Anyway to close an account?

[carlybarly]

Some idiot from Israel (according to the ip sent to me) keeps trying to login with my name over and over. Of couse when this idiot does this I get a message that my account will be locked. I'm not on my computer 24/7 so I'm afraid this is going to happen when I'm offline. How can I just close this account and create a new one? This is really irking me too, why would tey need to use MY name to post? Just make up one, it isn't hard!

[One2Snoop]

Some idiot from Israel (according to the ip sent to me) keeps trying to login with my name over and over. Of couse when this idiot does this I get a message that my account will be locked. I'm not on my computer 24/7 so I'm afraid this is going to happen when I'm offline. How can I just close this account and create a new one? This is really irking me too, why would tey need to use MY name to post? Just make up one, it isn't hard!

Are you saying you've received that message from this forum, Crime Library? or did you mean In Session? You're not the only one this has happened to. It appears hackers have targeted sites that use the vBulletin software for their forums. They don't have your password and it's nothing you've done. If your account does get locked then just create a new one or email the administrator of the site.

[Canadian Bum]

Hi everyone :seeya: I recieved an e-mail supposidly from here Crime Library @ yahoo :confused: I did not open it.

[One2Snoop]

Hi everyone :seeya: I recieved an e-mail supposidly from here Crime Library @ yahoo :confused: I did not open it.

:eek: I think its safe to open the email just don't click on any of the links. I'd like to know what it says and if there's an IP number listed. If you don't want to open it I'll pm my email address to you and you can forward it to me.

[Mother HEN]

:eek: I think its safe to open the email just don't click on any of the links. I'd like to know what it says and if there's an IP number listed. If you don't want to open it I'll pm my email address to you and you can forward it to me.

Why would anyone want to sent an e-mail to YOU? Who are YOU? What will you do with the information you obtain in this way? Are you connected to truTV in some way?

The now-fired "freshwater" also asked for e-mails to be sent to his/her off-site e-mail address. What was done with the information harvested at that time?

(I hope anyone considering sending this poster an e-mail address will reconsider.)


:no:

[One2Snoop]

Why would anyone want to sent an e-mail to YOU? Who are YOU? What will you do with the information you obtain in this way? Are you connected to truTV in some way?

The now-fired "freshwater" also asked for e-mails to be sent to his/her off-site e-mail address. What was done with the information harvested at that time?

(I hope anyone considering sending this poster an e-mail address will reconsider.)


:no:

Too weird. CB knows who I am - and if she so chooses to send me the email I left that up to her. Now what the hell do you think I'm going to do with that info other than report it to Deepwater. Sheesh. You are one paranoid individual. :rolleyes:

[Mother HEN]

You are one paranoid individual. :rolleyes:

Go :punch: yourself.


Odd to call me "paranoid" when posters are receiving odd e-mails, like the one I just received telling me my access to an online bank was denied. (A bank in another country where I have no account.)


And odd to be asking other posters to send you e-mails. If you're planning to "report it to Deepwater", whoever that may be, why not ask him/her the simple question: Why don't the "coldwaters" post HERE, explaining what is going on at insessions?

[One2Snoop]

anyone whose interested or would like to know whats been going on concerning different message boards and the hackers can read about it here....

http://helpfindthemissing.org/forum/showthread.php?t=6312

Of course you better be careful about clicking on that link, you just never know! :rolleyes: :beer: :biggrin:

[One2Snoop]

Go :punch: yourself.


Odd to call me "paranoid" when posters are receiving odd e-mails, like the one I just received telling me my access to an online bank was denied. (A bank in another country where I have no account.)


And odd to be asking other posters to send you e-mails. If you're planning to "report it to Deepwater", whoever that may be, why not ask him/her the simple question: Why don't the "coldwaters" post HERE, explaining what is going on at insessions?

Why don't you email and ask her.

[Mother HEN]

anyone whose interested or would like to know whats been going on concerning different message boards and the hackers can read about it here....

http://he lpfind themissi ng.org/forum/s howthread.php?t=6312

Of course you better be careful about clicking on that link, you just never know! :rol leyes: :b eer: :big grin:

Why would anyone at that site, whatever it is, know anything about truTV's message boards?

:punch:


(Agree that anyone thinking of "clicking on that link" should be careful.)

[Mother HEN]

Why don't you email and ask her.

