The black museum

[judi25uk]

did anyone used to listen to this radio show with orsen welles? it came on radio 4 in the uk in the 1990's (im not sure whether it was broadcast anywhere else ive read somewhere that it was called 'whitehall 1212) when i was at school and it scared me to death because it had this screechy music at the start and over-dramatic music but it was great-anyone remember it? for anyone that doesnt know what it was it was a crime radio show based on Scotland yard's museum of memorabilia connected with crime, for example a woman's shoe, or a jack hammer. Each episode orsen welles would narrate the dramatisation of the story surrouning that particular piece and how it allowed the police to catch the killer etc. If im not mistaken i think you can visit the museum.

[SaraSidle]

I do not remember it.

[judi25uk]

here is a link you can go on and stream an episode and see what i mean about the screechy beginning lol

http://www.archive.org/details/OTRR_Black_Museum_Singles

[Jayelles]

I have a video of the Black Museum which I got free with a serialised magazine called "Murder Casebook". I think that would have been 1980s/90s. I think I still have the magazines in a box in the attic. How awful! I used to be pretty curious about Jack the Ripper and I think that was why I started buying it. After a while I just needed to complete the set but there were about 100 parts to it. The set cost a fortune overall!

I don't like reading true crime now. I like mysteries but I don't like anything too graphic.

The one murder I'd like to find out more about though is one which may have taken place in Scotland in the early or mid 1900s. I recall reading about it once but I can't remember the name of the victim or any of the small details. The victim was a little girl - an only child and her parents really doted on her. I remember there being something about the mother maybe making her dancing costumes or frilly dresses or something like that. Anyway, they lived in a tenement building and the little girl went out to play in the close (I don't know what this is called in England - it's the shared hallway/stairway). When her mother was later looking for her, she couldn't find her and a search was mounted. Her body was found in a coal bunker I think or maybe it was the wash-house in the backyard. I think she'd been strangled. A neighbour was either suspected or charged. I don't remember the details. I think there was something about the neighbour hating the girl because she was spoiled or that the girl had been cheeky to the neighbour - something like that which could have been a motive.

If anyone out there is reading this and recognises the case I'm talking about - could you help me out? LOL

I'm saying it was Scotland, but it might not even have been Scotland. I just think it could be because of the tenement and bunker which make it sound Scottish!

[SaraSidle]

I have a video of the Black Museum which I got free with a serialised magazine called "Murder Casebook". I think that would have been 1980s/90s. I think I still have the magazines in a box in the attic. How awful! I used to be pretty curious about Jack the Ripper and I think that was why I started buying it. After a while I just needed to complete the set but there were about 100 parts to it. The set cost a fortune overall!

I don't like reading true crime now. I like mysteries but I don't like anything too graphic.

The one murder I'd like to find out more about though is one which may have taken place in Scotland in the early or mid 1900s. I recall reading about it once but I can't remember the name of the victim or any of the small details. The victim was a little girl - an only child and her parents really doted on her. I remember there being something about the mother maybe making her dancing costumes or frilly dresses or something like that. Anyway, they lived in a tenement building and the little girl went out to play in the close (I don't know what this is called in England - it's the shared hallway/stairway). When her mother was later looking for her, she couldn't find her and a search was mounted. Her body was found in a coal bunker I think or maybe it was the wash-house in the backyard. I think she'd been strangled. A neighbour was either suspected or charged. I don't remember the details. I think there was something about the neighbour hating the girl because she was spoiled or that the girl had been cheeky to the neighbour - something like that which could have been a motive.

If anyone out there is reading this and recognises the case I'm talking about - could you help me out? LOL

I'm saying it was Scotland, but it might not even have been Scotland. I just think it could be because of the tenement and bunker which make it sound Scottish!

nope Judi I do not remember the black museum still. Jayelles I never heard that story and it sounds so sad. I hate true crime involving children!!!!! IMO

[Evening2]

nope Judi I do not remember the black museum still. Jayelles I never heard that story and it sounds so sad. I hate true crime involving children!!!!! IMO

Sara, that crime sounds a lot like the JonBenet case in some ways. Could be the motive for having killed her too. Ya just never know. :(

[SaraSidle]

Sara, that crime sounds a lot like the JonBenet case in some ways. Could be the motive for having killed her too. Ya just never know. :(

It does Eve. For that matter there seems to be a lot of children getting killed by neighbors also.

[Jayelles]

That is precisely the reason I wanted to find information on it - because the motive for the neighbour killing her was hatred for the child and I think that's a feasible motive for the Jonbenet murder.

It was published in a Scottish History magazine which I had in my book shelf for a few years. Unfortunately, I had a clear out just shortly before I wanted to reference it again. I'm a bit of a hoarder so that was very annoying.

[SaraSidle]

That is precisely the reason I wanted to find information on it - because the motive for the neighbour killing her was hatred for the child and I think that's a feasible motive for the Jonbenet murder.

It was published in a Scottish History magazine which I had in my book shelf for a few years. Unfortunately, I had a clear out just shortly before I wanted to reference it again. I'm a bit of a hoarder so that was very annoying.

