Caylee Anthony Case Discussion Only

[SaraSidle]

Hi A&O,

I think they will find Caylee or at least evidence. Leonard Padilla is going to be here on November 8th for the search. He has given money to TES and is backing the search. I know there will be lots of people helping to look. The weather is now cooler and drier, much more comfortable for the searchers and more land will be accessible. The man who stated that he saw the white car with the black bra and the woman with the shovel said he would even put together his own search party if LE didn't search in that area.

I do not disagree one bit Gator but there really is not going to be a lot left to find. If they find anything. and after this long there may not be any evidence left about how she passed. could still stick with the kidnapping story!!!!!!!!!! IMO sara

[SaraSidle]

I have a daughter in law that is so much like Casey it makes my skin crawl. Fortunatly her 4 kids have were taken from her by the state before any physical harm could be done, we will have to wait and see about the mental damage that they have suffered. Like Casey there is a grain of truth in whatever the DIL says, the job is to find it...

I think that Casey killed Caylee in a fit of rage with no absolute plan of what to do with the body. From my experiance the thought pattern of people like these only go so far, so you get lie after lie to make good after the fact. Everyone know that they are lying but have no idea what really went on.

I can't tell you how much time my wife and i have spent discussing the DIL, and have come to no agreement. Where the sociopath part of her ends and her true personality begins is anyones guess but like Casey above all she is a survivor and WILL get what she wants. sorry for the long ramble....

these are my opinions only based on my painful experiance, sometimes i wish i had training in this field to make sense of it all.....

I am so sorry TOEJAM. I know that must be so hard on your family. IMO sara

[beachbum]

Oh Yeah!!! It just struck me the name is just so Cindy!!! Casey did not even want to have the baby. Cindy combines the parts of her own childrens names. Could be a controlling Cindy thing:confused:

You are so right! Does sound more like a Cindy control thing. grneyes: I dont think there is anything wrong with naming your children after family members, infact my youngest son has my maiden name for his middle name. I am simply pointing out they are not a normal family. Give Casey a few drinks, give Lee a few drinks and you just never know. I would hope not. JMO

[grneyes]

You are so right! Does sound more like a Cindy control thing. grneyes: I dont think there is anything wrong with naming your children after family members, infact my youngest son has my maiden name for his middle name. I am simply pointing out they are not a normal family. Give Casey a few drinks, give Lee a few drinks and you just never know. I would hope not. JMO

Oh I understand your point totally. Casey would probably sleep with any one but we don't know about Lee. Maybe he wouldn't though. (Then again, maybe he would. :shrug:)

:beer:

[beachbum]

A caller on NG last night pointed out how on all the shopping sprees, Casey didnt have one thing for Caylee. Now all you parents know you cant go to a place shopping and not get your kid something - if not a toy, things like diapers and etc. She was gone probably on her first shopping trip. So sad.
Well it just reminds me that her dad has filled her account to get things for herself in jail. I dont think she deserves them myself. JMO

[sharlock]

sure the little drama queen as told her family she doesn't want to see them...boo hoo. Afterall her father testified at the Grand Jury hearing..wahhh..

The guy that supposedly saw Casey doesn't seem credible to me. But that's just my opinion.

What I really find telling is that you don't see aunts, uncles, cousins, whatever stating what a great mom she was/is. There have been NO other family members other then her immediate family standing by her.

LOL, it doesn't surprise me at all that no other family are going to the media with stories of Casey's superior mothering abilities. I think their hands would be full trying to support these grandparents who are so dee[ in denial. IMO to even try and be there for Cindy and George they would have to be very careful of what they said and not let it show that they even have doubts otherwise they would be asked to leave. JMO

[One2Snoop]

A caller on NG last night pointed out how on all the shopping sprees, Casey didnt have one thing for Caylee. Now all you parents know you cant go to a place shopping and not get your kid something - if not a toy, things like diapers and etc. She was gone probably on her first shopping trip. So sad.
Well it just reminds me that her dad has filled her account to get things for herself in jail. I dont think she deserves them myself. JMO

I agree beachbum - really strange she didn't purchase a thing for Caylee - not even night diapers, because from my understanding Caylee wasn't totally potty trained yet ~ close but not quite there yet.

The whole Lee/Casey thing - ick - I don't want to think about it LOL. :cool:

I believe her Dad gave her money in the account out of guilt more than anything else. IMO, JMO.

[One2Snoop]

Who knows whether Casey slept with Lee or not, but I could see her doing it for the thrill of it. She wouldn't have any qualms about who she slept with and she might even think it was really and seriously cool to do because it's so socially unacceptable. Would she really care who she slept with? Nah. I would think anyone she could bed would be another notch on the bedpost. It was probably her bartering tool. This family is nowhere near normal...way, way out in left field to be exact.

She could possibly have a line she wouldn't cross, but I doubt it.

JMO

Gives me the heebeejeebee's thinking about it. http://img2.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/confused/confused0086.gif (http://www.mysmiley.net)

[sharlock]

Couldn't she use pure chloroform as a cleaning agent itself and not diluted. I believe I read that chloroform could destroy DNA. Perhaps when she was looking up chloroform on the computer, she did a preliminary search on destroying DNA in an attempt to put her plan together.
This idea that chloroform might have been used to destroy DNA was first brought up on Nancy Grace but it was later shown to be incorrect. Chloroform is actually used in the processing of DNA and wouldn't destroy it at all.

Polymerase Chain Reaction

DNA is extracted from a sample using a mixture of chloroform and phenol, which isolates the DNA strand from the other material in the nucleus. This method usually doesn’t produce sufficient enough DNA for analysis, so the strand is then artificially increased using a method known as polymerase chain reaction (PCR). This process involves an enzyme from the human body called a ‘polymerase’, which is added to the already extracted DNA. As a catalyst, the polymerase enzyme efficiently replicates the strand, producing sufficient DNA for analysis.

[beachbum]

Gives me the heebeejeebee's thinking about it. http://img2.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/confused/confused0086.gif (http://www.mysmiley.net)

I think its possible in a drunken stupor for both and I figure she has been that
way many times alone in the house with her brother but it makes me
sick to think about it too but then again look what she is being charged with the unthinkable for most. JMO

[Sea Zephyr]

Is there some way to tell if Caylee is (or was) the daughter of Lee? Aren't incest children supposed to have medical problems. She looked very healthy.

[One2Snoop]

Is there some way to tell if Caylee is (or was) the daughter of Lee? Aren't incest children supposed to have medical problems. She looked very healthy.

A simple DNA test would reveal that. IIRC Padilla was hinting on this thought about a month ago - but then it seemed like it went by the wayside. :shrug:

[One2Snoop]

I think its possible in a drunken stupor for both and I figure she has been that
way many times alone in the house with her brother but it makes me
sick to think about it too but then again look what she is being charged with the unthinkable for most. JMO

Sorry my brain just can't register this thought process - LOL. Drunken stupor or not. http://img2.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/scared/scared0011.gif (http://www.mysmiley.net/free-winking-smileys.php) http://img2.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/scared/scared0016.gif (http://www.mysmiley.net) :seeya:

[One2Snoop]

Tuesday, Oct 21
More Caylee Anthony Photos, More "Licensing"
Tipsters tell TVNewser that NBC News paid $5,000, for a "Cindy Anthony interview." Cindy Anthony is the mother of Casey Anthony who is in jail on murder charges in the case of her daughter, Caylee. The interview took place on the Today show last Wednesday.

An NBC spokesperson tells TVNewser, "NBC News does not pay for interviews. NBC News paid a nominal licensing fee for photos, which is very common in the industry."

Last month, a tipster told TVNewser that a "major media organization" helped fund the bail for then-jailed mom Casey. An ABC News insider told us the company paid upwards of $200,000 to license images and video for a 20/20 report. The figure was not confirmed by ABC, although they did tell TVNewser they licensed footage from "rights holders."

Anthony wasn't out of jail long. She's now facing first-degree murder, manslaughter and other charges after a four-month-long investigation. Caylee, who vanished two months before her third birthday in mid-June, still has not been found.

http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/nbc/more_caylee_anthony_photos_more_licensing_98181.as p

[sharlock]

Local news did show the area on the news last week and there was standing water where there shouldn't be any water. It's no where near as bad as it was weeks ago, but it's still swampy in areas. I think they just want land to be the same or as close to the way it was in June. My mom drove by the area yesterday and two people on horseback where coming out of the path. They are checking it daily.

I like reading your posts Gator it's good to get some info from a local.

[grneyes]

Is there some way to tell if Caylee is (or was) the daughter of Lee? Aren't incest children supposed to have medical problems. She looked very healthy.

Not necessarily. It sometimes depends on the family health history, genes, and how far down the line the incest has taken place. (ie, if Cindy or George were the product of incest also)

I've known quite few people that were conceived that way and most are no more unhealthy or less intelligent than anyone else I known.

There's actually a pair of 1st cousins here in the town I live in that got special permission from the Crown to get married and they have two kids. One of the kids is a college science professor (was in the top 10 of his graduating class too) and the other is some kind of health technician. Neither has any health problems or deformities. Actually, they are much healthier than their parents are.

But, I also know a family in the US where one of the daughters had several children by her father and her children do have some mental disabilities which her and her father both share. This girl had 3 kids by her dad before the state finally removed her and the kids from the home and locked his @$$ up and the child welfare workers knew about it for at least 2 years before he was arrested. That happened about 15 years ago so I'm hoping they are more thorough in their investigating now. :mad:

[sharlock]

Originally Posted by Sea Zephyr http://boards.crimelibrary.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showthread.php?p=9133258#post9133258)
Is there some way to tell if Caylee is (or was) the daughter of Lee? Aren't incest children supposed to have medical problems. She looked very healthy.

I personally don't put any stock into these kinds of suggestions. IMO there is nothing to even indicate that this might be the case and these types of allegations concern me, because they take the focus of the real crime and take us more into a daytime soapie drama. It is to be expected that they would ask for the DNA of all members of the family and not so hard to understand when you watch the way this family is doing everything they can to hinder investigation now that Lee might withhold his until forced to give it.

[sharlock]

A blog I just read is reporting that on Primenews this evening. CNN. it was reported that George and Cindy both took polygraph tests but Lee is still refusing to do so. I can't wait to hear the results of this test and for those of you who live in USA it should make for interesting viewing on NG tonight if it is true. I think Lee is putting himself in great danger of a public backlash now for refusing to take one. I know this will lead to a lot of doubt about him conspiring with Casey but I still think he didn't but is avoiding the test simply because Casey has told him what has happened to Caylee after the fact. JMO

LINK: http://humbleopinion.wordpress.com/2008/10/21/anthony-polygraph-tests1/

[NMurphy02]

I didn't even think of that, but it is a little odd that we haven't seen Lee in a while and that would make sense as to why he won't take a polygraph!

[beachbum]

The Anthony's are scheduled to be on the Today Show this morning so if you can try to watch. Said first interview with George since he testified against Casey. Its 7 am central here and they have not been on yet.

[BentNotBroken]

I agree its weird Lee has backed off, but in a way, I can imagine if I was in his shoes, and all this media attention, and, in a horrible way, Id be hiding too. Look at in his eyes. His niece is missing, his sister is now arrested for murder1, his parents are (for words I cant describe) devastated, in denial, every word they speak, will get into the press. If i was Lee, id also be quiet. I have yet to see where he has not co operated with the LE. Exept the LDT, but that is understandable, he has prolly been told by his own lawyers, oh, yes, Lee would have his own attorneys. I am not in any way defensing him, this is just MOO.

[NMurphy02]

the delusional Anthony's were on Today, today. And Cindy is such a foolio. She was saying that most of the pictures the media have been showing are from when Casey was 16!!! LOLOLOL! Oh and when asked why Casey lied, George said all I can say about my daughter is she's a good mother! WHATEVA....these two really bother me. I know they are going through a hard time but they are like Scott Peterson's parents. Annoying!

But in the beginning Lee was all over the airwaves. I can see backing off a little bit. But the last time I saw him was when he was ripping a sign away from a protester and that was weeks ago.

[BentNotBroken]

oh dear, thanks for the updates, I get nothing here in Aus. Sounds like jackie peterson again, cindy I mean. I just cant put myself in that position, yes, id even die for my son, but if i knew he killed someone, i dont know what id do. I just know how much I love my son, but if he done murder, Id turn him in a heart beat.

[lorettalockhorn]

I personally don't put any stock into these kinds of suggestions. IMO there is nothing to even indicate that this might be the case and these types of allegations concern me, because they take the focus of the real crime and take us more into a daytime soapie drama. It is to be expected that they would ask for the DNA of all members of the family and not so hard to understand when you watch the way this family is doing everything they can to hinder investigation now that Lee might withhold his until forced to give it.

Amen and well said.


A blog I just read is reporting that on Primenews this evening. CNN. it was reported that George and Cindy both took polygraph tests but Lee is still refusing to do so. I can't wait to hear the results of this test and for those of you who live in USA it should make for interesting viewing on NG tonight if it is true. I think Lee is putting himself in great danger of a public backlash now for refusing to take one. I know this will lead to a lot of doubt about him conspiring with Casey but I still think he didn't but is avoiding the test simply because Casey has told him what has happened to Caylee after the fact. JMO

LINK: http://humbleopinion.wordpress.com/2008/10/21/anthony-polygraph-tests1/

IIRC, Lee has been served a warrant to provide a DNA sample, and I would think that the time is running out for him to do so or be held in contempt of court. If and when anything unusual or outrageous is proven, then we'll have something to talk about such as a motive to have aided Casey in these crimes.

RE: G&C's public appearances. I'm a little surprised that the defense team hasn't put the kibosh on that.

[deacon]

I have seen a map shown on the news several times. Is that map posted anywhere? Just wanted to look at it a bit.

[beachbum]

the delusional Anthony's were on Today, today. And Cindy is such a foolio. She was saying that most of the pictures the media have been showing are from when Casey was 16!!! LOLOLOL! Oh and when asked why Casey lied, George said all I can say about my daughter is she's a good mother! WHATEVA....these two really bother me. I know they are going through a hard time but they are like Scott Peterson's parents. Annoying!

But in the beginning Lee was all over the airwaves. I can see backing off a little bit. But the last time I saw him was when he was ripping a sign away from a protester and that was weeks ago.

They are definitely in lala land. George and Cindy had a lot of space between them. Anyone notice that? So if that was not Caylee's body dna and etc in the car-does Casey make a habit of driving cars with dead body fluids in them? It was not squirrels you know. Just curious? JMO We have to remember there are alot of things we have not heard that the Grand Jury heard. Just anxious to know what all that it was.

[NMurphy02]

They are definitely in lala land. George and Cindy had a lot of space between them. Anyone notice that? So if that was not Caylee's body dna and etc in the car-does Casey make a habit of driving cars with dead body fluids in them? It was not squirrels you know. Just curious? JMO We have to remember there are alot of things we have not heard that the Grand Jury heard. Just anxious to know what all that it was.

YES! I noticed they were far apart on the couch.

[sharlock]

I think the speculation re: Casey and Lee's relationship was just kicked around because of the way this family presented itself. I think some folks were able to discuss what alot of people were thinking at the time. I do think the idea that Lee is refusing the Lie Detector test cuz Casey did tell him what happened is an excellent point. He doesn't want to be the one who takes his sister down. He has also lived this family dynamic and has probably covered for her or just shut his mouth when it came to his sister cuz he had to. MOO
I did research where the rumour was coming from and it started with LP on news casts then he supposedly cnfirmed that on the scared monkeys site where a poster says they were ringing him with questions then posting the answers. I'll give you a link but like I said before it is all speculation and I don't think it serves a valid purpose at this time. I know it started on the 3rd Oct and I think it was page 6
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3595.180

[beachbum]

This is such a horrible tragedy i can certainly see this tearing them apart. I remember George discussing on a police interview by audio that he and Cindy had already separated not all that long ago for a few months. I always remember Padilla on N.G. stating that George was living with 2 very controlling women. George is probably not allowed to say what he really thinks and i am sure the defense wants them to appear as a united front until this is all over.:rose:

Dont know if you would say George's testimony would be the tesitmony that sends her away for life but I would imagine Cindy is not having anything to do with him because he did testify against Casey. I feel today they were put together to show support for Casey by her atty team for tvland to see. Beem -she said squirrels crawled up in her car and died. I thought they lived in trees not cars. jmo

[NMurphy02]

Do squirrels eat pizza? :beer:

[lorettalockhorn]

I think the speculation re: Casey and Lee's relationship was just kicked around because of the way this family presented itself. I think some folks were able to discuss what alot of people were thinking at the time. I do think the idea that Lee is refusing the Lie Detector test cuz Casey did tell him what happened is an excellent point. He doesn't want to be the one who takes his sister down. He has also lived this family dynamic and has probably covered for her or just shut his mouth when it came to his sister cuz he had to. MOO

The Anthonys present themselves as incestuous? At the risk of pissing anyone and everyone off; bottom line is that is somewhat insulting to Caylee to continually denigrate her paternity. IF DNA results prove Lee to be the father, that might answer why he is refusing to comply with the warrant and might answer his role in the crimes committed. Outside of that, I don't see the value of the discussion.

But that's just me.

[NMurphy02]

but I would never contribute a dime to the Anthony family and their charity. Number 1 they are delusional and it wouldn't surprise me to find out the money was somehow being filtered to Casey's defense. I would contribute a donation to TES or any of the other missing childrens charities. But the Anthony family isn't trustworthy in my opinion. I'm just throwing this out here because of what George was saying at the end of the Today show. And because of what was being posted in the the Caylee Anthony no discussion thread.

[beachbum]

The Anthonys present themselves as incestuous? At the risk of pissing anyone and everyone off; bottom line is that is somewhat insulting to Caylee to continually denigrate her paternity. IF DNA results prove Lee to be the father, that might answer why he is refusing to comply with the warrant and might answer his role in the crimes committed. Outside of that, I don't see the value of the discussion.

But that's just me.

IMO I think her paternity is fishy. They have told the her father was killed in an accident and there have been other stories about who the dad is. Remember she even told one of her boyfriends he was the dad of Caylee-his dad has been on NG with lots of pictures of her as a baby. His name fails me now. I dont know at what point it ended he was not the dad and then I heard Cindy tell it was another guy to detectives. I think there are lies about Caylee's real paternity just as there are many lies surfacing that Casey has told and we dont know who it is. I think with all the craziness of this case- its just been tossed around that Lee might be the father--no one wants to believe it but no one really wants to believe Casey killed Caylee either. Unthinkable but afraid its true.

[joekuhl79]

Lee has obviously not been forthcoming. He helped at first, but since has - IIRC - refused to submit a DNA sample and refused to take a lie detector test.

