Caylee Anthony Case Discussion Only

[joekuhl79]

Bump...Thank you Loretta! (Sorry for editing)

Why was a 1/4 inch of Caylee's hair found on the label of the shovel, which wasn't hers? Caylee wasn't around when her mother borrowed that shovel.

Out of 51 chemicals identified, 41 are consistent with human decomposition. Indications that any type of decompositional event that might be associated with the odor in the truck could have occured under deprived oxygen conditions, The chemicals identified appear very early in human decomposition.

Caylee woke up, couldn't get out, couldn't breathe, and died? The rest of the story............will come out.:(

Caylee:rose:

OS...the report stated that the 1/4" hair exhibited Caucasian characteristics, but was 'too limited to be of value'. It mentions that it was submitted for mitochondrial DNA analysis. The mitochondrial report (page 18) states that Casey or Caylee are not the source.

[joekuhl79]

Yes, you're right, and I read it too.......Guess I'm just losing my mind ...it a shame...lol

There's still a lot of evidence there. Surely the state has much more than what they've let us know about. What we do know about, for me personally, is enough to convict Casey. But I'm sure the state has much more. They would have waited for more evidence - or a body - before charging Casey if they didn't have an ace up their sleeve.

I don't think that 1/4" makes changes anything one way or the other.

[Gatordog]

Gator, et alii, if you find links that I haven't found, will you post them in the news forum for us? :beer:

Hi Loretta :seeya:

Seems you beat me to the Orlando Sentinel story. I hadn't looked to see if any other links had been put on the site yet. Shame on me.

This is probably the best news channel for information on the case. It's the Brighthouse Cable channel and they have all the transcripts, phone calls, etc. that have been released. :read:

http://www.cfnews13.com/Features/Caylee/default.aspx

[lorettalockhorn]

Hi Loretta :seeya:

Seems you beat me to the Orlando Sentinel story. I hadn't looked to see if any other links had been put on the site yet. Shame on me.

This is probably the best news channel for information on the case. It's the Brighthouse Cable channel and they have all the transcripts, phone calls, etc. that have been released. :read:

http://www.cfnews13.com/Features/Caylee/default.aspx

No problem; better to have duplicates than nothing at all, right? Thanks for the link! Out for a while and then I'll start nosing around again. :seeya:

[Gatordog]

I keep getting very annoyed by Cindy's denials of everything and her response is "Follow the timeline". Well for crying out loud - she keeps changing the time line. We can't trust it - I can't even trust George's statement that he saw Caley and Casey on June 16 (day after father's day) when it has been said that due to the terrible fight on the 15th, Casey left the house with Caley. The first 911 call was made on July 15 - that would have been 30 days if she left on June 16 not 31 days which means she died on June 15.

Dispatch: hi. What can you... can you tell me what's going on a little bit?

Casey: I’m sorry?

Dispatch: can you tell me a little bit what's going on?

Casey: my daughter's been missing for the last 31 days.

Dispatch: and you know who has

[lorettalockhorn]

I keep getting very annoyed by Cindy's denials of everything and her response is "Follow the timeline". Well for crying out loud - she keeps changing the time line. We can't trust it - I can't even trust George's statement that he saw Caley and Casey on June 16 (day after father's day) when it has been said that due to the terrible fight on the 15th, Casey left the house with Caley. The first 911 call was made on July 15 - that would have been 30 days if she left on June 16 not 31 days which means she died on June 15.

Dispatch: hi. What can you... can you tell me what's going on a little bit?

Casey: I’m sorry?

Dispatch: can you tell me a little bit what's going on?

Casey: my daughter's been missing for the last 31 days.

Dispatch: and you know who has


You know what? I remember when that call was first published, and I wondered how she could know it was 31 days. (But I never bothered to count.) Not about a month. Not four weeks. But 31 days. Don't know about y'all, but I have to recite: Thirty days hath September, April, June, and November.........." So that tells me that she was pretty well rehearsed, BUT either she still made a mistake. Or lied. :rolleyes: Or George did.

Thanks for something else to think about. Before you get so annoyed with Cindy that you put her on ignore, can you find out how she knows that the car didn't smell like death before it was towed?

[lorettalockhorn]

Was there anything in the documentation released today that was new? Or was it all basically supporting and/or confirming info already out there? I would apprec. any info on that. Sorry for asking but my pc is not liking the FBI document link and crashes. Only info i can read is from the Sentinal which really doesn't say much. Much appreciated :beer:

beemeup, see if your pc likes David Lohr's link better:

http://blogs.discovery.com/criminal_report/files/Casey_Anthony_Forensic_Report.pdf

RE: Cindy and the pizza. I am just wondering what olfactory contact she had with Casey's car before it was towed. Or if he statement is based on something that her PI has unearthed.

[sharlock]

Bump...Thank you Loretta! (Sorry for editing)

Why was a 1/4 inch of Caylee's hair found on the label of the shovel, which wasn't hers? Caylee wasn't around when her mother borrowed that shovel.

Out of 51 chemicals identified, 41 are consistent with human decomposition. Indications that any type of decompositional event that might be associated with the odor in the truck could have occured under deprived oxygen conditions, The chemicals identified appear very early in human decomposition.

Caylee woke up, couldn't get out, couldn't breathe, and died? The rest of the story............will come out.:(

Caylee:rose:
The hair found on the shoveled was proven not to have come from Caylee or Casey. It might be a hair from the neighbour who loant it to her?

[lorettalockhorn]

The hair found on the shoveled was proven not to have come from Caylee or Casey. It might be a hair from the neighbour who loant it to her?

The defense will claim it is from the real killer, doncha know?

Thanks so much Loretta yes the pc likes that link. I was thinking that might be a response from Cindy-you know the land of Oz :hat:

Good deal about the link! I'd have recapped it for you, but it's way over my head. And my hat. :hat:

Part of me feels sorry for Cindy; she must feel an enormous amount of guilt. But mostly she should shadddddduuuuuuuuuppppppppp.

[lorettalockhorn]

Dr. Arnall's conclusion(s) per the Nancy Grace show:

1) Decomposition occurred in the trunk of the car

2) The decomposition is human

3) The decomposition lasted about 2.6 days

4) The decomposing tissue included one human hair

5) The human hair belongs to either Caylee or Casey Anthony based on mitochondrial DNA analysis

6) Casey Anthony is not decomposed

[lorettalockhorn]

Beem, haven't seen the video (not sure which link you mean, sorry :punch: ); the pizza was just discussed on NG and the findings were that none of the decomposition in the trunk was from pizza. The lab did go so far as to decompose pizza and test it.

I'll have the transcript (not sure when it's posted) later.

[minga]

Dr. Arnall's conclusion(s) per the Nancy Grace show:

1) Decomposition occurred in the trunk of the car

2) The decomposition is human

3) The decomposition lasted about 2.6 days

4) The decomposing tissue included one human hair

5) The human hair belongs to either Caylee or Casey Anthony based on mitochondrial DNA analysis

6) Casey Anthony is not decomposed


I haven't been watching the coverage so my statement here may sound stupid. If the above is a summary and points are missing then maybe I'm missing something but if that's the way it's stated that scares me.

The decomp is human, there is 1 hair. WTH happened to the rest of the hair of whoever that decomposed person is? :eek:

Maybe I'm just missing something.

[SaraSidle]

Ok, last night watching NG, it happened. Yes, folks, I was yelling at the tv. My husband thinks I'm nuts, so I explain a bit about Casey working up a deal for adopting her baby (Caylee) to an old school chum. So, what happened he says ~ and we know it's because Cindy wouldn't allow it.

Made me think of all the resentment that Casey had been building up against her mother....then add to the mix how Cindy felt about Caylee..her ray of sunshine etc ~ what did her blog say about that little honey? The fight they had before Caylee disappeared, about being a responsible mother. So, she spites her by taking Caylee and leaving, right? But......why, during that whole month, did Cindy not track her daughter down to see Caylee? Why have that whole month go by only to find 'the nanny took her'. Because Cindy and George both know that Casey is a spiteful, vengeful person, and they didn't want to make that B***h madder than she was. They didn't want to make it (her) worse that what it was.

So, they already knew that Casey was a problem, had a problem with vindictiveness and put on the gloves once again in dealing with her. Casey HATES her mother. For ruining her life and for putting that darling little chicken nugget before her own daughter. So she uses Cindy for money and everything that she could get out of her (them). They knew there always was a problem with their wonderful daughter. That's ok, keep up the good front for the jury C & G ~ let's see where it gets them. :no:

just delving into the minds of psycho's.......

I hollered at the tv last night too OS and my husband yelled at me. He is tired about hearing about the case. I am tired of not having any info too.
IMO sara.

[SaraSidle]

I haven't been watching the coverage so my statement here may sound stupid. If the above is a summary and points are missing then maybe I'm missing something but if that's the way it's stated that scares me.

The decomp is human, there is 1 hair. WTH happened to the rest of the hair of whoever that decomposed person is? :eek:

Maybe I'm just missing something.

such a very good question Minga and I am wondering what the heck is going. I have been from the start and every NG and GVS show. so what the heck does that release today mean to us? IMO sara

[lorettalockhorn]

I haven't been watching the coverage so my statement here may sound stupid. If the above is a summary and points are missing then maybe I'm missing something but if that's the way it's stated that scares me.

The decomp is human, there is 1 hair. WTH happened to the rest of the hair of whoever that decomposed person is? :eek:

Maybe I'm just missing something.

Hey Minga! I transcribed that directly from my screen. (Theirs was all caps, but I'm not into yelling. Not on the internet, anyway.) I'll assume the rest of the hair is with the remaining remains and that the killer/disposer of the person sharing Casey's mitochondrial DNA did a lousy job of cleaning the trunk and that's why there was a single hair found. Bear in mind, this set of conclusions is per the Nancy Grace show. I posted links to the DNA results here and in the news forum earlier.

[lorettalockhorn]

Ok not losing it-check out the link i mentioned above. The news guy does say according to his report that yes there was a pizza box in the trunk but it never contained any pizza. Check it out???? So that would blow Cindy's denial theory sky high but as to what thats all about it just makes this even crazier. Why an empty pizza box that never contained any pizza. What the hay???? Where can one get a pizza box not containing pizza and why would anyone want one?????

My puter won't open that link for some reason, and I'm not sure that my desktop would either (considering it's older than Methusaleh). I'll try using IE or Opera. Thanks!

[lorettalockhorn]

Ok not losing it-check out the link i mentioned above. The news guy does say according to his report that yes there was a pizza box in the trunk but it never contained any pizza. Check it out???? So that would blow Cindy's denial theory sky high but as to what thats all about it just makes this even crazier. Why an empty pizza box that never contained any pizza. What the hay???? Where can one get a pizza box not containing pizza and why would anyone want one?????

I finally watched the video and he sure does say that the report states that there was never any pizza in the back of Casey's car. Does that mean that there was only an empty pizza box? Or that the entire pizza was consumed and she never threw the box away?

Stay tuned.

[applesandorange]

I finally watched the video and he sure does say that the report states that there was never any pizza in the back of Casey's car. Does that mean that there was only an empty pizza box? Or that the entire pizza was consumed and she never threw the box away?

Stay tuned.


What about the bag of pizza that the man threw away at the Amscot? The same bag that had Caylee's body fluids on the outside. Is this saying that never existed?

[grneyes]

Ok not losing it-check out the link i mentioned above. The news guy does say according to his report that yes there was a pizza box in the trunk but it never contained any pizza. Check it out???? So that would blow Cindy's denial theory sky high but as to what thats all about it just makes this even crazier. Why an empty pizza box that never contained any pizza. What the hay???? Where can one get a pizza box not containing pizza and why would anyone want one?????

You can usually find them at restaurant supply stores. As to why, who knows? :shrug: Gift box? Cookies?

[SaraSidle]

No problem; better to have duplicates than nothing at all, right? Thanks for the link! Out for a while and then I'll start nosing around again. :seeya:

thanks a ton Loretta!!!!!!

[SaraSidle]

LMAO You nut!

We do need the pragmatic types to keep us grounded.



It's great to get other theories; it's so easy to get boxed in by one's(my) own thinking.

LOL you know I totally agree. but I knew you would know I was nuts. thanks for not letting me down. You are doing great mu8shark

[SaraSidle]

Hi Sara, regarding Cindy's going to a therapist. She only went to a therapist a few days before Father's Day. She knew for a very long time that Casey was not being a good mother or person for that matter. It had to be at least a year that she was having problems with Casey based on Cindy's own comments. Her obligation was to protect Caylee which she didn't do and now can't face the truth due to guilt. I don't think she ever in her worst nightmare expected Caylee to die, but there were signs that she was being badly neglected.

Gator I highly respect your opinions but I sill think she was in a lot of guilt and denial and her timing was off. I am not saying she was a good mom or grandma but I do not think she was trying to be on top of it. None of us know what it would be like to be in that position. I wanted custody of my niece when she was Caylee's age but her mom and my brother moved in together and made themselves look just wonderful. I do not think we still know about G & C. IMO

[SaraSidle]

Please excuse my prior brain lapse over the pizza box. I just asked D.H. how he viewed that report. Promptly replied i guess it means somebody ate all the pizza. So with that i have promptly put the cork back in the Pinio:D I hear what ya are saying Sara. We can never know till ya walk the walk. I guess when ya have never been privy to it with family etc. you dont understand. Some days i symphathize and then i have days i wanna just scream at them all. :rose:

Well here I am thinking Beem that we have all the evidence and she will be found guilty. Now it seems that everything is iffy. why that report today? what is LE doing? and why the minister visit? what is the defense pulling................IMO sara:biggrin:(this will make loretta think I have buck teeth........

[SaraSidle]

keep the faith my friend gotta hang tough and strap in for a bit. Now the defense has a chance to do their spin thing cuz thats what they do and all they need to do. Create that doubt. Lets not fall into it unless some earth shattering proof pops up but i cant see that happening. Buck teeth look amazing on you with your yellow dress LOL. Ok Ok now what did i miss with the minister visit???? Pleeeez fill me in.:hat:

It was on Nancy Grace tonight. I will see if I can post it. All we know is she was visited by a minister over the weekend we have no idea why or what went on. I am just looking at the reformed defense angle cause I would not believe it for a newyorksecond...........IMo sara

[mu8shark]

Well here I am thinking Beem that we have all the evidence and she will be found guilty. Now it seems that everything is iffy. why that report today? what is LE doing? and why the minister visit? what is the defense pulling................IMO sara:biggrin:(this will make loretta think I have buck teeth........I don't think the evidence is iffy at all. Will the defense actually say yes it is the same mitrochrondiral dna as Caylee and yet it is not Caylee, it is instead another family member's hair.? Well come on you guys what other family member that has been stuffed in the that trunk is dead? No jury is going to buy the defense theory and that is why they are desperate to get that evidence thrown out. I agree with the guy on Nancy who said they can't rely on just this. They can't... But if I am a juror and most reasonable jurors would look at the evidence in total. The Forensics could be made to look iffy if Casey had reported her right away, made the appearance of cooperating, shown some grief and worry. If the dogs had not hit, the forensics may fall apart. If Casey herself had not texted about that smell long before the tow yard. If Cindy and George had not both mentioned it smellled like a dead body. If someone under Caseys log in name had not looked up missing children and chloroform.If only those photos of Casey whooping it up at clubs did not exist. If, if, if , if only there was no other incriminating behavioral, demeanor and other evidence, I would see this case as problematic. But jurors ,when trying to decide between experts , are going to look at everything in total. And the guy on Nancy who said chloroform appears naturally has obviously not talked to a chemist. The article I posted on this site said it was impossible that it appeared naturally or as an accidental mixing of cleaning products at that level. And what a coincidence she looks it up and it accidentally shows up there!!!. The other thing I was thinking of today is this, who else had a motive to kill Caylee? I know prosecutors and defense attorneys do not have to prove motive but juries love it. And if the defense tries to pin it on the someone at the tow yard that will be laughed at! Who else was tired of this child? I still feel rather secure in the forensics. Also, I know Kobe said he is not convinced it is not animal decomp, but where are the animal hairs??? Most mammals have hair, where is the animal hair to go along with the animal decomp. ??

[SaraSidle]

It was on Nancy Grace tonight. I will see if I can post it. All we know is she was visited by a minister over the weekend we have no idea why or what went on. I am just looking at the reformed defense angle cause I would not believe it for a newyorksecond...........IMo sara

I am not showing her show posted yet on YouTUbe. but this is all it was. IMO

[mu8shark]

I'm glad NG is no longer a prosecutor. I only watch her show because no one else is giving the Anthony case the coverage that she is. I personally think she is a mean, miserable person. I also think it's peculiar how she goes from being rude to her guests to syrupy sweet to the callers. She comes of as being unbalanced which I'm sure she is. When I watch her show, I take her own opinions with a grain of salt and look for whatever truth there might be in police and witness reports. NG is sarcastic, mean and belittling. Frankly, I don't think her attitude belongs anywhere, in the courtroom or on TV.What bothers me is how she tries to demean people and humilate them. I used to really like but some nights she is just exactly what you say, mean

[SaraSidle]

I don't think the evidence is iffy at all. Will the defense actually say yes it is the same mitrochrondiral dna as Caylee and yet it is not Caylee, it is instead another family member's hair.? Well come on you guys what other family member that has been stuffed in the that trunk is dead? No jury is going to buy the defense theory and that is why they are desperate to get that evidence thrown out. I agree with the guy on Nancy who said they can't rely on just this. They can't... But if I am a juror and most reasonable jurors would look at the evidence in total. The Forensics could be made to look iffy if Casey had reported her right away, made the appearance of cooperating, shown some grief and worry. If the dogs had not hit, the forensics may fall apart. If Casey herself had not texted about that smell long before the tow yard. If Cindy and George had not both mentioned it smellled like a dead body. If someone under Caseys log in name had not looked up missing children and chloroform.If only those photos of Casey whooping it up at clubs did not exist. If, if, if , if only there was no other incriminating behavioral, demeanor and other evidence, I would see this case as problematic. But jurors ,when trying to decide between experts , are going to look at everything in total. And the guy on Nancy who said chloroform appears naturally has obviously not talked to a chemist. The article I posted on this site said it was impossible that it appeared naturally or as an accidental mixing of cleaning products at that level. And what a coincidence she looks it up and it accidentally shows up there!!!. The other thing I was thinking of today is this, who else had a motive to kill Caylee? I know prosecutors and defense attorneys do not have to prove motive but juries love it. And if the defense tries to pin it on the someone at the tow yard that will be laughed at! Who else was tired of this child? I still feel rather secure in the forensics. Also, I know Kobe said he is not convinced it is not animal decomp, but where are the animal hairs??? Most mammals have hair, where is the animal hair to go along with the animal decomp. ??

