How can you come to that conclusion about the state's theory when they have kept very quiet about their strategy?
*****************************************
They charged her with 1st, then SOON AFTER dropped death as a sentencing option. It happened too quickly to be part of a plea offer. Makes the state look WEAK. Also, the state, with all the resources at their disposal, are said to have ignored calls concerning the body, and had to rely on an accident to obtain the remains.
That was PRIOR to the body being found. They didn't drop the dp -- it was never formally announced that they were seeking it. They simiply announced that they would not be asking for a death qualified jury. It is still an option if they choose to apply it.

As for your second statement -- so what? The remains could have been found by TM's group or LP or LE or any concerned citizen. Caylee was found and that's all that matters. Orlando is a big city and Caylee's body could have been anywhere. I cannot fault LE for not being the ones who found her.

[Gatordog]

She got through 31 days of partying after killing her daughter. This woman thinks she bis smarter than everyone else. She doesn't think she'll be found guilty because she's so beautiful and charming. She thinks she can twist anyone to her way of thinking and up to now, she has.
*************************************
She is in now jail with NO BOND; she isn't getting away with ANYTHING. Her bravado will probably fade the closer she gets to facing the Judge & jury. She knows she'll be questioned about the contradictory stories which have proven false; her attorneys will prep her with expected questions, she'll read the depos of other witnesses questioned about her life, her behavior, her lies, and her hollow excuses. Maybe she think of other "beautiful" individuals sent to rot in prison. And she'll realize her looks cannot get her out of jail NOW, why would they help at TRIAL?

(I live in the rural area outside of Jacksonville)

Why would her looks help at a trial?? :confused: For real?

How about that teacher here in Florida who had sex with her student and she was found guilty. She got probation because she was "too beautiful" to go to jail. All the Liar needs to do is make eye contact and an emotional draw to one juror for a hung jury. That's what she's counting on.

Years ago Courtv had a trial from Ft Lauderdale. The woman shot her ex husband and killed him. I thought she was guilty as sin. She showed up everyday with her long, dark hair pulled back in a big bow. She wore pretty dresses and pearls. She was found not guilty. How about William Kennedy Smith, he was acquitted because one juror said he was too cute to have to rape a woman. Looks are everything. :mad:

[Lodi]

I think I can explain - the police have edited the tape for release and removed portions which are critical to the prosection.

Gator

Thank you, I wasn't aware that they did such things. I did notice a blip or two in the recording.

[Peachallie]

The no death anouncement so quickly raises questions about the strength of the state's case as to FIRST degree; I agree they can probably prove something criminal, but the case looks like agg. manslaughter & criminal acts to cover.
******************************************

Yes, some courts do not accept an Alford plea.
******************************************
"Alford plea" is a term invented by the media, a Florida JUDGE in a particular case may or may not accept a no contest plea with stip for life to avoid the possibilty of a death sentence. At this point in the Anthony case that has no relevance. The state announced they are not seeking the death sanction.

[lorettalockhorn]

I don't agree at all. And this defense isn't going to make mincemeat out of anyone. The prosecution didn't search this - WFTV did research on the searches which were made on the Anthony computer and WFTV told the prosecution about eppisode 100 which involved the nanny kidnapping.

I wouldn't know how to break a two year old's neck or anyone's for that matter. And, I would certainly question anyone who would look up that material.

At this point, the defense isn't making mincemeat out of mincemeat.

There is a lot of work to be done by both sides, and I have every faith that The State will put its case into a logical, coherent and cohesive form. The defense has some top drawer (albeit somewhat sullied to some's way of thinking) firepower. Once they hit on a defense theory that the judge will allow, it will hopefully at least be interesting and make more sense than what we've heard so far.

[lorettalockhorn]

Why would her looks help at a trial?? :confused: For real?

How about that teacher here in Florida who had sex with her student and she was found guilty. She got probation because she was "too beautiful" to go to jail. All the Liar needs to do is make eye contact and an emotional draw to one juror for a hung jury. That's what she's counting on.

Years ago Courtv had a trial from Ft Lauderdale. The woman shot her ex husband and killed him. I thought she was guilty as sin. She showed up everyday with her long, dark hair pulled back in a big bow. She wore pretty dresses and pearls. She was found not guilty. How about William Kennedy Smith, he was acquitted because one juror said he was too cute to have to rape a woman. Looks are everything. :mad:

Looks didn't help Scott Peterson. Of course, he's not quite as good looking as Dean Cain. :hat: And there is likely a double standard for men and women at the defendant's table. In the meantime, Casey might ought to lay off the pork rinds and candy. (Somebody slap me for reading what the girl eats, will ya?)

[lorettalockhorn]

LOL@fbumfuzzled!

This is from UGHingtonpost.com:

Jesse Grund: Caylee Anthony's Killer?

...Another possible culprit, however, is Casey's ex-fiance Jesse Grund. Whether Grund will be investigated himself or simply used in Casey's defense to create reasonable doubt in the mind of the jury has yet to be seen...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/22/jesse-grund-caylee-anthon_n_152818.html

[One2Snoop]

Hi Loretta, hope you and Leroy had a very merry day!

Looks didn't help Mary Letourneau orBambi Bambenek (sic) either. But, truth be told, looks seem to play a big part in this game called life. Unfair as all hell, we have these
teachers ie, Debra Lafave, getting probation for what really was rape of a child...all because they looked cute and innocent.

I think there's definately a double standard when it comes to men though....In Scott P's case, Laci's personality and beauty is what was seen, it wouldn't have mattered if he was ugly as sin or not. Bundy was decent looking and charismatic, so he got over the police at first cause he didn't 'fit' the mold...if he looked like the SOB who killed Jessica Lunsford would it have made a difference? I wonder if he would have been perceived differently at first by LE.

Might be a nice idea to let Casey eat those pork rinds...might do her good to not have much to fall on in that way when the case goes to trial. Will Jose still want her? ;)

btw ~ I am also fbumfuzzled! :biggrin:

Quite honestly I don't see Casey as being beautiful - she became ugly in my eyes the second she started lying to LE about Caylee's whereabouts.

I think Caylee will be the one to steal everyones heart - particularly if they share the "don't take my sunshine (or nan?) away video during the trial - in fact I hope the prosecution plays it from the beginning of the trial to the very end.

[Anton Chigurh]

I agree with Gator. We don't really know what the state's approach is going to be. I think they have handled themselves with class.

It's impossible to know what was in Casey's head when she murdered her daughter and I don't think the pros will even attempt an explanation. Proving motive is not required. It is unlikely that a cause of death can be proven either. Proving that is not required either. There is, however, plenty of circumstantial evidence to show that Caylee put a kink in Casey's lifestyle and to show that Caylee met an untimely death at the hands of her mother. This is coherent and logical. It is something the jury will understand. Caylee didn't put herself in that bag and jump out the car window. If it was an accident, any normal person would have called 911. If a real kidnapping had occurred, a normal person would have told SOMEONE -- her best friend, her boyfriend, her mother even if she was reluctant to contact LE. A worried mother would NOT have hampered the investigation by lying again and again. The ONLY conclusion that can be reached is she was desperately trying to cover up her own crime -- her daughter died as a result of something she did to her. This is coherent and logical.

There is not one single person who can testify that Zanny exists. There are no phone calls, no text messages, no apartment where she dropped off her child, no one has ever taken a message from her or met her. Zanny is a figment of Casey's overactive imagination. This is a logical conclusion.

I don't see where a conviction is going to be difficult at all. I'd like to hear your take on it.

Agreed with you. I am curious what prompted Caylee's missing to police and media in first place? Was it Casey's parents or Casey herself? Just want to know what made Casey went ahead to report missing child? Why didn't she wait longer? I didn't think Casey would care, but I guess her parents had something to do about having Casey reporting to police, IMO.

[Amy]

Agreed with you. I am curious what prompted Caylee's missing to police and media in first place? Was it Casey's parents or Casey herself? Just want to know what made Casey went ahead to report missing child? Why didn't she wait longer? I didn't think Casey would care, but I guess her parents had something to do about having Casey reporting to police, IMO.

Casey had no choice but to report Caylee missing--Cindy had the 911 dispatcher on the line and said her granddaughter had been missing for 30 days (or was it 31?) and put Casey on the line to fill in the details.

[Amy]

LOL@fbumfuzzled!

This is from UGHingtonpost.com:

Jesse Grund: Caylee Anthony's Killer?

...Another possible culprit, however, is Casey's ex-fiance Jesse Grund. Whether Grund will be investigated himself or simply used in Casey's defense to create reasonable doubt in the mind of the jury has yet to be seen...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/22/jesse-grund-caylee-anthon_n_152818.html

I quite imagine LE has investigated all of Casey's friends. TonE, the other police guy Rissaco or something, Jesse, Amy, the roomies and their girlfriends. They needed to check to see if Casey might have had an accomplice, and they weren't going to get info from her. Just like, I'm betting George, Cindy and Lee have all been investigated pretty thoroughly.

[Anton Chigurh]

Casey had no choice but to report Caylee missing--Cindy had the 911 dispatcher on the line and said her granddaughter had been missing for 30 days (or was it 31?) and put Casey on the line to fill in the details.

It seemed Casey still needs her parents, otherwise she could have avoid them or not to see them anymore which she could have done that, then no one beside Casey would have known Caylee is missing or dead to this date. Casey is adult and she didn't have to see or talk to her parents anymore, but she still did and I am sure her parents were asking about Caylee, so yes to that point what you said, Casey didn't have choice. I guess she didn't expect all of this, media, police, public, etc being all over her thoroughly after she confront her parents on Caylee being missing. She probably was expecting a simple report of missing child to fill out, police being dumb believing her lies, and her parents to give her more attention. (her parents are tho) Self-centered certainly describes her but it was good thing she still needs her parents, that's probably the only chance where she first got exposed, IMO.

[Gatordog]

Quite honestly I don't see Casey as being beautiful - she became ugly in my eyes the second she started lying to LE about Caylee's whereabouts.

I think Caylee will be the one to steal everyones heart - particularly if they share the "don't take my sunshine (or nan?) away video during the trial - in fact I hope the prosecution plays it from the beginning of the trial to the very end.

Hey O2S, Hope you had a nice Christmas. In my original post I didn't say she was beautiful, I said she thought she was beautiful, which is why she thinks she can get away with anything.

[Gatordog]

You are right, One2, she is Not beautiful, but if you were a man, the saying would be 'she's not a double bagger'. Once again, in this case also, it is Caylee's big beautiful eyes,that smile, her cute little girl voice, and (if used), that video, which will surely kick butt!

At that point, she (Casey) can shake her butt all she likes..it can only help the pros!

I find nothing 'endearing', even in earlier videos of Casey..remember when she put cake on Caylee's face? She seemed phoney, even then..... Probably because she was!

I wrote earlier about that cake video. The liar just repeated what her mother tried to do her. The liar often repeats or mimick's her mother. She has no idea of how to be a mother or human being for that matter so she just copies her mother. That's why poor Caylee was killed less than 12 hrs after the big fight. Once she was alone with Caylee, she reenacted the arguement but killed Caylee instead of just scaring her.

Gator

[Peachallie]

I cannot fault LE for not being the ones who found her.
*********************************************
I'm not faulting them; it makes the state look weak however. And the state announced the they would NOT pursue the death penalty, nothing said about any "death qualified jury". ALL juries picked in death cases are so qualified. See the announcement below. As I have written, I think the State should be able to convict her of agg. manslaughter AND crimes after death. This doesn't look like a 1st degree murder case. It looks like a bum who negligently allowed her child to die, tried to cover her tracks to avoid ANY punishment & made her own situation worse. She can get the equivalent of life; I do not find her looks spectacular nor do I think they make any difference. Her lack of a prior record COULD. If the state were to offer her 30 years tomorrow, she should take it.
***********************************************

The Orange County state attorney’s office said in a news release late today that “it is not in the best interest of the people of the state of Florida” to pursue the death penalty against 22-year-old Casey Anthony.

[tv]

No not dreaming, they mentioned that book just this week on local news.
Thanks, Gatordog, there are so many details in this case that my poor little brain is on overload. :)

[Peachallie]

If I were a juror, I would find her guilty on that alone.
*****************************************
The jury will be instructed as to what they are ALLOWED to consider. Wild conjecture ain't gonna be among of them. Jurors are not players in cheap TV movies, they receive EVIDENCE, LAW & INSTRUCTION. The evidence so far indicates nothing more than the death of Caylee Anthony, and wrongful acts by her mother, AFTER death.

[Peachallie]

Well here we are the pragmatist and the fool. It's a darn good thing I'm not on the jury then aye?
********************************************
Not necessarily; you would probably get REAL serious about doing your job, and might look more critically than most. I've known people who DIDN'T take much in life seriously that took their jury service to heart, and were stone face dedicated throughout the trial.

[Gatordog]

I don't know where, or how Cindy found Casey but I remember hearing that Cindy wanted to see Caylee that night and it was late. Casey told her they'd see Caylee in the morning because she was probably sleeping at the baby sitter's and asked her mother to wait. Cindy refused and wanted to go there and get Caylee. Then Casey told her Caylee's been missing for 30 days and the chit hit the fan. Cindy called 911. If I don't have this right, someone please correct me.

I also don't know the exacts about the car, how they found it why it was supposedly abandoned or who set out to find it.

I do know that Ms Casey needed her mommy and daddy to give her back her comfort zone, cable TV, private bedroom and food. That's a no brainer. Casey couldn't support herself on her best day. And the Anthony's couldn't take control of their home on THEIR best day. (That's Casey's role!)

Looks right to me. Cindy found her because she looked through the stink car and found Amy's resume. She called Amy and then picked her up at the Florida Mall and Amy was able to direct Cindy to Tony's apartment.

Makes me wonder if the Liar intended to steal Amy's identity but forgot the resume behind.

[lorettalockhorn]

If I were a juror, I would find her guilty on that alone.
*****************************************
The jury will be instructed as to what they are ALLOWED to consider. Wild conjecture ain't gonna be among of them. Jurors are not players in cheap TV movies, they receive EVIDENCE, LAW & INSTRUCTION. The evidence so far indicates nothing more than the death of Caylee Anthony, and wrongful acts by her mother, AFTER death.

Where in the world are you getting this stuff???

[Gatordog]

If I were a juror, I would find her guilty on that alone.
*****************************************
The jury will be instructed as to what they are ALLOWED to consider. Wild conjecture ain't gonna be among of them. Jurors are not players in cheap TV movies, they receive EVIDENCE, LAW & INSTRUCTION. The evidence so far indicates nothing more than the death of Caylee Anthony, and wrongful acts by her mother, AFTER death.

And did you ever hear of jury nullification?

"Nothing more than the death of Caylee Anthony"??:eek: Well how the heck do you think she got that way? It sure wasn't the tooth fairy. The only person with motive and opportunity was the woman who gave birth to her.

I've got to ask you, are you on a hunting expedition for the defense?

It's funny, a few weeks back I expressed my opinion that the location the defense would ask for to hold the trial was Jacksonville. I thought that area would be the most open minded and least biased against the Liar.

Gator

[Gatordog]

I loved your psychological profile on the mother and daughter relationship. I believe you are correct. If I were a juror, I would find her guilty on that alone.
And,, I've heard theory as to exactly when Caylee was killed but I didn't know it was in fact 12 hours after the fight. If that's true, your theory is exactly right on for the simple reason that, Caylee wasn't in her care long enough to cramp her lifestyle so that wouldn't float for motive.

Thank you, I'm not exactly sure of the time since I can't trust George's statement that he saw them last on the 16th at about 12:45 P.M. I just feel that by 3 pm, Caylee was dead. It was the first opportunity of thwm bwing alone. :(

Gator

[lorettalockhorn]

And did you ever hear of jury nullification?

"Nothing more than the death of Caylee Anthony"??:eek: Well how the heck do you think she got that way? It sure wasn't the tooth fairy. The only person with motive and opportunity was the woman who gave birth to her.

I've got to ask you, are you on a hunting expedition for the defense?

It's funny, a few weeks back I expressed my opinion that the location the defense would ask for to hold the trial was Jacksonville. I thought that area would be the most open minded and least biased against the Liar.

Gator

Well, Baez himself does tend to speak legal-babble and goes in non-sequitur fashion. Maybe Mrs. Kenney-Baden should be in charge of lurking and posting.

[browneyes106]

Looks right to me. Cindy found her because she looked through the stink car and found Amy's resume. She called Amy and then picked her up at the Florida Mall and Amy was able to direct Cindy to Tony's apartment.

Makes me wonder if the Liar intended to steal Amy's identity but forgot the resume behind.

I always wondered why Amy's resume was in the car. I think Casey could have planned to use Amy's identity which is possible since Casey used her checks.

[Justice Denied?]

Quite honestly I don't see Casey as being beautiful - she became ugly in my eyes the second she started lying to LE about Caylee's whereabouts.

I think Caylee will be the one to steal everyones heart - particularly if they share the "don't take my sunshine (or nan?) away video during the trial - in fact I hope the prosecution plays it from the beginning of the trial to the very end.

ITA. Casey is not that good looking. I hope they also show the video of Caylee reading the book and then relate the book was found in the woods near her body. That fact has really gotten to me and I am sure will get to a jury.

[Justice Denied?]

UGH! :flamemad: What a bunch of crap!! :cuss: Simple minds..........

IIRC Jessee Grund took a lie detector test right at the beginning of this case and was found to be non-deceptive. He's clear. Doesn't mean the defense won't pint at him however.

[lorettalockhorn]

It seemed Casey still needs her parents, otherwise she could have avoid them or not to see them anymore which she could have done that, then no one beside Casey would have known Caylee is missing or dead to this date. Casey is adult and she didn't have to see or talk to her parents anymore, but she still did and I am sure her parents were asking about Caylee, so yes to that point what you said, Casey didn't have choice. I guess she didn't expect all of this, media, police, public, etc being all over her thoroughly after she confront her parents on Caylee being missing. She probably was expecting a simple report of missing child to fill out, police being dumb believing her lies, and her parents to give her more attention. (her parents are tho) Self-centered certainly describes her but it was good thing she still needs her parents, that's probably the only chance where she first got exposed, IMO.

ITA. Casey is not that good looking. I hope they also show the video of Caylee reading the book and then relate the book was found in the woods near her body. That fact has really gotten to me and I am sure will get to a jury.

It's interesting that Casey seems to have no respect for LE (minimally) and utter disdain for their collective intelligence, including George, the family LE expert. Yet, he's the one who referred to her as gorgeous. What does he see in her that qualifies as gorgeous? (And wasn't Cindy's reaction to that on the videotape interesting when he characterized her as gorgeous?) I find Casey to be physically and morally unattractive, but not sure if it's because I've never seen her in any other context than baby killer.

Anyone else on pins and needles for the Anthonys to be re-interviewed and tell the truth this time? I do have doubts that George saw Casey and Caylee on the 16th.

[browneyes106]

I love the Corinthians quote too and I admit there have been times when I had to refer to it in my own life, just to remind myself that I was feeling love, or NOT. Humans are often calling something else love. We all do it.

I agree with you about the Anthony's. Certainly they were trying to keep the lid on Casey, but I can't help thinking they created the problem and thought fear would cure it. Secondly if they used their heads, they would have known she wouldn't take Caylee away because that would make the financial support stop. Casey was a lazy spoiled brat.

The problem hit when she stole from her grandmother (and thought she'd get away with it) and when Cindy's tolerance was spent, Caylee paid. Casey was vicious and I believe she killed her to make her threats materialize and to punish them. They were right to fear her.

She probably always threatened to take Caylee away from them. So right there, you are correct, JD. I think that is key, and - that question should be asked of Cindy, Lee and George at trial.

Right in my own family, I watched a child run a house since age 4 and today that child is 21 and still controls her parents. Every time I see them I know it's too late to fix and I also know when it started. They're doomed.

When I see parents cower to their children, I want to shake them till their teeth rattle. Fearing your own child does nothing for the greater good.

IMOO


I have encountered several people who allow their children to control them. My uncle pretty much allows his 10 year old son to control him. My uncle is a single parent due to divorce his ex-wife spends half the year in England because she has a child with a man from there. My uncle for the past five years overcompensates due to guilt and as a result his son controls him. My cousin also controls one of my aunts, another uncle and my grandmother. My relatives had made the big mistake of feeling too sorry for the little boy. One of my aunts pays his cell phone bill. My cousin is driven to school and picked up everyday. He never rides a school bus and isn't involved in school activies. He really has no need for a cellphone. He has very bad attitude and is hateful with the relatives that don't spoil him. I feel if my and my other relatives don't wake up and see the problem it will be too late and the child will grow up to be a manipulator and sociopath

[Amy]

Hmmm, did we hear somewhere, that Zanny the nanny was the name the younger crowd called xanax? And wasn't it mentioned somewhere that young party going mothers did use xanax to keep their children asleep while they went out to clubs? I know I heard it on one of the talking head programs, but I can't remember which head said it. I can't get that out of my head. If it's true and Casey said it, she may have kept the storyline after the remark was made to someone or a few someones. She's that stupid, that's a fact. IMO

I heard Dr Baden talking about young moms using chloroform a lot to keep their kids down for the party. He talked like it is wide-spread. @ first, I'm thinking, NAH, too dangerous, too obscure. But, I guess if Casey Anthony can google it, anyone can, and maybe it's easier to try to make it than to find prescription drugs like Xanax.

Then, I remember when my kids' 18 y/o niece was living here, it seems that prescription drugs were being sold right and left, or used in barter deals. I guess these might be working better than say, benedryl, which is actually pretty darn cheap over the counter these days.

Whether they use chloroform, Xanax or other drug, it seems a real crap shoot to determine how much should be used to keep the child down for the duration, to how much would keep the child down for an eternity.

I guess, sad as it seems, young moms out there must be using drugs as baby-sitters. It's a wonder more little kids haven't died.

[lorettalockhorn]

UGH! :flamemad: What a bunch of crap!! :cuss: Simple minds..........

Of course it's crap. I simply posted it because of the date that it was published; the 22nd. Kinda late in the game to be jumping in with a boatload of shinola.

[lorettalockhorn]

I have encountered several people who allow their children to control them. My uncle pretty much allows his 10 year old son to control him. My uncle is a single parent due to divorce his ex-wife spends half the year in England because she has a child with a man from there. My uncle for the past five years overcompensates due to guilt and as a result his son controls him. My cousin also controls one of my aunts, another uncle and my grandmother. My relatives had made the big mistake of feeling too sorry for the little boy. One of my aunts pays his cell phone bill. My cousin is driven to school and picked up everyday. He never rides a school bus and isn't involved in school activies. He really has no need for a cellphone. He has very bad attitude and is hateful with the relatives that don't spoil him. I feel if my and my other relatives don't wake up and see the problem it will be too late.

I have a nephew who was that way in grade school and middle school; once when he and My Little Love had a tiff, I told my SIL that I couldn't wait until the day that some kid who hadn't been taught to turn the other cheek knocked the peewaddle&doo out of him. It happened the first time very soon after he started jr. high and it did a world of good. He's still a creep, but lots more bearable than he was for the first half of his life.

[browneyes106]

I have never thought of Casey as a good looking. To me she has a very odd looking face.

[Amy]

It seemed Casey still needs her parents, otherwise she could have avoid them or not to see them anymore which she could have done that, then no one beside Casey would have known Caylee is missing or dead to this date. Casey is adult and she didn't have to see or talk to her parents anymore, but she still did and I am sure her parents were asking about Caylee, so yes to that point what you said, Casey didn't have choice. I guess she didn't expect all of this, media, police, public, etc being all over her thoroughly after she confront her parents on Caylee being missing. She probably was expecting a simple report of missing child to fill out, police being dumb believing her lies, and her parents to give her more attention. (her parents are tho) Self-centered certainly describes her but it was good thing she still needs her parents, that's probably the only chance where she first got exposed, IMO.

IMO, Casey would NEVER have reported Caylee missing. My point really was that, the report was initiated by Cindy, she put Casey on the line to fill out the details. If Cindy had not gotten on the line to 911, and pushed the issue, I'm guessing Casey would NOT have ever considered putting in a missing child call. I'm not sure Casey ever had a plan of what to do, of how long she would have been able to keep her parents at bay on where is Caylee.

[Justice Denied?]

Thanks, Gatordog, there are so many details in this case that my poor little brain is on overload. :)

The name of the book is "Double Trouble Squared, a Starbuck Family Adventure - Book One" by Kathryn Lasky.

[Amy]

I don't know where, or how Cindy found Casey but I remember hearing that Cindy wanted to see Caylee that night and it was late. Casey told her they'd see Caylee in the morning because she was probably sleeping at the baby sitter's and asked her mother to wait. Cindy refused and wanted to go there and get Caylee. Then Casey told her Caylee's been missing for 30 days and the chit hit the fan. Cindy called 911. If I don't have this right, someone please correct me.

I also don't know the exacts about the car, how they found it why it was supposedly abandoned or who set out to find it.

I do know that Ms Casey needed her mommy and daddy to give her back her comfort zone, cable TV, private bedroom and food. That's a no brainer. Casey couldn't support herself on her best day. And the Anthony's couldn't take control of their home on THEIR best day. (That's Casey's role!)

From what I understand, it seems that while Cindy was in the process of cleaning the car when they got it home, that she found information that enabled her to contact Amy.

They found out about the car being abandoned when they received the notice from the towyard. There was some hulabaloo about how long it took for the A's to receive the notice. According to Mr Burch the towyard guy, the notice went out per protocol (don't know how many days before they contact the owner,) and there was some discussion about the A's not getting it in a timely manner. But, there was the 4th of July holiday which would make some delay. I do remember @ one point, don't recall if it was to a reporter or on a show, but one of the A's was complaining that they would have been able to get Casey AND Caylee much earlier if the towyard had notified them right away about their car (but we all know there still would have been NO Caylee.) It was supposedly abandoned because Casey had run out of gas. I think TonE was the one who picked her up this time. Seems she had groceries? And when she asked about getting gas,whatever, she said her dad was going to take care of it.

No one set out to find it, that I know of. I'm guessing Casey didn't want it because of the smell. Maybe she tho't someone would come along and steal the car (little hard to do, if there was no gas, what car thief carries extra gas around just in case the car he's stealing is out?) And, if the car was already starting to smell, who would want to steal a car no one could stand to be in?

I don't think the A's were looking for the car, because it seems they seemed to think Casey was still driving it around. They had no idea it had been abandoned until they received the notice.

[Peachallie]

Well how the heck do you think she got that way? It sure wasn't the tooth fairy. The only person with motive and opportunity was the woman who gave birth to her.

I've got to ask you, are you on a hunting expedition for the defense?

It's funny, a few weeks back I expressed my opinion that the location the defense would ask for to hold the trial was Jacksonville. I thought that area would be the most open minded and least biased against the Liar.
Well how the heck do you think she got that way? It sure wasn't the tooth fairy. The only person with motive and opportunity was the woman who gave birth to her.

It's funny, a few weeks back I expressed my opinion that the location the defense would ask for to hold the trial was Jacksonville. I thought that area would be the most open minded and least biased against the Liar.

************************************************

I "get" what I write from the law & the facts, not daydreams;

1. The evidence shows nothing more than gross negligence(.) That is enough to put Casey Anthony away for THIRTY YEARS, PLUS 30 or MORE on the other charges. The endless conjecture will NOT be allowed at trial, and, the state dropped the possibility of the death penalty almost certainly because they knew they couldn't prove it.

2. Jacksonville is a VERY conservative area of Florida; Anthony's chance at acquittal isn't great in this area, or anywhere else for that matter, UNLESS the state goes for a conviction they cannot prove. The state should play it safe, and go for what they can get. I'm gonna list the current charges now & max sentences:


A. Murder 1st-LIFE, (includes lesser Agg. Manslaughter of a child-30 years)

B. 10 counts of forgery, 5 years a piece.

C. 1 misdeamenor false report-1 year.

The best defense Anthony has is getting the prosecution to waste time on bizarre theories that cannot be proven; the valid offenses may slip by the jury's notice.

I though it was a possible 90 years if convicted of the check charges, it is 91.

[Amy]

If I were a juror, I would find her guilty on that alone.
*****************************************
The jury will be instructed as to what they are ALLOWED to consider. Wild conjecture ain't gonna be among of them. Jurors are not players in cheap TV movies, they receive EVIDENCE, LAW & INSTRUCTION. The evidence so far indicates nothing more than the death of Caylee Anthony, and wrongful acts by her mother, AFTER death.

That is, what evidence has been put forth to the public. We shall see, when the trial comes about what evidence they have that will point to murder in the first.

[Amy]

Of course it's crap. I simply posted it because of the date that it was published; the 22nd. Kinda late in the game to be jumping in with a boatload of shinola.

But it is something Cindy was trying to get the FBI to take. She was telling them how she tho't (by the clues Casey had left and said to her in the call and visit) that Zanny could be Jesse or Amy. Maybe the defense team is going to try to throw that spaghetti on the wall in front of jurors, to see it sticks. As they say, it only takes one juror to pick up some of the spaghetti and hand the jury.

[Peachallie]

And did you ever hear of jury nullification?
************************************
Some people I know picked up THAT phrase from the O.J. Simpson trial; in Florida the term used is "jury pardon". I see little chance of that, Casey Anthony is NOT a sympathetic defendant.
************************************
I've got to ask you, are you on a hunting expedition for the defense?
************************************
No, I'm analyzing the situation, not trying to prove I'm "against" the death of innocent children. Almost all people ARE. Many of the posts are endless restatements of an issue where there IS no moral opposition; Casey Anthony appears to have been a sad excuse for a mother, her daughter is now dead. Connecting the two is the State's job, and determining the DEGREE of criminal responsibility.

[lorettalockhorn]

Well how the heck do you think she got that way? It sure wasn't the tooth fairy. The only person with motive and opportunity was the woman who gave birth to her.

I've got to ask you, are you on a hunting expedition for the defense?

It's funny, a few weeks back I expressed my opinion that the location the defense would ask for to hold the trial was Jacksonville. I thought that area would be the most open minded and least biased against the Liar.
Well how the heck do you think she got that way? It sure wasn't the tooth fairy. The only person with motive and opportunity was the woman who gave birth to her.

It's funny, a few weeks back I expressed my opinion that the location the defense would ask for to hold the trial was Jacksonville. I thought that area would be the most open minded and least biased against the Liar.

************************************************

I "get" what I write from the law & the facts, not daydreams;

1. The evidence shows nothing more than gross negligence(.) That is enough to put Casey Anthony away for THIRTY YEARS, PLUS 30 or MORE on the other charges. The endless conjecture will NOT be allowed at trial, and, the state dropped the possibility of the death penalty almost certainly because they knew they couldn't prove it.

2. Jacksonville is a VERY conservative area of Florida; Anthony's chance at acquittal isn't great in this area, or anywhere else for that matter, UNLESS the state goes for a conviction they cannot prove. The state should play it safe, and go for what they can get. I'm gonna list the current charges now & max sentences:


A. Murder 1st-LIFE, (includes lesser Agg. Manslaughter of a child-30 years)

B. 10 counts of forgery, 5 years a piece.

C. 1 misdeamenor false report-1 year.

The best defense Anthony has is getting the prosecution to waste time on bizarre theories that cannot be proven; the valid offenses may slip by the jury's notice.

I though it was a possible 90 years if convicted of the check charges, it is 91.

1. When you quote someone, would you do us a teeny tiny favor and actually click the "quote" button? TYIA

2. When you cite facts, would you do us a teeny tiny favor and state it as a fact if it indeed is, and/or include a link? On most forums I've noticed that everything else is considered the opinion of the author or conjecture of some sort. Exceptions to that would be items that have been discussed ad nauseum, ad infinitum. TYIA

3. RE: That second point of yours about the chances of acquittal; do you have a link to some sort of poll, focus group, or whatever? TYIA

[lorettalockhorn]

And did you ever hear of jury nullification?
************************************
Some people I know picked up THAT phrase from the O.J. Simpson trial; in Florida the term used is "jury pardon". I see little chance of that, Casey Anthony is NOT a sympathetic defendant.
************************************
I've got to ask you, are you on a hunting expedition for the defense?
************************************
No, I'm analyzing the situation, not trying to prove I'm "against" the death of innocent children. Almost all people ARE. Many of the posts are endless restatements of an issue where there IS no moral opposition; Casey Anthony appears to have been a sad excuse for a mother, her daughter is now dead. Connecting the two is the State's job, and determining the DEGREE of criminal responsibility.

Honestly, I would consider the determination of the DEGREE of criminal responsibility to be the job of the jury, but I'm in no way trying to pass myself off as some kind of shade tree legal/defense expert.

[Amy]

Okay, this is the pic I brought up for my 18 y/o son and his 20 y/o friend to view:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/crime/orl-caseyanthony20081009152639,0,377091.photo

If ya can't see it (I suck @ doing the link thing) it's the one where she is in either denim short-shorts or denim very mini skirt and a fitted blue blouse.

Their eyes popped out!!! "She's cute!!!" "She's HOT!!!!" They wanted to know who she is, and I said a girl in FL who is in jail for killing her almost 3 y/o daughter. They weren't so excited once I said that, but said that did not change her looks, but they wouldn't want to date her!!!

[lorettalockhorn]

But it is something Cindy was trying to get the FBI to take. She was telling them how she tho't (by the clues Casey had left and said to her in the call and visit) that Zanny could be Jesse or Amy. Maybe the defense team is going to try to throw that spaghetti on the wall in front of jurors, to see it sticks. As they say, it only takes one juror to pick up some of the spaghetti and hand the jury.


From Richard Grund's myspace blog:

...The following is a December 22, 2008 post on The Huffington Post
Jesse Grund: Caylee Anthony's Killer?
After over 5-months, this kind of slanderous, irresponsible stuff is still going on. This is the reason we speak out and appear on various shows - to counter and combat this kind of "reporting". This is also why there is a lawyer, Darryl Cohen, in the mix now to handle this and the deluge of media requests I've been fielding for both Jesse and I for all these months. Meekness means controlled power. It does not mean allowing yourself to be victimized or attacked. Meekness means you calmly pick and chose how and when to respond. The time is coming, and almost is, to draw the Sword and respond...

http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=85212505&blogID=458764355

An email attributed to Richard Grund (posted on another board):

Thanks for the insight. I understand now where Ariana Huffington got it from. Ariana is a big supporter of the Gay Community and Michelle Bart is a supporter and a member of that community actually.
I have sent the link to our lawyer but if we can connect Michelle Bart to it we can connect Cindy Anthony to it. All of the slander and defamatory statements against Jesse trace back to Cindy. The lawyers, the private investigators all got it from Cindy according to Leonard Padilla.

Tell the community for me that I appreciate their zeal and promise that it will be taken care of. After the funeral I am going to publicly request an apology and recanting of their statements from the Anthony's. If they do not do so I will have no choice to pursue legal action to clear Jesse's and our family name and will have done everything possible to take care of this in a cordial, Christian manner.

I can tell you that certain other investigative groups and members of the legal community (without naming names) are not letting this rest and are pursuing the truth about the Anthony's involvement in this case and a potential cover-up. From what I have heard from a well place news producer of a major network news show, law enforcement has enough evidence to pursue obstruction of justice and impeding an investigation charge and have a charge ready to go if the Anthony's continue to act as they have it will come down at the appropriate time.

Thanks again and God bless!

Michelle Bart's contributions to the Huffington Post:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/searchG/?cx=partner-pub-3264687723376607%3Atlvacw-gkue&cof=FORID%3A11&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=%22michelle+bart%22#1487

Is Cindy using her crony Michelle to libel Jesse Grund? Has the editor of The Huffington Post lost his/her mind allowing wikipedia to be used as a bona fide source??

[lorettalockhorn]

Okay, this is the pic I brought up for my 18 y/o son and his 20 y/o friend to view:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/crime/orl-caseyanthony20081009152639,0,377091.photo

If ya can't see it (I suck @ doing the link thing) it's the one where she is in either denim short-shorts or denim very mini skirt and a fitted blue blouse.

Their eyes popped out!!! "She's cute!!!" "She's HOT!!!!" They wanted to know who she is, and I said a girl in FL who is in jail for killing her almost 3 y/o daughter. They weren't so excited once I said that, but said that did not change her looks, but they wouldn't want to date her!!!

What's truly amazing about your experiment is that they didn't recognize her!!!

[Peachallie]

I cut & past so as to not repeat non relevant info.
*******************************************

3. RE: That second point of yours about the chances of acquittal; do you have a link to some sort of poll, focus group, or whatever? TYIA
*******************************************
ONCE AGAIN, analysis of Florida law & the facts* leads to my belief Casey Anthony will PROBABLY be found guilty of an offense in connection with her daughter's death. Polls, focus groups, and "whatever" are not allowed in the US justice system, your country is obviously different. Casey Anthony is charged under Florida law, and will be tried in a Florida court. If convicted she will be sentenced in accordance with Florida sentencing laws.


*FACTS, not speculation about TV shows or internet searches.

[lorettalockhorn]

I cut & past so as to not repeat non relevant info.
*******************************************

3. RE: That second point of yours about the chances of acquittal; do you have a link to some sort of poll, focus group, or whatever? TYIA
*******************************************
ONCE AGAIN, analysis of Florida law & the facts* leads to my belief Casey Anthony will PROBABLY be found guilty of an offense in connection with her daughter's death. Polls, focus groups, and "whatever" are not allowed in the US justice system, your country is obviously different. Casey Anthony is charged under Florida law, and will be tried in a Florida court. If convicted she will be sentenced in accordance with Florida sentencing laws.


*FACTS, not speculation about TV shows or internet searches.

I am begging you in the name of all that is holy and proper netiquette to use the quote button. I (and I assume most others) am capable of deciding for myself what is relevant and/or non-relevant about someone's post. The least that you could do is snip the post. The point is, if you will use the quote button, everyone will be able to click on the original post and see it in context. Which is most important when posts are late, or out of order, or are just simply difficult to follow. You can always bold or italicize what is relevant to your response. TYIA

Okay, gotcha. Some of what you state as fact is actually your analysis of whatever. Kinda thought so.

Carry on.

[Peachallie]

Honestly, I would consider the determination of the DEGREE of criminal responsibility to be the job of the jury, but I'm in no way trying to pass myself off as some kind of shade tree legal/defense expert.
*******************************************
Ok, the state state determines what they will present to the jury, the defense may argue for "lesser includeds", the state may acquiesce or argue against those instructions. The judge makes the decision on what will be submitted to the jury. Juries do not have unfettered discretion to consider charges OR return verdicts as they wish. If a jury is instructed on several degrees of a crime or crimes, they must of render a verdict on any charge submitted to them. This allows the jury to CHOOSE.

[lorettalockhorn]

*******************************************
Ok, the state state determines what they will present to the jury, the defense may argue for "lesser includeds", the state may acquiesce or argue against those instructions. The judge makes the decision on what will be submitted to the jury. Juries do not have unfettered discretion to consider charges OR return verdicts as they wish. If a jury is instructed on several degrees of a crime or crimes, they must of render a verdict on any charge submitted to them. This allows the jury to CHOOSE.

:seeya:

I guess at this point we are arguing semantics. We're probably all aware of the roles and responsibilities of The State, the defense, the judge, the importance of instructions, definitions, etc. But the decision including the degree of responsibility of the defendant is still in the hands of jurors; the exception to that being that the judge specifically disallows the panel from from finding for lesser offense(s), or hamstrings them on any other specific matter.

[Justice Denied?]

LOL!! Yer gooood! :)

I have always thought that Casey intended to disappear completely and let the Anthonys think that something horrible happened to both her and Caylee. After all, she left her purse and some old ID in the car.

[Peachallie]

:seeya:
I guess at this point we are arguing semantics. We're probably all aware of the roles and responsibilities of The State, the defense, the judge, the importance of instructions, definitions, etc. But the decision including the degree of responsibility of the defendant is still in the hands of jurors; the exception to that being that the judge specifically disallows the panel from from finding for lesser offense(s), or hamstrings them on any other specific matter.
*******************************************
Such a sad situation, a helpless child never wanted in life except by her one set of grandparents. And they torn between responsibity to her & hope the useless child of theirs would grow up. Now, they are left with a selfish adult child, who still seems to feel SHE is the victim. No verdict can make things right.*

(*Once again, my personal feelings are that 50 in Lowell for Casey Anderson would not be unjust. That could change of course.)

[Gatordog]

And did you ever hear of jury nullification?
************************************
Some people I know picked up THAT phrase from the O.J. Simpson trial; in Florida the term used is "jury pardon". I see little chance of that, Casey Anthony is NOT a sympathetic defendant.
************************************
I've got to ask you, are you on a hunting expedition for the defense?
************************************
No, I'm analyzing the situation, not trying to prove I'm "against" the death of innocent children. Almost all people ARE. Many of the posts are endless restatements of an issue where there IS no moral opposition; Casey Anthony appears to have been a sad excuse for a mother, her daughter is now dead. Connecting the two is the State's job, and determining the DEGREE of criminal responsibility.

I've heard the term jury nullification here in Florida. I've got to tell you that some of your statements are not reasonable to me.

[Gatordog]

LOL!! Yer gooood! :)

Amazing what a little Hagnog can do :D

[Gatordog]

If I were a juror, I would find her guilty on that alone.
*****************************************
The jury will be instructed as to what they are ALLOWED to consider. Wild conjecture ain't gonna be among of them. Jurors are not players in cheap TV movies, they receive EVIDENCE, LAW & INSTRUCTION. The evidence so far indicates nothing more than the death of Caylee Anthony, and wrongful acts by her mother, AFTER death.

Okay, so jurors are supposed to follow the rules as given by the judge. Can you tell me what rule permitted a juror to find William Kennedy Smith not guilty of rape because "he was too cute to have to rape a woman"? That was said by one of his juror, a blond woman about 40 yrs old, after the trial. What instruction does that fall under?

[Peachallie]

Okay, so jurors are supposed to follow the rules as given by the judge. Can you tell me what rule permitted a juror to find William Kennedy Smith not guilty of rape because "he was too cute to have to rape a woman"? That was said by one of his juror, a blond woman about 40 yrs old, after the trial. What instruction does that fall under?
**********************************************
It falls under PROSECUTION'S MISTAKE and/or minds dulled by too many TV movies. That case seemed VERY weak; the question that could be asked is: had his name not been Kennedy, would the charge have been reported and filed?

Perhaps the victim's admission at trial she had concealed details from the prosecution in order to sell her story for $40,000 had something to do with the verdict? JUST MAYBE.

[lorettalockhorn]

**********************************************
It falls under PROSECUTION'S MISTAKE and/or minds dulled by too many TV movies. That case seemed VERY weak; the question that could be asked is: had his name not been Kennedy, would the charge have been reported and filed?

Perhaps the victim's admission at trial she had concealed details from the prosecution in order to sell her story for $40,000 had something to do with the verdict? JUST MAYBE.

Sheesh sounds almost like you think because he has Kennedy in his name he should be able to get away with a crime. How many rapes go unreported because of archaic laws, sexism, double standards, and the horrors of retelling and reliving the experience?

Are you absolutely positively sure that the not guilty verdict wasn't because the defense made its client look cute in the courtroom (to that juror anyway)?

[javahog]

Casey Anthony's Zenaida Claim Inspired by TV Show?
Tuesday, December 23, 2008 – updated: 7:09 pm EST December 24, 2008

ORANGE COUNTY, Fla. -- Channel 9 has learned that investigators are looking at whether a popular TV show may have provided Casey Anthony with the inspiration she needed to create a story about Caylee’s disappearance.

Computer records given to Eyewitness News showed Casey did a Google search for "One Tree Hill's” 100th episode, right before Caylee disappeared.

That episode just happens to be about a nanny kidnapping a child.

Legal analyst Bill Sheaffer believes this could be a critical piece of evidence the state will use in this case against Casey.

“The story of the plot line is so similar and that is the story she originally came out (with). And it’s the story she continues and continues to stick with,” said Sheaffer.

In March, three months before Caylee disappeared, Casey’s computer records show she was researching how to make chloroform, household weapons, and neck breaking.

In between those searches Casey was looking up the 100th episode of “One Tree Hill.”

“It goes to serve two issues: one premeditation for the death of the child and two, it serves as a basis for this incredible story that the imaginary babysitter kidnapped and killed the child,” said Sheaffer.

Casey told investigators the nanny, Zenaida Gonzales, kidnapped Caylee. Detectives said they will definitely look into the information and this will most likely help in the case against Casey...


http://www.wftv.com/news/18343056/detail.html

Not just a(n alleged) murderer and liar but a plegairist?! (hey, whatever happened to that rolling laughing santa smily?)

I hope everyone had a wonderful Christmas!

[Peachallie]

Anthony is probably just a scuzzy party rat too busy planning her next night of wandering through the bars to care for the child's life she was responsible for. Hard to imagine such a self centered, self absorbed zero planning anything. Had her negligence caused her own death few would have known or noticed.

[javahog]

Anthony is probably just a scuzzy party rat too busy planning her next night of wandering through the bars to care for the child's life she was responsible for. Hard to imagine such a self centered, self absorbed zero planning anything. Had her negligence caused her own death few would have known or noticed.

The thing is, some planning would have to be in progress here over time...when everyone thought that Caylee was with the nanny, and she wasn't with Cindy and George, where was she? (One problem would be that Caylee was getting to a more verbal stage and might be able to say what all was going on...motive?). If someone was mixing their own chloroform, that takes not only a lot of planning but thought and work. My understanding (never having made my own, of course, since normal people don't do that) is that it is actually explosive or flammable if not kept at very specific temperatures at time in the process. It is hard to believe that a skank bar rat could do these things, but...evidence suggests that indeed it happened, all imo...

[lorettalockhorn]

Nancy Grace is replaying the police tapes with Casey from early on, and she is talking about how during that one phone call that she had with Caylee, Caylee is talking about the book that they had pictures or videos of her reading, and that Caylee is telling her the story. So is she laying the groundwork for the book to have been found with Caylee's remains? Do we know if the book that we've seen the video of so often actually was found at the disposal scene?

[lorettalockhorn]

The thing is, some planning would have to be in progress here over time...when everyone thought that Caylee was with the nanny, and she wasn't with Cindy and George, where was she? (One problem would be that Caylee was getting to a more verbal stage and might be able to say what all was going on...motive?). If someone was mixing their own chloroform, that takes not only a lot of planning but thought and work. My understanding (never having made my own, of course, since normal people don't do that) is that it is actually explosive or flammable if not kept at very specific temperatures at time in the process. It is hard to believe that a skank bar rat could do these things, but...evidence suggests that indeed it happened, all imo...

It's hard to imagine where Caylee ever was when Casey was "at work". Was she just being dragged from pillar to post all day? And doesn't it seem like if Caylee had been being drugged for weeks, months, or years that there would have been some signs or symptoms that someone/anyone would have noticed? Lethargy? Dilated pupils? Decreased appetite? Loss of motor function? Something??

Not sure about the dangers of homemade chloroform, but I'm pretty wary of mixing household chemicals. For instance I always ALWAYS flush the terlits a couple of times after I scrub them on Porcelain Tuesday before I let anyone go #1. I've heard it could explode from the combination of chlorine and ammonia.

[Peachallie]

I've heard the term jury nullification here in Florida. I've got to tell you that some of your statements are not reasonable to me.

********************************************
That's the law; reason is only part of it. Cumbersome at times, and often awkward. Still, it is the best system humans have ever developed, or so I believe.

[mu8shark]

Yes, on Dec. 11 he picked up the bag or kicked the bag and the skull came out. I don't think the skull was out of the bag in August and went back in the bag. We have also heard the bag was gray and or white back in August. :shrug:No I guess I did not make it really clear. I am thinking since in Aug on one of the calls he said he saw something white with the bag , you know in the back of his mind he may have thought you never know that could a skull or bones or something,, it is near the Anthony home and I better call. I don't for a minute think he got close enough to see anything , kind of meant he may have kind of had that in his subconscious. And for the record I see nothing suspicious or hinky about the meter guy or the fact that police did not check out a low level tip that well esp when they had over 100 areas to look at.

[Peachallie]

It's hard to imagine where Caylee ever was when Casey was "at work". Was she just being dragged from pillar to post all day? And doesn't it seem like if Caylee had been being drugged for weeks, months, or years that there would have been some signs or symptoms that someone/anyone would have noticed? Lethargy? Dilated pupils? Decreased appetite? Loss of motor function? Something??

Not sure about the dangers of homemade chloroform, but I'm pretty wary of mixing household chemicals. For instance I always ALWAYS flush the terlits a couple of times after I scrub them on Porcelain Tuesday before I let anyone go #1. I've heard it could explode from the combination of chlorine and ammonia.

********************************************
Left with her parents or whom ever she could find whenever she could find a party to go to. Had the nanny story been true it still seems neglectful; why would someone who didn't work or go to school NEED a nanny? As Cindy Anthony refused to use her remaining time off work so Casey Anthony could go on "vacation", it appears the grandparents were called upon frequently. Casey Anthony is a BUM, she lived off her parents and what she could beg & steal from her friends.

[javahog]

It's hard to imagine where Caylee ever was when Casey was "at work". Was she just being dragged from pillar to post all day? And doesn't it seem like if Caylee had been being drugged for weeks, months, or years that there would have been some signs or symptoms that someone/anyone would have noticed? Lethargy? Dilated pupils? Decreased appetite? Loss of motor function? Something??

Not sure about the dangers of homemade chloroform, but I'm pretty wary of mixing household chemicals. For instance I always ALWAYS flush the terlits a couple of times after I scrub them on Porcelain Tuesday before I let anyone go #1. I've heard it could explode from the combination of chlorine and ammonia.

I suspect that "Zenaida" is a nickname for the trunk of the car, but I know there are problems with that. First, wouldn't someone have noticed...something? Now, my 3 year old, when he falls asleep, he doesn't wake up until 7 am, so maybe Caylee was asleep in the trunk of the car. Maybe woke up once and got hysterical, hence the "need" for chloroform? 2) It seems hard to believe that she could have been regularly chloroformed and not have bad signs of this. I wonder if anyone has studies of the results of excessive and frequent chloroforming? I imagine its not likely, since again, normal people don't do this. (you'd be surprised how often Benadryl is recommended for making kids sleep on a baby site I go to, though...I wonder if they have any records of the Mommy of the Year buying Benadryl in excessive amounts?)

I would be happy to be a guest at your house. Its nice to know you wouldn't want me to blow up on the "terlit"!

[javahog]

********************************************
That's the law; reason is only part of it. Cumbersome at times, and often awkward. Still, it is the best system humans have ever developed, or so I believe.

I don't know...trial by combat can have its merits....

[Gatordog]

Nancy Grace is replaying the police tapes with Casey from early on, and she is talking about how during that one phone call that she had with Caylee, Caylee is talking about the book that they had pictures or videos of her reading, and that Caylee is telling her the story. So is she laying the groundwork for the book to have been found with Caylee's remains? Do we know if the book that we've seen the video of so often actually was found at the disposal scene?

Speculation but no confirmation. I enjoyed NG tonight. No questions or opinions, just tapes.

Gator

[Peachallie]

The thing is, some planning would have to be in progress here over time...when everyone thought that Caylee was with the nanny, and she wasn't with Cindy and George, where was she? (One problem would be that Caylee was getting to a more verbal stage and might be able to say what all was going on...motive?). If someone was mixing their own chloroform, that takes not only a lot of planning but thought and work. My understanding (never having made my own, of course, since normal people don't do that) is that it is actually explosive or flammable if not kept at very specific temperatures at time in the process. It is hard to believe that a skank bar rat could do these things, but...evidence suggests that indeed it happened, all imo...

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The sale is restricted but Casey Anthony could have gotten some from a fellow bar rat that also used it illegally to knock kids out. Farm supply places have things with chloroform in them, even more dangerous than straight chloroform. Possibly one of her scuzzy friends "shared"; it appears Anthony would stoop to low levels to be out at the bars.

[mu8shark]

I've heard the term jury nullification here in Florida. I've got to tell you that some of your statements are not reasonable to me. Peach, Let me just jump in here on jury nullification and tell you that as another poster so astutely pointed out, Casey is not a sympathetic defendant and generally, juries will do jury nullification if for instance they think situation warrants it with a sympathetic defendant. Let's say a father has a child who is raped by someone and the father goes into rage and kills that person , jurors have been known to occasionally decide, damn the law, I can see myself in that horrible situation and they might vote for a lesser or acquit. Or if someone is being charged in a case where jurors think the law is outdated or just plain wrong. I have to tell you that jurors are not going to look at this woman who waited 30 days to report her child and partied her ass off and think, "Hm well , let's cut her some slack, I would have done that myself.' I am not saying they are going to convict her on just those two things but jury nullification is rare and makes no sense in this case. And they won't nullify because they think it is a bad law to punish someone for leaving a child in the trunk and gassing her and leaving her body in the weeds, so under what point would the jury nullify the charges and acquit. It is much more likely that they will have some difficulty with the degree of homicide.

[Peachallie]

I don't know...trial by combat can have its merits....

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Litigation is more fun, it is more brutal also. ; )

[lorettalockhorn]

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Left with her parents or whom ever she could find whenever she could find a party to go to. Had the nanny story been true it still seems neglectful; why would someone who didn't work or go to school NEED a nanny? As Cindy Anthony refused to use her remaining time off work so Casey Anthony could go on "vacation", it appears the grandparents were called upon frequently. Casey Anthony is a BUM, she lived off her parents and what she could beg & steal from her friends.

Javahog specifically mentioned/stated that Caylee was not with G&C. *swears under her breath* We know she didn't need a nanny. We know she didn't have a job. We know that G&C should have been able to figure out that she didn't have a job. We know the whole effing household is a dysfunctional snake pit. Still, the question remains; where was Caylee while Casey was being a flibbertygibbet eight hours or more a day?

I suspect that "Zenaida" is a nickname for the trunk of the car, but I know there are problems with that. First, wouldn't someone have noticed...something? Now, my 3 year old, when he falls asleep, he doesn't wake up until 7 am, so maybe Caylee was asleep in the trunk of the car. Maybe woke up once and got hysterical, hence the "need" for chloroform? 2) It seems hard to believe that she could have been regularly chloroformed and not have bad signs of this. I wonder if anyone has studies of the results of excessive and frequent chloroforming? I imagine its not likely, since again, normal people don't do this. (you'd be surprised how often Benadryl is recommended for making kids sleep on a baby site I go to, though...I wonder if they have any records of the Mommy of the Year buying Benadryl in excessive amounts?)

I would be happy to be a guest at your house. Its nice to know you wouldn't want me to blow up on the "terlit"!

It's been a while since chloroform was used for anesthesia, but it is a known carcinogen (not sure if it's flammable), so it's use was discontinued. I see people joking all the time about giving kids an extra dose of Benadryl to make them sleep. :(

tehee Was it Archie Bunker who used to say "terlit"?

[mu8shark]

Sheesh sounds almost like you think because he has Kennedy in his name he should be able to get away with a crime. How many rapes go unreported because of archaic laws, sexism, double standards, and the horrors of retelling and reliving the experience?

Are you absolutely positively sure that the not guilty verdict wasn't because the defense made its client look cute in the courtroom (to that juror anyway)? One thing I do not like about our system is that some jurors really buy into the theory if you are famous you get a different system. Fame and fortune can defintely buy justice and just my two cents, the Kennedy mystique has kind of been overblown and was then,, Now we have Caroline Kennedy stumping to be named a Senator because she is famous and her Mom and Dad were, no experience understand, she is just famous. I don't think W K Smith was prosecuted because he was famous, he did get off because of that. He has since settled quite a few lawsuits for his bad behavior with woman.

[Justice Denied?]

Nancy Grace is replaying the police tapes with Casey from early on, and she is talking about how during that one phone call that she had with Caylee, Caylee is talking about the book that they had pictures or videos of her reading, and that Caylee is telling her the story. So is she laying the groundwork for the book to have been found with Caylee's remains? Do we know if the book that we've seen the video of so often actually was found at the disposal scene?

Sure sounds like she was laying groundwork to me. I don't think its been verified that it was the same book, but judging by the pictures it just about had to be.

[javahog]

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Litigation is more fun, it is more brutal also. ; )

Not if Fred Goldman got a chance at OJ in the Thunderdome... :chicken:

[deacon]

You are right, One2, she is Not beautiful, but if you were a man, the saying would be 'she's not a double bagger'. Once again, in this case also, it is Caylee's big beautiful eyes,that smile, her cute little girl voice, and (if used), that video, which will surely kick butt!

At that point, she (Casey) can shake her butt all she likes..it can only help the pros!

I find nothing 'endearing', even in earlier videos of Casey..remember when she put cake on Caylee's face? She seemed phoney, even then..... Probably because she was!

Well, I am a man and learned a really long time ago:

Beauty is only skin deep but ugly is slam to the bone.

She is uggggggggggggly

[Gatordog]

The Anthonys have removed all the signs and pictures from their house and cars. Still no date for a second examination of the remains or burial.

The only time they have been seen was leaving for chuch on Sunday morning. I bet the only one who enjoyed their Christmas dinner was the Liar.

Gator

[Peachallie]

Sheesh sounds almost like you think because he has Kennedy in his name he should be able to get away with a crime. How many rapes go unreported because of archaic laws, sexism, double standards, and the horrors of retelling and reliving the experience?

Are you absolutely positively sure that the not guilty verdict wasn't because the defense made its client look cute in the courtroom (to that juror anyway)?

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Nope. The victim wasn't credible. On the stand she admitted withholding evidence from the prosecution in order to SELL a story. SHE is lucky she wasn't prosecuted, assuming she wasn't. There was also evidence she fabricated the entire complaint, she ran her mouth to a friend. I am aware of a case wherein the state DID file charges after the "victim" remembered she had given her husband permission to cash a check; she had originally filed a complaint for forgery. Filing criminal charges isn't a game, withholding evidence from the prosecution is despicable.


(see also Casey Anthony, CHARGED with giving false information to the police. )

[javahog]

One thing I do not like about our system is that some jurors really buy into the theory if you are famous you get a different system. Fame and fortune can defintely buy justice and just my two cents, the Kennedy mystique has kind of been overblown and was then,, Now we have Caroline Kennedy stumping to be named a Senator because she is famous and her Mom and Dad were, no experience understand, she is just famous. I don't think W K Smith was prosecuted because he was famous, he did get off because of that. He has since settled quite a few lawsuits for his bad behavior with woman.

This might be one of the problems with the 24 hour news cycle. More often, instead of just worrying about celebs committing crimes, now the commission of crimes creates celebs. I mean, Casey Anthony (still alleged, of course) is darn famous! Will it affect her trial? Of course, for good or ill. It will make the prosecution fear losing so public a case so it changes their plan, the defense will be trying to move the trial all over and claim that there is nowhere a fair jury can be found, no doubt it'll all create possibilities for appeals...and then someone will suggest tracking down and suing people who discussed the case online (remember ANS? use those imos, allegeds and moos, folks!)

(and as for CK, no offense, lady, but this is either a republic or a democracy, depending on definition, not a monarchy!)

Arrgh.

[Gatordog]

Peach, Let me just jump in here on jury nullification and tell you that as another poster so astutely pointed out, Casey is not a sympathetic defendant and generally, juries will do jury nullification if for instance they think situation warrants it with a sympathetic defendant. Let's say a father has a child who is raped by someone and the father goes into rage and kills that person , jurors have been known to occasionally decide, damn the law, I can see myself in that horrible situation and they might vote for a lesser or acquit. Or if someone is being charged in a case where jurors think the law is outdated or just plain wrong. I have to tell you that jurors are not going to look at this woman who waited 30 days to report her child and partied her ass off and think, "Hm well , let's cut her some slack, I would have done that myself.' I am not saying they are going to convict her on just those two things but jury nullification is rare and makes no sense in this case. And they won't nullify because they think it is a bad law to punish someone for leaving a child in the trunk and gassing her and leaving her body in the weeds, so under what point would the jury nullify the charges and acquit. It is much more likely that they will have some difficulty with the degree of homicide.

Hi Shark, I didn't mean to suggest jury nullification in this case - Peach was stating that jurors have to follow the law as given to them by the judge and I was trying to make the point that jurors will not necessarily follow the rules as given, but would also use their logic, and common sense and emotion.

Gator

[lorettalockhorn]

One thing I do not like about our system is that some jurors really buy into the theory if you are famous you get a different system. Fame and fortune can defintely buy justice and just my two cents, the Kennedy mystique has kind of been overblown and was then,, Now we have Caroline Kennedy stumping to be named a Senator because she is famous and her Mom and Dad were, no experience understand, she is just famous. I don't think W K Smith was prosecuted because he was famous, he did get off because of that. He has since settled quite a few lawsuits for his bad behavior with woman.

It never occurred to me that Smith was prosecuted or acquitted because he was famous OR cute necessarily, but I guess he seemed cute enough for the juror's taste. And no matter how cute he is, his branch of the family seems awfully dysfunctional. Guy seems like a pig to me; hope the settlements have cost him plenty.

As for Caroline, it would seem that that family has public service pretty well ingrained in their upbringing. She can't be any worse than some of the other senators we have; she did a pretty bang up job of raising money for NYC schools and she strikes me as a thinker.

[javahog]

The Anthonys have removed all the signs and pictures from their house and cars. Still no date for a second examination of the remains or burial.

The only time they have been seen was leaving for chuch on Sunday morning. I bet the only one who enjoyed their Christmas dinner was the Liar.

Gator

Don't they have a couple of dogs? They always enjoy dinner. Oh, but there probably is the subtle but no doubt noticeable scent of decomposition around the house, so you're right, the dogs wouldn't have enjoyed dinner either.

Poor baby.

[deacon]

Javahog specifically mentioned/stated that Caylee was not with G&C. *swears under her breath* We know she didn't need a nanny. We know she didn't have a job. We know that G&C should have been able to figure out that she didn't have a job. We know the whole effing household is a dysfunctional snake pit. Still, the question remains; where was Caylee while Casey was being a flibbertygibbet eight hours or more a day?



It's been a while since chloroform was used for anesthesia, but it is a known carcinogen (not sure if it's flammable), so it's use was discontinued. I see people joking all the time about giving kids an extra dose of Benadryl to make them sleep. :(

tehee Was it Archie Bunker who used to say "terlit"?


Yes, it is flammable. And not only a carcinogen but in too large of a dose will kill instantly. Why the ding dong devil can people(not you) understand that this stuff was outlawed in medicine a very long time ago for a reason. That reason being it killed people.

Now, as for the point I have seen made about a "mistaken overdose" that would be like saying someone gave another person a "mistaken overdose of cyanide. It is poison for crying out loud. In its best day it was a controlled substance administered by a doctor only, not by a mother.

[Justice Denied?]

Ah! It was you who brought that theory up! I did see that and with all the Christmas rushing around I was reading parts here and there and wanted to respond but forgot who posted that. Then loretta got me drunk on hagnog and well, you know... ;)

I loved that theory because it made lots of sense. Actually it was very smart of Casey if that's true. She could have done that but of course she aims for her foot and never misses so things didn't pan out. If Casey wasn't so stupid and lazy, she'd be able to manage finances, living in Mexico and have blond hair.

I am not sure that theory is original with me. Seems like I heard it before I postedit. Yeah I know about Loretta and her Haterade and hagnog. People have been known to forget a lot of things on hagnog.

I actually think Casey may have planned to go see that soldier that she told she had something to tell him. She needs dark hair for Mexico. Most are brown or black headed.

[Peachallie]

Hi Shark, I didn't mean to suggest jury nullification in this case - Peach was stating that jurors have to follow the law as given to them by the judge and I was trying to make the point that jurors will not necessarily follow the rules as given, but would also use their logic, and common sense and emotion.

Gator
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I also noted she is not a sympathic defendant. Jury pardons are rare. I have personal knowledge of only one case & it was I guess a "partial jury pardon". Guilty on one count, not guilty on the other. With this child victim, there is no reason to even consider it. This is not a case wherein a family member is watching a loved one in horrible pain, and administers pain killer to end the suffering.

[Amy]

What's truly amazing about your experiment is that they didn't recognize her!!!

Not really. They play videos games and watch DVD's. Not so much into watching the news, even local. Son doesn't go to the stores if he can help it, and certainly does not read the covers of the tabloids and magazines (another DAILY exposure to this case.) I'm betting my 20 y/o DD and her 24 y/o bf wouldn't have a clue, either.

I know @ work, there are a few co-workers who have heard some about Caylee, they recognized her pic on the cover of a magazine I had taken to work. But, they didn't know much about the case @ all. One said she had just heard they were looking @ the mom (this was a couple of weeks into the case.)

[javahog]

So you are on the (totally tainted) jury. What new bit of evidence would clear Casey Anthony for you...Someone else's prints on the duct tape and none of hers? Proof the body was moved while she was incarcerated? Someone proving that THAT Zenaida existed?

Just curious...

[javahog]

Watching NG, its fascinating how so TOO much information Casey gives in those interrogations. TOO much detail, such a fascinating degree of fantasy to it. Its like a whole complete world in that little pinhead. What really gets me is so much of it is provable to be a lie, and she had to know that. Either nuts or setting up a nuts defence...imo.

[lighthousedazy]

No I guess I did not make it really clear. I am thinking since in Aug on one of the calls he said he saw something white with the bag , you know in the back of his mind he may have thought you never know that could a skull or bones or something,, it is near the Anthony home and I better call. I don't for a minute think he got close enough to see anything , kind of meant he may have kind of had that in his subconscious. And for the record I see nothing suspicious or hinky about the meter guy or the fact that police did not check out a low level tip that well esp when they had over 100 areas to look at. I was confused because I heard and read different things on the media. I try to catch it all -CNN, HLN, Fox News, and occasionally msnbc and the other one. It was first reported as a gray bag, and later something white, then in Dec. the actual bag was black. I can also understand that the LE are overworked and overwhelmed with such a large area. jmo

[lorettalockhorn]

Yes, it is flammable. And not only a carcinogen but in too large of a dose will kill instantly. Why the ding dong devil can people(not you) understand that this stuff was outlawed in medicine a very long time ago for a reason. That reason being it killed people.

Now, as for the point I have seen made about a "mistaken overdose" that would be like saying someone gave another person a "mistaken overdose of cyanide. It is poison for crying out loud. In its best day it was a controlled substance administered by a doctor only, not by a mother.

It's not flammable and has no flash point, but it is a poison. WTF ever made this drug popular among the young partiers who use it? You'd think they'd at least be concerned about their own health.

http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/healthguidelines/chloroform/recognition.html

And you'd think that Casey had plenty of other people's money to buy something safer to use for a babysitter.