Oh no Jayelles. Maybe the book is in a library!!!

[Jayelles]

Oh no Jayelles. Maybe the book is in a library!!!

It wasn't a book. It was one of these magazines which comes out once a fortnight or once a month. I can't even remember what it was called - something like "Scotttish Memories". It's a nice magazine, it has a bit of Scottish history, a bit of genealogy - a real mish-mash of interesting topics. I did find the magazine's website when I was first hunting for it, and they do sell back issues, but I couldn't remember what issue it had been in or even when it might have been dated.

It wasn't a huge article, and it wasn't a case I'd ever heard of.

[SaraSidle]

It wasn't a book. It was one of these magazines which comes out once a fortnight or once a month. I can't even remember what it was called - something like "Scotttish Memories". It's a nice magazine, it has a bit of Scottish history, a bit of genealogy - a real mish-mash of interesting topics. I did find the magazine's website when I was first hunting for it, and they do sell back issues, but I couldn't remember what issue it had been in or even when it might have been dated.

It wasn't a huge article, and it wasn't a case I'd ever heard of.

Too bad. We also had another neighbor murder here and I do not remember what state but the victim was Jessica Lunsford 9 yrs old. Neighbor raped her and buried her alive. It happens every so often in the states. That is why I am glad that predators with a past have to be on a list for everyone to see here.

[Jayelles]

I found the website for "Scottish Memories" last night and I painstakingly waded through the contents of every one of the past issues since 1998 which are still available for purchase. I couldn't find the story I was looking for. However, I may have found the issue it was in as one of them felt familiar to me. There seems to be one man who may be responsible for the crime articles in this magazine so I am going to email him and ask him if he can recall the case I'm thinking of.

[lynn]

Really Interesting Jeyelles keep us informed:seeya:

[SaraSidle]

I found the website for "Scottish Memories" last night and I painstakingly waded through the contents of every one of the past issues since 1998 which are still available for purchase. I couldn't find the story I was looking for. However, I may have found the issue it was in as one of them felt familiar to me. There seems to be one man who may be responsible for the crime articles in this magazine so I am going to email him and ask him if he can recall the case I'm thinking of.

That would be so great Jayelles.

[Jayelles]

Hi Sarah. The case you refer to to it is the murder of 8 year old Helen Priestley by Mrs Donald in Aberdeen, Scotland on April 20, 1934. The motive has never been accurately stated but you put your own interpretation on it.

Bye

Thank you! That's the one! I did start to have stirring memory last night that it could have been Aberdeen and I started to type it, but then deleted it because I wasn't sure *enough* and didn't want to make a red herring.

You are brilliant! How did you figure it out?

[Jayelles]

The murder of Helen Priestly:-

Victim - 8 years old
Killer - female
staged sexual assault
body "hidden" in the victim's own "home*
Motive - unknown but possibly rage towards the child

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/special-reports/crimes-that-rocked-scotland/2007/10/19/bad-blood-and-the-vile-death-of-little-helen-86908-19978264/

[SaraSidle]

Hi Sarah. The case you refer to to it is the murder of 8 year old Helen Priestley by Mrs Donald in Aberdeen, Scotland on April 20, 1934. The motive has never been accurately stated but you put your own interpretation on it.

Bye

Thanks Joseph. Actually Jayelles was looking for this originally and then she peaked my interest talking about it. We both appreciate it very much. You must have a better memory than me LOL

[SaraSidle]

The murder of Helen Priestly:-

Victim - 8 years old
Killer - female
staged sexual assault
body "hidden" in the victim's own "home*
Motive - unknown but possibly rage towards the child

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/special-reports/crimes-that-rocked-scotland/2007/10/19/bad-blood-and-the-vile-death-of-little-helen-86908-19978264/

Jayelles that is so sick. Poor little girl. I think Jeannie should have received DP with no reprieve! THanks for the link

[Athena]

Jayelles that is so sick. Poor little girl. I think Jeannie should have received DP with no reprieve! THanks for the link

ITA.

More info; but here it says her body was found in a stairwell. The forensic evidence appears solid due to the "washed ash" and bacterial infection.


The 1934 murder of 8-year-old Helen Priestly in Aberdeen was notable for its forensic science evidence, involving Sir Sydney Smith. The missing girl had had been found dead in a stairwell, apparently the victim of a sexual attack, but the lack of sperm apparent at the scene, and the nature of the injuries led Police to doubt this. A sack, used to wrap the body, contained washed cinders, and a woman Jeannie Donald was the only woman in the tenement block who washed ash from the fire to dispose of it. Some stains at her flat were found to be of blood group O, the same as Helen Priestly, but the presence of a rare bacterial infection was found on Jeannie Donald's floor cloths, exactly matching samples from the victim, who suffered from an enlarged thymus, making her more prone to infections and to fainting. One theory was that having been rude, and then been grabbed by Jeannie Donald, the girl had fainted, and that Jeannie Donald had then panicked and thought that she had killed the girl. She had then tried to make the victim appear to have been the victim of a sexual attack.

http://www.historybytheyard.co.uk/dna.htm