Well first of all I do not trust Kobe any more. He has definitely did an about face since he joined the defense team and why the heck is he on Nancy Grace? I cannot find it now mu8shark but I remember a while back on her show where forensics were just reporting how sure the strands of hair were Caylee's and she was deceased because of the bands around the end near near the root . I feel like some backpedalling happened today. This case is becoming maddening with all the players,forensice,lies evidence. it seems to be worse every day. IMO by the way you have wonderful posts!!!!!!!!!!!! thank you for being here. Oh and one more thing.........we have all these people talking about homemade Cholorform. where is the evidence she bought the makings? what did she keep it in after mixing it? the gas cans? I still think they were from C & G and something backfired. IMO sorry for the rant

[mu8shark]

You know what? I remember when that call was first published, and I wondered how she could know it was 31 days. (But I never bothered to count.) Not about a month. Not four weeks. But 31 days. Don't know about y'all, but I have to recite: Thirty days hath September, April, June, and November.........." So that tells me that she was pretty well rehearsed, BUT either she still made a mistake. Or lied. :rolleyes: Or George did.

Thanks for something else to think about. Before you get so annoyed with Cindy that you put her on ignore, can you find out how she knows that the car didn't smell like death before it was towed? I can address that about how she knows it did not smell. She said she talked to the tow yard manager and she says he said it did not smell for five days or until five days after it was towed. This is at the very least Cindy getting confused at worst it is a blatant lie. I have read the tow yard managers signed statement in the documents and the only mention of five days is this. He told LE that when he and George opened the car , specifically the trunk, he told George that it smelled like a car that had been brought to the tow yard a while back. This car had a body in it of a man who had commited suicide and he had been left in the car for five days before it was found. Period! There is no mention in that statement of him saying anything else about five days, much less that Caseys car did not smell for five days . And also that little interview of Cindy was taped and aired before it was discovered that Casey mentioned the odor of something dead in her car, long before that car was abandoned. She told Amy it was squirrels that her Dad had hit when he drove the car . Number one he denies driving the car in his interview in that time span. Number two Casey actually texted Amy on the 27th when Leonard says they think she hid the body for the final time and said, the dead odor is gone. I got rid of it today. So Cindy may want to change that story about no odor, no odor before the car was towed. Those texts completed foul that up.

[mu8shark]

Well first of all I do not trust Kobe any more. He has definitely did an about face since he joined the defense team and why the heck is he on Nancy Grace? I cannot find it now mu8shark but I remember a while back on her show where forensics were just reporting how sure the strands of hair were Caylee's and she was deceased because of the bands around the end near near the root . I feel like some backpedalling happened today. This case is becoming maddening with all the players,forensice,lies evidence. it seems to be worse every day. IMO by the way you have wonderful posts!!!!!!!!!!!! thank you for being here. Oh and one more thing.........we have all these people talking about homemade Cholorform. where is the evidence she bought the makings? what did she keep it in after mixing it? the gas cans? I still think they were from C & G and something backfired. IMO sorry for the rant Thanks for saying such nice things about my posts. ! I always look forward to coming to this board because of people like you. The hairs are not Casey or Caylees mitrochrondial dna!!! I think I missed that. Maybe they just could not get dna. They did not say it was someone else's dna.

[lorettalockhorn]

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0810/24/ng.01.html

[SaraSidle]

I dont put much stock into what Kobe says now either. He was the one way back when i believe who explained the black banding in the hair showing decomp. Yes he is backpeddaling for the defense but yes i cant figure out for the life of me why he is still on N.G. when working for the defense. You would think they would have cut him off at that point. Well lets hope Casey said alot of hail mary's when she saw the priest/minister cuz i think she is going to need them. I think with just the chloraform search,evidence of it in her trunk and the fact that her daughter is missing is enough. Add the lies,the pics and all of it=Murder 1. yes u and i have kicked it around that the parents where to be part of this plot. I still do not rule that out either. With what this girl has displayed to us thus far she is capable of anything. Let's see if LE produces the loose ends in court which they are just now keeping from us.

I really hope to heck you are right. I am wondering if the air test is now good enough or does it just show chloroform and not dna. I really want this finished and Caylee found and put to rest. And maybe that will best evidence of all. Caylee (rest her soul) found by a cellphone ping. IMO sara

[mu8shark]

The mitrochrondial dna is identified as either from Casey or Caylee according to this article and look at the analysis from this renowed chemist Jeff Flowers. I think the defense is putting a spin on this. And look at what Baez says, he does not say there is no evidence that there is decomposition, he says there is no evidence that Casey harmed Caylee, which tells me they are going for the some other dude did it defense. But who else would have motive, means and opportunity? I think they are in trouble. I am posting this article from WESH. ORLANDO, Fla. -- Hard evidence released on Friday showed that at some point there was definitely a dead body in Casey Anthony's car.

The same report also showed that there was a strong presence of chloroform. Both findings confirm information sources previously revealed to WESH 2 News about missing 3-year-old Caylee Anthony's mother.

A chemist explained what the findings could mean for the investigation.

"This is what our tissues are made of," said chemist Dr. Jeff Flowers about the findings inside Casey Anthony's trunk. "This is a horrid thing to talk about, really."

Flowers said, after reading through the report from a body farm in Tennessee, he believes compounds found in the air in Casey Anthony's trunk point clearly to human decomposition.

"They did not base this on one or two positive identifications, but on many," Flowers said. "So it's very strong evidence in my mind as a chemist (of) decomposition of a body in the car, of a human body in the car."

In addition to evidence of human decomposition, scientists at the Tennessee body farm also found unusually high levels of chloroform.

"These are higher than what they might expect from decomposition products, and that means they have to have been put there artificially by a human being," Flowers said.

Also released Friday were tests from an FBI lab that conclude a strand of hair found in Casey Anthony's trunk showed signs of decomposition at the root, and under a microscope it appeared similar to hair taken from Caylee's hairbrush. But the sample was too small to draw a conclusion.

A DNA test on the same hair strand confirmed it came from either Casey or Caylee Anthony.

The body farm also said it found compounds that could indicate the decomposition took place in anaerobic conditions, meaning without oxygen, but Flowers said it's not strong evidence.

"One theory, if you've been following the case, is that she was buried somewhere else and then transferred into the car," Flowers said. "But it's pretty speculative."

Todd Black, the representative for Casey Anthony's attorney, Jose Baez, said the release of the documents do not show any proof that Casey Anthony harmed her daughter.

A representative for Orange County Jail said a pastor from Eastside Baptist Church met with Casey Anthony for about three hours Friday morning.
Copyright 2008 by WESH.COM. .

[lorettalockhorn]

I can address that about how she knows it did not smell. She said she talked to the tow yard manager and she says he said it did not smell for five days or until five days after it was towed. This is at the very least Cindy getting confused at worst it is a blatant lie. I have read the tow yard managers signed statement in the documents and the only mention of five days is this. He told LE that when he and George opened the car , specifically the trunk, he told George that it smelled like a car that had been brought to the tow yard a while back. This car had a body in it of a man who had commited suicide and he had been left in the car for five days before it was found. Period! There is no mention in that statement of him saying anything else about five days, much less that Caseys car did not smell for five days . And also that little interview of Cindy was taped and aired before it was discovered that Casey mentioned the odor of something dead in her car, long before that car was abandoned. She told Amy it was squirrels that her Dad had hit when he drove the car . Number one he denies driving the car in his interview in that time span. Number two Casey actually texted Amy on the 27th when Leonard says they think she hid the body for the final time and said, the dead odor is gone. I got rid of it today. So Cindy may want to change that story about no odor, no odor before the car was towed. Those texts completed foul that up.

ITA with your iffy post@11:03. Something that struck me in the report was the bit about the lack of presence of fluorides (I think) in the decomposition and it that might be attributed to the fact that a three year old might not have ingested enough fluorides in her lifetime for them to be present. So we're not just looking for some unknown relative of Cindy/Casey/Caylee, we're looking for a child. A dead child relative who was coincidentally in Casey's trunk. What are the odds?

You have a great memory for details; mine is more like Cindy's. And cynic that I am, I can't help but think that she's a lunatic for believing what the tow truck driver supposedly told her over the findings of experts. (Except that even if the tow truck driver did tell her that about the odor, it's not likely that he'll testify to it and recant his prior statement to LE.) She should be careful how she states what she "knows" about the odor lest people think she personally sniffed it out herself.

[mu8shark]

I really hope to heck you are right. I am wondering if the air test is now good enough or does it just show chloroform and not dna. I really want this finished and Caylee found and put to rest. And maybe that will best evidence of all. Caylee (rest her soul) found by a cellphone ping. IMO sara YOu are right, the air test could show chloroform and the odor of decomp but not dna. There is no way to get dna from those particular air tests from what I understand. Also I was just going to mention the search, from what Mike Brooks said on headline news the other day, only 1/3 of the area in the cell phone pings was able to be searched. They have not even looked at 2/3 of those areas. I think there is a good chance that they will find her body esp since as Leonard and Mike Brooks both said, she did not leave the Orlando area according to the cell phone pings and she is on the phone or texting constantly. If she had gone to Tampa or Jacksonville other areas, I would be less optimistic they would find the body but the area is pretty small that she mainly stayed in. So take heart, I do believe they will find that body . If they do then the question will not be is there decomp in the car but who else but Casey had the motive, means and opportunity to put Caylee in that car trunk?

[lorettalockhorn]

keep the faith my friend gotta hang tough and strap in for a bit. Now the defense has a chance to do their spin thing cuz thats what they do and all they need to do. Create that doubt. Lets not fall into it unless some earth shattering proof pops up but i cant see that happening. Buck teeth look amazing on you with your yellow dress LOL. Ok Ok now what did i miss with the minister visit???? Pleeeez fill me in.:hat:

The comments were basically that a minister had visited Casey for about three hours, and the subject of privilege came up. It was quickly pointed out that if this guy shares Casey's conversation with anyone, it is no longer considered privileged. Pretty interesting, really.

[mu8shark]

ITA with your iffy post@11:03. Something that struck me in the report was the bit about the lack of presence of fluorides (I think) in the decomposition and it that might be attributed to the fact that a three year old might not have ingested enough fluorides in her lifetime for them to be present. So we're not just looking for some unknown relative of Cindy/Casey/Caylee, we're looking for a child. A dead child relative who was coincidentally in Casey's trunk. What are the odds?

You have a great memory for details; mine is more like Cindy's. And cynic that I am, I can't help but think that she's a lunatic for believing what the tow truck driver supposedly told her over the findings of experts. (Except that even if the tow truck driver did tell her that about the odor, it's not likely that he'll testify to it and recant his prior statement to LE.) She should be careful how she states what she "knows" about the odor lest people think she personally sniffed it out herself. I think you have a point there, If he told her something different than he told Le, he will not admit it and imagine if he did say that on the stand I can see the DA saying and sir so you are telling me that every day you went over and tested and sniffed to see if that car smelled. Is that a customary practice for you to smell a car on day one , no smell, day two , no smell and so on? Nah, me thinks Cindy either heard wrong or she is lying. Also how will they explain Casey going on about the odors in early texts? Your point about the flouride is well taken. Good eye on that, that is narrowing it down even more, you are right, now we have a child with Casey or Caylees mitrochrondial dna who just so happened to end up dead in that trunk!

[SaraSidle]

The mitrochrondial dna is identified as either from Casey or Caylee according to this article and look at the analysis from this renowed chemist Jeff Flowers. I think the defense is putting a spin on this. And look at what Baez says, he does not say there is no evidence that there is decomposition, he says there is no evidence that Casey harmed Caylee, which tells me they are going for the some other dude did it defense. But who else would have motive, means and opportunity? I think they are in trouble. I am posting this article from WESH. ORLANDO, Fla. -- Hard evidence released on Friday showed that at some point there was definitely a dead body in Casey Anthony's car.

The same report also showed that there was a strong presence of chloroform. Both findings confirm information sources previously revealed to WESH 2 News about missing 3-year-old Caylee Anthony's mother.

A chemist explained what the findings could mean for the investigation.

"This is what our tissues are made of," said chemist Dr. Jeff Flowers about the findings inside Casey Anthony's trunk. "This is a horrid thing to talk about, really."

Flowers said, after reading through the report from a body farm in Tennessee, he believes compounds found in the air in Casey Anthony's trunk point clearly to human decomposition.

"They did not base this on one or two positive identifications, but on many," Flowers said. "So it's very strong evidence in my mind as a chemist (of) decomposition of a body in the car, of a human body in the car."

In addition to evidence of human decomposition, scientists at the Tennessee body farm also found unusually high levels of chloroform.

"These are higher than what they might expect from decomposition products, and that means they have to have been put there artificially by a human being," Flowers said.

Also released Friday were tests from an FBI lab that conclude a strand of hair found in Casey Anthony's trunk showed signs of decomposition at the root, and under a microscope it appeared similar to hair taken from Caylee's hairbrush. But the sample was too small to draw a conclusion.

A DNA test on the same hair strand confirmed it came from either Casey or Caylee Anthony.

The body farm also said it found compounds that could indicate the decomposition took place in anaerobic conditions, meaning without oxygen, but Flowers said it's not strong evidence.

"One theory, if you've been following the case, is that she was buried somewhere else and then transferred into the car," Flowers said. "But it's pretty speculative."

Todd Black, the representative for Casey Anthony's attorney, Jose Baez, said the release of the documents do not show any proof that Casey Anthony harmed her daughter.

A representative for Orange County Jail said a pastor from Eastside Baptist Church met with Casey Anthony for about three hours Friday morning.
Copyright 2008 by WESH.COM. .


What I bolded is what I am talking about. there were all these great announcements of traces in the trunk. Now they are a little iffy causing reasonable doubt to Murder One. I had a feeling defense would try that when the car was on in evidence for 2 weeks. they can claim whatever they want. Caylee can still say she was carjacked with Caylee in it. Making me very nervous and I hope to heck they have a lot more evidence. If this does not go down correctly my trust in the justice system will not be good. I understand she has 30 days on them for evidence but still....IMO
sorry for the rant again but that release today made me angry........sara

[SaraSidle]

Applesandorange what do you think?

[lorettalockhorn]

What I bolded is what I am talking about. there were all these great announcements of traces in the trunk. Now they are a little iffy causing reasonable doubt to Murder One. I had a feeling defense would try that when the car was on in evidence for 2 weeks. they can claim whatever they want. Caylee can still say she was carjacked with Caylee in it. Making me very nervous and I hope to heck they have a lot more evidence. If this does not go down correctly my trust in the justice system will not be good. I understand she has 30 days on them for evidence but still....IMO
sorry for the rant again but that release today made me angry........sara

I know how you take this to heart, but don't lose hope. This will be in the hands of a capable jury who will see and hear evidence that so far (probably) has been kept out of the media and maybe hasn't even been discovered yet. Juries convict on circumstantial evidence also. Nothing is ever a slam dunk in the courtroom, but The State has some convincing evidence.

>>Caylee can still say she was carjacked with Caylee in it.

The defense can offer that as an alternative to The State's case, but I don't think Casey will say that. She won't want to testify and risk being annihilated on the stand.

[lorettalockhorn]

About the minister's visit (from the transcript):

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. The visitor today, the minister who visited her?

LANCE: The minister -- he is actually someone who has been helping them with these vigils that they`ve been having. And recently, the vigils have not been at the Anthony home anymore. They`ve moved to this church where this pastor is. He came and visited Casey this morning for a few hours.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So I have to ask, Leonard Padilla, why a minister? What does that say about Casey`s mental state?

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Well, it doesn`t really say anything, other than I believe the minister`s conversation with her would be privileged. And she can create a message system between her, the minister, and Cindy and George, and Lee, even, that will not be -- it`s privileged, just like if it was an attorney. So instead of the attorneys taking time to go over to the jail, they sent the minister over......

I want to bring in the lawyers, because Leonard Padilla, the bounty hunter just said, hey, they`re sending in a minister -- and this his theory, you know, we don`t confirmation on this, obviously, because there is privilege there, and so she can talk to him without the Sunshine laws having that conversation ending up on the local news.

We, of course, remember that a lot of the conversations Casey had in jail ended up literally playing on this show and all over the country.

Do you think that`s actually happening with this minister? And I`ll go to Penny Douglass Furr on that.

PENNY DOUGLASS FURR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, most likely they are having conversations that are privileged. But what I wanted to say is, if there are conversations that are being carried then to her family, then you destroy the privilege.

So anything that`s discussed between the two of them is privileged. But once it goes to a third party, it`s not protected anymore.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Do you think, Joe Episcopo, that the authorities could actually prove that or do they have to just assume that the minister is doing what he`s doing, you can`t mess with the minister?

JOE EPISCOPO, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you could subpoena him and the parents, put them under oath and ask him, what did he tell you? And then they`d have to answer the question.

So that`s one way to find out if it happened, and besides, he doesn`t -- the minister doesn`t have a right to give away that privilege and tell someone else. You can`t do that. It`s like attorney/client.

I can`t ever reveal it unless my client tells me to do it or my client does it. And, again, if a third person is in my office and someone is revealing me something, that other person hears it, it`s not privileged.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well.

EPISCOPO: So the privilege is controlled.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter, this was your theory. Is there any other explanation for why her parents and her brother have not visited her in jail since she was re-arrested after the murder indictment came down?

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, MET WITH TOT CASE INVESTIGATORS: Well, you said it at the first part of your statement, and when we were back there, we had a young lady actually living with her, 24/7, traveling to the attorney`s office back and forth for nine days.

There is a lot of things that the young lady knows that she hasn`t revealed and I have not asked her. But one of the things that they were very upset about was that they could not communicate with each other in the jail or on the phone without it being taped or recorded.

So my thing, and -- the attorney, Mr. Episcopo there told you what happens. And that is that I have no doubt, and the way the family thinks, I have no doubt the minister is the one that`s carrying the messages.

And eventually, law enforcement or the FBI is going to subpoena the parents, and ask them.....

[applesandorange]

Applesandorange what do you think?

I've been listening to all of you, watching NG, and reading everything you all have posted as far as links. My opinion on the newly released evidence is disapointment. The way everyone was talking was that there was so much evidence. Everyone was talking like it was dead on. After reading every page of that report I am sad. IMO there are a lot of questionable things in there. This might just be to me because I am not a scientist and do not understand some of it. I just thought they had more than what this report is showing. If a jury is anything like me this evidence will not be enough to prove murder 1. I hope prosecution can explain these results better to the jury so they understand much better than I do. Listening to Koby tonight he basically said the defense will try to confuse the jury like they did in the OJ trial. The one article that was posted did explain things much better and made me feel somewhat better. The thing is I don't know if I believe it all now.

IMO so much weight is lying on Tim Miller to find Caylee's body. If they can find the body IMO murder 1 will stick. If not...... well lets hope they bring Caylee home soon.