YOU do it.

:punch:

[Canadian Bum]

Why would anyone want to sent an e-mail to YOU? Who are YOU? What will you do with the information you obtain in this way? Are you connected to truTV in some way?

The now-fired "freshwater" also asked for e-mails to be sent to his/her off-site e-mail address. What was done with the information harvested at that time?

(I hope anyone considering sending this poster an e-mail address will reconsider.)


:no: Trust must be earned and O2S has earned my trust!

[Mother HEN]

Trust must be earned and O2S has earned my trust!

There were posters who fell for "freshwater's" pitch, too, and sent personal information to his/her off-site e-mail address.

(And where is "freshwater" now? Strolling down suckamore street, begging for donations?)

[Canadian Bum]

There were posters who fell for "freshwater's" pitch, too, and sent personal information to his/her off-site e-mail address.

(And where is "freshwater" now? Strolling down suckamore street, begging for donations?) I guess that's their buisness, I know of no harm being done to anyone.

[CindyB]

I received these today. I'd sure like to know who this IP address belongs to???


Dear CindyB,

Your account on Crime Library Message Boards has been locked because someone has tried to log into the account with the wrong password more than 5 times. You will be able to attempt to log in again in another 15 minutes.

The person trying to log into your account had the following IP address: 212.143.129.220

Don't forget that the password is case sensitive. Forgotten your password? Use the link below:
http://boards.library.trutv.com//login.php?do=lostpw (http://boards.library.trutv.com/login.php?do=lostpw)

All the best,
Crime Library Message Boards
_______________________________________

Dear CindyB,

Your account on Crime Library Message Boards has been locked because someone has tried to log into the account with the wrong password more than 5 times. You will be able to attempt to log in again in another 15 minutes.

The person trying to log into your account had the following IP address: 212.143.129.219

Don't forget that the password is case sensitive. Forgotten your password? Use the link below:
http://boards.library.trutv.com//login.php?do=lostpw (http://boards.library.trutv.com/login.php?do=lostpw)

All the best,
Crime Library Message Boards

[One2Snoop]

Thanks CB for the info. I tried to respond to your pm but it says your box is full. Thats the same IP the hackers used at the other sites.

Same goes with your email Cindy - its the same IP.

[Buckethead]

I received the same email, twice now. I too would like to know exactly what's going on. I've been told the IP is from Isreal.

I received these today. I'd sure like to know who this IP address belongs to???


Dear CindyB,

Your account on Crime Library Message Boards has been locked because someone has tried to log into the account with the wrong password more than 5 times. You will be able to attempt to log in again in another 15 minutes.

The person trying to log into your account had the following IP address: 212.143.129.220

Don't forget that the password is case sensitive. Forgotten your password? Use the link below:
http://boards.library.trutv.com//login.php?do=lostpw (http://boards.library.trutv.com/login.php?do=lostpw)

All the best,
Crime Library Message Boards
_______________________________________

Dear CindyB,

Your account on Crime Library Message Boards has been locked because someone has tried to log into the account with the wrong password more than 5 times. You will be able to attempt to log in again in another 15 minutes.

The person trying to log into your account had the following IP address: 212.143.129.219

Don't forget that the password is case sensitive. Forgotten your password? Use the link below:
http://boards.library.trutv.com//login.php?do=lostpw (http://boards.library.trutv.com/login.php?do=lostpw)

All the best,
Crime Library Message Boards

[One2Snoop]

Why would anyone at that site, whatever it is, know anything about truTV's message boards?

:punch:


(Agree that anyone thinking of "clicking on that link" should be careful.)

Uhhhh maybe because they're talking about it there. If and when you ever decide to click on the link you might find that out. :punch: :rolleyes:

[One2Snoop]

YOU do it.

:punch:

:rolleyes: I'm not the one who wants to know. :seeya:

[One2Snoop]

I guess that's their buisness, I know of no harm being done to anyone.

ITA CB. :beer:

[Mother HEN]

Uhhhh maybe because they're talking about it there. If and when you ever decide to click on the link you might find that out. :pun c h: :r ol l eyes:

Who is "talking about it there"? Posters on a message board? If they're psychic, they should have no problem finding the missing.


Do the hackers see the passwords?

[Mother HEN]

:rolleyes: I'm not the one who wants to know. :seeya:

You're the one who asked for e-mails to be forwarded to you?

[One2Snoop]

anyone whose interested or would like to know whats been going on concerning different message boards and the hackers can read about it here....

http://helpfindthemissing.org/forum/showthread.php?t=6312

Of course you better be careful about clicking on that link, you just never know! :rolleyes: :beer: :biggrin:

I received the same email, twice now. I too would like to know exactly what's going on. I've been told the IP is from Isreal.

Buckethead you can read about the hacking that took place at Helpfindthemissing and Insession/Trutv at the link I provided above.

[One2Snoop]

Go :punch: yourself.


Odd to call me "paranoid" when posters are receiving odd e-mails, like the one I just received telling me my access to an online bank was denied. (A bank in another country where I have no account.)


And odd to be asking other posters to send you e-mails. If you're planning to "report it to Deepwater", whoever that may be, why not ask him/her the simple question: Why don't the "coldwaters" post HERE, explaining what is going on at insessions?

Why don't you email and ask her.

YOU do it.

:punch:

:rolleyes: I'm not the one who wants to know. :seeya:

You're the one who asked for e-mails to be forwarded to you?

:rolleyes: I believe you're confused. What does that have to do with you wanting the "cold waters" to post here and explain whats going on. :seeya:

[Reckless]

:rolleyes: I believe you're confused. What does that have to do with you wanting the "cold waters" to post here and explain whats going on. :seeya:I'm just happy that CW does NOT post here!!! :biggrin:

[Reckless]

I received the same email, twice now. I too would like to know exactly what's going on. I've been told the IP is from Isreal.The IP that was sent in the email was from Israel, but it may or may not have been rerouted. Most important is do not reply to the email link provided.

[Reckless]

Who is "talking about it there"? Posters on a message board? If they're psychic, they should have no problem finding the missing.


Do the hackers see the passwords?They can if they are keylogging or if you are dumb enough to reply to the email thereby giving them your email addy and password.

[FDInLaw]

Oh snot! So we are getting hacked too! :mad:

[FDInLaw]

Why would anyone want to sent an e-mail to YOU? Who are YOU? What will you do with the information you obtain in this way? Are you connected to truTV in some way?

The now-fired "freshwater" also asked for e-mails to be sent to his/her off-site e-mail address. What was done with the information harvested at that time?

(I hope anyone considering sending this poster an e-mail address will reconsider.)


:no:
Your nic fits you well. . . you sure like to "spank" and wave your finger a lot! :biggrin:

For the record, if you can't trust O2S, you can't trust ANYONE! :patriot:

http://boards.crimelibrary.com/memberlist.php?&order=DESC&sort=reputation&pp=25

[Reckless]

Your nic fits you well. . . you sure like to "spank" and wave your finger a lot! :biggrin:

For the record, if you can't trust O2S, you can't trust ANYONE! :patriot:

http://boards.crimelibrary.com/memberlist.php?&order=DESC&sort=reputation&pp=25Good post, FD. ITA :beer:

[Mother HEN]

Your nic fits you well. . . you sure like to "spank" and wave your finger a lot! :biggrin:

For the record, if you can't trust O2S, you can't trust ANYONE! :patriot:

http://boards.crimelibrary.com/memberlist.php?&order=DESC&sort=reputation&pp=25

:no: :no: :no:

A list of posters with "reputation" is supposed to prove what?

(Two people on that list are among the ten nastiest posters I've ever encountered on message boards.)

Idiotic to think you can "trust" an anonymous and invisible poster on a message board. You don't know if the person you "trust" is male or female, old or young, free or incarcerated, etc.

:no: :no: :no:

[FDInLaw]

:no: :no: :no:

A list of posters with "reputation" is supposed to prove what?

(Two people on that list are among the ten nastiest posters I've ever encountered on message boards.)

Idiotic to think you can "trust" an anonymous and invisible poster on a message board. You don't know if the person you "trust" is male or female, old or young, free or incarcerated, etc.

:no: :no: :no:
Now, I'm going to have to agree in part. . . there is one poster in the top ten that I don't trust either. :seeya:

[Mother HEN]

Results? (Is that supposed to be a picture of "freshwater"?)

[FDInLaw]

Results? (Is that supposed to be a picture of "freshwater"?)
Her profile pic is of a young missing woman. . . TARA :rose:


Have you posted under a different nic over on CTV (In Sessions)??? I feel like I know you. :shrug:

[Mother HEN]

Her profile pic is of a young missing woman. . . TARA :rose:


Have you posted under a different nic over on CTV (In Sessions)??? I feel like I know you. :shrug:


Oh, sorry. No offense to Tara. (Is "fresh" a young African-American man?)

[FDInLaw]

Oh, sorry. No offense to Tara. (Is "fresh" a young African-American man?)

No, haven't you seen her cyber-self over on 320??? Even if I liked the woman, I doubt I would post much. . . that pop-up thing is beyond annoying!

[FDInLaw]

Her profile pic is of a young missing woman. . . TARA :rose:


Have you posted under a different nic over on CTV (In Sessions)??? I feel like I know you. :shrug: Feel free to PM me an answer. :biggrin:

[Mother HEN]

No, haven't you seen her cyber-self over on 320??? Even if I liked the woman, I doubt I would post much. . . that pop-up thing is beyond annoying!

Yes, but I don't believe that's really the same person. When s/he was here, the avatar was of a young man with light/dark (depending on point of view) skin and a fedora.

I risked visiting suckamore street once. Various aspects were not yet functioning, but the donation thing was up and running. It looked like a dud.

[FDInLaw]

Yes, but I don't believe that's really the same person. When s/he was here, the avatar was of a young man with light/dark (depending on point of view) skin and a fedora.

I risked visiting suckamore street once. Various aspects were not yet functioning, but the donation thing was up and running. It looked like a dud.
Results and Freshwater are not the same person.

[Mother HEN]

Results and Freshwater are not the same person.

Oh.


:seeya:

[FDInLaw]

Oh.


:seeya:
Now, don't you go trusting what I post. :no:













LMBO! :D

[One2Snoop]

:no: :no: :no:

A list of posters with "reputation" is supposed to prove what?

(Two people on that list are among the ten nastiest posters I've ever encountered on message boards.)

Idiotic to think you can "trust" an anonymous and invisible poster on a message board. You don't know if the person you "trust" is male or female, old or young, free or incarcerated, etc.

:no: :no: :no:

Are you by chance on that list of the 10 nastiest posters? :biggrin: I really could care less what you think of me. I've done my part and everyone here has been warned about what's going on and that's all I care about. :seeya:

[SaraSidle]

Are you by chance on that list of the 10 nastiest posters? :biggrin: I really could care less what you think of me. I've done my part and everyone here has been warned about what's going on and that's all I care about. :seeya:

I know you do not care One2Snoop but I do. When InSessions was hacked last weekend you started helping people out right away with the phony emails about being logged on 5 times. You helped find out who was doing it and you let everyone know the link at hftm where all the InSessions people were gathering and getting updated. Mother Hen has obviously not been in any loops this week and IMO really should not be posting to you like that. I have always respected One2Snoop and even more now after this last week.
Again thanks One2Snoop for helping everyone. IMO

[grneyes]

I know you do not care One2Snoop but I do. When InSessions was hacked last weekend you started helping people out right away with the phony emails about being logged on 5 times. You helped find out who was doing it and you let everyone know the link at hftm where all the InSessions people were gathering and getting updated. Mother Hen has obviously not been in any loops this week and IMO really should not be posting to you like that. I have always respected One2Snoop and even more now after this last week.
Again thanks One2Snoop for helping everyone. IMO

ITA! :beer:

O2S is always on the ball to help people on here.

[CrazyDave]

Here are some things to think about for everyone was concerned about message boards being hacked!
1. What is to be gained by disrupting the Internet?
2. Who would have a motive to do this?
3. Why attack via message boards?
4. How vulnerable are you personally?
5. What responsibility do you need to take upon yourself to protect your self?

These are my suggestions to my questions.
1. Many people in the World today use the Internet for communication, information, and business transactions. Disruption of our daily commerce and communications would be detrimental to our economy. Interruption of dissemination of information to the public could cause adverse and detrimental repercussions globally. This would leave society in the worst scenario.
2. My opinion is that anyone wanting to divert scrupulous attention from whatever agenda they might have, to a contrived crisis that would take the public into a frenzy of the fear. I would consider this a form of terrorism, a common tactic in the world that we live in today.
3. Computers are running, and unattended for many hours in the day. Most are visited briefly, and many users are not conscious of how many sites they have open. A virus that gets onto a computer is just like a social disease, you do not know when you have it and do not know who you are going give it to until it’s too late. Can you think of a better way to attack your enemy and let them destroy themselves internally?
4. We all know that we need to keep updated on all of our Internet firewalls, virus protection, anti spam and anti fishing programs. This needs to be the first line of defense for our computer security, and the security of our personal information.
5. Run your security updates daily; run them only from a trusted source with which you are familiar. Always run a scan prior to logging on to your computer for the day. Never open a link on an e-mail that your not familiar with, or that your security system advises you not to. Remember that curiosity killed the cat. Do not let the curiosity outweigh your common sense.

[One2Snoop]

Here are some things to think about for everyone was concerned about message boards being hacked!
1. What is to be gained by disrupting the Internet?
2. Who would have a motive to do this?
3. Why attack via message boards?
4. How vulnerable are you personally?
5. What responsibility do you need to take upon yourself to protect your self?

These are my suggestions to my questions.
1. Many people in the World today use the Internet for communication, information, and business transactions. Disruption of our daily commerce and communications would be detrimental to our economy. Interruption of dissemination of information to the public could cause adverse and detrimental repercussions globally. This would leave society in the worst scenario.
2. My opinion is that anyone wanting to divert scrupulous attention from whatever agenda they might have, to a contrived crisis that would take the public into a frenzy of the fear. I would consider this a form of terrorism, a common tactic in the world that we live in today.
3. Computers are running, and unattended for many hours in the day. Most are visited briefly, and many users are not conscious of how many sites they have open. A virus that gets onto a computer is just like a social disease, you do not know when you have it and do not know who you are going give it to until it’s too late. Can you think of a better way to attack your enemy and let them destroy themselves internally?
4. We all know that we need to keep updated on all of our Internet firewalls, virus protection, anti spam and anti fishing programs. This needs to be the first line of defense for our computer security, and the security of our personal information.
5. Run your security updates daily; run them only from a trusted source with which you are familiar. Always run a scan prior to logging on to your computer for the day. Never open a link on an e-mail that your not familiar with, or that your security system advises you not to. Remember that curiosity killed the cat. Do not let the curiosity outweigh your common sense.

Thank you CrazyDave and ITA, thats very good advice! :beer:

[Maybaby59]

I know you do not care One2Snoop but I do. When InSessions was hacked last weekend you started helping people out right away with the phony emails about being logged on 5 times. You helped find out who was doing it and you let everyone know the link at hftm where all the InSessions people were gathering and getting updated. Mother Hen has obviously not been in any loops this week and IMO really should not be posting to you like that. I have always respected One2Snoop and even more now after this last week.
Again thanks One2Snoop for helping everyone. IMO

ITA! Thanks One2...you've helped me many times and I appreciate it...:rose:

[Maybaby59]

Thank you, CrazyDave...and welcome to Crime Library! :)


Here are some things to think about for everyone was concerned about message boards being hacked!
1. What is to be gained by disrupting the Internet?
2. Who would have a motive to do this?
3. Why attack via message boards?
4. How vulnerable are you personally?
5. What responsibility do you need to take upon yourself to protect your self?

These are my suggestions to my questions.
1. Many people in the World today use the Internet for communication, information, and business transactions. Disruption of our daily commerce and communications would be detrimental to our economy. Interruption of dissemination of information to the public could cause adverse and detrimental repercussions globally. This would leave society in the worst scenario.
2. My opinion is that anyone wanting to divert scrupulous attention from whatever agenda they might have, to a contrived crisis that would take the public into a frenzy of the fear. I would consider this a form of terrorism, a common tactic in the world that we live in today.
3. Computers are running, and unattended for many hours in the day. Most are visited briefly, and many users are not conscious of how many sites they have open. A virus that gets onto a computer is just like a social disease, you do not know when you have it and do not know who you are going give it to until it’s too late. Can you think of a better way to attack your enemy and let them destroy themselves internally?
4. We all know that we need to keep updated on all of our Internet firewalls, virus protection, anti spam and anti fishing programs. This needs to be the first line of defense for our computer security, and the security of our personal information.
5. Run your security updates daily; run them only from a trusted source with which you are familiar. Always run a scan prior to logging on to your computer for the day. Never open a link on an e-mail that your not familiar with, or that your security system advises you not to. Remember that curiosity killed the cat. Do not let the curiosity outweigh your common sense.

[carlybarly]

Yea it was just like CindyB's email, same ip address. Two emails actually. Luckily that was it. Thanks everyone for responding, if I do get locked out, I'll just create a new account :)

[Reckless]

Here are some things to think about for everyone was concerned about message boards being hacked!
1. What is to be gained by disrupting the Internet?
2. Who would have a motive to do this?
3. Why attack via message boards?
4. How vulnerable are you personally?
5. What responsibility do you need to take upon yourself to protect your self?

These are my suggestions to my questions.
1. Many people in the World today use the Internet for communication, information, and business transactions. Disruption of our daily commerce and communications would be detrimental to our economy. Interruption of dissemination of information to the public could cause adverse and detrimental repercussions globally. This would leave society in the worst scenario.
2. My opinion is that anyone wanting to divert scrupulous attention from whatever agenda they might have, to a contrived crisis that would take the public into a frenzy of the fear. I would consider this a form of terrorism, a common tactic in the world that we live in today.
3. Computers are running, and unattended for many hours in the day. Most are visited briefly, and many users are not conscious of how many sites they have open. A virus that gets onto a computer is just like a social disease, you do not know when you have it and do not know who you are going give it to until it’s too late. Can you think of a better way to attack your enemy and let them destroy themselves internally?
4. We all know that we need to keep updated on all of our Internet firewalls, virus protection, anti spam and anti fishing programs. This needs to be the first line of defense for our computer security, and the security of our personal information.
5. Run your security updates daily; run them only from a trusted source with which you are familiar. Always run a scan prior to logging on to your computer for the day. Never open a link on an e-mail that your not familiar with, or that your security system advises you not to. Remember that curiosity killed the cat. Do not let the curiosity outweigh your common sense.Good advice, Crazy Dave. Thanks for posting and welcome to CL.

[cookiewench]

I received these today. I'd sure like to know who this IP address belongs to???


Dear CindyB,

Your account on Crime Library Message Boards has been locked because someone has tried to log into the account with the wrong password more than 5 times. You will be able to attempt to log in again in another 15 minutes.

The person trying to log into your account had the following IP address: 212.143.129.220

Don't forget that the password is case sensitive. Forgotten your password? Use the link below:
http://boards.library.trutv.com//login.php?do=lostpw (http://boards.library.trutv.com/login.php?do=lostpw)

All the best,
Crime Library Message Boards
_______________________________________

Dear CindyB,

Your account on Crime Library Message Boards has been locked because someone has tried to log into the account with the wrong password more than 5 times. You will be able to attempt to log in again in another 15 minutes.

The person trying to log into your account had the following IP address: 212.143.129.219

Don't forget that the password is case sensitive. Forgotten your password? Use the link below:
http://boards.library.trutv.com//login.php?do=lostpw (http://boards.library.trutv.com/login.php?do=lostpw)

All the best,
Crime Library Message Boards


I had that same email (with the same IP address) in my inbox this morning.


I am permanently logged in to CL on my pc.

I think it's just some joker trying to mess with people, and guessing at passwords unsuccessfully.

[One2Snoop]

It appears the hacker is still actively busy breaking into peoples accounts. If you will look at the "nic" doosmom44 in the current users list on the main index page it shows her as logged in yet on her profile it says - Last activity 10-27-2006, when it should say Last activity Today at such and such a time.

http://boards.crimelibrary.com/member.php?u=98759

View Profile: doosmom44
doosmom44
Member
Last Activity: 10-27-2006 01:08 PM

[the breeze]

Go :punch: yourself.


Odd to call me "paranoid" when posters are receiving odd e-mails, like the one I just received telling me my access to an online bank was denied. (A bank in another country where I have no account.)


And odd to be asking other posters to send you e-mails. If you're planning to "report it to Deepwater", whoever that may be, why not ask him/her the simple question: Why don't the "coldwaters" post HERE, explaining what is going on at insessions?


I do not know you but i love this post:beer: I think Coldwater has goten into some hot water:eek:

[grneyes]

If whoever is in charge of these boards would block the Ip it might take care of a lot of this crap that is going on. Someone, whoever is actually responsible, needs to do something.