Plain and simple he has something to hide.

I don't think he had any part in what happened to Caylee. I don't think Casey enlisted him to help with any clean-up/cover-up.

Unless Casey was raped while passed out or something, she knows who Caylees father is. But she has been telling different lies to different people about who that is.

The fact is that there is the possibility that Lee could be the father.

I don't think that is any insult to Caylee, and I don't think it plays as 'soap opera-y'.

These are facts and are relevant.



As far as Padilla originating this 'rumor'? (You say rumor, I say theory or possible scenario - no one is insinuating that this is true)

Back when he said that on NG, I came on here and mentioned that maybe he was reading THIS forum because the idea was posted here long before he said it.

[lorettalockhorn]

ITA that Lee seems to have something to hide, and God only knows what it is. But to continue to speculate that Casey in the product of incest between Casey and him is simply not germane to us at this time. If DNA proves that he is, that's a whole nuther animal, because it might prove motive for his involvement in the crimes.

It's not bad enough that Caylee is dead? Likely at the hands of her mother? That G&C continue to bollix the investigation and spew their delusions all over the world? That Casey's the snot nosed ******* brat who seemingly had no one to assure her future? Now her incestuous paternity is so very important to the noodlings of the hoi polloi?

Whatever.

[Brainstorm]

ITA that Lee seems to have something to hide, and God only knows what it is. But to continue to speculate that Casey in the product of incest between Casey and him is simply not germane to us at this time. If DNA proves that he is, that's a whole nuther animal, because it might prove motive for his involvement in the crimes.

It's not bad enough that Caylee is dead? Likely at the hands of her mother? That G&C continue to bollix the investigation and spew their delusions all over the world? That Casey's the snot nosed ******* brat who seemingly had no one to assure her future? Now her incestuous paternity is so very important to the noodlings of the hoi polloi?

Whatever.


I agree. Its bad enough as it is.

[lorettalockhorn]

Lee has obviously not been forthcoming. He helped at first, but since has - IIRC - refused to submit a DNA sample and refused to take a lie detector test.

Plain and simple he has something to hide.

I don't think he had any part in what happened to Caylee. I don't think Casey enlisted him to help with any clean-up/cover-up.

Unless Casey was raped while passed out or something, she knows who Caylees father is. But she has been telling different lies to different people about who that is.

The fact is that there is the possibility that Lee could be the father.

I don't think that is any insult to Caylee, and I don't think it plays as 'soap opera-y'.

These are facts and are relevant.



As far as Padilla originating this 'rumor'? (You say rumor, I say theory or possible scenario - no one is insinuating that this is true)

Back when he said that on NG, I came on here and mentioned that maybe he was reading THIS forum because the idea was posted here long before he said it.

You lost me here. Sure there's a possibility that Lee's the father. Along with untold others simply by virtue of the fact that they are male. What and where are these facts that you speak of?

[NMurphy02]

I agree with u Murph i would give it to Tim or another organization. I would hate to think the Anthony's benefited in any way. What did George say at the end of the today show?

He started to mention looking for Caylee and I had to turn the TV off. Then I saw where Cindy was talking about starting a charity that would help find missing children and that even after Caylee is found they would continue with it. Yeah right. Wanna bet once the body is found they will close up shop?

[Gatordog]

Sounds very plausible. Sara and I have kicked around the idea that the parents where on her hit list.

Hi Beemeup,

The only reason I thought of this is I can't get my mind off of the fact that one night she went to sleep with one of the boyfriends and Caylee in the bed with them. Next morning, he woke up and no Caylee only Casey was there. I find it hard to believe that she was able to get out of bed, dress, take the child find her purse and keys, etc., and not disturb the guy at all. She drove all the way home, put the child to sleep and returned to his apartment and got back into bed. It could have been a test run. It's far fetched, but what in this case isn't? :shrug:

[NMurphy02]

Thanks Murph- Yep i am sure they would continue with it with the same effort we have seen from their own granddaughter. Looking means YOU Cindy getting off your azzz..... and roamin not just the public. That i guess is what we cant wrap our head around. If i had a grandchild and i truly thought they were out there i would be searching till the end of time. Obv. Casey means more than Caylee.:rose:

I agree and this is what is so annoying.

Does anyone else think that maybe Lee not submitting to a polygraph or DNA that he is providing reasonable doubt for his sister?

[Gatordog]

Something came to me. I too think Casey may have had a plan to get rid of her parents because of the lies she told about the stroke and so forth. What if her plan was to do away with all 3 of them, Caylee included and get rid of their bodies. She would do all of this at the same time they were supposed to be on vacation then she would tell LE "I don't know what happened, they left for vacation and never came back." If this is the case she would infact need help from somebody. There would be no way she could move George and Cindy's bodies alone. Hmmmm really makes me wonder WHY Lee wasn't included to be killed and WHY he's so quiet now. Just a thought.

How about staging a murder/suicide. She spreads the rumor that George is cheating and that the parents are going to get a divorce. She actually kills the parents and makes it look as if one killed the other. She probably knew that George had a gun in the house. It wouldn't be hard to transfer gunshot residue onto his hand and clothing. She would even be the one to find the bodies.

[beachbum]

No i dont look at it as insult to the child either-I view it as saying a whole lot about the parents-I am only referring to the clients i deal with. No child ever put on this earth ever asked to be brought into unfortunate circumstances. I dont believe either at this point that Lee was involved in any way. I wont rule out that maybe Casey did tell her brother something that would cause him worry if taking a lie detector test. Once again that miserable socio has put others thru so much heartache but that's what they do. That is why i refuse to get into anything here. I wont allow Casey's actions to have the power over me to be untoward someone here. So far nobody here has. That's why i like this board. My anger comes out in sarcasm directed usually at Casey or Cindy. Thats the way i deal and we all deal differently-I respect that. It's all good.


I think this board is good because we all point out things that are important to the case or that is unusual in this case. I love all opinions and it doesnt make me mad. Thats what makes the world go around. :punch:

[Gatordog]

I do not disagree one bit Gator but there really is not going to be a lot left to find. If they find anything. and after this long there may not be any evidence left about how she passed. could still stick with the kidnapping story!!!!!!!!!! IMO sara

They don't need to find much - a tooth, a bone fragment. Just enough for DNA. She could stick to the kidnapping story but with finding the burial site within the area of cell phone reception showing she was there, that's enough for me.

[Gatordog]

[/B]


I wonder if her never letting any of her friends meet her family was in a way Casey thinking her family is already dead. She probably much preferred the company of friends to the company of her family. She just used her family for money, sitter and a place to live. In Casey's mind wouldn't she be so much better off if her parents and child died and she got the house, inheritance AND got to live with her best friend Amy?

Until she bumped off Amy.:eek:

[beachbum]

Thanks Murph- Yep i am sure they would continue with it with the same effort we have seen from their own granddaughter. Looking means YOU Cindy getting off your azzz..... and roamin not just the public. That i guess is what we cant wrap our head around. If i had a grandchild and i truly thought they were out there i would be searching till the end of time. Obv. Casey means more than Caylee.:rose:

I agree and this is what is so annoying.

Does anyone else think that maybe Lee not submitting to a polygraph or DNA that he is providing reasonable doubt for his sister?

Remember their phone conversations when Casey was first put in jail, they were reporting that they felt like Lee and Casey were talking in code. I never got to hear those conversations. Anyone remember anything particular in what they said or talked about?

[One2Snoop]

Hi Beemeup,

The only reason I thought of this is I can't get my mind off of the fact that one night she went to sleep with one of the boyfriends and Caylee in the bed with them. Next morning, he woke up and no Caylee only Casey was there. I find it hard to believe that she was able to get out of bed, dress, take the child find her purse and keys, etc., and not disturb the guy at all. She drove all the way home, put the child to sleep and returned to his apartment and got back into bed. It could have been a test run. It's far fetched, but what in this case isn't? :shrug:

Hey there Gator - welcome back. :seeya:

IIRC Cindy said in one of her interviews with LE that Casey never brought Caylee home in the middle of the night and she doesn't remember calling Casey demanding she bring her home either. So that leaves the question of where exactly did Casey take Caylee that night?

[One2Snoop]

Remember their phone conversations when Casey was first put in jail, they were reporting that they felt like Lee and Casey were talking in code. I never got to hear those conversations. Anyone remember anything particular in what they said or talked about?

You can listen to them - let me find the link - be right back.

[lorettalockhorn]

I agree. Its bad enough as it is.

I like talking smack as much as the next guy, but seriously, at this point I see the incest talk as fomenting exactly that.

What could be more taboo than sleeping with her brother? We already have Casey on record as a chicken consumer, so that rules out cannabalism. She doesn't appear to have eaten human flesh. Yep. Musta slept with Lee.

OR she slept with both Lee and George and had twins. One was taken without her knowledge and is being raised by the town drunk to surface later. Wait. That's One Life To Live.

One thing that I do agree about with just about everyone who has an opinion is that it boggles the mind as to why Lee hasn't complied with the warrant for DNA testing. He's willing to go to jail for contempt for what possible reason? Could be a bombshell!

NMurphy, I think Lee's refusal to submit does just the opposite of providing reasonable doubt.

[Gatordog]

the delusional Anthony's were on Today, today. And Cindy is such a foolio. She was saying that most of the pictures the media have been showing are from when Casey was 16!!! LOLOLOL! Oh and when asked why Casey lied, George said all I can say about my daughter is she's a good mother! WHATEVA....these two really bother me. I know they are going through a hard time but they are like Scott Peterson's parents. Annoying!

But in the beginning Lee was all over the airwaves. I can see backing off a little bit. But the last time I saw him was when he was ripping a sign away from a protester and that was weeks ago.

If she was a good mother, none of this would have happened. Also, regarding photos, Fusion Lounge only opened nine or ten months ago. The building didn't even exist as it's in a brand new strip mall - some stores are still not occupied. How can you take a picture in a place three years before it's even built? Cindy is a lot like Casey, if they say it they expect you to be stupid enough to believe it. :cuss:

[Gatordog]

In the grand scheme of it all Caylee's father whom ever he may be i felt should #1 have the respect of knowing the fact he had a daughter and #2 of now knowing she was deceased. The only fact we do know is that obv. she had a father. I have no idea who the father is and we may never know. Whatever the facts are it wont bring her back.:beer:

I saw a few photos of a young man who was the roommate of Casey's financee (I am only assuming it's Jesse's roommate). Looking at him is like looking at Caylee. Could be the reason for the breakup. I don't want to give out his name but if you did a search, you would find it. The facial features are just about identical.

[Gatordog]

Hey there Gator - welcome back. :seeya:

IIRC Cindy said in one of her interviews with LE that Casey never brought Caylee home in the middle of the night and she doesn't remember calling Casey demanding she bring her home either. So that leaves the question of where exactly did Casey take Caylee that night?

Hi O2S

This is one of those things that nags at me. It sticks out from all the others. I think it's important somehow. It shows either she did put the child in the trunk of the car to sleep or that she did return her home and no one was ever aware of her entering the house.

[beachbum]

According to the man that was on NG that said he saw a woman with the sunglasses on and the big hat on, shovel and bag coming out from that certain area-he said there was a guy with her standing by the lake pretending to fish. Anyone hear that? Maybe it was Lee? jmo

[Gatordog]

Snoop will find it i do remember it being a cryptic conversation surrounding some letter. MOO

Recordings and Transcripts of police interviews.

http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Sidebar/2008/9/27/audio_video_recordings_released_by_law_enforcement .html

http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Sidebar/2008/9/24/files_released_in_casey_anthony_case.html

[Gatordog]

According to the man that was on NG that said he saw a woman with the sunglasses on and the big hat on, shovel and bag coming out from that certain area-he said there was a guy with her standing by the lake pretending to fish. Anyone hear that? Maybe it was Lee? jmo

Yup, I heard that on local news - he said it was odd that standing on a bridge was a well-dressed man, appearing to be fishing, and holding a cell phone. He thought he might have been a lookout because he was dressed so well and didn't appear to be fishing although he had a pole.

[beachbum]

Recordings and Transcripts of police interviews.

http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Sidebar/2008/9/27/audio_video_recordings_released_by_law_enforcement .html

http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Sidebar/2008/9/24/files_released_in_casey_anthony_case.html

Hey thanks for finding it for me.

[One2Snoop]

Snoop will find it i do remember it being a cryptic conversation surrounding some letter. MOO

Here's the link to a video and news report - not sure if the video gives the actual recorded conversation - sorry I'm on an antique computer right now and the video won't play for me -

Video
http://www.wftv.com/video/17047592/index.html

News Article
New Jailhouse Phone Call Released Between Casey Anthony And Brother

POSTED: 7:23 am EDT July 31, 2008
UPDATED: 10:30 am EDT July 31, 2008
http://www.wftv.com/news/17047526/detail.html

[lorettalockhorn]

If she was a good mother, none of this would have happened. Also, regarding photos, Fusion Lounge only opened nine or ten months ago. The building didn't even exist as it's in a brand new strip mall - some stores are still not occupied. How can you take a picture in a place three years before it's even built? Cindy is a lot like Casey, if they say it they expect you to be stupid enough to believe it. :cuss:

You just have to take Cindy calling Casey a good mother with a grain of salt. Her own negligence in this SNAFU makes her opinion moot.

[One2Snoop]

I saw a few photos of a young man who was the roommate of Casey's financee (I am only assuming it's Jesse's roommate). Looking at him is like looking at Caylee. Could be the reason for the breakup. I don't want to give out his name but if you did a search, you would find it. The facial features are just about identical.

I believe that was JP Chatt. http://i34.tinypic.com/10frnuq.jpg

[lorettalockhorn]

Here's the link to a video and news report - not sure if the video gives the actual recorded conversation - sorry I'm on an antique computer right now and the video won't play for me -

Video
http://www.wftv.com/video/17047592/index.html

News Article
New Jailhouse Phone Call Released Between Casey Anthony And Brother

POSTED: 7:23 am EDT July 31, 2008
UPDATED: 10:30 am EDT July 31, 2008
http://www.wftv.com/news/17047526/detail.html


Thanks, O2S, this is what I want to see!

Eyewitness News learned the results of Casey's psychological evaluation were turned over to the Fifth District Court of Appeals and they were the ones who ruled Wednesday afternoon that she would not get another bond hearing. The results of that evaluation are sealed.

[deacon]

Hey there Gator - welcome back. :seeya:

IIRC Cindy said in one of her interviews with LE that Casey never brought Caylee home in the middle of the night and she doesn't remember calling Casey demanding she bring her home either. So that leaves the question of where exactly did Casey take Caylee that night?

I can't remember the date but I think that was when she killed her.

Let's see, I am a male and am married. My wife can get up numerous times during the night and not wake me. If they had been partying up until late, then he very well may have slept through the whole thing.

BTW I think Lee knows something. That is why he is not taking a LDT. The DNA sample may be another concern of his. It could be put in a DNA bank and could come back to haunt him for something he has done in the past. Like father a child with another person. That person may not know who is the father but if DNA tests were done for some reason, he is caught.

[Brainstorm]

How about staging a murder/suicide. She spreads the rumor that George is cheating and that the parents are going to get a divorce. She actually kills the parents and makes it look as if one killed the other. She probably knew that George had a gun in the house. It wouldn't be hard to transfer gunshot residue onto his hand and clothing. She would even be the one to find the bodies.I wouldnt be a BIT surprised if this was about what happened.With the lies she told EACH person/persons involved,her little scheme may just get PROVEN!!!!

Remember their phone conversations when Casey was first put in jail, they were reporting that they felt like Lee and Casey were talking in code. I never got to hear those conversations. Anyone remember anything particular in what they said or talked about?They were kind of strange,imo,because they knew they were being taped,but he was still trying to get her to tell him something.One 2 will find them, Im sure and you can listen.

Hey there Gator - welcome back. :seeya:

IIRC Cindy said in one of her interviews with LE that Casey never brought Caylee home in the middle of the night and she doesn't remember calling Casey demanding she bring her home either. So that leaves the question of where exactly did Casey take Caylee that night?IMO,in the trunk of the car,asleep.

If she was a good mother, none of this would have happened. Also, regarding photos, Fusion Lounge only opened nine or ten months ago. The building didn't even exist as it's in a brand new strip mall - some stores are still not occupied. How can you take a picture in a place three years before it's even built? Cindy is a lot like Casey, if they say it they expect you to be stupid enough to believe it. :cuss:
Cindy/Casey,a LOT ALIKE.Same blood.IMO Cindy is going to HAVE to answer some things too!!!!!
Hi O2S

This is one of those things that nags at me. It sticks out from all the others. I think it's important somehow. It shows either she did put the child in the trunk of the car to sleep or that she did return her home and no one was ever aware of her entering the house.

IMo, she probably wanted some time with Tony,alone.simple as that.I may be completely wrong and hope I am, but imo, she had probably done this before. I wonder how long a child would sleep,IF this had happened before?
I hate to think she may have been in that dark,scary place before.(WHERE ELSE WAS SHE,THO?)
I just PRAY that child didnt suffer.Just went to sleep. AND imagine her waking up in HEAVEN!!!!!!
I believe this,otherwise I couldnt accept this and be here.

[beachbum]

You just have to take Cindy calling Casey a good mother with a grain of salt. Her own negligence in this SNAFU makes her opinion moot.

Remember someone reported that Cindy choked Casey on the day she left out with Caylee because she stole money from her grandparents. Nut dont fall far from the tree. Im sure its been pure hell at that house many times. jmo

[NMurphy02]

Remember their phone conversations when Casey was first put in jail, they were reporting that they felt like Lee and Casey were talking in code. I never got to hear those conversations. Anyone remember anything particular in what they said or talked about?

He kept asking about some letter and she said that she had been too busy (LOLOLOL SITTING IN A CELL?) to start it but that most definately she would get on that. I kept thinking Letter?? It was so strange. And he would start sentences and she would cut in and answer before he finished. It was really strange. Honestly if either one of them said "absolutely" one more time I was going to kick my TV in.

[One2Snoop]

He kept asking about some letter and she said that she had been too busy (LOLOLOL SITTING IN A CELL?) to start it but that most definately she would get on that. I kept thinking Letter?? It was so strange. And he would start sentences and she would cut in and answer before he finished. It was really strange. Honestly if either one of them said "absolutely" one more time I was going to kick my TV in.

I wonder if that was the letter she wrote to Sheriff Beary asking for a special visit with George?

http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photogalleries/092608lettertosheriff/indexGallery.htm

[NMurphy02]

I wonder if that was the letter she wrote to Sheriff Beary asking for a special visit with George?

http://media.myfoxorlando.com/photogalleries/092608lettertosheriff/indexGallery.htm

Good point. I didn't think of that.