[mu8shark]

What I bolded is what I am talking about. there were all these great announcements of traces in the trunk. Now they are a little iffy causing reasonable doubt to Murder One. I had a feeling defense would try that when the car was on in evidence for 2 weeks. they can claim whatever they want. Caylee can still say she was carjacked with Caylee in it. Making me very nervous and I hope to heck they have a lot more evidence. If this does not go down correctly my trust in the justice system will not be good. I understand she has 30 days on them for evidence but still....IMO
sorry for the rant again but that release today made me angry........sara
Just remember a few things. First of all, the carjacking theory probably won't look reasonable to a jury. I mean, if she was carjacked , how was it that she got the car back in time to call Tony from Amscot. Why did the carjacker leave her purse in there? If she was carjacked why did she not call the police with her precious three year old in the car? And car jacking would be so traumatic that she would party??? The odor was in the car before she left it at Amscot, she says in her text messages she is driving the car and it smells like something died. Casey says that before she dumped it. How coincidental is that? Also one other thing the defense can throw up reasonable doubt, but remember they can't throw up five different theories with no foundation, there theories have to have a reasonable basis. And finally I will leave you with this quote from Baez and he really did say it, "I think I have a pretty good case if we find Caylee." Darn tooting he does! But only if they find her. They are not going to be able to admit a bunch of letters or emails that say, Saw Caylee in Mexico at a burrito stand, saw Caylee in Puerto Rico, saw Caylee here, that kind of evidence has to have some reality to it. I hope I am not sounding like a know it all, but I have followed true crime for about 30 years and this case looks good for conviction , maybe not premeditated, that may be harder to prove, but I can't see her walking. When there are celebrities involved , I don't predict anything because anything goes.

[applesandorange]

Just remember a few things. First of all, the carjacking theory probably won't look reasonable to a jury. I mean, if she was carjacked , how was it that she got the car back in time to call Tony from Amscot. Why did the carjacker leave her purse in there? If she was carjacked why did she not call the police with her precious three year old in the car? And car jacking would be so traumatic that she would party??? The odor was in the car before she left it at Amscot, she says in her text messages she is driving the car and it smells like something died. Casey says that before she dumped it. How coincidental is that? Also one other thing the defense can throw up reasonable doubt, but remember they can't throw up five different theories with no foundation, there theories have to have a reasonable basis. And finally I will leave you with this quote from Baez and he really did say it, "I think I have a pretty good case if we find Caylee." Darn tooting he does! But only if they find her. They are not going to be able to admit a bunch of letters or emails that say, Saw Caylee in Mexico at a burrito stand, saw Caylee in Puerto Rico, saw Caylee here, that kind of evidence has to have some reality to it. I hope I am not sounding like a know it all, but I have followed true crime for about 30 years and this case looks good for conviction , maybe not premeditated, that may be harder to prove, but I can't see her walking. When there are celebrities involved , I don't predict anything because anything goes.


You make good points but the defense does not have to prove a different story. All they have to do is create reasonable doubt.

[mu8shark]

I've been listening to all of you, watching NG, and reading everything you all have posted as far as links. My opinion on the newly released evidence is disapointment. The way everyone was talking was that there was so much evidence. Everyone was talking like it was dead on. After reading every page of that report I am sad. IMO there are a lot of questionable things in there. This might just be to me because I am not a scientist and do not understand some of it. I just thought they had more than what this report is showing. If a jury is anything like me this evidence will not be enough to prove murder 1. I hope prosecution can explain these results better to the jury so they understand much better than I do. Listening to Koby tonight he basically said the defense will try to confuse the jury like they did in the OJ trial. The one article that was posted did explain things much better and made me feel somewhat better. The thing is I don't know if I believe it all now.

IMO so much weight is lying on Tim Miller to find Caylee's body. If they can find the body IMO murder 1 will stick. If not...... well lets hope they bring Caylee home soon. Can they prove premeditation? No nothing in those tests proves that , but a murder with an aggravated felony carries about the same time in jail, not the death penalty but lots of time. That looking up the chloroform and then it being found in huge quantities is huge. Also if you just pick up two things from those reports, one there is a hair with a band that shows decompositon. If you look at the thread on this, it is pretty strong stuff. Kobe before he worked for the defense explained to Nancy how strong this would be, now not so much because he is a paid lackey. And the number two thing, the mitrochrondial dna on that same hair shows it belongs to someone who has the same mitrochrondial dna as Casey or Caylee. It can't belong to Casey, she is alive. So what are the odds that that hair belongs to another dead child that has the same mitrochrondial dna, who also has a mother who did not report her missing, who partied after she was taken, who lied about her whereabouts, who also looked up chloroform, yikes. I think a jury will buy this. Tonight on NG you had almost all defense attorneys, who spin things wildly.

[mu8shark]

You make good points but the defense does not have to prove a different story. All they have to do is create reasonable doubt.No you are absolutely right they do not have to prove their theory but they can't just bring in six or seven outlandish theories. On Nancy Grace last night she pointed this out. I will try to find the quote , but in Scott Peterson, Geragos could not bring in his cult theory because it had no foundation. In a book I am reading about now, they tried to bring in that a mother was not killed by the defendant , her son but maybe was killed by an angry therapist because she did not pay the bill, the judge would not allow that as it was shown not to have foundation.

[applesandorange]

Can they prove premeditation? No nothing in those tests proves that , but a murder with an aggravated felony carries about the same time in jail, not the death penalty but lots of time. That looking up the chloroform and then it being found in huge quantities is huge. Also if you just pick up two things from those reports, one there is a hair with a band that shows decompositon. If you look at the thread on this, it is pretty strong stuff. Kobe before he worked for the defense explained to Nancy how strong this would be, now not so much because he is a paid lackey. And the number two thing, the mitrochrondial dna on that same hair shows it belongs to someone who has the same mitrochrondial dna as Casey or Caylee. It can't belong to Casey, she is alive. So what are the odds that that hair belongs to another dead child that has the same mitrochrondial dna, who also has a mother who did not report her missing, who partied after she was taken, who lied about her whereabouts, who also looked up chloroform, yikes. I think a jury will buy this. Tonight on NG you had almost all defense attorneys, who spin things wildly.

I want you to be right. It's not that I don't agree with what you are saying but some sources have said chloroform was found in huge amounts others are saying trace amounts. The report states that chloroform can come from decomposing bodies. So which source is true? Also it was in something I read or heard that the hair band thing is fairly new and may not hold much weight in the courtroom. I want to be optimistic about this I really do. Up until today I had so much faith that prosecution would prove this case hands down and now I just don't know. IMO the reporters have been reporting things and making it seem like much more than it really is. I think they want us all to believe prosecuters have this case won. After reading the report today and watching NG I don't know what to believe. Maybe tomorrow will change my mind.

[applesandorange]

No you are absolutely right they do not have to prove their theory but they can't just bring in six or seven outlandish theories. On Nancy Grace last night she pointed this out. I will try to find the quote , but in Scott Peterson, Geragos could not bring in his cult theory because it had no foundation. In a book I am reading about now, they tried to bring in that a mother was not killed by the defendant , her son but maybe was killed by an angry therapist because she did not pay the bill, the judge would not allow that as it was shown not to have foundation.


I don't think they will bring in 6 or 7 theories. I think they will use what the prosecution has and spin it. Spin it so much it confuses the jury. If they start talking DNA and mitochondrial and all scientific stuff normal people will get lost. I think all the defense will do is try to prove reasonable doubt. They will stick to Caylee got taken by the sitter, Casey is a victim and spin everything the prosection says. If the jury isn't following and the prosecution doesn't do a good enough job at explaining things the jury won't know what to believe about the evidence. JMO

[mu8shark]

Here is the quote from last night on NG regarding what the defense can bring is regarding someone else being responsible. And also what another defense attorney said about the chloroform. Both were said by defense attorneys. And both I think are important statements. Mickey Sherman was better able to explain how you can't bring in third party culpability without a decent showing that it is a possibility which is foundation. PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, there are very few innocent explanations for why someone would be trying to make chloroform. The problem for the defense here is not just that chloroform is connected with Casey, but the chloroform is connected with that trunk where a decomposing body was found. That`s a circumstance that`s going to be hard for the defense to explain, frankly.

GRACE: Mickey, do you think that part of their defense strategy is going to try to pin it on someone else that used the computer?

SHERMAN: If they can find anybody to pin it on, or at least to point a finger at, and have some basis for it -- as you know, most judges won`t let third-party culpability evidence in unless there`s some decent showing that that`s a possibility. But if they can find that -- I think that`s why they want the items suppressed because the contamination in the vehicle may be responsible.

[mu8shark]

I don't think they will bring in 6 or 7 theories. I think they will use what the prosecution has and spin it. Spin it so much it confuses the jury. If they start talking DNA and mitochondrial and all scientific stuff normal people will get lost. I think all the defense will do is try to prove reasonable doubt. They will stick to Caylee got taken by the sitter, Casey is a victim and spin everything the prosection says. If the jury isn't following and the prosecution doesn't do a good enough job at explaining things the jury won't know what to believe about the evidence. JMO The babysitter theory will get her off? Yikes they better have something stronger than a woman who does not exist at that address, Remember everything she said was a lie, Jeff Hopkins will come in and testify he does not have a child, nor does he know A Zenaida. I totally disagree, those lies will kill her. Most juries can follow some dna evidence and they really get circumstancil evidence. And her demeanor is going to kill her. If she is a victim, why was she partying? I guess I have quite a bit of faith in LE in this case and a jury.

[applesandorange]

The babysitter theory will get her off? Yikes they better have something stronger than a woman who does not exist at that address, Remember everything she said was a lie, Jeff Hopkins will come in and testify he does not have a child, nor does he know A Zenaida. I totally disagree, those lies will kill her. Most juries can follow some dna evidence and they really get circumstancil evidence. And her demeanor is going to kill her. If she is a victim, why was she partying? I guess I have quite a bit of faith in LE in this case and a jury.

You know what? You're right. This case is full of so many lies and things that the defense just can't explain away. After being discouraged today I guess I didn't really stop to think about the case as a whole. Rather I was thinking about the parts that came out today. I do think thought that finding Caylee's body will really seal the deal.

[mu8shark]

You know what? You're right. This case is full of so many lies and things that the defense just can't explain away. After being discouraged today I guess I didn't really stop to think about the case as a whole. Rather I was thinking about the parts that came out today. I do think thought that finding Caylee's body will really seal the deal.Absolutely that body will really seal it. And the key I think is looking at the case in total. The defense is going to have to debunk the cadaver dogs, Cindy and George both saying it smelled like decomposition, LE saying it smelled like decomp, the tow yard saying it smelled like decomp,, Casey texting that it smelled like something died. Then add in the body farm test that it was decomp, the band on the hair, the dna being on that hair that belongs to Casey or Caylee, the lies about the babysitter, the fact she spent nothing on her three year old, the fact she did not tell anyone about her supposed kidnapping, the fact she ditched the car, the fact that she partied after her beloved daughter was missing, the fact that she looked up chloroform and they found chloroform in the trunk where the decomp hair was. , the fact the she looked on missing childrens sites, the fact she told people in texts Caylee was cramping her style and those posts on her myspace, what is given can be taken away and calling herself a spiteful B. And then they are going to have to explain why she told so many lies, George took her car and hit two squirrels, the babysitter that does not exist, I do not list all this to be obnoxious but if you get kind of disappointed and down about the case , look at this list again. And remember there is more stuff that I forgot or that we don't even know about.

[mu8shark]

Absolutely that body will really seal it. And the key I think is looking at the case in total. The defense is going to have to debunk the cadaver dogs, Cindy and George both saying it smelled like decomposition, LE saying it smelled like decomp, the tow yard saying it smelled like decomp,, Casey texting that it smelled like something died. Then add in the body farm test that it was decomp, the band on the hair, the dna being on that hair that belongs to Casey or Caylee, the lies about the babysitter, the fact she spent nothing on her three year old, the fact she did not tell anyone about her supposed kidnapping, the fact she ditched the car, the fact that she partied after her beloved daughter was missing, the fact that she looked up chloroform and they found chloroform in the trunk where the decomp hair was. , the fact the she looked on missing childrens sites, the fact she told people in texts Caylee was cramping her style and those posts on her myspace, what is given can be taken away and calling herself a spiteful B. And then they are going to have to explain why she told so many lies, George took her car and hit two squirrels, the babysitter that does not exist, I do not list all this to be obnoxious but if you get kind of disappointed and down about the case , look at this list again. And remember there is more stuff that I forgot or that we don't even know about.Okay now I probably am being obnoxious, LOL, here is more to add, the fact she borrowed a shovel, the fact that Tony told the police on the day after she had a fight with her mother, she ask if she could stay with him and he said yes but you can't bring Caylee and suddenly Caylee is kidnapped! Also her father testifying like he did about how she was absolutely emphatic that he not get in that trunk. And they will have to explain that the day she left the car she texted Amy that she got rid of that smell.

[applesandorange]

Okay now I probably am being obnoxious, LOL, here is more to add, the fact she borrowed a shovel, the fact that Tony told the police on the day after she had a fight with her mother, she ask if she could stay with him and he said yes but you can't bring Caylee and suddenly Caylee is kidnapped! Also her father testifying like he did about how she was absolutely emphatic that he not get in that trunk. And they will have to explain that the day she left the car she texted Amy that she got rid of that smell.


Also the fact that she took none of Caylee's things. Her baby doll who she never went anywhere without was found in the car.... I'm sure there is so much more but I can't think of it right now lol.

[sharlock]

But the sample was too small to draw a conclusion.


What I bolded is what I am talking about. there were all these great announcements of traces in the trunk. Now they are a little iffy causing reasonable doubt to Murder One. I had a feeling defense would try that when the car was on in evidence for 2 weeks. they can claim whatever they want. Caylee can still say she was carjacked with Caylee in it. Making me very nervous and I hope to heck they have a lot more evidence. If this does not go down correctly my trust in the justice system will not be good. I understand she has 30 days on them for evidence but still....IMO
sorry for the rant again but that release today made me angry........sara

Hey Sara,
I just wanted to point out that the hair from the brush not being good enough to provide MtDNA isn't really that important because they did further tests using MtDNA samples that show it definitely was Caylees or Caseys hair showing decomp signs in the trunk and that is all they were trying to show with the brush hair. Then you can go one step further to, tests are still being done and they will most definitelycompare DNA from the family to break that down further and prove it was Caylees. This isn't all they have either circumstantial evidence is super strong and some statements haven't been released to the public either which I find telling. I think it will be okay even if they don't find Caylees remains.

[DRF2000]

I was very glad to see the FBI forensic reports yeaterday. Given the TOTALITY of the evidence (and so much we do not know), I feel confident that Casey will be convicted.

[deputydi]

I don't think the evidence is iffy at all. Will the defense actually say yes it is the same mitrochrondiral dna as Caylee and yet it is not Caylee, it is instead another family member's hair.? Well come on you guys what other family member that has been stuffed in the that trunk is dead? No jury is going to buy the defense theory and that is why they are desperate to get that evidence thrown out. I agree with the guy on Nancy who said they can't rely on just this. They can't... But if I am a juror and most reasonable jurors would look at the evidence in total. The Forensics could be made to look iffy if Casey had reported her right away, made the appearance of cooperating, shown some grief and worry. If the dogs had not hit, the forensics may fall apart. If Casey herself had not texted about that smell long before the tow yard. If Cindy and George had not both mentioned it smellled like a dead body. If someone under Caseys log in name had not looked up missing children and chloroform.If only those photos of Casey whooping it up at clubs did not exist. If, if, if , if only there was no other incriminating behavioral, demeanor and other evidence, I would see this case as problematic. But jurors ,when trying to decide between experts , are going to look at everything in total. And the guy on Nancy who said chloroform appears naturally has obviously not talked to a chemist. The article I posted on this site said it was impossible that it appeared naturally or as an accidental mixing of cleaning products at that level. And what a coincidence she looks it up and it accidentally shows up there!!!. The other thing I was thinking of today is this, who else had a motive to kill Caylee? I know prosecutors and defense attorneys do not have to prove motive but juries love it. And if the defense tries to pin it on the someone at the tow yard that will be laughed at! Who else was tired of this child? I still feel rather secure in the forensics. Also, I know Kobe said he is not convinced it is not animal decomp, but where are the animal hairs??? Most mammals have hair, where is the animal hair to go along with the animal decomp. ??
I tried to give you some rep points for this post, but the message said I had to spread some around????? Anyway, this is a great post.

[deputydi]

Can they prove premeditation? No nothing in those tests proves that , but a murder with an aggravated felony carries about the same time in jail, not the death penalty but lots of time. That looking up the chloroform and then it being found in huge quantities is huge. Also if you just pick up two things from those reports, one there is a hair with a band that shows decompositon. If you look at the thread on this, it is pretty strong stuff. Kobe before he worked for the defense explained to Nancy how strong this would be, now not so much because he is a paid lackey. And the number two thing, the mitrochrondial dna on that same hair shows it belongs to someone who has the same mitrochrondial dna as Casey or Caylee. It can't belong to Casey, she is alive. So what are the odds that that hair belongs to another dead child that has the same mitrochrondial dna, who also has a mother who did not report her missing, who partied after she was taken, who lied about her whereabouts, who also looked up chloroform, yikes. I think a jury will buy this. Tonight on NG you had almost all defense attorneys, who spin things wildly.
If Caylee's body is never found, that one strand of hair will IMO prove she is dead. The MtDNA will prove it was from either Caylee, Casey, Cindy or Lee and the band proves it comes from a decomposing body. Three of the four individuals are alive and the chance it came from someone unrelated who died and was placed in the trunk of that particular car is too remote to be considered IMO.

I love your posts.

[deputydi]

The babysitter theory will get her off? Yikes they better have something stronger than a woman who does not exist at that address, Remember everything she said was a lie, Jeff Hopkins will come in and testify he does not have a child, nor does he know A Zenaida. I totally disagree, those lies will kill her. Most juries can follow some dna evidence and they really get circumstancil evidence. And her demeanor is going to kill her. If she is a victim, why was she partying? I guess I have quite a bit of faith in LE in this case and a jury.
I doubt those pictures will be allowed in as evidence. I don't see any probative value and they are definitely prejudicial. We'll have to wait and see what the judge thinks.

[deputydi]

Yes it will be interesting to see if the judge allows the pics in. My only hope on that is the fact that did she not tell the detectives she was at Fusion looking around for info on Zanny as she frequented the place? She may have opened the door herself to allow that in. Here's hoping.:rose:
I didn't know she had told the detectives that. If she did, she may very well have opened that door all by herself.

[lorettalockhorn]

Doesn't everything that is presented in discovery open the door for those facts or evidence to be questioned, refuted or pursued by the other side/both sides? Even if the pix aren't allowed, witnesses can still testify to her presence and demeanor at Fusion or anywhere else to establish the timeline.

[deputydi]

Doesn't everything that is presented in discovery open the door for those facts or evidence to be questioned, refuted or pursued by the other side/both sides? Even if the pix aren't allowed, witnesses can still testify to her presence and demeanor at Fusion or anywhere else to establish the timeline.
Not necessarily. If the prosecution wants to use those pictures and/or testimony regarding her demeanor at Fusion and the defense objects (which they most definitely will), it is up to the judge to determine how much probative value they have. If he finds that this evidence is more prejudicial than probative, he can (and I believe he probably will) disallow them. It is possible that he may allow one or two of the less graphic pics, but I just can't see him letting the most damaging ones in.

[lorettalockhorn]

Not necessarily. If the prosecution wants to use those pictures and/or testimony regarding her demeanor at Fusion and the defense objects (which they most definitely will), it is up to the judge to determine how much probative value they have. If he finds that this evidence is more prejudicial than probative, he can (and I believe he probably will) disallow them. It is possible that he may allow one or two of the less graphic pics, but I just can't see him letting the most damaging ones in.

I probably worded my question incorrectly, but if the defense itself raises a question, about what was revealed through discovery, for instance that Casey was desperately searching for Zenaida at Fusion, the information about what she was actually doing becomes fair game by their own assertion. Does it not?

[deputydi]

I probably worded my question incorrectly, but if the defense itself raises a question, about what was revealed through discovery, for instance that Casey was desperately searching for Zenaida at Fusion, the information about what she was actually doing becomes fair game by their own assertion. Does it not?
Absolutely. Once the defense opens the door, they can't complain that the horses got out. Can you even imagine them being that stupid?

[lorettalockhorn]

Absolutely. Once the defense opens the door, they can't complain that the horses got out. Can you even imagine them being that stupid?

Hey, a girl can dream can't she?!

Seriously, Baez has stated that we will be made to understand, which means that the defense has some 'splainin' to do. They're going to be forced by their own hand to open the door as to what exactly Casey was doing while conducting her investigation.

[SaraSidle]

Just wanted you to know that I feel all of your posts make sense and are very intelligent in my opinion. I am glad you are all here.........IMO sara

[Donna]

I would love love love to see Ann Rule take on this case.

Donna

[SaraSidle]

I would love love love to see Ann Rule take on this case.

Donna

we might need someone stronger like the guy that did JBR or the asian guy (henry Lee?)who had a tv series. I am sorry my mind is slipping but I know they have names............ I do not seem to be able to trust the professionals and LE at this point..........IMO sara

[deputydi]

I would love love love to see Ann Rule take on this case.

Donna
So would I! I think I remember her saying one time that she doesn't write about the high profile cases but maybe she'd make an exception.

[sharlock]

I tried to give you some rep points for this post, but the message said I had to spread some around????? Anyway, this is a great post.

I tried to do it for you DD but got the same message lol!:)

[One2Snoop]

:seeya:I was sure i heard it in one of the early audio tapes. I could be wrong maybe it was something that was said by the family. I do remember hearing it. There are some good memories here that can maybe clarify. So much info. it's getting confusing. I am sure the defense will put up quite a fight tho to keep them out. :rose:

You heard it correctly - its on one of the tape interviews with Casey. :seeya:

Thanks Loretta and Sara for keeping Caylee's forum updated - I really appreciate it. :rose:

[One2Snoop]

I tried to do it for you DD but got the same message lol!:)

I think you have to give rep to 3 or 4 other people before you can give it to the same person again, at least this is what I've found. :seeya:

[Avad1228]

I saw the man that claimed to see a woman with a shovel etc coming out the woods and hit her head on the trunk, I wonder if anyone can say they saw casey with a mark on her forehead around this time? I will be curious to how the searchers make out in Nov. Where was their website? I would like to make a donation.

[beachbum]

If it was not Casey, would the woman that it was seen in that area at that time, please come forward for identification-no questions asked. We just need to know if it was Casey for sure.

[beachbum]

This is OT but Last week on NG she had a story about about the beating of an anchor woman on KATV Channel 7 in Little Rock, AR -Ann Pressly. She was beaten in her bed in her home by an unknown attacker during the night. Sad to say, but Miss Pressly passed away last night. She was 26 years old. So here we go again another unsolved murder of a young beautiful woman. Just so senseless.

[lorettalockhorn]

I saw the man that claimed to see a woman with a shovel etc coming out the woods and hit her head on the trunk, I wonder if anyone can say they saw casey with a mark on her forehead around this time? I will be curious to how the searchers make out in Nov. Where was their website? I would like to make a donation.

Here you go, Avad!

http://texasequusearch.org/

[SaraSidle]

:seeya:

You heard it correctly - its on one of the tape interviews with Casey. :seeya:

Thanks Loretta and Sara for keeping Caylee's forum updated - I really appreciate it. :rose:

Thanks O2S but Loretta did most of the work. thanks Loretta

[SaraSidle]

This is OT but Last week on NG she had a story about about the beating of an anchor woman on KATV Channel 7 in Little Rock, AR -Ann Pressly. She was beaten in her bed in her home by an unknown attacker during the night. Sad to say, but Miss Pressly passed away last night. She was 26 years old. So here we go again another unsolved murder of a young beautiful woman. Just so senseless.

hey beachbum we have a thread here about Anne and it is awful I agree. IMOhttp://boards.library.trutv.com/showthread.php?p=9134329#post9134329

[deputydi]

I saw the man that claimed to see a woman with a shovel etc coming out the woods and hit her head on the trunk, I wonder if anyone can say they saw casey with a mark on her forehead around this time? I will be curious to how the searchers make out in Nov. Where was their website? I would like to make a donation.
Welcome, Avad1228.

I thought the same thing when I heard him say she bumped her head on the trunk lid hard enough that she almost knocked off her hat.

[SaraSidle]

Welcome, Avad1228.

I thought the same thing when I heard him say she bumped her head on the trunk lid hard enough that she almost knocked off her hat.

yes with everything else going on it probably hit the scalp which is hidden by her hair if there is a mark.......All the partying pictures do not show a mark. IMO

[Sea Zephyr]

I think she could easily cover up a mark with make-up, although I'm not sure I believe the "witness."

[SaraSidle]

I think she could easily cover up a mark with make-up, although I'm not sure I believe the "witness."

Well that is a good point also but the party pictures show her doing a lot of dancing which might dissolve the makeup. I hope the witnesses are correct. sara imo

[Sea Zephyr]

Hi Sara, I thought there was only one witness, the man who says he saw Casey with a bag and a shovel. Are there any other witnesses?

[One2Snoop]

Hi Sara, I thought there was only one witness, the man who says he saw Casey with a bag and a shovel. Are there any other witnesses?

This supposed witness had a friend in the car with him and IIRC he backed his friends account of what he saw.

[One2Snoop]

PAUL KOVACH, WITNESS: White car, black bra (ph) on the front. That area right there is where she was coming out of the woods with a shovel.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Orlando station WFTV spoke to a possible eyewitness who claims he saw a woman closely resembling tot mom Casey Anthony near a wooded area with a shovel and bag in late June.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Paul Kovach says he truly believes he saw Casey Anthony`s car parked along the roadside in late June as he and a friend slowly trolled for scrap metal on the roadside.

KOVACH: I knew something was wrong then. If Jimmy would have just stopped, we`d have been all right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kovach says he wanted to see if the woman needed help, but his friend would only slow down as the woman walked out of the wooded area wearing a large straw hat, where a bridge of old tires is the only access to railroad tracks -- very secluded railroad tracks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The witness also says he saw a well-dressed man standing nearby, talking on a cell phone and pretending to fish.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0810/17/ng.01.html

[mu8shark]

I doubt those pictures will be allowed in as evidence. I don't see any probative value and they are definitely prejudicial. We'll have to wait and see what the judge thinks.You may be right on this. However if the defense tries to present evidence that she was out looking all over for Caylee and was very worried and concerned, they may open the door as prosecution to introduce them as a rebuttal to that. Also even without the photos you know Tony is going to have to testify and they are going to ask him, Was she concerned, did she mention her missing child, what was her behavior like, did she do the normal things you all usually do? And he will probably testify she visited clubs. They may not get photos in but I bet the jury will find out about her demeanor as demeanor evidence is often allowed. The photos may not see the light of day, I totally agree and it may be a good call but the jury will find out she did not look for that child. JMO. Hey thanks for the compliments on my posts. Lots of nice people on here.!

[mu8shark]

Absolutely. Once the defense opens the door, they can't complain that the horses got out. Can you even imagine them being that stupid? Absolutely if someone gets up there and starts talking about how she searched here and there and was worried and grief stricken those photos are coming in. And as I said below on my post, I did not read all the posts , so I see someone already mentioned this, but I bet Tony will testify as to her demeanor and that they did normal , fun things while Caylee was 'missing' and that should be allowable whether the defense talks about it or not. So if the defense is stupid , the photos will probably come in, even if they are not, Tony will be allowed to testify as to her demeanor.

[mu8shark]

If Caylee's body is never found, that one strand of hair will IMO prove she is dead. The MtDNA will prove it was from either Caylee, Casey, Cindy or Lee and the band proves it comes from a decomposing body. Three of the four individuals are alive and the chance it came from someone unrelated who died and was placed in the trunk of that particular car is too remote to be considered IMO.

I love your posts. You really worded this better than i did. Even Kobe said it would come down to statistical probabilities, right? And the probability is exactly what you said, remote. It would absurd to suggest there was another body in there, a family member would not work because I doubt they can point to a family member who is missing or just died.. And a complete stranger decomposing in her trunk when her daughter is missing. That is just laughable!

[mu8shark]

Sometimes, when I am following a case I try to step back and look at the biggest mistake the person made and in Caseys case, the thing that will really come back to bite her in the butt is that she waited 31 days to report her child missing and even then her mother had to force the issue. This is just unfathomable. Who does not go to the police? Even in kidnappings where the kidnappers tell them not to contact LE, people do. Casey is the daughter of a cop, she had to know that the police had tons of resources and power to subpoena records she did not have. I have two cousins who are kind of following this story and when I told them about it initially both separately said the same thing, How could she wait that long to tell the police? Or to tell anybody? This just makes no sense and I think it will just clobber the jury. I had a dog run off one day when she slipped out from her collar and I called everybody. I was frantic. I found her safe , thank the lord but who is going to be able to get by this?

[joekuhl79]

Alot of good legal minds here. Do you think any of the jail conversations will be let in? I cant recall of any cases where i did hear any? I am thinking of the call where her only concern seemed to be getting Tony's number. Not that any of the other recorded calls look good for her either. Could some of it be let in to show state of mind?:rose:

I sure hope the jury gets to see/hear those calls...especially the one you're talking about - that was the one where her friend is asking about Caylee, and breaks down crying, and Casey is all like "Calling you guys? A waste!" What a wench!

[deputydi]

Sometimes, when I am following a case I try to step back and look at the biggest mistake the person made and in Caseys case, the thing that will really come back to bite her in the butt is that she waited 31 days to report her child missing and even then her mother had to force the issue. This is just unfathomable. Who does not go to the police? Even in kidnappings where the kidnappers tell them not to contact LE, people do. Casey is the daughter of a cop, she had to know that the police had tons of resources and power to subpoena records she did not have. I have two cousins who are kind of following this story and when I told them about it initially both separately said the same thing, How could she wait that long to tell the police? Or to tell anybody? This just makes no sense and I think it will just clobber the jury. I had a dog run off one day when she slipped out from her collar and I called everybody. I was frantic. I found her safe , thank the lord but who is going to be able to get by this?
How right you are! The fact that she didn't report her missing child for 31 days, and even then it was her mother who made the call, will come back to bite her in the butt. Apparently, there isn't a single person she told she had a missing child (unless you count her "coworkers" at Universal). This bizarre woman didn't even confide in her ex-cop father for cryin' out loud.

I thought Scott P was the epitome of stupid, but Casey IMO has even topped him.

[Gatordog]

The hair found on the shoveled was proven not to have come from Caylee or Casey. It might be a hair from the neighbour who loant it to her?

Not if the owner of the shovel isn't caucasian. I don't know who the owner is but the neighborhood is very diversified and George has been shown on TV with a neighbor who is African American.

[Gatordog]

I finally watched the video and he sure does say that the report states that there was never any pizza in the back of Casey's car. Does that mean that there was only an empty pizza box? Or that the entire pizza was consumed and she never threw the box away?

Stay tuned.

If I remember correctly, when George was picking up the car from the impound lot, he opened the trunk in the presence of a worker from the lot. They were both apprehensive about opening the trunk due to the smell. When they opened the trunk they saw the white plastic bag which contained three slices of pizza and the other disgusting stuff. The guy from the lot took the bag and threw it over the fence into the dumpster. A detective went during the middle of the night and retrieved the bag which had the pizza from the dumpster. The guy at the car lot went himself early in the morning to look for the bag and was concerned because he couldn't find it and thought the evidence was stolen.

[lorettalockhorn]

Thanks O2S but Loretta did most of the work. thanks Loretta

Pshaw You're welcome Sara and O2S! (Hope I haven't missed anything important.) Sara, so glad to have you here giving us all moral support. :seeya:

[lorettalockhorn]

If I remember correctly, when George was picking up the car from the impound lot, he opened the trunk in the presence of a worker from the lot. They were both apprehensive about opening the trunk due to the smell. When they opened the trunk they saw the white plastic bag which contained three slices of pizza and the other disgusting stuff. The guy from the lot took the bag and threw it over the fence into the dumpster. A detective went during the middle of the night and retrieved the bag which had the pizza from the dumpster. The guy at the car lot went himself early in the morning to look for the bag and was concerned because he couldn't find it and thought the evidence was stolen.

Gator, that's pretty much my memory also. That's why we were flabbergasted to hear about no pizza ever.

[Gatordog]

Gator I highly respect your opinions but I sill think she was in a lot of guilt and denial and her timing was off. I am not saying she was a good mom or grandma but I do not think she was trying to be on top of it. None of us know what it would be like to be in that position. I wanted custody of my niece when she was Caylee's age but her mom and my brother moved in together and made themselves look just wonderful. I do not think we still know about G & C. IMO

Hi Sara,

Breaks my heart about your niece. I have a nephew who I'm especially close to and if anything had happened to him, I don't know what I would have done. You're right that the timing could have been off by accident due to the crush of such emotions at the time. It's what followed that has my concern.

[Gatordog]

I don't think the evidence is iffy at all. Will the defense actually say yes it is the same mitrochrondiral dna as Caylee and yet it is not Caylee, it is instead another family member's hair.? Well come on you guys what other family member that has been stuffed in the that trunk is dead? No jury is going to buy the defense theory and that is why they are desperate to get that evidence thrown out. I agree with the guy on Nancy who said they can't rely on just this. They can't... But if I am a juror and most reasonable jurors would look at the evidence in total. The Forensics could be made to look iffy if Casey had reported her right away, made the appearance of cooperating, shown some grief and worry. If the dogs had not hit, the forensics may fall apart. If Casey herself had not texted about that smell long before the tow yard. If Cindy and George had not both mentioned it smellled like a dead body. If someone under Caseys log in name had not looked up missing children and chloroform.If only those photos of Casey whooping it up at clubs did not exist. If, if, if , if only there was no other incriminating behavioral, demeanor and other evidence, I would see this case as problematic. But jurors ,when trying to decide between experts , are going to look at everything in total. And the guy on Nancy who said chloroform appears naturally has obviously not talked to a chemist. The article I posted on this site said it was impossible that it appeared naturally or as an accidental mixing of cleaning products at that level. And what a coincidence she looks it up and it accidentally shows up there!!!. The other thing I was thinking of today is this, who else had a motive to kill Caylee? I know prosecutors and defense attorneys do not have to prove motive but juries love it. And if the defense tries to pin it on the someone at the tow yard that will be laughed at! Who else was tired of this child? I still feel rather secure in the forensics. Also, I know Kobe said he is not convinced it is not animal decomp, but where are the animal hairs??? Most mammals have hair, where is the animal hair to go along with the animal decomp. ??

Hi Shark, Gator here. I agree with you totally. Very good post. If you take the circumstantial evidence once piece at a time or by itself, it's iffy. When you put it all together it makes a very compelling story and one which points to manslaughter at the very least.

[deputydi]

Yes here's hoping alot of that state of mind evidence gets in. There are so many facts that stand alone which look so bad for her. Add the sum of it all-I cant see her walking from this. I cant wait to hear Baez's we will understand theory. There is nothing on the planet that could explain any of this in my mind. MOO:rose:
I know. I can't wait to hear what it is we're going to understand. Nothing can make me understand why Casey didn't report her missing daughter to ANYONE for a month or how she could continue to party as if she didn't have a worry in the world. I will also never understand why she continued to tell blatant lies to LE and sending them in directions she knew were false. She impeded this investigation ON PURPOSE and I can't imagine believing anything other than she didn't want Caylee found ----- period.

You can bet those prison phone calls will all be entered into evidence. Both parties are forewarned than they are being recorded and the defense can object all they want, but they're coming in for sure. The prosecution will probably want only parts of them entered and the defense will insist on the jury hearing the entire call.

I'm still not sure about the admissability of the photos. The pros would have to prove when they were taken -- which, I guess, would be easy enough. My problem is whether the judge will see the majority of these pics as too inflamatory. The last thing he would want is to have a reversal based on evidence that would surely inflame the jury. The judge's only role is to ensure that Casey receives a fair trial. If there is a call that can go either way, most judges like to err on the side of the defendant.

[Gatordog]

I think you have a point there, If he told her something different than he told Le, he will not admit it and imagine if he did say that on the stand I can see the DA saying and sir so you are telling me that every day you went over and tested and sniffed to see if that car smelled. Is that a customary practice for you to smell a car on day one , no smell, day two , no smell and so on? Nah, me thinks Cindy either heard wrong or she is lying. Also how will they explain Casey going on about the odors in early texts? Your point about the flouride is well taken. Good eye on that, that is narrowing it down even more, you are right, now we have a child with Casey or Caylees mitrochrondial dna who just so happened to end up dead in that trunk!

You know what? I just remembered that while reading the tow yard employee's transcript, he said that George was very nice and had apologized to him for his wife's (Cindy's) behavior towards him. Seems she was very rude to the tow yard man. She probably never even listened to a word he said because she was more concerned about trying to get the impound fee lowered.

[Gatordog]

I've been listening to all of you, watching NG, and reading everything you all have posted as far as links. My opinion on the newly released evidence is disapointment. The way everyone was talking was that there was so much evidence. Everyone was talking like it was dead on. After reading every page of that report I am sad. IMO there are a lot of questionable things in there. This might just be to me because I am not a scientist and do not understand some of it. I just thought they had more than what this report is showing. If a jury is anything like me this evidence will not be enough to prove murder 1. I hope prosecution can explain these results better to the jury so they understand much better than I do. Listening to Koby tonight he basically said the defense will try to confuse the jury like they did in the OJ trial. The one article that was posted did explain things much better and made me feel somewhat better. The thing is I don't know if I believe it all now.

IMO so much weight is lying on Tim Miller to find Caylee's body. If they can find the body IMO murder 1 will stick. If not...... well lets hope they bring Caylee home soon.

A&O, don't give up the ship yet. There is probably still a lot of evidence we don't know about yet. Perhaps they have video at the Amscott that shows no one tampered with the car there. Don't forget all the statements made by the friends. There's a lot more to the case than just forensics.

[Gatordog]

I was sure i heard it in one of the early audio tapes. I could be wrong maybe it was something that was said by the family. I do remember hearing it. There are some good memories here that can maybe clarify. So much info. it's getting confusing. I am sure the defense will put up quite a fight tho to keep them out. :rose:

She did reply to the detectives that she did go to nightclubs and other places where Zannie went in hopes of finding her or information on her. Well, if she's looking for information, she's certainly not going to get it by dancing and not asking any questions. Perhaps the pictures can be used on rebuttal.

[Gatordog]

Absolutely. Once the defense opens the door, they can't complain that the horses got out. Can you even imagine them being that stupid?

Yup.

[Gatordog]

Hey, a girl can dream can't she?!

Seriously, Baez has stated that we will be made to understand, which means that the defense has some 'splainin' to do. They're going to be forced by their own hand to open the door as to what exactly Casey was doing while conducting her investigation.

I'd love to know how the defense is going to bring all this information out for us to understand without putting Casey on the stand? If there is some bulls*&^ story out there about being carjacked or a victim of a crime, how in the world are they going to get it out without questioning her. If they put her on the stand, she'll start making up more stories. She will bask in the glory of being questioned and who knows what she will come up with. I hope she takes the stand. I'll have to day the day off and load up on snacks in the house for that performance.

[Gatordog]

I sure hope the jury gets to see/hear those calls...especially the one you're talking about - that was the one where her friend is asking about Caylee, and breaks down crying, and Casey is all like "Calling you guys? A waste!" What a wench!

LE never released the tape of the last visit G&C had with Casey when she was in jail. It was supposedly a 45 minute visit and Cindy came out crying and George came out swinging. I can only imagine that it was explosive, even though they knew it was being taped. Casey must have given them some more lies that really set them off.

[deputydi]

I'd love to know how the defense is going to bring all this information out for us to understand without putting Casey on the stand? If there is some bulls*&^ story out there about being carjacked or a victim of a crime, how in the world are they going to get it out without questioning her. If they put her on the stand, she'll start making up more stories. She will bask in the glory of being questioned and who knows what she will come up with. I hope she takes the stand. I'll have to day the day off and load up on snacks in the house for that performance.
Me too!!!!!

I would just love to see her take the stand, but I don't hold out much hope for that. As inexperienced as Baez is, even HE has to know that would be a fatal mistake.

In response to applesandoranges post -- don't worry your pretty little head about her conviction. There was virtually NO forensics presented in Scott's trial and he was convicted solely on circumstantial evidence. The circumstantial evidence they have here IMO is overwhelming and they do have some forensics that can't be explained away.

[Gatordog]

Local updates: Channel 13 news had on a local defense attorney analyzing the forensic report that was released on Friday. His theory was that she had to have had help. He feels she had help from a very intelligent person who had experience with law enforcement. He said the trunk was way too clean and should have had more biological evidence. He said someone with LE knowledge cleaned out that trunk and knew what to do.

Weatherwise - things are looking very good for the seach. We did have rain last Thursday and Friday but not enough to add more water. Also, a cold front has come through and another one is coming tomorrow which will bring temps down to the 40's in the morning. This is great because it will kill off a lot of vegetation and will make searching a lot easier. Hopefully, it will be cold enough to thin out a lot of underbrush in the search areas.

Gator :)

[mu8shark]

This is something I have been thinking about, Jose Baez says when all is revealed, we will understand. Two things, why would they not go to the police and say Okay here is the true story, please help us find her. I mean , who says to themselves, I won't tell the police right now, I will wait until I spend months upon months in jail and my parents spend a million or so on my defense and then I will tell the truth that exonerates me? It's absurd. And two, how are they going to tell Casey's story without her testimony? I don't think Cindy can get up there and tell some story like Casey told me this and this. Even if it is admitted, the prosecution is going to say, 'And didn't she also tell you on the first day that Casey was fine and she was sleeping at the Nanny's? And didn't she tell you that she worked at Universal? And didn't she tell you that Zani lived at Sawgrass apartments? Didn't all these statements turn out to be untrue? Would you say Mrs Anthony Casey has a history of lying?" I just don't see how Casey can present another story without testifying. Baez can't just argue a theory, if it assumes events not admitted into evidence. He has to have testimony. Another thing I just saw that is rather disturbing. This quote. Is it safe to say you believe the babysitter story?" WFTV reporter Steve Barrett asked attorney Jose Baez.

"Absolutely," he said. Huh? Are they going with the same old story about Zenaida Gonzalez? If so, this is a weak , lame defense. How will he present his final arguments. Believe us even if all the information Casey gave was disproved to be a lie, pretend you are in the Twilight Zone . Yikes what insanity.

[deputydi]

Local updates: Channel 13 news had on a local defense attorney analyzing the forensic report that was released on Friday. His theory was that she had to have had help. He feels she had help from a very intelligent person who had experience with law enforcement. He said the trunk was way too clean and should have had more biological evidence. He said someone with LE knowledge cleaned out that trunk and knew what to do.

Weatherwise - things are looking very good for the seach. We did have rain last Thursday and Friday but not enough to add more water. Also, a cold front has come through and another one is coming tomorrow which will bring temps down to the 40's in the morning. This is great because it will kill off a lot of vegetation and will make searching a lot easier. Hopefully, it will be cold enough to thin out a lot of underbrush in the search areas.

Gator :)
My first thought was George but then I remembered the cop who was fired because he lied about having a sexual relationship with the town tramp. If LE is thinking along the same lines, this could be their smoking gun. Get the fired cop to testify against her and her fate is sealed.

Could this have been the well dressed pretend fisherman who the witness saw when Casey was coming out of the woods?

[mu8shark]

I'd love to know how the defense is going to bring all this information out for us to understand without putting Casey on the stand? If there is some bulls*&^ story out there about being carjacked or a victim of a crime, how in the world are they going to get it out without questioning her. If they put her on the stand, she'll start making up more stories. She will bask in the glory of being questioned and who knows what she will come up with. I hope she takes the stand. I'll have to day the day off and load up on snacks in the house for that performance. LOL, I am laughing because we seem to be on the same page at the same time. I typed my post and went back to read what others were talking about and lo and behold we are all wondering the same thing. See my most recent post!

[deputydi]

Don't forget, gator -- the defense doesn't have to prove a thing or put a single witness on the stand. His sole job is to create reasonable doubt in the state's case. I don't think he can do that, but the burden is not on him to prove her innocence.

[mu8shark]

My first thought was George but then I remembered the cop who was fired because he lied about having a sexual relationship with the town tramp. If LE is thinking along the same lines, this could be their smoking gun. Get the fired cop to testify against her and her fate is sealed.

Could this have been the well dressed pretend fisherman who the witness saw when Casey was coming out of the woods? My first thought was Lee. I know Cindys brother said Lee was a hard worker and so I kind of thought he had a good job , maybe at an office. I bet the cell phone records tell a tale of who she called around the time she dumped the body and I think LE has an idea of that time because she texted Amy and said, I got rid of the smell in the car. I also was suspicious of George's story about the day he wanted to get in the trunk and Casey would not let him. Because he told the story on Greta much different than he did to LE. And I wonder if he saw a body in the trunk that day and Casey pleaded with him to help her. I am not sure I believe that guy as everything he said has been in the news, the shovel , the car, the area. That was a mistake on LE's part, revealing too much. If they find the body I can hear the defense now saying, Well but of course the kidnappers heard about the pings and dumped the body there to frame Casey. Don't think that will fly but they will try that.

[beachbum]

Geraldo commented on his show Sat. night that he thinks they dont have enough evidence against Casey. NG feels differently. I just hope there is more than they have told us.

[mu8shark]

Don't forget, gator -- the defense doesn't have to prove a thing or put a single witness on the stand. His sole job is to create reasonable doubt in the state's case. I don't think he can do that, but the burden is not on him to prove her innocence. But it has to be reasonable, the judge is not going to allow a bunch of wild theories without foundation. In the Peterson trial, the cult theory made it into the media but not the trial , as Geragos could not come up with a foundation or a nexus. I think Cindy thinks that if they got 50 emails or phone calls saying they saw Caylee, all those will come in, they won't. If they have a credible one it will come in. And after saying we will understand he has to have some testimony. Casey seems to me to be a bit fearless, like all sociopaths they think they can just convince everybody of everything.. I can see her wanting to testify. Maybe she will wear her Jackie O sunglasses. :)

[mu8shark]

Geraldo commented on his show Sat. night that he thinks they dont have enough evidence against Casey. NG feels differently. I just hope there is more than they have told us.I still say that even with what they have released it is powerful. The hair with the death band that has the same mitrochrondial dna on it as Caylee is very telling. If the defense tries to say "Well it could be from a body of someone else that is dead in the Anthony family or maybe it was from a complete stranger in Caseys trunk," how is that going to look? It is beyond incredible. Remember too that her own mother and father mentioned it smelled like a dead body. Remember that Casey texted about the dead smell. Remember the tow truck manager said it smelled like a dead body. These are not exactly enemies of Caseys, some are her relatives. And lo and behold the dogs hit on that trunk. Is the defense going to suggest all those people are wrong or out to get Casey? Nancy is right, what mother looks up chloroform and then what do you know it is found in her trunk. I bet if you watch Nancy tonight and she is back, the show will have a different spin. Almost all the guests on Nancy had a defense attorneys hat on the other night.

[deputydi]

But it has to be reasonable, the judge is not going to allow a bunch of wild theories without foundation. In the Peterson trial, the cult theory made it into the media but not the trial , as Geragos could not come up with a foundation or a nexus. I think Cindy thinks that if they got 50 emails or phone calls saying they saw Caylee, all those will come in, they won't. If they have a credible one it will come in. And after saying we will understand he has to have some testimony. Casey seems to me to be a bit fearless, like all sociopaths they think they can just convince everybody of everything.. I can see her wanting to testify. Maybe she will wear her Jackie O sunglasses. :)
You are right, of course. The thing is, they don't have to present any theory of what may have happened to Caylee -- all they have to do (and, it can be done under cross exam without calling a single witness for the defense) is show that there is reasonable doubt that Caylee is dead. IMO that's going to be tough, but you can never predict with any amount of certainty what a jury is going to do. Stranger things have happened.

[deputydi]

I still say that even with what they have released it is powerful. The hair with the death band that has the same mitrochrondial dna on it as Caylee is very telling. If the defense tries to say "Well it could be from a body of someone else that is dead in the Anthony family or maybe it was from a complete stranger in Caseys trunk," how is that going to look? It is beyond incredible. Remember too that her own mother and father mentioned it smelled like a dead body. Remember that Casey texted about the dead smell. Remember the tow truck manager said it smelled like a dead body. These are not exactly enemies of Caseys, some are her relatives. And lo and behold the dogs hit on that trunk. Is the defense going to suggest all those people are wrong or out to get Casey? Nancy is right, what mother looks up chloroform and then what do you know it is found in her trunk. I bet if you watch Nancy tonight and she is back, the show will have a different spin. Almost all the guests on Nancy had a defense attorneys hat on the other night.
The 911 tape of Cindy saying "it smells like a dead body has been in the damn car" will be played for the jury to hear. This isn't someone's testimony, it's Cindy's own voice and her first reaction to the odor. It will be nearly impossible to get around that statement. Isn't Cindy a nurse who would probably be familiar with that distinctive smell either in practice or in her training.

[mu8shark]

The hair found in the trunk establishes that Caylee's dead and that her dead body was in the trunk of the car. Even if they don't find the body, it's enough evidence, scientific evidence, to establish that she's dead," said Dr. Michael Baden, nationally-renowned forensic pathologist.

DNA testing done on that piece of hair and compared with a sample provided by Casey confirmed that neither Casey nor Caylee can be "excluded as the source of the hair," because the "mtDNA sequences ... are the same."

Tests also confirmed "residues of chloroform" within a spare tire cover found inside the trunk of Casey's car. "Residues consistent with chloroform" were also found within the left and right side trunk liner. The report says no other chemicals were detected within those items. Coupled with evidence that someone on Casey's computer was researching how to make chloroform, it could explain how Caylee was murdered.

"That would indicate that chloroform has to be considered as a cause of the baby's death," Dr. Baden said.

Odor tests that were conducted on the carpet inside Casey's car concluded that 80 percent of the chemicals identified were "consistent with decompositional events." The results of the FBI's Laser-Induced Breakdown Spectroscopy (LIBS) on the same carpet concluded that "while these are still preliminary results ... both odor analysis and LIBS results appear to be quite consistent with a decompositional event having occurred in the trunk of the vehicle."

The report also clarifies that the tests conducted appear to point to human decomposition and not animal. Meanwhile, a hair fragment the FBI found on the shovel Casey borrowed from her neighbor days after investigators believe Caylee was murdered, but that hair did not match Caylee or Casey.

The report's final conclusion is that the results of the tests and comparisons indicate "that a portion of the total odor signature identified in the Florida vehicle trunk is consistent with a decompositional event that could be of human origin."

The details of the report released Friday are probably part of what the grand jury heard last week before indicting Casey, but it's not all of the evidence. The thousands of tips that were called in on the case are expected to be released soon and Eyewitness News has learned the vast majority of them are from psychics.

[mu8shark]

The 911 tape of Cindy saying "it smells like a dead body has been in the damn car" will be played for the jury to hear. This isn't someone's testimony, it's Cindy's own voice and her first reaction to the odor. It will be nearly impossible to get around that statement. Isn't Cindy a nurse who would probably be familiar with that distinctive smell either in practice or in her training. I see that tape as being so damning, her own mother! Also there is another tv interview where Cindy points out that she and George know what a dead body smells like and it was their initial reaction. Yes she was a nurse and she says that in the taped interview.If I were the pros I would hammer that home.

[Gatordog]

LOL, I am laughing because we seem to be on the same page at the same time. I typed my post and went back to read what others were talking about and lo and behold we are all wondering the same thing. See my most recent post!

What can I say but..Great minds think alike! :beer:

[Gatordog]

Don't forget, gator -- the defense doesn't have to prove a thing or put a single witness on the stand. His sole job is to create reasonable doubt in the state's case. I don't think he can do that, but the burden is not on him to prove her innocence.

Hi Deputy, you are right but this defense has a mountain to climb. How can they possibly create reasonable doubt when all she has done is lie? There isn't even reasonable doubt in her lies, they have definitely been proven to be false and misleading.

[deputydi]

I see that tape as being so damning, her own mother! Also there is another tv interview where Cindy points out that she and George know what a dead body smells like and it was their initial reaction. Yes she was a nurse and she says that in the taped interview.If I were the pros I would hammer that home.
I do too! How on earth do you suppose Baez & Co can spin this? Cindy has also said that the smell wasn't there before it was towed but we know it was by Casey's text messages. Also, Cindy didn't even know where the car was before it was towed so how would she know whether or not it smelled.

[mu8shark]

What can I say but..Great minds think alike! :beer:
Back at ya:beer:

[mu8shark]

I do too! How on earth do you suppose Baez & Co can spin this? Cindy has also said that the smell wasn't there before it was towed but we know it was by Casey's text messages. Also, Cindy didn't even know where the car was before it was towed so how would she know whether or not it smelled.She says the tow yard manager said in is police interview that the car did not smell until it was at the tow yard for five days. Trouble is, I have read the interview in its entirety, the only thing he says about five days at all is that they once had a car that smelled the same way and they discovered a man had killed himself in the car and laid there for five days before LE found him. It is another case. And anyway it would not make sense that every time a car came in the tow yard manager went to smell the car on each day until he finally smelled something. That does not sound like a plausible part of his job to smell cars that come in on every day. LOL. Cindy just twisted his interview.

[Gatordog]

You are right, of course. The thing is, they don't have to present any theory of what may have happened to Caylee -- all they have to do (and, it can be done under cross exam without calling a single witness for the defense) is show that there is reasonable doubt that Caylee is dead. IMO that's going to be tough, but you can never predict with any amount of certainty what a jury is going to do. Stranger things have happened.

I guess we just have to hope that the prosecutor picks the right jury. I've watched courttv since the very beginning and I've seen trials where I thought the person was innocent and they were found guilty and I've seen people who I thought were guilty as sin, go free. They need to get mothers, grandmothers, technical people and medical people. No young men, single men or grandfatherly men. They might not believe Casey capable of such a crime. I am sure she will walk into that court looking like Polly Pure and she will try to make eye contact with just one juror to get a hung jury and mistrial.

[deacon]

She says the tow yard manager said in is police interview that the car did not smell until it was at the tow yard for five days. Trouble is, I have read the interview in its entirety, the only thing he says about five days at all is that they once had a car that smelled the same way and they discovered a man had killed himself in the car and laid there for five days before LE found him. It is another case. And anyway it would not make sense that every time a car came in the tow yard manager went to smell the car on each day until he finally smelled something. That does not sound like a plausible part of his job to smell cars that come in on every day. LOL. Cindy just twisted his interview.

She is grasping at straws. Same thing casey is doing or was doing. Her lawyer just told her to shut up and cindy either didn't get that advice soon enough or didn't listen when she got it. All the lies and half truths just cut into your credibility as a witness. I don't see how either of these two could be good witnesses for the defence.

[deacon]

I guess we just have to hope that the prosecutor picks the right jury. I've watched courttv since the very beginning and I've seen trials where I thought the person was innocent and they were found guilty and I've seen people who I thought were guilty as sin, go free. They need to get mothers, grandmothers, technical people and medical people. No young men, single men or grandfatherly men. They might not believe Casey capable of such a crime. I am sure she will walk into that court looking like Polly Pure and she will try to make eye contact with just one juror to get a hung jury and mistrial.

young men I agree with. For obviouse reasons. Now the grandfatherly men, we would hang her from the highest tree. As one ages one comes to really believe "beauty is only skin deep, ugly goes slam to the bone." She seems to be one ugly creature. You see, being of the grandfather age, it is good I am not her father, hurt my grandaughter and you will rot in he--!

[mu8shark]

She is grasping at straws. Same thing casey is doing or was doing. Her lawyer just told her to shut up and cindy either didn't get that advice soon enough or didn't listen when she got it. All the lies and half truths just cut into your credibility as a witness. I don't see how either of these two could be good witnesses for the defence.Boy are you right on the mark! Cindys credability is shot. If they had a lawyer with any sense in the beginning he would of told her to shut up.It would be one thing if they just made one statement like we support our daughter or stand by our daughter but as it she has told the bogus pizza story, she said maybe somebody at the tow yard put a body in there and it is out that she tried to accuse Jesse Grund. I am like you, how in the world is she going to be a good witness. Why would anyone believe her?

[deputydi]

Boy are you right on the mark! Cindys credability is shot. If they had a lawyer with any sense in the beginning he would of told her to shut up.It would be one thing if they just made one statement like we support our daughter or stand by our daughter but as it she has told the bogus pizza story, she said maybe somebody at the tow yard put a body in there and it is out that she tried to accuse Jesse Grund. I am like you, how in the world is she going to be a good witness. Why would anyone believe her?
Not only will no one believe a word she says, the prosecutor will have her for dinner. She has made way too many statements that will be ripped apart during her cross.

[SaraSidle]

Alot of good legal minds here. Do you think any of the jail conversations will be let in? I cant recall of any cases where i did hear any? I am thinking of the call where her only concern seemed to be getting Tony's number. Not that any of the other recorded calls look good for her either. Could some of it be let in to show state of mind?:rose:

Actually I would like the tape played with her and Tony where they speak in code and may be he can explain it.........imo sara

[SaraSidle]

Sometimes, when I am following a case I try to step back and look at the biggest mistake the person made and in Caseys case, the thing that will really come back to bite her in the butt is that she waited 31 days to report her child missing and even then her mother had to force the issue. This is just unfathomable. Who does not go to the police? Even in kidnappings where the kidnappers tell them not to contact LE, people do. Casey is the daughter of a cop, she had to know that the police had tons of resources and power to subpoena records she did not have. I have two cousins who are kind of following this story and when I told them about it initially both separately said the same thing, How could she wait that long to tell the police? Or to tell anybody? This just makes no sense and I think it will just clobber the jury. I had a dog run off one day when she slipped out from her collar and I called everybody. I was frantic. I found her safe , thank the lord but who is going to be able to get by this?


Just love your new avatar. the other thing that bothers me is that she may have waited that long on purpose to hurt the evidence. remember she had dated 2 cops also besides her dad and she may have gotten some advice.
I am watching Kobi argue with Nancy. She is really pinning him down and he wants nothing to do with it. Anyways there cannot be anything if much left of Baby Caylee by this time with the florida heat and terrain. IMO sara

[mu8shark]

Just love your new avatar. the other thing that bothers me is that she may have waited that long on purpose to hurt the evidence. remember she had dated 2 cops also besides her dad and she may have gotten some advice.
I am watching Kobi argue with Nancy. She is really pinning him down and he wants nothing to do with it. Anyways there cannot be anything if much left of Baby Caylee by this time with the florida heat and terrain. IMO sara
Hi Sara, his argument is so lame. That smell was in the car when Casey was driving it! By her own admission on her texts. So is Kobe actually saying like some traveling salesman with the same mitrochronidal dna crawled in there and died? While Casey was in control of the car. before she dumped it? This random person being in the trunk is just absurd and a jury will be asking themselves the same question, who if not Caylee and show me some nexus to another person that could have died in there. [/QUOTE]

[mu8shark]

I agree that the defense will try to make something of it , if they don't find the body. I think they will find it. If they did not look, the defense would make something of that too. I think Cindy getting so angry at Tim Miller for organizing a search to look for a dead Caylee is telling. She does not want that body found.

[SaraSidle]

I agree that the defense will try to make something of it , if they don't find the body. I think they will find it. If they did not look, the defense would make something of that too. I think Cindy getting so angry at Tim Miller for organizing a search to look for a dead Caylee is telling. She does not want that body found.

yeah but I am sure nervous about reasonable doubt and between witness, pings, dna evidence it is going to be shakey. And I do not have the confidence you do they will find Caylee. I would like nothing more but the more time passes it is unlikely...........IMO sara

[lorettalockhorn]

yeah but I am sure nervous about reasonable doubt and between witness, pings, dna evidence it is going to be shakey. And I do not have the confidence you do they will find Caylee. I would like nothing more but the more time passes it is unlikely...........IMO sara

Conditions seem to be improving for the 11/8 search. I'm hopeful. In the meantime, the Anthonys are conducting what appears to be a fruitless search for a live Caylee. Wonder how they'll testify about that.

The 911 tape of Cindy saying "it smells like a dead body has been in the damn car" will be played for the jury to hear. This isn't someone's testimony, it's Cindy's own voice and her first reaction to the odor. It will be nearly impossible to get around that statement. Isn't Cindy a nurse who would probably be familiar with that distinctive smell either in practice or in her training.

RE: Cindy's statement to the 911 operator about the smell of a dead body; that is one of the most fractious things I've ever heard anyone speak of. Where was the desperation? The worry? The caring?

[SaraSidle]

Conditions seem to be improving for the 11/8 search. I'm hopeful. In the meantime, the Anthonys are conducting what appears to be a fruitless search for a live Caylee. Wonder how they'll testify about that.

RE: Cindy's statement to the 911 operator about the smell of a dead body; that is one of the most fractious things I've ever heard anyone speak of. Where was the desperation? The worry? The caring?

Well I cannot speak much for Cindy cause I do not know what her mind was thinking or denying at the time. But Loretta in that temp the body would decompose and as that happens small animals and birds go after it. I mean at this time it could be spread out over 5 miles. I sure to heck hope she was wrapped in something so this would not happen. I used to work in the morgue at Uof M in Ann Arbor and even though I do not know a lot of details I have seen much decomp which makes me discouraged. Maybe if they ahd sent out 8000 voluteers July 15 we might have something. sorry to be morbid. not something I like. You know I want that baby home and MOM dp. IMO sara

[Brainstorm]

Jumping in to say, I do believe they will find her.I just feel they will.From what I gathered,she didnt leave the area,so that child is there,somewhere. UNLESS she had a helper who took the body,but WHO would DARE DO THAT !!

[lorettalockhorn]

I do too! How on earth do you suppose Baez & Co can spin this? Cindy has also said that the smell wasn't there before it was towed but we know it was by Casey's text messages. Also, Cindy didn't even know where the car was before it was towed so how would she know whether or not it smelled.

EXACTLY!

Or maybe she's lying. The tree doesn't grow far from the nut, ya know.

[SaraSidle]

Jumping in to say, I do believe they will find her.I just feel they will.From what I gathered,she didnt leave the area,so that child is there,somewhere. UNLESS she had a helper who took the body,but WHO would DARE DO THAT !!

LOL with all her men that might not be hard to pull off. I still think the environment has taken that angel but I will try to be positive. BS.

[mu8shark]

yeah but I am sure nervous about reasonable doubt and between witness, pings, dna evidence it is going to be shakey. And I do not have the confidence you do they will find Caylee. I would like nothing more but the more time passes it is unlikely...........IMO sara But even Kobilinksy who is testifying for the defense has said that the post mortem death band is strong evidence. If he backpedals they will show the clip of him saying so. And i do not think they are going to be able to seriously pose the theory it was another dead body in her trunk with the same mitrochronidal dna. I mean how likely is that? Finding the body will prove she is dead. Also i noticed in the article I posted from wftv that they said they have not released all the physical evidence they have. I suspect they have something even stronger. Nobody has said anything so far about that mysterious stain. So I suspect what they are withholding has to do with that stain, probably decomp fluid. I respectfully disagree that is a shakey case.

[SaraSidle]

EXACTLY!

Or maybe she's lying. The tree doesn't grow far from the nut, ya know.

You know Loretta I may be a jerk here but I keep going back to reasonable doubt. and possibly a diminished capacity. I just do not trust juries but on the other hand as you said where would we move jurisdiction too? IMO sara

[Brainstorm]

young men I agree with. For obviouse reasons. Now the grandfatherly men, we would hang her from the highest tree. As one ages one comes to really believe "beauty is only skin deep, ugly goes slam to the bone." She seems to be one ugly creature. You see, being of the grandfather age, it is good I am not her father, hurt my grandaughter and you will rot in he--!ITA,deacon,as my brother would say,She's ugly with a capital U !!!!

LOL with all her men that might not be hard to pull off. I still think the environment has taken that angel but I will try to be positive. BS.
Please do.
Im hoping they at least find her little skeleton.I dont see Casey being brave enough to go deep in the woods or swamps,but I could be wrong. If so, and a gator was around, Im worried.
You're right about ALL the men, but is she that good, for anyone to help with THIS? If someone did, they need to be singing like a bird,imo.

[lorettalockhorn]

You know Loretta I may be a jerk here but I keep going back to reasonable doubt. and possibly a diminished capacity. I just do not trust juries but on the other hand as you said where would we move jurisdiction too? IMO sara

I don't think the article today mentioned where the change of venue might be. Mars maybe??

I look at it this way; the jury will likely be made up of people like us. Not necessarily people who think she's guilty, but people who think the way that we do. That hair in the trunk had a familial link to Casey and Caylee, and was most likely a child due to the absence of fluorides. What child could that be? Which child is missing? Why hasn't LE in other jurisdictions or the families of other missing children subpoenaed the DNA test results from this case? The jury will not be able to deny probabilities.

[lorettalockhorn]

ITA,deacon,as my brother would say,She's ugly with a capital U !!!!



Fugly with a capital Eff.

(Okay, Loretta. No more bashing. For today.)

[SaraSidle]

ITA,deacon,as my brother would say,She's ugly with a capital U !!!!


Please do.
Im hoping they at least find her little skeleton.I dont see Casey being brave enough to go deep in the woods or swamps,but I could be wrong. If so, and a gator was around, Im worried.
You're right about ALL the men, but is she that good, for anyone to help with THIS? If someone did, they need to be singing like a bird,imo.

Well I am hoping for someone to sing. someone must know. Caylee had to be wrapped up in something to be found in one piece skeleton or not. I think Casey is such a songbird and needy i would not be surprised if she had help either. IMO sara. BS I do pray everyday she will be found. btw

[Brainstorm]

Fugly with a capital Eff.

(Okay, Loretta. No more bashing. For today.)

Right!!
bashing? us? no way. The truth is the truth. That girl just better be glad this grandma type cant reach her. I could honestly slap her waaaaay back into last year.MHO

[SaraSidle]

Right!!
bashing? us? no way. The truth is the truth. That girl just better be glad this grandma type cant reach her. I could honestly slap her waaaaay back into last year.MHO

Make a deal.......I will hold her down. (I am tall and muscular) and you shoot her up with truth serum............LOL IMO sara:beer:

[Brainstorm]

Well I am hoping for someone to sing. someone must know. Caylee had to be wrapped up in something to be found in one piece skeleton or not. I think Casey is such a songbird and needy i would not be surprised if she had help either. IMO sara. BS I do pray everyday she will be found. btw

I know you do. I can tell sincerity and genuine concern when I see it and you've proved yourself,imo,sara.
Didnt I read somewhere that the searchers were told to look for something rolled up(like a rug,towel) or Bag. I took that to mean like a gym bag.
Or is this just standard and not because they had a clue of such?
Or was that something not even with this case.Anybody else remember?

[Brainstorm]

Make a deal.......I will hold her down. (I am tall and muscular) and you shoot her up with truth serum............LOL IMO sara:beer:

You can push me. I will fall on her and scream(very softly)"Ive fallen and cant get up"
No way she can breathe.End of story. End of Casey.
An accident.

[mu8shark]

You know Loretta I may be a jerk here but I keep going back to reasonable doubt. and possibly a diminished capacity. I just do not trust juries but on the other hand as you said where would we move jurisdiction too? IMO sara But in a diminished capacity defense she has to admit , yes I did it but I am not responsible for my actions because of a mental impairment. She will not admit it. Also, typically in most states there is no flat out not guilty due to diminished capacity, only that the jury could find for manslaughter instead of murder. So she would not get off. And finally legal insanity succeeds in less than 1 per cent of cases, diminished capacity succeeds in even fewer. There was too much premediation ala the looking up of missing children and chloroform plus lots of scheming to cover up. No way. I wouldn't worry about that. SHe will not admit she did it.

[Brainstorm]

Wow,Mark Klass is on NG saying the search,is half-baked idea !!!(upwards of 8 thousand? !!!!!!!)
I disagree with him, for the first time, I guess. He's saying they may destroy evidence.BUT IMO, the little body NEEDS to be found. There is already enough evidence,IMOO.So, walk arm in arm,every square inch and find her.LP really sounds positive that they will. I do hope and pray so.

[mu8shark]

Wow,Mark Klass is on NG saying the search,is half-baked idea !!!(upwards of 8 thousand? !!!!!!!)
I disagree with him, for the first time, I guess. He's saying they may destroy evidence.BUT IMO, the little body NEEDS to be found. There is already enough evidence,IMOO.So, walk arm in arm,every square inch and find her.LP really sounds positive that they will. I do hope and pray so. I agree with you, just because they may not find it is no excuse not to look. On most of the searches not all the volunteers are trained. They brief them beforehand. It will be okay. It would look bad in court if they did not look like they did not believe in their own theory.

[mu8shark]

By the way the info link on this site says the trial date is set for Feb 9. Also on another note, on June 27 is the date that Casey texted Amy about getting rid of the source of the smell. So i bet they are locating pings from that date.

[Brainstorm]

By the way the info link on this site says the trial date is set for Feb 9. Also on another note, on June 27 is the date that Casey texted Amy about getting rid of the source of the smell. So i bet they are locating pings from that date.

LP was just saying that the pings,then a period of about 18 min. when she was NOT on the phone might be the crucial time and they pin pointed it,in his opinion,iirc.

[deacon]

Not only will no one believe a word she says, the prosecutor will have her for dinner. She has made way too many statements that will be ripped apart during her cross.

Yes, and on the stand she will not be able to dismiss the questions that are asked like she does with the media. She can not walk away and not talk. She must answer. A lot different set of circumstances. She will not fare welll

[deputydi]

But in a diminished capacity defense she has to admit , yes I did it but I am not responsible for my actions because of a mental impairment. She will not admit it. Also, typically in most states there is no flat out not guilty due to diminished capacity, only that the jury could find for manslaughter instead of murder. So she would not get off. And finally legal insanity succeeds in less than 1 per cent of cases, diminished capacity succeeds in even fewer. There was too much premediation ala the looking up of missing children and chloroform plus lots of scheming to cover up. No way. I wouldn't worry about that. SHe will not admit she did it.
Absolutely correct on all points.

[Gatordog]

Actually I would like the tape played with her and Tony where they speak in code and may be he can explain it.........imo sara

Not Tony - it was her brother Lee.

[Gatordog]

You know Loretta I may be a jerk here but I keep going back to reasonable doubt. and possibly a diminished capacity. I just do not trust juries but on the other hand as you said where would we move jurisdiction too? IMO sara

Diminished capacity? That I don't see at all - Casey and Cindy are not ignorant or stupid women. Neither is learning challenged. They are both shrewd and use lying to avoid tough situations. They both know right from wrong but choose to manipulate situations to their benefit. That is not diminished capacity. You've heard the tapes of Casey speaking to the detectives, she is far from incapable or smart. Casey's down fall is her ego not her intelligence.

[Gatordog]

young men I agree with. For obviouse reasons. Now the grandfatherly men, we would hang her from the highest tree. As one ages one comes to really believe "beauty is only skin deep, ugly goes slam to the bone." She seems to be one ugly creature. You see, being of the grandfather age, it is good I am not her father, hurt my grandaughter and you will rot in he--!

Deacon, your are right about grandfathers. I thought hard about that one and then thought of my father. He has mellowed in his years and now seems to be much more forgiving than he used to be. Buty I think he was more emotional when younger and now he is more rational. I know he wound find her guilty especially if he relates it to his own grandchildren.

[Gatordog]

I have to be a believer that there is more evidence to this that has not been released or is still being evaluated. For instance, I may be dealing in science fiction, but this area is close to the airport and we don't know what kind of security measures they have in place. I remember when Carla Bruni was murdered in Sarasota, they used Kennedy Space Center and NASA to refine the photography and were tracking satellites to see if any might have been photographing the area.

As to find Caylee and bringing her home. I don't think that will happen. They might find enough evidence to prove she was out there, but brinning her back might prove impossible. They might find some bones scattered, but that's all they need for prosecution.

[deputydi]

I have to be a believer that there is more evidence to this that has not been released or is still being evaluated. For instance, I may be dealing in science fiction, but this area is close to the airport and we don't know what kind of security measures they have in place. I remember when Carla Bruni was murdered in Sarasota, they used Kennedy Space Center and NASA to refine the photography and were tracking satellites to see if any might have been photographing the area.

As to find Caylee and bringing her home. I don't think that will happen. They might find enough evidence to prove she was out there, but brinning her back might prove impossible. They might find some bones scattered, but that's all they need for prosecution.
All they need is to find something that proves Caylee is dead. I believe they can extract DNA from bone, can't they? Anyone know???

[lorettalockhorn]

According to channel 6, the trial is set for January:

ORLANDO, Fla. -- The mother of a missing 3-year-old Orlando girl charged with her murder reaffirmed her not guilty plea at an arraignment and will stand trial in January.

From WFTV:

Judge Stan Strickland accepted the written plea and that means the state now has 15 days to hand over evidence to Casey's attorney, Jose Baez, that the state plans to use in the trial against her. Any new evidence the state plans to make use of also must be handed over to Baez as they get it.

The state also asked the judge to move the trial period back from a previously set date in early February, possibly to put more pressure of the defense,. The judge agreed and Casey's pre-trial conference is now set for December 11 and the trial is set for January 5.

http://www.wftv.com/news/17819575/detail.html

[Brainstorm]

Diminished capacity? That I don't see at all - Casey and Cindy are not ignorant or stupid women. Neither is learning challenged. They are both shrewd and use lying to avoid tough situations. They both know right from wrong but choose to manipulate situations to their benefit. That is not diminished capacity. You've heard the tapes of Casey speaking to the detectives, she is far from incapable or smart. Casey's down fall is her ego not her intelligence.

The ONLY things diminished about her is her MORALS and conscience,imo

[Brainstorm]

According to channel 6, the trial is set for January:

ORLANDO, Fla. -- The mother of a missing 3-year-old Orlando girl charged with her murder reaffirmed her not guilty plea at an arraignment and will stand trial in January.

From WFTV:

Judge Stan Strickland accepted the written plea and that means the state now has 15 days to hand over evidence to Casey's attorney, Jose Baez, that the state plans to use in the trial against her. Any new evidence the state plans to make use of also must be handed over to Baez as they get it.

The state also asked the judge to move the trial period back from a previously set date in early February, possibly to put more pressure of the defense,. The judge agreed and Casey's pre-trial conference is now set for December 11 and the trial is set for January 5.

http://www.wftv.com/news/17819575/detail.html



Here comes the JUDGE !!!! I do hope this goes forward and the sooner,the better,imo.
GOooooooooooooo, Judge!!!!!!

[Brainstorm]

If it means only finding a tiny piece of that little darling, so be it. I just pray there will be enough DNA in there to put her #@*%!* (excuse my french) mother away, so be it! Since we know a shovel was used in those 18 minutes, she dug most of the time. Putting Caylee in and pushing dirt over..possibly 4 min or so. I think the chances of finding most of her body are excellent ~ it's the decomposition I don't know about. With 7,000 + people walking 1 to 2 feet apart means a lot! They know where they are looking, thanks to her love affair with the phone.

Since I cannot remember right now, does anyone know offhand the amount of days, or time frame from when she made the frantic flurry of phone calls to her mother and father that day to the 18 min silence? You see, it almost doesn't matter how long she kept Caylee in the trunk, really, because moving the body to hide it until she decided what to do figures in here.

They can't be stupid enough to try insanity, can they? :no: Too many lies, too many excuses, tells anyone within hearing distance that she knew what she was covering up, and she pulled it off for 31 loooonnng days.



I agree,OS.That lapse in time,when she was NOT using the phone,may be the most important time frame. IMO SHE probably didnt do too much digging.That might cause a callous,or worse,break a nail!!!!

[lorettalockhorn]

Yes it's always been my understanding they can. I believe from the marrow? MOO. Wow i cant get over the size of the upcoming search. if they are not able to find her they will certainly be able to show every effort was taken humanly possible. MOO

We know that there are some methods, because they have been used to identify soldier remains and WTC remains; found a couple of citations:

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:2yxiQVo4TEAJ:www.cmj.hr/2007/48/4/Ahead/CMJ_48(4)_MARJANOVIC.pdf+dna+identification+from+b one&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us

Also:



Abstract

Obtaining DNA sequences, particularly nuclear DNA, from museum specimens is challenging. We sequenced nuclear DNA from small bone fragments of skeletonized and fluid-fixed museum specimens of squamate reptiles by using a forensic protocol developed for isolating DNA from human bones. The method yielded high quality nuclear DNA sequences from bones taken from 11 of 21 (52.4%) skeletonized or desiccated specimens, the oldest of which dated back to 1938, and 1 of 9 (11.1%) fluid-preserved specimens, which was collected in 1957.


(Published Online May 30 2006)
(Received January 2005)
(Accepted September 2005)


http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract;jsessionid=4DBD6A61EF60F14C8537D8E A6624B626.tomcat1?fromPage=online&aid=440965

Of course, there a too many articles to read or cite (or understand), but just wanted to do a little cheerleading.

[deputydi]

<snip>They can't be stupid enough to try insanity, can they? :no: Too many lies, too many excuses, tells anyone within hearing distance that she knew what she was covering up, and she pulled it off for 31 loooonnng days.



I understand your concern, but you have no need to worry. As several of us have pointed out, in order to plead insanity Casey would have to admit she murdered Caylee and that's not ever going to happen. A jury is going to have to tell this amoral B***H she's not going to get away with anything this time.

[deputydi]

<snip>Of course, there a too many articles to read or cite (or understand), but just wanted to do a little cheerleading.

Wow. Thanks for the information, loretta. I nominate you for head cheerleader.

[Brainstorm]

I understand your concern, but you have no need to worry. As several of us have pointed out, in order to plead insanity Casey would have to admit she murdered Caylee and that's not ever going to happen. A jury is going to have to tell this amoral B***H she's not going to get away with anything this time.

Its beyond me that someone can sit there,taking up time/money of the courts and EACH person that will have to be involved.
Up until this point she was the best customer the phone company ever had.She was an excellent LIAR and MANIPULATOR.Running her mouth non-stop.Talk,talk,talk.
NOW,there she sits,not a word.
In court,(probably)not a word.
IMO, she has lost her soul already to the devil,theres no other way to explain Casey,imo.
and he's probably perched up there on her shoulder telling her she's still HOT !

[deputydi]

Well said Brain!!! Thats what i luv about socio's it's usually their words or actions that hang them in the long run. In this case it's both. They dont view things the way we do and cant understand why would not believe them. Yes the thoughts of Casey spending her life in a cell with no shopping,drinks,men etc. etc. kinda appeals to me for justice. MOO
I don't know offhand what FL's execution rate is and how long the avg person is on death row, but wouldn't it kind of be poetic justice for her to sit in a jail cell for the next 50 or 60 years? As you said -- "no shopping, drinks, men, etc" -- would be the worst punishment imaginable for her. She would have little to do being isolated from the rest of the prison population and might be forced to really think about what she did. Wouldn't you imagine the other women prisoners on death row (if there are any) would have a serious problem with a baby killer?

[deacon]

I agree,OS.That lapse in time,when she was NOT using the phone,may be the most important time frame. IMO SHE probably didnt do too much digging.That might cause a callous,or worse,break a nail!!!!

In ground that is muddy, it doesn't take that much effort. I still am not convinced she dug any at all. I think she may have taken a shovel intending to dig and then saw how much work it was going to be and just discarded the body. Now, it that water has been flowing much at all, the body may not be exactly where she left it. It could have washed in one direction or the other. Of course, experienced searchers are aware of this. I am sure they also know in which direction it may have been flowing. That could actually help.

[deacon]

I was just reading on the no discussion thread info Loretta was kind enough to post as usual. I am very excited to read the line that it was the prosecution who asked to move the trial date up and not the defense-to perhaps put pressure on the defense. That says to me the prosecution must be very confident in their case. Very happy to read that. :rose:

Ah yes. It sounds like they may have much more than they are letting on. Probably more than her lawyers dream they have. Now that, would be pressure.

[deacon]

I don't know offhand what FL's execution rate is and how long the avg person is on death row, but wouldn't it kind of be poetic justice for her to sit in a jail cell for the next 50 or 60 years? As you said -- "no shopping, drinks, men, etc" -- would be the worst punishment imaginable for her. She would have little to do being isolated from the rest of the prison population and might be forced to really think about what she did. Wouldn't you imagine the other women prisoners on death row (if there are any) would have a serious problem with a baby killer?

In a word, yes.

[Gatordog]

I agree,OS.That lapse in time,when she was NOT using the phone,may be the most important time frame. IMO SHE probably didnt do too much digging.That might cause a callous,or worse,break a nail!!!!

She might not have even used a shovel. She had the neighbor's shovel for approximately one hour and the neighbor didn't say she left in the car. She might have used the shovel to remove the body from the yard, tried to clean it up in the pool, and put it in some sort of plastic bag or duffel bag. You know, I can't even go any further because the thought of a mother being okay with seeing her child like that sickens me.

If the prosecutor lays this out properly, she's going to be found guilty of first degree murder. It just makes me sick thinking of it. :flamemad:

[Gatordog]

With any luck, this trial will get moved to the panhandle of Florida. They'll find her guilty and take her out and hang her before they have a chance to put the handcuffs on her. They might not be overly savvy on the scientific evidence, but the emotional will get them.

[lorettalockhorn]

Wow. Thanks for the information, loretta. I nominate you for head cheerleader.

HAH! PJ wearing little old cat lady cheerleader; what a sight (especially with my Patsy Stone hairdo!). :hat:

Despite the fact that bones are used to extract DNA to identify unknowns, I'm sure the defense will try to debunk the methods. Buy that's its job.

You know, even if Caylee was found and Casey was found not guilty, Caylee could still be laid to rest. That's a huge part of the grieving process, and Caylee has untold mourners.

[Gatordog]

Forgive me for going off topic but I just received this from a friend who is close to the family involved. I know there are others from Florida who post here so I hope they look at it.

http://www.avalonparkwatch.org/page/page.cfm/missing

[deputydi]

With any luck, this trial will get moved to the panhandle of Florida. They'll find her guilty and take her out and hang her before they have a chance to put the handcuffs on her. They might not be overly savvy on the scientific evidence, but the emotional will get them.
Hmmm, a little ole fashioned FL justice. I'm not in favor of vigilantism but I could make an exception in this case.

[SaraSidle]

I know you do. I can tell sincerity and genuine concern when I see it and you've proved yourself,imo,sara.
Didnt I read somewhere that the searchers were told to look for something rolled up(like a rug,towel) or Bag. I took that to mean like a gym bag.
Or is this just standard and not because they had a clue of such?
Or was that something not even with this case.Anybody else remember?

I do remember it BS but I remember as something to look for standard procedure. Padilla thinks she was in a garbage bag. either one is possible however it sounds like the garbage bag was not closed all the way if her hair was found in the trunk and no one reported a lost rug or anything similar. Fo course there could be a towel or gym bag missing and no one noticed. IMO sara

[SaraSidle]

She might not have even used a shovel. She had the neighbor's shovel for approximately one hour and the neighbor didn't say she left in the car. She might have used the shovel to remove the body from the yard, tried to clean it up in the pool, and put it in some sort of plastic bag or duffel bag. You know, I can't even go any further because the thought of a mother being okay with seeing her child like that sickens me.

If the prosecutor lays this out properly, she's going to be found guilty of first degree murder. It just makes me sick thinking of it. :flamemad:

I agree gator. I also think dirt was found on the shovel or in the truck that will probably match the backyard hot spots and maybe LE has tested it IMO sara

[SaraSidle]

With any luck, this trial will get moved to the panhandle of Florida. They'll find her guilty and take her out and hang her before they have a chance to put the handcuffs on her. They might not be overly savvy on the scientific evidence, but the emotional will get them.

why is the panhandle different Gator?

[SaraSidle]

HAH! PJ wearing little old cat lady cheerleader; what a sight (especially with my Patsy Stone hairdo!). :hat:

Despite the fact that bones are used to extract DNA to identify unknowns, I'm sure the defense will try to debunk the methods. Buy that's its job.

You know, even if Caylee was found and Casey was found not guilty, Caylee could still be laid to rest. That's a huge part of the grieving process, and Caylee has untold mourners.

Nice post Loretta and right now that is the most I am hoping for.
(I wear flannel with pics of cats all over them) IMO sara

[Brainstorm]

IIRC, the clothes Cindy found in the car smelled the same as the car,so were they just there and picked up the odor, or does that mean she carried her? I would think she put her in something,imo.But if the child was already decomposing,no way she could not carry that scent,imo

[SaraSidle]

IIRC, the clothes Cindy found in the car smelled the same as the car,so were they just there and picked up the odor, or does that mean she carried her? I would think she put her in something,imo.But if the child was already decomposing,no way she could not carry that scent,imo

this is such a tough thing to figure and may be the hardest. you have (bury,water,dumpster,?) and c.o.d. (drowning,strangulation,weapon,chloroform,?).

that is why I hope that baby's body is buried in something so there will be something or any little thing that DNA wise sara IMO

[SaraSidle]

I don't know offhand what FL's execution rate is and how long the avg person is on death row, but wouldn't it kind of be poetic justice for her to sit in a jail cell for the next 50 or 60 years? As you said -- "no shopping, drinks, men, etc" -- would be the worst punishment imaginable for her. She would have little to do being isolated from the rest of the prison population and might be forced to really think about what she did. Wouldn't you imagine the other women prisoners on death row (if there are any) would have a serious problem with a baby killer?

deputydi are you thinking that the prosecutor is going for the dp to make a deal?

[lorettalockhorn]

I think that she had to use something to wrap Caylee in; the decomposing body would be falling apart (if she really drove around with the baby in the trunk for as long as LE has proposed). She may have put her into a bag or carpet or blanket or whatever as soon as she figured out Caylee was dead; but surely when/if Caylee was drugged, she wasn't wrapped up, and that's how the hair was loosed into the trunk; Casey just missed it when she was cleaning up. Even if Caylee was in some sort of container, the odor still could have permeated Casey's clothes. Hopefully she did use the shovel to dispose of Caylee; the body buried, though harder to find, would be in better condition for autopsy than if she was just laid out in the elements.

[lorettalockhorn]

Florida death row fact sheet (lots of information):

http://www.dc.state.fl.us/oth/deathrow/

Death row roster:

http://www.dc.state.fl.us/activeinmates/deathrowroster.asp

[SaraSidle]

I think that she had to use something to wrap Caylee in; the decomposing body would be falling apart (if she really drove around with the baby in the trunk for as long as LE has proposed). She may have put her into a bag or carpet or blanket or whatever as soon as she figured out Caylee was dead; but surely when/if Caylee was drugged, she wasn't wrapped up, and that's how the hair was loosed into the trunk; Casey just missed it when she was cleaning up. Even if Caylee was in some sort of container, the odor still could have permeated Casey's clothes. Hopefully she did use the shovel to dispose of Caylee; the body buried, though harder to find, would be in better condition for autopsy than if she was just laid out in the elements.

Exactly it would be so much better if she had been buried. but it is hard to figure all that decomp smell if she had been buried so soon after death by neighbors' shovel. On the other hand I cannot believe she would keep her in the trunk 10 days. I also I agree she was wrapped in something because I cannot believe she would carry around her decomposing body. and Brainstorm You bring up a good point, It has been in the back of my mind waiting to come out. We know Caylee and Chloroform and decomp was in the trunk but weren't Caylees pants in the back seat? was Caylee laying deceased in the back seat at some point or were the pants in the trunk with Caylee. then when Caylee was put somewhere the pants came into the back seat. sorry if I go on but that is a great point. IMO sara

[Brainstorm]

I didnt really know of any pants that were Caylees? IIRC,Cindy washed some slacks of Caseys. Also, wasnt the childs toy/doll(?) in the car?
SHAME ON CASEY.

[SaraSidle]

Florida death row fact sheet (lots of information):

http://www.dc.state.fl.us/oth/deathrow/

Death row roster:

http://www.dc.state.fl.us/activeinmates/deathrowroster.asp

$150.00 is ridiculous. Especially when you think about how much money the state has spent on the prisoner......OT sorry

[SaraSidle]

I didnt really know of any pants that were Caylees? IIRC,Cindy washed some slacks of Caseys. Also, wasnt the childs toy/doll(?) in the car?
SHAME ON CASEY.

I am sorry. I meant the gray pants found in the back seat of Caseys car that belong to Casey. I do not even know at this point if there was any decomp in the car..........just trunk imo sara

[deputydi]

deputydi are you thinking that the prosecutor is going for the dp to make a deal?
Absolutely not. I think if Casey was smart she would offer to tell where the body is in exchange for a life sentence. Unfortunately, she is loopy enough to think she has a chance at acquittal.

What I meant was in the event the jury sentences her to life rather than death, it would still be justice for Caylee. I didn't care whether SP got the death penalty either. Sitting in jail for the rest of his life was satisfaction enough for me.

[SaraSidle]

Absolutely not. I think if Casey was smart she would offer to tell where the body is in exchange for a life sentence. Unfortunately, she is loopy enough to think she has a chance at acquittal.

What I meant was in the event the jury sentences her to life rather than death, it would still be justice for Caylee. I didn't care whether SP got the death penalty either. Sitting in jail for the rest of his life was satisfaction enough for me.

I agree and knew what you mean. I just wanted your opinion. :)

[SaraSidle]

I didnt really know of any pants that were Caylees? IIRC,Cindy washed some slacks of Caseys. Also, wasnt the childs toy/doll(?) in the car?
SHAME ON CASEY.

It would be nice to know what was found in the trunk and in the car.
Was the decomp in the car and the trunk?
How long would it take for the car to smell like that?

I believe Casey's pants and Caylee's carseat, doll and 2 pairs of shoes were found in the car and the bag and hair and dna found in the trunk with the decomp smell found by 2 different dogs in the trunk. So why did the gray pants smell like decomp and Cindy washed them? good point Brainstorm IMO sara

[SaraSidle]

http://www.wesh.com/breakingnews/index.html

[lorettalockhorn]

Thanks Sara! Some pretty good comments there.

[SaraSidle]

Thanks Sara! Some pretty good comments there.

thank you loretta and thanks for all the links. If you want me to do some please let me know. I am going to check IS. they have one vicious baiter there now.........anything good I will let you know. lots of foul language!!!imo

[lorettalockhorn]

What the heck is IS? Let me know if you want backup. LMAO

:hat::hat::hat:

[SaraSidle]

What the heck is IS? Let me know if you want backup. LMAO

:hat::hat::hat:

lol someone called summerwheat 68 posts bashing posters and 2 major threads saying very vicious thing about coldwater. threats to close down the thread. the f word to CW. I showed her the post but I do not know if she is up now. Can you look over there?
InSessions you country girl xxxooo completely off topic

[SaraSidle]

Forgive me for going off topic but I just received this from a friend who is close to the family involved. I know there are others from Florida who post here so I hope they look at it.

http://www.avalonparkwatch.org/page/page.cfm/missing

Gator why don't you start a thread on it? imo Sara

[SaraSidle]

lol someone called summerwheat 68 posts bashing posters and 2 major threads saying very vicious thing about coldwater. threats to close down the thread. the f word to CW. I showed her the post but I do not know if she is up now. Can you look over there?
InSessions you country girl xxxooo completely off topic

Off topic again. look under the caylee threads. he or she has already started 2 hateful ones. imo

[lorettalockhorn]

Forgive me for going off topic but I just received this from a friend who is close to the family involved. I know there are others from Florida who post here so I hope they look at it.

http://www.avalonparkwatch.org/page/page.cfm/missing

Missed this earlier. Hope there is a happy ending and soon.

[lorettalockhorn]

Off topic again. look under the caylee threads. he or she has already started 2 hateful ones. imo

I hate to get all technical and use difficult to understand clinical terms, but someone ain't right in the head. :eek:

[SaraSidle]

I hate to get all technical and use difficult to understand clinical terms, but someone ain't right in the head. :eek:

Sounds like some banned. IS posters are ignoring her which is pretty cool since she attacks the posters in filthy names with filthy words. In big read words I might add. I do not want to post with her or know her or who she is. I am proud of the posters they did real good with ignore and he/she finally stopped. she posted like 78 times today and just joined today. sounds like our little porn freaks. anyways too much excitement. I checked other threads and there does not seem to be much movement on CA case. talk to you tomorrow hon//////////////////love city girl sandy with buck teeth and cats on her flannels

[Gatordog]

why is the panhandle different Gator?

Southeast Florida and Central Florida tend to be more cosmopolitan, more technical and liberal. The northwest and southwest of Florida tend to be more conservative, religious and less city-like and more community based. I am originally from NYC and live in Orlando and many of the people in Southeast Florida are also from the Northeast, Southwest Florida is made up of many Mid-Westerners. The Panhandle is close to Alabama and Mississippi . They are strong believers in justice, capital punishment and many are retired military. I wouldn't want to sneeze the wrong way up near Pensacola. If I had to go to trial someplace, my last choice would be Pensacola.

[Notknowingall]

Sounds like some banned. IS posters are ignoring her which is pretty cool since she attacks the posters in filthy names with filthy words. In big read words I might add. I do not want to post with her or know her or who she is. I am proud of the posters they did real good with ignore and he/she finally stopped. she posted like 78 times today and just joined today. sounds like our little porn freaks. anyways too much excitement. I checked other threads and there does not seem to be much movement on CA case. talk to you tomorrow hon//////////////////love city girl sandy with buck teeth and cats on her flannels


Probably a good thing, but Iwasn't able to find either of those threads.

[Gatordog]

That's it....I think I've woken up in the Bizarro World. Scott Peterson is communicating with Casey Anthony in jail. :cuss:

Gator

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orange/orl-casey-anthony-102908,0,6274441.story

[deputydi]

That's it....I think I've woken up in the Bizarro World. Scott Peterson is communicating with Casey Anthony in jail. :cuss:

Gator

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orange/orl-casey-anthony-102908,0,6274441.story
OMG! I thought your post was meant to be funny until I clicked on your link. Do you really think DRISP is writing to soon-to-be DRICA? Boy would that be a match made in hell.

[beachbum]

That's it....I think I've woken up in the Bizarro World. Scott Peterson is communicating with Casey Anthony in jail. :cuss:

Gator

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orange/orl-casey-anthony-102908,0,6274441.story

Just 3 words on that one: OH MY GOSH!

[SaraSidle]

Southeast Florida and Central Florida tend to be more cosmopolitan, more technical and liberal. The northwest and southwest of Florida tend to be more conservative, religious and less city-like and more community based. I am originally from NYC and live in Orlando and many of the people in Southeast Florida are also from the Northeast, Southwest Florida is made up of many Mid-Westerners. The Panhandle is close to Alabama and Mississippi . They are strong believers in justice, capital punishment and many are retired military. I wouldn't want to sneeze the wrong way up near Pensacola. If I had to go to trial someplace, my last choice would be Pensacola.

Got it thanks. did not want to sound dumb!!! thanks Gator.

[SaraSidle]

Probably a good thing, but Iwasn't able to find either of those threads.

NKA I reported them as soon as I could. I usually do not run to a mod unless it is something big. We had a porn scammer here who kept hitting every thread with porn and changing its name. for 2 days. I think it was a total of 80 posts first weekend in August and some of us reported everyone one of them and in one or two days there were gone. Some kind of bot thing. This was pretty bad. I could show you the title of one of the posts but that is it. the rest is gone..........ot sorry sara

[SaraSidle]

Just 3 words on that one: OH MY GOSH!

something must be wrong with me. I am not surprised in the least. I sure hope someone makes a movie. It is very entertaining. IMO

[Notknowingall]

NKA I reported them as soon as I could. I usually do not run to a mod unless it is something big. We had a porn scammer here who kept hitting every thread with porn and changing its name. for 2 days. I think it was a total of 80 posts first weekend in August and some of us reported everyone one of them and in one or two days there were gone. Some kind of bot thing. This was pretty bad. I could show you the title of one of the posts but that is it. the rest is gone..........ot sorry sara

Not to worry Sarah. I just hadn't seen anything. But thanks for the offer. I don't need to see that kind of garbage.

[Brainstorm]

Not to worry Sarah. I just hadn't seen anything. But thanks for the offer. I don't need to see that kind of garbage.

yeh, I know. THANK GOD, I missed all that too, somehow !!!!

[lorettalockhorn]

Southeast Florida and Central Florida tend to be more cosmopolitan, more technical and liberal. The northwest and southwest of Florida tend to be more conservative, religious and less city-like and more community based. I am originally from NYC and live in Orlando and many of the people in Southeast Florida are also from the Northeast, Southwest Florida is made up of many Mid-Westerners. The Panhandle is close to Alabama and Mississippi . They are strong believers in justice, capital punishment and many are retired military. I wouldn't want to sneeze the wrong way up near Pensacola. If I had to go to trial someplace, my last choice would be Pensacola.

That's a great explanation Gator, and I believe there's a lot to that. We love the area around Naples and Estero and Sanibel, and know lots of fellow Arkies who love to vacation there too. We've been told so often that South Florida is similar personality-wise to the North, and North Florida is more like the South.

[SaraSidle]

Not to worry Sarah. I just hadn't seen anything. But thanks for the offer. I don't need to see that kind of garbage.

OOps sorry NKA just got this

[SaraSidle]

That's a great explanation Gator, and I believe there's a lot to that. We love the area around Naples and Estero and Sanibel, and know lots of fellow Arkies who love to vacation there too. We've been told so often that South Florida is similar personality-wise to the North, and North Florida is more like the South.

I too am considered midwestern and I much prefer West FLorida. and I swam with a wild dolphin there. O.T. again I am sorry. sara

[SaraSidle]

yeh, I know. THANK GOD, I missed all that too, somehow !!!!

I sent you a pm Brainstorm. I worded that wrong. I was not throwing around porn nor do I have any.....not my style. :eek:

[Brainstorm]

No worries,sara. I know better.Too bad that kind of garbage is even available,imo.

[Brainstorm]

I too am considered midwestern and I much prefer West FLorida. and I swam with a wild dolphin there. O.T. again I am sorry. sara

awesome,sara.

[SaraSidle]

awesome,sara.

It actually was spiritual bs and I cannot explain it but my witness was a nun I was staying with LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!! I cannot wait for Tim and his group to start searching this is maddening. I do not want it to be like other cases that still linger............IMO sara

[Brainstorm]

It actually was spiritual bs and I cannot explain it but my witness was a nun I was staying with LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!! I cannot wait for Tim and his group to start searching this is maddening. I do not want it to be like other cases that still linger............IMO sara

Like I said, awesome,imo.

Im keeping the faith,today,feeling good about the efforts/up coming search.
Casey couldnt keep her legs shut(she really was a common w/h/o/r/e, IMO) OR her mouth, so Im counting on that 18 min. of silence to HANG HER A/S/S !!!!

[One2Snoop]

:eek:

Casey Rented Movie About Murder On Day Caylee May Have Died
Wednesday, October 29, 2008 – updated: 6:10 pm EDT October 29, 2008

http://www.wftv.com/news/17841326/detail.html#-

[Brainstorm]

OMG! I thought your post was meant to be funny until I clicked on your link. Do you really think DRISP is writing to soon-to-be DRICA? Boy would that be a match made in hell.

OMG! There it is,deputy,their own doings,bringing them to this.the love story of Drisp and Drica !!!! How appropriate.
I do remember,after hearing/watching Drica, that she reminded me of Drisp!!!
IIRC, I was praying those two would not ever get together and create off-spring!!! OMG. HE WILL FORBID THIS,IMO.

Drisp and Drica !
A DISGUSTING TRUE STORY OF PURE EVIL, then how evil begets evils.
demon devil darlings,Drisp and Drica. ROT IN HELL, IMHHO

[One2Snoop]

OMG! There it is,deputy,their own doings,bringing them to this.the love story of Drisp and Drica !!!! How appropriate.
I do remember,after hearing/watching Drica, that she reminded me of Drisp!!!
IIRC, I was praying those two would not ever get together and create off-spring!!! OMG. HE WILL FORBID THIS,IMO.

Drisp and Drica !
A DISGUSTING TRUE STORY OF PURE EVIL, then how evil begets evils.
demon devil darlings,Drisp and Drica. ROT IN HELL, IMHHO


Latest news update says the story isn't true. :shrug:

[One2Snoop]

From newslink above....

"No emotion, no tears and no regrets," is how Casey was described on that day of death, when she rented a movie about a kidnapper and killer just hours after, detectives believe, she murdered her daughter.

Never before seen surveillance photos show accused killer Casey Anthony and her boyfriend walking into an east Orange County Blockbuster (see map) just before 8:00pm on Monday June 16, just hours after her daughter Caylee was last seen alive by Casey's father at home.

[One2Snoop]

REPORTS OF SCOTT PETERSON LETTERS UNTRUE

Eyewitness News has learned a strange new twist being reported in the Casey Anthony case doesn't appear to be true. The Orlando Sentinel reported an exclusive story Wednesday that convicted murderer Scott Peterson has been sending Casey letters from his cell at the San Quentin State Prison in California.

When Eyewitness News started asking questions, the prison spokesman at San Quentin looked into it and said, based on information developed at the prison, there is no truth to that story. The prison spokesman said he was never contacted about the story before it ran in the Sentinel.

http://www.wftv.com/news/17841326/detail.html#-

[SaraSidle]

REPORTS OF SCOTT PETERSON LETTERS UNTRUE

Eyewitness News has learned a strange new twist being reported in the Casey Anthony case doesn't appear to be true. The Orlando Sentinel reported an exclusive story Wednesday that convicted murderer Scott Peterson has been sending Casey letters from his cell at the San Quentin State Prison in California.

When Eyewitness News started asking questions, the prison spokesman at San Quentin looked into it and said, based on information developed at the prison, there is no truth to that story. The prison spokesman said he was never contacted about the story before it ran in the Sentinel.

http://www.wftv.com/news/17841326/detail.html#-

Ok again I am not surprised but I wonder how sick this case is going to end up being??????????? IMO sara

[lorettalockhorn]

Synopsis of Untraceable (sounds gory):

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0880578/synopsis

Synopsis for Jumper:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0489099/synopsis

[SaraSidle]

OMG! There it is,deputy,their own doings,bringing them to this.the love story of Drisp and Drica !!!! How appropriate.
I do remember,after hearing/watching Drica, that she reminded me of Drisp!!!
IIRC, I was praying those two would not ever get together and create off-spring!!! OMG. HE WILL FORBID THIS,IMO.

Drisp and Drica !
A DISGUSTING TRUE STORY OF PURE EVIL, then how evil begets evils.
demon devil darlings,Drisp and Drica. ROT IN HELL, IMHHO

I sent you a pm. nice post

[lorettalockhorn]

REPORTS OF SCOTT PETERSON LETTERS UNTRUE

Eyewitness News has learned a strange new twist being reported in the Casey Anthony case doesn't appear to be true. The Orlando Sentinel reported an exclusive story Wednesday that convicted murderer Scott Peterson has been sending Casey letters from his cell at the San Quentin State Prison in California.

When Eyewitness News started asking questions, the prison spokesman at San Quentin looked into it and said, based on information developed at the prison, there is no truth to that story. The prison spokesman said he was never contacted about the story before it ran in the Sentinel.

http://www.wftv.com/news/17841326/detail.html#-


Aww And their parents would have been so proud.

[One2Snoop]

:eek: Movies Casey rented...

The new photos show Casey without Caylee, arm in arm with her boyfriend, after they chose two movies to rent. One rented was "Untraceable," about a kidnapper and killer. The other was "Jumper," about a mother who abandons her 5-year-old child, who then can teleport himself.

[One2Snoop]

Aww And their parents would have been so proud.....

http://img2.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/happy/happy0157.gif (http://www.mysmiley.net)

[SaraSidle]

:eek: Movies Casey rented...

The new photos show Casey without Caylee, arm in arm with her boyfriend, after they chose two movies to rent. One rented was "Untraceable," about a kidnapper and killer. The other was "Jumper," about a mother who abandons her 5-year-old child, who then can teleport himself.

That is not right One2Snoop. I am so glad I never met this woman....IMO sara

[Brainstorm]

:eek: Movies Casey rented...

The new photos show Casey without Caylee, arm in arm with her boyfriend, after they chose two movies to rent. One rented was "Untraceable," about a kidnapper and killer. The other was "Jumper," about a mother who abandons her 5-year-old child, who then can teleport himself.

It just keeps getting more disgusting,doesnt it?
Im almost mad enough to teleport my self to visit that girl and scare her dam sensless.HOW DARE SHE EVEN BREATHE,IMO!!!she should be scared she is about to get struck by LIGHTING!!!!!!I may just put in a word about this,BTW.
nah, she wouldnt know what hit her and before this is over, I hope and pray she feels every small fear that she probably put in her own child!!!! ONLY magnified beyond our understanding.

[SaraSidle]

It just keeps getting more disgusting,doesnt it?
Im almost mad enough to teleport my self to visit that girl and scare her dam sensless.HOW DARE SHE EVEN BREATHE,IMO!!!she should be scared she is about to get struck by LIGHTING!!!!!!I may just put in a word about this,BTW.
nah, she wouldnt know what hit her and before this is over, I hope and pray she feels every small fear that she probably put in her own child!!!! ONLY magnified beyond our understanding.

I am telling you Brainstorm you and me and whoever else and the truth serum to Orlando. that is the only control we have!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Woostock]

Just when you think things can't get any worse in this case, they do. There she is with her boyfriend at the movies????? I wonder if he had a clue of what her m.o. was earlier in the day? There are no words that can truely describe Casey. Let's all send positive thoughts that EquuSearch finds something..........

[SaraSidle]

Just when you think things can't get any worse in this case, they do. There she is with her boyfriend at the movies????? I wonder if he had a clue of what her m.o. was earlier in the day? There are no words that can truely describe Casey. Let's all send positive thoughts that EquuSearch finds something..........

I have been praying for that for a long time Woostock.I am quite scared that the evidence will be simply circumstantial and there will be reasonable doubt. I pray LE has a lot of evidence that they have not shown and that Caylee is found and is in good enough condition to tell who did it.........IMO sara

[Brainstorm]

I am telling you Brainstorm you and me and whoever else and the truth serum to Orlando. that is the only control we have!!!!!!!!!!!!

Some ole fashioned truth serum,the kind talked about in the Bible, about sparing the rod!!!!.........this is what She needed,needs,imo.
Just beat the hell out of her.IMO.

[SaraSidle]

Some ole fashioned truth serum,the kind talked about in the Bible, about sparing the rod!!!!.........this is what She needed,needs,imo.
Just beat the hell out of her.IMO.

LOL Brainstorm let us just start with the serum and see where it goes. I have watched it used before to solve crimes and it works pretty darn good. Did I tell you it is too cold to go out and smoke? I hate this. IMO sara

[SaraSidle]

I'm in-just let me inject it pleeeeez. If that doesn't work caning is pretty effective Me bad :biggrin:

LOL Beemeup you can come. I have been thinking that the 3 of us should dress up like nuns. Brainstorm and I are the strength and you will have it hidden in your habit. What do you think? IMO sara

[SaraSidle]

Works for me!!! I think we need Loretta for back-up in her cat jammies, hat etc.

What I do not remember the hat you will have to remind me. She lives west so I am not sure if she wants to join us. You could pick me up on your way down from Siberia and it is a straight 24 hours if we sleep one night. and we could pick up Brainstorm cause she is on the way. however if loretta is interested we could appeal to her. or give her a webcam and keep her in charge as a witness. we will have to consider all this........imo sara

[SaraSidle]

Too funny lol Yes it was when i was trying to figure out if the hat icon had a meaning. She answered and added something about her cat jammies. How be i meet you in Detroit-I'll snow shoe from Siberia ha!!! and then a straight shot down I-75 south from there. Yes we need it all on tape. Whats our defense??? Casey Koolaid???? From Detroit we can be there in 22-23 hrs. depending on coffee,bladder stops. One drive and one sleep. Maybe more will jump on board and we can get a bus YEAH!!!!!:biggrin:

that is a great plan I will drive 34 hours to detroit. Maybe Brainstorm can have costumes and drugs when we get there. she just might have connections.............I am going to sleep but let's think about it some more. imo sara

[TLC]

Last night on NG Leonard Padilla said Lee Anthony sent a letter (email) to people asking them not to donate to TES. Has anyone heard anything about that or have an opinion? I find it awful, even if they want to claim she is still alive for the sake of casey's case, they should in their hearts want to bring that little body home.

[deputydi]

Last night on NG Leonard Padilla said Lee Anthony sent a letter (email) to people asking them not to donate to TES. Has anyone heard anything about that or have an opinion? I find it awful, even if they want to claim she is still alive for the sake of casey's case, they should in their hearts want to bring that little body home.
What????????? If this is true, Lee may have just done a service to TES without even realizing it. All the people who are fed up with the Anthonys will be running to get their checkbook. What a jerk he is.

[Gatordog]

It actually was spiritual bs and I cannot explain it but my witness was a nun I was staying with LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!! I cannot wait for Tim and his group to start searching this is maddening. I do not want it to be like other cases that still linger............IMO sara

G'Morning Sara :seeya:

The wait is very positive. It is cold down here and it's going to benefit the search. Grass hasn't grown in about two weeks and it's starting to die off in some places. The searchers will have an easier time with the brush being thinner and the weather being cooler.

Gator

[Gatordog]

From newslink above....

"No emotion, no tears and no regrets," is how Casey was described on that day of death, when she rented a movie about a kidnapper and killer just hours after, detectives believe, she murdered her daughter.

Never before seen surveillance photos show accused killer Casey Anthony and her boyfriend walking into an east Orange County Blockbuster (see map) just before 8:00pm on Monday June 16, just hours after her daughter Caylee was last seen alive by Casey's father at home.

This really does call George's recollection of seeing Casey and Calylee at 1 p.m. on June 16th into question. I believe she did leave the house the night of the 15th after the fight and deliberately, not accidentally, killed Caylee. She took all her hostility and frustration towards her mother out on that child.

Also, she told the detectives that she waited until 7 p.m. for the babysitter to return and she was "frantic". So frantic that less than one hour later she was making time with the boyfriend looking for killer movies to rent.

[Gatordog]

Works for me!!! I think we need Loretta for back-up in her cat jammies, hat etc.

I'd happily be your tour guide.

I wish they could mentally torture her. How wonderful would it be if they could play over and over again, the sound from the video of Caylee singing You are my Sunshine? Play it 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Sort of like The Telltale Heart.

If someone has heard that please tell me if you heard her say "Please don't take Nan's Sunshine Away". I think Cindy used to sing it to her with the word Nan in there to refer to herself. Maybe seeing that was the icing on the cake for Casey and she wanted to "take Nan's sunshine away" for good to hurt Cindy in the worst possible way.:(

[Gatordog]

Last night on NG Leonard Padilla said Lee Anthony sent a letter (email) to people asking them not to donate to TES. Has anyone heard anything about that or have an opinion? I find it awful, even if they want to claim she is still alive for the sake of casey's case, they should in their hearts want to bring that little body home.

Yes, I have an opinion....they know Caylee is dead. As long as there is no body they feel they have a chance at a not guilty verdict. They rather protect a murderer than give a child a proper burial. I bet it has been very difficult for them to not search those woods themselves to remove or destoy any evidence that they could find.

[Gatordog]

Leonard Padilla gets me so frustrated. He seems to know a heck of a lot. How about those two cans of deodordant which were inside of one bag and then inside a target bag? Let's pray that there's a Target receipt with deodorant. She was probably trying to kill the stench of the body.

And then there's the gold cross bought at JCPenneys. I could not understand why one of the phonecalls Casey made from her cell phone at the airport grounds was to JCPenneys. Now it makes sense. She bought two crosses. Probably put one on the body and kept one for herself as a momento of Caylee (or a trophy of the kill). I'm thinking she bought one cross, left it with Caylee and then thought of getting one for herself and called to see if they had it in stock. Or, she thought of the crosses as an afterthought, went to buy two, and then went back and left on on the body. Could explain the two sightings of the white car but one day with a shovel and the other day without.

Maybe when Padilla is here I should just try to meet him and get him all liquored up and have him spill the beans. :D:o

[crowamongdoves]

I think that the Anthony family is trying so hard to maintain the story that Caylee is alive not only for the B***H but for their own reasons. They would probably say how could we have helped Casey cover up the crime we believe Caylee is still alive. IMO Gator here's to you meeting up with LP :beer: