Caylee Anthony Case Discussion Only

[mu8shark]

IKWYM. She seems to have her days where she is very rude. Sometimes I wonder how she can keep people on the show. I know if I were some of them I would get tired of being treated that way. I think LP should be allowed to say as much as he wants but she always cuts him off. I know iTA , I think Leonard has enough info to fill an hour and I agree I would, as a guest be tempted to say No thanks Miss Nasty Grace. I mean what that cop said tonight was totally reasonable, just because there are two guys in that car with the same story does not make it the gospel truth.

[applesandorange]

Wow, so given the article I just posted and George saying they believe she is in Puerto Rico, do you guys think this is their theory? How did she get there and since you can't show row a boat to Puerto Rico, she should show up somewhere on a passenger list, I mean if Casey sold her to someone or gave to someone and they got on a plane and they would have had to, where is the passenger list with the name of the woman or man she sold her to? I still think this family is living in fantasy land. On the dress, it was a size six according to Tim Miller which seems too big for Caylee. Cindy held up Caylees dress on the Today show supposedly. I have a photo of Caylee in the dress on my site and if someone can tell me how to load it, I will bring it. Caylee was really little so it could not be that size six dress unless the size was wrong or unless when she outgrew it, they bought her another. Just my opinion.

I think Casey said PR because her friends went there. I think it was just in her mind at the time and that's the place that came out of her mouth. About the dress I thought it was already said that it does not belong to Caylee. I'm not sure why they are still bringing it up.

[mu8shark]

I think Casey said PR because her friends went there. I think it was just in her mind at the time and that's the place that came out of her mouth. About the dress I thought it was already said that it does not belong to Caylee. I'm not sure why they are still bringing it up. Well if for some reason she tries to implicate Amy or her friends I mean a flight manifest will show whether they boarded a plane or not with a child. And those tips if there are 5,000 of them , the defense can only bring in the ones that are valid and have foundation. So I think they are barking up the wrong tree. As for Cindy saying in that article she is disturbed they are not following up on the tips she is alive , LE in most cases once they get forensics they believe in, does not go on wild goose chases. I have two questions for you all, if they find the body , what do you think Cindy will say then? Also if the story about Casey in the woods with a man dressed in a business suit is right, who do you guys think that could be?Jesse and Tony both took lie detector tests. Lee would not take one. Do you guys know what his job is by chance?

[applesandorange]

Well if for some reason she tries to implicate Amy or her friends I mean a flight manifest will show whether they boarded a plane or not with a child. And those tips if there are 5,000 of them , the defense can only bring in the ones that are valid and have foundation. So I think they are barking up the wrong tree. As for Cindy saying in that article she is disturbed they are not following up on the tips she is alive , LE in most cases once they get forensics they believe in, does not go on wild goose chases. I have two questions for you all, if they find the body , what do you think Cindy will say then? Also if the story about Casey in the woods with a man dressed in a business suit is right, who do you guys think that could be?Jesse and Tony both took lie detector tests. Lee would not take one. Do you guys know what his job is by chance?


Well if Caylee's body is found I think Cindy will either deny the remains are actually Caylee's or she will say whoever took Caylee killed her. IMO Cindy will never admit the truth to herself or the public. She will say the media caused Caylee's death.

I think the guy in the business suit could very well be Lee Anthony. I think he must have some type of professional job that he has to travel a lot. At the very least I would think it is a job where he may have to wear a suit. JMO Something is very strange about Lee. Has been from the begining. Now all of a sudden he has dropped off the radar. What's going on? His sister is indicted on murder charges and he's quiet. I wonder if he's avoiding the spotlight for a reason.

[lorettalockhorn]

This guy sure waited a while to come forward but it could be valid I suppose, maybe he does not watch tv. But despite what Nancy says, even if both guys in the car say the story is true, they need to vet it, because people come out of the woodwork, sometimes for glory, sometimes just to be helpful and sometimes telling the truth but it would be great if they found something. I am a little miffed that Tim Miller let Cindy Anthony put him off the search, at least that is what Nancy says. I wonder if it is just what he said and it is not quite dry enough yet. Surely, he would not cancel a search because Cindy was not cooperating and mad at him. hope not. I know he is coming back Nov 8 seems like a long way off

It's so hard to know with NG if the witness only just now came forward, or it he's just now outing himself to her. It's hard to believe that anyone withing the reach of cable or satellite TV or newspapers, etc. doesn't know what Casey looks like, or where the search area is now focused.

My understanding about the TES search was that Tim had said that he would definitely return when conditions were conducive to not passing over or destroying evidence.

[applesandorange]

I believe TES will resume their search in November. I actually e mailed them and got a response stating they are planning to resume in November. If anyone wants to read the e mail just message me and I will give it to you.

[mu8shark]

Well if Caylee's body is found I think Cindy will either deny the remains are actually Caylee's or she will say whoever took Caylee killed her. IMO Cindy will never admit the truth to herself or the public. She will say the media caused Caylee's death.

I think the guy in the business suit could very well be Lee Anthony. I think he must have some type of professional job that he has to travel a lot. At the very least I would think it is a job where he may have to wear a suit. JMO Something is very strange about Lee. Has been from the begining. Now all of a sudden he has dropped off the radar. What's going on? His sister is indicted on murder charges and he's quiet. I wonder if he's avoiding the spotlight for a reason. I bet when the police took out bags of evidence they took a hairbrush or something or toothbrush of Caylees so they can get her dna as since they do not know the father, they can not compare mom and dads dna. So it would be weird if she denied it was her but knowing her she might. I think you are probably right about her blaming the media, she will say the real kidnappers killed Caylee because of all the publicity and the cell phone pings are because someone stole Caseys phone or knew the location of the pings because of the media. In a way letting all these locations out is not good as it can play into the hands of the defense, ie? see someone had Caylee, heard where the pings were on tv and framed Casey by putting Caylees body there. .

[applesandorange]

I bet when the police took out bags of evidence they took a hairbrush or something or toothbrush of Caylees so they can get her dna as since they do not know the father, they can not compare mom and dads dna. So it would be weird if she denied it was her but knowing her she might. I think you are probably right about her blaming the media, she will say the real kidnappers killed Caylee because of all the publicity and the cell phone pings are because someone stole Caseys phone or knew the location of the pings because of the media. In a way letting all these locations out is not good as it can play into the hands of the defense, ie? see someone had Caylee, heard where the pings were on tv and framed Casey by putting Caylees body there. .

You make a good point about the information being leaked. The defense really could say that. I don't know how far they would get though because of all the evidence in Casey's car. They could try though.

[mu8shark]

It's so hard to know with NG if the witness only just now came forward, or it he's just now outing himself to her. It's hard to believe that anyone withing the reach of cable or satellite TV or newspapers, etc. doesn't know what Casey looks like, or where the search area is now focused.

My understanding about the TES search was that Tim had said that he would definitely return when conditions were conducive to not passing over or destroying evidence.Supposedly he came forward to WFTV and then told the police. which is odd. ALso they said it was in the same area as the woman saw her or someone who looked like her but the woman did not mention any man at all.

[SaraSidle]

Hey Sara! Do we know much about Cindy filing for custody of Caylee? When was it suggested that she do so? The suggestion was from na therapist, right? Was this family therapy? Did Cindy ever make any strides in gaining custory? I'd love to know more about the psychological aspects of this case. Especially since it seems (to me)that G&C were totally clueless about the way that Casey functions.

Loretta I do not have links but from what i have studied I think some how Cindy and George knew that Casey did not want responsiblity of the baby. She told Cindy she was pregnant and wanted to give it up for adoption but apparently Cindy did not want that. So I think Casey went and had Caylee and her parents took over raising her making Casey feel indadequate and jealous. In other words now Caylee was getting more attention than Casey who was used to being the youngest. So I think Cindy did go to therapy when she figures out Casey was a liar,stealing and hard to trust because she was worried about Caylee's welfare. In the meant time Casey says she wants to go on vacation with every else to the caribbean George and Cindy will not give her the money or babysitting. Then Cindy finds out on June 15 when she takes Caylee to visit her parents that Casey has been
stealing from her grandparents. I feel that she is so upset by this and wants to get a way to figure out what to do next. If this was the argument the neighor heard it made sense that she would want to leave and maybe rebel. If my theory is correct Casey would be diagnosed as a
Psychopath/sociopath. She does not feel guilt. She does not care about right or wrong. If she hurts someone it does not bother her. She compensates on feeling bad by blaming others. she may even have convinced herself that Caylee was kidnapped and nothing is her fault so she will continue to lie because she is innocent and convinced it is everyone else.
And maybe accidentally or otherwise something happened to Caylee on the 15th or 16th which lead to her death. It went downhill from there. In the meant time I think both George and Cindy Love Caylee,feel responsible because they wanted to adopt Caylee and let her go with Casey, feel guilty cause they raised Casey and she is not a good mother. Maybe they feel they could have stopped the whole thing but between the denial and not feeling in control they did nothing Now Casey is in jail for a long time and the grandparents feel like he77 and there is nothing or no one that can really help. I apologize for this being so long. Please feel free to disagree I really welcome it for new ideas.....................IMO sara

[mu8shark]

You make a good point about the information being leaked. The defense really could say that. I don't know how far they would get though because of all the evidence in Casey's car. They could try though. Oh yeah as a juror I could not get by that evidence in the car. Did someone say that Casey left her purse in the car? I thought I heard that. I wonder if she left the car unlocked with the keys there so it would appear someone else got into the trunk. Not saying I believe that story, just trying to see all the things the defense may go for. There is just no reasonable way around the evidence in the trunk.

[SaraSidle]

Oh yeah as a juror I could not get by that evidence in the car. Did someone say that Casey left her purse in the car? I thought I heard that. I wonder if she left the car unlocked with the keys there so it would appear someone else got into the trunk. Not saying I believe that story, just trying to see all the things the defense may go for. There is just no reasonable way around the evidence in the trunk.

Well at that point after she got rid of Caylee I think she was thinking of saying she was hijacked (susan smith) and might go with that story if the car was stolen.............IMO sara

[SaraSidle]

Well if Caylee's body is found I think Cindy will either deny the remains are actually Caylee's or she will say whoever took Caylee killed her. IMO Cindy will never admit the truth to herself or the public. She will say the media caused Caylee's death.

I think the guy in the business suit could very well be Lee Anthony. I think he must have some type of professional job that he has to travel a lot. At the very least I would think it is a job where he may have to wear a suit. JMO Something is very strange about Lee. Has been from the begining. Now all of a sudden he has dropped off the radar. What's going on? His sister is indicted on murder charges and he's quiet. I wonder if he's avoiding the spotlight for a reason.

I truly believe that even if Caylee is found at this time all evidence will point to kidnapping..............I do not know if charges will stick IMO sara

[Sea Zephyr]

Some posts have mentioned a photo of Casey and Zanaida together. Has anyone actually seen such a photo?

[lorettalockhorn]

Supposedly he came forward to WFTV and then told the police. which is odd. ALso they said it was in the same area as the woman saw her or someone who looked like her but the woman did not mention any man at all.

Thanks, didn't realize that he had gone to the media first. Talk about strange! I have a tendency not to believe him. His recollection is too detailed.

Loretta I do not have links but from what i have studied I think some how Cindy and George knew that Casey did not want responsiblity of the baby. She told Cindy she was pregnant and wanted to give it up for adoption but apparently Cindy did not want that. So I think Casey went and had Caylee and her parents took over raising her making Casey feel indadequate and jealous. In other words now Caylee was getting more attention than Casey who was used to being the youngest. So I think Cindy did go to therapy when she figures out Casey was a liar,stealing and hard to trust because she was worried about Caylee's welfare. In the meant time Casey says she wants to go on vacation with every else to the caribbean George and Cindy will not give her the money or babysitting. Then Cindy finds out on June 15 when she takes Caylee to visit her parents that Casey has been
stealing from her grandparents. I feel that she is so upset by this and wants to get a way to figure out what to do next. If this was the argument the neighor heard it made sense that she would want to leave and maybe rebel. If my theory is correct Casey would be diagnosed as a
Psychopath/sociopath. She does not feel guilt. She does not care about right or wrong. If she hurts someone it does not bother her. She compensates on feeling bad by blaming others. she may even have convinced herself that Caylee was kidnapped and nothing is her fault so she will continue to lie because she is innocent and convinced it is everyone else.
And maybe accidentally or otherwise something happened to Caylee on the 15th or 16th which lead to her death. It went downhill from there. In the meant time I think both George and Cindy Love Caylee,feel responsible because they wanted to adopt Caylee and let her go with Casey, feel guilty cause they raised Casey and she is not a good mother. Maybe they feel they could have stopped the whole thing but between the denial and not feeling in control they did nothing Now Casey is in jail for a long time and the grandparents feel like he77 and there is nothing or no one that can really help. I apologize for this being so long. Please feel free to disagree I really welcome it for new ideas.....................IMO sara

I'll never understand exactly why it is that G&C didn't just adopt Caylee once Cindy convinced Caylee to not place her for adoption. In fact, I just cannot seem to get past blaming them almost as much as Casey for what has happened to Caylee. Period.

[mu8shark]

Well another thing that would really give me trouble as a juror is Caseys demeanor. I mean on the tapes she is talking like she misplaced sunglasses not a child and I know people grieve in different ways but to be partying , buying up beer and as she says on her text messages smoking a lot of pot, and hitting the Target for some stolen stuff is to me beyond the pale. I mean she never even broke down and cried in front of friends or boyfriends. What mother who was genuinely concerned who act this way? Sounds like it was one long freedom party.

[mu8shark]

[QUOTE=lorettalockhorn;9132512]Thanks, didn't realize that he had gone to the media first. Talk about strange! I have a tendency not to believe him. His recollection is too detailed.



It does sound mighty detailed for a guy who was just driving by looking for scrap metal. He said they did not stop because his friend did not want to, so how long could he have observed?

[SaraSidle]

Hey Sara! Do we know much about Cindy filing for custody of Caylee? When was it suggested that she do so? The suggestion was from na therapist, right? Was this family therapy? Did Cindy ever make any strides in gaining custory? I'd love to know more about the psychological aspects of this case. Especially since it seems (to me)that G&C were totally clueless about the way that Casey functions.

lorretta all I have been able to gather so far is Cindy alone went to the therapist and they both agreed Cindy should think about adoption and declaring her daughter Casey incompetent. I have a feeling in fact when she was screaming at her mother June 15 as the neighbor's heard that she was screaming out her plan to take Caylee away which would hurt the grandparents and fill Casey's rebellion and jealousy by giving her control.(KC)
Not too mention Cindy was very angry at Casey stealing from her grandparents. IMO sara

[applesandorange]

I truly believe that even if Caylee is found at this time all evidence will point to kidnapping..............I do not know if charges will stick IMO sara


I respectfull disagree. All the evidence in Caylee's trunk, the decomp in the back yard, Caseys's behavior during the time Caylee was missing. I don't see how any of the evidence points to a kidnapping. Not when all the evidence is in her trunk.

[minga]

Loretta I do not have links but from what i have studied I think some how Cindy and George knew that Casey did not want responsiblity of the baby. She told Cindy she was pregnant and wanted to give it up for adoption but apparently Cindy did not want that. So I think Casey went and had Caylee and her parents took over raising her making Casey feel indadequate and jealous. In other words now Caylee was getting more attention than Casey who was used to being the youngest. So I think Cindy did go to therapy when she figures out Casey was a liar,stealing and hard to trust because she was worried about Caylee's welfare. In the meant time Casey says she wants to go on vacation with every else to the caribbean George and Cindy will not give her the money or babysitting. Then Cindy finds out on June 15 when she takes Caylee to visit her parents that Casey has been
stealing from her grandparents. I feel that she is so upset by this and wants to get a way to figure out what to do next. If this was the argument the neighor heard it made sense that she would want to leave and maybe rebel. If my theory is correct Casey would be diagnosed as a
Psychopath/sociopath. She does not feel guilt. She does not care about right or wrong. If she hurts someone it does not bother her. She compensates on feeling bad by blaming others. she may even have convinced herself that Caylee was kidnapped and nothing is her fault so she will continue to lie because she is innocent and convinced it is everyone else.
And maybe accidentally or otherwise something happened to Caylee on the 15th or 16th which lead to her death. It went downhill from there. In the meant time I think both George and Cindy Love Caylee,feel responsible because they wanted to adopt Caylee and let her go with Casey, feel guilty cause they raised Casey and she is not a good mother. Maybe they feel they could have stopped the whole thing but between the denial and not feeling in control they did nothing Now Casey is in jail for a long time and the grandparents feel like he77 and there is nothing or no one that can really help. I apologize for this being so long. Please feel free to disagree I really welcome it for new ideas.....................IMO sara


I can't help but fault Cindy with a great degree of this tragedy. Casey comes in and says she's pregnant and doesn't want the child. At that point she (Casey) should have made her own decisions even though she was still a child. I suppose Cindy was so controlling Casey didn't dare do anything other than what Cindy demanded. I don't know if they are Catholic and an abortion would be out of the question so she HAD to admit it to Cindy. But if Cindy demanded that she have it, demanded that it would not be put up for adoption then at that point Cindy should have become responsible for Caylee in totality. She should not have demanded Casey ever mother this child. Casey could have walked free. She could have sponged off someone for the money to go to PR or she could have stripped for it, prostituted for it, whatever easy way she came by money. But Cindy should have kept Caylee for her to go...she should have adopted her from the very first. You DO NOT demand someone do your will. That's a guaranteed recipe for disaster.

I suppose she was trying to force Casey to grow up, but boy did that backfire. You don't demand something from someone incapable of giving it. She KNEW, she Knew Casey didn't want her. This is on Cindy's head too.

That's just how I feel about it.

ETA: I was typing while you were posting Loretta. I feel very strongly about this.

[applesandorange]

I can't help but fault Cindy with a great degree of this tragedy. Casey comes in and says she's pregnant and doesn't want the child. At that point she (Casey) should have made her own decisions even though she was still a child. I suppose Cindy was so controlling Casey didn't dare do anything other than what Cindy demanded. I don't know if they are Catholic and an abortion would be out of the question so she HAD to admit it to Cindy. But if Cindy demanded that she have it, demanded that it would not be put up for adoption then at that point Cindy should have become responsible for Caylee in totality. She should not have demanded Casey ever mother this child. Casey could have walked free. She could have sponged off someone for the money to go to PR or she could have stripped for it, prostituted for it, whatever easy way she came by money. But Cindy should have kept Caylee for her to go...she should have adopted her from the very first. You DO NOT demand someone do your will. That's a guaranteed recipe for disaster.

I suppose she was trying to force Casey to grow up, but boy did that backfire. You don't demand something from someone incapable of giving it. She KNEW, she Knew Casey didn't want her. This is on Cindy's head too.

That's just how I feel about it.


Well said Minga. ITA

[SaraSidle]

Thanks, didn't realize that he had gone to the media first. Talk about strange! I have a tendency not to believe him. His recollection is too detailed.



I'll never understand exactly why it is that G&C didn't just adopt Caylee once Cindy convinced Caylee to not place her for adoption. In fact, I just cannot seem to get past blaming them almost as much as Casey for what has happened to Caylee. Period.

Loretta I totally agree and I think it is Hindsight. I think they knew that Casey could not be responsible but waited to late to go to social work. How often has that happened..... lots. but not lead to this situation.......imo sara

[mu8shark]

I respectfull disagree. All the evidence in Caylee's trunk, the decomp in the back yard, Caseys's behavior during the time Caylee was missing. I don't see how any of the evidence points to a kidnapping. Not when all the evidence is in her trunk. Not only that but in June after we last see Caylee, we have Casey texting friends about the smell in the trunk, so she knew about the smell, then suddenly one day she texts Amy and says I got rid of the smell in the trunk. This is very telling. Cindy said it did not smell until the car was towed, Caseys texts say otherwise. Although the prosecution does not have to prove motive, juries love it and Casey had motive. She was looking around on missing childrens sites before the child went missing, a little like Scott Peterson saying he had lost his wife on Dec 9 and lo and behold she really did go missing two weeks later. How to explain that coincidence and of Casey looking up chloroform and the trunk is saturated with chloroform . One would have to assume someone stole Caseys comp and framed her, her phone and did all those texts, stole her car and got into the trunk, it just does not fly there is another kidnapper. I think the charges will stick. And then ask yourself if there was another kidnapper,, and Caylee really was missing for a month, why was Casey acting like it was party time. I also have to leave this Baez quote that I just saw because it is such a no brainer. ""My case looks extremely good if we find Caylee," Baez said. Duh, huh?

[SaraSidle]

Minga and apples&orange I do not disagree. I am not saying it will be absolutely decided as a kidnapping at the trial. #1 I have not idea how that will turn out, #2 I am just thinking of the defense that maybe be used. At this point even if Caylee is found defense could plead kidnapping. I know all about the evidence but remember there was evidence in other public crimes and he still went free. Also never think I do not blame the parents. There is a family dynamic and only the professionals with lots of background can figure. I was just giving my point of view and not blaming anyone. But I am starting to think there may be more than one person involved. Maybe. Personally all I want is Caylee home and has a funeral and her killer is put in jail whoever it is............sara IMO

[mu8shark]

Minga and apples&orange I do not disagree. I am not saying it will be absolutely decided as a kidnapping at the trial. #1 I have not idea how that will turn out, #2 I am just thinking of the defense that maybe be used. At this point even if Caylee is found defense could plead kidnapping. I know all about the evidence but remember there was evidence in other public crimes and he still went free. Also never think I do not blame the parents. There is a family dynamic and only the professionals with lots of background can figure. I was just giving my point of view and not blaming anyone. But I am starting to think there may be more than one person involved. Maybe. Personally all I want is Caylee home and has a funeral and her killer is put in jail whoever it is............sara IMO Well actually convictions after someone is indicted for murder is in the 90 per centile in most jurisdictions and sometimes higher which shows you that they don't indict with a hunch but with really solid evidence. The problem for the defense and the kidnapping theory is that they will need a real solid, valid theory of some sort, they can't believably get up before a jury and say we think she was kidnapped by someone else, we don't know how or who or when or where , this is is our theory. They have to have some foundation and with all the forensics , circumstanial evidence and demeanor evidence, I don't see it there, just my opinion.

[applesandorange]

Minga and apples&orange I do not disagree. I am not saying it will be absolutely decided as a kidnapping at the trial. #1 I have not idea how that will turn out, #2 I am just thinking of the defense that maybe be used. At this point even if Caylee is found defense could plead kidnapping. I know all about the evidence but remember there was evidence in other public crimes and he still went free. Also never think I do not blame the parents. There is a family dynamic and only the professionals with lots of background can figure. I was just giving my point of view and not blaming anyone. But I am starting to think there may be more than one person involved. Maybe. Personally all I want is Caylee home and has a funeral and her killer is put in jail whoever it is............sara IMO


I understand what you're saying. IMO kidnapping is the only thing the defense can say. That's what they've been saying all along. How could they change it now? I also think it is the weakest argument they can make. Who are they going to say took Caylee? Someone who isn't even real? Casey was out partying because she thought the kidnapper might be at the clubs? Chlorofrom and missing childrens sites were looked up on Casey's computer just because? There is decomp, chloroform, Caylee's hair with death bands and body fluid in the trunk because? I mean come on kidnapping? There is no way. I know this isn't your opinion and you are just saying what the defense might say. All I'm saying is they are going to look awful stupid saying that.

[mu8shark]

I understand what you're saying. IMO kidnapping is the only thing the defense can say. That's what they've been saying all along. How could they change it now? I also think it is the weakest argument they can make. Who are they going to say took Caylee? Someone who isn't even real? Casey was out partying because she thought the kidnapper might be at the clubs? Chlorofrom and missing childrens sites were looked up on Casey's computer just because? There is decomp, chloroform, Caylee's hair with death bands and body fluid in the trunk because? I mean come on kidnapping? There is no way. I know this isn't your opinion and you are just saying what the defense might say. All I'm saying is they are going to look awful stupid saying that.Which makes Baez's statement that if they find Caylee he thinks he has a good case all the more true, huh, because it is the only way he would have a case. :eek:

[lorettalockhorn]

Minga and apples&orange I do not disagree. I am not saying it will be absolutely decided as a kidnapping at the trial. #1 I have not idea how that will turn out, #2 I am just thinking of the defense that maybe be used. At this point even if Caylee is found defense could plead kidnapping. I know all about the evidence but remember there was evidence in other public crimes and he still went free. Also never think I do not blame the parents. There is a family dynamic and only the professionals with lots of background can figure. I was just giving my point of view and not blaming anyone. But I am starting to think there may be more than one person involved. Maybe. Personally all I want is Caylee home and has a funeral and her killer is put in jail whoever it is............sara IMO

Ya know, I can't help but think that maybe Casey did have a plan early on and did have an accomplice to stage a kidnapping, or whatever. Things went awry (or out of control) and Caylee ended up dead by Casey's hand.

[SaraSidle]

Ya know, I can't help but think that maybe Casey did have a plan early on and did have an accomplice to stage a kidnapping, or whatever. Things went awry (or out of control) and Caylee ended up dead by Casey's hand.

loretta, Mushark and Loretta, again I am not arguing I am sure most things said here are correct. Loretta we can look at both plans there is a predestined and accident. Now for me the only evidence for predestied is the cholrine and the sites on the internet. this is early in the case and kind of supports there was enogh there to make it the parents and used the pool choloride poisinong but that did not work out. I believe that was supposed to be the cause of Caylee's death but things went down hlll so I think something happened where she had to move the body to various places so something anyone can deal with in their mind........not me)



at this time the searches are based on the cell phone ping calls. Let us hope and pray that Caylee comss home soon dead or alive. imo sara

[samanthajane13]

I have a theory I'm gonna throw out...

Is it possible that Casey could have used the chloroform to mask or neutralize the scent of decomp on the trunk??

I'm not saying she didn't use it as a weapon to kill Caylee, but for the trunk to be saturated with it, she had to have poured it out or splashed it around, and why would she do that, unless she was using the strong scent to mask something??? It wouldn't have taken a TON of it to kill a tiny little thing like
Caylee. Unless she just poured it into the trunk to knock her out or kill her...

First Casey mentions the smell in the car, then she says it's gone.

HOW did she get rid of the scent???

Just a thought...

[Brainstorm]

I believe TES will resume their search in November. I actually e mailed them and got a response stating they are planning to resume in November. If anyone wants to read the e mail just message me and I will give it to you.AWESOME NEWS !!!

This case takes its toll on me too. No worries here Brainstorm. Let's hope Caylee is found soon.
I do want to apologize for being rude to anyone.OF COURSE it is reasonable to want to question anyone who may support, or think like, Casey.
My biggest problem with that is, CINDY is # 1 supporter and thats mind boggling enough and more immediate,than hunting anyone else that may think like them. Like, Im still wondering about LEE,myself.



I can't help but fault Cindy with a great degree of this tragedy. Casey comes in and says she's pregnant and doesn't want the child. At that point she (Casey) should have made her own decisions even though she was still a child. I suppose Cindy was so controlling Casey didn't dare do anything other than what Cindy demanded. I don't know if they are Catholic and an abortion would be out of the question so she HAD to admit it to Cindy. But if Cindy demanded that she have it, demanded that it would not be put up for adoption then at that point Cindy should have become responsible for Caylee in totality. She should not have demanded Casey ever mother this child. Casey could have walked free. She could have sponged off someone for the money to go to PR or she could have stripped for it, prostituted for it, whatever easy way she came by money. But Cindy should have kept Caylee for her to go...she should have adopted her from the very first. You DO NOT demand someone do your will. That's a guaranteed recipe for disaster.

I suppose she was trying to force Casey to grow up, but boy did that backfire. You don't demand something from someone incapable of giving it. She KNEW, she Knew Casey didn't want her. This is on Cindy's head too.

That's just how I feel about it.

ETA: I was typing while you were posting Loretta. I feel very strongly about this.

I completely agree,minga.

I have a theory I'm gonna throw out...

Is it possible that Casey could have used the chloroform to mask or neutralize the scent of decomp on the trunk??

I'm not saying she didn't use it as a weapon to kill Caylee, but for the trunk to be saturated with it, she had to have poured it out or splashed it around, and why would she do that, unless she was using the strong scent to mask something??? It wouldn't have taken a TON of it to kill a tiny little thing like
Caylee. Unless she just poured it into the trunk to knock her out or kill her...

First Casey mentions the smell in the car, then she says it's gone.

HOW did she get rid of the scent???

Just a thought...
Maybe she used the choroform to TRY to clean the car trunk,and temporarily
thought she had gotten RID of the problem(the odor) BUT when the chemical smell evaporated,she realized different, so abandoned the car,hoping it would be stolen,IMO.

[deputydi]

This guy sure waited a while to come forward but it could be valid I suppose, maybe he does not watch tv. But despite what Nancy says, even if both guys in the car say the story is true, they need to vet it, because people come out of the woodwork, sometimes for glory, sometimes just to be helpful and sometimes telling the truth but it would be great if they found something. I am a little miffed that Tim Miller let Cindy Anthony put him off the search, at least that is what Nancy says. I wonder if it is just what he said and it is not quite dry enough yet. Surely, he would not cancel a search because Cindy was not cooperating and mad at him. hope not. I know he is coming back Nov 8 seems like a long way off
You're right that some people come forward with made up statements just to get their name attached to a high profile case. Somehow, I think this guy's recollection has a ring of truth to it. My understanding is that he tried a couple of times to tell his story to LE and felt he was being ignored. That's why he contacted the media.

The fact that there are two of them (he didn't claim to be alone) and the detail he recalls lend some credibility to his story IMO. I'm not believing him 100% just yet. I'm waiting for LE to check him out further.

[One2Snoop]

NANCY GRACE

New Witness in Casey Anthony Case
Aired October 17, 2008 - 20:00:00 ET

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0810/17/ng.01.html

[deputydi]

Not only that but in June after we last see Caylee, we have Casey texting friends about the smell in the trunk, so she knew about the smell, then suddenly one day she texts Amy and says I got rid of the smell in the trunk. This is very telling. Cindy said it did not smell until the car was towed, Caseys texts say otherwise. Although the prosecution does not have to prove motive, juries love it and Casey had motive. She was looking around on missing childrens sites before the child went missing, a little like Scott Peterson saying he had lost his wife on Dec 9 and lo and behold she really did go missing two weeks later. How to explain that coincidence and of Casey looking up chloroform and the trunk is saturated with chloroform . One would have to assume someone stole Caseys comp and framed her, her phone and did all those texts, stole her car and got into the trunk, it just does not fly there is another kidnapper. I think the charges will stick. And then ask yourself if there was another kidnapper,, and Caylee really was missing for a month, why was Casey acting like it was party time. I also have to leave this Baez quote that I just saw because it is such a no brainer. ""My case looks extremely good if we find Caylee," Baez said. Duh, huh?
You may be right, but IMO Casey's only chance to avoid death or LWOP is to plead guilty to a lesser charge and tell where Caylee is.

Don't forget -- Casey's attorneys don't have to prove anything. It's the state's responsibility to prove that (1) Caylee is dead and (2) Casey did it. IMO that's not going to be a problem but I guess it's possible that Baez (or whoever her attorney is) can present enough reasonable doubt about #1 for a jury to acquit her. Don't forget -- if the state can't prove #1, the jury can't convict her of murder -- or any lesser charge like manslaughter.

[lorettalockhorn]

loretta, Mushark and Loretta, again I am not arguing I am sure most things said here are correct. Loretta we can look at both plans there is a predestined and accident. Now for me the only evidence for predestied is the cholrine and the sites on the internet. this is early in the case and kind of supports there was enogh there to make it the parents and used the pool choloride poisinong but that did not work out. I believe that was supposed to be the cause of Caylee's death but things went down hlll so I think something happened where she had to move the body to various places so something anyone can deal with in their mind........not me)



at this time the searches are based on the cell phone ping calls. Let us hope and pray that Caylee comss home soon dead or alive. imo sara

Morning CL!

Not sure about the chlorine, but re: the computer searches for chloroform, I wonder if Plan A was for the Anthonys to be knocked out while Caylee was abducted. If Casey had a co-conspirator, and (s)he backed out, maybe she had to go to Plan B, and use the drug to sedate Caylee and ODed her. So in a sense, it's premeditated murder and accidental, and aggravated abuse and manslaughter.

[lorettalockhorn]

You may be right, but IMO Casey's only chance to avoid death or LWOP is to plead guilty to a lesser charge and tell where Caylee is.

Don't forget -- Casey's attorneys don't have to prove anything. It's the state's responsibility to prove that (1) Caylee is dead and (2) Casey did it. IMO that's not going to be a problem but I guess it's possible that Baez (or whoever her attorney is) can present enough reasonable doubt about #1 for a jury to acquit her. Don't forget -- if the state can't prove #1, the jury can't convict her of murder -- or any lesser charge like manslaughter.

Interesting that on NG last night, it was pointed out that if Casey is found guilty, and the trial goes to the penalty phase, the standard for capital punishment is to prove the amount of suffering that Caylee endured. Without a body or cause of death, that will be difficult to prove beyond a reasonable doubt.

[minga]

Interesting that on NG last night, it was pointed out that if Casey is found guilty, and the trial goes to the penalty phase, the standard for capital punishment is to prove the amount of suffering that Caylee endured. Without a body or cause of death, that will be difficult to prove beyond a reasonable doubt.


In a way that's very stupid. Losing one's life (everything you have) at the hands of someone so callous and indifferent would have to be great suffering. Losing's one's life at the hands of someone one trusted explicitly would have to be great suffering. How is suffering judged? Physical, mental, emotional? They can all be extreme. Terror is suffering, provided she knew something wasn't right and Mommy was angry.

I find that to be something that would be difficult to be proven in many cases. I think the application of that rule should be different for children murdered by the very one who is "supposed" to be the one who protects and loves you, your parent.

[lorettalockhorn]

In a way that's very stupid. Losing one's life (everything you have) at the hands of someone so callous and indifferent would have to be great suffering. Losing's one's life at the hands of someone one trusted explicitly would have to be great suffering. How is suffering judged? Physical, mental, emotional? They can all be extreme. Terror is suffering, provided she knew something wasn't right and Mommy was angry.

I find that to be something that would be difficult to be proven in many cases. I think the application of that rule should be different for children murdered by the very one who is "supposed" to be the one who protects and loves you, your parent.

Oh, I hear you. For a child to look into the eyes of the person who should be the most responsible caring individual in her life as she dies would instill the cruelest suffering; fear beyond understanding. But I'll assume the standard applies to the difference between the physical pain/shock of a slow death after being tortured and beaten and simply being put to sleep (for instance). Maybe this is part of what drives Tim Miller to continue searching.

Sometimes I wonder about all the adorable pix of Caylee (the ones that Casey is in). She looks so happy. They both do. It's hard not to wonder if Caylee is mugging for the photographer, and if she really enjoyed her mother. Or was she just happy to have Casey's attention, even if it was only for the time it takes to snap a picture?

[Redmama]

In a way that's very stupid. Losing one's life (everything you have) at the hands of someone so callous and indifferent would have to be great suffering. Losing's one's life at the hands of someone one trusted explicitly would have to be great suffering. How is suffering judged? Physical, mental, emotional? They can all be extreme. Terror is suffering, provided she knew something wasn't right and Mommy was angry.

I find that to be something that would be difficult to be proven in many cases. I think the application of that rule should be different for children murdered by the very one who is "supposed" to be the one who protects and loves you, your parent.

Such a sad thought - this little girl had to be thinking why is my mommy doing this to me.

[Sea Zephyr]

minga and Redmama, I hope that somehow Caylee didn't see it coming, that she was asleep when it happened because you're right, the terror and the confusion when you're hurt by a parent you love must deeply traumatize a child emotionally and psychologically. I wonder if some terrible abuse happened to Casey when she was a child, except she didn't die physically, only emotionally.

[One2Snoop]

AWESOME NEWS !!!


I do want to apologize for being rude to anyone.OF COURSE it is reasonable to want to question anyone who may support, or think like, Casey.
My biggest problem with that is, CINDY is # 1 supporter and thats mind boggling enough and more immediate,than hunting anyone else that may think like them. Like, Im still wondering about LEE,myself.





I completely agree,minga.


Maybe she used the choroform to TRY to clean the car trunk,and temporarily
thought she had gotten RID of the problem(the odor) BUT when the chemical smell evaporated,she realized different, so abandoned the car,hoping it would be stolen,IMO.

Good thought but unfortunately we don't know for sure who searched on the computer nor do we know for sure if the chloroform was actually purchased by Casey. Maybe George or Cindy bought it to try and cover up the smell? Just one of those things LE has chosen not to reveal all the details on unfortunately.

I'm sure it will help tie some of the pieces together in this saga, but how - only trial time will tell, IMO.

[SaraSidle]

Oh, I hear you. For a child to look into the eyes of the person who should be the most responsible caring individual in her life as she dies would instill the cruelest suffering; fear beyond understanding. But I'll assume the standard applies to the difference between the physical pain/shock of a slow death after being tortured and beaten and simply being put to sleep (for instance). Maybe this is part of what drives Tim Miller to continue searching.

Sometimes I wonder about all the adorable pix of Caylee (the ones that Casey is in). She looks so happy. They both do. It's hard not to wonder if Caylee is mugging for the photographer, and if she really enjoyed her mother. Or was she just happy to have Casey's attention, even if it was only for the time it takes to snap a picture?

Nice post Loretta ITA

[SaraSidle]

minga and Redmama, I hope that somehow Caylee didn't see it coming, that she was asleep when it happened because you're right, the terror and the confusion when you're hurt by a parent you love must deeply traumatize a child emotionally and psychologically. I wonder if some terrible abuse happened to Casey when she was a child, except she didn't die physically, only emotionally.

Oh my that has to be our best thought Sea Zephyr. I never thought Caylee was aware,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,sara

[Sea Zephyr]

Why would someone use cholorform to clean a trunk? Can chloroform be used as a cleaning agent? I thought it was only used as a drug.

[samanthajane13]

"Why would someone use cholorform to clean a trunk? Can chloroform be used as a cleaning agent? I thought it was only used as a drug."

It IS a drug, but it has a VERY STRONG SCENT if I'm correct.

As I said-maybe it WAS used to drug Caylee, but when she died, and began to decompose, Casey figured that the scent of the chloroform would cover the decomp scent if she splashed enough around inside the trunk.

[samanthajane13]

From Answers.com-

Dictionary:chloroform
(klôr'ə-fôrm', klōr'-)

n.

A clear, colorless, heavy, sweet-smelling liquid, CHCl3, used in refrigerants, propellants, and resins, as a solvent, and sometimes as an anesthetic. Chloroform, once widely used in human and veterinary surgery, has generally been replaced by less toxic, more easily controlled agents.

Columbia Encyclopedia: chloroform
(klôr'əfôrm) or trichloromethane (trī'klôrōmĕth'ān) , CHCl3, volatile, colorless, nonflammable liquid that has a sweetish taste and a somewhat pungent odor; it boils at 61.7°C. It dissolves freely in ethanol and ether but does not mix with water. Chloroform is produced by reaction of chlorine with ethanol and by the reduction of carbon tetrachloride with moist iron. It was once used as a general anesthetic in surgery but has been replaced by less toxic, safer anesthetics, such as ether. Chemically, it is employed as a solvent for fats, alkaloids, iodine, and other substances. When exposed to sunlight and air it reacts to form phosgene, a poisonous gas.

Veterinary Dictionary: chloroform

CHCl3; a liquid with an ethereal odor and sweet taste, used as a solvent; once used widely as an inhalation anesthetic and analgesic, and as an antitussive, carminative and counterirritant. An effective but dangerous anesthetic used commonly at one time especially in horses. Requires a proper mask. Prolonged anesthesia often results in severe liver damage.

http://www.answers.com/topic/chloroform

Being sweet-smelling, it would have been easier to get Caylee to smell it, than if it had a different scent...I think. I would think the sweet scent would act as a neutralizer to the putrid scent of decomp.

[Eagle1]

I'm not sure where this would go in the main part of the JBR forum so I'll put it here for starters.

On Nancy Grace, Friday night the 17th I think, a guy said he and his buddy were trolling for scrap metal on that road and saw a woman who resembles Casey coming out of the woods carrying a shovel and a bag.

She wore red sunglasses and a large straw hat. There were some old railroad tracks, and old tires to use as stepping stones. Evidently for when there would be standing water. The witness said she nearly knocked her hat off getting the shovel and bag into the open trunk.

And an extremely-well-dressed man was standing at the car waiting for her. A lawyer, not Baez??????

[Brainstorm]

Good thought but unfortunately we don't know for sure who searched on the computer nor do we know for sure if the chloroform was actually purchased by Casey. Maybe George or Cindy bought it to try and cover up the smell? Just one of those things LE has chosen not to reveal all the details on unfortunately.

I'm sure it will help tie some of the pieces together in this saga, but how - only trial time will tell, IMO.

Youre right. TIME WILL TELL.

Thanks samantha,for the info. ......I wasnt implying that chloroform IS a cleaning agent, JUST that maybe SHE THOUGHT(or whoever) that it would MASK the odor,or even remove it.
imoo

[samanthajane13]

"Thanks samantha,for the info. ......I wasnt implying that chloroform IS a cleaning agent, JUST that maybe SHE THOUGHT(or whoever) that it would MASK the odor,or even remove it.
imoo"

Yeah-that's what I figured, too.

We know she did her homework on chloroform, and finding that it has a sweet-pleasant scent probably prompted her to use it on Caylee in the first place, and when the car started to smell, she probably figured she's use it to cover up what she did.

She ISN'T STUPID, but on some levels she's clueless.

Just look at the ways that people try to fool drug sniffing dogs. They pack the drugs in anything from garlic to coffee beans and anything else they can get their hands on, but the dogs still find the drugs.

I'm sure that if a cadaver dog was turn onto the car, it'd react in a positive manner when it got to the trunk.

THERE IS NO PERFECT CRIME, Casey...sux to be you.:D

[deputydi]

Youre right. TIME WILL TELL.

Thanks samantha,for the info. ......I wasnt implying that chloroform IS a cleaning agent, JUST that maybe SHE THOUGHT(or whoever) that it would MASK the odor,or even remove it.
imoo
It is my understanding that chloroform has a very distinct odor. Since it is almost impossible to purchase legally, and anyone familiar with the scent would recognize it immediately, it would have been a lot smarter for her to use full strength PineSol or something similar if masking the smell is what "someone" obtained the chloroform for. The PineSol would have been easier to obtain and explain.

[lorettalockhorn]

Apparently chloroform was once an ingredient of cleaning agents/spot removers. But you have to wonder if its use is archaic, why would Casey even know about it? It was replaced in surgery many years ago as an anesthetic, (even before ether was replaced) so again, you have to wonder why she would use it to put Caylee out instead of more readily available street drugs.

Other uses are as a dry cleaning agent to remove spots

http://www.npi.gov.au/database/substance-info/profiles/23.html

(This is a citation from the Australian government, but surely the same standards apply.)

[samanthajane13]

"Apparently chloroform was once an ingredient of cleaning agents/spot removers. But you have to wonder if its use is archaic, why would Casey even know about it?"

Not being a smart-azz, but if you could find that link, so could Casey.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to use a search engine, as we've seen in many other cases where the suspects weren't exactly the sharpest knives in the drawer...and as I said-THIS GIRL AIN'T STUPID!...even if she thinks WE are.

Sociopaths are usually pretty damned slick, but cover it well with the "WHO, ME?" attitude.

Or maybe she just gave it a shot! Stranger things have happened.:D

[Sea Zephyr]

When the guy on NG said he saw a well-dressed man standing outside the car, I immediately thought of Lee. And I think someone mentioned that Lee dresses up nicely for work.

[applesandorange]

"Apparently chloroform was once an ingredient of cleaning agents/spot removers. But you have to wonder if its use is archaic, why would Casey even know about it?"

Not being a smart-azz, but if you could find that link, so could Casey.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to use a search engine, as we've seen in many other cases where the suspects weren't exactly the sharpest knives in the drawer...and as I said-THIS GIRL AIN'T STUPID!...even if she thinks WE are.

Sociopaths are usually pretty damned slick, but cover it well with the "WHO, ME?" attitude.

Or maybe she just gave it a shot! Stranger things have happened.:D

I thought I heard it mentioned somewhere I think on NG and I think from LP that kids were using Chloroform to get high. It was said that they sniff the fumes. We all know Casey was into drugs. She probably knew all about chloroform and what it could do, would do etc....

[lorettalockhorn]

"Apparently chloroform was once an ingredient of cleaning agents/spot removers. But you have to wonder if its use is archaic, why would Casey even know about it?"

Not being a smart-azz, but if you could find that link, so could Casey.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to use a search engine, as we've seen in many other cases where the suspects weren't exactly the sharpest knives in the drawer...and as I said-THIS GIRL AIN'T STUPID!...even if she thinks WE are.

Sociopaths are usually pretty damned slick, but cover it well with the "WHO, ME?" attitude.

Or maybe she just gave it a shot! Stranger things have happened.:D


Not being a smart-azz, but why wouldn't she just use some other stinky cleaner? Like energine, for instance; smells like naphtha, removes spots and covers odors by virtue of its stinkiness. (Pardon that uber scientific word. :hat: )

[samanthajane13]

IDK-maybe because she had it on hand from trying to sedate Caylee...and knew it had a strong scent???

Maybe she used it more than once on Caylee, and just kept the crap in the trunk of the car.

If Cindy gave her a hard time about baby sitting, chloroform may have been her "baby-sitter" of choice for quite some time, so she may have just kept it on hand in a convenient place.

I'm just speculating-as we all are.

This chick is WEIRD-who knows WHAT passed for "normal" behavior for her.

I now that most moms that I hang out with don't forge checks, clean out friends' checking accounts, lie like cheap rugs, OR leave their 2 yr. old child on a sitter's porch...and if their kids go missing for 5 minutes, they're scouring the neighborhood for them, AND it they can't find them, they're calling the cops immediately.

[lorettalockhorn]

I thought I heard it mentioned somewhere I think on NG and I think from LP that kids were using Chloroform to get high. It was said that they sniff the fumes. We all know Casey was into drugs. She probably knew all about chloroform and what it could do, would do etc....

Didn't know that (my street cred sucks!). If chloroform is on the streets, that's going to make it that much tougher for LE to tie Casey to the purchase.

And just curious, but does anyone know if there has been an effort to account for expenditures made with the thousands that Casey stole? Did she always use cash? Have a checking account? Still wonder too if she ever filed an income tax return. If she didn't and wasn't receiving W4s, shouldn't that have been a clue to G&C that she wasn't working and didn't actually need a babysitter?

[lorettalockhorn]

IDK-maybe because she had it on hand from trying to sedate Caylee...and knew it had a strong scent???

Maybe she used it more than once on Caylee, and just kept the crap in the trunk of the car.

If Cindy gave her a hard time about baby sitting, chloroform may have been her "baby-sitter" of choice for quite some time, so she may have just kept it on hand in a convenient place.

I'm just speculating-as we all are.

This chick is WEIRD-who knows WHAT passed for "normal" behavior for her.

I now that most moms that I hang out with don't forge checks, clean out friends' checking accounts, lie like cheap rugs, OR leave their 2 yr. old child on a sitter's porch...and if their kids go missing for 5 minutes, they're scouring the neighborhood for them, AND it they can't find them, they're calling the cops immediately.

Don't get me wrong, I don't put it past Casey to have drugged Caylee instead of using a babysitter, it just seems like chloroform would be the last resort when it comes to which drug to use. Also, I was specifically wondering about why she would choose chloroform specifically for a cleaner. Maybe she googled street+drugs+spot+remover+noxious+masking+odor. And ludes and Dilaudid didn't pop up!

[Sea Zephyr]

A lot is being made of the chloroform, and who knows how she used it, but it is possible that she only used it to get high and had some hidden in the trunk at one time causing the smell.

[samanthajane13]

"Maybe she googled street+drugs+spot+remover+noxious+masking+odor. And ludes and Dilaudid didn't pop up!"

OMG!!!

ROTFLMAOTIPIMP!!!

You're TOO FUNNY, Loretta...

[Brainstorm]

IDK-maybe because she had it on hand from trying to sedate Caylee...and knew it had a strong scent???

Maybe she used it more than once on Caylee, and just kept the crap in the trunk of the car.

If Cindy gave her a hard time about baby sitting, chloroform may have been her "baby-sitter" of choice for quite some time, so she may have just kept it on hand in a convenient place.

I'm just speculating-as we all are.

This chick is WEIRD-who knows WHAT passed for "normal" behavior for her.

I now that most moms that I hang out with don't forge checks, clean out friends' checking accounts, lie like cheap rugs, OR leave their 2 yr. old child on a sitter's porch...and if their kids go missing for 5 minutes, they're scouring the neighborhood for them, AND it they can't find them, they're calling the cops immediately.

I am guessing, BUT I have been thinking exactly the same thing, since I heard about the chloroform.........That she had done this, maybe many times before.That Caylee may have slept more than one time, in the trunk of that car. She couldnt leave her in the backseat,where someone would see her. SO...........where was she during those partying nights,?? IMO, probably asleep in the trunk, IMO.Cause we already know, there was no babysitter.
moo

[samanthajane13]

"Cause we already know, there was no babysitter."

LOL!!!

But didn't you hear???

Caylee does have a nanny, and her name is Zenaida!!!

Yeah-right, Casey.

TRY AGAIN!!!!

[Sea Zephyr]

If Casey was cholorforming Caylee and leaving in her the trunk, Caylee could have died by accident in there. If she was was in the trunk during the daytime, the trunk could have gotten pretty hot, hot enough to kill her, or if Casey drove around with Caylee sedated in the trunk, Caylee could have been injured. Whatever the circumstances, Casey would still be responsible for her death.

[lorettalockhorn]

A lot is being made of the chloroform, and who knows how she used it, but it is possible that she only used it to get high and had some hidden in the trunk at one time causing the smell.

True dat. I hope LE has scads of evidence that we don't know about. Because you know that a jury is going to be asking the same questions that we do.

[deputydi]

A lot is being made of the chloroform, and who knows how she used it, but it is possible that she only used it to get high and had some hidden in the trunk at one time causing the smell.
I can't find any reference to chloroform being used to get high and I've never heard of it being a street drug. I am curious as to how Casey obtained it.

In my experience, it is difficult, at best, to purchase chloroform as an individual. If you represent a school, university, or business/laboratory that legitimately uses this substance, you can shop at chemical supply sites such as science.com. But as an unlicensed, uninsured individual the best bet you have for the purchase of this Department of Justice (DOJ) and Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) restricted substance is through a farm supply company. Perhaps there are farm supply retail stores in outlying areas in the Mid West that might still have an old bottle or two laying around. You might also try retail taxidermy supply stores as it can be used to humanely euthanise mounting specimens.

Keep in mind, though, that since the government restricts the purchase of chloroform to insure that it is used only for legitimate purposes, it might be tough to you get your hands on it. Even if you do, the penalty for possession in a federal court is severe! Ergo, if you get some, use it wisely and for the sweet love of merciful Christ, don't get caught!

Also, don't mention me or this answer when you get caught. I did NOT aid or abet you in your attempt to drug and kidnap Hannah Montana, got it?

Seriously, chloroform has few legitimate uses. You don't need it and you shouldn't be using it. So, be careful.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Where_you_can_buy_chloroform

[One2Snoop]

http://i38.tinypic.com/54cffr.jpg

This is a pic taken from Ricardo Morales Facebook. Ricardo used to be Casey's boyfriend.

[Sea Zephyr]

Whoaaaa! That is so creepy!! Did you find that yourself?

[lorettalockhorn]

I can't find any reference to chloroform being used to get high and I've never heard of it being a street drug. I am curious as to how Casey obtained it.

Found this citation:

Commonly abused commercial productsAdhesives: Model airplane glue, rubber cement, household glue.Aerosols: Spray paint, hair spray, air freshener, deodorant,fabric protector.Anesthetics: Nitrous oxide, ether, chloroform.Cleaning agents: Dry cleaning fluid, spot remover, degreaser.Food products: Vegetable cooking spray, “whippets”(nitrous oxide).Gases: Nitrous oxide, butane, propane, helium.Solvents and gases: Nail polish remover, paint thinner, typing cor-rection fluid and thinner, toxic markers, pure toluene, toluol, cigarlighter fluid, gasoline.Source: National Inhalant Prevention Coalition.


http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:95CPdgGh0qgJ:www.streetdrugs.org/pdf/inhalants.pdf+street+drugs+chloroform&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=9&gl=us

I want to know how and where she purchased it too.

[lorettalockhorn]

http://i38.tinypic.com/54cffr.jpg

This is a pic taken from Ricardo Morales Facebook. Ricardo used to be Casey's boyfriend.

hmmm

[One2Snoop]

Whoaaaa! That is so creepy!! Did you find that yourself?

No I didn't find it - I got it off another website. ETA: It was posted there Sept 5th, 2008

[applesandorange]

No I didn't find it - I got it off another website. ETA: It was posted there Sept 5th, 2008


That's just weird. Honestly before this case I never even heard of chloroform. Now to find out people use it to get high and it is used as internet jokes. Where the heck have I been? Seriously I'm only 28. Things really have changed in the 10 years since I've been in high school.

[grneyes]

http://i38.tinypic.com/54cffr.jpg

This is a pic taken from Ricardo Morales Facebook. Ricardo used to be Casey's boyfriend.

Maybe that is what gave Casey the idea to use it....

[applesandorange]

Found this citation:

Commonly abused commercial productsAdhesives: Model airplane glue, rubber cement, household glue.Aerosols: Spray paint, hair spray, air freshener, deodorant,fabric protector.Anesthetics: Nitrous oxide, ether, chloroform.Cleaning agents: Dry cleaning fluid, spot remover, degreaser.Food products: Vegetable cooking spray, “whippets”(nitrous oxide).Gases: Nitrous oxide, butane, propane, helium.Solvents and gases: Nail polish remover, paint thinner, typing cor-rection fluid and thinner, toxic markers, pure toluene, toluol, cigarlighter fluid, gasoline.Source: National Inhalant Prevention Coalition.


http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:95CPdgGh0qgJ:www.streetdrugs.org/pdf/inhalants.pdf+street+drugs+chloroform&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=9&gl=us

I want to know how and where she purchased it too.


Thanks for finding this Loretta. :beer: I knew I heard it somewhere but wasn't sure if it was true or not because I personally have never heard of people getting high off of it before.

[SaraSidle]

You know we need to keep in mind that Casey was going to have Amy move into her house and her parents move out. Was the chloroform going to help? I know it is used with pools???????????? IMO sara

[One2Snoop]

Just a refresher....

Chloroform Found In Casey Anthony's Car

By AMY L. EDWARDS and BIANCA PRIETO
Orlando Sentinel


Published: Thursday, September 4, 2008 at 7:21 a.m.
Last Modified: Thursday, September 4, 2008 at 3:54 p.m.

snip
The role of the chloroform in Caylee's disappearance was not clear Wednesday. However, there is evidence showing that Casey Anthony may have been researching the chemical on the Internet, sources said.

Chloroform has been depicted in movies and on television when a person uses a rag soaked in the liquid to cover the mouth and nose of another, making the victim lose consciousness. A person can die if too much of the chemical is inhaled. Chloroform also is the byproduct of contact between chlorine used in swimming pools and skin, sweat or urine. Commercially, it is used in refrigeration.

snip
http://www.theledger.com/article/20080904/NEWS/809040246

[applesandorange]

You know we need to keep in mind that Casey was going to have Amy move into her house and her parents move out. Was the chloroform going to help? I know it is used with pools???????????? IMO sara


I do think she was setting her dad up for something because of the lie about him having a stroke. Maybe she was going to use chloroform to get rid of her dad and make some excuse to Amy that her mom is so distraught over her dad dying that she needs to stay living with her. She would probably talk Cindy into letting Amy move in to help with bills. So once again Casey would be living off of other people. Maybe with Caylee and her dad being gone she could have her cake and eat it too. George seems like he was the only parent who ever questioned Casey. Cindy just enabled her. With George and Caylee gone Casey could party and live however she wanted. Anything she would do would be fine by Cindy. Poor Amy would be the one being taken advantage of while Casey would be princess. JMO

[SaraSidle]

I do think she was setting her dad up for something because of the lie about him having a stroke. Maybe she was going to use chloroform to get rid of her dad and make some excuse to Amy that her mom is so distraught over her dad dying that she needs to stay living with her. She would probably talk Cindy into letting Amy move in to help with bills. So once again Casey would be living off of other people. Maybe with Caylee and her dad being gone she could have her cake and eat it too. George seems like he was the only parent who ever questioned Casey. Cindy just enabled her. With George and Caylee gone Casey could party and live however she wanted. Anything she would do would be fine by Cindy. Poor Amy would be the one being taken advantage of while Casey would be princess. JMO

You know this is an excellent post and you may be very close to the truth. I know she mentioned to Amy somewhere that they were going to move into an apartment but I totally forgot the stroke thing. this is why I think Caylee's death was an accident. I think Mom and Dad were supposed to be first. Lots of chlorofrom on hand just for a baby 3 yr old. sweet caylee

[One2Snoop]

I do think she was setting her dad up for something because of the lie about him having a stroke. Maybe she was going to use chloroform to get rid of her dad and make some excuse to Amy that her mom is so distraught over her dad dying that she needs to stay living with her. She would probably talk Cindy into letting Amy move in to help with bills. So once again Casey would be living off of other people. Maybe with Caylee and her dad being gone she could have her cake and eat it too. George seems like he was the only parent who ever questioned Casey. Cindy just enabled her. With George and Caylee gone Casey could party and live however she wanted. Anything she would do would be fine by Cindy. Poor Amy would be the one being taken advantage of while Casey would be princess. JMO

Casey's grandfather (Cindy's dad) had a stroke. I don't remember if someone posted here or I read it elsewhere but there always seems to be a thread a truth in the things Casey says - its just that the circumstances don't belong to the right people. For example the stroke was really her grandfather not her dad. Now if we can just figure out this nanny thing and where Caylee is the case will be solved.

I know, I'm dreamin' LOL ;)

[Sea Zephyr]

Can someone fill me in? Sorry, I haven't been following the story as closely as some of you. When did she say her father had had a stroke? Who was she talking to?

[One2Snoop]

Can someone fill me in? Sorry, I haven't been following the story as closely as some of you. When did she say her father had had a stroke? Who was she talking to?

Casey was supposed to make a trip to Jacksonville with Amy so Amy could find a new car (she totaled hers). Casey texted Amy and said she couldn't go because her dad had a stroke. I'll see if I can find the specific text message that relates to this.

[applesandorange]

Can someone fill me in? Sorry, I haven't been following the story as closely as some of you. When did she say her father had had a stroke? Who was she talking to?


I believe she was talking to Amy. They had plans or Casey and Amy were supposed to do something and Casey cancelled saying she was in the hospital with her dad because he had a stroke. I think that's right. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[applesandorange]

Casey's grandfather (Cindy's dad) had a stroke. I don't remember if someone posted here or I read it elsewhere but there always seems to be a thread a truth in the things Casey says - its just that the circumstances don't belong to the right people. For example the stroke was really her grandfather not her dad. Now if we can just figure out this nanny thing and where Caylee is the case will be solved.

I know, I'm dreamin' LOL ;)

You're right! I didn't even put two and two together on that. Good thinking!

[One2Snoop]

Here's the post I made regarding Amy/Casey's conversation regarding her dad's stroke - note the dates. I do believe Casey's grandfather had his stroke long before this date - not sure but I'll see if I can dig up the info....

Text messages sent to Amy Huizenga from Casey Anthony: June 12-13

Last Edited: Wednesday, 01 Oct 2008, 3:19 PM EDT
Created: Wednesday, 01 Oct 2008, 3:19 PM EDT

http://i35.tinypic.com/14l6k91.jpg

Text messages sent to Amy Huizenga from Casey Anthony: May 15
Text messages sent to Amy Huizenga from Casey Anthony: May 4
Text messages sent to Amy Huizenga from Casey Anthony: May 2-3
Text messages sent to Amy Huizenga from Casey Anthony: May 16-17
Text messages sent to Amy Huizenga from Casey Anthony: June 12-13

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=7555600&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.2.1

[applesandorange]

You know this is an excellent post and you may be very close to the truth. I know she mentioned to Amy somewhere that they were going to move into an apartment but I totally forgot the stroke thing. this is why I think Caylee's death was an accident. I think Mom and Dad were supposed to be first. Lots of chlorofrom on hand just for a baby 3 yr old. sweet caylee

Thanks. I agree I think her parents or atleast one of them were a target. Do we know exactly how much chloroform there was? I only ask because everyone is talking like there is this abundant amount but IIRC it was said that even a rag with chloroform on it and left in the trunk would have created enough fumes to take away all the oxygen. Something about the way it works is by taking away oxygen. I really don't think she would have had to spill it or splash it around to get the results that were in the trunk. It could have been a rag with it on. JMO.

[applesandorange]

Casey was supposed to make a trip to Jacksonville with Amy so Amy could find a new car (she totaled hers). Casey texted Amy and said she couldn't go because her dad had a stroke. I'll see if I can find the specific text message that relates to this.


Yes that is the way it was. You have a better memory than I do :beer:

[One2Snoop]

Thanks. I agree I think her parents or atleast one of them were a target. Do we know exactly how much chloroform there was? I only ask because everyone is talking like there is this abundant amount but IIRC it was said that even a rag with chloroform on it and left in the trunk would have created enough fumes to take away all the oxygen. Something about the way it works is by taking away oxygen. I really don't think she would have had to spill it or splash it around to get the results that were in the trunk. It could have been a rag with it on. JMO.

It could also be a mixture of the following - hot, dead body in the trunk ( sorry for the gross description but....) Maybe it wasn't actually chloroform in the truest form - I can see why people have come to the conclusion that little Caylee may have originally drowned in the swimming pool - guess we won't know that until trial time unfortunately.

Chloroform also is the byproduct of contact between chlorine used in swimming pools and skin, sweat or urine.

[One2Snoop]

Yes that is the way it was. You have a better memory than I do :beer:

Hah LOL - only on a good day. :beer:

[applesandorange]

It could also be a mixture of the following - hot, dead body in the trunk ( sorry for the gross description but....) Maybe it wasn't actually chloroform in the truest form - I can see why people have come to the conclusion that little Caylee may have originally drowned in the swimming pool - guess we won't know that until trial time unfortunately.

Chloroform also is the byproduct of contact between chlorine used in swimming pools and skin, sweat or urine.


You are correct that chloroform can be created by that but again IIRC it was stated that the chloroform in the trunk was in the truest form and was not made by any chemical reactions. I know I heard this on NG. I wish I had the transcript. I hate going by memory because there is so much to this case that finding exactly where it was said is difficult. You are so good at that. I don't see how you do it.

[applesandorange]

Local Chemist Calls Chloroform In Anthony's Car 'Definitive'

Sources with knowledge of the investigation told WESH 2 that air samples from Casey Anthony's car came back positive for vaporized chloroform.

"I think it's as significant or more significant than finding decomposition products," chemist Jeff Flowers said.

Flowers has testified in state and federal court as an expert and said positive tests for vaporized chloroform mean those results could not have come from cleaning products, human body fluids or a mixture of anything else. Flowers said it had to have been pure chloroform.

"It could not have come from a chemical reaction in the trunk. It's impossible. That solvent could knock out the driver of the car. It's a very dangerous thing to have that material in your car," Flowers said.

He also said that these kinds of tests to detect vaporized chloroform are very common and admissible in court.

"I can name 30 labs in Florida that are absolutely scientifically inrefutable on that test. It's a very common test," Flowers said.

Casey Anthony's attorney, Jose Baez, was asked about the positive chloroform test results on Thursday.

"I don't comment on any evidence I have not seen," he said.

Orange County investigators said they are waiting for more test results.

Investigators said they would love to talk to Casey Anthony again and find out what happened to Caylee. Without that, they said, the scientific evidence is so important because it's not based on someone's opinion or memory.

Orange County Sheriff Kevin Beary spoke for all his investigators who've put in thousands of hours in the search for Caylee, and said that regardless of if Caylee is alive or has passed away, they need to find her.

Since mother Casey Anthony has said she does not know where her daughter is, top investigators said scientific evidence is playing a crucial part in the search for Caylee.

“It's not subjective. It's not someone's opinion or recollection. That's why scientific evidence is so important to us," Chief Ron Stucker said.

If chloroform was indeed in Casey Anthony's car in high concentrations, Flowers said it will be very difficult to explain how the hazardous chemical that cannot be purchased over the counter may have been in her car.

Tests are being conducted in at least two places: the FBI lab in Quantico, Virginia and also the so-called, "Body Farm," a forensic testing lab at the University of Tennessee.

WOO HOO!! I found it!! I'm proud of me ;)

[SaraSidle]

You are correct that chloroform can be created by that but again IIRC it was stated that the chloroform in the trunk was in the truest form and was not made by any chemical reactions. I know I heard this on NG. I wish I had the transcript. I hate going by memory because there is so much to this case that finding exactly where it was said is difficult. You are so good at that. I don't see how you do it.

applesand orange and One2Snoop I think this is info that we will not be privy too. I mean it was enough to kill mom and dad. It is used in pools. And poor baby Caylee probably had more than enough. It is used in movies all the time to knock out someone... I wish we could find Caylee IMO

[SaraSidle]

Local Chemist Calls Chloroform In Anthony's Car 'Definitive'

Sources with knowledge of the investigation told WESH 2 that air samples from Casey Anthony's car came back positive for vaporized chloroform.

"I think it's as significant or more significant than finding decomposition products," chemist Jeff Flowers said.

Flowers has testified in state and federal court as an expert and said positive tests for vaporized chloroform mean those results could not have come from cleaning products, human body fluids or a mixture of anything else. Flowers said it had to have been pure chloroform.

"It could not have come from a chemical reaction in the trunk. It's impossible. That solvent could knock out the driver of the car. It's a very dangerous thing to have that material in your car," Flowers said.

He also said that these kinds of tests to detect vaporized chloroform are very common and admissible in court.

"I can name 30 labs in Florida that are absolutely scientifically inrefutable on that test. It's a very common test," Flowers said.

Casey Anthony's attorney, Jose Baez, was asked about the positive chloroform test results on Thursday.

"I don't comment on any evidence I have not seen," he said.

Orange County investigators said they are waiting for more test results.

Investigators said they would love to talk to Casey Anthony again and find out what happened to Caylee. Without that, they said, the scientific evidence is so important because it's not based on someone's opinion or memory.

Orange County Sheriff Kevin Beary spoke for all his investigators who've put in thousands of hours in the search for Caylee, and said that regardless of if Caylee is alive or has passed away, they need to find her.

Since mother Casey Anthony has said she does not know where her daughter is, top investigators said scientific evidence is playing a crucial part in the search for Caylee.

“It's not subjective. It's not someone's opinion or recollection. That's why scientific evidence is so important to us," Chief Ron Stucker said.

If chloroform was indeed in Casey Anthony's car in high concentrations, Flowers said it will be very difficult to explain how the hazardous chemical that cannot be purchased over the counter may have been in her car.

Tests are being conducted in at least two places: the FBI lab in Quantico, Virginia and also the so-called, "Body Farm," a forensic testing lab at the University of Tennessee.

WOO HOO!! I found it!! I'm proud of me ;)

LOL applesandorange I am incredibly proud of you. I could never use my mind in that way. You have outdone me. and added to my theory. IMO

[SaraSidle]

Hah LOL - only on a good day. :beer:

I completely agree with applesandorange. too bad you are not a detective.

[lorettalockhorn]

You know we need to keep in mind that Casey was going to have Amy move into her house and her parents move out. Was the chloroform going to help? I know it is used with pools???????????? IMO sara

We have never used chloroform in our pool. It's never been suggested to use choroform for any purpose.

O2S, I noticed that Casey texted Amy that George almost had a stroke. Almost? That's a new one on me. :confused:

[SaraSidle]

We have never used chloroform in our pool. It's never been suggested to use choroform for any purpose.

O2S, I noticed that Casey texted Amy that George almost had a stroke. Almost? That's a new one on me. :confused:

loretta I will still swim in your pool.. the chloroform is supposed to be a cleaning agent also...........IMO

[applesandorange]

LOL applesandorange I am incredibly proud of you. I could never use my mind in that way. You have outdone me. and added to my theory. IMO


LoL! Thanks I think haha. Not trying to outdo anyone. Just trying to get to the truth. You know you being so confident in your theory is really starting to make me believe it too.

[applesandorange]

We have never used chloroform in our pool. It's never been suggested to use choroform for any purpose.

O2S, I noticed that Casey texted Amy that George almost had a stroke. Almost? That's a new one on me. :confused:


I guess Casey doesn't know much about medical stuff. I didn't think it was possible to almost have a stroke. When a stroke happens, it happens. There is no warning that it is coming. It just happens and there is nothing a Dr. can do to stop it once it is happening. IMO

[One2Snoop]

Local Chemist Calls Chloroform In Anthony's Car 'Definitive'

Sources with knowledge of the investigation told WESH 2 that air samples from Casey Anthony's car came back positive for vaporized chloroform.

"I think it's as significant or more significant than finding decomposition products," chemist Jeff Flowers said.

Flowers has testified in state and federal court as an expert and said positive tests for vaporized chloroform mean those results could not have come from cleaning products, human body fluids or a mixture of anything else. Flowers said it had to have been pure chloroform.

"It could not have come from a chemical reaction in the trunk. It's impossible. That solvent could knock out the driver of the car. It's a very dangerous thing to have that material in your car," Flowers said.

He also said that these kinds of tests to detect vaporized chloroform are very common and admissible in court.

"I can name 30 labs in Florida that are absolutely scientifically inrefutable on that test. It's a very common test," Flowers said.

Casey Anthony's attorney, Jose Baez, was asked about the positive chloroform test results on Thursday.

"I don't comment on any evidence I have not seen," he said.

Orange County investigators said they are waiting for more test results.

Investigators said they would love to talk to Casey Anthony again and find out what happened to Caylee. Without that, they said, the scientific evidence is so important because it's not based on someone's opinion or memory.

Orange County Sheriff Kevin Beary spoke for all his investigators who've put in thousands of hours in the search for Caylee, and said that regardless of if Caylee is alive or has passed away, they need to find her.

Since mother Casey Anthony has said she does not know where her daughter is, top investigators said scientific evidence is playing a crucial part in the search for Caylee.

“It's not subjective. It's not someone's opinion or recollection. That's why scientific evidence is so important to us," Chief Ron Stucker said.

If chloroform was indeed in Casey Anthony's car in high concentrations, Flowers said it will be very difficult to explain how the hazardous chemical that cannot be purchased over the counter may have been in her car.

Tests are being conducted in at least two places: the FBI lab in Quantico, Virginia and also the so-called, "Body Farm," a forensic testing lab at the University of Tennessee.

WOO HOO!! I found it!! I'm proud of me ;)

Well there we have it! :beer: I'm proud of you too! :patriot:

[lorettalockhorn]

loretta I will still swim in your pool.. the chloroform is supposed to be a cleaning agent also...........IMO

Well, not only do we not use it, nor has it been suggested that we use it; it's not on the shelf where pool chemicals are sold.

[One2Snoop]

[/B]


I guess Casey doesn't know much about medical stuff. I didn't think it was possible to almost have a stroke. When a stroke happens, it happens. There is no warning that it is coming. It just happens and there is nothing a Dr. can do to stop it once it is happening. IMO

Well thats not totally true. There' supposedly some sort of medication that can be given to a patient if they catch it within a certain period of time. Also there's mini -strokes - I have a sister whose suffered from those for years now.

[applesandorange]

Well there we have it! :beer: I'm proud of you too! :patriot:

Thanks LoL! I thought I'd try to save you some work. I still don't know how you do it all the time. Sara is right. You should be a detective or a PI

[SaraSidle]

LoL! Thanks I think haha. Not trying to outdo anyone. Just trying to get to the truth. You know you being so confident in your theory is really starting to make me believe it too.

You have the power with your age and yes I am jealous. I am just going with what I heard. Casey really sounded like she wanted Amy to move in and her parents were moving out. I am just trying to look at the details and I am guessing Caylee was an accident to all this but I really have no idea. And I am complimenting you. I do not have the patience to quote things so well. I am you 20 years later. please enjoy what you have.........IMO sara

[One2Snoop]

Thanks LoL! I thought I'd try to save you some work. I still don't know how you do it all the time. Sara is right. You should be a detective or a PI

I'm just a true crime buff - nothing more - something I've always been interested in since a kid but never even thought about going this route in real life. To late for me but you're still young enough lol. :D :beer:

[SaraSidle]

Well, not only do we not use it, nor has it been suggested that we use it; it's not on the shelf where pool chemicals are sold.

well Loretta I have no doubts you have the cleanest pool at CL and DH and I cannot wait to come visit. I am sorry I am off topic but this case has me very angry...............miss you sara

[applesandorange]

Well thats not totally true. There' supposedly some sort of medication that can be given to a patient if they catch it within a certain period of time. Also there's mini -strokes - I have a sister whose suffered from those for years now.


Really? I never knew that there was any medication for it. How do you know it's coming on? I know about mini strokes. I used to work in a nursing home as an aide. We dealt with many mini strokes. I never knew of any medication though. That's great that there is a preventative to strokes now. Maybe we didn't deal with the medication because we caught it too late? Hmmm makes me wonder about the LPN's and RN's in that place.

[SaraSidle]

I'm just a true crime buff - nothing more - something I've always been interested in since a kid but never even thought about going this route in real life. To late for me but you're still young enough lol. :D :beer:

wish our age helped pay the bills. go for it applesandorange

[One2Snoop]

Really? I never knew that there was any medication for it. How do you know it's coming on? I know about mini strokes. I used to work in a nursing home as an aide. We dealt with many mini strokes. I never knew of any medication though. That's great that there is a preventative to strokes now. Maybe we didn't deal with the medication because we caught it too late? Hmmm makes me wonder about the LPN's and RN's in that place.

Oh good lord this was something I remember reading about years ago - don't quote me on it LOL. IIRC it was something that had to be given within the first hour and how many people know they're having a stroke in the first hour. Maybe it was just something experimental, it was so long ago I'm not sure.

[SaraSidle]

wish our age helped pay the bills. go for it applesandorange

I think they are Called TIA'S. Trans Ischemic______Attacks maybe. if you want to do research...........oh my applesandorange you just gave me chills. You may be so right on with George........whoooooooooa

[applesandorange]

You have the power with your age and yes I am jealous. I am just going with what I heard. Casey really sounded like she wanted Amy to move in and her parents were moving out. I am just trying to look at the details and I am guessing Caylee was an accident to all this but I really have no idea. And I am complimenting you. I do not have the patience to quote things so well. I am you 20 years later. please enjoy what you have.........IMO sara


Aww that's sweet Sara. Thanks. If you are what I will be in 20 years, I can't wait to get there. I don't have a lot of time. With 3 kiddos who my dh and I are very involved with but I do the best I can. My kids have to come first. I'm so happy now though...... only one more football game and then we will have some free time YAY!! I coach my daughters cheelreading team and my dh coaches our sons football team. We have football 5 times a week. On top of that we have a 3 year old. We are pretty busy. That's why somedays I'm not here. Between preschool, cleaning, sports, homework, meals, baths, bedtime stories..... well some days I'm just too tired to sign on.

[applesandorange]

I'm just a true crime buff - nothing more - something I've always been interested in since a kid but never even thought about going this route in real life. To late for me but you're still young enough lol. :D :beer:

LoL! Well right now I'm a stay at home mommy. When my baby who is 3 goes to school full days I will think about what I want to do. I was really considering going for my RN. We'll see. :beer:

[One2Snoop]

Aww that's sweet Sara. Thanks. If you are what I will be in 20 years, I can't wait to get there. I don't have a lot of time. With 3 kiddos who my dh and I are very involved with but I do the best I can. My kids have to come first. I'm so happy now though...... only one more football game and then we will have some free time YAY!! I coach my daughters cheelreading team and my dh coaches our sons football team. We have football 5 times a week. On top of that we have a 3 year old. We are pretty busy. That's why somedays I'm not here. Between preschool, cleaning, sports, homework, meals, baths, bedtime stories..... well some days I'm just too tired to sign on.

OMG I remember those days - kept me hopping. Now that my 2 are in their late teens all I get is the cold shoulder most of the time. ):

[applesandorange]

wish our age helped pay the bills. go for it applesandorange

It's never too late to do whatever you want. You just gotta put your mind to it. Both of you ladies could be detectives if you wanted to. Age is just a number.

[lorettalockhorn]

well Loretta I have no doubts you have the cleanest pool at CL and DH and I cannot wait to come visit. I am sorry I am off topic but this case has me very angry...............miss you sara

I use shock (chlorine), it's great stuff! And to tell you the truth, I'd just as soon be working on the pool as splashing around in it. As hot as it gets in Arkansas, the water isn't really warm enough for me to swim most of the time. You are welcome anytime you are in my neck of the woods! If you don't like the pool, I can freshen your drink! :beer:

[One2Snoop]

I think they are Called TIA'S. Trans Ischemic______Attacks maybe. if you want to do research...........oh my applesandorange you just gave me chills. You may be so right on with George........whoooooooooa

Yes thats what they're called.

[applesandorange]

OMG I remember those days - kept me hopping. Now that my 2 are in their late teens all I get is the cold shoulder most of the time. ):

I'm not looking forward to the teen years. My oldest is 10. He's already got an attitude. Tries to tell me what he's going to do. I can't imagine when he's 16. YIKES!! Yeah I was 18 when I had him. It's so weird for me to say I have 10 year old lol. He loves his mommy though and he is a good boy. Just not at home lol. He is actually in gifted classes and just got an award for being the most respectful in his class. I keep telling my dh that as long as he is good outside of the house he can get away with being a little naughty in the house. I however do not tolerate disrespecting me by back talking or lying. My kids know they better not lie to me. There is just no reason for it. Nothing can ever be so bad that you need to lie.

[applesandorange]

I use shock (chlorine), it's great stuff! And to tell you the truth, I'd just as soon be working on the pool as splashing around in it. As hot as it gets in Arkansas, the water isn't really warm enough for me to swim most of the time. You are welcome anytime you are in my neck of the woods! If you don't like the pool, I can freshen your drink! :beer:


Yeah everyone I know with a pool uses shock too.

[SaraSidle]

I use shock (chlorine), it's great stuff! And to tell you the truth, I'd just as soon be working on the pool as splashing around in it. As hot as it gets in Arkansas, the water isn't really warm enough for me to swim most of the time. You are welcome anytime you are in my neck of the woods! If you don't like the pool, I can freshen your drink! :beer:

See honey you know what I mean. I am so sure you and FDI are the best hostesses in Arkansas and my DH misses being there very much. We will all drink beer and look at the gorgeous pool. nope I think i will drink and swim . I am glad you are here posting. very frustrating. too much info. not like Nona...............

[One2Snoop]

Yeah everyone I know with a pool uses shock too.

I don't know anything about shock - we live in a gated community and they take care of the pool LOL. What is shock and why is it called that?

[SaraSidle]

Yes thats what they're called.

Thanks One2Snoop. Sometimes I still have it. a&O is going for an rn. she can take care of the rest of it. LOL.

[SaraSidle]

I don't know anything about shock - we live in a gated community and they take care of the pool LOL. What is shock and why is it called that?

yeah sounds scarey

[applesandorange]

I don't know anything about shock - we live in a gated community and they take care of the pool LOL. What is shock and why is it called that?


I don't know why it's called that. My friends always just say they are going to shock the pool. I know it's chlorine. I guess it shocks the water lol. I also know you can't go into the pool for a little after it gets shocked.

[samanthajane13]

"IIRC it was something that had to be given within the first hour and how many people know they're having a stroke in the first hour."

It's a clot-buster called TPA, and it has to be used within the first 3 hours after the stroke.

They couldn't use it on my grandfather because he laid on the floor of his condo for about 6 or 8 hours before anyone realized he wasn't well.

[One2Snoop]

I'm not looking forward to the teen years. My oldest is 10. He's already got an attitude. Tries to tell me what he's going to do. I can't imagine when he's 16. YIKES!! Yeah I was 18 when I had him. It's so weird for me to say I have 10 year old lol. He loves his mommy though and he is a good boy. Just not at home lol. He is actually in gifted classes and just got an award for being the most respectful in his class. I keep telling my dh that as long as he is good outside of the house he can get away with being a little naughty in the house. I however do not tolerate disrespecting me by back talking or lying. My kids know they better not lie to me. There is just no reason for it. Nothing can ever be so bad that you need to lie.

Been there done that! ;) One very important thing to remember is, never say never! I keep thinking if I hadn't had such high expectations I wouldn't feel so disappointed (not the right word I'm looking for) but things aren't always as they seem. I guess what I'm saying is you can do all the right things/influence them and when middle school rolls around hold on to your hat - or roller coaster for that matter. Thats when the dramatic changes occur IMO. I wonder if Cindy realized that back then? :confused:

[lorettalockhorn]

See honey you know what I mean. I am so sure you and FDI are the best hostesses in Arkansas and my DH misses being there very much. We will all drink beer and look at the gorgeous pool. nope I think i will drink and swim . I am glad you are here posting. very frustrating. too much info. not like Nona...............

Well, you know that we would wine and dine you! Yeah, it may be a while before we hear anything about Nona's case.

I don't know anything about shock - we live in a gated community and they take care of the pool LOL. What is shock and why is it called that?

Shock is a chlorine; it comes in a packet or a bucket that you measure out according to the volume of your pool. It's called shock because it rapidly adjusts the ph balance of the water making algae (and whatever else) unable to live and/or multiply.

I think. LOL

[applesandorange]

"IIRC it was something that had to be given within the first hour and how many people know they're having a stroke in the first hour."

It's a clot-buster called TPA, and it has to be used within the first 3 hours after the stroke.

They couldn't use it on my grandfather because he laid on the floor of his condo for about 6 or 8 hours before anyone realized he wasn't well.

So it's used AFTER you have a stroke? That makes more sense because I couldn't understand how you would know you were going to have one. My dad had a clot that moved from his leg to his lung. They just gave hom Heparin, a blood thinner and now he's on Coumadin (sp?) daily.

[One2Snoop]

"IIRC it was something that had to be given within the first hour and how many people know they're having a stroke in the first hour."

It's a clot-buster called TPA, and it has to be used within the first 3 hours after the stroke.

They couldn't use it on my grandfather because he laid on the floor of his condo for about 6 or 8 hours before anyone realized he wasn't well.

Thanks for the info samantha - sorry to hear about your grandfather :rose:

[lorettalockhorn]

"IIRC it was something that had to be given within the first hour and how many people know they're having a stroke in the first hour."

It's a clot-buster called TPA, and it has to be used within the first 3 hours after the stroke.

They couldn't use it on my grandfather because he laid on the floor of his condo for about 6 or 8 hours before anyone realized he wasn't well.


I think antiplatelets and warfarin are used to treat stroke. So sorry to hear about your grandfather. Stories like that make you want to sign up for those personal alert thingies. Our alarm system can add that onto our service.

[lorettalockhorn]

Loretta: Ya'll from Arkansas-dam i wish i had known that i was recently there. I luv the northern part of that state it reminds me of Northern Ontario. People are so.... nice. Your state does not get a fair shake. So we should all just come on down have some BBQ, swim in your pool and yes freshen our drinks. Please tell me your not in a dry county??? HA!!! Great hunting and fishing. Not that i hunt. Of course with the men in my family ya gotta go to Stuttgart.

Beem, I'm smack dab in the middle of the state, and wouldn't you know it's a dry county?!?! (We should build a still!) My father gave me his grandfather's .410 shotgun for Christmas last year! Haven't hunted in a long time, and never liked going after ducks. I mean, it's cold and dark and wet. BLECHHHH

[SaraSidle]

I think antiplatelets and warfarin are used to treat stroke. So sorry to hear about your grandfather. Stories like that make you want to sign up for those personal alert thingies. Our alarm system can add that onto our service.

Wow. I learn here every day. I am sorry Samantha about your grandfather. there is so much we do not know about.........imo sara

[applesandorange]

Been there done that! ;) One very important thing to remember is, never say never! I keep thinking if I hadn't had such high expectations I wouldn't feel so disappointed (not the right word I'm looking for) but things aren't always as they seem. I guess what I'm saying is you can do all the right things/influence them and when middle school rolls around hold on to your hat - or roller coaster for that matter. Thats when the dramatic changes occur IMO. I wonder if Cindy realized that back then? :confused:


Yeah I don't say never. I try to be understanding. It's like I keep telling my baby, I love them when they are happy. I love them when they are sad. I love them when they are good and I love them when they are bad. I love them when they are clean and I love them when they are stinky. He laughs at that. Nothing they could do could ever make me stop loving them. I cannot imagine what middle school has in store for us but I know I will try my best to give them the freedom they need while also trying my best to stay aware of what they are doing and who they are doing it with. I think my dh and I encourage sports because as long as they are so busy with sports they don't have much time for other stuff KWIM? I also think knowing your kids friends is soooo important. We always have kids here. I know every single one of my kids friends and I know when they are older I probably won't but I will do my best to make sure I know who they are hanging out with when they leave the house. I guess all we can do is try to instill values in our children and hope they live by them when they aren't by our sides. Parenting is the toughest job anyone can ever have. It's also the most rewarding

[SaraSidle]

Yeah I don't say never. I try to be understanding. It's like I keep telling my baby, I love them when they are happy. I love them when they are sad. I love them when they are good and I love them when they are bad. I love them when they are clean and I love them when they are stinky. He laughs at that. Nothing they could do could ever make me stop loving them. I cannot imagine what middle school has in store for us but I know I will try my best to give them the freedom they need while also trying my best to stay aware of what they are doing and who they are doing it with. I think my dh and I encourage sports because as long as they are so busy with sports they don't have much time for other stuff KWIM? I also think knowing your kids friends is soooo important. We always have kids here. I know every single one of my kids friends and I know when they are older I probably won't but I will do my best to make sure I know who they are hanging out with when they leave the house. I guess all we can do is try to instill values in our children and hope they live by them when they aren't by our sides. Parenting is the toughest job anyone can ever have. It's also the most rewarding

I am quite sure you are a great mother. You have brains and great instincts. but you cannot be perfect. no one can. I like posting with you.

[samanthajane13]

The odd thing about grandpa was that he was VERY ACTIVE for being 90-ish, and when we couldn't get him on the phone, we figured he was out shopping or at the library or something-just doing his thing, you know???

He still drove his car, had his condo and puttered around his place and did minor repairs at mom's house.

The day before the stroke, he'd attended Katey's 8th grade graduation Mass.

The next morning, the lady downstairs heard a thump at about 5 am. We figure that's when he had the stroke, but he wasn't found until about 2 or 3 pm, and by then it was too late for the TPA.

He lived for another 4 years or so, in a nursing home.

He had a major heart attack with renal on July 31st, and passed away on August 7th.

He's in a much better place, and we wouldn't want him to stay here if he had to suffer.

[applesandorange]

I am quite sure you are a great mother. You have brains and great instincts. but you cannot be perfect. no one can. I like posting with you.

Thanks. I like posting with you too. Nope, I'm not perfect. I don't think anyone can be. All we can do is the best we can. We are all in this together.

[lorettalockhorn]

The odd thing about grandpa was that he was VERY ACTIVE for being 90-ish, and when we couldn't get him on the phone, we figured he was out shopping or at the library or something-just doing his thing, you know???

He still drove his car, had his condo and puttered around his place and did minor repairs at mom's house.

The day before the stroke, he'd attended Katey's 8th grade graduation Mass.

The next morning, the lady downstairs heard a thump at about 5 am. We figure that's when he had the stroke, but he wasn't found until about 2 or 3 pm, and by then it was too late for the TPA.

He lived for another 4 years or so, in a nursing home.

He had a major heart attack with renal on July 31st, and passed away on August 7th.

He's in a much better place, and we wouldn't want him to stay here if he had to suffer.

Amen.

[applesandorange]

The odd thing about grandpa was that he was VERY ACTIVE for being 90-ish, and when we couldn't get him on the phone, we figured he was out shopping or at the library or something-just doing his thing, you know???

He still drove his car, had his condo and puttered around his place and did minor repairs at mom's house.

The day before the stroke, he'd attended Katey's 8th grade graduation Mass.

The next morning, the lady downstairs heard a thump at about 5 am. We figure that's when he had the stroke, but he wasn't found until about 2 or 3 pm, and by then it was too late for the TPA.

He lived for another 4 years or so, in a nursing home.



He had a major heart attack with renal on July 31st, and passed away on August 7th.

He's in a much better place, and we wouldn't want him to stay here if he had to suffer.


I'm so sorry for your loss. That's amazing that he was active for so long. That's great. He had a long healthy life. My grandma is 92. She still lives in her own house and does her own gardening.

ETA I guess we should be so glad that we are so blessed to have them for so long. I know your grandpa is in a much better place and so glad he's not suffering.

[applesandorange]

So does anyone think TES will find Caylee when they return?

[samanthajane13]

You know, considering they have the geographical profile to work from, and all the info about the cell phone pings and the guy who saw her coming out of the woods, I really think they WILL find her-IF there's anything left to be found. They may just find scent evidence-if they bring cadaver dogs-and I think that would be automatic at this time...knowing that they are professional searchers and the amount of time that's elapsed.

Unless Casey threw Caylee into a body of water with gators or something.

But if there's a body, or physical evidence or cadaver scent left to be found, I think they'll find it, and then Casey's goose is cooked.

[One2Snoop]

I'm so sorry for your loss. That's amazing that he was active for so long. That's great. He had a long healthy life. My grandma is 92. She still lives in her own house and does her own gardening.

ETA I guess we should be so glad that we are so blessed to have them for so long. I know your grandpa is in a much better place and so glad he's not suffering.


Awww the memories. My grandmother died at the age of almost 98. She was still gardening in her early nineties. My aunt married her 5th (loser husband) who happened to drive a truck cross country - my grandma loved traveling and so there she was - in the (camper part - not sure what its called) hauling ***** just so she could travel. :tongue: I still crack up laughing when I think about it and I'm sure my grandma is laughing right along with me. She was a true pioneer for women in the work place - starting her own printing business back in the 30's - it thrived for many, many years, welll into the year 2000 when her son (my uncle took over). I remember as a kid making 25cents an hour assembling booklets. Seemed like great money then to buy candy and soda LOL.
Hey I'm not ancient - just very middle aged LOL - In hindsight I wished I'd done completly the opposite in my profession and gone for criminal justice instead of the businees degree.

[applesandorange]

You know, considering they have the geographical profile to work from, and all the info about the cell phone pings and the guy who saw her coming out of the woods, I really think they WILL find her-IF there's anything left to be found. They may just find scent evidence-if they bring cadaver dogs-and I think that would be automatic at this time...knowing that they are professional searchers and the amount of time that's elapsed.

Unless Casey threw Caylee into a body of water with gators or something.

But if there's a body, or physical evidence or cadaver scent left to be found, I think they'll find it, and then Casey's goose is cooked.


I belive you are right. It seems so far away until they come back to search. I so want for Caylee to have a proper burial.

[One2Snoop]

So does anyone think TES will find Caylee when they return?

Keeping my fingers crossed. :rose:

[applesandorange]

Awww the memories. My grandmother died at the age of almost 98. She was still gardening in her early nineties. My aunt married her 5th (loser husband) who happened to drive a truck cross country - my grandma loved traveling and so there she was - in the (camper part - not sure what its called) hauling ***** just so she could travel. :tongue: I still crack up laughing when I think about it and I'm sure my grandma is laughing right along with me. She was a true pioneer for women in the work place - starting her own printing business back in the 30's - it thrived for many, many years, welll into the year 2000 when her son (my uncle took over). I remember as a kid making 25cents an hour assembling booklets. Seemed like great money then to buy candy and soda LOL.
Hey I'm not ancient - just very middle aged LOL - In hindsight I wished I'd done completly the opposite in my profession and gone for criminal justice instead of the businees degree.


That's so awesome!!

[SaraSidle]

Awww the memories. My grandmother died at the age of almost 98. She was still gardening in her early nineties. My aunt married her 5th (loser husband) who happened to drive a truck cross country - my grandma loved traveling and so there she was - in the (camper part - not sure what its called) hauling ***** just so she could travel. :tongue: I still crack up laughing when I think about it and I'm sure my grandma is laughing right along with me. She was a true pioneer for women in the work place - starting her own printing business back in the 30's - it thrived for many, many years, welll into the year 2000 when her son (my uncle took over). I remember as a kid making 25cents an hour assembling booklets. Seemed like great money then to buy candy and soda LOL.
Hey I'm not ancient - just very middle aged LOL - In hindsight I wished I'd done completly the opposite in my profession and gone for criminal justice instead of the businees degree.

Wow that makes sense knowing you. You are like your grandmother!!!

[SaraSidle]

I belive you are right. It seems so far away until they come back to search. I so want for Caylee to have a proper burial.

I so agree with you but I am afraid there is not much left. we have decomp and animals and I just do not think it will happen. I know I would sleep at night if it did.........but even Tim knows what he is up against. Orlando has many everglade type areas so it will probably be very difficult. IMO sara

[SaraSidle]

I know and the thing that gets me the most and i try just to not go there is it's gatorland for lack of better words. In my mind she was asleep and never felt anything. I so hope they can find her. What great history stories u folks have shared. Many of u sure hit the good gene pool. My best memories were summers on my Aunts dairy farm in Amish country-they were not Amish but i was certainly exposed to it in the area. They had no kids of their own so it was nothing for 9 of us cousins to be there for several weeks at the same time. We are still close cousins to this day. Only because of that time together as children. Sad part is when we all get together our kids are asking ok who is that again and whats their names.

I feel the same way. I have about 20 cousins out east and love them all and we are alike in many ways. I miss them very much. IMO

[sharlock]

http://i38.tinypic.com/2irw5df.jpg
Ha! lol, you really crack me up. Thanks I needed that!

[sharlock]

You will do just fine. The one thing i like is that u are very involved parents. I am no perfect parent but am proud to say we have raised 3 kids we are proud of today as young adults. I have no words of wisdom just a few thru experience as we all do that have parented. I guess i am only responding to this as before i went to work today i spent 3 hrs. with our best friends over their 17 yr. old daughter. Daughter from hell only cuz it was allowed. Wonderful parents,actively involved,kids and parents very involved with them thru their lives with sports. Which i really support and u are doing. Whether it's a sport or music or whatever they need to be active and off the streets. When the attitude started with our kids-guess what your off the pc for a week,when older guess what your grounded and cleaning the garage,then ya take away the car key's. They are never too old for u to have control. Our eldest thanks us for that. The other 2 have not quite got there yet. We really never had sleepless nights or heartache. It was just sad today but i have sat back and watched this enabling dynamic. My friend works her butt off and never treats herself to anything. The 17 year old gets the french manicures,spa,tanning,clothes and then Mom hands her the new 40 thousand dollar vehicle to drive in cuz the beater car just aint cool enough. Today was the capper when the empty booze bottles rolled out and the nice leather seats in the new SUV have roach burns on every seat. My head just kinda spins when it's how did we get here. HELLO cuz ya allowed it. My belief is teach respect and instill confidence while surrounding with luv. They will grow and thrive. The minute they step out ya take away the things that mean the most and they will learn quick. My friend has always been a cool friend but u cant always be the cool mom.:beer:
That is so true Beemeup, well said. I also think that even if a child has got away with being thoughtless and selfish there comes a time when they themselves should mature and take resposibility for the way they act. The excuse of 'my parents brought me up wrong' does have a shelf life and should expire around the time they expect to be treated as adults. I beleive that if you are going to treat them as adults they should act like one too.

[sharlock]

[Does anyone remember the article or the blurb where Casey told Cindy she gave or sold Caylee to someone in Puerto Rico? I think this is going to be their explanation or that Jesse Grund took her and threatened Casey. Is this what Baez is talking about? I mean it is getting absurd all these stories, next we will hear it is like that Austrialian woman and a dingo took the baby. Sorry to joke but I get so frustrated with all these stories. Nothing funny about the truth at all but these stories. PS I will go find that blurb in the paper because I just thought the selling the baby in Puerto Rico story was weird. :tongue:

The problem with your analogy mu8shark is that the dingo really did eat her baby and she was falsely accused jailed and then belatedly exhonerated of all charges lol. I think you are referring to our Lindy Chamberlain and her daughter Azaria. I agree and think she plans to go to court saying that she was told that if she ever named names and told who took her daughter that Caylee would be killed and that she beleives her silence is the only thing keeping her alive. I think that she will refuse to say anything of value in her defense saying that she is williong to be wrongly convicted to keep her silence as she believes that would keep her daughter alive. She will then hope the jury believes her and lets her off on reasonable doubt. I can't see how she could say anything else because if she even started to try and defend herself or explain what happened she would be cooked so quickly by the prosecution it wouldn't be funny. This defense would give them a reason to maintain Casey's silence (and lets face it even the Defense team wants her to shut her trap) so she wouldn't further incriminate herself, and still hope to get reasonable doubt. I doubt this would work as a defense but I can't see what else they could do.:shrug:

[NMurphy02]

I think that Casey plans on blaming Amy H and the group that went to Puerto Rico w/o her. I bet they are cursing the day they ever got involved with her. I bet everybody is. Well except her delusional family. What are they going to do when they find her body? Blame someone else I guess. Irritants.

Suddenly Casey is the Bestest Mom in world when Cindy has been running around telling everyone that it was SHE who bought things for Caylee. That Casey didn't DO anything for Caylee. This family is just off it's nut. But at least Casey is getting what she wants. All the attention is on her now.

[samanthajane13]

"I think that she will refuse to say anything of value in her defense saying that she is williong to be wrongly convicted to keep her silence as she believes that would keep her daughter alive. She will then hope the jury believes her and lets her off on reasonable doubt. I can't see how she could say anything else because if she even started to try and defend herself or explain what happened she would be cooked so quickly by the prosecution it wouldn't be funny. This defense would give them a reason to maintain Casey's silence (and lets face it even the Defense team wants her to shut her trap) so she wouldn't further incriminate herself, and still hope to get reasonable doubt. I doubt this would work as a defense but I can't see what else they could do."

I tend to agree, unless they're REALLY stupid and try for an insanity defense, stating "look at all the half-azzed things she did when Caylee disappeared...those aren't the actions of a SANE person-she must be NUTZ!"

And if they get some bleeding-heart jurors, that just might work.

:shrug:

[jas72]

This is my first post, so if there is another thread where this has been discussed, I apologize in advance for not posting there. There are many, many posts to go through, and I haven't looked at all of them.
Anyway, my theory of what may have happened is this: I think that Casey Anthony did not intend to murder Caylee. I think that she intended to knock her out with chloroform so that she could go partying and not worry about getting a babysitter. Because she isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer, she used too much and little Caylee died. I think that Casey then started looking up missing children web sites in order to craft a likely scenario to explain Caylee's disappearance.
Think of it this way. If she had intended on killing her child from the beginning, she would most certainly have also made a plan on disposing of her body. Because I think that Caylee's death was accidental, Casey went into a panic and took a while to invent a cover story.
It would be intersting to see the timeline of Casey's internet searches. If she looked up chloroform before Caylee's disappearance, and the searches for missing children websites were after Caylee disappeared, then I think that would lead credence to my theory that her death was unintentional. Comments?

[joekuhl79]

This is my first post, so if there is another thread where this has been discussed, I apologize in advance for not posting there. There are many, many posts to go through, and I haven't looked at all of them.
Anyway, my theory of what may have happened is this: I think that Casey Anthony did not intend to murder Caylee. I think that she intended to knock her out with chloroform so that she could go partying and not worry about getting a babysitter. Because she isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer, she used too much and little Caylee died. I think that Casey then started looking up missing children web sites in order to craft a likely scenario to explain Caylee's disappearance.
Think of it this way. If she had intended on killing her child from the beginning, she would most certainly have also made a plan on disposing of her body. Because I think that Caylee's death was accidental, Casey went into a panic and took a while to invent a cover story.
It would be intersting to see the timeline of Casey's internet searches. If she looked up chloroform before Caylee's disappearance, and the searches for missing children websites were after Caylee disappeared, then I think that would lead credence to my theory that her death was unintentional. Comments?

Welcome aboard!

I'm not sure if I believe that Casey was chloroforming Casey regularly to go out partying. It seems to me that Caylee was always accounted for up until June (except maybe the night Ricardo or Anthony or whoever it was said that when they went to bed, Caylee was with them, and when he woke up Caylee was gone - Casey said she took her home...)

But still, what if:

Casey wanted to go out but didn't want to take Caylee to George and Cindy (out of spite) and this was the first (and only) time she tried to chloroform Caylee, and used too much?

Or - what if she did it 'right' and Caylee went to sleep in the trunk, but woke up and flipped out, and somehow spilled a container of chloroform?

Or - what if it was one of the nights that Casey got wasted and was hugging the toilet, passes out or something and can't get to Caylee before the sun comes out, leaving Caylee to die of heat exposure? Casey finally goes to get her and freaks out, spilling a container of chloroform?

We can speculate for months on what happened. This sucks. I wish she'd just break down and admit the truth - or some semblance of the truth...

[samanthajane13]

"I'm not sure if I believe that Casey was chloroforming Casey regularly to go out partying. It seems to me that Caylee was always accounted for up until June (except maybe the night Ricardo or Anthony or whoever it was said that when they went to bed, Caylee was with them, and when he woke up Caylee was gone - Casey said she took her home...)

But still, what if:

Casey wanted to go out but didn't want to take Caylee to George and Cindy (out of spite) and this was the first (and only) time she tried to chloroform Caylee, and used too much?

Or - what if she did it 'right' and Caylee went to sleep in the trunk, but woke up and flipped out, and somehow spilled a container of chloroform?

Or - what if it was one of the nights that Casey got wasted and was hugging the toilet, passes out or something and can't get to Caylee before the sun comes out, leaving Caylee to die of heat exposure? Casey finally goes to get her and freaks out, spilling a container of chloroform?

We can speculate for months on what happened. This sucks. I wish she'd just break down and admit the truth - or some semblance of the truth... "

Regardless of WHAT HAPPENED or how it happened, Casey is STILL GUILTY!!!

Caylee certainly didn't get into the trunk by herself!

At the very least, it's neglect and abuse.

At the worst, IT'S PREMEDITATED MURDER!!!

[deacon]

It could also be a mixture of the following - hot, dead body in the trunk ( sorry for the gross description but....) Maybe it wasn't actually chloroform in the truest form - I can see why people have come to the conclusion that little Caylee may have originally drowned in the swimming pool - guess we won't know that until trial time unfortunately.

Chloroform also is the byproduct of contact between chlorine used in swimming pools and skin, sweat or urine.

One of the scientific talking heads said on NG that the levels he had read about would not have come from this method. I would probably only come from either the soaked rag or a spill.

[Notknowingall]

I dont think she will ever crack. Unless LE has alot of evidence we may never know the whole story. Folks like her never view the world the way we do. Thats a good thing cuz it eventually is what takes them down.:rose: MOO

IMO I think that putting her in the general population with some "get to know Casey" time is in order. I think she may be willing to open up more after that.:punch:

[applesandorange]

This is my first post, so if there is another thread where this has been discussed, I apologize in advance for not posting there. There are many, many posts to go through, and I haven't looked at all of them.
Anyway, my theory of what may have happened is this: I think that Casey Anthony did not intend to murder Caylee. I think that she intended to knock her out with chloroform so that she could go partying and not worry about getting a babysitter. Because she isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer, she used too much and little Caylee died. I think that Casey then started looking up missing children web sites in order to craft a likely scenario to explain Caylee's disappearance.
Think of it this way. If she had intended on killing her child from the beginning, she would most certainly have also made a plan on disposing of her body. Because I think that Caylee's death was accidental, Casey went into a panic and took a while to invent a cover story.
It would be intersting to see the timeline of Casey's internet searches. If she looked up chloroform before Caylee's disappearance, and the searches for missing children websites were after Caylee disappeared, then I think that would lead credence to my theory that her death was unintentional. Comments?

The first searches on the missing children sites were in March.

[Brainstorm]

Not only did the guy NOT introduce Casey to the babysitter, HE HAS NO CHILDREN. I heard him say this on NG.

[deacon]

You know, since Cindy is a nurse, possibly that's where she might have picked up info about the chloroform. C is not a by- product of chlorine according the Kobilinsky. If she used it on Caylee, the bodily fluids in the car meant the child was in there long enough. The C was saturated in the trunk, so I'm inclined to think it was used to knock her out. There would be no other reason for it to be there. Other than anesthesia, it is used to clean up specimans and isolate dna in labs! Before June when Casey got pissed at Cindy, Cindy was babysitting for Caylee, so I agree with you , I don't think she was doing it all along.

Another thing is that if she fessed up to Baez that it was an 'accident' he might have to excuse himself from the rest of what follows, according to Ray Guidice ~ hence the newest addition to her defense team, for more reasons than one (makes sense).

Upon reading the transcripts of her cell phone with Amy, it absolutely amazes me how much she embellishes about her father's stroke that never happened! Psycho Psycho!

Then there's Jeff who supposedly introduced her to the non existent Zani. He tells NG it never happened, and doesn't know of such a woman.

The bag taken out of the trunk and thrown in the dumpster by the tow truck person..the bag was retrieved and tested only to find Caylee's bodily DNA fluids on it and yes, pizza inside. The maggots we all over the Outside.

She will not get out of this, and MOO, the LE has been keeping a lot of stuff pretty close to the vest...Casey will be the 18th woman on death row in Florida....and rightfully so.

Caylee:rose:

The only part I would question is that IIRC, it is the amount of time one is exposed to chloroform that kills, not necessarily the amount. The chloroform, itself, over time kills. First you "go to sleep" then one dies. This is why I question the accidental theory. I still think it was murder, on purpose.

[samanthajane13]

"IMO I think that putting her in the general population with some "get to know Casey" time is in order. I think she may be willing to open up more after that."


Yup-I agree completely.

There are plenty of women there who are separated from their children, who've committed less serious crimes, and they would give their eye-teeth to protect their kids!!!

These ladies would kick the living CRAP out of Casey in a heart-beat for harming Caylee, when they can't even see their kids on a regular basis.

Call me twisted, but I'd even pay to see this little meet-and-greet!!!:D

[jas72]

The first searches on the missing children sites were in March.

Hmmm...that puts a hole in that part of my theory then. Thanks for the reply. I still think that she came up with chloforoming Caylee as a means to avoid having to obtain a babysitter. I don't think many people would use chloroform as a murdering agent.
Then again, we're not sure how Caylee met her demise. I still think that if you go to the trouble of murdering someone, you also have a plan on the disposal of the body and don't give it time to begin the decomposition process. You would be thinking that no one will ever find the body, much less determine a cause of death, so one way is as good as the other...e.g., drowning, suffocating with a pillow, etc.

[applesandorange]

Hmmm...that puts a hole in that part of my theory then. Thanks for the reply. I still think that she came up with chloforoming Caylee as a means to avoid having to obtain a babysitter. I don't think many people would use chloroform as a murdering agent.
Then again, we're not sure how Caylee met her demise. I still think that if you go to the trouble of murdering someone, you also have a plan on the disposal of the body and don't give it time to begin the decomposition process. You would be thinking that no one will ever find the body, much less determine a cause of death, so one way is as good as the other...e.g., drowning, suffocating with a pillow, etc.


I agree. Even if she was thinking of killing Caylee I don't think she meant for it to happen when it did because of her behavior in putting the body in so many different places. If she planned the murder she would have planned where to put the body. You are right. Unless like I said before she killed her out of spite to Cindy. Then again she would not have had a plan as to where to put the body. An act out of rage would make her sporadic in her actions as well.

ETA: BTW WELCOME to the board

[Notknowingall]

"IMO I think that putting her in the general population with some "get to know Casey" time is in order. I think she may be willing to open up more after that."


Yup-I agree completely.

There are plenty of women there who are separated from their children, who've committed less serious crimes, and they would give their eye-teeth to protect their kids!!!

These ladies would kick the living CRAP out of Casey in a heart-beat for harming Caylee, when they can't even see their kids on a regular basis.

Call me twisted, but I'd even pay to see this little meet-and-greet!!!:D

I so agree. think they'd sell us tickets?

[deacon]

Hmmm...that puts a hole in that part of my theory then. Thanks for the reply. I still think that she came up with chloforoming Caylee as a means to avoid having to obtain a babysitter. I don't think many people would use chloroform as a murdering agent.
Then again, we're not sure how Caylee met her demise. I still think that if you go to the trouble of murdering someone, you also have a plan on the disposal of the body and don't give it time to begin the decomposition process. You would be thinking that no one will ever find the body, much less determine a cause of death, so one way is as good as the other...e.g., drowning, suffocating with a pillow, etc.

I think she had a plan to dispose of the body. It is just that her parents didn't take the out of town trip like planned. Threw a "monkey wrench" into the plan. Thus the scent in the backyard and other places around the house. She had taken the first step, murder, and then could not take the next step as she had planned.

[jas72]

I think she had a plan to dispose of the body. It is just that her parents didn't take the out of town trip like planned. Threw a "monkey wrench" into the plan. Thus the scent in the backyard and other places around the house. She had taken the first step, murder, and then could not take the next step as she had planned.

How did her parents' not taking a trip throw a monkey wrench into her plan? What do you think she had planned as a means of disposing Caylee's body in the first place?

[jas72]

I agree. Even if she was thinking of killing Caylee I don't think she meant for it to happen when it did because of her behavior in putting the body in so many different places. If she planned the murder she would have planned where to put the body. You are right. Unless like I said before she killed her out of spite to Cindy. Then again she would not have had a plan as to where to put the body. An act out of rage would make her sporadic in her actions as well.

ETA: BTW WELCOME to the board

Thanks for the welcome!

If she had killed Caylee to spite Cindy, that's a pretty nasty way of doing it. I'd think that she would just not let them see Caylee as much, but she seemed very dependent on their care for her since they provided so much for her well being.
I agree that an act of rage in which Caylee was killed would provide the same sporadic actions as would an accidental killing of Caylee done by chloroforming her to avoid having to get a babysitter. It's her actions afterward (as you mentioned with moving her so often) that lead me to believe that she didn't plan on killing Caylee.

[Gatordog]

Why would someone use cholorform to clean a trunk? Can chloroform be used as a cleaning agent? I thought it was only used as a drug.

One of its uses is as a cleaning solvent.

[Gatordog]

So does anyone think TES will find Caylee when they return?

Hi A&O,

I think they will find Caylee or at least evidence. Leonard Padilla is going to be here on November 8th for the search. He has given money to TES and is backing the search. I know there will be lots of people helping to look. The weather is now cooler and drier, much more comfortable for the searchers and more land will be accessible. The man who stated that he saw the white car with the black bra and the woman with the shovel said he would even put together his own search party if LE didn't search in that area.

[applesandorange]

Hi A&O,

I think they will find Caylee or at least evidence. Leonard Padilla is going to be here on November 8th for the search. He has given money to TES and is backing the search. I know there will be lots of people helping to look. The weather is now cooler and drier, much more comfortable for the searchers and more land will be accessible. The man who stated that he saw the white car with the black bra and the woman with the shovel said he would even put together his own search party if LE didn't search in that area.


Hi Gator! We've missed you! Thanks so much for the info. It's too quiet during the weekends without you. I think I speak for all of us when I say we are all happy when Monday rolls around and you are back giving us much needed information to talk about :beer:

[applesandorange]

Thanks for the welcome!

If she had killed Caylee to spite Cindy, that's a pretty nasty way of doing it. I'd think that she would just not let them see Caylee as much, but she seemed very dependent on their care for her since they provided so much for her well being.
I agree that an act of rage in which Caylee was killed would provide the same sporadic actions as would an accidental killing of Caylee done by chloroforming her to avoid having to get a babysitter. It's her actions afterward (as you mentioned with moving her so often) that lead me to believe that she didn't plan on killing Caylee.


Remember Casey's poem? The one line said something like what is given can be taken away. I think she may have written this to Cindy as a spiteful way of saying she killed Caylee. The poem was written IIRC after LE thinks Caylee died. That's what makes me think Casey may have killed her as an act against Cindy. Again this is all JMO.

[applesandorange]

I think she had a plan to dispose of the body. It is just that her parents didn't take the out of town trip like planned. Threw a "monkey wrench" into the plan. Thus the scent in the backyard and other places around the house. She had taken the first step, murder, and then could not take the next step as she had planned.


Yeah this could be. For all we know she was going to frame her parents and say they took Caylee on vacation with them. She very well might have framed them for murder. Who knows with this whacked out b/i/t/c/h anything is possible.

[Gatordog]

Hi Everyone :seeya: I'm back from vacation. I spent two days cleaning my front yard, mulching, planting etc. I'm going to get that Lawn of the Month award yet! It cost me over $50 for yard supplies to get a $25 award. :shrug: but it's the sign on the lawn that counts.

So, back to business. I was answering individual postings, but then I realized I'm so behind that they were probably already answered.

Something keeps sticking in my mind - I think Caylee was killed in an act of rage. I keep thinking of how Casey left the house in a fit of anger against her mother. Cindy supposedly got physical with Casey, the neighbors heard the fight - Casey not Cindy's voice. I question George's accuracy about Casey being in the house the next morning and very calmly leaving at 1:00 with Caylee to go to the sitter's house and then to work.

I can imagine poor Caylee being frightened by her mother's fury and being out so long and wanting to go home. She was probably crying for her grandmother (Casey's own words verify that during her questioning by police). I think she wanted to make the child stop crying and used the chloroform to quiet her down. I think she was extra rough on the child as revenge against her own mother.

Casey probably was a good mother at one time, but as she saw the child growing closer to her grandmother, she developed a resentment towards Caylee. Casey is a sociopath so it was okay to have the child when it was to her advantage, but George was catching on to her and Cindy was going to take her for her own. She wouldn't let that happen. Cindy did offer to adopt the child but Casey wouldn't do it - sort of cut your nose to spite your face. No way was she going to let her mother win. So, this was premeditated. It might not have occurred when she wanted it to happen, but as long as she had a few seconds to think about it, it's first degree murder.

Gator

[Gatordog]

Remember Casey's poem? The one line said something like what is given can be taken away. I think she may have written this to Cindy as a spiteful way of saying she killed Caylee. The poem was written IIRC after LE thinks Caylee died. That's what makes me think Casey may have killed her as an act against Cindy. Again this is all JMO.

Yes - yes - yes!! I didn't think of the poem in that respect. As I was typing my thoughts you said just what I was thinking, only in a much shorter and faster way. I have to learn to talk less.:rolleyes:

[deacon]

How did her parents' not taking a trip throw a monkey wrench into her plan? What do you think she had planned as a means of disposing Caylee's body in the first place?

Just about the time Caylee was not around anymore,her parents were to take an out of town trip. They did not go. It could have been something as simple as her planning to keep the body in her car, in the garage overnight and then dump it in a remote location. When she got there they had not gone on the trip which prevented her from completing her plan to hide the body for a short time at their house. Hence she put it in the sandbox while they were not around and left it there until she could move it.

Where did she plan on disposing? Probably in an area where there is water. She would know it would be somewhat harder to find there and if it were found, she would have the "story" of a kidnapping to fall back on. The parents just messed up her plan, it didn't stop it. I still think the body was disposed of in an area with water and gators, for obvious reasons I will not state because it isn't very nice.

[applesandorange]

Hi Everyone :seeya: I'm back from vacation. I spent two days cleaning my front yard, mulching, planting etc. I'm going to get that Lawn of the Month award yet! It cost me over $50 for yard supplies to get a $25 award. :shrug: but it's the sign on the lawn that counts.

So, back to business. I was answering individual postings, but then I realized I'm so behind that they were probably already answered.

Something keeps sticking in my mind - I think Caylee was killed in an act of rage. I keep thinking of how Casey left the house in a fit of anger against her mother. Cindy supposedly got physical with Casey, the neighbors heard the fight - Casey not Cindy's voice. I question George's accuracy about Casey being in the house the next morning and very calmly leaving at 1:00 with Caylee to go to the sitter's house and then to work.

I can imagine poor Caylee being frightened by her mother's fury and being out so long and wanting to go home. She was probably crying for her grandmother (Casey's own words verify that during her questioning by police). I think she wanted to make the child stop crying and used the chloroform to quiet her down. I think she was extra rough on the child as revenge against her own mother.

Casey probably was a good mother at one time, but as she saw the child growing closer to her grandmother, she developed a resentment towards Caylee. Casey is a sociopath so it was okay to have the child when it was to her advantage, but George was catching on to her and Cindy was going to take her for her own. She wouldn't let that happen. Cindy did offer to adopt the child but Casey wouldn't do it - sort of cut your nose to spite your face. No way was she going to let her mother win. So, this was premeditated. It might not have occurred when she wanted it to happen, but as long as she had a few seconds to think about it, it's first degree murder.

Gator


GREAT post! You make some very valid points. It all makes sense that it could have happened that way. I too have thought it may have been a killing to spite her mother.

[applesandorange]

Yes - yes - yes!! I didn't think of the poem in that respect. As I was typing my thoughts you said just what I was thinking, only in a much shorter and faster way. I have to learn to talk less.:rolleyes:

LoL! I thought we were on the same page. I like you talking more. You really validate your points when you explain your thoughts.

[Gatordog]

Yeah this could be. For all we know she was going to frame her parents and say they took Caylee on vacation with them. She very well might have framed them for murder. Who knows with this whacked out b/i/t/c/h anything is possible.

Makes a lot of sense. Perhaps when she was reading the missing children websites, she was looking up the info on Maddie McCann. Who knows if she intended to knock out Cindy from behind, take Caylee, do away with her and make it seem like a kidnapping and murder. Could explain all the gas cans, can't stop for gas and risk being on a tape near the crime scene in Fort Myers.

[jas72]

Remember Casey's poem? The one line said something like what is given can be taken away. I think she may have written this to Cindy as a spiteful way of saying she killed Caylee. The poem was written IIRC after LE thinks Caylee died. That's what makes me think Casey may have killed her as an act against Cindy. Again this is all JMO.

Can you provide me a link to the poem? As I stated earlier, I'm a newbie and haven't had time to digest all the threads.

[jas72]

Just about the time Caylee was not around anymore,her parents were to take an out of town trip. They did not go. It could have been something as simple as her planning to keep the body in her car, in the garage overnight and then dump it in a remote location. When she got there they had not gone on the trip which prevented her from completing her plan to hide the body for a short time at their house. Hence she put it in the sandbox while they were not around and left it there until she could move it.

Where did she plan on disposing? Probably in an area where there is water. She would know it would be somewhat harder to find there and if it were found, she would have the "story" of a kidnapping to fall back on. The parents just messed up her plan, it didn't stop it. I still think the body was disposed of in an area with water and gators, for obvious reasons I will not state because it isn't very nice.

In your scenario, where do you think Caylee was killed? Your scenario makes some sense, but I guess I keep going back to the fact that if she planned on killing Caylee, she'd also have a plan on disposing her body, too. Unless as you and others have surmised it was done in a fit of rage without much planning at all, thus the need to move Caylee's body from place to place.

[applesandorange]

Can you provide me a link to the poem? As I stated earlier, I'm a newbie and haven't had time to digest all the threads.

Here is the poem

"Diary of Days" Currently watching: American Psycho

“On the worst of worst days,
remember the words spoken.
Trust no one,
only yourself.
With great power,
comes great consequence.
What is given
can be taken away.
Everyone Lies.
Everyone Dies.

On the worst of worst days,
remember the words spoken.
Hold your head high,
Smile,
Laugh,
Love unconditionally.
Tomorrow is a brand new day."


Now here is what Cindy wrote before Casey wrote the poem

She came into my life unexspectedly, just as she has left me. This precious little angel from above gave me strength and unconditional love. Now she is gone and I don’t know why. All I am guilty of is loving her and providing her a safe home. Jealousy has taken her away. Jealousy from the one person that should be thankfull for all of the love and support given to her. A mother’s love is deep, however there are limits when one is betrayed by the one she loved and trusted the most. A daughter comes to her mother for support when she is pregnant, the mother says without hesitation it will be ok. And it was. But then the lies and betrayal began. First it seemed harmless, ah, love is blind. A mother will look for the good in her child and give them a chance to change. This mother gave chance after chance for her daughter to change, but instead more lies more betrayal. What does the mother get for giving her daughter all of these chances? A broken heart. The daughter who stole money, lots of money, leaves without warning and does not let her mother now speak to the baby that her mother raised, fed, clothed, sheltered, paid her medical bills, etc. Instead tells her friends that her mother is controlling her life and she needs her space. No money, no future. Where did she go? Who is now watching out for the little angel?

[jas72]

Thanks, A&O. Interesting indeed.

[deacon]

In your scenario, where do you think Caylee was killed? Your scenario makes some sense, but I guess I keep going back to the fact that if she planned on killing Caylee, she'd also have a plan on disposing her body, too. Unless as you and others have surmised it was done in a fit of rage without much planning at all, thus the need to move Caylee's body from place to place.

Where is one I didn't think about a lot. I would suggest where ever she was staying. Didn't on of her roommates say she was asleep with him and that Caylee was there and then she got up and when he woke up the next morning Caylee was gone? Very easily could have been that night either in the house where she was staying or in the car. This type of killing would be quiet. Specially if the victim trusts you.

[One2Snoop]

:rolleyes:

Baez on Geraldo At Large ~ Sunday, October 19, 2008
Video

Baez on Geraldo

Casey Anthony's attorney Jose Baez says his team is excited to try and prove his client didn't murder her daughter Caylee. Baez appeared on FOX News channel's Geraldo at Large Sunday night.
http://www.myfoxorlando.com/myfox/MyFox/pages/sidebar_video.jsp?contentId=7680993&version=1&locale=EN-US

[One2Snoop]

Apples, where else can I find other info that was on her computer like this?

This is the forensics on Casey's computer. The pdf file is 13 pages - be sure to use the scroll down thingy on the pdf file to see all pages.

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1603690/casey-anthony-computer-report

[Notknowingall]

One thing (of many) I find interesting is that Baez said after the indictment that Casey wasn't running (or hiding...can't quite remember the quote) from this. Yet she was arrested after stopping under a bridge overpass and changing vehicles. This is all after Baez had also said she would turn herself in immediately if indicted.:punch:

[applesandorange]

This is the forensics on Casey's computer. The pdf file is 13 pages - be sure to use the scroll down thingy on the pdf file to see all pages.

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1603690/casey-anthony-computer-report


Thank you. I was away. Had my son at the dentist. Thanks for posting this for us.

[SaraSidle]

I agree. Even if she was thinking of killing Caylee I don't think she meant for it to happen when it did because of her behavior in putting the body in so many different places. If she planned the murder she would have planned where to put the body. You are right. Unless like I said before she killed her out of spite to Cindy. Then again she would not have had a plan as to where to put the body. An act out of rage would make her sporadic in her actions as well.

ETA: BTW WELCOME to the board

Excellent post a&o!!!!!!!!!!

[SaraSidle]

How did her parents' not taking a trip throw a monkey wrench into her plan? What do you think she had planned as a means of disposing Caylee's body in the first place?

Let us not forget that maybe getting rid of her parents may have been planned also. more so than Caylee

[SaraSidle]

Thank you. I was away. Had my son at the dentist. Thanks for posting this for us.

this is no excuse from now on you need to be prompt and not have O2S to do all your work.......... JK a&o. you have done an excellent job of posting here and i appreciate it. U 2 O2S

[SaraSidle]

Hi Everyone :seeya: I'm back from vacation. I spent two days cleaning my front yard, mulching, planting etc. I'm going to get that Lawn of the Month award yet! It cost me over $50 for yard supplies to get a $25 award. :shrug: but it's the sign on the lawn that counts.

So, back to business. I was answering individual postings, but then I realized I'm so behind that they were probably already answered.

Something keeps sticking in my mind - I think Caylee was killed in an act of rage. I keep thinking of how Casey left the house in a fit of anger against her mother. Cindy supposedly got physical with Casey, the neighbors heard the fight - Casey not Cindy's voice. I question George's accuracy about Casey being in the house the next morning and very calmly leaving at 1:00 with Caylee to go to the sitter's house and then to work.

I can imagine poor Caylee being frightened by her mother's fury and being out so long and wanting to go home. She was probably crying for her grandmother (Casey's own words verify that during her questioning by police). I think she wanted to make the child stop crying and used the chloroform to quiet her down. I think she was extra rough on the child as revenge against her own mother.

Casey probably was a good mother at one time, but as she saw the child growing closer to her grandmother, she developed a resentment towards Caylee. Casey is a sociopath so it was okay to have the child when it was to her advantage, but George was catching on to her and Cindy was going to take her for her own. She wouldn't let that happen. Cindy did offer to adopt the child but Casey wouldn't do it - sort of cut your nose to spite your face. No way was she going to let her mother win. So, this was premeditated. It might not have occurred when she wanted it to happen, but as long as she had a few seconds to think about it, it's first degree murder.

Gator

I am very glad you are back. I am still leaning towards accidental death. I think mom and dad were planned. too much chloroform. I hope you had a good time Gator!!!!!!!!!!!

[SaraSidle]

I understand this is supposed to be written by Cindy, but who obtained it and how?

I am sure I cannot take you to the truth but what I remember is I think that was on Caylee's myspace. I only remember it cause I found it so sad. We have a whole other thread here with lots of documention. sara

[Avad1228]

I thought the same thing as applesandorange. This girl could have used cloroform to keep caylee asleep so she could party and either not use a sitter or guarantee the baby would sleep to make it easier for someone to watch her. Then something went wrong and she was killed. Casey would not admit to this method of parenting and would also be in need of a quick disposal place of which here in florida there are many. I hate to think anyone could be so cold as to kill a child out of spite, although I am a Grandmother of a 3 and half and four year old. I do know there is evil out there. I think that is why this case bothers me so much.

[SaraSidle]

Hey Sara! Do we know much about Cindy filing for custody of Caylee? When was it suggested that she do so? The suggestion was from na therapist, right? Was this family therapy? Did Cindy ever make any strides in gaining custory? I'd love to know more about the psychological aspects of this case. Especially since it seems (to me)that G&C were totally clueless about the way that Casey functions.

Hey Loretta I just saw this. All I know is Cindy did talk to a therapist who told her to file custody of Caylee. I am thinking this conversation probably came up on Father's day 6-15 along with the Casey stealing from her grandparents which probably put Casey into a rage. We know she and Cindy were vying for Caylee's love. IMO sara

[SaraSidle]

GREAT post! You make some very valid points. It all makes sense that it could have happened that way. I too have thought it may have been a killing to spite her mother.

Excellent post Gator. If I could knock the idea out of my head that Casey's parents were first on her list I could see it. It makes perfect sense. IMO

[SaraSidle]

I thought the same thing as applesandorange. This girl could have used cloroform to keep caylee asleep so she could party and either not use a sitter or guarantee the baby would sleep to make it easier for someone to watch her. Then something went wrong and she was killed. Casey would not admit to this method of parenting and would also be in need of a quick disposal place of which here in florida there are many. I hate to think anyone could be so cold as to kill a child out of spite, although I am a Grandmother of a 3 and half and four year old. I do know there is evil out there. I think that is why this case bothers me so much.

that is why I am one of the posters who really thinks this was an accident and Casey panicked. that was her style. lying and covering up. but most people I think feel that it was on purpose. I am not there yet......I MO sara

[SaraSidle]

that is why I am one of the posters who really thinks this was an accident and Casey panicked. that was her style. lying and covering up. but most people I think feel that it was on purpose. I am not there yet....t ..I MO sara

Ok Gator. NG says Equuswearch is comin back to go search the woods area by the airport again complaining about water problems from Faye. What do you think??????/

[TOEJAM]

In your scenario, where do you think Caylee was killed? Your scenario makes some sense, but I guess I keep going back to the fact that if she planned on killing Caylee, she'd also have a plan on disposing her body, too. Unless as you and others have surmised it was done in a fit of rage without much planning at all, thus the need to move Caylee's body from place to place.


I have a daughter in law that is so much like Casey it makes my skin crawl. Fortunatly her 4 kids have were taken from her by the state before any physical harm could be done, we will have to wait and see about the mental damage that they have suffered. Like Casey there is a grain of truth in whatever the DIL says, the job is to find it...

I think that Casey killed Caylee in a fit of rage with no absolute plan of what to do with the body. From my experiance the thought pattern of people like these only go so far, so you get lie after lie to make good after the fact. Everyone know that they are lying but have no idea what really went on.

I can't tell you how much time my wife and i have spent discussing the DIL, and have come to no agreement. Where the sociopath part of her ends and her true personality begins is anyones guess but like Casey above all she is a survivor and WILL get what she wants. sorry for the long ramble....

these are my opinions only based on my painful experiance, sometimes i wish i had training in this field to make sense of it all.....

[applesandorange]

this is no excuse from now on you need to be prompt and not have O2S to do all your work.......... JK a&o. you have done an excellent job of posting here and i appreciate it. U 2 O2S


LoL!! Thanks for the compliment. BTW where have YOU been all day? LoL

[applesandorange]

I have a daughter in law that is so much like Casey it makes my skin crawl. Fortunatly her 4 kids have were taken from her by the state before any physical harm could be done, we will have to wait and see about the mental damage that they have suffered. Like Casey there is a grain of truth in whatever the DIL says, the job is to find it...

I think that Casey killed Caylee in a fit of rage with no absolute plan of what to do with the body. From my experiance the thought pattern of people like these only go so far, so you get lie after lie to make good after the fact. Everyone know that they are lying but have no idea what really went on.

I can't tell you how much time my wife and i have spent discussing the DIL, and have come to no agreement. Where the sociopath part of her ends and her true personality begins is anyones guess but like Casey above all she is a survivor and WILL get what she wants. sorry for the long ramble....

these are my opinions only based on my painful experiance, sometimes i wish i had training in this field to make sense of it all.....


I'm sorry you are dealing with someone like her. I am so glad the kids were taken before anything physically happened to them. I hope your DIL gets what's coming to her. It may not be from LE but what goes around comes around and I hope she gets hers soon.

[mu8shark]

One of its uses is as a cleaning solvent. Cleaning solvents that are mixed can cause a trace , a small showing of chloroform, however, I read an article and I will find it by an expert who said that the massive amounts described as saturating the trunk could not be a result of any cleaning agent. It was chloroform in its purest form and at one time LE confirmed this. So whatever she used to try to clean up, the chloroform readings in the trunk are not caused by that. I will go find article and post. :)

[mu8shark]

One of its uses is as a cleaning solvent.Local Chemist Calls Chloroform In Anthony's Car 'Definitive'

Sources with knowledge of the investigation told WESH 2 that air samples from Casey Anthony's car came back positive for vaporized chloroform.

"I think it's as significant or more significant than finding decomposition products," chemist Jeff Flowers said.

Flowers has testified in state and federal court as an expert and said positive tests for vaporized chloroform mean those results could not have come from cleaning products, human body fluids or a mixture of anything else. Flowers said it had to have been pure chloroform.

"It could not have come from a chemical reaction in the trunk. It's impossible. That solvent could knock out the driver of the car. It's a very dangerous thing to have that material in your car," Flowers said.

He also said that these kinds of tests to detect vaporized chloroform are very common and admissible in court.

"I can name 30 labs in Florida that are absolutely scientifically inrefutable on that test. It's a very common test," Flowers said.

[mu8shark]

Remember Casey's poem? The one line said something like what is given can be taken away. I think she may have written this to Cindy as a spiteful way of saying she killed Caylee. The poem was written IIRC after LE thinks Caylee died. That's what makes me think Casey may have killed her as an act against Cindy. Again this is all JMO. I completely agree. I think that little poem means she did it out of spite and and because she wanted desperately to take that trip to Puerto Rico with friends. I think I have set my theory out before but here goes ... I think when she and Cindy had that big fight it was about her irresponsibility and her lack of a good job to support that kid and her stealing. I also think Casey may have ask Cindy to watch Caylee when she went to Puerto Rico and after all the stealing it sent Cindy into a frenzy and she verbally reamed her. Lee also told Leonard that Cindy put her hands around Caseys throat in that fight and it scared her. I think it must have made Casey furious and she thought she would activate her little plan right away . I think her looking up missing childrens sites in March which was by the way the exact same time frame as when she and Amy began the planning for the Puerto Rico trip is a sign she was planning or thinking about getting rid of Caylee. so she could go on that trip. I think she had had it with Mommy duty. And I think the chloroform was an easy way to do it without a struggle or a mess like blood or getting a gun. Just my opinion. I think that fight set her off thus what is given can be taken away.

[SaraSidle]

I have a daughter in law that is so much like Casey it makes my skin crawl. Fortunatly her 4 kids have were taken from her by the state before any physical harm could be done, we will have to wait and see about the mental damage that they have suffered. Like Casey there is a grain of truth in whatever the DIL says, the job is to find it...

I think that Casey killed Caylee in a fit of rage with no absolute plan of what to do with the body. From my experiance the thought pattern of people like these only go so far, so you get lie after lie to make good after the fact. Everyone know that they are lying but have no idea what really went on.

I can't tell you how much time my wife and i have spent discussing the DIL, and have come to no agreement. Where the sociopath part of her ends and her true personality begins is anyones guess but like Casey above all she is a survivor and WILL get what she wants. sorry for the long ramble....

these are my opinions only based on my painful experiance, sometimes i wish i had training in this field to make sense of it all.....

Oh my goodness Toejam I am so very sorry. I cannot imagine the position you are in.One thing you have to remember is there is no real reason for your DIL. freak of nature part of the way she was raised. Psychopath/socitopath who has know morals or good/bad issues. Very much like many serial murderers and I am so sorry for your family. sara IMO

[SaraSidle]

I completely agree. I think that little poem means she did it out of spite and and because she wanted desperately to take that trip to Puerto Rico with friends. I think I have set my theory out before but here goes ... I think when she and Cindy had that big fight it was about her irresponsibility and her lack of a good job to support that kid and her stealing. I also think Casey may have ask Cindy to watch Caylee when she went to Puerto Rico and after all the stealing it sent Cindy into a frenzy and she verbally reamed her. Lee also told Leonard that Cindy put her hands around Caseys throat in that fight and it scared her. I think it must have made Casey furious and she thought she would activate her little plan right away . I think her looking up missing childrens sites in March which was by the way the exact same time frame as when she and Amy began the planning for the Puerto Rico trip is a sign she was planning or thinking about getting rid of Caylee. so she could go on that trip. I think she had had it with Mommy duty. And I think the chloroform was an easy way to do it without a struggle or a mess like blood or getting a gun. Just my opinion. I think that fight set her off thus what is given can be taken away.

Your post is wonderful and i am not arguing but seriously what if she wanted to kill her parents first so Amy could move in and Casey would inherit. this was in one of Casey's plan that seem to keep disappearing. I remember it well because how many daughters would tell their best friend that their parents are moving out so Casey and Amy can have the house??? HMMMMM

[mu8shark]

Your post is wonderful and i am not arguing but seriously what if she wanted to kill her parents first so Amy could move in and Casey would inherit. this was in one of Casey's plan that seem to keep disappearing. I remember it well because how many daughters would tell their best friend that their parents are moving out so Casey and Amy can have the house??? HMMMMMWell as for her telling her friends that story, she lies all the time to make herself look better. Remember the event planner she was at Universal. She told her friends that. Big Lie. Remember the college courses she was taking to better herself. Big Lie. So I see her telling her friends Oh yea my parents are giving me the house, as another big lie. Remember most of her lies did not pan out and people just glossed over it. I just think it would be a tall order to chloroform two adults to death and it would be really hard for her to hide those bodies, which she would have to, because if they, God forbid found her parents both dead, they would spot that chloroform. It could be of course but I think it is no coincidence she was looking up missing children and chloroform and I wonder how close together those two searches were. Hey to everyone, you guys have such good , well thought out theories, lots of bright people.

[beachbum]

Just watching NG rerun for the night and they were giving details of the jail conditions for Casey & etc. She has had no visitors or phone calls from anyone. They said no party in the jail house for Casey. Im surprised her parents havent been to see her. She has no friends. Do you all think the new witness that claims he saw Casey coming out of the woods with a shovel and bag is credible?

[TOEJAM]

I'm sorry you are dealing with someone like her. I am so glad the kids were taken before anything physically happened to them. I hope your DIL gets what's coming to her. It may not be from LE but what goes around comes around and I hope she gets hers soon.

Thank you for your kind thoughts, the DIL actually did do 40 days in a local lockup for stealing her friends welfare checks and forging them at Walmart, like i said the parallels are amazing, my wife actually diagnosed her as a narcisist sociopath by doing web research, there were also drugs involved, as i believe will come out about Casey....

unfortunatly these two women are not unique, there are a lot of people just like them out there. I work in a home for troubled teen agers and I hear and see these stories in action almost every day either from the kids themselves or their parents......

[minga]

that is why I am one of the posters who really thinks this was an accident and Casey panicked. that was her style. lying and covering up. but most people I think feel that it was on purpose. I am not there yet......I MO sara


I understand needing more information before you get to cold-blooded murder, but I agree with everyone that believes it was in a fit of rage, not well thought out and still not an accident because I think she had figured ways to rid herself of Caylee one way or another at some point in the course of her unwelcomed parenthood.

I think if it was an accident she would have some remorse IF she'd ever felt love for this child. If she'd ever felt love for this child she'd never be researching the things she was researching much less actually procure the item. I don't think she's capable of love and I don't think anything that happened to Caylee was accidental. Maybe premature, but not accidental.

But that's just my opinion. I doubt Casey will ever break but I certainly hope something happens to make her tell the truth.

[mu8shark]

Just watching NG rerun for the night and they were giving details of the jail conditions for Casey & etc. She has had no visitors or phone calls from anyone. They said no party in the jail house for Casey. Im surprised her parents havent been to see her. She has no friends. Do you all think the new witness that claims he saw Casey coming out of the woods with a shovel and bag is credible? I kind of find that guy suspcious. Nearly everything he said, the location, the bag, the shovel has all been on tv. Also why would she put that smelly bag back in the trunk when she could leave it in the woods.? Also for he and his friend to be driving by and see all that detail seems odd. I am not saying he is a phony but not many news services are picking this up and Leonard did not mention it either. I just don't know. I know Nancy seemed to believe it because there was another guy in the car with him and she said on her show the other night, two people would probably not make that up but I find that naive, esp for a former prosecutor. I mean people do tell the same story for each other and we have not even heard from the other guy. Remember Drew's buddy who told the same story for him, I am on the fence about that. Anyone else got an opinion on that?

[lorettalockhorn]

mu8shark, I'm skeptical too. For all the reasons that you mentioned, and also for the fact that assuming that those guys weren't creeping by, the woman had on a big hat. And sunglasses. And was putting a shovel into the trunk. Which meant that her back was mostly to them. How could be certain that she was or resembled Casey unless they're familiar with her arse?

Just not buying it for now.

[lorettalockhorn]

Just watching NG rerun for the night and they were giving details of the jail conditions for Casey & etc. She has had no visitors or phone calls from anyone. They said no party in the jail house for Casey. Im surprised her parents havent been to see her. She has no friends. Do you all think the new witness that claims he saw Casey coming out of the woods with a shovel and bag is credible?

Interesting that none of the family has visited. (Then again, it's been awhile since Lee has surfaced anywhere, hasn't it?) But, didn't her new death qualified attorney visit over the weekend? Cannot even remember her name.

Nancy must have been short on material tonight; they played that intro over and over and over.................

OT: Wasn't it great news that Cole from Las Vegas was found alive? Hope it's safe for him to go back home.

[One2Snoop]

BEHIND BARS: A Day In The Life Of Casey Anthony

POSTED: 4:30 pm EDT October 20, 2008
UPDATED: 5:29 pm EDT October 20, 2008

Casey Anthony is broke and lonely. Eyewitness News is taking a look inside the Orange County jail at a day in the life of Casey.

It seems even Casey's solitude won't get her to talk about her daughter Caylee. Besides a few lawyers, Casey hasn't had a single visitor.

Casey is in the Female Detention Center building along John Young Parkway near I-4. She's in a first floor cell and it's a stark existence that she might have to get used to for a long time.

Casey Anthony, high-spirited party girl, is now one of the loneliest women in Central Florida. Accused of murdering her daughter to free herself of maternal encumbrances, she now finds herself not only childless but friendless.

Casey can see out through a glass wall, but everyone else can see in.

"There is no privacy in jail," jail spokesman Allen Moore told Eyewitness News.

Casey's alone about 20 hours a day in her cell. She eats alone there. Monday it was cornflakes for breakfast, turkey hotdogs and beans for lunch, Salisbury steak and gravy and potatoes for dinner. She does get dessert three times a day if she wants.

Casey can have photographs on her shelf if she wants, but Eyewitness News was told there are no photographs, not even of Caylee.

The family she's stolen from has never put any money in her jail account, so she can't buy things like candy and diet sodas.

No one in her family has asked to visit her. She's made no phone calls.

"She reads, she sleeps," Moore said.

Casey visited her attorney six hours a day while she was out of jail on home confinement. Now she's seen her lawyers a total of only six hours in the last week since her indictment on first-degree murder.


ACCESS TO FBI LAB TESTS MAY BE DENIED

It looks like one of the court requests made by Casey's lawyer, Jose Baez, won't do any good.

A judge told Baez he could have access to view some of the forensic testing in the case. But there's a problem. The FBI is conducting the testing in their labs and the judge has no jurisdiction over the federal agency.

The FBI won't likely allow Casey's defense team into its labs.


BUSINESS JOINING SEARCH FOR CAYLEE

Even some business leaders are getting involved in the search for Caylee's body. Top management at Manheim Auto Auction in Orange County say they'll help an employee search in the woods off Boggy Creek Road near Orlando International Airport.

An employee named Paul Kovach called Eyewitness News last week saying he saw a woman who looked like Casey Anthony leave the woods with a shovel back in June.

http://www.wftv.com/news/17764362/detail.html

[One2Snoop]

Nancy Grace said Casey is allowed to have photos in her cell and there isn't a single photo of Caylee. :eek: What does that tell ya? :no:

[lighthousedazy]

Nancy Grace said Casey is allowed to have photos in her cell and there isn't a single photo of Caylee. :eek: What does that tell ya? :no:Very telling. :( It is also great about the FBI labs. In my opinion, no one can argue with these guys. Loretta, it is great about Cole. I think that Nancy stated that he is in the custody of his bio father now because of the maternal grandfather and the drugs,etc. jmo

[lorettalockhorn]

Very telling. :( It is also great about the FBI labs. In my opinion, no one can argue with these guys. Loretta, it is great about Cole. I think that Nancy stated that he is in the custody of his bio father now because of the maternal grandfather and the drugs,etc. jmo

Agree, it's just unreal that Casey doesn't have any photos of Caylee. Maybe she's waiting for G&C to bring one???

>>Cannot even remember her name. (I meant his name; her new attorney. There was a lot of talk about the horrific kinds of clients he's defended.)

Dazy, I didn't realize that Cole's biological father wasn't part of his prior living situation THAT CAUSED HIM TO BE KIDNAPPED IN THE FIRST PLACE. b@st@rds. It's great that the boy has somewhere to go other than state custody! Thanks for cluing me in.

[lighthousedazy]

I kind of find that guy suspcious. Nearly everything he said, the location, the bag, the shovel has all been on tv. Also why would she put that smelly bag back in the trunk when she could leave it in the woods.? Also for he and his friend to be driving by and see all that detail seems odd. I am not saying he is a phony but not many news services are picking this up and Leonard did not mention it either. I just don't know. I know Nancy seemed to believe it because there was another guy in the car with him and she said on her show the other night, two people would probably not make that up but I find that naive, esp for a former prosecutor. I mean people do tell the same story for each other and we have not even heard from the other guy. Remember Drew's buddy who told the same story for him, I am on the fence about that. Anyone else got an opinion on that?When I first saw this, I was so optimistic. I thought maybe this guy is to busy to read the paper or watch much TV, but I am naive some times. He did say they were looking for scrap metal and aluminum cans,(I think), so I assume they would be driving slow. He may be honest, but on Heraldo last night, he and Kimberly Gilfoyle, were giggly and said he didn't think Jose needed to worry about this witness. I do hope they are wrong, and I didn't like the way Heraldo introduced Baez as his good friend. :mad:

[TLC]

I don't believe the guy in the woods - he seems to be out for his 15 min and any $ he can get. Red sunglasses- big hat, very convenient so as not to have to describe her face. Nope. Also- don't believe her parents were the target. I thhink she did what she did to pay her mom back - she said so herself- a spiteful *****. She also said Caylee in her heart is close to home- she TOLD people, just no one knew what she was telling at the time. As for photos in her cell- she has had no visitors so unless she had an 8x10 in her pocket when she was arrested she can't have any personal items that weren't with her. Mom and Dad put $ in her jail account so they are in touch, brother lee is laying low for whatever reason. her lies about the house were to impress her friends, they were never going to pan out, it was a role she played IMO.

[NMurphy02]

sure the little drama queen as told her family she doesn't want to see them...boo hoo. Afterall her father testified at the Grand Jury hearing..wahhh..

The guy that supposedly saw Casey doesn't seem credible to me. But that's just my opinion.

What I really find telling is that you don't see aunts, uncles, cousins, whatever stating what a great mom she was/is. There have been NO other family members other then her immediate family standing by her.

[joekuhl79]

What I really find telling is that you don't see aunts, uncles, cousins, whatever stating what a great mom she was/is. There have been NO other family members other then her immediate family standing by her.

Very true...although early on, a couple people had said that she was 'a very loving mother', stuff like that...

But you're right, usually everyone comes out to say all these great things...but not for Casey!

[Gatordog]

Excellent post Gator. If I could knock the idea out of my head that Casey's parents were first on her list I could see it. It makes perfect sense. IMO

Hi SaraS,

Good to be back. I think it's possible that the truth is somewhere in between accident and planned. She might have been planning a staged break-in and robbery and kill her parents. You know - just as I'm typing this another scenario popped into my head. What if she did plan on doing away with her parents and Caylee. Could she have been planning on using the cop, Tony, as her alibi. She had been putting him off for weeks. What if she planned on using the chloroform on him or another guy she was sleeping with. If she was with him and they went to sleep together at night, she could have easily put the chloroform under his nose to really knock him out. She could have left the apartment, killed the parents in their sleep and the next morning, woke up next to Tony the Cop as her alibi for the night. She'd be collecting the insurance, have the house, and be rid of the "little snot head". The trouble is she left the house with Caylee due to the fight with Cindy and was afraid to show her face because Cindy was going to have her arrested.

Just one more theory to throw into the stew.

[Gatordog]

Local Chemist Calls Chloroform In Anthony's Car 'Definitive'

Sources with knowledge of the investigation told WESH 2 that air samples from Casey Anthony's car came back positive for vaporized chloroform.

"I think it's as significant or more significant than finding decomposition products," chemist Jeff Flowers said.

Flowers has testified in state and federal court as an expert and said positive tests for vaporized chloroform mean those results could not have come from cleaning products, human body fluids or a mixture of anything else. Flowers said it had to have been pure chloroform.

"It could not have come from a chemical reaction in the trunk. It's impossible. That solvent could knock out the driver of the car. It's a very dangerous thing to have that material in your car," Flowers said.

He also said that these kinds of tests to detect vaporized chloroform are very common and admissible in court.

"I can name 30 labs in Florida that are absolutely scientifically inrefutable on that test. It's a very common test," Flowers said.


Couldn't she use pure chloroform as a cleaning agent itself and not diluted. I believe I read that chloroform could destroy DNA. Perhaps when she was looking up chloroform on the computer, she did a preliminary search on destroying DNA in an attempt to put her plan together.

[Gatordog]

Ok Gator. NG says Equuswearch is comin back to go search the woods area by the airport again complaining about water problems from Faye. What do you think??????/


Local news did show the area on the news last week and there was standing water where there shouldn't be any water. It's no where near as bad as it was weeks ago, but it's still swampy in areas. I think they just want land to be the same or as close to the way it was in June. My mom drove by the area yesterday and two people on horseback where coming out of the path. They are checking it daily.

[Brainstorm]

Thanks Gatordog for your updates,info from the area and opinions. Say THANKS to your MOM too.

[Brainstorm]

Also, I was just thinking, MAYBE the remains ARENT too far off/down in the swamp. Casey probably is not brave enough to go into snake,gator infested places herself.
IMO.

[deputydi]

We have never used chloroform in our pool. It's never been suggested to use choroform for any purpose.

O2S, I noticed that Casey texted Amy that George almost had a stroke. Almost? That's a new one on me. :confused:

I think some people are confusing chloroform with chlorine. Chlorine is used in pools -- not chloroform! We'd have an awful lot of dead people floating in swimming pools if someone tried to purify their water with chloroform.

[Gatordog]

I kind of find that guy suspcious. Nearly everything he said, the location, the bag, the shovel has all been on tv. Also why would she put that smelly bag back in the trunk when she could leave it in the woods.? Also for he and his friend to be driving by and see all that detail seems odd. I am not saying he is a phony but not many news services are picking this up and Leonard did not mention it either. I just don't know. I know Nancy seemed to believe it because there was another guy in the car with him and she said on her show the other night, two people would probably not make that up but I find that naive, esp for a former prosecutor. I mean people do tell the same story for each other and we have not even heard from the other guy. Remember Drew's buddy who told the same story for him, I am on the fence about that. Anyone else got an opinion on that?

It didn't have to be the bag that contained the body. What if it was a bag that contained her clothes, gloves, shoes, etc. that she was wearing when she transported and buried the body? She wouldn't want to be wearing those clothes in the event she was stopped and she certainly couldn't leave them near the body. She could have changed there in the woods after disposing of the body. Those clothes could have been the clothes that were found in the car which Cindy washed. There were also boots in the car.

[Gatordog]

mu8shark, I'm skeptical too. For all the reasons that you mentioned, and also for the fact that assuming that those guys weren't creeping by, the woman had on a big hat. And sunglasses. And was putting a shovel into the trunk. Which meant that her back was mostly to them. How could be certain that she was or resembled Casey unless they're familiar with her arse?

Just not buying it for now.

Hi Loretta,

Not for nothing, but I think half of the male population in Orange County is familiar with her arse! :biggrin:

[Gatordog]

I don't believe the guy in the woods - he seems to be out for his 15 min and any $ he can get. Red sunglasses- big hat, very convenient so as not to have to describe her face. Nope. Also- don't believe her parents were the target. I thhink she did what she did to pay her mom back - she said so herself- a spiteful *****. She also said Caylee in her heart is close to home- she TOLD people, just no one knew what she was telling at the time. As for photos in her cell- she has had no visitors so unless she had an 8x10 in her pocket when she was arrested she can't have any personal items that weren't with her. Mom and Dad put $ in her jail account so they are in touch, brother lee is laying low for whatever reason. her lies about the house were to impress her friends, they were never going to pan out, it was a role she played IMO.

Perhaps the man in the woods is giving us half truths - maybe he was there but they did stop to watch the car for a few minutes to see if anyone was around. He said they were driving slowly on the side of the road to look for scrap metal. Maybe the metal he was looking at wasn't scrapped yet. Abandoned cars get stripped all the time.

[beachbum]

Hi Loretta,

Not for nothing, but I think half of the male population in Orange County is familiar with her arse! :biggrin:

You are too funny. lol. I think Casey had something up her sleeve with
her parents. She is telling her friends-her dad had a stroke, they were getting a divorce...and she told Amy they were going to deed the house over to her. None of its true. How fishy is this? Remember on the way over to pick Casey up from Tony's, Cindy was with Amy and Amy just started asking Cindy questions like are you and George getting a divorce, did George have a stroke. I think a light bulb came on for Amy at this time and probably Cindy too, that her friend had been lying to her about everything. Casey just didnt have it all figured out yet...I believe or maybe her plans werent working out as such.

[deputydi]

I kind of find that guy suspcious. Nearly everything he said, the location, the bag, the shovel has all been on tv. Also why would she put that smelly bag back in the trunk when she could leave it in the woods.? Also for he and his friend to be driving by and see all that detail seems odd. I am not saying he is a phony but not many news services are picking this up and Leonard did not mention it either. I just don't know. I know Nancy seemed to believe it because there was another guy in the car with him and she said on her show the other night, two people would probably not make that up but I find that naive, esp for a former prosecutor. I mean people do tell the same story for each other and we have not even heard from the other guy. Remember Drew's buddy who told the same story for him, I am on the fence about that. Anyone else got an opinion on that?
I'm reserving my opinion on the scrap metal guy for now. He very well may have seen what he claims, and it is also possible that he just wants his 15 min. I don't know. It is my understanding that he called LE first and didn't think they believed him so he went to the media. If this is true, it kind of makes his story credible. Also, if he has been interviewed by LE and they believe him or need to further investigate, they have probaby asked him to be quiet about what he knows. On the other hand, he certainly wouldn't be the first person to make up something just to get their picture on tv. :shrug: I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

[lorettalockhorn]

Hi Loretta,

Not for nothing, but I think half of the male population in Orange County is familiar with her arse! :biggrin:

LOL Answering a subpoena is one thing, but I'd be damned if I'd be on NG admitting it! Guess I had a hard time understanding that these guys were driving slowly enough to get a good look at the shovel girl. (If I was going to disguise myself, it wouldn't be in a big red hat and sunglasses. Hell, she couldn't have called more attention to herself if she had been wearing Groucho glasses and a mustache.)

[applesandorange]

I'm reserving my opinion on the scrap metal guy for now. He very well may have seen what he claims, and it is also possible that he just wants his 15 min. I don't know. It is my understanding that he called LE first and didn't think they believed him so he went to the media. If this is true, it kind of makes his story credible. Also, if he has been interviewed by LE and they believe him or need to further investigate, they have probaby asked him to be quiet about what he knows. On the other hand, he certainly wouldn't be the first person to make up something just to get their picture on tv. :shrug: I guess we'll just have to wait and see.


I feel the same way. I would love to believe this guy but who knows. Then again at this point would anyone really believe anybody who said they saw something? I doubt it. I think because of all the lies in the case already everyone is very skeptical and rightfully so. What we have to remember is no crime is perfect and someone somewhere seen or knows something. This could be the guy who seen something. Time will tell.

[applesandorange]

You are too funny. lol. I think Casey had something up her sleeve with
her parents. She is telling her friends-her dad had a stroke, they were getting a divorce...and she told Amy they were going to deed the house over to her. None of its true. How fishy is this? Remember on the way over to pick Casey up from Tony's, Cindy was with Amy and Amy just started asking Cindy questions like are you and George getting a divorce, did George have a stroke. I think a light bulb came on for Amy at this time and probably Cindy too, that her friend had been lying to her about everything. Casey just didnt have it all figured out yet...I believe or maybe her plans werent working out as such.


Something came to me. I too think Casey may have had a plan to get rid of her parents because of the lies she told about the stroke and so forth. What if her plan was to do away with all 3 of them, Caylee included and get rid of their bodies. She would do all of this at the same time they were supposed to be on vacation then she would tell LE "I don't know what happened, they left for vacation and never came back." If this is the case she would infact need help from somebody. There would be no way she could move George and Cindy's bodies alone. Hmmmm really makes me wonder WHY Lee wasn't included to be killed and WHY he's so quiet now. Just a thought.

[applesandorange]

Wow. How many things can happen to one person? She clearly thought, by setting up 'Zani' that she would be believed that this woman took off with her child, then disappeared. But then, your parents disappear? What about about Lee? This talk about the father's non existent stroke, the deeded house, "she's at the beach", I work at universal, blah blah is just Casey Anthony being Casey Anthony IMO. All this, while smoking enough refer to choke a horse, drinking like a fish, and planning her next conquest at the club of the week?

My question is if her family knew these 'friends' she was hanging out with, besides Amy. Did they come to the house? Only ones I knew of were Jesse and Amy. All her lies, all her life, were not really clarified. They don't even know if the guy who was supposedly killed in the car accident (let's not forget on his way to Caylee's birthday party!) was really even Caylee's dad! A lot of bad luck befallen on one person, and I'm just not feeling it.

I also don't thiink she has the ba**s or the smarts to carry it off... MHO

I really don't think Casey knows who the dad is. She IMO is waaayyyy too much about money. If she knew who the bio father was she sure as heck would have taken him for child support quicker than anything. Think about it... free money AND most likely every other weekend without the "little snot head".

[One2Snoop]

Mom of missing girl won't face neglect charge

Associated Press - October 21, 2008 10:04 AM ET

ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) - Orange County officials will not pursue child neglect charges against the mother of a missing Florida girl because she is already charged with first-degree murder.

The child neglect charges were based on the assumption that Caylee Anthony was still alive, according a court media release. Casey Anthony has also been charged with aggravated manslaughter and four counts of lying to investigators.

Lawson Lamar, the State Attorney prosecuting the case, declined further comment. Officials said in the release that they don't wish to feed a media frenzy that would lead to a change of venue.

Caylee Anthony was last seen in June but her mother did not report her missing until July. A body has not been recovered.

http://www.mysuncoast.com/Global/story.asp?S=9212076&nav=menu577_2_1

[applesandorange]

Mom of missing girl won't face neglect charge

Associated Press - October 21, 2008 10:04 AM ET

ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) - Orange County officials will not pursue child neglect charges against the mother of a missing Florida girl because she is already charged with first-degree murder.

The child neglect charges were based on the assumption that Caylee Anthony was still alive, according a court media release. Casey Anthony has also been charged with aggravated manslaughter and four counts of lying to investigators.

Lawson Lamar, the State Attorney prosecuting the case, declined further comment. Officials said in the release that they don't wish to feed a media frenzy that would lead to a change of venue.

Caylee Anthony was last seen in June but her mother did not report her missing until July. A body has not been recovered.

http://www.mysuncoast.com/Global/story.asp?S=9212076&nav=menu577_2_1


Thanks. I was wondering about this.

[deputydi]

Good afternoon all! Before I run out to get something for this sinus headache I wanted to pass on a couple of thoughts and throw something at you all....
Found myself with a smug smirk upon finding there is no one visiting the ice princess except for her newest addition to counsel. As for George leaving La iceberg 50 bucks to go buy candy, what can we say..I often think of how it felt for this man to have told LE, and the grand jury, (very honestly and vividly) of his conversations with his daughter...it's more than Cindy has done since she made that initial phone call. Her story changed from bad mommy (her posting) to 'my wonderful daughter'.

I reread transcripts from NG regarding chloroform, Gator, and Kobe was very clear that they used it in labs to Isolate DNA, and to clean up specimans. It wouldn't ruin it.

This 'witness' who claims he saw Casey (alledgedly) coming out of the woods could be cashing in on his 15 min, but then again ...we can only pray their search will put Caylee to rest. The bag she was carrying makes sense. You see, you have to understand the mentality (or lack of) of the person we are profiling....Casey is not book smart, she is Street Smart. That is a trait most criminals have in common.
Instinctually, and intuitively, then know what and how to lie to others for their own benefit. They know how to get around situations. How do you think no one really questioned all those lies she told, so convincingly? You know, the average person couldn't lie so well! Casey knew that plastic bag has her fingerprints! After waiting a month to tell her family about Caylee, that evidence (hat?sunglasses?) has been in the dump for just as long. Gone. She knew That. What her little brain could not know was about the fluid on the pizza bag, and maybe, just maybe, you cannot smell the chloroform after it evaporates (if the cloth used was thrown out also)... There' more,but I'm running out for awhile, and I'll check in on you guys!:seeya:
Your observations are right on the money. I can't even imagine the tension in the Anthony home right now. Cindy refuses to get her head out of the bucket and her turn about in attitude (and her stubbornness) really baffles me. How long can one be in denial?

[applesandorange]

Your observations are right on the money. I can't even imagine the tension in the Anthony home right now. Cindy refuses to get her head out of the bucket and her turn about in attitude (and her stubbornness) really baffles me. How long can one be in denial?


I'm not sure it's denial. It seems more like an inability to admit she's wrong.

[One2Snoop]

Tuesday, October 21, 2008 4:26 pm EDT
Lawyer With Death Penalty Experience Joins Casey Anthony Team

ORANGE COUNTY, Fla. -- Casey Anthony's rookie lawyer is getting some help. Jose Baez doesn't have the credentials to try a death penalty case, so he's enlisted the help of a Miami lawyer who's defended some brutal murderers.

Miami criminal defense attorney Terence Lenamon has joined the Casey Anthony defense team. Two of the three high-profile murderers Eyewitness News knows he's defended are on death row. The other is serving five consecutive life sentences.

Terence Lenamon would not talk to Eyewitness News on Tuesday. He's now part of accused killer Casey Anthony's defense team. She could face the death penalty for the murder of her daughter Caylee. Her attorney, Jose Baez, is not qualified to handle death penalty cases, but Lenamon is.

Lenamon is a highly-rated defense attorney. Still, two of three high-profile murderers he's defended in recent years are on Florida's death row.

One of them is known as "The Miami Stranger." Harrel Franklin Braddy, 59, was sent to death row last year for literally feeding little Quatisha Maycock to the alligators in the Everglades after strangling her mother and leaving her for dead. The jury voted 11-1 for death. Braddy had already been convicted of choking a corrections officer. Lenamon had tried to convince the jury the little girl's murder was not intentional, but "a horrible mistake".

Two months ago, a jury voted 8-4 to send another of Lenamon's clients to death row, 31-year-old Wadada Delhall, for murdering a key witness who testified against his brother in a murder case.

One of his high-profile Miami murder clients did escape the death penalty. Cesar Mena, 29, a member of the so-called "Orlando Boys," who raped and killed Ana Maria Angel and stabbed her high school sweetheart, is serving five consecutive life sentences.

Casey's defense attorney keeps insisting Caylee is still alive, even though a grand jury indicted her for premeditated murder after hearing the evidence the FBI and Orange County sheriff's investigators have against her.

If Caylee's body is not found before trial, it's unlikely Baez will need help from a death penalty-qualified attorney, because without a body there probably would be no push for the death penalty.


http://www.wftv.com/news/17772386/detail.html

[applesandorange]

Right on a&o! If she had half a brain, or even if she knew who Caylee's dad was she would have laid it on him...child support, and having free weekends might have given her the freedom she so desired. C & G still would have bankrolled whatever else.........

Her family believed her story about the car accident, and my earlier post pointed to the fact that her friends never got to discuss anything with her family because they never met (or saw them). So, she was able to continue one lie after another, and no one caught on.


I wonder if her never letting any of her friends meet her family was in a way Casey thinking her family is already dead. She probably much preferred the company of friends to the company of her family. She just used her family for money, sitter and a place to live. In Casey's mind wouldn't she be so much better off if her parents and child died and she got the house, inheritance AND got to live with her best friend Amy?

[lorettalockhorn]

Your observations are right on the money. I can't even imagine the tension in the Anthony home right now. Cindy refuses to get her head out of the bucket and her turn about in attitude (and her stubbornness) really baffles me. How long can one be in denial?

dd, you are too kind. :seeya: I nevah would have described Cindy as having her head in a bucket.

Seriously, I don't know whether to feel sorry for her or not. I truly hold her at least partially to blame for what has transpired.

[applesandorange]

re : Cindy and denial....I still think this woman is having a melt down and can't think straight. She just keeps repeating the same thing over and over, as if to convince Herself.

MOO


You could be right. To me though she is far too much like Casey to having a melt down and can't think straight. I think she keeps repeating the same thing in order to reassure herself that she's right thoigh. JMO.

[joekuhl79]

I really don't think Casey knows who the dad is. She IMO is waaayyyy too much about money. If she knew who the bio father was she sure as heck would have taken him for child support quicker than anything. Think about it... free money AND most likely every other weekend without the "little snot head".

You're absolutely right...I hadn't thought of that.

I know it's been said and dismissed, but every little thing like that hints that the father could be Lee...

[One2Snoop]

All she had to do was go on Maury or Springer's shows. Testing done free of charge. It would have been a whole week tho of "Who's Your Daddy":rolleyes:

ROFL - I bet at least a month is more like it.

[deacon]

IMO Cindy's personality is quite like casey's. People like that have a very hard time admitting they are wrong. About anything but specially about her daughter who she has to know is just like her in personality. I don't think it is denial, just refusing to admit she is/was wrong

[applesandorange]

You're absolutely right...I hadn't thought of that.

I know it's been said and dismissed, but every little thing like that hints that the father could be Lee...


I know. I thought about that too.

[deputydi]

dd, you are too kind. :seeya: I nevah would have described Cindy as having her head in a bucket.

Seriously, I don't know whether to feel sorry for her or not. I truly hold her at least partially to blame for what has transpired.
Well, I was afraid of getting in trouble if I used the phrase I was really thinking. LOL.

[beachbum]

Well I think we have all thought about Casey sleeping with her bro Lee.
Sure is funny she named her CayLEE but I hate to think she was that out of control or he was that out of control but they aren't exactly the Leave it to Beaver Family you know. (just sick) I have always wondered you know if the real daddy was dead or they just didnt really know who he was or didnt want to go through with all that a paternity suit could involve or that by not naming him daddy ....Cindy had more control over Casey and the baby. Im sure Cindy knew Casey wasnt ready to settle down. Or maybe it was Lee's therefore they didnt want to go public with it. Who knows this family is not normal. Casey is so Springer! JMO!

[grneyes]

Well I think we have all thought about Casey sleeping with her bro Lee.
Sure is funny she named her CayLEE but I hate to think she was that out of control or he was that out of control but they aren't exactly the Leave it to Beaver Family you know. (just sick) I have always wondered you know if the real daddy was dead or they just didnt really know who he was or didnt want to go through with all that a paternity suit could involve or that by not naming him daddy ....Cindy had more control over Casey and the baby. Im sure Cindy knew Casey wasnt ready to settle down. Or maybe it was Lee's therefore they didnt want to go public with it. Who knows this family is not normal. Casey is so Springer! JMO!

What's unusual about that? I named 2 of my boys after 2 of my brothers and my daughter has the middle name of the third. Lots of families name their kids after relatives. As much as I think Casey should rot in prison for what she's done to her baby, that doesn't mean she slept with her brother.

I do wonder if they were close enough that he may have helped her cover the crime though....

[applesandorange]

What's unusual about that? I named 2 of my boys after 2 of my brothers and my daughter has the middle name of the third. Lots of families name their kids after relatives. As much as I think Casey should rot in prison for what she's done to her baby, that doesn't mean she slept with her brother.

I do wonder if they were close enough that he may have helped her cover the crime though....


I don't think her naming Caylee after Lee is unusual. I know people who have named their children after their siblings.

[minga]

What's unusual about that? I named 2 of my boys after 2 of my brothers and my daughter has the middle name of the third. Lots of families name their kids after relatives. As much as I think Casey should rot in prison for what she's done to her baby, that doesn't mean she slept with her brother.

I do wonder if they were close enough that he may have helped her cover the crime though....

Who knows whether Casey slept with Lee or not, but I could see her doing it for the thrill of it. She wouldn't have any qualms about who she slept with and she might even think it was really and seriously cool to do because it's so socially unacceptable. Would she really care who she slept with? Nah. I would think anyone she could bed would be another notch on the bedpost. It was probably her bartering tool. This family is nowhere near normal...way, way out in left field to be exact.

She could possibly have a line she wouldn't cross, but I doubt it.

JMO

[SaraSidle]

I agree. Even if she was thinking of killing Caylee I don't think she meant for it to happen when it did because of her behavior in putting the body in so many different places. If she planned the murder she would have planned where to put the body. You are right. Unless like I said before she killed her out of spite to Cindy. Then again she would not have had a plan as to where to put the body. An act out of rage would make her sporadic in her actions as well.

ETA: BTW WELCOME to the board

ITA a&i, excellent post. Makes perfect sense. IMO sara

[SaraSidle]

[/B]


I wonder if her never letting any of her friends meet her family was in a way Casey thinking her family is already dead. She probably much preferred the company of friends to the company of her family. She just used her family for money, sitter and a place to live. In Casey's mind wouldn't she be so much better off if her parents and child died and she got the house, inheritance AND got to live with her best friend Amy?

a&o again ITA, wonderful post........IMO sara