[joekuhl79]

You lost me here. Sure there's a possibility that Lee's the father. Along with untold others simply by virtue of the fact that they are male. What and where are these facts that you speak of?

What I said was "The fact is that there is the possibility that Lee could be the father."

I'm not saying that there any facts that support this. I'm not saying I believe this. I'm saying there's the possibility. And yes, there are MANY possibilities. But we shouldn't ignore any just because we don't like what it means.


I (respectively) just don't agree with your argument on why this should not be talked about or mentioned.

[joekuhl79]

If she was a good mother, none of this would have happened. Also, regarding photos, Fusion Lounge only opened nine or ten months ago. The building didn't even exist as it's in a brand new strip mall - some stores are still not occupied. How can you take a picture in a place three years before it's even built? Cindy is a lot like Casey, if they say it they expect you to be stupid enough to believe it. :cuss:

Casey built a time machine?

[Notknowingall]

Casey built a time machine?

That's her (Casey's) next story and she's sticking to it.

[deacon]

Deacon......I think you and I are thinking alike!

Question......If someones DNA is taken , as in a case like this, do the results then get put in Any kind of database?

I am not sure. I would doubt it since he is not charged with a crime. but then again, he may not want to chance it if he can avoid it. Don't think he will though. I really don't know what to think about why they want a sample from him. Can't figure it out.

[One2Snoop]

LOL ~

OVER $200 DEPOSITED INTO CASEY'S JAIL ACCOUNT

Now Casey Anthony has a little money to play with in jail. Wednesday morning, Nola Copeland deposited $50 and Joyce Story deposited $100. It's unclear who the two women are.

Her bail bondsman deposited $51.26 into her jail account Tuesday. That's more than the $50 her father gave her on October 18.

So what could Casey buy with her $200-plus from the jail commissary? She could get a moon pie for 60 cents, a bra for $5.99, about the same price she paid at Target, or she could buy herself a sympathy card for $2.

http://www.wftv.com/news/17777986/detail.html

[lorettalockhorn]

Deacon......I think you and I are thinking alike!

Question......If someones DNA is taken , as in a case like this, do the results then get put in Any kind of database?

Not sure about Florida's law, but some states add people being interviewed, suspects, sex offenders, and violent offenders. As far as we know, Lee only fits that first category. Guess it's possible that Lee's DNA is already in the system for a crime that he hasn't been convicted for, and that might explain why he's willing to go to jail for contempt of court. But once he's in jail, can't the sample be taken without his cooperation? :confused:

[lorettalockhorn]

What I said was "The fact is that there is the possibility that Lee could be the father."

I'm not saying that there any facts that support this. I'm not saying I believe this. I'm saying there's the possibility. And yes, there are MANY possibilities. But we shouldn't ignore any just because we don't like what it means.


I (respectively) just don't agree with your argument on why this should not be talked about or mentioned.

I simply don't see the value of the speculation at this time. What purpose does it serve? This poor child's short life wasn't pathetic enough? I just (less respectfully) don't agree with your argument for disparaging her genesis.

[Sea Zephyr]

No matter what was Caylee's parentage, it doesn't take away from her inherent worth and dignity as a human being. So to me personally, I don't find it degrading to Caylee to speculate about the possibility of Lee being the father. However, out of fairness to everyone involved, I just think we should remember that almost all we're doing here is speculating. I'm sure there's tons of information we're not privy to.

[lorettalockhorn]

No matter what was Caylee's parentage, it doesn't take away from her inherent worth and dignity as a human being. So to me personally, I don't find it degrading to speculate about the possibility of Lee being the father. However, out of fairness to everyone involved, I just think we should remember that almost all we're doing here is speculating. I'm sure there's tons of information we're not privy to.

I agree that nothing can take away from Caylee's inherent worth and dignity as a human being. Using her parentage to vilify Casey to the Nth degree does. When and if Lee is found to be Caylee's father, we'll have plenty to talk about; like his motive to commit or abet in these crimes against the child.

[lorettalockhorn]

Sure it can with a simple court order. He may be just one of those folk that dont believe it's right. Who knows.

Exactly. So when does the warrant that was issued for his DNA expire?

[beachbum]

So what if Casey had shared parenting rights with the father-unless he was really dead, this might have lightened her load as being a parent and he might have had visitation rights and actually had her for the summer visitation so Casey could "do her thing" and this would not have happened. I just feel there is more there than we know. As for Lee doesnt he have a pretty good job(I believe I read that he does and I know my son has just been hired for a company that required a background check)


I dont think any of us are here to "down" Caylee. I feel we are here to support her since her family has let her down. jmo

[beachbum]

thats what leads me to believe she has no idea who the father was. None of us here would ever down caylee we are all here for justice for caylee.:rose:

ditto!

[beachbum]

thats what leads me to believe she has no idea who the father was. None of us here would ever down caylee we are all here for justice for caylee.:rose:

ditto!

[beachbum]

My computer just messed up so disregard the second ditto.

[SaraSidle]

Not necessarily. It sometimes depends on the family health history, genes, and how far down the line the incest has taken place. (ie, if Cindy or George were the product of incest also)

I've known quite few people that were conceived that way and most are no more unhealthy or less intelligent than anyone else I known.

There's actually a pair of 1st cousins here in the town I live in that got special permission from the Crown to get married and they have two kids. One of the kids is a college science professor (was in the top 10 of his graduating class too) and the other is some kind of health technician. Neither has any health problems or deformities. Actually, they are much healthier than their parents are.

But, I also know a family in the US where one of the daughters had several children by her father and her children do have some mental disabilities which her and her father both share. This girl had 3 kids by her dad before the state finally removed her and the kids from the home and locked his @$$ up and the child welfare workers knew about it for at least 2 years before he was arrested. That happened about 15 years ago so I'm hoping they are more thorough in their investigating now. :mad:


great post grneyes. I totally agree with you on this. sara IMO

[SaraSidle]

The nano second i was able to keep my lids open what i noticed was how tense they both looked. Cindy sitting forward. They both looked very uncomfortable. I guess i should reserve my opinion till i see it all. Correct me if i am wrong but did she not say at the time dead squirrels had gotten on the front of her car? I didn't know dead animals could crawl.:D

I am sure this is nothing more than new ways to sell for the media. IMO Sara

[One2Snoop]

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Casey Anthony May Have Searched Online For Chloroform Recipes

POSTED: 4:42 pm EDT October 22, 2008
UPDATED: 5:23 pm EDT October 22, 2008

ORANGE COUNTY, Fla. -- Did Casey Anthony kill her own daughter with chloroform? Eyewitness News has learned someone was looking up the recipe to cook up the chemical on Casey's home computer around the same time Caylee disappeared.

There was evidence of high levels of chloroform in the trunk of Casey's car and sheriff's investigators found that someone on Casey Anthony's computer was researching not where to buy chloroform, but how to make it yourself, which can be done easily.
Eyewitness News legal analyst Bill Sheaffer says, if you were up to no good, there would be an advantage to making it as opposed to buying it.

When you Google "how do you make chloroform," more than a million websites are listed with instructions. On the first one, page one had an explicit warning about chloroform's dangers, calling the chemical extremely dangerous and unpredictable and warning never to allow children to come near chloroform.

FBI lab tests show high levels of chloroform in the trunk of Casey's car, where investigators say Caylee's body had been. And there was a mysterious stain in the trunk along with Caylee's hairs and dirt.

"Another piece of evidence in the circumstantial chain," Sheaffer said.

Sheaffer said it's significant because, if Casey made the chloroform as opposed to buying it, she could have been trying to cover her tracks. Buying it would have generated some sort of record.

"This way certainly, she could argue, 'Alright, I was interested in looking into how to make chloroform, but I never did.' Or, 'That's why you smelled chloroform in the trunk area, because I was experimenting in making it,'" Sheaffer said.

Record or not, the jury would be faced with a compromising question for Casey.

"Why would you need to make chloroform. For what purpose?" Sheaffer questioned.

Last week, the Orange County grand jury heard from the FBI and one of the sheriff's computer investigators and that information is going to be released to the public very soon.

http://www.wftv.com/news/17781526/detail.html

[SaraSidle]

Lee has obviously not been forthcoming. He helped at first, but since has - IIRC - refused to submit a DNA sample and refused to take a lie detector test.

Plain and simple he has something to hide.

I don't think he had any part in what happened to Caylee. I don't think Casey enlisted him to help with any clean-up/cover-up.

Unless Casey was raped while passed out or something, she knows who Caylees father is. But she has been telling different lies to different people about who that is.

The fact is that there is the possibility that Lee could be the father.

I don't think that is any insult to Caylee, and I don't think it plays as 'soap opera-y'.

These are facts and are relevant.



As far as Padilla originating this 'rumor'? (You say rumor, I say theory or possible scenario - no one is insinuating that this is true)

Back when he said that on NG, I came on here and mentioned that maybe he was reading THIS forum because the idea was posted here long before he said it.


Excellent Post. Joe and I agree with you. I wonder what we will find out about the details in the case but we need to find Caylee and bring her home and punish her mother. If I could afford it I would fly to Orando and help look 12 hours a day.....IMO sara

[SaraSidle]

How about staging a murder/suicide. She spreads the rumor that George is cheating and that the parents are going to get a divorce. She actually kills the parents and makes it look as if one killed the other. She probably knew that George had a gun in the house. It wouldn't be hard to transfer gunshot residue onto his hand and clothing. She would even be the one to find the bodies.

I am all over that one Gator. Still do not know if Caylee was an accident but from what she said to Amy I am still convinced she wanted the parents to go. I think you are spot on......

[SaraSidle]

They don't need to find much - a tooth, a bone fragment. Just enough for DNA. She could stick to the kidnapping story but with finding the burial site within the area of cell phone reception showing she was there, that's enough for me.

Yes but I would like to find evidence Gator. And I am afraid that will not happen........sara IMO

[SaraSidle]

Yes but I would like to find evidence Gator. And I am afraid that will not happen........sara IMO

I love quoting myself. I think we have done a wonderful job as beachbum has stated. It has been 4 long month with very littlle postive which could sure make us not nice. thanks for all the great posts everyone. I felt very informed and good posting with all of you. IMO sara

[One2Snoop]

I hope you all are watching NG - they're talking about how Casey searched the internet on how to make chloroform - also mentioned they believe Casey drove her car around for 11 days with Caylee in the trunk. :flamemad:

[SaraSidle]

Well said!!:rose::rose:

Oh yeah. It really does not matter who Caylee is fathered by. I just want us to get evidence to prove where her body is and please giver her a proper burial. All the media and rumors cannot be proven by this board but I really am beginning to wonder about Lee knowing something. IMO sara

[SaraSidle]

I hope you all are watching NG - they're talking about how Casey searched the internet on how to make chloroform - also mentioned they believe Casey drove her car around for 11 days with Caylee in the trunk. :flamemad:

Heard it One2Snoop and I would give anything to know the truth. Still looking at the pool too. I do not think I can believe 11 days but would not be surprised. It is only a theory but not a bad one......IMO sara

[deputydi]

NG usually gets on my last nerve when she interrupts and screeches at her guests. Tonight she expressed empathy for the Anthonys and I totally agree with her.

I was late for work this morning because I just had to watch Cindy and George on the Today Show. While they were talking and evading some direct questions, I got angry. I just couldn't understand how they could still be so convinced Caylee is alive or how they could state publicly that they would stand by Casey "no matter what".

During my drive to work I calmed down and it dawned on me that this couple is faced with probably THE most difficult situation any parent can be faced with. I have three adult children and I had to ask myself what would I do. The probable answer is exactly what George and Cindy are doing. Publicly, I would be defending my child regardless of what he/she is accused of. Privately, I would be in a living hell. They are in a no-win situation. Publicly they have to put on their optimistic face but none of us know the hell they are in when they close their door.

On the remote chance Caylee is found alive, they can't take the chance of having gone on national tv accusing their daughter of murder. If Caylee's remains are found, they have to cling to the belief that someone else murdered their beloved granddaughter. I think they are just simply in survival mode and can't bring themselves to admit (at least publicly) that they have any doubt about their daughter's innocence.

What seems to be obvious to all of us isn't acceptable to them and, to survive this, they have to publicly express belief in their daughter. Does any of this make sense?

[SaraSidle]

NG usually gets on my last nerve when she interrupts and screeches at her guests. Tonight she expressed empathy for the Anthonys and I totally agree with her.

I was late for work this morning because I just had to watch Cindy and George on the Today Show. While they were talking and evading some direct questions, I got angry. I just couldn't understand how they could still be so convinced Caylee is alive or how they could state publicly that they would stand by Casey "no matter what".

During my drive to work I calmed down and it dawned on me that this couple is faced with probably THE most difficult situation any parent can be faced with. I have three adult children and I had to ask myself what would I do. The probable answer is exactly what George and Cindy are doing. Publicly, I would be defending my child regardless of what he/she is accused of. Privately, I would be in a living hell. They are in a no-win situation. Publicly they have to put on their optimistic face but none of us know the hell they are in when they close their door.

On the remote chance Caylee is found alive, they can't take the chance of having gone on national tv accusing their daughter of murder. If Caylee's remains are found, they have to cling to the belief that someone else murdered their beloved granddaughter. I think they are just simply in survival mode and can't bring themselves to admit (at least publicly) that they have any doubt about their daughter's innocence.

What seems to be obvious to all of us isn't acceptable to them and, to survive this, they have to publicly express belief in their daughter. Does any of this make sense?


It makes perfect sense and You make very good points. I am not a mother but I undertand love children. I adored my niece whose mother has turned her into a drug addict and that was hard, I raised her her first 10 yrs. It would be like purgatory to be G and C. they obviously adored Caylee and may now lose their only daughter. I am not suprised by the denial. Some of us can handle only so much. G and C may never think Casey killed Caylee but that Caylee was kidnapped. I understand you totally and it is a great post. IMO sara

[deputydi]

It makes perfect sense and You make very good points. I am not a mother but I undertand love children. I adored my niece whose mother has turned her into a drug addict and that was hard, I raised her her first 10 yrs. It would be like purgatory to be G and C. they obviously adored Caylee and may now lose their only daughter. I am not suprised by the denial. Some of us can handle only so much. G and C may never think Casey killed Caylee but that Caylee was kidnapped. I understand you totally and it is a great post. IMO sara
Thanks, Sara. The nightmare that the Anthonys can't wake up from haunts me. From the beginning, I have felt empathy for them but then I would get angry at their refusal to see the obvious. I wish more posters who are so down on G & C would step back and put themselves (honestly) in their shoes.

I am so sorry about your niece and hope she is able to turn her life around. Sometimes it just takes one person who loves them unconditionally to open his/her eyes. It seems that you may be that person for your niece. Don't give up on her.

[SaraSidle]

Thanks, Sara. The nightmare that the Anthonys can't wake up from haunts me. From the beginning, I have felt empathy for them but then I would get angry at their refusal to see the obvious. I wish more posters who are so down on G & C would step back and put themselves (honestly) in their shoes.

I am so sorry about your niece and hope she is able to turn her life around. Sometimes it just takes one person who loves them unconditionally to open his/her eyes. It seems that you may be that person for your niece. Don't give up on her.

thanks deputydi I have tried everything I could. I know she is lost to me. I understand many people are angry at C and G but you know they raised Caylee as their own. How do you accept the daughter you love hurt the granddaughter you love? I imagine we are talking years of counseling and drugs not to mention if the marriage will last. Even if Cindy was that controlling and George let her I cannot blame them at all this time. If it is making the pain easier for them they obviously need to do denial at this time. .........IMO sara

[lorettalockhorn]

Thats what leads me to believe she has no idea who the father was. None of us here would ever down Caylee we are all here for justice for Caylee.:rose:

Absolutely justice for Caylee! And I went back to read and see if I had truly missed any posts that dealt with Lee being the father and how it pertains to the matters at hand and nada. Which doesn't mean that I didn't miss good posts, suppositions, theories, etc. BUT possibilities are not facts. If and when we do learn Caylee's paternity, there will be plenty to digest with regard to her motive and possibly the father's. (Like a lot of you, I don't think she knows.)

So onto Nancy Grace. Now we know that Casey not only cooked pasta, but may have cooked chloroform. You know, when it comes to chores around the house and getting things done, I'm your girl. But DIY chemistry? No way.

Is it just me, but does it seem like NG is giving Tim Miller short shrift? She used to give him a glowing intro and acknowledge his victim status; lately it seems like she is grilling him and asking him for honestly about his search. Did I miss something?

[lorettalockhorn]

NG usually gets on my last nerve when she interrupts and screeches at her guests. Tonight she expressed empathy for the Anthonys and I totally agree with her.

I was late for work this morning because I just had to watch Cindy and George on the Today Show. While they were talking and evading some direct questions, I got angry. I just couldn't understand how they could still be so convinced Caylee is alive or how they could state publicly that they would stand by Casey "no matter what".

During my drive to work I calmed down and it dawned on me that this couple is faced with probably THE most difficult situation any parent can be faced with. I have three adult children and I had to ask myself what would I do. The probable answer is exactly what George and Cindy are doing. Publicly, I would be defending my child regardless of what he/she is accused of. Privately, I would be in a living hell. They are in a no-win situation. Publicly they have to put on their optimistic face but none of us know the hell they are in when they close their door.

On the remote chance Caylee is found alive, they can't take the chance of having gone on national tv accusing their daughter of murder. If Caylee's remains are found, they have to cling to the belief that someone else murdered their beloved granddaughter. I think they are just simply in survival mode and can't bring themselves to admit (at least publicly) that they have any doubt about their daughter's innocence.

What seems to be obvious to all of us isn't acceptable to them and, to survive this, they have to publicly express belief in their daughter. Does any of this make sense?

Makes total sense. We have the benefit of physical and emotional distance.

One thing that was very interesting on NG tonight was that Leonard posed to Nancy that G&C are saying one thing publicly and then being perfectly candid (and realistic) with law enforcement. That thought was appalling to me in light of the fact that they are taking hard earned money from people who are still willing to donate to their charity. It was also suggested that they might channel those funds to Casey's defense.

Nothing about this case makes sane logical sense to me. Nothing.

[SaraSidle]

Absolutely justice for Caylee! And I went back to read and see if I had truly missed any posts that dealt with Lee being the father and how it pertains to the matters at hand and nada. Which doesn't mean that I didn't miss good posts, suppositions, theories, etc. BUT possibilities are not facts. If and when we do learn Caylee's paternity, there will be plenty to digest with regard to her motive and possibly the father's. (Like a lot of you, I don't think she knows.)

So onto Nancy Grace. Now we know that Casey not only cooked pasta, but may have cooked chloroform. You know, when it comes to chores around the house and getting things done, I'm your girl. But DIY chemistry? No way.

Is it just me, but does it seem like NG is giving Tim Miller short shrift? She used to give him a glowing intro and acknowledge his victim status; lately it seems like she is grilling him and asking him for honestly about his search. Did I miss something?

hello Loretta. I think the Lee thing was started by LP. He stated Lee and he talked and do not be surprised if Lee turned out to be the father. It was on a NG show but I do not know which one. NG was shutting down Tim Miller and I cannot imagine why. A lot of her shows may be helping with the search keeping it public. I do think she wants him to give details on where the search will be and of course he cannot do that. Strangers could ruin any scene.
Yeah I am afraid of all chemicals. I think she has a very cold mind. IMO sara

[lorettalockhorn]

Sara, as far as I can remember it was LP that started that rumor/spoiler. Maybe that's what has Lee so mum at this point.

[beachbum]

Leonard Pedilla actually spent alot of time with the family if you will remember when he came to bail out Casey. I figure he has a little insight on them, more than we would. He was with all 4 of them. Not sure why he would say that on national tv, had it not been brought up at the home. JMO

[SaraSidle]

Leonard Pedilla actually spent alot of time with the family if you will remember when he came to bail out Casey. I figure he has a little insight on them, more than we would. He was with all 4 of them. Not sure why he would say that on national tv, had it not been brought up at the home. JMO

Well there are 2 things I know about LP. he loves to be in the news and he loves to be in the spotlight. and this is all I will say.........IMO

[lorettalockhorn]

beachbum, I'm not much surprised much by anything that anyone says on NG anymore. Lord only knows the motive(s).

[lorettalockhorn]

Well there are 2 things I know about LP. he loves to be in the news and he loves to be in the spotlight. and this is all I will say.........IMO

Maybe he wants to be the new Dog.

[SaraSidle]

Maybe he wants to be the new Dog.

Okay that too....

[minga]

Most everything being said in this case is speculation except the documented points which have been released. Some validated and others speculated upon. IOW what they want us to know...we know. What they don't want us to know we don't and can only speculate. We can speculate until doomsday on this that and the other and (in my opinion only) everything and anything is possible, within that realm of speculation. Who can even begin to fathom what this girl has done? If she can murder her beautiful and precious, innocent baby she's capable of anything at all. Caylee's paternity doesn't matter a whit in the long run, nor does the speculation of paternity diminish the beauty or innocence of her. That was never the case when I or anyone else spoke of it.

I don't like being censored unless it's by a moderator. If a mod tells me that my posts are inappropriate I will cease to post something she/he deems to be of that nature. Otherwise anyone unhappy with what some of us think and have to say should simply use the time honored method of ignoring something they don't like.

Many things in this case being speculated upon by us don't further the issue of resolving it. So again, no one except a mod decides what's appropriate and what's not. We've had no problems with this board, let's not make any now. Everyone's opinion, theory, hunch or question is as valid as anyone else's and everyone has the right to state them.

I don't mean to start a war, but I won't accept self appointed thought police. When I see Moderator behind anyone's name then I'll retract my statements if and when told to.

I might be sorry I made this post tomorrow, but right now it really ticks me off.

[NMurphy02]

NG usually gets on my last nerve when she interrupts and screeches at her guests. Tonight she expressed empathy for the Anthonys and I totally agree with her.

I was late for work this morning because I just had to watch Cindy and George on the Today Show. While they were talking and evading some direct questions, I got angry. I just couldn't understand how they could still be so convinced Caylee is alive or how they could state publicly that they would stand by Casey "no matter what".

During my drive to work I calmed down and it dawned on me that this couple is faced with probably THE most difficult situation any parent can be faced with. I have three adult children and I had to ask myself what would I do. The probable answer is exactly what George and Cindy are doing. Publicly, I would be defending my child regardless of what he/she is accused of. Privately, I would be in a living hell. They are in a no-win situation. Publicly they have to put on their optimistic face but none of us know the hell they are in when they close their door.

On the remote chance Caylee is found alive, they can't take the chance of having gone on national tv accusing their daughter of murder. If Caylee's remains are found, they have to cling to the belief that someone else murdered their beloved granddaughter. I think they are just simply in survival mode and can't bring themselves to admit (at least publicly) that they have any doubt about their daughter's innocence.

What seems to be obvious to all of us isn't acceptable to them and, to survive this, they have to publicly express belief in their daughter. Does any of this make sense?


They should be out looking for Caylee and NOT accusing other people of being the ones to take her. Granted they are going through a hard time but falsely accusing Jesse and Amy of having anything to do with this doesn't help anyone except their loser daughter. They are in denial land and I understand that, but I can't sit back and feel sorry for a family that says one thing one day and something else the other. They are backing their daughter and that's their right. But don't hurt other people in the process IMO.

[NMurphy02]

LOL ~

OVER $200 DEPOSITED INTO CASEY'S JAIL ACCOUNT

Now Casey Anthony has a little money to play with in jail. Wednesday morning, Nola Copeland deposited $50 and Joyce Story deposited $100. It's unclear who the two women are.

Her bail bondsman deposited $51.26 into her jail account Tuesday. That's more than the $50 her father gave her on October 18.

So what could Casey buy with her $200-plus from the jail commissary? She could get a moon pie for 60 cents, a bra for $5.99, about the same price she paid at Target, or she could buy herself a sympathy card for $2.

http://www.wftv.com/news/17777986/detail.html


Maybe Amy can get a judgement on this.

[sharlock]

What I said was "The fact is that there is the possibility that Lee could be the father."

I'm not saying that there any facts that support this. I'm not saying I believe this. I'm saying there's the possibility. And yes, there are MANY possibilities. But we shouldn't ignore any just because we don't like what it means.


I (respectively) just don't agree with your argument on why this should not be talked about or mentioned.
joekuhl, I never meant to suggest that people couldn't talk about it and when someone earlier in the thread showed interest in where this idea came from, I supplied a link to the site where LP was supposedly supplying answers to questions, and said that LE and the family knew who the father was and that it was a member of the Anthony family. I am just giving my opinion on the relevance of this at the moment as I have found no definitive proof that LP really did provide those answers or that he would be privvy to such info. I do think it detracts from the case in its sensationalism but that is my opinion and while I feel free to give it on this board I don't think anyone else is obliged to listen to me.

[sharlock]

NG usually gets on my last nerve when she interrupts and screeches at her guests. Tonight she expressed empathy for the Anthonys and I totally agree with her.

I was late for work this morning because I just had to watch Cindy and George on the Today Show. While they were talking and evading some direct questions, I got angry. I just couldn't understand how they could still be so convinced Caylee is alive or how they could state publicly that they would stand by Casey "no matter what".

During my drive to work I calmed down and it dawned on me that this couple is faced with probably THE most difficult situation any parent can be faced with. I have three adult children and I had to ask myself what would I do. The probable answer is exactly what George and Cindy are doing. Publicly, I would be defending my child regardless of what he/she is accused of. Privately, I would be in a living hell. They are in a no-win situation. Publicly they have to put on their optimistic face but none of us know the hell they are in when they close their door.

On the remote chance Caylee is found alive, they can't take the chance of having gone on national tv accusing their daughter of murder. If Caylee's remains are found, they have to cling to the belief that someone else murdered their beloved granddaughter. I think they are just simply in survival mode and can't bring themselves to admit (at least publicly) that they have any doubt about their daughter's innocence.

What seems to be obvious to all of us isn't acceptable to them and, to survive this, they have to publicly express belief in their daughter. Does any of this make sense?
It makes a lot of sense and I agree. :beer:

[sharlock]

Most everything being said in this case is speculation except the documented points which have been released. Some validated and others speculated upon. IOW what they want us to know...we know. What they don't want us to know we don't and can only speculate. We can speculate until doomsday on this that and the other and (in my opinion only) everything and anything is possible, within that realm of speculation. Who can even begin to fathom what this girl has done? If she can murder her beautiful and precious, innocent baby she's capable of anything at all. Caylee's paternity doesn't matter a whit in the long run, nor does the speculation of paternity diminish the beauty or innocence of her. That was never the case when I or anyone else spoke of it.

I don't like being censored unless it's by a moderator. If a mod tells me that my posts are inappropriate I will cease to post something she/he deems to be of that nature. Otherwise anyone unhappy with what some of us think and have to say should simply use the time honored method of ignoring something they don't like.

Many things in this case being speculated upon by us don't further the issue of resolving it. So again, no one except a mod decides what's appropriate and what's not. We've had no problems with this board, let's not make any now. Everyone's opinion, theory, hunch or question is as valid as anyone else's and everyone has the right to state them.

I don't mean to start a war, but I won't accept self appointed thought police. When I see Moderator behind anyone's name then I'll retract my statements if and when told to.

I might be sorry I made this post tomorrow, but right now it really ticks me off.

Don't stress Minga, you aren't going to start a war by expressing your thoughts. I really don't think anyone is trying to censor you or anyone else though, just expressing our thoughts too. You are free to disagree with them; in fact that is why I have always liked this board, people can disagree and it doesn't lead into a dog fight. 9 times out of 10 you just see people rushing to express themselves more clearly so as not to aggravate the situation. We are all entitled to our opinions.:seeya:

[sharlock]

I was just trying to work in the chloroform recipes into a theory and I wondered if Casey may have planned to knock Casey out with it then put her in the pool to drown. Maybe she panicked when Caylee died from the chloroform before she got her in the pool. Casey put her in the pool and started calling to get the parents to come home to the drowned Caylee but realised belatedly that there would be no water in Caylee's lungs and realised she had to change her plan. More panick now; the pings indicate that she drove near the hospital but she obviously never went in. Doesn't know what to do and now has a dead body in the trunk.
Is it too out there or does it sound feasible? I'd like some other perspectives on this.

[Gatordog]

I am not sure. I would doubt it since he is not charged with a crime. but then again, he may not want to chance it if he can avoid it. Don't think he will though. I really don't know what to think about why they want a sample from him. Can't figure it out.

They wanted DNA from George, Cindy and Lee because of the DNA of the hair that was in the trunk. I believe it's inconclusive as to specifically being Caley's. It has mitocondrial (sp) DNA which means that Cindy, Casey and Lee also have that same DNA and they need to rule them out. I guess they asked for George's just to say they ruled out his posibility also.

[joekuhl79]

No matter what was Caylee's parentage, it doesn't take away from her inherent worth and dignity as a human being. So to me personally, I don't find it degrading to Caylee to speculate about the possibility of Lee being the father. However, out of fairness to everyone involved, I just think we should remember that almost all we're doing here is speculating. I'm sure there's tons of information we're not privy to.

Thank you.

[beachbum]

Maybe he wants to be the new Dog.

I was really surprised Pedilla became a frequent guest on NG's show. NG seemed rather put out with him at first because he was bailing Casey out, but when it came down to the 2nd bail out, he didnt do it and she had a change of heart. I do figure he knows a few things and has shared them with NG because he was so close to the situation.

[lorettalockhorn]

Don't think I've seen any censorship or thought police around here either. I have questioned why people dwell on the possibility that Lee is Caylee's father without actually tying it to the motive or solution of the crimes. What I have seen is that possibility used to vilify Casey and add to the EWWWWW Factor which pretty well describes her life as we know it.

Possibilities are not facts. And I'm sorry if my posts have put anyone on the defensive. My opinions are just like everyone else's; just food for thought.

[lorettalockhorn]

I was really surprised Pedilla became a frequent guest on NG's show. NG seemed rather put out with him at first because he was bailing Casey out, but when it came down to the 2nd bail out, he didnt do it and she had a change of heart. I do figure he knows a few things and has shared them with NG because he was so close to the situation.

Noticed the same thing. And she treated Tim Miller warmly and with much respect until he left Orlando to travel to NC. Now she seems to rag on him about the real reason that he has chosen 11/8 to return. She's mercurial to say the least and I try to carefully sift through what information she allows and what spin is on it.

[joekuhl79]

joekuhl, I never meant to suggest that people couldn't talk about it and when someone earlier in the thread showed interest in where this idea came from, I supplied a link to the site where LP was supposedly supplying answers to questions, and said that LE and the family knew who the father was and that it was a member of the Anthony family. I am just giving my opinion on the relevance of this at the moment as I have found no definitive proof that LP really did provide those answers or that he would be privvy to such info. I do think it detracts from the case in its sensationalism but that is my opinion and while I feel free to give it on this board I don't think anyone else is obliged to listen to me.

Right...you gave a link to the Padilla starting the idea about Lee, but I was mentioning that the idea was presented here well before LP said it. ITA with everything your saying. I didn't in any way mean to suggest that you were wanting to stifle any discussion.

But as far as 'detracting from the case in its sensationalism'? Insinuating Caseys a *****, or that she wanted to start an escort service, or that she may have been planning to kill her parents, or any other possible theory? How are those any less sensational than Lee being Caseys father?!

[joekuhl79]

I simply don't see the value of the speculation at this time. What purpose does it serve? This poor child's short life wasn't pathetic enough? I just (less respectfully) don't agree with your argument for disparaging her genesis.

loetta...I was mentioning a possible theory. There are many many possible theories floating around here.

Why you want to censor this one possible theory is beyond me. My 'argument for disparaging her genesis'?! I think you have issues with this that I don't understand.

I never meant for this to be so drawn out, so I'm now done with this particular issue, for now anyway.

[joekuhl79]

Most everything being said in this case is speculation except the documented points which have been released. Some validated and others speculated upon. IOW what they want us to know...we know. What they don't want us to know we don't and can only speculate. We can speculate until doomsday on this that and the other and (in my opinion only) everything and anything is possible, within that realm of speculation. Who can even begin to fathom what this girl has done? If she can murder her beautiful and precious, innocent baby she's capable of anything at all. Caylee's paternity doesn't matter a whit in the long run, nor does the speculation of paternity diminish the beauty or innocence of her. That was never the case when I or anyone else spoke of it.

I don't like being censored unless it's by a moderator. If a mod tells me that my posts are inappropriate I will cease to post something she/he deems to be of that nature. Otherwise anyone unhappy with what some of us think and have to say should simply use the time honored method of ignoring something they don't like.

Many things in this case being speculated upon by us don't further the issue of resolving it. So again, no one except a mod decides what's appropriate and what's not. We've had no problems with this board, let's not make any now. Everyone's opinion, theory, hunch or question is as valid as anyone else's and everyone has the right to state them.

I don't mean to start a war, but I won't accept self appointed thought police. When I see Moderator behind anyone's name then I'll retract my statements if and when told to.

I might be sorry I made this post tomorrow, but right now it really ticks me off.

Well said.

[joekuhl79]

I was just trying to work in the chloroform recipes into a theory and I wondered if Casey may have planned to knock Casey out with it then put her in the pool to drown. Maybe she panicked when Caylee died from the chloroform before she got her in the pool. Casey put her in the pool and started calling to get the parents to come home to the drowned Caylee but realised belatedly that there would be no water in Caylee's lungs and realised she had to change her plan. More panick now; the pings indicate that she drove near the hospital but she obviously never went in. Doesn't know what to do and now has a dead body in the trunk.
Is it too out there or does it sound feasible? I'd like some other perspectives on this.

With Casey, anything is possible...

But I really don't think she had planned on killing Caylee. The idea that she may have used chloroform or xanax as a 'babysitter'; or that she had Caylee 'nap' in the trunk; or her lies about getting the house and the possibility of some sinister plan for her parents; or that she was checking lost children sites for homework in staging a kidnapping...I can see how those may have been plans, or ideas for her.

I just don't think that if she had planned on killing Caylee, her plan wouldn't have included getting rid of a body. It would appear that she panicked after the fact, and that makes me believe that she didn't intend to kill Caylee.

[lorettalockhorn]

loetta...I was mentioning a possible theory. There are many many possible theories floating around here.

Why you want to censor this one possible theory is beyond me. My 'argument for disparaging her genesis'?! I think you have issues with this that I don't understand.

I never meant for this to be so drawn out, so I'm now done with this particular issue, for now anyway.

Maybe you could link me up; I missed your theory on how the possibility of Lee being Caylee's father factored into the commission of the crimes.

I have no desire to censor anyone; merely putting forth my opinion that making her a product of incest does disparage her genesis and is being put forth to further disparage Casey.

Didn't mean for my opinion to become your cause celebre. The only issue that I have is that I should be able to state my opinion that at this point, Caylee's paternity isn't any more valuable than a lot of the other trash talk that I've read. I have no personal issues with any facet of this case; just philosophizing. And not looking for any validation here, so no need for us to agree.

[Brainstorm]

Makes total sense. We have the benefit of physical and emotional distance.

One thing that was very interesting on NG tonight was that Leonard posed to Nancy that G&C are saying one thing publicly and then being perfectly candid (and realistic) with law enforcement. That thought was appalling to me in light of the fact that they are taking hard earned money from people who are still willing to donate to their charity. It was also suggested that they might channel those funds to Casey's defense.

Nothing about this case makes sane logical sense to me. Nothing.
Ohhh did that part P me off !!!! George had said,to one of his friends,that he was tired of living with all the lies,iirc.(according to LP).SOoooooo, why are they saying something entirely different in public? FOR THE MONEY !!!!! this is generating,imo.

With Casey, anything is possible...

But I really don't think she had planned on killing Caylee. The idea that she may have used chloroform or xanax as a 'babysitter'; or that she had Caylee 'nap' in the trunk; or her lies about getting the house and the possibility of some sinister plan for her parents; or that she was checking lost children sites for homework in staging a kidnapping...I can see how those may have been plans, or ideas for her.

I just don't think that if she had planned on killing Caylee, her plan wouldn't have included getting rid of a body. It would appear that she panicked after the fact, and that makes me believe that she didn't intend to kill Caylee.
You may be right, BUT was she stupid or what, driving around with(I hate to even type this)a dead body in the trunk.
IMO then, there needs to be some MORE charges heaped on her,for cruelty,after the fact.OMG it is too much to think and impossible to figure what she was thinking/trying to do!!!!

[beachbum]

Ohhh did that part P me off !!!! George had said,to one of his friends,that he was tired of living with all the lies,iirc.(according to LP).SOoooooo, why are they saying something entirely different in public? FOR THE MONEY !!!!! this is generating,imo.


You may be right, BUT was she stupid or what, driving around with(I hate to even type this)a dead body in the trunk.
IMO then, there needs to be some MORE charges heaped on her,for cruelty,after the fact.OMG it is too much to think and impossible to figure what she was thinking/trying to do!!!!

I was watching NG last night and saw they had possibly that she drove around 11 days with the body in the car-but I didnt hear why they had come to that decision. Anyone able to clear me up on this?

[lorettalockhorn]

Things I'm curious about:

Why is law enforcement releasing so much information? Where (within a reasonable distance) will The State find a jury? Isn't it possible that since the grand jury was already impaneled and there was no voir dire about this case, that the jury had knowledge and simply wanted to move the case along, rather than specifically relying on the witness testimonies?

Why hasn't the defense asked for a gag order?

Is it actually legal for G&C to funnel search monies into a Casey Anthony defense fund? Anyone know anything about this charity (or whatever it's called)?

Is it really possible that G&C are playing both ends against the middle by supporting Casey in public, but helping law enforcement AND wanting out of this lie (George)? How wrong is that for them to dupe an empathetic public?

Anyone else confuzzled?

[lorettalockhorn]

Ohhh did that part P me off !!!! George had said,to one of his friends,that he was tired of living with all the lies,iirc.(according to LP).SOoooooo, why are they saying something entirely different in public? FOR THE MONEY !!!!! this is generating,imo.


You may be right, BUT was she stupid or what, driving around with(I hate to even type this)a dead body in the trunk.
IMO then, there needs to be some MORE charges heaped on her,for cruelty,after the fact.OMG it is too much to think and impossible to figure what she was thinking/trying to do!!!!

YES! This charitable search fund seems like a new low.

Doesn't it seen like someone would have noticed the odor and investigated Casey's car during that time?

[lorettalockhorn]

Found this, but no clue what it really means:

http://fic.sunbiz.org/pdf/417002D4.pdf

Found this to explain:

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?mode=View%20Statutes&SubMenu=1&App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=fictitious+name&URL=CH0865/Sec09.HTM

[deputydi]

Maybe you could link me up; I missed your theory on how the possibility of Lee being Caylee's father factored into the commission of the crimes.

I have no desire to censor anyone; merely putting forth my opinion that making her a product of incest does disparage her genesis and is being put forth to further disparage Casey.

Didn't mean for my opinion to become your cause celebre. The only issue that I have is that I should be able to state my opinion that at this point, Caylee's paternity isn't any more valuable than a lot of the other trash talk that I've read. I have no personal issues with any facet of this case; just philosophizing. And not looking for any validation here, so no need for us to agree.
I agree completely with you, loretta. Caylee's father (whomever he may be) has nothing whatsoever to do with this case. Caylee's disappearance (and probable murder) was at the hands of her lying, scumbag mother. The unfounded "theory" that Lee may have fathered this child is repulsive to me and there is NO evidence to my knowledge that points to that. Until some credible evidence presents itself, I wish these posters would lay off their scandalous and probably liabelous "theories".

Until now I have stayed away from discussions about Caylee's parentage. Hope you don't mind that I've jumped in now.

[Gatordog]

I can't remember the date but I think that was when she killed her.

Let's see, I am a male and am married. My wife can get up numerous times during the night and not wake me. If they had been partying up until late, then he very well may have slept through the whole thing.

BTW I think Lee knows something. That is why he is not taking a LDT. The DNA sample may be another concern of his. It could be put in a DNA bank and could come back to haunt him for something he has done in the past. Like father a child with another person. That person may not know who is the father but if DNA tests were done for some reason, he is caught.

I brought this up before and maybe Sara or O2S did find that it happened earlier, maybe in March or May.

[Gatordog]

Heard it One2Snoop and I would give anything to know the truth. Still looking at the pool too. I do not think I can believe 11 days but would not be surprised. It is only a theory but not a bad one......IMO sara

I agree Sara, she might have been dead 11 days but not in the trunk that whole time. She was brought back to the house (if she didn't die in the yard) and then spent a few days hidden in the yard and then she was taken and put into the trunk for maybe one week.

[lorettalockhorn]

I agree completely with you, loretta. Caylee's father (whomever he may be) has nothing whatsoever to do with this case. Caylee's disappearance (and probable murder) was at the hands of her lying, scumbag mother. The unfounded "theory" that Lee may have fathered this child is repulsive to me and there is NO evidence to my knowledge that points to that. Until some credible evidence presents itself, I wish these posters would lay off their scandalous and probably liabelous "theories".

Until now I have stayed away from discussions about Caylee's parentage. Hope you don't mind that I've jumped in now.

dd, if and when we learn who her father is, it may very well be a part of the case. Just don't see it now.

And I'm here to tell you, that having been a caseworker for many years, I've witnessed the abysmal stigma attached to children of incest in the real world. (Families and schools being are two of the worst offenders in exercising disservice.)

[Gatordog]

thanks deputydi I have tried everything I could. I know she is lost to me. I understand many people are angry at C and G but you know they raised Caylee as their own. How do you accept the daughter you love hurt the granddaughter you love? I imagine we are talking years of counseling and drugs not to mention if the marriage will last. Even if Cindy was that controlling and George let her I cannot blame them at all this time. If it is making the pain easier for them they obviously need to do denial at this time. .........IMO sara

All true facts regarding G&C but there are other things to consider as well.

1. Do they refuse to admit Casey killed Caylee because of the guilt they feel because they ignored all the warning signs?
2. Knowing that Casey was a sociopath a year ago, what was their responsibility towards Caylee? Did they sacrifice one to help the other, especially when there were signs that things were getting worse?
3. There have been many instances where a grown child has done something terrible and the parents still love that child but turn them into the police to face the consequences. If Casey had faced consequences as a child and teenage years, she might not have turned into the selfish horror that she is now.

[Gatordog]

I was just trying to work in the chloroform recipes into a theory and I wondered if Casey may have planned to knock Casey out with it then put her in the pool to drown. Maybe she panicked when Caylee died from the chloroform before she got her in the pool. Casey put her in the pool and started calling to get the parents to come home to the drowned Caylee but realised belatedly that there would be no water in Caylee's lungs and realised she had to change her plan. More panick now; the pings indicate that she drove near the hospital but she obviously never went in. Doesn't know what to do and now has a dead body in the trunk.
Is it too out there or does it sound feasible? I'd like some other perspectives on this.

Hi Sharlock,

Just some logistics regarding driving near the hospital. It's on the main road not far from her house. The hospital is between Chickasaw Trail and Goldenrod Road and Lake Underhill. You have to drive up Chickasaw Trail when you leave the Anthony's house. It's maybe 1.5 miles and she would have to pass it to go to the boyfriend's apartment or Target.

[joekuhl79]

Found this, but no clue what it really means:

http://fic.sunbiz.org/pdf/417002D4.pdf

Found this to explain:

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?mode=View%20Statutes&SubMenu=1&App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=fictitious+name&URL=CH0865/Sec09.HTM

It means Cindy is setting up a 'foundation' and she'll be opening a bank account in that name (Caylee Marie Anthony Foundation). She probably expects people to donate money to it, and she'll probably be the administrator.

[lorettalockhorn]

Only thing i can come up with as to why there is not yet a gag order imposed may simly due to the fact the defense wants their comments out there. Especially since Caylee has not been found (yet). MOO:rose:

You're probably right, and I think NMurphy nailed it. That's all well and good as long as they aren't slandering others in the process.

[lorettalockhorn]

It means Cindy is setting up a 'foundation' and she'll be opening a bank account in that name (Caylee Marie Anthony Foundation). She probably expects people to donate money to it, and she'll probably be the administrator.

Thanks Joe! I glommed onto that by reading the statute.

[Gatordog]

Maybe you could link me up; I missed your theory on how the possibility of Lee being Caylee's father factored into the commission of the crimes.

I have no desire to censor anyone; merely putting forth my opinion that making her a product of incest does disparage her genesis and is being put forth to further disparage Casey.

Didn't mean for my opinion to become your cause celebre. The only issue that I have is that I should be able to state my opinion that at this point, Caylee's paternity isn't any more valuable than a lot of the other trash talk that I've read. I have no personal issues with any facet of this case; just philosophizing. And not looking for any validation here, so no need for us to agree.


I hate to stick my nose where it doesn't belong but I'm known for that anyway. :rolleyes:

I believe the point or factor might be to explain why Lee refused to take a polygraph test and give DNA samples. It might not have anything to do with the initial crime, but it could be the reason for the lack of cooperation once tests got into the picture.

I think trash talk doesn't describe anyone's opinion on this forum. Now if you want to read trash talk, I can point you to other blogs about this topic. This is a very civilized, honest and clear forum with many points of view on a very disturbing topic.

[applesandorange]

Good day everyone:seeya: I thought I heard somewhere that new evidence is going to be released to the public soon. Did anyone else hear that? It would be more eveidence released from the FBI about Casey's computer. I wonder what else could be on there.

I have gone back and read everything that you guys have been posting. You are all making some very good points and bringing out some good theories. There is only one thing I would like to add to the whole paternity issue. That is when LP said on NG that Caylee's father was Lee he also said he thought that because of something to do with the DNA of the hair. I don't remember what exactly he said and I know NG cut him off before he could finish. Now to me it doesn't matter who Caylee's father is. The only way it could have anything to do with the case would be IF Lee was the father. This could give him reason to help Casey out in covering up the death. This could mean that MAYBE it was Lee who was pretending to fish when that guy saw Casey putting the shovel into the trunk. That is all based on speculation. People have also noticed the resemblance between Caylee and J.P Chat or whatever his name was. It was said in I believe Amy's interview that J.P. dedpised Casey. I wonder if it's because she used him in the past? Who knows. So anyway while Caylee's paternity has nothing to do with what has sadly happened to her it COULD have something to do with Casey having help to cover it up. JMO.

[Gatordog]

I was watching NG last night and saw they had possibly that she drove around 11 days with the body in the car-but I didnt hear why they had come to that decision. Anyone able to clear me up on this?

My only conclusion is that Caylee was last seen on June 16. On June 27 she states she got rid of the stink in the car and it was left at the Amscott on that day.

[applesandorange]

Hi Sharlock,

Just some logistics regarding driving near the hospital. It's on the main road not far from her house. The hospital is between Chickasaw Trail and Goldenrod Road and Lake Underhill. You have to drive up Chickasaw Trail when you leave the Anthony's house. It's maybe 1.5 miles and she would have to pass it to go to the boyfriend's apartment or Target.


Could you imagine driving past the hospital knowing your daughter is dead in your trunk? That's awful.

OT but did anyone else see where Casey's psych report was presented and that is the reason why there will be no more bond hearings? I bet the defensive is going for insanity JMO.

[applesandorange]

My only conclusion is that Caylee was last seen on June 16. On June 27 she states she got rid of the stink in the car and it was left at the Amscott on that day.


I do believe that there were pit stops made where Caylee was removed from the trunk. I couldn't believe Kobe on NG last night saying that maybe the cadavor dogs hit on a friend meaning maybe they hit on dead pet dog remains who had been buried. Now correct me if I'm wrong but aren't those dogs trained to ONLY hit on human remains? Also how would they explain the hit on the trunk. I am really starting to dislike Kobe.

[lorettalockhorn]

I hate to stick my nose where it doesn't belong but I'm known for that anyway. :rolleyes:

I believe the point or factor might be to explain why Lee refused to take a polygraph test and give DNA samples. It might not have anything to do with the initial crime, but it could be the reason for the lack of cooperation once tests got into the picture.

I think trash talk doesn't describe anyone's opinion on this forum. Now if you want to read trash talk, I can point you to other blogs about this topic. This is a very civilized, honest and clear forum with many points of view on a very disturbing topic.

Okay, maybe the mods have deleted the posts that I refer to as trash talk. Probably missed it along with how exactly the possibility of Lee being Caylee's father ties in any more than any other of Casey's lovers/semen donors do.

Not sure how or why you would construe commenting on a topic on a public forum on the internet as sticking your nose in. We're all more than entitled to our opinions.

Aren't we?

There are myriad reasons why Lee would not want to submit to DNA testing. I'm mostly interested in when the warrant expires and whether or not the judge will jail him for contempt and compel the test.

[applesandorange]

Hi apples-yes i read on the no discussion thread that some computer evidence would soon be released. :rose:


Thanks. I think we all need new things to talk about :rose:

[lorettalockhorn]

Good day everyone:seeya: I thought I heard somewhere that new evidence is going to be released to the public soon. Did anyone else hear that? It would be more eveidence released from the FBI about Casey's computer. I wonder what else could be on there.

I have gone back and read everything that you guys have been posting. You are all making some very good points and bringing out some good theories. There is only one thing I would like to add to the whole paternity issue. That is when LP said on NG that Caylee's father was Lee he also said he thought that because of something to do with the DNA of the hair. I don't remember what exactly he said and I know NG cut him off before he could finish. Now to me it doesn't matter who Caylee's father is. The only way it could have anything to do with the case would be IF Lee was the father. This could give him reason to help Casey out in covering up the death. This could mean that MAYBE it was Lee who was pretending to fish when that guy saw Casey putting the shovel into the trunk. That is all based on speculation. People have also noticed the resemblance between Caylee and J.P Chat or whatever his name was. It was said in I believe Amy's interview that J.P. dedpised Casey. I wonder if it's because she used him in the past? Who knows. So anyway while Caylee's paternity has nothing to do with what has sadly happened to her it COULD have something to do with Casey having help to cover it up. JMO.

This whole sighting just amazes me. Could the woman in the big red hat and sunglasses have been any more noticeable? Could a well dressed man on a cellphone pretending to fish have been any more noticeable? They couldn't have come up with better disguises? The witness could tell that the woman resembled Casey even though her face was surely obscured. But didn't describe the man who apparently wasn't wearing a big hat and sunglasses? (Or maybe he did and we just don't have an ID on him yet.)

[Gatordog]

Could you imagine driving past the hospital knowing your daughter is dead in your trunk? That's awful.

OT but did anyone else see where Casey's psych report was presented and that is the reason why there will be no more bond hearings? I bet the defensive is going for insanity JMO.

Hi A&O

I don't think they have or will release the psych reports.

There is no bond in Florida on Capital Murder.

[applesandorange]

This whole sighting just amazes me. Could the woman in the big red hat and sunglasses have been any more noticeable? Could a well dressed man on a cellphone pretending to fish have been any more noticeable? They couldn't have come up with better disguises? The witness could tell that the woman resembled Casey even though her face was surely obscured. But didn't describe the man who apparently wasn't wearing a big hat and sunglasses? (Or maybe he did and we just don't have an ID on him yet.)


Yes I agree. We don't know how credible the sighting was. I guess a lot of things we will just have to wait on. I hope when TM and Eqqusearch comes back in November they find Caylee's body. Atleast then this little girl will be in peace.

[applesandorange]

Hi A&O

I don't think they have or will release the psych reports.

There is no bond in Florida on Capital Murder.


I'm not sure if it was for a bond hearng or a parole hearing or what but I know I read it somewhere that her psych reports are sealed to the public but they were shown to whoever decides about these hearings and that is the reason why Casey will not have this kind of hearing in the future. I will try to find it.

[Gatordog]

Not sure i agree with ya on the insanity defense. It is a very tough one to prove. In my opinion there is just too much pointing to pre-meditated. Not clear on the effect her psych report would have on bond hearings. It's has always been my understanding that Murder 1 constitutes no bond. MOO:rose:

I don't think they have any grounds for insanity. I think I have heard the professionals say the being a sociopath isn't a mental disease and doesn't qualify as insanity.

[Gatordog]

Yes I agree. We don't know how credible the sighting was. I guess a lot of things we will just have to wait on. I hope when TM and Eqqusearch comes back in November they find Caylee's body. Atleast then this little girl will be in peace.

What bothers me about this sighting was that the car was left on the road. There are many dirt roads or paths which you could drive your car through or into so that it wouldn't be visible from the road.

[Gatordog]

I'm not sure if it was for a bond hearng or a parole hearing or what but I know I read it somewhere that her psych reports are sealed to the public but they were shown to whoever decides about these hearings and that is the reason why Casey will not have this kind of hearing in the future. I will try to find it.

It's been reported that Florida law states there is no bond or bail on capital murder cases. I don't think it has anything to do with the reports or she wouldn't have been released on prior hearings.

[Gatordog]

Bad news here weather-wise. :( We're going to get about 2 inches of rain between tonight and tomorrow night. This won't help the posibility of the search taking place 11/8.

[applesandorange]

It's been reported that Florida law states there is no bond or bail on capital murder cases. I don't think it has anything to do with the reports or she wouldn't have been released on prior hearings.


I don't know. Maybe I misread something. Please forgive me. I cannot find it anywhere and I promised my 3 year old we would bake cookies so until I find it let's just say I dreamed it lol. Honestly I thought that's what I read but with being how rushed I've been I could have misread something.

[jas72]

Maybe he wants to be the new Dog.


I posted on another thread about his always wearing that black hat of his while indoors. It just strikes me as a bit much. "Ooooh! Look at me. I'm the big, bad bounty hunter. I think I'm from the old west. I'm Josh Randall."(Steve McQueen's role on Wanted Dead or Alive). I mean, come on. You're inside a studio somewhere. You don't need to wear a hat. His 15 minutes are up. His relationship with the Anthony family is now weeks old. He has nothing new to say. I don't think he adds anything new to the case.

[deputydi]

Yes i like to reserve judgement on these folks who come crawling out of the woodwork. We all know the book deals that come from these types of cases. Not saying he is lying or that he is truthful at this point. Just sitting on the fence on this one as it will come out eventually.:rose:
I'm sittin' on the fence with you on this part. I'm waiting for more to come out about the alleged sighting. Sometimes people want so desperately to help or interject themselves into a high profile case like this one that they recall events that never happened. I don't know just yet what to think of the scrap metal guy.

[deputydi]

I don't think they have any grounds for insanity. I think I have heard the professionals say the being a sociopath isn't a mental disease and doesn't qualify as insanity.
You are absolutely right. Casey definitely has mental issues, but she doesn't meet the legal standard for insanity. This chick is going to trial unless she comes clean and pleads guilty.

Another thing about the insanity defense -- she would have to admit she murdered Caylee to plead insanity. IMO she's not about to do that in this lifetime.

[lorettalockhorn]

I posted on another thread about his always wearing that black hat of his while indoors. It just strikes me as a bit much. "Ooooh! Look at me. I'm the big, bad bounty hunter. I think I'm from the old west. I'm Josh Randall."(Steve McQueen's role on Wanted Dead or Alive). I mean, come on. You're inside a studio somewhere. You don't need to wear a hat. His 15 minutes are up. His relationship with the Anthony family is now weeks old. He has nothing new to say. I don't think he adds anything new to the case.

YEA! New topic of disgust! My hubby is a prof and his students wear hats in the classroom; he gave up years ago on asking them to remove them. My brother took some of his graduate students on a tour of European cathedrals and they wore hats inside the church for crying out loud!

Is nothing sacred? :hat: (Because it's goofy, and I'm referencing a very old National Lampoon schtick. I think it was National Lampoon. That was hella long time ago.)

[lorettalockhorn]

You are absolutely right. Casey definitely has mental issues, but she doesn't meet the legal standard for insanity. This chick is going to trial unless she comes clean and pleads guilty.

Another thing about the insanity defense -- she would have to admit she murdered Caylee to plead insanity. IMO she's not about to do that in this lifetime.

Right. You can't plead NOT guilty by reason of insanity (as I understand it). Maybe ace attorney Baez or his spokesbuffoon will come up with a precedent for it though.

[deacon]

I'm not sure if it was for a bond hearng or a parole hearing or what but I know I read it somewhere that her psych reports are sealed to the public but they were shown to whoever decides about these hearings and that is the reason why Casey will not have this kind of hearing in the future. I will try to find it.

Psych reports would fall under the new HIPPA regulations. Those make it illegal to release such reports without the prior consent of the patient.

[deputydi]

They wanted DNA from George, Cindy and Lee because of the DNA of the hair that was in the trunk. I believe it's inconclusive as to specifically being Caley's. It has mitocondrial (sp) DNA which means that Cindy, Casey and Lee also have that same DNA and they need to rule them out. I guess they asked for George's just to say they ruled out his posibility also.
The problem with this answer is they know the hair came from a deceased donor. Cindy, Casey and Lee are very much alive. I am more curious about why LE wants the sample from Lee. I can't understand what they think it will tell them -- unless, of course, they have evidence we don't know about (which I'm sure they do).

Many, many people are wary of taking a lie detector test even if they are 100% innocent of any wrongdoing. The fact that the Anthonys won't take one doesn't bother me a whole lot. It might answer a few questions for us and LE, but it's not admissable at trial. In my mind, their refusal is just another example of their unwillingness to cooperate.

[One2Snoop]

I can't remember the date but I think that was when she killed her.

Let's see, I am a male and am married. My wife can get up numerous times during the night and not wake me. If they had been partying up until late, then he very well may have slept through the whole thing.

BTW I think Lee knows something. That is why he is not taking a LDT. The DNA sample may be another concern of his. It could be put in a DNA bank and could come back to haunt him for something he has done in the past. Like father a child with another person. That person may not know who is the father but if DNA tests were done for some reason, he is caught.

I brought this up before and maybe Sara or O2S did find that it happened earlier, maybe in March or May.

Sorry I missed your post deacon but Gator is correct - I believe it was in the May time frame - I'm not even sure Casey knew Tony in March.

ETA and I stand corrected - it must have been early June when then incident occured. This is from the Who's Who info we have posted here...

Lazaro, Anthony (Tony) – Casey’s boyfriend; originally from New Jersey. Met Casey online (Facebook). Claims he first heard of Caylee’s disappearance by deputies coming to his house early morning July 16. He met Casey in May and has been dating her since June. Has never met Zenaida and does not know where she lives. He had contacted Amy Huizenga and had her contact LE. Casey has lived with him since June 9, 2008, and had mentioned several times that Caylee was with the nanny at Disney, Universal Studios, or the beach. snip

ETA again - I think the June 9th date is incorrect - I'll do some checking around. The Who's Who info came from another site.

[applesandorange]

No worries been there done that. I would be happy take a batch of those off your hands-choc. chip pleeeeeez ;)


You are in luck that's what we made. Sending a batch for you to download now ;)

[odette]

I brought this up before and maybe Sara or O2S did find that it happened earlier, maybe in March or May.

Is this the night in question? Hope this helps ...

http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showpost.php?p=9127039&postcount=2485

http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showpost.php?p=9127108&postcount=2496

[Gatordog]

I don't know. Maybe I misread something. Please forgive me. I cannot find it anywhere and I promised my 3 year old we would bake cookies so until I find it let's just say I dreamed it lol. Honestly I thought that's what I read but with being how rushed I've been I could have misread something.

Ooh cookies - I can just smell them. I bet they taste great. Three year old's make the best cookies. They don't look great, but sure do taste good. :)

[One2Snoop]

Is this the night in question? Hope this helps ...

http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showpost.php?p=9127039&postcount=2485

http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showpost.php?p=9127108&postcount=2496

That would be it Odette - thanks! :seeya: So if he didn't start dating Casey until the first part of June, (according to the who's who info) the sleepover and Caylee disappearing in the middle of night had to happen before June 16th. George recalls seeing Casey and Caylee leaving the house together on June 16th and that was the last time anyone saw Caylee.

[applesandorange]

Ooh cookies - I can just smell them. I bet they taste great. Three year old's make the best cookies. They don't look great, but sure do taste good. :)


It was funny. He helped me put all the ingredients into the mixing bowl. He even cracked the eggs. Then he wanted to eat the batter. I gave him the beater while I put the dough on the cookie sheets. After I was finished and the cookies were in the oven he asked me why he couldn't help put the dough on the sheets. I told him it was because he was busy licking the beater. He said "well, I wanted to help cuz that's the fun part." I told him as soon as the cookies that were in the oven were done he could help with the next batch. He said he wanted to eat the cookie dough out of the mixing bowl. I told him no, it's for the next batch of cookies and I thought he wanted to help me put them on the cookie sheet. He said no I don't want to help with that anymore I want to eat the dough. I finally persuaded him to sit and watch Little Bill while I finsihed up the cookies. Then I gave him the bowl and spoon to lick. So anyway the cookies don't look too bad cause I wound up putting them on the sheet myself lol. Sending you a batch to download too. ;)

[Gatordog]

The problem with this answer is they know the hair came from a deceased donor. Cindy, Casey and Lee are very much alive. I am more curious about why LE wants the sample from Lee. I can't understand what they think it will tell them -- unless, of course, they have evidence we don't know about (which I'm sure they do).

Many, many people are wary of taking a lie detector test even if they are 100% innocent of any wrongdoing. The fact that the Anthonys won't take one doesn't bother me a whole lot. It might answer a few questions for us and LE, but it's not admissable at trial. In my mind, their refusal is just another example of their unwillingness to cooperate.

I think LE just wants to cover all bases in cross examination. They need to prove the hair was Caylee's. The band theory is just that for now - a theory. If they can definitely say the hair was Caylee's and it came from a dead person. That's that. But if the defense challenges the band theory and says you don't even know for sure that it is Caylee's, then the evidence is questionable. For instance, what if the defense says that one day Casey was putting a stroller in the trunk of the car and her hair got stuck on a wheel and was yanked out of her head. If some small amount of scalp tissue came off, well then that tissue would decompose and maybe the band would form. JMO.

Gator

[applesandorange]

That would be it Odette - thanks! :seeya: So if he didn't start dating Casey until the first part of June, (according to the who's who info) the sleepover and Caylee disappearing in the middle of night had to happen before June 16th. George recalls seeing Casey and Caylee leaving the house together on June 16th and that was the last time anyone saw Caylee.


Yes and Cindy has stated she doesn't recall ever asking Casey to bring Caylee home in the middle of the night or Caylee being brought home in the middle of the night. This makes me think maybe this is when Casey first started chloroforming Caylee to make her sleep in the trunk while mommy had play time with her boyfriend.

[applesandorange]

I think LE just wants to cover all bases in cross examination. They need to prove the hair was Caylee's. The band theory is just that for now - a theory. If they can definitely say the hair was Caylee's and it came from a dead person. That's that. But if the defense challenges the band theory and says you don't even know for sure that it is Caylee's, then the evidence is questionable. For instance, what if the defense says that one day Casey was putting a stroller in the trunk of the car and her hair got stuck on a wheel and was yanked out of her head. If some small amount of scalp tissue came off, well then that tissue would decompose and maybe the band would form. JMO.

Gator


I think you are right on with this Gator. They want proof without a reasonable doubt.

[One2Snoop]

CASEY'S ATTORNEY TO START QUESTIONING WITNESSES

Casey Anthony's defense attorney is going to start questioning his first prosecution witnesses in the case next Thursday. Among those being questioned is an employee at the Amscot on Goldenrod and Highway 50 where Casey abandoned her car in late June, employees from Johnson's Wrecker Service, the company that towed the car from the Amscot, and Casey's ex-boyfriend Tony Lazzaro.

What do they all have in common? They all had access to Casey's car.

http://www.wftv.com/news/17781526/detail.html

And where do you all think he's trying to go with this? :rolleyes:

[joekuhl79]

CASEY'S ATTORNEY TO START QUESTIONING WITNESSES

Casey Anthony's defense attorney is going to start questioning his first prosecution witnesses in the case next Thursday. Among those being questioned is an employee at the Amscot on Goldenrod and Highway 50 where Casey abandoned her car in late June, employees from Johnson's Wrecker Service, the company that towed the car from the Amscot, and Casey's ex-boyfriend Tony Lazzaro.

What do they all have in common? They all had access to Casey's car.

http://www.wftv.com/news/17781526/detail.html

And where do you all think he's trying to go with this? :rolleyes:

He's grasping! This guy is a hack.

How would he figure the Amscot manager had access to Caseys car?!

The towing company has access to thousands of cars every year! He thinks they collect bodies to put in them? What are the odds of that? The tow company kills a child and then ends up putting her body in the mothers car that they just happened to tow?

I don't mean to make light of the situation, but what an idiot!

Here's the interview:

Baez: Did you put a body in the trunk of a white Pontiac Sunfire?
Amscot manager: No.
Baez: Are you sure?
Amscot manager: Yes.
Baez: Yes, you put a body in the trunk?
Amscot manager: No.
Baez: You're positive?
Amscot manager: Yes.
Baez: You're positive that you put a body in the trunk?
Amscot manager: I'm positive I did NOT put a body in the trunk.
Baez: Okay, we're done.

[minga]

I think LE just wants to cover all bases in cross examination. They need to prove the hair was Caylee's. The band theory is just that for now - a theory. If they can definitely say the hair was Caylee's and it came from a dead person. That's that. But if the defense challenges the band theory and says you don't even know for sure that it is Caylee's, then the evidence is questionable. For instance, what if the defense says that one day Casey was putting a stroller in the trunk of the car and her hair got stuck on a wheel and was yanked out of her head. If some small amount of scalp tissue came off, well then that tissue would decompose and maybe the band would form. JMO.

Gator


Gator, I don't know enough about forensics and I'm probably wrong, but I was under the assumption that the death band would only appear on the hair shaft if it came from a dead body and not if it came or was pulled from a live body.

But as I said, I don't really know.

[applesandorange]

CASEY'S ATTORNEY TO START QUESTIONING WITNESSES

Casey Anthony's defense attorney is going to start questioning his first prosecution witnesses in the case next Thursday. Among those being questioned is an employee at the Amscot on Goldenrod and Highway 50 where Casey abandoned her car in late June, employees from Johnson's Wrecker Service, the company that towed the car from the Amscot, and Casey's ex-boyfriend Tony Lazzaro.

What do they all have in common? They all had access to Casey's car.

http://www.wftv.com/news/17781526/detail.html

And where do you all think he's trying to go with this? :rolleyes:


I think he's trying to prove there wasn't an odor when it was towed.

[deputydi]

Gator, I don't know enough about forensics and I'm probably wrong, but I was under the assumption that the death band would only appear on the hair shaft if it came from a dead body and not if it came or was pulled from a live body.

But as I said, I don't really know.
You are correct. If Baez tries to use this "theory", he will be laughed out of court.

[One2Snoop]

He's grasping! This guy is a hack.

How would he figure the Amscot manager had access to Caseys car?!

The towing company has access to thousands of cars every year! He thinks they collect bodies to put in them? What are the odds of that? The tow company kills a child and then ends up putting her body in the mothers car that they just happened to tow?

I don't mean to make light of the situation, but what an idiot!

Here's the interview:

Baez: Did you put a body in the trunk of a white Pontiac Sunfire?
Amscot manager: No.
Baez: Are you sure?
Amscot manager: Yes.
Baez: Yes, you put a body in the trunk?
Amscot manager: No.
Baez: You're positive?
Amscot manager: Yes.
Baez: You're positive that you put a body in the trunk?
Amscot manager: I'm positive I did NOT put a body in the trunk.
Baez: Okay, we're done.

LOL Joe ~ I think you've got that pegged just about right. :tongue:

[SaraSidle]

Don't stress Minga, you aren't going to start a war by expressing your thoughts. I really don't think anyone is trying to censor you or anyone else though, just expressing our thoughts too. You are free to disagree with them; in fact that is why I have always liked this board, people can disagree and it doesn't lead into a dog fight. 9 times out of 10 you just see people rushing to express themselves more clearly so as not to aggravate the situation. We are all entitled to our opinions.:seeya:

I agree sharlock. Minga I am always interested in your posts and would hate to see you stop. Personally I really think a lot things we hear are conjecture so I am not real sure what to believe. I am sure LE has good evidence and that is what I am waiting to hear........IM

[SaraSidle]

With Casey, anything is possible...

But I really don't think she had planned on killing Caylee. The idea that she may have used chloroform or xanax as a 'babysitter'; or that she had Caylee 'nap' in the trunk; or her lies about getting the house and the possibility of some sinister plan for her parents; or that she was checking lost children sites for homework in staging a kidnapping...I can see how those may have been plans, or ideas for her.

I just don't think that if she had planned on killing Caylee, her plan wouldn't have included getting rid of a body. It would appear that she panicked after the fact, and that makes me believe that she didn't intend to kill Caylee.

I do agree with that Joe but she should become public about what she knows. She is not the only one who "loved Caylee" IMO

[SaraSidle]

I agree Sara, she might have been dead 11 days but not in the trunk that whole time. She was brought back to the house (if she didn't die in the yard) and then spent a few days hidden in the yard and then she was taken and put into the trunk for maybe one week.

that sounds like a very good scenario. I am still trying to imagine in my mind this mother carrying around her deceased baby for 10 or whatever days.I do not doubt it just cannot picture it I am sick thinking about it. IMO Sara

[applesandorange]

that sounds like a very good scenario. I am still trying to imagine in my mind this mother carrying around her deceased baby for 10 or whatever days.I do not doubt it just cannot picture it I am sick thinking about it. IMO Sara


Yeah and on top of it smiling and laughing and partying. Telling everyone that the baby is having a great time at Disney or the beach. All the while knowing she lie dead in her car trunk.

[lorettalockhorn]

Gator, I don't know enough about forensics and I'm probably wrong, but I was under the assumption that the death band would only appear on the hair shaft if it came from a dead body and not if it came or was pulled from a live body.

But as I said, I don't really know.

That's what I thought too from the information posted in the articles forum. :confused:

[lorettalockhorn]

He's grasping! This guy is a hack.

How would he figure the Amscot manager had access to Caseys car?!

The towing company has access to thousands of cars every year! He thinks they collect bodies to put in them? What are the odds of that? The tow company kills a child and then ends up putting her body in the mothers car that they just happened to tow?

I don't mean to make light of the situation, but what an idiot!

Here's the interview:

Baez: Did you put a body in the trunk of a white Pontiac Sunfire?
Amscot manager: No.
Baez: Are you sure?
Amscot manager: Yes.
Baez: Yes, you put a body in the trunk?
Amscot manager: No.
Baez: You're positive?
Amscot manager: Yes.
Baez: You're positive that you put a body in the trunk?
Amscot manager: I'm positive I did NOT put a body in the trunk.
Baez: Okay, we're done.

It's like Barney Fife meets Abbott and Costello!

[SaraSidle]

All true facts regarding G&C but there are other things to consider as well.

1. Do they refuse to admit Casey killed Caylee because of the guilt they feel because they ignored all the warning signs?
2. Knowing that Casey was a sociopath a year ago, what was their responsibility towards Caylee? Did they sacrifice one to help the other, especially when there were signs that things were getting worse?
3. There have been many instances where a grown child has done something terrible and the parents still love that child but turn them into the police to face the consequences. If Casey had faced consequences as a child and teenage years, she might not have turned into the selfish horror that she is now.
Gatordog I know you do not want to hear this but the mind and heart are always going to be black and white.
1&2 First of all I cannot fathom was is going in in the parent's minds at this time. the confusion and shock and acceptance must be so very strong. I do actually believe they were trying to help her instead of enable her. Cindy went to a therpist so we know she was seeking help. Casey was not mentally ill and it would have been quite the battle for Cindy to take Custody but she tried. She realized Casey had problems but I still do not know how deep she thinks those problems were.
3 I know there have been plenty of times that family members have turned someone in for one reason or another and it is very very hard to do. I had to move out of an apt I was staying at with my unemployed brother. Lease was up. After weeks of talking I just told him I would call LE if he did not leave. He left to stay with friends and I have felt guilty about it every since.
whew. did not mean to be so winded.......IMO sara

[SaraSidle]

Only thing i can come up with as to why there is not yet a gag order imposed may simly due to the fact the defense wants their comments out there. Especially since Caylee has not been found (yet). MOO:rose:

Or as Lorreta said a change of venue??????????:shrug:

[SaraSidle]

I was just trying to work in the chloroform recipes into a theory and I wondered if Casey may have planned to knock Casey out with it then put her in the pool to drown. Maybe she panicked when Caylee died from the chloroform before she got her in the pool. Casey put her in the pool and started calling to get the parents to come home to the drowned Caylee but realised belatedly that there would be no water in Caylee's lungs and realised she had to change her plan. More panick now; the pings indicate that she drove near the hospital but she obviously never went in. Doesn't know what to do and now has a dead body in the trunk.
Is it too out there or does it sound feasible? I'd like some other perspectives on this.

I think it was a panic when she could not get Mom and Dad on the phone. I feel like she was wandering not knowing what to do. I am sure she has kept a lot of things to herself in life to stay out of trouble. lies,stealing whatever. I would not want Cindy or George mad at me every.......IMO

[SaraSidle]

In all honesty i would luv to have a peek at her psych report.:beer:

I do not know beem. I listen to the tapes played on NG and all that bs give me a headacheeeee.........IMO sara

[SaraSidle]

What bothers me about this sighting was that the car was left on the road. There are many dirt roads or paths which you could drive your car through or into so that it wouldn't be visible from the road.

I thought about that Gator when you look at all the google maps there are plenty of roads to go in one

[SaraSidle]

What bothers me about this sighting was that the car was left on the road. There are many dirt roads or paths which you could drive your car through or into so that it wouldn't be visible from the road.

I thought about that Gator when you look at all the google maps there are plenty of roads to go in one IMO Sara

[joekuhl79]

I do agree with that Joe but she should become public about what she knows. She is not the only one who "loved Caylee" IMO

ITA 100% Don't think that I'm defending her in any way, shape, or form...

[One2Snoop]

It looks like Casey's defense attorney might try to get all the evidence in the car thrown out. (10/23/08)

http://www.wftv.com/video/17790182/index.html

[SaraSidle]

It looks like Casey's defense attorney might try to get all the evidence in the car thrown out. (10/23/08)

http://www.wftv.com/video/17790182/index.html

It cannot happen. just blowing smoke to me IMO sara

[beachbum]

It cannot happen. just blowing smoke to me IMO sara

Her attys will have to spin something cause all the evidence points to her.
jmo

[lorettalockhorn]

Good grief, there are plenty of crimes and much crime scene evidence that is found long after the commission of the actual crime. Surely the wrecker company keeps logs, and hopefully law enforcement keeps copious track of chain of evidence. At any rate, the defense should be expected to throw everything at the wall to see what sticks, and The State will no doubt present all kinds of case law to support their case.

Kinda ironic that the Anthonys have publicly disputed the forensic findings, yet the defense doesn't want the jury to hear it.

[mu8shark]

I don't think they have any grounds for insanity. I think I have heard the professionals say the being a sociopath isn't a mental disease and doesn't qualify as insanity. Right you are on that! Even if it is shown she has a mental disease of some kind that will not lead to an automatic insanity defense. a little Less than 1 per cent of defendants who use the insanity defense are successful with that defense. I mean, the McNaugton rule says that legal insanity is not knowing right from wrong. Her lies are going to mess that up, why lie and scheme and mislead if you don't see anything wrong with gassing your kid in the trunk? They might go there but I see them more trying to get the trunk evidence thrown out because they know how damaging that is,.

[Donna]

It's actually easy for me to understand why Lee won't take a lie detector test. If I were in his shoes, I wouldn't either. I can't imagine a more stressful situation for a brother, and if they were that reliable, they would be admissible in court.

I see no evidence that Lee is guilty of anything except having the bad luck to be born into the Adams Family.

I find the speculation that Lee is Caylee's father to be distasteful, especially since there has been no evidence presented that this is true, and god knows that there has been massive amounts of evidence presented.

It's ironic that while Cindy & George are being hammered for constantly being out there, running their mouths, Lee is being hammered for keeping his mouth shut.

He is the one Anthony I truly feel sorry for.

Donna

[mu8shark]

It's like Barney Fife meets Abbott and Costello! This stupid theory about how someone else put a body in the trunk is just idiotic. If I hear that blurb where CIndy says there was no smell until the car was towed , I will barf. Her daughter's text messages to Amy about the smell in the car when Casey was driving it will totally wreck that theory. Remember, the two dead squirrels story she texted and then she said I got rid of the smell. That was not after the car was towed obviously and Cindy knows this. I guess the nice way of saying it , is they are in denial. I think they are lying and misleading people on purpose. First I get to hear George say Casey was a good daughter, Really, stealing from grandparents and her parents and trying to unload her daughter on her mother all the time and lying all the time. Cindy supposedly told someone Casey was a freeloader who could not support her daughter and a sociopath. She also said she used men for money, I am paraphrasing but she told Tony he better have money. Then, we get to here that those photos are before Caylee went missing. Another obvious lie. The photos were date stamped and the photographer said they were after. I can barely tolerate this family. Maybe I should be more empathic but uggh. Too frustrating . Also if they want Baez to get the trunk evidence thrown out, they are not interested in the truth or what really happened to Caylee, they just want Casey off the hook. I hope this does not offend people who are sympathetic to them but in my heart , to me the Anthonys are all about one thing, saving Casey now that Caylee is dead.

[mu8shark]

It cannot happen. just blowing smoke to me IMO sara This sounds good but they are not going to get the car evidence thrown out because it was in the custody of someone other than Casey or the police. They will more than likely let the evidence come in and let the jury decide if the evidence is there due to Casey or some tow yard guy or some mysterious stranger who planted a body that just happened to have Caylee's mitrochrondial dna. The only way that evidence will get thrown out as far as I can see is if say they searched the car without permission or without a search warrant. And I know in the first 400 documents they get a search warrant, fair and square. There are tons of cases where LE find blood in a car and that car may have been driven by three or four different people and parked at someone's work unlocked or whatever and there does not have to be a chain of custody in order for the blood evidence to come in. The question will be up to the jury to decide, how likely is it that somebody else had a motive, means and opportunity to kill Caylee? Or put or plant evidence in that trunk? Did they also steal her phone and text message about the smell and did they steal her comp and look up missing childrens sites and how to make chloroform? I think we all know how likely that is.

[mu8shark]

I can't find the post but someone said Cindy and George took lie detector tests. According to Padilla they were going to and Lee talked them out of it. So I think they did submit to dna tests but did not take lie detector tests. On another subject Dr Koblinsky is starting to look absurd. First we had to hear how cadaver dogs could hit on animal friends. They do not hit on animal decompostion. Can you imagine how useless they would be in an investigation, say looking for a dead body in the wilderness? And this theory that chloroform was accidentally made from cleaning products. I already posted that article but a chemist who said the amount of chloroform it would take to saturate a trunk like LE said it did could not come from cleaning products. The chemist said and I am quoting that it was impossible. Kobe just looks like a hired gun who will twist everything. He looks like a clown in my opinion.

[deputydi]

It's actually easy for me to understand why Lee won't take a lie detector test. If I were in his shoes, I wouldn't either. I can't imagine a more stressful situation for a brother, and if they were that reliable, they would be admissible in court.

I see no evidence that Lee is guilty of anything except having the bad luck to be born into the Adams Family.

I find the speculation that Lee is Caylee's father to be distasteful, especially since there has been no evidence presented that this is true, and god knows that there has been massive amounts of evidence presented.

It's ironic that while Cindy & George are being hammered for constantly being out there, running their mouths, Lee is being hammered for keeping his mouth shut.

He is the one Anthony I truly feel sorry for.

Donna
The reliability of lie detector tests depends on who you talk to. LE considers the test extremely reliable -- most defense attorneys won't let their client go near one. The reason they are inadmissible in court isn't because they are unreliable, it is because they are not considered "scientific". The courts have held that the results are too subjective.

[SaraSidle]

Good grief, there are plenty of crimes and much crime scene evidence that is found long after the commission of the actual crime. Surely the wrecker company keeps logs, and hopefully law enforcement keeps copious track of chain of evidence. At any rate, the defense should be expected to throw everything at the wall to see what sticks, and The State will no doubt present all kinds of case law to support their case.

Kinda ironic that the Anthonys have publicly disputed the forensic findings, yet the defense doesn't want the jury to hear it.

And Know that they have no basis for it I think they might be going for mentally impaired just a guess. IMO

[deputydi]

And Know that they have no basis for it I think they might be going for mentally impaired just a guess. IMO
That won't fly in their wildest dreams. I'm not sure that's even a valid defense. She's not mentally challenged and the fact that she's a sociopath isn't a defense either.

I believe they will stick with the defense that she just didn't do it. Period. With all the evidence that has been leaked, Casey and her attorneys better start trying to deal. I think that is her only chance to avoid the needle. The prosecution may consider it if the deal comes with a full confession and the revelation of where Caylee's body is. IMO, of course.

[mu8shark]

And Know that they have no basis for it I think they might be going for mentally impaired just a guess. IMO You know someone like Andrea Yates was definitely mentally ill, I mean I rarely see that as a defense. I don't think a jury will buy Casey as mentally ill in so far as she does not know right from wrong. Also in the cases and they are rare where this works, over 90 per cent of the time, defendants have had previous documented mental problems, hospitalization or intense therapy or medications. As far as I know Casey has had none of this. I agree they have no basis for this. What she has is a personality disorder and that is not the same thing as being insane.

[mu8shark]

One other thing struck me tonight about Koblinsky saying chloroform could be accidentally made, what are the odds that Casey looked up chloroform and how to make it and then accidentally made it? Come on!

[deputydi]

One other thing struck me tonight about Koblinsky saying chloroform could be accidentally made, what are the odds that Casey looked up chloroform and how to make it and then accidentally made it? Come on!
Koby is looking and sounding like a real jerk. I had to LOL when he said that.

[SaraSidle]

You know someone like Andrea Yates was definitely mentally ill, I mean I rarely see that as a defense. I don't think a jury will buy Casey as mentally ill in so far as she does not know right from wrong. Also in the cases and they are rare where this works, over 90 per cent of the time, defendants have had previous documented mental problems, hospitalization or intense therapy or medications. As far as I know Casey has had none of this. I agree they have no basis for this. What she has is a personality disorder and that is not the same thing as being insane.

this is such a good post mu8shark. You are exactly on the mark. there is a huge difference between socio/psychopath and post partum depression(conintuously I might add in Andrea's case. On one hand I am leaning towards accident and on the other I really do not think she cares. IMO sara

[SaraSidle]

One other thing struck me tonight about Koblinsky saying chloroform could be accidentally made, what are the odds that Casey looked up chloroform and how to make it and then accidentally made it? Come on!

Well you have to remember he works for the defense now and why on earth he is on Nancy Grace I cannot fathom a guess. IMO sara

[SaraSidle]

This sounds good but they are not going to get the car evidence thrown out because it was in the custody of someone other than Casey or the police. They will more than likely let the evidence come in and let the jury decide if the evidence is there due to Casey or some tow yard guy or some mysterious stranger who planted a body that just happened to have Caylee's mitrochrondial dna. The only way that evidence will get thrown out as far as I can see is if say they searched the car without permission or without a search warrant. And I know in the first 400 documents they get a search warrant, fair and square. There are tons of cases where LE find blood in a car and that car may have been driven by three or four different people and parked at someone's work unlocked or whatever and there does not have to be a chain of custody in order for the blood evidence to come in. The question will be up to the jury to decide, how likely is it that somebody else had a motive, means and opportunity to kill Caylee? Or put or plant evidence in that trunk? Did they also steal her phone and text message about the smell and did they steal her comp and look up missing childrens sites and how to make chloroform? I think we all know how likely that is.


I do hope you are so right......IMo sara

[lorettalockhorn]

One other thing struck me tonight about Koblinsky saying chloroform could be accidentally made, what are the odds that Casey looked up chloroform and how to make it and then accidentally made it? Come on!

Does Kobe even believe the chit that comes out of his mouth?? I had to laugh last night when NG asked him if the police dogs were in on the conspiracy too. Great posts tonight, mu8shark.

[SaraSidle]

Does Kobe even believe the chit that comes out of his mouth?? I had to laugh last night when NG asked him if the police dogs were in on the conspiracy too. Great posts tonight, mu8shark.

thanks Loretta.. I told him/her what to post....... j/k:biggrin: Yes Mu8shark has done a lot of great posts. very smart very realisitic IMO sara

[mu8shark]

Does Kobe even believe the chit that comes out of his mouth?? I had to laugh last night when NG asked him if the police dogs were in on the conspiracy too. Great posts tonight, mu8shark.Thanks, it is always fun to come to this message board because people are so reasonable and there are some really sharp cookies on this board!:beer:

[lorettalockhorn]

I agree it is just spin-what he's supposed to do. Yes Baez should go for a change of venue. Lets do this right. And lets face it,it is her right. Only one shot at this.:rose:

Change of venue to where? Surely there will be one, but isn't the new jurisdiction supposed to be near enough to not put a burden on the witnesses? They'll have to import the jury from Antarctica or something. :tongue:

[SaraSidle]

Change of venue to where? Surely there will be one, but isn't the new jurisdiction supposed to be near enough to not put a burden on the witnesses? They'll have to import the jury from Antarctica or something.

OUt of Orlando would be a good start. their media has been absolutely saturated.............

[mu8shark]

You know what I was wondering? They said part of their theory was that Caylee was in the backyard for a while and I am sort of thinking that would not just be a wild guess. So here is what I wonder, did they find evidence of decomp in the yard , other than the cadaver dog hitting on the yard? Could there have been something in the soil? Could you for instance find chloroform or actual decomp fluid in the soil? LE went back to the backyard several times. I wonder did they take soil samples?

[lorettalockhorn]

thanks Loretta.. I told him/her what to post....... j/k:biggrin: Yes Mu8shark has done a lot of great posts. very smart very realisitic IMO sara

LMAO You nut!

We do need the pragmatic types to keep us grounded.

Thanks, it is always fun to come to this message board because people are so reasonable and there are some really sharp cookies on this board!:beer:

It's great to get other theories; it's so easy to get boxed in by one's(my) own thinking.

[deputydi]

You know what I was wondering? They said part of their theory was that Caylee was in the backyard for a while and I am sort of thinking that would not just be a wild guess. So here is what I wonder, did they find evidence of decomp in the yard , other than the cadaver dog hitting on the yard? Could there have been something in the soil? Could you for instance find chloroform or actual decomp fluid in the soil? LE went back to the backyard several times. I wonder did they take soil samples?
You can bet your sweet bippy LE hasn't told us all they know.

[deputydi]

OUt of Orlando would be a good start. their media has been absolutely saturated.............
Kinda like Scott Peterson -- who in the free world hasn't heard of Casey Anthony? Somehow they manage to seat a jury. :shrug:

[SaraSidle]

You know what I was wondering? They said part of their theory was that Caylee was in the backyard for a while and I am sort of thinking that would not just be a wild guess. So here is what I wonder, did they find evidence of decomp in the yard , other than the cadaver dog hitting on the yard? Could there have been something in the soil? Could you for instance find chloroform or actual decomp fluid in the soil? LE went back to the backyard several times. I wonder did they take soil samples?

I have no idea mu8shark. It would be she buried Caylee twice in the back yard a few times that this just sounds sick but some posters and I feel this is what happened due to the evicence. IMO sara

[lorettalockhorn]

mu8shark, not sure how long it would take for any type of fluid to dissipate or percolate through the water table, but I'm thinking that deputydi is right and we ain't heard nothing yet. No telling to what lengths LE has gone in this case. Kinda wish they would quit publishing so much information, although it would frustrate my quidnunc self.

[mu8shark]

mu8shark, not sure how long it would take for any type of fluid to dissipate or percolate through the water table, but I'm thinking that deputydi is right and we ain't heard nothing yet. No telling to what lengths LE has gone in this case. Kinda wish they would quit publishing so much information, although it would frustrate my quidnunc self. I completely agree. Revealing where the cell phone pings are for example could cause big problems. I mean if they find a body where the pings are , can you imagine the defense saying everyone knew where she went , maybe the real killers put the body there. Also this guy that came forward who supposedly saw Casey in the woods with a man and a shovel, it would be so much easier to establish his credability if they had not released all that info about where the pings were , where they were looking, the info about the shovel. He could be totally sincere and have important info but now it is hard to tell. I am with you, although it satisfies my curiousity, releasing all this info complicates the investigation. It is unusual , because in most cases they hold back a lot more info.

[SaraSidle]

mu8shark, not sure how long it would take for any type of fluid to dissipate or percolate through the water table, but I'm thinking that deputydi is right and we ain't heard nothing yet. No telling to what lengths LE has gone in this case. Kinda wish they would quit publishing so much information, although it would frustrate my quidnunc self.

Loretta I am calling it a night but it would help me sleep tomorrow night if you could tell me sometime soon what a quidnunc is. Or whenever you get around to it. but I agree. every day I wait for info and sometimes it comes and sometimes it don't. I know a lot of people do not like NG but I do pick up a lot on her show wheter it is from her or guests......IMO sara g night

[lorettalockhorn]

Loretta I am calling it a night but it would help me sleep tomorrow night if you could tell me sometime soon what a quidnunc is. Or whenever you get around to it. but I agree. every day I wait for info and sometimes it comes and sometimes it don't. I know a lot of people do not like NG but I do pick up a lot on her show wheter it is from her or guests......IMO sara g night

A quidnunc is a yenta. Nosy with a capital nose! :hat:

I carefully sift through what I hear on NG. I mostly watch her to see her argue with people. Some people were born to argue, doncha know? And she's my hero in that area.

Sweetie pie dreams!

[lorettalockhorn]

beemeup, :hat: is the zany guy (at least that's my interpretation). He's wearing his party hat. I like him better than :biggrin:, because, well, just look at :biggrin:'s big ole buck teeth!

You have to just laugh when Nancy argues down some of those folks. Do they not listen to her questions? Isn't she too busy to listen to drivel other than the answer to her questions? Why don't they answer her? Are they afraid of her questions? Are they afraid of honest answers? Do they have an agenda? Don't they believe what they are saying when they answer her questions?

I just picture her (or someone off camera) with a stopwatch. Doctor/Electrophoresisist/Forensics Specialist from John Jay College of Criminal Justice is damned lucky a buzzer doesn't go off when he opens his mouth. :hat::hat::hat:

[mu8shark]

beemeup, :hat: is the zany guy (at least that's my interpretation). He's wearing his party hat. I like him better than :biggrin:, because, well, just look at :biggrin:'s big ole buck teeth!

You have to just laugh when Nancy argues down some of those folks. Do they not listen to her questions? Isn't she too busy to listen to drivel other than the answer to her questions? Why don't they answer her? Are they afraid of her questions? Are they afraid of honest answers? Do they have an agenda? Don't they believe what they are saying when they answer her questions?

I just picture her (or someone off camera) with a stopwatch. Doctor/Electrophoresisist/Forensics Specialist from John Jay College of Criminal Justice is damned lucky a buzzer doesn't go off when he opens his mouth. :hat::hat::hat:Sometimes I laugh some of the time but sometimes Nancy is downright rude and she didn't used to be as rude as she is. Maybe she is getting a big head. Sometimes I think it is impatience but sometimes it seems like she likes to cut people off or belittle them when they don't agree with her. I mean I get it when she thinks people are being ridiculous but sometimes if I were a guest I would just say, Okay you answer your own question since you don't like the way I answer. Still she is the only game in town on this story. I do miss Greta and her panel a lot.

[lorettalockhorn]

Sometimes I laugh some of the time but sometimes Nancy is downright rude and she didn't used to be as rude as she is. Maybe she is getting a big head. Sometimes I think it is impatience but sometimes it seems like she likes to cut people off or belittle them when they don't agree with her. I mean I get it when she thinks people are being ridiculous but sometimes if I were a guest I would just say, Okay you answer your own question since you don't like the way I answer. Still she is the only game in town on this story. I do miss Greta and her panel a lot.

Oh yeah, she honks me off too from time to time. Lately, her negative attitude (granted that may be only my perception) toward Tim Miller chaps my ass big time. Chalking it up to hormones would sound sexist. Considering the company she keeps, I'll give her a break. :shrug:

[sharlock]

I think LE just wants to cover all bases in cross examination. They need to prove the hair was Caylee's. The band theory is just that for now - a theory. If they can definitely say the hair was Caylee's and it came from a dead person. That's that. But if the defense challenges the band theory and says you don't even know for sure that it is Caylee's, then the evidence is questionable. For instance, what if the defense says that one day Casey was putting a stroller in the trunk of the car and her hair got stuck on a wheel and was yanked out of her head. If some small amount of scalp tissue came off, well then that tissue would decompose and maybe the band would form. JMO.

Gator

I hope noone from Casey's defense team reads here Gator lol. you might be giving them ideas. I read on another site that Lee has changed his phone message and that it tells the caller to donate by email as he doesn't answer the phone now AND if the caller is not calling for this reason that they may be subject to a civil suit for harassment etc.
I don't understand why people would threaten Lee, George or Cindy, but it certainly sounds like he has gotten his fair share of abusive and threatening phone calls.

[tv]

I'm a little surprised that the defense team doesn't object to Kobelinsky appearing on NG these days. I agree that she can be rude and impatient but in the case of Kobe I can't blame her. He is coming up with some of the most ridiculous explanations for what may have happened.

On the other hand, I thought she was very rude to Tim Miller last night for no reason. He's donating his time and his team to this and has lost a daughter himself. She needs to tone it down with him.

[sharlock]

I was really surprised Pedilla became a frequent guest on NG's show. NG seemed rather put out with him at first because he was bailing Casey out, but when it came down to the 2nd bail out, he didnt do it and she had a change of heart. I do figure he knows a few things and has shared them with NG because he was so close to the situation.
I remember watching a news program with LP and someone questioned if something LP had said was credible even and another guest from the FBI said that he had had dealings with LP many times and thought he was reliable and that all of the info LP had ever given him was credible. Does anyone remember which show this was on so I can go back and take a second look at it please.

[sharlock]

With Casey, anything is possible...

But I really don't think she had planned on killing Caylee. The idea that she may have used chloroform or xanax as a 'babysitter'; or that she had Caylee 'nap' in the trunk; or her lies about getting the house and the possibility of some sinister plan for her parents; or that she was checking lost children sites for homework in staging a kidnapping...I can see how those may have been plans, or ideas for her.

I just don't think that if she had planned on killing Caylee, her plan wouldn't have included getting rid of a body. It would appear that she panicked after the fact, and that makes me believe that she didn't intend to kill Caylee.
I see what you're saying but I think she did have a plan for disposing of the body. Hidden in plain sight; I think Caylee was meant to be found floating in the pool with Casey the distraught parent looking for loads of sympathy and taking full advantage of this situation to silence any talk of her wrongdoings, bring her back into the family fold as if she had never stolen money or lied and no expectations of the grieving mum; just plenty of support. If Caylee was only knocked out from the chloroform she would have still been breathing and her death would have appeared accidental with her lungs full of water. This scenario also explains how she could have been fully prepared for the murder down to having made homemade chloroform but then carrying poor Caylee around in the trunk of a car seemingly unsure of where to put her. In this scenario she hadn't meant for Caylee to die before she was put into the pool and had been so arrogant as to have not planned for things to not go as she had planned.

[deacon]

Oh yeah, she honks me off too from time to time. Lately, her negative attitude (granted that may be only my perception) toward Tim Miller chaps my ass big time. Chalking it up to hormones would sound sexist. Considering the company she keeps, I'll give her a break. :shrug:

Remember, she was a prosecuter. Now, if we think she is being rude and cutting in her questions and comments what will the prosecuter in this case do to him on the stand? They will make mince meat out of him if he can not give reasonable explanations for what he says. I really don't think his "way out there" explanations are going to fly in court. I think he will end up looking a little "not so smart."

[lorettalockhorn]

I'm a little surprised that the defense team doesn't object to Kobelinsky appearing on NG these days. I agree that she can be rude and impatient but in the case of Kobe I can't blame her. He is coming up with some of the most ridiculous explanations for what may have happened.

On the other hand, I thought she was very rude to Tim Miller last night for no reason. He's donating his time and his team to this and has lost a daughter himself. She needs to tone it down with him.


Remember, she was a prosecuter. Now, if we think she is being rude and cutting in her questions and comments what will the prosecuter in this case do to him on the stand? They will make mince meat out of him if he can not give reasonable explanations for what he says. I really don't think his "way out there" explanations are going to fly in court. I think he will end up looking a little "not so smart."

ITA about Kobilinsky or any other potential witness. Wonder if he comes off as quite the idiot that he appears to be on TV when he's actually in court?

I don't have a problem with any attorney being rough and intimidating a witness, but we're talking about a TV host and how she handles some of her guests. Sometime she acts more like a troll with bait. And it's her attitude toward TM in particular that puzzles me; she seems to take issue with him having left Orlando because of a lack of cooperation with Cindy. As I understood it, the conditions were unsuitable for searching at the time. Should Tim be a witness, he seems like an honest and credible guy and doesn't seem the type to fold under cross-examination.

[lorettalockhorn]

Investigation Discovery's David Lohr will be a live call in guest this weekend on True Crimes, a radio show hosted by Edgar Award winning true crime writer Burl Barer.

Topics of discussion will include the Casey Anthony and Kelly Currin Morris case.

http://blogs.discovery.com/criminal_report/2008/10/investigation-1.html

[joekuhl79]

I don't have a problem with any attorney being rough and intimidating a witness, but we're talking about a TV host and how she handles some of her guests. Sometime she acts more like a troll with bait. And it's her attitude toward TM in particular that puzzles me; she seems to take issue with him having left Orlando because of a lack of cooperation with Cindy. As I understood it, the conditions were unsuitable for searching at the time. Should Tim be a witness, he seems like an honest and credible guy and doesn't seem the type to fold under cross-examination.

Not to defend NG, but TM has had me confused. He goes on the show and says that he's looking for Caylee. Then he says he's leaving because no cooperation from CA. Then he's staying because LE is donating. Then he's leaving because of the weather. Then he comes back and almost immediately says he's leaving. Then he says he's staying until they find Caylee. Then all of a sudden he's gone.

I know the guy has other causes - and I saw they found someone just last month (in NC, I think?) - but I can see how it would be frustrating.

[joekuhl79]

I'm a little surprised that the defense team doesn't object to Kobelinsky appearing on NG these days. I agree that she can be rude and impatient but in the case of Kobe I can't blame her. He is coming up with some of the most ridiculous explanations for what may have happened.

Last night, though she stopped him before he could finish, he was trying to imply that a dead animal can produce chloroform! She called him out and said something like "Now we know what the defense strategy is"!

I wonder if he'll be on again for Caylee segments?

[sharlock]

deputydi Quote:
Originally Posted by SaraSidle http://boards.crimelibrary.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://boards.crimelibrary.com/showthread.php?p=9133819#post9133819)
OUt of Orlando would be a good start. their media has been absolutely saturated.............

Kinda like Scott Peterson -- who in the free world hasn't heard of Casey Anthony? Somehow they manage to seat a jury. :shrug:

They could move it to Australia maybe?:rolleyes:
If I wasn't such a crime nut I wouldn't have heard of the case; it surprises me that this case isn't international actually, it has all the twists and turns needed for the media to take a crime story to the world stage.

[tv]

Last night, though she stopped him before he could finish, he was trying to imply that a dead animal can produce chloroform! She called him out and said something like "Now we know what the defense strategy is"!

I wonder if he'll be on again for Caylee segments?

I'm thinking after that remark by NG the defense might tell him no more appearing on the show, I don't know if they can do that. They can fire him though. By the way, is it my imagination or has Kobelinsky lost a LOT of weight?

[beachbum]

Kinda like Scott Peterson -- who in the free world hasn't heard of Casey Anthony? Somehow they manage to seat a jury. :shrug:

This is true, I knew a couple in New Mexico that didnt have a tv and had small kids, they never had heard of Scott Peterson during all of that saga. I said you have to be kidding so it can happen.

[deacon]

ITA about Kobilinsky or any other potential witness. Wonder if he comes off as quite the idiot that he appears to be on TV when he's actually in court?

I don't have a problem with any attorney being rough and intimidating a witness, but we're talking about a TV host and how she handles some of her guests. Sometime she acts more like a troll with bait. And it's her attitude toward TM in particular that puzzles me; she seems to take issue with him having left Orlando because of a lack of cooperation with Cindy. As I understood it, the conditions were unsuitable for searching at the time. Should Tim be a witness, he seems like an honest and credible guy and doesn't seem the type to fold under cross-examination.

I feel she is a little rough sometimes too. I just think it is the prosecuter in her. She can't get rid of it.

[Gatordog]

You are correct. If Baez tries to use this "theory", he will be laughed out of court.

That is not what I heard from another specialist, might have been Michael Baden. They don't have a lot of documentation yet on the band theory. It was said that decomposition is what causes the band and if the skin attached to the hair decomposes it will cause the band and skin that is removed from a living person will decompose. Not my opion but repeating what I heard.

Gator

[beachbum]

I feel she is a little rough sometimes too. I just think it is the prosecuter in her. She can't get rid of it.

When he talks I just hear the Charlie Brown teacher going Wawawawawawa!
lol-he just gets on my nerves. I dont know she even bothers with having him on there. Greta Van Sustran on Fox was following this case but has not mentioned it since its been so close to election time. Geraldo was going to have a guest on his show last week regarding the Anthony case but I missed it.

[Gatordog]

That's what I thought too from the information posted in the articles forum. :confused:

There's a difference between being pulled as for a DNA test and having your hair yanked out. If you pull a hair with only the root, the band won't occur, but if it is yanked and has some scalp skin attached then it's possible the band can occur since the skin will decompose. The defense only needs one witness to state this to cause some doubt.

[Gatordog]

Gatordog I know you do not want to hear this but the mind and heart are always going to be black and white.
1&2 First of all I cannot fathom was is going in in the parent's minds at this time. the confusion and shock and acceptance must be so very strong. I do actually believe they were trying to help her instead of enable her. Cindy went to a therpist so we know she was seeking help. Casey was not mentally ill and it would have been quite the battle for Cindy to take Custody but she tried. She realized Casey had problems but I still do not know how deep she thinks those problems were.
3 I know there have been plenty of times that family members have turned someone in for one reason or another and it is very very hard to do. I had to move out of an apt I was staying at with my unemployed brother. Lease was up. After weeks of talking I just told him I would call LE if he did not leave. He left to stay with friends and I have felt guilty about it every since.
whew. did not mean to be so winded.......IMO sara

Hi Sara, regarding Cindy's going to a therapist. She only went to a therapist a few days before Father's Day. She knew for a very long time that Casey was not being a good mother or person for that matter. It had to be at least a year that she was having problems with Casey based on Cindy's own comments. Her obligation was to protect Caylee which she didn't do and now can't face the truth due to guilt. I don't think she ever in her worst nightmare expected Caylee to die, but there were signs that she was being badly neglected.

[lorettalockhorn]

Not to defend NG, but TM has had me confused. He goes on the show and says that he's looking for Caylee. Then he says he's leaving because no cooperation from CA. Then he's staying because LE is donating. Then he's leaving because of the weather. Then he comes back and almost immediately says he's leaving. Then he says he's staying until they find Caylee. Then all of a sudden he's gone.

I know the guy has other causes - and I saw they found someone just last month (in NC, I think?) - but I can see how it would be frustrating.

Now that you mention North Carolina, when he stated that he would be returning to Orlando when conditions improved (yes, it was at the time when Cindy apparently refused cooperation; but does he really, really need her cooperation?), he did conduct two searches in NC for Kelly Morris and Jamie Fraley. It's not like he grabbed his ball and stomped off the playground.

My point about Nancy is that the concept/keywords host and guest seem to escape her at times. But I like curmudgeons, so it's all good.

[lorettalockhorn]

Hi Sara, regarding Cindy's going to a therapist. She only went to a therapist a few days before Father's Day. She knew for a very long time that Casey was not being a good mother or person for that matter. It had to be at least a year that she was having problems with Casey based on Cindy's own comments. Her obligation was to protect Caylee which she didn't do and now can't face the truth due to guilt. I don't think she ever in her worst nightmare expected Caylee to die, but there were signs that she was being badly neglected.

Thanks Gatordog, I've been very curious about the therapy sessions and if it was individual therapy, family/group therapy or what and the duration. Cannot even remember where I read that Cindy was advised to sue for custody of Caylee, but if she got that out of one session, she must have had some pretty bombshell information for the therapist.

[lorettalockhorn]

They could move it to Australia maybe?:rolleyes:
If I wasn't such a crime nut I wouldn't have heard of the case; it surprises me that this case isn't international actually, it has all the twists and turns needed for the media to take a crime story to the world stage.

I live in BFE and case updates are in our jerkwater newspaper every day. It's not a lot of information, but just the fact that the updates appear is somewhat of a barometer of how sensational the case is. IMO

[lorettalockhorn]

Some forensic test results in the Casey Anthony case were released by the state this morning. These results include tests that were done at the body farm in Tennessee. Sources have said air samples taken from the trunk of Anthony's car showed that the trunk once held a decomposing body.

Earlier this month, Orange Circuit Judge Stan Strickland ordered the state to turn over reports dealing with evidence found in the trunk, including traces of chloroform, hair stands and air samples.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orange/orl-casey-anthony-test-results-102408,0,3710436.story

Link to report:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orange/orl-casey-anthony-documents-102408,0,5346622.htmlpage

[lorettalockhorn]

It seems like most of us don't believe that Casey is psychotic, but when I think about G&C continuing to drink the Casey Koolaid, I can't help but think about this:

http://www.psychiatryonline.com/content.aspx?aID=9260&searchStr=shared+paranoid+disorder

The talking heads say that Cindy will never be charged, but shouldn't she be held accountable for what happened to Caylee? If anyone could have prevented this, it was Cindy and/or George.

And a little OT: but how does Cindy know that the car didn't smell of death before it was towed?

[Gatordog]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orange/orl-casey-anthony-test-results-102408,0,3710436.story

[Gatordog]

I see what you're saying but I think she did have a plan for disposing of the body. Hidden in plain sight; I think Caylee was meant to be found floating in the pool with Casey the distraught parent looking for loads of sympathy and taking full advantage of this situation to silence any talk of her wrongdoings, bring her back into the family fold as if she had never stolen money or lied and no expectations of the grieving mum; just plenty of support. If Caylee was only knocked out from the chloroform she would have still been breathing and her death would have appeared accidental with her lungs full of water. This scenario also explains how she could have been fully prepared for the murder down to having made homemade chloroform but then carrying poor Caylee around in the trunk of a car seemingly unsure of where to put her. In this scenario she hadn't meant for Caylee to die before she was put into the pool and had been so arrogant as to have not planned for things to not go as she had planned.

I agree that Casey would have loved to be able to play the grieving mother role. I am sure she is disappointed that she cannot play up that role in order to gather sympathy. All your conclusions make lots of sense.

[Gatordog]

Remember, she was a prosecuter. Now, if we think she is being rude and cutting in her questions and comments what will the prosecuter in this case do to him on the stand? They will make mince meat out of him if he can not give reasonable explanations for what he says. I really don't think his "way out there" explanations are going to fly in court. I think he will end up looking a little "not so smart."

Years ago on Courttv, I saw Nancy Grace prosecuting a murder case. I remembered that she was relentless and got every answer she wanted and immediately cut off any answer that she didn't. Talk about a pit bull with lipstick! She was fabulous, not to mention that she got a first degree murder verdict. :beer:

[Gatordog]

I hope noone from Casey's defense team reads here Gator lol. you might be giving them ideas. I read on another site that Lee has changed his phone message and that it tells the caller to donate by email as he doesn't answer the phone now AND if the caller is not calling for this reason that they may be subject to a civil suit for harassment etc.
I don't understand why people would threaten Lee, George or Cindy, but it certainly sounds like he has gotten his fair share of abusive and threatening phone calls.

Hello Sharlock,

If you saw some of the local news reports where they were speaking to the public, you'd know why. They have toned it down tremendously, but they were the ones who were arrogant first to the public and then the public started to rebel.

[Gatordog]

That is what I heard from another specialist, might have been Michael Baden. They don't have a lot of documentation yet on the band theory. It was said that decomposition is what causes the band and if the skin attached to the hair decomposes it will cause the band and skin that is removed from a living person will decompose. Not my opion but repeating what I heard.

Gator

Edit - I believe it was Dr. Michael Baden on Fox News channel.

[Sea Zephyr]

I'm glad NG is no longer a prosecutor. I only watch her show because no one else is giving the Anthony case the coverage that she is. I personally think she is a mean, miserable person. I also think it's peculiar how she goes from being rude to her guests to syrupy sweet to the callers. She comes of as being unbalanced which I'm sure she is. When I watch her show, I take her own opinions with a grain of salt and look for whatever truth there might be in police and witness reports. NG is sarcastic, mean and belittling. Frankly, I don't think her attitude belongs anywhere, in the courtroom or on TV.

[TOEJAM]

I did a search on the uses of chloroform and came up with this...

Chloroform can easily be carried in water, and when it is exposed to oxygen and sunlight, a chemical reaction forms phosgene, a toxic gas. If chloroform is exposed outdoors, the phosgene will break down and ultimately become harmless, but in enclosed spaces, it can be highly dangerous: in addition to use in modern manufacturing processes, phosgene had a historical use as a deadly chemical weapon in both World War I. In groundwater, chloroform will build up and take a long time to break down, because it is not readily water-soluble. For this reason, most environmental agencies set safety levels for chloroform content, so that water can be routinely evaluated to see whether or not it poses a threat to consumers

obviously the trunk of the car would be an enclosed space with little or no air curculating......

i also found this which was asked about in an earlier post....

It doesn't stick to soil very well and can travel through soil to groundwater

what i was looking for was if chloroform was being used to get high in the "club scene" i found no mention of that although it does cause dizzyness...

[lorettalockhorn]

Bump...Thank you Loretta! (Sorry for editing)

Why was a 1/4 inch of Caylee's hair found on the label of the shovel, which wasn't hers? Caylee wasn't around when her mother borrowed that shovel.

Out of 51 chemicals identified, 41 are consistent with human decomposition. Indications that any type of decompositional event that might be associated with the odor in the truck could have occured under deprived oxygen conditions, The chemicals identified appear very early in human decomposition.

Caylee woke up, couldn't get out, couldn't breathe, and died? The rest of the story............will come out.:(

Caylee:rose:

From what I can discern, Kobe's theory of animal decomposition is blown out of the water.

Also, (I think I'm understanding), the absence of fluorides indicate that the decomposing body was that of a child. Now, which other missing or presumed dead child coincidentally ended up in Casey's trunk?

[lorettalockhorn]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orange/orl-casey-anthony-test-results-102408,0,3710436.story

Gator, et alii, if you find links that I haven't found, will you post them in the news forum for us? :beer: